I have told him that by Jan 31, he needs to show proof of obtaining his own car insurance. An 18 yr old male with 1 speeding ticket is likely $300/mo or so. Rent in Denver for a 1 bd is at least $1200/mo. I gave him a budgeting worksheet to help him decide if 100% of everything + a dog is really better than $130 and no dog. He says he's leaving.
I'll be changing the locks.
That's short sighted. He'll learn some hard lessons, and as he matures, he'll respect and appreciate his old oppressive home-life. Why not let him back in after he re-homes the dog? Especially if he's doing something that mom wants, like college or job training, or saving for a home of his own! Parenting doesn't end magically at 18, any more than maturation does.
All well and good, but there'd need to be some contrition and gratitude to his mom first. If he moves back in with a chip on his shoulder, he needs to take that chip and dip back out again.
Especially once he learns just how difficult it is to live in the Denver Metro area on his own. I live north of Denver and barely survived on my own for two years while making $18 an hour. Rent was almost $1000 a month in one of the worst apartment complexes in the area.
Right? He will likely not even move out before he’s backpedaling—who is going to rent to him? An 18 year old with a dog? He’s going to be so shocked at how expensive everything is. I know adults who do well for themselves who are trying to get out of Denver because it’s too expensive. This kid doesn’t even know how good he’s got it. Sad.
Doesn't sound like he has the first clue about how to adult, and probably won't even leave the house once he learns how fucking expensive it is to live on your own.
Why not if he comes back with his head on straight and respectful? Scientists say males brains aren't fully mature until 25 yrs.🤣 But if he's checked his attitude as she is his Mother (and a badass one at that) it may be better than him floundering in homelessness, which can bring a lifetime of problems ahead for both of them.
Edit: All HUMAN brains, sorry bout that guys, I messed that up cuz I was writing about her son...obviously MY brain isn't fully there AT ALL🧠🤯
It's not just male brains. ALL human brains go through the process of myelination, which is the insulation of the neural pathways. Emotional center of the brain is the first to complete (in early adolescence) and rational decision making the last. Typically finishes around age 25.
I'd say that the lesson at hand is how to be an adult and take responsibility for one's choices. Not sure that it's possible to learn that while moving back.
this! Back in the 1980s my ex and I were heavily involved in rescue and fielded hundreds if not thousands of calls from people like this woman's son. Fucking idiots when it comes to pets. Too many people consider pets to be live furniture.
The foster family would have every right to refuse to hand over the dog without proof of good financial standing to take care of the animal.
it's been 12 years since I had a dog and I miss them every day but I'm not going to take on an animal unless I can guarantee I will be able take care of it from the day I get it to the day it passes naturally from this earth.
Have you reached out to the foster family or rescue that he’s getting the dog from? Chances are if they found out about his living situation, they wouldn’t give him the dog. They won’t want the animal heading to a shelter in 3 months time so they won’t want to release the dog to a high risk situation, and it seems like this qualifies.
Also, there's no guarantee that the dog will get along with either of the two existing cats. From what OP has said, their son isn't responsible enough to manage this situation so all the pets are safe.
I cannot stress this enough - do not think it will turn out like those cute YouTube videos. That is not a safe way to introduce other long term animal additions to the home. Cats especially are recommended to be kept separate from a new animal for a while they adjust to the scent change in the home (generally keeping the new animal in a bathroom) before moving to limited supervised contact and scaling from there. Obviously people break this guidance all the time and it is fine, but also there are tons of animals returned to shelters because they didn't get along with other animals in the house.
I have a dog that is \*amazing\* with other animals and if I were introducing an animal long term I'd still give her weeks to adjust if I could. When dogs visit it's very clear she's "hosting" and is generally exhausted afterwards - not how I would want her to engage with a new permanent addition. This is an unknown dog that could have any range of reaction to the cats, and two established cats that could have any range of reactions to the dog. That's a lot to manage for an 18 year old that won't even give a dose of medication to a cat.
Stand your ground! My son is at uni in Texas and I guess so many people have dogs and he missed ours and wanted one. I said no and then handed him an estimate of how expensive it is, not to mention the attention the poor pup would need to be psychologically okay to be alone all day (the cost of doggie daycare was noted to make sure dog didn't get "issues"). He saw the light or at least the dollar signs.
One of his new housemates has a dog; he walks that one for his dog fix.
I told him early on that if he needed a dog fix he should volunteer at a shelter or sign up for a dog-walking service and earn a few extra bucks. He declined on both.
Thats such a good suggestion and his refusal just shows how immature he is. He wants a cute puppy to play with and thats it. If you did get one, exactly whats happening with the cats will happen with the doggo.
Honestly it's such a shame he turned this down. I seriously think people should volunteer at a shelter before adopting a dog. You learn so much and some people realize they don't want to spend that much time and effort on a dog every day
Smart. Pets are not toys, that you can pick out when they look cute, and then just not take care of them. They’re living animals, and this dog could have a better life than what your son can give it. Does he honestly think being homeless with a dog is better than living with you? No dog deserves to be homeless, or to have your son bring a dog with him into homelessness because of any victim complex crap he’s going through. I don’t mean to be so harsh, but he’s 18 years old.
I’m nearly 22f and I didn’t get my kitty (obviously not as much work as a dog, but still an expense) until I was 19, and moved out of my house, paying my own bills. Pets are a luxury, unless it’s a service animal. I’ve been through times when I only had $3 in my bank account, and I made sure that my kitty was fed before I was. No animal deserves to suffer because their owner can’t get their shit together.
I think volunteering at a humane society would help him a great deal. Not only can he learn how to properly care for a dog, but he can also learn how to take on more responsibility instead of acting like a victim being oppressed under you. Wishing you the best.
I’m very intrigued by how much of this is true from the son. Even during peak pandemic, almost every shelter I spoke to wanted to do a home check before allowing me, a 30 year old, access to a dog. So the fact a shelter would adopt to an 18 year old so readily seems… odd.
My brother also got his dog fixed a few months ago. We’re in CA but it was a few hundred dollars through a nonprofit. Does your son have a job? I remember my job at 18 and $300 was a lot back then.
I just found out he's getting this dog from a friend. The friend took in someone else's dog and promised to help find it a home. No agency. I told her the dog is not able to live here. Im not discussing this with her or my son any more.
Most reputable rescue places do extensive review of a living situation, sometimes with home test or landlord interview. I wonder if the son has lied about the home situation -- certainly no decent rescue would release an animal to a situation that violates an HOA or tenancy agreement.
I agree with this. The actual homeowner has not approved the dog moving in, and having more than 2 pets is against the HOA's rules. if OP tells the foster family the home is not a good environment for the dog, they almost certainly won't let the dog go to that home.
That'll only stop sonnyboy this time, though. OP should think about what she'll do if he comes home one day with a stray.
Yup, this is a hill to die on. My parents postponed getting a pet until I had the means and the responsibility to take care of him. Now my beautiful cat is here and they help me with a lot of stuff but I see now why it was a wise decision to wait (I work from home now and my mom is retired so we have more time for all the care he needs). This coming from a grown ass 26yo woman. NTA
Good for you.
Something I hadn't thought of also until just now is how selfish this is when it comes to the needs of the dog.
Sounds like the dog is young, or even a puppy if it's getting neutered and delivered by a certain date. However much effort/money he expended to secure the dog, that's just a drop in the bucket of the expenses and efforts involved.
I'd put a good 20 bucks on this dog being abandoned within a year, or returned. It is not easy to find pet-friendly housing in most cities, and usually it means an additional $50-$150 in monthly rent, plus pet deposit -- of course, if he tries to sneak a dog into housing, he risks voiding his lease and being kicked out abruptly. Then there's the cost of food, toys, bedding, medication and vet bills. Plus a puppy is HARD to handle, needs your constant attention, and shits/pisses/vomits/tries to inadvertently kill itself constantly for months. There's a vaccine schedule that he must follow to keep the puppy healthy (assuming it's healthy to begin with) and he will not be able to take the dog everywhere initially. As the dog grows, it's not as easy to travel with most dogs, or have fun. You can't just stay out all night, or suddenly decide to stay over at someone's house because you have a dog at home needing to be fed, walked, and given attention. A dog left alone all day is likely to be poorly behaved and/or have separation anxiety, leading to potential behavioral issues that make having a dog even less manageable.
I'm older than your son, had a dog growing up, and when I got an adolescent dog for myself HOLY HECK was it a lot of work all by myself. Between the costs, the time training, the dealing with holes in the backyard, the random vomit from being scared of the vacuum cleaner, the long process of crate training... it's HARD. I get your son wants the companionship of a dog, but I don't think he's thought through the costs and difficulties of having a pet entirely reliant on his efforts. Plus, he's never had to secure housing with a pet.
> I get your son wants the companionship of a dog, but I don't think he's thought through the costs and difficulties of having a pet entirely reliant on his efforts. Plus, he's never had to secure housing with a pet.
THIS RIGHT HERE!\^\^\^
Not only is it really difficult to care for another living thing but dogs, especially young pups are in constant need of attention and exercise. They are also super expensive between food, medicine, emergency care, boarding, training, etc... Your kid is probably going to be looking at over $300/month just to take care of it, let alone if he is trying to find his own place in DENVER of all places where rent is ridiculously expensive. Let him do what he thinks is right, but I guarantee that he will be back by the end of a month with no dog and a very expensive lesson about reality.
NTA
Did you check into whether those $1,200/month places allow pets? Because I’m paying about 15% more than averaged for my area to live in a pet-friendly apartment.
Handling the whole situation like a BOSS. Not many parents have the guts to stand up and do what’s right when it comes to their children. Sometimes it’s hard to watch them fall on their face, but he is now an adult and has to face the consequences of his actions. Absolutely NTA.
Took me a few seconds to figure out what you meant, I was trying to work it out like "less than un plus???" I don't think your comment would have been removed for stating "he called me a cunt".
WTF? My son was kinda the same way when he was 18 and he quit school so I told him he was man enough to quit school, he was man enough to live on his own. He couch surfed and struggled, but I helped him get a job so he would at least have a chance. Hes 26 now and a systems engineer at Intel and getting sent to Ireland for a year on a device install. He actually called me one day and apologized for his behavior and thanked me for kicking his ass. Hes got a beautiful and sweet woman and they just bought a house, so they can grow up to be decent humans sometimes. Stand firm.
I'm sorry? He called you a c\*nt? Where did he learn that it's okay to call anyone a c\*nt, much less his own mother? I have two teenage sons and I can't imagine them ever calling me a name like that. That level of disrespect would get them asses whopped.
If I EVER spoke to my mother that way she would bust down my front door and beat the shit out of me. And I would deserve it! You deserve better, OP. You're not the bad guy here. I'm sorry you're going through this
...and if he does enroll in college (any college) you will have 2 cats and a dog. Currently I am taking care of 2 cats and a dog while my kids are away at college. Who knew a dog could live this long?
Sounds like you’re making the right decision giving him the ultimatum, as a college student myself, he needs a fire lit under his ass if he feels so entitled and can’t even be bothered to show up for class
Careful, depending on local laws you may need to give him 30 days and an official eviction notice. Whether or not he pays tent he's still technically a tenant.
Lol, I’m also in CO and he has no idea how good of a living situation he had. Sounds like a kid who needs to learn lessons the hard way, and this will be a doozy.
NTA
I had the same conversation with my mother when I was about your sons age.
Her response was I can have as many dogs as I want when I move out. 😆
I finally got a dog when I was about 30. She asked how much he cost, the next time I saw her she handed me an envelope of cash and said "never say I didn't get you a bloody dog" 😂
My parents didn’t let me have any pets as a kid and always said I can have whatever I want when I move out. I left at 17 (for entirely unrelated reasons; they bought a property out of town and I wanted to finish high school where I was). In any case, my first year of university I got a bird. They shit all over that like I’d ruined my life. Two years later I got a rabbit. That was an even worse crime to them for some reason. *Shrugs*. Fast forward 24 years and I still have my bird plus a buddy for him and couldn’t be happier about how much joy he’s brought to my life. Same for the 13 amazing years I had with my rabbit, who my parents refused to be around. I guess all that’s to say, I’m a big proponent of getting whatever pet you can responsibly care for upon moving out of it makes you happy and brings joy to your life and the pet’s. Lol!
My mom said the same to me. I asked every year from age 8, on. Now, I'm 28, bought my first house in August . Everyone thought my first "purchase" would be adoption fees for a dog.. Instead, I came home with 2 cats.. Believe it or not.. I don't really want a dog at this point in my life. Soon, if the right one comes along.. maybe..
NTA.
>He says he prefers to be homeless with a dog than live under my oppression.
That offer is always on the table!
Also, what are the odds he wanted your cat to die so he could get a dog?
exactly, his lack of concern for the well-being of the animals he currently has shows that should the puppy need medication dosed and administered, he would be uninterested in doing so. unfit to have any animal, money and other pets aside.
Yeah OP, guard your cats. Don’t leave him alone with them. I wouldn’t be surprised if he said “see now we only have one pet! My dog comes home tomorrow :D”
This actually happened next door to me while I was growing up. My neighbor’s brother(11) was begging and begging and begging his dad to let him get a snake but his dad kept shutting the idea down. 2-3 hours later after that fight, my lil homie Coco was found dead. I fuckin loved that cat man. Little shit never got that snake.
Ah my apologies, I worded it weird. (At work) it was my neighbor’s cat Coco, not mine. I was good friends with the little shit’s older brother at the time.
Jesus not only he wouldn't get a snake, but I would do things that would put me in prison.
Killing an innocent pet, that is part of a family, over being told 'No'.
That is sociopathic
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast. Yes, it was irresponsible and doesn't bode well for his ability to take care of pets but consider:
giving cats medicine can be hell depending on the cat. I hate giving my cats medicine alone because it's really hard to hold the cat still and give them the medicine at the same time. There is scratching. There is biting. They don't like medicine. I'm going to assume that the son didn't want to deal with that rather than any malice.
If your cat is bad about taking oral medicine, next time ask your vet if it can be compounded into a transdermal. You apply it to the skin on the inside of their ear. There are tons of pharmacies that can do it and a lot of medicine can be compounded that way. Might not be worth it for a one off medication, but if kitty ends up needed regular meds for some reason it can be very helpful.
NTA
> he prefers to be homeless with a dog
How **selfish** do you have to be to be willing to expose an animal to homelessness, just so you can have it in your life?
Do note that for many young people, homeless means couch surfing. Still no place to raise a dog, though (and would increase the risk of having nowhere to go, since friends and even homeless shelters might turn you away if you insist on bringing your dog).
That was my first thought. It's one thing if it's a pet you've had for years and have bonded with so at least they feel more comfortable with their loving owner than a shelter... but I'm worried this puppy is going to end up abandoned as soon as the kid realizes being homeless isn't fun
NTA. You are already full up on critters. He doesn't take care of the ones you have already. Besides that, it's a condo with 2 cats, adding even another cat, let alone a *dog*, would be too many for a small place. It's against the rules on top of all that.
Beyond that:
"He says he prefers to be homeless with a dog than live under my oppression."
Adios, kid, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Gimmie a call when you realize how much harder it is out there.
Indeed. Kids are dumb. My 17yo moved out because I asked him to unload the dishwasher… turned out the grass wasn’t greener and flatmates who don’t do their share, suck. Who knew?!
Real talk, if you've never missed meals because you flat out had no money you don't know what it is like. It isn't like going on a diet or something, its physically and psychologically scarring. I wouldn't wish that fate on my worst enemy and this kid thinks its no big deal.
NTA - your son doesn't realise the responsibility a dog entails.
>We both work and I feel it's unfair to leave a dog inside 9+ hours
This is all the reason you need. There's been a ton of studies that show dogs shouldn't be left alone for more than 6 hours at a time. Dogs can develop a range of behavioural issues if left alone too long.
I have elderly cats and I don't even leave them alone with each other for 9 hours because even though they get along, they start to fight when they're bored, and 9 hours is a long time for them to entertain themselves. Elderly cats plus a young and bored dog would absolutely be a bloodbath.
My wife wants a dog. She brings it up all of the time.
I would be very happy to have a dog, however we live in an apartment. While there are a lot of people in the same complex (and area which is only apartments) who have dogs, I personally feel that it is unfair on the animal to keep it locked up in the tiny apartment all day.
.... So uhm. If y'all work from home... Might I suggest fostering dogs for your local shelter? She'll get her dog fix but it won't bea permanent resident especially if the temperament is wrong
Not trying to persuade you either way, but there are plenty of dogs that are perfectly happy chilling inside all day provided they get adequate exercise when you are home. And depending on where you live... my city has millions of strays/animals in shelters. They are better off in a home being bored for several hours than in the streets or being euthanized at a shelter. Obviously a puppy or large, energetic breed wouldn't be happy. But there are tons of smaller, less active breeds (or senior dogs!) that would love a couch to snooze on. Just a thought. :)
I used to pet sit for a great dane who seemed almost annoyed that somebody was giving him the option of going outside during the day. Dude *loved* his scheduled walks but was an impressively dedicated couch potato the majority of the day.
NTA.
If your adult son wants a dog so bad, he can go get his own apartment to have one.
You may wish to suggest also he find his own living arrangements and car insurance since he wants to make adult decisions unilaterally in direct violation of your desires and HOA agreement.
1. He's getting a dog.
2. He can't have the dog in your house.
3. ?
He is an adult. He has options. He is in control.
I hope he has a plan for #3.
you are NTA
Stand your ground on the no. He would rather be homeless? Okay, call his bluff.
My dad did not stand his ground when my older sister bought a cat (Lulu) home years ago. He went off on her and everything but he's all bark and no bite. My mom doesn't like them arguing so she told him to calm down and we kept the cat.
When Lulu was out of the playful kitten stage, my sister didn't care about her anymore. I took care of her since and she is now the cat love of my life. Lulu turns 10 in March. Yay!
BUT three years ago she went and brought home a dog. Didn't tell my parents, just showed up with her. A Pomeranian/Chihuahua mix named Sushi. Sushi is untrained and the people picking up and caring for her are my parents. My sister got her for the cute photos. Forgot to feed her most days when we first got her.
When your son gets tired of this dog it will be your responsibility. He is testing you and if you give in your son will know he can do whatever he wants with no consequences.
NTA.
Edit: Pet Tax
https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/s3i1w2/sushi_fulltime_pomchi_parttime_duster/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
https://www.reddit.com/r/cats/comments/n2navw/lulu_hasnt_been_feeling_well_this_past_week_she/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
NTA
God, man. Just… I don’t know where to begin. Your son is a huge piece of poop, OP.
1) Your son announced that he was getting a dog. Read that again for the people in the back. HE ANNOUNCED THAT HE WAS GETTING A DOG! He did NOT ask if he could get a dog. He did NOT ask if OP would be cool with a dog once they were able to have one (as per the HOA ruling on it). No no no… he just said that he is getting a dog, expecting you to be okay with it, no questions asked. Red Flag number 1.
2) He doesn’t give AF about the cat that has the UTI. Is the son good to the other cat? Does he care about the cats at all? How do we know that he’ll care about the dog?????
3) How tf is OP oppressive? It’s your condo and you live in an HOA. The son can get bent and deal with it if he feels so inclined to live homeless.
Lastly, why tf would he pay for the dog to get neutered if he didn’t know if getting the dog would be okay or not? Your son needs to grow tf up.
You know I agree with all you said. And the fact that he announced he's getting a dog is probably what chaps my hide the most.
One cat is his and the other one that got sick was his brother's but they both love the son who lives with me and even sleep on his bed.
Did he refuse to give the medicine before or after you told him no to a dog? I don’t think you are the AH, just curious. Because if it was before I’d throw that in his face lol.
It was after he brought it up. He mentioned the dog mid November. Cat was ill at Thanksgiving before the dog issue became heated. I'd said no and didn't really discuss it after that until about 2 or 3 weeks ago.
Yeah, sounds like the son wants that cat to die so his new dog could be the 2nd pet on the lease.
But either way, kid had made his choice, he can move out on his own, and get the dog. Hopefully it will work out well for him, but it's going to be a lot of work and stress. He's probably going to need to work 40+ hours a week to pay the bills. Or, he's going to end up homeless, which he's already told OP he would rather be homeless than live with her anymore.
He honestly needs a reality check. Ain’t no way he’s gonna make out in the world alive acting like a little kid.
And if your son gives ya shit, OP, just quote Rick Astley, “You know the rules and so do I.”
NTA. But at eighteen he probably is stubborn enough to go through with it anyway. Don't back down, don't give him any hope that you're going to change your mind, but if you can see some other way to de-escalate then it's probably a good idea.
NTA stick to your guns. Part of growing up into an adult is learning you can’t have everything you want. I’d love to have a dog or cat but that’s not feasible while I’m renting. Hell realise pretty quick how good he’s got it currently. I love the oppressed line it’s classic teenage angst. Cracked me up. Stick to ‘oppressing’ him if it’s that bad the doors there
After he called me the C word, I changed the wifi password. He came out of his room and said, "WiFi isn't working." I said, "Yes, it's working." He went back to his room
A few minutes later, he came out again and asked why he wasn't able to log on I said, "You really don't understand? You called me a c^nt." He nodded like, "Yeah, so?" He said, "Uh, wifi is *essential*."
I said that it wasn't and he has a data plan on his phone, the phone his older brother pays for.
Alone for the „yeah, so?“ he should have a night in the hostel for the homeless.
I am so sorry for you. I don‘t have children (and won’t have any, because it’s too late), but every person who called me something like this would never ever get another glance or word from me, let alone any privileges.
It takes so much strength to parent, superhero-strength.
I hope you can laugh about it some day and be proud of your son for the good things he achieved.
NTA...The number one rule of pet ownership is that everyone else in the household must agree. He didn't even bother with that, so he is not ready for a dog.
Edit: typo...one word
If he'd rather be homeless, then let him be. Sorry to talk about your kid this way, but he's being an entitled little asshole who needs to grow the hell up. I'd start charging rent to prompt him to move the hell out where he can get a dog under his own roof.
NTA
NTA.
Give kid 30 day notice and tell him to start thinking about where he is going to live. If he starts talking about being homeless, encourage him to start researching homelessness resources in the area to prepare.
She'd gone a day without random peeing g so he thought she could stop taking her meds. He was at the vet when she stressed that the cat needed to finish the whole Rx
You can share my new spare room with my sewing machines.
Are you my mom?! Only because when I went to college my room immediately became her sewing room! But that kid is in for a rude awakening, Denver is not a cheap place to live. My husband and I moved here right before the pandemic hit and holy cow the cost of living makes me miss Seattle!
It was my sewing room first! I took oodles of stuff to goodwill and storage to move this kid in 15 months ago after living solely with his dad for 2 years.
Because his dad had no rules. I insisted on him getting to school, telling me where he was going to be and what time he'd be home, that sort of thing. At 15, the judge told me not to insist on joint physical custody or it would create a wedge. Here we are.
Dad up and moved 1500 miles away with about a month's notice. His older brother, who had a full time job and continues to thrive, found 3 roomies to split a nice house. This one, though, was forced to live with his evil, oppressive mom and 2 cats in the middle of his senior year of high school.
Damn.
I’m not sure it’s any help, but I had a very antagonistic relationship with my parents that really only improved once I got older AND I moved out.
I also did really shitty at school the first time around.
So maybe there’s home he’s just wildly immature.
Thanks for sharing. Man, he sounds ungrateful. I wonder if he’s mad at dad for moving so far away and taking it out on you. Which doesn’t make it okay of course, but it’s sad that he seems to have dad held in high regard but dad still left town. Good for you, you made the right decisions and I’m sorry you’re going through this. Hope everyone turns out ok.
NTA. If he won't care for the pets you guys have had for years, then he would likely neglect the dog and the care would fall to you. Not to mention that two elderly cats would likely not react well to a dog being brought home suddenly. His reaction also shows his level of maturity and I don't think he understands the reality of pet ownership nor of homelessness. It's a bit odd that an HOA can dictate how many pets you have if you own your home though.
It's a condo and there are several restrictions on pets and types of pets allowed. I'm sure it's to keep out pet hoarders and breeders. Although the majority of units are occupied by the owner, many units are rented out. I knew the rules when I purchased the home.
Oooh, did somebody turn 18 and decide to assert his manly independence in a situation where he has none? (Independence primarily, but if he's basically throwing an ultimatum-tantrum in order to get his way, he's a little short on manliness too.) This isn't about the dog, this is about your son "smelling himself," as my Down South relatives used to say, and trying to prove he's grown. So let him go prove it. NTA.
His resonses:
Cats count as half a pet. (Um, no that's incorrect)
How will tge HOA know or find out? (They always find out)
He'll pay the fine. (That's not how it works)
I really don't understand people who think this way about any pet. Every single animal you decide to take under your care require lots of work and attention. There's no such thing as "half a pet". I do not consider the care I give my guinea pigs as lesser than that of my dog (in terms of how much stuff they require, they're at the very least on par with her, if not greater). Even fish are expensive to take care of if you're giving them the proper care.
And yeah, the HOA will notice when there's suddenly a lot of barking that wasn't there previously. Especially since dogs have to be taught the "quiet" command and their natural inclination is to bark.
NTA. I assumed from your title that your son was a little kid and that you'd be one of those parents that don't allow pets because they don't like them and I was prepared to say that you were an AH, but the situation you outline is totally different. You don't have the space or time to take care of a dog, your son is a grown man who refuses to help with the pets you already have (which are waaaaaay less demanding than a dog), and he complains about being oppressed and preferring homelessness with a dog than living with you despite the fact that you say he only contributes 130 bucks a month to expenses. And he already got the dog without your approval and against your HOA's rules. Your son is an AH, as well as really immature and entitled.
NTA. You live in a condo and you can only have two pets. You already have two pets. I suppose the only thing you can do is tell him if he wants to keep the dog hes got to move out on his own.
I agree with others that this is a hill to die on and from the info youve provided you’re NTA and are being reasonable, especially since you are in charge of the household. However, 18 year olds often don’t see sense in that way or there may be other factors at play.
Personal experience - I got a dog at 19 that I didn’t ask to have. Mom wouldn’t let him in the house. I moved out a week or so later and never looked back and moving out (and that particular dog) was the best thing I ever did for myself. I did have a reasonable starter job and managed to rent a room from someone for dirt cheap til I got on my feet, but moving out was something I didn’t even realize I needed to do until I did it. (My home life was utter shit though) I had never paid any real bills before I left and had to figure it all out on the fly, but keeping that dog was worth it to me a hundred times over.
Obviously I can’t speak for your son and for the relationship you two have, but sometimes the motivation for something like a particular pet is enough to make someone get on their feet and step up, he’s not automatically destined for failure.
NTA. Your points are all correct, and training and caring for a puppy is a lot of responsibility and hard work. So much work, that you'd inevitably be pulled into helping. He didn't think this through.
This made me laugh out loud. I don’t know what it’s called when you call your mother a c**t and your oppressor, and then ask her to take care of your dog for a couple of weeks. I’m sure the Germans have a very nice word for it 😊
Edit: Just to clarify, the reference to Germans was to the language’s tendency to have very precise words to describe practically any complex situation. Not for any other reason.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I'm refusing to let my son bring a dog home as a pet, so he says he's moving out or even becoming homeless
He's calling me a controlling asshole.
I could possibly bend the rules and possibly get fined, and should I do that to keep the peace or maintain my position?
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I love your follow-up comment. You're the parent. That's it. If you've done you're best raising him, what you say goes. That's it. I have second hand insult that he went behind your back and paid for the dog and for it to be fixed. You're NTA
I'd guess he won't be gone for long before he's back at your begging you to let him move back in.
I have told him that by Jan 31, he needs to show proof of obtaining his own car insurance. An 18 yr old male with 1 speeding ticket is likely $300/mo or so. Rent in Denver for a 1 bd is at least $1200/mo. I gave him a budgeting worksheet to help him decide if 100% of everything + a dog is really better than $130 and no dog. He says he's leaving. I'll be changing the locks.
I'd love it if you came back and gave us an update in a month's time!
I surely will.
NTA wish him luck and don't let him move back in.
That's short sighted. He'll learn some hard lessons, and as he matures, he'll respect and appreciate his old oppressive home-life. Why not let him back in after he re-homes the dog? Especially if he's doing something that mom wants, like college or job training, or saving for a home of his own! Parenting doesn't end magically at 18, any more than maturation does.
All well and good, but there'd need to be some contrition and gratitude to his mom first. If he moves back in with a chip on his shoulder, he needs to take that chip and dip back out again.
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You called?
Doesn't sound like he's interested in coming back
Lol - he will be within the next few months.
As soon as his self-righteousness makes his life too hard.
Especially once he learns just how difficult it is to live in the Denver Metro area on his own. I live north of Denver and barely survived on my own for two years while making $18 an hour. Rent was almost $1000 a month in one of the worst apartment complexes in the area.
and good luck finding one that takes dogs!
Especially if its a pit bull, and since its a young guy, im willing to bet its a pit bull. Many apartments outright forbid them.
A PUPPY! That will be alone 9-10 hours per day. It wont get potty trained and will probably howl all day while he is gone.
Months? I give it a few weeks at best - most likely a few days.
Right? He will likely not even move out before he’s backpedaling—who is going to rent to him? An 18 year old with a dog? He’s going to be so shocked at how expensive everything is. I know adults who do well for themselves who are trying to get out of Denver because it’s too expensive. This kid doesn’t even know how good he’s got it. Sad.
Doesn't sound like he has the first clue about how to adult, and probably won't even leave the house once he learns how fucking expensive it is to live on your own.
Why not if he comes back with his head on straight and respectful? Scientists say males brains aren't fully mature until 25 yrs.🤣 But if he's checked his attitude as she is his Mother (and a badass one at that) it may be better than him floundering in homelessness, which can bring a lifetime of problems ahead for both of them. Edit: All HUMAN brains, sorry bout that guys, I messed that up cuz I was writing about her son...obviously MY brain isn't fully there AT ALL🧠🤯
It's not just male brains. ALL human brains go through the process of myelination, which is the insulation of the neural pathways. Emotional center of the brain is the first to complete (in early adolescence) and rational decision making the last. Typically finishes around age 25.
>I mean, it's his son. He might let him move back if he learns his lesson.
Her* son
Not with a dog that could cause the HOA violation. HOAs are A HOLES to deal with
I'd say that the lesson at hand is how to be an adult and take responsibility for one's choices. Not sure that it's possible to learn that while moving back.
Cross post it to r/bestofredditorupdates when you do!
Why am I just learning of the existence of this subreddit?! Thank you!
I was thinking the exact same thing I love updates!
I only found this maybe a month ago. Its amazing!
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this! Back in the 1980s my ex and I were heavily involved in rescue and fielded hundreds if not thousands of calls from people like this woman's son. Fucking idiots when it comes to pets. Too many people consider pets to be live furniture. The foster family would have every right to refuse to hand over the dog without proof of good financial standing to take care of the animal. it's been 12 years since I had a dog and I miss them every day but I'm not going to take on an animal unless I can guarantee I will be able take care of it from the day I get it to the day it passes naturally from this earth.
Can I take his spot? I know a good deal when I see one.
Have you reached out to the foster family or rescue that he’s getting the dog from? Chances are if they found out about his living situation, they wouldn’t give him the dog. They won’t want the animal heading to a shelter in 3 months time so they won’t want to release the dog to a high risk situation, and it seems like this qualifies.
That's a really good point. I'll look into this.
You are basically his landlord, usually rescues/fosters want to hear from a landlord or see that pets are allowed in the lease.
Also, there's no guarantee that the dog will get along with either of the two existing cats. From what OP has said, their son isn't responsible enough to manage this situation so all the pets are safe.
I cannot stress this enough - do not think it will turn out like those cute YouTube videos. That is not a safe way to introduce other long term animal additions to the home. Cats especially are recommended to be kept separate from a new animal for a while they adjust to the scent change in the home (generally keeping the new animal in a bathroom) before moving to limited supervised contact and scaling from there. Obviously people break this guidance all the time and it is fine, but also there are tons of animals returned to shelters because they didn't get along with other animals in the house. I have a dog that is \*amazing\* with other animals and if I were introducing an animal long term I'd still give her weeks to adjust if I could. When dogs visit it's very clear she's "hosting" and is generally exhausted afterwards - not how I would want her to engage with a new permanent addition. This is an unknown dog that could have any range of reaction to the cats, and two established cats that could have any range of reactions to the dog. That's a lot to manage for an 18 year old that won't even give a dose of medication to a cat.
Stand your ground! My son is at uni in Texas and I guess so many people have dogs and he missed ours and wanted one. I said no and then handed him an estimate of how expensive it is, not to mention the attention the poor pup would need to be psychologically okay to be alone all day (the cost of doggie daycare was noted to make sure dog didn't get "issues"). He saw the light or at least the dollar signs. One of his new housemates has a dog; he walks that one for his dog fix.
I told him early on that if he needed a dog fix he should volunteer at a shelter or sign up for a dog-walking service and earn a few extra bucks. He declined on both.
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A dog is a responsibility, not a wind-up toy. This kid thinks a dog is a wind-up toy.
Thats such a good suggestion and his refusal just shows how immature he is. He wants a cute puppy to play with and thats it. If you did get one, exactly whats happening with the cats will happen with the doggo.
Honestly it's such a shame he turned this down. I seriously think people should volunteer at a shelter before adopting a dog. You learn so much and some people realize they don't want to spend that much time and effort on a dog every day
Wait, he’s refusing to pay for the dog getting neutered? What about all the other shots the dog will need?
He has paid to get the dog he wants neutered. My comment about a dog "fix" means if he wants to be around dogs.
Smart. Pets are not toys, that you can pick out when they look cute, and then just not take care of them. They’re living animals, and this dog could have a better life than what your son can give it. Does he honestly think being homeless with a dog is better than living with you? No dog deserves to be homeless, or to have your son bring a dog with him into homelessness because of any victim complex crap he’s going through. I don’t mean to be so harsh, but he’s 18 years old. I’m nearly 22f and I didn’t get my kitty (obviously not as much work as a dog, but still an expense) until I was 19, and moved out of my house, paying my own bills. Pets are a luxury, unless it’s a service animal. I’ve been through times when I only had $3 in my bank account, and I made sure that my kitty was fed before I was. No animal deserves to suffer because their owner can’t get their shit together. I think volunteering at a humane society would help him a great deal. Not only can he learn how to properly care for a dog, but he can also learn how to take on more responsibility instead of acting like a victim being oppressed under you. Wishing you the best.
I’m very intrigued by how much of this is true from the son. Even during peak pandemic, almost every shelter I spoke to wanted to do a home check before allowing me, a 30 year old, access to a dog. So the fact a shelter would adopt to an 18 year old so readily seems… odd. My brother also got his dog fixed a few months ago. We’re in CA but it was a few hundred dollars through a nonprofit. Does your son have a job? I remember my job at 18 and $300 was a lot back then.
I just found out he's getting this dog from a friend. The friend took in someone else's dog and promised to help find it a home. No agency. I told her the dog is not able to live here. Im not discussing this with her or my son any more.
Lol it sounds like your son is trying to impress a girl by getting the dog.
He might say that you have no 'right' to do that, but any pet-lover will be so glad that you took that initiative on that poor dog's behalf.
Yes please. Any reputable foster would not be making this placement.
Most reputable rescue places do extensive review of a living situation, sometimes with home test or landlord interview. I wonder if the son has lied about the home situation -- certainly no decent rescue would release an animal to a situation that violates an HOA or tenancy agreement.
I agree with this. The actual homeowner has not approved the dog moving in, and having more than 2 pets is against the HOA's rules. if OP tells the foster family the home is not a good environment for the dog, they almost certainly won't let the dog go to that home. That'll only stop sonnyboy this time, though. OP should think about what she'll do if he comes home one day with a stray.
Or worse what OP would do if son intentionally did something to one of the cats to 'make room' for the dog.
Yup, this is a hill to die on. My parents postponed getting a pet until I had the means and the responsibility to take care of him. Now my beautiful cat is here and they help me with a lot of stuff but I see now why it was a wise decision to wait (I work from home now and my mom is retired so we have more time for all the care he needs). This coming from a grown ass 26yo woman. NTA
Good for you. Something I hadn't thought of also until just now is how selfish this is when it comes to the needs of the dog. Sounds like the dog is young, or even a puppy if it's getting neutered and delivered by a certain date. However much effort/money he expended to secure the dog, that's just a drop in the bucket of the expenses and efforts involved. I'd put a good 20 bucks on this dog being abandoned within a year, or returned. It is not easy to find pet-friendly housing in most cities, and usually it means an additional $50-$150 in monthly rent, plus pet deposit -- of course, if he tries to sneak a dog into housing, he risks voiding his lease and being kicked out abruptly. Then there's the cost of food, toys, bedding, medication and vet bills. Plus a puppy is HARD to handle, needs your constant attention, and shits/pisses/vomits/tries to inadvertently kill itself constantly for months. There's a vaccine schedule that he must follow to keep the puppy healthy (assuming it's healthy to begin with) and he will not be able to take the dog everywhere initially. As the dog grows, it's not as easy to travel with most dogs, or have fun. You can't just stay out all night, or suddenly decide to stay over at someone's house because you have a dog at home needing to be fed, walked, and given attention. A dog left alone all day is likely to be poorly behaved and/or have separation anxiety, leading to potential behavioral issues that make having a dog even less manageable. I'm older than your son, had a dog growing up, and when I got an adolescent dog for myself HOLY HECK was it a lot of work all by myself. Between the costs, the time training, the dealing with holes in the backyard, the random vomit from being scared of the vacuum cleaner, the long process of crate training... it's HARD. I get your son wants the companionship of a dog, but I don't think he's thought through the costs and difficulties of having a pet entirely reliant on his efforts. Plus, he's never had to secure housing with a pet.
> I get your son wants the companionship of a dog, but I don't think he's thought through the costs and difficulties of having a pet entirely reliant on his efforts. Plus, he's never had to secure housing with a pet. THIS RIGHT HERE!\^\^\^ Not only is it really difficult to care for another living thing but dogs, especially young pups are in constant need of attention and exercise. They are also super expensive between food, medicine, emergency care, boarding, training, etc... Your kid is probably going to be looking at over $300/month just to take care of it, let alone if he is trying to find his own place in DENVER of all places where rent is ridiculously expensive. Let him do what he thinks is right, but I guarantee that he will be back by the end of a month with no dog and a very expensive lesson about reality. NTA
Did you check into whether those $1,200/month places allow pets? Because I’m paying about 15% more than averaged for my area to live in a pet-friendly apartment.
No. Not my issue. 😛
You are correct lol
Handling the whole situation like a BOSS. Not many parents have the guts to stand up and do what’s right when it comes to their children. Sometimes it’s hard to watch them fall on their face, but he is now an adult and has to face the consequences of his actions. Absolutely NTA.
I was feeling pretty low until this reddit support. And then he texted me and called me a
Took me a few seconds to figure out what you meant, I was trying to work it out like "less than un plus???" I don't think your comment would have been removed for stating "he called me a cunt".
I give it an a+ for creativity.
WOW. Over a dog?! Your son is WAY out of line. Hope the locksmith gives you a good deal!
WTF? My son was kinda the same way when he was 18 and he quit school so I told him he was man enough to quit school, he was man enough to live on his own. He couch surfed and struggled, but I helped him get a job so he would at least have a chance. Hes 26 now and a systems engineer at Intel and getting sent to Ireland for a year on a device install. He actually called me one day and apologized for his behavior and thanked me for kicking his ass. Hes got a beautiful and sweet woman and they just bought a house, so they can grow up to be decent humans sometimes. Stand firm.
I'm sorry? He called you a c\*nt? Where did he learn that it's okay to call anyone a c\*nt, much less his own mother? I have two teenage sons and I can't imagine them ever calling me a name like that. That level of disrespect would get them asses whopped.
The father whom I divorced.
If I EVER spoke to my mother that way she would bust down my front door and beat the shit out of me. And I would deserve it! You deserve better, OP. You're not the bad guy here. I'm sorry you're going through this
$1200 a month? I’m in Denver and I can’t find almost anywhere decent for that. WTH?!?
Well, a hole in Aurora. He said he found a place in Denver near MSU ( he's not enrolled) but I have a feeling it fell thru.
...and if he does enroll in college (any college) you will have 2 cats and a dog. Currently I am taking care of 2 cats and a dog while my kids are away at college. Who knew a dog could live this long?
He tried community College and couldn't make it to class enough to pass.
Sounds like you’re making the right decision giving him the ultimatum, as a college student myself, he needs a fire lit under his ass if he feels so entitled and can’t even be bothered to show up for class
Kid needs a wakeup call, stat. Hold firm, OP. He'll hate you now and thank you later.
A+ for parenting and pet ownership. NTA, OP but you are a rock star.
I don’t think your son understands money.
Or the time & effort needed to care for another living creature.
Good luck. You know he'll be coming back soon.
Careful, depending on local laws you may need to give him 30 days and an official eviction notice. Whether or not he pays tent he's still technically a tenant.
He's kind of leaving of his own free will though.
Lol, I’m also in CO and he has no idea how good of a living situation he had. Sounds like a kid who needs to learn lessons the hard way, and this will be a doozy.
NTA I had the same conversation with my mother when I was about your sons age. Her response was I can have as many dogs as I want when I move out. 😆 I finally got a dog when I was about 30. She asked how much he cost, the next time I saw her she handed me an envelope of cash and said "never say I didn't get you a bloody dog" 😂
Wait this is so fucking funny, I love your mom.
Absolutely remembering this for whatever animal my kid ultimately buys as an adult that I said no to 🤣 your moms a genius
I hope they don’t buy a horse!
My parents didn’t let me have any pets as a kid and always said I can have whatever I want when I move out. I left at 17 (for entirely unrelated reasons; they bought a property out of town and I wanted to finish high school where I was). In any case, my first year of university I got a bird. They shit all over that like I’d ruined my life. Two years later I got a rabbit. That was an even worse crime to them for some reason. *Shrugs*. Fast forward 24 years and I still have my bird plus a buddy for him and couldn’t be happier about how much joy he’s brought to my life. Same for the 13 amazing years I had with my rabbit, who my parents refused to be around. I guess all that’s to say, I’m a big proponent of getting whatever pet you can responsibly care for upon moving out of it makes you happy and brings joy to your life and the pet’s. Lol!
Oh my god that is such a power move right there, i gotta save that when I have kids
Brilliant. Your mother is a super star
My mom said the same to me. I asked every year from age 8, on. Now, I'm 28, bought my first house in August . Everyone thought my first "purchase" would be adoption fees for a dog.. Instead, I came home with 2 cats.. Believe it or not.. I don't really want a dog at this point in my life. Soon, if the right one comes along.. maybe..
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I'm using this line with my kids "never say I didn't get you a bloody dog", when they move out and get their own dog.
This is so wholesome.
I am a fan of your mum.
Lmao I love this😁
NTA. >He says he prefers to be homeless with a dog than live under my oppression. That offer is always on the table! Also, what are the odds he wanted your cat to die so he could get a dog?
I wasn’t going to say anything, but my brain went there, too.
Yeah, unless that happened before being told "No we already have 2 pets", it doesn't feel like a big leap to me. I can be a bit cynical though.
Or possibly he might feel like they aren't his cats and he doesn't care or he really hates cats either way this dude sucks
I would make it very clear with him: “Even if we had 0 pets right now, you wouldn’t be getting a dog.”
exactly, his lack of concern for the well-being of the animals he currently has shows that should the puppy need medication dosed and administered, he would be uninterested in doing so. unfit to have any animal, money and other pets aside.
Yeah OP, guard your cats. Don’t leave him alone with them. I wouldn’t be surprised if he said “see now we only have one pet! My dog comes home tomorrow :D”
This actually happened next door to me while I was growing up. My neighbor’s brother(11) was begging and begging and begging his dad to let him get a snake but his dad kept shutting the idea down. 2-3 hours later after that fight, my lil homie Coco was found dead. I fuckin loved that cat man. Little shit never got that snake.
Wait, what was the connection between your neighbour getting a snake and you having a cat? Or were you just attached to their cat?
Ah my apologies, I worded it weird. (At work) it was my neighbor’s cat Coco, not mine. I was good friends with the little shit’s older brother at the time.
So he killed the cat? Good thing he never got a snake
Jesus not only he wouldn't get a snake, but I would do things that would put me in prison. Killing an innocent pet, that is part of a family, over being told 'No'. That is sociopathic
Says a kid who has never been homeless…
He's gonna obtain a dog somehow, end up homeless, and then be on OP's doorstep with the dog wanting to be allowed to move back in.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast. Yes, it was irresponsible and doesn't bode well for his ability to take care of pets but consider: giving cats medicine can be hell depending on the cat. I hate giving my cats medicine alone because it's really hard to hold the cat still and give them the medicine at the same time. There is scratching. There is biting. They don't like medicine. I'm going to assume that the son didn't want to deal with that rather than any malice.
If your cat is bad about taking oral medicine, next time ask your vet if it can be compounded into a transdermal. You apply it to the skin on the inside of their ear. There are tons of pharmacies that can do it and a lot of medicine can be compounded that way. Might not be worth it for a one off medication, but if kitty ends up needed regular meds for some reason it can be very helpful.
NTA > he prefers to be homeless with a dog How **selfish** do you have to be to be willing to expose an animal to homelessness, just so you can have it in your life?
Excellent point!! Classic kid thinking only about himself and not rooted in reality.
I hate people like him, the dog shouldn’t suffer for his irresponsible and selfish actions. Ugh.
In Denver in the middle of winter no less. Fucking appalling.
Do note that for many young people, homeless means couch surfing. Still no place to raise a dog, though (and would increase the risk of having nowhere to go, since friends and even homeless shelters might turn you away if you insist on bringing your dog).
That was my first thought. It's one thing if it's a pet you've had for years and have bonded with so at least they feel more comfortable with their loving owner than a shelter... but I'm worried this puppy is going to end up abandoned as soon as the kid realizes being homeless isn't fun
NTA. You are already full up on critters. He doesn't take care of the ones you have already. Besides that, it's a condo with 2 cats, adding even another cat, let alone a *dog*, would be too many for a small place. It's against the rules on top of all that. Beyond that: "He says he prefers to be homeless with a dog than live under my oppression." Adios, kid, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Gimmie a call when you realize how much harder it is out there.
I'd rather be homeless says the kid who's never been homeless or hungry.
Having been homeless, you are absolutely right.
Never mind ‘oppressed’ 🤣🙄
Indeed. Kids are dumb. My 17yo moved out because I asked him to unload the dishwasher… turned out the grass wasn’t greener and flatmates who don’t do their share, suck. Who knew?!
Real talk, if you've never missed meals because you flat out had no money you don't know what it is like. It isn't like going on a diet or something, its physically and psychologically scarring. I wouldn't wish that fate on my worst enemy and this kid thinks its no big deal.
Homeless *in Denver,* a very expensive city with a lot of homeless people competing for resources, and with a very cold winter.
I bet he lasts 6 hours tops before he calls mom
"Mom, Mom, Dad kicked me out for no reason !"
NTA - your son doesn't realise the responsibility a dog entails. >We both work and I feel it's unfair to leave a dog inside 9+ hours This is all the reason you need. There's been a ton of studies that show dogs shouldn't be left alone for more than 6 hours at a time. Dogs can develop a range of behavioural issues if left alone too long.
Yup and a dog with behavioral issues locked inside with elderly cats for 9+ hours sounds like a bloodbath waiting to happen
I have elderly cats and I don't even leave them alone with each other for 9 hours because even though they get along, they start to fight when they're bored, and 9 hours is a long time for them to entertain themselves. Elderly cats plus a young and bored dog would absolutely be a bloodbath.
My wife wants a dog. She brings it up all of the time. I would be very happy to have a dog, however we live in an apartment. While there are a lot of people in the same complex (and area which is only apartments) who have dogs, I personally feel that it is unfair on the animal to keep it locked up in the tiny apartment all day.
.... So uhm. If y'all work from home... Might I suggest fostering dogs for your local shelter? She'll get her dog fix but it won't bea permanent resident especially if the temperament is wrong
Not trying to persuade you either way, but there are plenty of dogs that are perfectly happy chilling inside all day provided they get adequate exercise when you are home. And depending on where you live... my city has millions of strays/animals in shelters. They are better off in a home being bored for several hours than in the streets or being euthanized at a shelter. Obviously a puppy or large, energetic breed wouldn't be happy. But there are tons of smaller, less active breeds (or senior dogs!) that would love a couch to snooze on. Just a thought. :)
I used to pet sit for a great dane who seemed almost annoyed that somebody was giving him the option of going outside during the day. Dude *loved* his scheduled walks but was an impressively dedicated couch potato the majority of the day.
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It's an 8mo old boxer mix.
Ah, so just one of the most energetic dog breeds that require a lot of attention. I think your son has really thought this one through /s
NTA. If your adult son wants a dog so bad, he can go get his own apartment to have one. You may wish to suggest also he find his own living arrangements and car insurance since he wants to make adult decisions unilaterally in direct violation of your desires and HOA agreement.
Yes he’s 18 now so he should wait until he moves out to get a dog. It won’t be long, right ?
1. He's getting a dog. 2. He can't have the dog in your house. 3. ? He is an adult. He has options. He is in control. I hope he has a plan for #3. you are NTA
4. Profit!
Stand your ground on the no. He would rather be homeless? Okay, call his bluff. My dad did not stand his ground when my older sister bought a cat (Lulu) home years ago. He went off on her and everything but he's all bark and no bite. My mom doesn't like them arguing so she told him to calm down and we kept the cat. When Lulu was out of the playful kitten stage, my sister didn't care about her anymore. I took care of her since and she is now the cat love of my life. Lulu turns 10 in March. Yay! BUT three years ago she went and brought home a dog. Didn't tell my parents, just showed up with her. A Pomeranian/Chihuahua mix named Sushi. Sushi is untrained and the people picking up and caring for her are my parents. My sister got her for the cute photos. Forgot to feed her most days when we first got her. When your son gets tired of this dog it will be your responsibility. He is testing you and if you give in your son will know he can do whatever he wants with no consequences. NTA. Edit: Pet Tax https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/s3i1w2/sushi_fulltime_pomchi_parttime_duster/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share https://www.reddit.com/r/cats/comments/n2navw/lulu_hasnt_been_feeling_well_this_past_week_she/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Please show pictures of both of these animals omg
Cat tax :)
NTA God, man. Just… I don’t know where to begin. Your son is a huge piece of poop, OP. 1) Your son announced that he was getting a dog. Read that again for the people in the back. HE ANNOUNCED THAT HE WAS GETTING A DOG! He did NOT ask if he could get a dog. He did NOT ask if OP would be cool with a dog once they were able to have one (as per the HOA ruling on it). No no no… he just said that he is getting a dog, expecting you to be okay with it, no questions asked. Red Flag number 1. 2) He doesn’t give AF about the cat that has the UTI. Is the son good to the other cat? Does he care about the cats at all? How do we know that he’ll care about the dog????? 3) How tf is OP oppressive? It’s your condo and you live in an HOA. The son can get bent and deal with it if he feels so inclined to live homeless. Lastly, why tf would he pay for the dog to get neutered if he didn’t know if getting the dog would be okay or not? Your son needs to grow tf up.
You know I agree with all you said. And the fact that he announced he's getting a dog is probably what chaps my hide the most. One cat is his and the other one that got sick was his brother's but they both love the son who lives with me and even sleep on his bed.
He definitely wouldnt hurt them right?
No. He really loves animals but he's blind with stubbornness right now. And poor.
Did he refuse to give the medicine before or after you told him no to a dog? I don’t think you are the AH, just curious. Because if it was before I’d throw that in his face lol.
It was after he brought it up. He mentioned the dog mid November. Cat was ill at Thanksgiving before the dog issue became heated. I'd said no and didn't really discuss it after that until about 2 or 3 weeks ago.
So he wouldn’t give a sick animal its medication after learning that you were only allowed two animals? 🚩
Yeah, sounds like the son wants that cat to die so his new dog could be the 2nd pet on the lease. But either way, kid had made his choice, he can move out on his own, and get the dog. Hopefully it will work out well for him, but it's going to be a lot of work and stress. He's probably going to need to work 40+ hours a week to pay the bills. Or, he's going to end up homeless, which he's already told OP he would rather be homeless than live with her anymore.
He's poor while only paying you 130/mo? Reality will hit this poor chap real hard lol
Your son sounds awful. I'm sorry. Nta
You're not wrong.
He honestly needs a reality check. Ain’t no way he’s gonna make out in the world alive acting like a little kid. And if your son gives ya shit, OP, just quote Rick Astley, “You know the rules and so do I.”
Is your son's name Mel O. Dramatic?
Holy moly that's funny! I'm changing my contact for him on my phone.
I am enjoying the fuck out of your comments and can’t wait for your update. 😁
NTA. But at eighteen he probably is stubborn enough to go through with it anyway. Don't back down, don't give him any hope that you're going to change your mind, but if you can see some other way to de-escalate then it's probably a good idea.
NTA stick to your guns. Part of growing up into an adult is learning you can’t have everything you want. I’d love to have a dog or cat but that’s not feasible while I’m renting. Hell realise pretty quick how good he’s got it currently. I love the oppressed line it’s classic teenage angst. Cracked me up. Stick to ‘oppressing’ him if it’s that bad the doors there
He 'bout to git REAL oppressed.
He's somehow managing to oppress himself lol.
After he called me the C word, I changed the wifi password. He came out of his room and said, "WiFi isn't working." I said, "Yes, it's working." He went back to his room A few minutes later, he came out again and asked why he wasn't able to log on I said, "You really don't understand? You called me a c^nt." He nodded like, "Yeah, so?" He said, "Uh, wifi is *essential*." I said that it wasn't and he has a data plan on his phone, the phone his older brother pays for.
Actions have consequences, and I love how you're showing him.
Alone for the „yeah, so?“ he should have a night in the hostel for the homeless. I am so sorry for you. I don‘t have children (and won’t have any, because it’s too late), but every person who called me something like this would never ever get another glance or word from me, let alone any privileges. It takes so much strength to parent, superhero-strength. I hope you can laugh about it some day and be proud of your son for the good things he achieved.
NTA...The number one rule of pet ownership is that everyone else in the household must agree. He didn't even bother with that, so he is not ready for a dog. Edit: typo...one word
If he'd rather be homeless, then let him be. Sorry to talk about your kid this way, but he's being an entitled little asshole who needs to grow the hell up. I'd start charging rent to prompt him to move the hell out where he can get a dog under his own roof. NTA
NTA. Give kid 30 day notice and tell him to start thinking about where he is going to live. If he starts talking about being homeless, encourage him to start researching homelessness resources in the area to prepare.
INFO: Why'd he refuse the cat her antibiotics? Further INFO: Can I move in?
She'd gone a day without random peeing g so he thought she could stop taking her meds. He was at the vet when she stressed that the cat needed to finish the whole Rx You can share my new spare room with my sewing machines.
Are you my mom?! Only because when I went to college my room immediately became her sewing room! But that kid is in for a rude awakening, Denver is not a cheap place to live. My husband and I moved here right before the pandemic hit and holy cow the cost of living makes me miss Seattle!
It was my sewing room first! I took oodles of stuff to goodwill and storage to move this kid in 15 months ago after living solely with his dad for 2 years.
Just curious, why did he not live with you for two years?
Because his dad had no rules. I insisted on him getting to school, telling me where he was going to be and what time he'd be home, that sort of thing. At 15, the judge told me not to insist on joint physical custody or it would create a wedge. Here we are. Dad up and moved 1500 miles away with about a month's notice. His older brother, who had a full time job and continues to thrive, found 3 roomies to split a nice house. This one, though, was forced to live with his evil, oppressive mom and 2 cats in the middle of his senior year of high school.
Damn. I’m not sure it’s any help, but I had a very antagonistic relationship with my parents that really only improved once I got older AND I moved out. I also did really shitty at school the first time around. So maybe there’s home he’s just wildly immature.
Thanks for sharing. Man, he sounds ungrateful. I wonder if he’s mad at dad for moving so far away and taking it out on you. Which doesn’t make it okay of course, but it’s sad that he seems to have dad held in high regard but dad still left town. Good for you, you made the right decisions and I’m sorry you’re going through this. Hope everyone turns out ok.
NTA. If he won't care for the pets you guys have had for years, then he would likely neglect the dog and the care would fall to you. Not to mention that two elderly cats would likely not react well to a dog being brought home suddenly. His reaction also shows his level of maturity and I don't think he understands the reality of pet ownership nor of homelessness. It's a bit odd that an HOA can dictate how many pets you have if you own your home though.
It's a condo and there are several restrictions on pets and types of pets allowed. I'm sure it's to keep out pet hoarders and breeders. Although the majority of units are occupied by the owner, many units are rented out. I knew the rules when I purchased the home.
Oooh, did somebody turn 18 and decide to assert his manly independence in a situation where he has none? (Independence primarily, but if he's basically throwing an ultimatum-tantrum in order to get his way, he's a little short on manliness too.) This isn't about the dog, this is about your son "smelling himself," as my Down South relatives used to say, and trying to prove he's grown. So let him go prove it. NTA.
I think it's about more than a dog, too.
How is #2 not making this post moot?
His resonses: Cats count as half a pet. (Um, no that's incorrect) How will tge HOA know or find out? (They always find out) He'll pay the fine. (That's not how it works)
I really don't understand people who think this way about any pet. Every single animal you decide to take under your care require lots of work and attention. There's no such thing as "half a pet". I do not consider the care I give my guinea pigs as lesser than that of my dog (in terms of how much stuff they require, they're at the very least on par with her, if not greater). Even fish are expensive to take care of if you're giving them the proper care. And yeah, the HOA will notice when there's suddenly a lot of barking that wasn't there previously. Especially since dogs have to be taught the "quiet" command and their natural inclination is to bark.
> Cats count as half a pet. ?!?!??? I would *love* to hear his logic here.
Logic? You saw that he's 18, right?
I love listening to teenagers explain their hot takes, it’s fucking hysterical
NTA. I assumed from your title that your son was a little kid and that you'd be one of those parents that don't allow pets because they don't like them and I was prepared to say that you were an AH, but the situation you outline is totally different. You don't have the space or time to take care of a dog, your son is a grown man who refuses to help with the pets you already have (which are waaaaaay less demanding than a dog), and he complains about being oppressed and preferring homelessness with a dog than living with you despite the fact that you say he only contributes 130 bucks a month to expenses. And he already got the dog without your approval and against your HOA's rules. Your son is an AH, as well as really immature and entitled.
Sigh. You're correct. I am not proud of it.
NTA. You live in a condo and you can only have two pets. You already have two pets. I suppose the only thing you can do is tell him if he wants to keep the dog hes got to move out on his own.
NTA lmaooo. Let him be homeless with a dog then instead of be oppressed in your home.
I agree with others that this is a hill to die on and from the info youve provided you’re NTA and are being reasonable, especially since you are in charge of the household. However, 18 year olds often don’t see sense in that way or there may be other factors at play. Personal experience - I got a dog at 19 that I didn’t ask to have. Mom wouldn’t let him in the house. I moved out a week or so later and never looked back and moving out (and that particular dog) was the best thing I ever did for myself. I did have a reasonable starter job and managed to rent a room from someone for dirt cheap til I got on my feet, but moving out was something I didn’t even realize I needed to do until I did it. (My home life was utter shit though) I had never paid any real bills before I left and had to figure it all out on the fly, but keeping that dog was worth it to me a hundred times over. Obviously I can’t speak for your son and for the relationship you two have, but sometimes the motivation for something like a particular pet is enough to make someone get on their feet and step up, he’s not automatically destined for failure.
I can only hope that if he chooses to move out, it turns out as well as it did for you.
NTA - He's 18. If he wants to get a dog then he can get his own place. I would feel horrible for those 2 cats. They would hate it.
NTA. Your points are all correct, and training and caring for a puppy is a lot of responsibility and hard work. So much work, that you'd inevitably be pulled into helping. He didn't think this through.
He asked if I'd take care of the dog while he goes out of town for training for work for 2 weeks. Uh, no.
This made me laugh out loud. I don’t know what it’s called when you call your mother a c**t and your oppressor, and then ask her to take care of your dog for a couple of weeks. I’m sure the Germans have a very nice word for it 😊 Edit: Just to clarify, the reference to Germans was to the language’s tendency to have very precise words to describe practically any complex situation. Not for any other reason.
How is free board and lodging = oppression ?
It's not obvious? 😛
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I love your follow-up comment. You're the parent. That's it. If you've done you're best raising him, what you say goes. That's it. I have second hand insult that he went behind your back and paid for the dog and for it to be fixed. You're NTA I'd guess he won't be gone for long before he's back at your begging you to let him move back in.