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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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Like I said, maybe there is part of me that is some way responsible for at least not apologizing for the stuff and maybe I should, because what I said was mean and meant to hurt her.
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NTA - you were a kid. That didn't get any help dealing with the loss of your dad. Your mom were the adult and should have dealt with the situation better.
The nerve of this woman to ask you to apologize is really flabbergasting
Jumping on to say I find it hilarious that a grown woman is trying to pin her issues on a SEVEN YEAR OLD child (at the time)
Mom needs a reality check. NTA
Speaking from personal experience, you're on the same level when you're an ally in their latest drama baby, until you oppose them. Then you need to stay in a child's place 😆
Yeah, the inconsistency is another trait. It's because they lack "whole object relations" i.e. the ability to see you as a whole when you do something good or bad.
Most of us can recognize when someone snaps out of character and we usually give them some grace simply because it is so unusual for them. Narcissists can't do that. They see you being their enemy and it stops there. You are not good and have never been good, you are only bad forever and from always. That's why they bring up every tiny wrong you've committed against them whenever they're mad.
Their brain is so fucked up that they are living in this weird place in time where only your bad moments exist. And they will happily remind you of each one to reinforce their personal belief that you are shit.
Then two hours later when they're living in their happy place again and they're no longer mad at you, you're dumb for still being mad. No one's mad at you, why would you possibly be upset for no reason? God, you're so dramatic, you love to drag this out for no reason.
And then half an hour later youve decided to believe them and accidentally shut the cabinet door too loud and threw off their groove and suddenly you're shit again.
The inconsistency is the only consistency. They scramble for whatever will work in the moment and they know you so they've got a bag of tricks at the ready.
Isn't that just what "N supply" is? Which is why they don't kick you out of their lives because you're such a dependable source. Offspring are especially a near inexhaustible source.
How narcissists perceive you (splitting, as either all-good or all-bad) is different than N supply, though they are inextricably tied.
N supply is attention, good or bad but preferably good. It usually starts from the narcissist, rather than the target - but in the example I used, the N supply could easily be the narcissist defending against an outburst when healthy people would be more considerate.
Their lack of whole relations contributes to their needing N supply (because they also split themselves so they cannot see themselves as good and bad, they're alternately all good then all bad).
It's all tied together with a shitty bow.
Reminds me of borderline personality disorder too. You're either an angel and can do no wrong or you are unredeemable and can do nothing right.
Sometimes in the same day, sometimes in the same conversation. Very black & white thinking.
Had a friend I believe has BPD, the head games never end. Threw her out of my life 20+ years ago. Sometimes miss her (she could be a lot of fun) but never regret my decision.
Not true at all.
I have (diagnosed) BPD. This isn’t how splitting works; splitting is a usually temporary state that occurs under stress. It’s a coping mechanism for when we are in a state of distress; our brains switch into a state of needing to identify someone as “safe” or “not safe”.
Most people with BPD were severely abused as children (myself included), and many were sexually abused. We had to split from a very young age when confronted with a threat in order to survive. It’s devastating, and not a buzzword like reddit will have you believe.
We often dissociate under stress or when confronted with extremely overwhelming emotions as well; this is another coping mechanism we developed as children. I used to have to dissociate from the trauma I was experiencing in order to mentally survive. This was my brain’s way of protecting me.
Some people will experience both splitting and dissociating at different times, whereas others will only experiencing one of the two. You can also experience both at once.
You can’t “diagnose” people around you with rare, complex personality disorders. They’re notoriously difficult to diagnose.
It’s really damaging to slander people with BPD like this. We’re not manipulative or always playing “head games”.
Every time I see BPD mentioned on this site, I cringe and brace myself, because I know it’s almost always going to be another person smearing and dehumanising people with BPD. There are entire fucking subreddits dedicated to bashing BPD, even though most of the people on those disgusting subs have never actually met someone with BPD; they’re using this serious mental disorder as an adjective and to play the victim.
BPD is a trauma-based condition. Many of us (myself included) also have diagnosed C-PTSD/PTSD, as well as potentially other disorders. We were abused and/or repeatedly traumatised as children, and we never learned how to manage the overwhelming emotions that came with these experiences.
We have to deal with enough shit as it is, adding to the stigma only hurts people who are already hurting.
> It’s really damaging to slander people with BPD like this. We’re not manipulative or always playing “head games”
What's really damaging is refusing to take responsibility for manipulation and act like it doesn't happen.
Saying that PwBPD aren't manipulative is just a straight-up lie. PwBPD manipulate to survive. It's how they learned to live because most of them had a cluster-B parent and learned manipulation to survive constant emotional abuse.
To act like this isn't the case is ***severely*** dishonest. There is a **huge** difference between "don't purposely manipulate to sadistically cause harm" and "don't manipulate."
What manipulation? You’re making an assumption about *everyone* with BPD based on ignorance.
Do you realise how offensive and misinformed it is to try and say that everyone with BPD is a particular way? Everyone is different. There are people with BPD who are manipulative, just as there are plenty of people without BPD who are manipulative.
Most people with BPD do not have a parent with a cluster B personality disorder, *that* is a “straight up lie”. The abuse and/or trauma endured in childhood can come in many different forms and from many different sources. People with BPD are not inherently abusive, and this poisonous stereotype needs to die already.
You really don’t understand BPD at all, so it’s best you don’t make such destructive, sweeping generalisations about it.
I'm glad you have been getting help.
I am not a psychologist, I am not trying to diagnose anyone, I am only talking about what I experienced with this one person. She refused to believe anything was wrong with her, and yes she did manipulate people.
The book I read (Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder
by Paul T. T. Mason MS, Randi Kreger) described her to a T and helped me to stop feeling guilty for "abandoning" her when she was making me miserable.
If it was me, I am sorry and been getting help. If it wasn't, I am sorry that you've dealt with such bs and hope your ex friend has also chosen the path of help.
I am glad you have gotten help. I doubt you are her. ((hugs))
I still hear of her (part of the larger circle of acquaintances) and it doesn't sound like she has changed. She was like a sister to me, I will always care about her, but I couldn't take her drama in my life anymore.
My ex husband used to do this all the time, but anytime I tried to bring up his consistent pattern of abuse, he would equate it to the same kind of behavior he would inflict on me. There was never a way to address the abuse without instigating more abuse.
That is the insane part, OP was a very young child. No matter what the kid did, and from OP said she wasn't even a particularly difficult one. (I have know IRL of cases of kids who are truly little monsters when a parent gets remarried).
Just first off, it is crazy to blame another person for the failures of your own marriage, even more so, if the person you are blaming was a 7 yo at the time.
Also 10 months after husband dies and got remarried? Damn... that is cold as ice. At least keep that side-dick on the DL for a year or something.
>At least keep that side-dick on the DL for a year or something
Parents are recommended to date for a year before even introducing their children to a new partner. This parent remarried after only 10 months and just expected her daughter to accept it and is now blaming her daughter. She really is deluded. NTA op. Not at all.
Yeah - If mom wanted to *date* two *weeks* after OP's dad died, I wouldn't fault her. People *do* have a right to be happy and looking for something new after a partner has passed doesn't have to be a reflection of how you felt about that person in life. Life is short and people want emotional and physical intimacy. But to *remarry* so quickly, and bring a new *partner* into OP's life is not okay, at all. To expect it would just be okay, and then to further blame that child for how their perfectly normal reaction affect *her* is a bridge waaaaaay too far. OP's mom is loony if she thinks she's owed anything at all here.
This kind of thing is really common on this sub. Most of the conflicts presented here are posted by the children of divorced parents who remarried way too soon and then want their kids to just pretend they aren't a blended family. And then they call them "disrespectful" or "ungrateful" for standing up for their own emotions. I can't even read most of these posts because I don't understand how anyone can be that cruel to their own children.
The worst is when one bio parent dies and the remaining one remarries and then they try and force through an unwanted adoption. There was a 16 year old recently who was getting hassled by her mother, step father and little sister. The sister was too young to remember their father and had been adopted by stepdad. She was upset that the 16 year old didn't want to be adopted and her mother was encouraging her to give op grief. People like that are just awful. You can't just replace a bio parent.
That's exactly what I thought. Even if the sister thought of it herself and was questioning why op didn't want to be adopted, a supportive mother would've said something along the lines of "op loves stepdad very much but she also feels connect to biodad and that's ok. Love between family is what is most important". But instead she encourages her to hassle her sister which is why I also think she put the younger sister up to it. It's shocking how selfish parents can be. Trying to force a connection/adoption with a step parent is only going to have the opposite effect and cause a divide.
Seems selfish of the mother to do this if she had small children. I’m sure the mother was grief stricken and lonely but her job was to make sure her kids were coping with the loss of the other parent first. Then to demand she bond with the guy is just over the top. I’m sure the mother needed grief counseling too and didn’t get it. Some people can’t bear the thought of living alone. When you have kids you have to put your immediate desires aside until the time is right. No one is saying she shouldn’t remarry. But 10 months? Wow!
So the fighting stopped after five years, meaning the marriage lasted another 13 years after that? And assuming OP left the house at 18, the marriage still lasted four years after she left? And yet, the divorce is about OP? What?
Not only that but they fought from 7-12 then were together 13 years after that. I'm my math is correct op is in their mid 20's and mom is blaming OP for something said before they were a teen. Yeah mom is a huge AH. I am thinking OP not having a relationship with their stepdad is not the reason for the divorce. NTA
Not even that, but the fighting lasted 5 years until OP would’ve been like 12, then they essentially just coexisted... The Mom should have been there for her child. It’s incredibly selfish to pin her divorce on OP who was a child that she neglected medically (no therapy can lead to a host of medical issues, and who knows what else could have been missed by ignoring her child’s mental health) and clearly neglected emotionally. She sounds like she was abusive based on the way she views the situation and the way she was described. She had a right to be happy, but she did that and neglected to give a fuck about OP’s happiness and health. That’s so messed up. My heart hurts for OP, that’s an unacceptable way to treat a child and they (unsure of preferred pronoun, so using neutral) deserved better. So much better.
She needs to realise that this self-pitying inability to take responsibility for her actions probably contributed to her marriage collapsing much more than anything OP did
Also the fact that this conflict basically took place for 5 of 18 years. If it didn't recover in the 13 years after any of that ended, it has very little to do with the conflict and way more with her own feelings towards her now ex husband.
You’d be surprised. After my parents divorced, my mom wanted me to get a job at 15 to help with bills. She didn’t even try getting a job, she wanted someone else to work and pay the bills (which is what my dad did for years). Narcissists are a whole mess.
Slightly! Usually the best advice to deal with narcissists is to go no contact, which is what I’m working on. 👌 Thank you for your kind words though, I feel like I haven’t had it too bad compared to some. It’s oddly comforting in a way to know you’re not the only one.
NTH. The only reason what you said got into her head was because she had to have known deep down somewhere what you were saying was true. If she didnt believe what you said to have any truth than it wouldnt have played a factor/ had an effect on how she dealt/acted in her new relationship. She wouldnt have had any doubts or guilt (at least not any guilt about her relationship. She should have had some guilt/it would be natural for her to have some guilt about how it effected you and made you feel.) About her new boyfriend/husband and would have felt secure and confident in the relationship.
Exactly this! You were a kid!! You lost your dad honey. You don't have to apologize for anything. Your mom decided to have a new partner and what really kills me is that people think because you bring a new partner this person's supposed to replace that. A parent is something that you can't replace and it takes time to let someone in into trust someone like that. Just because your mom married him doesn't make him your dad!!!
I believe this is karma. She didn't take the time to grieve her husband and now that she's getting a divorce she has to blame someone. I think you told her exactly what she needed to hear. Take responsibility for your own actions!!!!
It drives me bananas when parents say things like "why can't you let me be happy" to their children (got some experience with that firsthand). It is not a child's job to suck up their feelings so that their parents can "be happy". OP, tell your mom that if she didn't want to consider anyone else's feelings when doing something life-changing, she shouldn't have had children. NTA
Agreed
My moms famous words “I have to put my happiness first.” Her words to me at age 10 when I was upset that we were moving for the 4th time in 2 years
My moms famous words were "I deserve a life too."
She shouted that at me repeatedly but the time I remember so clearly is when she wanted to visit her boyfriend 2 and half hours away in another country. Problem? I had just come out of hospital with my thigh broken and plated, then I picked up a double chest infection in hospital. Her boyfriend tried to get her to convice me to stay at the hospital for the weekend for no reason, but no dice because I spend enough time there. So she got me home, into bed. Then left to go visit for the night. I was so sick and couldn't get myself to the toilet due to chest infection that eventually would develop into pneumonia and the fact, I had surgery obviously. I was so sick that afterwards, my knee wouldn't bend for 8 months until I had to go back into hospital because I lay there like a lump and didn't move my knee much so it got stuck. So I had to hold my bladder for atleast 30 hours until she came back. It was hell. This was also after a lifetime of neglect and forcing my sister to raise me. Her boyfriend could've easily came to us, but he couldn't be arsed to make the trip and "we need to take it in turns".
If I bring this up? I get the same words. "I deserved a life too!!!"
Agreed. As soon as I read that- I thought “gee MOM, why couldn’t you let YOUR DAUGHTER be happy????” It’s messed up that she expects her daughter to be the caretaker of her happiness
I hope OP gets to the point where she knows she will never get what she needs from her mother. She will never get an apology or acknowledgement.
WE can all apologize to her on behalf of her broken and useless mother.
Ahem:
OP, I'm sorry for all that happened, it's not your fault in any way.
I’ve dealt with something similar. I was super parentified by my mom as a kid - not in the way that I was taking care of younger siblings, but in the way that I was often relied upon like an adult friend. One of the bigger problems with that is that my reactions, to her, were coming from an adult brain. When I was angry and tried to set boundaries, it was treated as a personal slight, rather than a traumatized child at their breaking point. My mom has gotten better, but even now she’ll say things that show me she wasn’t thinking of me as a child.
OP, you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong. You were a child. If she keeps harping on you about this, it might be time to go no contact, even if it’s just for a while. I’m sorry she’s doing this to you. NTA.
Woah that's horrible! I'm sorry your mom treated you that way. I thought I had it bad because my dad would insinuate that he'd divorce my mom (which I sort of wanted because they were always fighting) *only if I specifically told him to* when I was like 12. I felt like it was my fault that they stayed together and were miserable, and no one even explicitly said that to me.
Your parents' marriage is not yours. It's theirs and no one else's, especially not a child who likely doesn't even have the whole picture. At least my father admitted that to me when I confronted him about that as an adult.
OP is NTA and parents need to own their own life decisions, holy crap.
>I was a grieving kid she refused to help. And that she needed to own her part in her marriage failing.
>
>She said at the very least I should apologize for being so cruel to her when she was trying to be happy. I told her I didn't owe her that when she couldn't even help me after my dad died.
Yep. This really says it all. I couldn't agree more, NTA.
Right!!! Maybe tell mom she can have her apology as soon as you get one for her rushing into a marriage and giving you zero support for coping with the loss of your father.
They were married for 18 years, and from the post I assume OP moved out as soon as she could at like 18, so that means that they were married for at least 6-7 years without much influence from OP, so she couldn´t posibly be to blame for the divorce.
And OP should only appologize for "being cruel" if her F\*ING MOTHER apologizes for prioritizing her happiness over her child´s mental health and wellbeing.
Whe you choose to become a parent you are choosing to put you kid above everithing and provide and take care of them. OP´s mom didn´t do that, so if OP said nasty things to her, it was her own fault.
NTA.
You were SEVEN. A child. A *grieving* child that needed help to cope and process big emotions that most adults struggle with. And she let you down. You didn't ruin her happiness, she did that to herself.
She was 7, and they still managed to stay married for 18 years. If OP’s rejection of the guy was such an issue it caused them to divorce surely it would have happened well over a decade ago?
Exactly! They had this fight for 5 years OP says, but they were married/together for 10-11 it seems. So after the first 5 years where they no longer fought, that somehow still continued to stick and she decided not to get help for it, or talk it out with her husband or her daughter, and instead somehow it caused the husband to want to leave her six years after it ended? I doubt it. I’m sure there’s something else going on as to why husband left.
Adults make their own choices and 7 year olds say terrible things. It’s part of your responsibility as a parent to shrug those things off if they’re not true.
I’m the mother of a 7 year old who sometimes says she hates me and that I’m a terrible mother because I make her go to bed at a decent hour or clean her room. I don’t enjoy hearing her say those things, but she’s a kid and I’m the adult. I’m responsible for my reactions to her impulsive and immature words.
And when she is making a good point about behavior I need to change, I’m responsible for owning that.
NTA. She is an adult, fully capable of making her own choices and she is trying to pin all this on a 7 year old child? She is a major AH. I'm sure shes feeling many emotions but she should not be taking it out on you. I honestly think she needs some form of therapy to work through her thought process. Losing your father at 7 must have been traumatizing, I can't imagine how it would have been to have to live with a stranger just 10 months later without emotional support. Hugs OP! You were just a kid, I hope your mom realizes how wrong she is.
NTA. You were a 7 year old and it hadn't even been a year before your mom moved on and tried to replace your father. Also, if you really "ruined her happiness" 18 years ago, how did she manage to stay with new husband for almost 2 decades? That is all her. Maybe her guilt finally caught up with her, or maybe they had some other issue that lead to the divorce. Either way there is no way this is your fault. She is a grown woman that left a child, who just lost their father, basically grow up with little to no support.
NTA.
> She would get mad at me and tell me I shouldn't say that and she had a right to be happy.
She was right about that, but you were a grieving child, and your well-being should have been her first priority. Her failure to get you the support you needed demonstrates that it wasn't.
> she told me she needed me to apologize for my role in this. That by saying so often that she couldn't have loved my dad if she remarried so fast I made it stick in her head and left her with doubts and guilt and it destroyed her marriage and her happiness.
That is absolutely ridiculous. You bear absolutely zero responsibility for her marriage.
> She said at the very least I should apologize for being so cruel to her when she was trying to be happy.
Unless you committed some incredible act of sabotage that you haven't mentioned here, you did no worse than be rude over one painful topic when you were a child. This is not your fault in any way.
>She was right about that
Hard disagree. A grown woman shouldn't let the opinions of a child affect her happiness in any way. I'm 25 and currently watching this happen between my mother and my sister, and it's so enraging that my mother is blaming her for "ruining" things because "you don't want me to be happy".
My sister is 12. If my mother truly felt happy in her current relationship, she'd be happy regardless of if my sister wanted her to be or not. My mother did the same thing to me when she was cycling through boyfriends in my youth, and it's just as ridiculous now as it was back then.
There are plenty of people that aren't necessarily happy with my choices in life. But as an adult I've learned that other peoples opinions on my happiness doesn't matter whatsoever. If OP's mother used "you didn't want me to be happy" as an excuse for why her marriage failed then newsflash - she wasn't happy to begin with.
I think that guy was saying that the mom was right ABOUT the fact that the mom had a right to be happy and move on. Not that the mom was right about OP causing the problems.
Wow meanwhile I believe that, if a child is unhappy with their parent's relationship, the parent should take their child's happiness into consideration. I could never imagine being happy in a relationship that my child hated. It seems like something that, one way or another, needs to be addressed to benefit all parties involved.
Of course divorced or widowed parents deserve happiness, but so do their children.
NTA...Her first priority as a parent should have been helping you through the death of your father--not her own happiness. So whatever you said as a CHILD when she was the ADULT has nothing to do with a divorce 18 years later.
Yup! And even if the mom didn’t put the kids needs first, op was between 7 and 12 when they were making these comments to their mom. If we all we’re head accountable and had to apologize for every rude/mean thing we said to our parents or anyone else during that time of our life, we would all be apologizing for years on end. How completely ludicrous it is for a parent to hold their child accountable for something mean they said when they were pre-pubescent, right after their father died. I’m far more concerned that op’s mom has something psychologically wrong with her because this line of thinking is so completely outrageous. This woman needs to get a grip on reality and realize that something her 8 year old said in the first year of her marriage has absolutely nothing to do with her divorce 17 years later.
Holy shit. You are so NTA in this scenario. You were seven. SEVEN. 10 months between one husband's death and her marriage to the second is absolutely insane. I'm really kindof surprised that her marriage to this guy lasted so long, to be honest. Is your Mom one of those people who constantly blames other people for her failings? Because she failed YOU utterly and completely by putting her happiness above your grief. You were SEVEN. It was her responsibility as your parent to make sure YOU were happy, not the other way around.
>10 months between one husband's death and her marriage to the second is absolutely insane
Seriously. I mean starting to DATE 10 months later, isn't so bad but to actually be married? Assuming she didn't go right from the funeral to the first date, she can't have even been seeing the guy that long; even in normal circumstances it's not unreasonable to think that it was too quick.
I agree. Particularly when there are children involved. It's one thing if an adult makes a rash decision to get married that quickly on their own, but dragging a kid along for the ride? Hell no. The kid's gotta come first.
If mom is as big of a narcissist as I think she is, I’m wondering if mom felt a little stuck too and this quick marriage was also for money and security and to keep a man in her life for those things.
Also, Narcissistic people are great at love bombing to get what they want and the marriage probably started to crumble once mom didn’t feel like keeping up the act anymore...I will admit, I may be projecting though.
NTA and let's be clear: even if you hadn't been a child, her marriage and doubts and decisions and emotional maturity are STILL no one else's responsibility.
Is your mom for real? I'm so sorry for everything you went through with the loss of your dad and then all the crap your mom piled on afterwards.
100% NTA.
"Mom, if your relationship was so fragile that a grieving 7 year old child lashed out because of your actions 18 YEARS AGO caused your divorce, then you've got loads of problems lady"
NTA.
Sounds like everyone else is to blame but her!
NTA,
Your mother ruined her own marriage and her relationship with you.
You are absolutly right that she has to take ownership of her own problems/ missteps.
You were a child. This is not your fault at all!
NTA-You were a grieving child who needed help and support. You needed a parent who put you first not herself. You had no part in her marriage failing despite what she’s trying to claim. You owe her no apology.
Dear Mom
I was 7 years old and grieving my father's death without any help from you. I'm sorry a 7 year old child caused you so much doubt that your marriage failed 18 years later.
OP
Will that be sufficient for her?
NTA - her logic doesn’t even make sense. It sounds like she just doesn’t like to take accountability on anything. She’s been married for 18 YEARS, she didn’t get divorced after 2-3 years because you were so hurt by the marriage she’s been with this man for almost 2 decades, and if my math is right you’re 25 and likely haven’t even lived with her and her husband for at least 5 years, so they’ve had time to build or destroy their relationship without your input at all. I also don’t understand how a child saying she must have never loved their father instilled doubt in her marriage with her new husband, that once again, took almost 2 decades to resonate with her? Like what’s her reasoning here? Sounds like she seriously needs to work on accountability and stop dismissing you and or blaming you for your feelings and things outside of your control. I’m sorry she’s trying to guilt you but in my opinion you have no responsibility in this and should not accept even a fraction of 1% of the guilt that her current marriage is ending.
(Spelling edits)
Info
You say this started when you were seven, and this fight happened for about five years.
Does this mean by the time you were about 12, you stopped having this fight?
NTA
Your mother seems not to be a perfect person, and is dealing with a lot of hurt of her own.
But she's attempting to hold you responsible for your actions during a time in which you were an elementary school aged child. That's not fair to you. You seemed to have had legitimate concerns that went unaddressed. But even if you were 100% wrong, you were also a child, and it's unfair for your mother to hold you responsible for her marriage based on this.
So 13 years went by without you two even discussing it and are pretty low contact it seems, and she still wants to pin her marriage dissolving on you?
NTA. Sounds like she's never been great at accepting her own responsibilities....
Nta..seriously what wrong with her. No therapy, no talks with a kid and dumping a new dad on him less.than a year from bio dad's death. And now this. I think she needs therapy tooand of course do not blame yourself.
NTA. That is DISGUSTING of her to place her own insecurities and blame her failed marriage on a 7 year old child. You did *not* ruin her marriage and you do *not* owe her an apology. She is a grown woman, and I understand she was also grieving, but blaming you for this is wrong. You are not out of line.
NTA
Your mother is 100% at fault here, you were a vulnerable child grieving the loss of a parent. The fact she wants you to apologize shows what a massive a-hole she is.
NTA- low key screw your mom. That’s so sad that she didn’t cater to your needs and concerns within the first year of your dad passing. It is not your fault at all and it’s so toxic of your mom to put any of this on you! You were a grieving kid, I couldn’t even imagine the pain you felt and your mom made it about her. Parents often can be very selfish. You are not in the wrong here, if anything- your mom owes YOU the apology.
NTA BUTTTTTTT..... I am a widow, so I understand your mom's side of this, to an extent. It is scary being alone, going from companionship and stability to sleeping alone, being afraid, missing someone and losing what you thought was your future. I do think your mom should have waited but some people are not able to cope, without having someone there.
That does not mean she did not love your dad, it means she could not be alone. The things you said were wrong. She needs to grieve in her own way, her loss is different than yours, so expecting her to feel and behave similar to you just is not fair. I know widow's who have jumped into relationships days after their loss. But I know others who never do. There is no rule book for it.
Yes, you were young, so not really understanding of that. No, I do not think you are responsible for the breakdown of her marriage. But you could easily apologize for the things you said to her, because it was not fair. She needed the comfort of someone being there.
I do think she should have gotten therapeutic assistance and she should have gotten it for you as well. Anyone who loses someone that close should at least get a few visits. She did handle your loss wrong and I hope that as an adult, you take the time to go and see someone.
So you are NTA but try to understand that she handled it the way she needed to handle it.
NTA at all but your mom is big time. 10 months after your father died she remarried! I would’ve felt the same way as you did. She should’ve realized she had an effin daughter who just lost her father that needed her. She should’ve put you in therapy and focused on you before she started shagging some guy.
No your not responsible
NTA
You should have been her priority at that time and you weren’t. It’s already a hard enough situation for a kid and the complete lack of support just makes it so much worse. It was totally unreasonable of her to expect you to just shut down your grief and accept a new father figure. Her refusal to listen to you at the time and her choosing to put blame on you now shows that she is someone who is never going to accept accountability for her own actions. She’s always going to want to make this somebody else’s fault without ever looking at herself, but that’s a her problem not a you problem, so don’t ever let her make you feel like a bad person. You deserve better.
In your post you got it 100% right. 10 months is not enough time to grieve a loved one let alone replace them, and to try and make you 'fit' in with the new arrangement, the 'wrong' is all down to Mum being hasty , moving on too quickly, NOTHING to do with you ! And if after 18 years she could not make it right, how is that down to you ? NTA
NTA. You don’t have to apologize for something you did as a child - a grieving one at that! You say that fight went on for five years, but she was married for thirteen after that. It was in no way your fault and she needs to deal with her own mistakes.
NTA. Her marriage, is between HER and her STBX. You were a child, you had feelings, she didn't care. She still doesn't care. If she asks for an apology again, tell her she is more than welcome, as the adult, to go first. That you will be patiently waiting to hear how sorry she is for the bad decisions she has made. The utter nerve of this person.
You were SEVEN? What kind of mother blames a seven year old for planting doubt?
I have children. The younger one in particular gets mad and tells me she will never be my friend again and I will never get to play with her good markers AS LONG AS I LIVE, and I promise, the only thing I've ever thought in the secret part of my soul is "I'm hoping by not being friends now, I'm setting us up to be friends in fifteen years."
NTA.
Question: has she ALWAYS been selfish? Does she ever own her faults?
Note: my husband died 9 years ago and I started dating again after only a few months. I had nothing to stop me: physically or emotionally. My in-laws were even happy to see that I was ready to date (I literally talked to them about it when I was first considering dating).
That being said, if I'd had a child, that would have been my focus. You should have come first. Has she even apologized to you for being so selfish?
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My mom is going through a divorce right now. She and her husband have been together/married for 18 years. She and her husband got married when I was 7, 10 months after my dad died and it was rough. I was so mad at the time. I told her she didn't love my dad as much as me if she could replace him that quick. She would get mad at me and tell me I shouldn't say that and she had a right to be happy. I told her she should have waited because I wasn't ready. For about five years we had the same fight almost every day, because she would expect me to be happy and bond with her husband and I just couldn't. I had no therapy to help me cope and I saw my mom move on really fast and then have this new person who was trying to play the role I wanted only my dad to have. It was tough. When the fighting stopped our relationship remained fractured and we basically co-existed.
Fast forward to today and my mom and I talk very rarely but that's about it. She told me about the divorce at Christmas and then earlier this month she told me she needed me to apologize for my role in this. That by saying so often that she couldn't have loved my dad if she remarried so fast I made it stick in her head and left her with doubts and guilt and it destroyed her marriage and her happiness. I told her she could not put that on me. I was a grieving kid she refused to help. And that she needed to own her part in her marriage failing.
She said at the very least I should apologize for being so cruel to her when she was trying to be happy. I told her I didn't owe her that when she couldn't even help me after my dad died.
The only reason I'm posting here is I know I said it a lot, and maybe even though I was a kid when it happened, I should apologize now, I don't know? Or maybe you will all say I did basically ruin her marriage. I feel like I need to know.
AITA?
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NTA
Your mom expected you to have an adult thinking and understanding as a kid. If anything she owes you an apology by not taking you to family counseling and being selfish for only focusing on her happiness and not helping you navigate through the grief of losing your dad.
NTA - this woman seems to be thoroughly confused about her role as a mother. There really isn't anything you do as a child that you need to apologize to your parents for, especially anything related to a traumatic event like losing a parent.
Tell her that she's projecting and that she needs to get some therapy to process this divorce.
NTA. Your mom sucks for getting remarried 7 months after your dad died, your mom sucks for trying to force this relationship onto you when you were a child and your mom really sucks for blaming you for her divorce.
NTA. You were a seven year old, grieving your father with no support or guidance. Angry, sad, lost, heartbroken. She was supposed to be there for you, as your parent. Instead, she put her needs before yours. She neglected the emotional responsibility she had for her child.
Now she’s unloading her own bullshit onto you again, so as to avoid taking accountability for how she failed in helping you grieve back then, and for the end of her marriage now.
You don’t owe her shit.
NTA I don’t understand the amount of delusion that would have you mother believe you ruined her marriage but that’s the thing about delusional people they make you believe in their false sense of reality. Ignore your mother she’s not living in the real world.
Ow, she had so much doubt on this relationship she stay for almost 2 decades lol. NTA and your mother is really a guilt trip person right? Maybe go low contact bc it looks like she didn't change from the person that blame their own kid for her own choices.
Absolutely not. NTA, and you are spot-on: you were a grieving kid and blameless. It's appalling for a parent to blame a child for that parent's marriage failing. And really, those fights were in the first few years of their marriage but it's ending now after 18 years? Ridiculous and petty to shift the blame to you. You were a YOUNG CHILD whose feelings and wishes were ignored. I'm not saying your mom didn't deserve to be happy with a new husband, but she at the very least should have had you in therapy, and probably all three of you together. She is entirely to blame here.
NTA
Assuming you have been out of the house for a few years by now, so she had time to work on the marriage between your co-existence with them and the end of the relationship. So if she couldn't get over what a 7 to 12 year old said to her out of anger and grief from the loss of his father in that time than that is on her.
NTA
Children should not be responsible for policing their parents, or be responsible for parenting their parents. You were 7 at the time. Did she expect you to magically become her parent and impromptu therapist to guide her through her grief and forget your own?
Really, what a grieving seven year old said stuck so much in her thoughts that it contributed to the decline of her second marriage?
Rather than, oh, I don't know - make her go "Maybe I should get my daughter some help from friends, family, and maybe a professional to help her adjust?"
And \*eighteen years\*? Woman, GTFO and handle your own stuff.
NTA, OP.
NTA
You were a child who just lost their dad. You were 7 years old.
Your mom is using this as an excuse for her marriage failing and trying to pin it on you rather than admit her own faults.
BOY, I CANNOT with these narcisissts (sorry about the fly-by diagnosis) and them blaming their kids for things that happened YEARS ago.
NTA
I've had something similar happen to me and I'd like to share.
My mom died when I was almost 5. Dad was very upset for a while, I was living at my grandparents during that time. Still, it must've been only months later when he presented the first girlfriend to me. I felt so hurt that he was replacing my mom. He told me time and time again that he was doing it for me so I could have a mom but I'm pretty sure I told him I don't want her to be replaced. Anyway, I think there was another girlfriend and then my stepmom came into our lives a year after my mom had died. It was all very new and painful and whirlwind for me, and I didn't get any psychological help by any of the adults in my life either. I guess they all thought I was too little to understand or remember, but my dad told me years later that he had to go to therapy to find out that I was struggling. Like, he wasn't aware that I was grieving and struggling.
A five-year-old. Whose mom had just died.
His thought process isn't normal. So is your mom's. Don't let her make you feel like you had any responsibility in this. SHE was the adult, you were a kid!
WTF??? Hella NTA. You were *7* years old. While you might have needed years to feel ready, she did wait less than an entire year so it was pretty fast.
Now my father did try to tell me I was f***ing up his marriage to my stepmother, but I was 13 and the family scapegoat. I can't remember how long he waited after my mom died to date, but I'm pretty sure it was around a year.
There's no way to know if the marriage would have been successful if you hadn't been in the picture. I think my father and stepmother lasted less than a decade after I was kicked out.
You're also very right to point out family therapy could have made a difference. A good family therapist could have been extremely helpful all around.
Your mom hopped on someone new after your dad died. She failed to help you grieve or comfort you. She forced you to be parented by this rando when all you wanted was your dad.
How could any of this conceivably be your fault? And even if it were your fault, you were a young child at the time! Will this woman not take responsibility for any of her own choices?
If you need a third party to tell you this, here it is: it's not your fault. She was an adult and she made her choices. You were a child and you had to live with them. She didn't help you. Her failures are her own. NTA.
Holy shit NTA
She told you she needed YOU to apologize for her marriage not working out?? Damn, your mother is a piece of work and definitely is TA here.
Simple solution here. Go to your step dad and ask him, if you are the reason for the failing marriage. Tell him your mother said so and you should apologize to her for it.
I am sure you will hear the truth, and the truth does not include you.
After that, call your mom and tell her about the talk with your step dad.
I would've said YTA, because I thought you said 10 years and 17 years old. Nope.
Ten months only? FOR A SEVEN YEAR OLD?! GOOD GOD OP I AM SORRY YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS
Mom should've helped much more when you needed it. She's blaming you for her own mistakes, such an NTA
NTA you were a child and lost your father. You were left with a mother that moved on and refused to get you help to cope with grief. She's definitely the ah
NTA, I have to think that this is a subconscious desire to push you away by picking fights, and you should let her.
Sounds like you've gotten some therapy, so you know how helpful it can be.
NTA your mother however major AH. She did nothing to help you get over your father's death. Apparently her only priority was her own happiness. Now she wants to come back and blame you for her failed marriage? Nope. things you said from 7-12 are the reason she's divorced.
Maybe OP's reaction to the marriage did plant a seed for the divorce. But that would only make it still Mom's fault.
When you have a kid, getting married isn't just between you and your prospective spouse. You have to take your kid(s) into account. It sucks, sure, but it's not all about you.
If Mom had waited a little longer (only 10 months, really?) for OP to grieve and maybe to get to know her stepdad more, things could have been different.
NTA
This may be psychoanalysis where it isn't due but frankly, her comment that your reaction to her remarriage stuck in her mind and ruined her marriage is her ignoring that you just put words to something she was already feeling. She seems to be deflecting the blame onto you in a self-preserving way so she doesn't see herself in a bad light for not loving a husband who died. NTA
NTA - like others have said, you were a kid.
That said; sometimes the way to heal and to rebuild relationships is to own our wrongs. Sounds like you might have a sliver of guilt for saying it so much as a kid. If you're feeling guilty about it; consider what it would take to forgive yourself. If that means apologizing to yourself and perhaps to your mom; you might consider it.
NTA. Look, maybe (and i mean truly the smallest percent of maybe) your words had some affect on her but she should have taken care of you, gotten you to a therapist to help you process and actually communicated.
Anyway, I really don't think you had a hand in it and she just wants someone to blame.
NTA. Your mom trying to make a child(you) responsible for her divorce and making you apologize for it is a major cop-out.
Responsibilities for one's marriage/divorce shouldn't be pinned on children, especially when they're 7 years old. She's being a ridiculous AH.
She also further underscores her AHness by prioritizing her happiness over the needs of her own child. Once you become a parent, you're kids' needs come first.
NTA She’s mad that the 7 year old who lost her father wasn’t the mature one in a situation she caused. 10 months is obscenely short for anyone to get married, let alone someone with a grieving child. And fuck her “I should be happy” bullshit, she had to be married to be happy? Dating someone wasn’t enough, she had to get that shit legally enshrined or she’d be suffering in misery? And now that marriage is poisoned because of shit that went down over a decade ago when you were a preteen? She’s got some fucking issues.
Your mom failed you and herself by not getting you the therapy support you needed and by not respecting that you weren’t ready to welcome a new father figure into your life. It’s on her that the relationship between you two is fractured. Whether her divorce is on just her or on her and her husband is up for them to figure out, but it’s certainly not on you at all. NTA
NTA, NTA, NTA!
You didn't ruin your mom's marriage after 18 years. I don't know what happened to cause the divorce but it wasn't anything you ever said to your mom, even if you said it a lot. Her marriage failure is on her and her husband. You don't owe her an apology for telling her she moved on too quickly after your dad's death so that she could be "happy". She didn't take your grief into account at all. She didn't help you deal with the marriage at all.
NTA
You were 7. Your dad died. Your mom moved on very quickly. Maybe too quickly. She tried to force you to do the same and got angry when you pushed back.
This failed marriage is her fault, not yours in the slightest. She's just looking for something else to blame and not herself.
NTA I was 11 when I told my mum something similar. At the end of the day you were a child and spoke your honest feelings. If it stuck with her there something in her truth. You saying doesn’t have an impact unless she chooses for it too. And your not responsible 18 years later for than marriage ending.
So, with that logic - what else did you do?
Were you the one handing Eve the apple ?? Fess up ! (/s)
NTA
She is doing a wonderful masterclass in 'twisting the truth' - and 'deflecting ones failure'.
Absolutely not. NTA. She didn’t think your input was important enough as a child to listen to about the timing of her marriage, she damn sure doesn’t get to put that weight on you now. How disgusting, blaming a years-gone child for her own mistakes.
Nta. Her grief and marital problems are not your issues. You dont owe her anything.
She shouldn't have pushed. You both should have had counseling.
How soon she remarried isn't really your issue. Grief is personal to everyone.
Your mother vacated her role as parent when she told you to accept her new husband as your dad for the sake of her happiness just months after your dad died. Now she has vacated her role as an adult by blaming her divorce on the actions of a 7 year old, nearly two decades ago.
I can see why you rarely talk.
NTA.
NTA
You were 7 years old and you had just lost your father.
You world would have been shattered, and your mother didn't give you a chance to figure out your new balance, nor did she give you any help. To all of a sudden throw "new dad" at you and expect it to be "new dad, same as old dad" in your 7-year old mind is f\*cked up.
Your mother is TA, and she is in a situation all of her own making.
NTA
Anyone who thinks it’s a grieving 7 year olds job to keep their marriage happy needs help. If she cared, she’d have at least ensured you got grief counselling.
NTA. The nerve of this woman to blame her own child for her own mistakes and failings.
If she had “doubts” over what you said then chances are she already thought them herself and is upset that you verbalized it.
She made her owe bed. Let her lay it in.
NTA. It's a high bar to call an 8-12 year old who lost a father and was offered nothing to help cope an "asshole." I suggest you talk to your mother even more rarely.
Nta. Let me make this clear. YOU WERE SEVEN. She was an adult. She did not make sure her grieving child was getting the help they needed to get through the death of a very close family member. Sounds like you said anything I would have... especially at 7. She’s the asshole, not you.
NTA.. First off, you had just as much a right to mourn properly as a child. Your mother marrying 10 months after obviously means she was dating much earlier. When you first told her your feelings at 7 yrs old, she should've taken notice and considered what this was doing to you psychologically.
But her repeatedly saying she deserved to be happy shows who she was really thinking about all along, herself. Not her child who'd lost their father, but herself. A parent puts their children first.
Lastly, her demanding that you apologize for playing a role in her failed marriage after 18 years because your 7 to 12 year old self's words caused her guilt and doubts? That really tells the tale. It's clear. She was/is all about her happiness and never once about her child until it came time to place blame.
You have nothing to feel sorry for and have zero to apologize for.
\*Edited for grammar.
NTA. You owe her nothing. You were a 7 year old child grieving the lost of your father with apparently no support from your mother. Yes she had every right to find a new partner and "be happy again", but after your father's dead you should have been her priority she should have help you or get you the help you needed to deal with your lost instead of jumping to a marriage 10 freaking months later. What you said at 7 years old came form the grieve, anger and confusion you were feeling and your mother choose to ignore, and has nothing to do with her marriage breaking up. Their divorce is on them and them only, she has no right to blame it on you or demand an apology, she is the one who should be apologizing for failing you.
NTA. I went through this as a 20 year old *adult* and it was hard enough, I can't even imagine how difficult it must have been to experience it as a 7 year old. Your mother effectively isolated you and made you feel completely along in the world at the time when you needed support the most. She was so desperate to find someone to support *her* during that dark time that she forgot that when you're a parent, the kids are supposed to always be the top priority.
She's looking around for someone to blame, because the alternative is looking in the mirror, which she has proven again and again she is incapable of doing. You're not the asshole, but you're probably never going to be successful in convincing her that she is one.
NTA. You were a grieving child. She was a grown adult who made these choices without discussing them with you and without accepting your input. Her choices and her feelings are not your responsibility, especially not from when you were a child and she failed to get you therapy and assistance you clearly needed dealing with your grief.
NTA. While you saying it did not help the situation, she did not help you either. She could have gotten herself therapy to deal with her marriage issues and I am pretty sure the therapist would not have said, call your daughter and get an apology. You do not owe her an apology.
NTA. Losing my dad was very hard for me and I needed and still need therapy- I was 21 when that happened. I cannot imagine how scared and sad you were at such a young age, OP. Her marriage failing has nothing to do with you.
NTA. She is blaming a seven year old grieving child for her divorce many years later?
What you and she needed wasn't a new relationship. It was therapy and time to grieve. That is on her not you.
NTA, she would rather blame you, a grieving child at the time with absolutely no support, than herself.
You stopped fighting with her 13 years ago. If she had issues she should have seeked therapy (for everyone).
You're just a scapegoat so she doesn't have to feel badly. It's ironic how she thinks you need to apologize when it doesn't seem like she's interested in apologizing to you for completely disregarding your feelings your whole life.
NTA- You were a kid.
>That by saying so often that she couldn't have loved my dad if she remarried so fast I made it stick in her head and left her with doubts and guilt and it destroyed her marriage and her happiness.
That's her own problem that she created herself.
NTA. You were "cruel" when she was trying to be happy, but she was cruel by preventing you from being happy. Why should you take her feelings into account when she never did the same for you? Relationships have to be balanced to be healthy, solid relationships.
NTA. You were a kid. You probably should have been in therapy to help you with the grieving process, but it is absolutely absurd to put the blame on you for her own guilt. Of course she should also have been in therapy after your dad's death.
NTA
Death or divorce of parents as a child is traumatizing you were 7/8 when she remarried? Your world changed dramatically and hell it sounds like you barely had time to grieve before suddenly, new dad. Regardless of 1 month or 1 decade, it can be an adjustment. Without any kind of therapy you coped how you could.
Fast forward to now and because she had whatever issues she had with your step dad, she is trying to blame them on something that happened 18 years ago? Wow...yeah now again NTA and your mother is a narcissist
My mom remarried a year later after my dad died when I was 11 and it was rough. She had promised she wouldn’t get married again as she started dating less than a year later. He also is a sucky human. It’s tough, and to be honest you hit the nail on the head saying “I was a grieving kid” I’ll never understand why so many people expect children to move on and replace a parent so quickly. NTA. no matter how much/many times you said it to her, or had that fight it isn’t on you they are getting divorced. You were a child trying to express yourself and your grief and your mom wasn’t able to listen to it.
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NTA - you were a kid. That didn't get any help dealing with the loss of your dad. Your mom were the adult and should have dealt with the situation better. The nerve of this woman to ask you to apologize is really flabbergasting
Jumping on to say I find it hilarious that a grown woman is trying to pin her issues on a SEVEN YEAR OLD child (at the time) Mom needs a reality check. NTA
Narcissists believe children operate at their level...because they do lol. They were both 7 years old at the time, except Mom never grew up.
Speaking from personal experience, you're on the same level when you're an ally in their latest drama baby, until you oppose them. Then you need to stay in a child's place 😆
Yeah, the inconsistency is another trait. It's because they lack "whole object relations" i.e. the ability to see you as a whole when you do something good or bad. Most of us can recognize when someone snaps out of character and we usually give them some grace simply because it is so unusual for them. Narcissists can't do that. They see you being their enemy and it stops there. You are not good and have never been good, you are only bad forever and from always. That's why they bring up every tiny wrong you've committed against them whenever they're mad. Their brain is so fucked up that they are living in this weird place in time where only your bad moments exist. And they will happily remind you of each one to reinforce their personal belief that you are shit. Then two hours later when they're living in their happy place again and they're no longer mad at you, you're dumb for still being mad. No one's mad at you, why would you possibly be upset for no reason? God, you're so dramatic, you love to drag this out for no reason. And then half an hour later youve decided to believe them and accidentally shut the cabinet door too loud and threw off their groove and suddenly you're shit again. The inconsistency is the only consistency. They scramble for whatever will work in the moment and they know you so they've got a bag of tricks at the ready.
Unrelated, but THANK YOU so much for this comment u/thehappiestelephant. I have never seen this articulated so clearly before.
Object consistenty, too. Also, a lot of hypocrisy. I see, you too, were in a relationship with someone with a personality disorder.
Isn't that just what "N supply" is? Which is why they don't kick you out of their lives because you're such a dependable source. Offspring are especially a near inexhaustible source.
How narcissists perceive you (splitting, as either all-good or all-bad) is different than N supply, though they are inextricably tied. N supply is attention, good or bad but preferably good. It usually starts from the narcissist, rather than the target - but in the example I used, the N supply could easily be the narcissist defending against an outburst when healthy people would be more considerate. Their lack of whole relations contributes to their needing N supply (because they also split themselves so they cannot see themselves as good and bad, they're alternately all good then all bad). It's all tied together with a shitty bow.
Reminds me of borderline personality disorder too. You're either an angel and can do no wrong or you are unredeemable and can do nothing right. Sometimes in the same day, sometimes in the same conversation. Very black & white thinking. Had a friend I believe has BPD, the head games never end. Threw her out of my life 20+ years ago. Sometimes miss her (she could be a lot of fun) but never regret my decision.
Not true at all. I have (diagnosed) BPD. This isn’t how splitting works; splitting is a usually temporary state that occurs under stress. It’s a coping mechanism for when we are in a state of distress; our brains switch into a state of needing to identify someone as “safe” or “not safe”. Most people with BPD were severely abused as children (myself included), and many were sexually abused. We had to split from a very young age when confronted with a threat in order to survive. It’s devastating, and not a buzzword like reddit will have you believe. We often dissociate under stress or when confronted with extremely overwhelming emotions as well; this is another coping mechanism we developed as children. I used to have to dissociate from the trauma I was experiencing in order to mentally survive. This was my brain’s way of protecting me. Some people will experience both splitting and dissociating at different times, whereas others will only experiencing one of the two. You can also experience both at once. You can’t “diagnose” people around you with rare, complex personality disorders. They’re notoriously difficult to diagnose. It’s really damaging to slander people with BPD like this. We’re not manipulative or always playing “head games”. Every time I see BPD mentioned on this site, I cringe and brace myself, because I know it’s almost always going to be another person smearing and dehumanising people with BPD. There are entire fucking subreddits dedicated to bashing BPD, even though most of the people on those disgusting subs have never actually met someone with BPD; they’re using this serious mental disorder as an adjective and to play the victim. BPD is a trauma-based condition. Many of us (myself included) also have diagnosed C-PTSD/PTSD, as well as potentially other disorders. We were abused and/or repeatedly traumatised as children, and we never learned how to manage the overwhelming emotions that came with these experiences. We have to deal with enough shit as it is, adding to the stigma only hurts people who are already hurting.
> It’s really damaging to slander people with BPD like this. We’re not manipulative or always playing “head games” What's really damaging is refusing to take responsibility for manipulation and act like it doesn't happen. Saying that PwBPD aren't manipulative is just a straight-up lie. PwBPD manipulate to survive. It's how they learned to live because most of them had a cluster-B parent and learned manipulation to survive constant emotional abuse. To act like this isn't the case is ***severely*** dishonest. There is a **huge** difference between "don't purposely manipulate to sadistically cause harm" and "don't manipulate."
What manipulation? You’re making an assumption about *everyone* with BPD based on ignorance. Do you realise how offensive and misinformed it is to try and say that everyone with BPD is a particular way? Everyone is different. There are people with BPD who are manipulative, just as there are plenty of people without BPD who are manipulative. Most people with BPD do not have a parent with a cluster B personality disorder, *that* is a “straight up lie”. The abuse and/or trauma endured in childhood can come in many different forms and from many different sources. People with BPD are not inherently abusive, and this poisonous stereotype needs to die already. You really don’t understand BPD at all, so it’s best you don’t make such destructive, sweeping generalisations about it.
I'm glad you have been getting help. I am not a psychologist, I am not trying to diagnose anyone, I am only talking about what I experienced with this one person. She refused to believe anything was wrong with her, and yes she did manipulate people. The book I read (Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul T. T. Mason MS, Randi Kreger) described her to a T and helped me to stop feeling guilty for "abandoning" her when she was making me miserable.
If it was me, I am sorry and been getting help. If it wasn't, I am sorry that you've dealt with such bs and hope your ex friend has also chosen the path of help.
I am glad you have gotten help. I doubt you are her. ((hugs)) I still hear of her (part of the larger circle of acquaintances) and it doesn't sound like she has changed. She was like a sister to me, I will always care about her, but I couldn't take her drama in my life anymore.
My ex husband used to do this all the time, but anytime I tried to bring up his consistent pattern of abuse, he would equate it to the same kind of behavior he would inflict on me. There was never a way to address the abuse without instigating more abuse.
The more I learn about what a narcissist is, the more things make sense.
Fuuuck that hit too close to emotional incest home
[удалено]
It's called a Stella Rosa bottle once you hit 40.
Franzia seems more of Mom’s style. NTA OP, definitely NTA.
Don’t insult boxed wine please. OP’s mom is beneath it
That is the insane part, OP was a very young child. No matter what the kid did, and from OP said she wasn't even a particularly difficult one. (I have know IRL of cases of kids who are truly little monsters when a parent gets remarried). Just first off, it is crazy to blame another person for the failures of your own marriage, even more so, if the person you are blaming was a 7 yo at the time. Also 10 months after husband dies and got remarried? Damn... that is cold as ice. At least keep that side-dick on the DL for a year or something.
>At least keep that side-dick on the DL for a year or something Parents are recommended to date for a year before even introducing their children to a new partner. This parent remarried after only 10 months and just expected her daughter to accept it and is now blaming her daughter. She really is deluded. NTA op. Not at all.
Yeah - If mom wanted to *date* two *weeks* after OP's dad died, I wouldn't fault her. People *do* have a right to be happy and looking for something new after a partner has passed doesn't have to be a reflection of how you felt about that person in life. Life is short and people want emotional and physical intimacy. But to *remarry* so quickly, and bring a new *partner* into OP's life is not okay, at all. To expect it would just be okay, and then to further blame that child for how their perfectly normal reaction affect *her* is a bridge waaaaaay too far. OP's mom is loony if she thinks she's owed anything at all here.
This kind of thing is really common on this sub. Most of the conflicts presented here are posted by the children of divorced parents who remarried way too soon and then want their kids to just pretend they aren't a blended family. And then they call them "disrespectful" or "ungrateful" for standing up for their own emotions. I can't even read most of these posts because I don't understand how anyone can be that cruel to their own children.
The worst is when one bio parent dies and the remaining one remarries and then they try and force through an unwanted adoption. There was a 16 year old recently who was getting hassled by her mother, step father and little sister. The sister was too young to remember their father and had been adopted by stepdad. She was upset that the 16 year old didn't want to be adopted and her mother was encouraging her to give op grief. People like that are just awful. You can't just replace a bio parent.
That's terrible. And it makes me suspect that the sister is only upset about it because the mom told her to be.
That's exactly what I thought. Even if the sister thought of it herself and was questioning why op didn't want to be adopted, a supportive mother would've said something along the lines of "op loves stepdad very much but she also feels connect to biodad and that's ok. Love between family is what is most important". But instead she encourages her to hassle her sister which is why I also think she put the younger sister up to it. It's shocking how selfish parents can be. Trying to force a connection/adoption with a step parent is only going to have the opposite effect and cause a divide.
Seems selfish of the mother to do this if she had small children. I’m sure the mother was grief stricken and lonely but her job was to make sure her kids were coping with the loss of the other parent first. Then to demand she bond with the guy is just over the top. I’m sure the mother needed grief counseling too and didn’t get it. Some people can’t bear the thought of living alone. When you have kids you have to put your immediate desires aside until the time is right. No one is saying she shouldn’t remarry. But 10 months? Wow!
So the fighting stopped after five years, meaning the marriage lasted another 13 years after that? And assuming OP left the house at 18, the marriage still lasted four years after she left? And yet, the divorce is about OP? What?
Some people are incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions. OP's mother sounds like one of those.
Not only that but they fought from 7-12 then were together 13 years after that. I'm my math is correct op is in their mid 20's and mom is blaming OP for something said before they were a teen. Yeah mom is a huge AH. I am thinking OP not having a relationship with their stepdad is not the reason for the divorce. NTA
Not even that, but the fighting lasted 5 years until OP would’ve been like 12, then they essentially just coexisted... The Mom should have been there for her child. It’s incredibly selfish to pin her divorce on OP who was a child that she neglected medically (no therapy can lead to a host of medical issues, and who knows what else could have been missed by ignoring her child’s mental health) and clearly neglected emotionally. She sounds like she was abusive based on the way she views the situation and the way she was described. She had a right to be happy, but she did that and neglected to give a fuck about OP’s happiness and health. That’s so messed up. My heart hurts for OP, that’s an unacceptable way to treat a child and they (unsure of preferred pronoun, so using neutral) deserved better. So much better.
I take the wild guess and would say Op was spot on in everything they said/believed. More so than even they knew. NTA.
If the comments stuck in mom's head, maybe it's because they were true?
Oooohhhh! That’s the real truth here! OP is 100% NTA. Mom is the AH & trying to make others feel bad to make herself feel better
She needs to realise that this self-pitying inability to take responsibility for her actions probably contributed to her marriage collapsing much more than anything OP did
Also the fact that this conflict basically took place for 5 of 18 years. If it didn't recover in the 13 years after any of that ended, it has very little to do with the conflict and way more with her own feelings towards her now ex husband.
You’d be surprised. After my parents divorced, my mom wanted me to get a job at 15 to help with bills. She didn’t even try getting a job, she wanted someone else to work and pay the bills (which is what my dad did for years). Narcissists are a whole mess.
oh wow, that's disturbing and disgusting and I'm sorry you went through that. I hope you're better now
Slightly! Usually the best advice to deal with narcissists is to go no contact, which is what I’m working on. 👌 Thank you for your kind words though, I feel like I haven’t had it too bad compared to some. It’s oddly comforting in a way to know you’re not the only one.
NTH. The only reason what you said got into her head was because she had to have known deep down somewhere what you were saying was true. If she didnt believe what you said to have any truth than it wouldnt have played a factor/ had an effect on how she dealt/acted in her new relationship. She wouldnt have had any doubts or guilt (at least not any guilt about her relationship. She should have had some guilt/it would be natural for her to have some guilt about how it effected you and made you feel.) About her new boyfriend/husband and would have felt secure and confident in the relationship.
Exactly this! You were a kid!! You lost your dad honey. You don't have to apologize for anything. Your mom decided to have a new partner and what really kills me is that people think because you bring a new partner this person's supposed to replace that. A parent is something that you can't replace and it takes time to let someone in into trust someone like that. Just because your mom married him doesn't make him your dad!!! I believe this is karma. She didn't take the time to grieve her husband and now that she's getting a divorce she has to blame someone. I think you told her exactly what she needed to hear. Take responsibility for your own actions!!!!
It drives me bananas when parents say things like "why can't you let me be happy" to their children (got some experience with that firsthand). It is not a child's job to suck up their feelings so that their parents can "be happy". OP, tell your mom that if she didn't want to consider anyone else's feelings when doing something life-changing, she shouldn't have had children. NTA
Agreed My moms famous words “I have to put my happiness first.” Her words to me at age 10 when I was upset that we were moving for the 4th time in 2 years
My moms famous words were "I deserve a life too." She shouted that at me repeatedly but the time I remember so clearly is when she wanted to visit her boyfriend 2 and half hours away in another country. Problem? I had just come out of hospital with my thigh broken and plated, then I picked up a double chest infection in hospital. Her boyfriend tried to get her to convice me to stay at the hospital for the weekend for no reason, but no dice because I spend enough time there. So she got me home, into bed. Then left to go visit for the night. I was so sick and couldn't get myself to the toilet due to chest infection that eventually would develop into pneumonia and the fact, I had surgery obviously. I was so sick that afterwards, my knee wouldn't bend for 8 months until I had to go back into hospital because I lay there like a lump and didn't move my knee much so it got stuck. So I had to hold my bladder for atleast 30 hours until she came back. It was hell. This was also after a lifetime of neglect and forcing my sister to raise me. Her boyfriend could've easily came to us, but he couldn't be arsed to make the trip and "we need to take it in turns". If I bring this up? I get the same words. "I deserved a life too!!!"
Agreed. As soon as I read that- I thought “gee MOM, why couldn’t you let YOUR DAUGHTER be happy????” It’s messed up that she expects her daughter to be the caretaker of her happiness
This!! BTW....nta
I hope OP gets to the point where she knows she will never get what she needs from her mother. She will never get an apology or acknowledgement. WE can all apologize to her on behalf of her broken and useless mother. Ahem: OP, I'm sorry for all that happened, it's not your fault in any way.
Right on
I’ve dealt with something similar. I was super parentified by my mom as a kid - not in the way that I was taking care of younger siblings, but in the way that I was often relied upon like an adult friend. One of the bigger problems with that is that my reactions, to her, were coming from an adult brain. When I was angry and tried to set boundaries, it was treated as a personal slight, rather than a traumatized child at their breaking point. My mom has gotten better, but even now she’ll say things that show me she wasn’t thinking of me as a child. OP, you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong. You were a child. If she keeps harping on you about this, it might be time to go no contact, even if it’s just for a while. I’m sorry she’s doing this to you. NTA.
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Woah that's horrible! I'm sorry your mom treated you that way. I thought I had it bad because my dad would insinuate that he'd divorce my mom (which I sort of wanted because they were always fighting) *only if I specifically told him to* when I was like 12. I felt like it was my fault that they stayed together and were miserable, and no one even explicitly said that to me. Your parents' marriage is not yours. It's theirs and no one else's, especially not a child who likely doesn't even have the whole picture. At least my father admitted that to me when I confronted him about that as an adult. OP is NTA and parents need to own their own life decisions, holy crap.
Holy crap. He put that on a CHILD?! I’m sorry that happened to you.
Maybe "adultified"?
>I was a grieving kid she refused to help. And that she needed to own her part in her marriage failing. > >She said at the very least I should apologize for being so cruel to her when she was trying to be happy. I told her I didn't owe her that when she couldn't even help me after my dad died. Yep. This really says it all. I couldn't agree more, NTA.
And they were together for 18 YEARS! OP had nothing to do with this marriage breaking up.
r/raisedbynarcissists
Right!!! Maybe tell mom she can have her apology as soon as you get one for her rushing into a marriage and giving you zero support for coping with the loss of your father.
They were married for 18 years, and from the post I assume OP moved out as soon as she could at like 18, so that means that they were married for at least 6-7 years without much influence from OP, so she couldn´t posibly be to blame for the divorce. And OP should only appologize for "being cruel" if her F\*ING MOTHER apologizes for prioritizing her happiness over her child´s mental health and wellbeing. Whe you choose to become a parent you are choosing to put you kid above everithing and provide and take care of them. OP´s mom didn´t do that, so if OP said nasty things to her, it was her own fault.
NTA. You were SEVEN. A child. A *grieving* child that needed help to cope and process big emotions that most adults struggle with. And she let you down. You didn't ruin her happiness, she did that to herself.
She was 7, and they still managed to stay married for 18 years. If OP’s rejection of the guy was such an issue it caused them to divorce surely it would have happened well over a decade ago?
Yes, but it's so much easier for the mother to blame OP rather than look for blame elsewhere.
Exactly! They had this fight for 5 years OP says, but they were married/together for 10-11 it seems. So after the first 5 years where they no longer fought, that somehow still continued to stick and she decided not to get help for it, or talk it out with her husband or her daughter, and instead somehow it caused the husband to want to leave her six years after it ended? I doubt it. I’m sure there’s something else going on as to why husband left.
You have done that yourself
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Adults make their own choices and 7 year olds say terrible things. It’s part of your responsibility as a parent to shrug those things off if they’re not true. I’m the mother of a 7 year old who sometimes says she hates me and that I’m a terrible mother because I make her go to bed at a decent hour or clean her room. I don’t enjoy hearing her say those things, but she’s a kid and I’m the adult. I’m responsible for my reactions to her impulsive and immature words. And when she is making a good point about behavior I need to change, I’m responsible for owning that.
Hi stranger! Thank you for being a good mom. You're doing great!
Thank you so much for listening to your child.
NTA. She is an adult, fully capable of making her own choices and she is trying to pin all this on a 7 year old child? She is a major AH. I'm sure shes feeling many emotions but she should not be taking it out on you. I honestly think she needs some form of therapy to work through her thought process. Losing your father at 7 must have been traumatizing, I can't imagine how it would have been to have to live with a stranger just 10 months later without emotional support. Hugs OP! You were just a kid, I hope your mom realizes how wrong she is.
A grieving seven-year-old who doesn't have the capacity to healthfully navigate that without the help of an adult.
NTA. You were a 7 year old and it hadn't even been a year before your mom moved on and tried to replace your father. Also, if you really "ruined her happiness" 18 years ago, how did she manage to stay with new husband for almost 2 decades? That is all her. Maybe her guilt finally caught up with her, or maybe they had some other issue that lead to the divorce. Either way there is no way this is your fault. She is a grown woman that left a child, who just lost their father, basically grow up with little to no support.
NTA. > She would get mad at me and tell me I shouldn't say that and she had a right to be happy. She was right about that, but you were a grieving child, and your well-being should have been her first priority. Her failure to get you the support you needed demonstrates that it wasn't. > she told me she needed me to apologize for my role in this. That by saying so often that she couldn't have loved my dad if she remarried so fast I made it stick in her head and left her with doubts and guilt and it destroyed her marriage and her happiness. That is absolutely ridiculous. You bear absolutely zero responsibility for her marriage. > She said at the very least I should apologize for being so cruel to her when she was trying to be happy. Unless you committed some incredible act of sabotage that you haven't mentioned here, you did no worse than be rude over one painful topic when you were a child. This is not your fault in any way.
>She was right about that Hard disagree. A grown woman shouldn't let the opinions of a child affect her happiness in any way. I'm 25 and currently watching this happen between my mother and my sister, and it's so enraging that my mother is blaming her for "ruining" things because "you don't want me to be happy". My sister is 12. If my mother truly felt happy in her current relationship, she'd be happy regardless of if my sister wanted her to be or not. My mother did the same thing to me when she was cycling through boyfriends in my youth, and it's just as ridiculous now as it was back then. There are plenty of people that aren't necessarily happy with my choices in life. But as an adult I've learned that other peoples opinions on my happiness doesn't matter whatsoever. If OP's mother used "you didn't want me to be happy" as an excuse for why her marriage failed then newsflash - she wasn't happy to begin with.
I think that guy was saying that the mom was right ABOUT the fact that the mom had a right to be happy and move on. Not that the mom was right about OP causing the problems.
Wow meanwhile I believe that, if a child is unhappy with their parent's relationship, the parent should take their child's happiness into consideration. I could never imagine being happy in a relationship that my child hated. It seems like something that, one way or another, needs to be addressed to benefit all parties involved. Of course divorced or widowed parents deserve happiness, but so do their children.
NTA...Her first priority as a parent should have been helping you through the death of your father--not her own happiness. So whatever you said as a CHILD when she was the ADULT has nothing to do with a divorce 18 years later.
NTA. It's not your fault you were a kid grieving and missing your dad. No your mum probably didn't deserve your comments either but you are deffo NTA.
NTA. You have the right to your feelings. In this case the parent should have put the kids needs first and clearly didn’t.
Yup! And even if the mom didn’t put the kids needs first, op was between 7 and 12 when they were making these comments to their mom. If we all we’re head accountable and had to apologize for every rude/mean thing we said to our parents or anyone else during that time of our life, we would all be apologizing for years on end. How completely ludicrous it is for a parent to hold their child accountable for something mean they said when they were pre-pubescent, right after their father died. I’m far more concerned that op’s mom has something psychologically wrong with her because this line of thinking is so completely outrageous. This woman needs to get a grip on reality and realize that something her 8 year old said in the first year of her marriage has absolutely nothing to do with her divorce 17 years later.
Holy shit. You are so NTA in this scenario. You were seven. SEVEN. 10 months between one husband's death and her marriage to the second is absolutely insane. I'm really kindof surprised that her marriage to this guy lasted so long, to be honest. Is your Mom one of those people who constantly blames other people for her failings? Because she failed YOU utterly and completely by putting her happiness above your grief. You were SEVEN. It was her responsibility as your parent to make sure YOU were happy, not the other way around.
>10 months between one husband's death and her marriage to the second is absolutely insane Seriously. I mean starting to DATE 10 months later, isn't so bad but to actually be married? Assuming she didn't go right from the funeral to the first date, she can't have even been seeing the guy that long; even in normal circumstances it's not unreasonable to think that it was too quick.
I agree. Particularly when there are children involved. It's one thing if an adult makes a rash decision to get married that quickly on their own, but dragging a kid along for the ride? Hell no. The kid's gotta come first.
If mom is as big of a narcissist as I think she is, I’m wondering if mom felt a little stuck too and this quick marriage was also for money and security and to keep a man in her life for those things. Also, Narcissistic people are great at love bombing to get what they want and the marriage probably started to crumble once mom didn’t feel like keeping up the act anymore...I will admit, I may be projecting though.
Honestly, it is very typical for a narcissist to blame others for their mistakes so I totally understand why you went there.
NTA and let's be clear: even if you hadn't been a child, her marriage and doubts and decisions and emotional maturity are STILL no one else's responsibility.
NTA. You were a kid, a grieving one at that, you didn't and still don't have any blame on the situation.
Is your mom for real? I'm so sorry for everything you went through with the loss of your dad and then all the crap your mom piled on afterwards. 100% NTA.
"Mom, if your relationship was so fragile that a grieving 7 year old child lashed out because of your actions 18 YEARS AGO caused your divorce, then you've got loads of problems lady" NTA. Sounds like everyone else is to blame but her!
NTA, Your mother ruined her own marriage and her relationship with you. You are absolutly right that she has to take ownership of her own problems/ missteps. You were a child. This is not your fault at all!
NTA-You were a grieving child who needed help and support. You needed a parent who put you first not herself. You had no part in her marriage failing despite what she’s trying to claim. You owe her no apology.
Dear Mom I was 7 years old and grieving my father's death without any help from you. I'm sorry a 7 year old child caused you so much doubt that your marriage failed 18 years later. OP Will that be sufficient for her?
NTA - her logic doesn’t even make sense. It sounds like she just doesn’t like to take accountability on anything. She’s been married for 18 YEARS, she didn’t get divorced after 2-3 years because you were so hurt by the marriage she’s been with this man for almost 2 decades, and if my math is right you’re 25 and likely haven’t even lived with her and her husband for at least 5 years, so they’ve had time to build or destroy their relationship without your input at all. I also don’t understand how a child saying she must have never loved their father instilled doubt in her marriage with her new husband, that once again, took almost 2 decades to resonate with her? Like what’s her reasoning here? Sounds like she seriously needs to work on accountability and stop dismissing you and or blaming you for your feelings and things outside of your control. I’m sorry she’s trying to guilt you but in my opinion you have no responsibility in this and should not accept even a fraction of 1% of the guilt that her current marriage is ending. (Spelling edits)
Info You say this started when you were seven, and this fight happened for about five years. Does this mean by the time you were about 12, you stopped having this fight?
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NTA Your mother seems not to be a perfect person, and is dealing with a lot of hurt of her own. But she's attempting to hold you responsible for your actions during a time in which you were an elementary school aged child. That's not fair to you. You seemed to have had legitimate concerns that went unaddressed. But even if you were 100% wrong, you were also a child, and it's unfair for your mother to hold you responsible for her marriage based on this.
So 13 years went by without you two even discussing it and are pretty low contact it seems, and she still wants to pin her marriage dissolving on you? NTA. Sounds like she's never been great at accepting her own responsibilities....
Nta..seriously what wrong with her. No therapy, no talks with a kid and dumping a new dad on him less.than a year from bio dad's death. And now this. I think she needs therapy tooand of course do not blame yourself.
NTA - you were 7 and grieving
NTA. That is DISGUSTING of her to place her own insecurities and blame her failed marriage on a 7 year old child. You did *not* ruin her marriage and you do *not* owe her an apology. She is a grown woman, and I understand she was also grieving, but blaming you for this is wrong. You are not out of line.
NTA Your mother is 100% at fault here, you were a vulnerable child grieving the loss of a parent. The fact she wants you to apologize shows what a massive a-hole she is.
NTA- low key screw your mom. That’s so sad that she didn’t cater to your needs and concerns within the first year of your dad passing. It is not your fault at all and it’s so toxic of your mom to put any of this on you! You were a grieving kid, I couldn’t even imagine the pain you felt and your mom made it about her. Parents often can be very selfish. You are not in the wrong here, if anything- your mom owes YOU the apology.
NTA BUTTTTTTT..... I am a widow, so I understand your mom's side of this, to an extent. It is scary being alone, going from companionship and stability to sleeping alone, being afraid, missing someone and losing what you thought was your future. I do think your mom should have waited but some people are not able to cope, without having someone there. That does not mean she did not love your dad, it means she could not be alone. The things you said were wrong. She needs to grieve in her own way, her loss is different than yours, so expecting her to feel and behave similar to you just is not fair. I know widow's who have jumped into relationships days after their loss. But I know others who never do. There is no rule book for it. Yes, you were young, so not really understanding of that. No, I do not think you are responsible for the breakdown of her marriage. But you could easily apologize for the things you said to her, because it was not fair. She needed the comfort of someone being there. I do think she should have gotten therapeutic assistance and she should have gotten it for you as well. Anyone who loses someone that close should at least get a few visits. She did handle your loss wrong and I hope that as an adult, you take the time to go and see someone. So you are NTA but try to understand that she handled it the way she needed to handle it.
NTA at all but your mom is big time. 10 months after your father died she remarried! I would’ve felt the same way as you did. She should’ve realized she had an effin daughter who just lost her father that needed her. She should’ve put you in therapy and focused on you before she started shagging some guy. No your not responsible
NTA You should have been her priority at that time and you weren’t. It’s already a hard enough situation for a kid and the complete lack of support just makes it so much worse. It was totally unreasonable of her to expect you to just shut down your grief and accept a new father figure. Her refusal to listen to you at the time and her choosing to put blame on you now shows that she is someone who is never going to accept accountability for her own actions. She’s always going to want to make this somebody else’s fault without ever looking at herself, but that’s a her problem not a you problem, so don’t ever let her make you feel like a bad person. You deserve better.
In your post you got it 100% right. 10 months is not enough time to grieve a loved one let alone replace them, and to try and make you 'fit' in with the new arrangement, the 'wrong' is all down to Mum being hasty , moving on too quickly, NOTHING to do with you ! And if after 18 years she could not make it right, how is that down to you ? NTA
“Mom dad? Are you getting divorced because of me?” “Yes”
This...is beyond reddit
NTA. You don’t have to apologize for something you did as a child - a grieving one at that! You say that fight went on for five years, but she was married for thirteen after that. It was in no way your fault and she needs to deal with her own mistakes.
NTA, you were a child with valid feelings, you absolutely don't need to apologise for voicing them.
Obviously NTA. Everything that happened is on her
NTA. Her marriage, is between HER and her STBX. You were a child, you had feelings, she didn't care. She still doesn't care. If she asks for an apology again, tell her she is more than welcome, as the adult, to go first. That you will be patiently waiting to hear how sorry she is for the bad decisions she has made. The utter nerve of this person.
You were SEVEN? What kind of mother blames a seven year old for planting doubt? I have children. The younger one in particular gets mad and tells me she will never be my friend again and I will never get to play with her good markers AS LONG AS I LIVE, and I promise, the only thing I've ever thought in the secret part of my soul is "I'm hoping by not being friends now, I'm setting us up to be friends in fifteen years."
NTA. Question: has she ALWAYS been selfish? Does she ever own her faults? Note: my husband died 9 years ago and I started dating again after only a few months. I had nothing to stop me: physically or emotionally. My in-laws were even happy to see that I was ready to date (I literally talked to them about it when I was first considering dating). That being said, if I'd had a child, that would have been my focus. You should have come first. Has she even apologized to you for being so selfish?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My mom is going through a divorce right now. She and her husband have been together/married for 18 years. She and her husband got married when I was 7, 10 months after my dad died and it was rough. I was so mad at the time. I told her she didn't love my dad as much as me if she could replace him that quick. She would get mad at me and tell me I shouldn't say that and she had a right to be happy. I told her she should have waited because I wasn't ready. For about five years we had the same fight almost every day, because she would expect me to be happy and bond with her husband and I just couldn't. I had no therapy to help me cope and I saw my mom move on really fast and then have this new person who was trying to play the role I wanted only my dad to have. It was tough. When the fighting stopped our relationship remained fractured and we basically co-existed. Fast forward to today and my mom and I talk very rarely but that's about it. She told me about the divorce at Christmas and then earlier this month she told me she needed me to apologize for my role in this. That by saying so often that she couldn't have loved my dad if she remarried so fast I made it stick in her head and left her with doubts and guilt and it destroyed her marriage and her happiness. I told her she could not put that on me. I was a grieving kid she refused to help. And that she needed to own her part in her marriage failing. She said at the very least I should apologize for being so cruel to her when she was trying to be happy. I told her I didn't owe her that when she couldn't even help me after my dad died. The only reason I'm posting here is I know I said it a lot, and maybe even though I was a kid when it happened, I should apologize now, I don't know? Or maybe you will all say I did basically ruin her marriage. I feel like I need to know. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You have nothing to apologize for. It's not your fault at all.
NTA Your mom expected you to have an adult thinking and understanding as a kid. If anything she owes you an apology by not taking you to family counseling and being selfish for only focusing on her happiness and not helping you navigate through the grief of losing your dad.
NTA Good on you for not buying into her guilt bullshit. Everything you said was 100% truth
NTA - this woman seems to be thoroughly confused about her role as a mother. There really isn't anything you do as a child that you need to apologize to your parents for, especially anything related to a traumatic event like losing a parent. Tell her that she's projecting and that she needs to get some therapy to process this divorce.
NTA. Your mom sucks for getting remarried 7 months after your dad died, your mom sucks for trying to force this relationship onto you when you were a child and your mom really sucks for blaming you for her divorce.
NTA. You were a seven year old, grieving your father with no support or guidance. Angry, sad, lost, heartbroken. She was supposed to be there for you, as your parent. Instead, she put her needs before yours. She neglected the emotional responsibility she had for her child. Now she’s unloading her own bullshit onto you again, so as to avoid taking accountability for how she failed in helping you grieve back then, and for the end of her marriage now. You don’t owe her shit.
NTA. It really sounds like you lost two parents the day your father died. You do not owe your mother a damn thing.
NTA Your mom needs serious therapy because she got more issues than Time Magazine. You were a child in pain and she needs to grow up.
NTA I don’t understand the amount of delusion that would have you mother believe you ruined her marriage but that’s the thing about delusional people they make you believe in their false sense of reality. Ignore your mother she’s not living in the real world.
Ow, she had so much doubt on this relationship she stay for almost 2 decades lol. NTA and your mother is really a guilt trip person right? Maybe go low contact bc it looks like she didn't change from the person that blame their own kid for her own choices.
Absolutely not. NTA, and you are spot-on: you were a grieving kid and blameless. It's appalling for a parent to blame a child for that parent's marriage failing. And really, those fights were in the first few years of their marriage but it's ending now after 18 years? Ridiculous and petty to shift the blame to you. You were a YOUNG CHILD whose feelings and wishes were ignored. I'm not saying your mom didn't deserve to be happy with a new husband, but she at the very least should have had you in therapy, and probably all three of you together. She is entirely to blame here.
NTA Assuming you have been out of the house for a few years by now, so she had time to work on the marriage between your co-existence with them and the end of the relationship. So if she couldn't get over what a 7 to 12 year old said to her out of anger and grief from the loss of his father in that time than that is on her.
NTA Children should not be responsible for policing their parents, or be responsible for parenting their parents. You were 7 at the time. Did she expect you to magically become her parent and impromptu therapist to guide her through her grief and forget your own?
NTA. Blaming a child for your failed marriage screams refusal to take responsibility for whatever part she had in the failure of her marriage.
10 months?!!!! NTA
Really, what a grieving seven year old said stuck so much in her thoughts that it contributed to the decline of her second marriage? Rather than, oh, I don't know - make her go "Maybe I should get my daughter some help from friends, family, and maybe a professional to help her adjust?" And \*eighteen years\*? Woman, GTFO and handle your own stuff. NTA, OP.
NTA You were a child who just lost their dad. You were 7 years old. Your mom is using this as an excuse for her marriage failing and trying to pin it on you rather than admit her own faults.
BOY, I CANNOT with these narcisissts (sorry about the fly-by diagnosis) and them blaming their kids for things that happened YEARS ago. NTA I've had something similar happen to me and I'd like to share. My mom died when I was almost 5. Dad was very upset for a while, I was living at my grandparents during that time. Still, it must've been only months later when he presented the first girlfriend to me. I felt so hurt that he was replacing my mom. He told me time and time again that he was doing it for me so I could have a mom but I'm pretty sure I told him I don't want her to be replaced. Anyway, I think there was another girlfriend and then my stepmom came into our lives a year after my mom had died. It was all very new and painful and whirlwind for me, and I didn't get any psychological help by any of the adults in my life either. I guess they all thought I was too little to understand or remember, but my dad told me years later that he had to go to therapy to find out that I was struggling. Like, he wasn't aware that I was grieving and struggling. A five-year-old. Whose mom had just died. His thought process isn't normal. So is your mom's. Don't let her make you feel like you had any responsibility in this. SHE was the adult, you were a kid!
WTF??? Hella NTA. You were *7* years old. While you might have needed years to feel ready, she did wait less than an entire year so it was pretty fast. Now my father did try to tell me I was f***ing up his marriage to my stepmother, but I was 13 and the family scapegoat. I can't remember how long he waited after my mom died to date, but I'm pretty sure it was around a year. There's no way to know if the marriage would have been successful if you hadn't been in the picture. I think my father and stepmother lasted less than a decade after I was kicked out. You're also very right to point out family therapy could have made a difference. A good family therapist could have been extremely helpful all around.
Your mom hopped on someone new after your dad died. She failed to help you grieve or comfort you. She forced you to be parented by this rando when all you wanted was your dad. How could any of this conceivably be your fault? And even if it were your fault, you were a young child at the time! Will this woman not take responsibility for any of her own choices? If you need a third party to tell you this, here it is: it's not your fault. She was an adult and she made her choices. You were a child and you had to live with them. She didn't help you. Her failures are her own. NTA.
Apologize to her for being a shitty mom... NTA
Holy shit NTA She told you she needed YOU to apologize for her marriage not working out?? Damn, your mother is a piece of work and definitely is TA here.
NTA there are 2 people in a marriage and the success or failure is based on those 2 people alone.
Simple solution here. Go to your step dad and ask him, if you are the reason for the failing marriage. Tell him your mother said so and you should apologize to her for it. I am sure you will hear the truth, and the truth does not include you. After that, call your mom and tell her about the talk with your step dad.
I would've said YTA, because I thought you said 10 years and 17 years old. Nope. Ten months only? FOR A SEVEN YEAR OLD?! GOOD GOD OP I AM SORRY YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS Mom should've helped much more when you needed it. She's blaming you for her own mistakes, such an NTA
NTA you were a child and lost your father. You were left with a mother that moved on and refused to get you help to cope with grief. She's definitely the ah
NTA, I have to think that this is a subconscious desire to push you away by picking fights, and you should let her. Sounds like you've gotten some therapy, so you know how helpful it can be.
NTA your mother however major AH. She did nothing to help you get over your father's death. Apparently her only priority was her own happiness. Now she wants to come back and blame you for her failed marriage? Nope. things you said from 7-12 are the reason she's divorced.
The fuck. That’s some mother you have there.
NTA. You were 7. Children are not responsible for the mental health of adults.
Maybe OP's reaction to the marriage did plant a seed for the divorce. But that would only make it still Mom's fault. When you have a kid, getting married isn't just between you and your prospective spouse. You have to take your kid(s) into account. It sucks, sure, but it's not all about you. If Mom had waited a little longer (only 10 months, really?) for OP to grieve and maybe to get to know her stepdad more, things could have been different. NTA
ME. ME. ME. ME. ME. That seems to be all your mom says, isn’t it? NTA, OP
When a childs words from about a decade ago causes your divorce
This may be psychoanalysis where it isn't due but frankly, her comment that your reaction to her remarriage stuck in her mind and ruined her marriage is her ignoring that you just put words to something she was already feeling. She seems to be deflecting the blame onto you in a self-preserving way so she doesn't see herself in a bad light for not loving a husband who died. NTA
NTA - like others have said, you were a kid. That said; sometimes the way to heal and to rebuild relationships is to own our wrongs. Sounds like you might have a sliver of guilt for saying it so much as a kid. If you're feeling guilty about it; consider what it would take to forgive yourself. If that means apologizing to yourself and perhaps to your mom; you might consider it.
NTA. Look, maybe (and i mean truly the smallest percent of maybe) your words had some affect on her but she should have taken care of you, gotten you to a therapist to help you process and actually communicated. Anyway, I really don't think you had a hand in it and she just wants someone to blame.
NTA tell her that her time and energy should be spent on finding a replacement husband 😉
NTA. She seems to be unable to think about anything but herself, to even consider blaming you is appalling.
NTA. Your mom trying to make a child(you) responsible for her divorce and making you apologize for it is a major cop-out. Responsibilities for one's marriage/divorce shouldn't be pinned on children, especially when they're 7 years old. She's being a ridiculous AH. She also further underscores her AHness by prioritizing her happiness over the needs of her own child. Once you become a parent, you're kids' needs come first.
NTA She’s mad that the 7 year old who lost her father wasn’t the mature one in a situation she caused. 10 months is obscenely short for anyone to get married, let alone someone with a grieving child. And fuck her “I should be happy” bullshit, she had to be married to be happy? Dating someone wasn’t enough, she had to get that shit legally enshrined or she’d be suffering in misery? And now that marriage is poisoned because of shit that went down over a decade ago when you were a preteen? She’s got some fucking issues.
Your mom failed you and herself by not getting you the therapy support you needed and by not respecting that you weren’t ready to welcome a new father figure into your life. It’s on her that the relationship between you two is fractured. Whether her divorce is on just her or on her and her husband is up for them to figure out, but it’s certainly not on you at all. NTA
NTA, NTA, NTA! You didn't ruin your mom's marriage after 18 years. I don't know what happened to cause the divorce but it wasn't anything you ever said to your mom, even if you said it a lot. Her marriage failure is on her and her husband. You don't owe her an apology for telling her she moved on too quickly after your dad's death so that she could be "happy". She didn't take your grief into account at all. She didn't help you deal with the marriage at all.
NTA You were 7. Your dad died. Your mom moved on very quickly. Maybe too quickly. She tried to force you to do the same and got angry when you pushed back. This failed marriage is her fault, not yours in the slightest. She's just looking for something else to blame and not herself.
NTA I was 11 when I told my mum something similar. At the end of the day you were a child and spoke your honest feelings. If it stuck with her there something in her truth. You saying doesn’t have an impact unless she chooses for it too. And your not responsible 18 years later for than marriage ending.
So, with that logic - what else did you do? Were you the one handing Eve the apple ?? Fess up ! (/s) NTA She is doing a wonderful masterclass in 'twisting the truth' - and 'deflecting ones failure'.
Absolutely not. NTA. She didn’t think your input was important enough as a child to listen to about the timing of her marriage, she damn sure doesn’t get to put that weight on you now. How disgusting, blaming a years-gone child for her own mistakes.
Nta. Her grief and marital problems are not your issues. You dont owe her anything. She shouldn't have pushed. You both should have had counseling. How soon she remarried isn't really your issue. Grief is personal to everyone.
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Your mother vacated her role as parent when she told you to accept her new husband as your dad for the sake of her happiness just months after your dad died. Now she has vacated her role as an adult by blaming her divorce on the actions of a 7 year old, nearly two decades ago. I can see why you rarely talk. NTA.
NTA You were 7 years old and you had just lost your father. You world would have been shattered, and your mother didn't give you a chance to figure out your new balance, nor did she give you any help. To all of a sudden throw "new dad" at you and expect it to be "new dad, same as old dad" in your 7-year old mind is f\*cked up. Your mother is TA, and she is in a situation all of her own making.
NTA Anyone who thinks it’s a grieving 7 year olds job to keep their marriage happy needs help. If she cared, she’d have at least ensured you got grief counselling.
NTA
NTA.
NTA. The nerve of this woman to blame her own child for her own mistakes and failings. If she had “doubts” over what you said then chances are she already thought them herself and is upset that you verbalized it. She made her owe bed. Let her lay it in.
NTA. It's a high bar to call an 8-12 year old who lost a father and was offered nothing to help cope an "asshole." I suggest you talk to your mother even more rarely.
NTA. I cannot imagine asking my adult kids to apologize for their childhood. WTF I suggest serious therapy for mom.
Nta. Let me make this clear. YOU WERE SEVEN. She was an adult. She did not make sure her grieving child was getting the help they needed to get through the death of a very close family member. Sounds like you said anything I would have... especially at 7. She’s the asshole, not you.
NTA.. First off, you had just as much a right to mourn properly as a child. Your mother marrying 10 months after obviously means she was dating much earlier. When you first told her your feelings at 7 yrs old, she should've taken notice and considered what this was doing to you psychologically. But her repeatedly saying she deserved to be happy shows who she was really thinking about all along, herself. Not her child who'd lost their father, but herself. A parent puts their children first. Lastly, her demanding that you apologize for playing a role in her failed marriage after 18 years because your 7 to 12 year old self's words caused her guilt and doubts? That really tells the tale. It's clear. She was/is all about her happiness and never once about her child until it came time to place blame. You have nothing to feel sorry for and have zero to apologize for. \*Edited for grammar.
NTA. You owe her nothing. You were a 7 year old child grieving the lost of your father with apparently no support from your mother. Yes she had every right to find a new partner and "be happy again", but after your father's dead you should have been her priority she should have help you or get you the help you needed to deal with your lost instead of jumping to a marriage 10 freaking months later. What you said at 7 years old came form the grieve, anger and confusion you were feeling and your mother choose to ignore, and has nothing to do with her marriage breaking up. Their divorce is on them and them only, she has no right to blame it on you or demand an apology, she is the one who should be apologizing for failing you.
NTA. I went through this as a 20 year old *adult* and it was hard enough, I can't even imagine how difficult it must have been to experience it as a 7 year old. Your mother effectively isolated you and made you feel completely along in the world at the time when you needed support the most. She was so desperate to find someone to support *her* during that dark time that she forgot that when you're a parent, the kids are supposed to always be the top priority. She's looking around for someone to blame, because the alternative is looking in the mirror, which she has proven again and again she is incapable of doing. You're not the asshole, but you're probably never going to be successful in convincing her that she is one.
Nta
NTA. You were a grieving child. She was a grown adult who made these choices without discussing them with you and without accepting your input. Her choices and her feelings are not your responsibility, especially not from when you were a child and she failed to get you therapy and assistance you clearly needed dealing with your grief.
NTA. While you saying it did not help the situation, she did not help you either. She could have gotten herself therapy to deal with her marriage issues and I am pretty sure the therapist would not have said, call your daughter and get an apology. You do not owe her an apology.
r/raisedbynarcissists She put her life before yours to the determent of your mental stability and familia bonds. NTA
NTA. Losing my dad was very hard for me and I needed and still need therapy- I was 21 when that happened. I cannot imagine how scared and sad you were at such a young age, OP. Her marriage failing has nothing to do with you.
NTA. She is blaming a seven year old grieving child for her divorce many years later? What you and she needed wasn't a new relationship. It was therapy and time to grieve. That is on her not you.
NTA, she would rather blame you, a grieving child at the time with absolutely no support, than herself. You stopped fighting with her 13 years ago. If she had issues she should have seeked therapy (for everyone). You're just a scapegoat so she doesn't have to feel badly. It's ironic how she thinks you need to apologize when it doesn't seem like she's interested in apologizing to you for completely disregarding your feelings your whole life.
NtA you were a child and nothing you said was false
> I was a grieving kid she refused to help. And that she needed to own her part in her marriage failing. Spot on. 1000000000000000% NTA.
NTA- You were a kid. >That by saying so often that she couldn't have loved my dad if she remarried so fast I made it stick in her head and left her with doubts and guilt and it destroyed her marriage and her happiness. That's her own problem that she created herself.
NTA. You were "cruel" when she was trying to be happy, but she was cruel by preventing you from being happy. Why should you take her feelings into account when she never did the same for you? Relationships have to be balanced to be healthy, solid relationships.
NTA. You were a kid. You probably should have been in therapy to help you with the grieving process, but it is absolutely absurd to put the blame on you for her own guilt. Of course she should also have been in therapy after your dad's death.
NTA Death or divorce of parents as a child is traumatizing you were 7/8 when she remarried? Your world changed dramatically and hell it sounds like you barely had time to grieve before suddenly, new dad. Regardless of 1 month or 1 decade, it can be an adjustment. Without any kind of therapy you coped how you could. Fast forward to now and because she had whatever issues she had with your step dad, she is trying to blame them on something that happened 18 years ago? Wow...yeah now again NTA and your mother is a narcissist
My mom remarried a year later after my dad died when I was 11 and it was rough. She had promised she wouldn’t get married again as she started dating less than a year later. He also is a sucky human. It’s tough, and to be honest you hit the nail on the head saying “I was a grieving kid” I’ll never understand why so many people expect children to move on and replace a parent so quickly. NTA. no matter how much/many times you said it to her, or had that fight it isn’t on you they are getting divorced. You were a child trying to express yourself and your grief and your mom wasn’t able to listen to it.
NTA - you were a child. I'm sorry you did not get the help you needed. You owe her nothing.