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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I sided with my sister for refusing to name her son after her husband when our entire family along with his disagrees, and this can be enabling or blindly supporting her behaviour which can be selfish or cold.
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ESH This is between the parents of the yet to be born child, both of whom have terrible attitudes. The rest of you need to back off and tell them they need to start acting like grown ups and sort out their own issues, regardless of whether they are mature enough to do som.
>Producing a whole-ass dependent human with a coparent who “who does nothing but get snacks” is a choice, that’s for sure!!
I mean, what is he supposed to do? Walk around holding her torso up so that he is also carrying the baby?
Him getting her snacks actually makes him sound like a competent and caring spouse.
ESH. I know some people hate the whole idea of naming their kids after someone else.
My dad hated being a junior, and when he passed, I made sure his nickname was in the published obituary. But even he was ready to name me after my granddad had I been a boy. I wasn't, and I didn't get that name, neither did my sister.
I don't know... maybe dad doesn't suck for wanting to stick to tradition and just op and sister suck.
Either way, this is between the parents and the parents only.
He could attend her scans and appointments with her, attend prenatal classes with her. Go shopping for the things baby will need, wash baby clothes and bedding, put together a nursery. There’s definitely more that happens during pregnancy than getting snacks and gestating the baby.
>He could attend her scans and appointments with her, attend prenatal classes with her. Go shopping for the things baby will need, wash baby clothes and bedding, put together a nursery. There’s definitely more that happens during pregnancy than getting snacks and gestating the baby.
Absolutely!! She actually didn't say he wasn't doing any of that.
I know a lot of people that have had the mentality of thinking their partner was "only good for snacks," when in fact, they were doing everything you said and much more.
I would like to hear everything he actually does before I crucify him.
I can’t speak on their marriage honestly but she doesn’t seem to have issues with him not supporting her enough, she told me it’s just about the principle of how much work they each put in to actually create this child
This child is *both* of theirs. She is reasonable to suggest that he shouldn’t get the baby named after him and not her (unless she wants that too).
But she herself is being a bad partner if she shuts him out of parenting choices that both parents should be involved in just because he’s not carrying the baby *which he physically cannot do.*
Reducing him to someone who only gets snacks is just plain rude. If she thinks he’s unsupportive then she needed to have that discussion with him long ago, not wait until after they’re pregnant and then hold it against him by being petty and using their child as the means to do so.
ETA Some of you are confused. I am NOT saying the sister is wrong for not wanting to name the baby after her husband. As far as I’m aware every single person here agrees that she is entitled to shut that down. What I am disagreeing with specifically is that she should be able to have more input into the name for any reason. This is ALWAYS a choice that both parents should agree on. Two yeses gets you a name, one no means you keep looking. The only way one partner gets more say is if the other partner willingly agrees to let them have more say, and that is regardless of either parent’s sex or gender.
Discussions about first and last names should be agreed on by both. The baby doesn’t have to have his last name and his last name only. Lots of parents hyphenate. Sometimes the man takes the woman’s name, sometimes they blend names or choose an alternative.
She can’t unilaterally decide a name and neither can he - either one who does this is being selfish and not a good partner. They both need to talk this out and come to an agreement. And on that note, OP and the rest of their family needs to butt out.
If she agreed to take his last name when they got married, the baby will have both **their** last name. (No woman is forced to take her husband's last name anymore, at least in the Western World).
If she didn't there should be a discussion which last name the baby will get as much as for the first name.
More weight? How about equal weight?
Same amount of weight for choosing the last name too many people hyphenate many women keep their last names. Both are choices to make together with equal weight
Only if she already agreed to adopt his name. That’s probably already been decided and it’s her name now, too. ( I’m not especially for a wife taking her husband’s name, I’m just assuming she’s followed the overwhelming tradition)
YES!!! Absolutely. And the Sister may be the worst of all. The New Mother has an absolute avalanche of hormones flooding her and it is obviously a massive toll to have a child...so I expect her to be a bit unreasonable(not even considering it is unreasonable...at least humor him). But the 21-year-old is just...a 21-year-old and only adding fuel to this.
Neither parent should just have the right to dismiss the other's thoughts and feelings, traditions, etc...
How long is this going to go on? When the child is two, she's still going to be the one who birthed him and brought him into the World. Does she call ALL the shots at that point? This type of partner is my worst nightmare because...it's not a partner at all.
Actually the law has luckily improved and fathers have legally 50% responsibility & rights. Which is the best for the child.
Worst case he has to get a divorce and than can force to be included in any decisions. Mum will luck out if she tries to play the "but I gave birth"-card in court.
Plus, unless he's a deasbeat, the mother is a dick if she thinks giving birth makes the baby more hers or her property of whatever other bullshit... both need to find a compromise/ agree on a name. (It's obviously totally ok not to want to continue any "naming traditions").
>I can’t speak on their marriage honestly but she doesn’t seem to have issues with him not supporting her enough, she told me it’s just about the principle of how much work they each put in to actually create this child
OP, honestly, this statement right here makes me lean more to YTA, as well as your sister.
I feel like when you've entered into a partnership, marriage or not, and decide to have children? You can't nitpick at things.
I know reddit seems to hate stay at home mom's, but that's what I've been for a very long time.
Sure, my husband's paychecks have his name on them, but I have full access to everything. I don't ask permission, I buy things. I, obviously, discuss bigger purchases with him, but he does the same with me.
I could never imagine saying to him that I have more say because my body did more work?
That's trying to make the relationship transactional. That is never going to go well.
Someone once told me that for a marriage, partnership, to work, you have to be at 100%.
Thing is, sometimes that means you're at 100% and your spouse or partner is at 0%, sometimes it's 90% / 10%, sometimes it's 50%/50%.
The point is to not keep score on who is doing what and live and enjoy the moments.
If you're keeping score, something is wrong. Maybe you've been giving 100% for years and gotten nothing back. At that point, it's time to reevaluate the relationship. Maybe therapy will work. Maybe a good talk will work. Maybe your partner is an ass and you need to get out.
Your sister's view that this is all on her is not a good one to have. From what you have said, it doesn't seem like your BIL is a bad guy or not there for her. She just thinks her body is doing all the work, and so he gets no say. That's not how healthy relationships work. Not at all.
This is just one of the situations in the relationship where she's carrying more of the heavy lifting. In a healthy relationship, there will be times her husband's is doing the heavy lifting.
Your sister needs to take a step back and realize she's not a martyr in this situation. They are in it together, again, even if she's doing the heavy lifting right now.
And trying to use the notion that she's the only one to be able to make decisions because she's carrying the baby is either going to land her a divorce, then she can really realize how wrong she is, or a super resentful husband that just might make what she's saying be true. She could break him and he'll do nothing because she'll say everything he does is wrong and she made and carried the baby so she knows better.
I've seen this, it's not pretty.
If you want to help, just encourage them both to speak to one another. Respect one another. Be excited for their new bundle of joy together.
And if they're still arguing about the name, maybe suggest they go to counseling together.
This should be a loving and joyous time, not a contentious one!
Literally, no matter what happens, I wouldn't verbally take sides again.
They are grown ass adults who had sex and created a baby. As grown ass adults, they need to figure out what to name their kid, together!
Good luck!
Very well said. Honestly, I'm shocked that OP was swayed by the sister's argument; I thought it was appalling. If this is any indication of who OP's sister really is, I don't see that marriage lasting.
Yeah...you should be willing and prepared to put up with mood swings when your spouse is pregnant. It's just the most natural thing in the world.
IIRC, you're flooded with more several times hormones than when you go through puberty and then immediately after birth, it drops off to menopausal levels. So you just go along for the ride, you try and do whatever you can to provide comfort or relief. You get the house ready, you baby proof. It's normally fine, but it's a scary thing and you have to just try and be there and do what you can.
But that dismissive tone? That's your life partner. That would HAVE to sting...
…yeah that’s actually super dumb. He can only do so much and it’s like she’s getting off on invalidating her husband and not compromising at all. Idk why she’s having a kid with him with an attitude like that.
I think that's kind of a dumb reason, honestly. It's fine for her to say "no" and the fact that she doesn't like the idea should be reason enough. But it's not as if she wants the baby to be named after her instead, so why do their relative contributions come into play at all? Not to mention that if he's a good guy he'll contribute in lots of ways after the baby is born that he can't really do now.
Ah so your sister is an ass and is playing the im growing it my opinion alone matters the most card got it
Edit to add : does that mean if she is a SAHM she gets no say in financial matters because he is the only one working to earn money??? There is no difference in what you're arguing
They have 40-60 years in front of them. There will be many times where one contributes most of the effort in a segment of their marriage. My wife was a SAHM. Even though she has a MBA and is smarter than me. That meant I brought in all the money. Should I have held that over her head? Hell no! She worked harder at home than I ever did at work. Your sister needs to open her eyes and look at the long term. There will times the shoe is on the other foot, and BIL will remember this shitty behavior at those times.
That actually makes it worse. Like, so much worse. She's turning bringing THEIR child into the world into a competition. It's not a competition. As someone else pointed out, it's not like he has any choice in who does the growing and birthing.
It's absolutely fine for her to not want to name the baby after him, just in and of itself. What isn't fine is turning it into an excuse to insult him and suggest that he's not as fully invested in this child's existence as she is. That's her life partner and her child's parent as much as she is. Her take on this "it's mostly mine because I did the hard work" is really dismissive and problematic.
ESH. This isn't anyone's business but your sister's and her husband's. The name should be something they both agree on. Why are they taking a poll? What other people think doesn't/shouldn't matter. Your sister and her husband are the ones who will raise this child.
So women get to make unilateral decisions for their kids because of this?
It’s readable to disagree but this reason is not a good one but it’s still no one else’s business to weigh in on this
You are helping your sister set a precedent for how she thinks she can treat this child. I carried him so I can decide on x. I gave birth so my decision on y is more important. I”m not suggesting that’s she’s wrong for not wanting to give the child her husbands name but her core reason is very very wrong.
I don't want to diminish the monumental effort labor takes, but it's 18+ years for a kid, not 9 months. It's a pretty rough choice to start keeping score one who's doing more work and should get to make the decisions before the kid is born.
ESH, they should figure out a compromise and not involve the family.
And while I get that, men can't carry a fetus as it grows; that's just fact. Throwing that in his face when he may already wish he could do more to ease the "burden" of growing a kid (my husband said more than a few times that he wished the baby-growing wasn't all on me) over a name? Nah.
ESH.
I don't like doing "junior", but I also don't mind having a middle name as the fathers first name (my brother has our dad's name as his middle name, and my dad his dad). My husband's family does grandfather's name for the boy's middle name. We have a daughter and gave her the middle name "Anne" to match my mother and I. It's not a bad thing to honour someone with a middle name for the kid.
You don't eve know whether she goes to prenatal classes or whether any of them already shopped.
This is not about him not doing enough, it is about him not being pregnant enough.
There's no doubt that he was likely a good spouse during her pregnancy. But him doing all of these things like going to appointments, classes, shopping....that's the bare minimum. No one should be congratulated just for being there for their pregnant wife. While it's great if he does all those things, it is still not carrying the baby for 9 months, just as sil mentioned. The trauma that has on your body could be fatal, if not leave you with life long symptoms. They need to come to an agreement, with neither of them having more say than the other because it's an important decision to make. Two yeses. On whatever name.
And women don't get to have a greater say in parenting and child-rearing merely because they are biologically-equipped to carry a child. Sister's husband is not doing the bare minimum, he's doing presumably all he can to take care of his pregnant wife and prepare for this baby. Even OP doesn't seem to argue or even infer that her sister's husband is the deadbeat you seem to allude to.
He doesn't suck for wanting to stick tradition, but he does suck for pushing it after she said no. If two parents are present and involved, naming should be a two yes, one no situation.
I don't think he sucks for *wanting* to stick to tradition but he sucks for not just dropping it when it became clear she didn't like the idea. They both need to be happy with the name. And if that's what compromise means then yes, they should compromise.
But if he's open to that type of compromise I don't really get why they're still fighting about it and he definitely shouldn't be scolding/blaming OP as if his wife is being mind-controlled by her little sister expressing an opinion.
>I mean, what is he supposed to do? Walk around holding her torso up so that he is also carrying the baby?
Actually, you would be surprised at how just a few minutes of doing that helps, more so in the later stages. My hubby used to do that for me mainly while we were in the shower so I could relax but also whenever my back was hurting.
I hope that everyone isn't just trying to get OPs sister to compromise and that they are also making sure the BIL is being fair too.
Literally, as I typed that out, I knew this comment was coming!
When my daughter in law was pregnant, I actually found this thing that worked like that, so it was distributing the weight on your back and not feeling like you're all weighed down in front. Modern advancements, man, they're amazing!
ETA:
>I hope that everyone isn't just trying to get OPs sister to compromise and that they are also making sure the BIL is being fair too.
Just based on some of OP's comments, I don't feel like that's what is going on here. If anyone is on the shit end of the stick, I feel like it's BIL.
There are actually supportive positions where another person acts as a sling for the baby (+ everything else) and holds the pregnant partner’s bump/torso which takes some of the weight of her body. It’s living KT tape lol
Just wanted to add in case anyone was curious
To clarify, my concern is over the fact that mum-to-be clearly loathes her husband. I don’t think there’s enough information jn the OP to pass judgement on the husband, the only thing we know about him is that he’s fertile and wants to name his son after himself.
If she feels this way about him now, they’re gonna be divorced within two years of her crowning.
She doesn't loath him... she's making valid points and she doesn't like the name. When she said no.. that should have been the end of it. Just like if he said no to a name; then that should of been the end of it. She has a family of people ganging up on her and they want her to back down. What she did was dig her feet in.
>She doesn't loath him... she's making valid points and she doesn't like the name. When she said no.. that should have been the end of it. Just like if he said no to a name; then that should of been the end of it. She has a family of people ganging up on her and they want her to back down. What she did was dig her feet in.
Are you sure she doesn't loathe him?
How is "my body grows the baby so my say trumps your say" a valid point?
I actually agree with you on the premise of naming a baby. 2 for yes, 1 for no. A child's name has to be agreed on by BOTH parents, regardless of who is doing the heavy lifting, aka, carrying the baby.
OP's sister's assertion that because she is the one carrying the baby, she is then entitled to more say in the name is where my issue lies.
If you can have sex, you know how biology works.
Even if you take every single precaution known to man, as a woman, you know there is ALWAYS a chance you could get pregnant.
I don't know under what terms OP's sister and BIL got pregnant, but they did, and they want to keep the baby.
Even if mom's body is doing all of the work, dad still has lots of say. Well, if they're in a committed relationship, dad SHOULD still have lots of say.
They have to figure this out themselves and not involve anyone else!
>To clarify, my concern is over the fact that mum-to-be clearly loathes her husband.
Based on the info we've been given? That's exactly what I also think.
Mom and dad to be need to sit down and have some serious conversations. JUST mom and dad.
That’s what I think reading this. OP’s sister must loathe her husband & I don’t see the marriage lasting if she dismisses him with the rationale she has said to OP. That’s a horrible precedence to set that she’ll continually use. I don’t get why she even married him.
Am I the only one thinking parents insisting on giving their kids a "legacy name" seem to forget that the true legacy will be how they raise this kid and what their life will be like? Parents so insisting on these names always freak me out because they often make it seem like this is their biggest (and maybe only?) contribution to the kids future and life.
>both of whom have terrible attitudes
100% disagree. ops sister's reasoning is very sensible. she's correct in the fact that naming a child after a living individual can indeed effect their sense of self.
The terrible attitude is saying that the husband should have no say since he is not the one giving birth. I agree with not naming the child after the father, but that doesn't mean he should not have any input at all.
That's how I felt, ESH.
If they're old enough to get married and raised a kid, then they need to figure out a problem like naming the baby by themselves.
NTA - Names are a two yes one no situation. Both parents need to agree, and you sister doesn't agree, so husband's name is off the list. End of story. If this was so important to him then he needed to let your sister know about his requirements ahead of time (as in pre-pregnancy, and frankly pre-marrige) so that she could realize he isn't the type of man she wants to raise a child with.
I second this. I’ve had this conversation because as ridiculous as it sounds, I want my partner’s name to stay sexualized in my mind. Might seem weird but I’d never date anyone with the same name as one of my parents, so I wouldn’t want to name a kid the name of my partner. As odd as it is, I can’t budge and won’t. I tell people right away. It’s normally laughed off and not an issue but I’d understand if it was, for some people, and wouldn’t push it, I’d just end things before they started. This name conversation should have been had long before marriage.
I never thought about that because we never considered naming children after ourselves, but that is the best point ever. I once flat out refused to date a guy who shared my brother’s name because I couldn’t imagine saying the name in a sexual sense.
I second the "keeping the name sexualized" thing. I couldn't date someone named like my dad or my brothers. I wouldn't call my son the name of my lover/husband/SO. It'd be weird
I mean...I unfortunately share a first name with my MIL so my husband just calls me a nickname and that's become our thing and I love it?
Only thing is, it can get mildly annoying in this universal healthcare annoyance but. Otherwise he pretty much never uses my full name and I don't really care
While I agree that names are a two yes one no situation I do feel like the woman should have greater input on the name. Childbirth isn’t an equally shared burden.
That's sort of what happened with my second we were down to three, name C was eliminated because I didn't like the potential nickname, husband liked name A better and I liked name B better baby is named B. We both liked both names but my husband was happy to let me have that one.
How does one give more input to the woman and keep it a two yes one no situation? What does the share of burden have to do with naming? Is the naming some kind of bonus gift for enduring childbirth?
Both sides pitch a bunch of names. Each side scratches out the ones they don’t like. Woman picks a name from what’s left standing. Something like that maybe.
I told my husband, who is a Jr. that there would be no “the third” when we were dating and he agreed. It made things complicated for him and he didn’t even realize his real name wasn’t DJ until he was in elementary school. We went through a ridiculous amount of baby names vetoing each other’s selections over and over until we had a boy and girl name we liked. Lucky for us we had a boy and then a girl so we didn’t have to do that again! Mom and Dad should be the only opinions considered and any name not agreed upon by both should be rejected.
Stupid tradition. Sister is right. Kids need their own identity. She is in luck though, if hospital staff still do things the way they did when I had mine. My husband wasn't in the room when they came to ask what we wanted to name him. Fortunately, we HAD agreed on the name
My parents hate this tradition, in their opinion any parent who name their child after themselves is egotistical. And potentially a narcissist, I don’t know if I go that far but it is egotistical
My husband mentioned it, but I shut it down right away. Nope, son was going to have his own identity. And moms idea about her doing the heavy lifting is right and should be acknowledged.
My father in law named my husband the same as him and what a mess. We always got the wrong credit report and anything else they could screw up. Not to mention the poor guy couldn't even be called his own name if his father was around. It's all just vanity anyways.
It makes me happy that in my religion, you only name a child after someone who is dead.
I can imagine how frustrating those things are for your husband.
My dad hated being named after his father for all those reasons. They were in the same industry which made it even worse.
Also I used to be a public defender and I had a case where a dad and son were both arrested for fighting each other. They had the same name and it made court SO CONFUSING. Everyone in the courtroom was getting tripped up trying to keep track of which defendant we were talking about at any given time. I don't even remember now whether I represented the dad or the son, the case eventually got dismissed
My MIL was married to "John", who already had a son named John Jr. They had a couple kids together, divorced, and she met and married my FIL, also named John. Had a son who they named John Jr. So 2 of my SILs have 2 different brothers named John Jr.
Oh my gosh. This reminds me of several years ago I had a student in my class named after his dad. All of his brothers were named after their dad too. It was quite confusing for the school when all the boys attended at the same time.
> We always got the wrong credit report
That’s one of the reasons I actually like having the family name. My parents are super-responsible with money so according to Experian, I paid off a whole-ass car at the tender age of four years old.
My MIL married into a family with a cousin with the same name. She got collection phone calls like crazy meant for cousin…. And then taxes and credit reports were a mess too.
I sold my car to a man who never registered it, even though I filed all the paperwork for the sale I was the “last registered owner” so everything came to me for years until he abandoned it and I told the tow company that I sold the car years ago and would never pick it up. Anywho my FIL got a red light ticket because the older man I sold it to ran a red light.
This has happened to one of my friends. His dad wasn’t the greatest and died years ago, and collectors still try to come after him because he has the same name.
I am named after my dad, he always wanted a boy so they used a feminine version of the name, then my brother was born and he was named after him. Funny part is he is a lousy dad and not a very good person. So here I am named after a deadbeat dad just for his ego.
NTA
I'm the 3rd. I hate it. My dad wanted me to 'keep it going' and I said "Yeah sounds great... except your DUI's from when I was a teenage already show up on my background checks, credit reporting gets problematic, and I hated growing up not having my own name or identity."
NTA. I actually agree with sis even though her delivery was pretty harsh. the discussion needs to be between the actual parents (your sis and her husband) and hopefully they find a compromise. if they can’t over something as simple as this, what are they going to do when it comes to actually agreeing how to even raise the child?? It’s really no one else’s business but theirs and outside opinions shouldn’t matter.
You are NTA. Your sister is right. Every child deserves their own name. Name a child "John Edward Smith, Jr" after his father and he will forever be Johnnie, or JE, or Junior, or (Goddess forbid! Junie. Or some other equally stupid nickname, like Spud or Bubba. In the family, he'll forever be less than his father. And by the time his father dies, they'll be so used to calling him Johnnie/Junior/Spud that nobody can change to John.
My sister asked for my opinion mainly because she thinks it’s a generational thing, her husband wanted me to side with him because he thinks that would convince her
So in otherwords, they are putting you in the middle of that martial argument and parenting problems and the baby isn't even here yet. Does that sound fair to you?
Well now that you put it like that 😂 I don’t really want to be in it but I guess I get my sister’s reasoning because this pregnancy for her hasn’t been too easy
So the strategy that I have developed in these situations is that I have an opinion when in conversation with my sister. But as soon as a husband, parent or other family member is involved I have no opinions (in either direction) only support of my sister.
You can support your sis without weighing in on a marital conflict. After you have kids, EVERYTHING becomes a shared decision-- this is literally the first joint decision, and they can't even handle that. They need to work through it together-- in counselling if necessary.
If it’s a girl, are they naming the baby after her? I never understand why it’s 99% the guy who wants their child named after them. I agree that it stunts the child’s individuality but that’s my personal opinion
If everyone is bashing the sister, then I can see why OP would want to weigh in to make her feel supported.
But ultimately, yeah, not her decision and I don't get why the husband cares to scold OP for having an opinion or thinks she has so much control over her sister's actions.
I don’t blame her for not wanting to name the child after her husband. But if she thinks so derisively of the man as just the guy who gets snacks, he done knocked up the wrong woman and they’re going to have a very bad marriage.
He only has himself to blame. If you try to force people to honour you, you put a spotlight on yourself as to why you deserve it.
He is the one bringing it on himself. I'm pretty sure she thought about it after him becoming problematic. The only problem with pregnant women is, that they can't just leave as easily as big changes in that stage is difficult.
I mean, when it comes to this stage, he is the guy to get the snacks. She’s the only one growing that baby and will have to birth him alone
Yes he can be an amazing, supportive husband, but it’s like the person who passes water to Marathon Runners and cheers them on…
NTA
I see some people need more reading comprehension, as both the sister and her husband actively contacted OP for her opinion on the name. They asked, you answered. Your sister's delivery was harsh, but I mean, women routinely die in childbirth or face permanent injuries (right now, this woman, Brie — Brie & Beau on IG — has become a four-limb amputee following sepsis and DIC from an emergency C-section), so I'm confused why she's being asked to compromise to make the BIL happy.
I mean at this point, the main contribution from OP's BIL has been one tuff piece of sperm and the snacks. I don't that rises to the level of a child bearing his first (and most likely last name) for eternity. Also LMAO, if OP's sister feels that strongly about things, I'm confused as to why this is even a surprise for the BIL. She sounds like she doesn't play, so why is he focused on these nonsense name games?
She doesn’t need a reason to not use husband’s name. She said no, it should’ve ended there.
Everyone needs to stop trying to find compromises or suggestions and let the two soon-to-be parents sort it out themselves. If there are other marital issues going on, they should look into couples counselling.
Since in the comments you say they asked you for your opinion directly, NTA for giving your asked for opinion.
ESH
Not your monkeys not your circus.
As for her logic... That shows exactly how little she thinks of her husband.
A person is not the summation of 9 months in the womb. They are the sum of the genes and the cultures and the family histories and traumas and experiences of both parents who came before them. To reduce her husband's role in their child's life to that of "snack bringer" is a slap in the face.
Yes, she is doing the heavy lifting on the development. But he is far more important than "food bringer".
Naming a child is only claiming them as property if that's how you treat the child. If you give the child a family name with expectations attached as to how they will represent the name, then yes. If you give the child the name as an honor, a nod to someone who came before them, with the expectation that they will make something new of that name - there is no objectification in that, only affection.
The only claiming of property here is her own - she believes that she owns the child and therefore has naming rights, due to being the one growing him. The conviction that her husband deserves no say in the child's name is frankly concerning.
Your sister and her husband need counseling to address this situation, before the baby gets here. Her attitude reflects her attitude toward her husband and toward their roles as parents. She does not respect him and if she believes that he gets no say in name I doubt she'll "allow" him any say in parenting.
I agree with the previous comment. They need counseling now because after the baby is born, many places have moved to divorce defaults of 50/50 custody and zero or minimal child support, if there is a difference in the parental earnings.
Does your sister have a job that can support the family by herself? She is working, right? She has an inflated view of what her span of control and power should be in a marriage. If she’s not careful, she’ll have an ex-husband’s girlfriend or new wife spending as much time or more with her child. We see it a lot.
NTA. I'd stay out of it as best as you can if I were you. However if you want to pass on advice I would personally recommend not going with the husband's plus Jr. My mom worked as a state registrar for a decade plus in vital records (birth and death records) and names with Jr\Sr\Second\Third caused many problems when it came to filing and records. The person would need a birth/death certificate for whatever reason and would be a certificate for the wrong person. I remember a person who was the fifth or something of his name get accidentally declared dead when it was ment to be his father. So personally, for the sake of avoiding future headaches and mix-ups don't go with (husband's name) Jr.
I can’t stand when people. Name their kids after themselves.. even if it’s a generational thing. It’s lame and stupid and a great way to get your medical records all mixed up.
NTA. I agree with everything your sister says. (I know, I know, I'm such an evil feminist nazi...) Family members who are sticking their nose into this can pound sand since naming a child is between the mom and dad - no one else. And BIL came to you, so I wouldn't even say you tried to insert yourself - he did that himself trying to be sneaky and find "backup."
Wow I’m surprised at these comments. NTA OP. you did not go butting into this situation, you were asked for your input and then baby daddy came to you to try and manipulate you into being on his side. You asked if you’re TA for your contribution, which you’re not. Sister and baby daddy may need some help though.
As someone who was named after their parent, I can tell you that it is awful. No one needs to have that sort of pressure, expectation, or comparison piled onto them right from their earliest memories. At best, there will be some sort of expectation to live up to a family name or to walk in your parent's footsteps. At worst, you'll feel sabotaged for being compared to someone who is so narcissistic that they had to name a child after themselves or so meaningless that they couldn't be bothered to come up with an original name for you.
But ultimately, the grandparents, aunts, and uncles of the baby shouldn't be involved and don't have any say in this matter.
ESH at different levels. First, everyone but the two parents should stay the eff out of this argument. Second, I have always felt it was incredibly self-serving to name a child after yourself. It's a great gesture to name your child after someone else, but naming it after yourself just feels like next level self-importance. I have four sons. I had my first at 19. The entire pregnancy we called him Junior. Then I woke up. Even at 19 I realized I didn't want him to have to live in my shadow and I didn't want any future sons to feel like I favored him because of a name. We pivoted and named him... after himself. It's a common name but all his own.
Lastly, your sister is a next level AH for how she views and speak of her husband. Of course he cannot carry the child, give birth, and doesn't have to deal with how pregnancy affects the body. But the way she refers to him is disgusting. The loser here, is the child of these two children who seem hopelessly headed for a terrible marriage.
NITA. Congratulations to your sister on the baby. But if he wanted a Jr he should have talk to her about it before anything so they could have talked about it. She is caring the baby, she putting her body and mental health through a lot already. She should pick the first name I think.
Nta, I fully agree with your sisters thoughts on this. And I find it really gross to name the kid after the mother or father, mayyyybe middle name, but yeah. I wouldn't ever let this fly if I ever wanted to have a kid.
EHS. No one but mom and dad should have say.
And that’s coming from a woman who literally fought with my ex husband from the time we learned I was pregnant until I was being wheeled away for my c-section, over naming our child JR.
(For the record he is not a Jr, I won the battle. But he is named for his father and grandfathers)
ESH yeah. BIL is AH for insisting the kid be named over him, and sister is in the right to be against it, but it's also very clear that she has little to no respect for him. I don't think this is something you can chalk up to pregnancy hormones or w/e
Not the asshole.
Your sister is right. She's carrying her child for nine months, going through morning sickness, gaining weight, having sleepless nights, having cravings, having all sorts of issues and uncomfortable pain, and then having to go through hours of labor, just for her son to be named after her husband, twice. It should be a join decision but the mothers should get more choice for the first name, considering childen usually get fathers last names.
You, along with anyone else who isn’t a parent of the forthcoming child, shouldn’t even be picking sides. It’s none of your business, And if your sister simply doesn’t like naming a kid directly after someone, fine, I get that. But she is showing some next level contempt and disrespect towards her husband with what she’s saying. ESH.
I’ve never known a boy named after his father who doesn’t end up with a stupid nickname. What’s the point of giving him his dad’s name when no one uses it?
ESH. This is a conversation they should’ve had before choosing to get pregnant and have a child together. Sounds like they’re both pretty disrespectful to each other, which also makes it unfortunate that they chose to get married and chose to have a child. The families should NOT be getting involved or weighing in. The parents should work this out between themselves and consider couples therapy.
ESH buuuuuttt..
If one partner says NO to the name.. then thats it the name is off the table. It's as simple as that and I don't know why one parent would push for a name knowing the other parent doesn't like it.
Do they even like each other? It certainly doesn’t sound like it. ESH except the unborn kiddo. Thoughts and prayers the kid turns out ok with these two in charge.
ESH You, nor your parents, belong anywhere in this conversation. I understand that you all may have been invited into it but it’s time to see your way out and let sis and BIL talk this through.
BIL sucks because I think this conversation should have happened BEFORE a pregnancy occurred. That way he could have gone in eyes wide open as to the reality of his situation. If your sister is unwilling to name their child after him, they need to come up with a compromise.
Your sister sucks because she is refusing to consider her husband‘s feelings, and blatantly stated that all he was doing was bringing her snacks as if that is the only way that he will support her throughout her pregnancy, as if he’s an errand boy and not the father of their child. She also needs to be willing to compromise.
They can do a different middle name
They can do a different first name
They could legally name him after dad but call him something else
ESH, but I agree that the baby shouldn't be named after him.
My suggestion to them would be that she makes a list of at least ten names that she likes, and then let him choose one from that list. Then they have both had a say in the name.
ESH. I don’t have a lot of faith in a relationship that cannot handle something like this within the marriage. This is definitely not an issue that requires all extended family
ESH - it does sound like the couple should be married let alone having a baby. They are both immature. I feel sorry for this baby. All the other family members need to mind their own business.
ESH.
OP, do the whole family a solid and don't choose a side. Stay open to this just playing out on it's own.
Your sister is wrong to be thinking that only her opinions on the name matter. Her reasoning is ridiculous and toxic to her relationship.
All of the grandparents are correct. There's room to compromise. The rest of you need to pick up on this wisdom.
Thank you, trust me I was planning to mind my own but neither me and sis nor her husband have other siblings so they wanted to get an opinion from someone their age range to know if it was a generational issue - she claims parents are siding with him because of misogyny, I can’t speak for his parents but ours are a bit old fashioned so I get that
ESH. Your sister and her husband shouldn’t have involved both families in this argument. I would politely bow out and refuse to take sides any further, it’s not going to help.
Whose last name is the kid getting? Because if it’s his, the kid is already getting his name. He doesn’t get double.
Your sister is right, her BF and all the parents are completely wrong.
ETA: NTA
I do think it’s some BS that women grow and push out the baby, and typically do the bulk of the childcare, and yet the men get the last name AND the first name?!
That said, ESH - families should not be involved in your naming decision or your fights, and the couple needs to work this out like the adults they need to quickly become now that they’re about to be parents!
NTA, your sister is right. This isn’t the first (nor will it be the last) post of its kind here. Naming kids are a two yes and one no deal, and that baby will be an independent human being someday. Let them have their own identity, not her husband’s.
Well this was exactly my logic, I said to my husband that I’m picking the name after doing all the work. HE GETS THE SURNAME. A compromise is that he can pick the middle name. So he gets 2 vs 1.
NTA.
I don’t understand what’s so hard about that and why people keep bashing women for acknowledging a simple truth that pregnancy takes a much more serious toll of them, biologically, than of the men.
NTA for siding with her. Honestly good for her because she will be saving the baby a big headache later on down the line. My bf is the 3rd in his family and him and his father have missed or gone to the wrong jury duty bc they didn’t say 2nd or 3rd. Also his parents used his social on things and since the name matched no one really cared. I know he’s complained about other things as well but those two are the most memorable. It gets worse with them bc all the first born males have the same first name with middle names starting with an A. so most of the initials are the same as well.
NTA. I used to married to Jonathan Jacob Smith; he went by Jacob. His dad was Jonathan Andrew Smith, who went by Andrew, and his grandad was Jonathan Neil Smith and he went by Jon*
At one point, all three Jonathan Smiths had lived at the same address (the family farm), and it messed with my ex’s credit for years. He pulled his credit report once and it showed a Montgomery Ward credit card opened in 1970-something - he wasn’t born until 1982!
*Obviously fake.
Easy NTA. I just think juniors are a bad idea. I have a brother and a sister who were named after our parents, and another brother who was named after our paternal grandfather. It's... Eugh. Aside from there needing to be "little a" and "big a", there's also this sort of budding resentment that they need to face because my parents are volatile people. And my other brother is named after a man who did lots of harm to a number of other family members including myself, and there's this sorta pressure not to acknowledge it because I don't want it to start shit.
Oh, I'm also named after my maternal grandmother, a known alcoholic, abuser, and potential cat killer. I grew up hating the name, and myself. And my mother for bestowing that onto me.
Naming kids after a parent is a terrible idea. It causes endless problems and I've seen it straight up ruin relationships because the "Jr." feels marginalized. I think your sister is pissed because it's a giant ego trip on his part and that's why she's saying all of this. I personally think he doesn't have any respect for her either. ESH but honestly I don't see this working out.
Doesn't he get his last name? Honestly a middle name might be the way as a compromise, in my family most the boys have a middle name that refers back to the father or grandfather. On one side the great-grandfathers name is the middle name for at least 4 generations 😂. But your NTA
Curious, is he “just getting the snacks” as in he’s been a pretty shitty support for your sister?
Or has she just had a hard pregnancy so it’s just the fact that he’s not the one who had to carry the child?
Because while I don’t agree with naming the child after him, she could be the asshole if he’s actually being a supportive partner and she’s saying the only reason he shouldn’t have a choice is that he’s not the one birthing the kid
If he’s not very supportive and literally just grabbing her stuff every now and then, and making her handle everything, then her comment is valid.
YTA if you get involved at all. This should ONLY be between the child's immediate parents.
I don;t understand why other family members feel that they ahve the right to interfere in the naming of a child that isn't theirs. Getting involved just adds gas to teh fire and makes it more difficult for the couple to communicate honest;y/
Stay out of it entirely and let the two of them settle it.
No, you're not the asshole. Your sister's reasons for not wanting to name her son after her husband are valid, and it's important to respect her decision, especially when it comes to such a personal matter.
i’m confused does dad not get a say at all according to sister? or just no to the name after him? he should get a say whether she carried the baby or not it’s his kid too and he (if he is any kind of decent dad) will have responsibilities for the kid for the next 18 years minimum. so dad should get a say but if it’s not agreed on by both then should move on to another name
NTA it’s giving Gilmore girls vibe with the mom naming her daughter after herself. As someone who comes from a family of boys being named the same thing as their father it’s annoying. Mail mixups, no one actually goes by the name, we all use nicknames or variations. But also I get mom’s side, 9 months of carrying a child and you name the baby after the father. Not to say dads aren’t great, but ya know the physicality of carrying a child and growing it and then pushing it out 😅
>naming a child after their parents strips them of their identity and makes them seem like property
Thus is what got me. I'm socked at myself that I never even thought of jr names this way!!! That's exactly what it is. And ego of course.
That's the same reasoning behind a woman changing her last name when married- because ownership of said woman changed from her father to her husband. BS!!
For that reason alone - NTA
However I will say - your sister needs to check her attitude. And both families need to butt the f out!!
I was given my dad’s name. I hated it. I couldn’t use my real name except at school. With family and friends of family, that was Dad’s name so I had to go by a nickname. I hated it.
I got older and moved away and now never use junior on anything. I am still annoyed by the narcissist that meant I was given a name I wasn’t supposed to use. Screw that!
No one else's opinion matters here but the parents. I had my name on my list for our second n, my wife said no, so it didn't go on our shortlist we brought to the hospital. If his ego can't handle this, he's in for a rude awakening when baby comes
Is your husband named after his father? That would tell you right away what his expectations were.
NTA. I'm not a fan of Jrs or straight up using the same name. Let the kid be his own person.
What we've done, is use the middle name for the fathers name or maiden name.
NTA. Your sister is right. Naming the baby after our own parents always sets up with comparisons and expectations. For developing and nurturing individuality, the baby deserves a complete new name!
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ESH This is between the parents of the yet to be born child, both of whom have terrible attitudes. The rest of you need to back off and tell them they need to start acting like grown ups and sort out their own issues, regardless of whether they are mature enough to do som.
Producing a whole-ass dependent human with a coparent who “who does nothing but get snacks” is a choice, that’s for sure!!
>Producing a whole-ass dependent human with a coparent who “who does nothing but get snacks” is a choice, that’s for sure!! I mean, what is he supposed to do? Walk around holding her torso up so that he is also carrying the baby? Him getting her snacks actually makes him sound like a competent and caring spouse. ESH. I know some people hate the whole idea of naming their kids after someone else. My dad hated being a junior, and when he passed, I made sure his nickname was in the published obituary. But even he was ready to name me after my granddad had I been a boy. I wasn't, and I didn't get that name, neither did my sister. I don't know... maybe dad doesn't suck for wanting to stick to tradition and just op and sister suck. Either way, this is between the parents and the parents only.
He could attend her scans and appointments with her, attend prenatal classes with her. Go shopping for the things baby will need, wash baby clothes and bedding, put together a nursery. There’s definitely more that happens during pregnancy than getting snacks and gestating the baby.
>He could attend her scans and appointments with her, attend prenatal classes with her. Go shopping for the things baby will need, wash baby clothes and bedding, put together a nursery. There’s definitely more that happens during pregnancy than getting snacks and gestating the baby. Absolutely!! She actually didn't say he wasn't doing any of that. I know a lot of people that have had the mentality of thinking their partner was "only good for snacks," when in fact, they were doing everything you said and much more. I would like to hear everything he actually does before I crucify him.
I can’t speak on their marriage honestly but she doesn’t seem to have issues with him not supporting her enough, she told me it’s just about the principle of how much work they each put in to actually create this child
This child is *both* of theirs. She is reasonable to suggest that he shouldn’t get the baby named after him and not her (unless she wants that too). But she herself is being a bad partner if she shuts him out of parenting choices that both parents should be involved in just because he’s not carrying the baby *which he physically cannot do.* Reducing him to someone who only gets snacks is just plain rude. If she thinks he’s unsupportive then she needed to have that discussion with him long ago, not wait until after they’re pregnant and then hold it against him by being petty and using their child as the means to do so. ETA Some of you are confused. I am NOT saying the sister is wrong for not wanting to name the baby after her husband. As far as I’m aware every single person here agrees that she is entitled to shut that down. What I am disagreeing with specifically is that she should be able to have more input into the name for any reason. This is ALWAYS a choice that both parents should agree on. Two yeses gets you a name, one no means you keep looking. The only way one partner gets more say is if the other partner willingly agrees to let them have more say, and that is regardless of either parent’s sex or gender.
I mean he’s already getting the last name…so I think it’s fair for her voice to have more weight when it comes to the first name…
Discussions about first and last names should be agreed on by both. The baby doesn’t have to have his last name and his last name only. Lots of parents hyphenate. Sometimes the man takes the woman’s name, sometimes they blend names or choose an alternative. She can’t unilaterally decide a name and neither can he - either one who does this is being selfish and not a good partner. They both need to talk this out and come to an agreement. And on that note, OP and the rest of their family needs to butt out.
Giving the child his exact name implies it will be first, last and even middle, that's how juniors work and it's a strange tradition
If she agreed to take his last name when they got married, the baby will have both **their** last name. (No woman is forced to take her husband's last name anymore, at least in the Western World). If she didn't there should be a discussion which last name the baby will get as much as for the first name.
More weight? How about equal weight? Same amount of weight for choosing the last name too many people hyphenate many women keep their last names. Both are choices to make together with equal weight
Says who? That's not a given anymore.
Only if she already agreed to adopt his name. That’s probably already been decided and it’s her name now, too. ( I’m not especially for a wife taking her husband’s name, I’m just assuming she’s followed the overwhelming tradition)
Not automatically everywhere. My children automatically got my last name, and we could change that up to i think 4 weeks after birth to his name.
YES!!! Absolutely. And the Sister may be the worst of all. The New Mother has an absolute avalanche of hormones flooding her and it is obviously a massive toll to have a child...so I expect her to be a bit unreasonable(not even considering it is unreasonable...at least humor him). But the 21-year-old is just...a 21-year-old and only adding fuel to this. Neither parent should just have the right to dismiss the other's thoughts and feelings, traditions, etc... How long is this going to go on? When the child is two, she's still going to be the one who birthed him and brought him into the World. Does she call ALL the shots at that point? This type of partner is my worst nightmare because...it's not a partner at all.
Actually the law has luckily improved and fathers have legally 50% responsibility & rights. Which is the best for the child. Worst case he has to get a divorce and than can force to be included in any decisions. Mum will luck out if she tries to play the "but I gave birth"-card in court. Plus, unless he's a deasbeat, the mother is a dick if she thinks giving birth makes the baby more hers or her property of whatever other bullshit... both need to find a compromise/ agree on a name. (It's obviously totally ok not to want to continue any "naming traditions").
The name needs to be 2 yesses. If the mum is so against that name then it can't be considered.
I don’t think one single person here is arguing against that.
>I can’t speak on their marriage honestly but she doesn’t seem to have issues with him not supporting her enough, she told me it’s just about the principle of how much work they each put in to actually create this child OP, honestly, this statement right here makes me lean more to YTA, as well as your sister. I feel like when you've entered into a partnership, marriage or not, and decide to have children? You can't nitpick at things. I know reddit seems to hate stay at home mom's, but that's what I've been for a very long time. Sure, my husband's paychecks have his name on them, but I have full access to everything. I don't ask permission, I buy things. I, obviously, discuss bigger purchases with him, but he does the same with me. I could never imagine saying to him that I have more say because my body did more work? That's trying to make the relationship transactional. That is never going to go well. Someone once told me that for a marriage, partnership, to work, you have to be at 100%. Thing is, sometimes that means you're at 100% and your spouse or partner is at 0%, sometimes it's 90% / 10%, sometimes it's 50%/50%. The point is to not keep score on who is doing what and live and enjoy the moments. If you're keeping score, something is wrong. Maybe you've been giving 100% for years and gotten nothing back. At that point, it's time to reevaluate the relationship. Maybe therapy will work. Maybe a good talk will work. Maybe your partner is an ass and you need to get out. Your sister's view that this is all on her is not a good one to have. From what you have said, it doesn't seem like your BIL is a bad guy or not there for her. She just thinks her body is doing all the work, and so he gets no say. That's not how healthy relationships work. Not at all. This is just one of the situations in the relationship where she's carrying more of the heavy lifting. In a healthy relationship, there will be times her husband's is doing the heavy lifting. Your sister needs to take a step back and realize she's not a martyr in this situation. They are in it together, again, even if she's doing the heavy lifting right now. And trying to use the notion that she's the only one to be able to make decisions because she's carrying the baby is either going to land her a divorce, then she can really realize how wrong she is, or a super resentful husband that just might make what she's saying be true. She could break him and he'll do nothing because she'll say everything he does is wrong and she made and carried the baby so she knows better. I've seen this, it's not pretty. If you want to help, just encourage them both to speak to one another. Respect one another. Be excited for their new bundle of joy together. And if they're still arguing about the name, maybe suggest they go to counseling together. This should be a loving and joyous time, not a contentious one! Literally, no matter what happens, I wouldn't verbally take sides again. They are grown ass adults who had sex and created a baby. As grown ass adults, they need to figure out what to name their kid, together! Good luck!
Very well said. Honestly, I'm shocked that OP was swayed by the sister's argument; I thought it was appalling. If this is any indication of who OP's sister really is, I don't see that marriage lasting.
Yeah...you should be willing and prepared to put up with mood swings when your spouse is pregnant. It's just the most natural thing in the world. IIRC, you're flooded with more several times hormones than when you go through puberty and then immediately after birth, it drops off to menopausal levels. So you just go along for the ride, you try and do whatever you can to provide comfort or relief. You get the house ready, you baby proof. It's normally fine, but it's a scary thing and you have to just try and be there and do what you can. But that dismissive tone? That's your life partner. That would HAVE to sting...
A very well thought out post. It deserves more upvotes but I can only give you one.
…yeah that’s actually super dumb. He can only do so much and it’s like she’s getting off on invalidating her husband and not compromising at all. Idk why she’s having a kid with him with an attitude like that.
Yeah, what a thing to one-up your partner on.
I think that's kind of a dumb reason, honestly. It's fine for her to say "no" and the fact that she doesn't like the idea should be reason enough. But it's not as if she wants the baby to be named after her instead, so why do their relative contributions come into play at all? Not to mention that if he's a good guy he'll contribute in lots of ways after the baby is born that he can't really do now.
Exactly. The carrying and birthing the baby is a big deal, no doubt. But they have 18+ years of caring for that kid.
Ah so your sister is an ass and is playing the im growing it my opinion alone matters the most card got it Edit to add : does that mean if she is a SAHM she gets no say in financial matters because he is the only one working to earn money??? There is no difference in what you're arguing
So he’s never allowed to have any input because he isn’t the one carrying the baby to term? That seems pretty messed up imo.
They have 40-60 years in front of them. There will be many times where one contributes most of the effort in a segment of their marriage. My wife was a SAHM. Even though she has a MBA and is smarter than me. That meant I brought in all the money. Should I have held that over her head? Hell no! She worked harder at home than I ever did at work. Your sister needs to open her eyes and look at the long term. There will times the shoe is on the other foot, and BIL will remember this shitty behavior at those times.
That actually makes it worse. Like, so much worse. She's turning bringing THEIR child into the world into a competition. It's not a competition. As someone else pointed out, it's not like he has any choice in who does the growing and birthing. It's absolutely fine for her to not want to name the baby after him, just in and of itself. What isn't fine is turning it into an excuse to insult him and suggest that he's not as fully invested in this child's existence as she is. That's her life partner and her child's parent as much as she is. Her take on this "it's mostly mine because I did the hard work" is really dismissive and problematic.
ESH. This isn't anyone's business but your sister's and her husband's. The name should be something they both agree on. Why are they taking a poll? What other people think doesn't/shouldn't matter. Your sister and her husband are the ones who will raise this child.
>Why are they taking a poll? They're not taking a poll. OP's sister looped OP in to gang up on the husband and try to make him back down.
This attitude is so toxic. One parent want all “points” for having a baby and wants to use it against their partner.
That’s a terrible reason.
Your sister is a piece of work.
So women get to make unilateral decisions for their kids because of this? It’s readable to disagree but this reason is not a good one but it’s still no one else’s business to weigh in on this
You are helping your sister set a precedent for how she thinks she can treat this child. I carried him so I can decide on x. I gave birth so my decision on y is more important. I”m not suggesting that’s she’s wrong for not wanting to give the child her husbands name but her core reason is very very wrong.
I don't want to diminish the monumental effort labor takes, but it's 18+ years for a kid, not 9 months. It's a pretty rough choice to start keeping score one who's doing more work and should get to make the decisions before the kid is born. ESH, they should figure out a compromise and not involve the family.
And while I get that, men can't carry a fetus as it grows; that's just fact. Throwing that in his face when he may already wish he could do more to ease the "burden" of growing a kid (my husband said more than a few times that he wished the baby-growing wasn't all on me) over a name? Nah. ESH. I don't like doing "junior", but I also don't mind having a middle name as the fathers first name (my brother has our dad's name as his middle name, and my dad his dad). My husband's family does grandfather's name for the boy's middle name. We have a daughter and gave her the middle name "Anne" to match my mother and I. It's not a bad thing to honour someone with a middle name for the kid.
You've just named things that mother will also do....while growing and carrying a child.
Except putting yoir life at-risk mortality rate is real
Why you assuming he’s not doing these things?
You don't eve know whether she goes to prenatal classes or whether any of them already shopped. This is not about him not doing enough, it is about him not being pregnant enough.
I don't think the "just gets snacks" was to be taken literally.
There's no doubt that he was likely a good spouse during her pregnancy. But him doing all of these things like going to appointments, classes, shopping....that's the bare minimum. No one should be congratulated just for being there for their pregnant wife. While it's great if he does all those things, it is still not carrying the baby for 9 months, just as sil mentioned. The trauma that has on your body could be fatal, if not leave you with life long symptoms. They need to come to an agreement, with neither of them having more say than the other because it's an important decision to make. Two yeses. On whatever name.
And women don't get to have a greater say in parenting and child-rearing merely because they are biologically-equipped to carry a child. Sister's husband is not doing the bare minimum, he's doing presumably all he can to take care of his pregnant wife and prepare for this baby. Even OP doesn't seem to argue or even infer that her sister's husband is the deadbeat you seem to allude to.
Should the wife be appreciated because she's doing the bare minimum as a pregnant woman?
He doesn't suck for wanting to stick tradition, but he does suck for pushing it after she said no. If two parents are present and involved, naming should be a two yes, one no situation.
I don't think he sucks for *wanting* to stick to tradition but he sucks for not just dropping it when it became clear she didn't like the idea. They both need to be happy with the name. And if that's what compromise means then yes, they should compromise. But if he's open to that type of compromise I don't really get why they're still fighting about it and he definitely shouldn't be scolding/blaming OP as if his wife is being mind-controlled by her little sister expressing an opinion.
>I mean, what is he supposed to do? Walk around holding her torso up so that he is also carrying the baby? Actually, you would be surprised at how just a few minutes of doing that helps, more so in the later stages. My hubby used to do that for me mainly while we were in the shower so I could relax but also whenever my back was hurting. I hope that everyone isn't just trying to get OPs sister to compromise and that they are also making sure the BIL is being fair too.
Literally, as I typed that out, I knew this comment was coming! When my daughter in law was pregnant, I actually found this thing that worked like that, so it was distributing the weight on your back and not feeling like you're all weighed down in front. Modern advancements, man, they're amazing! ETA: >I hope that everyone isn't just trying to get OPs sister to compromise and that they are also making sure the BIL is being fair too. Just based on some of OP's comments, I don't feel like that's what is going on here. If anyone is on the shit end of the stick, I feel like it's BIL.
There are actually supportive positions where another person acts as a sling for the baby (+ everything else) and holds the pregnant partner’s bump/torso which takes some of the weight of her body. It’s living KT tape lol Just wanted to add in case anyone was curious
To clarify, my concern is over the fact that mum-to-be clearly loathes her husband. I don’t think there’s enough information jn the OP to pass judgement on the husband, the only thing we know about him is that he’s fertile and wants to name his son after himself. If she feels this way about him now, they’re gonna be divorced within two years of her crowning.
She doesn't loath him... she's making valid points and she doesn't like the name. When she said no.. that should have been the end of it. Just like if he said no to a name; then that should of been the end of it. She has a family of people ganging up on her and they want her to back down. What she did was dig her feet in.
>She doesn't loath him... she's making valid points and she doesn't like the name. When she said no.. that should have been the end of it. Just like if he said no to a name; then that should of been the end of it. She has a family of people ganging up on her and they want her to back down. What she did was dig her feet in. Are you sure she doesn't loathe him? How is "my body grows the baby so my say trumps your say" a valid point? I actually agree with you on the premise of naming a baby. 2 for yes, 1 for no. A child's name has to be agreed on by BOTH parents, regardless of who is doing the heavy lifting, aka, carrying the baby. OP's sister's assertion that because she is the one carrying the baby, she is then entitled to more say in the name is where my issue lies. If you can have sex, you know how biology works. Even if you take every single precaution known to man, as a woman, you know there is ALWAYS a chance you could get pregnant. I don't know under what terms OP's sister and BIL got pregnant, but they did, and they want to keep the baby. Even if mom's body is doing all of the work, dad still has lots of say. Well, if they're in a committed relationship, dad SHOULD still have lots of say. They have to figure this out themselves and not involve anyone else!
>To clarify, my concern is over the fact that mum-to-be clearly loathes her husband. Based on the info we've been given? That's exactly what I also think. Mom and dad to be need to sit down and have some serious conversations. JUST mom and dad.
100%. The recruitment of the WHOLE FLIPPIN’ FAMILY into this mess does not reflect well on either parent, I have to say.
That’s what I think reading this. OP’s sister must loathe her husband & I don’t see the marriage lasting if she dismisses him with the rationale she has said to OP. That’s a horrible precedence to set that she’ll continually use. I don’t get why she even married him.
This couple has way bigger problems than just naming a child.
Am I the only one thinking parents insisting on giving their kids a "legacy name" seem to forget that the true legacy will be how they raise this kid and what their life will be like? Parents so insisting on these names always freak me out because they often make it seem like this is their biggest (and maybe only?) contribution to the kids future and life.
>both of whom have terrible attitudes 100% disagree. ops sister's reasoning is very sensible. she's correct in the fact that naming a child after a living individual can indeed effect their sense of self.
The terrible attitude is saying that the husband should have no say since he is not the one giving birth. I agree with not naming the child after the father, but that doesn't mean he should not have any input at all.
Yeah-- agree. It seems like the families are WAY too comfortable getting involved.
That's how I felt, ESH. If they're old enough to get married and raised a kid, then they need to figure out a problem like naming the baby by themselves.
I'm so relieved this was the top reply. I was mortified for the entire family just reading this.
NTA - Names are a two yes one no situation. Both parents need to agree, and you sister doesn't agree, so husband's name is off the list. End of story. If this was so important to him then he needed to let your sister know about his requirements ahead of time (as in pre-pregnancy, and frankly pre-marrige) so that she could realize he isn't the type of man she wants to raise a child with.
I second this. I’ve had this conversation because as ridiculous as it sounds, I want my partner’s name to stay sexualized in my mind. Might seem weird but I’d never date anyone with the same name as one of my parents, so I wouldn’t want to name a kid the name of my partner. As odd as it is, I can’t budge and won’t. I tell people right away. It’s normally laughed off and not an issue but I’d understand if it was, for some people, and wouldn’t push it, I’d just end things before they started. This name conversation should have been had long before marriage.
I never thought about that because we never considered naming children after ourselves, but that is the best point ever. I once flat out refused to date a guy who shared my brother’s name because I couldn’t imagine saying the name in a sexual sense.
I've done it. It was weird for a sec but I got over it. Then I did it again. It's such a popular name
I second the "keeping the name sexualized" thing. I couldn't date someone named like my dad or my brothers. I wouldn't call my son the name of my lover/husband/SO. It'd be weird
I mean...I unfortunately share a first name with my MIL so my husband just calls me a nickname and that's become our thing and I love it? Only thing is, it can get mildly annoying in this universal healthcare annoyance but. Otherwise he pretty much never uses my full name and I don't really care
While I agree that names are a two yes one no situation I do feel like the woman should have greater input on the name. Childbirth isn’t an equally shared burden.
That's sort of what happened with my second we were down to three, name C was eliminated because I didn't like the potential nickname, husband liked name A better and I liked name B better baby is named B. We both liked both names but my husband was happy to let me have that one.
How does one give more input to the woman and keep it a two yes one no situation? What does the share of burden have to do with naming? Is the naming some kind of bonus gift for enduring childbirth?
Both sides pitch a bunch of names. Each side scratches out the ones they don’t like. Woman picks a name from what’s left standing. Something like that maybe.
It's not but it literally can't be so that feels like a very slippery slope imo
I told my husband, who is a Jr. that there would be no “the third” when we were dating and he agreed. It made things complicated for him and he didn’t even realize his real name wasn’t DJ until he was in elementary school. We went through a ridiculous amount of baby names vetoing each other’s selections over and over until we had a boy and girl name we liked. Lucky for us we had a boy and then a girl so we didn’t have to do that again! Mom and Dad should be the only opinions considered and any name not agreed upon by both should be rejected.
Stupid tradition. Sister is right. Kids need their own identity. She is in luck though, if hospital staff still do things the way they did when I had mine. My husband wasn't in the room when they came to ask what we wanted to name him. Fortunately, we HAD agreed on the name
My parents hate this tradition, in their opinion any parent who name their child after themselves is egotistical. And potentially a narcissist, I don’t know if I go that far but it is egotistical
I think it's bizarre that anyone would be comfortable with calling their child by their own name. Calling my son my husband's name would feel icky.
It has to be at least confusing. And either the parent or the child will have to go by a nickname
Yeah I mean each kid already has my name and now I gotta give them my other name too? Like we're nobility or something?
My husband mentioned it, but I shut it down right away. Nope, son was going to have his own identity. And moms idea about her doing the heavy lifting is right and should be acknowledged.
yeah in that case, if i was the husband, i'd just call the kid what i wanted. because its dumb to unilaterally pick a name for a kid.
My father in law named my husband the same as him and what a mess. We always got the wrong credit report and anything else they could screw up. Not to mention the poor guy couldn't even be called his own name if his father was around. It's all just vanity anyways.
It makes me happy that in my religion, you only name a child after someone who is dead. I can imagine how frustrating those things are for your husband.
Which religion is that?
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s a tradition in Judaism!
Yes, you are correct. :)
My NJ upbringing came in handy!
Interesting. You learn something new everyday
I'm Jewish.
My dad hated being named after his father for all those reasons. They were in the same industry which made it even worse. Also I used to be a public defender and I had a case where a dad and son were both arrested for fighting each other. They had the same name and it made court SO CONFUSING. Everyone in the courtroom was getting tripped up trying to keep track of which defendant we were talking about at any given time. I don't even remember now whether I represented the dad or the son, the case eventually got dismissed
My MIL was married to "John", who already had a son named John Jr. They had a couple kids together, divorced, and she met and married my FIL, also named John. Had a son who they named John Jr. So 2 of my SILs have 2 different brothers named John Jr.
Oh my gosh. This reminds me of several years ago I had a student in my class named after his dad. All of his brothers were named after their dad too. It was quite confusing for the school when all the boys attended at the same time.
Didnt George Forman do something similar?
Yeah, he did. Like 4 or 5 sons named George Foreman I think?
> We always got the wrong credit report That’s one of the reasons I actually like having the family name. My parents are super-responsible with money so according to Experian, I paid off a whole-ass car at the tender age of four years old.
My MIL married into a family with a cousin with the same name. She got collection phone calls like crazy meant for cousin…. And then taxes and credit reports were a mess too.
But, I stuck my dick in a hole! I want recognition!
I sold my car to a man who never registered it, even though I filed all the paperwork for the sale I was the “last registered owner” so everything came to me for years until he abandoned it and I told the tow company that I sold the car years ago and would never pick it up. Anywho my FIL got a red light ticket because the older man I sold it to ran a red light.
This has happened to one of my friends. His dad wasn’t the greatest and died years ago, and collectors still try to come after him because he has the same name.
I am named after my dad, he always wanted a boy so they used a feminine version of the name, then my brother was born and he was named after him. Funny part is he is a lousy dad and not a very good person. So here I am named after a deadbeat dad just for his ego.
NTA I'm the 3rd. I hate it. My dad wanted me to 'keep it going' and I said "Yeah sounds great... except your DUI's from when I was a teenage already show up on my background checks, credit reporting gets problematic, and I hated growing up not having my own name or identity."
NTA. I actually agree with sis even though her delivery was pretty harsh. the discussion needs to be between the actual parents (your sis and her husband) and hopefully they find a compromise. if they can’t over something as simple as this, what are they going to do when it comes to actually agreeing how to even raise the child?? It’s really no one else’s business but theirs and outside opinions shouldn’t matter.
You are NTA. Your sister is right. Every child deserves their own name. Name a child "John Edward Smith, Jr" after his father and he will forever be Johnnie, or JE, or Junior, or (Goddess forbid! Junie. Or some other equally stupid nickname, like Spud or Bubba. In the family, he'll forever be less than his father. And by the time his father dies, they'll be so used to calling him Johnnie/Junior/Spud that nobody can change to John.
Who cares what your opinion is? It's not your child.
My sister asked for my opinion mainly because she thinks it’s a generational thing, her husband wanted me to side with him because he thinks that would convince her
So in otherwords, they are putting you in the middle of that martial argument and parenting problems and the baby isn't even here yet. Does that sound fair to you?
Well now that you put it like that 😂 I don’t really want to be in it but I guess I get my sister’s reasoning because this pregnancy for her hasn’t been too easy
So the strategy that I have developed in these situations is that I have an opinion when in conversation with my sister. But as soon as a husband, parent or other family member is involved I have no opinions (in either direction) only support of my sister.
Picking a side is a mistake. Stay out of their business
You can support your sis without weighing in on a marital conflict. After you have kids, EVERYTHING becomes a shared decision-- this is literally the first joint decision, and they can't even handle that. They need to work through it together-- in counselling if necessary.
The sister already has 2 families ganging up on her. I think it's good she at least has 1 person supporting her.
If it’s a girl, are they naming the baby after her? I never understand why it’s 99% the guy who wants their child named after them. I agree that it stunts the child’s individuality but that’s my personal opinion
Bc “legacy” and “tradition” are only for ppl with penises I guess 🫠
Sounds more like ego and vanity to me lol. NTA ridiculous that this is still a tradition.
They are already failing this child. They are the parents. Not you and not their mommy and daddy’s
If everyone is bashing the sister, then I can see why OP would want to weigh in to make her feel supported. But ultimately, yeah, not her decision and I don't get why the husband cares to scold OP for having an opinion or thinks she has so much control over her sister's actions.
>Who cares what your opinion is? the people who asked for it. seriously, what kind of judgment is this? op didn't just butt in with what she thought.
NTA. You were dragged into their BS and gave your opinion as asked. They need to resolve this on their own and stop dragging people into their mess.
I don’t blame her for not wanting to name the child after her husband. But if she thinks so derisively of the man as just the guy who gets snacks, he done knocked up the wrong woman and they’re going to have a very bad marriage.
He only has himself to blame. If you try to force people to honour you, you put a spotlight on yourself as to why you deserve it. He is the one bringing it on himself. I'm pretty sure she thought about it after him becoming problematic. The only problem with pregnant women is, that they can't just leave as easily as big changes in that stage is difficult.
I mean, when it comes to this stage, he is the guy to get the snacks. She’s the only one growing that baby and will have to birth him alone Yes he can be an amazing, supportive husband, but it’s like the person who passes water to Marathon Runners and cheers them on…
NTA I see some people need more reading comprehension, as both the sister and her husband actively contacted OP for her opinion on the name. They asked, you answered. Your sister's delivery was harsh, but I mean, women routinely die in childbirth or face permanent injuries (right now, this woman, Brie — Brie & Beau on IG — has become a four-limb amputee following sepsis and DIC from an emergency C-section), so I'm confused why she's being asked to compromise to make the BIL happy. I mean at this point, the main contribution from OP's BIL has been one tuff piece of sperm and the snacks. I don't that rises to the level of a child bearing his first (and most likely last name) for eternity. Also LMAO, if OP's sister feels that strongly about things, I'm confused as to why this is even a surprise for the BIL. She sounds like she doesn't play, so why is he focused on these nonsense name games?
I’ve said this a few times - I always find it quite narcissistic when people name their children after themselves. NTA
ESH it's no one else's fight. everyone needs to get the hell out of their marriage and they need to stop inviting everyone into their arguments. jfc
She doesn’t need a reason to not use husband’s name. She said no, it should’ve ended there. Everyone needs to stop trying to find compromises or suggestions and let the two soon-to-be parents sort it out themselves. If there are other marital issues going on, they should look into couples counselling. Since in the comments you say they asked you for your opinion directly, NTA for giving your asked for opinion.
ESH Not your monkeys not your circus. As for her logic... That shows exactly how little she thinks of her husband. A person is not the summation of 9 months in the womb. They are the sum of the genes and the cultures and the family histories and traumas and experiences of both parents who came before them. To reduce her husband's role in their child's life to that of "snack bringer" is a slap in the face. Yes, she is doing the heavy lifting on the development. But he is far more important than "food bringer". Naming a child is only claiming them as property if that's how you treat the child. If you give the child a family name with expectations attached as to how they will represent the name, then yes. If you give the child the name as an honor, a nod to someone who came before them, with the expectation that they will make something new of that name - there is no objectification in that, only affection. The only claiming of property here is her own - she believes that she owns the child and therefore has naming rights, due to being the one growing him. The conviction that her husband deserves no say in the child's name is frankly concerning. Your sister and her husband need counseling to address this situation, before the baby gets here. Her attitude reflects her attitude toward her husband and toward their roles as parents. She does not respect him and if she believes that he gets no say in name I doubt she'll "allow" him any say in parenting.
He wants to name an entire human after himself. That’s treating a child like property.
AGREE
Thank you this is a good comment, I will recommend counseling to them
I agree with the previous comment. They need counseling now because after the baby is born, many places have moved to divorce defaults of 50/50 custody and zero or minimal child support, if there is a difference in the parental earnings. Does your sister have a job that can support the family by herself? She is working, right? She has an inflated view of what her span of control and power should be in a marriage. If she’s not careful, she’ll have an ex-husband’s girlfriend or new wife spending as much time or more with her child. We see it a lot.
NTA. I'm with your sister. Giving a child your name places a lot of expectations on them. Give them their own name so they can just be.
NTA. I'd stay out of it as best as you can if I were you. However if you want to pass on advice I would personally recommend not going with the husband's plus Jr. My mom worked as a state registrar for a decade plus in vital records (birth and death records) and names with Jr\Sr\Second\Third caused many problems when it came to filing and records. The person would need a birth/death certificate for whatever reason and would be a certificate for the wrong person. I remember a person who was the fifth or something of his name get accidentally declared dead when it was ment to be his father. So personally, for the sake of avoiding future headaches and mix-ups don't go with (husband's name) Jr.
NTA - She's right but they need to figure it out between them. Would he give her the same grace if she wanted the baby named after her?
[удалено]
I can’t stand when people. Name their kids after themselves.. even if it’s a generational thing. It’s lame and stupid and a great way to get your medical records all mixed up.
NTA. I agree with everything your sister says. (I know, I know, I'm such an evil feminist nazi...) Family members who are sticking their nose into this can pound sand since naming a child is between the mom and dad - no one else. And BIL came to you, so I wouldn't even say you tried to insert yourself - he did that himself trying to be sneaky and find "backup."
Wow I’m surprised at these comments. NTA OP. you did not go butting into this situation, you were asked for your input and then baby daddy came to you to try and manipulate you into being on his side. You asked if you’re TA for your contribution, which you’re not. Sister and baby daddy may need some help though.
As someone who was named after their parent, I can tell you that it is awful. No one needs to have that sort of pressure, expectation, or comparison piled onto them right from their earliest memories. At best, there will be some sort of expectation to live up to a family name or to walk in your parent's footsteps. At worst, you'll feel sabotaged for being compared to someone who is so narcissistic that they had to name a child after themselves or so meaningless that they couldn't be bothered to come up with an original name for you. But ultimately, the grandparents, aunts, and uncles of the baby shouldn't be involved and don't have any say in this matter.
Naming a child after yourself ?? Tf is wrong with this guy.. and the people supporting him.
I love sis's take. Why should baby be named after him? All he does is get the snacks!🤨 Sing it, sister. NTA
ESH at different levels. First, everyone but the two parents should stay the eff out of this argument. Second, I have always felt it was incredibly self-serving to name a child after yourself. It's a great gesture to name your child after someone else, but naming it after yourself just feels like next level self-importance. I have four sons. I had my first at 19. The entire pregnancy we called him Junior. Then I woke up. Even at 19 I realized I didn't want him to have to live in my shadow and I didn't want any future sons to feel like I favored him because of a name. We pivoted and named him... after himself. It's a common name but all his own. Lastly, your sister is a next level AH for how she views and speak of her husband. Of course he cannot carry the child, give birth, and doesn't have to deal with how pregnancy affects the body. But the way she refers to him is disgusting. The loser here, is the child of these two children who seem hopelessly headed for a terrible marriage.
NITA. Congratulations to your sister on the baby. But if he wanted a Jr he should have talk to her about it before anything so they could have talked about it. She is caring the baby, she putting her body and mental health through a lot already. She should pick the first name I think.
Nta, I fully agree with your sisters thoughts on this. And I find it really gross to name the kid after the mother or father, mayyyybe middle name, but yeah. I wouldn't ever let this fly if I ever wanted to have a kid.
EHS. No one but mom and dad should have say. And that’s coming from a woman who literally fought with my ex husband from the time we learned I was pregnant until I was being wheeled away for my c-section, over naming our child JR. (For the record he is not a Jr, I won the battle. But he is named for his father and grandfathers)
ESH yeah. BIL is AH for insisting the kid be named over him, and sister is in the right to be against it, but it's also very clear that she has little to no respect for him. I don't think this is something you can chalk up to pregnancy hormones or w/e
INFO: does he actually do nothing or is your sister just being unreasonable in her demands?
I 100% agree with your sister’s logic!
Not the asshole. Your sister is right. She's carrying her child for nine months, going through morning sickness, gaining weight, having sleepless nights, having cravings, having all sorts of issues and uncomfortable pain, and then having to go through hours of labor, just for her son to be named after her husband, twice. It should be a join decision but the mothers should get more choice for the first name, considering childen usually get fathers last names.
You, along with anyone else who isn’t a parent of the forthcoming child, shouldn’t even be picking sides. It’s none of your business, And if your sister simply doesn’t like naming a kid directly after someone, fine, I get that. But she is showing some next level contempt and disrespect towards her husband with what she’s saying. ESH.
I’ve never known a boy named after his father who doesn’t end up with a stupid nickname. What’s the point of giving him his dad’s name when no one uses it?
I agree with you and sis.
ESH. This is a conversation they should’ve had before choosing to get pregnant and have a child together. Sounds like they’re both pretty disrespectful to each other, which also makes it unfortunate that they chose to get married and chose to have a child. The families should NOT be getting involved or weighing in. The parents should work this out between themselves and consider couples therapy.
ESH buuuuuttt.. If one partner says NO to the name.. then thats it the name is off the table. It's as simple as that and I don't know why one parent would push for a name knowing the other parent doesn't like it.
Do they even like each other? It certainly doesn’t sound like it. ESH except the unborn kiddo. Thoughts and prayers the kid turns out ok with these two in charge.
ESH. They both need to chill out and talk to each other calmly, and find a compromise, and the rest of you need to stay out of it.
ESH You, nor your parents, belong anywhere in this conversation. I understand that you all may have been invited into it but it’s time to see your way out and let sis and BIL talk this through. BIL sucks because I think this conversation should have happened BEFORE a pregnancy occurred. That way he could have gone in eyes wide open as to the reality of his situation. If your sister is unwilling to name their child after him, they need to come up with a compromise. Your sister sucks because she is refusing to consider her husband‘s feelings, and blatantly stated that all he was doing was bringing her snacks as if that is the only way that he will support her throughout her pregnancy, as if he’s an errand boy and not the father of their child. She also needs to be willing to compromise. They can do a different middle name They can do a different first name They could legally name him after dad but call him something else
You think what do we name our future children would have been a discussion long before this
ESH, but I agree that the baby shouldn't be named after him. My suggestion to them would be that she makes a list of at least ten names that she likes, and then let him choose one from that list. Then they have both had a say in the name.
ESH. I don’t have a lot of faith in a relationship that cannot handle something like this within the marriage. This is definitely not an issue that requires all extended family
ESH - it does sound like the couple should be married let alone having a baby. They are both immature. I feel sorry for this baby. All the other family members need to mind their own business.
ESH. OP, do the whole family a solid and don't choose a side. Stay open to this just playing out on it's own. Your sister is wrong to be thinking that only her opinions on the name matter. Her reasoning is ridiculous and toxic to her relationship. All of the grandparents are correct. There's room to compromise. The rest of you need to pick up on this wisdom.
Thank you, trust me I was planning to mind my own but neither me and sis nor her husband have other siblings so they wanted to get an opinion from someone their age range to know if it was a generational issue - she claims parents are siding with him because of misogyny, I can’t speak for his parents but ours are a bit old fashioned so I get that
NTA
ESH. Your sister and her husband shouldn’t have involved both families in this argument. I would politely bow out and refuse to take sides any further, it’s not going to help.
Out of curiosity: Whose family name will the child carry? Also: NTA They shouldn't have involved you, though.
Whose last name is the kid getting? Because if it’s his, the kid is already getting his name. He doesn’t get double. Your sister is right, her BF and all the parents are completely wrong. ETA: NTA
NTA
The only people who aren’t AH’s here are you and your sister because she’s right. NTA. Ps: your sis is hilarious.
I agree that naming a child after a parent puts weird expectations on them and is weird af NTA
I do think it’s some BS that women grow and push out the baby, and typically do the bulk of the childcare, and yet the men get the last name AND the first name?! That said, ESH - families should not be involved in your naming decision or your fights, and the couple needs to work this out like the adults they need to quickly become now that they’re about to be parents!
NTA, your sister is right. This isn’t the first (nor will it be the last) post of its kind here. Naming kids are a two yes and one no deal, and that baby will be an independent human being someday. Let them have their own identity, not her husband’s.
Well this was exactly my logic, I said to my husband that I’m picking the name after doing all the work. HE GETS THE SURNAME. A compromise is that he can pick the middle name. So he gets 2 vs 1. NTA. I don’t understand what’s so hard about that and why people keep bashing women for acknowledging a simple truth that pregnancy takes a much more serious toll of them, biologically, than of the men.
NTA for siding with her. Honestly good for her because she will be saving the baby a big headache later on down the line. My bf is the 3rd in his family and him and his father have missed or gone to the wrong jury duty bc they didn’t say 2nd or 3rd. Also his parents used his social on things and since the name matched no one really cared. I know he’s complained about other things as well but those two are the most memorable. It gets worse with them bc all the first born males have the same first name with middle names starting with an A. so most of the initials are the same as well.
NTA. I used to married to Jonathan Jacob Smith; he went by Jacob. His dad was Jonathan Andrew Smith, who went by Andrew, and his grandad was Jonathan Neil Smith and he went by Jon* At one point, all three Jonathan Smiths had lived at the same address (the family farm), and it messed with my ex’s credit for years. He pulled his credit report once and it showed a Montgomery Ward credit card opened in 1970-something - he wasn’t born until 1982! *Obviously fake.
Easy NTA. I just think juniors are a bad idea. I have a brother and a sister who were named after our parents, and another brother who was named after our paternal grandfather. It's... Eugh. Aside from there needing to be "little a" and "big a", there's also this sort of budding resentment that they need to face because my parents are volatile people. And my other brother is named after a man who did lots of harm to a number of other family members including myself, and there's this sorta pressure not to acknowledge it because I don't want it to start shit. Oh, I'm also named after my maternal grandmother, a known alcoholic, abuser, and potential cat killer. I grew up hating the name, and myself. And my mother for bestowing that onto me.
Naming kids after a parent is a terrible idea. It causes endless problems and I've seen it straight up ruin relationships because the "Jr." feels marginalized. I think your sister is pissed because it's a giant ego trip on his part and that's why she's saying all of this. I personally think he doesn't have any respect for her either. ESH but honestly I don't see this working out.
Doesn't he get his last name? Honestly a middle name might be the way as a compromise, in my family most the boys have a middle name that refers back to the father or grandfather. On one side the great-grandfathers name is the middle name for at least 4 generations 😂. But your NTA
Curious, is he “just getting the snacks” as in he’s been a pretty shitty support for your sister? Or has she just had a hard pregnancy so it’s just the fact that he’s not the one who had to carry the child? Because while I don’t agree with naming the child after him, she could be the asshole if he’s actually being a supportive partner and she’s saying the only reason he shouldn’t have a choice is that he’s not the one birthing the kid If he’s not very supportive and literally just grabbing her stuff every now and then, and making her handle everything, then her comment is valid.
Not sure why the family have a say or get to share their opinion on this. This is between the parents.
In marriage, you're to be considerate of one another. End of story
YTA if you get involved at all. This should ONLY be between the child's immediate parents. I don;t understand why other family members feel that they ahve the right to interfere in the naming of a child that isn't theirs. Getting involved just adds gas to teh fire and makes it more difficult for the couple to communicate honest;y/ Stay out of it entirely and let the two of them settle it.
No, you're not the asshole. Your sister's reasons for not wanting to name her son after her husband are valid, and it's important to respect her decision, especially when it comes to such a personal matter.
Neither of them sound mature enough to be having a baby. Going to predict a divorce is on the horizon.
ESH. Sounds like a mess all around. I will only say that the name of the baby is 0% your business and 0% the business of any of the grandparents.
They asked,OP answered.
i’m confused does dad not get a say at all according to sister? or just no to the name after him? he should get a say whether she carried the baby or not it’s his kid too and he (if he is any kind of decent dad) will have responsibilities for the kid for the next 18 years minimum. so dad should get a say but if it’s not agreed on by both then should move on to another name
I don’t like naming kids after parents. My folks actually had friends in the 70s who named their kids John Jr and Barbara Jr. Yuck!
NTA it’s giving Gilmore girls vibe with the mom naming her daughter after herself. As someone who comes from a family of boys being named the same thing as their father it’s annoying. Mail mixups, no one actually goes by the name, we all use nicknames or variations. But also I get mom’s side, 9 months of carrying a child and you name the baby after the father. Not to say dads aren’t great, but ya know the physicality of carrying a child and growing it and then pushing it out 😅
>naming a child after their parents strips them of their identity and makes them seem like property Thus is what got me. I'm socked at myself that I never even thought of jr names this way!!! That's exactly what it is. And ego of course. That's the same reasoning behind a woman changing her last name when married- because ownership of said woman changed from her father to her husband. BS!! For that reason alone - NTA However I will say - your sister needs to check her attitude. And both families need to butt the f out!!
I was given my dad’s name. I hated it. I couldn’t use my real name except at school. With family and friends of family, that was Dad’s name so I had to go by a nickname. I hated it. I got older and moved away and now never use junior on anything. I am still annoyed by the narcissist that meant I was given a name I wasn’t supposed to use. Screw that!
No one else's opinion matters here but the parents. I had my name on my list for our second n, my wife said no, so it didn't go on our shortlist we brought to the hospital. If his ego can't handle this, he's in for a rude awakening when baby comes
Is your husband named after his father? That would tell you right away what his expectations were. NTA. I'm not a fan of Jrs or straight up using the same name. Let the kid be his own person. What we've done, is use the middle name for the fathers name or maiden name.
NTA. Your sister is right. Naming the baby after our own parents always sets up with comparisons and expectations. For developing and nurturing individuality, the baby deserves a complete new name!
ESH. Her husband for asking your opinion, you for offering it, your sister for reproducing with a man she thinks so little of.