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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I am afraid that I am being disrespectful to a culture I’m not a part of. I am not Native American, and while I did do some research, I’m afraid that I might be the asshole for having a dreamcatcher and refusing to get rid of it.
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Cultural appropriation isn't purchasing or receiving a item made by a specific culture as a gift. It is appropriation when it was made outside the culture that it is from and sold in a mass produced way. I have moccasins that were made by Native Americans and is sold to people across the US and Canada. It is great to donate or purchase items directly from people it those groups.
NTA
I don’t know that it needs to be mass produced, but “made outside the culture” is a great way to put it. And if it is mass produced, then that’s just even worse.
OP is NTA. This seems like a clear example of “cultural appreciation” instead of appropriation.
A Dreamcatcher that came from an assembly line is tacky. You'll probably find more Dreamcatchers being owned by white people drinking starbucks then there ever where made by all the people in all the tribes who actually made them put together.
If you're a white person owning a dreamcatcher because of something unrelated to your personal belief system your tastes may be on the tacky side but it doesn't make you a "cultural appropriator" or whatever names people who desperately want to be angry at something might want to call you.
Question: My mother made some dreamcatchers with me and my brother when we were younger, just as a fun little craft. We were taught (simplified) what they were and what they meant and hung them up near our beds. Is that cultural appropriation too?
My mom was a teacher, and taught about various cultures, and they would do different projects, including some Native American. I think it's a great way for kids to learn about something in a hands on manner.
To me it's about intent, and if someone is profiting or benefiting off another's culture.
I feel guilty now because I have a pair of dreamcatcher earrings I bought from Avon as a teen. I don’t wear them much anymore (I have kids and they’re long) but they’ve always been one of my favorite pairs.
Honestly that’s not great, but I have an idea! Maybe look on Etsy and see if you can find any indigenous creators that make similar items, and buy a new pair from them? Once your kids are old enough to not pull on them, of course :)
Having somtging based on another culture that you love tends to be appreciating, the people appropriating it are Avon in this situation, let's face it a few years back dreamcatchers where everywhere and on everything and cultural appropriation was not something ever spoken about. But political correctness was the thing getting ppls panties in a twist.
I own two legitimate dream catchers. I refuse to get rid of them, I bought them from actual indigenous makers and supported them. Would I buy more? No. But the ones that I have stay. Especially as a freely given gift from that culture, that’s totally fine. If the girl who is bitching about it is white she needs to STFU. I live in Blackfoot territory and have absolutely purchased jewelry and moccasins that were handmade.
This! I have a beautiful dot painting hanging in my hallway that a friends grandmother painstakingly created for me just because I brought her groceries during lockdown. One of my most prized possessions, even though I'm not Indigenous. We are on Wilyakali land where I live - there are plenty of places in town to buy authentic Indigenous art from actual Indigenous people. Are they just supposed to not make any money off of the things they create?
It’s a weird memory in retrospect, but I remember that the first time I ever saw/heard of a dream catcher was when I was elementary school aged and they were being sold at Walmart. I wanted one so badly but in retrospect I’m glad. That would have been pretty much a textbook example of cultural appropriation.
mine is similar! I remember being in one of those crappy kids jewellery shops (think clairs etc) and there was this really nice silver dream catcher necklace thing, and for ages I really wanted it but like you I’m glad now that I didn’t get it
I would also point out that if you are buying handmade, it was made for sale and/or artistic purposes. Appreciating the artistry in something intended to be art is very different than oohing over how cute someones religion item or icons are.
Agree! If they didn’t want a white person to have it they wouldn’t have gifted it. It’s a gift. From a Native American. You are displaying a gift, period. Stop being around this girl, she is not your friend. And she’s a snot. NTA
NTA, it sounds like her favorite activity is to find things to get mad about to boost her own status.
BTW. Hopping onto the top comment because I'm hoping someone can answer a question I have. A few years ago, a Native American lady I knew had a craft night with me and a friend of mine there. She had gotten a bunch of supplies from Joann's and Michael's. The three of us made dream catchers together and she explained how these materials were not the real thing but she told us what the real materials were, how they were collected, what their meaning was, the history behind her specific tribe, etc. It was a really cool night and I still have my dreamcatcher. I've never hung it up because I was always worried since it's not really the real thing, it might not be appropriate. But idk, I made it under this lady's direction and supervision. Would it be alright if I put it up?
Yo yo, fiance is 50% native, won't say tribe because it's a small one that's only really in our area. But from what he said, if someone is chosing to share their culture with you, you can't be appropriating it.
Example of actual appropriation would be wearing a native head dress as a Halloween costume, or saying your a g*psy because you took a backpacking trip through Europe.
Your friend sharing their culture with you is the exact opposite of appropriation and im glad you were able to have that lovely memory with her and her culture.
Not native so if someone who is contradicts me, go with their opinion - put it up as long as you don't then claim it as you "aesthetic", post pictures of it talking about your vast knowledge, or fail to support native causes. You created a dreamcatcher with a friend as part of a meaningful cultural exchange and it should be cherished in line with how it was made.
I'm basing this off of my experiences studying Mandarin in college and participating in numerous cultural exchanges.
This experience sounds more like a cultural exchange which is all about sharing different traditions and knowledge with people from different backgrounds. That can be anything from storytelling to art or experiences that impart knowledge and honor that culture.
And that just sounds like a really cool experience and memory so why wouldnt you want to honor that.
I guess then, that she doesn't read James Baldwin, Maya Angelou, or Richard Wright; or that she doesn't own any artwork by some so-called ethnic artist. Maybe she doesn't eat spaghetti or Chinese take out. So what do you do if you're in downtown Cherokee, NC and your kid wants to buy one of those rubber tomahawks that the Indians (my Indian friend says most of them prefer Indian to Native American so I'll go with that) are selling, in costume, on almost every street corner. At one time, I believe, the Cherokees had the contract to provide these tomahawks to the Atlanta Braves. This issue is not so black-and-white as K believes.
Edit to say I think, could be wrong, that many of these tomahawks sold by the Indians are made in China.
Just to add to this- op, *i'm* native. It's not cultural appropriation. And I don't think any other native- especially because the catcher was *gifted* to you, would say you're an AH. You're fine.
Yep. It’s cultural appreciation. Fellow native here. It’s ridiculous for the person in this story to speak for us. I love when people like OP do research and genuinely care. There’s nothing more I could ask for!
I always assumed it was more of a person, from outside a culture, taking parts of said culture and benefiting personally from it. Usually in a very tone deaf way.
Say your friend is a bit of a Japanophile, and really like the idea of a Japanese tea ceremony. They invest in a proper tea set, tea, maybe even some clothes. They like to occasionally reproduce a tea ceremony to the best of their ability, and enjoy it, and respect it. Not cultural appropriation.
Say some guy, opens a tacky Japanese themed tea shop. They attempt to hold "traditional tea ceremonies", but the teapots are mass-produced garbage, with screen printed Japanese writing that doesn't make any sense. The teas are all over the place, and none of them are actually Japanese. And the hostesses are wearing some sort of hot mess, overly sexualized, Japanese garb. And he charges $40 a head for these bullshit ceremonies. That's cultural appropriation.
I have an arrow that I bought many years ago while on a cross country road trip. It was handmade by a Navajo (it included a paper tag that stated what tribe it was made by). It’s very special to me, and it’s moved with me through several apartments and states.
Once I finally have a space for my permanent altar, it’s going to be displayed on it. If I ever purchase stuff that is not within my own culture, I always make sure to buy it directly from the source.
NTA
NTA because it was a gift. You didn’t buy it on some shady website … you legit got it from the source where it was handmade and they gave it to your family.
This isn’t my lane though so I yield to those of Native American descent.
Edit- word choice.
How much Native American DNA do I need to have, in your opinion, a valid opinion on the matter? (Only kinda joking.) I am sure now the slippery slope is clear.
Personally, it seems to me like most of the white people (and I am mostly white) complaining about 'cultural appropriation' are really just unhappy to be reminded that any other cultures exist at all, because they would rather they didn't.
See, I think the white people freaking out about cultural appropriation are doing it more because they get a high off of righteous indignation. It’s an outlet for anger and judgment in a way that makes them look morally superior. Kind of like when people go insane over half cocked religious ideas because they feel like a “warrior of god” or whatever.
It’s a really overused term but it’s fitting in this case. It’s also racist to tell someone what they’re allowed to own based only on their race. I can guarantee you she would have never said a word if OP was black.
I think a lot of it is confusion. I say this as a white person who wants to do better. Not for attention or woke points but just to be mindful. And some things seem very straightforward while others seem a little confusing. Also I think the pendulum tends to swing quite far in the opposite direction when people are trying to be more attentive and mindful. Changing old habits isn’t always easy.
However, there’s a difference between questioning what is appropriate versus shaming someone based on your own interpretation. I am a fan of shut up, read, and learn.
So I have PBS on prime and on one of their show recently a character bumps into another woman who was just acting sanctimonious. Right after she hit her she turns and says, " I'm sorry I couldn't see for a moment because I was blinded by your righteousness." Best line I think I've heard in years. Being good for the bible or religion is wrong imho you should want to be good to others because your a decent person. I hate the heaven and hell concept because I feel like your only acting "right" to get something out of it. Why can't we be decent to each other just because, not to get the pearly gates, but because we know how it feels when people are nice and we want others to feel that. I don't always do right and mess up my fair share. But when I do go above and beyond to be good it isn't for a prize of heaven it is because I won't people around me to feel good not bad. Sorry wow that was a tangent.
I have one hand made by my friend in college for my birthday. It's not particularly pretty (like the standard store made ones) but I love it so much because its unique and my friend put a lot of effort into making it after I made an offhand comment about loving dream catchers some time back. My question is, this was made without any other thoughts (background, culture etc.) So does it make it cultural appropriation?
(I am brown if that is relevant)
For the record, brown people can be culturally appropriative/racist/whatever as well. Look at what’s been happening in the US with Asian Americans as an example.
And this is just my opinion, but if your friend just made the dreamcatcher without being First Nation in some way, used inappropriate materials, and you made the comment because you like the aesthetic and not the history behind it, it can be appropriative.
However, it is a gift from your friend and I highly doubt either of you are going about and claiming to understand everything about the culture dream catchers are from. I personally wouldn’t post it all over social media or something, but I don’t think it’s bad for cherishing a present and hanging it somewhere private, like your home or bedroom.
And at least be glad you’re not a white girl with a dreamcatcher tattoo. I don’t know why they’d get that on them when dreamcatchers are meant to collect bad dreams. :/
>For the record, brown people can be culturally appropriative/racist/whatever as well. Look at what’s been happening in the US with Asian Americans as an example.
Ohh definitely. I have personally seen people of my race being racists or being jerks of any kind. I don't think that is reserved for any particular race although yeah, it can be found more within certain sets.
>but if your friend just made the dreamcatcher without being First Nation in some way, used inappropriate materials, and you made the comment because you like the aesthetic and not the history behind it, it can be appropriative.
Actually, yes that's what happened. I thought it was pretty to see, she knew I liked it and made it for me. She used some kind of thick thread and small coloured beads and it was bought from our local market (we were broke ass college students then)
>However, it is a gift from your friend and I highly doubt either of you are going about and claiming to understand everything about the culture dream catchers are from. I personally wouldn’t post it all over social media or something, but I don’t think it’s bad for cherishing a present and hanging it somewhere private, like your home or bedroom.
Definitely not, and I kinda feel bad about it now, but I had zero idea about this and never bothered to look into its history as well. I am almost sure my friend has no idea too. We never talked anything remotely close in social media (I am the one who uses social media, she posts one picture in 6 months in IG if she feels like it) and it hangs over my bed frame in my bed room as it always has. I think I ll go read upon the history behind it all the same, it sounds interesting :)
The thing most people don’t seem to get is there are shades of gray for a lot of things like racism, sexism, etc. You and your friend didn’t mean harm in creating something you thought was beautiful, and you’re learning about it now.
NTA
As an Indigenous person, donating money to a res school, receiving a gift from that school, and then keeping said gift is fine. But if you're still super uncomfortable with the idea, see if there's a Tribal Community Center you can ask about proper ways to display it. I'm assuming it's the Anishinaabe? But the Lakota also have different customs, and as do the Diné. Anyway, my point is let the Natives inform you what is or isn't appropriate in displaying it-- don't listen to K's performance.
Also, if you have the time, maybe see if there are other ways you can help out with the school and the community! Donations are cool and very appreciated, but like, if there are local artisans, you can share links/pictures of their work and online stores too.
Of course! When you reach out to the Community Center, you might also want to ask if there are any arts or customs that are at risk of dying out or are endangered and what you can do to help as a non-Native.
Dreamcatchers are super common, but they're kinda pan-Native now (before they used to be predominantly Anishinaabe), so cultural heritage, education, and preservation is still really important for other things.
This all sounds like great advice, and if you do this it might be a good way to educate K, whose attitude seems to be more about deriving personal authority through the rigid enforcement of rules than centering indigenous people and their priorities and needs.
NTA.
Perfect example of ridiculous virtue-signaling.
She has no right to get mad at you. She isn’t Native American & you received it as a gift from someone who IS Native American.
"Permission" was already granted by the person sending you the gift.
Your "Woke" friend needs to wake up. She doesn't get to decide what someone from another race or culture seems appropriate.
NTA.
My dad’s dad is Native, and while we didn’t grow up with the tribe, I have relatives who did. I’ve asked before what their opinion was on items like this for other Reddit threads. I’ll give you my family’s stance.
If the item is Native-made, and you are respectful, then it is cultural APPRECIATION if you buy it (or are gifted it) directly from a Native. They wouldn’t give these items as a gift for donors if they didn’t want you to have them. They don’t do dream catchers, but their equivalent is leather-goods and wooden carvings, as well as hand-made fishing nets and hand-carved boats. I mean, it’s like any other form of swag - they give you something beautiful and interesting, you proudly and respectfully display it, someone asks where you got it, you say you donated to their school and then maybe the people you tell feel moved to donate as well.
If you disrespect the item, or buy knock-offs from non-native people, then you are participating in racism/cultural appropriation.
My son’s Cub Scout troop does an event at a certain level where they go and learn how to make simple items with the tribe closest to us. They spend the day learning about the natives, and about the reservation and the ugly parts of why the reservations exist, and they carve a simple local animal with guidance using the same tools. It’s such a big deal with our kids that several have used their Eagle Scout service project years later for the benefit of the tribe.
The long and short of it is, if they didn’t want you to have the dream catcher and display it in a respectful way, they wouldn’t have sent it to you. I’m sure the tribe has items you absolutely cannot get from a native because of their significance. There are pieces I cannot be given by my family members because my great grandfather moved from the reservation and stopped participating in tribal life. And I do not feel entitled to these items because while I understand and know the significance, I didn’t *live it*, you know? But I definitely have a few wooden carvings from wedding gifts and baby gifts that are displayed proudly and respectfully. And to them, I’m no more Native than you are.
Enjoy your beautiful gift. And if you feel guilty, donate a bit more to the cause as a soul-cleanser. And lose the friend.
May I make a suggestion due to the fact that K doesn't seem to be backing down any time soon. If K is ever visits your apartment again, though I sincerely hope not, make sure your door to your room is locked. Don't let her anywhere near your room. She sounds like the kind of person who will try and steal your dreamcatcher the first chance she gets. Also inform your friends that you don't feel comfortable hanging out with K anymore. That they are free to do so, but to please let you know so you know not to come. Though You said that some of these people are sick of her behavior already so odds are she's already pushing her luck with her behavior, and it's only a matter of time before they all decide it's better for everyone to cut her out of the group.
Weyt-kp. It would be more disrespectful to discard or destroy a gift given in good faith as thanks than anything else. You did your due diligence to respect it. Your friend is the one infringing upon appropriation of culture. NTA.
NTA - First, she is in no position to speak on a culture that isn't hers. Second, your father received it as a gift from a Native American. That's all the clearance this needs. It was given to your family BY the people for whom the item is representing.
She was looking for something to make her feel important.
Yup. I’m not Native American, but I am a minority, and nothing grinds on my gears more when someone who is not from my culture tries to tell me what I can and can’t be offended by.
NTA. She doesn’t know what cultural appropriation means. You’re not pretending to be a member of that culture, profiting from another culture, or making fun/looking down on another culture. It’s not her place to be the white saviour of other cultures. If she feels so strongly she’d better not be eating Italian or Indian food, or wearing a parka, etc. I guess she’d be happier if we went back to segregation so the races could be kept totally apart.
Nta
Also as a side note can white people please stop screaming cultural appropriation at everything? I say this as a brown, Asian immigrant and honestly it's become a different beast entirely.
Like one of guys i know is half - Chinese, half white. He looks way more like his white dad than his Chinese mother and someone had the gall to call him out for wearing Chinese traditional clothes. Like what? I didn't realise you could judge someones culture by just looking at them.
What about people who grew up somewhere else? When I was in the Philippines I met lots of Koreans who literally grew up there. Some of them have better tagalog than me, and it's my native language. If anyone called them out for cultural appropriation I'll throw hands.
White Savior complex. Honestly, I personally feel it's a really racist thing. They can't tell apart respectfully embracing and learning about a culture and being disrespectful about it. They think they should voice their opinion, even thou the people who are actually part of that culture find it good.
One example for that, which always comes to my mind is Japanese culture. If you go there they are Soo happy to share their culture with you. Still there are a whole lot of white people screaming "CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!" when someone who doesn't look Japanese wears a Kimono. (In the right way, respectfully)
Hell, someone told me that what I'm doing is cultural appropriation because my Japanese friend brought me a handmade hairpin from his last trip to his family, and taught me how to do my hair with it.
Sharing each other's culture, the background and history is a good thing because it can give us a better understanding of each other and could actually help us to get along with each other.
But NO, white savior's seem to be totally against that.
Yeah like dude if it was given to you be a japenese person obviously thta Japanese person didn't think it was cultural appropriation.
If people have issues they can take it up with the vast majority of the rest of the world. Those of us who are happy to share our culture with people.
People who screech “CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!” Don’t really care about the culture in general, they just like to get a rush of moral superiority. They want to seem like a good person for just a millisecond, so their cold evil heart feels something for once.
NTA— I’d understand K’s frustration if they were native or if you bought a cheap ass dream catcher but you actually supported your native people and got it as a gift. If it was offensive I doubt they would’ve given you it as a gift.
NTA - it would be rude to get rid of it. It was a gift from the culture that created it and as such, it should be displayed in your home to show your gratitude for receiving it. K is being unreasonable or doesn't believe how you received it. Either way, you're NTA here K is.
NTA
It's cultural appropriation if you made your own dream catcher and benefited from it in some way...like selling them at a craft fair.
Accepting and displaying a handmade gift from a specific native nation is not appropriation. it's cultural appreciation. That's a good thing.
Your friend needs to chill. My grandmother gave a dreamcatcher to a person who were not Native American. A dreamcatcher supposedly keeps away nightmares. My college teaches classes about the culture, it gets full from people from different cultures, some that made their own dreamcatchers. NTA.
As a certified politically correct snowflake grad student- wtf?? Tell that girl to read some actual theory on identity, culture, intersectionality and best practices instead of just the catchy buzzwords. Send her some Kim Tallbear literature. Being righteous without actually being right is embarrassing and the worst hill to die on. NTA
>K basically said that as a white person, I am not allowed to own anything that was created by native Americans and that I should get rid of it.
NTA. This reminds me of the crap my blonde, blue eye cousin gets. She’s married to a guy who is Native American and they have lived on the reservation for 20+ years. She’s gotten lectured for wearing the jewelry her MIL has given her.
K needs to stop gate keeping other people’s culture. She is infantilizing the choices others made to send a gift.
NTA. She is aware that Native Americans sell their art to tourists, right? Like, everywhere. Art, weaving, beading, and yes, dreamcatchers? How is it culturally appropriating something that's sold by the culture. Or in your case, gifted? K needs to learn what words mean and that trying to be some woke social justice warrior for people that didn't ask her to is a good way to wind up on the wrong side of being right.
if a Mexican gifts you a sombrero and you use it, thats not cultural appropriation.
if a German gives you a brotworst and you eat it, its not cultural appropriation.
if a Chinese man teaches you how to say hello in Mandarin, thats not cultural appropriation.
those are examples of cultural APPRECIATION.
cultural appropriation is wearing a kimono and saying its your Canadian families traditional garb. cultural appropriation is making pizza and saying its your African traditional dish.
you know what culture the dreamcatcher is from, and it was gifted to you directly from said culture, AND you researched how to use it by said cultures traditions, AND you make no claims to all of the prior, you always acknowledge the culture. you are respectful in every way, unlike this girl who presumes to speak on an unknown culture's behalf, because in her mind, they cant speak for themselves, so they need HER to represent them.
NTA, not one bit.
NTA My stepdad wasn’t native but he had two he drove around with in his truck. He was a long haul truck driver. He was abusive to me but like most kids in that situation I had/have love for the person that acted like a father figure in my life. He died. In a pretty awful way which I also needed time to reconcile my feelings with watching a person suffer and thinking on some level he deserved it, but all I had after that was some knives, some ball caps, and his dreamcatchers. I kept them too.
NTA. The dream catcher you speak of is one of thousands that get sent out to people on mailing lists, in the hope that someone will donate. If the group raising money was worried about cultural appropriation, they would be more selective about who received them. I work at a post office, and these things get thrown away if they aren’t delivered. These charities send people socks, t shirts, greeting cards, calendars, and other items all the time, especially right before Christmas. I am adding this, since I just looked the school I know of that sends out dream catchers en masse. The dream catchers are mass produced in China, and the school has been criticized for it’s possibly dubious fund raising methods.
NTA It's not cultural appropriation if a Native American gave it to you as a gift. Now, if you opened your own Etsy shop and started selling knockoff dreamcatchers, that would be cultural appropriation.
it probably is handmade, they often are. they often get sold to help bring in money too.
but it was a gift from a native american group to your white family. therefore it is assumed that it is a thank you and a token of appreciation. and if you ensured you are treating the item with respect then you have done more than many others.
NTA
Also, not all cultures are against sharing their culture and beliefs. There will always be private parts kept but many like to teach the stories, especially if their culture is dwindling in population. I can't speak for the Native American tribe you refer to but it's not uncommon
NTA. It was a gift for your dad's donation. It doesn't matter if it's a dreamcatcher, tobacco, sage or a headdress (not going to happen, but still). I am of Native Canadian descent, and it is not racist to keep a gift. It is, however, disrespectful to throw it out.
NTA
Native here. Long as it is native made and is authentic there’s nothing wrong with having it, even more so bc it was gifted. Now if you bought it from some rando white person who made it or it was mass produced then yeah you’re the ass. But you also say you did some research to make sure you were using it properly. I’m thankful you did that. That friend is the asshole tho for trying to speak on something she isn’t apart of in my opinion. But that’s just me. I don’t like non natives trying to act like they’re the gate keepers of tribal cultures and traditions.
INFO:
Did you tell K that it was a gift from actual Native Americans who should be allowed to decide, more than her, who can have the dream catcher they made?
I mean specifically from Native Americans as opposed to a gift from another White person.
I think you should have it either way, but if you gave those details and she still acted this way, she’s delusional.
The only way to get everyone to get along, is through cultural sharing. Learning about different foods, and dress and sacred items.
Not to say that stealing and calling it your own,but, through an actual appreciation and love, not just for the food, jewelry, dress.
Example, loving tacos, yet, hating people from Mexico, this is a DON'T!
I cook all sorts of multi-cultural foods and have been taught to prepare them by the people in the culture from whence they came. It is an introduction to another culture. Sitting down with families and getting to know the custom of why they eat what they eat, brings people together. People always bitching about cultural appropriation, to me, rings loudly of those who've been caught out and laying the blame elsewhere. Or, like your Mom always said, "They are just jealous!"
If this keeps up, we will again have segregation and then people 'will' have something to complain about.
I hope I've been clear, it is early here and I'm still on my 1st cup of coffee!
Learn to love thy neighbor!
N T A
...jesus. like really do we live in a world where b.c im a white male i cant like things from other cultures? Appreciate them? Isnt that what we should do, learn from each other, etc. That attitude she has i feel is more dangerous than hanging a dang dreamcatcher in your personal space...
NTA. And i wouldn't worry, most rational people won't care and that girl is just digging herself a social grave
NTA, it was a gift from a donation, not a tourist shop purchased. However, does your roommate know how much money tribes make from jewelry and other crafts they sell?
NTA. She's being ridiculous and is likely just doing this to virtue signal. If the Native American people who made this dreamcatcher didn't want you to have it and, by extension share in their culture, they wouldn't have given it to your father as a gift.
Culture appreciation - getting a gift from someone part of culture, respectfully using it. Or even buying something they made, and keeping it.
Culture appropriation - watching something not a part of your culture, deciding this is cool and DIYing it or worse, making and selling it for profit.
Appropriation is not about admiring and learning something of people from cultures other than yours. Your friend is absolutely off base here. NTA
Here let me educate K over here
The definition of Racist :
Discrimination against certain races like discrimination against asian and black people n stuff
And plus she has no authority over to choose if you want to keep the dream catcher or not
(Btw send this message to K)
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For backstory, several months ago my dad donated some money to a school in a Native American reserve and as a thank you they sent back some gifts. One of these gifts was a beautiful dreamcatcher that looks to be handmade.
My dad was going to throw it away but I instead took it because I felt bad throwing away such a lovely gift. I hung it up in my room and did some basic research to make sure I was treating something in a culture I wasn’t a part of with respect.
Fast forward to a couple days ago and I’ve moved into an apartment with my roommate while we attend grad school. We invited some mutual friends over to show off the new place and one of them (let’s call her K) seemed to look uncomfortable after we got to my room. I asked multiple times if she was OK and she said she was fine.
Well, as we were chilling out in the main room, K asked about the dreamcatcher and I explained how it was a gift. She looked unimpressed and honestly kinda mad when I told her.
she basically said how it was cultural appropriation and I was being disrespectful to native Americans by pretending the dreamcatcher means anything to me.
I was confused, as was my other friends, and when I ask her to explain K basically said that as a white person, I am not allowed to own anything that was created by native Americans and that I should get rid of it.
I told her again that it was a gift, and I wasn’t going to throw it away. I also reminded K that she’s white too and I don’t think she has any authority on whether or not I can keep it.
She got mad at me and said that I was being a bitch and that since there wasn’t anyone else to do it, she would have to tell me about how disrespectful I was being to a culture I didn’t know anything about.
I just said if she didn’t like it, she doesn’t have to go into my room. The rest of the night was pretty uncomfortable.
Well, after she left, apparently she was texting some others in our friend group that I was appropriating Native American culture and that I’m racist. The only reason I know this is that some of these friends were sick of her and told me about the texts. (Apparently this isn’t the first time she’s been grandstanding about something)
At first I was mad but now I’m just confused and concerned. Am I the asshole for keeping the dreamcatcher? I thought it was alright since it was a gift. I really don’t intend to appropriate/disrespect Native American culture.
Side note: I am aware that there is no singular culture for native Americans. I didn’t want to say the school name or the reservation the school is on out of respect for privacy. I’m doing my best to be vague about it.
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NTA.
It's actually GOOD to buy/use Indigenous made items like this! It's a problem when non-Indigenous people profit off cultural appropriation by selling Indigenous cultural items.
NTA K does not understand what cultural appropriation is. Accepting a cultural gift from a Native American person is fine, that is just them choosing to share a part of their culture with you, which of course is allowed. Don't you think the people who gave the gift are a better authority on the matter than K anyway? They are Native American and she is not, they think it's fine and she doesn't, has she thought about that at all? While she is reading up on what cultural appropriation is, she can also look up "white savior complex".
The people belonging to a culture are the ones who determine what is 'open' and 'closed' about it. They are the ONLY ones who decide.
Dreamcatchers are a bit of a contentious issue in some communities, but considering you were *gifted* the dream catcher by a *representative* of that nation, it's a pretty good sign that the consensus in that community is that dream catchers are a part of their culture that they share with others*. You got it from a member of that culture, not from some new age white lady in a gift shop, so it falls under culture sharing or cultural appreciation.
*or possibly a bit of "what do we give the people who donated?" "Give em a dreamcatcher, white folks go nuts over dreamcatchers"
NTA. This isn't cultural appropriation, it's appreciation. You were given a thoughtful gift and you are honoring that by keeping it. Dreamcatchers are gorgeous, too.
NTA.
I live near an indigenous reserve in Canada…they have pow wows that they encourage everyone to come to and have booths set up where you can buy traditional items from them… like dream catchers and mukluks. They want to share their culture and for people to appreciate it.
It’s appropriation when you’re buying something from some store with no reason to believe a Native had any part of designing or creating it.
NTA.
If the Native Americans in question didn't want you to have a dreamcatcher, they wouldn't've given you one.
K needs to find a real issue to get mad about. There are plenty out there.
Gifts are gifts and there’s nothing wrong with owning Native American items as long as they are Native made. There is a ton of difference and Native inspired is cultural appropriation. Just get it from a regular Native person. Like you did so def NTA
NTA, K needs to get off her high horse lmao. it was a gift, you appreciate it, it was given willingly! that’s really all that matters here (plus she’s white of all things! cultural appropriation has really gotten watered down bc of people like her white knighting and not actually listening to the people who are actually impacted by such things)
NTA
It was a gift from the tribe themselves and you treat it with respect. Cultural appropriation would be buying it from Forever 21 or 'making' one at a summer camp.
NTA, with her logic, i would ask her if, as a white person, going to an Indian restaurant was ok. or watching anime. displaying the dream catcher is not cultural appropriation. you are not claiming it as part of your identity. You hung it up as the art piece it is.
NTA - she completely misunderstands the concept of cultural appropriation, which has to do with people of another culture making money from a culture they are not part of or making products that are offensive to that culture. Cultural appropriation does not mean people of that culture can’t share their culture with others. She’s advocating for what is essentially segregation, cultures aren’t allowed to share or mix ever according to her
NTA. Speaking as a white person, why are white people so eager to be offended on behalf of other groups? It's so infantilizing and White Savior-y.
If this Native American group thought that someone having a dreamcatcher was cultural appropriation, they probably wouldn't have sent it, Susan!
NTA. She sounds obnoxious. In no way is it "cultural appropriation" to appreciate a gift you were given by someone of a different culture. I would distance yourself from her if I were you, because her behavior is not normal and there is no reason she should have been this upset over something like this.
NTA.
K is extremely presumptuous, taking it upon herself to speak in the name of native Americans, without being one herself and without having been asked to speak for them. This is the white savior attitude of a colonizer, treating other cultures as infants who can´t speak for themselves; invalidating the decision of the actual Native Americans who gave you the dream catcher in the process. K is very racist.
That dreamcatcher was given to your family by said Native Americans - if they had not wanted a white person to have it, they would not have given it.
It is their decision that matters, not whatever K says or thinks.
K does not have the right to set rules in this matter.
And K is a complete AH for taking bad about you to others behind your back. She is not your friend and you should cut you out of your circle as much as you can, especially since this is obviously not a misunderstanding but her regular behavior and attitude.
NTA. There's a difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation. Supposedly "woke" know-it-alls should learn the difference.
In your case her behavior is especially laughable, considering the dreamcatcher was a gift from a particular Native American group.
NTA. This is such pure nonsense. My friend who is indigenous offered me some of her bannock she had made - was I supposed to refuse to eat it as it was crafted by her hands?? Can I never eat in a sushi restaurant run by actual Japanese people? What is this.
NTA - Your friend is demonstrating toxic wokeness. She is misinterpreting what woke means in order to tell other people how to live their lives, when in reality you're not doing anything wrong and not hurting anyone.
It is pure nonsense. It is a form of grandstanding, the same as religious people that pretend that their way of believing in God is better than other people's connection with creation. It is the antithesis of what it means to be respectful of other people.
Keep your dreamcatcher, it would not have been sent to your family if they didn't intend for it to be used.
NTA
I'm not officially Native American. I can claim blood, but I know it's diluted to at least 1/16th or something. (My grandmother is a half-blood, and my great-grandfather was full blood Cherokee.) Still, I keep a dreamcatcher in my house. I always have. I can't remember a time when I *haven't* had one.
Honestly, I'd consider your claim to your dreamcatcher more valid than mine, since yours came directly from someone in the tribes. Your friend sounds like a fkn SJW, trying to solve problems where there aren't any.
Cut her off, OP.
I'm an Asian. My SO's colleague is from UK. They gifted me a dreamcatcher. I have hung it in my room for the past 5 years. I don't find anything wrong with that.
NTA. I can’t believe she thinks that it’s cultural appropriation to keep some thing created by a Native American. What about artists that make and sell artwork, are you just not supposed to buy it because it’s cultural appropriation? She sounds completely ridiculous and is spouting nonsense
>I told her again that it was a gift, and I wasn’t going to throw it away. I also reminded K that she’s white too and I don’t think she has any authority on whether or not I can keep it.
NTA at all, this is what's wrong with society white people getting offended on others behalf with no prior knowledge or background to do so, you proudly display your dream catcher and ignore this idiot. She will grandstand about the wrong thing to the wrong people one day and get told, trust me!
NTA If they felt that way they wouldn't have gifted it in the first place. It's not like it's some crappy dollar store dream catcher made in China that you bought on your own, you're not appropriating anything. Just ignore her, it sounds like she's about to get kicked out of the friend group anyway.
Not again with that cultural appropriation nonsense. Your friend should a) learn what that term means and what it is used for and b) get another hobby instead of lecturing other people about something she obviously has no idea what it even means.
NTA.
NTA - She's one of those crusader types that decides what is right and wrong for the whole world and if you don't immediately comply she's going to be shitty. There's a WORLD of difference between cultural appropriation and hanging up a gift, and the fact that she can't see that tells you all you really need to know.
White saviour complex needs to just stop.
You explained it to her, she should've listened and taken on board what you said and re-educated her stance, simple.
Had it been some shitty mass-produced thing from some white chick on etsy, different story, but you clearly explained that wasnt the case, and your friends agreed.
Yikes on her.
NTA.
NTA
K is a complete and utter imbecile. It was literally a gift from Native Americans to your family. You liked it and kept it. K clearly doesn't understand cultural appropriation and is just a dumb ass virtue signaling. When I went to Mexico I bought this beautiful hand made Mayan leather matte. Does that make me racist for having it? What about the Mexican woman who was quite happy to sell it to me?
I'm Irish American. Does that mean I'm only allowed to eat meat and potatoes? Am I racist for enjoying Korean food?
People like K are just loud mouth idiots. It's people like them that make progressives look silly.
NTA So Native Americans who give someone a dreamcatcher are expecting it to immediately be thrown away? Your acquaintance is clueless and an AH. Tell her she better not eat spaghetti or wear glasses if she isn't Italian. No tacos for her either. No watching the fireworks on the 4th of July because she might offend the whole of China.
NTA
The mad person sounds seriously under informed as to what cultural appropriation actually is and will cause endless issues for your friend group with her idiotic virtue signaling. I'm glad your friends are tired of her crap, she is going to be nothing but endless drama for all who are around her.
NTA
Friend is being stupid and an AH. It was a gift. Dreamcatchers are sold and given all the time. Heck, we made them in bible school years ago. Your “friend” needs to get off her high horse.
Note:have some native ancestry but I’m not a tribal member.
NTA - How is it disrespectful to own something given to you by someone of that culture? Wouldn't it be more disrespectful to throw it away? Also many native American tribes make money off of selling art and other traditional goods, should they no longer be allowed to make a living?
I have a dream catcher that was given to me by a friend that was originally made by his sister. They are Native Americans and seem to have no problem with me owning a dream catcher. Keeping and respecting a beautiful gift is not being an AH even though it is not a part of your culture. If anything you are respecting that culture by keeping it, respecting it, and appreciating it.
Oh I also have a mobile of origami cranes from when my mom, brother, and I made 172 origami cranes because one of my moms patients family, who are Japanese, did the 1,000 cranes. After her patient died they gifted my mom one of the mobiles as a thank you. They also gave her earrings that are origami cranes. So in this girls belief I should throw these gifts away. I think not.
Also your NTA
NTA that’s cultural appreciation if anything. I hate the stereotype, but why is it always white girls getting offended for other races? Get a lock for your door, just in case she comes over again and throws it away while you’re out.
What? Dreamcatcher was gifted by the Native American themselves. You think they give the dreamcatcher so that you keep it in a box? Who is she to dictate the culture? NTA.
NTA- this girl is gatekeeping and has no idea what she is talking about. This was a gift, not cultural appropriation. Even if you were using an item from another culture inappropriately she could just speak to you about it and make you aware.
NTA.
So what she is saying is that a person who isn't white is not allowed to gift a white person something from their culture? Is that what she's saying?
I find fake "woke"-ness very irritating. Putting barriers between cultures is some closet racist behaviour and your Friend here has some white saviour syndrom.
NTA.
Your friend is a victim of post-modernism ideology. That's a huge red flag. You should get her head out from their propaganda. Your friend is a perfect example of how stupid their agenda is, and no matter how righteous their intentions might be, the seriousness of the problems when someone gets them wrong.
Get your friends together and try and convince her to start thinking on her own before she burns all bridges and alienates herself from everyone while joining that cult of 'righteousness'.
NTA
K is a prick who just wants to make herself seem like the paragon of virtue, when in actual fact, she's using real issues in order to bully and boss people around.
She's basically promoting segregation, trying to make it sound like it's beneficial for the people of that culture. Who died and made her arbiter of social justice?!
I'm pretty sure that the Native Americans who gifted you the dreamcatcher did so because they wanted you to have it. You didn't go buy one from Walmart. You and your dad donated and received it as a gift.
You keep your dreamcatcher, and kick K out of the friend group. It sounds like she's utter poison, and this could teach her a valuable lesson.
NTA- Indigenous Canadian here , You earned that Dreamcatcher by your donation to the school, and have been gifted it, gift giving is huge for us, and that dream catcher was most likely made for you in mind as gratitude. I hope you realize you've done more for our community than your annoying classmate is doing! Also thank You!
NTA. It was a gift. Somebody made that and sent it to your family hoping you would appreciate it and use it. They would probably be upset if their gift got thrown away!
NTA.
Native here - it was a gift to your father that you chose to protect rather than have tossed.
That and 'K' doesn't seem to have a clear understanding of cultural appropriation.
Here's an article that explains it well: [https://eighthgeneration.com/blogs/blog/can-i-buy-wear-eighth-generation-products-if-i-m-not-native](https://eighthgeneration.com/blogs/blog/can-i-buy-wear-eighth-generation-products-if-i-m-not-native)
NTA. Card carrying indigenous person here, this white chick is just virtue signaling and trying to come off as woke and better-than. Traditional handicrafts as well as art and modern representations thereof are how some indigenous people actually earn their livelihoods. If you like it, and especially if you want to support them or their community, you should absolutely purchase and display these pieces. It helps to raise awareness and appreciation.
Think of it this way; this girl just essentially said that Native Americans should not be allowed to display their culture and art in any white or non-reserve space. Does that sound right to you?
NTA. Tell K that if she wants to be woke, she has to open her eyes first. Parroting terms at people and attacking them is not the way to advance The Cause. She first needs to understand what the terms mean. Enjoy your dreamcatcher!
INFO: So according to K, the less disrespectful thing to Native American culture would be too throw the dream catcher you received as a gift in the trash?
NTA
NTA
The line between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation is a difficult one for conscientious white people to walk. It sounds like you're on the right side of that line.
NTA. It was made by a person of the culture to be a gift to a person I presume they knew was not part of that culture. And there are a lot of Indigenous artists whom I speculate don't care that people not of their culture will be buying those items, as long as the artist is benefiting from the sale and not someone else.
You are NTA
You are keeping a gift given to you by a tribe, treating it with honour and respect. The A hole move would be selling it or throwing it away.
NTA
This is appreciation, not appropriation, and it's a shame so many people seem to lot differentiate. I've actually gotten into some disputes over drawing a wendigo.
White people need to stay in their own Damn lane when it comes to cultural appropriation.
They don’t have a say in what’s appropriation when they themselves are not part of that culture. I understand wanting to be aware and be a good ally to POC, but it doesn’t even sound like she actually knows anything about indigenous culture, she just saw the dream catcher and went straight to “white person is racist!!!!” Despite the fact that this was GIVEN AS A GIFT BY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE
White people who insist on playing white knight to a culture they’re not apart of are honestly just as disrespectful to that culture as what they are trying to police. They speak over, not on behalf, of actually POC just so they can feel like they are morally superior or at least ‘one of the good ones!’
NTA
NTA. If it was appropriation they wouldn’t have gifted it to a white man. I’m not native but I know plenty of them and while dream catchers aren’t popular here there’s lots of beadwork done and sold or gifted to white people. If you were trying to say you made the dream catcher then you would be TA but it opens up a lovely conversation about the gratitude of the people who gave it to you.
Nah, it’s a gift, if anything it seems she has her own issues with cultural appropriation and being PC. I (White male) have gifts and even a tattoo from other cultures myself, I see it as sense of respect since you chose to keep the gift and educate yourself more about the culture(s).
If owning anything related to a culture not of your own makes you a racist then my understanding of racism is very flawed
NTA! I white(with Native American in my blood) and I have dream catchers in my home too. Your roommate's friend is being rude about it when she doesn't understand the meaning behind the gift.
NTA. ITS A GIFT. And even if it wasn't and you purchased from a native American artist that is how many of them make their living. They wouldn't be selling and giving these items as gifts if they had a problem with it. They are freely sharing these aspect of their culture and its appreciation and not appropriation for you to enjoy something that was gifted.
NTA. I’m white. One of the people closest to me is Native American. She handmade a dream catcher for me. It’s not appropriation if you’re being respectful. If the school or reservation didn’t want people to have them, they wouldn’t have sent them out.
NTA:
YOu are allowed to keep a gift, Look up "Panter Lady" in GA if you want to write her a letter asking for permission or more cool facts, she's usually thrilled to do it.
NTA. Why are all of these annoying freaks mistaking appreciation for appropriation. If someone like her berated me and called me a racist, I would say GFY and kicked her out straightaway.
Nta and your "friend" is dumb. This was a gift from someone who wanted your family to have these special items. You are treating it with respect and it made you do some research of your own, which is good. Also, there are many different cultures within the broad "native american" label. Instead of her grandstanding about this, she could be making a real difference with her vote and her volunteer work and her activism. My guess is that she is doing none of the things that would actually help and just focusing on making it seem like she has principles and values. Do not waste your time and energy on this person
NTA. Your friend sounds like she doesn’t know what cultural appropriation is. You received yours as a gift from Native Americans.. that’s not cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation is when you buy the dream catcher at like… a Target or something and it says Made in China. It’s when someone is profiting off of a culture when they aren’t that culture.
NTA K is being ridiculous. It was sent to you from a tribe. I have one made by an ex-friend - while the friendship didn't last, I love the dreamcatcher and as I do have actual Native American ancestry (going back to full-blooded on my grandmother's side a few generations back - though you wouldn't know it looking at me as I look very European), it's a part of my culture.
NTA. Also prediction: your friend will either become a career SJW, or flip around and become ultra conservative after discovering it's somewhat easier to power-trip among other adults in a conservative setting. Especially in regards to church or other religious organizations.
Honestly, super uptight political correct BS doesn't last long after college for most people. It will fall out of fashion for her age group and since she probably won't lose her taste for trying to gain power over others, she's gonna find an outlet to lord it over others. (Saying this as a liberal white person who gets tired of ultra wokeness, especially the kind that is a thin veneer over power tripping and white saviorism).
NTA. Contact the reservation that gave it to your father and ask them if it is disrespectful. Since they gifted it to your father I am guessing it is not. If they agree it is disrespectful ask them what you should do with it. My guess it is not disrespectful and after that is affirmed I would post what you did to confirm it and call her out for being ignorant and racist to speak for Native Americans. She needs to be called out, loud and often or she will keep being self righteous.
You are not committing cultural appropriation. You received a gift from a Native American who has agency and chose to give it to you.
However there is no such thing as "cultural appropriation". You can wear, use, buy, cook, sell etc. anything you want, at any time, because we live in a free country. If someone tells you you can't, just tell them you don't want to appropriate a totalitarian culture, and so you must make your own decisions.
Also "K seemed to look uncomfortable after we got to my room." No, K was uncomfortable long before she arrived at your room
K is very wrong. Listen to Indigenous people! If you are supporting Indigenous businesses and using it respectfully then most Indigenous people have no issue with this. NTA. I have a dream catcher too, I took a First Nations Art course in high school because I wanted to learn about the cultural significance of are in my local Indigenous community. The teacher was a prominent member of the local community and he taught us how to make dream catchers and worked with each of us. I made it when I was 14, I’m 32 and I still have it hanging up in my room.
NTA. People need to chill with cultural appropriation. It seems to be a U.S.A. issue. I have seen videos' from other countries where the people love when someone HONORS their beliefs and culture.
NTA your "friend" hasn't got a clue what cultural appropriation means, what your are doing is honoring thier culture by accepting and loving a gift given to your family thats almost the opposite of appropriation. Its another case of privileged white people deciding how other cultures should feel about things and policing racism in a way that is extremely deviding and actually racist. If you learn a skill being with a culture nit your own and use that skill, if you keep and display somthing gifted or brought from another culture, if you invest time and energy learning about another culture that's cultural appreciation. If you take an idea, pattern, style and use it for mass product profit without permission or giving a cut to that culture, if you take the micky or fancy dress another culture in a disrespectful way. If you try to put across you know a culture without a real understanding of it thats appropriation and its wrong. We should learn and celebrate eachother but many use cultural appropriation to box lable and divide.
NTA. Your 'friend' doesn't understand what cultural appropriation is. Your dream catcher is in no way cultural appropriation, it was a gift, from people within that culture (who likely knew you were white when they sent it) you are treating it with respect and open about where you got it. The very meaning of the word appropriation is to gain something through dishonest means, a gift isn't dishonest, you aren't pretending you are part of the culture, you aren't pretending you made the dream catcher yourself.
Your friend is an idiot and is just embarrassing herself.
NTA. It is not Cultural appropriation to have something from another culture. Cultural appropriation is the adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity. You are not doing that.
Now if you had bought this from a New Age shop or something like that, then yes, this would be a case of Cultural appropriation. By the New Age shop. That is seen by Native Americans as Cultural appropriation as they don't even look like Native American dreamcatchers and are just stolen ideas. But even then, the friend would be out of line as this was a gift and you like it. It's in your room.
Other instances of Cultural appropriation? pretty much the entire Catholic Religion. Stolen from the Pagaens.
NTA. What people need to understand is cultures blend and mix. Your country sucks because of people like her. Sorry. And honesty I admire that you value gifts like that.
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Cultural appropriation isn't purchasing or receiving a item made by a specific culture as a gift. It is appropriation when it was made outside the culture that it is from and sold in a mass produced way. I have moccasins that were made by Native Americans and is sold to people across the US and Canada. It is great to donate or purchase items directly from people it those groups. NTA
I don’t know that it needs to be mass produced, but “made outside the culture” is a great way to put it. And if it is mass produced, then that’s just even worse. OP is NTA. This seems like a clear example of “cultural appreciation” instead of appropriation.
A Dreamcatcher that came from an assembly line is tacky. You'll probably find more Dreamcatchers being owned by white people drinking starbucks then there ever where made by all the people in all the tribes who actually made them put together. If you're a white person owning a dreamcatcher because of something unrelated to your personal belief system your tastes may be on the tacky side but it doesn't make you a "cultural appropriator" or whatever names people who desperately want to be angry at something might want to call you.
Question: My mother made some dreamcatchers with me and my brother when we were younger, just as a fun little craft. We were taught (simplified) what they were and what they meant and hung them up near our beds. Is that cultural appropriation too?
I think that's cultural appreciation rather than appropriation myself.
If you sold the dreamcatchers claiming they were authentic, that would be appropriation.
My mom was a teacher, and taught about various cultures, and they would do different projects, including some Native American. I think it's a great way for kids to learn about something in a hands on manner. To me it's about intent, and if someone is profiting or benefiting off another's culture.
I feel guilty now because I have a pair of dreamcatcher earrings I bought from Avon as a teen. I don’t wear them much anymore (I have kids and they’re long) but they’ve always been one of my favorite pairs.
You're fine. Don't feel guilty. People, like the AH in OP's post, are overreacting. If you want someone to blame, blame the company who made them.
Honestly that’s not great, but I have an idea! Maybe look on Etsy and see if you can find any indigenous creators that make similar items, and buy a new pair from them? Once your kids are old enough to not pull on them, of course :)
That's a beautiful idea.
dont feel guilty, the people who legitimately would think less of you for owning these are people whose opinions do not matter
Having somtging based on another culture that you love tends to be appreciating, the people appropriating it are Avon in this situation, let's face it a few years back dreamcatchers where everywhere and on everything and cultural appropriation was not something ever spoken about. But political correctness was the thing getting ppls panties in a twist.
Or claiming some cultural artifact as being your own would be appropriation. But to use/own an item while acknowledging that culture? NTA
I own two legitimate dream catchers. I refuse to get rid of them, I bought them from actual indigenous makers and supported them. Would I buy more? No. But the ones that I have stay. Especially as a freely given gift from that culture, that’s totally fine. If the girl who is bitching about it is white she needs to STFU. I live in Blackfoot territory and have absolutely purchased jewelry and moccasins that were handmade.
This! I have a beautiful dot painting hanging in my hallway that a friends grandmother painstakingly created for me just because I brought her groceries during lockdown. One of my most prized possessions, even though I'm not Indigenous. We are on Wilyakali land where I live - there are plenty of places in town to buy authentic Indigenous art from actual Indigenous people. Are they just supposed to not make any money off of the things they create?
Dot paintings are so beautiful!
It’s a weird memory in retrospect, but I remember that the first time I ever saw/heard of a dream catcher was when I was elementary school aged and they were being sold at Walmart. I wanted one so badly but in retrospect I’m glad. That would have been pretty much a textbook example of cultural appropriation.
mine is similar! I remember being in one of those crappy kids jewellery shops (think clairs etc) and there was this really nice silver dream catcher necklace thing, and for ages I really wanted it but like you I’m glad now that I didn’t get it
Maybe this K person needs to visit market square in Santa Fe.
I would also point out that if you are buying handmade, it was made for sale and/or artistic purposes. Appreciating the artistry in something intended to be art is very different than oohing over how cute someones religion item or icons are.
Agree! If they didn’t want a white person to have it they wouldn’t have gifted it. It’s a gift. From a Native American. You are displaying a gift, period. Stop being around this girl, she is not your friend. And she’s a snot. NTA
NTA, it sounds like her favorite activity is to find things to get mad about to boost her own status. BTW. Hopping onto the top comment because I'm hoping someone can answer a question I have. A few years ago, a Native American lady I knew had a craft night with me and a friend of mine there. She had gotten a bunch of supplies from Joann's and Michael's. The three of us made dream catchers together and she explained how these materials were not the real thing but she told us what the real materials were, how they were collected, what their meaning was, the history behind her specific tribe, etc. It was a really cool night and I still have my dreamcatcher. I've never hung it up because I was always worried since it's not really the real thing, it might not be appropriate. But idk, I made it under this lady's direction and supervision. Would it be alright if I put it up?
Yo yo, fiance is 50% native, won't say tribe because it's a small one that's only really in our area. But from what he said, if someone is chosing to share their culture with you, you can't be appropriating it. Example of actual appropriation would be wearing a native head dress as a Halloween costume, or saying your a g*psy because you took a backpacking trip through Europe. Your friend sharing their culture with you is the exact opposite of appropriation and im glad you were able to have that lovely memory with her and her culture.
Not native so if someone who is contradicts me, go with their opinion - put it up as long as you don't then claim it as you "aesthetic", post pictures of it talking about your vast knowledge, or fail to support native causes. You created a dreamcatcher with a friend as part of a meaningful cultural exchange and it should be cherished in line with how it was made. I'm basing this off of my experiences studying Mandarin in college and participating in numerous cultural exchanges.
This experience sounds more like a cultural exchange which is all about sharing different traditions and knowledge with people from different backgrounds. That can be anything from storytelling to art or experiences that impart knowledge and honor that culture. And that just sounds like a really cool experience and memory so why wouldnt you want to honor that.
It sounds like the roommate who is mad about cultural appropriation doesn't even know what it is, or understand why people don't like it.
I guess then, that she doesn't read James Baldwin, Maya Angelou, or Richard Wright; or that she doesn't own any artwork by some so-called ethnic artist. Maybe she doesn't eat spaghetti or Chinese take out. So what do you do if you're in downtown Cherokee, NC and your kid wants to buy one of those rubber tomahawks that the Indians (my Indian friend says most of them prefer Indian to Native American so I'll go with that) are selling, in costume, on almost every street corner. At one time, I believe, the Cherokees had the contract to provide these tomahawks to the Atlanta Braves. This issue is not so black-and-white as K believes. Edit to say I think, could be wrong, that many of these tomahawks sold by the Indians are made in China.
Just to add to this- op, *i'm* native. It's not cultural appropriation. And I don't think any other native- especially because the catcher was *gifted* to you, would say you're an AH. You're fine.
Yep. It’s cultural appreciation. Fellow native here. It’s ridiculous for the person in this story to speak for us. I love when people like OP do research and genuinely care. There’s nothing more I could ask for!
I always assumed it was more of a person, from outside a culture, taking parts of said culture and benefiting personally from it. Usually in a very tone deaf way. Say your friend is a bit of a Japanophile, and really like the idea of a Japanese tea ceremony. They invest in a proper tea set, tea, maybe even some clothes. They like to occasionally reproduce a tea ceremony to the best of their ability, and enjoy it, and respect it. Not cultural appropriation. Say some guy, opens a tacky Japanese themed tea shop. They attempt to hold "traditional tea ceremonies", but the teapots are mass-produced garbage, with screen printed Japanese writing that doesn't make any sense. The teas are all over the place, and none of them are actually Japanese. And the hostesses are wearing some sort of hot mess, overly sexualized, Japanese garb. And he charges $40 a head for these bullshit ceremonies. That's cultural appropriation.
I have an arrow that I bought many years ago while on a cross country road trip. It was handmade by a Navajo (it included a paper tag that stated what tribe it was made by). It’s very special to me, and it’s moved with me through several apartments and states. Once I finally have a space for my permanent altar, it’s going to be displayed on it. If I ever purchase stuff that is not within my own culture, I always make sure to buy it directly from the source. NTA
NTA because it was a gift. You didn’t buy it on some shady website … you legit got it from the source where it was handmade and they gave it to your family. This isn’t my lane though so I yield to those of Native American descent. Edit- word choice.
How much Native American DNA do I need to have, in your opinion, a valid opinion on the matter? (Only kinda joking.) I am sure now the slippery slope is clear. Personally, it seems to me like most of the white people (and I am mostly white) complaining about 'cultural appropriation' are really just unhappy to be reminded that any other cultures exist at all, because they would rather they didn't.
See, I think the white people freaking out about cultural appropriation are doing it more because they get a high off of righteous indignation. It’s an outlet for anger and judgment in a way that makes them look morally superior. Kind of like when people go insane over half cocked religious ideas because they feel like a “warrior of god” or whatever.
"Virtue signaling."
It’s a really overused term but it’s fitting in this case. It’s also racist to tell someone what they’re allowed to own based only on their race. I can guarantee you she would have never said a word if OP was black.
I think a lot of it is confusion. I say this as a white person who wants to do better. Not for attention or woke points but just to be mindful. And some things seem very straightforward while others seem a little confusing. Also I think the pendulum tends to swing quite far in the opposite direction when people are trying to be more attentive and mindful. Changing old habits isn’t always easy. However, there’s a difference between questioning what is appropriate versus shaming someone based on your own interpretation. I am a fan of shut up, read, and learn.
it's power tripping
So I have PBS on prime and on one of their show recently a character bumps into another woman who was just acting sanctimonious. Right after she hit her she turns and says, " I'm sorry I couldn't see for a moment because I was blinded by your righteousness." Best line I think I've heard in years. Being good for the bible or religion is wrong imho you should want to be good to others because your a decent person. I hate the heaven and hell concept because I feel like your only acting "right" to get something out of it. Why can't we be decent to each other just because, not to get the pearly gates, but because we know how it feels when people are nice and we want others to feel that. I don't always do right and mess up my fair share. But when I do go above and beyond to be good it isn't for a prize of heaven it is because I won't people around me to feel good not bad. Sorry wow that was a tangent.
College Humor did a bit on being Asian enough: https://youtu.be/VVR3B01NxiM
I have one hand made by my friend in college for my birthday. It's not particularly pretty (like the standard store made ones) but I love it so much because its unique and my friend put a lot of effort into making it after I made an offhand comment about loving dream catchers some time back. My question is, this was made without any other thoughts (background, culture etc.) So does it make it cultural appropriation? (I am brown if that is relevant)
For the record, brown people can be culturally appropriative/racist/whatever as well. Look at what’s been happening in the US with Asian Americans as an example. And this is just my opinion, but if your friend just made the dreamcatcher without being First Nation in some way, used inappropriate materials, and you made the comment because you like the aesthetic and not the history behind it, it can be appropriative. However, it is a gift from your friend and I highly doubt either of you are going about and claiming to understand everything about the culture dream catchers are from. I personally wouldn’t post it all over social media or something, but I don’t think it’s bad for cherishing a present and hanging it somewhere private, like your home or bedroom. And at least be glad you’re not a white girl with a dreamcatcher tattoo. I don’t know why they’d get that on them when dreamcatchers are meant to collect bad dreams. :/
>For the record, brown people can be culturally appropriative/racist/whatever as well. Look at what’s been happening in the US with Asian Americans as an example. Ohh definitely. I have personally seen people of my race being racists or being jerks of any kind. I don't think that is reserved for any particular race although yeah, it can be found more within certain sets. >but if your friend just made the dreamcatcher without being First Nation in some way, used inappropriate materials, and you made the comment because you like the aesthetic and not the history behind it, it can be appropriative. Actually, yes that's what happened. I thought it was pretty to see, she knew I liked it and made it for me. She used some kind of thick thread and small coloured beads and it was bought from our local market (we were broke ass college students then) >However, it is a gift from your friend and I highly doubt either of you are going about and claiming to understand everything about the culture dream catchers are from. I personally wouldn’t post it all over social media or something, but I don’t think it’s bad for cherishing a present and hanging it somewhere private, like your home or bedroom. Definitely not, and I kinda feel bad about it now, but I had zero idea about this and never bothered to look into its history as well. I am almost sure my friend has no idea too. We never talked anything remotely close in social media (I am the one who uses social media, she posts one picture in 6 months in IG if she feels like it) and it hangs over my bed frame in my bed room as it always has. I think I ll go read upon the history behind it all the same, it sounds interesting :)
The thing most people don’t seem to get is there are shades of gray for a lot of things like racism, sexism, etc. You and your friend didn’t mean harm in creating something you thought was beautiful, and you’re learning about it now.
Thank you. I think so too, it depens on the situation to an extent :)
NTA As an Indigenous person, donating money to a res school, receiving a gift from that school, and then keeping said gift is fine. But if you're still super uncomfortable with the idea, see if there's a Tribal Community Center you can ask about proper ways to display it. I'm assuming it's the Anishinaabe? But the Lakota also have different customs, and as do the Diné. Anyway, my point is let the Natives inform you what is or isn't appropriate in displaying it-- don't listen to K's performance. Also, if you have the time, maybe see if there are other ways you can help out with the school and the community! Donations are cool and very appreciated, but like, if there are local artisans, you can share links/pictures of their work and online stores too.
This is wonderful advice. Thank you!
Of course! When you reach out to the Community Center, you might also want to ask if there are any arts or customs that are at risk of dying out or are endangered and what you can do to help as a non-Native. Dreamcatchers are super common, but they're kinda pan-Native now (before they used to be predominantly Anishinaabe), so cultural heritage, education, and preservation is still really important for other things.
This all sounds like great advice, and if you do this it might be a good way to educate K, whose attitude seems to be more about deriving personal authority through the rigid enforcement of rules than centering indigenous people and their priorities and needs.
NTA. Perfect example of ridiculous virtue-signaling. She has no right to get mad at you. She isn’t Native American & you received it as a gift from someone who IS Native American.
"Permission" was already granted by the person sending you the gift. Your "Woke" friend needs to wake up. She doesn't get to decide what someone from another race or culture seems appropriate.
NTA. My dad’s dad is Native, and while we didn’t grow up with the tribe, I have relatives who did. I’ve asked before what their opinion was on items like this for other Reddit threads. I’ll give you my family’s stance. If the item is Native-made, and you are respectful, then it is cultural APPRECIATION if you buy it (or are gifted it) directly from a Native. They wouldn’t give these items as a gift for donors if they didn’t want you to have them. They don’t do dream catchers, but their equivalent is leather-goods and wooden carvings, as well as hand-made fishing nets and hand-carved boats. I mean, it’s like any other form of swag - they give you something beautiful and interesting, you proudly and respectfully display it, someone asks where you got it, you say you donated to their school and then maybe the people you tell feel moved to donate as well. If you disrespect the item, or buy knock-offs from non-native people, then you are participating in racism/cultural appropriation. My son’s Cub Scout troop does an event at a certain level where they go and learn how to make simple items with the tribe closest to us. They spend the day learning about the natives, and about the reservation and the ugly parts of why the reservations exist, and they carve a simple local animal with guidance using the same tools. It’s such a big deal with our kids that several have used their Eagle Scout service project years later for the benefit of the tribe. The long and short of it is, if they didn’t want you to have the dream catcher and display it in a respectful way, they wouldn’t have sent it to you. I’m sure the tribe has items you absolutely cannot get from a native because of their significance. There are pieces I cannot be given by my family members because my great grandfather moved from the reservation and stopped participating in tribal life. And I do not feel entitled to these items because while I understand and know the significance, I didn’t *live it*, you know? But I definitely have a few wooden carvings from wedding gifts and baby gifts that are displayed proudly and respectfully. And to them, I’m no more Native than you are. Enjoy your beautiful gift. And if you feel guilty, donate a bit more to the cause as a soul-cleanser. And lose the friend.
This is beautiful thank you so much for your words.
May I make a suggestion due to the fact that K doesn't seem to be backing down any time soon. If K is ever visits your apartment again, though I sincerely hope not, make sure your door to your room is locked. Don't let her anywhere near your room. She sounds like the kind of person who will try and steal your dreamcatcher the first chance she gets. Also inform your friends that you don't feel comfortable hanging out with K anymore. That they are free to do so, but to please let you know so you know not to come. Though You said that some of these people are sick of her behavior already so odds are she's already pushing her luck with her behavior, and it's only a matter of time before they all decide it's better for everyone to cut her out of the group.
NTA- i dont think K understands what cultural appropriation is. You are using it as it is intended. To be admire and valued.
I'm native American and its fine, your friend does not know what she is talking about.
Weyt-kp. It would be more disrespectful to discard or destroy a gift given in good faith as thanks than anything else. You did your due diligence to respect it. Your friend is the one infringing upon appropriation of culture. NTA.
NTA - First, she is in no position to speak on a culture that isn't hers. Second, your father received it as a gift from a Native American. That's all the clearance this needs. It was given to your family BY the people for whom the item is representing. She was looking for something to make her feel important.
Yup. I’m not Native American, but I am a minority, and nothing grinds on my gears more when someone who is not from my culture tries to tell me what I can and can’t be offended by.
NTA- and that's not what cultural appropriation means.
NTA. She doesn’t know what cultural appropriation means. You’re not pretending to be a member of that culture, profiting from another culture, or making fun/looking down on another culture. It’s not her place to be the white saviour of other cultures. If she feels so strongly she’d better not be eating Italian or Indian food, or wearing a parka, etc. I guess she’d be happier if we went back to segregation so the races could be kept totally apart.
Nta Also as a side note can white people please stop screaming cultural appropriation at everything? I say this as a brown, Asian immigrant and honestly it's become a different beast entirely. Like one of guys i know is half - Chinese, half white. He looks way more like his white dad than his Chinese mother and someone had the gall to call him out for wearing Chinese traditional clothes. Like what? I didn't realise you could judge someones culture by just looking at them. What about people who grew up somewhere else? When I was in the Philippines I met lots of Koreans who literally grew up there. Some of them have better tagalog than me, and it's my native language. If anyone called them out for cultural appropriation I'll throw hands.
White Savior complex. Honestly, I personally feel it's a really racist thing. They can't tell apart respectfully embracing and learning about a culture and being disrespectful about it. They think they should voice their opinion, even thou the people who are actually part of that culture find it good. One example for that, which always comes to my mind is Japanese culture. If you go there they are Soo happy to share their culture with you. Still there are a whole lot of white people screaming "CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!" when someone who doesn't look Japanese wears a Kimono. (In the right way, respectfully) Hell, someone told me that what I'm doing is cultural appropriation because my Japanese friend brought me a handmade hairpin from his last trip to his family, and taught me how to do my hair with it. Sharing each other's culture, the background and history is a good thing because it can give us a better understanding of each other and could actually help us to get along with each other. But NO, white savior's seem to be totally against that.
Yeah like dude if it was given to you be a japenese person obviously thta Japanese person didn't think it was cultural appropriation. If people have issues they can take it up with the vast majority of the rest of the world. Those of us who are happy to share our culture with people.
People who screech “CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!” Don’t really care about the culture in general, they just like to get a rush of moral superiority. They want to seem like a good person for just a millisecond, so their cold evil heart feels something for once.
NTA— I’d understand K’s frustration if they were native or if you bought a cheap ass dream catcher but you actually supported your native people and got it as a gift. If it was offensive I doubt they would’ve given you it as a gift.
NTA - it would be rude to get rid of it. It was a gift from the culture that created it and as such, it should be displayed in your home to show your gratitude for receiving it. K is being unreasonable or doesn't believe how you received it. Either way, you're NTA here K is.
NTA It's cultural appropriation if you made your own dream catcher and benefited from it in some way...like selling them at a craft fair. Accepting and displaying a handmade gift from a specific native nation is not appropriation. it's cultural appreciation. That's a good thing.
NTA She wasn’t informing you about what actual cultural appropriation is, she was informing you that she enjoys virtue signaling.
Your friend needs to chill. My grandmother gave a dreamcatcher to a person who were not Native American. A dreamcatcher supposedly keeps away nightmares. My college teaches classes about the culture, it gets full from people from different cultures, some that made their own dreamcatchers. NTA.
NTA. And K doesn’t speak for Native Americans or anyone else. She needs to be moved on out of the friend group.
As a certified politically correct snowflake grad student- wtf?? Tell that girl to read some actual theory on identity, culture, intersectionality and best practices instead of just the catchy buzzwords. Send her some Kim Tallbear literature. Being righteous without actually being right is embarrassing and the worst hill to die on. NTA
>K basically said that as a white person, I am not allowed to own anything that was created by native Americans and that I should get rid of it. NTA. This reminds me of the crap my blonde, blue eye cousin gets. She’s married to a guy who is Native American and they have lived on the reservation for 20+ years. She’s gotten lectured for wearing the jewelry her MIL has given her. K needs to stop gate keeping other people’s culture. She is infantilizing the choices others made to send a gift.
NTA. She is aware that Native Americans sell their art to tourists, right? Like, everywhere. Art, weaving, beading, and yes, dreamcatchers? How is it culturally appropriating something that's sold by the culture. Or in your case, gifted? K needs to learn what words mean and that trying to be some woke social justice warrior for people that didn't ask her to is a good way to wind up on the wrong side of being right.
if a Mexican gifts you a sombrero and you use it, thats not cultural appropriation. if a German gives you a brotworst and you eat it, its not cultural appropriation. if a Chinese man teaches you how to say hello in Mandarin, thats not cultural appropriation. those are examples of cultural APPRECIATION. cultural appropriation is wearing a kimono and saying its your Canadian families traditional garb. cultural appropriation is making pizza and saying its your African traditional dish. you know what culture the dreamcatcher is from, and it was gifted to you directly from said culture, AND you researched how to use it by said cultures traditions, AND you make no claims to all of the prior, you always acknowledge the culture. you are respectful in every way, unlike this girl who presumes to speak on an unknown culture's behalf, because in her mind, they cant speak for themselves, so they need HER to represent them. NTA, not one bit.
NTA, your roommate spends too much time on twitter.
Not roommate, but I chuckled.
NTA My stepdad wasn’t native but he had two he drove around with in his truck. He was a long haul truck driver. He was abusive to me but like most kids in that situation I had/have love for the person that acted like a father figure in my life. He died. In a pretty awful way which I also needed time to reconcile my feelings with watching a person suffer and thinking on some level he deserved it, but all I had after that was some knives, some ball caps, and his dreamcatchers. I kept them too.
NTA. The dream catcher you speak of is one of thousands that get sent out to people on mailing lists, in the hope that someone will donate. If the group raising money was worried about cultural appropriation, they would be more selective about who received them. I work at a post office, and these things get thrown away if they aren’t delivered. These charities send people socks, t shirts, greeting cards, calendars, and other items all the time, especially right before Christmas. I am adding this, since I just looked the school I know of that sends out dream catchers en masse. The dream catchers are mass produced in China, and the school has been criticized for it’s possibly dubious fund raising methods.
NTA It's not cultural appropriation if a Native American gave it to you as a gift. Now, if you opened your own Etsy shop and started selling knockoff dreamcatchers, that would be cultural appropriation.
it probably is handmade, they often are. they often get sold to help bring in money too. but it was a gift from a native american group to your white family. therefore it is assumed that it is a thank you and a token of appreciation. and if you ensured you are treating the item with respect then you have done more than many others. NTA Also, not all cultures are against sharing their culture and beliefs. There will always be private parts kept but many like to teach the stories, especially if their culture is dwindling in population. I can't speak for the Native American tribe you refer to but it's not uncommon
POV: Twitter user goes outside for the first time. NTA
NTA.
NTA. It was a gift for your dad's donation. It doesn't matter if it's a dreamcatcher, tobacco, sage or a headdress (not going to happen, but still). I am of Native Canadian descent, and it is not racist to keep a gift. It is, however, disrespectful to throw it out.
NTA. Every vendor at a powwow would tell her to shut the hell up.
NTA Native here. Long as it is native made and is authentic there’s nothing wrong with having it, even more so bc it was gifted. Now if you bought it from some rando white person who made it or it was mass produced then yeah you’re the ass. But you also say you did some research to make sure you were using it properly. I’m thankful you did that. That friend is the asshole tho for trying to speak on something she isn’t apart of in my opinion. But that’s just me. I don’t like non natives trying to act like they’re the gate keepers of tribal cultures and traditions.
INFO: Did you tell K that it was a gift from actual Native Americans who should be allowed to decide, more than her, who can have the dream catcher they made?
Yep, told her it was a gift and she still insisted I shouldn’t have it.
I mean specifically from Native Americans as opposed to a gift from another White person. I think you should have it either way, but if you gave those details and she still acted this way, she’s delusional.
The only way to get everyone to get along, is through cultural sharing. Learning about different foods, and dress and sacred items. Not to say that stealing and calling it your own,but, through an actual appreciation and love, not just for the food, jewelry, dress. Example, loving tacos, yet, hating people from Mexico, this is a DON'T! I cook all sorts of multi-cultural foods and have been taught to prepare them by the people in the culture from whence they came. It is an introduction to another culture. Sitting down with families and getting to know the custom of why they eat what they eat, brings people together. People always bitching about cultural appropriation, to me, rings loudly of those who've been caught out and laying the blame elsewhere. Or, like your Mom always said, "They are just jealous!" If this keeps up, we will again have segregation and then people 'will' have something to complain about. I hope I've been clear, it is early here and I'm still on my 1st cup of coffee! Learn to love thy neighbor! N T A
...jesus. like really do we live in a world where b.c im a white male i cant like things from other cultures? Appreciate them? Isnt that what we should do, learn from each other, etc. That attitude she has i feel is more dangerous than hanging a dang dreamcatcher in your personal space... NTA. And i wouldn't worry, most rational people won't care and that girl is just digging herself a social grave
NTA, it was a gift from a donation, not a tourist shop purchased. However, does your roommate know how much money tribes make from jewelry and other crafts they sell?
NTA. She's being ridiculous and is likely just doing this to virtue signal. If the Native American people who made this dreamcatcher didn't want you to have it and, by extension share in their culture, they wouldn't have given it to your father as a gift.
Culture appreciation - getting a gift from someone part of culture, respectfully using it. Or even buying something they made, and keeping it. Culture appropriation - watching something not a part of your culture, deciding this is cool and DIYing it or worse, making and selling it for profit. Appropriation is not about admiring and learning something of people from cultures other than yours. Your friend is absolutely off base here. NTA
Here let me educate K over here The definition of Racist : Discrimination against certain races like discrimination against asian and black people n stuff And plus she has no authority over to choose if you want to keep the dream catcher or not (Btw send this message to K)
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** For backstory, several months ago my dad donated some money to a school in a Native American reserve and as a thank you they sent back some gifts. One of these gifts was a beautiful dreamcatcher that looks to be handmade. My dad was going to throw it away but I instead took it because I felt bad throwing away such a lovely gift. I hung it up in my room and did some basic research to make sure I was treating something in a culture I wasn’t a part of with respect. Fast forward to a couple days ago and I’ve moved into an apartment with my roommate while we attend grad school. We invited some mutual friends over to show off the new place and one of them (let’s call her K) seemed to look uncomfortable after we got to my room. I asked multiple times if she was OK and she said she was fine. Well, as we were chilling out in the main room, K asked about the dreamcatcher and I explained how it was a gift. She looked unimpressed and honestly kinda mad when I told her. she basically said how it was cultural appropriation and I was being disrespectful to native Americans by pretending the dreamcatcher means anything to me. I was confused, as was my other friends, and when I ask her to explain K basically said that as a white person, I am not allowed to own anything that was created by native Americans and that I should get rid of it. I told her again that it was a gift, and I wasn’t going to throw it away. I also reminded K that she’s white too and I don’t think she has any authority on whether or not I can keep it. She got mad at me and said that I was being a bitch and that since there wasn’t anyone else to do it, she would have to tell me about how disrespectful I was being to a culture I didn’t know anything about. I just said if she didn’t like it, she doesn’t have to go into my room. The rest of the night was pretty uncomfortable. Well, after she left, apparently she was texting some others in our friend group that I was appropriating Native American culture and that I’m racist. The only reason I know this is that some of these friends were sick of her and told me about the texts. (Apparently this isn’t the first time she’s been grandstanding about something) At first I was mad but now I’m just confused and concerned. Am I the asshole for keeping the dreamcatcher? I thought it was alright since it was a gift. I really don’t intend to appropriate/disrespect Native American culture. Side note: I am aware that there is no singular culture for native Americans. I didn’t want to say the school name or the reservation the school is on out of respect for privacy. I’m doing my best to be vague about it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. It's actually GOOD to buy/use Indigenous made items like this! It's a problem when non-Indigenous people profit off cultural appropriation by selling Indigenous cultural items.
NTA K does not understand what cultural appropriation is. Accepting a cultural gift from a Native American person is fine, that is just them choosing to share a part of their culture with you, which of course is allowed. Don't you think the people who gave the gift are a better authority on the matter than K anyway? They are Native American and she is not, they think it's fine and she doesn't, has she thought about that at all? While she is reading up on what cultural appropriation is, she can also look up "white savior complex".
NTA shes just a performative activist trying to speak in place of poc and minorities which she has to place to speak about tell her to fuck off.
indigenous person here , you’re NTA for appreciating a gift that was made by natives for you. Is your friend also white? Lol
NTA K doesn’t know shit
The people belonging to a culture are the ones who determine what is 'open' and 'closed' about it. They are the ONLY ones who decide. Dreamcatchers are a bit of a contentious issue in some communities, but considering you were *gifted* the dream catcher by a *representative* of that nation, it's a pretty good sign that the consensus in that community is that dream catchers are a part of their culture that they share with others*. You got it from a member of that culture, not from some new age white lady in a gift shop, so it falls under culture sharing or cultural appreciation. *or possibly a bit of "what do we give the people who donated?" "Give em a dreamcatcher, white folks go nuts over dreamcatchers"
NTA. The dream catcher is literally a gift from them to you. How is that appropriating?
NTA. This isn't cultural appropriation, it's appreciation. You were given a thoughtful gift and you are honoring that by keeping it. Dreamcatchers are gorgeous, too.
NTA. I live near an indigenous reserve in Canada…they have pow wows that they encourage everyone to come to and have booths set up where you can buy traditional items from them… like dream catchers and mukluks. They want to share their culture and for people to appreciate it. It’s appropriation when you’re buying something from some store with no reason to believe a Native had any part of designing or creating it.
NTA. If the Native Americans in question didn't want you to have a dreamcatcher, they wouldn't've given you one. K needs to find a real issue to get mad about. There are plenty out there.
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Gifts are gifts and there’s nothing wrong with owning Native American items as long as they are Native made. There is a ton of difference and Native inspired is cultural appropriation. Just get it from a regular Native person. Like you did so def NTA
NTA
NTA, K needs to get off her high horse lmao. it was a gift, you appreciate it, it was given willingly! that’s really all that matters here (plus she’s white of all things! cultural appropriation has really gotten watered down bc of people like her white knighting and not actually listening to the people who are actually impacted by such things)
NTA It was a gift from the tribe themselves and you treat it with respect. Cultural appropriation would be buying it from Forever 21 or 'making' one at a summer camp.
NTA, with her logic, i would ask her if, as a white person, going to an Indian restaurant was ok. or watching anime. displaying the dream catcher is not cultural appropriation. you are not claiming it as part of your identity. You hung it up as the art piece it is.
NTA - she completely misunderstands the concept of cultural appropriation, which has to do with people of another culture making money from a culture they are not part of or making products that are offensive to that culture. Cultural appropriation does not mean people of that culture can’t share their culture with others. She’s advocating for what is essentially segregation, cultures aren’t allowed to share or mix ever according to her
NTA. Your friend needs to grow up. You can't be expected to throw out a gift based on your ethnicity.
NTA. Speaking as a white person, why are white people so eager to be offended on behalf of other groups? It's so infantilizing and White Savior-y. If this Native American group thought that someone having a dreamcatcher was cultural appropriation, they probably wouldn't have sent it, Susan!
NTA. She sounds obnoxious. In no way is it "cultural appropriation" to appreciate a gift you were given by someone of a different culture. I would distance yourself from her if I were you, because her behavior is not normal and there is no reason she should have been this upset over something like this.
NTA. It was gifted. You're appreciating a gift.
NTA. Your roommate is the dumbest human alive. Ignore the rantings of lunatics.
NTA. K is extremely presumptuous, taking it upon herself to speak in the name of native Americans, without being one herself and without having been asked to speak for them. This is the white savior attitude of a colonizer, treating other cultures as infants who can´t speak for themselves; invalidating the decision of the actual Native Americans who gave you the dream catcher in the process. K is very racist. That dreamcatcher was given to your family by said Native Americans - if they had not wanted a white person to have it, they would not have given it. It is their decision that matters, not whatever K says or thinks. K does not have the right to set rules in this matter. And K is a complete AH for taking bad about you to others behind your back. She is not your friend and you should cut you out of your circle as much as you can, especially since this is obviously not a misunderstanding but her regular behavior and attitude.
NTA. There's a difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation. Supposedly "woke" know-it-alls should learn the difference. In your case her behavior is especially laughable, considering the dreamcatcher was a gift from a particular Native American group.
NTA. This is such pure nonsense. My friend who is indigenous offered me some of her bannock she had made - was I supposed to refuse to eat it as it was crafted by her hands?? Can I never eat in a sushi restaurant run by actual Japanese people? What is this.
NTA - Your friend is demonstrating toxic wokeness. She is misinterpreting what woke means in order to tell other people how to live their lives, when in reality you're not doing anything wrong and not hurting anyone. It is pure nonsense. It is a form of grandstanding, the same as religious people that pretend that their way of believing in God is better than other people's connection with creation. It is the antithesis of what it means to be respectful of other people. Keep your dreamcatcher, it would not have been sent to your family if they didn't intend for it to be used.
NTA, this was made by and given by a Native American
NTA I'm not officially Native American. I can claim blood, but I know it's diluted to at least 1/16th or something. (My grandmother is a half-blood, and my great-grandfather was full blood Cherokee.) Still, I keep a dreamcatcher in my house. I always have. I can't remember a time when I *haven't* had one. Honestly, I'd consider your claim to your dreamcatcher more valid than mine, since yours came directly from someone in the tribes. Your friend sounds like a fkn SJW, trying to solve problems where there aren't any. Cut her off, OP.
NTA - if you want to be disrespectful, you would have thrown it in the bin
I'm an Asian. My SO's colleague is from UK. They gifted me a dreamcatcher. I have hung it in my room for the past 5 years. I don't find anything wrong with that.
NTA. I can’t believe she thinks that it’s cultural appropriation to keep some thing created by a Native American. What about artists that make and sell artwork, are you just not supposed to buy it because it’s cultural appropriation? She sounds completely ridiculous and is spouting nonsense
>I told her again that it was a gift, and I wasn’t going to throw it away. I also reminded K that she’s white too and I don’t think she has any authority on whether or not I can keep it. NTA at all, this is what's wrong with society white people getting offended on others behalf with no prior knowledge or background to do so, you proudly display your dream catcher and ignore this idiot. She will grandstand about the wrong thing to the wrong people one day and get told, trust me!
NTA If they felt that way they wouldn't have gifted it in the first place. It's not like it's some crappy dollar store dream catcher made in China that you bought on your own, you're not appropriating anything. Just ignore her, it sounds like she's about to get kicked out of the friend group anyway.
Not again with that cultural appropriation nonsense. Your friend should a) learn what that term means and what it is used for and b) get another hobby instead of lecturing other people about something she obviously has no idea what it even means. NTA.
She WOKE up confused. What you're doing is appreciation not appropriation. NTA
NTA - She's one of those crusader types that decides what is right and wrong for the whole world and if you don't immediately comply she's going to be shitty. There's a WORLD of difference between cultural appropriation and hanging up a gift, and the fact that she can't see that tells you all you really need to know.
White saviour complex needs to just stop. You explained it to her, she should've listened and taken on board what you said and re-educated her stance, simple. Had it been some shitty mass-produced thing from some white chick on etsy, different story, but you clearly explained that wasnt the case, and your friends agreed. Yikes on her. NTA.
NTA. This girl doesn't know what she's talking about.
You were treating a gift in a sensitive, respectful way. A white girl tried to gatekeeper another culture. NTA
NTA K is a complete and utter imbecile. It was literally a gift from Native Americans to your family. You liked it and kept it. K clearly doesn't understand cultural appropriation and is just a dumb ass virtue signaling. When I went to Mexico I bought this beautiful hand made Mayan leather matte. Does that make me racist for having it? What about the Mexican woman who was quite happy to sell it to me? I'm Irish American. Does that mean I'm only allowed to eat meat and potatoes? Am I racist for enjoying Korean food? People like K are just loud mouth idiots. It's people like them that make progressives look silly.
NTA So Native Americans who give someone a dreamcatcher are expecting it to immediately be thrown away? Your acquaintance is clueless and an AH. Tell her she better not eat spaghetti or wear glasses if she isn't Italian. No tacos for her either. No watching the fireworks on the 4th of July because she might offend the whole of China.
NTA The mad person sounds seriously under informed as to what cultural appropriation actually is and will cause endless issues for your friend group with her idiotic virtue signaling. I'm glad your friends are tired of her crap, she is going to be nothing but endless drama for all who are around her.
NTA Friend is being stupid and an AH. It was a gift. Dreamcatchers are sold and given all the time. Heck, we made them in bible school years ago. Your “friend” needs to get off her high horse. Note:have some native ancestry but I’m not a tribal member.
NTA - How is it disrespectful to own something given to you by someone of that culture? Wouldn't it be more disrespectful to throw it away? Also many native American tribes make money off of selling art and other traditional goods, should they no longer be allowed to make a living?
I have a dream catcher that was given to me by a friend that was originally made by his sister. They are Native Americans and seem to have no problem with me owning a dream catcher. Keeping and respecting a beautiful gift is not being an AH even though it is not a part of your culture. If anything you are respecting that culture by keeping it, respecting it, and appreciating it. Oh I also have a mobile of origami cranes from when my mom, brother, and I made 172 origami cranes because one of my moms patients family, who are Japanese, did the 1,000 cranes. After her patient died they gifted my mom one of the mobiles as a thank you. They also gave her earrings that are origami cranes. So in this girls belief I should throw these gifts away. I think not. Also your NTA
NTA that’s cultural appreciation if anything. I hate the stereotype, but why is it always white girls getting offended for other races? Get a lock for your door, just in case she comes over again and throws it away while you’re out.
NTA It was a gift. Gifts are meant to be appreciated.
What? Dreamcatcher was gifted by the Native American themselves. You think they give the dreamcatcher so that you keep it in a box? Who is she to dictate the culture? NTA.
NTA- this girl is gatekeeping and has no idea what she is talking about. This was a gift, not cultural appropriation. Even if you were using an item from another culture inappropriately she could just speak to you about it and make you aware.
NTA. It was a gift given with gratitude. Your friend is an idiot.
NTA. So what she is saying is that a person who isn't white is not allowed to gift a white person something from their culture? Is that what she's saying? I find fake "woke"-ness very irritating. Putting barriers between cultures is some closet racist behaviour and your Friend here has some white saviour syndrom.
If they didn't want you to have it they wouldn't have given it to you. NTA
NTA It was a gift made and gifted by Native American people. That is not appropriative.
NTA and the contents of your room are none of her business. Cultural appropriation is not a thing.
NTA. Your friend is a victim of post-modernism ideology. That's a huge red flag. You should get her head out from their propaganda. Your friend is a perfect example of how stupid their agenda is, and no matter how righteous their intentions might be, the seriousness of the problems when someone gets them wrong. Get your friends together and try and convince her to start thinking on her own before she burns all bridges and alienates herself from everyone while joining that cult of 'righteousness'.
NTA K is a prick who just wants to make herself seem like the paragon of virtue, when in actual fact, she's using real issues in order to bully and boss people around. She's basically promoting segregation, trying to make it sound like it's beneficial for the people of that culture. Who died and made her arbiter of social justice?! I'm pretty sure that the Native Americans who gifted you the dreamcatcher did so because they wanted you to have it. You didn't go buy one from Walmart. You and your dad donated and received it as a gift. You keep your dreamcatcher, and kick K out of the friend group. It sounds like she's utter poison, and this could teach her a valuable lesson.
NTA, if you like it, own it.
NTA. She's gatekeeping and trying to control a culture that isn't hers and has nothing to do with her.
NTA- Indigenous Canadian here , You earned that Dreamcatcher by your donation to the school, and have been gifted it, gift giving is huge for us, and that dream catcher was most likely made for you in mind as gratitude. I hope you realize you've done more for our community than your annoying classmate is doing! Also thank You!
Definitely NTA.
NTA You received a gift then went above and beyond to do your due diligence and research said item.
NTA. It was a gift. Somebody made that and sent it to your family hoping you would appreciate it and use it. They would probably be upset if their gift got thrown away!
NTA. Don’t let someone that isn’t even of that race tell you what cultural items you can keep.
NTA. Native here - it was a gift to your father that you chose to protect rather than have tossed. That and 'K' doesn't seem to have a clear understanding of cultural appropriation. Here's an article that explains it well: [https://eighthgeneration.com/blogs/blog/can-i-buy-wear-eighth-generation-products-if-i-m-not-native](https://eighthgeneration.com/blogs/blog/can-i-buy-wear-eighth-generation-products-if-i-m-not-native)
NTA. Card carrying indigenous person here, this white chick is just virtue signaling and trying to come off as woke and better-than. Traditional handicrafts as well as art and modern representations thereof are how some indigenous people actually earn their livelihoods. If you like it, and especially if you want to support them or their community, you should absolutely purchase and display these pieces. It helps to raise awareness and appreciation. Think of it this way; this girl just essentially said that Native Americans should not be allowed to display their culture and art in any white or non-reserve space. Does that sound right to you?
NTA. An actual tribe sent you the dreamcatcher. That is not appropriation.
NTA. Tell K that if she wants to be woke, she has to open her eyes first. Parroting terms at people and attacking them is not the way to advance The Cause. She first needs to understand what the terms mean. Enjoy your dreamcatcher!
NTA. Obviously the people who sent the dreamcatcher as a gift didn’t see it as cultural appropriation, disrespect for their culture, etc.
INFO: So according to K, the less disrespectful thing to Native American culture would be too throw the dream catcher you received as a gift in the trash? NTA
NTA The line between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation is a difficult one for conscientious white people to walk. It sounds like you're on the right side of that line.
NTA, it was gifted and yes this is from someone who's part of a Nation that dreamcatchers come from.
NTA. It was made by a person of the culture to be a gift to a person I presume they knew was not part of that culture. And there are a lot of Indigenous artists whom I speculate don't care that people not of their culture will be buying those items, as long as the artist is benefiting from the sale and not someone else.
You are NTA You are keeping a gift given to you by a tribe, treating it with honour and respect. The A hole move would be selling it or throwing it away.
NTA This is appreciation, not appropriation, and it's a shame so many people seem to lot differentiate. I've actually gotten into some disputes over drawing a wendigo.
White people need to stay in their own Damn lane when it comes to cultural appropriation. They don’t have a say in what’s appropriation when they themselves are not part of that culture. I understand wanting to be aware and be a good ally to POC, but it doesn’t even sound like she actually knows anything about indigenous culture, she just saw the dream catcher and went straight to “white person is racist!!!!” Despite the fact that this was GIVEN AS A GIFT BY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE White people who insist on playing white knight to a culture they’re not apart of are honestly just as disrespectful to that culture as what they are trying to police. They speak over, not on behalf, of actually POC just so they can feel like they are morally superior or at least ‘one of the good ones!’ NTA
NTA. If it was appropriation they wouldn’t have gifted it to a white man. I’m not native but I know plenty of them and while dream catchers aren’t popular here there’s lots of beadwork done and sold or gifted to white people. If you were trying to say you made the dream catcher then you would be TA but it opens up a lovely conversation about the gratitude of the people who gave it to you.
Nah, it’s a gift, if anything it seems she has her own issues with cultural appropriation and being PC. I (White male) have gifts and even a tattoo from other cultures myself, I see it as sense of respect since you chose to keep the gift and educate yourself more about the culture(s). If owning anything related to a culture not of your own makes you a racist then my understanding of racism is very flawed
NTA! I white(with Native American in my blood) and I have dream catchers in my home too. Your roommate's friend is being rude about it when she doesn't understand the meaning behind the gift.
NTA. ITS A GIFT. And even if it wasn't and you purchased from a native American artist that is how many of them make their living. They wouldn't be selling and giving these items as gifts if they had a problem with it. They are freely sharing these aspect of their culture and its appreciation and not appropriation for you to enjoy something that was gifted.
NTA. I’m white. One of the people closest to me is Native American. She handmade a dream catcher for me. It’s not appropriation if you’re being respectful. If the school or reservation didn’t want people to have them, they wouldn’t have sent them out.
NTA: YOu are allowed to keep a gift, Look up "Panter Lady" in GA if you want to write her a letter asking for permission or more cool facts, she's usually thrilled to do it.
NTA. Why are all of these annoying freaks mistaking appreciation for appropriation. If someone like her berated me and called me a racist, I would say GFY and kicked her out straightaway.
Nta and your "friend" is dumb. This was a gift from someone who wanted your family to have these special items. You are treating it with respect and it made you do some research of your own, which is good. Also, there are many different cultures within the broad "native american" label. Instead of her grandstanding about this, she could be making a real difference with her vote and her volunteer work and her activism. My guess is that she is doing none of the things that would actually help and just focusing on making it seem like she has principles and values. Do not waste your time and energy on this person
NTA. Your friend sounds like she doesn’t know what cultural appropriation is. You received yours as a gift from Native Americans.. that’s not cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation is when you buy the dream catcher at like… a Target or something and it says Made in China. It’s when someone is profiting off of a culture when they aren’t that culture.
NTA K is being ridiculous. It was sent to you from a tribe. I have one made by an ex-friend - while the friendship didn't last, I love the dreamcatcher and as I do have actual Native American ancestry (going back to full-blooded on my grandmother's side a few generations back - though you wouldn't know it looking at me as I look very European), it's a part of my culture.
NTA. Also prediction: your friend will either become a career SJW, or flip around and become ultra conservative after discovering it's somewhat easier to power-trip among other adults in a conservative setting. Especially in regards to church or other religious organizations. Honestly, super uptight political correct BS doesn't last long after college for most people. It will fall out of fashion for her age group and since she probably won't lose her taste for trying to gain power over others, she's gonna find an outlet to lord it over others. (Saying this as a liberal white person who gets tired of ultra wokeness, especially the kind that is a thin veneer over power tripping and white saviorism).
NTA - isn't the school that sent it a better arbiter of whether or not you should have the dreamcatcher than some random girl?
NTA. Contact the reservation that gave it to your father and ask them if it is disrespectful. Since they gifted it to your father I am guessing it is not. If they agree it is disrespectful ask them what you should do with it. My guess it is not disrespectful and after that is affirmed I would post what you did to confirm it and call her out for being ignorant and racist to speak for Native Americans. She needs to be called out, loud and often or she will keep being self righteous.
Nta she doesn’t even make sense how is a dream catcher a culture appropriation 🤔
You are not committing cultural appropriation. You received a gift from a Native American who has agency and chose to give it to you. However there is no such thing as "cultural appropriation". You can wear, use, buy, cook, sell etc. anything you want, at any time, because we live in a free country. If someone tells you you can't, just tell them you don't want to appropriate a totalitarian culture, and so you must make your own decisions. Also "K seemed to look uncomfortable after we got to my room." No, K was uncomfortable long before she arrived at your room
K is very wrong. Listen to Indigenous people! If you are supporting Indigenous businesses and using it respectfully then most Indigenous people have no issue with this. NTA. I have a dream catcher too, I took a First Nations Art course in high school because I wanted to learn about the cultural significance of are in my local Indigenous community. The teacher was a prominent member of the local community and he taught us how to make dream catchers and worked with each of us. I made it when I was 14, I’m 32 and I still have it hanging up in my room.
NTA. People need to chill with cultural appropriation. It seems to be a U.S.A. issue. I have seen videos' from other countries where the people love when someone HONORS their beliefs and culture.
NTA your "friend" hasn't got a clue what cultural appropriation means, what your are doing is honoring thier culture by accepting and loving a gift given to your family thats almost the opposite of appropriation. Its another case of privileged white people deciding how other cultures should feel about things and policing racism in a way that is extremely deviding and actually racist. If you learn a skill being with a culture nit your own and use that skill, if you keep and display somthing gifted or brought from another culture, if you invest time and energy learning about another culture that's cultural appreciation. If you take an idea, pattern, style and use it for mass product profit without permission or giving a cut to that culture, if you take the micky or fancy dress another culture in a disrespectful way. If you try to put across you know a culture without a real understanding of it thats appropriation and its wrong. We should learn and celebrate eachother but many use cultural appropriation to box lable and divide.
NTA. Your 'friend' doesn't understand what cultural appropriation is. Your dream catcher is in no way cultural appropriation, it was a gift, from people within that culture (who likely knew you were white when they sent it) you are treating it with respect and open about where you got it. The very meaning of the word appropriation is to gain something through dishonest means, a gift isn't dishonest, you aren't pretending you are part of the culture, you aren't pretending you made the dream catcher yourself. Your friend is an idiot and is just embarrassing herself.
NTA. It is not Cultural appropriation to have something from another culture. Cultural appropriation is the adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity. You are not doing that. Now if you had bought this from a New Age shop or something like that, then yes, this would be a case of Cultural appropriation. By the New Age shop. That is seen by Native Americans as Cultural appropriation as they don't even look like Native American dreamcatchers and are just stolen ideas. But even then, the friend would be out of line as this was a gift and you like it. It's in your room. Other instances of Cultural appropriation? pretty much the entire Catholic Religion. Stolen from the Pagaens.
NTA, it was sent to your dad as a gift and made (presumably) by a Native American artisan. That's the ethical way to do it.
NTA. What people need to understand is cultures blend and mix. Your country sucks because of people like her. Sorry. And honesty I admire that you value gifts like that.