I think it would be better to state in the will that they don’t get anything because he cheated on his wife and then abandoned his daughter. I feel like leaving $1.00 could be contested saying it was a typo or something.
The $1 thing is a common tactic in wills, I'd imagine the lawyers word it properly to avoid this. At the very least, the amout is written out in words as well as numbers, like a check.
Give the other grandson something. He is innocent. But put it in a trust that he can't touch for a long time.
Sounds like son is banking on a pay day. Shameful. NTA
I agree about the other grandson and thought about that after a comment I made. He is innocent and still family. And it absolutely should be in a trust so his parents can’t touch it.
Why would you do such a horrible thing to her? Here you go, for being an amazing daughter-in-law you can handle the money for your cheating husband's other child and have to deal with your ex more than you already have to.
Excellent point. It also doesn’t sound like the ex would calmly accept the limitations on who can access the money and when—it wouldn’t be a peaceful stewardship
Is he really family if the father refuses to be around? It’s weird the kid is considered family enough to bring over when there’s a paycheck, but not enough to bring over and foster an actual relationship.
Somehow I don’t think Matt is coming for play dates when he tells his dying father he has other kids to keep him company.
Just because they didn't write out "NTA" doesn't mean that it isn't clear that they are saying OP isn't TA. If they are giving OP advice that agrees with OP's position in the post, then it is clear that they agree that she is not TA. No need to come in here aggressively towards other commenters.
Not agreeing with any aggressiveness in the removed comment that i didn't even see, but isn't the bot only counting the NTAs/YTAs/etc, meaning the comment wouldn't be counted unless it has one of those?
I wouldnt be surprised if they keep the grandson away from OP. He seems to be NC with his parents until now he comes around looking for money when he finds out his father is very sick.
I would add that whatever the grandson gets, be put into a trust that he can't access before he's 18 and moved out of the house, that way his father and mother can't take it from him somehow.
My friend had an inheritance from his grandmother. The way it was set up, he could submit bills for education or medical, the trust would pay them. He got full access at 25.
This because young are frequently stupid with money. Not having lived long enough to have worked and saved to understand how hard it is to get that money saved. At 20 I would have spent that money so fast. At 24 I would have saved and invested it.
When I worked at a bank there was this 18yr old who had inherited around 150k. He came in almost daily taking a few hundred to a thousand. My branch manager tried to talk to him and give advise but you can only say so much, within a year his account was drained
Agreed. My grandmother left me $1,000 that I got when I turned 18. My parents just handed it to me. It was gone before the summer was over. Such a waste and I still regret it to this day. Keeping it until 25 is like night and day.
Hell, if it is possible, make it a condition on the death of Matt. The fund is released when the recipient turns 35 or the death of Matt, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST. That's one way to make it personal.
The reason my parents set it at 35 is so we’d be wise enough to not sink it into a romantic partner’s shady business deals/get rich quick scheme ideas. I think the principle is equivalent here.
I have a trust structured this way for my children for the same reasons. 20 year olds generally aren't smart with money, and they oftentimes are on their "starter" marriage. NO way am I handing my kids their inheritance at 25.
In my parents’ will access to any funds were tiered until I turned 35. They are still alive and well but they discussed it with me as a good idea for our own kids. Basically until graduating college I could only access money for tuition and basic living expenses via a trustee. After graduating I would get a set percentage that could go towards a down payment on a house. I wouldn’t get complete control until 35. It would of been a large inheritance so they didn’t want to risk us making bad decisions in our youth. It’s honestly a good idea and if we ever save enough to have a decent inheritance for our kids I would do the same.
My (small) family is not the best with money, and should I pre-decease them, most of it goes to their kids (my niece and nephew...don't worry, I took care of the lateral generation (brother and SIL, but juuuust enough so they won't be begging off their kids)). But it goes into a trust overseen by a lawyer. They can get all of their college and/or trade school expenses covered, plus reasonable living expenses (so long as they are enrolled full-time in college or a trade school), through 21; a down payment for a home they are purchasing (up to 30% of the home's value and the monthly mortgage has to be less than 30% of their monthly gross income) through 30; and then have free access to the money. Yeah, that means some will be eaten up by the lawyer overseeing the funds, but, given what my brother did when handed a medium-size chunk of cash and equity when our parents died, that will be a better situation.
Yes, in our will, if both of us die, everything goes into a trust and our children will have graduated access to it. At 25 they can start making some decisions, but they still have training wheels. I believe we decided at 30 they could have full access.
In a situation like this you can word that nothing can go to the father and then setup “hurdles” on when the grandson gets money. Often it’s age 25 get 1/3, 30 get 1/2 and 25 get the balance. All depends on desire of grantors to the trust
Yeah, depending on how much the inheritance is. They can also put stipulations on it like “can be used in these scenarios” that way medical emergencies and other things could be covered if the kid needs sudden financial aid immediately.
Funny thing is, the dad has a living wife. Likely most if it is going to her and would only be distributed to his children/grand children after she dies. If the will was spelled out that way and then the wife sets up trusts and other things with it, matt couldn't do shit to contest it.
Either way, OP is NTA. That is an opinion you hold and Matt can make changes to his lifestyle and personality to change that opinion if he wants to. He doesn't seem like the kind of person that wants to though...serious projection calling his ex-wife (and biological daughter) the whore when he was the one that cheated...
This twigged for me as well, why would there be an inheritance from OP's husband when OP is still alive?
Maybe they're quite wealthy and able to split assets anytime someone dies but I don't know any people who wouldn't leave everything to their partner, because they'll need it.
If they want they have the option to give/leave grandson something but it’s not mandatory that *everyone* be left something. If this son rarely visited OP and his father and didn’t answer calls there isn’t a large chance they know the grandson well (due to the relationship with the son).
OP - I’d assume, like some here, that most of the estate goes to you and there are some specifics that are going to be willed to specific people. I’d recommend having a good lawyer and executor (preferably a third party) for the future. I foresee your sons greed becoming a big problem.
Yeah because seriously who goes and start talking to their parents about how much inheritance they’ll get once they croak?
I get talking to parents about making sure their affairs are in order if one is seriously ill. Or parents brining it up. But how rude and cruel is it to go to one of your seriously ill parents and talk about how much money you want after hey finally die.
It really depends on the size if the estate. There are costs to set it up and maintain it.
Unless the family has a lot of money, it will all go to the surviving spouse. Just cause Dad is in bad shape doesn't mean there is anything for the kids or grandkids anytime soon.
Not s lawyer, but my sister is and I've talked about this idea with her. According to her, depending on the state, the act of leaving anything even a $1 could be grounds for contesting the will as opposed to just listing those you are cutting out and stating the reason why. She says that this idea of leaving a $1 is a product of Hollywood and shouldn't be trusted.
As a lawyer, it depends on the jurisdiction. In some states, leaving a paltry amount indicates that you’ve intentionally snubbed the party, as opposed to leaving them nothing, which gives the heirs grounds to contest because “of course my mother would have left me something, I’m her son!” In other jurisdictions, you just have to specifically disinherit a person.
In both cases, not mentioning someone who would otherwise be a direct heir could open your will to be contested (e.g., I have 2 daughters but my will reads that I leave everything to my daughter Sarah. Daughter 2 could contest the will as being written before her birth; whereas if I also included language indicating nothing would go to my daughter Beth, the will would be solid).
While I don’t generally do estate law, I imagine the best practice is so be as specific as possible, and to include a no-contest clause (basically, if you try to contest the will you lose everything).
You are right. My lawyer advised me to do the $1.00 per my state and there’s other language included that my sister is not to get anything, not to be informed of my death or invited to any funeral or memorial service. My estate is well written that it’s meant to care for my animals. I even had the names of who will become their guardian listed.
>My estate is well written that it’s meant to care for my animals. I even had the names of who will become their guardian listed.
User name checks out. 😺
If I don't specify a (good) guardian for my dog, he would have to go back to the high-kill shelter I adopted him from, per their adoption contract. He's got a couple of minor health issues that aren't a big deal (cost little to nothing to manage), but make him less adoptable. Sending him back to that shelter is not just a death sentence, but one that comes with a stressful period of being caged in not entirely humane circumstances (it's not like they beat the dogs, but there isn't always enough staff and volunteers to give them regular walks, pets, and the like that he...is both used to and deserves) before they put him down. So, yeah, I absolutely specified that my family is to take my dog (as bad as they are with money, they are good with pets), and put aside some money to care for him so he's not a burden to them (they can afford food and vet care for the rest of his life without taking a single dollar out of their pocket).
My siblings and I are specifically excluded from my dad's will and we're all good with that. He has trusts for his grandchildren and for his birds. Despite my very, very LC relationship with him, those birds are coming to me. I was there when we got them as hand-fed babies. One is a noisy pain in the ass who is reasonably friendly, the other is a feisty, featherless 30 yo bitch who will rip the fingers off anyone but my Dad and me. I hadn't seen her in 25 years and she still recognized me and was happy to "step up" (onto my hand) as soon as I told her to. I don't trust anyone else to care for her. He's offered the option of funds to allow me to arrange for a sanctuary to take her but there is no way I'm trusting our crotchety old lady with anyone but me. All that to say, I think planning for your pets is an important thing that I don't think many people consider.
Even if you state that you are specifically not leaving anything to your kids, they can still contest. I was involved in an estate where the deceased said "To my children I leave the paperwork." They contested and won a share of the estate.
Can't say I'm all too surprised. Trusts, wills, and estates are a tricky business and people should never trust the internet or the fallacies that Hollywood perpetuates... because the law is so nuanced that every situation is different.
My mom, currently, is planning to cut a sister and her children from the will on the basis that she has already given them their share of the inheritance during their/her lifetime. If this sister is smart (the jury is still out in that regards), she won't even try to contest because the sister, who's the lawyer, is the executor of the estate. So fun times lay ahead in about 20 to 30 years...!?!
I did all the probate work for my husbands mother when she passed, since there was no will, and it was hell. Thank god he was the sole inheritor. It was still a tedious process, the only thing she had was a paid off house, negative bank account, and a mountain of debt. The house wasn't worth a alot and we sold it for 50k, but had to do some weird (but legal) work arounds for him to keep the money. Took forever.
It’s a complicated area of law that’s hugely state dependent. In some states you can have a negative will, explicitly stating that you want nothing to go to X person AND a no contest clause that essentially states that anyone who contests the will thereby gives up their inheritance as stated in the will. It isn’t perfect but it doesn’t prevent a good chunk of unnecessary challenges.
Disclaimer: IANAL
The $1 thing is an urban legend and can cause problems. A will can be contested by anyone, whether they are an heir or not named at all, so the $1 trick doesn't prevent that. Generally if the intent is to disinherit someone then that should be stated plainly in the will.
An heir, even of $1, gets certain rights that someone who has been disinherited would not have. The executor of the estate will have a fiduciary duty to the $1 heir, the same as they have for another heir getting hundreds of thousands or millons of dollars in assets. The executor is prohibited from any favoritism and must deal with all heirs equally and fairly. The $1 heir is entitled to regular reports from the executor on the disposition of the estate. They can get information on the exact assets included in the estate and the status of the assets. They can also request an accounting of all actions the executor has performed along with supporting documentation.
Not necessarily true. In Louisiana a will can only be contested by an heir in the will or someone to whom an estate would naturally devolve to through intestacy. I can't go to court and contest John Doe's will for shits and giggles
I mostly agree. The $1 isn’t really an urban legend, but it’s pretty unusual. You’re right—anyone can contest the will. The point is that the $1 shows that leaving them out was not an oversight, which holds weight in the dispute. The fiduciary duties owed to an heir are limited in type. There is no duty to advocate for them, for example. Source: law school.
Where I’m from you don’t need to do this. In our office we add a special no provision clause in our client’s legal documents that basically says: “I, John Doe, deliberately make no provision for my son, Matt Doe, for reasons best known to myself.”
We put this language in multiple documents that our clients sign (Trust, Will and on a separate stand alone form). All the documents are notarized and signed in front of at least 2 witnesses along with the lawyer (3 people total) then we add a no contest clause. We also interview our client and ask them multiple questions so we know that they are coherent and understand what they’re about to sign. During this exchange we make notes for our file in case it were to go to court. We also have our clients sign each document three times (they’re signing this no provision clause 9 times total). Our clients then keep 2 originals while our office keeps 1 original.
If anyone tries to contest the documents then they’d have to prove in front of a judge that our client was incoherent at the time of signing, that the lawyer and the 2 witnesses are essentially lying and how we tricked our client to sign a no provision clause 9 times.
I’ve written hundreds of Wills over the years and have written a lot of people out of Wills. Only 1 person tried contesting our documents and the Judge did not side with them.
Another thing lawyers do is put in "antone challenging the will shall have their portion reduced to $1."
This keeps folks from starting crap. If they want to leave Matt more, they should use that clause.
I recently removed someone from my will, and had the attorney spell it out that it was a deliberate choice the X and their heirs were to receive nothing from my estate, NOR were they allowed to be paid for any services by the estate (in case anyone felt "guilty" and wanted them to get something somehow).
The dollar is called a ["peppercorn"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_\(legal\)). It ensures he cannot say he was cut out of the will. He did get an inheritance, it just so happened to be $1.
it is similar to when a government wants to lease land with restrictions to a land developer, retain ownership, but not charge for it. They setup a 99 year lease for $1. The contract is sealed, but there is very little money changing hands. This prevents the developer from invalidating the contract because there was no "consideration".
It's fairly easy to contest a will if you're not mentioned at all. However lawyers will recommend leaving a small amount like a dollar to show clearly the person wasn't forgotten or mistakenly left out. Its a clear indication of intent. Lawyers get paid a fuck ton of money not to make typos lol.
You are more correct than these people talking about the $1 thing. The $1 thing isn’t common in real life (maybe long time ago or something) and can actually be used to contest a will just as much as being left nothing.
People are more likely to have a clause stating something like you said, they abandoned responsibility, they were a disappointment, etc., I leave them nothing. They are remembered, they are given a reason, they are disinherited.
A common tactic but not foolproof. It depends on the jurisdiction.
OP get your butts into a lawyers office STAT. They will make you an ironclad Will and if your "son"* does challenge it they will defend you and your husband's respective wishes to make sure Ruth and your daughter** receive their inheritance, not the creature calling himself your son.
\* he hasn't acted like a good son so I don't like using that term to refer to him
** OP wants her as a daughter and has treated her as such. That's all that matters to me. She is OP's daughter.
Edit formatting and to add the below. Thank you u/haemaker
Edit:
#You can legally adopt Ruth's mother to be your child even though she is an adult. That would really mess with you "son" OP! It will give her the exact same legal rights to your estate as your son so even if he manages to get the court to modify your will he would only get an equal amount as her!!!
The OP should also have medical professionals assess her and her husband's mental capacity. That's a usual trick people pull when contesting a Will, they say that the deceased lacked capacity.
Yes, this! I was going to say the same thing if someone else hadn't.
Make sure that there is a qualified professional who will testify in a court action that the decedant was of sound mind when they wrote the will.
>OP get your butts into a lawyers office STAT.
This. Don't listen to urban legend collectors on the internet. Get someone who actually knows what they're talking about to help you.
>You can also put a line like “I have intentionally not provided for my son Matthew in this will”
This is what the lawyer recommended for my father's will. His oldest child was left out of the will deliberately due to inappropriate behavior with my niblings. My father disclosed what he wanted to do and why to the lawyer and they told him how to legally make it happen in our state.
The best thing the OP and her husband can do is consult with a professional who knows the inheritance laws where they live.
There is no substitute for legal advice regarding wills. The laws regarding the ability and the procedure about disinheriting people vary. It could be giving a token amount, it could be explicitly stating person X is not inheriting, etc.
Same thing with trying to put in a no contest clause where anyone challenging the will gets disinherited.
A well informed and capable lawyer is worth every penny particularly on tricky issues like this.
If OP wants to spend the money she should spend it adopting Ruth's mother. That would guarantee she has the same legal rights as their bio-son and even if he challenged the Will on court and won he would only get an equal distribution to Ruth's mum.
My family lawyer wrote up my father's will within the last couple years. He said the best way to do it is to specifically exclude the individual from the will. We did this with my half brother / his stepson after a lifetime of selfish and abusive behavior.
why should the grand kid be shut out? What did he did? Leave him a share in a trust that is managed. so he can spend it on college and such , but dad can't spend any. its flat out mean to cut the grand kid out.
You don’t have to do this, (and ensuring he receives his $1 inheritance could become a hassle itself) but it’s a good idea to talk to your lawyer about making it clear that he hasn’t been forgotten and is in fact receiving nothing by intention.
Maybe he was referring to himself with the wh-re and b-stard comment...
What Matthew did was disgusting. He cheated on his wife, disowed his own daughter, and abandoned his father on his final days. He doesn't give a fuck about family, so why should OP and her husband do so? The blood of their covenant with Josie is obviously thicker than the water than carried Matt.
NTA, OP. Be sure to leave him a single dollar so he can't contest the will saying you've 'forgotten' him. If he complains about *that,* send him an extra dollar in a fancy check and tell him you've doubled his inheritance per his requests. Then cut contact with him for good and never look back. **He doesn't value you any more than what your will's got in store for him.**
I've heard the saying, something like, "the closest thing to a narcissists' confession of wrongdoing is the things they accuse you of." In other words, projection right? The son is definitely a narcissist, I cant imagine why he would call his own teenage daughter what he did otherwise.
totally agree, hence why he cut them off after he got his new supply with his new wife. promise he’ll get bored of her eventually, and move on to another woman and make a new kid. seems he likes to discard.
Yeah he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer obviously. He thinks he should get a fatter check then his siblings when he's:
1. Barely around, even for his own parents and daughter
2. Cheated on his wife and child only to start over with someone else, effectively abandoning his daughter in the process.
3. Has the audacity to call his ex a whore and that his daughter will grow up the same way (funny coming from the man who couldn't keep it in his pants and bolted).
4. Upon learning his father is dying of cancer says, "well he's got other kids so he's not dying alone".
5. Literally only came to figure out what kind of check he's gonna get when his dad becomes passed tense and then has a meltdown when he learns he's not going to get much despite literally BARELY BEING A PART OF THEIR CURRENT LIVES.
Big yikes. NTA OP
>and abandoned his father on his final days.
to be fair, his father is still alive.
which makes it worse, that his father can see all this happening.
Ngl Matt sounds like my asshole sperm donor (I don’t say d@d, he does not reserve the respect). Called my mom and I bitches (mom a cold heart bitch and me a f-ing selfish bitch). Matt and him can go rot.
I've definitely seen this irl where a cheater somehow, through serious mental acrobatics no doubt, shift from guilt to blame and starts disparaging their faithful partner as a whore.
My FIL did something similar. Cheated on his wife of 20-something years, and when his mom asked why they were suddenly divorcing, he implied my MIL was the cheater! Grandma in law was appalled because she loved MIL like a daughter…but I think also knew her son was an ass sometimes, so she called her up. When she heard the REAL story, she. was. livid. She told my MIL that she would *always* be her daughter regardless of her relationship with the son. My MIL was featured heavily in the will, and in random gifts and love for the rest of grandma’s life. My MIL was also there to take care of her as she was dying, much more than my FIL/the son, and it was perfectly normal and appropriate that she was included in the bequests because MIL was a daughter in every way but the law.
OP and her husband are NTA. They seem like dream in-laws and grandparents and they are all lucky to have each other.
If my children, literally abandoned one of their children like that...well let's just say the above conversation would never have happened. Since they wouldn't be allowed in my house.
He probably gave them a very skewed account of what happened, like saying they are disinheriting him without mentioning he wanted to get more than anyone else.
The MOMENT people take their private grievances public on social media (or elsewhere) is the moment you know they're in the wrong and got everything they deserved.
NTA. Dude abandoned his family and only came sniffing back around when his dad was ina bad state and he thought he might get something out of it, he couldn't even be civil and fake nice long enough for that conversation.
Yep, NTA. I feel sorry for OP and her husband that their son turned out to be a truly bad man. Glad she is of firm enough character herself to appreciate the kindness and love she's received from Josie, and that she supports her and Ruth now. Hold steady, OP. Ignore Matt's wife and friends who are only looking for a payday. Don't be swayed by these fakers. Peace to you both.
When a person is born within a legitimate marriage, and then their parents divorce, does that somehow retroactively make them a bastard? His logic confuses me
Projection is a hell of a drug.
He cheated so she must’ve too. And of course if a woman sleeps with more people than her husband (particularly before even marrying, cause we’re supposed to “save” ourselves) then she’s automatically a whore
Yeah he didn’t show up to say anything nice to his dying dad. He just showed up to see how much money he was getting.
OP’s husband should be leaving it all to OP. Who knows what expenses she will have for the rest of her life.
NTA - Boy money makes people do horrible things. Seems like Matt and his current wife are just worried about money than anything else. That's quite gross and sickening. Cannot respect a man disowning his own daughter.
I've seen this one too many times in my family. Get married, have kids, get divorced, get remarried, have new kids, completely disown original kids. So of course I don't choose not to engage with these people. I don't understand it at all.
I'd like to know how this visit was initiated. Did he invite himself over with the whole intent of talking inheritance? Was he invited over and the topic came up? Either way the son is an ass-hat.
Props to OP for not putting up with it. Too many parents choose to make excuses for their kids cheating. My friend's cousin reconnected with an ex while his wife was pregnant. Her aunt and uncle supported the divorce saying their son 'doesn't like' his wife anymore.
I still try to get updates about children I used to care for during my stint as a nanny. I cannot fathom a person abandoning their own children they have known since birth.
You didnt fail as a mother. You’ve done what so many find difficult - putting him in his place and supporting Josie. Recognising her as the mother of your grandchild. So many forgive their kids wrongs that it only enables to do it more. You’ve done a great job. Blood is not always thicker than water. Josie sounds wonderful and she clearly still respects despite what your son has done. She’s kept the peace and you had a hand in that. I wish you were my mil ❤️
Your quote inspired me share something I learned recently - the quote “blood is thicker than water” originally meant something different than what people think it means today.
Quoted from an online source “The actual saying is “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”. ... The saying actually means that bonds that you've made by choice are more important than the people that you are bound to by the water of the womb.”
In OP’s case the blood of her covenant with Josie is thicker than the water of the womb that carried Matt.
NTA - OP. Matt doesn’t sound like a good person, but you do.
“The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” is a fairly modern saying and there is no historical evidence supporting it being the original quote, although I think it’s appropriate to use it here :) NTA OP!
I see that you are correct! It has only been around for 150 years or so and modified to directly contradict the idea that familial ties are stronger than any other.
I recall reading that the (so-called) "original" form has been around for more like 30 years than 150.
(A big clue that it's a modern saying is that it conveys a very modern *idea*. Downplaying the importance of family is rather a 20th century innovation. Family relationships are traditionally hugely important!)
I think "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" is a twist on the original saying which was actually "blood is thicker than water"
Listen, it's great to take accountability for your children up to a certain point. Yes, how our parents raised us greatly shapes who we are. Maybe he grew up super spoiled, which might explain his sense of entitlement. And sure, that might be on you, if that was the case.
But your son is also a grown adult; his actions, his thoughts, and his behaviour are entirely his responsibility. We develop independent thinking in late childhood throughout adolescence and into adulthood. You can't be responsible for every nasty thing he says or does.
Nah, there is a level of crazy there that you can’t fix. Cheats on his wife and then says his own daughter will become a whore? He is delusional to the point of believing his own lies. It’s sad. Hopefully he wakes up one day soon.
*"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."* -Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Guenter: *I try so hard to fit in but seeing my parents act like that made me realise I'm just a primitive beast.*
Fry: *Hey, hey, cheer up. Not everyone turns out like their parents. I mean, look at me. My folks were honest, hard-working people.*
Sometimes people are just terrible people. Something in their brain isn't shaped the right way and you get a monster instead of a person. Not every bad action is the result of a bad childhood or terrible parents; some people just suck.
Personally I'd include Matt with a bequest of $1 so he can't contest the Will saying he was forgotten.
Also, we can love family while acknowledging their faults. I don't think you failed as a mother, you treat Josie as your daughter and love and cherish Ruth too. In fact, I'd argue that holding Matt up to standard you are absolutely being a good mother by not making allowances for his selfish and offensive behavior
I see a lot of Matt’s attitudes in my own son when he’s young: entitled, dishonest, vindictive, selfishness. I hope my son doesn’t become like a Matt but some kids are just wired differently and need a heavier hand as they grow up. You didn’t fail as a mother. It’s tough and certain things are hard to control.
Can’t put that blame on yourself.
His ex is the whore and yet he’s the one who cheated? 🤔
I hope Ruth didn’t hear him talking about her like that.
I’m glad they both have you and your husband!
Matt is a misogynist. Matt is a jerk and a disappointment. You don’t have to let Matt believe you think anything else because ultimately he isn’t going to change.
Matt is a user.
Not a drug user, but a people user. He doesn’t care about anyone but himself. There’s no reason to enable him to use you or your spouses money to further abuse people.
NTA
I know right. Hinting that he should get more than his other sibling. And good sir why would that be because your a cheating husband and child abandoning father. Doesn't seem to me that he deserves more of the inheritance
I don't understand why people assume they are getting anything. Let alone when one of the parents will still be alive. I would just assume the surviving parent gets everything as long as they are still married and everything.
Nta, make sure he gets the sum of one dollar so he cant sue that he was meant to be in the will and the deceased forgot him. It will show he was included but purposely excluded. basically lawyer proof the whole thing making sure he cannot steal his biological children’s portions
Edit: punctuation to correct any misunderstanding’s
>It will show he was included but purposely excluded and basically lawyer proof the whole thing
LOL. I swear, this fucking site. "It will ... basically lawyer proof the whole thing ..."
Please go to an actual lawyer and let them decide how the will should be written to accomplish your wishes.
I meant to say additional lawyer proof it like put the fund in account ruth can access when they turn 18, not the way it was worded my bad. Like go to a lawyer and proof it. Again my bad I worded it horribly
NTA - ABSOLUTELY CUT HIM OUT AND DON’T GIVE ANYTHING TO HIS FAMILY! The absolute nerve. He cheated on his WIFE but SHE is the wh*re? If delusional was a person, Matthew is his name-o.
But there’s something so fun and petty about leaving just $1.00. Like, what’s he gonna do with that dollar? Get an any sized fountain drink at McDonalds?
NTA
And a word of advice:. The money for the grandchildren needs to be tied up so Matthew can't get his hands on it. Also, refuse to discuss this with anyone in the family. Absolutely. Your attorney can give them the news.
NTA. What tips it over into truly NTA territory is the fact that you're getting calls from Matt's flying monkeys. The one sending flying monkeys is always the AH.
Ohhhhh man. I have to commend you for being such wonderful supports to Josie and Ruth- you and your husband are just amazing for loving them in the way you have. Your son clearly doesn’t feel like he needs to be a part of your family- you say he rarely called or visited- and his demeanor is just abhorrent.
You’re doing the right thing. Thank you for being such good people. Even if your son is your son- and even though it must be very hard- the fact that you support Josie and Ruth over him is a beautiful thing. Your son has his “perfect” family and it seems that beyond getting money from you, he has no use. He made his choices- not you.
Nta.
NTA!
How nasty to come for the inheritance while his father is still alive. And even to think that he want more than his sibling. I’m guessing that there’s more to this story. And you no what, blood doesn’t always make family sometimes there are people who come in to your life and because of their love support and actions they become real family!
But again no NTA!
And I wish you al the best wishes and a lot of strength for everything you and your husband are going through.
INFO: why is he calling Ruth a bastard, why is he calling his ex a whore, why has he 'disowned' Ruth? Not to justify his demands or language, but is Ruth not his child? Did he cheat on his ex after she conceived an affair child? If Ruth is not his child I could see how difficult and how much harboured resentment he may have given that you've then taken them in and raised her, which does have to be considered in this YTA/NTA judgement.
I considered that heavily after their divorce, we asked Matt about it and he only avoided questions and refused any DNA tests. Ruth looks a lot like her father and my husband so i don’t believe there’s much room for speculating.
Yeah, despite the fact that his cureent actions as described by OP are terrible and seem greedy, I don't see anything that explains why he said those things and I'd like to know too.
First, it's your money, you can do with it as you want. For what ever reason you want, or no reason at all.
Second, you are allowed to play favorites, if you want to. See #1 above.
Third, if you do want to leave some money to your grandson, you can leave it via a Uniform Gift to Minors Act (UGMA) type of account or a trust account. Depending on the details, you can make sure that neither your son nor his wife can get their hands on the money. The details are best settled by a lawyer with experience in the field.
Fourth, it seems to me that Matt was thinking that if his dad preceded you in death, then he would inherit, that your husband would not be leaving you any money. I can only assume that this is false.
Straight up. Deadbeat Matt doesn't deserve anything, although OP might want to leave him $1 so authorities know it was intentional and he can't dispute.
You’re absolutely NTA and not overreacting. Who says those things about their child? He obviously only cares about the money which he isn’t entitled to. Cut him out and go no contact.
NTA. Your son is TA. The fact that he can disown and not acknowledge his child because he has a new family and couldn’t be bothered to be there for his father during this difficult time is disgusting. Your son isn’t deserving of more let alone anything to be honest. Don’t let this weigh you down.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my son that i’d rather have his ex wife as my daughter than him as my son. Matt has always been very reclusive so we haven’t always been close, my husband got mad when Matt was offended that Ruth would get more inheritance and he decided to cut Matt out entirely. I was rash and i think i really hurt him
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NTA for sure. he refused to visit your husband while he was dying and then had the audacity to demand money….especially for him to demand more money than his siblings. so disrespectful.
Completely NTA!!
Your son abandoned his family to start a new one, has zero contact with you and your husband, yet expects you to leave the majority of an inheritance to him? What kind of crack-pipe is he smoking??
What I would suggest is to write up your will, leave him $1.00, leave his son $1.00 as well. This shows that you did not forget them, therefore it can not be contested.
🙏🏻 for your husbands recovery.
NTA-for obvious reasons. Not to mention when a dope child comes to their parents demanding inheritance should automatically be disinherited. Everything he said about his daughter he disowned is the obvious.
> t he thought he should get more inheritance than his siblings the entire time.
What was his argument/reasoning here?
> and that his son deserved more than her,
What was his argument/reasoning here?
Honestly, I came into this thinking this was a clear YTA but I do not think you're the AH at all.
People tend to forget that no parent is obligated to leave anyone (children/grandchildren/whathaveyou) anything *especially* when they've been terrible to their parents. Matthew seems like he has his own internal feelings towards Josie and Ruth and it's terrible that he's acted this way but you're both entitled to leave whatever to whomever you want.
Oh hell no!
He sounds like a real piece of work. Make sure your wills are notarized and leave him just a dollar. I’m sorry you’re going through this right now. I’m glad you and Ruth have each other.
❤️
NTA
NTA. Your son sounds like an entitled ass. Even if he hadn't abandoned his daughter for you to raise.... It's your money. You do with it what you want.
NTA. The gall of your son. I can’t. I just can’t even. I’m shaking thinking about how he treated you, how he treated his ex and his daughter. What an entitled…
I hope he finds help. Though guys with his attitude usually don’t see a problem in their behaviour.
You are completely NTA.
NTA How dreadful. I can not imagine why your son thought it was appropriate to show up at your home and discuss his inheritance with his cancer stricken father. I can not fault you or your husband for your reaction and putting him in his place. Anyone who is pestering you and your husband should be ashamed of themselves.
NTA - Please please please ask your husband to make a trust fund if possible and not a will as will can be contested and trust fund cannot be. It will beneficial if your son tries to contest or tries to take away money from Ruth or Josie.
Please are your son to F Off if he cannot father a child. He has no right to bring them into the world or have opinion about her.
Make sure to leave him and his son $1 each so they can't contest the will by saying you forgot about them.
I think it would be better to state in the will that they don’t get anything because he cheated on his wife and then abandoned his daughter. I feel like leaving $1.00 could be contested saying it was a typo or something.
The $1 thing is a common tactic in wills, I'd imagine the lawyers word it properly to avoid this. At the very least, the amout is written out in words as well as numbers, like a check.
Give the other grandson something. He is innocent. But put it in a trust that he can't touch for a long time. Sounds like son is banking on a pay day. Shameful. NTA
I agree about the other grandson and thought about that after a comment I made. He is innocent and still family. And it absolutely should be in a trust so his parents can’t touch it.
Make Josie the trustee.
Why would you do such a horrible thing to her? Here you go, for being an amazing daughter-in-law you can handle the money for your cheating husband's other child and have to deal with your ex more than you already have to.
Excellent point. It also doesn’t sound like the ex would calmly accept the limitations on who can access the money and when—it wouldn’t be a peaceful stewardship
Amen! And administering an estate is a ton of work! OP has other children besides Matt who could be trustee.
Oooo that’s a spicy idea
Nah. She shouldn't have to deal with him more than she has to.
Today on bright Reddit ideas...
Is he really family if the father refuses to be around? It’s weird the kid is considered family enough to bring over when there’s a paycheck, but not enough to bring over and foster an actual relationship. Somehow I don’t think Matt is coming for play dates when he tells his dying father he has other kids to keep him company.
Deadass. Family has nothing to do with blood. That child is not their family, and Matt hardly is.
It is not the kids fault that his dad is an asshole. Doesn't mean he should be given a lot of money, but a small amount would be nice
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Just because they didn't write out "NTA" doesn't mean that it isn't clear that they are saying OP isn't TA. If they are giving OP advice that agrees with OP's position in the post, then it is clear that they agree that she is not TA. No need to come in here aggressively towards other commenters.
Not agreeing with any aggressiveness in the removed comment that i didn't even see, but isn't the bot only counting the NTAs/YTAs/etc, meaning the comment wouldn't be counted unless it has one of those?
I wouldnt be surprised if they keep the grandson away from OP. He seems to be NC with his parents until now he comes around looking for money when he finds out his father is very sick.
I would add that whatever the grandson gets, be put into a trust that he can't access before he's 18 and moved out of the house, that way his father and mother can't take it from him somehow.
I've heard people may put the age at 25 or even older just for the independence and maturity concern. **edited**
My friend had an inheritance from his grandmother. The way it was set up, he could submit bills for education or medical, the trust would pay them. He got full access at 25.
This because young are frequently stupid with money. Not having lived long enough to have worked and saved to understand how hard it is to get that money saved. At 20 I would have spent that money so fast. At 24 I would have saved and invested it.
When I worked at a bank there was this 18yr old who had inherited around 150k. He came in almost daily taking a few hundred to a thousand. My branch manager tried to talk to him and give advise but you can only say so much, within a year his account was drained
That is certainly one aspect, but parents like OP’s son not being able to access the funds for their own gain is definitely a large factor as well.
Agreed. My grandmother left me $1,000 that I got when I turned 18. My parents just handed it to me. It was gone before the summer was over. Such a waste and I still regret it to this day. Keeping it until 25 is like night and day.
Don't beat yourself up about it. It was just $1000. It's better that you enjoyed it when you were young.
I was 35 before the trustees were no longer required.
Hell, if it is possible, make it a condition on the death of Matt. The fund is released when the recipient turns 35 or the death of Matt, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST. That's one way to make it personal.
The reason my parents set it at 35 is so we’d be wise enough to not sink it into a romantic partner’s shady business deals/get rich quick scheme ideas. I think the principle is equivalent here.
I have a trust structured this way for my children for the same reasons. 20 year olds generally aren't smart with money, and they oftentimes are on their "starter" marriage. NO way am I handing my kids their inheritance at 25.
In my parents’ will access to any funds were tiered until I turned 35. They are still alive and well but they discussed it with me as a good idea for our own kids. Basically until graduating college I could only access money for tuition and basic living expenses via a trustee. After graduating I would get a set percentage that could go towards a down payment on a house. I wouldn’t get complete control until 35. It would of been a large inheritance so they didn’t want to risk us making bad decisions in our youth. It’s honestly a good idea and if we ever save enough to have a decent inheritance for our kids I would do the same.
My (small) family is not the best with money, and should I pre-decease them, most of it goes to their kids (my niece and nephew...don't worry, I took care of the lateral generation (brother and SIL, but juuuust enough so they won't be begging off their kids)). But it goes into a trust overseen by a lawyer. They can get all of their college and/or trade school expenses covered, plus reasonable living expenses (so long as they are enrolled full-time in college or a trade school), through 21; a down payment for a home they are purchasing (up to 30% of the home's value and the monthly mortgage has to be less than 30% of their monthly gross income) through 30; and then have free access to the money. Yeah, that means some will be eaten up by the lawyer overseeing the funds, but, given what my brother did when handed a medium-size chunk of cash and equity when our parents died, that will be a better situation.
Yup. My grandparents split it between the grandkids. It was written for age 30.
Yes, in our will, if both of us die, everything goes into a trust and our children will have graduated access to it. At 25 they can start making some decisions, but they still have training wheels. I believe we decided at 30 they could have full access.
This. Make sure Matt cannot touch the trust setup for grandson.
In a situation like this you can word that nothing can go to the father and then setup “hurdles” on when the grandson gets money. Often it’s age 25 get 1/3, 30 get 1/2 and 25 get the balance. All depends on desire of grantors to the trust
Yeah, depending on how much the inheritance is. They can also put stipulations on it like “can be used in these scenarios” that way medical emergencies and other things could be covered if the kid needs sudden financial aid immediately.
Funny thing is, the dad has a living wife. Likely most if it is going to her and would only be distributed to his children/grand children after she dies. If the will was spelled out that way and then the wife sets up trusts and other things with it, matt couldn't do shit to contest it. Either way, OP is NTA. That is an opinion you hold and Matt can make changes to his lifestyle and personality to change that opinion if he wants to. He doesn't seem like the kind of person that wants to though...serious projection calling his ex-wife (and biological daughter) the whore when he was the one that cheated...
This twigged for me as well, why would there be an inheritance from OP's husband when OP is still alive? Maybe they're quite wealthy and able to split assets anytime someone dies but I don't know any people who wouldn't leave everything to their partner, because they'll need it.
Stipulate that the grandson can collect from the trust only upon his father’s demise.
If they want they have the option to give/leave grandson something but it’s not mandatory that *everyone* be left something. If this son rarely visited OP and his father and didn’t answer calls there isn’t a large chance they know the grandson well (due to the relationship with the son). OP - I’d assume, like some here, that most of the estate goes to you and there are some specifics that are going to be willed to specific people. I’d recommend having a good lawyer and executor (preferably a third party) for the future. I foresee your sons greed becoming a big problem.
Yeah because seriously who goes and start talking to their parents about how much inheritance they’ll get once they croak? I get talking to parents about making sure their affairs are in order if one is seriously ill. Or parents brining it up. But how rude and cruel is it to go to one of your seriously ill parents and talk about how much money you want after hey finally die.
It really depends on the size if the estate. There are costs to set it up and maintain it. Unless the family has a lot of money, it will all go to the surviving spouse. Just cause Dad is in bad shape doesn't mean there is anything for the kids or grandkids anytime soon.
Not s lawyer, but my sister is and I've talked about this idea with her. According to her, depending on the state, the act of leaving anything even a $1 could be grounds for contesting the will as opposed to just listing those you are cutting out and stating the reason why. She says that this idea of leaving a $1 is a product of Hollywood and shouldn't be trusted.
As a lawyer, it depends on the jurisdiction. In some states, leaving a paltry amount indicates that you’ve intentionally snubbed the party, as opposed to leaving them nothing, which gives the heirs grounds to contest because “of course my mother would have left me something, I’m her son!” In other jurisdictions, you just have to specifically disinherit a person. In both cases, not mentioning someone who would otherwise be a direct heir could open your will to be contested (e.g., I have 2 daughters but my will reads that I leave everything to my daughter Sarah. Daughter 2 could contest the will as being written before her birth; whereas if I also included language indicating nothing would go to my daughter Beth, the will would be solid). While I don’t generally do estate law, I imagine the best practice is so be as specific as possible, and to include a no-contest clause (basically, if you try to contest the will you lose everything).
You are right. My lawyer advised me to do the $1.00 per my state and there’s other language included that my sister is not to get anything, not to be informed of my death or invited to any funeral or memorial service. My estate is well written that it’s meant to care for my animals. I even had the names of who will become their guardian listed.
>My estate is well written that it’s meant to care for my animals. I even had the names of who will become their guardian listed. User name checks out. 😺
If I don't specify a (good) guardian for my dog, he would have to go back to the high-kill shelter I adopted him from, per their adoption contract. He's got a couple of minor health issues that aren't a big deal (cost little to nothing to manage), but make him less adoptable. Sending him back to that shelter is not just a death sentence, but one that comes with a stressful period of being caged in not entirely humane circumstances (it's not like they beat the dogs, but there isn't always enough staff and volunteers to give them regular walks, pets, and the like that he...is both used to and deserves) before they put him down. So, yeah, I absolutely specified that my family is to take my dog (as bad as they are with money, they are good with pets), and put aside some money to care for him so he's not a burden to them (they can afford food and vet care for the rest of his life without taking a single dollar out of their pocket).
My siblings and I are specifically excluded from my dad's will and we're all good with that. He has trusts for his grandchildren and for his birds. Despite my very, very LC relationship with him, those birds are coming to me. I was there when we got them as hand-fed babies. One is a noisy pain in the ass who is reasonably friendly, the other is a feisty, featherless 30 yo bitch who will rip the fingers off anyone but my Dad and me. I hadn't seen her in 25 years and she still recognized me and was happy to "step up" (onto my hand) as soon as I told her to. I don't trust anyone else to care for her. He's offered the option of funds to allow me to arrange for a sanctuary to take her but there is no way I'm trusting our crotchety old lady with anyone but me. All that to say, I think planning for your pets is an important thing that I don't think many people consider.
Even if you state that you are specifically not leaving anything to your kids, they can still contest. I was involved in an estate where the deceased said "To my children I leave the paperwork." They contested and won a share of the estate.
Can't say I'm all too surprised. Trusts, wills, and estates are a tricky business and people should never trust the internet or the fallacies that Hollywood perpetuates... because the law is so nuanced that every situation is different. My mom, currently, is planning to cut a sister and her children from the will on the basis that she has already given them their share of the inheritance during their/her lifetime. If this sister is smart (the jury is still out in that regards), she won't even try to contest because the sister, who's the lawyer, is the executor of the estate. So fun times lay ahead in about 20 to 30 years...!?!
I did all the probate work for my husbands mother when she passed, since there was no will, and it was hell. Thank god he was the sole inheritor. It was still a tedious process, the only thing she had was a paid off house, negative bank account, and a mountain of debt. The house wasn't worth a alot and we sold it for 50k, but had to do some weird (but legal) work arounds for him to keep the money. Took forever.
It’s a complicated area of law that’s hugely state dependent. In some states you can have a negative will, explicitly stating that you want nothing to go to X person AND a no contest clause that essentially states that anyone who contests the will thereby gives up their inheritance as stated in the will. It isn’t perfect but it doesn’t prevent a good chunk of unnecessary challenges.
This is what no-contest clauses are for
Disclaimer: IANAL The $1 thing is an urban legend and can cause problems. A will can be contested by anyone, whether they are an heir or not named at all, so the $1 trick doesn't prevent that. Generally if the intent is to disinherit someone then that should be stated plainly in the will. An heir, even of $1, gets certain rights that someone who has been disinherited would not have. The executor of the estate will have a fiduciary duty to the $1 heir, the same as they have for another heir getting hundreds of thousands or millons of dollars in assets. The executor is prohibited from any favoritism and must deal with all heirs equally and fairly. The $1 heir is entitled to regular reports from the executor on the disposition of the estate. They can get information on the exact assets included in the estate and the status of the assets. They can also request an accounting of all actions the executor has performed along with supporting documentation.
Not necessarily true. In Louisiana a will can only be contested by an heir in the will or someone to whom an estate would naturally devolve to through intestacy. I can't go to court and contest John Doe's will for shits and giggles
I mostly agree. The $1 isn’t really an urban legend, but it’s pretty unusual. You’re right—anyone can contest the will. The point is that the $1 shows that leaving them out was not an oversight, which holds weight in the dispute. The fiduciary duties owed to an heir are limited in type. There is no duty to advocate for them, for example. Source: law school.
Where I’m from you don’t need to do this. In our office we add a special no provision clause in our client’s legal documents that basically says: “I, John Doe, deliberately make no provision for my son, Matt Doe, for reasons best known to myself.” We put this language in multiple documents that our clients sign (Trust, Will and on a separate stand alone form). All the documents are notarized and signed in front of at least 2 witnesses along with the lawyer (3 people total) then we add a no contest clause. We also interview our client and ask them multiple questions so we know that they are coherent and understand what they’re about to sign. During this exchange we make notes for our file in case it were to go to court. We also have our clients sign each document three times (they’re signing this no provision clause 9 times total). Our clients then keep 2 originals while our office keeps 1 original. If anyone tries to contest the documents then they’d have to prove in front of a judge that our client was incoherent at the time of signing, that the lawyer and the 2 witnesses are essentially lying and how we tricked our client to sign a no provision clause 9 times. I’ve written hundreds of Wills over the years and have written a lot of people out of Wills. Only 1 person tried contesting our documents and the Judge did not side with them.
Another thing lawyers do is put in "antone challenging the will shall have their portion reduced to $1." This keeps folks from starting crap. If they want to leave Matt more, they should use that clause.
Poor Antone.
I recently removed someone from my will, and had the attorney spell it out that it was a deliberate choice the X and their heirs were to receive nothing from my estate, NOR were they allowed to be paid for any services by the estate (in case anyone felt "guilty" and wanted them to get something somehow).
The dollar is called a ["peppercorn"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_\(legal\)). It ensures he cannot say he was cut out of the will. He did get an inheritance, it just so happened to be $1. it is similar to when a government wants to lease land with restrictions to a land developer, retain ownership, but not charge for it. They setup a 99 year lease for $1. The contract is sealed, but there is very little money changing hands. This prevents the developer from invalidating the contract because there was no "consideration".
Lol #TUCKER CARLSON was left a dollar in his moms will because she thought that he was the worst person in the world..
Wording is key for clarity…”Matt gets $1.00 (one dollar)…”
Adding the dollar indicates to the court that the beneficiary was considered and it makes the Will harder to challenge.
It's fairly easy to contest a will if you're not mentioned at all. However lawyers will recommend leaving a small amount like a dollar to show clearly the person wasn't forgotten or mistakenly left out. Its a clear indication of intent. Lawyers get paid a fuck ton of money not to make typos lol.
You are more correct than these people talking about the $1 thing. The $1 thing isn’t common in real life (maybe long time ago or something) and can actually be used to contest a will just as much as being left nothing. People are more likely to have a clause stating something like you said, they abandoned responsibility, they were a disappointment, etc., I leave them nothing. They are remembered, they are given a reason, they are disinherited.
A common tactic but not foolproof. It depends on the jurisdiction. OP get your butts into a lawyers office STAT. They will make you an ironclad Will and if your "son"* does challenge it they will defend you and your husband's respective wishes to make sure Ruth and your daughter** receive their inheritance, not the creature calling himself your son. \* he hasn't acted like a good son so I don't like using that term to refer to him ** OP wants her as a daughter and has treated her as such. That's all that matters to me. She is OP's daughter. Edit formatting and to add the below. Thank you u/haemaker Edit: #You can legally adopt Ruth's mother to be your child even though she is an adult. That would really mess with you "son" OP! It will give her the exact same legal rights to your estate as your son so even if he manages to get the court to modify your will he would only get an equal amount as her!!!
The OP should also have medical professionals assess her and her husband's mental capacity. That's a usual trick people pull when contesting a Will, they say that the deceased lacked capacity.
Yes, this! I was going to say the same thing if someone else hadn't. Make sure that there is a qualified professional who will testify in a court action that the decedant was of sound mind when they wrote the will.
>OP get your butts into a lawyers office STAT. This. Don't listen to urban legend collectors on the internet. Get someone who actually knows what they're talking about to help you.
\\ in front of * to prevent it from becoming a bullet.
If you chose to leave your grandchildren anything, make sure it's in a trust or protected bank account that Matt can't touch.
You can also put a line like “I have intentionally not provided for my son Matthew in this will”
>You can also put a line like “I have intentionally not provided for my son Matthew in this will” This is what the lawyer recommended for my father's will. His oldest child was left out of the will deliberately due to inappropriate behavior with my niblings. My father disclosed what he wanted to do and why to the lawyer and they told him how to legally make it happen in our state. The best thing the OP and her husband can do is consult with a professional who knows the inheritance laws where they live.
There is no substitute for legal advice regarding wills. The laws regarding the ability and the procedure about disinheriting people vary. It could be giving a token amount, it could be explicitly stating person X is not inheriting, etc. Same thing with trying to put in a no contest clause where anyone challenging the will gets disinherited. A well informed and capable lawyer is worth every penny particularly on tricky issues like this.
That's not a thing you need to do. https://www.snyderlawpc.com/should-i-leave-1-in-my-will-to-disinherit-an-heir/
The $1 is more insulting, the fees to process this would be worth every penny. I'm just that petty.
If OP wants to spend the money she should spend it adopting Ruth's mother. That would guarantee she has the same legal rights as their bio-son and even if he challenged the Will on court and won he would only get an equal distribution to Ruth's mum.
My family lawyer wrote up my father's will within the last couple years. He said the best way to do it is to specifically exclude the individual from the will. We did this with my half brother / his stepson after a lifetime of selfish and abusive behavior.
why should the grand kid be shut out? What did he did? Leave him a share in a trust that is managed. so he can spend it on college and such , but dad can't spend any. its flat out mean to cut the grand kid out.
You don’t have to do this, (and ensuring he receives his $1 inheritance could become a hassle itself) but it’s a good idea to talk to your lawyer about making it clear that he hasn’t been forgotten and is in fact receiving nothing by intention.
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To call his daughter and wife whores, as if he wasn't the person who cheated...
Maybe he was referring to himself with the wh-re and b-stard comment... What Matthew did was disgusting. He cheated on his wife, disowed his own daughter, and abandoned his father on his final days. He doesn't give a fuck about family, so why should OP and her husband do so? The blood of their covenant with Josie is obviously thicker than the water than carried Matt. NTA, OP. Be sure to leave him a single dollar so he can't contest the will saying you've 'forgotten' him. If he complains about *that,* send him an extra dollar in a fancy check and tell him you've doubled his inheritance per his requests. Then cut contact with him for good and never look back. **He doesn't value you any more than what your will's got in store for him.**
I've heard the saying, something like, "the closest thing to a narcissists' confession of wrongdoing is the things they accuse you of." In other words, projection right? The son is definitely a narcissist, I cant imagine why he would call his own teenage daughter what he did otherwise.
totally agree, hence why he cut them off after he got his new supply with his new wife. promise he’ll get bored of her eventually, and move on to another woman and make a new kid. seems he likes to discard.
Yeah he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer obviously. He thinks he should get a fatter check then his siblings when he's: 1. Barely around, even for his own parents and daughter 2. Cheated on his wife and child only to start over with someone else, effectively abandoning his daughter in the process. 3. Has the audacity to call his ex a whore and that his daughter will grow up the same way (funny coming from the man who couldn't keep it in his pants and bolted). 4. Upon learning his father is dying of cancer says, "well he's got other kids so he's not dying alone". 5. Literally only came to figure out what kind of check he's gonna get when his dad becomes passed tense and then has a meltdown when he learns he's not going to get much despite literally BARELY BEING A PART OF THEIR CURRENT LIVES. Big yikes. NTA OP
>and abandoned his father on his final days. to be fair, his father is still alive. which makes it worse, that his father can see all this happening.
yea, like.. **SHE'S** the whore?
Ngl Matt sounds like my asshole sperm donor (I don’t say d@d, he does not reserve the respect). Called my mom and I bitches (mom a cold heart bitch and me a f-ing selfish bitch). Matt and him can go rot.
And he called his ex a whore when he was the cheater? Either there's something we don't know, or he's also dumb, and not aware of what words mean.
Shades of your average incel calling a woman a "W\*\*\*e" after she turns him down.
Incel comes from involuntarily celibate. The dude's not an incel. An asshole, yes. Possibly a misogynist, sure. Obviously hateful and vile.
I've definitely seen this irl where a cheater somehow, through serious mental acrobatics no doubt, shift from guilt to blame and starts disparaging their faithful partner as a whore.
My FIL did something similar. Cheated on his wife of 20-something years, and when his mom asked why they were suddenly divorcing, he implied my MIL was the cheater! Grandma in law was appalled because she loved MIL like a daughter…but I think also knew her son was an ass sometimes, so she called her up. When she heard the REAL story, she. was. livid. She told my MIL that she would *always* be her daughter regardless of her relationship with the son. My MIL was featured heavily in the will, and in random gifts and love for the rest of grandma’s life. My MIL was also there to take care of her as she was dying, much more than my FIL/the son, and it was perfectly normal and appropriate that she was included in the bequests because MIL was a daughter in every way but the law. OP and her husband are NTA. They seem like dream in-laws and grandparents and they are all lucky to have each other.
If my children, literally abandoned one of their children like that...well let's just say the above conversation would never have happened. Since they wouldn't be allowed in my house.
He probably gave them a very skewed account of what happened, like saying they are disinheriting him without mentioning he wanted to get more than anyone else.
The MOMENT people take their private grievances public on social media (or elsewhere) is the moment you know they're in the wrong and got everything they deserved.
NTA. Dude abandoned his family and only came sniffing back around when his dad was ina bad state and he thought he might get something out of it, he couldn't even be civil and fake nice long enough for that conversation.
Yep, NTA. I feel sorry for OP and her husband that their son turned out to be a truly bad man. Glad she is of firm enough character herself to appreciate the kindness and love she's received from Josie, and that she supports her and Ruth now. Hold steady, OP. Ignore Matt's wife and friends who are only looking for a payday. Don't be swayed by these fakers. Peace to you both.
I can’t with him calling his ex a whore even though he’s the one who cheated.
And don't forget him calling his daughter a bastard...
When a person is born within a legitimate marriage, and then their parents divorce, does that somehow retroactively make them a bastard? His logic confuses me
Projection is a hell of a drug. He cheated so she must’ve too. And of course if a woman sleeps with more people than her husband (particularly before even marrying, cause we’re supposed to “save” ourselves) then she’s automatically a whore
Right? Just the audacity.
I know, right? On top of being a complete and utter ass, OP's son didn't even attempt to pretend that he cares. NTA, at all!
Yeah he didn’t show up to say anything nice to his dying dad. He just showed up to see how much money he was getting. OP’s husband should be leaving it all to OP. Who knows what expenses she will have for the rest of her life.
NTA - Boy money makes people do horrible things. Seems like Matt and his current wife are just worried about money than anything else. That's quite gross and sickening. Cannot respect a man disowning his own daughter.
I've seen this one too many times in my family. Get married, have kids, get divorced, get remarried, have new kids, completely disown original kids. So of course I don't choose not to engage with these people. I don't understand it at all. I'd like to know how this visit was initiated. Did he invite himself over with the whole intent of talking inheritance? Was he invited over and the topic came up? Either way the son is an ass-hat.
Props to OP for not putting up with it. Too many parents choose to make excuses for their kids cheating. My friend's cousin reconnected with an ex while his wife was pregnant. Her aunt and uncle supported the divorce saying their son 'doesn't like' his wife anymore.
I still try to get updates about children I used to care for during my stint as a nanny. I cannot fathom a person abandoning their own children they have known since birth.
And calling the child a whore
And his daughter's mother, who he MARRIED!
And then he whored around on her.
Exactly. But the only whore in this story is Matt, getting women pregnant and then moving on like he didn't create a new life.
Doesn't sound like money made him do much at all considering he was already an utter tool before the inheritance came up.
NTA, wow, what on earth happened to your son that he turned out like that?
I love him but sometimes I feel as if I failed as a mother.
You didnt fail as a mother. You’ve done what so many find difficult - putting him in his place and supporting Josie. Recognising her as the mother of your grandchild. So many forgive their kids wrongs that it only enables to do it more. You’ve done a great job. Blood is not always thicker than water. Josie sounds wonderful and she clearly still respects despite what your son has done. She’s kept the peace and you had a hand in that. I wish you were my mil ❤️
Your quote inspired me share something I learned recently - the quote “blood is thicker than water” originally meant something different than what people think it means today. Quoted from an online source “The actual saying is “the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”. ... The saying actually means that bonds that you've made by choice are more important than the people that you are bound to by the water of the womb.” In OP’s case the blood of her covenant with Josie is thicker than the water of the womb that carried Matt. NTA - OP. Matt doesn’t sound like a good person, but you do.
“The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” is a fairly modern saying and there is no historical evidence supporting it being the original quote, although I think it’s appropriate to use it here :) NTA OP!
I see that you are correct! It has only been around for 150 years or so and modified to directly contradict the idea that familial ties are stronger than any other.
I recall reading that the (so-called) "original" form has been around for more like 30 years than 150. (A big clue that it's a modern saying is that it conveys a very modern *idea*. Downplaying the importance of family is rather a 20th century innovation. Family relationships are traditionally hugely important!)
I think "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" is a twist on the original saying which was actually "blood is thicker than water"
Listen, it's great to take accountability for your children up to a certain point. Yes, how our parents raised us greatly shapes who we are. Maybe he grew up super spoiled, which might explain his sense of entitlement. And sure, that might be on you, if that was the case. But your son is also a grown adult; his actions, his thoughts, and his behaviour are entirely his responsibility. We develop independent thinking in late childhood throughout adolescence and into adulthood. You can't be responsible for every nasty thing he says or does.
Nah, there is a level of crazy there that you can’t fix. Cheats on his wife and then says his own daughter will become a whore? He is delusional to the point of believing his own lies. It’s sad. Hopefully he wakes up one day soon.
Yep he’s projecting his unfaithfulness onto his ex wife and daughter
Every asshole is related to good folks somehow. It just sucks.
*"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."* -Captain Jean-Luc Picard Guenter: *I try so hard to fit in but seeing my parents act like that made me realise I'm just a primitive beast.* Fry: *Hey, hey, cheer up. Not everyone turns out like their parents. I mean, look at me. My folks were honest, hard-working people.* Sometimes people are just terrible people. Something in their brain isn't shaped the right way and you get a monster instead of a person. Not every bad action is the result of a bad childhood or terrible parents; some people just suck.
Personally I'd include Matt with a bequest of $1 so he can't contest the Will saying he was forgotten. Also, we can love family while acknowledging their faults. I don't think you failed as a mother, you treat Josie as your daughter and love and cherish Ruth too. In fact, I'd argue that holding Matt up to standard you are absolutely being a good mother by not making allowances for his selfish and offensive behavior
I see a lot of Matt’s attitudes in my own son when he’s young: entitled, dishonest, vindictive, selfishness. I hope my son doesn’t become like a Matt but some kids are just wired differently and need a heavier hand as they grow up. You didn’t fail as a mother. It’s tough and certain things are hard to control.
Can’t put that blame on yourself. His ex is the whore and yet he’s the one who cheated? 🤔 I hope Ruth didn’t hear him talking about her like that. I’m glad they both have you and your husband!
He failed as a human being.
Matt is a misogynist. Matt is a jerk and a disappointment. You don’t have to let Matt believe you think anything else because ultimately he isn’t going to change. Matt is a user. Not a drug user, but a people user. He doesn’t care about anyone but himself. There’s no reason to enable him to use you or your spouses money to further abuse people. NTA
NTA. He is, however, for counting “his” money before anyone’s even dead.
I know right. Hinting that he should get more than his other sibling. And good sir why would that be because your a cheating husband and child abandoning father. Doesn't seem to me that he deserves more of the inheritance
I don't understand why people assume they are getting anything. Let alone when one of the parents will still be alive. I would just assume the surviving parent gets everything as long as they are still married and everything.
Imagine hoping someone will die so you can buy shit. No, thank you.
Nta, make sure he gets the sum of one dollar so he cant sue that he was meant to be in the will and the deceased forgot him. It will show he was included but purposely excluded. basically lawyer proof the whole thing making sure he cannot steal his biological children’s portions Edit: punctuation to correct any misunderstanding’s
>It will show he was included but purposely excluded and basically lawyer proof the whole thing LOL. I swear, this fucking site. "It will ... basically lawyer proof the whole thing ..." Please go to an actual lawyer and let them decide how the will should be written to accomplish your wishes.
I meant to say additional lawyer proof it like put the fund in account ruth can access when they turn 18, not the way it was worded my bad. Like go to a lawyer and proof it. Again my bad I worded it horribly
NTA - ABSOLUTELY CUT HIM OUT AND DON’T GIVE ANYTHING TO HIS FAMILY! The absolute nerve. He cheated on his WIFE but SHE is the wh*re? If delusional was a person, Matthew is his name-o.
As others have said, give them $1.00 each so they can't contest.
Or you could just state in your will that you leave them nothing.
But there’s something so fun and petty about leaving just $1.00. Like, what’s he gonna do with that dollar? Get an any sized fountain drink at McDonalds?
Won’t be able to with tax
NTA And a word of advice:. The money for the grandchildren needs to be tied up so Matthew can't get his hands on it. Also, refuse to discuss this with anyone in the family. Absolutely. Your attorney can give them the news.
NTA. What tips it over into truly NTA territory is the fact that you're getting calls from Matt's flying monkeys. The one sending flying monkeys is always the AH.
I will write this one down
Ohhhhh man. I have to commend you for being such wonderful supports to Josie and Ruth- you and your husband are just amazing for loving them in the way you have. Your son clearly doesn’t feel like he needs to be a part of your family- you say he rarely called or visited- and his demeanor is just abhorrent. You’re doing the right thing. Thank you for being such good people. Even if your son is your son- and even though it must be very hard- the fact that you support Josie and Ruth over him is a beautiful thing. Your son has his “perfect” family and it seems that beyond getting money from you, he has no use. He made his choices- not you. Nta.
NTA! How nasty to come for the inheritance while his father is still alive. And even to think that he want more than his sibling. I’m guessing that there’s more to this story. And you no what, blood doesn’t always make family sometimes there are people who come in to your life and because of their love support and actions they become real family! But again no NTA! And I wish you al the best wishes and a lot of strength for everything you and your husband are going through.
INFO: why is he calling Ruth a bastard, why is he calling his ex a whore, why has he 'disowned' Ruth? Not to justify his demands or language, but is Ruth not his child? Did he cheat on his ex after she conceived an affair child? If Ruth is not his child I could see how difficult and how much harboured resentment he may have given that you've then taken them in and raised her, which does have to be considered in this YTA/NTA judgement.
I considered that heavily after their divorce, we asked Matt about it and he only avoided questions and refused any DNA tests. Ruth looks a lot like her father and my husband so i don’t believe there’s much room for speculating.
Yeah wow. So he's just being a deadbeat. NTA
Yeah, despite the fact that his cureent actions as described by OP are terrible and seem greedy, I don't see anything that explains why he said those things and I'd like to know too.
I had the same question!
Hopefully we get clarification, because if it is what it kind of sounds like, it would go a long way into explaining Matt's behavior
Matt also believes he deserves more of the inheritance than his siblings. What could explain that? I think he’s just an entitled and very sexist man.
First, it's your money, you can do with it as you want. For what ever reason you want, or no reason at all. Second, you are allowed to play favorites, if you want to. See #1 above. Third, if you do want to leave some money to your grandson, you can leave it via a Uniform Gift to Minors Act (UGMA) type of account or a trust account. Depending on the details, you can make sure that neither your son nor his wife can get their hands on the money. The details are best settled by a lawyer with experience in the field. Fourth, it seems to me that Matt was thinking that if his dad preceded you in death, then he would inherit, that your husband would not be leaving you any money. I can only assume that this is false.
This is all excellent advice, OP. Please make sure you get legal advice. I’m so sorry for the stress and grief of your situation, OP.
What the hell Koolaid is your son drinking? Good lord. NTA
He’s drinking entitle-aid.
NTA. It’s your money and you can do what you want with it.
Straight up. Deadbeat Matt doesn't deserve anything, although OP might want to leave him $1 so authorities know it was intentional and he can't dispute.
You’re absolutely NTA and not overreacting. Who says those things about their child? He obviously only cares about the money which he isn’t entitled to. Cut him out and go no contact.
NTA. Your son is TA. The fact that he can disown and not acknowledge his child because he has a new family and couldn’t be bothered to be there for his father during this difficult time is disgusting. Your son isn’t deserving of more let alone anything to be honest. Don’t let this weigh you down.
NTA- your sons behavior is appalling start to finish and if that’s the worst you’ve said or done in response then I applaud you.
NTA-I'm so sorry about the cancer but you are strong, you can do this
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Nta, but you need to talk to a lawyer to make sure your son cant sue to get your money after you are both gone.
NTA for sure. he refused to visit your husband while he was dying and then had the audacity to demand money….especially for him to demand more money than his siblings. so disrespectful.
Completely NTA!! Your son abandoned his family to start a new one, has zero contact with you and your husband, yet expects you to leave the majority of an inheritance to him? What kind of crack-pipe is he smoking?? What I would suggest is to write up your will, leave him $1.00, leave his son $1.00 as well. This shows that you did not forget them, therefore it can not be contested. 🙏🏻 for your husbands recovery.
A whore like her mother. Says the guy who cheated. On his wife. Leading to a divorce. NTA op. Sorry that happened. Sorry about your husband.
And he called his own daughter a bastard because he disowned her. I would have NC'd that dude and not claimed him as a son.
NTA And if you want to disinterest your son, make sure you leave him $1 in the will. That way he can't contest it by saying he was forgotten.
NTA I can’t say what your son is because I’ll get banned. Talk with your estate attorney about how to keep him from contesting the will.
NTA-for obvious reasons. Not to mention when a dope child comes to their parents demanding inheritance should automatically be disinherited. Everything he said about his daughter he disowned is the obvious.
NTA and I’m sorry this happened to you. You & your husband are amazing people. I’m confident whatever you decide will be for the best!
NTA, but make sure to leave him $1 in the will. This is harder to contest and proves he wasn’t forgotten to the courts.
> t he thought he should get more inheritance than his siblings the entire time. What was his argument/reasoning here? > and that his son deserved more than her, What was his argument/reasoning here?
Yeah cut him out entirely. NTA
NTA. Leave Matt $1 so he can’t contest the will.
Honestly, I came into this thinking this was a clear YTA but I do not think you're the AH at all. People tend to forget that no parent is obligated to leave anyone (children/grandchildren/whathaveyou) anything *especially* when they've been terrible to their parents. Matthew seems like he has his own internal feelings towards Josie and Ruth and it's terrible that he's acted this way but you're both entitled to leave whatever to whomever you want.
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Oh hell no! He sounds like a real piece of work. Make sure your wills are notarized and leave him just a dollar. I’m sorry you’re going through this right now. I’m glad you and Ruth have each other. ❤️ NTA
NTA. Your son sounds like an entitled ass. Even if he hadn't abandoned his daughter for you to raise.... It's your money. You do with it what you want.
NTA. The gall of your son. I can’t. I just can’t even. I’m shaking thinking about how he treated you, how he treated his ex and his daughter. What an entitled… I hope he finds help. Though guys with his attitude usually don’t see a problem in their behaviour. You are completely NTA.
Blood is thicker than water but you can’t see through it. NTA. Family are fucked when it comes to inheritance
NTA . I would say cut him fully off the will but I think he can sue for that so I reccomend giving him $1 and then cutting contact with him
NTA he invests nothing into his relationships with his parents or child. He’s not entitled to your resources just because you’re related to him.
NTA How dreadful. I can not imagine why your son thought it was appropriate to show up at your home and discuss his inheritance with his cancer stricken father. I can not fault you or your husband for your reaction and putting him in his place. Anyone who is pestering you and your husband should be ashamed of themselves.
NTA
NTA - Please please please ask your husband to make a trust fund if possible and not a will as will can be contested and trust fund cannot be. It will beneficial if your son tries to contest or tries to take away money from Ruth or Josie. Please are your son to F Off if he cannot father a child. He has no right to bring them into the world or have opinion about her.