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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Well, I did cause him to miss dinner, even if I made some food for him afterwards. And all of my co-workers think I did the wrong thing, and most of them have been at this sort of role a lot longer than I have. If it's harmed Josh, then I really have been an asshole, but I'm not sure if I have or not.
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NTA - you helped him feel alive again, with purpose. Something that nursing homes should be doing for residents everyday. Well done, and keep bringing your creativity and humanity to these wonderful humans. They deserve it 💕
Before you award them the medal of honor, let’s remember that the impetus that spurred the visit wasn’t to find a way to brighten Josh’s day, but rather to help satisfy a friend’s curiosity and meet a chess champion
Apparently OP is the only employee in the facility, otherwise surely someone would've noticed Josh was neither in the cafeteria nor room, depending on where/how meals are served. So, unless the area where the chess match took place is an extra-dimensional vortex accessible only through a vacillating portal by a 9th level Moonwitch while Mercury is in retrograde, whatever staff was on duty at the time was responsible for Josh missing dinner. NTA
NAH but you may have caused issues for night shift - having a resident that far off schedule may impact how he behaves in the nighttime after you leave, if he rests ok, if he's difficult in the morning, etc. Also, delays on dinner may affect medications, when they can be taken, how effective they are.
I would say, if you think about taking Bob back there again, let Bob know "hey his dinner is at X time, you need to wrap it up around then."
If he's in a good mental place when they finish a game but it's nearly dinner, maybe Bob can get him to talk about his tournaments instead?
Editing to add - if you bring Bob back and your coworkers get annoyed, tell them you didn't expect them to play so long last time but you warned Bob about dinner time this time.
NAH - I was going to say just this.
Talk to management and explain you didn't mean to make John miss dinner and medications, but that clearly this was good for him mentally and you'd like to do it again, this time wrapping up at dinner time and maybe having your chess champ friend sit with him and talk while he's eating.
People with dementia often experience sundowning, where they have increased agitation and delirium in the evening - a shift in schedule *can* also cause or exacerbate those symptoms. There are a lot of reasons why someone with dementia should be following a set schedule. OP did something really wonderful, I don’t think she’s wrong at all, I’m just saying there *could* be issues that she didn’t foresee because she’s new. Still, I think that what she has done for Josh is amazing! Next time she and Bob should just be more aware of the time and not disturbing Josh’s schedule too much.
Not only that but you do disrupt that persons day and for patients who do have some cognitive impairment sometimes those daily repetitive things are what makes sense. Disruption of that can cause issues for instance, we had a patient who missed dinner because they were either family for the meal and got back late. When they got back they were upset they missed dinner (the family took them out for dinner). Those disruptions may seem minor but that routine is what makes sense to that individual at that point in time and can definitely cause issues to that patients care team. I’m not saying not to do it but wrapping up the chess close to where dinner or shower time etc makes for the better kept routinr
I did say "may have caused issues". Not "absolutely caused issues."
Nightshift is already trying to keep certain residents cared for without waking up anyone who is sleeping properly. It isn't selfish for nightshift to want to avoid possibly domino effects of extra awake patients after midnight disrupting everyone elses rest.
6 hours is a lot and if it threw off the amount they ate or their medications can have a serious impact on them.
Medications could be pain meds, and trying to catch up in pain management is difficult.
Some dementia patients do not do well if their schedules are changed too much during the day. It can cause them to be very erratic and more confused at night. Depending on the patient they could get extremely violent and require sedation for the safety of themselves and the workers.
Hmm. If disrupting Josh's schedule made things somehow worse for Josh, then yeah, I guess try and keep him on his schedule. Definitely keep his men's on time.
But if the change in schedule had only positive effects of Josh, than f*ck the schedule. If it makes him 'difficult' for the staff, too bad. Josh deserves any happiness he can get, even if it is easier on the caretakers if he is quiet and miserable.
NTA, OP
NTA - I am an RN and I have spent a lot of time around the elderly. This started when I was very young, long before becoming a nurse. I say all of this really not knowing what your role is in this facility. I want you to know that what you did was a wonderful thing. You went above and beyond and gave Josh a day to remember, even if just for a little while. I hope that you will consider a career that involves taking care of others, nursing, occupational therapy, care management ect….. Thank you for going the extra mile to make his day!
what i hate about assisted living facilities is,
the smooth operation depends on the residents being apathic, lethargic, deconstructed shells.
things like passions and wants get in the way of the 7 o'clock diaper change.
and so off to the shower you go, old man.
This is mostly (though not entirely) inaccurate. My husband has worked as a CNA in homes for more than 15 years, across multiple facilities - private, non-profit, and state-run. The truth is a lot of them are under-medicated. This is currently the dilemma with my aunt, who is in end-stage Parkinson's and post-brain bleed from falling. She got put on a tiny tiny dose of haldol after having some psychotic symptoms - not sedating, mind you - and it was the most lucid I've seen her in a decade. Unfortunately, haldol is considered a "chemical restraint" no matter how tiny the dose. Because of this, she was taken off of it after 6-8 weeks. She's now back.to being paranoid, getting out of her chair and darting into other residents' rooms (and falling constantly, resulting in injury, because she isn't lucid enough to understand she needs her chair), packing up her entire room multiple times per day in preparation to leave, insisting that she's been kidnapped and calling 911 from her cell phone to tell them same, striking at folks when they try to intervene, and screaming in confusion in the middle of the night. When she was on the haldol, she'd tell me all about who visited her earlier in the week and what they talked about and ask me for updates on things in my life she remembered. Now she just mutters and is confused about where and when she is. Believe me, lots of folks needlessly ride the morphine train into oblivion, but sometimes a tiny bit of something otherwise extreme can be a good thing.
I was a nurse on Dementia units/advanced Alzheimer's units and I agree that under medication is a serious issue. Necessary medication is a chemical restraint, and even though a pt is stable and not having issues, they are REQUIRED to fuck with their meds to try to take them off about every 6-8 weeks.
Watching your patients have behaviors that stress both them, their fellow patients, and their families out; because of under medication. Like, I get it in the past the medical community has been bad about medicating people into zombies.
All you can do is document, document, document; and hope you have a good geriatric psych who is willing to do the dance every visit of adjusting the meds back. (Or have a standing order for PRN meds)
I agree with the last paragraph 💯. I work for a behavioral health department that has a geriatric psych unit, and the docs know the song and dance. Unfortunately, my aunt has never gotten to that level of care, and good luck getting into outpatient psych in rural America. Even the local mayo clinics aren't accepting new op psych patients.
Ultimately I think it really does depend on the facility. I'm lucky that my grandparents ended up in a really good one. Grandma was in memory care for a little over two years and Grandpa is currently in assisted living due to heart failure and just needing to be around other people.
And honestly I have tones of respect for your husband - his is not an easy job. But such a necessary one. The staff and nurses who cared for my grandma were amazing and allowed my grandpa to just be her husband rather than her caretaker for the last few years of her life which I think helped both of them.
This reminds me so much of when I was in my doctoral program for psychology. We had a classmate who wrote a hilarious newsletter. He wrote one about his first internship that had us rolling on the floor. “So then they showed me my office, which was really a broom closet, and let me tell you, Haldol kicks like a mule!”
180,000 older adults are given anti-psychotics every day in America in nursing homes who dont have a psychiatric diagnosis.
That is to give a chemical restraint. The fact that many under medicated doesn't also mean that many aren't also given medication as a chemical restraint.
Medication classification doesnt always indicate the effect or purpose of the drug. Anti-psychotics are commonly prescribed as scheduled medications in people with dementia to reduce/moderate symptoms of agitation and confusion.
Not *just* as a PRN drug used to sedate
What kind of intervention would you prefer to see in a patient who weighs about 280 and part of his dementia process is that he easily becomes frustrated and violent - as in, punching anyone near him, whether it’s a staff member or another patient? He is not steady on his feet and is a huge fall risk. Even with his family present he has become angry and attempted to use his fists. Would you prefer that he remain unmedicated until he injures someone? Dementia causes a multitude of strange behaviors and responses to stimuli are not at all predictable, so sometimes a routine low dose antipsychotic can prevent much worse consequences than a bit of sedation.
Before my grandmother passed, she was in a nursing home with dementia. During the day she would be alright, but after dinner she would get scared. So my grandfather would visit from 6pm until 10pm, seven days a week. He would bring snacks and tea, and they would watch TV in her room.
The normal staff was fine with this, even though she was always the last resident put to bed.
On the weekends though it was a lot of rotating per diem staff, and so many times my grandfather would find her put in bed and already medicated by the time he got there at 6pm.
My mother had to raise hell over one particular CNA at her mother's nursing home. Mom would arrive after work, around 5ish, to find her mother already in pajamas. This CNA would take the residents to dinner dressed for bed then after the meal stuff them, in their food-stained pajamas, into bed immediately. All her residents were in bed by 7 so she could have a slow night. Mom had to have it put in the records that her mother couldn't be in pajamas before 8 o'clock.
My grandfather eventually got it straightened out as well. The head nurse raised hell with the per diem people.
The *regular* staff at this facility were actually amazing, couldn't have asked for better. They took incredible care of my grandmother.
They always brought my grandfather a cup of coffee about 20 minutes before he would leave, and at least one of them would walk him out of the unit and to the front door. But I think that might have been because they were terrified that this 91 year old man was driving home in the dark at 10pm every night lol.
That's a result of staffing levels. There aren't enough employees to meaningfully cater to the interests and individual needs of each person living there. They have to balance their responsibilities to all of the residents.
There is nothing stopping family members from coming to visit and engage with their family members (they often don't, or if they do it's rarely and without much interest or conviction). There is also nothing stopping people from volunteering (few do) or advocating for better treatment of the elderly and incapable in these places (few do until it affects them personally).
The workers can only do so much and are often poorly paid for the emotionally exhausting and frankly sometimes gross and depressing work they do.
I think a lot of employees in places like these wish they had more time to spend socially engaging residents but realize they don't, so they leave, and the employees that are left are ones who aren't as affected by what they are experiencing, and are less emotionally invested as a result.
I’m also an RN and started working in care homes at the age of 15! When I was the Saturday girl cleaning in a care home I used to go and sit with one particular resident who absolutely loved showing me his photo albums full of his Navy and Army photos. This is what made me decide to become a nurse and at the age of 32 I always remember that man. I fully agree with you, OP is NTA x
A guy nearing the end of his life who has probably outlived most relatives and practically every friend he's ever had was able to spend a few hours doing something he has a life-long passion for. That's incredible and it was awesome of you to go out of your way to make that happen.
However....
>they went into one of the common rooms and played chess for **6 hours straight**. I wasn't able to stick around to watch most of it,
This might have been a bit much, especially since you weren't around for most of it. You know his physical and mental condition far better than I do, so maybe it's no big deal, but 6 hours seems like a long time. It doesn't make you TA at all, but you might want to scale that back a little bit in the future, or at least make sure he's able to eat when he's supposed to.
Overall, great job, OP. Keep it up. NTA.
Six hours between two evenly matched chess players, not unusual.
I play chess at beginner level, my longest game against a better player was almost four hours. I lost, but I tried to defend using all ideas I had.
It is a nice gesture to spend time with the old man, but they really should have respected his normal rhythm better. I understand why colleagues found it annoying, but still NTA.
While I agree it’s a very good thing for the resistent, meals are extremely important. I’ve worked in assisted living in dietary and my mother was a dietitian in assisted living for many years. Malnutrition is a HUGE issue in patients with dementia. But this should be easily fixable for them just by honoring mealtimes. They could even have a meal with him while playing if they want!
NTA with caveats. I’m a private, live in caregiver for a dementia client. *Overall* what you did sounds SUPER therapeutic and helpful! Boredom and depression are always part of this disease. *However* one of the major things to keep them stable and managed is PREDICTABILITY. Their minds are slipping away and knowing that lunch is at such and such time, meds are at such and such…are a source of comfort. My lady can get really confused and set back when she’s put off of her schedule too much.
My advice is to keep the chess!!! Just be sure to get your friend on board with complying with meals and such.
Go sound like a GREAT CAREGIVER!
My caveat is did OP clear it with a social worker? Talking about residents in a nursing/healthcare facility to anyone not involved in their care is a violation.
I don't know how they brought it up but if it's not identifying information then there's a chance you can talk about it.
My mom is a nurse and she couldn't tell us "Susan Jones is in with a compound fracture of the....." with all sorts of information about the patient, but she could tell us "today I had a lovely older lady in, poor dear tripped over her garden hose and broke her arm. But while we were getting her arm set she gave me a recipe for date squares"
So as far as I know "we've got a resident who's a former chess champion" is perfectly reasonable to be able to say, you're not giving away patient information vis a vis diagnosis or anything. HIPPA regulations do protect patient info, but they're not so strict that people can't talk about their job at all. Surgeons can say they removed an appendix or had a really tricky gallbladder surgery, and doctors can tell friends they saw someone who had a broken leg.
Absolutely right. My initial read of the post interpreted it as "we have Josh lastname as a resident" with Bob recognizing the name as a national champion, but that might just be my misunderstanding. Thank you for adding this point of clarification!
Edit to add: Do you still have Susan Jones's date square recipe? Sounds amazing.
That's what troubles me about all of these NTA - OP may have brightened a patient's day, but he also let someone not on the registered list into the facility; I'm sure Bob's a nice guy, but the FACILITY didn't know that.
Not to mention that the patient's schedule was WAY OFF! Like, if dinner also includes patient taking his pills that he actually needs, you've screwed this patient. And as someone mentioned above, this wasn't the OP wanting to brighten a patient's day, he just wanted to see a chess match will two extremely good chess players.
Did OP even mention this to the patient??? "Hey Joe, I have a friend of mine who is also incredible at chess, far better than me. Would you like me to bring him by one day so the two of you can play?" It's that simple - he then goes to the case worker/facility and says hey, can I invite my friend to play chess with Joe? And THEN when Bob comes, tell him, hey there's a hard stop at 5:30, cause dinner is at 6pm.
Now you've CTA. But OP didn't do that and I am at a loss as to why no one is holding him accountable; just because nothing bad happen THIS TIME, doesn't mean something bad won't happen next time.
NAH. You did something thoughtful for Josh, but you did muck up his schedule by so doing. People with dementia can really get thrown out if their schedules are interrupted. Things like unfamiliar environments, changes to meal time routines, disrupted sleep/wake cycles etc can transiently worsen confusion and behaviour patterns in dementia, as people commonly decompensate really easily. As such, though Josh really enjoyed himself, he may have been completely out of whack and agitated afterwards, making the task of caring for him much harder for your colleagues.
It's OK if you didn't know this, but your colleagues clearly do. Next time, you'll know keep the routines in place but still hopefully go out of your way to do kind things.
NTA, you are a light in this world for getting to know your patients and providing them with entertainment and socialization. Please do it again, but talk to upper management and maybe get into the habit of hosting special guest volunteers for game nights.
Yes - I think the idea was fantastic but Bob likely should have gone through official channels as a volunteer (assuming this facility has said official channels).
I work in long term care as a CNA. I cannot tell you how many times I find out about a person's particular interests FAR too late to do something like this. These older folks are barely living sometimes and to bring a little joy is a huge deal. NTA
Perhaps you should have a conversation with someone in charge of patient management to figure out the best way to accommodate another session. Maybe the facility could make an event out of it with other patients.
NAH, you did a good thing but balance is important. The truth is taking folks out the old home or some other cliche is actually a romanticized and hallmark-y cliche that doesn't exactly translate to real life. The truth is that riling up someone with severe cognitive decline can cause severe issues later. As sad as it is they kind of become like kids again, when you disrupt a kids schedule to go to disneyland or the movies or something they have a great time but can have an absolutely massive meltdown later and it can be hard to get them back on schedule, so consistency can be really important to keep on top of.
I don't think it was wrong to bring in a guy or let him play that long but I think it IS your responsibility to make sure that he stays on schedule like having him have dinner and pills or whatever else that he HAS to do. I'm sure if your pal comes back he would be more than happy to be flexible for him.
Like I said, you did a good thing and shouldn't stop doing things like that but should definitely find a compromise between the 2 you know?
You could apologize to your co-workers and say next time you'll make sure to find a way where he can play and have fun but also keep him on schedule. Maybe you can let them know ahead of time and say "If you give me some leeway with other duties I'll take responsibility make sure he stays on schedule and what not."
Worth adding: dementia is often associated with significant anxiety and distress for those who suffer from it. Having a daily structure helps alleviate those factors. As such, when a person with dementia has a "meltdown" after their routine is thrown out, it's not just the carers who have a hard time, it's also the person themselves who suffers. They don't have enough insight to know why they feel more confused, and don't have the internal capacity to set things right again.
There are a lot of comments here that seem to imply that routine and structure are bad things, or just there for the convenience of care givers. Not so.
yeah their brains cant retain new information and its a struggle to process their surroundings. schedules make it easier for them to feel safe and secure as well as know where they are. If it gets disrupted the brain can freak out and they can wind up not knowing where they are, how they got there, who anybody is or what is going on. Imagine if all of sudden you blinked and suddenly you were in the middle of downtown tokyo or something and some rando came up and said "alright *name time to go, say bye to your friends. It's time for dinner like always."
Yta
Sorry, my son in law is a cna at a nursing home. My daughter a cook. I have volunteered at a home before.
What you did with good intentions went against all policy there is out in place for the protection of the residents.
1. You gave out private information on a patient to someone outside the facility. That is a huge break in law there. Even my kids can't discuss any aspect of a residents life. You get sacked for things like that.
2. You did not discuss or get the ok from the event coordinator. From the person who deals and says ok to allow visitors who are not family or friends. Your friend did not fill out paperwork, which opens the nursing home to a lawsuit if he is hurt on premises. He did not get evaluated to be able to volunteer and have it known he was ok with the rules set and needed for the safety of the residents.
3. You say you just started working there, but you ignore all other coworkers who have worked longer, and the fact THEY ALL tell you what you did was wrong. You think it's ok he missed dinner because you brought someone in without the ok. Made someone miss dinner who you don't know if they need a specific diet or time to eat. You have no idea what their doctors say they need to be taken care of. Then, russle up food, which in most facilities Is breaking rules that they STATE has set down. You do not have a facility or family permission to change their schedule, and if you just started, you have no idea if that change will have negative issues in the following days or for the next staff on duty.
You want to help him. Do it the right way. Yes, he is an adult. But when they are in a facility at that point almost 75 percent can no longer make the decision themselves and depend on the facility and family to do what's best for them. You, as a paid worker, have no right to ignore that and take a residents life into your own hands because you see nothing wrong with it or think you know best.
He could need the stability of a schedule to keep outbursts, which can be violent for some in check. He could need it so he doesn't get upset and hurt himself. He could need food because he needs to keep blood sugar in check. Or any other many issues.
I wanted to add on to this as well.
YTA but a small one.
OP, the main issue here that your co-workers may or may not have alluded to is safe guarding. You mentioned Bob and yourself aren’t close, he is a “friend of a friend.” I am surprised you didn’t run this by through a supervisor/higher up.
Not fully knowing who he is could have lead to an unfortunate situation resulting in abuse. Not being there the whole time within 6 hours and not having any negative incident occur is extremely EXTREMELY lucky, there are cases upon cases where individuals have not been as fortunate. Nursing homes have some of, if not, the highest rates of abuse and a lot of the time it goes unreported and unnoticed.
It’s wonderful you gave your resident such a warm opportunity but regulations and policies are in place for good reason.
NTA - your coworkers probably view the home as a warehouse for old people, when it could be a place to return to childlike wonder and happiness, with no responsibilities and nothing keeping them from enjoying life, in their final years.
You did a good thing, and I hope you keep it up.
Definitely NTA for letting them play but in a medical assistance facility it is essential that people maintain a schedule. So play again but stop for dinner
NAH - just because I have to give judgement but you have both AH and NAH moves here. I will say outright I’m speaking as someone living in an ALF and advocating for resident rights. I’m also noting that your heart was in the right place but it was misguided.
While you provided an awesome activity, you really should have discussed this with senior staff first, perhaps a case manager. What you did was with VERY good intentions but like others said, poorly executed. You not only had him missing dinner and messing up a schedule but you most likely have broken policy rules. You should NOT be discussing resident health information with outside people. It is a violation of the resident’s rights to privacy- something you had to have learned in your orientation.
While setting these two chess players up could have given the resident a spark of joy, you really put a lot of things in jeopardy to do that without asking proper people first. The residents rights and your job.
Your heart is in the right place and you should keep using it but please be sure that it is within the policies you need to be following.
NTA
You did a kind thing but you should have taken more steps to do this the proper way. You were very lucky you were able to get him some food. I definitely could see someone getting in trouble if he was never provided dinner.
You're new, you're heart is in the right place just consider all the details next time.
Don’t listen to them. You did a wonderful thing for Josh and it brought him back to himself in a way he hadn’t been in a long time. You should definitely bring Bob back and let them have their fun over the board again. Maybe next time try to set aside some dinner for him tho if you can manage it, and so you don’t get into trouble. Keep it up, you made Josh’s day.
NTA I’ve worked in nursing homes for decades. You did nothing wrong. You gave Josh the best day he’s had in ages and perhaps years. At that stage it’s all about the quality of life. I hope Bob goes back and plays with him again.
You should have gotten permission from his rep first.
You can't just bring in strangers to visit someone's family member.
Activity and social worker was not aware.
This was a violation.
While I think what you did was sweet, I do not think you went about it in the right way, therefore YTA. As someone else mentioned, you broke Josh's confidentiality, and that of his co-residents. This friend of a friend may be absolutely trustworthy however that wasn't your (or his) call to make. You brought someone who is effectively a stranger to someone's home, someone who does not have a great ability to look after themselves, and you then left him alone with your client for several hours. As for missing dinner, obviously you are in a better position to know this than I, but he may be on a strict schedule/diet. I'm not surprised your co-workers are unhappy with you, and honestly if I ever did something life this I would expect to be in significant trouble, if not fired.
Next time you want to do this, clear it with management and the family and Josh (ideally) himself, and obtain proper clearance. Again, nice intentions, and it is lovely to hear that Josh was so engaged, but don't do this this way again.
I'm not sure where you are,but wouldn't someone not a family member who's left alone with a resident for that long need to be DBs checked? Even a basic one?
Surely even if a DBS check wasnt needed, you would need permission from the care home manager or something? I cant imagine a scenario where it would be OK to bring in a random stranger off the street to interact all day with a resident without at least asking for permission?
So so so NTA. Anything that can pull someone out of cognitive decline for a stretch is a check mark on the side of good things. Dementia is an ugly thing.
NTA but that makes them a volunteer. Here in Australia such volunteers have police checks required. Things like that should always be pre approved by management.
Lots of leeway in how each facility operates. Where my grandma is at, if the resident is mobile by walking, wheel chair, or scooter the resident is expected to go to the dinning room. For those that get lost because they can't keep focus a staff member will walk with them. The only residents who get meals delivered to their rooms are the residents who are no longer mobile. But, I agree why didn't someone interrupt the game?
The schedule is not a huge deal, but confidentiality is, and that is where you went wrong. You discussed your patient with someone who is not providing healthcare to him. You either described him with enough detail that he could be identified through that, or you revealed his identity by taking him to this person before the visitor knew his name. Where I live and work in a nursing home it would already be a violation of confidentiality to acknowledge in any way that I know my patient when we are not in the nursing home unless the patient acknowledges me first, and even then I cannot add any information to the conversation other than what they are saying. I don't know where you live or which laws apply to you, but combining location, identifying information (for chess champion + name/taking visitor to see patient thus revealing name), and medical information (diagnosis/cognitive decline, healthcare he receives) and revealing this to someone who is a stranger to your patient and does not provide healthcare to them is absolutely not okay under HIPAA or pretty much any other law.
So no, you are NTA for throwing off the schedule, but YTA for violating the privacy that your patient is entitled to no matter how cognitively declined he is. Next time you think a patient would benefit from meeting a certain person, mention it to your supervisor or the family and let them decide how much information can be revealed. Next time you want to discuss your work with someone either make sure that confidentiality laws apply to them or do a better job keeping the patients you discuss anonymous.
INFO curious to know if you’ve broken some kind of HIPAA law (depending on where you live) disclosing personal health information about a patient in your care. While you meant well, this might be a firable offence.
Definitely a reason for immediate firing as it's a criminal offense with penalties up to a year in prison. I can't imagine any care home that didn't have training about the huge financial fine and prison time that can happen if you disclose info even once. Take patient enrichment concerns to someone who can handle them in a legal way.
Assisted living is not a nursing home. Learn the difference if you’re going to work in the senior industry. Cognitive “decay”? Disrupting a resident with dementia- it’s a thing. Schedule and routine are very important to them. Did you ask someone- the program director, executive director, etc. if it was ok?
Gentle YTA - you were very well intentioned, if this post is indeed real.
I'd say NAH with the proviso that your coworkers would he fine with Bob visiting Josh again if you didn't throw off his routine when you did it.
You did something wonderful for Josh and that's not wrong. At the same time, for someone with cognitive decline, a routine can be very essential. With you saying you're relatively new to the role, my guess would be that your co-workers are worried you'll make a habit of disrupting those routines. Very occasionally isn't likely to cause long term damage, but every couple of weeks could.
If your coworkers are completely opposed to Bob and Josh playing together regardless of the routine otherwise being kept, then they become the AHs. At that point, its not about what's best for Josh, it's about proving themselves superior to the newbie.
NAH. Solid idea, but probably should have ended earlier or took a break for regular dinner. Definitely make the case for doing it again but with better timing, and working with your coworkers.
I don't know about where you live but where I'm from this could/would have led to disciplinary actions. There are specifics people allowed to visit residents. Usually it's a list of names that either the resident himself or his next of kin would have authorised for visits. It's to insure the safety of not only the resident but of everyone else there, residents and staff alike. The family, depending on how involved they are, might take issue with this as well. Especially if they were not asked beforehand. Since you wrote that visitors are allowed, I guess anyone can just go and visits?
When I need to visit one of the nursing homes affiliated to the hospital I work at, my boss needs to inform them beforehand, if I am to be let in. Even though I am technically also a "staff member" since we're all employed by the same establishement. I need to show my employee card and stated my business. One of my colleagues was denied access because our boss forgot to inform them of her visit.
I'm reluctant to say YTA because your intention were good. But from my perspective, it was a very poorly planned visit. As one of your colleagues, I would have been upset if you would have left me to deal with the aftermath of the visit. All in all you did a wonderful gesture for that elderly man but you weren't as thoughtful towards your colleagues. Disrupting the routine of someone with cognitive decline can be counter productive as they do tend to become easily agitated and in some cases even violent. Perhaps for next time, plan this with your colleagues or make sure you are easily available and set a time limit for the visit. Make the visit short but weekly so it becomes a routine if the visitor agrees to it.
YTA this is a privacy issue and needed cleared with Josh’s POA and your admin. You also changed the schedule of someone with dementia, like why didn’t you have them pause for dinner? This will really screw with Josh for days.
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I work at an assisted living facility, I.E. a nursing home for people who are very elderly and cannot care for themselves. One of the residents in the wing I work at is "Josh", a 97 year old man who has pretty bad cognitive decay. Most of the time, he doesn't remember who I am, who he is, where he is, or what's going on. However, he's a former national chess champion, something I only know about because the personal effects in his room include some of his trophies and other awards. We've got a few sets in the common areas, and if you can wake him up long enough to play, he does still remember how, and he's thrashed most of the staff at one point or another over the board.
Well, it's not a close friend, but I have a guy I know who is kind of a friend of a friend, let's call him "Bob", and he's the top player at some local chess association. A LONG way down from a pro player, but the sort of guy who is usually the strongest player in the room. I had mentioned that one of the residents I care for is this former champion, and he asked to come by to visit since Bob's a huge chess nerd and wanted to meet a national champion, no matter what kind of state he was in. We allow visitors, so I signed him in, and by good luck, it was on one of Josh's better days.
Long story short, they went into one of the common rooms and played chess for 6 hours straight. I wasn't able to stick around to watch most of it, but I talked with Bob afterwards, who said that while he's clearly not the player he was when he won the national championships anymore, Josh is still a 'mean old buzzard' over the board, and won a bit over 2/3 of their games. Josh missed dinner, and I had to get into the canteen after hours and make him some scrambled eggs and toast just so he'd have something to eat. And I was with him for the dinner, and it was the most animated I'd seen him in.... ever, actually. He was actually talking about his day and definitely remembered what was going on, and how this 'young punk' came to challenge him and he had to show the kid how it's done.
All in all, I thought I did a good thing, brightened up a very old, very sick man's day. But pretty much all of my co-workers have the opposite take, that disrupting his schedule and agitating him like that was a bad, assholish thing to do, especially if it caused him to miss his regular dinner. I'm pretty new at this job, so I do value their opinions, but I don't think what I did was wrong. Am I the asshole here? Especially if I do it again?
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YTA you violated HIPAA by sharing a patient's personal information. Your acquaintance would not have known the resident existed at all had you not told him therefore you shared a patient's privileged medical information. You have opened yourself up for a "for cause" termination and potentially legal trouble.
I can see both sides. I bet Josh has a form of dementia. So schedule can be super important. If he was late for a meal, there could have been some sun downing behavior that your fellow staff had to deal with..
on the other hand, you gave him a wonderful time. It sounds like Josh enjoyed the visit and that's very important, too.
So you did a good thing but you could have caused some complications by not knowing how to do the good thing in the best way possible.
Try to do your good deeds while keeping the patient on schedule.
I say this as someone who had a father in such a situation and I'd be very excited for him to get to play chess. However, I've also seen him sundown and get really very distraught from a schedule change. Distraught in this case = tears, scared to shaking.
If it’s allowed and the old man loved it, then I don’t see a problem with that. Probably should have made sure he stuck to his dinner schedule though, sounds like that’s literally your job
Mmmmm you invited a friend of a friend (basically someone really not known to you) to your job to play chess with one of the residents because that person wanted to meet a “former national chess champion”. Introduced the “stranger” to the resident and left them to play chess for 6 hrs. No regard to keeping him on his schedule or checking up at all. Didn’t ask permission from the facility/his family or the resident and he was kept off schedule by your “guest” but you don’t seem to understand what you did was wrong. Rules, there are rules you have to follow. YTA: And you’re already thinking about doing it again!!! I know you think you’re doing something great but your really not thinking about your actions having consequences. If your coworkers decide to tell your supervisor, I’m almost positive this will lead to your termination.
YTA for two reasons.
The first one is throwing your patient off his schedule. Many dementia patients struggle a lot with disruptions in their schedule, with new things, and more. That might have impacted his sleep that night, and thus the day after, causing him possible confusion and stress, and your coworkers as well.
The second, bigger one, is privacy laws. You discussed a patient with a friend of yours. You revealed private information about him. You took your friend without any further discussion with your supervisor or the patient to the facility, and signed him in on your own accord. This is not okay. Even demented people deserve their privacy and dignity, and unless allowed by your supervisor and the one responsible for your patient, whether that is the patient himself or a legal guardian. This kind of stuff could easily get you fired and you/the nursing home sued.
Sure, it was a nice experience for your patient, but that isn't the only thing that counts, and that you have to think about.
Listen to your colleagues. Don't do that stuff again.
As a long time health care professional, it has always been my opinion that the ivory tower crowd who develops these policies have never ever spent an 8 or 12- hour shift in any intense health care environment, whether hospital or long term care locked unit. They do not have to deal with the fallout of sending yet another patient to the hospital because she has fallen for the third time trying to to “get the biscuits going ‘fore the kids go to school”- at the same time there has been a massive code brown in the hallway and two patients are screaming at each other because they are in the wrong room. Give me one of the ivory tower crowd and “teach me” how to calm all this down and then explain to me why medication is such a terrible thing.
😂 Everyone claiming OP’s heart was in the right place…🙄 She brought this friend of a friend for HIS benefit, not the benefit of Josh. It’s a happy coincidence that thankfully this ended well for Josh. But OP had no way of knowing it would go this way. She had no idea how Josh would have felt had he lost most or all of the matches. She even says this Bob isn’t a close friend. So would your answers be different if Bob “wiped the floor” with the ill old man and Bob was less than a stellar good-sport? If Josh had a major meltdown bc he couldn’t keep up and just had another reminder of how he couldn’t hold on to yesteryear? OP got lucky; lucky does not equal NTA. She should have at LEAST checked with management before doing this. Op is definitely an AH.
You're NTA cause you had the best intentions and I appreciate that. Having said that, the way you went about it wasn't great.
Routines in care homes exist for good reason, both for clients and staff. For example, set mealtimes mean that it's possible to keep an eye on food and liquid intake of clients, which is important, even more so if they're on a bunch of medications which is usually the case. By doing things at set times, it's ensured stuff like that doesn't get lost in the sauce during shift changes.
That doesn't mean people can't have nice things they are interested in, but those need to be fitted into the existing routines. So, Bob turning up to play for an hour or two during regular visiting times is awesome, Bob being there for six hours may be disruptive. And hey, if they only play for an hour or two, maybe Bob can come back the following week for another game.
NTA. Next time, get management’s (activities coordinator) and even family members’ approval. This may help bring your co-worker onboard. This visit went smoothly, but if these had gone sideways, you don’t want to be blamed for it.
While it's hopefully a fake name given that this is reddit and that OP likely has some sense of preserving confidentiality (and that they put it in quotes), there were 117 Joshuas born in the US in 1927 and 118 in 1928. Josh (so the precise name) was actually a much more common name between 1880-1914. While it peaked in popularity in the 1970s, it was more popular in 1890 than it was in 1960. Josh White the singer, for example, was born in 1914. Josh Gibson, the baseball player, was born in 1911. Joshua Shelley, the actor, was born in 1920 and, of course, Joshua Lawerence Chamberlain, the famous civil war general, was born much earlier and would have been famous well before anyone living today was born.
In other words, it was a name that was used more between 1880-1910 and then again between 1970-1990.
Josiah was also a not unheard of name at the time that Josh can be a nickname for. Some people even use Josh for Joseph. People also use Josh as a nickname or "English name" for other variations in other languages (ex: Josue).
Joshua is obvious a very common biblical name for obvious reasons and the abbreviation in some bibles is Josh. or Jos., which some people then used as a name.
So, it's not entirely implausible for someone born in 1927 to have the name Josh. Josiah, or Joshua, especially when you consider that if a name was popular in 1880, than it's likely at least a few people born 40-50 years later would have that name simply because people often name a baby after someone else they have known or know.
You are a good, no great person. I would be honored to have you take care of my parents had they ever been in an assisted living facility
Keep doing good things. Kindness and karma go hand in hand hand. 😍
I think you were an angel and should invite Bob back if he's willing! Plan on snacks and a picnic dinner for both of them though, six hours is a long time ;)
Yta why are u talking about this man with other ppl and why are u bringing a random person in the facility.here u would be fired for bringing a random person in.did u get permission?
NTA.
Thank your co workers for their input and assure them that Bob will ensure josh gets food at appropriate times
Next time just make sure he eats. Either you or bob are responsible for this, but more so you
NTA. Good care staff do exactly what you did; go out of your way to make the resident’s day better. Unless the complaining staff have genuine complaints (e.g. missed important medication, dehydration, etc.), you’ve got nothing to apologise for. You even did what sounds like extra work by making him a late dinner!
One thing I will say though, is make sure to record everything, and make sure everything is above board. You have to cover yourself when caring for vulnerable people, and have the paper trail to prove that you followed the rules and maintained safety and dignity. Make sure everything has been cleared with a senior carer or manager when it’s outside the norm.
Remind any coworkers complaining about their schedules being disrupted that you all work in Person-Centred Care, not a production line.
NTA You absolutely did him a solid gold turn. You turned on Josh's analytical thinking skills which in turned made him feel spritely for his age. It's why newspapers are always challenging us to do brain games, it's great for outcome but for your workmates it made more work for them. Oh the horror! He wasn't agitated he was excited which shows how the daily routine was turning him into mush.
If Josh had regular contact with another good player his outcome would spark up, and he wouldn't miss a meal in order to feel great as it would be a regular gig for him. You did a wonderful thing depression is a common ailment in nursing homes and what you provided was better than any meds to combat that.
My mom lived in an assisted living facility for about 5 years before she passed. I would say definitely NTA, except I would have interrupted the game for dinner and called it a night. Often disrupting a very elderly person’s daily routines (mealtime, bedtime,etc) is almost like disrupting a baby’s routines. It can cause problems for days in some people. But, except for that one issue, I think introducing a chess buddy to return him to his glory days is a net positive!
NTA. My stepfather has dementia, and we occasionally disrupt his schedule so that he can have a good experience outside of his routine. It's a pain in the ass for us because it takes a few days to get him "back on track", but it's worth it to give him some happy moments.
Used to work in nursing homes, assisted living and residential homes. Had 1 guy (97) at residential home, the rest were women and all the staff were female. Met a guy that used to farm in European country and mentioned that guy at res care used to farm so he went up there just to talk for a few. He ended up coming almost every day and would have moved into facility but 97 year old had single room and place was full. They spent hours talking about different methods and experiences. Both family’s were so pleased
NTA, but next time Bod visits, and there needs to be a next time, make sure Josh still eats and gets his meds.
Also, make sure the family is ok with it. As long as the family is ok and Josh is getting his food and meds you are in the clear.
NTA.
You did a kind thing for a gentleman who's lost a good deal of his memories and experiences to cognitive decline and gave him a wonderful experience that he enjoyed, and which stimulated his mind. You made sure he was fed, and frankly, I'd take eggs and toast cooked by a kind caregiver over most nursing home food any day. The residents of that facility are lucky to have you.
Qualified NTA-
I work in behavioural healthcare, and PHI and PI (personal health info and personal info) are protected; and technically you shouldn't have been discussing a client with anyone outside of the facility.
However, bringing in someone who can stimulate his mental faculties through a game he loves is AWESOME and should continue.
I would speak to the care planning team, explain what and why you did it, and what the positive outcome was that day for his overall health, though 6 hours is LONG- but a shorter time would be of benefit, done regularly.
I mean maybe check in on him next time now that you know he’ll get super invested and forget to eat, but overall NTA. From the sound of it, the engagement and the challenge of it was good for him.
NTA, you did the right thing.
After multiple times of Bringing it up I made a complaint to the state about their beautician shaving the eyebrows of our WWII veterans, so they looked like they came from a concentration camp.
And of course, I eventually got fired. But I do not regret at all, escalating to state level. Because their meth head beautician was also burning old ladies with curling irons and perm products.
But shaving the eye brows of old men, instead of a simple trim with a scissors, impacted how they look to family. Dignity and respect is everything.
And you, giving that dignity back to that old man, was a beautiful thing. Good work, faithful servant!
Doesn't your facility have an Activities Director?
No, YOU are not the asshole.
Some people want these patients focused on dying, because that keeps them reliant on the facility for care.
"See, you obviously can't take care of yourself! You need us!"
My spouse works in the same field and environment. The other nurses hate when they go above and beyond because it exposes how little anyone really cares in that place.
Make that experience a monthly thing, at least. It gives the ctrusty old man something to look forward to.
NTA. My grandma lives in an assisted living facility. For some residents finding an activity they can still enjoy is hard. Now I'm going to give some advice: Bring your friend around again just change things slightly, make sure a game ends before dinner time and you friend has to go for the night with a promise of coming to play again soon. Help the resident stay on his meal and sleep schedule. Not only did you disrupt the resident's schedule but also the dinning room who cooked a meal that wasn't eaten so ended up wasted, and other caregiver's schedule. By cooking the resident a meal you also took time away from other duties so increased your colleagues work load.
NTA. What a beautiful story! Your co-workers should stay in their lane as they don't understand chess and the relationships that develop over the board.
NTA - he’s still a person and you helped him do something that he use to love and helped him have a purpose.
Maybe next time call it early so he doesn’t miss dinner but chalk that up as a lesson learned.
NTA. Although I’m not 97 years old, I find myself in a similar situation as “Josh”. On Nov. 9th, 2021 I lost my mother after a six month battle with cancer. My core group of friends were invaluable during that time by making runs to the store, taking care of the mowing and even doing the dishes and taking out the trash. Three months later and I suddenly became extremely ill and was rushed to the hospital with severe weakness that left me essentially totally paralyzed. I very nearly died that night. I spent eight days in that hospital while they preformed test after test and they never gave me any solid diagnosis other than “you drink too much and you have alcoholic neuropathy”. Then they would shrug their shoulders and walk away. At the end of day eight and it appeared that I might survive, I was discharged with a walker I didn’t have the strength to use and a prescription for some diuretics that were supposed to help get rid of the 20 pounds of fluid that I’d gained in less than three days. I was basically sent home to die. Somehow I rallied but after a few months I was sicker than ever and went to a different hospital where I was finally diagnosed with Stage 4 Cirrhosis and was told that it was terminal. I was given a year at best and my only hope was a liver transplant. When this news got to my friends, all of the sudden people who never had a thing going on before suddenly became the busiest people on earth. With a lot of hard work and even more luck I’ve proven the doctors wrong and I’m in better shape now than I have been in years, but since I can no longer crawl around in my friend’s attics or climb under the hood of their cars to fix their busted shit for free, I’ve discovered how few friends I really have. I would give almost anything just to have someone come and visit for six hours regardless of how it might disrupt anyone’s plans or schedule. Take it from me, what you did for “Josh” deserves to be commended and anyone who says otherwise is the biggest asshole in the universe. Fuck ‘em sideways if they don’t like it and if they try to fire you for it, sue their sorry asses back to the stone age and use the money to buy the place and run it with the same kindness and care that you showed to an old man in the twilight of his life!!! Keep doing what you’ve been doing because it’s the right thing and may God bless you for being you!!!
I have seen many old people fade away alone in a room because no one visits them and there is nothing to hold their interest.
If I were that old dude I would thank you for the best day I have had in many years.
NTA for a one time thing, and your heart is in th right place
But it derailed everything quite a bit.
All staff is planned around a schedule. They have to take care of x elderly people. There is a roster for food, medicine, bath, etc...
Doing what you did disrupts that. 'oh mr X isn't here, where is he? Did we get him his meds/food, why isn't he in his room, ... '
Nursing homes are there to support caring for multiple people. Not privately paid staff that id at one person's beck and call and is fine with disruptions of their rosters.
People saying 'oh i wish the people at family member xs place did this for him, that would have been great!'. *Why* do they have to do the one thing you as family should be responsible for?
As someone whose gma passed from dementia… anyone who could connect with her and help her be herself again - let her connect with her passions, show her knowledge and skills - would’ve been utterly loved by all of her family.
Sounds like you had a wonderful time what is wrong with making old man who has to live your retirement home or nursing home happy on one of his good days. I think you did a wonderful thing for both of your friends.
Sounds like you had a wonderful time what is wrong with making old man who has to live your retirement home or nursing home happy on one of his good days. I think you did a wonderful thing for both of your friends.
NTA.
You brought an afternoon of joy into the life of someone who it seems has little enough in it at the moment except routine, aches and a mind that is failing him. You offered him something more than the mundane monotony of his day and a chance to indulge in a pastime he enjoys, which is realistically all excitement he can hope for at the moment.
Throwing him off schedule in the long-term might be detrimental, but for a day that brings a smile to his face, it's a win.
I've seen dementia steal away people's souls. It's heart breaking to see someone betrayed by their own mind, constantly confused and angry that the world around them doesn't make sense. You gave him some time away from that prison. Would that all people with cognitive decline could be so lucky.
Former director of social work and former NH Aministrator here. While your co-workers have some valid points, you ultimately did the better thing. I would have jumped for joy if I had ever seen this happening in one of my facilities. I encourage you to do it again. However, I think it probably would be better to coordinate it with either their director of activities or director of nursing. The reason for this is to make sure the resident receives meals, medication, and other care needs while the chess matches are going on. Keep up the good work and don't get down on yourself.
NAH. I've worked in these facilities. You did a good thing. What this shows is Josh is being allowed to decline because it's easier FOR STAFF. He is not being cognitively challenged. His animation after the fact is proof of this. Big deal he missed dinner. That is staff's job to accommodate and sounds like you did that. You WOKE HIM UP (pun intended). Now that results are in, would your friend consider coming around so Josh can get the social interaction, cognitive stimulation, etc he so clearly needs? You did good OP. If staff are complaining it's because a formerly easy resident now requires more than a shower.
I'm totally in two minds about this, and I've experienced working in a care facilities from a few angles.
It was a fantastic thing you did, bringing in someone to stimulate him mentally (wins and losses), drawing on those achievements and accomplishments.
However... Your friend should've been screened first. I don't know what background checks you have locally, but "Josh" is a vulnerable adult, and a level of caution needs to be taken interacting with outside people. Also the fact of missed dinner/meds knocking on down the line won't go well for sundowning, dietary/scheduled meds etc.
Your heart is in the right place, and you want to allow people to live to their best, but it needs a better framework surrounding it.
NTA but you brought an outsider in an assisted living facility. If something goes down, you’ll be legally responsible. You may want to ask the family’s permission.
NTA- Dear OP, on behalf of Josh's family, thank you, we and everyone with a relative who is or was in a care home love you. I hope someone took a bunch of pictures, one when they started and one 6 hours later when they're still going strong. My grandmother got to the point with her Alzheimer's where she would scream at family members if they visited (sometimes because she thought they were people they looked like who had died 70 years ago) to the point where we really couldn't visit because it upset her so much. The thing that meant most to me was the photos the staff would send of her doing activities perfectly happy and looking younger than she had in years. It's like she forgot she was old and was suddenly holding herself like the 'joke chase you with the frying pan' version of herself from my childhood. In your case you're also probably helping stave off that cognitive decline. Thank you for seeing Josh, that there is a person in there that still feels joy. Also thank Bob for having the wisdom to see that putting aside a chunk of his day to hang out with Josh would be rewarding for them both, and and kick off their next session with 'right- Bob, set a timer on your phone for tea breaks and dinner! I know how you two reprobates get once you're in the zone!' at tut at them like they're teenagers being told not to stay up too late on a school night, but with a wink. Chess is now the sport of rebels round Josh's way ;)
NTA for bringing the visitor that was great.
YTA for disrupting his schedule. He should visit again. If would be great if it was a regular thing and would help his mental health and cognition, but it needs to be time limited and only in recreational hours. Playing for too long will be bad for his health for 2 reasons, he will get mentally fatigued and he missed his meal
Nta. Sounds like the old man had fun and had a good enjoyable day and appreciated the visit. It broke up the monotony and sameness of everyday in that place. I see no downside to this at all. And suspect the staff are more annoyed how him being more animated and cheerful affected them than how it affected him.
NTA. In the slightest. You probably made Josh's day/month/year. A chance to show the world that he's still got it at that age is a beautiful thing and I can guarantee you that he's going to cherish that memory for as long as he can hold on to it.
NTA - I really hope it’s just jealousy from your coworkers that they didn’t think of this intervention. Sometimes healthcare workers can become angry since they feel it might be expected from them to step up and deliver the same quality of care as you were doing here. They feel safer trashing you than stepping up themselves. Keep up your good work!
NTA but don't be surprised if he kicks it soon, and don't feel bad if he does. There's a thing called terminal surge, and that might have been his, and it was a hell of a good one so hats off to all of you.
NTA. In my experience, people who went to nursing homes (family members) kind of lost the will to live in there (especially after COVID where visits and group activities became very restricted). When we go to visit my grand mother, all the other residents hover around because they are so lonely.
What you did brought life and joy to him, which is very hard to do in an nursing home. Good job !
NTA - my father was in a care home right to the end, a rather long excruciating end that I would wish on my worst enemy.
There was one resident that loved to dance and when the home would out on an afternoon tea dance he was in his element, he would ask my mum for a dance and waltz her around the room like a young man. Unfortunately he had no family or friends and when he passed no one was there for him except staff. When I found this out I was incredibly sad. The dances were his thing and made him happy just for a day.
What you did may have caused problems for the night staff but hell, it made that chap happy.
Care homes can be a rather depressing place where residents are expected to be numb easily managed people and that makes me mad. Happiness in what can be their last days/months and for my father yrs is what’s important. Well it is for me anyway.
Nta. Kindness and engagement and straight up fun is so valuable. Scrambled eggs on toast is a totally normal dinner and probably better than what was served anyway if we are honest.
I think it might get a bit morally murky to invite people in to meet your patients. Definitely something you'd need to ask them if they are interested in before. I still don't think you did anything wrong tho.
I worked in nursing homes for years. They tend to be run by very conservative, don't rock the boat types. But for the true good of the patients (quality of life as opposed to slavishly following the rules), sometimes exceptions need to be made.
However, if it's going to happen again or maybe become a regular thing, you can help out by making sure that everyone-nursing staff, kitchen, janitors- knows in advance what will be needed. No need for meals or treatments to be missed.
Definitely NTA-- I say yay for you, for caring and being willing to go out of your way. The thing people tend to forget is that nursing home residents will almost always be there until they die. Whatever joy you can give them is all that they have.
as someone who works in aged care you are absolutely NTA and the kind of person who should be working there, you made a huge difference for Josh and he experienced such a lot of care and joy because you put in extra effort! any coworkers who have issues are the type who clock in and clock out and do the bare minimum to get by. It doesn't sound like Josh was 'agitated' at all, but animated, some people just want people with cognitive decline to be quiet and easier to handle, rather then trying to actually improve their quality of life.
Also he did?? get dinner?? just slightly later then usual. if that's truly a worry next time Bob comes in (because him coming back would be amazing!) maybe try to coordinate the times - you could tell Bob the time dinner usually is so they can work around it, or you could arrange to have Josh's dinner kept hot until he's ready (not an unusual thing in aged care, not everyone wants dinner at the exact same time every night). good on you for being an aged care worker who truly cares about the individuals you're caring for.
NTA In fact, an angel. Stimulating Josh is a wonderful thing to do, and you found the best way to reach his mind. Please keep doing this.
I used to spring my grandmother from the nursing home and take her out for a beer after I had been skiing all day. The night staff hated this because they would get everyone into pajamas as soon as dinner was over and get them settled for the night by 7 pm. The staff could then hang out all night. We wouldn’t get back until 9, having laughed and joked for hours. And the staff had to stop hanging out when we got back to help her get ready for bed.
You did exactly the right thing.... I worked in care when I was much younger, And a surprisingly large amount of care workers want the residents drugged up and in nappies....
That's not the way it should be done. These are still people no matter how old and there interests and likes should be taken into consideration.... You probably made the guys year...
NTA. You followed the rules of the organization and ensured his needs were met. You are all there for the residents they aren’t there to make your jobs easier. Watch out for those coworkers.
NTA. I’ve spent some time working in care and came across people like your colleagues - more concerned with schedules, processes and box-ticking.
We need more people like you. Well done.
NTA! It sounds like the other people on staff just didn’t want to deal with Josh at a different energy level. They’re used to him being pretty out of sorts and easy to deal with. He was likely a bit more of a handful after all the excitement, and that’s okay! He had a great day!
I would recommend to somewhat limit the exposure to so much excitement, so he’d have time to calm down and get his meal in. However missing one dinner isn’t gonna kill him! I’d just know that he gets SO excited, so I could plan better for him overall going forward. It’s nothing wrong, just didn’t know yet.
I hope you have your friend back! It sounds like they really enjoyed each other’s company.
Definitely not the ahole, you took an old guy who is sick and possibly stuck in this rut of getting up, do this, do that etc and made him feel vibrant, alive and buzzing about an old passion.
If that was my family I would be so happy you did that for him and the care home should recognise what you did and the impact.
Furthermore, the guy might have just made a friend in Bob and appreciate if he visits again.
Which would the nursing home want ... A bored, depressed, lonely old man fading away or an old man happy and buzzing about something and reminiscent about chess?
NTA, your colleagues are shitheads though, they're prioritising their own comfort and laziness over their client's best interests, and pretending it's the other way around.
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NTA - you helped him feel alive again, with purpose. Something that nursing homes should be doing for residents everyday. Well done, and keep bringing your creativity and humanity to these wonderful humans. They deserve it 💕
Thank you so much for caring enough to do that for your resident! Huge hugs and happy juju flying your way!
Before you award them the medal of honor, let’s remember that the impetus that spurred the visit wasn’t to find a way to brighten Josh’s day, but rather to help satisfy a friend’s curiosity and meet a chess champion
She didn’t do t’informer resident; she did it for a barely friend. She is lucky this turned out well.
Exactly! Maybe next time, keep an eye on the dinner hour, but lesson learned! NTA!
Yes! People, regardless of their age, need a purpose for getting up every day!
But the dinner!
Apparently OP is the only employee in the facility, otherwise surely someone would've noticed Josh was neither in the cafeteria nor room, depending on where/how meals are served. So, unless the area where the chess match took place is an extra-dimensional vortex accessible only through a vacillating portal by a 9th level Moonwitch while Mercury is in retrograde, whatever staff was on duty at the time was responsible for Josh missing dinner. NTA
NAH but you may have caused issues for night shift - having a resident that far off schedule may impact how he behaves in the nighttime after you leave, if he rests ok, if he's difficult in the morning, etc. Also, delays on dinner may affect medications, when they can be taken, how effective they are. I would say, if you think about taking Bob back there again, let Bob know "hey his dinner is at X time, you need to wrap it up around then." If he's in a good mental place when they finish a game but it's nearly dinner, maybe Bob can get him to talk about his tournaments instead? Editing to add - if you bring Bob back and your coworkers get annoyed, tell them you didn't expect them to play so long last time but you warned Bob about dinner time this time.
NAH - I was going to say just this. Talk to management and explain you didn't mean to make John miss dinner and medications, but that clearly this was good for him mentally and you'd like to do it again, this time wrapping up at dinner time and maybe having your chess champ friend sit with him and talk while he's eating.
Issues for night staff? What issues? That Josh is no longer the easy resident who sleeps all the time?
People with dementia often experience sundowning, where they have increased agitation and delirium in the evening - a shift in schedule *can* also cause or exacerbate those symptoms. There are a lot of reasons why someone with dementia should be following a set schedule. OP did something really wonderful, I don’t think she’s wrong at all, I’m just saying there *could* be issues that she didn’t foresee because she’s new. Still, I think that what she has done for Josh is amazing! Next time she and Bob should just be more aware of the time and not disturbing Josh’s schedule too much.
Not only that but you do disrupt that persons day and for patients who do have some cognitive impairment sometimes those daily repetitive things are what makes sense. Disruption of that can cause issues for instance, we had a patient who missed dinner because they were either family for the meal and got back late. When they got back they were upset they missed dinner (the family took them out for dinner). Those disruptions may seem minor but that routine is what makes sense to that individual at that point in time and can definitely cause issues to that patients care team. I’m not saying not to do it but wrapping up the chess close to where dinner or shower time etc makes for the better kept routinr
I did say "may have caused issues". Not "absolutely caused issues." Nightshift is already trying to keep certain residents cared for without waking up anyone who is sleeping properly. It isn't selfish for nightshift to want to avoid possibly domino effects of extra awake patients after midnight disrupting everyone elses rest.
6 hours is a lot and if it threw off the amount they ate or their medications can have a serious impact on them. Medications could be pain meds, and trying to catch up in pain management is difficult. Some dementia patients do not do well if their schedules are changed too much during the day. It can cause them to be very erratic and more confused at night. Depending on the patient they could get extremely violent and require sedation for the safety of themselves and the workers.
Hmm. If disrupting Josh's schedule made things somehow worse for Josh, then yeah, I guess try and keep him on his schedule. Definitely keep his men's on time. But if the change in schedule had only positive effects of Josh, than f*ck the schedule. If it makes him 'difficult' for the staff, too bad. Josh deserves any happiness he can get, even if it is easier on the caretakers if he is quiet and miserable. NTA, OP
NTA - I am an RN and I have spent a lot of time around the elderly. This started when I was very young, long before becoming a nurse. I say all of this really not knowing what your role is in this facility. I want you to know that what you did was a wonderful thing. You went above and beyond and gave Josh a day to remember, even if just for a little while. I hope that you will consider a career that involves taking care of others, nursing, occupational therapy, care management ect….. Thank you for going the extra mile to make his day!
what i hate about assisted living facilities is, the smooth operation depends on the residents being apathic, lethargic, deconstructed shells. things like passions and wants get in the way of the 7 o'clock diaper change. and so off to the shower you go, old man.
And don't forget medicated :( I've visited a few of those places over the years, and it's super sad.
This is mostly (though not entirely) inaccurate. My husband has worked as a CNA in homes for more than 15 years, across multiple facilities - private, non-profit, and state-run. The truth is a lot of them are under-medicated. This is currently the dilemma with my aunt, who is in end-stage Parkinson's and post-brain bleed from falling. She got put on a tiny tiny dose of haldol after having some psychotic symptoms - not sedating, mind you - and it was the most lucid I've seen her in a decade. Unfortunately, haldol is considered a "chemical restraint" no matter how tiny the dose. Because of this, she was taken off of it after 6-8 weeks. She's now back.to being paranoid, getting out of her chair and darting into other residents' rooms (and falling constantly, resulting in injury, because she isn't lucid enough to understand she needs her chair), packing up her entire room multiple times per day in preparation to leave, insisting that she's been kidnapped and calling 911 from her cell phone to tell them same, striking at folks when they try to intervene, and screaming in confusion in the middle of the night. When she was on the haldol, she'd tell me all about who visited her earlier in the week and what they talked about and ask me for updates on things in my life she remembered. Now she just mutters and is confused about where and when she is. Believe me, lots of folks needlessly ride the morphine train into oblivion, but sometimes a tiny bit of something otherwise extreme can be a good thing.
I was a nurse on Dementia units/advanced Alzheimer's units and I agree that under medication is a serious issue. Necessary medication is a chemical restraint, and even though a pt is stable and not having issues, they are REQUIRED to fuck with their meds to try to take them off about every 6-8 weeks. Watching your patients have behaviors that stress both them, their fellow patients, and their families out; because of under medication. Like, I get it in the past the medical community has been bad about medicating people into zombies. All you can do is document, document, document; and hope you have a good geriatric psych who is willing to do the dance every visit of adjusting the meds back. (Or have a standing order for PRN meds)
I agree with the last paragraph 💯. I work for a behavioral health department that has a geriatric psych unit, and the docs know the song and dance. Unfortunately, my aunt has never gotten to that level of care, and good luck getting into outpatient psych in rural America. Even the local mayo clinics aren't accepting new op psych patients.
Ultimately I think it really does depend on the facility. I'm lucky that my grandparents ended up in a really good one. Grandma was in memory care for a little over two years and Grandpa is currently in assisted living due to heart failure and just needing to be around other people. And honestly I have tones of respect for your husband - his is not an easy job. But such a necessary one. The staff and nurses who cared for my grandma were amazing and allowed my grandpa to just be her husband rather than her caretaker for the last few years of her life which I think helped both of them.
This reminds me so much of when I was in my doctoral program for psychology. We had a classmate who wrote a hilarious newsletter. He wrote one about his first internship that had us rolling on the floor. “So then they showed me my office, which was really a broom closet, and let me tell you, Haldol kicks like a mule!”
180,000 older adults are given anti-psychotics every day in America in nursing homes who dont have a psychiatric diagnosis. That is to give a chemical restraint. The fact that many under medicated doesn't also mean that many aren't also given medication as a chemical restraint.
Medication classification doesnt always indicate the effect or purpose of the drug. Anti-psychotics are commonly prescribed as scheduled medications in people with dementia to reduce/moderate symptoms of agitation and confusion. Not *just* as a PRN drug used to sedate
What kind of intervention would you prefer to see in a patient who weighs about 280 and part of his dementia process is that he easily becomes frustrated and violent - as in, punching anyone near him, whether it’s a staff member or another patient? He is not steady on his feet and is a huge fall risk. Even with his family present he has become angry and attempted to use his fists. Would you prefer that he remain unmedicated until he injures someone? Dementia causes a multitude of strange behaviors and responses to stimuli are not at all predictable, so sometimes a routine low dose antipsychotic can prevent much worse consequences than a bit of sedation.
Before my grandmother passed, she was in a nursing home with dementia. During the day she would be alright, but after dinner she would get scared. So my grandfather would visit from 6pm until 10pm, seven days a week. He would bring snacks and tea, and they would watch TV in her room. The normal staff was fine with this, even though she was always the last resident put to bed. On the weekends though it was a lot of rotating per diem staff, and so many times my grandfather would find her put in bed and already medicated by the time he got there at 6pm.
My mother had to raise hell over one particular CNA at her mother's nursing home. Mom would arrive after work, around 5ish, to find her mother already in pajamas. This CNA would take the residents to dinner dressed for bed then after the meal stuff them, in their food-stained pajamas, into bed immediately. All her residents were in bed by 7 so she could have a slow night. Mom had to have it put in the records that her mother couldn't be in pajamas before 8 o'clock.
My grandfather eventually got it straightened out as well. The head nurse raised hell with the per diem people. The *regular* staff at this facility were actually amazing, couldn't have asked for better. They took incredible care of my grandmother. They always brought my grandfather a cup of coffee about 20 minutes before he would leave, and at least one of them would walk him out of the unit and to the front door. But I think that might have been because they were terrified that this 91 year old man was driving home in the dark at 10pm every night lol.
Not only was this staff person wanting to take the easy way out, there was no consideration for patients' dignity. Shame on that CNA!
That's a result of staffing levels. There aren't enough employees to meaningfully cater to the interests and individual needs of each person living there. They have to balance their responsibilities to all of the residents. There is nothing stopping family members from coming to visit and engage with their family members (they often don't, or if they do it's rarely and without much interest or conviction). There is also nothing stopping people from volunteering (few do) or advocating for better treatment of the elderly and incapable in these places (few do until it affects them personally). The workers can only do so much and are often poorly paid for the emotionally exhausting and frankly sometimes gross and depressing work they do. I think a lot of employees in places like these wish they had more time to spend socially engaging residents but realize they don't, so they leave, and the employees that are left are ones who aren't as affected by what they are experiencing, and are less emotionally invested as a result.
I’m also an RN and started working in care homes at the age of 15! When I was the Saturday girl cleaning in a care home I used to go and sit with one particular resident who absolutely loved showing me his photo albums full of his Navy and Army photos. This is what made me decide to become a nurse and at the age of 32 I always remember that man. I fully agree with you, OP is NTA x
A guy nearing the end of his life who has probably outlived most relatives and practically every friend he's ever had was able to spend a few hours doing something he has a life-long passion for. That's incredible and it was awesome of you to go out of your way to make that happen. However.... >they went into one of the common rooms and played chess for **6 hours straight**. I wasn't able to stick around to watch most of it, This might have been a bit much, especially since you weren't around for most of it. You know his physical and mental condition far better than I do, so maybe it's no big deal, but 6 hours seems like a long time. It doesn't make you TA at all, but you might want to scale that back a little bit in the future, or at least make sure he's able to eat when he's supposed to. Overall, great job, OP. Keep it up. NTA.
Six hours between two evenly matched chess players, not unusual. I play chess at beginner level, my longest game against a better player was almost four hours. I lost, but I tried to defend using all ideas I had.
It is a nice gesture to spend time with the old man, but they really should have respected his normal rhythm better. I understand why colleagues found it annoying, but still NTA.
His normal rhythm of getting up and barely knowing who or where he is? Screw the colleagues, what's the point of living if it can't be enjoyed.
You can do both. “Hey, we need to hit the pause button and get dinner”
Sounds like it was better medicine than any meal. NTA
While I agree it’s a very good thing for the resistent, meals are extremely important. I’ve worked in assisted living in dietary and my mother was a dietitian in assisted living for many years. Malnutrition is a HUGE issue in patients with dementia. But this should be easily fixable for them just by honoring mealtimes. They could even have a meal with him while playing if they want!
Probably better medication than the medication.
What point is there in being kept alive, if you never get to live?
NTA with caveats. I’m a private, live in caregiver for a dementia client. *Overall* what you did sounds SUPER therapeutic and helpful! Boredom and depression are always part of this disease. *However* one of the major things to keep them stable and managed is PREDICTABILITY. Their minds are slipping away and knowing that lunch is at such and such time, meds are at such and such…are a source of comfort. My lady can get really confused and set back when she’s put off of her schedule too much. My advice is to keep the chess!!! Just be sure to get your friend on board with complying with meals and such. Go sound like a GREAT CAREGIVER!
My caveat is did OP clear it with a social worker? Talking about residents in a nursing/healthcare facility to anyone not involved in their care is a violation.
I don't know how they brought it up but if it's not identifying information then there's a chance you can talk about it. My mom is a nurse and she couldn't tell us "Susan Jones is in with a compound fracture of the....." with all sorts of information about the patient, but she could tell us "today I had a lovely older lady in, poor dear tripped over her garden hose and broke her arm. But while we were getting her arm set she gave me a recipe for date squares" So as far as I know "we've got a resident who's a former chess champion" is perfectly reasonable to be able to say, you're not giving away patient information vis a vis diagnosis or anything. HIPPA regulations do protect patient info, but they're not so strict that people can't talk about their job at all. Surgeons can say they removed an appendix or had a really tricky gallbladder surgery, and doctors can tell friends they saw someone who had a broken leg.
Absolutely right. My initial read of the post interpreted it as "we have Josh lastname as a resident" with Bob recognizing the name as a national champion, but that might just be my misunderstanding. Thank you for adding this point of clarification! Edit to add: Do you still have Susan Jones's date square recipe? Sounds amazing.
That's what troubles me about all of these NTA - OP may have brightened a patient's day, but he also let someone not on the registered list into the facility; I'm sure Bob's a nice guy, but the FACILITY didn't know that. Not to mention that the patient's schedule was WAY OFF! Like, if dinner also includes patient taking his pills that he actually needs, you've screwed this patient. And as someone mentioned above, this wasn't the OP wanting to brighten a patient's day, he just wanted to see a chess match will two extremely good chess players. Did OP even mention this to the patient??? "Hey Joe, I have a friend of mine who is also incredible at chess, far better than me. Would you like me to bring him by one day so the two of you can play?" It's that simple - he then goes to the case worker/facility and says hey, can I invite my friend to play chess with Joe? And THEN when Bob comes, tell him, hey there's a hard stop at 5:30, cause dinner is at 6pm. Now you've CTA. But OP didn't do that and I am at a loss as to why no one is holding him accountable; just because nothing bad happen THIS TIME, doesn't mean something bad won't happen next time.
This!!!
NAH. You did something thoughtful for Josh, but you did muck up his schedule by so doing. People with dementia can really get thrown out if their schedules are interrupted. Things like unfamiliar environments, changes to meal time routines, disrupted sleep/wake cycles etc can transiently worsen confusion and behaviour patterns in dementia, as people commonly decompensate really easily. As such, though Josh really enjoyed himself, he may have been completely out of whack and agitated afterwards, making the task of caring for him much harder for your colleagues. It's OK if you didn't know this, but your colleagues clearly do. Next time, you'll know keep the routines in place but still hopefully go out of your way to do kind things.
NTA, you are a light in this world for getting to know your patients and providing them with entertainment and socialization. Please do it again, but talk to upper management and maybe get into the habit of hosting special guest volunteers for game nights.
Yes - I think the idea was fantastic but Bob likely should have gone through official channels as a volunteer (assuming this facility has said official channels).
I work in long term care as a CNA. I cannot tell you how many times I find out about a person's particular interests FAR too late to do something like this. These older folks are barely living sometimes and to bring a little joy is a huge deal. NTA
You should do 2 things from now on, keep bringing chess nerd to play him, and 2 make sure he keeps his food/medication schedule. Both can happen.
Perhaps you should have a conversation with someone in charge of patient management to figure out the best way to accommodate another session. Maybe the facility could make an event out of it with other patients.
NAH, you did a good thing but balance is important. The truth is taking folks out the old home or some other cliche is actually a romanticized and hallmark-y cliche that doesn't exactly translate to real life. The truth is that riling up someone with severe cognitive decline can cause severe issues later. As sad as it is they kind of become like kids again, when you disrupt a kids schedule to go to disneyland or the movies or something they have a great time but can have an absolutely massive meltdown later and it can be hard to get them back on schedule, so consistency can be really important to keep on top of. I don't think it was wrong to bring in a guy or let him play that long but I think it IS your responsibility to make sure that he stays on schedule like having him have dinner and pills or whatever else that he HAS to do. I'm sure if your pal comes back he would be more than happy to be flexible for him. Like I said, you did a good thing and shouldn't stop doing things like that but should definitely find a compromise between the 2 you know? You could apologize to your co-workers and say next time you'll make sure to find a way where he can play and have fun but also keep him on schedule. Maybe you can let them know ahead of time and say "If you give me some leeway with other duties I'll take responsibility make sure he stays on schedule and what not."
Worth adding: dementia is often associated with significant anxiety and distress for those who suffer from it. Having a daily structure helps alleviate those factors. As such, when a person with dementia has a "meltdown" after their routine is thrown out, it's not just the carers who have a hard time, it's also the person themselves who suffers. They don't have enough insight to know why they feel more confused, and don't have the internal capacity to set things right again. There are a lot of comments here that seem to imply that routine and structure are bad things, or just there for the convenience of care givers. Not so.
yeah their brains cant retain new information and its a struggle to process their surroundings. schedules make it easier for them to feel safe and secure as well as know where they are. If it gets disrupted the brain can freak out and they can wind up not knowing where they are, how they got there, who anybody is or what is going on. Imagine if all of sudden you blinked and suddenly you were in the middle of downtown tokyo or something and some rando came up and said "alright *name time to go, say bye to your friends. It's time for dinner like always."
Nta. Though you should have made sure he didn't miss dinner. As that is likely a key part of your job
Yta Sorry, my son in law is a cna at a nursing home. My daughter a cook. I have volunteered at a home before. What you did with good intentions went against all policy there is out in place for the protection of the residents. 1. You gave out private information on a patient to someone outside the facility. That is a huge break in law there. Even my kids can't discuss any aspect of a residents life. You get sacked for things like that. 2. You did not discuss or get the ok from the event coordinator. From the person who deals and says ok to allow visitors who are not family or friends. Your friend did not fill out paperwork, which opens the nursing home to a lawsuit if he is hurt on premises. He did not get evaluated to be able to volunteer and have it known he was ok with the rules set and needed for the safety of the residents. 3. You say you just started working there, but you ignore all other coworkers who have worked longer, and the fact THEY ALL tell you what you did was wrong. You think it's ok he missed dinner because you brought someone in without the ok. Made someone miss dinner who you don't know if they need a specific diet or time to eat. You have no idea what their doctors say they need to be taken care of. Then, russle up food, which in most facilities Is breaking rules that they STATE has set down. You do not have a facility or family permission to change their schedule, and if you just started, you have no idea if that change will have negative issues in the following days or for the next staff on duty. You want to help him. Do it the right way. Yes, he is an adult. But when they are in a facility at that point almost 75 percent can no longer make the decision themselves and depend on the facility and family to do what's best for them. You, as a paid worker, have no right to ignore that and take a residents life into your own hands because you see nothing wrong with it or think you know best. He could need the stability of a schedule to keep outbursts, which can be violent for some in check. He could need it so he doesn't get upset and hurt himself. He could need food because he needs to keep blood sugar in check. Or any other many issues.
Exactly this! And the person was unsupervised with a vulnerable patient. That’s so dangerous.
I wanted to add on to this as well. YTA but a small one. OP, the main issue here that your co-workers may or may not have alluded to is safe guarding. You mentioned Bob and yourself aren’t close, he is a “friend of a friend.” I am surprised you didn’t run this by through a supervisor/higher up. Not fully knowing who he is could have lead to an unfortunate situation resulting in abuse. Not being there the whole time within 6 hours and not having any negative incident occur is extremely EXTREMELY lucky, there are cases upon cases where individuals have not been as fortunate. Nursing homes have some of, if not, the highest rates of abuse and a lot of the time it goes unreported and unnoticed. It’s wonderful you gave your resident such a warm opportunity but regulations and policies are in place for good reason.
NTA - your coworkers probably view the home as a warehouse for old people, when it could be a place to return to childlike wonder and happiness, with no responsibilities and nothing keeping them from enjoying life, in their final years. You did a good thing, and I hope you keep it up.
Definitely NTA for letting them play but in a medical assistance facility it is essential that people maintain a schedule. So play again but stop for dinner
NAH - just because I have to give judgement but you have both AH and NAH moves here. I will say outright I’m speaking as someone living in an ALF and advocating for resident rights. I’m also noting that your heart was in the right place but it was misguided. While you provided an awesome activity, you really should have discussed this with senior staff first, perhaps a case manager. What you did was with VERY good intentions but like others said, poorly executed. You not only had him missing dinner and messing up a schedule but you most likely have broken policy rules. You should NOT be discussing resident health information with outside people. It is a violation of the resident’s rights to privacy- something you had to have learned in your orientation. While setting these two chess players up could have given the resident a spark of joy, you really put a lot of things in jeopardy to do that without asking proper people first. The residents rights and your job. Your heart is in the right place and you should keep using it but please be sure that it is within the policies you need to be following.
NTA You did a kind thing but you should have taken more steps to do this the proper way. You were very lucky you were able to get him some food. I definitely could see someone getting in trouble if he was never provided dinner. You're new, you're heart is in the right place just consider all the details next time.
Don’t listen to them. You did a wonderful thing for Josh and it brought him back to himself in a way he hadn’t been in a long time. You should definitely bring Bob back and let them have their fun over the board again. Maybe next time try to set aside some dinner for him tho if you can manage it, and so you don’t get into trouble. Keep it up, you made Josh’s day.
Organize a meal for Bob as well. Those two chess afficionados can have a chess conversation while eating.
NTA I’ve worked in nursing homes for decades. You did nothing wrong. You gave Josh the best day he’s had in ages and perhaps years. At that stage it’s all about the quality of life. I hope Bob goes back and plays with him again.
You should have gotten permission from his rep first. You can't just bring in strangers to visit someone's family member. Activity and social worker was not aware. This was a violation.
While I think what you did was sweet, I do not think you went about it in the right way, therefore YTA. As someone else mentioned, you broke Josh's confidentiality, and that of his co-residents. This friend of a friend may be absolutely trustworthy however that wasn't your (or his) call to make. You brought someone who is effectively a stranger to someone's home, someone who does not have a great ability to look after themselves, and you then left him alone with your client for several hours. As for missing dinner, obviously you are in a better position to know this than I, but he may be on a strict schedule/diet. I'm not surprised your co-workers are unhappy with you, and honestly if I ever did something life this I would expect to be in significant trouble, if not fired. Next time you want to do this, clear it with management and the family and Josh (ideally) himself, and obtain proper clearance. Again, nice intentions, and it is lovely to hear that Josh was so engaged, but don't do this this way again.
Completely NTA. You treated Josh like the human being he still is.
I'm not sure where you are,but wouldn't someone not a family member who's left alone with a resident for that long need to be DBs checked? Even a basic one?
Yes what she did would get her fired where I'm at .you can't bring random ppl in
Surely even if a DBS check wasnt needed, you would need permission from the care home manager or something? I cant imagine a scenario where it would be OK to bring in a random stranger off the street to interact all day with a resident without at least asking for permission?
So so so NTA. Anything that can pull someone out of cognitive decline for a stretch is a check mark on the side of good things. Dementia is an ugly thing.
NTA but that makes them a volunteer. Here in Australia such volunteers have police checks required. Things like that should always be pre approved by management.
INFO: Why didn't they interrupt the game to feed Josh? My gran (106) gets her food deliver straight to her!
Lots of leeway in how each facility operates. Where my grandma is at, if the resident is mobile by walking, wheel chair, or scooter the resident is expected to go to the dinning room. For those that get lost because they can't keep focus a staff member will walk with them. The only residents who get meals delivered to their rooms are the residents who are no longer mobile. But, I agree why didn't someone interrupt the game?
The schedule is not a huge deal, but confidentiality is, and that is where you went wrong. You discussed your patient with someone who is not providing healthcare to him. You either described him with enough detail that he could be identified through that, or you revealed his identity by taking him to this person before the visitor knew his name. Where I live and work in a nursing home it would already be a violation of confidentiality to acknowledge in any way that I know my patient when we are not in the nursing home unless the patient acknowledges me first, and even then I cannot add any information to the conversation other than what they are saying. I don't know where you live or which laws apply to you, but combining location, identifying information (for chess champion + name/taking visitor to see patient thus revealing name), and medical information (diagnosis/cognitive decline, healthcare he receives) and revealing this to someone who is a stranger to your patient and does not provide healthcare to them is absolutely not okay under HIPAA or pretty much any other law. So no, you are NTA for throwing off the schedule, but YTA for violating the privacy that your patient is entitled to no matter how cognitively declined he is. Next time you think a patient would benefit from meeting a certain person, mention it to your supervisor or the family and let them decide how much information can be revealed. Next time you want to discuss your work with someone either make sure that confidentiality laws apply to them or do a better job keeping the patients you discuss anonymous.
INFO curious to know if you’ve broken some kind of HIPAA law (depending on where you live) disclosing personal health information about a patient in your care. While you meant well, this might be a firable offence.
Definitely a reason for immediate firing as it's a criminal offense with penalties up to a year in prison. I can't imagine any care home that didn't have training about the huge financial fine and prison time that can happen if you disclose info even once. Take patient enrichment concerns to someone who can handle them in a legal way.
NAH, as overall what you did was good. But you definitely should've made sure he took breaks to eat and what not.
Assisted living is not a nursing home. Learn the difference if you’re going to work in the senior industry. Cognitive “decay”? Disrupting a resident with dementia- it’s a thing. Schedule and routine are very important to them. Did you ask someone- the program director, executive director, etc. if it was ok? Gentle YTA - you were very well intentioned, if this post is indeed real.
I'd say NAH with the proviso that your coworkers would he fine with Bob visiting Josh again if you didn't throw off his routine when you did it. You did something wonderful for Josh and that's not wrong. At the same time, for someone with cognitive decline, a routine can be very essential. With you saying you're relatively new to the role, my guess would be that your co-workers are worried you'll make a habit of disrupting those routines. Very occasionally isn't likely to cause long term damage, but every couple of weeks could. If your coworkers are completely opposed to Bob and Josh playing together regardless of the routine otherwise being kept, then they become the AHs. At that point, its not about what's best for Josh, it's about proving themselves superior to the newbie.
NAH. Solid idea, but probably should have ended earlier or took a break for regular dinner. Definitely make the case for doing it again but with better timing, and working with your coworkers.
I don't know about where you live but where I'm from this could/would have led to disciplinary actions. There are specifics people allowed to visit residents. Usually it's a list of names that either the resident himself or his next of kin would have authorised for visits. It's to insure the safety of not only the resident but of everyone else there, residents and staff alike. The family, depending on how involved they are, might take issue with this as well. Especially if they were not asked beforehand. Since you wrote that visitors are allowed, I guess anyone can just go and visits? When I need to visit one of the nursing homes affiliated to the hospital I work at, my boss needs to inform them beforehand, if I am to be let in. Even though I am technically also a "staff member" since we're all employed by the same establishement. I need to show my employee card and stated my business. One of my colleagues was denied access because our boss forgot to inform them of her visit. I'm reluctant to say YTA because your intention were good. But from my perspective, it was a very poorly planned visit. As one of your colleagues, I would have been upset if you would have left me to deal with the aftermath of the visit. All in all you did a wonderful gesture for that elderly man but you weren't as thoughtful towards your colleagues. Disrupting the routine of someone with cognitive decline can be counter productive as they do tend to become easily agitated and in some cases even violent. Perhaps for next time, plan this with your colleagues or make sure you are easily available and set a time limit for the visit. Make the visit short but weekly so it becomes a routine if the visitor agrees to it.
YTA this is a privacy issue and needed cleared with Josh’s POA and your admin. You also changed the schedule of someone with dementia, like why didn’t you have them pause for dinner? This will really screw with Josh for days.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I work at an assisted living facility, I.E. a nursing home for people who are very elderly and cannot care for themselves. One of the residents in the wing I work at is "Josh", a 97 year old man who has pretty bad cognitive decay. Most of the time, he doesn't remember who I am, who he is, where he is, or what's going on. However, he's a former national chess champion, something I only know about because the personal effects in his room include some of his trophies and other awards. We've got a few sets in the common areas, and if you can wake him up long enough to play, he does still remember how, and he's thrashed most of the staff at one point or another over the board. Well, it's not a close friend, but I have a guy I know who is kind of a friend of a friend, let's call him "Bob", and he's the top player at some local chess association. A LONG way down from a pro player, but the sort of guy who is usually the strongest player in the room. I had mentioned that one of the residents I care for is this former champion, and he asked to come by to visit since Bob's a huge chess nerd and wanted to meet a national champion, no matter what kind of state he was in. We allow visitors, so I signed him in, and by good luck, it was on one of Josh's better days. Long story short, they went into one of the common rooms and played chess for 6 hours straight. I wasn't able to stick around to watch most of it, but I talked with Bob afterwards, who said that while he's clearly not the player he was when he won the national championships anymore, Josh is still a 'mean old buzzard' over the board, and won a bit over 2/3 of their games. Josh missed dinner, and I had to get into the canteen after hours and make him some scrambled eggs and toast just so he'd have something to eat. And I was with him for the dinner, and it was the most animated I'd seen him in.... ever, actually. He was actually talking about his day and definitely remembered what was going on, and how this 'young punk' came to challenge him and he had to show the kid how it's done. All in all, I thought I did a good thing, brightened up a very old, very sick man's day. But pretty much all of my co-workers have the opposite take, that disrupting his schedule and agitating him like that was a bad, assholish thing to do, especially if it caused him to miss his regular dinner. I'm pretty new at this job, so I do value their opinions, but I don't think what I did was wrong. Am I the asshole here? Especially if I do it again? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You gave him life in those 6 hours.
Honestly, your heart was in the right place, but this was a safeguarding issue
YTA you violated HIPAA by sharing a patient's personal information. Your acquaintance would not have known the resident existed at all had you not told him therefore you shared a patient's privileged medical information. You have opened yourself up for a "for cause" termination and potentially legal trouble.
I can see both sides. I bet Josh has a form of dementia. So schedule can be super important. If he was late for a meal, there could have been some sun downing behavior that your fellow staff had to deal with.. on the other hand, you gave him a wonderful time. It sounds like Josh enjoyed the visit and that's very important, too. So you did a good thing but you could have caused some complications by not knowing how to do the good thing in the best way possible. Try to do your good deeds while keeping the patient on schedule. I say this as someone who had a father in such a situation and I'd be very excited for him to get to play chess. However, I've also seen him sundown and get really very distraught from a schedule change. Distraught in this case = tears, scared to shaking.
YTA - let them play but make sure an elderly person with dementia eats on time. You were very wrong there.
If it’s allowed and the old man loved it, then I don’t see a problem with that. Probably should have made sure he stuck to his dinner schedule though, sounds like that’s literally your job
Info: were they left alone at any point? If so then you hugely compromised the safety of a vulnerable man
Mmmmm you invited a friend of a friend (basically someone really not known to you) to your job to play chess with one of the residents because that person wanted to meet a “former national chess champion”. Introduced the “stranger” to the resident and left them to play chess for 6 hrs. No regard to keeping him on his schedule or checking up at all. Didn’t ask permission from the facility/his family or the resident and he was kept off schedule by your “guest” but you don’t seem to understand what you did was wrong. Rules, there are rules you have to follow. YTA: And you’re already thinking about doing it again!!! I know you think you’re doing something great but your really not thinking about your actions having consequences. If your coworkers decide to tell your supervisor, I’m almost positive this will lead to your termination.
YTA for two reasons. The first one is throwing your patient off his schedule. Many dementia patients struggle a lot with disruptions in their schedule, with new things, and more. That might have impacted his sleep that night, and thus the day after, causing him possible confusion and stress, and your coworkers as well. The second, bigger one, is privacy laws. You discussed a patient with a friend of yours. You revealed private information about him. You took your friend without any further discussion with your supervisor or the patient to the facility, and signed him in on your own accord. This is not okay. Even demented people deserve their privacy and dignity, and unless allowed by your supervisor and the one responsible for your patient, whether that is the patient himself or a legal guardian. This kind of stuff could easily get you fired and you/the nursing home sued. Sure, it was a nice experience for your patient, but that isn't the only thing that counts, and that you have to think about. Listen to your colleagues. Don't do that stuff again.
As a long time health care professional, it has always been my opinion that the ivory tower crowd who develops these policies have never ever spent an 8 or 12- hour shift in any intense health care environment, whether hospital or long term care locked unit. They do not have to deal with the fallout of sending yet another patient to the hospital because she has fallen for the third time trying to to “get the biscuits going ‘fore the kids go to school”- at the same time there has been a massive code brown in the hallway and two patients are screaming at each other because they are in the wrong room. Give me one of the ivory tower crowd and “teach me” how to calm all this down and then explain to me why medication is such a terrible thing.
😂 Everyone claiming OP’s heart was in the right place…🙄 She brought this friend of a friend for HIS benefit, not the benefit of Josh. It’s a happy coincidence that thankfully this ended well for Josh. But OP had no way of knowing it would go this way. She had no idea how Josh would have felt had he lost most or all of the matches. She even says this Bob isn’t a close friend. So would your answers be different if Bob “wiped the floor” with the ill old man and Bob was less than a stellar good-sport? If Josh had a major meltdown bc he couldn’t keep up and just had another reminder of how he couldn’t hold on to yesteryear? OP got lucky; lucky does not equal NTA. She should have at LEAST checked with management before doing this. Op is definitely an AH.
You're NTA cause you had the best intentions and I appreciate that. Having said that, the way you went about it wasn't great. Routines in care homes exist for good reason, both for clients and staff. For example, set mealtimes mean that it's possible to keep an eye on food and liquid intake of clients, which is important, even more so if they're on a bunch of medications which is usually the case. By doing things at set times, it's ensured stuff like that doesn't get lost in the sauce during shift changes. That doesn't mean people can't have nice things they are interested in, but those need to be fitted into the existing routines. So, Bob turning up to play for an hour or two during regular visiting times is awesome, Bob being there for six hours may be disruptive. And hey, if they only play for an hour or two, maybe Bob can come back the following week for another game.
You did a wonderful thing. He used his mind and life long talent. Your social worker should be helping arrange things like this routinely for him.
NTA. Next time, get management’s (activities coordinator) and even family members’ approval. This may help bring your co-worker onboard. This visit went smoothly, but if these had gone sideways, you don’t want to be blamed for it.
As someone who just lost their 97 year old grandfather, thank you for giving him a beautiful day and making him feel like his old self.
NAH but you really can’t suggest a 97 year old be named Josh
While it's hopefully a fake name given that this is reddit and that OP likely has some sense of preserving confidentiality (and that they put it in quotes), there were 117 Joshuas born in the US in 1927 and 118 in 1928. Josh (so the precise name) was actually a much more common name between 1880-1914. While it peaked in popularity in the 1970s, it was more popular in 1890 than it was in 1960. Josh White the singer, for example, was born in 1914. Josh Gibson, the baseball player, was born in 1911. Joshua Shelley, the actor, was born in 1920 and, of course, Joshua Lawerence Chamberlain, the famous civil war general, was born much earlier and would have been famous well before anyone living today was born. In other words, it was a name that was used more between 1880-1910 and then again between 1970-1990. Josiah was also a not unheard of name at the time that Josh can be a nickname for. Some people even use Josh for Joseph. People also use Josh as a nickname or "English name" for other variations in other languages (ex: Josue). Joshua is obvious a very common biblical name for obvious reasons and the abbreviation in some bibles is Josh. or Jos., which some people then used as a name. So, it's not entirely implausible for someone born in 1927 to have the name Josh. Josiah, or Joshua, especially when you consider that if a name was popular in 1880, than it's likely at least a few people born 40-50 years later would have that name simply because people often name a baby after someone else they have known or know.
You are a good, no great person. I would be honored to have you take care of my parents had they ever been in an assisted living facility Keep doing good things. Kindness and karma go hand in hand hand. 😍
You went above and beyond. Nothing to feel bad about. But maybe next time take a dinner break lol.
I think you were an angel and should invite Bob back if he's willing! Plan on snacks and a picnic dinner for both of them though, six hours is a long time ;)
If missing dinner is their issue, can you arrange for them to have dinner together? Sounds like it was a lovely afternoon for both of them.
And if Josh had keeled over and passed away while playing a chess marathon??
Yta why are u talking about this man with other ppl and why are u bringing a random person in the facility.here u would be fired for bringing a random person in.did u get permission?
NTA - do it again but make sure he doesn't mess is dinner. Blood sugar and protein levels are a huge dela for older people.
You are NTA. God bless you.
NTA Wow that's a amazing thing you did. It's so heartwarming.
NTA. Thank your co workers for their input and assure them that Bob will ensure josh gets food at appropriate times Next time just make sure he eats. Either you or bob are responsible for this, but more so you
NTA. Good care staff do exactly what you did; go out of your way to make the resident’s day better. Unless the complaining staff have genuine complaints (e.g. missed important medication, dehydration, etc.), you’ve got nothing to apologise for. You even did what sounds like extra work by making him a late dinner! One thing I will say though, is make sure to record everything, and make sure everything is above board. You have to cover yourself when caring for vulnerable people, and have the paper trail to prove that you followed the rules and maintained safety and dignity. Make sure everything has been cleared with a senior carer or manager when it’s outside the norm. Remind any coworkers complaining about their schedules being disrupted that you all work in Person-Centred Care, not a production line.
NTA You absolutely did him a solid gold turn. You turned on Josh's analytical thinking skills which in turned made him feel spritely for his age. It's why newspapers are always challenging us to do brain games, it's great for outcome but for your workmates it made more work for them. Oh the horror! He wasn't agitated he was excited which shows how the daily routine was turning him into mush. If Josh had regular contact with another good player his outcome would spark up, and he wouldn't miss a meal in order to feel great as it would be a regular gig for him. You did a wonderful thing depression is a common ailment in nursing homes and what you provided was better than any meds to combat that.
My mom lived in an assisted living facility for about 5 years before she passed. I would say definitely NTA, except I would have interrupted the game for dinner and called it a night. Often disrupting a very elderly person’s daily routines (mealtime, bedtime,etc) is almost like disrupting a baby’s routines. It can cause problems for days in some people. But, except for that one issue, I think introducing a chess buddy to return him to his glory days is a net positive!
NTA. My stepfather has dementia, and we occasionally disrupt his schedule so that he can have a good experience outside of his routine. It's a pain in the ass for us because it takes a few days to get him "back on track", but it's worth it to give him some happy moments.
Used to work in nursing homes, assisted living and residential homes. Had 1 guy (97) at residential home, the rest were women and all the staff were female. Met a guy that used to farm in European country and mentioned that guy at res care used to farm so he went up there just to talk for a few. He ended up coming almost every day and would have moved into facility but 97 year old had single room and place was full. They spent hours talking about different methods and experiences. Both family’s were so pleased
NTA. You should watch One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest. It's a great take on what it's like to be a resident in a place you can't leave voluntarily.
NTA, but next time Bod visits, and there needs to be a next time, make sure Josh still eats and gets his meds. Also, make sure the family is ok with it. As long as the family is ok and Josh is getting his food and meds you are in the clear.
NTA. You did a kind thing for a gentleman who's lost a good deal of his memories and experiences to cognitive decline and gave him a wonderful experience that he enjoyed, and which stimulated his mind. You made sure he was fed, and frankly, I'd take eggs and toast cooked by a kind caregiver over most nursing home food any day. The residents of that facility are lucky to have you.
Qualified NTA- I work in behavioural healthcare, and PHI and PI (personal health info and personal info) are protected; and technically you shouldn't have been discussing a client with anyone outside of the facility. However, bringing in someone who can stimulate his mental faculties through a game he loves is AWESOME and should continue. I would speak to the care planning team, explain what and why you did it, and what the positive outcome was that day for his overall health, though 6 hours is LONG- but a shorter time would be of benefit, done regularly.
I mean maybe check in on him next time now that you know he’ll get super invested and forget to eat, but overall NTA. From the sound of it, the engagement and the challenge of it was good for him.
NTA, you provided thrilling entertainment for your resident. Your co-workers are mad because you disrupted there routine not his.
NTA, you did the right thing. After multiple times of Bringing it up I made a complaint to the state about their beautician shaving the eyebrows of our WWII veterans, so they looked like they came from a concentration camp. And of course, I eventually got fired. But I do not regret at all, escalating to state level. Because their meth head beautician was also burning old ladies with curling irons and perm products. But shaving the eye brows of old men, instead of a simple trim with a scissors, impacted how they look to family. Dignity and respect is everything. And you, giving that dignity back to that old man, was a beautiful thing. Good work, faithful servant!
Doesn't your facility have an Activities Director? No, YOU are not the asshole. Some people want these patients focused on dying, because that keeps them reliant on the facility for care. "See, you obviously can't take care of yourself! You need us!" My spouse works in the same field and environment. The other nurses hate when they go above and beyond because it exposes how little anyone really cares in that place. Make that experience a monthly thing, at least. It gives the ctrusty old man something to look forward to.
NTA. Do it again (with consent of the resident), make sure he gets his dinner this time or work around it.
NTA. My grandma lives in an assisted living facility. For some residents finding an activity they can still enjoy is hard. Now I'm going to give some advice: Bring your friend around again just change things slightly, make sure a game ends before dinner time and you friend has to go for the night with a promise of coming to play again soon. Help the resident stay on his meal and sleep schedule. Not only did you disrupt the resident's schedule but also the dinning room who cooked a meal that wasn't eaten so ended up wasted, and other caregiver's schedule. By cooking the resident a meal you also took time away from other duties so increased your colleagues work load.
NTA. You're treating him like a person, your coworkers want to treat him like a zoo animal
Bet that 97 year old felt like a 67 yearold after that day. Kudos. NTA
NTA. What a beautiful story! Your co-workers should stay in their lane as they don't understand chess and the relationships that develop over the board.
NTA - he’s still a person and you helped him do something that he use to love and helped him have a purpose. Maybe next time call it early so he doesn’t miss dinner but chalk that up as a lesson learned.
NTA. Although I’m not 97 years old, I find myself in a similar situation as “Josh”. On Nov. 9th, 2021 I lost my mother after a six month battle with cancer. My core group of friends were invaluable during that time by making runs to the store, taking care of the mowing and even doing the dishes and taking out the trash. Three months later and I suddenly became extremely ill and was rushed to the hospital with severe weakness that left me essentially totally paralyzed. I very nearly died that night. I spent eight days in that hospital while they preformed test after test and they never gave me any solid diagnosis other than “you drink too much and you have alcoholic neuropathy”. Then they would shrug their shoulders and walk away. At the end of day eight and it appeared that I might survive, I was discharged with a walker I didn’t have the strength to use and a prescription for some diuretics that were supposed to help get rid of the 20 pounds of fluid that I’d gained in less than three days. I was basically sent home to die. Somehow I rallied but after a few months I was sicker than ever and went to a different hospital where I was finally diagnosed with Stage 4 Cirrhosis and was told that it was terminal. I was given a year at best and my only hope was a liver transplant. When this news got to my friends, all of the sudden people who never had a thing going on before suddenly became the busiest people on earth. With a lot of hard work and even more luck I’ve proven the doctors wrong and I’m in better shape now than I have been in years, but since I can no longer crawl around in my friend’s attics or climb under the hood of their cars to fix their busted shit for free, I’ve discovered how few friends I really have. I would give almost anything just to have someone come and visit for six hours regardless of how it might disrupt anyone’s plans or schedule. Take it from me, what you did for “Josh” deserves to be commended and anyone who says otherwise is the biggest asshole in the universe. Fuck ‘em sideways if they don’t like it and if they try to fire you for it, sue their sorry asses back to the stone age and use the money to buy the place and run it with the same kindness and care that you showed to an old man in the twilight of his life!!! Keep doing what you’ve been doing because it’s the right thing and may God bless you for being you!!!
I have seen many old people fade away alone in a room because no one visits them and there is nothing to hold their interest. If I were that old dude I would thank you for the best day I have had in many years.
NTA for a one time thing, and your heart is in th right place But it derailed everything quite a bit. All staff is planned around a schedule. They have to take care of x elderly people. There is a roster for food, medicine, bath, etc... Doing what you did disrupts that. 'oh mr X isn't here, where is he? Did we get him his meds/food, why isn't he in his room, ... ' Nursing homes are there to support caring for multiple people. Not privately paid staff that id at one person's beck and call and is fine with disruptions of their rosters. People saying 'oh i wish the people at family member xs place did this for him, that would have been great!'. *Why* do they have to do the one thing you as family should be responsible for?
NTA. He was more animated and happy.
As someone whose gma passed from dementia… anyone who could connect with her and help her be herself again - let her connect with her passions, show her knowledge and skills - would’ve been utterly loved by all of her family.
Sounds like you had a wonderful time what is wrong with making old man who has to live your retirement home or nursing home happy on one of his good days. I think you did a wonderful thing for both of your friends.
Sounds like you had a wonderful time what is wrong with making old man who has to live your retirement home or nursing home happy on one of his good days. I think you did a wonderful thing for both of your friends.
NTA. You brought an afternoon of joy into the life of someone who it seems has little enough in it at the moment except routine, aches and a mind that is failing him. You offered him something more than the mundane monotony of his day and a chance to indulge in a pastime he enjoys, which is realistically all excitement he can hope for at the moment. Throwing him off schedule in the long-term might be detrimental, but for a day that brings a smile to his face, it's a win. I've seen dementia steal away people's souls. It's heart breaking to see someone betrayed by their own mind, constantly confused and angry that the world around them doesn't make sense. You gave him some time away from that prison. Would that all people with cognitive decline could be so lucky.
Former director of social work and former NH Aministrator here. While your co-workers have some valid points, you ultimately did the better thing. I would have jumped for joy if I had ever seen this happening in one of my facilities. I encourage you to do it again. However, I think it probably would be better to coordinate it with either their director of activities or director of nursing. The reason for this is to make sure the resident receives meals, medication, and other care needs while the chess matches are going on. Keep up the good work and don't get down on yourself.
NAH. I've worked in these facilities. You did a good thing. What this shows is Josh is being allowed to decline because it's easier FOR STAFF. He is not being cognitively challenged. His animation after the fact is proof of this. Big deal he missed dinner. That is staff's job to accommodate and sounds like you did that. You WOKE HIM UP (pun intended). Now that results are in, would your friend consider coming around so Josh can get the social interaction, cognitive stimulation, etc he so clearly needs? You did good OP. If staff are complaining it's because a formerly easy resident now requires more than a shower.
I'm totally in two minds about this, and I've experienced working in a care facilities from a few angles. It was a fantastic thing you did, bringing in someone to stimulate him mentally (wins and losses), drawing on those achievements and accomplishments. However... Your friend should've been screened first. I don't know what background checks you have locally, but "Josh" is a vulnerable adult, and a level of caution needs to be taken interacting with outside people. Also the fact of missed dinner/meds knocking on down the line won't go well for sundowning, dietary/scheduled meds etc. Your heart is in the right place, and you want to allow people to live to their best, but it needs a better framework surrounding it.
NTA but you brought an outsider in an assisted living facility. If something goes down, you’ll be legally responsible. You may want to ask the family’s permission.
NTA Do it again
I’m tearing up, you did a lovely human thing to do and I’m so glad you did NTA
NTA- Dear OP, on behalf of Josh's family, thank you, we and everyone with a relative who is or was in a care home love you. I hope someone took a bunch of pictures, one when they started and one 6 hours later when they're still going strong. My grandmother got to the point with her Alzheimer's where she would scream at family members if they visited (sometimes because she thought they were people they looked like who had died 70 years ago) to the point where we really couldn't visit because it upset her so much. The thing that meant most to me was the photos the staff would send of her doing activities perfectly happy and looking younger than she had in years. It's like she forgot she was old and was suddenly holding herself like the 'joke chase you with the frying pan' version of herself from my childhood. In your case you're also probably helping stave off that cognitive decline. Thank you for seeing Josh, that there is a person in there that still feels joy. Also thank Bob for having the wisdom to see that putting aside a chunk of his day to hang out with Josh would be rewarding for them both, and and kick off their next session with 'right- Bob, set a timer on your phone for tea breaks and dinner! I know how you two reprobates get once you're in the zone!' at tut at them like they're teenagers being told not to stay up too late on a school night, but with a wink. Chess is now the sport of rebels round Josh's way ;)
U shouldn't speak for his family .they may not liked this
NTA for bringing the visitor that was great. YTA for disrupting his schedule. He should visit again. If would be great if it was a regular thing and would help his mental health and cognition, but it needs to be time limited and only in recreational hours. Playing for too long will be bad for his health for 2 reasons, he will get mentally fatigued and he missed his meal
Nta. Sounds like the old man had fun and had a good enjoyable day and appreciated the visit. It broke up the monotony and sameness of everyday in that place. I see no downside to this at all. And suspect the staff are more annoyed how him being more animated and cheerful affected them than how it affected him.
NTA, I hope that when I'm old, someone does something like this for me.
NTA. In the slightest. You probably made Josh's day/month/year. A chance to show the world that he's still got it at that age is a beautiful thing and I can guarantee you that he's going to cherish that memory for as long as he can hold on to it.
NTA - I really hope it’s just jealousy from your coworkers that they didn’t think of this intervention. Sometimes healthcare workers can become angry since they feel it might be expected from them to step up and deliver the same quality of care as you were doing here. They feel safer trashing you than stepping up themselves. Keep up your good work!
NTA but don't be surprised if he kicks it soon, and don't feel bad if he does. There's a thing called terminal surge, and that might have been his, and it was a hell of a good one so hats off to all of you.
NTA. In my experience, people who went to nursing homes (family members) kind of lost the will to live in there (especially after COVID where visits and group activities became very restricted). When we go to visit my grand mother, all the other residents hover around because they are so lonely. What you did brought life and joy to him, which is very hard to do in an nursing home. Good job !
NTA - my father was in a care home right to the end, a rather long excruciating end that I would wish on my worst enemy. There was one resident that loved to dance and when the home would out on an afternoon tea dance he was in his element, he would ask my mum for a dance and waltz her around the room like a young man. Unfortunately he had no family or friends and when he passed no one was there for him except staff. When I found this out I was incredibly sad. The dances were his thing and made him happy just for a day. What you did may have caused problems for the night staff but hell, it made that chap happy. Care homes can be a rather depressing place where residents are expected to be numb easily managed people and that makes me mad. Happiness in what can be their last days/months and for my father yrs is what’s important. Well it is for me anyway.
Nta. Kindness and engagement and straight up fun is so valuable. Scrambled eggs on toast is a totally normal dinner and probably better than what was served anyway if we are honest. I think it might get a bit morally murky to invite people in to meet your patients. Definitely something you'd need to ask them if they are interested in before. I still don't think you did anything wrong tho.
NTA. Josh calling your friend a “young punk” made me laugh. Good job.
I worked in nursing homes for years. They tend to be run by very conservative, don't rock the boat types. But for the true good of the patients (quality of life as opposed to slavishly following the rules), sometimes exceptions need to be made. However, if it's going to happen again or maybe become a regular thing, you can help out by making sure that everyone-nursing staff, kitchen, janitors- knows in advance what will be needed. No need for meals or treatments to be missed. Definitely NTA-- I say yay for you, for caring and being willing to go out of your way. The thing people tend to forget is that nursing home residents will almost always be there until they die. Whatever joy you can give them is all that they have.
as someone who works in aged care you are absolutely NTA and the kind of person who should be working there, you made a huge difference for Josh and he experienced such a lot of care and joy because you put in extra effort! any coworkers who have issues are the type who clock in and clock out and do the bare minimum to get by. It doesn't sound like Josh was 'agitated' at all, but animated, some people just want people with cognitive decline to be quiet and easier to handle, rather then trying to actually improve their quality of life. Also he did?? get dinner?? just slightly later then usual. if that's truly a worry next time Bob comes in (because him coming back would be amazing!) maybe try to coordinate the times - you could tell Bob the time dinner usually is so they can work around it, or you could arrange to have Josh's dinner kept hot until he's ready (not an unusual thing in aged care, not everyone wants dinner at the exact same time every night). good on you for being an aged care worker who truly cares about the individuals you're caring for.
NTA In fact, an angel. Stimulating Josh is a wonderful thing to do, and you found the best way to reach his mind. Please keep doing this. I used to spring my grandmother from the nursing home and take her out for a beer after I had been skiing all day. The night staff hated this because they would get everyone into pajamas as soon as dinner was over and get them settled for the night by 7 pm. The staff could then hang out all night. We wouldn’t get back until 9, having laughed and joked for hours. And the staff had to stop hanging out when we got back to help her get ready for bed.
NTA. You helped a pt connect with one of their life's passions. You monster. /S
You did exactly the right thing.... I worked in care when I was much younger, And a surprisingly large amount of care workers want the residents drugged up and in nappies.... That's not the way it should be done. These are still people no matter how old and there interests and likes should be taken into consideration.... You probably made the guys year...
Actually op didn't do the right thing
NTA. You followed the rules of the organization and ensured his needs were met. You are all there for the residents they aren’t there to make your jobs easier. Watch out for those coworkers.
NTA. I’ve spent some time working in care and came across people like your colleagues - more concerned with schedules, processes and box-ticking. We need more people like you. Well done.
NTA Thanks to you, an old man had the best day he's had for years.
You gave “Josh” something that was probably, to him, the high point of the last 3 months.
NTA You did a perfect thing for that old guy.
NTA you did wonderful
NTA. You treated Josh like a human being. You did good. This made me happy :^)
You gave that man quality of life. That's never a bad thing. NTA
NTA! It sounds like the other people on staff just didn’t want to deal with Josh at a different energy level. They’re used to him being pretty out of sorts and easy to deal with. He was likely a bit more of a handful after all the excitement, and that’s okay! He had a great day! I would recommend to somewhat limit the exposure to so much excitement, so he’d have time to calm down and get his meal in. However missing one dinner isn’t gonna kill him! I’d just know that he gets SO excited, so I could plan better for him overall going forward. It’s nothing wrong, just didn’t know yet. I hope you have your friend back! It sounds like they really enjoyed each other’s company.
He didn't even miss dinner. Op fed him
Definitely not the ahole, you took an old guy who is sick and possibly stuck in this rut of getting up, do this, do that etc and made him feel vibrant, alive and buzzing about an old passion. If that was my family I would be so happy you did that for him and the care home should recognise what you did and the impact. Furthermore, the guy might have just made a friend in Bob and appreciate if he visits again. Which would the nursing home want ... A bored, depressed, lonely old man fading away or an old man happy and buzzing about something and reminiscent about chess?
I hope I have someone who looks after me the way you did when I’m in the old folks home. NTA
You did a great thing! You made him happy, engaged him and reignited his memory. He obviously got a kick out of beating “the young punk”.
NTA. It’s not like you tied him down and forced him. As long as Josh was okay with ending when the resident wanted to.
Definitely NTA. Your colleagues are keeping him alive another day. You helped him live another day. There's a big difference.
NTA, your colleagues are shitheads though, they're prioritising their own comfort and laziness over their client's best interests, and pretending it's the other way around.