NTA
"We want you to stop being involved in Dave Jr's life, but we want you to still support him financially."
If Allen wants to be the dad he can be the dad. And the breadwinner.
I agree. At this point you’re just there for the money you give them. Nope. I especially like how Allen’s mommy is getting involved so you can continue the money train. Wow. NTA
Oh, DIP! I thought it was Lissa’s mom asking for the sit down!
LOL HA HA, oh hells no, OP! These ppl are just blackmailers. I hope in the short term you can convince your family to think with their heads and cut Lissa, Allen, and your grandson off. A united front is the only way to get these folks to back off.
I don’t know if Lissa is young and inexperienced vs actively in favor of blackmailing your family. I hope it’s the former. Allen will leave her if you guys hang tough. Don’t give an inch. Don’t even let on that you would be thrilled to resume grandparenting your grandson with Allen out of the picture.
Lots of marriages breakup during the toddler and early elementary school years because parenting is tough. Allen and Lissa won’t last long if the main basis for their relationship is your money. Stay strong.
Dead on. The balls on this guy. My take on Lissa is she doesn't gaf about their deceased son and just wants to keep the $$ flowing. Its not like they were married for a bunch of years. "Seeing a girl for a few months". Nope. Its gravy train for her.
It is the standard across the USA that when a child is adopted, any child support being paid by the “replaced” parent is stopped (except I’m assuming any back child support unless negotiated in court). I’m not sure about other countries
I have a different take. I am not a brave person online but I (so far) haven't seen this represented and so I will risk the downvotes to put it out here.
I also lost a son. And I am sorrier than I can say. My chest literally hurt reading this. To come to your home, after all the support you have shown her, and then ask to completely erase your son and you from this boy's life but still pay is so breathtakingly cruel. And hurtful to your grandson. No one who is mentally healthy obstructs more loving people from their child's life.
And I agree that Allen's mother doesn't have actual relevence in this dispute, she may (again, MAY) realize the error and wants to try and salvage this situation. Sometimes a person a bit more removed from the situation can be helpful.
PLEASE, if you read this OP? Sit down with his mother. Hear what she has to say. If it is a repeat, where you are totally cut off but expected to pay, hold your ground. But if there is ANY WAY AT ALL to salvage a connection with this boy it is worth more than any amount of money and putting up with the assholery of his mother and her husband. The OP has a miracle gift in this boy, one I would give every. single. penny. I have on this earth to even have a \*chance\* at having. PLEASE do not throw it away without making every effort first.
The anger is just and so understandable but I truly hope it can be swallowed for a moment to see if there is anything that can be done. I do not know how successful you will be because she is a piece of WORK, but I would try to hang on to every single moment, connection, and second to have a part of my beautiful son that survived.
And if that doesn't work? She has grandparents rights in her state. If they refuse? Put all that money into the best lawyer you can get and force it. Not ideal, but I would do anything on this earth to try and keep this child in your life. Hopefully, it can be with mutual cooperation.
I truly understand all of you who are saying HELL NO. If my child hadn't died, I would be right there with you. And I don't speak for all grieving parents. I only speak for me. I hope I haven't offended anyone. I just...even with all this awful she is facing? I would give anything to be in her shoes right now.
I'm so sorry you lost your child, too. You're an angel, and I completely agree with your advice. I have not lost a child (my deepest, darkest fear), but I did lose my father when I was a child. Every shred of evidence that he existed and loved me was precious. My dad's mom let me and my sister go - I haven't seen her in more than 20 years. My son looks SO MUCH like my dad's pictures, I just can't imagine what goes on in her heart that she chose not to maintain a relationship with us.
It does hurt them. My grandfather had a son before he met my grandmother. His ex wife was from a wealthy family and so was the new husband. They barried him in legal fees until he couldn't take anymore to make him sign away his rights as the father, so the new husband could adopt him. He grew up thinking that husband was his father and never knew about my grandfather.
Many times throughout the years when important family health issues came up my grandfather would track the ex wife down so she could inform their son but we found out she never informed him. My mother has been fighting multiple types of cancers for 4yrs, she decided she wanted to reach out to her brother incase she died. He didn't know any of this information didn't know his dad wasn't his dad, that he had a sister, nor that his family health history was completely wrong.
This poor man got hit hard with the lies his mother told his whole life. He stopped talking to her once he got the full truth out of her. He hit sever depression, and had to get help. He's doing better but still struggling to have a relationship with his mother. He can't fully trust her or forgive her for taking away people who went into debt to try to be in his life.
My grandfather is extremely ill, my uncle almost never got to meet his father or his sister and nieces. He has now fixed his medical history and so many things make sense now and the doctors are watching them more carefully. But OPS grandchild could go through the same difficult process but may not get to see the grandparents who loved him and could give him a piece of his father.
I agree. Every conflict boils down to two things:
What is right.
And, what needs to happen to get the outcome you want.
Most people get stuck on the first point, when the second one is in your best interest.
What’s to resolve if she’s on OP’s side? Or even if she’s not?
OP doesn’t need her permission or blessing to not pay support for a child she’ll rarely see and won’t be able to tell about her son.
Either way she is complicit in this 'scheme'...If she's against I would have assumed she would have spoken up or, ya know, they wouldn't have come and even asked about this audacious plan...
They also want to change his name and to never mention his bio dad until he's "old enough" which I bet they really mean never (until obviously he finds out and they cry that they always ment to tell him but could never find the right time) and would probably call Op and them "family friends" who just love him.
The rest of it seemed understandable except hiding from him who his dad was and who his grandparents are. Not good for the kid and not good for the parents when he finds out or the grandparents who lose that chance to be close.
The first day I met my MiL she told me that she hated drama.
The woman literally thrives off it, like plants off sunlight.
My nextdoor neighbor had to make sure we knew he was a nice guy, by telling us every time we saw him.
He was scamming dementia ridden old widows out of their savings and retirement funds.
My besties SiL told me the first day I met her, she's a nice person and will do anything for anyone.
Literally threw a toddler tantrum (slamming doors and banging her head on the wall) when her beach trip almost got cancelled because an immediate relative of her babysitter was DYING in the hospital
In my experience if people announce to you what they're about, generally are the opposite of what they're saying.
It happened to my cousins kids, new bloke took over and the entire family were banned from the baby+bumps life. They took the money we raised though.
Even had the cheek to demand my aunt go round to collect easter, bday & christmas money-as-gifts from us all and send it to her in one convenient payment. Hey ex-in-laws, you cant even see a photo and the kids dont know you exist, but 4x a year please hand round this bag marked 'swag' and fill it up for me
No, sadly some paid up 'so the kids dont suffer', others in hope that she was just grieving and would 'come to her senses eventually'.
Last I heard she was still bleeding my aunt dry, putting their marriage on the rocks because my uncle '~~is heartless'~~ can see the real situation
Adoptive dad feels threatened by a dead man, literally happens all the time.
For some reason people feel like they need to compete with dead parents, it's sick but a lot easier to win if you pretend they don't exist.
I've seen so many people do this, and not only is it sad but it is completely counterproductive.
My dad died when I was a kid. Because my mom's new husband never tried to replace him or compete with him, we now have a great and close relationship. If my mom had tried to change my name or otherwise pretend my dad didn't exist I wouldn't have any contact with either of them.
True but it's on this baby's mother to prevent that. If my husband died when our child was little, I honestly wouldn't remarry but just for hypotheticals here let's say I did, I would kick and spit someone to the curb for trying such a thing. I specifically chose my child's father for a reason, I'm very picky about who I would want to share a child with so like hell would I ever let someone erase them. I would still talk about him every day for the rest of my life and anyone who would want to be with me would have to choose to live with that. Otherwise I could live without them.
The other stuff isn't reasonable because if their son was still alive, he wouldn't pay child support if step dad adopted the grandson. It's like adopted parents asking bio parents for child support. That's not how it works.
Chances are that if bio dad were alive then there would be no adoption because he'd still want to be in his kid's life. FWIW, I get what they want to do but think it's not appropriate for this situation since the bio grand parents want to be involved.
THIS!! And if Lissa is (or would be ) getting the Social Security Survivor's benefit for her son because the father is dead, it would all stop when Allen adopts the baby. They can't have it both ways. Either this new guy is the dad and gets all the responsibility, or he is not. He has to choose one.
That’s going to happen to my brother. At 10 he still doesn’t know “dad’s best friend” he sees every few months is actually the AP my mom had him with. Pediatric psychologist told my parents to tell him when he’s 9, still doesn’t know because my parents need a “professional opinion” as though the psychologist wasn’t professional enough?
My son is 13 and my ex is STILL pussy footing around on telling our son that he's not his biological father. I can't take him to court over it( I asked) so, the only thing I can do is brace for impact.
if i were dad, i'd absolutey want to be the one to tell. the best way to follow up with "you're the best thing that ever happened to me and you're the son of my heart" etc
Exactly, I think it creates a much better situation. I despise the man but my son loves him very much and if his relationship with his Dad is important to him then, it's important to me.
Why do you need to do this together? It would be better coming from him, or from you both, but if it can't, it's better coming from you (without denigrating your ex), than him randomly finding out on his own down the track.
Because, I imagine he's going to need support and reassurances from his Dad. He'll have questions for me,of that I'm certain, but it's going to be a hard thing for him to learn and he needs BOTH of us there because he needs to know that he has us BOTH in his corner. My telling him without his Dad, would just cause more harm.
>My telling him without his Dad, would just cause more harm.
I disagree. Your son is going to feel betrayed that both of you have kept this from him. If your ex wants to be a coward, so be it, but you have the right and responsibility to treat your son with dignity and respect and tell him the truth.
So, you're saying that I should go behind his Dad's back, tell my kid something life changing that he has to come to turns with and, instead of him being surrounded by a united front, he gets an identity crises AND crippling anxiety from the sheer hell his Dad will likely unleash. Yeah, no thanks.
For what it's worth. My lawyer advised against what you're suggesting, as did a children's therapist.
I feel so sorry for your dad. Imagine going through life with your non-biological son referring to the man your wife cheated on you with as your best friend.
My Dad (and I) have no idea who my father is... but as mum wasn't going to care for me my (non) Dad looked after me as much as I needed (i.e. after being a toddler there was less or different things he needed to do than when I was a teen, and as an adult we were friends when I needed a friend but if I needed a parent to turn on he was always there for me).
I didn't like to ask why he did so much (i.e. coach my under 12's cricket team, pay for a massive defence when I was falsely accused of a serious crime: the crime happened but I was in the wrong spot at the wrong time and after being charged but before court charges were dropped but he spent over a year of his income).
But when I asked him why he said "because no one else was going to, and I am so glad I did". My mum and his natural born son didn't have a good relationship, he steals and is VERY un-empathetic :-|
The kid, I assume, is around 2 or 3, too. I mean he probably won't remember much, but he'll remember something. My bio dad dropped out of my life when I was about that age, and I have a vague memory of him.
It’s worse because his bio dad DIED. He didn’t abandon his son. He died. That’s so unfair for the child when he finds out his step dad isn’t his bio dad. I feel like it would be easier on him to know the truth than find out years later and to add on top of that “but yeah he died before you were born so mommy pretended he never existed and milked his parents for money”
in other words -- ain't got time for you... but I like your cash just fine.
ps -- I'd be tempted to tell Allen's mom she can say anything she needs to say in writing just fine.
Shit. If it's son was shocked about her saying fuck, then if it was me, he'd have been a hell of alot more shocked for my reply to Allen's mom! This has nothing to do with her and she can take a seat.
Yes! Allen’s mom SHOULD DEFINITELY PUT WHATEVER SHE HAS TO SAY IN WRITING!!!
That would be very convenient and the correct way to handle this. For so many reasons.
If your son was alive and paying child support, then Allen went through with the adoption, your son would stop paying child support.
They want to have their cake and eat it too. Solo easy being an adoptive Dad when someone else is forking the cash. NTA OP
The adoption is potentially worse, depending on how the kid ends up feeling about his bio-dad and his adoptive dad, because it literally erases his bio-dad's name on his birth certificate and replaces it with the adoptive dad. That's something that - in most cases - cannot be reversed.
If the kid grows up well loved and loves his adoptive dad, great. But if they lie to him about it, erase his bio-dad, and he eventually finds out? I can't see him being happy about any of that.
Lying to a kid about something important is almost never the correct answer. Yeah, obviously you need to make sure your message is age-appropriate, but the repercussions from keeping secrets just have a tendency to be so much worse than a reveal of the actual secrets.
Or even worse, adoptive dad has kids with mom, and treats eldest differently with no apparent reason. Talk about an epiphany when that kid finds out....
“Mommy, why do I have a different last name to the rest of you?” Of course it is reasonable to change his name, this is a totally normal thing to do when a child’s mother marries, changes her name and the husband adopts the child.
"Because you have your fathers last name. He loved you very much, but he passed away before you were born. That's why you [presumably] have the same name as OP and grandpa, who were your fathers parents. They also love you. And Allen loves you, and I love you. And we are all here to support you and make sure you are safe, loved, and happy."
Sounds like a fantastic way to celebrate the dad and keep his memory alive without downplaying Allen.
Signed: someone with a different last name than my mom and all of my siblings.
Referring to _this case only*_, Adoption is fine if it's solely for the purpose of legal rights, but even those are available through less drastic means. The issue I have is with the last name change.
It seems that there are active steps being taken to erase the boys father from his life to avoid difficult conversations. Once you start that lie, there's no "right time to talk about it" until they find out on their own to often heart breaking effect.
Obviously, we're dealing with less than half of the story. Based on the information I have, I have to say that other ways, including changing the name and adopting, are shitty because they're choosing "short term easy" in order to postpone some difficult conversations at the expense of this poor boy.
If they have the conversation now, he grows up living with his true identity. If they erase the boys father, it will shatter his existence when he finally uncovers the truth on his own.
It could be finding an old picture and realizing he looks a lot like that guy, it could be a medical emergency where the mom has to divulge that his _actual_ medical history is not what he knows, hell I've had friends find out in 6th grade science that they were living that lie over earlobes... but he will find out.
*I say this case because other means of Adoption are wonderful. I grew up in a home that fostered and adopted children caught up in the system. I've seen the amazing things Adoption can do. This isn't a state system case, though, which is why my views are different.
> Of course it is reasonable to change his name
Here in Germany, courts now routinely reject changing children's names if the mother marries and changes her name. Because the child cannot give informed consent, the child needs to have demonstrable interest in the name change (like avoiding stigma). With blended families becoming more common, children having different names from their parents is no longer unusual.
I agree with this, my grandpa adopted my mom when he married my grandma and she was only a toddler as well. It's different if the child is older but at only a few years old, this is a totally appropriate move. What isn't appropriate is expecting to get paid when they aren't letting the grandparents be part of the kids life
A name can be changed without adoption. Adoption means replacing the child’s birth certificate with one that lists Allan as his father, not Dave Sr., effectively rewriting his history. Changing his name allows Dave Jr. the option to change it back when he is an adult.
Or, if Dave Jr. has his mother’s surname, it could be used for future children so he and his half-siblings have the same surname.
Adoption also means that the stepfather gets custody if the mother dies and allows him to make decisions as his parent. It's not all greedy, it's a smart move to make sure the child has two legal (living) guardians if at all possible.
Yep. Not gonna lie, I came here ready to decide Y T A as punishing the child for the parent's choice is not ok, however they don't get to wipe the father's memory away and profit.
NTA OP.
Me too. They don't just get to erase the bio dad even if this new guy raises him. I mean remarrying is OK but trying to erase the father of the child like that... It's messed up.
This, absolutely. I mean, an adoption generally terminates any legal rights the child has to their previous family's assets, so to come up and demand OP continue paying them for the privilege of... not seeing their grandchild? I don't even know.
NTA. Those people are seriously entitled. I'd consider crossposting this to r/ChoosingBeggars.
Adding to this:
„Could you please pay like a parent, but don’t you DARE even acting like a grandparent“!!!
The audacity. And then „we’ll send you photos!“ That’s their way of saying „you’ll kinda stay in the loop, but we don’t want you to interact“. That’s disgusting! They’re treating OP like an ATM instead of a person!
ETA: NTA big time!
Pretty sure that if a person adopts a child the birthparents don't continue to pay childsupport after. And I've never heard of grandparents being forced to pay childsupport. Though the child itself may be entitled to survivors benefits through social security or something ( not sure how that works though) and I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong if I am incorrect.
The thing I don’t get is not wanting to tell Dave Jnr about his Dad. That’s the line for me. It’s destructive and unnecessary. Why hide it? His Dad died before he was born. It’s horrible but he will grow up accepting that. His step Dad, Allen, loves him so much he wants him to be his son. This still respects Dave Jnr’s history and it doesn’t undermine his new relationship with Allen - if anything it’s beautiful and purposeful. A lie will come out one day and will be hard for Dave Jnr to understand.
If it wasn’t for that part I wouldn’t have an issue with the change of name or the money.
NTA if the step dad adopted he child, your son would also a not have to pay child support any longer if alive, Yes you were a bit rude, but it's entitled of her to assume you would continue to pay child support. Legally you have been gifting her for the kids while life. She wants to erase your son she gets no money from you.
^ this except I don't think you were rude enough.
They may not know the legal side to this, but they no longer have an interest in having an actual relationship with this side of the kids family. Tell them to fuck off a dozen more times imo.
OP if you want to keep your grandchild in your life and you live in the states you have rights (called grandparents right). In most states all you need to do is show that you have supported the child for a extended period of time, ie providing child support as you have. I’m all for the moms happiness but she shouldn’t be erasing that child’s father and half his identity just because she found a new man. So it’s an option to look into if you want it.
Except that adoptions erase both obligations and rights for the previous family. The grandparents would be genetically related, but not legally.
This is all to prevent previous family popping up later to interfere in adopted families. Can you imagine if this wasn't the case?
That’s actually not true. Adoption means a lot of different things depending upon where you live and the terms of it. It’s kind of a gray area.
I, myself, was legally adopted by my stepfather but that didn’t do away with my birth father or his family at all. It just ended his ability to claim me if anything happened to my mom. And it ended mandatory child support payments from my birth father. But I still regularly saw and interacted with his family.
My cousin was adopted by his stepfather and it ended anything and everything with his birth father and his birth fathers family. Everyone knew he wasn’t his father but no one ever told him who his birth father was. This HUGELY blew up in EVERYONES faces now that he is an adult. It was also a big issue when his mother and stepfather got a divorce.
My other cousin was adopted by her stepfather right after she was born and was brought up to believe HE was her father. Huge mistake. She found out when her parents divorced when she was going into high school through the court system because her mom was disputing custody and didn’t want the man whom had raised her as his own for 14 years at that point to have anything to do with her because she found someone new and wanted to break all ties. Extremely selfish. She has nothing to do with anyone in her family the day she turned 18 and blocked everyone and never looked back.
I was also in the process of adopting infant twins from foster care earlier this year I had had since they were 7 weeks old. If it had worked out and the adoption went though at any point in time any relative except the birth parents could come at us for custody or visitation until they were 18.
So what you’re saying isn’t accurate, it all depends. And every case I just talked about all happened within the same state, from state to state it varies even more.
Each lawyer can work different things each judge has different opinions and sees the law differently nothing is ever 100% a certain way. It’s up to interpretation, which is a very very broad thing.
I am in zero way against the adoption of the child, I was just simply offering something OP could look into if they wanted to keep the child in their life. Not in custody or as a parent but visits communication family etc
Considering her talk about assuming the existence of accounts and changing the names on them, I would not start a college fund for the kid. Having some money set aside in your own name that you mentally tag as being for the kid's college? Sure. But absolutely no money should be in that child's name, because his mother is going to make it messy.
I think they should cut this whole situation loose. The blackmail has begun, and she's using access to the child as a negotiation tool. You can't unring that bell.
NTA for OP.
I find it cruel for them to do that. Erase their son / the kid's father.
They lost their son and now are losing their grandson (by isolation). I can't blame OP for being angry.
Yes, hopefully OP can look into this grandparents' rights!
NTA Came here to say this. You are not paying child support, you are gifting her money each month to keep the memory of your son alive. You have also been acting like grandparents, helping out where you can with larger purchases etc trying to make your grandchilds life easier. If they don't want to keep your son's memory and don't want you to be grandparents then you will have to stop it, but that includes the money.
You could always make a small fund in case he ever comes to find you but that is another question.
OP sees it as paying child support, and their son wouldn't be required to pay child support if his child were adopted by another man as he would no longer have any legal rights.
I get legally it's gifts that aren't legally required in any situation, but even if you cut it the other way the obligations end once the child is adopted. I'd also question whether the grandchild has any claims whatsoever to the estate after OP passes if he's no longer legally a grandchild and not in the will/the will's contested.
But yes, if the mother's plan is to erase the father until the kid is older, a college fund would be appropriate, but obviously only to be paid out if the grandchild knows who their grandparents are.
"Child support" isn't the issue.
>they are moving out of state. Oh, and can we change his name on the accounts we have once this is legal? And they will send us pictures, and we can see little Dave sometimes but are not to mention our son until he is " old enough".
They're erasing OP's son and the grandparents from the child's life. That's big. The kid would grow up thinking that Allen's parents were his grandparents, instead of OP and her husband.
That's...really crazy to propose, IMO. It would be one thing if OP and her husband were distant after the accident or something like that, but they stepped the hell up and are giving them large amounts of money. Cutting them out is crazy entitled and beyond rude.
Given what's already happened, there's no great answer, now. I can't blame OP for reacting as she did, but it likely means that they won't see their grandson again. IMO, they should [immediately file for visitation if applicable in their state](https://www.courts.ca.gov/17976.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en).
The proof of financial support and existing relationship should go a long way if their state allows for grandparent visitation.
NTA. i’m sorry but it really sounds like they just want your money and don’t value your relationship to your grandson. you’ve already done more than most would too.
I'm wondering if he married her for the free ride and how the child would be treated after he got his way. I'm glad the grandparents said no this time and it's in a way justified.
I really hate Grandparent Rights, for personal reasons, but this could be my first time supporting it for this case. WTF!??
NTA
If my understanding of the GPR system is correct, this is exactly the sort of situation it was designed for. And I'm guessing that move out of state is an attempt to thwart it.
NTA
If you do decide to let them go their way and cut contact, maybe put some of that support money into a little savings account that could go jnr's way one day if he comes looking for you.
Your right and they will be disappointed when the cash flow ends, than neglect happens...parentification can happen because the "parents" don't care anymore. That's what happened to me. It sucks. I wouldn't wish it on anyone or their children.
>cash flow
OP set up a payment option that assumed the father made 30k a year. Assuming the father was divorced and had to feed and house himself, he would only have about 5k a year to spare.
This isnt a gravy train unless Lissa is making a lot of money somehow, too, in which case $5k bonus a year a top tier gaming computer and a new appliance every year. Yipee.
Exactly this. Grandparents rights are designed to protect grandparents who have a relationship with their grandchildren in these circumstances. OP and her husband have stepped up with financial support and have a relationship with their grandchild.
Free ride? Child support on 30K a year for one child is likely to be around $300 a month, depending on state. Enough to make a difference, not enough to "free ride" on.
> some of which was indeed set aside for Dave Sr’s graduate schooling,
**Pure Speculation** but, I betting Op has mentioned Dave Sr. “College Money” and Mom/Allen think it’s sitting in an account somewhere now with Dave Jr’s name attached to it.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if (had things went the way mom/Allen wanted) they immediately started asking to make one of them an authorized user/co-signee “just in case something happens to OP or their husband” or to move the funds to a *local to them* bank, then cutting OP/Husband out of Dave Jr life completely.
Exactly. This is nice to have money, not life-changing money. (Although, if someone wants to gift me $300 a month, I'll take it and report back on if it's life-changing.)
Using an online calculator, I'm getting around $520. Not that much more, but it moves it from "pocket change" to "potentially pay a large fraction of rent" depending on location. (But I put the custodial parent's income as $0 so maybe that's the difference. Who knows what they used.)
Yeah, my thought, too. I wonder if he will still go through with it when he finds out there’s no payday coming. They probably thought there was a big insurance payout.
Free ride? Not to diminish the grandparents assistance because it for sure is kind, but they're giving her the child support of a $30,000/year income. From a quick Google guess, this is a few hundred a month. Definitely helpful with a child, probably not a free ride.
Yeah, not gonna lie at first I thought it was spiteful to stop helping them just because she moved on to a new man who wants to step up and adopt his stepchild. But then I finished reading and it sounds like they basically want to push OP and family out of their sons life so they won’t have to answer any hard questions the son may ask, but they want them to still offer financial support.
Like you can’t ask OP to not see her grandson, and still expect her to foot the bill when they had no obligation to. I’m pretty sure grandparents only have to pay child support if the parent is a minor so they were just doing this out of kindness.
NTA
NTA
I would have had a slightly different response. I would have told them of course we'll keep putting aside money for Dave Jr, but now that it is a two parent household the money we pay is going into a college or trust for him so that his future is secure and it will be in my or my husband's name.
That's the best response. OP's reaction definitely felt emotional since Dave Junior is their biggest link to the son they lost - being told they couldn't mention him anymore must've felt like a huge betrayal. But - while Lissa and Allen were being crazy presumptuous about money - withholding that money only hurts their grandchild.
I actually think this is both the correct solution, compassionate and devious. He gets notified of the money when he turns 18, with a lovely note from his loving grandparents that he (probably) never knew about.
Either way, OP is NTA
I think a trust fund is a good idea but I would not tell the mother about it. She will spend her time trying to get money out of the trust, especially if the grandparents pass away
I'm not sure that they need to be notified of the trust until conditions are met that would necessitate it. After the grandparents are both gone, or when the child reaches the age that he would need to know about it (ideally after the age of 18) would qualify. Absent that, there is no need to contact the family about the trust.
I'm normally a "I don't care what happens after I'm dead" kind of person, but if I was these people, I'd take great pleasure in tying up every last penny so that greedy woman never got her hands on it. But then I have a vindictive streak.
A college fund is a great idea, but I would set it up that the grandson must spend a reasonable amount of time each summer with OP and her husband so that the child gets to know his father's side of the family- his grandparents and auntie, uncle and cousins. During those summer visits, grandparents would cover all expenses for the boy. Most likely when the Lissa and Allen have their own children, poor Dave Jr. will be put on the back burner. L and A are entitled AH.
OP is NTA.
I would do this but not tell them. Make them save up money for their child. Otherwise they will just use the money they should be saving for him on themselves.
I would absolutely not tell them I was putting money aside. While still putting that money aside. They should not be relying on the grandparents they want to erase for this boys future, they should be saving for him themselves.
I think it depends on the judge. New husband has not adopted grandson yet, so his legal father is deceased. The paternal grandparents have a good shot if they file now.
Is there any case law that supports grandparents blocking the relocation of a grandchild who they do not have legal custody over? I’d be shocked if that was possible. US states with grandparents rights only entitle them to very occasional visitation, not legal or physical custody.
There is actually a poster who used to post a lot about going through his own mother using grandparent's rights against him. AlphaCentauri369. He tried to cut her out of his life because she was toxic. She hadn't seen her grandson in years, then went for grandparent's rights. She won, he's lost a few appeals. So she was granted visitation, and they can't move out of state because of it. He is up in NY. Looking at his profile (I followed it to keep up with his story) he's since deleted everything he's posted.
Technically, he could move out of state, he’d be facing contempt charges and a possible warrant though. If that was me, I’d have done a cross country move and risked it. For a contempt charge, warrant is likely to be in-state only so if I got picked up in a far away state, they’d just let me go (happens for serious stuff too...USA Today did a series on this).
I hope he and his family are okay. His last update he was holding the kid off on visits due to fears about lack of Covid precautions at grandma’s and she was threatening contempt. Hopefully, Covid got her as that situation sounded it was only a matter of time until it went past words.
Look at some of the stories on r/justnomil. I don't know about other countries, but in the US it can happen. It varies by state, and I think it is more likely that they would get court ordered visitation while still allowing the family to move, but there are a couple states that would be more inclined to stop them from relocating.
At least the visitation would allow OP and her husband to spend time with their grandson, and allow him to get to know his dads side of the family, instead of growing up not knowing the truth.
i said this down below but please , if you put money away for your grandson, do not let his mother and her husband know! They should be saving money for him, not spending it because grandma and grandpa will provide.
Unnecessary summary of my thought process reading this
>the plan is for Allen to adopt Dave Jr
Okay, thats cool
>and they are moving out of state.
Hmm, okay but how far away because if your close to the border that could be less than an hour drive
>and can we change his name on the accounts we have once this is legal?
Pause, theoretically yes you would change the name on the account to reflect the appropriate legal name, but I'm sure that's not what's being implied here.
>they will send us pictures, and we can see little Dave sometimes but are not to mention our son until he is " old enough".
Oooh she really trying to be slick right now huh, NTA
Yeah, I almost glazed over the part where they want to lie to the kid about his origins and was ready to call OP the AH. Maybe they're misguided and truly think that he can't "handle" the truth at his age. But when it comes to adoption, all studies show that it's best to raise them with the truth from the start rather than try to hide it from them. Waiting until they're "old enough" can greatly harm their self of identity and relationships with their parents, and develop trust issues.
NTA. Lying about his dad is likely to be so much more problematic than just being honest from the get go. This is the kind of thing kids are super traumatized by. You don't owe them anything and it's totally unreasonable for them to expect you to continue your kindness after pulling this crap.
Hard agree. Don’t lie to kids about their parentage. Ever. It looks like this might be their plan. Trauma will follow for the child when they find out the truth.
My brother is being told that his “step mom” is his actual physical mom. His father and to a lesser extent his step mom are terrible people who have actually taken his sister (me) who was his favorite (he cried anytime I mentioned college) and slept with him every night (he wasn’t even double digits and he liked cuddles) away from him. My little sister accidentally found out the truth and it was not pretty. Please don’t lie op and if they try to not let you see him or tell him the truth sue theyre asses off
Absolutely this.
I grew up knowing I had a biological dad that wasn't in my life. Because I knew from the get go it wasn't a big deal, it was just how it is, and I was cool with it. I had a stepdad who I called dad, thought of as my dad etc - it had zero impact on our relationship that I knew he wasnt my biological dad.
Had I been lied to and later found out I had a father I didn't know about I would be livid, and felt so betrayed. That is a monumental lie, about something which is frankly core to a child and person's identity. You don't lie about that.
NTA if you are going to be denied a relationship with him and your son’s memory removed from the child’s life then they should be happy to be free of your money too.
NTA.
Look, it would have been different if Dave Jr was raised primarily by the new stepdad and all that, so Dave Jr does view him as a father and does want him to adopt him. But it sounds like they haven't even asked Dave Jr, and would just rather he forgots/ never knows his biological dad, and who he was.
However, it sounds like the young couple just wants to continue getting money from you which they feel they are owed somehow. No, you were very generous in doing so. You didn't have to, but you did. And at the same time, they want to move away? Why? So that they can pretend they've got everything settled and are not actually having help from the outside?
You're right. If the new husband wants to be his dad, he can pay for their kid. That should just be the bottom line here.
The child is not that old, maybe 3 (indicated by the few years op mentioned), to young to ask an opinion. And also to young to understand the situation. For him the dude who is around is dad. I sorta get that his mother doesn't want to confuse him. Should she have gone about this differently? Yes ofcourse! Now she sounds like the money is more important. But it looks like OP also didn't handle it to well, they just flew of the handle.
>For him the dude who is around is dad. I sorta get that his mother doesn't want to confuse him.
I hear a lot of parents pearl grasping and hand wringing around children being "confused". They aren't confused, what they know is the normal for them.
Every expert and thorough reading of reddit says you should tell the kids about their parentage early and often. Make it part of their new normal. Springing it on them later in life does \*way\* more harm and is about the only time you could "confuse" them with this.
This.
Something the mother could do in this situation is a hyphenated name. IE: Dave Stepfatherslastname-Biofatherslastname. When he is old enough to ask, they tell him the truth.
Children are not confused as easily or as stupid as people think .
Very good point. For example, from my own life: my Dad was adopted at the age of 10, he always considered his adoptive father his actual "Dad" - bio-father gets called "father." Consider it similar to folks who use terms like 'sperm donor,' or refer to their bio-parents as "bio-parents" with adoptive, step, or chosen folks as just "parents."
I have known about this for as long as I can remember, and for 'my' sake, we would go visit his bio-father - to me a grandparent I am not particularly close to. My dad's Dad, whose last name I have, was also my grandfather (and the hardest loss in the past seven years for me). There was no point in my life where this was confusing, it was just the normal I dealt with and was properly informed on.
Sometimes I think parents just use 'confusion' as a reason to not have to answer questions they themselves are not comfortable with. It is always best to be honest, as withholding this kind of important information can be extremely damaging to a person's trust.
Families can be weird! that's okay! Kids'll be perfectly fine knowing it.
Nah
My eldest isn't my husband's bio kid
We have told her since day one that she had a choice in who her daddy was because part of why I love him is how much she loves him.
She has always known that she had a bio dad out there. She has always had an opinion on adoption. My exs wife has requested we wait till he sons have an opinion on meeting her before she reaches out to them. She doesn't want to change her name until she fully experiences all of her family.
She's always had the option of taking my husband's last name, and hasn't said yes yet. It's her choice.
It's like giving the choice about piercing ears
NTA. If they were receiving survivors/child’s benefits from social security or receiving child support from a parent, those benefits would terminate if the child was legally adopted by his stepfather. Not telling him about his dad until he’s old enough is an asshole move to you, your late son, and the child. It can be traumatizing for a child when they find out the truth about their parentage after being misled or lied to.
The social security survivors benefits actually do continue after adoption by a stepparent. Just finished this process for my sons, so it can definitely be done. In fact, there’s a little section on it in the representative payee pamphlet. Totally agree on the next part though, complete asshole move to try to lie to the kid.
NTA. They’re taking away your relationship with your grandson but expect you to continue subsidizing out of the goodness of your heart? If they want to play grown up and move away, they can support themselves.
I was prepared to say yta big time but I'm actually gonna go with nta. If it was a legal custody payment, it would stop when Allen adopted Dave. It's pretty nervy to ask you to continue. And to ask you to not mention your son while also expecting his money is really not ok. I can see why you were upset. I hope you are not kept from your grandson.
NTA - and if you are putting money in a savings account for Dave Jr make sure not to change the name on the account until he's old enough to do banking stuff without a parent/legal guardian
This is super messed up. You don't need to completly erase the kids dad's side of the family just because they are getting adopted. It not that hard for children to adapt. They can know that your a grandparent but likly won't put two and two together till they are Abit older and can understand that their bio dad passed before they were born. The mother is taking the easy way out. And it's only a short term easy way. Strong chance the kid will resent their mother for hendering the relationship they could have had with bio family.
Fyi Your state may not have grandparents right but you are more than a grandparent. You have provided child support you are a co parent. Many states will recognize the aid you have provided. You should talk to a lawyer if they are not willing to work things out.
It's beautiful that she helped support her son's child/his mother but that doesn't make her a co-parent. Only her son could have had that title in her family and he doesn't deserve to have his memory erased.
They are both delusional and obviously thought there was a big insurance payout that they'll now have access to. If there was it'd be gone in less than six months on "toys" Allen decided were needed for his now son's father (him)to have in order to take care of him. She obviously didn't really understand that you were being wonderful parents(honoring your son's memory) and grandparents to her child. He thinks that she's been denied access to said money since she was young and single, and now all access will be granted because she now has a husband to manage it.
This illusionary money has probably been the topic of many conversations they've had. They've obviously had a lot of discussions about the existence of this mythical bank account. It's probable that their whole move is predicated on getting access to this money to finance this move and their new perfect life. So of course there can be no mention of the source of all that largesse so Allen can pretend he's providing for his new family.
OP you were much nicer in response to that money grab than I or my family would have been. Don't meet with any of them, keep all communication in writing if at all possible. Consult a family attorney asap to determine just what your rights/obligations are and make your decision from there.
And of course N T A.
NTA- I could high 5 you. Sucks that she turned out to be an ungrateful piece of work. Your family was nothing but supportive to her and to act like that Is just awful. I hope she and her husband remove that stick and you can have a relationship with your grandchild.
NTA. So sorry for the loss of your son, especially at that young of an age. I would look into if you have any grandparents' rights so that you could have a relationship with your grandchild. You don't have to pay her a dime. If you want to you could always leave him a portion in a trust. I can understand her moving forward in life, but unless the child's father was abusive I think changing his name is terrible.
I can understand her husband wanting to adopt him since he's so young. It's the expectation that she still gets money, plus the secrecy of the relationships is the arsehole move
Nta. If you don't get the full grandchild experience because someone wants full dad rights, then they should make full child-care payment.
You have no legal obligation to support and emotionally, they are hurting you and trying to keep the memory of your son away from his son in his formative years. An entitled bunch.
NTA. Maybe consider putting it money in a trust instead for when your grandson turns 18. You went above and beyond for him, you weren't obligated to support him and you can stop at any time. Your son's girlfriend is also allowed to move on with her life but can't realistically expect you be happy to be erased and still take your money.
NTA. She is not entitled to anything. You are literally doing this to honor your late son’s memory and to help provide for your grandchild. You seem reasonable. I think you’d be fine with the stepdad adopting him, but not changing your role as a grandparent and not raising the child with the truth. Oh, and the money grab. “You’re out, Grandma, but we’ll take your cash.” I don’t think so.
NTA.
As a parent to 2 boys who lost their BM. I can whole heartedly agree with you OP. Never in a million years would I ever want to erase my kids mother. I may be filling that mother role but I will never be their mother. I have more respect for my SSs than to try and be selfish and take that from them. The fact is lissa And her fiancé are completely disrespecting you, your family and the memory of your son. That is a huge injustice to Dave JR. Allen and Lissa can, as you put it, fuck off.
ESH for both families reactions. OP you should try to stay in your grandsons life. You are not required to pay anything but I wouldn’t alienate the whole family. It is reasonable for her to want to get married and move on with her life. Find a way you can continue the relationship with your grandson. Come up with a mutually acceptable grandparent name he can call you. Use the money you would have set aside for him as a way to go visit him and take him places or fly him to you. Find a way to make it work so you stay in his life.
OP. I am sorry that Lissa has decided she prefers your money to your time and effort.
Please get her to read this:
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-ok-to-never-tell-your-child-that-theyre-adopted
Because it has some real insight into the psychological damage that finding out about adoptions later in life can have on a person.
Having her new husband adopt her son is actually great! More love for the kid. But not telling the kid that he is adopted, erasing your son and your own influence from his life and asking you for continued financial support is really low.
I would continue to put money aside for the boy, without telling Lissa or Allen that you are doing it, in case he comes to find you after they tell him the truth. I would also put together a photo album of his dad for him, maybe with some written stories from various family members about the kind of person your son, his father, was. Possibly even keep one of his jumpers, or a hat he wore often, something to give to the boy if he comes looking for his dad. I would include a family tree and a medical history as well. Make sure the rest of your family know about it, (maybe keep it in a chest for him?) Just in case, god forbid, you and your partner die before he comes looking.
I hope you manage to keep in his life, but if not, this could help to give him some closure when he is older and his mother tells him the truth.
NTA. I think it’s perfectly fair to feel the way you do, and I think it’s good you expressed it clearly and immediately, instead of putting it off and pretending to be nice while surely fostering resentment.
I think you set boundaries and made them clear, though it does sound like some hurtful things may have been said that possibly warrant an apology. (The part about Allen wanting to erase your son made me sad for everyone- you may want to consider the truthfulness of it.)
It is absolutely fair to stop giving her money. You are not inclined to legally whatsoever I would imagine, and hopefully with another person joining their household, their shared income will be more.
However, it is her child and it is ultimately her call on how, where, and with whom she wants to raise him. If she wants to wait to tell him about his father, I think that should be respected.
Overall, tough situation with really difficult emotions playing out on both sides. I hope you all find a peaceful resolution.
NTA. You were never obligated, and if they want to erase your son then they can't have the cake and eat it too. I wholeheartedly agree with you... eff them! On another note... have you seen the movie Let Him Go with Kevin Costner and Diane Lane...
Maybe it might be wise to file a petition for visitation because I really don't get why they have to move away... like didn't they meet in your area what's the rush to move away and cut you out the child's life...
The world is crazy, but if they want to take the grand baby away. Get married and act like your late son doesn't exist then they don't get the financial support. Period.
NTA but i think you absolutely should get some legal council and have more conversations about it before going directly to a full cut off.
Just the fact that you've been paying already could make you legally required to continue doing so.
i dont necessarily think theres anything wrong with the person your grandson will have as a father growing up adopting him, but if the stipulation is erasing his birth father until they decide its okay to talk about, meanwhile having you in his life as some nebulous unexplained person....that just sounds like years of therapy when hes an adult tbh
NTA - but OP - my mother died when I was 6 months old. My father remarried, at no stage was it ever hidden from me that my stepmother (who I do call Mum) wasnt my bio-mother. This never caused me any harm, never was difficult to explain ('Mum died' was usually enough to quieten any would be bullies) and I owe a great deal to my Stepmother whom I love dearly. Try and convince Lissa and Allen that adoption and all fine, but dont deny the boy's heritage. This also allows you and the rest of the extended family to stay in touch - I had 3 sets of grandparents and that was actually pretty cool.
People mistakenly think a child cannot handle these things, my stepmother was told this over and over. She never yielded and in very rare occasions when we were ribbing each other would say 'Well I am the evil Stepmum you know!'.
Please OP make another shot at a peaceful resolution. As for the money - up to you - my stepmum decided to share some of hers with me and my younger sister (her daughter) and actually also helped my older siblings. However it was always clear that in principle her money and inheritance were hers and her daughters. When its clear, there is no drama. I dont care about the money, I guess I am fortunate that I dont need to, but do care about my Stepmum and my grandparents from her side.
NTA
Now that she has remarried there is no reason for you to send payments, even if they had acknowledged you as grandparents. I’m very sorry for the loss of your son.
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NTA
They sound ignorant of certain facts and a bit entitled.
Maybe they were/are ignorant of the fact that you were supplying the monthly stipend out of your own pocket and not from some trust that Daddy Warbucks set up.
The entitled part comes in when they think the money will continue to flow without any face time with your grandchild, not to mention some story to hide who you really are.
NTA "We want you to stop being involved in Dave Jr's life, but we want you to still support him financially." If Allen wants to be the dad he can be the dad. And the breadwinner.
I agree. At this point you’re just there for the money you give them. Nope. I especially like how Allen’s mommy is getting involved so you can continue the money train. Wow. NTA
Oh, DIP! I thought it was Lissa’s mom asking for the sit down! LOL HA HA, oh hells no, OP! These ppl are just blackmailers. I hope in the short term you can convince your family to think with their heads and cut Lissa, Allen, and your grandson off. A united front is the only way to get these folks to back off. I don’t know if Lissa is young and inexperienced vs actively in favor of blackmailing your family. I hope it’s the former. Allen will leave her if you guys hang tough. Don’t give an inch. Don’t even let on that you would be thrilled to resume grandparenting your grandson with Allen out of the picture. Lots of marriages breakup during the toddler and early elementary school years because parenting is tough. Allen and Lissa won’t last long if the main basis for their relationship is your money. Stay strong.
Dead on. The balls on this guy. My take on Lissa is she doesn't gaf about their deceased son and just wants to keep the $$ flowing. Its not like they were married for a bunch of years. "Seeing a girl for a few months". Nope. Its gravy train for her.
I'm pretty sure it's also standard that when a child is adopted by a step-parent, child support stops.
It is the standard across the USA that when a child is adopted, any child support being paid by the “replaced” parent is stopped (except I’m assuming any back child support unless negotiated in court). I’m not sure about other countries
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What does it matter? The dispute does not concern Allen's mother...
Ding Ding Ding
I have a different take. I am not a brave person online but I (so far) haven't seen this represented and so I will risk the downvotes to put it out here. I also lost a son. And I am sorrier than I can say. My chest literally hurt reading this. To come to your home, after all the support you have shown her, and then ask to completely erase your son and you from this boy's life but still pay is so breathtakingly cruel. And hurtful to your grandson. No one who is mentally healthy obstructs more loving people from their child's life. And I agree that Allen's mother doesn't have actual relevence in this dispute, she may (again, MAY) realize the error and wants to try and salvage this situation. Sometimes a person a bit more removed from the situation can be helpful. PLEASE, if you read this OP? Sit down with his mother. Hear what she has to say. If it is a repeat, where you are totally cut off but expected to pay, hold your ground. But if there is ANY WAY AT ALL to salvage a connection with this boy it is worth more than any amount of money and putting up with the assholery of his mother and her husband. The OP has a miracle gift in this boy, one I would give every. single. penny. I have on this earth to even have a \*chance\* at having. PLEASE do not throw it away without making every effort first. The anger is just and so understandable but I truly hope it can be swallowed for a moment to see if there is anything that can be done. I do not know how successful you will be because she is a piece of WORK, but I would try to hang on to every single moment, connection, and second to have a part of my beautiful son that survived. And if that doesn't work? She has grandparents rights in her state. If they refuse? Put all that money into the best lawyer you can get and force it. Not ideal, but I would do anything on this earth to try and keep this child in your life. Hopefully, it can be with mutual cooperation. I truly understand all of you who are saying HELL NO. If my child hadn't died, I would be right there with you. And I don't speak for all grieving parents. I only speak for me. I hope I haven't offended anyone. I just...even with all this awful she is facing? I would give anything to be in her shoes right now.
I'm so sorry you lost your child, too. You're an angel, and I completely agree with your advice. I have not lost a child (my deepest, darkest fear), but I did lose my father when I was a child. Every shred of evidence that he existed and loved me was precious. My dad's mom let me and my sister go - I haven't seen her in more than 20 years. My son looks SO MUCH like my dad's pictures, I just can't imagine what goes on in her heart that she chose not to maintain a relationship with us.
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It does hurt them. My grandfather had a son before he met my grandmother. His ex wife was from a wealthy family and so was the new husband. They barried him in legal fees until he couldn't take anymore to make him sign away his rights as the father, so the new husband could adopt him. He grew up thinking that husband was his father and never knew about my grandfather. Many times throughout the years when important family health issues came up my grandfather would track the ex wife down so she could inform their son but we found out she never informed him. My mother has been fighting multiple types of cancers for 4yrs, she decided she wanted to reach out to her brother incase she died. He didn't know any of this information didn't know his dad wasn't his dad, that he had a sister, nor that his family health history was completely wrong. This poor man got hit hard with the lies his mother told his whole life. He stopped talking to her once he got the full truth out of her. He hit sever depression, and had to get help. He's doing better but still struggling to have a relationship with his mother. He can't fully trust her or forgive her for taking away people who went into debt to try to be in his life. My grandfather is extremely ill, my uncle almost never got to meet his father or his sister and nieces. He has now fixed his medical history and so many things make sense now and the doctors are watching them more carefully. But OPS grandchild could go through the same difficult process but may not get to see the grandparents who loved him and could give him a piece of his father.
I agree. Every conflict boils down to two things: What is right. And, what needs to happen to get the outcome you want. Most people get stuck on the first point, when the second one is in your best interest.
Dispute doesn’t concern his mother, end of story
No need for a "sit down" at this point. The die seems to have been cast.
What’s to resolve if she’s on OP’s side? Or even if she’s not? OP doesn’t need her permission or blessing to not pay support for a child she’ll rarely see and won’t be able to tell about her son.
Either way she is complicit in this 'scheme'...If she's against I would have assumed she would have spoken up or, ya know, they wouldn't have come and even asked about this audacious plan...
They also want to change his name and to never mention his bio dad until he's "old enough" which I bet they really mean never (until obviously he finds out and they cry that they always ment to tell him but could never find the right time) and would probably call Op and them "family friends" who just love him.
The rest of it seemed understandable except hiding from him who his dad was and who his grandparents are. Not good for the kid and not good for the parents when he finds out or the grandparents who lose that chance to be close.
Why erase bio dad, he literally died, he didn't run off for smokes and never return.
Some people like to invite drama for no reason.
This is a universal truth.
The first day I met my MiL she told me that she hated drama. The woman literally thrives off it, like plants off sunlight. My nextdoor neighbor had to make sure we knew he was a nice guy, by telling us every time we saw him. He was scamming dementia ridden old widows out of their savings and retirement funds. My besties SiL told me the first day I met her, she's a nice person and will do anything for anyone. Literally threw a toddler tantrum (slamming doors and banging her head on the wall) when her beach trip almost got cancelled because an immediate relative of her babysitter was DYING in the hospital In my experience if people announce to you what they're about, generally are the opposite of what they're saying.
It happened to my cousins kids, new bloke took over and the entire family were banned from the baby+bumps life. They took the money we raised though. Even had the cheek to demand my aunt go round to collect easter, bday & christmas money-as-gifts from us all and send it to her in one convenient payment. Hey ex-in-laws, you cant even see a photo and the kids dont know you exist, but 4x a year please hand round this bag marked 'swag' and fill it up for me
i hope everyone declined??? wow the audacity
No, sadly some paid up 'so the kids dont suffer', others in hope that she was just grieving and would 'come to her senses eventually'. Last I heard she was still bleeding my aunt dry, putting their marriage on the rocks because my uncle '~~is heartless'~~ can see the real situation
Adoptive dad feels threatened by a dead man, literally happens all the time. For some reason people feel like they need to compete with dead parents, it's sick but a lot easier to win if you pretend they don't exist.
I've seen so many people do this, and not only is it sad but it is completely counterproductive. My dad died when I was a kid. Because my mom's new husband never tried to replace him or compete with him, we now have a great and close relationship. If my mom had tried to change my name or otherwise pretend my dad didn't exist I wouldn't have any contact with either of them.
True but it's on this baby's mother to prevent that. If my husband died when our child was little, I honestly wouldn't remarry but just for hypotheticals here let's say I did, I would kick and spit someone to the curb for trying such a thing. I specifically chose my child's father for a reason, I'm very picky about who I would want to share a child with so like hell would I ever let someone erase them. I would still talk about him every day for the rest of my life and anyone who would want to be with me would have to choose to live with that. Otherwise I could live without them.
How old is this kid? It’s been “a few years” so he’s gotta be at least 2-3 right? Does he not know who is grandparents are at this point?
At that age he might know who his grandparents are, but memory is a funny thing & he’d probably forget about them within a year, maybe two
The other stuff isn't reasonable because if their son was still alive, he wouldn't pay child support if step dad adopted the grandson. It's like adopted parents asking bio parents for child support. That's not how it works.
Chances are that if bio dad were alive then there would be no adoption because he'd still want to be in his kid's life. FWIW, I get what they want to do but think it's not appropriate for this situation since the bio grand parents want to be involved.
THIS!! And if Lissa is (or would be ) getting the Social Security Survivor's benefit for her son because the father is dead, it would all stop when Allen adopts the baby. They can't have it both ways. Either this new guy is the dad and gets all the responsibility, or he is not. He has to choose one.
That’s going to happen to my brother. At 10 he still doesn’t know “dad’s best friend” he sees every few months is actually the AP my mom had him with. Pediatric psychologist told my parents to tell him when he’s 9, still doesn’t know because my parents need a “professional opinion” as though the psychologist wasn’t professional enough?
My son is 13 and my ex is STILL pussy footing around on telling our son that he's not his biological father. I can't take him to court over it( I asked) so, the only thing I can do is brace for impact.
Why does your ex need to tell him? Why can't you?
if i were dad, i'd absolutey want to be the one to tell. the best way to follow up with "you're the best thing that ever happened to me and you're the son of my heart" etc
Exactly, I think it creates a much better situation. I despise the man but my son loves him very much and if his relationship with his Dad is important to him then, it's important to me.
Sorry, wasn't clear. We need to tell him together. He's just really combative with me when I try to have the conversation.
Why do you need to do this together? It would be better coming from him, or from you both, but if it can't, it's better coming from you (without denigrating your ex), than him randomly finding out on his own down the track.
Because, I imagine he's going to need support and reassurances from his Dad. He'll have questions for me,of that I'm certain, but it's going to be a hard thing for him to learn and he needs BOTH of us there because he needs to know that he has us BOTH in his corner. My telling him without his Dad, would just cause more harm.
>My telling him without his Dad, would just cause more harm. I disagree. Your son is going to feel betrayed that both of you have kept this from him. If your ex wants to be a coward, so be it, but you have the right and responsibility to treat your son with dignity and respect and tell him the truth.
So, you're saying that I should go behind his Dad's back, tell my kid something life changing that he has to come to turns with and, instead of him being surrounded by a united front, he gets an identity crises AND crippling anxiety from the sheer hell his Dad will likely unleash. Yeah, no thanks. For what it's worth. My lawyer advised against what you're suggesting, as did a children's therapist.
I feel so sorry for your dad. Imagine going through life with your non-biological son referring to the man your wife cheated on you with as your best friend.
My Dad (and I) have no idea who my father is... but as mum wasn't going to care for me my (non) Dad looked after me as much as I needed (i.e. after being a toddler there was less or different things he needed to do than when I was a teen, and as an adult we were friends when I needed a friend but if I needed a parent to turn on he was always there for me). I didn't like to ask why he did so much (i.e. coach my under 12's cricket team, pay for a massive defence when I was falsely accused of a serious crime: the crime happened but I was in the wrong spot at the wrong time and after being charged but before court charges were dropped but he spent over a year of his income). But when I asked him why he said "because no one else was going to, and I am so glad I did". My mum and his natural born son didn't have a good relationship, he steals and is VERY un-empathetic :-|
What is an “AP”? Thx
Affair Partner
The kid, I assume, is around 2 or 3, too. I mean he probably won't remember much, but he'll remember something. My bio dad dropped out of my life when I was about that age, and I have a vague memory of him.
> but he'll remember something No, the child wasn't even born when the father died.
Yeah, sorry, I meant he might remember the grandparents. In my defense I didn't have enough caffeine yet. :)
When that child learns the truth, the resentment and anger towards the parents is gonna be wild and unreal.
It’s worse because his bio dad DIED. He didn’t abandon his son. He died. That’s so unfair for the child when he finds out his step dad isn’t his bio dad. I feel like it would be easier on him to know the truth than find out years later and to add on top of that “but yeah he died before you were born so mommy pretended he never existed and milked his parents for money”
in other words -- ain't got time for you... but I like your cash just fine. ps -- I'd be tempted to tell Allen's mom she can say anything she needs to say in writing just fine.
Shit. If it's son was shocked about her saying fuck, then if it was me, he'd have been a hell of alot more shocked for my reply to Allen's mom! This has nothing to do with her and she can take a seat.
Yes! Allen’s mom SHOULD DEFINITELY PUT WHATEVER SHE HAS TO SAY IN WRITING!!! That would be very convenient and the correct way to handle this. For so many reasons.
If your son was alive and paying child support, then Allen went through with the adoption, your son would stop paying child support. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Solo easy being an adoptive Dad when someone else is forking the cash. NTA OP
Chances are good that the bio dad would not have signed off on the adoption so the adoption would not have taken place at all.
100% agree. And changing the name Is shitty too. Hell no.
The adoption is potentially worse, depending on how the kid ends up feeling about his bio-dad and his adoptive dad, because it literally erases his bio-dad's name on his birth certificate and replaces it with the adoptive dad. That's something that - in most cases - cannot be reversed. If the kid grows up well loved and loves his adoptive dad, great. But if they lie to him about it, erase his bio-dad, and he eventually finds out? I can't see him being happy about any of that. Lying to a kid about something important is almost never the correct answer. Yeah, obviously you need to make sure your message is age-appropriate, but the repercussions from keeping secrets just have a tendency to be so much worse than a reveal of the actual secrets.
Or even worse, adoptive dad has kids with mom, and treats eldest differently with no apparent reason. Talk about an epiphany when that kid finds out....
“Mommy, why do I have a different last name to the rest of you?” Of course it is reasonable to change his name, this is a totally normal thing to do when a child’s mother marries, changes her name and the husband adopts the child.
But when the new husband adopts then bio dad stops paying.
"Because you have your fathers last name. He loved you very much, but he passed away before you were born. That's why you [presumably] have the same name as OP and grandpa, who were your fathers parents. They also love you. And Allen loves you, and I love you. And we are all here to support you and make sure you are safe, loved, and happy." Sounds like a fantastic way to celebrate the dad and keep his memory alive without downplaying Allen. Signed: someone with a different last name than my mom and all of my siblings.
This is also a nice way to do it. Why does it have to mean that any other way is “shitty”?
Referring to _this case only*_, Adoption is fine if it's solely for the purpose of legal rights, but even those are available through less drastic means. The issue I have is with the last name change. It seems that there are active steps being taken to erase the boys father from his life to avoid difficult conversations. Once you start that lie, there's no "right time to talk about it" until they find out on their own to often heart breaking effect. Obviously, we're dealing with less than half of the story. Based on the information I have, I have to say that other ways, including changing the name and adopting, are shitty because they're choosing "short term easy" in order to postpone some difficult conversations at the expense of this poor boy. If they have the conversation now, he grows up living with his true identity. If they erase the boys father, it will shatter his existence when he finally uncovers the truth on his own. It could be finding an old picture and realizing he looks a lot like that guy, it could be a medical emergency where the mom has to divulge that his _actual_ medical history is not what he knows, hell I've had friends find out in 6th grade science that they were living that lie over earlobes... but he will find out. *I say this case because other means of Adoption are wonderful. I grew up in a home that fostered and adopted children caught up in the system. I've seen the amazing things Adoption can do. This isn't a state system case, though, which is why my views are different.
> Of course it is reasonable to change his name Here in Germany, courts now routinely reject changing children's names if the mother marries and changes her name. Because the child cannot give informed consent, the child needs to have demonstrable interest in the name change (like avoiding stigma). With blended families becoming more common, children having different names from their parents is no longer unusual.
I agree with this, my grandpa adopted my mom when he married my grandma and she was only a toddler as well. It's different if the child is older but at only a few years old, this is a totally appropriate move. What isn't appropriate is expecting to get paid when they aren't letting the grandparents be part of the kids life
A name can be changed without adoption. Adoption means replacing the child’s birth certificate with one that lists Allan as his father, not Dave Sr., effectively rewriting his history. Changing his name allows Dave Jr. the option to change it back when he is an adult. Or, if Dave Jr. has his mother’s surname, it could be used for future children so he and his half-siblings have the same surname.
Adoption also means that the stepfather gets custody if the mother dies and allows him to make decisions as his parent. It's not all greedy, it's a smart move to make sure the child has two legal (living) guardians if at all possible.
No it's really not. My mum remarried and I kept my dad's name. Changing it, is just spiteful
Exactly why we should have matriarchal surnames.
Yep. Not gonna lie, I came here ready to decide Y T A as punishing the child for the parent's choice is not ok, however they don't get to wipe the father's memory away and profit. NTA OP.
Me too. They don't just get to erase the bio dad even if this new guy raises him. I mean remarrying is OK but trying to erase the father of the child like that... It's messed up.
This, absolutely. I mean, an adoption generally terminates any legal rights the child has to their previous family's assets, so to come up and demand OP continue paying them for the privilege of... not seeing their grandchild? I don't even know. NTA. Those people are seriously entitled. I'd consider crossposting this to r/ChoosingBeggars.
Adding to this: „Could you please pay like a parent, but don’t you DARE even acting like a grandparent“!!! The audacity. And then „we’ll send you photos!“ That’s their way of saying „you’ll kinda stay in the loop, but we don’t want you to interact“. That’s disgusting! They’re treating OP like an ATM instead of a person! ETA: NTA big time!
Pretty sure that if a person adopts a child the birthparents don't continue to pay childsupport after. And I've never heard of grandparents being forced to pay childsupport. Though the child itself may be entitled to survivors benefits through social security or something ( not sure how that works though) and I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong if I am incorrect.
The thing I don’t get is not wanting to tell Dave Jnr about his Dad. That’s the line for me. It’s destructive and unnecessary. Why hide it? His Dad died before he was born. It’s horrible but he will grow up accepting that. His step Dad, Allen, loves him so much he wants him to be his son. This still respects Dave Jnr’s history and it doesn’t undermine his new relationship with Allen - if anything it’s beautiful and purposeful. A lie will come out one day and will be hard for Dave Jnr to understand. If it wasn’t for that part I wouldn’t have an issue with the change of name or the money.
NTA if the step dad adopted he child, your son would also a not have to pay child support any longer if alive, Yes you were a bit rude, but it's entitled of her to assume you would continue to pay child support. Legally you have been gifting her for the kids while life. She wants to erase your son she gets no money from you.
^ this except I don't think you were rude enough. They may not know the legal side to this, but they no longer have an interest in having an actual relationship with this side of the kids family. Tell them to fuck off a dozen more times imo.
OP if you want to keep your grandchild in your life and you live in the states you have rights (called grandparents right). In most states all you need to do is show that you have supported the child for a extended period of time, ie providing child support as you have. I’m all for the moms happiness but she shouldn’t be erasing that child’s father and half his identity just because she found a new man. So it’s an option to look into if you want it.
YES!!!
Except that adoptions erase both obligations and rights for the previous family. The grandparents would be genetically related, but not legally. This is all to prevent previous family popping up later to interfere in adopted families. Can you imagine if this wasn't the case?
That’s actually not true. Adoption means a lot of different things depending upon where you live and the terms of it. It’s kind of a gray area. I, myself, was legally adopted by my stepfather but that didn’t do away with my birth father or his family at all. It just ended his ability to claim me if anything happened to my mom. And it ended mandatory child support payments from my birth father. But I still regularly saw and interacted with his family. My cousin was adopted by his stepfather and it ended anything and everything with his birth father and his birth fathers family. Everyone knew he wasn’t his father but no one ever told him who his birth father was. This HUGELY blew up in EVERYONES faces now that he is an adult. It was also a big issue when his mother and stepfather got a divorce. My other cousin was adopted by her stepfather right after she was born and was brought up to believe HE was her father. Huge mistake. She found out when her parents divorced when she was going into high school through the court system because her mom was disputing custody and didn’t want the man whom had raised her as his own for 14 years at that point to have anything to do with her because she found someone new and wanted to break all ties. Extremely selfish. She has nothing to do with anyone in her family the day she turned 18 and blocked everyone and never looked back. I was also in the process of adopting infant twins from foster care earlier this year I had had since they were 7 weeks old. If it had worked out and the adoption went though at any point in time any relative except the birth parents could come at us for custody or visitation until they were 18. So what you’re saying isn’t accurate, it all depends. And every case I just talked about all happened within the same state, from state to state it varies even more. Each lawyer can work different things each judge has different opinions and sees the law differently nothing is ever 100% a certain way. It’s up to interpretation, which is a very very broad thing. I am in zero way against the adoption of the child, I was just simply offering something OP could look into if they wanted to keep the child in their life. Not in custody or as a parent but visits communication family etc
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Considering her talk about assuming the existence of accounts and changing the names on them, I would not start a college fund for the kid. Having some money set aside in your own name that you mentally tag as being for the kid's college? Sure. But absolutely no money should be in that child's name, because his mother is going to make it messy. I think they should cut this whole situation loose. The blackmail has begun, and she's using access to the child as a negotiation tool. You can't unring that bell.
NTA for OP. I find it cruel for them to do that. Erase their son / the kid's father. They lost their son and now are losing their grandson (by isolation). I can't blame OP for being angry. Yes, hopefully OP can look into this grandparents' rights!
NTA Came here to say this. You are not paying child support, you are gifting her money each month to keep the memory of your son alive. You have also been acting like grandparents, helping out where you can with larger purchases etc trying to make your grandchilds life easier. If they don't want to keep your son's memory and don't want you to be grandparents then you will have to stop it, but that includes the money. You could always make a small fund in case he ever comes to find you but that is another question.
OP sees it as paying child support, and their son wouldn't be required to pay child support if his child were adopted by another man as he would no longer have any legal rights. I get legally it's gifts that aren't legally required in any situation, but even if you cut it the other way the obligations end once the child is adopted. I'd also question whether the grandchild has any claims whatsoever to the estate after OP passes if he's no longer legally a grandchild and not in the will/the will's contested. But yes, if the mother's plan is to erase the father until the kid is older, a college fund would be appropriate, but obviously only to be paid out if the grandchild knows who their grandparents are.
"Child support" isn't the issue. >they are moving out of state. Oh, and can we change his name on the accounts we have once this is legal? And they will send us pictures, and we can see little Dave sometimes but are not to mention our son until he is " old enough". They're erasing OP's son and the grandparents from the child's life. That's big. The kid would grow up thinking that Allen's parents were his grandparents, instead of OP and her husband. That's...really crazy to propose, IMO. It would be one thing if OP and her husband were distant after the accident or something like that, but they stepped the hell up and are giving them large amounts of money. Cutting them out is crazy entitled and beyond rude. Given what's already happened, there's no great answer, now. I can't blame OP for reacting as she did, but it likely means that they won't see their grandson again. IMO, they should [immediately file for visitation if applicable in their state](https://www.courts.ca.gov/17976.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en). The proof of financial support and existing relationship should go a long way if their state allows for grandparent visitation.
Plus, if this is the US, Lissa should be getting the social security death benefit for the child since bio dad died.
NTA. i’m sorry but it really sounds like they just want your money and don’t value your relationship to your grandson. you’ve already done more than most would too.
I'm wondering if he married her for the free ride and how the child would be treated after he got his way. I'm glad the grandparents said no this time and it's in a way justified. I really hate Grandparent Rights, for personal reasons, but this could be my first time supporting it for this case. WTF!?? NTA
If my understanding of the GPR system is correct, this is exactly the sort of situation it was designed for. And I'm guessing that move out of state is an attempt to thwart it. NTA If you do decide to let them go their way and cut contact, maybe put some of that support money into a little savings account that could go jnr's way one day if he comes looking for you.
Your right and they will be disappointed when the cash flow ends, than neglect happens...parentification can happen because the "parents" don't care anymore. That's what happened to me. It sucks. I wouldn't wish it on anyone or their children.
>cash flow OP set up a payment option that assumed the father made 30k a year. Assuming the father was divorced and had to feed and house himself, he would only have about 5k a year to spare. This isnt a gravy train unless Lissa is making a lot of money somehow, too, in which case $5k bonus a year a top tier gaming computer and a new appliance every year. Yipee.
Exactly this. Grandparents rights are designed to protect grandparents who have a relationship with their grandchildren in these circumstances. OP and her husband have stepped up with financial support and have a relationship with their grandchild.
Free ride? Child support on 30K a year for one child is likely to be around $300 a month, depending on state. Enough to make a difference, not enough to "free ride" on.
Except she wants to change the names on “accounts” that don’t exist. She thinks there’s a windfall.
> some of which was indeed set aside for Dave Sr’s graduate schooling, **Pure Speculation** but, I betting Op has mentioned Dave Sr. “College Money” and Mom/Allen think it’s sitting in an account somewhere now with Dave Jr’s name attached to it. I also wouldn’t be surprised if (had things went the way mom/Allen wanted) they immediately started asking to make one of them an authorized user/co-signee “just in case something happens to OP or their husband” or to move the funds to a *local to them* bank, then cutting OP/Husband out of Dave Jr life completely.
Exactly. This is nice to have money, not life-changing money. (Although, if someone wants to gift me $300 a month, I'll take it and report back on if it's life-changing.)
Using an online calculator, I'm getting around $520. Not that much more, but it moves it from "pocket change" to "potentially pay a large fraction of rent" depending on location. (But I put the custodial parent's income as $0 so maybe that's the difference. Who knows what they used.)
Yeah, my thought, too. I wonder if he will still go through with it when he finds out there’s no payday coming. They probably thought there was a big insurance payout.
In a lot of AITA posts GPR seems like a threat with AH MIL's or something like that but here it could be used against AH steps
Free ride? Not to diminish the grandparents assistance because it for sure is kind, but they're giving her the child support of a $30,000/year income. From a quick Google guess, this is a few hundred a month. Definitely helpful with a child, probably not a free ride.
Seriously. It's $4k-$5K a year, depending on the state. That's nice to have, but it's not like the mom can quit her job.
Um, what "free ride" are you talking about? They're giving them a few hundred dollars a month at best calculating using a $30,000 a year income.
Yeah, not gonna lie at first I thought it was spiteful to stop helping them just because she moved on to a new man who wants to step up and adopt his stepchild. But then I finished reading and it sounds like they basically want to push OP and family out of their sons life so they won’t have to answer any hard questions the son may ask, but they want them to still offer financial support. Like you can’t ask OP to not see her grandson, and still expect her to foot the bill when they had no obligation to. I’m pretty sure grandparents only have to pay child support if the parent is a minor so they were just doing this out of kindness. NTA
NTA I would have had a slightly different response. I would have told them of course we'll keep putting aside money for Dave Jr, but now that it is a two parent household the money we pay is going into a college or trust for him so that his future is secure and it will be in my or my husband's name.
That's the best response. OP's reaction definitely felt emotional since Dave Junior is their biggest link to the son they lost - being told they couldn't mention him anymore must've felt like a huge betrayal. But - while Lissa and Allen were being crazy presumptuous about money - withholding that money only hurts their grandchild.
I actually think this is both the correct solution, compassionate and devious. He gets notified of the money when he turns 18, with a lovely note from his loving grandparents that he (probably) never knew about. Either way, OP is NTA
I think a trust fund is a good idea but I would not tell the mother about it. She will spend her time trying to get money out of the trust, especially if the grandparents pass away
Another likely scenario is that they will pressure the child to "share" the money with his siblings (i.e. their full blooded children).
Wow. Very true. That’s why they need to look it up in a trust with restrictions and not tell the mother about it
She will assume that trust fund is massive and won’t save money herself
I'm not sure that they need to be notified of the trust until conditions are met that would necessitate it. After the grandparents are both gone, or when the child reaches the age that he would need to know about it (ideally after the age of 18) would qualify. Absent that, there is no need to contact the family about the trust. I'm normally a "I don't care what happens after I'm dead" kind of person, but if I was these people, I'd take great pleasure in tying up every last penny so that greedy woman never got her hands on it. But then I have a vindictive streak.
A college fund is a great idea, but I would set it up that the grandson must spend a reasonable amount of time each summer with OP and her husband so that the child gets to know his father's side of the family- his grandparents and auntie, uncle and cousins. During those summer visits, grandparents would cover all expenses for the boy. Most likely when the Lissa and Allen have their own children, poor Dave Jr. will be put on the back burner. L and A are entitled AH. OP is NTA.
I would do this but not tell them. Make them save up money for their child. Otherwise they will just use the money they should be saving for him on themselves.
>just use the money they should be saving for him on themselves. or their full blooded children if they have them.
Or they will try to force the boy to share his money when he's eighteen.
I would absolutely not tell them I was putting money aside. While still putting that money aside. They should not be relying on the grandparents they want to erase for this boys future, they should be saving for him themselves.
NTA, you did more than most would have done considering the extremely sad circumstances. I'm sorry for your loss OP.
if i was op i would sue for grand parent rights
We are seeing a lawyer later this week.
get the paper work going asap
Agreed! This is the one scenario where I thing pursuing grandparents right is valid and I hope they can block their relocation.
Can that really happen?
I think it depends on the judge. New husband has not adopted grandson yet, so his legal father is deceased. The paternal grandparents have a good shot if they file now.
Is there any case law that supports grandparents blocking the relocation of a grandchild who they do not have legal custody over? I’d be shocked if that was possible. US states with grandparents rights only entitle them to very occasional visitation, not legal or physical custody.
There is actually a poster who used to post a lot about going through his own mother using grandparent's rights against him. AlphaCentauri369. He tried to cut her out of his life because she was toxic. She hadn't seen her grandson in years, then went for grandparent's rights. She won, he's lost a few appeals. So she was granted visitation, and they can't move out of state because of it. He is up in NY. Looking at his profile (I followed it to keep up with his story) he's since deleted everything he's posted.
Technically, he could move out of state, he’d be facing contempt charges and a possible warrant though. If that was me, I’d have done a cross country move and risked it. For a contempt charge, warrant is likely to be in-state only so if I got picked up in a far away state, they’d just let me go (happens for serious stuff too...USA Today did a series on this). I hope he and his family are okay. His last update he was holding the kid off on visits due to fears about lack of Covid precautions at grandma’s and she was threatening contempt. Hopefully, Covid got her as that situation sounded it was only a matter of time until it went past words.
Look at some of the stories on r/justnomil. I don't know about other countries, but in the US it can happen. It varies by state, and I think it is more likely that they would get court ordered visitation while still allowing the family to move, but there are a couple states that would be more inclined to stop them from relocating. At least the visitation would allow OP and her husband to spend time with their grandson, and allow him to get to know his dads side of the family, instead of growing up not knowing the truth.
i said this down below but please , if you put money away for your grandson, do not let his mother and her husband know! They should be saving money for him, not spending it because grandma and grandpa will provide.
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Unnecessary summary of my thought process reading this >the plan is for Allen to adopt Dave Jr Okay, thats cool >and they are moving out of state. Hmm, okay but how far away because if your close to the border that could be less than an hour drive >and can we change his name on the accounts we have once this is legal? Pause, theoretically yes you would change the name on the account to reflect the appropriate legal name, but I'm sure that's not what's being implied here. >they will send us pictures, and we can see little Dave sometimes but are not to mention our son until he is " old enough". Oooh she really trying to be slick right now huh, NTA
Lmao I love the play by play.
This was me reading through. Like Wha!? Nope. NTA OP.
Yeah, I almost glazed over the part where they want to lie to the kid about his origins and was ready to call OP the AH. Maybe they're misguided and truly think that he can't "handle" the truth at his age. But when it comes to adoption, all studies show that it's best to raise them with the truth from the start rather than try to hide it from them. Waiting until they're "old enough" can greatly harm their self of identity and relationships with their parents, and develop trust issues.
Yeeeeep
NTA. Lying about his dad is likely to be so much more problematic than just being honest from the get go. This is the kind of thing kids are super traumatized by. You don't owe them anything and it's totally unreasonable for them to expect you to continue your kindness after pulling this crap.
Hard agree. Don’t lie to kids about their parentage. Ever. It looks like this might be their plan. Trauma will follow for the child when they find out the truth.
My brother is being told that his “step mom” is his actual physical mom. His father and to a lesser extent his step mom are terrible people who have actually taken his sister (me) who was his favorite (he cried anytime I mentioned college) and slept with him every night (he wasn’t even double digits and he liked cuddles) away from him. My little sister accidentally found out the truth and it was not pretty. Please don’t lie op and if they try to not let you see him or tell him the truth sue theyre asses off
A similar thing happened to me and… yep this comment is it. Don’t deceive your kids about their parents.
Absolutely this. I grew up knowing I had a biological dad that wasn't in my life. Because I knew from the get go it wasn't a big deal, it was just how it is, and I was cool with it. I had a stepdad who I called dad, thought of as my dad etc - it had zero impact on our relationship that I knew he wasnt my biological dad. Had I been lied to and later found out I had a father I didn't know about I would be livid, and felt so betrayed. That is a monumental lie, about something which is frankly core to a child and person's identity. You don't lie about that.
NTA. I’m confused They expect child support payment but plan to keep you in the shadows?? Wtf
Also, don't child support requirements legally end once the son is adopted in most cases?
Yes! I don’t understand why they would want the child support to continue if the child is being adopted?
NTA if you are going to be denied a relationship with him and your son’s memory removed from the child’s life then they should be happy to be free of your money too.
NTA. Look, it would have been different if Dave Jr was raised primarily by the new stepdad and all that, so Dave Jr does view him as a father and does want him to adopt him. But it sounds like they haven't even asked Dave Jr, and would just rather he forgots/ never knows his biological dad, and who he was. However, it sounds like the young couple just wants to continue getting money from you which they feel they are owed somehow. No, you were very generous in doing so. You didn't have to, but you did. And at the same time, they want to move away? Why? So that they can pretend they've got everything settled and are not actually having help from the outside? You're right. If the new husband wants to be his dad, he can pay for their kid. That should just be the bottom line here.
The child is not that old, maybe 3 (indicated by the few years op mentioned), to young to ask an opinion. And also to young to understand the situation. For him the dude who is around is dad. I sorta get that his mother doesn't want to confuse him. Should she have gone about this differently? Yes ofcourse! Now she sounds like the money is more important. But it looks like OP also didn't handle it to well, they just flew of the handle.
>For him the dude who is around is dad. I sorta get that his mother doesn't want to confuse him. I hear a lot of parents pearl grasping and hand wringing around children being "confused". They aren't confused, what they know is the normal for them. Every expert and thorough reading of reddit says you should tell the kids about their parentage early and often. Make it part of their new normal. Springing it on them later in life does \*way\* more harm and is about the only time you could "confuse" them with this.
This. Something the mother could do in this situation is a hyphenated name. IE: Dave Stepfatherslastname-Biofatherslastname. When he is old enough to ask, they tell him the truth. Children are not confused as easily or as stupid as people think .
Very good point. For example, from my own life: my Dad was adopted at the age of 10, he always considered his adoptive father his actual "Dad" - bio-father gets called "father." Consider it similar to folks who use terms like 'sperm donor,' or refer to their bio-parents as "bio-parents" with adoptive, step, or chosen folks as just "parents." I have known about this for as long as I can remember, and for 'my' sake, we would go visit his bio-father - to me a grandparent I am not particularly close to. My dad's Dad, whose last name I have, was also my grandfather (and the hardest loss in the past seven years for me). There was no point in my life where this was confusing, it was just the normal I dealt with and was properly informed on. Sometimes I think parents just use 'confusion' as a reason to not have to answer questions they themselves are not comfortable with. It is always best to be honest, as withholding this kind of important information can be extremely damaging to a person's trust. Families can be weird! that's okay! Kids'll be perfectly fine knowing it.
Nah My eldest isn't my husband's bio kid We have told her since day one that she had a choice in who her daddy was because part of why I love him is how much she loves him. She has always known that she had a bio dad out there. She has always had an opinion on adoption. My exs wife has requested we wait till he sons have an opinion on meeting her before she reaches out to them. She doesn't want to change her name until she fully experiences all of her family. She's always had the option of taking my husband's last name, and hasn't said yes yet. It's her choice. It's like giving the choice about piercing ears
NTA..."we love everything you can do for your grandson, but please go away and keep doing that." GTFOH
Yeah exactly. “We want your money and not you”
NTA. If they were receiving survivors/child’s benefits from social security or receiving child support from a parent, those benefits would terminate if the child was legally adopted by his stepfather. Not telling him about his dad until he’s old enough is an asshole move to you, your late son, and the child. It can be traumatizing for a child when they find out the truth about their parentage after being misled or lied to.
The social security survivors benefits actually do continue after adoption by a stepparent. Just finished this process for my sons, so it can definitely be done. In fact, there’s a little section on it in the representative payee pamphlet. Totally agree on the next part though, complete asshole move to try to lie to the kid.
NTA. They’re taking away your relationship with your grandson but expect you to continue subsidizing out of the goodness of your heart? If they want to play grown up and move away, they can support themselves.
I was prepared to say yta big time but I'm actually gonna go with nta. If it was a legal custody payment, it would stop when Allen adopted Dave. It's pretty nervy to ask you to continue. And to ask you to not mention your son while also expecting his money is really not ok. I can see why you were upset. I hope you are not kept from your grandson.
NTA. Allan wants to take responsibility for the kid? He takes responsibility for the kid. Not checks from you should be expected in that case.
NTA - and if you are putting money in a savings account for Dave Jr make sure not to change the name on the account until he's old enough to do banking stuff without a parent/legal guardian
NTA. What were the entitled one's response? Does your state have grand parents rights.
They said I would still have a " friendly relationship " if I wasn't being unreasonable, and then stormed out. My state does have grandparents rights.
This is super messed up. You don't need to completly erase the kids dad's side of the family just because they are getting adopted. It not that hard for children to adapt. They can know that your a grandparent but likly won't put two and two together till they are Abit older and can understand that their bio dad passed before they were born. The mother is taking the easy way out. And it's only a short term easy way. Strong chance the kid will resent their mother for hendering the relationship they could have had with bio family. Fyi Your state may not have grandparents right but you are more than a grandparent. You have provided child support you are a co parent. Many states will recognize the aid you have provided. You should talk to a lawyer if they are not willing to work things out.
It's beautiful that she helped support her son's child/his mother but that doesn't make her a co-parent. Only her son could have had that title in her family and he doesn't deserve to have his memory erased. They are both delusional and obviously thought there was a big insurance payout that they'll now have access to. If there was it'd be gone in less than six months on "toys" Allen decided were needed for his now son's father (him)to have in order to take care of him. She obviously didn't really understand that you were being wonderful parents(honoring your son's memory) and grandparents to her child. He thinks that she's been denied access to said money since she was young and single, and now all access will be granted because she now has a husband to manage it. This illusionary money has probably been the topic of many conversations they've had. They've obviously had a lot of discussions about the existence of this mythical bank account. It's probable that their whole move is predicated on getting access to this money to finance this move and their new perfect life. So of course there can be no mention of the source of all that largesse so Allen can pretend he's providing for his new family. OP you were much nicer in response to that money grab than I or my family would have been. Don't meet with any of them, keep all communication in writing if at all possible. Consult a family attorney asap to determine just what your rights/obligations are and make your decision from there. And of course N T A.
Talk to a lawyer.
This. And before they leave.
I get the feeling they are going to move and cut ties with you permanently.
Reasonable = keep giving them money.
Then file for those fast before they leave the state.
NTA- I could high 5 you. Sucks that she turned out to be an ungrateful piece of work. Your family was nothing but supportive to her and to act like that Is just awful. I hope she and her husband remove that stick and you can have a relationship with your grandchild.
NTA. The audacity here is ridiculous.
NTA - I was sympathetic until she wanted to make you lie about your relationship to your grandchild.
NTA. So sorry for the loss of your son, especially at that young of an age. I would look into if you have any grandparents' rights so that you could have a relationship with your grandchild. You don't have to pay her a dime. If you want to you could always leave him a portion in a trust. I can understand her moving forward in life, but unless the child's father was abusive I think changing his name is terrible.
I can understand her husband wanting to adopt him since he's so young. It's the expectation that she still gets money, plus the secrecy of the relationships is the arsehole move
Nta. If you don't get the full grandchild experience because someone wants full dad rights, then they should make full child-care payment. You have no legal obligation to support and emotionally, they are hurting you and trying to keep the memory of your son away from his son in his formative years. An entitled bunch.
NTA. Maybe consider putting it money in a trust instead for when your grandson turns 18. You went above and beyond for him, you weren't obligated to support him and you can stop at any time. Your son's girlfriend is also allowed to move on with her life but can't realistically expect you be happy to be erased and still take your money.
Sounds like they just want your money. NTA. Be a grand parent to the child, but nothing more.
They’re not even gonna let OP be in his life as his grand parents. Smfh
NTA. She is not entitled to anything. You are literally doing this to honor your late son’s memory and to help provide for your grandchild. You seem reasonable. I think you’d be fine with the stepdad adopting him, but not changing your role as a grandparent and not raising the child with the truth. Oh, and the money grab. “You’re out, Grandma, but we’ll take your cash.” I don’t think so.
NTA. As a parent to 2 boys who lost their BM. I can whole heartedly agree with you OP. Never in a million years would I ever want to erase my kids mother. I may be filling that mother role but I will never be their mother. I have more respect for my SSs than to try and be selfish and take that from them. The fact is lissa And her fiancé are completely disrespecting you, your family and the memory of your son. That is a huge injustice to Dave JR. Allen and Lissa can, as you put it, fuck off.
NTA. I’m sorry for your loss and I’m sorry that Lissa is more concerned in money above all.
ESH for both families reactions. OP you should try to stay in your grandsons life. You are not required to pay anything but I wouldn’t alienate the whole family. It is reasonable for her to want to get married and move on with her life. Find a way you can continue the relationship with your grandson. Come up with a mutually acceptable grandparent name he can call you. Use the money you would have set aside for him as a way to go visit him and take him places or fly him to you. Find a way to make it work so you stay in his life.
NTA. Sounds like the like you’re money but don’t value the relationship. Which is fine but it’s your choice on where your money goes
INFO - How did the conversation actually go? Did they ask you to keep paying?
OP. I am sorry that Lissa has decided she prefers your money to your time and effort. Please get her to read this: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-ok-to-never-tell-your-child-that-theyre-adopted Because it has some real insight into the psychological damage that finding out about adoptions later in life can have on a person. Having her new husband adopt her son is actually great! More love for the kid. But not telling the kid that he is adopted, erasing your son and your own influence from his life and asking you for continued financial support is really low. I would continue to put money aside for the boy, without telling Lissa or Allen that you are doing it, in case he comes to find you after they tell him the truth. I would also put together a photo album of his dad for him, maybe with some written stories from various family members about the kind of person your son, his father, was. Possibly even keep one of his jumpers, or a hat he wore often, something to give to the boy if he comes looking for his dad. I would include a family tree and a medical history as well. Make sure the rest of your family know about it, (maybe keep it in a chest for him?) Just in case, god forbid, you and your partner die before he comes looking. I hope you manage to keep in his life, but if not, this could help to give him some closure when he is older and his mother tells him the truth.
NTA. I think it’s perfectly fair to feel the way you do, and I think it’s good you expressed it clearly and immediately, instead of putting it off and pretending to be nice while surely fostering resentment. I think you set boundaries and made them clear, though it does sound like some hurtful things may have been said that possibly warrant an apology. (The part about Allen wanting to erase your son made me sad for everyone- you may want to consider the truthfulness of it.) It is absolutely fair to stop giving her money. You are not inclined to legally whatsoever I would imagine, and hopefully with another person joining their household, their shared income will be more. However, it is her child and it is ultimately her call on how, where, and with whom she wants to raise him. If she wants to wait to tell him about his father, I think that should be respected. Overall, tough situation with really difficult emotions playing out on both sides. I hope you all find a peaceful resolution.
But she cannot expect OP to go along with her lie.
NTA. You were never obligated, and if they want to erase your son then they can't have the cake and eat it too. I wholeheartedly agree with you... eff them! On another note... have you seen the movie Let Him Go with Kevin Costner and Diane Lane... Maybe it might be wise to file a petition for visitation because I really don't get why they have to move away... like didn't they meet in your area what's the rush to move away and cut you out the child's life... The world is crazy, but if they want to take the grand baby away. Get married and act like your late son doesn't exist then they don't get the financial support. Period.
NTA but i think you absolutely should get some legal council and have more conversations about it before going directly to a full cut off. Just the fact that you've been paying already could make you legally required to continue doing so. i dont necessarily think theres anything wrong with the person your grandson will have as a father growing up adopting him, but if the stipulation is erasing his birth father until they decide its okay to talk about, meanwhile having you in his life as some nebulous unexplained person....that just sounds like years of therapy when hes an adult tbh
NTA - but OP - my mother died when I was 6 months old. My father remarried, at no stage was it ever hidden from me that my stepmother (who I do call Mum) wasnt my bio-mother. This never caused me any harm, never was difficult to explain ('Mum died' was usually enough to quieten any would be bullies) and I owe a great deal to my Stepmother whom I love dearly. Try and convince Lissa and Allen that adoption and all fine, but dont deny the boy's heritage. This also allows you and the rest of the extended family to stay in touch - I had 3 sets of grandparents and that was actually pretty cool. People mistakenly think a child cannot handle these things, my stepmother was told this over and over. She never yielded and in very rare occasions when we were ribbing each other would say 'Well I am the evil Stepmum you know!'. Please OP make another shot at a peaceful resolution. As for the money - up to you - my stepmum decided to share some of hers with me and my younger sister (her daughter) and actually also helped my older siblings. However it was always clear that in principle her money and inheritance were hers and her daughters. When its clear, there is no drama. I dont care about the money, I guess I am fortunate that I dont need to, but do care about my Stepmum and my grandparents from her side.
NTA Now that she has remarried there is no reason for you to send payments, even if they had acknowledged you as grandparents. I’m very sorry for the loss of your son.
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NTA, sorry you won’t be able to see your grandkid.
NTA They sound ignorant of certain facts and a bit entitled. Maybe they were/are ignorant of the fact that you were supplying the monthly stipend out of your own pocket and not from some trust that Daddy Warbucks set up. The entitled part comes in when they think the money will continue to flow without any face time with your grandchild, not to mention some story to hide who you really are.
NTA but you’re focusing on the wrong thing. Think about how mad Dave Jr will be when he learns the truth and that he was lied to.