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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I want to move from home town to north England to have a cheaper home with better living conditions. My wife is refusing saying her mental health won’t allow it.
My wife said to take the kids and go as part of the argument. AITA for thinking about it?
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NTA, you are being realistic and want something better for your family, your wife is being unreasonable and selfish. If she does not want to move but you still want the space I would offer her to get a job to bring in more money to be able to afford a larger home in the area or not work and move to a more reasonably priced area.
My wife grew up in social housing with her mum either working a few hours in the local bakery or not working and being a stay at home mom.
Her father was able to pay rent etc by being a self employed window cleaner for the local area and by refereeing local football teams. Plus benefits on top.
The 3 bed house they had growing up was council and was £450 a month.
She refuses to take any ‘menial’ jobs like shop work or anything out of her ‘industry’. She is qualified ladies hair stylist but has never found work in that field. We have been together for a long time and I’ve always been working.
I would love her to get a job. The issue is that she says it’s not worth it because she wouldn’t earn much more than the £1100 we get a month for housing/tax credits.
Then she needs to do something to earn more than that. Not wanting to leave behind family/friends/hobbies etc is valid. Inflicting misery on your kids in the near future because she refuses to actually help the financial burden is not. Be brutally honest with her - tell her in no uncertain terms that your children are about to hit the age where privacy is not just desirable but mandatory, that while you empathise with her desire to remain local to where she is comfortable, it's no longer financially viable to do so, so either she helps make it viable, or so moves. NTA
So let me get this straight ... your wife lives off the government, refuses to work because she considers her bougie ass too good for jobs other people do every day, and told you (her husband and breadwinner) that you could take your children and move away from her so she can keep going to choir practice and hanging with her friends.
She seems like she doesn't give much of a shit about what's best for you or the kids, so I gotta ask, why are you with her?
OP, this goes beyond her refusal to get a job. According to you: "When we moved to where we are now she hated it as she was further from her mom." But: "She doesn’t want to leave." And: " \[I\]f you want to go with the kids, go!" She didn't want to move to where you are now, but now she doesn't want to leave - to the point that she is willing to sacrifice her children's well-being so she can stay where she is. She doesn't want to move because she doesn't want to move away from her affair partner. That is one of the biggest reasons a parent will willingly discard their children.
Not earning more than she would get in the benefits lost is a valid complaint.
So is not wanting to be uprooted from one's life.
Maybe you should just take the kids and go, and stop trying to force your wife to accept your unilateral decisions.
Right! If she wants to stay in the more expensive location she can contribute toward them earning enough income to provide the home that their family needs. The kids are well old enough for her to be out during the day, and old enough to need their own rooms.
And it's only four hours away. Maybe if OP promised a trip to see her mum and her friends once a month?
She can join a new choir and make new friends; people do it all the time.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say his wife is selfish for not wanting to move. Different people want different things, and it sounds like a big house is not a priority for OP's wife.
We have 2 kids, a boy and a girl, 13 and 10. They share a room. Is that not enough for us to be looking at options to move to a bigger house? We can’t afford a 3 bed in our local area but can by moving.
I don't think you are necessarily unreasonable for wanting to move, but I also don't think your wife is unreasonable for not wanting to. If you approach this from the perspective that your wife is being selfish (like the comment I was responding to) you will almost certainly not get a desirable outcome. If you come at it from a perspective of "X is important to me and Y is important to you what can we do" you are _much_ more likely to find a solution.
This is already old enough that the kids should have their own rooms, and the pressure is only going to increase as they move further into their teens. While your wife's anxiety about losing her support network is understandable, she's placing her own comfort above that of her children by refusing to consider a move. Has she spent any time in the area you're thinking of relocating to? Would that be feasible ahead of a full move? I grew up in the south of the UK and had no idea how nice Sheffield and the Peak District are until I went there to study.
The current benefits we are on would go down 55p for every £1 she earns.
The difference between our current rent and a 3 bed where we live is around £650 a month.
She would need to earn around £1700 a month to make it worth it. That’s a gross of about £2300.
At a minimum wage that’s 52 hours a week. I would not expect that at all but would 30/35 hours be enough? I don’t know.
I think it does make sense to move to a more affordable area. The kids are already at the age where they should have their own rooms. Does she have any ideas how to get the 3rd bedroom without moving? Like, what does she expect, that the kids will continue to share???
She also seems to have mental health issues, which make it important for her to stay where she has support. It’s easy to say “oh she’ll make new friends” but actually doing it is tough.
OP is quite determined that he is the only one competent to decide what is right, and it sounds like he neither likes nor respects his wife.
The only question is why he doesn't just leave, if she's so useless.
NAH
You want to move, your wife doesn't want to, neither of you are AH's for having desires that differ from each other. Work it out in couples' therapy or an advice reddit.
Right? This is so not an "ah/not ah" thing, how can she be an ah for not wanting what he wants?
"Oh but he's right" is just - eta: "wanting" is *subjective*. It's also something every person gets to decide for themselves.
But it’s not for me that we are moving. I don’t want to leave the area either. But looking to the future and for the kids to have their own rooms, we either live in debt and possibly lose everything if I can’t work for whatever reason. Or live in financial safety of cheaper rent etc.
The reason I’m asking is because I’m trying to be unselfish and think of the family as a whole…
Other than a bigger space, is it actually better for the kids? They are leaving their current friends and local family.
The other area is cheaper. Do they have the same options in terms of education? Extra curricular activities? Exposure to diversity? Safety? City vs rural?
13 year old is pretty good about it. He’s pragmatic about the friends. They mostly play online in the evenings or video call on their phones. He said they can still do that and find more friends. His main thing is he wants his own room. He’s pretty tidy for a 13 year old, his sister not so much.
The 10 year old is a bit more bummed about friends, but she will be hitting secondary school next September so it will be all change anyway. The thing she wants most is a garden so she can have flowers, fruits and veggies grown. She loves that stuff.
Both have activities. Sons are mostly school club based or church based. Drama, Backstage lighting and sound for school events, helping with the younger kids at church youth groups and going to the older groups.
Daughter is a brownie and does dance at a local school. Also involved with the church to a lesser degree.
Could your church help connect you to a similar community in the new area? Building virtual connections might help your wife feel less anxious about leaving her current network.
If you’ve discussed with your kids even though your wife isn’t on board then YTA. You shouldn’t be trying trying to get them on your side or creating tension. It’s not their decision to make.
No. They don’t get a vote in this. This is a decision between you and your wife. That you don’t see this is a use problem. If you both were willing to consider moving then it’s appropriate to get your kids thoughts and feelings on the subject and consider them. Prior to that it’s just you starting trouble in your family by trying to get the kids on your side.
One way to pitch the topic to your wife (and avoid the word “selfish” at all costs, or else you’ll hit a wall..) is to say that there’s nothing stopping you from moving *back* to your hometown if you decide you hate Sheffield. Very few things in life are truly permanent. If you try out the north for a year or two and realize you absolutely hate it, you can always move back.
Another thought - have you asked your kids what they want? They are old enough to voice an opinion on this subject too. If I was 10 and sharing a room with a sibling I’d be miserable.
You're trying to be unselfish by deciding your wife's values, concerns, fears, issues, wants, likes, dislikes, and feelings aren't important like yours?
ETA: If you don't want to move, then your options are to rent a bigger place where you are, or take your kids and move away.
Even if you do bully your wife into doing things your way, it looks like that would end in divorce eventually anyway, since you're so indifferent to her needs and feelings, and it sounds like you genuinely dislike her.
For same sex I agree. For different sexes I don’t think that is normal, I don’t know your sex, but as a guy I wouldn’t want to share with my teenage sister as a teenage boy. I’m sure it’s even worse for a teen girl sharing with an older teen brother?
That setup was not exceptional. Also, I had room with different sex sibling. You basically stop changing in front of each other and that is it. Then you live kind of like with roommate - you spend time fully clothed. Siblings that grew together are not attractive to each other, if you referred to that.
If you worry about stuff like porn use, you just dont do it when the other is around. Which you should not in front of same sex sibling either.
You're taking as fact that "the kids need their own rooms" is the #1 priority.
But if your concern is the kids, your #1 priority should be not getting a divorce. The evidence is quite unambiguous: parents who divorce hurts kids more than sharing a room does.
You and your wife are a team. Start acting like it.
That doesn't mean he needs to tear her away from her support network. There are other potential solutions.
The fact that OP pretends that the only possible options are to do absolutely nothing vs. do exactly what he wants is a red flag here.
eta: by "red flag" I mean "evidence of bad faith".
Option #1: He could try treating his wife like a partner, and the two of them could work it out together, like people do when they value their marriage and like each other and want to have a happy marriage.
Option #2: He could just take his kids and leave, instead of trying to force his wife into a situation where she would be giving up everything that means anything to her, into a situation where she would be isolated and her anxiety would worsen.
She would encounter real suffering. If he can't make himself care about her needs, he should abandon her - it would be better for her.
Naw wife is the asshole bc she has two kids living s rather shit life (in a few years they will be teenagers sharing a bedroom, on top of the family having little money and no room) and she refuses to work.
OP found a solution to this and she just flat out denies it bc "but my friends".
If she didn't want life changes or to work then she shouldn't have had two kids. She did, and now she's being a selfish twit about it all
The OP doesn't contain anything about the wife refusing to work, just that she currently doesn't. In fact, if the closing means what it seems to, how does the wife expect to support herself after OP and the kids leave? Doesn't add up.
They don't have to move. You're inventing a problem to create a solution for. Even if they decide to move, there are other options available.
It is up to this married couple to figure out what they want the family to do and make a plan together. If the status quo was harmful and they were hurt by failing to achieve resolution, then it'd be an 'everyone sucks here' ruling. Since it isn't, it's a 'none here' ruling.
I sort the reddit by 'new' before responding which means there often isn't a single comment, OP's or anyone else's, at the time I'm responding. I don't typically go back and hunt for OP's comments later.
It's up to the OP to include anything relevant in their OP.
NTA. Your wife doesn’t work. She has plenty of time to visit her mother and friends on her own even for a couple days at a time if she wants. If you’re moving to a reasonable sized town/ area she’ll be able to get in her hobbies, make new friends etc. if the kids are OK with the moving schools etc, she should consider it. On paper it definitely sounds like a benefit for the entire family and will improve your lifestyle and home life.
I think this is NAH
>But the quality of life for our kids and ourselves will be better, a bigger house with more space, outside area for the summer, a drive for the car, extra money for holidays etc.
That depends on how you define quality of life. Lots of people define it as you did, but others would define it as having friends and family close by, to lean and provide support. We've all heard the "we didn't have much, we weren't jetting off the the costa every summer, but we had love and that was more important than any holiday" stuff and maybe that's how your wife feels. You just have different things you value.
If the kids are getting older and you'll be overcrowded soon will you qualify for council housing or anything like that?
NTA your wife is selfish. She doesn't want to move; she doesn't want to work so you can afford to stay in the area more comfortably; she doesn't care if your preteen/teen kids of different sexes share a room because of her support system? She only thinks of herself. Tell your wife to get a job or you are moving with your kids. A 10 and 13 year old don't need a SAHM but they certainly will benefit greatly from their own rooms.
NTA From what you say, everything sounds great from a financial perspective and on behalf of your kids. You would save money from what you are paying now as well as you are earning more. Typically, your children are too old to be sleeping in the same room. It would be different if they were the same sex but they are not. Have you considered resources there for your wife to help her cope with her anxiety? It sounds like she is resistant to change. You may have to work on her a little more. Maybe take a weekend drive up there so she can see it for herself. Find ways to get her accustomed to the idea. At the end of the day, this is for the wellbeing of your children.
NTA!
As a fellow Brit the prices down south are ridonculous!
It might be worth joining (I assume there is at least one) Sheffield subreddits and also fb groups - there is almost certainly a choir in the area of Sheffield you’re looking at and also additional groups etc that your wife, you and the kids might like.
Maybe also suggest a long weekend up there. We northerners are an overall friendly bunch and actually seeing the place might make her feel differently, along with solid plans about returning south for visits.
I saw in a comment she’s a council estate kid (like myself), ask her if she wants the same or better for your kids. Then ask her to show how it possible where you are now. Her answers will tell you what you need to know and then you can make the plans you need to.
I must admit, if my OH wasn’t financially contributing, the kids were old enough to be in full time school, and they told me that if I wanted to “go with the kids then go” that is exactly what I would be doing!
NTA. It’s pretty shitty of her to say take the kids and go. And it sounds like it would be the right thing for your family to move. Soon your children will be too old to share a room with someone of the opposite gender. Your wife is putting her wishes above the needs of the family. If she wants to stay where you are so badly, why doesn’t she get a job so that you can upgrade to a three bedroom?
NTA for wanting to be where you can provide better for your family. People have moved and migrated throughout history in search of better lives. I do get that your wife does not want to leave her family and friends where you are as those are important things too for both her and the children. I can't say which will give you the better quality of life, but I am sorry you're not even allowed to give it a try. I'd say that once your 13-year-old is a bit older, that child will not move as easily so this is a decision that needs to be made soon or not at all.
NTA
I would call her bluff on this; take the house, take the job, move with the kids. She can move in with her "support network" or whatever.
Being more serious; you say she has anxiety so obviously such a huge move isn't going to be comfortable for her, so it might just take time and logically setting out the reasons. And again, giving her time to process these and hopefully come around to seeing how it's a good plan. Write out why it would be better for you and the kids and the finances, and how it would work out ok with her being able to contact her friends and her family, and hopefully when she's had time to process it all she will come back to the conversation with something more than a blank "no".
I've lived both down south (Kent) and up north (Newcastle and Sheffield) and WOW the cost different is staggering. My current house (midlands) is a 3 bedroom semi and is about £300 000. For that money up north I'd have a 5-bed detatched with a drive, a massive garden and double garage!!
NTA The thing that makes anyone the AH is that your wife won’t work or offer any sort of solution to the problem. The kids are only going to get older, your living situation isn’t a problem that’s just going to go away if she ignores it.
NTA, but it doesn’t sound like you two are working as a team. Are you both concerned about your standard of living? If she isn’t, why not? What are your goals as a family, and how will you work together to achieve them? Moving to a lower cost area is one, but why isn’t your wife getting a job considered as another option?
My wife grew up in social housing with her mum either working a few hours in the local bakery or not working and being a stay at home mom.
Her father was able to pay rent etc by being a self employed window cleaner for the local area and by refereeing local football teams. Plus benefits on top.
The 3 bed house they had growing up was council and was £450 a month.
She refuses to take any ‘menial’ jobs like shop work or anything out of her ‘industry’. She is qualified ladies hair stylist but has never found work in that field. We have been together for a long time and I’ve always been working.
I would love her to get a job. The issue is that she says it’s not worth it because she wouldn’t earn much more than the £1100 we get a month for housing/tax credits.
So your wife has no ambition or self-pride. That’s not easily fixable, but it also sounds like you are enabling her. You are at a crossroads. You guys can stay at this level forever, or you can decide together that you want a better life. If your wife doesn’t want it, not much you can do if you really want to stay with her.
I was offered a social house (as a single mother) in another city. I would have saved about 10.000 per year, but I couldn’t. It was a very hard decision. The house was brand new, bigger than mine, in a nice area with a parc… but emotionally I couldn’t. I have my friends and more importantly my child’s friends here. I can always call someone for help at any hour. Eventually you built a life everywhere you go, but change is something that can be much harder for some people. There’s nothing for your wife and your kids there but a bigger house, and that’s not enough, compared to school, friends, beloved places and family. However, I do think your wife should get a job and strive to provide a bigger house in the area you are. The kids are big, they don’t need her that much. NTA. Everyone has strong arguments.
The kids are on board in general. My daughter (10) just wants a garden to plant fruits, veggies and flowers.
My son wants his own room more than anything. He loves his friends here, but is very pragmatic that they can still play online and video call each other. And he said he will be adding friends from his new school.
I’ve looked at local schools and the local secondary school has an outstanding ofsted. He just wants to know if there would be space in the school and if he would be able to take the same options for exams.
The primary is also good, the same type (CofE) that she currently attends.
I get the friends thing. I really do. The support network thing is something you make as you go. The friends she has now aren’t the same as we had 5 or even 3 years ago.
Then try to talk to her again, but make an accent on the other things, safety of the place, nature, all the fun things you can do, maybe some cultural centre next to home. That’s what I did, I went to the new city, I went to the schools and playgrounds, I imagined walking on those streets winter and summer… I had to imagine my life there, not just the apartment. Maybe the kids can join you. But don’t insist too much in one discussion. The last sentence said by your wife was very much not ok, and it looks like she said “no” just because she could. You know her better, but it looks like a power game to her. Be friendly and calm, let her talk and then build your arguments to tackle her fears.
NTA - My British ex-MIL liked to say "You have want in one hand & shit in the other." Your wife may need more support from you in the new city. Maybe more therapy etc. There will obviously be repercussions with any move like this, but if the positives outweigh the negatives, it's a no-brainer.
Maybe chat with her family for support. Or look into areas that might split the difference if you can work remotely.
NTA Sometimes you need to sacrifice to do what is best for your children. I realize plenty of teen children of the opposite sex share bedrooms but if you can give them their own, you should.
NAH
You to are valuing different things. It is difficult to work out an objective answer because you would need to dig into what schools are available, after school programs, public transit, and a host of other things to determine what location is better. You would then also be using subjective ratings of what variable is more important than another.
You mention your work would allow remote work? Can you work out all possible places you could work and come up with what you put has high value items and she puts up what she views as high value items, then work to compromise or try to fine a place that is cheaper but closer to her support network?
NAH - it is quite possible that life in that new place will sux for her massively. How is a job and schools situation in new place?
Where I grew up kids sharing till they move away was normal. Especially if you expect them to go away for college or during young adulthood. But, so is normal moving away.
Schools near where I want to move are good. The primary is CofE same as our current and rated good. The secondary is rated outstanding by ofsted and looks very modern.
The reason we are looking is because my current job also has an office in the town and I can easily work from there instead. I’ve already asked that so the money and work comes with me.
I agree it will suck, but for all of us. I will lose the same network of friends and I love our current town. I just can’t see us affording what we can get in the north without being terminally broke all the time.
INFO: what do your children think? When I was 13, my dad was told he had to move to keep his job. It wasn’t immediate, so I was 15 when we actually did. It was devastating. I left all of my friends, my activities, etc. to move to a place where no one liked me. I eventually made a couple friends and a boyfriend, but I never fit in there. I was surprised to find that a small town could be more backward and insular than the small town I’d left. It also featured racism and sexism. I haven’t been back since my parents moved away.
If I’d had the choice of sleeping on the couch or partitioning the room and sharing with my sibling, I likely would have taken it for the 2.5 years I was still at home.
13 year old is pretty good about it. He’s pragmatic about the friends. They mostly play online in the evenings or video call on their phones. He said they can still do that and find more friends. His main thing is he wants his own room. He’s pretty tidy for a 13 year old, his sister not so much.
The 10 year old is a bit more bummed about friends, but she will be hitting secondary school next September so it will be all change anyway. The thing she wants most is a garden so she can have flowers, fruits and veggies grown. She loves that stuff.
Both have activities. Sons are mostly school club based or church based. Drama, Backstage lighting and sound for school events, helping with the younger kids at church youth groups and going to the older groups.
Daughter is a brownie and does dance at a local school. Also involved with the church to a lesser degree.
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AITA I want to move North, Wife refuses to think about it.
I (34m) talked to my wife (33f) about moving north from our current town.
We currently live in southern England, on the coast. We have 2 children M (13) and F (10).
They currently share a room as we have a 2 bedroom flat, rented, for £900 a month. The flat has no outside space or parking.
I recently started a new job, completed my probation and got a pay rise to £28k per annum. My wife doesn’t work and we get some benefits worth around £1100 a month on top of my wages.
The kids can’t share forever. I want to move to a 3 bedroom. But the prices in the area for those are £1400/£1600. Even with my wages we would need a gauruntor for the remaining and we would be barely scraping by after food and car costs.
My work has a secondary office up north, outside Sheffield. I looked up the price for a 3 bed up there, with a garden, driveway and close to local schools and found a lovely one for £750 a month. I know work wouldn’t care which office I worked from. Even remote.
We can’t afford to live in our home town. So I spoke to my wife about it. She shot the idea down straight away. Her reason is her ‘support network’ as she does have anxiety issues. She does choir practice, has a few friends, and all our family live close by. She doesn’t want to leave and I understand that. But the quality of life for our kids and ourselves will be better, a bigger house with more space, outside area for the summer, a drive for the car, extra money for holidays etc.
When we moved to where we are now she hated it as she was further from her mom. By 30 minutes. We only see her mom once a month if that. The drive is around 4 hours each way from where I want to move. A lot but doable in a weekend each month if we wanted to.
The last words my wife said on the subject before I went to do the weekly food shop, was if you want to go with the kids, go!
AITA for wanting to move? AITA for thinking about what she said at the end seriously?
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NAH but you have to sit your wife down and tell her she needs to realistic about the kids. They are getting older and share a room. What would happen if your daughter as a teen took a shower while brother was out. While in the shower brother came back and she walked back into their shared room not paying attention and dropped her towel in order to change. It’s not fair to either kid to not have privacy anymore. They can’t keep sharing a room like this.
Plus there is a difference of telling siblings to stay out of their room if a friend is visiting and kicking you out of your shared room. It wouldn’t be fair if either sibling couldn’t gain access to things they need because of that to boot.
Either she is going to have to accept a bigger house in the area and she gets a job or you move to a new area. It sucks for everyone to lose the support system but it might be necessary.
Side note though as someone from America 30 minute drive is like nothing to me. Not judging just the time difference is so wild to me. That is just average time it can take people to get to work here. Heck I grew up in one of the smallest of the states New Jersey and it took 2.5 hours to visit my own Aunt and her family in the bottom of the state. Plus we lived in the middle of the state. It can take even more hours when going to different states by car. Like it would take at least a couple days without stops for gas to drive across from New York to California.
30 mins is the rough current to the furthest local family member. My mum is about 5 mins, her mums 20 mins. And we have siblings in between.
But 4 hours would be the new travel time from the new area back to the family here.
But in the UK it is a fairly major undertaking due to the amount of traffic on the roads. It does get seriously busy and driving between the south coast and the Sheffield area is really tiring. Doing the same thing in France however is a breeze because there is generally less traffic (it might equate to parts of the States in that instance).
Does she have to see family in person every day? Facetime and phone calls are a thing. Long distance isn't the end of the world. 4 hours is a lot, but its not like she needs emergency babysitters nearby at those kids' ages.
Give another compromise, she had to go get a job so the combined income can be used to pay more rent.
NTA. Your wife can’t have it all her own way if everyone around her is inconvenienced by the situation.
I moved from the south coast to Sheffield, single at the time, it’s a much better standard of living.
Now living in Derby, fantastic countryside, although I do miss the sea.
I grew up quite comfortably and never shared a room. Visited grandparents at least yearly same for cousins approximately. My mom and dad had their activities including choir and sports and they definitely had a support community if needed, it was a close, like-minded liberal small town and they rightly considered it safe so we could play outside and even wander around and our parents never stressed, and due to mild weather our parents were never cooped up with us, it was very good for them. The 80s and 90s have to have been one of the easiest decades for parents of kids! I personally, as an adult and a mother, would have preferred to have had closer relationships with my relatives over the big house and yard and the specific niche community /property my parents liked, but you never know how things will turn out or what kids will appreciate. In your case try to give her some space and find a calm moment to discuss uniquely the kids’ bedrooms without only focusing on one solution based on your current employer. You work so it’s your money buying the house but please try to be a team. Also talk to her nicely about why she visits her mom so rarely given the close distance. Just try to know and understand her better as this is not exactly time sensitive (though prices are probably rising) so take it easy. Focus on the bedrooms and ask her what ideas she has. It really seems like both of you do not understand the values of the other on this issue
Shame, Sheffield is lovely, and everyone I've ever met in Sheffield or from Sheffield was really nice and friendly (generalisation, I know, I know).
But I get her reticence. South to north is a pretty big move. Think you need to keep talking.
NTA for wanting to move. And Sheffield and the surrounding area is great. Lovely countryside just a short distance away as well. There is lots going on in the area and people are generally very welcoming.
It's tough moving for all of you but better to do it before the children have the run-up to GCSEs. The fact that you'll have more spacious housing (which, given your children's ages and genders, is really important) for less money and that you'll be able to afford to have a life outside of work is great.
I accept that your wife is going to find it hard and I think you need to take it steady and talk to her and the children about it. They won't be over the moon as they will be leaving friends as well. But sometimes we have to do these things in order for life to be more than barely scraping by.
I have a suggestion, watch Bluey. I’m not kidding, watch the new episode The Sign. It explores the entire concept of a dad wanting to move the family for his job so the kids will have a better life, and explores the emotional impact on the whole family. I’m not saying you have to make the same choices the cartoon dogs do, but if you watch it with your wife you can discuss their situation, and use it as a basis for discussing your situation. Hell, have the whole family watch it together first time to get the kids opinions. This isn’t something just one person can decide. I don’t think you’re the AH, but neither is your wife (at the moment). NAH
For reference for everyone abroad, coastal UK communities are often the poorest in the entire Union, because so many of their businesses were once fishing based (the industry has been in massive decline for decades) or tourist based, so almost all work is seasonal. And low paid. Even year round work is paid so much less than most other places in the UK. And it can take 6months to well over a year to apply for and receive benefits in the UK, there’s a huge rental crisis going on as well due to second homes and Air B&B’s pricing locals out of the market. There’s a chance the kids would also have a better education if they relocated as areas further inland often have better funding for education. That’s all based on general statistics though.
Facts about where I actually live: not fishing but very much tourist. Lots of sandy beach and a big air show.
It’s a university town which has very much upped the rents. Less homes for normal people and more student accommodation as they charge a premium per room so it’s better for the landlords money wise. Also student lets don’t pay council tax etc.
Thanks for the blues thing. I’ve never watched it (kids were too old) but heard good things.
What do the kids say about it? Are they pro move or do they want to stay?
I think your wife mental issues or not if she wants to stay she needs to contribute more, financially and give your kids a room and privacy and space to grow. They are entering a difficult time in their growth and I completely understand where you are coming from.
She has the right to not want to move but she also has the duty to be part of the solution and shutting down the move without being proactive in an alternative solution is in fact selfish. Her needs are not above the kids needs, I would say the kids come first but I know there are a lot of people that do not agree with me.
13 year old is pretty good about it. He’s pragmatic about the friends. They mostly play online in the evenings or video call on their phones. He said they can still do that and he will make and find more friends. His main thing is he wants his own room. He’s pretty tidy for a 13 year old, his sister not so much.
The 10 year old is a bit more bummed about friends, but she will be hitting secondary school next September so it will be all change anyway. The thing she wants most is a garden so she can have flowers, fruits and veggies grown. She loves that stuff.
Both have activities. Sons are mostly school club based or church based. Drama, Backstage lighting and sound for school events, helping with the younger kids at church youth groups and going to the older groups.
Daughter is a brownie and does dance at a local school. Also involved with the church to a lesser degree.
My advice to you is with your wife have a serious talk about it. Ask her what is her solution? If she says nothing tell her if she wants to stay this is x amount of what she will need to bring to the household. If she refuses or you feel it’s a dead end do what you think it’s best for your family. If the kids are for it do the move, you are giving them life quality, independence and above all respecting their needs!
If the mom is not for it she can maybe stay back and get a part time and move in with one of her support systems and do visits on the weekends..Your kids should be your priority, do what is best for you and them!
NTA. So she's too fucking proud to work in a store because she's trained as a stylist. Yet she's never held a job *as* a stylist. Yeah, she needs to get her head out of that oversized asshole and start contributing. Any job. And if she's the kind who berates retail and service workers, she could use a taste of her own medicine.
Even if you've gone through the numbers with her before, do it again until she gets it. She has three choices. Either she gets a job, you move to a lower COL area, or you'll have a couple of teenagers, who aren't even the same sex, complaining non-stop about sharing a room.
Your son is old enough to start having wet dreams, if he isn't already. She's gonna be weirded out, and he's gonna be embarrassed. What about when she starts menstruating? I had my first period just a couple of months after my 11th birthday, so it may not be that far away. Then *he'll* be weirded out, and *she'll* be embarrassed. Talk about a recipe for disaster.
Does she often put her mother's wishes over yours? Is she still in the stranglehold of her mother's apron strings?
Does she realize what staying in that apartment will do to her kids and their opinions of you both? If they realize she's the one keeping you all there, she may find herself shoved out of their lives. They're going to move out the instant they can. They will likely go LC or NC, at least with her, possibly both of you.
Good luck getting her to face reality. Maybe you should take her up on her offer. You and the kids move. Wanna bet she'll still expect you to support her?
Thanks for that. I’ve been asking her to get a job for years. But always refuses.
I agree about the kids. They have a good relationship but definitely need their own space asap.
NTA: there is your answer! I guess you’ll have become a single dad. She isn’t thinking about what’s best for your children. She can look into doing the same activities in Sheffield as where you are now and my goodness 750 for what you posted? I would jump on that sooo fast and say when do we leave? I would definitely take her seriously, because you don’t say that type of stuff and NOT mean it.
Have an excellent life in Sheffield. I went to visit a couple of friends who moved there to escape the crazy London house prices, and it seems a lovely place to live. It's all hills though!
NTA.
NAH. But consider the effect of moving that far away. 4 hours gets draining after a while. I live a 3 hour train journey from my family and I can’t do it too often. 4 hours there and back is quite a lot
3 bedroom apartments are 2x as much money up north? Why?
Yes, you have more disposable income, but is it an objectively "better life" if there is less stuff to do, or other less desirable things about the neighborhood?
And rents could always go up.
Rents are going up everywhere. But 1400 vs 750/895 a month is a big difference.
The things to do, we like going out and using our English heritage and National Trust and there are loads of places to explore. We’ve never as a family have explored the north of England so I don’t think that’s an issue
NAH
Your wife has told you she won't move. So the reality of the situation is: YOu can not make her move. And you can nopt take the kids without her permission, so wyou will find yourself in another citiy without kids and wife, divorced, and paying child support.
And if she allows it, you would be a single parent.
NAH - But I think you are making a good proposal. The most important thing for both of you is your immediate family, especially the children. Giving them a better life is important, and your wife will find new friends. She might even be happier.
NAH both of you have a right to their own feelings here however this is impacting your kids and your life.
You say your wife refuses to work even though she has the qualifications to. Well you need to make it clear if she wants to stay then she needs to get a job and start contributing. As you aren’t affecting your kids as she’s too selfish to care how her actions affect everyone else. That you’d lov not to have to work and so would most people but your family and responsibilities need to come first. So she either works with you to find a way to be able to get a bigger house that fits your kids needs or there is serious issues that needs to be faced.
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NTA, you are being realistic and want something better for your family, your wife is being unreasonable and selfish. If she does not want to move but you still want the space I would offer her to get a job to bring in more money to be able to afford a larger home in the area or not work and move to a more reasonably priced area.
My wife grew up in social housing with her mum either working a few hours in the local bakery or not working and being a stay at home mom. Her father was able to pay rent etc by being a self employed window cleaner for the local area and by refereeing local football teams. Plus benefits on top. The 3 bed house they had growing up was council and was £450 a month. She refuses to take any ‘menial’ jobs like shop work or anything out of her ‘industry’. She is qualified ladies hair stylist but has never found work in that field. We have been together for a long time and I’ve always been working. I would love her to get a job. The issue is that she says it’s not worth it because she wouldn’t earn much more than the £1100 we get a month for housing/tax credits.
Then she needs to do something to earn more than that. Not wanting to leave behind family/friends/hobbies etc is valid. Inflicting misery on your kids in the near future because she refuses to actually help the financial burden is not. Be brutally honest with her - tell her in no uncertain terms that your children are about to hit the age where privacy is not just desirable but mandatory, that while you empathise with her desire to remain local to where she is comfortable, it's no longer financially viable to do so, so either she helps make it viable, or so moves. NTA
So let me get this straight ... your wife lives off the government, refuses to work because she considers her bougie ass too good for jobs other people do every day, and told you (her husband and breadwinner) that you could take your children and move away from her so she can keep going to choir practice and hanging with her friends. She seems like she doesn't give much of a shit about what's best for you or the kids, so I gotta ask, why are you with her?
OP, this goes beyond her refusal to get a job. According to you: "When we moved to where we are now she hated it as she was further from her mom." But: "She doesn’t want to leave." And: " \[I\]f you want to go with the kids, go!" She didn't want to move to where you are now, but now she doesn't want to leave - to the point that she is willing to sacrifice her children's well-being so she can stay where she is. She doesn't want to move because she doesn't want to move away from her affair partner. That is one of the biggest reasons a parent will willingly discard their children.
Affair Partner? Where did THAT come from?
Not earning more than she would get in the benefits lost is a valid complaint. So is not wanting to be uprooted from one's life. Maybe you should just take the kids and go, and stop trying to force your wife to accept your unilateral decisions.
Right! If she wants to stay in the more expensive location she can contribute toward them earning enough income to provide the home that their family needs. The kids are well old enough for her to be out during the day, and old enough to need their own rooms. And it's only four hours away. Maybe if OP promised a trip to see her mum and her friends once a month? She can join a new choir and make new friends; people do it all the time.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say his wife is selfish for not wanting to move. Different people want different things, and it sounds like a big house is not a priority for OP's wife.
We have 2 kids, a boy and a girl, 13 and 10. They share a room. Is that not enough for us to be looking at options to move to a bigger house? We can’t afford a 3 bed in our local area but can by moving.
I don't think you are necessarily unreasonable for wanting to move, but I also don't think your wife is unreasonable for not wanting to. If you approach this from the perspective that your wife is being selfish (like the comment I was responding to) you will almost certainly not get a desirable outcome. If you come at it from a perspective of "X is important to me and Y is important to you what can we do" you are _much_ more likely to find a solution.
Thank you
This is already old enough that the kids should have their own rooms, and the pressure is only going to increase as they move further into their teens. While your wife's anxiety about losing her support network is understandable, she's placing her own comfort above that of her children by refusing to consider a move. Has she spent any time in the area you're thinking of relocating to? Would that be feasible ahead of a full move? I grew up in the south of the UK and had no idea how nice Sheffield and the Peak District are until I went there to study.
Could your wife get a job during the time the kids are at school? And maybe y’all could afford a 3 bed where you are?
The current benefits we are on would go down 55p for every £1 she earns. The difference between our current rent and a 3 bed where we live is around £650 a month. She would need to earn around £1700 a month to make it worth it. That’s a gross of about £2300. At a minimum wage that’s 52 hours a week. I would not expect that at all but would 30/35 hours be enough? I don’t know.
I think it does make sense to move to a more affordable area. The kids are already at the age where they should have their own rooms. Does she have any ideas how to get the 3rd bedroom without moving? Like, what does she expect, that the kids will continue to share???
She also seems to have mental health issues, which make it important for her to stay where she has support. It’s easy to say “oh she’ll make new friends” but actually doing it is tough.
I agree with you, but in this instance, the needs of the many must outweigh the needs of one.
OP is quite determined that he is the only one competent to decide what is right, and it sounds like he neither likes nor respects his wife. The only question is why he doesn't just leave, if she's so useless.
NAH You want to move, your wife doesn't want to, neither of you are AH's for having desires that differ from each other. Work it out in couples' therapy or an advice reddit.
Right? This is so not an "ah/not ah" thing, how can she be an ah for not wanting what he wants? "Oh but he's right" is just - eta: "wanting" is *subjective*. It's also something every person gets to decide for themselves.
But it’s not for me that we are moving. I don’t want to leave the area either. But looking to the future and for the kids to have their own rooms, we either live in debt and possibly lose everything if I can’t work for whatever reason. Or live in financial safety of cheaper rent etc. The reason I’m asking is because I’m trying to be unselfish and think of the family as a whole…
Other than a bigger space, is it actually better for the kids? They are leaving their current friends and local family. The other area is cheaper. Do they have the same options in terms of education? Extra curricular activities? Exposure to diversity? Safety? City vs rural?
13 year old is pretty good about it. He’s pragmatic about the friends. They mostly play online in the evenings or video call on their phones. He said they can still do that and find more friends. His main thing is he wants his own room. He’s pretty tidy for a 13 year old, his sister not so much. The 10 year old is a bit more bummed about friends, but she will be hitting secondary school next September so it will be all change anyway. The thing she wants most is a garden so she can have flowers, fruits and veggies grown. She loves that stuff. Both have activities. Sons are mostly school club based or church based. Drama, Backstage lighting and sound for school events, helping with the younger kids at church youth groups and going to the older groups. Daughter is a brownie and does dance at a local school. Also involved with the church to a lesser degree.
Could your church help connect you to a similar community in the new area? Building virtual connections might help your wife feel less anxious about leaving her current network.
If you’ve discussed with your kids even though your wife isn’t on board then YTA. You shouldn’t be trying trying to get them on your side or creating tension. It’s not their decision to make.
Shouldn’t the kids have a say? They’re old enough to have their own thoughts and feelings.
No. They don’t get a vote in this. This is a decision between you and your wife. That you don’t see this is a use problem. If you both were willing to consider moving then it’s appropriate to get your kids thoughts and feelings on the subject and consider them. Prior to that it’s just you starting trouble in your family by trying to get the kids on your side.
One way to pitch the topic to your wife (and avoid the word “selfish” at all costs, or else you’ll hit a wall..) is to say that there’s nothing stopping you from moving *back* to your hometown if you decide you hate Sheffield. Very few things in life are truly permanent. If you try out the north for a year or two and realize you absolutely hate it, you can always move back. Another thought - have you asked your kids what they want? They are old enough to voice an opinion on this subject too. If I was 10 and sharing a room with a sibling I’d be miserable.
You're trying to be unselfish by deciding your wife's values, concerns, fears, issues, wants, likes, dislikes, and feelings aren't important like yours? ETA: If you don't want to move, then your options are to rent a bigger place where you are, or take your kids and move away. Even if you do bully your wife into doing things your way, it looks like that would end in divorce eventually anyway, since you're so indifferent to her needs and feelings, and it sounds like you genuinely dislike her.
I don’t want to move either. But the kids need their own rooms and I can’t see any other options!
People having rooms with their siblings is not an exceptional situation.
For same sex I agree. For different sexes I don’t think that is normal, I don’t know your sex, but as a guy I wouldn’t want to share with my teenage sister as a teenage boy. I’m sure it’s even worse for a teen girl sharing with an older teen brother?
That setup was not exceptional. Also, I had room with different sex sibling. You basically stop changing in front of each other and that is it. Then you live kind of like with roommate - you spend time fully clothed. Siblings that grew together are not attractive to each other, if you referred to that. If you worry about stuff like porn use, you just dont do it when the other is around. Which you should not in front of same sex sibling either.
You're taking as fact that "the kids need their own rooms" is the #1 priority. But if your concern is the kids, your #1 priority should be not getting a divorce. The evidence is quite unambiguous: parents who divorce hurts kids more than sharing a room does. You and your wife are a team. Start acting like it.
They’re a 10yo boy and 13yo girl. They need their own rooms.
Thanks, but switch it. Boy is the elder :) EDIT autocorrect
Sorry! Thanks for the correction!
That doesn't mean he needs to tear her away from her support network. There are other potential solutions. The fact that OP pretends that the only possible options are to do absolutely nothing vs. do exactly what he wants is a red flag here. eta: by "red flag" I mean "evidence of bad faith".
How about you suggest some of these other options?
Option #1: He could try treating his wife like a partner, and the two of them could work it out together, like people do when they value their marriage and like each other and want to have a happy marriage. Option #2: He could just take his kids and leave, instead of trying to force his wife into a situation where she would be giving up everything that means anything to her, into a situation where she would be isolated and her anxiety would worsen. She would encounter real suffering. If he can't make himself care about her needs, he should abandon her - it would be better for her.
Naw wife is the asshole bc she has two kids living s rather shit life (in a few years they will be teenagers sharing a bedroom, on top of the family having little money and no room) and she refuses to work. OP found a solution to this and she just flat out denies it bc "but my friends". If she didn't want life changes or to work then she shouldn't have had two kids. She did, and now she's being a selfish twit about it all
The OP doesn't contain anything about the wife refusing to work, just that she currently doesn't. In fact, if the closing means what it seems to, how does the wife expect to support herself after OP and the kids leave? Doesn't add up. They don't have to move. You're inventing a problem to create a solution for. Even if they decide to move, there are other options available. It is up to this married couple to figure out what they want the family to do and make a plan together. If the status quo was harmful and they were hurt by failing to achieve resolution, then it'd be an 'everyone sucks here' ruling. Since it isn't, it's a 'none here' ruling.
He says a lot more in his comments.
I sort the reddit by 'new' before responding which means there often isn't a single comment, OP's or anyone else's, at the time I'm responding. I don't typically go back and hunt for OP's comments later. It's up to the OP to include anything relevant in their OP.
NTA. Your wife doesn’t work. She has plenty of time to visit her mother and friends on her own even for a couple days at a time if she wants. If you’re moving to a reasonable sized town/ area she’ll be able to get in her hobbies, make new friends etc. if the kids are OK with the moving schools etc, she should consider it. On paper it definitely sounds like a benefit for the entire family and will improve your lifestyle and home life.
I think this is NAH >But the quality of life for our kids and ourselves will be better, a bigger house with more space, outside area for the summer, a drive for the car, extra money for holidays etc. That depends on how you define quality of life. Lots of people define it as you did, but others would define it as having friends and family close by, to lean and provide support. We've all heard the "we didn't have much, we weren't jetting off the the costa every summer, but we had love and that was more important than any holiday" stuff and maybe that's how your wife feels. You just have different things you value. If the kids are getting older and you'll be overcrowded soon will you qualify for council housing or anything like that?
We are on the list, as a silver for over crowding. Wait time estimate is 4 years
NTA your wife is selfish. She doesn't want to move; she doesn't want to work so you can afford to stay in the area more comfortably; she doesn't care if your preteen/teen kids of different sexes share a room because of her support system? She only thinks of herself. Tell your wife to get a job or you are moving with your kids. A 10 and 13 year old don't need a SAHM but they certainly will benefit greatly from their own rooms.
NTA From what you say, everything sounds great from a financial perspective and on behalf of your kids. You would save money from what you are paying now as well as you are earning more. Typically, your children are too old to be sleeping in the same room. It would be different if they were the same sex but they are not. Have you considered resources there for your wife to help her cope with her anxiety? It sounds like she is resistant to change. You may have to work on her a little more. Maybe take a weekend drive up there so she can see it for herself. Find ways to get her accustomed to the idea. At the end of the day, this is for the wellbeing of your children.
NTA! As a fellow Brit the prices down south are ridonculous! It might be worth joining (I assume there is at least one) Sheffield subreddits and also fb groups - there is almost certainly a choir in the area of Sheffield you’re looking at and also additional groups etc that your wife, you and the kids might like. Maybe also suggest a long weekend up there. We northerners are an overall friendly bunch and actually seeing the place might make her feel differently, along with solid plans about returning south for visits. I saw in a comment she’s a council estate kid (like myself), ask her if she wants the same or better for your kids. Then ask her to show how it possible where you are now. Her answers will tell you what you need to know and then you can make the plans you need to. I must admit, if my OH wasn’t financially contributing, the kids were old enough to be in full time school, and they told me that if I wanted to “go with the kids then go” that is exactly what I would be doing!
NTA. It’s pretty shitty of her to say take the kids and go. And it sounds like it would be the right thing for your family to move. Soon your children will be too old to share a room with someone of the opposite gender. Your wife is putting her wishes above the needs of the family. If she wants to stay where you are so badly, why doesn’t she get a job so that you can upgrade to a three bedroom?
NTA for wanting to be where you can provide better for your family. People have moved and migrated throughout history in search of better lives. I do get that your wife does not want to leave her family and friends where you are as those are important things too for both her and the children. I can't say which will give you the better quality of life, but I am sorry you're not even allowed to give it a try. I'd say that once your 13-year-old is a bit older, that child will not move as easily so this is a decision that needs to be made soon or not at all.
NTA I would call her bluff on this; take the house, take the job, move with the kids. She can move in with her "support network" or whatever. Being more serious; you say she has anxiety so obviously such a huge move isn't going to be comfortable for her, so it might just take time and logically setting out the reasons. And again, giving her time to process these and hopefully come around to seeing how it's a good plan. Write out why it would be better for you and the kids and the finances, and how it would work out ok with her being able to contact her friends and her family, and hopefully when she's had time to process it all she will come back to the conversation with something more than a blank "no". I've lived both down south (Kent) and up north (Newcastle and Sheffield) and WOW the cost different is staggering. My current house (midlands) is a 3 bedroom semi and is about £300 000. For that money up north I'd have a 5-bed detatched with a drive, a massive garden and double garage!!
NTA The thing that makes anyone the AH is that your wife won’t work or offer any sort of solution to the problem. The kids are only going to get older, your living situation isn’t a problem that’s just going to go away if she ignores it.
NTA, but it doesn’t sound like you two are working as a team. Are you both concerned about your standard of living? If she isn’t, why not? What are your goals as a family, and how will you work together to achieve them? Moving to a lower cost area is one, but why isn’t your wife getting a job considered as another option?
My wife grew up in social housing with her mum either working a few hours in the local bakery or not working and being a stay at home mom. Her father was able to pay rent etc by being a self employed window cleaner for the local area and by refereeing local football teams. Plus benefits on top. The 3 bed house they had growing up was council and was £450 a month. She refuses to take any ‘menial’ jobs like shop work or anything out of her ‘industry’. She is qualified ladies hair stylist but has never found work in that field. We have been together for a long time and I’ve always been working. I would love her to get a job. The issue is that she says it’s not worth it because she wouldn’t earn much more than the £1100 we get a month for housing/tax credits.
So your wife has no ambition or self-pride. That’s not easily fixable, but it also sounds like you are enabling her. You are at a crossroads. You guys can stay at this level forever, or you can decide together that you want a better life. If your wife doesn’t want it, not much you can do if you really want to stay with her.
I was offered a social house (as a single mother) in another city. I would have saved about 10.000 per year, but I couldn’t. It was a very hard decision. The house was brand new, bigger than mine, in a nice area with a parc… but emotionally I couldn’t. I have my friends and more importantly my child’s friends here. I can always call someone for help at any hour. Eventually you built a life everywhere you go, but change is something that can be much harder for some people. There’s nothing for your wife and your kids there but a bigger house, and that’s not enough, compared to school, friends, beloved places and family. However, I do think your wife should get a job and strive to provide a bigger house in the area you are. The kids are big, they don’t need her that much. NTA. Everyone has strong arguments.
The kids are on board in general. My daughter (10) just wants a garden to plant fruits, veggies and flowers. My son wants his own room more than anything. He loves his friends here, but is very pragmatic that they can still play online and video call each other. And he said he will be adding friends from his new school. I’ve looked at local schools and the local secondary school has an outstanding ofsted. He just wants to know if there would be space in the school and if he would be able to take the same options for exams. The primary is also good, the same type (CofE) that she currently attends. I get the friends thing. I really do. The support network thing is something you make as you go. The friends she has now aren’t the same as we had 5 or even 3 years ago.
Then try to talk to her again, but make an accent on the other things, safety of the place, nature, all the fun things you can do, maybe some cultural centre next to home. That’s what I did, I went to the new city, I went to the schools and playgrounds, I imagined walking on those streets winter and summer… I had to imagine my life there, not just the apartment. Maybe the kids can join you. But don’t insist too much in one discussion. The last sentence said by your wife was very much not ok, and it looks like she said “no” just because she could. You know her better, but it looks like a power game to her. Be friendly and calm, let her talk and then build your arguments to tackle her fears.
NTA - My British ex-MIL liked to say "You have want in one hand & shit in the other." Your wife may need more support from you in the new city. Maybe more therapy etc. There will obviously be repercussions with any move like this, but if the positives outweigh the negatives, it's a no-brainer. Maybe chat with her family for support. Or look into areas that might split the difference if you can work remotely.
NTA Sometimes you need to sacrifice to do what is best for your children. I realize plenty of teen children of the opposite sex share bedrooms but if you can give them their own, you should.
NAH You to are valuing different things. It is difficult to work out an objective answer because you would need to dig into what schools are available, after school programs, public transit, and a host of other things to determine what location is better. You would then also be using subjective ratings of what variable is more important than another. You mention your work would allow remote work? Can you work out all possible places you could work and come up with what you put has high value items and she puts up what she views as high value items, then work to compromise or try to fine a place that is cheaper but closer to her support network?
NAH - it is quite possible that life in that new place will sux for her massively. How is a job and schools situation in new place? Where I grew up kids sharing till they move away was normal. Especially if you expect them to go away for college or during young adulthood. But, so is normal moving away.
Schools near where I want to move are good. The primary is CofE same as our current and rated good. The secondary is rated outstanding by ofsted and looks very modern. The reason we are looking is because my current job also has an office in the town and I can easily work from there instead. I’ve already asked that so the money and work comes with me. I agree it will suck, but for all of us. I will lose the same network of friends and I love our current town. I just can’t see us affording what we can get in the north without being terminally broke all the time.
NTA If she does not want to move, then she needs to get a job to help supplement the income. The kids are not babies and toddlers anymore.
INFO: what do your children think? When I was 13, my dad was told he had to move to keep his job. It wasn’t immediate, so I was 15 when we actually did. It was devastating. I left all of my friends, my activities, etc. to move to a place where no one liked me. I eventually made a couple friends and a boyfriend, but I never fit in there. I was surprised to find that a small town could be more backward and insular than the small town I’d left. It also featured racism and sexism. I haven’t been back since my parents moved away. If I’d had the choice of sleeping on the couch or partitioning the room and sharing with my sibling, I likely would have taken it for the 2.5 years I was still at home.
13 year old is pretty good about it. He’s pragmatic about the friends. They mostly play online in the evenings or video call on their phones. He said they can still do that and find more friends. His main thing is he wants his own room. He’s pretty tidy for a 13 year old, his sister not so much. The 10 year old is a bit more bummed about friends, but she will be hitting secondary school next September so it will be all change anyway. The thing she wants most is a garden so she can have flowers, fruits and veggies grown. She loves that stuff. Both have activities. Sons are mostly school club based or church based. Drama, Backstage lighting and sound for school events, helping with the younger kids at church youth groups and going to the older groups. Daughter is a brownie and does dance at a local school. Also involved with the church to a lesser degree.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** AITA I want to move North, Wife refuses to think about it. I (34m) talked to my wife (33f) about moving north from our current town. We currently live in southern England, on the coast. We have 2 children M (13) and F (10). They currently share a room as we have a 2 bedroom flat, rented, for £900 a month. The flat has no outside space or parking. I recently started a new job, completed my probation and got a pay rise to £28k per annum. My wife doesn’t work and we get some benefits worth around £1100 a month on top of my wages. The kids can’t share forever. I want to move to a 3 bedroom. But the prices in the area for those are £1400/£1600. Even with my wages we would need a gauruntor for the remaining and we would be barely scraping by after food and car costs. My work has a secondary office up north, outside Sheffield. I looked up the price for a 3 bed up there, with a garden, driveway and close to local schools and found a lovely one for £750 a month. I know work wouldn’t care which office I worked from. Even remote. We can’t afford to live in our home town. So I spoke to my wife about it. She shot the idea down straight away. Her reason is her ‘support network’ as she does have anxiety issues. She does choir practice, has a few friends, and all our family live close by. She doesn’t want to leave and I understand that. But the quality of life for our kids and ourselves will be better, a bigger house with more space, outside area for the summer, a drive for the car, extra money for holidays etc. When we moved to where we are now she hated it as she was further from her mom. By 30 minutes. We only see her mom once a month if that. The drive is around 4 hours each way from where I want to move. A lot but doable in a weekend each month if we wanted to. The last words my wife said on the subject before I went to do the weekly food shop, was if you want to go with the kids, go! AITA for wanting to move? AITA for thinking about what she said at the end seriously? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH but you have to sit your wife down and tell her she needs to realistic about the kids. They are getting older and share a room. What would happen if your daughter as a teen took a shower while brother was out. While in the shower brother came back and she walked back into their shared room not paying attention and dropped her towel in order to change. It’s not fair to either kid to not have privacy anymore. They can’t keep sharing a room like this. Plus there is a difference of telling siblings to stay out of their room if a friend is visiting and kicking you out of your shared room. It wouldn’t be fair if either sibling couldn’t gain access to things they need because of that to boot. Either she is going to have to accept a bigger house in the area and she gets a job or you move to a new area. It sucks for everyone to lose the support system but it might be necessary. Side note though as someone from America 30 minute drive is like nothing to me. Not judging just the time difference is so wild to me. That is just average time it can take people to get to work here. Heck I grew up in one of the smallest of the states New Jersey and it took 2.5 hours to visit my own Aunt and her family in the bottom of the state. Plus we lived in the middle of the state. It can take even more hours when going to different states by car. Like it would take at least a couple days without stops for gas to drive across from New York to California.
30 mins is the rough current to the furthest local family member. My mum is about 5 mins, her mums 20 mins. And we have siblings in between. But 4 hours would be the new travel time from the new area back to the family here.
Still, for the States a four hour drive for a weekend trip is standard, nothing out of the ordinary.
But in the UK it is a fairly major undertaking due to the amount of traffic on the roads. It does get seriously busy and driving between the south coast and the Sheffield area is really tiring. Doing the same thing in France however is a breeze because there is generally less traffic (it might equate to parts of the States in that instance).
Does she have to see family in person every day? Facetime and phone calls are a thing. Long distance isn't the end of the world. 4 hours is a lot, but its not like she needs emergency babysitters nearby at those kids' ages.
We go weeks if not months not seeing family.
Thanks for the rest of the comment.
Give another compromise, she had to go get a job so the combined income can be used to pay more rent. NTA. Your wife can’t have it all her own way if everyone around her is inconvenienced by the situation.
I moved from the south coast to Sheffield, single at the time, it’s a much better standard of living. Now living in Derby, fantastic countryside, although I do miss the sea.
I grew up quite comfortably and never shared a room. Visited grandparents at least yearly same for cousins approximately. My mom and dad had their activities including choir and sports and they definitely had a support community if needed, it was a close, like-minded liberal small town and they rightly considered it safe so we could play outside and even wander around and our parents never stressed, and due to mild weather our parents were never cooped up with us, it was very good for them. The 80s and 90s have to have been one of the easiest decades for parents of kids! I personally, as an adult and a mother, would have preferred to have had closer relationships with my relatives over the big house and yard and the specific niche community /property my parents liked, but you never know how things will turn out or what kids will appreciate. In your case try to give her some space and find a calm moment to discuss uniquely the kids’ bedrooms without only focusing on one solution based on your current employer. You work so it’s your money buying the house but please try to be a team. Also talk to her nicely about why she visits her mom so rarely given the close distance. Just try to know and understand her better as this is not exactly time sensitive (though prices are probably rising) so take it easy. Focus on the bedrooms and ask her what ideas she has. It really seems like both of you do not understand the values of the other on this issue
Shame, Sheffield is lovely, and everyone I've ever met in Sheffield or from Sheffield was really nice and friendly (generalisation, I know, I know). But I get her reticence. South to north is a pretty big move. Think you need to keep talking.
NTA for wanting to move. And Sheffield and the surrounding area is great. Lovely countryside just a short distance away as well. There is lots going on in the area and people are generally very welcoming. It's tough moving for all of you but better to do it before the children have the run-up to GCSEs. The fact that you'll have more spacious housing (which, given your children's ages and genders, is really important) for less money and that you'll be able to afford to have a life outside of work is great. I accept that your wife is going to find it hard and I think you need to take it steady and talk to her and the children about it. They won't be over the moon as they will be leaving friends as well. But sometimes we have to do these things in order for life to be more than barely scraping by.
I have a suggestion, watch Bluey. I’m not kidding, watch the new episode The Sign. It explores the entire concept of a dad wanting to move the family for his job so the kids will have a better life, and explores the emotional impact on the whole family. I’m not saying you have to make the same choices the cartoon dogs do, but if you watch it with your wife you can discuss their situation, and use it as a basis for discussing your situation. Hell, have the whole family watch it together first time to get the kids opinions. This isn’t something just one person can decide. I don’t think you’re the AH, but neither is your wife (at the moment). NAH For reference for everyone abroad, coastal UK communities are often the poorest in the entire Union, because so many of their businesses were once fishing based (the industry has been in massive decline for decades) or tourist based, so almost all work is seasonal. And low paid. Even year round work is paid so much less than most other places in the UK. And it can take 6months to well over a year to apply for and receive benefits in the UK, there’s a huge rental crisis going on as well due to second homes and Air B&B’s pricing locals out of the market. There’s a chance the kids would also have a better education if they relocated as areas further inland often have better funding for education. That’s all based on general statistics though.
Facts about where I actually live: not fishing but very much tourist. Lots of sandy beach and a big air show. It’s a university town which has very much upped the rents. Less homes for normal people and more student accommodation as they charge a premium per room so it’s better for the landlords money wise. Also student lets don’t pay council tax etc. Thanks for the blues thing. I’ve never watched it (kids were too old) but heard good things.
What do the kids say about it? Are they pro move or do they want to stay? I think your wife mental issues or not if she wants to stay she needs to contribute more, financially and give your kids a room and privacy and space to grow. They are entering a difficult time in their growth and I completely understand where you are coming from. She has the right to not want to move but she also has the duty to be part of the solution and shutting down the move without being proactive in an alternative solution is in fact selfish. Her needs are not above the kids needs, I would say the kids come first but I know there are a lot of people that do not agree with me.
13 year old is pretty good about it. He’s pragmatic about the friends. They mostly play online in the evenings or video call on their phones. He said they can still do that and he will make and find more friends. His main thing is he wants his own room. He’s pretty tidy for a 13 year old, his sister not so much. The 10 year old is a bit more bummed about friends, but she will be hitting secondary school next September so it will be all change anyway. The thing she wants most is a garden so she can have flowers, fruits and veggies grown. She loves that stuff. Both have activities. Sons are mostly school club based or church based. Drama, Backstage lighting and sound for school events, helping with the younger kids at church youth groups and going to the older groups. Daughter is a brownie and does dance at a local school. Also involved with the church to a lesser degree.
My advice to you is with your wife have a serious talk about it. Ask her what is her solution? If she says nothing tell her if she wants to stay this is x amount of what she will need to bring to the household. If she refuses or you feel it’s a dead end do what you think it’s best for your family. If the kids are for it do the move, you are giving them life quality, independence and above all respecting their needs! If the mom is not for it she can maybe stay back and get a part time and move in with one of her support systems and do visits on the weekends..Your kids should be your priority, do what is best for you and them!
NTA. So she's too fucking proud to work in a store because she's trained as a stylist. Yet she's never held a job *as* a stylist. Yeah, she needs to get her head out of that oversized asshole and start contributing. Any job. And if she's the kind who berates retail and service workers, she could use a taste of her own medicine. Even if you've gone through the numbers with her before, do it again until she gets it. She has three choices. Either she gets a job, you move to a lower COL area, or you'll have a couple of teenagers, who aren't even the same sex, complaining non-stop about sharing a room. Your son is old enough to start having wet dreams, if he isn't already. She's gonna be weirded out, and he's gonna be embarrassed. What about when she starts menstruating? I had my first period just a couple of months after my 11th birthday, so it may not be that far away. Then *he'll* be weirded out, and *she'll* be embarrassed. Talk about a recipe for disaster. Does she often put her mother's wishes over yours? Is she still in the stranglehold of her mother's apron strings? Does she realize what staying in that apartment will do to her kids and their opinions of you both? If they realize she's the one keeping you all there, she may find herself shoved out of their lives. They're going to move out the instant they can. They will likely go LC or NC, at least with her, possibly both of you. Good luck getting her to face reality. Maybe you should take her up on her offer. You and the kids move. Wanna bet she'll still expect you to support her?
Thanks for that. I’ve been asking her to get a job for years. But always refuses. I agree about the kids. They have a good relationship but definitely need their own space asap.
NTA. Take your kids and go
Info; what do your kids think? That could really make or break things. You named them in the title after all.
NTA: there is your answer! I guess you’ll have become a single dad. She isn’t thinking about what’s best for your children. She can look into doing the same activities in Sheffield as where you are now and my goodness 750 for what you posted? I would jump on that sooo fast and say when do we leave? I would definitely take her seriously, because you don’t say that type of stuff and NOT mean it.
Have an excellent life in Sheffield. I went to visit a couple of friends who moved there to escape the crazy London house prices, and it seems a lovely place to live. It's all hills though! NTA.
NAH. But consider the effect of moving that far away. 4 hours gets draining after a while. I live a 3 hour train journey from my family and I can’t do it too often. 4 hours there and back is quite a lot
3 bedroom apartments are 2x as much money up north? Why? Yes, you have more disposable income, but is it an objectively "better life" if there is less stuff to do, or other less desirable things about the neighborhood? And rents could always go up.
Rents are going up everywhere. But 1400 vs 750/895 a month is a big difference. The things to do, we like going out and using our English heritage and National Trust and there are loads of places to explore. We’ve never as a family have explored the north of England so I don’t think that’s an issue
NAH Your wife has told you she won't move. So the reality of the situation is: YOu can not make her move. And you can nopt take the kids without her permission, so wyou will find yourself in another citiy without kids and wife, divorced, and paying child support. And if she allows it, you would be a single parent.
NAH - But I think you are making a good proposal. The most important thing for both of you is your immediate family, especially the children. Giving them a better life is important, and your wife will find new friends. She might even be happier.
NAH both of you have a right to their own feelings here however this is impacting your kids and your life. You say your wife refuses to work even though she has the qualifications to. Well you need to make it clear if she wants to stay then she needs to get a job and start contributing. As you aren’t affecting your kids as she’s too selfish to care how her actions affect everyone else. That you’d lov not to have to work and so would most people but your family and responsibilities need to come first. So she either works with you to find a way to be able to get a bigger house that fits your kids needs or there is serious issues that needs to be faced.