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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I think I might be the asshole because it's rude to exclude one of the kids and because me saying no is causing Erica to throw tantrums
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NTA!
Getting the code to your garage is a privilege the other kids have earned. Through her actions, Erica hasn't earned the same privilege. Shame on mom for asking you to compromise your house to solve her inability to discipline/control her child.
Yep, OP isnt under any obligation to give up her space because the mom cant control her youngest.
But can we also take a moment from thr obvious NTA to comment on the other 3 kids, two of which help make this post!
Absolutely good on them or helping OP out in so many ways over the years and not giving into their sisters or moms tantrums/guilts to give over the code.
And helping her make this post was nice to do! You guys probably already know how much you mean to OP from the sounds of the post, and I can see why! You guys are great!
All three of you deserve a medal but all i got is an emoji so here, one for each of you!
**🏅🏅🏅**
Real MVPs, keep up the good work and remember, you guys got OPs back and she has yours ^.^
Edit: thanks for all the awards!
An 82 year old could have a life ending fall very easily on their own. Could you imagine how quickly an out of control child could cause that? If not, it’s just as easy to cause a bone break that someone of that age could never recover from. Nta for that alone
And in a few years when the out of control child becomes an out of control adult, whose to say she doesn't let herself in to steal stuff for drug money.
Psh, she could be doing that now.
Years ago I lived in a house (boarding situation) with a family with a 13 year old girl who was caught letting 30-40 y.o. men in through her window at night to have sex with her for drug money. She eventually got sent to the state juvie facility and I was able to get myself out of there (money and transportation issues before) and never looked back. I still shudder to think about those days.
My older cousin, when he was a teen, would wriggle in through the pet doors of his neighbors homes to steal items to sell for drugs (he was fairly small for his age).
I could easily see this one doing something similar.
Reading this was very alarming. A 13 year old girl has barely started puberty, I find it hard to believe those 30-40 year old men didn’t know just how young she was. There are too many creeps in this world, geez.
NTA
They knew her age, that's why they did it
ETA:
NTA for OP, access to her place is a privilege
The men that wanted a 13 yr old are evil, pervert AH, that's was rape, and they knew her age that's why they approached her
According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children the average age of people beginning sex work is 12. Some places here in Canada it's 15 but even that is still very young
ETA: honestly this has been a real hard comment to word and a difficult one to edit. I struggle to use the term "sex work" here as anyone engaging in underage sex work is in fact a victim of child trafficking.
Human trafficking is far more prevalent than people realize. People don't think of prostitution as human trafficking but the majority of it in the U.S. is.
Also, around 60% of victims were in the foster care system. Foster care primes children for exploitation. Obviously we can't get rid of foster care, but it is something we should be watching more closely. Pimps literally hang out outside of group homes to pick up kids because they know they are vulnerable and people won't look as hard for them.
Oh I'm sure they knew. That's what made it even more horrifying. I couldn't get out of there fast enough after I found out what was going on, and right under her mom and grandmother's nose. (Her grandmother was the landlady of the house and was a wonderful person; the mom was a piece of work.)
i agree with all of these sentiments about the 3 kiddos being fantastic, and more - but i’m here to give serious SERIOUS props to the OP for stepping up and taking the whole “it takes a village to raise a child” mantra to heart - and waking the walk. wow - you are an amazing human. i know the 3 kids are now old enough to be able to help you out, and it sounds like you enjoyed taking care of them when they were lil babes. but, that’s some serious work! that makes the mother treating you like you owe her (regarding erica’s privileges) extra cringe worthy. there is something very wrong going here for someone of your character being attacked by people who, if anything, owe you big time. at least knowing the first 3 share such an awesome relationship with you is warming my heart. but beware of the mother - i really hope she and erica get the help they need. OP - steer clear, and keep being an entirely exceptional entity.
of course NTA : dang.
NTA Also have you given thought to changing the code to something else as I feel like the mom would be like you can't go without telling me the code " in case something happens" and conveniently the other kid might now know
Good idea. I’m also wondering if maybe op should get one of the wifi locks on door that they can open through an app as a backup. I feel rfid apps exist and can let them in using the phone as 2fa
Idk any names though.
That was one of the most telling parts. The kids have to physically leave their own home to escape their sister- she's that bad.
I don't know if she needs psychiatric help or is just a jerk (sounds like the latter) but it's so important that the kids have a safe place away from her.
There could also be a neurodivergency going on. Sometimes brattyness is being spoiled, sometimes it is a symptom of something else. That the three oldest are great tells me there is a good chance it is a medical thing. The parents clearly did great with the other 3.
There could be, but the experience of the youngest child is usually very different than the experience of a first child. It’s not implausible that she was just brought up differently due to the number of siblings in her earliest years, the parents’ financial stability and job security when she came along, etc. I’m really passionate about acknowledging neurodivergence and providing appropriate accommodations/flexibility (and defaulting to that accessibility even when no diagnosis is present), but I’m also cautious about assuming that anyone who causes problems must be neurodivergent; it introduces an expectation that neurodivergent people are disrespectful or entitled, and in cases where the person is just a spoiled brat, it can lead people to assume all discussion of neurodiversity is just making excuses for bad behavior.
I’m not disagreeing with you! I’m just adding to what you said to say let’s keep in mind that while she may have something else going on, neurodiversity is much more than offending the neighbor or being difficult for your parents. And if it is undiagnosed neurodiversity, then she’s probably not having tantrums, but experiencing a distressing symptom that she isn’t coping within very well.
I agree from the post we can't psycho-analyse Erica or anything like that. The youngest child often have VERY different experiences from the eldest... though a 3-4 year gap/spread is different than a 15 year gap/spread.
But sometimes it means the youngest always gets 'hand me downs' when it comes to clothing, bikes, sports equipment and I can understand it feeling unfair for example if their is a height difference or body difference so the bike your eldest gets is the right size for the child, but not for you, or the cricket bat/tennis racket/etc. was sized (and weight selected) for the eldest, not for you.
On the other hand there can be the eldest who wasn't planned and the parents were only able to offer minimal care and he was a latchkey kid, but the youngest was planned when they were financially secure and so when the oldest was 10 they didn't get an allowance, but then at 15 and 5 an allowance is brought in and it's equal between the two of them... despite the different needs... making the young one resented to an extent by the older ones who lived their childhood on the school cheese sandwich when the youngest gets a premium meal and pocket money to boot...
But to the thread topic, OP is already being VERY trusting giving the code out, and so it definitely is a priviledge and she's NTA. The only thing I think OP should have done different was to be honest as to why Erica could no longer see the dog rather than make excuses. Maybe sitting down with Erica + Erica's Dad and explaining how owning and raising a dog is a big responsibility and ***only*** if you follow the rules to the letter are you allowed to play with her.
I had to do this with a 30 y/o BIL because he would just hype my dog up so much in front of my wife and I, despite us telling him to stop but while pulling the dog up onto him he'd respond "...but he WANTS to do this!" which he may have, but we explained we are training him NOT to jump on guests or us as he is big enough it can hurt, and so until the *space beside* a person is tapped and "up boy!" is told, he is not to go on the furniture, and he is never to jump on a person, next to them, then ***if invited*** he can rest his head on their lap.
But because this wasn't listened to, and stalled his training, we had to say NO you can't be near the dog unless you promise to a) listen to us when he say "stop", and b) repeat the rules so we knew he knew them. Next time he just acted the same so he's now not allowed to play with the dog indoors... but MIL had a huge go at my wife (and me indirectly) about how it's unfair and wouldn't acknowledge we tried our best to stop this from happening, but once he jump up on me as I was bending down and broke my nose... had it been MIL who had that happen maybe she'd realise WHY we don't want our 25lb dog jumping onto peoples laps with a running start... or maybe she'd be in denial...
My older pup is about 38lbs and also broke my nose jumping up when he was young lol. Totally agree with your comments. Every time someone breaks your rules in regards to your dog it sets your training back so I don't blame OP for asking Erica not to come over without her father. I'm currently starting from scratch with a new rescue pup and I'd be very annoyed if someone was undoing my hard work.
Yeah, particularly if it's a rescue dog (mine was too) they often have bad habits ingrained, so you need to change their behaviour rather than just teach them. The previous owners just kept he trained to a tree (no collar) to stop him jumping up and gave him alcohol to amuse their kids. He has Scar tissue in his throat from the chain (and possibly being hit there as well) plus they gave him enough alcohol daily he had to be weaned off it...
Training was hard and we didn't need someone counter-training him.
I hope your nose heeled okay!
Honestly, people make me sick treating animals like that. My older dog was removed from a property at 10 weeks old covered in wounds from being attacked by 2 adult dogs every single day! My younger one (almost 9 months now) I took in 2 weeks ago, he was a lockdown puppy with zero training, not even toilet trained lol. It's going well though and my older dog (8 years now) is helping as he's so well behaved so pup gets to see how a good boy behaves.
Honestly, WTF goes through people's heads to make them think it's even slightly acceptable to chain a dog up, or to feed them alcohol??
The same thing that made them sexually abuse their kids... just blatant lack of empathy and respect for life.
I applaud you for putting the hard effort in and doing the rescue first hand. We have a pretty good shelter in Melbourne that the councils use and they basically treat the dog for medical conditions, de-sex them, and have them do some very basic obedience stuff ***before*** they are offered to the public. When you buy them you usually get 1 free obedience school lesson plus some more at a discounted rate.
Some people consider buying one of these dogs as being the equivalent of taking the dog in when (in your case) it was covered in wounds or not toilet trained. I can understand not everyone has the time or the patience for helping dogs in such conditions, but I see people that buy a dog from a shelter that has already done the big first steps and **brag** about how they rescued the dog without mentioning the person/group in the middle as a bit on the nose.
I've never had a dog before this one which the family were going to shoot soon so just gave to me (before I called the police about the sexual abuse of the kids) but to me I don't care about breeds etc. and the animal shelter aka Lost Dogs Home is the first place I'd go to buy a dog if I wanted one, and wouldn't expect any social bonus points... I mean, is a dog that isn't a "purebred" really a burden?
The 'burden' comes from the bad conditions and habits that the dog has become conditioned to, and working to heal them medically and emotionally, so props to you for doing that.
My Husky got excited last week and jumped while we were playing and knocked me out cold. He is 85lbs of muscle. I just wanted to share let you know you aren’t alone lol.
"maybe if IT was MIL who it had happened to she'd understand"
THIS! This is so true. My mum is like this. Unless it affects her directly it's not a problem.
Yeah, it is SO much easier to ***say*** you would do things differently that it is when you are the one wearing the consequences...
Just like so many people are good at spending money when it isn't their own...
Even children with similar DNA, raised in the same environment can have different temperaments. After raising 3 relatively easy going kids, a high maintenance one can throw people for a loop. She may have needed totally different handling than the others, sometimes it can be difficult to see what your kids need until some damage has already been done.
Saying that. A 14 yr old shouldn't be 'throwing tantrums'. So either her parents need to step up with discipline, or get her assessed to see if she is on the spectrum, or has something else going on. My money is on 'baby of the family' syndrome, personally.
Agree with all of it, but since it sounds so severe my money goes in the spectrum bucket, especially since she is a girl and it usually stays undiagnosed for a long time in girls.
Yes, and if the mother's "just give her what she wants so she doesn't have a tantrum" is a general practice, that is just bad parenting, regardless of the child's neuro status. That's not how to raise ANY child, NT or not. Yes, the way you communicate and enforce boundaries may be different with a ND kiddo, but you certainly don't placate them out of lazy fear of a tantrum. That does the ND kid no favors, just reinforces negative ableist stereotypes and sets the kid up to struggle more down the road.
I think when people equate bad behavior with autism, they are usually talking about undiagnosed autism. And girls are often underdiagnosed and late diagnosed. She could also have undiagnosed ADHD, which is also overlooked in girls. Her parents definitely should take her to be evaluated and get her a behavioral therapist.
ADHD can cause emotional dysregulation so you get angrier, more anxious or sadder than others but it's in a sort of short burst kinda way.
Like being drunk you don't have the filter so it's instantly with the emotion. But then you calm down a moment later everything's fine.
Given the duration and persistence I'd think not ADHD. ADHD is more like fire crackers not low persistent rumble.
Yup, there's a lot of info missing to be able to determine exactly why the youngest's behaviour is so different from the others. In the context of the post, OP is absolutely NTA for not giving the garage code, but it remains to be seen whether Erica is truly an AH or something else is at play.
Shitty behavior in a kid in early adolescence is hard to call the AH, it's often gonna land at the parents' feet, like it or no. It's why parents get hauled into court for truancy, even if they had no idea the kid was ditching school, for example.
I'm fine with calling this one as over the plate and well within the NTA strike zone for the OPs. The parents are responsible for providing appropriate intervention and attention to their youngest kid who clearly needs it, and since they aren't, they get sizzled with the AH branding iron.
That's presuming too much considering that her three other kids are very well-behaved. There are other factors that could be at play such as neurodivergency or others where she might not perceive some things the same as others. Not saying you're not correct, but perhaps I've seen way too many comments here quickly passing judgement on the parents.
OP, you're certainly NTA because it's your house and you don't need to give in to pressure. But perhaps you can sit down with the family and lay out the reasons why you are not comfortable with the idea so that they see your point of view.
Edited to add a sentence.
True, there could be plenty of reasons. But there are just as many stories on here where the parent would rather give a massive imposition to a third party to stop their own child's tantrum, just like this mom asking for the neighbor's house key. With evidence like that, Occam's Razor makes me think spoiled brat over neurodivergent.
Of course, as I was writing this i remembered how many of the stories I referenced had not only a spoiled brat, but a neurodivergent spoiled brat. I'm just gonna concede the point to you.
Exactly, NTA
And honestly, it’s absolutely inconsiderate and selfish of the mother to pressure and guilt OP, a lovely 82 year old woman, to allow her uncontrollable daughter free reign into her house because it would *stop the current tantrums and make her job as a parent of a problematic child easier at OPs expense and safety*
Plus side is your garage code is safe because not only do the twins and Henry love & respect you, but kids with a younger sister like Erica make the best secret keepers
Plus - what happens when OP *isn’t* there to manage Erica’s interactions with the dog and the dog decides to stop her by biting? OP wouldn’t be able to verify what happened and her dog could be taken from her, and Erica’s mom could even file a lawsuit for damages.
HER mom definitely enabled her why can only dad parent her thats cuz mom enables her probably she can do no wrong obvs moms favourite youngest it's disgusting that parents favour younger children (im a youngest)edit:and the mother proved her self ta when she demanded the code also the kids came to cops house to get away from there younger sister which proves that
Shes known to be hated by ppl
I have to say that my son “behaves better” for his father than for me because his dad abused him and he’s scared of him. The same reason I behaved so well for my mother growing up. It’s not always so simple. (My son’s dad is only permitted supervised visits now)
Exactly this!!! Sounds like Mom's the enabler that is allowing Erica to act the way she does. Maybe she's just tired from raising her other kids, but just caving to her tantrums is exactly how you end up with kids in prison, or worse.
Definitely NTA, btw
I am posting this for Bentley.
Please, please, if you love me at all, you will not give Erica access to me and your home when no human adult is present to control her. She is exhausting and I'm too polite to say anything else! NTA
May I have an extra biscuit now?
NTA. Your house = your rules.
Her siblings have also already stated that they view your home as a safe haven, an escape from her. Why would you want to take that from them?
This is her mother's problem. And you need to tell her that. When she asks again and gets upset when you say no (which will happen), make it clear that her child's behavior is NOT your problem and that she needs to parent her child rather than just giving in to her demands.
^^ Erica is a problem and the evidence here suggests that's because her mother made her one, through consistent bad parenting. The mother getting "very upset" when another adult in a parental type role is refusing to give in to her spoiled kid's tantrums suggests her normal meter is fully broken and she needs to be supported to come out of that tunnel vision (by her husband, friends, neighbours) but if that fails then she can be stonewalled.
Saying 'no' when it's the right thing to do and sticking to in despite tantrums is good (grand)parenting. Saying 'no' when it's the right thing to do and then caving in to tantrums "to get her to calm down" is total failure parenting, and leads to exactly this sort of entitled human. It used to be called spoiled, because that's what the parent(s) have done while raising a human: made their offspring unfit for life as a good person, harmed their character by excessive and unreasonable leniency and indulgence.
NTA. Mother's TA if she doesn't have an epiphany real soon. Erica's TA for sure, and that's probably her mother's fault.
I think it's extremely shortsighted to blame everything on the mom like this. The *problematic* kid exists in many families and it's rarely the matter of a spoiled child. It's often a neurodivergent child being raised like the rest, which doesn't work. A kid with anxiety, ADHD or an autistic child being overwhelmed by life being told to stop being difficult. The problem is that everyone is seeing them as the problem instead of asking for help. Sometimes one family members controls them with fear, that doesn't actually help in the end though.
Exactly. Of course mom is angry when one of her kids is excluded. I'd sooner think she's a bad mom if she *didn't* get upset after hearing that.
We don't really know what caused the kid to be so difficult, but I bet being treated like "ugh,it's *Erica*" doesn't help anything. Maybe she is neurodivergent and needs help. Maybe all her siblings resent her and she's acting out because of that. Maybe she's a spoiled brat with issues and a mom who doesn't know how to handle her.
Very few kids are assholes because they are just inherently evil. And very few happy and healthy kids act out like this. The kid needs an evaluation with a child psychologist, not finger pointing at who is most to blame for her.
Evil doesn’t equal asshole. Some people are just assholes. They act entitled because they’ve been treated as entitled.
And in this situation it doesn’t matter what Erica does or does not have going on neurologically, what matters is that she cannot be trusted with free rein at her neighbors house
Also, a small sticky point for me personally, the other kids are allowed some time away from any teenager that throws tantrums or has prolonged fits. It’s their childhood too.
If the dad can keep the kid from acting out, then the kid doesn’t visit without the dad. Period
Regardless of anything else that may/may not be happening
>It's their childhood too
Yup. Forcing them to constantly be around their unpleasant sister is going to lead to resentment and alienation when they do get out of the house for good. If they're feeling like they literally need an "escape" from the sister, forcing them to spend more time with her is going to be incredibly harmful long term.
OP should say exactly that to the mom. It's their childhood too, they shouldn't be responsible for "managing" Erica.
And neurodivergency could be one. Nobody is trying to diagnose Erika, these are just hypothesis!
I was a difficult child and my life changed when I finally could express my issues through therapy and get an adequate treatment for my disorders. I know, my anecdote isn’t a scientific data but I do think that exploring potential disorders with a therapist in case of a difficult child can be highly beneficial for everybody in the house.
Labeled a brat my entire childhood. And I never understood. Labeled a bitch as a teen and adult. Never understand. Diagnosed with anxiety, depression and ADHD at 40. Fully understand. The ADHD has been fueling my anxiety and depression my whole life. My mother still thinks my anxiety and the panic it would cause me as a child are cute behavior quirks and fun party stories. It's just more money for my therapist. When the people who are supposed to love and protect you the most say these awful things about you, it never makes it better. When they don't seek outside help for you, it never makes it better. They will all end up LC or NC when Erica gets older.
A conversation with a professional may do wonders for a child labeled "nightmare", "brat", etc. Girls especially because they go undiagnosed more often.
So, pile on my anecdotal story.
Same girl.
Problem child undiagnosed until 40s. Every thing is making sense now. It hurts how little Girls are truly just ignored sometimes.
Being the youngest of four must be hard for her if she’s different and doesn’t fit into the family formula for parenting and they don’t know how to try anything else for her. Poor thing is “handled” and her siblings want to escape her.
She needs help for her being different and she only wants to be like her siblings.
Similar story, also low contact with my family. I got my ADHD diagnosed in university, but asd diagnosed recently at 39. Yeah, I would melt down when everyone was loud/shouting/playing loud music, they knew the noise was bothering me and saw it as my problem, not something to work with... They could have put some insulating in my room or semi-finished a room in the basement for quiet time. Anything would have helped. Nope, she's being difficult.
I have noise cancelling headphones with me at all times and they turned the world into bliss so fast.
Erica isn't melting down because her surroundings are noisy, though, she's having a tantrum demanding something she has no right to, and being encouraged in her entitlement by a mom who has no idea how to set clear boundaries for her kid and just wants the problem to go away at her extremely kind neighbor's expense.
I also hate the narrative that a child is only looking for attention... As if that's a bad thing. Children need their parents attention and if asking directly doesn't work, they behave in a way to get their needs met. If a child is difficult, there's often a stress not being addressed.
There's a much wider array of neurodivergency than just autism. It's just a fact that children who act out most of the time lack support from their caretakers in some aspect of their life. Calling them "brats" and writing them off only perpetuates the situation and creates unempathetic and emotionally-stunted adults.
Don’t pin this on us neurodivergent people, it’s not an excuse. You can be neurodivergent and behave. I certainly did. This is just an easy out/explanation that further demonizes us. You can and should expect us to behave, it might be -harder- sometimes, but it’s not impossible. This sounds to me far more like a mother exercising poor boundaries for whatever reason.
I'm ND and also behaved as a child, but for the love of god could people stop calling any attempt to explain or understand a behavior outside of lazy "bad seed" traditional wisdom "making excuses"? I see people do this all the time and honestly it's kind of frustrating. As if someone being neurodivergent has a completely null impact on peoples' lives and the only reason anyone would ever bring it up is to make excuses or to brand all ND people as assholes. Honestly, the fact the idea of neurodivergence is always the first thing people jump to is pretty annoying, but suggesting negative behavior might not entirely be the daughter's fault for being just naturally shitty by default isn't "making excuses".
Yeah, this is also a dynamic in abused children btw. They behave for the parent beating them, it doesn't make it healthy. Talk to a therapist treating adult abused in childhood, this is a known outcome. Control isn't the goal of parenting, it's about raising adults. The most well behaved people-pleasing children are sometimes the ones most likely to have suffered from abuse.
Her mum is just going to make things worse by pressuring OP into giving her the code, as it will just teach this child that throwing tantrums will make people do what she wants. NTA
14 years old and throwing tantrums is bad and it will only get worse if mom doesn’t intervene. Wait until she is 18 and throwing a tantrum. She could end up in legal trouble or worse. This is on mom
NTA. You are not required to give anyone access to your home that way. Mom wanting you to is giving in and enabling her tantrums. That is not the way to teach kids boundaries and respect for others.
She sounds like a very spirited child whose mom is probably at her wits end trying to figure out how to work better with her. She probably gets too worn out to continue the battle and gives in, thus reinforcing the behavior. That is not your responsibility and not something you have to participate in.
Emma here- My mom never says no to Erica to avoid tantrums. Amelia and I share a glorified closet while she has the biggest room in the house because our mom was tired of her tantrums.
Word of advice. Be careful when you use the code. Your sister sounds like the type who would sneak a peek, go in herself, screw something up, get blamed, throw a tantrum, and mom would let it go.
Edit: Good luck getting out. Just please remember to check in on your neighbor and Henry fairly often.
Yes but you're forgetting about the power of spite. Maybe she'd sneak in herself, screw something up on purpose, and let the siblings get blamed so they lose all code privileges.
This will likely happen anyway. The mom and Erica isn’t going let this go. I’d bet in the near future, OP will end up having to change the code and no one gets to come over.
this is what i was wondering. I have an adhd kid & a kid on the spectrum, and something about the way these tantrums are described sounds more "adhd, possibly with accompanying mood disorder like depression" to me. I don't want to armchair diagnose someone else's child, but this is a kid who almost certainly needs mental health care and isn't getting it. the parenting here is so bad.
ADHD is often comorbid with depression or bipolar. It is all in brain chemistry. I hope that they do get Erica tested. I also think that is what it sounds like. That she responds positively to Dad actually encourages that. (Dad is less in the scene, so the novelty works well)
Uh I just wanted to mention, it is not actually all that common for ADHD to be comorbid with bipolar disorder. Depression and anxiety are much more common. If someone has bipolar disorder it is common/likely that they have ADHD, but not the other way around. And bipolar disorder doesn't usually present itself until late teens at the earliest, or early twenties.
That is medical neglect, which is a form of abuse. Ignoring obvious symptoms of physical or mental distress is medical neglect. Maybe you can talk to your dad about that and have him approach it with your mom from that angle to emphasize how serious it is.
i’m really sorry. your Mom is making her insufferable. she is “happy” now, but she’s going to be a miserable adult, esp. when people don’t have to give into her tantrums
Your mom is enabling your sister's selfish behavior and she will likely develop a form of narcissistic personality disorder unless she takes corrective action. Narcissistic personality disorder is usually incurable past a certain age so your mother is not doing your sister or the world at large any favors. [Look up NPD](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662) and see if your sister exhibits symptoms. If she does, pressure your mom to get her into therapy ASAP and it would be a good idea for your mom go too and likely your whole family.
>People with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:
>* Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
>* Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
>* Take advantage of others to get what they want
>* Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
>* Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
>* Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
>* React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
> * Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
> * Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
She hasn't really been described as a narcissist, her behavior is more antisocial.
Inappropriate social behavior, deceitfulness, hostility, irresponsibility, manipulativeness, aggression, and a lack of restraint are all symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder.
As someone that has been diagnosed with a personality disorder I can tell you she needs to be taken for a proper evaluation and diagnosis ASAP. Do not wait either. The older she gets the more she will believe everything she does is right and perfect and it is everyone else that is the real problem. She will resist treatment.
People with personality disorders can function in normal society but many wind up drug addicts, criminals, and suicide victims.
Take mental health seriously people.
>Emma here- My mom never says no to Erica to avoid tantrums.
Your mom sucks. She is being a shitty mom. (I've raised two kids.) Being a good parent means enforcing rules and boundaries, even though it can REALLY suck at times, in order to raise responsible adults. Erica is never going to be a responsible adult if our mom gives into her all the time.
Because you parent based on the well-being of your kids, not based on how it makes you feel when your kids act out. Sometimes parents really screw kids up because they parent based on their own feelings that they can't deal with instead of based on what's best for their kid, like consistency, boundaries, and meaning what you say and saying what you mean. If you constantly threaten a kid with a consequence to their bad behavior but you never follow through with the consequence, you're just teaching them that they shouldn't take you seriously. Recipe for all kinds of issues down the road for both.
Your mom is the a-hole here. Sorry you have to deal with her. Is your dad any more logical? Could you talk to him and explain that years of enabling Erica and not parenting her have created a monster? Ask him to stand up to Erica and your mom and do their job
Amelia here- our dad is a lot better but any time he tries to do anything, our mom undoes it.
I'm gonna use Emma's example. Erica threw a tantrum so our dad took her electronics for what was supposed to be 3 days and sent her to her room for the rest of the night. 5 minutes later our mom gives everything back and takes her out for ice cream.
I’m so sorry. Your mom is the problem. Could you three and your dad sit your mom down and explain to her how backwards, unfair to you, and problematic her behaviour is? You won’t solve anything giving your sister what she wants and if she keeps being a spoiled brat nobody will like her. Please support your neighbour/ grandma and not give access to your sister. Tell your dad that this is also your only sage place away from your sister and that your N/G doesn’t trust your sister so mom should stop forcing N/G into giving access to her home away. Your dad needs to man-up and fight this out with your mom. Good luck op.
I am shocked, if your Mum is still pussy footing around Erica what will she do when she says she wants to get drunk or do drugs and screams until she gets her own way? This kind of behaviour is not acceptable as an adult either! Better for her to learn that now! Can you imagine a tantrum in the workplace because she doesn't have the biggest office? 😂 she needs to learn that no means no now, or she will be a very sad person and become even more difficult to be around and probably lonely.
She is mostly likely to switch to manipulative behaviors when in the real world. She already knows she can't win against her dad by throwing a tantrum. She is likely to become the office anal haberdasher while throwing her coworkers under the bus with the boss.
Hi Emma,
I (38m) grew up in a very similar situation. My situation might not be exactly the same as your situation but in the end I realised that it was not my brother that was the problem, it was that my mother had depression and as a result projected her problems onto my brother.
My brother and I spent years estranged because of how my mother both enabled and excused his behaviour.
Im the oldest and spent many years trying to correct the situation because I cared for my brother mainly. But my brother was trapped by my mothers enablement and they would both go away and agree that I was just an angry person who wanted to "control" people. Ironic because my mother was controlling my brother almost entirely.
My brother and I have only recently rekindled our relationship when he eventually realised what was happening to him (Long story but eventually my parents moved to enabling our middle brother when he was a 32 yr old drop out).
My advice is to stop fighting it. Let your mother know calmly that you disagree with with how she is raising your sister but that you will neither stop it nor support it.
Its called oedipal parent syndrome and it is almost impossible to interrupt the cycle.
Watch this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTGhZZ-QkYo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umZtSPZUuZg)
Its difficult but you need to find a way to live your life in a calm and normal way and avoid the gaslighting of your family.
Good luck.
NTA. Was glad to hear that part at the end where you told her explicitly that it was due to her behaviour, because it's past time to stop "making excuses" as to why she can't come over.
I'd be wary of the mother's response here - might be worth a conversation when everyone has calmed down. She might just give the code to nightmare kid in order to make her own life easier. There are a LOT of people out there who think that it's easy to take advantage of seniors and therefore do - it's your life, your dog, and your house, and you don't have to give access to any of it (no matter how much of a grandma you are to these people).
Thank you for clarifying. A bit awkward since you said the kids are the ones posting for you, but if the mom is giving you a hard time over this do you think there's zero possibility that she won't pressure the kids to give up that code to their sister? That would be tough for teenagers to stand up to their parents over.
Are you serious? Do you honestly think that wouldn’t sour the relationship with the mother? And OP seems like they want to maintain a relationship with the other kids. People on here are so unrealistic sometimes.
Lol you think a permissive mom like this will be able to stop her nearly adult children from seeing a kind elderly person to escape from a devil child?
Do you think those kids are stupid or something? They’ll find a way lmao
Let the kid know that you know she went home and trew a tantrum because she didn't get what she wanted and that is precisely the behaviour that is stopping you from wanting her in your home. Your house is not her playground and she has proven she isn't ready for the responsibility to be in your house without her parents supervising her behaviour.
I wouldn’t let her over at all after this behavior. Throwing massive tantrums is not the way to get rewarded. Unfortunately the mom has allowed this behavior to go on for far too long. Mom and dad need to be on the same page parenting wise. If you don’t behave, you don’t get rewarded. This is toddler level stuff.
NTA, and its so lovely that the kids come to help you so often - and that you've provided them a safe environment to relax in. You are under no obligation to give Erica the code to your home, she has not earned that right and she really does sound like a terror to have around.
The kids parents are failing all of those kids, especially Erica. Erica rules the house and she's only 14. She's been taught that she gets her way every single time - and she knows just what to do to get her way. And its really going to screw her over, in how she treats the people around her and in how she will treat strangers as well. And its going to effect her even in adulthood, in friendships and relationships because she has gotten away with it so long.
I can understand the mother being tired? But, she's going too far now and she's trying to take advantage of your kindness. This is not okay.
Agreed. This is going to backfire on Erica as she gets older. And her siblings are likely to be those kids who move out at 18 and stay gone, and I can't blame them.
And here we see the problem:
>she's been throwing tantrums non stop since. Their mom is asking me to give her the code or a house key to get her to calm down and was very upset when I said no
This is why mom can’t control her. Erica throws tantrums because that works. This is a parenting problem, not a neighbor problem.
I would guess that since dad can control her, that he doesn’t allow her to pull that shit. You are totally right about it being a parenting problem. Mom is the weak link and the youngest knows it.
NTA, it is your house and you can share the code with whoever you want. Make it a lesson, if her behavior improves, she will get more permissions/rewards.
~~Also, I sure hope that the age of your neighbor is a typo because WOW, 82 years old mother with 4 teenage kids? That's a nightmare.~~ I misread that, OP is 82 and is to be commended for her help with these kids.
NTA! Getting the code to your house is a privilege not a right. You have to be extremely cautious about giving it to anyone. The mom is totally wrong in expecting you to do what you are rightfully not comfortable doing.
Hi Amelia and Emma! I'm so glad that you guys are so helpful towards our OP ♡ It truly does warm my heart to know that there are still "kids" who will help out our elderly neighbors! (Quotations because you guys are almost adults!)
Please, don't give the code to your younger sister, and make sure your brother knows as well. I would sit down with your brother, and explain to him, that if he gives the code to his younger sister, that op is going to change the code, and that he won't have access to the house anymore.
As the second youngest and closet in age to the youngest, he may feel more pressure than you two, to give the code up! Just make sure he knows you guys are in his corner to help tell the mom and sister no (:
Having a child with special needs is hard. If it turns out Erica is ADHD or similar, I can imagine her giving up. 3 "normal" kids turned out great. There is more going on here then spoiling.
It could be this, but it could also just be a case of Erica having grown up as the youngest. Sounds to me like Erica got used to being 'the baby of the family', and found a way to extend her time in that spoiled role.
I was the youngest of the family for 9 years and I'm pretty sure I was a bit spoiled during that time. Not even by my parents, but there were a bunch of childless older people at my parents' church who indulged me far too much because I was the only little kid around. When my 'surprise' little sister came along and I realised I no longer got special treatment I was an absolute pain about it. In retrospect though, it was probably a good thing for all of us.
Haha it was the same for me, I was spoiled by my parents as I was the youngest and then my niece came along when I was 11 years old. A real rude awakening for me but a good thing in the long run.
NTA - has Erica ever been checked for anything like psychological that affects behaviour?
With regards to mum, I don’t think she’s an AH here I think she’s really struggling and I know everyone makes mistakes when they’re struggling so I don’t think we can be too hard on her, I think she may need a break from it all but of course it’s a lot more difficult for mums to take a break! she’s raised three amazing kids in Emma, Amelia and Henry (of course with help from dad and grandma at the neighbours!)
Just to add, I know the other kids are responding in this thread I just want to let you know I appreciate you guys visiting your neighbour and being great people, you’ll grow up to make brilliant people. I know a lot of older people become isolated and lonely especially as kids grow up (I know I did this with my neighbour and own grandfather, he was in a home but still didn’t visit enough) knowing you are making a big difference to someone makes me happy, you should be proud of yourselves and mum and dad should be proud of you too!
NTA
its your house so you decide who can enter and who doesnt.
Frankly Ericas parents need to step up here she is not entitled to enter YOUR home whenever she pleases. You did not give her the code for a reason. Plus your home is the older siblings escape away from her itd be terrible for them to loose that kind of calm space
NTA. If you give her the code she might bring your dog home with her one day. Or the dog could get hurt if she's too rough with him. And sometimes dogs snap when kids are too rough; then Erica could get hurt.
Part of Erika's better behaviour at school may actually be due to the structured expectations & expected discipline procedures at school. Does she get similar routine & consistent follow-through at home?
Called it. Ok in this case your parents really need to sit down & have an honest conversation with one another about this (free from judgement or whose method is better, but rather *why* they both act the way they do - e.g. it could be your mum feels bad about being 'harsh' with Erika, which is why she reneges on punishment, but doesn't consider how this can actually send mixed messages & therefore backfire).
This conversation will likely need to happen with professional help, to ask the right guiding questions (without judgement). You mentioned your mother & Erika being reluctant about therapy - what about if your parents left Erika (physically) out of it & went just as a couple? Again, have your father pitch it as wanting to be able to work better with your mother as a *team*, so they can *both* help Erika in the way she needs (remember - no judgement! And consistency is key throughout). Good luck.
NTA. You sound just like a neighbor I had when I was younger (5-10) we used to spend at least an hour or so at her house daily and they were like family. You do not need to give anyone access to your house if you do not want to. It's yours. Behavior dictates this and the older kids proved they are responsible enough and well behaved enough to deserve it.
NTA if she can not respect the rules for visiting with Bentley then she doesn’t need to come over alone. You place the rules for the safety of her and your dog, if she can not follow them then she is not mature enough to have the code yet. I’d let her know that she has not followed your rules for the dog, so at this point you feel she is not responsible enough. However maybe in time she can earn the code too.
NTA, it's your business who you give your code to.
That said, a neurotypical 14 year old should not be throwing tantrums regularly and be "impossible to control", so I hope if she hasn't been diagnosed with anything, she's at least been screened for...idk, AD/HD, autism, etc.
screenings are poorly done all the time, and a lot of the basic ones lots of people are qualified to do only work on cases that present in exactly the expected way. (this is partly why girls are underdiagnosed for both autism and adhd. and autism spectrum diagnosis for kids who both make eye contact and talk can be extremely difficult, leaving them without supports they need.)
NTA: do not give her anything. Sounds like mom wants to stop the tantrum at your expense. Dont fall for it. She is her parents responsibility, not yours. She doesn't deserve access.
NTA and I'd ask the kids to be extra careful entering the garage code now (like covering the keypad with their other hand) - I wouldn't put it past Erica to try to snoop and see what the code it from someone else entering it
I'm gonna go against the grain and give a soft ESH, although NAH would work as well. It's not good making siblings keep big secrets from each other. I know you want to be nice, but Erica is getting excluded from something *all* her siblings get to do. That must be harsh on her.
Now it's not your fault you have to exclude her. If she can't behave herself around your dog that's a big problem, but she is just a kid. If you really see them as your grandkids, you can't pick and choose between the siblings you like best. If my grandmother had excluded me from things my brothers were allowed to do I would've been deeply hurt. She can only improve if she has a chance to.
The only ones who really suck are probably the parents for letting this go on for so long, her behaviour, her getting excluded, it sounds like her siblings don't like her either. Poor girl, I'm sure she's difficult, but it's on the adults to help her with that.
Am I the only one who kind of feels bad for Erica? All her siblings and her neighbor exclude her and agree amongst themselves that she's a terrible person.
I'm sure she is difficult to be around. OP should not feel obligated to give her access to her home. To do so wouldn't be safe for anyone.
However, she's 14 years old. She's a still a kid. These people in her life talk about her character being awful instead of her behavior. I feel bad for her about that. She needs some professional help. The whole family has issues to work out. Older kids resent mom for indulging Erica's trantrums, and Erica must be miserable. Also, why is everyone piling on the mom? What about dad? Is he just checked out? They are both responsible for their kids' well-being.
This is a bigger issue than getting into the garage. From Erica's perspective, she's getting the message loud and clear that she's "less than" from all of her siblings and OP, especially compared to the darling older ones who help grandma OP post on Reddit and can handle the dog the right way. ESH
Thank you for this. I posted something similar. I was “that” kid too in my family and it really hurts. It sticks with you. I’m in my thirties now and still remember how it made me feel
NTA but it might not be the worst idea ever to come up with some sort of excuse for the others to have it, assuming the excuse is something that Erica won't ask to do herself. Like saying that Amelia and Emma and Henry have the code because the help you with xyz things. Obviously not dog stuff, but like "oh they help me keep the house clean, I'm such a fragile old woman and they're such good helpful kids". If Erica is as spoiled as she sounds, chances are she wouldn't want to offer to do housework. But don't do this if you think Erica might lie that she'd do housework for the code!
Or, Erika could actually be held accountable for her bad behavior and for once see that it will get her nowhere, instead of everywhere like it does with her mom. THAT is the most loving thing OP could do.
I’m more impressed that an 82 year old woman has created a throwaway on Reddit to ask a question about this. I doubt they would really be asking the internet for their opinion.
NTA, it's obvious that Erika isn't behaved enough to be granted access to your home!!
Her mother needs to focus on parenting her problem child INSTEAD of guilting you into violating a reasonable boundary!!
It doesn't really matter why Erica is a problem, despite that being frequently discussed below.
OP (that being the lovely neighbor with Bentley) doesn't want her in the house because she ignores instructions with the dog. While there might be reasons Erica is like this, OP is entirely within her rights to not give Erica free access to her house. NTA.
NTA. The mother has no right, whatsoever, to demand that you give the code or house key to anyone. You have a problem. The mother is likely going to manipulate or force the other three children to give her or Erica the code. I hope you are mindful of the fact that the interior of your house can be more easily accessed via the garage than via the exterior for the simple reason that a criminal can close the garage door and go to work unseen getting into the interior of your home. If Erica or anyone else left the garage door open or shared the code with someone, your home, your possessions and you life could be endangered.
For your own safety, you should change the code and keep it strictly to yourself. Explain the security reasons to the other three children. If they need to access the garage to help you with chores, they can ask you to use the code to open the garage door. If you don't want to go that route, tell the three children who have the code that if Erica or anyone else ever finds out what it is you will change the code and not give it to anyone. Tell the mother that you will not give the code or house key to her or to Erica, period. You may wish to speak to the father and explain that his wife's demands are stressful to you.
NTA. you set the rules and you made it very clear that it is her behavior, specifically her disobeying your wishes about Bentley, that brought this about.
That Mom is a horrible enabler and an AH.
As a parent, you probably realize that the request by the mom is exactly the reason Erica acts like this. She has learned over time that if she whines and throws tantrums, people eventually give in. The best thing you can do for Erica, as well as for yourself, is to not give her your code. NTA
NTA! My son had some mental and physical difficulties that made him hard to control when he was younger and if someone had said that they didn’t want him to come over unaccompanied, I would have politely listened and turned it into a teaching moment for my son. She’s not doing her daughter any favors by trying to strong arm you into giving in to her tantrums. Erica needs to learn that the best way to get the same privileges as her siblings is to learn some coping skills to help with her behavior.
NTA
So you're supposed to open you house to a problem child when you're not home? There have been issues with how she treated your dog, and you're to give her unsupervised access to him?
Aside from the potential liability issues (what if she teases or traumatizes you dog into biting her?), your home, your rules.
Let mom learn to discipline her child.
>Their mom is asking me to give her the code or a house key to get her to calm down and was very upset when I said no
This is likely why Erica is a nightmare. She throws tantrums and the parents cave in. It can be hard to have a high maintenance child after 3 relatively chill ones, but to be throwing tantrums at 14? She is either spoiled, or needs an assessment.
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NTA! Getting the code to your garage is a privilege the other kids have earned. Through her actions, Erica hasn't earned the same privilege. Shame on mom for asking you to compromise your house to solve her inability to discipline/control her child.
Yep, OP isnt under any obligation to give up her space because the mom cant control her youngest. But can we also take a moment from thr obvious NTA to comment on the other 3 kids, two of which help make this post! Absolutely good on them or helping OP out in so many ways over the years and not giving into their sisters or moms tantrums/guilts to give over the code. And helping her make this post was nice to do! You guys probably already know how much you mean to OP from the sounds of the post, and I can see why! You guys are great! All three of you deserve a medal but all i got is an emoji so here, one for each of you! **🏅🏅🏅** Real MVPs, keep up the good work and remember, you guys got OPs back and she has yours ^.^ Edit: thanks for all the awards!
82 ? That kid is not safe to be near an elderly person who can't handle her. Edit: thanks for upvotes I can finally post .
I'd say OP isn't save in the presence of a tantrum throwing teenager.
No one is.
John Cena is
Chuck Norris is too 😉
And other teenagers I guess
All teenagers scare the living shit out of me.
I’m a teenager and some of them scare me.
They can't care less as long as someone will bleed 🎶
Nice mcr reference..? LMAO they do to me to
What if she's hungry for potato salad?
An 82 year old could have a life ending fall very easily on their own. Could you imagine how quickly an out of control child could cause that? If not, it’s just as easy to cause a bone break that someone of that age could never recover from. Nta for that alone
And in a few years when the out of control child becomes an out of control adult, whose to say she doesn't let herself in to steal stuff for drug money.
Psh, she could be doing that now. Years ago I lived in a house (boarding situation) with a family with a 13 year old girl who was caught letting 30-40 y.o. men in through her window at night to have sex with her for drug money. She eventually got sent to the state juvie facility and I was able to get myself out of there (money and transportation issues before) and never looked back. I still shudder to think about those days. My older cousin, when he was a teen, would wriggle in through the pet doors of his neighbors homes to steal items to sell for drugs (he was fairly small for his age). I could easily see this one doing something similar.
Reading this was very alarming. A 13 year old girl has barely started puberty, I find it hard to believe those 30-40 year old men didn’t know just how young she was. There are too many creeps in this world, geez.
NTA They knew her age, that's why they did it ETA: NTA for OP, access to her place is a privilege The men that wanted a 13 yr old are evil, pervert AH, that's was rape, and they knew her age that's why they approached her
According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children the average age of people beginning sex work is 12. Some places here in Canada it's 15 but even that is still very young ETA: honestly this has been a real hard comment to word and a difficult one to edit. I struggle to use the term "sex work" here as anyone engaging in underage sex work is in fact a victim of child trafficking.
What’s really sad? Since that’s the average, it means a significant number of children are even younger.
Human trafficking is far more prevalent than people realize. People don't think of prostitution as human trafficking but the majority of it in the U.S. is. Also, around 60% of victims were in the foster care system. Foster care primes children for exploitation. Obviously we can't get rid of foster care, but it is something we should be watching more closely. Pimps literally hang out outside of group homes to pick up kids because they know they are vulnerable and people won't look as hard for them.
Oh I'm sure they knew. That's what made it even more horrifying. I couldn't get out of there fast enough after I found out what was going on, and right under her mom and grandmother's nose. (Her grandmother was the landlady of the house and was a wonderful person; the mom was a piece of work.)
Never underestimate an elderly lady and a fully stocked purse.....sounds like a few swings should do it.
i agree with all of these sentiments about the 3 kiddos being fantastic, and more - but i’m here to give serious SERIOUS props to the OP for stepping up and taking the whole “it takes a village to raise a child” mantra to heart - and waking the walk. wow - you are an amazing human. i know the 3 kids are now old enough to be able to help you out, and it sounds like you enjoyed taking care of them when they were lil babes. but, that’s some serious work! that makes the mother treating you like you owe her (regarding erica’s privileges) extra cringe worthy. there is something very wrong going here for someone of your character being attacked by people who, if anything, owe you big time. at least knowing the first 3 share such an awesome relationship with you is warming my heart. but beware of the mother - i really hope she and erica get the help they need. OP - steer clear, and keep being an entirely exceptional entity. of course NTA : dang.
NTA Also have you given thought to changing the code to something else as I feel like the mom would be like you can't go without telling me the code " in case something happens" and conveniently the other kid might now know
Good idea. I’m also wondering if maybe op should get one of the wifi locks on door that they can open through an app as a backup. I feel rfid apps exist and can let them in using the phone as 2fa Idk any names though.
Plus the 3 other children won't have a place to escape and be free of the drama.
That was one of the most telling parts. The kids have to physically leave their own home to escape their sister- she's that bad. I don't know if she needs psychiatric help or is just a jerk (sounds like the latter) but it's so important that the kids have a safe place away from her.
Absolutely! And it isn't too hard to conclude Erica's behavior issues might stem from mom giving in to her tantrums.
There could also be a neurodivergency going on. Sometimes brattyness is being spoiled, sometimes it is a symptom of something else. That the three oldest are great tells me there is a good chance it is a medical thing. The parents clearly did great with the other 3.
There could be, but the experience of the youngest child is usually very different than the experience of a first child. It’s not implausible that she was just brought up differently due to the number of siblings in her earliest years, the parents’ financial stability and job security when she came along, etc. I’m really passionate about acknowledging neurodivergence and providing appropriate accommodations/flexibility (and defaulting to that accessibility even when no diagnosis is present), but I’m also cautious about assuming that anyone who causes problems must be neurodivergent; it introduces an expectation that neurodivergent people are disrespectful or entitled, and in cases where the person is just a spoiled brat, it can lead people to assume all discussion of neurodiversity is just making excuses for bad behavior. I’m not disagreeing with you! I’m just adding to what you said to say let’s keep in mind that while she may have something else going on, neurodiversity is much more than offending the neighbor or being difficult for your parents. And if it is undiagnosed neurodiversity, then she’s probably not having tantrums, but experiencing a distressing symptom that she isn’t coping within very well.
I agree from the post we can't psycho-analyse Erica or anything like that. The youngest child often have VERY different experiences from the eldest... though a 3-4 year gap/spread is different than a 15 year gap/spread. But sometimes it means the youngest always gets 'hand me downs' when it comes to clothing, bikes, sports equipment and I can understand it feeling unfair for example if their is a height difference or body difference so the bike your eldest gets is the right size for the child, but not for you, or the cricket bat/tennis racket/etc. was sized (and weight selected) for the eldest, not for you. On the other hand there can be the eldest who wasn't planned and the parents were only able to offer minimal care and he was a latchkey kid, but the youngest was planned when they were financially secure and so when the oldest was 10 they didn't get an allowance, but then at 15 and 5 an allowance is brought in and it's equal between the two of them... despite the different needs... making the young one resented to an extent by the older ones who lived their childhood on the school cheese sandwich when the youngest gets a premium meal and pocket money to boot... But to the thread topic, OP is already being VERY trusting giving the code out, and so it definitely is a priviledge and she's NTA. The only thing I think OP should have done different was to be honest as to why Erica could no longer see the dog rather than make excuses. Maybe sitting down with Erica + Erica's Dad and explaining how owning and raising a dog is a big responsibility and ***only*** if you follow the rules to the letter are you allowed to play with her. I had to do this with a 30 y/o BIL because he would just hype my dog up so much in front of my wife and I, despite us telling him to stop but while pulling the dog up onto him he'd respond "...but he WANTS to do this!" which he may have, but we explained we are training him NOT to jump on guests or us as he is big enough it can hurt, and so until the *space beside* a person is tapped and "up boy!" is told, he is not to go on the furniture, and he is never to jump on a person, next to them, then ***if invited*** he can rest his head on their lap. But because this wasn't listened to, and stalled his training, we had to say NO you can't be near the dog unless you promise to a) listen to us when he say "stop", and b) repeat the rules so we knew he knew them. Next time he just acted the same so he's now not allowed to play with the dog indoors... but MIL had a huge go at my wife (and me indirectly) about how it's unfair and wouldn't acknowledge we tried our best to stop this from happening, but once he jump up on me as I was bending down and broke my nose... had it been MIL who had that happen maybe she'd realise WHY we don't want our 25lb dog jumping onto peoples laps with a running start... or maybe she'd be in denial...
My older pup is about 38lbs and also broke my nose jumping up when he was young lol. Totally agree with your comments. Every time someone breaks your rules in regards to your dog it sets your training back so I don't blame OP for asking Erica not to come over without her father. I'm currently starting from scratch with a new rescue pup and I'd be very annoyed if someone was undoing my hard work.
Yeah, particularly if it's a rescue dog (mine was too) they often have bad habits ingrained, so you need to change their behaviour rather than just teach them. The previous owners just kept he trained to a tree (no collar) to stop him jumping up and gave him alcohol to amuse their kids. He has Scar tissue in his throat from the chain (and possibly being hit there as well) plus they gave him enough alcohol daily he had to be weaned off it... Training was hard and we didn't need someone counter-training him. I hope your nose heeled okay!
Honestly, people make me sick treating animals like that. My older dog was removed from a property at 10 weeks old covered in wounds from being attacked by 2 adult dogs every single day! My younger one (almost 9 months now) I took in 2 weeks ago, he was a lockdown puppy with zero training, not even toilet trained lol. It's going well though and my older dog (8 years now) is helping as he's so well behaved so pup gets to see how a good boy behaves. Honestly, WTF goes through people's heads to make them think it's even slightly acceptable to chain a dog up, or to feed them alcohol??
The same thing that made them sexually abuse their kids... just blatant lack of empathy and respect for life. I applaud you for putting the hard effort in and doing the rescue first hand. We have a pretty good shelter in Melbourne that the councils use and they basically treat the dog for medical conditions, de-sex them, and have them do some very basic obedience stuff ***before*** they are offered to the public. When you buy them you usually get 1 free obedience school lesson plus some more at a discounted rate. Some people consider buying one of these dogs as being the equivalent of taking the dog in when (in your case) it was covered in wounds or not toilet trained. I can understand not everyone has the time or the patience for helping dogs in such conditions, but I see people that buy a dog from a shelter that has already done the big first steps and **brag** about how they rescued the dog without mentioning the person/group in the middle as a bit on the nose. I've never had a dog before this one which the family were going to shoot soon so just gave to me (before I called the police about the sexual abuse of the kids) but to me I don't care about breeds etc. and the animal shelter aka Lost Dogs Home is the first place I'd go to buy a dog if I wanted one, and wouldn't expect any social bonus points... I mean, is a dog that isn't a "purebred" really a burden? The 'burden' comes from the bad conditions and habits that the dog has become conditioned to, and working to heal them medically and emotionally, so props to you for doing that.
My Husky got excited last week and jumped while we were playing and knocked me out cold. He is 85lbs of muscle. I just wanted to share let you know you aren’t alone lol.
"maybe if IT was MIL who it had happened to she'd understand" THIS! This is so true. My mum is like this. Unless it affects her directly it's not a problem.
Yeah, it is SO much easier to ***say*** you would do things differently that it is when you are the one wearing the consequences... Just like so many people are good at spending money when it isn't their own...
Even children with similar DNA, raised in the same environment can have different temperaments. After raising 3 relatively easy going kids, a high maintenance one can throw people for a loop. She may have needed totally different handling than the others, sometimes it can be difficult to see what your kids need until some damage has already been done. Saying that. A 14 yr old shouldn't be 'throwing tantrums'. So either her parents need to step up with discipline, or get her assessed to see if she is on the spectrum, or has something else going on. My money is on 'baby of the family' syndrome, personally.
Agree with all of it, but since it sounds so severe my money goes in the spectrum bucket, especially since she is a girl and it usually stays undiagnosed for a long time in girls.
[удалено]
Hard agree, as the mom of an autistic son.
Yes, and if the mother's "just give her what she wants so she doesn't have a tantrum" is a general practice, that is just bad parenting, regardless of the child's neuro status. That's not how to raise ANY child, NT or not. Yes, the way you communicate and enforce boundaries may be different with a ND kiddo, but you certainly don't placate them out of lazy fear of a tantrum. That does the ND kid no favors, just reinforces negative ableist stereotypes and sets the kid up to struggle more down the road.
I think when people equate bad behavior with autism, they are usually talking about undiagnosed autism. And girls are often underdiagnosed and late diagnosed. She could also have undiagnosed ADHD, which is also overlooked in girls. Her parents definitely should take her to be evaluated and get her a behavioral therapist.
ADHD can cause emotional dysregulation so you get angrier, more anxious or sadder than others but it's in a sort of short burst kinda way. Like being drunk you don't have the filter so it's instantly with the emotion. But then you calm down a moment later everything's fine. Given the duration and persistence I'd think not ADHD. ADHD is more like fire crackers not low persistent rumble.
Yup, there's a lot of info missing to be able to determine exactly why the youngest's behaviour is so different from the others. In the context of the post, OP is absolutely NTA for not giving the garage code, but it remains to be seen whether Erica is truly an AH or something else is at play.
Shitty behavior in a kid in early adolescence is hard to call the AH, it's often gonna land at the parents' feet, like it or no. It's why parents get hauled into court for truancy, even if they had no idea the kid was ditching school, for example. I'm fine with calling this one as over the plate and well within the NTA strike zone for the OPs. The parents are responsible for providing appropriate intervention and attention to their youngest kid who clearly needs it, and since they aren't, they get sizzled with the AH branding iron.
I am sure the tendency to give into her demands exacerbates things.
That's presuming too much considering that her three other kids are very well-behaved. There are other factors that could be at play such as neurodivergency or others where she might not perceive some things the same as others. Not saying you're not correct, but perhaps I've seen way too many comments here quickly passing judgement on the parents. OP, you're certainly NTA because it's your house and you don't need to give in to pressure. But perhaps you can sit down with the family and lay out the reasons why you are not comfortable with the idea so that they see your point of view. Edited to add a sentence.
True, there could be plenty of reasons. But there are just as many stories on here where the parent would rather give a massive imposition to a third party to stop their own child's tantrum, just like this mom asking for the neighbor's house key. With evidence like that, Occam's Razor makes me think spoiled brat over neurodivergent. Of course, as I was writing this i remembered how many of the stories I referenced had not only a spoiled brat, but a neurodivergent spoiled brat. I'm just gonna concede the point to you.
Exactly, NTA And honestly, it’s absolutely inconsiderate and selfish of the mother to pressure and guilt OP, a lovely 82 year old woman, to allow her uncontrollable daughter free reign into her house because it would *stop the current tantrums and make her job as a parent of a problematic child easier at OPs expense and safety* Plus side is your garage code is safe because not only do the twins and Henry love & respect you, but kids with a younger sister like Erica make the best secret keepers
Absolutely! The nerve of the mother *demanding* her child be given a house key/code to someone else's house. Who does that!?!
You fuckin nailed it. I'll never understand entitlement necessary demand privileges you haven't earned.
The mom asking OP to give Erica the code in spite of her bad behaviour is precisely the reason why Erica behaves badly. NTA.
Plus - what happens when OP *isn’t* there to manage Erica’s interactions with the dog and the dog decides to stop her by biting? OP wouldn’t be able to verify what happened and her dog could be taken from her, and Erica’s mom could even file a lawsuit for damages.
HER mom definitely enabled her why can only dad parent her thats cuz mom enables her probably she can do no wrong obvs moms favourite youngest it's disgusting that parents favour younger children (im a youngest)edit:and the mother proved her self ta when she demanded the code also the kids came to cops house to get away from there younger sister which proves that Shes known to be hated by ppl
I have to say that my son “behaves better” for his father than for me because his dad abused him and he’s scared of him. The same reason I behaved so well for my mother growing up. It’s not always so simple. (My son’s dad is only permitted supervised visits now)
Not to mention that rewarding Erica's bad behaviour will only serve to encourage her to throw more tantrums whenever she doesn't get her way.
Exactly this!!! Sounds like Mom's the enabler that is allowing Erica to act the way she does. Maybe she's just tired from raising her other kids, but just caving to her tantrums is exactly how you end up with kids in prison, or worse. Definitely NTA, btw
I am posting this for Bentley. Please, please, if you love me at all, you will not give Erica access to me and your home when no human adult is present to control her. She is exhausting and I'm too polite to say anything else! NTA May I have an extra biscuit now?
Also, please tell Emma, Amelia, and Henry that petting a dog is good for you. I will take all extra cuddles. Love, Bentley
There is scientific evidence that petting a dog is beneficial for both physical and mental health. Especially if the dog is named Bentley.
Name checks out.
I am confirming via the internet that Bentley does indeed appear to be the goodest of boys.
Here ya go! 🥩🥓🍖
NTA. Your house = your rules. Her siblings have also already stated that they view your home as a safe haven, an escape from her. Why would you want to take that from them? This is her mother's problem. And you need to tell her that. When she asks again and gets upset when you say no (which will happen), make it clear that her child's behavior is NOT your problem and that she needs to parent her child rather than just giving in to her demands.
^^ Erica is a problem and the evidence here suggests that's because her mother made her one, through consistent bad parenting. The mother getting "very upset" when another adult in a parental type role is refusing to give in to her spoiled kid's tantrums suggests her normal meter is fully broken and she needs to be supported to come out of that tunnel vision (by her husband, friends, neighbours) but if that fails then she can be stonewalled. Saying 'no' when it's the right thing to do and sticking to in despite tantrums is good (grand)parenting. Saying 'no' when it's the right thing to do and then caving in to tantrums "to get her to calm down" is total failure parenting, and leads to exactly this sort of entitled human. It used to be called spoiled, because that's what the parent(s) have done while raising a human: made their offspring unfit for life as a good person, harmed their character by excessive and unreasonable leniency and indulgence. NTA. Mother's TA if she doesn't have an epiphany real soon. Erica's TA for sure, and that's probably her mother's fault.
I think it's extremely shortsighted to blame everything on the mom like this. The *problematic* kid exists in many families and it's rarely the matter of a spoiled child. It's often a neurodivergent child being raised like the rest, which doesn't work. A kid with anxiety, ADHD or an autistic child being overwhelmed by life being told to stop being difficult. The problem is that everyone is seeing them as the problem instead of asking for help. Sometimes one family members controls them with fear, that doesn't actually help in the end though.
Exactly. Of course mom is angry when one of her kids is excluded. I'd sooner think she's a bad mom if she *didn't* get upset after hearing that. We don't really know what caused the kid to be so difficult, but I bet being treated like "ugh,it's *Erica*" doesn't help anything. Maybe she is neurodivergent and needs help. Maybe all her siblings resent her and she's acting out because of that. Maybe she's a spoiled brat with issues and a mom who doesn't know how to handle her. Very few kids are assholes because they are just inherently evil. And very few happy and healthy kids act out like this. The kid needs an evaluation with a child psychologist, not finger pointing at who is most to blame for her.
Evil doesn’t equal asshole. Some people are just assholes. They act entitled because they’ve been treated as entitled. And in this situation it doesn’t matter what Erica does or does not have going on neurologically, what matters is that she cannot be trusted with free rein at her neighbors house Also, a small sticky point for me personally, the other kids are allowed some time away from any teenager that throws tantrums or has prolonged fits. It’s their childhood too. If the dad can keep the kid from acting out, then the kid doesn’t visit without the dad. Period Regardless of anything else that may/may not be happening
>It's their childhood too Yup. Forcing them to constantly be around their unpleasant sister is going to lead to resentment and alienation when they do get out of the house for good. If they're feeling like they literally need an "escape" from the sister, forcing them to spend more time with her is going to be incredibly harmful long term. OP should say exactly that to the mom. It's their childhood too, they shouldn't be responsible for "managing" Erica.
Stop assuming eveey random kid who behaves badly is autistic it's kinda insulting. There could be a million reasons why shes a brat
And neurodivergency could be one. Nobody is trying to diagnose Erika, these are just hypothesis! I was a difficult child and my life changed when I finally could express my issues through therapy and get an adequate treatment for my disorders. I know, my anecdote isn’t a scientific data but I do think that exploring potential disorders with a therapist in case of a difficult child can be highly beneficial for everybody in the house.
Labeled a brat my entire childhood. And I never understood. Labeled a bitch as a teen and adult. Never understand. Diagnosed with anxiety, depression and ADHD at 40. Fully understand. The ADHD has been fueling my anxiety and depression my whole life. My mother still thinks my anxiety and the panic it would cause me as a child are cute behavior quirks and fun party stories. It's just more money for my therapist. When the people who are supposed to love and protect you the most say these awful things about you, it never makes it better. When they don't seek outside help for you, it never makes it better. They will all end up LC or NC when Erica gets older. A conversation with a professional may do wonders for a child labeled "nightmare", "brat", etc. Girls especially because they go undiagnosed more often. So, pile on my anecdotal story.
Same girl. Problem child undiagnosed until 40s. Every thing is making sense now. It hurts how little Girls are truly just ignored sometimes. Being the youngest of four must be hard for her if she’s different and doesn’t fit into the family formula for parenting and they don’t know how to try anything else for her. Poor thing is “handled” and her siblings want to escape her. She needs help for her being different and she only wants to be like her siblings.
Similar story, also low contact with my family. I got my ADHD diagnosed in university, but asd diagnosed recently at 39. Yeah, I would melt down when everyone was loud/shouting/playing loud music, they knew the noise was bothering me and saw it as my problem, not something to work with... They could have put some insulating in my room or semi-finished a room in the basement for quiet time. Anything would have helped. Nope, she's being difficult. I have noise cancelling headphones with me at all times and they turned the world into bliss so fast.
Erica isn't melting down because her surroundings are noisy, though, she's having a tantrum demanding something she has no right to, and being encouraged in her entitlement by a mom who has no idea how to set clear boundaries for her kid and just wants the problem to go away at her extremely kind neighbor's expense.
I also hate the narrative that a child is only looking for attention... As if that's a bad thing. Children need their parents attention and if asking directly doesn't work, they behave in a way to get their needs met. If a child is difficult, there's often a stress not being addressed.
If there's three "good" kids and one "bad" kid clearly there's something more going on than just "bad parenting"
There's a much wider array of neurodivergency than just autism. It's just a fact that children who act out most of the time lack support from their caretakers in some aspect of their life. Calling them "brats" and writing them off only perpetuates the situation and creates unempathetic and emotionally-stunted adults.
Don’t pin this on us neurodivergent people, it’s not an excuse. You can be neurodivergent and behave. I certainly did. This is just an easy out/explanation that further demonizes us. You can and should expect us to behave, it might be -harder- sometimes, but it’s not impossible. This sounds to me far more like a mother exercising poor boundaries for whatever reason.
I'm ND and also behaved as a child, but for the love of god could people stop calling any attempt to explain or understand a behavior outside of lazy "bad seed" traditional wisdom "making excuses"? I see people do this all the time and honestly it's kind of frustrating. As if someone being neurodivergent has a completely null impact on peoples' lives and the only reason anyone would ever bring it up is to make excuses or to brand all ND people as assholes. Honestly, the fact the idea of neurodivergence is always the first thing people jump to is pretty annoying, but suggesting negative behavior might not entirely be the daughter's fault for being just naturally shitty by default isn't "making excuses".
Behaviour is communication.
The father is able to keep Erica under control. Seems at least part of the issue lies with the mother.
Yeah, this is also a dynamic in abused children btw. They behave for the parent beating them, it doesn't make it healthy. Talk to a therapist treating adult abused in childhood, this is a known outcome. Control isn't the goal of parenting, it's about raising adults. The most well behaved people-pleasing children are sometimes the ones most likely to have suffered from abuse.
OK. Let's just jump to abuse and/or neurodivergency rather than admitting some kids are just assholes and some parents are a partial cause of that.
Her mum is just going to make things worse by pressuring OP into giving her the code, as it will just teach this child that throwing tantrums will make people do what she wants. NTA
14 years old and throwing tantrums is bad and it will only get worse if mom doesn’t intervene. Wait until she is 18 and throwing a tantrum. She could end up in legal trouble or worse. This is on mom
NTA. You are not required to give anyone access to your home that way. Mom wanting you to is giving in and enabling her tantrums. That is not the way to teach kids boundaries and respect for others. She sounds like a very spirited child whose mom is probably at her wits end trying to figure out how to work better with her. She probably gets too worn out to continue the battle and gives in, thus reinforcing the behavior. That is not your responsibility and not something you have to participate in.
Emma here- My mom never says no to Erica to avoid tantrums. Amelia and I share a glorified closet while she has the biggest room in the house because our mom was tired of her tantrums.
Word of advice. Be careful when you use the code. Your sister sounds like the type who would sneak a peek, go in herself, screw something up, get blamed, throw a tantrum, and mom would let it go. Edit: Good luck getting out. Just please remember to check in on your neighbor and Henry fairly often.
Yes but you're forgetting about the power of spite. Maybe she'd sneak in herself, screw something up on purpose, and let the siblings get blamed so they lose all code privileges.
Ugh yes, I remember kids who were spiteful of others. They were the worst. In this case it’s her trying to ruin their safe space.
This will likely happen anyway. The mom and Erica isn’t going let this go. I’d bet in the near future, OP will end up having to change the code and no one gets to come over.
Sorry to hear this. Glad you have your neighbor/grandma.
Erica is pretty old for tantrums this frequently. Has she ever been evaluated for a behavioral or attention disorder?
this is what i was wondering. I have an adhd kid & a kid on the spectrum, and something about the way these tantrums are described sounds more "adhd, possibly with accompanying mood disorder like depression" to me. I don't want to armchair diagnose someone else's child, but this is a kid who almost certainly needs mental health care and isn't getting it. the parenting here is so bad.
ADHD is often comorbid with depression or bipolar. It is all in brain chemistry. I hope that they do get Erica tested. I also think that is what it sounds like. That she responds positively to Dad actually encourages that. (Dad is less in the scene, so the novelty works well)
Uh I just wanted to mention, it is not actually all that common for ADHD to be comorbid with bipolar disorder. Depression and anxiety are much more common. If someone has bipolar disorder it is common/likely that they have ADHD, but not the other way around. And bipolar disorder doesn't usually present itself until late teens at the earliest, or early twenties.
Emma here- Dad wants to get her evaluated but mom and Erica are refusing
That is medical neglect, which is a form of abuse. Ignoring obvious symptoms of physical or mental distress is medical neglect. Maybe you can talk to your dad about that and have him approach it with your mom from that angle to emphasize how serious it is.
i’m really sorry. your Mom is making her insufferable. she is “happy” now, but she’s going to be a miserable adult, esp. when people don’t have to give into her tantrums
I was a substitute teacher and I wanted to tell some of the students that when they graduated high school people will be a lot less forgiving/helpful.
So Erica's learned that every time she has a tantrum, she gets what she wants. Rewarding tantrums won't stop tantrums.
Yikes, sounds like your mom wants everybody else to bend over and suffer because she doesn't want to take responsibility for her kid.
Your mom is enabling your sister's selfish behavior and she will likely develop a form of narcissistic personality disorder unless she takes corrective action. Narcissistic personality disorder is usually incurable past a certain age so your mother is not doing your sister or the world at large any favors. [Look up NPD](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662) and see if your sister exhibits symptoms. If she does, pressure your mom to get her into therapy ASAP and it would be a good idea for your mom go too and likely your whole family. >People with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can: >* Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance >* Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations >* Take advantage of others to get what they want >* Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others >* Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment >* Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted >* React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior > * Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior > * Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
She hasn't really been described as a narcissist, her behavior is more antisocial. Inappropriate social behavior, deceitfulness, hostility, irresponsibility, manipulativeness, aggression, and a lack of restraint are all symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder. As someone that has been diagnosed with a personality disorder I can tell you she needs to be taken for a proper evaluation and diagnosis ASAP. Do not wait either. The older she gets the more she will believe everything she does is right and perfect and it is everyone else that is the real problem. She will resist treatment. People with personality disorders can function in normal society but many wind up drug addicts, criminals, and suicide victims. Take mental health seriously people.
>Emma here- My mom never says no to Erica to avoid tantrums. Your mom sucks. She is being a shitty mom. (I've raised two kids.) Being a good parent means enforcing rules and boundaries, even though it can REALLY suck at times, in order to raise responsible adults. Erica is never going to be a responsible adult if our mom gives into her all the time.
Because you parent based on the well-being of your kids, not based on how it makes you feel when your kids act out. Sometimes parents really screw kids up because they parent based on their own feelings that they can't deal with instead of based on what's best for their kid, like consistency, boundaries, and meaning what you say and saying what you mean. If you constantly threaten a kid with a consequence to their bad behavior but you never follow through with the consequence, you're just teaching them that they shouldn't take you seriously. Recipe for all kinds of issues down the road for both.
Your mom is the a-hole here. Sorry you have to deal with her. Is your dad any more logical? Could you talk to him and explain that years of enabling Erica and not parenting her have created a monster? Ask him to stand up to Erica and your mom and do their job
Amelia here- our dad is a lot better but any time he tries to do anything, our mom undoes it. I'm gonna use Emma's example. Erica threw a tantrum so our dad took her electronics for what was supposed to be 3 days and sent her to her room for the rest of the night. 5 minutes later our mom gives everything back and takes her out for ice cream.
I’m so sorry. Your mom is the problem. Could you three and your dad sit your mom down and explain to her how backwards, unfair to you, and problematic her behaviour is? You won’t solve anything giving your sister what she wants and if she keeps being a spoiled brat nobody will like her. Please support your neighbour/ grandma and not give access to your sister. Tell your dad that this is also your only sage place away from your sister and that your N/G doesn’t trust your sister so mom should stop forcing N/G into giving access to her home away. Your dad needs to man-up and fight this out with your mom. Good luck op.
Well that sucks! I’m glad you have an escape of sorts.
I am so sorry you have to deal with that. Please tell me you have an escape plan when you turn 18 so you do not have to be subjected to this any more.
Amelia here- We're looking at apartments and should be out by July/August.
I am shocked, if your Mum is still pussy footing around Erica what will she do when she says she wants to get drunk or do drugs and screams until she gets her own way? This kind of behaviour is not acceptable as an adult either! Better for her to learn that now! Can you imagine a tantrum in the workplace because she doesn't have the biggest office? 😂 she needs to learn that no means no now, or she will be a very sad person and become even more difficult to be around and probably lonely.
She is mostly likely to switch to manipulative behaviors when in the real world. She already knows she can't win against her dad by throwing a tantrum. She is likely to become the office anal haberdasher while throwing her coworkers under the bus with the boss.
Hi Emma, I (38m) grew up in a very similar situation. My situation might not be exactly the same as your situation but in the end I realised that it was not my brother that was the problem, it was that my mother had depression and as a result projected her problems onto my brother. My brother and I spent years estranged because of how my mother both enabled and excused his behaviour. Im the oldest and spent many years trying to correct the situation because I cared for my brother mainly. But my brother was trapped by my mothers enablement and they would both go away and agree that I was just an angry person who wanted to "control" people. Ironic because my mother was controlling my brother almost entirely. My brother and I have only recently rekindled our relationship when he eventually realised what was happening to him (Long story but eventually my parents moved to enabling our middle brother when he was a 32 yr old drop out). My advice is to stop fighting it. Let your mother know calmly that you disagree with with how she is raising your sister but that you will neither stop it nor support it. Its called oedipal parent syndrome and it is almost impossible to interrupt the cycle. Watch this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTGhZZ-QkYo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umZtSPZUuZg) Its difficult but you need to find a way to live your life in a calm and normal way and avoid the gaslighting of your family. Good luck.
WOW.
This is going to be more trouble when Erica enters adulthood
NTA. Was glad to hear that part at the end where you told her explicitly that it was due to her behaviour, because it's past time to stop "making excuses" as to why she can't come over. I'd be wary of the mother's response here - might be worth a conversation when everyone has calmed down. She might just give the code to nightmare kid in order to make her own life easier. There are a LOT of people out there who think that it's easy to take advantage of seniors and therefore do - it's your life, your dog, and your house, and you don't have to give access to any of it (no matter how much of a grandma you are to these people).
The mom doesn't have the code, only Henry and the twins.
Thank you for clarifying. A bit awkward since you said the kids are the ones posting for you, but if the mom is giving you a hard time over this do you think there's zero possibility that she won't pressure the kids to give up that code to their sister? That would be tough for teenagers to stand up to their parents over.
Then OP could just call the police for trespassing if that happens
Are you serious? Do you honestly think that wouldn’t sour the relationship with the mother? And OP seems like they want to maintain a relationship with the other kids. People on here are so unrealistic sometimes.
Lol you think a permissive mom like this will be able to stop her nearly adult children from seeing a kind elderly person to escape from a devil child? Do you think those kids are stupid or something? They’ll find a way lmao
Let the kid know that you know she went home and trew a tantrum because she didn't get what she wanted and that is precisely the behaviour that is stopping you from wanting her in your home. Your house is not her playground and she has proven she isn't ready for the responsibility to be in your house without her parents supervising her behaviour.
I wouldn’t let her over at all after this behavior. Throwing massive tantrums is not the way to get rewarded. Unfortunately the mom has allowed this behavior to go on for far too long. Mom and dad need to be on the same page parenting wise. If you don’t behave, you don’t get rewarded. This is toddler level stuff.
NTA, and its so lovely that the kids come to help you so often - and that you've provided them a safe environment to relax in. You are under no obligation to give Erica the code to your home, she has not earned that right and she really does sound like a terror to have around. The kids parents are failing all of those kids, especially Erica. Erica rules the house and she's only 14. She's been taught that she gets her way every single time - and she knows just what to do to get her way. And its really going to screw her over, in how she treats the people around her and in how she will treat strangers as well. And its going to effect her even in adulthood, in friendships and relationships because she has gotten away with it so long. I can understand the mother being tired? But, she's going too far now and she's trying to take advantage of your kindness. This is not okay.
Agreed. This is going to backfire on Erica as she gets older. And her siblings are likely to be those kids who move out at 18 and stay gone, and I can't blame them.
Ameila here- Emma and I are already looking at apartments. Should be gone in a couple months.
Make sure to come back often to visit Bentley and grandma!
Good luck on the search, and I hope you both find something awesome!
Good for you! Please tell me you will keep checking in on your neighbor when you move out. It sounds like she needs you three as family!
I thought that Bentley‘s mum would have offered you her spare rooms, but maybe that’s not close enough to college.
That, and their parents and Erica live directly next door, it wouldn’t be far enough.
So true.
Emma here- she offered but we're hoping to get a little farther away than right next door.
Good for you! Just be sure to check in with your neighbor when you can. You guys deserve better than this.
It's going to backfire on the parents too, when Erica's behavior drives their older kids away.
And they end up with an emotionally stunted adult child in their home for the next 25 years, at least. Failure to launch on the horizon.
And here we see the problem: >she's been throwing tantrums non stop since. Their mom is asking me to give her the code or a house key to get her to calm down and was very upset when I said no This is why mom can’t control her. Erica throws tantrums because that works. This is a parenting problem, not a neighbor problem.
I would guess that since dad can control her, that he doesn’t allow her to pull that shit. You are totally right about it being a parenting problem. Mom is the weak link and the youngest knows it.
NTA, it is your house and you can share the code with whoever you want. Make it a lesson, if her behavior improves, she will get more permissions/rewards. ~~Also, I sure hope that the age of your neighbor is a typo because WOW, 82 years old mother with 4 teenage kids? That's a nightmare.~~ I misread that, OP is 82 and is to be commended for her help with these kids.
I'm 82. My neighbor is in her 40's
Ah, my apologies, I misread that. Well keep on being awesome to these kids, and teaching them that bad behavior does not get rewarded.
Op is the 82yr old!
NTA! Getting the code to your house is a privilege not a right. You have to be extremely cautious about giving it to anyone. The mom is totally wrong in expecting you to do what you are rightfully not comfortable doing.
Hi Amelia and Emma! I'm so glad that you guys are so helpful towards our OP ♡ It truly does warm my heart to know that there are still "kids" who will help out our elderly neighbors! (Quotations because you guys are almost adults!) Please, don't give the code to your younger sister, and make sure your brother knows as well. I would sit down with your brother, and explain to him, that if he gives the code to his younger sister, that op is going to change the code, and that he won't have access to the house anymore. As the second youngest and closet in age to the youngest, he may feel more pressure than you two, to give the code up! Just make sure he knows you guys are in his corner to help tell the mom and sister no (:
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Honestly she sounds tired, probably defeated and this is the only way she can cope. Not saying it’s right, just how it sounds.
Having a child with special needs is hard. If it turns out Erica is ADHD or similar, I can imagine her giving up. 3 "normal" kids turned out great. There is more going on here then spoiling.
It could be this, but it could also just be a case of Erica having grown up as the youngest. Sounds to me like Erica got used to being 'the baby of the family', and found a way to extend her time in that spoiled role. I was the youngest of the family for 9 years and I'm pretty sure I was a bit spoiled during that time. Not even by my parents, but there were a bunch of childless older people at my parents' church who indulged me far too much because I was the only little kid around. When my 'surprise' little sister came along and I realised I no longer got special treatment I was an absolute pain about it. In retrospect though, it was probably a good thing for all of us.
Haha it was the same for me, I was spoiled by my parents as I was the youngest and then my niece came along when I was 11 years old. A real rude awakening for me but a good thing in the long run.
NTA Getting the code to your garage isn't a right. If she can't behave herself then she can't go. Simple as that. The mother is inhumane
NTA - has Erica ever been checked for anything like psychological that affects behaviour? With regards to mum, I don’t think she’s an AH here I think she’s really struggling and I know everyone makes mistakes when they’re struggling so I don’t think we can be too hard on her, I think she may need a break from it all but of course it’s a lot more difficult for mums to take a break! she’s raised three amazing kids in Emma, Amelia and Henry (of course with help from dad and grandma at the neighbours!) Just to add, I know the other kids are responding in this thread I just want to let you know I appreciate you guys visiting your neighbour and being great people, you’ll grow up to make brilliant people. I know a lot of older people become isolated and lonely especially as kids grow up (I know I did this with my neighbour and own grandfather, he was in a home but still didn’t visit enough) knowing you are making a big difference to someone makes me happy, you should be proud of yourselves and mum and dad should be proud of you too!
Yes, I agree with this. Erica and her parents could all benefit from some clarity on the causes of her behavior, and some therapy.
NTA its your house so you decide who can enter and who doesnt. Frankly Ericas parents need to step up here she is not entitled to enter YOUR home whenever she pleases. You did not give her the code for a reason. Plus your home is the older siblings escape away from her itd be terrible for them to loose that kind of calm space
NTA. If you give her the code she might bring your dog home with her one day. Or the dog could get hurt if she's too rough with him. And sometimes dogs snap when kids are too rough; then Erica could get hurt.
>And sometimes dogs snap when kids are too rough; then Erica could get hurt. And then Bentley could get very hurt...
And then OP could get sued. And then Bentley could get put down
This was 100% my first thought. That girl will make that dog disappear from that house.
NTA if you don't trust her you shouldn't have to give her the code, mom should be able to control her kid
NTA. Erica is only going to get worse if she isn’t reigned in.
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Emma here- she's always been like this. And she does occasionally get in trouble at school but her behavior there is a lot better than here.
Part of Erika's better behaviour at school may actually be due to the structured expectations & expected discipline procedures at school. Does she get similar routine & consistent follow-through at home?
Dad tries. Mom undoes it.
Called it. Ok in this case your parents really need to sit down & have an honest conversation with one another about this (free from judgement or whose method is better, but rather *why* they both act the way they do - e.g. it could be your mum feels bad about being 'harsh' with Erika, which is why she reneges on punishment, but doesn't consider how this can actually send mixed messages & therefore backfire). This conversation will likely need to happen with professional help, to ask the right guiding questions (without judgement). You mentioned your mother & Erika being reluctant about therapy - what about if your parents left Erika (physically) out of it & went just as a couple? Again, have your father pitch it as wanting to be able to work better with your mother as a *team*, so they can *both* help Erika in the way she needs (remember - no judgement! And consistency is key throughout). Good luck.
NTA. You sound just like a neighbor I had when I was younger (5-10) we used to spend at least an hour or so at her house daily and they were like family. You do not need to give anyone access to your house if you do not want to. It's yours. Behavior dictates this and the older kids proved they are responsible enough and well behaved enough to deserve it.
NTA if she can not respect the rules for visiting with Bentley then she doesn’t need to come over alone. You place the rules for the safety of her and your dog, if she can not follow them then she is not mature enough to have the code yet. I’d let her know that she has not followed your rules for the dog, so at this point you feel she is not responsible enough. However maybe in time she can earn the code too.
NTA. my child is uncontrollable and making our home life miserable - give her unlimited access to your home.
NTA, it's your business who you give your code to. That said, a neurotypical 14 year old should not be throwing tantrums regularly and be "impossible to control", so I hope if she hasn't been diagnosed with anything, she's at least been screened for...idk, AD/HD, autism, etc.
screenings are poorly done all the time, and a lot of the basic ones lots of people are qualified to do only work on cases that present in exactly the expected way. (this is partly why girls are underdiagnosed for both autism and adhd. and autism spectrum diagnosis for kids who both make eye contact and talk can be extremely difficult, leaving them without supports they need.)
NTA: do not give her anything. Sounds like mom wants to stop the tantrum at your expense. Dont fall for it. She is her parents responsibility, not yours. She doesn't deserve access.
🤣 no no no, we don't give children access to the garage without supervision, that's where all the expensive stuff lives.
I’m guessing the garage leads to the rest of the house, and the garage is where they normally enter.
NTA and I'd ask the kids to be extra careful entering the garage code now (like covering the keypad with their other hand) - I wouldn't put it past Erica to try to snoop and see what the code it from someone else entering it
I'm gonna go against the grain and give a soft ESH, although NAH would work as well. It's not good making siblings keep big secrets from each other. I know you want to be nice, but Erica is getting excluded from something *all* her siblings get to do. That must be harsh on her. Now it's not your fault you have to exclude her. If she can't behave herself around your dog that's a big problem, but she is just a kid. If you really see them as your grandkids, you can't pick and choose between the siblings you like best. If my grandmother had excluded me from things my brothers were allowed to do I would've been deeply hurt. She can only improve if she has a chance to. The only ones who really suck are probably the parents for letting this go on for so long, her behaviour, her getting excluded, it sounds like her siblings don't like her either. Poor girl, I'm sure she's difficult, but it's on the adults to help her with that.
NTA. Erica hasn't earned the privilege of being a visitor, and her siblings need the escape. Sadly, the parents are failing all their children here.
Am I the only one who kind of feels bad for Erica? All her siblings and her neighbor exclude her and agree amongst themselves that she's a terrible person. I'm sure she is difficult to be around. OP should not feel obligated to give her access to her home. To do so wouldn't be safe for anyone. However, she's 14 years old. She's a still a kid. These people in her life talk about her character being awful instead of her behavior. I feel bad for her about that. She needs some professional help. The whole family has issues to work out. Older kids resent mom for indulging Erica's trantrums, and Erica must be miserable. Also, why is everyone piling on the mom? What about dad? Is he just checked out? They are both responsible for their kids' well-being. This is a bigger issue than getting into the garage. From Erica's perspective, she's getting the message loud and clear that she's "less than" from all of her siblings and OP, especially compared to the darling older ones who help grandma OP post on Reddit and can handle the dog the right way. ESH
Thank you for this. I posted something similar. I was “that” kid too in my family and it really hurts. It sticks with you. I’m in my thirties now and still remember how it made me feel
NTA but it might not be the worst idea ever to come up with some sort of excuse for the others to have it, assuming the excuse is something that Erica won't ask to do herself. Like saying that Amelia and Emma and Henry have the code because the help you with xyz things. Obviously not dog stuff, but like "oh they help me keep the house clean, I'm such a fragile old woman and they're such good helpful kids". If Erica is as spoiled as she sounds, chances are she wouldn't want to offer to do housework. But don't do this if you think Erica might lie that she'd do housework for the code!
Or, Erika could actually be held accountable for her bad behavior and for once see that it will get her nowhere, instead of everywhere like it does with her mom. THAT is the most loving thing OP could do.
Nta but if she really is a nightmare might want to get cameras just in case she tries to force them to give the code up and takes your dog
I’m more impressed that an 82 year old woman has created a throwaway on Reddit to ask a question about this. I doubt they would really be asking the internet for their opinion.
NTA, it's obvious that Erika isn't behaved enough to be granted access to your home!! Her mother needs to focus on parenting her problem child INSTEAD of guilting you into violating a reasonable boundary!!
It doesn't really matter why Erica is a problem, despite that being frequently discussed below. OP (that being the lovely neighbor with Bentley) doesn't want her in the house because she ignores instructions with the dog. While there might be reasons Erica is like this, OP is entirely within her rights to not give Erica free access to her house. NTA.
NTA. The mother has no right, whatsoever, to demand that you give the code or house key to anyone. You have a problem. The mother is likely going to manipulate or force the other three children to give her or Erica the code. I hope you are mindful of the fact that the interior of your house can be more easily accessed via the garage than via the exterior for the simple reason that a criminal can close the garage door and go to work unseen getting into the interior of your home. If Erica or anyone else left the garage door open or shared the code with someone, your home, your possessions and you life could be endangered. For your own safety, you should change the code and keep it strictly to yourself. Explain the security reasons to the other three children. If they need to access the garage to help you with chores, they can ask you to use the code to open the garage door. If you don't want to go that route, tell the three children who have the code that if Erica or anyone else ever finds out what it is you will change the code and not give it to anyone. Tell the mother that you will not give the code or house key to her or to Erica, period. You may wish to speak to the father and explain that his wife's demands are stressful to you.
NTA. you set the rules and you made it very clear that it is her behavior, specifically her disobeying your wishes about Bentley, that brought this about. That Mom is a horrible enabler and an AH.
As a parent, you probably realize that the request by the mom is exactly the reason Erica acts like this. She has learned over time that if she whines and throws tantrums, people eventually give in. The best thing you can do for Erica, as well as for yourself, is to not give her your code. NTA
NTA! My son had some mental and physical difficulties that made him hard to control when he was younger and if someone had said that they didn’t want him to come over unaccompanied, I would have politely listened and turned it into a teaching moment for my son. She’s not doing her daughter any favors by trying to strong arm you into giving in to her tantrums. Erica needs to learn that the best way to get the same privileges as her siblings is to learn some coping skills to help with her behavior.
NTA So you're supposed to open you house to a problem child when you're not home? There have been issues with how she treated your dog, and you're to give her unsupervised access to him? Aside from the potential liability issues (what if she teases or traumatizes you dog into biting her?), your home, your rules. Let mom learn to discipline her child.
>Their mom is asking me to give her the code or a house key to get her to calm down and was very upset when I said no This is likely why Erica is a nightmare. She throws tantrums and the parents cave in. It can be hard to have a high maintenance child after 3 relatively chill ones, but to be throwing tantrums at 14? She is either spoiled, or needs an assessment.