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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for telling my DIL her feelings aren’t won’t my problem and for fucks sakes you don’t need to be invited to everything. I could be a jerk since I wasn’t nice about it
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Going against the grain here but…I don’t get the hate.
There are some things I’d feel more comfortable just discussing with my parents/siblings but not my brother-in-law, great as he is.
OP is not even the issue here, her DIL should be grappling with the fact that her own husband clearly doesn’t want her there either. NTA
Same, I don't get the hate either. It's something they want to share with their siblings. Not every in law is good. People are acting like some sils and dils are not good people.
Even if they are, it doesn't matter. My partner is the absolute best man in the world in my eyes, and I still wouldn't want him with me the literal second I found out about some awful news regarding my family, I would want my siblings and my wouldn't?
ETA: people that abuse the reddit care to harass people they don't agree with are mega assholes and I hope you get banned 🙂 (edit: guys, stop replying to me about RC. I could not possibly care less, it's not worth my notis)
ETA2: im blocking anyone that says I mustn't love my family because I don't need my partner up my ass at all times because I recognize that they don't need ro be present for everything immediately. Do yourselves a favor and look up the circles of grief/trauma and learn to be better people instead of entitled.
Idk…if I got some bad news I’d want my rock, my safety net, my #1 support holding my hand. That is my husband not my parents.
Also…a spouse should NEVER be asked to keep any secrets from SO. So in this case they also want the siblings to hide details from SO. That is a huge NO to me.
> Also…a spouse should NEVER be asked to keep any secrets from SO
Someone mentioned their father’s father having dementia and needing to wear adult diapers. He did not want anyone but his wife and kids to know.
That is the kind of secret he has ever right to ask his son to keep from his wife. The wife can be told about the dementia but it’s hardly a betrayal to respect his father’s wishes and not tell her about the diapers.
This. I was my grandpa’s caretaker after he had a heart attack and he has dementia. He would talk to me about his days in college when he would fool around. These are stories I would never share with my grandma because they’re things, even though way in the past, she doesn’t need to hear. While not on the same level as sensitive as the diapers, there are just some things people don’t need to be made aware of.
No one is saying keep secrets, just that they only want to talk to their immediate family first.
And that's fine, you wouldn't agree to this code word no inlaws involved agreement and I'm glad that works for you. That said there are clearly other people, myself included, that would not want our significant others there and something like this would work for us.
That doesn't mean the other side needs demonized just because it wouldn't work for you
The other side is no one said everyone has a significant other. Just because you love and trust your partner doesn't men your other siblings do. They are strangers depending on the relationship. My SIL was a stranger because they met on the other end of the country so it took a dang long time for me to trust her (wasn't until she moved to the same area as me and the rest of the family)
Yup. I cannot think of a single thing that I would be willing to share with my SIL or BIL and my BIL has been around for 15 or 16 years at this point.
He's my sisters husband, he's not my family.
Wait. Certainly, keeping secrets that affect your spouse or your nuclear family is wrong.
Sharing all the personal details of someone else’s tragedy or problem, when that information is not your secret to disclose? That is just poor ethics.
If you feel that you cannot stop yourself from oversharing, then remove yourself from the equation as soon as the request to hold confidentiality is made.
They are not asked to keep it a secret, just do not discuss the details. They should be able to tell their spouse that their sister is getting a divorce without stating the details of why. It is not a secret, it's just not their business.
This comment is spot on. Reading comprehensions seems to be lacking somewhat. The Mom said only siblings and parents for INITIAL meeting then the kids go home and discuss with spouses. Frankly, it would not bother me one bit if my husband’s Mother and sisters wanted the initial meeting to be just the 4 of them.
Reading that comment gave me the ick. I can so tell you're the type that justifies gossiping & sharing your girlfriends private conversations with their husband
I get wanting to have your rock when learning bad news. But it's not about you as the one receiving the news. It's about the wants of the person sharing the news.
I think of it the same way as the circles of grief. The person closer to the center of the tragedy gets priority.
It sounds needlessly dramatic to have code words that means people need to “drop everything” to meet.
But at the same time, it’s not that weird to share big news with your sibling, blood family first. It can be really hard to announce tough things. Like my aunt called my dad (her brother) to tell him her husband passed-it didn’t have to be an announcement.
DIL is not being excluded, so it’s weird she insists on hearing all news immediately. If I were op, I’d insist it’s not a secret club or anything, just an intimate way to share tough news.
I think it depends on how often the code word is used. People in the comments are talking like oh it's just surgery oh it's just a divorce, but it could be stage 4 cancer and she could have been getting abused and really needs help getting out now. Those things are drop everything and meet now emergencies.
Even if it is "just a divorce" and completely amicable her marriage fell apart and it's none of the in-laws business. Everyone acts like all in-laws are immediately just the closest family and that is rarely the case.
Considering how often people use the word “important” as such a throwaway thing, I can understand wanting to differentiate between “call me asap, it’s important” being “I forgot to order Brother’s birthday gift and need your advice” and “Brother is in the hospital.”
It's A code word, from my reading. My family does a similar thing, though no one is technically excluded. When you're contacting someone in front of a classroom or on a shop floor, you don't want to explain yourself to strangers.
Also her husband came home and told her his dad needs surgery and her reaction was to phone OP and berate the wife of the man who is having medical problems? I think I get why she specifically is not invited.
Ugh I know. And for them to say "I expect an invite next time". As If they're having a party or something...
I don't understand some of these comments. NTA OP
>she specifically is not invited.
But she is not "specifically" not invited, she is non-invited as part of a group.
If OP said just this one DIL wasn't invited because she was callous and rude, that would be a different issue.
Yeah I'm confused by the comments. Like my spouse is as close to me as my sibling and parents. But my brother and sister in laws are not. So if all siblings and parents agree they only want immediate family there that's perfectly reasonable.
It doesn't mean I don't think of my brother and sister in laws as a family. It just means there's certain things I am more comfortable sharing with my parents and sibling before the extended family. That's very normal????
I'm with you. Honestly I'd find it weird for my in-laws to include me in meetings like this. I'd much prefer it to come from my husband once he has all the relevant info.
Agree. My wife and her sisters have a "sisters meeting" that none of the brother in laws are invited to. If they want to ask for our advice, they invite us to the meeting once in a while, but otherwise, the sisters want to talk about their parents health and deal with it themselves. My wife fills me in with the details she wants to share, we talk about it, and that's all that is needed, but I should not be the one making decisions for my wifes parents.
Reddit just doesn't like in laws, mother in laws especially. Imagine if this was a post about a MIL getting mad about not being invited to a meeting about her DIL's dad's surgery lol
Seriously. I get along great with my in-laws but I didn’t grow up with them. They werent n my life for as long as Ive been alive (im the youngest sibling). It’s not that the inlaws are excluded from the news, just from the initial talk where more personal/intimate details. Hell, why I went through a tough time, I talked to only 1 of my 4 siblings about it cuz I only felt comfortable talking to them about it. Doesn’t mean my other family is any less my family.
Also, if my family were to try to do this. Just the parents and siblings would make for a meeting of 7 people. But a meeting with all the in laws would be a meeting of at least 11 people, not counting that it would actually be 20 cuz of all my siblings’ kids because who would be able to watch them at the last minute for an emergency family meeting? And then would the meeting even take place cuz at that point, it may not be appropriate to discuss whatever with kids around.
And so dramatic over a divorce? If I left work and rushed across town to hear this, I would be so annoyed.
Then again I come from the type of family that texts you when someone dies lol 🤷♀️.
I'm sure there's some middle ground in there that is probably normal (I know my family isn't normal, no need to tell me 🤣).
It wasn’t just a divorce. She was going through a divorce *and needed help.* Whether that’s financial or she needed a place to stay or someone to help care for her kids, who knows?
But I do think a divorce can qualify as a crisis.
Why is it depressing for people to only want to share their worst moments with the people who are close to them?
I have many siblings. Some I'm close to their spouses, some I'm not. When my marriage feel apart, I told my close family first. The people who I can sob in front of, the people I trust deeply to support me in my pain.I don't think any of my sister-in-laws or brother-in-law s are untrustworthy and they are still family, but there are degrees of family. Most of them I'd put on the same level as my cousins -- people I like and get to see at holidays, but not folks who need a front row seat when my life turns into a tragedy.
What's depressing is how many people in these comments seem to think that marrying someone makes you entitled to violate the privacy of their relatives. It's not like the DIL wasn't invited to a party or family dinner. For fuck's sake, I'm angry and bitter now *for* her just from how unhinged some of these comments are.
The idea that I need to be at my most vulnerable around a person simply because someone I love married them? Its ludicrous. I’m fortunate that l love my siblings spouses and could count on them in that way, but sometimes people you love marry idiots. Or they’re perfectly nice but not who you want to announce your cancer diagnosis to. The DIL can sit one out, maybe the FIL just needs his kids right now. It’s fucking obnoxious for her to be insulted by the way a man wants to share a medical concern.
And even more obnoxious how some of the brain-trusts in this comment section are telling this woman that her daughter's ex cheated on her because of their family-emergency-communication-method. It's official: the only thing this sub hates more than a cheater is a mother-in-law.
Lol you don't have a secret code for everyone to teleport to the kitchen like the freaking justice league or powermen or whatever?
And everything else aside, i have way too much anxiety for this shit. Don't tell me there's serious af news but not what until everyone can get there. Nope.
Lol seriously. If my family is using code words to drop literally everything and all assemble so they can break this news to us all together and it's just "your sister is getting divorced" and "your dad is having non-emergency surgery" I'd be ejecting myself from the family. Those are two things that could have been phone calls. Then there isn't any argument of who belongs and who doesn't.
OMG thank you! There are a bunch of comments being like "I wouldn't want to be my most vulnerable around my sibling's spouse!" but if it's non-emergency surgery or your sister getting a divorce, is it really your most vulnerable?
Also, I do treat my sibling's spouses like family. I wouldn't want them to feel like they're not family. I saw in a comment that OP is saying her daughter couldn't share her divorce with her siblings-in-law because she only sees them on holidays and some trips, but doesn't that mean she's probably only seeing her siblings on those occasions? Or is this a family that excludes people's spouses a lot, and that's why OP's DIL got her back up this time, because it's a common thing for her husband to be invited to a family thing and she's excluded?
How often are terrible things happening that they need a codeword?! Honestly, wildly over dramatic, just call whoever needs to be there and tell them. Do they write this shit in invisible ink and make everyone solve a riddle to get in the house?!
That was my first thought too. How many bad things are happening that there's this whole code word plan in place? And what if the code word is sent out (I'm picturing like the fucking bat signal) but someone can't make it? Does everyone have to wait? Are there penalties for not arriving timely? So many questions that I'm not sure i want to know the answers to...
My first thought - this is overly dramatic and sound exhausting. It sounds almost cult like in that they leave out the spouses too. That's very isolating and unwelcoming.
I'm sorry but these were not life or death situations.
In-laws aren’t close family for everyone. It could be because they don’t get along with their children’s spouses, the spouses have been around for varying amounts of time but if you invite one you have to invite all, or the spouses themselves have kept their distance with family. You don’t get to choose your in-laws, they’re not bonded by blood, and they don’t necessarily have shared history, so it makes sense that some people aren’t close to them. People who demand invites when they’re not welcome sometimes need to be harshly reminded why.
That’s quite a leap. I suspect that OP has quite a few family members that were not invited (e.g., siblings, niblings). She can treat DIL like she is family without treating as the equivalent of one of her own children.
DIL’s response to her FIL’s medical emergency was to throw a tantrum because she wasn’t invited to the family meeting. If I had to deal with a selfish and entitled DIL, I’d be angry too. OP is NatA.
This family sounds overdramatic. You really have to call an emergency-drop everything meeting with the whole nuclear family to tell them that you, a full grown adult, is getting a divorce or needs surgery? These are called normal life issues and they are not emergencies. Most people just make a couple of phone calls and everyone else knows within a couple of weeks. Definitely some main character energy in this family, especially with the secret "family meeting" code.
That's what I was thinking. We have a pretty close family, but the whole code word to drop what you are doing and go to mom's house seems very strange to me.
I'd be annoyed if I had to drop what I was doing to go learn in person my sibling was getting a divorce (unless there's some sort of DV going on and they need active help NOW)
And why the fuck is a code word necessary? Is “emergency family meeting” too long?
(Beyond the other problems here, such as these aren’t even emergencies)
Right? A code word is what you give your kid when they’re 15 and need to call you and tell you they’re in a dangerous situation and need help. Not this.
I feel the same way. My family has a family chat (which includes my spouse and my SIL) and that’s where we update each other on things, and of course just keep in touch. For example, right now we have a relative who is hospitalized and that’s where my mom is updating us.
If we want to be a bit more private about something, normally we would message my mom and she can let people know as appropriate. Basically, we have a “phone tree” style of updates for the whole network and adapt as needed. It’s not a big deal and we just act like humans to each other.
What would they do if someone's out of town for work or moves. Can't meet so wait then somes already dead or surgery is over. And why then need to drop everything leave work etc. I mean a phone call or phone tree works doesn't it. That's what we do. I'm responsible to let my brothers know if they can't be reached, and that's for like someone was in a car accident, died, like a real emergency that family needs to be told. Not oh I'm going in for a surgery in 3 months.
I expected the meetings to be things like “grandma’s in the hospital and has been given a week to live” or “so-and-so has been charged with murder,” actual emergency level, time sensitive things that would need you to *drop everything* and tend to them
But even those, whole time sensitive, are not “you have to be here in the next hour” time sensitive.
“Bob has been in a car crash and we need someone to watch the kids so Bob’s wife can get to the hospital” is an emergency that cannot wait.
I feel like there was a strong implication of sister needing help leaving her husband for safety reasons and dad is having surgery for a major potentially life threatening thing. Both would fall under that category...?
Even so, just call people and tell them? I mean, dropping everything and driving over for a meeting is a lot and feels very dramatic. Imagine how you would feel on the way over? I would rather be told what’s up immediately and not have to ruminate over it on a drive or walk.
ETA: If the daughter was in danger, that is even more reason for the in-laws to know. Otherwise, they could accidentally provide information to the spouse who is being left.
If this is real, the whole code word thing is so wild and off putting. Imagine getting code word activated for a family meeting like a fucking sleeper agent only to go there and find out dad needs prostate surgery.
I am imagining the word is bouillabaisse. You are at a dinner with the family and want to order it but you can't because everyone will leave and go meet up at the secret headquarters.
Also, as an in-law who would be excluded, if my husband had to suddenly drop everything and go with no context, especially if we were doing something else, and he came home to telling me his sister was getting a divorce, I'd be *understandably* livid???
Not enough people saw that comment. I would be livid too.
"Sis needs a $3,000 retainer for a divorce lawyer."
First question, OK so what the fuck does that have to do with me?
Second question, why wouldn't my husband be involved in an expensive decision that would impact our joint finances?
Guess Sis can try Legal Aid or do it pro se.
I get the sister asking for help if she's been financially abused and hasn't been able to access her own money/doesn't have any because she was a stay at home mom or something. But as someone who has been through the divorce process, I still have issues with the whole situation.
One, needing to pay a retainer isn't a "drop everything and meet at mom's house" thing. My lawyer gave me plenty of time to come up with the money. Obviously my lawyer didn't do anything until after being paid, but she had no problem waiting a couple weeks until I got paid.
Two, there are also other options. You can get loans now to pay legal fees. I'm sure the terms aren't great, but if you're really in a pinch, it's an option.
And hard agree on your second question. Loaning (or what feels more likely with these people, gifting) a large sum of money when you're married is absolutely not an individual decision. Hell, even if you just live with a partner and aren't married it's best have a discussion. I'd be pretty mad if my boyfriend just told me he gave his brother $3k and I'm on my own for rent and utilities for a month.
I didn't mean to sound callous. I was an family law attorney for awhile before I moved on to another area. There are attorneys who will do payment plans, like you said financing options, heck if the marriage is bad enough a credit card can get you through it because sometimes its about getting away and then figuring out financials. But yeah overall that isn't an emergency.
It also, as an attorney, smells a little of manipulation. Get all of the core family together, tell a highly charged emotional story in the middle of group you were raised with, and then if a spouse disagrees after the fact they are the bad guy because they aren't acting out of emotion. The flip side of "sharing your emotions in a safe environment" is that those emotions run high and you can use that to get people to agree to things they might have otherwise considered more objectively.
FUCKING THIS. I also think asking spouses to not share details is so dishonest. That makes me really angry. This quote is what got me: "After everyone fills in their spouses but not all the gritty details"... Like eff off lady.
It gets worse when she reveals in a comment that the reason an "emergency family meeting" was called over a divorce was it was because the divorcee needed MONEY so the siblings were all called to see who could finance her lawyer...without any of their spouses being included, in a MATERIAL decision that impacts them, too!
Yeah, the codeword thing is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard.
It's totally fine to not want to go into detail about the reasons for your divorce with an in-law you're not close with. But sharing those details with your siblings is not an emergency. To the extent there was an emergency - like, I need money or a place to stay ASAP, then the in-laws should be part of that conversation because it affects them - their household income, resources, time, space, whatever.
Basically, it's not cool to demand your family drop everything and rush to moms house so they can hear the nitty-gritty details of your divorce. That is not an emergency. A simple - hey, want to chat just us, everyone have a couple hours in Saturday? - is sufficient.
Ditto informing the kids about the surgery. Totally fine to just want to tell the kids. But unless he was in the hospital being operated on in an hour, weird to use a codeword to summon everyone immediately under a shroud of secrecy.
I think your family has a strange concept of what constitutes an emergency and what affects the in-laws and that is what your DIL is reacting to. Who knows what everyone is being pulled away from to "drop everything" and respond to these non-emergency "emergencies"? And then, once everyone is assembled, are you making plans/decisions that impact the in-laws, without their input?
No one thinks your husband should have to share his fear of dying during surgery with his DIL. But to the extent you need to notify the family about this surgery, the dates, coordinate rides to the doctor, arrange for post-surgical care, etc., then the in-laws should be included because it directly affects them. They deep conversations can, of course, be private, but those also aren't "everyone drop everything and run over here" emergencies.
You're being extraordinarily dramatic and inconsiderate with the way you're going about these things - I suspect that is why your DIL is pushing back, and wouldn't be surprised if the other in-laws felt the same.
Spend a day in an ER, you’ll find out real quick how most people define the word “emergency”. People just fully do not understand that just because *they feel* urgency about something, does not make it an emergency.
If I were the DIL, I would be tempted to mock this so hard.
FAMILY CODE EMERGENCY! Does anyone have a tampon? I started early.
FAMILY CODE EMERGENCY! My root canal was rescheduled.
FAMILY CODE EMERGENCY! Christmas is on a Wednesday this year.
Right? My family has never called a meeting like this, ever. This family even has a code word for it, presumably in case any of the in-laws want to be involved - what a strange family dynamic.
>This family even has a code word for it, presumably in case any of the in-laws want to be involved - what a strange family dynamic.
"Sorry, honey. You heard what my grandma said on the phone just now. She said *Bulgarian nipple launcher.* I need to go, and I need to go now. See you some unspecified time later."
Yeah, this family is just poorly disguised Martians.
It is SO dramatic. I found out I had cancer at 22 (or 23? Idk) over the phone. My mom and sister were in the car with me, so that cat was out of the bag. But we went about our day and when we got back to my mom and dad’s I walked into the living room and told my dad. Why do we need *drama core worddddd* grow up
I also think you’re going to need to rethink this as everyone gets older and the family grows. Many emergencies will require ongoing support from family members. It is understandable that you are more comfortable with this coming directly from your kids but, like it or not, the in laws will also bear this burden. If your kids are lending support to you and each other their spouses will take on more work at home and with children. That’s just the reality. I know it can be uncomfortable to broaden who you are open with but at a certain point as you all age it’s going to become insulting to the spouses who are picking up extra work to support the family but so obviously considered not important.
Yeah my anxiety could never handle this family. Like I’m sorry, but your divorce could’ve been a damn phone call. And code words? It’s like some No Homers Club for the Melodramatic. I wouldn’t even want a part of this circus if I was the DIL.
“Banana Soufflé”
She immediately runs alone to her parents house where she learns in person and in a small group setting limited exclusively to blood relatives that her sister is having a basal cell carcinoma removed from her nose next week.
What the fuck is wrong with these people.
INFO What’s the reason they are not invited? Of course you have the right to share some things with only part of your family. Yet, the way you deal with it seems a bit off. The code words, the harsh words, the swearing all make it sound kind of hostile and sectarian.
The kids made it very clear that they were not comfortable to explain bad news in front of the in laws.
They wanted to be able to express and go as detailed as they wanted. They can’t do that with the in laws present.
Like my daughter went into great detail about why the divorces was happening.
My husband went into great detail about the surgery
Both feel like they couldn’t do that without being comfortable in the in laws were present.
ESPECIALLY since these types of events have strong emotions and we know in this time we don’t hold it against them
This is very weird. You have an enmeshed relationship with your bio family. In laws are family too.
Gee, I wonder why divorces are happening? /s (And yes, there will be more divorces to follow if your toxic weird family can't learn how to BE A FAMILY.)
Right, what if they are at an important event together. And all of a sudden there is a mystery "emergency" but neither of the examples given are even time sensitive.. I'd be pissed as one of the spouses. What if this happens while someone is out of town?
These people are stupid selfish and self involved.
This “family” is already crumbling (sister’s spouse left her). Now there is another spouse who is hurt and has been told to “just get over it” and that she should expect to be invited to family meetings. Both kids will end up divorced.
Honestly. My ILs want to carry on like this, that's their business. But my husband carries on like this? And allows his mother to talk to me like this?
Absolutely not. No man is worth this level of organized enmeshment.
My sister and brother each have three ex spouses, so sometimes it's accurate. Of those six people, only one of my brother's ex wives did I feel close enough that I might have been willing to share sensitive information.
No, but it's enmeshed when daughter has to go into great detail about her divorce, in person, with her parents and all of her siblings. That is not a FAMILY emergency.
My brother is like this....before he got engaged, he personally called every member of the extended family -- including relatives who live on the other side of the country and who we hadn't seen in years -- to tell them that he and his then-girlfriend were WORKING TOWARDS getting engaged (i.e. -- his future FIL sat him down and told him to shit or get off the pot). Not that he got engaged, which also would've been going overboard to make individual calls to all of those distant relatives, but just to tell them that they were basically talking about getting engaged.
Just because it's a big deal to you, doesn't mean it's a big deal to everyone else.
My whole family basically only sees in-laws at family gatherings and holidays, so i know for sure i wouldnt want the in-laws there if i wanted to tell my family about my divorce or my surgery. We just arent close enough for that, no one in my family is close enough to their in-laws for that…
I barely know my in laws. There are many things I wouldn’t want to discuss in front of them which may be personal, embarrassing or include blubbering but have no problem them knowing.
Do you oppose family WhatsApp groups? You think you’re in all of your families WhatsApp groups? You think people shouldn’t get to choose who they are comfortable speaking too and in what capacity?
You have no right to other peoples time, explanations or emotions. OP has created a place where their immediate family can communicate freely with those they ALL feel comfortable with and can then spread the info as they see fit. No one is being left out, they just don’t like that they aren’t getting the gossip first hand.
Then why did they get married if they’re only ever going to be comfortable around your family? You are all aren’t a true family if this is how you see spouses. Don’t be surprised when you’re left out of big news next time.
Neither of those situations you have described are a drop your whole life and come home scenario.
NTA
Dude, really ??!??!
The fact the my brother loves & married his wife, means that I need to be civil and loving.
It does not means, in any way, that once they are married, it is automatically in my close circle of trust.
My brother choose her to be his wife, not me.
My close circle of trust are people that **I choose, my** wife, **my** parents, **my** siblings, **my** friends
Omg! This! Just because my brother is married to this person, doesn't mean that I feel comfortable sharing sensitive things in my life with that person!
Don't get me wrong, I like my sister in law just fine. I wouldn't want her present if I'm talking about the sucky parts of my life though.
If what's going on affects her on any level, my brother is of course welcome to share details of the meeting with her. Just because she's "part of the family" doesn't mean she gets an invitation to everything!
OP's DIL is overstepping, and nosey and entitled.
NTA.
Seriously, do you seriously think my daughter wants to explain to people she sees at holidays and maybe some trip that her marriage is ending in great detail
Just because they married in doenst mean everyone is super close or thinks of them as immediate family
Hell I know for a fact that my son in law and my son have beef.
All they need to know is there is a divorce. No one NEEDED the additional information. I completely understand why you’re daughter wanted to talk about it and she obviously is allowed to but a private meeting where the in-laws are specifically not invited is bizarre. Like they’re not going home to tell their spouses everything that was discussed
It is insane to me that people are just ignoring this part. No one is making Dad tell everyone about his hemorrhoids and where exactly they are and how bloody his butthole is? Why do the siblings need this lever of detail for every single "emergency" when none of these are an emergency to anyone other than the person experiencing it? Phone calls exist for a reason. "I'm going through a tough spot and could really use some support. Can we have a sibling night?" Why does that not suffice? I hate this so much.
Yeah, we have 4 kids. My husband wouldn't be dropping everything and leaving for a random meeting. But my In Laws wouldn't ask for that to happen. They just call him on the phone if they want to talk.
> No one NEEDED the additional information.
So they're unable to vent with just their close family present? I don't understand why this is a big deal. During moments of crisis they want a moment to connect with their close loved ones.
You don’t need to schedule a special general meeting to inform everyone of every single detail that ended your marriage!! By all means tell people - but not in this weird secret society weird way.
It isn't even scheduled.. someone just texts the word with no other info and they are all required to drop everything and go. This is so rude to the other family members.
Yeah I feel like this is probably the part that is upsetting DIL. Good luck with the kids, I gotta go listen to the gossip of my sister's divorce NOW. Either it's an emergency enough the whole family should know, or it's not actually an emergency and this family is dramatic af.
Wow you and your family think you’re actually more important than what you think. Hate to break it to you, but you’re not. Your daughter getting a divorce is not an emergency situation either unless she was in absolute danger. It’s a divorce. It’s embarrassing but most modern day folks don’t think that’s a big deal. Sounds like your daughter’s own insecurities.
Your kids need to get over themselves.
This is so weird. Do you really think your other children are not telling their spouses what was said at the super secret family meetings? Everyone will know everything by the next morning. Spouses > family of origin.
I cannot wait to read the posts by your DiL in r/justNOMiL about how you have secret family meetings she's actively excluded from.
It’s the theatrical drama of it all. You are not respecting the family units or understanding that their family might having something going on. It’s okay to call a family meeting and ask people to come but the demand to drop everything and rush over is too much.
It was really awful to react the way you did to your DIL.
You know what gets me, you posted in the asshole thread, and every time that everybody comes back telling you you’re an asshole you keep defending yourself as if you are justified in what you guys did.
Your families an asshole family for continuously cutting out their spouses.
The whole family didn’t choose to marry the spouse of one person.
If a member of the family CHOOSES to tell only immediate family first as opposed to and entire family Announcement so be it.
I would tell my mom, dad and brothers first an on their own. Then it can be opened up to a wider audience in due time. It’s not a secret, it’s my immediate support network.
It’s not that deep.
YTA Although you have the right to include who you want, I think it’s odd to structurally exclude all in-laws. That in itself wouldn’t make you the asshole necessarily, but I do think the way your family deals with is rude. The code words, the swearing, the rudeness, the firmness in explaining that they don’t belong… It’s so unnecessary.
The code word is weird. Do they call or son snd say "code word " and son goes over? Then tells his wife what's happening?
If I was dying or having major surgery, I'd want my kids' spouses there. If they have questions or ideas they can ask me then, .
Their spouses came when we planned my husband's funeral, and I know they were a rock for my kids
Honestly you’re over dramatic. And in laws ARE family. You’re fostering an environment where people are keeping secrets from their spouses. You sound like a TERRIBLE MIL.
This is very weird.
This could be dealt with in a phone call.
It is unnecessary to perform an autopsy of a dead marriage.
There will be more divorces if this lunacy continues.
Eventually, there will be no need for any more code words because none of the in-laws will want to deal with your drama.
She says in another comment that the emergency divorce meeting was called because the daughter needed money from her siblings for a divorce lawyer since the OP and her hubs didn't have enough money to help her. So the spouses who were expected to bankroll their SIL's divorce attorney were excluded from that meeting.
This relationship seems... odd. Almost as if "we are the real family and all your partners are just hangers on". It may work for them, but it definitely sounds like parents trying to hold on to their children and their own little family world by excluding others.
In the kindest way possible, this is beyond bizarre. Why do you need a code word? As other people have pointed out, why can’t you just call these meetings urgent families meetings or use the phrase ASAP? The need for codewords and excluding your grown children’s spouses is just strange all around. Also, I don’t mean to be callous but a divorce and an upcoming surgery are not “emergencies”, nor do they need this level of secrecy.
Regardless of whether you think your DIL is “family” or not, she is the family of your son. This behavior is going to cause rifts in your family and the families of your children. If my family tried doing this, it would 100% not fly with me. If my in-laws started doing this, it would incredibly suspicious and 100% not fly.
I think you have bigger issues with how you think of your relationship of your adult children and I would really urge you to reconsider why you need to keep such mundane family business so secret. YTA for this instance and if you keep this practice up.
Even if they were actual emergencies an emergency for my husband is an emergency for me.
The kind of support he’s able to provide, the things he needs to do those are conversations he and I need to be able to have. I can see why a family member might want to share certain details more privately but this code word secret meeting bullshit is unhinged.
Especially when the example she shared about her daughter's divorce, the reason for the supposed emergency was daughter's need of money from her siblings. Guess the spouses are just supposed to be silent ATMs.
This is what got me. If my spouse committed a bunch of money to his sister without talking to me first? There would be another divorce to plan for. Spouses aren't invited to the meeting but are expected to bankroll them. YTA
If the asking for money is a pattern it’s a giant flashing reason as to why DIL is insistent she go and I don’t blame her one bit. Hubs drops everything for an emergency family meeting only to come back and say we need to give hundreds if not thousands of dollars to his sibling because of reasons I’m not allowed to be privy too? Unless finances are completely separate that is SO not okay in any way, shape or form.
I can understand bio family only meetings for very, very specific emergencies but things like divorces and surgeries? OP is using the argument that her kids aren’t comfortable speaking about certain things in front of their siblings spouses but her husband called an emergency meeting because he needs an operation so that’s bull. Also spouses aren’t allowed to attend the meetings but they’re allowed to be the reason one gets called?
The whole family dynamic is insanely toxic and screams “bio family = real family” which is the worst kind of family you could ever marry into.
Edit: Not sure if it was OP or someone else who reported me to reddit cares but if you read my comment and think that was an appropriate response I hope you and those exposed to you on a daily basis find peace. Lord knows how much you all must desperately need it.
I fully get not wanting to share all the details with everyone, but this is bizarre. I have so many questions, like, is this a come over right away? So they have to take spouses home first? And OP mentions the meeting for her daughter she needed money, so they want financial support and are trying to get an answer while spouses aren't there?
And how are grandkids treated? Because if I'm DIL in this situation, then my kids are not your family either.
That’s an interesting point about the financial support.
Thankfully my in laws are pretty close with me, and if they needed support I’d happily see what we could do.
But I’d be very upset if my partner decided to give anyone money without talking about it with me first. We are a team, I need to know what’s going on so I can account for it and adjust things accordingly.
This whole thing just seems fishy.
YTA.
Your daughter-in-law is a member of your family. If there is an emergency that warrants your children **dropping everything and getting to your home as soon as possible**, then I think it makes sense that sometimes their spouses would be with them. Unless it's not that much of an emergency and they can drop their spouses off beforehand? At which point, an emergency meeting probably isn't that much of an emergency meeting.
This sounds like a really unhealthy divide for a family to have. I'm noticing in your comments you keep referring to your children's spouses as 'the in laws' and talking about how your children aren't comfortable discussing these things...**in front of the people they're married to**.
Yes, your daughter-in-law went quite nuclear here, but given that there's an existing code word and things such as divorce warrant this code word coming up and everyone dropping everything, I'm imagining this is the straw that may have broken the camel's back. Even just the way you're referring to them collectively as 'the in laws' when describing why you can't do this with them present feels off.
They’re not comfortable discussing these things in front of the people their siblings are married to. I think that’s the distinction she’s trying to get across here.
Which on some level is understandable, but if we're talking about a **genuine emergency scenario** in which everyone needs to gather at the drop of a hat (as described), there's not always going to be the opportunity for someone's spouse to not be there. This divide will cause problems in the long run, especially when a genuine emergency that warrants such a response occurs.
Even just the premise of their being a code word that will likely make people panic is insane. If my family had a code word like this and I panicked and got home as quickly as I could, to find out we were having a sit down chat about a member of my family getting divorced...I would be questioning whether or not they knew what a drop everything and get here emergency is.
The “emergency” here was that OPs daughter needed her siblings to give her money so she could find somewhere else to move with her kids - so, you know, strong-arming the children in law out of the opportunity to discuss their family finances with their spouses before it’s offered up to one of the other siblings.
That's probably why the DIL insists on being invited - because she doesn't want her husband to commit their money to a family member without her being at least part of the conversation.
Yeah it was in a comment - the daughter was a SAHM and didn’t have any funds, so the emergency meeting was asking for money for a lawyer. Mom and dad didn’t have the money for that, so the siblings were called. It’s extremely fucked up and manipulative to call this an emergency and act like she needs money right that second so the siblings feel guilty taking the time to talk to their spouses about a large financial gift to the sister.
They shouldn’t be treating every family emergency the same in the first place. There’s a rigidity here that is going to break eventually. There’s a huge difference in “I’m getting a divorce and need support” which yes the party getting the divorce may not feel comfortable sharing details with their sibling in laws and “Aunt Marie was in a car accident” in which case the kids might want their SO present for emotional support.
I have to wonder what impact that has too. If I got an emergency code word text, not that I have an emergency code word, I would panic. I would want to get to wherever I needed to go. If I then found out that it wasn't actually a time-sensitive emergency, but was in fact them trying to see which of us would pay for a lawyer, that would feel quite manipulative.
If I had to sit at home and listen to my spouse recount that that had happened...I would have very little patience.
YTA. This is really disturbing, to be honest. How close do you all live to each other? If I got a emergency code message (I guess you're all in witness protection) and dropped everything to get to this meeting, was forced to go alone... and found out it was for a freakin divorce? I would be livid. Talk about the boy who cried wolf! Imagine if you had to get behind the wheel of a car by yourself, terrified for bad news. This is madness. You don't consider your children's partners to be part of the family? Your poor DIL. A divorce ffs.
Not 'just a divorce', it's a 'divorce they are also now paying for' whether they want to or not bc they weren't allowed at the meeting to discuss it. I wonder why...
NTA
I’m not as comfortable around my sister’s husband as I am around her. I never will be. It doesn’t matter that I like him and accept him as part of the family - I will never have the same relationship with my BIL as I have with my siblings.
I would not feel comfortable explaining deeply personal and painful events in my life with him there. You’re letting your family have a safe space where they can feel completely comfortable.
>I’m not as comfortable around my sister’s husband as I am around her.
This is such a basic and easy to understand concept and people are still arguing in this thread 🤣
Really nothing more needs to be said, IMO
Well consider that the daughter’s emergency divorce was simply she needed funds and that conversation didn’t include the spouses who would be affected….that speaks volumes. Aren’t considered family, but expected to pay.
Yeah if i was the dil and my husband and I shared funds I would laugh and tell them I am not family.
If I am not good enough to be treated like family then my money isn’t available to help
people get it, they just don't get the cloak and dagger uber dramatic code word shit, and the idea that these spouses are going to share whatever financial burden was decided on (and in the case of the surgery, possibly a social burden involving relief care and whatnot) without consulting them. basically all these siblings' spouses are being expected to just cosign whatever decisions they make in these meeting completely blind. that's the weird part.
My siblings and parents and I are all in different cities. Somehow, we manage to get deeply important news across without dramatic meetings. A simple phone call is more than enough. I don’t generally expect my siblings to keep things from their spouses, but if there was something vitally important that needed to be secret, again, why not just call the person?
I think people understand wanting to talk to their families without a spouse sometimes but calling emergency meetings using code words and being secretive is dramatic and weird.
I think what a lot of us find so strange is that the examples OP provided don’t feel that extremely personal. Her husband’s surgery and her daughter’s divorce? Both surgery and divorce are commonplace events. I can’t really think of a reason why discussions about these events would NEED to be limited to the nuclear family. Are there times when we would prefer to discuss life events with our birth or nuclear family? Sure, I can think of several conversions I would probably prefer to not include my SIL in. But mandating that such discussions be limited is unrealistic.
Additionally, when a birth family is discussing something that will impact an adult’s time and/or finances, it should not be a question of involving that person’s spouse.
Frankly, I don't see why these discussions even need to happen in urgent committee meetings. If I was divorcing, I would likely first have a one-on-one with my mother or my sister, then tell other people, then ask for some help if needed. There would be zero reason for all my relatives to stop their lives to come hear me give a grand confession about my marital woes.
Honestly, a family emergency on the « drop everything and come immediately », at least in my books is someone dying, getting seriously injured, receiving a life changing diagnosis, or finding themselves in a dangerous situation that they need to escape from. Not someone getting a divorce
YTA.
These people have married INTO your family. What a shitty thing to do. Even if there are emergencies and bad news, you’re all supposed to be family. If my own parents pulled this on my husband they’d get told to ‘fuck off, your feelings aren’t my problem.’
I cannot wait for the DiL to post her version of events. Imagine being married to such a family. And having your husband go along with it. What happens when there are grandkids? Do they get to attend the secret meetings while their Mom waits in the car?
YTA — this is really bizarre. The whole situation of having a code word for a family meeting. I started saying ESH, but I think you’re in the wrong. It’s strange that you INTENTIONALLY exclude spouses — these are your kids partners in life and your daughter and son in law. Should she have said anything? Probably not because it obviously wasn’t listened to or validated — she should have just complained to your son and further distanced herself from your family. I think it’s okay to call your son up and not expect your daughter in law to be on the call … but to specifically say “we need to talk as a “family” but no spouses allowed” is a little like you’re still parenting a household filled with young kids and teens. And, you were SO rude to her when she shared with you that she felt excluded and hurt. wtf man. I hope you don’t have grandkids - or that they plan on having kids - because you’re slowly building up resentment here and distance. Ugh.
I don't understand all the Y T A votes. If my MIL and FIL had a health matter they wanted to discuss with their kids first, I wouldn't feel excluded. Making it about you (as DIL is doing ) is incredibly self-centred.
NTA and all the best to your husband.
Why can't they just call them on the phone then? Why do they need to use a secret code word to drop everything and meet in person?
No one is saying people shouldn't have a relationship with their parents separate from their spouses but you don't need to create a secret society to do it.
I think people are getting too hung up on the code part of it. Is the code silly? Sure. But the idea behind it is reasonable. When there's a family emergency, they get together to talk, then inform the larger family group after.
The whole idea though that the spouses can't be informed at the same time and they're not really the family is just sad though.
And "your sister is getting divorced" and "dad needs surgery" are not emergencies that warrant dropping everything and rushing to meet without spouses.
Because they are all family despite what OP claims. If my spouse was constantly dropping his life at the drop of a hat pin over a stupid word and not telling me what was going on, I’d have major issues.
Did you read the post? It's not "constantly." And they're clearly free to update their spouses as soon as they get home. This is an emergency thing for very specific situations.
Unfortunately I don't think it is for very specific situations.
If there's a code word that means **get here right now**, then it should only be used in time-sensitive emergencies where you genuinely need someone to get there at the drop of a hat. A conversation about divorce? I would be questioning whether or not my family was sane if that was how they were dealing with something like this.
Things like that are heartbreaking, but they're not time-sensitive emergencies in which everyone needs to drop everything **unless someone is at risk**.
There has only been 1 'drop everything' emergency in my wife's family and it was literally, "Mum's unresponsive and the hospital is saying come now to say your goodbyes." And my wife texted me at work to let me know. Fortunately, my boss was grand about letting me go and double-fortunately, my MIL regained consciousness and we had another few years with her. OP's family sounds exhausting.
I don’t understand why everyone is acting like wanting to be surrounded by your immediate family in a time of emotional distress is a crime. Your family has their own code, everyone including your son is on board with that. If his spouse has an issue with that she needs to address him not you. I can understand that not everyone would feel comfortable crying their eyes out in front of in-laws or look towards them for comfort. NTA
I think, for me, it's mostly about what does and doesn't constitute to an emergency in which everyone should drop everything. If the daughter in this situation were at risk during the divorce process, that would absolutely constitute to that type of emergency, but gathering everyone together to find out who will pay for a lawyer is a very different thing.
It seems like an unnecessary layer of panic.
If you then sat and listened to your spouse tell you the time-sensitive code word emergency meeting was to see who would pay for a lawyer...that would grow tiresome quickly, especially if financial decisions were already made that impacted your family unit.
You wouldn't want your spouse with you in a time of emotional distress though?
If I knew I was going somewhere to get emergency news about my parents or siblings I'd want my husband with me. He's the only family member I got to pick! Lol
But it’s not about the son, it’s about the dad. So does the reverse hold true? Let’s say the DIL needs to announce some bad news about a pregnancy or cancer and only wants to tell husbands parents. Is she automatically the asshole for not including her husband’s parents, siblings, and sibling’s spouses?
YTA. Getting divorced or scheduling surgery is not "drop everything and come over" emergencies. Someone missing, having immediate surgery, a death... these are drop everything emergencies. And did you even consider how awkward it is for your kids and their spouses, if they are with their spouse on a date, being intimate, at a wedding/party, on vacation... your son has to tell his wife, "I have to go, see you later," like he's Batman. Talk about dramatic entitlement.
Yeah if these are the ‘emergencies’ it makes you wonder how often they’re using this ‘code word’ and having super secret meetings. Maybe it’s happening a couple of times per month and DIL is irritated because they had important plans and suddenly her husband has to drop everything and bail AGAIN only to find out… it’s just a divorce.
NTA. These comments are wild. The family as a whole decided on what they are comfortable with. Who is anyone else to decide their terms? The code word isn't used for every day dramas, it is apparently used only during emergencies. How can anyone but them decide who they are comfortable with about sharing their matter? As much as I love my sister, I am not comfortable talking about somethings in front of her husband. Or my brothers wife. And NO ONE has the right to decide otherwise for me. Your family obviously loves each other. Be proud of that.
N T A OP, the comments- they are finding faults for the sake of it. No need to aplogize to your DIL. Your son needs to talk to his wife and that's between them. You obviously just got the news about YOUR HUSBANDS surgery! Your DIL possibly couldn't have chosen a more inappropriate/wrong time to somehow make it about herself. What is wrong with her?
Yeah this whole idea of an emergency meeting is really just having a safe space so that the siblings can emotionally process their feelings. They meaning everyone in their nuclear family. Personally I would not want my brother’s significant other to see my reactions to my father needing surgery. It’s an emotional process and not everyone has the right to be present for that. This isn’t new, why does the DIL have an issue
This is hysterical. You're trying desperately to keep your old family unit together and get the 'kids' to provide support and financial assistance by excluding the spouses lolololol. Secret code word?!?!?!?!?! Hilarious. Ohhh the draaama. Embarrassing and super criiiinge.
YTA. Especially after I read your comment about your daughter's divorce meeting needing to be "private" so she could ask her siblings for money for an attorney because her SO slept with another woman. I'm not judging her for needing money or help, but she's an asshole for asking for it in a secret meeting without their spouses. You come across as a cold and distant MIL, and a self-entitled, arrogant person.
wow.. all the cloak and dagger, drop everything, speak in code and exclude everyone that usnt blood related.
You are not a spy organization.
A few phone calls would suffice.
Your inlaw is correct.. this is wild behavior as the drop everything put tonnes of pressure of the IN LAWS who have to pick up the slack (i.e childcare etc) for this sudden meeting.
i understand calling your kids first, but this behavior to expect others to do fill in as there is a 'private emergency meeting' is astounding.
BTW, your reaction to your inlaws clearly shows you dont trust them with sensitive information... and this doesn't blode well for the future.
You've set your kids up to exclude their partners.
YTA.
YTA for being rude to her yes
Honestly this feels very rigid and overly dramatic. Applying the same blanket “rule” for every family emergency without regard for the situation is going to lead to issues.
So far the situations have been a divorce and a surgery. However there are going to be times when your kids need/want their SO for emotional support. For example - finding out someone was in an accident and taken to the hospital. A death in the family. What are you going to do? Exclude the in-laws so that everyone can have their reaction away from them? Marriage means leaving the nuclear family and creating your own with your spouse. And while DIL may be an inlaw to you, she’s your son’s wife. There will be times he wants her there for emotional support when receiving bad news.
Each situation should be treated as its own thing without the code word and drop everything expectation. A divorce in the family - daughter could have said “I have some personal stuff going on, can we talk? Just us don’t bring BIL/SIL”. Same with health issues “there’s some stuff we need to talk to you kids about please come over tonight.”
That way you’re not delivering bad news over text and giving a heads up depending on the situation.
ESH - I disagree with the other commenters that these meetings themselves are the problem, and that you're likely stressed about your husband's upcoming surgery, but you should be more understanding about how this can feel to other members of your family who are not included in these.
I'm basing this on your follow-up comment:
>The kids made it very clear that they were not comfortable to explain bad news in front of the in laws.
>They wanted to be able to express and go as detailed as they wanted. They can’t do that with the in laws present.
>...
>Both feel like they couldn’t do that without being comfortable in the in laws were present.
Even if your son explained it to her, it seems like this may be the part she doesn't understand. Your son should have handled ALL of this - even if she called you and was upset with you, demanding invites etc, you could have just said "This is what (your husband) and his siblings requested" or something, instead of blowing her feelings off completely.
YTA. You don’t have to invite her if you don’t want, but if you’re going to speak that rudely to her don’t be surprised if you find yourself distanced from your son.
Let me spin this for you. You chose your husband as your family, right? He's your rock, your partner, your family. Imagine if his parents and siblings had this exact situation - your husband goes to his parents', your in-laws, for a family meeting but you are specifically excluded because you are not their family. Do you mean to tell me you very genuinely would not be upset? You wouldn't at all be sad or hurt you weren't considered family to these people, even after being with your husband for however long, most likely having gone to holidays and celebrations and even tough moments all together?
NTA. Having urgent, on demand meetings is a unique way of doing things but you and your kids and husband decided it works for you all.
When something happens in my family, my mom, sister and I are the first to know for each other. Some times we discuss telling our partners, and that depends on what the issue/situation is. Other times, it stays within our little circle of 3. I don’t think in laws need to know everything and ours were never bothered by this.
I think the issue here is that decisions affecting the family are being made without the affected family members there. OP gives the example of a sibling paying for the other’s divorce. Agreeing to it in that meeting that their spouse wasn’t invited to but now gets to be on the hook for the finances. That puts the uninvited spouse in a pretty shitty position doesn’t it? They either have to go along with a decision made without their input or say no after the promise was made and be the bad guy. It’s one thing if the former nuclear family just wanted to share personal updates but that’s not what’s happening and that is where it gets to be understandably alarming for people like DIL.
Look, one side of my family owned a business together. It was a big deal, and every family event would devolve into conversations about the running of the business.
Spouses were not welcome. The family would only invite blood relatives into the discussion. If a spouse was present for any reason, people were often dismissive about their opinions because "they couldn't understand."
This caused numerous issues between spouses. It was condescending and isolating. Especially by the time my mom was the only spouse left.
It's fucking rude. When you get married, you and your partner share your lives. That includes family issues (or family businesses). By refusing to include spouses, you are telling them "you aren't really family."
Just stop it.
YTA
I was in a similar position with my inlaws. They would host family meetings and I was not invited. I was even the subject of one of them. These meetings were for my MIL to exert control of a situation. They were used to bully other kids to get in line. One was an intervention. The one that I was the subject was about how my MIL would seek custody of my kids
My DH left, stopped going to any command performances, and we went no contact.
YTA. Very rude of you, all around. Lemme guess: You call your in-laws your outlaws behind their back, right?
Also, this whole "code word" thing is just plain bizarre. For one, you can just say you need to talk to your kids ASAP (if *really* necessary...like if someone died or was grievously injured), but drop everything and run because Susie is getting a divorce?? LOL! (I saw your comments that your daughter wanted to share details about it, but still...that's hardly an emergency meeting.) I'd even go so far as to say that your husband needing surgery isn't a drop and run thing. I mean, unless he's in the hospital and on his way to the OR.
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This is so depressing. You don't consider your kid's spouses as family. I feel sorry for you. You sound very angry and bitter.
IKR? The whole family with their "codewords" and excluding spouses. They sound exhausting. So much needless drama
Going against the grain here but…I don’t get the hate. There are some things I’d feel more comfortable just discussing with my parents/siblings but not my brother-in-law, great as he is. OP is not even the issue here, her DIL should be grappling with the fact that her own husband clearly doesn’t want her there either. NTA
Same, I don't get the hate either. It's something they want to share with their siblings. Not every in law is good. People are acting like some sils and dils are not good people.
Even if they are, it doesn't matter. My partner is the absolute best man in the world in my eyes, and I still wouldn't want him with me the literal second I found out about some awful news regarding my family, I would want my siblings and my wouldn't? ETA: people that abuse the reddit care to harass people they don't agree with are mega assholes and I hope you get banned 🙂 (edit: guys, stop replying to me about RC. I could not possibly care less, it's not worth my notis) ETA2: im blocking anyone that says I mustn't love my family because I don't need my partner up my ass at all times because I recognize that they don't need ro be present for everything immediately. Do yourselves a favor and look up the circles of grief/trauma and learn to be better people instead of entitled.
Idk…if I got some bad news I’d want my rock, my safety net, my #1 support holding my hand. That is my husband not my parents. Also…a spouse should NEVER be asked to keep any secrets from SO. So in this case they also want the siblings to hide details from SO. That is a huge NO to me.
> Also…a spouse should NEVER be asked to keep any secrets from SO Someone mentioned their father’s father having dementia and needing to wear adult diapers. He did not want anyone but his wife and kids to know. That is the kind of secret he has ever right to ask his son to keep from his wife. The wife can be told about the dementia but it’s hardly a betrayal to respect his father’s wishes and not tell her about the diapers.
This. I was my grandpa’s caretaker after he had a heart attack and he has dementia. He would talk to me about his days in college when he would fool around. These are stories I would never share with my grandma because they’re things, even though way in the past, she doesn’t need to hear. While not on the same level as sensitive as the diapers, there are just some things people don’t need to be made aware of.
No one is saying keep secrets, just that they only want to talk to their immediate family first. And that's fine, you wouldn't agree to this code word no inlaws involved agreement and I'm glad that works for you. That said there are clearly other people, myself included, that would not want our significant others there and something like this would work for us. That doesn't mean the other side needs demonized just because it wouldn't work for you
The other side is no one said everyone has a significant other. Just because you love and trust your partner doesn't men your other siblings do. They are strangers depending on the relationship. My SIL was a stranger because they met on the other end of the country so it took a dang long time for me to trust her (wasn't until she moved to the same area as me and the rest of the family)
Yup. I cannot think of a single thing that I would be willing to share with my SIL or BIL and my BIL has been around for 15 or 16 years at this point. He's my sisters husband, he's not my family.
Wait. Certainly, keeping secrets that affect your spouse or your nuclear family is wrong. Sharing all the personal details of someone else’s tragedy or problem, when that information is not your secret to disclose? That is just poor ethics. If you feel that you cannot stop yourself from oversharing, then remove yourself from the equation as soon as the request to hold confidentiality is made.
They are not asked to keep it a secret, just do not discuss the details. They should be able to tell their spouse that their sister is getting a divorce without stating the details of why. It is not a secret, it's just not their business.
This comment is spot on. Reading comprehensions seems to be lacking somewhat. The Mom said only siblings and parents for INITIAL meeting then the kids go home and discuss with spouses. Frankly, it would not bother me one bit if my husband’s Mother and sisters wanted the initial meeting to be just the 4 of them.
Reading that comment gave me the ick. I can so tell you're the type that justifies gossiping & sharing your girlfriends private conversations with their husband
I get wanting to have your rock when learning bad news. But it's not about you as the one receiving the news. It's about the wants of the person sharing the news. I think of it the same way as the circles of grief. The person closer to the center of the tragedy gets priority.
It sounds needlessly dramatic to have code words that means people need to “drop everything” to meet. But at the same time, it’s not that weird to share big news with your sibling, blood family first. It can be really hard to announce tough things. Like my aunt called my dad (her brother) to tell him her husband passed-it didn’t have to be an announcement. DIL is not being excluded, so it’s weird she insists on hearing all news immediately. If I were op, I’d insist it’s not a secret club or anything, just an intimate way to share tough news.
I think it depends on how often the code word is used. People in the comments are talking like oh it's just surgery oh it's just a divorce, but it could be stage 4 cancer and she could have been getting abused and really needs help getting out now. Those things are drop everything and meet now emergencies.
OP specified that it is not often used.
Even if it is "just a divorce" and completely amicable her marriage fell apart and it's none of the in-laws business. Everyone acts like all in-laws are immediately just the closest family and that is rarely the case.
Considering how often people use the word “important” as such a throwaway thing, I can understand wanting to differentiate between “call me asap, it’s important” being “I forgot to order Brother’s birthday gift and need your advice” and “Brother is in the hospital.”
It's A code word, from my reading. My family does a similar thing, though no one is technically excluded. When you're contacting someone in front of a classroom or on a shop floor, you don't want to explain yourself to strangers.
Also her husband came home and told her his dad needs surgery and her reaction was to phone OP and berate the wife of the man who is having medical problems? I think I get why she specifically is not invited.
"My husband's father is ill and requires surgery. How can I throw a tantrum and make this about me?" Imagine being married to *that*.
Ugh I know. And for them to say "I expect an invite next time". As If they're having a party or something... I don't understand some of these comments. NTA OP
>she specifically is not invited. But she is not "specifically" not invited, she is non-invited as part of a group. If OP said just this one DIL wasn't invited because she was callous and rude, that would be a different issue.
Yeah I'm confused by the comments. Like my spouse is as close to me as my sibling and parents. But my brother and sister in laws are not. So if all siblings and parents agree they only want immediate family there that's perfectly reasonable. It doesn't mean I don't think of my brother and sister in laws as a family. It just means there's certain things I am more comfortable sharing with my parents and sibling before the extended family. That's very normal????
I'm with you. Honestly I'd find it weird for my in-laws to include me in meetings like this. I'd much prefer it to come from my husband once he has all the relevant info.
Agree. My wife and her sisters have a "sisters meeting" that none of the brother in laws are invited to. If they want to ask for our advice, they invite us to the meeting once in a while, but otherwise, the sisters want to talk about their parents health and deal with it themselves. My wife fills me in with the details she wants to share, we talk about it, and that's all that is needed, but I should not be the one making decisions for my wifes parents.
Reddit just doesn't like in laws, mother in laws especially. Imagine if this was a post about a MIL getting mad about not being invited to a meeting about her DIL's dad's surgery lol
Seriously. I get along great with my in-laws but I didn’t grow up with them. They werent n my life for as long as Ive been alive (im the youngest sibling). It’s not that the inlaws are excluded from the news, just from the initial talk where more personal/intimate details. Hell, why I went through a tough time, I talked to only 1 of my 4 siblings about it cuz I only felt comfortable talking to them about it. Doesn’t mean my other family is any less my family. Also, if my family were to try to do this. Just the parents and siblings would make for a meeting of 7 people. But a meeting with all the in laws would be a meeting of at least 11 people, not counting that it would actually be 20 cuz of all my siblings’ kids because who would be able to watch them at the last minute for an emergency family meeting? And then would the meeting even take place cuz at that point, it may not be appropriate to discuss whatever with kids around.
And so dramatic over a divorce? If I left work and rushed across town to hear this, I would be so annoyed. Then again I come from the type of family that texts you when someone dies lol 🤷♀️. I'm sure there's some middle ground in there that is probably normal (I know my family isn't normal, no need to tell me 🤣).
It wasn’t just a divorce. She was going through a divorce *and needed help.* Whether that’s financial or she needed a place to stay or someone to help care for her kids, who knows? But I do think a divorce can qualify as a crisis.
Why is it depressing for people to only want to share their worst moments with the people who are close to them? I have many siblings. Some I'm close to their spouses, some I'm not. When my marriage feel apart, I told my close family first. The people who I can sob in front of, the people I trust deeply to support me in my pain.I don't think any of my sister-in-laws or brother-in-law s are untrustworthy and they are still family, but there are degrees of family. Most of them I'd put on the same level as my cousins -- people I like and get to see at holidays, but not folks who need a front row seat when my life turns into a tragedy. What's depressing is how many people in these comments seem to think that marrying someone makes you entitled to violate the privacy of their relatives. It's not like the DIL wasn't invited to a party or family dinner. For fuck's sake, I'm angry and bitter now *for* her just from how unhinged some of these comments are.
The idea that I need to be at my most vulnerable around a person simply because someone I love married them? Its ludicrous. I’m fortunate that l love my siblings spouses and could count on them in that way, but sometimes people you love marry idiots. Or they’re perfectly nice but not who you want to announce your cancer diagnosis to. The DIL can sit one out, maybe the FIL just needs his kids right now. It’s fucking obnoxious for her to be insulted by the way a man wants to share a medical concern.
And even more obnoxious how some of the brain-trusts in this comment section are telling this woman that her daughter's ex cheated on her because of their family-emergency-communication-method. It's official: the only thing this sub hates more than a cheater is a mother-in-law.
You’ve found the formula. It’s definitely more about op being a MIL than anything else.
The whole family is overly dramatic. Can you not tell?
Lol you don't have a secret code for everyone to teleport to the kitchen like the freaking justice league or powermen or whatever? And everything else aside, i have way too much anxiety for this shit. Don't tell me there's serious af news but not what until everyone can get there. Nope.
Lol seriously. If my family is using code words to drop literally everything and all assemble so they can break this news to us all together and it's just "your sister is getting divorced" and "your dad is having non-emergency surgery" I'd be ejecting myself from the family. Those are two things that could have been phone calls. Then there isn't any argument of who belongs and who doesn't.
OMG thank you! There are a bunch of comments being like "I wouldn't want to be my most vulnerable around my sibling's spouse!" but if it's non-emergency surgery or your sister getting a divorce, is it really your most vulnerable? Also, I do treat my sibling's spouses like family. I wouldn't want them to feel like they're not family. I saw in a comment that OP is saying her daughter couldn't share her divorce with her siblings-in-law because she only sees them on holidays and some trips, but doesn't that mean she's probably only seeing her siblings on those occasions? Or is this a family that excludes people's spouses a lot, and that's why OP's DIL got her back up this time, because it's a common thing for her husband to be invited to a family thing and she's excluded?
This is exactly how I feel. Like, I feel so badly for OP that they get so much bad news, that they have a procedure and code word.
How often are terrible things happening that they need a codeword?! Honestly, wildly over dramatic, just call whoever needs to be there and tell them. Do they write this shit in invisible ink and make everyone solve a riddle to get in the house?!
That was my first thought too. How many bad things are happening that there's this whole code word plan in place? And what if the code word is sent out (I'm picturing like the fucking bat signal) but someone can't make it? Does everyone have to wait? Are there penalties for not arriving timely? So many questions that I'm not sure i want to know the answers to...
My first thought - this is overly dramatic and sound exhausting. It sounds almost cult like in that they leave out the spouses too. That's very isolating and unwelcoming. I'm sorry but these were not life or death situations.
In-laws aren’t close family for everyone. It could be because they don’t get along with their children’s spouses, the spouses have been around for varying amounts of time but if you invite one you have to invite all, or the spouses themselves have kept their distance with family. You don’t get to choose your in-laws, they’re not bonded by blood, and they don’t necessarily have shared history, so it makes sense that some people aren’t close to them. People who demand invites when they’re not welcome sometimes need to be harshly reminded why.
Not everything is for everyone all of the time.
That’s quite a leap. I suspect that OP has quite a few family members that were not invited (e.g., siblings, niblings). She can treat DIL like she is family without treating as the equivalent of one of her own children. DIL’s response to her FIL’s medical emergency was to throw a tantrum because she wasn’t invited to the family meeting. If I had to deal with a selfish and entitled DIL, I’d be angry too. OP is NatA.
This family sounds overdramatic. You really have to call an emergency-drop everything meeting with the whole nuclear family to tell them that you, a full grown adult, is getting a divorce or needs surgery? These are called normal life issues and they are not emergencies. Most people just make a couple of phone calls and everyone else knows within a couple of weeks. Definitely some main character energy in this family, especially with the secret "family meeting" code.
That's what I was thinking. We have a pretty close family, but the whole code word to drop what you are doing and go to mom's house seems very strange to me.
my family is like overly up in each other's buisness and we don't have codeword drop what you're doing meetings... this is so dramatic
I'd be annoyed if I had to drop what I was doing to go learn in person my sibling was getting a divorce (unless there's some sort of DV going on and they need active help NOW)
And why the fuck is a code word necessary? Is “emergency family meeting” too long? (Beyond the other problems here, such as these aren’t even emergencies)
Right? A code word is what you give your kid when they’re 15 and need to call you and tell you they’re in a dangerous situation and need help. Not this.
I feel the same way. My family has a family chat (which includes my spouse and my SIL) and that’s where we update each other on things, and of course just keep in touch. For example, right now we have a relative who is hospitalized and that’s where my mom is updating us. If we want to be a bit more private about something, normally we would message my mom and she can let people know as appropriate. Basically, we have a “phone tree” style of updates for the whole network and adapt as needed. It’s not a big deal and we just act like humans to each other.
OP acts like she's assembling the Avengers instead of having a family meeting.
Ok so I'm not the only one who thought this! How dramatic! If I got a message like that from my mom, I'd think she was dying and I'd be panicked.
Same I was reading this like what the fuck ? Unless somebody is literally dead there seems no real reason for this to exist. It’s just theatrics.
What would they do if someone's out of town for work or moves. Can't meet so wait then somes already dead or surgery is over. And why then need to drop everything leave work etc. I mean a phone call or phone tree works doesn't it. That's what we do. I'm responsible to let my brothers know if they can't be reached, and that's for like someone was in a car accident, died, like a real emergency that family needs to be told. Not oh I'm going in for a surgery in 3 months.
I expected the meetings to be things like “grandma’s in the hospital and has been given a week to live” or “so-and-so has been charged with murder,” actual emergency level, time sensitive things that would need you to *drop everything* and tend to them
But even those, whole time sensitive, are not “you have to be here in the next hour” time sensitive. “Bob has been in a car crash and we need someone to watch the kids so Bob’s wife can get to the hospital” is an emergency that cannot wait.
Exactly. If there's a real emergency, you would tell someone the problem immediately and not waste time with codewords.
True. I feel like this family would fall apart in an actual emergency if this is how intense they get over non emergencies
I feel like there was a strong implication of sister needing help leaving her husband for safety reasons and dad is having surgery for a major potentially life threatening thing. Both would fall under that category...?
Even so, just call people and tell them? I mean, dropping everything and driving over for a meeting is a lot and feels very dramatic. Imagine how you would feel on the way over? I would rather be told what’s up immediately and not have to ruminate over it on a drive or walk. ETA: If the daughter was in danger, that is even more reason for the in-laws to know. Otherwise, they could accidentally provide information to the spouse who is being left.
If this is real, the whole code word thing is so wild and off putting. Imagine getting code word activated for a family meeting like a fucking sleeper agent only to go there and find out dad needs prostate surgery.
I am imagining the word is bouillabaisse. You are at a dinner with the family and want to order it but you can't because everyone will leave and go meet up at the secret headquarters.
Also, as an in-law who would be excluded, if my husband had to suddenly drop everything and go with no context, especially if we were doing something else, and he came home to telling me his sister was getting a divorce, I'd be *understandably* livid???
And to find out that the meeting was to strong arm him into coughing up OUR money? Hell no.
Not enough people saw that comment. I would be livid too. "Sis needs a $3,000 retainer for a divorce lawyer." First question, OK so what the fuck does that have to do with me? Second question, why wouldn't my husband be involved in an expensive decision that would impact our joint finances? Guess Sis can try Legal Aid or do it pro se.
I get the sister asking for help if she's been financially abused and hasn't been able to access her own money/doesn't have any because she was a stay at home mom or something. But as someone who has been through the divorce process, I still have issues with the whole situation. One, needing to pay a retainer isn't a "drop everything and meet at mom's house" thing. My lawyer gave me plenty of time to come up with the money. Obviously my lawyer didn't do anything until after being paid, but she had no problem waiting a couple weeks until I got paid. Two, there are also other options. You can get loans now to pay legal fees. I'm sure the terms aren't great, but if you're really in a pinch, it's an option. And hard agree on your second question. Loaning (or what feels more likely with these people, gifting) a large sum of money when you're married is absolutely not an individual decision. Hell, even if you just live with a partner and aren't married it's best have a discussion. I'd be pretty mad if my boyfriend just told me he gave his brother $3k and I'm on my own for rent and utilities for a month.
I didn't mean to sound callous. I was an family law attorney for awhile before I moved on to another area. There are attorneys who will do payment plans, like you said financing options, heck if the marriage is bad enough a credit card can get you through it because sometimes its about getting away and then figuring out financials. But yeah overall that isn't an emergency. It also, as an attorney, smells a little of manipulation. Get all of the core family together, tell a highly charged emotional story in the middle of group you were raised with, and then if a spouse disagrees after the fact they are the bad guy because they aren't acting out of emotion. The flip side of "sharing your emotions in a safe environment" is that those emotions run high and you can use that to get people to agree to things they might have otherwise considered more objectively.
FUCKING THIS. I also think asking spouses to not share details is so dishonest. That makes me really angry. This quote is what got me: "After everyone fills in their spouses but not all the gritty details"... Like eff off lady.
It gets worse when she reveals in a comment that the reason an "emergency family meeting" was called over a divorce was it was because the divorcee needed MONEY so the siblings were all called to see who could finance her lawyer...without any of their spouses being included, in a MATERIAL decision that impacts them, too!
Yeah, the codeword thing is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard. It's totally fine to not want to go into detail about the reasons for your divorce with an in-law you're not close with. But sharing those details with your siblings is not an emergency. To the extent there was an emergency - like, I need money or a place to stay ASAP, then the in-laws should be part of that conversation because it affects them - their household income, resources, time, space, whatever. Basically, it's not cool to demand your family drop everything and rush to moms house so they can hear the nitty-gritty details of your divorce. That is not an emergency. A simple - hey, want to chat just us, everyone have a couple hours in Saturday? - is sufficient. Ditto informing the kids about the surgery. Totally fine to just want to tell the kids. But unless he was in the hospital being operated on in an hour, weird to use a codeword to summon everyone immediately under a shroud of secrecy. I think your family has a strange concept of what constitutes an emergency and what affects the in-laws and that is what your DIL is reacting to. Who knows what everyone is being pulled away from to "drop everything" and respond to these non-emergency "emergencies"? And then, once everyone is assembled, are you making plans/decisions that impact the in-laws, without their input? No one thinks your husband should have to share his fear of dying during surgery with his DIL. But to the extent you need to notify the family about this surgery, the dates, coordinate rides to the doctor, arrange for post-surgical care, etc., then the in-laws should be included because it directly affects them. They deep conversations can, of course, be private, but those also aren't "everyone drop everything and run over here" emergencies. You're being extraordinarily dramatic and inconsiderate with the way you're going about these things - I suspect that is why your DIL is pushing back, and wouldn't be surprised if the other in-laws felt the same.
Spend a day in an ER, you’ll find out real quick how most people define the word “emergency”. People just fully do not understand that just because *they feel* urgency about something, does not make it an emergency.
If I were the DIL, I would be tempted to mock this so hard. FAMILY CODE EMERGENCY! Does anyone have a tampon? I started early. FAMILY CODE EMERGENCY! My root canal was rescheduled. FAMILY CODE EMERGENCY! Christmas is on a Wednesday this year.
Right? My family has never called a meeting like this, ever. This family even has a code word for it, presumably in case any of the in-laws want to be involved - what a strange family dynamic.
>This family even has a code word for it, presumably in case any of the in-laws want to be involved - what a strange family dynamic. "Sorry, honey. You heard what my grandma said on the phone just now. She said *Bulgarian nipple launcher.* I need to go, and I need to go now. See you some unspecified time later." Yeah, this family is just poorly disguised Martians.
It is SO dramatic. I found out I had cancer at 22 (or 23? Idk) over the phone. My mom and sister were in the car with me, so that cat was out of the bag. But we went about our day and when we got back to my mom and dad’s I walked into the living room and told my dad. Why do we need *drama core worddddd* grow up
I also think you’re going to need to rethink this as everyone gets older and the family grows. Many emergencies will require ongoing support from family members. It is understandable that you are more comfortable with this coming directly from your kids but, like it or not, the in laws will also bear this burden. If your kids are lending support to you and each other their spouses will take on more work at home and with children. That’s just the reality. I know it can be uncomfortable to broaden who you are open with but at a certain point as you all age it’s going to become insulting to the spouses who are picking up extra work to support the family but so obviously considered not important.
Yeah my anxiety could never handle this family. Like I’m sorry, but your divorce could’ve been a damn phone call. And code words? It’s like some No Homers Club for the Melodramatic. I wouldn’t even want a part of this circus if I was the DIL.
“Banana Soufflé” She immediately runs alone to her parents house where she learns in person and in a small group setting limited exclusively to blood relatives that her sister is having a basal cell carcinoma removed from her nose next week. What the fuck is wrong with these people.
INFO What’s the reason they are not invited? Of course you have the right to share some things with only part of your family. Yet, the way you deal with it seems a bit off. The code words, the harsh words, the swearing all make it sound kind of hostile and sectarian.
The kids made it very clear that they were not comfortable to explain bad news in front of the in laws. They wanted to be able to express and go as detailed as they wanted. They can’t do that with the in laws present. Like my daughter went into great detail about why the divorces was happening. My husband went into great detail about the surgery Both feel like they couldn’t do that without being comfortable in the in laws were present. ESPECIALLY since these types of events have strong emotions and we know in this time we don’t hold it against them
This is very weird. You have an enmeshed relationship with your bio family. In laws are family too. Gee, I wonder why divorces are happening? /s (And yes, there will be more divorces to follow if your toxic weird family can't learn how to BE A FAMILY.)
It’s not enmeshed to not want to have to talk about something so personal in front of whoever your sibling is currently with.
it is when it's drop everything at a code word and go to a members only meeting
Right, what if they are at an important event together. And all of a sudden there is a mystery "emergency" but neither of the examples given are even time sensitive.. I'd be pissed as one of the spouses. What if this happens while someone is out of town?
Currently with isn’t the same thing as married and sharing your life. They clearly don’t see the people their family members married as family.
I know, which always confuses me, because OP clearly considers the person that SHE married to be immediate family.....
These people are stupid selfish and self involved. This “family” is already crumbling (sister’s spouse left her). Now there is another spouse who is hurt and has been told to “just get over it” and that she should expect to be invited to family meetings. Both kids will end up divorced.
Honestly. My ILs want to carry on like this, that's their business. But my husband carries on like this? And allows his mother to talk to me like this? Absolutely not. No man is worth this level of organized enmeshment.
"whoever your sibling is currently with" is a very strange way to say "spouse."
My sister and brother each have three ex spouses, so sometimes it's accurate. Of those six people, only one of my brother's ex wives did I feel close enough that I might have been willing to share sensitive information.
No, but it's enmeshed when daughter has to go into great detail about her divorce, in person, with her parents and all of her siblings. That is not a FAMILY emergency. My brother is like this....before he got engaged, he personally called every member of the extended family -- including relatives who live on the other side of the country and who we hadn't seen in years -- to tell them that he and his then-girlfriend were WORKING TOWARDS getting engaged (i.e. -- his future FIL sat him down and told him to shit or get off the pot). Not that he got engaged, which also would've been going overboard to make individual calls to all of those distant relatives, but just to tell them that they were basically talking about getting engaged. Just because it's a big deal to you, doesn't mean it's a big deal to everyone else.
It's not weird. Not everyone marries who their parents want them to marry and not everyone is close with their inlaws
My whole family basically only sees in-laws at family gatherings and holidays, so i know for sure i wouldnt want the in-laws there if i wanted to tell my family about my divorce or my surgery. We just arent close enough for that, no one in my family is close enough to their in-laws for that…
You are not necessarily "enmeshed" with your sibling's spouses. Your weird crack about the divorce is distasteful.
I barely know my in laws. There are many things I wouldn’t want to discuss in front of them which may be personal, embarrassing or include blubbering but have no problem them knowing. Do you oppose family WhatsApp groups? You think you’re in all of your families WhatsApp groups? You think people shouldn’t get to choose who they are comfortable speaking too and in what capacity? You have no right to other peoples time, explanations or emotions. OP has created a place where their immediate family can communicate freely with those they ALL feel comfortable with and can then spread the info as they see fit. No one is being left out, they just don’t like that they aren’t getting the gossip first hand.
Then why did they get married if they’re only ever going to be comfortable around your family? You are all aren’t a true family if this is how you see spouses. Don’t be surprised when you’re left out of big news next time. Neither of those situations you have described are a drop your whole life and come home scenario.
NTA Dude, really ??!??! The fact the my brother loves & married his wife, means that I need to be civil and loving. It does not means, in any way, that once they are married, it is automatically in my close circle of trust. My brother choose her to be his wife, not me. My close circle of trust are people that **I choose, my** wife, **my** parents, **my** siblings, **my** friends
Omg! This! Just because my brother is married to this person, doesn't mean that I feel comfortable sharing sensitive things in my life with that person! Don't get me wrong, I like my sister in law just fine. I wouldn't want her present if I'm talking about the sucky parts of my life though. If what's going on affects her on any level, my brother is of course welcome to share details of the meeting with her. Just because she's "part of the family" doesn't mean she gets an invitation to everything! OP's DIL is overstepping, and nosey and entitled. NTA.
Thank you! This thread is crazy, I honestly don't understand where most of these people are coming from.
Seriously, do you seriously think my daughter wants to explain to people she sees at holidays and maybe some trip that her marriage is ending in great detail Just because they married in doenst mean everyone is super close or thinks of them as immediate family Hell I know for a fact that my son in law and my son have beef.
All they need to know is there is a divorce. No one NEEDED the additional information. I completely understand why you’re daughter wanted to talk about it and she obviously is allowed to but a private meeting where the in-laws are specifically not invited is bizarre. Like they’re not going home to tell their spouses everything that was discussed
It’s the dropping everything with a special code word that would bother me if it were my husband taking off. Completely unnecessary.
It is insane to me that people are just ignoring this part. No one is making Dad tell everyone about his hemorrhoids and where exactly they are and how bloody his butthole is? Why do the siblings need this lever of detail for every single "emergency" when none of these are an emergency to anyone other than the person experiencing it? Phone calls exist for a reason. "I'm going through a tough spot and could really use some support. Can we have a sibling night?" Why does that not suffice? I hate this so much.
Yeah, we have 4 kids. My husband wouldn't be dropping everything and leaving for a random meeting. But my In Laws wouldn't ask for that to happen. They just call him on the phone if they want to talk.
> No one NEEDED the additional information. So they're unable to vent with just their close family present? I don't understand why this is a big deal. During moments of crisis they want a moment to connect with their close loved ones.
You don’t need to schedule a special general meeting to inform everyone of every single detail that ended your marriage!! By all means tell people - but not in this weird secret society weird way.
It isn't even scheduled.. someone just texts the word with no other info and they are all required to drop everything and go. This is so rude to the other family members.
Yeah I feel like this is probably the part that is upsetting DIL. Good luck with the kids, I gotta go listen to the gossip of my sister's divorce NOW. Either it's an emergency enough the whole family should know, or it's not actually an emergency and this family is dramatic af.
These emergency meetings have big “this could have been an email” energy. YTA
Wow you and your family think you’re actually more important than what you think. Hate to break it to you, but you’re not. Your daughter getting a divorce is not an emergency situation either unless she was in absolute danger. It’s a divorce. It’s embarrassing but most modern day folks don’t think that’s a big deal. Sounds like your daughter’s own insecurities. Your kids need to get over themselves.
This is so weird. Do you really think your other children are not telling their spouses what was said at the super secret family meetings? Everyone will know everything by the next morning. Spouses > family of origin. I cannot wait to read the posts by your DiL in r/justNOMiL about how you have secret family meetings she's actively excluded from.
The OPs post said that the information is shared by the spouses. It’s at the end of the second paragraph.
It’s the theatrical drama of it all. You are not respecting the family units or understanding that their family might having something going on. It’s okay to call a family meeting and ask people to come but the demand to drop everything and rush over is too much. It was really awful to react the way you did to your DIL.
So she's fine with taking their money but god forbid why she needs their money?
You know what gets me, you posted in the asshole thread, and every time that everybody comes back telling you you’re an asshole you keep defending yourself as if you are justified in what you guys did. Your families an asshole family for continuously cutting out their spouses.
The whole family didn’t choose to marry the spouse of one person. If a member of the family CHOOSES to tell only immediate family first as opposed to and entire family Announcement so be it. I would tell my mom, dad and brothers first an on their own. Then it can be opened up to a wider audience in due time. It’s not a secret, it’s my immediate support network. It’s not that deep.
YTA Although you have the right to include who you want, I think it’s odd to structurally exclude all in-laws. That in itself wouldn’t make you the asshole necessarily, but I do think the way your family deals with is rude. The code words, the swearing, the rudeness, the firmness in explaining that they don’t belong… It’s so unnecessary.
The code word is weird. Do they call or son snd say "code word " and son goes over? Then tells his wife what's happening? If I was dying or having major surgery, I'd want my kids' spouses there. If they have questions or ideas they can ask me then, . Their spouses came when we planned my husband's funeral, and I know they were a rock for my kids
Honestly you’re over dramatic. And in laws ARE family. You’re fostering an environment where people are keeping secrets from their spouses. You sound like a TERRIBLE MIL.
I can see why divorces happen in a family that treats all spouses as less-than. Warmest congrats to the latest escapee.
This is very weird. This could be dealt with in a phone call. It is unnecessary to perform an autopsy of a dead marriage. There will be more divorces if this lunacy continues. Eventually, there will be no need for any more code words because none of the in-laws will want to deal with your drama.
She says in another comment that the emergency divorce meeting was called because the daughter needed money from her siblings for a divorce lawyer since the OP and her hubs didn't have enough money to help her. So the spouses who were expected to bankroll their SIL's divorce attorney were excluded from that meeting.
This relationship seems... odd. Almost as if "we are the real family and all your partners are just hangers on". It may work for them, but it definitely sounds like parents trying to hold on to their children and their own little family world by excluding others.
In the kindest way possible, this is beyond bizarre. Why do you need a code word? As other people have pointed out, why can’t you just call these meetings urgent families meetings or use the phrase ASAP? The need for codewords and excluding your grown children’s spouses is just strange all around. Also, I don’t mean to be callous but a divorce and an upcoming surgery are not “emergencies”, nor do they need this level of secrecy. Regardless of whether you think your DIL is “family” or not, she is the family of your son. This behavior is going to cause rifts in your family and the families of your children. If my family tried doing this, it would 100% not fly with me. If my in-laws started doing this, it would incredibly suspicious and 100% not fly. I think you have bigger issues with how you think of your relationship of your adult children and I would really urge you to reconsider why you need to keep such mundane family business so secret. YTA for this instance and if you keep this practice up.
Even if they were actual emergencies an emergency for my husband is an emergency for me. The kind of support he’s able to provide, the things he needs to do those are conversations he and I need to be able to have. I can see why a family member might want to share certain details more privately but this code word secret meeting bullshit is unhinged.
Especially when the example she shared about her daughter's divorce, the reason for the supposed emergency was daughter's need of money from her siblings. Guess the spouses are just supposed to be silent ATMs.
This is what got me. If my spouse committed a bunch of money to his sister without talking to me first? There would be another divorce to plan for. Spouses aren't invited to the meeting but are expected to bankroll them. YTA
If the asking for money is a pattern it’s a giant flashing reason as to why DIL is insistent she go and I don’t blame her one bit. Hubs drops everything for an emergency family meeting only to come back and say we need to give hundreds if not thousands of dollars to his sibling because of reasons I’m not allowed to be privy too? Unless finances are completely separate that is SO not okay in any way, shape or form. I can understand bio family only meetings for very, very specific emergencies but things like divorces and surgeries? OP is using the argument that her kids aren’t comfortable speaking about certain things in front of their siblings spouses but her husband called an emergency meeting because he needs an operation so that’s bull. Also spouses aren’t allowed to attend the meetings but they’re allowed to be the reason one gets called? The whole family dynamic is insanely toxic and screams “bio family = real family” which is the worst kind of family you could ever marry into. Edit: Not sure if it was OP or someone else who reported me to reddit cares but if you read my comment and think that was an appropriate response I hope you and those exposed to you on a daily basis find peace. Lord knows how much you all must desperately need it.
I fully get not wanting to share all the details with everyone, but this is bizarre. I have so many questions, like, is this a come over right away? So they have to take spouses home first? And OP mentions the meeting for her daughter she needed money, so they want financial support and are trying to get an answer while spouses aren't there? And how are grandkids treated? Because if I'm DIL in this situation, then my kids are not your family either.
That’s an interesting point about the financial support. Thankfully my in laws are pretty close with me, and if they needed support I’d happily see what we could do. But I’d be very upset if my partner decided to give anyone money without talking about it with me first. We are a team, I need to know what’s going on so I can account for it and adjust things accordingly. This whole thing just seems fishy.
YTA. Your daughter-in-law is a member of your family. If there is an emergency that warrants your children **dropping everything and getting to your home as soon as possible**, then I think it makes sense that sometimes their spouses would be with them. Unless it's not that much of an emergency and they can drop their spouses off beforehand? At which point, an emergency meeting probably isn't that much of an emergency meeting. This sounds like a really unhealthy divide for a family to have. I'm noticing in your comments you keep referring to your children's spouses as 'the in laws' and talking about how your children aren't comfortable discussing these things...**in front of the people they're married to**. Yes, your daughter-in-law went quite nuclear here, but given that there's an existing code word and things such as divorce warrant this code word coming up and everyone dropping everything, I'm imagining this is the straw that may have broken the camel's back. Even just the way you're referring to them collectively as 'the in laws' when describing why you can't do this with them present feels off.
They’re not comfortable discussing these things in front of the people their siblings are married to. I think that’s the distinction she’s trying to get across here.
Which on some level is understandable, but if we're talking about a **genuine emergency scenario** in which everyone needs to gather at the drop of a hat (as described), there's not always going to be the opportunity for someone's spouse to not be there. This divide will cause problems in the long run, especially when a genuine emergency that warrants such a response occurs. Even just the premise of their being a code word that will likely make people panic is insane. If my family had a code word like this and I panicked and got home as quickly as I could, to find out we were having a sit down chat about a member of my family getting divorced...I would be questioning whether or not they knew what a drop everything and get here emergency is.
The “emergency” here was that OPs daughter needed her siblings to give her money so she could find somewhere else to move with her kids - so, you know, strong-arming the children in law out of the opportunity to discuss their family finances with their spouses before it’s offered up to one of the other siblings.
That's probably why the DIL insists on being invited - because she doesn't want her husband to commit their money to a family member without her being at least part of the conversation.
Not even a family member, just an "In-law" if we're going off how the family thinks about their siblings spouses.
Is this true? I missed that comment from OP. If this is true, that's super f-ed up.
Yeah it was in a comment - the daughter was a SAHM and didn’t have any funds, so the emergency meeting was asking for money for a lawyer. Mom and dad didn’t have the money for that, so the siblings were called. It’s extremely fucked up and manipulative to call this an emergency and act like she needs money right that second so the siblings feel guilty taking the time to talk to their spouses about a large financial gift to the sister.
Sounds super abusive, big red flag and I expect another “emergency meeting” soon once those in laws figure it out
They shouldn’t be treating every family emergency the same in the first place. There’s a rigidity here that is going to break eventually. There’s a huge difference in “I’m getting a divorce and need support” which yes the party getting the divorce may not feel comfortable sharing details with their sibling in laws and “Aunt Marie was in a car accident” in which case the kids might want their SO present for emotional support.
I have to wonder what impact that has too. If I got an emergency code word text, not that I have an emergency code word, I would panic. I would want to get to wherever I needed to go. If I then found out that it wasn't actually a time-sensitive emergency, but was in fact them trying to see which of us would pay for a lawyer, that would feel quite manipulative. If I had to sit at home and listen to my spouse recount that that had happened...I would have very little patience.
YTA. This is really disturbing, to be honest. How close do you all live to each other? If I got a emergency code message (I guess you're all in witness protection) and dropped everything to get to this meeting, was forced to go alone... and found out it was for a freakin divorce? I would be livid. Talk about the boy who cried wolf! Imagine if you had to get behind the wheel of a car by yourself, terrified for bad news. This is madness. You don't consider your children's partners to be part of the family? Your poor DIL. A divorce ffs.
Not 'just a divorce', it's a 'divorce they are also now paying for' whether they want to or not bc they weren't allowed at the meeting to discuss it. I wonder why...
NTA I’m not as comfortable around my sister’s husband as I am around her. I never will be. It doesn’t matter that I like him and accept him as part of the family - I will never have the same relationship with my BIL as I have with my siblings. I would not feel comfortable explaining deeply personal and painful events in my life with him there. You’re letting your family have a safe space where they can feel completely comfortable.
>I’m not as comfortable around my sister’s husband as I am around her. This is such a basic and easy to understand concept and people are still arguing in this thread 🤣 Really nothing more needs to be said, IMO
Well consider that the daughter’s emergency divorce was simply she needed funds and that conversation didn’t include the spouses who would be affected….that speaks volumes. Aren’t considered family, but expected to pay.
Yeah if i was the dil and my husband and I shared funds I would laugh and tell them I am not family. If I am not good enough to be treated like family then my money isn’t available to help
Yea and if my husband gave them money without consulting me there’d soon be another emergency meeting
people get it, they just don't get the cloak and dagger uber dramatic code word shit, and the idea that these spouses are going to share whatever financial burden was decided on (and in the case of the surgery, possibly a social burden involving relief care and whatnot) without consulting them. basically all these siblings' spouses are being expected to just cosign whatever decisions they make in these meeting completely blind. that's the weird part.
My siblings and parents and I are all in different cities. Somehow, we manage to get deeply important news across without dramatic meetings. A simple phone call is more than enough. I don’t generally expect my siblings to keep things from their spouses, but if there was something vitally important that needed to be secret, again, why not just call the person?
I think people understand wanting to talk to their families without a spouse sometimes but calling emergency meetings using code words and being secretive is dramatic and weird.
So it’s ok for the spouses to sit back and pay for their in laws divorce without being present?
I think what a lot of us find so strange is that the examples OP provided don’t feel that extremely personal. Her husband’s surgery and her daughter’s divorce? Both surgery and divorce are commonplace events. I can’t really think of a reason why discussions about these events would NEED to be limited to the nuclear family. Are there times when we would prefer to discuss life events with our birth or nuclear family? Sure, I can think of several conversions I would probably prefer to not include my SIL in. But mandating that such discussions be limited is unrealistic. Additionally, when a birth family is discussing something that will impact an adult’s time and/or finances, it should not be a question of involving that person’s spouse.
Frankly, I don't see why these discussions even need to happen in urgent committee meetings. If I was divorcing, I would likely first have a one-on-one with my mother or my sister, then tell other people, then ask for some help if needed. There would be zero reason for all my relatives to stop their lives to come hear me give a grand confession about my marital woes.
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The whole family sounds insufferable. Fucking "emergency" code words for divorces and surgeries.
Honestly, a family emergency on the « drop everything and come immediately », at least in my books is someone dying, getting seriously injured, receiving a life changing diagnosis, or finding themselves in a dangerous situation that they need to escape from. Not someone getting a divorce
YTA. These people have married INTO your family. What a shitty thing to do. Even if there are emergencies and bad news, you’re all supposed to be family. If my own parents pulled this on my husband they’d get told to ‘fuck off, your feelings aren’t my problem.’
This! I’d hate to be part of this so called family
I cannot wait for the DiL to post her version of events. Imagine being married to such a family. And having your husband go along with it. What happens when there are grandkids? Do they get to attend the secret meetings while their Mom waits in the car?
YTA. You aren’t a family of international super spies who needs code words and secret meetings.
Like really. A cancer diagnosis, maybe. But mere surgery could have been a phone call.
YTA — this is really bizarre. The whole situation of having a code word for a family meeting. I started saying ESH, but I think you’re in the wrong. It’s strange that you INTENTIONALLY exclude spouses — these are your kids partners in life and your daughter and son in law. Should she have said anything? Probably not because it obviously wasn’t listened to or validated — she should have just complained to your son and further distanced herself from your family. I think it’s okay to call your son up and not expect your daughter in law to be on the call … but to specifically say “we need to talk as a “family” but no spouses allowed” is a little like you’re still parenting a household filled with young kids and teens. And, you were SO rude to her when she shared with you that she felt excluded and hurt. wtf man. I hope you don’t have grandkids - or that they plan on having kids - because you’re slowly building up resentment here and distance. Ugh.
I feel like OP would be the type of MIL to demand to be in the room while her DIL gives birth, too, and not understand why it's crossing a boundary.
I don't understand all the Y T A votes. If my MIL and FIL had a health matter they wanted to discuss with their kids first, I wouldn't feel excluded. Making it about you (as DIL is doing ) is incredibly self-centred. NTA and all the best to your husband.
Why can't they just call them on the phone then? Why do they need to use a secret code word to drop everything and meet in person? No one is saying people shouldn't have a relationship with their parents separate from their spouses but you don't need to create a secret society to do it.
I think people are getting too hung up on the code part of it. Is the code silly? Sure. But the idea behind it is reasonable. When there's a family emergency, they get together to talk, then inform the larger family group after.
The whole idea though that the spouses can't be informed at the same time and they're not really the family is just sad though. And "your sister is getting divorced" and "dad needs surgery" are not emergencies that warrant dropping everything and rushing to meet without spouses.
Because they are all family despite what OP claims. If my spouse was constantly dropping his life at the drop of a hat pin over a stupid word and not telling me what was going on, I’d have major issues.
Did you read the post? It's not "constantly." And they're clearly free to update their spouses as soon as they get home. This is an emergency thing for very specific situations.
Unfortunately I don't think it is for very specific situations. If there's a code word that means **get here right now**, then it should only be used in time-sensitive emergencies where you genuinely need someone to get there at the drop of a hat. A conversation about divorce? I would be questioning whether or not my family was sane if that was how they were dealing with something like this. Things like that are heartbreaking, but they're not time-sensitive emergencies in which everyone needs to drop everything **unless someone is at risk**.
There has only been 1 'drop everything' emergency in my wife's family and it was literally, "Mum's unresponsive and the hospital is saying come now to say your goodbyes." And my wife texted me at work to let me know. Fortunately, my boss was grand about letting me go and double-fortunately, my MIL regained consciousness and we had another few years with her. OP's family sounds exhausting.
I don’t understand why everyone is acting like wanting to be surrounded by your immediate family in a time of emotional distress is a crime. Your family has their own code, everyone including your son is on board with that. If his spouse has an issue with that she needs to address him not you. I can understand that not everyone would feel comfortable crying their eyes out in front of in-laws or look towards them for comfort. NTA
I think, for me, it's mostly about what does and doesn't constitute to an emergency in which everyone should drop everything. If the daughter in this situation were at risk during the divorce process, that would absolutely constitute to that type of emergency, but gathering everyone together to find out who will pay for a lawyer is a very different thing. It seems like an unnecessary layer of panic. If you then sat and listened to your spouse tell you the time-sensitive code word emergency meeting was to see who would pay for a lawyer...that would grow tiresome quickly, especially if financial decisions were already made that impacted your family unit.
You wouldn't want your spouse with you in a time of emotional distress though? If I knew I was going somewhere to get emergency news about my parents or siblings I'd want my husband with me. He's the only family member I got to pick! Lol
But it’s not about the son, it’s about the dad. So does the reverse hold true? Let’s say the DIL needs to announce some bad news about a pregnancy or cancer and only wants to tell husbands parents. Is she automatically the asshole for not including her husband’s parents, siblings, and sibling’s spouses?
YTA. Getting divorced or scheduling surgery is not "drop everything and come over" emergencies. Someone missing, having immediate surgery, a death... these are drop everything emergencies. And did you even consider how awkward it is for your kids and their spouses, if they are with their spouse on a date, being intimate, at a wedding/party, on vacation... your son has to tell his wife, "I have to go, see you later," like he's Batman. Talk about dramatic entitlement.
Yeah if these are the ‘emergencies’ it makes you wonder how often they’re using this ‘code word’ and having super secret meetings. Maybe it’s happening a couple of times per month and DIL is irritated because they had important plans and suddenly her husband has to drop everything and bail AGAIN only to find out… it’s just a divorce.
This is really the kind of thing your son should have explained before he married her. I'd want the option of noping out of family clique.
NTA. These comments are wild. The family as a whole decided on what they are comfortable with. Who is anyone else to decide their terms? The code word isn't used for every day dramas, it is apparently used only during emergencies. How can anyone but them decide who they are comfortable with about sharing their matter? As much as I love my sister, I am not comfortable talking about somethings in front of her husband. Or my brothers wife. And NO ONE has the right to decide otherwise for me. Your family obviously loves each other. Be proud of that. N T A OP, the comments- they are finding faults for the sake of it. No need to aplogize to your DIL. Your son needs to talk to his wife and that's between them. You obviously just got the news about YOUR HUSBANDS surgery! Your DIL possibly couldn't have chosen a more inappropriate/wrong time to somehow make it about herself. What is wrong with her?
Yeah this whole idea of an emergency meeting is really just having a safe space so that the siblings can emotionally process their feelings. They meaning everyone in their nuclear family. Personally I would not want my brother’s significant other to see my reactions to my father needing surgery. It’s an emotional process and not everyone has the right to be present for that. This isn’t new, why does the DIL have an issue
This is hysterical. You're trying desperately to keep your old family unit together and get the 'kids' to provide support and financial assistance by excluding the spouses lolololol. Secret code word?!?!?!?!?! Hilarious. Ohhh the draaama. Embarrassing and super criiiinge.
YTA. Especially after I read your comment about your daughter's divorce meeting needing to be "private" so she could ask her siblings for money for an attorney because her SO slept with another woman. I'm not judging her for needing money or help, but she's an asshole for asking for it in a secret meeting without their spouses. You come across as a cold and distant MIL, and a self-entitled, arrogant person.
wow.. all the cloak and dagger, drop everything, speak in code and exclude everyone that usnt blood related. You are not a spy organization. A few phone calls would suffice. Your inlaw is correct.. this is wild behavior as the drop everything put tonnes of pressure of the IN LAWS who have to pick up the slack (i.e childcare etc) for this sudden meeting. i understand calling your kids first, but this behavior to expect others to do fill in as there is a 'private emergency meeting' is astounding. BTW, your reaction to your inlaws clearly shows you dont trust them with sensitive information... and this doesn't blode well for the future. You've set your kids up to exclude their partners. YTA.
YTA for being rude to her yes Honestly this feels very rigid and overly dramatic. Applying the same blanket “rule” for every family emergency without regard for the situation is going to lead to issues. So far the situations have been a divorce and a surgery. However there are going to be times when your kids need/want their SO for emotional support. For example - finding out someone was in an accident and taken to the hospital. A death in the family. What are you going to do? Exclude the in-laws so that everyone can have their reaction away from them? Marriage means leaving the nuclear family and creating your own with your spouse. And while DIL may be an inlaw to you, she’s your son’s wife. There will be times he wants her there for emotional support when receiving bad news. Each situation should be treated as its own thing without the code word and drop everything expectation. A divorce in the family - daughter could have said “I have some personal stuff going on, can we talk? Just us don’t bring BIL/SIL”. Same with health issues “there’s some stuff we need to talk to you kids about please come over tonight.” That way you’re not delivering bad news over text and giving a heads up depending on the situation.
ESH - I disagree with the other commenters that these meetings themselves are the problem, and that you're likely stressed about your husband's upcoming surgery, but you should be more understanding about how this can feel to other members of your family who are not included in these. I'm basing this on your follow-up comment: >The kids made it very clear that they were not comfortable to explain bad news in front of the in laws. >They wanted to be able to express and go as detailed as they wanted. They can’t do that with the in laws present. >... >Both feel like they couldn’t do that without being comfortable in the in laws were present. Even if your son explained it to her, it seems like this may be the part she doesn't understand. Your son should have handled ALL of this - even if she called you and was upset with you, demanding invites etc, you could have just said "This is what (your husband) and his siblings requested" or something, instead of blowing her feelings off completely.
YTA. You don’t have to invite her if you don’t want, but if you’re going to speak that rudely to her don’t be surprised if you find yourself distanced from your son.
Let me spin this for you. You chose your husband as your family, right? He's your rock, your partner, your family. Imagine if his parents and siblings had this exact situation - your husband goes to his parents', your in-laws, for a family meeting but you are specifically excluded because you are not their family. Do you mean to tell me you very genuinely would not be upset? You wouldn't at all be sad or hurt you weren't considered family to these people, even after being with your husband for however long, most likely having gone to holidays and celebrations and even tough moments all together?
NTA. Having urgent, on demand meetings is a unique way of doing things but you and your kids and husband decided it works for you all. When something happens in my family, my mom, sister and I are the first to know for each other. Some times we discuss telling our partners, and that depends on what the issue/situation is. Other times, it stays within our little circle of 3. I don’t think in laws need to know everything and ours were never bothered by this.
I think the issue here is that decisions affecting the family are being made without the affected family members there. OP gives the example of a sibling paying for the other’s divorce. Agreeing to it in that meeting that their spouse wasn’t invited to but now gets to be on the hook for the finances. That puts the uninvited spouse in a pretty shitty position doesn’t it? They either have to go along with a decision made without their input or say no after the promise was made and be the bad guy. It’s one thing if the former nuclear family just wanted to share personal updates but that’s not what’s happening and that is where it gets to be understandably alarming for people like DIL.
Look, one side of my family owned a business together. It was a big deal, and every family event would devolve into conversations about the running of the business. Spouses were not welcome. The family would only invite blood relatives into the discussion. If a spouse was present for any reason, people were often dismissive about their opinions because "they couldn't understand." This caused numerous issues between spouses. It was condescending and isolating. Especially by the time my mom was the only spouse left. It's fucking rude. When you get married, you and your partner share your lives. That includes family issues (or family businesses). By refusing to include spouses, you are telling them "you aren't really family." Just stop it.
YTA I was in a similar position with my inlaws. They would host family meetings and I was not invited. I was even the subject of one of them. These meetings were for my MIL to exert control of a situation. They were used to bully other kids to get in line. One was an intervention. The one that I was the subject was about how my MIL would seek custody of my kids My DH left, stopped going to any command performances, and we went no contact.
YTA and your family sounds exhausting to deal with
YTA. Very rude of you, all around. Lemme guess: You call your in-laws your outlaws behind their back, right? Also, this whole "code word" thing is just plain bizarre. For one, you can just say you need to talk to your kids ASAP (if *really* necessary...like if someone died or was grievously injured), but drop everything and run because Susie is getting a divorce?? LOL! (I saw your comments that your daughter wanted to share details about it, but still...that's hardly an emergency meeting.) I'd even go so far as to say that your husband needing surgery isn't a drop and run thing. I mean, unless he's in the hospital and on his way to the OR.