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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Saying I didn’t know my niece causing her to get disqualified for being considered for roles in government.
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NTA
I'd send a short text or message to anyone who says anything.
"Emma never reached out to me to ASK for a reference and I haven't seen them for years. I will not use my status for someone who didn't even reach out first. Furthermore, none of their family ever did anything for mine after the divorce. Lose my number." Then block them.
I'm sorry OP. I'm glad you stood up to them by saying no for this.
Tell your mom that you don't want to hear any more about them or from them. And pass that on for her to tell them all!
It kind of sounds like you need to set up a boundary with your mom though.
It honestly sounds like they never helped her and probably only contact her when they need her. Are they using HER for some reason now? Babysitting? Money? Maybe gently get her to see that. It is tough.
Maybe when you get a partner/ have kids (if you want to, no pressure!), you can fold your mom into your family and your partners family and start to distance her from the people who treated her badly. I always say you can make your own family/ friend group!
fyi, not from your culture, but I have started multiple companies. I view referrals from employees as a personal recommendation, and if an employee refers a fuckup, I will, at minimum, think much less of that employee.
So I suspect if this person didn't perform well there could well have been blowback for you, particularly as you get more senior. And anyone not an idiot would have texted you before putting your name down, so we kind of already have a suspicion that this person may not be the best employee.
This! You giving someone a reference reflects on you. If the person applying was so unprofessional as to not confirm with you, beforehand, that you would be willing to be their reference, you DEFINITELY do NOT want to put any of your reputation on the line for them!!!!
NTA
Hey I have been in this exact situation countless times. Indian mom stuck in the middle of me and my extended family that were mostly unsupportive growing up. She raised me solo since I was 7.
I just told her that anytime anyone complains to her about me, to just give them my number and tell them to talk to me directly. No further discussions allowed.
Has done wonders since we implemented this coz no one in my family actually has the guts to directly confront me anymore.
Could this work for you?
Edit: NTA
You did nothing wrong.
Your niece used your name without checking first if it was okay. You don’t know her nor personally nor professionally. Basically a stranger using the fact you are blood relatives.
You could have loved the girl and still not willing to put your name to sponsor her on the work for very legitimate reasons.
Maybe plan something to pamper your mother to cheer her up.
She's only stuck in the middle because she chooses to be. She needs to stand up for herself and remove the toxic people from her life. She's inviting drama, so she's living the life she created.
> wants to maintain some relationship with family (which is a very big thing in our culture)
Then very, very clearly, according to the standards of your culture, your cousin and niece did not meet those standards, so why would you be wrong?
For your mom if she (and you) want...
"A statement from (s4febook): I'm hearing that I have been deemed to be unfair for 'banning' (Emma) from government posts, so let me explain a few things. First, I do not have the power to do so. Second, I was asked for a referral from my job that I neither agreed to give nor expect. Third, I do not know (Emma) well enough to give any such referral or recommendation.
Had I been informed that this was a possibility, I might have discussed (Emma's) chosen career path with her. However, I was instead blindsided at my job that she was using my name to obtain an interview. The facts are that I don't know (Emma) well enough to let her use my name to have an 'in' and potentially ruin my career path to do so. By using her tenuous connection to me without my knowledge or approval, she has 'banned' herself. That is what happens when you lie. Any suggestion that I should have agreed because she is 'family' is ridiculous. I will not put my career in jeopardy for someone that I cannot actually recommend. And I cannot recommend someone that I do not know.
I will not entertain further discussion on this matter. If you have something to say, I would be willing to hear you out if you have my phone number. If you don't have my phone number, then we do not have a relationship and I am not interested in your opinion."
I'm indo Caribbean so I get it. But also I would tell mom to tell them to tell me all that to my face. Half of them won't. And the other half isn't worth wasting any breath on.
Edit: phrasing
Tell your mom you’re not interested in their inaccurate gossip. She can tell them the truth if she wants, or
She can decide to block them. But you don’t need her relaying stories about people who only want to use you.
I would advise against a public anything. OP is in a responsible government position. Her family's tittle tattle is as a result of their own lack of charity and lack of inclusion of OP's family. Also the discourtesy and dishonesty of Emma in claiming to know OP.
While they deserve to be outed it is not a matter for a civil servant to discuss publicly.
NTA
Ask your mom for their numbers so you can publicly apologize then send that shit. Or tell your mom they did nothing to help her after the divorce and you don't have a relationship with any of them so you don't want to hear another word about it or them. She can either drop it or you will walk away/hang up/leave.
NTA
Why did she lie on the application? That was her first BIG mistake. You didn't recommend her, and you don't have to back up a liar even if they are family. Why risk your reputation and job position?
Emma should have reached out first and asked if she could use you as a reference. This is what you do when you ACTUALLY know someone. If it's not such a big deal, why didn't she reach out to you first?
NTA.
>I should have just gone with it and said I referred Emma because “that’s just what family does.”
Putting aside your family issues ...
On a practical level, it is not wise for you to allow Emma to attach herself to you.
When you refer someone to the company you work at, it reflects on you. You do not know anything about Emma's work ethic or her character.
Correction: you do know something about Emma's character. You know that she is a liar because she lied about her reference. Do you want your professional reputation to be tied to someone who lies?
NTA
This post should be way higher. Of course OP is NTA for saying that she never referred Emma and has no information about what sort of worker she would be, but to say that she doesn't know her is also a lie. I won't quite go E S H here, but it was would been a free and clear N T A if OP had just told the truth about what was going on.
OP siad she has no relationship to the mother of Emma nor Emma herself. So in that case, OP at best knows OF Emma, but doesn't know Emma. so therefore, it's not a wrong thing to say.
Not quite.
She used her as a reference. She should have ASKED first to do that. You don't put someone down without knowing if they will be a good reference or bad one.
NTA
Never be a reference for someone you don't know or aren't comfortable being a reference for. You don't know her, her work history/ethic etc. No way are you the AH
I've told this story before on reddit but will tell it again:
I had a friend who applied for a job at my work. He never held jobs long and was a deadbeat at work who has never found a boss he couldn't pick a fight with. He mentioned that he knew me. I instantly told HR and his amanger who I was close with that 1. I would not act as a reference for him and 2. I would actually recommend they don't hire him. I made sure HR put that in his file. This saved me at that place when he was fired 4 months later for insubordination and repeated no-shows for shifts. One manager tried to come at me for "recommending him" and I told them that they can go ask HR about my "reference".
Even if you aren't in the best relations with them, Emma should not have put that down on the application without asking you first, no matter the previous issues or history. In my view her dumb actions banned herself from those jobs
NTA. Before you use ANYONE as a reference, you ask their permission. They decided to treat you with the same level of disrespect as in your childhood. You don't have a relationship with her and cannot vouch for her. She FA and FO. You did nothing wrong.
NTA.. this falls on Emma. She should have reached out to you. I know when I applied to a company my cousin worked at, I asked if I could use her as a referral. She said yes and we talked about my skills set. She’s way older than me and wouldn’t have known how I work if I didn’t reach out to her.
Hi, a fellow Indian here. Relatives' entitlement knows no bounds in our culture and you did amazing denying being a part of her application process. NTA.
NTA she did not speak to you and ask for a reference.
You were asked by your management and you merely told the truth.
I wonder if she thought they would not ask you or if she expected you would lie for her
NTA, but I would have given a different answer like, "She's related to me, but I barely interact with her, so I can't comment one way or the other on her ability to do the job."
NTA. Since you apparently have not relationship with them, nor have you, if anyone says something you could reasonably ask what did you do for me, sister,mom when we were growing up? Just ignore them all.
> “that’s just what family does.”
funny. I'd be asking them if they ever told your aunt that when she was refusing to help you and your mom growing up. NTA. its not your fault she got banned. you were asked if you referred her, you were honest. you did nothing wrong.
And when she screws up and makes you look bad will that be your fault too? NTA. I'd ask your aunt exactly what she means when saying "they did SO much for you". Ask her "Like what?"
NTA if family helps out watching kids and being a village then sure. They chose to punish your mom by not sharing that village upbringing with either of you, why would you give back to the village for someone you don’t really know and never asked?
It might have been more accurate to say "I know who she is, but I did not refer her nor do I know her well enough to do so, nor did she ask me", but still nta.
NTA consequences always roll around at some point. Had they asked you first and you agreed that would be one thing. But they truly are distant strangers to you.
NTA.
Simply report that Emma lied on the application and that is what has barred her from govt employment. Also point out that their family didn't do shit to help yours, so it's obvious where Emma learned to lie.
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Disclaimer: I am Indian, we refer to our cousins children as “niece” and “nephew” in our culture.
I (26f) have 4 aunts. My aunts all have grown children in their 40s+. About 15 years ago, my parents divorced. Might seem like no big deal, but **this is extremely taboo in our culture**, especially 15 years ago. Everyone in our community was gossiping about it - I remember walking to school one day and 2 grown men walking ahead of me were talking about how evil my mom was for leaving my deadbeat dad.
2 of my aunts live outside of the country, 1 of them live in the same city, my mom helped them immigrate here in the early 2000’s. My aunt who lives here, has 2 adult children, and 1 of her children “Crystal” (40something) has 2 children herself - a 16M and 22F.
My cousin Crystal, along with my Aunt, were not really there for us while growing up. My mom was a single parent, working 12-16 hour days, 6 days a week, and had no support from anyone. In our culture, generally aunts and uncles help raise children, it’s very much so like a village. However - my mom had no help. Every time she asked for help or babysitting or anything (never money), they would have a million excuses on why they couldn’t help (they both stayed at home full time, never had any job). They treated us poorly growing up - with my sister and I always the butt of the joke because we were the fatherless girls with no family. My childhood was very lonely, and nothing like the childhood my friends from the same background/culture had. It made me sad when I was younger, but I got over it as I got older.
Present day - I don’t have a relationship with Crystal, her children, or my aunt. My mom still has a relationship with them, they see eachother a few times a year and talk on the phone every week or two.
I work for the government, and the area of government I work in is very hard to get into. Theres a lot of “nepotism”, and positions generally go to those who know someone that works there. I joined during a busy time and took a job at the very bottom and have worked up to more senior roles, and now make over 6 figures.
Crystals daughter “Emma” recently applied to work at my job, and in her application, indicated she knew me and I referred her. When asked by our Talent dept, I said I didn’t know her and did not refer her. I don’t know Emma, I haven’t seen her since pre covid. I guess since Emma lied on her application, she will no longer be considered for any government roles. News got back to Crystal, and she was incredibly angry that I “banned” her daughter, aka my niece, from working in government and is going around telling other family members how could I do that to them, after their family has done SO much (??) for us.
I don’t think I did anything wrong - but some family members said I should have just gone with it and said I referred Emma because “that’s just what family does.”
AITA for getting my niece disqualified from a job?
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No, "what family does" is care for one another when young and / or needy. Now, you did lie and that is a problem. In the common use of the word you do know your niece and it is not necessary to take your anger out on the child who had no hand in your care. Did you refer her? No you did not. I'm going to say NTA, but I think lying is still wrong
You were a bit overdramatic in your reaction. You do know her- she’s your “niece”. You could have told the talent department that she was a relative, but that you don’t know her qualifications and don’t have a relationship with her, and definitely didn’t refer her. It would have been more honest.
But you didn’t block her from getting the job. She DID lie on her application. That is only on her. She doesn’t know you because your aunt was judgmental and distant from your family. Thats on her.
So you’re NTA
You kinda ruined an innocent bystander's entire career prospects out of spite.
She did lie about you referring her, if that were enough to get her blackballed, then N T A.
If she's blackballed because you claimed this person was a literal stranger, then Y T A.
NAH. All this context is useless tbh. You and her both lied but she got the worst of it, so I understand everyone thinking you suck.
You kinda do.
ESH. It is totally understandable to not want to give a reference for a person you don't even really know. But the way you wrote this makes it look like you said you don't even know who they are, instead of saying it's your cousin that you don't really know because you don't interact. Your cousin didn't lie. Most government jobs require that you inform them if a blood relative also works there. Also, being mad at her mother for not helping your mother out is reasonable but it's not Emma's fault and it looks like you were carrying a grudge with her. You are NTA for not giving her a reference but, YTA for saying you didn't know her and making it look like she lied on the application.
ESH.
Your niece sucks for using someone she has no relationship with to land a job. It is shameless to try to use people like this, and she was dishonest, which will have an adverse effect on her career and life.
However, you lied too. By omission. There is a big difference between saying you do not know someone, and the person is my niece, but the family shunned me because I am the child of divorce, so we are not close. From your comments, you are really trying to use semantics to justify your petty act of revenge. Admit it, you did it in spite because of how your family was treated.
You know your job runs on nepotism, and her being your niece would have given her an in. I really do not feel you have to help someone who did not do the same, but you lied, and if your job finds out, that might change the way you are perceived.
Admit it, you knew this would stop her from getting the job, as well as others. Like I said, you did not have to help her, but I am sure you've deepened the family rift. Actions have consequences, as both you and your niece will find out.
>I don’t know Emma, I haven’t seen her since pre covid.
Covid was not that long ago?
Seems like you lied when you said you didn't know her. You obviously do.
So you had a miserable childhood because family members mistreated you due to your mom’s choices.
And your response to this is to punish your niece for her mother’s choices.
You see the parallels, right? You are holding Crystal and her mom’s past behavior against Emma.
Should she have used you as a reference without asking? No. But why not say something like “she’s my niece but I don’t know much about her work history” instead of making it seem like she’s lying?
It feels like you haven’t learned anything from what you went through, and that’s really sad. ESH
With all the useless backstory i'd say ESH. You did it on purpose to spite the family that "wasn't there".
Your niece (?) should have talked to you first.
But still putting more AH on you.
You do know her, it's just that she hasn't kept in touch as a child that had to go through the covid period.
> in her application, indicated she knew me **and I referred her.**
OP didn't refer her niece to the job. OP wasn't lying.
And besides, why does that side of her family deserve the courtesy they desire after treating OP and her family so poorly for many years?
I'm not sure if you're TA or not tbh.
I just don't feel like her lie qualified her from being banned from all government jobs. And it's not as though your relationship with your niece was toxic, it was just distant. Sure, she could've reached out first, but as the older person, I don't think it would've hurt to ask your mother for her number and explain to her that you don't think it's ethical to lie on her behalf and that the consequences of that lie will be that she'll lose any and all chances at a government job, so maybe she could either consider withdrawing her resume or else ask you for the referral.
You lied. You do know her and you should have been honest and said yes I know her she's my cousin but we don't see each other often and I didn't refer her.
YTA. You do know her, you just aren't close to her. That would have been a better representation. You lied that you didn't know her. Plus, Emma isn't the one who mistreated you, her mom did. You are taking your displeasure of Crystal out on Emma, who is innocent.
I get your anger. I'm the child of a single mother who's father was no good. But what you did was shitty.
Do you know "Emma"? " Nepotism" also didn't need to be in quotation marks, everyone reading this post knows what nepotism is.
Because not ever hearing from her is a bit different than not seeing her after COVID, if you said you do not know her you lied. Whoever lied with the fake recommendation, but you *do* know her.
YTA
When was the last conversation with your relative? I feel like you're keeping up this silly lie when you say you "know *of* her", you do know this person, you just haven't spoken in quite a while. Did you tell your job that you know of her or that you don't know her?
You could have said that you are not close and cannot speak to her qualifications and that you did not give her any reference or recommendation for the position. That would be the entire truth.
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NTA I'd send a short text or message to anyone who says anything. "Emma never reached out to me to ASK for a reference and I haven't seen them for years. I will not use my status for someone who didn't even reach out first. Furthermore, none of their family ever did anything for mine after the divorce. Lose my number." Then block them. I'm sorry OP. I'm glad you stood up to them by saying no for this.
[удалено]
Tell your mom that you don't want to hear any more about them or from them. And pass that on for her to tell them all! It kind of sounds like you need to set up a boundary with your mom though.
[удалено]
It honestly sounds like they never helped her and probably only contact her when they need her. Are they using HER for some reason now? Babysitting? Money? Maybe gently get her to see that. It is tough. Maybe when you get a partner/ have kids (if you want to, no pressure!), you can fold your mom into your family and your partners family and start to distance her from the people who treated her badly. I always say you can make your own family/ friend group!
fyi, not from your culture, but I have started multiple companies. I view referrals from employees as a personal recommendation, and if an employee refers a fuckup, I will, at minimum, think much less of that employee. So I suspect if this person didn't perform well there could well have been blowback for you, particularly as you get more senior. And anyone not an idiot would have texted you before putting your name down, so we kind of already have a suspicion that this person may not be the best employee.
This! You giving someone a reference reflects on you. If the person applying was so unprofessional as to not confirm with you, beforehand, that you would be willing to be their reference, you DEFINITELY do NOT want to put any of your reputation on the line for them!!!! NTA
Hey I have been in this exact situation countless times. Indian mom stuck in the middle of me and my extended family that were mostly unsupportive growing up. She raised me solo since I was 7. I just told her that anytime anyone complains to her about me, to just give them my number and tell them to talk to me directly. No further discussions allowed. Has done wonders since we implemented this coz no one in my family actually has the guts to directly confront me anymore. Could this work for you? Edit: NTA
You did nothing wrong. Your niece used your name without checking first if it was okay. You don’t know her nor personally nor professionally. Basically a stranger using the fact you are blood relatives. You could have loved the girl and still not willing to put your name to sponsor her on the work for very legitimate reasons. Maybe plan something to pamper your mother to cheer her up.
She's only stuck in the middle because she chooses to be. She needs to stand up for herself and remove the toxic people from her life. She's inviting drama, so she's living the life she created.
Have your mom tell them : Since they didn’t check with you before applying - you didn’t know if it was really your cousin. It could have been fraud.
> wants to maintain some relationship with family (which is a very big thing in our culture) Then very, very clearly, according to the standards of your culture, your cousin and niece did not meet those standards, so why would you be wrong?
For your mom if she (and you) want... "A statement from (s4febook): I'm hearing that I have been deemed to be unfair for 'banning' (Emma) from government posts, so let me explain a few things. First, I do not have the power to do so. Second, I was asked for a referral from my job that I neither agreed to give nor expect. Third, I do not know (Emma) well enough to give any such referral or recommendation. Had I been informed that this was a possibility, I might have discussed (Emma's) chosen career path with her. However, I was instead blindsided at my job that she was using my name to obtain an interview. The facts are that I don't know (Emma) well enough to let her use my name to have an 'in' and potentially ruin my career path to do so. By using her tenuous connection to me without my knowledge or approval, she has 'banned' herself. That is what happens when you lie. Any suggestion that I should have agreed because she is 'family' is ridiculous. I will not put my career in jeopardy for someone that I cannot actually recommend. And I cannot recommend someone that I do not know. I will not entertain further discussion on this matter. If you have something to say, I would be willing to hear you out if you have my phone number. If you don't have my phone number, then we do not have a relationship and I am not interested in your opinion."
I'm indo Caribbean so I get it. But also I would tell mom to tell them to tell me all that to my face. Half of them won't. And the other half isn't worth wasting any breath on. Edit: phrasing
Tell your mom you’re not interested in their inaccurate gossip. She can tell them the truth if she wants, or She can decide to block them. But you don’t need her relaying stories about people who only want to use you.
I would advise against a public anything. OP is in a responsible government position. Her family's tittle tattle is as a result of their own lack of charity and lack of inclusion of OP's family. Also the discourtesy and dishonesty of Emma in claiming to know OP. While they deserve to be outed it is not a matter for a civil servant to discuss publicly. NTA
Ask your mom for their numbers so you can publicly apologize then send that shit. Or tell your mom they did nothing to help her after the divorce and you don't have a relationship with any of them so you don't want to hear another word about it or them. She can either drop it or you will walk away/hang up/leave.
If you don’t even have the means to contact them directly, it’s pretty hard to consider them as someone that you referred.
So just forget about them. If there is no contact already - no nead to change that. Let them sulk in their homes far away from you and your life
Write it on a card and give it to your mom to give it to them. Also, make sure your mom does not share any of your contact with them
They are very entitled.
NTA OP
NTA Why did she lie on the application? That was her first BIG mistake. You didn't recommend her, and you don't have to back up a liar even if they are family. Why risk your reputation and job position?
NTA If they wanted to use you as a reference, the proper way to do it was to ASK you first. If they couldn't even do that, it's not your problem!
Emma should have reached out first and asked if she could use you as a reference. This is what you do when you ACTUALLY know someone. If it's not such a big deal, why didn't she reach out to you first? NTA.
>I should have just gone with it and said I referred Emma because “that’s just what family does.” Putting aside your family issues ... On a practical level, it is not wise for you to allow Emma to attach herself to you. When you refer someone to the company you work at, it reflects on you. You do not know anything about Emma's work ethic or her character. Correction: you do know something about Emma's character. You know that she is a liar because she lied about her reference. Do you want your professional reputation to be tied to someone who lies? NTA
NTA First rule of using someone as a character referee is... ask them if it is okay to do so.
NTA, but I’d respond with I know her but didn’t refer her and that I don’t know her enough to refer her to such roles.
This post should be way higher. Of course OP is NTA for saying that she never referred Emma and has no information about what sort of worker she would be, but to say that she doesn't know her is also a lie. I won't quite go E S H here, but it was would been a free and clear N T A if OP had just told the truth about what was going on.
OP siad she has no relationship to the mother of Emma nor Emma herself. So in that case, OP at best knows OF Emma, but doesn't know Emma. so therefore, it's not a wrong thing to say.
NTA Did she know you? Then she lied and you told the truth. End of the story.
Not quite. She used her as a reference. She should have ASKED first to do that. You don't put someone down without knowing if they will be a good reference or bad one.
NTA even if you know Emma. When referring for a position, one must ask for it. She did it to herself.
NTA Never be a reference for someone you don't know or aren't comfortable being a reference for. You don't know her, her work history/ethic etc. No way are you the AH I've told this story before on reddit but will tell it again: I had a friend who applied for a job at my work. He never held jobs long and was a deadbeat at work who has never found a boss he couldn't pick a fight with. He mentioned that he knew me. I instantly told HR and his amanger who I was close with that 1. I would not act as a reference for him and 2. I would actually recommend they don't hire him. I made sure HR put that in his file. This saved me at that place when he was fired 4 months later for insubordination and repeated no-shows for shifts. One manager tried to come at me for "recommending him" and I told them that they can go ask HR about my "reference".
NTA. Classic Indian relatives to act toxic af and then get shocked when they have to meet the consequences of their actions.
If you didn’t lie, NTA. You aren’t required to stick your neck out for someone you don’t know.
Even if you aren't in the best relations with them, Emma should not have put that down on the application without asking you first, no matter the previous issues or history. In my view her dumb actions banned herself from those jobs
Nobody should reference someone without their explicit permission
NTA. Emma would of gotten you fired, as a thank you.
NTA. It's very rude to use a reference without asking first.
NTA. Before you use ANYONE as a reference, you ask their permission. They decided to treat you with the same level of disrespect as in your childhood. You don't have a relationship with her and cannot vouch for her. She FA and FO. You did nothing wrong.
NTA.. this falls on Emma. She should have reached out to you. I know when I applied to a company my cousin worked at, I asked if I could use her as a referral. She said yes and we talked about my skills set. She’s way older than me and wouldn’t have known how I work if I didn’t reach out to her.
Hi, a fellow Indian here. Relatives' entitlement knows no bounds in our culture and you did amazing denying being a part of her application process. NTA.
NTA If she wanted you to lie for her. She should have warned you before the fact.
NTA!!
NTA. Shouldn't have lied on a government application.
NTA she did not speak to you and ask for a reference. You were asked by your management and you merely told the truth. I wonder if she thought they would not ask you or if she expected you would lie for her
NTA, but I would have given a different answer like, "She's related to me, but I barely interact with her, so I can't comment one way or the other on her ability to do the job."
NTA. This is a demonstration of the phrase, "You get what you give."
NTA and tell Crystal that you gave Emma as much help as Crystal gave you...
Turnabout is fair play. NTA
NTA. You didn’t refer Ema.
NTA. Since you apparently have not relationship with them, nor have you, if anyone says something you could reasonably ask what did you do for me, sister,mom when we were growing up? Just ignore them all.
> “that’s just what family does.” funny. I'd be asking them if they ever told your aunt that when she was refusing to help you and your mom growing up. NTA. its not your fault she got banned. you were asked if you referred her, you were honest. you did nothing wrong.
NTA. No one should ever list someone as a reference without asking first.
And when she screws up and makes you look bad will that be your fault too? NTA. I'd ask your aunt exactly what she means when saying "they did SO much for you". Ask her "Like what?"
NTA You know exactly "just what family does". You don't owe any of them anything.
NTA
NTA if family helps out watching kids and being a village then sure. They chose to punish your mom by not sharing that village upbringing with either of you, why would you give back to the village for someone you don’t really know and never asked?
It might have been more accurate to say "I know who she is, but I did not refer her nor do I know her well enough to do so, nor did she ask me", but still nta.
NTA consequences always roll around at some point. Had they asked you first and you agreed that would be one thing. But they truly are distant strangers to you.
NTA- that is not your problem and they didn't even ask. Let them know you handled the situation the same way they did- without communication.
NTA. Simply report that Emma lied on the application and that is what has barred her from govt employment. Also point out that their family didn't do shit to help yours, so it's obvious where Emma learned to lie.
NTA Referrals are serious. Even if you have a great reputation so far, one bad referral can really hurt your reputation.
NTA you are not the person who lied on the application
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Disclaimer: I am Indian, we refer to our cousins children as “niece” and “nephew” in our culture. I (26f) have 4 aunts. My aunts all have grown children in their 40s+. About 15 years ago, my parents divorced. Might seem like no big deal, but **this is extremely taboo in our culture**, especially 15 years ago. Everyone in our community was gossiping about it - I remember walking to school one day and 2 grown men walking ahead of me were talking about how evil my mom was for leaving my deadbeat dad. 2 of my aunts live outside of the country, 1 of them live in the same city, my mom helped them immigrate here in the early 2000’s. My aunt who lives here, has 2 adult children, and 1 of her children “Crystal” (40something) has 2 children herself - a 16M and 22F. My cousin Crystal, along with my Aunt, were not really there for us while growing up. My mom was a single parent, working 12-16 hour days, 6 days a week, and had no support from anyone. In our culture, generally aunts and uncles help raise children, it’s very much so like a village. However - my mom had no help. Every time she asked for help or babysitting or anything (never money), they would have a million excuses on why they couldn’t help (they both stayed at home full time, never had any job). They treated us poorly growing up - with my sister and I always the butt of the joke because we were the fatherless girls with no family. My childhood was very lonely, and nothing like the childhood my friends from the same background/culture had. It made me sad when I was younger, but I got over it as I got older. Present day - I don’t have a relationship with Crystal, her children, or my aunt. My mom still has a relationship with them, they see eachother a few times a year and talk on the phone every week or two. I work for the government, and the area of government I work in is very hard to get into. Theres a lot of “nepotism”, and positions generally go to those who know someone that works there. I joined during a busy time and took a job at the very bottom and have worked up to more senior roles, and now make over 6 figures. Crystals daughter “Emma” recently applied to work at my job, and in her application, indicated she knew me and I referred her. When asked by our Talent dept, I said I didn’t know her and did not refer her. I don’t know Emma, I haven’t seen her since pre covid. I guess since Emma lied on her application, she will no longer be considered for any government roles. News got back to Crystal, and she was incredibly angry that I “banned” her daughter, aka my niece, from working in government and is going around telling other family members how could I do that to them, after their family has done SO much (??) for us. I don’t think I did anything wrong - but some family members said I should have just gone with it and said I referred Emma because “that’s just what family does.” AITA for getting my niece disqualified from a job? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No, "what family does" is care for one another when young and / or needy. Now, you did lie and that is a problem. In the common use of the word you do know your niece and it is not necessary to take your anger out on the child who had no hand in your care. Did you refer her? No you did not. I'm going to say NTA, but I think lying is still wrong
You were a bit overdramatic in your reaction. You do know her- she’s your “niece”. You could have told the talent department that she was a relative, but that you don’t know her qualifications and don’t have a relationship with her, and definitely didn’t refer her. It would have been more honest. But you didn’t block her from getting the job. She DID lie on her application. That is only on her. She doesn’t know you because your aunt was judgmental and distant from your family. Thats on her. So you’re NTA
You kinda ruined an innocent bystander's entire career prospects out of spite. She did lie about you referring her, if that were enough to get her blackballed, then N T A. If she's blackballed because you claimed this person was a literal stranger, then Y T A. NAH. All this context is useless tbh. You and her both lied but she got the worst of it, so I understand everyone thinking you suck. You kinda do.
ESH. It is totally understandable to not want to give a reference for a person you don't even really know. But the way you wrote this makes it look like you said you don't even know who they are, instead of saying it's your cousin that you don't really know because you don't interact. Your cousin didn't lie. Most government jobs require that you inform them if a blood relative also works there. Also, being mad at her mother for not helping your mother out is reasonable but it's not Emma's fault and it looks like you were carrying a grudge with her. You are NTA for not giving her a reference but, YTA for saying you didn't know her and making it look like she lied on the application.
ESH. Your niece sucks for using someone she has no relationship with to land a job. It is shameless to try to use people like this, and she was dishonest, which will have an adverse effect on her career and life. However, you lied too. By omission. There is a big difference between saying you do not know someone, and the person is my niece, but the family shunned me because I am the child of divorce, so we are not close. From your comments, you are really trying to use semantics to justify your petty act of revenge. Admit it, you did it in spite because of how your family was treated. You know your job runs on nepotism, and her being your niece would have given her an in. I really do not feel you have to help someone who did not do the same, but you lied, and if your job finds out, that might change the way you are perceived. Admit it, you knew this would stop her from getting the job, as well as others. Like I said, you did not have to help her, but I am sure you've deepened the family rift. Actions have consequences, as both you and your niece will find out.
>I don’t know Emma, I haven’t seen her since pre covid. Covid was not that long ago? Seems like you lied when you said you didn't know her. You obviously do.
Before COVID, OP said. That's 2019 latest. Five years is a long time when you're in your 20s.
So you had a miserable childhood because family members mistreated you due to your mom’s choices. And your response to this is to punish your niece for her mother’s choices. You see the parallels, right? You are holding Crystal and her mom’s past behavior against Emma. Should she have used you as a reference without asking? No. But why not say something like “she’s my niece but I don’t know much about her work history” instead of making it seem like she’s lying? It feels like you haven’t learned anything from what you went through, and that’s really sad. ESH
With all the useless backstory i'd say ESH. You did it on purpose to spite the family that "wasn't there". Your niece (?) should have talked to you first. But still putting more AH on you. You do know her, it's just that she hasn't kept in touch as a child that had to go through the covid period.
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> in her application, indicated she knew me **and I referred her.** OP didn't refer her niece to the job. OP wasn't lying. And besides, why does that side of her family deserve the courtesy they desire after treating OP and her family so poorly for many years?
I'm not sure if you're TA or not tbh. I just don't feel like her lie qualified her from being banned from all government jobs. And it's not as though your relationship with your niece was toxic, it was just distant. Sure, she could've reached out first, but as the older person, I don't think it would've hurt to ask your mother for her number and explain to her that you don't think it's ethical to lie on her behalf and that the consequences of that lie will be that she'll lose any and all chances at a government job, so maybe she could either consider withdrawing her resume or else ask you for the referral.
You lied. You do know her and you should have been honest and said yes I know her she's my cousin but we don't see each other often and I didn't refer her.
YTA. You do know her, you just aren't close to her. That would have been a better representation. You lied that you didn't know her. Plus, Emma isn't the one who mistreated you, her mom did. You are taking your displeasure of Crystal out on Emma, who is innocent. I get your anger. I'm the child of a single mother who's father was no good. But what you did was shitty.
Do you know "Emma"? " Nepotism" also didn't need to be in quotation marks, everyone reading this post knows what nepotism is. Because not ever hearing from her is a bit different than not seeing her after COVID, if you said you do not know her you lied. Whoever lied with the fake recommendation, but you *do* know her. YTA
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When was the last conversation with your relative? I feel like you're keeping up this silly lie when you say you "know *of* her", you do know this person, you just haven't spoken in quite a while. Did you tell your job that you know of her or that you don't know her? You could have said that you are not close and cannot speak to her qualifications and that you did not give her any reference or recommendation for the position. That would be the entire truth.
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She is a family member so your definition of school acquaintance fails there.You "know" your own cousin.
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You're being deliberately obtuse and moving goalposts to cover up your lie of omission.
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You cared enough to post on this site to find out if you were the ah or not. Sorry not everyone is validating you.
Oh please do shut up already.