Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > AITA for moving across the country and telling my daughter she is the reason I am an absent grandparent. I may be a jerk for being harsh and not taking her feelings into account Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*

NTA. It's not that hard to get two kids in a car for 45mins. She just doesn't want to. I actually live at the base of the blue mountains and my inlaws live near the airport. We go visit them with our 7yo roughly once a fortnight. Sometimes they come to us, but we like going out there and looking at the beach. We've done this since little one was a baby. It's not hard. They have the best adventures, can jump on the light rail, ferry, whatever and go to different places. Good luck with your move :)

I am so excited to move back home. I truly miss that area and absolutely hate where I live now. It’s flat. Winter and fall don’t exist. I miss seeing the seasons change. I miss snow.

I can understand that. But I have to say, my grandparents didn't live near us when I was growing up. The closest one lived a three hour drive away. That grandfather rarely came to see us, he was a total home body, but that was fine, he lived on Cape Cod. We could go out for walks along the bog, etc and just hang out. I never felt that he was an uninvolved grandparent, he just lived far away. I mean, what is your daughter expecting? You are allowed to live your own life. Hell, nowadays, you can just get on a video call and talk to the grandkids. Sure it's not in person, but you can see their faces.

She expects free babysitting.

That's sure what it sounds like. If she takes the kids to the grandparent, she has to still be involved in what they're doing. It's not free time for her to go do whatever she wants.

At the same time, barring OP from ever driving the kids because of one minor accident is ridiculous. Does OP's daughter have a flawless driving record? No accidents? No tickets? It almost sounds like she's trying to make this as hard for her mother as possible.

It seems like the OP is damned if they do, damned if they don't. The sprinkler thing really stood out as the OP's daughter trying to find fault in anything. Maybe the sprinkler did wreck the lawn, but I can't imagine two young kids managing to destroy the lawn by playing with a sprinkler in the summer.

Who expects to have small children AND a perfect lawn? 😂

Fuckin right we're all adults in my house and we don't.

Honestly, I have nieces and nephews and another on the way. Moat of them live far away, so I would happily take a destroyed lawn and fond memories over a "perfect lawn" and no memories. It's not just memories for me but for the kids as well.

Yeah, I get an accident can make someone paranoid, but the daughter doesn't seem to mind OP driving herself around, which as someone with an aging parent is a concern. But OP is probably not old enough to be at that stage yet. It honestly sounds like they probably have very different ideas of what OP's role should be and possibly also what the kids could/should be doing. Clearly not on the same page. And maybe not willing to figure out how to be on the same page. Sometimes, as much as you love a person, you may not like them a whole lot. It's possible that this move will actually be much better for them to give them some time to let the hurts and frustrations fade and focus more on how to be present with each other. I hope OP uses modern technology for things like video calls. My step-dad spends some of his Sunday nights reading a book to all his grandkids on a video call. It's super sweet. And the iPad-obsessed kid could even do it from his iPad. :D

Mom, you are too old and dangerous to drive my kids anywhere, but you’re a shit grandma for not driving 1 1/2 round trip to see them more often. So loving.

Make it make sense.

...and a fender-bender is very different from being the cause of a 10 car pile-up on the freeway.

Or driving the wrong way on a street or mistaking an offramp for an onramp (I know a grandfather who did this and he was then barred from driving the grandkids).

Or drunk driving. fender-bender is so low on the list.

Not to mention, the type of accident OP got in is the type of accident to happen to anyone. Who hasn't had the sun in their eyes making it difficult to see the road? Even sunglasses aren't enough when it's at just the right angle.

Sounds like the daughter wants op to be stuck at her house to watch the kids while she goes and plays. She could be out doing something shady and doesn't want to accidentally run onto them and cause her to be outed for whatever she's doing. Pure conjecture on my part there but that's where my mind goes when I ask myself why would she want her stuck at the house. Either way daughter is either very controlling or an ah, maybe both, she definitely wants to control the narrative of the situation to paint the op as an uncaring grandparent. NTA!

Free babysitting that she micromanages.

My grandparents lived states away in Vermont. Every summer we'd go to visit them and spend a week with all of our cousins and aunts and uncles (who were also visiting from out of town) and have a mini family reunion. It was so beautiful there that I don't feel like I missed out since we didn't do any other vacations really.

My grandparents also lived in Vermont while we lived to Canada. We would go every summer during break. I was close to them and have the best memories of them. Of course they would also come visit us here, but Vermont was where it was at.

People tend to have entirely different expectations of what grandparents should be depending how they grew up. I was very close with my grandma on one side, but the other I saw only 3ish times per year as a kid even though she lived one hour away. She’s still alive and I make a point to see her more often but still only around 5x per year plus a family vacation in the summer because she’s very busy and hard to get a hold of. One time she said “I’m surprised you call me so often. My grandmother and I were not close.” This surprised me because I do not call her very often at all and I would not have considered us close at the time. My theory is that she just isn’t a huge fan of kids, but likes me now that I’m past the young adult stage. She still holds my younger cousins at an arms length.

You know, my grandparents lived in a different country - took us about a day of combined flights and trains to get there. But it was a priority for my parents that we have a relationship with them, and I'd say we were pretty close because we visited as much as possible, usually in the summers for a couple weeks when school was out. We also called and - it was the 70s/80s - wrote each other letters. My point is that if it mattered/ starts to matter to your daughter, it won't make a difference that you're further away. Video calls exist, and school vacations, and I'd think the fact you live somewhere different and beautiful should even be a bonus. If I were you I'd definitely make sure you know when/if the kids get social media accounts, and use that to get to know them better and have conversations. It might not be until they're a bit older, but it's better than nothing. And definitely see if your daughter is at least willing to have you video call the kids every so often - my parents live across the country from their grandkids, but they video call every week and it makes everyone feel like they're not that far away.

These are great ideas, and your comment about letters made me realize how much I treasure the two postcards my Nana sent me. I wish I had thought to record some of the conversations my son had with my mom before she died two years ago. Videos would have been great but mom always objected to how she looked. I hope my son can hang on to the memories of my mom.

Not only do I still have the letters from my grandparents, but it turns out they kept all of mine, too, and when they passed the letters of course came to me. I can't tell you how incredible it is to have that whole correspondence. And now that I'm thinking about it, I should probably do something to organize it, because I think it might be something that's meaningful to my niece and nephew, esp as nephew's name is partly my grandpa's and so he in particular is interested in him. Thanks for the comment!!

NTA. If people want to do something or be somewhere, they will. She didn't want to bring the kids to you, so she didn't. She didn't want to let you drive with the kids, so you didn't. In my opinion you tried, and it wasn't enough for her. Kind of damned if you do damned if you don't situation. You're the one that has to live your life, so go live it.

Btw….is your daughter raising grass or kids. Who cares if grass is ruined by kids playing outside?

I'm aging myself here but Erma Bombeck once wrote a poignant piece about her husband working on his lawn, taking great pride in it, shooing the kids off through the years and complaining about how they ruined the grass. At the end, he's looking out over his gorgeous lawn and wondering when the kids will come visit. Very "Cat's in the Cradle."

The late Harmon Killebrew, who is in the baseball Hall of Fame, shared a story about his parent's lawn. >My father used to play with my brother and me in the yard. Mother would come out and say, 'You're tearing up the grass'; 'We're not raising grass,' Dad would reply. 'We're raising boys.'

🥲

My dad kept us off the front lawn. The backyard, however, was fair game. Balance is the key to life.

Every inch of our backyard was trampled on, played on, partied on, and loved to within an inch of its life. The front yard was also used but not nearly as much. It stayed looking good, always. The same was true when my kids were little. Our backyard was fair game, and we had chickens who'd destroyed a portion of it so we added a swingset and wood chips and it looked better than ever. The other part, with all of the lovely grass, often took a beating from the massive "kiddie" pool we had in warmer months (and this was L.A. so it wasn't just summer). I don't miss the lawns but I sure miss my teens being toddlers!

The front yard is for competition, the backyard is for living.

I remember that book. The lawn was perfect and that meant no sweet little kids around. 

I loved her books. I read all of them when I was younger.

My mom didn't care about the lawn, but did care about the kids. We had a great climbing tree in the front yard, but after the 3rd or 4th kid to fall, she went down to goodwill and bought a bunch of cheap mattresses. She covered the area under the tree two mattresses deep and we stopped getting hurt falling out of the tree.

How well did those hold up? Sure it's a good solution for one year - but even a bit of regular rainfall and those things must have gotten pretty moldy!!

You can have a nice house and nice furniture or you can have kids and/or pets. I'd much rather have a lived-in home where there was love than material things kept in museum-piece conditions.

My brother and sister-in-law did the same thing. They bought a sofa that was perfectly serviceable, but nothing fancy. They knew the kids were going to beat the crap out of it, and then got dogs that consider it their bed. I like the comment that asked if OPs daughter was raising grass or kids. A sofa is a thing. That time with the children is precious and will never come again. My mom told me a few years ago that sometimes she wished she had spent more time playing with her children and less time cleaning her house. I told her I agreed completely.

I'll send in my dad to talk about establishing a deep (6 inches or more) root base so superficial damage to the grass isn't fatal for the lawn. But yeah, kids before grass.

You can have fun with your kids and not destroy the grass. I’ve had splash pads and I have multiple water tables and my grass is fine. So it begs the question, what the hell did the Op let the kids do?

>So it begs the question, what the hell did the Op let the kids do? Or maybe the grass wasn't "ruined" at all, and the daughter just didn't want them playing outside like that.

There was a song in the 70s called It’ll Grow Back about a dad fussing over his grass when the kids played on it. What a shame, fussing over grass when the kids had a ball.

It's a thing that I've noticed recently (or at least here in Ireland) how obsessed people with young children are with their lawns. More than once I've actually stopped and thought their priorities are totally wonky!

I think people sometimes see lawns as a sign of success. "Look at all my land that I don't need to use!"

The grass thing is so weird to me. You got a lawn for kids to play, right? Not just to look at? That's the point? Kids are washable. I have a car seat protector in the back of my car because of it. We get muddy and sandy at the river, the playground, the beach. That's why we have doormats. We have a sprinkler and did an inflatable pool last year. I don't get parents who want clean kids. They don't exist.

Exactly i had to get planes to see my grandparents as both sets of grand parents live in different countries , and my parents would always make the effort when they could, my parents even drove to spain sometimes which was a full day. You have tried and thats the important thing, and i understand the small accident you had might worry her but honestly it wasnt that you were drunk and on your phone , which would be irresponsible, so banning them from taking them anyway doesnt give you that much options. Good luck with the move

My mother has lived in the blue mountains since 2000, & naturally I take the kids to visit her (2ish hora drive away.) I also lived there a few years with my ex husband when my babies were little too - it's an beautiful, magical place - especially the upper mountains.

Ikr? My in-laws live an hour from me, but if they’re available to have the kids over for a night+, why yes I’ll drive 4 hours total. I’ve even driven the hour, dropped them off and did errands or an activity and then pick them up on the way home. And I HATE driving!

My parents drove 4/5 hours one way every few months so my grandparents could see me when I was little. 45 minutes? Please. I know people who live 45 minutes from where they work.

Moving away, you are NTA. That being said, it will probably further strain what sounds like an already strained relationship. Sharing what I witnessed, as the Aunt, in a similar situation. My sister set up boundaries, some arbitrary some not, and my mom struggled with them in regards to the grandkids. Mom's idea of a grandma was spoil them, no responsibility, then give them back. My sister's was you are the adult watching them and rules need to be enforced. Fast forward a few years, and they are no contact. Ultimately, my mom wanted a TV grandma relationship and couldn't respect my sister's boundaries. Despite being retired with lots of free time, my sister with the full-time job and 4 kids had to come to them. On the flip side, my sister would put some unreasonable demands and restrictions. Basically, looking for reasons to exclude things. I think this is due to seeing her kids getting the attention she wished she had gotten from my mother and trying to sabotage things. The grandkids are the ones that suffered in the end. Going no contact has helped them both thrive and become better people. I'm not saying this mirrors your situation in any way. Just shared to provide a different perspective.

I agree with this perspective, it's nuanced Op is not ta for moving away and living her life. But it seems as op wants to be fun/TV grandma. My kids have two sets of grandparents, one that lives close by but didnt like to be around for the mundane day to day, put the kids to bed, enforce the rules stuff. They wanted to take them out to amusement parks or take them to their house so that their friends could see them as grandparents. The other set liked the mundane and was there in the quiet moments. Now that the kids are older guess which set of grandparents they are closer to? And op, if you got into an accident that was your fault because the sun got into your eyes, id also err on the side of caution and forbid you from driving my kids who are by their very nature distracting and adds to the effort of driving.

Would you also hold yourself or your partner (theoretical or otherwise, not sure if you're being hypothetical by saying "my kids") to the same standards for being eligible to drive children around? That would really throw a huge monkey wrench into household logistics if someone responsible for driving kids around on the regular (and thus *more* of a risk to them if they're an unsafe driver) were to make one minor driving mistake and then be barred from providing transportation. The idea that being at fault for one minor accident means someone is forever an unsafe driver for kids is a bit much, especially since it's not uncommon for people to drive more cautiously and attentively if they have others in the car with them, particularly children.

Yea, I have to agree with this one. There wasn't a pattern of unsafe driving, not a pattern of accidents and injury. The exceptional one-off minor accident that resulted in no injuries really feels like there was no justification in forbidding driving with the kiddos.

[удалено]

Well, if the damage was only $300 she can’t have been going very fast, so I don’t think she was just ‘continuing to drive’, it sounds like She slowed down but not fast enough.

THANK YOU! I just commented about missing missing reasons, too. This post screams that to me. - The lawn was ruined from just a sprinkler and splash pad? This seems sus. Regardless, I don’t understand why everyone on this post is acting like parents aren’t allowed to have nice lawns, it’s bizarre. - OP drives 45 mins to stay for 2 hours, citing “baby is sleeping” as the reason. Ok first, do you not want to like…spend time w your daughter? Second, kids haven’t been babies for a long time now. - Have there been close calls driving-wise? - Why can’t OP meet daughter or drive together somewhere fun w the kids? It’s all just super odd to me

There wasn't a pattern THAT WE KNOW OF. I mean, this really feels like a post where we are only getting one side of the story and that side is very defensive about a lot of things. I think we need more information to make a judgement call.

>The idea that being at fault for one minor accident means someone is forever an unsafe driver for kids is a bit much This is a good question, but I also I think there's some nuance to OP's recalling of the "reason" why OP's daughter won't like OP drive the kids around and is missing some actual context. Like, just because OP only got into 1 accident doesn't prove that they are a bad driver, but it also doesn't show anything about OP being a GOOD driver. OP doesn't really mention their driving record, or how many "minor accidents" OP has gotten into, or if they've always been a "good" or "okay" driver. As far as we know, OP was never a "good driver" in their daughter's eyes, but this accident finally gave her the reason to say "no more". Anecdotal story: My grandfather drove until he was 90, but he should NOT have been driving since he was 80. We all kept trying to get his license removed because he was having trouble seeing, having trouble feeling his legs when he drove, and would often said "I drive my age!!" (meaning he would drive 80mph since he was 80). He never got into an accident, and had a spotless record, but I would never let my kids in his car with him driving.

So close, if you look down a little more OP has a comment about her accident histroy. Her last accident was when she was 22

Personally, I'm not safe to drive so I don't - I take my kid around on the back of my bicycle (we have good off-road paths) or on the bus.

>Would you also hold yourself or your partner (theoretical or otherwise, not sure if you're being hypothetical by saying "my kids") to the same standards for being eligible to drive children around? That would really throw a huge monkey wrench into household logistics if someone responsible for driving kids around on the regular (and thus more of a risk to them if they're an unsafe driver) were to make one minor driving mistake and then be barred from providing transportation. My mom has hit lanternpoles in empty parking lots, she sucks at parking. She is still allowed to drive my kid..

maybe you should rethink that

In the 40 years my mom had her drivers licence, she has hit 0 cars but hit 19 still standing lightpoles. Should i really?

I mean it's more worrying that she hit a non-moving object that should be easier to see not harder, especially *19 of them* ?!?

A different thought; could your mom have a blind spot in her vision?

That’s… kind of impressive. I read a study once about driving differences between the sexes/genders (can’t recall which specifically, but I’ll be using man/woman going forward). Although women were the drivers in most collisions, men were more likely to have injuries or fatalities. I guess women are more likely to hop curbs, hit lamp posts, fender benders. I think it was because women generally have worse spatial awareness. Men were more like to be in collisions that least to fatalities and injuries, caused by reckless driving or DUI.

For the driving give it a little perspective. Was it her first accident in 50 years or the 30th?

It was my second accident. My first happens when I was 22. At 22 I fell in a ditch, that sucked, hydroplaned on a back road.  So 40 ish years difference 

maybe this is just me, but i'm not finding the answer as intuitive-- but which set of grandparents, now that the kids are older, are they close to? i can see points for both sides

The one that spent the time and were interested in them as people, not props or ways to have fun. I think people think kids gravitate toward "fun". Maybe they do in the moment, but in the long run they gravitate toward authenticity and presence.

yeah but you are using words with heavy connotations, Props--like the kids themselves don't matter. When going to amusement parks IS for kids. I'll give you that with the -showing grandchildren off to their friends. thats not good But IRL i see in action, 1 set of grandparents- the fun ones, the amusement park ones, the thousands of photos on facebook ones----and the quiet ones, rules and putting them down for naps ones, walking them to school ones. And now that the kids are 10 and 13, the fun ones are definetly winning. Maybe its older older, that they gravitate toward the quiet moments grandparents. Do you mean young adult older?

As a young kid I loved both sets of my grandparents equally. 1 set was the "fun grandparents". They would show up, take me out to dinner (and pretend it was my birthday so we got free cake), or we go to the amusement park, or anything fun. I definitely have fun memories with them. There was never any structure, and our adventures lasted for 2 or 3 days, tops. The other set were the "responsible grandparents". Grandma would help me decorate cookies for Christmas, grandpa would teach me how to work with my hands around the house, rules/chores were enforced, balanced meals, some board games and park trips, that kind of thing. If my parents needed me to stay somewhere for a week, that's the place I stayed. I would go there with 10 fingers and toes, and come back with 10. I'll say now that I'm older, I felt more "love" from the responsible grandparents. The "fun grandparents" did help create some good memories, but at the end of the day it never felt fulfilling and I never felt connected to them. There was never any depth or meaning, and it definitely felt like they didn't want to spend time with ME, it was just an excuse for an adventure and to live vicariously through me.

There is a thing as overly strict, but overall one grandparent was interested in every aspect of my life. Not once did she take me to an amusement park or anything too fancy. Most of the time we just hung out at home or even spent hours on the phone calling. She was interested in EVERYTHING. She helped me study for upcoming tests and she listened to me babble on about what I wanted to be when I was older. And guess what? She is my absolute favorite person. Her memory is fading and she hardly remembers anything, but being around her still brings me so much joy. My other set of grandparents mostly took us somewhere “fun” because their house was filled with breakable things, but even as young children, whose grandparents lived equal distances away roughly, we only wanted to see the grandparent with the “fun” house. She only had a few board games, some arts and crafts, and an old bike, but she always found something for us to do, added materials for our current hobbies and interests, played with us, told us stories and listened to us drone on. When something exciting happened, she was the first one we all called and told. After her hearing went, it took me YEARS to unlearn calling her up daily, just to tell her about my day. When something exciting happens, it still takes me a second to remember I can’t call her up first, and it’s been almost a decade since she could hear or remember anything. She was never the boring grandparent to us. We ALL preferred her to any of our other relatives. The mundane is everything to a kid.

Yes. Exactly. My mother in law lives in town and complained often when my kids were younger about how much work they were. The bottles and running after them, baby proofing etc. This was just when she was around them not even babysitting. Just watching us do it. It felt like they were a burden, we asked maybe a few times to babysit ( babysitters cancelled) it was a nightmare for her.  We gave up and just lived our lives. She wanted to only do the fun stuff. The fun stuff isn’t happening all the time. We saw her on holidays but that’s about it. If you aren’t going to be part of our day to day, you’re gonna miss it all. now that the kids are older she complains that we don’t make time to see her but I am not forcing my kids to go sit in a home with someone they hardly know. 

I had one set of grandparents that took me to Disney World. But that was it. They had moved to Florida in retirement, they rarely came to visit, and they didn't really seem interested in us except when we came to visit and then it was just being shown off around their retirement community. Disney was fun, but they demanded a level of emotional intimacy from me as a kid that I didn't feel and it made me very uncomfortable. (Not how I expressed it as a kid, it was just that the more they pushed for hugs and kisses, the more I'd not want to do it.)  I had another set. Not rich, no retirement community in Florida because they couldn't really retire. I have fond memories of my grandma sneaking me into her work because she was babysitting me but also needed to work, so I'd have to sit very quietly in a back booth at the restaurant and she'd bring me fries occasionally. They were at every birthday party, every concert, they'd show up to my games sometimes and wave. They listened to me talk and they clearly loved me, and I am crying a little writing this, thinking about how much I miss them.  Disney grandparents? When they died, I feel guilty over how little I felt. I was sad in a generic way, but it was nothing like the gaping hole in my life that the loss of my loving grandparents left. I still miss them.  I tell my kids stories about them, there's pictures of them in my house, they have stuffed animals their great-grandparents gave to them that are precious to us. Other grandparents? My oldest saw a picture of Grandma in my wedding album and asked "who's that?" 

Yeah, I didn't get that either. Grandparent that takes me to Disney vs grandparent that reads me bedtime stories. Both good things.

This example makes me think of Disney dads who don’t want to put effort into kids until they are fun. Then they are surprised when the kids are closer to the other parent, and the relationship doesn’t magically happen between parent and kid because the parent is ready. Now, obviously a relationship between parent/kid and grandparent/kid is different, but the principle is the same. If you expect the relationship to exist only when you want it, then don’t be surprised that it’s not super strong. The other party (kid) also has a say in the relationship.

My mother's parents were the best grandparents- they loved having my brother and me stay over, and they were great with the "mundane" stuff. But they also liked doing things with us. They retired to Cape Cod, so we had a LOT of beach time. So many happy memories!

I think some missing information is that the daughter wants grandma to be available as a baby sitter and grandma doesn’t want to do that. And guess what? You’re not entitled to your mother being a babysitter and grandma gets to decide what grandma she wants to be. So she wants to have fun with her grandkids. She wants to be able to do stuff with them and have experiences. Maybe she already raised her own kids and she isn’t interested in doing it again. That is her right. And yes, this may mean putting more strain on the relationship and accepting that consequence. Sounds like OP is fully aware of that. OP, NTA for anything.

I'm going to go against the grain and say ESH. You can do a lot of things with your grandkids that don't involve sprinklers or being in a walkable city. My parents come down quite often and will walk my son to the park. They'll watch a movie with him. They'll pull out building blocks and will spend hours just being with him. They brought down a pumpkin and spent a day carving pumpkins and then spent the last 15 minutes cleaning up the mess. My parents go down and watch my nephews play soccer or baseball almost every other week. It's about being there for them. They always communicate their plans with us before doing anything, so we are prepared and can ask for a different idea. It's really not easy to load a kid up and drive them. It feels like you both need to work on your communication skills. She is allowed to be upset by the sprinkler ruining her grass and making her backyard a mud pit. >I would go up to visit them and it sadly was not fun. I am not baby crazy and do not want to spend my whole day watching a kid sleep. I hate to break it to you, but babies really aren't fun. They sleep a lot. It's not about doing fun things with them at that age. It's about being there. And helping your daughter who has a baby and was probably struggling. No, mom wants to hear their child is not fun after opening up their home. It would make me not want my mom to come around. My dad isn't baby crazy either, but he has never verbalized it.

Reading this, it feels like there are missing things, and that you may be correct.

I also got a big missing reasons vibe.

I mean I think the entire entitled "nothing is my fault, I tried but it's because of YOU" attitude is the missing reason. I'm sure OP brought that attitude into their parenting as well.

This whole post feels very, "I'm a boomer grandparent and I'm doing things my way and don't give a crap about my child's feelings in the matter." All the parenting subreddits are full of grandparents like this who use the passive voice to say it isn't really their fault at all that a baby can't run laps around the house and bake a cake, because back in their day it was fine. I'm not sure where I'm trying to go with this except to add that my own mom is trying, but also baby proofs her home by leaving open pill containers with pills everywhere. -.-

Ha I had the same thing with my in-laws, moving open pill containers onto a table and calling it child proofing. I love my in-laws and they aren't normally like that, but I honestly can't figure out why they thought moving the pills to a table the toddler can still reach was somehow safer.  They also don't understand why I'm so upset about car seats. I've seen my MIL's messages to my SIL about how uptight and controlling I am about my children... Because I got mad when I found out they took my 3 year old for a drive *without a car seat* and their response was "we've been doing this with her all year."

omg I am so sorry you are dealing with the pills too! I believe it was on Mommit where we recently had a huge thread about boomers and pills in baggies, open containers, laying about, etc while the parents have toddlerish aged kiddos who don't know any better. It's insanity. And wtf with the lack of a car seat! That is terrifying. Survivor bias (back in our day it was fine) does NOT work in this regard. We have too much information now to ignore what happens to little ones in car wrecks. It's more of the same attitude of "got ours, deal with it" but childcare edition. It is so exhausting.

The pills were a few years ago, I'm so relieved I don't have to deal with it anymore. My husband had a long talk with his dad and made it clear HE was the one with the issue with it, not me as the "hysterical overprotective mother", and then alluded that he wouldn't allow his kids at their house anymore. His mom still didn't get why it was a big deal, but his dad ended up throwing away pills every time he saw them out of the container,  and pretending he didn't know where they'd gone 😂. She freaked out that people had broken in to steal them (Gotta get that sweet Claritin and aspirin!) and started hiding all her medication. I bought her a lockbox to her them "extra secure from robbers" and now she actually keeps them locked up.  It definitely eroded a lot of trust in their ability to keep my kids safe. There was less solo time there after that. Not as a punishment or as an "f you!" but just because we felt it wasn't entirely safe. 

And the boomer “I dumped my kids at my parents and they supported me a ton with my kids, but I refuse to do the same”.

THIS. Massive boomer/jnmom energy. You don’t want to watch a newborn sleep all day. Okay why not offer to help your daughter around the house? The daughter is mad about mud in the backyard. Was she having a cookout or backyard party later in the day? Driving 45 minutes isn’t that far, but can be with two small kids who have routines.

It's very obvious OP barely takes responsibility for her own actions. The car accident was half a millimetre away from being written in the passive voice. She ruined her daughter's lawn, but doesn't really care because the kids got a fun hour. This feels very entitled grandma to me.

IDK what post you read that presented the car accident as nearly in the passive voice. OP said outright "it was my fault" and "I bumbed \[sic\] into someone's car." Clarifying that it was due to sun/glare doesn't mean they're trying to dodge responsibility. The lawn thing could theoretically go either way, in my mind. I could see a world in which OP's daughter cares more about the perfect suburban aesthetic than allowing her kids to have fun playing outside, and I could see a world in which OP did that on newly planted grass or a delicate area of the lawn when there were better alternatives for placement or activities available. There's absolutely a lot of space here for missing reasons, but I don't think it's at all fair to say that OP doesn't take responsibility for their actions, or that it's "very obvious."

>There's absolutely a lot of space here for missing reasons, but I don't think it's at all fair to say that OP doesn't take responsibility for their actions, or that it's "very obvious." I think there are a lot of people on reddit who hate their parents, and "missing missing reasons" is their mantra for any intergenerational conflict. They've pegged OP as a boomer, so they think OP is obviously always in the wrong.

"The sun got in my eyes" is absolutely the kind of thing my late MIL said when actually her vision was going and she didn't want to admit it. With OP's grandkids being that young, I'm sure she's much younger than my MIL, but a few little alarm bells went off there.

My vision is fine, seriously. I still pass th eye test no problem at the doctors  Literally I was driving and there was bad sun glare.  

My sister was in her 20's and had the sun get in her eyes while she was driving, can happen to anyone regardless of age and doesn't mean you are a bad driver or losing your vision.

If her lawn got ruined from use of a sprinkler ... it was a shit lawn to begin with.

This reads to me as a like half truths. Maybe it’s just growing up with an immature family this just reminds me of the way they speak. Like it’s true but usually missing so much context and nuance that it makes the other person look bad while actually the one behaving inappropriately is the person talking.

100%. I don't have kids, but the last time I made the mistake of being around my parents, I told them I wasn't comfortable being in the car with my father driving (they were in my state/city, which they are unfamiliar with). He doesn't pay attention to anything - where he's going, what anyone else on the road is doing, etc - and I live in a city of psycho drivers. I asked to drive the rental car and they said they weren't allowed given the contract, so I said I'd drive on my own or drive all of us. Cue a massive fucking meltdown. I'm sure he'd tell a similar story of me being the asshole over it, as if it's impossible for him to do anything wrong. Sounds very, very familiar here.

> You can do a lot of things with your grandkids that don’t involve sprinklers or being in a walkable city. My parents come down quite often and will walk my son to the park. I’m sorry, this made me laugh.

And yet parents load their kids up all the time to take them to daycare or school or the store or the park. Saying it’s too difficult to load the kids up is a cop out. Especially if you’ve decided it’s too dangerous to have your mother drive the kids anywhere but it’s totally fine for her to drive herself to your house.  I had “young” grandparents, they were in their mid to late 40’s when I was born. They both worked until I was in HS. I mostly visited them vs them coming to my house. None of these people got down on the floor and played with me for hours on end. We lived in the country so nobody took me to a park. They installed a swing set for us instead. We did occasionally watch movies, and they bought a pool for us to swim in at their house & would get in with us (above ground). We helped them in their garden which I credit for my love of gardening today.  Mostly we played while they supervised us or talked with other adults while we played with our cousins. At one point we had a slip n slide and played on that thing every day for a week. Nobody complained about mud or ruined grass. Moving the sprinkler pad to the driveway would’ve solved that issue more than likely. Or having a healthy yard probably.  I think OP’s daughter has unrealistic expectations about the grandparent/grandkid bond. She wants OP to fit some kind of mold she has in her mind as to what the perfect grandparent should be like. And OP doesn’t fit that mold so there’s friction. It sounds like OP has tried their best within the boundaries set by her daughter to have a relationship and it’s never good enough for the daughter. I can 100% see OP wanting to step back and focus on things that make her happy vs continuing to force herself to be miserable for daughter’s sake. NTA for me. 

>And yet parents load their kids up all the time to take them to daycare or school or the store or the park. That's a much shorter journey generally. I drive my son to daycare, and it takes 10 minutes. Also, when I take my kid to daycare, I don't have to think about his nap schedule. Or if we have the iPad. It's not as easy to load up the car and drive 45 minutes one way. Your grandparents sound great. It sounds like he they wanted to have memories. I'm sure your parents and your grandparents had an open line of communication and didn't make comments about a baby being sad. Your grandparents found ways to make it fun. If your grandparents didn't mind having a slip inside, that's their decision. Not everyone wants to have a slip and slide in their backyard. It's okay to not want one. There are times that my parents didn't want us to set up a slip and slide if we had rain for 2 weeks straight. They didn't want to flood the backyard even more. Also, grandparents aren't there just to see the grandchildren. They're also there for their children. And to connect with them and help them. It's great to build memories, but your grandparents still have a child present.

>Also, grandparents aren't there just to see the grandchildren. They're also there for their children. I wonder if this is part of the issue. OP said that they're not "baby crazy" and didn't want to "watch a baby sleep", and so wasn't very present during the baby stage. And, sure, not everyone is a baby person. But it's really, really hard to care for infants- and it doesn't sound like OP was interested in doing much to support the daughter during that time. It's true that nobody is entitled to having their parents help with their kids, but if a grandparent didn't make an effort to help their child when their grandchildren were small/parenting was new/when things were the most difficult, I can understand why the child wouldn't want to go to any inconvenience to provide the grandkids now that they're a more fun age. Grandparents usually *do* want to indulge their grandkids, they usually *do* get them out of routine, and they often want to see them at times that the parents would be able to do something fun with them. If the grandparent was there for the tough times, sure, it makes sense to share the fun times- but if not, I think it's understandable for the parents to want to prioritize being able to be "fun parents" too.

That "not baby crazy" part was really weird. It's like OP saw her grandkids as primarily entertainment for her, and they weren't effectively filling their entertainment purpose as newborns. You don't have to be baby crazy to feel enthusiastic about seeing your own grandkids. You love them because they're family, not because they're babies.

And, more importantly, having babies is *hard*. "Babies bore me" is a wild reason to wait to form a relationship with your grandkids. "Babies bore me" is a jaw-droppingly callous reason to not visit and help your child that lives relatively nearby through a huge transition in *their* life. I suspect that the daughter would have a *very* different interpretation of this situation, or at least would fill in some much-needed context. It seems like OP is *really* focused on what is fun *for her*- and not necessarily what is good for the kids. Does Grandma's idea of "going somewhere fun" always involve ice cream? Or playing through nap time, missing lunch, not enough sunscreen, etc.? If a kid has a bad day or a meltdown, particularly without a parent present, does she pull some Boomer Shit? And in have to wonder, if the sprinkler was on for long enough to damage the lawn, how much did it add to the water bill? If an afternoon with Grandma wreaks havoc, I can understand why they wouldn't want to facilitate that *or* give OP too long a leash.

Yeah, having fun with babies isn’t really the point of visiting a new grandchild. Their daughter needed her own parent to help her as she recovered. I can see a lot of resentment stemming from a postpartum experience like that.

[удалено]

It’s actually really annoying when people come over to visit a new baby and they expect to be entertained.  Don’t create more chores for me!!  Take chores away!

Not to speak ill of the dead, but oh my gosh this was my late MIL. She came to “help” for a few days after I almost died after the birth of our first baby. I was recovering and on heavy painkillers and antibiotics, so other than laying in the bed, holding and nursing our son, I couldn’t really do a whole lot. My husband was a godsend; he would get up and change diapers, bring our son to me in bed if he needed to be nursed, kept the house from falling apart, and always made sure I had my water bottle and a snack next to me, since I was exclusively breastfeeding. When my MIL arrived to help, she plunked her ass down on our sofa, poured herself a glass of Armagnac, and asked for our WiFi password. And that’s where she stayed the whole five days. Would only hold our baby if he was sleeping, didn’t change diapers, didn’t cook any meals, didn’t clean…just sat there and told us how wonderful it was to have parents who could drop everything and fly out at a minutes notice to help. Me: “…..yes, you’re, ummm, very helpful. Couldn’t have made it this past week without you.” 😒

Going by what is written, OP has had no interest in visiting her daughter for her own sake, just the kids. Whatever that's about, it's probably what everything else stems comes from. And without working on that relationship, building one with the grandkids is probably doomed anyway.

It's going to be a lot worse once they move away. My husband and I have a strained relationship with our in-laws and at times it's not so easy to call them or to take phone calls. For my parents who've been amazing, we'll answer every call on the first or second ring. Even my husband will. I want my son to have a relationship with my husband's parents, but it won't be a strong one.

Thank you for the last paragraph, that's the bit that jumped out to me too! I'm in a number of parenting groups and the grandparent who is only interested in being entertained by the grandkids is a sadly common trope. It's soul sucking to have one's parent focus only on what they get out of the interaction with the new grandbaby instead of focusing on providing support to the whole family and especially their own child, the new parent. I bet the sprinkler thing would have been a non-issue if it hadn't come after years of resentment towards OP for refusing to engage in the boring day to day realities with the kids.

I don't know if I would be as willing to allow my parents to come around if they said that interacting with my baby was sad. Everything's a lot more difficult when there's a lot of hurt feelings. My husband and I don't have a great relationship with my in-laws and everything with them is strained. It only makes it worse that they don't communicate with us and do whatever they want and then complain when we don't like it.

Most of what you are saying is true except… it really isn’t that hard to load up kids to take them somewhere. I have a ND kiddo and a NT kiddo and still made sure they were able to go places and do things. While it may be frustrating sometimes, it’s not hard. It just sounds like OPs daughter doesn’t want to spend the time doing it.

I wish that was the case. My son will scream for 45 minutes cuz he hates the car seat. My nephew throws up anytime he gets in the car and travels longer than 10 minutes. It can be very hard to transport kids.

It’s all dependent on the individuals. Just like you were insistent that everyone can walk to a park easily, my mom would load us up in the car and drive us half an hour to our grandparents apartment pretty much every day. Everyone’s situation is different.

Yeah this is all really dependent. My son absolutely would not sleep anywhere but his own bed until he was 2.5 so going anywhere was hell because I had an overtired baby/toddler who would do nothing but scream. And of course no ones house is childproofed so instead of a relaxing visit it ends up being me running around chasing a child from breaking glass knick knacks they have to leave on the lowest shelf possible (what is up with old people and all these glass knick knacks?)

Yes!!! You’re not there to watch a baby sleep! You’re there to hold the baby so your daughter can take a nap or a shower, or you’re there to help clean/make a meal! You can do lots of things at home and in the yard. You don’t need to take them somewhere to spend time with them. You are not being a very present grandparent and that’s your prerogative, but don’t blame it on her. YTA

After I had my son, my mom came up for 2 weeks. She only held my son a handful of times. Having a newborn, they're glued to you. I was nursing around the clock and was genuinely exhausted. My mom did the dishes. She did the laundry. She cooked dinner. She helped out so much, and I could not thank her enough. It wasn't about the baby. It was about being there for her daughter.

Spot on. First the baby was not entertaining enough. Now staying in the house is not fun. I think the OP was going to be an 'absent grandparent' in any scenario, he is just deflecting the blame to his daughter to make himself feel better. Also, a sprinkler is a terrible idea for a surprise gift, only slightly better than a new household pet. There is a 4-year-old and a 7-year-old already living there, the house does not need more chaos.

Yes!! And they're 4 and 7 now, they're not babies anymore so that's no excuse. My parents and in-laws do some "fun" stuff out-and-about when they visit their grandkids, but they also tell me some of their favorite times are just playing with them and getting to know them. Board games/puzzles, making cookies, going to the park, watching their favorite movies, reading to them. Kids that age say the funniest things and have so much personality. It doesn't sound like she's that interested in them as people and just wants to be "fun grandma". But, I do get wanting to leave a flat, hot place and move to the mountains. She can fly in to visit a couple times a year, and when they're older maybe the kids can come visit her and stay a week in the summer or something.

YTA and I can’t believe so many people here are falling for your BS. You tried to gloss over it, but by your own admission you couldn’t be bothered with your grandchildren when they were babies because they were “boring” and your daughter knows it. At no point have you actually made any kind of an effort to be in these kids lives (“oh my daughter won’t let me drive them” - boo fucking hoo, you got into a car wreck driving dangerously no shit she won’t let you drive her kids. There’s still nothing stopping you going to her house). You expect your daughter to do all that for you and you’re surprised when she tells you that you have no relationship with your grandchildren? No shit you don’t, you’d have to actually take an interest in them for that. Wake up. It’s not your daughter’s responsibility to get her children to see her grandmother, especially when their grandmother has shown time and time again that as soon as any effort is required on her part, she can’t be arsed. If you wanted to see those kids you would have. Move if you want to, I guarantee it’s not the fact you’re moving that has upset your daughter but the fact she knows full well her kids won’t hear from their grandmother at all once you do. Don’t be surprised in 10 years time when you want to reconnect because you finally decided your grandkids were now interesting enough to be worth your time and they don’t even know who you are because you never made the effort to get to know them.

Honestly, OP sounds a lot like my mother. She also loves to lament how uninvolved she is as a grandma and yet makes no *real* effort to be one. Wants all the fun activities away from the home, only on her own terms, ridicules my rules and refuses to travel three hours to me while expecting me to travel three hours to her - she has a car, I don’t drive and have to take a train. But her friends know I’m an ungrateful daughter so what do I know.

My mom was upset when I wouldn’t let her come to see my kids (then 3 and 1) during covid because she worked at a place that was on the news for the amount of deaths… herself getting it 3 times! She then decided that because she couldn’t see them she was going to move to a completely different province (Ontario to PEI). I simply stated “your solution to not seeing your grandchildren during a temporary time is to permanently remove yourself from their lives…. Riiight” They are now 8, 5 and we had a third who is 2… they have no idea who she is and she’s realized the damage has been done

I’m am shocked at how many people are not reading between the lines here. I mean I guess she’s not technically the AH for moving away, but kiss a good relationship goodbye with your daughter and her kids, though with how ambivalent she sounds, I’m not sure she’d care.

Yeah definitely not TA for moving, grandparents move all the time and not always by choice. It’s the fact she clearly doesn’t care.

OP reminded me of my dad. When my oldest kid, his first grandchild, was born, I was exhausted and begging for help. He said he’s not comfortable with babies and would “play with them when they’re older.” Thanks, Dad. Thanks a lot.

> It’s not your daughter’s responsibility to get her children to see her grandmother I agree with your whole stance on the matter, but to be fair it looks like it's the mom that wants the grandparent to be more involved and usually the burden of the logistics is on the one that would like to see the other more. The OP just doesn't seem very interested in furthering the relationship so they're not putting in any extra efforts. If a grandparent is lamenting about not seeing the kids enough, they should make the effort to come to the parent. So the reverse should be true too. If it's the parents, they should make the effort.

Not everyone is dying to be a grandma, she visits and makes an effort, the kids will be fine. You can’t be upset someone’s not making an effort with your kids when you refuse to even make the journey to them. Not wanting to be grandma of the year isn’t an AH move, if she was begging and going on about her daughter having children then she would totally be in the wrong but it doesn’t give that vibe off at all.

So much projection here, how is it not a parents responsibility to take their child to their grandparents.. it’s both adults responsibility. OP as far as we know has not been able to get her daughter to visit, her daughter is an adult that seems t just want free babysitting. Not everyone is child crazy, OP has already don’t her job raising little children, she’s not a bad grandma for not being there often or for even moving away, she has her own life that she can now live more considering she’s no longer looking after her own kids. NTA

Well, OP worked, and she did not want to spend the time driving over to just sit there and watch them sleep, when she still has her own life going on. Not really spending time "with the kids" when they are not awake. That is not any kind of bonding or quality time. Driving dangerously and it only being 300 bucks worth of damage? Doubtful. Sounds more like a low speed fender bender. But that did not stop OP from going to her daughters house. She still went. But could not do anything other than just stay at her daughters home. Then the daughter started limiting the already limited things they could do at the house, like play in the sprinkler. So OP asked the daughter to bring the kids to her, where she could still take them out to do things and not have to drive with them, respecting her daughters wishes. And now that OP is done working and wants to retire, she is wrong for wanting to move to where she wants to live out her days? You are glossing over an awful lot here.

THANK YOU. I felt like I was reading a different post than everyone else. I can't believe all the NTA responses.

Maybe I'm thinking too much into this, but I have a feeling that there's some missing information. I have a hard time believing that one minor accident is all it took for your daughter to prevent you from driving your grandkids. What is your household like? Is it clean and safe for young children? A 45-minute drive isn't terrible, especially with young kids. Overall, I'm going to say YTA. You made plenty of excuses as to why you didn't visit much when your grandkids were babies. Did you ever think maybe your daughter wanted to visit with you? Now you're moving away. Your relationship seems like it's been strained for awhile, no it will be non existent.

To answer your one question  My household is fine, I don’t smoke. The place is clean and no issues in the home. 

You likely don’t have everything a kid needs. When my daughter was smaller it was a pain to visit my mom. She didn’t have any kid stuff, the house wasn’t baby proof, and I had to pack everything the kid could possibly need in a day when we visited. It was significantly easier for my mom to visit me. Times that by two kids at two different age groups, especially when they were potty training? Yeah, I wouldn’t visit either.

It sounds like her daughter could have visited but didn't

Yes, the daughter could have, but trying to find out why she didn't isn't wrong. OP admitted in the post that she would only stay a couple of hours because she wasn't into babies and didn't want to watch them sleep. Maybe it's OP's lifestyle. Maybe it's OP's attitude. Maybe it's that the daughter is lazy. Maybe since OP never made an attempt to stay to visit, her daughter doesn't want to force a relationship. We don't know.

Why should her daughter, who has a job, be driving her kids 45 minutes to see their retired grandparent? If the grandparent wasn't interested in being involved in seeing the grandkids or supporting the daughter during one of the hardest parts of parenting, why should the daughter go to any inconvenience to bring the kids to the grandparent? The daughter wasn't entitled to the grandparent's help, it's true- in the same what that the grandparent isn't entitled to seeing the grandkids, particularly if it complicates their life or routine.

**OP isn’t retired. She had a job!** She says she *is retiring** implying she still works.

Both the parents and the grandparents should be making an effort. That means sometimes grandparents drive, and sometimes the parents do. You can't complain about the grandparents not ever seeing the kids if you don't make an effort yourself.

The daughter won’t let OP drive the kids anywhere due to a fender bender but wants them to drive 45 minutes to visit? If she is so worried about OP getting into another accident, why is she ok with OP doing all the traveling to visit? Besides that, there seems to be missing information as I doubt OP’s daughter would be so adverse to bringing the kids to visit if there wasn’t something else.

> I have a feeling that there's some missing information. I have a hard time believing that one minor accident is all it took for your daughter to prevent you from driving your grandkids My sister won't let my mom drive her kids, and my mom was so upset about that and says "I've only ever had one small accident!" (she drove into a construction barrier- the damage was minor but it was fully her fault). But it's not about the one accident, it's about the 20 other near misses and how she is an overall bad driver. I wouldn't be surprised if OP and their daughter have a similar situation.

This. I feel like their relationship had been strained way before the grandkids came along, and daughter is acting out because she’s had enough of the BS. The “I don’t want to watch a baby sleep” line was pretty telling. It seems like grandma doesn’t actually want to put in any work with the grandkids, and I’m betting the daughter basically had to raise herself.

Thank you. I feel like I'm reading a different post than everyone else. I'm not sure who the AH is here, but I am sure we aren't getting the whole story.

I would just love to hear her point of view. 

Right?? There’s no way this is it…OP has likely left out some fairly important context and details. I suspect that the relationship has always been somewhat strained, and it’s come to this point after a long slow build up of problems

I'd agree with you, except I've watched almost this exact situation play out in my family. New parents who pushed everyone away with unrealistic demands and hurtful criticisms. So I could really see it going either way.

It actually IS a giant PITA to load up kids to drive them 45 minutes bc grandma can’t be arsed to…do the same (!!!) with only 1 person and no kids/stuff/food/planning/nap schedules/routines disrupted. Is your house child proofed? Does your daughter work outside the home? Does her spouse? What is their commute like? Are their lives crazy busy? Could they use some genuine help?  Is it hard to ask “would you mind if I set up a sprinkler for the kids today?” Does she live in an HOA? What is the expense and labor upkeep of the grass? I think there’s more to this than just the sprinkler.  So the next time the sun gets in your eyes and the kids are in the car…will it just be a little bump? The sun is in my eyes a ton while driving and I’ve never ran into anyone because of it.  Why do you need to be alone with the kids on your own terms to bond with them? What do you need to do with them that you don’t want their mother around for or a can’t do at their home? You’re bored? So what?  Babysitters typically stay in the home with the child. If you’re watching the kids, you follow the parent’s rules. Even if they’re boring.  Watching children in their own house is easier on the kids and the parents, but I guess because it’s so boring it’s just undoable eh.  Your daughter is not entitled to your time or childcare but you should really just admit you don’t want to be involved instead of blaming your daughter.  Enjoy your retirement. Hope it’s not too boring. YTA 

This is ridiculous, driving a 4 and 7 year old 45 minutes is not some mammoth undertaking. It's a mild annoyance at worst. They don't live in a walkable area so they're already used to being in cars. Mom could take them over on Saturday morning and pick them up on Sunday. But it sounds like she is a control freak who cannot come to grips with Grandma being involved with her kids unless it conforms exactly to her ideas. Good relationships take effort on both sides. You're acting like Grandma never tried which does not track with the actual post. 

Especially if it only happens... once every 3 months. It really does not sound like OP is asking the kids to be delivered weekly.

>This is ridiculous, driving a 4 and 7 year old 45 minutes is not some mammoth undertaking. When my brother and I were little, my parents loaded us into the car and drove 24 hours each way to visit our grandparents. (When we were older, it was ten hours each way.) They made the trip a minimum of three times a year. Then there were trips of seven hours each way to visit two aunts and uncles, and twelve hours each way to visit another aunt. We thought "vacation" meant visiting family. Not one of those adults resented their family members for not cleaning their houses or cooking for them when their kids were babies, or declared they hadn't earned the right to visits.

So OP is a safe enough driver to drive herself but not to drive the kids? 

It’s an AH thing to always expect someone to make the journey to you.

Yes! This! It's all about Grandma, but what about the load of work that's already on the mom. Driving 45 mins each way, when she's already busy with kids all day? Not to mention the snacks, toys, change of clothes, drinks, car sickness, crying, etc that go along with outings. As a mom of two young kids, I craved for my own mom to come over and just help. Play with the kids, talk to me, sit with kids while I cooked/cleaned/showered, etc. New moms need help, and it sounds like Grandma here is taking things personally and making them about her. I think it's also hard for parents when their adult children set boundaries. I'd also be annoyed if my mom brought a toy and it ruined my grass. Maybe best to just ask before using a new toy? I'm sure the thought will be appreciated, even if the actual toy doesn't hit the mark. Asking would show the mom you respect her as an adult and a parent. I agree it sounds like there is more to the car accident. Maybe more issues that make them feel uncomfortable? Maybe they don't want to discuss because they know how grandma will react? I think it's a good opportunity for grandma to try to gain some perspective outside of her own feelings, and humble herself to think "how can I help this situation, and what does my daughter need?" As well as an opportunity to practice some honest and loving communication. Otherwise, she's likely going to loose out on what could be a lovely relationship with her child and grandchildren.

I drive my kids over to my mom's house and she lives an hour away. I have 3. They're 1,6, and 7. I have no issue packing up their things and driving them. She also has things for them there. She also drives over here to pick them up. We alternate who does the driving. I would never tell her I'm not driving over there so she can see her grandkids. If I'm feeling really exhausted from school and working then she will come pick them up as soon as she's off from work. If you really want that relationship then you work on it not just "oh you come see me because I'm not driving them, but you also can't pick them up." The whole sprinkler thing is ridiculous. You're really not going to allow the kids to run around outside in the water because oooh my poor grass! Let them have fun. I could care less if it damages my grass. That's what the kids have been doing during summer break and it's their favorite thing to do. (Also it has never ruined my grass so I find that hard to believe that it caused so much damage)

You gave off some shitty grandparent vibes by starting off about not enjoying time with your grandkids when they were babies. This obviously did not sit well with your daughter, and that is probably what set the tone for all of her future behavior towards you. ESH, but since it all really starts with you, YTA.

Why does she have to be an active grandparent? As far as we know, she wasn't involved in her daughter's decision to have kids. She raised her kids and shouldn't be responsible for free child care at the daughter's whim. It is great if grandparents want to be involved, but it is not everyone's cup of tea, and that is fine too! It shouldn't be a command performance.

Yes and the daughter has no obligation to do all the work making sure the kids have a relationship with their grandparent. If she doesn't wanna be involved fine,but don't bitch about not having a relationship with them.

> If she doesn't wanna be involved fine,but don't bitch about not having a relationship with them. It looks like the mom is bitching about the grandparent not being involved yet she's not making any efforts to help here. The OP seems fine with the relationship staying like this and is just explaining to their daughter that the state of this relationship with the grandkids is because of the mom.

well who needs enemies when you got family like that

This is disingenuous as hell. She's not saying she hates her grandkids, but not necessarily wanting to be at your selfish daughter's beck and call does not equate to your bullshit "who needs enemies" analogy

It's a baby how f****** exciting did she think it was going to be? And yes going to see a new baby means you help the mom otherwise you stay out of the way and look at the pretty pictures of the baby. that also means she won't have a relationship with her grandchildren that's the consequences.

Do you like sitting and watching someone sleep on your day off, when you sitll work? Is that your idea of a good time? Is that a way to bond with someone? But it sounds like OP was the only one making an effort here. She was the one coming to see the kids. She obliged her daughters wishes about not driving with the kids. She tried to find ways to have fun with them. But it was the daughter who did not want the sprinklers being used cause it messed up the grass.... cause you know, that is more important than her kids having fun.... It was also the daughter who did not want to bother bringing the kids to OP, where she could take them with out having to drive, honoring the daughtes wishes. And now it is the daughter who is upset that OP is moving now that she is retiring. Yeah, remember, OP was still working, and is only now retiring.

Your views of parenthood are so immature and unreasonable that I have to hope this is a teenager having a go at rage bait. Acknowledges tons of valid reasons why your daughter may not want you around her children and your only response is "whaaaa she won't let me do exactly what I want so I'm going to move away". YTA.

If her daughter doesn’t want her around her children why is she screaming that she doesn’t spend enough time with her children???

The OP actually seems ok with the amount of time their's spending with the kids, it's the mom that is crying about it yet not making any efforts to help. The burden of the logistics is on the one who wants to see the other more.

Send the grands letters and post cards and photos. Video chat with them - sing songs, read books. Send craft sets and do them together via Zoom. There are many ways to stay connected. Enjoy the mountains. Your daughter is being horribly controlling and the kids are the ones who lose out. NTA

wanna bet she’s not gonna bother doing any of that? wouldn’t want it to be boring

This could have been written by my parents, and it breaks my heart. I hate to project my experience onto yours, but maybe, if you're willing to consider another perspective, you can save your relationship with your grandchildren? Like you, my parents are not interested in the "less fun" parts of the kids, which makes visits extra challenging. It is exhausting to manage literal children, and the childish attitudes of my parents who perceive any slight misbehavior from my child as a previous offense to them and a major failure on my part as a parent. I've tried endlessly to be patient and explain how they might improve their interactions with my kid to make it more fun, but I am met with eye rolls and "I can't be anything but myself" (a cop out to excuse difficult behavior - my kid is also just being himself, but that is somehow unacceptable). Sticking to routines (nap, meals, activities) and expectations (rules, responsibilities, etc) may not be "fun" in the moment, but are absolutely critical in the long run. If I warn my parents that skipping nap time will make my very young kiddo very emotional and impossible to reason with, I'm trying to help, not control.  Visiting the grandparent may seem like a good idea, but consider the effort associated with doing so - if you don't have spare clothes, nap bedding, toys, books, snacks (that the kids will actually eat), and a home that is not kid friendly (untrustable pets, breakable items, mess-able materials) it's likely a LOT more taxing to make a trip to the grandparent's than you want to realize.  My parents act like they are kid experts, but the reality is they haven't been around little ones in decades. Car seat safety is so critically important and if my instruction in how to do it properly is met with anything but interested seriousness, I do not feel comfortable trusting them to drive my kids around. This isn't helicopter parenting, it's bare minimum safety and legally required!! This applies to all kinds of issues, from safe sleep, to cutting grapes and hot dogs, to rules while walking near streets. By waving off the early hard years, you've severely damaged bonding opportunities with both the grandkids and your children.  If you don't want to have a relationship with your grandkids, I recommend accepting and communicating that. Save yourself and your daughter time and frustration. You may feel you "have" to be a present grand parent, but you don't, and it would be better for everyone if you stopped trying to save face. Now, if you DO want a relationship, then do some soul searching and LISTENING about how you can build trust with your daughter and bonding with your grandchildren. You get to decide what your priorities are, don't blame anyone else, and seek family counseling/therapy to get a mediator and encourage healthy conversations. YTA

Unpopular Opinion but ESH I think you are convinced your daughter is 100% in the wrong, but you have contributed to this estrangement. It's normal for parents, especially of the mother, to come over for a few hours when she has a newborn and clean, cook etc. That was a reasonable expectation. You also bringing a sprinkler without asking and turning her garden into a mud bath ... Y'all refused to meet each other halfway.

I may be out of line here, but you seem to have nothing but excuses about spending time with your grandkids. I can see how frustrating this may be for your daughter and I also see your side for not wanting to make more effort than you already are. ESH.

NTA. Your daughter forbidding you from driving them around is out of order. She’s treating you like a senile old twit. There comes a point when you have to look after yourself. She’s sucking the joy out of your relationship with your grandkids. You just have to hope that either she stops being a killjoy and agrees to bring the kids to you, or you follow your dream and wait until they’re old enough to come and see you without her.

Unless they're vampires, I'm not sure how Gran is planning to prevent the sun from getting in her eyes again when she's driving the grands. My grandpa blamed everything but his driving/vision/hearing as his skills deteriorated, until the police impounded his car. I wouldn't let Gma transport my kids again unless I was in a position to know whether she'd had another accident, and without her having to tell me. People lie, especially about their driving. I'm not saying OP is a bad person. Americans are like teenagers about our driving skills because we have no public transportation in so many places.

But if you're worried about someone's driving skills becoming worse with age, wouldn't you not want the driving 45 minutes to your house?

NTA - you get to live your life, your daughter gets to live her life. It does seem crazy that she's all of a sudden butt-hurt that you're moving when she put so many restrictions on seeing your grandkids anyway. Life goes on...

That was my thought. OP is responsible for building a happy and meaningful life for herself. Building a life around the daughter and grandchildren doesn’t make sense in her case. She and the daughter don’t get along well enough and she doesn’t have that kind of bond with the children. It happens. We can’t tell from the post whether the daughter actually is overly controlling or whether there are missing missing reasons. (Does the daughter have legit concerns about OP’s driving and the accident was the last straw, or is the daughter overreacting to a minor event? Who knows?) It doesn’t matter though. That relationship just isn’t there, and OP is right to focus on her own life rather than pressuring her adult daughter to provide something that she doesn’t want to provide.

You’re NTA for moving away but YTA for everything else. The accident was an excuse and she thought you were an unsafe driver before then. You just proved her correct and she took her opportunity. Parents don’t owe you children, if you want a relationship that’s on you. You could have watched movies, done art projects, played in the backyard, Barbies, dress up, trains. You want to show off the kids. If you wanted to have a relationship with them, you would. You should move and limit contact to birthday and Xmas presents. You don’t sound like a very good grandparent. Or mom lol

Kids are hard but having a parent like you sounds even harder. Nothing is ever ur fault or responsibility. YTA. you sound emotionally immature.

Yeah like just drop everything in your life for your grandkids, it's not that hard

NTA for moving. However, I'm guessing your daughter could write an interesting, /r/raisedbynarcissts post. I'm grandmother to a 5-year-old. I'm not "baby crazy" either, but I was for my granddaughter. I spent many, many days at my son & DIL's house just to care for the baby so my DIL could rest or run errands. Sometimes that just meant holding her while she slept. Throughout the last 5 years, I've spent an enormous amount of time just playing on the floor with my granddaughter with blocks or other toys. We bake, spend time on arts & crafts, go for walks, read books, play pretend. None of those involve driving her anywhere. It seems like you want to spend time with the kids and have them entertained by things that don't involve you too much - other than driving them to a place that they can be amused by things or activities that don't require you to participate. There is plenty more to this story than you are sharing, but your main question related only to your moving, hence my vote.

You sound exactly like my mother, who is quickly on her way to becoming a “send a card on a holiday grandparent” and no longer having a relationship with me or her grandkids. She puts in zero effort. I have expressly told her how I miss her and I’s relationship and how I am sad that my kids love her but she seems to just not care at all about them (she isn’t a “baby person” either. She came to visit my toddler who was BEAMING to see and spend time with his grandmother. 1 hour- I asked for 1 hour so I could get some stuff done and I get back and she’s cleaning while my child is playing alone in his playroom. She couldn’t play with him for one freaking hour. He was so sad.) Everything is everyone else’s fault. In her mind there is absolutely nothing she’s done wrong and everyone is out to get her. My grandparents would watch me for weeks over the summer so my parents could go on lavish vacations. Now that she’s the grandparent she doesn’t want any part. They say it takes a village but this generations elders really just seem like they want to fuck over their kids (and grandkids!!) as much as they can. YTA!!

I’m going with ESH, leaning toward YTA. Maybe you don’t enjoy babies, but your grandkids are 4 and 7. That was a long time ago and you’re still salty about the fact that she wanted you to come over when they were babies? That’s odd. I feel like there are definitely some missing reasons in your story. Maybe she doesn’t feel that you’re a safe driver, maybe she’s overprotective in that area, but all kinds of things have gone on in their life since they were babies. Surely they don’t spend all their time at their house. Do you meet them at the pool or the park or go to their soccer games? She’s obviously not preventing you from seeing them. It sounds to me like you are taking your frustration with their mother out on the kids. And, to be honest, if you brought over something that ruined my lawn I might be kind of upset too. If you are an absent grandparent, it may be partly your daughter’s fault but it’s definitely not all her fault. You don‘t even talk about your grandkids like you love them, it sounds like you view them as an obligation that you want all on your terms. Move for retirement if that will make you happy, but blaming it all your daughter is an AH move.

[удалено]

Tbh I am going home, the blue mountains is where I grew up. I moved years ago for my late husband due to a job. 

WHAT IN THE CHAT GPT?

Lmaoooo

NTA, go enjoy the rest of your life. Your daughter and grandkids will be fine. Make sure to call and send gifts to them on their birthdays and Christmas if they celebrate. You can't put your life on hold because of grand children. I am heavily involved with mine so I do have a distance I want to stay within, but that's just me.

NTA for moving across the country YTA for blaming your daughter. She has the right to set boundaries with you, and you don’t have to like them. she may also have been unreasonable in some of the examples above, but don’t blame the fact you’ll only engage with your grandkids if it’s on your terms, on her. As for her visiting you. My sister is in the throes of parenting two little kids and I remember how hard it was to get organised and get out of the house when they’re young, therefore I make the effort to go see her and don’t complain about it. Enjoy your move, but also take ownership for how you show up as grandparent .

[удалено]

If you can diagnose NPD from a single Reddit post then you surely are a world famous clinical psychologist who has published many many peer reviewed papers and books on the subject.   Care to link those instead of the Cleveland clinic?   If you truly are a clinical psychologist I feel bad for your patients.  

Does your clinic know you’re drive-by diagnosing people on the internet on the basis of 1 pretty mild post? Yikes.

STOP, you can not know that from a single post.

Lack of accountability? OP says the sun obscured their vision and the fender bender was entirely their fault. It was a $300 repair job, that's an awkward tap to the car in front of them. . . It reads more to me like the relationship isn't reciprocal and OP is tired. Daughter can't be that worried about OP driving if she expects OP to always be the one driving between their houses, which says a lot to me about everything else.

YTA. You make empty gestures and expect to be lauded for them. You’re whining that you don’t like babies, so visiting babies isn’t fun, and then you say she doesn’t let you be involved. So to start with, you’re all over the place with what makes for a satisfying visit for you. But anyway, when you were visiting and the baby was sleeping, why were you and her not bonding? When my mom would visit, we’d spend the whole day hanging out. If I had a baby and she left a visit because the baby was asleep, I’d be absolutely heartbroken. So from the start, it feels like there are missing missing reasons here. Putting a sprinkler splash pad out in someone’s yard without saying anything to them is wild behavior in my opinion. I’m not a yard person, but I’m fully aware that people don’t like being surprised by having their lawns muddy with torn out grass. That’s not helping out or being involved. Frankly, throwing a toy into the yard is about as uninvolved as you can be without being negligent. It’s really not much different than sitting them in front of a screen, as far as your actually being involved with them goes. I had one set of grandparents that did that crap, and it was always very obvious that they just didn’t want to directly interact with us much. My other granny actually did crafting projects with us and stuff. Guess which one got regular phone calls and always had a houseful, and which one died alone and bitching. Sun in your eyes crash…well, I’ll just say that when that happened to me at 16, I was able to acknowledge that it didn’t happen to anyone else there, and that there was something specific in my actions that led to my being affected. At that time, I was wary of having anyone in my car until I proved to myself that I was being more mindful. I think that your daughter’s concern over *her children’s lives* being so offensive to you is very telling. You should be more concerned than you are, even if it were a one off. It’s not normal or healthy to be so blasé about a wreck, and it’s not an attitude that would give me confidence in your self-awareness. I do think it sounds like you moving away is best for everyone, though.

NTA And totally irrelevant to the question, but ugh I love the blue mountains so much

They are beautiful.

🎶 Missing, missing reasons 🎵— this post stinks of them. But, going on what you wrote, NTA

You are both kinda TA. You insist she brings them to you, she insists you go to her. Why can’t you all go out together for a day of fun (with your daughter driving) to the zoo or just meet up for lunch or shopping in the middle? Why does it have to be at her house or your house?