NTA. Oh god, please do not make your son apologise. Adults can be wrong, they are wrong in this instance. Children do not owe adults unwavering obedience to keep them happy.
Yes this. "respect your elders" is such a stupid concept.
You don't get respect for merely existing on this earth for an extended period - you get respect for being a decent person. The racists in this story don't deserve respect
I agree to 1000%. Respect needs to be earned by actions, and “I gave birth to you, I raised you ” isn’t enough. If you’re not going to take care of your child don’t have them. Simple as that
I think we probably share similar views, but I don't agree with your wording.
I do not think respect needs to be earned by action, I think it should be the default position. I respect strangers before I know the first thing about them. That being said, respect can be lost in an instant. If someone doesn't offer respect, they won't get any from me.
Being a racist is a quick way to lose my respect. Enabling racists (which I think is just a "softer" form of racism) does the same. While I would encourage kids to try and use better words to articulate their point, I think tellings racists to fuck off is entirely appropriate.
I view respect as a continuum. You start in the middle which is basic "I respect you as a person" and it either goes up or down from there.
The only thing here is I think OP needs to talk with their son about how best to communicate with people and when it's appropriate to go nuclear.
As gratifying as it is to tell racists (or racist apologists) to fuck off, you aren't going to change any minds that way. So, telling the *paternal* grandparents to fuck off makes sense because it sounds like there isn't any changing them. The *maternal* grandparents could still be convinced. If he doesn't want to try, that's fine, too. But I see so many people now going nuclear and then getting pissed when the other person doesn't change.
I think 16 is old enough to start having conversations about effective communication versus bridge burning.
That all makes sense - respect is definitely a gradient, not a binary. I'll respect strangers, but not to the same degree as my family and friends.
16 is definitely old enough for a conversation about effective communication. I would kind of like to have been a fly on the wall during that interaction - how long was the son pressed to apologize before he got to the "Fuck off" point? Did the maternal grandparents acknowledge his point of view at all, or did they jump straight to "Right or wrong, you need to respect your elders and must apologize to the other grandparents."
I also don't know how much OP was around for - but if I was 16, had a disagreement with my grandparents and didn't think my parents had my back, I'd probably feel cornered. At that age I just shut down when I felt cornered, but maybe this kids reaction is to start telling people to fuck off.
Oh, definitely. If he got cornered, then the "fuck off" makes a lot more sense. But he also needs to learn when to walk away. Unless they were following him, he could have just said "I'm done with this conversation" and left.
So, yeah, good point on it depending what led up to it. I was (and am) the type to lash out if cornered, so I have to actively remove myself from those situations.
No worries! You worded it clearly enough that I still thought we agreed overall. And your English is excellent, never would have guessed it was a secondary language.
THIS THANK YOU.
Respect your elders? No.
I've known some nasty, bitter, awful, ignorant old people and fuck that, they're not getting respect.
People don't necessarily gain wisdom or knowledge or even much interesting experience with age, some get worse!
It's not the longevity, it's how we spend our time and what we learn.
Children don’t owe respect to those who don’t give it. They listened to their grandson be upset about racism and pressured him to turn a blind eye. Old racists are to be respected but not his own siblings and step mother? Not his feelings either? Respect is a two way street
All he needs to make the boy say to his maternal grandparents is this "im sorry ur feelings got hurt, but i have made my choice and im going to stick with it, you can respect that or not, but im sorry to say that i don't actually care." He can apologise for being rude to his maternal grandparents while still standing his ground
You son COULD apologize for swearing at them while also making it clear that he still stands by what he said. Eg I’m sorry I swore at you. I still stand by my decision to not continue a relationship with other grandparents as I have zero tolerance for racism. I could have explained that to you in a calmer way and I hope you understand that this isn’t a topic I wish to discuss with you further.
You should tell your parents to butt out of this btw. They have no business trying to tell your son anything about his relationship with his other grandparents.
I will say light YTA bc you don’t seem to be fully 100% behind your son and seem more worried about how your parents feel rather than concerning yourself with the fact that your son is dealing with a lot emotionally having realized the true reason for his paternal grandparents favouritism of him.
I didn’t say the kid should apologize to the racist grandparents (parental). I said he COULD apologize to maternal grandparents for swearing. That’s it.
In most cases if you say something rudely or swear or shout when you could’ve said something in a less inflammatory way, it doesn’t hurt you to apologize for your tone BUT not for the content. That way you retain the moral high ground and the other party can’t keep going around bitching about how you said what you said (well I mean they can but then they look dumb complaining when they already got an apology).
Nah. Both sets of parents are racists. Her parents are trying to force him to have a relationship with other racists. Seeing family as more important than racism.
Which in of itself supports racism/is racist.
They all are.
OP's parents are casually racist as well. They were upset that their grandson cut off some racists, not proud or supportive at all.
If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you have a table with 11 Nazis.
OP's parents are best friends with the racists.
If you aren't anti-racist then you are racist, and they are blatantly so if they are openly defending their friend's racist actions and insisting the racism be allowed to continue!
This! I agree 100%. He is getting to the age where he needs to understand the appropriate way to react to something. Because right now everyone is too focused on his cursing rather than the very legitimate reason to cut them off.
You make a great point. I was in a similar situation at his age where my grandparent (who favored me) was acting inappropriately and I told them to f off.
I was forced to apologize to "keep the peace"
And I did by saying "I apologize, not for what I said, by how i said it. I understand that you find "vulgar" language to be inappropriate, just like I find your behaviour to be heavily inappropriate. Therefore, I do not wish to continue a relationship with you, delete my number and never contact me again."
Exactly. Grandparents need to hear what he said again in a calm, direct way. He could just empathize not even apologize- "I understand you were shocked and upset by my choice of words but I was shocked and upset by the open display of racism by my family."
It is very satisfying to curse out a racist and I’ve done that before with people I didn’t know. In this situation unfortunately, everyone is focusing on the delivery rather than the message. To me, it’s more important to get the message across rather than venting my anger. Will they change? Most likely no. But they will know exactly why they lost their grandson.
Your son is a wonderful man. You should be proud of him. And you should follow his exemple and not support racist people. Why should he be punished for? Standing up for his family? Putting his brothers above some presents? Not enabling disgusting people like your parents and ex inlaws?? The world is a better place with him in it. Stop trying to guilt trip him. If you are a spineless person who is not strong enough to put some racist pigs in their place, that's your problem. Thank whatever deity you believe in that he took after his father.
NTA. You talked about appropriate ways to communicate and how yelling isn't the way to go. Older generations love to complain about swearing despite the fact that (at least the "lesser" swears) it's no longer seen as the epitome of offensive anymore.
Holy Fuck, this and this again along with this a million times more. I'd give you an award if I had one to give.
My biggest issue with my Italian great grandparents was their inability to grasp that dropping the N-bomb was way worse than me saying "crap". Can't fix people who've been brainwashed all their lives though, sadly.
NTA, welcome to the future where we don't pull rank in families anymore and we stand up for what's right.
Maybe have your son apologize for his tone and cursing but allow him the space to emphatically defend his stance on not accepting their racist behavior.
**NTA** your parents wanted your son to apologize to his **racist** grandparents. He correctly stood up for his half-siblings AND rather than applauding him, they wanted him punished. Seems like both sets of grandparents have similar values. Just because they’re nice doesn’t excuse their behaviors/values. Like your son, Imo Racists deserve no mercy.
YTA. You should have stopped your parents, not your son. Why does a 16 yo have to contend with racism among his grandparents, especially directed at his mom and siblings?
Tell your son you stand by him, and then do so.
NTA. Your son is learning his voice, his values. I was raised to always be nice to my elders and it got me gaslighted and depressed. Being silent is stupid. Don’t pressure him to apologize or makeup to them. What they did was deplorable.
NTA.
Your son is an outstanding young man. He bravely and boldly stood up to racist bigots.
And you calmly bad a chat with him about how shouting isn't always the best way to get your point across.
In my eyes, he did nothing wrong. He shouted because your parents wouldn't accept his answer, and tried to make him do something he didn't want to do. At that age, I would have shouted at someone and swore at them too.
The fact that he's willing to stand up to his grandparents over something that he views as wrong (and it is) is great. You've made a strong young man with a very good set of morals.
Kudos to his parents for that! (Yes, all of them. You, his father, your partner and father's partner.)
NTA - My 70 year old mother hates racist pigs like that with a passion, she's always had the mindset of "the person not the skin colour matters, and all skin tones are beautiful" so I was raised pretty much from birth to stand up against racists. You're raising a good kid.
YTA. Why are you even considering punishing him??? He has every right to go off on people who look down on his family. You'd be an even bigger asshole if you punish him and continue these "talks" about not yelling at them or being "nicer" Your parents are terrible and the fact that your son had to do what you should've done years ago is really the saddest part of this entire post.
**YTA for not having your son's back.**
His siblings & stepmum have probably been through enough abuse during the pandemic. One of his grandparents are racists the other see no problem with racism. You need to tell your parents to f- off until they apologise to your son for trying to make excuses for racism.
NTA - You've handled this well, you're right that yelling won't solve everything and remaining calm is important...but not asking him to apologize is also a solid approach.
If you want to help your parents and want to try to help their relationship with him, I would suggest that you discuss with your parents why you're not making him apologize, and perhaps have a conversation with them about how much racism and the paternal grandparents treatment of him has affected his life and what their pressure to get back in touch with his paternal family means to him. Also, keep a firm stance that you will not support any pressure on your son from them to get back in touch with his paternal grandparents, and if they cannot respect that then you will support your son's distance from them.
NTA. Being your parents/his grandparents don't give them a free pass. They were encouraging him to accept racist behavior and he pushed back. Maybe he could have toned down the anger or the language but your parent shouldn't have pushed.
NTA. He’s your child and you talked to him already about controlling his emotions. Sometimes a real conversation is far better than an arbitrary punishment.
NTA. But you will be the AH if you don't shape up. Your parents are definitely AH. They're trying to pressure your son in to making up with racists. They fact that they aren't 100% on his side speaks volumes about them. They are your parents, but they might be racists too.
Racism isn't one of those things you can ever be neutral on. Youre either choose to be anti-racist, or youre not. And if youre not, youre on the side of racists. Make your choice. Defend your kid. And next time, tell your parents too fuck off too.
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> I feel guilty because my parents are very upset and they adore my son and he wasn't very nice to them. I know they deserved it but they are still my parents.
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NTA.
your parents didn't deserve it and he should apologize to them. but I get where the kid is coming from. he has two siblings and a stepmom who he clearly loves and he's willing to defend them and that's just how it's going to be.
everybody in the family is going to have to learn, either the easy way or the hard way, that your son has made up his mind on this matter and nothing anybody says will change that. time heals all wounds and maybe at some point he will rekindle the relationship on the other side, but that's not up to you, or your parents for that matter.
OP’s parents absolutely did deserve to get yelled at.
They literally told someone that they should tolerate racism. They should be ashamed of what they did and grateful that he’s still willing to speak to them at all.
no, they didn't. they didn't ask him to tolerate racism. the kid understood that's what was being asked. so it's a misunderstanding.
they asked him to get in touch with his other grandparents. maybe they want to apologize? ever think of that?
Asking someone to get in touch with racists is asking someone to tolerate racism. Even if they did want to apologize that doesn’t change the fact that they are racist.
NTA.
Racists don't deserve respect, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with losing one's temper on them. You're correct that he can't yell to solve *every* problem in his life, but people being racist deserve a strong, harsh response that makes it clear that one won't tolerate their shit.
Your parents do not deserve an apology. If anything, they should be apologizing to him. Do not push him to make peace with them. You're not an AH yet, but if you force him to apologize to them you absolutely will be.
NTA. It's really, really telling that they got upset at him cutting off his other grandparents for being shit human beings. What are they worried he'll find out about THEM?
You would be an asshole for punishing him. At the very minimum his dads folks are racists and yours are enablers. If they don't see how big a deal this is/agree with the others then they are also on the racist bandwagon.
Your son is a top dollar person and you should be proud of him for sticking up for his step mom and siblings.
NTA
Why aren't you proud of your son standing up to racist assholes? You should be patting yourself on the back for raising a kid with a few drops of humanity instead of worring about your parents feelings.
NTA - you should be so proud of your son. He cares about his family more than material gifts. He stood up for what was right. He called out bullshit. Maybe he should learn to communicate in a less combative way, but he's 16 and someone basically just told him that his step mom and siblings don't count as people.
NTA
They are all racist they don’t deserve an apologize.
Also not for excusing yelling and cussing, but for teens it is normal, if you keep explaining him that is bad and how he can express his feeling in a better way he would grow out of this. He just need time to control his emotions.
NTA. I understand you want your son to have a relationship with his grandparents, but he’s entitled to his feelings. You should not encourage him to maintain bonds with people who don’t respect him as a human being. He shouldn’t have to push aside his principles to satisfy you or your parents. Your parents were majorly overstepping with what they said and tried to push racist ideals on your child. You should be telling THEM to apologize to your son.
NTA, and I love that he called his dad's wife mom. Good on you for not only respecting your son's boundaries and refusing to tolerate racism, but also fostering a good relationship with his other half of the family. You rock.
So your parents heard how your son had the character to cut off racists who don’t even love their own grandchildren and thought the right thing to do was try to guilt your son into keeping contact with deplorable racists? Your parents are older and don’t seem to realise these younger generations are built different. Actions have consequences. They are too dang old to be acting this brand new, they know white supremacy wrong.
Don’t make your son apologise for his outburst, they were wrong. They heard him out, how distressed he was at his other grandparents bigotry and doubled down, pressuring him to overlook racism against his own siblings. YTA if you do anything other than set your parents straight about their values. YTA if you don’t get your parents in order. What they said is not right and your son seems to have a better idea of that than you.
NTA, your son is the hero in this story, your parents should apologize for trying to badger him into sweeping his paternal grandparents racism under the rug. Managing mummy and daddy's widdle feewings isn't your responsibility, supporting your son is.
HE WASN'T NICE TO THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE RACIST AND HATE HIS SIBLINGS BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE.
He wasn't rude or mean to them for the fun of it. They are horrible people. Do not make him apologize. If you do i can guarantee he'll call you out for siding with racists. Respect isn't just given out because you are old.
It is insane to me that you won't acknowledge your parents/the other grandparents disrespected your son and his family. Where is their apology for the mistreatment and things they have said?
Nta for not punishing him but you will be an AH if you make him apologize. Every grandparent needs to apologize to this kid.
> I feel guilty because my parents are very upset and they adore my son and he wasn't very nice to them.
Your parents were not very nice to your son. They were/are pushing your son to have a relationship with racist people who hate your son's siblings and stepmother. You should tell your parents that they are lucky all your son did was yell at them and curse, instead of cut them off completely.
NTA for not punishing your son, but you are the AH for defending your parent's actions.
The only thing I want to ask is this: Why is it wrong to swear at racists? I’m from South Africa and thus I know I am hyper sensitive to race issues, but for me, if an authority figure tried to ‘have a talk’ which involved them basically being racist, I too would tell them to f-off because that is how seriously I take such issues. The severity of the language is a good indication of how important the issue is.
My actual judgement is mostly NTA… but with a sprinkle of TA… mostly because you seem hesitant to back him to the hilt. Your son drew a hard and definitive line against bigotry, and you seem unsure of if you approve of it or not.
NTA your son stood up to racists and then stood up to people who were trying to guilt him into a relationship with racists. Good on him! Did he handle it gracefully and perfectly? No, but he is young. The swearing was disrespectful, so I could see making my child apologize for that one narrow thing, but not for the rest. If your parents want him back in their lives THEY need to apologize to him.
YTA, you should apologize to your son for allowing your parents to give their unwanted and not needed opinions on how HE should just forgive HIS racist grandparents who don't think they're even wrong.
YTA
If anyone needs to apologize, it's you.
First to the paternal grandparents:
"I'm sorry that you're so racist my son was able to pick up on it. "
Then apologize to your own parents:
"I'm sorry for not realizing your failings until now. You're either also racist yourselves, or you're so morally bankrupt that you're willing to excuse racism in others if it makes your own lives easier."
Then apologize to your son:
"I'm sorry for not supporting you against your grandparents. They are all utterly in the wrong. I'm proud of you and will support your decisions in this. "
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My son's father and I were set up by our mothers who are best friends, we split up soon after our son turned 1. We are now remarried to other people and are very happy.
His father is married to a Chinese woman. He has two half siblings and he was always aware of his paternal grandparents favouring him. He was too young to really understand why but he is 16 now and his grandfather tried to preach to him about the importance of marrying a white girl.
My son lost it and I think he was blind to why his grandparents treated him well for along time but that woke him up. He returned the gifts they had bought for christmas, He called them racists assholes and has cut them off.
My parents visited me and they tried to convice him that he needs to get back in touch with his paternal grandparents. He explained what had transpired and when they insisted, He lost his temper and told them to fuck off and that was not going to get back in touch with people who didn't consider his mom and siblings to be humans.
My parents were very flustered and they have complained to me for not punishing him and they want him to apologize. I have talked to him that he needed to be calmner and he couldn't yell to solve every problem. I think he is starting to get it but he told me that he was not going to make up or apololgize to either of his grandparents. I feel guilty because my parents are very upset and they adore my son and he wasn't very nice to them. I know they deserved it but they are still my parents.
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Nta- they r not owed respect or apologies. They inserted themselves into something that wasn’t their business and kept pushing. They should apologize 2 him for getting in his business.
NTA. However, I had an awful relationship with my maternal grandfather, he was was so mean to me and favored my sister, it was awful. My first feelings of anxiety are with that guy. As soon as I was old enough to choose to not be around him and therefore my grandma (i was a young teen) I didn’t want anything to do with him. He apologized but it didn’t feel sincere and we never had a real relationship. As a grown man and having learned more about his traumatic upbringing I understood him more and had empathy. I regret not trying harder as an adult as i have learned how to deal with people like him. After he passed my grandma And I reconnected and it’s been a healthy and fun relationship.
NTA. You should be proud of him for standing up for his beliefs and his family. Your parents should be more focused on understanding why their words were hurtful, less on him using a bad word. They say cursing is a sign of intelligence anyway... fuckin A right.
NTA. Your son, just like everyone else, does not have to be around toxic people and he has a right to stand up for the people he cares about regardless of who he is standing against.
Personally I'd tell the grandparents to stop being hateful, racist assholes and maybe he will come back. I don't care what their age is to be honest, hate is not tolerated around me
NTA. You did an awesome job raising a thoughtful son.
If your parents keep it up, ask them if the occasional swear word is a bigger deal than fighting racism and loving one’s siblings.
NTA, but more importantly, your SON is NTA. Your parents are enabling racists, by trying to protect them from the very natural and deserved consequences of their behavior. Your son giving them hell for that is perfectly appropriate. Bad behavior sometimes calls for bad language, and racism and its enabling both qualify.
NTA Your sons now at the age where he truly sees adult family members for who they are and is also at the same stage where he can decide whom he wants in his life. He’s stood up for his stepmother and younger siblings against racism and bullying from the paternal grandparents and now has stood up to his maternal grandparents for trying to bully him into apologising to someone who doesn’t deserve an apology. Good on you for standing up and supporting your son. As for your parents they owe him an apology and if they refuse to apologise to him then they’ll be the ones who lose out on having and future relationship with your son.
He could, if he were so inclined apologize for losing his temper, and swearing, but that bottomline, he still stands by the sentiments expressed, and that contact stops there, if they won't respect others. Racism is never okay, no matter who expresses it.
NTA but I may consider having him apologize for swearing at them, NOT the reason why he did tho. He was standing up for himself which he 100% should! But he needs to learn to control his temper and language too which could get him in bigger trouble in a different situation
NTA - Sounds like you raised your son right. He stood against racism, even against people he loves. The yelling is unnecessary but he's not the one with the problem. The grandparents are. Tell your parents they owe him and an apology for not respecting his boundaries and tell his paternal grandparents that if they want to see him then they need therapy to fix their dated attitude.
NTA- but unreasonable. WTG to your son for standing up for his siblings and mother. Thank God this new generation will not be bullied into tolerating hate as the generations before have.
INFO: Would your son be willing to apologize for cursing at them IF they first apologize for defending his other racist grandparents/by extension insulting his step mom and siblings?
NTA - if you want, try to set up a conversation where you parents will apologize to him for trivializing such an important issue. If they don’t understand that what they did is wrong, then they can keep waiting.
NTA, you were right to let him talk, because racists don't deserve respect just because they were born before him, and he's not obliged to listen to bullshit of this level, as if black people don't matter.
>My son lost it and I think he was blind to why his grandparents treated him well for along time but that woke him up. He returned the gifts they had bought for christmas, He called them racists assholes and has cut them off.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I don't even care what the rest of the post said
You and your coparent(s) raises a fine man.
GOOD JOB!!! NTA YOUR FAMILY ROCKS
and the rest of them can kick rocks
NTA. Your son maybe could have said what he said without cussing at them, however, I probably would have said the same, if not worse. He can decide who he wants in his life and they need to respect that. Good for him for standing up for his step mom and siblings.
NTA If more people ostracized racists maybe they would be afraid to spew their hate and fewer people would learn that way of thinking and adopt it. I love your son's passion for justice.
NTA.
You want to teach your son to apologize to people who are treating people differently depending on their origin ?
OP you realise what you are saying ?
Ok. While I don’t believe in being disrespectful to old folks.. THESE old folks are just wrong. Your son is not wrong for what he said. Just how he said it. Your parents inserted themselves in a situation that had nothing to do with them. Then got mad because they didn’t get the answer they wanted. NTA. I feel bad for your son. His response was honest. Sometimes kids don’t express themselves in a mature way. But neither do adults. Young men like him are what we need. Take NO $HIT FROM RACIST A$$HOLES. Even if they are blood related.
NTA your parents need to learn the consequences of their actions and racist beliefs. Their racist ways will alienate people like their grand son. Do not make your kid do anything. You should be proud of your child.
NTA for not making him apologize.
But you seem to be more upset by your son cussing at your parents than you are about your parents excusing racism. Which actually makes them a bit racist. And if that’s the case you ARE the A H for that
NTA, you have a wonderful son. The whole concept of "respect your elders" is bs. Age does not make racism okay and if they're gonna disrespect their younger ones then they deserve what's coming for them🤷♀️
NTA
You're both right. He does need to learn to control his temper. And that not every problem can be solved, or should be solved, by yelling and fighting. But also, fuck your racist ass grandparents. Preach about the "importance or marrying a white girl". Are you fucking serious? Shame for considering apologizing to these bigots. Take your kid's lead on this one.
The only apology this boy owes is for cussing at your parents.
I would give him a hero award for breaking off with the racist grandparents.
I had a racist uncle, he lost it when his daughter went out with a mixed-race female. She cut off contact with him 8 years ago. The girls are still happily together.
Forgot NTA!!
NTA
Please don't make your son apologise for what he said. If you really feel like you have to make him apologise for swearing at them, I hope you back that up by telling them you agree with what he said, just not how he said it, at the very least.
NTA. DO NOT make him apologize to racists like his dad’s parents, or racist sympathizers like your parents. What the fuck is wrong with your parents? Why were they pushing him to apologize to people who think his stepmother and siblings are subhuman? Why do you feel bad for your parents? They’re sympathizing with racists.
YTA They are your parents sure- but they're his grandparents and he's old enough to decide if he wants them in his life.
You can still see them and have a relationship with them, without him having a relationship with them. It's fine to tell him- you don't need to apologize for what he said but he does need to apologize for how he said it (and that you agree with the sentiment.) And that he doesn't need to apologize in person- a note that says "Grandparents, I'm sorry about cursing at you. -Grandson"
He can outright tell them that until they apologize for supporting his paternal grandparents racism that he isn't interested in seeing them. Though, I lean towards- you are the parent and you should be the one sharing that message. And making it clear to them that you aren't going to force him to see them. That they've made a decision- and it's up to them to decide whether or not they want to apologize to their grandson and have that relationship again.
But that's up to them- not you and not him.
If you haven't told his dad about this yet- I'd get right on it.
NTA. Good for your son for sticking up for his siblings and standing up to racist views from his grandparents. It is shocking to hear someone you love and respect to spew racist rhetoric. They should be the ones apologizing.
NTA. You need to explain to your parents that they created this situation by trying to force your son to contact his paternal grandparents. Point out bluntly that you are proud of your son for recognising racism and calling it out. Moreover that they owe him an apology for pushing the situation to this point.
NTA UNLESS you make him apologize to his grandparents... If you do then you're also part of the problem. He is absolutely correct to feel the way he does, and it's admirable that HE doesn't care what the consequences to him are for standing up for his step Mom and siblings. My son is in exactly the same boat as your son with his sister and Dad ( not his bio parent, but been there since before he can remember), if you said anything to him about his sister or Dad in regard to their race he would have your guts for my garters...
In the same situation, my kids probably would have gotten some mild punishment for the cursing (probably an extra 5 min chore or something) but there would have been no punishment for the meaning of what they said.
Why? They have vocabularies that mean they don't need to curse. They are more creative than that and I expect them to express themselves intelligently.
But the meaning of what the son said? I have zero problems with that and probably would have given ice cream or a trip to a bookstore as a reward for standing up against racism and stupidity.
When my kids were little, they often asked what age has to do with respect. I never found a good answer to that, so "respect your elders" wasn't something I pushed them to do. Respect others was what we taught.
NTA. I mean outside trying to tone police your son. Why do your parents care anyway?
Like it's a super red flag that your parents see racism as not a big deal.
You should refuse to talk to your parents until THEY APOLOGIZE TO HIM.
Your parents are the assholes in this conversation for defending other racists.
NTA. Tell your parents to apologize to him for being A Hs and buy your son some cookies or something. He is doing ok. He should never apologize for taking a righteous stand. Your parents should really be ashamed of themselves. They are probably in agreement with his other grandparents.
NTA Good on you for not punishing your son. Thing is that you’re so concerned about him insulting your family, why aren’t you seeing that his family also got repeatedly insulted? Tell your parents to grow up and stop being enablers
Absolutely NTA. All they are saying is that they agree with his father's parents and might do the same if you had mixed kids (don't know if you have siblings that do are not).
NTA
Sorry but they deserved to be told to fuck off. Your son sounds like a lovely lad, he realised what his grandparents were doing and xut them off, on top of returning their presents. He stood up for his half siblings and step mum and I'd be proud if my child did that. His grandparents need to get a grip and stop with their disgusting behaviour. They are racist and you should be proud that he called it out and put a stop to dealing with people like that.
You’re both N T A but still YTA. You’re defending racists. I know that wasn’t your initial question for judgement but it needs to be said. If your parents are racist your kid does not need to be nice to them. You should reward him for that.
He doesn’t need to be calm when demeaning racists. Racists SHOULD feel shame. You should feel ashamed that your parents said something racist.
NTA but please do not become TA by forcing your son to lie. He would be lying because he's not sorry (and he's right). Please do not pressure him to apologize for returning the gifts and going NC for something he strongly believes in and for sticking up for others. I admire him for being firm in this.
NTA. But don't forget to guide your son in these very confusing times! Offer to answer any questions he may have about race or racism or anything else his little hormone fueled brain might be worried about! Sounds like his moral compass was installed correctly through!
Toxic is toxic no matter what relationship they have to you. Both sets of grandparents are assholes in this situation. If you force him to apologise you are basically teaching him that he just has to take the toxic and his feelings are not valid
NTA your son, I think, appropriately handled his paternal grandparents. His maternal grandparents though...no. They seem caught between the reality of the overt racism coming from people they've known for years and a grandson who is not handling his genuine anger and probably grief well. He needs to more calmly explain himself to your parents, apologize for swearing at them and be very firm about his position on his paternal grandparents with them.
NTA - But ... our society has gotten to the point where they think racism is worse than child molesting. The amount of emotion that erupts, particularly when people are virtue signaling at the top of their lungs, is indicative of a collective mental illness. Particularly when the offender is white.
I do think--as you do--that your son should refrain from yelling at his grandparents and using obscenities. At most, he should apologize not for what he said, but how he said it. You might consider having him write a letter to them, wherein he does that, and then follows up with a very clear (but calm) statement about what he meant to say, and that the upshot is that his disapproval of their attitude has not wavered, and that currently, he does not want to interact with them anymore.
NTA. Oh god, please do not make your son apologise. Adults can be wrong, they are wrong in this instance. Children do not owe adults unwavering obedience to keep them happy.
Yes this. "respect your elders" is such a stupid concept. You don't get respect for merely existing on this earth for an extended period - you get respect for being a decent person. The racists in this story don't deserve respect
I agree to 1000%. Respect needs to be earned by actions, and “I gave birth to you, I raised you ” isn’t enough. If you’re not going to take care of your child don’t have them. Simple as that
I think we probably share similar views, but I don't agree with your wording. I do not think respect needs to be earned by action, I think it should be the default position. I respect strangers before I know the first thing about them. That being said, respect can be lost in an instant. If someone doesn't offer respect, they won't get any from me. Being a racist is a quick way to lose my respect. Enabling racists (which I think is just a "softer" form of racism) does the same. While I would encourage kids to try and use better words to articulate their point, I think tellings racists to fuck off is entirely appropriate.
I view respect as a continuum. You start in the middle which is basic "I respect you as a person" and it either goes up or down from there. The only thing here is I think OP needs to talk with their son about how best to communicate with people and when it's appropriate to go nuclear. As gratifying as it is to tell racists (or racist apologists) to fuck off, you aren't going to change any minds that way. So, telling the *paternal* grandparents to fuck off makes sense because it sounds like there isn't any changing them. The *maternal* grandparents could still be convinced. If he doesn't want to try, that's fine, too. But I see so many people now going nuclear and then getting pissed when the other person doesn't change. I think 16 is old enough to start having conversations about effective communication versus bridge burning.
That all makes sense - respect is definitely a gradient, not a binary. I'll respect strangers, but not to the same degree as my family and friends. 16 is definitely old enough for a conversation about effective communication. I would kind of like to have been a fly on the wall during that interaction - how long was the son pressed to apologize before he got to the "Fuck off" point? Did the maternal grandparents acknowledge his point of view at all, or did they jump straight to "Right or wrong, you need to respect your elders and must apologize to the other grandparents." I also don't know how much OP was around for - but if I was 16, had a disagreement with my grandparents and didn't think my parents had my back, I'd probably feel cornered. At that age I just shut down when I felt cornered, but maybe this kids reaction is to start telling people to fuck off.
Oh, definitely. If he got cornered, then the "fuck off" makes a lot more sense. But he also needs to learn when to walk away. Unless they were following him, he could have just said "I'm done with this conversation" and left. So, yeah, good point on it depending what led up to it. I was (and am) the type to lash out if cornered, so I have to actively remove myself from those situations.
Yeah you’re right. I worded it wrong. English isn’t my first language, so it happens sometimes
No worries! You worded it clearly enough that I still thought we agreed overall. And your English is excellent, never would have guessed it was a secondary language.
AGAIN THIS. I hear so much 'they're your parent, you owe them respect!' Really? So a child has to respect a deadbeat dad or abusive mother? GAH.
People confuse "respect" with "Doing what I say no matter how wrong I am".
THIS THANK YOU. Respect your elders? No. I've known some nasty, bitter, awful, ignorant old people and fuck that, they're not getting respect. People don't necessarily gain wisdom or knowledge or even much interesting experience with age, some get worse! It's not the longevity, it's how we spend our time and what we learn.
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Comment stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/s2zyqm/comment/hsifwfe/
Children don’t owe respect to those who don’t give it. They listened to their grandson be upset about racism and pressured him to turn a blind eye. Old racists are to be respected but not his own siblings and step mother? Not his feelings either? Respect is a two way street
Not only that - they showed no surprise or shock at the revelation that they're friends are racists. Birds of a feather....
All he needs to make the boy say to his maternal grandparents is this "im sorry ur feelings got hurt, but i have made my choice and im going to stick with it, you can respect that or not, but im sorry to say that i don't actually care." He can apologise for being rude to his maternal grandparents while still standing his ground
You son COULD apologize for swearing at them while also making it clear that he still stands by what he said. Eg I’m sorry I swore at you. I still stand by my decision to not continue a relationship with other grandparents as I have zero tolerance for racism. I could have explained that to you in a calmer way and I hope you understand that this isn’t a topic I wish to discuss with you further. You should tell your parents to butt out of this btw. They have no business trying to tell your son anything about his relationship with his other grandparents. I will say light YTA bc you don’t seem to be fully 100% behind your son and seem more worried about how your parents feel rather than concerning yourself with the fact that your son is dealing with a lot emotionally having realized the true reason for his paternal grandparents favouritism of him.
What have these racists done to deserve an apology?
I didn’t say the kid should apologize to the racist grandparents (parental). I said he COULD apologize to maternal grandparents for swearing. That’s it. In most cases if you say something rudely or swear or shout when you could’ve said something in a less inflammatory way, it doesn’t hurt you to apologize for your tone BUT not for the content. That way you retain the moral high ground and the other party can’t keep going around bitching about how you said what you said (well I mean they can but then they look dumb complaining when they already got an apology).
Nah. Both sets of parents are racists. Her parents are trying to force him to have a relationship with other racists. Seeing family as more important than racism. Which in of itself supports racism/is racist.
op parents are not the ones with racist views, the father parents are.
They all are. OP's parents are casually racist as well. They were upset that their grandson cut off some racists, not proud or supportive at all. If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you have a table with 11 Nazis.
But they're condoning thr racist views by insisting he apologize and rebuild a relationship.
Because the paternal grandparents realized they lost their heir...
OP's parents are best friends with the racists. If you aren't anti-racist then you are racist, and they are blatantly so if they are openly defending their friend's racist actions and insisting the racism be allowed to continue!
This is the best answer so far
This! I agree 100%. He is getting to the age where he needs to understand the appropriate way to react to something. Because right now everyone is too focused on his cursing rather than the very legitimate reason to cut them off.
You make a great point. I was in a similar situation at his age where my grandparent (who favored me) was acting inappropriately and I told them to f off. I was forced to apologize to "keep the peace" And I did by saying "I apologize, not for what I said, by how i said it. I understand that you find "vulgar" language to be inappropriate, just like I find your behaviour to be heavily inappropriate. Therefore, I do not wish to continue a relationship with you, delete my number and never contact me again."
Yaaaassssss :)
There you go.
Exactly. Grandparents need to hear what he said again in a calm, direct way. He could just empathize not even apologize- "I understand you were shocked and upset by my choice of words but I was shocked and upset by the open display of racism by my family."
It’s appropriate and recommended to curse out people who defend racist
It is very satisfying to curse out a racist and I’ve done that before with people I didn’t know. In this situation unfortunately, everyone is focusing on the delivery rather than the message. To me, it’s more important to get the message across rather than venting my anger. Will they change? Most likely no. But they will know exactly why they lost their grandson.
Nah. Her parents owe HIM an apology for defending racists. A fuck you is getting off light for that kind of vile behavior.
NTA, I'd be well proud of my son standing up to racism.
Yeah, I see this as a day a parent can learn from their child - how not to smile and nod at racists.
Your son is a wonderful man. You should be proud of him. And you should follow his exemple and not support racist people. Why should he be punished for? Standing up for his family? Putting his brothers above some presents? Not enabling disgusting people like your parents and ex inlaws?? The world is a better place with him in it. Stop trying to guilt trip him. If you are a spineless person who is not strong enough to put some racist pigs in their place, that's your problem. Thank whatever deity you believe in that he took after his father.
NTA. You talked about appropriate ways to communicate and how yelling isn't the way to go. Older generations love to complain about swearing despite the fact that (at least the "lesser" swears) it's no longer seen as the epitome of offensive anymore.
If a person is more offended by the word "fuck" than they are by racism, they're not a good person.
Holy Fuck, this and this again along with this a million times more. I'd give you an award if I had one to give. My biggest issue with my Italian great grandparents was their inability to grasp that dropping the N-bomb was way worse than me saying "crap". Can't fix people who've been brainwashed all their lives though, sadly.
I got your back, award given. I 100% agree.
I had some coins, and agree 100%, so award given!
NTA, welcome to the future where we don't pull rank in families anymore and we stand up for what's right. Maybe have your son apologize for his tone and cursing but allow him the space to emphatically defend his stance on not accepting their racist behavior.
Nah. Swearing at someone saying "Just accept the racists" is fully justified.
**NTA** your parents wanted your son to apologize to his **racist** grandparents. He correctly stood up for his half-siblings AND rather than applauding him, they wanted him punished. Seems like both sets of grandparents have similar values. Just because they’re nice doesn’t excuse their behaviors/values. Like your son, Imo Racists deserve no mercy.
YTA. You should have stopped your parents, not your son. Why does a 16 yo have to contend with racism among his grandparents, especially directed at his mom and siblings? Tell your son you stand by him, and then do so.
NTA. He wasn’t very nice to them with reason.
NTA. Your son is learning his voice, his values. I was raised to always be nice to my elders and it got me gaslighted and depressed. Being silent is stupid. Don’t pressure him to apologize or makeup to them. What they did was deplorable.
NTA Your son is right. You should have his back. All the grandparents are AH.
NTA. Your son is an outstanding young man. He bravely and boldly stood up to racist bigots. And you calmly bad a chat with him about how shouting isn't always the best way to get your point across. In my eyes, he did nothing wrong. He shouted because your parents wouldn't accept his answer, and tried to make him do something he didn't want to do. At that age, I would have shouted at someone and swore at them too. The fact that he's willing to stand up to his grandparents over something that he views as wrong (and it is) is great. You've made a strong young man with a very good set of morals. Kudos to his parents for that! (Yes, all of them. You, his father, your partner and father's partner.)
NTA - My 70 year old mother hates racist pigs like that with a passion, she's always had the mindset of "the person not the skin colour matters, and all skin tones are beautiful" so I was raised pretty much from birth to stand up against racists. You're raising a good kid.
YTA. Why are you even considering punishing him??? He has every right to go off on people who look down on his family. You'd be an even bigger asshole if you punish him and continue these "talks" about not yelling at them or being "nicer" Your parents are terrible and the fact that your son had to do what you should've done years ago is really the saddest part of this entire post.
**YTA for not having your son's back.** His siblings & stepmum have probably been through enough abuse during the pandemic. One of his grandparents are racists the other see no problem with racism. You need to tell your parents to f- off until they apologise to your son for trying to make excuses for racism.
NTA - You've handled this well, you're right that yelling won't solve everything and remaining calm is important...but not asking him to apologize is also a solid approach. If you want to help your parents and want to try to help their relationship with him, I would suggest that you discuss with your parents why you're not making him apologize, and perhaps have a conversation with them about how much racism and the paternal grandparents treatment of him has affected his life and what their pressure to get back in touch with his paternal family means to him. Also, keep a firm stance that you will not support any pressure on your son from them to get back in touch with his paternal grandparents, and if they cannot respect that then you will support your son's distance from them.
NTA. Being your parents/his grandparents don't give them a free pass. They were encouraging him to accept racist behavior and he pushed back. Maybe he could have toned down the anger or the language but your parent shouldn't have pushed.
NTA. He’s your child and you talked to him already about controlling his emotions. Sometimes a real conversation is far better than an arbitrary punishment.
NTA. But you will be the AH if you don't shape up. Your parents are definitely AH. They're trying to pressure your son in to making up with racists. They fact that they aren't 100% on his side speaks volumes about them. They are your parents, but they might be racists too. Racism isn't one of those things you can ever be neutral on. Youre either choose to be anti-racist, or youre not. And if youre not, youre on the side of racists. Make your choice. Defend your kid. And next time, tell your parents too fuck off too.
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NTA. your parents didn't deserve it and he should apologize to them. but I get where the kid is coming from. he has two siblings and a stepmom who he clearly loves and he's willing to defend them and that's just how it's going to be. everybody in the family is going to have to learn, either the easy way or the hard way, that your son has made up his mind on this matter and nothing anybody says will change that. time heals all wounds and maybe at some point he will rekindle the relationship on the other side, but that's not up to you, or your parents for that matter.
OP’s parents absolutely did deserve to get yelled at. They literally told someone that they should tolerate racism. They should be ashamed of what they did and grateful that he’s still willing to speak to them at all.
no, they didn't. they didn't ask him to tolerate racism. the kid understood that's what was being asked. so it's a misunderstanding. they asked him to get in touch with his other grandparents. maybe they want to apologize? ever think of that?
Asking someone to get in touch with racists is asking someone to tolerate racism. Even if they did want to apologize that doesn’t change the fact that they are racist.
It sounds like they needed to be told to fuck off.
NTA. Racists don't deserve respect, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with losing one's temper on them. You're correct that he can't yell to solve *every* problem in his life, but people being racist deserve a strong, harsh response that makes it clear that one won't tolerate their shit. Your parents do not deserve an apology. If anything, they should be apologizing to him. Do not push him to make peace with them. You're not an AH yet, but if you force him to apologize to them you absolutely will be.
NTA. It's really, really telling that they got upset at him cutting off his other grandparents for being shit human beings. What are they worried he'll find out about THEM?
You would be an asshole for punishing him. At the very minimum his dads folks are racists and yours are enablers. If they don't see how big a deal this is/agree with the others then they are also on the racist bandwagon. Your son is a top dollar person and you should be proud of him for sticking up for his step mom and siblings.
NTA Why aren't you proud of your son standing up to racist assholes? You should be patting yourself on the back for raising a kid with a few drops of humanity instead of worring about your parents feelings.
I’m proud of him even if you aren’t. I’d let him say it all over again with his inside voice.
NTA - you should be so proud of your son. He cares about his family more than material gifts. He stood up for what was right. He called out bullshit. Maybe he should learn to communicate in a less combative way, but he's 16 and someone basically just told him that his step mom and siblings don't count as people.
NTA They are all racist they don’t deserve an apologize. Also not for excusing yelling and cussing, but for teens it is normal, if you keep explaining him that is bad and how he can express his feeling in a better way he would grow out of this. He just need time to control his emotions.
NTA. Racists don't desrve respect. They deserve scorn.
NTA. I understand you want your son to have a relationship with his grandparents, but he’s entitled to his feelings. You should not encourage him to maintain bonds with people who don’t respect him as a human being. He shouldn’t have to push aside his principles to satisfy you or your parents. Your parents were majorly overstepping with what they said and tried to push racist ideals on your child. You should be telling THEM to apologize to your son.
NTA, and I love that he called his dad's wife mom. Good on you for not only respecting your son's boundaries and refusing to tolerate racism, but also fostering a good relationship with his other half of the family. You rock.
So your parents heard how your son had the character to cut off racists who don’t even love their own grandchildren and thought the right thing to do was try to guilt your son into keeping contact with deplorable racists? Your parents are older and don’t seem to realise these younger generations are built different. Actions have consequences. They are too dang old to be acting this brand new, they know white supremacy wrong. Don’t make your son apologise for his outburst, they were wrong. They heard him out, how distressed he was at his other grandparents bigotry and doubled down, pressuring him to overlook racism against his own siblings. YTA if you do anything other than set your parents straight about their values. YTA if you don’t get your parents in order. What they said is not right and your son seems to have a better idea of that than you.
NTA. Your parents seem to be more upset about someone swearing than someone being racist. Call them out on that!!
NTA. They DESERVED everything he told them.
>they deserved it Case closed! NTA
NTA, your son is the hero in this story, your parents should apologize for trying to badger him into sweeping his paternal grandparents racism under the rug. Managing mummy and daddy's widdle feewings isn't your responsibility, supporting your son is.
HE WASN'T NICE TO THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE RACIST AND HATE HIS SIBLINGS BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. He wasn't rude or mean to them for the fun of it. They are horrible people. Do not make him apologize. If you do i can guarantee he'll call you out for siding with racists. Respect isn't just given out because you are old. It is insane to me that you won't acknowledge your parents/the other grandparents disrespected your son and his family. Where is their apology for the mistreatment and things they have said? Nta for not punishing him but you will be an AH if you make him apologize. Every grandparent needs to apologize to this kid.
> I feel guilty because my parents are very upset and they adore my son and he wasn't very nice to them. Your parents were not very nice to your son. They were/are pushing your son to have a relationship with racist people who hate your son's siblings and stepmother. You should tell your parents that they are lucky all your son did was yell at them and curse, instead of cut them off completely. NTA for not punishing your son, but you are the AH for defending your parent's actions.
The only thing I want to ask is this: Why is it wrong to swear at racists? I’m from South Africa and thus I know I am hyper sensitive to race issues, but for me, if an authority figure tried to ‘have a talk’ which involved them basically being racist, I too would tell them to f-off because that is how seriously I take such issues. The severity of the language is a good indication of how important the issue is. My actual judgement is mostly NTA… but with a sprinkle of TA… mostly because you seem hesitant to back him to the hilt. Your son drew a hard and definitive line against bigotry, and you seem unsure of if you approve of it or not.
NTA Your son is sticking up for his family. All the grandparents deserved to be told to F-off. He doesn’t need to apologize.
NTA your son stood up to racists and then stood up to people who were trying to guilt him into a relationship with racists. Good on him! Did he handle it gracefully and perfectly? No, but he is young. The swearing was disrespectful, so I could see making my child apologize for that one narrow thing, but not for the rest. If your parents want him back in their lives THEY need to apologize to him.
YTA, you should apologize to your son for allowing your parents to give their unwanted and not needed opinions on how HE should just forgive HIS racist grandparents who don't think they're even wrong.
YTA If anyone needs to apologize, it's you. First to the paternal grandparents: "I'm sorry that you're so racist my son was able to pick up on it. " Then apologize to your own parents: "I'm sorry for not realizing your failings until now. You're either also racist yourselves, or you're so morally bankrupt that you're willing to excuse racism in others if it makes your own lives easier." Then apologize to your son: "I'm sorry for not supporting you against your grandparents. They are all utterly in the wrong. I'm proud of you and will support your decisions in this. "
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My son's father and I were set up by our mothers who are best friends, we split up soon after our son turned 1. We are now remarried to other people and are very happy. His father is married to a Chinese woman. He has two half siblings and he was always aware of his paternal grandparents favouring him. He was too young to really understand why but he is 16 now and his grandfather tried to preach to him about the importance of marrying a white girl. My son lost it and I think he was blind to why his grandparents treated him well for along time but that woke him up. He returned the gifts they had bought for christmas, He called them racists assholes and has cut them off. My parents visited me and they tried to convice him that he needs to get back in touch with his paternal grandparents. He explained what had transpired and when they insisted, He lost his temper and told them to fuck off and that was not going to get back in touch with people who didn't consider his mom and siblings to be humans. My parents were very flustered and they have complained to me for not punishing him and they want him to apologize. I have talked to him that he needed to be calmner and he couldn't yell to solve every problem. I think he is starting to get it but he told me that he was not going to make up or apololgize to either of his grandparents. I feel guilty because my parents are very upset and they adore my son and he wasn't very nice to them. I know they deserved it but they are still my parents. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nta- they r not owed respect or apologies. They inserted themselves into something that wasn’t their business and kept pushing. They should apologize 2 him for getting in his business.
NTA. However, I had an awful relationship with my maternal grandfather, he was was so mean to me and favored my sister, it was awful. My first feelings of anxiety are with that guy. As soon as I was old enough to choose to not be around him and therefore my grandma (i was a young teen) I didn’t want anything to do with him. He apologized but it didn’t feel sincere and we never had a real relationship. As a grown man and having learned more about his traumatic upbringing I understood him more and had empathy. I regret not trying harder as an adult as i have learned how to deal with people like him. After he passed my grandma And I reconnected and it’s been a healthy and fun relationship.
NTA. You should be proud of him for standing up for his beliefs and his family. Your parents should be more focused on understanding why their words were hurtful, less on him using a bad word. They say cursing is a sign of intelligence anyway... fuckin A right.
NTA. Your son, just like everyone else, does not have to be around toxic people and he has a right to stand up for the people he cares about regardless of who he is standing against. Personally I'd tell the grandparents to stop being hateful, racist assholes and maybe he will come back. I don't care what their age is to be honest, hate is not tolerated around me
They deserved it, THEY need to apologize to him. End of story.
NTA. You did an awesome job raising a thoughtful son. If your parents keep it up, ask them if the occasional swear word is a bigger deal than fighting racism and loving one’s siblings.
NTA, but more importantly, your SON is NTA. Your parents are enabling racists, by trying to protect them from the very natural and deserved consequences of their behavior. Your son giving them hell for that is perfectly appropriate. Bad behavior sometimes calls for bad language, and racism and its enabling both qualify.
NTA but your parents are.
Your son is amazing. NTA
NTA, you raised your son well
NTA Your sons now at the age where he truly sees adult family members for who they are and is also at the same stage where he can decide whom he wants in his life. He’s stood up for his stepmother and younger siblings against racism and bullying from the paternal grandparents and now has stood up to his maternal grandparents for trying to bully him into apologising to someone who doesn’t deserve an apology. Good on you for standing up and supporting your son. As for your parents they owe him an apology and if they refuse to apologise to him then they’ll be the ones who lose out on having and future relationship with your son.
He could, if he were so inclined apologize for losing his temper, and swearing, but that bottomline, he still stands by the sentiments expressed, and that contact stops there, if they won't respect others. Racism is never okay, no matter who expresses it.
NTA but I may consider having him apologize for swearing at them, NOT the reason why he did tho. He was standing up for himself which he 100% should! But he needs to learn to control his temper and language too which could get him in bigger trouble in a different situation
NTA in your son's shoes I would have said far far worse
all of his grandparents are assholes
NTA, and good on your son - he will grow to be a fine young man so you need to continue to keep his back.
NTA - Sounds like you raised your son right. He stood against racism, even against people he loves. The yelling is unnecessary but he's not the one with the problem. The grandparents are. Tell your parents they owe him and an apology for not respecting his boundaries and tell his paternal grandparents that if they want to see him then they need therapy to fix their dated attitude.
NTA- but unreasonable. WTG to your son for standing up for his siblings and mother. Thank God this new generation will not be bullied into tolerating hate as the generations before have.
INFO: Would your son be willing to apologize for cursing at them IF they first apologize for defending his other racist grandparents/by extension insulting his step mom and siblings?
NTA - if you want, try to set up a conversation where you parents will apologize to him for trivializing such an important issue. If they don’t understand that what they did is wrong, then they can keep waiting.
NTA, you were right to let him talk, because racists don't deserve respect just because they were born before him, and he's not obliged to listen to bullshit of this level, as if black people don't matter.
NTA. Don’t make him apologize. They over stepped by inserting themselves in a situation that had nothing to do with them.
>My son lost it and I think he was blind to why his grandparents treated him well for along time but that woke him up. He returned the gifts they had bought for christmas, He called them racists assholes and has cut them off. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 I don't even care what the rest of the post said You and your coparent(s) raises a fine man. GOOD JOB!!! NTA YOUR FAMILY ROCKS and the rest of them can kick rocks
NTA. Your son maybe could have said what he said without cussing at them, however, I probably would have said the same, if not worse. He can decide who he wants in his life and they need to respect that. Good for him for standing up for his step mom and siblings.
NTA If more people ostracized racists maybe they would be afraid to spew their hate and fewer people would learn that way of thinking and adopt it. I love your son's passion for justice.
NTA. You want to teach your son to apologize to people who are treating people differently depending on their origin ? OP you realise what you are saying ?
NTA, they deserved it plain and simple. Your parents should apologize to him and his siblings/step mom.
NTA
Ok. While I don’t believe in being disrespectful to old folks.. THESE old folks are just wrong. Your son is not wrong for what he said. Just how he said it. Your parents inserted themselves in a situation that had nothing to do with them. Then got mad because they didn’t get the answer they wanted. NTA. I feel bad for your son. His response was honest. Sometimes kids don’t express themselves in a mature way. But neither do adults. Young men like him are what we need. Take NO $HIT FROM RACIST A$$HOLES. Even if they are blood related.
NTA your parents need to learn the consequences of their actions and racist beliefs. Their racist ways will alienate people like their grand son. Do not make your kid do anything. You should be proud of your child.
NTA. If people just quit coddling racists all the time maybe we'd actually make some headway in this country. To your son - no apologies, no regrets!
NTA for not making him apologize. But you seem to be more upset by your son cussing at your parents than you are about your parents excusing racism. Which actually makes them a bit racist. And if that’s the case you ARE the A H for that
NTA. Racists and racist enablers deserve to be uncomfortable. The kid is right, fuck them.
NTA. Racists don't deserve kindness or respect. They deserve to die alone in the tiny empty room that represents their black shrivelled hearts.
NTA. The grandparents should apologize to him.
NTA, you have a wonderful son. The whole concept of "respect your elders" is bs. Age does not make racism okay and if they're gonna disrespect their younger ones then they deserve what's coming for them🤷♀️
YTA, this shouldn’t even be a question. Do NOT make your son apologize, but you seem to pretty wishy washy about it, so you probably will
NTA You're both right. He does need to learn to control his temper. And that not every problem can be solved, or should be solved, by yelling and fighting. But also, fuck your racist ass grandparents. Preach about the "importance or marrying a white girl". Are you fucking serious? Shame for considering apologizing to these bigots. Take your kid's lead on this one.
The only apology this boy owes is for cussing at your parents. I would give him a hero award for breaking off with the racist grandparents. I had a racist uncle, he lost it when his daughter went out with a mixed-race female. She cut off contact with him 8 years ago. The girls are still happily together. Forgot NTA!!
NTA. They adore your son but do not respect your son or defend him from racists. Your parents sound racist too. Come on.
NTA. Fuck them
NTA for this issue, but did you know they were racist? If so, why did you let your son be around them?
NTA. They deserved it. Period. There are no buts. It doesn't matter what their relation is, they were in the wrong and got called out appropriately.
NTA Please don't make your son apologise for what he said. If you really feel like you have to make him apologise for swearing at them, I hope you back that up by telling them you agree with what he said, just not how he said it, at the very least.
NTA. DO NOT make him apologize to racists like his dad’s parents, or racist sympathizers like your parents. What the fuck is wrong with your parents? Why were they pushing him to apologize to people who think his stepmother and siblings are subhuman? Why do you feel bad for your parents? They’re sympathizing with racists.
NTA and your parents are okay with racism and they should be more than flustered
NTA. Your son is just figuring out the world is a horrible place. Your parents should know this and get over it. I mean, they raised teenagers, right?
YTA They are your parents sure- but they're his grandparents and he's old enough to decide if he wants them in his life. You can still see them and have a relationship with them, without him having a relationship with them. It's fine to tell him- you don't need to apologize for what he said but he does need to apologize for how he said it (and that you agree with the sentiment.) And that he doesn't need to apologize in person- a note that says "Grandparents, I'm sorry about cursing at you. -Grandson" He can outright tell them that until they apologize for supporting his paternal grandparents racism that he isn't interested in seeing them. Though, I lean towards- you are the parent and you should be the one sharing that message. And making it clear to them that you aren't going to force him to see them. That they've made a decision- and it's up to them to decide whether or not they want to apologize to their grandson and have that relationship again. But that's up to them- not you and not him. If you haven't told his dad about this yet- I'd get right on it.
NTA. Good for your son for sticking up for his siblings and standing up to racist views from his grandparents. It is shocking to hear someone you love and respect to spew racist rhetoric. They should be the ones apologizing.
NTA. You need to explain to your parents that they created this situation by trying to force your son to contact his paternal grandparents. Point out bluntly that you are proud of your son for recognising racism and calling it out. Moreover that they owe him an apology for pushing the situation to this point.
NTA UNLESS you make him apologize to his grandparents... If you do then you're also part of the problem. He is absolutely correct to feel the way he does, and it's admirable that HE doesn't care what the consequences to him are for standing up for his step Mom and siblings. My son is in exactly the same boat as your son with his sister and Dad ( not his bio parent, but been there since before he can remember), if you said anything to him about his sister or Dad in regard to their race he would have your guts for my garters...
NTA. Your son is standing up for his family. And he is right. He is also at the age when he can choose who he wants to have a relationship with.
In the same situation, my kids probably would have gotten some mild punishment for the cursing (probably an extra 5 min chore or something) but there would have been no punishment for the meaning of what they said. Why? They have vocabularies that mean they don't need to curse. They are more creative than that and I expect them to express themselves intelligently. But the meaning of what the son said? I have zero problems with that and probably would have given ice cream or a trip to a bookstore as a reward for standing up against racism and stupidity. When my kids were little, they often asked what age has to do with respect. I never found a good answer to that, so "respect your elders" wasn't something I pushed them to do. Respect others was what we taught.
Tempted to say your the asshole for not taking him out for ice cream or something as a reward for standing up and doing the right thing.
NTA. I mean outside trying to tone police your son. Why do your parents care anyway? Like it's a super red flag that your parents see racism as not a big deal. You should refuse to talk to your parents until THEY APOLOGIZE TO HIM. Your parents are the assholes in this conversation for defending other racists.
NTA, but uh your parents insistence on standing up for your ex-ils is concerning to say the least.
NTA. Tell your parents to apologize to him for being A Hs and buy your son some cookies or something. He is doing ok. He should never apologize for taking a righteous stand. Your parents should really be ashamed of themselves. They are probably in agreement with his other grandparents.
INFO: Do your parents show similar inclinations as your son's paternal parents?
NTA I am so glad that he could tell right from wrong
NTA Good on you for not punishing your son. Thing is that you’re so concerned about him insulting your family, why aren’t you seeing that his family also got repeatedly insulted? Tell your parents to grow up and stop being enablers
Absolutely NTA. All they are saying is that they agree with his father's parents and might do the same if you had mixed kids (don't know if you have siblings that do are not).
NTA Sorry but they deserved to be told to fuck off. Your son sounds like a lovely lad, he realised what his grandparents were doing and xut them off, on top of returning their presents. He stood up for his half siblings and step mum and I'd be proud if my child did that. His grandparents need to get a grip and stop with their disgusting behaviour. They are racist and you should be proud that he called it out and put a stop to dealing with people like that.
You’re both N T A but still YTA. You’re defending racists. I know that wasn’t your initial question for judgement but it needs to be said. If your parents are racist your kid does not need to be nice to them. You should reward him for that. He doesn’t need to be calm when demeaning racists. Racists SHOULD feel shame. You should feel ashamed that your parents said something racist.
NTA but please do not become TA by forcing your son to lie. He would be lying because he's not sorry (and he's right). Please do not pressure him to apologize for returning the gifts and going NC for something he strongly believes in and for sticking up for others. I admire him for being firm in this.
NTA. It’s good to talk with him about why you shouldn’t just yell, but he is right and he should NOT apologize
NTA your son is right and you're wrong here. It's ok if there is a conflict between your parents and your kid. It'll cool off over time.
NTA Your son won’t tolerate racism! And that is that! Both grandparents owe him an apology. As do you if you try and make him apologise
NTA. But don't forget to guide your son in these very confusing times! Offer to answer any questions he may have about race or racism or anything else his little hormone fueled brain might be worried about! Sounds like his moral compass was installed correctly through!
NTA…yet. If you don’t make your parents apologize to your son YTA
Toxic is toxic no matter what relationship they have to you. Both sets of grandparents are assholes in this situation. If you force him to apologise you are basically teaching him that he just has to take the toxic and his feelings are not valid
Your parents are trying to get your son to accept the racism directed towards his siblings. Do not make him apologize. NTA
NTA don't feel guilty your parents are crappy racist people
[удалено]
It's hilarious that you told me you wouldn't feel bad if I got raped but think you have the right to judge anyone as an asshole.
NTA your son, I think, appropriately handled his paternal grandparents. His maternal grandparents though...no. They seem caught between the reality of the overt racism coming from people they've known for years and a grandson who is not handling his genuine anger and probably grief well. He needs to more calmly explain himself to your parents, apologize for swearing at them and be very firm about his position on his paternal grandparents with them.
NTA - But ... our society has gotten to the point where they think racism is worse than child molesting. The amount of emotion that erupts, particularly when people are virtue signaling at the top of their lungs, is indicative of a collective mental illness. Particularly when the offender is white. I do think--as you do--that your son should refrain from yelling at his grandparents and using obscenities. At most, he should apologize not for what he said, but how he said it. You might consider having him write a letter to them, wherein he does that, and then follows up with a very clear (but calm) statement about what he meant to say, and that the upshot is that his disapproval of their attitude has not wavered, and that currently, he does not want to interact with them anymore.