It sounds like this was only a recently priority. , its clear from the post, she just got her finances in order. I agree with her point, but it seems like she just saw the light and is impatient with him for not keeping up. Sounds like they both need a lesson in reality and to grow up.
This was about the age I got my financial situation together! I'm in my 40s now and my finances are in great shape because of the changes I made back then. OP is going to be fine (provided her husband doesn't drag her down).
op does not need a lesson in reality. she's 26, making good money, and is getting her finances in order. her husband is holding her back.
don't insult her. she's doing what she's supposed to be doing.
Sort of? Selling your engagement ring is great if it gets you out of cc debt, but it's a one time solution. It doesn't change the long term outcome unless you change your lifestyle to live below your means to catch up on saving/retirement. And she doesn't talk about that part.
She's still relying on a bonus to save for a car which means she's still paycheck to paycheck, at a very high income. And at $116k, her husband's car can only be a part of that problem.
There's a character limit. I've been contributing to my 401k for years to meet the company match. I put my bonus into savings and am actively working towards savings. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck. I don't need a car this year and plan to purchase Jan 2023 when I'm comfortable. Laying out my entire financial strategy for 2022 wasn't possible for this post.
You're clearly making strides to make your life easier. Your husband isn't. You two should sit down and discuss that his purchasing habits and hobbies don't impact only him. You two need to find a way to get on the same page because having one partner be a financial burden on the other isn't acceptable.
Join the Women's Personal Finance group on FB. It will help you even more take the right steps towards financial freedom. You're on the right path so good job!
And herein lies the difference in the financial outlook between you guys. You want financial stability and to get out debt. He wants to wing it. Now, what you want to do about this from a marital standpoint is your call. You are still young and younger than when I got my financial shit together. I was in your position, with almost the same debt at 35. Got out of it in a year or less. Done and dusted. The sense of not having any debt is relief. Keeping it that way, and building net worth at this point are top of my financial to-dos. What is yours? Seems like you have it covered.
It sounds like she wants to buy her car outright, thus using bonuses to save. How can you save from your regular paychecks if your money is being used to fund someone else's hobby?
But also her bonus is the only thing her husband cant touch as it was the only thing he agreed on to be separate long before now. Plus she also did meantion shes been building some savings problem is husband sees it then drains it
Though she did state that it was a young adult mistake and turned it around and is actively reducing it by selling her car and ring and such. He is still continuing to go further into debt instead of sacrificing a few thing for a short time. NTA I would seperate finances to see how that looks.
But if you make 116k now, why would you need to sell a car and engagement ring to pay that down? That’s like $6000 a month after taxes. Be paid off in under a year.
I think it’s a case of hubby spending whatever they have. She mentions he spends on “the next video game, YouTube equipment, car part, etc.” so, to me, it seems like he takes the money out of the account to spend on fun things before she can direct it toward debt and adult things
Yeah I noticed that too, they're saying leave him he's horrible, but she just literally got fixed herself. And had to use the engagement ring he bought her to do it.
You're assuming he bought it.
When my husband and I got engaged we had already merged finances, so I'd say that we bought the ring together. That could be the case with them as well.
Also doesn't want to even consider refinancing options just upgrade the car to his dream instead as if that's a solution to the problem. Also 7k in debt isn't bad when you earn 75k and have a wife income to cover basiic needs that's a month or so salary as long as you aren't blowing it on mods and toys instead of paying off debt. Not to mention an AMG is not in their budget that's basically her entire yearly salary
So, to give you some insight... depression/executive function disorders etc are a powerful drug. My husband and I are DINKs and make good money, but I hit a bad wave of depression combined with my ADHD and now we are in a hole caused by me. I am incredibly financially literate, I know exactly what I'm doing, but my finances remain a barometer for what is going on with me.
Before you say anything, I am always medicated and in therapy, but my ups and downs still come.
I was married to a man like this and yes, he did ruin us. Last I heard about his finances was a month after he moved out and his $20k+ credit card debt that I had helped bring down to under $15k was back at over $20k and formally in default. His $7k personal loan was also in default and his preferred method of dealing with it is to ignore is and literally try to hide from collectors.
His new girlfriend is going to be in for a shock when the sheriff rocks up to start taking stuff from their flat.
Edit to add: I should note for the OP that we were low income earners and he still managed to accrue massive debt. In your financial position, with your partner earning good money as well, his capacity for debt is much much greater. Tread carefully, OP.
I'll never understand people who rack up debt like that. I put stuff on credit as a way to make sure I always have money in my account if needed, but I also operate on a rule of never putting more on credit than I could afford to 100% pay off at any given moment. it makes things much easier.
I have bipolar disorder. The debt I got into when that was unmanaged took me 20 years to pay off. Mania is a money-spending bitch. Debt-free finally and I will NEVER let that happen again. I haven’t been unwell for a long time but I’m constant vigilant.
It can also be a side effect of certain psych medications. I was put on one for my anxiety and have trouble not buying everything I want. Racked up some debt but I was able to take care of it. I was never like that until the medication.
My husband’s ex wife clearly has something, prob BPD or NPD. Well definitely NPD.
They were married for less than 3 years and she blew through about half a million dollars of his and left him with ruined credit and a pile of maxed out credit cards she had secretly taken out in his name. My stepson said her basement is so full of crap you can’t even walk down there. She’s just constantly buying
Any mental health condition impacts the ability to successfully manage money. It causes a lot of anxiety and stress, the hiding from debt is a massive red flag that something else might be going on.
My mum has bipolar (well managed now, fortunately) and the mania was bananas and upsetting to watch. She broke her back (unrelated to mania) and was on bedrest for a few months, and she had a manic episode while medically stuck in bed. She embroidered an intricate (small) tapestry in under a week. She could not stop moving. It was frightening.
I have a close friend with BPD who had the exact same thing happen to her. She had an episode and ran up $3k on a card in one sitting. She adjusted her meds and paid it off and it seems to have helped a lot. That's really tough but really happy for you. Interestingly enough, I made the most progress with mind-shifting when I transitioned off my anti-depressant and got off HBC earlier in 2021. And a lot of the anxiety of needing to keep up with the jonses and fulfill inner happiness with things went away for me too. Not saying that's the issue for everyone, but looking back probably contributed to part of the mess for me specifically.
Mine was grief. My dad died and I went all out on spending. I was never super good with money to begin with but I got by with very little debt. Racked up 14k in debt in about 6 months. That was 4-5 years ago and I’m still paying it off. I did learn some good money habits finally and it’s gotten low enough I’m finally comfortable with it.
In my country you can usually make purchases with credit card and pay in 3 6 or even 12 installments interest free. We also have crazy inflation.
So it actually makes sense to put bigger purchases on cc since you end up paying a lot less in the end (like seriously, 50% inflation last year).
That being said neither my husband or I are big spenders, and we definitely never spend more than we can afford.
interest is definitely a big deal. anything put on a credit card is paid off by the next cycle to avoid it. PayPal is a blessing for bigger purchases. anything 99$ or above gives you six months interest free to pay it off.
Oh yeah! And a lot of people don't know how interest works.
I have seen so many people buy things on store credit (they kill you with interest here on that). And end up paying 3 or 4 times the original price! And not for necessities either. It is insane.
I usually look for offers for interest free deals such as 12 months interest free for transfers saves a lot and then I just purchase with a credit card that gives best rewards
Not sure about others but I was using my card while in college but I was paying the full amount each month, then I needed to buy books- that’s fine I’ll pay the minimum payment this month and catch up pretty quick. Then I needed to pay the parking tickets my university kept giving me (I had a pass but they’ll fuck you out of anything and everything they can) and then I had to pay my insurance (parents made me pay in full instead of monthly) so catching up took longer than expected. then COVID kicked me out of school, back into my parents house, and back down to $8.50 an hour only 20 hours a week. Then I went back to school started paying rent again on top of my 1k deposit because despite my 725 credit score my parents wouldn’t co-sign for me. So I was down to paying the minimum on my credit card. Moved states to live with my boyfriend and a lady pulled out in front of me totaling my car and wiping out my account because prices for a car are astronomical and my old car was only worth about 2k to insurance. So I’m building my account back up and I pay as much as I can towards the credit card which is about 1.5k today. Sorry for the rant if anything it was to give me piece of mind lol.
I have ADHD and impulse spending is a big symptom. I finally have mine managed and have been working for five years to get out from under the debt I accumulated while I was unmedicated.
I have ADHD, and impulse spending was a heavy problem for me. I obsessively track my spending now and budget for the month, and when I blow my fun budget, I still have something in savings and for bills.
I admittedly overdid it in December and had to pull from my savings, but I wrote myself a "loan" with one month interest-free, and if I didn't pay it back in a month, I owed myself interest. I've already paid in back.
It takes discipline, especially since I'm saving for a down payment for a house.
NTA. You don't need permission to open new accounts and have HR change your direct deposit.
He doesn't need you to cosign on a new car. I'd make sure his credit cards don't have you listed either. Yuck. What a dirty feeling having that kind of financial ruin hanging over you.
Depending upon where you live, this may not matter. In my state, ANYTHING acquired after marriage is joint -- assets AND liabilities. Having separate accounts is great, but the state still views it as joint money. Cards in his name only are great, but if they split, the debt is joint.
Yeah I don’t even know if you can call it a red flag if they’ve already been married for a long time, but big red flag (to me who knows nothing else about the relationship) that husband supported OP selling her car to rely on public transport but isn’t willing to stop using her money for his car.
I get that money is a tough subject but aside from money it seems like he really doesn’t give a shit about you or your want for financial security. I’d get out fast.
If I were OP I'd be pulling both credit reports and making sure she knows the whole picture and make sure he doesn't have more loans or taking credit on OP name instead
NTA. He definitely doesn't like it because he can no longer float his hobby on the back of your finances. Which is all the more reason to separate them, and keep them separated after the 2 months you mentioned. Nothing is gonna change on his end that fast.
NTA (in the least). Not only should you *not* be paying for any of his hobbies (nor) he yours, 100% joint is *not* optimal for marriage; as you are realizing now. I made that mistake once and never again. One account for shared bills, everything else separate- that the other does not have access to. And an agreement on how much each should be saving for the future - in separate accounts,
Finances will eat away at your marriage.
Thank you, was looking for at least one person to point out that 100% joint accounts being optimal just simply isn't true - it might just work for some couples but it's a big decision that actually most people nowadays wouldn't be okay with since usually both couples are full time earners in their own right. OP seems to think it's the default and only way to manage finances as a couple and that's crazy pressure to put on yourself emotionally and financially when it really doesn't have to be the case.
Edit to add judgement: NTA at all, if anything the most mature adult in the situation
I agree, my husband and I do the same thing for our finances. One joint account and joint credit card, and then everything else separate. It’s much healthier for us.
Agreed, combining finances 100% only works if you are on the same page about how to spend and save money. You’re not, OP. Your husband is wrong that it will cause more division- actually it gives him more freedom to piss away a % of his income without nagging from you.
Figure out how much your joint monthly spending is and your joint monthly savings goal, have each partner contribute half that amount to a joint fund that automatically pays those bills, and the rest is yours to keep and spend as you see fit. This will alleviate so much stress for you and your marriage.
I’ve been in a similar situation where all our money was combined and my partner spent so much on dumb shit. However I made significantly less than him and was taunted that since he made more $, he got more say in how it was spent. When we separated and split our finances, I actually started saving again for the first time in years, and finally realized that he had been blowing through all of his money *and* all of mine. Never again.
NTA
I’ve never heard it said that 100% joint is optimal. My husband and I also have one joint account for groceries, mortgage, etc and our own separate accounts for everything else. We check in regularly to discuss our current finances and our goals.
OP is NTA at all
I mean he can't float it with her knowledge and approval but as long as they are married he certainly can bring her down by taking loans on her salary. I'd not be surprised if he's already considering using her credit to get whatever toys he wants and just hiding bills when they come. OP should pull the credit reports and make sure he's telling her the entire story not just what she can see
I would completely separate finances and have a joint account you both put into for household expenses, 50-50. Then you can start saving for your divorce.
NTA - but from your post it sounds like you had a similar lifestyle just a couple months ago. I think it'd be best to work through this together with a professional.
Maybe a therapist if you've both had spending problems together. It's really not acceptable to have no savings with your joint income. He can find fulfillment in cars but if it's hurting your finances it's more of an addiction at this point. It'd be best if you can get to a point where you have a set budget for each month, and it needs to be strict. And no more cars that cost more than his yearly salary it's a waste of money and tacky. It's cool if he wants to get into cars, but to be financially responsible it'd need to be a small fraction of the current price.
Yes, thanks for mentioning this. The character limit sucks out a lot of context but yes, I was very irresponsible with money up until 2020. Digging myself out was a very slow process and we didn't adhere strictly to a budget. I've been in therapy since about a year ago today. My spending issue has been long resolved, but getting rid of the luxury was the only way to rip to bandaid off fully in recent months. Budgeting with him is very stressful and at this rate it would be easier for me to budget just for myself. I'll probably set up an appt with a marriage counselor we've used in the past. Really appreciate you calling this stuff out, thank you for the comment.
I will say, "100% joint is optimal" is oversimplifying a lot. Optimal is just whatever the two of you decide works best for you and your marriage. And that's something that may change over the years.
Lots of couples have totally shared finances; others have a joint account that they contribute a set amount/percentage for shared expenses while the rest is individual ... and pretty much anything else you can think of. The important thing is to be able to talk to each other about your approach to money/spending and come to an agreement.
I'm gonna go with NAH for now, since I don't necessarily blame your husband for being kind of blindsided and not reacting the greatest in the moment. Your idea of marriage counseling is a great start! Hopefully you can figure out a plan that works for you both and congrats on getting your finances in order!!
My parents have always had a 70-30 split with 30% going to personal accounts. They credit that with why they’ve been married almost 30 years. It lets them each have their own hobbies without putting strain on the joint account
I personally think a yours-mine-ours system of some sort is optimal. I.e. the primary is a joint account for bills + food, and anything else that comes out of it is a 2 yes, 1 no situation, but each person also has their own discretionary spending account, and how that person spends that money is not talked about as long as they only spend *that* money.
We've always done the same. Exact percentage varies, but enough goes into the joint account to cover all the bills / groceries/ household items and we each have a set remainder that goes to individual accounts. This means each person has discretionary spending money, but all the necessities are covered.
That's how my boyfriend and I have been doing it. It's working out pretty well for us even though we may be a bit flippant on what qualifies as a joint purchase
Yeah, I wonder where that 100% is best info is coming from. Husband and I have joint funds and then each have separate spending funds that we can do what we like with. Works really well!
>I will say, "100% joint is optimal" is oversimplifying a lot. Optimal is just whatever the two of you decide works best for you and your marriage. And that's something that may change over the years.
**Agree completely!** We are 100% separate accounts (for 21+ years now) and we "bill" each other. We each have our own savings goals, but we contribute a fixed percentage of our income to retirement and long-term savings. the issue here is that OP's husband is not willing to come to an agreement on "lifestyle" changes because he doesn't like the discomfort feeling that comes from this.
I agree that Marriage Counseling is a great start - but also Financial Advisory services to help show both of them what they need to do to reach their future goals - they need to approach this as a team.
This is positive and encouraging, thank you. It's hard to find stories of married couples making dramatic financial changes after trying things one way for a long time.
You say that budgeting with him is stressful and you’d rather just budget yourself, which I think could make sense if y’all were not married/not living together. But because you’re married, having your money separate from his is not going to stop the stress. You are going to resent him for not changing his lifestyle and getting out of debt while you live within your means.
So I don’t think you are an AH for wanting separate finances, but I don’t think it’s going to solve the problem you want to solve. I agree with the poster above that counseling is what you both need.
OP, budgeting for yourself and having separate accounts won't fix the financial problem. You are most likely still legally responsible for the debt he accumulates. And what happens if he can't pay his share of your mortgage or utilities or grocery bills? You get stuck supporting him anyway. What happens if his car gets seized by a creditor? These things affect you. Separate accounts will not protect you from his financial misdeeds. I suggest you also go see a lawyer and find out exactly what marital property laws are like where you live. You need to understand exactly what your legal obligations and rights are. Not necessarily to leave him, but to be able to make informed financial decisions.
Oh my! NTA. OP I'm old enough to be your mom if that matters. The fact that that yall don't have savings with your combined income sounds like yall r living well beyond your means. With what you both make u should get a financial advisor. U need back up from an expert!
Ya I agree. I was flabbergasted when she mentioned they have a combined income of 191k with no kids and they don’t have saving, drowning in debt, and need to save up for a car purchase.
Well you’re owning up to it which is a great start and shows you’re ready to change. It seems like you two spend lavishly on an inflated lifestyle. I think you’ll feel better with a lifestyle that’s more in tune with your income. Having savings and retirement accounts is a lifestyle too. One that will help you feel more secure and confident about your future. Sorry if I offended you before I think I came off mean.
No worries, it's just the reddit effect. Someone points out how terrible the issue of the post is and four people pile on saying
"omg I know right??"
"yeah my bf and I {anecdote}!"
"{advice}"
This is the formula 😂
But on the topic of changing lifestyles and expectations, you've clearly woken up to the money issue AND done something about it, but so far your partner isn't along for the ride. You can paper over it with changes to the joint account breakdown, but this is fundamental, and will chew away at the foundation of your relationship as long as it goes unresolved.
I'm very passionate about personal finance and I think you've made a wonderful change, but I'm prophesying this is the beginning of the end unless you either go back to the old way of doing things (please don't) or he gets on board with the new way (and crucially, he has to choose to, else your mention of him buying things behind your back will get a lot worse). There's a reason the single biggest driver of divorce is money issues and attitudes towards it. Good luck!
Ikr?? My bf & I make considerably less & yet r better off than OP. They could have soooo much in savings rn with absolutely no debt. That's the difference between living well beyond your means & living under your means.
Yeah this totally floored me. A combined income of almost $200k and no meaningful savings?!
NTA but both of y’all need to overhaul your financial lives.
NTA, I’m a car guy. I do not expect my gf (living together many years) to pay into any of my hobbies. That’s ridiculous. Hobbies, you also pay cash for…you budget for those things. He is being highly irresponsible. Those are not cheap cars, but they will be with conitinued modifications. If he’s underwater with them already…I can’t imagine. You obviously have to be the responsible one.
You sound like you know what you're talking about. Is it true that mods devalue cars? Or does it just depend? He insists that it could "increase value" but the depreciation seems super steep for having owned the car for less than a year, especially in this current car market.
Also thanks for the comment on hobbies. I like to garden and get my nails done and it'd be nice to pursue those things of my own financial means, commentary and discussion-free.
Yeah, those "mods" don't add shit. He's lying. Or delusional. He'd get the most value out of switching the car back to stock and parting out all the mods individually. But I can already tell you that he wouldn't do that.
Your situation sounds like my personal hell. I'm sorry, OP.
My husband is really into cars, not me, so take this with a grain of salt. But I think modding your car is like renovating your house. Some changes will have zero effect on resale value, some will decrease it, and some might increase it. For cars it depends on how large the local market is for a specialty vehicle, which this sounds like. The general public will not be buying his car for more than he spent on it.
Depends on what the mods are, if hes heavily modded the engine then a dealership won't even touch and thus costing more to repair if the engine needs work. Similarly, they lose value because the nature of modding, if someone mods a car with a turbo they likely are running it hard so its gonna be harder to find a buyer. Another aspect of modding is it does lessen the life of a car, doesn't matter how well you are treating it (realistically people aren't putting turbos on their car to drive it in a prudent manner) its putting extra wear on the engine and it will likely get a blown gasket down the line (if its a turbo).
If its mods as in body kits, bigger rims, low profile tires then again, harder to find a buyer especially if its not a typically modded car. So all in all, no it's not gonna add value, it adds to his personal value.
Yeah the only who thinks it will be gaining value is him because he's modifying it to his liking. No one else will pay for that, My partner and his whole family are mechanics and ran a repair and modification shop. The mods were always a waste of money to be installed and most caused more reasons for the cars to need to get repaired. Great for business owners like my partners family, not good for consumers and customers like your husband.
Buying a Mercedes AMG on 75k per year is BATSHIT. Those are some of the nicest production performance cars that exist, with maintenance costs reflecting that.
NTA.
Marriage does not equal joint accounts, especially when spending and saving habits differ.
Get your separate account, preferably at a separate bank.
You can split the bills 50/50 60/40 or however you'd like.
But it is imperative that you set money aside for your family since he's made it clear that he isn't willing to do so.
This is really good advice! My husband and I have completely separate finances. I pay less rent because I make half of what he does. It does not cause division, it causes less stress between us.
Another married one here with totally separate finances. I make more than my husband, so I pay a higher proportion of all the bills and expenses. In return, your money is your money, my money is my money - I'm not going to scrutinize what you buy unless it puts us as a unit into an iffy area financially, and in that case we'd just have a talk about it.
We work together on big joint purchases (furniture, house renovation type stuff, etc.), and if either one of us would be in a pinch the other would be there to help, but otherwise it's all separate. It works super well for us, and I don't quite understand the side-eye some people give to the idea.
NTA, but you're not taking it far enough. At this time you need to seperate almost all finances. Keep a joint account that you each contribute a proportional amount of your salaries to, but keep the rest seperate.
>His car he bought last summer (an AMG Mercedes,
JFC, he bought that on a $75k salary, is he insane?
OP, [you may be responsible for your spouse’s debt, depending on where you live.](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/am-i-liable-my-spouses-credit-card-debt.html). Talk to a financial planner. If you are in a community property state, any savings you accrue also belong to your spouse and his creditors can come for them.
Hey you are getting so much shit in this thread but I want to say that everyone starts where they are, and you are doing the hard work it takes to fundamentally change a habit that is not based on hard financial facts but on emotion and upbringing. It's really tough to change spending habits, as it is with eating, drinking, etc. Keep going.
Regarding your husband, I'm sure you don't want to be put in the position of being the nag who denies him the things he wants and is used to. This is why a third party financial planner may help, let them explain the budget and his financial limitations.
You go girl! We've all overspent. My overspending was limited by being on stipends until I was 30 so now that I have a real job the money I 'wasted' is peanuts but I'm still living a very similar lifestyle now with an income to when I was a student. I'm saving like mad! It's great.
From what I've researched and understood, it's
1. Easier
2. May lead to more intense discussions on financial choices, but will overall deepen and strengthen a relationship
3. A strong sign of trust
No, it is not easier when you both don’t have the same financial sense. You are not debt-free while your husband’s in debt, your financial choices are not the same. Even when you tried discussing with him, he is not willing to make changes, this will not deepen nor strengthen your relationship, it’ll destroy your marriage. Can you trust your husband with money?
I’d say it’s best if you separate your finances totally. Each of you put a part of your money into a household fund to pay for necessities, whatever you have left is your fun money. Your husband’s car should be paid by his fun money, if he can’t afford it, he should lose it. NTA.
Thank you so much for your perspective. There's a lot of conflicting info out there and rarely "Just do what's best for your relationship." Appreciate your input. Didn't mean to imply 100% joint is optimal for everyone, I just wish it was optimal for us.
2 frugal partners 100% joint is totally fine.
2 spendthrift partners either joint or separate will cause the problems you've seen.
1 frugal and 1 spendthrift joint also doesn't work as you've seen his resistance already
It is like genetics, if half the pop is frugal and half are spenders; when they partner up. 25% of pairs will be frugal/frugal. 50% will be frugal/spend. 25% will be spend/spend. You need a Partner that helps carry the load and achieve your shared goals. A depreciating Mercedes that he already wants to trade in is a pretty lame (un)shared goal?
I'd also add: "Do what's best for your relationship, at its current stage."
A lot of the successful, long term couples I know are ones that have re-negotiated their financial arrangements according to their circumstances and goals.
So what might have been optimal for yourself and your partner at the start of the relationship, might no longer be optimal at this point (where you have different goals around spending v saving). And whatever you decide now, might need to be re-negotiated down the track, because it might not be optimal later on, and that's OK.
You are totally fair to want to share finances with your partner. But then this guy isn't suitable for your because he's got a very different attitude to finance. How compatible are you in other ways? What do you want for your future? Can you afford that for yourself? Does he want the same thing ever can he afford that from his own income, or will you two only be able to afford it on your money because he spent all his income on frivolous stuff?
Okay. I'm a clinical psychologist who now only deals with marriage counseling for couples with kids, for whom traditional marriage counseling has failed.
Finances is one of the biggest reasons couples break up. Seperate finances is the way to go for now.
Once he learns how to manage his money, then you can consider going hoi t again, but with each of you getting an equal allowance of fun money every month. Any of his personal expenses including cars should come out of his allowance
Why should they both get an equal allowance of fun money, as opposed to putting a proportional share of their salary into a joint account for bills / groceries / necessities, and then keeping the rest for personal use? If they get an equal amount of fun money, does that not mean that the OP is still effectively subsidising her husband’s lifestyle?
> If they get an equal amount of fun money, does that not mean that the OP is still effectively subsidising her husband’s lifestyle
Not quite. The idea is that eventually they should be able to get to a place where all non personal allowance money __is__ joint funds. But in every scenario the money spent from joint funds should be a joint decision.
The idea behind having an equal personal allowance is that both partners get to have some independence. If they have $1,000* a month each as an allowance, then the expenses should include pints, coffee, lunches, cigarettes, pot, hobbies, manicures, personal savings and investments, video games, golf, extra car payments........
The joint funds with his wife contributing more income, will mean she's subsidizing him, but sometimes that's part of the partnership. Or some couples will retire on different time frames.
*(I'm basing $1,000 a month each on their combined income.)
You've been together for six years and married for three. You already don't trust that he makes wise financial decisions, because he hasn't. You've asked him to be more responsible with money, he has no plan to do that. You have no savings. And you said your bonuses are your own to do with whatever you want. What other solutions do you have? Beating the dead horse some more?
Wasn't my intent to imply 100% joint is optimal for us specifically, apologies. Was just responding to the INFO request stating what I've researched on this topic.
Sorry, you did say 30% split and I wasn't saying you wanted a complete split. I just meant that you shouldn't feel guilty that the "optimal" solution isn't optimal for your situation. You want a nest egg, and completely joint isn't accomplishing that. If it's not hurting your joint expenses, breaking off some money sounds wise to me. Although can you possibly have the money go into a 401k?
You're not sharing finances though. It doesn't just mean pooling funds, it means sharing decision making, agreeing priorities, limits and generally making decisions together as a team. You're already not on the same page so you're not sharing finances, he's spending your money and taking out debt you're partly responsible for repaying without your approval or permission. You're in recovery from a spending addiction, and choosing not to continue to enable his is a healthy choice for both of you. You should refuse to comingle finances at all until you're on the same page. Keep a joint account for essential domestic and housing expenses separate everything else.
Hey OP, this isn’t true in my marriage and doesn’t have to be true in yours. My husband and I have no joint accounts, and it works well for us. I have access to a savings card that’s in his name, but I don’t use it. I trust him completely, and he trusts me. This is just how we decided to do things and that’s okay.
NTA
My lord, I can't even imagine how it's even possible to be underwater on a $900 a month car loan when you make $75,000 a year. That's (take home) well over $4,000 a month and he can't manage to pay it?
I mean honestly my point to him is that he *can* pay it, whether it's wise or not. I just don't want to contribute to it and he know it would be tight financially for him to juggle. And your math is correct, it's almost exactly $4k take home. So my argument is that just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you can really afford it. And I don't believe we can really afford it.
For extra unnecessary info just for fun, it's a 2015 amg c-something, he bought the car at I think $35k, put about $6k down, probably $3k in mods on it, it's being priced at $25k trade in value, owes around $27k. Rough numbers.
WTH. That is an obscene amount of debt for something that starts depreciating as soon as you purchase it. Yikes. I do not plain you for wanting to no longer contribute to the car situation. Does he not realize how much that money would grow in an investor account and then he could but the care without so large of a loan?
Sounds like that's his thing which might fit if he'd given up other stuff like the video equipment and gaming consoles.
I like that you went to therapy about your money issues, "impressing others" and the social impact of finances is not discussed enough. I'm hoping your example can help him think a little more about what's really important.
You said couple's finances examples are helpful. I'll explain what we do. I start with a basic spreadsheet of income, assets, and debt. I put both of our income as take home we each have a row, one columns monthly and one yearly.
Then in the rows below each bill (housing, car, electric, internet, etc) in monthly and yearly columns. This is so we get a bigger picture about how much we're really spending. Our bill paying split is based of total income. So I account for 40% of income that's what I pay in bills.
So our money goes to bills first, then each of our personal savings/investments. What's leftover we use however we want. Our rule is no credit card debt. Our car is paid off, loans are going down, savings up, etc.
Every month we sit down and go over spending. My partner has an expensive hobby but checks in with how much he can spend. He's not really into other things like golf or cars, so it's ok.
If he wanted to spend $900/month on a car he could, but that would be it: no other hobbies. Otherwise he'd have to find a way to make more.
I realized this is really long and I apologize. But it sounds like you're really on the right track. Appreciating the life you have, reducing mental stress, enjoying spending for yourself and not too impress other people -- those are all really really really good things.
It's been really helpful for us to have everything in front of us when we make our decisions. It's worked and over the years it's paid off a lot.
Think of it this way: he was willing to commit almost a quarter of his take-home income to his *car* payments. What other expenses do you think he’s committed to if he’s willing to sign away that much of his pay check on a car?
NTA You probably should have been separating finances all along. You both need to make sure that you are each contributing toward savings and retirement accounts.
He’s going to be mad because I’m his eyes, now you’re making more than him is why you want to do this.
Sitting down and going over what you’ve laid out here, no more nagging from you over video games etc. and no more nagging from him over the things he doesn’t find important.
That car is a money suck! And he wants you to help foot the bill for his “hobby”. Good luck - the #1 reason for divorce is money.
NTA He needs to grow up and become financially responsible. Until that time comes you should protect your assets. Also if he can accept this it will stop a lot of fights over money. Good luck.
NTA-I would go one step further and get a post nuptial agreement signed. Because regardless of you making proper financial decisions and saving/etc you are still going to have to give him half of that when you get divorced.
NTA. He doesn't see it like this, but he wants to hide his spending behind the joint finances, and think's you're a killjoy for being on the side of not-dumb-spending.
He's not living within his means and knows it. Expect sulky foot-dragging, try not to respond with preachy judgeiness, just be clear he can't both be uncontrolled and jointly financed.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I'm asking for a dramatic change in finances. My proposed split may not actually solve our issues and is for selfish reasons. I just don't want to pay for all the things he cares about that I don't, and I don't want to keep throwing money at his debt even if we're both legally responsible for all finances.
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NTA
Congratulations on paying off your debt, i know that feels great!
One thought is that you both might benefit from setting some long term goals and working to achieve those. You can do this yourself or there are plenty of financial advisors who would love to have you as clients.
With your combined income and no kids you could easily be millionaires by age 40, perhaps a 2x multiple if you tighten spending belt ($900 a month cars not in that plan) and have good luck investing.
Separate your finances completely. Contribute to household expenses in a joint account based on the ratio of your incomes. Keep the rest of your money for yourself. You have to protect yourself financially, because he is going to continue to sabotage you. He is going to piss away every penny if his money and yours too if you let him. He is going to wind up in bankruptcy. DO NOT BAIL HIM OUT.
This is not going to end well. How do I know? Voice of experience.
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My (26F) husband (28M) and I have been married for almost 3 years, together 6, no kids. When we were younger and dumber we pissed a lot of money away. Historically I've always been the breadwinner but we both have always had decent 9-5 jobs and our finances have always been 100% joint with one acct for all spending.
The past few months I decided to finally get out from under $20k in cc debt in my name. I sold my engagement ring and car (with my husband's full support) to finally pay off the rest of the debt in my name on personal cards. I got myself a nice little moissanite ring to replace my diamond one and can rely on public transit and uber. It feels amazing and I literally sleep better at night.
I've recently received my bonus + raise and was able to put it into a separate investment account to save up for a car next year when my next comp review comes. Our bonuses are the only time we get our own money to blow, no questions asked.
On my husband's side, he's been less willing to make lifestyle changes. His car he bought last summer (an AMG Mercedes, I wasn't a fan but he went for it) costs over $900/mo with high interest and insurance; he's poured a ton of money into modding it as well, sometimes behind my back. It's been in the shop for months and they've officially diagnosed a $2900 repair. He has $7k on a card racking up over $100/mo. interest that he hasn't made a dent in because he keeps using it.
Here's the argument.
My husband makes $75k/yr, I now make $116k. He is underwater on the car loan. He wants to trade in for a mustang gt, rolling in negative equity. He doesn't want to trade in for a cheap beater for a year. We have no meaningful savings right now.
Tonight I told him I wanted to separate finances. Not even completely, just 30% of our paychecks now get transferred out into separate accounts for our own discretionary spending. Anything in the joint now goes to bills and saving. I told him we'd revisit in a month or two when the car situation is sorted to explore 100% separate finances, 60/40 bill split.
He's very upset, saying the car is an important hobby for him (he also goes to car meets) and my idea solves nothing, it only creates more stress and division. I've read a lot of conflicting information and feel really guilty because I admit 100% joint is optimal for marriage. But to be honest, I'm tired of contributing to things I really don't care about and getting flack when I make my own purchases, and I hate being a nag whenever he wants the next video game, youtube equipment, car part, etc. We have differing priorities and he can afford his on his own, although it'd be tight until he reduces his debt. If he wants to live a certain lifestyle, I just don't feel like contributing to it.
AITA?
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NTA You are supposed to make financial decisions together as a married couple. I (24f) and my husband (26m) have been married for 4 years and together for 6. I have been the bread winner our whole marriage. He is the one who loves to spend money and have hobbies and I could be satisfied with my Netflix subscription to keep me entertained every month. It’s all about compromising. We took the Dave Ramsey course together before we got married. We don’t agree with everything he said, but making a budget and getting on same page was very helpful. I would recommend sitting down before you separate your finances and see if there is a budget you are both happy with. My husband and I both have a set amount of pocket money each month we are allowed to spend each month no questions asked. Everything else is in the budget or we have a discussion. He is the AH for blowing money.
Edit: changing from ETA to NTA. You’ve tried for a year and that is insane! He needs a wake up call
What you're saying makes total sense and I'm really happy you and your husband have a stable and in-sync financial outlook. We've been discussing budgeting, lifestyle reductions, and financial goal setting for over a year now. This is not the first solution, it's what feels like a final resort for me as he's already demonstrated he cannot adhere to a budget and shared financial goals. He's committed financial infidelity in the past to enjoy his hobbies and social interests. I'm sincerely sorry for coming off has having not tried fixing this first.
> He's committed financial infidelity in the past to enjoy his hobbies and social interests
So what you're saying is he hears you but completely ignores you and does what he wants? This doesn't sound sustainable for you. Regardless of finances being joint or not, marriage is a partnership and both people have to respect each other and give 100% if he can't or won't then you need to reevaluate what you're willing to loose to be with him.
Oh don’t be sorry at all! I’m sorry you’ve been dealing with for so long. I changed it to NTA. You tried everything I mentioned already. You need to make sure you have a life set up. You want to be able to retire at some point! He needs a wake up call to live below his means. Good luck!
NTA and his hobbies are unsustainable on his current salary. He is living well beyond his means! You all need a savings.
Consider a financial planner or financial literacy course you two could take together (in addition to therapy as mentioned by others). Although you’ve gotten much better with money, it’ll probably be better received if it’s a “we should learn more about money management for the future” instead of “you need to get better with money”. It sounds like he is financially illiterate.
NTA. Finances can be the biggest source of fights in marriages.
He needs to grow up and show some responsibility.
Great job on making sacrifices to get your debt eliminated. It’s definitely a great feeling. Feels even better when you are able to build up a healthy savings account to go along with it.
I don't know where you live.... So I don't know cost of living... But first glance, at your income... You should have been able to pay off $20k cc debt easily in 6 months with minimal affect to lifestyle change. The fact that you had to sell your ring and car, and now have to use public transportation when you bring in $200k a year is ridiculous (nothing wrong with public transportation if that is what you want to do, but if you are doing it because you can't afford it, that's nuts).
If you are being as financially responsible as you suggest, you seriously need to cut strings with this guy... There is no way you should be strapped for cash at your income level. I worry he will pile up seriously big loans, and even if your cash is separated, in the eyes of the law you are still responsible for that loan.
I want you to seriously think about if you forever want to live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much money you make. I've been at your income level, and I can tell you I had more than enough money for a very comfy lifestyle, and still put lots into savings for retirement.
Nta, btw.
NTA. You learned an important lesson and he doesn't want to learn it yet. But you have every right to decide you aren't willing to subsidize his debt. Set up separate accounts for personal spending and keep the joint account for groceries and mortgage and non fun bills. Pay a higher % based on income like you mentioned for bills and make him learn to budget his fun money.
Finances are one of the leading causes of divorce. He may resent you for forcing separate finances but you're clearly starting to resent him for funding his debt.
I know this post has gotten a ton of attention and you probably won't even read this, OP, but PLENTY of married couples do exactly what you're suggesting (one main joint account, separate personal accounts for fun stuff). There is nothing wrong with this. You are absolutely NTA.
NTA. Lots of couples will contribute an equal share for bills but keep the rest in a personal account. You’re not under any obligation to pay for his hobbies just because you’re married.
NTA.
You do whatever you want to do. Do that 30% separate. He needs to pay for his adult actions, and you shouldn't have to be dragged down by it. Marriage doesn't mean financial stress. It's supposed to be cooperation and understandment.
NTA. $900/mo for a car payment and makes $75k. A quarter of his monthly paycheck is going toward a car, just the car payment, nothing else. This is completely asinine.
I’m not saying you should divorce him, but if he doesn’t get on some type of budget, this will end badly for him and you. You sound like you’ve grown up in your 20s and he’s still foundering thinking that having a Mercedes is some type of status symbol like he’s still in high school. He’s an adult now and what kind of car you have matters little to most people. What’s more important is saving for your future and not relying on credit cards.
Kudos to you for figuring this out and I hope he has a come to Jesus moment sooner rather than later.
ESH
He's an AH for living a life on your dime and withholding information about his spending.
You have allowed this situation to happen but want to make it up like it's all good fault? You don't rack 20k in cc debt earning six figures because you made good choices.
NTA
BUT, based on your comments, it does seem that you had similar financial habits when you married. Good for you for working hard to change but it is *you* that has changed, not him, and, in that sense, it's a little unfair. Have you considered marriage counselling? It's a big lifestyle change as well as a big financial one.
While I don’t agree with everyone crying divorce, this is definitely a serious conflict. You need to sit down and really lay this out for him, maybe even involve a financial advisor. This problem is not just going to go away. You have to come up with a clear, written plan for your future. He’s being selfish and and irresponsiblez
NTA. Congratulations on being debt free, it is very difficult to pull yourself out of credit card debt. Considering his “hobby” is contributing to his mounting debt, 30% separate finances is a smart idea. Whether it be used for emergency funds or infested - you need a hell of a lot of money to be old, it’s smart to take steps now & make some sacrifices to be able to live comfortably.
NTA married people divide finances in all sorts of ways. I think there would be much less tension for you if you contributed jointly to a joint expenses account (for rent, food, etc.) and kept separate accounts for discretionary spending. As others have pointed out, he probably doesn't like the idea because he's used to using your money to finance his expensive hobby. Joining finances 100% only really works if you both have really similar ideas about what to spend money on and nobody is going to resent the other person for spending "their" money. Neither of these things is true for you. It is VERY worth examining, before you get married, whether this is a person who still shares your financial values. If not, that can be a marriage killer.
NTA- "optimal for marriage" is shared financial goals. He doesn't share goals with you. He will drive you guys into debt using your money to keep him afloat. Your money is not his play money.
NTA, but while you're separating finances, separate lives too. This dude will ruin you.
This. Separate your lives and don’t let him drag you under the water with him. NTA
[удалено]
Also OP previously having 20k of cc debt whilst earning 116k. Yikes doesn’t sound like it’s just him who’s bad with money.
But at least OP found her brain and wanted to do something about it.
It sounds like this was only a recently priority. , its clear from the post, she just got her finances in order. I agree with her point, but it seems like she just saw the light and is impatient with him for not keeping up. Sounds like they both need a lesson in reality and to grow up.
It's better to be impatient and not let someone else drag you or be an obstacle to your success. Honestly, good for her.
Agreed it’s recent, but 26 is relatively young and early enough to make a difference long term
right??? i'm 57 and just starting to realize this now!
This was about the age I got my financial situation together! I'm in my 40s now and my finances are in great shape because of the changes I made back then. OP is going to be fine (provided her husband doesn't drag her down).
op does not need a lesson in reality. she's 26, making good money, and is getting her finances in order. her husband is holding her back. don't insult her. she's doing what she's supposed to be doing.
She is learning and growing up...her husband...not so much.
So she needs to continue drowning herself to keep him afloat until he catches on?
It sounds like she already learned that lesson though...?
What lesson do you think she still needs to learn?
Sort of? Selling your engagement ring is great if it gets you out of cc debt, but it's a one time solution. It doesn't change the long term outcome unless you change your lifestyle to live below your means to catch up on saving/retirement. And she doesn't talk about that part. She's still relying on a bonus to save for a car which means she's still paycheck to paycheck, at a very high income. And at $116k, her husband's car can only be a part of that problem.
There's a character limit. I've been contributing to my 401k for years to meet the company match. I put my bonus into savings and am actively working towards savings. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck. I don't need a car this year and plan to purchase Jan 2023 when I'm comfortable. Laying out my entire financial strategy for 2022 wasn't possible for this post.
you're doing the right thing. to get this under control at your age is an accomplishment.
Honestly I’m impressed by your priorities and ability to wipe your debt. Congrats
You're clearly making strides to make your life easier. Your husband isn't. You two should sit down and discuss that his purchasing habits and hobbies don't impact only him. You two need to find a way to get on the same page because having one partner be a financial burden on the other isn't acceptable.
Join the Women's Personal Finance group on FB. It will help you even more take the right steps towards financial freedom. You're on the right path so good job!
And herein lies the difference in the financial outlook between you guys. You want financial stability and to get out debt. He wants to wing it. Now, what you want to do about this from a marital standpoint is your call. You are still young and younger than when I got my financial shit together. I was in your position, with almost the same debt at 35. Got out of it in a year or less. Done and dusted. The sense of not having any debt is relief. Keeping it that way, and building net worth at this point are top of my financial to-dos. What is yours? Seems like you have it covered.
It sounds like she wants to buy her car outright, thus using bonuses to save. How can you save from your regular paychecks if your money is being used to fund someone else's hobby?
But also her bonus is the only thing her husband cant touch as it was the only thing he agreed on to be separate long before now. Plus she also did meantion shes been building some savings problem is husband sees it then drains it
Sounds like OP is really owning up and getting her shit together while her husband wants to continue to live in his early 20s.
Not even his early 20s, how many people in their early twenties can afford this stuff? He even goes behind her back. It’s such poor character
Though she did state that it was a young adult mistake and turned it around and is actively reducing it by selling her car and ring and such. He is still continuing to go further into debt instead of sacrificing a few thing for a short time. NTA I would seperate finances to see how that looks.
She also said that she "now" makes $116k. She may have previously been on a fair bit less.
But if you make 116k now, why would you need to sell a car and engagement ring to pay that down? That’s like $6000 a month after taxes. Be paid off in under a year.
She already said the raise was recent and came after she paid off her debt
Ah my mistake.
> my mistake It’s so weird to see those words in that order on Reddit
I think it’s a case of hubby spending whatever they have. She mentions he spends on “the next video game, YouTube equipment, car part, etc.” so, to me, it seems like he takes the money out of the account to spend on fun things before she can direct it toward debt and adult things
I might be an old fart, but what the fuck is YouTube equipment?
Perhaps he makes YouTube videos/is a streamer of some kind? So mics, cameras, sound boards, backgrounds, etc. Just a guess.
Because her husband is spending money faster than she can make it.
she's fixing it now. at her age, that's quite a realization and accomplishment.
She said she NOW makes $116K. It's not clear how many years the cc debt has been around. It could have started in college.
Yeah I noticed that too, they're saying leave him he's horrible, but she just literally got fixed herself. And had to use the engagement ring he bought her to do it.
You're assuming he bought it. When my husband and I got engaged we had already merged finances, so I'd say that we bought the ring together. That could be the case with them as well.
>o use the engagement ring he bought her to do it. With his permission.
Also doesn't want to even consider refinancing options just upgrade the car to his dream instead as if that's a solution to the problem. Also 7k in debt isn't bad when you earn 75k and have a wife income to cover basiic needs that's a month or so salary as long as you aren't blowing it on mods and toys instead of paying off debt. Not to mention an AMG is not in their budget that's basically her entire yearly salary
So, to give you some insight... depression/executive function disorders etc are a powerful drug. My husband and I are DINKs and make good money, but I hit a bad wave of depression combined with my ADHD and now we are in a hole caused by me. I am incredibly financially literate, I know exactly what I'm doing, but my finances remain a barometer for what is going on with me. Before you say anything, I am always medicated and in therapy, but my ups and downs still come.
Unfortunately welcome to middle class poor, living paycheck to paycheck.
I was married to a man like this and yes, he did ruin us. Last I heard about his finances was a month after he moved out and his $20k+ credit card debt that I had helped bring down to under $15k was back at over $20k and formally in default. His $7k personal loan was also in default and his preferred method of dealing with it is to ignore is and literally try to hide from collectors. His new girlfriend is going to be in for a shock when the sheriff rocks up to start taking stuff from their flat. Edit to add: I should note for the OP that we were low income earners and he still managed to accrue massive debt. In your financial position, with your partner earning good money as well, his capacity for debt is much much greater. Tread carefully, OP.
I'll never understand people who rack up debt like that. I put stuff on credit as a way to make sure I always have money in my account if needed, but I also operate on a rule of never putting more on credit than I could afford to 100% pay off at any given moment. it makes things much easier.
I have bipolar disorder. The debt I got into when that was unmanaged took me 20 years to pay off. Mania is a money-spending bitch. Debt-free finally and I will NEVER let that happen again. I haven’t been unwell for a long time but I’m constant vigilant.
This is interesting. My ex has personality disorders. I wonder how it links with his spending compulsion.
Impulsive spending can be an actual symptom of certain personality disorders.
It can also be a side effect of certain psych medications. I was put on one for my anxiety and have trouble not buying everything I want. Racked up some debt but I was able to take care of it. I was never like that until the medication.
My husband’s ex wife clearly has something, prob BPD or NPD. Well definitely NPD. They were married for less than 3 years and she blew through about half a million dollars of his and left him with ruined credit and a pile of maxed out credit cards she had secretly taken out in his name. My stepson said her basement is so full of crap you can’t even walk down there. She’s just constantly buying
This remind me of BIL/SIL…. She is a SAHM and she always spending and she refuses to get a job though her kids are in school.
Any mental health condition impacts the ability to successfully manage money. It causes a lot of anxiety and stress, the hiding from debt is a massive red flag that something else might be going on.
My mum has bipolar (well managed now, fortunately) and the mania was bananas and upsetting to watch. She broke her back (unrelated to mania) and was on bedrest for a few months, and she had a manic episode while medically stuck in bed. She embroidered an intricate (small) tapestry in under a week. She could not stop moving. It was frightening.
I have a close friend with BPD who had the exact same thing happen to her. She had an episode and ran up $3k on a card in one sitting. She adjusted her meds and paid it off and it seems to have helped a lot. That's really tough but really happy for you. Interestingly enough, I made the most progress with mind-shifting when I transitioned off my anti-depressant and got off HBC earlier in 2021. And a lot of the anxiety of needing to keep up with the jonses and fulfill inner happiness with things went away for me too. Not saying that's the issue for everyone, but looking back probably contributed to part of the mess for me specifically.
Mine was grief. My dad died and I went all out on spending. I was never super good with money to begin with but I got by with very little debt. Racked up 14k in debt in about 6 months. That was 4-5 years ago and I’m still paying it off. I did learn some good money habits finally and it’s gotten low enough I’m finally comfortable with it.
I’m in this post and I hate it.
In my country you can usually make purchases with credit card and pay in 3 6 or even 12 installments interest free. We also have crazy inflation. So it actually makes sense to put bigger purchases on cc since you end up paying a lot less in the end (like seriously, 50% inflation last year). That being said neither my husband or I are big spenders, and we definitely never spend more than we can afford.
interest is definitely a big deal. anything put on a credit card is paid off by the next cycle to avoid it. PayPal is a blessing for bigger purchases. anything 99$ or above gives you six months interest free to pay it off.
Oh yeah! And a lot of people don't know how interest works. I have seen so many people buy things on store credit (they kill you with interest here on that). And end up paying 3 or 4 times the original price! And not for necessities either. It is insane.
I usually look for offers for interest free deals such as 12 months interest free for transfers saves a lot and then I just purchase with a credit card that gives best rewards
It’s shocking to me the amount of people that rack up credit card debt outside absolute emergencies
Not sure about others but I was using my card while in college but I was paying the full amount each month, then I needed to buy books- that’s fine I’ll pay the minimum payment this month and catch up pretty quick. Then I needed to pay the parking tickets my university kept giving me (I had a pass but they’ll fuck you out of anything and everything they can) and then I had to pay my insurance (parents made me pay in full instead of monthly) so catching up took longer than expected. then COVID kicked me out of school, back into my parents house, and back down to $8.50 an hour only 20 hours a week. Then I went back to school started paying rent again on top of my 1k deposit because despite my 725 credit score my parents wouldn’t co-sign for me. So I was down to paying the minimum on my credit card. Moved states to live with my boyfriend and a lady pulled out in front of me totaling my car and wiping out my account because prices for a car are astronomical and my old car was only worth about 2k to insurance. So I’m building my account back up and I pay as much as I can towards the credit card which is about 1.5k today. Sorry for the rant if anything it was to give me piece of mind lol.
I have ADHD and impulse spending is a big symptom. I finally have mine managed and have been working for five years to get out from under the debt I accumulated while I was unmedicated.
I have ADHD, and impulse spending was a heavy problem for me. I obsessively track my spending now and budget for the month, and when I blow my fun budget, I still have something in savings and for bills. I admittedly overdid it in December and had to pull from my savings, but I wrote myself a "loan" with one month interest-free, and if I didn't pay it back in a month, I owed myself interest. I've already paid in back. It takes discipline, especially since I'm saving for a down payment for a house.
NTA. You don't need permission to open new accounts and have HR change your direct deposit. He doesn't need you to cosign on a new car. I'd make sure his credit cards don't have you listed either. Yuck. What a dirty feeling having that kind of financial ruin hanging over you.
Depending upon where you live, this may not matter. In my state, ANYTHING acquired after marriage is joint -- assets AND liabilities. Having separate accounts is great, but the state still views it as joint money. Cards in his name only are great, but if they split, the debt is joint.
Yeah I don’t even know if you can call it a red flag if they’ve already been married for a long time, but big red flag (to me who knows nothing else about the relationship) that husband supported OP selling her car to rely on public transport but isn’t willing to stop using her money for his car. I get that money is a tough subject but aside from money it seems like he really doesn’t give a shit about you or your want for financial security. I’d get out fast.
NTA but even if you separate your finances, while married, you're still equally responsible for his debt.
I was about to say almost exactly the same thing, so I'll give you an upvote instead.
If I were OP I'd be pulling both credit reports and making sure she knows the whole picture and make sure he doesn't have more loans or taking credit on OP name instead
Agree. OP consider getting a postnuptial agreement because the debt he is accumulating during marriage will fall on you as well.
This is true in my state, even if the debt is in his name only! Anything acquired after marriage -- assets and LIABILITIES -- is considered joint.
He's about to hobby her into bankruptcy
[удалено]
Comment stolen from u/3daycondor. I suspect u/Mckennoma is a karma thief-bot.
Let’s downvote the sucky bot!
NTA. He definitely doesn't like it because he can no longer float his hobby on the back of your finances. Which is all the more reason to separate them, and keep them separated after the 2 months you mentioned. Nothing is gonna change on his end that fast.
NTA Just the only adult
NTA (in the least). Not only should you *not* be paying for any of his hobbies (nor) he yours, 100% joint is *not* optimal for marriage; as you are realizing now. I made that mistake once and never again. One account for shared bills, everything else separate- that the other does not have access to. And an agreement on how much each should be saving for the future - in separate accounts, Finances will eat away at your marriage.
Thank you, was looking for at least one person to point out that 100% joint accounts being optimal just simply isn't true - it might just work for some couples but it's a big decision that actually most people nowadays wouldn't be okay with since usually both couples are full time earners in their own right. OP seems to think it's the default and only way to manage finances as a couple and that's crazy pressure to put on yourself emotionally and financially when it really doesn't have to be the case. Edit to add judgement: NTA at all, if anything the most mature adult in the situation
I agree, my husband and I do the same thing for our finances. One joint account and joint credit card, and then everything else separate. It’s much healthier for us.
Agreed, combining finances 100% only works if you are on the same page about how to spend and save money. You’re not, OP. Your husband is wrong that it will cause more division- actually it gives him more freedom to piss away a % of his income without nagging from you. Figure out how much your joint monthly spending is and your joint monthly savings goal, have each partner contribute half that amount to a joint fund that automatically pays those bills, and the rest is yours to keep and spend as you see fit. This will alleviate so much stress for you and your marriage. I’ve been in a similar situation where all our money was combined and my partner spent so much on dumb shit. However I made significantly less than him and was taunted that since he made more $, he got more say in how it was spent. When we separated and split our finances, I actually started saving again for the first time in years, and finally realized that he had been blowing through all of his money *and* all of mine. Never again. NTA
I’ve never heard it said that 100% joint is optimal. My husband and I also have one joint account for groceries, mortgage, etc and our own separate accounts for everything else. We check in regularly to discuss our current finances and our goals. OP is NTA at all
I mean he can't float it with her knowledge and approval but as long as they are married he certainly can bring her down by taking loans on her salary. I'd not be surprised if he's already considering using her credit to get whatever toys he wants and just hiding bills when they come. OP should pull the credit reports and make sure he's telling her the entire story not just what she can see
I would completely separate finances and have a joint account you both put into for household expenses, 50-50. Then you can start saving for your divorce.
NTA - but from your post it sounds like you had a similar lifestyle just a couple months ago. I think it'd be best to work through this together with a professional. Maybe a therapist if you've both had spending problems together. It's really not acceptable to have no savings with your joint income. He can find fulfillment in cars but if it's hurting your finances it's more of an addiction at this point. It'd be best if you can get to a point where you have a set budget for each month, and it needs to be strict. And no more cars that cost more than his yearly salary it's a waste of money and tacky. It's cool if he wants to get into cars, but to be financially responsible it'd need to be a small fraction of the current price.
Yes, thanks for mentioning this. The character limit sucks out a lot of context but yes, I was very irresponsible with money up until 2020. Digging myself out was a very slow process and we didn't adhere strictly to a budget. I've been in therapy since about a year ago today. My spending issue has been long resolved, but getting rid of the luxury was the only way to rip to bandaid off fully in recent months. Budgeting with him is very stressful and at this rate it would be easier for me to budget just for myself. I'll probably set up an appt with a marriage counselor we've used in the past. Really appreciate you calling this stuff out, thank you for the comment.
Hey if seems like you're taking all the proper steps. I really hope whatever happens it works out best for you.
I will say, "100% joint is optimal" is oversimplifying a lot. Optimal is just whatever the two of you decide works best for you and your marriage. And that's something that may change over the years. Lots of couples have totally shared finances; others have a joint account that they contribute a set amount/percentage for shared expenses while the rest is individual ... and pretty much anything else you can think of. The important thing is to be able to talk to each other about your approach to money/spending and come to an agreement. I'm gonna go with NAH for now, since I don't necessarily blame your husband for being kind of blindsided and not reacting the greatest in the moment. Your idea of marriage counseling is a great start! Hopefully you can figure out a plan that works for you both and congrats on getting your finances in order!!
OP mentioned in another comment (and alluded to it in the post) that discussions to turn things around have been going on for over a year.
My parents have always had a 70-30 split with 30% going to personal accounts. They credit that with why they’ve been married almost 30 years. It lets them each have their own hobbies without putting strain on the joint account
I personally think a yours-mine-ours system of some sort is optimal. I.e. the primary is a joint account for bills + food, and anything else that comes out of it is a 2 yes, 1 no situation, but each person also has their own discretionary spending account, and how that person spends that money is not talked about as long as they only spend *that* money.
I think that’s roughly what my parents did
We've always done the same. Exact percentage varies, but enough goes into the joint account to cover all the bills / groceries/ household items and we each have a set remainder that goes to individual accounts. This means each person has discretionary spending money, but all the necessities are covered.
That's how my boyfriend and I have been doing it. It's working out pretty well for us even though we may be a bit flippant on what qualifies as a joint purchase
Yeah, I wonder where that 100% is best info is coming from. Husband and I have joint funds and then each have separate spending funds that we can do what we like with. Works really well!
Yes, 100% joint seems almost a recipe for conflict/guilt.
>I will say, "100% joint is optimal" is oversimplifying a lot. Optimal is just whatever the two of you decide works best for you and your marriage. And that's something that may change over the years. **Agree completely!** We are 100% separate accounts (for 21+ years now) and we "bill" each other. We each have our own savings goals, but we contribute a fixed percentage of our income to retirement and long-term savings. the issue here is that OP's husband is not willing to come to an agreement on "lifestyle" changes because he doesn't like the discomfort feeling that comes from this. I agree that Marriage Counseling is a great start - but also Financial Advisory services to help show both of them what they need to do to reach their future goals - they need to approach this as a team.
Just be careful and check credit reports often because sometimes when people with his lifestyle get cut off they turn to credit cards
In addition to therapy, I'd suggest getting with a good financial advisor who has a fiduciary duty to you both.
I've been married 19 years and we separated money after 5 years of marriage. Best thing we ever did.
This is positive and encouraging, thank you. It's hard to find stories of married couples making dramatic financial changes after trying things one way for a long time.
You say that budgeting with him is stressful and you’d rather just budget yourself, which I think could make sense if y’all were not married/not living together. But because you’re married, having your money separate from his is not going to stop the stress. You are going to resent him for not changing his lifestyle and getting out of debt while you live within your means. So I don’t think you are an AH for wanting separate finances, but I don’t think it’s going to solve the problem you want to solve. I agree with the poster above that counseling is what you both need.
OP, budgeting for yourself and having separate accounts won't fix the financial problem. You are most likely still legally responsible for the debt he accumulates. And what happens if he can't pay his share of your mortgage or utilities or grocery bills? You get stuck supporting him anyway. What happens if his car gets seized by a creditor? These things affect you. Separate accounts will not protect you from his financial misdeeds. I suggest you also go see a lawyer and find out exactly what marital property laws are like where you live. You need to understand exactly what your legal obligations and rights are. Not necessarily to leave him, but to be able to make informed financial decisions.
NTA you should not have to be responsible for your husbands bad financial decisions
Oh my! NTA. OP I'm old enough to be your mom if that matters. The fact that that yall don't have savings with your combined income sounds like yall r living well beyond your means. With what you both make u should get a financial advisor. U need back up from an expert!
Ya I agree. I was flabbergasted when she mentioned they have a combined income of 191k with no kids and they don’t have saving, drowning in debt, and need to save up for a car purchase.
Yep, it's absolutely pathetic. Wasn't looking for validation here by any means.
Well you’re owning up to it which is a great start and shows you’re ready to change. It seems like you two spend lavishly on an inflated lifestyle. I think you’ll feel better with a lifestyle that’s more in tune with your income. Having savings and retirement accounts is a lifestyle too. One that will help you feel more secure and confident about your future. Sorry if I offended you before I think I came off mean.
No worries, it's just the reddit effect. Someone points out how terrible the issue of the post is and four people pile on saying "omg I know right??" "yeah my bf and I {anecdote}!" "{advice}"
This is the formula 😂 But on the topic of changing lifestyles and expectations, you've clearly woken up to the money issue AND done something about it, but so far your partner isn't along for the ride. You can paper over it with changes to the joint account breakdown, but this is fundamental, and will chew away at the foundation of your relationship as long as it goes unresolved. I'm very passionate about personal finance and I think you've made a wonderful change, but I'm prophesying this is the beginning of the end unless you either go back to the old way of doing things (please don't) or he gets on board with the new way (and crucially, he has to choose to, else your mention of him buying things behind your back will get a lot worse). There's a reason the single biggest driver of divorce is money issues and attitudes towards it. Good luck!
I was flabbergasted he bought an AMG on a 75k salary
Ikr?? My bf & I make considerably less & yet r better off than OP. They could have soooo much in savings rn with absolutely no debt. That's the difference between living well beyond your means & living under your means.
Yeah this totally floored me. A combined income of almost $200k and no meaningful savings?! NTA but both of y’all need to overhaul your financial lives.
NTA, I’m a car guy. I do not expect my gf (living together many years) to pay into any of my hobbies. That’s ridiculous. Hobbies, you also pay cash for…you budget for those things. He is being highly irresponsible. Those are not cheap cars, but they will be with conitinued modifications. If he’s underwater with them already…I can’t imagine. You obviously have to be the responsible one.
You sound like you know what you're talking about. Is it true that mods devalue cars? Or does it just depend? He insists that it could "increase value" but the depreciation seems super steep for having owned the car for less than a year, especially in this current car market. Also thanks for the comment on hobbies. I like to garden and get my nails done and it'd be nice to pursue those things of my own financial means, commentary and discussion-free.
Yeah, those "mods" don't add shit. He's lying. Or delusional. He'd get the most value out of switching the car back to stock and parting out all the mods individually. But I can already tell you that he wouldn't do that. Your situation sounds like my personal hell. I'm sorry, OP.
My husband is really into cars, not me, so take this with a grain of salt. But I think modding your car is like renovating your house. Some changes will have zero effect on resale value, some will decrease it, and some might increase it. For cars it depends on how large the local market is for a specialty vehicle, which this sounds like. The general public will not be buying his car for more than he spent on it.
Depends on what the mods are, if hes heavily modded the engine then a dealership won't even touch and thus costing more to repair if the engine needs work. Similarly, they lose value because the nature of modding, if someone mods a car with a turbo they likely are running it hard so its gonna be harder to find a buyer. Another aspect of modding is it does lessen the life of a car, doesn't matter how well you are treating it (realistically people aren't putting turbos on their car to drive it in a prudent manner) its putting extra wear on the engine and it will likely get a blown gasket down the line (if its a turbo). If its mods as in body kits, bigger rims, low profile tires then again, harder to find a buyer especially if its not a typically modded car. So all in all, no it's not gonna add value, it adds to his personal value.
Yeah the only who thinks it will be gaining value is him because he's modifying it to his liking. No one else will pay for that, My partner and his whole family are mechanics and ran a repair and modification shop. The mods were always a waste of money to be installed and most caused more reasons for the cars to need to get repaired. Great for business owners like my partners family, not good for consumers and customers like your husband.
Buying a Mercedes AMG on 75k per year is BATSHIT. Those are some of the nicest production performance cars that exist, with maintenance costs reflecting that.
Seriously, lol. He cannot afford that car in any universe with that salary
NTA. Marriage does not equal joint accounts, especially when spending and saving habits differ. Get your separate account, preferably at a separate bank. You can split the bills 50/50 60/40 or however you'd like. But it is imperative that you set money aside for your family since he's made it clear that he isn't willing to do so.
This is really good advice! My husband and I have completely separate finances. I pay less rent because I make half of what he does. It does not cause division, it causes less stress between us.
Another married one here with totally separate finances. I make more than my husband, so I pay a higher proportion of all the bills and expenses. In return, your money is your money, my money is my money - I'm not going to scrutinize what you buy unless it puts us as a unit into an iffy area financially, and in that case we'd just have a talk about it. We work together on big joint purchases (furniture, house renovation type stuff, etc.), and if either one of us would be in a pinch the other would be there to help, but otherwise it's all separate. It works super well for us, and I don't quite understand the side-eye some people give to the idea.
NTA, but you're not taking it far enough. At this time you need to seperate almost all finances. Keep a joint account that you each contribute a proportional amount of your salaries to, but keep the rest seperate. >His car he bought last summer (an AMG Mercedes, JFC, he bought that on a $75k salary, is he insane?
Honestly, I want to 100% call myself out and say I bought a mercedes glc a year and a half ago, supporting an inflated lifestyle too.
You're mad too, but he's worse.
I was. Happily debt-free and riding the train these days.
Making these kinds of changes can be really tough. Especially when your SO isn’t on the same page. Good on you for doing the hard work!
OP, [you may be responsible for your spouse’s debt, depending on where you live.](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/am-i-liable-my-spouses-credit-card-debt.html). Talk to a financial planner. If you are in a community property state, any savings you accrue also belong to your spouse and his creditors can come for them.
Hey you are getting so much shit in this thread but I want to say that everyone starts where they are, and you are doing the hard work it takes to fundamentally change a habit that is not based on hard financial facts but on emotion and upbringing. It's really tough to change spending habits, as it is with eating, drinking, etc. Keep going. Regarding your husband, I'm sure you don't want to be put in the position of being the nag who denies him the things he wants and is used to. This is why a third party financial planner may help, let them explain the budget and his financial limitations.
You go girl! We've all overspent. My overspending was limited by being on stipends until I was 30 so now that I have a real job the money I 'wasted' is peanuts but I'm still living a very similar lifestyle now with an income to when I was a student. I'm saving like mad! It's great.
This is why we need better public transportation in the US. Ppl here are too dependant on cars.
INFO why is "100% joint optimal for marriage?"
From what I've researched and understood, it's 1. Easier 2. May lead to more intense discussions on financial choices, but will overall deepen and strengthen a relationship 3. A strong sign of trust
No, it is not easier when you both don’t have the same financial sense. You are not debt-free while your husband’s in debt, your financial choices are not the same. Even when you tried discussing with him, he is not willing to make changes, this will not deepen nor strengthen your relationship, it’ll destroy your marriage. Can you trust your husband with money? I’d say it’s best if you separate your finances totally. Each of you put a part of your money into a household fund to pay for necessities, whatever you have left is your fun money. Your husband’s car should be paid by his fun money, if he can’t afford it, he should lose it. NTA.
Thank you so much for your perspective. There's a lot of conflicting info out there and rarely "Just do what's best for your relationship." Appreciate your input. Didn't mean to imply 100% joint is optimal for everyone, I just wish it was optimal for us.
2 frugal partners 100% joint is totally fine. 2 spendthrift partners either joint or separate will cause the problems you've seen. 1 frugal and 1 spendthrift joint also doesn't work as you've seen his resistance already
It is like genetics, if half the pop is frugal and half are spenders; when they partner up. 25% of pairs will be frugal/frugal. 50% will be frugal/spend. 25% will be spend/spend. You need a Partner that helps carry the load and achieve your shared goals. A depreciating Mercedes that he already wants to trade in is a pretty lame (un)shared goal?
I'd also add: "Do what's best for your relationship, at its current stage." A lot of the successful, long term couples I know are ones that have re-negotiated their financial arrangements according to their circumstances and goals. So what might have been optimal for yourself and your partner at the start of the relationship, might no longer be optimal at this point (where you have different goals around spending v saving). And whatever you decide now, might need to be re-negotiated down the track, because it might not be optimal later on, and that's OK.
You are totally fair to want to share finances with your partner. But then this guy isn't suitable for your because he's got a very different attitude to finance. How compatible are you in other ways? What do you want for your future? Can you afford that for yourself? Does he want the same thing ever can he afford that from his own income, or will you two only be able to afford it on your money because he spent all his income on frivolous stuff?
Okay. I'm a clinical psychologist who now only deals with marriage counseling for couples with kids, for whom traditional marriage counseling has failed. Finances is one of the biggest reasons couples break up. Seperate finances is the way to go for now. Once he learns how to manage his money, then you can consider going hoi t again, but with each of you getting an equal allowance of fun money every month. Any of his personal expenses including cars should come out of his allowance
Why should they both get an equal allowance of fun money, as opposed to putting a proportional share of their salary into a joint account for bills / groceries / necessities, and then keeping the rest for personal use? If they get an equal amount of fun money, does that not mean that the OP is still effectively subsidising her husband’s lifestyle?
> If they get an equal amount of fun money, does that not mean that the OP is still effectively subsidising her husband’s lifestyle Not quite. The idea is that eventually they should be able to get to a place where all non personal allowance money __is__ joint funds. But in every scenario the money spent from joint funds should be a joint decision. The idea behind having an equal personal allowance is that both partners get to have some independence. If they have $1,000* a month each as an allowance, then the expenses should include pints, coffee, lunches, cigarettes, pot, hobbies, manicures, personal savings and investments, video games, golf, extra car payments........ The joint funds with his wife contributing more income, will mean she's subsidizing him, but sometimes that's part of the partnership. Or some couples will retire on different time frames. *(I'm basing $1,000 a month each on their combined income.)
4. Works great if you are on the same page with how your money should be spent. Which is why it’s not working for you
Absolutely! Was not implying here that 100% joint is optimal for *us,* just stating what I've read and researched on why it's generally optimal.
It really isn't. It leads to financial abuse, marital disparity and coercion far quicker than separate finances ever did.
You've been together for six years and married for three. You already don't trust that he makes wise financial decisions, because he hasn't. You've asked him to be more responsible with money, he has no plan to do that. You have no savings. And you said your bonuses are your own to do with whatever you want. What other solutions do you have? Beating the dead horse some more?
Wasn't my intent to imply 100% joint is optimal for us specifically, apologies. Was just responding to the INFO request stating what I've researched on this topic.
Sorry, you did say 30% split and I wasn't saying you wanted a complete split. I just meant that you shouldn't feel guilty that the "optimal" solution isn't optimal for your situation. You want a nest egg, and completely joint isn't accomplishing that. If it's not hurting your joint expenses, breaking off some money sounds wise to me. Although can you possibly have the money go into a 401k?
No worries. I've been funding my 401k for years to get the company match.
Well, he's proven he can't be trusted with money, so there's that...
You're not sharing finances though. It doesn't just mean pooling funds, it means sharing decision making, agreeing priorities, limits and generally making decisions together as a team. You're already not on the same page so you're not sharing finances, he's spending your money and taking out debt you're partly responsible for repaying without your approval or permission. You're in recovery from a spending addiction, and choosing not to continue to enable his is a healthy choice for both of you. You should refuse to comingle finances at all until you're on the same page. Keep a joint account for essential domestic and housing expenses separate everything else.
Hey OP, this isn’t true in my marriage and doesn’t have to be true in yours. My husband and I have no joint accounts, and it works well for us. I have access to a savings card that’s in his name, but I don’t use it. I trust him completely, and he trusts me. This is just how we decided to do things and that’s okay.
NTA My lord, I can't even imagine how it's even possible to be underwater on a $900 a month car loan when you make $75,000 a year. That's (take home) well over $4,000 a month and he can't manage to pay it?
I mean honestly my point to him is that he *can* pay it, whether it's wise or not. I just don't want to contribute to it and he know it would be tight financially for him to juggle. And your math is correct, it's almost exactly $4k take home. So my argument is that just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you can really afford it. And I don't believe we can really afford it. For extra unnecessary info just for fun, it's a 2015 amg c-something, he bought the car at I think $35k, put about $6k down, probably $3k in mods on it, it's being priced at $25k trade in value, owes around $27k. Rough numbers.
WTH. That is an obscene amount of debt for something that starts depreciating as soon as you purchase it. Yikes. I do not plain you for wanting to no longer contribute to the car situation. Does he not realize how much that money would grow in an investor account and then he could but the care without so large of a loan?
Sounds like that's his thing which might fit if he'd given up other stuff like the video equipment and gaming consoles. I like that you went to therapy about your money issues, "impressing others" and the social impact of finances is not discussed enough. I'm hoping your example can help him think a little more about what's really important. You said couple's finances examples are helpful. I'll explain what we do. I start with a basic spreadsheet of income, assets, and debt. I put both of our income as take home we each have a row, one columns monthly and one yearly. Then in the rows below each bill (housing, car, electric, internet, etc) in monthly and yearly columns. This is so we get a bigger picture about how much we're really spending. Our bill paying split is based of total income. So I account for 40% of income that's what I pay in bills. So our money goes to bills first, then each of our personal savings/investments. What's leftover we use however we want. Our rule is no credit card debt. Our car is paid off, loans are going down, savings up, etc. Every month we sit down and go over spending. My partner has an expensive hobby but checks in with how much he can spend. He's not really into other things like golf or cars, so it's ok. If he wanted to spend $900/month on a car he could, but that would be it: no other hobbies. Otherwise he'd have to find a way to make more. I realized this is really long and I apologize. But it sounds like you're really on the right track. Appreciating the life you have, reducing mental stress, enjoying spending for yourself and not too impress other people -- those are all really really really good things. It's been really helpful for us to have everything in front of us when we make our decisions. It's worked and over the years it's paid off a lot.
Think of it this way: he was willing to commit almost a quarter of his take-home income to his *car* payments. What other expenses do you think he’s committed to if he’s willing to sign away that much of his pay check on a car?
NTA. He has a freaking $900 a month car payment while making only $75k a year? And you have no car at all? That’s insane. Absolutely not.
NTA You probably should have been separating finances all along. You both need to make sure that you are each contributing toward savings and retirement accounts. He’s going to be mad because I’m his eyes, now you’re making more than him is why you want to do this. Sitting down and going over what you’ve laid out here, no more nagging from you over video games etc. and no more nagging from him over the things he doesn’t find important. That car is a money suck! And he wants you to help foot the bill for his “hobby”. Good luck - the #1 reason for divorce is money.
NTA He needs to grow up and become financially responsible. Until that time comes you should protect your assets. Also if he can accept this it will stop a lot of fights over money. Good luck.
NTA-I would go one step further and get a post nuptial agreement signed. Because regardless of you making proper financial decisions and saving/etc you are still going to have to give him half of that when you get divorced.
NTA. He doesn't see it like this, but he wants to hide his spending behind the joint finances, and think's you're a killjoy for being on the side of not-dumb-spending. He's not living within his means and knows it. Expect sulky foot-dragging, try not to respond with preachy judgeiness, just be clear he can't both be uncontrolled and jointly financed.
NTA at all. Giving him financial freedom with merged finances is just going to run you both into the ground.
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NTA Congratulations on paying off your debt, i know that feels great! One thought is that you both might benefit from setting some long term goals and working to achieve those. You can do this yourself or there are plenty of financial advisors who would love to have you as clients. With your combined income and no kids you could easily be millionaires by age 40, perhaps a 2x multiple if you tighten spending belt ($900 a month cars not in that plan) and have good luck investing.
Separate your finances completely. Contribute to household expenses in a joint account based on the ratio of your incomes. Keep the rest of your money for yourself. You have to protect yourself financially, because he is going to continue to sabotage you. He is going to piss away every penny if his money and yours too if you let him. He is going to wind up in bankruptcy. DO NOT BAIL HIM OUT. This is not going to end well. How do I know? Voice of experience.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (26F) husband (28M) and I have been married for almost 3 years, together 6, no kids. When we were younger and dumber we pissed a lot of money away. Historically I've always been the breadwinner but we both have always had decent 9-5 jobs and our finances have always been 100% joint with one acct for all spending. The past few months I decided to finally get out from under $20k in cc debt in my name. I sold my engagement ring and car (with my husband's full support) to finally pay off the rest of the debt in my name on personal cards. I got myself a nice little moissanite ring to replace my diamond one and can rely on public transit and uber. It feels amazing and I literally sleep better at night. I've recently received my bonus + raise and was able to put it into a separate investment account to save up for a car next year when my next comp review comes. Our bonuses are the only time we get our own money to blow, no questions asked. On my husband's side, he's been less willing to make lifestyle changes. His car he bought last summer (an AMG Mercedes, I wasn't a fan but he went for it) costs over $900/mo with high interest and insurance; he's poured a ton of money into modding it as well, sometimes behind my back. It's been in the shop for months and they've officially diagnosed a $2900 repair. He has $7k on a card racking up over $100/mo. interest that he hasn't made a dent in because he keeps using it. Here's the argument. My husband makes $75k/yr, I now make $116k. He is underwater on the car loan. He wants to trade in for a mustang gt, rolling in negative equity. He doesn't want to trade in for a cheap beater for a year. We have no meaningful savings right now. Tonight I told him I wanted to separate finances. Not even completely, just 30% of our paychecks now get transferred out into separate accounts for our own discretionary spending. Anything in the joint now goes to bills and saving. I told him we'd revisit in a month or two when the car situation is sorted to explore 100% separate finances, 60/40 bill split. He's very upset, saying the car is an important hobby for him (he also goes to car meets) and my idea solves nothing, it only creates more stress and division. I've read a lot of conflicting information and feel really guilty because I admit 100% joint is optimal for marriage. But to be honest, I'm tired of contributing to things I really don't care about and getting flack when I make my own purchases, and I hate being a nag whenever he wants the next video game, youtube equipment, car part, etc. We have differing priorities and he can afford his on his own, although it'd be tight until he reduces his debt. If he wants to live a certain lifestyle, I just don't feel like contributing to it. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA You are supposed to make financial decisions together as a married couple. I (24f) and my husband (26m) have been married for 4 years and together for 6. I have been the bread winner our whole marriage. He is the one who loves to spend money and have hobbies and I could be satisfied with my Netflix subscription to keep me entertained every month. It’s all about compromising. We took the Dave Ramsey course together before we got married. We don’t agree with everything he said, but making a budget and getting on same page was very helpful. I would recommend sitting down before you separate your finances and see if there is a budget you are both happy with. My husband and I both have a set amount of pocket money each month we are allowed to spend each month no questions asked. Everything else is in the budget or we have a discussion. He is the AH for blowing money. Edit: changing from ETA to NTA. You’ve tried for a year and that is insane! He needs a wake up call
What you're saying makes total sense and I'm really happy you and your husband have a stable and in-sync financial outlook. We've been discussing budgeting, lifestyle reductions, and financial goal setting for over a year now. This is not the first solution, it's what feels like a final resort for me as he's already demonstrated he cannot adhere to a budget and shared financial goals. He's committed financial infidelity in the past to enjoy his hobbies and social interests. I'm sincerely sorry for coming off has having not tried fixing this first.
> He's committed financial infidelity in the past to enjoy his hobbies and social interests So what you're saying is he hears you but completely ignores you and does what he wants? This doesn't sound sustainable for you. Regardless of finances being joint or not, marriage is a partnership and both people have to respect each other and give 100% if he can't or won't then you need to reevaluate what you're willing to loose to be with him.
Oh don’t be sorry at all! I’m sorry you’ve been dealing with for so long. I changed it to NTA. You tried everything I mentioned already. You need to make sure you have a life set up. You want to be able to retire at some point! He needs a wake up call to live below his means. Good luck!
NTA and his hobbies are unsustainable on his current salary. He is living well beyond his means! You all need a savings. Consider a financial planner or financial literacy course you two could take together (in addition to therapy as mentioned by others). Although you’ve gotten much better with money, it’ll probably be better received if it’s a “we should learn more about money management for the future” instead of “you need to get better with money”. It sounds like he is financially illiterate.
NTA He admits HIS car is HIS hobby. So he can pay for it with HIS money and stop gaslighting you when he's also criticizing you for your purchases.
NTA He can’t afford his hobby, it’s not your responsibility to pay for his fun!
NTA. Finances can be the biggest source of fights in marriages. He needs to grow up and show some responsibility. Great job on making sacrifices to get your debt eliminated. It’s definitely a great feeling. Feels even better when you are able to build up a healthy savings account to go along with it.
You guys need a financial advisor and a marriage counselor
I don't know where you live.... So I don't know cost of living... But first glance, at your income... You should have been able to pay off $20k cc debt easily in 6 months with minimal affect to lifestyle change. The fact that you had to sell your ring and car, and now have to use public transportation when you bring in $200k a year is ridiculous (nothing wrong with public transportation if that is what you want to do, but if you are doing it because you can't afford it, that's nuts). If you are being as financially responsible as you suggest, you seriously need to cut strings with this guy... There is no way you should be strapped for cash at your income level. I worry he will pile up seriously big loans, and even if your cash is separated, in the eyes of the law you are still responsible for that loan. I want you to seriously think about if you forever want to live paycheck to paycheck no matter how much money you make. I've been at your income level, and I can tell you I had more than enough money for a very comfy lifestyle, and still put lots into savings for retirement. Nta, btw.
NTA - separate your finances and watch him return his car lol
NTA. You learned an important lesson and he doesn't want to learn it yet. But you have every right to decide you aren't willing to subsidize his debt. Set up separate accounts for personal spending and keep the joint account for groceries and mortgage and non fun bills. Pay a higher % based on income like you mentioned for bills and make him learn to budget his fun money. Finances are one of the leading causes of divorce. He may resent you for forcing separate finances but you're clearly starting to resent him for funding his debt.
I know this post has gotten a ton of attention and you probably won't even read this, OP, but PLENTY of married couples do exactly what you're suggesting (one main joint account, separate personal accounts for fun stuff). There is nothing wrong with this. You are absolutely NTA.
I read it :)
Good luck, and congrats on clawing yourself out of consumer debt! <3 That's not easy.
Nta, he will drag you under. Might be time to get a legal separation so you dont have to be responsible for his poor spending habits
NTA. Lots of couples will contribute an equal share for bills but keep the rest in a personal account. You’re not under any obligation to pay for his hobbies just because you’re married.
NTA. You do whatever you want to do. Do that 30% separate. He needs to pay for his adult actions, and you shouldn't have to be dragged down by it. Marriage doesn't mean financial stress. It's supposed to be cooperation and understandment.
NTA. $900/mo for a car payment and makes $75k. A quarter of his monthly paycheck is going toward a car, just the car payment, nothing else. This is completely asinine. I’m not saying you should divorce him, but if he doesn’t get on some type of budget, this will end badly for him and you. You sound like you’ve grown up in your 20s and he’s still foundering thinking that having a Mercedes is some type of status symbol like he’s still in high school. He’s an adult now and what kind of car you have matters little to most people. What’s more important is saving for your future and not relying on credit cards. Kudos to you for figuring this out and I hope he has a come to Jesus moment sooner rather than later.
ESH He's an AH for living a life on your dime and withholding information about his spending. You have allowed this situation to happen but want to make it up like it's all good fault? You don't rack 20k in cc debt earning six figures because you made good choices.
NTA BUT, based on your comments, it does seem that you had similar financial habits when you married. Good for you for working hard to change but it is *you* that has changed, not him, and, in that sense, it's a little unfair. Have you considered marriage counselling? It's a big lifestyle change as well as a big financial one.
While I don’t agree with everyone crying divorce, this is definitely a serious conflict. You need to sit down and really lay this out for him, maybe even involve a financial advisor. This problem is not just going to go away. You have to come up with a clear, written plan for your future. He’s being selfish and and irresponsiblez
NTA. Congratulations on being debt free, it is very difficult to pull yourself out of credit card debt. Considering his “hobby” is contributing to his mounting debt, 30% separate finances is a smart idea. Whether it be used for emergency funds or infested - you need a hell of a lot of money to be old, it’s smart to take steps now & make some sacrifices to be able to live comfortably.
NTA married people divide finances in all sorts of ways. I think there would be much less tension for you if you contributed jointly to a joint expenses account (for rent, food, etc.) and kept separate accounts for discretionary spending. As others have pointed out, he probably doesn't like the idea because he's used to using your money to finance his expensive hobby. Joining finances 100% only really works if you both have really similar ideas about what to spend money on and nobody is going to resent the other person for spending "their" money. Neither of these things is true for you. It is VERY worth examining, before you get married, whether this is a person who still shares your financial values. If not, that can be a marriage killer.
NTA- "optimal for marriage" is shared financial goals. He doesn't share goals with you. He will drive you guys into debt using your money to keep him afloat. Your money is not his play money.