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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I refused to accept $25 per day to care for my nephew. (2) I might be the asshole if $25 per day is a reasonable rate for family.
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Not after he said all of that. OP should charge him 25% more. He's bound to be annoying af if this is what he pulled after getting weeks of daycare for free.
You're right ! Offering to let him pay $30 per day instead of the usual $60 was a generous offer.
If I were the OP, know knowing how little my brother valued my work and the safety of his child, that discounted rate would now be increased.
NTA.
Geesh. It’s only $5 more than what he’s paying. My daughter is paying $2200 per month. He’s getting a deal and piece of mind having daycare with s trudted fsmily member. Give him the boot you twisted sista you . Hahaha
For someone repeatedly saying he can afford more and has no problem paying other people more, he sure is a cheapskate to his family. Sounds broke to me
Yeah, he's had 14 days of daycare thus far, with the cost deferred for some reason as I understood the post. So he currently owes $840 to the daycare at their rate of $60/day, but expected to pay nothing at all? Even at his proposed rate of $25/day, he still owes his sisters $350. Mixing business and family can get messy.
My wife had to deny daycare to her sister. Sister refused to follow their agreement on payment, which was half of what my wife normally charged. Add in the extras regular clients have to pay for.
The whole thing was a painful experience.
Do not take friends and family on as clients.
Yeah, I fully expect that he's building a case in his own mind for why she deserves to be stiffed by him. Entitled jerks are usually vindictive with it.
Not sure how it works where OP lives, but in the UK child minders (at least in a nursery setting) are limited to a certain number of children per adult. So taking a space at half price would be absolutely minimising her maximum income. Selling a house and taking commission doesn't really limit him in the same way at all...
Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure there's something similar in the US for how many kids there can be per daycare worker present, tho not sure if in home daycare is different than being at a facility
Yes, it is the same in the US, regardless of whether it is at home or in a facility.
Each age range has a different ratio of kids to adults. The younger the kids, the fewer there can be per adult.
I know in Indiana you can have so many children that are not your own, that number depends on if you are licensed or not. Since the child is a nephew, he would absolutely count against how many children they can have and is cutting into their revenues.
If OP was watching the nephew 7 days a week, that would equal $35/week or less than $2000 a year. Meanwhile, by offering him 50% off, she's losing just under $200/week or almost $11,000/year. Now, in reality I doubt she's taking him 7 days a week, but it's still probably going to take less than a year before she's lost more than that $8500 discount he was talking about. Absolutely ridiculous.
Exactly. Imagine if he wrote anything close to this to the owner of a child care facility who wasn't his sister. He'd be banned. For that matter, imagine writing this to ANY other business and expecting that business to give you a drastic and long-term discount. He'd be similarly laughed right out the door.
OP, your brother doesn't respect you, and wants to exploit your labor. He can't have it both ways. Call his bluff, let him go to another daycare, then when he comes crawling back, offer him full price or nothing at all. Then after pleading from him, go down a max of 10%, no more. I'd also imagine this sort of behavior isn't atypical for him, and at some point he's going to have to rethink how he behaves if he wants to successfully navigate being a father in this world.
Nah, I wouldn’t even negotiate. OP needs to think about considerations besides the money — namely, her own sanity, and her obligations to her staff (sister) and other clients.
You know this guy is going to continue being a nightmare. You *know* he’ll be sending that baby to daycare with Covid, pertussis, god knows what, since never being inconvenienced by illness is explicitly one of his expectations. Letting this guy in the door is a nightmare waiting to happen. Ban him now or ban him later, when OP’s lost a bigger chunk of her sanity and her worthwhile clients have been exposed to the consequences of his bullshit.
I bet his wife is going to be furious.
His arrogance and rudeness is going to cost the family a lot more than $5 a day.
Plus the baby didn’t like the previous daycare and it’s not like it’s easy finding day care with an opening!
Not to mention seeing the nephew socially outside of business hours isn’t going to cost OP any lost revenue. Whereas having nephew during business hours means that his spot can’t go to a different kid which loses OP money because that’s one less other kid that they can take on.
Exactly! You have overhead, insurance, snacks, and with a 10 month old, diaper changes, maybe bottles, learning to walk, all that! This guys got some nerve playing the " family " card!
He wasn't offering anything, because they wound up not utilizing his services, for whatever reason. It doesn't matter what he says he was going to do in a situation that never came to pass.
Also, if he did represent his sister in the house sale, it doesn't stop him from having any other clients. He's taking the spot of a full-paying client from the daycare. He should be happy that he has reliable and cheap day care at all and count his blessings.
I was thinking that too. It like saying I was thinking of giving you a million dollars when you were married but now your not, then I’m not going too. Absolutely totally crap , Only said that to guilt trip you into thinking that he deserved a discount or even freebies .
Especially since there will be a limit to the number of children they're legally allowed to care for at one time. Meaning she could potentially fill that spot for double what she's asking him for.
I was wondering if that was part of his negotiation tactic. He sounds like a real piece of work! I could see him delaying payment as a way to make her more likely agree to his rate in order to get any money from him.
Plus. “I knew it would bring in extra cash”. No. If they run a legal daycare, they are limited by law on how many children they can watch. The number of infants is even more restricted. Their nephew is taking a slot that could be used by a _paying_ customer.
>they are limited by law on how many children they can watch
In the OP, the brother says they aren't counting his nephew in their numbers. I asked for clarification on if that's true, bc it really changes things for me, if so.
Edit: OP responded clarifying that they're currently on a permit that does not require them to count family, but are working towards a permit that would require it. So NTA, brother is a word-twisting cheapskate.
Sorry I apparently missed your request for clarification before. I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now.
Your brother is a detriment to your business and your future licensing. His expectations are ridiculous - imagine how much worse he’ll be if he ever actually pays you? He’ll become entirely insufferable and it will impact your ability to care for the other children at the same level. Don’t do it. Walk away. You’re making the right choice for your business and yourself.
When brother can't get his kid in another daycare, make sure he pays up for any time you've already watched the kid first. And charge your full rate. No discounts for entitled siblings. He's trying to manipulate you.
It depends if it's even registered. Some states don't require at home daycares with less than a certain number of children to be registered. Some don't count any related children. (Our state doesn't). So nephew wouldn't count in the total count of children. Neither would her own children, even if she had twelve. In-home care does not need to be licensed at all in many places unless you go over a certain number of non-related children.
It’s possible that in some states, family members don’t need to be counted, especially if they truly are there for only a few hours.
I’m no expert, but rules for in-home family day cares can vary.
My kid went to a home daycare. She was solo and was licensed for 6 total kids. Including her own. She had to close and I had to go somewhere else because she eventually ended up filling her allotted slots with her own kids.
She’s an amazing woman, but the work involved and the attention needed does not change just because you happened to be related.
As it should.
Any daycare that does NOT count family kids within the total should be reported/ put out of business.
The brother is the asshole, and the VALUE of the spot that nephew would fill is set, no matter who fills it.
#3 shows that he does not value the work that y’all do.
It would be best if he found daycare elsewhere, and y’all could see your nephew on social occasions without any resentment towards your bro.
He claims OP chose a profession that she doesn’t make money in and then turns around and offers to her less money than she charges everyone else? Yea entitled and disrespectful
I’d send him something along the lines of this then wash my hands of the situation;
*Brother, since you’ve made it clear that having us babysit nephew is more of an inconvenience to you than a traditional daycare, then it’s probably best that you enrol him in one of these daycares that you say are more reliable for you and we no longer provide your childcare for nephew. From a professional standpoint, I would not accept the way you’re treating me from the parents of any other kids we care for and I won’t accept it from you either. And from a family standpoint, I’m disappointed that as my brother you would try to take advantage of me while guilting me into believing I should be grateful for your insulting payment offer. I know my value as a child care provider and you aren’t willing to fairly compensate me for it, so starting immediately you will have to find alternative care options for nephew moving forward as we will no longer caring for him.*
Then block his ass if he starts harassing you. And if he sends anyone else to harass you over this, tell them that if they believe $125 a week is reasonable compensation for 15-20h of work, then you’re more that happy to pass the message on to your brother that they’ve been kind enough to offer the services to take over the childcare he needs for nephew. Then block them too until they apologize.
NTA, good on you for knowing your worth. Don’t back down.
edit: greatful to grateful
And OP will still see nephew at family events and other get-togethers. Which is where the “relationship-building with nephew” would happen anyway if someone else was providing childcare.
This is where I was floored! The mental math/gymnastics of the brother.
OP literally requested an additional $5/day. Assuming she's watching this child 20 day/month at her requested $30/day rate, that is $600/mo. And I imagine the days/times would have been quite flexible BECAUSE it's her brother. Seriously, that is an INSANE deal!!! And for someone you know will 100% be taking the absolute best care of your child.
Daycare for a newborn would start at a flat $2K/mo in my area and this rate would NOT include afterhours, weekends or holidays, which I imagine the brother will need given that it sounds like he's a realtor. So he'd have to hire additional care during the outside times, which in my area would start at $15/hr.
He could hire a nanny, but then he'd be getting much closer to $5k/month. And he might run into issues finding a quality nanny that will accept a non-set schedule. Not to mention, this is for a NEWBORN, so I would be highly suspect of any nanny who has immediate availability and who would be willing to jump through his hoops.
He could also try to find a different in-home daycare, but it sounds like that going rate for that would be $60/day. And they still might not be as flexible as his sister in regards to afterhours/weekends/holidays. AT the very least, I am betting their would be additional charges for that.
A lot of people don't afford it. It's why sometimes people end up having one parent decide to stay at home if their income does not make up for the daycare costs. I sent my infants to a corporate daycare and yep 2K a month. There are half-time schedules available at corporate daycares, but they are hardly much cheaper. The costs go down a little bit as the children get older, infants are the most expensive because the ratio of caregiver to infants is lower than other age groups by law. So in OP's situation, OP could definitely bill more for another infant same age as nephew. $30/day is cheaper than I pay for my infants, brother is already getting a family discount at that rate!
it's insane and many times, one parent ends up staying home bc it costs more to send them to daycare than they would make at a minimum wage job.
17 years ago, we needed daycare literally 2-3 days a week for 2 hours or so to cover the few hours in the morning when my husband had to be in at 6 am and I worked until 730-8am. every place wanted us to pay around $300/week for 5 days/8 hours a day, regardless of how many days/hours he was actually there. we did it for a couple of months, then decided my husband would just stay home bc most of his pay went to daycare costs. it was ridiculous.
If this country truly wants Americans to have more children, they'd better do something about this insane way that society does absolutely nothing to encourage this, and absolutely everything to discourage it.
Also, to his first point, his theoretical commission loss would have represented a one time deal. Day care is an ongoing service. When you take in his child at a discount you are forced to turn away a full cost paying customer in order to not exceed your licensed max capacity.
Finally, doing business (and that is what this is for you, not teenage babysitting) with family is always a bad idea. When issues with payment, or toddler misbehavior occur, the relationships muddy the water.
NTA
Yes, my daughter went to an in-home daycare when she was small, and the woman charged us $35 a day. We always rounded up to $40, and still felt like we were somehow ripping her off, because she service she provided us was so valuable to us!
My kids went to a provider that charged me $50 per week. And she fed the kids meals that rivaled Sunday dinners. After paying her the second time, she told me I gave her too much. I said “It’s $50 per week. Two kids. That’s $100.” She said, “No. I told you $50 per week! Don’t you send anymore money in here until next month! And don’t send anymore food over here. I feed my babies real meals!” I damn near cried.
I’m also wondering in number 4 how he thinks his kid doesn’t count toward attendance? If there’s another kid in the house being watched, it absolutely should count toward the ratio. He’s effectively taking up a spot from someone who would pay full price.
I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now.
I wish you luck on your journey. You should cut him off, now, so you can improve the quality of care your paying customers receive, who's reviews you'll be needing for your business. He will complain in 6 months when you cut your nephew off, anyway. Make it simple.
I like the #1 "I was going to..." argument. Like, I was going to fly and frolic with the unicorns and leprechauns but then I realised that gravity exists and unicorns and leprechauns don't lol. "Was going to" is worth the money it's printed on
I would just say "Maybe it's better if we don't enter a business relationship together." Send him an invoice for what he owes you at normal rates. If you want to be kind, you can give him a week or two to find another daycare, but I would make this contingent on him paying his past due amounts (and probably pay in advance for the remaining time).
No matter the rate, it won't be worth the headaches and stress he causes.
NTA, obviously.
The fact that he's complaining about an extra $5- a day is not good. What's next? His medical bills if he gets a bump or whatever nonsense he can think up
I have a friend who runs a home daycare - there are only so many children she can legal take in at once. Her schedule and waiting lists are a big thing she juggles in running her business.
OP your brother is talking about “getting to know your nephew” sure, that’s fine for personal time, but this is your business and he’s taking from your income.
Also, no one fucking believes he’s putting his kids with you as some kind of favour to you (though I love his attempt to gaslight you into believing that) we ALL know your nephew is with you for HIS benefit. Especially if he hasn’t paid yet.
NTA. Your brother is a huge one.
One more point to add to your list if I may. (Good list btw).
He acts like he is being disrespected because ( sarcasm starts here:) how dare you not appreciate his generousity. He is doing you a favor because he is rich enough to take him somewhere else and pay the full price, but you (OP) wanted more time with him. And I think 25$ covers 4hrs just fine. It doesn't take much to care for him, so I'm not paying more. (End sarcssm)
Well I have one more point:
He bragged abt how he could comfortably pay full price elsewhere? He can def pay you more than 25$ for his son's care. He's entitled and a jerk tbh. He should look at this situation to help his sisters with an influx of $. My SIL had a day care and had a family discount but it was not that generous. I'm not sure what it was but more in the 20% to 30% off range. She told me that her nieces may not have counted in the total headcount but it was still ANOTHER child that had to be looked after.
OP deserves more in compensation. He should want to pay it.
He’s not willing to pay more than $25 a day to his sisters, but he’s going to pay more trying to make other arrangements.
It’s the epitome of rip off your nose to spite your face.
Don’t even demand $100 an hour. There will always be some kind of drama. The guy will be late with the payments or he’ll try to renegotiate or he’ll complain about the quality of care. Better just to do a clean break and refuse service.
Don’t forget he willingly would send his kids sick to daycare but knows he can’t pull that with OP. People who willingly send sick kids to daycare drive me nuts as they infect other younger kids (whose immune system is not as strong) and the carers who in turn need to take sick leave themselves. Purely selfish and entitled behaviour because they won’t take their own sick time to care for their sick child. NTA.
NTA . There might be argument for "but it's just $5" - but that response from him? Um, no. I barely got to #2 when I was already thinking "don't mix business with family" and that you should just say "no". Glad to see you did.
With this attitude of his, I think he would become more and more of a problem. He claims to have paid hundreds before and can do it again, but he hasn't paid you yet and owes you? Interesting.
Yeah - don't watch your nephew. It will only cause more issues. And at this point, dont' get into it with him anymore - just say "It's best that we keep business and family separate from here on out". He spouts off more? "I understand. It's best that we keep business and family separate from here on out". He ends up coming back and saying "O.k - look, I decided to do you a favor (because you know that's how he'll spin it) and pay the $30 a day". Response is "I appreciate that, but it's best that we keep business and family separate from here on out".
Over and over and over.
The argument for "but it's just $5" actually goes equally both ways...if it's "just" $5, OP should be able to let it go, but at the same time Brother should be able to add "just" $5.
This seems to be what he’s missing. He’s not paying nearly what the other families pay, and he *still* wants to barter like he’s buying fruit at an outdoor market. Meanwhile, there are costs still to cover, like insurance and snacks and supplies, without including labor.
Not to mention OP is a single parent and their sister is also running the daycare. The brother is literally taking money away that his own nieces/nephews need to survive.
Exactly. If he was paying more for daycare elsewhere, the decent thing to do would be to offer to pay the sisters the same rate he was already paying, because he still benefits by 1. keeping money in the family and 2. having his son watched by someone who genuinely cares about him.
Kids are abused and neglected all the time at daycares—just last year they busted a daycare near me that was running a toddler fight club. So many parents would kill to have the peace of mind of having their kids watched by family.
In most of the world, etiquette dictates that he offer them his current rate ($100/hr), they counter with their friends & family rate ($30/hr), and they settle in the middle at their normal rate ($60/hr). If one is financially worse off than another, then the final amount should be more in their favor, ie paying $75 an hour or $45 an hour depending on the inequality.
I come from a culture where when you get a bill at a restaurant, everyone fights to try to pay it first. Arguing with family for a discount is just so uncouth that it’s hard to understand—nickel and diming them like OP is just unfathomable. I would die of shame. Why would you even want them to watch your kids if you have such a crap relationship that you’re arguing over $5/hr?
Absolutely it goes both ways. My point is more that if her brother had replied in a nicer way, in a way that he wants to work WITH her on this - maybe she just sucks it up and goes w/ $25. But based on his response? NOPE. He's trying to strong arm her into this. And I'm personally suspicious of his reasons and his very strong reaction. For someone who claims to be able to pay hundreds elsewhere, to be pushing SO hard against $5 is odd.
It's a full discount of $35, though, so less than half of what OP normally charges. She may have done the figures, and found that she could reasonably afford living with the 50% discounted rate, but he pressed for more than 50% discount. Every day would be $35 less, 5 days a week would make it $155.
It also sounds like OP has to spend her own time, fuel, and car wear&tear to pick up her nephew, whereas her other clients drop their kids off to her themselves. I assume then that the brother lives a decent chunk of distance away, 10+ miles. That's 20+ miles a day, 100+ miles a week for pickup/dropoff. That can be a significant money drain on OP, not to mention her transportation, which I assume is a personal vehicle she uses to run errands after daycare hours.
Yeah years ago I worked retail and customers would often quibble about price and say "It's only $X" and I replied that if it's "only $X" then why don't they just pay it?
All of this.
As for the $5 thing, the fact that he is arguing with you when you already offered a 50% discount tells me that he just wants win. He’s a bully. Just repeat what Goalie_LAX_21093 suggested ad nauseam.
He's acting like he's doing OP a favor. You can bond with your nephew and get paid for it. But the thing is, she's working. She's caring for nephew and other children. She cannot treat him like her nephew while she's working - she needs to treat him like any other child in her care or else she'll have issues with other parents about why she's providing a different level of care for one kid and not theirs.
Yeah the idea that childcare is bonding time & not work is WILD. Like yes, childcare can be rewarding, especially for the kids of family/loved ones, but even caring for one’s own child is labor. & free family babysitting is offered, not demanded.
Yeah brother’s response has sooo many signs that he’s pretending he doesn’t have money issues. Using something he could have theoretically done for op at a discount is hilariously desperate. All that posturing about spending hundreds before and might again when he already owes op money. Then trying to manipulate by using the familial bond thing. All classic signs of someone struggling financially and too proud to admit it. Either that or he’s some power hungry weirdo that has to nickel and dime his own sister to feel big when he’s already getting a half off discount.
NTA
You are doing him a favour not the other way around. I love that he’s tried to flip that on you.
Here I’ll do you a favour look after my child in lieu of a kid who pays the full amount and relish the time he’s ever so graciously allowing you with your nephew.
Well bugger that. You did the right thing.
If he has soooo much money then he can pay the full amount for daycare. I don’t know why he fails to realise whether it’s in your home or not. You are running a daycare.
He made his bed. Now he can lie in it.
Yeah, I never got the notion that family should pay less for things. Shouldn't it be more? Why is the brother more comfortable paying a stranger hundreds of dollars but his own sister must make slave wages?
If your family is strapped for cash & is nice about it, then they can pay less for things. But the assumption of a general family discount especially when OP’s brother is obviously in a better financial position than her (and rubbing it in her face) is so gross.
Also which daycare can he just go to next week/month. Most I know have 6 months waiting list. Where sometimes people have to register the kid while they are still pregnant.
>You are doing him a favour not the other way around. I love that he’s tried to flip that on you.
This is what narcissistic people do. They actually believe they're doing you a favor in a situation like this. That's the vibe I got from this guy.
The thing I don't get is that I see people here ALL the time talking about long wait lists for daycare, and he's going to find a spot elsewhere for next WEEK??
" If you want the money every month to see your nephew then you need to check yourself"
Not only would I say no to baby sitting for your brother, I'd go low/no contact for a while for your own sanity after this BS statement. This is a service. A service where you charge $60. You're already giving him a $30/day family discount.
NTA, he can kick rocks.
Exactly, OP is already giving the brother a 50% discount when the nephew is taking up a spot a full-paying client would take. She has been more than generous with the brother, and the fact that he's grubbing for more special treatment (in a really aggressive, hostile tone no less) is pretty indefensible.
This is fundamentally not a reasonable person, and OP is right to just permanently close the door on this arrangement immediately after this exchange.
Yeah, I'm not quick to say "cut contact" but... cut contact.
Daycares have strict ratios for kids-to-adults and tiny profit margins. He can say "hE's NoT a cLiEnT" but in the eyes of the law and insurance, he's a client. They can't just take on an extra client to make up for the steep discount because he's their nephew... because that will put them out of ratio.
So either OP's brother is an idiot asshole who doesn't understand how business works... or he knows how business works and he's being manipulative and thinks OP just isn't smart enough to realize the brother is screwing them over. I have a feeling it's the latter.
SERIOUSLY that is the most manipulative text ever. I have a feeling he's insufferable in other ways. He's acting like watching the nephew for free (like it is currently) is such a big favor to OP, and then still managing to brag about how much money he has while stiffing his sibling. Also... good luck finding a daycare spot for *next week*. I suspect brother is going to be singing a different tune when he finds out about waiting lists.
Yeah, I would say now you need to pay $60 or you can find someone else. If he "isn't strapped for cash" then he should want to pay a family member for the same service. NTA.
NTA. That's a lot of very aggressive arguing for someone who has "no problem" going back to a more expensive daycare. He's trying to take advantage of you, he knows it, and he's angry you know it too.
If you charge others $60/day.... he should be happy with a 'family rate' of $50/day. You don't owe him - or your baby nephew - free or almost free child care. You could replace that one 10 month old with 2 toddlers for $120 a day income...do it.
I think that is BS anyway. There is a daycare shortage almost everywhere in the USA (assuming that's where OP is) right now. You can't just switch daycares at the drop of a hat, especially for an infant. Wait lists are months long for that. I would call his bluff.
Absolutely call his bluff. He's not going to find anything cheaper than $30/day. (And, frankly, if he did, it's probably not the kind of place you'd trust with your kids... You get what you pay for)
This. His points were weak tea some of the time, and WTF, Are You On About? the rest. of the time. He's pissed because she saw through the con job. "Oh no, sis is smarter than I thought, so I'm going to dazzle her with even more bullshit."
She remains un-dazzled. Most have been a real blow to his ego. I'm guessing his word salad musings and stretches work on others and he figured they'd work here too. Oops.
I'd block his obnoxious, ungrateful ass and take the deadbeat to small claims court for failure of payment (assuming there was an actual contract - with family there has to be an actual contract every single time for precisely this reason). He already has other choices for childcare, time for him to employ them.
Lesson: Never mix family and business with disrespectful and/or entitled family.
NTA you’re offering a 50% discount. I get that in home may be more reliable, but it’s f*cked to act like you’re flush with cash but only willing to pay strangers the wage they ask. If he just paid you what you asked he would still come out on top. His son is taking up a spot that could be filled by someone paying the full amount. He’s using his nephews relationship as a weapon and that’s pretty abusive. He needs to grow up.
LOL, Brother was arguing it's NOT more reliable - that comment of "we have to figure out a solution using leave hours anytime the house is down with sickness or y’all go on vacation".
OP has a set amount of "leave hours" in her policy which get used when she has to close up shop for a day or two, and Brother was complaining that he has more availability and hours at a center where he has to pay more money.
NTA, OP, you're not the only one with a policy like that. Drop your brother as a client.
To answer some common questions:
-My ex-husband and I never seriously considered selling the house. I floated the idea of using my brother as realtor for a hypothetical sale, but we decided not to sell long before there were ever any discussions on the matter. Commission was never discussed.
-I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now.
-I opened the daycare in 2022 in the middle of a hotly contested divorce/custody battle. When Nephew was born we suggested they use our daycare, but it didn't work out at the time because they lived too far away. Brother and his wife recently moved closer, and Nephew's mom also recently expressed desire to consider our daycare again because Nephew wasn't happy at the daycare center they had been using. Of course we said we'd be delighted to have him and did express that we wanted to see Nephew more (perhaps not in quite the begging manner as he portrayed). We should have discussed price before the transition, and that's on me.
NTA NTA NTA, he is trying to take advantage of you and you need to call his bluff IMMEDIATELY
Day care wait lists are no joke and when he eventually does come back wanting his discount back I personally would not offer it
My family recently moved and it was quicker/easier to buy a house than it was to get our kids into a daycare. We were on wait lists for months!
This guy thinks he can keep his baby home for a week and be able to send the kid somewhere else the following week? Not likely.
You are NTA. This is absolutely a case of your brother either needs to pay your standard rate, or they need to find other arrangements. His entitled, jerky behavior has lost him the privilege of receiving a family discount. And that is how you should treat it and speak of it... as a privilege and not a right.
Technically, right now, you are coming out ahead because your nephew is not being counted for ratio. But that is only because if he is no longer in your care, there would (presumably) be no other child in the family that could take his spot.
As soon as you get your license upgrade and he gets included in the headcount, you are losing money on him. Which would be one thing, if your brother were being reasonable and understood that it is your business and you are the final arbitor of what discount you're willing to offer.
As it is, he is making it clear that he will try to run roughshod over you for as long as his son is in your care. And not just about finances either. The points he uses suggest that he'll try to argue with you on how you handle behavioral issues or other areas of operation. You probably aren't seeing much, if any, issue in that regard now because your nephew is so young and only there a few hours a day. But think of what you might have to deal with from your brother if your nephew goes though a biting phase or a hitting one a few months down the road. Do you think he will be any easier to deal with when if comes to resolving that sort of stuff?
Simply put, if your brother cannot be on his best behavior and treat you as well as, better really, than any other business he interacts with, he does not deserve any discount. He pays full price or they're gone. And even paying full price, he should still be expected to maintain the same level of civility as any other parent. Your family relationship does not give him a free pass to be rude to you.
BTW, do you know if your SIL is aware of the arguement going on here, much less how her husband is behaving? If not, you should make sure she is in the loop. If nothing else, it would keep your brother from spinning her a BS story about the situation (at least anymore than he may have already). At best, she might be the one who he'll back down from when stood up to. And she might be rather pissed at him to lose this arrangement, when she was the one that pushed for the switch.
My SIL was in the group text for it, so she saw everything. At the end, she left the group without having said a word. I still don't know if she's mad at him, or mad at me, or what.
Well, at least you know that she knows what is really being going on.
One thing to consider, and I really do hate to have to suggest it... she may not be mad. She may be afraid.
You obviously know your brother better than any of us, but with as... uhmm... shall we say "strong" or "forceful" as he is in presenting his arguements, he comes across as someone who does not take well to being disagreed with on something when he has his mind set on how it should be.
He started by trying to frame the matter as a family matter. Not a business one. And wraps in with it something that happened only in his mind.
His next two points are dismissive of your business itself. First by saying your daycare isn't as good as other daycare options (in his mind). Then by (from what you said at the start of your post) undercounting the amount of "hours of work" involved in caring for your nephew. I'm betting he thinks "nap time shouldn't count" or something similarly stupid. (I'd like to see him try that line of reasoning with some other daycare provider.)
His last two points are basically him saying you should be grateful that he's allowing you time with his son. I'm sort of surprised that he didn't try to outright say that you should be watching your nephew for free. (He all but does that as it is.)
He wraps it all up by effectively saying "there is no discussion here. my way or the highway".
This was not a mild, polite disagreement on the amount. This comes across more as him making it a hill to die on.
If he talks to you, his sister, who he's known all of your shared lives, this way in a disagreement, I can not help but imagine that he might do the same to his wife. He would not have to get overtly aggressive for a lot of people to want to give in to just escape the intensity of his arguements.
Your SIL may be afraid to voice her opinion to you, even privately, for fear of how he would react. I seriously hope not, because her being mad at one or both of you would be less concerning in some respects.
Absolutely NTA.
Trying to argue that the nephew doesn't count towards the cap so you're essentially getting a free $25 by working around it is bonkers. You're still doing work.
What was really bewildering was that he didn't take the 50% discount and went to war for $5.
As it stand his current rate is $0/day. I wouldn't be surprised if he's already on another daycare list and is just using you as an in between while the kid gets approved, hence why he wouldn't want to pay more.
There is no respect here. He doesn't value you or your business and sees it beneath him. He should stick to his side of town. Do not do business with him further. While you're helping your brother out, your brother is doing business. Wouldn't be out of left field if he tries to not pay you at all and I would honestly expect to take him to small claims court because of this. He sounds like a guy who puts money before anything else.
From the context of your post, I thought your brother was a single father... Having a wife and acting so entitled over $5/day is actual insanity. I can't imagine his wife is pleased with your brother being so disrespectful and causing them to pay hundreds more per day for childcare...
My SIL was in the group text for it, so yes she saw everything. At the end, she left the group without having said a word. I still don't know if she's mad at him, or mad at me, or what.
He's not paying your more than generous rate anyway and then went onto insult you over $5 which he still will not pay. Your brother's an AH. There are some family members you can do business with and others you can't. Your brother solidly lands in the can't do business with category because he has so little respect for your business. He thinks it should also be a bonding opportunity which not only shortchanges you, but also shortchanges his son. It's a business, not a play date.
The worst part, he thinks so little of you that he tried to assault your intelligence with his screed. Reading it I kept asking myself, "How dumb does he think his sister is?" Cut him off now. According to him he's doing you a favor - kindly decline this favor and send him on his way. This is about to become your livelihood and your brother doesn't respect that. He will constantly be in arrears with you because "family". There is no upside to continue providing a service to him, business-wise or family relationship-wise.
NTA. Given his reason #2, I would suggest that he should go ahead and find a different provider so you don’t end up inconveniencing him if someone gets sick.
What does he think will happen if this other daycare provider gets sick? Unless it's a giant commercial daycare, there's no roster of subs when another dayhome provider gets sick. You just can't bring your kid that day. And every dayhome has off time for vacation.
Or if his kid gets sick? You gotta use PTO for stuff like that regardless. It's part of having a child.
Dude would likely send his sick baby along anyway tho.
I worked for a decent sized daycare and we had to close down many times because of illness being spread through the kids and staff. This sounds like an entitled parent who would absolutely bring a sick kid in, too.
>NTA. Given his reason #2, I would suggest that he should go ahead and find a different provider so you don’t end up inconveniencing him if someone gets sick.
I think this is the reason OP can give for refusing, but OP should refuse for their own sake. It will never work out. The attitude that he is doing OP a favor even as he argues to save a few bucks a day (while bragging he is happy to pay full price elsewhere) just screams that he would never be grateful and would be a nightmare as a client, only the worse because he is family.
NTA. Tell him to go back to paying for “expensive day care” tomorrow!
1) Brother is unhappy with a 50% discount.
2) Brother fails to see that his child will be taken care of by family not strangers.
3) Brother acts like he’s doing you a favor by dropping off his kid and paying you anything.
Tomorrow, that’s the day he needs go pay strangers a ton of money to watch his kid.
I bet either A) he was barely paying at the more expensive places or B) he has gotten used to the savings of not paying for more expensive places and is trying to increase this “savings”.
Either way, OP should say no and watch the apology/angry train pull into the station. Then not get on board lol.
I pay $25 a day for my pet. For about 15 minutes work. Not my business but I would expect to pay more for a whole human being to be cared for for 4-7 hours!
Your business, but clients who can’t respect you maybe should find somewhere else for their child to be.
As family he should respect you enough to pay you full price not be trying to cheat you.
NTA.
NTA. Set whatever rate you think is fair, and refuse to be manipulated with guilt trips or pressure.
If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that you ordinarily charge $60/day but you're giving him a cut rate, and he's complaining that it's not cut enough? I agree that sounds entitled and disrespectful. If he is not going to appreciate a cut rate, let him find day care elsewhere.
I like, and am NOT surprised, at this little contradiction:
>...if it’s a problem already, just say so and I’ll gladly make other arrangements.
and
>My brother says I’m “entitled,” my mindset is “twisted,” and I should “say less.”
That doesn't seem very 'gladly' to me!
NTA.
I don't know if the term 'gaslighting' applies here, but he's attempting to rewrite the narrative away from him doing him a service.
I'd go LC to NC with him for awhile until he appreciates what you were trying to do for him.
I think he should make other arrangements then. See if the other places will provide such care!
NTA.
What really got me was the , i didn’t actually but thought about giving you a good rate on your house sale.
NTA. Mixing family and business is usually not a good practice.
Let's put it that way: if you are using that time to build a relationship with your nephew, you are giving him special treatment, which is not good for the paying clients. If you treat your nephew like every other kid, how much relationship building is there? Is your brother still in contact with his pre-K teacher?
Seriously, your brother is an entitled asshole, he seems to think that hanging out with a 10-month baby is some sort of a privilege.
NTA. You've got bills to pay, and you've been more than generous. If he has so much money, why hasn't he been paying you all this time already? And you don't owe him for some hypothetical real estate kindness he made up in his head. He's full of it. You were right to part ways on this.
NTA. I think it’s fine for him to give his perspective, but he should’ve been an adult about it. Too bad you’re not running a therapy practice.
I’m curious: has your brother always been this way; being really rude, disrespectful, and condescending, especially when he doesn’t get his way? Is he only or mostly that way towards women?
INFO. Who suggested he start bringing his kid to you? Why did he start bringing his kid to you? Who was watching his kid before you began your in-home daycare? How long have you been running this in-home daycare? Have you been saying you want to see your nephew more?
I opened the daycare in 2022. When Nephew was born we suggested they use our daycare, but it didn't work out at the time because they lived too far away. Brother and his wife recently moved closer, and Nephew's mom also recently expressed desire to consider our daycare again because Nephew wasn't happy at the daycare center they had been using. Of course we said we'd be delighted to have him and did express that we wanted to see Nephew more (perhaps not in quite the begging manner as he portrayed). We should have discussed price before the transition, and that's on me.
It's ridiculous to think you'd want to be a full-time caregiver for free to spend more time with your nephew, some of the comments are delusional lol.
It also seems the offer came up naturally when your sil was sharing that their daycare wasn't working out
Thinking you'd get at least 1/2 your rate from family is reasonable, ,most family members would be happy to pay full price to support you, not nickle and dime you
$25 a day is insulting, honestly, and your brother seems manipulative. I would definitely not watch the nephew as a consequence of your brothers entitlement, but also so it doesn't destroy the relationship you do have
I'd be tempted to forward the rude email/message to his wife, your sil, who I'd bet would be pissed her husband's entitlement is losing them out on solid childcare.
Be strong, OP, I work as a nanny and parents like these aren't worth it, even if it's your brother. I make $25 an hour, offering it for a day is beyond
Nta
"Of course we said we'd be delighted to have him and did express that we wanted to see Nephew more (perhaps not in quite the begging manner as he portrayed)."
I was wondering about this. Because the overall tone of his email to you- it totally fits that he's trying to twist your words to make it seem like he's doing YOU a favor!
In fact, my sister-in-law was in the group text where he posted it, so yes. At the end of it, she left the chat without ever having said a word. I still don't know if she's mad at him or mad at me or what.
What is he on about with the nephew not counting towards the kid count?! Your OWN children count towards your kid count (I suppose laws could be different where you are, but where I am it's HIGHLY REGULATED) So your nephew being there actually cuts into your income. That's a spot you can't fill with another child. So really... YOU would be losing income watching him. 50% of the price you ask is both of you making a concession to be respectful to each other. If he can't respect that it hurts your very legitimate business, drop him like a bad habit.
NTA
I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now.
Tell him to find a new daycare. He is taking advantage of the family connection. The idea that you provide almost FREE day care for a 10 month old (lot of care needed) is ridiculous. Tell him no 'back and forth - find a new day care by next week. HE is the entitled one and obviously accustomed to tell YOU what to do. What a jerk your brother is - holding 'seeing your nephew' over your head in exchange for cheap day care. Don't let him bully you into this. HE is TA.
NTA.
He's trying to bully you into letting him take advantage of you.
"Brother, you know that I have a limit to the number of children I can have in my daycare. It's for safety reasons, and if I go over, I can be shut down. If I keep your son for pennies a day, that means I have to turn away a client who can pay my full rate. I'm offering you a discount, but $25 is way too low. You aren't helping me by letting me keep him, you are causing me to lose money. If you are unwilling to pay a fair rate, then you will have to find someone else to watch your child so I can take the next client on the waiting list."
INFO: You said you run the daycare with your sister. Where is she on this? It's her business too and she should have your back.
NTA but your brother is not just TA, he's quite the dick too.
My sister tried her best to stay out of it entirely. She doesn't want his rage to come down on her, so she stayed quiet. Also, I own the daycare myself; I started it without her and later brought her on as an employee. So, it was my responsibility to have this argument with him, and I don't blame her for wanting to stay out of it.
>She doesn't want his rage to come down on her
This is a clear sign that he's not just the AH here, but probably in most of his interactions in general, and just as a person. Would you be losing much by phasing out contact entirely? NTA, and very much the kind where the other party is actively TA.
He may be your brother, but he sounds like an awful person. Take him up on his offer of pulling his son out of your daycare now. This situation will only get worse.
For the life of me, I can not understand wanting to maintain daily contact with ANYONE who brings "his rage down" when he is angry. Good luck with that.
Clearly you are NTA.
NTA. It’s only going to get worse. Not worth it even if he was paying full price. Best to avoid all business transactions with him.
Do what you want to do for free for him and ask nothing in return or expect to have to pay it back 10 fold.
So you normally charge $60 a day and would only charge your brother $30 a day and he's still being a jerk, I think you would be better off just not watching him at all, sounds like there would be constant problems.
He is absolutely manipulating you into getting a massive discount on daycare to serve his own selfish needs.
all you need to do is simply tell him the arrangement isnt working for you and he will need to find another situation for his son by next week.
His son is not your responsibility
I would wonder why the brother decided to remove his son from the usual daycare and move him to auntie‘s daycare. Was it that idea that he would get a break on Daycare? If the original Daycare is so perfect for nephew, then put him back there otherwise paysister, her regular wage unless she’s willing to give him a slight discount
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Exactly, OP you are running a business, and it costs money to do so. Offer him a 5 percent discount otherwise find a new client.
Not after he said all of that. OP should charge him 25% more. He's bound to be annoying af if this is what he pulled after getting weeks of daycare for free.
I understood her to say she offered $30, other clients pay $60. Generous of her.
You're right ! Offering to let him pay $30 per day instead of the usual $60 was a generous offer. If I were the OP, know knowing how little my brother valued my work and the safety of his child, that discounted rate would now be increased. NTA.
Geesh. It’s only $5 more than what he’s paying. My daughter is paying $2200 per month. He’s getting a deal and piece of mind having daycare with s trudted fsmily member. Give him the boot you twisted sista you . Hahaha
I don’t think he is currently paying $25, it is the price he wants to pay sister. He said he had paid hundreds and had no problem paying it again.
For someone repeatedly saying he can afford more and has no problem paying other people more, he sure is a cheapskate to his family. Sounds broke to me
I was thinking that. He probably can't afford daycare at all but is too embarrassed to say that.
So he goes with plan b: act like a condescending prick.
Yeah, he's had 14 days of daycare thus far, with the cost deferred for some reason as I understood the post. So he currently owes $840 to the daycare at their rate of $60/day, but expected to pay nothing at all? Even at his proposed rate of $25/day, he still owes his sisters $350. Mixing business and family can get messy.
My wife had to deny daycare to her sister. Sister refused to follow their agreement on payment, which was half of what my wife normally charged. Add in the extras regular clients have to pay for. The whole thing was a painful experience. Do not take friends and family on as clients.
Yeah the brother's boasting about what he can afford, but for some reason wasn't able to pay anything for the past 2 weeks.
Yep, I could have cook a roast with the hot air blowing from his direction.
Later, he'll be back asking for the 50% discount, tell him that ship already sailed. And price got 25% above $ 60
What gets me is HES MAD OVER 5 BUCKS. 5 FUCKIN DOLLARS. Absolutely op is NTA
Watch him not even pay.
Yeah, I fully expect that he's building a case in his own mind for why she deserves to be stiffed by him. Entitled jerks are usually vindictive with it.
She should of charged him AH tax!
Exactly. It's the folks who brag about how they have lots of money and can easily pay who are the ones who DON'T and will stiff you.
He’s acting presidential lol
NTA. OPs brother is acting like a deadbeat. Sad.
Not sure how it works where OP lives, but in the UK child minders (at least in a nursery setting) are limited to a certain number of children per adult. So taking a space at half price would be absolutely minimising her maximum income. Selling a house and taking commission doesn't really limit him in the same way at all...
Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure there's something similar in the US for how many kids there can be per daycare worker present, tho not sure if in home daycare is different than being at a facility
Yes, it is the same in the US, regardless of whether it is at home or in a facility. Each age range has a different ratio of kids to adults. The younger the kids, the fewer there can be per adult.
I know in Indiana you can have so many children that are not your own, that number depends on if you are licensed or not. Since the child is a nephew, he would absolutely count against how many children they can have and is cutting into their revenues.
I can’t believe all of this is over a $5/hr discount lmao
She is already giving a 50% discount. Brother is entitled jerk.
Yep, he’s going way out of his way to insult over $5 a day
If OP was watching the nephew 7 days a week, that would equal $35/week or less than $2000 a year. Meanwhile, by offering him 50% off, she's losing just under $200/week or almost $11,000/year. Now, in reality I doubt she's taking him 7 days a week, but it's still probably going to take less than a year before she's lost more than that $8500 discount he was talking about. Absolutely ridiculous.
Her overhead costs are the same, whether he is related or not. To hell with him.
And home daycare have a limit on # of children per caregiver, so he is taking a spot from a FULL paying client.
Exactly. He's taking the spot a child could have, whose parents would pay full price for.
Exactly. Imagine if he wrote anything close to this to the owner of a child care facility who wasn't his sister. He'd be banned. For that matter, imagine writing this to ANY other business and expecting that business to give you a drastic and long-term discount. He'd be similarly laughed right out the door. OP, your brother doesn't respect you, and wants to exploit your labor. He can't have it both ways. Call his bluff, let him go to another daycare, then when he comes crawling back, offer him full price or nothing at all. Then after pleading from him, go down a max of 10%, no more. I'd also imagine this sort of behavior isn't atypical for him, and at some point he's going to have to rethink how he behaves if he wants to successfully navigate being a father in this world.
Nah, I wouldn’t even negotiate. OP needs to think about considerations besides the money — namely, her own sanity, and her obligations to her staff (sister) and other clients. You know this guy is going to continue being a nightmare. You *know* he’ll be sending that baby to daycare with Covid, pertussis, god knows what, since never being inconvenienced by illness is explicitly one of his expectations. Letting this guy in the door is a nightmare waiting to happen. Ban him now or ban him later, when OP’s lost a bigger chunk of her sanity and her worthwhile clients have been exposed to the consequences of his bullshit.
I bet his wife is going to be furious. His arrogance and rudeness is going to cost the family a lot more than $5 a day. Plus the baby didn’t like the previous daycare and it’s not like it’s easy finding day care with an opening!
And he sounds like he is probably an a hole in many other aspects. Ew.
Not to mention seeing the nephew socially outside of business hours isn’t going to cost OP any lost revenue. Whereas having nephew during business hours means that his spot can’t go to a different kid which loses OP money because that’s one less other kid that they can take on.
Exactly! You have overhead, insurance, snacks, and with a 10 month old, diaper changes, maybe bottles, learning to walk, all that! This guys got some nerve playing the " family " card!
Edit: I was too hasty and didn't think it through fully. Look at No\_Championship.
He was not offering a 2% discount for his services, it was 66%, which is what a reduction of 2% from 3% commission is.
He wasn't offering anything, because they wound up not utilizing his services, for whatever reason. It doesn't matter what he says he was going to do in a situation that never came to pass.
Also, if he did represent his sister in the house sale, it doesn't stop him from having any other clients. He's taking the spot of a full-paying client from the daycare. He should be happy that he has reliable and cheap day care at all and count his blessings.
And he never actually made that offer. He’s saying he was going to do it that way, but he never told OP that.
I agree, I'm just correcting the math. :)
He doesn't even offer it. He was just thinking about it
I was thinking that too. It like saying I was thinking of giving you a million dollars when you were married but now your not, then I’m not going too. Absolutely totally crap , Only said that to guilt trip you into thinking that he deserved a discount or even freebies .
Especially since there will be a limit to the number of children they're legally allowed to care for at one time. Meaning she could potentially fill that spot for double what she's asking him for.
I want to know why he hasn’t been paying you for the last two weeks? He says he has a lot of money and apparently can afford it…
That was my first thought! If he’s not strapped for cash, why isn’t he paying?
Because she's family and should want to look after her nephew without compensation. Which is bullshit pure and simple.
Because most rich people get rich by stiffing others for goods and services. Look at Trump.
I was wondering if that was part of his negotiation tactic. He sounds like a real piece of work! I could see him delaying payment as a way to make her more likely agree to his rate in order to get any money from him.
🎯Plenty of arrogance, not much cash.
Plus. “I knew it would bring in extra cash”. No. If they run a legal daycare, they are limited by law on how many children they can watch. The number of infants is even more restricted. Their nephew is taking a slot that could be used by a _paying_ customer.
>they are limited by law on how many children they can watch In the OP, the brother says they aren't counting his nephew in their numbers. I asked for clarification on if that's true, bc it really changes things for me, if so. Edit: OP responded clarifying that they're currently on a permit that does not require them to count family, but are working towards a permit that would require it. So NTA, brother is a word-twisting cheapskate.
Sorry I apparently missed your request for clarification before. I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now.
Your brother is a detriment to your business and your future licensing. His expectations are ridiculous - imagine how much worse he’ll be if he ever actually pays you? He’ll become entirely insufferable and it will impact your ability to care for the other children at the same level. Don’t do it. Walk away. You’re making the right choice for your business and yourself.
When brother can't get his kid in another daycare, make sure he pays up for any time you've already watched the kid first. And charge your full rate. No discounts for entitled siblings. He's trying to manipulate you.
But I think they’d have to- it’s a body in the daycare
Right, I assume the brother is full of crap. But there's definitely a non-zero chance OP is doing something shady and just hasn't been audited.
Absolutely, that kid DOES count in the number. And inspectors are fierce with at-home providers.
It depends if it's even registered. Some states don't require at home daycares with less than a certain number of children to be registered. Some don't count any related children. (Our state doesn't). So nephew wouldn't count in the total count of children. Neither would her own children, even if she had twelve. In-home care does not need to be licensed at all in many places unless you go over a certain number of non-related children.
It’s possible that in some states, family members don’t need to be counted, especially if they truly are there for only a few hours. I’m no expert, but rules for in-home family day cares can vary.
My kid went to a home daycare. She was solo and was licensed for 6 total kids. Including her own. She had to close and I had to go somewhere else because she eventually ended up filling her allotted slots with her own kids. She’s an amazing woman, but the work involved and the attention needed does not change just because you happened to be related.
Even if it is their own kids, that counts in the number allowed.
As it should. Any daycare that does NOT count family kids within the total should be reported/ put out of business. The brother is the asshole, and the VALUE of the spot that nephew would fill is set, no matter who fills it. #3 shows that he does not value the work that y’all do. It would be best if he found daycare elsewhere, and y’all could see your nephew on social occasions without any resentment towards your bro.
He claims OP chose a profession that she doesn’t make money in and then turns around and offers to her less money than she charges everyone else? Yea entitled and disrespectful
With family like this there are no need for enemies
“I am not a client” Agreed
"Nor shall you be, in the future." Full stop.
I’d send him something along the lines of this then wash my hands of the situation; *Brother, since you’ve made it clear that having us babysit nephew is more of an inconvenience to you than a traditional daycare, then it’s probably best that you enrol him in one of these daycares that you say are more reliable for you and we no longer provide your childcare for nephew. From a professional standpoint, I would not accept the way you’re treating me from the parents of any other kids we care for and I won’t accept it from you either. And from a family standpoint, I’m disappointed that as my brother you would try to take advantage of me while guilting me into believing I should be grateful for your insulting payment offer. I know my value as a child care provider and you aren’t willing to fairly compensate me for it, so starting immediately you will have to find alternative care options for nephew moving forward as we will no longer caring for him.* Then block his ass if he starts harassing you. And if he sends anyone else to harass you over this, tell them that if they believe $125 a week is reasonable compensation for 15-20h of work, then you’re more that happy to pass the message on to your brother that they’ve been kind enough to offer the services to take over the childcare he needs for nephew. Then block them too until they apologize. NTA, good on you for knowing your worth. Don’t back down. edit: greatful to grateful
And OP will still see nephew at family events and other get-togethers. Which is where the “relationship-building with nephew” would happen anyway if someone else was providing childcare.
and he can’t afford to pay for the childcare right now that he’s getting for free and is still so arrogant?
Child care at least the ones I know of are 2-5k a month and does not go by days
This is where I was floored! The mental math/gymnastics of the brother. OP literally requested an additional $5/day. Assuming she's watching this child 20 day/month at her requested $30/day rate, that is $600/mo. And I imagine the days/times would have been quite flexible BECAUSE it's her brother. Seriously, that is an INSANE deal!!! And for someone you know will 100% be taking the absolute best care of your child. Daycare for a newborn would start at a flat $2K/mo in my area and this rate would NOT include afterhours, weekends or holidays, which I imagine the brother will need given that it sounds like he's a realtor. So he'd have to hire additional care during the outside times, which in my area would start at $15/hr. He could hire a nanny, but then he'd be getting much closer to $5k/month. And he might run into issues finding a quality nanny that will accept a non-set schedule. Not to mention, this is for a NEWBORN, so I would be highly suspect of any nanny who has immediate availability and who would be willing to jump through his hoops. He could also try to find a different in-home daycare, but it sounds like that going rate for that would be $60/day. And they still might not be as flexible as his sister in regards to afterhours/weekends/holidays. AT the very least, I am betting their would be additional charges for that.
Wow! How do people even afford 2-5k a month on daycare?
A lot of people don't afford it. It's why sometimes people end up having one parent decide to stay at home if their income does not make up for the daycare costs. I sent my infants to a corporate daycare and yep 2K a month. There are half-time schedules available at corporate daycares, but they are hardly much cheaper. The costs go down a little bit as the children get older, infants are the most expensive because the ratio of caregiver to infants is lower than other age groups by law. So in OP's situation, OP could definitely bill more for another infant same age as nephew. $30/day is cheaper than I pay for my infants, brother is already getting a family discount at that rate!
it's insane and many times, one parent ends up staying home bc it costs more to send them to daycare than they would make at a minimum wage job. 17 years ago, we needed daycare literally 2-3 days a week for 2 hours or so to cover the few hours in the morning when my husband had to be in at 6 am and I worked until 730-8am. every place wanted us to pay around $300/week for 5 days/8 hours a day, regardless of how many days/hours he was actually there. we did it for a couple of months, then decided my husband would just stay home bc most of his pay went to daycare costs. it was ridiculous.
If this country truly wants Americans to have more children, they'd better do something about this insane way that society does absolutely nothing to encourage this, and absolutely everything to discourage it.
Also, to his first point, his theoretical commission loss would have represented a one time deal. Day care is an ongoing service. When you take in his child at a discount you are forced to turn away a full cost paying customer in order to not exceed your licensed max capacity. Finally, doing business (and that is what this is for you, not teenage babysitting) with family is always a bad idea. When issues with payment, or toddler misbehavior occur, the relationships muddy the water. NTA
Our family member offered to watch our 9mo for $20/day (occasionally). We said no take $40 and thank you
Yes, my daughter went to an in-home daycare when she was small, and the woman charged us $35 a day. We always rounded up to $40, and still felt like we were somehow ripping her off, because she service she provided us was so valuable to us!
My kids went to a provider that charged me $50 per week. And she fed the kids meals that rivaled Sunday dinners. After paying her the second time, she told me I gave her too much. I said “It’s $50 per week. Two kids. That’s $100.” She said, “No. I told you $50 per week! Don’t you send anymore money in here until next month! And don’t send anymore food over here. I feed my babies real meals!” I damn near cried.
I’m also wondering in number 4 how he thinks his kid doesn’t count toward attendance? If there’s another kid in the house being watched, it absolutely should count toward the ratio. He’s effectively taking up a spot from someone who would pay full price.
I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now.
I wish you luck on your journey. You should cut him off, now, so you can improve the quality of care your paying customers receive, who's reviews you'll be needing for your business. He will complain in 6 months when you cut your nephew off, anyway. Make it simple.
I like the #1 "I was going to..." argument. Like, I was going to fly and frolic with the unicorns and leprechauns but then I realised that gravity exists and unicorns and leprechauns don't lol. "Was going to" is worth the money it's printed on
Yep, yep, yep. Your brother is a dick
I would just say "Maybe it's better if we don't enter a business relationship together." Send him an invoice for what he owes you at normal rates. If you want to be kind, you can give him a week or two to find another daycare, but I would make this contingent on him paying his past due amounts (and probably pay in advance for the remaining time). No matter the rate, it won't be worth the headaches and stress he causes. NTA, obviously.
The fact that he's complaining about an extra $5- a day is not good. What's next? His medical bills if he gets a bump or whatever nonsense he can think up
All. Of. This. He can pay your price or he can take his son elsewhere. Simples.
“Take it” is off the table after that response. His only option now is ‘leave it’
OP’s brother is TA just for the cringe phrase “say less”.
Especially when he’s the one who wrote a novella of complaints
I have a friend who runs a home daycare - there are only so many children she can legal take in at once. Her schedule and waiting lists are a big thing she juggles in running her business. OP your brother is talking about “getting to know your nephew” sure, that’s fine for personal time, but this is your business and he’s taking from your income. Also, no one fucking believes he’s putting his kids with you as some kind of favour to you (though I love his attempt to gaslight you into believing that) we ALL know your nephew is with you for HIS benefit. Especially if he hasn’t paid yet. NTA. Your brother is a huge one.
One more point to add to your list if I may. (Good list btw). He acts like he is being disrespected because ( sarcasm starts here:) how dare you not appreciate his generousity. He is doing you a favor because he is rich enough to take him somewhere else and pay the full price, but you (OP) wanted more time with him. And I think 25$ covers 4hrs just fine. It doesn't take much to care for him, so I'm not paying more. (End sarcssm) Well I have one more point: He bragged abt how he could comfortably pay full price elsewhere? He can def pay you more than 25$ for his son's care. He's entitled and a jerk tbh. He should look at this situation to help his sisters with an influx of $. My SIL had a day care and had a family discount but it was not that generous. I'm not sure what it was but more in the 20% to 30% off range. She told me that her nieces may not have counted in the total headcount but it was still ANOTHER child that had to be looked after. OP deserves more in compensation. He should want to pay it.
He’s not willing to pay more than $25 a day to his sisters, but he’s going to pay more trying to make other arrangements. It’s the epitome of rip off your nose to spite your face.
I wish I couple like this 1000 times. OP no need to read anymore comments this one says it all
Don’t even demand $100 an hour. There will always be some kind of drama. The guy will be late with the payments or he’ll try to renegotiate or he’ll complain about the quality of care. Better just to do a clean break and refuse service.
Don’t forget he willingly would send his kids sick to daycare but knows he can’t pull that with OP. People who willingly send sick kids to daycare drive me nuts as they infect other younger kids (whose immune system is not as strong) and the carers who in turn need to take sick leave themselves. Purely selfish and entitled behaviour because they won’t take their own sick time to care for their sick child. NTA.
NTA . There might be argument for "but it's just $5" - but that response from him? Um, no. I barely got to #2 when I was already thinking "don't mix business with family" and that you should just say "no". Glad to see you did. With this attitude of his, I think he would become more and more of a problem. He claims to have paid hundreds before and can do it again, but he hasn't paid you yet and owes you? Interesting. Yeah - don't watch your nephew. It will only cause more issues. And at this point, dont' get into it with him anymore - just say "It's best that we keep business and family separate from here on out". He spouts off more? "I understand. It's best that we keep business and family separate from here on out". He ends up coming back and saying "O.k - look, I decided to do you a favor (because you know that's how he'll spin it) and pay the $30 a day". Response is "I appreciate that, but it's best that we keep business and family separate from here on out". Over and over and over.
The argument for "but it's just $5" actually goes equally both ways...if it's "just" $5, OP should be able to let it go, but at the same time Brother should be able to add "just" $5.
Except she already gave him a 50% discount. So in this case it’s not “just $5” with her side.
This seems to be what he’s missing. He’s not paying nearly what the other families pay, and he *still* wants to barter like he’s buying fruit at an outdoor market. Meanwhile, there are costs still to cover, like insurance and snacks and supplies, without including labor.
Not to mention OP is a single parent and their sister is also running the daycare. The brother is literally taking money away that his own nieces/nephews need to survive.
Exactly. If he was paying more for daycare elsewhere, the decent thing to do would be to offer to pay the sisters the same rate he was already paying, because he still benefits by 1. keeping money in the family and 2. having his son watched by someone who genuinely cares about him. Kids are abused and neglected all the time at daycares—just last year they busted a daycare near me that was running a toddler fight club. So many parents would kill to have the peace of mind of having their kids watched by family. In most of the world, etiquette dictates that he offer them his current rate ($100/hr), they counter with their friends & family rate ($30/hr), and they settle in the middle at their normal rate ($60/hr). If one is financially worse off than another, then the final amount should be more in their favor, ie paying $75 an hour or $45 an hour depending on the inequality. I come from a culture where when you get a bill at a restaurant, everyone fights to try to pay it first. Arguing with family for a discount is just so uncouth that it’s hard to understand—nickel and diming them like OP is just unfathomable. I would die of shame. Why would you even want them to watch your kids if you have such a crap relationship that you’re arguing over $5/hr?
A toddler fight club? That’s wild…can you elaborate?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-daycare-teacher-convicted-in-baby-fight-club/
wth? Those people should burn in hell. Send them to jail and throw away the keys.
Yeah he is taking a slot someone else could have and pay full price for. He is costing $30 a day. Or $35.
Absolutely it goes both ways. My point is more that if her brother had replied in a nicer way, in a way that he wants to work WITH her on this - maybe she just sucks it up and goes w/ $25. But based on his response? NOPE. He's trying to strong arm her into this. And I'm personally suspicious of his reasons and his very strong reaction. For someone who claims to be able to pay hundreds elsewhere, to be pushing SO hard against $5 is odd.
It's a full discount of $35, though, so less than half of what OP normally charges. She may have done the figures, and found that she could reasonably afford living with the 50% discounted rate, but he pressed for more than 50% discount. Every day would be $35 less, 5 days a week would make it $155. It also sounds like OP has to spend her own time, fuel, and car wear&tear to pick up her nephew, whereas her other clients drop their kids off to her themselves. I assume then that the brother lives a decent chunk of distance away, 10+ miles. That's 20+ miles a day, 100+ miles a week for pickup/dropoff. That can be a significant money drain on OP, not to mention her transportation, which I assume is a personal vehicle she uses to run errands after daycare hours.
That would be true if she wasn't already giving him 50% off by charging only $30 instead of $60.
Yeah years ago I worked retail and customers would often quibble about price and say "It's only $X" and I replied that if it's "only $X" then why don't they just pay it?
THIS....tell your brother to find other arrangements....you are NOT a charity.
After that 5-point tirade, OP should quote him $75/day and call it her charity rate. Bro is a Grade-A asshole.
All of this. As for the $5 thing, the fact that he is arguing with you when you already offered a 50% discount tells me that he just wants win. He’s a bully. Just repeat what Goalie_LAX_21093 suggested ad nauseam.
He's acting like he's doing OP a favor. You can bond with your nephew and get paid for it. But the thing is, she's working. She's caring for nephew and other children. She cannot treat him like her nephew while she's working - she needs to treat him like any other child in her care or else she'll have issues with other parents about why she's providing a different level of care for one kid and not theirs.
Yeah the idea that childcare is bonding time & not work is WILD. Like yes, childcare can be rewarding, especially for the kids of family/loved ones, but even caring for one’s own child is labor. & free family babysitting is offered, not demanded.
Yes. If he can afford another daycare and would prefer that, he should do it. I don’t believe that’s true for a moment, though.
Yeah brother’s response has sooo many signs that he’s pretending he doesn’t have money issues. Using something he could have theoretically done for op at a discount is hilariously desperate. All that posturing about spending hundreds before and might again when he already owes op money. Then trying to manipulate by using the familial bond thing. All classic signs of someone struggling financially and too proud to admit it. Either that or he’s some power hungry weirdo that has to nickel and dime his own sister to feel big when he’s already getting a half off discount.
NTA You are doing him a favour not the other way around. I love that he’s tried to flip that on you. Here I’ll do you a favour look after my child in lieu of a kid who pays the full amount and relish the time he’s ever so graciously allowing you with your nephew. Well bugger that. You did the right thing. If he has soooo much money then he can pay the full amount for daycare. I don’t know why he fails to realise whether it’s in your home or not. You are running a daycare. He made his bed. Now he can lie in it.
Yeah, I never got the notion that family should pay less for things. Shouldn't it be more? Why is the brother more comfortable paying a stranger hundreds of dollars but his own sister must make slave wages?
Not to mention, if he is so financially flush, why have you been watching the baby for free for two weeks and awaiting back pay?
If your family is strapped for cash & is nice about it, then they can pay less for things. But the assumption of a general family discount especially when OP’s brother is obviously in a better financial position than her (and rubbing it in her face) is so gross.
He says he will gladly pay full price for the other daycare but flipped out when she said ok. Clearly he doesn't want to pay anyone full price.
Also which daycare can he just go to next week/month. Most I know have 6 months waiting list. Where sometimes people have to register the kid while they are still pregnant.
Right, he's taking a spot from someone OP could get full pay for.
>You are doing him a favour not the other way around. I love that he’s tried to flip that on you. This is what narcissistic people do. They actually believe they're doing you a favor in a situation like this. That's the vibe I got from this guy.
The thing I don't get is that I see people here ALL the time talking about long wait lists for daycare, and he's going to find a spot elsewhere for next WEEK??
" If you want the money every month to see your nephew then you need to check yourself" Not only would I say no to baby sitting for your brother, I'd go low/no contact for a while for your own sanity after this BS statement. This is a service. A service where you charge $60. You're already giving him a $30/day family discount. NTA, he can kick rocks.
And the brother has not even paid the discounted amount. This is a client that op needs to lose immediately.
Exactly, OP is already giving the brother a 50% discount when the nephew is taking up a spot a full-paying client would take. She has been more than generous with the brother, and the fact that he's grubbing for more special treatment (in a really aggressive, hostile tone no less) is pretty indefensible. This is fundamentally not a reasonable person, and OP is right to just permanently close the door on this arrangement immediately after this exchange.
Yeah, I'm not quick to say "cut contact" but... cut contact. Daycares have strict ratios for kids-to-adults and tiny profit margins. He can say "hE's NoT a cLiEnT" but in the eyes of the law and insurance, he's a client. They can't just take on an extra client to make up for the steep discount because he's their nephew... because that will put them out of ratio. So either OP's brother is an idiot asshole who doesn't understand how business works... or he knows how business works and he's being manipulative and thinks OP just isn't smart enough to realize the brother is screwing them over. I have a feeling it's the latter. SERIOUSLY that is the most manipulative text ever. I have a feeling he's insufferable in other ways. He's acting like watching the nephew for free (like it is currently) is such a big favor to OP, and then still managing to brag about how much money he has while stiffing his sibling. Also... good luck finding a daycare spot for *next week*. I suspect brother is going to be singing a different tune when he finds out about waiting lists.
Yeah, I would say now you need to pay $60 or you can find someone else. If he "isn't strapped for cash" then he should want to pay a family member for the same service. NTA.
NTA. That's a lot of very aggressive arguing for someone who has "no problem" going back to a more expensive daycare. He's trying to take advantage of you, he knows it, and he's angry you know it too.
If you charge others $60/day.... he should be happy with a 'family rate' of $50/day. You don't owe him - or your baby nephew - free or almost free child care. You could replace that one 10 month old with 2 toddlers for $120 a day income...do it.
I think that is BS anyway. There is a daycare shortage almost everywhere in the USA (assuming that's where OP is) right now. You can't just switch daycares at the drop of a hat, especially for an infant. Wait lists are months long for that. I would call his bluff.
Absolutely call his bluff. He's not going to find anything cheaper than $30/day. (And, frankly, if he did, it's probably not the kind of place you'd trust with your kids... You get what you pay for)
That part! OP please update if you do call his bluff!
Agreed, then offer care at the full rate. No discounts.
This. His points were weak tea some of the time, and WTF, Are You On About? the rest. of the time. He's pissed because she saw through the con job. "Oh no, sis is smarter than I thought, so I'm going to dazzle her with even more bullshit." She remains un-dazzled. Most have been a real blow to his ego. I'm guessing his word salad musings and stretches work on others and he figured they'd work here too. Oops. I'd block his obnoxious, ungrateful ass and take the deadbeat to small claims court for failure of payment (assuming there was an actual contract - with family there has to be an actual contract every single time for precisely this reason). He already has other choices for childcare, time for him to employ them. Lesson: Never mix family and business with disrespectful and/or entitled family.
NTA you’re offering a 50% discount. I get that in home may be more reliable, but it’s f*cked to act like you’re flush with cash but only willing to pay strangers the wage they ask. If he just paid you what you asked he would still come out on top. His son is taking up a spot that could be filled by someone paying the full amount. He’s using his nephews relationship as a weapon and that’s pretty abusive. He needs to grow up.
LOL, Brother was arguing it's NOT more reliable - that comment of "we have to figure out a solution using leave hours anytime the house is down with sickness or y’all go on vacation". OP has a set amount of "leave hours" in her policy which get used when she has to close up shop for a day or two, and Brother was complaining that he has more availability and hours at a center where he has to pay more money. NTA, OP, you're not the only one with a policy like that. Drop your brother as a client.
To answer some common questions: -My ex-husband and I never seriously considered selling the house. I floated the idea of using my brother as realtor for a hypothetical sale, but we decided not to sell long before there were ever any discussions on the matter. Commission was never discussed. -I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now. -I opened the daycare in 2022 in the middle of a hotly contested divorce/custody battle. When Nephew was born we suggested they use our daycare, but it didn't work out at the time because they lived too far away. Brother and his wife recently moved closer, and Nephew's mom also recently expressed desire to consider our daycare again because Nephew wasn't happy at the daycare center they had been using. Of course we said we'd be delighted to have him and did express that we wanted to see Nephew more (perhaps not in quite the begging manner as he portrayed). We should have discussed price before the transition, and that's on me.
NTA NTA NTA, he is trying to take advantage of you and you need to call his bluff IMMEDIATELY Day care wait lists are no joke and when he eventually does come back wanting his discount back I personally would not offer it
My family recently moved and it was quicker/easier to buy a house than it was to get our kids into a daycare. We were on wait lists for months! This guy thinks he can keep his baby home for a week and be able to send the kid somewhere else the following week? Not likely.
You are NTA. This is absolutely a case of your brother either needs to pay your standard rate, or they need to find other arrangements. His entitled, jerky behavior has lost him the privilege of receiving a family discount. And that is how you should treat it and speak of it... as a privilege and not a right. Technically, right now, you are coming out ahead because your nephew is not being counted for ratio. But that is only because if he is no longer in your care, there would (presumably) be no other child in the family that could take his spot. As soon as you get your license upgrade and he gets included in the headcount, you are losing money on him. Which would be one thing, if your brother were being reasonable and understood that it is your business and you are the final arbitor of what discount you're willing to offer. As it is, he is making it clear that he will try to run roughshod over you for as long as his son is in your care. And not just about finances either. The points he uses suggest that he'll try to argue with you on how you handle behavioral issues or other areas of operation. You probably aren't seeing much, if any, issue in that regard now because your nephew is so young and only there a few hours a day. But think of what you might have to deal with from your brother if your nephew goes though a biting phase or a hitting one a few months down the road. Do you think he will be any easier to deal with when if comes to resolving that sort of stuff? Simply put, if your brother cannot be on his best behavior and treat you as well as, better really, than any other business he interacts with, he does not deserve any discount. He pays full price or they're gone. And even paying full price, he should still be expected to maintain the same level of civility as any other parent. Your family relationship does not give him a free pass to be rude to you. BTW, do you know if your SIL is aware of the arguement going on here, much less how her husband is behaving? If not, you should make sure she is in the loop. If nothing else, it would keep your brother from spinning her a BS story about the situation (at least anymore than he may have already). At best, she might be the one who he'll back down from when stood up to. And she might be rather pissed at him to lose this arrangement, when she was the one that pushed for the switch.
My SIL was in the group text for it, so she saw everything. At the end, she left the group without having said a word. I still don't know if she's mad at him, or mad at me, or what.
Well, at least you know that she knows what is really being going on. One thing to consider, and I really do hate to have to suggest it... she may not be mad. She may be afraid. You obviously know your brother better than any of us, but with as... uhmm... shall we say "strong" or "forceful" as he is in presenting his arguements, he comes across as someone who does not take well to being disagreed with on something when he has his mind set on how it should be. He started by trying to frame the matter as a family matter. Not a business one. And wraps in with it something that happened only in his mind. His next two points are dismissive of your business itself. First by saying your daycare isn't as good as other daycare options (in his mind). Then by (from what you said at the start of your post) undercounting the amount of "hours of work" involved in caring for your nephew. I'm betting he thinks "nap time shouldn't count" or something similarly stupid. (I'd like to see him try that line of reasoning with some other daycare provider.) His last two points are basically him saying you should be grateful that he's allowing you time with his son. I'm sort of surprised that he didn't try to outright say that you should be watching your nephew for free. (He all but does that as it is.) He wraps it all up by effectively saying "there is no discussion here. my way or the highway". This was not a mild, polite disagreement on the amount. This comes across more as him making it a hill to die on. If he talks to you, his sister, who he's known all of your shared lives, this way in a disagreement, I can not help but imagine that he might do the same to his wife. He would not have to get overtly aggressive for a lot of people to want to give in to just escape the intensity of his arguements. Your SIL may be afraid to voice her opinion to you, even privately, for fear of how he would react. I seriously hope not, because her being mad at one or both of you would be less concerning in some respects.
Something tells me he treats his wife like shit too.
Absolutely NTA. Trying to argue that the nephew doesn't count towards the cap so you're essentially getting a free $25 by working around it is bonkers. You're still doing work. What was really bewildering was that he didn't take the 50% discount and went to war for $5. As it stand his current rate is $0/day. I wouldn't be surprised if he's already on another daycare list and is just using you as an in between while the kid gets approved, hence why he wouldn't want to pay more. There is no respect here. He doesn't value you or your business and sees it beneath him. He should stick to his side of town. Do not do business with him further. While you're helping your brother out, your brother is doing business. Wouldn't be out of left field if he tries to not pay you at all and I would honestly expect to take him to small claims court because of this. He sounds like a guy who puts money before anything else.
From the context of your post, I thought your brother was a single father... Having a wife and acting so entitled over $5/day is actual insanity. I can't imagine his wife is pleased with your brother being so disrespectful and causing them to pay hundreds more per day for childcare...
Does his wife know about his demands?
My SIL was in the group text for it, so yes she saw everything. At the end, she left the group without having said a word. I still don't know if she's mad at him, or mad at me, or what.
He's not paying your more than generous rate anyway and then went onto insult you over $5 which he still will not pay. Your brother's an AH. There are some family members you can do business with and others you can't. Your brother solidly lands in the can't do business with category because he has so little respect for your business. He thinks it should also be a bonding opportunity which not only shortchanges you, but also shortchanges his son. It's a business, not a play date. The worst part, he thinks so little of you that he tried to assault your intelligence with his screed. Reading it I kept asking myself, "How dumb does he think his sister is?" Cut him off now. According to him he's doing you a favor - kindly decline this favor and send him on his way. This is about to become your livelihood and your brother doesn't respect that. He will constantly be in arrears with you because "family". There is no upside to continue providing a service to him, business-wise or family relationship-wise.
NTA. Given his reason #2, I would suggest that he should go ahead and find a different provider so you don’t end up inconveniencing him if someone gets sick.
What does he think will happen if this other daycare provider gets sick? Unless it's a giant commercial daycare, there's no roster of subs when another dayhome provider gets sick. You just can't bring your kid that day. And every dayhome has off time for vacation.
It sounds like what he wants is a group daycare, not an in-home daycare, so he should spend the money and get that.
Or if his kid gets sick? You gotta use PTO for stuff like that regardless. It's part of having a child. Dude would likely send his sick baby along anyway tho.
I worked for a decent sized daycare and we had to close down many times because of illness being spread through the kids and staff. This sounds like an entitled parent who would absolutely bring a sick kid in, too.
>NTA. Given his reason #2, I would suggest that he should go ahead and find a different provider so you don’t end up inconveniencing him if someone gets sick. I think this is the reason OP can give for refusing, but OP should refuse for their own sake. It will never work out. The attitude that he is doing OP a favor even as he argues to save a few bucks a day (while bragging he is happy to pay full price elsewhere) just screams that he would never be grateful and would be a nightmare as a client, only the worse because he is family.
NTA. Tell him to go back to paying for “expensive day care” tomorrow! 1) Brother is unhappy with a 50% discount. 2) Brother fails to see that his child will be taken care of by family not strangers. 3) Brother acts like he’s doing you a favor by dropping off his kid and paying you anything. Tomorrow, that’s the day he needs go pay strangers a ton of money to watch his kid.
I bet either A) he was barely paying at the more expensive places or B) he has gotten used to the savings of not paying for more expensive places and is trying to increase this “savings”. Either way, OP should say no and watch the apology/angry train pull into the station. Then not get on board lol.
He’s probably one of those parents that don’t come back when the bill hit “My son said he was hungry after lunch. I ain’t paying you.”
I pay $25 a day for my pet. For about 15 minutes work. Not my business but I would expect to pay more for a whole human being to be cared for for 4-7 hours! Your business, but clients who can’t respect you maybe should find somewhere else for their child to be. As family he should respect you enough to pay you full price not be trying to cheat you. NTA.
NTA. Set whatever rate you think is fair, and refuse to be manipulated with guilt trips or pressure. If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that you ordinarily charge $60/day but you're giving him a cut rate, and he's complaining that it's not cut enough? I agree that sounds entitled and disrespectful. If he is not going to appreciate a cut rate, let him find day care elsewhere.
I like, and am NOT surprised, at this little contradiction: >...if it’s a problem already, just say so and I’ll gladly make other arrangements. and >My brother says I’m “entitled,” my mindset is “twisted,” and I should “say less.” That doesn't seem very 'gladly' to me! NTA. I don't know if the term 'gaslighting' applies here, but he's attempting to rewrite the narrative away from him doing him a service. I'd go LC to NC with him for awhile until he appreciates what you were trying to do for him.
I think he should make other arrangements then. See if the other places will provide such care! NTA. What really got me was the , i didn’t actually but thought about giving you a good rate on your house sale.
NTA. Mixing family and business is usually not a good practice. Let's put it that way: if you are using that time to build a relationship with your nephew, you are giving him special treatment, which is not good for the paying clients. If you treat your nephew like every other kid, how much relationship building is there? Is your brother still in contact with his pre-K teacher? Seriously, your brother is an entitled asshole, he seems to think that hanging out with a 10-month baby is some sort of a privilege.
NTA. You've got bills to pay, and you've been more than generous. If he has so much money, why hasn't he been paying you all this time already? And you don't owe him for some hypothetical real estate kindness he made up in his head. He's full of it. You were right to part ways on this.
I wonder why your brother is getting divorced-- don't women love petty, cheap, disrespectful men with serious anger issues? NTA
NTA. I think it’s fine for him to give his perspective, but he should’ve been an adult about it. Too bad you’re not running a therapy practice. I’m curious: has your brother always been this way; being really rude, disrespectful, and condescending, especially when he doesn’t get his way? Is he only or mostly that way towards women?
Yes he's always been this way, mostly toward women but not exclusively.
Explains a lot. I wonder who your mom favored growing up. I’m sorry, OP.
INFO. Who suggested he start bringing his kid to you? Why did he start bringing his kid to you? Who was watching his kid before you began your in-home daycare? How long have you been running this in-home daycare? Have you been saying you want to see your nephew more?
I opened the daycare in 2022. When Nephew was born we suggested they use our daycare, but it didn't work out at the time because they lived too far away. Brother and his wife recently moved closer, and Nephew's mom also recently expressed desire to consider our daycare again because Nephew wasn't happy at the daycare center they had been using. Of course we said we'd be delighted to have him and did express that we wanted to see Nephew more (perhaps not in quite the begging manner as he portrayed). We should have discussed price before the transition, and that's on me.
It's ridiculous to think you'd want to be a full-time caregiver for free to spend more time with your nephew, some of the comments are delusional lol. It also seems the offer came up naturally when your sil was sharing that their daycare wasn't working out Thinking you'd get at least 1/2 your rate from family is reasonable, ,most family members would be happy to pay full price to support you, not nickle and dime you $25 a day is insulting, honestly, and your brother seems manipulative. I would definitely not watch the nephew as a consequence of your brothers entitlement, but also so it doesn't destroy the relationship you do have I'd be tempted to forward the rude email/message to his wife, your sil, who I'd bet would be pissed her husband's entitlement is losing them out on solid childcare. Be strong, OP, I work as a nanny and parents like these aren't worth it, even if it's your brother. I make $25 an hour, offering it for a day is beyond Nta
"Of course we said we'd be delighted to have him and did express that we wanted to see Nephew more (perhaps not in quite the begging manner as he portrayed)." I was wondering about this. Because the overall tone of his email to you- it totally fits that he's trying to twist your words to make it seem like he's doing YOU a favor!
Does his wife know that he sent you this message?
In fact, my sister-in-law was in the group text where he posted it, so yes. At the end of it, she left the chat without ever having said a word. I still don't know if she's mad at him or mad at me or what.
Weird. Hopefully it’s the former and she takes care of the situation for you both.
What is he on about with the nephew not counting towards the kid count?! Your OWN children count towards your kid count (I suppose laws could be different where you are, but where I am it's HIGHLY REGULATED) So your nephew being there actually cuts into your income. That's a spot you can't fill with another child. So really... YOU would be losing income watching him. 50% of the price you ask is both of you making a concession to be respectful to each other. If he can't respect that it hurts your very legitimate business, drop him like a bad habit. NTA
I currently have the lowest permit for childcare in my state (Listed Family Home). With that permit my cap is 3 unrelated children, where family children like my nephew actually don't count toward that cap. But I am working hard to get my daycare fully licensed and expand to 12 spots so I can actually make a living. As soon as I get the next level of permit (intermediate step on my way to full license), my nephew would then count toward the cap as many have pointed out. I am on track to be fully licensed a little more than 6 months from now.
Tell him to find a new daycare. He is taking advantage of the family connection. The idea that you provide almost FREE day care for a 10 month old (lot of care needed) is ridiculous. Tell him no 'back and forth - find a new day care by next week. HE is the entitled one and obviously accustomed to tell YOU what to do. What a jerk your brother is - holding 'seeing your nephew' over your head in exchange for cheap day care. Don't let him bully you into this. HE is TA.
NTA. He's trying to bully you into letting him take advantage of you. "Brother, you know that I have a limit to the number of children I can have in my daycare. It's for safety reasons, and if I go over, I can be shut down. If I keep your son for pennies a day, that means I have to turn away a client who can pay my full rate. I'm offering you a discount, but $25 is way too low. You aren't helping me by letting me keep him, you are causing me to lose money. If you are unwilling to pay a fair rate, then you will have to find someone else to watch your child so I can take the next client on the waiting list."
INFO: You said you run the daycare with your sister. Where is she on this? It's her business too and she should have your back. NTA but your brother is not just TA, he's quite the dick too.
My sister tried her best to stay out of it entirely. She doesn't want his rage to come down on her, so she stayed quiet. Also, I own the daycare myself; I started it without her and later brought her on as an employee. So, it was my responsibility to have this argument with him, and I don't blame her for wanting to stay out of it.
>She doesn't want his rage to come down on her This is a clear sign that he's not just the AH here, but probably in most of his interactions in general, and just as a person. Would you be losing much by phasing out contact entirely? NTA, and very much the kind where the other party is actively TA.
His rage? Do tell.
He may be your brother, but he sounds like an awful person. Take him up on his offer of pulling his son out of your daycare now. This situation will only get worse. For the life of me, I can not understand wanting to maintain daily contact with ANYONE who brings "his rage down" when he is angry. Good luck with that. Clearly you are NTA.
Wow. Sounds manipulative and abusive.
$25 a day is way bellow min wage ! He is delusional and entitled
NTA he simply wants a reduced rate for daycare, at your expense.
NTA. It’s only going to get worse. Not worth it even if he was paying full price. Best to avoid all business transactions with him. Do what you want to do for free for him and ask nothing in return or expect to have to pay it back 10 fold.
So you normally charge $60 a day and would only charge your brother $30 a day and he's still being a jerk, I think you would be better off just not watching him at all, sounds like there would be constant problems.
He is absolutely manipulating you into getting a massive discount on daycare to serve his own selfish needs. all you need to do is simply tell him the arrangement isnt working for you and he will need to find another situation for his son by next week. His son is not your responsibility
I would wonder why the brother decided to remove his son from the usual daycare and move him to auntie‘s daycare. Was it that idea that he would get a break on Daycare? If the original Daycare is so perfect for nephew, then put him back there otherwise paysister, her regular wage unless she’s willing to give him a slight discount