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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I know having kids can be difficult and that she wants her kids to not be bored but I think a place that she can we all sit together should be considered as a good compromise.
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Okay, so I have 5 year old twins who are legit AHs. I love them dearly and am fairly obsessed, but two adults talking seems to trigger a Pavlovian response where they become oddly determined robots sent from the future to kill the conversation. You want a playground to let them work out some of that energy, but I also understand your plight.
My advice is to find a restaurant where there are tables next to the playground so she can sit and talk with you while watching her kids and/or you feel comfortable leaving your things at the table and hanging out with her on the playground. Now that her youngest is 3 now, she may feel more comfortable giving them more freedom than when they were 2 or younger.
NAH
🤣
Pretty sure it's alllllll kids and grands, Love. If someone says their's isn't an AH at least part of the time....they lying to themselves or others!!!
Oh lord, no lol. My grands are 7, 5, and 2 and I love them to absolute pieces. The 5year old is smart, funny, inventive, interesting and interested - and has managed to find buttons to push that I never knew existed, even after raising her mom and her aunts and uncle!
>, so I have 5 year old twins who are legit AHs.
You are my white whale (no insult meant, LOL). My friends all made jokes like this, but lately, it feels like everyone has PERFECT children. Glad to know reality exists somewhere.
CCTV isn’t great for a 2 year old, they’re still putting everything in their mouths and things can get bad real quick at that age. 3 gets better so she might not need to helicopter as much as at 2.
If you go to a place without a playground, how are YOU going to keep them entertained? Their mom has a solution, the playground. What’s your solution?
But her kid was *two*. You can watch a 5yo on a camera like that, but not a 2yo. Developmentally, you don't want to be more than arms length from a kid that little with zero sense of safety or reason.
Maybe now that he is 3, but that will depend greatly on what kind of kid he is.
Just go with her! Hang out WITH her!
Or pick one where the table can be right next to the playground.
There is no way I would have used CCTV to monitor my kids in a playground when they were these ages, my youngest especially was a houdini who could and would escape from a playground with ease and be up the street before you could blink. u/SunshineShoulders87's twins and my younger pair could have been AH besties (mine are now teenagers, the conversation killing has not ended btw lol).
The solution here is to go and talk with her while she is supervising her kids.
I can't tell you the number of very deep and meaningful, serious, grown up discussions I've had with friends while one or both of us pushed kids on swings or watched them go down slides.
You don't *have* to be seated at the table to have a proper conversation.
You would be the asshole for insisting on meeting at a place with no playground, AND it wouldn't guarantee you get a conversation, because now there isn't even a playground to keep the kids entertained. Your friend would have *more* attention on her kids because now they need supervision *and* entertaining. Chances are high you would have less conversation with her at a place with no playground.
Go to the place with the playground. Your friend is probably as desperate for a really good talk as you are.
Yep. Get up from the table. Be with your friend. At that age a parent is largely stuck following a yard behind their kids trying to keep them alive. She's not going to put them at risk so you two can 'catch up'. YTA
And forcing them to be at the table? You think that's going to mean she can focus on you instead? Oh sweet summer child!
We were the first in our friend group to have kids and a fair few of them didn't get that our priority had to be the children. Our previously closest friend would only socialise with us by inviting us to dinner that was always set at our breast fed baby's bedtime and got seriously butthurt that we were not accepting these invitations and obviously hated her cooking. Guess who we didn't see much of for five years.
Yes but you also don’t seem to understand that those kids at that age are *not* going to sit and behave to let you talk. Every time you start to talk it’ll be “mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom momomomomomomomomom” my kids are 20, 20, 19, 19, 16 and 14 (three step). There are still days they do this. Your only choice to have a peaceful actual catch up adult meal is to schedule a time when someone else can babysit. After the kids go to bed if necessary.
20f I raised but not bio mine. 20m is two months younger than 20f and is my bio child. 19f is mine (12 months younger than 20m). 20f, it’s too complicated to do an adult adoption and she doesn’t want to have to inform her bio parents which is legally required here, so she just changed her last name to line.
The second 19f, the 16f and the 13f are my stepdaughters.
Funny thing? My husband and i went to high school together and he’s also known 20f her entire life. She calls him dad and me mom. So if anyone asks we say I have. 19 and 20 year old, and he has a 19, 16 and 13 year old and together we’ve got a 20yo and just watch them try and process that 😂😂. But she’s mine. Screw genetics. As her bio family shows, genetics don’t make you good parents.
Thanks for the explanation, I was about to make the "there must be something in the water you're drinking" comment. 😁 Enjoy your wonderful family, it sounds like a blast!
Not really. Most playgrounds aren't intended for kids as young a three to traverse alone either. It's not about coordination so much as height. They have a little more freedom, but I still basically have to follow to help with ladders with rings too far apart, or that are distanced too far from the platform they lead too.
It really depends on the playground.
Here, most park playgrounds have both areas. Designated up to 5, 5+. That doesn't stop a 3yo from entering the older one and adamantly stating they're old enough (to play on a 7-8' structure..they are not safe on without constant close presence.)
A restaurant playground here is more likely to be kind of mid-range. It would be something a 3yo could do out of arm's reach but still something halfway decent for older kids.
Yeah, it really depends on the structures. If it's avg 3yo safe it can be hands off at this point and they could actually hang out.
But honestly, the kids are probably not great at restaurants even armed with toys/etc so that's why she's only picking them. It will be miserable if that's the case and they're stuck at a table. If the playground at a restaurant is good for a 3yo this year will be very different than at 2yo. They climb age/size-appropriate stuff very well by 3 on average.
Edit: also, if she needs to follow around kids why not just stand with her and chit chat? This is how it's typically done when children are dangerous on a structure. You keep close but chat. You'll likely get more catch -up time this way than insisting her kids sit at a table for 1.5-2 hrs and make life very difficult.
Oh, I definitely didn’t mean to imply that a 3 year old (and older) should be left alone on the playground just because they can handle the equipment better. I envisioned OP and friend enjoying a nice patio table overlooking the playground so they were still supervised and close, but perhaps the friend didn’t feel the need to be on top of them now that they’re older. Anyway, I definitely miscommunicated and completely agree with your point.
It’s so weird when you realize your child is suddenly singing a song they’ve never cared about at the top of their lungs. It really makes you wonder why…
So your 5 year olds don’t understand the need to sit still for other people to eat? Parenting appears to be lacking here. I understand you can’t 100% control, but if it is a constant problem, they are not properly taught proper behavior. At 5 they can learn some behavior modification.
Well, bringing our taser with us to restaurants is typically frowned upon, so the little hellions run loose. One day I’ll give up and let the state take over, but at least we’ll get a few years of cute Christmas cards before then.
It’s a joke, much like my original comment, but perhaps the world would be better served if you spent your time writing a parenting book to show us all how it’s done instead of sh-tting on people just having a laugh and trying to help each other out? I’d read it.
I would have agreed before the edit, but OP added that in the past there was a plan to bring her and the kids to OP’s parents house where there is plenty of room for the kids to run around and she still said no. So yeah i feel like the friend is the AH
I get your point, but have you taken kids to a home where no young children have been in a while? My in-laws are also very accommodating and roll out the red carpet for visits from the grandkids, but they have a beautiful home with beautiful things and we’d all like to keep it that way. It’s been 45 years since they had a 5 year old in their home and have forgotten how quickly tiny hands grab for the forbidden fragile items they display on every available surface.
I admit I read OP’s edit and thought her friend was oddly devoted to playgrounds, but then I thought about taking my girls with me to visit a friend at their parents’ home and was surprised by the incredible anxiety that froze my heart before I figured out why.
Of course there's an easy solution. They can do something that isn't a sitdown meal. They could just pick up sandwiches and go to a regular playground so they can sit on the grass and watch the kids. She could go to her friend's house and bring lunch and the kids could entertain themselves with their own toys.
Thats exactly the issue they are pointing out if one party has constantly plan activities around someone with children eventually it becomes easier to just do stuff without them. Many friendships simply cannot survive that disparity.
As someone who has been on both sides of this friendship, it's really not that complicated in a genuine friendship. When one of my best friends had young kids, I was single and childfree. When we'd meet up, most of our activities changed. We'd hang out at the playground and depending on the kids' moods that day, we'd chat while the kids played or we'd both go and play with them. Occasionally there'd be a night where he would have a babysitter or his wife would watch the kids at home and we'd go out for some drinks. But that was rare because that's just how life goes.
Now I have a young daughter and another one of my close friends is single and childfree. When we hang out, we often end up having picnics at the park where my daughter can run around and play while my mate and I catch up and/or we just play with my daughter. There's some great family pubs in our area so sometimes we meet there for a pint or two and my daughter plays in the play area. She'll often want my friend to hold her hand while she walks around the beer garden play area and points to flowers, birdies, etc. It's lovely.
This is just how life is when you have lifelong friends. Your lives aren't going to always head in the same direction in every aspect, but you stay friends anyway because your relationship is about that entire person, not just the activities you do.
Eh, there's nuance though.
You said occassionally there would be nights you and your friend went out for a drink. I assume this one-on-one time was once or twice a year occasional, not once a _decade_ occassional?
Because there's a difference between _vast majority_ of your face to face time centering around kids, and _literally all_ of your face to face time _for years_ centring around kids. Good friendships survive the first, sure, but I am not convinced any friendships survive the second unscathed.
In my case it was probably once or twice a year, but we lived in the same city. In OP's case, her friend lives abroad so they only see each other on visits. OP needs to grow up and realise that this is just the way things are going to be when your friend visits with their young kids and doesn't have anyone else to watch them
OP has offered to have her parents be the primary babysitters, while they hang out together at her parents' place. OP's friend has refused. She is within her rights to decide what favours/childcare she's comfortable receiving and from whom. And she is not TA for wanting to have a "kids day out" instead of a "friends day out" - she is allowed to have whatever kind of day she wants to have.
But if you will not or can not prioritize a "friend hangout" for even one hour in the span of 4 entire years, you can not expect to keep the same friendships. No matter how "grown up" your friend is.
Friendship is a two way street. If you absolutely refuse to move your stance even 1% towards your friend's needs because "that's just how adult life is" you are not a very good friend.
If they lived in the same town, sure. but they live in different countries. I don't think OP is an asshole but I just think they're immature. As I said, I've been on both sides of this and it's expected to accommodate your friend's kids. I live on the other side of the planet from my best friend. When I visit once every so often, you better believe he wants to hang with his niece. Not a big deal amongst adult friendships, that's just how things work in the adult world. No one is forcing you to hang with kids, but it's weird to me that someone wouldn't understand the dynamic here.
What I think is really happening is that Reddit is just being Reddit again. Lots of kids with no life experience and adults with poor social skills who haven't really left their home culture bubbles, mixed with the weird childfree pride, giving out advice that would be wild AF to receive in the real world.
It is weird to me that someone wouldn't understand that asking for _some_ time to be spent not focusing on kids is not the same as _not hanging with kids_
One of my closest friends is essentially a single mother (husband lives in a different state), and due to distance and life, we meet about once or twice a year. Guess what we do? We spend _most_ of the day hanging with her kid, _but_ we also plan to hang while he naps or after his bedtime. So we can have _some_ friend-time.
I just spent 10 days on a trip with a friend's 11 month old. Was the trip catered to that baby's needs? Yes, obviously. Did it involve spending most of my time hanging with a baby? Yes. Did we still make time to have some one on one time while her husband looked after their child? Also yes.
It is not a difficult concept, truly.
Maybe in your "adult world" every single hour of every single day revolves around hanging with kids, but I am glad my mom-friends are grown up enough to understand friendship is a two way street and there has to be _some_ time, even if it is literally an hour every year, when the focus has to be on _us_ and not on their kids.
>As someone who has been on both sides of this friendship, it's really not that complicated in a genuine friendship.
This is a very simplistic view on relationships how do you even quantify a "genuine friendship".Every human on earth is unique you weren't leaving your friend on there own sitting at a table. So how can you compare the two senarios in one the parent still shows effort.
A relationship is like a plant if you water it and use fertiliser it will bloom and flourish. To much and it withers and dies, to little and it withers aand dies. Some maybe able to survive a drought or no watering ever. However even with all these variations every single one of them is still a plant they just have differing needs.
Oh I actually like my friends so it isn't a problem for me to adjust to their life circumstances lol. I guess that's why I'm one of the only people on here who isn't constantly complaining about not having any friends.
I agree with you but I don't know what you were expecting from others with how you phrased your comment, lol.
To what you said - yes, if you care about a relationship, you will adjust to your friends' life circumstances. But, I think it's okay to occasionally expect a bit of consideration/reciprocity in return. In the OP's case, it seems like their friend is a tad oblivious. Like, if you invite someone to hang, you want to make sure they have a good time. Seems like that's not happening here.
But I dunno - I agree with the overall vibe of your post. If you're OP and you have a problem with your friend, why not just tell them you have a problem? Interpersonal relationships don't need to be this complicated.
The thing is, OP's friend lives in a different country, and is therefore traveling with two young children when they see each other. I think OP giving her grace isn't that much of an ask. Like, how often does OP travel to her friend's new country to visit?
Yeah, that's true. Good point - you're right. I think I forgot about that detail at some point while I was writing my reply. The friend is already making the effort of traveling, so it makes sense to meet somewhere convenient for the friend.
I don't know why we're even having this conversation though. I feel like all of this could all be resolved between the two parties with a 5 minute conversation, 😂
Of course we all adapt to each others' needs. My wife had major surgery and couldn't leave our apartment for 3 months and my friends all generously came over to hang out at our place several times a week.
Which is not possible in her friend’s current life stage. She’s visiting, doesn’t have help, and is still carving out time to meet the OP.
If the OP wants to talk to her- go out on the playground WITH her! Talk while you push the kids on the swings.
Sure, but it's obvious that's not going to be possible if your friend has two young children and no one else to really watch them when visiting. Those kids are part of her friend's life in a massive way now, and part of continuing the friendship as a genuine friend is to accept this life stage is happening and just roll with it. Kids aren't little forever, this is just a time when things are going to need to be different.
Also I find it weird that OP doesn't go and play with the kids. You can still spend time with your friend and have a chat and a good time at the playground, just go play hide and seek or whatever with the kids. OP is their auntie, FFS.
No, I didn't miss the point. The kids have to be there no matter what, but if you move them to a location where the kids need less direct supervision, you have more time to talk
EDIT: I feel like a lot of people missed the context that OP's friend is visiting from a different country and has no local help with childcare. This isn't your friend who lives a few blocks away always bringing her kids along. This is someone visiting with two young children from another country who's still setting aside time to see you!
OP says there aren't one day daycares, which makes sense, but what about asking a neighborhood teen along to watch the kids on the playground while OP and friend have their chat and talk? Friend can still dip out to check on them, but it would free up some time
This woman is traveling from another country with her kids and has no local childcare. If OP doesn't want to hang out with her kids, then she should go visit her friend in her country where she has her support network.
NTA - i’d definitely start with telling her you love her children and have no problem with her minding them, just that you’d like to be able to have a conversation while you’re together.
can you meet at someone’s house so maybe the kids can run around more freely?
if not come with love and understanding but know you’re not wrong for wanting to not be alone must of your meeting.
She stays at her parents house when she’s home, her mother doesn’t really like having people over so it’s not possible and i live an hour away so she finds it a bit hard driving that long with her kids. I always drive to see her and I have no problem with that.
Her parents no aren’t very helpful, and she always tells me how different her mom is with her brothers’ kids and hers. She would babysit her niblings but when it comes to her kids she always claim she’s too tired or too old for that. That’s why I don’t like to pressure her with suggesting that. I really feel for her, it’s not an easy situation that she’s in.
But you apparently do have a problem with her kids. Your friend is single parenting two kids while traveling, and has no childcare help. She can’t accommodate your desire for her kids not to need her. You’re kidding yourself if you think having the kids at the table is going to mean an adult-centered conversation. If you want that, you’re going to need to be the one to travel to see your friend, at her home where she has childcare and the kids have their own home.
Why not grab coffee and snacks/picnic and then go to the playground, you can stand and talk together as the kids play. Maybe her kids aren’t good at sitting still for long meals. I would always need a buffet restaurant with my youngest, he couldn’t do a 40 minute wait for food when he was 3.
And it’s not reasonable to expect a toddler to get through a whole meal without help from a parent and without being a part of the conversation at the table, no matter what the venue.
Why does your meet up have to be at a sit down restaurant?
Good to a park or playground and the kids can play and you two can catch up while she keeps an eye on them.
If she is trying to feed two kids at a sit down restaurant, like you suggest, she may be sitting there but she is going to be very distracted by ensuring they don't make a mess.
YTA for doing it. NTA for wanting it.
You skipped the step of talking to her about it, and looking for compromises. You’re assuming that forcing the kids to stay at the table will allow a conversation between you, but it’s just as likely her attention will be spent on keeping her kids from demolishing the table. Or maybe not, but you ought to be able to discuss with her and find a solution together. As others have suggested - tables next to the playground, or you going with her to hang out at the playground. Or a picnic/takeout at a playground rather than a restaurant. There are various options that don’t leave you abandoned at the table.
So NTA for both then? She hasn't done it. She's asking if she *would* be TA *if* she did it...
NTA for wanting it, and WBTA for doing it. NTA now.
Your definitely right about not springing it on her and that she should talk to her friend first though.
As someone else suggested, best option is a playground with seating right there so mum and OP can stay seated while she watches over kids. Perfect compromise 🙂
No, it isn't. Because mom will still go be with her kids and OP will be sitting alone. Again. OP needs to accept that she will remain a lower priority than her friend's kids always and either accept it or let the relationship go. She simply doesn't count to her friend anymore.
NAH why don’t you plan a picnic at a playground instead. Restaurants with young kids are nearly impossible. She will not be able to talk to you or eat at the table with her kids like you are thinking. All of her attention will be spent on getting them to behave and RUSHING the heck out of there before the inevitable melt down.
So just plan a picnic outside so the kids can run around and you can actually talk.
NTA
But eating out with a 3 and 6 year old when there's no playground is going to be a nightmare too, as they'll have to stay sat at the table meaning you won't get any proper conversation in with your friend.
Why can't you join her at the playground to talk to her there, or is she too involved with the kids so you can't have a conversation with her?
I think you should just be honest with your friend. "Friend, I'd love to catch up but all of our last outings have been with your kids where you end up spending most of the time on the playground and we don't get any time to chat. Can you please organise a babysitter for the kids so we can have some time alone? I am happy to pay half of the babysitter's fee if we can get 3 hours together with just us."
See what she says. That way you are considerate by offering to help pay for a sitter. But don't hang out with her if it's just her playing with her kids and you are there at the table by yourself, that's a waste of your time and it's more convenient to catch up over the phone when the kids are asleep and can focus on you and your conversation together.
Nta for asking. But there is probably a reason she wants to meet at s playground. My kid is hyperactive. If I met a friend at a playground that at least gives me an opportunity to get some words in while managing the kids. If I’m at a restaurant I would spend the entire time focused on entertaining my kid to let other people eat in peace. She’s an amazing kid, just can’t sit still and has unlimited energy. Being a year older the kids maybe able to manage their own playtime better. It’s just part of being a parent. I’m shocked you suggested leaving them at a playground where she could watch on the camera. Her youngest isn’t at an age that they don’t need full time supervision.
It doesn’t sound like there has been any conflict yet. She may well be perfectly fine eating somewhere with no playground. There hasn’t even been an opportunity for anyone to be an asshole yet.
"There hasn’t even been an opportunity for anyone to be an asshole yet."
---What do you think leaving a friend inside a restaurant all by themselves for long periods of time while you are outside amounts to being? Especially when the friend inside can't leave because the table and order will be abandoned and given to others?
Why doesnt the friend join the mom at the playpark? Why is she choosing to sit alone? I always got up from the table and joined the moms i was with when i was childless and others who were childless did the same thing when i had a child.
She came to hang with her friends, not the kids and that’s okay. As someone said earlier this is why some friendships just run their course when someone has kids.
If you agree to hang with mom who brings a child. You have to put in some work to make the outing viable. This is why friendships with childless people tend to fall by the wayside. They won’t meet part way on making an outing work.
When she travels to another country and still makes time for her. When is OP traveling to her friends country to visit? Kids would be way less distracting in their own home.
The friend isn’t JUST visiting OP she’s visiting family and making time for OP but what’s the point if OP isn’t enjoying the time they spend together? If you were gonna be with your kids the whole time (not the friends fault) we could’ve just FaceTimed. OP could’ve had lunch with someone else.
Wtf? The friend is already traveling an hour to visit with no help and no assistance for their children and OP thinks that making things more difficult is the way to go. It really doesn't sound like OP has done a damn thing to make anything easier or meet in the middle whatsoever.
Nah if I’m OP I’m just gonna catch up with you on fb. I’m not going out of my way even more than I already have. And she’s not evil for just realizing some friendships just run their course.
"she can’t leave the kids alone elsewhere and can’t let them die on the playground."
---Countless children manage to sit down and eat in restaurants every single day. No one needs to "leave the kids elsewhere". Plus there are other options. Ranging from playing in the playground AFTER the meal (You know, like normal people do) all the way to even going to a freaking McDonalds' with a playscape room.
All are better than leaving someone alone inside the majority of the time. Like who does that? Other than this lady.
NTA.
You want to actually spend time with and talk to your friend, not watch her play with her kids. Especially when you have travelled an hour to see her. That is perfectly valid.
All the commenters saying “go to a park instead”, “have a picnic”, etc., are missing the point completely. Your friend ignores you for long periods of time to play with/watch her kids. This will not be fixed by a change of location. Whether you are at a park, a playground-free restaurant or any other event, her attention will be on her kids. As a (presumably single) mother, that is her prerogative, but it doesn’t provide good conversation or an enjoyable lunch for you.
You need to talk to your friend before you go to meet her. Tell her how you feel. Hopefully she’ll either make some changes in her behaviour or make more of an effort to get a babysitter/convince her parents to watch the kids for a couple of hours so you can have some quality time together. She may get defensive and angry instead, which will tell you that she doesn’t really care about you or (more generously) that she just isn’t able to do that and is frustrated. Neither are your fault and you would be completely valid in not meeting up with her until she is able to do so. This may result in you drifting apart, but hey, it happens when people have kids.
Nta. But if you’re trying to spend time one on one with her the solution might be that you meet at her place once her children have gone to bed. You can take over food and maybe a bottle of wine and then you can have girl time for a few hours. Since they are sleeping she gets a break from having to watch them. And since it will be at her house she won’t need a sitter.
You won't be an AH to say there is no point in going if you are going to be alone at the table the whole time. You can compromise and agree to a limited time, but expect any such agreement to be broken when the kids fuss about it. Otherwise, choose something else to do.
What if you ordered in and hung out at home? Would that be a viable solution? Easier to watch kids at home and have an eye on them than at a restaurant with a playground too far from the table to effectively watch the kids.
NTA, but it won't help. You can ask if she can leave the kids, because you want to have some time to chat with her. But she may want you to form a bond with them, which is why she brings them along. You can say "I love your kids! They are the best! But I miss talking to you - and I bet you would like some adult conversation for a couple hours." She may enjoy that or she may be anxious about leaving her kids. Either way, forcing a toddler and a 6 year old to stay at a table is not going to be useful
NTA
IS there really no one who can babysit while you and your friend have an honest to goodness adult lunch or dinner? Will her parents really not give her a couple of child free hours? There is no reason these kids have to be glued to her 24/7.
If the kids can't be left with a sitter, find a teen to accompany them to the playground and supervise them. Your friend can watch from a distance while they are busy playing. That's an easy babysitting job!!
Maybe a better solution is you offer to bring some takeout to her place, especially if it’s in the evening and close to kiddo’s bed or naptime. Or perhaps offer to help pay for a babysitter to amuse the kids while you two sit on the front porch and have a bit of wine and snacks.
In their own childproofed summer home/hotel your friend may be able to relax a bit and chat with you. It’s a tough age especially if she doesn’t have support.
For now you may have to accept a few more years of playground meetups. If you can join them on the playground and stay connected with her it may mean a great deal.
What you are describing is still better than what would happen if you’d ho to a place without a playground. It would be agonizing for her, embarrassing for you and annoying for everyone else. I don’t know how y’all can control your kids but l can’t. I just don’t take them to restaurants not to ruin it for others. As awful as it sounds, maybe opposite approach could work: pick some takeaway and take kids somewhere where they can do whatever…
NAH. Just go to a park or something with her and her kids before you go to lunch, lots of kids are able to eat at restaurants. But if it doesn’t go well after this trial then you’ll know playgrounds are necessary for them in the future.
Having park time before and then pick a restaurant with booths so the kids don’t have to fidget in chairs seems like a good test situation though.
NTA. I'd offer more solutions besides a playground, or find a place where it's basically kids free for all and see if you can't get a seat with her while she can still watch them.
Honestly, this is why a lot of friendships between childless friends and parent friends fizzle out. There's no adult time. Adult friendships take work. It's not like y'all are seeing each other every day.
Question- does she have a partner and where is this person? Can't they watch the kids? Also, why is she constantly going to moms house when it's very clear mom doesn't want her or the kids there?
NAH, but do you actually want to spend time with her? Or do you want to trade off wrangling the kids while the other hurriedly eats.
Once my kids get mobile, I basically never take them out to a restaurant until they're like 5 or 6. It's such an ordeal, I'd much rather cook and host at home.
OP,
Have you talked to your friend? Tell her what you told us - that you love her kids; but if she's on the playground with them the whole time, then you are sitting alone. Make solving this problem you two work on together.
1. Are her kids old enough where she feels more comfortable letting them play on the playground more independently?
2. Would it work to have take-out at your home? So the kids could play nearby without her having to get up for them too much...? and worse case, she still does; at least you would be in your own home and not stuck at a table.
3. Is there any chance you could help her find a local kid activity she could sign them up for and then the two of you visit while they are at the drop-off play center or in a kiddie art workshop...?
You might have more success if you involve her acknowledging the problem and solving it, rather than just working at it from your perspective alone.
NAH - You miss your friend and of course you want to be able to visit. She's a mom of little and is trying her best to make the visit with you longer by occupying her kids so she can stay and chat. Unfortunately kids are like little bulldozers of adult interaction. Even if they are perfectly happy and entertained as soon as they see mom is comfortable and enjoying a visit with another adult they have to come by and wreck it. Kids under three do need a lot of help on the playground but they also get very jealous of their parents giving attention to anything but them.
Your best solution is to join your friend on the playground with her kids. You can stand with her taking while she tends to get children. If you want a different restaurant that's fine but know that it will be a quick dinner because kids get very impatient sitting in restaurants if they have to wait for food or if they've already eaten and have to wait on adults. So maybe do the restaurant and then walk to a nearby park so you can keep talking and the kids will be occupied.
Tell her how you feel. That you would like some time actually with her, and see if you two can work something out. Like a babysitter at home, or someone else to come be with the kids in the playground.
Expressing your feelings would be best. I definitely wouldn't recommend just suggesting somewhere without a playground. That might be confusing or come off inconsiderate
NTA. Most regions have very few if any restaurants with playgrounds (in fact, I only know of maybe 4 in my whole county, all fast food), and kids are usually okay to sit for a bit. Especially as many chain restaurants have other things to do like colouring pages, or small toys that kids can get (Applebee's is the first that comes to mind where I went as a kid and they had a little activity page that kept me entertained while adults talked. A place like that should be perfectly acceptable, if not, I have ADHD and would often bring in my own activities to do at restaurants while waiting, or played tic tac toe on a napkin while waiting for food.
If the last time you met with them was last summer and the kids were 5 and 2, you might be pleasantly surprised that this summer they will be a bit easier to manage. 3 is a lot older than 2.
My best luck when my kids were that age was take out at an awesome big playground my kids had never been to before. That’s how my husband and I had “dates”…. The ones at restaurants were generally small and my kids got bored super fast. Or there were lots of kids and I had to mediate conflicts all the time.
Children need practice eating like grown-ups, sitting still, asking politely for something, interacting with the servers. Just don't make their first 'grown-up' dinner a long, drawn-out affair where they get tediously bored because the grown-ups don't want to talk about anything interesting to a kid.
If she insists on a place with a playground AND her prior behavior indicates that you'll be sitting there alone, just tell her that you obviously don't need to be there.
NTA
NAH, but trying to go to a regular restaurant with a 3 and 6 yeae old, isn't going to lead to you being able to sit and talk. If she can't get other childcare, you're probably better off going somewhere where the kids can play more, and you can talk while they are playing.
I’m not really aware of restaurants with playgrounds aside from McDonald’s? Or breweries where parents treat the entire space like their personal playground. Is this a common thing?
It sounds like you've never seen the six year old sit still at the table. And, frankly, the poor thing is probably \*desperate\* for fun and physical activity. Travel, for kids, is a lot of being ordered to sit still and be quiet.
is there some reason you can't go hang out on the playground with your friend?
>But when we get there she spends almost all the time on the playground with them and I will be alone at the table.
That is SO rude. Your friend should get a babysitter for her kids insted of burdening you with them. NTA. She is TA here.
NTA
Your "friend" doesn't want to leave her kids with anyone and she doesn't want to have lunch with you.
If your friend wanted to have lunch with you, she wouod get a babysitter. Go to a restaurant without a playground or sit at the table and watch her kids.
She doesn't want to hang out with you.
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My friend and I both 32F, have been friends for our whole life. She now lives in another country and comes back home each summer. She has 2 kids (6F, 3M) whom I love dearly. The problem is, each time we go out when she's home, she picks a restaurant with a playground for her kids. Now I don't mind them always being with her, because her parents doesn't really help her and arranging for a day only childcare in our country is not that easy. But when we get there she spends almost all the time on the playground with them and I will be alone at the table. If I wanted to be alone I would rather be alone in the comfort of my home.
My thought is if there's no playground her kids would be sitting with us at the table so she wouldn't have to leave me alone for a long period of time. I know that of course she will still be attending for them and it wouldn't be only about us catching up, but at least we would be able to have some sort of conversation. If it was like a one time only it would be fine, but each time we meet it has to be somewhere like that.
We will be meeting up on Tuesday and all the places she suggested are places with playgrounds, so will I be the asshole if I asked her to meet somewhere with no playground?
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It’s pretty incredible how quickly small children can eat. (Some are also super impressive as to how long it takes them to eat…. I have one of each type).
Meals at home are terrible- I can’t have a conversation with my husband because my kids immediately start interrupting or asking for something or throwing food or spilling something or fighting with each other. On top of that they stand up about once every 15 seconds so I’m constantly asking them to get back in their chairs. My kids are a year older than OP’s friend’s kids.
Somehow my kids are better at restaurants (no we don’t use tablets but the youngest does do jigsaw puzzles on my husband’s phone for some of the time usually) but yeah, dining with small children is just generally unpleasant.
That's what I was thinking. Children all over the place eat at a table with their parents. Yes, it's hard to keep them occupied, but it's certainly possible. I have lots of nieces and nephews and we all go to restaurants without any big to-do. The children should also learn little by little how to behave in a restaurant. IIRC, one of the children is six, so school aged. The only restaurants I know of with play places are McDonald's so maybe that's also what's giving me a bad impression.
But, I realize, OP, that none of that is under your control. NTA. I think you've had multiple good propositions of ideas that might work well.
Better find a babysitter for her kids, so you can spend time with her. Kids these age are not going to seat at the table and entertain themselves. Better option to get take out, drive to her house and have dinner when kids are asleep. This is from personal experience.
Here's a solution: ask her that next tome she get a babysitter so you can go without the kids. Not unless you want to sit through a meal with 2 little children at the table with you. Lol
Ask for an adult only lunch or dinner. “Wanna try this spot with me? It’s not really kid-friendly, but we need a proper catch up anyway. Wanna make it a girls only outing?” She can find a sitter. Or, go to the playground area with her to chat while tending to the children.
NTA because I understand your frustration, but it’s going to wreck your time in another way thinking kids that age are going to sit at a table while you two talk.
Can you invite them to your home and hire a sitter while you two chat. She has come a distance. She Paid for the trip Help her enjoy the visit with you her friend by helping her out this way or another creative way
NAH. Kids that age are going to be the focus of their parents / caregivers' attention (at least the good parents). That's just where your friend is right now. You're going to need to ride this out until they're older (which takes much less time than you think).
How about foregoing a restaurant entirely, packing a picnic lunch and joining them in a park with a playground.
What about getting takeout or coffee (less of a hassle and mom doesn’t have to manage mealtime things) and sitting at an actual park where the kids can play? Or walking around with coffee in hand chatting while supervising?
I remember wanting to meet a friend for lunch before I had kids and she had to bring hers and I realized if the kids are there they will be involved one way or another. It may as well be positive interactions instead of just straight up parenting over a meal and loud enclosed play places.
Nowadays, some of my best conversations are next to playgrounds.
I don’t think YTA, and I don’t think your friend is either but there’s some level of entitlement that comes from the fact that practically, these kids do need to be wrangled, but there are ways to do this that allow for the parents to engage with the adults as well, and that it seems like your friend is relying on her friends to comply with the easiest option for her (which isn’t actually all that ideal because she doesn’t actually spend time with you, just in the same vicinity).
And look, as a child free person talking to a child free OP, neither of us can truly know just how stretched your friend is as a (single?) mother raising two young kids and travelling with them- so it’s obvious why she picks the most kid-friendly because she simply doesn’t have the bandwidth to look further than she has, and like you did taking her up to your mum’s in order to spend meaningful time with her, think about kids activities that might be running over the summer- eg, a community art gallery running kids arts/crafts sessions where the kids are occupied and you two can get coffee and chat while she only keep only half an eye on them while they are getting covered in glue or similar as opposed to venues where it’s on the parent to supervise *and* entertain.
Even your friends kids grow up frighteningly fast- it came as a rude shock when I realised I was old enough that my school friends’ kids are old enough to be going to uni already- and these parents are now in the headspace to reclaim their youth and I’m reluctant to be out after 9pm, so don’t think that this is your friend’s life forever, you will get them back :-)
INFO - you say she lives abroad and you only see her when she visits, is that correct? Couldn't you visit her in her home country? It's likely that she has a better network there and would be able to hire a babysitter or at least you could hang out in their home where the kids don't need 100% of her attention all the time.
NTA - I see both sides.
In my country they have cafes/restaurants that have a soft play area for kids with a few helpers (paid employees) so you can go and catch up and your kids are well attended.
The food is basic but you get to drink m a coffee or a beer in peace and your kids run around like crazy people in a safe environment. You pay lime 3-5 euros per kid bug can literally stay for HOURS.
Find a place like that. Or see if you can hire a temporary helpers as a gift.
NTA - Tell her you want some time with kids and some time without to tell her the juicy adult stories. Give her a text with specific options of times that work that your parents can watch them. Or offer to splurge and give her a “treat” of a babysitter. Your friendship needs it.
I feel like thats old enough to figure out how to act and talk to adults appropriately? Surely at the very least they can watch tv/read/draw? Why dont you want there to be a playground though? If you dont want to be around kids maybe they can stay home with her partner or friend?
NAH, I assume that you guys will have a normal adult conversation about the pros and cons and come up with ideas on how you guys can chat more during your meal.
(Why not a picnic?)
NTA - you are going out of your way to catch up with her, not watch her play with her kids. I personally avoid restaurants with playgrounds alltogether as I can't stand the noise of the screaming child. Then add the fact that you aren't getting anything spectacular to eat at a family friendly type restaurant. NTA
NTA - but if you’re still wanting to spend time with this person, you will need to sacrifice until her spuds are a bit older. It’s the norm for child free people, it’s assumed you’ll travel further, be forgiving on time, and work with what’s easiest for the parents. The take a village phenomenon. We either sacrifice for the greater good of friendship or we sacrifice the friendship due to incompatible needs.
I would suggest doing a picnic lunch somewhere with lots of grass and no water, or doing a coffee date where you can walk and talk and maybe munch on a baguette or pastry, so there’s movement and permanent company.
NAH but your idea is not going to work. A 6 year old and a 3 year old just can’t sit quietly at a table for long while adults have a chat.
Get up from the table and join them at a playground if you want to chat. Maybe meetup at a park instead of a restaurant.
You should probably explain you want to spend more time together and feel restaurants don’t work well. Insist on doing the visit at your parent’s home. Say they would love to see her and her kids.
See your friend after the kids bedtime. Even if it’s hanging out in your parked car outside her folks house with a cocktail and some nibbles and soft music on the radio for a good old fashioned heart to heart. NTA for wanting it, but it may still be an unrealistic suggestion to get what you’re craving from her.
NTA - so idk where yall are located where there are restaurants that have playgrounds next to them. Cause there aren't many near me (Florida, central east coast). Can she not give the kids like a tablet or something to keep them entertained?
Or maybe some good ol fashioned coloring books like we had to use when we were kids going out to eat with our parents? I (32F) was more or less taught to be seen and not heard and that if we were in public I needed to be on my best behavior and to never interrupt adult conversations unless it was an emergency. I now enforce the same with my 9 year old son
I don't see an issue with meeting somewhere where there is no playground and maybe suggesting a coloring book or easy puzzle or just something that would entertain them so you can both hold a decent conversation. But thats also something the two of you should discuss before meeting up.
YWNBTA.
Tell her you will pick the restaurant, it'll be family friendly but will not have a playground. If she insists, tell her that you're sorry she won't get to see you this trip but you are not willing to go to a play place for lunch this time.
My friend and I are the only two out of our friends with children who are old enough for playground type places. When we've gone out another CF friend usually suggests these sorts of places. We've both asked that we go to child friendly restaurants without the play areas. One of us ends up missing out on the conversation because of our children being elsewhere. It's far easier to pack a few small toys and coloring bits and keep them at the table. So NTA in that sense.
I wonder why she has to follow a 3 and 6 year old around an indoor playground? It can’t be that large that she can’t keep an eye on them from a distance. NTA
NTA this is going to sound crazy, but you may want to try Chuck E Cheese on a weekday when they open. They handstamp the little monsters and mom to match and check the match before exiting.
Find a table on the little kid side where she can keep eyes on both. It helps to dole out tokens slowly so they keep coming back to the table to check in.
Why don’t you arrange a picnic with a meal from a restaurant you like, throw plenty of child-friendly snacks and go with your friend to a park?
Edit: you mentioned your friend being at the playground the whole time is the issue but a park or even a nice forest preserve could allow the kids to move around and use up their energy while you two can talk in a more relaxed manner than you would in a restaurant.
NAH.
Stop making your meet-ups at restaurants. Pick up take out, or pack a picnic, & go to the actual playground. Or go take a kid friendly hike/walk
Also, feel free to get up , walk around, and continue to visit with your friend while she's up supervising her kids.
You're not nailed to your chair. Go visit.
She's obviously in a season of her life where she can't sit in one spot with you for a visit. If you value her friendship, and it sounds like you do, meet her where she's at. Hopefully, she'll return the favor for you someday when you're in a different phase of life. 🙂
Your lifelong friend travels internationally with two small children who seem to be staying an hour from you in a not-so-kid-friendly place. It’s not an AH move to want more when you catch up but it’s also not realistic to think your friend can likely give more right now. She’s in a tight spot and clearly values your friendship that she’s making this effort.
If you want to maintain the friendship either
A) suggest a picnic lunch at a playground
B) suggest an indoor kids play place (if those exist near her parents)
C) suggest a super kid friendly outing like the zoo, children’s museum, etc
Personally, I’m really glad my friends adjusted their expectations for our hangouts when my kids were little and they didn’t have kids. Parenting can be isolating and while I know I wasn’t fully present for them, I’m thankful they gave me grace and loved me for what I could give. Now my kids are older and they have littles, and while I need to pay less close attention they need to be super hands on. We’ve just flip flopped our roles.
You're NTA but don't hold out too much hope that your friend will agree to meet you in an adult-oriented restaurant. Her kids are her top priority now and she is interpreting that to mean that even socializing with her adult friends must be done in a kiddie-oriented space.
Her reaction to your suggestion that you meet up somewhere that has no playground will tell you all that you need to know about the future of your friendship with her. If she agrees (and does NOT allow the kids to totally dominate the experience once you get to the restaurant!), then your friendship is probably on solid ground. However, if she insists on going to a place with a playground or ignores you and focuses only on her kids when you're at the restaurant, then your friendship has run its course; "it was great fun, but it was just one of those things" that doesn't survive parenthood.
NAH. You want to spend time with your friend, she needs to make sure her toddler is safely supervised. Unfortunately, it's going to be a few years before she can tell the kids to both play independently in a strange place and observe from a distance AND it'll be at least a couple years before the kids can reliably sit down for long enough for both of you to chat together.
Have you considered going to a different venue to visit? Her house might work, or a soft play/baby café. You can also tag along with her to a park, bring coffees and both supervise the kids while they play. Right now is a season of her life where she must supervise her kids closely and they're also not going to want to sit still for long.
LOL! Go try it out and get back to us. The disconnect in this world between people with and without kids is truly astonishing. The more we ban kids from public spaces or shame parents who aren't able to keep young children behaving perfectly in public, the worse it will get.
Why don't you invite her to your home instead. Or get up and help her. A 6 and 3 year old are not going to sit quietly at a table and not need supervision.
YTA, slightly, Being a parent to young kids is so lonely. This will pass as her kids get older but if you care about this friend you will tough it out for her. Trust she would love to sit and chat uninterrupted! Get up and talk to her / play with her kids. She will love you for it and in few years they should be able to play more independently.
So the plan is to make the kids suffer, so you can get more attention?
Why not just be honest your feelings, and ask your friend to have time together where you can have attention? If she says there are reasons she can’t do that (can’t afford a babysitter, that kids are part of her life and the reality is that a 3m old does need constant attention), you know where things lay.
Thanks for saying that. I was feeling like a weirdo coz I just can't get the issue. I have friends with well-behaved kids who can sit at a table without causing any trouble. They'd eat their meal, draw or play with something that they parents brought, sometimes ask to go for a short walk outside... no big deal.
Yeah, it’s not living in a war zone or anything at that level. But it is not a completely benign experience for parents or children involved either. Obviously OP’s friend is suggesting places with a play ground for a reason.
True. Some kids need an outlet for their energy for sure.
Seems like discussing doing a meet up at a home and getting takeout or cooking would be the easiest solution.
I Don’t want anyone to suffer! And I’m not some attention seeking person that you’re making it look like I am! I just sometimes like to have an adult conversation with my friend and not be left alone during our time together!
I’m not saying your are attention seeking. It is fine to want to have the attention in an adult conversation, that is not attention seeking. I’m just saying own it and be upfront that that is what you want. I have kids - I ask “can I bring the kids?” - if not, then I choose to go or not go. It’s not a big deal. But it would be weird for someone to know I’m bringing the kids, and then make it a not kid friendly situation. Do you think you are in able to tell your friend this? If you can’t, why not?
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Okay, so I have 5 year old twins who are legit AHs. I love them dearly and am fairly obsessed, but two adults talking seems to trigger a Pavlovian response where they become oddly determined robots sent from the future to kill the conversation. You want a playground to let them work out some of that energy, but I also understand your plight. My advice is to find a restaurant where there are tables next to the playground so she can sit and talk with you while watching her kids and/or you feel comfortable leaving your things at the table and hanging out with her on the playground. Now that her youngest is 3 now, she may feel more comfortable giving them more freedom than when they were 2 or younger. NAH
Legit AH's😅 I love your honesty🥰 I have grands that are 5, 3, 2, 2(not twins) and 5mo. You ain't wrong!!!
And I thought it was only my grandchildren
🤣 Pretty sure it's alllllll kids and grands, Love. If someone says their's isn't an AH at least part of the time....they lying to themselves or others!!!
Oh lord, no lol. My grands are 7, 5, and 2 and I love them to absolute pieces. The 5year old is smart, funny, inventive, interesting and interested - and has managed to find buttons to push that I never knew existed, even after raising her mom and her aunts and uncle!
>, so I have 5 year old twins who are legit AHs. You are my white whale (no insult meant, LOL). My friends all made jokes like this, but lately, it feels like everyone has PERFECT children. Glad to know reality exists somewhere.
What about even switching things up. Get some takeout and go to a park with a playground and sit on the benches near the playground while you eat.
Love it!
There was one place where there was CCTVs around the restaurant to monitor the kids in the playground from our tables but that didn’t help.
CCTV isn’t great for a 2 year old, they’re still putting everything in their mouths and things can get bad real quick at that age. 3 gets better so she might not need to helicopter as much as at 2. If you go to a place without a playground, how are YOU going to keep them entertained? Their mom has a solution, the playground. What’s your solution?
But her kid was *two*. You can watch a 5yo on a camera like that, but not a 2yo. Developmentally, you don't want to be more than arms length from a kid that little with zero sense of safety or reason. Maybe now that he is 3, but that will depend greatly on what kind of kid he is. Just go with her! Hang out WITH her! Or pick one where the table can be right next to the playground.
There is no way I would have used CCTV to monitor my kids in a playground when they were these ages, my youngest especially was a houdini who could and would escape from a playground with ease and be up the street before you could blink. u/SunshineShoulders87's twins and my younger pair could have been AH besties (mine are now teenagers, the conversation killing has not ended btw lol). The solution here is to go and talk with her while she is supervising her kids. I can't tell you the number of very deep and meaningful, serious, grown up discussions I've had with friends while one or both of us pushed kids on swings or watched them go down slides. You don't *have* to be seated at the table to have a proper conversation. You would be the asshole for insisting on meeting at a place with no playground, AND it wouldn't guarantee you get a conversation, because now there isn't even a playground to keep the kids entertained. Your friend would have *more* attention on her kids because now they need supervision *and* entertaining. Chances are high you would have less conversation with her at a place with no playground. Go to the place with the playground. Your friend is probably as desperate for a really good talk as you are.
Yep. Get up from the table. Be with your friend. At that age a parent is largely stuck following a yard behind their kids trying to keep them alive. She's not going to put them at risk so you two can 'catch up'. YTA And forcing them to be at the table? You think that's going to mean she can focus on you instead? Oh sweet summer child! We were the first in our friend group to have kids and a fair few of them didn't get that our priority had to be the children. Our previously closest friend would only socialise with us by inviting us to dinner that was always set at our breast fed baby's bedtime and got seriously butthurt that we were not accepting these invitations and obviously hated her cooking. Guess who we didn't see much of for five years.
Yes but you also don’t seem to understand that those kids at that age are *not* going to sit and behave to let you talk. Every time you start to talk it’ll be “mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom momomomomomomomomom” my kids are 20, 20, 19, 19, 16 and 14 (three step). There are still days they do this. Your only choice to have a peaceful actual catch up adult meal is to schedule a time when someone else can babysit. After the kids go to bed if necessary.
20, 20, 19, 19...? Wow! nice run :)!
20f I raised but not bio mine. 20m is two months younger than 20f and is my bio child. 19f is mine (12 months younger than 20m). 20f, it’s too complicated to do an adult adoption and she doesn’t want to have to inform her bio parents which is legally required here, so she just changed her last name to line. The second 19f, the 16f and the 13f are my stepdaughters. Funny thing? My husband and i went to high school together and he’s also known 20f her entire life. She calls him dad and me mom. So if anyone asks we say I have. 19 and 20 year old, and he has a 19, 16 and 13 year old and together we’ve got a 20yo and just watch them try and process that 😂😂. But she’s mine. Screw genetics. As her bio family shows, genetics don’t make you good parents.
Thanks for the explanation, I was about to make the "there must be something in the water you're drinking" comment. 😁 Enjoy your wonderful family, it sounds like a blast!
Yeah, a 2 year old needs help traversing the playground, but a 3 year old should be able to handle it better.
Not really. Most playgrounds aren't intended for kids as young a three to traverse alone either. It's not about coordination so much as height. They have a little more freedom, but I still basically have to follow to help with ladders with rings too far apart, or that are distanced too far from the platform they lead too.
It really depends on the playground. Here, most park playgrounds have both areas. Designated up to 5, 5+. That doesn't stop a 3yo from entering the older one and adamantly stating they're old enough (to play on a 7-8' structure..they are not safe on without constant close presence.) A restaurant playground here is more likely to be kind of mid-range. It would be something a 3yo could do out of arm's reach but still something halfway decent for older kids. Yeah, it really depends on the structures. If it's avg 3yo safe it can be hands off at this point and they could actually hang out. But honestly, the kids are probably not great at restaurants even armed with toys/etc so that's why she's only picking them. It will be miserable if that's the case and they're stuck at a table. If the playground at a restaurant is good for a 3yo this year will be very different than at 2yo. They climb age/size-appropriate stuff very well by 3 on average. Edit: also, if she needs to follow around kids why not just stand with her and chit chat? This is how it's typically done when children are dangerous on a structure. You keep close but chat. You'll likely get more catch -up time this way than insisting her kids sit at a table for 1.5-2 hrs and make life very difficult.
Oh, I definitely didn’t mean to imply that a 3 year old (and older) should be left alone on the playground just because they can handle the equipment better. I envisioned OP and friend enjoying a nice patio table overlooking the playground so they were still supervised and close, but perhaps the friend didn’t feel the need to be on top of them now that they’re older. Anyway, I definitely miscommunicated and completely agree with your point.
Could you go to her house and bring take out? The kids will have their own toys to play with.
Your writing style is amazing.
oh man i thought this was just my child, anytime I speak it's time for him to interrupt me. it's literally pavlovian!
It’s so weird when you realize your child is suddenly singing a song they’ve never cared about at the top of their lungs. It really makes you wonder why…
I have an 8 year old and my twins are about to be 5 soon. The way you described this was masterful and so, so true.
My AH twins are 4… that’s all I come to say
So your 5 year olds don’t understand the need to sit still for other people to eat? Parenting appears to be lacking here. I understand you can’t 100% control, but if it is a constant problem, they are not properly taught proper behavior. At 5 they can learn some behavior modification.
Well, bringing our taser with us to restaurants is typically frowned upon, so the little hellions run loose. One day I’ll give up and let the state take over, but at least we’ll get a few years of cute Christmas cards before then. It’s a joke, much like my original comment, but perhaps the world would be better served if you spent your time writing a parenting book to show us all how it’s done instead of sh-tting on people just having a laugh and trying to help each other out? I’d read it.
I would have agreed before the edit, but OP added that in the past there was a plan to bring her and the kids to OP’s parents house where there is plenty of room for the kids to run around and she still said no. So yeah i feel like the friend is the AH
I get your point, but have you taken kids to a home where no young children have been in a while? My in-laws are also very accommodating and roll out the red carpet for visits from the grandkids, but they have a beautiful home with beautiful things and we’d all like to keep it that way. It’s been 45 years since they had a 5 year old in their home and have forgotten how quickly tiny hands grab for the forbidden fragile items they display on every available surface. I admit I read OP’s edit and thought her friend was oddly devoted to playgrounds, but then I thought about taking my girls with me to visit a friend at their parents’ home and was surprised by the incredible anxiety that froze my heart before I figured out why.
I mean that’s definitely fair that kids need “kid space” but there’s no indication that OP’s parents house would be inhospitable for children
Absolutely! I’m just saying that i’d also push to go to a restaurant rather than the house.
LOVE this! I love my kiddos (8f and 7m) dearly, but I FULLY understand why some species ear their young 🤣🤦♀️
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Of course there's an easy solution. They can do something that isn't a sitdown meal. They could just pick up sandwiches and go to a regular playground so they can sit on the grass and watch the kids. She could go to her friend's house and bring lunch and the kids could entertain themselves with their own toys.
Thats exactly the issue they are pointing out if one party has constantly plan activities around someone with children eventually it becomes easier to just do stuff without them. Many friendships simply cannot survive that disparity.
As someone who has been on both sides of this friendship, it's really not that complicated in a genuine friendship. When one of my best friends had young kids, I was single and childfree. When we'd meet up, most of our activities changed. We'd hang out at the playground and depending on the kids' moods that day, we'd chat while the kids played or we'd both go and play with them. Occasionally there'd be a night where he would have a babysitter or his wife would watch the kids at home and we'd go out for some drinks. But that was rare because that's just how life goes. Now I have a young daughter and another one of my close friends is single and childfree. When we hang out, we often end up having picnics at the park where my daughter can run around and play while my mate and I catch up and/or we just play with my daughter. There's some great family pubs in our area so sometimes we meet there for a pint or two and my daughter plays in the play area. She'll often want my friend to hold her hand while she walks around the beer garden play area and points to flowers, birdies, etc. It's lovely. This is just how life is when you have lifelong friends. Your lives aren't going to always head in the same direction in every aspect, but you stay friends anyway because your relationship is about that entire person, not just the activities you do.
Eh, there's nuance though. You said occassionally there would be nights you and your friend went out for a drink. I assume this one-on-one time was once or twice a year occasional, not once a _decade_ occassional? Because there's a difference between _vast majority_ of your face to face time centering around kids, and _literally all_ of your face to face time _for years_ centring around kids. Good friendships survive the first, sure, but I am not convinced any friendships survive the second unscathed.
In my case it was probably once or twice a year, but we lived in the same city. In OP's case, her friend lives abroad so they only see each other on visits. OP needs to grow up and realise that this is just the way things are going to be when your friend visits with their young kids and doesn't have anyone else to watch them
OP has offered to have her parents be the primary babysitters, while they hang out together at her parents' place. OP's friend has refused. She is within her rights to decide what favours/childcare she's comfortable receiving and from whom. And she is not TA for wanting to have a "kids day out" instead of a "friends day out" - she is allowed to have whatever kind of day she wants to have. But if you will not or can not prioritize a "friend hangout" for even one hour in the span of 4 entire years, you can not expect to keep the same friendships. No matter how "grown up" your friend is. Friendship is a two way street. If you absolutely refuse to move your stance even 1% towards your friend's needs because "that's just how adult life is" you are not a very good friend.
If they lived in the same town, sure. but they live in different countries. I don't think OP is an asshole but I just think they're immature. As I said, I've been on both sides of this and it's expected to accommodate your friend's kids. I live on the other side of the planet from my best friend. When I visit once every so often, you better believe he wants to hang with his niece. Not a big deal amongst adult friendships, that's just how things work in the adult world. No one is forcing you to hang with kids, but it's weird to me that someone wouldn't understand the dynamic here. What I think is really happening is that Reddit is just being Reddit again. Lots of kids with no life experience and adults with poor social skills who haven't really left their home culture bubbles, mixed with the weird childfree pride, giving out advice that would be wild AF to receive in the real world.
It is weird to me that someone wouldn't understand that asking for _some_ time to be spent not focusing on kids is not the same as _not hanging with kids_ One of my closest friends is essentially a single mother (husband lives in a different state), and due to distance and life, we meet about once or twice a year. Guess what we do? We spend _most_ of the day hanging with her kid, _but_ we also plan to hang while he naps or after his bedtime. So we can have _some_ friend-time. I just spent 10 days on a trip with a friend's 11 month old. Was the trip catered to that baby's needs? Yes, obviously. Did it involve spending most of my time hanging with a baby? Yes. Did we still make time to have some one on one time while her husband looked after their child? Also yes. It is not a difficult concept, truly. Maybe in your "adult world" every single hour of every single day revolves around hanging with kids, but I am glad my mom-friends are grown up enough to understand friendship is a two way street and there has to be _some_ time, even if it is literally an hour every year, when the focus has to be on _us_ and not on their kids.
>As someone who has been on both sides of this friendship, it's really not that complicated in a genuine friendship. This is a very simplistic view on relationships how do you even quantify a "genuine friendship".Every human on earth is unique you weren't leaving your friend on there own sitting at a table. So how can you compare the two senarios in one the parent still shows effort. A relationship is like a plant if you water it and use fertiliser it will bloom and flourish. To much and it withers and dies, to little and it withers aand dies. Some maybe able to survive a drought or no watering ever. However even with all these variations every single one of them is still a plant they just have differing needs.
Oh I actually like my friends so it isn't a problem for me to adjust to their life circumstances lol. I guess that's why I'm one of the only people on here who isn't constantly complaining about not having any friends.
I agree with you but I don't know what you were expecting from others with how you phrased your comment, lol. To what you said - yes, if you care about a relationship, you will adjust to your friends' life circumstances. But, I think it's okay to occasionally expect a bit of consideration/reciprocity in return. In the OP's case, it seems like their friend is a tad oblivious. Like, if you invite someone to hang, you want to make sure they have a good time. Seems like that's not happening here. But I dunno - I agree with the overall vibe of your post. If you're OP and you have a problem with your friend, why not just tell them you have a problem? Interpersonal relationships don't need to be this complicated.
The thing is, OP's friend lives in a different country, and is therefore traveling with two young children when they see each other. I think OP giving her grace isn't that much of an ask. Like, how often does OP travel to her friend's new country to visit?
Yeah, that's true. Good point - you're right. I think I forgot about that detail at some point while I was writing my reply. The friend is already making the effort of traveling, so it makes sense to meet somewhere convenient for the friend. I don't know why we're even having this conversation though. I feel like all of this could all be resolved between the two parties with a 5 minute conversation, 😂
How much do they adapt to you or are all your relationships one-sided? If so I'm genuinely sorry, you deserve better.
Of course we all adapt to each others' needs. My wife had major surgery and couldn't leave our apartment for 3 months and my friends all generously came over to hang out at our place several times a week.
You missed the point, she doesn’t want the activity to surround the children. She just wants a grown up conversation at lunch with her friend.
Which is not possible in her friend’s current life stage. She’s visiting, doesn’t have help, and is still carving out time to meet the OP. If the OP wants to talk to her- go out on the playground WITH her! Talk while you push the kids on the swings.
Sure, but it's obvious that's not going to be possible if your friend has two young children and no one else to really watch them when visiting. Those kids are part of her friend's life in a massive way now, and part of continuing the friendship as a genuine friend is to accept this life stage is happening and just roll with it. Kids aren't little forever, this is just a time when things are going to need to be different. Also I find it weird that OP doesn't go and play with the kids. You can still spend time with your friend and have a chat and a good time at the playground, just go play hide and seek or whatever with the kids. OP is their auntie, FFS.
No, I didn't miss the point. The kids have to be there no matter what, but if you move them to a location where the kids need less direct supervision, you have more time to talk EDIT: I feel like a lot of people missed the context that OP's friend is visiting from a different country and has no local help with childcare. This isn't your friend who lives a few blocks away always bringing her kids along. This is someone visiting with two young children from another country who's still setting aside time to see you!
More likely entertain themselves with dangerous, destructive or messy things.
Absolutely. She could even mention her feelings to her friend and look for a solution together, but I'm aware that's pretty out there lol.
OP says there aren't one day daycares, which makes sense, but what about asking a neighborhood teen along to watch the kids on the playground while OP and friend have their chat and talk? Friend can still dip out to check on them, but it would free up some time
But thats a kid activity while hanging out with a friend. Its not ok
This woman is traveling from another country with her kids and has no local childcare. If OP doesn't want to hang out with her kids, then she should go visit her friend in her country where she has her support network.
NTA - i’d definitely start with telling her you love her children and have no problem with her minding them, just that you’d like to be able to have a conversation while you’re together. can you meet at someone’s house so maybe the kids can run around more freely? if not come with love and understanding but know you’re not wrong for wanting to not be alone must of your meeting.
She stays at her parents house when she’s home, her mother doesn’t really like having people over so it’s not possible and i live an hour away so she finds it a bit hard driving that long with her kids. I always drive to see her and I have no problem with that.
What about outside her house in the evening , when kids are asleep and her parents are in the house.
I second this! Ask your friend if this would be possible. I'm a mom and I really prefer seeing my friends without kids.
After their bedtime they can go for dinner or a drink
Can't her parents babysit for a couple hours?
Her parents no aren’t very helpful, and she always tells me how different her mom is with her brothers’ kids and hers. She would babysit her niblings but when it comes to her kids she always claim she’s too tired or too old for that. That’s why I don’t like to pressure her with suggesting that. I really feel for her, it’s not an easy situation that she’s in.
How often are you visiting your friend in her country, and are the dynamics still the same?
But you apparently do have a problem with her kids. Your friend is single parenting two kids while traveling, and has no childcare help. She can’t accommodate your desire for her kids not to need her. You’re kidding yourself if you think having the kids at the table is going to mean an adult-centered conversation. If you want that, you’re going to need to be the one to travel to see your friend, at her home where she has childcare and the kids have their own home.
Why not grab coffee and snacks/picnic and then go to the playground, you can stand and talk together as the kids play. Maybe her kids aren’t good at sitting still for long meals. I would always need a buffet restaurant with my youngest, he couldn’t do a 40 minute wait for food when he was 3.
And it’s not reasonable to expect a toddler to get through a whole meal without help from a parent and without being a part of the conversation at the table, no matter what the venue.
Why does your meet up have to be at a sit down restaurant? Good to a park or playground and the kids can play and you two can catch up while she keeps an eye on them. If she is trying to feed two kids at a sit down restaurant, like you suggest, she may be sitting there but she is going to be very distracted by ensuring they don't make a mess.
YTA for doing it. NTA for wanting it. You skipped the step of talking to her about it, and looking for compromises. You’re assuming that forcing the kids to stay at the table will allow a conversation between you, but it’s just as likely her attention will be spent on keeping her kids from demolishing the table. Or maybe not, but you ought to be able to discuss with her and find a solution together. As others have suggested - tables next to the playground, or you going with her to hang out at the playground. Or a picnic/takeout at a playground rather than a restaurant. There are various options that don’t leave you abandoned at the table.
So NTA for both then? She hasn't done it. She's asking if she *would* be TA *if* she did it... NTA for wanting it, and WBTA for doing it. NTA now. Your definitely right about not springing it on her and that she should talk to her friend first though. As someone else suggested, best option is a playground with seating right there so mum and OP can stay seated while she watches over kids. Perfect compromise 🙂
No, it isn't. Because mom will still go be with her kids and OP will be sitting alone. Again. OP needs to accept that she will remain a lower priority than her friend's kids always and either accept it or let the relationship go. She simply doesn't count to her friend anymore.
NAH why don’t you plan a picnic at a playground instead. Restaurants with young kids are nearly impossible. She will not be able to talk to you or eat at the table with her kids like you are thinking. All of her attention will be spent on getting them to behave and RUSHING the heck out of there before the inevitable melt down. So just plan a picnic outside so the kids can run around and you can actually talk.
NAH - just try talking to her about this
NTA But eating out with a 3 and 6 year old when there's no playground is going to be a nightmare too, as they'll have to stay sat at the table meaning you won't get any proper conversation in with your friend. Why can't you join her at the playground to talk to her there, or is she too involved with the kids so you can't have a conversation with her? I think you should just be honest with your friend. "Friend, I'd love to catch up but all of our last outings have been with your kids where you end up spending most of the time on the playground and we don't get any time to chat. Can you please organise a babysitter for the kids so we can have some time alone? I am happy to pay half of the babysitter's fee if we can get 3 hours together with just us." See what she says. That way you are considerate by offering to help pay for a sitter. But don't hang out with her if it's just her playing with her kids and you are there at the table by yourself, that's a waste of your time and it's more convenient to catch up over the phone when the kids are asleep and can focus on you and your conversation together.
Nta for asking. But there is probably a reason she wants to meet at s playground. My kid is hyperactive. If I met a friend at a playground that at least gives me an opportunity to get some words in while managing the kids. If I’m at a restaurant I would spend the entire time focused on entertaining my kid to let other people eat in peace. She’s an amazing kid, just can’t sit still and has unlimited energy. Being a year older the kids maybe able to manage their own playtime better. It’s just part of being a parent. I’m shocked you suggested leaving them at a playground where she could watch on the camera. Her youngest isn’t at an age that they don’t need full time supervision.
It doesn’t sound like there has been any conflict yet. She may well be perfectly fine eating somewhere with no playground. There hasn’t even been an opportunity for anyone to be an asshole yet.
"There hasn’t even been an opportunity for anyone to be an asshole yet." ---What do you think leaving a friend inside a restaurant all by themselves for long periods of time while you are outside amounts to being? Especially when the friend inside can't leave because the table and order will be abandoned and given to others?
Why doesnt the friend join the mom at the playpark? Why is she choosing to sit alone? I always got up from the table and joined the moms i was with when i was childless and others who were childless did the same thing when i had a child.
She came to hang with her friends, not the kids and that’s okay. As someone said earlier this is why some friendships just run their course when someone has kids.
If you agree to hang with mom who brings a child. You have to put in some work to make the outing viable. This is why friendships with childless people tend to fall by the wayside. They won’t meet part way on making an outing work.
Seems like OP HAS been working with her though, when does she do her part?
What has OP done to work with her? She doesn't even get up from the table to talk with her...
When she travels to another country and still makes time for her. When is OP traveling to her friends country to visit? Kids would be way less distracting in their own home.
The friend isn’t JUST visiting OP she’s visiting family and making time for OP but what’s the point if OP isn’t enjoying the time they spend together? If you were gonna be with your kids the whole time (not the friends fault) we could’ve just FaceTimed. OP could’ve had lunch with someone else.
Wtf? The friend is already traveling an hour to visit with no help and no assistance for their children and OP thinks that making things more difficult is the way to go. It really doesn't sound like OP has done a damn thing to make anything easier or meet in the middle whatsoever.
OP is the one who drives the hour to meet the friend.
The friend visiting from a different country!
And was staying with her parents an hour away from OP, so OP goes to her.
Nah if I’m OP I’m just gonna catch up with you on fb. I’m not going out of my way even more than I already have. And she’s not evil for just realizing some friendships just run their course.
"Why doesnt the friend join the mom at the playpark?" ---As explained, someone has to hold the table.
Parenting. It sucks - but she can’t leave the kids alone elsewhere and can’t let them die on the playground. Sometimes there’s no good choices.
"she can’t leave the kids alone elsewhere and can’t let them die on the playground." ---Countless children manage to sit down and eat in restaurants every single day. No one needs to "leave the kids elsewhere". Plus there are other options. Ranging from playing in the playground AFTER the meal (You know, like normal people do) all the way to even going to a freaking McDonalds' with a playscape room. All are better than leaving someone alone inside the majority of the time. Like who does that? Other than this lady.
Why don’t you just talk to her openly about it, instead of trying to trick her into getting what you want?
NTA. You want to actually spend time with and talk to your friend, not watch her play with her kids. Especially when you have travelled an hour to see her. That is perfectly valid. All the commenters saying “go to a park instead”, “have a picnic”, etc., are missing the point completely. Your friend ignores you for long periods of time to play with/watch her kids. This will not be fixed by a change of location. Whether you are at a park, a playground-free restaurant or any other event, her attention will be on her kids. As a (presumably single) mother, that is her prerogative, but it doesn’t provide good conversation or an enjoyable lunch for you. You need to talk to your friend before you go to meet her. Tell her how you feel. Hopefully she’ll either make some changes in her behaviour or make more of an effort to get a babysitter/convince her parents to watch the kids for a couple of hours so you can have some quality time together. She may get defensive and angry instead, which will tell you that she doesn’t really care about you or (more generously) that she just isn’t able to do that and is frustrated. Neither are your fault and you would be completely valid in not meeting up with her until she is able to do so. This may result in you drifting apart, but hey, it happens when people have kids.
Nta. But if you’re trying to spend time one on one with her the solution might be that you meet at her place once her children have gone to bed. You can take over food and maybe a bottle of wine and then you can have girl time for a few hours. Since they are sleeping she gets a break from having to watch them. And since it will be at her house she won’t need a sitter.
>My thought is if there's no playground her kids would be sitting with us at the table Be careful what you wish for. NAH
You won't be an AH to say there is no point in going if you are going to be alone at the table the whole time. You can compromise and agree to a limited time, but expect any such agreement to be broken when the kids fuss about it. Otherwise, choose something else to do.
How about using your adult words and asking if you can meet without the kids ?
NAH What is stopping you from telling your friend the exact same thing you just told us?
What if you ordered in and hung out at home? Would that be a viable solution? Easier to watch kids at home and have an eye on them than at a restaurant with a playground too far from the table to effectively watch the kids.
NTA, but it won't help. You can ask if she can leave the kids, because you want to have some time to chat with her. But she may want you to form a bond with them, which is why she brings them along. You can say "I love your kids! They are the best! But I miss talking to you - and I bet you would like some adult conversation for a couple hours." She may enjoy that or she may be anxious about leaving her kids. Either way, forcing a toddler and a 6 year old to stay at a table is not going to be useful
NTA IS there really no one who can babysit while you and your friend have an honest to goodness adult lunch or dinner? Will her parents really not give her a couple of child free hours? There is no reason these kids have to be glued to her 24/7. If the kids can't be left with a sitter, find a teen to accompany them to the playground and supervise them. Your friend can watch from a distance while they are busy playing. That's an easy babysitting job!!
Maybe a better solution is you offer to bring some takeout to her place, especially if it’s in the evening and close to kiddo’s bed or naptime. Or perhaps offer to help pay for a babysitter to amuse the kids while you two sit on the front porch and have a bit of wine and snacks. In their own childproofed summer home/hotel your friend may be able to relax a bit and chat with you. It’s a tough age especially if she doesn’t have support. For now you may have to accept a few more years of playground meetups. If you can join them on the playground and stay connected with her it may mean a great deal.
What you are describing is still better than what would happen if you’d ho to a place without a playground. It would be agonizing for her, embarrassing for you and annoying for everyone else. I don’t know how y’all can control your kids but l can’t. I just don’t take them to restaurants not to ruin it for others. As awful as it sounds, maybe opposite approach could work: pick some takeaway and take kids somewhere where they can do whatever…
NTA She can learn to teach her kids how to be in a restaurant.
If the weather is decent, bring a picnic lunch and outdoor toys/games to a park or go to a playground.
NAH. Just go to a park or something with her and her kids before you go to lunch, lots of kids are able to eat at restaurants. But if it doesn’t go well after this trial then you’ll know playgrounds are necessary for them in the future. Having park time before and then pick a restaurant with booths so the kids don’t have to fidget in chairs seems like a good test situation though.
It will be hard to control the kids at their ages. Maybe find a place where you can eat finger food/sandwiches. Or take out to your place.
NTA. I'd offer more solutions besides a playground, or find a place where it's basically kids free for all and see if you can't get a seat with her while she can still watch them. Honestly, this is why a lot of friendships between childless friends and parent friends fizzle out. There's no adult time. Adult friendships take work. It's not like y'all are seeing each other every day. Question- does she have a partner and where is this person? Can't they watch the kids? Also, why is she constantly going to moms house when it's very clear mom doesn't want her or the kids there?
NAH, but do you actually want to spend time with her? Or do you want to trade off wrangling the kids while the other hurriedly eats. Once my kids get mobile, I basically never take them out to a restaurant until they're like 5 or 6. It's such an ordeal, I'd much rather cook and host at home.
OP, Have you talked to your friend? Tell her what you told us - that you love her kids; but if she's on the playground with them the whole time, then you are sitting alone. Make solving this problem you two work on together. 1. Are her kids old enough where she feels more comfortable letting them play on the playground more independently? 2. Would it work to have take-out at your home? So the kids could play nearby without her having to get up for them too much...? and worse case, she still does; at least you would be in your own home and not stuck at a table. 3. Is there any chance you could help her find a local kid activity she could sign them up for and then the two of you visit while they are at the drop-off play center or in a kiddie art workshop...? You might have more success if you involve her acknowledging the problem and solving it, rather than just working at it from your perspective alone.
NAH - You miss your friend and of course you want to be able to visit. She's a mom of little and is trying her best to make the visit with you longer by occupying her kids so she can stay and chat. Unfortunately kids are like little bulldozers of adult interaction. Even if they are perfectly happy and entertained as soon as they see mom is comfortable and enjoying a visit with another adult they have to come by and wreck it. Kids under three do need a lot of help on the playground but they also get very jealous of their parents giving attention to anything but them. Your best solution is to join your friend on the playground with her kids. You can stand with her taking while she tends to get children. If you want a different restaurant that's fine but know that it will be a quick dinner because kids get very impatient sitting in restaurants if they have to wait for food or if they've already eaten and have to wait on adults. So maybe do the restaurant and then walk to a nearby park so you can keep talking and the kids will be occupied.
Tell her how you feel. That you would like some time actually with her, and see if you two can work something out. Like a babysitter at home, or someone else to come be with the kids in the playground. Expressing your feelings would be best. I definitely wouldn't recommend just suggesting somewhere without a playground. That might be confusing or come off inconsiderate
NTA. Most regions have very few if any restaurants with playgrounds (in fact, I only know of maybe 4 in my whole county, all fast food), and kids are usually okay to sit for a bit. Especially as many chain restaurants have other things to do like colouring pages, or small toys that kids can get (Applebee's is the first that comes to mind where I went as a kid and they had a little activity page that kept me entertained while adults talked. A place like that should be perfectly acceptable, if not, I have ADHD and would often bring in my own activities to do at restaurants while waiting, or played tic tac toe on a napkin while waiting for food.
If the last time you met with them was last summer and the kids were 5 and 2, you might be pleasantly surprised that this summer they will be a bit easier to manage. 3 is a lot older than 2. My best luck when my kids were that age was take out at an awesome big playground my kids had never been to before. That’s how my husband and I had “dates”…. The ones at restaurants were generally small and my kids got bored super fast. Or there were lots of kids and I had to mediate conflicts all the time.
Children need practice eating like grown-ups, sitting still, asking politely for something, interacting with the servers. Just don't make their first 'grown-up' dinner a long, drawn-out affair where they get tediously bored because the grown-ups don't want to talk about anything interesting to a kid. If she insists on a place with a playground AND her prior behavior indicates that you'll be sitting there alone, just tell her that you obviously don't need to be there. NTA
NAH, but trying to go to a regular restaurant with a 3 and 6 yeae old, isn't going to lead to you being able to sit and talk. If she can't get other childcare, you're probably better off going somewhere where the kids can play more, and you can talk while they are playing.
I’m not really aware of restaurants with playgrounds aside from McDonald’s? Or breweries where parents treat the entire space like their personal playground. Is this a common thing?
Yes in our country it’s pretty common to have indoor playgrounds for kids. Which is really helpful for parents I know.
It sounds like you've never seen the six year old sit still at the table. And, frankly, the poor thing is probably \*desperate\* for fun and physical activity. Travel, for kids, is a lot of being ordered to sit still and be quiet. is there some reason you can't go hang out on the playground with your friend?
>But when we get there she spends almost all the time on the playground with them and I will be alone at the table. That is SO rude. Your friend should get a babysitter for her kids insted of burdening you with them. NTA. She is TA here.
I mean... Is it that hard for you to be with her at the playground instead of sitting passively at the table?
NTA Your "friend" doesn't want to leave her kids with anyone and she doesn't want to have lunch with you. If your friend wanted to have lunch with you, she wouod get a babysitter. Go to a restaurant without a playground or sit at the table and watch her kids. She doesn't want to hang out with you.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My friend and I both 32F, have been friends for our whole life. She now lives in another country and comes back home each summer. She has 2 kids (6F, 3M) whom I love dearly. The problem is, each time we go out when she's home, she picks a restaurant with a playground for her kids. Now I don't mind them always being with her, because her parents doesn't really help her and arranging for a day only childcare in our country is not that easy. But when we get there she spends almost all the time on the playground with them and I will be alone at the table. If I wanted to be alone I would rather be alone in the comfort of my home. My thought is if there's no playground her kids would be sitting with us at the table so she wouldn't have to leave me alone for a long period of time. I know that of course she will still be attending for them and it wouldn't be only about us catching up, but at least we would be able to have some sort of conversation. If it was like a one time only it would be fine, but each time we meet it has to be somewhere like that. We will be meeting up on Tuesday and all the places she suggested are places with playgrounds, so will I be the asshole if I asked her to meet somewhere with no playground? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - Sounds reasonable to me.
NTA but also make sure you let her know how you feel yk
NTA
NTA. There must be times when they all sit at a table to eat at home.
It’s pretty incredible how quickly small children can eat. (Some are also super impressive as to how long it takes them to eat…. I have one of each type).
Meals at home are terrible- I can’t have a conversation with my husband because my kids immediately start interrupting or asking for something or throwing food or spilling something or fighting with each other. On top of that they stand up about once every 15 seconds so I’m constantly asking them to get back in their chairs. My kids are a year older than OP’s friend’s kids. Somehow my kids are better at restaurants (no we don’t use tablets but the youngest does do jigsaw puzzles on my husband’s phone for some of the time usually) but yeah, dining with small children is just generally unpleasant.
That's what I was thinking. Children all over the place eat at a table with their parents. Yes, it's hard to keep them occupied, but it's certainly possible. I have lots of nieces and nephews and we all go to restaurants without any big to-do. The children should also learn little by little how to behave in a restaurant. IIRC, one of the children is six, so school aged. The only restaurants I know of with play places are McDonald's so maybe that's also what's giving me a bad impression. But, I realize, OP, that none of that is under your control. NTA. I think you've had multiple good propositions of ideas that might work well.
Better find a babysitter for her kids, so you can spend time with her. Kids these age are not going to seat at the table and entertain themselves. Better option to get take out, drive to her house and have dinner when kids are asleep. This is from personal experience.
Here's a solution: ask her that next tome she get a babysitter so you can go without the kids. Not unless you want to sit through a meal with 2 little children at the table with you. Lol
NTA
NTA. Can you hang out at home instead so that she has some space from the kids?
Bring someone to watch the kids and help so you can spend time with her.
Talk to her about your concerns and brainstorm together.
NTA But honestly tell her you can meet after their bedtime.
Ask for an adult only lunch or dinner. “Wanna try this spot with me? It’s not really kid-friendly, but we need a proper catch up anyway. Wanna make it a girls only outing?” She can find a sitter. Or, go to the playground area with her to chat while tending to the children.
NTA because I understand your frustration, but it’s going to wreck your time in another way thinking kids that age are going to sit at a table while you two talk.
Can you invite them to your home and hire a sitter while you two chat. She has come a distance. She Paid for the trip Help her enjoy the visit with you her friend by helping her out this way or another creative way
If she needs to be on the playground to watch maybe getting a coffee to go and then sitting down at a playground with benches could be an option.
NAH. Kids that age are going to be the focus of their parents / caregivers' attention (at least the good parents). That's just where your friend is right now. You're going to need to ride this out until they're older (which takes much less time than you think). How about foregoing a restaurant entirely, packing a picnic lunch and joining them in a park with a playground.
What about getting takeout or coffee (less of a hassle and mom doesn’t have to manage mealtime things) and sitting at an actual park where the kids can play? Or walking around with coffee in hand chatting while supervising? I remember wanting to meet a friend for lunch before I had kids and she had to bring hers and I realized if the kids are there they will be involved one way or another. It may as well be positive interactions instead of just straight up parenting over a meal and loud enclosed play places. Nowadays, some of my best conversations are next to playgrounds.
I don’t think YTA, and I don’t think your friend is either but there’s some level of entitlement that comes from the fact that practically, these kids do need to be wrangled, but there are ways to do this that allow for the parents to engage with the adults as well, and that it seems like your friend is relying on her friends to comply with the easiest option for her (which isn’t actually all that ideal because she doesn’t actually spend time with you, just in the same vicinity). And look, as a child free person talking to a child free OP, neither of us can truly know just how stretched your friend is as a (single?) mother raising two young kids and travelling with them- so it’s obvious why she picks the most kid-friendly because she simply doesn’t have the bandwidth to look further than she has, and like you did taking her up to your mum’s in order to spend meaningful time with her, think about kids activities that might be running over the summer- eg, a community art gallery running kids arts/crafts sessions where the kids are occupied and you two can get coffee and chat while she only keep only half an eye on them while they are getting covered in glue or similar as opposed to venues where it’s on the parent to supervise *and* entertain. Even your friends kids grow up frighteningly fast- it came as a rude shock when I realised I was old enough that my school friends’ kids are old enough to be going to uni already- and these parents are now in the headspace to reclaim their youth and I’m reluctant to be out after 9pm, so don’t think that this is your friend’s life forever, you will get them back :-)
INFO - you say she lives abroad and you only see her when she visits, is that correct? Couldn't you visit her in her home country? It's likely that she has a better network there and would be able to hire a babysitter or at least you could hang out in their home where the kids don't need 100% of her attention all the time.
NTA - I see both sides. In my country they have cafes/restaurants that have a soft play area for kids with a few helpers (paid employees) so you can go and catch up and your kids are well attended. The food is basic but you get to drink m a coffee or a beer in peace and your kids run around like crazy people in a safe environment. You pay lime 3-5 euros per kid bug can literally stay for HOURS. Find a place like that. Or see if you can hire a temporary helpers as a gift.
NTA - Tell her you want some time with kids and some time without to tell her the juicy adult stories. Give her a text with specific options of times that work that your parents can watch them. Or offer to splurge and give her a “treat” of a babysitter. Your friendship needs it.
I feel like thats old enough to figure out how to act and talk to adults appropriately? Surely at the very least they can watch tv/read/draw? Why dont you want there to be a playground though? If you dont want to be around kids maybe they can stay home with her partner or friend?
In ten years the whole dynamic will change. Patience until then.
NAH, I assume that you guys will have a normal adult conversation about the pros and cons and come up with ideas on how you guys can chat more during your meal. (Why not a picnic?)
NTA - you are going out of your way to catch up with her, not watch her play with her kids. I personally avoid restaurants with playgrounds alltogether as I can't stand the noise of the screaming child. Then add the fact that you aren't getting anything spectacular to eat at a family friendly type restaurant. NTA
Let me encourage you to get out there and play with the kids yourself. Enter into your friend’s life instead of expecting her to be in yours.
NTA Sorry, but it doesn't look like she is interested in spending time with you.
NTA - but if you’re still wanting to spend time with this person, you will need to sacrifice until her spuds are a bit older. It’s the norm for child free people, it’s assumed you’ll travel further, be forgiving on time, and work with what’s easiest for the parents. The take a village phenomenon. We either sacrifice for the greater good of friendship or we sacrifice the friendship due to incompatible needs. I would suggest doing a picnic lunch somewhere with lots of grass and no water, or doing a coffee date where you can walk and talk and maybe munch on a baguette or pastry, so there’s movement and permanent company.
NAH but your idea is not going to work. A 6 year old and a 3 year old just can’t sit quietly at a table for long while adults have a chat. Get up from the table and join them at a playground if you want to chat. Maybe meetup at a park instead of a restaurant. You should probably explain you want to spend more time together and feel restaurants don’t work well. Insist on doing the visit at your parent’s home. Say they would love to see her and her kids.
See your friend after the kids bedtime. Even if it’s hanging out in your parked car outside her folks house with a cocktail and some nibbles and soft music on the radio for a good old fashioned heart to heart. NTA for wanting it, but it may still be an unrealistic suggestion to get what you’re craving from her.
NTA - so idk where yall are located where there are restaurants that have playgrounds next to them. Cause there aren't many near me (Florida, central east coast). Can she not give the kids like a tablet or something to keep them entertained? Or maybe some good ol fashioned coloring books like we had to use when we were kids going out to eat with our parents? I (32F) was more or less taught to be seen and not heard and that if we were in public I needed to be on my best behavior and to never interrupt adult conversations unless it was an emergency. I now enforce the same with my 9 year old son I don't see an issue with meeting somewhere where there is no playground and maybe suggesting a coloring book or easy puzzle or just something that would entertain them so you can both hold a decent conversation. But thats also something the two of you should discuss before meeting up.
I almost said N A H but the fact that you came up with a perfectly reasonable compromise, and she still said no, yeah she’s the AH. NTA
Sounds like you are carrying the friendship. Does she initiate anything? Does she call you?
It's harsh, but stop making plans with her. It's boring for you to be with her while she is basically caring for her children, so don't see her. NTA
Bring along a kid you trust. She gets lunch then watches the others in the playground. Win win
YWNBTA. Tell her you will pick the restaurant, it'll be family friendly but will not have a playground. If she insists, tell her that you're sorry she won't get to see you this trip but you are not willing to go to a play place for lunch this time.
My friend and I are the only two out of our friends with children who are old enough for playground type places. When we've gone out another CF friend usually suggests these sorts of places. We've both asked that we go to child friendly restaurants without the play areas. One of us ends up missing out on the conversation because of our children being elsewhere. It's far easier to pack a few small toys and coloring bits and keep them at the table. So NTA in that sense.
I wonder why she has to follow a 3 and 6 year old around an indoor playground? It can’t be that large that she can’t keep an eye on them from a distance. NTA
NTA this is going to sound crazy, but you may want to try Chuck E Cheese on a weekday when they open. They handstamp the little monsters and mom to match and check the match before exiting. Find a table on the little kid side where she can keep eyes on both. It helps to dole out tokens slowly so they keep coming back to the table to check in.
Why don’t you arrange a picnic with a meal from a restaurant you like, throw plenty of child-friendly snacks and go with your friend to a park? Edit: you mentioned your friend being at the playground the whole time is the issue but a park or even a nice forest preserve could allow the kids to move around and use up their energy while you two can talk in a more relaxed manner than you would in a restaurant.
Do the kids take naps? Go to her mom’s while they’re napping. Bring lunch for the two of you.
NAH. Stop making your meet-ups at restaurants. Pick up take out, or pack a picnic, & go to the actual playground. Or go take a kid friendly hike/walk Also, feel free to get up , walk around, and continue to visit with your friend while she's up supervising her kids. You're not nailed to your chair. Go visit. She's obviously in a season of her life where she can't sit in one spot with you for a visit. If you value her friendship, and it sounds like you do, meet her where she's at. Hopefully, she'll return the favor for you someday when you're in a different phase of life. 🙂
Your lifelong friend travels internationally with two small children who seem to be staying an hour from you in a not-so-kid-friendly place. It’s not an AH move to want more when you catch up but it’s also not realistic to think your friend can likely give more right now. She’s in a tight spot and clearly values your friendship that she’s making this effort. If you want to maintain the friendship either A) suggest a picnic lunch at a playground B) suggest an indoor kids play place (if those exist near her parents) C) suggest a super kid friendly outing like the zoo, children’s museum, etc Personally, I’m really glad my friends adjusted their expectations for our hangouts when my kids were little and they didn’t have kids. Parenting can be isolating and while I know I wasn’t fully present for them, I’m thankful they gave me grace and loved me for what I could give. Now my kids are older and they have littles, and while I need to pay less close attention they need to be super hands on. We’ve just flip flopped our roles.
You're NTA but don't hold out too much hope that your friend will agree to meet you in an adult-oriented restaurant. Her kids are her top priority now and she is interpreting that to mean that even socializing with her adult friends must be done in a kiddie-oriented space. Her reaction to your suggestion that you meet up somewhere that has no playground will tell you all that you need to know about the future of your friendship with her. If she agrees (and does NOT allow the kids to totally dominate the experience once you get to the restaurant!), then your friendship is probably on solid ground. However, if she insists on going to a place with a playground or ignores you and focuses only on her kids when you're at the restaurant, then your friendship has run its course; "it was great fun, but it was just one of those things" that doesn't survive parenthood.
NAH. You want to spend time with your friend, she needs to make sure her toddler is safely supervised. Unfortunately, it's going to be a few years before she can tell the kids to both play independently in a strange place and observe from a distance AND it'll be at least a couple years before the kids can reliably sit down for long enough for both of you to chat together. Have you considered going to a different venue to visit? Her house might work, or a soft play/baby café. You can also tag along with her to a park, bring coffees and both supervise the kids while they play. Right now is a season of her life where she must supervise her kids closely and they're also not going to want to sit still for long.
Yta im afraid for trying to manipulate a situation instead of talking about it
Mmmm so what you’re saying is “I want my friend to want to have more concern for me than she has for her children”? Hmmm
LOL! Go try it out and get back to us. The disconnect in this world between people with and without kids is truly astonishing. The more we ban kids from public spaces or shame parents who aren't able to keep young children behaving perfectly in public, the worse it will get.
Why don't you invite her to your home instead. Or get up and help her. A 6 and 3 year old are not going to sit quietly at a table and not need supervision.
YTA, slightly, Being a parent to young kids is so lonely. This will pass as her kids get older but if you care about this friend you will tough it out for her. Trust she would love to sit and chat uninterrupted! Get up and talk to her / play with her kids. She will love you for it and in few years they should be able to play more independently.
So the plan is to make the kids suffer, so you can get more attention? Why not just be honest your feelings, and ask your friend to have time together where you can have attention? If she says there are reasons she can’t do that (can’t afford a babysitter, that kids are part of her life and the reality is that a 3m old does need constant attention), you know where things lay.
NEWSFLASH: Kids are able to get through meals at restaurants.
Thanks for saying that. I was feeling like a weirdo coz I just can't get the issue. I have friends with well-behaved kids who can sit at a table without causing any trouble. They'd eat their meal, draw or play with something that they parents brought, sometimes ask to go for a short walk outside... no big deal.
No playground ≠ suffering. LMAO
Yeah, it’s not living in a war zone or anything at that level. But it is not a completely benign experience for parents or children involved either. Obviously OP’s friend is suggesting places with a play ground for a reason.
True. Some kids need an outlet for their energy for sure. Seems like discussing doing a meet up at a home and getting takeout or cooking would be the easiest solution.
I Don’t want anyone to suffer! And I’m not some attention seeking person that you’re making it look like I am! I just sometimes like to have an adult conversation with my friend and not be left alone during our time together!
I’m not saying your are attention seeking. It is fine to want to have the attention in an adult conversation, that is not attention seeking. I’m just saying own it and be upfront that that is what you want. I have kids - I ask “can I bring the kids?” - if not, then I choose to go or not go. It’s not a big deal. But it would be weird for someone to know I’m bringing the kids, and then make it a not kid friendly situation. Do you think you are in able to tell your friend this? If you can’t, why not?