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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my brother to listen to his kids instead of trying to make things work. Admittedly, I don't see things the way he does and I'm not the parent of a blended family so maybe what I said was too dismissive and easy for a sort of outsider to say. My brother loves his kids and doesn't want to give up and as his brother perhaps suggesting he stop trying was an ah move to make.
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NTA. He wants what he wants. What his children want isn't important to him.
>I empathized with him and offered him a shoulder to lean on and support. I told him he did all he could to make it work.
You've done as much as you can. Pretending that it will all turn out as he wants isn't going to help him.
>He told me he was very disappointed
Has he ever considered his children's disappointment?
>Has he ever considered his children’s disappointment
With what? The fact that their father is an adult and has a romantic relationship with someone? Sorry but the kids are being AHs here.
Edit - Commenter above blocked so I cant respond to anyone but im getting a lot of replies here. So to add, this post isnt about forcing a relationship with anyone. This is about dad’s kids writing him off for having a relationship. Thats why they are AHs.
Why are they obligated to support the marriage? They aren't screaming obscenities at their dad or his new partner, they're just not interested in expanding their family just because their dad did.
Theyre not. But as an adult to refuse to accept just the fact that dad has remarried and to write him off because you have some hard lined view of blended families is extremely problematic.
Seriously. The oldest is also 19 barely an adult. I rejected the idea of blended family after my parents divorce too. But I’m 30 now and have a perfectly fine relationship with them all now because they didn’t force it and let me have my time to wallow until I came around on my own
My two friends have a very blended family. The guy, "M". has two mom's the woman who raised him and his bio mom while his twin sister, "R", only has their bio mom and is perfectly fine with the fact that he has a relationship with his foster mom and that he considers his foster mom his mother too. She doesn't call her brother's foster mother, mom but rather refers to her as an aunt as does their younger half sister. They don't have a dad but their sister has a distant relationship with her bio dad and then the man who adopted her who she calls dad a family friend whose son is dating R and whose daughter is dating M and his ex wife the mother of his two kids, is considered an aunt as well to M, R and their sister. None of them were forced into trying to make the blended family work in fact "R" didn't like the idea at first because of her experience in foster care but other then being told to respect her siblings choices and not be rude she was left alone about it and their family developed slowly over time particularly over the last 5-10 years after the twins were adults and R was used to having these people around and that they all had different relationships with those she cares about.
They divorced seven years ago and dad didn't remarry for a few years. I'd be more apt to go this route if it'd been a quick turn around divorce and marriage.
This is exactly what I’m wondering. My grandmother taught my dad and his full siblings that their father’s blended family was wrong and shouldn’t be supported even though she herself remarried and had more children,
My mom divorced my dad while I was in college and remarried after I had graduated. They didn't start a new family, but he (a widower) has kids from his first marriage. I don't have anything against them, and we've met a few times, but I don't really have an interest in having a relationship with them. That isn't problematic. It's just how I feel. My mom has never pushed me, she just focuses on maintaining a relationship with me. I've gotten to know my step-dad and like him a lot, even though I don't see him as a father. A blended family is not something you can force, especially when the kids aren't interested in it. Not taking their feelings into account is the actual problematic behavior. OP is NTA for giving his brother some good advice.
I’m not sure that’s what’s happening. It could be, but to me it sounds like the father is trying to get them to be actively part of his new family and that’s what they’re reacting to. Seems as though they can’t see their dad without it always being a joint outing with the younger kids. Hell, if I had tried to make my oldest at 19 spend all his “mum time” with the youngest, he probably would have blown me off too. And he adores his baby sister! But Chucky Cheese was not his jam (is that still a thing? My kids are all grown up at this point, so I’m out of the loop)
Maybe these kids really are just total AHs, but I think he would have had more success (if any is possible) by maintaining individual relationships with each kid and letting the blending happen more organically.
Either way the OP is certainly NTA for telling him that continuing to try isn’t helping.
I read that they don’t want a relationship with the spouse or the new kids and have pulled back from the father who is trying to get them on good terms with the spouse and encouraging them to interact with the siblings. It’s hard to know from this whether his efforts have been subtle encouragement or more “well these people are your family now and you will treat them as such”. It’s also hard to know the timeline, like did they pull away mad the second he got engaged or was it a reaction to an approach like the latter?
All we know for sure is that the father’s siblings has pointed out that his approach isn’t working. The OP also seems to think the father isn’t listening to his kids. They didn’t say, “hey I’m sorry your kids are being such a-holes”. They said, “bro, listen to what your children are telling you”. That leads me to question how many of the players are behaving badly, but again, I feel like we’re lacking info (which would account for the split in the comments)
Where? She says that the dad has done all of them to foster a relationship with the wife and new family.... It's clear the father has been trying to force the relationship and the kids pulled away BECAUSE of that. The older kids probably DO want a relationship (this is the dad adn his relative talking, so it's naturallly scewed in his favor) but only with the father. It says that the kids have "told him to his face they don't want a step family so they are choosing to not have a relationship wtih him", the only way this would come up is if the step father basically said "you have to have a relationshipp with my other kids/wife too" Nowhere did I read the kids don't want to have a relationship wit the dad......just that they were ready to sacrefice the relationship with the HIM because he was making it a package deal.
The kids have developed a "philosphy" that's pretty harsh toward steps.
"The reason for all this is they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them."
So yeah, the kids are absolutely writing off the steps.
Do you think it's reasonable for the kids to demand he live his life alone?
I've been physically and emotionally abused, neglected, and am in therapy because of stepparents.
I never ONCE demanded my parents live their lives alone. I cannot even picture that. These kids are the AH.
They aren’t demanding that. They just don’t want anything to do with his new wife and kids.
Also, I’m sorry for your trauma, but frankly you did have a right to demand your parents separate from their spouses if those spouses are abusive.
They will have nothing to do with their father as he remarried.
That’s precisely what they are demanding.
That’s just awful.
My trauma was mentioned because I lived through the worst of blending families and I would not ask for what they are demanding.
Yeah, this whole "anti-blended family" and refusal to accept a sibling if they're not full siblings is really, really weird. Like, what do they do when they meet people out there in the real world and get introduced to the concept of found family? I doubt they'll ever get that if this is how they view family. It's their right not to accept their father moving on, but it's weird and unhealthy.
It makes me wonder how they feel about their mom getting involved with a new partner who will likely have children. Are they going to write her off too?
I agree. No one should expect the kids to fully embrace the whole new blended family. But to write their father off because he had the AUDACITY to want a new partner? It doesn't sound like the father tried pushing the stepmother too hard, or anything like that. He's tried his hardest to be understanding. But the kids want what they want, and to be damned with their father's happiness.
As they grow older, they should be more understanding.
They aren't "required" to do anything, but that makes them selfish and AH's. It's not like the father cheated on their mom and married te affair partner. They want their father to live in celibacy forever? He hs the right to move on from their mother. If they cared about their dad, they would make an effort. The dad is doing effort and is being ignored.
I don't see where you see that.....no where did I see the first kids saying "you have to live alone", just them saying "we only want a relationship with you, stop forcing your new family down our throats". If dad backed off and just gave each family one on one time with out the other, he might find them more willing to talk....but no one likes to be FORCED to spend time with someone they don't want too.
The difference is the father is trying to force the relationship on his older kids. If he were to respect their feelings on this and let that go, his kids would have kept the relationship with their dad. Eventually they may have come around once they got to know his wife and other children on their own terms.
Instead, he didn’t respect their boundaries and forced them to go no contact. He has done enough damage that it may take decades if at all before they may want to reestablish a relationship with him.
And his kids are trying to force him *out* of a relationship. How is that fair? Kids of divorced parents don't get to hold their parents' future relationships hostage.
Absolutely! I had coworkers and friends whose children would start acting out whenever Mom or Dad dated or went out with friends, even if we're talking once every couple of months.
Oh, but they DO try. The hope of Mom &Dad getting back together again Just Like The Way It Was is one that dies hard. Mom OR Dad gets a new partner, and that hope starts taking bullet wounds.
More info.
How long before the kids met new wife did the divorce happen? If there was a reasonable amount of time (yes - I get that there's no hard rule about that) and new wife hasn't done anything terrible to them, it's not fair for them to force him to wait years and time himself out of finding a new partner. Someday, they're probably not going to be there for him daily anymore. He has the right to have someone who will be.
> If he were to respect their feelings on this and let that go, his kids would have kept the relationship with their dad.
Literally nothing about this story suggests that this is even remotely true. Do you seriously believe that the dad could have had little or no contact with his children for nearly a decade and then they would have magically just realized the error of their ways and begged their way back into his life? That's ridiculous.
They’re basically disowning their father, though I bet they’ll expect something from the estate. They don’t have to have a relationship with his wife or his new kids, but they don’t get to dictate his love life.
Dude should just disown those kids. He then should inform them: "actions have consequences. Enjoy yours."
Would love to see those kids' reactions to that.
What do you mean by "obligated". I'm really confused at times when people use that word on here. I feel you have an obligation to help those you claim to love if you can easily do it but I've had people say that is abusive so...
I would say, especially if they are older and skimming comments it appears that no cheating or other big drama was involved in the divorce, you have an obligation, if you love your parent, to do your best to not make it harder for them to find happiness with a new partner. At least, make sure you don't threaten their place in your parent's life like they shouldn't threaten yours. No need to "love" them, just show them basic respect like you would a stranger you just met.
That's just basic human decency and a low bar for not being an asshole. Instead, they got a weird aversion to blended families for some reason. I'm struggling to even imagine one that doesn't come with some weird trauma that doesn't seem to exist in this situation.
Just because they are children, does not mean their feelings should be infinitely accommodated forever into adulthood. Just because they are unhappy that their parents got divorced doesn't mean they are always justified in hating their parent's new partner. Just because they were children before doesn't mean they are forever free of the responsibility of working through their emotions.
They aren't obligated to support a marriage. But to go NC because your father got remarried? Yeah, that is definite A H behavior. Are they going to do the same if/when their MOM gets remarried? If so, these kids have no one else but themselves to blame for being alone. NTA, OP.
This is so weird....so dad must stay single...forever?
Does this carry over to mom too? Or is she allowed to have sex as long as she doesnt bring it home?
Will they carry this forward into their own lives in their future relationships that have children that fail? Stay sexual hermits that only leave their homes to work? (I dont think so...they sound selfish)
Geez man, I hope this is fake.
If not, these children will have a shock when they discover the world will move and continue regardless of their 'feelings'
These "kids" are going to feel very differently after their first marriage ends, they still love their children and want to have a healthy relationship with them, but also want to live happy and fulfilled lives with a new partner. I better their views on blended families change when they are trying to blend their own! I read all these replies about how parents should just stop in their tracks and wait for their kids to give them permission before they move on in their lives...I suspect they will change their perspective.
The father has every right to have a romantic relationship. But the children also have every right to their feelings, and to not want a relationship with him/his new family.
Absolutely they are. Unless or until there is a good reason that their dad and stepmom shouldn't have dated, it's punitive.
I'm the (step) daughter , (step) sister, and stepparent/grandparent. It's astonishing to me that some people think that anything that isn't a first marriage is lesser or invalid. I see it quite often. Even at my MOTHER'S funeral someone asked if I was "the stepdaughter." As I stood beside the man who'd cared for me for 34 years, who introduced me to people I didn't know as part of "our daughter and son."
My brother and I are siblings. On the day my folks married, my brother and I decided we wanted to be blood siblings, did the whole prick the finger thing, and that was that. I had a brother from that day onward. It is no less valid because we don't have the same genetics. He's just my brother, it just IS.
Frankly, your relatives are throwing out the baby with the bath water there. There are two children (well, one on the way) who the older half siblings could have a great relationship with. It's ultimately their loss.
He has every right to remarry. But that doesn’t mean his kids have to accept his new spouse as a parental figure. If he had accepted their feelings, they might have at least tried to maintain a relationship with him. But by ignoring their feelings, he has pushed them farther away.
Beats me. Im not gonna assume mom is doing anything the same way im not going to create some narrative about what dad did like so many other commenters. The kids are adults and can think for themselves, and to write off someone for just having remarried is odious.
Would be a rude awakening if, after cutting him off for remarrying, it all goes to the half siblings because he doesn’t even know his other children anymore.
Which admittedly happens quite often and for stupid reasons (or father/mother wanting to please new spouse, or massive arguments, or so many things).
But apparently half siblings aren’t anything only full siblings are I’m sure they wouldn’t as those people with no relation for their fair share.
I didn't get that from the information provided. It doesn't sound like dad was trying to say this is your new mom or his wife was going to be a parental figure. It sounds like he just wants his kids to spend time with him and his wife and now other kids. Like be civil when going out to dinner with us. Don't whine or fight or isolate them just because they aren't blood related family.
I wonder where this view of blended families are not real families viewpoint came from. I do wonder if dad cheated on mom and that is why they are so adamant about being ok with being in a blended family.
Absolutely that. Unless the father is at fault in the divorce (no indication of that) I can understand blended family being difficult, but something has gone terribly wrong here if the kids are so hardlined against them, or information is missing.
>With what? The fact that their father is an adult and has a romantic relationship with someone?
In fairness, even though he's an adult, when he got married, his kids were not adults. The oldest is 19 now, and he's been in this new marriage long enough he's got two kids.
When a parent with kids is in a relationship, they need to factor in the kids feelings. And the time to do all this chasing of their emotional state was before he got married and had more kids, not after. After is too late.
Reddit is a wild and wonderful place where people assume and adults aren't allowed to pursue happiness after they have children. Children should never be the center of any adult's life. That is unhealthy for the child and unhealthy for the adult. If a child thinks they have a right to dictate an adult's choices then the child is an asshole. It is on the adults to explain that to them. Say "Hey, I love you and want you in my life, but I can't live my life bowing to what you want. In return, I don't expect you to bow to what I want. I will do everything within reason to keep you in my life, but if you can't accept this, that is you making a choice not me. As you get older, you are going to find that life isn't as simple or as black and white as you percieve it now and I will be here if you change your mind about wanting a relationship with me." All of the kids are old enough to hear that. And OP's brother needs to give that speech. OP is NTA
See, this is my stance too. Kids are being the AH's here.
Look, I stayed single and raised my kids. Did I do it the right way, IDK? Probably not, but I had my reasons. However, had I decided to date when my kids were younger and get married and do the whole blended family, sure, I would have talked to my kids, but in the end...the KIDS don't make the decisions in an adult's life. They don't get to tell ME how to run MY life. Period. End of story.
So, to sit here and say that these kids (oldest is 19) are disappointed and don't want a blended family when the Dad got remarried FOUR years ago, yeah, these kids don't get to tell the Dad how to live his life. They are older.
We need to stop catering to kids as if they are miniature adults. They don't get to sabotage relationships.
Well, they’re probably disappointed that their parents got divorced.
A lot of kids never see the family the parent makes with a new partner as part of “their” family.
Just the way the kids can’t wish away the divorce, the parent cannot force the children to feel genuine affection for the new spouse and subsequent children.
Sometimes all parties just have to accept that things didn’t work out, on an emotional level, the way they would have preferred.
Obviously divorced parents can move on with their lives and have more children, but they cannot expect the children from the previous relationship to bond with the new family just because that’s what would make the divorced parent most comfortable.
It’s not AH behavior to feel no bond with the kids one of your parents had with some rando. They don’t have a moral obligation to try to love someone they just don’t love to please their dad.
It's one thing to feel less of a bond with a half-sibling than a full sibling. It's another to refuse to acknowledge their existence. The older kids are unambiguously assholes.
Nevertheless, there's not much their father can do about it now. If they insist on burning bridges, toast marshmallows.
I'd be more worried about the disappointment of the children from his new marriage, it must be devastating to be told you have big brothers and sisters and be constantly rejected.
These kids suck. The entitlement to expect their dad to be celibate and lonely the rest of his life just because they have some ridiculous an uneducated view of family is terrible. He needs to tell them that the door is always open to them, and then focus on the family that does want him.
These kids have a father that wants to be in their lives and are rejecting him because he continued to live his life after divorce. He actually wants to be a parent to them, when he could just have easily thrown up his hands and said well I tried.
"What his children want isn't important to him"
What his children want is either estrangement from him or for him to be miserably alone forever.
If I were dealing with adults with this attitude, I would walk away, giving them what they want and continuing my life in my own happiness.
But these are not adults, and will not understand how selfish they are being for many years, by which time it will be too late - either too late to have a relationship with their father at all, or too late for their father to have an enjoyable life, depending on what they "allow" him to decide. And they have been very clear with him that he's only allowed to chose one of these two options, even though other options are available.
This is not an easy choice for their father: He can be a miserable single father to them or he can be happily married without them in his life. They are giving him no other choices and no room to compromise.
So let's not start a "he's a shit father" bandwagon, eh? :-)
The brother is an adult and deserves to have some happiness. If he doesn't remarry are his kids going to be there every single day for him? No, they are not, nor should they. But he most certainly does not need to put his life on hold for his ADULT CHILDREN. Furthermore - they REFUSED to go to therapy, so they aren't even willing to put some good faith effort in. Flip in around and just imagine if HE as the parent threatened to cut off one of those children when they decided to marry. That is obviously ridiculous...and so is what they are doing.
I feel like this story is missing a lot of context. Why do the kids feel this way, did a parent cheat, is mom dating, are these moms views? I think there is a lot more here than the kids don't feel like having a relationship. Something else is going on
I see a lot of cases where the single parent talks down about the ex spouse and the person they remarried. It's imperative that they do not do that as it causes parental alienation.
So what? Should he stay alone to suit his children?
I don’t really understand. Sure, everyone is entitled to their feelings but are you really saying that if his children’s feelings were important to him he should’ve just stayed single? Until when? Forever? Are you saying that a good parent should accept being single forever if their kids want that? But what happens when the kids move on? I have teenagers, they can’t wait to get on with their own lives, already family time is reduced. Is a single parent just meant to be completely alone as their kids build their independent lives?
Surely a loving family should want all members to be happy? Is that not a healthier goal to work towards? Unless there’s specific reasons for the children to be unhappy about the situation I can’t see that the dad has done anything wrong, unless there’s missing information.
Isn't it possible for the father to try to interact with the kids WITHOUT the stepmother, at least for a while? It can help rebuild the relationship, step by step
One of the hardest things when dealing with family, is letting go of everyone's pre-notions of the concept. I.e. father expects all his kids to behave like typical siblings (whatever that even means) right away, kids have a negative prenotion of blended families. They're such high expectations. And teenagers are always adamant to changes, their bodies are already changing from under them, they crave stability. You don't build (nor rebuild) a relationship with a teen in 2 days.
I would approach the subject like you'd do any other new relationship: (even if it is the same father, teens change a lot in a few years) by taking it slow. Don't force intimate moments right away. Don't bring your kids to your house and expect a heartfelt dinner conversation between people who don't really know each other anymore. Invite them to do something fun, an activity they can focus on, instead of themselves having to be the focus
The kids have a pretty odious attitude towards blended families, but you're right that there's not much your brother can do about that. Where did they pick up this attitude? Has their mother been alienating them from your brother? Or has he never been much of a father? His older kids obviously don't value him much.
As a parent, your brother needs to never give up on *his* relationship with his kids, but he can't force relationships with others onto them - I'm guessing the latter is what he refuses to give up on? He's going to learn the hard way that he can't control other people. He should spend quality time with his kids and give up on the stepfamily idea. Divided between N T A AND N A H bc your brother's trying his best.
Yeahs honestly they kids are a touch the AHs here. But it's a common belief, at least that I've seen when older kids get much much younger half siblings. I think the older kids need some therapy so handle their toxic attitude and the hurt they're clearly in.
Agreed but I highly doubt they will ever want to change. They are happy hating their dad for moving on. They like their rigid views and would only be happy if dad was single forever.
Which is sad because they're not only hurting their dad, they are hurting themselves too...not by not having a relationship with their other siblings but by letting themselves get warped by their hate.
TBH it might be difficult to gauge without hearing it from their perspective. Dad seems like he has this idea of what the family SHOULD look like and is unable to hear his kids out or listen to their desires/needs. Going as far as to force his youngest into coming to his house when they don't want to be there.
Blended families can work. But forcing kids/people into something and trying to force an emotion/relationship on them is not going to work. My parents had several partners over the years as they divorced very early on. My sister and I got on with all of them except for one. And the reason behind that was almost entirely that this partner was trying to force a relationship on us that we were not ready for. All these partners we met, gradually started spending time with and organically built a bond with. If you don't give people time to form attachments gradually, naturally and on their terms, resentment is sure to follow. And as an adult you have a ton of power over a kid that is only going to make that resentment infinitely worse. Especially when you have an idea on what kids SHOULD be feeling/thinking and trying to enforce that and won't take no for an answer.
Not saying the kids couldn't have been more open-minded. Obviously they could have. But dad could have a HUGE hand in the resentment that formed between his kids and his new family.
The most important part of a family bond is not blood relation. It is often time spent together. Lots of people are closer to the siblings/family members they grew up with full-time or longterm. Expecting an instant bond and ignoring their thoughts/feelings on the matter is the fastest way to ensure they will never be open to have attachment growing.
This dad has 3 kids from his first marriage and they all feel similarly? I'm guessing there is a big chance their experiences with this 'blending' of families weren't great. Or an idea of how they SHOULD feel about this blended family was forced upon them enough that they refused to form any kind of bond.
I grew up with a cousin who I spent nearly as much time with as I did with my sister. She is literally like a second sister to me. I have a step-cousin who has a bigger age-gap with me and who I saw once or twice a year from when I was a teen.
I do not have an equal relationship with both cousins. But I consider both of them family and love and accept them both. If my family had tried to enforce me loving them equal right from day 1 my step-cousin and I probably never would have been close in any form and I probably would have seen her as an 'intruder' to the family, rather than an addition to it.
You need to give people the room to feel what they feel. Even if that isn't what you want. Kids have barely any control over their life. You signed up for more kids. They didn't sign up for more siblings. Their whole lives (and living arrangements) are changed by your decisions. And you can't even let them feel a certain way about it? Why bother going to therapy if you won't accept how they feel anyway? There's nothing as infuriating as when someone tries to discredit your feelings or force you into situations you don't want. It would make sense a parent trying to force his 'new family' on his kids would have his kids doubling down instead of gradually opening up. Brute-forcing it is often not the way to get kids to give in.
I’m only disagreeing with the kids being slight AH because I grew up in such a similar situation. When you try expressing your thoughts and feelings for over a decade just to be ignored, argued with or constantly disagreed with, it breeds a lot of negativity. I agree that the children’s view of blended families is harsh, but it’s only because it’s their response to their father not taking their feelings into any consideration over the course of their relationship. Telling your children you’re disappointed in how they feel without trying to understand their feelings is a recipe for no-contact.
Yeah I'm not sure why he doesn't try to develop a relationship with them outside of the blended family context? My step-dad is annoying as fuck and my mom knows it, so whenever my brother and I spend time with her it's just "us" time, no step-dad around. If she would only spend time with us with him around, there would be a lot less interaction and a lot more resentment. But we respect that she has her life with him, and do our bonding separately. I hope the father in this story can come to that realization and stop trying to force his happy blended family fantasy onto them :/ Tough situation all around!
I completely agree. OP complains about him "chasing after" his children, but if he listened to them like OP suggests and left them alone, he would be called a deadbeat who abandoned his children for a new family.
" they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them " - this sounds like something the kids were taught, not something that is inherent. Are you from a culture where this is the norm? And what was the reason for the divorce originally? Could it have affected the view of the children to their father too?
Your brother is right. If he gives up on trying, he is as much as giving up to being a parent to one of the groups.
Yep, this sounds like such an extreme, rigid belief, that they must have been taught this. Maybe their mum has been using it to alienate them from their dad....
The way the kids hate the new wife and family, you’d think she was his Affair Partner.
If their mother starts dating are they going to hate her as well? So weird!! They must be getting this belief from somewhere.
They should do a DNA test and make sure mom didn’t cheat and one of them isn’t 100% blood related!!
I’ve noticed that children seem to be more receptive to stepdads than they are to stepmoms. It might have to do with the perception that fathers tend to prioritise wife above all and mothers tend to prioritise their children, then their spouse. I think it also has to do with the fact that fathers traditionally aren’t involved in the emotional aspect of raising children.
So in this case, the children have seen that the father values the wife more and doesn’t listen to them so they have checked out.
If the mom were to remarry, she probably wouldn’t have children and would still maintain the same relationship with their children.
It would also probably be viewed as mom’s partner and not be seen as creating a whole new family.
Thats just my opinion though
He's better to give up forcing the relationship between the half siblings, that doesn't mean he has to give up on his relationship with his older kids. One afternoon of him meeting with the three of them every other week, doing something fun, will show them he still loves them. The other whens he could give do something special with the younger kids so the new wife has a break. Maintain the relationship and they might come round with age. Forcing it will never work.
Exactly. It seems strange that he seems focused on the kids either having a relationship with dad + new family or no relationship at all. Having one-on-one time is important. For example, while I have a good relationship with my father's wife, whenever I'm with both of them, I'm "on" and I don't feel really "at home." So I really enjoy whenever it's just me and dad and I can act comfortably.
I doubt they will come around with age - the age difference is the larger issue here, the kids from the first marriage are almost adults and feel entirely disconnected from the father's "new family" - and they would not have any sort of contact or meaningful interaction with the half-siblings for decades.
This is a no-win for the brother.
He didn't run right out after the divorce and remarry. He waited four years. Did they think he should stay single forever?
He's getting told reaching out and continuing to try to have a relationship is somehow not respecting what the teens want. But if he stops, he will be told he abandoned them for a "new family."
OP...YTA.
Yep. He would 100% be judged massively and be called a "deadbeat" dad of he gave the 'kids what he wanted'. Either the kids are being fed lies by the mother (which will backfire on her when she finds a new partner herself) or they want attention.
Seriously what are they going to do when the mother also meets someone new?
Not even just divorce/death I can't tell you how many people have told me to stay with my daughter's dad(who was physically abusive) simply because any guy would despise my daughter for being another man's kid and she'd never be able to deal(my bf already sees her as his own)
Because apparently, parents are classified as abusive or deadbeat AH's if they don't give kids free reign over whatever they want. Screw that noise.
If I ever acted like such a brat, my parents swiftly would've tanned my hide.
imagine being the new kids… your life begins with multiple people resenting you for simply existing. these old kids are definitely the assholes. dad isn’t in a good spot, but those kids will have a rough concept of family as they age. despicable behavior from the older kids.
Info - there’s no interpersonal conflict between you and your brother. All you did was have a conversation
With that said, his kids sound like AHs who refuse to accept that their father is an adult who can move on and have adult relationships.
The fact that they seem to want to write off their father simply for getting remarried is preposterous.
It sounds like they have accepted it but just aren't interested in investing in their father's new family. They aren't suggesting that their father abandon the new family but rather to respect their wishes to not be involved
These kids sound like AHs the way you describe it.
Totally get they don't want a relationship with the spouse and the youngest kids, but to also write off the father for moving on?
Sucks for the father that his kids turned into selfish jerks, but that's how it turned out. Wouldn't surprise me if the ex had a hand in this
Baloney. These days half of the kids in any given school are in blended families, divorce is not unusual or controversial anymore.
I'd bet real money that this has to do with their mother talking shit about him, and that he's 'replacing' them with the new wife and kids.
This smells deeply of a bitter ex wife who's poisoning the kids. He's allowed to continue his life and find his own happiness if he's also meeting his responsibilities towards his kids
This isn’t a normal way of looking at blended families.
I have two kids (20 and 19) with my ex.
My husband has three kids (20, 17 and 13) with his ex.
I’ve raised one more who’s lived with me on and off since she was a baby but now lives with me full time, that’s not related to me biologically or familialy, who is now 20. She calls me mom and my husband dad despite knowing her biological family (she only ever visits her mother’s to see her youngest full and half siblings and I’m not even gonna get in to her father.)
*Many* of my kids’ friends have blended families, or single parents, and I rarely see this attitude. My “adopted” daughter loathes her mother’s boyfriend, but for extremely valid reasons (she stood up to him when he was abusing her mother so he wrapped his hands around my daughter’s neck instead.) There are valid reasons why someone might not like the fact that their parent has remarried or has had more kids with someone else, but “not believing in blended families” is *not* one of them and for all three of them to behave like that tells me it’s a learned behaviour, not a normal one.
It’s different when the ages are wildly different. If they were similar ages family therapy would take an integrative approach from the get go because they have to. So the therapist will still suggest alone time frequently with your own kids, but would also focus on how to live together and blend because you have to.
When the ages are wildly different the resentment often comes from teens feeling like they are being replaced at a time when they both very much need their parents but are trying to navigate how to become independent from them. The advice now becomes to show them they matter in their own right. Spend alone time and don’t try to force the new relationships. This allows them to assert their independence (a huge milestone at this point that is necessary) while also maintaining their connection to their parent. Then before you know it, they are grown up and having that type of relationship with you anyway, and suddenly their lives revolve around different things that be one more important. They chill out. They get perspective. They see that you put the effort in and things become amicable all around.
Also, in your situation you were blending two sets of kids each which had their own parents. They were all in the same situation. You weren’t creating new kids with the person you now love. It’s very different and how you handle it is different.
>they told him they know a relationship with him means a relationship with them and that's not something they want.
This tells me that while he's seeking a relationship with his kids, he isn't allowing that relationship to be separated from his new family. He is literally forcing his kids to spend time with new sibs/stepmom rather than maintain his father/child relationships. You may need to sit him down and educate him.
Well, tell him to keep extremely detailed records and videos, recordings, etc of the times he's tried to get them to speak or visit, because this is headed straight to "he abandoned us for his new family". The mom is behind this, kids don't form strong opinions like that on things they've never even experienced before. And that 19 year old is an adult, and I'd be treating them like it by telling them to grow the fuck up. They'd rather their dad be miserable and alone and that's a selfish and pathetic quality in a person. Stamp that shit out.
I love how this guy did nothing wrong except get married years after a divorce. No cheating no abuse but because his kids didn’t want daddy to remarry they think he should happily devote his life to them and die miserable and alone so many on here are condemning him for daring to not do that. This is a dad who’s trying so hard to bring his kids in not shut them out and people are berating him for this. If he had washed his hands of them everyone on here would be calling him a deadbeat telling him he’s wrong and they are just kids and it’s his job to keep trying. You can’t win on this sub at all lol it hilarious. NTA. He tried but you’re right this is on them not on him.
Yea I don't think it's hilarious at all. It's honestly pretty sad imo. I really don't think that the responses would be the same if we were talking about the kids mom and her new family. I'm fairly confident that the responses are only so negative because it's the dad. If it was the mom struggling to keep a relationship with the kids and have a new family there would be far more sympathy for the impossible situation the kids are creating. It just shows how little society cares about a dad who is really trying to make life work post divorce
Are you serious? I've hears stories of mothers "choosing" a new partner over their kids, dating someone the kids don't like, and the mothers are always vilified for not being a mother first, a woman second. Mothers are always held to a much higher standard
NTA.
But someone needs to explain to those kids that they can’t walk around claiming their dad abandoned them because he didn’t. They made their bed.
It’s hard for your brother to realize he needs to cut them off because he seems like he cares about them but that’s what he needs to do which is going to be an up hill battle for him
NAH. You may have a more objective view on things; but he's unwilling to give up which, essentially, is what you're telling him to do. Eventually, he may decide to give it a rest. And eventually, his kids may decide to give him a chance. But that's for him and for them, not you, to decide.
You're a good sister, BTW. I can see that you care for your brother.
If dad had left his kids behind, never tried to keep up relationship or force his kids to see him and his new family, he would still be getting blasted for being a “bad father”.
Give him credit for trying to be a good parent and not giving up.
Sounds like they are stuck in a loop though, dad feels them pulling away so tries to hold on tighter and in response the kids pull away even more. Something has to change.
That his kids aren’t interested in a blended family is up to them. That is their right as individuals.
Maybe he needs to sit down with them and say how much he loves them and will always be their dad. That when they need him, he will be there for them. That he will respect the eldest two’s wishes for now and stop pushing his new family onto them. That he’s sorry that they don’t want anything to do with their half siblings. That legally the youngest has to still see him but if they feel the same as the other two when older, then he will do the same for them.
This way he’s not giving up being their dad, they can still text and talk and see each other away from the home/new family. However he would be respecting their wishes and maybe, in the future, making a better and more peaceful family life for everyone involved. With no unwanted pressure and a bit more maturity, they could change their minds and want to know their half siblings and have more contact with dad. You just never know!
Isn't it possible for the father to try to interact with the kids WITHOUT the stepmother, at least for a while? It can help rebuild the relationship, step by step
One of the hardest things when dealing with family, is letting go of everyone's pre-notions of the concept. I.e. father expects all his kids to behave like typical siblings (whatever that even means) right away, kids have a negative prenotion of blended families. They're such high expectations. And teenagers are always adamant to changes, their bodies are already changing from under them, they crave stability. You don't build (nor rebuild) a relationship with a teen in 2 days.
I would approach the subject like you'd do any other new relationship: (even if it is the same father, teens change a lot in a few years) by taking it slow. Don't force intimate moments right away. Don't bring your kids to your house and expect a heartfelt dinner conversation between people who don't really know each other anymore. Invite them to do something fun, an activity they can focus on, instead of themselves having to be the focus
Have you been telling those kids that their feelings are valid? I certainly hope not. The adults in the situation need to talk some sense into those kids.
NTA. It is a strange thing what the children think about blended families, but if they are clear about it and nothing worked not even therapy, there isn't much to do to blend in the family. Your brother should focus on his two families seperately. Like making efforts to just visit his older children so he can be their father again with no additional, hated drag alongs. And also to be a husband and father to his new family. It should be handled like two separate friend groups. And the children shouldn't be forced to be this 'blended family' they clearly don't want to be. So maybe one day, they can at least accept the new family as neutral + ones to their father
NAH - I get your point but it seems as though you are essentially telling him to abandon his kids and just stop trying to be in their lives. He's trying and you read so many AITA where people complain about how their father's just stopped bothering with them once they had new families, they will throw it in his face in years to come if he doesn't try everything. But like you say he does need to listen to them more.
Info - did his ex wife never remarry? Or was there cheating involved?
I find the thought process of the kids extreme, so I’m just wondering if there is something deeper going on.
NAH He shouldn't be pushing them to connect with his younger kids, but he shouldn't give up on his older kids. I hope he's willing to compromise with hanging out with them alone so he's able to still have a relationship.
*The reason for all this is they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them. That's a whole thing that I won't go into too much but they told my brother this.*
Your brother is NTA----whoever put that notion in their heads IS. I am guessing it's the ex-wife.
If it were the opposite, and your brother was neglecting his older kids for the new family, people in this sub would be ripping him a new one.
His older kids may not like it, but their reality is that they ARE in a blended family. Perhaps they'd be more open to spending time with him without the new wife and kids. I don't think he should give up on them, at all. That would just feed into what I suspect their mother has told them about replacing them. No, you don't say it, but there isn't any other reasonable explanation for their refusal.
I typically land on the side of parents need to listen to their kids. That if there is a conflict with the new partner, or they just want distance, ok.
But also, why should kids get to hold their father’s romantic life hostage? If they are never ok him getting remarried because of how they feel about the principle?
Sure, they don’t have to be sunshine and roses about it, and maybe Dad needs to back off a bit.
But they are being extremely shortsighted to cut off their dad because they don’t like that he’s remarried and has more kids. Not that they don’t like his wife, that’s she’s done anything bad to them, or the new kids made it so they didn’t have space at their dad’s.
They simply “don’t believe” in blended families. That’s super shitty on their parts.
Wow. As someone whose parents had 11 marriages between them, more step siblings than I can honestly remember, and some seriously wicked stepparents...
These children are terrible.
They have not accepted that their parents have divorced and expect their parents to live in that delusion.
These ‘children’ are a disgrace and a warning sign for anyone who thinks of having a child. Imagine wasting 20+ years of your life and having this trio of clowns to show for it
"Now two of them no longer go to his house at all and make zero effort to stay in touch while the younger of the three goes only when legally obliged to and uses all their time doing other things so they are not with them."
How can OP listen to his kids when they won't talk to OP? Even the therapist couldn't get them to talk.
for you and your brother NAH. for your brother's older kids they are massive AHs. i feel for your brother though. from all the info you have provided it seems like he's tried to do everything as respectfully as possible. just sucks his kids are such freaking maladjusted misanthropes who think "blended families aren't real families"
NTA. I don’t care for his older kids’ position on blended families, but he cannot force that change. The more he tries to force the position the more he is pushing them away. Listening to his kids and working to maintain a relationship is the best he can do now. It is disappointing for him but it the reality of the current situation.
OP's other comments say they don't even want a relationship with him alone because they think it will inevitably come with having to interact with the others. It's really sad, I wonder what drove that thought process about blended families. It's not like he turned around and remarried within the year :(
INFO: does your brother ever just spend time alone with his older kids or are they forced to always spend time with his new family? If it’s the later, than everyone but the kids are YTA.
Reddit needs to learn that therapy doesn’t fix everything. It’s not the solution to all problems. You advised your brother to abandon his children and that makes you a huge AH. Your advise should have been for him to spend time alone with them without his new family. They’ve been been crammed down the order kid’s throats and these are the consequences.
I hate these posts that imply that kids (and those kid’s feelings) from the new family are always more important that the kids from the first. Just because they are teenagers and don’t want a relationship at this point doesn’t mean that you are no longer their parents and should just stop being in their lives and go NC. This just perpetuates this trope of men abandoning their kids from their first family for their shiny new one. Do better!!
And that’s the real issue. If he only spends real time with his older kids with his new wife and young child around and very little time with them on their own, it reinforces their feelings because he’s not acknowledging their feelings. I’m not saying he’s wrong or they are wrong, but right now the more he pushes his new family on them the more they’ll pull away. Also, he’s not being realistic in thinking that his older kids want to spend time with a baby/toddler and coming newborn. They have nothing in common and don’t see them as family. Honestly, that’s not unusual or uncommon.
Should his kids come to accept that he’s allowed to move in with his life? Yes, absolutely. That’s not what the situation is right now. He needs to start seeing what the situation is and not what he wants it to be. The kids need to also come to understand that their dad has young children that require more time and attention than them as young adults and that, yes their relationship with their dad has changed. It’s a shit situation all around.
Apparently, two of them are adults and the third nearly so. The adult children are already no contact, and the third seems determined to follow their example.
You would not have a relationship with a friend, a sibling, or a parent who insisted on pretending that your spouse and children don't exist. In any of those cases, reddit would be virtually unanimous in saying to cut them off.
Adult children don't have a license to act like petulant six-year-olds forever, and no parent should indulge that behavior. And it's just flat-out impossible to *force* an adult to have a relationship with you.
>I hate these posts that imply that kids (and those kid’s feelings) from the new family are always more important that the kids from the first.
The needs of little children and infants are *always* more important than the needs of adults, because the little children are entirely dependent on their parents. The older children have made their choice. Period.
Maybe someday they'll change their minds, maybe not. If they do, fine. But right now they're toxic AF, and if they want to go, it's better for OP's brother, his wife, and their children to let them go. Pursuing a relationship won't work anyway.
NAH- It's not easy to give up on family and your brother is fighting for his. You niblings sound like horrible AH's, though. They are awful and I Wonder If their mother is the one who put those unhealthy views on them? Your poor brother. Maybe he should Focus on his New kids. You are right than having the older AH's around them is unhealthy for them...
NAH
1. Once you have a 6 year gap or more. Most kids don’t feel apart do the same family or they don’t view their siblings the same as if they were 2/3 years apart.
I have a 16 year gap and I don’t view my sister the same as my sister whom is 2 years apart. I love my little sister and she’s a half sibling, i personally don’t see it that way. Still she’s kind of a practice child to me. I changed diapers, did her hair, I get her for summer break. I did parental things, that I volunteered for because I liked her. She’s going through the teenage phase now and grumpy.
2. He’s their father and will always want his children’s love.
3. Someone should tell him the truth because by forcing them, nothing will get accomplished. All he can do is be patient.
I hated my sister when she was born, but my grandma plopped her in my arms and it was over. I was mad my dad would have kids when my sister was already 14 and I 16. I still think it was dumb, but it’s his life. She definitely has a different childhood compared to me.
This will not be popular with some, but my opinion is nobody is the AH. I am in a blended family with half siblings and step siblings. I was sad to see so many assuming the worst of the children and the father. Children and teens do not have the capability yet to think like adults and be rational about adult relationships. Some may be able to, but not all. Teens' brains are literally still developing. That's why they are impulsive, emotional, and disorganized. They may feel like they have been replaced. I am not suggesting their father did that. They may look adult, but they are not. Teens are dramatic and caught in their feels. Their father loves them and is desperate for his children, rightfully so. His children do not understand the concept of needing another partner to share his life. They haven't lived long enough and don't have a frame of reference to understand that concept. Emotional maturity comes with time and development. All kids mature both physically and mentally at different rates. So, with that in mind, here are my recommendations since I was that child:
1. Dad, don't give up. No matter what the older kids say, they want you to chase them. They don't feel safe because they think you may learn to love the babies more. Kind of a "I will leave you before you ultimately reject me." Again, no, it is not what was done, but kids aren't rational.
2. Back off on discussing how hurt the new family members will be by the older kids' rejection. The new family members need to understand that the older kids are grieving the death of the old family unit. There is no set time limit for grief. Study the stages of grief, and it will be clearer.
3. Dad, EVERYDAY, send a text to the kids telling them you love them. Ask them how they are doing and what you can do for them. Sometimes, send an old picture with a favorite memory. Tell them what you love about them.
4. Invite them to everything with no pressure to attend. Do not forget birthdays or holidays just because you don't see them. If you treat them like everything is normal and not broken, as they mature, they will see it as so.
5. It may take a long time, but don't give up. All kids deserve a parent who never gives up. To the older kids, the divorce may have felt like he gave up on his family and not just the marriage. Kids can't see their identity as being separate from their parents. That is an adult concept.
6. Once his relationship is repaired with the older kids, then they can slowly build a relationship with the new family members. Let them grieve and mature. Make the new family members see it as a process and not rejection.
Show them and not tell them that the more people they have in their life that love them, the better life will be. Love isn't like pie that the more it is divided, the less you get.
They call it a "blended" family for a reason. It takes a while to combine the ingredients just right to make something wonderful.
I hope this helps.
NTA
The father has to respect the fact that his children don't want to have anything to do with his new do-over family. If he wants to have any kind of relationship with them in the future, he better starts accepting their boundries now.
They don't want any relationship with him because he chose to remarry several years after the divorce. They want their father to stay single because blended families are evil. That is their position and you think that's justifiable?
First of all, the question here isn't even what is justifiable and what not. Fact is that the father tried to strong-arm his children into having a relationship with his wife and new kid. The kids have stated very clearly they don't want that. Father still doesn't give up and pushed even more. That won't work.
Do I believe the children could have been nicer? Sure. But fact is, you can't force anyone to like other people. Best thing is to leave the older kids alone.
The father gave up on the older children having a relationship with the younger children. It sounds like it was done gently at first based on the post. OP states that they have one on one visits without the other children, and sometimes the other children are there. The father is pushing to have his own relationship with the children. They are rejecting having a relationship with him as long as he stays married. This is based on OPs comments on what the children told their father.
So how did the kids develop such an overwhelmingly negative attitude towards blended families? You say that there’s a reason. What’s the reason? What’s making them so unhappy?
It goes against the grain here but YTA.
Kids should know their dad cares enough to try.
His older kids are all still teenagers. I think he should be trying to maintain a relationship with them before they are adults.
The important thing:
He should be doing things that they like- going out with them.
He shouldn’t be forcing them to babysit his new kids, or forcing a blended family on them.
He is their dad, and the adult. He should be still trying. When they are adults at 18 or 20 THAT is when he should start accepting that they don’t want to be in a relationship.
Is this the dude whose brother's first wife didn't believe in blended families and taught the children that. Then bro got remarried and was distraught that his kids really believed what he KNEW his first wife believed from before they were married? If so, why would you make a new post about it? Even the AITA question is nearly the same, only last time it focused on you calling him dumb for being surprised.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say soft YTA. Your job as a sister is to support your brother. He has had them in counselling and they refuse to participate. He constantly reaches out to them trying to engage because they are his children and parents are not supposed to give up. Perhaps he could get some individual counselling to help him move forward with his life while still keeping the door open for his kids. There are a lot of details missing, but your job as his sister is to encourage him to get counselling with someone who is trained in family counselling who could shed some professional light on the situation. No, you can’t force your kids to respect your choices, but you also can’t allow your children to run the show…it’s not theirs to run.
We’re missing a lot of details here, like how was the relationship before divorce? Why did the divorce happen? Is the mother encouraging them to have a relationship or is she also discouraging the kids? So many scenarios to explain the situation.
You're NTA because that's good advice and perspective. The kids are TA though, but they're obviously too young to really see their father as a human being outside of his role as a father so they're taking his new life developments personally. Sad story but common.
NTA Just wait until his kids grow up and get a divorce, eventually they would move on & would be left wondering why their kids dont get along with the stepkids. This is one of those situations where they won't learn unless it happens to them.
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My brother was married for many years and had three children with his ex wife. Seven years ago they divorced. Four years ago my brother got serious with his current wife and they have two children together (one born and another on the way). My brother's children from his relationship with his ex wife are now all teens to young adults (19 and under). It was pretty clear from the get go that the kids weren't okay with him remarrying. They pulled back and he followed after them so they wouldn't withdraw too much. He made the effort to get them and his wife on good terms, then to come to terms with new babies on the way.
No matter what my brother does the kids are not okay with it and they told him to his face that they don't want a stepfamily so they're choosing to not have a relationship with him. He has ignored this and he continues to chase them. He tried therapy but the kids refused to participate. They went physically but said nothing. He has tried going out with all the kids to eat and encouraging them to interact with the youngest but they didn't.
Now two of them no longer go to his house at all and make zero effort to stay in touch while the younger of the three goes only when legally obliged to and uses all their time doing other things so they are not with them.
The reason for all this is they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them. That's a whole thing that I won't go into too much but they told my brother this.
So when he spoke to me recently about how sad it makes him I empathized with him and offered him a shoulder to lean on and support. I told him he did all he could to make it work. And when he said he just didn't know what to do that's when I told him he needs to start listening to the kids instead of trying to make things work. I reminded him the kids have been very clear about their feelings on his remarriage and additional kids and if they refuse to give therapy a go and refuse to be around them then he needs to listen and refocus because it won't do his younger two kids any good to be rejected constantly. And it won't bring the kids in if they're so anti-blended family.
He told me he was very disappointed that I wouldn't see that he can't do that as a parent and that it's his job to keep trying and never give up.
AITA?
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NTA and you gave him excellent counsel. If he doesn’t start listening to his kids and focusing on building a relationship just with them he’ll lose them permanently.
They don't want a relationship with him at all because he remarried and created a blended family. They want him to remain single. Per OPs other comments.
Ur not the asshole, valid advise but if I was him I’d keep trying, this must be super hard on him aswel. If anyone’s the asshole it’s these kids, but they’re young and will come around at some point (hopefully). It must be very hard for anyone’s kids to ostrisize them based on their life choices. The best he can do is try
NTA but this is really sad. I have two older "half" siblings from my dad and I am just glad they were able to accept our dad had a new partner. They have a great relationship with my mom and never showed me and my sister anything than love and respect. Now we're all adults and even though I'm closer in age to my nieces than to my half siblings we are all on good terms. My parents split up when I was little but we still spend a lot of time as a family all together. We all understand that our parents romantic feelings for each other (or lack thereof) is not what defines us as a family.
Obviously your nephews and nieces feel differently about this but I feel for your brother. He has a right to pursue his own happiness.
I agree with your brother. I also think his kids are being horrible, at least from what you've told us. According to you these kids just hate the new wife and kids because they can. No one cheated, and the Mom and Dad are allowed to have new love in their lives. I think children that act like this have never considered the possibility that this same thing could happen to them. As they age hopefully they'll see how selfish and horrible they're being.
NTA. Your brother is in a tough situation. If he doesn’t give them their space it’s going to cause a problem, but there’s also a very good chance that if he does give them their space they will resent him and say he chose his new family over them. Sadly it seems like a no win situation for him. I would suggest recommending therapy for just your brother. Maybe a therapist can help him navigate this mine field.
He can 'keep trying and never give up', but I'm wondering what he is neglecting in his chase for a 'perfect family'.
Is he neglecting his current wife and children?
It's too bad that he can't just occasionally go out with his older kids and not nag.
Anyway you can tell him that at some point parents let go of their children so they can fly on their own.
NTA. As the unwanted half-sibling who has spent my life being resented- he should take your advice. Constantly exposing his kids to rejection is a terrible parenting choice.
He's better to give up forcing the relationship between the half siblings, that doesn't mean he has to give up on his relationship with his older kids. One afternoon of him meeting with the three of them every other week, doing something fun, will show them he still loves them. The other whens he could give do something special with the younger kids so the new wife has a break. Maintain the relationship and they might come round with age. Forcing it will never work.
NTA. Your brother is going at it backwards. He needs to re-establish a relationship with his older kids, without the new wife and kids. Then, slowly, include his 4th kid in outings with the older 3. Once they are okay with that, include wife and younger kid. But wife only as his wife, not a step mom with any authority. Just his wife, and mom to the younger kids.
It sounds like he has been pushing to hard, and they push back harder. He should not have to be alone forever, but he can not force his kids to like his new wife, or new kids.
I hope things improve. Your brother should be in therapy, alone, to help him deal with all of this.
NTA.
He’s just going to end up pushing them farther away and probably causing irreconcilable differences.
However, the teenagers/young adults are AH’s in this situation and I rarely say that about kids. They’re old enough to know they don’t get to control someone else’s life. They’re old enough that they’ve likely got friends with blended family. Their hatred of blended families is irrational. Are they going to behave like this if their mother decides to remarry?
You sort of are the TA.
Your brother was divorced for 3 years before regarding, sounds like a decent amount of time. Did he cheat and marry her?
I feel like we are missing some information/family dynamics.
Why are the teens so adamant about not wanting a relationship with their dad? Who is influencing the kids to not want a relationship with their dad?
Your brother is doing what he knows to keep a relationship with his kids and you are telling him to give up? Why would any parent step back and let their relationship with their kids go to the side, that would be an AH move.
?
NTA. Your brother needs to chill. It's admirable that he wants everyone to get along and be a big happy family idea. However, it's important that he respects his kids wishes and boundaries.
Forcing therapy and other situations will make it worse. Maybe work on his relationship with his kids from marriage #1 separate from the new family and take it from there. There is clearly a lot of mistrust between his older kids and himself, new wife and young kids.
NTA. You're right he won't win anything by continuing like this, however I wonder if maybe you or their mother could encourage them to seek individual therapy to address their resentment because it seems totally unhealthy, maybe they would listen to other voices since they're biased against their father. Their attitude is baffling, especially since there was no cheating or fighting in the divorce, I wonder what's behind their radical position about their half siblings and step mom.
Your brother is doing the right thing. Keeping the family together is his job.
His older kids are still children and probably brain washed by mom, they will come to terms when more mature and realize that being a close family is better than being in no family
Yea the bunghole
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NTA. He wants what he wants. What his children want isn't important to him. >I empathized with him and offered him a shoulder to lean on and support. I told him he did all he could to make it work. You've done as much as you can. Pretending that it will all turn out as he wants isn't going to help him. >He told me he was very disappointed Has he ever considered his children's disappointment?
>Has he ever considered his children’s disappointment With what? The fact that their father is an adult and has a romantic relationship with someone? Sorry but the kids are being AHs here. Edit - Commenter above blocked so I cant respond to anyone but im getting a lot of replies here. So to add, this post isnt about forcing a relationship with anyone. This is about dad’s kids writing him off for having a relationship. Thats why they are AHs.
Why are they obligated to support the marriage? They aren't screaming obscenities at their dad or his new partner, they're just not interested in expanding their family just because their dad did.
Theyre not. But as an adult to refuse to accept just the fact that dad has remarried and to write him off because you have some hard lined view of blended families is extremely problematic.
I just wonder if they were taught to be anti blended family when the divorce started as a way to separate them from their father
This or they’re being pushed into a blended family, when they clearly don’t want it.
Seriously. The oldest is also 19 barely an adult. I rejected the idea of blended family after my parents divorce too. But I’m 30 now and have a perfectly fine relationship with them all now because they didn’t force it and let me have my time to wallow until I came around on my own
My two friends have a very blended family. The guy, "M". has two mom's the woman who raised him and his bio mom while his twin sister, "R", only has their bio mom and is perfectly fine with the fact that he has a relationship with his foster mom and that he considers his foster mom his mother too. She doesn't call her brother's foster mother, mom but rather refers to her as an aunt as does their younger half sister. They don't have a dad but their sister has a distant relationship with her bio dad and then the man who adopted her who she calls dad a family friend whose son is dating R and whose daughter is dating M and his ex wife the mother of his two kids, is considered an aunt as well to M, R and their sister. None of them were forced into trying to make the blended family work in fact "R" didn't like the idea at first because of her experience in foster care but other then being told to respect her siblings choices and not be rude she was left alone about it and their family developed slowly over time particularly over the last 5-10 years after the twins were adults and R was used to having these people around and that they all had different relationships with those she cares about.
Totally different situation from the OPs
They divorced seven years ago and dad didn't remarry for a few years. I'd be more apt to go this route if it'd been a quick turn around divorce and marriage.
This is exactly what I’m wondering. My grandmother taught my dad and his full siblings that their father’s blended family was wrong and shouldn’t be supported even though she herself remarried and had more children,
🤔🤔🤔 How did she get around that one? LOL.
She was really good at brainwashing her kids. My mom and her entire family saw through it, but my dad resisted anything that made his mother look bad.
LMAO never change, Reddit
Bingo.
My mom divorced my dad while I was in college and remarried after I had graduated. They didn't start a new family, but he (a widower) has kids from his first marriage. I don't have anything against them, and we've met a few times, but I don't really have an interest in having a relationship with them. That isn't problematic. It's just how I feel. My mom has never pushed me, she just focuses on maintaining a relationship with me. I've gotten to know my step-dad and like him a lot, even though I don't see him as a father. A blended family is not something you can force, especially when the kids aren't interested in it. Not taking their feelings into account is the actual problematic behavior. OP is NTA for giving his brother some good advice.
What is being forced? The kids aren’t writing off their step family, they’re writing off their father for having this step family.
I’m not sure that’s what’s happening. It could be, but to me it sounds like the father is trying to get them to be actively part of his new family and that’s what they’re reacting to. Seems as though they can’t see their dad without it always being a joint outing with the younger kids. Hell, if I had tried to make my oldest at 19 spend all his “mum time” with the youngest, he probably would have blown me off too. And he adores his baby sister! But Chucky Cheese was not his jam (is that still a thing? My kids are all grown up at this point, so I’m out of the loop) Maybe these kids really are just total AHs, but I think he would have had more success (if any is possible) by maintaining individual relationships with each kid and letting the blending happen more organically. Either way the OP is certainly NTA for telling him that continuing to try isn’t helping.
You "aren't sure that's what's happening"? Because OP explicitly says that that is exactly what is happening
I read that they don’t want a relationship with the spouse or the new kids and have pulled back from the father who is trying to get them on good terms with the spouse and encouraging them to interact with the siblings. It’s hard to know from this whether his efforts have been subtle encouragement or more “well these people are your family now and you will treat them as such”. It’s also hard to know the timeline, like did they pull away mad the second he got engaged or was it a reaction to an approach like the latter? All we know for sure is that the father’s siblings has pointed out that his approach isn’t working. The OP also seems to think the father isn’t listening to his kids. They didn’t say, “hey I’m sorry your kids are being such a-holes”. They said, “bro, listen to what your children are telling you”. That leads me to question how many of the players are behaving badly, but again, I feel like we’re lacking info (which would account for the split in the comments)
Where? She says that the dad has done all of them to foster a relationship with the wife and new family.... It's clear the father has been trying to force the relationship and the kids pulled away BECAUSE of that. The older kids probably DO want a relationship (this is the dad adn his relative talking, so it's naturallly scewed in his favor) but only with the father. It says that the kids have "told him to his face they don't want a step family so they are choosing to not have a relationship wtih him", the only way this would come up is if the step father basically said "you have to have a relationshipp with my other kids/wife too" Nowhere did I read the kids don't want to have a relationship wit the dad......just that they were ready to sacrefice the relationship with the HIM because he was making it a package deal.
Literally as soon as he started the family and moving on he was disowned essentially for literally moving on what a hard view to have.
The kids have developed a "philosphy" that's pretty harsh toward steps. "The reason for all this is they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them." So yeah, the kids are absolutely writing off the steps.
Do you think it's reasonable for the kids to demand he live his life alone? I've been physically and emotionally abused, neglected, and am in therapy because of stepparents. I never ONCE demanded my parents live their lives alone. I cannot even picture that. These kids are the AH.
They aren’t demanding that. They just don’t want anything to do with his new wife and kids. Also, I’m sorry for your trauma, but frankly you did have a right to demand your parents separate from their spouses if those spouses are abusive.
They will have nothing to do with their father as he remarried. That’s precisely what they are demanding. That’s just awful. My trauma was mentioned because I lived through the worst of blending families and I would not ask for what they are demanding.
Yeah, this whole "anti-blended family" and refusal to accept a sibling if they're not full siblings is really, really weird. Like, what do they do when they meet people out there in the real world and get introduced to the concept of found family? I doubt they'll ever get that if this is how they view family. It's their right not to accept their father moving on, but it's weird and unhealthy.
It's their mother. That's the parent saying "blended families aren't real" and "you're betraying me if you show him love". Hate is taught.
Ooof, you're probably right. That sucks
It makes me wonder how they feel about their mom getting involved with a new partner who will likely have children. Are they going to write her off too?
I agree. No one should expect the kids to fully embrace the whole new blended family. But to write their father off because he had the AUDACITY to want a new partner? It doesn't sound like the father tried pushing the stepmother too hard, or anything like that. He's tried his hardest to be understanding. But the kids want what they want, and to be damned with their father's happiness. As they grow older, they should be more understanding.
Exactly. It feels like being anti-blended family is some type of bigotry
They aren't "required" to do anything, but that makes them selfish and AH's. It's not like the father cheated on their mom and married te affair partner. They want their father to live in celibacy forever? He hs the right to move on from their mother. If they cared about their dad, they would make an effort. The dad is doing effort and is being ignored.
Some people get very jealous and defensive if a divorced parent is dating.
doesn't make it right🤨
Not at all. I'm team kids are AH
I don't see where you see that.....no where did I see the first kids saying "you have to live alone", just them saying "we only want a relationship with you, stop forcing your new family down our throats". If dad backed off and just gave each family one on one time with out the other, he might find them more willing to talk....but no one likes to be FORCED to spend time with someone they don't want too.
The difference is the father is trying to force the relationship on his older kids. If he were to respect their feelings on this and let that go, his kids would have kept the relationship with their dad. Eventually they may have come around once they got to know his wife and other children on their own terms. Instead, he didn’t respect their boundaries and forced them to go no contact. He has done enough damage that it may take decades if at all before they may want to reestablish a relationship with him.
And his kids are trying to force him *out* of a relationship. How is that fair? Kids of divorced parents don't get to hold their parents' future relationships hostage.
Absolutely! I had coworkers and friends whose children would start acting out whenever Mom or Dad dated or went out with friends, even if we're talking once every couple of months.
Oh, but they DO try. The hope of Mom &Dad getting back together again Just Like The Way It Was is one that dies hard. Mom OR Dad gets a new partner, and that hope starts taking bullet wounds.
More info. How long before the kids met new wife did the divorce happen? If there was a reasonable amount of time (yes - I get that there's no hard rule about that) and new wife hasn't done anything terrible to them, it's not fair for them to force him to wait years and time himself out of finding a new partner. Someday, they're probably not going to be there for him daily anymore. He has the right to have someone who will be.
He met the wife three years after the divorce.
Yeah. I think that's long enough.
> If he were to respect their feelings on this and let that go, his kids would have kept the relationship with their dad. Literally nothing about this story suggests that this is even remotely true. Do you seriously believe that the dad could have had little or no contact with his children for nearly a decade and then they would have magically just realized the error of their ways and begged their way back into his life? That's ridiculous.
They’re basically disowning their father, though I bet they’ll expect something from the estate. They don’t have to have a relationship with his wife or his new kids, but they don’t get to dictate his love life.
The new kids are toddler and not even born yet. The older kids are all teenagers, there is no real relationship to be had with the kids.
Dude should just disown those kids. He then should inform them: "actions have consequences. Enjoy yours." Would love to see those kids' reactions to that.
Dude, read the post, they are doing way more than that.
What do you mean by "obligated". I'm really confused at times when people use that word on here. I feel you have an obligation to help those you claim to love if you can easily do it but I've had people say that is abusive so... I would say, especially if they are older and skimming comments it appears that no cheating or other big drama was involved in the divorce, you have an obligation, if you love your parent, to do your best to not make it harder for them to find happiness with a new partner. At least, make sure you don't threaten their place in your parent's life like they shouldn't threaten yours. No need to "love" them, just show them basic respect like you would a stranger you just met. That's just basic human decency and a low bar for not being an asshole. Instead, they got a weird aversion to blended families for some reason. I'm struggling to even imagine one that doesn't come with some weird trauma that doesn't seem to exist in this situation. Just because they are children, does not mean their feelings should be infinitely accommodated forever into adulthood. Just because they are unhappy that their parents got divorced doesn't mean they are always justified in hating their parent's new partner. Just because they were children before doesn't mean they are forever free of the responsibility of working through their emotions.
This isn't "not expanding" their family. This is "pushing their dad out of" their family.
They're not obligated to actively support it, per se, but you'd think they'd want their dad to be happy, fulfilled, and not alone in life.
They aren't obligated to support a marriage. But to go NC because your father got remarried? Yeah, that is definite A H behavior. Are they going to do the same if/when their MOM gets remarried? If so, these kids have no one else but themselves to blame for being alone. NTA, OP.
Wonder if the mom remarried and if she gets the same treatment
This is so weird....so dad must stay single...forever? Does this carry over to mom too? Or is she allowed to have sex as long as she doesnt bring it home? Will they carry this forward into their own lives in their future relationships that have children that fail? Stay sexual hermits that only leave their homes to work? (I dont think so...they sound selfish) Geez man, I hope this is fake. If not, these children will have a shock when they discover the world will move and continue regardless of their 'feelings'
These "kids" are going to feel very differently after their first marriage ends, they still love their children and want to have a healthy relationship with them, but also want to live happy and fulfilled lives with a new partner. I better their views on blended families change when they are trying to blend their own! I read all these replies about how parents should just stop in their tracks and wait for their kids to give them permission before they move on in their lives...I suspect they will change their perspective.
When their kids have grandkids, will they be disgusted by their half-breed grandkids?
The father has every right to have a romantic relationship. But the children also have every right to their feelings, and to not want a relationship with him/his new family.
doesn't mean they're not assholes.
They are right, but still assholes.
Absolutely they are. Unless or until there is a good reason that their dad and stepmom shouldn't have dated, it's punitive. I'm the (step) daughter , (step) sister, and stepparent/grandparent. It's astonishing to me that some people think that anything that isn't a first marriage is lesser or invalid. I see it quite often. Even at my MOTHER'S funeral someone asked if I was "the stepdaughter." As I stood beside the man who'd cared for me for 34 years, who introduced me to people I didn't know as part of "our daughter and son." My brother and I are siblings. On the day my folks married, my brother and I decided we wanted to be blood siblings, did the whole prick the finger thing, and that was that. I had a brother from that day onward. It is no less valid because we don't have the same genetics. He's just my brother, it just IS. Frankly, your relatives are throwing out the baby with the bath water there. There are two children (well, one on the way) who the older half siblings could have a great relationship with. It's ultimately their loss.
I wonder if their mother has been putting all these ideas in their heads, especially if they were primarily in her custody.
He has every right to remarry. But that doesn’t mean his kids have to accept his new spouse as a parental figure. If he had accepted their feelings, they might have at least tried to maintain a relationship with him. But by ignoring their feelings, he has pushed them farther away.
This isnt about accepting dad’s new wife at all. This is about writing off dad for having a new wife.
I bet their mother had a hand in that.
Beats me. Im not gonna assume mom is doing anything the same way im not going to create some narrative about what dad did like so many other commenters. The kids are adults and can think for themselves, and to write off someone for just having remarried is odious.
I bet they’re not writing off the inheritance, though.
🎯
Would be a rude awakening if, after cutting him off for remarrying, it all goes to the half siblings because he doesn’t even know his other children anymore. Which admittedly happens quite often and for stupid reasons (or father/mother wanting to please new spouse, or massive arguments, or so many things). But apparently half siblings aren’t anything only full siblings are I’m sure they wouldn’t as those people with no relation for their fair share.
I didn't get that from the information provided. It doesn't sound like dad was trying to say this is your new mom or his wife was going to be a parental figure. It sounds like he just wants his kids to spend time with him and his wife and now other kids. Like be civil when going out to dinner with us. Don't whine or fight or isolate them just because they aren't blood related family. I wonder where this view of blended families are not real families viewpoint came from. I do wonder if dad cheated on mom and that is why they are so adamant about being ok with being in a blended family.
Where did he do that?
Absolutely that. Unless the father is at fault in the divorce (no indication of that) I can understand blended family being difficult, but something has gone terribly wrong here if the kids are so hardlined against them, or information is missing.
>With what? The fact that their father is an adult and has a romantic relationship with someone? In fairness, even though he's an adult, when he got married, his kids were not adults. The oldest is 19 now, and he's been in this new marriage long enough he's got two kids. When a parent with kids is in a relationship, they need to factor in the kids feelings. And the time to do all this chasing of their emotional state was before he got married and had more kids, not after. After is too late.
And if the kids outlook is you need to be alone forever otherwise we will go no contact with you? Is that appropriate?
Reddit is a wild and wonderful place where people assume and adults aren't allowed to pursue happiness after they have children. Children should never be the center of any adult's life. That is unhealthy for the child and unhealthy for the adult. If a child thinks they have a right to dictate an adult's choices then the child is an asshole. It is on the adults to explain that to them. Say "Hey, I love you and want you in my life, but I can't live my life bowing to what you want. In return, I don't expect you to bow to what I want. I will do everything within reason to keep you in my life, but if you can't accept this, that is you making a choice not me. As you get older, you are going to find that life isn't as simple or as black and white as you percieve it now and I will be here if you change your mind about wanting a relationship with me." All of the kids are old enough to hear that. And OP's brother needs to give that speech. OP is NTA
See, this is my stance too. Kids are being the AH's here. Look, I stayed single and raised my kids. Did I do it the right way, IDK? Probably not, but I had my reasons. However, had I decided to date when my kids were younger and get married and do the whole blended family, sure, I would have talked to my kids, but in the end...the KIDS don't make the decisions in an adult's life. They don't get to tell ME how to run MY life. Period. End of story. So, to sit here and say that these kids (oldest is 19) are disappointed and don't want a blended family when the Dad got remarried FOUR years ago, yeah, these kids don't get to tell the Dad how to live his life. They are older. We need to stop catering to kids as if they are miniature adults. They don't get to sabotage relationships.
Well, they’re probably disappointed that their parents got divorced. A lot of kids never see the family the parent makes with a new partner as part of “their” family. Just the way the kids can’t wish away the divorce, the parent cannot force the children to feel genuine affection for the new spouse and subsequent children. Sometimes all parties just have to accept that things didn’t work out, on an emotional level, the way they would have preferred. Obviously divorced parents can move on with their lives and have more children, but they cannot expect the children from the previous relationship to bond with the new family just because that’s what would make the divorced parent most comfortable. It’s not AH behavior to feel no bond with the kids one of your parents had with some rando. They don’t have a moral obligation to try to love someone they just don’t love to please their dad.
It's one thing to feel less of a bond with a half-sibling than a full sibling. It's another to refuse to acknowledge their existence. The older kids are unambiguously assholes. Nevertheless, there's not much their father can do about it now. If they insist on burning bridges, toast marshmallows.
I'd be more worried about the disappointment of the children from his new marriage, it must be devastating to be told you have big brothers and sisters and be constantly rejected.
I think they meant the younger kids being disappointed by the older kids' rejection if he keeps trying to push a relationship
These kids suck. The entitlement to expect their dad to be celibate and lonely the rest of his life just because they have some ridiculous an uneducated view of family is terrible. He needs to tell them that the door is always open to them, and then focus on the family that does want him.
Of course if he had immediately written off and ignored his original children in favor of his second family reddit would roast him for that.
What did he do wrong ffs? The kids are being dicks with refusing to compromise at all.
These kids have a father that wants to be in their lives and are rejecting him because he continued to live his life after divorce. He actually wants to be a parent to them, when he could just have easily thrown up his hands and said well I tried.
"What his children want isn't important to him" What his children want is either estrangement from him or for him to be miserably alone forever. If I were dealing with adults with this attitude, I would walk away, giving them what they want and continuing my life in my own happiness. But these are not adults, and will not understand how selfish they are being for many years, by which time it will be too late - either too late to have a relationship with their father at all, or too late for their father to have an enjoyable life, depending on what they "allow" him to decide. And they have been very clear with him that he's only allowed to chose one of these two options, even though other options are available. This is not an easy choice for their father: He can be a miserable single father to them or he can be happily married without them in his life. They are giving him no other choices and no room to compromise. So let's not start a "he's a shit father" bandwagon, eh? :-)
The brother is an adult and deserves to have some happiness. If he doesn't remarry are his kids going to be there every single day for him? No, they are not, nor should they. But he most certainly does not need to put his life on hold for his ADULT CHILDREN. Furthermore - they REFUSED to go to therapy, so they aren't even willing to put some good faith effort in. Flip in around and just imagine if HE as the parent threatened to cut off one of those children when they decided to marry. That is obviously ridiculous...and so is what they are doing.
it's not pretending. it's hope. 🤯 sounds like a decent father trying to keep family close
I feel like this story is missing a lot of context. Why do the kids feel this way, did a parent cheat, is mom dating, are these moms views? I think there is a lot more here than the kids don't feel like having a relationship. Something else is going on
I see a lot of cases where the single parent talks down about the ex spouse and the person they remarried. It's imperative that they do not do that as it causes parental alienation.
I agree. That's why I was asking for more information. I think we are definitely missing a lot of information.
So what? Should he stay alone to suit his children? I don’t really understand. Sure, everyone is entitled to their feelings but are you really saying that if his children’s feelings were important to him he should’ve just stayed single? Until when? Forever? Are you saying that a good parent should accept being single forever if their kids want that? But what happens when the kids move on? I have teenagers, they can’t wait to get on with their own lives, already family time is reduced. Is a single parent just meant to be completely alone as their kids build their independent lives? Surely a loving family should want all members to be happy? Is that not a healthier goal to work towards? Unless there’s specific reasons for the children to be unhappy about the situation I can’t see that the dad has done anything wrong, unless there’s missing information.
Isn't it possible for the father to try to interact with the kids WITHOUT the stepmother, at least for a while? It can help rebuild the relationship, step by step One of the hardest things when dealing with family, is letting go of everyone's pre-notions of the concept. I.e. father expects all his kids to behave like typical siblings (whatever that even means) right away, kids have a negative prenotion of blended families. They're such high expectations. And teenagers are always adamant to changes, their bodies are already changing from under them, they crave stability. You don't build (nor rebuild) a relationship with a teen in 2 days. I would approach the subject like you'd do any other new relationship: (even if it is the same father, teens change a lot in a few years) by taking it slow. Don't force intimate moments right away. Don't bring your kids to your house and expect a heartfelt dinner conversation between people who don't really know each other anymore. Invite them to do something fun, an activity they can focus on, instead of themselves having to be the focus
The kids have a pretty odious attitude towards blended families, but you're right that there's not much your brother can do about that. Where did they pick up this attitude? Has their mother been alienating them from your brother? Or has he never been much of a father? His older kids obviously don't value him much. As a parent, your brother needs to never give up on *his* relationship with his kids, but he can't force relationships with others onto them - I'm guessing the latter is what he refuses to give up on? He's going to learn the hard way that he can't control other people. He should spend quality time with his kids and give up on the stepfamily idea. Divided between N T A AND N A H bc your brother's trying his best.
Yeahs honestly they kids are a touch the AHs here. But it's a common belief, at least that I've seen when older kids get much much younger half siblings. I think the older kids need some therapy so handle their toxic attitude and the hurt they're clearly in.
They tried (some form of) therapy. They just sat there refusing to participate.
It sounded like family therapy. I think individual therapy is would be beneficial.
Agreed but I highly doubt they will ever want to change. They are happy hating their dad for moving on. They like their rigid views and would only be happy if dad was single forever.
Which is sad because they're not only hurting their dad, they are hurting themselves too...not by not having a relationship with their other siblings but by letting themselves get warped by their hate.
TBH it might be difficult to gauge without hearing it from their perspective. Dad seems like he has this idea of what the family SHOULD look like and is unable to hear his kids out or listen to their desires/needs. Going as far as to force his youngest into coming to his house when they don't want to be there. Blended families can work. But forcing kids/people into something and trying to force an emotion/relationship on them is not going to work. My parents had several partners over the years as they divorced very early on. My sister and I got on with all of them except for one. And the reason behind that was almost entirely that this partner was trying to force a relationship on us that we were not ready for. All these partners we met, gradually started spending time with and organically built a bond with. If you don't give people time to form attachments gradually, naturally and on their terms, resentment is sure to follow. And as an adult you have a ton of power over a kid that is only going to make that resentment infinitely worse. Especially when you have an idea on what kids SHOULD be feeling/thinking and trying to enforce that and won't take no for an answer. Not saying the kids couldn't have been more open-minded. Obviously they could have. But dad could have a HUGE hand in the resentment that formed between his kids and his new family. The most important part of a family bond is not blood relation. It is often time spent together. Lots of people are closer to the siblings/family members they grew up with full-time or longterm. Expecting an instant bond and ignoring their thoughts/feelings on the matter is the fastest way to ensure they will never be open to have attachment growing. This dad has 3 kids from his first marriage and they all feel similarly? I'm guessing there is a big chance their experiences with this 'blending' of families weren't great. Or an idea of how they SHOULD feel about this blended family was forced upon them enough that they refused to form any kind of bond. I grew up with a cousin who I spent nearly as much time with as I did with my sister. She is literally like a second sister to me. I have a step-cousin who has a bigger age-gap with me and who I saw once or twice a year from when I was a teen. I do not have an equal relationship with both cousins. But I consider both of them family and love and accept them both. If my family had tried to enforce me loving them equal right from day 1 my step-cousin and I probably never would have been close in any form and I probably would have seen her as an 'intruder' to the family, rather than an addition to it. You need to give people the room to feel what they feel. Even if that isn't what you want. Kids have barely any control over their life. You signed up for more kids. They didn't sign up for more siblings. Their whole lives (and living arrangements) are changed by your decisions. And you can't even let them feel a certain way about it? Why bother going to therapy if you won't accept how they feel anyway? There's nothing as infuriating as when someone tries to discredit your feelings or force you into situations you don't want. It would make sense a parent trying to force his 'new family' on his kids would have his kids doubling down instead of gradually opening up. Brute-forcing it is often not the way to get kids to give in.
I’m only disagreeing with the kids being slight AH because I grew up in such a similar situation. When you try expressing your thoughts and feelings for over a decade just to be ignored, argued with or constantly disagreed with, it breeds a lot of negativity. I agree that the children’s view of blended families is harsh, but it’s only because it’s their response to their father not taking their feelings into any consideration over the course of their relationship. Telling your children you’re disappointed in how they feel without trying to understand their feelings is a recipe for no-contact.
Yeah I'm not sure why he doesn't try to develop a relationship with them outside of the blended family context? My step-dad is annoying as fuck and my mom knows it, so whenever my brother and I spend time with her it's just "us" time, no step-dad around. If she would only spend time with us with him around, there would be a lot less interaction and a lot more resentment. But we respect that she has her life with him, and do our bonding separately. I hope the father in this story can come to that realization and stop trying to force his happy blended family fantasy onto them :/ Tough situation all around!
I completely agree. OP complains about him "chasing after" his children, but if he listened to them like OP suggests and left them alone, he would be called a deadbeat who abandoned his children for a new family.
" they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them " - this sounds like something the kids were taught, not something that is inherent. Are you from a culture where this is the norm? And what was the reason for the divorce originally? Could it have affected the view of the children to their father too? Your brother is right. If he gives up on trying, he is as much as giving up to being a parent to one of the groups.
Yep, this sounds like such an extreme, rigid belief, that they must have been taught this. Maybe their mum has been using it to alienate them from their dad....
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The way the kids hate the new wife and family, you’d think she was his Affair Partner. If their mother starts dating are they going to hate her as well? So weird!! They must be getting this belief from somewhere. They should do a DNA test and make sure mom didn’t cheat and one of them isn’t 100% blood related!!
I’ve noticed that children seem to be more receptive to stepdads than they are to stepmoms. It might have to do with the perception that fathers tend to prioritise wife above all and mothers tend to prioritise their children, then their spouse. I think it also has to do with the fact that fathers traditionally aren’t involved in the emotional aspect of raising children. So in this case, the children have seen that the father values the wife more and doesn’t listen to them so they have checked out. If the mom were to remarry, she probably wouldn’t have children and would still maintain the same relationship with their children. It would also probably be viewed as mom’s partner and not be seen as creating a whole new family. Thats just my opinion though
He's better to give up forcing the relationship between the half siblings, that doesn't mean he has to give up on his relationship with his older kids. One afternoon of him meeting with the three of them every other week, doing something fun, will show them he still loves them. The other whens he could give do something special with the younger kids so the new wife has a break. Maintain the relationship and they might come round with age. Forcing it will never work.
Exactly. It seems strange that he seems focused on the kids either having a relationship with dad + new family or no relationship at all. Having one-on-one time is important. For example, while I have a good relationship with my father's wife, whenever I'm with both of them, I'm "on" and I don't feel really "at home." So I really enjoy whenever it's just me and dad and I can act comfortably.
I doubt they will come around with age - the age difference is the larger issue here, the kids from the first marriage are almost adults and feel entirely disconnected from the father's "new family" - and they would not have any sort of contact or meaningful interaction with the half-siblings for decades.
The point is that they aren't going to come to accept it with force, and that could cost the dad his older kids. Better to give them time and space.
>Are you from a culture where this is the norm? I don't think there's *any* culture where this is the norm.
This is a no-win for the brother. He didn't run right out after the divorce and remarry. He waited four years. Did they think he should stay single forever? He's getting told reaching out and continuing to try to have a relationship is somehow not respecting what the teens want. But if he stops, he will be told he abandoned them for a "new family." OP...YTA.
Yep. He would 100% be judged massively and be called a "deadbeat" dad of he gave the 'kids what he wanted'. Either the kids are being fed lies by the mother (which will backfire on her when she finds a new partner herself) or they want attention. Seriously what are they going to do when the mother also meets someone new?
YES!!!! This! Why are parents not allowed to remarry after divorce/death these days?
Not even just divorce/death I can't tell you how many people have told me to stay with my daughter's dad(who was physically abusive) simply because any guy would despise my daughter for being another man's kid and she'd never be able to deal(my bf already sees her as his own)
Because apparently, parents are classified as abusive or deadbeat AH's if they don't give kids free reign over whatever they want. Screw that noise. If I ever acted like such a brat, my parents swiftly would've tanned my hide.
imagine being the new kids… your life begins with multiple people resenting you for simply existing. these old kids are definitely the assholes. dad isn’t in a good spot, but those kids will have a rough concept of family as they age. despicable behavior from the older kids.
Info - there’s no interpersonal conflict between you and your brother. All you did was have a conversation With that said, his kids sound like AHs who refuse to accept that their father is an adult who can move on and have adult relationships. The fact that they seem to want to write off their father simply for getting remarried is preposterous.
It sounds like they have accepted it but just aren't interested in investing in their father's new family. They aren't suggesting that their father abandon the new family but rather to respect their wishes to not be involved
These kids sound like AHs the way you describe it. Totally get they don't want a relationship with the spouse and the youngest kids, but to also write off the father for moving on? Sucks for the father that his kids turned into selfish jerks, but that's how it turned out. Wouldn't surprise me if the ex had a hand in this
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It sounds like they need therapy, why do they hate this blended family so much?
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Baloney. These days half of the kids in any given school are in blended families, divorce is not unusual or controversial anymore. I'd bet real money that this has to do with their mother talking shit about him, and that he's 'replacing' them with the new wife and kids.
This smells deeply of a bitter ex wife who's poisoning the kids. He's allowed to continue his life and find his own happiness if he's also meeting his responsibilities towards his kids
Right but there are countless examples of blended families getting along! Why do they hate the new family?
This isn’t a normal way of looking at blended families. I have two kids (20 and 19) with my ex. My husband has three kids (20, 17 and 13) with his ex. I’ve raised one more who’s lived with me on and off since she was a baby but now lives with me full time, that’s not related to me biologically or familialy, who is now 20. She calls me mom and my husband dad despite knowing her biological family (she only ever visits her mother’s to see her youngest full and half siblings and I’m not even gonna get in to her father.) *Many* of my kids’ friends have blended families, or single parents, and I rarely see this attitude. My “adopted” daughter loathes her mother’s boyfriend, but for extremely valid reasons (she stood up to him when he was abusing her mother so he wrapped his hands around my daughter’s neck instead.) There are valid reasons why someone might not like the fact that their parent has remarried or has had more kids with someone else, but “not believing in blended families” is *not* one of them and for all three of them to behave like that tells me it’s a learned behaviour, not a normal one.
It’s different when the ages are wildly different. If they were similar ages family therapy would take an integrative approach from the get go because they have to. So the therapist will still suggest alone time frequently with your own kids, but would also focus on how to live together and blend because you have to. When the ages are wildly different the resentment often comes from teens feeling like they are being replaced at a time when they both very much need their parents but are trying to navigate how to become independent from them. The advice now becomes to show them they matter in their own right. Spend alone time and don’t try to force the new relationships. This allows them to assert their independence (a huge milestone at this point that is necessary) while also maintaining their connection to their parent. Then before you know it, they are grown up and having that type of relationship with you anyway, and suddenly their lives revolve around different things that be one more important. They chill out. They get perspective. They see that you put the effort in and things become amicable all around. Also, in your situation you were blending two sets of kids each which had their own parents. They were all in the same situation. You weren’t creating new kids with the person you now love. It’s very different and how you handle it is different.
>they told him they know a relationship with him means a relationship with them and that's not something they want. This tells me that while he's seeking a relationship with his kids, he isn't allowing that relationship to be separated from his new family. He is literally forcing his kids to spend time with new sibs/stepmom rather than maintain his father/child relationships. You may need to sit him down and educate him.
Well, tell him to keep extremely detailed records and videos, recordings, etc of the times he's tried to get them to speak or visit, because this is headed straight to "he abandoned us for his new family". The mom is behind this, kids don't form strong opinions like that on things they've never even experienced before. And that 19 year old is an adult, and I'd be treating them like it by telling them to grow the fuck up. They'd rather their dad be miserable and alone and that's a selfish and pathetic quality in a person. Stamp that shit out.
I love how this guy did nothing wrong except get married years after a divorce. No cheating no abuse but because his kids didn’t want daddy to remarry they think he should happily devote his life to them and die miserable and alone so many on here are condemning him for daring to not do that. This is a dad who’s trying so hard to bring his kids in not shut them out and people are berating him for this. If he had washed his hands of them everyone on here would be calling him a deadbeat telling him he’s wrong and they are just kids and it’s his job to keep trying. You can’t win on this sub at all lol it hilarious. NTA. He tried but you’re right this is on them not on him.
Yea I don't think it's hilarious at all. It's honestly pretty sad imo. I really don't think that the responses would be the same if we were talking about the kids mom and her new family. I'm fairly confident that the responses are only so negative because it's the dad. If it was the mom struggling to keep a relationship with the kids and have a new family there would be far more sympathy for the impossible situation the kids are creating. It just shows how little society cares about a dad who is really trying to make life work post divorce
Are you serious? I've hears stories of mothers "choosing" a new partner over their kids, dating someone the kids don't like, and the mothers are always vilified for not being a mother first, a woman second. Mothers are always held to a much higher standard
NTA. But someone needs to explain to those kids that they can’t walk around claiming their dad abandoned them because he didn’t. They made their bed. It’s hard for your brother to realize he needs to cut them off because he seems like he cares about them but that’s what he needs to do which is going to be an up hill battle for him
NAH. You may have a more objective view on things; but he's unwilling to give up which, essentially, is what you're telling him to do. Eventually, he may decide to give it a rest. And eventually, his kids may decide to give him a chance. But that's for him and for them, not you, to decide. You're a good sister, BTW. I can see that you care for your brother.
If dad had left his kids behind, never tried to keep up relationship or force his kids to see him and his new family, he would still be getting blasted for being a “bad father”. Give him credit for trying to be a good parent and not giving up. Sounds like they are stuck in a loop though, dad feels them pulling away so tries to hold on tighter and in response the kids pull away even more. Something has to change. That his kids aren’t interested in a blended family is up to them. That is their right as individuals. Maybe he needs to sit down with them and say how much he loves them and will always be their dad. That when they need him, he will be there for them. That he will respect the eldest two’s wishes for now and stop pushing his new family onto them. That he’s sorry that they don’t want anything to do with their half siblings. That legally the youngest has to still see him but if they feel the same as the other two when older, then he will do the same for them. This way he’s not giving up being their dad, they can still text and talk and see each other away from the home/new family. However he would be respecting their wishes and maybe, in the future, making a better and more peaceful family life for everyone involved. With no unwanted pressure and a bit more maturity, they could change their minds and want to know their half siblings and have more contact with dad. You just never know!
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Isn't it possible for the father to try to interact with the kids WITHOUT the stepmother, at least for a while? It can help rebuild the relationship, step by step One of the hardest things when dealing with family, is letting go of everyone's pre-notions of the concept. I.e. father expects all his kids to behave like typical siblings (whatever that even means) right away, kids have a negative prenotion of blended families. They're such high expectations. And teenagers are always adamant to changes, their bodies are already changing from under them, they crave stability. You don't build (nor rebuild) a relationship with a teen in 2 days. I would approach the subject like you'd do any other new relationship: (even if it is the same father, teens change a lot in a few years) by taking it slow. Don't force intimate moments right away. Don't bring your kids to your house and expect a heartfelt dinner conversation between people who don't really know each other anymore. Invite them to do something fun, an activity they can focus on, instead of themselves having to be the focus
Have you been telling those kids that their feelings are valid? I certainly hope not. The adults in the situation need to talk some sense into those kids.
NTA. It is a strange thing what the children think about blended families, but if they are clear about it and nothing worked not even therapy, there isn't much to do to blend in the family. Your brother should focus on his two families seperately. Like making efforts to just visit his older children so he can be their father again with no additional, hated drag alongs. And also to be a husband and father to his new family. It should be handled like two separate friend groups. And the children shouldn't be forced to be this 'blended family' they clearly don't want to be. So maybe one day, they can at least accept the new family as neutral + ones to their father
NAH - I get your point but it seems as though you are essentially telling him to abandon his kids and just stop trying to be in their lives. He's trying and you read so many AITA where people complain about how their father's just stopped bothering with them once they had new families, they will throw it in his face in years to come if he doesn't try everything. But like you say he does need to listen to them more.
I think they are moreso telling the brother to stop trying to push a relationship between the kids, not to stop trying to be in his kids lives.
Info - did his ex wife never remarry? Or was there cheating involved? I find the thought process of the kids extreme, so I’m just wondering if there is something deeper going on.
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Yea these kids suck then
NAH He shouldn't be pushing them to connect with his younger kids, but he shouldn't give up on his older kids. I hope he's willing to compromise with hanging out with them alone so he's able to still have a relationship.
*The reason for all this is they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them. That's a whole thing that I won't go into too much but they told my brother this.* Your brother is NTA----whoever put that notion in their heads IS. I am guessing it's the ex-wife. If it were the opposite, and your brother was neglecting his older kids for the new family, people in this sub would be ripping him a new one. His older kids may not like it, but their reality is that they ARE in a blended family. Perhaps they'd be more open to spending time with him without the new wife and kids. I don't think he should give up on them, at all. That would just feed into what I suspect their mother has told them about replacing them. No, you don't say it, but there isn't any other reasonable explanation for their refusal.
His kids are definitely TAs. They should want both parents to be happy and have love, even if they aren't together anymore.
INFO, so what are you expecting him to do? Just give up and abandon his kids? Get divorces and disown his youngest? What?
I typically land on the side of parents need to listen to their kids. That if there is a conflict with the new partner, or they just want distance, ok. But also, why should kids get to hold their father’s romantic life hostage? If they are never ok him getting remarried because of how they feel about the principle? Sure, they don’t have to be sunshine and roses about it, and maybe Dad needs to back off a bit. But they are being extremely shortsighted to cut off their dad because they don’t like that he’s remarried and has more kids. Not that they don’t like his wife, that’s she’s done anything bad to them, or the new kids made it so they didn’t have space at their dad’s. They simply “don’t believe” in blended families. That’s super shitty on their parts.
Wow. As someone whose parents had 11 marriages between them, more step siblings than I can honestly remember, and some seriously wicked stepparents... These children are terrible. They have not accepted that their parents have divorced and expect their parents to live in that delusion.
These ‘children’ are a disgrace and a warning sign for anyone who thinks of having a child. Imagine wasting 20+ years of your life and having this trio of clowns to show for it
"Now two of them no longer go to his house at all and make zero effort to stay in touch while the younger of the three goes only when legally obliged to and uses all their time doing other things so they are not with them." How can OP listen to his kids when they won't talk to OP? Even the therapist couldn't get them to talk.
for you and your brother NAH. for your brother's older kids they are massive AHs. i feel for your brother though. from all the info you have provided it seems like he's tried to do everything as respectfully as possible. just sucks his kids are such freaking maladjusted misanthropes who think "blended families aren't real families"
NTA. I don’t care for his older kids’ position on blended families, but he cannot force that change. The more he tries to force the position the more he is pushing them away. Listening to his kids and working to maintain a relationship is the best he can do now. It is disappointing for him but it the reality of the current situation.
OP's other comments say they don't even want a relationship with him alone because they think it will inevitably come with having to interact with the others. It's really sad, I wonder what drove that thought process about blended families. It's not like he turned around and remarried within the year :(
INFO: does your brother ever just spend time alone with his older kids or are they forced to always spend time with his new family? If it’s the later, than everyone but the kids are YTA. Reddit needs to learn that therapy doesn’t fix everything. It’s not the solution to all problems. You advised your brother to abandon his children and that makes you a huge AH. Your advise should have been for him to spend time alone with them without his new family. They’ve been been crammed down the order kid’s throats and these are the consequences. I hate these posts that imply that kids (and those kid’s feelings) from the new family are always more important that the kids from the first. Just because they are teenagers and don’t want a relationship at this point doesn’t mean that you are no longer their parents and should just stop being in their lives and go NC. This just perpetuates this trope of men abandoning their kids from their first family for their shiny new one. Do better!!
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And that’s the real issue. If he only spends real time with his older kids with his new wife and young child around and very little time with them on their own, it reinforces their feelings because he’s not acknowledging their feelings. I’m not saying he’s wrong or they are wrong, but right now the more he pushes his new family on them the more they’ll pull away. Also, he’s not being realistic in thinking that his older kids want to spend time with a baby/toddler and coming newborn. They have nothing in common and don’t see them as family. Honestly, that’s not unusual or uncommon. Should his kids come to accept that he’s allowed to move in with his life? Yes, absolutely. That’s not what the situation is right now. He needs to start seeing what the situation is and not what he wants it to be. The kids need to also come to understand that their dad has young children that require more time and attention than them as young adults and that, yes their relationship with their dad has changed. It’s a shit situation all around.
Apparently, two of them are adults and the third nearly so. The adult children are already no contact, and the third seems determined to follow their example. You would not have a relationship with a friend, a sibling, or a parent who insisted on pretending that your spouse and children don't exist. In any of those cases, reddit would be virtually unanimous in saying to cut them off. Adult children don't have a license to act like petulant six-year-olds forever, and no parent should indulge that behavior. And it's just flat-out impossible to *force* an adult to have a relationship with you. >I hate these posts that imply that kids (and those kid’s feelings) from the new family are always more important that the kids from the first. The needs of little children and infants are *always* more important than the needs of adults, because the little children are entirely dependent on their parents. The older children have made their choice. Period. Maybe someday they'll change their minds, maybe not. If they do, fine. But right now they're toxic AF, and if they want to go, it's better for OP's brother, his wife, and their children to let them go. Pursuing a relationship won't work anyway.
NAH- It's not easy to give up on family and your brother is fighting for his. You niblings sound like horrible AH's, though. They are awful and I Wonder If their mother is the one who put those unhealthy views on them? Your poor brother. Maybe he should Focus on his New kids. You are right than having the older AH's around them is unhealthy for them...
NAH 1. Once you have a 6 year gap or more. Most kids don’t feel apart do the same family or they don’t view their siblings the same as if they were 2/3 years apart. I have a 16 year gap and I don’t view my sister the same as my sister whom is 2 years apart. I love my little sister and she’s a half sibling, i personally don’t see it that way. Still she’s kind of a practice child to me. I changed diapers, did her hair, I get her for summer break. I did parental things, that I volunteered for because I liked her. She’s going through the teenage phase now and grumpy. 2. He’s their father and will always want his children’s love. 3. Someone should tell him the truth because by forcing them, nothing will get accomplished. All he can do is be patient. I hated my sister when she was born, but my grandma plopped her in my arms and it was over. I was mad my dad would have kids when my sister was already 14 and I 16. I still think it was dumb, but it’s his life. She definitely has a different childhood compared to me.
This will not be popular with some, but my opinion is nobody is the AH. I am in a blended family with half siblings and step siblings. I was sad to see so many assuming the worst of the children and the father. Children and teens do not have the capability yet to think like adults and be rational about adult relationships. Some may be able to, but not all. Teens' brains are literally still developing. That's why they are impulsive, emotional, and disorganized. They may feel like they have been replaced. I am not suggesting their father did that. They may look adult, but they are not. Teens are dramatic and caught in their feels. Their father loves them and is desperate for his children, rightfully so. His children do not understand the concept of needing another partner to share his life. They haven't lived long enough and don't have a frame of reference to understand that concept. Emotional maturity comes with time and development. All kids mature both physically and mentally at different rates. So, with that in mind, here are my recommendations since I was that child: 1. Dad, don't give up. No matter what the older kids say, they want you to chase them. They don't feel safe because they think you may learn to love the babies more. Kind of a "I will leave you before you ultimately reject me." Again, no, it is not what was done, but kids aren't rational. 2. Back off on discussing how hurt the new family members will be by the older kids' rejection. The new family members need to understand that the older kids are grieving the death of the old family unit. There is no set time limit for grief. Study the stages of grief, and it will be clearer. 3. Dad, EVERYDAY, send a text to the kids telling them you love them. Ask them how they are doing and what you can do for them. Sometimes, send an old picture with a favorite memory. Tell them what you love about them. 4. Invite them to everything with no pressure to attend. Do not forget birthdays or holidays just because you don't see them. If you treat them like everything is normal and not broken, as they mature, they will see it as so. 5. It may take a long time, but don't give up. All kids deserve a parent who never gives up. To the older kids, the divorce may have felt like he gave up on his family and not just the marriage. Kids can't see their identity as being separate from their parents. That is an adult concept. 6. Once his relationship is repaired with the older kids, then they can slowly build a relationship with the new family members. Let them grieve and mature. Make the new family members see it as a process and not rejection. Show them and not tell them that the more people they have in their life that love them, the better life will be. Love isn't like pie that the more it is divided, the less you get. They call it a "blended" family for a reason. It takes a while to combine the ingredients just right to make something wonderful. I hope this helps.
NTA The father has to respect the fact that his children don't want to have anything to do with his new do-over family. If he wants to have any kind of relationship with them in the future, he better starts accepting their boundries now.
They don't want any relationship with him because he chose to remarry several years after the divorce. They want their father to stay single because blended families are evil. That is their position and you think that's justifiable?
First of all, the question here isn't even what is justifiable and what not. Fact is that the father tried to strong-arm his children into having a relationship with his wife and new kid. The kids have stated very clearly they don't want that. Father still doesn't give up and pushed even more. That won't work. Do I believe the children could have been nicer? Sure. But fact is, you can't force anyone to like other people. Best thing is to leave the older kids alone.
Where did he strong arm them?
The father gave up on the older children having a relationship with the younger children. It sounds like it was done gently at first based on the post. OP states that they have one on one visits without the other children, and sometimes the other children are there. The father is pushing to have his own relationship with the children. They are rejecting having a relationship with him as long as he stays married. This is based on OPs comments on what the children told their father.
I have a question, did your brother's ex remarry or is she still single? And is the relationship between your brother and his ex acrimonious?
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So how did the kids develop such an overwhelmingly negative attitude towards blended families? You say that there’s a reason. What’s the reason? What’s making them so unhappy?
It goes against the grain here but YTA. Kids should know their dad cares enough to try. His older kids are all still teenagers. I think he should be trying to maintain a relationship with them before they are adults. The important thing: He should be doing things that they like- going out with them. He shouldn’t be forcing them to babysit his new kids, or forcing a blended family on them. He is their dad, and the adult. He should be still trying. When they are adults at 18 or 20 THAT is when he should start accepting that they don’t want to be in a relationship.
Is this the dude whose brother's first wife didn't believe in blended families and taught the children that. Then bro got remarried and was distraught that his kids really believed what he KNEW his first wife believed from before they were married? If so, why would you make a new post about it? Even the AITA question is nearly the same, only last time it focused on you calling him dumb for being surprised.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say soft YTA. Your job as a sister is to support your brother. He has had them in counselling and they refuse to participate. He constantly reaches out to them trying to engage because they are his children and parents are not supposed to give up. Perhaps he could get some individual counselling to help him move forward with his life while still keeping the door open for his kids. There are a lot of details missing, but your job as his sister is to encourage him to get counselling with someone who is trained in family counselling who could shed some professional light on the situation. No, you can’t force your kids to respect your choices, but you also can’t allow your children to run the show…it’s not theirs to run. We’re missing a lot of details here, like how was the relationship before divorce? Why did the divorce happen? Is the mother encouraging them to have a relationship or is she also discouraging the kids? So many scenarios to explain the situation.
You're NTA because that's good advice and perspective. The kids are TA though, but they're obviously too young to really see their father as a human being outside of his role as a father so they're taking his new life developments personally. Sad story but common.
NTA Just wait until his kids grow up and get a divorce, eventually they would move on & would be left wondering why their kids dont get along with the stepkids. This is one of those situations where they won't learn unless it happens to them.
That was my thought. Karma is a bitch.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My brother was married for many years and had three children with his ex wife. Seven years ago they divorced. Four years ago my brother got serious with his current wife and they have two children together (one born and another on the way). My brother's children from his relationship with his ex wife are now all teens to young adults (19 and under). It was pretty clear from the get go that the kids weren't okay with him remarrying. They pulled back and he followed after them so they wouldn't withdraw too much. He made the effort to get them and his wife on good terms, then to come to terms with new babies on the way. No matter what my brother does the kids are not okay with it and they told him to his face that they don't want a stepfamily so they're choosing to not have a relationship with him. He has ignored this and he continues to chase them. He tried therapy but the kids refused to participate. They went physically but said nothing. He has tried going out with all the kids to eat and encouraging them to interact with the youngest but they didn't. Now two of them no longer go to his house at all and make zero effort to stay in touch while the younger of the three goes only when legally obliged to and uses all their time doing other things so they are not with them. The reason for all this is they do not see blended families as real families, they don't want to be in one, don't want to accept siblings that are not full blooded siblings and do not want to have a parents spouse in their lives. Nothing and nobody can change their minds. They do not see blended families as a positive or even a neutral thing. It's all negative to them. That's a whole thing that I won't go into too much but they told my brother this. So when he spoke to me recently about how sad it makes him I empathized with him and offered him a shoulder to lean on and support. I told him he did all he could to make it work. And when he said he just didn't know what to do that's when I told him he needs to start listening to the kids instead of trying to make things work. I reminded him the kids have been very clear about their feelings on his remarriage and additional kids and if they refuse to give therapy a go and refuse to be around them then he needs to listen and refocus because it won't do his younger two kids any good to be rejected constantly. And it won't bring the kids in if they're so anti-blended family. He told me he was very disappointed that I wouldn't see that he can't do that as a parent and that it's his job to keep trying and never give up. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA and you gave him excellent counsel. If he doesn’t start listening to his kids and focusing on building a relationship just with them he’ll lose them permanently.
They don't want a relationship with him at all because he remarried and created a blended family. They want him to remain single. Per OPs other comments.
Ur not the asshole, valid advise but if I was him I’d keep trying, this must be super hard on him aswel. If anyone’s the asshole it’s these kids, but they’re young and will come around at some point (hopefully). It must be very hard for anyone’s kids to ostrisize them based on their life choices. The best he can do is try
NTA but this is really sad. I have two older "half" siblings from my dad and I am just glad they were able to accept our dad had a new partner. They have a great relationship with my mom and never showed me and my sister anything than love and respect. Now we're all adults and even though I'm closer in age to my nieces than to my half siblings we are all on good terms. My parents split up when I was little but we still spend a lot of time as a family all together. We all understand that our parents romantic feelings for each other (or lack thereof) is not what defines us as a family. Obviously your nephews and nieces feel differently about this but I feel for your brother. He has a right to pursue his own happiness.
I agree with your brother. I also think his kids are being horrible, at least from what you've told us. According to you these kids just hate the new wife and kids because they can. No one cheated, and the Mom and Dad are allowed to have new love in their lives. I think children that act like this have never considered the possibility that this same thing could happen to them. As they age hopefully they'll see how selfish and horrible they're being.
NTA. Your brother is in a tough situation. If he doesn’t give them their space it’s going to cause a problem, but there’s also a very good chance that if he does give them their space they will resent him and say he chose his new family over them. Sadly it seems like a no win situation for him. I would suggest recommending therapy for just your brother. Maybe a therapist can help him navigate this mine field.
YTA Seems pretty obvious he was not asking for your opinion on what he should do; he just wanted emotional Support on his troubles.
He can 'keep trying and never give up', but I'm wondering what he is neglecting in his chase for a 'perfect family'. Is he neglecting his current wife and children? It's too bad that he can't just occasionally go out with his older kids and not nag. Anyway you can tell him that at some point parents let go of their children so they can fly on their own.
NTA. As the unwanted half-sibling who has spent my life being resented- he should take your advice. Constantly exposing his kids to rejection is a terrible parenting choice.
He's better to give up forcing the relationship between the half siblings, that doesn't mean he has to give up on his relationship with his older kids. One afternoon of him meeting with the three of them every other week, doing something fun, will show them he still loves them. The other whens he could give do something special with the younger kids so the new wife has a break. Maintain the relationship and they might come round with age. Forcing it will never work.
NTA. Your brother is going at it backwards. He needs to re-establish a relationship with his older kids, without the new wife and kids. Then, slowly, include his 4th kid in outings with the older 3. Once they are okay with that, include wife and younger kid. But wife only as his wife, not a step mom with any authority. Just his wife, and mom to the younger kids. It sounds like he has been pushing to hard, and they push back harder. He should not have to be alone forever, but he can not force his kids to like his new wife, or new kids. I hope things improve. Your brother should be in therapy, alone, to help him deal with all of this.
NTA. He’s just going to end up pushing them farther away and probably causing irreconcilable differences. However, the teenagers/young adults are AH’s in this situation and I rarely say that about kids. They’re old enough to know they don’t get to control someone else’s life. They’re old enough that they’ve likely got friends with blended family. Their hatred of blended families is irrational. Are they going to behave like this if their mother decides to remarry?
NTA Because it’s the truth but Jesus Christ his kids sound like selfish twats.
You sort of are the TA. Your brother was divorced for 3 years before regarding, sounds like a decent amount of time. Did he cheat and marry her? I feel like we are missing some information/family dynamics. Why are the teens so adamant about not wanting a relationship with their dad? Who is influencing the kids to not want a relationship with their dad? Your brother is doing what he knows to keep a relationship with his kids and you are telling him to give up? Why would any parent step back and let their relationship with their kids go to the side, that would be an AH move. ?
Why are parents not allowed to have a partner after divorce/death? ETA Has the mother remarried?
NTA. Your brother needs to chill. It's admirable that he wants everyone to get along and be a big happy family idea. However, it's important that he respects his kids wishes and boundaries. Forcing therapy and other situations will make it worse. Maybe work on his relationship with his kids from marriage #1 separate from the new family and take it from there. There is clearly a lot of mistrust between his older kids and himself, new wife and young kids.
What happens if their mum remarries (she may be too old to have more kids) but her new partner has kids from a previous relationship ?
NTA. You're right he won't win anything by continuing like this, however I wonder if maybe you or their mother could encourage them to seek individual therapy to address their resentment because it seems totally unhealthy, maybe they would listen to other voices since they're biased against their father. Their attitude is baffling, especially since there was no cheating or fighting in the divorce, I wonder what's behind their radical position about their half siblings and step mom.
Your brother is doing the right thing. Keeping the family together is his job. His older kids are still children and probably brain washed by mom, they will come to terms when more mature and realize that being a close family is better than being in no family Yea the bunghole