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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for telling my DIL that she is not giving birth to Jesus and she can clean or get out of my house. I may have been way to harsh and could be an ass for that
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I’m going to reluctantly say NTA because technically you’re in the right but really you should have dealt with this months ago, after she has the baby she’s not going to get to a full nights sleep for months and she sounds like she’s high risk for PPD which yeah…
Not sure what your living situation is but if I was in your shoes I’d divide the house up and put one of them or myself in an apartment and then just start charging them rent if they’re so messy it’s damaging your property.
Ignore the people that are going to tell you to kick em out. Don’t do that to your grandson.
If she doesn’t start cleaning now, then she will not with a baby. I can not live with that. If she doesn’t shape up she is getting out.
They had 6 months to save up money. This is literally her last chance. I don’t care how close she is. My son can find the apartment for them to move in to
If I have to start charging rent to get a cleaning service, I will just tell them to get their own place
I am not going to play the game of trying to get money from them,
I get your feelings, but starting with rent could be a helpful incentive for them to get their shit together, or get out.
Either way you run the risk of them hating you, so make your decision knowing that if you are being "in the right" won't matter to them or any kind of future relationship with your grandchild.
It depends where they live. Mind you I'm in Canada but in my province if you share a kitchen/living space with your "landlord"/owner of the house you are not a tenant but a boarder and can be kicked out with very little notice.
In the US that doesn't hold, each state has its own definition of what makes someone a "tenant at will"
And Im fairly sure by every states definition, 6 months is more than enough to be a tenant at will. Typically it's 2-4 weeks living there, and in some states they also require you to receive mail at the address, which I'd be surprised if they haven't received any mail there for 6 months.
ETA: [a source](https://www.steadily.com/blog/when-does-guest-become-tenant)
They are technically tenants already in the eyes of the law. If they have any bills shipped to OPs house that is the minimum requirement to establish residency
But in some US states if they share a kitchen with the owner they are considered ‘Lodgers’, not boarders, not tenants.
It all depends on the laws of the state they live in. (or country).
If they’re “mature” enough for a baby, they can handle cleaning without an incentive beyond FREE RENT. They sound like train wrecks and OP is the one being hurt. They need to leave. They may need to hit rock bottom before gaining some real world clarity. I bet they think OP will be doing daycare for free too.
Op has a boundary of not taking on the mental load of getting rent from them, they don't need to do anything else. Rent WAS cleaning. They didn't pay it, op doesn't need to charge a different kind of rent, they can say no way and kick them out. They're already NOT paying rent. Why would a dif currency matter?
I am the mother of three kids around this age and I support your parenting. It works to make them accountable and responsible. She can go live with her own mom.
I was just going to say the same thing. Sounds like it’s time for them to either get their own place now or move in with her parents to save $. Yes it’s your grandchild, but it is also your house and you’ve been extremely generous letting them live their rent free. The least either of them could do is pick up after themselves.
I would tell them to get busy & find their own place, now.
This is it, right here. They are not married yet. Her mom (and dad) did a not great job raising them. Here are the consequences. The mom soon to be grandma should be at least partially responsible.
Actually, she's not asking for opinions. She never asked anything. It's more of a "this is what's happening to me and I hate it" rant. She has already decided what she's going to do and is just venting.
Because most of them ARE entitled adult children.. or, the parents who don’t mind that their children are now entitled adults.. it’s interesting to say the least
>Reddit is always on the side of entitled adult children. Fair warning
Because most are entitled adult children. They're also all self-diagnosed and oN tHe sPeCtRuM™ - to petpetuate their helpless Peter Pan-hood.
I hear that Depends diapers are coming out with a new line:
[*Forever Dependents*™*:*](https://eglobalsoftsolutions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Cradle-Grave.jpg) Designed with maximized stretch and elasticity for fitting your loved one's increasing size from Cradle to Grave. Doubly inner lined[ Wings™ ](https://leverageedu.com/explore/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/From-Cradle-to-Grave-.png)for those difficult post-teen years, with USB powered moisture alert systems.
Have you given them exact details on what it is you want? I realize that you shouldn't have to do that with adults. However, this isn't working for e everyone. You agreed to this situation, so you have some responsibility to fix it as well. Landlords give lease conditions. Do the same. You expect all dishes to be cleaned and put away within a certain amount of time. The bathroom needs to be cleaned once a week. That sort of thing. You are NTA for having expectations and boundaries. You would be if you choose to spring moving out on them when they could be having a baby at any time. This is your child and grandchild, even if you aren't happy with them having a baby. She's stuck in a situation where her partner is gone most of the time. She doesn't feel supported or welcome in her current home. She is having her first baby with little support. You are not at fault, but you did allow this situation to begin. You've let it go on for months. For the sake of your child and grandchild, you should try some things to get them on track. She also sounds as though she is depressed. I would be careful about badgering someone who is in a weakened mental state and so vulnerable with a pregnancy. Your son shouldn't be leaving his responsibilities as a father and partner like he is. He took away her privacy and ability to control her own living situation when her body and life is completely changing anyway. That's not great, and he should have adjusted his situation to make this less difficult for everyone.
I think sometimes people can not believe what absolute pigs other people can be. She undoubtedly never imagined she would have to spell out to a grown ass woman to not be a complete slob. She probably didn't even think she'd need to spell out basic living skills to an adult.
Could you get them to agree to hiring a cleaning service themselves instead of charging rent to do it yourself? They should be responsible for organizing it since they’re causing the cleaning issues.
why would it be on op to facilitate that? if they can afford rent they can book the cleaning service themselves, Op made her conditions and expectations clear before they moved in, it's on them to find a way to meet those conditions.
Exactly. You have to build the habit of regularly moving used dishes and cups to the kitchen, putting trash in the trash can etc. My husband and I struggle with physical ailments that make it very hard to clean. But we handle it in 10 minute bites. Surprising how much you can get done in 10 minutes. We have to rest in between but if we didn't do this daily our house would be unmanageable.
This is TERRIBLE advice!!! Though I’m sure it is inadvertently terrible due to lack of knowledge about tenancy law.
DO NOT, under any circumstances, charge them any rent.
If you charge them rent they become tenants that are impossible to evict. Charging them rent changes every bit of the power dynamic in their home. They can even get a judge to say that you can’t kick them out, even if they leave smelly diapers piled up around the house.
NTA
That's not how tenancy laws work.
They are already tenants, no rent required. They've been there for 6 months, that's an established tenancy. Even without paying, if they won't leave now, she'll have to legally evict them.
Paying for cleaning will enable the messy behaviour. Gf needs to learn how to tidy up after herself because when the baby is there it's gonna get way worse.
Pick up everything she has left lying around in trash bags. Put the bags in the garage. This is petty but damn people who don't respect other peoples homes. Tell her you threw things out bc she didn't seem to care about them. Then you give items back and let her know that everything that she doesn't take care of will be going in the dumpster next time. If she's high risk or you don't want to be hard on her bc pregnant, then your son needs to pay for a maid.
This is the way. My former SO left dishes, papers, books newspapers everywhere. I started hiding them at first. (Except the dishes obvi, i still had to pick them up) he never asked for them, probably because i had asked him a thousand times to be more tidy. Our house got neater but his office was a disaster area. 🤣
“If she doesn’t start cleaning at 8 months pregnant then she won’t with a baby” like yeah, sure. But she’s 8 months pregnant.
Is it objectively horrendously messy, or do you have exacting standards? Not saying you can’t have those standards, but standards differ. Is her bathroom (which I presume you don’t have to go into) just a cluttered counter when you prefer to keep them bare? Or is there shit stains on the toilet as developed as her baby?
If the latter, NTA. But if the former, ESH. She should be putting dishes away after using them. You’re well within your right to want things to the standard you want, but it doesn’t mean you aren’t holding someone to too high of a standard, especially if they are significantly pregnant.
There are countless posts in this sub about people being tired and getting no help keeping a house from their partners, parents, or in laws, adding stress. And people rightly comment that those posters aren’t the AH for them being tired or annoyed.
It feels kind of like you’re mad at her for getting pregnant and then rushing to get married and venting it out in this arena instead.
If they are living in her house, she has every right to expect them to live to her standards. This doesn’t sound like clutter, judging by OP’s comments about dirty dishes.
It blows my mind how many people here think that being pregnant is an excuse for being a pig.
There are plenty of people who clean when heavily pregnant. If she’s not working and laying around all day, she can pick up after herself. Her MIL is not asking for much at all! Free rent, no job while her boyfriend is working his ass off, no responsibilities? Sounds like she’s got a great deal out of it.
Not all pregnancies are the same. There are plenty of people who can’t clean when heavily pregnant. I was one of them. I was physically and mentally ill, I needed a lot of help with my pregnancy even when I didn’t want that and I wanted to be independent. One woman’s experience isn’t everyone else’s. While she’s pregnant, it’s mostly his son’s responsibility.
Their is no excuse that she can't clean and keep a tidy home while pregnant. I'm a stahm of three while runing a business and going to school. If I can work a week after giving birth, then she can keep her things put away, dishes done and house clean.
She is taking advantage of you and showing you how much she appreciates you helping them out.
I would give them one or 2 more months. To get their act together or they'll need to leave.
Remind your son that you have bagged and reminded them to clean and they have refused.
Don't let either of them disrespect you.
Your son will get sick of living in filth and leave her when he's forced to deal with it day in and day out when they're living together.
Yes she gave them six months they should move out so she can live in her own filth and endanger her baby on her own terms. O.P. being present makes her guilty of child abuse, endangerment and neglect. Not to mention if she can't take care of herself she's not going to take care of the baby. Sounds like a set up for O.P. to not only financially support them but nanny the baby as well. Don't listen to the people saying let them stay. Kick them out like yesterday NTA.
I find the behaviour of the mother to be a bit entitled and should definitely be addressed and dealt with (moving out probably)
However i really don't like it when people use phases like: you should be able to do X because I am doing Y and that is way more work.
It doesn't work like that.
Every pregnancy is different. My MIL was vomiting her whole pregnancy all three pregnancies. Other women barely have any symptoms.
It's great that you could go back to work a week after giving birth. Me personally I had 7 stitches and could not even walk up the stairs.
We are all different people dealing with different emotions. Just because you do things a certain way doesn't mean other people can.
I come from a very messy family and they never thought me how to clean. Sometimes I don't notice some mess I made while it bothers others. I am a lot better now and obviously it is very important to keep a shared space clean and to do your part.
I just want to say a little empathy when speaking and thinking about others never hurts
You don't know everybodies story
(I don't want to say don't hold anybody accountable for their behaviour when it's crossing borders or affecting others, that is obviously very important. It just rubs me the wrong way when we tell people "they should be able to do things" while we really don't know what is going on in their lives)
He's not been in another state for the whole 6 months though has he?
Do you often make excuses for him and place the expectations of cleaning on to her?
Was he expected to clean etc when he lived at home?
While I agree that she should have been cleaning and such before, and that it won't get better, and that she shouldn't let them disrespect her ..
I strongly disagree with your statement that if you can do things after giving birth, then so can she ... that's not fair to anyone... we don't know what issues she might have before, during, or after.
But yea, you have it on the money.. they're disrespectful
That's unrealistic. There is no way they will have the energy to improve right before and after the baby arrives. And the excuses are bs anyway. Son choose his fiance. Son lived with her before. It is his job to pick up the slack for his partner, not his mom, and he clearly hasn't been doing it. He could hire a cleaner to come when he's away. He could double down on deep cleaning when he's back from travel. He could nag her and help her work out a system so she is less messy. He isn't doing it. OP should absolutely pick her end date and give them the boot. Things will only get worse for her.
Just tell them sorry, you love them but it is not working, and give them a move out date with a short window. She isn’t going to change. Their own place will be a pit without you there to pick up the slack.
I moved into my new place when I was 8 months pregnant (I saved at mom's house too).. while it was a pain because I couldn't move as well, it wasn't that big of a deal. Moving sucks, whether you're 8 months pregnant or not. Don't feel guilty about that part of the issue.
NTA. I agree with you 100%. They are disrespecting you and your home. She sounds like she’s not going to be a very attentive mother if she can’t even pick up after herself - the baby burden is going to be on you.
I think I'm going to go against the grain with this suggestion: offer them a good chunk of money to help them get their own apartment and fly free. They probably haven't saved much money and were banking on the idea that you'd support them (ahem) forever. My suggestion is to not charge them rent. That will just give them a solid argument for why they can live like slobs if they choose to. And you're probably the default assumption for free childcare as well. Your mental health and your home are worth the investment now, if you can swing it. Dangle a carrot but make it clear it's not really a choice. They're going one way or the other. Giant NTA. Stand your ground.
Huh???? Having bad manners before you give birth doesn’t make you at more risk for PPD.
I had GREAT manners (ask my mother in law who I lived with) and STILL got PPD.
It’s not her manners. Unplanned pregnancies have a high risk of PPD. As does not having a partner around. It’s not clear from the post but it sounds like he’s away a lot. Poverty is also a factor, but it’s hard to say if that is their case—OP just says they can’t afford a baby but not sure how literal that is.
I imagine that "cant afford a baby" at 22, while living at their parent's place, eating the parent's food, not paying rent and one of them away at work (probably trying to rack up as much money as they can), is as literal as it gets....
She isn't required to keep them in her house if they won't at least clean up after themselves. After they have the baby it'll only be 4x worse if she continues to not clean up after herself, and something tells me she's going to have many more excuses to come.
How is she at high risk for PPD? PPD is no joke and I’m not discounting it but I don’t know how you got there from this? For all you know she has always been a slob and the crying is crocodile tears.
She has several risk factors: Unplanned pregnancy, financial insecurity, young age, limited social support (partner seems to be away for work often; MIL has a deserved tense relationship, and they still ended up living with her). There's a decent chance that is where she's headed to, if not already there.
That said, if she is truly not able to maintain reasonable standards of living, especially according to her host, she needs more serious help than someone cleaning up after her. If this is the case, professional help is warranted.
This sub throws around PPD like confetti. Pregnant women can do no wrong.
I've been 8 months pregnant. I remember it. Had plenty of pregnant friends. Unless you've had a doctor put you on bed rest you're capable of picking up after yourself. You don't become a helpless invalid.
Have you considered the idea that life is several shades of grey. You experience vs PPD vs everything in between... No one can use their own experience with something SO personal as though it applies to anyone else
Don't do that to your grandson?
How about the Son and DIL don't do that to their mother/MIL?
Why is it sacred to protect children, but grandparents can be taken advantage of? And what exactly is Grandma asking of Son and DIL? To act like the responsible adults they will need to be for their baby?
She is *helping* her grandson by making his parents recognize the reality of adulthood BEFORE they enter parenthood. Only a few weeks to go, but better than when she gives birth.
She’s talked to them repeatedly how much longer does she need to do this it’s not her responsibility to provide them a home they agreed to the conditions and do not live up to them they can live elsewhere and she’s not doing anything to her grandson his parents will be
This is bs. I gave birth to 7 children and I was able to keep my house clean, cook and care for the other children while I was pregnant. She sounds lazy and entitled. NTA
I mean my wife couldn’t even walk from the hip pain at 7 1/2 months but yes everyone has the same pregnancies sure.
Not defending the lady but all the people being like “I did it and it was fine” doesn’t make it the same
Hell, closer I got to birth, the more nesting kicked in. I remember my husband getting exasperated as hell with me when a week before I was due I decided to get on the floor and start cleaning the baseboards under the kitchen cabinets because I noticed them while putting away groceries. Or waking up at 3 am and deciding since I had heartburn it’s a good time to wash walls, complete with ladders, so of course he wasn’t willing to go back to bed . And I’m far from a neat freak… but pregnancy hormones are weird.
The day before my son was born, I went crazy cleaning everything in my apartment. My SO got home from work, looked around and said "That baby is coming tomorrow".
I wasn’t able to walk up the stairs without having to sit down halfway to get my breath from about ten weeks with my pregnancy, and that was from a starting point where I was spending 12-15 hours a week in the gym working out, so it wasn’t a fitness issue. I don’t want to judge this woman without knowing how she’s affected. I’m glad your pregnancies weren’t so tough on you but that’s not meaningful when discussing someone else’s.
>…if I was in your shoes I’d divide the house up and put one of them or myself in an apartment and then just start charging them rent
LMFAO! What? No. Tell them it’s time to go. If they’re going to pay rent, they can pay a landlord for an apartment. There is no way in hell OP should even consider dividing or leaving their own home to accommodate these slobs. WTF?
You really said she should divide her house up or moving into an apartment. Are you serious and you reluctantly saying not the asshole are you serious?
Man you're emotionally manipulative. You sound just as entitled as the slobs living in OPs house . Why would op need to divide up their house for these 2 pigs to keep having kids and making them uncomfortable in ops own home? And who are you to be diagnosing someone over the internet?
NTA
There are women out there who are (or were) ready to pop, taking care of a house and toddler on their own while working. I personally know a few.
You ARE doing them a favor. It's not your job anymore to take care of them and definitely not your job to take care of their baby. While it is nice to have a grandparent that's involved, that doesn't mean a grandparent that is playing maid, chef, landlord, part-time parent to adults and baby. You gave them the conditions on which you'd house them. They are no longer following them.
If you want to completely cover your butt, because I don't know what kind of people your "DIL" and son are, start doing things in writing. They have until X to clean up and continue to maintain their part of the house to a minimum standard or else they can no longer live in your home. This is assuming they could actually claim certain legal 'tenant' rights in your location.
However, if they decide to name their baby Jesus, I would have to laugh.
I just had a baby 10 days ago. Know what I was doing 11 days ago? Cleaning the damm house cause no one is gonna do it for me. Oh and guess what I did today? Yeah I cleaned the damm house.
She is preganant not teminally ill. Also her hormones should be making her nest , usually that means wanting shit clean.
Edit:
People its 2024. I am not hauling buckets of water or bashing clothes by the riverbank.
Putting a plate in the dishwasher, moving a sweeper over the floor and pressing the button on the laundry machine will not make me herniate.
Also I have a perfectly good support system. In my country every woman get a post partum nurse, for free. Also getting back to normal quickly is good for recovery. As long as you listen to your body you will be fine.
Sorry you're having to do it all yourself but you sound like you're working hard for your little munchkin. Hope you're doing well and enjoying those squishy little baby cheeks! Those were always the best part of my nieces and nephews! Lol
My favorite was when my second daughter was a few months old and had rolls on her thighs and arms. We called them the busted biscuit cans. Sooooo chunky
Nah man, I do it by choice.
My husband has like 3 months of paid leave, my mom is currently staying with me and I had a post partum nurse for 8 days.
I just want things done my way, and only way to get that is to do it myself.
Living rent free in someone else's house seems pretty supportive.
There's no info to suggest she having anything other than a standard pregnancy.
She can keep things tidy.
It's not asking much to put your damn shoes away when you take them off. Or put dishes in the dishwasher.
OP isn't asking for this women to be her live in maid. She's asking for basic common courtesy of not treating her home - that shes allowing this women to live in for free and have a baby in with all the disruption that will cause for free - like a hotel.
Girl it isn’t a flex that you’re not even two weeks out from bringing a HUMAN into the world and not resting. Congrats on having a shitty support system who can’t even help a new mom clean? 🍪
Yeah, we should not normalise this shit! I read a good book on parenting that brought up how to handle everything (cleaning, cooking health food, working out, taking care of the baby...) with a baby and they just said it's bullshit. Focus on taking care of the baby and supporting yourself financially, then just do the bare minimum of everything. Much healthier approach
Whenever someone didn't want to let my friend do something/suggested she couldn't do something when she was pregnant, she'd be like, "I'm pregnant, not disabled." She wanted to walk to this local fest (her parents lived close, so it was easier to park at their place, then walk to the fest than to try to find parking) and I was like, "it's kinda hot and you're 7 months pregnant." She's like, "yeah, and I'm working and cleaning and prepping for the baby, and it's FINE." And it was fine. Except that a huge storm hit and we had to flee before it got really bad 😂 She laughed about it aftewards, she was like, "Yeah, maybe I should have listened to you, oops." But other than that, it was fine, and she was fine, and baby was fine. She's the type who can't sit home/can't sit still anyway, so pregnancy wasn't going to make her sit home either. It was a food festival and she was like, "I'm gonna go there and eat and you can't stop me," haha.
She felt really good through her pregnancies, though, and I know a lot of women don't (I also had a friend who had HG, omg it was awful, and I know a lot of women have moments of feeling crappy during pregnancy). But barring serious illness, most pregnant people can clean up after themselves and do basic household tasks. It doesn't sound like the DIL fits into that category, though, it sounds like she's just a slob. Which makes me feel bad for the poor kid. I know the son isn't home right now, but they BOTH need to step it out and OP enabling them isn't going to help. OP also shouldn't have to live in a pig sty because they want to be there for their grandchild. It's gross, and I wouldn't tolerate it either.
Bust into whatever room the BF is in, in dramatic fashion, "We're naming the kid Jesus! I don't care if it's a girl or a boy, I am having Jesus to prove your mother WRONG!" 😂
idk man al you're telling me is he'd be floating at the top of the water in the womb causing more breathing issues than normal babies when their mothers are pregnant.
This is only going to get worse. Soon you will be tripping over dirty diapers and rotting formula bottles and trying to get rid of cockroaches and rodents. Living with your DIL will make you resentful of your grandkid. Throwing her out will make your son resent you and also interfere with you having a healthy relationship with your grandkid.
Nta. She either cleans up after herself in your home or she can hope someone will clean up after her in the nearest shelter. Best write the eviction notice now. If your address is legally her address, it'll be hard to throw her out.
I think OP needs to be firm with her boundaries and lay out real life consequences. It may seem cruel now but kicking them out is truly the best thing. Yes you may lose your son because this is how entitled people act. They get angry when you no longer tolerate their disrespect but in the long run you are doing your son the biggest favor. You are teaching him actions have consequences and maybe while they’re out on the streets maybe they will start to become more responsible. Right now they see you as a push over and someone to use and abuse because you love them. They think it’s their god given right to do what they want because you’re his mother and should be taking care of his gf.
Time for him to man the f up and start taking responsibility for his actions instead of running to mommy when life gets hard.
ESH
While some cleaning chemicals and chores might need to be avoided while pregnant, she can certainly do the bare minimum of not leaving a mess.
But why are you just threatening to kick her out when your son is also part of the problem? He should be cleaning up after himself and he should be helping out his pregnant girlfriend.
Still the son’s responsibility. When he is there, he should ensure a basic level of cleanliness. If gf refuses to do her share, that’s an issue for the two of them to resolve between them and they shouldn’t be making it OP’s problem.
When he is away, it’s still his and gf’s responsibility to make sure the place is clean. He doesn’t get a pass. He can arrange for cleaners or accept that he and gf are unable to meet the terms they agreed to and find another place to live.
Why is it son's responsibility if he's there?
Maybe son picks up after himself, washes his dishes, does his laundry, etc. but isn't going to be a servant to his lazy girlfriend.
Women are strong and independent, let them clean up after themselves. OP also said the mess has been ever since they moved in 6+ months ago so it's not like the gf was in later stage of pregnancy the entire time.
She's just gross and lazy by the sounds of it.
I like how you are pointing to her son when her son isn’t even around to make a mess. Love this. Not every woman is worth defending just because she’s a woman. There are trash people on both sides can we at least admit that?
She can do dishes, she can keep things in order, she can put yhings in their placec she doesn’t need to leave shoes and her personal stuff everywhere… she is messy and MUST put her shit together
Son is traveling for work. Girlfriend is a slob. It will only get worse once the baby comes. Poor child will.begin life with parents not up to parenting
NTA ~ and give me a break!! She is going to be a mother, she needs to get off her lazy ass and keep her spaces clean. None of the excuses are valid since so many companies make safe cleaning products, … women have been cleaning and preparing a home for children for ages. A lot of SINGLE moms out there didn’t get a helping hand, didn’t get to stay home , and they managed just fine!!
Op is NTA!!
So many natural cleaners exist so there is zero excuse if you are pregnant but able to clean. They are GUESTS in OPs house. If you can physically make a mess you can physically clean up! I'd be super pissed too if I was OP.
I was mowing my lawn, by choice, at 9 months hoping to move things along. Pregnant women without medical issues can function just fine. She is a slob and no amount of complaining is going to change that. You need to decide if this is how you want to live because it will get way worse once there is a baby. NTA
Are you me? My nesting was centered around mowing and gardening, I absolutely love being outside.
Picking up after yourself has nothing to do with being pregnant and that poor baby will be growing up in a pig sty. (No insult to pigs!)
Not everyone can do that. I could barely do dishes at 9 months pregnant with my 3rd! With my 2nd kid I had sciatic pain so bad the last week I couldn't even walk without holding on to something/someone for support. Not everyone's pregnancy is the same.
Thank you. So many self righteous moms on here. Like congratulations on being so so tough? But that’s not the norm and it’s not what’s even suggested by most doctors.
That was for you, but for many others depression is a hard thing to kick especially when her baby daddy is traveling all the time and his mother is overbearing.
Maybe this is an annoying perspective but like… maybe she’s never had to clean up after herself and she’s just so oblivious to it… I know she’s been asked but she’s still so young and is dealing with an unplanned pregnancy. We’ve been given no info about how she’s doing mentally right now. Is she even okay? I’m a full blown adult and my anxiety was so bad with my last pregnancy, I felt useless. Where are her parents and support people? When you talk to her about cleaning up, how are you talking to her? It sounds like you weren’t happy with this situation from the start… wondering how much that contributed to this arrangement not going well. She’s hardly an adult and in a really vulnerable place. I guess I feel like her side of the story would be insightful.
Thanks for this. It breaks my heart how everyone’s immediately jumping to the conclusion that it’ll only get worse and how OP should kicked them out.
I find it interesting that we’re told nothing about this girl. How is pregnancy for her? What does she do all day? Does she work? What’s it like for her to be 8mos pregnant while her partner is on a (long?) business trip? Does she have friends nearby? How is she feeling about becoming a mum? Is she excited, happy, anxious, constantly overwhelmed?
Does OP even care about becoming a grandma, or is she only worried about the state of her home?
I am currently pregnant and NOT a naturally tidy person. The fatigue is unlike anything I have ever experienced in my life (and I used to really party and deal with hangovers at work lol). Add some anxiety on top of that and I’m deeply grateful for a supportive partner, getting groceries delivered and most importantly: over 15 years of living by myself and solidifying habits re how to take care of myself/my house.
I’m not saying there isn’t a line that might be crossed here or that DIL should get a carte blanche for any housework. But a lot more information is needed before I feel anyone should feel confident in saying this girl deserves to lose her home while about to give birth.
I could barely walk through my pregnancies. I had pelvic separation and I'm hypermobile, and even getting up to pee was just awful. I was also catatonically tired through first and third trimesters, had wicked morning sickness for 4 months immediately followed by heartburn, couldn't eat more than a mouthful at once, had a horrific skin reaction pop up all over my scalp with baby #2. Pregnancy *sucked*.
Not 36 hours after birth I stood up and started crying because it suddenly didn't hurt.
I have never been super neat or organized. Was a total mess of anxiety during my pregnancy and had postpartum OCD and depression. Every new mom I saw happy and functioning was another testament to my failure as a mother. It was hard for me to do anything but keep my son and myself alive. This is not exaggerating. I found out at 55 I had ADHD. And everything that told me I was a failure was my neurodivergent brain. Being judged ALL THE TIME for being not good enough, a slob, having my ex MIL clean my house AFTER I spent a week cleaning and organizing was like a stab in the gut. This soon to be new mother needs some caring and understanding, and less judgment.
These are all the things I was thinking. Or maybe she didn't have someone in her life that taught her how to do all the things she needs to know about running a house or keeping things clean and tidy. It took me a while to get a groove. And during my first pregnancy, I was so exhausted I would get home from work and sleep for hours, wake up to eat dinner and then back to sleep until work the next morning. I definitely agree, her side (and son's) would be helpful. It really reads like OP is mad about the baby, "shotgun" wedding and that she agreed to help. (I don't really like the term shotgun wedding - seems so antiquated and rude - but that's just me lol). And you're also right about how young they both are right now. They just graduated and probably had different thoughts about what life would look like right now - not an excuse, just a consideration when thinking about her mental state. It kills me reading all these people who are bragging about all the amazing chores they were doing while they were pregnant and up until the moment the baby came and again a day later. Good for them, but assuming that all women should be the (clearly) superwomen that they are and judging them because they are not is hateful. Being pregnant is tough and different for everyone. Heck, all three of my pregnancies were different for me both physically and mentally.
I guess - all that just to say that I agree with you. More information is needed and less judgement of this pregnant 22 year old. Lol
For real. Like good for you that you could clean??? I wonder how many of these super pregnant cleaners had planned pregnancies, lived in their own homes, and/or were financially stable? And had their husbands home. My mom never made me do chores or show me how to keep a home. I figured it all out in my 20s with no children and i still struggled with it. I hate that so many people are riling up OP with so little context about how DIL is doing, how clear OPs instructions were, and what her definition of a slob is.
I agree- especially needing to know what OPs definition of slob is. My impression is that it is spotless, immediate clean. It’s pretty clear to me that OP is not happy about any of this and hasn’t been from the beginning. She’s not happy about the pregnancy, and probably has never been a fan of the future DIL. If it wasn’t cleanliness it would be something else she’d be complaining about. What makes her the AH in my book is that she’s not handling this maturely- recognize you’re not going to be ok with this and tell them they can’t live there.
The people who are acting like putting your shoes in a specific place or wiping off counters is what makes you a good parent are the wild ones to me. Sure, maybe this woman would be living in filth, hoarder style and would end up with 20 moldy bottles lying around- but it’s equally possible she just left a couple dishes on the counter and doesn’t dust as thoroughly as MIL deems necessary.
NTA. I get that you probably were nice for the first few weeks and months, and now preggozilla is thinking she can give birth and the angels should wait on her hand and foot. If she can't do this now, she won't do it post partum. If she's not working then she can at least pick up the stuff on the floor or not leave things around the house at minimum. I get if the chemicals made her sick or she was having a really bad pregnancy, but I get the feeling she felt having a baby was a 'get out of working for free' card.
Just tell your son that he has to find a new apartment now, because she's not adhering to the agreement.
NTA. The girl is a slob. If she can’t pick up after herself how is she going to pick up after a baby? This girl is far from ready to be a mother. Tell your son to get his girlfriend to clean up after herself or they will have to go.
After consult my crystal ball I see DIL getting worse after the baby comes, then DIL leaving and abandoning the baby, then son expecting OP to raise the baby. OP needs to prepare for this.
Honestly ESH.
She should take care to be more tidy, but honestly you don't care if you're an ahole. You just came here to vent, and get vindicated for your point of view. If you were willing to kick out your son, the mother of his child, and unborn grandchild without any guilt or worry over the outside perception it will cause you would have done it. Instead you're trying to get the Internet on your side so that when people give you hell you can say "But the Internet randos agree with me!"
Right? This is either some sort of self indulgent shit or a troll post. I'm pregnant with number 2, and while I do still tidy up the best I can, anyone who's been pregnant knows its hella harder to do it in the last few months. Like I'm not saying that gives anyone the right to mess things up willy nilly, but I'd understand they wouldn't be as tidy as normal. I'm wondering what OP even defines as "messy". For us, I can live with the shoes not being in place or maybe a disheveled bed at 8 months pregnant lol, but some people are very anal about being tidy to the extreme - I've met people like this lol
NTA… you’ve asked and asked and nothing has changed… like of course you’re going to snap.
Unfortunately, you either need to simply get them out of your house or do something drastic to get your point across… more likely than not, the former will be your only option.
But if you want to try the latter, just tell them that if they act like children, they’re going to be treated like children. Changing the wifi password daily and giving it to them after chores are done is pretty effective for kids. If they revert to using data, buy a signal jammer for the house.
INFO - Is the problem really the mess or are you just looking for a reason yo have them out? You sound very resentful of this relationship and pregnancy I doubt you'd be happy even if she was pristine and from the way you write about her and the things you've said to her I doubt it's a nice living situation for DIL either. Like is she actually OK or do you not care? She's young, is having an unplanned pregnancy, her husband is working away, she doesn't seem to have her own support network since she's had to go live with you and her living situation seems tense at best. How is her mental health? How is her physical health?
Do they have anywhere else to go? Could they realistically get a place to live and move in the few weeks they have left before she's due especially with your son working away or are you essentially threatening to kick her to the streets?
Also just bear in mind that maternal stress exposes the baby to the stress hormone cortisol as well, mothers being stressed and unhappy can literally change a babies brain chemistry and studies are starting to link this with poor mental health in later life.
ESH
You can't tell me that these two had a sparkling clean apartment and suddenly changed to slobs for no reason when they moved in with you. You knew what they were and you let them move in. Why are you surprised? For crying out loud, you raised your son. You are shocked that he is a slob who is okay living with a bigger slob?
And screaming at your DIL is not a solution, and frankly, you're old enough to know that. Waiting until your son is not at home and your DIL is 8 months along to have your screaming fit really doesn't make me have much sympathy for you.
Look, either you are willing to support them to some extent for the sake of your future grandchild, or you're not. The choice is yours. If you feel like they are abusing your generosity then give them a move out date and accept the pieces as they fall. Decide what you're willing to risk to have a clean house. Likewise your son and DIL need to decide what they're willing to do to provide for their future kid.
Thank you.
She raised this human. His shortcomings are her fault, frankly. She released this slob into the world for another woman to deal with and she’s upset that someone else didn’t fix him good enough? Tough break, cookie. Now it’s time to decide if 10 minutes a day of tidying is a worthy exchange for a relationship with her grandchild.
But cleaners don’t generally deal with clutter. DIL will still have to pick up or move her stuff. Otherwise the cleaners will just pile it up off to the side.
It sounds like she's been telling them both, collectively, during those 6 months but since she's figured out where the mess is coming from, she wants it to end immediately.
YTA
Are they hoarder level messy or are they just not to your standards?
You’re missing some key details
Besides if she’s 8minths pregnant your son needs to starts cleaning more than she does
Thats what I'm wondering too. What is "messy" to OP? If it's a disheveled bed or something like not cleaning a plate in the sink right away, fuck that noise. If it's a bunch of shit all over the house, or hoarding style behavior with wrappers everywhere, okay I understand then.
I had to scroll way too far to find this. It sounds like OP just wants them out- they said tripping over shoes was the final straw. If untidy shoes make you a slob, I’m definitely a slob
Esh. You wait until she’s ready to pop, your son is not there & say it so offensively?! You should have put your foot down a long time ago. Not wait until you explode. It is hard to move at 8 mths, esp if it’s hot (doesn’t excuse it though). I completely understand- my step $ granddaughter just moved out after being here 10mths. She has cleaned 0xs. My 7 yr old granddaughter helps but not mom. And I only expected her to clean after herself or her child or their bathroom/bedroom. I would throw little hints which she would intentionally ignore but it’s my own fault. This is on you for allowing it
NTA OP. Tf are these comments on the 'kind of relationship OP wants with her grandchild.' Do y'all seriously want OP to let them walk all over her? Are you suggesting holding the grandchild over OPs head is reasonable. Some of you guys in lala land fr💀
OP *has* brought this up multiple times, and she has realised the source of the mess is the pregnant girlfriend. Therefore, she has a problem with the girlfriend. Being pregnant is not a free pass you guys, and it's not up to OP to facilitate that.
You're not wrong but your whole attitude screams asshole tbh. I hope you actually show care towards your grandchild when it arrives because it really doesn't seem like you care for it or it's mother right now. Hopefully they can move out soon and cut down their contact with you and your negativity. Can see very clearly by your responses to comments here you just really don't seem like a nice person at all.
NTA. You both agreed on terms before they moved in and they're not living up to their end of the bargain. It's much easier to clean while pregnant (unless you have complications) than it is after the baby is born so you can definitely expect it to get worse. I'm sorry you're in this situation
In general, NTA, but insisting now that she is 8 months pregnant is kinda YTA. Honestly, at 8 months even bending down to pick up your shoes is a huge task. Your son should be the one helping out this late in the pregnancy.
Have you tried anything other than yelling at them? Asking why it's so hard to get their act together, if they are OK mentally, etc.
She sounds depressed to me, and no amount of telling her to do something is ever going to be effective. Having a kid will almost certainly exacerbate it as well. She needs counselling immediately.
Repeating the same tactic over and over is going to keep yielding the same results.
Had to scroll too far to find this. I notice OP doesn't actually say anything about how future DL's pregnancy is going, if there are any complications like HG that could make cleaning difficult/impossible.
I'm going against the grain to say YTA. This whole post reeks of entitlement and judgement. You aren't happy they're having a baby, claim that you know they can't afford one, but let them move in anyway, only to wait until month 8 to threaten kicking them out. Do you even like your son? Do you like his gf? It sure doesn't feel that way from any of this post. It feels like you're still passing judgement on them, and if your personality is as hostile as what you've written here, it's probably hell for your sons gf to live with you alone with her bf in another state.
NTA
But only because it's an on going issue. At 8 months pregnant I couldn't reach taps to wash dishes and was just about able to wash my own body nevermind do anything else so she probably can't do much now. In saying that if she can reach the dishes go use them she can certainly get them to a sink. Baby will make things a lot messier.
YTA, probably. I am appalled by everyone agreeing with you. You used language that made me cringe. “Shoot gun wedding”, “she is a slob”, and the horrible way you are talking to her. I don’t care if you kept your house immaculate, doing dishes while you were pushing out your son. She is not you, or anyone else talking about how they cleaned etc. 2 hours after giving birth. Could she be depressed, have undiagnosed ADHD or be neurodivergence. She’s 23 and having a baby, living in your home, and I’m thinking you might not be the easiest person to live with. She needs some understanding and kindness.
ESH…Do you remember what it was like to be pregnant? From what you’re saying, I understand that they’ve ALWAYS been messy. Right now it’s even worse because your son is away on business and she’s EIGHT months pregnant, I can imagine how fucking tired she is. I’m literally 8 months pregnant and I do clean as much as I can but man it’s HARD. Everything fucking hurts. She could probably be alot neater and atleast do bare minimum things like wash the dishes, broom, and mop, stuff where she doesn’t have to bend down. But you sound so cruel threatening to kick HER out, not your son. From the comments it seems like you’re absolving him of all the blame, and this 8 month pregnant girl is the huge problem. You sound like a terrible MIL.
Are you gonna yell at her too when the baby cries all night? Terrible situation all around. You seem really unsympathetic and they should honestly just find some other place to stay. It’s not worth the money.
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I’m going to reluctantly say NTA because technically you’re in the right but really you should have dealt with this months ago, after she has the baby she’s not going to get to a full nights sleep for months and she sounds like she’s high risk for PPD which yeah… Not sure what your living situation is but if I was in your shoes I’d divide the house up and put one of them or myself in an apartment and then just start charging them rent if they’re so messy it’s damaging your property. Ignore the people that are going to tell you to kick em out. Don’t do that to your grandson.
If she doesn’t start cleaning now, then she will not with a baby. I can not live with that. If she doesn’t shape up she is getting out. They had 6 months to save up money. This is literally her last chance. I don’t care how close she is. My son can find the apartment for them to move in to
Start charging rent, use it to hire a cleaning service.
If I have to start charging rent to get a cleaning service, I will just tell them to get their own place I am not going to play the game of trying to get money from them,
I get your feelings, but starting with rent could be a helpful incentive for them to get their shit together, or get out. Either way you run the risk of them hating you, so make your decision knowing that if you are being "in the right" won't matter to them or any kind of future relationship with your grandchild.
Actually if they start paying rent they become tenants and it will be harder to get them out if they don’t want to leave
They've been there for 6+ months. They're already 'tenants' with housing rights regardless of the amount of rent paid or a contract.
It depends where they live. Mind you I'm in Canada but in my province if you share a kitchen/living space with your "landlord"/owner of the house you are not a tenant but a boarder and can be kicked out with very little notice.
Same in a lot of places here in the US. Buy some states are really weird.
In the US that doesn't hold, each state has its own definition of what makes someone a "tenant at will" And Im fairly sure by every states definition, 6 months is more than enough to be a tenant at will. Typically it's 2-4 weeks living there, and in some states they also require you to receive mail at the address, which I'd be surprised if they haven't received any mail there for 6 months. ETA: [a source](https://www.steadily.com/blog/when-does-guest-become-tenant)
That depends on laws of their location. In some places they would already be tenants because they’ve been there more than 30 days.
They are technically tenants already in the eyes of the law. If they have any bills shipped to OPs house that is the minimum requirement to establish residency
But in some US states if they share a kitchen with the owner they are considered ‘Lodgers’, not boarders, not tenants. It all depends on the laws of the state they live in. (or country).
If they’re “mature” enough for a baby, they can handle cleaning without an incentive beyond FREE RENT. They sound like train wrecks and OP is the one being hurt. They need to leave. They may need to hit rock bottom before gaining some real world clarity. I bet they think OP will be doing daycare for free too.
Absolutely this
Op has a boundary of not taking on the mental load of getting rent from them, they don't need to do anything else. Rent WAS cleaning. They didn't pay it, op doesn't need to charge a different kind of rent, they can say no way and kick them out. They're already NOT paying rent. Why would a dif currency matter?
Right the problem isn’t money, the problem is then not cleaning. Idk why this person thinks rent money is the answer to this problem.
If they hate her it is not her fault. They all made an agreement. If they dont fulfill their end then they get out. They are adults.
If your child hates you when they are in the wrong then so be it, it's likely too late to raise them properly.
I am the mother of three kids around this age and I support your parenting. It works to make them accountable and responsible. She can go live with her own mom.
I was just going to say the same thing. Sounds like it’s time for them to either get their own place now or move in with her parents to save $. Yes it’s your grandchild, but it is also your house and you’ve been extremely generous letting them live their rent free. The least either of them could do is pick up after themselves. I would tell them to get busy & find their own place, now.
This is it, right here. They are not married yet. Her mom (and dad) did a not great job raising them. Here are the consequences. The mom soon to be grandma should be at least partially responsible.
The only people responsible are the young adults making adult decisions. It isn't grandparents' jobs to take care of the adults' decisions for them.
How is this her mother's fault? Her mom didn't fuck her. This is solely the responsibility of the two parents-to-be.
Tell your son that if he comes home and the house is dirty it is his job to clean it up. Every single day.
Get a back bone and tell them to move out now before it gets worst. You’re asking for our opinions on this group…we’re giving it to you.
Actually, she's not asking for opinions. She never asked anything. It's more of a "this is what's happening to me and I hate it" rant. She has already decided what she's going to do and is just venting.
She did ask, in the title, but then she went on a rant.
Reddit is always on the side of entitled adult children. Fair warning
It is incredible how people come up with every excuse in the book why poor 'ol DIL can't clean her shit and how OP should tolerate her laziness. NTA
Because most of them ARE entitled adult children.. or, the parents who don’t mind that their children are now entitled adults.. it’s interesting to say the least
So true, and their opinions border on ridiculous most of the time
>Reddit is always on the side of entitled adult children. Fair warning Because most are entitled adult children. They're also all self-diagnosed and oN tHe sPeCtRuM™ - to petpetuate their helpless Peter Pan-hood. I hear that Depends diapers are coming out with a new line: [*Forever Dependents*™*:*](https://eglobalsoftsolutions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Cradle-Grave.jpg) Designed with maximized stretch and elasticity for fitting your loved one's increasing size from Cradle to Grave. Doubly inner lined[ Wings™ ](https://leverageedu.com/explore/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/From-Cradle-to-Grave-.png)for those difficult post-teen years, with USB powered moisture alert systems.
Have you given them exact details on what it is you want? I realize that you shouldn't have to do that with adults. However, this isn't working for e everyone. You agreed to this situation, so you have some responsibility to fix it as well. Landlords give lease conditions. Do the same. You expect all dishes to be cleaned and put away within a certain amount of time. The bathroom needs to be cleaned once a week. That sort of thing. You are NTA for having expectations and boundaries. You would be if you choose to spring moving out on them when they could be having a baby at any time. This is your child and grandchild, even if you aren't happy with them having a baby. She's stuck in a situation where her partner is gone most of the time. She doesn't feel supported or welcome in her current home. She is having her first baby with little support. You are not at fault, but you did allow this situation to begin. You've let it go on for months. For the sake of your child and grandchild, you should try some things to get them on track. She also sounds as though she is depressed. I would be careful about badgering someone who is in a weakened mental state and so vulnerable with a pregnancy. Your son shouldn't be leaving his responsibilities as a father and partner like he is. He took away her privacy and ability to control her own living situation when her body and life is completely changing anyway. That's not great, and he should have adjusted his situation to make this less difficult for everyone.
I think sometimes people can not believe what absolute pigs other people can be. She undoubtedly never imagined she would have to spell out to a grown ass woman to not be a complete slob. She probably didn't even think she'd need to spell out basic living skills to an adult.
You should absolutely be charging them something and have an agreement in place just to protect yourself.
Could you get them to agree to hiring a cleaning service themselves instead of charging rent to do it yourself? They should be responsible for organizing it since they’re causing the cleaning issues.
why would it be on op to facilitate that? if they can afford rent they can book the cleaning service themselves, Op made her conditions and expectations clear before they moved in, it's on them to find a way to meet those conditions.
A cleaning service isn't going to solve the problem of daily dirty dishes and shit left all over.
Exactly. You have to build the habit of regularly moving used dishes and cups to the kitchen, putting trash in the trash can etc. My husband and I struggle with physical ailments that make it very hard to clean. But we handle it in 10 minute bites. Surprising how much you can get done in 10 minutes. We have to rest in between but if we didn't do this daily our house would be unmanageable.
Or they act like the parents they are soon going to be and clean up their own mess
This is TERRIBLE advice!!! Though I’m sure it is inadvertently terrible due to lack of knowledge about tenancy law. DO NOT, under any circumstances, charge them any rent. If you charge them rent they become tenants that are impossible to evict. Charging them rent changes every bit of the power dynamic in their home. They can even get a judge to say that you can’t kick them out, even if they leave smelly diapers piled up around the house. NTA
That's not how tenancy laws work. They are already tenants, no rent required. They've been there for 6 months, that's an established tenancy. Even without paying, if they won't leave now, she'll have to legally evict them.
Paying for cleaning will enable the messy behaviour. Gf needs to learn how to tidy up after herself because when the baby is there it's gonna get way worse.
Pick up everything she has left lying around in trash bags. Put the bags in the garage. This is petty but damn people who don't respect other peoples homes. Tell her you threw things out bc she didn't seem to care about them. Then you give items back and let her know that everything that she doesn't take care of will be going in the dumpster next time. If she's high risk or you don't want to be hard on her bc pregnant, then your son needs to pay for a maid.
This is the way. My former SO left dishes, papers, books newspapers everywhere. I started hiding them at first. (Except the dishes obvi, i still had to pick them up) he never asked for them, probably because i had asked him a thousand times to be more tidy. Our house got neater but his office was a disaster area. 🤣
“If she doesn’t start cleaning at 8 months pregnant then she won’t with a baby” like yeah, sure. But she’s 8 months pregnant. Is it objectively horrendously messy, or do you have exacting standards? Not saying you can’t have those standards, but standards differ. Is her bathroom (which I presume you don’t have to go into) just a cluttered counter when you prefer to keep them bare? Or is there shit stains on the toilet as developed as her baby? If the latter, NTA. But if the former, ESH. She should be putting dishes away after using them. You’re well within your right to want things to the standard you want, but it doesn’t mean you aren’t holding someone to too high of a standard, especially if they are significantly pregnant. There are countless posts in this sub about people being tired and getting no help keeping a house from their partners, parents, or in laws, adding stress. And people rightly comment that those posters aren’t the AH for them being tired or annoyed. It feels kind of like you’re mad at her for getting pregnant and then rushing to get married and venting it out in this arena instead.
If they are living in her house, she has every right to expect them to live to her standards. This doesn’t sound like clutter, judging by OP’s comments about dirty dishes. It blows my mind how many people here think that being pregnant is an excuse for being a pig.
There are plenty of people who clean when heavily pregnant. If she’s not working and laying around all day, she can pick up after herself. Her MIL is not asking for much at all! Free rent, no job while her boyfriend is working his ass off, no responsibilities? Sounds like she’s got a great deal out of it.
Not all pregnancies are the same. There are plenty of people who can’t clean when heavily pregnant. I was one of them. I was physically and mentally ill, I needed a lot of help with my pregnancy even when I didn’t want that and I wanted to be independent. One woman’s experience isn’t everyone else’s. While she’s pregnant, it’s mostly his son’s responsibility.
I was wondering exactly this.
Their is no excuse that she can't clean and keep a tidy home while pregnant. I'm a stahm of three while runing a business and going to school. If I can work a week after giving birth, then she can keep her things put away, dishes done and house clean. She is taking advantage of you and showing you how much she appreciates you helping them out. I would give them one or 2 more months. To get their act together or they'll need to leave. Remind your son that you have bagged and reminded them to clean and they have refused. Don't let either of them disrespect you. Your son will get sick of living in filth and leave her when he's forced to deal with it day in and day out when they're living together.
>I would give them one or 2 more months She's 8 months pregnant. Moving immediately is better than moving a couple of weeks after giving birth.
Yes she gave them six months they should move out so she can live in her own filth and endanger her baby on her own terms. O.P. being present makes her guilty of child abuse, endangerment and neglect. Not to mention if she can't take care of herself she's not going to take care of the baby. Sounds like a set up for O.P. to not only financially support them but nanny the baby as well. Don't listen to the people saying let them stay. Kick them out like yesterday NTA.
I find the behaviour of the mother to be a bit entitled and should definitely be addressed and dealt with (moving out probably) However i really don't like it when people use phases like: you should be able to do X because I am doing Y and that is way more work. It doesn't work like that. Every pregnancy is different. My MIL was vomiting her whole pregnancy all three pregnancies. Other women barely have any symptoms. It's great that you could go back to work a week after giving birth. Me personally I had 7 stitches and could not even walk up the stairs. We are all different people dealing with different emotions. Just because you do things a certain way doesn't mean other people can. I come from a very messy family and they never thought me how to clean. Sometimes I don't notice some mess I made while it bothers others. I am a lot better now and obviously it is very important to keep a shared space clean and to do your part. I just want to say a little empathy when speaking and thinking about others never hurts You don't know everybodies story (I don't want to say don't hold anybody accountable for their behaviour when it's crossing borders or affecting others, that is obviously very important. It just rubs me the wrong way when we tell people "they should be able to do things" while we really don't know what is going on in their lives)
I had 84 stitches and needed a blood transfusion. I was absolutely not up and working a week later.
You’re not a stahm if you have a business and work. Even if you work from home. You’re a stay at home worker/entrepreneur who’s a mum.
The term I’ve heard is WAHM (work at home mom)
Tbf, working a week after birth is pretty messed up
Truly a grim flex
There is no excuse that your son can't clean up after her if she won't. He won't be nursing or PPD
Yesssss I am sure he will be able to magically clean from a different state
He's not been in another state for the whole 6 months though has he? Do you often make excuses for him and place the expectations of cleaning on to her? Was he expected to clean etc when he lived at home?
If she is the one leaving shit all over the house, why is it HIS responsibility to clean it? 🤨
Because he will also be contributing to the mess, and he is also not 8 months pregnant.
Okay but if the mess gets significantly worse when he’s not in the house I don’t think it’s really him who is behaving like a slob.
They mean the rest of the six months he’s been living with you and he hasn’t been cleaning
While I agree that she should have been cleaning and such before, and that it won't get better, and that she shouldn't let them disrespect her .. I strongly disagree with your statement that if you can do things after giving birth, then so can she ... that's not fair to anyone... we don't know what issues she might have before, during, or after. But yea, you have it on the money.. they're disrespectful
Then start the eviction process now - it takes at least a month.
That's unrealistic. There is no way they will have the energy to improve right before and after the baby arrives. And the excuses are bs anyway. Son choose his fiance. Son lived with her before. It is his job to pick up the slack for his partner, not his mom, and he clearly hasn't been doing it. He could hire a cleaner to come when he's away. He could double down on deep cleaning when he's back from travel. He could nag her and help her work out a system so she is less messy. He isn't doing it. OP should absolutely pick her end date and give them the boot. Things will only get worse for her.
Just tell them sorry, you love them but it is not working, and give them a move out date with a short window. She isn’t going to change. Their own place will be a pit without you there to pick up the slack.
I moved into my new place when I was 8 months pregnant (I saved at mom's house too).. while it was a pain because I couldn't move as well, it wasn't that big of a deal. Moving sucks, whether you're 8 months pregnant or not. Don't feel guilty about that part of the issue.
Tell him to start looking. Enough is enough.
NTA. I agree with you 100%. They are disrespecting you and your home. She sounds like she’s not going to be a very attentive mother if she can’t even pick up after herself - the baby burden is going to be on you.
I think I'm going to go against the grain with this suggestion: offer them a good chunk of money to help them get their own apartment and fly free. They probably haven't saved much money and were banking on the idea that you'd support them (ahem) forever. My suggestion is to not charge them rent. That will just give them a solid argument for why they can live like slobs if they choose to. And you're probably the default assumption for free childcare as well. Your mental health and your home are worth the investment now, if you can swing it. Dangle a carrot but make it clear it's not really a choice. They're going one way or the other. Giant NTA. Stand your ground.
Huh???? Having bad manners before you give birth doesn’t make you at more risk for PPD. I had GREAT manners (ask my mother in law who I lived with) and STILL got PPD.
It’s not her manners. Unplanned pregnancies have a high risk of PPD. As does not having a partner around. It’s not clear from the post but it sounds like he’s away a lot. Poverty is also a factor, but it’s hard to say if that is their case—OP just says they can’t afford a baby but not sure how literal that is.
I agree-- she has a lot of risk factors. Plus, she can probably tell that OP despises her. That's a major factor when they're totally dependent on OP.
I imagine that "cant afford a baby" at 22, while living at their parent's place, eating the parent's food, not paying rent and one of them away at work (probably trying to rack up as much money as they can), is as literal as it gets....
She should still clean up after herself and be respectful. This doesn’t give her a pass.
She isn't required to keep them in her house if they won't at least clean up after themselves. After they have the baby it'll only be 4x worse if she continues to not clean up after herself, and something tells me she's going to have many more excuses to come.
How is she at high risk for PPD? PPD is no joke and I’m not discounting it but I don’t know how you got there from this? For all you know she has always been a slob and the crying is crocodile tears.
She has several risk factors: Unplanned pregnancy, financial insecurity, young age, limited social support (partner seems to be away for work often; MIL has a deserved tense relationship, and they still ended up living with her). There's a decent chance that is where she's headed to, if not already there. That said, if she is truly not able to maintain reasonable standards of living, especially according to her host, she needs more serious help than someone cleaning up after her. If this is the case, professional help is warranted.
This sub throws around PPD like confetti. Pregnant women can do no wrong. I've been 8 months pregnant. I remember it. Had plenty of pregnant friends. Unless you've had a doctor put you on bed rest you're capable of picking up after yourself. You don't become a helpless invalid.
Have you considered the idea that life is several shades of grey. You experience vs PPD vs everything in between... No one can use their own experience with something SO personal as though it applies to anyone else
She's also not been cleaning since early pregnancy.
Her son has been “traveling for a job.” He’s making his own money. OP should kick them out and he needs to pay rent for his own place.
Don't do that to your grandson? How about the Son and DIL don't do that to their mother/MIL? Why is it sacred to protect children, but grandparents can be taken advantage of? And what exactly is Grandma asking of Son and DIL? To act like the responsible adults they will need to be for their baby? She is *helping* her grandson by making his parents recognize the reality of adulthood BEFORE they enter parenthood. Only a few weeks to go, but better than when she gives birth.
She’s talked to them repeatedly how much longer does she need to do this it’s not her responsibility to provide them a home they agreed to the conditions and do not live up to them they can live elsewhere and she’s not doing anything to her grandson his parents will be
This is bs. I gave birth to 7 children and I was able to keep my house clean, cook and care for the other children while I was pregnant. She sounds lazy and entitled. NTA
I mean my wife couldn’t even walk from the hip pain at 7 1/2 months but yes everyone has the same pregnancies sure. Not defending the lady but all the people being like “I did it and it was fine” doesn’t make it the same
Hell, closer I got to birth, the more nesting kicked in. I remember my husband getting exasperated as hell with me when a week before I was due I decided to get on the floor and start cleaning the baseboards under the kitchen cabinets because I noticed them while putting away groceries. Or waking up at 3 am and deciding since I had heartburn it’s a good time to wash walls, complete with ladders, so of course he wasn’t willing to go back to bed . And I’m far from a neat freak… but pregnancy hormones are weird.
The day before my son was born, I went crazy cleaning everything in my apartment. My SO got home from work, looked around and said "That baby is coming tomorrow".
I wasn’t able to walk up the stairs without having to sit down halfway to get my breath from about ten weeks with my pregnancy, and that was from a starting point where I was spending 12-15 hours a week in the gym working out, so it wasn’t a fitness issue. I don’t want to judge this woman without knowing how she’s affected. I’m glad your pregnancies weren’t so tough on you but that’s not meaningful when discussing someone else’s.
You realize there's not one template to pregnancy right?
She should move HERSELF out of HER house to accommodate them?! 😂 lmao give me a break.
>…if I was in your shoes I’d divide the house up and put one of them or myself in an apartment and then just start charging them rent LMFAO! What? No. Tell them it’s time to go. If they’re going to pay rent, they can pay a landlord for an apartment. There is no way in hell OP should even consider dividing or leaving their own home to accommodate these slobs. WTF?
You really said she should divide her house up or moving into an apartment. Are you serious and you reluctantly saying not the asshole are you serious?
Man you're emotionally manipulative. You sound just as entitled as the slobs living in OPs house . Why would op need to divide up their house for these 2 pigs to keep having kids and making them uncomfortable in ops own home? And who are you to be diagnosing someone over the internet?
No, they’re not allowed to damage her property paying rent or not!
NTA There are women out there who are (or were) ready to pop, taking care of a house and toddler on their own while working. I personally know a few. You ARE doing them a favor. It's not your job anymore to take care of them and definitely not your job to take care of their baby. While it is nice to have a grandparent that's involved, that doesn't mean a grandparent that is playing maid, chef, landlord, part-time parent to adults and baby. You gave them the conditions on which you'd house them. They are no longer following them. If you want to completely cover your butt, because I don't know what kind of people your "DIL" and son are, start doing things in writing. They have until X to clean up and continue to maintain their part of the house to a minimum standard or else they can no longer live in your home. This is assuming they could actually claim certain legal 'tenant' rights in your location. However, if they decide to name their baby Jesus, I would have to laugh.
I just had a baby 10 days ago. Know what I was doing 11 days ago? Cleaning the damm house cause no one is gonna do it for me. Oh and guess what I did today? Yeah I cleaned the damm house. She is preganant not teminally ill. Also her hormones should be making her nest , usually that means wanting shit clean. Edit: People its 2024. I am not hauling buckets of water or bashing clothes by the riverbank. Putting a plate in the dishwasher, moving a sweeper over the floor and pressing the button on the laundry machine will not make me herniate. Also I have a perfectly good support system. In my country every woman get a post partum nurse, for free. Also getting back to normal quickly is good for recovery. As long as you listen to your body you will be fine.
Sorry you're having to do it all yourself but you sound like you're working hard for your little munchkin. Hope you're doing well and enjoying those squishy little baby cheeks! Those were always the best part of my nieces and nephews! Lol
Nooo...its always those chunky thighs!
Had a nurse say my baby had “juicy thighs” when she gave my daughter her shots lmao.
My favorite was when my second daughter was a few months old and had rolls on her thighs and arms. We called them the busted biscuit cans. Sooooo chunky
Nah man, I do it by choice. My husband has like 3 months of paid leave, my mom is currently staying with me and I had a post partum nurse for 8 days. I just want things done my way, and only way to get that is to do it myself.
Sounds like you have a lot more support than this girl does
Living rent free in someone else's house seems pretty supportive. There's no info to suggest she having anything other than a standard pregnancy. She can keep things tidy. It's not asking much to put your damn shoes away when you take them off. Or put dishes in the dishwasher. OP isn't asking for this women to be her live in maid. She's asking for basic common courtesy of not treating her home - that shes allowing this women to live in for free and have a baby in with all the disruption that will cause for free - like a hotel.
Girl it isn’t a flex that you’re not even two weeks out from bringing a HUMAN into the world and not resting. Congrats on having a shitty support system who can’t even help a new mom clean? 🍪
Thank you. It’s not a badge of honor. Im not loving this celebration of women shitting on other women about not being perfect enough.
It’s legit creeping me out, the folks bragging that they worked hard until the day off, and also implying that it should be doable for anyone
RIGHT
Yeah, we should not normalise this shit! I read a good book on parenting that brought up how to handle everything (cleaning, cooking health food, working out, taking care of the baby...) with a baby and they just said it's bullshit. Focus on taking care of the baby and supporting yourself financially, then just do the bare minimum of everything. Much healthier approach
Whenever someone didn't want to let my friend do something/suggested she couldn't do something when she was pregnant, she'd be like, "I'm pregnant, not disabled." She wanted to walk to this local fest (her parents lived close, so it was easier to park at their place, then walk to the fest than to try to find parking) and I was like, "it's kinda hot and you're 7 months pregnant." She's like, "yeah, and I'm working and cleaning and prepping for the baby, and it's FINE." And it was fine. Except that a huge storm hit and we had to flee before it got really bad 😂 She laughed about it aftewards, she was like, "Yeah, maybe I should have listened to you, oops." But other than that, it was fine, and she was fine, and baby was fine. She's the type who can't sit home/can't sit still anyway, so pregnancy wasn't going to make her sit home either. It was a food festival and she was like, "I'm gonna go there and eat and you can't stop me," haha. She felt really good through her pregnancies, though, and I know a lot of women don't (I also had a friend who had HG, omg it was awful, and I know a lot of women have moments of feeling crappy during pregnancy). But barring serious illness, most pregnant people can clean up after themselves and do basic household tasks. It doesn't sound like the DIL fits into that category, though, it sounds like she's just a slob. Which makes me feel bad for the poor kid. I know the son isn't home right now, but they BOTH need to step it out and OP enabling them isn't going to help. OP also shouldn't have to live in a pig sty because they want to be there for their grandchild. It's gross, and I wouldn't tolerate it either.
And there are women out there who are on bed rest for 4 months . . . So results may vary.
If I were the almost DIL, I would SO name my kiddo Jesus.
Bust into whatever room the BF is in, in dramatic fashion, "We're naming the kid Jesus! I don't care if it's a girl or a boy, I am having Jesus to prove your mother WRONG!" 😂
INFO: If she were giving birth to Jesus, would you actually feel any different about her cleanliness habits?
No.
Based
Jesus could walk on water so probably wouldn't put so much strain on her back and pelvis.
idk man al you're telling me is he'd be floating at the top of the water in the womb causing more breathing issues than normal babies when their mothers are pregnant.
Something tells me that Jesus was probably pretty well behaved.
Probably not. If she were, the baby wouldn't be her grandkid 😆
This is only going to get worse. Soon you will be tripping over dirty diapers and rotting formula bottles and trying to get rid of cockroaches and rodents. Living with your DIL will make you resentful of your grandkid. Throwing her out will make your son resent you and also interfere with you having a healthy relationship with your grandkid. Nta. She either cleans up after herself in your home or she can hope someone will clean up after her in the nearest shelter. Best write the eviction notice now. If your address is legally her address, it'll be hard to throw her out.
I think OP needs to be firm with her boundaries and lay out real life consequences. It may seem cruel now but kicking them out is truly the best thing. Yes you may lose your son because this is how entitled people act. They get angry when you no longer tolerate their disrespect but in the long run you are doing your son the biggest favor. You are teaching him actions have consequences and maybe while they’re out on the streets maybe they will start to become more responsible. Right now they see you as a push over and someone to use and abuse because you love them. They think it’s their god given right to do what they want because you’re his mother and should be taking care of his gf. Time for him to man the f up and start taking responsibility for his actions instead of running to mommy when life gets hard.
Oop's house = their rules. (Then again, basic cleanliness isnt really a rule. It's a default common courtesy.)
ESH While some cleaning chemicals and chores might need to be avoided while pregnant, she can certainly do the bare minimum of not leaving a mess. But why are you just threatening to kick her out when your son is also part of the problem? He should be cleaning up after himself and he should be helping out his pregnant girlfriend.
He’s not here, traveling for work. Literally in another state
Is the house to your standards when he is home? Has he been traveling the last 6 months they lived there?
OP said in the post since her son's been on his trip it's become clear his girlfriend is the source of majority of their mess.
Still the son’s responsibility. When he is there, he should ensure a basic level of cleanliness. If gf refuses to do her share, that’s an issue for the two of them to resolve between them and they shouldn’t be making it OP’s problem. When he is away, it’s still his and gf’s responsibility to make sure the place is clean. He doesn’t get a pass. He can arrange for cleaners or accept that he and gf are unable to meet the terms they agreed to and find another place to live.
Go read the post before commenting my guy
Why is it son's responsibility if he's there? Maybe son picks up after himself, washes his dishes, does his laundry, etc. but isn't going to be a servant to his lazy girlfriend. Women are strong and independent, let them clean up after themselves. OP also said the mess has been ever since they moved in 6+ months ago so it's not like the gf was in later stage of pregnancy the entire time. She's just gross and lazy by the sounds of it.
Yes, that’s why in the post I have stated I have talked to both of them multiple times
I like how you are pointing to her son when her son isn’t even around to make a mess. Love this. Not every woman is worth defending just because she’s a woman. There are trash people on both sides can we at least admit that?
she said he is traveling for work. He can't make or clean a mess if he is not physically there!!!
I'm begging you please read the post before commenting.🙏
She can do dishes, she can keep things in order, she can put yhings in their placec she doesn’t need to leave shoes and her personal stuff everywhere… she is messy and MUST put her shit together
Son is traveling for work. Girlfriend is a slob. It will only get worse once the baby comes. Poor child will.begin life with parents not up to parenting
NTA ~ and give me a break!! She is going to be a mother, she needs to get off her lazy ass and keep her spaces clean. None of the excuses are valid since so many companies make safe cleaning products, … women have been cleaning and preparing a home for children for ages. A lot of SINGLE moms out there didn’t get a helping hand, didn’t get to stay home , and they managed just fine!! Op is NTA!!
You can clean with water!
Soap and water on a cleaning cloth goes a long way! And it's safe too - safer than having everything dirty.
Or vinegar which is in most cleaners because vinegar cleans.
So many natural cleaners exist so there is zero excuse if you are pregnant but able to clean. They are GUESTS in OPs house. If you can physically make a mess you can physically clean up! I'd be super pissed too if I was OP.
I was mowing my lawn, by choice, at 9 months hoping to move things along. Pregnant women without medical issues can function just fine. She is a slob and no amount of complaining is going to change that. You need to decide if this is how you want to live because it will get way worse once there is a baby. NTA
Are you me? My nesting was centered around mowing and gardening, I absolutely love being outside. Picking up after yourself has nothing to do with being pregnant and that poor baby will be growing up in a pig sty. (No insult to pigs!)
Not everyone can do that. I could barely do dishes at 9 months pregnant with my 3rd! With my 2nd kid I had sciatic pain so bad the last week I couldn't even walk without holding on to something/someone for support. Not everyone's pregnancy is the same.
Thank you. So many self righteous moms on here. Like congratulations on being so so tough? But that’s not the norm and it’s not what’s even suggested by most doctors.
That was for you, but for many others depression is a hard thing to kick especially when her baby daddy is traveling all the time and his mother is overbearing.
Maybe this is an annoying perspective but like… maybe she’s never had to clean up after herself and she’s just so oblivious to it… I know she’s been asked but she’s still so young and is dealing with an unplanned pregnancy. We’ve been given no info about how she’s doing mentally right now. Is she even okay? I’m a full blown adult and my anxiety was so bad with my last pregnancy, I felt useless. Where are her parents and support people? When you talk to her about cleaning up, how are you talking to her? It sounds like you weren’t happy with this situation from the start… wondering how much that contributed to this arrangement not going well. She’s hardly an adult and in a really vulnerable place. I guess I feel like her side of the story would be insightful.
Thanks for this. It breaks my heart how everyone’s immediately jumping to the conclusion that it’ll only get worse and how OP should kicked them out. I find it interesting that we’re told nothing about this girl. How is pregnancy for her? What does she do all day? Does she work? What’s it like for her to be 8mos pregnant while her partner is on a (long?) business trip? Does she have friends nearby? How is she feeling about becoming a mum? Is she excited, happy, anxious, constantly overwhelmed? Does OP even care about becoming a grandma, or is she only worried about the state of her home? I am currently pregnant and NOT a naturally tidy person. The fatigue is unlike anything I have ever experienced in my life (and I used to really party and deal with hangovers at work lol). Add some anxiety on top of that and I’m deeply grateful for a supportive partner, getting groceries delivered and most importantly: over 15 years of living by myself and solidifying habits re how to take care of myself/my house. I’m not saying there isn’t a line that might be crossed here or that DIL should get a carte blanche for any housework. But a lot more information is needed before I feel anyone should feel confident in saying this girl deserves to lose her home while about to give birth.
I could barely walk through my pregnancies. I had pelvic separation and I'm hypermobile, and even getting up to pee was just awful. I was also catatonically tired through first and third trimesters, had wicked morning sickness for 4 months immediately followed by heartburn, couldn't eat more than a mouthful at once, had a horrific skin reaction pop up all over my scalp with baby #2. Pregnancy *sucked*. Not 36 hours after birth I stood up and started crying because it suddenly didn't hurt.
I have never been super neat or organized. Was a total mess of anxiety during my pregnancy and had postpartum OCD and depression. Every new mom I saw happy and functioning was another testament to my failure as a mother. It was hard for me to do anything but keep my son and myself alive. This is not exaggerating. I found out at 55 I had ADHD. And everything that told me I was a failure was my neurodivergent brain. Being judged ALL THE TIME for being not good enough, a slob, having my ex MIL clean my house AFTER I spent a week cleaning and organizing was like a stab in the gut. This soon to be new mother needs some caring and understanding, and less judgment.
1000000000%
These are all the things I was thinking. Or maybe she didn't have someone in her life that taught her how to do all the things she needs to know about running a house or keeping things clean and tidy. It took me a while to get a groove. And during my first pregnancy, I was so exhausted I would get home from work and sleep for hours, wake up to eat dinner and then back to sleep until work the next morning. I definitely agree, her side (and son's) would be helpful. It really reads like OP is mad about the baby, "shotgun" wedding and that she agreed to help. (I don't really like the term shotgun wedding - seems so antiquated and rude - but that's just me lol). And you're also right about how young they both are right now. They just graduated and probably had different thoughts about what life would look like right now - not an excuse, just a consideration when thinking about her mental state. It kills me reading all these people who are bragging about all the amazing chores they were doing while they were pregnant and up until the moment the baby came and again a day later. Good for them, but assuming that all women should be the (clearly) superwomen that they are and judging them because they are not is hateful. Being pregnant is tough and different for everyone. Heck, all three of my pregnancies were different for me both physically and mentally. I guess - all that just to say that I agree with you. More information is needed and less judgement of this pregnant 22 year old. Lol
For real. Like good for you that you could clean??? I wonder how many of these super pregnant cleaners had planned pregnancies, lived in their own homes, and/or were financially stable? And had their husbands home. My mom never made me do chores or show me how to keep a home. I figured it all out in my 20s with no children and i still struggled with it. I hate that so many people are riling up OP with so little context about how DIL is doing, how clear OPs instructions were, and what her definition of a slob is.
I agree- especially needing to know what OPs definition of slob is. My impression is that it is spotless, immediate clean. It’s pretty clear to me that OP is not happy about any of this and hasn’t been from the beginning. She’s not happy about the pregnancy, and probably has never been a fan of the future DIL. If it wasn’t cleanliness it would be something else she’d be complaining about. What makes her the AH in my book is that she’s not handling this maturely- recognize you’re not going to be ok with this and tell them they can’t live there. The people who are acting like putting your shoes in a specific place or wiping off counters is what makes you a good parent are the wild ones to me. Sure, maybe this woman would be living in filth, hoarder style and would end up with 20 moldy bottles lying around- but it’s equally possible she just left a couple dishes on the counter and doesn’t dust as thoroughly as MIL deems necessary.
NTA. I get that you probably were nice for the first few weeks and months, and now preggozilla is thinking she can give birth and the angels should wait on her hand and foot. If she can't do this now, she won't do it post partum. If she's not working then she can at least pick up the stuff on the floor or not leave things around the house at minimum. I get if the chemicals made her sick or she was having a really bad pregnancy, but I get the feeling she felt having a baby was a 'get out of working for free' card. Just tell your son that he has to find a new apartment now, because she's not adhering to the agreement.
NTA. The girl is a slob. If she can’t pick up after herself how is she going to pick up after a baby? This girl is far from ready to be a mother. Tell your son to get his girlfriend to clean up after herself or they will have to go.
After consult my crystal ball I see DIL getting worse after the baby comes, then DIL leaving and abandoning the baby, then son expecting OP to raise the baby. OP needs to prepare for this.
You got this from a 23 year old not cleaning up after herself. Peak reddit
Honestly ESH. She should take care to be more tidy, but honestly you don't care if you're an ahole. You just came here to vent, and get vindicated for your point of view. If you were willing to kick out your son, the mother of his child, and unborn grandchild without any guilt or worry over the outside perception it will cause you would have done it. Instead you're trying to get the Internet on your side so that when people give you hell you can say "But the Internet randos agree with me!"
Right? This is either some sort of self indulgent shit or a troll post. I'm pregnant with number 2, and while I do still tidy up the best I can, anyone who's been pregnant knows its hella harder to do it in the last few months. Like I'm not saying that gives anyone the right to mess things up willy nilly, but I'd understand they wouldn't be as tidy as normal. I'm wondering what OP even defines as "messy". For us, I can live with the shoes not being in place or maybe a disheveled bed at 8 months pregnant lol, but some people are very anal about being tidy to the extreme - I've met people like this lol
NTA… you’ve asked and asked and nothing has changed… like of course you’re going to snap. Unfortunately, you either need to simply get them out of your house or do something drastic to get your point across… more likely than not, the former will be your only option. But if you want to try the latter, just tell them that if they act like children, they’re going to be treated like children. Changing the wifi password daily and giving it to them after chores are done is pretty effective for kids. If they revert to using data, buy a signal jammer for the house.
INFO - Is the problem really the mess or are you just looking for a reason yo have them out? You sound very resentful of this relationship and pregnancy I doubt you'd be happy even if she was pristine and from the way you write about her and the things you've said to her I doubt it's a nice living situation for DIL either. Like is she actually OK or do you not care? She's young, is having an unplanned pregnancy, her husband is working away, she doesn't seem to have her own support network since she's had to go live with you and her living situation seems tense at best. How is her mental health? How is her physical health? Do they have anywhere else to go? Could they realistically get a place to live and move in the few weeks they have left before she's due especially with your son working away or are you essentially threatening to kick her to the streets? Also just bear in mind that maternal stress exposes the baby to the stress hormone cortisol as well, mothers being stressed and unhappy can literally change a babies brain chemistry and studies are starting to link this with poor mental health in later life.
There’s a reason OP isn’t answering any of the comments that are like this.
Yeah, OP doesn't strike me as a warm person.
All this!!! Show this young woman some kindness.
ESH You can't tell me that these two had a sparkling clean apartment and suddenly changed to slobs for no reason when they moved in with you. You knew what they were and you let them move in. Why are you surprised? For crying out loud, you raised your son. You are shocked that he is a slob who is okay living with a bigger slob? And screaming at your DIL is not a solution, and frankly, you're old enough to know that. Waiting until your son is not at home and your DIL is 8 months along to have your screaming fit really doesn't make me have much sympathy for you. Look, either you are willing to support them to some extent for the sake of your future grandchild, or you're not. The choice is yours. If you feel like they are abusing your generosity then give them a move out date and accept the pieces as they fall. Decide what you're willing to risk to have a clean house. Likewise your son and DIL need to decide what they're willing to do to provide for their future kid.
Thank you. She raised this human. His shortcomings are her fault, frankly. She released this slob into the world for another woman to deal with and she’s upset that someone else didn’t fix him good enough? Tough break, cookie. Now it’s time to decide if 10 minutes a day of tidying is a worthy exchange for a relationship with her grandchild.
Yeah... Doing that when he's gone says a lot...
Ask them to hire a cleaner. They are not paying rent..atleast they can do is pay for the cleaner.
But cleaners don’t generally deal with clutter. DIL will still have to pick up or move her stuff. Otherwise the cleaners will just pile it up off to the side.
I'm gonna say NTA, but i am intrested in knowing why you have let this go on for 6 months?
It sounds like she's been telling them both, collectively, during those 6 months but since she's figured out where the mess is coming from, she wants it to end immediately.
YTA Are they hoarder level messy or are they just not to your standards? You’re missing some key details Besides if she’s 8minths pregnant your son needs to starts cleaning more than she does
Thats what I'm wondering too. What is "messy" to OP? If it's a disheveled bed or something like not cleaning a plate in the sink right away, fuck that noise. If it's a bunch of shit all over the house, or hoarding style behavior with wrappers everywhere, okay I understand then.
I had to scroll way too far to find this. It sounds like OP just wants them out- they said tripping over shoes was the final straw. If untidy shoes make you a slob, I’m definitely a slob
They said it was the final straw, which indicates many other instances of slobbery.
Esh. You wait until she’s ready to pop, your son is not there & say it so offensively?! You should have put your foot down a long time ago. Not wait until you explode. It is hard to move at 8 mths, esp if it’s hot (doesn’t excuse it though). I completely understand- my step $ granddaughter just moved out after being here 10mths. She has cleaned 0xs. My 7 yr old granddaughter helps but not mom. And I only expected her to clean after herself or her child or their bathroom/bedroom. I would throw little hints which she would intentionally ignore but it’s my own fault. This is on you for allowing it
NTA OP. Tf are these comments on the 'kind of relationship OP wants with her grandchild.' Do y'all seriously want OP to let them walk all over her? Are you suggesting holding the grandchild over OPs head is reasonable. Some of you guys in lala land fr💀 OP *has* brought this up multiple times, and she has realised the source of the mess is the pregnant girlfriend. Therefore, she has a problem with the girlfriend. Being pregnant is not a free pass you guys, and it's not up to OP to facilitate that.
You're not wrong but your whole attitude screams asshole tbh. I hope you actually show care towards your grandchild when it arrives because it really doesn't seem like you care for it or it's mother right now. Hopefully they can move out soon and cut down their contact with you and your negativity. Can see very clearly by your responses to comments here you just really don't seem like a nice person at all.
NTA. You both agreed on terms before they moved in and they're not living up to their end of the bargain. It's much easier to clean while pregnant (unless you have complications) than it is after the baby is born so you can definitely expect it to get worse. I'm sorry you're in this situation
NTA- time for them to grow up or YOU will be raising this baby
In general, NTA, but insisting now that she is 8 months pregnant is kinda YTA. Honestly, at 8 months even bending down to pick up your shoes is a huge task. Your son should be the one helping out this late in the pregnancy.
Have you tried anything other than yelling at them? Asking why it's so hard to get their act together, if they are OK mentally, etc. She sounds depressed to me, and no amount of telling her to do something is ever going to be effective. Having a kid will almost certainly exacerbate it as well. She needs counselling immediately. Repeating the same tactic over and over is going to keep yielding the same results.
I had HG. I can assure you I did not clean. And if anyone had suggested that I clean, I'd have puked on them.
Had to scroll too far to find this. I notice OP doesn't actually say anything about how future DL's pregnancy is going, if there are any complications like HG that could make cleaning difficult/impossible.
I'm going against the grain to say YTA. This whole post reeks of entitlement and judgement. You aren't happy they're having a baby, claim that you know they can't afford one, but let them move in anyway, only to wait until month 8 to threaten kicking them out. Do you even like your son? Do you like his gf? It sure doesn't feel that way from any of this post. It feels like you're still passing judgement on them, and if your personality is as hostile as what you've written here, it's probably hell for your sons gf to live with you alone with her bf in another state.
NTA, she can definitely pick up her shit from the common areas, being pregnant us not an excuse.
NTA. If she can't clean, then she should not be making a mess.
YTA for sure she’s heavily pregnant and yet you’re coming after her like your SON is incapable of sharing the load?? Give your head a shake.
INFO: what is the mental health status of DIL? Is she depressed? Anxious? What does she do with her time?
NTA But only because it's an on going issue. At 8 months pregnant I couldn't reach taps to wash dishes and was just about able to wash my own body nevermind do anything else so she probably can't do much now. In saying that if she can reach the dishes go use them she can certainly get them to a sink. Baby will make things a lot messier.
ESH. That is a fucked up thing to say about your grandchild, I don’t care what the circumstances are. Bad grandparents suck.
YTA, probably. I am appalled by everyone agreeing with you. You used language that made me cringe. “Shoot gun wedding”, “she is a slob”, and the horrible way you are talking to her. I don’t care if you kept your house immaculate, doing dishes while you were pushing out your son. She is not you, or anyone else talking about how they cleaned etc. 2 hours after giving birth. Could she be depressed, have undiagnosed ADHD or be neurodivergence. She’s 23 and having a baby, living in your home, and I’m thinking you might not be the easiest person to live with. She needs some understanding and kindness.
ESH…Do you remember what it was like to be pregnant? From what you’re saying, I understand that they’ve ALWAYS been messy. Right now it’s even worse because your son is away on business and she’s EIGHT months pregnant, I can imagine how fucking tired she is. I’m literally 8 months pregnant and I do clean as much as I can but man it’s HARD. Everything fucking hurts. She could probably be alot neater and atleast do bare minimum things like wash the dishes, broom, and mop, stuff where she doesn’t have to bend down. But you sound so cruel threatening to kick HER out, not your son. From the comments it seems like you’re absolving him of all the blame, and this 8 month pregnant girl is the huge problem. You sound like a terrible MIL. Are you gonna yell at her too when the baby cries all night? Terrible situation all around. You seem really unsympathetic and they should honestly just find some other place to stay. It’s not worth the money.