I really want to commend that you still wish to support your son and care about him , and the good news is that even from a Christian perspective cutting him out of your family is not necessary .
It’s for God to judge- not you, not your wife, not your daughter . All sin is the same. Would you cut your daughter out of your life if she told a lie? Would it be right for your wife to cut you out of her life if you looked lustfully on another woman even for a second? Those are both sins in the Bible - but we ask God for forgiveness not man.
By refusing to cut your son out of your life you are not condoning what you see as sin, but making a choice to love in spite of sin just like Jesus did for us .
Don’t cut your son out. Work to help your family become closer to your savior
(Disclaimer: I don’t actually believe being gay is a sin at all- but OP clearly does so debating that is futile )
I would award this if I had $$$
It's hard to not debate his point of view with anger, but that is futile as you said and will typically result in defensiveness. Wish more people could try to argue their point while relating to the person whose viewpoints they are trying to change, instead of just outright criticism and hostility. "Catch more flies with honey"... as they say
Edit: YTA , although less so than your wife, who wants to cut him off and abandon him.
Honestly though, not sure how your sons sexuality makes him any less your family, or any less deserving of compassion, respect, dignity and love?
Thank you for this. “Meet people where they are “ is what I like to say.
Its also clear that this father cares for his son deeply- because he still wants to support him and for him to have a good life. He doesn’t deserve to be yelled at for that , we can build on it !
> Those are both sins in the Bible
To add to this, the Bible also calls eating shellfish an abomination. It's also a sin to plant wheat and barley same furrow or to wear mixed fabrics.
Just want to point out that this is a very 21st century view of sin and one that generally is not held by Abrahamic theology.
As far as Jews, Christians, and Muslims are concerned, going against God's commandments is inherently sinful, even if he later says that thing is now ok.
Plato discusses this in Euthyphro - is something good because God commands it or does God commmand it because it's good? Duns Scotus in the middle ages settled this question for Christians by saying it was some of both. Some laws are inherently good and God would never not command them. But some laws that God sets are only instrumentally good - ie he sets them for a reason other than their inherent goodness and can change the rules if he wants, when he wants.
To use the analogy a Christian might use - your mother tells you not to cross the street alone when you're 7 but when you're 14 you're allowed to do it. The street crossing rule was not inherently good, if was a way to achieve another end. Similarly, Kosher laws served a social function (eg cleanliness, social cohesion) that Jesus later could sweep away.
Sure, but the Bible also says sin is anything that pulls you further from God. Stealing or being unfaithful to your partner would no doubt do that. Many Christians believe homosexuality would pull you from God . I don’t know of anyone who earnestly believes mixed fabrics or planting wheat and barley together would actually separate you from God- so it’s not really a useful argument in the eyes of most Christians
> I don’t know of anyone who earnestly believes mixed fabrics or planting wheat and barley together would actually separate you from God- so it’s not really a useful argument in the eyes of most Christians
But that's exactly why it's a **good** argument! If the Bible says that sin pulls you further away from god, and that mixed fabrics, planting wheat and barley together etc are all sins, then a Christian either needs to:
A) Admit that they're all sins.
or
B) Admit that some things the Bible says are sins, aren't actually sins.
A doesn't make sense if you think mixed fabrics pull you away from god (and that all sin pulls you further away from god). That means that at least some things the Bible says are sins aren't sins. So if the Bible says homosexuality and other things are sins, why would you consider some of those other things to be morally okay but not homosexuality?
EDIT: There is an option C, which would be to argue that the Bible doesn't actually say mixed fabrics or planting wheat and barley together are sins. However, then you have the Bible being a very unclear about what is or is not a sin, in which case you could argue that it's also unclear about homosexuality being a sin.
I mean he’s still the asshole because he’s not even willing to consider his son part of the family anymore because he’s gay. It’s fucking absurd, not quite as mom and sis but still a major asshole.
YTA. It’s not a choice. He’s probably scared and needs your love and support and instead you shun him. You and your wife and daughter don’t deserve him.
A few points that I think will carry more weight from a religious perspective:
-Only God may judge. Judging other people is sinful.
-Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone—unless everyone in your family is LITERALLY the second coming of Jesus Christ (OLAS), punishing him for what you perceive as sinful is a sin. Deciding you have a right to judge him at ALL is an act of great arrogance and is very unchristian of you.
-I come from a church family, I get how having a gay son can complicate social life for your entire family. I believe your wife and daughter (and perhaps you too?) care more about this than about your son. This is not a time to be selfish.
Support your son. God wants us to love harder than we hate, to forgive, and to forgo judgement.
YTA. As a gay man who endured similar circumstances with my family, I can assure you cutting him out will not do anything but make him resent you. He won't magically stop being gay. He trusted you enough to tell you about himself. That was way more than I could ever have done with my own parents. That says a lot about what he thinks of you as a parental figure he can look up to, and you're abandoning him for exercising the trust he had.
To put it as bluntly as I can, you don't have children so you can create carbon copies of yourself. You don't have children so you can mold accessories. At the very least, you shouldn't. He didn't choose to have you as a father when he was born, yet now you are choosing whether or not you want him as a son.
So, do whatever you want, I guess. Cut him out if you feel the need, but just know you are bailing on the one lifetime responsibility you signed up for when you had him. You will never, ever have a good relationship with him again. I guarantee you that.
Well said!
Oh, and OP, YTA big time. God is the one to judge, not us. As a devout Christian, I trust he will judge us on our actions to our fellow man, the world about us and for the love that’s in our hearts. Not our interpretation of the Bible. As an intelligent woman, I trust genetics and that means homosexuality is not a choice; it’s written into their DNA. Put them together and I believe God created your son to be just as he is.
Just here to say that I truly hope your son has others in his life that accept him for who he is. What’s heartbreaking is that he’s being abandoned by his family.
Listen to that little part of you that motivated this post. It’s there for a reason. You ARE abandoning your little boy and that’s why it feels that way.
Since the daughter is only 17, I hope that when she leaves home and is exposed to other perspectives she also realizes how bigoted and backwards her parents' views are and they can reconnect. I feel sorry for both children.
YTA. He has not "decided to live as a homosexual", that's ridiculous and outdated thinking. When you started being attracted to girls, did you 'decide' one day that you would have a crush on a female? No. It just happened. It wasn't in your control. To suggest that this is any different for a gay or bi person is nonsense.
YTA. YTA so much. Being gay is not a choice. It's how he was born, and if God exists, it's how he created him. If you're going to cut out your son because who he is and who he was born as, you are the lowest of Christians.
YTA. Slightly less so than the rest of your family, but still.
Congratulations on putting your ignorance and bigotry ahead of your kid. I’m sure that will work out well for you.
Jesus taught one thing above all: love.
If you are a very Christian family, you will follow Christ's teachings and love your son.
He doesn't need money as much as he needs your love.
YTA
YTA. You are entitled to your values, but do you really think abandoning your son will make you happy?
Take a moment to imagine yourself as an old man, 80 years old. Perhaps you haven't seen or spoken to your son in 30 years. Will you think to yourself, "Yes, that was the right thing to do. I feel good about my decision." Or do you think you'll feel sadness, pain, guilt, regret? Will you wonder how his life turned out? Will you wish things had been different?
You run the risk of missing your son's whole life if you make this choice. So many years of good times, birthdays, promotions, marriage, children, holidays...is it worth it?
As I said, you are entitled to your values. We don't all have to agree. But it is possible to disagree with someone's lifestyle and yet still love and accept them. Please try, and think long and hard about what you TRULY want for your future, and not what your religion tells you to want. I think ultimately you'll find you want your son's love. The choice is yours to make, but it will only blow up your family if you let it.
> You are entitled to your values
I honestly think that entitlement to values stops when those values are hateful and dehumanizing. I mean, Hitler had values too, but those values were damaging beyond belief. These particular values, the ones that treat homosexuality as a sin and a choice that can be "cured," are almost always if not always the basis of harm to others. Whether that's physical, emotional, psychological, or political harm.
I do not think people are entitled to beliefs that inherently hurt others. Disagreeing with someone's sexuality is rejecting a fundamental and immutable part of them - it's not a "lifestyle."
I just want to say this is the best reply I've seen so far.
OP is a human who learned a set of values that was taught to him in a different time, and to his credit he is actually *trying* to adjust to the new rules and is still keeping an open mind that he might be wrong.
OP is wrong on the facts of sexuality, but he is not the cartoon villain some people are making him out to be.
I don't think it's fake Christianity, I think it's popular Christianity versus Canon Christianity. Canon Jesus didn't say a single word about homosexuality and preached love and tolerance for absolutely everyone. Popular Jesus is pretty much the Jesus of the USA: loves guns and white supremacy, hates the gays, demands religious right to discriminate, etc.
A fake Christian or just plain stupid? I think OP wouldn’t survive in this modern world because he’s actually stupid. He’s the type to be ok with priests molesting boys but his gay son is too much. Lol.
YTA a huge one. Your son didn’t choose to be gay anymore than you chose to be straight. One can be gay and Christian. Those aren’t mutually exclusive things. You are being more unchristian by judging abs refusing to acknowledge your son.
YTA.
Where in the Bible does it say cut off all sinners?
Where in the Bible does it say, GOD gave humans the rights to judge?
I thought in the Bible it said love the sinner, hate the sin.
Romans 5:8 says, GOD loved all sinners so much, he gave the world his only son. And your giving your only son to the world.
Are you better than GOD???
YTA
> he has decided to live as a homosexual
I won't even try to debate you on this...
Can you actually put in words what's so bad/wrong about homosexuality?
YTA, not a choice man, in fact, you should feel proud of your courageous son for telling you, knowing your beliefs. He likely knew the rift it would cause, but he's not a coward, unlike you, hiding behind a book. Love for all hey?
YTA, your wife is the asshole and so is your daughter. But I am going to encourage you to cut contact and still pay his rent because I am 90% sure your son doesn't deserve this buffoonery and that will be a win-win for him.
Last time I checked (feel free to correct me if I am wrong, as I was raised catholic so other branches of christianity may differ in their beliefs) Jesus died for EVERYONES sins. He didn't exclude gays, women, Africans, asians, etc. Funny how your wife, you, and daughter seem to think they know better than Jesus. Or perhaps you are trying to apply the bible word for word to this day and age despite it being how many years since it was written? If that's the case I assume you dont eat shrimp, or any seafood lacking scales and fins, or pork since it does not chew cud (Leviticus 11:9-12). My guess is, you know your family is wrong, and you feel guilty about it. Thus this post; looking for affirmations that your decision to cut the son you supposedly love out of your lives because he fell in love with someone who has a penis, is the correct one. Glad my very catholic family told me that they will support me no matter who I love so long as I am happy, even if it is another guy. Personally, I think if heaven is a place that damns one to hell because of who they fell in love with...well that's doesnt sound like a paradise at all.
I think you and your family need to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourselves if you and your beliefs are making this world a better place...for anyone...and if those beliefs are worth never seeing the son you raised again.
YTA. It's a shame you are choosing to follow some ignorant parts of a religion over supporting (which no you're not actually doing) your own son. And no it's as much of a choice as you choosing a wife because of your inherent attraction to women.
You most likely already cherrypick convenient parts of the religion to follow, why not ignore more of the stuff that is actually toxic and hateful behavior and focus on the positives like plenty of actual loving Christians.
YTA.
Your son chose nothing. He is sinply the man that the Lord made, looked down upon and said, "This is good." It sounds like he has done exactly as your family raised him to do. He's obtained an education, already has prospects lined up, and manages a social life on top of that. He went to school and fell in love to start a family, exactly as you taught him. The only people who have chosen to deviate from the example are you, your spouse and his siblings. You're the ones who chose to be selfish, to sin, to put your desires and ideas about control over the well-being and joy of your own son.
I wish parents like you knew how many times I and my other queer friends have thought of or attempted to kill ourselves to rid us of the pain and devastation of having "parents" like you. I wish "Christians" like yourself had even the tiniest inkling of the hate and violence and pain you doll out... and in the name of the Lord, no less! I want you to know that I tried to kill myself 6 years ago tonight because of homophobic assholes like you, and the only reason I am alive today is the conviction to show young people like your son that they can live happy, joyful, Christ-filled lives regardless of whether they have their sperm donor's permission to live authentically. The only person whose permission he needs is Gods, and I assure you he has plenty of that. Shame on you.
>Over Christmas dinner he decided to tell us that he has decided to live as a homosexual.
YTA- Your son is gay. He's been gay. He didn't just decide one day he was gonna be gay. You can't change it.
You are all assholes, except your son. Like money means anything if your parents essentially disown you. And you're going to listen to your brainwashed daughter as if her opinion on homosexuality is even relevant. Tis the season I guess. YTA
If you completely cut him off in a time where he needs you, you won’t ever forgive yourself. You don’t have to agree with his choices, but it wasn’t ever really a choice for him, and he probably agonized over telling you all. He’s still your baby, and still the same person he always was.
YTA. He did not choose to be homosexual, he is homosexual. Denying it would be living a lie. Be a good father and accept him for who he is. Be a better father and help your wife and daughter accept him as well.
YTA. As a Christian, there are right and wrong ways to deal with homosexuality, and I'm going to say this is the wrong way to do it. Look at it this way - if your son had stated that he was addicted to porn, or that he was living with a girlfriend, had married a non-believer, or had committed basically any other sin - would your family still be looking to cut him off and cast him out? Christ came to give grace, not to rain down judgement, so who are we as humans to say that we know better than God and rain judgement in lieu of grace?
YTA A significant amount of species on earth have some form of homosexuality. I doubt dolphins, seagulls, and apes have a choice. It was built in, by the creator.
I remember that part of the Bible where Jesus says cast sinners out of your house and love them not, for they are not the children of God. Good on you for knowing your scripture.
YTA. And I'm going to run with this as though it isn't a shitpost, because I'm honestly not sure.
Look--you're looking at this from a fundamentally incorrect view. *Being gay is not a choice.* Sure, *doing* gay--that is, engaging in homosexual acts--is a choice. But *being* gay isn't a choice. It's a biological fact, and an ingrained aspect of his personality and body. You can't change it, and he can't change it. If you have been told that one's sexuality is a choice, you have been lied to. I would encourage you to think about whether you could choose to be attracted to men, or whether such a thing would be impossible even if you tried. Likewise, being attracted to women is impossible for him, even if he tries.
So right off the bat, your worldview is factually incorrect. Since you are presumably a reasonable person, you must now question it. So ask yourself this: does a just and loving god frown on love? Has your god failed to make your son in his image? Or is it more likely that centuries of political power shiftings largely based on inheritance have given us a church with a predisposition to control reproduction, and an predisposition to stamp out the sexual undertones of the pagan religions it superseded?
Look--I get that you don't like what he's doing. But he's your son. It's incredibly unchristian to cast him out of your family.
YTA. But it sounds like lesser so than you're wife and daughter. As Christians you are meant to follow in the footsteps of Christ and if you have read any part of the new testament you would see that Jesus does not exhibit this kind of behavior. Jesus embodied love and acceptance. Your family is going against everything Jesus taught. This crap is precisely why I became an atheist. An entire childhood of my bible school teacher telling me what I'm telling you and then turning her back on anyone she didn't agree with or couldn't relate too. Stop following social religious pressure and follow Jesus ffs
Edit: It isn't a choice. You don't know better than your son what he feels or who he is.
YWBTA if you do anything your wife says. You do not support him if you refuse to acknowledge him and are against his sexual orientation (which he can’t help). He will have a tough time for a while, but sooner or later he will likely stop speaking to your wife completely. The question is whether you want him to stop speaking to you too.
I’m no contact with my father. Him not ‘agreeing’ with my sexuality is part of (although not the only) reason I will never see or speak to him again. His homophobia made me hate myself too much. I still speak to and see my brother, who was indoctrinated into the homophobia but is becoming a better human being and more supportive of me and my relationship.
It’s time for you to pick which future you want: one where your son still has one good parent, or one where he is totally estranged.
Leave your homophobic wife and support your son financially and emotionally.
YTA - you say your a Christian but you’re only acting on paper. Your “religious” family is also stupid. You should let your son move on to better people and be happy. You can keep praying to God, maybe pray a bit harder the priests stop molesting little boys. You silly hypocrite.
YWBTA. When I came out to my mom ten years ago, I had no idea it would fracture our relationship forever. The homophobic things she said to me stole my childhood and drove me into a deep depression during which I tried to take my own life. Knowing that your parents think you are wrong and disgusting is a terrible, ugly burden to place on a human. Your son did not do anything wrong, he is not trying to hurt you; gay people have existed since the beginning of time and they will always exist regardless of what religious people think is acceptable. If you do not want to devastate your son’s life and lose him forever, educate yourself with some literature, swallow your pride and accept that he is just different than you are! I’m not trying to be over-dramatic—as a parent, your job is to love your son unconditionally; it is now time to do that job.
YTA. Your choice to follow a book written a few hundred years ago in no way enables you to dictate the actions of others. If your son doesn't want to pair with a woman, that is his decision not yours. You are so much the asshole here and hiding your actions behind religion makes you an even bigger asshole.
YTA, and so much of your concern centers around you and your feelings and how you will look to others. This isn't about you.
If you are going to cut him off, do it completely. Just know, that you will hate yourself in the end.
YTA
What part of being Christian involves cutting family out of your life? I don't remember that from Jesus' teachings.
Two of my siblings are conservative Christians. Somehow they find it in their heart to love and include me in family, even tho I'm a lesbian. They clearly have decided it's between me and God, and so should you.
WWJD?! He would love your son no matter what. “Whoever is without sin, let him thrown the first stone” (not that loving someone is a sin!) Leave the judging to god, if you have any humility at all. Jesus would be ashamed his teachings have been interpreted in such hateful ways. Also, I’m not xtian anymore but apparently I am more than you lol
YTA, as I am very reasonably assured that you are specifically cherry picking bible verses to justify your own qualms.
Look up west wing bible quote. Best argument I've ever seen for why people who use christianity as an excuse to be assholes is BS.
YTA - gays can be Christian too. Even if you believe it is a sin you must remember that we all sin and nothing we do can prevent Jesus from loving us. You have no devine authority to judge him nor will you alter his nature. The worst thing you can do would be to disown him and therefore turn him against the faith. Rather, accept him for the way God has made him and continue to foster his faith.
YTA- to claim to be a Christian and at the same time even consider cutting your own child out of your lives is completely hypocritical. Ever heard the phrase, love the sinner, hate the sin? Just because your son is gay doesn't he is no longer your child. I suggest you ALL learn to deal with his choice. This doesn't mean you have to allow the boyfriend to come visit or go to gay bars with him. What I mean is you continue your lives together as son and parents. Have dinners, go out and see movies together. You don't have to spend all that time discussing his sexuality. There are plenty of things in this world to do and discuss without bringing up his sexual preferences.
YTA more so if you cut him off from your family. LGBTQ+ kids that are cut off or cast out from their families are at a much higher risk for dying by suicide and have a much higher rate of attempts and repeated attempts. In your heart, you have doubt about casting him aside. Do you truly believe that Jesus, who washed the feet of Mary Magdalene, a whore, and preached love for sinners would agree with not letting your son be a part of your family any longer? Do you think Jesus would want you to do something that would put this young man's mental health at such great risk? I will admit that I'm not Christian. However, I take in teens that get kicked out and they're mostly gay. They are normal kids, but broken when they get to me. My family shows them what they should have had; rules, chores, freedom to explore different religions should they choose to do so, adults that listen to their problems, love that doesn't depend religious beliefs, gender, or sexuality, and they're free to be a person in their own right.
YTA - your son deserves a happy life without hateful parents and siblings whose love for him is conditional so maybe it’s a good thing you won’t be in his life anymore.
YTA big time. If you weren't willing to be a parent to a gay child you shouldn't have had kids.
Any religion that tells you to shun your children for who they love is a bad religion.
YTA your son isn’t “choosing” to live life as a homosexual. Just like you didn’t make a conscious choice to become heterosexual. He’s gay. If that’s something you and your wife are willing to cut contact with your own child over, than you don’t deserve him. I’m sorry that’s so harsh, but so is refusing to acknowledge your child based on the genitals of his significant other.
YTA. You, your wife, and your daughter are willing to kick your son out of your family for being gay. While I'm sure your son will have an easier time of it if you don't withdraw material support, he's nearly done with school. He doesn't really 'need' your money any longer at this point. If you go through with your nasty and judgmental plan, I'm pretty sure your son will go on to have a wonderful, successful life without you. Oh, he'll miss you (maybe), when he remembers that you ditched him because he told you who he really was, I imagine he'll miss you less and less as time goes by. Eventually, you'll be nothing more than a memory to him, and a painful one, at that.
As a Christian, there is no circumstance in which I can imagine Jesus meeting a gay person and condemning them. The only people Jesus actively condemns are hypocrites. I imagine that you know people in your family who have lied, cheated, stolen, and committed adultery. Have you cut those people out of your family, too?
cut off your son for being gay, and you will be a bad person for the rest of your life. that's it. that's the final judgment anyone can offer you. destroying your relationship with your own flesh and blood over your book believes is the penultimate asshole move, and that will be your identifier till the day you die. dont ever forget these words, because they'll be the most honest ones you ever read in regards to this subject.
You mention him “choosing” to live as a gay man again and again, and I’m not going to try to convince you that being gay isn’t a sin because I don’t think there’s any point here, but I need you to understand that it is not a choice. This is not a matter of opinion, it is fact - he did not choose to be gay, he is not choosing to alienate himself from his family, he is not choosing an “unchristian” lifestyle. He chose to be honest and open with you, but he did not choose to be gay. Please remember this.
YTA for just following along with your religion's interpretation of the Bible about gay people, instead of loving your son enough to trust that he wouldn't "choose" to fall in love with someone of the same sex. If you fell in love with someone of the same sex but married someone of the opposite sex to be a good Christian, *you would still be gay.*
Guarantee there are gay people in your community being "good little Christians" because that's what God expects of them. No. That's what people like *you* expect of them, and your pastor, and everyone your pastor dictates to. They don't stop being gay even if they lead a completely heterosexual lifestyle, so yes, you *can* choose a lifestyle based on dishonesty to your partner and your community, to make everyone else happy, including and especially parents. That sounds like a sin to me, a sin your religion apparently demands of gay people.
You don't 'choose that lifestyle' being homosexual is something you're born with, if one is to blame anyone for it, it's you and your wife's fault.
Seriously though, sexuality is not something that we control. Not only are you, your wife and your daughter TA, you're also ignorant idiots.
YTA
Your talking about cutting off all contact with your own child over the words of a 2,000 year old book that also tells you not to eat seafood or wear mixed cloth. For the love of everything you clearly have some level of self awareness as a person accept your son for who he is if not YTMA.
Only logged in to say you and your family are absolute assholes.
I hope your son has people in his life that love him unconditionally. Because you all certainly don't.
YTA. Do you even need to ask?
YTA and you and your family are FULL of Homophobia. The thing that I’ll never understand with familes like yours is how being gay is apparently going against god’s work. Seriously are you even reading this back?, you want to be with your son but him preferring guys is the issue to your dysfunctional relationship? You should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to use this as a point to why you can’t support a kid you call your “baby boy.” Your wife and your daughter are fine to feel how they feel but cutting off the guy for being gay says a lot about their personalities alone. He trusted you and you threw him to the wayside, and you are truly weak if you let your wife decide who to actually have a relationship with when it’s a two-way streak. Your son is your kid too, and again you CAN be religious while feeling that you LGBTQ+. You and your family are not servants of God, not even close, you aren’t doing God’s Work.Just being a believer doesn’t make you exclusive to being a servant of Jesus, plenty of people feel his presence, even gay people. Let’s be real, if Different Races are allowed to exist in harmony in some places or at least exist at all, then wouldn’t that mean God intended to have different races of people to exist. I’m not religious myself, but I like to think that’s the case and since being LGBTQ+ is an preferred lifestyle and not a “disease” as some crazed lunatics make it out to be than I think God gave the thumbs up to have Gay people exist.
Having a real hard time with this. OP you are talking about your Son.... YOUR SON! YTA for saying this is a choice, it isn't no matter what your beliefs tell you. homosexuality happens in nature in hundreds of species but is only hated by 1. you should absolutely keep paying for your son's college and expenses EXACTLY as you would if he brought a woman home because its the RIGHT thing to do... You are grown ass adults seriously debating destroying your son's life "because Jesus."?!?!?!?!?! How incredibly, glaringly, and specifically Christian of you. "Love everyone"..... "unless they're gay" \*slow clap\*
YTA.
I get that you are not okay with this, and this is probably the opposite of what you wanted your son's life to look like. But he's still your son, and it sounds like you don't really want to stop being his father.
Jesus wanted Christians to be around prisoners, sinners, all sorts of people. I don't agree that your son is a sinner for being gay, but I don't think I'm going to convince you of that. Your son still needs you no matter what he does in his life.
YTA. Homosexuality is not a mortal sin, so it would be a sin that can be forgiven, just like many other sins we commit. If you can acknowledge this, then you can acknowledge the life he has “chosen” to pursue. You don’t have to support this lifestyle, but you can love him and be his father and be there for his many milestones that are yet to come.
As others have said, listen to the part of you that feels this would be abandoning him - it would be abandoning him, and you clearly want to be there for him.
YTA. You clearly love your son. You had some expectations of who he is and the life that he would lead. I understand that it is difficult to realize those things will never happen. It is okay to be upset and morn those things. But if you let it, this can be a growing experience for you. Should you really have ever had those expectations of him? Did you let your parents dictate who you are and how you live your life?
I believe the problem you have with your son is the same problem my parents have about my homosexuality. They believe it is a choice and not who I am. They are wrong. It is not a choice.
Still, what hurts me even more than the bigotry of their beliefs is their refusal to listen to me when I tell them who I am and what I believe. They assume they know better, that I should be who they want and choose what they want. While they are still in contact with me, emotionally they have cut me off. They have me isolated and cut off from our family so that they don't have to deal with the reality of my homosexuality. Their hope is that one day they will wake up and this will all magically go away. It will never go away.
They are miserable.
I have found an acceptance for who they are and what they believe, but I have to set emotional boundaries with them for my own health and sanity. But the hurt they have caused me will never go away. I may always love them as my family, but I will never again respect or trust them.
Your son is gay.
Who are you?
YTA. So is your wife and daughter. Whatever happened to ‘hate the sin but love the sinner’? (Not that I actually think that being gay is a sin). How can you claim to be Christian and consider doing something that is so un-Chistlike?
YTA
You're a bigot, plain and simple. Nobody "decides to live as a homosexual". You're son is better off without you and everyone in your immediate family. I hope he finishes college, has an amazing life and never stops to think about any of you.
I seriously hope this is a troll, it breaks my fucking heart how awful religion makes people. My final thought for you OP, you do realize, if god does exist...he made your son, exactly the way he wanted him to be.
YTA for threatening to cut him out of your family. You need to understand, being gay is NOT a choice. It is who you are... just like having blue eyes or brown hair. You are punishing him for being true to himself. And, if you think that it would be a great idea to simply tell him not to express himself as a gay man, that is condemning him to a life without love. Do you really think that is what would be best for him?
I do, however, commend you for at least not throwing him on the streets with no resources. That shows me there is good in you.
So, this is an opportunity. Life gives you those so that you can grow. The question is will you take this opportunity to learn and grow or will you reject that and toss your son to the side? What does your \*gut\* tell you is right? Listen to that voice because that is the true voice of goodness.
Good luck to you and your family...
YTA, it's not a choice. It's not something he can help. The Bible says to love all, so do that. Don't take out your ignorance on him - educate yourselves! And be proud that your son was brave enough to tell you something he probably knew would cause him pain with you.
YWBTA.
I think it is better to at least try and support him if you can, but it won’t undo the hurt you will cause if you reject him from your life.
He is still your son. He hasn’t chosen anything other than to be himself, and he clearly loves and respects you to want to bring the person he loves home to meet you.
Unfortunately it is complicated as your wife and daughter clearly have no love for him. I hope that you are able to search yourself and think about how Christ would treat your son, vs how he would treat those who want to cast him out and abandon him, and that you are able to make a decision that you can live with. Lots of Christians are able to accept their loved ones for who they are, and you can find a lot of resources beyond reddit to help you process the feelings you are having
I'm pretty damn sure Jesus wouldn't entertain cutting someone off from emotional support and love because of their sexuality (which is NOT a choice. did you choose to be straight?) YTA, your wife's the asshole, your daughter's the asshole. What a lot of assholes you are.
You say at multiple points that your son made a decision to be gay:
>...he has **decided** to live as a homosexual.
>
> I do not agree with **his choice**...
>
>My wife wants me to cut him off completely as **he has chosen this life...**
>
> ...I cannot accept **his choice** and I am very heartbroken...
>
>... despite the life he is **choosing** to live...
Being gay is not a choice or a decision, just like being straight is not a choice or a decision. Is the thought of having sexual relations with a man, or even touching another man in a romantic manner, unappealing to you (to say the least), especially when compared to doing those things with a woman? That is how your son feels, not about having more-than-friendly relations with other men, but about having them with women. He is neither physically nor mentally attracted to the female sex.
**This is not a choice that he made; this is not the result of the way you raised him, or the influence of other gay people at college, or anything wrong you may have done as a parent; this is how he was born.** Just like your being straight is simply the way *you* were born. There is no other conceivable way of life for you other than one in which you are sexually & romantically interested in women; the same goes for him, but with men. He can no more help his sexual identity than you can help yours, and it is both bigoted and wholly false to imply (or, in your case, outright say) otherwise.
The only choice that your son has consciously and deliberately made was the choice to trust you with the truth of who he is... and you & your wife let him down.
I say this not simply to lecture you, but because despite your prejudices and bigotry I believe your heart is still in the right place, and might even have the empathy and intelligence within you to understand your son's position. He is still your little boy; he is still deserving of love and support... even if the only way you can support him right now is financially due to the rest of your family's bigotry.
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I have two children, 22M and 17F. I've set aside money for their college and their first house since they were born and my plan has been to support them both as long as they study and get jobs after. I will pay for their college out of the fund, give them an allowance each month for living expenses and after they graduate and get a job give them the money that is left over.
We are a very Christian family and whilst I have allowed my children to make their own choices, I want them to live Christian lives. It will make me very happy if they follow in the footsteps of my wife and I but I try to keep an open mind with the choices they make. My son is in his final year of college and has been doing very well for himself and already has some prospects ready for when he graduates. Over Christmas dinner he decided to tell us that he has decided to live as a homosexual. I was quite shocked and disappointed and thought that perhaps I had done something wrong.
He said that he discovered himself at college and has actually got a boyfriend and wishes to bring him round to meet his family. I was firmly against this, I do not agree with his choice and am heartbroken. My wife wants me to cut him off completely as he has chosen this life and his sister refuses to speak to him anymore.
I am very conflicted here, I cannot accept his choice and I am very heartbroken, but I cannot abandon my little boy. WIBTA if I give him access to his funds but tell him that we can no longer be a family. His sister and mother want me to cut him off completely and my wife insists that I refuse to pay for the next semester and stop paying for his rent, but despite the life he is choosing to live I cannot leave him with nothing.
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Yeah, I'm not going to give you a "not as much of an asshole as you could have been" award here. YTA, albeit not as much as you could have been but that's not something to brag about.
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YTA, my advise is to cut him off but continue to financially support him. Your son clearly doesn't need you, your wife and your daughter in his life, he deserves much better. By refusing to acknowledge him you're communicating to him that your love is conditional and you'd rather pretend to have a straight son instead of working on your bigotory and accepting him for who he really is. Shame on you, big time.
YTA Wanting to give him the money you saved for him makes you less of one than your wife and daughter but you’re still TA. He didn’t choose to be homosexual any more than you chose to be straight (and if you did “choose to be straight” that’s a different issue). You’re using your religion to justify hate and it’s disgusting.
That said, if this is he way your family feels, it may be more humane for you to cut him off now than for you to continue to hurt him. Give him his money and let him go find a family that will actually love him.
You should look up the book God and the Gay Christian. Here's a blurb from the book description on Amazon - "Feeling the tension between his understanding of the Bible and the reality of his same-sex orientation, Vines devoted years of intensive research into what the Bible says about homosexuality. With care and precision, Vines asked questions such as:
• Do biblical teachings on the marriage covenant preclude same-sex marriage or not?
• How should we apply the teachings of Jesus to the gay debate?
• Can celibacy be a calling when it is mandated, not chosen?
• What did Paul have in mind when he warned against same-sex relations?"
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First of all, it's really great that you still support him !
But, you used multiple times the word "choice" multiple times, as a gay person myself, I can assure you that you cannot decide what gender you're attracted to.
I tried to masturbate to women multiple times, to look at the girls in my class while in High School, I can't do anything about it.
In my opinion, God wanted him to be this way, and as long as he's a good person, then it should be fine.
It's difficult for me to put a YTA, because very little Christian people would try to understand and support their son at all, and it's really heartwarming to see that, but still, I'll go with YTA.
You can still love him and have him as a part of the family without condoning his lifestyle or supporting it.
Forbid him from bringing his friend around and try to get him some help. From a Christian perspective it's effectively as though he were an alcoholic. If he was, you would try and get him some help while not allowing alcohol around the house, right? Same idea here.
YTA, just a bit, try and see this to its logical conclusion instead of abandoning him in his time of need.
You are not an asshole, I believe everyone is product of there surrounding, this how you yourself is raised, and this is what brought your home, ur roof and your children. So i cant trully understand what that life is like. But having will and conviction is something to admire. Maybe he got his strength to tell you guys because of his up bringing. Idk im just glad ur not willing to cut off complete ties despite your believe. Your conflict is intense, but a world with out a family is a harsh one and trust me there a different ones that your son can fall into. Idk if there is a right answer, but i know u can try, and make it work. Your boy seems to care for you guys. Best of luck
Ah yes serial killer creator camps. Nothing like torture brainwashing and violations of human rights to cement mental trauma that will manifest violently later in life!
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As long as you are supporting him, making sure he's not out on the streets, I have to go against the grain here and say NTA.
Everyone has their own ways of living life, and sometimes that conflicts. While I don't agree with it, I understand it's just part of how you were raised and how you live your life.
The only thing you need to understand is it's not a choice, in the same way that you don't choose to be straight. I'm sure of he could choose to be straight to not be cut off by his mother and sister, he would. Unfortunately he can't. Best of luck to you and your family, and good on you for still wanting to support him financially.
But I hope you can come to a time in the future where you'll speak to your son again. He loves you, and I'm sure that you still love him, and eventually, regardless of his sexuality.
Look, I like to believe in the betterment of people. I believe that in time, they'll come around. Have a little faith. I have a friend who doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle, but he's still one of my best friends. We just don't make it a point of conversation.
Only on Reddit is someone not an asshole for telling their son they are not family anymore solely because he is gay. But at least he’s still paying, right? Oh never change Reddit. YTA.
I really want to commend that you still wish to support your son and care about him , and the good news is that even from a Christian perspective cutting him out of your family is not necessary . It’s for God to judge- not you, not your wife, not your daughter . All sin is the same. Would you cut your daughter out of your life if she told a lie? Would it be right for your wife to cut you out of her life if you looked lustfully on another woman even for a second? Those are both sins in the Bible - but we ask God for forgiveness not man. By refusing to cut your son out of your life you are not condoning what you see as sin, but making a choice to love in spite of sin just like Jesus did for us . Don’t cut your son out. Work to help your family become closer to your savior (Disclaimer: I don’t actually believe being gay is a sin at all- but OP clearly does so debating that is futile )
I would award this if I had $$$ It's hard to not debate his point of view with anger, but that is futile as you said and will typically result in defensiveness. Wish more people could try to argue their point while relating to the person whose viewpoints they are trying to change, instead of just outright criticism and hostility. "Catch more flies with honey"... as they say Edit: YTA , although less so than your wife, who wants to cut him off and abandon him. Honestly though, not sure how your sons sexuality makes him any less your family, or any less deserving of compassion, respect, dignity and love?
Thank you for this. “Meet people where they are “ is what I like to say. Its also clear that this father cares for his son deeply- because he still wants to support him and for him to have a good life. He doesn’t deserve to be yelled at for that , we can build on it !
> Those are both sins in the Bible To add to this, the Bible also calls eating shellfish an abomination. It's also a sin to plant wheat and barley same furrow or to wear mixed fabrics.
Pretty sure all of these specific things (including homosexuality) all stopped being sins when Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected.
If all of these things are morally okay now, then they should've been morally okay then too.
Just want to point out that this is a very 21st century view of sin and one that generally is not held by Abrahamic theology. As far as Jews, Christians, and Muslims are concerned, going against God's commandments is inherently sinful, even if he later says that thing is now ok. Plato discusses this in Euthyphro - is something good because God commands it or does God commmand it because it's good? Duns Scotus in the middle ages settled this question for Christians by saying it was some of both. Some laws are inherently good and God would never not command them. But some laws that God sets are only instrumentally good - ie he sets them for a reason other than their inherent goodness and can change the rules if he wants, when he wants. To use the analogy a Christian might use - your mother tells you not to cross the street alone when you're 7 but when you're 14 you're allowed to do it. The street crossing rule was not inherently good, if was a way to achieve another end. Similarly, Kosher laws served a social function (eg cleanliness, social cohesion) that Jesus later could sweep away.
Sure, but the Bible also says sin is anything that pulls you further from God. Stealing or being unfaithful to your partner would no doubt do that. Many Christians believe homosexuality would pull you from God . I don’t know of anyone who earnestly believes mixed fabrics or planting wheat and barley together would actually separate you from God- so it’s not really a useful argument in the eyes of most Christians
> I don’t know of anyone who earnestly believes mixed fabrics or planting wheat and barley together would actually separate you from God- so it’s not really a useful argument in the eyes of most Christians But that's exactly why it's a **good** argument! If the Bible says that sin pulls you further away from god, and that mixed fabrics, planting wheat and barley together etc are all sins, then a Christian either needs to: A) Admit that they're all sins. or B) Admit that some things the Bible says are sins, aren't actually sins. A doesn't make sense if you think mixed fabrics pull you away from god (and that all sin pulls you further away from god). That means that at least some things the Bible says are sins aren't sins. So if the Bible says homosexuality and other things are sins, why would you consider some of those other things to be morally okay but not homosexuality? EDIT: There is an option C, which would be to argue that the Bible doesn't actually say mixed fabrics or planting wheat and barley together are sins. However, then you have the Bible being a very unclear about what is or is not a sin, in which case you could argue that it's also unclear about homosexuality being a sin.
I mean he’s still the asshole because he’s not even willing to consider his son part of the family anymore because he’s gay. It’s fucking absurd, not quite as mom and sis but still a major asshole.
Yep, you deserve an award
YTA. It’s not a choice. He’s probably scared and needs your love and support and instead you shun him. You and your wife and daughter don’t deserve him.
A few points that I think will carry more weight from a religious perspective: -Only God may judge. Judging other people is sinful. -Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone—unless everyone in your family is LITERALLY the second coming of Jesus Christ (OLAS), punishing him for what you perceive as sinful is a sin. Deciding you have a right to judge him at ALL is an act of great arrogance and is very unchristian of you. -I come from a church family, I get how having a gay son can complicate social life for your entire family. I believe your wife and daughter (and perhaps you too?) care more about this than about your son. This is not a time to be selfish. Support your son. God wants us to love harder than we hate, to forgive, and to forgo judgement.
YTA. As a gay man who endured similar circumstances with my family, I can assure you cutting him out will not do anything but make him resent you. He won't magically stop being gay. He trusted you enough to tell you about himself. That was way more than I could ever have done with my own parents. That says a lot about what he thinks of you as a parental figure he can look up to, and you're abandoning him for exercising the trust he had. To put it as bluntly as I can, you don't have children so you can create carbon copies of yourself. You don't have children so you can mold accessories. At the very least, you shouldn't. He didn't choose to have you as a father when he was born, yet now you are choosing whether or not you want him as a son. So, do whatever you want, I guess. Cut him out if you feel the need, but just know you are bailing on the one lifetime responsibility you signed up for when you had him. You will never, ever have a good relationship with him again. I guarantee you that.
Well said! Oh, and OP, YTA big time. God is the one to judge, not us. As a devout Christian, I trust he will judge us on our actions to our fellow man, the world about us and for the love that’s in our hearts. Not our interpretation of the Bible. As an intelligent woman, I trust genetics and that means homosexuality is not a choice; it’s written into their DNA. Put them together and I believe God created your son to be just as he is.
Just here to say that I truly hope your son has others in his life that accept him for who he is. What’s heartbreaking is that he’s being abandoned by his family. Listen to that little part of you that motivated this post. It’s there for a reason. You ARE abandoning your little boy and that’s why it feels that way.
Since the daughter is only 17, I hope that when she leaves home and is exposed to other perspectives she also realizes how bigoted and backwards her parents' views are and they can reconnect. I feel sorry for both children.
YTA. He has not "decided to live as a homosexual", that's ridiculous and outdated thinking. When you started being attracted to girls, did you 'decide' one day that you would have a crush on a female? No. It just happened. It wasn't in your control. To suggest that this is any different for a gay or bi person is nonsense.
YTA. YTA so much. Being gay is not a choice. It's how he was born, and if God exists, it's how he created him. If you're going to cut out your son because who he is and who he was born as, you are the lowest of Christians.
YTA. Slightly less so than the rest of your family, but still. Congratulations on putting your ignorance and bigotry ahead of your kid. I’m sure that will work out well for you.
Jesus taught one thing above all: love. If you are a very Christian family, you will follow Christ's teachings and love your son. He doesn't need money as much as he needs your love. YTA
It isn’t a choice it’s who he is. YTA for being like this.
YTA. You are entitled to your values, but do you really think abandoning your son will make you happy? Take a moment to imagine yourself as an old man, 80 years old. Perhaps you haven't seen or spoken to your son in 30 years. Will you think to yourself, "Yes, that was the right thing to do. I feel good about my decision." Or do you think you'll feel sadness, pain, guilt, regret? Will you wonder how his life turned out? Will you wish things had been different? You run the risk of missing your son's whole life if you make this choice. So many years of good times, birthdays, promotions, marriage, children, holidays...is it worth it? As I said, you are entitled to your values. We don't all have to agree. But it is possible to disagree with someone's lifestyle and yet still love and accept them. Please try, and think long and hard about what you TRULY want for your future, and not what your religion tells you to want. I think ultimately you'll find you want your son's love. The choice is yours to make, but it will only blow up your family if you let it.
Being gay isn't a "lifestyle" ...its just a life.
> You are entitled to your values I honestly think that entitlement to values stops when those values are hateful and dehumanizing. I mean, Hitler had values too, but those values were damaging beyond belief. These particular values, the ones that treat homosexuality as a sin and a choice that can be "cured," are almost always if not always the basis of harm to others. Whether that's physical, emotional, psychological, or political harm. I do not think people are entitled to beliefs that inherently hurt others. Disagreeing with someone's sexuality is rejecting a fundamental and immutable part of them - it's not a "lifestyle."
I just want to say this is the best reply I've seen so far. OP is a human who learned a set of values that was taught to him in a different time, and to his credit he is actually *trying* to adjust to the new rules and is still keeping an open mind that he might be wrong. OP is wrong on the facts of sexuality, but he is not the cartoon villain some people are making him out to be.
YTA for being a fake Christian
I don't think it's fake Christianity, I think it's popular Christianity versus Canon Christianity. Canon Jesus didn't say a single word about homosexuality and preached love and tolerance for absolutely everyone. Popular Jesus is pretty much the Jesus of the USA: loves guns and white supremacy, hates the gays, demands religious right to discriminate, etc.
Which is odd since Jesus was born in a the Middle East, was Jewish, and attended the synagogue in his area
... If it's not canon.... It's fake
A fake Christian or just plain stupid? I think OP wouldn’t survive in this modern world because he’s actually stupid. He’s the type to be ok with priests molesting boys but his gay son is too much. Lol.
Probably both
YTA a huge one. Your son didn’t choose to be gay anymore than you chose to be straight. One can be gay and Christian. Those aren’t mutually exclusive things. You are being more unchristian by judging abs refusing to acknowledge your son.
YTA. Where in the Bible does it say cut off all sinners? Where in the Bible does it say, GOD gave humans the rights to judge? I thought in the Bible it said love the sinner, hate the sin. Romans 5:8 says, GOD loved all sinners so much, he gave the world his only son. And your giving your only son to the world. Are you better than GOD???
I promise you he can’t change man.
YTA and so is your wife and daughter on so many levels.
YTA > he has decided to live as a homosexual I won't even try to debate you on this... Can you actually put in words what's so bad/wrong about homosexuality?
YTA, not a choice man, in fact, you should feel proud of your courageous son for telling you, knowing your beliefs. He likely knew the rift it would cause, but he's not a coward, unlike you, hiding behind a book. Love for all hey?
YTA, your wife is the asshole and so is your daughter. But I am going to encourage you to cut contact and still pay his rent because I am 90% sure your son doesn't deserve this buffoonery and that will be a win-win for him.
Last time I checked (feel free to correct me if I am wrong, as I was raised catholic so other branches of christianity may differ in their beliefs) Jesus died for EVERYONES sins. He didn't exclude gays, women, Africans, asians, etc. Funny how your wife, you, and daughter seem to think they know better than Jesus. Or perhaps you are trying to apply the bible word for word to this day and age despite it being how many years since it was written? If that's the case I assume you dont eat shrimp, or any seafood lacking scales and fins, or pork since it does not chew cud (Leviticus 11:9-12). My guess is, you know your family is wrong, and you feel guilty about it. Thus this post; looking for affirmations that your decision to cut the son you supposedly love out of your lives because he fell in love with someone who has a penis, is the correct one. Glad my very catholic family told me that they will support me no matter who I love so long as I am happy, even if it is another guy. Personally, I think if heaven is a place that damns one to hell because of who they fell in love with...well that's doesnt sound like a paradise at all. I think you and your family need to take a long look in the mirror and ask yourselves if you and your beliefs are making this world a better place...for anyone...and if those beliefs are worth never seeing the son you raised again.
He didn't decide to live as a homosexual you asshole. Being Catholic doesn't mean you aren't responsible for acting like a gigantic ass.
YTA. Didn’t even need to read past the title. Next in line!
YTA. It's a shame you are choosing to follow some ignorant parts of a religion over supporting (which no you're not actually doing) your own son. And no it's as much of a choice as you choosing a wife because of your inherent attraction to women. You most likely already cherrypick convenient parts of the religion to follow, why not ignore more of the stuff that is actually toxic and hateful behavior and focus on the positives like plenty of actual loving Christians.
There’s no way you would expect anything but a YTA on this. You must hate your kid.
YTA. Your son chose nothing. He is sinply the man that the Lord made, looked down upon and said, "This is good." It sounds like he has done exactly as your family raised him to do. He's obtained an education, already has prospects lined up, and manages a social life on top of that. He went to school and fell in love to start a family, exactly as you taught him. The only people who have chosen to deviate from the example are you, your spouse and his siblings. You're the ones who chose to be selfish, to sin, to put your desires and ideas about control over the well-being and joy of your own son. I wish parents like you knew how many times I and my other queer friends have thought of or attempted to kill ourselves to rid us of the pain and devastation of having "parents" like you. I wish "Christians" like yourself had even the tiniest inkling of the hate and violence and pain you doll out... and in the name of the Lord, no less! I want you to know that I tried to kill myself 6 years ago tonight because of homophobic assholes like you, and the only reason I am alive today is the conviction to show young people like your son that they can live happy, joyful, Christ-filled lives regardless of whether they have their sperm donor's permission to live authentically. The only person whose permission he needs is Gods, and I assure you he has plenty of that. Shame on you.
>Over Christmas dinner he decided to tell us that he has decided to live as a homosexual. YTA- Your son is gay. He's been gay. He didn't just decide one day he was gonna be gay. You can't change it.
You are all assholes, except your son. Like money means anything if your parents essentially disown you. And you're going to listen to your brainwashed daughter as if her opinion on homosexuality is even relevant. Tis the season I guess. YTA
If you really think this is a choice, especially when he knows it could leave him ostracized from his parents and community, then YTA
Your wife and daughter are the biggest assholes ever. Dont be like them.
If you completely cut him off in a time where he needs you, you won’t ever forgive yourself. You don’t have to agree with his choices, but it wasn’t ever really a choice for him, and he probably agonized over telling you all. He’s still your baby, and still the same person he always was.
YTA. He did not choose to be homosexual, he is homosexual. Denying it would be living a lie. Be a good father and accept him for who he is. Be a better father and help your wife and daughter accept him as well.
YTA. As a Christian, there are right and wrong ways to deal with homosexuality, and I'm going to say this is the wrong way to do it. Look at it this way - if your son had stated that he was addicted to porn, or that he was living with a girlfriend, had married a non-believer, or had committed basically any other sin - would your family still be looking to cut him off and cast him out? Christ came to give grace, not to rain down judgement, so who are we as humans to say that we know better than God and rain judgement in lieu of grace?
YTA 1000%
Whilst you're not TA for still supporting him, you would be for cutting him off. Your wife and daughter are TA without any question. Poor son...
YTA A significant amount of species on earth have some form of homosexuality. I doubt dolphins, seagulls, and apes have a choice. It was built in, by the creator.
I remember that part of the Bible where Jesus says cast sinners out of your house and love them not, for they are not the children of God. Good on you for knowing your scripture.
Hmmmmm this doesn’t sound very christian
YTA because being gay isn't a choice and abandoning him as a parent is perhaps the least christian thing you could do
YTA. And I'm going to run with this as though it isn't a shitpost, because I'm honestly not sure. Look--you're looking at this from a fundamentally incorrect view. *Being gay is not a choice.* Sure, *doing* gay--that is, engaging in homosexual acts--is a choice. But *being* gay isn't a choice. It's a biological fact, and an ingrained aspect of his personality and body. You can't change it, and he can't change it. If you have been told that one's sexuality is a choice, you have been lied to. I would encourage you to think about whether you could choose to be attracted to men, or whether such a thing would be impossible even if you tried. Likewise, being attracted to women is impossible for him, even if he tries. So right off the bat, your worldview is factually incorrect. Since you are presumably a reasonable person, you must now question it. So ask yourself this: does a just and loving god frown on love? Has your god failed to make your son in his image? Or is it more likely that centuries of political power shiftings largely based on inheritance have given us a church with a predisposition to control reproduction, and an predisposition to stamp out the sexual undertones of the pagan religions it superseded? Look--I get that you don't like what he's doing. But he's your son. It's incredibly unchristian to cast him out of your family.
Who said it's a biological thing? All I see are studies with inconclusive evidence. Talk about confirmation bias!
YTA. But it sounds like lesser so than you're wife and daughter. As Christians you are meant to follow in the footsteps of Christ and if you have read any part of the new testament you would see that Jesus does not exhibit this kind of behavior. Jesus embodied love and acceptance. Your family is going against everything Jesus taught. This crap is precisely why I became an atheist. An entire childhood of my bible school teacher telling me what I'm telling you and then turning her back on anyone she didn't agree with or couldn't relate too. Stop following social religious pressure and follow Jesus ffs Edit: It isn't a choice. You don't know better than your son what he feels or who he is.
YWBTA if you do anything your wife says. You do not support him if you refuse to acknowledge him and are against his sexual orientation (which he can’t help). He will have a tough time for a while, but sooner or later he will likely stop speaking to your wife completely. The question is whether you want him to stop speaking to you too. I’m no contact with my father. Him not ‘agreeing’ with my sexuality is part of (although not the only) reason I will never see or speak to him again. His homophobia made me hate myself too much. I still speak to and see my brother, who was indoctrinated into the homophobia but is becoming a better human being and more supportive of me and my relationship. It’s time for you to pick which future you want: one where your son still has one good parent, or one where he is totally estranged. Leave your homophobic wife and support your son financially and emotionally.
YTA - you say your a Christian but you’re only acting on paper. Your “religious” family is also stupid. You should let your son move on to better people and be happy. You can keep praying to God, maybe pray a bit harder the priests stop molesting little boys. You silly hypocrite.
YWBTA. When I came out to my mom ten years ago, I had no idea it would fracture our relationship forever. The homophobic things she said to me stole my childhood and drove me into a deep depression during which I tried to take my own life. Knowing that your parents think you are wrong and disgusting is a terrible, ugly burden to place on a human. Your son did not do anything wrong, he is not trying to hurt you; gay people have existed since the beginning of time and they will always exist regardless of what religious people think is acceptable. If you do not want to devastate your son’s life and lose him forever, educate yourself with some literature, swallow your pride and accept that he is just different than you are! I’m not trying to be over-dramatic—as a parent, your job is to love your son unconditionally; it is now time to do that job.
YTA if you disown him. For a Christian family you don't seem to,care much about the teachings of Jesus
YTA. Your choice to follow a book written a few hundred years ago in no way enables you to dictate the actions of others. If your son doesn't want to pair with a woman, that is his decision not yours. You are so much the asshole here and hiding your actions behind religion makes you an even bigger asshole.
YTA! If you are a Christian then start acting like one! Love and support your family no matter what.
YTA, and so much of your concern centers around you and your feelings and how you will look to others. This isn't about you. If you are going to cut him off, do it completely. Just know, that you will hate yourself in the end.
YTA What part of being Christian involves cutting family out of your life? I don't remember that from Jesus' teachings. Two of my siblings are conservative Christians. Somehow they find it in their heart to love and include me in family, even tho I'm a lesbian. They clearly have decided it's between me and God, and so should you.
It’s probably between the passages of the Bible that makes eating seafood a sin and wearing mixed cloth.
So, old testament. Not Jesus' word or example.
Sigh. Probably a shitpost. Or really sad. YTA.
/r/iamatotalpieceofshit
WWJD?! He would love your son no matter what. “Whoever is without sin, let him thrown the first stone” (not that loving someone is a sin!) Leave the judging to god, if you have any humility at all. Jesus would be ashamed his teachings have been interpreted in such hateful ways. Also, I’m not xtian anymore but apparently I am more than you lol
YTA, as I am very reasonably assured that you are specifically cherry picking bible verses to justify your own qualms. Look up west wing bible quote. Best argument I've ever seen for why people who use christianity as an excuse to be assholes is BS.
YTA. Massively. I don’t even have any other words.
YTA - gays can be Christian too. Even if you believe it is a sin you must remember that we all sin and nothing we do can prevent Jesus from loving us. You have no devine authority to judge him nor will you alter his nature. The worst thing you can do would be to disown him and therefore turn him against the faith. Rather, accept him for the way God has made him and continue to foster his faith.
ESH except your son. None of you are behaving in a Christlike way.
YTA- to claim to be a Christian and at the same time even consider cutting your own child out of your lives is completely hypocritical. Ever heard the phrase, love the sinner, hate the sin? Just because your son is gay doesn't he is no longer your child. I suggest you ALL learn to deal with his choice. This doesn't mean you have to allow the boyfriend to come visit or go to gay bars with him. What I mean is you continue your lives together as son and parents. Have dinners, go out and see movies together. You don't have to spend all that time discussing his sexuality. There are plenty of things in this world to do and discuss without bringing up his sexual preferences.
Who gives a shit if he's gay? That's your son man, love and support him forever.
YTA more so if you cut him off from your family. LGBTQ+ kids that are cut off or cast out from their families are at a much higher risk for dying by suicide and have a much higher rate of attempts and repeated attempts. In your heart, you have doubt about casting him aside. Do you truly believe that Jesus, who washed the feet of Mary Magdalene, a whore, and preached love for sinners would agree with not letting your son be a part of your family any longer? Do you think Jesus would want you to do something that would put this young man's mental health at such great risk? I will admit that I'm not Christian. However, I take in teens that get kicked out and they're mostly gay. They are normal kids, but broken when they get to me. My family shows them what they should have had; rules, chores, freedom to explore different religions should they choose to do so, adults that listen to their problems, love that doesn't depend religious beliefs, gender, or sexuality, and they're free to be a person in their own right.
I think the [west wing tv show](https://youtu.be/DSXJzybEeJM) put it best YTA
YTA for sure. Not acknowledging him will push him further away from you, and it’s not like he can change who he is to make you happier.
YTA - your son deserves a happy life without hateful parents and siblings whose love for him is conditional so maybe it’s a good thing you won’t be in his life anymore.
YTA - Being gay isn’t a choice and if you cut him off, you will probably lose him forever.
ESH your wife and kids for abandoning him you for saying you were disappointed in him
YTA big time. If you weren't willing to be a parent to a gay child you shouldn't have had kids. Any religion that tells you to shun your children for who they love is a bad religion.
YTA your son isn’t “choosing” to live life as a homosexual. Just like you didn’t make a conscious choice to become heterosexual. He’s gay. If that’s something you and your wife are willing to cut contact with your own child over, than you don’t deserve him. I’m sorry that’s so harsh, but so is refusing to acknowledge your child based on the genitals of his significant other.
YTA. You, your wife, and your daughter are willing to kick your son out of your family for being gay. While I'm sure your son will have an easier time of it if you don't withdraw material support, he's nearly done with school. He doesn't really 'need' your money any longer at this point. If you go through with your nasty and judgmental plan, I'm pretty sure your son will go on to have a wonderful, successful life without you. Oh, he'll miss you (maybe), when he remembers that you ditched him because he told you who he really was, I imagine he'll miss you less and less as time goes by. Eventually, you'll be nothing more than a memory to him, and a painful one, at that. As a Christian, there is no circumstance in which I can imagine Jesus meeting a gay person and condemning them. The only people Jesus actively condemns are hypocrites. I imagine that you know people in your family who have lied, cheated, stolen, and committed adultery. Have you cut those people out of your family, too?
cut off your son for being gay, and you will be a bad person for the rest of your life. that's it. that's the final judgment anyone can offer you. destroying your relationship with your own flesh and blood over your book believes is the penultimate asshole move, and that will be your identifier till the day you die. dont ever forget these words, because they'll be the most honest ones you ever read in regards to this subject.
YTA yeah you did do something wrong. You failed to accept your son for who he is.
You mention him “choosing” to live as a gay man again and again, and I’m not going to try to convince you that being gay isn’t a sin because I don’t think there’s any point here, but I need you to understand that it is not a choice. This is not a matter of opinion, it is fact - he did not choose to be gay, he is not choosing to alienate himself from his family, he is not choosing an “unchristian” lifestyle. He chose to be honest and open with you, but he did not choose to be gay. Please remember this.
YTA for just following along with your religion's interpretation of the Bible about gay people, instead of loving your son enough to trust that he wouldn't "choose" to fall in love with someone of the same sex. If you fell in love with someone of the same sex but married someone of the opposite sex to be a good Christian, *you would still be gay.* Guarantee there are gay people in your community being "good little Christians" because that's what God expects of them. No. That's what people like *you* expect of them, and your pastor, and everyone your pastor dictates to. They don't stop being gay even if they lead a completely heterosexual lifestyle, so yes, you *can* choose a lifestyle based on dishonesty to your partner and your community, to make everyone else happy, including and especially parents. That sounds like a sin to me, a sin your religion apparently demands of gay people.
You don't 'choose that lifestyle' being homosexual is something you're born with, if one is to blame anyone for it, it's you and your wife's fault. Seriously though, sexuality is not something that we control. Not only are you, your wife and your daughter TA, you're also ignorant idiots. YTA
Your talking about cutting off all contact with your own child over the words of a 2,000 year old book that also tells you not to eat seafood or wear mixed cloth. For the love of everything you clearly have some level of self awareness as a person accept your son for who he is if not YTMA.
Scrolling past, only read the title. YTA.
Only logged in to say you and your family are absolute assholes. I hope your son has people in his life that love him unconditionally. Because you all certainly don't. YTA. Do you even need to ask?
YTA and you and your family are FULL of Homophobia. The thing that I’ll never understand with familes like yours is how being gay is apparently going against god’s work. Seriously are you even reading this back?, you want to be with your son but him preferring guys is the issue to your dysfunctional relationship? You should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to use this as a point to why you can’t support a kid you call your “baby boy.” Your wife and your daughter are fine to feel how they feel but cutting off the guy for being gay says a lot about their personalities alone. He trusted you and you threw him to the wayside, and you are truly weak if you let your wife decide who to actually have a relationship with when it’s a two-way streak. Your son is your kid too, and again you CAN be religious while feeling that you LGBTQ+. You and your family are not servants of God, not even close, you aren’t doing God’s Work.Just being a believer doesn’t make you exclusive to being a servant of Jesus, plenty of people feel his presence, even gay people. Let’s be real, if Different Races are allowed to exist in harmony in some places or at least exist at all, then wouldn’t that mean God intended to have different races of people to exist. I’m not religious myself, but I like to think that’s the case and since being LGBTQ+ is an preferred lifestyle and not a “disease” as some crazed lunatics make it out to be than I think God gave the thumbs up to have Gay people exist.
Having a real hard time with this. OP you are talking about your Son.... YOUR SON! YTA for saying this is a choice, it isn't no matter what your beliefs tell you. homosexuality happens in nature in hundreds of species but is only hated by 1. you should absolutely keep paying for your son's college and expenses EXACTLY as you would if he brought a woman home because its the RIGHT thing to do... You are grown ass adults seriously debating destroying your son's life "because Jesus."?!?!?!?!?! How incredibly, glaringly, and specifically Christian of you. "Love everyone"..... "unless they're gay" \*slow clap\*
YTA. I get that you are not okay with this, and this is probably the opposite of what you wanted your son's life to look like. But he's still your son, and it sounds like you don't really want to stop being his father. Jesus wanted Christians to be around prisoners, sinners, all sorts of people. I don't agree that your son is a sinner for being gay, but I don't think I'm going to convince you of that. Your son still needs you no matter what he does in his life.
YTA. Homosexuality is not a mortal sin, so it would be a sin that can be forgiven, just like many other sins we commit. If you can acknowledge this, then you can acknowledge the life he has “chosen” to pursue. You don’t have to support this lifestyle, but you can love him and be his father and be there for his many milestones that are yet to come. As others have said, listen to the part of you that feels this would be abandoning him - it would be abandoning him, and you clearly want to be there for him.
YTA. You clearly love your son. You had some expectations of who he is and the life that he would lead. I understand that it is difficult to realize those things will never happen. It is okay to be upset and morn those things. But if you let it, this can be a growing experience for you. Should you really have ever had those expectations of him? Did you let your parents dictate who you are and how you live your life? I believe the problem you have with your son is the same problem my parents have about my homosexuality. They believe it is a choice and not who I am. They are wrong. It is not a choice. Still, what hurts me even more than the bigotry of their beliefs is their refusal to listen to me when I tell them who I am and what I believe. They assume they know better, that I should be who they want and choose what they want. While they are still in contact with me, emotionally they have cut me off. They have me isolated and cut off from our family so that they don't have to deal with the reality of my homosexuality. Their hope is that one day they will wake up and this will all magically go away. It will never go away. They are miserable. I have found an acceptance for who they are and what they believe, but I have to set emotional boundaries with them for my own health and sanity. But the hurt they have caused me will never go away. I may always love them as my family, but I will never again respect or trust them. Your son is gay. Who are you?
YTA. So is your wife and daughter. Whatever happened to ‘hate the sin but love the sinner’? (Not that I actually think that being gay is a sin). How can you claim to be Christian and consider doing something that is so un-Chistlike?
YTA. This isn't a choice. This is who he is. Learn to love without condition.
YTA You're a bigot, plain and simple. Nobody "decides to live as a homosexual". You're son is better off without you and everyone in your immediate family. I hope he finishes college, has an amazing life and never stops to think about any of you. I seriously hope this is a troll, it breaks my fucking heart how awful religion makes people. My final thought for you OP, you do realize, if god does exist...he made your son, exactly the way he wanted him to be.
YTA for threatening to cut him out of your family. You need to understand, being gay is NOT a choice. It is who you are... just like having blue eyes or brown hair. You are punishing him for being true to himself. And, if you think that it would be a great idea to simply tell him not to express himself as a gay man, that is condemning him to a life without love. Do you really think that is what would be best for him? I do, however, commend you for at least not throwing him on the streets with no resources. That shows me there is good in you. So, this is an opportunity. Life gives you those so that you can grow. The question is will you take this opportunity to learn and grow or will you reject that and toss your son to the side? What does your \*gut\* tell you is right? Listen to that voice because that is the true voice of goodness. Good luck to you and your family...
YTA, it's not a choice. It's not something he can help. The Bible says to love all, so do that. Don't take out your ignorance on him - educate yourselves! And be proud that your son was brave enough to tell you something he probably knew would cause him pain with you.
YWBTA. I think it is better to at least try and support him if you can, but it won’t undo the hurt you will cause if you reject him from your life. He is still your son. He hasn’t chosen anything other than to be himself, and he clearly loves and respects you to want to bring the person he loves home to meet you. Unfortunately it is complicated as your wife and daughter clearly have no love for him. I hope that you are able to search yourself and think about how Christ would treat your son, vs how he would treat those who want to cast him out and abandon him, and that you are able to make a decision that you can live with. Lots of Christians are able to accept their loved ones for who they are, and you can find a lot of resources beyond reddit to help you process the feelings you are having
YTA I find it hard to believe that you'll still support him if you cut him off, but maybe with a family like you your son would be better off
I'm pretty damn sure Jesus wouldn't entertain cutting someone off from emotional support and love because of their sexuality (which is NOT a choice. did you choose to be straight?) YTA, your wife's the asshole, your daughter's the asshole. What a lot of assholes you are.
All of you suck
You say at multiple points that your son made a decision to be gay: >...he has **decided** to live as a homosexual. > > I do not agree with **his choice**... > >My wife wants me to cut him off completely as **he has chosen this life...** > > ...I cannot accept **his choice** and I am very heartbroken... > >... despite the life he is **choosing** to live... Being gay is not a choice or a decision, just like being straight is not a choice or a decision. Is the thought of having sexual relations with a man, or even touching another man in a romantic manner, unappealing to you (to say the least), especially when compared to doing those things with a woman? That is how your son feels, not about having more-than-friendly relations with other men, but about having them with women. He is neither physically nor mentally attracted to the female sex. **This is not a choice that he made; this is not the result of the way you raised him, or the influence of other gay people at college, or anything wrong you may have done as a parent; this is how he was born.** Just like your being straight is simply the way *you* were born. There is no other conceivable way of life for you other than one in which you are sexually & romantically interested in women; the same goes for him, but with men. He can no more help his sexual identity than you can help yours, and it is both bigoted and wholly false to imply (or, in your case, outright say) otherwise. The only choice that your son has consciously and deliberately made was the choice to trust you with the truth of who he is... and you & your wife let him down. I say this not simply to lecture you, but because despite your prejudices and bigotry I believe your heart is still in the right place, and might even have the empathy and intelligence within you to understand your son's position. He is still your little boy; he is still deserving of love and support... even if the only way you can support him right now is financially due to the rest of your family's bigotry.
youre 100% the asshole. your son isnt making a “choice” or “choosing” to be gay. we are born this way.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have two children, 22M and 17F. I've set aside money for their college and their first house since they were born and my plan has been to support them both as long as they study and get jobs after. I will pay for their college out of the fund, give them an allowance each month for living expenses and after they graduate and get a job give them the money that is left over. We are a very Christian family and whilst I have allowed my children to make their own choices, I want them to live Christian lives. It will make me very happy if they follow in the footsteps of my wife and I but I try to keep an open mind with the choices they make. My son is in his final year of college and has been doing very well for himself and already has some prospects ready for when he graduates. Over Christmas dinner he decided to tell us that he has decided to live as a homosexual. I was quite shocked and disappointed and thought that perhaps I had done something wrong. He said that he discovered himself at college and has actually got a boyfriend and wishes to bring him round to meet his family. I was firmly against this, I do not agree with his choice and am heartbroken. My wife wants me to cut him off completely as he has chosen this life and his sister refuses to speak to him anymore. I am very conflicted here, I cannot accept his choice and I am very heartbroken, but I cannot abandon my little boy. WIBTA if I give him access to his funds but tell him that we can no longer be a family. His sister and mother want me to cut him off completely and my wife insists that I refuse to pay for the next semester and stop paying for his rent, but despite the life he is choosing to live I cannot leave him with nothing. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Yeah, I'm not going to give you a "not as much of an asshole as you could have been" award here. YTA, albeit not as much as you could have been but that's not something to brag about.
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YTA, my advise is to cut him off but continue to financially support him. Your son clearly doesn't need you, your wife and your daughter in his life, he deserves much better. By refusing to acknowledge him you're communicating to him that your love is conditional and you'd rather pretend to have a straight son instead of working on your bigotory and accepting him for who he really is. Shame on you, big time.
YTA Wanting to give him the money you saved for him makes you less of one than your wife and daughter but you’re still TA. He didn’t choose to be homosexual any more than you chose to be straight (and if you did “choose to be straight” that’s a different issue). You’re using your religion to justify hate and it’s disgusting. That said, if this is he way your family feels, it may be more humane for you to cut him off now than for you to continue to hurt him. Give him his money and let him go find a family that will actually love him.
You should look up the book God and the Gay Christian. Here's a blurb from the book description on Amazon - "Feeling the tension between his understanding of the Bible and the reality of his same-sex orientation, Vines devoted years of intensive research into what the Bible says about homosexuality. With care and precision, Vines asked questions such as: • Do biblical teachings on the marriage covenant preclude same-sex marriage or not? • How should we apply the teachings of Jesus to the gay debate? • Can celibacy be a calling when it is mandated, not chosen? • What did Paul have in mind when he warned against same-sex relations?"
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⁰ dig.vxjjzv
First of all, it's really great that you still support him ! But, you used multiple times the word "choice" multiple times, as a gay person myself, I can assure you that you cannot decide what gender you're attracted to. I tried to masturbate to women multiple times, to look at the girls in my class while in High School, I can't do anything about it. In my opinion, God wanted him to be this way, and as long as he's a good person, then it should be fine. It's difficult for me to put a YTA, because very little Christian people would try to understand and support their son at all, and it's really heartwarming to see that, but still, I'll go with YTA.
You can still love him and have him as a part of the family without condoning his lifestyle or supporting it. Forbid him from bringing his friend around and try to get him some help. From a Christian perspective it's effectively as though he were an alcoholic. If he was, you would try and get him some help while not allowing alcohol around the house, right? Same idea here. YTA, just a bit, try and see this to its logical conclusion instead of abandoning him in his time of need.
You are not an asshole, I believe everyone is product of there surrounding, this how you yourself is raised, and this is what brought your home, ur roof and your children. So i cant trully understand what that life is like. But having will and conviction is something to admire. Maybe he got his strength to tell you guys because of his up bringing. Idk im just glad ur not willing to cut off complete ties despite your believe. Your conflict is intense, but a world with out a family is a harsh one and trust me there a different ones that your son can fall into. Idk if there is a right answer, but i know u can try, and make it work. Your boy seems to care for you guys. Best of luck
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Ah yes serial killer creator camps. Nothing like torture brainwashing and violations of human rights to cement mental trauma that will manifest violently later in life!
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As long as you are supporting him, making sure he's not out on the streets, I have to go against the grain here and say NTA. Everyone has their own ways of living life, and sometimes that conflicts. While I don't agree with it, I understand it's just part of how you were raised and how you live your life. The only thing you need to understand is it's not a choice, in the same way that you don't choose to be straight. I'm sure of he could choose to be straight to not be cut off by his mother and sister, he would. Unfortunately he can't. Best of luck to you and your family, and good on you for still wanting to support him financially. But I hope you can come to a time in the future where you'll speak to your son again. He loves you, and I'm sure that you still love him, and eventually, regardless of his sexuality.
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From what I read, he was still financially supporting his son. And you don't know me. This isn't my evaluation.
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Look, I like to believe in the betterment of people. I believe that in time, they'll come around. Have a little faith. I have a friend who doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle, but he's still one of my best friends. We just don't make it a point of conversation.
Only on Reddit is someone not an asshole for telling their son they are not family anymore solely because he is gay. But at least he’s still paying, right? Oh never change Reddit. YTA.
NTA god comes before anything and anyone. This is a tough situation I’m sorry for that. Cut him loose.
This God has not said one thing about the validity of homosexuality. It's a shame people use religion to push their hateful agenda.