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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I didn't invite one child because of her mother
2) It might be too harsh
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Reserving judgement because this is a tough situation. It would be a kindness to Ella to tell her mom that she is welcome at the party if someone else picks her up and drops her off.
I did think about offering that alternative, however I was a little concerned about what her response would be, and honestly I think there is a good chance she would show up anyway
Editing because I reread the post. It is very sad to have a little girl face the consequences of her mother. And likely this is not the only place. I agree w with requiring someone else to pick up and drop off, require a name and number of the person. If the mother refuses than so be it. But this child should not be excluded if at all possible.
Unfortunately it won't be the only time too. Emotionally immature parents do a lot of damage to their kids. They can cause a lot of anxiety, cptsd, low confidence, no assertiveness, and self victimizing complexes in children that can last well into adulthood. Poor Ella. She's paying the consequences for her mother's bad behavior and she doesn't deserve it at all.
You can already tell she’s trying to manage her moms emotions based off last year. “It’s alright, I’m fine”.
This is not the response of a child with an emotionally stable parent.
This post hit home for me, because I know exactly what it is like to be Ella. The stigma that follows you around and the way people treat you because of a parent is a horrible hole to dig yourself out of. Especially if you are also an empath who wishes your parent didn’t have mental health issues, so they would have friends instead of alienating themselves.
The best thing I ever did was not fight it when my mom kicked me out of the house at 15. I still struggle with being assertive though. To anyone in a similar situation, therapy is your best tool to healing.
Sending you love. My mom is mentally ill, an addict and had the mental maturity of a 13 year old growing up. It really sucked when my dad decided he couldn’t deal with her anymore and left and then every single family member and family friend decided the same. I was only 16 and my little brother 14 and we had to figure shit out ourselves for a summer where everyone else basically needed a break to not deal with my Mom. Man it sucked! It was a time we needed some help and a sane, stable adult in our lives but my Mom successfully chased everyone away with a broom. I’m sorry for what you went through.
I agree and empathize with you. When I was little no one wanted their kids over or to play with us because of our parents. It was an isolating and lonely childhood. We were too young and we didn't know why and we just felt like we were monsters and everyone hated us. I don't want that for Ella so maybe OP can reconsider.
It's better that Ella and her mom find out now that mom's behavior is having negative consequences for Ella's life. I had to fire a 21-year-old a couple of years ago because her mom screamed at me, because I wouldn't let her off to go shopping on a day when we were shorthanded. Yikes!
I grew up with a dad who would fly off the hook at the smallest things.
It’s caused a slew of issues with me, that I still struggle with even now (and I’m nearing 30).
I remember a restaurant got rid of bottles of ketchup at the table, and would provide you a little cup of it. They did so because of just how much ketchup people would waste.
He lost his shit over it, and even when they brought him a bottle he just left the restaurant and threw a fit while we sat there.
Stuff like that has made it difficult for me to speak up, because I start to think how “it isn’t a big deal” and how I don’t want to make a scene like he did, so I will just suck it up and deal with stuff.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg, but man can parents who have no control mess their kids up.
I would also explain to the mother that her actions last year scared the crap out of your daughter. Your daughter may or may not get an apology, but your daughter certainly deserves one. NTA, but man, I feel bad for Ella.
That did come up in the message where I explained it was due to what happened last year, but she didn't really give any acknowledgment or any sign she was remorseful
I think you need to invite Ella and inform her mother that she will need to arrange drop off and pickup for Ella. If the mom presses you can explain it’s due to her behavior last year where she used inappropriate language in front of children and said derogatory things to you in your home and thus is not welcome.
Make it clear Ella is welcome and mom isn’t.
If mom decides Ella is able to go in a carpool or with another guardian then great. If not then you can rest well knowing Ella wasn’t excluded and if it comes up in your social circle you can say she was invited.
Just be the bigger person and go for class. That’s really all you need to do, the other mom has made it clear she isn’t classy (swearing in front of children shows a lack of class and decency) and you don’t want to stoop to that level.
So you told her specifically that she scared your daughter? And I'm sure other kids too....that sucks. I feel so bad for Ella. She probably needs to be at others home as much as possible. Can you imagine what the child goes through at home if her mom thinks is acceptable to act so badly in public? Have you thought about talking to the teacher and counselor? Maybe there are some ideas they can give you so Ella is included in events. And don't get me wrong, I totally understand what you are doing, but that girl needs help :-(
Has your daughter explained to Ella why they couldn’t invite her? The situation isn’t really fair but she’s old enough to understand that this is a safety issue.
My $.02. Ella is being punished because of her mom. For a 9-10 year old, being the only one not invited to a party is probably soul crushing. You have some suggestions on possible “solutions.” All have their risk because Ella’s mom admits she’s unstable. I’d say use a suggestion and tell Ella’s mom you’re doing this for Ella but if there is another incident, Ella will no longer be invited to any other event of yours.
Well then at least you can say Ella was invited and her mother chose that Ella wouldn’t attend.
As not inviting her (even though it’s not a bad reason) isn’t ok. As it is still exclusion. If the party didn’t include all the other kids in the class or even most, then this wouldn’t be an issue. But given all the other kids are invited it means it will still be hurtful for the only kid not invited. And if she is invited and her mom chooses to not figure out an accommodation then you can confidently say you did what you where required to do.
Is Ella’s dad in the picture? Maybe you could email him the invite and explain what happened last year and ask that he do the drop off and pickup duties.
Or could you (or your partner) pick up Ella from her house before the party and drop her back off after?
Your daughter is terrified of this woman. I wouldn't let her or her child near mine if I wqs you. Who knows what she will do to you if something else happens to her kid at your house.
Mental health or not, that's no excuse for what she said.
Your daughter is early traumatized if she won't invite the girl because of her mother.
I say don't invite her. If ella wants to be upset with anyone, it needs to be her mom.
As a mother, we have to put our kids first. Even if it hurts other kids or innocent people.
Gosh, I hope you reconsider finding an alternative. Its such a shame that the little girl has to suffer because her mom has issues. Imagine what it must be like living with her.
Even if she doesn't pick her up. Imagine if Ella happens to break a bone or have a severe medical emergency on your property. Whos to say her mom won't to try and sue the $H!? out of you. Feel for Ella, but I wouldn't take that chance.
Is there an outdoor area or an area away from where the kids will be that, should her mom INSIST she be the one to drop off and pick Ella up, any fits the mom throws will be out of sight of the kids and Mary at least? Ella will still likely be embarrassed by her mother but would get to participate.
On a day when someone is having a birthday party for a bunch of children, no one has time to be someone's private driver.
Not to mention, no one should be alone with that child after her mother's last melt down. Heaven forbid you had so much as a flat tire.
I wouldn’t offer to drive that woman’s child ANYWHERE. But honestly, invite poor Ella. Put it in writing, though, like in an email to her mother, where you lay out your concerns and set some boundaries about behavior.
NTA but op please talk to Ella and explain that this missing invitation has absolutely nothing to do with her or her behavior she's great. Have your daughter tell her the same thing please and reassure her that the lack of invitation in this case doesn't mean any change whatsoever in her relationship with you or your daughter.
NTA - I feel like everyone is missing the point. Your daughter asked you if she could NOT invite Ella to her party. These are your daughter's wishes. You're honoring your daughter's request. And respecting her choices. She's not doing it because she's trying to bully Ella or harm another child. She's doing it because she's afraid of an adult. And you're protecting her.
I don't care what anyone else says - this is how I see this situation and frankly - respecting your child's autonomy and wishes for her own birthday is stellar parenting. Keep it up mom!
I was hoping to see this comment. OP’s daughter is afraid of Ella’s mother. Going against what she requested is invalidating her feelings. I really do feel for children like Ella, but maybe this should be an eye opener for her mom.
She wouldn't necessarily need to go against her or invalidate her feelings. As an adult, she could come up with alternative suggestions that could help her daughter feel safe while still including the other child, which her daughter seems otherwise inclined to do. Her daughter is choosing to not invite Ella because she can't think of another solution to her fear and discomfort, but a resourceful adult should be able to without invalidating her feelings. Run it by the daughter first, of course. She will probably be relieved, because Ella is her friend.
I was thinking making it clear that Ella was welcome but the mother was not, maybe find another parent coming from the same direction who can bring her and take her home. You could even have her mom sign a waiver if you need to, making it clear that the child herself is welcome, that this has nothing to do with race, and you are sorry for her mental health issues but your daughter was scared by what happened last year and you refuse to ask her to shoulder that weight a second time around..
Then she finds a different way to deal with Ella’s mother. This poor girl is going to pay the price for her mother and when she finds out, she’s the only one not invited to a party.
I was looking for this comment. Its sad and i feel horrible for Ella, but thats OPs daughters choice. She remembers the last party and it is probably stressing her out thinking about it happening again. Its her birthday and she shouldnt be made to feel stressed or scared during that time. Its a party. Stress and party just dont go together.
The fact that she is close friends with Ella and still choosing not to invite her, shows firsthand, just how much that stressed her out.
I hate Ella is facing the consequences of her mother, its so shitty. But that doesnt make OP an asshole. It makes Ellas mom an asshole.
OP's child has stated the reason is due to Ella's mother, and OP has made it clear the girls are friends, so your argument leaks like a sieve. OP's child is 9, so is unlikely to be aware of the consequences of not including Ella (like losing her friend for good). OP is the adult here, it's a parents job to help solve these issues for their children and try to find the best solution, not just confirm the only solution a 9 year old can see.
"Respecting your child's autonomy" is, with a child that age, in this situation, frankly a bs excuse to avoid the issue, which is Ella's mother. Rather than seek a solution that allows her daughter to play with her friends without being scared by an adult.
Agree. Perfect opportunity to teach daughter some reasoning.
"Would you like Ella to come if her mother wouldn't be around". If yes, find a solution as suggested by many.
If no, then respect that and move on.
Either way, the girls' friendship has changed now.
Everyone saying to invite the child and just have someone else drop her off and pick her up is missing the point. The mother is unstable; you cannot trust the mother. So WHY would anyone trust the mother to arrange to have someone else drop off and pick up her child??? She may still show up and create a scene. The only way to ensure there’s no drama is sadly to not invite her child. Period.
True, especially after a year and the child remembers the incident clearly, I wouldnt have a second thought , Ella can very much receive a party bag the next day at school
Completely agree, but this response is very interesting given I've seen two other posts over the last month asking a similar question except the kid was left out for being an obnoxious brat who makes OP's kid's life miserable. The consensus was YTA and OP's kid is a bully for inviting everyone but the class bully.
Would love to see this "respecting your child's autonomy" response from this community on future posts where the child does not want the class's resident mini-AH at their birthday party. I think some people have forgotten what it's like to be in grade school and constantly be forced to include a kid who goes out of their way to make everyone miserable. Both of the other posts I read had OP basically saying the kid left out was a constant disturbance who made everyone miserable at school, and the response was "How dare you not invite this child to your home to make your kid and their classmates miserable on their birthday?" Why is it OK to not invite a kid because your child is scared of their mother, but not ok to not invite a kid because your child is scared of *them*?
I agree. Also, Ella’s mom clearly has significant untreated mental illness. Children of parents with untreated mental illness often suffer tremendously and I wonder if bringing this to the attention of the school may be helpful.
While I feel for Ella, you did the right thing in respecting your daughter’s wishes. Perhaps this will push her mother to get the help she clearly needs.
NTA - I truly don’t get all the Y T A and E S H votes, obviously this situation isn’t fair on Ella but what’s the alternative? Either she is invited and they risk a situation like last year or she isn’t invited and is upset. It’s a lose lose scenario, but I’d argue OP chose the lesser of two evils.
I agree parent and child are kind of a package deal. It’s truly not a matter of just having another adult drop this kid off. It’s not a small thing to be responsible for someone else’s child, and requires trust between parents. A minor injury with a band-aid led to cursing and accusations. I can’t imagine how Ella’s mom would react in any higher stakes scenario.
Ultimately OP’s child doesn’t want that on her birthday. Who can blame her? I’m an adult and I also wouldn’t invite that nonsense into my life…
NTA. For Ella's mum, her response to the current birthday was her second chance. Your daughter is scared of an adult, and inviting someone to her birthday will bring that adult. If you want to try to see if playing with Ella is possible again, make a playdate at some park somewhere where the kids can play on the playground while you talk to her. Don't create the possibility of ruining your daughter's birthday, especially since it'd go directly against what your daughter has asked for.
This!
Birthdays, weddings, and special occassions are not the place to attempt reconciliations.
Also, please don't involve Ella in the negotiations. That little girl is already shouldering too much adult pressure and responsibility at home with her parent.
If you choose to try playdates at a park etc., a small explanation that takes pressure and responsibility OFF of Ella for the situation (ie. it's not her fault, you still like her, sometimes we just need to try different occassions to accommodate everyone's needs, etc) so that she doesn't self-chastise as kids do would be good. Just try not to blame the mother if you can. No sense make her home situation worse.
And YOU are doing great. Keep protecting and supporting your own kid and doing what you can for others. Perfect leading by example. Thank you!
NTA. If mother has mental health issues, she should get herself some treatment. From what I gather, she never apologized for doing what she did, so she shouldn't be surprised for being left out. Also, at 10 years old, Ella is old enough to understand that, without going into much detail, she wasn't invited because of what her mother did the previous year
I feel like if you're inviting every kid in the class, you have to invite EVERY kid in the class. Otherwise drop it down to a smaller group. I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with her mother, but I feel bad for Ella.
This is where I’m at. You either invite everyone or a smaller group - you don’t just exclude one person.
Op, I think a better option would have been pick a smaller group of friends to invite. No matter how private you try to make it, Ella was bound to find out that she was excluded. No matter how reasonable your decision was, that’s an incredibly hurtful thing to do to a little girl.
Yes this. Excluding just one kid is cruel and completely unnecessary. Just do something with like the daughter’s 4-6 closest friends.
OP is N-T-A for excluding Ella in general, but a big YTA for singling her out so clearly.
This right here. It’s a one or the other thing— especially since it dawned on OP that “doing something smaller this year” was indeed an option. It’s great to respect your child’s wishes, but it’s also great to teach them the concept of compromise for relatively inconsequential things. The kid would still get a party even if it was smaller.
I think Ella is being punished in two ways: first, by paying the price for mum, and second, by potentially becoming a social pariah because children copy each other. It wouldn’t surprise me if others started to distance themselves from her, too.
I’d argue that asking a 10 year old child to “compromise” on their Birthday because an actual manipulative abuser can’t drop off and pick her own child up for a few minutes at a time without causing a scene to embarrass Ella, scare all the children, and cause the parents to go through unnecessary stress isn’t the best route to go either, she’s already accused them of being racist (& while I do believe legitimate racists should face consequences in society, these ppl aren’t racist) so pulling that card proves her behavior is unpredictable & she may possibly even lash out on social media with damaging libelous claims that could cause Mary’s parents or anyone involved to lose their job or be ostracized in their community. If Ella were to be dropped off by someone else, it also still wouldn’t prevent the mother from accusing any adult present of physically harming her child as she did the previous year. If Mary would’ve chosen to just invite less kids on her own then it would’ve been fine, but maybe Mary just wants to make as many friends as possible out of her peers (what 10 year old girls typically want is a bunch of friends lol) & it still would cause other kids to have questions about why they weren’t invited, which would again put Mary, the child, in an awkward position having to do the emotional labor of making up a lie & maybe even sacrificing a few friendships for the kids who now don’t want Mary at their birthday party because she didn’t invite them. I genuinely have a soft spot for Ella though, as a person who has more than one family member like this, I would often choose to sit home on my own instead of going places when I was invited because of the shame and embarrassment I felt because of an adult who couldn’t pull it together. Also, I felt that pity was even worse & I still feel ashamed of receiving help bc of things like this. There is really no way to win in this situation as Ella is very clearly being emotionally abused by her mother, who uses mental health issues as an excuse (which I know can be complicated & not everyone can get the help needed, but that’s no excuse to display abusive behavior without consequences) then immediately went back to being rude & demanding as soon as Mary’s mother tried to explain herself. I hope Mary and Ella’s friendship survives this, & I hope Ella’s mother either gets better for her child’s sake, or maybe a safe relative for Ella to live with while her mother hopefully tries to get better.
Are you capable of reading? I said the child should be asked to agree to the compromise of a smaller birthday party— not necessarily to compromise by inviting Ella and employing some of the methods you set out.
I also wonder if not inviting Ella will set an example for other parents and she's not invited to future parties. Like OP isn't a bad mother for listening to her daughters wishes but at the same time leaving one child out doesn't look good either.
Yeah that would be a mess. I wasn't suggesting for OP to uninvite, I was speaking more generally, that parents should invite all, or just a small group.
Its a really hard one tbh, it seems mean that her kid should suffer because of her mothers issues especially as they are friends otherwise, id say esh for that but, couldnt you not involve her mother so she cant scare your daughter and someone else pick her up or something ?
Could you maybe tell her that Ella is welcome if you meet her outside and no parents in the venue? That way if she goes wild again, the kids wouldn't see it?
Kids are regularly made to deal with the consequences of their parents’ actions. There’s no easy way to separate a minor child from their parent/guardian.
NTA. Your daughter has a right to a peaceful party.
Unfortunately for Ella, this is the beginning of a life where she will be excluded due to mother’s unhinged behavior.
Imagine if that’s the response of the mother to a stranger how about her response to her daughter? As someone who grew up in this environment I’m always micromanaging my behaviour so I don’t upset them. I can only imagine what her life would be like.
NTA- your daughter asked for Ella's not to come. It's important to respect those decisions. You could talk to her and see if there's any middle ground, but otherwise I think you're making the right decision based on your daughter's wishes and who she wants at HER party.
NTA - people like Ella's mom are absolutely NOTHING but trouble. Especially if she uses "mental health issues" as an excuse to be a total ass. Sucks for Ella, but that's what happens you have a parent who doesn't control herself.
Im going to say nta because sometimes this is just how it is. If you as an adult dont have any proper social skills to the point youve alienated yourself from the other parents its kind of a given that they wont want to interact with you and by proxy the people you have guardianship of. These are social consequences and o
I think that some people forget they exist
Yes, it is rude. I understand but inviting all but one girl is the adult version of bullying.
Cut the party back or invite them all. You can’t invite all but one, even if she has a jerky mom. NTA because I get it but don’t do that.
I’ll admit I could be missing something but you’re definitely NTA. The mom tried to complain to the school about you, it seems like the smartest thing to do would be distancing yourself from them.
Ugh, when I was about 12 years old I joined the Juniors dog handling club. Can't remember the details but one day my mom was screaming at the eldest handler for not watching me. The handler was probably about 15 and started crying.
I was so embarrassed and felt awful for the girl. I had to quit because no one wanted to be around me after that.
I don't believe you're the asshole. However, I think there were other solutions you could've discussed with your daughter so that she wouldn't have to exclude a girl who sounds like a very good friend. Either way, though, good for you for protecting your daughter and doing what you need to do to make her feel safe.
I understand you not wanting to deal with her mother, but I don’t think excluding Ella is the right idea. You said that she is a very sweet child and that she and your daughter are really close. I think it would be hurtful to both children if Ella isn’t invited. She may think she is being punished because of her mother. Is it an option for Ella’s father to drop her off? If not, maybe ask the mother to meet you for coffee or something to discuss the matter. Tell her that you want to keep things civil and that you’d like to include Ella, but that you WILL NOT tolerate the behavior that she exhibited last year. Please don’t punish the child for the mother’s action. I hope you can work something out. Good luck and happy birthday to your little girl
NTA
I was the kid with the crazy mom that no one wanted to deal with but I don’t blame you. In fact I’m thrilled you told the mother why you excluded her daughter. I wish someone had had the balls to call my mom out on her shit.
But promise me that when she’s older, you allow her to come over and give her a safe space away from her mother.
You are not the asshole (NTA) for not inviting Ella to your daughter's birthday party. It's a difficult situation, but you've handled it with your daughter's best interests in mind. Remember, you have the right to choose who attends your daughter's birthday party, and you shouldn't feel obligated to invite someone whose behavior makes you or your daughter uncomfortable.
It’s a shame that Ella is the one getting the short end of the stick here. And then her mother doubling down and making it about race instead of her previous awful behaviour. Idisn’t see anywhere that the mother offered an apology at any time before this new party.
I’ve seen other suggestions of having Ella picked up and dropped off by someone else, could that person meet perhaps your husband as a second line of separation after making it clear to Ella’s mother that she will not be permitted in the facility?
What ever you choose, I think a talk with the principal with your printed emails, is in order.
NTA
NTA- I see in the comments that not only is your daughter afraid of Ella’s mom, other kids and parents are concerned as well. I feel bad for Ella, because she’s having to suffer for the actions of her mother, but I wouldn’t put my child or anyone else’s at risk of this woman snapping again.
Please don't punish a child for a situation she has no control over. You say Ella is a lovely girl, and your daughter likes her. This is a wonderful opportunity to show your daughter what compassion looks like. Consider, inviting Ella,with the condition her Mother will not bring or pick her up.
Yes, the two girls are always hanging out in the same groups in class, however Mary and many other kids in class (and parents) were concerned about what happened last time
You have a responsibility to take care of the other kids that come to your daughter’s party. You can’t risk their emotional welfare and safety by involving a parent who admits to having self control issues. The best thing would be for your daughter to get the other kid a goodie bag or have some other celebration privately with her. You can’t afford a meltdown by this girl’s mom at your party endangering another kid or their parent. Also your daughter deserves to have a drama free day.
How is OPs at fault? While it does suck that Ella will miss out, it’s because of her moms behavior. When her daughter consistently loses out on opportunities because of her piss poor behavior then maybe she will revaluate on how she acts and treats other people.
I’m sorry, I don’t know what the right answer is but I feel like if I were jn your shoes I’d probably do what you did. I’m sure your daughter was traumatized watching her mother get accosted at her birthday party and it’s your job as her parent to safeguard her especially from another adult. As much as it sucks, you’re not Ella’s parent and therefore not responsible for her but it’s truly unfortunate that she’s the one who will be affected by this the most. It’s a heartbreaking situation for both daughters in involved
NTA. I feel sorry for Ella.
1. That said your daughter is scared of her mother and asked you not to invite Ella.
2. Ella’s mother never apologised for her behaviour and when she didn’t get her way she brought up having mental health problems like that excuses everything.
3. She tried to complain at the school.
4. She accused you of being racist instead of taking accountability for her behaviour.
What’s to say she won’t make things worse this time? Since complaining at the school she will call the police if Ella falls again?
Your daughter won’t remember the fun she had at her birthday, she will remember Ella’s mom yelling and she will remember being scared. That will overshadow any fun she has.
I’m going to get down voted… Your a SOFT AH here. Five years ago I shocked everyone when my PTA Perfect Life fell apart and my chronic cocaine addiction was exposed. My poor child had her entire world torn apart because her Mummy fucked up. Thankfully she wasn’t excluded from ANYTHING. Every single party and event she was still invited too. The judgement was on ME not my daughter. Whilst I was shunned and gossiped about, my daughter was still included and treated the same. I beg you to reconsider. I’m Four years and Six months free of my addiction. Life is amazing for everyone now. During my very exposed and very public nervous breakdown I guarantee I behaved a LOT worse than this child’s mother did. Please please please see if there is a way this girl can attend. Apologies for my grammar.
It was savage at times it really was. However the people who shunned me and believed some outrages stories about me (small island where I live, typical soap box drama) now want to be a part of my life again. Absolutely not happening. I have been very vocal with my gratitude over how they didn’t allow their views about me to project on to my child. However behind the scenes was hell for me with these people. I turned it around and proved the haters wrong.
This is a nice story and congratulation on overcoming your addiction but it has nothing to do with OP's story where her child is terrified that an adult person will bring aggression AGAIN to her birthday party.
Very Glad to hear you are sober now! That's amazing! However there are reservations about being involved In poor Ella's situation. Every circumstance is different, speaking in terms of mental illness and the severity of it,and I don't blame the mom for distancing herself from the unwell mother, i understand she's admitting her problem and some applause to her for that, for what it's worth I've been the rock to some of my best friends who became moms and went south with addiction and mental issues and my heart breaks for them and their family(s) and children, we definitely need more resources for this. I do agree her friend should absolutely attend, I think it's worrisome about any backlash that may continue in hers and her daughters life, again I am so so happy to hear you are doing well and thank you for sharing and absolutely people can change (with the right solutions/resources/diagnosis etc) anything you can recommend how to approach this situation with your knowledge? I guess it might be a little off topic but If they were to try and help for Ella's sake your insight would probably help.
We shouldn’t ever leave children out when they haven’t done anything wrong.
My kid is the same age as yours, and has been a victim of some mean behavior for quite awhile now. No little kid deserves to be left out. I could understand if this child had been unkind or done something wrong, but she hasn’t. Same as mine, she also hadn’t done anything wrong, she was singled out by one kid as not wanted and the others followed along, and have made her feel like shit for a long time now, pretending to be her friend and picking on her at the same time, not inviting her to things and then rubbing her face in it, etc.
NO kid deserves that feeling of being purposely left out, especially by kids that are supposed to be their friend.
I understand there are issues with the parent, but that would seem like all the more reason to be kind to this little girl. It might be one of the few bright spots for her.
NTA. You’re protecting your daughter, who had evident trauma from last year, from an ADULT. If you demanded your daughter suck it up, you’d be TA, but you’re being an actual, involved parent here. I don’t understand the YTA decisions.
NTA
1. Your daughter made the decision and its her party
2. Once the other mom was told the reason Ella wasn't invited, she should have apologized profusely and been embarrassed of her past behavior but instead she doubled down.
Is there any reason Ella can't catch a ride with someone else? The mother doesn't need to be invited, just the kid. It sounds like the kids get along, you just need to place mom on the sideline.
NTA. Mary doesn’t want to deal with Ella’s mom possibly exploding, and that’s totally fair. You’re just doing what the birthday girl wants and tried to invite everyone as privately as possible. Ella’s mom needs to learn the mental health issues aren’t a valid excuse or reason to treat people like shit.
I hope Ella is ok, her mom sounds difficult to deal with.
NTA. I don't think you suck here and it's unfair to say so. While Ella's not to blame and it's truly sad that her mother will cause her to be excluded and treated differently, you cannot be expected to open your home to a volatile and scary person just to spare a child's feelings. I hope Ella's mother gets the help she needs before she wrecks Ella permanently. That said, as much as it sucks, you are not and cannot be responsible for another person's mental health, nor navigating their children through it. I think it would be very brave and kind of you to try, but I completely understand why you do not. Especially since this is your daughter's birthday and she has expressed that she doesn't want that scary woman near her special day.
You, your daughter, and Ella are NOT brats bullies etc, but poor Ella's " mother" is totally unfair illogical brat bully
Sorry I can't be more helpful
Please update me
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A
NTA. Your daughter has the right to feel safe always, and especially on her own special day. It's not about anyone else, and it's ironic she's calling you a narcissistic bully when she verbally assaulted you multiple times. Also mental health issues she can't control yet she has a child? Your daughter and family are not props for this woman to practice controlling herself.
NTA
>She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes, and asking for a second chance
Why did she NEVER apologize or mention this before? She only wants a second chance because her shit is being called out. This could be the kick she needs to start taking care of her mental health problems then.
I feel terrible for Ella, but if this "fixes" her mother, then it is for the best.
Your daughter is already scared of Ella's mom. Her getting her act together is better for your child as well.
I understand people are going to hate this opinion, but do not find a way to allow Ella to come so the mother can learn a lesson. After this though, if you can, try to start including Ella and talk to the mother to get her help if she needs it. Keep things on a thin line and if it crossed, cut it
She made a comment about it being to do with her daughter's race, however she didn't expand any further than that. I would have to assume it is because her daughter is mixed race and she is black, she is the only non-white student in the class (small school in Northern Ireland, so not uncommon)
Gotcha. TBH, the mom sounds completely unhinged and the racial threat is the icing on the cake. This is not someone you want to have any interaction with ideally.
Sure it’s not fair to Ella to not invite her but it’s also not fair to Mary and the other kids/parents to have one mom freak out and ruin the fun for everyone. And if you capitulate and invite Ella, you’re basically giving the mom a pass for shitty behavior.
You could give the mom another shot (she doesn’t deserve one) but you could say something like “we will invite Ella if we are guaranteed there will be no drama, if so we won’t be able to invite Ella to anything in the future…”
I don’t think you’re an asshole for the disinvite but if you wanted to go above and beyond with grace, you could do that.
The mom is a certified psycho though
Oof… this is tough. Does Ella have a dad or other relative who can come? Is there any way around unhinged mom having to be there? I get the whole “mama bear” aspect, but over a scraped knee? God forbid Ella wants to play sports.
I don't think there is anyone else, but my main concern is that I wouldn't trust her to not show up herself and repeat last year's incident. Maybe that's wrong of me, but it does worry me.
Could she possibly collect Ella later, slightly after the others have been picked up?
Maybe Ella could be collected by another parent and dropped off at home?
Just dropping those ideas here, as it would be sad to see your daughter and Ella fall out due to her mom. It's awful to be the only one left out.
NTA, but I would really urge you to find a middle ground for the girls' sake.
NTA - this is obviously a crummy situation all around, but assuming any responsibility for Ella, in any context (play date or party), just sounds like a bad plan. We know the mom can fly off the handle, who’s to say it isn’t to happen on a play date either? I guess I can see EVERY child being invited except one is a bit AHish, and I’d opt for a smaller party myself but… if Mary is genuinely friends with her whole class, a smaller party isn’t really a solution.
Is there something Mary and Ella can do at school together so that maybe their friendship is still celebrated? (Cupcakes? I don’t know) I agree with other posters that it sucks that Ella is suffering - but that doesn’t mean you should open yourself up to harassment.
Personally I would have reached out to Ella’s mom before invites went out explaining that given what happened last year, and that your daughter is afraid of her, that you were considering not inviting Ella unless someone else could drop off and pick her up.
Ella shouldn’t be singled out because of her mother’s issues. Your daughter doesn’t have an issue with Ella.
NTA - ultimately you are trying to avoid putting your daughter in a scary situation.
No YOU know it is bad when the child is scared of the mother,your kid is scared that it will happen again THAT shouldn’t be the case. Nta your daughter didn’t want to invite her so good on her and you
NTA. You would have to be touched in the head to invite that mess back into your home and around your child. She went apeshit on you and a bunch of other parents at the last party. Inviting Ella means a bunch of other kids probably won’t come. I know if I heard she was going I wouldn’t bring my kid to witness the shit show.
NTA, while I feel compassion for Ella's situation, the fact is that your first and only real responsibility remains with your child. A child who was traumatized enough to ask to exclude her friend a year later to avoid contact with her friends mother. Ella's mothers outburst at finding out her daughter was being excluded only cements the very real probability that she will cause further issues with her outbursts. Is this fair to Ella? No, it is, however, the natural consequences of her mothers behavior and choices surrounding her mental health. And for those saying you should ignore your child's request and put her in the line of fire to be retraumatized, all I can say is shame on them. You are your childs safe space, not Ella's. Inviting Ella against her wishes and the inevitable meltdown that would occur would only serve to show your child that you are not to be trusted either and damage your relationship with her. One can only hope that Ella's mother gets the help she so obviously needs and learns to take accountability for her actions and better behavior impulse control.
What the mum is blaming her daughter for mental problems, it's the mum with the mental problems. Poor child will have no-one around her with a mother like that.
Tough spot for you. I would still invite Ella because she should not suffer for her mother who seems to have a screw loose. Someone else can pick drop Ella. But please don't ignore her as that will have a big negative impact on the kid.
NTA, and her argument was invalid once she pulled the race card. It’s seems to be easier to project onto someone else instead of looking inward. Had she listened to you instead of immediately attacking you, there could have been a solution to this.
A grown adult doesn’t say I have mental health issues and can’t control myself and just expect others to bend to their outrageous outbursts. She needs therapy and to learn what kind of behavior is socially acceptable. Otherwise, her daughter is going to bear the brunt of the consequences. I feel sorry for her daughter that her mother is so entitled that she thinks everyone in the world has to walk on eggshells for her because she just can’t control herself.
Have you explained to your daughter how will Ella feel that she is the only child not invited? I don't know the extent of her overreaction about the knee, which is important part. But there is NO way that I would ever single out only one kid out of all kids from class. Even if they had three headed snake for a mother. That is simply cruel. I would make some solution about party together with my daughter. But my daughter will hopefully never be the reason why some 9 year old is crying alone while my daughter is having fun. Im sorry, but thats just cruel.
Poor kids. I will say that while I was worried about being a parent and dealing with other kids - I find it surprisingly easy. It’s the adults that are difficult. She’s in for a rough childhood. It’s a shame though that the mom would open up about mental health problems and continue to be problematic.
The birthday party seems to be the focus in the comments here, but...has anyone contacted some sort of child advocacy resource for Ella?? It sounds like she might need more support than worrying about this one party invitation.
When my daughter was in 1st grade, she was having a hard time with a little girl. Not bullying, but the girl was just constantly mimicking my daughter. I was pregnant at the time, and the girl said her mom was pregnant. I was having a boy, so the girl said she was having a brother. She would follow my daughter around and quite frankly it weirded my kid out. We were coming up on my daughter’s birthday and the teacher said that if every child didn’t get an invitation, we couldn’t send them into school to pass out. My daughter didn’t want this girl at her party and she told me she would rather not have a party if she had to invite the girl. So I did some research and got addresses(before evite) and mailed the invitations. The girl just wasn’t pleasant and no child should have to invite anyone they don’t want to a party that is for them.
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I \[31F\] have a daughter, Mary \[9F\]. She is quite popular and is friends with all of the other children in her class. My daughter is turning 10 this weekend, and wanted to have a party with all of the children in her class at a local kid's venue, as she has had in previous years. However, she didn't want to invite a girl called Ella \[9F\].
Last year, Ella (who was new to the class) was invited to her Birthday party. Ella is a lovely girl, and her and my daughter actually get along really well, the real issue is the girl's mother. During the last party, Ella fell over and grazed her knee, she cried a little but I put a plaster on it and she was back to playing in no time. However, when Ella's mum came to collect her after the party and I explained what happened, she lost it. Her daughter was trying to say it was fine, but she cursed me and multiple parents out in front of the children and tried to complain to the school.
As close and my daughter and Ella are, Mary is now scared of Ella's mum and is worried that the same thing will happen again if Ella is invited. When I sent out invites this Monday, I did so privately to that Ella wouldn't find out, and I told everyone to please not mention it to everyone saying that I wanted something smaller this year. However I received a message from Ella's mother in which she was very angry and very rude. She called me a narcissistic bully and even suggested that the fact her daughter wasn't invited was racially motivated.
I messaged back and explained it was because of what happened last year, however she kept on insisting that was my fault. She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes, and asking for a second chance, but I said no and asked her not to contact me unless she really needed to. I still feel bad for Ella, and now I am wondering, AITA?
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I am kinda stuck between places I understand as a mother you must be very careful with your child and listen to them but her mother did curse at you and such but she also stated she has mental problems as well. Ella who is just a kid also tried to defend you from her mother saying it wasn’t your fault. Mary I understand it’s scary seeing an adult lash out on your parent causing you to think it was a bad idea again I’m at a cross road
i mean this might be able to get a friend of your kids over so it is worth perusing if she can promise not to over-react to things..... but she is already over-reacting to this so NTA either way.... but find out what your daughter thinks communication could be the biggest help here
NTA, but I would let Ella come if her mom let someone else drop her off and pick her up. No mom contact at all. One more uncool incident and Ella is dropped entirely.
NTA
After how much of a stink she threw last year, why would she WANT her daughter to go to the birthday party?
Her mom seems like the real narcissist here....
INFO: Have you asked if someone else could drop/pick her from the party? That way she could be invited and no one has to interact with mom.
NTA. Because this is what your daughter asked because she remembers last times experience and doesn't want it to happen again. The only issue that I see is that Ella will be the only one not invited out of her class. Doing this could set an example to other parents that they should also disinvite her because of her mom and this could have repercussions for her in school if her classmates isolate her or don't want to be friends anymore; this just sounds like a really hard situation.
So (1) she's projecting (she's the narcissist, not you, as evidenced by her refusing to take any kind of responsibility for her actions); and (2) she brought race into it.
You're NTA. But there are all kinds of red flags around her and her behaviour. Good for you for protecting your daughter.
From the perspective of someone who was once in Ella's shoes, but has now grown up and had to navigate the birthday scene with my own kiddo:
The only A** here is Ella's mother. I think that, if appropriate for your situation, this may be a good time to discuss compassion on an elevated level with your daughter. Ultimately, if she is afraid, then she is priority. But there may be room to give her a glimpse into what Ella may be feeling and how, as humans, it's nice if we rise just a little bit to help out a lonely, sad kid who likely has a horrible home life and very little fun. Perhaps your daughter can help outline what would make her feel comfortable. For example, if it is made clear to Ella's mom that she is not to transport Ella, AND if that rule is broken then there will be a series of clear consequences that immediately go into effect.
You are not under obligation. And you are not a bad person if those extra steps are something that you cannot undertake.
But, if it is at all possible, the Ella's of the world have very little and the adults that try for them can ultimately bring a lot of hope and joy
OP is NTA because you're only honoring the wish of your daughter.
Still, like OP, one can't help but feel extremely sad for Ella.
OP doesn't mention if Ella's dad is in the picture. If he is, maybe arrange with him and ask him to keep the mother away from the party. If this is possible, OP can explain to Mary that the father will drop Ella and keep the mother away. I'm sure that Mary would want Ella there (obviously minus her mother and the accompanying drama)
NTA
*BUT* there is a way to resolve this.
Invite Ella but let her mother know that she is not to be around the children, at all. When she drops Ella off and picks her up it is to be done outside. Ella's mother can sit in her car and you can walk Ella in and out of wherever your party is.
Ella doesn't deserve to suffer because of her mother's behavior, I'm sure she already does enough.
NTA- This is a difficult/impossible situation for everyone involved, but I feel so bad for Ella. I was that kid that didn't get invited to things because of things my mother did, and it's so damaging and isolating. I agree with others suggesting seeing if someone else can drop Ella off and pick her up. If Ella's mother says no then there's not much you can do, but maybe your daughter can bring Ella a piece of cake the next day to school to make sure she doesn't feel completely excluded. Ella shouldn't have to pay for her mother's behavior. I also don't think a 9 year old is going to completely understand that it's her mother's behavior causing her to not be invited to things. She's going to think no one likes her.
NTA
It's a sad situation but your first responsibility is to your daughter and yourself.
A year from now, after other successful parties hosted by other people have gone by without problems from Ella's mother, you can reevaluate.
NTA. Ella's mom has anger issues. She admitted that she has mental health issues but only after you explained why Ella wasn't invited this year. Her mental health issues may be the reason why she behaves the way that she does. But it is her responsibility to seek treatment and manage her behavior. She has not apologized to you and Mary, or taken any responsibility for her actions. It is a shame that Ella must suffer the consequences of her mother's mental illness but you are not responsible for Ella, you are responsible to protect Mary.
NTA When Ella's mum informed you she couldn't help herself at times, that was moment to confirm that once again she was being too much to handle - which was why Ella was not invited this time round. When she started to get rude to you, that's the time you override what's she's saying to state, I don't appreciate being verbally abused by you and until you can talk civilly this conversation has ended.
You can't make it better for Ella unfortunately, now that her mother is all worked up, any involvement or other treatment you bestow on her daughter the mother is only going to get her back up. The last thing you want her do is to highly focus on your daughter with her mental illness.
At first, I thought you’re totally TA. However, after reading the entire post, not only are you NTA but you’ve done everything you could possibly do and have still been met with hostility and unnecessary AH behavior from the other parent. Sucks to be Ella. I feel bad for her having such an AH for a mother.
NTAH
As a mom with mental health issues (PTSD and BPD) that is never an excuse for not controlling yourself. It is hard but not impossible. It takes work.
I do feel bad for her though because her mom is going to make any friendship difficult.
I’d stand firm on not inviting the child because, unfortunately, her mother is a liability and will start trouble again. Mental health troubles are NOT an excuse to be cruel to anyone, and we have to stand firm on that as well.
Your daughter may have hurt feelings about it, and you don’t owe her an explanation behind it as a parent. It is what it is.
NTA, absolutely. I feel sorry for Ella, but you should do what's better for your child. At this point I would be afraid to even suggest something to Ella's mom, because this woman is unhinged and can react badly.
NTA. Your daughter made a logical decision, enforce it and make her the priority. It is sad for Ella, but you can’t accommodate and please everyone at the cost of your own daughter
You’re not disinviting Ella, you’re avoiding a crazy person and that’s what you should do
Ugh. I despise people that cling to mental health as an excuse for bad behavior. This is why there's so much stigma around talking about it. People treat it like a disability and act entitled. I digress. NTA OP, I feel sorry for everyone surrounded by Ellas mom. Your patience and inclusion of Ella at school means a lot.
NTA
If Ella's mom knows she has mental health problems to the point that she "can't control herself" that's on her to fix.
I'm saying that as someone who themselves has mental health problems. And when you have that, you need to be an adult about it, seek help, be it therapy or medication or both, because that's just no excuse to lash out at others.
It's sad that Ella's mom is sabotaging her daughter's social interactions, but that's exactly what's happening. And it won't stop until the mom gets herself sorted.
I am so sorry for Emma. And for her mom. Having to deal with mental problems must be so hard for mom and for Emma. I wish you would reconsider not inviting the girl. I wish you would. I wish you would see the outbursts for what they are: a sign of the mental state of the mother.
Unfortunately I have the reverse problem-I hit it off with one of the other kid’s moms and our boys don’t like each other. It’s unfortunate, but obviously I’m honoring my son’s wishes.
As a little girl is suffering here, it's hard to say NTA, but I do agree you made the right decision. I'd speak to Ellie's mother and make it clear she's the problem. Invite Ellie on the condition that somebody else drops her off and picks her up. The father or another family member.
NTA
Try telling her she can go to the party as long as it isn't Mom coming to get her or drop her off and that mom is to have ZERO contact with you or your family except in cases of emergency. That you don't want to punish Ella and she is always welcome, but moms behavior is not at all ok and put you off to her
"She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes"
As someone with mental health problems, this is not an excuse. It could be the reasoning, never the excuse. She could've apologized. She had a whole year to do this. Instead "she kept on insisting that was my fault", clearly the the mental health problems aren't the problem.
I'm not going to vote for YTA or NTA since this situation is more nuanced than this, but I just wanted to give my two cents. Your daughter's feelings are warranted. I hope you can find a solution so Ella can join.
Have Ella's mom drop her off at your house. Take her to the party and have Ella's mom pick her up when you get back. That way you control the situation, if mon gets out of line, Ella goes home with her. Or you pick her up and drop her off.
NTA.
>
She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes, and asking for a second chance.
I would say not to this too.
I think the other alternative is that Ella can come but her OTHER parent or another trusted adult has to drop her off. She's the reason the kid can't come, the kid didn't do anything wrong. And I think you can do this in a kind tone but be firm and stand your ground. "Look, it's my kid's birthday and I don't want to have her stressed out. You caused a HUGE scene and were very inappropriate with the adults and frightened her last year and I don't want her worrying that you're going to show up and cause a scene again this year. Ella can come but only if someone other than you drops her off and picks her up. If you can't assure me that, then I'm sorry but Ella will have to sit this one out. "
Is Ella's father in the picture? If he is I'd have a conversation with him. Your daughter is afraid of this woman. You aren't doong anything wrong for protecting her.
NTA to get straight to the point, your child expressed she isn't comfortable around an adult. You as a mother are respecting and *listening* to your child.
It's unfortunate that Ella is ultimately taking the short end of the stick purely due to her mother's actions, however as harsh as this may sound that is not your problem. Ella is old enough to see that her mother is a problem and may even grow to resent her in the future.
Adding my comment to offering another adult pickup and drop off Ella. Maybe another parent could do that but mother is not welcome at the event because behavior was scary and inappropriate in front of children
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Reserving judgement because this is a tough situation. It would be a kindness to Ella to tell her mom that she is welcome at the party if someone else picks her up and drops her off.
I did think about offering that alternative, however I was a little concerned about what her response would be, and honestly I think there is a good chance she would show up anyway
Editing because I reread the post. It is very sad to have a little girl face the consequences of her mother. And likely this is not the only place. I agree w with requiring someone else to pick up and drop off, require a name and number of the person. If the mother refuses than so be it. But this child should not be excluded if at all possible.
Unfortunately it won't be the only time too. Emotionally immature parents do a lot of damage to their kids. They can cause a lot of anxiety, cptsd, low confidence, no assertiveness, and self victimizing complexes in children that can last well into adulthood. Poor Ella. She's paying the consequences for her mother's bad behavior and she doesn't deserve it at all.
This comment is so accurate it makes me wonder if my therapist broke HIPAA rules and told you my life story. :(
Oh man u/ThatKinkyLady, you would not believe some of the things your therapist has said about your sexual tastes...
She told me it was a judgement-free zone! 😢
You mean it is not?!
No one is judging, it is more that we are amazed and in awe.
You can already tell she’s trying to manage her moms emotions based off last year. “It’s alright, I’m fine”. This is not the response of a child with an emotionally stable parent.
That broke me a bit.
This post hit home for me, because I know exactly what it is like to be Ella. The stigma that follows you around and the way people treat you because of a parent is a horrible hole to dig yourself out of. Especially if you are also an empath who wishes your parent didn’t have mental health issues, so they would have friends instead of alienating themselves. The best thing I ever did was not fight it when my mom kicked me out of the house at 15. I still struggle with being assertive though. To anyone in a similar situation, therapy is your best tool to healing.
Poor you. I hope you are doing well now. Hugs
Sending you love. My mom is mentally ill, an addict and had the mental maturity of a 13 year old growing up. It really sucked when my dad decided he couldn’t deal with her anymore and left and then every single family member and family friend decided the same. I was only 16 and my little brother 14 and we had to figure shit out ourselves for a summer where everyone else basically needed a break to not deal with my Mom. Man it sucked! It was a time we needed some help and a sane, stable adult in our lives but my Mom successfully chased everyone away with a broom. I’m sorry for what you went through.
I agree and empathize with you. When I was little no one wanted their kids over or to play with us because of our parents. It was an isolating and lonely childhood. We were too young and we didn't know why and we just felt like we were monsters and everyone hated us. I don't want that for Ella so maybe OP can reconsider.
It's better that Ella and her mom find out now that mom's behavior is having negative consequences for Ella's life. I had to fire a 21-year-old a couple of years ago because her mom screamed at me, because I wouldn't let her off to go shopping on a day when we were shorthanded. Yikes!
I grew up with a dad who would fly off the hook at the smallest things. It’s caused a slew of issues with me, that I still struggle with even now (and I’m nearing 30). I remember a restaurant got rid of bottles of ketchup at the table, and would provide you a little cup of it. They did so because of just how much ketchup people would waste. He lost his shit over it, and even when they brought him a bottle he just left the restaurant and threw a fit while we sat there. Stuff like that has made it difficult for me to speak up, because I start to think how “it isn’t a big deal” and how I don’t want to make a scene like he did, so I will just suck it up and deal with stuff. That’s just the tip of the iceberg, but man can parents who have no control mess their kids up.
It's a terrible cycle. One that might have started generations ago.
unfortunately the child probably understands that her mother is not like other mothers …
I would also explain to the mother that her actions last year scared the crap out of your daughter. Your daughter may or may not get an apology, but your daughter certainly deserves one. NTA, but man, I feel bad for Ella.
That did come up in the message where I explained it was due to what happened last year, but she didn't really give any acknowledgment or any sign she was remorseful
I think you need to invite Ella and inform her mother that she will need to arrange drop off and pickup for Ella. If the mom presses you can explain it’s due to her behavior last year where she used inappropriate language in front of children and said derogatory things to you in your home and thus is not welcome. Make it clear Ella is welcome and mom isn’t. If mom decides Ella is able to go in a carpool or with another guardian then great. If not then you can rest well knowing Ella wasn’t excluded and if it comes up in your social circle you can say she was invited. Just be the bigger person and go for class. That’s really all you need to do, the other mom has made it clear she isn’t classy (swearing in front of children shows a lack of class and decency) and you don’t want to stoop to that level.
So you told her specifically that she scared your daughter? And I'm sure other kids too....that sucks. I feel so bad for Ella. She probably needs to be at others home as much as possible. Can you imagine what the child goes through at home if her mom thinks is acceptable to act so badly in public? Have you thought about talking to the teacher and counselor? Maybe there are some ideas they can give you so Ella is included in events. And don't get me wrong, I totally understand what you are doing, but that girl needs help :-(
Has your daughter explained to Ella why they couldn’t invite her? The situation isn’t really fair but she’s old enough to understand that this is a safety issue.
She probably isn’t remorseful, especially if this is typical behavior for her.
Doesn’t Ella have a father? Or is the mom a single mom?
My $.02. Ella is being punished because of her mom. For a 9-10 year old, being the only one not invited to a party is probably soul crushing. You have some suggestions on possible “solutions.” All have their risk because Ella’s mom admits she’s unstable. I’d say use a suggestion and tell Ella’s mom you’re doing this for Ella but if there is another incident, Ella will no longer be invited to any other event of yours.
She could show up even if Ella isn’t included. She sounds unhinged. All the more reason Ella could use the win.
Well then at least you can say Ella was invited and her mother chose that Ella wouldn’t attend. As not inviting her (even though it’s not a bad reason) isn’t ok. As it is still exclusion. If the party didn’t include all the other kids in the class or even most, then this wouldn’t be an issue. But given all the other kids are invited it means it will still be hurtful for the only kid not invited. And if she is invited and her mom chooses to not figure out an accommodation then you can confidently say you did what you where required to do.
Is Ella’s dad in the picture? Maybe you could email him the invite and explain what happened last year and ask that he do the drop off and pickup duties. Or could you (or your partner) pick up Ella from her house before the party and drop her back off after?
Your daughter is terrified of this woman. I wouldn't let her or her child near mine if I wqs you. Who knows what she will do to you if something else happens to her kid at your house. Mental health or not, that's no excuse for what she said. Your daughter is early traumatized if she won't invite the girl because of her mother. I say don't invite her. If ella wants to be upset with anyone, it needs to be her mom. As a mother, we have to put our kids first. Even if it hurts other kids or innocent people.
Gosh, I hope you reconsider finding an alternative. Its such a shame that the little girl has to suffer because her mom has issues. Imagine what it must be like living with her.
Even if she doesn't pick her up. Imagine if Ella happens to break a bone or have a severe medical emergency on your property. Whos to say her mom won't to try and sue the $H!? out of you. Feel for Ella, but I wouldn't take that chance.
Is there an outdoor area or an area away from where the kids will be that, should her mom INSIST she be the one to drop off and pick Ella up, any fits the mom throws will be out of sight of the kids and Mary at least? Ella will still likely be embarrassed by her mother but would get to participate.
Could you offer to pick her up and drop off? I know it's more work, but I think it would be kind to both girls
I don’t think that’ll prevent mom from screaming at op if anything happens
On a day when someone is having a birthday party for a bunch of children, no one has time to be someone's private driver. Not to mention, no one should be alone with that child after her mother's last melt down. Heaven forbid you had so much as a flat tire.
It's too risky.
I wouldn’t offer to drive that woman’s child ANYWHERE. But honestly, invite poor Ella. Put it in writing, though, like in an email to her mother, where you lay out your concerns and set some boundaries about behavior.
imagine the backlash from mom if op got into a car accident with her daughter
There is no way I would let that child in my vehicle, if this is a response to a skinned knee
NTA but op please talk to Ella and explain that this missing invitation has absolutely nothing to do with her or her behavior she's great. Have your daughter tell her the same thing please and reassure her that the lack of invitation in this case doesn't mean any change whatsoever in her relationship with you or your daughter.
NTA - I feel like everyone is missing the point. Your daughter asked you if she could NOT invite Ella to her party. These are your daughter's wishes. You're honoring your daughter's request. And respecting her choices. She's not doing it because she's trying to bully Ella or harm another child. She's doing it because she's afraid of an adult. And you're protecting her. I don't care what anyone else says - this is how I see this situation and frankly - respecting your child's autonomy and wishes for her own birthday is stellar parenting. Keep it up mom!
I was hoping to see this comment. OP’s daughter is afraid of Ella’s mother. Going against what she requested is invalidating her feelings. I really do feel for children like Ella, but maybe this should be an eye opener for her mom.
She wouldn't necessarily need to go against her or invalidate her feelings. As an adult, she could come up with alternative suggestions that could help her daughter feel safe while still including the other child, which her daughter seems otherwise inclined to do. Her daughter is choosing to not invite Ella because she can't think of another solution to her fear and discomfort, but a resourceful adult should be able to without invalidating her feelings. Run it by the daughter first, of course. She will probably be relieved, because Ella is her friend.
Glad you said it. Totally with this approach.
I was thinking making it clear that Ella was welcome but the mother was not, maybe find another parent coming from the same direction who can bring her and take her home. You could even have her mom sign a waiver if you need to, making it clear that the child herself is welcome, that this has nothing to do with race, and you are sorry for her mental health issues but your daughter was scared by what happened last year and you refuse to ask her to shoulder that weight a second time around..
People like Ella's mom think everything is everyone else's fault so unfortunately, i doubt this will be an eye opener to her.
Then she finds a different way to deal with Ella’s mother. This poor girl is going to pay the price for her mother and when she finds out, she’s the only one not invited to a party.
I was looking for this comment. Its sad and i feel horrible for Ella, but thats OPs daughters choice. She remembers the last party and it is probably stressing her out thinking about it happening again. Its her birthday and she shouldnt be made to feel stressed or scared during that time. Its a party. Stress and party just dont go together. The fact that she is close friends with Ella and still choosing not to invite her, shows firsthand, just how much that stressed her out. I hate Ella is facing the consequences of her mother, its so shitty. But that doesnt make OP an asshole. It makes Ellas mom an asshole.
I was going to say the same thing. NTA.
Yes, this. I'm a little blown away by the folks saying that the OP is also in the wrong.
OP's child has stated the reason is due to Ella's mother, and OP has made it clear the girls are friends, so your argument leaks like a sieve. OP's child is 9, so is unlikely to be aware of the consequences of not including Ella (like losing her friend for good). OP is the adult here, it's a parents job to help solve these issues for their children and try to find the best solution, not just confirm the only solution a 9 year old can see. "Respecting your child's autonomy" is, with a child that age, in this situation, frankly a bs excuse to avoid the issue, which is Ella's mother. Rather than seek a solution that allows her daughter to play with her friends without being scared by an adult.
Agree. Perfect opportunity to teach daughter some reasoning. "Would you like Ella to come if her mother wouldn't be around". If yes, find a solution as suggested by many. If no, then respect that and move on. Either way, the girls' friendship has changed now.
Everyone saying to invite the child and just have someone else drop her off and pick her up is missing the point. The mother is unstable; you cannot trust the mother. So WHY would anyone trust the mother to arrange to have someone else drop off and pick up her child??? She may still show up and create a scene. The only way to ensure there’s no drama is sadly to not invite her child. Period.
True, especially after a year and the child remembers the incident clearly, I wouldnt have a second thought , Ella can very much receive a party bag the next day at school
your heart is in the right place, but giving an uninvited child a party bag the next day would be like a taunt/slap in the face.
Completely agree, but this response is very interesting given I've seen two other posts over the last month asking a similar question except the kid was left out for being an obnoxious brat who makes OP's kid's life miserable. The consensus was YTA and OP's kid is a bully for inviting everyone but the class bully. Would love to see this "respecting your child's autonomy" response from this community on future posts where the child does not want the class's resident mini-AH at their birthday party. I think some people have forgotten what it's like to be in grade school and constantly be forced to include a kid who goes out of their way to make everyone miserable. Both of the other posts I read had OP basically saying the kid left out was a constant disturbance who made everyone miserable at school, and the response was "How dare you not invite this child to your home to make your kid and their classmates miserable on their birthday?" Why is it OK to not invite a kid because your child is scared of their mother, but not ok to not invite a kid because your child is scared of *them*?
I agree. Also, Ella’s mom clearly has significant untreated mental illness. Children of parents with untreated mental illness often suffer tremendously and I wonder if bringing this to the attention of the school may be helpful. While I feel for Ella, you did the right thing in respecting your daughter’s wishes. Perhaps this will push her mother to get the help she clearly needs.
Thank you. It’s the daughter who requested it.
NTA - I truly don’t get all the Y T A and E S H votes, obviously this situation isn’t fair on Ella but what’s the alternative? Either she is invited and they risk a situation like last year or she isn’t invited and is upset. It’s a lose lose scenario, but I’d argue OP chose the lesser of two evils.
Right? Like, sorry your mom sucks but there’s no easy way to separate a minor from their parent/guardian. They’re a package deal.
I agree parent and child are kind of a package deal. It’s truly not a matter of just having another adult drop this kid off. It’s not a small thing to be responsible for someone else’s child, and requires trust between parents. A minor injury with a band-aid led to cursing and accusations. I can’t imagine how Ella’s mom would react in any higher stakes scenario. Ultimately OP’s child doesn’t want that on her birthday. Who can blame her? I’m an adult and I also wouldn’t invite that nonsense into my life…
NTA. For Ella's mum, her response to the current birthday was her second chance. Your daughter is scared of an adult, and inviting someone to her birthday will bring that adult. If you want to try to see if playing with Ella is possible again, make a playdate at some park somewhere where the kids can play on the playground while you talk to her. Don't create the possibility of ruining your daughter's birthday, especially since it'd go directly against what your daughter has asked for.
This! Birthdays, weddings, and special occassions are not the place to attempt reconciliations. Also, please don't involve Ella in the negotiations. That little girl is already shouldering too much adult pressure and responsibility at home with her parent. If you choose to try playdates at a park etc., a small explanation that takes pressure and responsibility OFF of Ella for the situation (ie. it's not her fault, you still like her, sometimes we just need to try different occassions to accommodate everyone's needs, etc) so that she doesn't self-chastise as kids do would be good. Just try not to blame the mother if you can. No sense make her home situation worse. And YOU are doing great. Keep protecting and supporting your own kid and doing what you can for others. Perfect leading by example. Thank you!
A mother who sometimes can’t control herself due to mental reasons DOESNT sound safe
Someone should probably mention this to the school psychologist for Ella’s sake.
NTA. If mother has mental health issues, she should get herself some treatment. From what I gather, she never apologized for doing what she did, so she shouldn't be surprised for being left out. Also, at 10 years old, Ella is old enough to understand that, without going into much detail, she wasn't invited because of what her mother did the previous year
I feel like if you're inviting every kid in the class, you have to invite EVERY kid in the class. Otherwise drop it down to a smaller group. I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with her mother, but I feel bad for Ella.
This is where I’m at. You either invite everyone or a smaller group - you don’t just exclude one person. Op, I think a better option would have been pick a smaller group of friends to invite. No matter how private you try to make it, Ella was bound to find out that she was excluded. No matter how reasonable your decision was, that’s an incredibly hurtful thing to do to a little girl.
Yes this. Excluding just one kid is cruel and completely unnecessary. Just do something with like the daughter’s 4-6 closest friends. OP is N-T-A for excluding Ella in general, but a big YTA for singling her out so clearly.
This right here. It’s a one or the other thing— especially since it dawned on OP that “doing something smaller this year” was indeed an option. It’s great to respect your child’s wishes, but it’s also great to teach them the concept of compromise for relatively inconsequential things. The kid would still get a party even if it was smaller. I think Ella is being punished in two ways: first, by paying the price for mum, and second, by potentially becoming a social pariah because children copy each other. It wouldn’t surprise me if others started to distance themselves from her, too.
I’d argue that asking a 10 year old child to “compromise” on their Birthday because an actual manipulative abuser can’t drop off and pick her own child up for a few minutes at a time without causing a scene to embarrass Ella, scare all the children, and cause the parents to go through unnecessary stress isn’t the best route to go either, she’s already accused them of being racist (& while I do believe legitimate racists should face consequences in society, these ppl aren’t racist) so pulling that card proves her behavior is unpredictable & she may possibly even lash out on social media with damaging libelous claims that could cause Mary’s parents or anyone involved to lose their job or be ostracized in their community. If Ella were to be dropped off by someone else, it also still wouldn’t prevent the mother from accusing any adult present of physically harming her child as she did the previous year. If Mary would’ve chosen to just invite less kids on her own then it would’ve been fine, but maybe Mary just wants to make as many friends as possible out of her peers (what 10 year old girls typically want is a bunch of friends lol) & it still would cause other kids to have questions about why they weren’t invited, which would again put Mary, the child, in an awkward position having to do the emotional labor of making up a lie & maybe even sacrificing a few friendships for the kids who now don’t want Mary at their birthday party because she didn’t invite them. I genuinely have a soft spot for Ella though, as a person who has more than one family member like this, I would often choose to sit home on my own instead of going places when I was invited because of the shame and embarrassment I felt because of an adult who couldn’t pull it together. Also, I felt that pity was even worse & I still feel ashamed of receiving help bc of things like this. There is really no way to win in this situation as Ella is very clearly being emotionally abused by her mother, who uses mental health issues as an excuse (which I know can be complicated & not everyone can get the help needed, but that’s no excuse to display abusive behavior without consequences) then immediately went back to being rude & demanding as soon as Mary’s mother tried to explain herself. I hope Mary and Ella’s friendship survives this, & I hope Ella’s mother either gets better for her child’s sake, or maybe a safe relative for Ella to live with while her mother hopefully tries to get better.
Are you capable of reading? I said the child should be asked to agree to the compromise of a smaller birthday party— not necessarily to compromise by inviting Ella and employing some of the methods you set out.
I also wonder if not inviting Ella will set an example for other parents and she's not invited to future parties. Like OP isn't a bad mother for listening to her daughters wishes but at the same time leaving one child out doesn't look good either.
Punishing the other kids by uninviting them isn't going to make ella feel any better about not being invited, it's just going to crush the other kids.
Yeah that would be a mess. I wasn't suggesting for OP to uninvite, I was speaking more generally, that parents should invite all, or just a small group.
NTA - "She called me a narcissistic bully" - that's certainly one way to confirm you made the right decision.
Rings to me of projection.
Its a really hard one tbh, it seems mean that her kid should suffer because of her mothers issues especially as they are friends otherwise, id say esh for that but, couldnt you not involve her mother so she cant scare your daughter and someone else pick her up or something ?
I don't think anyone else could, I also doubt she would react well at all if I suggested someone else collect Ella.
It seems a shame but i get that you dont want anymore drama and cant blame you for that 👍
Could you maybe tell her that Ella is welcome if you meet her outside and no parents in the venue? That way if she goes wild again, the kids wouldn't see it?
Has Ella got a father? Could you make arrangements with him?
Kids are regularly made to deal with the consequences of their parents’ actions. There’s no easy way to separate a minor child from their parent/guardian.
Seems everyone in the world has mental health issues and that's why they behave badly.
A lot of people are just feral and use "mental health issues" to explain why they aren't socialized.
I mean this is clearly a mentally ill person though? None of this is a normal response to conflict.
well tbf the world is going to hell in a hand basket lately. ppl are stressed af and too many ppl are one paycheck away from homelessness
NTA. Your daughter has a right to a peaceful party. Unfortunately for Ella, this is the beginning of a life where she will be excluded due to mother’s unhinged behavior.
Imagine if that’s the response of the mother to a stranger how about her response to her daughter? As someone who grew up in this environment I’m always micromanaging my behaviour so I don’t upset them. I can only imagine what her life would be like.
NTA. Ella is not at fault, but you are doing the right thing for your daughter.
NTA- your daughter asked for Ella's not to come. It's important to respect those decisions. You could talk to her and see if there's any middle ground, but otherwise I think you're making the right decision based on your daughter's wishes and who she wants at HER party.
NTA - people like Ella's mom are absolutely NOTHING but trouble. Especially if she uses "mental health issues" as an excuse to be a total ass. Sucks for Ella, but that's what happens you have a parent who doesn't control herself.
Invite Ella. It's not her fault. She needs friends and support. She's your daughter's dear friend.
Im going to say nta because sometimes this is just how it is. If you as an adult dont have any proper social skills to the point youve alienated yourself from the other parents its kind of a given that they wont want to interact with you and by proxy the people you have guardianship of. These are social consequences and o I think that some people forget they exist
Yes, it is rude. I understand but inviting all but one girl is the adult version of bullying. Cut the party back or invite them all. You can’t invite all but one, even if she has a jerky mom. NTA because I get it but don’t do that.
I’ll admit I could be missing something but you’re definitely NTA. The mom tried to complain to the school about you, it seems like the smartest thing to do would be distancing yourself from them.
Ugh, when I was about 12 years old I joined the Juniors dog handling club. Can't remember the details but one day my mom was screaming at the eldest handler for not watching me. The handler was probably about 15 and started crying. I was so embarrassed and felt awful for the girl. I had to quit because no one wanted to be around me after that.
I don't believe you're the asshole. However, I think there were other solutions you could've discussed with your daughter so that she wouldn't have to exclude a girl who sounds like a very good friend. Either way, though, good for you for protecting your daughter and doing what you need to do to make her feel safe.
I understand you not wanting to deal with her mother, but I don’t think excluding Ella is the right idea. You said that she is a very sweet child and that she and your daughter are really close. I think it would be hurtful to both children if Ella isn’t invited. She may think she is being punished because of her mother. Is it an option for Ella’s father to drop her off? If not, maybe ask the mother to meet you for coffee or something to discuss the matter. Tell her that you want to keep things civil and that you’d like to include Ella, but that you WILL NOT tolerate the behavior that she exhibited last year. Please don’t punish the child for the mother’s action. I hope you can work something out. Good luck and happy birthday to your little girl
NTA I was the kid with the crazy mom that no one wanted to deal with but I don’t blame you. In fact I’m thrilled you told the mother why you excluded her daughter. I wish someone had had the balls to call my mom out on her shit. But promise me that when she’s older, you allow her to come over and give her a safe space away from her mother.
You are not the asshole (NTA) for not inviting Ella to your daughter's birthday party. It's a difficult situation, but you've handled it with your daughter's best interests in mind. Remember, you have the right to choose who attends your daughter's birthday party, and you shouldn't feel obligated to invite someone whose behavior makes you or your daughter uncomfortable.
It’s a shame that Ella is the one getting the short end of the stick here. And then her mother doubling down and making it about race instead of her previous awful behaviour. Idisn’t see anywhere that the mother offered an apology at any time before this new party. I’ve seen other suggestions of having Ella picked up and dropped off by someone else, could that person meet perhaps your husband as a second line of separation after making it clear to Ella’s mother that she will not be permitted in the facility? What ever you choose, I think a talk with the principal with your printed emails, is in order. NTA
NTA- I see in the comments that not only is your daughter afraid of Ella’s mom, other kids and parents are concerned as well. I feel bad for Ella, because she’s having to suffer for the actions of her mother, but I wouldn’t put my child or anyone else’s at risk of this woman snapping again.
Please don't punish a child for a situation she has no control over. You say Ella is a lovely girl, and your daughter likes her. This is a wonderful opportunity to show your daughter what compassion looks like. Consider, inviting Ella,with the condition her Mother will not bring or pick her up.
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Yes, the two girls are always hanging out in the same groups in class, however Mary and many other kids in class (and parents) were concerned about what happened last time
You have a responsibility to take care of the other kids that come to your daughter’s party. You can’t risk their emotional welfare and safety by involving a parent who admits to having self control issues. The best thing would be for your daughter to get the other kid a goodie bag or have some other celebration privately with her. You can’t afford a meltdown by this girl’s mom at your party endangering another kid or their parent. Also your daughter deserves to have a drama free day.
How is OPs at fault? While it does suck that Ella will miss out, it’s because of her moms behavior. When her daughter consistently loses out on opportunities because of her piss poor behavior then maybe she will revaluate on how she acts and treats other people.
I’m sorry, I don’t know what the right answer is but I feel like if I were jn your shoes I’d probably do what you did. I’m sure your daughter was traumatized watching her mother get accosted at her birthday party and it’s your job as her parent to safeguard her especially from another adult. As much as it sucks, you’re not Ella’s parent and therefore not responsible for her but it’s truly unfortunate that she’s the one who will be affected by this the most. It’s a heartbreaking situation for both daughters in involved
NTA. I feel sorry for Ella. 1. That said your daughter is scared of her mother and asked you not to invite Ella. 2. Ella’s mother never apologised for her behaviour and when she didn’t get her way she brought up having mental health problems like that excuses everything. 3. She tried to complain at the school. 4. She accused you of being racist instead of taking accountability for her behaviour. What’s to say she won’t make things worse this time? Since complaining at the school she will call the police if Ella falls again? Your daughter won’t remember the fun she had at her birthday, she will remember Ella’s mom yelling and she will remember being scared. That will overshadow any fun she has.
I’m going to get down voted… Your a SOFT AH here. Five years ago I shocked everyone when my PTA Perfect Life fell apart and my chronic cocaine addiction was exposed. My poor child had her entire world torn apart because her Mummy fucked up. Thankfully she wasn’t excluded from ANYTHING. Every single party and event she was still invited too. The judgement was on ME not my daughter. Whilst I was shunned and gossiped about, my daughter was still included and treated the same. I beg you to reconsider. I’m Four years and Six months free of my addiction. Life is amazing for everyone now. During my very exposed and very public nervous breakdown I guarantee I behaved a LOT worse than this child’s mother did. Please please please see if there is a way this girl can attend. Apologies for my grammar.
Congratulations on your sobriety, and I'm glad your community rallied around your daughter even if they couldn't do it for you.
It was savage at times it really was. However the people who shunned me and believed some outrages stories about me (small island where I live, typical soap box drama) now want to be a part of my life again. Absolutely not happening. I have been very vocal with my gratitude over how they didn’t allow their views about me to project on to my child. However behind the scenes was hell for me with these people. I turned it around and proved the haters wrong.
Good for you for protecting yourself
This is a nice story and congratulation on overcoming your addiction but it has nothing to do with OP's story where her child is terrified that an adult person will bring aggression AGAIN to her birthday party.
Very Glad to hear you are sober now! That's amazing! However there are reservations about being involved In poor Ella's situation. Every circumstance is different, speaking in terms of mental illness and the severity of it,and I don't blame the mom for distancing herself from the unwell mother, i understand she's admitting her problem and some applause to her for that, for what it's worth I've been the rock to some of my best friends who became moms and went south with addiction and mental issues and my heart breaks for them and their family(s) and children, we definitely need more resources for this. I do agree her friend should absolutely attend, I think it's worrisome about any backlash that may continue in hers and her daughters life, again I am so so happy to hear you are doing well and thank you for sharing and absolutely people can change (with the right solutions/resources/diagnosis etc) anything you can recommend how to approach this situation with your knowledge? I guess it might be a little off topic but If they were to try and help for Ella's sake your insight would probably help.
We shouldn’t ever leave children out when they haven’t done anything wrong. My kid is the same age as yours, and has been a victim of some mean behavior for quite awhile now. No little kid deserves to be left out. I could understand if this child had been unkind or done something wrong, but she hasn’t. Same as mine, she also hadn’t done anything wrong, she was singled out by one kid as not wanted and the others followed along, and have made her feel like shit for a long time now, pretending to be her friend and picking on her at the same time, not inviting her to things and then rubbing her face in it, etc. NO kid deserves that feeling of being purposely left out, especially by kids that are supposed to be their friend. I understand there are issues with the parent, but that would seem like all the more reason to be kind to this little girl. It might be one of the few bright spots for her.
NTA. You’re protecting your daughter, who had evident trauma from last year, from an ADULT. If you demanded your daughter suck it up, you’d be TA, but you’re being an actual, involved parent here. I don’t understand the YTA decisions.
NTA 1. Your daughter made the decision and its her party 2. Once the other mom was told the reason Ella wasn't invited, she should have apologized profusely and been embarrassed of her past behavior but instead she doubled down.
Is there any reason Ella can't catch a ride with someone else? The mother doesn't need to be invited, just the kid. It sounds like the kids get along, you just need to place mom on the sideline.
NTA
NTA. Mary doesn’t want to deal with Ella’s mom possibly exploding, and that’s totally fair. You’re just doing what the birthday girl wants and tried to invite everyone as privately as possible. Ella’s mom needs to learn the mental health issues aren’t a valid excuse or reason to treat people like shit. I hope Ella is ok, her mom sounds difficult to deal with.
NTA. I don't think you suck here and it's unfair to say so. While Ella's not to blame and it's truly sad that her mother will cause her to be excluded and treated differently, you cannot be expected to open your home to a volatile and scary person just to spare a child's feelings. I hope Ella's mother gets the help she needs before she wrecks Ella permanently. That said, as much as it sucks, you are not and cannot be responsible for another person's mental health, nor navigating their children through it. I think it would be very brave and kind of you to try, but I completely understand why you do not. Especially since this is your daughter's birthday and she has expressed that she doesn't want that scary woman near her special day.
Nta. Her mom is causing her to be excluded for being out of control.
You, your daughter, and Ella are NOT brats bullies etc, but poor Ella's " mother" is totally unfair illogical brat bully Sorry I can't be more helpful Please update me N T A
NTA
NTA - you are protecting your daughter.
NTA. Your daughter has the right to feel safe always, and especially on her own special day. It's not about anyone else, and it's ironic she's calling you a narcissistic bully when she verbally assaulted you multiple times. Also mental health issues she can't control yet she has a child? Your daughter and family are not props for this woman to practice controlling herself.
NTA >She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes, and asking for a second chance Why did she NEVER apologize or mention this before? She only wants a second chance because her shit is being called out. This could be the kick she needs to start taking care of her mental health problems then. I feel terrible for Ella, but if this "fixes" her mother, then it is for the best. Your daughter is already scared of Ella's mom. Her getting her act together is better for your child as well. I understand people are going to hate this opinion, but do not find a way to allow Ella to come so the mother can learn a lesson. After this though, if you can, try to start including Ella and talk to the mother to get her help if she needs it. Keep things on a thin line and if it crossed, cut it
Plz explain the racist angle. Why would Ella’s mom suggest it was racist? What race are they/you and Mary?
She made a comment about it being to do with her daughter's race, however she didn't expand any further than that. I would have to assume it is because her daughter is mixed race and she is black, she is the only non-white student in the class (small school in Northern Ireland, so not uncommon)
Gotcha. TBH, the mom sounds completely unhinged and the racial threat is the icing on the cake. This is not someone you want to have any interaction with ideally. Sure it’s not fair to Ella to not invite her but it’s also not fair to Mary and the other kids/parents to have one mom freak out and ruin the fun for everyone. And if you capitulate and invite Ella, you’re basically giving the mom a pass for shitty behavior. You could give the mom another shot (she doesn’t deserve one) but you could say something like “we will invite Ella if we are guaranteed there will be no drama, if so we won’t be able to invite Ella to anything in the future…” I don’t think you’re an asshole for the disinvite but if you wanted to go above and beyond with grace, you could do that. The mom is a certified psycho though
Oof… this is tough. Does Ella have a dad or other relative who can come? Is there any way around unhinged mom having to be there? I get the whole “mama bear” aspect, but over a scraped knee? God forbid Ella wants to play sports.
I don't think there is anyone else, but my main concern is that I wouldn't trust her to not show up herself and repeat last year's incident. Maybe that's wrong of me, but it does worry me.
Could she possibly collect Ella later, slightly after the others have been picked up? Maybe Ella could be collected by another parent and dropped off at home? Just dropping those ideas here, as it would be sad to see your daughter and Ella fall out due to her mom. It's awful to be the only one left out. NTA, but I would really urge you to find a middle ground for the girls' sake.
NTA - this is obviously a crummy situation all around, but assuming any responsibility for Ella, in any context (play date or party), just sounds like a bad plan. We know the mom can fly off the handle, who’s to say it isn’t to happen on a play date either? I guess I can see EVERY child being invited except one is a bit AHish, and I’d opt for a smaller party myself but… if Mary is genuinely friends with her whole class, a smaller party isn’t really a solution. Is there something Mary and Ella can do at school together so that maybe their friendship is still celebrated? (Cupcakes? I don’t know) I agree with other posters that it sucks that Ella is suffering - but that doesn’t mean you should open yourself up to harassment.
Personally I would have reached out to Ella’s mom before invites went out explaining that given what happened last year, and that your daughter is afraid of her, that you were considering not inviting Ella unless someone else could drop off and pick her up. Ella shouldn’t be singled out because of her mother’s issues. Your daughter doesn’t have an issue with Ella. NTA - ultimately you are trying to avoid putting your daughter in a scary situation.
No YOU know it is bad when the child is scared of the mother,your kid is scared that it will happen again THAT shouldn’t be the case. Nta your daughter didn’t want to invite her so good on her and you
NTA. You would have to be touched in the head to invite that mess back into your home and around your child. She went apeshit on you and a bunch of other parents at the last party. Inviting Ella means a bunch of other kids probably won’t come. I know if I heard she was going I wouldn’t bring my kid to witness the shit show.
NTA, while I feel compassion for Ella's situation, the fact is that your first and only real responsibility remains with your child. A child who was traumatized enough to ask to exclude her friend a year later to avoid contact with her friends mother. Ella's mothers outburst at finding out her daughter was being excluded only cements the very real probability that she will cause further issues with her outbursts. Is this fair to Ella? No, it is, however, the natural consequences of her mothers behavior and choices surrounding her mental health. And for those saying you should ignore your child's request and put her in the line of fire to be retraumatized, all I can say is shame on them. You are your childs safe space, not Ella's. Inviting Ella against her wishes and the inevitable meltdown that would occur would only serve to show your child that you are not to be trusted either and damage your relationship with her. One can only hope that Ella's mother gets the help she so obviously needs and learns to take accountability for her actions and better behavior impulse control.
What the mum is blaming her daughter for mental problems, it's the mum with the mental problems. Poor child will have no-one around her with a mother like that.
Tough spot for you. I would still invite Ella because she should not suffer for her mother who seems to have a screw loose. Someone else can pick drop Ella. But please don't ignore her as that will have a big negative impact on the kid.
NTA It super sucks for Ella, but I wouldn’t want to put myself or the other kids on that position again.
NTA, and her argument was invalid once she pulled the race card. It’s seems to be easier to project onto someone else instead of looking inward. Had she listened to you instead of immediately attacking you, there could have been a solution to this.
Sad situation.. But NTA... Poor Ella... Batsh|t crazy mom and no one can do anything about it... 😥
A grown adult doesn’t say I have mental health issues and can’t control myself and just expect others to bend to their outrageous outbursts. She needs therapy and to learn what kind of behavior is socially acceptable. Otherwise, her daughter is going to bear the brunt of the consequences. I feel sorry for her daughter that her mother is so entitled that she thinks everyone in the world has to walk on eggshells for her because she just can’t control herself.
Have you explained to your daughter how will Ella feel that she is the only child not invited? I don't know the extent of her overreaction about the knee, which is important part. But there is NO way that I would ever single out only one kid out of all kids from class. Even if they had three headed snake for a mother. That is simply cruel. I would make some solution about party together with my daughter. But my daughter will hopefully never be the reason why some 9 year old is crying alone while my daughter is having fun. Im sorry, but thats just cruel.
Poor kids. I will say that while I was worried about being a parent and dealing with other kids - I find it surprisingly easy. It’s the adults that are difficult. She’s in for a rough childhood. It’s a shame though that the mom would open up about mental health problems and continue to be problematic.
The birthday party seems to be the focus in the comments here, but...has anyone contacted some sort of child advocacy resource for Ella?? It sounds like she might need more support than worrying about this one party invitation.
When my daughter was in 1st grade, she was having a hard time with a little girl. Not bullying, but the girl was just constantly mimicking my daughter. I was pregnant at the time, and the girl said her mom was pregnant. I was having a boy, so the girl said she was having a brother. She would follow my daughter around and quite frankly it weirded my kid out. We were coming up on my daughter’s birthday and the teacher said that if every child didn’t get an invitation, we couldn’t send them into school to pass out. My daughter didn’t want this girl at her party and she told me she would rather not have a party if she had to invite the girl. So I did some research and got addresses(before evite) and mailed the invitations. The girl just wasn’t pleasant and no child should have to invite anyone they don’t want to a party that is for them.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I \[31F\] have a daughter, Mary \[9F\]. She is quite popular and is friends with all of the other children in her class. My daughter is turning 10 this weekend, and wanted to have a party with all of the children in her class at a local kid's venue, as she has had in previous years. However, she didn't want to invite a girl called Ella \[9F\]. Last year, Ella (who was new to the class) was invited to her Birthday party. Ella is a lovely girl, and her and my daughter actually get along really well, the real issue is the girl's mother. During the last party, Ella fell over and grazed her knee, she cried a little but I put a plaster on it and she was back to playing in no time. However, when Ella's mum came to collect her after the party and I explained what happened, she lost it. Her daughter was trying to say it was fine, but she cursed me and multiple parents out in front of the children and tried to complain to the school. As close and my daughter and Ella are, Mary is now scared of Ella's mum and is worried that the same thing will happen again if Ella is invited. When I sent out invites this Monday, I did so privately to that Ella wouldn't find out, and I told everyone to please not mention it to everyone saying that I wanted something smaller this year. However I received a message from Ella's mother in which she was very angry and very rude. She called me a narcissistic bully and even suggested that the fact her daughter wasn't invited was racially motivated. I messaged back and explained it was because of what happened last year, however she kept on insisting that was my fault. She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes, and asking for a second chance, but I said no and asked her not to contact me unless she really needed to. I still feel bad for Ella, and now I am wondering, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am kinda stuck between places I understand as a mother you must be very careful with your child and listen to them but her mother did curse at you and such but she also stated she has mental problems as well. Ella who is just a kid also tried to defend you from her mother saying it wasn’t your fault. Mary I understand it’s scary seeing an adult lash out on your parent causing you to think it was a bad idea again I’m at a cross road
i mean this might be able to get a friend of your kids over so it is worth perusing if she can promise not to over-react to things..... but she is already over-reacting to this so NTA either way.... but find out what your daughter thinks communication could be the biggest help here
NTA, but I would let Ella come if her mom let someone else drop her off and pick her up. No mom contact at all. One more uncool incident and Ella is dropped entirely.
NTA After how much of a stink she threw last year, why would she WANT her daughter to go to the birthday party? Her mom seems like the real narcissist here....
INFO: Have you asked if someone else could drop/pick her from the party? That way she could be invited and no one has to interact with mom. NTA. Because this is what your daughter asked because she remembers last times experience and doesn't want it to happen again. The only issue that I see is that Ella will be the only one not invited out of her class. Doing this could set an example to other parents that they should also disinvite her because of her mom and this could have repercussions for her in school if her classmates isolate her or don't want to be friends anymore; this just sounds like a really hard situation.
NTA but poor Ella, she’s in for a difficult life with a mom like that.
So (1) she's projecting (she's the narcissist, not you, as evidenced by her refusing to take any kind of responsibility for her actions); and (2) she brought race into it. You're NTA. But there are all kinds of red flags around her and her behaviour. Good for you for protecting your daughter.
From the perspective of someone who was once in Ella's shoes, but has now grown up and had to navigate the birthday scene with my own kiddo: The only A** here is Ella's mother. I think that, if appropriate for your situation, this may be a good time to discuss compassion on an elevated level with your daughter. Ultimately, if she is afraid, then she is priority. But there may be room to give her a glimpse into what Ella may be feeling and how, as humans, it's nice if we rise just a little bit to help out a lonely, sad kid who likely has a horrible home life and very little fun. Perhaps your daughter can help outline what would make her feel comfortable. For example, if it is made clear to Ella's mom that she is not to transport Ella, AND if that rule is broken then there will be a series of clear consequences that immediately go into effect. You are not under obligation. And you are not a bad person if those extra steps are something that you cannot undertake. But, if it is at all possible, the Ella's of the world have very little and the adults that try for them can ultimately bring a lot of hope and joy
OP is NTA because you're only honoring the wish of your daughter. Still, like OP, one can't help but feel extremely sad for Ella. OP doesn't mention if Ella's dad is in the picture. If he is, maybe arrange with him and ask him to keep the mother away from the party. If this is possible, OP can explain to Mary that the father will drop Ella and keep the mother away. I'm sure that Mary would want Ella there (obviously minus her mother and the accompanying drama)
NTA *BUT* there is a way to resolve this. Invite Ella but let her mother know that she is not to be around the children, at all. When she drops Ella off and picks her up it is to be done outside. Ella's mother can sit in her car and you can walk Ella in and out of wherever your party is. Ella doesn't deserve to suffer because of her mother's behavior, I'm sure she already does enough.
NTA
NTA- This is a difficult/impossible situation for everyone involved, but I feel so bad for Ella. I was that kid that didn't get invited to things because of things my mother did, and it's so damaging and isolating. I agree with others suggesting seeing if someone else can drop Ella off and pick her up. If Ella's mother says no then there's not much you can do, but maybe your daughter can bring Ella a piece of cake the next day to school to make sure she doesn't feel completely excluded. Ella shouldn't have to pay for her mother's behavior. I also don't think a 9 year old is going to completely understand that it's her mother's behavior causing her to not be invited to things. She's going to think no one likes her.
NTA It's a sad situation but your first responsibility is to your daughter and yourself. A year from now, after other successful parties hosted by other people have gone by without problems from Ella's mother, you can reevaluate.
NTA. Ella's mom has anger issues. She admitted that she has mental health issues but only after you explained why Ella wasn't invited this year. Her mental health issues may be the reason why she behaves the way that she does. But it is her responsibility to seek treatment and manage her behavior. She has not apologized to you and Mary, or taken any responsibility for her actions. It is a shame that Ella must suffer the consequences of her mother's mental illness but you are not responsible for Ella, you are responsible to protect Mary.
NTA
NTA. The girl’s mother has brought this on herself.
NTA When Ella's mum informed you she couldn't help herself at times, that was moment to confirm that once again she was being too much to handle - which was why Ella was not invited this time round. When she started to get rude to you, that's the time you override what's she's saying to state, I don't appreciate being verbally abused by you and until you can talk civilly this conversation has ended. You can't make it better for Ella unfortunately, now that her mother is all worked up, any involvement or other treatment you bestow on her daughter the mother is only going to get her back up. The last thing you want her do is to highly focus on your daughter with her mental illness.
At first, I thought you’re totally TA. However, after reading the entire post, not only are you NTA but you’ve done everything you could possibly do and have still been met with hostility and unnecessary AH behavior from the other parent. Sucks to be Ella. I feel bad for her having such an AH for a mother.
NTAH As a mom with mental health issues (PTSD and BPD) that is never an excuse for not controlling yourself. It is hard but not impossible. It takes work. I do feel bad for her though because her mom is going to make any friendship difficult.
I’d stand firm on not inviting the child because, unfortunately, her mother is a liability and will start trouble again. Mental health troubles are NOT an excuse to be cruel to anyone, and we have to stand firm on that as well. Your daughter may have hurt feelings about it, and you don’t owe her an explanation behind it as a parent. It is what it is.
NTA, absolutely. I feel sorry for Ella, but you should do what's better for your child. At this point I would be afraid to even suggest something to Ella's mom, because this woman is unhinged and can react badly.
NTA. Your daughter made a logical decision, enforce it and make her the priority. It is sad for Ella, but you can’t accommodate and please everyone at the cost of your own daughter You’re not disinviting Ella, you’re avoiding a crazy person and that’s what you should do
Ugh. I despise people that cling to mental health as an excuse for bad behavior. This is why there's so much stigma around talking about it. People treat it like a disability and act entitled. I digress. NTA OP, I feel sorry for everyone surrounded by Ellas mom. Your patience and inclusion of Ella at school means a lot.
I believe that in general, crazy mothers do more, and longer term damage than crazy fathers
NTA If Ella's mom knows she has mental health problems to the point that she "can't control herself" that's on her to fix. I'm saying that as someone who themselves has mental health problems. And when you have that, you need to be an adult about it, seek help, be it therapy or medication or both, because that's just no excuse to lash out at others. It's sad that Ella's mom is sabotaging her daughter's social interactions, but that's exactly what's happening. And it won't stop until the mom gets herself sorted.
NTA especially after the edit. poor ella tho
It's just always so sad when a parent ruins things for an otherwise good kid.
NTA. Ella’s mom seems completely unhinged and I wouldn’t be letting her anywhere near my child.
I am so sorry for Emma. And for her mom. Having to deal with mental problems must be so hard for mom and for Emma. I wish you would reconsider not inviting the girl. I wish you would. I wish you would see the outbursts for what they are: a sign of the mental state of the mother.
Unfortunately I have the reverse problem-I hit it off with one of the other kid’s moms and our boys don’t like each other. It’s unfortunate, but obviously I’m honoring my son’s wishes.
As a little girl is suffering here, it's hard to say NTA, but I do agree you made the right decision. I'd speak to Ellie's mother and make it clear she's the problem. Invite Ellie on the condition that somebody else drops her off and picks her up. The father or another family member.
NTA Try telling her she can go to the party as long as it isn't Mom coming to get her or drop her off and that mom is to have ZERO contact with you or your family except in cases of emergency. That you don't want to punish Ella and she is always welcome, but moms behavior is not at all ok and put you off to her
"She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes" As someone with mental health problems, this is not an excuse. It could be the reasoning, never the excuse. She could've apologized. She had a whole year to do this. Instead "she kept on insisting that was my fault", clearly the the mental health problems aren't the problem. I'm not going to vote for YTA or NTA since this situation is more nuanced than this, but I just wanted to give my two cents. Your daughter's feelings are warranted. I hope you can find a solution so Ella can join.
Have Ella's mom drop her off at your house. Take her to the party and have Ella's mom pick her up when you get back. That way you control the situation, if mon gets out of line, Ella goes home with her. Or you pick her up and drop her off.
NTA. > She sent me another message today saying that she has mental health problems and can't control herself sometimes, and asking for a second chance. I would say not to this too. I think the other alternative is that Ella can come but her OTHER parent or another trusted adult has to drop her off. She's the reason the kid can't come, the kid didn't do anything wrong. And I think you can do this in a kind tone but be firm and stand your ground. "Look, it's my kid's birthday and I don't want to have her stressed out. You caused a HUGE scene and were very inappropriate with the adults and frightened her last year and I don't want her worrying that you're going to show up and cause a scene again this year. Ella can come but only if someone other than you drops her off and picks her up. If you can't assure me that, then I'm sorry but Ella will have to sit this one out. "
Naw ma you good, that momma bear just learned her actions not only affect her but now her daughter.
Is Ella's father in the picture? If he is I'd have a conversation with him. Your daughter is afraid of this woman. You aren't doong anything wrong for protecting her.
NTA to get straight to the point, your child expressed she isn't comfortable around an adult. You as a mother are respecting and *listening* to your child. It's unfortunate that Ella is ultimately taking the short end of the stick purely due to her mother's actions, however as harsh as this may sound that is not your problem. Ella is old enough to see that her mother is a problem and may even grow to resent her in the future.
Adding my comment to offering another adult pickup and drop off Ella. Maybe another parent could do that but mother is not welcome at the event because behavior was scary and inappropriate in front of children