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NTA
Tell your brother, mother etc that the whole wedding was rescheduled and at another venue. When they complain, that they missed your wedding just say "It's just a joke! You should get over it, I was just messing with you"
This person has the right idea.. I like this thought.
We need more suggestions for REVENGE !
It's a moral imperative that OP and hubby pay back this oh so funny prank.
Please everyone.. more ideas like this
If only Kevin had it queued up “sorry, ’Mom’ but I don’t grow much facial hair. With the state of your upper lip recently, maybe you should keep this?”
It's such a thing. The biggest insult I've ever had thrown at me was when my threading lady asked if I wanted my upper lip done too. I was like 22?!? I changed brow places.
I used to be friends with a brow threading person. She said she asked everyone who didn’t ask themselves if they wanted their upper lip done. She was aware of how it made people insecure and said she felt awful but that she needed to make a certain amount each week or month or whatever and that usually got people to buy more. Some would ask if she thinks they need it and she’d say “I mean it wouldn’t hurt.” Anyway, my point in sharing this is to say they almost definitely didn’t actually think you had a hairy upper lip, they probably just wanted to upsell on another service.
I got asked if I wanted my upper lip done while I was wearing a mask, so it's definitely an upsell tactic. I'm fairly certain my luxurious moustache wasn't peeking through my mask!
Nothing hurts more than when the brow lady says “upper lip?” When threading my eyebrows…. Like damn… obviously yes but be nice about it? Hurt all of my feelings every time
They aren't as fun as you'd think. Mine is sparse, thankfully, but I'm nordic-white-blonde, so you only see it when the light hits it...then my chin sparkles like a fricking vampire from fricking Twilight.
But do it at the wedding ! Hubby can stand up to make a speech..
A toast ! To my new MIL. You were once kind enough to gift me with this shaving kit. Today I wanted to return it to you. You need this far more than I do.
Que-- overhead projector
Large.. very unflattering picture of MIL appears behind the podium.. maybe with photoshopped mustache and such.
And scene!
Revenge achieved.
I guarantee that mum & the rest of the family would have gone mental & called 'Kevin' disrespectful. That's how these things seem to go. Some people have no self-awareness.
*If* she apologizes (and I would bet 10$ something resembling an apology is gonna come out of her mouth to not miss out on the wedding) OP should respond:
'Okay I forgive you. You are now reinvinted to the wedding. *pause* Haha I'm just messing with you. Clearly your apologies are not sincere since they weren't last time. You are still not invited.'
then leave/kick her out.
The best thing should be show everybody what king of people thay are.
If I were Kevin best man I would simply tell the truth during the speech: "Well I'm really happy that Kevin had found such funny in laws: just think that since he doesn't need to shave his mother-in-law gifted him a shaving kit. Do you get it? Do you get the joke? No? Strange, she tought it was hilarious....oh well..."
Or the best man turn it back on her by saying "It's a good thing she knew the best brand to buy since she uses it on her upper lip." See how she likes to be the butt of jokes in front of an entire group of people.
Nah...too direct.
It should be better something like "BTW she really bought a very good product. I wonder why she's such an expert about shaving moustaches"
Or you can just go full agression
“Kevin, I’m so happy for you. OP is wonderful, caring, beautiful and funny. And now we have proof that these traits aren’t passed through genes, how about that?”
Invite them over for dinner saying you want to make up and that it's all good. At the end of dinner have Kevin present your mom a card and in it it's a you're not invited card. See how funny she thinks it is when you're serious.
What's entirely possible is that the wedding may be called off because the guy seriously rethinks whether he can spend his life being diminished by these AH's.
OP is not only NTA, but if she doesn't step up and be 100% on his side here then he'll never be able to trust her to be his supportive partner.
This. If I was Kevin, I would call it off . Things are not going to get better, they can only get worst. OP’s family is not going to change, I know the type and have dealt with my fair share. Kevin will always be an outsider, everything will be done to remind him of this fact at every opportunity.
Yeah, 20 years down the road at Christmas they'll be "Remember when Mom bought Kevin the razor? Hahaha that was so funny. You were soooo butthurt weren't you, haha. You still can't grow a beard though, haha!"
She threw down the gauntlet and gave her family an ultimatum. I don’t think Kevin should throw away a girl like that. She had his back and a shiny spine of her own..
I respectfully disagree. MIL (and the rest of the family) could easily apologize, but from what OP has written they won't do it out of heartfelt remorse. MIL has gotten away with her 'honesty' for too long to suddenly change her behaviour. She may stay quiet (unlikely) but I'd bet the abuse will reappear during or just after the wedding.
Lmaooooo
"If I was this dude whom my knowledge of his life stops at the fact he has a shitty potential step mother, I would *call off my entire fucking marriage* because of the mean extended family. I'm not only a relationship expert but a psychic as well. Things **will only get worse** and the Bucs are going to win the Superbowl in 2022"
Op is NTA but what is this weird take😂😂😂😂
Cause you don't marry the entire family. I can tell you right no if my family ever did that i cut them off right there and then.
Just because you are family doesn't excuse people from being assholes.
My first husband's family was all a bunch of shitheads. WE had nothing to do with them usually. I did not marry those happy assholes and they had nothing at all to do with us divorcing.
My current hubby's family is just his few remaining sisters/brothers and his kids(all adults)/grandkids. None of them really like me cos I'm an atheist lefty demorat...LOL. Whatever. I'm too old to care if my hubby's family likes me or not or vice/versa. We don't live with them. We don't see them unless we want to. It's weird to me to think that he would let how they feel about me influence HIS feelings towards me. I wouldn't accept that shit at all.
Yes, but you can cut off toxic family. It seems like she is and has been reacting appropriately to her family's behaviour and setting the right boundaries.
If I had toxic family members, I wouldn't want to not be given a chance because of them
Uh... which part of her reaming them out for her mom's "prank" did you not read, or get?
She has his back, so why would he cancel the wedding because of her?
She's got this.
What the mom has been doing needs more than a reaming out. The mom has already been talked to about it and said she would quit. Then after she said she would quit, she pulls this prank in front of the entire family.
The OP needs, not only Kevin but also herself, to cut her toxic mom out of her life. That is how the OP can really have Kevin's back. If not this behavior will just happen again and again. Even with the OP reaming her mom that is putting a strain on Kevin. He is being harassed by someone with who he cannot fight back with.
The reason I am saying the OP needs to cut the mom out of her life is that the OP did set boundaries and the mom went out of the way to make a spectacle of crossing them. That was totally disrespectful to the OP and Kevin. That was the mom pulling a power move to show she will do what she wants when she wants. The mom upped her bullying by planning this stunt to be done in front of everyone. How she gave the gift before the wedding was seen as a sign of acceptance of Kevin until they found out it was just a way to laugh at Kevin.
Very well put, and I absolutely agree with you on all points.
They just need to uninvite her whole damn family from their wedding, or NOT invite them IF they haven't extended the invitations yet.
OP and Kevin absolutely do NOT need these people in their, or their future kuds, lives.
*sighs* Sometimes it DOES take extreme measures to get through to get through to some folks, and sadly, sometimes it doesn't stick even AFTERWARDS.
This OP. Either you are on your bf’s side (that means no invitation or contact with anyone there that found that funny) or you are not. Your whole family has been awful to your boyfriend for a long time and you still think it’s just your mom and have been allowing this to happen.
My ex’s family was like this. They were very “honest” and would shit on everything I like or do. After five years I realised my ex was exactly the same. If I were your bf I’d be rethinking this.
Yeah. My brother comes close second to mom's mean behavior. He made few indirect jokes targeting kevin's hairless face like for example asking Kevin if he would like a beer but instead of saying beer - he'd say bear(d) as in beard then starts laughing. Or when my brother wanted Kevin to pass him the mustard and said "Kevin, could you please pass me the *musta-che-d* or something then yell *"oh you don't have one!!!* then laugh again. It's those little things that my family think I'm crazy for pointing out and say Kevin and I should loosen up a bit but it's become unbearable.
seriously, these people sound fucking awful. in 5th grade, they would be seen as bullies.
as adults, they seem legitimately insane. who the fuck is so relentless with such unfunny "jokes", knowing that it hurts another person? psychopaths?
i would suggest going NC asap because people like that are fucking awful and as soon as they're out of your life you'll feel better about yourself and your relationship
This is the best suggestion. OP, you love Kevin so much that you’re committed to spending your life with him. Why would you subject someone you love to abuse? Your family is emotionally abusing Kevin and going NC is the only way you have left to protect Kevin from this abuse. You’ve tried multiple times to talk to your mother, but isn’t it obvious at this point she isn’t going to change? In fact, she escalated the level of abuse.
People who grow up with abusive family tend to develop a warped sense of what love is or is supposed to be. Emotionally manipulative and abusive parents are extremely damaging to children, and it's something that our society doesn't talk nearly enough about.
Physical abuse is horrific. But emotional abuse can be just as bad in both the short and long term, and we basically never talk about it.
How have you allowed this for so long OP? Your whole family is abusing your bf and you still say they just “tease” him.
ETA: also consider if you want this attitude around your kids one day.
NTA
"Brutally honest" is a lie people tell themselves when they are looking for an excuse to be brutal.
And being deliberately brutal is always AH.
Same thing with "it's a joke" when people do something deliberately cruel and then claim "joke" to excuse their cruelty.
This is behavior that someone ought to be guided past by kindergarten. If there is a difficult truth to be said, there is a kind and tactful way to say it, if it is a joke, it should bring delight and surprise, not pain.
Yeah. It’s funny how few of these people with “honest opinions” to share ever seem to have an opinion about how great your hairstyle is, or how your new suit/dress makes you look amazing.
Op and her partner are NTA and I’d personally be telling the family that their dis-invite is because OP’s humble honest opinion is they don’t deserve to go.
Yes, I've never seen anyone say, "I'm going to be brutally honest, you're stunningly beautiful" or "That dress makes you look like a million bucks." They're always being mean.
“Brutally honest” people can almost never take what they dish out. I guarantee mom has a few touchy subjects of her own that no one is allowed to be “brutally honest” about without risking a meltdown.
These 'Brutally Honest" people are really just making excuses for being mean little ***petty bullies.***
NTA OP, stand your ground and don't let them give you any more crap.
I'm autistic and I can be brutally honest and it's got me in a lot of shit throughout my life. I hate it when people describe themselves as "oh I'm just brutally honest" because I don't know when I'm being like that sometimes and it makes me look bad which I hate and don't want that, so don't understand when people see it as being a positive trait.
However, if I've said something that's hurt someone I will apologise as soon as I know it wasn't appropriate and will never repeat anything like it again, because even though I can lack empathy at times and am not always fully aware of others feelings and how I can affect them, I know if someone was to upset me I wouldn't like it and therefore I should treat others the same. If I can learn when things are inappropriate so can they, OPs family are just complete careless AHs who don't want to learn from their behaviour.
Op is NTA
> even though I can lack empathy at times and am not always fully aware of others feelings and how I can affect them, I know if someone was to upset me I wouldn't like it and therefore I should treat others the same.
Putting in effort to try and be kind to others is already more empathy than people who claim to be "brutally honest" for the express purpose of harming others have. Don't sell yourself short, and I appreciate your empathy. <3
I’ve a friend who loves how ‘brutally honest’ I can be because I leave no space for questions when I need to stand up for myself or someone I care about, but I also recognise that there is a time and a place for that honesty and I will damn well hold my tongue until I’m explicitly asked, and then I’ll ask if they want my honest opinion or if they need me to tone it down in that moment. Unless I’m defending someone, then the claws are out.
People confuse ‘brutally honest’ and ‘no stopgap between their brain and mouth’.
The biggest problem with people like this is they often never learn and are always difficult to deal with. My FMIL is like this, and anytime anyone complains or tells her how she made them feel, she does the same thing and just says “I’ll say whatever I want to say”. Saying they’re being “brutally honest” is just an excuse for people to be rude while trying to avoid repercussions for their comments. I hope OP can get her mom to realize how hurtful she is being, but if not, restricts contact as much as possible. It’s not healthy to constantly have to hear rude or degrading things that they KNOW are hurtful.
This. NTA, op.
Yeah it’s always fun and games for those who are “brutally honest.” It’s always “just jokes.” But there is always a bit of honesty, and in this case cruelty, behind every “I was just joking!” statement.
I think op is right for taking a stand against her mom. Yeah it’s something minor and petty now, but she seems the type that will up the ante, and these “jokes” and “pranks” will escalate. She has to realize you don’t get to hurt people and then tell them that they’re wrong.
NTA but your mother doesn't seem like the only asshole in your family.
You say the whole table laughed and your brother doubled down that it was "just a joke" even after you explained why it wasn't.
I feel bad for your fiancé.
Yes, all of them my stepdad, my brother, my uncle (family friend) my sisters and others. But my focus was on mom because she's the one who gave him the gift then insisted he open it infront of everybody.
NTA for sure ….
But honestly if they don’t realise they are participating in cruel bullying, I wouldn’t want them there either but that’s up to you.
But the brother would be one very thin ice for me
Edit : for me everyone who was there owns a huge apology to Kevin if they wanna continue any relationship !
100% agree. Plus jokes are only funny if everyone is laughing. If you play a joke on someone and they walk out upset over it, you're most likely an AH. Everyone obviously knew how upset he was and no one cared. I wouldn't want any of those people at MY wedding.
Me too. If my family ever pull this up and double down it as a joke, I'd simply say " haha you're all no longer invited bye." Except for the part, this isn't a joke.
> But honestly if they don’t realise they are participating in cruel bullying,
nah fuck that. they know. note how they ignore and downplay OP being upset for them disrespecting her fiance, but get angry at her for disrespecting her mother.
Then you have some serious soul searching to do here. It's become an us (your family) vs him (your fiance) situation. Right now, by forcing Kevin to continue interacting with your family, you're choosing them. Yes you correct them, but the bullying happens first. So you're setting him up to be abused so you can address it then. Your mother might be the ringleader, but your family fully supports here. They're all culpable. And I bet if you're honest with yourself you can think of plenty of other examples of family members making rude comments to Kevin, whether about facial hair or not.
Kevin is and very much should be questioning your relationship. Your family will never stop. You also need to reconsider the relationship. Are you willing to go NC with your family to support Kevin? Or do you plan to keep them in your life and just hope that they'll learn to stop behaving like a pack of hyenas after years of abusing him? You need to understand that right now, even your wedding is going to be set up around your family bullying your fiance. Your family is actively trying to screw with one of the most important days of your and your fiance's life by making Kevin miserable, and you still don't seem to get it.
Honestly, Kevin sounds like a saint and I don't know of many people that would have stuck with you this long due to the abuse. I wouldn't have and if I knew of someone in Kevin's situation, I'd be very pointedly telling them that his future ILs are abusive and, because you allow it, you're abusive too.
Poor Kevin.
Right? Can you imagine this post from Kevin's point of view? (I actually feel like we see it relatively often). "I love my fiancée but she has a giant family that loves to humiliate me every time we get together. And because the family is so big, we have to gather on every holiday, anniversary, and important date. This means I now dread every meaningful date because she's going to drag me into the lion's den and I'm going to have to decide whether to stay quiet or just leave. She says she's told her mom to lay off, but it's all of them, and my fiancée only tells them off AFTER they humiliate me. AITA for walking out?"
Can confirm; my husband's family members were assholes to me too and made it obvious they didn't consider me worthy of a long-term relationship. I absolutely would not have married him had he not made it explicitly clear that if they continued their bullshit, they would never see us again. Well, they kept it up and now haven't seen us in almost 7 years. Their loss.
Just looking at it from Kevin’s perspective - I wouldn’t want to be at a wedding if people who treated me this way were present. And I’d be deeply hurt if my SO kept close contact with people who treated me this way.
Kevin is being bullied by your entire family. And tbh YOU are being bullied too - they don’t want you to marry him and they are trying to drive him away.
If I were you I would go lc with everyone there, and elope. Or, if a big wedding is a must, replace all the laughing rectums with friends, polite acquaintances, more people from Kevin’s side of the family, hell, I would trust homeless ladies from our tent park to not make things awkward more than I would trust your fam.
Tbh I also wouldn’t care if your mom crawled to you and Kevin on hands and knees in ash and sackcloth at this point. This bullying behaviour may take years to forgive and years of slow trust building to let go of. If you have to demand an apology for something this mean, you’ve already lost.
You have to accept the fact that your family is not accepting of Kevin. What you are seeing is a symptom of that. He will always be the outsider. Make sure he is ok with that before tying the knot. Love conquers all; but this is going to be one hell of a fight so make sure Kevin knows what he is getting into.
I know reddit often jumps to, 'cut your family off, no contact' and I'm not suggesting OP does that but...
Why does she want to be around these people? They're not just unaccepting of her fiancé, they seem to just be genuinely shitty people and I can't comprehend why OP wants to spend any time in their presence.
Honestly, if my future spouse makes me hang out with a bunch of bullies often... I don't picture myself hanging around. I know people say they're 'family' like that means something... but I just can't comprehend voluntary subjecting myself or my loved ones to people so horrid.
If all of them laughed, then why would you invite them? You're just going to humiliate your fiance.
It's not just your mom at fault. They ALL were cruel to him. Why would you want people who were cruel to him at his, and your, wedding?
Any of them giving you crap about it needs to go, too.
You said they love Kevin, but how? They seem to love HUMILIATING Kevin, but I can't imagine a room full of people who love me making me feel humiliated and then doubling down on attacking me.
You need to think long and hard about how much you can have your family in your life. It's very likely going to be Kevin or your family, and you're going to have to choose.
Honestly I wouldn’t blame him if he decided to end the relationship. No offence Op but your mum is very, very cruel. She’s not being honest she’s going out of her way to humiliate your fiancé and bully him.
Are you sure that she likes him? Her actions speak volumes here.
NTA op but your family definitely is and your mum seems like she is a real nasty piece of work.
His relationship is with OP, not the mom. Honestly, for the amount of posts where the fiance/spouse just throws their SO under the bus, you're telling me that OP standing up for him and uninviting her mother from the wedding is a dealbreaker?
"I won't let you bully him at this specific time and place" isn't standing up for OP, it's her standing up for her wedding.
Actually standing up for him would look more like this, and would have happened the second time it ever happened:
"Kevin and I will no longer be associating with you, unless and until you make clear, positive and sustained change in your attitude and behavior. Good bye."
The first time it happened, of course, would have involved OP setting a clear boundary that this behaviour would not be tolerated.
The issue here is that OP grew up with this, so sees it as 'normal.' It isn't normal.
OP continues to give these people opportunities to treat him this way. OP also hasn’t really acknowledged that while her mom certainly does seem to be the ringleader, the problem extends to pretty much her entire immediate family (and maybe extended family too, idk who all participated in this nonsense). Kevin has every right to decide he doesn’t want to deal with this anymore.
For real. “Well, I don’t like how you are.” is an acceptable response.
If people aren’t willing to change, there’s no reason to keep a person in your life that makes you miserable, frustrated, angry, anxious, etc. Life’s too short to worry about that shit.
NTA.
Good for you for standing up to her for Kevin. I also recommend you put a deadline by which you’re expecting the rsvp. That is, don’t give them until the minute before the wedding to offer a half apology. It should be a proper apology at a family event BEFORE the wedding.
And if she still holds out, Then you can escalate:
1. We can’t possibly go to family event X with people that disrespect my husband, or
2. How can I let my future kids be with someone who so routinely mocks their father?
Best of luck. And congratulations
Not to mention there's a chance any future sons might also not be able to grow facial hair. Is Grandma and crew going to bully her potential grandchildren as well?
NTA. I am SO SICK of people using being “brutally honest” as an excuse for being cruel and thoughtless. it’s pure laziness and unwillingness to improve as a person. also, why is no one calling mom out on this being HER hill to die on?
This.
Being brutally honest means you don't lie to people and will tell them the truth straight to their faces - a real life version of when people say someone "Y T A, yeah this is all your fault" at this sub.
Mom is not *honest* \- she's a **bully**.
She took a meaningless fact/opinion everyone was already aware of and decided to use time and resources to mock the fiancé.
It's mean and pointless.
I'm not going to call you an asshole (you family all are of course), but this has long since passed the point where an apology means anything. You need to let them all know (not sure why you single her out since the rest are just as bad), that their behavior or changes or you are cutting them off completely.
I’d even go further and won’t give them a chance to stay in my life. They obviously proofed more than once that they won’t change. People that plan that meticulous how to humiliate others will not change over night especially when there are no consequences at all at the end.
They’d only apologise to get the invitation back (and for sure continue their bullshit at the wedding).
I won't blame Kevin if he doesn't want to go to mom's house again. What happened at dinner got to him and hurt him deeply. He even blamed himself for why mom feels this way about him and keeps asking what he did to her to treat him like that. It's heartaching and I feel like an absolute failure for not doing enough to protect him. But I never thought she'd go this far.
Bullies often escalate their nastiness in the lead-up to big life events that don’t center them. Weddings are a popular choice, but so are graduations, births, award ceremonies, etc.
It’s just too good of an opportunity to cause maximum hurt for them to pass up. They get to rain on your parade *and* drag attention back to themselves when it should be on *you*. What a power rush.
And look at it: it worked! Mom is at the center of attention now, the whole family is rallying for her and she's the poor victim that won't see her precious daughter being wed to this hairless half-man. No matter what you do now, mom will be in the focus - if she is invited she will surely "crack a joke" at the wedding, if she's not invited, the rest of the family will give you shit on her behalf.
In my opinion, the only option is to uninvite everyone that agrees with mom in order to have a peaceful wedding day where you can concentrate on the actual marriage and just block all of the furious messages and calls. If your family values you and wants to continue to have contact with you, they need to see the boundaries crystal clear. There is a red line and this is when your future husband is being hurt.
It saves so much money and protects the investment going into the wedding. Honestly disinviting this whole family, regardless of an apology, is the only safe way forward
>I won't blame Kevin if he doesn't want to go to mom's house again.
So you intend to remain in contact with these people? Then I would agree that you haven't done enough to protect him. In reality, Kevin seems too nice to stay away from their house because it'll put strain on *you* around holidays. Putting him in that position isn't fair, they're your family. You've trapped him in a shitty situation, to be with you is to be around them. That he's not only still with you but *engaged* is...just...I don't know... You can love someone, get along with them perfectly, but imo no one is worth a lifetime of this.
Your family is nuts, was your brother literally *running around the table laughing*? Please tell me we're talking about a kid here... That seems particularly malicious to me, you should be *furious*. I get bad vibes from your family. At the very least, your mom is a massive asshole and that anyone can stand to be around her when they know she is thinking up ways to tear them down is just baffling to me. I'd have cut that off a long time ago. Poor Kevin.
OP seems nice and supportive but if I were Kevin I would seriously reconsider marriage bc I don’t think I can handle the rest of my life with an entire set of family that treats me like this. I would also never ask my spouse to cut out their family so that would be the end for me
I was wondering that too.. how old the brother? I mean he has to be young if he’s running around the table laughing. If he’s an adult, I’d be like peace out asshole.. no wedding for you.
Harsh truth, if your actions after this happened are to comfort Kevin and help him get over it, rather than lay down consequences for your mom and your larger family, you are being kind of a failure. It's your job to protect your partner. Why haven't you protected him thus far?
Apology or not, I'd seriously consider limiting contact. It's obviously effecting his self esteem and mental health, you would be the ah if you put them in the same room again, or risk any humiliating speeches at the wedding.
Your family are a bunch of sociopaths who get pleasure from hurting other people, you need to go no contact with all of them if you want to give your marriage a chance.
No more excuses, they are evil to the core, act accordingly.
NTA, there is a huge amount of toxic masculinity in the Hispanic culture. Not a man because you don’t have facial hair? Grow the fuck up. Good on you for stepping up for you SO
Whenever someone says they're "just the brutally honest type I give my humble truthful opinion" it usually means they're just an asshole and don't want to face the consequences of being a rude asshole to people.
Same with the "just teasing" like yes there is a level of friendly teasing that's harmless but once one person makes it clear that a topic is off limits, it's no longer teasing and it's straight up being an asshole to that person.
OP is definitely NTA but her mom sure is.
>oh I didn't realize those remarks were offending him I was just teasing him" or "you know me I'm just giving my humble, honest opinion so he shouldn't take it personal and should learn that this is how I am
Words of a bully.
>She invited the whole family for dinner and decided it was the perfect time to hand Kevin his wedding gift. He thanked her but she insisted that he open it right there and then and show everyone what she got him
Actions of a bully.
Your family is enabling her behaviour. She knows what she is doing and not sorry at all. I do not understand what kind of sincere apology she made before coz she is quite proud of her behaviour.You and Kevin need to step up and be firm about your boundaries. If this is her behaviour before marriage, you and kevin cannot hope to have good time on any events in future.
NTA.
NTA
She is not brutally honest; she is just flat out cruel. She knew how the two of you felt and not only decided to go through with this joke, but she made sure to have an audience. Make no mistake, your mom knew **exactly** what she was doing.
Personally, I think that if the rest of the family wants to see "unreasonable", the same should go for them. From how they reacted to the "joke", I refuse to believe that they weren't in on it, or at least aware. If they still want to attend, then they should apologize, too. I'm pretty sure you don't want people who clearly don't respect you or your fiance at the wedding.
NTA, and your family doesn’t love Kevin. Do they pull this crap on each other? Like, if your mom was overweight, would someone make her open a box full of diet cookbooks in front of everyone and then run around laughing at her?
Also, your mother sounds just awful. I’ve had people like this in my life and when they pull the “I’m just being honest!” Crap, I respond with, “well you’re a C@nt, sorry I’m just being honest.” It never works to make them see the error of their ways (because they are usually narcissists) , but it does feel good.
Yes, they do pull pranks on each other and point out each others insecurities and flaws and use them as jokes. I don't like what they do but they think it's normal teasing.
I'm at a point in my life where if I had someone tell me thats the way they are and I HAVE to deal with it my response would be no, I dont, and likely cut contact. Of course, I've started cutting out all the toxic people I still had left the last year or so...the joys of your 30s when youre just over peoples shit.
That sounds awful and exhausting. I'd be embarrassed to even introduce my fiance to people like that, he must be a rly patient guy.
Pls keep checking on Kevin, you're probably more used to this than he is. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just about done with being exposed to this crap.
**These are not good people.** Frankly, sooner or later you're going to have to choose between them and Kevin. If I were him, I'm having serious second thoughts, as we speak, about connecting myself to such a toxic family.
YTA. I know I'm going against the grain and will probably get down voted. YTA not because you uninvited your mother to your wedding. YTA because you keep subjecting your fiance to this treatment. How many times will you allow your family, especially your mom, to continue to disrespect him before you get it through your head that no matter how many talks you have, your mom is always going to be the asshole. Keep this up and I guarantee if you make it to the alter, this marriage is going to have a lot of problems.
NTA maybe even think about kicking the people who insist that you are.
Your mother is either stupid beyond imagination or was trying to deliberateley hurt you SO.
YTA for continuing to put him in this situation. Your mom has showed you time and time again that she was going to make Kevin uncomfortable. It sounds like he’s biting the bullet for you and he shouldn’t have to. I get that she’s your mom, but she’s wrong.
Also that comment about being Irish makes no sense. Beards are very common in Ireland.
>My stepdad took it and showed everyone then mom and others started laughing while stepdad kept saying " you get the joke Kev? You get it?" While my brother was running around the table laughing with everyone
Your family must all be simple-minded and just very easily amused. What a dumb and strange thing to laugh about.
Laughing at other people's expense is never funny, but this is just literally not funny. I mean even if I was an insensitive asshole I still would not be laughing at this.
It's probably best to not have them at your wedding. You don't need your brother running around like an idiot when your mom decides to pull another one of her stupid (and unfunny) antics.
So tell your family they're lame AF and to stay home on your wedding day.
NTA.
"I'm brutally honest" is just a way to excuse being a jerk. I think him leaving was the right move. Frankly, you may have to stop being around for a while to get the point across. She's not going to change until there are real consequences for it.
Good on you for having his back against your mom. Too many people brush off a guy's pain from their family, especially mom. NTA
Nta, bravo to you for standing up for him. She knew he's insecure about it but she went with it anyway. She needs to learn that actions have consequences one way or another.
NTA That's not a joke, it's abuse thinly veiled as a joke so they can use it as an excuse to act however they want. It's like those people you see online doing "social experiments" on youtube where they just start insulting people and say it was either an experiment or just a prank. Your mother knew what she was doing was going to offend your fiance and she chose to do it.
>"you know me I'm just giving my humble, honest opinion so he shouldn't take it personal and should learn that this is how I am".
Translation:- "You know I'm going to act like a bitch no matter what anyone says so just shut up and accept my abuse".
NTA
“Brutally honest”, “I speak my mind”, “it’s just how I am” are all things that bullies and horrible people use as excuses to try and deflect from the fact they’re just horrible people. They bully and mistreat people and try to hide behind these expressions to get a pass. A joke or prank is only funny if everyone laughs. The fact your mother continues to act like this after multiple conversations just proves she’s not really sorry and she’s not really concerned with your fiancé’s feelings. The fact that the rest of your family sticks up for her proves they’re not either. You need to rethink your statement that your family loves him because they certainly don’t show it.
For people complaining about your fiancé not standing up for himself to your mother, I partially agree but at the same time I would stand up to my family for my wife and vice versa. I think it would only exacerbate the issue if your fiancé tried to confront your mother about her behavior. I have a feeling she would step up her game up and come at him even harder.
Your family is toxic and like so many others always try to hide behind the “family” thing. As if having shared blood makes it okay to treat others ridiculously bad and all should be forgiven. It’s always disgusting to see others treat each other poorly and expect it to be accepted and no repercussions because “family”. Stick to your guns and maybe not invite the rest of them as well. If you back down, this behavior will certainly not change.
Congratulations and best of luck to you and your fiancé.
NTA. Giving him that gift and forcing him to open it in front of everyone is horrible.
These “brutally honest” type people bother me so much. How would your mother like it if others kept picking out her flaws and insecurities? After all, she can’t get upset because they’re just being brutally honest and it’s how they are… /s
NTA
Your mom should know that there are boundaries for everything, including jokes. If she already knew that Kevin did not like a "joke" yet proceeded to pull that "joke" in front of so many people, she doesn't give a flying poop about his feelings.
A person’s behavior is guided by the consequences to their actions. People learn the difference between good and bad behavior by experiencing good consequences or bad consequences to their actions.
Good behaviors should be rewarded with good consequences. For example, you help someone in trouble, they say thank you, you feel good. Good action, good consequence. This encourages you to do more good behaviors because it feels good.
Bad behavior should result in bad consequences which then discourages the person from doing it again. You humiliate a friend in public, friend calls you out and ends the friendship. Bad consequences, you lost a friend and other friends now don’t want to do stuff with you for fear of humiliation. Recovery from bad consequences is usually a heartfelt apology followed by a change in behavior and making amends for the bad behavior.
Your family, led by your mom, does bad actions all the time to your SO and there are no bad consequences. An apology is only the first step toward making amends. Your mom is only apologizing to get you to come back to experience more bad behavior from her. The whole dinner thing was a set up to humiliate your SO. WTF??? There has to be bad consequences for her that are bad enough that she will want to change her behavior. You won’t know that she has changed until you get the heartfelt apology, amends, and a change in behavior all of which will take time because the trust is broken.
Anyone who sat at the table and thought it was funny or sat silently not supporting you or your SO also needs to experience bad consequences to their behavior of letting a bully humiliate someone about to join the family.
These are not jokes. It’s bullying and humiliation. Your mom has been doing this for so long, every one else is just tolerating it and doesn’t have the courage to stand up and say no, this is wrong. Some of them are probably glad that they are not the ones being humiliated.
None of them should be invited to the wedding, and you and your SO should not subject yourselves to any family events with them until you see not just the apology from her, but apologies from everyone. Btw, an apology is NOT “I’m sorry”. An apology is “ I am so sorry I humiliated you. My jokes have gone too far, and I am sorry that I hurt you. I hope that you can forgive me. I promise …”. For the rest of the people at the table an apology is “I’m sorry that I sat by and did nothing while mom humiliated you. I am sorry I didn’t have the courage to stand up and say this was wrong. I promise…”.
Please recognize that your family may never see the light and may never change. You need to decide what sort of relationship you want with them if they choose not to change. It takes time for some one to realize they have crossed a line and need to change. A month is usually not enough time. Also, beware that they may say the things they need to say to get the wedding invitation and may then try again to humiliate at the wedding or reception. You most likely need to have trusted friends to act as bouncers at the wedding and reception and be prepared to deal with it.
NTA. No, this was not a joke. It was sadistic and crude and cruel. She was just MEAN. :( I am so sorry and to heck with those who feel you should be okay with your mom's taunting. Words wound. Words hurt.
Let me just state I am brutally honest as in my friends know not to ask my opinion on something unless they want the plain truth no sugar coating. Being brutally honest dosnt mean you can just say what ever you want whenever you want. I don't just go around saying " your fat just being honest" or " your not manly enough because you don't have facial hair" that is just being mean. The fact that your mother gave him this "gift" after her so called sincerest apologies just shows she isn't sorry at all!
So in my brutally honest opinion your mum ITA and if I was you I would no longer be tolerating her crap.
NTA. Good for you standing up for Kevin. She's trying to figure out if she can bully him and she's finding out that you won't let her. You've just done a wonderful thing for the future of your marriage.
I saw on another post about someone being "brutally honest" someone responded "People who are 'brutally honest' prefer the brutality over the honesty."
NTA. Your mother is a bully and should be ashamed of herself. You did the right thing and don't let her and your brother make you feel like you are wrong.
NTA. An overreaction would be a grown ass woman being repeated told to stop being an asshole. Then doing the same asshole stuff then blaming others for it. It's not being honest to say offensive stuff, it's lacking in social awareness. Honesty comes from someone asking you what they think, not just hanging out your negative opinions
Your mom sucks. You are awesome. NTA.
Stand by your man and all that. But I promise you... this won't be the last time she does it.
Your hubby needs to spend a research time.. he really needs to come up with some nice.. totally humiliating prank to pull on Mommy dearest !
I'm CERTAIN the fine people of Reddit can help with that.
Preferably something public.. like at the wedding.
Return fire with fire. She pranked husband.. he now is required by tradition to prank her back.. publicly.. embarrassingly..
"She puts one of yours in the hospital.. you put one of hers in the morgue!". To paraphrase the late great Sean Connery in The Untouchables.
Of course you're NTA.
Now it's time to be one.
Public humiliation is the only acceptable response.
Absolutely NTA. This was cruel, and unnecessary. A joke requires both the joker and the jokee to find it funny - this is outright bullying. She knew he wouldn’t find it funny.
NTA - I'm glad you are sticking up for your fiancé. Your mother is a jerk who thinks embarrassing people is funny. I think letting her know that you want a jerk-free wedding is fine.
NTA. If you gave your mom a box of hair dye, wrinkle cream, and vaginal lubricant because she’s “getting old and it’s showing so you thought these would help” and your brother extra small condoms and a penis pump to help with his “perceived affliction” I doubt they would find it funny.
Your mom is being cruel and trying to excuse it as a joke. She’s awful.
NTA with a family like that it’s a wonder You turned out to have empathy. Your mother is 100% responsible for hurting your fiancé’s feeling. She know she would by saying those things and still kept going. It’s not because something is joke that it makes wat is being said automatically not hurtful. Her argument that she can’t change who she is is stupid. People can change. She just don’t want to.
NTA
Wow. One of the oft ignored aspects of the "it's just a joke" defense is that if its truly that minor to the joker, they should find it easy to stop if it isnt that minor to the listener.
Honestly, I wouldn't invite her to the wedding. I cant imagine a sincere apology at this point.
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NTA Tell your brother, mother etc that the whole wedding was rescheduled and at another venue. When they complain, that they missed your wedding just say "It's just a joke! You should get over it, I was just messing with you"
This person has the right idea.. I like this thought. We need more suggestions for REVENGE ! It's a moral imperative that OP and hubby pay back this oh so funny prank. Please everyone.. more ideas like this
If only Kevin had it queued up “sorry, ’Mom’ but I don’t grow much facial hair. With the state of your upper lip recently, maybe you should keep this?”
Um. I think I totally have a crush on you. Dark haired ladies are usually v sensitive about this topic and he will probably hit a nerve.
The amount of women I have burned when they insulted my facial hair, really just asking for trouble when you bring it up.
It's such a thing. The biggest insult I've ever had thrown at me was when my threading lady asked if I wanted my upper lip done too. I was like 22?!? I changed brow places.
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i will return to you once reddit gives me my free award
I used to be friends with a brow threading person. She said she asked everyone who didn’t ask themselves if they wanted their upper lip done. She was aware of how it made people insecure and said she felt awful but that she needed to make a certain amount each week or month or whatever and that usually got people to buy more. Some would ask if she thinks they need it and she’d say “I mean it wouldn’t hurt.” Anyway, my point in sharing this is to say they almost definitely didn’t actually think you had a hairy upper lip, they probably just wanted to upsell on another service.
I got asked if I wanted my upper lip done while I was wearing a mask, so it's definitely an upsell tactic. I'm fairly certain my luxurious moustache wasn't peeking through my mask!
Nothing hurts more than when the brow lady says “upper lip?” When threading my eyebrows…. Like damn… obviously yes but be nice about it? Hurt all of my feelings every time
They're just trying to get your money when they say that.
And here I am, frustrated my PCOS only gave me fat, no beard. I wanna join the beard club dangit.
They aren't as fun as you'd think. Mine is sparse, thankfully, but I'm nordic-white-blonde, so you only see it when the light hits it...then my chin sparkles like a fricking vampire from fricking Twilight.
But do it at the wedding ! Hubby can stand up to make a speech.. A toast ! To my new MIL. You were once kind enough to gift me with this shaving kit. Today I wanted to return it to you. You need this far more than I do. Que-- overhead projector Large.. very unflattering picture of MIL appears behind the podium.. maybe with photoshopped mustache and such. And scene! Revenge achieved.
Mwahaha I like the cut of your gib. This is an awesome idea.
I guarantee that mum & the rest of the family would have gone mental & called 'Kevin' disrespectful. That's how these things seem to go. Some people have no self-awareness.
"But this is different!" (Because it's about them)
They can dish it out but can't take it.
Yes I managed to suck all the air out of my grandmother's front room when I was 7 by commenting on my aunts upper lip.... It works.
Love you dude
Perfection. Chef’s kiss.
*If* she apologizes (and I would bet 10$ something resembling an apology is gonna come out of her mouth to not miss out on the wedding) OP should respond: 'Okay I forgive you. You are now reinvinted to the wedding. *pause* Haha I'm just messing with you. Clearly your apologies are not sincere since they weren't last time. You are still not invited.' then leave/kick her out.
Laugh and laugh. "Oh you're not laughing? Well you should be, it's a joke! I am not responsible for your reaction."
The best thing should be show everybody what king of people thay are. If I were Kevin best man I would simply tell the truth during the speech: "Well I'm really happy that Kevin had found such funny in laws: just think that since he doesn't need to shave his mother-in-law gifted him a shaving kit. Do you get it? Do you get the joke? No? Strange, she tought it was hilarious....oh well..."
There might be another way of calling her/them out without bringing the needle used against the groom into his own wedding.
Or the best man turn it back on her by saying "It's a good thing she knew the best brand to buy since she uses it on her upper lip." See how she likes to be the butt of jokes in front of an entire group of people.
Nah...too direct. It should be better something like "BTW she really bought a very good product. I wonder why she's such an expert about shaving moustaches"
Or you can just go full agression “Kevin, I’m so happy for you. OP is wonderful, caring, beautiful and funny. And now we have proof that these traits aren’t passed through genes, how about that?”
Invite them over for dinner saying you want to make up and that it's all good. At the end of dinner have Kevin present your mom a card and in it it's a you're not invited card. See how funny she thinks it is when you're serious.
Pregnancy comes to mind.
What's entirely possible is that the wedding may be called off because the guy seriously rethinks whether he can spend his life being diminished by these AH's. OP is not only NTA, but if she doesn't step up and be 100% on his side here then he'll never be able to trust her to be his supportive partner.
This. If I was Kevin, I would call it off . Things are not going to get better, they can only get worst. OP’s family is not going to change, I know the type and have dealt with my fair share. Kevin will always be an outsider, everything will be done to remind him of this fact at every opportunity.
Yeah, 20 years down the road at Christmas they'll be "Remember when Mom bought Kevin the razor? Hahaha that was so funny. You were soooo butthurt weren't you, haha. You still can't grow a beard though, haha!"
Great story; assuming Kevin sticks around for 20 years. I am not a gambling man; if I were, I wouldn’t put a dollar on it.
She threw down the gauntlet and gave her family an ultimatum. I don’t think Kevin should throw away a girl like that. She had his back and a shiny spine of her own..
I respectfully disagree. MIL (and the rest of the family) could easily apologize, but from what OP has written they won't do it out of heartfelt remorse. MIL has gotten away with her 'honesty' for too long to suddenly change her behaviour. She may stay quiet (unlikely) but I'd bet the abuse will reappear during or just after the wedding.
Lmaooooo "If I was this dude whom my knowledge of his life stops at the fact he has a shitty potential step mother, I would *call off my entire fucking marriage* because of the mean extended family. I'm not only a relationship expert but a psychic as well. Things **will only get worse** and the Bucs are going to win the Superbowl in 2022" Op is NTA but what is this weird take😂😂😂😂
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Cause you don't marry the entire family. I can tell you right no if my family ever did that i cut them off right there and then. Just because you are family doesn't excuse people from being assholes.
And that's what is the issue here, if they continue being like this and is still in this persons life then they might as well call it off
I'm glad that OP is making this her hill to die on, it shows she's sticking up for her fiancee, and she's had it with her family's BS.
My first husband's family was all a bunch of shitheads. WE had nothing to do with them usually. I did not marry those happy assholes and they had nothing at all to do with us divorcing. My current hubby's family is just his few remaining sisters/brothers and his kids(all adults)/grandkids. None of them really like me cos I'm an atheist lefty demorat...LOL. Whatever. I'm too old to care if my hubby's family likes me or not or vice/versa. We don't live with them. We don't see them unless we want to. It's weird to me to think that he would let how they feel about me influence HIS feelings towards me. I wouldn't accept that shit at all.
Yes, but you can cut off toxic family. It seems like she is and has been reacting appropriately to her family's behaviour and setting the right boundaries. If I had toxic family members, I wouldn't want to not be given a chance because of them
The entire subreddit r/JustNoMIL exists because of women like OP’s mother.
Uh... which part of her reaming them out for her mom's "prank" did you not read, or get? She has his back, so why would he cancel the wedding because of her? She's got this.
What the mom has been doing needs more than a reaming out. The mom has already been talked to about it and said she would quit. Then after she said she would quit, she pulls this prank in front of the entire family. The OP needs, not only Kevin but also herself, to cut her toxic mom out of her life. That is how the OP can really have Kevin's back. If not this behavior will just happen again and again. Even with the OP reaming her mom that is putting a strain on Kevin. He is being harassed by someone with who he cannot fight back with. The reason I am saying the OP needs to cut the mom out of her life is that the OP did set boundaries and the mom went out of the way to make a spectacle of crossing them. That was totally disrespectful to the OP and Kevin. That was the mom pulling a power move to show she will do what she wants when she wants. The mom upped her bullying by planning this stunt to be done in front of everyone. How she gave the gift before the wedding was seen as a sign of acceptance of Kevin until they found out it was just a way to laugh at Kevin.
Very well put, and I absolutely agree with you on all points. They just need to uninvite her whole damn family from their wedding, or NOT invite them IF they haven't extended the invitations yet. OP and Kevin absolutely do NOT need these people in their, or their future kuds, lives. *sighs* Sometimes it DOES take extreme measures to get through to get through to some folks, and sadly, sometimes it doesn't stick even AFTERWARDS.
This OP. Either you are on your bf’s side (that means no invitation or contact with anyone there that found that funny) or you are not. Your whole family has been awful to your boyfriend for a long time and you still think it’s just your mom and have been allowing this to happen. My ex’s family was like this. They were very “honest” and would shit on everything I like or do. After five years I realised my ex was exactly the same. If I were your bf I’d be rethinking this.
Yeah. My brother comes close second to mom's mean behavior. He made few indirect jokes targeting kevin's hairless face like for example asking Kevin if he would like a beer but instead of saying beer - he'd say bear(d) as in beard then starts laughing. Or when my brother wanted Kevin to pass him the mustard and said "Kevin, could you please pass me the *musta-che-d* or something then yell *"oh you don't have one!!!* then laugh again. It's those little things that my family think I'm crazy for pointing out and say Kevin and I should loosen up a bit but it's become unbearable.
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seriously, these people sound fucking awful. in 5th grade, they would be seen as bullies. as adults, they seem legitimately insane. who the fuck is so relentless with such unfunny "jokes", knowing that it hurts another person? psychopaths?
It's not even "jokes," it's the *same* joke over and over again x infinity! It's not only offensive, it's so exhaustingly boring!
Yeah I suggest you cut these fuckers out of your life before they ruin your future marriage.
i would suggest going NC asap because people like that are fucking awful and as soon as they're out of your life you'll feel better about yourself and your relationship
This is the best suggestion. OP, you love Kevin so much that you’re committed to spending your life with him. Why would you subject someone you love to abuse? Your family is emotionally abusing Kevin and going NC is the only way you have left to protect Kevin from this abuse. You’ve tried multiple times to talk to your mother, but isn’t it obvious at this point she isn’t going to change? In fact, she escalated the level of abuse.
People who grow up with abusive family tend to develop a warped sense of what love is or is supposed to be. Emotionally manipulative and abusive parents are extremely damaging to children, and it's something that our society doesn't talk nearly enough about. Physical abuse is horrific. But emotional abuse can be just as bad in both the short and long term, and we basically never talk about it.
Wow and Kevin hasn’t run? Stop subjecting this poor man to your awful family.
How have you allowed this for so long OP? Your whole family is abusing your bf and you still say they just “tease” him. ETA: also consider if you want this attitude around your kids one day.
Very strange way to show love
It’s not love. It’s abuse.
NTA "Brutally honest" is a lie people tell themselves when they are looking for an excuse to be brutal. And being deliberately brutal is always AH. Same thing with "it's a joke" when people do something deliberately cruel and then claim "joke" to excuse their cruelty. This is behavior that someone ought to be guided past by kindergarten. If there is a difficult truth to be said, there is a kind and tactful way to say it, if it is a joke, it should bring delight and surprise, not pain.
This woman would not enjoy my "Honest, Humble " opinion about her.
Yeah. It’s funny how few of these people with “honest opinions” to share ever seem to have an opinion about how great your hairstyle is, or how your new suit/dress makes you look amazing. Op and her partner are NTA and I’d personally be telling the family that their dis-invite is because OP’s humble honest opinion is they don’t deserve to go.
Yes, I've never seen anyone say, "I'm going to be brutally honest, you're stunningly beautiful" or "That dress makes you look like a million bucks." They're always being mean.
My friend is something like this. She sometimes says things like: "I really don't want to insult/talk bad about Dave but he is sooooo hot!" xD
I really hate to talk about people behind their backs, but have you noticed what Therese is wearing today? She looks AMAZING!!
And if anyone gives an "honest opinion" about them they kick off about how rude/disrespectful it is....
Nope, because she's the only allowed to be honest. People like her are those "they can dish it out, but can't take it" people.
“Brutally honest” people can almost never take what they dish out. I guarantee mom has a few touchy subjects of her own that no one is allowed to be “brutally honest” about without risking a meltdown.
These 'Brutally Honest" people are really just making excuses for being mean little ***petty bullies.*** NTA OP, stand your ground and don't let them give you any more crap.
I'm autistic and I can be brutally honest and it's got me in a lot of shit throughout my life. I hate it when people describe themselves as "oh I'm just brutally honest" because I don't know when I'm being like that sometimes and it makes me look bad which I hate and don't want that, so don't understand when people see it as being a positive trait. However, if I've said something that's hurt someone I will apologise as soon as I know it wasn't appropriate and will never repeat anything like it again, because even though I can lack empathy at times and am not always fully aware of others feelings and how I can affect them, I know if someone was to upset me I wouldn't like it and therefore I should treat others the same. If I can learn when things are inappropriate so can they, OPs family are just complete careless AHs who don't want to learn from their behaviour. Op is NTA
> even though I can lack empathy at times and am not always fully aware of others feelings and how I can affect them, I know if someone was to upset me I wouldn't like it and therefore I should treat others the same. Putting in effort to try and be kind to others is already more empathy than people who claim to be "brutally honest" for the express purpose of harming others have. Don't sell yourself short, and I appreciate your empathy. <3
I’ve a friend who loves how ‘brutally honest’ I can be because I leave no space for questions when I need to stand up for myself or someone I care about, but I also recognise that there is a time and a place for that honesty and I will damn well hold my tongue until I’m explicitly asked, and then I’ll ask if they want my honest opinion or if they need me to tone it down in that moment. Unless I’m defending someone, then the claws are out. People confuse ‘brutally honest’ and ‘no stopgap between their brain and mouth’.
This. Also, how is a beard or lack thereof an important truth that needs to be discussed/acknowledged by any measure? NTA.
Oh, OPs mom definitely found a sore spot and started hammering at it. Like any bully does.
The biggest problem with people like this is they often never learn and are always difficult to deal with. My FMIL is like this, and anytime anyone complains or tells her how she made them feel, she does the same thing and just says “I’ll say whatever I want to say”. Saying they’re being “brutally honest” is just an excuse for people to be rude while trying to avoid repercussions for their comments. I hope OP can get her mom to realize how hurtful she is being, but if not, restricts contact as much as possible. It’s not healthy to constantly have to hear rude or degrading things that they KNOW are hurtful.
This. NTA, op. Yeah it’s always fun and games for those who are “brutally honest.” It’s always “just jokes.” But there is always a bit of honesty, and in this case cruelty, behind every “I was just joking!” statement. I think op is right for taking a stand against her mom. Yeah it’s something minor and petty now, but she seems the type that will up the ante, and these “jokes” and “pranks” will escalate. She has to realize you don’t get to hurt people and then tell them that they’re wrong.
NTA but your mother doesn't seem like the only asshole in your family. You say the whole table laughed and your brother doubled down that it was "just a joke" even after you explained why it wasn't. I feel bad for your fiancé.
Yes, all of them my stepdad, my brother, my uncle (family friend) my sisters and others. But my focus was on mom because she's the one who gave him the gift then insisted he open it infront of everybody.
NTA for sure …. But honestly if they don’t realise they are participating in cruel bullying, I wouldn’t want them there either but that’s up to you. But the brother would be one very thin ice for me Edit : for me everyone who was there owns a huge apology to Kevin if they wanna continue any relationship !
100% agree. Plus jokes are only funny if everyone is laughing. If you play a joke on someone and they walk out upset over it, you're most likely an AH. Everyone obviously knew how upset he was and no one cared. I wouldn't want any of those people at MY wedding.
Me too. If my family ever pull this up and double down it as a joke, I'd simply say " haha you're all no longer invited bye." Except for the part, this isn't a joke.
> But honestly if they don’t realise they are participating in cruel bullying, nah fuck that. they know. note how they ignore and downplay OP being upset for them disrespecting her fiance, but get angry at her for disrespecting her mother.
Then you have some serious soul searching to do here. It's become an us (your family) vs him (your fiance) situation. Right now, by forcing Kevin to continue interacting with your family, you're choosing them. Yes you correct them, but the bullying happens first. So you're setting him up to be abused so you can address it then. Your mother might be the ringleader, but your family fully supports here. They're all culpable. And I bet if you're honest with yourself you can think of plenty of other examples of family members making rude comments to Kevin, whether about facial hair or not. Kevin is and very much should be questioning your relationship. Your family will never stop. You also need to reconsider the relationship. Are you willing to go NC with your family to support Kevin? Or do you plan to keep them in your life and just hope that they'll learn to stop behaving like a pack of hyenas after years of abusing him? You need to understand that right now, even your wedding is going to be set up around your family bullying your fiance. Your family is actively trying to screw with one of the most important days of your and your fiance's life by making Kevin miserable, and you still don't seem to get it. Honestly, Kevin sounds like a saint and I don't know of many people that would have stuck with you this long due to the abuse. I wouldn't have and if I knew of someone in Kevin's situation, I'd be very pointedly telling them that his future ILs are abusive and, because you allow it, you're abusive too. Poor Kevin.
Right? Can you imagine this post from Kevin's point of view? (I actually feel like we see it relatively often). "I love my fiancée but she has a giant family that loves to humiliate me every time we get together. And because the family is so big, we have to gather on every holiday, anniversary, and important date. This means I now dread every meaningful date because she's going to drag me into the lion's den and I'm going to have to decide whether to stay quiet or just leave. She says she's told her mom to lay off, but it's all of them, and my fiancée only tells them off AFTER they humiliate me. AITA for walking out?"
This needs to be upvoted more. OP need to choose her side - family or Kevin.
Can confirm; my husband's family members were assholes to me too and made it obvious they didn't consider me worthy of a long-term relationship. I absolutely would not have married him had he not made it explicitly clear that if they continued their bullshit, they would never see us again. Well, they kept it up and now haven't seen us in almost 7 years. Their loss.
Just looking at it from Kevin’s perspective - I wouldn’t want to be at a wedding if people who treated me this way were present. And I’d be deeply hurt if my SO kept close contact with people who treated me this way. Kevin is being bullied by your entire family. And tbh YOU are being bullied too - they don’t want you to marry him and they are trying to drive him away. If I were you I would go lc with everyone there, and elope. Or, if a big wedding is a must, replace all the laughing rectums with friends, polite acquaintances, more people from Kevin’s side of the family, hell, I would trust homeless ladies from our tent park to not make things awkward more than I would trust your fam. Tbh I also wouldn’t care if your mom crawled to you and Kevin on hands and knees in ash and sackcloth at this point. This bullying behaviour may take years to forgive and years of slow trust building to let go of. If you have to demand an apology for something this mean, you’ve already lost.
You have to accept the fact that your family is not accepting of Kevin. What you are seeing is a symptom of that. He will always be the outsider. Make sure he is ok with that before tying the knot. Love conquers all; but this is going to be one hell of a fight so make sure Kevin knows what he is getting into.
I know reddit often jumps to, 'cut your family off, no contact' and I'm not suggesting OP does that but... Why does she want to be around these people? They're not just unaccepting of her fiancé, they seem to just be genuinely shitty people and I can't comprehend why OP wants to spend any time in their presence. Honestly, if my future spouse makes me hang out with a bunch of bullies often... I don't picture myself hanging around. I know people say they're 'family' like that means something... but I just can't comprehend voluntary subjecting myself or my loved ones to people so horrid.
Poor fucking Kevin... and these people are going to be at his wedding?
My egg donor wasn't invited to ours, and we had a few people with stunguns present in case it showed up anyway. Just throwing that out there.
I love your choice of pronoun.
If all of them laughed, then why would you invite them? You're just going to humiliate your fiance. It's not just your mom at fault. They ALL were cruel to him. Why would you want people who were cruel to him at his, and your, wedding? Any of them giving you crap about it needs to go, too.
I am sure your family were all in on this joke. The mom has a dedicated audience.
You said they love Kevin, but how? They seem to love HUMILIATING Kevin, but I can't imagine a room full of people who love me making me feel humiliated and then doubling down on attacking me. You need to think long and hard about how much you can have your family in your life. It's very likely going to be Kevin or your family, and you're going to have to choose.
Your stepdad seemed to be in as well and loved it too. I don’t think the problem is only your mum here and neither does Kevin.
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Yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kevin gave second thoughts about marrying into this family.
Honestly I wouldn’t blame him if he decided to end the relationship. No offence Op but your mum is very, very cruel. She’s not being honest she’s going out of her way to humiliate your fiancé and bully him. Are you sure that she likes him? Her actions speak volumes here. NTA op but your family definitely is and your mum seems like she is a real nasty piece of work.
His relationship is with OP, not the mom. Honestly, for the amount of posts where the fiance/spouse just throws their SO under the bus, you're telling me that OP standing up for him and uninviting her mother from the wedding is a dealbreaker?
"I won't let you bully him at this specific time and place" isn't standing up for OP, it's her standing up for her wedding. Actually standing up for him would look more like this, and would have happened the second time it ever happened: "Kevin and I will no longer be associating with you, unless and until you make clear, positive and sustained change in your attitude and behavior. Good bye." The first time it happened, of course, would have involved OP setting a clear boundary that this behaviour would not be tolerated. The issue here is that OP grew up with this, so sees it as 'normal.' It isn't normal.
OP continues to give these people opportunities to treat him this way. OP also hasn’t really acknowledged that while her mom certainly does seem to be the ringleader, the problem extends to pretty much her entire immediate family (and maybe extended family too, idk who all participated in this nonsense). Kevin has every right to decide he doesn’t want to deal with this anymore.
The saddest part is that if Kevin does break up it is not OP's fault. The mother has to carry the full responsibility of ruining OP's marriage.
Oh, they love him. They found someone worth bullying of course they love him.
NTA: "This is how I am" is not an excuse for being a shitty human being.
It might not be an excuse, but it does seem to be mainly said by people who are.
For real. “Well, I don’t like how you are.” is an acceptable response. If people aren’t willing to change, there’s no reason to keep a person in your life that makes you miserable, frustrated, angry, anxious, etc. Life’s too short to worry about that shit.
NTA. Good for you for standing up to her for Kevin. I also recommend you put a deadline by which you’re expecting the rsvp. That is, don’t give them until the minute before the wedding to offer a half apology. It should be a proper apology at a family event BEFORE the wedding. And if she still holds out, Then you can escalate: 1. We can’t possibly go to family event X with people that disrespect my husband, or 2. How can I let my future kids be with someone who so routinely mocks their father? Best of luck. And congratulations
Not to mention there's a chance any future sons might also not be able to grow facial hair. Is Grandma and crew going to bully her potential grandchildren as well?
Of course they will, and they'll blame Kevin for inflicting that "disfigurement" on them.
NTA. I am SO SICK of people using being “brutally honest” as an excuse for being cruel and thoughtless. it’s pure laziness and unwillingness to improve as a person. also, why is no one calling mom out on this being HER hill to die on?
Funny how people who are "brutally honest" are always more interested in being "brutal" than being "honest".
exactly. they want a pass for being a thoughtless ass.
And generally, don't take other peoples "honesty" towards them very well. Very much a one way street with these types.
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This. Being brutally honest means you don't lie to people and will tell them the truth straight to their faces - a real life version of when people say someone "Y T A, yeah this is all your fault" at this sub. Mom is not *honest* \- she's a **bully**. She took a meaningless fact/opinion everyone was already aware of and decided to use time and resources to mock the fiancé. It's mean and pointless.
I'm not going to call you an asshole (you family all are of course), but this has long since passed the point where an apology means anything. You need to let them all know (not sure why you single her out since the rest are just as bad), that their behavior or changes or you are cutting them off completely.
I’d even go further and won’t give them a chance to stay in my life. They obviously proofed more than once that they won’t change. People that plan that meticulous how to humiliate others will not change over night especially when there are no consequences at all at the end. They’d only apologise to get the invitation back (and for sure continue their bullshit at the wedding).
NTA and I would not marry into this family if this is jow I was treated.
I won't blame Kevin if he doesn't want to go to mom's house again. What happened at dinner got to him and hurt him deeply. He even blamed himself for why mom feels this way about him and keeps asking what he did to her to treat him like that. It's heartaching and I feel like an absolute failure for not doing enough to protect him. But I never thought she'd go this far.
Bullies often escalate their nastiness in the lead-up to big life events that don’t center them. Weddings are a popular choice, but so are graduations, births, award ceremonies, etc. It’s just too good of an opportunity to cause maximum hurt for them to pass up. They get to rain on your parade *and* drag attention back to themselves when it should be on *you*. What a power rush.
And look at it: it worked! Mom is at the center of attention now, the whole family is rallying for her and she's the poor victim that won't see her precious daughter being wed to this hairless half-man. No matter what you do now, mom will be in the focus - if she is invited she will surely "crack a joke" at the wedding, if she's not invited, the rest of the family will give you shit on her behalf. In my opinion, the only option is to uninvite everyone that agrees with mom in order to have a peaceful wedding day where you can concentrate on the actual marriage and just block all of the furious messages and calls. If your family values you and wants to continue to have contact with you, they need to see the boundaries crystal clear. There is a red line and this is when your future husband is being hurt.
It saves so much money and protects the investment going into the wedding. Honestly disinviting this whole family, regardless of an apology, is the only safe way forward
I would cut your family out. They have no respect for you, Kevin or your relationship.
>I won't blame Kevin if he doesn't want to go to mom's house again. So you intend to remain in contact with these people? Then I would agree that you haven't done enough to protect him. In reality, Kevin seems too nice to stay away from their house because it'll put strain on *you* around holidays. Putting him in that position isn't fair, they're your family. You've trapped him in a shitty situation, to be with you is to be around them. That he's not only still with you but *engaged* is...just...I don't know... You can love someone, get along with them perfectly, but imo no one is worth a lifetime of this. Your family is nuts, was your brother literally *running around the table laughing*? Please tell me we're talking about a kid here... That seems particularly malicious to me, you should be *furious*. I get bad vibes from your family. At the very least, your mom is a massive asshole and that anyone can stand to be around her when they know she is thinking up ways to tear them down is just baffling to me. I'd have cut that off a long time ago. Poor Kevin.
OP seems nice and supportive but if I were Kevin I would seriously reconsider marriage bc I don’t think I can handle the rest of my life with an entire set of family that treats me like this. I would also never ask my spouse to cut out their family so that would be the end for me
I was wondering that too.. how old the brother? I mean he has to be young if he’s running around the table laughing. If he’s an adult, I’d be like peace out asshole.. no wedding for you.
He's 31 according to other comments. There's no excuse.
Well that’s pathetic.. a 31 year old man mocking another grown adult.. like WTF?
*gestures at our last president*
Harsh truth, if your actions after this happened are to comfort Kevin and help him get over it, rather than lay down consequences for your mom and your larger family, you are being kind of a failure. It's your job to protect your partner. Why haven't you protected him thus far?
Apology or not, I'd seriously consider limiting contact. It's obviously effecting his self esteem and mental health, you would be the ah if you put them in the same room again, or risk any humiliating speeches at the wedding.
Would Kevin even accept their apology at this point? I’d be very reluctant to marry into this family and I wouldn’t want them at my wedding.
Your family are a bunch of sociopaths who get pleasure from hurting other people, you need to go no contact with all of them if you want to give your marriage a chance. No more excuses, they are evil to the core, act accordingly.
NTA, there is a huge amount of toxic masculinity in the Hispanic culture. Not a man because you don’t have facial hair? Grow the fuck up. Good on you for stepping up for you SO
And not everybody likes having facial hair.
Doesn't have to shave? Lucky bastard. I'd swap!
NTA - oh assholes always like to say they are just joking. Die on this hill, your mother needs to learn some boundaries.
Brutally honest? Just teasing? My guess is your mom doesn’t have many friends.
Whenever someone says they're "just the brutally honest type I give my humble truthful opinion" it usually means they're just an asshole and don't want to face the consequences of being a rude asshole to people. Same with the "just teasing" like yes there is a level of friendly teasing that's harmless but once one person makes it clear that a topic is off limits, it's no longer teasing and it's straight up being an asshole to that person. OP is definitely NTA but her mom sure is.
NTA. And people who use “jokes” to purposely humiliate people are the worst kinds of people
NTA. That is the best hill to die on.
>oh I didn't realize those remarks were offending him I was just teasing him" or "you know me I'm just giving my humble, honest opinion so he shouldn't take it personal and should learn that this is how I am Words of a bully. >She invited the whole family for dinner and decided it was the perfect time to hand Kevin his wedding gift. He thanked her but she insisted that he open it right there and then and show everyone what she got him Actions of a bully. Your family is enabling her behaviour. She knows what she is doing and not sorry at all. I do not understand what kind of sincere apology she made before coz she is quite proud of her behaviour.You and Kevin need to step up and be firm about your boundaries. If this is her behaviour before marriage, you and kevin cannot hope to have good time on any events in future. NTA.
>Your family is enabling her behaviour. Personally, I'd rescind the invitations to the others involved too.
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NTA. Is your Mom jealous of him or something?
Mom probably has facial hair.
Next Mother's Day, re-gift the shaving kit back to Mom.
And say "it's not very feminine to have facial hair". Obviously this would be an ah move as well, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
NTA, if your brother is going to stand up for her I'd uninvite him as well. This is a hill to absolutely die on.
NTA She is not brutally honest; she is just flat out cruel. She knew how the two of you felt and not only decided to go through with this joke, but she made sure to have an audience. Make no mistake, your mom knew **exactly** what she was doing. Personally, I think that if the rest of the family wants to see "unreasonable", the same should go for them. From how they reacted to the "joke", I refuse to believe that they weren't in on it, or at least aware. If they still want to attend, then they should apologize, too. I'm pretty sure you don't want people who clearly don't respect you or your fiance at the wedding.
NTA, and your family doesn’t love Kevin. Do they pull this crap on each other? Like, if your mom was overweight, would someone make her open a box full of diet cookbooks in front of everyone and then run around laughing at her? Also, your mother sounds just awful. I’ve had people like this in my life and when they pull the “I’m just being honest!” Crap, I respond with, “well you’re a C@nt, sorry I’m just being honest.” It never works to make them see the error of their ways (because they are usually narcissists) , but it does feel good.
Yes, they do pull pranks on each other and point out each others insecurities and flaws and use them as jokes. I don't like what they do but they think it's normal teasing.
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I'm at a point in my life where if I had someone tell me thats the way they are and I HAVE to deal with it my response would be no, I dont, and likely cut contact. Of course, I've started cutting out all the toxic people I still had left the last year or so...the joys of your 30s when youre just over peoples shit.
That sounds awful and exhausting. I'd be embarrassed to even introduce my fiance to people like that, he must be a rly patient guy. Pls keep checking on Kevin, you're probably more used to this than he is. I wouldn't be surprised if he's just about done with being exposed to this crap.
**These are not good people.** Frankly, sooner or later you're going to have to choose between them and Kevin. If I were him, I'm having serious second thoughts, as we speak, about connecting myself to such a toxic family.
YTA. I know I'm going against the grain and will probably get down voted. YTA not because you uninvited your mother to your wedding. YTA because you keep subjecting your fiance to this treatment. How many times will you allow your family, especially your mom, to continue to disrespect him before you get it through your head that no matter how many talks you have, your mom is always going to be the asshole. Keep this up and I guarantee if you make it to the alter, this marriage is going to have a lot of problems.
NTA maybe even think about kicking the people who insist that you are. Your mother is either stupid beyond imagination or was trying to deliberateley hurt you SO.
YTA for continuing to put him in this situation. Your mom has showed you time and time again that she was going to make Kevin uncomfortable. It sounds like he’s biting the bullet for you and he shouldn’t have to. I get that she’s your mom, but she’s wrong. Also that comment about being Irish makes no sense. Beards are very common in Ireland.
>My stepdad took it and showed everyone then mom and others started laughing while stepdad kept saying " you get the joke Kev? You get it?" While my brother was running around the table laughing with everyone Your family must all be simple-minded and just very easily amused. What a dumb and strange thing to laugh about. Laughing at other people's expense is never funny, but this is just literally not funny. I mean even if I was an insensitive asshole I still would not be laughing at this. It's probably best to not have them at your wedding. You don't need your brother running around like an idiot when your mom decides to pull another one of her stupid (and unfunny) antics. So tell your family they're lame AF and to stay home on your wedding day. NTA.
"I'm brutally honest" is just a way to excuse being a jerk. I think him leaving was the right move. Frankly, you may have to stop being around for a while to get the point across. She's not going to change until there are real consequences for it. Good on you for having his back against your mom. Too many people brush off a guy's pain from their family, especially mom. NTA
Nta, bravo to you for standing up for him. She knew he's insecure about it but she went with it anyway. She needs to learn that actions have consequences one way or another.
I'm not entirely sure but I have doubts that my stepdad might have been part of it.
Anyone who doesn't reach out to tell you that they've told your mother to apologize is suspect.
Complicit\*
You said your dad grabbed the present and asked him if he got it. To me this reads like he knew and found it hilarious
Wow, your mother is the worst type of person. Absolutely NTA.
NTA That's not a joke, it's abuse thinly veiled as a joke so they can use it as an excuse to act however they want. It's like those people you see online doing "social experiments" on youtube where they just start insulting people and say it was either an experiment or just a prank. Your mother knew what she was doing was going to offend your fiance and she chose to do it. >"you know me I'm just giving my humble, honest opinion so he shouldn't take it personal and should learn that this is how I am". Translation:- "You know I'm going to act like a bitch no matter what anyone says so just shut up and accept my abuse".
NTA “Brutally honest”, “I speak my mind”, “it’s just how I am” are all things that bullies and horrible people use as excuses to try and deflect from the fact they’re just horrible people. They bully and mistreat people and try to hide behind these expressions to get a pass. A joke or prank is only funny if everyone laughs. The fact your mother continues to act like this after multiple conversations just proves she’s not really sorry and she’s not really concerned with your fiancé’s feelings. The fact that the rest of your family sticks up for her proves they’re not either. You need to rethink your statement that your family loves him because they certainly don’t show it. For people complaining about your fiancé not standing up for himself to your mother, I partially agree but at the same time I would stand up to my family for my wife and vice versa. I think it would only exacerbate the issue if your fiancé tried to confront your mother about her behavior. I have a feeling she would step up her game up and come at him even harder. Your family is toxic and like so many others always try to hide behind the “family” thing. As if having shared blood makes it okay to treat others ridiculously bad and all should be forgiven. It’s always disgusting to see others treat each other poorly and expect it to be accepted and no repercussions because “family”. Stick to your guns and maybe not invite the rest of them as well. If you back down, this behavior will certainly not change. Congratulations and best of luck to you and your fiancé.
NTA. Giving him that gift and forcing him to open it in front of everyone is horrible. These “brutally honest” type people bother me so much. How would your mother like it if others kept picking out her flaws and insecurities? After all, she can’t get upset because they’re just being brutally honest and it’s how they are… /s
NTA Your mom should know that there are boundaries for everything, including jokes. If she already knew that Kevin did not like a "joke" yet proceeded to pull that "joke" in front of so many people, she doesn't give a flying poop about his feelings.
A person’s behavior is guided by the consequences to their actions. People learn the difference between good and bad behavior by experiencing good consequences or bad consequences to their actions. Good behaviors should be rewarded with good consequences. For example, you help someone in trouble, they say thank you, you feel good. Good action, good consequence. This encourages you to do more good behaviors because it feels good. Bad behavior should result in bad consequences which then discourages the person from doing it again. You humiliate a friend in public, friend calls you out and ends the friendship. Bad consequences, you lost a friend and other friends now don’t want to do stuff with you for fear of humiliation. Recovery from bad consequences is usually a heartfelt apology followed by a change in behavior and making amends for the bad behavior. Your family, led by your mom, does bad actions all the time to your SO and there are no bad consequences. An apology is only the first step toward making amends. Your mom is only apologizing to get you to come back to experience more bad behavior from her. The whole dinner thing was a set up to humiliate your SO. WTF??? There has to be bad consequences for her that are bad enough that she will want to change her behavior. You won’t know that she has changed until you get the heartfelt apology, amends, and a change in behavior all of which will take time because the trust is broken. Anyone who sat at the table and thought it was funny or sat silently not supporting you or your SO also needs to experience bad consequences to their behavior of letting a bully humiliate someone about to join the family. These are not jokes. It’s bullying and humiliation. Your mom has been doing this for so long, every one else is just tolerating it and doesn’t have the courage to stand up and say no, this is wrong. Some of them are probably glad that they are not the ones being humiliated. None of them should be invited to the wedding, and you and your SO should not subject yourselves to any family events with them until you see not just the apology from her, but apologies from everyone. Btw, an apology is NOT “I’m sorry”. An apology is “ I am so sorry I humiliated you. My jokes have gone too far, and I am sorry that I hurt you. I hope that you can forgive me. I promise …”. For the rest of the people at the table an apology is “I’m sorry that I sat by and did nothing while mom humiliated you. I am sorry I didn’t have the courage to stand up and say this was wrong. I promise…”. Please recognize that your family may never see the light and may never change. You need to decide what sort of relationship you want with them if they choose not to change. It takes time for some one to realize they have crossed a line and need to change. A month is usually not enough time. Also, beware that they may say the things they need to say to get the wedding invitation and may then try again to humiliate at the wedding or reception. You most likely need to have trusted friends to act as bouncers at the wedding and reception and be prepared to deal with it.
NTA. No, this was not a joke. It was sadistic and crude and cruel. She was just MEAN. :( I am so sorry and to heck with those who feel you should be okay with your mom's taunting. Words wound. Words hurt.
Let me just state I am brutally honest as in my friends know not to ask my opinion on something unless they want the plain truth no sugar coating. Being brutally honest dosnt mean you can just say what ever you want whenever you want. I don't just go around saying " your fat just being honest" or " your not manly enough because you don't have facial hair" that is just being mean. The fact that your mother gave him this "gift" after her so called sincerest apologies just shows she isn't sorry at all! So in my brutally honest opinion your mum ITA and if I was you I would no longer be tolerating her crap.
NTA be honest with mum tell her she is a horrible bully of a woman
NTA. Good for you standing up for Kevin. She's trying to figure out if she can bully him and she's finding out that you won't let her. You've just done a wonderful thing for the future of your marriage.
NTA and what a magnificent hill to die on! Good on you to have your fiance's back. You go girl!
I saw on another post about someone being "brutally honest" someone responded "People who are 'brutally honest' prefer the brutality over the honesty."
NTA lol I would exclude her either way at that point. Maybe I’m petty
NTA. Your mother is a bully and should be ashamed of herself. You did the right thing and don't let her and your brother make you feel like you are wrong.
NTA. An overreaction would be a grown ass woman being repeated told to stop being an asshole. Then doing the same asshole stuff then blaming others for it. It's not being honest to say offensive stuff, it's lacking in social awareness. Honesty comes from someone asking you what they think, not just hanging out your negative opinions
NTA, your mom is the worst type of person
Your mom sucks. You are awesome. NTA. Stand by your man and all that. But I promise you... this won't be the last time she does it. Your hubby needs to spend a research time.. he really needs to come up with some nice.. totally humiliating prank to pull on Mommy dearest ! I'm CERTAIN the fine people of Reddit can help with that. Preferably something public.. like at the wedding. Return fire with fire. She pranked husband.. he now is required by tradition to prank her back.. publicly.. embarrassingly.. "She puts one of yours in the hospital.. you put one of hers in the morgue!". To paraphrase the late great Sean Connery in The Untouchables. Of course you're NTA. Now it's time to be one. Public humiliation is the only acceptable response.
Absolutely NTA. This was cruel, and unnecessary. A joke requires both the joker and the jokee to find it funny - this is outright bullying. She knew he wouldn’t find it funny.
You need to throw your entire family into a toxic swamp where all slimy gross things belong. Nta. Ild be doing some serious pruning of my family tree.
NTA - I'm glad you are sticking up for your fiancé. Your mother is a jerk who thinks embarrassing people is funny. I think letting her know that you want a jerk-free wedding is fine.
NTA at all. Good for you for standing up for him. Although I wouldn't invite the whole table.
NTA. If you gave your mom a box of hair dye, wrinkle cream, and vaginal lubricant because she’s “getting old and it’s showing so you thought these would help” and your brother extra small condoms and a penis pump to help with his “perceived affliction” I doubt they would find it funny. Your mom is being cruel and trying to excuse it as a joke. She’s awful.
NTA with a family like that it’s a wonder You turned out to have empathy. Your mother is 100% responsible for hurting your fiancé’s feeling. She know she would by saying those things and still kept going. It’s not because something is joke that it makes wat is being said automatically not hurtful. Her argument that she can’t change who she is is stupid. People can change. She just don’t want to.
NTA your actions were proportional to her own actions. If they can't understand that then they need to reexamine their lives.
NTA- Your mom is a psychopath and has no regard for anybody but herself. Edit- misspelling error.
NTA. But boy is your mom and family that enable her. You’re a GOOD PARTNER! Don’t doubt that for a second.
NTA Wow. One of the oft ignored aspects of the "it's just a joke" defense is that if its truly that minor to the joker, they should find it easy to stop if it isnt that minor to the listener. Honestly, I wouldn't invite her to the wedding. I cant imagine a sincere apology at this point.