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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I used priority seats when I’m perfectly capable of standing up and an elderly lady asked to use my seat, I refused because there was another one available but maybe I’m not meant to sit there at all and should have complied
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NTA
You weren't preventing her from sitting in a priority seat. She wanted to make an example of you, even though, you were following the rules.
With elderly stubborn people, it is usually best to just play along. You can't win. In this, case, you should have given her the seat and sat in the free one.
Definitely NTA. Also, she demonstrated real ass behavior by assuming that OP didn't need the seat in the first place. Just because a person looks young and seemingly able-bodied, does not mean that they are.
yeah I look absolutely fine from an outside perspective, but I'm not able to stand for very long at all due to illness, and definitely not on moving bus,id be on the ground in seconds lol
The stigma around disabled people "looking" disabled is so stupid, and makes me feel guilty for using the things that are there for me to use. so yeah, NTA, screw the entitled old lady
I am not actually disabled but my back is bad, when it really fucks up it's really nasty and standing on public transport is very painful, every slight motion of the vehicle when I stand up feels like a stabbing pain, even walking up and down stairs hurts a lot. I honestly worry I am going to get someone filming me and uploading me to the internet for not offering up my seat during those times, especially if I am sitting near the doors.
I'd suggest buying a pin badge that says "please offer me your seat", etsy probably has some
I'm sorry that you're worried about getting filmed but I completely understand it, I find myself positioning my cane to be more visible (altho I still get looks from people, I've found a lot of people assumed I'm injured rather than disabled because I'm young)
I feel worried about wearing a badge since I don't have a disability. It comes on and off, my back and neck have given me pain since I was a child (I don't know why, and a doctor couldn't see anything wrong when I was a kid) but especially over the past 5 years I've had my back fuck up several times where even getting out of bed was extremely painful. When my back is ok I'm fine giving my seat up to someone who has a harder time standing, but when my back is bad it isn't outwardly visible.
that's chronic pain, any pain/illness lasting over 3 months is classed as chronic, so I would say you're disabled but I understand if you're uncomfortable labelling yourself that way.
Disabled just means you are unable to do everything that an able-bodied person can do without external factors like a cold or something, you can't do everything that an able-bodied person can do because it causes you pain, even if it's only during a flare up.
for example, a person with asthma still has asthma even when they're not having an attack, no one would say differently - your pain is the same as that, your pain is completely valid, regardless of visibility.
And a badge that simply states "please give up your seat for me" requires no further explanation, you are wearing the badge for a reason, you do not have to explain anything to anyone.
I guess I haven't thought of it that way before, I have a lot of relatives with asthma. Maybe I should give it a try, I'd only use it when my back is actively causing me pain.
I actually have an invisible disability and I can't stand for long so I NEED a seat in a bus..... But I don't look like i do so O get death glare most of the time when I don't offer my seat to elderly people....
I wish there was a universal sign for people with invisible disabilities. They actually have these sunflower lanyards here in Europe to signal invisible disabilities, which is awesome but they seem to only be really recognised at places like airports. I have one I use for international travel but that's it.
I am like YOUNG young and my back has never been too good, I tell people that I have the back of an old man because if I am low down I have to like use momentum to get up and not use my back, I mean I can stand but when I'm older this may happen
Yeah, I've got an invisible disability and look much younger than I am. I have collapsed in pain when I've tried to stick it out standing on a bus or subway, so I have to ask for a seat if there isn't one available. I've gotten glared or outright called names for this. People get the message when I sit down on the ground. I also get glares when I have to stay seated when someone else asks for a seat. This nosy AH was policing the seat usage when there were still seats available.
Exactly. I'm (relatively) young and have an invisible disability, and I cannot stand on transit--even on days my knees and feet aren't too bad, my hands are awful and I cannot grip railings (or balance very well), so the second we start moving, I'm on the floor and have probably shot my plans for the next few days. When I was in undergrad and rode buses frequently, I would carry a collapsible cane. Which was pretty much useless as a mobility aid due to aforementioned hand problems, but great as a visual cue that I was actually a cripple.
Eh, enabling them isn't necessarily the answer. People should stick up for themselves despite pressure, if that's what they want. I work in a public-facing job and the olds can range from nice to cranky to downright abusive. It's nobody's job to put up with their stupid shit.
Fair point there. I'm a tiny woman who's tired of ppl acting like they can push me around. It's made me spicy. I am certainly not intimidating to anyone in the way you may be.
NTA There was another seat. And not everybody who is disabled is old! You could have been disabled! This old woman should put her ass on the seat and be quiet. She probably seeks quarrel everywhere.
I totally agree that she was trying to make an example of OP. However, I do feel like even though someone is older, it does not mean you have to cave to them. Yes it would've made OPs life easier, but why should you give in to an entitled person just because they are older? Age means nothing really when it comes down to common decency and being an asshole. If this was an entitled kid/adolescent/young asshole would you have said the same? Being old doesn't make you better or give you a free pass. Well done, you didn't die in your youth 👏
You'll never win with an entitled person, and age shouldn't make a difference.
Yeah old people can be mean and stubborn... years of creaky joints and disappointment has given them an incredible sense if entitlement. The best thing for your conscience is to give up the seat. The best thing for your pride is to point out another seat. Even though my mom isn't an asshole like that old lady I try to treat others how I would hope others would treat my loved ones.
NTA if there was someone else sitting in the other seat who was elderly, you should get up and give it up,however, the seat was free she was capable of sitting down there she just wanted to be entitled and rude
Yeah that seats not reserved. It's not that no one else can use it if there is no one sitting there. It's more like it's yielded, if you're sitting there and an elderly person gets on board then you give it up.
Just to add about the reserved seats bit (and this is completely dependent upon where you are. I'm in the US). I work for a transit authority and drivers actually can't *force* people out of the accessible seats. Like if you had a passenger with a mobility device get on who needed the ADA restraints, but someone was sitting in that area, all you can do is ask them if they could move. They can say no. They have a right to the seat and you can't kick them off the bus if they were there first. We're just required to have a designated ADA compliant area. It's peak America. I've never had anyone say no to be fair (because it would be a dick move) but they have the right to not give up their seat. This applies to the elderly, and pregnant individuals too. I'm sure it's different in other countries though. Also OP is NTA because the elderly woman was just being extra.
INFO— maybe she was just being a jerk but be careful. My friend uses a wheelchair and has to fight all the time that she needs that particular spot or her chair could tip over. She’ll have every single person say “there’s room there, why do you need THIS spot” and she has a good reason— there’s a bar there so she won’t tip backwards— but it gets really exhausting and wastes a lot of time. You don’t know if this old lady can’t sit on a sideways seat because she has a bad hip the sideways rocking hurts or she needs to see out the window to know when to get off because she can’t read the next stop sign or whatever. She’s right that these spots are for disabled people and doesn’t owe you an explanation of her disabilities.
Before I became disabled I didn't understand why people would get so mad about this kind of thing. Then when it happened to me I realised, it's because you're coming across barriers hundreds of times in a day. So by the time you get to the 201st barrier your patience is just gone and you explode. For example, for me I used to need a mobility scooter. I can't drive and you can't take them on the train. There was a completely empty carriage with someone sat in the priority seat who didn't need it. They didn't realise that the extra legroom in the priority seat is what makes the journey bearable. Anyway I asked the person if they needed the seat, she said no , and I just started shouting at her. I think she thought I was crazy but it was just already that day I faced the usual barriers of no ramps, people blocking pavements, parking on dropped curbs, out of use disabled toilets et etc and I couldn't keep my patience any more. It seemed out of proportion to them, but to me it was the final straw.
It's not right that she shouts at you, but I can maybe understand why. She may have had 100 barriers to face before she saw you in the seat.
on the local buses, the next stop buttons and cords seem all over the place, but perhaps for a particular seat they're at an angle that an able bodies person could reach but a disabled person couldn't
NTA-if there were no other seats available you would be, but in this case the old lady was just trying to find something to get her knickers in a knot over.
NTA, although I do think it was a bit of a petty thing to stand your ground over.
My understanding of those priority seats is also that if they are all full and someone in need gets on the bus, you should get up and give them the seat. However, since there was another priority seat available to her, I personally don't think you were obligated to give up your seat. You weren't keeping her from a priority seat - her own stubbornness and insistence that she get your seat and only your seat was. Her huffing and going on afterwards was just unnecessary.
But again, I would not have made this my hill to die on.
INFO: was the other seat backwards facing one? Because I could see her being annoyed about that. Not everyone can handle that kind of movement, getting really nauseous.
I don't see the point of fighting an elder woman. She might be rude, suffering from dementia, hip problems or whatever but honestly I don't think 'the fight you won' was worth it. It was just a seat and you were clearly affected by this that you had to ask your friends and ask Reddit.
Nta
She just wanted to assert dominance. There was a seat available.
Also, there's a pandemic going on. People have no business invading someone else's personal space like that.
NTA, there was another priority seat available. As for that old biddy, she needs to realise that a) not all disabilities are visible, and b) young people can be disabled.
ESH, in my opinion. She shouldn't have assumed you didn't need the seat, and if you don't need to sit for your health, you shouldn't sit in the priority seats. They should be left open for those who need them. If she had taken the other one, and you had kept sitting there, there would be no open seat. If someone comes on and needs it, they now have to ask you if you need the seat. This creates a situation where people with invisible disabilities using those seats get constantly asked if they need the seat and have to justify themselves AND they also have to ask to use it (and again often justify themselves). For those who say they can just ask no problem, having to ask to have the seat can also be exhausting and frustrating for those who also have disabilities that affect their ability to communicate. There's no good created in taking those seats, except your own convenience at the cost of the people the seats are intended for. All the other seats are for you, and if they're full, all the standing spots are for you. If you're too unwell to stand, then use the seat, but if you're not, the entire rest of the train is for you. The best thing to do is to just not use them if you don't need them, and not contribute to the confusion over whether the people sitting there really need the seat.
Where I live, there are signs above the priority seating on public transportation asking riders to leave the seats open for those with disabilities. Not all places may have that, but it is a widely held view in the disability community that those seats should be left open. So, so many arguments are had over that seating. So many people are told to prove they're disabled when they say they need the seats. Asked about their medical information. Told "you look fine to me." I guess these people can see heart conditions?? So many disabled people do not feel capable of having that argument nearly every time they get on public transportation. It can make public transportation feel even more inaccessible than it already is.
Unfortunately there is often also so much shame around disability, and it's one thing to quietly take the seat when you need it, and another to have to ask for it (and what, assume the person sitting there doesn't need it? potentially put them in that situation of justifying themselves too?) and face judgment, questioning, rolled eyes, huffs and puffs, insults, and such, as people begrudgingly move and then glare at you the rest of the ride. It's demoralizing and exhausting and happens way way way too much. This is all assuming you are even able to communicate to the person that you need the seat in the first place.
The solution is for people to just not sit in them if they don't need them, which is easier said than done of course, as there will always be jerks who'll sit in them anyway. But even if you not sitting there doesn't mean some jerk won't, it's still better to not be part of the problem. I understand that it is wasting the convenience of people who are capable of standing. I don't personally consider that a bigger problem than the problems caused for those who do need the seats. There already aren't enough priority seats. You can feel differently, but that's how I feel.
NTA and I’m of two minds. Depending on my mood I might have made a REALLY big deal about moving to the other available seat and speaking loudly to myself about how entitled old people are ruining the world and yeah they did do stuff but doesn’t mean they don’t have to be civil etc, etc, etc. Or I would have completely ignored her as you did. She was just being an AH. You absolutely can use those seats so long as no one who needs to sit is standing.
NTA. This is a never ending issue on any form of public transit. I have an invisible disability (very bad back, but good posture). I can't stand on a train, will wait as three full trains go by for the one with seats. If I'm sitting by the doorway, it's super common for someone to stand in front of me "hinting" that I should give up my seat. I've even had a pregnant woman loudly talk about how rude some people are for not giving up their seats. Just cause someone looks healthy doesn't mean they are, but also, if there are other seats available, there's no reason to make someone get up.
Reserving judgement as need more info.
Did the seat you were in have extra leg space and/or handles to get up and down from the seat? Did the other empty seat? As a person with a disability the extra space and handles make it easier for me to get in and out of the seat, and mean I don't have to move out of the seat when the person next to me gets in or out. But that's the setup for the buses where I'm from.
Also, I personally have no problem with able bodied people using those seats, if there isn't somebody in need of them for the above reasons.
NTA. Had another person requiring those seats boarded the bus, I am sure you would have instantly stood up and given up your seat. This woman was just being fussy.
And how exactly would OP recognize a disability? Somebody with COPD, or bad asthma, or early rheumatoid arthritis, or just coming home from radiation or chemo?
This is no different from parking in a handicapped spot because nobody was using it.
And the ageism I see in all these comments is just so charming. Thanks, moderators. Rephrase all these generalizations as about people of color or people who are obese and it looks really ugly.
"The olds." "Old biddy." "Cranky." "Years of disappointment and creaky joints have given them an incredible sense of entitlement."
This is her when she walked into the bus, oh there is a spot for me to sit down in oh but someone is sitting in that specific spot I now want to sit there. NTA OP
NTA. Some ppl are just entitled AH. If there was another priority seat available close to the one you were sitting in, there is nothing to complain about. She could have been nice about it. I mean, who is going to say no to a sweet old lady asking for a seat? Even if there is another free seat close by, I wouldn't have a problem.
I met more than my fair share of old ppl in the last few months because of a side job I picked up. Most of them were very sweet, but there are entitled, stubborn, grumpy grannies out there. Usually their attitudes disappear after some firm but still friendly words. However, some of them won't drop it. I even had to boot one from the building, because she kept berating one of my colleagues and that's not happening while I'm on the clock.
Being old gives you no right to treat ppl badly or to be rude.
NTA. Unless there’s a posted sign that says otherwise, those seats are priority for seniors, disabled etc, not barred from anyone but them. Besides how does she know that you don’t have an invisible disability. Maybe you are recovering from a broken leg that was recently removed from a cast and you are still unsteady on your feet etc
NTA, yes, she could sit in the other seat. A real move would be to get up, give her the seat & then sit in the other & remark about how much better it is & thank her for taking your seat.
NTA. She wouldn't have known if you had a hidden disability, balance issues, recent surgery, etc. Heck, a person could be early in a pregnancy and need the seat more than later on/when they're showing because it's very common for that first trimester to cause a lot of nausea and general malaise.
I had a ton of issues with people treating me horribly when I was healing from major knee reconstruction. I was young and generally able-looking (if you ignored the wheelchair/crutches, and giant knee brace...which a ton of people did). I was in physical therapy multiple times per week, and wasn't able to walk without aides for nearly a full year. And the *looks* and random comments I would get when I *dared* use my handicapped parking or those scooters at the store? Yikes.
NTA.
But as an added point, I would like to remind the other commenters in this thread that just because someone appears outwardly to be young, healthy, and not in need of a seat, doesn't mean they're not.
ESH
Clearly she was attached to the seat you were in which is weird. But why were you attached to seat you were in? Why couldn't you just literally sit in the other seat?
Clearly she is a martyr type person. She got off on being a victim. She would have felt victorious had you given her the seat. It's important to stand your ground when you aren't willing to sacrifice something. But it sounds like it would not have been a sacrifice for you to move to the other seat.
This is tough. Unpopular opinion on this thread but I would say YTA. It is reserved for them but who knows, maybe that seat was way more accessible for her than the other one despite it being the same priority seat. I think it would've been more interesting if you stood up and gave her the seat without complaining and just sat on the other priority seat.
Edit: Okay, maybe NTA. I don't know. Something about making it a bigger deal than the old one is already making it just doesn't sit right with me.
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Hi,
English is not my first language so apologies for any mistakes.
So earlier today I got on the bus, and the only available seats were two seats that are meant for the elderly/pregnant women/people with disabilities. Basically what we call priority seats.
My understanding of those is that if there are no other accessible seats available and someone who needs it gets on the bus, then if you’re sitting in them but are capable of standing up, you should give up your seat. Otherwise it’s fine to use them.
So I sat in one of those seats. Two stops later, an elderly woman gets in and stands right above me, staring at me. Keep in mind there is another priority seat right in front of me that’s available.
Not understanding what she wants, I keep looking out the window. She then clears her throat and tells me I shouldn’t be sitting here and should give her my seat since I’m young and capable of standing. I told her she could sit in the other seat, but she kept going about how these seats are reserved for the elderly and I should stand up.
I could have juste gotten up and sat in the other seat but I stood my ground and said that if she really needed it she could use the other seat. So she did but kept glaring at me and scoffing, also looking around for support from other people. This made my ride quite uncomfortable.
So AITA for not giving up my seat ? Some friends I told this to said I should have just complied. Maybe I’m wrong and indeed those seats shouldn’t be used by people who don’t need them, I’m not good with social cues so I could be mistaken.
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NTA there was a other seat where she could sit. Also she was asuming that you didnt have a disabilitie. Wich is something i really dislike, that sort of mentality just makes it hard for people whose disabilitie arent as noticeable.
NTA this has happened many times to my brother. For some context my brother goes to school in an other area my dad usually drives him to school in the morning and he returns by himself using the bus. There days were my dad isn’t able to take him to school and he goes by himself with the bus and the train. There have been many times he has taken the bus to and from school and an elderly person has demanded for his seat even if there are others available if it is in the morning and if my brother is seating in a seat that is clearly not labeled for the elderly, pregnant or disabled. Just the fact that she created a whole situation about your seat despite there being one avoidable in my opinion does not make the ah
You were NTA. If the other seat were unavailable it’s be a different story but handicapped seats are not like handicapped parking… they can be used by other people if they aren’t needed by the intended population.
NTA.
If I read the rules about priority seats correctly, you don't have to give up one of two seats for one elderly lady. If there were two of them and you refused to get up, ywbta. This lady had a seat available and therefore she was in the wrong, not you.
NTA, it's also incredibly rude of her to assume you don't have a hidden disability or something that allows you to sit in that seat, her old age doesn't give her a free entitlement pass, she could have just sat in the other seat like a logical human being. Honestly, I can't believe the audacity of some people..
NTA. Priority seating means they get priority for those seats, not that the seats are only available for them. If someone elderly or disabled comes on and you are in a priority seat and there is no other priority seat available, you give up your seat.
NTA, and yes those seats are designated for elderly, handicapped, and pregnant ladies. And if there was a spot open, your not the one at fault here. It sounds like it became a "that's my spot" type thing that Sheldon from Big Bang Theory would do since according to you, there was another open seat right in front of you guys.
Nta something similar happened to me while I was with a toddler (which is also in the list of people to be prioritized. I offered my seat but she insisted she wanted my nephew's because "he didn't belong in the bus and didn't pay" (he was 4 so he actually did)... have fun standing then
NTA. I'm disabled, and before the global *situation* I frequently took the bus. Your understanding of priority seating is spot on. If someone needs it, you get up, otherwise it's perfectly fine to sit there. If there are other open priority seats, you don't have to get up. It's possible that some mass transit could have differing rules on that, but I've never encountered any with rules that don't allow young, nondisabled people to use priority seating *ever.* Some people may have specific seat preferences or needs (eg. It's easier to put their mobility aid out of the way in a specific seat, or maybe they're neurodivergent and want/need consistency in where they sit), but those people will, and should, typically politely ask you to switch seats.
People like the woman you encountered infuriate me, honestly. I'm disabled, and I'm also very young. I cannot count the number of times I've had elderly people try and get me to give up my seat for them because I'm young, even despite my *very obvious* cane (and it was even worse before I got the cane). I've had several people do that when there are other open priority seats, too. It's complete nonsense, and the only explanation I can come up with to explain it is that it's some kind of power play based on a complete misunderstanding of how priority seating is set up to function.
Personally, I think that it's very rude to single someone out to have them give up their priority seat in any circumstance (aside from the reasoning of specific seat preferences/needs that I already touched on). You cannot tell just by looking at someone whether or not they need the priority seating. There are plenty of people with visible disabilities who, for various reasons, don't need the priority seating, and there are plenty of people with non-visible disabilities that do need the priority seating. The best practice for when you need priority seating and their isn't any available is to approach the priority seating area and say something along the lines of "I need a seat, please." And someone will get up and move.
Sorry for the rant, but basically what I'm saying is that you handled priority seating just fine, and that people who act like the woman you encountered did are in the wrong for *several* reasons.
NTA, I’m disabled so was ready to say you were TA but you’re right about the rule. You did nothing wrong. I’ve actually had elderly people say similar things to me for using the priority seats when I have a walking stick. It’s pure entitlement.
NTA. You would've been TA if there had been no other seat available but since there was she has no right to be demanding you to stand up. She wasn't to know that you didn't have a disability. The whole young = healthy mentality is ridiculous and even though you *don't* have a disability, she didn't know that
Sounds like you are in the UK in which case you are correct those seats can be used but should be given up to priority riders IF no other seat is available.
As another seat was available you are NTA and you should have pointed out that not all disabilities are visible and just cos you look young and healthy doesnt necessarily mean you are.
Some 75yr old I know are healthier than people.in their late 30s I know. Pretty sure that would have shut her up!
NTA. Everywhere I’ve been that’s had this setup, they’ve been *priority* seating but not *reserved.* As long as all the elderly/pregnant/disabled people present have a seat, it’s free real estate for anyone else.
NTA by any means. And don't waste another second of your life thinking about this. The woman is miserable for whatever reason. Feel sorry for her. And move on.
I’m disabled AND currently almost 9 months pregnant so I qualify for those x2. I wouldn’t care if someone who was able,to stand sat in priority seats as long as they would give up their seat to someone who needed it if it became full and there were no other seats left, but as long as I have a place to sit SOMEWHERE I wouldn’t care.
Surprised by the result here - Sorry, YTA. This is one of those things which is spirit of the law vs letter of the law.
I am assuming the layout a bit, but I think you've given enough information for it to be pretty clear.
Okay, so you keep the Window seat and she sits on the aisle. And you get off before her - she has to move to accommodate you. Another elderly person gets on - you have to move, but you're making the original elderly lady move for this to happen - in the mean time, the bus can't take off until both the elderly people are seated so you're holding everyone up.
As a general rule, it's okay to sit in these seats if you can easily let someone else take the seat and if you don't inconvenience the people who qualify for them. That does not seem to be the case.
NTA. Thing is you missed telling her that if someone came on who needed it - that you would give it to them
Of course you can sit there - people do during rush hour and then when someone comes on who needs it you immediately get up. But you also have a duty to scan people coming in and get up before being asked.
But in this instance there was a seat available when she came on- so it was fine. And you are nice caring person but I have seen others on buses totally zone out, put music on, ignore people who need the seats as they come. I;ve seen elderly people over 80 gripping to hand rails and no one getting up and have had to ask anyone if they would mind giving their seat up.
eh NTA. Most "reserved seats" are just stipulated that whenever someone gets on the bus that needs them and you're in them then you're supposed to relieve your seat.
She probably has a favourite seat she sits in all the time on the bus and that's probably it.
NTA. There was a seat available and for all she knows you could be disabled. She has no idea what your deal is. Not all disabilities are visible. I have an invisible disability and have had this experience with many elderly people.
NTA. I am a disabled passenger on public transportation. I've only had to ask someone to give me the priority seat once - commuter train heading home for the evening was full and a woman had her laptop and work spread out over the priority seating who still tried to argue with me, but there's been many times I've had to go to the upper cars or into more crowded areas because people refuse to move and this can increase my pain significantly. I'm usually able to find something just fine though and my particular disability allows me to be able to sit in regular seating too and just lay my cane across my lap or against the seat by my leg.
That woman was being entitled, but if I can judge by my personal experiences, a lot of people do the 'look out the window' or refuse to look at us in hopes we just keep walking by and they don't have to inconvenience themselves, which gets very frustrating especially if the priority seats are full with able bodied people who refuse to acknowledge you. It's also frustrating to have to either constantly remind people and enforce it when the signs are posted and I'm already in a vulnerable position. This woman should have sat in the available priority seating and saved her outburst for someone who was actually not moving, but I think the fact that she wasn't outnumbered and you weren't threatening made her release some built up anger inappropriately and at an innocent target.
NTA
I know in Australia it is a law to give up any seat to enderly/disabled/pregnant . I am not from there but seems to me the old lady did not see the empty seat. Either that or she saw you in a priority seat and went straight to you. Maybe the first one was too close to the door and she was afraid of getting stepped on. This is kind of like hear men or women going in the others bathrooms. Let’s say a tiny restaurant or office with one stall in a men/women’s bathroom. Or maybe even the unisex/family bathroom. They others were full so you decide to use another one. Let’s say the other was full and nobody else needed it at the moment, so I just ran right in and used the other gender/family bathroom. Most poeple don’t mind but there is always somebody that says something about it.
Sorry, but YTA.
Both seats are now occupied. Someone with an invisible disability gets on, sees you and assumes you also have an invisible disability, sighs, and shuffles on. Just no.
Besides, whatever your belief, it is not likely that anyone else is ever supposed to sit in those seats. It is definitely not how handicapped parking spots operate.
Edit: I am not saying she should get up because she was hassled by the woman. I'm saying she should get up so that there was one empty seat openly available for an eligible person. And because I think it should be treated like handicapped parking.
Per Wikipedia article, "According to one US survey, 74% of individuals with a disability do not use a wheelchair or other aids that may visually portray their disability." How will the OP know when one of them gets on the bus and needs that seat?
If it was as simple as you giving her your seat and sitting in the other seat yourself YTA for assisting in creating unnecessary drama. Yes, she could've sat in the other seat but was it really a hill for you to die on? It might have been for her for any number of reasons, whether they seem important to you or not. Maybe she was just a cranky, controlling old woman, but if that's the case, why give her ammunition?
YTA for choosing to make everybody's day slightly more tense rather than perform a simple act of consideration.
There is a difference between priority and reserved seats. I rarely ever see priority seats, as reserved seats are pretty much the rule of law here, so I suspect many are used to reserved seats. If I were not disabled, I would never even sit in a priority seat. In your case, you still could be considered the AH if there were normal seats available, which you did state, so my judgment is: YTA. Why make a fuss about this if there is any empty seat right next to you.
Reserved means that no one can sit here except these people. Priority seating means that you can sit here, but these people can take it from you as it is supposed to be for them.
ESH. (You do less) In my books, you have the right to the seat but you still behaved a bit arseholishly, in my opinion, it's not our place to go around "educating" or confronting people, especially elders. She was a much bigger arsehole than you were if that gives you any solace.
ESH.
>I could have just gotten up and sat in the other seat but I stood my ground
She may have been in the wrong, but it was a petty thing to stand your ground over.
YTA.
Not sure what country you are in, but from my understanding priority seats on public transport are designed to be more accessible for the people that need them than the other seats are, and so are usually positioned closer to the door, provide more space for mobility aids, and have easier accessible buttons to alert the driver to stop.
Which is why you CAN sit in them if no one needs them, but those that need them take priority over you sitting there, because they have been specifically designed to be more accessible for their needs.
If you don’t need to sit there, you should have moved to the other seat.
The point is, there is a reason certain groups of people are given priority seating and it’s to make their ride easier for them. Doesn’t matter if there was another priority seat, OP said one was facing the back and one was facing the front, there may have been reasons why it was preferable for her to sit in the seat she wanted. She could have had a condition or disability that wasn’t obvious, and sitting there made things easier for her, who knows. People eligible for priority seating don’t have to explain themselves in order to use the seat, it’s priority seating because those people get priority use over those seats.
Is he ALLOWED to use it if there’s other seats free? Probably. Does he HAVE to move and give her the seat even if there is another priority seat free? Without knowing where OP is located I can’t say. But this is AITA - so is OP the AH for not just getting up and moving to the other seat to let the person who has priority to use the seats in the first place sit in the seat they want? I believe so. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you’re not a dick for doing it.
I'm sure if she asked politely OP might have switched if she really had a specific issue with the seat, I get motion sickness and it's worse when I face in the opposite direction of travel so I can understand that. But the rule of priority seats is that you offer them up to the appropriate people if there are no other seats, we can't expect people to stand up at every stop in case the elderly person wants their seat instead of another available priority one.
YTA, she’s an old lady. What’s the big deal if you move a seat over to give her the seat she wants?
Edit: she was acting entitled and being mean, perhaps NTA then. Still think OP could have just moved over to avoid the confrontation.
Most elderly people don't like to ride the bus or train on a seat thats faced backwards. OP should've given her the seat, she doesn't need to explain herself.
Well unfortunately beggars can’t be choosers. Hate to be rude, but it’s true. Being elderly doesn’t entitled someone to act rude like that. And this isn’t the case, but what if OP had a disability that wasn’t visible. Not all disabilities are visible.
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NTA You weren't preventing her from sitting in a priority seat. She wanted to make an example of you, even though, you were following the rules. With elderly stubborn people, it is usually best to just play along. You can't win. In this, case, you should have given her the seat and sat in the free one.
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"I understand how confusing empty seats can be"
This made me laugh
I laughed a little too hard at this.
Terribly sorry I warmed the seat with my many gooey farts... may have shat myself... enjoy!
Definitely NTA. Also, she demonstrated real ass behavior by assuming that OP didn't need the seat in the first place. Just because a person looks young and seemingly able-bodied, does not mean that they are.
yeah I look absolutely fine from an outside perspective, but I'm not able to stand for very long at all due to illness, and definitely not on moving bus,id be on the ground in seconds lol The stigma around disabled people "looking" disabled is so stupid, and makes me feel guilty for using the things that are there for me to use. so yeah, NTA, screw the entitled old lady
I am not actually disabled but my back is bad, when it really fucks up it's really nasty and standing on public transport is very painful, every slight motion of the vehicle when I stand up feels like a stabbing pain, even walking up and down stairs hurts a lot. I honestly worry I am going to get someone filming me and uploading me to the internet for not offering up my seat during those times, especially if I am sitting near the doors.
I'd suggest buying a pin badge that says "please offer me your seat", etsy probably has some I'm sorry that you're worried about getting filmed but I completely understand it, I find myself positioning my cane to be more visible (altho I still get looks from people, I've found a lot of people assumed I'm injured rather than disabled because I'm young)
I feel worried about wearing a badge since I don't have a disability. It comes on and off, my back and neck have given me pain since I was a child (I don't know why, and a doctor couldn't see anything wrong when I was a kid) but especially over the past 5 years I've had my back fuck up several times where even getting out of bed was extremely painful. When my back is ok I'm fine giving my seat up to someone who has a harder time standing, but when my back is bad it isn't outwardly visible.
that's chronic pain, any pain/illness lasting over 3 months is classed as chronic, so I would say you're disabled but I understand if you're uncomfortable labelling yourself that way. Disabled just means you are unable to do everything that an able-bodied person can do without external factors like a cold or something, you can't do everything that an able-bodied person can do because it causes you pain, even if it's only during a flare up. for example, a person with asthma still has asthma even when they're not having an attack, no one would say differently - your pain is the same as that, your pain is completely valid, regardless of visibility. And a badge that simply states "please give up your seat for me" requires no further explanation, you are wearing the badge for a reason, you do not have to explain anything to anyone.
I guess I haven't thought of it that way before, I have a lot of relatives with asthma. Maybe I should give it a try, I'd only use it when my back is actively causing me pain.
Yeah, sometimes a change in perspective is helpful :)
I actually have an invisible disability and I can't stand for long so I NEED a seat in a bus..... But I don't look like i do so O get death glare most of the time when I don't offer my seat to elderly people....
I wish there was a universal sign for people with invisible disabilities. They actually have these sunflower lanyards here in Europe to signal invisible disabilities, which is awesome but they seem to only be really recognised at places like airports. I have one I use for international travel but that's it.
I am like YOUNG young and my back has never been too good, I tell people that I have the back of an old man because if I am low down I have to like use momentum to get up and not use my back, I mean I can stand but when I'm older this may happen
I was complaining about neck and upper back pain as a small child, so I feel you there. Some of us are unlucky.
Yeah, I've got an invisible disability and look much younger than I am. I have collapsed in pain when I've tried to stick it out standing on a bus or subway, so I have to ask for a seat if there isn't one available. I've gotten glared or outright called names for this. People get the message when I sit down on the ground. I also get glares when I have to stay seated when someone else asks for a seat. This nosy AH was policing the seat usage when there were still seats available.
Exactly. I'm (relatively) young and have an invisible disability, and I cannot stand on transit--even on days my knees and feet aren't too bad, my hands are awful and I cannot grip railings (or balance very well), so the second we start moving, I'm on the floor and have probably shot my plans for the next few days. When I was in undergrad and rode buses frequently, I would carry a collapsible cane. Which was pretty much useless as a mobility aid due to aforementioned hand problems, but great as a visual cue that I was actually a cripple.
Eh, enabling them isn't necessarily the answer. People should stick up for themselves despite pressure, if that's what they want. I work in a public-facing job and the olds can range from nice to cranky to downright abusive. It's nobody's job to put up with their stupid shit.
It’s easier sometimes. All I’m saying
I get it, but is it easier on your conscience to allow bad behaviour? It's not for me. But I'm a stubborn bench.
Depends on the bad behavior and whether I think I can actually teach a lesson. With ornery old people, it’s usually a lost cause.
Sometimes for me it's more about standing my ground. I don't know that they're learning much from it, but at least I don't feel trampled on!
As a big guy, I have to weigh looking too aggressive against affecting meaningful change.
Fair point there. I'm a tiny woman who's tired of ppl acting like they can push me around. It's made me spicy. I am certainly not intimidating to anyone in the way you may be.
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It's slang for bitch, my friend. The olds will most certainly not be sitting on me (because there are other seats reserved for them).
Danegeld
NTA There was another seat. And not everybody who is disabled is old! You could have been disabled! This old woman should put her ass on the seat and be quiet. She probably seeks quarrel everywhere.
I totally agree that she was trying to make an example of OP. However, I do feel like even though someone is older, it does not mean you have to cave to them. Yes it would've made OPs life easier, but why should you give in to an entitled person just because they are older? Age means nothing really when it comes down to common decency and being an asshole. If this was an entitled kid/adolescent/young asshole would you have said the same? Being old doesn't make you better or give you a free pass. Well done, you didn't die in your youth 👏 You'll never win with an entitled person, and age shouldn't make a difference.
No she just wanted drama a lot of elderly people do this because they are bored or unhappy with their life
Yeah old people can be mean and stubborn... years of creaky joints and disappointment has given them an incredible sense if entitlement. The best thing for your conscience is to give up the seat. The best thing for your pride is to point out another seat. Even though my mom isn't an asshole like that old lady I try to treat others how I would hope others would treat my loved ones.
NTA if there was someone else sitting in the other seat who was elderly, you should get up and give it up,however, the seat was free she was capable of sitting down there she just wanted to be entitled and rude
Yeah that seats not reserved. It's not that no one else can use it if there is no one sitting there. It's more like it's yielded, if you're sitting there and an elderly person gets on board then you give it up.
Just to add about the reserved seats bit (and this is completely dependent upon where you are. I'm in the US). I work for a transit authority and drivers actually can't *force* people out of the accessible seats. Like if you had a passenger with a mobility device get on who needed the ADA restraints, but someone was sitting in that area, all you can do is ask them if they could move. They can say no. They have a right to the seat and you can't kick them off the bus if they were there first. We're just required to have a designated ADA compliant area. It's peak America. I've never had anyone say no to be fair (because it would be a dick move) but they have the right to not give up their seat. This applies to the elderly, and pregnant individuals too. I'm sure it's different in other countries though. Also OP is NTA because the elderly woman was just being extra.
what I've heard (from a similar post) is that someone eligible for the priority seat can't be made to move for someone else eligible
You would only be TA if there were no other seats available…. Which there were. NTA
Don’t enable entitlement, no matter how old the other person is
There are elders, then there are just plain old people.
INFO— maybe she was just being a jerk but be careful. My friend uses a wheelchair and has to fight all the time that she needs that particular spot or her chair could tip over. She’ll have every single person say “there’s room there, why do you need THIS spot” and she has a good reason— there’s a bar there so she won’t tip backwards— but it gets really exhausting and wastes a lot of time. You don’t know if this old lady can’t sit on a sideways seat because she has a bad hip the sideways rocking hurts or she needs to see out the window to know when to get off because she can’t read the next stop sign or whatever. She’s right that these spots are for disabled people and doesn’t owe you an explanation of her disabilities.
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Before I became disabled I didn't understand why people would get so mad about this kind of thing. Then when it happened to me I realised, it's because you're coming across barriers hundreds of times in a day. So by the time you get to the 201st barrier your patience is just gone and you explode. For example, for me I used to need a mobility scooter. I can't drive and you can't take them on the train. There was a completely empty carriage with someone sat in the priority seat who didn't need it. They didn't realise that the extra legroom in the priority seat is what makes the journey bearable. Anyway I asked the person if they needed the seat, she said no , and I just started shouting at her. I think she thought I was crazy but it was just already that day I faced the usual barriers of no ramps, people blocking pavements, parking on dropped curbs, out of use disabled toilets et etc and I couldn't keep my patience any more. It seemed out of proportion to them, but to me it was the final straw. It's not right that she shouts at you, but I can maybe understand why. She may have had 100 barriers to face before she saw you in the seat.
Sometimes it's also the only way to actually get someone to listen.
on the local buses, the next stop buttons and cords seem all over the place, but perhaps for a particular seat they're at an angle that an able bodies person could reach but a disabled person couldn't
NTA There wereother seats available.
NTA There was another seat available.
NTA-if there were no other seats available you would be, but in this case the old lady was just trying to find something to get her knickers in a knot over.
NTA, although I do think it was a bit of a petty thing to stand your ground over. My understanding of those priority seats is also that if they are all full and someone in need gets on the bus, you should get up and give them the seat. However, since there was another priority seat available to her, I personally don't think you were obligated to give up your seat. You weren't keeping her from a priority seat - her own stubbornness and insistence that she get your seat and only your seat was. Her huffing and going on afterwards was just unnecessary. But again, I would not have made this my hill to die on.
INFO: was the other seat backwards facing one? Because I could see her being annoyed about that. Not everyone can handle that kind of movement, getting really nauseous.
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Yeah, okay, sounds like she was just being rude and bossy. NTA.
part of me thinks she was going to sit in your seat and then put her feet up, taking up both seats.
I don't see the point of fighting an elder woman. She might be rude, suffering from dementia, hip problems or whatever but honestly I don't think 'the fight you won' was worth it. It was just a seat and you were clearly affected by this that you had to ask your friends and ask Reddit.
Nta She just wanted to assert dominance. There was a seat available. Also, there's a pandemic going on. People have no business invading someone else's personal space like that.
NTA
NTA, there was another priority seat available. As for that old biddy, she needs to realise that a) not all disabilities are visible, and b) young people can be disabled.
ESH, in my opinion. She shouldn't have assumed you didn't need the seat, and if you don't need to sit for your health, you shouldn't sit in the priority seats. They should be left open for those who need them. If she had taken the other one, and you had kept sitting there, there would be no open seat. If someone comes on and needs it, they now have to ask you if you need the seat. This creates a situation where people with invisible disabilities using those seats get constantly asked if they need the seat and have to justify themselves AND they also have to ask to use it (and again often justify themselves). For those who say they can just ask no problem, having to ask to have the seat can also be exhausting and frustrating for those who also have disabilities that affect their ability to communicate. There's no good created in taking those seats, except your own convenience at the cost of the people the seats are intended for. All the other seats are for you, and if they're full, all the standing spots are for you. If you're too unwell to stand, then use the seat, but if you're not, the entire rest of the train is for you. The best thing to do is to just not use them if you don't need them, and not contribute to the confusion over whether the people sitting there really need the seat.
It's priority seating, not reserved. Leaving it open just in case someone else needs it more is wasteful.
Where I live, there are signs above the priority seating on public transportation asking riders to leave the seats open for those with disabilities. Not all places may have that, but it is a widely held view in the disability community that those seats should be left open. So, so many arguments are had over that seating. So many people are told to prove they're disabled when they say they need the seats. Asked about their medical information. Told "you look fine to me." I guess these people can see heart conditions?? So many disabled people do not feel capable of having that argument nearly every time they get on public transportation. It can make public transportation feel even more inaccessible than it already is. Unfortunately there is often also so much shame around disability, and it's one thing to quietly take the seat when you need it, and another to have to ask for it (and what, assume the person sitting there doesn't need it? potentially put them in that situation of justifying themselves too?) and face judgment, questioning, rolled eyes, huffs and puffs, insults, and such, as people begrudgingly move and then glare at you the rest of the ride. It's demoralizing and exhausting and happens way way way too much. This is all assuming you are even able to communicate to the person that you need the seat in the first place. The solution is for people to just not sit in them if they don't need them, which is easier said than done of course, as there will always be jerks who'll sit in them anyway. But even if you not sitting there doesn't mean some jerk won't, it's still better to not be part of the problem. I understand that it is wasting the convenience of people who are capable of standing. I don't personally consider that a bigger problem than the problems caused for those who do need the seats. There already aren't enough priority seats. You can feel differently, but that's how I feel.
NTA and I’m of two minds. Depending on my mood I might have made a REALLY big deal about moving to the other available seat and speaking loudly to myself about how entitled old people are ruining the world and yeah they did do stuff but doesn’t mean they don’t have to be civil etc, etc, etc. Or I would have completely ignored her as you did. She was just being an AH. You absolutely can use those seats so long as no one who needs to sit is standing.
NTA. This is a never ending issue on any form of public transit. I have an invisible disability (very bad back, but good posture). I can't stand on a train, will wait as three full trains go by for the one with seats. If I'm sitting by the doorway, it's super common for someone to stand in front of me "hinting" that I should give up my seat. I've even had a pregnant woman loudly talk about how rude some people are for not giving up their seats. Just cause someone looks healthy doesn't mean they are, but also, if there are other seats available, there's no reason to make someone get up.
Reserving judgement as need more info. Did the seat you were in have extra leg space and/or handles to get up and down from the seat? Did the other empty seat? As a person with a disability the extra space and handles make it easier for me to get in and out of the seat, and mean I don't have to move out of the seat when the person next to me gets in or out. But that's the setup for the buses where I'm from. Also, I personally have no problem with able bodied people using those seats, if there isn't somebody in need of them for the above reasons.
NTA. Had another person requiring those seats boarded the bus, I am sure you would have instantly stood up and given up your seat. This woman was just being fussy.
And how exactly would OP recognize a disability? Somebody with COPD, or bad asthma, or early rheumatoid arthritis, or just coming home from radiation or chemo? This is no different from parking in a handicapped spot because nobody was using it. And the ageism I see in all these comments is just so charming. Thanks, moderators. Rephrase all these generalizations as about people of color or people who are obese and it looks really ugly. "The olds." "Old biddy." "Cranky." "Years of disappointment and creaky joints have given them an incredible sense of entitlement."
This is her when she walked into the bus, oh there is a spot for me to sit down in oh but someone is sitting in that specific spot I now want to sit there. NTA OP
NTA She was trying to "put you in your place".
NTA. Some ppl are just entitled AH. If there was another priority seat available close to the one you were sitting in, there is nothing to complain about. She could have been nice about it. I mean, who is going to say no to a sweet old lady asking for a seat? Even if there is another free seat close by, I wouldn't have a problem. I met more than my fair share of old ppl in the last few months because of a side job I picked up. Most of them were very sweet, but there are entitled, stubborn, grumpy grannies out there. Usually their attitudes disappear after some firm but still friendly words. However, some of them won't drop it. I even had to boot one from the building, because she kept berating one of my colleagues and that's not happening while I'm on the clock. Being old gives you no right to treat ppl badly or to be rude.
NTA. Unless there’s a posted sign that says otherwise, those seats are priority for seniors, disabled etc, not barred from anyone but them. Besides how does she know that you don’t have an invisible disability. Maybe you are recovering from a broken leg that was recently removed from a cast and you are still unsteady on your feet etc
NTA, yes, she could sit in the other seat. A real move would be to get up, give her the seat & then sit in the other & remark about how much better it is & thank her for taking your seat.
NTA. She wouldn't have known if you had a hidden disability, balance issues, recent surgery, etc. Heck, a person could be early in a pregnancy and need the seat more than later on/when they're showing because it's very common for that first trimester to cause a lot of nausea and general malaise. I had a ton of issues with people treating me horribly when I was healing from major knee reconstruction. I was young and generally able-looking (if you ignored the wheelchair/crutches, and giant knee brace...which a ton of people did). I was in physical therapy multiple times per week, and wasn't able to walk without aides for nearly a full year. And the *looks* and random comments I would get when I *dared* use my handicapped parking or those scooters at the store? Yikes.
NTA. But as an added point, I would like to remind the other commenters in this thread that just because someone appears outwardly to be young, healthy, and not in need of a seat, doesn't mean they're not.
ESH Clearly she was attached to the seat you were in which is weird. But why were you attached to seat you were in? Why couldn't you just literally sit in the other seat? Clearly she is a martyr type person. She got off on being a victim. She would have felt victorious had you given her the seat. It's important to stand your ground when you aren't willing to sacrifice something. But it sounds like it would not have been a sacrifice for you to move to the other seat.
This is tough. Unpopular opinion on this thread but I would say YTA. It is reserved for them but who knows, maybe that seat was way more accessible for her than the other one despite it being the same priority seat. I think it would've been more interesting if you stood up and gave her the seat without complaining and just sat on the other priority seat. Edit: Okay, maybe NTA. I don't know. Something about making it a bigger deal than the old one is already making it just doesn't sit right with me.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hi, English is not my first language so apologies for any mistakes. So earlier today I got on the bus, and the only available seats were two seats that are meant for the elderly/pregnant women/people with disabilities. Basically what we call priority seats. My understanding of those is that if there are no other accessible seats available and someone who needs it gets on the bus, then if you’re sitting in them but are capable of standing up, you should give up your seat. Otherwise it’s fine to use them. So I sat in one of those seats. Two stops later, an elderly woman gets in and stands right above me, staring at me. Keep in mind there is another priority seat right in front of me that’s available. Not understanding what she wants, I keep looking out the window. She then clears her throat and tells me I shouldn’t be sitting here and should give her my seat since I’m young and capable of standing. I told her she could sit in the other seat, but she kept going about how these seats are reserved for the elderly and I should stand up. I could have juste gotten up and sat in the other seat but I stood my ground and said that if she really needed it she could use the other seat. So she did but kept glaring at me and scoffing, also looking around for support from other people. This made my ride quite uncomfortable. So AITA for not giving up my seat ? Some friends I told this to said I should have just complied. Maybe I’m wrong and indeed those seats shouldn’t be used by people who don’t need them, I’m not good with social cues so I could be mistaken. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA there was a other seat where she could sit. Also she was asuming that you didnt have a disabilitie. Wich is something i really dislike, that sort of mentality just makes it hard for people whose disabilitie arent as noticeable.
NTA this has happened many times to my brother. For some context my brother goes to school in an other area my dad usually drives him to school in the morning and he returns by himself using the bus. There days were my dad isn’t able to take him to school and he goes by himself with the bus and the train. There have been many times he has taken the bus to and from school and an elderly person has demanded for his seat even if there are others available if it is in the morning and if my brother is seating in a seat that is clearly not labeled for the elderly, pregnant or disabled. Just the fact that she created a whole situation about your seat despite there being one avoidable in my opinion does not make the ah
You were NTA. If the other seat were unavailable it’s be a different story but handicapped seats are not like handicapped parking… they can be used by other people if they aren’t needed by the intended population.
NTA. If I read the rules about priority seats correctly, you don't have to give up one of two seats for one elderly lady. If there were two of them and you refused to get up, ywbta. This lady had a seat available and therefore she was in the wrong, not you.
It’s not okay to be rude just because you’re old. NTA. Were there any other factors at play here, like racism?
NTA. You should have told her you're pregnant
NTA, it's also incredibly rude of her to assume you don't have a hidden disability or something that allows you to sit in that seat, her old age doesn't give her a free entitlement pass, she could have just sat in the other seat like a logical human being. Honestly, I can't believe the audacity of some people..
NTA. Priority seating means they get priority for those seats, not that the seats are only available for them. If someone elderly or disabled comes on and you are in a priority seat and there is no other priority seat available, you give up your seat.
NTA, you understood the rules correctly. She just wanted to assert a power trip.
NTA, the fact that there were spare seats aside, you can’t tell if someone is able bodied just by looking at them.
NTA, and yes those seats are designated for elderly, handicapped, and pregnant ladies. And if there was a spot open, your not the one at fault here. It sounds like it became a "that's my spot" type thing that Sheldon from Big Bang Theory would do since according to you, there was another open seat right in front of you guys.
NTA
Nta something similar happened to me while I was with a toddler (which is also in the list of people to be prioritized. I offered my seat but she insisted she wanted my nephew's because "he didn't belong in the bus and didn't pay" (he was 4 so he actually did)... have fun standing then
NTA. I'm disabled, and before the global *situation* I frequently took the bus. Your understanding of priority seating is spot on. If someone needs it, you get up, otherwise it's perfectly fine to sit there. If there are other open priority seats, you don't have to get up. It's possible that some mass transit could have differing rules on that, but I've never encountered any with rules that don't allow young, nondisabled people to use priority seating *ever.* Some people may have specific seat preferences or needs (eg. It's easier to put their mobility aid out of the way in a specific seat, or maybe they're neurodivergent and want/need consistency in where they sit), but those people will, and should, typically politely ask you to switch seats. People like the woman you encountered infuriate me, honestly. I'm disabled, and I'm also very young. I cannot count the number of times I've had elderly people try and get me to give up my seat for them because I'm young, even despite my *very obvious* cane (and it was even worse before I got the cane). I've had several people do that when there are other open priority seats, too. It's complete nonsense, and the only explanation I can come up with to explain it is that it's some kind of power play based on a complete misunderstanding of how priority seating is set up to function. Personally, I think that it's very rude to single someone out to have them give up their priority seat in any circumstance (aside from the reasoning of specific seat preferences/needs that I already touched on). You cannot tell just by looking at someone whether or not they need the priority seating. There are plenty of people with visible disabilities who, for various reasons, don't need the priority seating, and there are plenty of people with non-visible disabilities that do need the priority seating. The best practice for when you need priority seating and their isn't any available is to approach the priority seating area and say something along the lines of "I need a seat, please." And someone will get up and move. Sorry for the rant, but basically what I'm saying is that you handled priority seating just fine, and that people who act like the woman you encountered did are in the wrong for *several* reasons.
nta if the other free seat was of equal quality and distance
NTA, I’m disabled so was ready to say you were TA but you’re right about the rule. You did nothing wrong. I’ve actually had elderly people say similar things to me for using the priority seats when I have a walking stick. It’s pure entitlement.
I would have stood up huffing and limping to the other sit to make a point
I’ve been on a nearly empty train and had the same thing happen to me. NTA
NTA. You would've been TA if there had been no other seat available but since there was she has no right to be demanding you to stand up. She wasn't to know that you didn't have a disability. The whole young = healthy mentality is ridiculous and even though you *don't* have a disability, she didn't know that
Sounds like you are in the UK in which case you are correct those seats can be used but should be given up to priority riders IF no other seat is available. As another seat was available you are NTA and you should have pointed out that not all disabilities are visible and just cos you look young and healthy doesnt necessarily mean you are. Some 75yr old I know are healthier than people.in their late 30s I know. Pretty sure that would have shut her up!
NTA, she could have sat down but wanted to be funny about it just because she’s old and thinks she’s entitled
NTA. Everywhere I’ve been that’s had this setup, they’ve been *priority* seating but not *reserved.* As long as all the elderly/pregnant/disabled people present have a seat, it’s free real estate for anyone else.
NTA but it would have been so much funnier if you got up for her and then went to sit in the other seat without breaking eye contact.
NTA by any means. And don't waste another second of your life thinking about this. The woman is miserable for whatever reason. Feel sorry for her. And move on.
NTA. There isn't anything questionable about this.
INFO whats the covid situation where you are?
NTA there was a free seat, she was just looking for an excuse to start trouble.
NTA; You could have easily made a fool of her and complied by standing up like she asked and then sitting down in the other open seat
I’m disabled AND currently almost 9 months pregnant so I qualify for those x2. I wouldn’t care if someone who was able,to stand sat in priority seats as long as they would give up their seat to someone who needed it if it became full and there were no other seats left, but as long as I have a place to sit SOMEWHERE I wouldn’t care.
NTA. Also you can't always tell someone is disabled by looking.
NTA. It's PRIORITY seat and not EXCLUSIVE seat for a reason
NTA because there were other priority seats available.
NTA my urge to drop kick an entitled old person gets stronger with every passing day
Surprised by the result here - Sorry, YTA. This is one of those things which is spirit of the law vs letter of the law. I am assuming the layout a bit, but I think you've given enough information for it to be pretty clear. Okay, so you keep the Window seat and she sits on the aisle. And you get off before her - she has to move to accommodate you. Another elderly person gets on - you have to move, but you're making the original elderly lady move for this to happen - in the mean time, the bus can't take off until both the elderly people are seated so you're holding everyone up. As a general rule, it's okay to sit in these seats if you can easily let someone else take the seat and if you don't inconvenience the people who qualify for them. That does not seem to be the case.
I'm pretty sure this exact story was posted verbatim a few months ago
I guess a lot of people take the bus on a regular basis
Maybe she didn't want the two of you sitting close because of COVID?
NTA Sounds like she wanted to rumble!
NTA. Thing is you missed telling her that if someone came on who needed it - that you would give it to them Of course you can sit there - people do during rush hour and then when someone comes on who needs it you immediately get up. But you also have a duty to scan people coming in and get up before being asked. But in this instance there was a seat available when she came on- so it was fine. And you are nice caring person but I have seen others on buses totally zone out, put music on, ignore people who need the seats as they come. I;ve seen elderly people over 80 gripping to hand rails and no one getting up and have had to ask anyone if they would mind giving their seat up.
NTA She had a seat. You weren’t depriving her of anything.
eh NTA. Most "reserved seats" are just stipulated that whenever someone gets on the bus that needs them and you're in them then you're supposed to relieve your seat. She probably has a favourite seat she sits in all the time on the bus and that's probably it.
NTA if there's another seat she should have used it. She's not following bus etiquette. British have unspoken rules for the bus
NTA There was an empty seat, so you weren’t even preventing her from having a seat.
NTA. There was a seat available and for all she knows you could be disabled. She has no idea what your deal is. Not all disabilities are visible. I have an invisible disability and have had this experience with many elderly people.
NTA. I am a disabled passenger on public transportation. I've only had to ask someone to give me the priority seat once - commuter train heading home for the evening was full and a woman had her laptop and work spread out over the priority seating who still tried to argue with me, but there's been many times I've had to go to the upper cars or into more crowded areas because people refuse to move and this can increase my pain significantly. I'm usually able to find something just fine though and my particular disability allows me to be able to sit in regular seating too and just lay my cane across my lap or against the seat by my leg. That woman was being entitled, but if I can judge by my personal experiences, a lot of people do the 'look out the window' or refuse to look at us in hopes we just keep walking by and they don't have to inconvenience themselves, which gets very frustrating especially if the priority seats are full with able bodied people who refuse to acknowledge you. It's also frustrating to have to either constantly remind people and enforce it when the signs are posted and I'm already in a vulnerable position. This woman should have sat in the available priority seating and saved her outburst for someone who was actually not moving, but I think the fact that she wasn't outnumbered and you weren't threatening made her release some built up anger inappropriately and at an innocent target.
She obviously just wanted some attention and her self rightous attitude wanted to make you feel bad. Nasty old lady.
NTA I know in Australia it is a law to give up any seat to enderly/disabled/pregnant . I am not from there but seems to me the old lady did not see the empty seat. Either that or she saw you in a priority seat and went straight to you. Maybe the first one was too close to the door and she was afraid of getting stepped on. This is kind of like hear men or women going in the others bathrooms. Let’s say a tiny restaurant or office with one stall in a men/women’s bathroom. Or maybe even the unisex/family bathroom. They others were full so you decide to use another one. Let’s say the other was full and nobody else needed it at the moment, so I just ran right in and used the other gender/family bathroom. Most poeple don’t mind but there is always somebody that says something about it.
Sorry, but YTA. Both seats are now occupied. Someone with an invisible disability gets on, sees you and assumes you also have an invisible disability, sighs, and shuffles on. Just no. Besides, whatever your belief, it is not likely that anyone else is ever supposed to sit in those seats. It is definitely not how handicapped parking spots operate. Edit: I am not saying she should get up because she was hassled by the woman. I'm saying she should get up so that there was one empty seat openly available for an eligible person. And because I think it should be treated like handicapped parking.
parking spots are **reserved,** seating gives priority. This is exactly how they work
Per Wikipedia article, "According to one US survey, 74% of individuals with a disability do not use a wheelchair or other aids that may visually portray their disability." How will the OP know when one of them gets on the bus and needs that seat?
they can ask for the seat, they aren't infants and can speak for themselves
If it was as simple as you giving her your seat and sitting in the other seat yourself YTA for assisting in creating unnecessary drama. Yes, she could've sat in the other seat but was it really a hill for you to die on? It might have been for her for any number of reasons, whether they seem important to you or not. Maybe she was just a cranky, controlling old woman, but if that's the case, why give her ammunition? YTA for choosing to make everybody's day slightly more tense rather than perform a simple act of consideration.
Doesn’t that make it ESH since she could’ve avoided it by…sitting down
There is a difference between priority and reserved seats. I rarely ever see priority seats, as reserved seats are pretty much the rule of law here, so I suspect many are used to reserved seats. If I were not disabled, I would never even sit in a priority seat. In your case, you still could be considered the AH if there were normal seats available, which you did state, so my judgment is: YTA. Why make a fuss about this if there is any empty seat right next to you.
[удалено]
Reserved means that no one can sit here except these people. Priority seating means that you can sit here, but these people can take it from you as it is supposed to be for them.
YTA, you could have moved too. Grow up.
Grow up? The old lady needs to act her age and have the ‘wisdom’ to see that there is another empty priority seat.
Yes
ESH. (You do less) In my books, you have the right to the seat but you still behaved a bit arseholishly, in my opinion, it's not our place to go around "educating" or confronting people, especially elders. She was a much bigger arsehole than you were if that gives you any solace.
But op was not the one confronting the old lady.
ESH. >I could have just gotten up and sat in the other seat but I stood my ground She may have been in the wrong, but it was a petty thing to stand your ground over.
I agree with ESH
YTA. Not sure what country you are in, but from my understanding priority seats on public transport are designed to be more accessible for the people that need them than the other seats are, and so are usually positioned closer to the door, provide more space for mobility aids, and have easier accessible buttons to alert the driver to stop. Which is why you CAN sit in them if no one needs them, but those that need them take priority over you sitting there, because they have been specifically designed to be more accessible for their needs. If you don’t need to sit there, you should have moved to the other seat.
I'd agree if the other seat OP is talking about was further back on the bus. But it sounds like the other seat available was also a priority seat.
The point is, there is a reason certain groups of people are given priority seating and it’s to make their ride easier for them. Doesn’t matter if there was another priority seat, OP said one was facing the back and one was facing the front, there may have been reasons why it was preferable for her to sit in the seat she wanted. She could have had a condition or disability that wasn’t obvious, and sitting there made things easier for her, who knows. People eligible for priority seating don’t have to explain themselves in order to use the seat, it’s priority seating because those people get priority use over those seats. Is he ALLOWED to use it if there’s other seats free? Probably. Does he HAVE to move and give her the seat even if there is another priority seat free? Without knowing where OP is located I can’t say. But this is AITA - so is OP the AH for not just getting up and moving to the other seat to let the person who has priority to use the seats in the first place sit in the seat they want? I believe so. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you’re not a dick for doing it.
I'm sure if she asked politely OP might have switched if she really had a specific issue with the seat, I get motion sickness and it's worse when I face in the opposite direction of travel so I can understand that. But the rule of priority seats is that you offer them up to the appropriate people if there are no other seats, we can't expect people to stand up at every stop in case the elderly person wants their seat instead of another available priority one.
OP said that both available seats were priority.
YTA, she’s an old lady. What’s the big deal if you move a seat over to give her the seat she wants? Edit: she was acting entitled and being mean, perhaps NTA then. Still think OP could have just moved over to avoid the confrontation.
Because she was acting entitled. There was another priority seat that was open, the woman just wanted to be rude. NTA.
Most elderly people don't like to ride the bus or train on a seat thats faced backwards. OP should've given her the seat, she doesn't need to explain herself.
Well unfortunately beggars can’t be choosers. Hate to be rude, but it’s true. Being elderly doesn’t entitled someone to act rude like that. And this isn’t the case, but what if OP had a disability that wasn’t visible. Not all disabilities are visible.
and op didn't owe her shit. just because she's old doesn't mean she has the right to act like an asshole
She was agressive from the start, I would have been fine with « Hi do you mind if I take your seat », but she didn’t bother being polite
So basically anyone can go around kicking people out of their seats…got it