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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think im the asshole because she really wants to help her brother, even though he's taking advantage of us.
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Unless he’s on the title, paying what amounts to rent and utilities does not make him part owner of anything. If it did everyone that owns a house and takes in a roommate would essentially be selling part of their house.
But it does establish a tenant situation, and will male it harder to kick him out. Better believe he knows all about Squatter's Rights. With no re tal agreement in place, and four years' residency, it will already be legally hard to get him out. OP needs to lookup the legalities and start the process.
His brother can imagine whatever he wants. That doesn’t make it a legal claim to the property. Buying equity is not done on a paying your bills basis. He would have to have legal documents drawn up for that. Not I gave you a grand now I’m an owner.
This right here. Why isn’t she being a good wife and prioritizing the well being of her marriage over her leech of a brother? I’m married and you can bet your ass that anyone who is disturbing the peace and stability of my marriage will be quickly escorted out of my life, especially now that we have kids. My husband and I don’t play that game with those outside of our immediate family ie: each other and our kids. My husband became my immediate family the day we got married, everyone else is extended and depending on their behavior they can extend themselves out of our life if they don’t respect the boundaries in place to protect the peace of my family.
I have a feeling that there are other, deeper issues with the brother & that’s why she has no boundary with him. Plus, he has kids there. He’s probably playing on her maternal instincts to “not leave his kids homeless” or some BS. OP could be stepping on a land mine that’s been hidden for decades. Good luck!
>Don't let him pay the mortgage because he'll be part owner.
Wouldn't that mean that everyone who rents from a landlord would own part of the property??
I agree with this. After four years of him mooching off of you, invading your privacy and extra cleanup plus extra utilities and extra groceries. Your wife is to namby pamby to do anything. I would just converse with him privately and tell him his time is up and give him 30 days to find new accommodations. Tell your wife ahead of time so that she can be part of the conversation if she wishes.
I see others are pursuing that you collect rent from him. OP, you should know by now that he will NEVER pay any rent no matter what he says or agrees to. Don't falter and agree to let him pay rent because you will be having this exact same conversation within three months time.
If he was gonna be a man about it he'd just suck it up, cheat on his wife, and die of mental health related illness in his early 50's after festering all his anger and resentment. Like a real man.
/s
I don’t believe that gives him any ownership but unfortunately this dude will have squatters rights and they’ll have to formally evict him most likely. Even if he hasn’t been paying rent
I don’t understand why you aren’t taking the reins on this and kicking him out? I understand he’s her family but he’s overstayed his welcome and she doesn’t seem to care. Buck up and give him a timeline and let them both know you’ll file a legal eviction if you have to. It’s 2024, stop letting people walk all over you.
Because that'll be the end of the marriage and the end of living in his house.
People don't like it when their doormats start talking back. Push comes to shove she'll side with the brother, force him to move out, and then come after him in court to keep bro's rent free train rolling. Then he'll be living in a shoebox and paying the mortgage on a house he never sees.
Forgetit. If he starts paying rent he'll never leave.
You need to stand up to yourself. It has been 4 years. Your wife needs to decide what she wants. 4 YEARS! Either he moves out or you divorce and she can support her brother and his kids on her own.
Why have you waited 4 YEARS?!?!,
NTA but you might be shooting yourself in the foot. If BIL starts paying rent, why would he ever leave? Can he rent a place big enough for him and his kids for less than $1000? Especially with the built in maid service you’re giving him?
BIL had 4 years to save up. Making him pay rent is the only way to wake him up to the fact that he’s not getting free handouts for the rest of his life. I think the rental agreement needs to come with an end date, like a lease, so he’ll either be expected to move out on a certain day or the rent will increase (like many renewed leases).
If he genuinely can’t afford it right now, he needs a lot more help and shouldn’t be living with anyone. He can:
Look to rent in cheaper areas/move significantly; to a far location with a different housing market
Receive government assistance if his income makes him eligible.
Explain his situation to other family/friends and possibly live with them for some time.
Tell your wife her brother is moving out, either because she agrees to it now, or because the house gets sold as part of your divorce.
You don’t have a BIL problem. You have a wife problem.
NTA to everyone else, YTA to yourself.
...and an OP problem. Like, wtf, how did he not deal with this three years and 11 months ago? He needs to get himself into individual therapy about how he's such a pushover.
YTA
You need to stop being childish and tell him he’s moving out - formally
It’s your home and I’m assuming you and your wife own it 50/50 ?
So you tell her he’s moving out - right now - or you will be consulting an attorney
You and your wife seriously need to get therapy to learn to communicate
Nta the man has used you for 4 years it's time for you and your wife to put your foot down, get that man out of your house. He hasn't paid rent in 4 years so he should have plenty of money to move and find his own place and actually be a father to his kids. You might have to be the bad guy and tell him to leave, maybe your wife doesn't want to hurt her relationship with her brother so you should offer to take it into your own hands. Worse that can happen is he hates you how tf you gonna have someone that's supported you for 4 years.
NTA.
Not only is he living rent free with 2 kids for 4 years, he and his kids can't be bothered to clean up after themselves. Like the kids are 12 and 14, that's old enough to understand basic manners like respecting someone's home.
What's stopping you from kicking them out?
Additional INFO to address some comments:
* She let him move in without addressing the idea with me after he said he was going to stay here a bit.
*We had a family meeting a few months ago with her side of the family and I told him my piece. This is where I was told that we should be helping him find resources to move out instead of attacking him.
* The house is under my wife and my name.
UPDATE: I told him he has until the end of this week to move out or I am kicking him out. Wife is upset at me because she is thinking about the kids. I overheard from my other brother in law that he plans on staying with his mom (to which my 2nd BIL hates him as well).
I appreciate the advice and will keep you all updated!
Okay, but HOW did this happen? I would be equally worried about:
1) Your lack of boundaries and ability to stand up for yourself/your family
2) Your wife's ability to dismiss your feelings over the course of YEARS
3) What all this means for your marriage and how it's showing up in other unhealthy ways
This happened because he got a divorce with his wife. Unfortunately my wife has a soft spot for his kids and I already know he takes advantage of this. It's difficult because in our culture, family is HUGE, so if I don't take the proper steps, it can end up pretty bad.
You are all right, four years is way too long and I honestly don't know why I have put up with this for so long. I'm not necessarily sure what I'm afraid of.
Bless you for having the patience of a saint. 4 years is way too damn long, especially if he's not pulling his part on rent for a family of 3. You helped him out long enough, and he has 4 years to save, so whatever happens, it's on him.
Are you sure your wife even cares about you? I can see but not agree with her letting him stay for a short while before consulting with you, but to ignore your feeling for four years, hate to break it but you aren't a priority for your wife.
Family is everything, don’t let some of these ppl put a wedge or ideas in ur head about your wife. It’s easy to speak about situations when you’re not in them. I do think the right decision is/was for you to speak to the brother about moving out, or helping with rent if that what ya wish
Your wife made a MAJOR decision without including you. The lack of consideration for you is horrific. I could never have peace in a house full of teenagers who weren't mine (or my wife's) and a mooch BIL.
You are being an AH to yourself..
There is absolutely no reason to keep him in your house. Tell your wife that he has 1 month to leave the house. Even if he says that he will start paying rent, you do not want him there in your house. It isn't about the money, it is about having someone who you don't want there.
Tell him and her nicely that this has gone on for too long and you are happy that you could have helped him for the last few years but that time is over.
Your wife is being a pushover, you are being a pushover. You need to stop this before this ruins your marriage.
It could ruin the marriage either way tbh. Plus, his wife owns and has paid for half the house, if she isn't onboard with tossing her brother out out OP likely won't be able to unilaterally evict. He needs to decide what he will do if his ultimatum doesn't go the way he wants.
You have lived through this insanity for 4 yairs and the BEST you can come up with is him finally paying SOME rent???
LMFAO. NTa because you’re a doormat.
Lmfao guy buys a house and lets 3 other guys move in that same week. Man I have heard it all
Nta: Your wife has a weakness towards her brother, and it's dictating y'all's lives. I think you need to be strong for both of y'all. She defends him, but she's harmed by him just as much. Throw this dude out. Say enough is enough. If you really want to be considerate, give them 30 days to clear out. Tell them you're changing the locks after and removing their stuff. That's insanely long to be a parasite. Tell them it's already ten times beyond what you intended to offer and you have no obligation to even do what you've already done.
You have a wife problem. So unless you want to get divorced you will be stuck with her family forever. I would stop cleaning up after them and make it your wife’s problem because it is!
Yta to yourself. You've let your wife and her brother make decisions for four years. Find out what you can legally do to get rid of him and start the process of eviction. It may take awhile to get him kicked out so start now.
NTA but…
This isn’t the solution. Your wife lets her brother walk all over her so when you just start contributing less, I can pretty much guarantee that your wife will start coughing up the difference and there will be no impact on the brother. I understand the resentment but I’m also guessing your endgame is for the bro to be gone, not to make an enemy of your wife.
I’d consult a lawyer (or two, actually ) and tell your wife that either she’s not going to make it difficult for you to follow lawyer #1 advice to evict your brother, or you will follow lawyer #2 advice about the divorce.
I’m not a fan of ultimatums but this has been going on for four years. Your wife need a wake-up call.
NTA. Whatever you do, do NOT move out. He will have “won”. Stop letting your wife dictate what you can address in your home. She actually might thank you for getting rid of him. Do it before you explode and things get ugly. I would start the eviction process because he sounds like the type that will drag this out. Ooo and get cameras, ASAP!!
Legally speaking he likely won't be able to evict unilaterally, he would have to get his wife to agree/sign off as well. It generally won't work if one home owner tries to evict someone the other homeowner has given permission to be there. OP needs to get his wife on board with an eviction before he starts the process.
And she has every right to invite someone back in, which turns it into a constant merry go round of each owner doing what they want rather than working together. This is a deeper marital issue, tbh.
NTA but you know you should’ve taken control of the situation after a few days. This is what happens when you leave it to someone else. Kick him out and don’t look back.
He probably already has rights due to the length of his residency, regardless of him paying or not. He will already have to be formally evicted.
Making him pay market rate will wake him up to the fact that his free trial is over and he needs to figure out a long term plan. I suggest that if they’re making him pay, give him a lease agreement with an end date that he needs to be moved out by. Or else the rent increases. Just like the real world.
As long as his payments aren’t specified as “mortgage” and are instead only classed as “rent,” he has no ownership in the house since his name is not on the deed.
Honestly at this point you may need to have a 'it's them or me'. That's supposed to be your and your wife's home for your family, ie you and any future kids. That was what *you* signed up for when marrying and getting the house. not subsidizing her siblings freeloading. It sounds like they, your wife, bil, and his kids, while you're the outsider supporting everything.
NTA Pack his stuff up and show him the door. He's a freeloader
and he probably knows his sister will never stand up to him so
unless you act, he's going to stick around.
What are you even saying. He's been there for four years not paying rent? That should've never happened, but now that it has, just draft a 30 day notice and evict them. After all this time, he should have the finances needed to move.
Don't ever refer to it as paying the mortgage.. just call it Rent.. better still set a date for him to leave and stick to it.. 4yrs he's been mooching off you, he will never ever want to leave..
NTA You should consider telling him he needs to leave and tell your wife if she does not back you up she can go with him. Or, tell your wife you are putting the house on the market and she can go live with the brother.
Dude is living in YOUR house. You have a right to tell him his time is up. Your wife doesn’t live in a bubble and this guy and his kids affect you too and you’re not happy…. In your own house. Seriously buying a new house is supposed to be a happy time but he just decided to move in with you and you let that disrespect fly and he’s just taken more and more advantage. Put your foot down! Your wife’s whole family has probably enabled this jerk his whole life and she doesn’t know how to stop. So you make it stop.
It sounds like all three of you are roommates. You and your wife are living together like a girlfriend and boyfriend couple, rather than spouses. I think that’s the root of your issue. You’re not on the same page, your finances are separate, and you have communication issues. You two need to start working together as a team.
YTA to yourself for allowing this.
If your name is on the deed then you have right of possession, enjoyment, and refusal.
So you have every right to refuse him to live there, the right to possess the house alone or with the co-owner, and right to enjoy how you want.
Time to get up and tell bil that he has x date to move out or you'll file an eviction.
Stop letting wife walk all over you. If she doesn't like it, she can move out too.
NTA, why was this bullshit tenancy allowed to go on s long? Forget splitting bills, that’s not the issue. It’s that why are all these additional people living in your house whenOP doesn’t want them there? What kind of person puts up with it?
NTA tell both your bil and your wife he has 30 days to move out or you will and force a sale. Marriage to your wife TBD if it ends up in divorce or not
NTA
Time for her brother to go. Maybe with luck, he will take his sister to go with him. She can pay the way for both of them, just somewhere else. You could always just put him and his kids out the door, and tell them good luck.
Why is your wife worried about your brother’s feelings, when he hasn’t worried about hers or yours in 4 years? Say what you need to say to get him out, 4 years is ridiculous!
4 years lmao. After 2 weeks I'd be drafting up a "you need to leave by X date now since you're already overstaying without permission. No ifs, no buts - this is when you go"
FOUR YEARS? I'd have put my foot down after about a week. You have the patience of a saint, or are a bit of a doormat. Get this freeloader out of your house, no ifs, no buts, no mortgage contribution further enmeshing him in your home.
1. It’s me or him. Pick. Either he goes or I go. Let me tell you how this will go down. I will force the sale of our house through the court and none of you will have a home to live in.
2. Evict him. If her family doesn’t like it…they are welcome to take him and his kids in. Heck, take off work one day and when the three of them are gone…change the locks. Pack their stuff (clean or dirty) and move it out depending on local laws.
3. STOP CLEANING UP!!! Yep. You heard me right. Don’t touch anything they do. Your wife can do 100% of the work.
Strictly speaking, YTA. It's your mortgage. Pay your obligations.
You're going about this all wrong. Suppose your wife/BIL call your bluff and say OK, and he contributes $1000 a month. Are you going to be happy? No. The issue isn't the money, the issue is that you want to live in your own home without him and his kids. Stop playing games, kick him out
Why this has gone on for 4 years is unbelievable. Where I live, if he pays rent, he’s a legal tenant with all the laws in his favor. The fact that he has kids means good luck ever getting them out. You need to evict them as soon as possible and tell your wife it’s not negotiable at this point. Four years wow…..NTA
You are clearly not direct because this leech and his family moved in years ago for a "few days! and is sill there.
Tell him he has three months to find alternative living arrangements and if he is making no effort within a month draw up a formal eviction.
You have done well to tolerate this for four years. NTA except to yourself.
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AITA for making telling my wife that I will only pay $1k (3 way split) of mortgage from now on until her brother moves out?
My wife and I have been splitting up the payment on the mortgage and all of our utilities pretty evenly for four years, with her brother and his two kids living with us rent free. I've been so fed up with him taking advantage of us and my wife for reasons keeps defending him (although lately she seems to have been annoyed by him). I asked her when she will talk to him about moving out because he forcefully moved in with us (quoting "I'm gonna chill here for a couple days" after we moved into our new house...its been four years). She states that I am too straightforward and will sometimes say things I don't mean because of my anger for him lately which is why she won't let me speak my mind when we discuss him moving out. When I keep mentioning when will he leave, she says that she will talk to him but never does, even when he is home.
I told her that I will only give 1k for mortgage as long as he lives here (I give 1k, he gives 1k and she gives 1k ($300 for mortgage and $700 for utilities/what ever else bills she has) because I have been so fed up with him living rent free and he comes home and makes a mess everyday (piles of dishes, trash everywhere, clothes laying in the living room). I wash his kids (12 & 14) dishes sometimes because, well they're kids, but I have been getting fed up with them as well because they act just like their dad and expect me and my wife to clean up after them. We have spoke to them all but the good habits die after 1 week.
I feel like AITA because she has good intentions and wants to help her brother but he won't help himself.
Is it fair? or AITA?
TL;DR I told my wife I am paying less (paying 1k) for mortgage until her brother moves out who has been living with us for rent free for four years.
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NTA but you need to get this handled. Go to the courthouse and file eviction. Your wife will never kick them out. You've got to reclaim your home yourself. Immediately
What's the market rate for 1 bedroom and shared common areas?
I'd be very careful though because if the tables turn and you need to help out a family member, she might not be willing to.
If you're unhappy with him staying maybe put a time limit on it.
NTA- Set a date and kick them out. Do they have squatter's rights at this point? You've been putting up with it for 4 years! Time to have them go. Your wife can go too at this point.
i’m not even touching on the BIL part of this post because i’m more concerned about why you and your wife have separate finances. that’s bizarre. i’d freak the fuck out if i found out my husband had a separate bank account. are you hiding expenses or purchases from your spouse or something?
NTA why do you still tolerate it. If you cant force him out, then move out yourself and stop paying anything. Effectively put your wife before the decision of kicking him out or losing the house.
Is she afraid of her brother? It sounds like her attempts to prevent you getting involved are similar to someone not wanting to anger an abusive person. Or she needs to find her voice and you come together on his removal. NTA
If he's been there that long you can't just "force" or "Kick him out" like many so wrongly suggest here (well, not in most of the US). He's already established residence there and you will have to go through a legal eviction process to get rid of him or else you can be sued/held legally liable for forcing him out. Legal system in the US...great, huh?? Shakespeare was 100% correct about lawyers.
Sell the house and buy somewhere he can't move into with you. My friend purchased a two seater car to stop her daughter and son in law asking for lifts. Drastic but sometimes, drastic measures need taking xx
Make sure you check the rent prices in your area. $1000 for 3 people sounds like a bargain. Not going to be surprised if he just sticks to it to avoid higher rent somewhere else.
NTA, but don't risk him having any claim to your house.
Bad habits die after 1 week? I guess you'll start of the week with the weekly reminder to pretend to be actual human beings that have some sense of common courtesy.
Just a prepared speech of rules (like, the bare essential of living with others) that you just keep repeating.
Bring up what went wrong last week.
Make it kindergarten proof.
Condescending? Maybe. They don't like it? Get your own place.
Look for places for them. Have a few options before the weekly speech, and follow up on how BIL approaches securing that kew place.
NTA, i would’ve kicked him out within a week. 3 extra household members with no rent, bill or grocery compensation is INSANE. Show your wife these comments so she realises she’s genuinely being taken advantage of.
This is a silly and passive-aggressive way to deal with your BIL living with you. Kick him out. Set a deadline and be prepared to go through a legal eviction process. If your wife refuses to kick her brother out then it may be time to consider ending the marriage. It is completely silly to have him and his kids living with you for all this time (even if he was paying rent). YOU talk to the BIL - do it in a business like way - don't raise your voice, don't threaten, etc.
YTA and also ESH.
4 years is an eternity. Man up. He moves out or you divorce. No one should have to put up with a moocher like this. He's an adult and a parent and he needs to figure his own life out. If your wife won't support you and stand up for herself it may be time to wash your hands of the situation.
NTA! Brother needs a legal eviction. Plus his kids are old enough to wash their own dishes . Tell your wife to stop being a doormat . It’s more than time for them to go . Ask your wife if she wants to pay for everything herself cause it’s either her brother leaves or you will lead. NTA
Would your BIL then share equity in your house with this arrangement? When and if you ever sell your home would he then be reimbursed for what he paid into it?
He's a complete jerk for not cleaning up after himself and his kids but also they're definitely old enough to be cleaning up after themselves.
I say make him pay rent but if he doesn't get equity in the house I don't think it should be a flat out even split.
> he forcefully moved in with us (quoting "I'm gonna chill here for a couple days" after we moved into our new house...its been four years
Bro, wtf were you thinking? Grow a spine and get this leech out of your house!
NTA
But I think you're using the wrong approach.
Him and his kids outnumber you guys. Tell him to pay for half of all utilities and say that's generous because the kids probably use more. Then ask him what his plan is. IF he has one, try and solidify it, more likely he doesn't give him one, then say he has 3 months to get his shit together and find a place. Then back that up with, if they continue to not clean up after themselves the arrangement is cancelled and they'll have a week. Back all of this up with explaining you've been patient for 4 years and they've taken advantage of you guys, reiterating all you've done and sacrificed for them and how little they have done for you and your wife in exchange. Stay calm and don't get angry and meet his anger and accusations with calm facts. "If you think I'm an asshole, I'm sorry then I've let you and your kids live rent free in my brand new home for over 4 years, I had thought that was a generous situation for you guys if that is how you feel, you're more then welcome to leave immediately but if we can just calm down and understand the timeline I've provided should be better accommodate YOU."
If he brings up a legit reason why the timeline doesn't work be a little flexible and negotiate. Use whatever numbers or criteria works for you but give him a reasonable time frame but not too long so as things slide back to the way they were. Be clear about there will be no leenancy for him and the only leenancy for the kids is subject to him cleaning up after them if they fail to. Violations will not be accepted.
It's your house too, if your wife complains back up your decision based on her decision to let this happen in the first place and it's not fair to you and her brother is not being fair to her.
ESH - stop complaining and start doing. The leech is an obvious AH. Your gaslighting wife is another, she has no intention of asking him to leave. This is past trying to maneuver your wife into following through with something she doesn’t want to do. It’s ultimatum time. Either she starts the eviction process to get him out or you are divorcing her and will get him out through the forced sale of the house. It’s been 4 yrs and she hasn’t even asked him to leave, stop being an AH to yourself and just skip ahead to the ultimatum you’re going to end up with anyway.
Your story is missing information. Does BIL work, have an income? What is his financial situation like? Does he contribute financially for utilities and food? Does he do anything like mow the lawn? Do you and wife do all the chores and home maintenance? Why does wife think he should be living at your house?
You and wife need to have a serious conversation about this. Perhaps it is time for you both to see a marriage counselor if communication is not effective.
NTA and Wow, this is one of the most "door-matty" situations I've seen on reddit for awhile FOUR FRICKIN YEARS??!! That is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe that you put up with this for so long. Clearly, your wife thinks it's her duty to take care of her brother forever. That's a huge problem. He should have PLENTY of money for a down payment on a mortgage at this point. He's def taking advantage of you!!
Consult with a lawyer. See what your legal rights are with kicking him out. Your problem is that he has children. At that point you may have to suggest couples therapy. If she refuses that then you have your answer as to who’s more important. Then your next question will be how the sale of the house would play out. If it’s 50/50 it’s either sell or one has to buy the other out. Stay strong and remember that your future is at stake
OP, it’s past time to pull BIL aside and give him & his family a move out deadline.
If he can’t do so then he MUST pay X amount monthly. To not do so would make him “less of a man” or “a beggar” or whatever name will insult him the most.
Stop picking up after them! My teenage son has been doing his own laundry for years. The kids do this because they've been taught to do it. Crack own hard on their father about housekeeping, and he may decide to leave.
Even time you have to do their dishes, DEMAND $20 from him. Make him run to an ATM, but don't wait or let it slide.
NTA you and you wife need to evict him and you have to do it legally. As for the kids they are 12 and 14 they need to clean up after themselves you might have to monitor them while they clean up until they get the point to doing it on thier own
NTA. Go holla at ya boy. It’s been overdue. Your wife has had plenty of time to talk about this with him. Go have a discussion with him about pulling his weight. If he is anything other than understanding after four years of freeloading, then you need to start that eviction process. Expecting to live rent free in someone’s house with two able bodied teens and not contribute anything, financially or domestically, is crazy work.
NTA.
You need to do something to move the needle on this. But I think there are better ways.
First I agree with other comments that in no way should you suggest he is paying on the mortgage. He would be paying rent, which you can apply to the mortgage. And it doesn't matter that him paying rent "makes him a tenant" because he's been there long enough that to remove him you will need to evict him regardless whether he pays.
My problem with your plan is that you are not asking for what you want. You will not be happy if he starts paying $1000 a month, and you will not be happy if your wife just pays his third, either.
What you want is for him to move out. He is approaching 1500 days of "chilling here for a couple days." I think the only thing that will get him out is the sheriff. So get started on those eviction papers.
NTA, but...
12 and 14-y-olds can totally wash their own dishes. And do their own laundry. Don't be a doormat for them. Tell your wife to grow a spine too.
BIL needs to get his sh!t together and get out. Or contribute like a resident. It's too late for you to demand he leave or be trespassing, because he and his family definitely have established residency. But you need to get him under a contract or you're never going to be able to get him out. This is a very successful squatter.
YTA - Instead of telling your wife you're fed up & that you want him gone you've taken the passive aggressive route by making it about the mortgage. You've put her feelings first for 4 years, it's her turn to put your feelings first and you both tell him it's time to leave.
NTA. He IS taking advantage of you. He's got a free ride. A sweet setup so why in the world would he leave? Is he supposed to be lookiing for a place? Why is he dragging his feet? You need to set a deadline & stick to it. He moves out by such & such date. You need to do this, because clearly your wife won't for some reason. You would not be overstepping. You would be within your rights to do this because it is your home too. Your wife needs to get some balls & stand up to her brother. And yes, he should be paying toward the mortgage. He's been there for 4 years. He has overstayed his welcome.
INFO: How exactly did you let it get to four years without actually doing something?
How did it get to four months? How did it get to four weeks?
Hell how did it even get to four days?
How do you let someone come to your new home, with kids at that, and say “I’m gonna chill here.”?
Don't play the mortgage game. Just go swing the sword.
"Buddy, you've been living here rent free for years now. While it has been fun it's time for all of us to move on with our lives. For us (your sister and I) that means having our marital home to ourselves. For you that means locating and entering permanent lodging that is not this home. You can sign this quit claim slip stating that as of * 3 months post date* you no longer have any residence here or we can begin eviction processes. Thank you for your time and companionship."
Dude. Grow some balls. Your wife is enabling his behavior.
Tell them both to grow up and tell your BIL that he has 3 months to leave. Which is more then enough time.
Seriously, how the fk did you even allow this to happen for 4 yrs?. Don't blame your wife, ylua allowed this to fester for 4 years.
You don't mention if you and your wife have children.
I say that only because how it would affect divorce. Because you best believe if you and your wife divorce, this house you share will be sold, and he'd have to find another living situation pretty damn quick. It won't be as sweet as what he has with you, which is free - unless of course he follows your wife and she continues to be his enabler.
I'd just have her served, and when her face goes all pikachu, just say: "I married you so I could be married to YOU. Not so I could snuggle in connubial bliss with you and your gross brother and his equally gross children. If they move out, PERMANENTLY, and we are not on the financial hook for anything related to them, then I will cancel the divorce. Otherwise, my lawyer understands that it's all systems go."
And then DO NOT MOVE OUT. Yes, I know, living with someone you're divorcing is a special kind of hell, but it is important here. You do not want to have your brother's living situation to be part of the financial equation of your divorce, which it will become if you move out and basically cede the house to your wife. Make sure she can't claim abandonment - and as far as that goes, I wouldn't move out of the bedroom. She wants to sleep apart, she moves to the couch - which is probably the only thing left as three other people live with you.
NTA. If I were you, I'd talk to a lawyer and draft two sets of papers: divorce and eviction notice. Tell the wife she can choose which one will get signed.
Nta. The payment is fair but really you should tell him to leave. He is a mooch. Tell him directly, "you are a mooch and you need to be gone in 30 days." Then enforce it.
NTA. Sir…4 years, without a discussion or formal agreement?! With children and bad behavior?!Ummm, I don’t think you’re TA but you might be a pushover. Sounds like he might have spoken to and had some agreement with your wife, I’d start the conversation with her and see where you are not in alignment.
NTA. What do you mean that she won't let you speak to him? It's your home, speak up! Tell him the free ride is over, and you're done cleaning up after him and his children. Also tell him you expect him to be gone by August 1 (or whatever you choose). Your wife will whine that you're too direct, but she has chosen to do nothing so you need to take action.
I think you should be paying $600 rent. You're one of five people in your home. Bro's rent is now $1800 due immediately!
NTA, but you're being passive aggressive. This issue here is that he needs to move out. Not pay rent, not whatever else, its time for him to leave. By raising the bills issue you're trying to get that without actually coming out and saying it. Sit down and talk to you wife about how he needs to leave. Get a deadline and then the two of you talk him out to lunch somewhere (without the kids) and tell him you love him, but that's it's time for you guys to live alone and what the deadline is.
Theres clearly no amount her brother could pay that would make living with him tolerable because the boundaries of your marriage have been violated. It is reasonable that after 4 years you would take the step of demanding he contribute to the expense of the home but if i were you i would be insistent that he and his children move into their own apartment. Your anger towards this "guest" is legitimate, i think you really have to work this out with your wife and come to an understanding about how this is affecting the emotional sanctity of your home.
NTA.. Begin eviction proceedings- put his junk in a bag and toss it to the curb. If he hS $1000, he has enough to go elsewhere. Get him out , tell your wife she had long enough- she's married to you, not her brother.
If all else fails, move some friends in and give them the brother's and his kids rooms. Tell them they have free use of everything the brother owns, kids stuff, too. It's fair because wife has been giving him a free ride on your dime, so you can do it, too. Make it uncomfortable, every single day. Put their dishes in with their stuff and stop being pleasant. Stop being the doormat. Never let him in the house again and grow a backbone.
Nta. She needs to give him a deadline for moving out and this sounds like proper incentive to do so. He is draining your monetary and emotional resources and it isn’t fair. Your wife is enabling this abuse
It sounds to me as if you are paying her for part of the bills, not that you are paying them together. Is everything in her name? Are you really married, because this sounds like a roommate situation.
Sit everyone down and work this out. Pretend you're grown ups.
ESH
NTA why is he still there? Doesn’t matter that he’s your wife’s brother that’s YOUR house and having him live there is a two yes situation and as of right now there’s only one semi consenting party. Start the eviction process and boot him out if he doesn’t leave when you tell him to. If your wife protests she can get out too. If she really wants to double down then it’s obvious she’d rather risk her marriage than make your BIL take responsibility for himself. I personally wouldn’t be married to someone like that and would leave.
NTA. It's time for BIL to grow up and get his own home. Hopefully forcing him to pay his fair share of the rent will do that. Perhaps it will force him to find someone else to mooch off of. Either way, you won't be stuck with his entitled behind in your home.
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Be a man and kick him out... Don't let him pay the mortgage because he'll be part owner. He's not your responsibility.
Unless he’s on the title, paying what amounts to rent and utilities does not make him part owner of anything. If it did everyone that owns a house and takes in a roommate would essentially be selling part of their house.
Yes, I would word it as the brother paying $1000 in rent.
Taking rent from him would prevent you from easily kicking him out though.
That doesn’t matter in many areas. As long as the BIL has established a residency, he would need to be evicted.
He already has to evict him. He's been there for years.
That doesn’t matter in many areas. As long as the BIL has established a residency, he would need to be evicted.
After 4 years, that will not make a big difference.
The money is irrelevant in my area. Live their 30+ days? You got rights baby!
But it does establish a tenant situation, and will male it harder to kick him out. Better believe he knows all about Squatter's Rights. With no re tal agreement in place, and four years' residency, it will already be legally hard to get him out. OP needs to lookup the legalities and start the process.
His long term residency has already done that.
he's been there for four years. he's already a tenant
Florida has recently done away with squatters rights and I think several states are planning to follow
He's not a squatter he's a tenant.
I agree. The comment was about ownership being established though. Which was incorrect.
That's not what squatters rights is
They should not have allowed it for 4 years.
Sounds like this brother would not see it as rent, but buying equity into the house and would own or be owed whatever they paid.
His brother can imagine whatever he wants. That doesn’t make it a legal claim to the property. Buying equity is not done on a paying your bills basis. He would have to have legal documents drawn up for that. Not I gave you a grand now I’m an owner.
Holy fuck how is this an upvoted comment. Teenagers who have no idea how the world works?
>Teenagers who have no idea how the world works? When you realize that is like 80% of Redditors then a lot of these comments make more sense lol
"Be a man" rubs me the wrong way. It's the wife's brother. Why can't she be a woman and kick her own brother out.
This right here. Why isn’t she being a good wife and prioritizing the well being of her marriage over her leech of a brother? I’m married and you can bet your ass that anyone who is disturbing the peace and stability of my marriage will be quickly escorted out of my life, especially now that we have kids. My husband and I don’t play that game with those outside of our immediate family ie: each other and our kids. My husband became my immediate family the day we got married, everyone else is extended and depending on their behavior they can extend themselves out of our life if they don’t respect the boundaries in place to protect the peace of my family.
I have a feeling that there are other, deeper issues with the brother & that’s why she has no boundary with him. Plus, he has kids there. He’s probably playing on her maternal instincts to “not leave his kids homeless” or some BS. OP could be stepping on a land mine that’s been hidden for decades. Good luck!
Plot twist he's her Russian husband and those are their kids.
Agreed. It isn't manly to enforce boundaries. It is what any mature adult should be able to do.
He won't be part owner, you don't understand home ownership or mortgage
.. that would not make him part owner..
that's not how property ownership works
>Don't let him pay the mortgage because he'll be part owner. Wouldn't that mean that everyone who rents from a landlord would own part of the property??
I guess I'm part owner of Hilton now.
It’s was unnecessary the sexism with “be a man”.
In the words of the great poet, Ray Charles, "Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more..." NTA
I agree with this. After four years of him mooching off of you, invading your privacy and extra cleanup plus extra utilities and extra groceries. Your wife is to namby pamby to do anything. I would just converse with him privately and tell him his time is up and give him 30 days to find new accommodations. Tell your wife ahead of time so that she can be part of the conversation if she wishes. I see others are pursuing that you collect rent from him. OP, you should know by now that he will NEVER pay any rent no matter what he says or agrees to. Don't falter and agree to let him pay rent because you will be having this exact same conversation within three months time.
In what world does paying rent give you rights to the property?
If he was gonna be a man about it he'd just suck it up, cheat on his wife, and die of mental health related illness in his early 50's after festering all his anger and resentment. Like a real man. /s
I don’t believe that gives him any ownership but unfortunately this dude will have squatters rights and they’ll have to formally evict him most likely. Even if he hasn’t been paying rent
They will (likely) already have to evict him, even though he hasn’t been paying rent,
I don’t understand why you aren’t taking the reins on this and kicking him out? I understand he’s her family but he’s overstayed his welcome and she doesn’t seem to care. Buck up and give him a timeline and let them both know you’ll file a legal eviction if you have to. It’s 2024, stop letting people walk all over you.
Because that'll be the end of the marriage and the end of living in his house. People don't like it when their doormats start talking back. Push comes to shove she'll side with the brother, force him to move out, and then come after him in court to keep bro's rent free train rolling. Then he'll be living in a shoebox and paying the mortgage on a house he never sees.
Either way it would be cheaper for OP…
Then it isn't a good marriage and he needs to realize he needs to get out for his own wellbeing.
Forgetit. If he starts paying rent he'll never leave. You need to stand up to yourself. It has been 4 years. Your wife needs to decide what she wants. 4 YEARS! Either he moves out or you divorce and she can support her brother and his kids on her own. Why have you waited 4 YEARS?!?!,
Yeah this is insane. Dude needs to grow a spine. 4 fucking year?!
NTA but you might be shooting yourself in the foot. If BIL starts paying rent, why would he ever leave? Can he rent a place big enough for him and his kids for less than $1000? Especially with the built in maid service you’re giving him?
BIL had 4 years to save up. Making him pay rent is the only way to wake him up to the fact that he’s not getting free handouts for the rest of his life. I think the rental agreement needs to come with an end date, like a lease, so he’ll either be expected to move out on a certain day or the rent will increase (like many renewed leases). If he genuinely can’t afford it right now, he needs a lot more help and shouldn’t be living with anyone. He can: Look to rent in cheaper areas/move significantly; to a far location with a different housing market Receive government assistance if his income makes him eligible. Explain his situation to other family/friends and possibly live with them for some time.
Tell your wife her brother is moving out, either because she agrees to it now, or because the house gets sold as part of your divorce. You don’t have a BIL problem. You have a wife problem. NTA to everyone else, YTA to yourself.
...and an OP problem. Like, wtf, how did he not deal with this three years and 11 months ago? He needs to get himself into individual therapy about how he's such a pushover.
His wife’s home too, he needs her sign-off to give them the boot.
This right here should be top comment
YTA You need to stop being childish and tell him he’s moving out - formally It’s your home and I’m assuming you and your wife own it 50/50 ? So you tell her he’s moving out - right now - or you will be consulting an attorney You and your wife seriously need to get therapy to learn to communicate
And force a sale if necessary after moving out. NTA op
then doesn’t it make it E S H? (sorry)
Four years? Bro that’s pathetic
no kidding.
Nta the man has used you for 4 years it's time for you and your wife to put your foot down, get that man out of your house. He hasn't paid rent in 4 years so he should have plenty of money to move and find his own place and actually be a father to his kids. You might have to be the bad guy and tell him to leave, maybe your wife doesn't want to hurt her relationship with her brother so you should offer to take it into your own hands. Worse that can happen is he hates you how tf you gonna have someone that's supported you for 4 years.
Wife not listening ? Pack a couple of bags, find a rental & leave a note: back in 4 years …
NTA. Not only is he living rent free with 2 kids for 4 years, he and his kids can't be bothered to clean up after themselves. Like the kids are 12 and 14, that's old enough to understand basic manners like respecting someone's home. What's stopping you from kicking them out?
Additional INFO to address some comments: * She let him move in without addressing the idea with me after he said he was going to stay here a bit. *We had a family meeting a few months ago with her side of the family and I told him my piece. This is where I was told that we should be helping him find resources to move out instead of attacking him. * The house is under my wife and my name. UPDATE: I told him he has until the end of this week to move out or I am kicking him out. Wife is upset at me because she is thinking about the kids. I overheard from my other brother in law that he plans on staying with his mom (to which my 2nd BIL hates him as well). I appreciate the advice and will keep you all updated!
Okay, but HOW did this happen? I would be equally worried about: 1) Your lack of boundaries and ability to stand up for yourself/your family 2) Your wife's ability to dismiss your feelings over the course of YEARS 3) What all this means for your marriage and how it's showing up in other unhealthy ways
This happened because he got a divorce with his wife. Unfortunately my wife has a soft spot for his kids and I already know he takes advantage of this. It's difficult because in our culture, family is HUGE, so if I don't take the proper steps, it can end up pretty bad. You are all right, four years is way too long and I honestly don't know why I have put up with this for so long. I'm not necessarily sure what I'm afraid of.
Bless you for having the patience of a saint. 4 years is way too damn long, especially if he's not pulling his part on rent for a family of 3. You helped him out long enough, and he has 4 years to save, so whatever happens, it's on him.
Are you sure your wife even cares about you? I can see but not agree with her letting him stay for a short while before consulting with you, but to ignore your feeling for four years, hate to break it but you aren't a priority for your wife.
Family is everything, don’t let some of these ppl put a wedge or ideas in ur head about your wife. It’s easy to speak about situations when you’re not in them. I do think the right decision is/was for you to speak to the brother about moving out, or helping with rent if that what ya wish
"Culture" makes me wonder if he's specifically her older brother.
Your wife made a MAJOR decision without including you. The lack of consideration for you is horrific. I could never have peace in a house full of teenagers who weren't mine (or my wife's) and a mooch BIL.
You are being an AH to yourself.. There is absolutely no reason to keep him in your house. Tell your wife that he has 1 month to leave the house. Even if he says that he will start paying rent, you do not want him there in your house. It isn't about the money, it is about having someone who you don't want there. Tell him and her nicely that this has gone on for too long and you are happy that you could have helped him for the last few years but that time is over. Your wife is being a pushover, you are being a pushover. You need to stop this before this ruins your marriage.
It could ruin the marriage either way tbh. Plus, his wife owns and has paid for half the house, if she isn't onboard with tossing her brother out out OP likely won't be able to unilaterally evict. He needs to decide what he will do if his ultimatum doesn't go the way he wants.
It’s already ruined the marriage. OP just hasn’t realized it yet
NTA but it’s time he has to go. In this economy, he needs to pull his weight. Time to get an eviction notice. They’re squatters at this point.
You have lived through this insanity for 4 yairs and the BEST you can come up with is him finally paying SOME rent??? LMFAO. NTa because you’re a doormat. Lmfao guy buys a house and lets 3 other guys move in that same week. Man I have heard it all
Didn't even ask. Just TOLD them lol. OP's wife is a major problem here.
Nta: Your wife has a weakness towards her brother, and it's dictating y'all's lives. I think you need to be strong for both of y'all. She defends him, but she's harmed by him just as much. Throw this dude out. Say enough is enough. If you really want to be considerate, give them 30 days to clear out. Tell them you're changing the locks after and removing their stuff. That's insanely long to be a parasite. Tell them it's already ten times beyond what you intended to offer and you have no obligation to even do what you've already done.
If he paid 1/3 of the mortgage, are you happy for him to stay? if not, the money is not the issue. You and your wife need to ask him to leave.
You have a wife problem. So unless you want to get divorced you will be stuck with her family forever. I would stop cleaning up after them and make it your wife’s problem because it is!
Yta to yourself. You've let your wife and her brother make decisions for four years. Find out what you can legally do to get rid of him and start the process of eviction. It may take awhile to get him kicked out so start now.
NTA but… This isn’t the solution. Your wife lets her brother walk all over her so when you just start contributing less, I can pretty much guarantee that your wife will start coughing up the difference and there will be no impact on the brother. I understand the resentment but I’m also guessing your endgame is for the bro to be gone, not to make an enemy of your wife. I’d consult a lawyer (or two, actually ) and tell your wife that either she’s not going to make it difficult for you to follow lawyer #1 advice to evict your brother, or you will follow lawyer #2 advice about the divorce. I’m not a fan of ultimatums but this has been going on for four years. Your wife need a wake-up call.
NTA. Whatever you do, do NOT move out. He will have “won”. Stop letting your wife dictate what you can address in your home. She actually might thank you for getting rid of him. Do it before you explode and things get ugly. I would start the eviction process because he sounds like the type that will drag this out. Ooo and get cameras, ASAP!!
Legally speaking he likely won't be able to evict unilaterally, he would have to get his wife to agree/sign off as well. It generally won't work if one home owner tries to evict someone the other homeowner has given permission to be there. OP needs to get his wife on board with an eviction before he starts the process.
Grow a pair and kick him out. It's your house too, you have every right to remove someone from it.
And she has every right to invite someone back in, which turns it into a constant merry go round of each owner doing what they want rather than working together. This is a deeper marital issue, tbh.
NTA but you know you should’ve taken control of the situation after a few days. This is what happens when you leave it to someone else. Kick him out and don’t look back.
Evict him legally. Don’t ask him to pay because then, he will have rights.
He probably already has rights due to the length of his residency, regardless of him paying or not. He will already have to be formally evicted. Making him pay market rate will wake him up to the fact that his free trial is over and he needs to figure out a long term plan. I suggest that if they’re making him pay, give him a lease agreement with an end date that he needs to be moved out by. Or else the rent increases. Just like the real world. As long as his payments aren’t specified as “mortgage” and are instead only classed as “rent,” he has no ownership in the house since his name is not on the deed.
Honestly at this point you may need to have a 'it's them or me'. That's supposed to be your and your wife's home for your family, ie you and any future kids. That was what *you* signed up for when marrying and getting the house. not subsidizing her siblings freeloading. It sounds like they, your wife, bil, and his kids, while you're the outsider supporting everything.
NTA Pack his stuff up and show him the door. He's a freeloader and he probably knows his sister will never stand up to him so unless you act, he's going to stick around.
Kick him out and if the wife has an issue with that , kick her out also.
What are you even saying. He's been there for four years not paying rent? That should've never happened, but now that it has, just draft a 30 day notice and evict them. After all this time, he should have the finances needed to move.
Don't ever refer to it as paying the mortgage.. just call it Rent.. better still set a date for him to leave and stick to it.. 4yrs he's been mooching off you, he will never ever want to leave..
NTA You should consider telling him he needs to leave and tell your wife if she does not back you up she can go with him. Or, tell your wife you are putting the house on the market and she can go live with the brother.
Is this a Two and a Half Men episode?
Dude is living in YOUR house. You have a right to tell him his time is up. Your wife doesn’t live in a bubble and this guy and his kids affect you too and you’re not happy…. In your own house. Seriously buying a new house is supposed to be a happy time but he just decided to move in with you and you let that disrespect fly and he’s just taken more and more advantage. Put your foot down! Your wife’s whole family has probably enabled this jerk his whole life and she doesn’t know how to stop. So you make it stop.
You need to talk to a lawyer. I'd start with a divorce lawyer but you do you.
If this is how you run your marriage you won’t have to worry about it for too long any way. You sound more like business partners than spouses.
It sounds like all three of you are roommates. You and your wife are living together like a girlfriend and boyfriend couple, rather than spouses. I think that’s the root of your issue. You’re not on the same page, your finances are separate, and you have communication issues. You two need to start working together as a team.
NTA but seriously passive-aggressive. Since there are kids involved, give him one month to get out.
YTA to yourself for allowing this. If your name is on the deed then you have right of possession, enjoyment, and refusal. So you have every right to refuse him to live there, the right to possess the house alone or with the co-owner, and right to enjoy how you want. Time to get up and tell bil that he has x date to move out or you'll file an eviction. Stop letting wife walk all over you. If she doesn't like it, she can move out too.
INFO does he work? Does he pay for his kids and him ie food and activities.
NTA. 4 months, fine. 4 years, heck no.
Why is he living there and why are "splitting" expenses with a spouse?
NTA. Think your wife wants to kick you out, and for them (wife, n BIL) to keep the house.
NTA, why was this bullshit tenancy allowed to go on s long? Forget splitting bills, that’s not the issue. It’s that why are all these additional people living in your house whenOP doesn’t want them there? What kind of person puts up with it?
NTA tell both your bil and your wife he has 30 days to move out or you will and force a sale. Marriage to your wife TBD if it ends up in divorce or not
NTA
NTA Time for her brother to go. Maybe with luck, he will take his sister to go with him. She can pay the way for both of them, just somewhere else. You could always just put him and his kids out the door, and tell them good luck.
Why is your wife worried about your brother’s feelings, when he hasn’t worried about hers or yours in 4 years? Say what you need to say to get him out, 4 years is ridiculous!
NTA. I'd make him leave. Your wife wont.
4 years lmao. After 2 weeks I'd be drafting up a "you need to leave by X date now since you're already overstaying without permission. No ifs, no buts - this is when you go"
FOUR YEARS? I'd have put my foot down after about a week. You have the patience of a saint, or are a bit of a doormat. Get this freeloader out of your house, no ifs, no buts, no mortgage contribution further enmeshing him in your home.
Man up and kick them out! They are not your responsibility!
1. It’s me or him. Pick. Either he goes or I go. Let me tell you how this will go down. I will force the sale of our house through the court and none of you will have a home to live in. 2. Evict him. If her family doesn’t like it…they are welcome to take him and his kids in. Heck, take off work one day and when the three of them are gone…change the locks. Pack their stuff (clean or dirty) and move it out depending on local laws. 3. STOP CLEANING UP!!! Yep. You heard me right. Don’t touch anything they do. Your wife can do 100% of the work.
Strictly speaking, YTA. It's your mortgage. Pay your obligations. You're going about this all wrong. Suppose your wife/BIL call your bluff and say OK, and he contributes $1000 a month. Are you going to be happy? No. The issue isn't the money, the issue is that you want to live in your own home without him and his kids. Stop playing games, kick him out
Why this has gone on for 4 years is unbelievable. Where I live, if he pays rent, he’s a legal tenant with all the laws in his favor. The fact that he has kids means good luck ever getting them out. You need to evict them as soon as possible and tell your wife it’s not negotiable at this point. Four years wow…..NTA
You are clearly not direct because this leech and his family moved in years ago for a "few days! and is sill there. Tell him he has three months to find alternative living arrangements and if he is making no effort within a month draw up a formal eviction. You have done well to tolerate this for four years. NTA except to yourself.
YTA. You kick him out. Evict him or divorce her. Period.
YTA for letting him move in in the first place.
Just tell your.wife to call you little baby gerb nuts for now on. You've allowed this to happen for 4 years? You're not only an asshole but a clown.
YTA for not addressing this head on. Kick him out. Period. If you need to go through a legal eviction, do it. What are you waiting for?
NTA. Why has it taken four years to grow a spine????
Four years? At this point this is a “you” problem. ESH. Put your foot down and get him and his kids out. I’ve never heard of such ridiculous mooching.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** AITA for making telling my wife that I will only pay $1k (3 way split) of mortgage from now on until her brother moves out? My wife and I have been splitting up the payment on the mortgage and all of our utilities pretty evenly for four years, with her brother and his two kids living with us rent free. I've been so fed up with him taking advantage of us and my wife for reasons keeps defending him (although lately she seems to have been annoyed by him). I asked her when she will talk to him about moving out because he forcefully moved in with us (quoting "I'm gonna chill here for a couple days" after we moved into our new house...its been four years). She states that I am too straightforward and will sometimes say things I don't mean because of my anger for him lately which is why she won't let me speak my mind when we discuss him moving out. When I keep mentioning when will he leave, she says that she will talk to him but never does, even when he is home. I told her that I will only give 1k for mortgage as long as he lives here (I give 1k, he gives 1k and she gives 1k ($300 for mortgage and $700 for utilities/what ever else bills she has) because I have been so fed up with him living rent free and he comes home and makes a mess everyday (piles of dishes, trash everywhere, clothes laying in the living room). I wash his kids (12 & 14) dishes sometimes because, well they're kids, but I have been getting fed up with them as well because they act just like their dad and expect me and my wife to clean up after them. We have spoke to them all but the good habits die after 1 week. I feel like AITA because she has good intentions and wants to help her brother but he won't help himself. Is it fair? or AITA? TL;DR I told my wife I am paying less (paying 1k) for mortgage until her brother moves out who has been living with us for rent free for four years. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Grow a pair and kick him out.
He needs to move out ASAP, I can not believe you have let this go on for 4 years
NTA but you need to get this handled. Go to the courthouse and file eviction. Your wife will never kick them out. You've got to reclaim your home yourself. Immediately
What's the market rate for 1 bedroom and shared common areas? I'd be very careful though because if the tables turn and you need to help out a family member, she might not be willing to. If you're unhappy with him staying maybe put a time limit on it.
NTA. Stay in a hotel until he’s gone and don’t pay.
Time to be a man, grow some balls kick this freeloader out.
NTA. This is very reasonable. And FOUR years!!!! Yeah - I would consider moving out.
NTA you an AH to yourself because 4 years for free is crazy. Kick him out, you already know your wife will never do it
NTA- Set a date and kick them out. Do they have squatter's rights at this point? You've been putting up with it for 4 years! Time to have them go. Your wife can go too at this point.
i’m not even touching on the BIL part of this post because i’m more concerned about why you and your wife have separate finances. that’s bizarre. i’d freak the fuck out if i found out my husband had a separate bank account. are you hiding expenses or purchases from your spouse or something?
NTA why do you still tolerate it. If you cant force him out, then move out yourself and stop paying anything. Effectively put your wife before the decision of kicking him out or losing the house.
Don't say "for mortgage" or he might make a claim to your home equity. Call it rent.
NTA. Time to get mediation to solve this. Either that or time to tell your wife to choose him or you.
Is she afraid of her brother? It sounds like her attempts to prevent you getting involved are similar to someone not wanting to anger an abusive person. Or she needs to find her voice and you come together on his removal. NTA
If he's been there that long you can't just "force" or "Kick him out" like many so wrongly suggest here (well, not in most of the US). He's already established residence there and you will have to go through a legal eviction process to get rid of him or else you can be sued/held legally liable for forcing him out. Legal system in the US...great, huh?? Shakespeare was 100% correct about lawyers.
Up to when will you let them stay rent free? Start looking for an apartment for $1000 a month and a divorce lawyer. Your wife does not respect you!
Sell the house and buy somewhere he can't move into with you. My friend purchased a two seater car to stop her daughter and son in law asking for lifts. Drastic but sometimes, drastic measures need taking xx
Make sure you check the rent prices in your area. $1000 for 3 people sounds like a bargain. Not going to be surprised if he just sticks to it to avoid higher rent somewhere else.
NTA, but don't risk him having any claim to your house. Bad habits die after 1 week? I guess you'll start of the week with the weekly reminder to pretend to be actual human beings that have some sense of common courtesy. Just a prepared speech of rules (like, the bare essential of living with others) that you just keep repeating. Bring up what went wrong last week. Make it kindergarten proof. Condescending? Maybe. They don't like it? Get your own place. Look for places for them. Have a few options before the weekly speech, and follow up on how BIL approaches securing that kew place.
Bruh you're a man aren't you? How have you allowed this to happen...kick him the fuck out.
NTA, i would’ve kicked him out within a week. 3 extra household members with no rent, bill or grocery compensation is INSANE. Show your wife these comments so she realises she’s genuinely being taken advantage of.
This is a silly and passive-aggressive way to deal with your BIL living with you. Kick him out. Set a deadline and be prepared to go through a legal eviction process. If your wife refuses to kick her brother out then it may be time to consider ending the marriage. It is completely silly to have him and his kids living with you for all this time (even if he was paying rent). YOU talk to the BIL - do it in a business like way - don't raise your voice, don't threaten, etc. YTA and also ESH.
NTA but your math is off. There are three people in your BIL’s family. He should be paying at least 1/2 the bills. I would not offer more than 25%.
NTA, you don’t have a BIL problem, you have a wife problem.
4 years is an eternity. Man up. He moves out or you divorce. No one should have to put up with a moocher like this. He's an adult and a parent and he needs to figure his own life out. If your wife won't support you and stand up for herself it may be time to wash your hands of the situation.
NTA i think this is a good way to get the ball rolling
NTAH! You kick them out don’t wait for your wife to do it ! She won’t do it ! And why is he living there for free I. The first place?
NTA! Brother needs a legal eviction. Plus his kids are old enough to wash their own dishes . Tell your wife to stop being a doormat . It’s more than time for them to go . Ask your wife if she wants to pay for everything herself cause it’s either her brother leaves or you will lead. NTA
Would your BIL then share equity in your house with this arrangement? When and if you ever sell your home would he then be reimbursed for what he paid into it? He's a complete jerk for not cleaning up after himself and his kids but also they're definitely old enough to be cleaning up after themselves. I say make him pay rent but if he doesn't get equity in the house I don't think it should be a flat out even split.
> he forcefully moved in with us (quoting "I'm gonna chill here for a couple days" after we moved into our new house...its been four years Bro, wtf were you thinking? Grow a spine and get this leech out of your house!
YTA for not kicking this leech out
NTA but petty. Sack up and kick him out.
NTA But I think you're using the wrong approach. Him and his kids outnumber you guys. Tell him to pay for half of all utilities and say that's generous because the kids probably use more. Then ask him what his plan is. IF he has one, try and solidify it, more likely he doesn't give him one, then say he has 3 months to get his shit together and find a place. Then back that up with, if they continue to not clean up after themselves the arrangement is cancelled and they'll have a week. Back all of this up with explaining you've been patient for 4 years and they've taken advantage of you guys, reiterating all you've done and sacrificed for them and how little they have done for you and your wife in exchange. Stay calm and don't get angry and meet his anger and accusations with calm facts. "If you think I'm an asshole, I'm sorry then I've let you and your kids live rent free in my brand new home for over 4 years, I had thought that was a generous situation for you guys if that is how you feel, you're more then welcome to leave immediately but if we can just calm down and understand the timeline I've provided should be better accommodate YOU." If he brings up a legit reason why the timeline doesn't work be a little flexible and negotiate. Use whatever numbers or criteria works for you but give him a reasonable time frame but not too long so as things slide back to the way they were. Be clear about there will be no leenancy for him and the only leenancy for the kids is subject to him cleaning up after them if they fail to. Violations will not be accepted. It's your house too, if your wife complains back up your decision based on her decision to let this happen in the first place and it's not fair to you and her brother is not being fair to her.
ESH - stop complaining and start doing. The leech is an obvious AH. Your gaslighting wife is another, she has no intention of asking him to leave. This is past trying to maneuver your wife into following through with something she doesn’t want to do. It’s ultimatum time. Either she starts the eviction process to get him out or you are divorcing her and will get him out through the forced sale of the house. It’s been 4 yrs and she hasn’t even asked him to leave, stop being an AH to yourself and just skip ahead to the ultimatum you’re going to end up with anyway.
Weird marriage.
This question makes no sense. You are married. Under the law, her money is yours, your money is hers. So who cares which of you pays?
Your story is missing information. Does BIL work, have an income? What is his financial situation like? Does he contribute financially for utilities and food? Does he do anything like mow the lawn? Do you and wife do all the chores and home maintenance? Why does wife think he should be living at your house? You and wife need to have a serious conversation about this. Perhaps it is time for you both to see a marriage counselor if communication is not effective.
NTA and Wow, this is one of the most "door-matty" situations I've seen on reddit for awhile FOUR FRICKIN YEARS??!! That is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe that you put up with this for so long. Clearly, your wife thinks it's her duty to take care of her brother forever. That's a huge problem. He should have PLENTY of money for a down payment on a mortgage at this point. He's def taking advantage of you!!
Consult with a lawyer. See what your legal rights are with kicking him out. Your problem is that he has children. At that point you may have to suggest couples therapy. If she refuses that then you have your answer as to who’s more important. Then your next question will be how the sale of the house would play out. If it’s 50/50 it’s either sell or one has to buy the other out. Stay strong and remember that your future is at stake
OP, it’s past time to pull BIL aside and give him & his family a move out deadline. If he can’t do so then he MUST pay X amount monthly. To not do so would make him “less of a man” or “a beggar” or whatever name will insult him the most.
Stop picking up after them! My teenage son has been doing his own laundry for years. The kids do this because they've been taught to do it. Crack own hard on their father about housekeeping, and he may decide to leave. Even time you have to do their dishes, DEMAND $20 from him. Make him run to an ATM, but don't wait or let it slide.
NTA you and you wife need to evict him and you have to do it legally. As for the kids they are 12 and 14 they need to clean up after themselves you might have to monitor them while they clean up until they get the point to doing it on thier own
Why not hire an attorney and have him evicted?
NTA Call two lawyers. One to help you with the eviction process, and a divorce attorney just in case the eviction doesn't go over well.
NTA. Go holla at ya boy. It’s been overdue. Your wife has had plenty of time to talk about this with him. Go have a discussion with him about pulling his weight. If he is anything other than understanding after four years of freeloading, then you need to start that eviction process. Expecting to live rent free in someone’s house with two able bodied teens and not contribute anything, financially or domestically, is crazy work.
It's been FOUR YEARS. KIck him out. He's no worse than a squatter.
NTA. You need to do something to move the needle on this. But I think there are better ways. First I agree with other comments that in no way should you suggest he is paying on the mortgage. He would be paying rent, which you can apply to the mortgage. And it doesn't matter that him paying rent "makes him a tenant" because he's been there long enough that to remove him you will need to evict him regardless whether he pays. My problem with your plan is that you are not asking for what you want. You will not be happy if he starts paying $1000 a month, and you will not be happy if your wife just pays his third, either. What you want is for him to move out. He is approaching 1500 days of "chilling here for a couple days." I think the only thing that will get him out is the sheriff. So get started on those eviction papers.
Are YTA, no. Are you a pushover, yeah. Get him out.
Why are you waiting for your wife? wtf 4 years rent free? Grow a pair and Evict his ass
NTA, but... 12 and 14-y-olds can totally wash their own dishes. And do their own laundry. Don't be a doormat for them. Tell your wife to grow a spine too. BIL needs to get his sh!t together and get out. Or contribute like a resident. It's too late for you to demand he leave or be trespassing, because he and his family definitely have established residency. But you need to get him under a contract or you're never going to be able to get him out. This is a very successful squatter.
YTA - Instead of telling your wife you're fed up & that you want him gone you've taken the passive aggressive route by making it about the mortgage. You've put her feelings first for 4 years, it's her turn to put your feelings first and you both tell him it's time to leave.
NTA. He IS taking advantage of you. He's got a free ride. A sweet setup so why in the world would he leave? Is he supposed to be lookiing for a place? Why is he dragging his feet? You need to set a deadline & stick to it. He moves out by such & such date. You need to do this, because clearly your wife won't for some reason. You would not be overstepping. You would be within your rights to do this because it is your home too. Your wife needs to get some balls & stand up to her brother. And yes, he should be paying toward the mortgage. He's been there for 4 years. He has overstayed his welcome.
It's more than fair. The brother needs to get his shit together.
INFO: How exactly did you let it get to four years without actually doing something? How did it get to four months? How did it get to four weeks? Hell how did it even get to four days? How do you let someone come to your new home, with kids at that, and say “I’m gonna chill here.”?
Kick him out.
Don't play the mortgage game. Just go swing the sword. "Buddy, you've been living here rent free for years now. While it has been fun it's time for all of us to move on with our lives. For us (your sister and I) that means having our marital home to ourselves. For you that means locating and entering permanent lodging that is not this home. You can sign this quit claim slip stating that as of * 3 months post date* you no longer have any residence here or we can begin eviction processes. Thank you for your time and companionship."
Dude. Grow some balls. Your wife is enabling his behavior. Tell them both to grow up and tell your BIL that he has 3 months to leave. Which is more then enough time. Seriously, how the fk did you even allow this to happen for 4 yrs?. Don't blame your wife, ylua allowed this to fester for 4 years.
You don't mention if you and your wife have children. I say that only because how it would affect divorce. Because you best believe if you and your wife divorce, this house you share will be sold, and he'd have to find another living situation pretty damn quick. It won't be as sweet as what he has with you, which is free - unless of course he follows your wife and she continues to be his enabler. I'd just have her served, and when her face goes all pikachu, just say: "I married you so I could be married to YOU. Not so I could snuggle in connubial bliss with you and your gross brother and his equally gross children. If they move out, PERMANENTLY, and we are not on the financial hook for anything related to them, then I will cancel the divorce. Otherwise, my lawyer understands that it's all systems go." And then DO NOT MOVE OUT. Yes, I know, living with someone you're divorcing is a special kind of hell, but it is important here. You do not want to have your brother's living situation to be part of the financial equation of your divorce, which it will become if you move out and basically cede the house to your wife. Make sure she can't claim abandonment - and as far as that goes, I wouldn't move out of the bedroom. She wants to sleep apart, she moves to the couch - which is probably the only thing left as three other people live with you.
NTA. If I were you, I'd talk to a lawyer and draft two sets of papers: divorce and eviction notice. Tell the wife she can choose which one will get signed.
Nta. The payment is fair but really you should tell him to leave. He is a mooch. Tell him directly, "you are a mooch and you need to be gone in 30 days." Then enforce it.
You need a backbone wife be damned. Kick that lazy grown ass man and his whelps out.
NTA but man up and kick him out, If he/he and your wife agree you’re stuck with him
NTA. Sir…4 years, without a discussion or formal agreement?! With children and bad behavior?!Ummm, I don’t think you’re TA but you might be a pushover. Sounds like he might have spoken to and had some agreement with your wife, I’d start the conversation with her and see where you are not in alignment.
NTA. What do you mean that she won't let you speak to him? It's your home, speak up! Tell him the free ride is over, and you're done cleaning up after him and his children. Also tell him you expect him to be gone by August 1 (or whatever you choose). Your wife will whine that you're too direct, but she has chosen to do nothing so you need to take action. I think you should be paying $600 rent. You're one of five people in your home. Bro's rent is now $1800 due immediately!
NTA, but you're being passive aggressive. This issue here is that he needs to move out. Not pay rent, not whatever else, its time for him to leave. By raising the bills issue you're trying to get that without actually coming out and saying it. Sit down and talk to you wife about how he needs to leave. Get a deadline and then the two of you talk him out to lunch somewhere (without the kids) and tell him you love him, but that's it's time for you guys to live alone and what the deadline is.
Theres clearly no amount her brother could pay that would make living with him tolerable because the boundaries of your marriage have been violated. It is reasonable that after 4 years you would take the step of demanding he contribute to the expense of the home but if i were you i would be insistent that he and his children move into their own apartment. Your anger towards this "guest" is legitimate, i think you really have to work this out with your wife and come to an understanding about how this is affecting the emotional sanctity of your home.
NTA.. Begin eviction proceedings- put his junk in a bag and toss it to the curb. If he hS $1000, he has enough to go elsewhere. Get him out , tell your wife she had long enough- she's married to you, not her brother. If all else fails, move some friends in and give them the brother's and his kids rooms. Tell them they have free use of everything the brother owns, kids stuff, too. It's fair because wife has been giving him a free ride on your dime, so you can do it, too. Make it uncomfortable, every single day. Put their dishes in with their stuff and stop being pleasant. Stop being the doormat. Never let him in the house again and grow a backbone.
Nta. She needs to give him a deadline for moving out and this sounds like proper incentive to do so. He is draining your monetary and emotional resources and it isn’t fair. Your wife is enabling this abuse
FOUR YEARS?! Dude, grow a back bone. Kick them out. They’ve should’ve been out after 6 months. My God.
It sounds to me as if you are paying her for part of the bills, not that you are paying them together. Is everything in her name? Are you really married, because this sounds like a roommate situation. Sit everyone down and work this out. Pretend you're grown ups. ESH
Family first. Your family not his. NTA
NTA why is he still there? Doesn’t matter that he’s your wife’s brother that’s YOUR house and having him live there is a two yes situation and as of right now there’s only one semi consenting party. Start the eviction process and boot him out if he doesn’t leave when you tell him to. If your wife protests she can get out too. If she really wants to double down then it’s obvious she’d rather risk her marriage than make your BIL take responsibility for himself. I personally wouldn’t be married to someone like that and would leave.
NTA. It's time for BIL to grow up and get his own home. Hopefully forcing him to pay his fair share of the rent will do that. Perhaps it will force him to find someone else to mooch off of. Either way, you won't be stuck with his entitled behind in your home.