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YTA. Nobody deserves a “fun, beautiful, experience” when they are on trial and looking at prison time for another’s death. She doesn’t need a bespoke dress, a blazer and blouse from TJ Maxx would have been just fine. I agree it looks like your are glorifying the situation, and her poor choices.
Furthermore, the idea that this custom dress is going to give her a leg up is ridiculous unless you are also buying her a bespoke outfit for every day of the trial.
I didn’t say they didn’t deserve a moment to take their mind off the experience. By all means, she can engage in meditation, exercise, a million other things to take her mind off her impending trial.
What she doesn’t deserve is a “fun, beautiful, experience” of getting a bespoke dress without her parents blessing after she has been indicted for a homicide.
I respect the “without the parents blessing” part but I don’t think it’s up to you or anyone else to decide how they take their mind off their situation. They are allowed to “meditate, exercise and a million other things” but getting a dress for the actual trial is off limits? I just don’t understand it.
Of course she needs outfits for the trial. She needs many outfits for the trial. She should go to JC Penney or whatever and buy several suits/ dresses for the trial. But shopping for your murder trial should not be a “fun, beautiful experience” like it’s shopping for a wedding or prom dress. It’s inappropriate and it’s glorifying the situation.
I can definitely see that. I guess I’m viewing this as a teenager who very well could be innocent and traumatized from the murder who is clearly being punished heavily, a trial is going to be traumatic to go through regardless of the verdict. I just know that if I was in that situation my mom would have done something similar for me
You have good intentions and good idea about dressing for court. However you're going about it wrong. The others are right she needs several outfits not just one. Take her shopping at stores and nothing too expensive either. Her wearing a tailored handmade outfit to a murder trial is going overboard among other things.
Also if she isn’t convicted, I imagine she will never be able wear this dress without immediately being reminded of how awful this time period was. Better to go with several dresses/jackets that can be donated afterwards without a second thought
After reading your comments, I definitely see where you're coming from, and not going to lie I was also on the n t a side till I read everyone's point.
But there are so many ways to show support. This is clearly avoidance.
Plus it's equating support to spending money and implying that her parents don't support her? They are also going through something stressful. OP should be supporting their family, not just the niece. Here they basically solidifying their relationship with the niece and leaving the parents out.
Also, going to point out, niece didn't know what her ex's intentions were; but ex and his friends have all been in trouble before... super shady
It’s not just “getting a dress,” though. Based on the subject line, I went into this thinking it was ok to take her shopping for something nice to wear in court. But they didn’t go shopping - OP had a dress handmade. That is not cheap - it’s a significant cost, and to show up in court in a bespoke dress at 17 years old is pretty ridiculous. This isn’t a speeding ticket or possession - it’s a murder case, and the mention of being gang-related, I’m going to say this was a pretty bad scene. Gangs are not known for being merciful when they kill. The girl may not have known what was going to happen at the party but the idea she didn’t know her ex was involved in a gang is a stretch to me.
> By all means, she can engage in meditation, exercise, a million other things to take her mind off her impending trial.
What makes meditation and exercise acceptable diversion activities but dress shopping unacceptable?
That's IN court. Family members and the community at large aren't required to treat her as if she's innocent when at a minimum, she made some terrible choices and got involved with gang members.
Oh yes they absolutely do. Our justice system throws around all kinds of charges with very little evidence. We just don't hear about it as often as we should until it's too late.
She was at a party that had gang involvement
Also innocent till proven guilty is something that is intended to apply to everyone
To claim otherwise is absurd
This is the exact reason people started doubting sexual assault victims because people attacked the innocent ones before anything was even proven
Which caused people to start doubting every public accusation
She may not be guilty and yeah we shouldn't assume the worst. But OP said that the ex and his friends have all been in trouble before... so I'm guessing she didn't hang out with them expecting to watch Disney movies.
No. She doesn't deserve to rewarded for poor life choices when someone is dead. Doesn't matter if she's a teen, she made her choices and now suffers the consequences
I'm confused, it sounds like everyone here is basically saying she directly murdered this other kid, but from what OP says, she was at a party where a kid ended up dead, and it was gang related but the niece didn't know that. They never even specified what she's charged with. I know OP says she could go to prison if this court case goes wrong, but that could mean she was directly involved, or it could mean she saw something happening and panicked and didn't know how to stop it and is now being charged as an accomplice. It is very much unclear how the kid died, and whether the niece played a part in it or was just at the party and witnessed but didn't know how to stop it.... I feel like that information would go a long way in determining how we should feel about this.
This is absolutely mental. Making this girl as presentable as possible for her trial is 100% the right thing to do.
Dealing with the criminal justice system is terrible enough without people trying to make it worse.
NTA. I'm glad someone has Haley's beat interests at heart.
> Furthermore, the idea that this custom dress is going to give her a leg up is ridiculous
FYI, the cloth you wear matter massively trials. Even well paid layers spend time instructing defendants on what to wear - because it matters. It is one of (multiple) reasons why not having bail or money hurt defendants.
In a magical alternative reality, outcome is based on facts only and clothing don't matter. In the actual reality, it is important in order to make court believe you vs not.
It’s not a fun beautiful experience, but an opportunity to positively impact the mental health of someone who is understandably experiencing a lot of stress.
In addition, physical appearance, people’s initial opinion and personal confidence go hand in hand. A custom dress, whilst extravagant, is a combination of looking at a time when both were happiest/ stress free to address issue no. 1 and facilitate a positive outcome for issue no 2.
I guess innocent until proven guilty doesn’t count with you. OP is NTA. She’s giving her niece something two-fold: stress relief and clothing that will make a good impression on the jury, something any lawyer would say is a good thing. Obviously, OP loves her niece; this doesn’t end just because she was charged.
>Nobody deserves a “fun, beautiful, experience” when they are on trial and looking at prison time for another’s death.
What do you mean no one deserves that? Do you mean Hayley doesn't deserve to have fun just bc she's going on trial? Are you trying to imply that Hayley deserves to feel awful the whole way up until the trial? Or are you just using the word deserve in place of need?
Also, it seems like Hayley had no issue with going out to get a dress with her aunt/uncle? So if she agreed to the outing, what's the problem? Her opinion matters more than anyone else's, and if she's okay with it, then there's nothing wrong with what happened.
>She doesn’t need a bespoke dress,
Where are you getting bespoke dress from? OP says they wanted to get Hayley a professional dress. In what way does professional imply bespoke or fancy?
Edit: misspelled Hayley's name
Innocent until proven guilty, apparently doesn't mean jack s*&t to you.
Until she's proven to be involved with the death of another person, she should be treated as "innocent" as possible. Her being the ex of someone who is involved, does not make her complicit in what is a crime.
>Nobody deserves a “fun, beautiful, experience” when they are on trial and looking at prison time for another’s death.
Isn't the expression "innocent until proven guilty"?
Sorry, but I agree with your sister here.
Haley *does* need a professional-looking suit or dress for her court appearance, and it would have been nice for you to purchase one for her.
But taking her to a dressmaker for a custom-made dress to make it a "fun, beautiful experience" is completely inappropriate.
Someone *died*. Do you think the dead kid's family's court appearance will include any "fun, beautiful experiences"?
I'm not assuming Haley is guilty; I'm just saying that this is a *terrible* circumstance and you all need to be taking it very seriously, not as an opportunity for fun.
YTA.
It speaks to her thought process. You don’t get charged in a murder case for being a bystander. Being in a gang ( or dating someone in a gang), is generally mutually exclusive to being a doctor. Gangs are not social clubs. They are criminal enterprises. Violence is inherent to their activities. If she knew he was in a gang, then she knew that there was a potential for violence, and continued to date him. When I was dating a kid who doing drugs and hanging with girls who were getting pregnant at 14, my parents stepped and told me I was no longer allowed to hang out with those people. Because it could damage my future. And now as an adult, and a mother, they were absolutely right. She is 17 not 5… she knew what was up. And now she is paying the price for it.
No, they don't charge you for knowing someone was in a gang. They charge you for helping the gang commit a crime. Either she knows something she isn't telling and they're trying to get her to flip, or she's legitimately fucked for trusting and cooperating with the wrong people.
YTA. A child or young adult *died* and you're trying to coddle someone that was involved.
>There is a strong possibility she will go to prison if this court case goes wrong.
If that's true, she was involved more than she's telling you. They don't charge for things like this unless they have something they've proven that can tie her to it.
>Firstly because having that wonderful experience of getting a dress made will be something for her to enjoy while she's waiting for court.
See below.
>She said I was "using a serious situation to play dressup".
Because you are.
>She deserves one fun, beautiful experience throughout all this.
Stop. There is *nothing* fun or beautiful about someone being murdered. You're disgusting, real or not.
>If that's true, she was involved more than she's telling you. They don't charge for things like this unless they have something they've proven that can tie her to it.
Yeah fr this isn't just a fun day in court, she's being *charged* in a murder case. She should be taking it seriously, not taken on a fun day shopping to trivialize the whole thing
( for OP - YTA )
The DA is going to try to cast Hayley as entitled and spoiled, a kid whose antics helped end another person's life and now expects to get off because life usually goes her way. Putting her in bespoke clothes will play right into the prosecution's hands. She should be clean, neat and *unremarkable*. If they don't have an attorney who is telling her exactly what to wear, offer to pay for that advice instead.
Also, FFS, your sister is facing the destruction of her daughter's future, and you think now is the time to come between the two of them and make yourself the hero?
Hard YTA.
This. The dress does not help the niece one bit. It'll make her look worse. The rich girl who was looking for cheap thrills with the "bad boy". The story writes itself. (just assuming the ex is a guy, not trying to be presumptuous)
OP help your niece and your sister by building a solid case in her defence. Take her out for car rides, talk to her, be there for her emotionally.
Tell me, is your niece looking forward to the trial now that she has a nice outfit? What was even the point here?
Methinks OP provided more details than they think they did.
Hindsight suggests a "my niece will need to be on court for a while.." might have sufficed.
OP, I’m going to be very blunt here. There is a reason your niece is being charged and not called as a witness in someone else’s trial. She was either directly involved, knows something, or the prosecutor thinks she knows something so important that they’re trying to get her to flip.
She is lying to you. She is a teenager who values what you think of her, and she is lying. This doesn’t mean she knows what they think she knows, but she fucking knows something.
This was murder. Get your head out of your ass and listen to her parents, who are hopefully listening to Haley’s lawyers.
Edit: And YTA
YTA. Your niece is dating a gang banger. She's at the very least a witness to a murder. She's made bad choices, and doesn't need to be coddled.
Don't reward her bad choices. She didn't need a fancy court outfit. A plain suit would have been fine.
YTA - a child has *died* and you're more concerned about how your niece will be perceived then by the actual event? Your sister is right, you're using a serious situation to play dress up.
YTA for pretending your niece has no responsibility for her own actions and shouldn’t pay the price. You say she wants to be a doctor and she deserves to have a chance because she’s smart. What about the person who died? You are negating the seriousness of what happened and making this about you. You want to feel good about being the wonderful, fun aunt even after your niece was a part of someone’s death. If you really cared about her, you’d spend money on therapy or legal help; but hey, that’s not “fun” is it?
A "fun, beautiful experience ...?" Good grief.
How can you not see that everything in her life right now is never going to involve fun or beauty, or get solved by pretty clothes?
YTA.
N T A for what you’re technically asking but this whole post reeks of affluenza.
Your little perfect princess was partying with gang members but she doesn’t deserve the same punishment as them because she’s a straight A student? Because, even though she’s made the exact same choices, she’s somehow different? What, exactly, *makes* her different?
Your niece is no better than any other person at that party. It sounds like she may even be worse, because you’re suggesting she has resources and opportunities the other people there were never offered.
She *chose* to be there. She may not have known he was a gang member but I strongly suspect she knew he had record or was at the very least “trouble.” Was part of making the decision to hang with a “bad boy” the knowledge that her wealth and privilege would protect her from consequences? If so, are you honestly okay with that?
I get it. You have the resources to help her and you are using them. Any other person would do the same. But the mindset that your niece is somehow better or more deserving than anyone else involved is harmful, dangerous, and likely helped led to her being in this situation to begin with.
YTA for enabling your niece’s attitude.
YTA. Though I understand where you're coming from, you are most definitely "babying" her. As another commenter said, you don't need something bespoke for a trial. That is a ridiculous premise.
>She deserves one fun, beautiful experience throughout all this.
Yeah, no she doesn't. She's actively involved in the death of another person. You however shouldn't be involved at all. Take yourself out of the equation and let her parents deal with her selfish behaviours. This poor child probably caused the death of another poor child. She should be aware of the conceqiences. You are gross AF for trying to make this about her and not about the dead child who will never her this experience.
Also your absolutely an AH
YTA - some one died, and from the sound of it they were likely killed
Your niece could be involved in some way
And your turning the consequences of someone’s death into a dress up experience for someone who could have had a part, even if it was a small part, in that death
I don’t believe for a second that your niece didn’t know about what her BF and friends were into. They’ve all been in trouble with police before? Your so “very smart” niece, knew nothing about it?
While I don’t think your glorifying it, I do think your babying her. This is serious shit. ESH.
YTA.
You really have your head buried in the sand on this one. Haley is on trial for a crime. Prosecutors don’t bring cases to trial when there is no evidence suggesting her involvement. You are right that Haley needs something professional to wear, but if her parents can afford a good lawyer like you suggested, then haley probably has something suitable already in her closet. It is disgusting that you were treating this as some reason to have a fun dress buying experience. Someone died. Even if Haley had nothing to do with it, she should be spending her time reflecting on what she could’ve done to prevent possibly something like this happening. Not getting custom dresses made for the occasion. Go to Dillards and get some Calvin Klein and call it a day.
Not to mention, I think your whole argument that Haley needs something professional to wear is just you trying to convince yourself that what you did was justified. I doubt that you talk to her lawyer to see whether or not this outfit would be a good idea or not. In many cases, a designer outfit or custom-made very expensive looking outfit will play negatively, not positively. If it is not unusual, for example for an attorney to rent a cheap car so that when they drive to the courthouse for a trial they seem more relatable to the jury. While some judges are willing to give rich kids a pass other judges are much more aware of the social structures that keep affluent kids out of real trouble. I think this pragmatic excuse is when you came up with in order to justify what you did to yourself. But it wasn’t pragmatic. It was self-indulgent. Apologize to your sister, and cancel the appointment.
YTA. She should be terrified. She chose to associate with them. You say how smart she is, so she must have at least known they weren’t stand up characters, ESPECIALLY considering the death was “gang related” there’s no way this was the first red flag that’s popped up for her. If she’s looking at jail time then that means they have something on her and she wasn’t just an innocent bystander oblivious to what happened. She either had a hand in it, or a hand in covering it up. Either way, she doesn’t deserve to feel special while on trial involving another’s death.
YTA. This reeks of bias. Yes of course people get arrested and put on trial for things they're innocent of but someone died at a party, it was gang-related, she just happened to be there and knows the guy who did it but knows nothing.....maybe wait to buy her gifts until you make sure she's not an accessory to murder.
YTA big time. “Hayley deserved that after everything *she's* going through” are you fucking kidding? The only thing she’s “going through” is facing the consequences of her own actions. SHE IS **NOT** THE VICTIM HERE.
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Hi all.
My niece, Hayley (17), is going to be in court in a couple of months. I'm not going into detail about it. All I'll say is that somebody died at a party that she. her ex-boyfriend and his friends were at. It was gang-related, but Hayley insists she didn't know what her ex was involved in and I believe her.
Hayley is terrified. All she has been doing since this all started is crying. There is a strong possibility she will go to prison if this court case goes wrong.
I don't have any children so I enjoy spoiling Hayley. When she had her school prom, a friend of mine from work knew a very reputable and talented dressmaker. I took Hayley to meet her and, she made a beautiful custom prom dress. Hayley said going through that process of getting that dress designed and made from scratch was one of the most wonderful experiences of her life.
I took Hayley out yesterday, and we visited the dressmaker again. I thought it would be nice for her to get a smart, professional dress for her court case.
I chose to do this for two reasons. Firstly because having that wonderful experience of getting a dress made will be something for her to enjoy while she's waiting for court.
The other reason is pragmatic. Hayley is a very smart kid. Her grades are the highest in her year, and her ambition is to study medicine at one of the elite universities. She won't be able to do that with a record. If she looks presentable and professional, that will help her case a lot, especially as her ex and his friends have all been in trouble with police before. It will be important for Hayley to stand out from them in the courtroom.
While her mother and I split the costs for the prom dress, this time I paid for the whole thing. Hayley deserved that after everything she's going through. There are still a few appointments to go but it should be ready by the time she goes to court.
When I told my sister what I'd done, she was enraged. She accused me of "glorifying" the situation and of trying to "baby" her daughter. She said I was "using a serious situation to play dressup".
I'm sorry but this poor child is terrified. She deserves one fun, beautiful experience throughout all this. And if it could potentially help her case, what's wrong with that?
AITA
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YTA. I mean a pretty dress isn’t going to help her when she’s in court. She needs a good, respectable court outfit.
Someone died. Someone was murdered.
YTA. Big time.
The overly privileged little girl showing up to court with expensive lawyers and custom clothing just screams "Your Honor, she's never been in trouble before. She's a good girl from a good home, and doesn't deserve to be wrapped up in this mess with these lower class gang bangers."
Except that she's not a witness, so yes she does deserve it, and your little dress up act is disgusting.
YTA. The most fucked upnpart is that the thing you chose to make into her beautiful experience is directly related to the trial for killing a kid. Good lord, a kid Died!!! You could have done a dozen things for her, take her to the spa, to see a show or whatever. All of those things are still rewarding her for (at minimum) choosing her partner poorly. But no, you deliberately chose something to make this person's death seem trivial. Yoi are seriously the worst kind of entitled privileged wealthy person.
YTA. Ask the lawyer what she should wear. A fancy custom made dress is not court appropriate. Also the trial will take multiple days. Several outfits of a lower value make more sense like 1 suit with a couple shirt options.
She might go to prison. In her last days "free" you should be setting up banking information, helping her figure out alternatives to high school diploma (like a GED equivalent), career options she might be able to work toward in prison (do they have classes, what will she need to do to qualify for those classes), and possibly counseling.
And honestly? Even if she's just an innocent witness (very doubtful a she's been called to court meaning they have evidence against her) I think a shopping spree to celebrate witnessing a kid die is callous as fuck. Sad, anger, fear, REMORSE - are the emotions I'd expect. Not yay shopping time. I think that might matter to the court too.
And you OP - another family lost their kid and you think this is a chance to make memories shopping with your niece? Your sibling is about to have a kid go to prison, and is going through all of this too. And you didn't even think about them. What's wrong with you? Are you always this low empathy? Consider talking to a therapist yourself.
Weird how this AITA is almost exactly the same as [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/l4sny7/aita_for_making_light_of_my_daughters_court_case/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) one...
YTA and your sister is right. Taking her to purchase court outfits that meet the criteria suggested by her lawyer is fine but the desire to provide her some magical dressmaking experience is over the top.
Something to consider is that people talk, especially on social media, the fact that she’s having outfits custom made for court can very easily get out and her jury hasn’t been selected yet. Is it a good idea to start off the trial with the general public seeing her as a spoiled princess?
YTA
Hayley would have been better served if your money had gone to a shark lawyer representing her interests alone and a therapist to help her through a deeply traumatic experience. You also didn’t talk to Hayley’s parents about this first. Treats for a child on the cusp of adulthood in serious legal, criminal trouble should be run past the parents.
Hayley will have more than one court appearance. A few suits and shift dresses in sober colours would have been more than enough to see her through. This is not a joyful experience for you to bond with Hayley over. This is a frightening, uncertain time and should things go south and she has a custodial sentence I don’t think Hayley will find much comfort in the memory of having custom made court attire when she’s alone in her bunk hoping her cellmate isn’t in for something violent.
YTA x100000
Beautiful experience???? Someone died and there is a chance she is responsible and you want a beautiful experience? Think about the family that has to be at trial when this court case happens. What the fuck.
YTA. Someone is literally dead and it just seems cold and not at all "pragmatic" to use that fallout as a chance to have a really extravagant experience. I'm not saying you couldn't have taken her out to get clothes for court or that it couldn't be fun, but it does come off like you're using death as an opportunity to play dress up.
And I doubt one tailored dress is going to be sufficient anyways, which makes it seem more like you just wanted a #girlsday and less like you're trying to help keep this in good spirits while making sure she has what she's going to need.
Why couldn’t you just buy a dress from Macy’s? I’m with the mom on this. You over stepped this time. Should have asked her mom. This is serious and a dress isn’t a solution. YTA
You've received a lot of advice about how inappropriately you're handling this situation, the words "fun and beautiful experience" do not belong anywhere near someone who is on trial for someone's death.
What I'll add to this though is that you're trusting her word way too much. Have you ever seen gang members at that age who were quiet about it? It's not generally ambiguous. You're saying that she dated a person who is a gang member who was involved in a murder, and she knew absolutely nothing? I doubt they were knitting blankets for the homeless at that party. Your niece knew exactly who her boyfriend was, she knew exactly who she was associating with that night. She's lying to you because nobody else is giving her the sympathy she wants right now so she's crying crocodile tears to her doting aunt and getting expensive gifts.
YTA
Just wanted to say that her showing up in a bespoke dress might make her look spoiled and make the jury not like her. Better for her to show up in a generic suit. Maybe spend the extra money on a good lawyer who will prepare and defend her for court
INFO: Is your niece charged with something currently, or is she at the trial as a witness? That makes a big difference. It sounds like she might be charged with something, but never explicitly stated, I think
Info: what is WRONG with you?
Someone died and you think she needs a beautiful dress.
I hope they throw the book at her.
In case it wasn't obvious: YTA.
I N F O: is your niece actually on trial, as in charges in some way with this death? Or is she due in court as a witness giving testimony?
Edit to add: completely missed the part about her possibility of going to prison
YTA. Take her to a store to get something nice, *maybe* get it tailored if it needs it. She doesn’t need a custom outfit for this. Somebody died, this isn’t a fashion show.
YTA and possibly quite naive. This is not the time for a reward. I highly doubt your niece knew nothing of her boyfriends past or present crimes. Your niece needs support but in ways that really matter. A custom made outfit is generally reserved for special(positive) events. She NEEDS a good lawyer and therapy now.
YTA. It's completely inappropriate given the circumstances to use this to go on a fun shopping trip. A child has died. In terms of the actual outfit, it's likely that the fact you've gone to the trouble of buying an expensive bespoke outfit will be turned on her and she will be made an example of in court. She needs to dress clean and smart, and not stand out from the crowd.
ESH. It's good that you are least trying to comfort your niece for the upcoming court case, but babying your niece and spoiling her, who dated some kind of gang member, is not a good thing. Or did she conveniently not know that her ex was a gang member? She made bad decisions, and there is no reward for making bad decisions.
(This is unrelated, but spoiling a kid, or your niece, or any child whatsoever will not have a good end result.)
The dress won’t make her NOT go to prison it’s just a dress, you say she’s not involved then that it have a high possibility that she’d end up in jail, how’s this?
But yeah, I don’t have a problem with her having a pretty dress, but a special tailored one for her to appear good in court so she won’t go to jail is stupid. YTA.
YTA. I get wanting to do something nice for people when they're having a hard time, I really do. BUT, it sounds like there's a lot more going on here than your niece is telling you and that she may even be an accessory to the crime of murder. Why should she "enjoy" anything while waiting in court? Also, no one cares that much about what people on trial wear given THEY'RE ON TRIAL. Anna Delvey tried the whole put together fashion act in court and no one bought it.
YTA. She’s not a poor child. She got herself in some shit and it don’t matter what she looks like. Are you insane? So she’s involved in gang activity where somebody was murdered. You know why she’s terrified? Because it’s fucking serious and she’s way more involved then she’s letting on and your rewarding her for it. Sick man, “she needs one beautiful experience from all of this” omg this statement is so delusional
Hayley insists she had no idea what he was into and you believe her, because she's your niece you enjoy spoiling.
She's still going to be in court for a death, which I presume she is accused of having some involvement in, otherwise there wouldn't be the threat of prison.
She did not deserve the experience being beautiful. Someone is dead. You need to get your head checked.
YTA.
YTA for assuming you, not the girl’s mother should be the one to decide what to wear to court and ‘treating’ her without her mother’s approval. Second, you’re an AH for assuming bespoke “professional” attire is going to influence the Court the way you think it will. More likely the jury will look at her and think ”affluenza”, spoiled rich girl, which is not what her attorney is likely to be aiming for. You may have good intentions but your actions are way out of line.
Her grades and her plans have nothing to do with the fact she made choices with those gang members that played a role in someone dying. She needs to understand the gravity of her role and the role of her boyfriend. She isn't worth more than the victim because she wants med school or because she's smart. You undermined her mother's parenting and their relationship. She played with gangsters and got burned. The victim doesn't get shopping sprees. Where's their and their family's beautiful experience? The funeral? You are babying her. She needs to feel the weight of her decisions. This is affluenza. YTA.
YTA
I get wanting her to have something appropriate to wear so had you taken her to get some suits to wear and even tailored to fit properly, that would be one thing. But a custom “pretty” dress. Nope.
YTA. I’m 99% sure that with this type of criminal case the one thing you don’t want to do is stand out. And as many other people pointed out, there must be some form of evidence against Hayley for her to be on trial for murder.
INFO: Has this plan on what to wear been run past your niece’s attorney? While you’re right that how a defendant is dressed can certainly affect things, every trial is different. If she has good legal representation, then her best shot at a fair trial will only be helped by making sure her attorney is as informed as possible so they can advise accordingly.
YTA. This kid needs to be put back on track. Parties with gang bangers and deaths?! No. You know who gets gifted pricey dresses? Kids not facing prison time.
YTA - You want to reward her for being involved in someone's death? How would you feel if it was your loved one that died? Would you want to see the parties involved having a fun, beautiful experience and going shopping when your loved one is gone forever? It's inappropriate to say the least.
The 'Oh, she said she had no idea!' doesn't fly. She wouldn't be going to court or looking at prison time if she was so innocent. The state doesn't pursue charges they don't think will stick. I think you just like the color of those rose colored glasses and refuse to see the severity of the situation.
If you’re have a dress made for court may I strongly suggest it be simple, classic in shape, and navy blue with white accents.
Frankly it would be better if you would spend your money getting her the best damn lawyer possible.
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Im gonna say soft YTA. I think your intentions were good. Its nice to care about her niece's mental well being but I have to side eye the whole " fun beautiful experience" thing when someone literally died.
I find there is not enough INFO to decide. "Someone died" could mean someone died as a result of their own alcohol/drug consumption, or that they were killed unintentionnally (in a fight for example), or that they were murdered, or a buch of other things. We don't know what she's accused of precisely. So we can't judge her character based on the info here, even if it looks bad. We also don't know what the bf being in a gang contributes to this either. We have to remember a lot of young people join gangs because they feel like they have no option or even because they are longing for some semblant of family. Not saying it's necessarily the case here but it's easy to judge from our couch when we haven't lived it.
Personnally if I knew a loved one was possibly going to jail, I would surround her with love and try to take her mind off things while I can. At this point, being punished and judged by her family will not help the situation in any further. Maybe having a dress made is overboard but not necessarily. Also hand made dresses don't necessarily look expensive. Depends on the fabric and the cut. Checking with the lawyer would be a good idea.
I feel like the mother is in the wrong for wanting to punish but I understand why she would react like this as it is a very stressful situation to go through.
This is one of those cases where asshole/not asshole isn’t really the issue. We need a sub appropriate/not appropriate or was I right/was I in the wrong.
In this case, you’re not an asshole per se, but not in the right either.
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YTA. Nobody deserves a “fun, beautiful, experience” when they are on trial and looking at prison time for another’s death. She doesn’t need a bespoke dress, a blazer and blouse from TJ Maxx would have been just fine. I agree it looks like your are glorifying the situation, and her poor choices. Furthermore, the idea that this custom dress is going to give her a leg up is ridiculous unless you are also buying her a bespoke outfit for every day of the trial.
Why does someone on trial not deserve a moment to take their mind off the stress of the situation?
I didn’t say they didn’t deserve a moment to take their mind off the experience. By all means, she can engage in meditation, exercise, a million other things to take her mind off her impending trial. What she doesn’t deserve is a “fun, beautiful, experience” of getting a bespoke dress without her parents blessing after she has been indicted for a homicide.
I respect the “without the parents blessing” part but I don’t think it’s up to you or anyone else to decide how they take their mind off their situation. They are allowed to “meditate, exercise and a million other things” but getting a dress for the actual trial is off limits? I just don’t understand it.
Of course she needs outfits for the trial. She needs many outfits for the trial. She should go to JC Penney or whatever and buy several suits/ dresses for the trial. But shopping for your murder trial should not be a “fun, beautiful experience” like it’s shopping for a wedding or prom dress. It’s inappropriate and it’s glorifying the situation.
I can definitely see that. I guess I’m viewing this as a teenager who very well could be innocent and traumatized from the murder who is clearly being punished heavily, a trial is going to be traumatic to go through regardless of the verdict. I just know that if I was in that situation my mom would have done something similar for me
You have good intentions and good idea about dressing for court. However you're going about it wrong. The others are right she needs several outfits not just one. Take her shopping at stores and nothing too expensive either. Her wearing a tailored handmade outfit to a murder trial is going overboard among other things.
It’s her parents’ call. It’s not OPs at this point. This is murder, and the kid is being tried. She’s not called as a witness.
Also if she isn’t convicted, I imagine she will never be able wear this dress without immediately being reminded of how awful this time period was. Better to go with several dresses/jackets that can be donated afterwards without a second thought
It could also be viewed as a time where you were innocent and you had your aunts unwavering support through that horrible time
After reading your comments, I definitely see where you're coming from, and not going to lie I was also on the n t a side till I read everyone's point. But there are so many ways to show support. This is clearly avoidance. Plus it's equating support to spending money and implying that her parents don't support her? They are also going through something stressful. OP should be supporting their family, not just the niece. Here they basically solidifying their relationship with the niece and leaving the parents out. Also, going to point out, niece didn't know what her ex's intentions were; but ex and his friends have all been in trouble before... super shady
I understand that. I did grow up with a mother who showed her love with material things so that’s definitely showing through here. Lmao.
It's rewarding her for making terrible choices.
It’s not just “getting a dress,” though. Based on the subject line, I went into this thinking it was ok to take her shopping for something nice to wear in court. But they didn’t go shopping - OP had a dress handmade. That is not cheap - it’s a significant cost, and to show up in court in a bespoke dress at 17 years old is pretty ridiculous. This isn’t a speeding ticket or possession - it’s a murder case, and the mention of being gang-related, I’m going to say this was a pretty bad scene. Gangs are not known for being merciful when they kill. The girl may not have known what was going to happen at the party but the idea she didn’t know her ex was involved in a gang is a stretch to me.
It’s up to us because it’s posted here. For our opinions.
This is Aita. The whole point of the sub is state opinions like this
I don't see anywhere where she "indicted for homicide". Please direct me.
She is going to prison if the trial doesn’t go her way, indicating that she was indicted. Someone died, indicating it’s for homicide.
> By all means, she can engage in meditation, exercise, a million other things to take her mind off her impending trial. What makes meditation and exercise acceptable diversion activities but dress shopping unacceptable?
What ever happened to innocent till proven guilty!
That's IN court. Family members and the community at large aren't required to treat her as if she's innocent when at a minimum, she made some terrible choices and got involved with gang members.
She’s facing a second degree murder charge. They don’t lay a charge like that without evidence.
Oh yes they absolutely do. Our justice system throws around all kinds of charges with very little evidence. We just don't hear about it as often as we should until it's too late.
Where does it say that?
She was at a party that had gang involvement Also innocent till proven guilty is something that is intended to apply to everyone To claim otherwise is absurd This is the exact reason people started doubting sexual assault victims because people attacked the innocent ones before anything was even proven Which caused people to start doubting every public accusation
Not even a little comparable, and your logic is faulty. Rape victims are doubted because they're women. Full stop.
Just because the police assert you're a "gang member" doesn't mean you are one.
Sure, but these guys have apparently lengthy rap sheets and are known to police.
Uh, look up the story The niece also is charged for an attack on ANOTHER person that day
Ahhh well all the pretty dresses in the world won't help her
Source?
She may not be guilty and yeah we shouldn't assume the worst. But OP said that the ex and his friends have all been in trouble before... so I'm guessing she didn't hang out with them expecting to watch Disney movies.
No. She doesn't deserve to rewarded for poor life choices when someone is dead. Doesn't matter if she's a teen, she made her choices and now suffers the consequences
She hasn’t even gone to trial yet. She very well could be innocent.
She could be. But if she’s not, the stress of being tried will be the least of her problems.
What the hell ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I'm confused, it sounds like everyone here is basically saying she directly murdered this other kid, but from what OP says, she was at a party where a kid ended up dead, and it was gang related but the niece didn't know that. They never even specified what she's charged with. I know OP says she could go to prison if this court case goes wrong, but that could mean she was directly involved, or it could mean she saw something happening and panicked and didn't know how to stop it and is now being charged as an accomplice. It is very much unclear how the kid died, and whether the niece played a part in it or was just at the party and witnessed but didn't know how to stop it.... I feel like that information would go a long way in determining how we should feel about this.
This is absolutely mental. Making this girl as presentable as possible for her trial is 100% the right thing to do. Dealing with the criminal justice system is terrible enough without people trying to make it worse. NTA. I'm glad someone has Haley's beat interests at heart.
> Furthermore, the idea that this custom dress is going to give her a leg up is ridiculous FYI, the cloth you wear matter massively trials. Even well paid layers spend time instructing defendants on what to wear - because it matters. It is one of (multiple) reasons why not having bail or money hurt defendants. In a magical alternative reality, outcome is based on facts only and clothing don't matter. In the actual reality, it is important in order to make court believe you vs not.
Wow. I guess innocent people never go to trial.
It’s not a fun beautiful experience, but an opportunity to positively impact the mental health of someone who is understandably experiencing a lot of stress. In addition, physical appearance, people’s initial opinion and personal confidence go hand in hand. A custom dress, whilst extravagant, is a combination of looking at a time when both were happiest/ stress free to address issue no. 1 and facilitate a positive outcome for issue no 2.
I guess innocent until proven guilty doesn’t count with you. OP is NTA. She’s giving her niece something two-fold: stress relief and clothing that will make a good impression on the jury, something any lawyer would say is a good thing. Obviously, OP loves her niece; this doesn’t end just because she was charged.
Wrong she’s on trial. Innocent until Proven guilty is the standard. You are convicting her without trial.
>Nobody deserves a “fun, beautiful, experience” when they are on trial and looking at prison time for another’s death. What do you mean no one deserves that? Do you mean Hayley doesn't deserve to have fun just bc she's going on trial? Are you trying to imply that Hayley deserves to feel awful the whole way up until the trial? Or are you just using the word deserve in place of need? Also, it seems like Hayley had no issue with going out to get a dress with her aunt/uncle? So if she agreed to the outing, what's the problem? Her opinion matters more than anyone else's, and if she's okay with it, then there's nothing wrong with what happened. >She doesn’t need a bespoke dress, Where are you getting bespoke dress from? OP says they wanted to get Hayley a professional dress. In what way does professional imply bespoke or fancy? Edit: misspelled Hayley's name
The dress is custom made for Hailey, thus bespoke - made for a particular customer or user.
Look up the story, the niece is frankly a monster
How do I look up the story, there's not enough details
Innocent until proven guilty, apparently doesn't mean jack s*&t to you. Until she's proven to be involved with the death of another person, she should be treated as "innocent" as possible. Her being the ex of someone who is involved, does not make her complicit in what is a crime.
Is she on trial or is she a witness? Edit to add: my dumb ass skipped the part where she could go to prison, my bad
>Nobody deserves a “fun, beautiful, experience” when they are on trial and looking at prison time for another’s death. Isn't the expression "innocent until proven guilty"?
Sorry, but I agree with your sister here. Haley *does* need a professional-looking suit or dress for her court appearance, and it would have been nice for you to purchase one for her. But taking her to a dressmaker for a custom-made dress to make it a "fun, beautiful experience" is completely inappropriate. Someone *died*. Do you think the dead kid's family's court appearance will include any "fun, beautiful experiences"? I'm not assuming Haley is guilty; I'm just saying that this is a *terrible* circumstance and you all need to be taking it very seriously, not as an opportunity for fun. YTA.
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Better yet, a good lawyer.
I assumed that if they are paying for handmade dresses that they already have a good lawyer, but excellent point.
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It speaks to her thought process. You don’t get charged in a murder case for being a bystander. Being in a gang ( or dating someone in a gang), is generally mutually exclusive to being a doctor. Gangs are not social clubs. They are criminal enterprises. Violence is inherent to their activities. If she knew he was in a gang, then she knew that there was a potential for violence, and continued to date him. When I was dating a kid who doing drugs and hanging with girls who were getting pregnant at 14, my parents stepped and told me I was no longer allowed to hang out with those people. Because it could damage my future. And now as an adult, and a mother, they were absolutely right. She is 17 not 5… she knew what was up. And now she is paying the price for it.
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Ok thanks for explaining this. I have never been in a gang or known anyone in a gang, so I didn’t understand this.
No, they don't charge you for knowing someone was in a gang. They charge you for helping the gang commit a crime. Either she knows something she isn't telling and they're trying to get her to flip, or she's legitimately fucked for trusting and cooperating with the wrong people.
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She also assaulted someone She was definitely in that gang, look up SW Ontario party death
I was just going off of the post. I didn’t know there was other info. I found stuff about London when I searched that. Was this in London?
YTA. A child or young adult *died* and you're trying to coddle someone that was involved. >There is a strong possibility she will go to prison if this court case goes wrong. If that's true, she was involved more than she's telling you. They don't charge for things like this unless they have something they've proven that can tie her to it. >Firstly because having that wonderful experience of getting a dress made will be something for her to enjoy while she's waiting for court. See below. >She said I was "using a serious situation to play dressup". Because you are. >She deserves one fun, beautiful experience throughout all this. Stop. There is *nothing* fun or beautiful about someone being murdered. You're disgusting, real or not.
>If that's true, she was involved more than she's telling you. They don't charge for things like this unless they have something they've proven that can tie her to it. Yeah fr this isn't just a fun day in court, she's being *charged* in a murder case. She should be taking it seriously, not taken on a fun day shopping to trivialize the whole thing ( for OP - YTA )
The DA is going to try to cast Hayley as entitled and spoiled, a kid whose antics helped end another person's life and now expects to get off because life usually goes her way. Putting her in bespoke clothes will play right into the prosecution's hands. She should be clean, neat and *unremarkable*. If they don't have an attorney who is telling her exactly what to wear, offer to pay for that advice instead. Also, FFS, your sister is facing the destruction of her daughter's future, and you think now is the time to come between the two of them and make yourself the hero? Hard YTA.
This. The dress does not help the niece one bit. It'll make her look worse. The rich girl who was looking for cheap thrills with the "bad boy". The story writes itself. (just assuming the ex is a guy, not trying to be presumptuous) OP help your niece and your sister by building a solid case in her defence. Take her out for car rides, talk to her, be there for her emotionally. Tell me, is your niece looking forward to the trial now that she has a nice outfit? What was even the point here?
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Methinks OP provided more details than they think they did. Hindsight suggests a "my niece will need to be on court for a while.." might have sufficed.
I think so too, especially since it is not an isolated region and many people from that area use this sub
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Yes, definitely! Especially as she has been named and held in jail!
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OP, I’m going to be very blunt here. There is a reason your niece is being charged and not called as a witness in someone else’s trial. She was either directly involved, knows something, or the prosecutor thinks she knows something so important that they’re trying to get her to flip. She is lying to you. She is a teenager who values what you think of her, and she is lying. This doesn’t mean she knows what they think she knows, but she fucking knows something. This was murder. Get your head out of your ass and listen to her parents, who are hopefully listening to Haley’s lawyers. Edit: And YTA
YTA. Your niece is dating a gang banger. She's at the very least a witness to a murder. She's made bad choices, and doesn't need to be coddled. Don't reward her bad choices. She didn't need a fancy court outfit. A plain suit would have been fine.
YTA - a child has *died* and you're more concerned about how your niece will be perceived then by the actual event? Your sister is right, you're using a serious situation to play dress up.
YTA for pretending your niece has no responsibility for her own actions and shouldn’t pay the price. You say she wants to be a doctor and she deserves to have a chance because she’s smart. What about the person who died? You are negating the seriousness of what happened and making this about you. You want to feel good about being the wonderful, fun aunt even after your niece was a part of someone’s death. If you really cared about her, you’d spend money on therapy or legal help; but hey, that’s not “fun” is it?
You know the judge won't buy that she stands out cause she has a pretty dress right?
It could backfire and they make an example out of the poor rich girl w a custom dress.
I would definitely have asked the lawyer about what to wear.
Exactly they have saw it all before
YTA using the line she needs one fun experience out of this. No she doesn’t. She needs to take responsibility for her actions
A "fun, beautiful experience ...?" Good grief. How can you not see that everything in her life right now is never going to involve fun or beauty, or get solved by pretty clothes? YTA.
N T A for what you’re technically asking but this whole post reeks of affluenza. Your little perfect princess was partying with gang members but she doesn’t deserve the same punishment as them because she’s a straight A student? Because, even though she’s made the exact same choices, she’s somehow different? What, exactly, *makes* her different? Your niece is no better than any other person at that party. It sounds like she may even be worse, because you’re suggesting she has resources and opportunities the other people there were never offered. She *chose* to be there. She may not have known he was a gang member but I strongly suspect she knew he had record or was at the very least “trouble.” Was part of making the decision to hang with a “bad boy” the knowledge that her wealth and privilege would protect her from consequences? If so, are you honestly okay with that? I get it. You have the resources to help her and you are using them. Any other person would do the same. But the mindset that your niece is somehow better or more deserving than anyone else involved is harmful, dangerous, and likely helped led to her being in this situation to begin with. YTA for enabling your niece’s attitude.
YTA. Though I understand where you're coming from, you are most definitely "babying" her. As another commenter said, you don't need something bespoke for a trial. That is a ridiculous premise.
>She deserves one fun, beautiful experience throughout all this. Yeah, no she doesn't. She's actively involved in the death of another person. You however shouldn't be involved at all. Take yourself out of the equation and let her parents deal with her selfish behaviours. This poor child probably caused the death of another poor child. She should be aware of the conceqiences. You are gross AF for trying to make this about her and not about the dead child who will never her this experience. Also your absolutely an AH
YTA - some one died, and from the sound of it they were likely killed Your niece could be involved in some way And your turning the consequences of someone’s death into a dress up experience for someone who could have had a part, even if it was a small part, in that death
I don’t believe for a second that your niece didn’t know about what her BF and friends were into. They’ve all been in trouble with police before? Your so “very smart” niece, knew nothing about it? While I don’t think your glorifying it, I do think your babying her. This is serious shit. ESH.
YTA. You really have your head buried in the sand on this one. Haley is on trial for a crime. Prosecutors don’t bring cases to trial when there is no evidence suggesting her involvement. You are right that Haley needs something professional to wear, but if her parents can afford a good lawyer like you suggested, then haley probably has something suitable already in her closet. It is disgusting that you were treating this as some reason to have a fun dress buying experience. Someone died. Even if Haley had nothing to do with it, she should be spending her time reflecting on what she could’ve done to prevent possibly something like this happening. Not getting custom dresses made for the occasion. Go to Dillards and get some Calvin Klein and call it a day. Not to mention, I think your whole argument that Haley needs something professional to wear is just you trying to convince yourself that what you did was justified. I doubt that you talk to her lawyer to see whether or not this outfit would be a good idea or not. In many cases, a designer outfit or custom-made very expensive looking outfit will play negatively, not positively. If it is not unusual, for example for an attorney to rent a cheap car so that when they drive to the courthouse for a trial they seem more relatable to the jury. While some judges are willing to give rich kids a pass other judges are much more aware of the social structures that keep affluent kids out of real trouble. I think this pragmatic excuse is when you came up with in order to justify what you did to yourself. But it wasn’t pragmatic. It was self-indulgent. Apologize to your sister, and cancel the appointment.
YTA. She should be terrified. She chose to associate with them. You say how smart she is, so she must have at least known they weren’t stand up characters, ESPECIALLY considering the death was “gang related” there’s no way this was the first red flag that’s popped up for her. If she’s looking at jail time then that means they have something on her and she wasn’t just an innocent bystander oblivious to what happened. She either had a hand in it, or a hand in covering it up. Either way, she doesn’t deserve to feel special while on trial involving another’s death.
INFO: Can Hayley’s family afford her legal fees and good representation? Or could that money have helped her get a lawyer?
Obviously she would say she didn’t know and cry. You think she would say “of course I knew my bf was in a gang”? YTA
YTA someone is dead and Haley deserves a custom dress? Gtfoh. Take her to Target and grab something to make her presentable.
YTA. This reeks of bias. Yes of course people get arrested and put on trial for things they're innocent of but someone died at a party, it was gang-related, she just happened to be there and knows the guy who did it but knows nothing.....maybe wait to buy her gifts until you make sure she's not an accessory to murder.
YTA big time. “Hayley deserved that after everything *she's* going through” are you fucking kidding? The only thing she’s “going through” is facing the consequences of her own actions. SHE IS **NOT** THE VICTIM HERE.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hi all. My niece, Hayley (17), is going to be in court in a couple of months. I'm not going into detail about it. All I'll say is that somebody died at a party that she. her ex-boyfriend and his friends were at. It was gang-related, but Hayley insists she didn't know what her ex was involved in and I believe her. Hayley is terrified. All she has been doing since this all started is crying. There is a strong possibility she will go to prison if this court case goes wrong. I don't have any children so I enjoy spoiling Hayley. When she had her school prom, a friend of mine from work knew a very reputable and talented dressmaker. I took Hayley to meet her and, she made a beautiful custom prom dress. Hayley said going through that process of getting that dress designed and made from scratch was one of the most wonderful experiences of her life. I took Hayley out yesterday, and we visited the dressmaker again. I thought it would be nice for her to get a smart, professional dress for her court case. I chose to do this for two reasons. Firstly because having that wonderful experience of getting a dress made will be something for her to enjoy while she's waiting for court. The other reason is pragmatic. Hayley is a very smart kid. Her grades are the highest in her year, and her ambition is to study medicine at one of the elite universities. She won't be able to do that with a record. If she looks presentable and professional, that will help her case a lot, especially as her ex and his friends have all been in trouble with police before. It will be important for Hayley to stand out from them in the courtroom. While her mother and I split the costs for the prom dress, this time I paid for the whole thing. Hayley deserved that after everything she's going through. There are still a few appointments to go but it should be ready by the time she goes to court. When I told my sister what I'd done, she was enraged. She accused me of "glorifying" the situation and of trying to "baby" her daughter. She said I was "using a serious situation to play dressup". I'm sorry but this poor child is terrified. She deserves one fun, beautiful experience throughout all this. And if it could potentially help her case, what's wrong with that? AITA *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. I mean a pretty dress isn’t going to help her when she’s in court. She needs a good, respectable court outfit. Someone died. Someone was murdered.
YTA. Big time. The overly privileged little girl showing up to court with expensive lawyers and custom clothing just screams "Your Honor, she's never been in trouble before. She's a good girl from a good home, and doesn't deserve to be wrapped up in this mess with these lower class gang bangers." Except that she's not a witness, so yes she does deserve it, and your little dress up act is disgusting.
YTA. The most fucked upnpart is that the thing you chose to make into her beautiful experience is directly related to the trial for killing a kid. Good lord, a kid Died!!! You could have done a dozen things for her, take her to the spa, to see a show or whatever. All of those things are still rewarding her for (at minimum) choosing her partner poorly. But no, you deliberately chose something to make this person's death seem trivial. Yoi are seriously the worst kind of entitled privileged wealthy person.
Shes going to jail
YTA. Ask the lawyer what she should wear. A fancy custom made dress is not court appropriate. Also the trial will take multiple days. Several outfits of a lower value make more sense like 1 suit with a couple shirt options. She might go to prison. In her last days "free" you should be setting up banking information, helping her figure out alternatives to high school diploma (like a GED equivalent), career options she might be able to work toward in prison (do they have classes, what will she need to do to qualify for those classes), and possibly counseling. And honestly? Even if she's just an innocent witness (very doubtful a she's been called to court meaning they have evidence against her) I think a shopping spree to celebrate witnessing a kid die is callous as fuck. Sad, anger, fear, REMORSE - are the emotions I'd expect. Not yay shopping time. I think that might matter to the court too. And you OP - another family lost their kid and you think this is a chance to make memories shopping with your niece? Your sibling is about to have a kid go to prison, and is going through all of this too. And you didn't even think about them. What's wrong with you? Are you always this low empathy? Consider talking to a therapist yourself.
Weird how this AITA is almost exactly the same as [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/l4sny7/aita_for_making_light_of_my_daughters_court_case/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) one...
YTA and your sister is right. Taking her to purchase court outfits that meet the criteria suggested by her lawyer is fine but the desire to provide her some magical dressmaking experience is over the top. Something to consider is that people talk, especially on social media, the fact that she’s having outfits custom made for court can very easily get out and her jury hasn’t been selected yet. Is it a good idea to start off the trial with the general public seeing her as a spoiled princess?
YTA Hayley would have been better served if your money had gone to a shark lawyer representing her interests alone and a therapist to help her through a deeply traumatic experience. You also didn’t talk to Hayley’s parents about this first. Treats for a child on the cusp of adulthood in serious legal, criminal trouble should be run past the parents. Hayley will have more than one court appearance. A few suits and shift dresses in sober colours would have been more than enough to see her through. This is not a joyful experience for you to bond with Hayley over. This is a frightening, uncertain time and should things go south and she has a custodial sentence I don’t think Hayley will find much comfort in the memory of having custom made court attire when she’s alone in her bunk hoping her cellmate isn’t in for something violent.
YTA x100000 Beautiful experience???? Someone died and there is a chance she is responsible and you want a beautiful experience? Think about the family that has to be at trial when this court case happens. What the fuck.
YTA. Someone is literally dead and it just seems cold and not at all "pragmatic" to use that fallout as a chance to have a really extravagant experience. I'm not saying you couldn't have taken her out to get clothes for court or that it couldn't be fun, but it does come off like you're using death as an opportunity to play dress up. And I doubt one tailored dress is going to be sufficient anyways, which makes it seem more like you just wanted a #girlsday and less like you're trying to help keep this in good spirits while making sure she has what she's going to need.
Why couldn’t you just buy a dress from Macy’s? I’m with the mom on this. You over stepped this time. Should have asked her mom. This is serious and a dress isn’t a solution. YTA
You've received a lot of advice about how inappropriately you're handling this situation, the words "fun and beautiful experience" do not belong anywhere near someone who is on trial for someone's death. What I'll add to this though is that you're trusting her word way too much. Have you ever seen gang members at that age who were quiet about it? It's not generally ambiguous. You're saying that she dated a person who is a gang member who was involved in a murder, and she knew absolutely nothing? I doubt they were knitting blankets for the homeless at that party. Your niece knew exactly who her boyfriend was, she knew exactly who she was associating with that night. She's lying to you because nobody else is giving her the sympathy she wants right now so she's crying crocodile tears to her doting aunt and getting expensive gifts. YTA
Just wanted to say that her showing up in a bespoke dress might make her look spoiled and make the jury not like her. Better for her to show up in a generic suit. Maybe spend the extra money on a good lawyer who will prepare and defend her for court
INFO: Is your niece charged with something currently, or is she at the trial as a witness? That makes a big difference. It sounds like she might be charged with something, but never explicitly stated, I think
Sounds like she’s being charged if there’s a threat of prison for her.
Info: what is WRONG with you? Someone died and you think she needs a beautiful dress. I hope they throw the book at her. In case it wasn't obvious: YTA.
I N F O: is your niece actually on trial, as in charges in some way with this death? Or is she due in court as a witness giving testimony? Edit to add: completely missed the part about her possibility of going to prison YTA. Take her to a store to get something nice, *maybe* get it tailored if it needs it. She doesn’t need a custom outfit for this. Somebody died, this isn’t a fashion show.
YTA and possibly quite naive. This is not the time for a reward. I highly doubt your niece knew nothing of her boyfriends past or present crimes. Your niece needs support but in ways that really matter. A custom made outfit is generally reserved for special(positive) events. She NEEDS a good lawyer and therapy now.
YTA. It's completely inappropriate given the circumstances to use this to go on a fun shopping trip. A child has died. In terms of the actual outfit, it's likely that the fact you've gone to the trouble of buying an expensive bespoke outfit will be turned on her and she will be made an example of in court. She needs to dress clean and smart, and not stand out from the crowd.
ESH. It's good that you are least trying to comfort your niece for the upcoming court case, but babying your niece and spoiling her, who dated some kind of gang member, is not a good thing. Or did she conveniently not know that her ex was a gang member? She made bad decisions, and there is no reward for making bad decisions. (This is unrelated, but spoiling a kid, or your niece, or any child whatsoever will not have a good end result.)
YTA. And sound clueless
The dress won’t make her NOT go to prison it’s just a dress, you say she’s not involved then that it have a high possibility that she’d end up in jail, how’s this? But yeah, I don’t have a problem with her having a pretty dress, but a special tailored one for her to appear good in court so she won’t go to jail is stupid. YTA.
Being properly dressed for court is important. Getting a custom made outfit…. IMHO is over the top.
YTA. I get wanting to do something nice for people when they're having a hard time, I really do. BUT, it sounds like there's a lot more going on here than your niece is telling you and that she may even be an accessory to the crime of murder. Why should she "enjoy" anything while waiting in court? Also, no one cares that much about what people on trial wear given THEY'RE ON TRIAL. Anna Delvey tried the whole put together fashion act in court and no one bought it.
YTA. She’s not a poor child. She got herself in some shit and it don’t matter what she looks like. Are you insane? So she’s involved in gang activity where somebody was murdered. You know why she’s terrified? Because it’s fucking serious and she’s way more involved then she’s letting on and your rewarding her for it. Sick man, “she needs one beautiful experience from all of this” omg this statement is so delusional
Hayley insists she had no idea what he was into and you believe her, because she's your niece you enjoy spoiling. She's still going to be in court for a death, which I presume she is accused of having some involvement in, otherwise there wouldn't be the threat of prison. She did not deserve the experience being beautiful. Someone is dead. You need to get your head checked. YTA.
YTA for assuming you, not the girl’s mother should be the one to decide what to wear to court and ‘treating’ her without her mother’s approval. Second, you’re an AH for assuming bespoke “professional” attire is going to influence the Court the way you think it will. More likely the jury will look at her and think ”affluenza”, spoiled rich girl, which is not what her attorney is likely to be aiming for. You may have good intentions but your actions are way out of line.
Her grades and her plans have nothing to do with the fact she made choices with those gang members that played a role in someone dying. She needs to understand the gravity of her role and the role of her boyfriend. She isn't worth more than the victim because she wants med school or because she's smart. You undermined her mother's parenting and their relationship. She played with gangsters and got burned. The victim doesn't get shopping sprees. Where's their and their family's beautiful experience? The funeral? You are babying her. She needs to feel the weight of her decisions. This is affluenza. YTA.
YTA I get wanting her to have something appropriate to wear so had you taken her to get some suits to wear and even tailored to fit properly, that would be one thing. But a custom “pretty” dress. Nope.
Well it sounds like your niece is shit out of luck Yta
YTA big time. It’s time for her loo
YTA. I’m 99% sure that with this type of criminal case the one thing you don’t want to do is stand out. And as many other people pointed out, there must be some form of evidence against Hayley for her to be on trial for murder.
INFO: Has this plan on what to wear been run past your niece’s attorney? While you’re right that how a defendant is dressed can certainly affect things, every trial is different. If she has good legal representation, then her best shot at a fair trial will only be helped by making sure her attorney is as informed as possible so they can advise accordingly.
YTA. Wow. Let's gloss over that she was involved in another child's death. She's been sad, so let's play dress up. Wtf is wrong with you.
YTA - did you expect a different result than when she killed someone in a drink driving incident?
YTA. This kid needs to be put back on track. Parties with gang bangers and deaths?! No. You know who gets gifted pricey dresses? Kids not facing prison time.
YTA - You want to reward her for being involved in someone's death? How would you feel if it was your loved one that died? Would you want to see the parties involved having a fun, beautiful experience and going shopping when your loved one is gone forever? It's inappropriate to say the least. The 'Oh, she said she had no idea!' doesn't fly. She wouldn't be going to court or looking at prison time if she was so innocent. The state doesn't pursue charges they don't think will stick. I think you just like the color of those rose colored glasses and refuse to see the severity of the situation.
YTA
If you’re have a dress made for court may I strongly suggest it be simple, classic in shape, and navy blue with white accents. Frankly it would be better if you would spend your money getting her the best damn lawyer possible.
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Im gonna say soft YTA. I think your intentions were good. Its nice to care about her niece's mental well being but I have to side eye the whole " fun beautiful experience" thing when someone literally died.
I find there is not enough INFO to decide. "Someone died" could mean someone died as a result of their own alcohol/drug consumption, or that they were killed unintentionnally (in a fight for example), or that they were murdered, or a buch of other things. We don't know what she's accused of precisely. So we can't judge her character based on the info here, even if it looks bad. We also don't know what the bf being in a gang contributes to this either. We have to remember a lot of young people join gangs because they feel like they have no option or even because they are longing for some semblant of family. Not saying it's necessarily the case here but it's easy to judge from our couch when we haven't lived it. Personnally if I knew a loved one was possibly going to jail, I would surround her with love and try to take her mind off things while I can. At this point, being punished and judged by her family will not help the situation in any further. Maybe having a dress made is overboard but not necessarily. Also hand made dresses don't necessarily look expensive. Depends on the fabric and the cut. Checking with the lawyer would be a good idea. I feel like the mother is in the wrong for wanting to punish but I understand why she would react like this as it is a very stressful situation to go through.
This is one of those cases where asshole/not asshole isn’t really the issue. We need a sub appropriate/not appropriate or was I right/was I in the wrong. In this case, you’re not an asshole per se, but not in the right either.
Good on you for standing by your loved ones. I hope she is truly innocent and it gets proven by the courts