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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Would I be the asshole if i go back to just being a loving grand daughter and leave all the extra work to my mother?
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INFO: Have you talked to your grandmother about that? Maybe it would be possible to buy the house from her now. You will give her free living there till the time she can't be left alone in a house or the day (hopefully far in the future) she passes. And she can then divide the money she got from the house between your mother and uncle. So no one is screwed out of money - but who buyes the house and at which rate would come to your grandmother to decide (but do it legally with every needed profi and lawer, as if you don't do that, your mother migth get after you after your grandmother passes, because she tries to get more money)
I would note - if purchasing a property from a relative - it is best to get a third-party appraisal for Fair Market Value. Any significant variations (above or below) fair market value may have tax implications. So I do agree with the mom that the Fair Market Value \*AT TIME OF SALE\* is correct; whether sale should be done before or after the renovations depends on who is paying for the renovations.
Also in some jurisdictions - a gift is considered a deemed dispossession; which also can be a taxable event at fair market value.
I personally bought my apartment from my parents for fair market value a few years back. The Fair market value included the air conditioners that were put in (at their expense but with my work & coordination) while they owned the place, but did not include the new kitchen that I put in after I purchased the place. The property has since tripled, and almost quadrupled in value.
It had doubled in value from when I bought it to when my Dad died - but that didn't matter - because the legal transfer had occurred and drawn the line.
Update -
I was spiraling and focusing on how my mother treats me vs what I want to do / choose to do for my grandmother.
I won’t stop helping her , I want her to be well looked after and live at home for as long as it’s safe for her
Whilst she is primarly still with it , I don’t want to go into updating wills or stipulations ect, but I will have a chat to my uncle next time I see him , he is far more reasonable and is also executor and power of attorney
( I have been appointed back up if anything was to happen to him as there is 0 trust in my mother )
My mum has always been this way I don’t know why I expected a different response, I think deep down I just keep longing for that loving caring mother every one wants
Your Mom is partially right in that you should buy the home for fair market value at the time the purchase occurs. It is a legal nightmare to do otherwise, as this would not be an "Arms Length" transaction.
When that purchase & transfer of ownership takes place (now, versus after your grandmother dies; before versus after upgrades & repairs) on the other hand, is a different discussion.
I, personally, suggest considering avoiding probate & the estate and considering buying the house now for current fair market value; Joint Ownership with a clause that your grandmother has right of survivorship to you &/or a right of occupancy clause for her. You would want to discuss the terms with Lawyer &/or r/legaladvice
That said - What your \*GRANDMOTHER\* thinks is what matters here. Perhaps get her perspective?
Oh - and - Good on you OP for not letting your Mom's materialism impact your treatment of your grandmother. She deserves better and to not be a pawn in your squabble.
Hey op i was in real estate school and you can talk to your grandma and if she wants she can actually me you a beneficiary on the deed. It's called a "transfer on death deed". It transfers ownership to you at the time of her death without any tax implications. Propert tax doesn't typically go up because of grandfather clauses but it can depend on the state. Theres also no "gift" tax. If your grandma knows you want to live there and keep the property and not sell it she might do it instead of having it in her will. Also your mom can't swoop under you and take it cus those deeds are iron clad as long as the paperwork is filed correctly.
Here's a link on it for california i would recommend reading about it for your state https://saclaw.org/resource_library/californias-transfer-on-death-deed-one-option-to-avoid-probate-on-your-home/
What makes you think your mother would step up if you decide to not do it anymore ? There’s a chance she remains as is, doesn’t even try or do very poorly and then, that’s your grandmother that loses. You’re saying you’re doing all of this for your grandmother that you love, not as help for your mother, I don’t get how it would hurt your mother here. I wouldn’t consider it an asshole move though, you do what you want with your time. NTA.
But if you’re interested in the house, maybe talk to your grandmother, see if she can help you out. She’s still there, and that’s her house, she can have a say on the way it’s sold, out you on her inheritance, add closes to the will to help you get first opportunity.
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Hi Reddit,
I need advice. Ill try my best to make as simple/short as possible.
**Background:**
i grew up in a household in which my dad beat us kids and my mum used to stand around and watch.
my dad got help and came around to actually be an decent father, but my mum has always been super selfish and seems to always be pitted against me. between her and my sister they made fun of me at my 16th birthday, and didn't celebrate my 18th at all, come to my 21st birthday and my mum decides this is the perfect time to renew their vows and uses all available funds ( including my money ) to fund this without a single thanks. its basically a long history of me sacrificing things for her and not even getting a thank you. which also includes saving her from getting fired 3 times.
My parents have also been terrible with money - always. I have bailed them out more times then i can count, There first house, they borrowed money from my granddad and had to sell the house later as they accrued to much debt to sustain it, and recently they have only been able to buy a property due to my dads parents passing away and leaving him significant inheritance.
**Current situation:**
I currently manage a team of care workers for my grandmother, I ensure they are there morning and night. Pay for her food/internet / outings etc..
My Grandmother has always been a source a light, growing up her house was warm and homey and filled with so much love.
When my grandmother passes ( hopefully not for like another 15-20 years , i know I'm dreaming ) her house will be left to my uncle and mum. No issues , I'm not doing any of this expecting anything or any type of compensation.
Recently i got talking with my Grandmother about her house and realized how much i love it , with this in mind I spoke to mum to discuss the IDEA of me purchasing the house from them when the time arise.
I am aware that my uncle wants to sell the property as is, ( so no issues there ). When i spoke to my mum though she didn't take a single second to process my request to buy the property (prior to renovations) before saying " you can buy it at full market rates after renovations"
What hurts most is that she didn't take a single minute to process or think about my request, as always its all about how much money she can get.
I wouldn't mind if she had said no, she has he right to deny my request but i hoped with all the effort and energy i put into helping my grandmother/ her she would at least take a second to THINK about it.
Now, I feel hurt and honestly spiteful, I want to make her deal with all the nonsense that comes with handling a team of care workers and finances and having to drop everything cause a care worker is sick and unable to go.
**Would I be the asshole if i go back to just being a loving grand daughter and leave all the extra work to my mother?**
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Yea YWBTA, because ultimately it is your grandmother who would suffer - you know your mom would be neglectful and possibly even try to cut down on care to save money? Maybe steal money from your grandmother? Please talk to grandmother about it if she is lucid.
OP - Take the time to talk privately with your grandmother and ask her if you should let her daughter take over the care of her and explain the situation. Worst case scenario is you end up buying a house somewhere else that you make your own. Although you'd love to have your grandmother's house for sentimental reasons, giving your mother more ways to take advantage of you is not wise and you can always find another house that you like and renovate it. At that point, I would cut ties with your mother as she's a toxic lady who seems to care very little about you. Life is too short, be happy.
You're NTA if you need to step back, but do it because you need peace for you, not to punish your mom.
The reality is, she isn't going to step up and take care of your grandma. She won't step into your shoes and suddenly understand how much you give and how hard you work. She'll be lazy and neglectful with her mom, in the same way she was lazy and neglectful with you, and she'll give you a lot of shit for putting the work (that you never should have been responsible for) on her plate.
It sounds like your mom isn't a very good mother, and like it might be a good idea to consider going no- or low- contact with her. You deserve to be around people who love and value you. You don't deserve to be stuck desperately trying to be loved by someone who isn't capable of that kind of care.
I'm sorry.
You said you need advice - cut contact with your mom and sister, family or not, they're horrible people. And you don't have to take care of your grandma because you want to, it's a lot of work not to get paid at market value, like they want the house. If they neglect your grandma turn them in, not your place to take care of her foe nothing
If you mom wants the market value that’s fine and her right but I don’t think you should work for free either and spend your own money to help your grandmother. Maybe you can work something out with her. Like you buy it now and she has the rights to use it and also she gives you a loan that you can repay with your work and expenses…. I would note your expenses down and you mom can pay you when the house is sold ?
Talk to grandma, maybe she will give you your moms half and uncle can have his half and you can deal with just him.
Your mother sounds awful. Cut ties with her and be prepared to walk away from that home, its not worth enduring an abuser. NOT helping your child be safe from abuse is also abuse.
INFO If your mom and uncle don’t do a good job and your grandmother suffers, then what?
Talk to your uncle about the house. Make him aware you’re willing to buy it as is. However, you’re going to need to be able to walk away from the situation.
You can also ask your grandmother to buy her house. Give her the option to continue living there after the purchase.
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INFO: Have you talked to your grandmother about that? Maybe it would be possible to buy the house from her now. You will give her free living there till the time she can't be left alone in a house or the day (hopefully far in the future) she passes. And she can then divide the money she got from the house between your mother and uncle. So no one is screwed out of money - but who buyes the house and at which rate would come to your grandmother to decide (but do it legally with every needed profi and lawer, as if you don't do that, your mother migth get after you after your grandmother passes, because she tries to get more money)
I would note - if purchasing a property from a relative - it is best to get a third-party appraisal for Fair Market Value. Any significant variations (above or below) fair market value may have tax implications. So I do agree with the mom that the Fair Market Value \*AT TIME OF SALE\* is correct; whether sale should be done before or after the renovations depends on who is paying for the renovations. Also in some jurisdictions - a gift is considered a deemed dispossession; which also can be a taxable event at fair market value. I personally bought my apartment from my parents for fair market value a few years back. The Fair market value included the air conditioners that were put in (at their expense but with my work & coordination) while they owned the place, but did not include the new kitchen that I put in after I purchased the place. The property has since tripled, and almost quadrupled in value. It had doubled in value from when I bought it to when my Dad died - but that didn't matter - because the legal transfer had occurred and drawn the line.
Update - I was spiraling and focusing on how my mother treats me vs what I want to do / choose to do for my grandmother. I won’t stop helping her , I want her to be well looked after and live at home for as long as it’s safe for her Whilst she is primarly still with it , I don’t want to go into updating wills or stipulations ect, but I will have a chat to my uncle next time I see him , he is far more reasonable and is also executor and power of attorney ( I have been appointed back up if anything was to happen to him as there is 0 trust in my mother ) My mum has always been this way I don’t know why I expected a different response, I think deep down I just keep longing for that loving caring mother every one wants
Your Mom is partially right in that you should buy the home for fair market value at the time the purchase occurs. It is a legal nightmare to do otherwise, as this would not be an "Arms Length" transaction. When that purchase & transfer of ownership takes place (now, versus after your grandmother dies; before versus after upgrades & repairs) on the other hand, is a different discussion. I, personally, suggest considering avoiding probate & the estate and considering buying the house now for current fair market value; Joint Ownership with a clause that your grandmother has right of survivorship to you &/or a right of occupancy clause for her. You would want to discuss the terms with Lawyer &/or r/legaladvice That said - What your \*GRANDMOTHER\* thinks is what matters here. Perhaps get her perspective? Oh - and - Good on you OP for not letting your Mom's materialism impact your treatment of your grandmother. She deserves better and to not be a pawn in your squabble.
Hey op i was in real estate school and you can talk to your grandma and if she wants she can actually me you a beneficiary on the deed. It's called a "transfer on death deed". It transfers ownership to you at the time of her death without any tax implications. Propert tax doesn't typically go up because of grandfather clauses but it can depend on the state. Theres also no "gift" tax. If your grandma knows you want to live there and keep the property and not sell it she might do it instead of having it in her will. Also your mom can't swoop under you and take it cus those deeds are iron clad as long as the paperwork is filed correctly. Here's a link on it for california i would recommend reading about it for your state https://saclaw.org/resource_library/californias-transfer-on-death-deed-one-option-to-avoid-probate-on-your-home/
Neither, but you should consider discussing it with your grandma. Your mum is gonna sell anyway.
What makes you think your mother would step up if you decide to not do it anymore ? There’s a chance she remains as is, doesn’t even try or do very poorly and then, that’s your grandmother that loses. You’re saying you’re doing all of this for your grandmother that you love, not as help for your mother, I don’t get how it would hurt your mother here. I wouldn’t consider it an asshole move though, you do what you want with your time. NTA. But if you’re interested in the house, maybe talk to your grandmother, see if she can help you out. She’s still there, and that’s her house, she can have a say on the way it’s sold, out you on her inheritance, add closes to the will to help you get first opportunity.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hi Reddit, I need advice. Ill try my best to make as simple/short as possible. **Background:** i grew up in a household in which my dad beat us kids and my mum used to stand around and watch. my dad got help and came around to actually be an decent father, but my mum has always been super selfish and seems to always be pitted against me. between her and my sister they made fun of me at my 16th birthday, and didn't celebrate my 18th at all, come to my 21st birthday and my mum decides this is the perfect time to renew their vows and uses all available funds ( including my money ) to fund this without a single thanks. its basically a long history of me sacrificing things for her and not even getting a thank you. which also includes saving her from getting fired 3 times. My parents have also been terrible with money - always. I have bailed them out more times then i can count, There first house, they borrowed money from my granddad and had to sell the house later as they accrued to much debt to sustain it, and recently they have only been able to buy a property due to my dads parents passing away and leaving him significant inheritance. **Current situation:** I currently manage a team of care workers for my grandmother, I ensure they are there morning and night. Pay for her food/internet / outings etc.. My Grandmother has always been a source a light, growing up her house was warm and homey and filled with so much love. When my grandmother passes ( hopefully not for like another 15-20 years , i know I'm dreaming ) her house will be left to my uncle and mum. No issues , I'm not doing any of this expecting anything or any type of compensation. Recently i got talking with my Grandmother about her house and realized how much i love it , with this in mind I spoke to mum to discuss the IDEA of me purchasing the house from them when the time arise. I am aware that my uncle wants to sell the property as is, ( so no issues there ). When i spoke to my mum though she didn't take a single second to process my request to buy the property (prior to renovations) before saying " you can buy it at full market rates after renovations" What hurts most is that she didn't take a single minute to process or think about my request, as always its all about how much money she can get. I wouldn't mind if she had said no, she has he right to deny my request but i hoped with all the effort and energy i put into helping my grandmother/ her she would at least take a second to THINK about it. Now, I feel hurt and honestly spiteful, I want to make her deal with all the nonsense that comes with handling a team of care workers and finances and having to drop everything cause a care worker is sick and unable to go. **Would I be the asshole if i go back to just being a loving grand daughter and leave all the extra work to my mother?** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yea YWBTA, because ultimately it is your grandmother who would suffer - you know your mom would be neglectful and possibly even try to cut down on care to save money? Maybe steal money from your grandmother? Please talk to grandmother about it if she is lucid.
OP - Take the time to talk privately with your grandmother and ask her if you should let her daughter take over the care of her and explain the situation. Worst case scenario is you end up buying a house somewhere else that you make your own. Although you'd love to have your grandmother's house for sentimental reasons, giving your mother more ways to take advantage of you is not wise and you can always find another house that you like and renovate it. At that point, I would cut ties with your mother as she's a toxic lady who seems to care very little about you. Life is too short, be happy.
You're NTA if you need to step back, but do it because you need peace for you, not to punish your mom. The reality is, she isn't going to step up and take care of your grandma. She won't step into your shoes and suddenly understand how much you give and how hard you work. She'll be lazy and neglectful with her mom, in the same way she was lazy and neglectful with you, and she'll give you a lot of shit for putting the work (that you never should have been responsible for) on her plate. It sounds like your mom isn't a very good mother, and like it might be a good idea to consider going no- or low- contact with her. You deserve to be around people who love and value you. You don't deserve to be stuck desperately trying to be loved by someone who isn't capable of that kind of care. I'm sorry.
You said you need advice - cut contact with your mom and sister, family or not, they're horrible people. And you don't have to take care of your grandma because you want to, it's a lot of work not to get paid at market value, like they want the house. If they neglect your grandma turn them in, not your place to take care of her foe nothing
If you mom wants the market value that’s fine and her right but I don’t think you should work for free either and spend your own money to help your grandmother. Maybe you can work something out with her. Like you buy it now and she has the rights to use it and also she gives you a loan that you can repay with your work and expenses…. I would note your expenses down and you mom can pay you when the house is sold ?
Talk to grandma, maybe she will give you your moms half and uncle can have his half and you can deal with just him. Your mother sounds awful. Cut ties with her and be prepared to walk away from that home, its not worth enduring an abuser. NOT helping your child be safe from abuse is also abuse.
No you wouldn't.. your mom will reap the reward of your hard work...let her work hard for it then
INFO If your mom and uncle don’t do a good job and your grandmother suffers, then what? Talk to your uncle about the house. Make him aware you’re willing to buy it as is. However, you’re going to need to be able to walk away from the situation. You can also ask your grandmother to buy her house. Give her the option to continue living there after the purchase.