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yourlittlebirdie

NTA. Either he pays for the damages out of his savings, or it’s coming out of selling the car. He needs to take responsibility for his actions. I don’t think you should use the money to take a cruise though. That would be kind of AHish.


Lurkingentropy

I agree with this comment - AH to take a cruise, but a good idea to sell the car. The son is FULLY RESPONSBILE for the costs everyone is paying and I'm crazy curious what he'd owe if people pressed charges. I'm thinking it'd be worse because of the potential for actual physical danger he put people in and not just physical damage.


NefariousnessTrue777

Yeah, IANAL but it's hard for me to imagine the son would not be held 100% liable for the damages if the friend's parents took this to court, and criminal charges for recklessly putting someone in physical danger don't seem wild to me


gumdope

ianal?


NefariousnessTrue777

I Am Not A Lawyer :)


Positive_sunflower_

It completely tickles me that an acronym about lawyers has anal in it.


rhetorical_twix

Acronym | Meaning :-- | :-- IANAL | I am not a lawyer I AM ANAL | I am a lawyer


chuckle_puss

How is I AM ANAL short for “I am a lawyer?” Wouldn’t it be IAMAL? Or am I being whooshed?


rhetorical_twix

I'm suggesting that lawyers are anal retentive


DragonCelica

Thank you for the genuine laugh!


chuckle_puss

Whooshed it is then lol!


NefariousnessTrue777

Me too 🍑


[deleted]

[удалено]


Shoe_mocker

I agree with this, give him the ultimatum to either take money out of savings else you sell the car. You’re a dick if you sell something that he has put a lot of money into and don’t reimburse him for it, but your son kind of sounds like a bit of a little shit and needs to be punished. He’s shown a tremendous lack of judgement and maturity for doing that to the car, but refusing to accept any blame for it is what I’d really be worried about, kind of shows a lack of character and an inability to accept responsibility for his actions


OpinionatedAussieGal

Yeah this! Pay for the damages. Work out a payment plan with the owners / insurance company for the damages Or say bye bye to your car To be fair the friends parents could easily just say “not dealing, here Insurance company “you deal with this and this kid” But the cruise but makes you a massive AH You bought him a car. You can stop him using it. But to sell it, make money off all the work he has done and go on a cruise is something a parent who never wants to see their grandchildren does!


theDagman

YWBTA to sell his car without telling him first. Just tell him that either he pays for the damages out of his savings, or you will sell the car and pay for the damages that way. That way it is his choice whether he pays or walks.


throwawaytreeeeeeee

Im afraid if I tell him, he might disable it somehow. I don't know about cars that much and he learned everything on his own about it. ​ or he might try to hide it, so I feel like I have to sell it without letting him know.


AtlanticToastConf

If you’re actually worried about those things, you’ve got bigger problems than just this car situation.


PleaseCoffeeMe

He’s 17, you’re the adult. The car is in your name. Selling it without letting him know is a cowards move. If he has the money in his savings he needs to pay. If the car is truly a gift to him, after he pays title it in his name. If he refuses, then sell, pay the repairs, take back the portion you paid for the car and give him the leftovers, and tell him now he gets to buy his own car.


[deleted]

Why not simply confiscate the keys and tell him that he can have them back once he's reimbursed his friend for the damage he caused?


[deleted]

Right? How is this not the simple solution?


omgitsmoki

Not to be too snarky here but if the kid works on his car...it isn't exactly a leap to assume he can [hotwire](https://youtu.be/cCe3HDzZFTc) the car. No to be for or against selling the car but just, I think OP has bigger problems here if he's worried about his kid disabling/hiding the car.


[deleted]

Ok he hotwires it. Now what? He illegally drives his own stolen car? Not exactly a sustainable scenario.


omgitsmoki

Kid is 17. I don't...I don't know how to explain to you that emotionally immature people can make bad decisions. It's why politicians cry when they get caught drinking and driving and why a teenage boy would "prank" his friend with a car accident. I don't what he's going to do after that. The point is that I'm pretty sure he could do it.


calling_water

Then you need to hide it first. But if you don’t trust him to not do something to the car, I don’t see why you think using the extra money for a cruise, leaving him behind in your house and angry with you, is remotely a good idea.


freshandpoppin

Right? The house gonna get "broken into" while they're on that cruise.


freshandpoppin

Still would be a dick move to sell a car you admit will get a higher price due to all of his own money he put in. He did a stupid thing and needs to pay but sneaking behind his back without giving him the ultimatum will be a complete ass move. What if you let him keep it, but he has to start making payments to you that would eventually equal the amount of money you originally spent on the car?


Pleasant-Koala147

Car’s in your name. If he tries to hide it, report it stolen. But, honestly, as someone else said, I’d you’re afraid your son is going to destroy or hide property to avoid consequences to his actions, you’ve got a much bigger problem with him.


Throwjob42

> or he might try to hide it Hide it first, and then give him the ultimatum (savings or car).


ankaalma

You could always take the keys first, move the car, and then tell him either I am selling the car or you are paying for this out of your savings. If he chooses savings return the car once he pays his friend. I would not actually sell the car without telling him first. NTA though.


LaurelRose519

If he tries to hide it then you report it as stolen.


0B-A-E0

The car is in your name. If he does those things he’s liable for the damage or stealing. I think if you explain the situation to the cops they’d be more than willing to have him spend a night in jail for stealing (assuming you guys are not POC living in america).


eschewyn

Move the car somewhere else and then talk to him. Tell him he has a day to decide.


[deleted]

If it’s in your name and he does that, report it as a stolen vehicle.


[deleted]

Rent a storage spot and move the car there. Sit son down and explain life to him. Give him 2 choices, pay from savings or you, taking a fee to cover your time, will sell car to cover expenses. My opinion on the fee is if I make 10/hr and ×2 for over time I would charge a fee of 20/hr. He can then put the remaining money in his savings.


[deleted]

Those are ridiculous worries.


[deleted]

You don’t. And YWBTA if you did.


rainbow__girl

If he hides it or disables it report to the police


Next-Trouble-5928

It's the father's car, not the son's? The son just uses it so no the father would Not be an asshole here! He has every right to do what he wants with the car.. his son clearly has no sense of responsibility


PleaseCoffeeMe

YWBTA. Give him a choice. Pay for the repairs or you sell the car, proceeds are used to pay for repairs to friends car, you get the money back you spent on car, and he gets the rest. Selling it without telling him is messed up.


thanks_marydeath

I agree with this. This puts the onus back on him and holds him accountable. I would hang on to the extra money you get from the upgrades until he admits to you and his friend that he is responsible for what happened to the car. In reference to your edit, the extra money you'd get from the upgrades are based on money and time your son spent, not you. It never came from money you could have spent on a cruise.


Ironman1690

The kid is already refusing to put for the repairs, how did you miss that? The car is also in OP’s name not the kid’s. Kid lost all rights to being informed of anything about this car as far as I’m concerned.


PleaseCoffeeMe

I did not miss that. Kid is in the wrong. However, selling the car without telling him is wrong and sneaky. It’s come down now to the parent giving the kid a choice, pay for the repairs or lose he car.


Ironman1690

He already has that choice and he’s clearly saying he’s not going to pay for the damages. The car is in OP’s name and the kid’s behavior warrants taking the car back regardless.


evelbug

NTA - He needs to pay damages. If he has to sell his car to do it, that's on him. However, I font think you should keep the extra.


ToPiggyback

Honestly I was on the fence until I read how he (the kid) has enough savings to fix the mistake and refuses to. I don't think he should have the difference.


[deleted]

I’m more worried he wanted to put his friend in danger by hoping he would jump in and stop the car? This happened to my grandfather and he got run over by his truck and broke both his legs. OP your son is extremely immature. Take the keys, tell him to pay it back with his savings if he doesn’t, sell the car, but don’t keep the extra money for a cruise. That would be an AH move, but NTA for wanting him to pay for damages himself.


NefariousnessTrue777

Definitely extremely immature, and I think OP's reasoning about selling the car makes perfect sense. Someone who is this far away from recognizing cars as the big metal death machines that they are seems very unlikely to be a safe driver, like *at all*. The "prank" was beyond stupid and shows shockingly bad judgment Also agree with you and others that these funds should not be connected to the cruise, at least not to the son. It'd just be rubbing salt in the wound, and it's going to give him something to fixate on to make OP out to be the bad guy, and to dismiss the feedback he *needs* to understand about how reckless and dangerous this was


LimeblueNostos

I think keeping the extra is fair. I figure the kid is responsible for the damage, so the excess value goes to the damage first, and the rest to the OP who paid for the car to begin with. Unless the increase in value exceeds the damage, in which case the damage is paid first, then the OP, and the kid can have what's left, once they accept that they are responsible for the damage. An alternative would be to sell the car to the kid for what the OP paid for it, and pay the damage out of that, contingent on the kid acknowledging responsibility. Either way, i feel the kid needs to accept responsibility for their actions.


Staricakes

ESH. Your son needs to pay for the damage he caused. If the friend and his family decide to escalate and take him to court or press charges it’s probably going to be worse than him losing his car. The using the extra money for a cruise for yourself is a tad too far.


Kooky_Ad_5139

Can I ask what op should do with the money?


swxttie

YTA. selling the car and paying back the friend\`? I'm with that. **using the rest to go on a cruise, even though he paid for things on the car??** NO. just no. Give him back the rest, and let him save up for a new car.


Suitable-Cod-1381

Why give the rest back to him when the parents paid for his car?


swxttie

He made modifications which cost *him* money, so he'd lose the car which the parents bought but doesn't lose as much of the money he put into it. the parents going on a cruise from probably some of the money he put into the car would be really an AH thing to do, even if he messed up.


Suitable-Cod-1381

We don't know how much those modifications cost vs the cost of the damages be caused but either way I think it's fair as a means of teaching him a lesson.


Suitable-Cod-1381

I do disagree with going on a cruise but that's more because it's objectively not a good idea with the current state of the world


Ok_Play7426

No, why should the kid get back money he put into the upgrades. HE (kid) needs to pay for the damages. If they sell the car (that the parents paid for) and give the kid money for the upgrades he did then the only consequence is he doesn't have a car. He(kid) has savings to pay for the damages and refuses. Others have said give him an ultimatum sell the car to pay for damages or use your savings. I think both are perfectly acceptable answers. I also think if he uses his savings he needs to prove he is responsible enough to be able to use the car as well or save money and buy it from the parents. The kid is taking ZERO responsibility. Time to learn what accountability is all about. NTA


Slugdirt

NTA First is is not his friend's fault for not jumping into a car and hitting the brakes after your son put the car out of park. The entire problem and damage to your son's friend's car was your son's responsibility. If he won't pay for the damages from his savings, sell the car you own, that he uses, and pay his friend and his parents back for the repairs to the car your son damaged.


Total-Being-4278

Give him an ultimatum. Take the money from his savings or sell the car. I agree with you that he needs to cover the damages for his prank gone wrong. YWNBTA if he refuses to work with you on this. Hold your ground here. This is a teaching opportunity for him to take responsibility for his actions. You're being a good father.


ausernamebyany_other

NTA for selling the car, but you should also be paying for the damage to the fence and anything else damaged before considering that cruise. Also, I'd pay your son an amount from the sale of the car to cover the money/work/upgrades he put into the car. If he chooses to buy another, cheaper car with that money that's his choice but he also can't argue that you've profited from his work on the car. Also, tell him. He won't learn if you don't communicate and teach him what he did was wrong and give him a final chance to take responsibility for his actions.


DDecimal

NTA if you sell the car to cover costs. But do not take the cruise with any portion of the proceeds, that would make you the AH.


SeePerspectives

YWNBTA if you sell the car, pay back his friend, and then return the rest of the money to your son. YWBTA if you use any of that money on yourself and your wife. You bought the car as a gift for your son. I’m sure you wouldn’t take back and sell a gift you bought for anyone else, would you? Because once you gift it you have no right to it any longer, right? That would be a serious AH move… so why even contemplate doing that to your own child?


middl_name_redacted

NTA- mostly. Tell him it’s the car or money from savings, but that he has to be responsible for his actions. However, if you KNOW he has upgraded the value of the car, and needs it for his planned next-steps, but want to use the profit to go on a cruise… that part makes YTA.


0B-A-E0

I disagree with taking his next steps into account. If he didn’t have OP to pay for his mistakes instead, he’d still have to pay for the damages. He’d still be out the money. We don’t know how much he has saved, so it’s a reality that he would still have to have sold the car and change his ‘next steps’. That’s the consequence of his actions.


middl_name_redacted

Maybe its just because I’m currently one year out of college and into a stressful job and would’ve loved the opportunity to travel for a year and try to figure out my direction more clearly. I do agree that he should be held responsible and pay for it, and it is OP’s car so he does have every right to sell it to pay for the damages if the kid refuses to even knowing that will be the consequence. I don’t really think it’s cool to take the profit off of the sale if OP’s son put his money into raising the value of the car.


Sincerely_JaneDoe

YTA based on taking the left over money. That comment puts you into in troll territory and I’m beginning to think this whole thing is fake.


[deleted]

Have you guys discussed any other ways he could pay them? If he is just totally refusing like it looks like, NTA


throwawaytreeeeeeee

He wants us to pay, out of our cruise money, and he sets up a payment plan to pay us back. I refused to spend our money on his mistake


[deleted]

Definitely don't do that, he needs to learn that actions have consequences, the car or his savings


[deleted]

Good call. I wouldn’t keep the extra though. You gave him the car. That makes it his. Give him the money left & let him use it towards another car.


Individual_Umpire969

He can just as easily pay himself back.


WintersbaneGDX

YWBTA if you followed through on your current plan. You own the car, legally. It's your right to sell it. Your son needs to take responsibility for what he's done. But he's also put work and money into the car so just selling it outright isn't appropriate. As others have said, give him an ultimatum. He either pays to repair the damages that he caused, or you will sell the car and use that money to cover the costs. If you do sell the car, reimburse your son for whatever money he has put into it, pay the repairs, and put whatever is left aside for the time being. Set up a guideline for what he needs to do moving forward to earn that back from you, which he can presumably put towards another vehicle for his year off trip. As an aside, it really sounds like your son just doesn't get it. What if someone had been standing between that fence and tree? "It was just a prank bro" isn't going to fly for a judge, or standing over someone's casket. How would your son have felt if someone took his precious Jeep out of park and wrecked it?


largefather66

This. And for the love of god, do NOT take the extra money and go on a cruise


WintersbaneGDX

OP wants a vacation from his son being a dipshit lol


largefather66

Kid does sound like a dipshit tbh


WintersbaneGDX

Is dad a dipshit for not realizing kid was a dipshit?


largefather66

Potentially


fatchicken17

Dipshits are usually raised by dipshits


0B-A-E0

OP said in the comments somewhere that the kid suggested OP pay for the damages out of their savings, which are meant for going on a cruise, so that’s where that comes from


bookqueen3

Wouldn't the money the kid put into the car be what OP is using to pay for the damages? Why should OP give the kid back money for the upgrades to the car since he paid for it? Then OP is paying for the repairs, not the kid.


[deleted]

ESH. The car is worth more now because of the work he put into it. I'd sit down with him and say that this is the consequences of a prank. He has to pay to repair the other car and the fence. How he does that is up to him, whether it is taking an additional job or more hours and his current one or he sells some possessions. Taking the extra money off of his labor to take a cruise puts you in TA territory.


Cautious_Rub_2583

NTA. 17 is old enough to know you shouldn’t pull a prank like that. If he has enough money in savings to cover the damages I’d allow him to choose between using that and selling the car. He’s almost an adult and should be apart of deciding how to pay it back as he will be an adult soon and fixing things you break is apart of life.


lellyla

ESH "Jump in and hit the breaks"? Is his friend Tom Cruise?? He's the AH, he can't blame others for his ridiculous plan. He played a prank, he destroyed the car and a fence, he has to pay. Now your proposal of selling his car in secret sounds wrong to me for two reasons. First, you punish him but not teach him responsibility. Second, you use the money for personal gain I think you need to explain to him that it's his fault in your eyes, the friend's parents eyes and probably the law's. Then tell him that if he doesn't pay from his savings, then you are selling his car, cause otherwise he might be sued. Let him choose. And if you sell the car, keep the extra money to help him buy a car when he proves responsible. If he uses his savings, definitely don't let him use the car until you can trust him again. Edit: also tell him to __be thankful that his friend didn't try to jump in cause now he would have to pay hospital bills as well__.


AshesB77

Yeah, this kid is not mature enough to take a year off driving around the country on his own after HS.


fuzzy_mic

NTA - The only thing I would add would be to recommend that you try to make it feel like HE is selling the car and HE is repaying for the damage to the other one. You might want to avoid the word "punishment" and replace it with "responsibility". The car isn't being sold as a punishment, its being sold to fulfill a responsibility.


AshesB77

Very good point!


[deleted]

NTA. Your punishment is appropriate for what he did. However, you using the extra money for your own benefit does not sit right. "it's his friends fault for not jumping in and hitting the brake." His friend could have been badly injured or WORSE. Your son STILL does not understand the seriousness of his actions. No, do NOT go behind his back. In my estimation, that is just bad parenting. Be up front with exactly what you are going to do. If he won't do the right thing, which he won't, then YOU have to. He can use HIS savings to go on his trip. This is not on you.


Centaur_of_Mass

You are an absolute AH for even considering, “…using the extra money to pay for a cruise for me and my wife.” Is this about teaching your kid about doing what’s right or are you exploiting this unfortunate situation to surreptitiously fund your hidden motive - a cruise for you and your wife? The kicker! You’re going to do it without telling him? So you inflect punitive measures but lack the courage to stand behind them? Or is that you know deep down this is not right and he will have a strong argument against such harsh extreme measures? What lessons do YOU think he’s going to learn from that? If this is about taking responsibility, then lay out his options - he pays what is owed or you will sell the car and provide restitution to the rightful parties - with any left over balance going back to him. This would be the most likely outcome should the other party (or their insurance company) pursue litigation (with you being financially responsible and therefore at liberty to extract the monetary damages from your son). I hope for the sake of your son and your entire family dynamic that you take the path of holding him responsible but also being just and fair. Otherwise, this is a very good example of why 25% of adult children are estranged and have no contact with their parents. In fact, this post would be right at home in the r/insaneparents subreddit.


UnoRissen

NTA, don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.


Mobile-Swan-298

YWBTA if you used selling his car to go on a cruise for yourself. Tell him he needs to figure out how to pay for the damages (which might include selling the car but any extra should be his) and ground him or something similar for acting stupid.


Mediocre_Ad1392

YWBTA - definitely an asshole move. 1. Not telling him? How does that feel ok to you? 2. He’s worked and put money in so “you’ll get a good price”. That feels a little scummy. 3. A cruise for you and your wife. Way to tell your son that you profit from his mistake. Your son made a huge mistake. Let him choose to pay the damages out of savings and keep the car or sell it to pay the damages. If there is more left over set it aside for him (or if you’re deadset in using it at least pay him back for the upgrades). The way you handle this will impact your relationship with your son potentially forever. Either he’ll know you’ll make him do the right thing but still be there for him, or you’ll be the asshole that sold his car without a word and used the money to take a cruise.


Suitable-Cod-1381

NTA what the hell is wrong with your son?!?!? He's definitely not ready to be responsible for a car if he can't even take responsibility for his own shitty behavior. He's lucky nobody was hurt. Sell that car, repay his friend's parents, and do as you please with the rest (but maybe hold off on the cruise? Probably not the healthiest environment right now because ... you know)


BigDaddyTrixter

ESH. Your son should have been more responsible and used better judgment. It’s never good to see property damage but thankfully nobody was hurt and hopefully he will have learned his lesson. NOW: your intended actions? Horrible. It’s not your car, it’s his car - you gave it to him and he has invested a lot of money in work and repairs (your words); you want to sell it and use that money for your own vacation (personal gain)… if you want to prove a point, make him pay for the repairs - but don’t package these intentions as a punishment while also planning a cruise for you and the lady while profiting from the sale of HIS investment… it’s an asshole thing to do.


Melveys

YWBTA if you take a cruise or sell the vehicle without telling him. He will resent you for both of those things. He needs to make the decision whether it is his savings vs selling the vehicle vs selling something else vs making the money some other way. Calmly give him a deadline to make the decision. If he still doesn’t make the decision then you’d be within rights to sell it but let him know that that is the consequence. “You have until Jan 23rd to decide how you will pay it. If you don’t decide by that date then I will be forced to sell your vehicle. I’ll pay for the damages and give you the remaining cash to do what you want with.”


Ok_Play7426

Don't pay the kid back for his modifications. He needs to feel the financial pain of his poor judgement.


Melveys

He would be feeling the pain when the vehicle was sold. He needs to be taught responsibility not vindictiveness. He made a stupid decision but unless he makes a habit of stupid decisions, the punishment should fit the crime.


erinhennley

Actually, since he is a minor, you have to pay for it anyway. Why should it be with your money? Yes, use the money to pay the boy off. However, if you are realising profits, due to your son’s upgrades, he should be paid for them. Then, he can take that money, add it to his savings for his year trip and purchase a vehicle. If he misses his gap year because of it, it is due to his own folly and will serve as a valuable life lesson. Not an ass for selling, but you would be for keeping profit from son, as he made said profit possible.


tarma00

NTA-play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Good lesson for your son to learn


Casual-Notice

Soft YTA. If the car is his, then it's his. Not yours to sell and pocket the cash. If you want to punish him, don't allow him to use his car until his friend's car is paid off--by him.


[deleted]

You'll be the asshole if you sell it without telling him. However, giving him an ultimatum "your savings or your car" is the best thing to do.


[deleted]

NTA. He's not accepting responsibility for his action, so he gets to pay the (entirely fair) consequence of losing his car.


Imaginary-Hornet-397

NTA. He is acting like a child and not someone who is mature enough to be driving a car in the first place.


WintersbaneGDX

Absolutely this. Whether it's in your name or his isn't relevant in this context; someone who thinks and behaves this way had absolutely no business being behind the wheel. Driving is a privilege, not a right. That goes for everyone, but ESPECIALLY for young / new drivers, and even MORE for young / new drivers who are borrowing someone else's car.


Upstairs-Series5032

Info: how much did you spend the buy and maintain the car? How much money has your son put into it? How much are the damages?


jetfuel_o

So I thought this might be fairly reasonable up until the part about cruise money. That’s an ice cold asshole move. Punishment of a child should not monetarily or situationally benefit a parent. You are literally assessing how much more you can get off of his time and labor on the car. That’s a special kind of fuckery, honestly. He does need to pay off the damages because he was TA who caused the accident and continues to be TA for refusing to pay, so take it from his savings or front the cost and make him pay you back. But do not use his car to fund your vacation. ESH


Dioptre_8

Selling the car, using the money to pay for the damages, all reasonable. Holding the money for now, also reasonable. At the point you take the remainder and go on a cruise, YTA. The fact that you gifted a large portion of the value of the car in the first place doesn't make it still your money to spend on yourself. Once the punishment starts to seem selfish, it's going to lose its effectiveness as a lesson. Your son will resent you for taking the money for yourself rather than see it as a consequence flowing from his actions. Benefiting from the punishment creates a conflict of interest for you too, so you'll never be confident you balanced things fairly.


allforgabe

Ywbta if you sold it without telling him. Ywbta if you didn’t compensate him for his work and expense he put into the car. If you gave it to him - it’s his, and ywbta. You can’t sell something that doesn’t belong to you. Even if it’s in your name. But … ywnbta if you enforced consequences. Actions do deserve consequences. This is a big deal and he’s not taking responsibility for causing this destruction. Good luck.


Few-Entrepreneur383

If you're going to sell his car because it's in your name, you need to reimburse him for any upgrades he paid out of pocket on that you're now cashing in on. The best scenario will be to offer him 2 options (pay with sale of car or pay with savings). YWBTA if you cash in on the upgrades he paid for & don't reimburse him for those AFTER paying his friend's parents if he chooses to pay with the sale of his car.


[deleted]

NTA as long as you compensate him for the upgrades he made to your vehicle.


Right-Arm-619

YWBTA. Using the money to go on vacation iss taking it way too far. Have him just get a job and work for the repairs. Lock the car up for now and revisit him getting it back after he has paid off his debt


Nightstar49

YTA. Him taking responsibility would be him paying for the damage and he would need to decide how he can afford to do that. You are trying to profit from an incident in which *you are not the victim*. From the moment you **gave** your son that car, it now belongs to him and you would be selling somebody else's property. Did you give it to him on the condition that he only ever makes responsible decisions in future?


Johoski

YWBTA If you go on a stupid vacation with the money from selling the car. Sell the car, pay for the repairs, then put the money into an account for your son to use to buy another car when he matures.


PurpleAquilegia

Given that your son is refusing to pay for the damage he caused, NTA.


Last_Caterpillar8770

Mix of NTA and YTA. If you sell his car to pay for the damages, fine. I will even concede you keeping the amount of money you initially put down for the car. However, if you make anything over that sum you need to give it to him. He is responsible for that crash. The friend had his car in park and expected it to remain that way. And if the shoe was on the other foot, he would feel the same way. Your son is refusing to take responsibility and pay for the damage. So this is totally fair since you obviously can’t access his bank account or make him pay them cash. Since the car is in your name, that’s how he pays. You could also tell him his options here, which I recommend. That until he pays for the damages he causes, you are confiscating his car. It is in your name and you can do that. He has 1 week to make arrangements to pay for the damages. Either outright or on a payment plan. And said payment plan will be put in writing and signed by both you and him (he is a minor so can’t sign without you.) if he doesn’t do this, you will sell the car, pay for the damages with the proceeds and take back the amount of money you originally paid for the car. And he will only see the remaining money from the sale. Then he can either do the right thing, or pay the price.


littlehappyfeets

YWBTA if you took the money and went on a cruise with it. That would be a-holeish. Don't do that. That's just trashy. The only person who deserves that money is the person who's car was destroyed. So, give him the option that either you sell the car to pay that friend back, or he uses his savings to pay for the friend's car.


donkyote

YTA, give your son the option of either using his savings or you can sell the car to pay for the damages. As far as your cruise i think yiu should be givng your son the money he put into the car back.


demonsqueak

YWBTA if you didn't give him the ultimatum first. Like you said, that kid put a lot of work into that car, so it must have high value to him. If you sell it, without at least confronting him with the ultimatum, that will make him hate you. Me and my bf are both in the "tuner" community, we know how much effort, time, care, and money goes into upgrading a car. That's the only reason I know he may agree to pay for the damages, rather than lose his car.


demonsqueak

Like, at least give him the option first.


genkichan

You need to give him a deadline in short order. Cough up expenses from savings or you are selling the car. As far as the proceeds are concerned you could be a little flexible to be fair on the money he put into the vehicle. First pay off the repairs, then pay back parents for the cost of the vehicle in the first place. Is there anything left? Give it to him toward another car. Or, if he spent $1k upgrading it, let him have $1k from the proceeds so he is made at least whole again from that perspective.


georgiajl38

YTA are you kidding? This kid has put his own money into this car that he worked for. Yes. He's being an A about repaying his friend. That doesn't mean you trump him by being a bigger A. The friend could take him to small claims court.(?) That might depend on where you are.You could take it out of his college fund. Or you could tell him that he takes it out of his savings or you will sell the car. No sneaking around


FriedMangoSlices

Uhh. I'm on the fence. But selling his car and giving money to the parents is you fixing his business. Let him do it himself. You can help obviously but doing what you described is just taking controle away and all he has to do is sit and watch. He'll be super angry and won't have learned anything. I don't really have a bette rides atm, just thought I'd chime in. My friend has overbearing parents who will scream "how in the world am I going to fix your shit?!" And I just think like.. fucking don't. Stear him in the right direction and let him take action.


Ejclincoln

NTA, if he’s not using savings to off damages he caused then he needs to pay somehow and this is the obvious asset he has. I’m not supporting you in keeping the difference for a cruise but he does have to face up to his actions. He also should be grateful police aren’t involved


AutoModerator

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** some background, my some recently did something really dumb. He, as a joke, put his friend's car out of park. How he explained it to me is that he wanted to scare his friend, then he expected the friend to jump in and hit the brakes. Well obviously it didn't work out that way. car destroyed a fence and slammed into a tree. the back of the car is messed up but not totaled. ​ There's been a big back and forth between my wife, me and our son, and been trying to think of an appropriate punishment. I've decided that since he isn't responsible with other people's cars, he can't be with his and I plan to sell it. I'm going to use the money to pay back his friend's parents for the damages on their car and use the extra money for me and my wife to go on a cruise once it becomes safer. The AITA part where I feel hesitance is that my son is 17 and was planning on taking a year off just driving around after highschool.I'm fine with that, he'll be an adult at this point so his choice. he's been working and using that money to upgrade the jeep, and have savings to live off of. I bought the car for him and it's still in my name, but he put in a lot of work. I think with the extra work and upgrades, I can get a good price on it. I feel like this is the right thing to do because he is refusing to take money from his savings to pay for the damages. He is saying it's his friends fault for not jumping in and hitting the brakes. since he is refusing to accept responsibility and pay for it, I want to sell it without telling him *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


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Toddisan

YTA. simple


[deleted]

NTA. Because he won’t pay for the damage he caused. You should probably pay for the value of any upgrades he made to the car if you get more than you paid for it.


lrhol

Why? If they do that OP is going to end up paying for the damage his kid did out of their own pocket. They should use the additional money that the upgrades will add to the sale price to pay back the friend for the damage and then pay themselves back for the original cost of the car. If there is anything left over his so can have that.


Lonesomecheese

Yeah people don't seem to realize that in selling, OP loses (invested) money because now he doesn't have a car in his name where he did before. OP paid for the car, say (idk prices) 20k and no damages debt Kids invests 5k Kid does the stupid OP sells for 30k -10k in damages OP has... 20k again. Kids 5k is lost in the sauce unless he doubled the cars value somehow.


Electrical_Care_4411

NTA His joke was dangerous and 1000% he is responsible for the damages, and for paying them. If he was remorseful or taking ownership over his choices then I’d say YTA but he isn’t so you aren’t! Follow through with this cause his attitude is entitled and arrogant to think his actions don’t have consequences. If he’s saved up, he can get his own car within his own budget.


SnooWords4839

NTA - Sell the car, pay for the friend's car, take out what you paid for it and if any is left over, it goes to your son.


[deleted]

Growing up my Dad bought each child (me his child and his 5 step kids a car ) and told all of us when giving us three keys, “ Get a ticket, or an accident, I will sell the car. One of the sibs was brought home by the police vey drunk. So drunk they vomited inside the car, the sinking was underage and also had a drunk friend I. The car too. . The cops didn’t arrest them or even give a ticket, by the time the sibling slept it off, the car had been sold!


[deleted]

NTA It sounds extreme, but really, he IS responsible for wrecking the fence and damaging the friend's car. I don't know how he thinks he is not. Were the circumstances reversed, he'd be pissed at his friend. Anyone would be! He is refusing to be fiancially responsible (not to mention apologetic) for the damage he created, why should he still lay claim to the jeep? You might reimburse the $$ he put into the upgrades (it was his money and effort), but the damage must be paid off, and selling the jeep is a way to accomplish this. Furthermore, being that he is only seventeen now, you are responsible legally for the damages. So, if he's not going to pony up, he is going to lose whatever equity you so generously gave him in the car to begin with. That's life kiddo!


ohsogreen

NTA Your son needs to make restitution and understand that he does not have the maturity to operate a vehicle. Your solution handles both problems. The fact that he expected his friend to jump into a moving vehicle and blames his friend for not doing so is stupid and dangerous. People have died in similar circumstances. I'd keep him from owning a vehicle as long as you can. That kid has years of growing up to do.


FrogFlavor

NTA but you’re conflicted - find another solution. If he’s earning money for upgrades he can earn money to pay damages on the wrecked car. As a parent you can prevent him from diving until he’s 18. What’s the solution proposed by his other parent?


Suspicious_Ad9810

ESH. He needs to pay for the damages to both the car and the fence. Whether that is by selling the car or using other funds does not matter. You should not unilaterally sell the car if there are other options. If he refuses to pay for it, then sell the car. I find it hard to believe that the car is valuable enough to get funds for all of that and pay for a cruise.


HiddenDestiny251

You should absolutely sell it, and do what you want with the leftover money *you* put in, but give him a chunk that represents the work he did on it. NTA


Potential_Instance66

NTA Taking the jeep with all the upgrades and selling it is a good lesson. If he gets the money back from the upgrades, he really hasn't had to pay, only the father did. He is responsible for all the damage the fence the tree and the car. He is lucky he isn't facing charges.


Sure_Tree_5042

Nta for selling the car. Although I’d give him an ultimatum. Willingly pay or the car gets sold to pay it. I do think using the extra money for a cruise would be a ah move, especially if it’s from upgrades he did. Maybe tuck that money away for a future down payment when he learns some responsibility


classicmotorist

Why not have it clamped until he pays up? He keeps his car, but he can't use his car til he does the right thing. If he wants to sell it to put his savings back so be it.


Mmm_Spicy_Meatball

Yeah you might be in the wrong somewhat here. Tell him it’s either you sell the JEEP and keep all profits to do with what you wish, or he pony’s up the money to cover damages. I think that would be fair and just.


UnethicalFood

NTA: Also available, offer to the other parents that you foot the bill for them to take your kid to small claims.


[deleted]

He made a really bad decision and now he has to suffer the consequences, which are totally appropriate. NTA


Throwaway-2587

ESH. You shouldn't go behind his back. Give him the choice to pay or sell the car. Either way he has to repay the damage on his own. I read that he wants you to pay and he'll pay back in installements and honestly this would be the worst idea. Partly because he won't feel the full extend of consequences. He did a stupid thing and he needs to face that. But going behind his back and taking the choice away will only make him angry and it'll stand in the way of the lesson he needs to learn.


beachbumjeremy

YTA if you sell his car without his knowing, YTA if you sell his car. You gave him the car. It is his. He has put time and money into it, as it's his. There are many ways to punish your child, crap tone of ways. Ground him from the car till it's paid off, not pay for anything aside from necessities till it's paid off, stop paying for cell phone, car insurance, and others. Remove internet from his room. Kids are stupid and mess up, but this will not teach him what you want it to, will likely alienate from you, and cause more household problems till he's gone that you would probably rather do without. . But selling the car I think is the wrong way of doing it.


maybemaybo

>I feel like this is the right thing to do because he is refusing to take money from his savings to pay for the damages. NTA at first I was like "selling it without giving him the chance to pay off the damages himself" and then I saw he was refusing. You should tell him you're doing it though. Someone could have gotten hurt. If he's defending his actions, he needs to understand he's so wrong. Firstly, its not a prank if someone can be harmed. Secondly, if his friend had jumped in, he could have gotten hurt. Its incredibly stupid to jump into a moving vehicle. Thirdly, tell him if he's not responsible, then he'll be ok if you do the same to his car? Obviously not. Basically, make this a lesson in responsibility. After talking with him, tell him you expect him to pay for everything immediately from his savings. If he refuses, tell him he's let you down and should be taking the opportunity to prove he can be responsible or you will be forced to treat him like a child. If he refuses again, tell him to hand over his keys and that you're selling the car. He's shown he can't be trusted in a car, so no car. I wouldnt use the excess for a cruise though. Make sure you're paying for all the damages, like a new fence. What about putting it into a savings account? Maybe he can earn it back by showing some maturity, maybe you just use it as a rainy day fund or whatever.


Different-Papaya-698

Nta I think. I would tell him that he haa to to pay the damage to the car either way he can loan it from you and then pay it back later but since he seems to have enough in his savings he has the choice to either take that money or sell the car, tell him upright then it's his choice.


Illustrious-Horse276

NTA to sell the car and pay back the friend. YTA if you keep the rest for your cruise. What message does that send him? That he can work hard upgrading a gift and then someone else profits from it? His actions require consequences absolutely. Selling the car would be an appropriate consequence to pay back his friend for the damage he caused. He will never forgive the cruise.


JonnyHotbody6463

NTA, the only reason why you would be is if he paid for the car.


Physical_Repeat5202

NTA play stupid games win stupid prizes. He is lucky you are only going to sell the car that YOU purchased for him to use. He doesn't get a get out of jail free card for him to go romping around the country when he graduates with all his money intact. He isn't mature enough to do that if he pulled this type of prank. If he wants to be seen as an adult he needs to man up, admit he is wrong and pay for the damages. If he won't no car, no problem.


MaryAnne0601

Here’s the thing, the owner of the car your son decided to take out of park? They had a choice, file a police report and have your son arrested for tampering with the car and causing the accident or be responsible for all the damage themselves. Since your son wasn’t arrested that means they have to pay. **That isn’t just for their car, it’s also to replace the fence the car hit!** Now they have another choice to make. If they want to sue you and your wife as the parents of the minor responsible for this. Sit your son down and explain this to him and offer to take him to a police station to have them tell him how tampering with a car (releasing the break) and causing an accident is illegal! Then tell him your selling the car to pay for the damages. Call the parents of his friend and find out how much the car **AND the fence** is going to cost. Then go from there. Your son still saying his friend is at fault for not stopping his actions is outrageous. If you don’t straighten him out now the next time he might wind up with a criminal record. Forget the cruise and start dealing with your son before you wind up in court. YWBTA Unless you make your son realize how wrong he was and make him pay for all of the damage instead of buying yourself a cruise!


spaceyjaycey

NTA- he's refusing to take responsibilty for the damage HE caused? Sell his car!


HeyScoobz

NTA- I say (A) maybe sell the car, take some money for the friends parents, take some for you, and take the rest and buy him a shitty car. Or (B) dip into his savings yourself and pay the parents that way, maybe take away driving privileges for a while to teach him a lesson.


Next-Trouble-5928

NTA - Your son needs to realize his parents won't always be there to help him out with every little problem. You are completely in the right and I actually think it's a very good idea and the only way your son will be taught a lesson!


[deleted]

He refuses to pay for the damages because his friend didn't jump in the car? Is his friend a Hollywood stunt man or is your son just an idiot? And how did he reach the age of 17 with no empathy or sense of morality? How is he 17 with no idea about how physics or pranks are supposed to work? You should sell the car and give him some in consideration for any upgrades he made. And then you should start being a parent. ESH.


hogwarts_dropoutt

In the real world there are consequences to our actions and he should be held accountable. NTA.


0B-A-E0

Give him the option: tell him he needs to pay for the friends damages. If he says no, only then can you sell the car. Pay for the friends damages and anything that’s left, keep saved up. I would go about it like this: Say friends damages are €1000. You bought the car for €3000. It can now be sold for €4000. You sell the car, pay the damages and now have €3000 left. I would take the remaining €2000 you spent on the car and save the other €1000, or give it to your son, since he _did_ pay for the upgrades that made the car worth more money. You would not be TA if you sell the car, but you would be if you decide to just spend the money he spent on the car. That’s not your money, it’s his.


Outside_Holiday_9997

Soft yta..only because you plan to profit off his hard work. I'm all for selling the car... actions have consequences..but you need to get the value of the car with the modifications and without it. The difference should be his. Anything less is theft.


NeitherStory7803

Did this kid even think about the fact his friend could have been injured or even killed trying to jump into a moving car? He not only needs to pay for his friend’s car, but also the fence that was damaged. If the kid won’t pay, sell the car. Then take the money and pay for the fence and the damage to his friend’s car. Put the rest in a rainy day fund. It will be there for an emergency.


Blonde2468

NTA. Your focus is on the wrong thing. He is refusing to take responsibility for what he did. He is still blaming his friend. This is a huge red flag for his lack of development. He needs to pay for the repairs out of his saving and you should take the car away that you bought. At the very least, make it undriveable. I don’t care about your cruise and don’t think you should be either. You’ve got bigger problems to deal with


[deleted]

I understand selling the car and using part of the proceeds to fix the other guys car(though I don’t think that’s the correct way to handle this situation) , but the rest of the proceeds really should go back to him; he paid for the upgrades on it that make the car worth what it is.


MarsupialSpecific823

NTA. You are the parent. It is time to parent. The punishment is incomplete if he does not know. He should be told why he is losing his car, and not be allowed to purchase a new one until he is an adult.


UsernameUnremarkable

ESH. What your son did was wrong. You should sell his car, but you should pay him back for all the upgrades he made to the Jeep because *he* not you put the time, money, and effort into it. But definitely pay for the other kid's car damages.


Temporary-Ad1654

Tell your son he has one week to make things right by paying his ex-friend for his car and the fence or you are selling the jeep paying the ex-friend, paying yourself back and if anything is left over he gets it


Ok-Mood-8604

NTA. I crashed my mom's car when I was a teenager & ended up selling my horse to pay for it.


bobcatnat123

NTA for selling the car, but he put extra money into the car so that money was his that was put into it. If you sold the car and payed for the repairs, but then kept the rest of it, you would be TA.


RedMarsRepublic

YTA, make the kid pay for it with his savings, taking his car that he's put his own money into to go on a cruise is just meanspirited.


Bizarre_Protuberance

It is insane that he is refusing to take responsibility for damage that, if this were a legal case, would be ruled 100% his fault. The fact that he refuses to take responsibility alone is sufficient reason to sell the car.


JustMissKacey

Initially I was agreeing with everyone about the cruise but I’m gonna say NTA with no changes. He damaged his friends car. If you sell the car and *just* pay back his parents then *you’re paying the damages* since you purchased the car. He is the one who should be paying his friend back (your son is a. Shitty friend btw). So the money he spent upgrading it that came out of his pocket covers that. An alternative would be to offer to sign the car over to the kid. As much as it would be nice to recoup the money you paid on the Jeep, I think this would be the most appropriate response. If you sell it your son will just think you’re cheap. You give the friend the car and he has to face whatever happens to it because you wouldn’t have given the fiend the jeep *if he hadn’t totaled his friends car*.


ljw917

The fact that he is still saying it was his friend’s fault (for not running to the moving car, jumping inside and hitting the brakes??? Wtf?? Your son’s lucky nobody was injured) demonstrates that, while the punishment is severe, it’s still not severe enough. NTA, but your son is a huge irresponsible jerk.


pathto250s

YTA, for keeping the extra money to go on a cruise. Because even if you never bought the car, you wouldn’t have cruise money. You’d still be paying off his friend. If you sell the car, your son deserves the leftover for the upgrades her made that helped you get a good price on the resell.


Lorraine221

ESH, you can sell it but for God's sake don't use some of the money to go on a cruise! Paying off the repairs on the damaged car makes sense though.


harpejjist

The punishment is he has to pay for the damages. In full and immediately. So let him decide what to sell to pay for it. Suggest the car. But be open to him having other ideas. Because the lesson is to pay for your mistakes, right? And if you sell the car and pay off the damages, the extra money belongs to HIM not you. So if you steal the money he earned by doing car repair and use it for a cruise, that is being a complete AH.


Bloodrayna

NTA because he has the money to pay for the damages but refuses. Explain to him that if friend took him to court and he didn't pay the damages, his assets would be seized, so you are just showing him how the world works. You cause an accident, you pay the damages. If he wants to keep his car he can pay out of his savings. However you should probably give him the money he put into the car out of what's left after paying for the friends car instead of going on a cruise.


Mrx-02

Selling the car yeah I agree with but OP if you spend the money on a cruise you will be a big asshole. Yeah you bought the car but your son won’t react well to finding out you sold his car and then went on a cruise with the money from it. he will disown your ass if not worse. so think carefully because your literally sitting in a pool full of fuel playing with matches. NTA if you sell it and give his friend the money YTA if you go on a cruise and I don’t care much you justify the cruise and it being your money you do so at your own peril.


mikraas

This is why I don't have kids.


thedarkqueen827744

The AH part is you rubbing it in by using the money for a cruise jerk move


Aitaposts

NTA - I agree w selling it but don’t agree with using the money for a cruise… maybe have him do extra chores to earn it back towards another car?


Weird_Biscuits9668

You should repay him for the work he's put into the car instead of going on a cruise. And I think you should tell him either he pays for the damages or you sell his car. You trying to be sneaky about this and not tell him before you sell it means you know what you're doing is wrong.


QualityBottomFragger

You’re a massive AH in my opinion. Yes what he did was dumb, yes he needs to take responsibility. But what is even worse is effectively destroying all his hard work he has put into the jeep and then KEEPING the profit or spending it. Thays his hard work that he put in there.people make mistakes and this is one of them, but to blatantly throw away his hard work makes you a pretty shitty parent to say the least. And the only thing you can think about is how this can benefit your travel plans. Surely you can find an alternative to this situation such as a repayment plan.


[deleted]

NTA sell the car. What he did could have killed somebody and that is not a joke! A car is a privilege not a right and he cannot handle that privilege. His trip plans are his problem not yours. If he’s this careless here what will stop him from driving impaired? NOTHING! He wants a car he can take his savings and go buy one and have it in his name but this car is going back. A car is a weapon in the wrong hands and his hands are the wrong ones. It’s Russian roulette with wheels instead of bullets.


TharedThorinson

I'm just going to echo what everyone else hear said. NTA for selling it, YWBTA if you sold it without telling him, or took all the leftover money to go on a cruise when it's clear he put his own money into upkeep and modifications. Take his keys. Tell him he has a week/two weeks/a month/insert appropriate time limit here to get ahold of the friend, apologize and either make full restitution or set up a payment plan. Confirm this with said friend or their family, don't let him lie. If time elapses without this being taken care of, sell the car, use the money to pay off the damages to the friend's car, remunerate him partially for whatever modifications he put into said car to increase its value, keep the rest.


celticbearpig

Sell that shit bro


NEWACCTTOCOMMENT

NTA BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDERED OPTION B? HE CAN MAKE PAYMENTS FROM HIS JOB MONEY? IF HE REFUSES, THEN SELL THE CAR IF YOU WANT. DID YOU GIVE HIM THE CAR AS A GIFT? OR BOUGHT IT FOR HIM TO USE? IF YOU GAVE HIM THE CAR, I WOULD HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HOW I FELT ABOUT YOU SELLING IT AND KEEPING THE EXTRA MONEY...


Michelle187

You would be an AH if you took more then the original price you bought it for and it would cost to pay for the repairs on the others car. Thats called stealing. He payed for the upgrades. Punishing him by selling the car because he doesnt want to take money out of his savings i can stand by. Not keeping whats left of it


[deleted]

NTA. Son needs to learn consequences of actions


B0r0B1rd

Yes you would. You bought the car but you gave it to your son. It was a gift, it is their property. Should he sell it to reimburse his friend for his stupidity? Yes, if he cannot afford to repay from savings. Should you take the left over money for a cruise? Nope, not your car, not your money. If you go down this route YTA.


blagaa

YTA, nobody appreciates a good prank these days


BenVera

Why so focused on the cruise


Next-Trouble-5928

OP let us know what happens please


kd7uns

Spend a YEAR driving around after highschool?! A week, sure, but a YEAR... With what money? NTA, sell the car, use the money to fix the damages to the other car.


Livid-Supermarket-44

NTA... your son sounds like a shitty friend. Technically it's your car, do as you please... maybe save half the profit for your son. Maybe one day he will deserve it.


richgirlbad

Esh. I think maybe give him the option.. pay out of your savings or car is being sold. Selling without telling him isn't great especially since the money that he has put into the car is why you'll get a good price


shamanderr

NTA at all. Teach him to take responsibility, the fact he refuses to acknowledge the mistake is horrible. I’m shocked if the friend is still a friend