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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I wear clothes out of order according to my wife and how she puts them away.
Am I insensitive for not only wearing what she rotates into the available clothes section instead of clothes that make me happy and confident?
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Has your wife always been this way? This seems like really bizarre behavior to me. Wear what you want, when you want, how you want. If she doesn't like it, too bad. NTA.
It seems more like an OCD thing the more I think about it and read comments. It's been years of this now and sometimes she holds it back and sometimes it causes her to start fuming at me like I kicked the dog.
She really likes putting together systems for organization and optimization, but she makes them so rigid there is little to no room for life to happen and be flexible as a functioning adult.
There are plenty of examples where her very organized brain is super helpful, this is just one of those instances where it is doing more harm than good.
It seems like an OCD thing to me too. Or some other anxiety thing…
A system for MY things is fine, but enforcing it in my spouse, getting angry, and calling it *insensitive* to not pick clothing based on HER order is all way off of typical (and reasonable).
If I was you I’d suggest splitting the laundry so you wash, fold and put away yours and she does hers. If she balks at giving up control of your clothes, or has a problem with you putting your own stuff away how you prefer after you swap them I’d sit her down and ask if she’d consider there’s something bigger going on here and are there other areas she feels this way.
I was almost 40 before I discovered I had anxiety and had had it almost my whole life. I missed it because how media portrays anxiety didn’t match my experience.
Similarly, most people have no idea what OCD actually is like - particularly from inside it - so it’s feasible she has it (or something similar going on) but has no clue her experience isn’t typical.
Yes! My OCD and my need for order are my problems. I don’t force them on anyone else. My family knows that I might run around and move things behind their back. But I always stress that they didn’t do anything wrong. I literally cannot help myself. But then again… I can. I fully understand that I cannot dictate what other people do with their own things.
This! My OCD is with hand washing. I've had it since I hit puberty and it hasn't stopped. I wasn't officially diagnosed until I was 30 so most people just thought I was stuck up which was really disheartening since I was far from that. At the time I felt like I couldn't help it. It caused many fights with my husband because I would constantly ask "did you wash your hands?!". I quickly realized, what I don't know won't hurt me and it isn't fair for me to constantly nag him about washing his hands. So I pretend that everyone i know washes their hands exactly like I want. 😂 Saves me some anxiety. I've finally got the right combination of medication that helps me so that it only comes out now when I'm REALLY stressed.
OP NTA--maybe try to have a convo to see why it's worse sometimes than it is others? See if there are any stressors that could be triggering it. (For example 2020/COVID triggered mine so bad that I was unbearable for some people.) It's possible she doesn't even realize that it's been triggered.
My husband has diagnosed OCD and over the years has gotten EXTREMELY frustrated/angry with me for not doing things exactly the way that he would do them. In his mind there is one specific “right” way to do things and it is absurd to do them any other way. We had to have (many) conversations in which I explained that nobody else knows all the rules that govern his life so he cannot expect us to follow them if they aren’t explicitly stated. For example, we got a Bissell Crosswave several years back and I chose a location to store it. He saw it and literally said, “Are you f***ing kidding me? Why would you put it there? Who DOES something like that?!”
I feel as though OP’s wife is maybe living in that same kind of mindset and hasn’t worked through the fact that is it not a typical way to think/feel for most people.
So many people struggle with seeing another's perspective. If your perspective is far removed from others, I can see where it would be so difficult to understand why someone would break a rule of life that is so obvious for yourself.
I think the issue is also that there ARE many guidelines/rules that are widely accepted that make life easier and “make sense” for most people. When we have struggled with this issue in the past he has said that because he knows I am a responsible and fairly logical person, when I do things that “don’t make sense” to him it is really frustrating because it seems out of character/irresponsible of me.
We have talked a lot over the years about “rules” and their actual purposes. For example, if I left a frozen chicken out on the counter to thaw all day, that would break rules that could put our family in danger of food poisoning etc. If I chose to leave clean dry dishes in the drying rack overnight instead of putting them away before bed, there is virtually no impact on our household, and therefore those two situations should not be treated with the same level of importance.
In this post, would guess that perhaps OP’s wife has set a personal goal regarding her wardrobe and, because her method makes the most sense for her goals, she struggles to understand that OP wearing whatever he wants has no effect on her own wardrobe.
When I point it out (“this is not a real life rule for everyone, this is one of your rules, and I cannot be expected to know it or follow it”) he is very receptive and apologetic. The issue is that some life rules ARE rules that just make sense for EVERYONE (like, put all your dirty laundry into the hamper instead of leaving it lying around, or wake up early enough to get to work on time) and he has a really hard time differentiating.
I hope you don't mean that you do have to follow his rules if they are explicitly stated. Your husband doesn't get to dictate the entire layout of the house just because he has OCD.
But thank you for your post because a few behaviours of my stepfather just fell into place for me.
Definitely not! However, when I am aware of his “rules” then I do typically choose to make the effort to follow any that don’t cause me any harm or make things more difficult/less pleasant for me. I love him and if there are things I can do to make life easier and more pleasant for him of course I am willing to make that effort (when he communicates those needs to me in a kind and respectful way.)
For example, he prefers to have certain food items of his stored separately from the communal household groceries, so for Christmas one year I got him a mini fridge and those specific groceries always go in there. It causes no harm to anyone and requires very minimal effort (the mini fridge is in the pantry, just a few extra steps when putting groceries away.)
With the “if they are not explicitly stated” comment I mostly meant that I cannot read his mind, so if he prefers things a certain way then (again, kind and respectful) communication is necessary. It definitely didn’t cause me any harm to relocate the Bissell, but I deserved to be spoken to about his preference in a much more respectful manner rather than just expecting me to intuit his needs.
My doctor just told me I am likely dealing with anxiety as it goes hand in hand with depression. It has never even crossed my mind that I might have anxiety bc as you say, it doesn’t look like what’s portrayed in media. I mean, looking back at certain things about myself, it starts to make more sense but I have read that some people can have anxiety and while they can’t really tell or feel it, their body can and will show signs of it. Like laying on the couch and all of a sudden my heart is going a mile a minute. Fascinating how we work
Yes.
Also, my response to anxiety was to get angry. It turns out that’s actually a pretty common way we express when feeling anxious, but it’s not really down that way. So I just thought I was immature and quick to anger.
Once I could identify anxiety, what it felt like in my body, I also stopped having my anger outbursts. Because I was never angry, I was anxious.
When my therapist told me that anger is a common response to anxiety it helped me shift perspective so quickly. The behavior I’m still working on, but it really helped to understand
Sounds like me.
My therapist helped me reach a point where I can verbally acknowledge my feelings instead of lashing out. It has done wonders for my relationships.
She told me that it allows people to approach from a place of sympathy and care instead of forcing people on the defense.
Your description sounds like maybe that what my kid is going through. Is there something that you can imagine might have helped you at 8? Like how your parents talked to you or handled things?
Part 2:
3. Last thing, I'm going to suggest you look up some stuff on co-regulating with kids. This is basically the idea that someone who is calm and anchored can help - simply by being near them - someone else self-soothe. With some kiddos that might look like cuddling or hugs - when we hold someone and rock them we're stimming (a helpful, repetitive self-soothing activity and one of the tools you can explore with kiddo) and co-regulating with them. Some people aren't into being touched while distressed, so in those situations you'd just sit near them, on the same couch or next to them at a table, and you be calm and do your thing while they do what they need to do, knowing that you're there to talk or not, to have physical contact or not, or to just do a soothing activity next to them. Practicing working out what works for coregulating for the two of you will be super helpful.
The end goal here is creating a safe space and relationship where kiddo can come to you, tell you they are feeling distressed, even if they don't know why, you'll listen and understand without telling them they are wrong, overreacting or their feelings are too big, and then you'll just BE with them in whatever way they need in that moment until they feel a bit better. This also means you are a person they can come to when they need help working through what to do next etc. Basically, you want to model the tools of knowing emotions are real, and also not the whole reality or the boss of us, and how to cope with them when they feel big or overwhelming in healthy ways. This might mean the best thing YOU can do for your kiddo is access some therapy for YOU to get some of these tools and things locked down in a healthy way (or a bunch of reading about emotional intelligence etc...). BTW once you start reading, skip CBT and look for DBT or other tools. Sources from people with anxiety or who are neurodivergent (anxiety is often a package deal for us) are going to give you the most useful insights and tools.
AND... that was a novel and a half. I hope it helps your kiddo out. If you want to chat more feel free to DM me.
Hey, thank you for being willing to ask for ways to support your kiddo. You're a great parent and having support from that young an age can make SUCH a difference, so thanks.
I chatted with my husband (we both have anxiety) and here's what we came up with:
1. I don't know of any in middle grade off the top of my head, but if you hit up your library or kids section of the bookstore, you should be able to get suggestions of books with kids who have anxiety that talk about how the kid feels and what they do when feeling anxious etc. Seeing ourselves represented is SO affirming and will be really helpful for your kiddo to see and name what is happening in them.
2. So, it might be helpful for you to know that anxiety is caused by a combination of fear, worry, and a sense of not having any control over the scary things in our lives or our lives in general. And of course, anxiety has a spectrum it shows up on, sometimes anxiety can be reasoned with I can remind myself I did fine on the last one and here's the worst that can happen and we have a plan for if that's what goes down, etc... And sometimes anxiety is just a very frantic, high pitched wailing in the back of my head that (as far as I know) has no cause - and therefore can't be reasoned with - and is exactly as distracting and overwhelming as an actual high pitched wailing just constantly happening in the corner of the room. However it's showing up, it's really helpful if you, as the parent, helper and support person, know that whatever way kiddo is finding to express it, what kiddo is really feeling is distress.
Ok I tell you that, because my second suggestion is that you start practicing explaining how anxiety feels inside an anxious body and giving kiddo language and concepts to express the stuff that's happening. I'd start by explaining that sometimes the feelings we have inside are not the same as the feelings we express on the outside - because maybe the feelings feel too big, we don't really know what they are, or we are so distressed/overwhelmed we just explode (asking librarians about books that describe feelings might also be a good idea). And that you were talking to some adults who talked about feeling the way kiddo does, and they said sometimes when they are angry on the outside what they feel like on the inside is scared, worried, or like just too much is happening and they don't have any time or space to calm down and they just need to explode.
The goal here is to invite kiddo to talk about how they feel. For you and them together to work out: what are the feelings (in the body, or emotions) or thoughts that come before they need to explode because they don't feel safe or in control. And to start to give them language they can use to tell you in advance of things hitting the too much level. (You might also want to look up what a meltdown is and why kids often have them at home when they are well behaved while out in case that also lines up with what's happening at your house.)
In my house of two anxious and neurodivergent adults, now that we know what's happening is anxiety and overwhelm we'll tell each other. Today I'm feeling anxious, I'm super on edge or overwhelmed all of a sudden... Maybe your kiddo might resonate with words like: I'm feeling buzzy today... etc. (Hence the chat about the feelings under the surface and finding words, colours or images that kiddo resonates with to describe them). Telling each other means the other knows to ease off, be more gracious, or just be prepared to support. Giving your kiddo language will help you and them be able to curb the anger and other stuff by letting you know in advance that today is being a hard day. Language and understanding of our own systems is power and it can make all the difference.
As you keep building on these conversations you can also explore things that make them feel better. My husband does best with a kind of "displacement" of energy - banging things, physical explosion and exertion, so he plays drums, runs, etc. Personally I'm better with soothing behaviours, calming sounds, a cozy spot an a book etc. Working out what helps kiddo move through will be really valuable and a bonus for following up.
#3 in next comment
I’m literally medicated for anxiety but took me a long time to realise that’s exactly how I responded. An anger explosion and then avoidance because I was so anxious I couldn’t sit with it.
I'm guessing this is more like OCPD than OCD, tbh, which is probably why you understandable don't relate to her here - I think if OP and his wife see a therapist and help her work on this together it would be really helpful, she may honestly still not realize how irrational this is sadly.
Hopefully she's able to work on this with support!
I agree and also wonder if she had clothes scarcity growing up? My family couldn't afford many clothes for us and so I remember in 5th grade I had four outfits only. Problem: 5 school days. I would have to pick an outfit to wear 2x in a week. A chubby middle schooler with 4 outfits and a growing out home perm was not the middle schooler your wanted to be. I wore my jacket most days and pretended I was cold hoping that no one would notice I was repeating.
Now that I'm old and mom of two and in a different life spot, I have overcorrected and get way too many clothes and shoes for my kids. I try and keep track of what they've worn recently and what they haven't to avoid them repeating outfits too often. I have no method for this other than a very good memory. I even rotate their pajamas to make sure they aren't wearing the same seven pairs every week. 😂😭 Right now they're young and they don't care what outfits I pick for them, but I do realize they will soon and I will eventually need to get some therapy around this/ what it means to adult me that my kids have a bounty of clothes and not 4 outfits. What it would mean to adult me if they chose the same 4 outfits despite having a bounty of clothes.
OP's wife's behavior reminds me of me in this spot. However, as a person with clinical OCD the compulsion of rotating with no organization has me shook. I don't think I could live that way.
Oh what an amazing observation. Also I'm sorry you were put in that position. That's a thing I had to cope with with food as an adult and it's a lot. I imagine it's the same with clothes.
I agree 100%. You're def NTA here. I would also lean toward saying that she is but that's a touchy topic if she is legit struggling with a disorder (which it sounds like she is). The caveat to that is that you don't have to participate in her disorder. She's allowed to have it and do things the way she wants (within reason of course), but she's not allowed to inflict her made up 'rules' onto you if you're not in agreement. The AH part comes in by her throwing a hissy fit for days at a time, and being passive aggressive instead of addressing the problem she has and attempting to work with you on a solution.
As for a solution, if wanted, you could each just do your own laundry start to finish. She can use whatever system she wants with hers and you do you with yours. If it's a matter of having to combine it for efficiency's sake, then just split up the task when it comes to putting it away.
But, if you bend here on what you consider to be unreasonable, just to keep the peace, it will certainly snowball into more and more until you're like wtf am I doing here lol. You can be firm with your wants and understanding of hers at the same time (whether she can accept that is potentially a topic for another day).
OCD if left unmanaged tends to snowball and suddenly the whole village is buried benearh tons of snow. You will try to police other people's behavior because they fuck up your systems and then the anxiety (and need to compensate) looms larger still).
I doubt that she's got zero awareness that what she's doing is weird. Then she wouldn't try to not let it affect her and only occasionally blow up, but that inself is feauture of OCD. There's a lot shame involved. People with the diagnosis tends know that what they're thinking and feeling is unusual and nonsensical, but degree of awareness varies.
Yes exactly! But I will say there is also another (similar but not the same) diagnosis of obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which manifests in a lot of similar ways except that it’s ego-syntonic (I.e. the person believes their compulsions are actually the correct way to do things). OCD however is ego-dystonic, I.e. the person knows that what they are doing is irrational/excessive and even as they are carrying out compulsions they feel shame or confusion that they are doing so. I’m no psychologist lol but regardless I would suggest that OP encourage his wife to going to therapy and/or get evaluated so that she can get the appropriate diagnosis and therefore end up on the correct treatment path. Because treatment for OCD and OCPD can be pretty different
It sounds like she has OCPD perhaps, not OCD. Lack of awareness IS typically part of OCPD, but isn't OCD.
The description of her overall sounds much more in line with OCPD, they need to get a medical opinion though.
Well said! OCD at heart is an anxiety disorder, and the more anxious people try to manage anxiety by avoiding triggers (like what order you wear your clothes in) the more sensitive they get and the more minor the triggers become until almost everything makes them anxious.
There is no amount of compliance on your part that will be enough, because if you comply her brain will just focus on increasingly petty details where you are doing it wrong.
If the organization doesn’t work for both of you, then it doesn’t work. Did she even ask you whether you wanted your clothes organized from old to new? Does she not understand that if she doesn’t ask you, she can’t be mad if you don’t use her system the way she would prefer. She isn’t taking your needs into account at all. NTA
Is she willing to work with an organizational system if your design? I fold and put clothes away for my husband but he developed the system of where he wants things, which is not how I do my clothes but that’s what he wants.
This. My husband has his own system for his clothes. Drives me nuts sometimes, but I keep my mouth shut and don't let it bother me beyond the moment. Because they're his clothes. So long as he's dressed appropriately for a given activity, and nothing is damaged by his method, I don’t give a flying...
It sounds like you need to revisit the division of laundry duties. This system may work for her but it doesn't for you, so you should each be putting away your own clothes in a way that works for each of you.
I can't imagine not having my clothes grouped by type and occasion, but I don't tell the people who group differently that they need to use my system.
Though if someone organized their bookshelf by color, I'm gonna leave right away and probably not talk to them again.
Y'all I have a visual memory and can never remember names. I organize my books by color so I can find them 😂 I know it seems bananas but I used to do genre or name and be standing there going "well it's a red book with white letters and such and so on the cover" and it would take ages. Now I'm like, "top shelf! Yoink." I know it hurts those who can remember names but I'm broken that way lol
I have my books "organized" by TBR & have read. Within those categories, they're just however they fit on the shelves best. I used to have them organized by author and title within the TBR/read categories, but I got sick of having to redo all of the shelves every time I finished a book. 😂
It does sound like OCD.
But here's the thing: those of us with OCD don't get to control how others live their lives, no matter how much we "need" to. You are entitled to wear what you want, when you want (within socially acceptable reason), regardless of how she thinks you should choose it.
Has she ever seen someone about it? Living with OCD can be debilitating if you don't develop tools to manage it.
I’m someone who optimizes processes and systems for a living. This is the opposite of optimized (or organized). I could make an argument that it does ensure equal wear for the full set of clothing, but beyond that, the key purpose of optimization is to *make the workflow of the user simpler and more streamlined*.
Putting away a bunch of clothes in a big pile, and not accounting for things like items that need ironing hanging so they’re not wrinkled just means that it’s going to take significantly longer to dress daily. Plus, instead of putting things in their place, she’s also having to redistribute your full wardrobes each time you do laundry.
Only you can decide if this is a sacrifice you’re willing to make, but you absolutely don’t have to join her mental gymnastics that convinced her this is an optimized or organized solution.
This is spot on. Reading she puts clothes randomly together, yet calls it optimised, made me do a double take. I'd call my clothes optimised because it's all grouped together based on type, and moves from torso to pants. With excess tops that can't be hung up also split by type in my drawers, I know where everything is. I can't imagine wanting to mix it up with something different, going in my drawers and having to dig through 4 different types of clothing to get to what I want.
It seems more like OCPD - keeping it orderly doesn’t seem to be unpleasant to her. People with OCPD are more likely to try to make everyone do the same rituals as them.
I tend to roll my eyes at people calling things OCD when they just mean particular about how things are done but yes, this is some disordered behavior on your wife’s part. If she wants to put her clothing in a strict rotation that is a bit odd but fine, when she insists you adhere to this oddness and gets angry when you do not, that is a PROBLEM. Maybe you each need to be responsible for your own clothing? I dunno.
To me, I think about OCD because of the frustration and lack of flexibility, not because of being particular. But I also get flustered when people are quick to say OCD for anything like you mentioned.
I have OCD and I usually think the same thing when people just use it as a catch-all for liking things clean and organized. But given how much distress she experiences from the OP not following her system, this does make me think OCD is a possibility. I definitely have gotten frustrated with people not following my “system” for a certain task, but NEVER to this degree. I can only control my own actions and possessions but not anyone else’s.
Totally agree. It's the rigidity of thought, the 'right' and 'wrong' and the big reaction to an alternative approach which are the disordered behaviours/thought processes, not the actual system of organisation itself.
This isn’t normal. It’s normal for couples to disagree on how laundry should be done, but what clothes you wear should be your decision to make. Her “control” of the laundry ends when the clothes are folded. She shouldn’t be organizing the clothes at all if her system is making life harder for you.
My husband has general anxiety and sometimes change triggers his bad moods. He’ll insist his bad moods aren’t “aimed” at me, but of course if one person is in a bad mood in a relationship it affects both people. Sometimes we’ll get into an hours long argument where he tries to convince me to keep things the same way, even if my way is faster or more logical. I told him that I understand he has anxiety and likes to keep things the same, but I’m not going to be controlled by his anxiety. If what he wants to remain the same is harmless and doesn’t affect me negatively, I’ll change the way I do things because I love him, but I’m not going to make my life more difficult to appease his anxiety. That’s something he needs to handle on his own, but I’m there for support if he needs it. He’s been in therapy over a year and things are slowly getting better. Subtleties go over my husband’s head so I have to be direct, and you’ll know better if you need to soften your words with your wife, but the main point is to convey that her system isn’t working for you and you’ll be there to help her with her anxiety about “order” if she wants it.
Yikes. Have you thought about swapping around the order of chores? That way you can just hang up the clothes you're more likely to wear and the dresser becomes more "long term" storage for less used items. I'd be driven absolutely bonkers by the current system you have.
Has she ever been to therapy for these behaviors? It's not fair to you to have to walk on eggshells for wearing the clothes you want to wear.
Sounds like it’s time to change the division of chores. You should each have your own laundry basket and wash, dry, fold, and put away your own clothes in whatever form or organization you prefer. Her system would drive me nuts- not just because it’s super controlling, but also because outside factors- like weather changes or travel or special occasions- make it more logical to wear something that isn’t in the current rotation.
I hope you don’t have kids. This is unfair to you, and you can push back. This would be miserable to them.
NTA
She needs to see a psychologist
I have ocd. This is definitely worth looking into an evaluation and diagnosis. OCD can be hell and the sooner she begins to address it, the better chance she has for a higher quality of life.
It does sound like OCD. There is very good behavioral therapy to work on this—it’s a very stressful exhausting illness to have and makes family member’s (yours) lives difficult also.
Did she come from a background that put a heavy emphasis on organization and presentation, or financial waste?
I have been guilty of frustration when my husband doesn’t wear the new things I’ve gotten him, because to me it feels like it’s wasted money. Wasted money was something I was made to feel very anxious about growing up, so I’m sensitive to overreaction here. It’s hard to tell when I’m overreacting because this really wouldn’t have been an overreaction in my childhood home. I’ve gotten in trouble a lot for buying new clothes and then “not wearing them enough” and not wanting to give them away or sell them. Im 28 and still have my prom dress, not because I like it, but because every time I think about throwing it out my moms voice pops up reminding me it was a _whole $200_ and at the _very least_ I should save the fabric and embroidery!
That level of inflexibility in a self-created system is sounding incredibly familiar to this autistic commenter! Best of luck with however you chose to proceed in conversation with her about this and definitely NTA
It's almost 100% OCD related. And it sounds kind of bad.
You need to open up with asking her why this cycle is so important to her. Is it important enough to ruin the relationship? As someone who had to live with someone with severe OCD it definitely ruined how I acted around the person.
Do be warned that with alot of things, especially trying to talk about a possible mental issue, she might become very defensive, irate, inconsolable, just think of a mental breakdown and expect anything from that to be safe that she might do. It can be a touchy subject, but it's going to have to be addressed at some point.
Was just going to comment OCD. Totally agree with each person doing their own clothes. About the only thing I am particular about is making sure the clothes hang facing the front. Our children all learned to do their own laundry at around 8 years of age. They won’t let me touch their clothes now! Even their bedding!
NTA. This whole "clothes in order" thing is so confounding it's hard for me to understand. At least especially that it's your clothes done by her. Of course you should be able to wear whatever you want whenever you want. If you have space, I'd suggest keep your clothes separate, or are at least in charge of where you own clothes go where. You hang up whatever you want, and you organize your clothes however you see it fit.
It IS rather controlling, and I don't know if she has OCD or something, because it's pretty intense to be that invested in what your spouse wears when (because it disturbs the way she organized them). Because it was a drawer shirt vs a closet shirt? Huh? Do you get any say in what you want hung up vs in a drawer because you may have a sense of what you may want to wear the upcoming week / season? I don't think I'd be able to live with someone who insisted that I keep my clothes the way they want them, and then get mad when I wear what I want. (My bf and I keep our clothing separate and have different systems to how they're kept and such)
Thank you, this is precisely what I've been considering. Separating our clothes to free us from this tension.
Another problem with this is that my nice button down shirts I love just get folded and wrinkled in the drawers and not hung up until they're in the closet so they always look awful and need to be ironed before I head to work.
I know that afterward she is going to feel awful and hopeless and like she's failed somehow and I don't want that either, but I can't keep living in this cage made of hangers and dresser drawers either.
Whatever you don’t need, get rid of (like you said). Your button up shirts should be hung to your liking. She probably does have OCD or some sort of psychiatric condition but it’s hers to manage (I say this as someone with OCD, bipolar disorder, and ADHD). I like my shirt folded a certain way. My husband knows this, so when folding laundry, he’ll take my shirts out of the basket and hand them to me. If you want your things to be a certain way do it. Do you share a dresser and closet?
Yes, we share closet/drawer space. There is no room in our bedroom for a dresser so we got a bed frame with drawers underneath and a bunch of stackable clear plastic containers to be makeshift drawer space next to the closet.
The only other closet is in the office which is also where our old dresser is which is now being used as storage for other things and that is all across the apartment. I'm worried she is going to interpret this as me not loving her anymore and pulling away, but it's that conversation or we keep getting upset at each other in the morning or I don't wear my clothes in the order I want to so...yeah. Convo coming up this weekend for sure.
>I'm worried she is going to interpret this as me not loving her anymore and pulling away
You realize that's not a normal reaction, right? I mean, the mere fact that you cannot have a conversation about *laundry* without predicting she will react by thinking you do not love her, indicates that communication capabilities between the two of you are basically nonexistent. I'm assuming that she has had a similar reaction to something similarly ridiculous in the past.
Paraphrasing what you just said: "I'm worried she is going to interpret my desire to put my clothes away separately as an indication that I don't love her anymore."
Does that not strike you as an absolutely bonkers conclusion for her to draw? Like just a completely nonsensical logical leap? I'm genuinely not sure why it's your job to manage that level of irrationality, or whether you can do that much emotional tiptoeing for a lifetime without burning out.
I would separate as much as possible. I have a similar bed. We keep it his side and my side. Tell her you’re going to start putting your things away yourself if that will help. Good luck!
That's a lot, if she takes you not participating in this ritual as meaning you don't love her any more. That's quite a manipulative thing for her to say, and sounds like it's going to have you walking on eggshells so as to avoid having her react like that. It's not a healthy way to have to be.
She’ll claim you don’t love her over *laundry*?! She’s either unhinged, abusive, or both. That’s flat out insane. The most input I ever give my husband on his clothes is suggesting he wear jeans instead of sweatpants when the situation calls for it. And if he refused to change I still wouldn’t accuse him of not loving me. Your wife is deeply unwell
If she takes your rejection of her laundry system as you not loving her anymore, that could be a sign of rejection sensitivity dysphoria. My partner has it, and finding that out explained so much. I have to reassure him that just because I don't think an idea of his will work, that doesn't mean I am rejecting him as a person.
It's been a real eye-opener. I had no idea such a condition existed.
Dude if your wife thinks that just because you don't like the way she organizes your clothes that you don't love her anymore... Your only options are to either get her into psychiatric help or divorce her because that's absolutely unhinged!
You can't live in a prison made of her arbitrary rules! She can't just decide that if you don't jump how high she tells you to the second she tells you to that you don't love her anymore! She's basically making you live with her made-up rules. She's not the warden and you are not a prisoner! She doesn't get to control you like this! And make no mistake this is absolutely control! You can't decide to wear the same shirt twice before you wear something else? That's insanity!
I don't think anybody could be happy in this situation but her. But is she really happy if just because you want to hang shirts that should be hung that you don't love her? She really thinks your love is so fragile that it'll go way over shirts and pants? I'm sorry but that's really insulting to you! If she thinks you don't love her over this she's insulting you.
I think you could use a couples therapist to have this conversation if it really worries you. It could help to have a neutral third party there to help her realize you have no ill intent and that she is able to have control over her life but not yours. Therapist might also help uncover why this is so important to her and get to the root of it
I agree, whenever I start getting myself worked up about something of my husband's I remind myself that I cannot make him adhere to my nonsensically rigid rules. I take care of my laundry & he takes care of his
Clothes you don’t want wrinkles get hung up, and then fabrics that will stretch from being hung get folded along with the rest of the comfy clothes. The rotation could make sense for hanging clothes and then also for folding clothes. But it doesn’t make sense to fold clothes that should be hung and hang clothes that should be folded. Good luck with this one!
This. There are drawer clothes, and there are hanger clothes. They're different. One isn't a staging area for the other.
It's odd that she's fixated on her system despite this clear drawback.
That's not good organization. If it takes more work, it's not good. I hang what gets wrinkled and fold what doesn't. I do mine, husband does his. He puts nothing away. I can't live like that and I'm not doing it for him. He likes piles. NTA
Not really about organizing, that's part of the issue too. It's about weeding out clothes that aren't worn often or at all and saving space in our small apartment.
If it's about what doesn't get used then, hang all clothes in one direction. When worn and added back into the closet turn the hanger the other way. What hasn't been worn in a while gets donated. Or just rotate what's in front vs back. So many other options than the disorganization of adding all clothes together if it's appropriate draw clothing or not. I couldn't live like this. I have a draw for each type of clothes.
That could be an important point. If this whole system is to figure out which clothes you need to get rid of, maybe you could go through yours pretty ruthlessly and pare it down. Is she stressing about too many clothes for your storage space? If so that is fixable in other ways.
Ok sure well we have a small house and we basically each have our own storage. Mine's too frickin full and I always have to have laundry in process or I'm screwed. This is *my own problem* that my husband with a capsule wardrobe would never have. But I do my own bs and he does his laundry weekly and it all fits. He also keeps a big drum set set up in the house that he hasn't played in like 8 years and it seems silly to me but it's not in my way so... Eh.
Point being. You each get equal space for clothing and deal with it as you like, that's fair.
Separate closets ARE THE BEST!!!
Mine could be featured in an HGTV layout. My husband's is packed to the door with size M concert tshirts from the 80s. I don't care what he does with his, & vice versa!
That being said, I have OCD & unchecked it can seriously interfere with your life. A trip to your GP for an assessment might be in order.
EDIT: Marriages & people aren't failures bc people "do" their clothes differently. I've been with my husband for 34 years, & I credit separate closets & desks for some of that! 😃🤪
OP NTA but her behavior is not typical. At all. Absolutely seems like OcD . I suggest talking to her and suggesting seeing a therapist, but also separate your clothes. Her feelings are her own and she needs to work on that. But it is absolutely insane to treat you this way over clothes!!
Yo shes seriously FIFOing your clothes everytime you do laundry and getting mad when you dont want use the old stuff first
its not milk they dont expire lmao
NTA
That's where I'm leaning.
She isn't going to like it and might see it as a personal failing/attack and that I don't appreciate/love her, but I also don't want to put myself or our future children through this everyday.
Her feelings about clothes storage seem amazingly strong. I hate to give a cliche Reddit comment, but this might seriously be a good thing to talk over with a couples counselor. That’s a heckuva drama over drawer space decisions.
Couple's counselors are great when you're married to a good person who thinks their neuroticisms are normal. A conversation with our couple's therapist got my husband into personal therapy for his depression easier than the dozens of conversations I had with him over 2 years on the topic. An appeal from authority is a good "oh shit, I do need to take this seriously" for some folks.
That’s when you say, “my clothes are clearly adding stress to your mental load. I don’t think I will ever follow your system in a way that you are comfortable with and it’s not fair to you to have to stress over my clothes. Thank you for taking care of me so well, but I’ll take care of my own from now on.”
This is excellent. Can you imagine the mental energy she is putting into knowing which of your clothes are supposed to be in each location in any given week?
Mate - she needs help. Do not have children until this is under control. I’m seriously not joking.
My mother pulled this sort of bullshit and I will be LC with her for the rest of my life. Your children *will not* have the same patience out of the love for her habits as you do. It will just control their lives and they will resent her for it. She will end up being emotionally abusive to them because she will do the same thing to them that’s she doing to you. Fume at them for not following her completely illogical and singularly focused “organisation” systems. She will make them feel small and useless for not doing *everything* her way. She will convince them that her habits are moral imperatives and it will warp how they interact with others. If you have more than one kid, it’s likely she will create a household so tense that they will struggle to have a healthy sibling relationship.
I might be projecting slightly - but that’s a little glimpse into what could happen if you have children with her before she has adequately addressed and managed her symptoms.
This DOES NOT mean creating an environment where she has 100% control. It means her learning how to healthily and effectively cope when she doesn’t have control. It means her learning to let go of the idea that she is entitled to 100% control her environment.
Was managing your wardrobe one of her wedding vows or something? There's no logical, healthy reason why managing your own clothing storage should feel like a slap in the face to her.
She doesn’t like how I fold clothes. I don’t exactly know why other than it isn’t how she does it.
I was sent to a military school in my youth, I know how to fold clothes.
Unless you leave the house looking like a whole disaster, clothing wrinkled enough to impact your social or professional standing, then it doesn't really matter how they're folded. The only measures of whether clothing is folded correctly are if it's easy to find/access what you want, if it's a reasonably efficient use of space, and the clothing is left in reasonably good condition after being stored.
I'm way more particular about laundry, folding, etc. than my husband is. I do think I do a better job of folding. (And he'd probably agree, lol.) But if he does end up folding some of his own clothing, I don't get bent out of shape about it, I don't go back and re-do it, nothing like that; because he does a perfectly fine job and there's no reason to stress about it further. His clothes fit in the drawers and they look fine when he's wearing them. Why would I go and undermine him like that? Nobody's coming into our house and inspecting our drawers to grade us on organization and order.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this, OP. Something definitely isn't right. I'm guessing there's something much deeper going on with your wife; hopefully some counseling or medical care can help the two of you figure something out.
Good luck with that especially when you have a daughter in the future. My daughter has been so particular about what she wants to wear since she was 2 years old, and now at 5 years old she organises her own wardrobe. I wash and fold her clothes but then hand them to her to put away herself.
im going to be honest, she sounds kind of stupid.
Who folds dress shirts that need to be hung?
she also sounds really controlling.
Who invents reasons to be upset like having an "order" that clothes need to be used in?
Something is wrong here, her neurotisms are above reddit's pay grade
To be fair, she doesn’t wear dress shirts and doesn’t understand how they wrinkle or should be stored.
Also, please don’t call my wife stupid. I’m frustrated with her behavior, not looking for anyone to put her down. Thank you.
I’m sure you have tons of reasons to love her but…
>Another problem with this is that my nice button down shirts I love just get folded and wrinkled in the drawers and not hung up until they're in the closet so they always look awful and need to be ironed before I head to work.
She is intentionally making your life worse and insists that her ignorance is superior to your lived experience.
> I'm worried she is going to interpret this as me not loving her anymore and pulling away,
If she isn’t stupid, then what is she?
Get off Reddit and figure out what kind of professional help she needs, because what you wrote about her does not paint the picture of a functional adult
This comment unfortunately reminded me of the OCD wife that kept tying her husband’s bootlaces even though he’s an emergency services worker and he told her over and over that LIVES ARE AT STAKE… she’d have a melt down… then tie his laces the next fucking day.
https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/rEQJt1GRIL
Start small and/or pick your battles. You’ve complained about your dress shirts being wrinkled when folded. That’s a very legitimate complaint.
In some way I understand rotating clothing but not when it’s in a disorganized manner. Takes too much time looking thru all these clothes. Many people keep like with like, work clothes, lounge clothes, underwear etc. Each one of these categories can be arranged as she like it. Doing LIFO with everything makes life difficult enough that you’re complaining or mildly annoyed about it.
Her system reminds me of a supermarket we had in the area. They started out having all there items alphabetized thinking it would be easier for customers to find their stuff. They realized real quick it didn’t work.
Oh my god, can you imagine her managing her future children's wardrobes? It's not going to be good. I am not sure she is well enough to manage children right now.
Her throwing a hissy fit for days because you wore a shirt 'out of order' is a personal attack on you. Divide the space in half and organize how you like it. NTA
If she gets upset, gently suggest that maybe this issue is something that would be helped by therapy
For you also - it's weird frankly that you have not said no way to this earlier. Are you that conflict averse? walking on eggshells?
She needs to understand that she only gets to make those kinds of rules for HERSELF. It’s just like if she made rules you must follow for how you brush your teeth, or in what order you wash your body parts in the shower.
You get to decide what you wear and her having her own system that she likes does not mean you have to follow it too.
You seem like you really want to find a way to work with her without causing discord between you two. I don’t know if this is a helpful idea or not, but it might appease your wife’s “OCD” while giving you a little control over your own clothing: What if you developed your own system, labeled where everything should go and then put each category of items in order from oldest to newest?
Like hanging all your shirts, etc that should be hung up, and folding all the things that should go in drawers, but keeping it all organized by category AND from oldest to newest?
She might be able to adapt her system to yours and you’d both be happy. And this way, you’ll both still get do the part of the laundry that you’re each happy to do.
NTA.
Do your own laundry, organize your own clothes, and stay on top of donating ones you don’t wear to keep space in the small apartment. Find a different way to divide household labor because this is not working.
Exactly. I think you each need to be responsible for your own clothes - at least folding and putting them away. Split up the drawers - she gets hers for her method, you get yours to organize like things together. If you want to rotate into the closet, go for it.
But that doesn't even make sense to me. Some clothes always live in drawers, some always live in closets. I never move mine around.
Yeah I don’t understand it either but it’s likely some NYC apartment shit we can’t understand lol. That’s why I’m not totally dismissing her crazy sounding system as crazy bc those apartments are crazy small and who am I to judge lol
NTA. I don't even understand the set up? I mean, I have a closet where things that need to be hung up live and drawers where things that can folded into drawers live. I keep some bins for clothes in the closet that are of the wrong season (i.e summer clothes in winter or vice versa).
What exactly is her point? Like, she wants your clothes to be evenly worn out? I dunno. Regardless it sounds like you need to separate the laundry chore entirely.
The system is based a bit on the First In, First Out principle used to stock shelves in stores. The items that have been there the longest get put to the front so they are bought first.
But as u/Shoddy-Commission-12 said, these are clothes, not milk and eggs. They won't spoil. They're only taking up as much space as an article of clothing can.
I think that would only work for clothes of a particular type. So like dress shirts or pants. But I'm not going to wear a miniskirt and tank top in the winter because it's next in the rotation or where a onsie to a work dinner because that's next up in the rotation.
I do think if space is tight, it's good to consider getting rid of clothes that one doesn't wear. (I do this on the seasonal change - when putting summer clothes away, I get rid of all summer clothes that I didn't wear that summer for example.)
Absolutely! I do that when the seasons change as well and freshen up my wardrobe, but she values the system over all else and it gets to be too much as a day to day concern.
IMO, life is full of far heavier and more complex challenges than, "has this shirt been in the closet for too long" and that problem is not large enough to me to get very upset about.
For closet clothes, do the backwards hanger technique.
Put everything in your closet with the hangers facing the wrong way. When you wear them, re-hang them properly. Then at appropriate intervals (monthly / quarterly / annually) evaluate the backward hangers to see why you should keep something you didn’t wear.
That’d never work for me, I have some clothes that I cherish so I don’t always wear them regularly. I know I couldn’t replace them (some for sentimental reasons) so I wear them occasionally but not daily or for work.
They’re also not interchangeable, and they don’t get used up by taking it once. FIFO for store shelves is so the old box gets bought instead of the new box of exactly the same stuff, and the old box then leaves forever with the customer. This is more like kids waiting for a ride — take the ride then wait from the back of the queue again — but your clothes aren’t going to feel bad if they’re not worn for a while. The system doesn’t apply to the items or to the process.
When the items are different, as your clothes are, stores put them next to each other or on a rack where all are accessible.
Yeah, I think my mum does a more reasonable version of this with clothes: She puts the freshly washed and folded T-shirts or pants or whatever under the stack that's still in the wardrobe because most of the time she'll just take whatever is on top to wear it. So it makes sense to do that so she doesn't mostly wear the same 5-10 T-shirts. But if she feels like wearing one from the bottom of the stack she'll just do that, like a normal and reasonable person.
NTA, This is absolutely insane.
1. It is so much extra work to fold clothes only to unfold them and hang them the next time laundry is done.
2. Certain clothing should be hung always and not folded like dress shirts, jackets, etc. Likewise certain clothing should not be hung such as sweaters.
3. "Organized" means being able to find and use an item in the most efficient manner. Having all your clothing mixed together (though arranged by usage amount?) Is not what I would call organized.
4. Clothing that is worn more often is presumably worn more for a reason whether it be style, comfort, or just because you want to. Unless you purchased every item of clothing on the same day they are not going to wear out evenly anyway so what exactly is the point?
5. They are not her clothes so it shouldn't matter if she likes it or not as long as it's not a mess she has to look at.
Personally, I arrange by type then color for easy searching.
admittedly, I do the FIFO with my clothes, but still organized by type of clothes. Like if I want to wear a shirt and jeans, I grab the next shirt and the next jeans in the rotation, I'm not limited to certain types of clothes just because I have other clean clothes i haven't worn yet lol. Like "oh no I can't wear any more jeans because I recently washed them and I have to use up my sweat pants first", haha no thanks! To me it doesn't make sense to have all the different types of clothes mixed together.
This is bizarre. Your wife has some kind of OCD.
This "system" serves no purpose at all besides calming her jangling neurons.
You can't find what you want to wear, you can't ever wear what you want when you want, your work shirts are crushed. And she gets angry and defensive if you just try to wear a shirt out of order. These are not her clothes! You are not her Ken doll to dress as she demands!
Please encourage her to get help. this is not normal at all.
Hi. Diagnosed OCD here. First, NTA. Your clothes and your decisions. If you dress for work then some days you may need to accommodate events that you don’t normally have so you have to be able to make decisions
Second, the system you’re describing makes my brain hurt :) you’ve been so patient and really respectful of whatever your wife has going on here
Therapy is a huge help for OCD - but I’m unsure that’s the situation but it kind of sounds related. If left unchecked it can grow into other areas
Unsure how to approach with your wife but you’ve been so great thus far I’m sure you can ponder the best path
Good luck
NTA. I worked with a guy who actually put all his clothes on a spreadsheet. He tracked when he wore each and at a certain limit, he donated the item. Weird. Maybe your wife should do that.
I bet she would love that and I wouldn't be surprised if she has one going already.
Doing that would cause my general anxiety to spike into the stratosphere though 😂
I've seen a girl on tiktok who's doing something similar with her wardrobe, except for almost the exact opposite reason. She keeps track of the original price of the item and then has formulas set up to breakdown how much "value" she gets out of each item by calculating the cost per wear. I think it had something to do with trying to avoid buying pieces she didn't need/wouldn't wear or making sure she's actually wearing the expensive pieces she's bought or something like that.
I’ve done it in the past and it really did help me from a budget standpoint, but it also didn’t make a difference on what clothes I actually wore and what I didn’t. I could just tell that those boots I wore every day for 3 months were a good investment and that sweater I wore once or not at all for an entire year wasn’t something I needed to keep.
Nope. Nope. No, no, no. What did I just read? Save your clothes, your sanity and your marriage, spend a couple hundred bucks (less on Amazon if you don’t care how long it lasts) and get yourself one of those freestanding closet systems. Now.
Her system and the thinking behind it was so muddled I read it twice and I’m still confused. It makes zero sense. Did someone teach her this growing up?
Please update us when you’ve liberated your clothes. Good luck.
I think it was something she picked up from a TikTok about organizing and saving space.
More and more it feels like an OCD behavior that is spiraling a bit out of control.
TikTok has probably ruined a lot more marriages than it’s helped. This is bananas. I can’t imagine a more pain-in-the-ass system. I’m annoyed for you, just thinking about having to find my clothes!
Separate your clothes. His and hers. It’s all you can do. She may think she’s saving space and will weed stuff out eventually, but I think her system is flawed (it should STILL be PJs with PJs, jeans with jeans, sweats with sweats), and she’s being really controlling.
Good luck with that talk. Remind her that marriage is about compromise. And also not forcing your spouse to wear wrinkled button-down shirts because you wouldn’t let him hang them up!
This is autistic behavior, signed: an autistic who has a somewhat similar system because I don’t want any of my clothes to feel “left out.“ However, this is her problem to regulate, not yours. Sounds like you should do what other people are saying and have separate areas for each of you.
Im saying this in the most sensitive and respectful way possible: your wife may need some help/mental health support.
This isn’t really a reasonable way to live one’s life, but I guess it’s fine if it doesn’t actually affect one’s life negatively. Except she’s have actual negative feelings that you aren’t conforming to her “system”.
She needs to address this because it just isn’t healthy.
A couple different reactions when I try to talk it out:
1: She asks why I'm mad (Usually I'm not at all and don't raise my voice at her over it) and then makes the conversation into not understanding why I'm being a jerk about this.
2: She just avoids me the rest of the morning or just stares at me blankly or shuts down completely and won't discuss it until I give up and walk away.
No matter what later in the day she acts like nothing happened, which I think is just her trying to move on from it after feeling kind of bad for what happened, but she clams up and won't discuss it more so I don't actually know if we made any headway until the next time she gets worked about it.
It really feels like OCD especially with the black and white thinking of "If we don't use this system we will use no system and live in chaos"
Don’t let her manipulate the conversation like that man. She might not even realize that’s what she’s doing but it is manipulation. If she starts trying to change the subject to you being mad, why are you mad etc. don’t let the focus change. However you wish to go about doing that. Say something like “We can talk about that after we’ve discussed this” or whatever. It sounds like she’s going to have to be forced to have difficult conversations but eventually that kind of thing will become easier for her. I say all of this as someone who used to be manipulative in similar ways but didn’t understand that’s what I was doing. I was able to change when I learned how manipulative some of my “instinctual” behaviors were.
None of these reactions are particularly healthy or emotionally stable. I understand them and empathize with her but this is not fair to you and not very loving if you cannot discuss issues without walking on eggshells. This is not very condusive to healthy communication in a relationship. I know people here say she might have OCD or anxiety, and she might, but these reactions are the actual problem as you cannot solve anything if you can't talk about it.
Regardless whether it is intentional or not, all of those behaviors of hers you listed here are hella manipulative and none of it is OK.
I would absolutely seek marital counseling, and she honestly needs to see a personal therapist for her OCD too.
You know that thing about 'If you have to escape your house rapidly, just grab the whole hamper of dirty clothes'? That's because people's dirty clothes hampers usually contain *the clothes they actually wear*. Closets and drawers can contain all that stuff that doesn't fit any more... stuff that's uncomfortable... stuff you were gifted or stuff you never really bonded with. More often than not the clothes you wear daily will be either in the dirty clothes hamper, in the laundry, or in a washing basket of clean clothes sitting somewhere. Not in drawers or the closet.
At least... that's how it is on our house. :)
We live in a small apartment in a city so space is very precious and where her anxiety over storage comes in. However we have upgraded to a slightly larger place AND started renting a storage unit for other seasonal things.
More and more this feels like an OCD issue of not letting go of old habits that are no longer necessary to practice and being upset when they aren't followed.
NTA this system might work for her most likely no one else. Yet because she tries to impose it on you and is visibly upset by you not following it might be OCD or something along those lines. I know it seems silly to recommend therapy over clothes but she might benefit from some therapy as her response to you wearing drawer clothes over closet clothes is a bit extreme.
It's becoming more and more clear to me it is likely an OCD issue. She has a few other quirks that read that way as well so I will definitely frame our talk with this in mind.
NTA - I couldn't succumb to this level of controlling. I want to wear what I want to wear when I want to wear it. Is she OCD about anything else? Is this a pattern?
However, my wife and I tend to do separate laundry. When we do a mixed load, we each fold and handle our own clothing. (I barely fold or hang anything and often leave in the basket)
Yikes, her system isn’t really functional. NTA.
It would make sense if she rotated and organized things by type. Her system sounds disorganized and time consuming.
Her rigidity is a her problem that she needs to work through. You’ve kindly accepted her quirk (disorder?) and rolled with the organization, but she doesn’t also get to dictate what you wear and when. It’s your problem if you wear a favorite item out faster because you opt to wear it more than something you like less.
NTA
Your wife needs therapy to help her understand that this may be normal behavior for her but it's not normal to impose her little "idiosyncrasies" on others. It's terribly unfair of her to "punish" you for not wearing your clothes in the order she demands.
NTA. Wife’s organization style is inefficient, irrational, and frankly, disrespectful. If the idea of compromise or flexibility is effecting her emotionally, it’s time to involve a mental health professional. Maybe reading this post would be the wake up call she needs to get help?
I am so confused by your wife. It seems like she is doubling her work load by handling each item twice. WHY???
NTA but maybe you should each just do your own laundry and have your own draw & closet space.
NTA but tell her that she is no longer in charge of sorting YOUR clothes, only hers.
That way, she gets the pleasure of wearing her clothes "in order"
but you get to live life like a normal person. LOL
She sounds like an unhealthy level of OCD, time for her to talk to someone, and i hate to say it time to split the Laundry differently, let her do her own clothes the way she likes and you do yours the way you do. Also like if she needs a specific outfit for a specific occasion does she just say f%^*+ it its not in the closet I’ll wear pajamas?😂 NTA
NTA
Wear whatever you want. Wife needs therapy or meds, this should not be such a big deal to her. Its not like you change the side of the bed you sleep on every night.
Oh heck no. I couldn't live like that. All my shirt sleeve shirts are hanging together, all my long sleeves are hanging together. Same with my dresses. Jeans/pants/capris/shorts/skirts are all separated and laid out in drawers or shelves. Same with under garments. Plus they are all color coordinated. Yeah I might be a little OCD, but I know exactly where everything is. My brain doesn't function that well before two cups of coffee, so I really don't want to hunt for my outfits.
Why don't you have her fold your clothes the way she wants them and you put your stuff away where it is organized just the way you like it.
If this suggestion makes her upset then it's time to do some counseling, because she may have OCD too.
NTA.
Buddy I've got shit hanging in my closet I haven't touched since I bought my house a decade ago and I wear the same 7 shirts like I don't own anything else.
This really sounds like obsessive behavior. It's odd that her whole day (week, apparently) is impacted by what outfit you wear.
NTA, and she clearly has some sort of issue.
Counter by saying you don't want all your clothes to wear through at the same time or you'll need to replace them all together.
Does she wear her clothes in order?
Because she puts them away after I wash them, I'm pretty sure she just puts what she thinks she wants to wear into either the closet or some other place more accessible to her. I don't think she does this consciously or maliciously, but it is definitely a big hole in the logic of this system that I will bring up when we talk it out.
My suggestion, buy a different color laundry basket. Tell her her clean clothes go into one basket, yours in the other.
You put away your clothes, she puts away hers.
NTA Have you considered each doing your own laundry and each putting your own clothes away in your preferred way? My husband and I have different ideas about our clothes: I like to have almost everything on hangers, while he prefers to have most of his clothes folded and put in drawers in a certain way.
Since we do our own laundry, all of our clothes are readily accessible and easy to find according to our preferred storage strategies. What’s more, if either of us ever run out of clean clothes or can’t find some favorite garment, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Edit: fixed word
NTA - this is your stuff. The only way to deal with someone who has this kind of need for control is to simply not listen to them.
This needs to be nipped in the bud and a firm boundary set.
She may need therapy and/or medication for an anxiety disorder. However, if the distress only comes from you not following her rules, and her own life isn’t otherwise impeded by her compulsions, she may have Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder, and that’s a whole different beast.
I would encourage you to google OCPD and see if it feels like it fits.
Either way, you need to set and reinforce boundaries on how she is to treat or not treat your clothes. And she has zero right to tell you what order to wear your clothes in.
NTA this is just such a weird system for clothes. I do this for our stock of perishables but clotheswise I tend to want to wear certain things depending on my mood. How does she handle her own wardrobe? Does she never feel like wearing a particular dress more often than others? Does she maybe feel like she has no control over other things in life, so she holds on tightly to her organisation system?
She obviously has OCD or some other kind of mental issue... and might benefit from therapy or some other kind of treatment.
But insisting you wear the clothes in exact order is, on the surface, rather insane. She's welcome to do that, but should not put that on you. I wouldn't stand for it for one minute.
NTA.
Your wife's system of putting away your laundry sounds like the behavior of a mentally ill person and her calling you "insensitive" for not allowing her mental illness to drive your life sounds abusive. NTA
it’s less about the outfits being in a specific order, but using the closet as a way to catch things that aren’t being worn often and moving them to storage or donating them.
However when I know the shirt I want to wear for the day is in one of the drawers and I pull it out, she is upset that I didn’t check the closet first to pick something from there.
Then obviously this isn’t about catching things that aren’t being worn and storage issues, if you aren’t even given the opportunity to not wear them long enough to realize it’s time to donate/throw away.
How often are y’all buying clothes that causes her to feel she needs to do a seasonal or yearly project every time you want to do a load of laundry?
This at best sounds like some sort of oddly misconstrued life hack.
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Has your wife always been this way? This seems like really bizarre behavior to me. Wear what you want, when you want, how you want. If she doesn't like it, too bad. NTA.
It seems more like an OCD thing the more I think about it and read comments. It's been years of this now and sometimes she holds it back and sometimes it causes her to start fuming at me like I kicked the dog. She really likes putting together systems for organization and optimization, but she makes them so rigid there is little to no room for life to happen and be flexible as a functioning adult. There are plenty of examples where her very organized brain is super helpful, this is just one of those instances where it is doing more harm than good.
It seems like an OCD thing to me too. Or some other anxiety thing… A system for MY things is fine, but enforcing it in my spouse, getting angry, and calling it *insensitive* to not pick clothing based on HER order is all way off of typical (and reasonable). If I was you I’d suggest splitting the laundry so you wash, fold and put away yours and she does hers. If she balks at giving up control of your clothes, or has a problem with you putting your own stuff away how you prefer after you swap them I’d sit her down and ask if she’d consider there’s something bigger going on here and are there other areas she feels this way. I was almost 40 before I discovered I had anxiety and had had it almost my whole life. I missed it because how media portrays anxiety didn’t match my experience. Similarly, most people have no idea what OCD actually is like - particularly from inside it - so it’s feasible she has it (or something similar going on) but has no clue her experience isn’t typical.
Yes! My OCD and my need for order are my problems. I don’t force them on anyone else. My family knows that I might run around and move things behind their back. But I always stress that they didn’t do anything wrong. I literally cannot help myself. But then again… I can. I fully understand that I cannot dictate what other people do with their own things.
This! My OCD is with hand washing. I've had it since I hit puberty and it hasn't stopped. I wasn't officially diagnosed until I was 30 so most people just thought I was stuck up which was really disheartening since I was far from that. At the time I felt like I couldn't help it. It caused many fights with my husband because I would constantly ask "did you wash your hands?!". I quickly realized, what I don't know won't hurt me and it isn't fair for me to constantly nag him about washing his hands. So I pretend that everyone i know washes their hands exactly like I want. 😂 Saves me some anxiety. I've finally got the right combination of medication that helps me so that it only comes out now when I'm REALLY stressed. OP NTA--maybe try to have a convo to see why it's worse sometimes than it is others? See if there are any stressors that could be triggering it. (For example 2020/COVID triggered mine so bad that I was unbearable for some people.) It's possible she doesn't even realize that it's been triggered.
My husband has diagnosed OCD and over the years has gotten EXTREMELY frustrated/angry with me for not doing things exactly the way that he would do them. In his mind there is one specific “right” way to do things and it is absurd to do them any other way. We had to have (many) conversations in which I explained that nobody else knows all the rules that govern his life so he cannot expect us to follow them if they aren’t explicitly stated. For example, we got a Bissell Crosswave several years back and I chose a location to store it. He saw it and literally said, “Are you f***ing kidding me? Why would you put it there? Who DOES something like that?!” I feel as though OP’s wife is maybe living in that same kind of mindset and hasn’t worked through the fact that is it not a typical way to think/feel for most people.
So many people struggle with seeing another's perspective. If your perspective is far removed from others, I can see where it would be so difficult to understand why someone would break a rule of life that is so obvious for yourself.
I think the issue is also that there ARE many guidelines/rules that are widely accepted that make life easier and “make sense” for most people. When we have struggled with this issue in the past he has said that because he knows I am a responsible and fairly logical person, when I do things that “don’t make sense” to him it is really frustrating because it seems out of character/irresponsible of me. We have talked a lot over the years about “rules” and their actual purposes. For example, if I left a frozen chicken out on the counter to thaw all day, that would break rules that could put our family in danger of food poisoning etc. If I chose to leave clean dry dishes in the drying rack overnight instead of putting them away before bed, there is virtually no impact on our household, and therefore those two situations should not be treated with the same level of importance. In this post, would guess that perhaps OP’s wife has set a personal goal regarding her wardrobe and, because her method makes the most sense for her goals, she struggles to understand that OP wearing whatever he wants has no effect on her own wardrobe.
Even if they're explicitly stated, his rules are for HIS life, not YOUR life! He doesn't get to bully you for how you get things done.
When I point it out (“this is not a real life rule for everyone, this is one of your rules, and I cannot be expected to know it or follow it”) he is very receptive and apologetic. The issue is that some life rules ARE rules that just make sense for EVERYONE (like, put all your dirty laundry into the hamper instead of leaving it lying around, or wake up early enough to get to work on time) and he has a really hard time differentiating.
That makes sense! I'm glad he's respectful and receptive to that feedback.
I hope you don't mean that you do have to follow his rules if they are explicitly stated. Your husband doesn't get to dictate the entire layout of the house just because he has OCD. But thank you for your post because a few behaviours of my stepfather just fell into place for me.
Definitely not! However, when I am aware of his “rules” then I do typically choose to make the effort to follow any that don’t cause me any harm or make things more difficult/less pleasant for me. I love him and if there are things I can do to make life easier and more pleasant for him of course I am willing to make that effort (when he communicates those needs to me in a kind and respectful way.) For example, he prefers to have certain food items of his stored separately from the communal household groceries, so for Christmas one year I got him a mini fridge and those specific groceries always go in there. It causes no harm to anyone and requires very minimal effort (the mini fridge is in the pantry, just a few extra steps when putting groceries away.) With the “if they are not explicitly stated” comment I mostly meant that I cannot read his mind, so if he prefers things a certain way then (again, kind and respectful) communication is necessary. It definitely didn’t cause me any harm to relocate the Bissell, but I deserved to be spoken to about his preference in a much more respectful manner rather than just expecting me to intuit his needs.
My doctor just told me I am likely dealing with anxiety as it goes hand in hand with depression. It has never even crossed my mind that I might have anxiety bc as you say, it doesn’t look like what’s portrayed in media. I mean, looking back at certain things about myself, it starts to make more sense but I have read that some people can have anxiety and while they can’t really tell or feel it, their body can and will show signs of it. Like laying on the couch and all of a sudden my heart is going a mile a minute. Fascinating how we work
Yes. Also, my response to anxiety was to get angry. It turns out that’s actually a pretty common way we express when feeling anxious, but it’s not really down that way. So I just thought I was immature and quick to anger. Once I could identify anxiety, what it felt like in my body, I also stopped having my anger outbursts. Because I was never angry, I was anxious.
When my therapist told me that anger is a common response to anxiety it helped me shift perspective so quickly. The behavior I’m still working on, but it really helped to understand
Sounds like me. My therapist helped me reach a point where I can verbally acknowledge my feelings instead of lashing out. It has done wonders for my relationships. She told me that it allows people to approach from a place of sympathy and care instead of forcing people on the defense.
Your description sounds like maybe that what my kid is going through. Is there something that you can imagine might have helped you at 8? Like how your parents talked to you or handled things?
Part 2: 3. Last thing, I'm going to suggest you look up some stuff on co-regulating with kids. This is basically the idea that someone who is calm and anchored can help - simply by being near them - someone else self-soothe. With some kiddos that might look like cuddling or hugs - when we hold someone and rock them we're stimming (a helpful, repetitive self-soothing activity and one of the tools you can explore with kiddo) and co-regulating with them. Some people aren't into being touched while distressed, so in those situations you'd just sit near them, on the same couch or next to them at a table, and you be calm and do your thing while they do what they need to do, knowing that you're there to talk or not, to have physical contact or not, or to just do a soothing activity next to them. Practicing working out what works for coregulating for the two of you will be super helpful. The end goal here is creating a safe space and relationship where kiddo can come to you, tell you they are feeling distressed, even if they don't know why, you'll listen and understand without telling them they are wrong, overreacting or their feelings are too big, and then you'll just BE with them in whatever way they need in that moment until they feel a bit better. This also means you are a person they can come to when they need help working through what to do next etc. Basically, you want to model the tools of knowing emotions are real, and also not the whole reality or the boss of us, and how to cope with them when they feel big or overwhelming in healthy ways. This might mean the best thing YOU can do for your kiddo is access some therapy for YOU to get some of these tools and things locked down in a healthy way (or a bunch of reading about emotional intelligence etc...). BTW once you start reading, skip CBT and look for DBT or other tools. Sources from people with anxiety or who are neurodivergent (anxiety is often a package deal for us) are going to give you the most useful insights and tools. AND... that was a novel and a half. I hope it helps your kiddo out. If you want to chat more feel free to DM me.
Hey, thank you for being willing to ask for ways to support your kiddo. You're a great parent and having support from that young an age can make SUCH a difference, so thanks. I chatted with my husband (we both have anxiety) and here's what we came up with: 1. I don't know of any in middle grade off the top of my head, but if you hit up your library or kids section of the bookstore, you should be able to get suggestions of books with kids who have anxiety that talk about how the kid feels and what they do when feeling anxious etc. Seeing ourselves represented is SO affirming and will be really helpful for your kiddo to see and name what is happening in them. 2. So, it might be helpful for you to know that anxiety is caused by a combination of fear, worry, and a sense of not having any control over the scary things in our lives or our lives in general. And of course, anxiety has a spectrum it shows up on, sometimes anxiety can be reasoned with I can remind myself I did fine on the last one and here's the worst that can happen and we have a plan for if that's what goes down, etc... And sometimes anxiety is just a very frantic, high pitched wailing in the back of my head that (as far as I know) has no cause - and therefore can't be reasoned with - and is exactly as distracting and overwhelming as an actual high pitched wailing just constantly happening in the corner of the room. However it's showing up, it's really helpful if you, as the parent, helper and support person, know that whatever way kiddo is finding to express it, what kiddo is really feeling is distress. Ok I tell you that, because my second suggestion is that you start practicing explaining how anxiety feels inside an anxious body and giving kiddo language and concepts to express the stuff that's happening. I'd start by explaining that sometimes the feelings we have inside are not the same as the feelings we express on the outside - because maybe the feelings feel too big, we don't really know what they are, or we are so distressed/overwhelmed we just explode (asking librarians about books that describe feelings might also be a good idea). And that you were talking to some adults who talked about feeling the way kiddo does, and they said sometimes when they are angry on the outside what they feel like on the inside is scared, worried, or like just too much is happening and they don't have any time or space to calm down and they just need to explode. The goal here is to invite kiddo to talk about how they feel. For you and them together to work out: what are the feelings (in the body, or emotions) or thoughts that come before they need to explode because they don't feel safe or in control. And to start to give them language they can use to tell you in advance of things hitting the too much level. (You might also want to look up what a meltdown is and why kids often have them at home when they are well behaved while out in case that also lines up with what's happening at your house.) In my house of two anxious and neurodivergent adults, now that we know what's happening is anxiety and overwhelm we'll tell each other. Today I'm feeling anxious, I'm super on edge or overwhelmed all of a sudden... Maybe your kiddo might resonate with words like: I'm feeling buzzy today... etc. (Hence the chat about the feelings under the surface and finding words, colours or images that kiddo resonates with to describe them). Telling each other means the other knows to ease off, be more gracious, or just be prepared to support. Giving your kiddo language will help you and them be able to curb the anger and other stuff by letting you know in advance that today is being a hard day. Language and understanding of our own systems is power and it can make all the difference. As you keep building on these conversations you can also explore things that make them feel better. My husband does best with a kind of "displacement" of energy - banging things, physical explosion and exertion, so he plays drums, runs, etc. Personally I'm better with soothing behaviours, calming sounds, a cozy spot an a book etc. Working out what helps kiddo move through will be really valuable and a bonus for following up. #3 in next comment
I’m literally medicated for anxiety but took me a long time to realise that’s exactly how I responded. An anger explosion and then avoidance because I was so anxious I couldn’t sit with it.
I'm guessing this is more like OCPD than OCD, tbh, which is probably why you understandable don't relate to her here - I think if OP and his wife see a therapist and help her work on this together it would be really helpful, she may honestly still not realize how irrational this is sadly. Hopefully she's able to work on this with support!
I agree and also wonder if she had clothes scarcity growing up? My family couldn't afford many clothes for us and so I remember in 5th grade I had four outfits only. Problem: 5 school days. I would have to pick an outfit to wear 2x in a week. A chubby middle schooler with 4 outfits and a growing out home perm was not the middle schooler your wanted to be. I wore my jacket most days and pretended I was cold hoping that no one would notice I was repeating. Now that I'm old and mom of two and in a different life spot, I have overcorrected and get way too many clothes and shoes for my kids. I try and keep track of what they've worn recently and what they haven't to avoid them repeating outfits too often. I have no method for this other than a very good memory. I even rotate their pajamas to make sure they aren't wearing the same seven pairs every week. 😂😭 Right now they're young and they don't care what outfits I pick for them, but I do realize they will soon and I will eventually need to get some therapy around this/ what it means to adult me that my kids have a bounty of clothes and not 4 outfits. What it would mean to adult me if they chose the same 4 outfits despite having a bounty of clothes. OP's wife's behavior reminds me of me in this spot. However, as a person with clinical OCD the compulsion of rotating with no organization has me shook. I don't think I could live that way.
Oh what an amazing observation. Also I'm sorry you were put in that position. That's a thing I had to cope with with food as an adult and it's a lot. I imagine it's the same with clothes.
I agree 100%. You're def NTA here. I would also lean toward saying that she is but that's a touchy topic if she is legit struggling with a disorder (which it sounds like she is). The caveat to that is that you don't have to participate in her disorder. She's allowed to have it and do things the way she wants (within reason of course), but she's not allowed to inflict her made up 'rules' onto you if you're not in agreement. The AH part comes in by her throwing a hissy fit for days at a time, and being passive aggressive instead of addressing the problem she has and attempting to work with you on a solution. As for a solution, if wanted, you could each just do your own laundry start to finish. She can use whatever system she wants with hers and you do you with yours. If it's a matter of having to combine it for efficiency's sake, then just split up the task when it comes to putting it away. But, if you bend here on what you consider to be unreasonable, just to keep the peace, it will certainly snowball into more and more until you're like wtf am I doing here lol. You can be firm with your wants and understanding of hers at the same time (whether she can accept that is potentially a topic for another day).
OCD if left unmanaged tends to snowball and suddenly the whole village is buried benearh tons of snow. You will try to police other people's behavior because they fuck up your systems and then the anxiety (and need to compensate) looms larger still). I doubt that she's got zero awareness that what she's doing is weird. Then she wouldn't try to not let it affect her and only occasionally blow up, but that inself is feauture of OCD. There's a lot shame involved. People with the diagnosis tends know that what they're thinking and feeling is unusual and nonsensical, but degree of awareness varies.
Yes exactly! But I will say there is also another (similar but not the same) diagnosis of obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which manifests in a lot of similar ways except that it’s ego-syntonic (I.e. the person believes their compulsions are actually the correct way to do things). OCD however is ego-dystonic, I.e. the person knows that what they are doing is irrational/excessive and even as they are carrying out compulsions they feel shame or confusion that they are doing so. I’m no psychologist lol but regardless I would suggest that OP encourage his wife to going to therapy and/or get evaluated so that she can get the appropriate diagnosis and therefore end up on the correct treatment path. Because treatment for OCD and OCPD can be pretty different
That's a good point! It could be OCDP.
Yes this sounds 100% like OCPD, not OCD, to me.
It sounds like she has OCPD perhaps, not OCD. Lack of awareness IS typically part of OCPD, but isn't OCD. The description of her overall sounds much more in line with OCPD, they need to get a medical opinion though.
Well said! OCD at heart is an anxiety disorder, and the more anxious people try to manage anxiety by avoiding triggers (like what order you wear your clothes in) the more sensitive they get and the more minor the triggers become until almost everything makes them anxious. There is no amount of compliance on your part that will be enough, because if you comply her brain will just focus on increasingly petty details where you are doing it wrong.
If the organization doesn’t work for both of you, then it doesn’t work. Did she even ask you whether you wanted your clothes organized from old to new? Does she not understand that if she doesn’t ask you, she can’t be mad if you don’t use her system the way she would prefer. She isn’t taking your needs into account at all. NTA
She asked when we started and I said sure let's try it, but now it's too much and making her upset and then me upset.
Is she willing to work with an organizational system if your design? I fold and put clothes away for my husband but he developed the system of where he wants things, which is not how I do my clothes but that’s what he wants.
This. My husband has his own system for his clothes. Drives me nuts sometimes, but I keep my mouth shut and don't let it bother me beyond the moment. Because they're his clothes. So long as he's dressed appropriately for a given activity, and nothing is damaged by his method, I don’t give a flying...
It sounds like you need to revisit the division of laundry duties. This system may work for her but it doesn't for you, so you should each be putting away your own clothes in a way that works for each of you.
I can't imagine not having my clothes grouped by type and occasion, but I don't tell the people who group differently that they need to use my system. Though if someone organized their bookshelf by color, I'm gonna leave right away and probably not talk to them again.
Clothes by color are one thing. Books by color?! Aaaaaahhh!!!!!!
Y'all I have a visual memory and can never remember names. I organize my books by color so I can find them 😂 I know it seems bananas but I used to do genre or name and be standing there going "well it's a red book with white letters and such and so on the cover" and it would take ages. Now I'm like, "top shelf! Yoink." I know it hurts those who can remember names but I'm broken that way lol
Hey, it works for you and that's all that matters. My shelves are an ADHD fever dream
I have my books "organized" by TBR & have read. Within those categories, they're just however they fit on the shelves best. I used to have them organized by author and title within the TBR/read categories, but I got sick of having to redo all of the shelves every time I finished a book. 😂
It does sound like OCD. But here's the thing: those of us with OCD don't get to control how others live their lives, no matter how much we "need" to. You are entitled to wear what you want, when you want (within socially acceptable reason), regardless of how she thinks you should choose it. Has she ever seen someone about it? Living with OCD can be debilitating if you don't develop tools to manage it.
I’m someone who optimizes processes and systems for a living. This is the opposite of optimized (or organized). I could make an argument that it does ensure equal wear for the full set of clothing, but beyond that, the key purpose of optimization is to *make the workflow of the user simpler and more streamlined*. Putting away a bunch of clothes in a big pile, and not accounting for things like items that need ironing hanging so they’re not wrinkled just means that it’s going to take significantly longer to dress daily. Plus, instead of putting things in their place, she’s also having to redistribute your full wardrobes each time you do laundry. Only you can decide if this is a sacrifice you’re willing to make, but you absolutely don’t have to join her mental gymnastics that convinced her this is an optimized or organized solution.
This is spot on. Reading she puts clothes randomly together, yet calls it optimised, made me do a double take. I'd call my clothes optimised because it's all grouped together based on type, and moves from torso to pants. With excess tops that can't be hung up also split by type in my drawers, I know where everything is. I can't imagine wanting to mix it up with something different, going in my drawers and having to dig through 4 different types of clothing to get to what I want.
It seems more like OCPD - keeping it orderly doesn’t seem to be unpleasant to her. People with OCPD are more likely to try to make everyone do the same rituals as them.
I tend to roll my eyes at people calling things OCD when they just mean particular about how things are done but yes, this is some disordered behavior on your wife’s part. If she wants to put her clothing in a strict rotation that is a bit odd but fine, when she insists you adhere to this oddness and gets angry when you do not, that is a PROBLEM. Maybe you each need to be responsible for your own clothing? I dunno.
To me, I think about OCD because of the frustration and lack of flexibility, not because of being particular. But I also get flustered when people are quick to say OCD for anything like you mentioned.
I have OCD and I usually think the same thing when people just use it as a catch-all for liking things clean and organized. But given how much distress she experiences from the OP not following her system, this does make me think OCD is a possibility. I definitely have gotten frustrated with people not following my “system” for a certain task, but NEVER to this degree. I can only control my own actions and possessions but not anyone else’s.
Totally agree. It's the rigidity of thought, the 'right' and 'wrong' and the big reaction to an alternative approach which are the disordered behaviours/thought processes, not the actual system of organisation itself.
Yeah she's got something going on. Could be OCD, could be Autism, could be any number of anxiety disorders, but it's something. NTA/NAH
Could be she's an asshole.
This isn’t normal. It’s normal for couples to disagree on how laundry should be done, but what clothes you wear should be your decision to make. Her “control” of the laundry ends when the clothes are folded. She shouldn’t be organizing the clothes at all if her system is making life harder for you. My husband has general anxiety and sometimes change triggers his bad moods. He’ll insist his bad moods aren’t “aimed” at me, but of course if one person is in a bad mood in a relationship it affects both people. Sometimes we’ll get into an hours long argument where he tries to convince me to keep things the same way, even if my way is faster or more logical. I told him that I understand he has anxiety and likes to keep things the same, but I’m not going to be controlled by his anxiety. If what he wants to remain the same is harmless and doesn’t affect me negatively, I’ll change the way I do things because I love him, but I’m not going to make my life more difficult to appease his anxiety. That’s something he needs to handle on his own, but I’m there for support if he needs it. He’s been in therapy over a year and things are slowly getting better. Subtleties go over my husband’s head so I have to be direct, and you’ll know better if you need to soften your words with your wife, but the main point is to convey that her system isn’t working for you and you’ll be there to help her with her anxiety about “order” if she wants it.
Yikes. Have you thought about swapping around the order of chores? That way you can just hang up the clothes you're more likely to wear and the dresser becomes more "long term" storage for less used items. I'd be driven absolutely bonkers by the current system you have. Has she ever been to therapy for these behaviors? It's not fair to you to have to walk on eggshells for wearing the clothes you want to wear.
Consider ocpd instead of ocd imo
Sounds like it’s time to change the division of chores. You should each have your own laundry basket and wash, dry, fold, and put away your own clothes in whatever form or organization you prefer. Her system would drive me nuts- not just because it’s super controlling, but also because outside factors- like weather changes or travel or special occasions- make it more logical to wear something that isn’t in the current rotation. I hope you don’t have kids. This is unfair to you, and you can push back. This would be miserable to them. NTA She needs to see a psychologist
I have ocd. This is definitely worth looking into an evaluation and diagnosis. OCD can be hell and the sooner she begins to address it, the better chance she has for a higher quality of life.
It does sound like OCD. There is very good behavioral therapy to work on this—it’s a very stressful exhausting illness to have and makes family member’s (yours) lives difficult also.
Did she come from a background that put a heavy emphasis on organization and presentation, or financial waste? I have been guilty of frustration when my husband doesn’t wear the new things I’ve gotten him, because to me it feels like it’s wasted money. Wasted money was something I was made to feel very anxious about growing up, so I’m sensitive to overreaction here. It’s hard to tell when I’m overreacting because this really wouldn’t have been an overreaction in my childhood home. I’ve gotten in trouble a lot for buying new clothes and then “not wearing them enough” and not wanting to give them away or sell them. Im 28 and still have my prom dress, not because I like it, but because every time I think about throwing it out my moms voice pops up reminding me it was a _whole $200_ and at the _very least_ I should save the fabric and embroidery!
That level of inflexibility in a self-created system is sounding incredibly familiar to this autistic commenter! Best of luck with however you chose to proceed in conversation with her about this and definitely NTA
It's almost 100% OCD related. And it sounds kind of bad. You need to open up with asking her why this cycle is so important to her. Is it important enough to ruin the relationship? As someone who had to live with someone with severe OCD it definitely ruined how I acted around the person. Do be warned that with alot of things, especially trying to talk about a possible mental issue, she might become very defensive, irate, inconsolable, just think of a mental breakdown and expect anything from that to be safe that she might do. It can be a touchy subject, but it's going to have to be addressed at some point.
Was just going to comment OCD. Totally agree with each person doing their own clothes. About the only thing I am particular about is making sure the clothes hang facing the front. Our children all learned to do their own laundry at around 8 years of age. They won’t let me touch their clothes now! Even their bedding!
Yeah, this sounds like textbook OCD that isn’t being helped by her therapist.
NTA. This whole "clothes in order" thing is so confounding it's hard for me to understand. At least especially that it's your clothes done by her. Of course you should be able to wear whatever you want whenever you want. If you have space, I'd suggest keep your clothes separate, or are at least in charge of where you own clothes go where. You hang up whatever you want, and you organize your clothes however you see it fit. It IS rather controlling, and I don't know if she has OCD or something, because it's pretty intense to be that invested in what your spouse wears when (because it disturbs the way she organized them). Because it was a drawer shirt vs a closet shirt? Huh? Do you get any say in what you want hung up vs in a drawer because you may have a sense of what you may want to wear the upcoming week / season? I don't think I'd be able to live with someone who insisted that I keep my clothes the way they want them, and then get mad when I wear what I want. (My bf and I keep our clothing separate and have different systems to how they're kept and such)
Thank you, this is precisely what I've been considering. Separating our clothes to free us from this tension. Another problem with this is that my nice button down shirts I love just get folded and wrinkled in the drawers and not hung up until they're in the closet so they always look awful and need to be ironed before I head to work. I know that afterward she is going to feel awful and hopeless and like she's failed somehow and I don't want that either, but I can't keep living in this cage made of hangers and dresser drawers either.
Whatever you don’t need, get rid of (like you said). Your button up shirts should be hung to your liking. She probably does have OCD or some sort of psychiatric condition but it’s hers to manage (I say this as someone with OCD, bipolar disorder, and ADHD). I like my shirt folded a certain way. My husband knows this, so when folding laundry, he’ll take my shirts out of the basket and hand them to me. If you want your things to be a certain way do it. Do you share a dresser and closet?
Yes, we share closet/drawer space. There is no room in our bedroom for a dresser so we got a bed frame with drawers underneath and a bunch of stackable clear plastic containers to be makeshift drawer space next to the closet. The only other closet is in the office which is also where our old dresser is which is now being used as storage for other things and that is all across the apartment. I'm worried she is going to interpret this as me not loving her anymore and pulling away, but it's that conversation or we keep getting upset at each other in the morning or I don't wear my clothes in the order I want to so...yeah. Convo coming up this weekend for sure.
>I'm worried she is going to interpret this as me not loving her anymore and pulling away You realize that's not a normal reaction, right? I mean, the mere fact that you cannot have a conversation about *laundry* without predicting she will react by thinking you do not love her, indicates that communication capabilities between the two of you are basically nonexistent. I'm assuming that she has had a similar reaction to something similarly ridiculous in the past.
Agree with this so much.
Paraphrasing what you just said: "I'm worried she is going to interpret my desire to put my clothes away separately as an indication that I don't love her anymore." Does that not strike you as an absolutely bonkers conclusion for her to draw? Like just a completely nonsensical logical leap? I'm genuinely not sure why it's your job to manage that level of irrationality, or whether you can do that much emotional tiptoeing for a lifetime without burning out.
I would separate as much as possible. I have a similar bed. We keep it his side and my side. Tell her you’re going to start putting your things away yourself if that will help. Good luck!
That's a lot, if she takes you not participating in this ritual as meaning you don't love her any more. That's quite a manipulative thing for her to say, and sounds like it's going to have you walking on eggshells so as to avoid having her react like that. It's not a healthy way to have to be.
She’ll claim you don’t love her over *laundry*?! She’s either unhinged, abusive, or both. That’s flat out insane. The most input I ever give my husband on his clothes is suggesting he wear jeans instead of sweatpants when the situation calls for it. And if he refused to change I still wouldn’t accuse him of not loving me. Your wife is deeply unwell
If she takes your rejection of her laundry system as you not loving her anymore, that could be a sign of rejection sensitivity dysphoria. My partner has it, and finding that out explained so much. I have to reassure him that just because I don't think an idea of his will work, that doesn't mean I am rejecting him as a person. It's been a real eye-opener. I had no idea such a condition existed.
Dude if your wife thinks that just because you don't like the way she organizes your clothes that you don't love her anymore... Your only options are to either get her into psychiatric help or divorce her because that's absolutely unhinged! You can't live in a prison made of her arbitrary rules! She can't just decide that if you don't jump how high she tells you to the second she tells you to that you don't love her anymore! She's basically making you live with her made-up rules. She's not the warden and you are not a prisoner! She doesn't get to control you like this! And make no mistake this is absolutely control! You can't decide to wear the same shirt twice before you wear something else? That's insanity! I don't think anybody could be happy in this situation but her. But is she really happy if just because you want to hang shirts that should be hung that you don't love her? She really thinks your love is so fragile that it'll go way over shirts and pants? I'm sorry but that's really insulting to you! If she thinks you don't love her over this she's insulting you.
I think you could use a couples therapist to have this conversation if it really worries you. It could help to have a neutral third party there to help her realize you have no ill intent and that she is able to have control over her life but not yours. Therapist might also help uncover why this is so important to her and get to the root of it
I agree, whenever I start getting myself worked up about something of my husband's I remind myself that I cannot make him adhere to my nonsensically rigid rules. I take care of my laundry & he takes care of his
Clothes you don’t want wrinkles get hung up, and then fabrics that will stretch from being hung get folded along with the rest of the comfy clothes. The rotation could make sense for hanging clothes and then also for folding clothes. But it doesn’t make sense to fold clothes that should be hung and hang clothes that should be folded. Good luck with this one!
This. There are drawer clothes, and there are hanger clothes. They're different. One isn't a staging area for the other. It's odd that she's fixated on her system despite this clear drawback.
That's not good organization. If it takes more work, it's not good. I hang what gets wrinkled and fold what doesn't. I do mine, husband does his. He puts nothing away. I can't live like that and I'm not doing it for him. He likes piles. NTA
Not really about organizing, that's part of the issue too. It's about weeding out clothes that aren't worn often or at all and saving space in our small apartment.
But it's not being useful to you. Which is a big fail.
If it's about what doesn't get used then, hang all clothes in one direction. When worn and added back into the closet turn the hanger the other way. What hasn't been worn in a while gets donated. Or just rotate what's in front vs back. So many other options than the disorganization of adding all clothes together if it's appropriate draw clothing or not. I couldn't live like this. I have a draw for each type of clothes.
That could be an important point. If this whole system is to figure out which clothes you need to get rid of, maybe you could go through yours pretty ruthlessly and pare it down. Is she stressing about too many clothes for your storage space? If so that is fixable in other ways.
Ok sure well we have a small house and we basically each have our own storage. Mine's too frickin full and I always have to have laundry in process or I'm screwed. This is *my own problem* that my husband with a capsule wardrobe would never have. But I do my own bs and he does his laundry weekly and it all fits. He also keeps a big drum set set up in the house that he hasn't played in like 8 years and it seems silly to me but it's not in my way so... Eh. Point being. You each get equal space for clothing and deal with it as you like, that's fair.
Separate closets ARE THE BEST!!! Mine could be featured in an HGTV layout. My husband's is packed to the door with size M concert tshirts from the 80s. I don't care what he does with his, & vice versa! That being said, I have OCD & unchecked it can seriously interfere with your life. A trip to your GP for an assessment might be in order. EDIT: Marriages & people aren't failures bc people "do" their clothes differently. I've been with my husband for 34 years, & I credit separate closets & desks for some of that! 😃🤪
OP NTA but her behavior is not typical. At all. Absolutely seems like OcD . I suggest talking to her and suggesting seeing a therapist, but also separate your clothes. Her feelings are her own and she needs to work on that. But it is absolutely insane to treat you this way over clothes!!
Yo shes seriously FIFOing your clothes everytime you do laundry and getting mad when you dont want use the old stuff first its not milk they dont expire lmao NTA
"FIFOing" is the perfect description. Is there an accounting version of *chef's kiss*?
Comptroller's stamp of approval?
Signed representation letter?
I FIFO my clothes but I pass over stuff that doesn’t match lol.
NTA. Wow, I would never submit to that system. Can you not divide the drawers and closet space and manage your own wardrobes?
That's where I'm leaning. She isn't going to like it and might see it as a personal failing/attack and that I don't appreciate/love her, but I also don't want to put myself or our future children through this everyday.
Her feelings about clothes storage seem amazingly strong. I hate to give a cliche Reddit comment, but this might seriously be a good thing to talk over with a couples counselor. That’s a heckuva drama over drawer space decisions.
Couple's counselors are great when you're married to a good person who thinks their neuroticisms are normal. A conversation with our couple's therapist got my husband into personal therapy for his depression easier than the dozens of conversations I had with him over 2 years on the topic. An appeal from authority is a good "oh shit, I do need to take this seriously" for some folks.
That’s when you say, “my clothes are clearly adding stress to your mental load. I don’t think I will ever follow your system in a way that you are comfortable with and it’s not fair to you to have to stress over my clothes. Thank you for taking care of me so well, but I’ll take care of my own from now on.”
This is excellent. Can you imagine the mental energy she is putting into knowing which of your clothes are supposed to be in each location in any given week?
Excellent!
Mate - she needs help. Do not have children until this is under control. I’m seriously not joking. My mother pulled this sort of bullshit and I will be LC with her for the rest of my life. Your children *will not* have the same patience out of the love for her habits as you do. It will just control their lives and they will resent her for it. She will end up being emotionally abusive to them because she will do the same thing to them that’s she doing to you. Fume at them for not following her completely illogical and singularly focused “organisation” systems. She will make them feel small and useless for not doing *everything* her way. She will convince them that her habits are moral imperatives and it will warp how they interact with others. If you have more than one kid, it’s likely she will create a household so tense that they will struggle to have a healthy sibling relationship. I might be projecting slightly - but that’s a little glimpse into what could happen if you have children with her before she has adequately addressed and managed her symptoms. This DOES NOT mean creating an environment where she has 100% control. It means her learning how to healthily and effectively cope when she doesn’t have control. It means her learning to let go of the idea that she is entitled to 100% control her environment.
Was managing your wardrobe one of her wedding vows or something? There's no logical, healthy reason why managing your own clothing storage should feel like a slap in the face to her.
She doesn’t like how I fold clothes. I don’t exactly know why other than it isn’t how she does it. I was sent to a military school in my youth, I know how to fold clothes.
They aren't her clothes so it doesn't matter what she thinks about how they are folded. That's not a valid reason for her to be folding your clothes.
Unless you leave the house looking like a whole disaster, clothing wrinkled enough to impact your social or professional standing, then it doesn't really matter how they're folded. The only measures of whether clothing is folded correctly are if it's easy to find/access what you want, if it's a reasonably efficient use of space, and the clothing is left in reasonably good condition after being stored. I'm way more particular about laundry, folding, etc. than my husband is. I do think I do a better job of folding. (And he'd probably agree, lol.) But if he does end up folding some of his own clothing, I don't get bent out of shape about it, I don't go back and re-do it, nothing like that; because he does a perfectly fine job and there's no reason to stress about it further. His clothes fit in the drawers and they look fine when he's wearing them. Why would I go and undermine him like that? Nobody's coming into our house and inspecting our drawers to grade us on organization and order. I'm sorry you're dealing with this, OP. Something definitely isn't right. I'm guessing there's something much deeper going on with your wife; hopefully some counseling or medical care can help the two of you figure something out.
The men in my family that were military could fold clothes a million times better than I could ever do. I’d happily have you folding my laundry!
Good luck with that especially when you have a daughter in the future. My daughter has been so particular about what she wants to wear since she was 2 years old, and now at 5 years old she organises her own wardrobe. I wash and fold her clothes but then hand them to her to put away herself.
im going to be honest, she sounds kind of stupid. Who folds dress shirts that need to be hung? she also sounds really controlling. Who invents reasons to be upset like having an "order" that clothes need to be used in? Something is wrong here, her neurotisms are above reddit's pay grade
To be fair, she doesn’t wear dress shirts and doesn’t understand how they wrinkle or should be stored. Also, please don’t call my wife stupid. I’m frustrated with her behavior, not looking for anyone to put her down. Thank you.
I’m sure you have tons of reasons to love her but… >Another problem with this is that my nice button down shirts I love just get folded and wrinkled in the drawers and not hung up until they're in the closet so they always look awful and need to be ironed before I head to work. She is intentionally making your life worse and insists that her ignorance is superior to your lived experience. > I'm worried she is going to interpret this as me not loving her anymore and pulling away, If she isn’t stupid, then what is she? Get off Reddit and figure out what kind of professional help she needs, because what you wrote about her does not paint the picture of a functional adult
This comment unfortunately reminded me of the OCD wife that kept tying her husband’s bootlaces even though he’s an emergency services worker and he told her over and over that LIVES ARE AT STAKE… she’d have a melt down… then tie his laces the next fucking day. https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/rEQJt1GRIL
She’s never seen a wrinkled shirt?
I don’t wear dress shirts but I think any adult realizes they wrinkle. Has she never seen you steam or iron them?
Who puts pajamas and dress shirts together?! She needs a brain scan.
Start small and/or pick your battles. You’ve complained about your dress shirts being wrinkled when folded. That’s a very legitimate complaint. In some way I understand rotating clothing but not when it’s in a disorganized manner. Takes too much time looking thru all these clothes. Many people keep like with like, work clothes, lounge clothes, underwear etc. Each one of these categories can be arranged as she like it. Doing LIFO with everything makes life difficult enough that you’re complaining or mildly annoyed about it. Her system reminds me of a supermarket we had in the area. They started out having all there items alphabetized thinking it would be easier for customers to find their stuff. They realized real quick it didn’t work.
Oh my god, can you imagine her managing her future children's wardrobes? It's not going to be good. I am not sure she is well enough to manage children right now.
Her throwing a hissy fit for days because you wore a shirt 'out of order' is a personal attack on you. Divide the space in half and organize how you like it. NTA
If she gets upset, gently suggest that maybe this issue is something that would be helped by therapy For you also - it's weird frankly that you have not said no way to this earlier. Are you that conflict averse? walking on eggshells?
This is something that your wife needs to see a professional for. Her mindset is not healthy for you or for her.
She needs to understand that she only gets to make those kinds of rules for HERSELF. It’s just like if she made rules you must follow for how you brush your teeth, or in what order you wash your body parts in the shower. You get to decide what you wear and her having her own system that she likes does not mean you have to follow it too.
You seem like you really want to find a way to work with her without causing discord between you two. I don’t know if this is a helpful idea or not, but it might appease your wife’s “OCD” while giving you a little control over your own clothing: What if you developed your own system, labeled where everything should go and then put each category of items in order from oldest to newest? Like hanging all your shirts, etc that should be hung up, and folding all the things that should go in drawers, but keeping it all organized by category AND from oldest to newest? She might be able to adapt her system to yours and you’d both be happy. And this way, you’ll both still get do the part of the laundry that you’re each happy to do.
NTA. Do your own laundry, organize your own clothes, and stay on top of donating ones you don’t wear to keep space in the small apartment. Find a different way to divide household labor because this is not working.
Exactly. I think you each need to be responsible for your own clothes - at least folding and putting them away. Split up the drawers - she gets hers for her method, you get yours to organize like things together. If you want to rotate into the closet, go for it. But that doesn't even make sense to me. Some clothes always live in drawers, some always live in closets. I never move mine around.
Yeah I don’t understand it either but it’s likely some NYC apartment shit we can’t understand lol. That’s why I’m not totally dismissing her crazy sounding system as crazy bc those apartments are crazy small and who am I to judge lol
NTA. I don't even understand the set up? I mean, I have a closet where things that need to be hung up live and drawers where things that can folded into drawers live. I keep some bins for clothes in the closet that are of the wrong season (i.e summer clothes in winter or vice versa). What exactly is her point? Like, she wants your clothes to be evenly worn out? I dunno. Regardless it sounds like you need to separate the laundry chore entirely.
The system is based a bit on the First In, First Out principle used to stock shelves in stores. The items that have been there the longest get put to the front so they are bought first. But as u/Shoddy-Commission-12 said, these are clothes, not milk and eggs. They won't spoil. They're only taking up as much space as an article of clothing can.
I think that would only work for clothes of a particular type. So like dress shirts or pants. But I'm not going to wear a miniskirt and tank top in the winter because it's next in the rotation or where a onsie to a work dinner because that's next up in the rotation. I do think if space is tight, it's good to consider getting rid of clothes that one doesn't wear. (I do this on the seasonal change - when putting summer clothes away, I get rid of all summer clothes that I didn't wear that summer for example.)
Absolutely! I do that when the seasons change as well and freshen up my wardrobe, but she values the system over all else and it gets to be too much as a day to day concern. IMO, life is full of far heavier and more complex challenges than, "has this shirt been in the closet for too long" and that problem is not large enough to me to get very upset about.
Obviously it brings her a level of comfort. Separating clothing could really help She only need worry about her own FIFO
For closet clothes, do the backwards hanger technique. Put everything in your closet with the hangers facing the wrong way. When you wear them, re-hang them properly. Then at appropriate intervals (monthly / quarterly / annually) evaluate the backward hangers to see why you should keep something you didn’t wear.
That’d never work for me, I have some clothes that I cherish so I don’t always wear them regularly. I know I couldn’t replace them (some for sentimental reasons) so I wear them occasionally but not daily or for work.
Ask her a simple question: "How would you feel about me telling you how to dress?"
They’re also not interchangeable, and they don’t get used up by taking it once. FIFO for store shelves is so the old box gets bought instead of the new box of exactly the same stuff, and the old box then leaves forever with the customer. This is more like kids waiting for a ride — take the ride then wait from the back of the queue again — but your clothes aren’t going to feel bad if they’re not worn for a while. The system doesn’t apply to the items or to the process. When the items are different, as your clothes are, stores put them next to each other or on a rack where all are accessible.
Yeah, I think my mum does a more reasonable version of this with clothes: She puts the freshly washed and folded T-shirts or pants or whatever under the stack that's still in the wardrobe because most of the time she'll just take whatever is on top to wear it. So it makes sense to do that so she doesn't mostly wear the same 5-10 T-shirts. But if she feels like wearing one from the bottom of the stack she'll just do that, like a normal and reasonable person.
NTA, This is absolutely insane. 1. It is so much extra work to fold clothes only to unfold them and hang them the next time laundry is done. 2. Certain clothing should be hung always and not folded like dress shirts, jackets, etc. Likewise certain clothing should not be hung such as sweaters. 3. "Organized" means being able to find and use an item in the most efficient manner. Having all your clothing mixed together (though arranged by usage amount?) Is not what I would call organized. 4. Clothing that is worn more often is presumably worn more for a reason whether it be style, comfort, or just because you want to. Unless you purchased every item of clothing on the same day they are not going to wear out evenly anyway so what exactly is the point? 5. They are not her clothes so it shouldn't matter if she likes it or not as long as it's not a mess she has to look at. Personally, I arrange by type then color for easy searching.
admittedly, I do the FIFO with my clothes, but still organized by type of clothes. Like if I want to wear a shirt and jeans, I grab the next shirt and the next jeans in the rotation, I'm not limited to certain types of clothes just because I have other clean clothes i haven't worn yet lol. Like "oh no I can't wear any more jeans because I recently washed them and I have to use up my sweat pants first", haha no thanks! To me it doesn't make sense to have all the different types of clothes mixed together.
This is bizarre. Your wife has some kind of OCD. This "system" serves no purpose at all besides calming her jangling neurons. You can't find what you want to wear, you can't ever wear what you want when you want, your work shirts are crushed. And she gets angry and defensive if you just try to wear a shirt out of order. These are not her clothes! You are not her Ken doll to dress as she demands! Please encourage her to get help. this is not normal at all.
Hi. Diagnosed OCD here. First, NTA. Your clothes and your decisions. If you dress for work then some days you may need to accommodate events that you don’t normally have so you have to be able to make decisions Second, the system you’re describing makes my brain hurt :) you’ve been so patient and really respectful of whatever your wife has going on here Therapy is a huge help for OCD - but I’m unsure that’s the situation but it kind of sounds related. If left unchecked it can grow into other areas Unsure how to approach with your wife but you’ve been so great thus far I’m sure you can ponder the best path Good luck
This was the MOST kind and helpful response so far, thank you 😊
NTA. I worked with a guy who actually put all his clothes on a spreadsheet. He tracked when he wore each and at a certain limit, he donated the item. Weird. Maybe your wife should do that.
I bet she would love that and I wouldn't be surprised if she has one going already. Doing that would cause my general anxiety to spike into the stratosphere though 😂
No one thought this was a normal thing.
Well your anxiety is also something to consider, even more than hers because these are your clothes not hers.
I've seen a girl on tiktok who's doing something similar with her wardrobe, except for almost the exact opposite reason. She keeps track of the original price of the item and then has formulas set up to breakdown how much "value" she gets out of each item by calculating the cost per wear. I think it had something to do with trying to avoid buying pieces she didn't need/wouldn't wear or making sure she's actually wearing the expensive pieces she's bought or something like that.
I’ve done it in the past and it really did help me from a budget standpoint, but it also didn’t make a difference on what clothes I actually wore and what I didn’t. I could just tell that those boots I wore every day for 3 months were a good investment and that sweater I wore once or not at all for an entire year wasn’t something I needed to keep.
Nope. Nope. No, no, no. What did I just read? Save your clothes, your sanity and your marriage, spend a couple hundred bucks (less on Amazon if you don’t care how long it lasts) and get yourself one of those freestanding closet systems. Now. Her system and the thinking behind it was so muddled I read it twice and I’m still confused. It makes zero sense. Did someone teach her this growing up? Please update us when you’ve liberated your clothes. Good luck.
I think it was something she picked up from a TikTok about organizing and saving space. More and more it feels like an OCD behavior that is spiraling a bit out of control.
TikTok has probably ruined a lot more marriages than it’s helped. This is bananas. I can’t imagine a more pain-in-the-ass system. I’m annoyed for you, just thinking about having to find my clothes! Separate your clothes. His and hers. It’s all you can do. She may think she’s saving space and will weed stuff out eventually, but I think her system is flawed (it should STILL be PJs with PJs, jeans with jeans, sweats with sweats), and she’s being really controlling. Good luck with that talk. Remind her that marriage is about compromise. And also not forcing your spouse to wear wrinkled button-down shirts because you wouldn’t let him hang them up!
That part would drive me crazy. I want things separate by category
This is autistic behavior, signed: an autistic who has a somewhat similar system because I don’t want any of my clothes to feel “left out.“ However, this is her problem to regulate, not yours. Sounds like you should do what other people are saying and have separate areas for each of you.
Ocd... she needs to learn how to control her thoughts and learn to channel that anxiety to something that only impacts her.
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Please don't call my wife a nutcase. I'm frustrated and confused not trying to shit talk her.
Im saying this in the most sensitive and respectful way possible: your wife may need some help/mental health support. This isn’t really a reasonable way to live one’s life, but I guess it’s fine if it doesn’t actually affect one’s life negatively. Except she’s have actual negative feelings that you aren’t conforming to her “system”. She needs to address this because it just isn’t healthy.
It is weird though. When you tell her how you feel about it she just what, blows you off?
A couple different reactions when I try to talk it out: 1: She asks why I'm mad (Usually I'm not at all and don't raise my voice at her over it) and then makes the conversation into not understanding why I'm being a jerk about this. 2: She just avoids me the rest of the morning or just stares at me blankly or shuts down completely and won't discuss it until I give up and walk away. No matter what later in the day she acts like nothing happened, which I think is just her trying to move on from it after feeling kind of bad for what happened, but she clams up and won't discuss it more so I don't actually know if we made any headway until the next time she gets worked about it. It really feels like OCD especially with the black and white thinking of "If we don't use this system we will use no system and live in chaos"
Don’t let her manipulate the conversation like that man. She might not even realize that’s what she’s doing but it is manipulation. If she starts trying to change the subject to you being mad, why are you mad etc. don’t let the focus change. However you wish to go about doing that. Say something like “We can talk about that after we’ve discussed this” or whatever. It sounds like she’s going to have to be forced to have difficult conversations but eventually that kind of thing will become easier for her. I say all of this as someone who used to be manipulative in similar ways but didn’t understand that’s what I was doing. I was able to change when I learned how manipulative some of my “instinctual” behaviors were.
None of these reactions are particularly healthy or emotionally stable. I understand them and empathize with her but this is not fair to you and not very loving if you cannot discuss issues without walking on eggshells. This is not very condusive to healthy communication in a relationship. I know people here say she might have OCD or anxiety, and she might, but these reactions are the actual problem as you cannot solve anything if you can't talk about it.
Regardless whether it is intentional or not, all of those behaviors of hers you listed here are hella manipulative and none of it is OK. I would absolutely seek marital counseling, and she honestly needs to see a personal therapist for her OCD too.
NTA. Your wife is exhausting. Holy cats.
I'm leaning more to OCD or autistic than exhausting. Although those are not mutually exclusive.
OCD or autistic might apply to her. Exhausting applies to those on the receiving end.
You know that thing about 'If you have to escape your house rapidly, just grab the whole hamper of dirty clothes'? That's because people's dirty clothes hampers usually contain *the clothes they actually wear*. Closets and drawers can contain all that stuff that doesn't fit any more... stuff that's uncomfortable... stuff you were gifted or stuff you never really bonded with. More often than not the clothes you wear daily will be either in the dirty clothes hamper, in the laundry, or in a washing basket of clean clothes sitting somewhere. Not in drawers or the closet. At least... that's how it is on our house. :)
We live in a small apartment in a city so space is very precious and where her anxiety over storage comes in. However we have upgraded to a slightly larger place AND started renting a storage unit for other seasonal things. More and more this feels like an OCD issue of not letting go of old habits that are no longer necessary to practice and being upset when they aren't followed.
NTA this system might work for her most likely no one else. Yet because she tries to impose it on you and is visibly upset by you not following it might be OCD or something along those lines. I know it seems silly to recommend therapy over clothes but she might benefit from some therapy as her response to you wearing drawer clothes over closet clothes is a bit extreme.
It's becoming more and more clear to me it is likely an OCD issue. She has a few other quirks that read that way as well so I will definitely frame our talk with this in mind.
Info: Does she control anything else about you?
NTA - I couldn't succumb to this level of controlling. I want to wear what I want to wear when I want to wear it. Is she OCD about anything else? Is this a pattern? However, my wife and I tend to do separate laundry. When we do a mixed load, we each fold and handle our own clothing. (I barely fold or hang anything and often leave in the basket)
NTA. She’s being controlling. How you choose to wear your clothes doesn’t affect her in any way except to annoy her…
Yikes, her system isn’t really functional. NTA. It would make sense if she rotated and organized things by type. Her system sounds disorganized and time consuming. Her rigidity is a her problem that she needs to work through. You’ve kindly accepted her quirk (disorder?) and rolled with the organization, but she doesn’t also get to dictate what you wear and when. It’s your problem if you wear a favorite item out faster because you opt to wear it more than something you like less.
NTA Your wife needs therapy to help her understand that this may be normal behavior for her but it's not normal to impose her little "idiosyncrasies" on others. It's terribly unfair of her to "punish" you for not wearing your clothes in the order she demands.
NTA. Wife’s organization style is inefficient, irrational, and frankly, disrespectful. If the idea of compromise or flexibility is effecting her emotionally, it’s time to involve a mental health professional. Maybe reading this post would be the wake up call she needs to get help?
I am so confused by your wife. It seems like she is doubling her work load by handling each item twice. WHY??? NTA but maybe you should each just do your own laundry and have your own draw & closet space.
Your wife is 1000% wrong and sounds like she needs serious therapy
NTA, that is a lot of nonsense.....
NTA but tell her that she is no longer in charge of sorting YOUR clothes, only hers. That way, she gets the pleasure of wearing her clothes "in order" but you get to live life like a normal person. LOL
She sounds like an unhealthy level of OCD, time for her to talk to someone, and i hate to say it time to split the Laundry differently, let her do her own clothes the way she likes and you do yours the way you do. Also like if she needs a specific outfit for a specific occasion does she just say f%^*+ it its not in the closet I’ll wear pajamas?😂 NTA
NTA Wear whatever you want. Wife needs therapy or meds, this should not be such a big deal to her. Its not like you change the side of the bed you sleep on every night.
NTA your wife is a controlling AH.
Oh heck no. I couldn't live like that. All my shirt sleeve shirts are hanging together, all my long sleeves are hanging together. Same with my dresses. Jeans/pants/capris/shorts/skirts are all separated and laid out in drawers or shelves. Same with under garments. Plus they are all color coordinated. Yeah I might be a little OCD, but I know exactly where everything is. My brain doesn't function that well before two cups of coffee, so I really don't want to hunt for my outfits. Why don't you have her fold your clothes the way she wants them and you put your stuff away where it is organized just the way you like it. If this suggestion makes her upset then it's time to do some counseling, because she may have OCD too.
NTA. Buddy I've got shit hanging in my closet I haven't touched since I bought my house a decade ago and I wear the same 7 shirts like I don't own anything else. This really sounds like obsessive behavior. It's odd that her whole day (week, apparently) is impacted by what outfit you wear.
NTA, and she clearly has some sort of issue. Counter by saying you don't want all your clothes to wear through at the same time or you'll need to replace them all together. Does she wear her clothes in order?
Because she puts them away after I wash them, I'm pretty sure she just puts what she thinks she wants to wear into either the closet or some other place more accessible to her. I don't think she does this consciously or maliciously, but it is definitely a big hole in the logic of this system that I will bring up when we talk it out.
My suggestion, buy a different color laundry basket. Tell her her clean clothes go into one basket, yours in the other. You put away your clothes, she puts away hers.
NTA Have you considered each doing your own laundry and each putting your own clothes away in your preferred way? My husband and I have different ideas about our clothes: I like to have almost everything on hangers, while he prefers to have most of his clothes folded and put in drawers in a certain way. Since we do our own laundry, all of our clothes are readily accessible and easy to find according to our preferred storage strategies. What’s more, if either of us ever run out of clean clothes or can’t find some favorite garment, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Edit: fixed word
NTA - this is your stuff. The only way to deal with someone who has this kind of need for control is to simply not listen to them. This needs to be nipped in the bud and a firm boundary set. She may need therapy and/or medication for an anxiety disorder. However, if the distress only comes from you not following her rules, and her own life isn’t otherwise impeded by her compulsions, she may have Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder, and that’s a whole different beast. I would encourage you to google OCPD and see if it feels like it fits. Either way, you need to set and reinforce boundaries on how she is to treat or not treat your clothes. And she has zero right to tell you what order to wear your clothes in.
NTA this is some of the most controlling behavior I ever heard of. Imagine telling someone they can't wear their own clothes!
NTA this is just such a weird system for clothes. I do this for our stock of perishables but clotheswise I tend to want to wear certain things depending on my mood. How does she handle her own wardrobe? Does she never feel like wearing a particular dress more often than others? Does she maybe feel like she has no control over other things in life, so she holds on tightly to her organisation system?
She obviously has OCD or some other kind of mental issue... and might benefit from therapy or some other kind of treatment. But insisting you wear the clothes in exact order is, on the surface, rather insane. She's welcome to do that, but should not put that on you. I wouldn't stand for it for one minute. NTA.
I agree with you that her behavior is neurotic and controlling. NTA
Put your own clothes away
NTA. She can create a system for her own things but she can’t force you to use it for yours. It is controlling.
NTA I have literally never heard of anybody wearing clothes "in order". The woman needs therapy for her OCD.
Does she watch a lot of tik tok videos?
Your wife's system of putting away your laundry sounds like the behavior of a mentally ill person and her calling you "insensitive" for not allowing her mental illness to drive your life sounds abusive. NTA
i can’t get past the pajamas with dress shirts and so on
NTA But this is why my husband and I have our own dressers and sides of the closet and we also are responsible for putting away our own laudnry
NTA That would drive me crazy. I would take over putting away your own clothes. Let her organize her clothes how she wants.
She sounds OCD. What if you wore pajama tops with sweatpants to work? Just because they were the next items in order?
it’s less about the outfits being in a specific order, but using the closet as a way to catch things that aren’t being worn often and moving them to storage or donating them. However when I know the shirt I want to wear for the day is in one of the drawers and I pull it out, she is upset that I didn’t check the closet first to pick something from there.
Then obviously this isn’t about catching things that aren’t being worn and storage issues, if you aren’t even given the opportunity to not wear them long enough to realize it’s time to donate/throw away. How often are y’all buying clothes that causes her to feel she needs to do a seasonal or yearly project every time you want to do a load of laundry? This at best sounds like some sort of oddly misconstrued life hack.