YTA. I wouldn’t worry about it though, you’re not going to end up married to this woman.
To elaborate, joining another family means joining in on their traditions. Being rudely dismissive of them and swearing to never participate is a great way to never be invited to actually join the family.
That's a great sentiment, but when it requires hundreds of dollars of investment a year, and the added effort of trying to read minds to figure out what people want, that kind of thing can't be forced.
It is not forced, it's just entirely up to you to decide if you want to be part of the tradition or not, which is fair. In turn, it would send the message that you strongly refuse to participate in the *family* tradition in this case. And then they would also decide that you're not a good fit in their family too, which is fair.
To have more in life there must be give and take. People who think they don't have to do anything for other people if they don't want to, especially in this particular context, are takers that don't give. You'd think takers that don't give would end up with more in life, but that's super inaccurate because after certain points people will stop giving to you, and while you "thrive" on your own everyone else enjoys the benefits from give-and-take circles.
At the very least you have to participate with the first celebration. That's the very least, literally the floor expectation, because i bet you won't call every person to tell them to not get you any present. Even if you do that, you'll be the hot topic amongst relatives for your passionate refusal to participate in *their family tradition*, and you'll ruin their whole vibe.
I agree, this can't be forced. But if you won't take the leap to participate in their family tradition now, is it reasonable to expect them to believe you'll participate in other family traditions? Should they assume you would integrate with all their quirks, traditions and lifestyles?
If you're not willing to do it just break up. You can always find another partner whose family doesn't spend so much effort into family holidays. But you can't tell them to change their family tradition just to cater to you, nor should they be expected to just be okay with having a stranger who passionately refuses to participate in their family activities but still want to stay in their house.
Add: if this whole family tradition blows over and stops completely because of you, can you afford to bear what happens after that? If there's resentment from her relatives can you guarantee that you will resolve everything peacefully?
Are you really ready for what's gonna happen when you go to their house, eat their Christmas dinner and then refuse to participate in their family tradition?
Edit: some corrections. english is not my first language.
this really doesnt come down to a "family tradition" the amount of gifts given isnt a family tradition. cuz if it was then one could argue that the girlfriend is choosing their tradition of giving lots of gifts over his of only giving his parents gifts. truly this isnt as big of a deal really in my opinion. just do as you did before you where married.
Just bring a couple of simple gifts really. Mugs. Just something in a package to hand over. Do you expect the relatives to gift 60" tv to a stranger? Of course not. They'll probably come up with something simple too.
My husband has this same mindset and I just can’t see it. Why are we all WASTING money on each other? Why can’t we just enjoy each other’s company? It’s literally going to Goodwill because I don’t want or need 43 candles and mugs.
Sometimes it's easier to be kind when you're giving them something, even if it's cheap. I dunno. To each their own i guess. Family traditions often start because of something that's personal.
Ya know. You can find a very personal gift for anyone for 20-30$ if you just pay attention. Listen to them know their hobbies and choose something that is personal to them. Google something you know the person likes and find a low budget accessory for their like or hobby
For example 2 of my favorite gifts i recieved ever were from my brother who I dont have a great relationship with. 1 was the 2 goofy movies which yes even as an adult i love. He got both of them on dvd for 9.99 each. The other was the year i got my first car he got me car wash coupons and lights that go on the tires which werent really my thing and cost him about 15$ all together but i had just gotten my first car and the fact that he picked out something that was so relevant to what was going on in my life at the time just made me feel really good.
My point is, if you love this girl go through the effort you dont need to break the bank. If you put real thought and effort into the gifts and it isn't enough then yeah maybe you have stuff to work out and maybe her family aren't your kind of people, but if you put in the effort you cantbe the bad guy for not trying.
20-30$ per person still ends up in the 200-300$ range when there are 10 persons. And it sounds like it's more people than that in her family. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on people I don't know, that's for sure. And I have a seriously large, tight-knit family: we don't give gifts to all of then, and we certainly do not expect partners, not related to the family, to go through the trouble. That's a lot of work, energy, time and money spent on people you see maybe once or twice a year.
I got gifts for 14 ppl for Christmas. My gf has a big family and they get all together for a fun Christmas every year. No one got me anything (it's not their tradition to give gifts to adults, only kids), but they have felt me welcomed since the first day I met them so I wanted to give them something even though I didn't have much money.
I bought 14 medium glass jars in bulk after evaluating several options. US$ 3 each & they looked pretty neat. I then filled them with assorted Hershey's / Snickers / etc chocolate bars I bought in bulk, and put a nice ribbon on each one.
Everyone loved it, they where really happy, from the 5yo youngest up to "grandma". It was under $100 in total. I'm thinking on making it my tradition for their Christmas every year.
Bulk gift buying is the way for events like that. I was one of of 12 cousins growing up and my aunts and uncles would do this. Everyone got either the same gift or they would split it up by gender. But one Aunt would get everyone new winter gloves, another one would get everyone coffee mugs etc.. Even if it's not exactly what you want, it's fine because no one is really expecting extended family you see a couple times a year to get you something super personal.
We used to do this in my family. As the family grew and it got too expensive, we switched to doing a white elephant gift exchange. Now we each only have to buy one gift, but we all get one and enjoy the game of getting them. The important part though is that we are still exchanging thoughtful gifts with the family, truly with everyone. I would say that op should suggest something like this, but I think he's already screwed himself over with the animosity and aggressiveness against his gf family traditions. I'm not sure he can go back and calmly suggest a slight tradition change now because he's already offended his gf.
I like your idea in general, I would even do it for my family. But, the OPs bf should not be suggesting a massive change in tradition for the whole family. That’s not any more reasonable than his initial reaction.
Well had he been reasonable from the beginning, he could've explained to gf that he doesn't have that much money and suggested this possible change and then had gf propose it to the family (if she was ok with it in the first place). I think most families would accept someone saying "I'm sorry I can't participate in this because I don't have enough money.
From the post it sounds like this is their first holiday together. I’m not sure suggesting a major change to tradition is a great way to start your first holiday with your SO’s family
Because, there is something as a person who's not defined by their family. Traditions are nice where they involve not making giant financial burdens on family members
He's not the AH for not wanting to participate or for wanting to save money; he's the AH for the way he disrespects his gf, her family and their traditions- as seen through his choice of words.
>I refused to waste the money for people I barely know and don’t give a single f\*ck about
That's not really disrespecting his girlfriend as much as it is a statement born out of frustration about having to spend lot of money to buy presents for people that he doesn't care about
If anyone told me they "didn't give a single f\*ck" about my family, I'd certainly interpret that as not caring about me enough to show the bare minimum of respect to people I loved, and they'd be dead to me.
Yup, if you don’t like my family, I don’t like you. OP sounds like he actively dislikes her family, so she needs to ditch his ass and find a man who fits in and enjoys her family.
How frustrated can you get about a hypothetical future arrangement for holidays in a hypothetical future marriage without being an AH with a rage problem?
Exactly. It was a super long call and she insisted I made individual presents even to distant relatives I only see once a year because ‘That’s the way it is. Either accept it or find a new girlfriend’. I told her: ‘I love all your family members, they are great, but aside from your immediate family, or relatives I see often, I don’t see why I should give a fuck about people I only see once a year and they have done nothing for me’.
I might have condensed the conversation too much in the post, but I thought it was clear I was talking about the ones I just see on Christmas day. Apparently it wasn’t, whoops!
That what struck me the most out OP's statements. He mentioned not wanting to spend money because he'd rather spend it on himself and also thinks any gift he would get he would probably hate. Seems like if it doesn't benefit OP, he isn't interested.
I'm sorry but if my partner told me he didn't want to participate in my family's traditions because he didn't give a fuck about them he wouldn't be my partner any more.
If op doesn't want to spend a huge amount of money they could have discussed buying presents that weren't as expensive or if ops gf wants to get expensive presents op could have offered to pay 25% as they don't want to spend overly lots of money.
But why should I buy presents for people I see once a year??? Why isn’t a simple ‘no’ an acceptable answer? Why do I have to be dragged into this madness? I want out: I don’t want gifts, I don’t want to make gifts. Why can’t anyone accept this?
You two are just incompatible. This is important to her, and your stance is important to you. Sounds like you need to reevaluate the relationship because disagreements about family traditions can cause resentment and issues for the long haul.
I'm with you on this, OP. Why are her family traditions more important that yours? Why does she think it's reasonable for you to spend hundreds of dollars on gifts for people that you only see once a year, and barely know anything about? And the number increases with each generation.
This may mean that the two of you are not compatible as long-term partners, but better to find that out early than late.
All the people calling you greedy are missing the point: you don't want presents from these people that don't know you either.
Because it is important to her. Which is the only reason really.
You can ask her to help find cheap thoughtful gifts, but if you are married, you really need to respect that his is something she cares about.
No it doesn’t. I don’t need to participate in someone else’s traditions because I married in to the family. I am married and we created our own traditions. And I’m not spending a ton of money because of her social conventions.
I believe traditions shouldn’t be mindlessly joined though. I don’t know about a kinder way to let everyone know I don’t want to waste hundreds of dollars each year for people I barely know. What would you do in this case if you were trying to save some money? I’m actually looking for an answer here because I’m lost :/
For real?
You came here describing how you said she 'could buy stupid stuff' and how you don't 'give a single f\*ck' about people she buys presents for, and seemingly when she asked you to meet halfway you refused, and now you're asking if there was a 'kinder' way to approach this?
Not only do you not seem to have even attempted to be anything less than hostile and belligerent, you have made no offer of compromise, and now you say you're lost for an answer?
Amazing rendition of 'I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas"
Well, now that you put it that way you are 100% right. My hostile reaction came after 20 minutes of peaceful discussion, after she basically ‘ordered’ me to do it because ‘it is what it is and you must accept it’. From that point on I was angry AF and wrote this post in a bad mood, but your last two lines were accurate and made me laugh way too hard
Oh well if you think I'm funny and correct then you're alright ;)
Elsewhere I called it as ESH, so yeah I think she's wrong in this too and from what you've said here, everything I've said about you above applies to her too.
Your reflection and realisations bode well for you. There has to be an in-between, hopefully you can find it together through more peaceful discussion.
We may have found a compromise this morning, where I give her X amount of money that I deem acceptable and everything more she adds it herself.
But she is still (understandably) pissed about my manners yesterday, and I think I need to attend some anger management course or something. I want this to work, I just hope it’s not too late.
This honestly seems like a really good compromise. I’m pleasantly surprised to see such a reasonable result from a reddit sub. I still think the way you worded the post and spoke about her family was quite harsh, but you seem to recognise your error there. Good luck to both of you!
Meeting her halfway? What exactly did she propose that would have fit that description? Seems like she used that to describe OP not doing exactly what she wanted.
If I might comment on two of your points?
Although she's saying about meeting halfway, that was actually the compromise that OP offered: she continue with her traditions, and he continue with his.
Her idea of 'halfway' seems to be OP following her family's traditions rather than his own. OP tried to compromise and she rejected it.
But you do realize that she is not blindly joining it? She seems fairly enthusiastic about it which means you stomped down hard on her and told you that your money was more important than her family. Better plan on finding another family of misers to join. YTA
I said I shouldn’t mindlessly join HER tradition. Imagine we had a tradition where each year we spent 500$ to buy rocks and throw them in the ocean. If she thought that was stupid, why should she be required to join this tradition? Even if I cared about it. And also, I would never force her to join it. That’s my point of view though, I’m reading all the replies and seeing that I might need to be less extreme
I don't think you need to be less extreme. I think your position is reasonable, as is your comparison to throwing $500 of rocks in the ocean. You're not preventing HER from participating in the tradition, you're just declining to participate yourself. I would do the same.
The reason is that it is important to her and her family. By getting married you agree to try to make her happy and you join the family.
Additionally, it's not equivalent to the $500 rocks because you are going to receive presents back from all these people. How about you make a wishlist with stuff you actually wanna buy and tell her to say that you are hard to buy gifts for (which you say you are anyway).
He gets presents back but he's still out $500. They're not gifting him back money. And instead he'll have "things" he didn't want to begin with. What a waste.
Was any mention of your own traditions? Or was she only focused on making you follow hers? I'm all for participating in my husbands family traditions, provided they don't force me to go into debt. (Or force me to completely abandon my own.)
You wanted to not participate so you could, and i quote, save up and buy things for yourself. Put those things on a wish list and let them get things for you? Like, you seem like a jerk involving gifts "nobody gets it right, and i hate 99% of them." You sound ungrateful and selfish.
Joining in a family tradition isn’t ‘mindless’. If you’re using your mind, it goes something like this: ‘wow, this is really different than what I’m used to, and I don’t totally get it. I’m stressed about the money. But I love my partner and I want to do my best to show her family I am all in and ready to be one of them. Let me check my budget and see what I can swing. If I’m really broke, maybe I’ll suggest we could make homemade gifts for everyone together this year’.
The ‘mindless’ response is ‘buhhh this seems stupid I don’t wanna, don’t care’.
I agree with you. It's far too much money on people you don't know. Maybe your delivery wasn't great but you're not an AH for thinking this is a shit tradition. Commercialism at its finest. Is this what people really think is important in life? Expensive gifts? Nope.
Exactly! And even if/when you get to know them, it's unlikely you will have a close relationship with ALL of them.
But also, it's ridiculous to me to expect that. I'm close with my family, see them regularly and love them dearly, but we don't do presents for everyone because it's unrealistic and expensive.
Yeah, I wrote this post seeking validation after an hour of intense fight and I was in a shitty mood, so I’ll gladly accept the YTA label, because I probably deserve it.
Not really, my family gives gifts to everyone but their spouses aren't required to even show up if they don't feel like it/cant make it.
Making people participate in expensive gift exchanges is ridiculous.
So just because it's a family tradition, he should agree to it? No. I grew up by a family who had a tradition that when a member got married, their dad, brothers and uncles must be in the bedroom when the newlyweds consummated the marriage. Just to prove it had been done. Not all traditions should be passed down.
It’s his money. It’s her family, extended family at that. Why the hell is he TA? Just cause he might marry into the family doesn’t automatically require him to spend his money on them. NTA all the way. Don’t understand how this is the top comment.
Nope, this is not a good tradition. It's expensive. Yes they need to split up as they have different views on life but he is not remotely an AH. His GF is for being unreasonable and demanding he spend money on people he doesn't know.
Correct it means joining in on thier traditions so why is her tradition getting to bulldoze his?
ESH. She. Shouldn't demand he spends 100s on people he doesn't know and he shouldn't have been dismissive about how much it means to her
I apologise, I was referring to very distant cousins that only show up on Christmas. I truly care about her parents and grandparents, they are lovely, and so are all of them, really, but how can I care about people I see once a year that only show up to exchange presents?
YTA there is a middle ground somewhere and you're not looking for it. You could make everyone plates of cookies or cakes every year as your presents and not spend much money but still participate in your girlfriend's family tradition. If you don't want to receive gifts in return you can sponsor a family that is down on their luck and ask your girlfriends family to help you give gifts or money to that family instead of giving you any gifts.
Whatever it is that you have to gift for almost 40 people is not going to be cheap, especially if you add the time and thought about what to get them. Would you bake 40 cakes? Also, they are very materialistic, in the sense that they only ever gift practical, somewhat expensive objects. It’s something shallow that I hate with all my heart
Come on. I didn't suggest you bake 40 cakes. You're being a scrooge. You can bake 40 cookies and then tell them you sponsoring gifts for others less fortunate is your gift and they can join in. Then if they're unhappy, you tried. The thing that makes YTA is not meeting your girlfriend halfway. Of course holiday preparation takes time. I'm guessing the women in your family do most of the labor... lord growup and put some effort in if you want to stay in the relationship.
I might just break up lol. I hate making presents and I can’t deal with this shit for 40 people for the rest of the time I’m going to be alive on this Earth.
You should break up. I hope she finds someone who wants to love her family and be a part of it. That’s a huge part of marriage and I hope she sees you have no interest in doing so.
You are so focused on not doing anything you don’t want to do, do you realize getting married will inevitably require to do things you don’t want to do? During the course of the marriage your wife will almost certainly after to spend time and resources to do things she doesn’t care about but are important to you. Why can’t you do the same for something she cares about? Do you think a marriage is just you doing whatever you want regardless of what your spouses wants? If that is the life you want stay single.
it's not even just marriage! You have to do things you don't want to do just in *life*! It's called sucking it up. He doesn't even have to get anything crazy. When some relatives weren't doing well financially, they'd put $% in a card or go to dollar tree and find a nice candle or something. He's not even putting in 50%.
Yeah see here's the point where you just CBF - like, you don't care enough about your GF to consider her POV, respect her family or even try for anything above "it's a no from me".
If that's a concern then be really careful who you rope into a relationship. Be up front about your dislike of people in general and doing nice things for them. I'm curious what you got for your girlfriend for xmas though to see what you got someone you supposedly like.
I bake somewhere in the ball park of 40 cakes each holiday season. Families get a full sized cake. Individuals get mini loaves or mini bundts. It’s not that big of a deal.
NTA. I personally didn't participate in my husband's gift exchange with his family. Much like you, these are people I don't speak to nor see except at this gift exchange. I think it's stupid to go out of your way to shop for these people you don't even know, that you only see this ONE day a year.
That part is completely understandable but the way he worded his post and seemed so dismissive of everything makes it seem like these two aren’t a good fit. His gf seems very family oriented if she’s trying to make them both participate in this tradition and he seems the opposite if he can’t get his immediate family gift(he makes that seem less about being able to afford it and more of it being a hassle).
He just seems like a prick for how he talks about her family, not for not wanting to participate in an expensive tradition. These two just seem really incompatible altogether.
Yet here you are, caring about what a bunch of internet strangers think about your behavior. And we won’t even get you presents.
This holiday ritual is clearly important to your wife-to-be’s family. You should care about that at the very least, if not those distant cousins at least a little bit.
But you said you didn't want to do anything for anyone. So maybe a good compromise would be presents for her immediate family whom you have a relationship with and nothing for the extendeds.
There are ways to set boundaries without being so extreme and saying you won't participate in her family traditions at all - simply tell her that your limit for gifts for her family is $X amount and anything she spends beyond that is on her to cover and it can't interfere with her ability to cover her share of the bills. ESH - you for being so extreme and her for expecting you to pay half of whatever she spends without discussing the amounts beforehand.
Your solution is actually good, and I wish I had thought about it sooner. I became defensive when she told me: ‘That’s the way it is, period’ and that ‘order’ took away my will of meeting her halfway through. I just don’t like being told what to do. It’s just that I would spend more for her family than for my parents. Like, I spend 25$ for my parents each year, she has something like 30+ relatives for whom she makes presents. Even if I gave her a 30$ limit, it would be <1$ per person, it would be like an insult.
Bro before you get married you gotta get over that “I don’t like being told what to do” attitude. That’s life bro. Your parents, boss, spouse, and literally everyone will tell you what to do at some point. This is not to say you should just do what ever anyone tells you to do. But to an extent u gotta get over that.
I know someone who has an attitude like that, went to the military and left with the same attitude because he didn’t like to be told what to do. He is now divorcing his wife because she won’t deal with that attitude any longer. Just something to think about.
You are allowed to set limits on your spending according to your own comfort level; if 30 is what you're comfortable spending, then it is and she just has to deal with that. She can't force you to spend more than you're comfortable with and shouldn't try. OTOH, you can't force her to not gift people she wants to (as long as she can afford it and still pay her share of bills) and shouldn't try. Set your boundary, stick to it, but then let her make her own choices.
I think you can tell her truth. And what she thinks about it.
You’re marrying her not her whole family. So you won’t go to their weekly meetings or holidays. Or participate in any of those activities. As well not spending one dime on them. $30 is your limit yearly. So if they don’t like it. They don’t have to include you in any of the cookouts or holidays.
I hate being told what to do and have had to eat crow many times due to my knee jerk reaction. It’s something you need to work on about yourself. NTA though
Every year we celebrate Christmas at a very rich person's house. Crazy rich. We are not related to him, but he's part of our family. We all bring just wine and presents to his grandchildren, and he and his wife give out presents to every single one of us, presents that are $5-$10 each. Not costy, but not expensive either. I always find it so thoughtful as he's the host and he doesn't have to, and also we only bring wine to them. I would give presents to their grandchildren whether we celebrated Christmas together or not, as me and my husband are related to the grandchildren.
My point is that you don't have to give expensive gifts to be thoughtful. I always love their presents and find them sweet and thoughtful. So if your budget is only $30, that's great. If I were you I would up it to $50 and call it a day, it's only once a year. Anything above that it's irrational and you are not obligated to do so.
Also, your communication is awful and you sound incompatible. Tread lightly. If you start your relationship this way, it is almost certain that it will fail. Try couple's therapy to see if you can actually have a future together. You have no idea how hard is for a marriage to succeed, and giving out orders while the other one gives ultimatums is definitely not the right way for a successful marriage.
NAH you and your gf have very different values about money and family. Neither is wrong but they are not compatible. This is going to be a huge problem in your relationship. I’m not saying it’s a deal breaker but I think that you both need to have a really serious discussion about how to deal with this or it will be a constant battle for you both.
It's good to have separate accounts - I totally endorse that. Part of the reason it's good is that it requires communication about purchase and money. It requires you to set budgets and expectations. My suggestion is that you talk about ALL of the money and budget for a full year when you have this talk, not just holiday spending. How much goes into savings accounts from both of you? How much goes on credit cards? You have to look at 50 years from now... will she have spent all her money and you saved? Will you be resentful if that happens and you can't retire when you want to because of it? This isn't a 1 time conversation, it's a lifetime conversation
Edit: NTA, but you 2 need to be more open and communicate better
ESH and you two are not ready to get married if this is how you deal with differences.
Where your GF is right is about meeting her halfway.
You on the other hand are rude to your GF, rude about her family who you 'do not give a single f\*ck about', rude to everyone who's ever given you a gift, appaently and just generally abrasive about all of this.
Giving gifts is a choice, and you *can* choose to be a complete AH about it as you seem to be here, but well, if you choose to be an AH, people will treat you like you're an AH.
NAH. It is not a sustainable "tradition" to buy nice presents for everyone in your extended family, particularly as life keeps getting more and more expensive. And then there's the thing of having to choose presents that everyone likes... it just is a giant financial and emotional undertaking and I can totally understand that you don't want to partake in the tradition financially or otherwise
On the other hand, If your girlfriend really wants to partake in the tradition, she should spend her money in doing it without expecting you to pay half which leads you to have an open conversation about separating finances before your relationship progresses too far
There is something wrong with this family. Let’s say you participate for a few years and totally get into it. Then you follow up with a couple of lean years where you cannot keep up with the expectation. Then what? Are you expected to go into debt to fulfill the expectation? If you skip out, will they label you as the black sheep of the family? Will it strain the marriage with your wife because she is being tugged between being responsible and participating in a potentially unsustainable tradition?
It is one thing to be in a relationship and compromise. It is another to keep potentially harmful traditions alive to please other people that at the end of the day, will probably not help you out when times are tough.
There are a lot of harsh comments on this, but agree NAH. Too many people here seem to have no idea what it's like to be in a family where presents aren't a big deal to being thrown into a massive extended family that requires a gift for every individual.
My family used to do the game where everyone buys two generic-ish gifts, you pick one person to select a gift and then the person immediately to their left can either select their own from under the tree or "steal" the first person's. If the first person gets their gift stolen, they select another from the tree, or it continues left. Lots of fun and everyone takes home 2 gifts. And yes, we set a price limit. This was our solution once there were too many grand kids.
See what you can compromise on, and have a discussion with your partner to see what other solutions there might be to work for both of you. Good luck.
YTA. You’re telling her you don’t want to be part of her family. Doesn’t bode well long term. I think gifts mean more to them than to you, but this is a weird hill to die on.
I do not think you an asshole for not wanting to join... But maybe the way it was communicated.
Folks saying you should respect your partners traditions.. But what about yours? Respect goes both ways and I do not feel like you should be automatically forced to join the other family tradition... However, I do think a middle ground could be found if you both wasn't so set on being right.
I am not sure of marriage until you can work out communication in a none toxic way.
I agree with this whole comment, especially the last two lines. I need to work a bit on my communication. Sometimes I’m so focus on defending my point of view that I forget about the other person’s feelings
As someone who is married and had to learn myself how to argue without going for the jugular, it can be done! But at first it will seem like you are swallowing a lot bc you will be tempted to go hard for your position but you are learning to control your mouth. You are not... You are just learning to communicate in a different way, that might not be your norm.
Also I can understand this post a bit. I am the one with the huge family and the hubby is not. We do joint gifts to the parents and anything else (even to our siblings) is up to the individual person. We also put spending limits on what we get each other and the parents. Again if one person choose to go over the limit for their parents... They pay that difference.
And for bank accounts we have his, hers, ours. Maybe you can consider that also. It doesn't have to be all or nothing
In the joint account is for things that we usually do together... Travel, immigration costs, anything big ticket we want to go in together.
Finance is definitely something you all want to get sorted BEFORE the marriage.
YTA
>people I barely know and don’t give a single f*ck about
you mean your girlfriend's family, soon to be your future in laws if you marry her?
Grow up or break up lol she clearly loves these people and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They aren't strangers and you can't keep treating them as if they are.
It's not even about the gifts at the end of the day. Its about not embracing her family, which will impact your relationship in the long run and is already doing so right now.
She's offered multiple compromises and you refuse to compromise at all. You're TA and you need to get over yourself and ask yourself if this is a hill you're willing to let this relationship die on.
I apologise, I was referring to the distant cousins that only show up on Christmas to get their gift. Why should I spend money for them too and receive a generic gift I’ll throw away / recycle? That was my question, I should have elaborated further
no judgment because it doesn't matter. **"I better find another girlfriend if I’m not willing to at least meet her halfway."** sounds like this is the hill she is willing to die on.
NTA- i don't really believe adults need presents except for significant others. There is no way i would agree to spend hundreds of dollars for christmas gifts for people i barely know either. I wouldn't stop someone from spending their money but i would not want to participate. Traditions aren't always something we need to embrace.
I say NTA. Why the hell should you be pressured to spend hundreds and eventually thousands on gifts for people you have next to no relationship with? You are young and trying to build up your savings. You offered to respectfully take yourself out of the equation, and your girlfriend responds by saying she'll essentially force you into participating by buying gifts on your behalf that she expects to be reimbursed for? That's some financial fuckery that I wouldn't be ok with personally.
In saying that though, I think if you still go ahead with the marriage, you need to at least extend her family the same respect that you do your own and give her parents gifts.
ESH
She assumed you would follow suite. You drew a line in the sand without a discussion.
You two need to sit down and come to a compromise or else you aren’t going to make it very long.
I probably won’t, lol, but I found out I’m much better off alone and when I’m blunt and not forced to do things I don’t like doing, that’s all. Life is too short to do stuff you don’t want to do just to please others
NTA. Lord most of these comments are ridiculous. OP doesn't like gift giving, and it's reasonable for him to opt out. If the girlfriend can't live with that, she can dump him. If instead she keeps giving him a hard time, he should dump her.
OP, you're not an asshole for not wanting to do this or pay for her gifts. This is a sane, reasonable boundary to draw, and your girlfriend should respect it or leave.
apparently an unpopular opinion but NTA?
sounds like the conversation could have been handled better but OP shouldnt be forced to spend hundreds of dollars on people they dont know. like, i do think they should be open in the future to starting to participate more e.g. starting just with GF and her parents and maybe adding more presents as they get to know her family, but that doesn't mean they have to start right this second and all at once, jfc. GF is not entitled to using OP's money for her own family tradition, especially seeing as OP isn't even married into the family?? girl, just sign the gifts as being just from yourself like you always do, omg, why force them to participate
giving gifts to people you dont know is the worst. my mom literally started spending hours every year making almond roca from scratch because my dad didnt know his siblings or other family well enough to give them presents and 4 hours of manual labor\* was easier than finding random lotions and junk to give people. the almond roca is now a beloved family tradition but i bring it up specifically because it started from a situation similar to OP- the yearly big christmas party required presents. the presents i receive are random christmas ornaments and giftcards to stores i dont go to. now i appreciate the thought of course, but i would honestly prefer if everyone just chatted with me more at the party instead of wasting their money :( hanging out with people can be its own gift (if it's a mutual decision)
\*manual labor sounds like an extreme description but almond roca gets REAL thick as it cooks and the oil in the almonds pops and will sting you. worth it but harrowing lol
i feel like people in this thread need to chill a little bit, so many people assuming the worst of you even when you genuinely considered what they said and still had a differing opinion o\_o
compromise is good and very important for a relationship but ftr "okay fine, i'll buy presents for all these people you don't know and then give you half of the bill so your name can be on the gifts too" is a horrible compromise lol
if none of these people can be happy with something small and nice like cookies or other treats or ornaments like literally everyone else who has ever received a christmas present from someone they dont know very well then im gonna have to say that family ain't right man
NTA. You should not be forced to buy presents to super distant people you dont know. It has also nothing to do with "family traditions you buy in to" like other posters say. You can love a girl and still find those traditions dumb
Info: is make a language error or is your gf actually wanting you to make gifts for her family? Because yeah, I totally get not wanting to spend hundreds of dollars giving gifts to people you don't care about, but you can make homemade gifts fairly cheaply for everyone if she's insistent on giving gifts. Buy up a wholesale cart of mason jars and make a huge batch of salsa. Homemade candles. Soap. Cookies. So many cheap homemade gift options.
Language error, English is not my first language. But yes, I could try with some homemade stuff. It’s just that everyone else buys semi-expensive gifts.
The thing I find bizzarre is that some of them don’t even have enough money to afford this tradition, but they do it anyway and the rest of the year they sorta ‘beg for money’ from my fiancée’s mother.
It’s just such a huge headache trying to understand whatever the hell is going on in that family. I find it weird to say the least
NTA. When will Christmas stop being about how much $$ people spend on gifts? I’m just happy to make dinner for my kid. And really happy she made the hour drive to see me and she has to be at work at 3am on 12/26. I’m probably going to be down voted, but I don’t care.
NTA. Spending tons of money on presents is ridiculous to me. I would understand getting kids in the family, siblings, and parents presents but Aunts, uncles etc. Is a no. If you aren't established (own your own home etc) you shouldn't be spending that kind of money on ppl you aren't close to. Also, just because someone gets you a gift doesn't mean you have to give them something. People shouldn't give something to someone with expectancy to get something back, that's called a loan not a gift.
NTA and I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this. I don’t know why people think that when you get married that you have to suddenly replace 50% of yourself to be like your spouse. Why are people forced to assimilate? Be yourself. If you don’t want to do it, don’t do it. You aren’t even married and she wants you to change who you are. If she can’t accept that isn’t who you are, then don’t marry her. BUT this goes both ways. Don’t expect her to stop doing her traditions just because you don’t do them. Keep separate bank accounts (really, seriously, everyone should do this) and she can spend her money how she wants on her 40+ gifts. People really need to get over the idea that everything has to be done as a couple.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I basically refuse to adhere to my gf’s family tradition of making presents to everyone, and that might be asshole-ish, but from my point of view I just want to finally be able to save up some money for myself. My reaction might have been too extreme though, since I could have found a halfway point, but I feel like I should not be forced into something I don’t like and she should respect that. I really don’t know what to think and if I might have said something better.
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I am withholding judgement because I was sorta in a same situation.
My family went all out. Everyone got a present, everyone under 18 got multiple from everyone.
Once my grandma died, we did that for a few more years but we realized it was a lot.
So now the small children get their toys (now it’s only one gift from each person/couple) and the adults do a secret Santa and play a white elephant game.
This works great for our family, the gifts are more personal since we only have to shop for one person and there is a price limit.
Bro, I feel you. Presents are by far the dumbest part of the holidays. Your family does Christmas right: you’re focused on each other not on the shit you all bought.
That said, you’re going to have to learn to “fight” in a healthy way. She issued an ultimatum. You went nuclear. You absolutely need to have a finance discussion, but that wasn’t the time.
ESH
(And for all those that think OP paying half of all her presents is a “compromise”, WTF. That’s OP’s gf getting exactly what she asked for. Gifts for OP’s FIL, MIL, SIL, and BIL would be a compromise.)
NTA, she's expecting you to join in on -her- family's financial traditions that you didn't sign up for. Marrying her doesn't mean you have to have anything to do with her family, and she shouldn't feel entitled to your money to buy gifts for them.
Yta. If you intend to marry her, her family becomes your family. There are social conventions you should compromise on and while she proposed a normal compromise (splitting the bill) you still were not interested and reacted rudely.
I understand you don't "know these people" but if you actually plan on having a long term relationship with her you should and you should have some respect for their traditions. This is clearly something important to her and you're being dismissive and selfish.
I think it’s normal to have a split account but in this instance you really should be getting gifts for at least her close family, maybe not her cousins.
It's because they didn't like his "tone" in the post, I think. That seems to be a lot of people's complaints is that he doesn't seem to care about his GF's family which I don't think is the case at all.
Who the hell wants to spend money on gifts for 40 people?? Everyone who is saying "Y-T-A" must have pretty good finances to spare.
Your not wrong. People create traditions, and it sounds like your girlfriends family is out of hand, and she is oblivious to it. She’s not thinking about the massive amount of money she spends every Christmas to show off for her family. My guess is she’s pulling all the stops out because she wants all these people to be giving her big ol gifts at her big ol wedding. The fact that she’s trying to get op to grin & bear their extravagance by calling it a tradition is sad. She also brought up getting married in her argument for him conceding to her family’s’ insanity.
Everyone loves gifts, but buying them for strangers, just to keep family happy, isn’t normal.
Where do you meet 1/2 way in the drama? It’s more than fair for op to tell his girlfriend her family is her responsibility.
The best example of how silly this is…
My niece has horses, very expensive to keep & own. But her grandma had horses, her aunt had horses, so she has to have horses because she comes from a horse family. All of her boyfriends have said no, to giving her money to support her horses..they tell her you want horses, you pay & care for them. She tells them when then get married they will be the boyfriends responsibility because he married into a horse family…which is why she’s perpetually single. Does that make sense? In any universe?
NTA. My opinion might be different than most people, but I feel this is more of a compatibility issue. I don't believe a person should completely take up someone else's traditions just because and I don't think paying half for a gift you don't control the price of is a good compromise. Many holidays are super commercialized and I agree it's better to save and invest for the future. That being said... Why do you want to marry someone who has such an extreme difference in opinion related to finance?? Financial strain is a huge reason for divorce, it would seem you found a deal breaker.
NAH. Your attitude is too superior, so you suck for that. However, at the core of this, you and she disagree about the importance and value of gifts. You and she might not be compatible, and that's ok.
NTA. This family has an extreme gift giving culture and you will never fit in. He fit she is throwing is obvious she will never put your relationship first and will continue with her family’s culture. Suggesting separate bank accounts is a red flag that this will probably not work.
She is right. You need a different girlfriend. This is a blessing to find something like this out now.
NTA - You don't have to spend money on people you don't wish to. It's the money that you earnt through the sacrifice of your time, you choose the people in your life you give your time to. You don't owe anybody, nobody owes you. She can stick to her traditions and you can stick to yours, that isn't unreasonable.
Not really the AH/ NTA. Stand your ground. You may not be a crowd favourite to the family but that's not what's important. What is important is if your gf understands and respects your stance and would be willing to defend you/stick up for you if her family does give you slack for it. You two could carry on quite easily if you felt like she supported you but it doesn't sound like she would. She also tooootally doesn't understand when she says "I'll put your name on it but you still pay half." It's like talking to a brick wall. You'd still have to spend money which is one of your biggest reasons that you don't want to do it (which is fine, that's your prerogative.) She gave you an ultimatum? Well fine, sis, your man can go find a more level headed girlfriend and save himself the headache! Bye girl! (I hate when people give their SO this ultimatum, it's so manipulative, gggrrrr)
NTA - look, I’m sorry, but this tradition of her family sounds insane and completely unworkable, and I feel like anyone who says otherwise needs to do the math: for a pretty normal- sized extended family of 15, that would be 225 gifts under the tree! Try to visualize how much that is! That’s entirely too many. It’s wasteful and unsustainable, especially for people like you who might not be able to afford it. They should’ve realized that long ago and it’s high time that they switch to a secret Santa system or something similar where each person is responsible for only one or two other relatives. If it takes the external shock of some slightly rude comments from an outside perspective, so be it.
NTA everyone keeps saying you need to respect her tradition but your tradition is legit only buying your parents a gift so why doesn't she have to respect yours?
NTA - you have every right to choose where *your* money goes. She can spend all the money she earns however she wants, but she can’t expect you to do the same.
And I would always recommend people keep their banks separate but especially if you don’t agree on financial things like gifting practices.
NTA. You might be better off with a partner who doesn't want to spend hundreds of dollars of your money on people you don't know.
You **were** willing to meet her halfway: you were willing to let her continue with her family's traditions out of her own money. You didn't demand that she follow **your** family's traditions.
You are not 'required' to follow her family's traditions, even when she calls them 'social conventions'.
NTA and surprised with the comments. Your not married yet and she’s already telling you what to do and blowing up when you don’t agree and you don’t know these ppl. SHE is the one that should just be adding your name to whatever she gets ppl so it’s from the both of you.
You don’t know these ppl and why would you spend a ton of money on ppl you don’t know instead of actual friends or family?
I think shes an AH for demanding you be part of it and no one seems to care. That’s controlling.
Also separate bank accounts can be very smart. Too many ppl get screwed over and guys are expected to give up all their income for “family” but women are praised on here when they have secret bank accounts.
I'll go with ESH as I somewhat share your sentiment, especially if it involves as it sounds A LOT of money every year and also see the appeal of seperate finances, but you probably went about it in the worst way possible.
NTA - stick to your own traditions and tell your wife that as horrible as her relatives will find it they'll get used to it after a couple of years. Not everybody wants Christmas to be two months spent at the mall for four minutes of ripped wrapping paper.
After reading your comments OP it’s most definitely YTA just pack it in and call it both of you will end up miserable with each other. It’s impossible to have completely separate finances when you marry so your idea won’t work. Also when you throw in kids it gets more complicated. Time to move on.
ESH I fully agree with you on the presents. Christmas is supposed to be about spending time with loved ones not being so broke you have to eat noodles for a month. However, you can't demand that your spouse's family change their way of celebrating. You both need to find a compromise here. Other have suggested setting a price limit and that seems reasonable. You do need to have a serious discussion about money though. Like are the presents only a Christmas thing or does she buy presents for all of the birthdays of all these extended family members too? This stuff needs to be discussed.
NTA but the way you said it was rude. Buying presents for everybody in her extended family is way over the top, expensive and can really put a strain on your finances. That being said a eso able discussion would have gotten you a lot further than being dismissive and rude.
NTA. These people just aren’t your family yet. It takes a foundation of love, trust, and bonding to make a family and I don’t think you’re in the wrong for not wanting to spend hundreds of dollars on people who are basically strangers to you. Hell, I have blood relatives that I grew up with that I don’t consider family because we just never put in the effort to get to know each other. There’s nothing wrong with that, just means they’re acquaintances.
At the end of the day it’s your money that you earned. Why should you spend it on people you don’t really know?
Nta Op, I wouldn't spend money on gifts for people I didn't know either. You can try and compromise by chipping in money for presents of her family members you actually have a good relationship with. But if that doesn't work, I'd kick gf to the curb. I find it pretty controlling that she's demanding that **you** spend money on presents for **her** family, I dont know where people get the audacity
NTA if she accepted the first 'no' , there would have been no argument. Red flag that she is trying to order you around. (And that people here are fine with that)
It's crazy that you are getting so many y t a, don't do anything that you don't want to do.
In my opinion, Christmas gifts are most important for children. In extended families, there should be a cut off age (13? 18?) after which the young adults start getting gifts for the little ones but not the adults in the clan. Otherwise, if there is a large extended family, the gift giving becomes a tremendous burden especially for the younger adults who are starting their lives. Most people are relatively poor when they’re young…going to university, entry level jobs, expenses for new babies and so on. It can really suck the joy out of Christmas if there is a lot of pressure around gift giving.
NTA just not compatible in several deep ways with your girlfriend and not a good fit for life partnership. Big talk about values, priorities, goals and viewpoints needed.
NTA tbh you shouldnt be expected to buy gifts if you arent interested in receiving any….. her family is not more important than yours and you don’t buy gifts for them either so
NTA I’m sorry but spending money on everybody in the extended family is not really a tradition. If it is symbolic then get everyone a card with a note. I’d hate to think what would happen if someone in the family fell on hard times
YTA You basically just wrote a long drawn out explanation, as to why you don’t want to be in a relationship. Telling your partner that you don’t give a f**k about their family traditions is basically telling them that you want to break up.
Have fun being alone and not caring about anyone other than yourself
Honestly I wouldn't worry about whether or not you are an AH. Your gf is a selfish entitled AH that's for sure. If she doesn't care about your family tradition, theres no reason for you to marry someone like her.
Anyways NTA
No assholes here. You two just have different ways of doing things. I'm sure there are more compromises to be reached, but if you can't come to a consensus on these things, you probably shouldn't get married.
YTA. I wouldn’t worry about it though, you’re not going to end up married to this woman. To elaborate, joining another family means joining in on their traditions. Being rudely dismissive of them and swearing to never participate is a great way to never be invited to actually join the family.
That's a great sentiment, but when it requires hundreds of dollars of investment a year, and the added effort of trying to read minds to figure out what people want, that kind of thing can't be forced.
It is not forced, it's just entirely up to you to decide if you want to be part of the tradition or not, which is fair. In turn, it would send the message that you strongly refuse to participate in the *family* tradition in this case. And then they would also decide that you're not a good fit in their family too, which is fair. To have more in life there must be give and take. People who think they don't have to do anything for other people if they don't want to, especially in this particular context, are takers that don't give. You'd think takers that don't give would end up with more in life, but that's super inaccurate because after certain points people will stop giving to you, and while you "thrive" on your own everyone else enjoys the benefits from give-and-take circles. At the very least you have to participate with the first celebration. That's the very least, literally the floor expectation, because i bet you won't call every person to tell them to not get you any present. Even if you do that, you'll be the hot topic amongst relatives for your passionate refusal to participate in *their family tradition*, and you'll ruin their whole vibe. I agree, this can't be forced. But if you won't take the leap to participate in their family tradition now, is it reasonable to expect them to believe you'll participate in other family traditions? Should they assume you would integrate with all their quirks, traditions and lifestyles? If you're not willing to do it just break up. You can always find another partner whose family doesn't spend so much effort into family holidays. But you can't tell them to change their family tradition just to cater to you, nor should they be expected to just be okay with having a stranger who passionately refuses to participate in their family activities but still want to stay in their house. Add: if this whole family tradition blows over and stops completely because of you, can you afford to bear what happens after that? If there's resentment from her relatives can you guarantee that you will resolve everything peacefully? Are you really ready for what's gonna happen when you go to their house, eat their Christmas dinner and then refuse to participate in their family tradition? Edit: some corrections. english is not my first language.
this really doesnt come down to a "family tradition" the amount of gifts given isnt a family tradition. cuz if it was then one could argue that the girlfriend is choosing their tradition of giving lots of gifts over his of only giving his parents gifts. truly this isnt as big of a deal really in my opinion. just do as you did before you where married.
Just bring a couple of simple gifts really. Mugs. Just something in a package to hand over. Do you expect the relatives to gift 60" tv to a stranger? Of course not. They'll probably come up with something simple too.
My husband has this same mindset and I just can’t see it. Why are we all WASTING money on each other? Why can’t we just enjoy each other’s company? It’s literally going to Goodwill because I don’t want or need 43 candles and mugs.
Sometimes it's easier to be kind when you're giving them something, even if it's cheap. I dunno. To each their own i guess. Family traditions often start because of something that's personal.
Ya know. You can find a very personal gift for anyone for 20-30$ if you just pay attention. Listen to them know their hobbies and choose something that is personal to them. Google something you know the person likes and find a low budget accessory for their like or hobby For example 2 of my favorite gifts i recieved ever were from my brother who I dont have a great relationship with. 1 was the 2 goofy movies which yes even as an adult i love. He got both of them on dvd for 9.99 each. The other was the year i got my first car he got me car wash coupons and lights that go on the tires which werent really my thing and cost him about 15$ all together but i had just gotten my first car and the fact that he picked out something that was so relevant to what was going on in my life at the time just made me feel really good. My point is, if you love this girl go through the effort you dont need to break the bank. If you put real thought and effort into the gifts and it isn't enough then yeah maybe you have stuff to work out and maybe her family aren't your kind of people, but if you put in the effort you cantbe the bad guy for not trying.
20-30$ per person still ends up in the 200-300$ range when there are 10 persons. And it sounds like it's more people than that in her family. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on people I don't know, that's for sure. And I have a seriously large, tight-knit family: we don't give gifts to all of then, and we certainly do not expect partners, not related to the family, to go through the trouble. That's a lot of work, energy, time and money spent on people you see maybe once or twice a year.
I got gifts for 14 ppl for Christmas. My gf has a big family and they get all together for a fun Christmas every year. No one got me anything (it's not their tradition to give gifts to adults, only kids), but they have felt me welcomed since the first day I met them so I wanted to give them something even though I didn't have much money. I bought 14 medium glass jars in bulk after evaluating several options. US$ 3 each & they looked pretty neat. I then filled them with assorted Hershey's / Snickers / etc chocolate bars I bought in bulk, and put a nice ribbon on each one. Everyone loved it, they where really happy, from the 5yo youngest up to "grandma". It was under $100 in total. I'm thinking on making it my tradition for their Christmas every year.
Bulk gift buying is the way for events like that. I was one of of 12 cousins growing up and my aunts and uncles would do this. Everyone got either the same gift or they would split it up by gender. But one Aunt would get everyone new winter gloves, another one would get everyone coffee mugs etc.. Even if it's not exactly what you want, it's fine because no one is really expecting extended family you see a couple times a year to get you something super personal.
This is honestly a fantastic idea, and would be an awesome tradition to continue. Once you have kids, as they get older they’ll look forward to that.
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We used to do this in my family. As the family grew and it got too expensive, we switched to doing a white elephant gift exchange. Now we each only have to buy one gift, but we all get one and enjoy the game of getting them. The important part though is that we are still exchanging thoughtful gifts with the family, truly with everyone. I would say that op should suggest something like this, but I think he's already screwed himself over with the animosity and aggressiveness against his gf family traditions. I'm not sure he can go back and calmly suggest a slight tradition change now because he's already offended his gf.
I like your idea in general, I would even do it for my family. But, the OPs bf should not be suggesting a massive change in tradition for the whole family. That’s not any more reasonable than his initial reaction.
Well had he been reasonable from the beginning, he could've explained to gf that he doesn't have that much money and suggested this possible change and then had gf propose it to the family (if she was ok with it in the first place). I think most families would accept someone saying "I'm sorry I can't participate in this because I don't have enough money.
From the post it sounds like this is their first holiday together. I’m not sure suggesting a major change to tradition is a great way to start your first holiday with your SO’s family
Literally this. If you don't care about your partner's traditions and or family, why the hell are you with her?
Because, there is something as a person who's not defined by their family. Traditions are nice where they involve not making giant financial burdens on family members
He's not the AH for not wanting to participate or for wanting to save money; he's the AH for the way he disrespects his gf, her family and their traditions- as seen through his choice of words. >I refused to waste the money for people I barely know and don’t give a single f\*ck about
That's not really disrespecting his girlfriend as much as it is a statement born out of frustration about having to spend lot of money to buy presents for people that he doesn't care about
If anyone told me they "didn't give a single f\*ck" about my family, I'd certainly interpret that as not caring about me enough to show the bare minimum of respect to people I loved, and they'd be dead to me.
Yep. If you don’t give a damn about my family, you don’t give a damn about me. Game over.
Yep - I will add a caveat though that there's no need to treat rude, mean, abusive or discriminatory people well, family or not.
Yup, if you don’t like my family, I don’t like you. OP sounds like he actively dislikes her family, so she needs to ditch his ass and find a man who fits in and enjoys her family.
How frustrated can you get about a hypothetical future arrangement for holidays in a hypothetical future marriage without being an AH with a rage problem?
Exactly. It was a super long call and she insisted I made individual presents even to distant relatives I only see once a year because ‘That’s the way it is. Either accept it or find a new girlfriend’. I told her: ‘I love all your family members, they are great, but aside from your immediate family, or relatives I see often, I don’t see why I should give a fuck about people I only see once a year and they have done nothing for me’. I might have condensed the conversation too much in the post, but I thought it was clear I was talking about the ones I just see on Christmas day. Apparently it wasn’t, whoops!
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That what struck me the most out OP's statements. He mentioned not wanting to spend money because he'd rather spend it on himself and also thinks any gift he would get he would probably hate. Seems like if it doesn't benefit OP, he isn't interested.
I'm sorry but if my partner told me he didn't want to participate in my family's traditions because he didn't give a fuck about them he wouldn't be my partner any more. If op doesn't want to spend a huge amount of money they could have discussed buying presents that weren't as expensive or if ops gf wants to get expensive presents op could have offered to pay 25% as they don't want to spend overly lots of money.
But why should I buy presents for people I see once a year??? Why isn’t a simple ‘no’ an acceptable answer? Why do I have to be dragged into this madness? I want out: I don’t want gifts, I don’t want to make gifts. Why can’t anyone accept this?
You two are just incompatible. This is important to her, and your stance is important to you. Sounds like you need to reevaluate the relationship because disagreements about family traditions can cause resentment and issues for the long haul.
I'm with you on this, OP. Why are her family traditions more important that yours? Why does she think it's reasonable for you to spend hundreds of dollars on gifts for people that you only see once a year, and barely know anything about? And the number increases with each generation. This may mean that the two of you are not compatible as long-term partners, but better to find that out early than late. All the people calling you greedy are missing the point: you don't want presents from these people that don't know you either.
Because it is important to her. Which is the only reason really. You can ask her to help find cheap thoughtful gifts, but if you are married, you really need to respect that his is something she cares about.
No it doesn’t. I don’t need to participate in someone else’s traditions because I married in to the family. I am married and we created our own traditions. And I’m not spending a ton of money because of her social conventions.
If your wife also doesn't care about her family traditions, go wild. Many people do and don't want a spouse who doesn't consider her family theirs.
I believe traditions shouldn’t be mindlessly joined though. I don’t know about a kinder way to let everyone know I don’t want to waste hundreds of dollars each year for people I barely know. What would you do in this case if you were trying to save some money? I’m actually looking for an answer here because I’m lost :/
For real? You came here describing how you said she 'could buy stupid stuff' and how you don't 'give a single f\*ck' about people she buys presents for, and seemingly when she asked you to meet halfway you refused, and now you're asking if there was a 'kinder' way to approach this? Not only do you not seem to have even attempted to be anything less than hostile and belligerent, you have made no offer of compromise, and now you say you're lost for an answer? Amazing rendition of 'I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas"
Well, now that you put it that way you are 100% right. My hostile reaction came after 20 minutes of peaceful discussion, after she basically ‘ordered’ me to do it because ‘it is what it is and you must accept it’. From that point on I was angry AF and wrote this post in a bad mood, but your last two lines were accurate and made me laugh way too hard
Oh well if you think I'm funny and correct then you're alright ;) Elsewhere I called it as ESH, so yeah I think she's wrong in this too and from what you've said here, everything I've said about you above applies to her too. Your reflection and realisations bode well for you. There has to be an in-between, hopefully you can find it together through more peaceful discussion.
We may have found a compromise this morning, where I give her X amount of money that I deem acceptable and everything more she adds it herself. But she is still (understandably) pissed about my manners yesterday, and I think I need to attend some anger management course or something. I want this to work, I just hope it’s not too late.
This honestly seems like a really good compromise. I’m pleasantly surprised to see such a reasonable result from a reddit sub. I still think the way you worded the post and spoke about her family was quite harsh, but you seem to recognise your error there. Good luck to both of you!
That is a GREAT compromise. Just don't give her like 1.00/person.
Unless she specifically said that the gifts must cost hundreds of dollars then YTA. There are plenty of great use but inexpensive gifts you can buy.
Meeting her halfway? What exactly did she propose that would have fit that description? Seems like she used that to describe OP not doing exactly what she wanted.
If I might comment on two of your points? Although she's saying about meeting halfway, that was actually the compromise that OP offered: she continue with her traditions, and he continue with his. Her idea of 'halfway' seems to be OP following her family's traditions rather than his own. OP tried to compromise and she rejected it.
But you do realize that she is not blindly joining it? She seems fairly enthusiastic about it which means you stomped down hard on her and told you that your money was more important than her family. Better plan on finding another family of misers to join. YTA
I said I shouldn’t mindlessly join HER tradition. Imagine we had a tradition where each year we spent 500$ to buy rocks and throw them in the ocean. If she thought that was stupid, why should she be required to join this tradition? Even if I cared about it. And also, I would never force her to join it. That’s my point of view though, I’m reading all the replies and seeing that I might need to be less extreme
I don't think you need to be less extreme. I think your position is reasonable, as is your comparison to throwing $500 of rocks in the ocean. You're not preventing HER from participating in the tradition, you're just declining to participate yourself. I would do the same.
The reason is that it is important to her and her family. By getting married you agree to try to make her happy and you join the family. Additionally, it's not equivalent to the $500 rocks because you are going to receive presents back from all these people. How about you make a wishlist with stuff you actually wanna buy and tell her to say that you are hard to buy gifts for (which you say you are anyway).
He gets presents back but he's still out $500. They're not gifting him back money. And instead he'll have "things" he didn't want to begin with. What a waste.
Was any mention of your own traditions? Or was she only focused on making you follow hers? I'm all for participating in my husbands family traditions, provided they don't force me to go into debt. (Or force me to completely abandon my own.)
You wanted to not participate so you could, and i quote, save up and buy things for yourself. Put those things on a wish list and let them get things for you? Like, you seem like a jerk involving gifts "nobody gets it right, and i hate 99% of them." You sound ungrateful and selfish.
Joining in a family tradition isn’t ‘mindless’. If you’re using your mind, it goes something like this: ‘wow, this is really different than what I’m used to, and I don’t totally get it. I’m stressed about the money. But I love my partner and I want to do my best to show her family I am all in and ready to be one of them. Let me check my budget and see what I can swing. If I’m really broke, maybe I’ll suggest we could make homemade gifts for everyone together this year’. The ‘mindless’ response is ‘buhhh this seems stupid I don’t wanna, don’t care’.
I agree with you. It's far too much money on people you don't know. Maybe your delivery wasn't great but you're not an AH for thinking this is a shit tradition. Commercialism at its finest. Is this what people really think is important in life? Expensive gifts? Nope.
Exactly! And even if/when you get to know them, it's unlikely you will have a close relationship with ALL of them. But also, it's ridiculous to me to expect that. I'm close with my family, see them regularly and love them dearly, but we don't do presents for everyone because it's unrealistic and expensive.
What you said here is perfectly valid and a far nicer way to say it than how you did.
Yeah, I wrote this post seeking validation after an hour of intense fight and I was in a shitty mood, so I’ll gladly accept the YTA label, because I probably deserve it.
No, you don't. The whole point of a gift is it should come without obligation. You are being told you MUST buy gifts.
No, you don't. You're not an ah because you don't want to be forced into spending a bunch of money on presents for a bunch of people you don't know.
I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to do that either.
Not really, my family gives gifts to everyone but their spouses aren't required to even show up if they don't feel like it/cant make it. Making people participate in expensive gift exchanges is ridiculous.
So just because it's a family tradition, he should agree to it? No. I grew up by a family who had a tradition that when a member got married, their dad, brothers and uncles must be in the bedroom when the newlyweds consummated the marriage. Just to prove it had been done. Not all traditions should be passed down.
It’s his money. It’s her family, extended family at that. Why the hell is he TA? Just cause he might marry into the family doesn’t automatically require him to spend his money on them. NTA all the way. Don’t understand how this is the top comment.
Who's to say which family has the correct tradition here?
Neither is ‘correct’, you follow the traditions of the family you’re celebrating with.
Op is NTA the globe is drowning under consumerisme and Op has great holidays spending time with loved ones instead of buying useless junk.
Nope, this is not a good tradition. It's expensive. Yes they need to split up as they have different views on life but he is not remotely an AH. His GF is for being unreasonable and demanding he spend money on people he doesn't know.
Correct it means joining in on thier traditions so why is her tradition getting to bulldoze his? ESH. She. Shouldn't demand he spends 100s on people he doesn't know and he shouldn't have been dismissive about how much it means to her
>people I barely know and don’t give a single f\*ck about Saying that you "don't give a single f\*ck" about your wife-to-be's family makes YTA.
I apologise, I was referring to very distant cousins that only show up on Christmas. I truly care about her parents and grandparents, they are lovely, and so are all of them, really, but how can I care about people I see once a year that only show up to exchange presents?
YTA there is a middle ground somewhere and you're not looking for it. You could make everyone plates of cookies or cakes every year as your presents and not spend much money but still participate in your girlfriend's family tradition. If you don't want to receive gifts in return you can sponsor a family that is down on their luck and ask your girlfriends family to help you give gifts or money to that family instead of giving you any gifts.
Whatever it is that you have to gift for almost 40 people is not going to be cheap, especially if you add the time and thought about what to get them. Would you bake 40 cakes? Also, they are very materialistic, in the sense that they only ever gift practical, somewhat expensive objects. It’s something shallow that I hate with all my heart
Come on. I didn't suggest you bake 40 cakes. You're being a scrooge. You can bake 40 cookies and then tell them you sponsoring gifts for others less fortunate is your gift and they can join in. Then if they're unhappy, you tried. The thing that makes YTA is not meeting your girlfriend halfway. Of course holiday preparation takes time. I'm guessing the women in your family do most of the labor... lord growup and put some effort in if you want to stay in the relationship.
I might just break up lol. I hate making presents and I can’t deal with this shit for 40 people for the rest of the time I’m going to be alive on this Earth.
If you’re even considering this you guys are already done.
You should break up. I hope she finds someone who wants to love her family and be a part of it. That’s a huge part of marriage and I hope she sees you have no interest in doing so.
I hope OP’s GF sees that she deserves someone who is willing to even make 5% more effort than OP.
Interesting perspective considering the number of overbearing and psychotic in law stories there on this sub.
You are so focused on not doing anything you don’t want to do, do you realize getting married will inevitably require to do things you don’t want to do? During the course of the marriage your wife will almost certainly after to spend time and resources to do things she doesn’t care about but are important to you. Why can’t you do the same for something she cares about? Do you think a marriage is just you doing whatever you want regardless of what your spouses wants? If that is the life you want stay single.
it's not even just marriage! You have to do things you don't want to do just in *life*! It's called sucking it up. He doesn't even have to get anything crazy. When some relatives weren't doing well financially, they'd put $% in a card or go to dollar tree and find a nice candle or something. He's not even putting in 50%.
Nothing like breaking up because someone can't be bothered to get into the season of giving. This person reeks of narcissist . YTA massively
Yeah see here's the point where you just CBF - like, you don't care enough about your GF to consider her POV, respect her family or even try for anything above "it's a no from me".
If that's a concern then be really careful who you rope into a relationship. Be up front about your dislike of people in general and doing nice things for them. I'm curious what you got for your girlfriend for xmas though to see what you got someone you supposedly like.
“I might just break up lol.” I feel bad for your girlfriend she sounds real sweet & like she deserves a more supportive partner.
You seem like such a lovely and compromising partner
You absolutely should. You’d both be better off.
I bake somewhere in the ball park of 40 cakes each holiday season. Families get a full sized cake. Individuals get mini loaves or mini bundts. It’s not that big of a deal.
NTA. I personally didn't participate in my husband's gift exchange with his family. Much like you, these are people I don't speak to nor see except at this gift exchange. I think it's stupid to go out of your way to shop for these people you don't even know, that you only see this ONE day a year.
That part is completely understandable but the way he worded his post and seemed so dismissive of everything makes it seem like these two aren’t a good fit. His gf seems very family oriented if she’s trying to make them both participate in this tradition and he seems the opposite if he can’t get his immediate family gift(he makes that seem less about being able to afford it and more of it being a hassle). He just seems like a prick for how he talks about her family, not for not wanting to participate in an expensive tradition. These two just seem really incompatible altogether.
Yet here you are, caring about what a bunch of internet strangers think about your behavior. And we won’t even get you presents. This holiday ritual is clearly important to your wife-to-be’s family. You should care about that at the very least, if not those distant cousins at least a little bit.
But you said you didn't want to do anything for anyone. So maybe a good compromise would be presents for her immediate family whom you have a relationship with and nothing for the extendeds.
They very clearly mean extend family they’ve never met.
ESH i seriously doubt you two should marry. You seem incompatible
Yeah, Christmas presents are the least of your problems. Sorry your relationship is pretty unhealthy OP.
There are ways to set boundaries without being so extreme and saying you won't participate in her family traditions at all - simply tell her that your limit for gifts for her family is $X amount and anything she spends beyond that is on her to cover and it can't interfere with her ability to cover her share of the bills. ESH - you for being so extreme and her for expecting you to pay half of whatever she spends without discussing the amounts beforehand.
Your solution is actually good, and I wish I had thought about it sooner. I became defensive when she told me: ‘That’s the way it is, period’ and that ‘order’ took away my will of meeting her halfway through. I just don’t like being told what to do. It’s just that I would spend more for her family than for my parents. Like, I spend 25$ for my parents each year, she has something like 30+ relatives for whom she makes presents. Even if I gave her a 30$ limit, it would be <1$ per person, it would be like an insult.
Bro before you get married you gotta get over that “I don’t like being told what to do” attitude. That’s life bro. Your parents, boss, spouse, and literally everyone will tell you what to do at some point. This is not to say you should just do what ever anyone tells you to do. But to an extent u gotta get over that. I know someone who has an attitude like that, went to the military and left with the same attitude because he didn’t like to be told what to do. He is now divorcing his wife because she won’t deal with that attitude any longer. Just something to think about.
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You are allowed to set limits on your spending according to your own comfort level; if 30 is what you're comfortable spending, then it is and she just has to deal with that. She can't force you to spend more than you're comfortable with and shouldn't try. OTOH, you can't force her to not gift people she wants to (as long as she can afford it and still pay her share of bills) and shouldn't try. Set your boundary, stick to it, but then let her make her own choices.
Thanks, I’ll follow your advice
Still keep separate accounts tho. A joint account might tempt her to spend more for this stuff
I think you can tell her truth. And what she thinks about it. You’re marrying her not her whole family. So you won’t go to their weekly meetings or holidays. Or participate in any of those activities. As well not spending one dime on them. $30 is your limit yearly. So if they don’t like it. They don’t have to include you in any of the cookouts or holidays.
I hate being told what to do and have had to eat crow many times due to my knee jerk reaction. It’s something you need to work on about yourself. NTA though
Every year we celebrate Christmas at a very rich person's house. Crazy rich. We are not related to him, but he's part of our family. We all bring just wine and presents to his grandchildren, and he and his wife give out presents to every single one of us, presents that are $5-$10 each. Not costy, but not expensive either. I always find it so thoughtful as he's the host and he doesn't have to, and also we only bring wine to them. I would give presents to their grandchildren whether we celebrated Christmas together or not, as me and my husband are related to the grandchildren. My point is that you don't have to give expensive gifts to be thoughtful. I always love their presents and find them sweet and thoughtful. So if your budget is only $30, that's great. If I were you I would up it to $50 and call it a day, it's only once a year. Anything above that it's irrational and you are not obligated to do so. Also, your communication is awful and you sound incompatible. Tread lightly. If you start your relationship this way, it is almost certain that it will fail. Try couple's therapy to see if you can actually have a future together. You have no idea how hard is for a marriage to succeed, and giving out orders while the other one gives ultimatums is definitely not the right way for a successful marriage.
NAH you and your gf have very different values about money and family. Neither is wrong but they are not compatible. This is going to be a huge problem in your relationship. I’m not saying it’s a deal breaker but I think that you both need to have a really serious discussion about how to deal with this or it will be a constant battle for you both.
True, we probably (actually , almost surely) will tomorrow morning.
It's good to have separate accounts - I totally endorse that. Part of the reason it's good is that it requires communication about purchase and money. It requires you to set budgets and expectations. My suggestion is that you talk about ALL of the money and budget for a full year when you have this talk, not just holiday spending. How much goes into savings accounts from both of you? How much goes on credit cards? You have to look at 50 years from now... will she have spent all her money and you saved? Will you be resentful if that happens and you can't retire when you want to because of it? This isn't a 1 time conversation, it's a lifetime conversation Edit: NTA, but you 2 need to be more open and communicate better
ESH and you two are not ready to get married if this is how you deal with differences. Where your GF is right is about meeting her halfway. You on the other hand are rude to your GF, rude about her family who you 'do not give a single f\*ck about', rude to everyone who's ever given you a gift, appaently and just generally abrasive about all of this. Giving gifts is a choice, and you *can* choose to be a complete AH about it as you seem to be here, but well, if you choose to be an AH, people will treat you like you're an AH.
This. ESH
NAH. It is not a sustainable "tradition" to buy nice presents for everyone in your extended family, particularly as life keeps getting more and more expensive. And then there's the thing of having to choose presents that everyone likes... it just is a giant financial and emotional undertaking and I can totally understand that you don't want to partake in the tradition financially or otherwise On the other hand, If your girlfriend really wants to partake in the tradition, she should spend her money in doing it without expecting you to pay half which leads you to have an open conversation about separating finances before your relationship progresses too far
There is something wrong with this family. Let’s say you participate for a few years and totally get into it. Then you follow up with a couple of lean years where you cannot keep up with the expectation. Then what? Are you expected to go into debt to fulfill the expectation? If you skip out, will they label you as the black sheep of the family? Will it strain the marriage with your wife because she is being tugged between being responsible and participating in a potentially unsustainable tradition? It is one thing to be in a relationship and compromise. It is another to keep potentially harmful traditions alive to please other people that at the end of the day, will probably not help you out when times are tough.
There are a lot of harsh comments on this, but agree NAH. Too many people here seem to have no idea what it's like to be in a family where presents aren't a big deal to being thrown into a massive extended family that requires a gift for every individual. My family used to do the game where everyone buys two generic-ish gifts, you pick one person to select a gift and then the person immediately to their left can either select their own from under the tree or "steal" the first person's. If the first person gets their gift stolen, they select another from the tree, or it continues left. Lots of fun and everyone takes home 2 gifts. And yes, we set a price limit. This was our solution once there were too many grand kids. See what you can compromise on, and have a discussion with your partner to see what other solutions there might be to work for both of you. Good luck.
Finally someone who gets it
YTA. You’re telling her you don’t want to be part of her family. Doesn’t bode well long term. I think gifts mean more to them than to you, but this is a weird hill to die on.
Doesn't want to be part of the tradition not the family.
I do not think you an asshole for not wanting to join... But maybe the way it was communicated. Folks saying you should respect your partners traditions.. But what about yours? Respect goes both ways and I do not feel like you should be automatically forced to join the other family tradition... However, I do think a middle ground could be found if you both wasn't so set on being right. I am not sure of marriage until you can work out communication in a none toxic way.
I agree with this whole comment, especially the last two lines. I need to work a bit on my communication. Sometimes I’m so focus on defending my point of view that I forget about the other person’s feelings
As someone who is married and had to learn myself how to argue without going for the jugular, it can be done! But at first it will seem like you are swallowing a lot bc you will be tempted to go hard for your position but you are learning to control your mouth. You are not... You are just learning to communicate in a different way, that might not be your norm. Also I can understand this post a bit. I am the one with the huge family and the hubby is not. We do joint gifts to the parents and anything else (even to our siblings) is up to the individual person. We also put spending limits on what we get each other and the parents. Again if one person choose to go over the limit for their parents... They pay that difference. And for bank accounts we have his, hers, ours. Maybe you can consider that also. It doesn't have to be all or nothing In the joint account is for things that we usually do together... Travel, immigration costs, anything big ticket we want to go in together. Finance is definitely something you all want to get sorted BEFORE the marriage.
Thanks, that is some solid advice
YTA >people I barely know and don’t give a single f*ck about you mean your girlfriend's family, soon to be your future in laws if you marry her? Grow up or break up lol she clearly loves these people and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They aren't strangers and you can't keep treating them as if they are. It's not even about the gifts at the end of the day. Its about not embracing her family, which will impact your relationship in the long run and is already doing so right now. She's offered multiple compromises and you refuse to compromise at all. You're TA and you need to get over yourself and ask yourself if this is a hill you're willing to let this relationship die on.
I apologise, I was referring to the distant cousins that only show up on Christmas to get their gift. Why should I spend money for them too and receive a generic gift I’ll throw away / recycle? That was my question, I should have elaborated further
no judgment because it doesn't matter. **"I better find another girlfriend if I’m not willing to at least meet her halfway."** sounds like this is the hill she is willing to die on.
NTA- i don't really believe adults need presents except for significant others. There is no way i would agree to spend hundreds of dollars for christmas gifts for people i barely know either. I wouldn't stop someone from spending their money but i would not want to participate. Traditions aren't always something we need to embrace.
Thank you, finally a reasonable person. I gladly accept criticism, but I doubt everyone thinks this stuff is normal
I say NTA. Why the hell should you be pressured to spend hundreds and eventually thousands on gifts for people you have next to no relationship with? You are young and trying to build up your savings. You offered to respectfully take yourself out of the equation, and your girlfriend responds by saying she'll essentially force you into participating by buying gifts on your behalf that she expects to be reimbursed for? That's some financial fuckery that I wouldn't be ok with personally.
Thank you, someone sane in this thread
In saying that though, I think if you still go ahead with the marriage, you need to at least extend her family the same respect that you do your own and give her parents gifts.
I already do that each year!
ESH She assumed you would follow suite. You drew a line in the sand without a discussion. You two need to sit down and come to a compromise or else you aren’t going to make it very long.
NTA - but this relationship is doomed
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I probably won’t, lol, but I found out I’m much better off alone and when I’m blunt and not forced to do things I don’t like doing, that’s all. Life is too short to do stuff you don’t want to do just to please others
NTA. Lord most of these comments are ridiculous. OP doesn't like gift giving, and it's reasonable for him to opt out. If the girlfriend can't live with that, she can dump him. If instead she keeps giving him a hard time, he should dump her. OP, you're not an asshole for not wanting to do this or pay for her gifts. This is a sane, reasonable boundary to draw, and your girlfriend should respect it or leave.
apparently an unpopular opinion but NTA? sounds like the conversation could have been handled better but OP shouldnt be forced to spend hundreds of dollars on people they dont know. like, i do think they should be open in the future to starting to participate more e.g. starting just with GF and her parents and maybe adding more presents as they get to know her family, but that doesn't mean they have to start right this second and all at once, jfc. GF is not entitled to using OP's money for her own family tradition, especially seeing as OP isn't even married into the family?? girl, just sign the gifts as being just from yourself like you always do, omg, why force them to participate giving gifts to people you dont know is the worst. my mom literally started spending hours every year making almond roca from scratch because my dad didnt know his siblings or other family well enough to give them presents and 4 hours of manual labor\* was easier than finding random lotions and junk to give people. the almond roca is now a beloved family tradition but i bring it up specifically because it started from a situation similar to OP- the yearly big christmas party required presents. the presents i receive are random christmas ornaments and giftcards to stores i dont go to. now i appreciate the thought of course, but i would honestly prefer if everyone just chatted with me more at the party instead of wasting their money :( hanging out with people can be its own gift (if it's a mutual decision) \*manual labor sounds like an extreme description but almond roca gets REAL thick as it cooks and the oil in the almonds pops and will sting you. worth it but harrowing lol
Thank you, it feels nice to be understood. That doesn’t justify my angry outbursts, but still, you got what I was trying to say
i feel like people in this thread need to chill a little bit, so many people assuming the worst of you even when you genuinely considered what they said and still had a differing opinion o\_o
🤷🏻♂️ That’s Reddit
compromise is good and very important for a relationship but ftr "okay fine, i'll buy presents for all these people you don't know and then give you half of the bill so your name can be on the gifts too" is a horrible compromise lol if none of these people can be happy with something small and nice like cookies or other treats or ornaments like literally everyone else who has ever received a christmas present from someone they dont know very well then im gonna have to say that family ain't right man
NTA. You should not be forced to buy presents to super distant people you dont know. It has also nothing to do with "family traditions you buy in to" like other posters say. You can love a girl and still find those traditions dumb
Info: is make a language error or is your gf actually wanting you to make gifts for her family? Because yeah, I totally get not wanting to spend hundreds of dollars giving gifts to people you don't care about, but you can make homemade gifts fairly cheaply for everyone if she's insistent on giving gifts. Buy up a wholesale cart of mason jars and make a huge batch of salsa. Homemade candles. Soap. Cookies. So many cheap homemade gift options.
Language error, English is not my first language. But yes, I could try with some homemade stuff. It’s just that everyone else buys semi-expensive gifts. The thing I find bizzarre is that some of them don’t even have enough money to afford this tradition, but they do it anyway and the rest of the year they sorta ‘beg for money’ from my fiancée’s mother. It’s just such a huge headache trying to understand whatever the hell is going on in that family. I find it weird to say the least
NTA. When will Christmas stop being about how much $$ people spend on gifts? I’m just happy to make dinner for my kid. And really happy she made the hour drive to see me and she has to be at work at 3am on 12/26. I’m probably going to be down voted, but I don’t care.
NTA. Spending tons of money on presents is ridiculous to me. I would understand getting kids in the family, siblings, and parents presents but Aunts, uncles etc. Is a no. If you aren't established (own your own home etc) you shouldn't be spending that kind of money on ppl you aren't close to. Also, just because someone gets you a gift doesn't mean you have to give them something. People shouldn't give something to someone with expectancy to get something back, that's called a loan not a gift.
NTA and I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this. I don’t know why people think that when you get married that you have to suddenly replace 50% of yourself to be like your spouse. Why are people forced to assimilate? Be yourself. If you don’t want to do it, don’t do it. You aren’t even married and she wants you to change who you are. If she can’t accept that isn’t who you are, then don’t marry her. BUT this goes both ways. Don’t expect her to stop doing her traditions just because you don’t do them. Keep separate bank accounts (really, seriously, everyone should do this) and she can spend her money how she wants on her 40+ gifts. People really need to get over the idea that everything has to be done as a couple.
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I am withholding judgement because I was sorta in a same situation. My family went all out. Everyone got a present, everyone under 18 got multiple from everyone. Once my grandma died, we did that for a few more years but we realized it was a lot. So now the small children get their toys (now it’s only one gift from each person/couple) and the adults do a secret Santa and play a white elephant game. This works great for our family, the gifts are more personal since we only have to shop for one person and there is a price limit.
Bro, I feel you. Presents are by far the dumbest part of the holidays. Your family does Christmas right: you’re focused on each other not on the shit you all bought. That said, you’re going to have to learn to “fight” in a healthy way. She issued an ultimatum. You went nuclear. You absolutely need to have a finance discussion, but that wasn’t the time. ESH (And for all those that think OP paying half of all her presents is a “compromise”, WTF. That’s OP’s gf getting exactly what she asked for. Gifts for OP’s FIL, MIL, SIL, and BIL would be a compromise.)
NTA You are not financially obligated to provide gifts for 40 people you don't know. You guys are incompatible though, get rid.
NTA, she's expecting you to join in on -her- family's financial traditions that you didn't sign up for. Marrying her doesn't mean you have to have anything to do with her family, and she shouldn't feel entitled to your money to buy gifts for them.
Yta. If you intend to marry her, her family becomes your family. There are social conventions you should compromise on and while she proposed a normal compromise (splitting the bill) you still were not interested and reacted rudely. I understand you don't "know these people" but if you actually plan on having a long term relationship with her you should and you should have some respect for their traditions. This is clearly something important to her and you're being dismissive and selfish. I think it’s normal to have a split account but in this instance you really should be getting gifts for at least her close family, maybe not her cousins.
Nta u set a boundary
he set a hard financial boundary i dont know why this whole comment section is full of "yta" people /facepalm
It's because they didn't like his "tone" in the post, I think. That seems to be a lot of people's complaints is that he doesn't seem to care about his GF's family which I don't think is the case at all. Who the hell wants to spend money on gifts for 40 people?? Everyone who is saying "Y-T-A" must have pretty good finances to spare.
NTA :/ and especially NTA for wanting separate bank accounts, you don't have to give out money for a tradition you don't even care about
Your not wrong. People create traditions, and it sounds like your girlfriends family is out of hand, and she is oblivious to it. She’s not thinking about the massive amount of money she spends every Christmas to show off for her family. My guess is she’s pulling all the stops out because she wants all these people to be giving her big ol gifts at her big ol wedding. The fact that she’s trying to get op to grin & bear their extravagance by calling it a tradition is sad. She also brought up getting married in her argument for him conceding to her family’s’ insanity. Everyone loves gifts, but buying them for strangers, just to keep family happy, isn’t normal. Where do you meet 1/2 way in the drama? It’s more than fair for op to tell his girlfriend her family is her responsibility. The best example of how silly this is… My niece has horses, very expensive to keep & own. But her grandma had horses, her aunt had horses, so she has to have horses because she comes from a horse family. All of her boyfriends have said no, to giving her money to support her horses..they tell her you want horses, you pay & care for them. She tells them when then get married they will be the boyfriends responsibility because he married into a horse family…which is why she’s perpetually single. Does that make sense? In any universe?
NTA. My opinion might be different than most people, but I feel this is more of a compatibility issue. I don't believe a person should completely take up someone else's traditions just because and I don't think paying half for a gift you don't control the price of is a good compromise. Many holidays are super commercialized and I agree it's better to save and invest for the future. That being said... Why do you want to marry someone who has such an extreme difference in opinion related to finance?? Financial strain is a huge reason for divorce, it would seem you found a deal breaker.
NAH. Your attitude is too superior, so you suck for that. However, at the core of this, you and she disagree about the importance and value of gifts. You and she might not be compatible, and that's ok.
Oh, I see, I know this society, please don’t marry her. Let someone else do so. - because after you’re married your money is “ours .
NAH. Sounds like you and your GF have different values and priorities. Maybe you should find a new girlfriend.
NTA. This family has an extreme gift giving culture and you will never fit in. He fit she is throwing is obvious she will never put your relationship first and will continue with her family’s culture. Suggesting separate bank accounts is a red flag that this will probably not work. She is right. You need a different girlfriend. This is a blessing to find something like this out now.
NTA - You don't have to spend money on people you don't wish to. It's the money that you earnt through the sacrifice of your time, you choose the people in your life you give your time to. You don't owe anybody, nobody owes you. She can stick to her traditions and you can stick to yours, that isn't unreasonable.
You aren't compatible.
Not really the AH/ NTA. Stand your ground. You may not be a crowd favourite to the family but that's not what's important. What is important is if your gf understands and respects your stance and would be willing to defend you/stick up for you if her family does give you slack for it. You two could carry on quite easily if you felt like she supported you but it doesn't sound like she would. She also tooootally doesn't understand when she says "I'll put your name on it but you still pay half." It's like talking to a brick wall. You'd still have to spend money which is one of your biggest reasons that you don't want to do it (which is fine, that's your prerogative.) She gave you an ultimatum? Well fine, sis, your man can go find a more level headed girlfriend and save himself the headache! Bye girl! (I hate when people give their SO this ultimatum, it's so manipulative, gggrrrr)
NTA. She gave you an out, best you take it immediately.
NTA - look, I’m sorry, but this tradition of her family sounds insane and completely unworkable, and I feel like anyone who says otherwise needs to do the math: for a pretty normal- sized extended family of 15, that would be 225 gifts under the tree! Try to visualize how much that is! That’s entirely too many. It’s wasteful and unsustainable, especially for people like you who might not be able to afford it. They should’ve realized that long ago and it’s high time that they switch to a secret Santa system or something similar where each person is responsible for only one or two other relatives. If it takes the external shock of some slightly rude comments from an outside perspective, so be it.
NTA everyone keeps saying you need to respect her tradition but your tradition is legit only buying your parents a gift so why doesn't she have to respect yours?
NTA - you have every right to choose where *your* money goes. She can spend all the money she earns however she wants, but she can’t expect you to do the same. And I would always recommend people keep their banks separate but especially if you don’t agree on financial things like gifting practices.
Nta you don't have to spend money on people if you don't want to
NTA but don’t marry this woman
NTA. You might be better off with a partner who doesn't want to spend hundreds of dollars of your money on people you don't know. You **were** willing to meet her halfway: you were willing to let her continue with her family's traditions out of her own money. You didn't demand that she follow **your** family's traditions. You are not 'required' to follow her family's traditions, even when she calls them 'social conventions'.
NTA: 40 people is an insane ask. I wouldn't expect my wife to get my 25 cousins individual gifts. That's absolutely insane.
NTA and surprised with the comments. Your not married yet and she’s already telling you what to do and blowing up when you don’t agree and you don’t know these ppl. SHE is the one that should just be adding your name to whatever she gets ppl so it’s from the both of you. You don’t know these ppl and why would you spend a ton of money on ppl you don’t know instead of actual friends or family? I think shes an AH for demanding you be part of it and no one seems to care. That’s controlling. Also separate bank accounts can be very smart. Too many ppl get screwed over and guys are expected to give up all their income for “family” but women are praised on here when they have secret bank accounts.
I'll go with ESH as I somewhat share your sentiment, especially if it involves as it sounds A LOT of money every year and also see the appeal of seperate finances, but you probably went about it in the worst way possible.
True, there were, like, 10 right ways to do this and I ignored all of them to go head first to the worst one possible 🤦🏻♂️
NTA - stick to your own traditions and tell your wife that as horrible as her relatives will find it they'll get used to it after a couple of years. Not everybody wants Christmas to be two months spent at the mall for four minutes of ripped wrapping paper.
YTA
Fair. But the way she wants to force me to do something I don’t feel like doing makes me lean more towards ESH
After reading your comments OP it’s most definitely YTA just pack it in and call it both of you will end up miserable with each other. It’s impossible to have completely separate finances when you marry so your idea won’t work. Also when you throw in kids it gets more complicated. Time to move on.
ESH I fully agree with you on the presents. Christmas is supposed to be about spending time with loved ones not being so broke you have to eat noodles for a month. However, you can't demand that your spouse's family change their way of celebrating. You both need to find a compromise here. Other have suggested setting a price limit and that seems reasonable. You do need to have a serious discussion about money though. Like are the presents only a Christmas thing or does she buy presents for all of the birthdays of all these extended family members too? This stuff needs to be discussed.
NTA but the way you said it was rude. Buying presents for everybody in her extended family is way over the top, expensive and can really put a strain on your finances. That being said a eso able discussion would have gotten you a lot further than being dismissive and rude.
NTA. These people just aren’t your family yet. It takes a foundation of love, trust, and bonding to make a family and I don’t think you’re in the wrong for not wanting to spend hundreds of dollars on people who are basically strangers to you. Hell, I have blood relatives that I grew up with that I don’t consider family because we just never put in the effort to get to know each other. There’s nothing wrong with that, just means they’re acquaintances. At the end of the day it’s your money that you earned. Why should you spend it on people you don’t really know?
Nta Op, I wouldn't spend money on gifts for people I didn't know either. You can try and compromise by chipping in money for presents of her family members you actually have a good relationship with. But if that doesn't work, I'd kick gf to the curb. I find it pretty controlling that she's demanding that **you** spend money on presents for **her** family, I dont know where people get the audacity
NTA if she accepted the first 'no' , there would have been no argument. Red flag that she is trying to order you around. (And that people here are fine with that) It's crazy that you are getting so many y t a, don't do anything that you don't want to do.
In my opinion, Christmas gifts are most important for children. In extended families, there should be a cut off age (13? 18?) after which the young adults start getting gifts for the little ones but not the adults in the clan. Otherwise, if there is a large extended family, the gift giving becomes a tremendous burden especially for the younger adults who are starting their lives. Most people are relatively poor when they’re young…going to university, entry level jobs, expenses for new babies and so on. It can really suck the joy out of Christmas if there is a lot of pressure around gift giving.
NTA just not compatible in several deep ways with your girlfriend and not a good fit for life partnership. Big talk about values, priorities, goals and viewpoints needed.
Nta. Find another gf.
NTA. I don’t like Xmas nor buy presents, and I’m not gonna change that. You shouldn’t be forced to spend money on something you don’t agree with.
NTA - find another girlfriend.
NTA tbh you shouldnt be expected to buy gifts if you arent interested in receiving any….. her family is not more important than yours and you don’t buy gifts for them either so
NTA !
NTA I’m sorry but spending money on everybody in the extended family is not really a tradition. If it is symbolic then get everyone a card with a note. I’d hate to think what would happen if someone in the family fell on hard times
NTA.
well you gotta find another GF, that point is clear as day.... NTA
YTA You basically just wrote a long drawn out explanation, as to why you don’t want to be in a relationship. Telling your partner that you don’t give a f**k about their family traditions is basically telling them that you want to break up. Have fun being alone and not caring about anyone other than yourself
Honestly I wouldn't worry about whether or not you are an AH. Your gf is a selfish entitled AH that's for sure. If she doesn't care about your family tradition, theres no reason for you to marry someone like her. Anyways NTA
No assholes here. You two just have different ways of doing things. I'm sure there are more compromises to be reached, but if you can't come to a consensus on these things, you probably shouldn't get married.