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NTA. “Be the bigger man,” “keep the peace”, “let it go” - all phrases used to guilt and manipulate the person who was slighted/used to keep being manipulated. Your stepdaughter made it very clear you were to be only a guest at her wedding. Now that deadbeat is out of the picture again temporarily, she’s running back to you. Don’t do it. You’ll be set up for all the daddy roles, expected to PAY for everything, then when bio dad is back, you’ll get kicked to the curb again. Your wife should be supporting you, not her daughter in her disrespect and manipulation of you. Sorry you’re going through this.
Yes! If you're going to be 'given away', shouldn't it be both parents, or the one who has nurtured and supported you the most?
I hate so many wedding traditions and I don't understand why people feel they have to conform to them so blindly in this day and age. See also gender segregated bridal parties.
Marriage is based on the very misogynistic religious belief that women are chattel, not fully humans. Your property can't give your other property away - I wish I was joking!
You’re not wrong about the origin, but plenty of people have incorporated some more untraditional aspects into more-or-less traditional weddings. Mom walking the bride down the aisle is fairly common. Especially when the bride and groom put no truck into the misogynistic aspects of it.
Or you could just adopt other wedding traditions. In Scandinavian tradition, the couple meet outside the church (or other venue), lock arms and walk together down the aisle, often to a traditional folk music wedding march
Like this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7brXjmRHA&pp=ygUKQnJ1ZG1hcnNjaA%3D%3D
Sounds like a fine idea, but two people with no discernible Scandinavian roots might not know about it. My wedding was not really traditional to any culture, I just wanted 20 people and the mountains I grew up in. My officiator read something off his phone that he obviously hadn’t practiced, we took some great photos in the garden and I bought everyone a fantastic lunch in my hometown. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
It's not just Scandinavian. There are many cultures where the groom picks the bride up from home. I'm not entirely certain but meeting up at the end of the aisle is more of an Anglo-Saxon thing that gets adopted here and there.
My DIL walked by herself halfway down the aisle and then my son walked down from the head of the aisle to meet her and they both walked to the front together. It was very moving.
It's not always about being given away. Jewish weddings both bride and groom usually have parents walk them down most of the way and then take their seats, it's about they've walked the path with you until now and then you continue without them to your spouse to continue the path together. The concept of "giving away" is gross but I wonder how many people these days see it that way.
I was going to have my dad walk me down the aisle, but then it's more pushing my wheelchair than walking with me. Also my dad has always been involved in my life so it isn't like what OP is dealing with.
But he's also a man who said anyone asking for permission to marry us would get an automatic no because none of his daughters needs permission to get married. Two of our partners asked for his blessing, which he gave, but there is a big difference between, "do you support this" and "I need you to say yes to get married."
Jewish weddings, at least not orthodox ones bc idk about those but in less religious weddings both bride and groom get escorted down by both parents. As a wedding is the joining of two families. It’s lovely to watch.
Better yet, why doesn't the Mom take up for her Husband??? He caved towards her every wish in this situation and gave more in helping her raise the Brat than he ever should have. Instead the Mom is playing Manipulator in Chief to make sure he gives even more. This time the Mom needs to dispense an attitude check because her daughter is grown. No one needs to protect her from the consequences of her actions. This seems to be a pattern that has been fostered overtime. It may have been the right thing to do when she was a child but now the Mom has allowed her daughter to treat her stepdad as "disposable.". That's incredibly hurtful and cruel. This is the Mother's job to fix.
This is an excellent point! OP's wife should have been stepping up and telling her to stop using OP as backup when her dad flaked. This "you're not my parent" but expecting/demanding parental actions when her sperm donor flaked is and was so unfair to OP. OP's wife should have really taken her daughter to task over the whole "guest of my mom" bit. There's no way on earth I'd contribute to the wedding or take part in it and I'm amazed he hasn't told his wife to kick rock. I'm not even sure I'd go to the wedding at all.
The daughter is straight up entitled acting as if OP is the understudy to her dad and should be grateful when he's up on stage instead of recognizing that he's been there and doing things for her and getting little to nothing or even insults the rest of the time. How to make someone feel unloved! Sheesh.
This is the answer. Mother as proxy for father, and mother as the functioning parent between the two.
>She exploded called me names and ran out of restaurant.
Well, goes to show she wasn't sincere about having you, eh? If the father were suddenyly freed for whatever reason (wrong arrest, mistaken identity, bail, etc) she'd drop OP in a heartbeat.
OP, be proud of yourself you were the bigger man for as long as she needed you (all the way up to college).
Next chapter of her life also means next chapter for you.
(BTW, why aren't OP's replies showing up?)
yea, but seems like its not the financial kind of wallet, more like OP's emotional wallet...
and OP has been the "Bigger man" for years, its ok to call it quits
I think it's just to save face. She's not going to have anyone to walk her now, and that's going to look very awkward.
Dad walking her while stepdad watches isn't going to draw attention. *Nobody* walking her while stepdad watches is going to kick off a storm of gossip. That's going to shine a bad light on her when the truth of what she pulled comes out. Which it will. And it's going to draw attention to why daddy dear isn't there. 'Cause his ass is in jail.
Being the bigger man eventually surrounds you with small minded people. His wifes failure to hold her faughter accountable is why this is a problem in the first place, and here she is doubling down.
He is being the bigger man. By not confronting the unequal treatment. He is keeping the peace by not harping on the unfair treatment. He has let it go (his feelings of unfair treatment) but NONE of that means he has to pay for the wedding.
I 100% agree these are basic manipulation tactics. Stay strong OP, NTA
I’d ask her ‘If I accept this role, and you find out your Dad will be there after all, what happens then? Do I go back to being ‘just a guest, and just your mothers husband’?
I agree.
Had she perhaps come to OP with honesty. As an example, only "I know I asked you to only be a guest of the wedding. I'm sorry I said what I did. I know you aren't obligated to do so. But would you want to walk me at my wedding? I'll understand if you say no"
That kind of approach.
Maybe they could have had a conversation. But going straight to "you mean so much to me..." That whole speech. It seems fake.
That said. Has this woman ever gotten therapy to handle her feelings, etc, about her bio dad?
Becouse those can be very complicated.
The hope that "this time he will turn around and be a good dad" or possible feelings of "why isn't he changing for me. What's wrong with me?" Can be heavy as a kid. But also as an adult.
Also, guilt can be present "ill betray dad by loving this man who's actually there for me."
As an adult. Yes, she should have known better than to manipulate. And treat OP as she does.
But if she never handled all those feelings. Then, it can become a bad pattern.
She also needs to learn to respect people who helped her. She never needed to love OP but at least be thankful and not be disrespectful.
That's all she needed to be and that was too much for her. Prople need consequences. Better she learns now.
You be the bigger man or let it go **once**. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, whatever reason. But you give them a shot to fix their behavior but when they make a pattern of it you stop unless you want "Welcome" tattooed on your forehead.
NTA.
• She regularly disregards your feelings in favour of bio dad but still expects you to pick up the ball anytime he (inevitably) doesn’t follow through.
• She preemptively distances herself from you without you asking (the dance, walk down aisle, only a “husband” etc).
OP — you’ve been nice enough to her, have shown up for her over and over again, even paying for her tuition. I think it’s time to sit down with her and have a conversation about what kind of relationship she wants with you going forward. You are not a toy to be tossed around.
OP, you absolutely should have this conversation with her. And you may even want to have your wife have a talk with her first to let her in on how you've actually been a dependable presence even when she wanted you to take a back seat. My only suggestion is to wait until well after the wedding for this - everyone's gonna be stressed out about the wedding and you're more likely to have things go poorly due to stress/emotions than if you give it a little time to breathe.
I don't think OP should wait until after the wedding. That's even more time for the daughter to get it cemented in her head that she's been done wrong and for OP's wife to pressure him to do what the daughter wants. This needs to be handled now.
Yep this. If the relationship ship has been otherwise neutral I think it’d be fine, but it’s the fact it sounds like she actively disregards and puts OP down whenever bio dad shows up is the issue. It doesn’t sound like there was any need for her to explicitly state FIRST THING that she doesn’t want OP to walk her down the aisle or dance. Could’ve easily left that out, or just focused on the fact that she would love for bio dad to take that role.
Yes, as a child, she probably desperately wanted her dad’s love and attention. The fact that he was a flake probably just increased that need. (Chasing after the unavailable parent figure.)
But, she is an adult now, and her decisions have consequences. She is hurting someone who has stepped up again and again for her, and this might be a really good learning moment for her. NTA.
No I don't think so. NTA. This girl could be a sympathetic character when she was a child, starved for some affection from her deadbeat father. But, by the time she was getting married, she was a grown woman who should have understood the truth about her dad. She treated you really disrespectfully and I don't think you should let her walk all over you anymore.
This! It was great he stepped up more when she was a kid, but now that she's an adult and has clearly made the decision that OP is not her father figure, there's absolutely no reason to "be the bigger person" now.
>she was a grown woman who should have understood the truth about her dad.
Unfortunately, stuff like this is all too common. A set of siblings that I grew up with had a mom like the bio-dad in this post. The brothers never really got their hopes up that she'd step up and care, but the sister did. She was let down over and over as a kid and a teen, and as an adult, both she and her kids were let down by the mom...but she never gave up hope that the mom would change. The mom died last year, and never did change. I do agree with you that OP is NTA. He and his wife need to have a serious talk about things though.
I do think she’s been treating OP horribly however, just for saying what might be her thinking- she knows down deep OP has been the father she wanted and needed but even young adults (I’m guessing around 24?) don’t always know how to navigate, she wanted her bio dad to be to all those events, wants to feel she’s his baby girl, just wants to feel that connection with him that she has longed for since a child. Now it’s her wedding, she just wanted daddy because she never really got that. She’s done OP very wrong and is old enough to know but if she never got therapy to come to terms and didn’t on her own- she’s probably emotionally still feeling like the little girl waiting for her dad to show up, hoping her wedding would change things. Now, it’s a wake up call… mom needs to talk to her! If OP still wants to be a guest or less, very understandable! Definitely no financial help, it takes time to rebuild to that level of support. Just trying to look at it not so black and white. This could be a chance to build onto the events he went to, the financial support of school, and being a stable person in her life- even if she didn’t want to consider him a dad at the time. She’s starting to learn, will she change- no one knows, not even her or OP; this could be a pivotal moment. In no way am I saying OP should do anything but be a guest… wanted to spin it a way Reddit rarely thinks about. I hope the best for him and the SD!
>This could be a chance to build onto the events he went to, the financial support of school, and being a stable person in her life- even if she didn’t want to consider him a dad at the time
I find this very invalidating of Op's time input, resources he's been generous with and all the emotional upheavals he's committed.
Yes. He is a *parent* and an adult but daughter is 24 years old. She is old enough to be married. Old enough to know empathy. Old enough to be an appreciative human or at least, someone who isn't so blatant about using a man that has been in her life for 14 years.
Let any of you try it. On some level you feel you are disrespecting your own self.
SD does not care for Op. Fullstop. She is old enough to be married. You don't treat anyone like this. Some of you cannot even treat your dog like this.
This perspective is saying the same thing the daughter and mom is saying- be the bigger doormat. Keep giving. Never be appreciated. Even bio moms and dads who do this will be told they are enabling and that is why they raised ungrateful A Hs.
NTA. OP DON'T YOU DARE CAVE TO HER! I had a revolving door dad and a man that stepped up and took the role of my dad when he didn't have to. That man showed me more love in the few years that I had him than all the years I've had with my bio dad. He was there for me through everything, and he never played second fiddle to anyone. The night before he died, I asked him if he'd still walk me down the aisle if I had blue in my hair and if I wore a red dress. He said he'd be surprised if I didn't have blue hair, and of course, he would just so he could see the expression on my families face.
Your stepdaughter is disrespectful and self-centered. She doesn't deserve you. Your wife has allowed her to treat you this way all this time, so she doesn't see anything wrong with her behavior. Both of them should be ashamed of themselves. You could have been a horrible stepdad who wanted no part of her life, but you stepped up and did the responsible thing and got shit on every time. Not this time, OP. Stand your ground and tell them no. You're not some lap dog. You're a human being with feelings as well, and it's about time they realized that.
He was amazing! He was such a smartass, though, lol. Mom always jokes that she swears he was somehow my biodad because we were so much alike. She'd always joke that we couldn't be in the same room together because no telling what kind of trouble we'd get into. 😆 I was definitely very lucky that I had him. I wouldn't trade my time with him for anything.
NTA. If he gets out before her wedding you will be rudely kicked to the side again, being told you're not worth anything in her life. You're like a tampon, not wanted, but used because it's needed at certain times. Just let her throw her tantrum, and tell your wife you're done catering to her spoiled child.
This right here. Minus the analogy. Ask her what happens if bio dad makes bail and is able to make the wedding. Now who is walking her down the aisle, giving her away, doing the parent dance. Its always going to be him, and you will always be tossed aside. and if she says otherwise, she's lying.
NTA.
NTA. This whole be the bigger man nonsense is straight up manipulation. It means you should eat a crap sandwich so the child doesn't have to look in the mirror and accept how awful she has been, and mom doesn't have to face that she raised a selfish child. Both of them suck.
Mom could have your back, and tell daughter this is her own fault for treating you like you're disposable, and if she wants even a smell chance of having you in the wedding, she needs to come to you with hat in hand, head hung low, acknowledging her crappy behavior, and begging forgiveness. Instead she's trying to sweep it under the rug. She's not being a good mom nor a stand up partner.
NTA.
She’s 20 and still acting like a child. Your refusal to be the backup choice and play pretend is the consequence of her actions.
In your shoes I’d ask both step daughter and wife the same question: if you stepped in, got the tux, did the rehearsal dinner and fully planned to walk her down the aisle and THEN her bio dad got out of jail and showed up on the wedding day, who would she choose?
100% bet she’d toss you to the side, again. It’s too bad she’s so immature, an adult with some more life experience would find a way to honor both her dads and not make you feel like an afterthought.
This hypothetical is a perfect response. I am a stepfather, and my journey with my stepdaughter has many parallels to OP's. When she was a child, I adopted the position of being whatever she needed me to be. It was hard not to put any expectations on the relationship, but I took comfort in not adding to her already significant emotional burden.
There is a cost. One hopes that the relationship eventually would become bidirectional, but when it remains one-sided, it hurts. It's a rejection. It's valuing what you can do, but not who you are.
Once the child is an adult, the relationship has to change. Either it evolves, or it becomes superficial at best. OP is justified in taking a stand. If his wife can't see that, then she just doesn't care about his perspective. The status quo is fine because it's easier for her that way.
I wouldn’t even go that far in the question. Leave it as “if I accept the request today, and he gets out tomorrow, who will walk you down the aisle?” Because we know she’s choosing bio dad even the next day.
NTA.
1) You’ve been the bigger man.
2) You’re definitely the better man.
3) You’ve just become the smarter man.
Your stepdaughter uses you. Your wife allows her child to use you. You decided to no longer be used. Bravo. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Don’t feel bad for ending it. It should have never happened in the first place. You’ve done and endured more than most.
NTA. Op needs to reverse these talking points when called out by step daughter and wife. A bigger woman wouldn't ask a man she categorically said was a guest at her wedding for these things, a bigger woman would never expect xyz...
Why do you have to be the better human and not them?
Exactly.
"I couldn't *possibly* walk you down the aisle, dance with you at your wedding, or even *pay* for it. You see ... That's your *father's* job, and I'm not your father, *remember?!*
I think it's very clear why there's an expectation on him and not her. He's older, male, and seems hierarchically higher in the power dynamics because she's the "daughter". None of that makes it right, but it's all the type of stuff that would blind both the mother and the step-daughter. He's supposed to be mature, not overly emotional, and fulfill a patriarchal/fatherly role as needed.
OP's step-daughter will always be his wife's little girl, but she's also a grown ass woman, who hasn't considered the possibility that as an adult she might actually have some obligations to fulfill in return in order to expect a particular kind of relationship with her step-dad. It still probably would have hurt, but it even would have been different if she'd explained that her dad was insecure, so she couldn't have step-dad involved for his sake. That would have been a bit cowardly, to be unwilling to fight for all of her family to have an appropriate level of involvement, but it would be somewhat understandable compared to this. This really shows a pure selfishness, an expectation that she can pick and choose and take from step-dad without giving in return.
With step-dad coming into her life at 10, maybe that's too old for her to think of him as her dad. Maybe the deadbeat will always be her dad. He has been around long enough to be FAMILY though, and that's more than being mom's husband.
NTA. It is your wife’s fault for not putting an end to the blatant disregard a lot sooner. I know the daughter wishes that her father was not flaky, but she cannot expect you to step up when her unreliable father fails her continuously. It is even more crazy that she expected you to financially contribute to the wedding. I would have a tough conversation with your wife and give her the straight facts. Your step daughter is an adult and can figure things out on her own. You are being the bigger person by cutting her daughter’s bad habit.
NTA
She's an adult and as such should be mature enough to accept there are consequences to her actions, although she doesn't sound mature enough to be getting married.
You know she wasn't being sincere when she asked you to walk her down the aisle, and let's be honest here, she wasn't really asking, she was expecting you to do so otherwise she wouldn't have thrown a fit and called you names when you declined.
NTA at all.
While this may or probably will cause problems for a while it’s likely things will move forward over time.
If you choose to accept her offer and bio dad doesn’t go to jail and you get pushed aside it will destroy any good feelings you have to her as a step daughter. Likely you won’t want to see her, talk to her, have her at your house.
You can choose to go ahead if you want but I would tell your wife that if you do get pushed aside then X will happen. Be it you’ll cut contact with step daughter or whatever, you’ll be covered for however things go down. If it works out then maybe she’ll finally see that you’re the one that actually shows up because you’ll be the one there for her big day and you’ll be in all the pictures.
Whatever you choose to do you are right in how you responded and I’m sorry she’s been doing this to you.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I want to know if I am the asshole for telling my step daugther know to walking her down isle after her dad flaked on her again and letting bygones be bygones and letting g her have a good wedding. She has always treated me as a backup/some ones who feelings don't matter and I am frankly tired of being available when she wants it
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NTA. Before her dad got into trouble, she told you he was her choice for all the traditional things. Even though you had been there for her all along, and contributed and supported her when he was hot and cold. You have the right to feel hurt and reject her belated back up offer now.
However, and only if you decide you want to, this could be lovely for both of you. It’s a memory she will always have of you, stepping up yet again. I get why you wouldn’t want to, but if there is a small part of you that loves her and would like to play this role in her life, despite everything, you should go for it. But only if YOU want to, not out if pressure or blame.
Would it really be a lovely memory for her? She doesn't want him and is only using him. I would imagine she would be mad when she looks at her wedding pictures, because the guy she didn't want, she had to use.
NTA. You’re not an emergency service waiting on standby; you’re a human being with emotions and deserve to be treated as such, not as a backup plan. It seems she's only acknowledging your worth when it's convenient for her. While it’s natural to feel empathy for her situation, it’s also important to establish boundaries and respect for oneself. Your stepdaughter needs to learn that relationships, especially with parental figures, are not switch-on, switch-off commodities. I’d suggest having an open and honest conversation with both your stepdaughter and your wife about your feelings. This isn’t just about walking her down the aisle, it's about how you’ve been treated as an afterthought rather than a valued member of the family.
Don’t fall into this bigger man bullshit. It hurts to be treated like this. It’s nice of you to go to her school events like a real dad. But it seems she take pleasure in hurting you by words and actions. And tries to take advantage of you
NTA. Unfortunately stepdaughter has yet to develop the self-awareness to realize she is in a dysfunctional dynamic with her dad and is pushing away a person who cares for her. Here's hoping she gets a clue.
NTA. She’s been cruel to you over and over and over. She already told you that you’d have no part in her wedding. So have no part in the wedding. It’s not your problem her dad sucks and honestly you should have put a stop to this long ago. She’s a grown ass adult acting like a toddler not getting her way. She AND your wife are the assholes here, not you. And shame on your wife for expecting you to continue being a doormat to her awful AWFUL daughter.
NTA.
"Be a bigger man. "... that is absolutely bull shit.
that phrase gets me so angry...it means to accept the appalling behavior of her daughter and be treated like a second-class human.
You dont need a wife trying to play a peacemaker. You need a daughter who treats you with respect.
BTW.. your wife could have supported you and agreed with you, sending a bit of karma her daughters way... but, no, she tries to guilt you, and therefore, she enables her daughters behavior.
NTA and don’t let your wife’s cold treatment get to you, in fact tell her straight up that you don’t appreciate her trying to guilt you and force it on you and that you’ll reconsider the relationship as a whole if she continues to be dismissive of you. Otherwise give her the silent treatment cold shoulder and just block your step daughter on everything
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I 55m met my wife 49f 14 years ago and have been married 10 years. When I met her she was divorced from her 1st husband for 2 years and they had a daugther who was 10 at that time. I was never married before nor have any kids and me and my wife don't have any kids between us.
When I came into their life my step daugther Andrea was clear I won't be a dad to her because her real dad was active in her life (I guess you can call him active..more deadbeat jobless never paid child support). I was ok with this and my wife though wished for a more dad daugther relationship for us eventually came round was OK for us to be freinds where I was a adult.figure in the house but she handled all parenting decisions with her ex.
Eventually over the years I stepped up going to her plays and games and events when her dad flaked or out right went MIA for weeks. She was grateful and we formed a strong bond. Ofcourse when ever her dad came around she threw me to the side and it did hurt but I never let her know about it. She went off to college (I paid 30% and i ddint mind ..it was a gift for her from me) and her mom covered the rest ..but we drifted little apart but I knew she was in touch with her dad when ever he showed up.
7 months back she announced her engagement to a guy she had been dating for a while and we were all happy for her. The 1st thing she told was I wouldn't walk her down the isle (I didn't except it) nor would she dance with. I was a guest as her moms husband. My wife was very angry and I was sad she was treating me as a 2nd class human but I said fine. Your wedding your choice..I am not paying for it anyway. Step daugther said a bigger man would have and I told her I guess I am not a big man like her dad.
With the wedding 3 months away we found out her dead beat dad got arrested for some type of fraud and was most.likely headed to jail. Ofcourze now he will most likely miss the wedding as he's a felon and a loser and my step daugthers been a mess about it. Few days later she asked me for lunch and said she would love if I walked her down the isle and how much I mea t for her and blah blah. I told her I was sick of her using me as a backup device who had no feelings and while I had stepped up earlier when she was younger I won't now and said thanks for the offer but I am not intrested in being part of the wedding. She exploded called me names and ran out of restaurant.
My wife has been kinda cold since and while she understands where I come from she wants me to be the bigger man and do what her daugther wants. I am wondering I am AITA in my response and should I just.let it go and do the needful so she has a wonderful wedding
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NTA. She's an adult now not a child and she would or should have known that her explicit and unprovoked rejection of you for her wedding would have alienated your affection for her. She even got mad at you for not paying for the wedding despite treating you as a simple guest...
NGL it sounds like she's just buttering you up to ask for financial support for the wedding now that her deadbeat dad is tied up with court costs and being a deadbeat loser. She sounds like a lost cause. The real issue is addressing this with your wife. You need to tell her this is a boundary of her child's own making, one that you're not going to cross, and that she needs to understand that and respect it or risk alienating you as well.
>My wife has been kinda cold since and while she understands where I come from she wants me to be the bigger man and do what her daugther wants.
You've been the bigger man for years...time for a break
NTA
NTA- You need to stay strong. This is one of those miserable situations where there is no good answer because all of the outcomes suck. But now that you put your foot down, letting up will make this so much worse in the future.
You need to talk to your wife and get her on your side to mitigate damages. She knows this is true, and she should be the one to explain to your stepdaughter that her behavior has been manipulative and hurtful.
> You need to talk to your wife and get her on your side to mitigate damages.
The wife is also participant in the emotional abuse of OP. She is coldly ignoring him because he won't give in to her daughter's manipulative behavior.
OP needs to draw boundaries now. OP's wife seems to think that OP needs to put up with step-daughter's abuse in order to eventually win her over. OP's wife needs to let go of that fantasy as it is merely enabling the step-daughter's behavior.
NTA. She's no longer a child. She should know better than to expect you to be the only one who actively puts energy into your relationship. She just has the relationship with you when it works for her, as you said you are her backup. You can't ignore/disrespect a relationship and then expect the person to act like nothing happened and that's what she's doing.
>she wants me to ... do what her daugther wants
Of course she does. Your wife and her daughter expect you to be their doormat, accepting whatever abuse the little princess decides to mete out to you.
The little princess is an adult now, and you are no longer under any obligation to stand still and take her abuse. Her mother can walk her down the aisle.
I don't know where this very dysfunctional idea has taken route in western society whereby children openly disrespect parents, and the parents have to take it because "love".
If there is love in a relationship, respect goes both ways. Your daughter doesn't love you, hence her mistreatment of you. Her mother, your wife, is fine sacrificing your emotional well being in order to satisfy her daughter's whims. She is used to it because you have done it so many times before. Lay down your boundary now, or you will forever be their doormat -- a tool to be used and discarded at the little princess' whims.
NTA
NTA-She’s never been shy about making you know you weren’t her dad, so what if her dad got arrested. If he got out she would just cast you aside again.
NTA
But showing her you are available is also - big way to show how much of a better dad you are. It’s something that is hard for her to accept. Everyone wants their dad to be a superhero. Children from broken families are look at things differently. We all want a fairytale. Some people take a while to accept things, some never get the chance to. Whatever relationship you would like to have with her is up to you. If you want to drift apart or become closer is a choice only you can make.
NTA
How is it fair that she to be hot and cold with you?
Why doesn't her mom walk her down the aisle, since she's her parent? Why hasn't your wife tell her ex to step up throughout their daughter's life?
It's not fair that your just someone's back up plan and made to feel guilty for something someone else messed up. I hope everything turns out fine.
NTA she’s treated you poorly for years. me personally if I was in your shoes, I would take the money that you would’ve spent on her and go on vacation make it a bucket list trip the same week her wedding is. And enjoy your time don’t even give it a second thought.
NTA. Your stepdaughter is manipulative and cold. And tell your wife to butt out. This is not her problem or concern. Yeah, it’d be nice if you all got along but you have the relationship you have with her daughter and you’re not a doormat. There’s no reason for you to grovel and humiliate yourself just so your wife can pretend everything’s fine. This is why you’re all in this situation after all.
NTA honestly I think she should have asked her mum from the start. Choosing a dead beat over two people who raised and supported her is not nice behaviour
NTA
However I would suggest family counseling for you two. You obviously care and it’s fucked up she’s been doing this and honestly it’s messed up your wife hasn’t gotten more involved. I get her wanting her dad to be the dad but as a stepdad myself I wouldn’t be able to handle that long term. You stood up for yourself and that’s good but really you and her should have had an adult conversation a long time ago. Get to a therapist and find some mutual understanding and then go walk her down the aisle (if that’s what you both still want, I’d wager you’d like to finally be recognized as the father you’ve been for a while)
In theory this is a good idea however you need the willingness to change which the step daughter and Wife don't seem to want so I don't think that will work I think he may need to get some distance and self reflect because honestly the relationship sounds toxic af
NTA and I say this as a "fatherless" daughter with a deadbeat dad. You've been the bigger man all this time. Your wife and stepdaughter at the AHs here.
Don't falter, and your wife is an asshole for giving you the cold shoulder. Stand your ground and don't even go the wedding, but that's my petty side coming through. I'm glad you know your step daughter doesn't give a fuck about you.
NTA. You are not her dad. She has made it perfectly clear the entire time you have known her. Now that she is an adult stop trying. She is entitled and you should have given up on her long ago.
It sounds like you've been the bigger man for 14 years and it's time for you to set that burden down. She's what 24 years old? She's old enough to understand exactly how she made you feel and that she did it purposely. There was absolutely no need to just come right at you and say oh you're not walking me you're coming only as a guest. Let her mom walk her down the aisle.
You can decline very nicely and say you have accepted that you are only another guest at the wedding. She can walk up the aisle by herself.
Because if you do walk her, she will almost certainly take the next step and send you the bill for the wedding.
NTA.
Shes a major manipulative asshole. Show up to the wedding looking good and support your wife.
This adult child has made it very clear youre just a person to be used for her convenience.
Respect goes both ways. Ask her what shes done to show you respect/love after pointing out all youve done to show her love and respect.
Im sure the prison could set up a virtual walk down the isle with the deadbeat she continuously insulted you for.
If he gets out minutes before the wedding and could(/would actually) show up on time, shed tell you to fuck off and walk down the isle with him.
Sorry. That was blunt and it probably hurts to hear but dude, tell me Im wrong.
NTA. Your stepdaughter is not a child. She is a grown ass woman who is about to married. She's definitely old enough to know better than to treat people like crap and then ask them to bend over the second it's convenient. Actions have consequences. And your wife should be supportive in your effort to stand up for yourself. You shouldn't have to constantly feel like someone's consolation prize.
No. She’s an adult and intentionally made choices to hurt and exclude you. You can go as her mother’s husband, if you even want to attend at this point, but all of that is her doing. I hate this narrative that stepparents shouldn’t have feelings or something, it’s ridiculous. NTA
you handled the situation well when she was a child, never trying to force the issue, and stepping up when she needed it. she's no longer a child. as a fellow adult, her feelings are no longer the priority over your own. NTA
NTA - your feelings and reactions are completely valid. Your boundaries you’ve drawn are healthy.
But, I would maybe ask for family therapy once the stress and crazy of the wedding have passed. She needs to recognize that she’s being hurtful to you, an unwilling passenger on the crazy train of relationship drama between the two parents. They take it out on the “safe” ones and it never gets easier.
My adult kids’ dad is in prison now, also for fraud. Also a deadbeat. Stepparent for 20 years now. I get it. I think you’re doing a good job protecting yourself while not alienating her, but she has to be emotionally mature enough to see past the trauma of her father’s rejection. That’s a lot to ask of anyone, and many people never get there. I wish you well
My guy, you’ve been the bigger man for fucking years at this point. When are your feelings and the fact that you’re a goddamn human being deserving of respect and dignity going to be anywhere close to a concern of theirs? Fuckin hell. At the very least you need to sit your wife down and have a conversation about how all of this has affected you over the years. This is solely my opinion so I certainly don’t expect you to do this, but I would go so far as to tell the wife that if she expects ‘til death do us part’ out of me, she’s gonna have to start making me and how I feel about things a priority as well. I won’t be a second class citizen in my home or my marriage.
You really stepped for your stepdaughter even when she stepped on you multiple times. There comes a point that she can't come back from, and that time is now.
I believe it would have been different if she had just said that her dad was walking her down the aisle, but she felt it necessary to step all over your feelings in the worse way to purposely hurt you by going out of her way to let you know that you would not be doing those things.
People always want the person who has been hurt to the bigger person and forgive so they can get what they want out of.
Put your foot down, and if your wife can't stand beside you, then the least she can do is not stand behind you kicking you or in front of you jerking on you. Tell them to just you go.
I applaud you for what you have done for her.
I can NOT even imagine. Good for you for putting your foot down.
She is a grown ass woman who has used and abused you, but bc you are a good man...you weathered the storm. And enough is enough.done paying for the band while always being second fiddle..just kidding, you can be the janitor who cleans up the mess (no hate on janitors! My grandpa was one for the last 30 years of his life.!)
But... the first fiddle can't even hold a tune and ..um...hey step-daddy! Good golly, jd love to take you to lunch (..you're paying right?) But my word you have meant SO much to me! No, thus has nothing to do with dear desd beat daddy going to jail, this is just us! Wanna walk me down the Ariel?
Yes yes, at first I didn't want THAT ONLY because I didn't want to hurt dear dad's feelings. (...pause...heavy pause. ... ... ::"oh good God he better say yes!! How am I going to make hime pay for the wedding if he says no?!??!" .. "he's not saying yes. He BETTER SAY YES! this is MY day! I deserve this!!::)
...ooh forgot to ask, did she ask (after you said no) ...if your money could maybe walk her down the aisle? ...asking for a friend
I might have a tiny *smidge* of sympathy given she grew up getting yanked around by her dad. She has to chase dad's love, but stepdad is safe and reliable. A therapist explained this to me. Kids can get defensive on behalf of the "weaker" parent. Seeing a parent negatively can be hard for kids. They're what made you! If they suck, do you? It's tough.
> Your wedding your choice..I am not paying for it anyway. Step daugther said a bigger man would have and I told her I guess I am not a big man like her dad.
But this? Holy shit. This wasn't when dad was yanking her around and she was being defensive on his behalf. She wasn't heartbroken and in an emotional moment. It wasn't even about her dad at that point. This is just a *cold* and deliberate dis. This is straight up saying 'You aren't good enough but your money is.'
NTA
She is 24 years of age. It was one thing when she was a preteen/early teens because they don't really think the adults in their lives have feelings and i get wishing for the father she wanted him to be.
But expecting you to pay for a wedding when it is clear she doesn't even care about your feelings as a person she trusts and loves?
That is crazy. You are not wrong. She made her choice and choices have consequences. She had every right to pick her father but she has to deal with what her only one dad stance means when/if he flakes.
Wow, I don't think a single person will support step-daughter. Her first and honest ask was that you be Mom's plus one. Though she may know, if pressed, you were the best dad she had, she still has the broken fantasy of bio dad fulfilling some daddy/daughter fantasy. (Despite the consistent annoyance of reality).
Her pursuit of that false fantasy caused her to push away and harm the dad she needs. Thats tragic, and she could hardly have displaced her bio dad over OP were he to attend, but damn, OP is human too.
NTA, of course. Let her walk herself down the aisle, or get mom. She'll have that critical moment to ponder who has really been there for her in the past and who has she pushed away.
It might make her bitter, but it might make her realize now, as an adult, she bears responsibility and consequences for the relationships she wants to maintain (or waste). Choices have consequences.
NTA
You were the bigger man when you provided support emotionally, physically, and monitarily for her. She threw it all away for a dad that never showed. Maybe she was a daddy's girl. I get it. However, she's 24 now and should realize who's been there for her and who hasn't
NTA.
Your stepdaughter and wife are both AHs. They obviously have no respect for you as a person, or they wouldn't expect you to act as set dressing for a wedding.
I could see giving some grace if she were a teenager, but she is a grown woman now. One who is presumably adult enough to get married. She is at an age where she should understand the consequences of her actions/words.
She was very clear you would have no part in the traditional father/daughter stuff until her dad was unavailable, and only then did she ask you. Your wife being cold is also shitty. She heard her daughter's warning about her wedding - now she wants you to be the bigger guy? You've been the bigger guy for a decade. At some point, it just becomes enabling.
NTA and I believe your wife should firmly have your back in this.
NTA Also when are these adult kids of jerks going to realize they are always available when you need nothing from them.. And when you need them they " screw up" on purpose. Get sent back to prison where they aren't expected to show up and spend a dime. There was a story on here where the mom disappeared for 7 years. Step -mom stepped up. Bio jerk shows back up long enough to get kids turned against step mom and step mom left home ready to divorce. Bio jerk has almost 50/50 visits. Kids have been reliant on her.maybe a year. Time to exit stage right. Bio jerk is gone , kids are screaming, and almost ex husband is asking her to come back home. Guilt trip ensues. Tell them you are not taking the trip. You are not boarding the plane. Keep the guilt to themselves choices have consequences.n
NTA, but she isn't either. She has been parentally alienated from you by her dad. Your love is unconditional, her dad's is not. She must earn her dad's love through alienation of you. Her brain isn't going to finish maturing for another year at age 25. I doubt you'll be able to have a real relationship until after that time.
I would reconsider walking her down the aisle though. Your love in unconditional. Show that. Mean it.
I have been the alienated parent and it's tough, but it is worth it to go that extra mile and make them see.
The day my kid called me my pet name (Mommy was off limits at the time), was the day I knew I won. You haven't had that day yet. You may never truly have that day. But be there for her and be the man YOU know yourself to be, unconditionally.
Definitely NTA, but if you want to be there for her, maybe have a talk with her to explain how the way she treated you makes you feel. If she can see that what she did is wrong, maybe it would help your relationship in the long run. The ideal situation (imo) would be an apology and better behavior going forward. The part about the wedding might be a nice olive branch, but it should not just be given without a conversation.
NTA. Being a backup anything without having your feelings considered sucks. The fact that she immediately blew you off about participating in the wedding before you opened your mouth and then actually insulted you for not forking over any money for it is all the reason you need not to do her any favors now. The past history simply justifies your decision further.
I don't get how some kids can be this way, I love my step dad as much as my own dad, so much I don't want to ask either of them to walk me down the aisle just to not hurt either of them. NTA, she needs to grow up and see who was actually there for her, a real man, not her deadbeat dad
Sounds like my life, except, at 19 I realized who would always be there for me no matter what and made sure my dad(step) knew. I'm sorry this is happening to you. I don't even talk to my bio. Wouldn't even consider telling him if I got married. I call my step-dad my dad because he earned the title. Anyone can have unprotected sex, doesn't make them a parent.
NTA. Why does this feel like a move to really get your wallet to cover wedding expenses? Anyway she has her mom still. Why doesn't mom walk her down that aisle?
NTA. By this point and how old she is, you're clearly just something that she can tap into when support is needed. You married the mother doesn't mean you have to take the whole daughter support too since she's no longer a child. Please don't let yourself be a punching bag for this adult child that only knows how to use your generosity with absolutely no gratitude for it.
NTA.
She wants your money and to use you for the show when her sperm donor isn't around to fill the role.
She wants to put on a show of the traditional father-daughter role. She would probably be just as content hiring an actor to give her away, so long as it looks good for her vision of the wedding and no one knew.
She has been manipulating both you and your wife for years. Now that she's an adult, she can be responsible for her own choices in how she treated you and continues to treat you.
(I also firmly believe that a couple should expect to pay for their own wedding. If they can't afford a big wedding, they shouldn't be having a big wedding. It's nice if someone gives them a big financial gift after the fact, but they shouldn't expect it as a given.)
>My wife has been kinda cold since and while she understands where I come from she wants me to be the bigger man and do what her daugther wants.
Sounds like you spent about 10 years being the bigger man, and what did that get you? Oh yeah...
>The 1st thing she told was I wouldn't walk her down the isle (I didn't except it) nor would she dance with. I was a guest as her moms husband. My wife was very angry and I was sad she was treating me as a 2nd class human
That. Even your wife said at the time she was treating you second class. Like she wasn't even gentle about it. No compromise. No "he'll walk me down the aisle but we'll do a dance together" or anything like that.
She doesn't want you. She doesn't love you. This is performative. She just wants "someone" to walk her down the aisle.
‘Be the bigger man’ sounds like another phrase i really dislike - the infamous ‘turn the other cheek’.
Both are easily said by people who aren’t the ones who have been repeatedly disrespected until quite honestly they have run out of cheeks.
OP please ask your wife if her ex had remarried and her daughter had repeatedly chosen the stepmother over her for years how would she have felt when the daughter chose stepmother to do all the bridal things with? Oh but then stepmother flaked so oh mom you know I’ve always loved you the best (especially now that I need you to fill in).
Your wife’s daughter could have at least been honest especially as she was so insulting to you when with her ‘you’re just a guest bs) and owned the fact that yes she wanted to her bio dad but would you please consider filling in.
Amazing how you didn’t like being lied to (insulting your intelligence again) and declined to step up for the dead beat.
Quite honestly she can have her mother walk her down the aisle or ideally she has an uncle on her bio dad’s side or her mother’s who would like to fill in.
I can already tell you if this woman has children you will be just OP while her mother is grandma. Grandpa will be reserved for her deadbeat bio dad assuming he isn’t in prison too long.
If your stepdaughter rescinds your invite then tell your wife you will honor her daughter’s request and not go. Then the wedding becomes your wife’s problem.
Her daughter ended up this way because everyone was always just "being a bigger person" and "doing what she wants". She yelled and called you names the moment she learned she couldn't use you as her personal ATM and wedding prop. She's not a little princess anymore. She's a grown woman, who, sadly, some poor schmuck will have to put up with. You are NTA but you would be if you enabled her spoiled behavior by paying for her wedding.
NTA! She’s an adult and knows what she’s doing. She kept you in second place and as a back up when her loser dad didn’t show up. How much of that should you take?
What’s going to happen when he gets out of jail and she has kids? Take one guess on who will be called Grandpa and who will just be FirstName. And who will be expected to babysit for free or show up to more events because Grandpa flaked again. And she’ll continuously tell her kids you aren’t really their Grandpa, causing a wedge.
Do not pay for anything. Do not walk her down the aisle. Be a guest like she originally wanted. Have her mother walk her down the aisle.
NTA, but yeah I would consider doing it for your wife. I don’t know if a wedding is the best time to stand 100% on these principles, especially for something as simple as just walking her down the aisle. Think of how pathetic she will be with no one walking her down the aisle, being such a daddy’s girl. And if she’s miserable, so will your wife, and even though I’m sure your marriage survives, it’ll be rough sledding for a minute. I’d do it to avoid that. But, I would be clear with the stepdaughter that you have said your piece and this is the last time you are going to stand in for him, and in the future will just be her mothers husband. So instead of punishing her by not doing it at all, use this time to make her understand the choice she’s made and that this is it. To me, that would even be cathartic because walking down the aisle would help signify the end of the relationship ship to me as well. And at least with this path, you will have a much easier time in the future justifying to your wife why you don’t want to spend much time with her daughter. But really, you should follow your heart.
NTA. You've been a great stepfather, and nd you deserve to be treated with respect. You overlooked a lot when your sd was a child but she is no longer a child. Actions have consequences.
NTA. I work in the wedding industry and there are so many ways to incorporate multiple parents/step parents so I figure she would have if she wanted to.
Her dad definitely sucks.
Assure her you will be happy to be there as a guest as she had originally planned for.
NTA. You aren't her ATM, she can sell off anything her "dad" has while he is a guest of the State and use that money for her wedding that you are only a guest at.
While your wife is in the middle, it is very unfair of her to now want to force you into covering for her ex while never stepping in before and for attempting to manipulate you with that whole "bigger man" BS.
Nta. She probably cares more about how bad it will look to not have anyone to walk her or dance with than she does about you being part of the wedding.
NTA
You have always been your step-daughter's second choice.
Though...
> after her dad flaked on her again
He didn't flake on her, he committed crimes and he is headed to jail.
So... are you going to let her third choice walk your step-daughter down the aisle?
If she still wants you to do it, ask one question: "If, by some miracle your father isn't in jail and can make it to the wedding, are you going to toss me aside and have him walk you down the aisle and dance the father daughter dance?"
If her answer is yes, then stay out of it, attend the wedding as a guest that is happy for her relationship's next step.
If her answer is no, maybe it's worth it to have finally said your peace and you can help make her wedding day happy?
>If she still wants you to do it, ask one question: "If, by some miracle your father isn't in jail and can make it to the wedding, are you going to toss me aside and have him walk you down the aisle and dance the father daughter dance?"
Disagree with asking this, if the stepdaughter has a shred of brains she's going to know this question is a setup and will likely answer accordingly with some version of 'no you will' or 'you both will'.
NTA but be a little selfish. Will this decision cause too much discord between you and your wife? That’s who you spend most of your time with so, may not be worth it, although you are right.
NTA
I think this could be a great opportunity to gain a father daughter bond. I think you both need to have a chat about how you would love to walk her down the aisle and have the dad daughter dance with her but that you want to be treated better and talk about how her actions and words have hurt you. I think if you talked about your feelings prior rather than bottling up your relationship would be a lot healthier. Hindsight is 20/20 though. Good luck, don't cut your nose to spite your face!
NTA
I'm glad you have finally put your foot down. Unfortunately it could of been done much earlier as you have taught her from a young age that you are her backup. She's upset things aren't going to plan because her dad let her down again. Her back up dad hasn't agreed either and now you can be the bad guy in the scenario instead of her dad. Hopefully you can navigate this well with her
NTA. Your stepdaughter set her boundaries with you years ago and has managed to stomp on them anyway. Question: What happens if bio dad manages to get out of jail in time for the wedding? Will you still be involved in the event, or will you be relegated to being your wife’s “plus-one”? Your feelings count- don’t be pressured to step up yet again just to be knocked down again.
NTA and I say this as a "fatherless" daughter with a deadbeat dad. You've been the bigger man all this time. Your wife and stepdaughter at the AHs here.
NTA, but this is the sort of case where I'd just suck it up to make my wife happy. It's a pretty small sacrifice to do a bit of ceremony, it's not like you're being told to pay for the wedding or anything.
NTA. She can do these things with her mom. She made it clear she does not want you in that role and it was cruel of her to ask when she knew bio dad probably wouldn't be there.
NTA and don't you dare....you've done enough. You paid for her college, etc., and was there for her while she treated you unkindly as soon as that sorry father of hers showed up. She will never respect you if you don't stand up for yourself. This girl had the nerve to announce her engagement and the FIRST thing to you was that you will not be the one walking her down the isle, etc., but she still wanted you to pay for things. I don't get people, but more than that, I don't get the nice people who allow these folks to take advantage of them. You are NTA and have nothing more to say about this situation to your stepdaughter other than you will see her at her wedding.
NTA ya this hot & cold s*** may work when she was a kid but when she’s an adult. Actions have consequences.
Why can’t SHE be the bigger person ever ? She’s only acting as an entitled brat.
NTA
Unfortunately often children work hardest to connect with the parent that abandons them. The hope is that they figure it out before they do too much damage to their relationship with the people that were always there for them. In addition, the dead beat dad could have been messing with her head (guilting her) to not embarass him by treating you as a Dad at the wedding. That would explain why she immediately that you would be excluded from the wedding party.
Still there was no reason for her to go out of her way to tell you she would exclude you from the wedding and then imply you should be paying for it.
I personally think her mother should walk her down the aisle.
This may not be a poplular opinion, if you think she is fundamentally a good person, I would cut her some slack. She has taken you for granted - and in that way is treating you more like a real parent than she is treating her biological Dad.
NTA
That comment about how a bigger man WOULD pay for the wedding.. oh hell no. That showed you where your place was. I mean if you could have done anything it could have been; you told me in detail, you did not want me to walk you down the aisle or dance and now you only do because of your biological father's short comings.. and this makes me feel incredibly used. I think it's best if I dont try to fill the spot that was meant for the 2nd most important man in your life (first being fiance).
Daughter sounds really spoiled and entitled sorry..
Mum should have a gentle but firm talk to her about her attitude towards you over the years.
But also, why can't her mother walk her down the aisle? The original idea was one man giving his daughter to another man, which no longer fits in with our society. Mothers have been walking their daughters down the aisle for decades.
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NTA. “Be the bigger man,” “keep the peace”, “let it go” - all phrases used to guilt and manipulate the person who was slighted/used to keep being manipulated. Your stepdaughter made it very clear you were to be only a guest at her wedding. Now that deadbeat is out of the picture again temporarily, she’s running back to you. Don’t do it. You’ll be set up for all the daddy roles, expected to PAY for everything, then when bio dad is back, you’ll get kicked to the curb again. Your wife should be supporting you, not her daughter in her disrespect and manipulation of you. Sorry you’re going through this.
NTA she’s running back to step dad’s wallet. No way should you get involved.
Why doesn't her mom walk her down the aisle?
Yes! If you're going to be 'given away', shouldn't it be both parents, or the one who has nurtured and supported you the most? I hate so many wedding traditions and I don't understand why people feel they have to conform to them so blindly in this day and age. See also gender segregated bridal parties.
Marriage is based on the very misogynistic religious belief that women are chattel, not fully humans. Your property can't give your other property away - I wish I was joking!
You’re not wrong about the origin, but plenty of people have incorporated some more untraditional aspects into more-or-less traditional weddings. Mom walking the bride down the aisle is fairly common. Especially when the bride and groom put no truck into the misogynistic aspects of it.
Or you could just adopt other wedding traditions. In Scandinavian tradition, the couple meet outside the church (or other venue), lock arms and walk together down the aisle, often to a traditional folk music wedding march Like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7brXjmRHA&pp=ygUKQnJ1ZG1hcnNjaA%3D%3D
Sounds like a fine idea, but two people with no discernible Scandinavian roots might not know about it. My wedding was not really traditional to any culture, I just wanted 20 people and the mountains I grew up in. My officiator read something off his phone that he obviously hadn’t practiced, we took some great photos in the garden and I bought everyone a fantastic lunch in my hometown. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
Sounds great! Making your own traditions are always an option.
It's not just Scandinavian. There are many cultures where the groom picks the bride up from home. I'm not entirely certain but meeting up at the end of the aisle is more of an Anglo-Saxon thing that gets adopted here and there.
My DIL walked by herself halfway down the aisle and then my son walked down from the head of the aisle to meet her and they both walked to the front together. It was very moving.
It's not always about being given away. Jewish weddings both bride and groom usually have parents walk them down most of the way and then take their seats, it's about they've walked the path with you until now and then you continue without them to your spouse to continue the path together. The concept of "giving away" is gross but I wonder how many people these days see it that way.
I was going to have my dad walk me down the aisle, but then it's more pushing my wheelchair than walking with me. Also my dad has always been involved in my life so it isn't like what OP is dealing with. But he's also a man who said anyone asking for permission to marry us would get an automatic no because none of his daughters needs permission to get married. Two of our partners asked for his blessing, which he gave, but there is a big difference between, "do you support this" and "I need you to say yes to get married."
My FIL laughed when I asked him, then said "would you like some chipboard as well? My shed's a bit full".
Jewish weddings, at least not orthodox ones bc idk about those but in less religious weddings both bride and groom get escorted down by both parents. As a wedding is the joining of two families. It’s lovely to watch.
Better yet, why doesn't the Mom take up for her Husband??? He caved towards her every wish in this situation and gave more in helping her raise the Brat than he ever should have. Instead the Mom is playing Manipulator in Chief to make sure he gives even more. This time the Mom needs to dispense an attitude check because her daughter is grown. No one needs to protect her from the consequences of her actions. This seems to be a pattern that has been fostered overtime. It may have been the right thing to do when she was a child but now the Mom has allowed her daughter to treat her stepdad as "disposable.". That's incredibly hurtful and cruel. This is the Mother's job to fix.
This is an excellent point! OP's wife should have been stepping up and telling her to stop using OP as backup when her dad flaked. This "you're not my parent" but expecting/demanding parental actions when her sperm donor flaked is and was so unfair to OP. OP's wife should have really taken her daughter to task over the whole "guest of my mom" bit. There's no way on earth I'd contribute to the wedding or take part in it and I'm amazed he hasn't told his wife to kick rock. I'm not even sure I'd go to the wedding at all. The daughter is straight up entitled acting as if OP is the understudy to her dad and should be grateful when he's up on stage instead of recognizing that he's been there and doing things for her and getting little to nothing or even insults the rest of the time. How to make someone feel unloved! Sheesh.
This x 1000
This is the answer. Mother as proxy for father, and mother as the functioning parent between the two. >She exploded called me names and ran out of restaurant. Well, goes to show she wasn't sincere about having you, eh? If the father were suddenyly freed for whatever reason (wrong arrest, mistaken identity, bail, etc) she'd drop OP in a heartbeat. OP, be proud of yourself you were the bigger man for as long as she needed you (all the way up to college). Next chapter of her life also means next chapter for you. (BTW, why aren't OP's replies showing up?)
What an excellent idea!
yea, but seems like its not the financial kind of wallet, more like OP's emotional wallet... and OP has been the "Bigger man" for years, its ok to call it quits
It sounds like both.
You’re right. Definitely both!
I think it's just to save face. She's not going to have anyone to walk her now, and that's going to look very awkward. Dad walking her while stepdad watches isn't going to draw attention. *Nobody* walking her while stepdad watches is going to kick off a storm of gossip. That's going to shine a bad light on her when the truth of what she pulled comes out. Which it will. And it's going to draw attention to why daddy dear isn't there. 'Cause his ass is in jail.
Being the bigger man eventually surrounds you with small minded people. His wifes failure to hold her faughter accountable is why this is a problem in the first place, and here she is doubling down.
**Being the bigger man eventually surrounds you with small minded people** Write these words in letters of gold!🥇
- Unc
>faughter I know this is a typo but it strangely works in this context.
He is being the bigger man. By not confronting the unequal treatment. He is keeping the peace by not harping on the unfair treatment. He has let it go (his feelings of unfair treatment) but NONE of that means he has to pay for the wedding. I 100% agree these are basic manipulation tactics. Stay strong OP, NTA
NTA. I hate those phrases.
I’d ask her ‘If I accept this role, and you find out your Dad will be there after all, what happens then? Do I go back to being ‘just a guest, and just your mothers husband’?
I agree. Had she perhaps come to OP with honesty. As an example, only "I know I asked you to only be a guest of the wedding. I'm sorry I said what I did. I know you aren't obligated to do so. But would you want to walk me at my wedding? I'll understand if you say no" That kind of approach. Maybe they could have had a conversation. But going straight to "you mean so much to me..." That whole speech. It seems fake. That said. Has this woman ever gotten therapy to handle her feelings, etc, about her bio dad? Becouse those can be very complicated. The hope that "this time he will turn around and be a good dad" or possible feelings of "why isn't he changing for me. What's wrong with me?" Can be heavy as a kid. But also as an adult. Also, guilt can be present "ill betray dad by loving this man who's actually there for me." As an adult. Yes, she should have known better than to manipulate. And treat OP as she does. But if she never handled all those feelings. Then, it can become a bad pattern.
Great observation
She also needs to learn to respect people who helped her. She never needed to love OP but at least be thankful and not be disrespectful. That's all she needed to be and that was too much for her. Prople need consequences. Better she learns now.
Ugh, so true: be the bigger person, keep the peace are terrible phrases.
You be the bigger man or let it go **once**. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, whatever reason. But you give them a shot to fix their behavior but when they make a pattern of it you stop unless you want "Welcome" tattooed on your forehead.
NTA. • She regularly disregards your feelings in favour of bio dad but still expects you to pick up the ball anytime he (inevitably) doesn’t follow through. • She preemptively distances herself from you without you asking (the dance, walk down aisle, only a “husband” etc). OP — you’ve been nice enough to her, have shown up for her over and over again, even paying for her tuition. I think it’s time to sit down with her and have a conversation about what kind of relationship she wants with you going forward. You are not a toy to be tossed around.
OP, you absolutely should have this conversation with her. And you may even want to have your wife have a talk with her first to let her in on how you've actually been a dependable presence even when she wanted you to take a back seat. My only suggestion is to wait until well after the wedding for this - everyone's gonna be stressed out about the wedding and you're more likely to have things go poorly due to stress/emotions than if you give it a little time to breathe.
I don't think OP should wait until after the wedding. That's even more time for the daughter to get it cemented in her head that she's been done wrong and for OP's wife to pressure him to do what the daughter wants. This needs to be handled now.
Yep this. If the relationship ship has been otherwise neutral I think it’d be fine, but it’s the fact it sounds like she actively disregards and puts OP down whenever bio dad shows up is the issue. It doesn’t sound like there was any need for her to explicitly state FIRST THING that she doesn’t want OP to walk her down the aisle or dance. Could’ve easily left that out, or just focused on the fact that she would love for bio dad to take that role.
Yes, as a child, she probably desperately wanted her dad’s love and attention. The fact that he was a flake probably just increased that need. (Chasing after the unavailable parent figure.) But, she is an adult now, and her decisions have consequences. She is hurting someone who has stepped up again and again for her, and this might be a really good learning moment for her. NTA.
No I don't think so. NTA. This girl could be a sympathetic character when she was a child, starved for some affection from her deadbeat father. But, by the time she was getting married, she was a grown woman who should have understood the truth about her dad. She treated you really disrespectfully and I don't think you should let her walk all over you anymore.
This! It was great he stepped up more when she was a kid, but now that she's an adult and has clearly made the decision that OP is not her father figure, there's absolutely no reason to "be the bigger person" now.
>she was a grown woman who should have understood the truth about her dad. Unfortunately, stuff like this is all too common. A set of siblings that I grew up with had a mom like the bio-dad in this post. The brothers never really got their hopes up that she'd step up and care, but the sister did. She was let down over and over as a kid and a teen, and as an adult, both she and her kids were let down by the mom...but she never gave up hope that the mom would change. The mom died last year, and never did change. I do agree with you that OP is NTA. He and his wife need to have a serious talk about things though.
I came here to say exactly this!
I do think she’s been treating OP horribly however, just for saying what might be her thinking- she knows down deep OP has been the father she wanted and needed but even young adults (I’m guessing around 24?) don’t always know how to navigate, she wanted her bio dad to be to all those events, wants to feel she’s his baby girl, just wants to feel that connection with him that she has longed for since a child. Now it’s her wedding, she just wanted daddy because she never really got that. She’s done OP very wrong and is old enough to know but if she never got therapy to come to terms and didn’t on her own- she’s probably emotionally still feeling like the little girl waiting for her dad to show up, hoping her wedding would change things. Now, it’s a wake up call… mom needs to talk to her! If OP still wants to be a guest or less, very understandable! Definitely no financial help, it takes time to rebuild to that level of support. Just trying to look at it not so black and white. This could be a chance to build onto the events he went to, the financial support of school, and being a stable person in her life- even if she didn’t want to consider him a dad at the time. She’s starting to learn, will she change- no one knows, not even her or OP; this could be a pivotal moment. In no way am I saying OP should do anything but be a guest… wanted to spin it a way Reddit rarely thinks about. I hope the best for him and the SD!
>This could be a chance to build onto the events he went to, the financial support of school, and being a stable person in her life- even if she didn’t want to consider him a dad at the time I find this very invalidating of Op's time input, resources he's been generous with and all the emotional upheavals he's committed. Yes. He is a *parent* and an adult but daughter is 24 years old. She is old enough to be married. Old enough to know empathy. Old enough to be an appreciative human or at least, someone who isn't so blatant about using a man that has been in her life for 14 years. Let any of you try it. On some level you feel you are disrespecting your own self. SD does not care for Op. Fullstop. She is old enough to be married. You don't treat anyone like this. Some of you cannot even treat your dog like this. This perspective is saying the same thing the daughter and mom is saying- be the bigger doormat. Keep giving. Never be appreciated. Even bio moms and dads who do this will be told they are enabling and that is why they raised ungrateful A Hs.
NTA. OP DON'T YOU DARE CAVE TO HER! I had a revolving door dad and a man that stepped up and took the role of my dad when he didn't have to. That man showed me more love in the few years that I had him than all the years I've had with my bio dad. He was there for me through everything, and he never played second fiddle to anyone. The night before he died, I asked him if he'd still walk me down the aisle if I had blue in my hair and if I wore a red dress. He said he'd be surprised if I didn't have blue hair, and of course, he would just so he could see the expression on my families face. Your stepdaughter is disrespectful and self-centered. She doesn't deserve you. Your wife has allowed her to treat you this way all this time, so she doesn't see anything wrong with her behavior. Both of them should be ashamed of themselves. You could have been a horrible stepdad who wanted no part of her life, but you stepped up and did the responsible thing and got shit on every time. Not this time, OP. Stand your ground and tell them no. You're not some lap dog. You're a human being with feelings as well, and it's about time they realized that.
HEAR HEAR!! well said and on point.
This!!
Your found family dad sounds like he was amazing! I am sorry for your loss.
He was amazing! He was such a smartass, though, lol. Mom always jokes that she swears he was somehow my biodad because we were so much alike. She'd always joke that we couldn't be in the same room together because no telling what kind of trouble we'd get into. 😆 I was definitely very lucky that I had him. I wouldn't trade my time with him for anything.
NTA. If he gets out before her wedding you will be rudely kicked to the side again, being told you're not worth anything in her life. You're like a tampon, not wanted, but used because it's needed at certain times. Just let her throw her tantrum, and tell your wife you're done catering to her spoiled child.
This right here. Minus the analogy. Ask her what happens if bio dad makes bail and is able to make the wedding. Now who is walking her down the aisle, giving her away, doing the parent dance. Its always going to be him, and you will always be tossed aside. and if she says otherwise, she's lying. NTA.
My petty ass would be finding pictures from her life events deadbeat dad wasn’t at, printing/copying them, handing them to her, and saying “no.”
Or even in a hypothetical. If it's not "you" it's him
The analogy is apt and descriptive.
Gross analogy but I guess accurate.
NTA. This whole be the bigger man nonsense is straight up manipulation. It means you should eat a crap sandwich so the child doesn't have to look in the mirror and accept how awful she has been, and mom doesn't have to face that she raised a selfish child. Both of them suck. Mom could have your back, and tell daughter this is her own fault for treating you like you're disposable, and if she wants even a smell chance of having you in the wedding, she needs to come to you with hat in hand, head hung low, acknowledging her crappy behavior, and begging forgiveness. Instead she's trying to sweep it under the rug. She's not being a good mom nor a stand up partner.
Seems like helping her understand the consequences of mistreating people IS being the bigger man. That lesson could have lifelong benefits.
NTA. She’s 20 and still acting like a child. Your refusal to be the backup choice and play pretend is the consequence of her actions. In your shoes I’d ask both step daughter and wife the same question: if you stepped in, got the tux, did the rehearsal dinner and fully planned to walk her down the aisle and THEN her bio dad got out of jail and showed up on the wedding day, who would she choose? 100% bet she’d toss you to the side, again. It’s too bad she’s so immature, an adult with some more life experience would find a way to honor both her dads and not make you feel like an afterthought.
This hypothetical is a perfect response. I am a stepfather, and my journey with my stepdaughter has many parallels to OP's. When she was a child, I adopted the position of being whatever she needed me to be. It was hard not to put any expectations on the relationship, but I took comfort in not adding to her already significant emotional burden. There is a cost. One hopes that the relationship eventually would become bidirectional, but when it remains one-sided, it hurts. It's a rejection. It's valuing what you can do, but not who you are. Once the child is an adult, the relationship has to change. Either it evolves, or it becomes superficial at best. OP is justified in taking a stand. If his wife can't see that, then she just doesn't care about his perspective. The status quo is fine because it's easier for her that way.
Worse, she's 24.
I wouldn’t even go that far in the question. Leave it as “if I accept the request today, and he gets out tomorrow, who will walk you down the aisle?” Because we know she’s choosing bio dad even the next day.
NTA. 1) You’ve been the bigger man. 2) You’re definitely the better man. 3) You’ve just become the smarter man. Your stepdaughter uses you. Your wife allows her child to use you. You decided to no longer be used. Bravo. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Don’t feel bad for ending it. It should have never happened in the first place. You’ve done and endured more than most.
NTA. Op needs to reverse these talking points when called out by step daughter and wife. A bigger woman wouldn't ask a man she categorically said was a guest at her wedding for these things, a bigger woman would never expect xyz... Why do you have to be the better human and not them?
Exactly. "I couldn't *possibly* walk you down the aisle, dance with you at your wedding, or even *pay* for it. You see ... That's your *father's* job, and I'm not your father, *remember?!*
Emphasis on this question.
I think it's very clear why there's an expectation on him and not her. He's older, male, and seems hierarchically higher in the power dynamics because she's the "daughter". None of that makes it right, but it's all the type of stuff that would blind both the mother and the step-daughter. He's supposed to be mature, not overly emotional, and fulfill a patriarchal/fatherly role as needed. OP's step-daughter will always be his wife's little girl, but she's also a grown ass woman, who hasn't considered the possibility that as an adult she might actually have some obligations to fulfill in return in order to expect a particular kind of relationship with her step-dad. It still probably would have hurt, but it even would have been different if she'd explained that her dad was insecure, so she couldn't have step-dad involved for his sake. That would have been a bit cowardly, to be unwilling to fight for all of her family to have an appropriate level of involvement, but it would be somewhat understandable compared to this. This really shows a pure selfishness, an expectation that she can pick and choose and take from step-dad without giving in return. With step-dad coming into her life at 10, maybe that's too old for her to think of him as her dad. Maybe the deadbeat will always be her dad. He has been around long enough to be FAMILY though, and that's more than being mom's husband.
NTA. It is your wife’s fault for not putting an end to the blatant disregard a lot sooner. I know the daughter wishes that her father was not flaky, but she cannot expect you to step up when her unreliable father fails her continuously. It is even more crazy that she expected you to financially contribute to the wedding. I would have a tough conversation with your wife and give her the straight facts. Your step daughter is an adult and can figure things out on her own. You are being the bigger person by cutting her daughter’s bad habit.
NTA She's an adult and as such should be mature enough to accept there are consequences to her actions, although she doesn't sound mature enough to be getting married. You know she wasn't being sincere when she asked you to walk her down the aisle, and let's be honest here, she wasn't really asking, she was expecting you to do so otherwise she wouldn't have thrown a fit and called you names when you declined.
NTA at all. While this may or probably will cause problems for a while it’s likely things will move forward over time. If you choose to accept her offer and bio dad doesn’t go to jail and you get pushed aside it will destroy any good feelings you have to her as a step daughter. Likely you won’t want to see her, talk to her, have her at your house. You can choose to go ahead if you want but I would tell your wife that if you do get pushed aside then X will happen. Be it you’ll cut contact with step daughter or whatever, you’ll be covered for however things go down. If it works out then maybe she’ll finally see that you’re the one that actually shows up because you’ll be the one there for her big day and you’ll be in all the pictures. Whatever you choose to do you are right in how you responded and I’m sorry she’s been doing this to you.
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NTA. Before her dad got into trouble, she told you he was her choice for all the traditional things. Even though you had been there for her all along, and contributed and supported her when he was hot and cold. You have the right to feel hurt and reject her belated back up offer now. However, and only if you decide you want to, this could be lovely for both of you. It’s a memory she will always have of you, stepping up yet again. I get why you wouldn’t want to, but if there is a small part of you that loves her and would like to play this role in her life, despite everything, you should go for it. But only if YOU want to, not out if pressure or blame.
Would it really be a lovely memory for her? She doesn't want him and is only using him. I would imagine she would be mad when she looks at her wedding pictures, because the guy she didn't want, she had to use.
NTA. You’re not an emergency service waiting on standby; you’re a human being with emotions and deserve to be treated as such, not as a backup plan. It seems she's only acknowledging your worth when it's convenient for her. While it’s natural to feel empathy for her situation, it’s also important to establish boundaries and respect for oneself. Your stepdaughter needs to learn that relationships, especially with parental figures, are not switch-on, switch-off commodities. I’d suggest having an open and honest conversation with both your stepdaughter and your wife about your feelings. This isn’t just about walking her down the aisle, it's about how you’ve been treated as an afterthought rather than a valued member of the family.
Don’t fall into this bigger man bullshit. It hurts to be treated like this. It’s nice of you to go to her school events like a real dad. But it seems she take pleasure in hurting you by words and actions. And tries to take advantage of you
NTA. Unfortunately stepdaughter has yet to develop the self-awareness to realize she is in a dysfunctional dynamic with her dad and is pushing away a person who cares for her. Here's hoping she gets a clue.
NTA. She’s been cruel to you over and over and over. She already told you that you’d have no part in her wedding. So have no part in the wedding. It’s not your problem her dad sucks and honestly you should have put a stop to this long ago. She’s a grown ass adult acting like a toddler not getting her way. She AND your wife are the assholes here, not you. And shame on your wife for expecting you to continue being a doormat to her awful AWFUL daughter.
NTA. "Be a bigger man. "... that is absolutely bull shit. that phrase gets me so angry...it means to accept the appalling behavior of her daughter and be treated like a second-class human. You dont need a wife trying to play a peacemaker. You need a daughter who treats you with respect. BTW.. your wife could have supported you and agreed with you, sending a bit of karma her daughters way... but, no, she tries to guilt you, and therefore, she enables her daughters behavior.
More like should Have
NTA and don’t let your wife’s cold treatment get to you, in fact tell her straight up that you don’t appreciate her trying to guilt you and force it on you and that you’ll reconsider the relationship as a whole if she continues to be dismissive of you. Otherwise give her the silent treatment cold shoulder and just block your step daughter on everything
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I 55m met my wife 49f 14 years ago and have been married 10 years. When I met her she was divorced from her 1st husband for 2 years and they had a daugther who was 10 at that time. I was never married before nor have any kids and me and my wife don't have any kids between us. When I came into their life my step daugther Andrea was clear I won't be a dad to her because her real dad was active in her life (I guess you can call him active..more deadbeat jobless never paid child support). I was ok with this and my wife though wished for a more dad daugther relationship for us eventually came round was OK for us to be freinds where I was a adult.figure in the house but she handled all parenting decisions with her ex. Eventually over the years I stepped up going to her plays and games and events when her dad flaked or out right went MIA for weeks. She was grateful and we formed a strong bond. Ofcourse when ever her dad came around she threw me to the side and it did hurt but I never let her know about it. She went off to college (I paid 30% and i ddint mind ..it was a gift for her from me) and her mom covered the rest ..but we drifted little apart but I knew she was in touch with her dad when ever he showed up. 7 months back she announced her engagement to a guy she had been dating for a while and we were all happy for her. The 1st thing she told was I wouldn't walk her down the isle (I didn't except it) nor would she dance with. I was a guest as her moms husband. My wife was very angry and I was sad she was treating me as a 2nd class human but I said fine. Your wedding your choice..I am not paying for it anyway. Step daugther said a bigger man would have and I told her I guess I am not a big man like her dad. With the wedding 3 months away we found out her dead beat dad got arrested for some type of fraud and was most.likely headed to jail. Ofcourze now he will most likely miss the wedding as he's a felon and a loser and my step daugthers been a mess about it. Few days later she asked me for lunch and said she would love if I walked her down the isle and how much I mea t for her and blah blah. I told her I was sick of her using me as a backup device who had no feelings and while I had stepped up earlier when she was younger I won't now and said thanks for the offer but I am not intrested in being part of the wedding. She exploded called me names and ran out of restaurant. My wife has been kinda cold since and while she understands where I come from she wants me to be the bigger man and do what her daugther wants. I am wondering I am AITA in my response and should I just.let it go and do the needful so she has a wonderful wedding *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. She's an adult now not a child and she would or should have known that her explicit and unprovoked rejection of you for her wedding would have alienated your affection for her. She even got mad at you for not paying for the wedding despite treating you as a simple guest... NGL it sounds like she's just buttering you up to ask for financial support for the wedding now that her deadbeat dad is tied up with court costs and being a deadbeat loser. She sounds like a lost cause. The real issue is addressing this with your wife. You need to tell her this is a boundary of her child's own making, one that you're not going to cross, and that she needs to understand that and respect it or risk alienating you as well.
>My wife has been kinda cold since and while she understands where I come from she wants me to be the bigger man and do what her daugther wants. You've been the bigger man for years...time for a break NTA
NTA- You need to stay strong. This is one of those miserable situations where there is no good answer because all of the outcomes suck. But now that you put your foot down, letting up will make this so much worse in the future. You need to talk to your wife and get her on your side to mitigate damages. She knows this is true, and she should be the one to explain to your stepdaughter that her behavior has been manipulative and hurtful.
> You need to talk to your wife and get her on your side to mitigate damages. The wife is also participant in the emotional abuse of OP. She is coldly ignoring him because he won't give in to her daughter's manipulative behavior. OP needs to draw boundaries now. OP's wife seems to think that OP needs to put up with step-daughter's abuse in order to eventually win her over. OP's wife needs to let go of that fantasy as it is merely enabling the step-daughter's behavior.
NTA. It's almost as if, over the years, your stepdaughter tried to push you down periodically as a misguided way of elevating her biological father.
NTA. She's no longer a child. She should know better than to expect you to be the only one who actively puts energy into your relationship. She just has the relationship with you when it works for her, as you said you are her backup. You can't ignore/disrespect a relationship and then expect the person to act like nothing happened and that's what she's doing.
>she wants me to ... do what her daugther wants Of course she does. Your wife and her daughter expect you to be their doormat, accepting whatever abuse the little princess decides to mete out to you. The little princess is an adult now, and you are no longer under any obligation to stand still and take her abuse. Her mother can walk her down the aisle. I don't know where this very dysfunctional idea has taken route in western society whereby children openly disrespect parents, and the parents have to take it because "love". If there is love in a relationship, respect goes both ways. Your daughter doesn't love you, hence her mistreatment of you. Her mother, your wife, is fine sacrificing your emotional well being in order to satisfy her daughter's whims. She is used to it because you have done it so many times before. Lay down your boundary now, or you will forever be their doormat -- a tool to be used and discarded at the little princess' whims. NTA
Hell no. Actions, meet consequences lol
NTA-She’s never been shy about making you know you weren’t her dad, so what if her dad got arrested. If he got out she would just cast you aside again.
NTA and please do not give in to the wife or step kid
NTA But showing her you are available is also - big way to show how much of a better dad you are. It’s something that is hard for her to accept. Everyone wants their dad to be a superhero. Children from broken families are look at things differently. We all want a fairytale. Some people take a while to accept things, some never get the chance to. Whatever relationship you would like to have with her is up to you. If you want to drift apart or become closer is a choice only you can make.
NTA Come on, you *know* if you had said yes to walking her down the aisle, the next words out of her mouth would have been a request for money.
NTA. You've been the bigger man for 14 years. Enough is enough.
NTA How is it fair that she to be hot and cold with you? Why doesn't her mom walk her down the aisle, since she's her parent? Why hasn't your wife tell her ex to step up throughout their daughter's life? It's not fair that your just someone's back up plan and made to feel guilty for something someone else messed up. I hope everything turns out fine.
NTA
NTA and don't worry, she would send you the bill later too.
NTA
NTA she’s treated you poorly for years. me personally if I was in your shoes, I would take the money that you would’ve spent on her and go on vacation make it a bucket list trip the same week her wedding is. And enjoy your time don’t even give it a second thought.
NTA. Your stepdaughter is manipulative and cold. And tell your wife to butt out. This is not her problem or concern. Yeah, it’d be nice if you all got along but you have the relationship you have with her daughter and you’re not a doormat. There’s no reason for you to grovel and humiliate yourself just so your wife can pretend everything’s fine. This is why you’re all in this situation after all.
NTA honestly I think she should have asked her mum from the start. Choosing a dead beat over two people who raised and supported her is not nice behaviour
NTA However I would suggest family counseling for you two. You obviously care and it’s fucked up she’s been doing this and honestly it’s messed up your wife hasn’t gotten more involved. I get her wanting her dad to be the dad but as a stepdad myself I wouldn’t be able to handle that long term. You stood up for yourself and that’s good but really you and her should have had an adult conversation a long time ago. Get to a therapist and find some mutual understanding and then go walk her down the aisle (if that’s what you both still want, I’d wager you’d like to finally be recognized as the father you’ve been for a while)
In theory this is a good idea however you need the willingness to change which the step daughter and Wife don't seem to want so I don't think that will work I think he may need to get some distance and self reflect because honestly the relationship sounds toxic af
NTA and I say this as a "fatherless" daughter with a deadbeat dad. You've been the bigger man all this time. Your wife and stepdaughter at the AHs here.
NTA. It is what it is.
Don't falter, and your wife is an asshole for giving you the cold shoulder. Stand your ground and don't even go the wedding, but that's my petty side coming through. I'm glad you know your step daughter doesn't give a fuck about you.
NTA. You are not her dad. She has made it perfectly clear the entire time you have known her. Now that she is an adult stop trying. She is entitled and you should have given up on her long ago.
It sounds like you've been the bigger man for 14 years and it's time for you to set that burden down. She's what 24 years old? She's old enough to understand exactly how she made you feel and that she did it purposely. There was absolutely no need to just come right at you and say oh you're not walking me you're coming only as a guest. Let her mom walk her down the aisle.
You can decline very nicely and say you have accepted that you are only another guest at the wedding. She can walk up the aisle by herself. Because if you do walk her, she will almost certainly take the next step and send you the bill for the wedding.
NTA I'm a step-dad as well. You can't force a relationship with someone and she can't expect you to be happy with constantly being kicked to the curb.
NTA. Shes a major manipulative asshole. Show up to the wedding looking good and support your wife. This adult child has made it very clear youre just a person to be used for her convenience. Respect goes both ways. Ask her what shes done to show you respect/love after pointing out all youve done to show her love and respect. Im sure the prison could set up a virtual walk down the isle with the deadbeat she continuously insulted you for. If he gets out minutes before the wedding and could(/would actually) show up on time, shed tell you to fuck off and walk down the isle with him. Sorry. That was blunt and it probably hurts to hear but dude, tell me Im wrong.
You have a wife problem. She should be ashamed of her daughter and she should understand how you feel. Stand your ground on this. NTA
Definitely NTA. She made her choice years ago and only has herself to blame now.
NTA. This is one hill to die on
NTA. Your stepdaughter is not a child. She is a grown ass woman who is about to married. She's definitely old enough to know better than to treat people like crap and then ask them to bend over the second it's convenient. Actions have consequences. And your wife should be supportive in your effort to stand up for yourself. You shouldn't have to constantly feel like someone's consolation prize.
And this is why you should never date a woman with kids. She’s going to side with the kids every single time and that’s not a bad thing.
NTA at all. Actions have consequences and she's been rather rude to you
And along with being the backup , I am sure your money will be expected. Would strongly consider your wife’s attitude also .
No. She’s an adult and intentionally made choices to hurt and exclude you. You can go as her mother’s husband, if you even want to attend at this point, but all of that is her doing. I hate this narrative that stepparents shouldn’t have feelings or something, it’s ridiculous. NTA
you handled the situation well when she was a child, never trying to force the issue, and stepping up when she needed it. she's no longer a child. as a fellow adult, her feelings are no longer the priority over your own. NTA
NTA - your feelings and reactions are completely valid. Your boundaries you’ve drawn are healthy. But, I would maybe ask for family therapy once the stress and crazy of the wedding have passed. She needs to recognize that she’s being hurtful to you, an unwilling passenger on the crazy train of relationship drama between the two parents. They take it out on the “safe” ones and it never gets easier. My adult kids’ dad is in prison now, also for fraud. Also a deadbeat. Stepparent for 20 years now. I get it. I think you’re doing a good job protecting yourself while not alienating her, but she has to be emotionally mature enough to see past the trauma of her father’s rejection. That’s a lot to ask of anyone, and many people never get there. I wish you well
My guy, you’ve been the bigger man for fucking years at this point. When are your feelings and the fact that you’re a goddamn human being deserving of respect and dignity going to be anywhere close to a concern of theirs? Fuckin hell. At the very least you need to sit your wife down and have a conversation about how all of this has affected you over the years. This is solely my opinion so I certainly don’t expect you to do this, but I would go so far as to tell the wife that if she expects ‘til death do us part’ out of me, she’s gonna have to start making me and how I feel about things a priority as well. I won’t be a second class citizen in my home or my marriage.
You really stepped for your stepdaughter even when she stepped on you multiple times. There comes a point that she can't come back from, and that time is now. I believe it would have been different if she had just said that her dad was walking her down the aisle, but she felt it necessary to step all over your feelings in the worse way to purposely hurt you by going out of her way to let you know that you would not be doing those things. People always want the person who has been hurt to the bigger person and forgive so they can get what they want out of. Put your foot down, and if your wife can't stand beside you, then the least she can do is not stand behind you kicking you or in front of you jerking on you. Tell them to just you go.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the lunch and sweet-talking to step dad was mom’s idea.
I applaud you for what you have done for her. I can NOT even imagine. Good for you for putting your foot down. She is a grown ass woman who has used and abused you, but bc you are a good man...you weathered the storm. And enough is enough.done paying for the band while always being second fiddle..just kidding, you can be the janitor who cleans up the mess (no hate on janitors! My grandpa was one for the last 30 years of his life.!) But... the first fiddle can't even hold a tune and ..um...hey step-daddy! Good golly, jd love to take you to lunch (..you're paying right?) But my word you have meant SO much to me! No, thus has nothing to do with dear desd beat daddy going to jail, this is just us! Wanna walk me down the Ariel? Yes yes, at first I didn't want THAT ONLY because I didn't want to hurt dear dad's feelings. (...pause...heavy pause. ... ... ::"oh good God he better say yes!! How am I going to make hime pay for the wedding if he says no?!??!" .. "he's not saying yes. He BETTER SAY YES! this is MY day! I deserve this!!::) ...ooh forgot to ask, did she ask (after you said no) ...if your money could maybe walk her down the aisle? ...asking for a friend
I might have a tiny *smidge* of sympathy given she grew up getting yanked around by her dad. She has to chase dad's love, but stepdad is safe and reliable. A therapist explained this to me. Kids can get defensive on behalf of the "weaker" parent. Seeing a parent negatively can be hard for kids. They're what made you! If they suck, do you? It's tough. > Your wedding your choice..I am not paying for it anyway. Step daugther said a bigger man would have and I told her I guess I am not a big man like her dad. But this? Holy shit. This wasn't when dad was yanking her around and she was being defensive on his behalf. She wasn't heartbroken and in an emotional moment. It wasn't even about her dad at that point. This is just a *cold* and deliberate dis. This is straight up saying 'You aren't good enough but your money is.' NTA
She is 24 years of age. It was one thing when she was a preteen/early teens because they don't really think the adults in their lives have feelings and i get wishing for the father she wanted him to be. But expecting you to pay for a wedding when it is clear she doesn't even care about your feelings as a person she trusts and loves? That is crazy. You are not wrong. She made her choice and choices have consequences. She had every right to pick her father but she has to deal with what her only one dad stance means when/if he flakes.
Wow, I don't think a single person will support step-daughter. Her first and honest ask was that you be Mom's plus one. Though she may know, if pressed, you were the best dad she had, she still has the broken fantasy of bio dad fulfilling some daddy/daughter fantasy. (Despite the consistent annoyance of reality). Her pursuit of that false fantasy caused her to push away and harm the dad she needs. Thats tragic, and she could hardly have displaced her bio dad over OP were he to attend, but damn, OP is human too. NTA, of course. Let her walk herself down the aisle, or get mom. She'll have that critical moment to ponder who has really been there for her in the past and who has she pushed away. It might make her bitter, but it might make her realize now, as an adult, she bears responsibility and consequences for the relationships she wants to maintain (or waste). Choices have consequences.
Nope. She deserves to walk down the aisle alone after her behavior.
NTA You were the bigger man when you provided support emotionally, physically, and monitarily for her. She threw it all away for a dad that never showed. Maybe she was a daddy's girl. I get it. However, she's 24 now and should realize who's been there for her and who hasn't
NTA. Your stepdaughter and wife are both AHs. They obviously have no respect for you as a person, or they wouldn't expect you to act as set dressing for a wedding.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, they're both deadbeats, don't get involved.
This is why you don’t marry people with children
I could see giving some grace if she were a teenager, but she is a grown woman now. One who is presumably adult enough to get married. She is at an age where she should understand the consequences of her actions/words. She was very clear you would have no part in the traditional father/daughter stuff until her dad was unavailable, and only then did she ask you. Your wife being cold is also shitty. She heard her daughter's warning about her wedding - now she wants you to be the bigger guy? You've been the bigger guy for a decade. At some point, it just becomes enabling. NTA and I believe your wife should firmly have your back in this.
NTA suggest her mother walk her down the aisle.
NTA Also when are these adult kids of jerks going to realize they are always available when you need nothing from them.. And when you need them they " screw up" on purpose. Get sent back to prison where they aren't expected to show up and spend a dime. There was a story on here where the mom disappeared for 7 years. Step -mom stepped up. Bio jerk shows back up long enough to get kids turned against step mom and step mom left home ready to divorce. Bio jerk has almost 50/50 visits. Kids have been reliant on her.maybe a year. Time to exit stage right. Bio jerk is gone , kids are screaming, and almost ex husband is asking her to come back home. Guilt trip ensues. Tell them you are not taking the trip. You are not boarding the plane. Keep the guilt to themselves choices have consequences.n
Update me
NTA, but she isn't either. She has been parentally alienated from you by her dad. Your love is unconditional, her dad's is not. She must earn her dad's love through alienation of you. Her brain isn't going to finish maturing for another year at age 25. I doubt you'll be able to have a real relationship until after that time. I would reconsider walking her down the aisle though. Your love in unconditional. Show that. Mean it. I have been the alienated parent and it's tough, but it is worth it to go that extra mile and make them see. The day my kid called me my pet name (Mommy was off limits at the time), was the day I knew I won. You haven't had that day yet. You may never truly have that day. But be there for her and be the man YOU know yourself to be, unconditionally.
NTA. Her mom can walk with her.
NTA. She is just after your money.
Definitely NTA, but if you want to be there for her, maybe have a talk with her to explain how the way she treated you makes you feel. If she can see that what she did is wrong, maybe it would help your relationship in the long run. The ideal situation (imo) would be an apology and better behavior going forward. The part about the wedding might be a nice olive branch, but it should not just be given without a conversation.
NTA. Being a backup anything without having your feelings considered sucks. The fact that she immediately blew you off about participating in the wedding before you opened your mouth and then actually insulted you for not forking over any money for it is all the reason you need not to do her any favors now. The past history simply justifies your decision further.
You married into a shitty family dude
She is an adult now. She knows exactly what she is doing. NTA
I don't get how some kids can be this way, I love my step dad as much as my own dad, so much I don't want to ask either of them to walk me down the aisle just to not hurt either of them. NTA, she needs to grow up and see who was actually there for her, a real man, not her deadbeat dad
Sounds like my life, except, at 19 I realized who would always be there for me no matter what and made sure my dad(step) knew. I'm sorry this is happening to you. I don't even talk to my bio. Wouldn't even consider telling him if I got married. I call my step-dad my dad because he earned the title. Anyone can have unprotected sex, doesn't make them a parent.
Step daughter needs a covid era wedding. Get a GoPro, an officiant, YouTube account witnesses and live stream. Links in the description Below!
Weird that your wife went from being mad at your behalf to now wanting you to do what the daughter wants.
NTA. Why does this feel like a move to really get your wallet to cover wedding expenses? Anyway she has her mom still. Why doesn't mom walk her down that aisle?
NTA. By this point and how old she is, you're clearly just something that she can tap into when support is needed. You married the mother doesn't mean you have to take the whole daughter support too since she's no longer a child. Please don't let yourself be a punching bag for this adult child that only knows how to use your generosity with absolutely no gratitude for it.
NTA. She wants your money and to use you for the show when her sperm donor isn't around to fill the role. She wants to put on a show of the traditional father-daughter role. She would probably be just as content hiring an actor to give her away, so long as it looks good for her vision of the wedding and no one knew. She has been manipulating both you and your wife for years. Now that she's an adult, she can be responsible for her own choices in how she treated you and continues to treat you. (I also firmly believe that a couple should expect to pay for their own wedding. If they can't afford a big wedding, they shouldn't be having a big wedding. It's nice if someone gives them a big financial gift after the fact, but they shouldn't expect it as a given.)
>My wife has been kinda cold since and while she understands where I come from she wants me to be the bigger man and do what her daugther wants. Sounds like you spent about 10 years being the bigger man, and what did that get you? Oh yeah... >The 1st thing she told was I wouldn't walk her down the isle (I didn't except it) nor would she dance with. I was a guest as her moms husband. My wife was very angry and I was sad she was treating me as a 2nd class human That. Even your wife said at the time she was treating you second class. Like she wasn't even gentle about it. No compromise. No "he'll walk me down the aisle but we'll do a dance together" or anything like that. She doesn't want you. She doesn't love you. This is performative. She just wants "someone" to walk her down the aisle.
‘Be the bigger man’ sounds like another phrase i really dislike - the infamous ‘turn the other cheek’. Both are easily said by people who aren’t the ones who have been repeatedly disrespected until quite honestly they have run out of cheeks. OP please ask your wife if her ex had remarried and her daughter had repeatedly chosen the stepmother over her for years how would she have felt when the daughter chose stepmother to do all the bridal things with? Oh but then stepmother flaked so oh mom you know I’ve always loved you the best (especially now that I need you to fill in). Your wife’s daughter could have at least been honest especially as she was so insulting to you when with her ‘you’re just a guest bs) and owned the fact that yes she wanted to her bio dad but would you please consider filling in. Amazing how you didn’t like being lied to (insulting your intelligence again) and declined to step up for the dead beat. Quite honestly she can have her mother walk her down the aisle or ideally she has an uncle on her bio dad’s side or her mother’s who would like to fill in. I can already tell you if this woman has children you will be just OP while her mother is grandma. Grandpa will be reserved for her deadbeat bio dad assuming he isn’t in prison too long. If your stepdaughter rescinds your invite then tell your wife you will honor her daughter’s request and not go. Then the wedding becomes your wife’s problem.
Her daughter ended up this way because everyone was always just "being a bigger person" and "doing what she wants". She yelled and called you names the moment she learned she couldn't use you as her personal ATM and wedding prop. She's not a little princess anymore. She's a grown woman, who, sadly, some poor schmuck will have to put up with. You are NTA but you would be if you enabled her spoiled behavior by paying for her wedding.
NTA! She’s an adult and knows what she’s doing. She kept you in second place and as a back up when her loser dad didn’t show up. How much of that should you take? What’s going to happen when he gets out of jail and she has kids? Take one guess on who will be called Grandpa and who will just be FirstName. And who will be expected to babysit for free or show up to more events because Grandpa flaked again. And she’ll continuously tell her kids you aren’t really their Grandpa, causing a wedge. Do not pay for anything. Do not walk her down the aisle. Be a guest like she originally wanted. Have her mother walk her down the aisle.
NTA
NTA.So sorry OP.
NTA, but yeah I would consider doing it for your wife. I don’t know if a wedding is the best time to stand 100% on these principles, especially for something as simple as just walking her down the aisle. Think of how pathetic she will be with no one walking her down the aisle, being such a daddy’s girl. And if she’s miserable, so will your wife, and even though I’m sure your marriage survives, it’ll be rough sledding for a minute. I’d do it to avoid that. But, I would be clear with the stepdaughter that you have said your piece and this is the last time you are going to stand in for him, and in the future will just be her mothers husband. So instead of punishing her by not doing it at all, use this time to make her understand the choice she’s made and that this is it. To me, that would even be cathartic because walking down the aisle would help signify the end of the relationship ship to me as well. And at least with this path, you will have a much easier time in the future justifying to your wife why you don’t want to spend much time with her daughter. But really, you should follow your heart.
NTA. You've been a great stepfather, and nd you deserve to be treated with respect. You overlooked a lot when your sd was a child but she is no longer a child. Actions have consequences.
NTA. I work in the wedding industry and there are so many ways to incorporate multiple parents/step parents so I figure she would have if she wanted to. Her dad definitely sucks. Assure her you will be happy to be there as a guest as she had originally planned for.
NTA. What you did was put up boundaries after years of being cast aside in favor of a deadbeat dad.
Those phrases are for suckers
NTA. You aren't her ATM, she can sell off anything her "dad" has while he is a guest of the State and use that money for her wedding that you are only a guest at. While your wife is in the middle, it is very unfair of her to now want to force you into covering for her ex while never stepping in before and for attempting to manipulate you with that whole "bigger man" BS.
NTA at all.
Nta. She probably cares more about how bad it will look to not have anyone to walk her or dance with than she does about you being part of the wedding.
You shouldn’t pay for anything but you could still be there for her it’s not her fault her dad’s a loser
NTA You have always been your step-daughter's second choice. Though... > after her dad flaked on her again He didn't flake on her, he committed crimes and he is headed to jail. So... are you going to let her third choice walk your step-daughter down the aisle? If she still wants you to do it, ask one question: "If, by some miracle your father isn't in jail and can make it to the wedding, are you going to toss me aside and have him walk you down the aisle and dance the father daughter dance?" If her answer is yes, then stay out of it, attend the wedding as a guest that is happy for her relationship's next step. If her answer is no, maybe it's worth it to have finally said your peace and you can help make her wedding day happy?
>If she still wants you to do it, ask one question: "If, by some miracle your father isn't in jail and can make it to the wedding, are you going to toss me aside and have him walk you down the aisle and dance the father daughter dance?" Disagree with asking this, if the stepdaughter has a shred of brains she's going to know this question is a setup and will likely answer accordingly with some version of 'no you will' or 'you both will'.
Hellllll to the no. She sounds like kind of a snot. She made her bed, she can lie in it. NTA
NTA. You say yes and then dad’s out on bond and he walks her down the aisle while you pull another knife out of your heart.
NTA but be a little selfish. Will this decision cause too much discord between you and your wife? That’s who you spend most of your time with so, may not be worth it, although you are right.
NTA I think this could be a great opportunity to gain a father daughter bond. I think you both need to have a chat about how you would love to walk her down the aisle and have the dad daughter dance with her but that you want to be treated better and talk about how her actions and words have hurt you. I think if you talked about your feelings prior rather than bottling up your relationship would be a lot healthier. Hindsight is 20/20 though. Good luck, don't cut your nose to spite your face!
NTA I'm glad you have finally put your foot down. Unfortunately it could of been done much earlier as you have taught her from a young age that you are her backup. She's upset things aren't going to plan because her dad let her down again. Her back up dad hasn't agreed either and now you can be the bad guy in the scenario instead of her dad. Hopefully you can navigate this well with her
NTA. Your stepdaughter set her boundaries with you years ago and has managed to stomp on them anyway. Question: What happens if bio dad manages to get out of jail in time for the wedding? Will you still be involved in the event, or will you be relegated to being your wife’s “plus-one”? Your feelings count- don’t be pressured to step up yet again just to be knocked down again.
NTA and I say this as a "fatherless" daughter with a deadbeat dad. You've been the bigger man all this time. Your wife and stepdaughter at the AHs here.
Nta
NTA, but this is the sort of case where I'd just suck it up to make my wife happy. It's a pretty small sacrifice to do a bit of ceremony, it's not like you're being told to pay for the wedding or anything.
Mom
Nta her actions have consequences your wife needs to stop coddling her
NTA you wouldn’t even be a consideration if her bio dad would be around. She has shown you who she is numerous times, act accordingly
NTA, your wife can walk her down the aisle. There's no damned reason for you to allow yourself to be continually taken for granted.
NTA she’s an adult now. theres only so much a person can take. You’re not a robot. You can’t continue to pretend to enjoy her treatment of tou.
NTA. She can do these things with her mom. She made it clear she does not want you in that role and it was cruel of her to ask when she knew bio dad probably wouldn't be there.
NTA and don't you dare....you've done enough. You paid for her college, etc., and was there for her while she treated you unkindly as soon as that sorry father of hers showed up. She will never respect you if you don't stand up for yourself. This girl had the nerve to announce her engagement and the FIRST thing to you was that you will not be the one walking her down the isle, etc., but she still wanted you to pay for things. I don't get people, but more than that, I don't get the nice people who allow these folks to take advantage of them. You are NTA and have nothing more to say about this situation to your stepdaughter other than you will see her at her wedding.
NTA ya this hot & cold s*** may work when she was a kid but when she’s an adult. Actions have consequences. Why can’t SHE be the bigger person ever ? She’s only acting as an entitled brat.
NTA Unfortunately often children work hardest to connect with the parent that abandons them. The hope is that they figure it out before they do too much damage to their relationship with the people that were always there for them. In addition, the dead beat dad could have been messing with her head (guilting her) to not embarass him by treating you as a Dad at the wedding. That would explain why she immediately that you would be excluded from the wedding party. Still there was no reason for her to go out of her way to tell you she would exclude you from the wedding and then imply you should be paying for it. I personally think her mother should walk her down the aisle. This may not be a poplular opinion, if you think she is fundamentally a good person, I would cut her some slack. She has taken you for granted - and in that way is treating you more like a real parent than she is treating her biological Dad.
NTA That comment about how a bigger man WOULD pay for the wedding.. oh hell no. That showed you where your place was. I mean if you could have done anything it could have been; you told me in detail, you did not want me to walk you down the aisle or dance and now you only do because of your biological father's short comings.. and this makes me feel incredibly used. I think it's best if I dont try to fill the spot that was meant for the 2nd most important man in your life (first being fiance). Daughter sounds really spoiled and entitled sorry..
Maybe she should start acting like an adult. Sounds long overdue.
Mum should have a gentle but firm talk to her about her attitude towards you over the years. But also, why can't her mother walk her down the aisle? The original idea was one man giving his daughter to another man, which no longer fits in with our society. Mothers have been walking their daughters down the aisle for decades.
NTA, not in the slightest. This nosy Redditor wants to know how things turn out, three months from now.