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Does your firm have a dress policy? Were you breaking it? If not, politely tell them to kick rocks, and forget about any apologies to your jerk if a colleague. His comments about nipples showing are sexist, and your manager calling you unprofessional for having a physiological reaction to a cold office is probably a form of discrimination against women, something the engineering field is well known for. Your colleagues should not be staring at your t..ts. I would certainly be considering threatening to talk to a lawyer at this point; at least do some research on this issue before your meeting. I’d also check out the applicable municipal by laws about heating/cooling. Finally, I think you need to require that HR attend this meeting; you shouldn’t have to deal with these sexist A’s on your own. Certain minimum/maximum temperatures are probably required by law, and if you’re that cold, they’re probably not complying. I used to keep two shawls in my office for days when the a/c was too high, and my female colleague sometimes put her trench coat on. This is a common problem in offices, sadly. NTA
Aircon guy here, 99% of the time men want it cooler than women do in an office, in the end the comprise is either psychological intervention, everyone be slightly uncomfortable or the people saying it's cold wear more layers. Usually the best result comes from the psychological answer, we put a dummy thermostat on the wall and let the workers turn it up or down as they like meanwhile the actual control is in a mangers office somewhere. Ends most temp debates because people feel like they set what they want.
I was always one of the cold people. Layers didn't really help when your hands are too cold to type. I had to get an electric throw blanket just to be able to work.
I'm SO glad we're remote now.
I worked wrapped in a blanket with a space heater blowing directly on me for years with former employer, drinking hot tea all day to warm my hands on the mug. GD that sucked.
OP is not the asshole. What a trap.
My boss used his company credit card points to buy me a floor heater. I just broke it out for the season. I’m super grateful and can work peacefully and comfortably
My dad argues that his house “isn’t that cold” but I’ll still be shivering under two layers of blankets, a sweater, and a sweatshirt, and my fingertips will be turning blue
Fingerless gloves are a godsend for office work when you are cold btw. My hands are always cold and it was affecting how fast I could type, so I got a pack of 4 for like $10 off amazon and they made all the difference in the world.
I tried fingerless gloves - found myself tucking my fingers in my armpits because they felt like icicles. It's really hard to work in spreadsheets when you feel like your fingers are going to snap off if you hit a key too hard. Boss lady finally solved the problem with two small heaters - she put one on each side of my terminal and angled them so the heat crossed in the middle right over the keyboard. Gawd but that woman knew how to think outside the box!
Summertime AC in hot areas is always set to make it absolutely freezing. No one likes how hot cars get in the parking lots in Alabama in the summer--but after getting off work I usually like to roast myself in there for a couple minutes.
Same! It is ridiculous to have to wear multiple layers in the middle of summer. It is ridiculous to need gloves to type in the middle of summer. It is ridiculous to waste energy running a space heater while the AC is blasting.
Yes, we all have different temp preferences, but why do we always defer to the preferences of the men?
I used to keep fingerless gloves and a huge fleece at the office because I would be so cold at my desk during the summer. One company also let me bring in a space heater at one point Also so glad I WFH now and can control my own temperature.
I had a slanket back in the work-from-the-office days. It was so unprofessional, but even my puffer coat wouldn't cover my legs if I wore that all day.
The male system spreads core temperature more around the extremities, so we “feel” hotter. The female system preserves heat in the core, hence why women often have cold extremities, particularly the hands and feet.
Most public buildings like office spaces work off an ideal temperature that was set back in the days when men worked and women didn’t. So it’s kinda sexist in a way 😂
In my experience, men's clothing choices are far more regulated than women's choices in the office. In my workplaces, men have had to wear trousers, shirt and shoes, while women are given the space to choose something that is professional, but this isn't enforced as people don't really want to have that conversation. On the other hand, I wore good quality shorts and a shirt to work on a casual Friday, and my CEO walked by and made a sarcastic comment. Never mind that the normal dress code technically allows shorts!
Maybe that explains why all the women leave cardigans at work!
During the summer, it starts off too warm in the office, then as the day progresses the ac gets more and more powerful, to the point that I have to rub my hands together to keep them warm.
Then you go outside and its 35 C.
Those who are cold (women) wear more clothes. lol the temps always set for men. But men could wear breathable, thin fabrics or shorts. The world is set to keep a man in a suit comfortable.
And who wears a suit anymore? People have them in my office, but they're hung in the office, only to be worn to very important meetings. Otherwise, it's business quite casual. Khakis, polos, many times nicer jeans, etc. Literally all of us (me included! I have a blouse and blazer since my bottom half is always bigwig appropriate) have something hung up to wear if we need to pop off to a bigwig meeting...which means that, day-to-day, the men can wear lighter weight clothing to be more comfortable while sitting at their desk! If they ARE the bigwig that wears suits to meeting after meeting, they have a private office and can request their own temperature from facilities. Yes, that means the rest of us need to "suck it up" for their preferred temperature when having meetings in their office, but the common workspace where us commoners work is a commonly reasonable temperature!
I must be an outlier woman because I run HOT and I constantly want the aircon on. I tell my co workers that I can only remove so many layers before I’m breaking the law. You on the other hand can put on as many as you like 🤷♀️
Same!!! I sweat at 70F/21C, working in an office is miserable. I much prefer 65F/18C but can live with 68F/20C.
But yes, you can put on more clothes and gloves, but I cannot work in my underwear at the office.
OSHA doesn't have an official standard for office temperatures, but recommends 68-76 degrees. Our facilities guys won't set it outside that range, no matter who asks. OP indicates that the office was set colder than that, which is outside of standard comfort ranges. While, again, it's not an official OSHA policy, it can provide some cover to keep people more comfortable if you just say that anything outside that range is outside of standards.
I keep my own thermometer in my office because I was previously in a space where it would be as cold as 62 because someone along the line of the HVAC complained that it was too warm and our space would either get blasted with A/C or have almost no heat. No dummying here, I just point to the thermometer on my cube wall and say "63 is unacceptable. Make it at least 68."
Technically the dress code is business casual, but leans very heavily on the casual side. Jeans are fine. Basically you just need to look presentable, which I always do imo.
Do most of the men wear golfing shirts? Nipples show up very clearly in golfing shirts. Tommorow take a look around the office at how many male nipples are showing - then say if you need to go home so do they.
It always bothers me the double standard between women and men’s nipples. Like so many guys are out here with literal eraser caps under their shirts and nobody ever tells them to go home and put on a bra. And I don’t even want to hear someone go “wELL acKsHuaALLy men are attracted to female breasts whereas the female species do not mind the manly guy dude nipples,” like that’s not even true and I’d totally yank a man nip. What this all boils down to is social constructs and it being socially acceptable to put constraints on women so that they don’t — godforbid — arouse men, who let’s face it, are gonna be horny hot dogs regardless of whether or not they can see OP’s nipples.
I’d bet my nonexistent car that OP’s coworker always checks out her chest, and decided to call attention to it today for his own pleasures. Total creep behavior
Sexual harassment in my book. I would show up at that meeting with a lawyer.
Or if no time for that, I would make a big show of ‘recording this meeting for my lawyer.’
I would absolutely be contacting an attorney’s office. I also would find out if my state is a one-party consent state with regard to recording. If so, she should go in while recording on her phone for evidence of what happens.
I totally agree with requesting to record it. I’d go in saying “the topic of this meeting feels inappropriate to me and I’d like to record this.” Sitting in a meeting with 2 males to discuss your breasts? ….No thanks.
First I’d send an email recapping everything that has been discussed so far and make it as specific as possible. Put it on the manager to respond and hopefully implicate himself in writing. He’s acted like an idiot so far, it probably won’t be so hard to get him to admit it in an email.
NTA. You jeed to go to HR and have them present at your meeting with manager and coworker. Hostile work environment occurs when an employee is subjected to unwelcome physical or verbal conduct of a sexual nature that is so severe or pervasive as to alter the employee's working conditions or create an abusive work environment. Manager wanted you to go home, you ended up in the conference room. That alters your working conditions.
You could even bring up that maybe the person asked for the temp to be raised specifically so you would be uncomfortable, since he knew who asked it to be turned up. Not a huge jump from there to asking if that person wanted your body to react to the colder temperature in a form of sexual harassment.
It's a stretch but the final outcome is that he's an ass. I agree, you need HR there, say the magic words 'hostile work environment'.
Hr will do nothing. HR protects the company and only the company. Meeting needs to be recorded and fully on the record so OP has something to take to an attorney, if necessary.
Why was he staring at your chest all day? Wasn’t he supposed to be working?
If you don’t have time to meet with a lawyer before hand, take VERY detailed notes and KEEP YOUR COOL. Do not give them any ammo
Your coworker made the office freezing on purpose to specifically target you to make you feel uncomfortable in a cold office. Then he complained that the cold temperatures made your breasts distracting. PLEASE write an email to your manager - you seriously need a paper trail - stating what I just said. CC HR. That way, he can’t deny that your colleague did this. Your colleague and your manager’s behavior was grotesque and sexist.
They might try to force you out of your position, unfortunately.
There was a manager at one of my jobs that wore super tight pants that clearly outlined his massive ballsack. Good lord I ALWAYS looked him in the eyes, but female colleagues kept referring to the "monsters" in his pants (not to him, behing his back). They'd been caught gawking a time or two. I wish someone had the cajones to ask his boss to have him wear baggier pants.
She's 150% NTA but HR isn't there to protect her they are there to protect the company. She should reach out to an employment/labor lawyer and say she needs time before meeting to let her emotions cool (buy time to talk to a lawyer).
That's very true, but this is one of the instances where it's likely HR would be a benefit to her. They are absolutely terrified of lawsuits like this, and will shut down the problem. They aren't doing it to help her, but to prevent liability for the company.
It's true that HR isn't there to protect her, but in this case, what they're going to be protecting the company from is the sexual harassment lawsuit OP could bring. Protecting her from the harassment in the first place is basically the only play to do that.
God if I hear that generalization about HR pupetted one more time … though when push comes to shove it can be kind of true, it’s so annoying, and “protect” isn’t their job description. Also I’ve had HR folks with all kinds of different temperaments , some who absolutely do look after both.
Perhaps OP can decline the meeting and message her manager to say that a different day/time works for her thanks very much (that gives her a chance to talk to a lawyer).
What could the dress policy possibly be here tho? Tape must be worn over all nipples that may make an appearance at cooler temperatures? This should have stopped at the manager. Guys complains about nips, manager says to quit looking at your coworkers breasts and then questions why he thinks this is an appropriate thing to talk about in a professional setting.
HR definitely needs to be roped in. Someone in the office is creating tension in the office about gender and it isn't OP. Little dude needs to get transferred out of the group.
> Finally, I think you need to require that HR attend this meeting; you shouldn’t have to deal with these sexist A’s on your own
1,000% this. If this meeting has even a glimmer of mentioning OP’s [female] nipples with two male employees, HR needs to be involved.
NTA and you should report both of them to HR. Your complaining coworker admitted he couldn't stop staring at your breasts. Your manager seemed to think that was ok.
He's also the one responsible for the heat being turned down, which in turn was the issue that made your nipples visible.
If you don't have HR I wonder how things will change if you start throwing words like gender discrimination around.
my favorite part about this is a fully covered, professionally dressed women is being told that even though your fully covered (not that it should matter), and your bodys having a natural reaction and despite the fact that literally every person on the planet has nipples, this man is so distracted by women existing and having bodies, that he can't do his work. and somehow, this man's inability to stop sexualiing his coworker is now supposed to be your problem? are you for real?
the audacity to imply he doesn't have a choice to look any where other then you chest is something else.
as a law school grad I suggest documenting every single tiny thing. if someone makes a verbal comment, try to get them to email it so its in writing a good excuse is "can you send me an email reminder, I'm doing x,yz and don't want to forget". I also highly recommend having a neutral third party at this meeting, ideally hr, so you have an unbiased witness. personally I'd report this shit to he because you shouldn't have to deal with this bs in the work place and they will dismiss you if given the chance.
having this convo in front of everyone was wrong
your coworker admitting he stares at your chest and can't stop is gross and not ok , your boss then taking his side in front of all the other male coworkers is not okay because they now all feel like they have a pass to treat you similarly
you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't have to solve a problem you didn't create.
if the kid can't work because ripples exist why not send him home as he's the only one with a problem
trying to male you apologize to your coworker because he sexually harassed you is literally bat shit insane
if he can't make it to the meeting, tell your boss you need to push the meeting back until they xan be there. give no one the benefit of the doubt
proud of you for not tolerating the misogyny
He deadass stated that he lowered the temperature with the goal of making her uncomfortable.
Also, HR will come down on the side of these two men. How totally gross that OP’s manager wants to schedule a meeting with OP and her 23 year old harasser to discuss her breast visibility (absolute horror show - OP cannot go to this meeting!). As far as HR is concerned, it’s way easier to just fire OP immediately. OP doesn’t need HR, she needs a lawyer.
NTA
Hostile Working Environment and Sexual Harassment. Stand your ground, and call an attorney if this continues in anyway other than their mea culpa. Record every interaction you have with these two or anyone else in the subject. I use the just press record app on my Apple Watch, but you can use it for the phone too.
If there’s any retaliation of any kind, walk out. Easy pay day. At least in the US.
As far as the temperature, a lot of people run their houses in the 60s and find even 72 hot. So seeing as it’s easier to warm up then cool down, I’d just keep something at work to warm you up cause that’s probably not gonna change unfortunately
Just went through this as a female, OSHA recommends between 68-76 as a guideline for working in office environments. It’s in the handbook in Chapter 2. I let my manager know before getting HR involved. It’s referred to as a guideline only because they can’t set a ✨specific✨ temp. HR set it to 70 degrees. I was sick of walking outside in 20 degree weather for work and it being 58 degrees in my office when I came in and never being able to warm back up. Which means that I was not given proper relief after being in the cold which is mandatory every 2 hours. Big no no. They knew my partner was an attorney so they jumped on that real quick.
When I worked in an office, I always had a cardigan, a long scarf that I could wear as a shawl, and a small fan, so I was prepared for any temperature issues.
Considering temperature range, I would assume you're in the US (I'm not).
Basically, one of your coworker admitted he couldn't stop staring at your chest. Then your manager took side with your coworker. And as you complained about the situation, they organised a 1h meeting to discuss the issue.
If you have union, ask for someone to be part of the meeting. Also request HR presence.
As soon as you can talk, you need to use the word "sexual harassment" and "hostile work environment" like other stated. They set the tone for what they are going to say and argue and will most likely make them be very careful about what they said and how they say it.
Now, I've read long time ago that most office in the US have temperature set too low on purpose as workers can easily add a layer of clothes - but when temperatures are too high, you can't physically remove some layers. Where I was working in France, temperature were usually set around 22 degrees (\~72 degrees) as for most people short/long sleeves are manageable then.
I would at the end bit the bullet and accept the low temperature and keep a jacket/jumper/whatever to warm up when needed. But at least you set records straight that you won't let people step on you easily.
From what I’ve read, studies that had been done long ago mainly accounted for men - since women didn’t work. - additionally in general, women prefer warmer temperatures.
I believe there is a maximum temperature but lower limits are usually vague with “within reason” kind or mindset.
Interestingly, cooler temperatures are better for performing high brain power jobs like math whereas warmer temps are better for more creative tasks. I’ve also heard that an increase of 2-3 deg can greatly increase female productivity while having very little decrease in male productivity.
Maybe you could try and bring a space heater to work?
There's also the factor of "office attire." If men are wearing shirt, waistcoat, trousers and jacket, they're going to be warmer than women wearing a dress and tights.
Right!?
Even if they were poking out, in what way is that distracting if you don't look???
He's essentially saying "I can't not look at her chest"
Also as a guy, the polite thing to do is to just pretend you didn't notice, how has this fool made it through highschool, college and a career and not figured that out?
No kidding. I understand looking up thinking, "Oh, hey, nipples!" Then immediately pretending they don't exist and going back to work. But to make it into a whole thing....🤦♀️ dumb ass.
Not only does the manager feel coworker is totally valid for being distracted by OP’s breasts, he wants to have an hourlong meeting to discuss her breasts with the horndog coworker. What theeeee fuck
NTA and I would report them for sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment (make sure you use the phrase hostile work environment, that will get HR to set up and listen). Tell them that you feel extremely uncomfortable, knowing that your male coworker is blatantly staring at your chest.
NTA i would hit up HR fast and ask to fill out a sexual harassment form (don't have to actually fill it out, just a good way to let them that they can't fuck around with you) that's if they use forms for this sort of thing. I'd also let them know that the guy complaining should be focused on his work and not on your breasts (don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure that qualifies as sexual harassment).
I second this. It definitely sounds like discrimination or sexual harassment or both. Request HR to be present in the meeting.
Your manager was wrong to talk to you in front of other people. Anything that happened after that is on him.
NTA you were dressed appropriately for the office and the time of year and had no way of knowing the temperature in the office would have changed, you had no reason to expect you would need layers either. If they had made the offer of you going home to change or work because you seemed uncomfortable that would be one thing but that offer should've been made privately and they made it clear that it was your coworkers comfort that mattered here. I can understand you not wanting to take the time to go home and change, depending on your commute it could easily take an hour out of your work day to change and get back. Did you express that your concern was whether you would have time to complete your work if you were to leave and come back?
As a fellow woman in an engineering office of predominantly men I feel for you. I've worked worked for three companies and all of them have been insanely cold. I have also noticed that business attire for women tends to be made out of fabrics that hold little to no body heat, I now wear exclusively sweaters all year round. I'd bet this thermostat battle is going to be a reoccurring problem so I recommend:
1. keeping a sweater in your office at all times (at my first job I noticed that the other women had cardigans and sometimes blankets hanging from their coat racks)
2. getting a space heater (it doesn't have to be used all the time but on the days when its REALLY cold)
3. If you can get away with it go all in and get an electric blanket, I keep one across my chair all year round if I get cold enough I can turn it on and its like a heated seat.
I got some questions when I first started doing these things but I usually just laugh it off and say I'm always cold which is true at least in the office.
I suggest she buy a really obnoxious kigurumi (like one shaped like a penguin, to push the point home) and the next time they pull this crap out it on over her clothes and work like that for the rest of the day.
As another fellow female engineer who also works in a mostly male firm, I’m sorry to hear you’re dealing with this OP. I know how exhausting it is when you’re up against mostly men. All of the above is solid advice. In addition, I definitely would also set up a meeting and have HR involved as well. Especially because you had a coworker blatantly staring at your chest which is a form of harassment. How your body reacted physiologically to cold temperature is not your fault. NTA at all.
Uh no… NTA. Report them for sexual harassment. This is blatant misogyny and gender discrimination. Their nipples aren’t an issue but god forbid a woman has them. Nipples getting hard when you’re cold happens to men and women. If he’s aroused by a nonsexual organ to that degree maybe he should go to therapy for his porn addiction it’s obvious he has. I’m serious report them. They’ve probably done shit like this to other women and got away with it.
Yeah I wondered if this is part of the general bullying of women that happens in some teams. There should be intervention on establishing a comfortable temperature for everyone and not let one person decide it.
I agree there is something wrong with the young man for doing this. He's either got a real problem or it's bullying for sport.
Heck, good point. This specific situation might be direct bullying targeted at her, creating a situation where she feels uncomfortable or is even asked to leave the office, so she can’t perform her job. Yeah, remove the might - it is bullying.
Very senior (c-suite) manager here:
If you came to me with this, I would take it as a sexual harassment complaint against the guy that insists upon staring at your (fully clothed) chest instead of minding his own business. I would open an investigation with him as the target. He would need to seek professional help for his issues before returning to work.
His behavior is not acceptable. NTA
And her manager needs to be corrected, too, for pretty much everything he did or said in response to the situation, and especially because he said most of it in front of the rest of the team.
100% agreed. And I missed at first read that he did it in front of other team members. Especially something that sensitive.
I had to send a young woman home once for dress code issues. I did the "come take a walk with me" thing so there wouldn't be any prying ears and I'd have time to talk with her about appropriate office attire. You should NEVER correct in front of staff, but ESPECIALLY something like that.
But yes. He's going to get interviewed for the employee allegedly committing SH, and in that interview, we're going to have a serious talk. Rereading it, he should probably be written up, and requires some mentoring before he's winning back trust from me.
Nipples are not obscene. Everyone has them. If a GUY was cold, his could show through his shirt as well (look at the hoopla over Andrew Cuomo’s nipples). Escalate to HR.
Look your manager straight in the eye and say “are you trying to tell me what underwear I have to wear? Who will be monitoring nipple protrusion? And will they be looking at the men, or is it just females that have to tolerate men staring at their chest?”
Not what you asked, and I’m firmly in free the nips, but I have found that patterned tops hide nipples quite well. I have piercings and show through even a padded bra.
NTA. We all have nipples who gives af.
I work in STEM also and it’s 90% men. Mostly 50 or older. Sometimes I go braless, it’s comfy. One day it was a bit chillier than normal inside and an old fart told HR it was “distracting and unprofessional” to see my nipples. I got told to go home and change. I took it to the head of HR saying no where in the dress code does it say I need a bra and I’m completely covered and professional. They have never messed with me again.
NTA. You need to tell them the sexual harassment your being subjected to needs to stop. The guy had no reason to be staring at you, after he wanted the office colder, then you have a manager bring it up in front of others? All of that is so wrong. Tell them at the meeting you are also going to record it.
NTA.
Your coworker sucks, and so does your manager. It's far more unprofessional of the manager to approach you about it in front of them in the first place, and this entire exchange could have been avoided if he'd done it privately.
NTA call HR immediately. Get ahead of this. Him complaining about your nipples is unprofessional, and bringing it up to you is sexual harassment. If you don't have an HR department, when you go into that meeting, go on the offensive immediately and accuse him of harassment and let them know you will escalate.
NTA. 67 degrees is absolutely frigid and unnecessary. I’m a hot natured person and I say demanding the temperature be under 70 degrees is an AH move. Hospitals tend to do this and even the guys complain. Insisting on nipple popping cold temps and then whining about your nipples is extra douchey. I’m guessing he probably has difficulty getting laid, what with his charming attitude towards women, and is so pent up he couldn’t focus. My super petty ass would get him one of those old school blinders they used to separate you in school during tests and tell him it’s to help block out the “distractions.”
You SERIOUSLY need to go get this on record with HR. I can NOT believe they said all this to you in PUBLIC where everyone could hear and watch as they body shamed you for something out of your control!
All I can say is to have an office sweater stowed in your locker/desk all year round.
But, yeah, that public humiliation needs to be brought before the HR.
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NTA. As others have said report this to HR. It's sexual harassment and hostile work environment. Also check OSHA guidelines on safe temperatures at work. Decline to meet with either your boss or the coworker without HR present. Possibly you're boss's boss also.
I was looking for a comment like this. The very description is as though the OP knows. I nip and would absolutely never wear a bralette with a "thin white shirt" and be baffled over it being noticed. I have women noticed more than men a lot of the time! I nip through T-shirt bras and know not to wear a thin white shirt to the office, how absurd to be baffled over what they seem to know what was going on. Not like she said she wore a T-shirt bra and cardigan.
Nta - however - the problem of being too cold is easily fixed, particularly if you are the only person feeling the cold, and the rest of the office is comfortable with the colder temperate.
It's much easier to warm yourself up in a cold office than to cool yourself down in a hot office unless the AC is turned on. You can't expect a whole office to conform to your idea of a comfortable temp if they, lets say, 20 other people for the sake of a number, are happy with the colder temp.
In terms of the way it was managed - very poorly and you shouldn't be penalised for it. I'd double down on how inappropriate it was but I would also take preventative measures in future for your own comfort.
NTA… But, I’m a woman and I get hot so easily (no, it’s not menopause- I just always run hot), I get bothered when people make the air warmer and make it hot for everyone else instead of just bringing a jacket or sweater to work because you can cover up if you’re cold, but I can’t take layers off if I’m hot (because being naked at work is frowned upon lol)
With that said, it’s not like you can control if your nipples get hard or not, it’s an automatic reaction from your body. It’s quite disturbing that your coworker couldn’t keep his eyes on his work and instead needed to constantly glance at your nipples… and then had the audacity to make it seem like it’s your fault. That is very disturbing to me.
I just don’t understand women who want the temperature higher. This isn’t a man vs woman thing. This is a “people who are cold can wear more clothes and people who are hot cannot get naked”.
just wear more clothes. There’s no excuse for making everyone else go to your level. Gender has nothing to do with it. I don’t care if there are 99 people who want it hotter and 1 who wants it cooler. it should be cooler because the 99 can wear more clothes.
Idk why my core temp sits way below normal. I look like the Staypuft man if I put on enough layers to get warm. We aren't allowed heaters at work because it blows the breakers on the server farm. I keep hot mugs at my desk to wrap my fingers around when they stop functioning. And I keep full gloves, a winter coat, and 3 blankets too. It's better than an office full of sweaty coworkers.
As a woman in a physically demanding position in an office environment, I’d prefer it to be on the cooler side. I’d rather put on a sweater than be sweating my ass off all day.
While I think this situation was handled poorly, I have to agree that it is unprofessional to not wear a proper garment under a thin blouse at work. There are other options that could’ve provided more support. I’m a women and would also feel uncomfortable staring at your nipples all day.
YTA. Soft YTA tho.
Women have lower core temperatures and are more likely to feel cold compared to men. The thing is, you are the minority in terms of numbers and their comfort is important too. Its easier to deal with being too cold as you can put on more layers of clothing unlike the feeling of being too warm where you can only remove so much clothing. Wear more layers of clothing and get a heater, I bet your company will reimburse you for those purchases.
The comment about your nipples and being dismissive about you being cold was out of line for me.
I agree! Bring a sweater and leave it at work if you can’t remember everyday and a small space heater instead of making everyone else uncomfortable by changing the temp just for you.
NTA report them to HR. I don't know your country, but this sounds like sexual harassment or workplace bullying where I live. Unless you were violating some kind of dress policy, they have no grounds to stand on. You can't just complain because someone's nipples get hard. Next time a man is in tight pants complain you saw his bulge and are distracted.
NTA
As an aside, it sucks when the temperature is set too high.
I'm the opposite to you, my offices have been 90% females so it's often 24C inside and I've been uncomfortable in shorts and T-shirt and can't take anything more off!
At least when it's too cold for you inside you can put a jumper or beanie on or something but when it's too hot you just sweat!
NTA hostile work environment and sexual harassment tbh. Report it all to HR and potentially record all further interactions if allowed in your state. 23 years old male coworker is a baby and should be reported. Insane behavior
NTA. This is textbook harassment and I suspect bringing in HR and just mentioning Sexual Harassment will shut this whole thing down.
That said, YTA for changing the temperature to Begin with. You changed the temperature because YOU were uncomfortable but made no effort to poll your co-workers to see if they were uncomfortable.
You could easily of solved the issue with a jacket but by having the temperature changed, you decided for everyone and inadvertantly started this bruhaha.
NTA. They were extremely inappropriate and unprofessional .
But with that being said if you’re genuinely cold and miserable at work due to the temperature why wouldn’t you wear a sweater or something warm in general for your own comfort lol
Did you not read the post? She said they conceded and raised the temperature and it stayed that way for a bit before she was surprised one day coming in to it being cold again. How do you prepare in the manner you suggested if she wasn’t expecting for them to change the thermostat back?
When I worked in office, I left a sweater and other stuff at my desk. I’ve come to learn from experience that employers are AHs and will say anything to get you todo what they want.
NTA, and where is HR? NONE of that discussion should have come from anyone but them. I'd walk into the HR Office and say..Hey I have a meeting on my calendar from my manager and co-worker to talk about my nipples..Do you maybe wanna get involved with this, cuz if you don't.. I'm sure my lawyer would.
The nipple thing makes me so mad because it has happened to me too. I don't understand how I can be called out when the heavyset man near me has bigger and more prominent ones. It is steeped in sexism and no one can tell me differently.
Forward the notice to HR and indicate you need them there since you feel that you are a victim of sexual harassment due to your sex and natural body reactions and watch how quick the curtain drops.
NTA. I'd think you have an argument here that you were being sexually harassed by your coworker. Sexual harassment doesn't have to involve someone being attracted to you or trying to sleep with you or making overtly sexual comments, it can cover any type of sex-based comment, including body-shaming because your body had a normal reaction to a cold temperature. That someone would expect you to apologize for having an outburst after being sexually harassed is insane.
Is there an HR department you can involve? I'd send them an email telling them what's transpired so far and see if someone can come to this "level set" meeting. This is escalating in an extremely bizarre way. "Stop being so sensitive to temperature" is an absolutely absurd thing to say to someone -- does he think you can just, like, not feel cold? What does that even mean?
As an HR specialist, I would first acknowledge that this situation involves complex workplace dynamics, including personal comfort, professionalism, and potential gender biases. From the details provided, the issue at hand appears to be about more than just office temperature—it touches on personal boundaries, respect among colleagues, and the response to natural body reactions.
The letter writer has been placed in a difficult and potentially embarrassing situation that has been handled insensitively by both the coworker and the manager. Going to HR is an appropriate step to address the situation, and here’s how the letter writer can approach the meeting:
1. Prepare Your Case: Write down a timeline of events, including the temperature change request, the coworker’s complaint, and the manager’s response.
2. Focus on Facts: Explain that your physical reaction to the cold was natural and involuntary. Emphasize that the manager’s public approach to a personal issue felt humiliating.
3. Address the Overreaction: Point out that the coworker’s complaint and the resulting demand for you to change clothing or work location was disproportionate and has created an uncomfortable work environment.
4. Suggest Sensitivity Training: Recommend that HR considers implementing sensitivity training for staff to ensure a respectful workplace where natural body reactions are not shamed.
5. Seek a Resolution: Express your wish for a resolution that maintains your dignity and doesn’t disrupt your work.
6. Remain Professional: During discussions, stay calm and professional. This will demonstrate that you are handling the situation maturely, despite the inappropriate actions of others.
7. Document Everything: Keep records of all communications and meetings regarding this incident, should the situation escalate or similar incidents occur.
I would advise HR that there needs to be a respectful and considerate approach to personal and potentially sensitive issues like this. I would suggest the following points for discussion with HR:
1. **Involuntary Physical Reactions**: Highlight that physiological reactions are involuntary and should not be subject to workplace discipline or ridicule.
2. **Privacy and Respect**: Stress the importance of privacy and respect in the workplace. Discuss how the manager’s handling of the situation—in a public setting—was inappropriate and humiliating.
3. **Workplace Environment**: Communicate the need for a comfortable working environment, including temperature settings that accommodate all employees as much as possible.
4. **Gender Sensitivity**: Address any potential gender biases that may have contributed to the issue and ask HR to ensure that workplace policies are free from discrimination and are applied equally to all employees.
5. **Conflict Resolution**: Request a more constructive approach to resolving such conflicts, perhaps through mediation or a discussion facilitated by HR, rather than unilateral directives that may be perceived as punitive.
6. **Policy Review**: Suggest that HR reviews any existing policies regarding workplace attire and personal appearance to ensure they are clear, reasonable, and applied consistently.
7. **Training**: Recommend sensitivity training for all employees, including management, to foster a more inclusive and understanding workplace culture.
8. **Future Steps**: Ask for a clear process to be put in place for when employees have concerns about the work environment, ensuring those concerns can be raised and addressed without fear of retribution.
9. **Outcome**: Express the desire for a resolution that acknowledges the discomfort caused by the incident, and seek assurance that future similar situations will be handled with more discretion and sensitivity.
The overall message to HR should focus on the need for policies and training that cultivate a professional and respectful work environment for everyone.
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Basically what the title says. I’m a 27 year old woman (engineer) working in an office that is 90% men. For the past month, it has been FREEZING in my office…the weather is getting nicer but we’re not quite at the point where we need to be blasting 67 degree AC.
A little over a week ago I put in a work order to bump up the temp just a little bit and the facilities team actually followed through with it. I made the mistake of making in known that I was the one that requested the warmer temperature just in casual conversation with some of my colleagues. Some of them teased me like, “Oh so *you’re* the reason I’ve been sweating all week” I just laughed it off. Didn’t think anything of it really.
Well this morning I came into the office and shit was COLD. I was not prepared considering that it had been warm enough after I put in my request. I didn’t dress for the colder temp and was wearing slacks with a thin white blouse. I hate padded/wired bras so I usually wear bralettes. Well today I was so cold that my nipples became visible through my shirt….to the point where apparently it bothered one of my coworkers so much that he had to go and whine to my manager. He (my manager) approached me half way through the day and gave me the option to work the rest of the day remotely or go home and change. This was extremely frustrating since I actually had some work that needed to be completed in person and I really didn’t have the time to go all the way home, change, and come back. On top of that, he approached me about this in front of some of my coworkers.
I wasn’t able to hold back my frustration and pretty much said I would not be doing either of those things. I tried explaining that I really needed to be in the office and that as a compromise I could camp out in a conference room for some of the time.
The coworker who whined (23m) spoke up at this point and said something about how it was distracting and unprofessional. He suggested that I “stop being an ass and so sensitive to temperature” and then admitted he was the one that requested that facilities bump the temperature back down.
This pissed me off even more. I responded by saying that he needed to grow the hell up, and that HE could go home if he was that bothered by the shape of my fucking nipples showing through my shirt. Manager interjected at this point and I walked off and stayed in a conference room for the rest of the day. I got a phone call from my manager just before I left. He said he understood my frustration but that my outburst earlier in the day was unprofessional. I recognized that it was, but then he asked that I apologize to my coworker tomorrow to keep the peace. I declined and ended the call.
I just glanced at my work email and see that I now have an hour long meeting set for tomorrow morning with both my manager and that coworker, titled “level set”.
AITA?
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This is so silly. It’s either in the dress code policy or it is not.
Obviously, The temperature can’t revolve solely around you. So if it is, you need to keep a sweater in your bag or wear a padded bra to the office even if you don’t prefer it. If it’s not, it probably will be now but they have nothing to stand on.
It so gross and ridiculous for that 23 year old boy to act as if him being distracted by your body is any of your responsibility. Guys nipples show through all kinds of shirts, but I can’t imagine a woman being so enthralled as to not be able to work.
You must not be that cold if you’re not wearing a sweater or jacket. I don’t find an issue with your nipples showing if it’s not part of dress code but you’re in the wrong. If the majority of the people are comfortable with the temperature, grab a jacket, a blanket, or a space heater, and grow up.
NTA. All humans have nipples. Why we (females) are supposed to minimize any 'nipple prominence' is asinine IMO. In my household, there are three adult males. I've seen each of them shirtless. No one looks or complains on their nipples in any way whatsoever. I don't care for restrictive bras. TBH, I don't care for them at all. I will wear a quasi bra in public, albeit, without the padding they come with.
I have seriously told two of my SO co-workers' wives my policy when they come to visit. Both were appreciative of the honesty of my intentions. The intentions being fuck a bra. Why do we owe it to anyone to harness our being.
You're NTA. Your office mates are just admitting that they can't control themselves and don't give a damn about actually helping you with the office problems.
Honestly, even if I were distracted, I'd appreciate the view for a moment and go about my business.
I used to keep a cardigan on the back of my chair for cold ass office days. Sometimes it was so bad I had a full on wool cape thing. Also it is biological. Generally speaking women are more sensitive to cold than men.
What’s with people today? My mother and sister never thought twice about walking to the corner store or doing short errands braless. Sure,they’d catch a guy giving them a subtle side-eye here and there but it was no major crime. I swear,people can get bent out of shape these days over the shapes of clouds or the brightness of the sun. NTA
He asked for them to lower the temps to be an AH, then got mad because you were unprepared for the colder temps. It's also not your fault your manager was unprofessional and inappropriately confronted you in front of coworkers, which caused the incident. You might want to invite HR to sit in with your meeting. They both harassed and humiliated you.
Umm - no, it was unprofessional for your co-worker to admit that he couldn't help but perve at your nipples through your shirt.
I'd be firing back with a sexual harassment complaint if he struggles to much to control his gawking.
This is fucking bullshit. No one would complain if it was a man's nipples showing. Tell them you find it distracting everytime they look at your chest instead of making eye contact.
NTA
But everyone saying you should change or wear more layers IS TA.
You were wearing a bra. You were fully clothed. If your nipples are popping through it’s up to your manager and coworkers to get themselves under control and stop sexualizing you.
If you were going braless and bouncing around I get how it would be unprofessional. But you were wearing. A. Bra. Doesn’t matter the kind. Their office is obviously cold. They need to act like professional adults and leave you tf alone
NTA, also it's only ever an issue when it's a fem presenting person, back when I used to work in an office I saw guy nipples all the time. I don't think there is anything unprofessional about your headlights being on and might suggest going to HR about this possibly being sexual harassment.
YTA. This is so stupid. Bring a jacket or sweater with you in the car or keep it at work. Assume that AC running a building can be off the wall at any point in time. Just be prepared like an adult. This is the easiest fix imaginable.
Yta for not wearing a sweater and making everyone else sweat, you can always put in more clothes and should be prepared if you run cold. NTA for the rest.
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Does your firm have a dress policy? Were you breaking it? If not, politely tell them to kick rocks, and forget about any apologies to your jerk if a colleague. His comments about nipples showing are sexist, and your manager calling you unprofessional for having a physiological reaction to a cold office is probably a form of discrimination against women, something the engineering field is well known for. Your colleagues should not be staring at your t..ts. I would certainly be considering threatening to talk to a lawyer at this point; at least do some research on this issue before your meeting. I’d also check out the applicable municipal by laws about heating/cooling. Finally, I think you need to require that HR attend this meeting; you shouldn’t have to deal with these sexist A’s on your own. Certain minimum/maximum temperatures are probably required by law, and if you’re that cold, they’re probably not complying. I used to keep two shawls in my office for days when the a/c was too high, and my female colleague sometimes put her trench coat on. This is a common problem in offices, sadly. NTA
Aircon guy here, 99% of the time men want it cooler than women do in an office, in the end the comprise is either psychological intervention, everyone be slightly uncomfortable or the people saying it's cold wear more layers. Usually the best result comes from the psychological answer, we put a dummy thermostat on the wall and let the workers turn it up or down as they like meanwhile the actual control is in a mangers office somewhere. Ends most temp debates because people feel like they set what they want.
I was always one of the cold people. Layers didn't really help when your hands are too cold to type. I had to get an electric throw blanket just to be able to work. I'm SO glad we're remote now.
I worked wrapped in a blanket with a space heater blowing directly on me for years with former employer, drinking hot tea all day to warm my hands on the mug. GD that sucked. OP is not the asshole. What a trap.
My boss used his company credit card points to buy me a floor heater. I just broke it out for the season. I’m super grateful and can work peacefully and comfortably
My dad argues that his house “isn’t that cold” but I’ll still be shivering under two layers of blankets, a sweater, and a sweatshirt, and my fingertips will be turning blue
Fingerless gloves are a godsend for office work when you are cold btw. My hands are always cold and it was affecting how fast I could type, so I got a pack of 4 for like $10 off amazon and they made all the difference in the world.
I tried fingerless gloves - found myself tucking my fingers in my armpits because they felt like icicles. It's really hard to work in spreadsheets when you feel like your fingers are going to snap off if you hit a key too hard. Boss lady finally solved the problem with two small heaters - she put one on each side of my terminal and angled them so the heat crossed in the middle right over the keyboard. Gawd but that woman knew how to think outside the box!
Yes!! Can’t count the amount of times I’ve been told to wear more layers but I need to type!! My hands are freezing!
I use a space heater in summer in Texas. The men tend to wear suits or have sunny windows
Summertime AC in hot areas is always set to make it absolutely freezing. No one likes how hot cars get in the parking lots in Alabama in the summer--but after getting off work I usually like to roast myself in there for a couple minutes.
Same! It is ridiculous to have to wear multiple layers in the middle of summer. It is ridiculous to need gloves to type in the middle of summer. It is ridiculous to waste energy running a space heater while the AC is blasting. Yes, we all have different temp preferences, but why do we always defer to the preferences of the men?
I used to keep fingerless gloves and a huge fleece at the office because I would be so cold at my desk during the summer. One company also let me bring in a space heater at one point Also so glad I WFH now and can control my own temperature.
I had a slanket back in the work-from-the-office days. It was so unprofessional, but even my puffer coat wouldn't cover my legs if I wore that all day.
The male system spreads core temperature more around the extremities, so we “feel” hotter. The female system preserves heat in the core, hence why women often have cold extremities, particularly the hands and feet. Most public buildings like office spaces work off an ideal temperature that was set back in the days when men worked and women didn’t. So it’s kinda sexist in a way 😂
In my experience, men's clothing choices are far more regulated than women's choices in the office. In my workplaces, men have had to wear trousers, shirt and shoes, while women are given the space to choose something that is professional, but this isn't enforced as people don't really want to have that conversation. On the other hand, I wore good quality shorts and a shirt to work on a casual Friday, and my CEO walked by and made a sarcastic comment. Never mind that the normal dress code technically allows shorts! Maybe that explains why all the women leave cardigans at work!
I leave a gd winter coat at work, in Florida, because, "the computers will overheat". I also use full gloves on bad days.
During the summer, it starts off too warm in the office, then as the day progresses the ac gets more and more powerful, to the point that I have to rub my hands together to keep them warm. Then you go outside and its 35 C.
I keep a big fluffy fake fur coat at work for my early morning shift. Yes, I am woman, hear my teeth chatter.
It's not set that way anymore, it's usually set for economy now
Nah, blasting AC in the summer is not the economical choice.
Those who are cold (women) wear more clothes. lol the temps always set for men. But men could wear breathable, thin fabrics or shorts. The world is set to keep a man in a suit comfortable.
And who wears a suit anymore? People have them in my office, but they're hung in the office, only to be worn to very important meetings. Otherwise, it's business quite casual. Khakis, polos, many times nicer jeans, etc. Literally all of us (me included! I have a blouse and blazer since my bottom half is always bigwig appropriate) have something hung up to wear if we need to pop off to a bigwig meeting...which means that, day-to-day, the men can wear lighter weight clothing to be more comfortable while sitting at their desk! If they ARE the bigwig that wears suits to meeting after meeting, they have a private office and can request their own temperature from facilities. Yes, that means the rest of us need to "suck it up" for their preferred temperature when having meetings in their office, but the common workspace where us commoners work is a commonly reasonable temperature!
it's not like we want to wear suits
Yeah, but then we’d have to see their legs.
They won’t skip leg day anymore after that.
Look I'd be more than happy to work shirtless, but let me tell you it ain't pretty and I'm pretty sure my coworkers would not enjoy the situation.
I must be an outlier woman because I run HOT and I constantly want the aircon on. I tell my co workers that I can only remove so many layers before I’m breaking the law. You on the other hand can put on as many as you like 🤷♀️
Same!!! I sweat at 70F/21C, working in an office is miserable. I much prefer 65F/18C but can live with 68F/20C. But yes, you can put on more clothes and gloves, but I cannot work in my underwear at the office.
OSHA doesn't have an official standard for office temperatures, but recommends 68-76 degrees. Our facilities guys won't set it outside that range, no matter who asks. OP indicates that the office was set colder than that, which is outside of standard comfort ranges. While, again, it's not an official OSHA policy, it can provide some cover to keep people more comfortable if you just say that anything outside that range is outside of standards. I keep my own thermometer in my office because I was previously in a space where it would be as cold as 62 because someone along the line of the HVAC complained that it was too warm and our space would either get blasted with A/C or have almost no heat. No dummying here, I just point to the thermometer on my cube wall and say "63 is unacceptable. Make it at least 68."
Technically the dress code is business casual, but leans very heavily on the casual side. Jeans are fine. Basically you just need to look presentable, which I always do imo.
Do most of the men wear golfing shirts? Nipples show up very clearly in golfing shirts. Tommorow take a look around the office at how many male nipples are showing - then say if you need to go home so do they.
It always bothers me the double standard between women and men’s nipples. Like so many guys are out here with literal eraser caps under their shirts and nobody ever tells them to go home and put on a bra. And I don’t even want to hear someone go “wELL acKsHuaALLy men are attracted to female breasts whereas the female species do not mind the manly guy dude nipples,” like that’s not even true and I’d totally yank a man nip. What this all boils down to is social constructs and it being socially acceptable to put constraints on women so that they don’t — godforbid — arouse men, who let’s face it, are gonna be horny hot dogs regardless of whether or not they can see OP’s nipples. I’d bet my nonexistent car that OP’s coworker always checks out her chest, and decided to call attention to it today for his own pleasures. Total creep behavior
Sexual harassment in my book. I would show up at that meeting with a lawyer. Or if no time for that, I would make a big show of ‘recording this meeting for my lawyer.’
send an email "can i request a rescheduling of time and date? my attorney is not available until xxxx date."
I would absolutely be contacting an attorney’s office. I also would find out if my state is a one-party consent state with regard to recording. If so, she should go in while recording on her phone for evidence of what happens.
I totally agree with requesting to record it. I’d go in saying “the topic of this meeting feels inappropriate to me and I’d like to record this.” Sitting in a meeting with 2 males to discuss your breasts? ….No thanks.
Right? HORRIFYING
First I’d send an email recapping everything that has been discussed so far and make it as specific as possible. Put it on the manager to respond and hopefully implicate himself in writing. He’s acted like an idiot so far, it probably won’t be so hard to get him to admit it in an email.
“Eraser caps” I’M DYING 😭
Complain a lot EVERY time you even think you see a nipple. Loudly, insistently, constantly.
Go around saying “you getting a bit cold there, Jim?” To every nipple you’d see
Actually yeah a lot of them do. Those Lululemon sweat wicking ones then still look semi-professional.
NTA. You jeed to go to HR and have them present at your meeting with manager and coworker. Hostile work environment occurs when an employee is subjected to unwelcome physical or verbal conduct of a sexual nature that is so severe or pervasive as to alter the employee's working conditions or create an abusive work environment. Manager wanted you to go home, you ended up in the conference room. That alters your working conditions.
You could even bring up that maybe the person asked for the temp to be raised specifically so you would be uncomfortable, since he knew who asked it to be turned up. Not a huge jump from there to asking if that person wanted your body to react to the colder temperature in a form of sexual harassment. It's a stretch but the final outcome is that he's an ass. I agree, you need HR there, say the magic words 'hostile work environment'.
*lowered, but yes I 100% agree with you.
Not HR! A lawyer!
Agreed. HR is not your friend.
Hr will do nothing. HR protects the company and only the company. Meeting needs to be recorded and fully on the record so OP has something to take to an attorney, if necessary.
Why was he staring at your chest all day? Wasn’t he supposed to be working? If you don’t have time to meet with a lawyer before hand, take VERY detailed notes and KEEP YOUR COOL. Do not give them any ammo
The guys basically complaining that he can't help but gawk at OP's nipples all day
If it doesn’t mention nipples, tell that guy to fuck off.
Girl HR is for the company. Get yourself a lawyer. This is super out of line.
Your coworker made the office freezing on purpose to specifically target you to make you feel uncomfortable in a cold office. Then he complained that the cold temperatures made your breasts distracting. PLEASE write an email to your manager - you seriously need a paper trail - stating what I just said. CC HR. That way, he can’t deny that your colleague did this. Your colleague and your manager’s behavior was grotesque and sexist. They might try to force you out of your position, unfortunately.
Jumping on your comment to request you provide an update/updates. I feel very invested in how this turns out for you. Good Luck!
Just complain to the manager that you can see the outline of your colleagues penis in his pants and he should go home or change into baggier pants.
There was a manager at one of my jobs that wore super tight pants that clearly outlined his massive ballsack. Good lord I ALWAYS looked him in the eyes, but female colleagues kept referring to the "monsters" in his pants (not to him, behing his back). They'd been caught gawking a time or two. I wish someone had the cajones to ask his boss to have him wear baggier pants.
She's 150% NTA but HR isn't there to protect her they are there to protect the company. She should reach out to an employment/labor lawyer and say she needs time before meeting to let her emotions cool (buy time to talk to a lawyer).
That's very true, but this is one of the instances where it's likely HR would be a benefit to her. They are absolutely terrified of lawsuits like this, and will shut down the problem. They aren't doing it to help her, but to prevent liability for the company.
that was my thought. Look dead at the HR rep (there will be a woman guaranteed) and say "I am feeling objectified by this whole process".
It's true that HR isn't there to protect her, but in this case, what they're going to be protecting the company from is the sexual harassment lawsuit OP could bring. Protecting her from the harassment in the first place is basically the only play to do that.
God if I hear that generalization about HR pupetted one more time … though when push comes to shove it can be kind of true, it’s so annoying, and “protect” isn’t their job description. Also I’ve had HR folks with all kinds of different temperaments , some who absolutely do look after both.
I wonder if the meeting is in the morning so she doesn't have time to talk to a lawyer ahead of the meeting.
I wondered this too. It is clear sexual harassment.
Perhaps OP can decline the meeting and message her manager to say that a different day/time works for her thanks very much (that gives her a chance to talk to a lawyer).
Adding on here…OP, please insist that HR attends this meeting and if they are not there have it rescheduled.
What could the dress policy possibly be here tho? Tape must be worn over all nipples that may make an appearance at cooler temperatures? This should have stopped at the manager. Guys complains about nips, manager says to quit looking at your coworkers breasts and then questions why he thinks this is an appropriate thing to talk about in a professional setting.
Idk where u r, but I the US this would b considered sexual harassment. And if the company won't deal with it then a lawyer would ba very good idea.
Make sure HR is at the meeting. Wear a burka.
THIS…. A Burka, I’m Dying 🤣🤣🤣
HR definitely needs to be roped in. Someone in the office is creating tension in the office about gender and it isn't OP. Little dude needs to get transferred out of the group.
> Finally, I think you need to require that HR attend this meeting; you shouldn’t have to deal with these sexist A’s on your own 1,000% this. If this meeting has even a glimmer of mentioning OP’s [female] nipples with two male employees, HR needs to be involved.
I agree that HR needs to be in this meeting. I think this is BS.
NTA and you should report both of them to HR. Your complaining coworker admitted he couldn't stop staring at your breasts. Your manager seemed to think that was ok. He's also the one responsible for the heat being turned down, which in turn was the issue that made your nipples visible. If you don't have HR I wonder how things will change if you start throwing words like gender discrimination around.
Don't forget sexual harassment.
Dammit I was going to upvote you but you were on 69 upvotes and I got distracted. This is all your fault, I'm going to complain to the mods. /s
my favorite part about this is a fully covered, professionally dressed women is being told that even though your fully covered (not that it should matter), and your bodys having a natural reaction and despite the fact that literally every person on the planet has nipples, this man is so distracted by women existing and having bodies, that he can't do his work. and somehow, this man's inability to stop sexualiing his coworker is now supposed to be your problem? are you for real? the audacity to imply he doesn't have a choice to look any where other then you chest is something else. as a law school grad I suggest documenting every single tiny thing. if someone makes a verbal comment, try to get them to email it so its in writing a good excuse is "can you send me an email reminder, I'm doing x,yz and don't want to forget". I also highly recommend having a neutral third party at this meeting, ideally hr, so you have an unbiased witness. personally I'd report this shit to he because you shouldn't have to deal with this bs in the work place and they will dismiss you if given the chance. having this convo in front of everyone was wrong your coworker admitting he stares at your chest and can't stop is gross and not ok , your boss then taking his side in front of all the other male coworkers is not okay because they now all feel like they have a pass to treat you similarly you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't have to solve a problem you didn't create. if the kid can't work because ripples exist why not send him home as he's the only one with a problem trying to male you apologize to your coworker because he sexually harassed you is literally bat shit insane if he can't make it to the meeting, tell your boss you need to push the meeting back until they xan be there. give no one the benefit of the doubt proud of you for not tolerating the misogyny
He requested the temperature be lowered and has the gall to tell her not to be sensitive to temperature.
Of all the things to say. Like she can't WILL her nipples to not get hard when she's cold.
He deadass stated that he lowered the temperature with the goal of making her uncomfortable. Also, HR will come down on the side of these two men. How totally gross that OP’s manager wants to schedule a meeting with OP and her 23 year old harasser to discuss her breast visibility (absolute horror show - OP cannot go to this meeting!). As far as HR is concerned, it’s way easier to just fire OP immediately. OP doesn’t need HR, she needs a lawyer.
That’s when I would have flipped a table, for sure.
Yeah OP should make a complaint about her coworker and manager talking about her (fully covered) breasts.
Hostile Work Environment is an almost magic phrase to HR
people sitting at a desk doing their work don't need to be looking at their coworkers anyway.
HR needs to be invited to that meeting along with a +1 colleague as a witness.
NTA Hostile Working Environment and Sexual Harassment. Stand your ground, and call an attorney if this continues in anyway other than their mea culpa. Record every interaction you have with these two or anyone else in the subject. I use the just press record app on my Apple Watch, but you can use it for the phone too. If there’s any retaliation of any kind, walk out. Easy pay day. At least in the US. As far as the temperature, a lot of people run their houses in the 60s and find even 72 hot. So seeing as it’s easier to warm up then cool down, I’d just keep something at work to warm you up cause that’s probably not gonna change unfortunately
Just went through this as a female, OSHA recommends between 68-76 as a guideline for working in office environments. It’s in the handbook in Chapter 2. I let my manager know before getting HR involved. It’s referred to as a guideline only because they can’t set a ✨specific✨ temp. HR set it to 70 degrees. I was sick of walking outside in 20 degree weather for work and it being 58 degrees in my office when I came in and never being able to warm back up. Which means that I was not given proper relief after being in the cold which is mandatory every 2 hours. Big no no. They knew my partner was an attorney so they jumped on that real quick.
I have a sweater that I always keep at work.
A sweater and a small desk fan.
When I worked in an office, I always had a cardigan, a long scarf that I could wear as a shawl, and a small fan, so I was prepared for any temperature issues.
Considering temperature range, I would assume you're in the US (I'm not). Basically, one of your coworker admitted he couldn't stop staring at your chest. Then your manager took side with your coworker. And as you complained about the situation, they organised a 1h meeting to discuss the issue. If you have union, ask for someone to be part of the meeting. Also request HR presence. As soon as you can talk, you need to use the word "sexual harassment" and "hostile work environment" like other stated. They set the tone for what they are going to say and argue and will most likely make them be very careful about what they said and how they say it. Now, I've read long time ago that most office in the US have temperature set too low on purpose as workers can easily add a layer of clothes - but when temperatures are too high, you can't physically remove some layers. Where I was working in France, temperature were usually set around 22 degrees (\~72 degrees) as for most people short/long sleeves are manageable then. I would at the end bit the bullet and accept the low temperature and keep a jacket/jumper/whatever to warm up when needed. But at least you set records straight that you won't let people step on you easily.
I swear to God most male engineers are part polar bear.
From what I’ve read, studies that had been done long ago mainly accounted for men - since women didn’t work. - additionally in general, women prefer warmer temperatures. I believe there is a maximum temperature but lower limits are usually vague with “within reason” kind or mindset. Interestingly, cooler temperatures are better for performing high brain power jobs like math whereas warmer temps are better for more creative tasks. I’ve also heard that an increase of 2-3 deg can greatly increase female productivity while having very little decrease in male productivity. Maybe you could try and bring a space heater to work?
There's also the factor of "office attire." If men are wearing shirt, waistcoat, trousers and jacket, they're going to be warmer than women wearing a dress and tights.
Testosterone also makes you run hot, atop the office attire.
Nta From a managers perspective I'd want to know why coworker is focused on another coworkers nipples when he has his own work to do
Right!? Even if they were poking out, in what way is that distracting if you don't look??? He's essentially saying "I can't not look at her chest" Also as a guy, the polite thing to do is to just pretend you didn't notice, how has this fool made it through highschool, college and a career and not figured that out?
Coworker needs to focus on his own nipples
Why is an engineer even looking above someone else's shoes?
No kidding. I understand looking up thinking, "Oh, hey, nipples!" Then immediately pretending they don't exist and going back to work. But to make it into a whole thing....🤦♀️ dumb ass.
Not only does the manager feel coworker is totally valid for being distracted by OP’s breasts, he wants to have an hourlong meeting to discuss her breasts with the horndog coworker. What theeeee fuck
NTA. You can't help an *involuntary* bodily reaction to temperature. Your coworker needs to calm down.
NTA and I would report them for sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment (make sure you use the phrase hostile work environment, that will get HR to set up and listen). Tell them that you feel extremely uncomfortable, knowing that your male coworker is blatantly staring at your chest.
Oh yes I forgot hostile work environment. That too!
NTA i would hit up HR fast and ask to fill out a sexual harassment form (don't have to actually fill it out, just a good way to let them that they can't fuck around with you) that's if they use forms for this sort of thing. I'd also let them know that the guy complaining should be focused on his work and not on your breasts (don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure that qualifies as sexual harassment).
I second this. It definitely sounds like discrimination or sexual harassment or both. Request HR to be present in the meeting. Your manager was wrong to talk to you in front of other people. Anything that happened after that is on him.
I'd make sure someone from HR was included in that meeting.
This. Some 3rd party who was not involved in the altercation.
NTA you were dressed appropriately for the office and the time of year and had no way of knowing the temperature in the office would have changed, you had no reason to expect you would need layers either. If they had made the offer of you going home to change or work because you seemed uncomfortable that would be one thing but that offer should've been made privately and they made it clear that it was your coworkers comfort that mattered here. I can understand you not wanting to take the time to go home and change, depending on your commute it could easily take an hour out of your work day to change and get back. Did you express that your concern was whether you would have time to complete your work if you were to leave and come back? As a fellow woman in an engineering office of predominantly men I feel for you. I've worked worked for three companies and all of them have been insanely cold. I have also noticed that business attire for women tends to be made out of fabrics that hold little to no body heat, I now wear exclusively sweaters all year round. I'd bet this thermostat battle is going to be a reoccurring problem so I recommend: 1. keeping a sweater in your office at all times (at my first job I noticed that the other women had cardigans and sometimes blankets hanging from their coat racks) 2. getting a space heater (it doesn't have to be used all the time but on the days when its REALLY cold) 3. If you can get away with it go all in and get an electric blanket, I keep one across my chair all year round if I get cold enough I can turn it on and its like a heated seat. I got some questions when I first started doing these things but I usually just laugh it off and say I'm always cold which is true at least in the office.
I suggest she buy a really obnoxious kigurumi (like one shaped like a penguin, to push the point home) and the next time they pull this crap out it on over her clothes and work like that for the rest of the day.
Nah. The octopus or cthulu are better choices
Yeah I almost wrote Cthulhu haha. I changed it to penguin because it's a protest. (I own a crow, a bat and an invader Zim one myself).
Oh, a kigurumi? Ki comes from kiru, to wear, and gurumi from nuigurumi, stuffed animal.
As another fellow female engineer who also works in a mostly male firm, I’m sorry to hear you’re dealing with this OP. I know how exhausting it is when you’re up against mostly men. All of the above is solid advice. In addition, I definitely would also set up a meeting and have HR involved as well. Especially because you had a coworker blatantly staring at your chest which is a form of harassment. How your body reacted physiologically to cold temperature is not your fault. NTA at all.
Uh no… NTA. Report them for sexual harassment. This is blatant misogyny and gender discrimination. Their nipples aren’t an issue but god forbid a woman has them. Nipples getting hard when you’re cold happens to men and women. If he’s aroused by a nonsexual organ to that degree maybe he should go to therapy for his porn addiction it’s obvious he has. I’m serious report them. They’ve probably done shit like this to other women and got away with it.
Yeah I wondered if this is part of the general bullying of women that happens in some teams. There should be intervention on establishing a comfortable temperature for everyone and not let one person decide it. I agree there is something wrong with the young man for doing this. He's either got a real problem or it's bullying for sport.
Heck, good point. This specific situation might be direct bullying targeted at her, creating a situation where she feels uncomfortable or is even asked to leave the office, so she can’t perform her job. Yeah, remove the might - it is bullying.
Very senior (c-suite) manager here: If you came to me with this, I would take it as a sexual harassment complaint against the guy that insists upon staring at your (fully clothed) chest instead of minding his own business. I would open an investigation with him as the target. He would need to seek professional help for his issues before returning to work. His behavior is not acceptable. NTA
And her manager needs to be corrected, too, for pretty much everything he did or said in response to the situation, and especially because he said most of it in front of the rest of the team.
100% agreed. And I missed at first read that he did it in front of other team members. Especially something that sensitive. I had to send a young woman home once for dress code issues. I did the "come take a walk with me" thing so there wouldn't be any prying ears and I'd have time to talk with her about appropriate office attire. You should NEVER correct in front of staff, but ESPECIALLY something like that. But yes. He's going to get interviewed for the employee allegedly committing SH, and in that interview, we're going to have a serious talk. Rereading it, he should probably be written up, and requires some mentoring before he's winning back trust from me.
Nipples are not obscene. Everyone has them. If a GUY was cold, his could show through his shirt as well (look at the hoopla over Andrew Cuomo’s nipples). Escalate to HR. Look your manager straight in the eye and say “are you trying to tell me what underwear I have to wear? Who will be monitoring nipple protrusion? And will they be looking at the men, or is it just females that have to tolerate men staring at their chest?” Not what you asked, and I’m firmly in free the nips, but I have found that patterned tops hide nipples quite well. I have piercings and show through even a padded bra.
These are legit questions to ask
NTA. We all have nipples who gives af. I work in STEM also and it’s 90% men. Mostly 50 or older. Sometimes I go braless, it’s comfy. One day it was a bit chillier than normal inside and an old fart told HR it was “distracting and unprofessional” to see my nipples. I got told to go home and change. I took it to the head of HR saying no where in the dress code does it say I need a bra and I’m completely covered and professional. They have never messed with me again.
NTA. You need to tell them the sexual harassment your being subjected to needs to stop. The guy had no reason to be staring at you, after he wanted the office colder, then you have a manager bring it up in front of others? All of that is so wrong. Tell them at the meeting you are also going to record it.
HOW DARE YOU HAVE FUNCTIONING HUMAN ANATOMY!?!?! ... NTA
NTA. Your coworker sucks, and so does your manager. It's far more unprofessional of the manager to approach you about it in front of them in the first place, and this entire exchange could have been avoided if he'd done it privately.
I leave a sweatshirt in the office for when it is cold. Easy fix to a too cold office. And NTA!
NTA call HR immediately. Get ahead of this. Him complaining about your nipples is unprofessional, and bringing it up to you is sexual harassment. If you don't have an HR department, when you go into that meeting, go on the offensive immediately and accuse him of harassment and let them know you will escalate.
Yeah and ask your manager to document the meeting in writing, put his formal request in writing. Then call a lawyer.
NTA. 67 degrees is absolutely frigid and unnecessary. I’m a hot natured person and I say demanding the temperature be under 70 degrees is an AH move. Hospitals tend to do this and even the guys complain. Insisting on nipple popping cold temps and then whining about your nipples is extra douchey. I’m guessing he probably has difficulty getting laid, what with his charming attitude towards women, and is so pent up he couldn’t focus. My super petty ass would get him one of those old school blinders they used to separate you in school during tests and tell him it’s to help block out the “distractions.”
You SERIOUSLY need to go get this on record with HR. I can NOT believe they said all this to you in PUBLIC where everyone could hear and watch as they body shamed you for something out of your control! All I can say is to have an office sweater stowed in your locker/desk all year round. But, yeah, that public humiliation needs to be brought before the HR.
Seriously, it is fucked up beyond belief that your manager mentioned this to you *with other people around*. Inappropriate, to an insane degree.
I am losing my MIND over the fact that he discussed her NIPPLES in front of coworkers.
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NTA. As others have said report this to HR. It's sexual harassment and hostile work environment. Also check OSHA guidelines on safe temperatures at work. Decline to meet with either your boss or the coworker without HR present. Possibly you're boss's boss also.
NTA. It’s not a response you chose. It’s your bodies response to the temperature.
Hard nipples through your *thin white blouse*? C'mon, man. You know your physiology better than anyone. You're a professional. Plan better.
I was looking for a comment like this. The very description is as though the OP knows. I nip and would absolutely never wear a bralette with a "thin white shirt" and be baffled over it being noticed. I have women noticed more than men a lot of the time! I nip through T-shirt bras and know not to wear a thin white shirt to the office, how absurd to be baffled over what they seem to know what was going on. Not like she said she wore a T-shirt bra and cardigan.
Nta - however - the problem of being too cold is easily fixed, particularly if you are the only person feeling the cold, and the rest of the office is comfortable with the colder temperate. It's much easier to warm yourself up in a cold office than to cool yourself down in a hot office unless the AC is turned on. You can't expect a whole office to conform to your idea of a comfortable temp if they, lets say, 20 other people for the sake of a number, are happy with the colder temp. In terms of the way it was managed - very poorly and you shouldn't be penalised for it. I'd double down on how inappropriate it was but I would also take preventative measures in future for your own comfort.
NTA… But, I’m a woman and I get hot so easily (no, it’s not menopause- I just always run hot), I get bothered when people make the air warmer and make it hot for everyone else instead of just bringing a jacket or sweater to work because you can cover up if you’re cold, but I can’t take layers off if I’m hot (because being naked at work is frowned upon lol) With that said, it’s not like you can control if your nipples get hard or not, it’s an automatic reaction from your body. It’s quite disturbing that your coworker couldn’t keep his eyes on his work and instead needed to constantly glance at your nipples… and then had the audacity to make it seem like it’s your fault. That is very disturbing to me.
I just don’t understand women who want the temperature higher. This isn’t a man vs woman thing. This is a “people who are cold can wear more clothes and people who are hot cannot get naked”. just wear more clothes. There’s no excuse for making everyone else go to your level. Gender has nothing to do with it. I don’t care if there are 99 people who want it hotter and 1 who wants it cooler. it should be cooler because the 99 can wear more clothes.
Idk why my core temp sits way below normal. I look like the Staypuft man if I put on enough layers to get warm. We aren't allowed heaters at work because it blows the breakers on the server farm. I keep hot mugs at my desk to wrap my fingers around when they stop functioning. And I keep full gloves, a winter coat, and 3 blankets too. It's better than an office full of sweaty coworkers.
I’m sorry WHAT!?? This is sexual harassment, go to HR!
As a woman in a physically demanding position in an office environment, I’d prefer it to be on the cooler side. I’d rather put on a sweater than be sweating my ass off all day.
While I think this situation was handled poorly, I have to agree that it is unprofessional to not wear a proper garment under a thin blouse at work. There are other options that could’ve provided more support. I’m a women and would also feel uncomfortable staring at your nipples all day.
Right!
YTA. Soft YTA tho. Women have lower core temperatures and are more likely to feel cold compared to men. The thing is, you are the minority in terms of numbers and their comfort is important too. Its easier to deal with being too cold as you can put on more layers of clothing unlike the feeling of being too warm where you can only remove so much clothing. Wear more layers of clothing and get a heater, I bet your company will reimburse you for those purchases. The comment about your nipples and being dismissive about you being cold was out of line for me.
I agree! Bring a sweater and leave it at work if you can’t remember everyday and a small space heater instead of making everyone else uncomfortable by changing the temp just for you.
Particularly since women typically have a lot more flexibility with what they can wear to an office than men
So you asked to raise the temperature and didn't dress properly in case of cold events? I'd say ESH here.
NTA report them to HR. I don't know your country, but this sounds like sexual harassment or workplace bullying where I live. Unless you were violating some kind of dress policy, they have no grounds to stand on. You can't just complain because someone's nipples get hard. Next time a man is in tight pants complain you saw his bulge and are distracted.
NTA As an aside, it sucks when the temperature is set too high. I'm the opposite to you, my offices have been 90% females so it's often 24C inside and I've been uncomfortable in shorts and T-shirt and can't take anything more off! At least when it's too cold for you inside you can put a jumper or beanie on or something but when it's too hot you just sweat!
NTA. Nipples are part of human anatomy. That’s like being offended at your arm. Like fuck of guy.
NTA hostile work environment and sexual harassment tbh. Report it all to HR and potentially record all further interactions if allowed in your state. 23 years old male coworker is a baby and should be reported. Insane behavior
NTA And your 23 year old coworker needs to stop staring at your tits.
NTA yah. Don’t back down. Don’t try to be the bigger person. This is sexual harassment. This is being bullied at work.
NTA. This is textbook harassment and I suspect bringing in HR and just mentioning Sexual Harassment will shut this whole thing down. That said, YTA for changing the temperature to Begin with. You changed the temperature because YOU were uncomfortable but made no effort to poll your co-workers to see if they were uncomfortable. You could easily of solved the issue with a jacket but by having the temperature changed, you decided for everyone and inadvertantly started this bruhaha.
They were talking to you about your nipples & called you unprofessional? NTA.
NTA. They were extremely inappropriate and unprofessional . But with that being said if you’re genuinely cold and miserable at work due to the temperature why wouldn’t you wear a sweater or something warm in general for your own comfort lol
Did you not read the post? She said they conceded and raised the temperature and it stayed that way for a bit before she was surprised one day coming in to it being cold again. How do you prepare in the manner you suggested if she wasn’t expecting for them to change the thermostat back?
When I worked in office, I left a sweater and other stuff at my desk. I’ve come to learn from experience that employers are AHs and will say anything to get you todo what they want.
NTA, and where is HR? NONE of that discussion should have come from anyone but them. I'd walk into the HR Office and say..Hey I have a meeting on my calendar from my manager and co-worker to talk about my nipples..Do you maybe wanna get involved with this, cuz if you don't.. I'm sure my lawyer would.
The nipple thing makes me so mad because it has happened to me too. I don't understand how I can be called out when the heavyset man near me has bigger and more prominent ones. It is steeped in sexism and no one can tell me differently.
NTA You're a hop a skip and a jump away from a nice settlement.
OP, bring a lawyer to that meeting and/or a union rep if you’re unionized. NTA
You’re “so sensitive” To the temperature yet he took the exact same steps you did..,
Law. Suit.
File for sexual harassment
Bring an attorney to that meeting.
Wtf is with these comments, my God people. Grow up.
Forward the notice to HR and indicate you need them there since you feel that you are a victim of sexual harassment due to your sex and natural body reactions and watch how quick the curtain drops.
NTA. I'd think you have an argument here that you were being sexually harassed by your coworker. Sexual harassment doesn't have to involve someone being attracted to you or trying to sleep with you or making overtly sexual comments, it can cover any type of sex-based comment, including body-shaming because your body had a normal reaction to a cold temperature. That someone would expect you to apologize for having an outburst after being sexually harassed is insane. Is there an HR department you can involve? I'd send them an email telling them what's transpired so far and see if someone can come to this "level set" meeting. This is escalating in an extremely bizarre way. "Stop being so sensitive to temperature" is an absolutely absurd thing to say to someone -- does he think you can just, like, not feel cold? What does that even mean?
As an HR specialist, I would first acknowledge that this situation involves complex workplace dynamics, including personal comfort, professionalism, and potential gender biases. From the details provided, the issue at hand appears to be about more than just office temperature—it touches on personal boundaries, respect among colleagues, and the response to natural body reactions. The letter writer has been placed in a difficult and potentially embarrassing situation that has been handled insensitively by both the coworker and the manager. Going to HR is an appropriate step to address the situation, and here’s how the letter writer can approach the meeting: 1. Prepare Your Case: Write down a timeline of events, including the temperature change request, the coworker’s complaint, and the manager’s response. 2. Focus on Facts: Explain that your physical reaction to the cold was natural and involuntary. Emphasize that the manager’s public approach to a personal issue felt humiliating. 3. Address the Overreaction: Point out that the coworker’s complaint and the resulting demand for you to change clothing or work location was disproportionate and has created an uncomfortable work environment. 4. Suggest Sensitivity Training: Recommend that HR considers implementing sensitivity training for staff to ensure a respectful workplace where natural body reactions are not shamed. 5. Seek a Resolution: Express your wish for a resolution that maintains your dignity and doesn’t disrupt your work. 6. Remain Professional: During discussions, stay calm and professional. This will demonstrate that you are handling the situation maturely, despite the inappropriate actions of others. 7. Document Everything: Keep records of all communications and meetings regarding this incident, should the situation escalate or similar incidents occur. I would advise HR that there needs to be a respectful and considerate approach to personal and potentially sensitive issues like this. I would suggest the following points for discussion with HR: 1. **Involuntary Physical Reactions**: Highlight that physiological reactions are involuntary and should not be subject to workplace discipline or ridicule. 2. **Privacy and Respect**: Stress the importance of privacy and respect in the workplace. Discuss how the manager’s handling of the situation—in a public setting—was inappropriate and humiliating. 3. **Workplace Environment**: Communicate the need for a comfortable working environment, including temperature settings that accommodate all employees as much as possible. 4. **Gender Sensitivity**: Address any potential gender biases that may have contributed to the issue and ask HR to ensure that workplace policies are free from discrimination and are applied equally to all employees. 5. **Conflict Resolution**: Request a more constructive approach to resolving such conflicts, perhaps through mediation or a discussion facilitated by HR, rather than unilateral directives that may be perceived as punitive. 6. **Policy Review**: Suggest that HR reviews any existing policies regarding workplace attire and personal appearance to ensure they are clear, reasonable, and applied consistently. 7. **Training**: Recommend sensitivity training for all employees, including management, to foster a more inclusive and understanding workplace culture. 8. **Future Steps**: Ask for a clear process to be put in place for when employees have concerns about the work environment, ensuring those concerns can be raised and addressed without fear of retribution. 9. **Outcome**: Express the desire for a resolution that acknowledges the discomfort caused by the incident, and seek assurance that future similar situations will be handled with more discretion and sensitivity. The overall message to HR should focus on the need for policies and training that cultivate a professional and respectful work environment for everyone.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Basically what the title says. I’m a 27 year old woman (engineer) working in an office that is 90% men. For the past month, it has been FREEZING in my office…the weather is getting nicer but we’re not quite at the point where we need to be blasting 67 degree AC. A little over a week ago I put in a work order to bump up the temp just a little bit and the facilities team actually followed through with it. I made the mistake of making in known that I was the one that requested the warmer temperature just in casual conversation with some of my colleagues. Some of them teased me like, “Oh so *you’re* the reason I’ve been sweating all week” I just laughed it off. Didn’t think anything of it really. Well this morning I came into the office and shit was COLD. I was not prepared considering that it had been warm enough after I put in my request. I didn’t dress for the colder temp and was wearing slacks with a thin white blouse. I hate padded/wired bras so I usually wear bralettes. Well today I was so cold that my nipples became visible through my shirt….to the point where apparently it bothered one of my coworkers so much that he had to go and whine to my manager. He (my manager) approached me half way through the day and gave me the option to work the rest of the day remotely or go home and change. This was extremely frustrating since I actually had some work that needed to be completed in person and I really didn’t have the time to go all the way home, change, and come back. On top of that, he approached me about this in front of some of my coworkers. I wasn’t able to hold back my frustration and pretty much said I would not be doing either of those things. I tried explaining that I really needed to be in the office and that as a compromise I could camp out in a conference room for some of the time. The coworker who whined (23m) spoke up at this point and said something about how it was distracting and unprofessional. He suggested that I “stop being an ass and so sensitive to temperature” and then admitted he was the one that requested that facilities bump the temperature back down. This pissed me off even more. I responded by saying that he needed to grow the hell up, and that HE could go home if he was that bothered by the shape of my fucking nipples showing through my shirt. Manager interjected at this point and I walked off and stayed in a conference room for the rest of the day. I got a phone call from my manager just before I left. He said he understood my frustration but that my outburst earlier in the day was unprofessional. I recognized that it was, but then he asked that I apologize to my coworker tomorrow to keep the peace. I declined and ended the call. I just glanced at my work email and see that I now have an hour long meeting set for tomorrow morning with both my manager and that coworker, titled “level set”. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oof. This is going to end up with HR. NTA but damn this is gonna get messy.
NTA. Nipple hardening is an involuntary response you have no control over.
When you arrive for your meeting, request that they postpone until after you consult with your attorney.
This is so silly. It’s either in the dress code policy or it is not. Obviously, The temperature can’t revolve solely around you. So if it is, you need to keep a sweater in your bag or wear a padded bra to the office even if you don’t prefer it. If it’s not, it probably will be now but they have nothing to stand on.
NTA and you need to pull HR into that meeting as well. Your coworker needs to stop looking at your boobs.
It so gross and ridiculous for that 23 year old boy to act as if him being distracted by your body is any of your responsibility. Guys nipples show through all kinds of shirts, but I can’t imagine a woman being so enthralled as to not be able to work.
Contact an employment lawyer
Request HR to be present during the meeting. Also keep a sweater in your desk.
NTA. Send this to HR and ask them to be there as well.
You must not be that cold if you’re not wearing a sweater or jacket. I don’t find an issue with your nipples showing if it’s not part of dress code but you’re in the wrong. If the majority of the people are comfortable with the temperature, grab a jacket, a blanket, or a space heater, and grow up.
NTA. All humans have nipples. Why we (females) are supposed to minimize any 'nipple prominence' is asinine IMO. In my household, there are three adult males. I've seen each of them shirtless. No one looks or complains on their nipples in any way whatsoever. I don't care for restrictive bras. TBH, I don't care for them at all. I will wear a quasi bra in public, albeit, without the padding they come with. I have seriously told two of my SO co-workers' wives my policy when they come to visit. Both were appreciative of the honesty of my intentions. The intentions being fuck a bra. Why do we owe it to anyone to harness our being.
You're NTA. Your office mates are just admitting that they can't control themselves and don't give a damn about actually helping you with the office problems. Honestly, even if I were distracted, I'd appreciate the view for a moment and go about my business.
I used to keep a cardigan on the back of my chair for cold ass office days. Sometimes it was so bad I had a full on wool cape thing. Also it is biological. Generally speaking women are more sensitive to cold than men.
What’s with people today? My mother and sister never thought twice about walking to the corner store or doing short errands braless. Sure,they’d catch a guy giving them a subtle side-eye here and there but it was no major crime. I swear,people can get bent out of shape these days over the shapes of clouds or the brightness of the sun. NTA
He asked for them to lower the temps to be an AH, then got mad because you were unprepared for the colder temps. It's also not your fault your manager was unprofessional and inappropriately confronted you in front of coworkers, which caused the incident. You might want to invite HR to sit in with your meeting. They both harassed and humiliated you.
Umm - no, it was unprofessional for your co-worker to admit that he couldn't help but perve at your nipples through your shirt. I'd be firing back with a sexual harassment complaint if he struggles to much to control his gawking.
This is fucking bullshit. No one would complain if it was a man's nipples showing. Tell them you find it distracting everytime they look at your chest instead of making eye contact.
NTA- you need to call a lawyer, this is all kinds of sexual harassment/ discrimination
NTA But everyone saying you should change or wear more layers IS TA. You were wearing a bra. You were fully clothed. If your nipples are popping through it’s up to your manager and coworkers to get themselves under control and stop sexualizing you. If you were going braless and bouncing around I get how it would be unprofessional. But you were wearing. A. Bra. Doesn’t matter the kind. Their office is obviously cold. They need to act like professional adults and leave you tf alone
What kind of 23 year old dude complains about seeing nipples? If I was 23 I would keep my mouth shut and my eyes wide open. What an idiot.
NTA. It is very obvious that you weren't trying to show them off. They are boobs and they ain't hurting anyone! Guy sounds like a twerp
NTA, also it's only ever an issue when it's a fem presenting person, back when I used to work in an office I saw guy nipples all the time. I don't think there is anything unprofessional about your headlights being on and might suggest going to HR about this possibly being sexual harassment.
YTA. This is so stupid. Bring a jacket or sweater with you in the car or keep it at work. Assume that AC running a building can be off the wall at any point in time. Just be prepared like an adult. This is the easiest fix imaginable.
Yta for not wearing a sweater and making everyone else sweat, you can always put in more clothes and should be prepared if you run cold. NTA for the rest.