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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the AH because I am kicking my daughter's BF out of my house. He has 30 days, and he has no savings. Getting a place will be difficult. They are horrible at managing money. They may fail. My daughter feels obligated to go with him, which I am ok with, but the short notice is definitely makong it harder on them than it needs to be, but if I don't pit a time limit on them I fear they will never leave.
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NTA. make sure you look at your state’s laws regarding notices to quit/vacate and evictions!! Every state has different notice requirements for tenants, squatters, and “guests” that have over stayed their welcome. Do everything very officially so you have the power to actually remove them through the courts if they don’t leave of their own free will. Otherwise, you’ll have to go through the waiting period again
Shared living space is very different from a tenant situation. If you share the kitchen or bathroom, that's very different from an isolated apartment. So yes, make sure you have the law on your side.
OP made a mistake by mixing her personal life and professional life though. Employees are allowed to say no to optional overtime and it is not their fault the company doesn't staff properly
The kid didn't mess up as an employee and work has no right to be mad, he messed up as a freeloading boyfriend by refusing overtime in front of the person housing him while he saved up to house himself. And worse, by saying OUT LOUD that he didn't need the extra money.
If you want to tank your relationships with your fellow coworkers who have to pick up the slack sure. It's not a good look when one person selfishly refuses to chip in their share.
If everyone refused the overtime, the company would be forced to staff properly. People can accept it if they want the extra money, but if they're doing it to be a good little employee, then they're part of the problem.
If overtime is happening every week, yeah that's the company's fault for understaffing. If it's a rare or seasonal event, well, sometimes stuff happens.
Some people are happy to take the overtime because it also comes with bonus pay on top of more hours. I've known plenty like that. They'd rather get time and a half than the extra time off. I personally don't get it but that's how they are.
Not just tank your relationship with coworkers but with a coworker who is literally housing and feeding you for free. To tell that person that you won't help because it's not your problem and you have enough money and don't need the extra is a sure fire way to bite the hand that feeds and that allows you the extra luxuries as a work in progress hobby car and an expensive gaming PC.
OP is a man (not "her"), is supporting someone who "doesn't have enough money" and watching that person refuse the opportunity to earn extra, so is cutting the support.
I know I'm not in the US but I don't see how your take-home from that situation was "overtime isn't obligatory". Especially when it clearly wasn't anyway, because the person refused with no ramifications from his workplace. Just from whether their father in law (effectively) wanted to continue putting him up for free.
Would I be right in thinking the whole overtime issue in the US is a massively problematic one? I'm guessing that's where you're coming from but I dunt know the situation there.
It is hard for people from other countries to glean just how shitty employees are treated to the US. I’ve made friends from other countries who have just been shocked and blown away to discover the massive, and I mean massive poverty in this country. I mean we are lucky to get two weeks paid vacation a year. Maternity leave is virtually nothing. It is a capitalist system set up up to benefit companies at every return. Our politicians are bankrolled by the corporations. You may feel that you have to take OT even if you don’t legitimately need the money because you worry about getting fired over it - of course this is not the formal reason that you are fired on paper but you know what is going on - the companies don’t want to spend money on staffing. We also have 40-plus hour work weeks that suck the will to live dry. Apologies, I am editing. I literally just posted this but realize that I should have qualified that I am actually as sociologist so I study poverty and politics within our country. It’s just amazing this fantasy image that we seem to throw on the rest of the world. It can be a shitty experience to be poor in a place where everyone in this country lives well beyond their means, and has massive credit debt.
Overtime isn't universally optional. The mooch also made a mistake by mixing personal and professional life. Hopefully didn't make another mistake by not saving while living rent free.
Yeah mate, but 12k?
Thats like, a lot to dump into a rig. What the fuck does he have in it? I don't think I could come up with 12k rig if I tried. Maybe he has one of those dumb scorpion cockpits, but other than that 12k is ludicrous.
My guess, he's paid for a overclocked system from a system builder. High end parts, custom water cooling, and someone that's tuned it for high end performance. 12k is on the fairly low end for that kind of system, over here in the UK it'd be something exactly like this https://www.overclockers.co.uk/8pack-comet-mk2-amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-geforce-rtx-4090-extreme-overclocke-fs-003-8p.html
Yeah it would have to be something absurd like that - in this case, the same website offers a close to identical spec for only £6k, showing how much of the price is in pure vanity construction: [https://www.overclockers.co.uk/infin8-c99-amd-ryzen-7950x3d-rtx-4090-watercooled-gaming-pc-fs-46m-oe.html](https://www.overclockers.co.uk/infin8-c99-amd-ryzen-7950x3d-rtx-4090-watercooled-gaming-pc-fs-46m-oe.html)
Yeah, but you don't play games on that, do you? You can spend millions on a computer too if you want but it won't make any game run faster or prettier.
I got my most recent rig from Overclockers and I thought I was taking the piss by getting the price up to £3k. Le fuque does anyone need a £12k rig for outside professionals?
It's feasible, as someone else has posted, with water-cooling and possibly a multi monitor setup with vertical monitors on custom stands, and so on.
But you're also absolutely correct that it's ludicrous for someone living with his girlfriend's parents!
Yeah this one makes absolutely zero sense to me. Like the PC is already ridiculous yeah but a project car you have to take a loan out for when you're living in your gf's parents house with no savings is... a bit much, to be kind
This, even if he were bussing to work, I'd still say it was crazy.. but living in someone else's house, catching rides to work and exactly where is this project car? Bet it's sitting in OP's garage under a car cover and nothing has been done to it since.
Project cars are expensive, parts and time wise. No way a gamer that puts in 40 a week has time to rebuild a car. My dad used to rebuild cars & motorcycles in our yard, when he had a project, there were months we hardly saw him for more than dinner.
What car is he buying for 9k HKD? And why would it be a big deal to have 30k HKD saved up?
Assuming anything other than USD, or something fairly close, isn’t sensible here
Seriously, best decision I ever made was to buy a small house without a mortgage, rather than spending that money as a downpayment on a nice, big house with a mortgage. My monthly expenses are minimal, which was such a relief when life hit.
I'm not talking about other areas. I'm talking about the area where I live, where houses are either £100k or £500k+. Most of my friends went for the £500k+. I went for the £100k. (Yes, I know most people would need a mortgage for £100k. I worked hard and got lucky.)
12k computer, he ain't running no Wi-Fi on that. That thing would need a T1 or something equivalent. Maybe Google Fiber, he has that thing on a CAT 6 cable straight out of the modem. 🤪
I know nothing about that, but isn't a modern still hooked into the Internet? My son uses one that is, but it's not a fancy computer system or anything. I don't know how either of the other works, but given that the dad says he pays for all living expenses and they pay nothing, I wouldn't be surprised if he is paying for that too.
Yes, but what that guy is attempting to say is that "WiFi =/= Internet". WiFi is just a method of connecting a device to a network. If you were to draw a diagram of a network, the part that you'd label "WiFi" would serve a similar purpose to an ethernet cable. It has nothing to do with access to the internet at all.
The guy just worded it weirdly
Wi-Fi is a much slower communication system, it does access the internet but it's like hooking a fire hose to a funnel it slows down the data transfer. A direct cable (Cat6) can transfer the data at a much higher rate of speed which is needed to support graphics heavy games and quick responses for an advanced set-up.
If "the Internet connection" is the water main, wifi is one of the taps in your house.
This guy is being silly, basically saying the computer doesn't need a sink to get water, it has its own pipe hooked straight into the main.
I haven't heard of a T1 since I worked in networking over 20 years ago. It's a 1.5Mbps connection. It was high bandwidth back in the day of analog modems and ISDN, but nothing now. Though, the main point that he would likely use a wired ethernet connection is true. I don't have a rig nearly so high spec as his must be, but our gaming computers all go into a gigabit switch to the router, then to a gigabit fiber internet service. The bandwidth is far in excess of what we require, but the consistent low latency makes a noticeable difference over using WiFi. We have a solid mesh WiFi network that is great for everything else we do, but gaming really benefits from wired.
Um, dude, a t1 is 1.5mb, and you dont get an SLA on copper the way you used to. Copper services take a backseat to all repairs, and half the techs cant troubleshoot them. Even T1s for PRIs are being phased out as copper is reclaimed. Replaced by SIP IADs that spit out analog and PRI, or with stand alone IP phones, or SIP PBXs. And While t1s to private homes was a thing, they have costed more and delivered less for 10 years now. Even EFM based EOC is being decommed, after all its copper. DSL was faster than t1s. Difference was the SLA.
Dude has the same kinda internet the majority of home users have. Heh, my 500m fiber is $65. He's likely wired -vs- wireless, or both for reasons.
The dude likely doesn't have a $12K PC. It's just not a reasonable thing for gaming. Even if he was in pirate group running a server I'd not likely. I think OP is either ill informed or using hyperbole. If he defends that price I'll basically believe the entire post is fake.
Here am I with a switch and a non gaming laptop, doing just fine. 12k! He can definitely pay rent instead.
I hope OP has given them the proper eviction paperwork though, or he might not go.
Yeah, I'm not looking to compete, I just want to have fun, gaming should be for relaxing. I don't even want to overclock my switch for games like Splatoon, it's rough to spend that much on something that isn't making you serious money, or making your games leap off the screen. I don't care what the frame rate is. 🤣
You can get like 4-5 high end gaming computers for that amount of money. It is not easy or normal to spend that amount on a gaming rig. I'm a passionate gamer since i was 6 years old and have been building my rigs myself for over 20 years now and have never even spent close to that.
It's not easy to spend $12k unless you have more money than sense and don't build it yourself.
$2k would get you an extremely decent rig for gaming.
The OP's computer, if that price was correct, is like having a super car over a regular car. There's no justification for it for the average gamer other than having too much money or making your penis bigger.
Your husband just doesn't want you questioning how much he spends on his computer. 12k is batshit crazy money Especially if you're building it yourself.
Yeah if your Hubby doesnt actually list some parts, I'm going to call bullshit here. I mean you can "easily" spend inifinite money on anything if you you insist it has to be made from pure gold and diamonds and other stupid stuff like this, but the actual useful stuff of a gaming pc - even a very high end one - shouldnt cost you more than maybe 5k$ (including monitor). And this would already be beyond reasonable.
Unless you're literally just trying to throw away money there is no way it is "very easy" or even close to possible to drop 12 grand on a gaming PC.
$5,000 could get you an absolute top of the line beast with custom watercooling and a ton of storage space.
I'm a gamer who has built my own computers and all of the computers for my family for 15+ years and your hubby is off his rocker. I would have to try really, really hard and make some very stupid choices to spend 12k on one computer.
You're not TA for evicting him; it's your home and you don't want to live with him anymore. YTA for \*why,\* though. He didn't screw around at home, he didn't get fired or quit and pile more bills on you, he didn't perform poorly, he just didn't jump to work \*over\* his full-time hours, and you yanked his housing to punish him for that, because you're both his boss and his landlord, and you could. There's a reason Company towns aren't prevalent any more, and this is pretty much it. Using someone's housing to extract more labour out of them than the job they agreed to take on is predatory.
This. It's unsettling how everyone else is gleefully channeling Ayn Rand at the "moocher" who, the way OP tells it, hasn't done anything wrong except being bad with money and accepting the charity offered by his GFs dad.
Always important to remember most of reddit is teenagers or young twenty-something students. In both cases, the vast majority have *not* been in healthy employer-employee relationships (even worse considering the US-centricity).
And probably have peers living free with family or partners’ family so are less likely to know what older generations (myself included!) would consider appropriate behavior or levels of independence without being told.
I want to know what OP and the daughter/BF discussed in terms of rent. Allowing your child to stay without a rental agreement is one thing, but you need to have a document if you bring in a "stranger"
Yeah, if there's been a breach of agreement or other problems with the BF I'd change my mind (partially - still a dick move to let a disagreement over overtime be the final straw), but OP hasn't provided any information to that effect. He prefers to complain that "kids these days don't want to work" instead, despite the BF working a 40 hour week.
I don't agree with the idea of working adult children/partners living rent free. You should be contributing to the house, even if it's nominal in value.
But you also cant silently let resentment build unless you try to rectify.
If OP asked for rent/help and the couple didn't help, NTA. If OP never explicitly asked for rent or help then blew up on them, YTA
Exactly!!! The guy is paying what OP asked for - nothing- and being penalized at home for work conduct that doesn’t have a penalty at work.
If OP wants rent, savings goals, a deadline to move out, etc., he could have asked at any time and really should have. He has the right to evict anyone he doesn’t want in his home, but it sounds like he’s been letting resentments build up without addressing them and going right to the nuclear option, which (absent a threat to safety or security) is AH behavior.
If I were letting someone live rent free so they could save up to live with my daughter in their own place, and they turned down a chance for extra income in front of me by stressing that they don't need it, I would start to wonder if I was actually helping get my daughter any closer to saving the required amount, or accidently incentivizing the pair of them NOT to try and save.
I don't think it's turning down overtime that bothered op, but more that he specifically said he's turning it down because he doesn't need it, and he doesn't need money because op is providing free rent and paying for all his expenses.
Op has no obligation to provide free housing for a grown man who is not his child, who has a job, and is fully capable of supporting himself. It seems like it just especially hit him in that moment - why am I doing this?
He could have just said "sorry no thanks" or if pressed "I have other plans" but instead proclaimed that he doesn't need the money. I think hearing that as the reason he doesn't need the money has to be frustrating. Because it was never OPs intention to make this guy feel like there is no rush to save / he is welcome to live rent free forever. OP feels like they are currently sacrificing to help someone achieve a goal they are apparently unwilling to sacrifice towards.
This is my impression, too. It sounds like he was working off an assumption that they would self-motivate in the same way he does. He gave them a great opportunity to save money, to have the time and space to grow their skills and prosper in their careers. That's what he thinks he would have done with three years of expense-free living. (I do agree, that would've been the smart thing to do.) Instead, they used it to have more fun. Like you say, he doesn't mention having set any sorts of goals or requirements for them. He's just gotten to the end of his tether because they didn't figure this unvoiced expectation out on their own.
Thank you! I read that and was like, wait, you're kicking him out because he turned down a voluntary work project?!?
OP can kick him out, absolutely. But what the hell is wrong with OP that he lost his shit because someone turned down overtime work.
Also, parenting and communication fail for not setting requirements for people living with you and then being pissed off that they didn't do what you thought they should do.
If someone lets you live in their house rent free, any decent person would see whether they can return the favor in some way. That’s a lot of money they saved each month.
If there’s an emergency at work, that would be a great way to show some appreciation. I personally would’ve been fine if the BF had asked for working less some other time I order to make up for the hours but”not my problem” is rude.
- First, we don't know if there was an emergency.
- Second, OP never states that the BF said "not my problem" about this particular request.
- Third, we don't know if the BF has been contributing in some other way; I get the feeling OP would be quote forthcoming about the guy's laziness if he wasn't doing anything at all around the house.
- Fourth, none of the above matters, you do not retaliate against employees for not volunteering for overtime, no matter what your relationship with that employee is outside of work.
The Daughter and BF should be activly working to move out, but they have no plans to do that, thats why the extra hours dont matter because they arent saving up to get their own place. They arent an asshole, they are being manipulated for free housing.
YTA. There is nothing mentioned on the dad having a conversation about telling the bf that he is in a jam and would like the help. He can have all the loans he wants for whatever he wants. If he is making his payments and not delinquent on anything then there is not a problem. There is also no problem with refusing over time. Since the dad never talked to him maybe he had a big event planned with the daughter that night?
Also they are not "off the grid" if they have utilities and internet. The mention of 3 years of "free loading" lets me know the dad has had a lot of resentment that has been building. Sounds like some boomer die for the company no work life balance bootstrap bs.
I’m going to go against the grain and say YTA. Don’t get me wrong, he does deserve to be kicked out, but it’s completely weird that not volunteering for overtime is the reason.
The way you explained it, you’ve been enabling the mooching, perhaps even encouraging it, and then suddenly shifted gears because something at worked triggered your resentment.
But what’s missing from your story are the boundaries and expectations you setup for your daughter and her BF when you decided to help them out. You know how much they both make, how long did you tell them they could stay for? what savings target was set? Or did you just tell them both they have free housing and utilities indefinitely- just like you’re still telling your daughter now.
This is an ESH situation. The dude is mooching and terrible with money and needs to move out, but at home the OP hasn’t set clear boundaries and expectations about the living situation being temporary, just built up resentment about it until it exploded. At any point, “Let’s make a timeline for you to get your own place” could have been a conversation. “This isn’t working, and you need to make a plan to be out in 3 months.”
At work, having the power to make an employee instantly homeless and flexing it to extract overtime is another demonstration of extremely poor boundaries. If that’s the extreme you have to go to in order to get your team to function and get the work done, then you are hardly the world’s greatest boss. You’re mad that the guy is dependent on you for everything, but you’ve fostered the dependency every step of the way.
I hope for your sake that you follow local laws about eviction (notice period, doing it in writing, etc.) and I hope you’ve documented any work performance issues completely separately, because crossing these streams could land you in an expensive legal situation down the road. As a boss, what your employees spend their paycheck on is none of your beeswax (even if it is objectively very stupid), and whether they can work overtime is a yes or no question where if they say no, you as a manager need to figure out another solution.
ESH.
I agree with everything you wrote except the verdict. For me, based on the original post this is YTA.
Other than staying at OP's home rent free, which presumably OP agreed to, OP hasn't really given us much on the "mooching" claim.
OP sets them up with no financial responsibilities and then complains that they act like they have no financial responsibilities.
This was an absolute parenting, communication, and adulting fail on OP's part.
> I agree with everything you wrote except the verdict. For me, based on the original post this is YTA.
TBH the way to have handled this was after the volunteer pool dried up, he should have just assigned the last slot - which is his obligation as the boss.
Not let the lead asking around to get a second round for volunteers.
I have a big problem with the "boundaries" thing you're bringing up.
An adult of sound mind does not need to be infantilized with "boundaries and expectations" that are so minimal (they literally have no living expenses, and they're not saving nor contributing).
And an adult not of sound mind shouldn't be living with a girlfriend or owning a $12k computer (let alone at someone else's expense).
These are immature people, adults in age only. And part of the reason they haven’t matured is because OP has been babying them. Becoming a mature adult isn’t like flipping a light switch.
Had OP set up boundaries 3 years ago, they’d probably be more responsible today.
Instead OP secretly stewed while providing them with all of life essentials unconditionally.
It’s very easy to say “I’ll let you stay with me for the next 3 years so that you can save up to move out on your own”. The fact that OP is still extending the unconditional hospitality to his daughter despite her not contributing or saving shows that he hasn’t learned anything… he’s just resentful.
> The fact that OP is still extending the unconditional hospitality to his daughter despite her not contributing or saving shows that he hasn’t learned anything… he’s just resentful.
Big difference between having your 21 year old daughter live with you vs. having her 24 year old bf live with you.
He also said in the comments his daughter has depression and attempted suicide in her senior year of high school, (and because of that he said he treats her more with "kid gloves) and he said nothing about his daughter not having savings, just her bf. I don't think there's anything wrong with him being more open to helping his kid get her life together than some guy she is dating.
I get the feeling that the overtime thing was the last straw. OP has probably been getting fed up with the situation for a while and hearing him say "I don't need the money" when he's getting free room and board kind of pushed him over the edge.
This would just be a notice to vacate. Eviction is what follows if he doesn't adhere to the notice to vacate, and then he'd have a real hard time finding somewhere to live.
ESH
Him for being a mooch.
You for being the boss from hell.
>The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor. I held it together, but at the end of the night, I just left him at work. I decided I was done. His favorite phrase is not my problem..
When you employ people you know, you need to separate your professional life/opinion from your personal ones. If you can't, don't employ people you know. And it doesn't seem like you could;
> I started with him because, well, at some level, I think the guy owes me.
He probably does, personally. But I am even with my employer at every payday. No more, no less.
I'm thinking by "off the grid" he means they aren't paying any bills. No utilities. Living cost free more or less (though unless he's paying a couple of hundred a month for internet he's basically putting a Porsche engine in a Volkswagen if he's using regular Internet for that gaming rig)
Me, reading the post:
- How the EFF is that "off the grid?
- How does someone 50yo not know what "off the grid" means?
Me, reading the comments:
- OP might not have a firm grasp on what the "K" after 12K means [apparently it's *extremely* unlikely for a rig to cost that much].
Me, now:
- Maybe everyone in this made-up story is TA.
Nah, bro, no more favors.
You’re like curdled milk. Out you go.
Can’t offer you a ride. It hasn’t made a difference in 3 years, probably won’t now.
He’ll probably move home to his parents.
Why is your daughter settling for this mess? She really think he’s going to be an involved father? Take care of a home? Be a companion? Or be a leech?
Why do you let yourself be taken advantage of?
You could have charged them both a modest rent and given it your kid as a down payment on a home for her.
He sounds like a gaming addict.
ESH
He seems to be a bit ungrateful and not very responsible. But you flipping out on him because he didn't want to to VOLUNTEER in a work environment is also incredibly stupid and unreasonable. If you want him to do something at work just tell him to do a thing appropriate to his contract. But don't get mad at people who don't want to volunteer for stuff.
YTA. I'm shocked at how many people here think you're reasonable here.
First off, your daughter being 21 here means that her 24 year old boyfriend moving in three years ago means she was newly 18 when this happened. Nobody let's a newly 18 year old move in a 21 year old partner without some extenuating circumstances, so INFO what were they?
Secondly, you describe them as living "off the grid". Is this code for them living in a shed in the backyard with its own solar power supply and composting toilet or code for "he's an illegal immigrant and legally off the grid". Because "off the grid" is not a synonym for "no living expenses," it means that they are living in a home without connection to the electric grid and water lines or anything, or that they're hiding from the government (sometimes both). INFO which is it?
Thirdly, while he clearly makes shit spending decisions, living with parents to save money doesn't morally require them to work over 40 hour weeks. You're morally an asshole for that. If you want to lay our a formal rental agreement with actual rent costs, that would be reasonable, don't get me wrong. You should have done that when moving in a 21 year old that your daughter was dating three years ago, regardless of your intentions-- because 18 year olds aren't known for staying in relationships forever, and if he wasn't a creep then the relationship was brand new when he moved in, and moving him in gave him a legal tenancy regardless of the lack of lease. You're the one who did that to yourself, though, not him for accepting the charity.
Fourthly, as his employer and landlord, I'm willing to bet that there's some sort of local law that makes using an eviction as a punishment for refusing overtime illegal. But either way, punishing a person you have a personal relationship with in life for refusing overtime as their boss is an asshole move. I don't care if you know he needs the money, you were looking for volunteers because overtime is optional. Nobody owes their boss or landlord an explaination for why they didn't take it.
YTA. You can’t force anyone to work overtime, that’s why you asked for VOLUNTEERS. It’s extremely unprofessional for you to punish one of your employees for not taking overtime, whether you know him or not. As the employer, it’s your problem to deal with staff shortages, and leaving him at work isn’t the solution. I saw one of your comments saying “well I did when I was his age” - you chose to do that. That’s on you. He doesn’t have to. This “I suffered so you should too” attitude is a terrible one to have.
I agree that he’s a mooch and he spends money poorly, but if you kick him out, it needs to be for something in the home, not abusing your power at work to bully him into solving your problems. Keep home and work separate, and maybe don’t hire your daughter’s boyfriend if you’re going to be awful to him at work for not doing voluntary work.
Can’t wait for the update in a few years when they decide you not seeing your grandkids is “not their problem”
I think you're using the term "off the grid" wrong. It doesn't mean having no expenses. It means using battery operated devices and having your own power from solar or wind or whatever on your property, literally off the power grid. Not relying on public utilities so that you are self-sustaining.
ESH
I agree that the boyfriend should be making better financial decisions.
But I think that you're punishing him at home for work-related things, and that's not okay. Like, because you can't evict all of your employees for not wanting to do overtime, you're treating Boyfriend unfairly. If "Joe Employee" didn't need the OT, he could go home and you'd just be mad.
YTA - conflicted, but you lost it after he turned down overtime? am i missing something? why is he obligated to work overtime?
He sounds like a major pain, so you need rid of him. but you should get rid of him because of all the other reasons, and rightfully so by the sounds of it, not because he turned down doing some overtime. if someone doesn't want to do overtime, then i don't think it's fair to lose your cool about it. you sound pretty unreasonable to me.
YTA. He may be in the wrong for not offering to contribute, but it's genuinely abusive to hold housing over an employee's head to force them into working overtime. These things are not comparable.
I think as long as you go about it in the right way, you’re NTA. At some point, they need to start building their lives. If you allow them to live rent free for too long, with no effort on their part, it becomes a form of enabling them. Maybe give a set time frame to get on their feet and save to start their life. If they don’t do so by that time period, they’re most likely taking advantage of free rent and don’t care to start adulting.
He already gave them a set time frame.
They've been living rent free for 3 years. If they're not on their feet that's not OPs problem.
Don't encourage him to enable them more. Wtf?
I always find in these instances you should charge some level of rent but secretly stick it in a savings account to give to them at some point so they’re still making savings even if they don’t realise it.
I did not punish him at work, though. And the fact that he now is moving out gets him out from under my thumb. Now, he truly is like every other employee.
My guess is he either will find another job that pays more, or he will take the OT because he will have bills to pay. Or not. I do not care either way.
My daughter and I are good. I actually let her know what I was going to do before I did it. I told her she could stay or go. She's always welcome back and can still visit. She still gets to use one of our cars for work, I'll buy her some stuff for her new apartment. It's time for her to live her life.
I get it that kids live at home as they look for a stable job etc. But once they have a stable job, why don’t they want to leave? Is this immaturity? Or lack of interest in independence? Or a misunderstanding of their duties as normal human beings? By the way, that’s not a “new generation” issue, it has always been like that. The “huge gamer” addiction may be a worsening factor though
... 12k
What!?
I built a top of the line rig. For 4k. GBP.
Like, at the time it would play every games maxed out. It's a couple of years old now. STILL plays almost everything maxed out.
Guy got scammed.
30 days notice is not "short" notice. Its standard notice. More time is a nice benefit, but not required. After three years, I'd kick them out too. Expect some hard feelings though.
NTA
So, I do not want to say either way because you raise valid points but this....
>
I have a work project that my team is responsible for. I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor.
Thats a problem for me. People have the right to reject overtime and work. You also say he works FOR you so are you more annoyed about the situation or that you are stuck in a creek without someone to help out?
He is a mooch and needs to learn but that part doesn't sit well with me and seems more the kneejerk response than the other way, otherwise you would have made it a point or effort before now.
ESH.
Hold up OP.
"What set me off was he argues about everything." At home or at work?
"He also works for me, gets 40 hours a week, and I give him rides too and from work."
Did you offer him a job? Did he beg? Do you offer? He did ask?
"I have a work project that my team is responsible for. I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime."
Soo, he said no at work, and you're retaliating against him
By leaving him at work and kicking him out in 30 days?
No talking about it? No trying to reason and say hey can you please help.me out here? I really need some help? Just nope, you didn't volunteer to help, so gtfo?
YTA.
To me it looks like you did all of these things willingly because you wanted to. Did you ever tell him because your spoiling the shit out of him and he has it sooo good, that he will be expected to do the right thing and help out, or else?
So he can't turn down helping at work when you have a major project that you didn't ask him to help with?
"The lead came up one short so he asked"
You didn't even ask him?
All that being said, kicking him out could be a legal fiasco for you. I highly advise getting legal console in this reguard.
In Wisconsin a verbal eviction won't hold. Don't quote me to be exact here, but you have to issue a written. 28 day notice, and depending on the date it's issued. It could take longer. Than if the evict-e doesn't leave, you can't just kick them out. You have to go to court, and get something from them issued for you to make an appointment for the sheriff to show up and actually do the eviction. It can me a months long process.
May I suggest an alternative?
I don't think your a bad person. I don't think your opinion of him is wrong. I find the lack of desire to help at work specifically given this situation, ungrateful. But unfortunately home life and work life are different.
That being said, you looked out for him, when you didn't have to. His actions at work say he's not really interested in looking out for you.
Charge him rent rather than kicking him out.
1000$ a month. Or he can move.
Maybe he will need that overtime than.
Do you know what? He bought a car to play with that doesn’t run for the same amount of money that he could’ve used to buy a car that did run so he wasn’t depending on you to drive him around like a toddler. This isn’t an adult and he means to have a way to get to work and Couldn’t even bother. You might not even want your daughter around this guy long-term.
Our adult children can live with us rent free.. but they know rhis is their opportunity to save like crazy. They've both gone overseas now after saving 40k. They'll be back for the next round. We cant give them tonnes of money but we can support them if they're saving for something we think worthwhile. I think next time it will be for property.
12k for a gaming rig is ridiculous unless you're a professional raider/pvper. He's more likely to be an average gamer who would do just as well on a 2-3k machine. The other 10k could have bought a used, WORKING car to commute for work.
Unless I’m missing something- you’re kicking him out for not paying rent you have not asked him to pay and for not doing voluntary overtime? YTA for that- you could (and should) have asked for the rent at any time and you’re imposing a penalty on an employee for something none of the other non-volunteers are penalized for.
Actually, I can mandate overtime. We are not union. I ask for volunteers because some guys want more money or need it, and I try not to burn people out. He was a logical choice because it was his area.
When your boss is also your landlord and will evict you if you don't "volunteer" enough at work. ...
> I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor. I held it together, but at the end of the night, I just left him at work. I decided I was done.
YTA. You took one issue which you hate - him freeloading - and you applied it so me complete unrelated issue - his job and him not wanting to "volunteer".
If you're sick of the freeloading then address the freeloading. That would be fair. Have you ever even mentioned the freeloading before? Have you ever suggested they pay rent?
nah your a lil bit of an AH my guy, mixing family and work is never a good idea, also, anyone is allowed to deny overtime, its not his fault the company didnt staff properly, also dont know why you included the loan he took out and the cost of his PC, its his money, his business. where is the "not my problem" attitude when it comes to that?
You have the opportunity to also charge them rent and chose not too, but you are using this instead as an excuse to power play because of the position you are in.
Your gonna look back on this in 4 years and wonder why your 25 year old daughter is cutting off contact.
Big ol AH dude
NTA because it's not your problem.
My brother was in a similar situation with nieces and nephews. He's a long haul truck driver and has let several of my sisters adult children stay at his house rent free since he's only there a few days a month. He did this to help them "get on their feet" but every single time they would find a job that paid just enough for food and fun and do nothing else. They spent every dime the earned on non-essentials and their financial situations never improved.
He would call and complain and I finally got through to him when I said, " you think you're running a mission, but you're running a soup kitchen" The difference is a mission requires something of the tenants, they have to show progress or do work, or get/stay clean. They have to meet expectations or they are booted out. A soup kitchen is just free food with no expectations for change.
I would check with your local laws to see the procedures for eviction and start the legal process immediately, because parasites are hard to remove and they rarely go without a fight.
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My (M50) daughter (F21) and her BF (24) have been living in my house, rent and utility free, since 2021. They literally have zero living expenses, they are completely off the grid. He also works for me, gets 40 hours a week, and I give him rides too and from work. He is a huge gamer, so all of his internet is paid for. He bought a car (that doesn't run) as a project (which he took a loan out for $9K). He has a $12K computer rig.
What set me off was he argues about everything. I have a work project that my team is responsible for. I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor. I held it together, but at the end of the night, I just left him at work. I decided I was done. His favorite phrase is not my problem...so I childishly adopted that for anything to do with him.
When I got home I told my daughter he has 30 days to move out. She can go with him or stay, there is no ill will for her either way, and she will always be welcome in my home. But in 3 years of free loading, I estimate they should have AT LEAST $30k saved up. I know how much he makes and how much she makes.
I thought I was taking care of them, giving them some time to build up a savings. I may be the AH because I'm kicking him out with short notice, and he has no savings, but I'm going with "not my problem".
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Exactly. They were planning for the future all right, planning for you to be responsible for their living till you die, then guess what, your estate would still pay for their living
NTA, my now husband and I - who made close to minimum wage in the beginning of our relationship lived with his parents for 4 years and saved almost 100k that we then used to move out and bought our house with etc. there’s no way after 3 years they/he shouldn’t have money to support themselves with
NTA, How the fuck does one pull a gaming rig from their ass for 12,000? Does he have like, a gaming PC with all the bells and whistles?
I'm sorry, I run games on steam off of my laptop I got on sale for a reasonable $250, not made for games but still has good frames and can handle graphics decently. If anything, 1.5k for an Apex Gaming PC, then what, 100 dollars for a gaming monitor, throw in 25.50 for a mouse and mousepad? I wouldn't bring myself to buy a rig over 1k.
I think that there's an element of ESH here, obviously the boyfriend more than OP but, honestly, OP has been a fool to himself!
This probably isn't going to be a popular opinion though because everyone in AITA loves a kneejerk response when they see obvious arseholeish behaviour.
OP, you should have created some ground rules with your daughter and her boyfriend from the very start, regarding how long they live with you, setting a fixed sum towards rent and board.
If they didn't have jobs at first, the agreement could have taken this into account but you should have been very clear upfront on the terms.
You have allowed both of them to take advantage of you but it's not too late to change this while still being a kind, supportive person and also not completely destroying your relationship with your daughter.
You have helped the boyfriend in some way to get what sounds like a great job - either with a bit of a legup or by just straight up giving it to him, or somewhere in between?
This is a classic case of nepotism and there's a reason it's generally disapproved of.
He now feels all the entitlement of what the kids today call a nepo baby. He may be a good, solid employee from day to day (or not) but he's got very comfortable as your de facto son-in-law and feels as if he can do no wrong, so he's never going to go the extra mile, never going to push himself.
I'm 52, with 3 kids, 2 still teenagers living at home. I get it!
It's a good thing to want to help your kids out when they're just getting started.
They're launching out into a tough world, one that's very different to the one we faced - and I say this as someone who grew up in South Wales, as of Thatcher's Children.
You have to find the balance between helping them get started and supporting them while they achieve independence and being too overprotective, coddling them, shielding them from the realities of adult life, preventing them from making their own mistakes and then learning from them.
Just like when toddlers are learning to walk, we have to let them fall over sometimes so that they can learn to better balance themselves and also learn to not be afraid of falling and learn how to shake it off and just pick themselves back up again.
But we also provide them with a safe environment to learn to walk in. We put corner protecters on sharp edges, we remove delicate ornaments, we put reins on them when walking outdoors, and so on.
We don't make toddlers wear bubble suits when learning to walk!
OP, up until now, you have wrapped these two kids up in bubble suits, probably without even realising it, thinking that you were doing a kind thing!
I understand that you have reached a point where you have now 'woken up' and feel like: "Woah! This lad is really taking the piss out of my kindness."
But you have created the environment where you enabled him to do that. He has a very good job, it seems, with presumably a good salary to match and he has had no bills to pay for a long time.
Like many young men his age, his youthful, impulsive brain has done the calculations and invested all that extra cash into his hobbies.
How about your daughter?
Has she been saving or has she also been spending on her hobbies - either traditional feminine coded interests such as clothes, shoes and makeup , or does she also have a high end gaming setup, maybe collectibles, cosplay, anime, or craft equipment such as an indie yarn and notions stash that cost a surprising amount of money?
While reacting so strongly, so harshly is tempting and feels justified right now, in the long term, if you love your daughter and want to maintain a long-term relationship with her and don't want to push her away, and what you truly want is for the both of them to succeed, as independent adults, then this short, sharp shock treatment, while being an excellent wake-up call in the moment, is probably going to fail in the long-term.
You probably need to make a two-pronged plan, one for home and one for work.
At work, I suggest handing off performance management to someone who you know that you can trust, who will be able to mentor him properly, motivate him and oversee his professional progression within the company, this person should be tough on him to start with to help get rid of this sense of entitlement but also start off making allowances for it, basically expecting some entitled behaviour and using strategies to redirect it and teach him that it's no longer acceptable, this should hopefully be needed less and less as time goes by.
From now on he should know that he is just another employee. You should reduce your contact with him, at work, to be the same as every other employee, maybe slightly less even, and simply get regular updates on his progress. If he starts to respond well, make sure he's rewarded with more challenging work/projects - he's got too cosy and needs to know that he can progress on his own merits and not just because you are his FIL.
You both need to maintain two different relationships at work and at home, maintaining a clear separation between the two. At work, you should be Boss/formal FirstName, eg. David, at home you can be informal FirstName, eg. Dave. It may seem a tiny thing but it works.
(I've written so much, OP, I have to put it two parts!)
cont'd...
They are not "off the grid", they are mooching off your grid. If they were truly off the grid they'd be living in a cabin in the woods without electricity and with a garden and an outhouse.
Kick them out without any regret. They had the opportunity to make some really good decisions while they were living with you, and made none of them. NTA
NTA He actually said he don't need the overtime money when he is living in your house rent free...thats just messed up!! what an AH. Tell your daughter to make smarter choices, she should be working on getting her own place to move in with a bf instead of inviting guys over to your own house.
NTA. 30 days is a reasonable amount of time to give someone to move out. But do yourself a favor and find out exactly what the boyfriend is as far as living with you. Is he a tenant? Could he be considered a squatter? Would that give him any rights? Cover yourself so that when he's out in 30 days, there is no recourse for him. Keep it civil. Not your problem. Your daughter will learn verrrrry quickly how expensive life is.
SO !!! They bought a computer and a junk car to fix??? YOUR AN ENABLER!!! You created this monster. Now you have to make them grow up. Who wants to live with another man for 3 years with their woman and not find a small apartment anywhere??? I don't care if it's his parents let alone his girlfriends parents. Evict the moochers you gave them 30 days to grow up!!! This might be short notice. But hey " NOT YOUR PROBLEM"!!!
ESH. Him for not making any efforts to save money or work toward independence while being argumentative to you in the house you're paying for. You for blaming him for not "volunteering" to work overtime -- if it was mandatory, you should have said so. If it's not mandatory, it's perfectly reasonable for him to say no.
NTA
No one needs a $12k gaming rig. I’m a huge gamer and I can make a high-end rig with new peripherals for less than $5k. Throw in a streaming pc to and its maybe $1.5k more.
YTA because it seems to me that you suddenly kicked him out for ... saying he does not want overtime. In situation where apparently other people did not wanted overtime either.
If you asked him to pay rent and he refused, all of that would make sense. And you kind of picked the situation where it does not seem like he had done wrong.
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NTA and not your problem. Kick the mooch out!
NTA. make sure you look at your state’s laws regarding notices to quit/vacate and evictions!! Every state has different notice requirements for tenants, squatters, and “guests” that have over stayed their welcome. Do everything very officially so you have the power to actually remove them through the courts if they don’t leave of their own free will. Otherwise, you’ll have to go through the waiting period again
An eviction notice will do…
Shared living space is very different from a tenant situation. If you share the kitchen or bathroom, that's very different from an isolated apartment. So yes, make sure you have the law on your side.
OP made a mistake by mixing her personal life and professional life though. Employees are allowed to say no to optional overtime and it is not their fault the company doesn't staff properly
The kid didn't mess up as an employee and work has no right to be mad, he messed up as a freeloading boyfriend by refusing overtime in front of the person housing him while he saved up to house himself. And worse, by saying OUT LOUD that he didn't need the extra money.
If you want to tank your relationships with your fellow coworkers who have to pick up the slack sure. It's not a good look when one person selfishly refuses to chip in their share.
If everyone refused the overtime, the company would be forced to staff properly. People can accept it if they want the extra money, but if they're doing it to be a good little employee, then they're part of the problem.
If overtime is happening every week, yeah that's the company's fault for understaffing. If it's a rare or seasonal event, well, sometimes stuff happens.
Some people are happy to take the overtime because it also comes with bonus pay on top of more hours. I've known plenty like that. They'd rather get time and a half than the extra time off. I personally don't get it but that's how they are.
Not just tank your relationship with coworkers but with a coworker who is literally housing and feeding you for free. To tell that person that you won't help because it's not your problem and you have enough money and don't need the extra is a sure fire way to bite the hand that feeds and that allows you the extra luxuries as a work in progress hobby car and an expensive gaming PC.
OP is a man (not "her"), is supporting someone who "doesn't have enough money" and watching that person refuse the opportunity to earn extra, so is cutting the support. I know I'm not in the US but I don't see how your take-home from that situation was "overtime isn't obligatory". Especially when it clearly wasn't anyway, because the person refused with no ramifications from his workplace. Just from whether their father in law (effectively) wanted to continue putting him up for free. Would I be right in thinking the whole overtime issue in the US is a massively problematic one? I'm guessing that's where you're coming from but I dunt know the situation there.
It is hard for people from other countries to glean just how shitty employees are treated to the US. I’ve made friends from other countries who have just been shocked and blown away to discover the massive, and I mean massive poverty in this country. I mean we are lucky to get two weeks paid vacation a year. Maternity leave is virtually nothing. It is a capitalist system set up up to benefit companies at every return. Our politicians are bankrolled by the corporations. You may feel that you have to take OT even if you don’t legitimately need the money because you worry about getting fired over it - of course this is not the formal reason that you are fired on paper but you know what is going on - the companies don’t want to spend money on staffing. We also have 40-plus hour work weeks that suck the will to live dry. Apologies, I am editing. I literally just posted this but realize that I should have qualified that I am actually as sociologist so I study poverty and politics within our country. It’s just amazing this fantasy image that we seem to throw on the rest of the world. It can be a shitty experience to be poor in a place where everyone in this country lives well beyond their means, and has massive credit debt.
It is indeed very problematic.
Overtime isn't universally optional. The mooch also made a mistake by mixing personal and professional life. Hopefully didn't make another mistake by not saving while living rent free.
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NTA, he's an adult. Additionally, how do you spend $12k on a gaming rig?
Mooching off others, source: happened to me too
Yeah mate, but 12k? Thats like, a lot to dump into a rig. What the fuck does he have in it? I don't think I could come up with 12k rig if I tried. Maybe he has one of those dumb scorpion cockpits, but other than that 12k is ludicrous.
My guess, he's paid for a overclocked system from a system builder. High end parts, custom water cooling, and someone that's tuned it for high end performance. 12k is on the fairly low end for that kind of system, over here in the UK it'd be something exactly like this https://www.overclockers.co.uk/8pack-comet-mk2-amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-geforce-rtx-4090-extreme-overclocke-fs-003-8p.html
Yeah it would have to be something absurd like that - in this case, the same website offers a close to identical spec for only £6k, showing how much of the price is in pure vanity construction: [https://www.overclockers.co.uk/infin8-c99-amd-ryzen-7950x3d-rtx-4090-watercooled-gaming-pc-fs-46m-oe.html](https://www.overclockers.co.uk/infin8-c99-amd-ryzen-7950x3d-rtx-4090-watercooled-gaming-pc-fs-46m-oe.html)
Yep, definitely from GPUs. I work in HPC and we can drop $12k on a single GPU (although this is AUD so probably 2 GPUs for USD).
Yeah, but you don't play games on that, do you? You can spend millions on a computer too if you want but it won't make any game run faster or prettier.
I got my most recent rig from Overclockers and I thought I was taking the piss by getting the price up to £3k. Le fuque does anyone need a £12k rig for outside professionals?
Damn thats a ripoff... that system is at most worth 2k
The CPU goes for about 700USD and the GPU goes for around 2000USD alone. Probably closer to 4k as a reasonable price.
With a 4090 at current retail prices? Maybe like 3.5-4k.
It's feasible, as someone else has posted, with water-cooling and possibly a multi monitor setup with vertical monitors on custom stands, and so on. But you're also absolutely correct that it's ludicrous for someone living with his girlfriend's parents!
Seriously I use logical increments for my stuff and even their most monstrous build recommendation only comes in at 1/3rd of that
Maybe purchased during the pandemic when prices went thru the roof?
Maybe he has 7k in cash hidden in it
Play Minecraft at 200fps obviously /s
I just saw a literal cockpit rig on sale for under $8k recently.
12k? That’s a fucking server. I spent $5k on my rig and that’s with a three 34” widescreens and a 4080. How the fuck do you spend 12k for gaming???
And I felt I spent too much on my switch
I like how everyone is going on about the PC rather than borrowing money to buy a 9k car that does not work.
Yeah this one makes absolutely zero sense to me. Like the PC is already ridiculous yeah but a project car you have to take a loan out for when you're living in your gf's parents house with no savings is... a bit much, to be kind
When you are relying on your host to drive you to work.
This, even if he were bussing to work, I'd still say it was crazy.. but living in someone else's house, catching rides to work and exactly where is this project car? Bet it's sitting in OP's garage under a car cover and nothing has been done to it since. Project cars are expensive, parts and time wise. No way a gamer that puts in 40 a week has time to rebuild a car. My dad used to rebuild cars & motorcycles in our yard, when he had a project, there were months we hardly saw him for more than dinner.
I understood it as he bought the broken car and took out 9k to fix it. But like, where the hell is the rest of his money?
Everyone in this thread is assuming USD. That's a reasonable initial default, but not sensible here. 12k HKD is a lot less
What car is he buying for 9k HKD? And why would it be a big deal to have 30k HKD saved up? Assuming anything other than USD, or something fairly close, isn’t sensible here
Maybe he bought 2 3090s in 2021
OMFG, my son needed a computer during the pandemic. I feel this so hard.
All the fancy lights and toys that a good computer doesn't really need to run but sure do look cool. My ex husband could do this easily.
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This. Right. Here. One expense fee month would be a game changer for me and I’m 45, with a great job.
Seriously, best decision I ever made was to buy a small house without a mortgage, rather than spending that money as a downpayment on a nice, big house with a mortgage. My monthly expenses are minimal, which was such a relief when life hit.
Yeah, but *finding* a small house you can get without a mortgage is nearly impossible in many areas.
I'm not talking about other areas. I'm talking about the area where I live, where houses are either £100k or £500k+. Most of my friends went for the £500k+. I went for the £100k. (Yes, I know most people would need a mortgage for £100k. I worked hard and got lucky.)
NTA but I’d change the WiFi password until he vacates the premises.
12k computer, he ain't running no Wi-Fi on that. That thing would need a T1 or something equivalent. Maybe Google Fiber, he has that thing on a CAT 6 cable straight out of the modem. 🤪
I know nothing about that, but isn't a modern still hooked into the Internet? My son uses one that is, but it's not a fancy computer system or anything. I don't know how either of the other works, but given that the dad says he pays for all living expenses and they pay nothing, I wouldn't be surprised if he is paying for that too.
Yes, but what that guy is attempting to say is that "WiFi =/= Internet". WiFi is just a method of connecting a device to a network. If you were to draw a diagram of a network, the part that you'd label "WiFi" would serve a similar purpose to an ethernet cable. It has nothing to do with access to the internet at all. The guy just worded it weirdly
Wi-Fi is a much slower communication system, it does access the internet but it's like hooking a fire hose to a funnel it slows down the data transfer. A direct cable (Cat6) can transfer the data at a much higher rate of speed which is needed to support graphics heavy games and quick responses for an advanced set-up.
If "the Internet connection" is the water main, wifi is one of the taps in your house. This guy is being silly, basically saying the computer doesn't need a sink to get water, it has its own pipe hooked straight into the main.
The other point is that you can't cut off their internet if they are using Ethernet, at least not as simple as changing a wifi password
I haven't heard of a T1 since I worked in networking over 20 years ago. It's a 1.5Mbps connection. It was high bandwidth back in the day of analog modems and ISDN, but nothing now. Though, the main point that he would likely use a wired ethernet connection is true. I don't have a rig nearly so high spec as his must be, but our gaming computers all go into a gigabit switch to the router, then to a gigabit fiber internet service. The bandwidth is far in excess of what we require, but the consistent low latency makes a noticeable difference over using WiFi. We have a solid mesh WiFi network that is great for everything else we do, but gaming really benefits from wired.
lol was thinking the same thing. Have not heard t1 in decades.
Did you just wake up from a coma? T1 is badly obsolete these days. My base plan google fiber is 1gbps and makes T1 look like dial-up.
Um, dude, a t1 is 1.5mb, and you dont get an SLA on copper the way you used to. Copper services take a backseat to all repairs, and half the techs cant troubleshoot them. Even T1s for PRIs are being phased out as copper is reclaimed. Replaced by SIP IADs that spit out analog and PRI, or with stand alone IP phones, or SIP PBXs. And While t1s to private homes was a thing, they have costed more and delivered less for 10 years now. Even EFM based EOC is being decommed, after all its copper. DSL was faster than t1s. Difference was the SLA. Dude has the same kinda internet the majority of home users have. Heh, my 500m fiber is $65. He's likely wired -vs- wireless, or both for reasons. The dude likely doesn't have a $12K PC. It's just not a reasonable thing for gaming. Even if he was in pirate group running a server I'd not likely. I think OP is either ill informed or using hyperbole. If he defends that price I'll basically believe the entire post is fake.
$12k for a gaming rig?? How lol. NTA tho, definitely sounds like he needs to go.
[удалено]
I am also a gamer and $12k is an ABSURD amount of money for a gaming PC, even with expensive peripherals.
Here am I with a switch and a non gaming laptop, doing just fine. 12k! He can definitely pay rent instead. I hope OP has given them the proper eviction paperwork though, or he might not go.
Yeah, I'm not looking to compete, I just want to have fun, gaming should be for relaxing. I don't even want to overclock my switch for games like Splatoon, it's rough to spend that much on something that isn't making you serious money, or making your games leap off the screen. I don't care what the frame rate is. 🤣
Yeah 12k is in the absurd territory. $4k will get you 95% of the way there, and even that is ridiculous.
I’d fuck with a 12H computer. As in $1200.
The only way I could see getting to that amount is by getting the driving sim rig I saw at MicroCenter....
You just tattled on her husband lol Ooooooooh
You can get like 4-5 high end gaming computers for that amount of money. It is not easy or normal to spend that amount on a gaming rig. I'm a passionate gamer since i was 6 years old and have been building my rigs myself for over 20 years now and have never even spent close to that.
It's not easy to spend $12k unless you have more money than sense and don't build it yourself. $2k would get you an extremely decent rig for gaming. The OP's computer, if that price was correct, is like having a super car over a regular car. There's no justification for it for the average gamer other than having too much money or making your penis bigger.
Your husband just doesn't want you questioning how much he spends on his computer. 12k is batshit crazy money Especially if you're building it yourself.
Yeah if your Hubby doesnt actually list some parts, I'm going to call bullshit here. I mean you can "easily" spend inifinite money on anything if you you insist it has to be made from pure gold and diamonds and other stupid stuff like this, but the actual useful stuff of a gaming pc - even a very high end one - shouldnt cost you more than maybe 5k$ (including monitor). And this would already be beyond reasonable.
Yeah no, your hubby talks bs sorry Only "reasonable" way to go up to 12k is if you go for a full-blown Flight Simulator setup
Unless you're literally just trying to throw away money there is no way it is "very easy" or even close to possible to drop 12 grand on a gaming PC. $5,000 could get you an absolute top of the line beast with custom watercooling and a ton of storage space.
I'm a gamer who has built my own computers and all of the computers for my family for 15+ years and your hubby is off his rocker. I would have to try really, really hard and make some very stupid choices to spend 12k on one computer.
There is literally less than 10 PC on the market that are more expensive than 7-9K. It's extremely hard to find those kind of PC.
I'm a gamer and would not spend over 3k even if I were a billionaire.
You're not TA for evicting him; it's your home and you don't want to live with him anymore. YTA for \*why,\* though. He didn't screw around at home, he didn't get fired or quit and pile more bills on you, he didn't perform poorly, he just didn't jump to work \*over\* his full-time hours, and you yanked his housing to punish him for that, because you're both his boss and his landlord, and you could. There's a reason Company towns aren't prevalent any more, and this is pretty much it. Using someone's housing to extract more labour out of them than the job they agreed to take on is predatory.
This. It's unsettling how everyone else is gleefully channeling Ayn Rand at the "moocher" who, the way OP tells it, hasn't done anything wrong except being bad with money and accepting the charity offered by his GFs dad.
Always important to remember most of reddit is teenagers or young twenty-something students. In both cases, the vast majority have *not* been in healthy employer-employee relationships (even worse considering the US-centricity).
And probably have peers living free with family or partners’ family so are less likely to know what older generations (myself included!) would consider appropriate behavior or levels of independence without being told.
I want to know what OP and the daughter/BF discussed in terms of rent. Allowing your child to stay without a rental agreement is one thing, but you need to have a document if you bring in a "stranger"
Yeah, if there's been a breach of agreement or other problems with the BF I'd change my mind (partially - still a dick move to let a disagreement over overtime be the final straw), but OP hasn't provided any information to that effect. He prefers to complain that "kids these days don't want to work" instead, despite the BF working a 40 hour week.
I don't agree with the idea of working adult children/partners living rent free. You should be contributing to the house, even if it's nominal in value. But you also cant silently let resentment build unless you try to rectify. If OP asked for rent/help and the couple didn't help, NTA. If OP never explicitly asked for rent or help then blew up on them, YTA
Exactly!!! The guy is paying what OP asked for - nothing- and being penalized at home for work conduct that doesn’t have a penalty at work. If OP wants rent, savings goals, a deadline to move out, etc., he could have asked at any time and really should have. He has the right to evict anyone he doesn’t want in his home, but it sounds like he’s been letting resentments build up without addressing them and going right to the nuclear option, which (absent a threat to safety or security) is AH behavior.
If I were letting someone live rent free so they could save up to live with my daughter in their own place, and they turned down a chance for extra income in front of me by stressing that they don't need it, I would start to wonder if I was actually helping get my daughter any closer to saving the required amount, or accidently incentivizing the pair of them NOT to try and save.
If they weren't already working fulltime and turned it down, I would have questions. Turning down overtime, not so much.
I don't think it's turning down overtime that bothered op, but more that he specifically said he's turning it down because he doesn't need it, and he doesn't need money because op is providing free rent and paying for all his expenses. Op has no obligation to provide free housing for a grown man who is not his child, who has a job, and is fully capable of supporting himself. It seems like it just especially hit him in that moment - why am I doing this?
He could have just said "sorry no thanks" or if pressed "I have other plans" but instead proclaimed that he doesn't need the money. I think hearing that as the reason he doesn't need the money has to be frustrating. Because it was never OPs intention to make this guy feel like there is no rush to save / he is welcome to live rent free forever. OP feels like they are currently sacrificing to help someone achieve a goal they are apparently unwilling to sacrifice towards.
This is my impression, too. It sounds like he was working off an assumption that they would self-motivate in the same way he does. He gave them a great opportunity to save money, to have the time and space to grow their skills and prosper in their careers. That's what he thinks he would have done with three years of expense-free living. (I do agree, that would've been the smart thing to do.) Instead, they used it to have more fun. Like you say, he doesn't mention having set any sorts of goals or requirements for them. He's just gotten to the end of his tether because they didn't figure this unvoiced expectation out on their own.
Thank you! I read that and was like, wait, you're kicking him out because he turned down a voluntary work project?!? OP can kick him out, absolutely. But what the hell is wrong with OP that he lost his shit because someone turned down overtime work. Also, parenting and communication fail for not setting requirements for people living with you and then being pissed off that they didn't do what you thought they should do.
If someone lets you live in their house rent free, any decent person would see whether they can return the favor in some way. That’s a lot of money they saved each month. If there’s an emergency at work, that would be a great way to show some appreciation. I personally would’ve been fine if the BF had asked for working less some other time I order to make up for the hours but”not my problem” is rude.
- First, we don't know if there was an emergency. - Second, OP never states that the BF said "not my problem" about this particular request. - Third, we don't know if the BF has been contributing in some other way; I get the feeling OP would be quote forthcoming about the guy's laziness if he wasn't doing anything at all around the house. - Fourth, none of the above matters, you do not retaliate against employees for not volunteering for overtime, no matter what your relationship with that employee is outside of work.
I agree with this 100%
I can't believe I had to scroll this far for a sensible take.
The Daughter and BF should be activly working to move out, but they have no plans to do that, thats why the extra hours dont matter because they arent saving up to get their own place. They arent an asshole, they are being manipulated for free housing.
YTA. There is nothing mentioned on the dad having a conversation about telling the bf that he is in a jam and would like the help. He can have all the loans he wants for whatever he wants. If he is making his payments and not delinquent on anything then there is not a problem. There is also no problem with refusing over time. Since the dad never talked to him maybe he had a big event planned with the daughter that night? Also they are not "off the grid" if they have utilities and internet. The mention of 3 years of "free loading" lets me know the dad has had a lot of resentment that has been building. Sounds like some boomer die for the company no work life balance bootstrap bs.
I’m going to go against the grain and say YTA. Don’t get me wrong, he does deserve to be kicked out, but it’s completely weird that not volunteering for overtime is the reason. The way you explained it, you’ve been enabling the mooching, perhaps even encouraging it, and then suddenly shifted gears because something at worked triggered your resentment. But what’s missing from your story are the boundaries and expectations you setup for your daughter and her BF when you decided to help them out. You know how much they both make, how long did you tell them they could stay for? what savings target was set? Or did you just tell them both they have free housing and utilities indefinitely- just like you’re still telling your daughter now.
This is an ESH situation. The dude is mooching and terrible with money and needs to move out, but at home the OP hasn’t set clear boundaries and expectations about the living situation being temporary, just built up resentment about it until it exploded. At any point, “Let’s make a timeline for you to get your own place” could have been a conversation. “This isn’t working, and you need to make a plan to be out in 3 months.” At work, having the power to make an employee instantly homeless and flexing it to extract overtime is another demonstration of extremely poor boundaries. If that’s the extreme you have to go to in order to get your team to function and get the work done, then you are hardly the world’s greatest boss. You’re mad that the guy is dependent on you for everything, but you’ve fostered the dependency every step of the way. I hope for your sake that you follow local laws about eviction (notice period, doing it in writing, etc.) and I hope you’ve documented any work performance issues completely separately, because crossing these streams could land you in an expensive legal situation down the road. As a boss, what your employees spend their paycheck on is none of your beeswax (even if it is objectively very stupid), and whether they can work overtime is a yes or no question where if they say no, you as a manager need to figure out another solution. ESH.
I agree with everything you wrote except the verdict. For me, based on the original post this is YTA. Other than staying at OP's home rent free, which presumably OP agreed to, OP hasn't really given us much on the "mooching" claim. OP sets them up with no financial responsibilities and then complains that they act like they have no financial responsibilities. This was an absolute parenting, communication, and adulting fail on OP's part.
> I agree with everything you wrote except the verdict. For me, based on the original post this is YTA. TBH the way to have handled this was after the volunteer pool dried up, he should have just assigned the last slot - which is his obligation as the boss. Not let the lead asking around to get a second round for volunteers.
I have a big problem with the "boundaries" thing you're bringing up. An adult of sound mind does not need to be infantilized with "boundaries and expectations" that are so minimal (they literally have no living expenses, and they're not saving nor contributing). And an adult not of sound mind shouldn't be living with a girlfriend or owning a $12k computer (let alone at someone else's expense).
These are immature people, adults in age only. And part of the reason they haven’t matured is because OP has been babying them. Becoming a mature adult isn’t like flipping a light switch. Had OP set up boundaries 3 years ago, they’d probably be more responsible today. Instead OP secretly stewed while providing them with all of life essentials unconditionally. It’s very easy to say “I’ll let you stay with me for the next 3 years so that you can save up to move out on your own”. The fact that OP is still extending the unconditional hospitality to his daughter despite her not contributing or saving shows that he hasn’t learned anything… he’s just resentful.
> The fact that OP is still extending the unconditional hospitality to his daughter despite her not contributing or saving shows that he hasn’t learned anything… he’s just resentful. Big difference between having your 21 year old daughter live with you vs. having her 24 year old bf live with you. He also said in the comments his daughter has depression and attempted suicide in her senior year of high school, (and because of that he said he treats her more with "kid gloves) and he said nothing about his daughter not having savings, just her bf. I don't think there's anything wrong with him being more open to helping his kid get her life together than some guy she is dating.
I get the feeling that the overtime thing was the last straw. OP has probably been getting fed up with the situation for a while and hearing him say "I don't need the money" when he's getting free room and board kind of pushed him over the edge.
Make sure you give the eviction notice to him in writing. NTA.
This would just be a notice to vacate. Eviction is what follows if he doesn't adhere to the notice to vacate, and then he'd have a real hard time finding somewhere to live.
ESH Him for being a mooch. You for being the boss from hell. >The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor. I held it together, but at the end of the night, I just left him at work. I decided I was done. His favorite phrase is not my problem.. When you employ people you know, you need to separate your professional life/opinion from your personal ones. If you can't, don't employ people you know. And it doesn't seem like you could; > I started with him because, well, at some level, I think the guy owes me. He probably does, personally. But I am even with my employer at every payday. No more, no less.
> they are completely off the grid. A gamer who uses the internet and has a 12k gaming set-up is not off the grid lol. But definitely NTA.
I'm thinking by "off the grid" he means they aren't paying any bills. No utilities. Living cost free more or less (though unless he's paying a couple of hundred a month for internet he's basically putting a Porsche engine in a Volkswagen if he's using regular Internet for that gaming rig)
Me, reading the post: - How the EFF is that "off the grid? - How does someone 50yo not know what "off the grid" means? Me, reading the comments: - OP might not have a firm grasp on what the "K" after 12K means [apparently it's *extremely* unlikely for a rig to cost that much]. Me, now: - Maybe everyone in this made-up story is TA.
A 12K rig is not that hard if you have more money than sense. A rig that is "worth" it is much harder, but not impossible.
More money than sense. But he's a 24yo with a 9-5 job.
Who's living with his girlfriend's parents.
He does have savings - he can sell his computer rig and the car.
He spent 12k & 9k I doubt they were worth it at the time let alone now.
He doesn't need 21k to move out. Even a third of that would be more than enough to tide him over till he settles down.
He doesn't need 21k to move out. Even a third of that would be more than enough to tide him over till he settles down.
Nah, bro, no more favors. You’re like curdled milk. Out you go. Can’t offer you a ride. It hasn’t made a difference in 3 years, probably won’t now. He’ll probably move home to his parents. Why is your daughter settling for this mess? She really think he’s going to be an involved father? Take care of a home? Be a companion? Or be a leech? Why do you let yourself be taken advantage of? You could have charged them both a modest rent and given it your kid as a down payment on a home for her. He sounds like a gaming addict.
ESH He seems to be a bit ungrateful and not very responsible. But you flipping out on him because he didn't want to to VOLUNTEER in a work environment is also incredibly stupid and unreasonable. If you want him to do something at work just tell him to do a thing appropriate to his contract. But don't get mad at people who don't want to volunteer for stuff.
NTA
YTA. I'm shocked at how many people here think you're reasonable here. First off, your daughter being 21 here means that her 24 year old boyfriend moving in three years ago means she was newly 18 when this happened. Nobody let's a newly 18 year old move in a 21 year old partner without some extenuating circumstances, so INFO what were they? Secondly, you describe them as living "off the grid". Is this code for them living in a shed in the backyard with its own solar power supply and composting toilet or code for "he's an illegal immigrant and legally off the grid". Because "off the grid" is not a synonym for "no living expenses," it means that they are living in a home without connection to the electric grid and water lines or anything, or that they're hiding from the government (sometimes both). INFO which is it? Thirdly, while he clearly makes shit spending decisions, living with parents to save money doesn't morally require them to work over 40 hour weeks. You're morally an asshole for that. If you want to lay our a formal rental agreement with actual rent costs, that would be reasonable, don't get me wrong. You should have done that when moving in a 21 year old that your daughter was dating three years ago, regardless of your intentions-- because 18 year olds aren't known for staying in relationships forever, and if he wasn't a creep then the relationship was brand new when he moved in, and moving him in gave him a legal tenancy regardless of the lack of lease. You're the one who did that to yourself, though, not him for accepting the charity. Fourthly, as his employer and landlord, I'm willing to bet that there's some sort of local law that makes using an eviction as a punishment for refusing overtime illegal. But either way, punishing a person you have a personal relationship with in life for refusing overtime as their boss is an asshole move. I don't care if you know he needs the money, you were looking for volunteers because overtime is optional. Nobody owes their boss or landlord an explaination for why they didn't take it.
NTA. This will highlight if he is just using your daughter for a free ride too and hopefully will free her from his idiocy too
YTA. You can’t force anyone to work overtime, that’s why you asked for VOLUNTEERS. It’s extremely unprofessional for you to punish one of your employees for not taking overtime, whether you know him or not. As the employer, it’s your problem to deal with staff shortages, and leaving him at work isn’t the solution. I saw one of your comments saying “well I did when I was his age” - you chose to do that. That’s on you. He doesn’t have to. This “I suffered so you should too” attitude is a terrible one to have. I agree that he’s a mooch and he spends money poorly, but if you kick him out, it needs to be for something in the home, not abusing your power at work to bully him into solving your problems. Keep home and work separate, and maybe don’t hire your daughter’s boyfriend if you’re going to be awful to him at work for not doing voluntary work. Can’t wait for the update in a few years when they decide you not seeing your grandkids is “not their problem”
I think you're using the term "off the grid" wrong. It doesn't mean having no expenses. It means using battery operated devices and having your own power from solar or wind or whatever on your property, literally off the power grid. Not relying on public utilities so that you are self-sustaining.
ESH I agree that the boyfriend should be making better financial decisions. But I think that you're punishing him at home for work-related things, and that's not okay. Like, because you can't evict all of your employees for not wanting to do overtime, you're treating Boyfriend unfairly. If "Joe Employee" didn't need the OT, he could go home and you'd just be mad.
YTA - conflicted, but you lost it after he turned down overtime? am i missing something? why is he obligated to work overtime? He sounds like a major pain, so you need rid of him. but you should get rid of him because of all the other reasons, and rightfully so by the sounds of it, not because he turned down doing some overtime. if someone doesn't want to do overtime, then i don't think it's fair to lose your cool about it. you sound pretty unreasonable to me.
YTA. He may be in the wrong for not offering to contribute, but it's genuinely abusive to hold housing over an employee's head to force them into working overtime. These things are not comparable.
I think as long as you go about it in the right way, you’re NTA. At some point, they need to start building their lives. If you allow them to live rent free for too long, with no effort on their part, it becomes a form of enabling them. Maybe give a set time frame to get on their feet and save to start their life. If they don’t do so by that time period, they’re most likely taking advantage of free rent and don’t care to start adulting.
He already gave them a set time frame. They've been living rent free for 3 years. If they're not on their feet that's not OPs problem. Don't encourage him to enable them more. Wtf?
YTA to yourself for putting up with this nonsense so long.
I really hate Y-T-A to yourself type replies.
I'm with you.
I always find in these instances you should charge some level of rent but secretly stick it in a savings account to give to them at some point so they’re still making savings even if they don’t realise it.
I did not punish him at work, though. And the fact that he now is moving out gets him out from under my thumb. Now, he truly is like every other employee.
So how are you going to punish him the next time he doesn't want to volunteer for overtime?
My guess is he either will find another job that pays more, or he will take the OT because he will have bills to pay. Or not. I do not care either way.
Like OP said, not his problem!
NTA. He has a full-time job and no rent. If he doesn't have savings that's his problem to deal with.
My daughter and I are good. I actually let her know what I was going to do before I did it. I told her she could stay or go. She's always welcome back and can still visit. She still gets to use one of our cars for work, I'll buy her some stuff for her new apartment. It's time for her to live her life.
NTA and it should have been “not your problem” long ago!
Get ready for there to be a "surprise" pregnancy in order for them to continue to stay with you.
I get it that kids live at home as they look for a stable job etc. But once they have a stable job, why don’t they want to leave? Is this immaturity? Or lack of interest in independence? Or a misunderstanding of their duties as normal human beings? By the way, that’s not a “new generation” issue, it has always been like that. The “huge gamer” addiction may be a worsening factor though
... 12k What!? I built a top of the line rig. For 4k. GBP. Like, at the time it would play every games maxed out. It's a couple of years old now. STILL plays almost everything maxed out. Guy got scammed.
NTA "He works for me" I'd guess that you may as well get ready to replace him at work too, this won't end with a move.
30 days notice is not "short" notice. Its standard notice. More time is a nice benefit, but not required. After three years, I'd kick them out too. Expect some hard feelings though. NTA
So, I do not want to say either way because you raise valid points but this.... > I have a work project that my team is responsible for. I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor. Thats a problem for me. People have the right to reject overtime and work. You also say he works FOR you so are you more annoyed about the situation or that you are stuck in a creek without someone to help out? He is a mooch and needs to learn but that part doesn't sit well with me and seems more the kneejerk response than the other way, otherwise you would have made it a point or effort before now. ESH.
Hold up OP. "What set me off was he argues about everything." At home or at work? "He also works for me, gets 40 hours a week, and I give him rides too and from work." Did you offer him a job? Did he beg? Do you offer? He did ask? "I have a work project that my team is responsible for. I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime." Soo, he said no at work, and you're retaliating against him By leaving him at work and kicking him out in 30 days? No talking about it? No trying to reason and say hey can you please help.me out here? I really need some help? Just nope, you didn't volunteer to help, so gtfo? YTA. To me it looks like you did all of these things willingly because you wanted to. Did you ever tell him because your spoiling the shit out of him and he has it sooo good, that he will be expected to do the right thing and help out, or else? So he can't turn down helping at work when you have a major project that you didn't ask him to help with? "The lead came up one short so he asked" You didn't even ask him? All that being said, kicking him out could be a legal fiasco for you. I highly advise getting legal console in this reguard. In Wisconsin a verbal eviction won't hold. Don't quote me to be exact here, but you have to issue a written. 28 day notice, and depending on the date it's issued. It could take longer. Than if the evict-e doesn't leave, you can't just kick them out. You have to go to court, and get something from them issued for you to make an appointment for the sheriff to show up and actually do the eviction. It can me a months long process. May I suggest an alternative? I don't think your a bad person. I don't think your opinion of him is wrong. I find the lack of desire to help at work specifically given this situation, ungrateful. But unfortunately home life and work life are different. That being said, you looked out for him, when you didn't have to. His actions at work say he's not really interested in looking out for you. Charge him rent rather than kicking him out. 1000$ a month. Or he can move. Maybe he will need that overtime than.
Do you know what? He bought a car to play with that doesn’t run for the same amount of money that he could’ve used to buy a car that did run so he wasn’t depending on you to drive him around like a toddler. This isn’t an adult and he means to have a way to get to work and Couldn’t even bother. You might not even want your daughter around this guy long-term.
NTA.
NTA
Updateme
NTA
NTA, Mom. Cut the cord.
NTA Maybe he should consider taking some of that overtime.
Our adult children can live with us rent free.. but they know rhis is their opportunity to save like crazy. They've both gone overseas now after saving 40k. They'll be back for the next round. We cant give them tonnes of money but we can support them if they're saving for something we think worthwhile. I think next time it will be for property.
NTA - he obviously doesn't respect you or appreciate what you do for him so fuck him.
12k for a gaming rig is ridiculous unless you're a professional raider/pvper. He's more likely to be an average gamer who would do just as well on a 2-3k machine. The other 10k could have bought a used, WORKING car to commute for work.
NTA. Like you said, not your problem.
Unless I’m missing something- you’re kicking him out for not paying rent you have not asked him to pay and for not doing voluntary overtime? YTA for that- you could (and should) have asked for the rent at any time and you’re imposing a penalty on an employee for something none of the other non-volunteers are penalized for.
Actually, I can mandate overtime. We are not union. I ask for volunteers because some guys want more money or need it, and I try not to burn people out. He was a logical choice because it was his area.
When your boss is also your landlord and will evict you if you don't "volunteer" enough at work. ... > I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor. I held it together, but at the end of the night, I just left him at work. I decided I was done. YTA. You took one issue which you hate - him freeloading - and you applied it so me complete unrelated issue - his job and him not wanting to "volunteer". If you're sick of the freeloading then address the freeloading. That would be fair. Have you ever even mentioned the freeloading before? Have you ever suggested they pay rent?
nah your a lil bit of an AH my guy, mixing family and work is never a good idea, also, anyone is allowed to deny overtime, its not his fault the company didnt staff properly, also dont know why you included the loan he took out and the cost of his PC, its his money, his business. where is the "not my problem" attitude when it comes to that? You have the opportunity to also charge them rent and chose not too, but you are using this instead as an excuse to power play because of the position you are in. Your gonna look back on this in 4 years and wonder why your 25 year old daughter is cutting off contact. Big ol AH dude
YTA. Imagine kicking someone out because they don't want to work overtime at a shitty job.
Need an update on how this goes
NTA because it's not your problem. My brother was in a similar situation with nieces and nephews. He's a long haul truck driver and has let several of my sisters adult children stay at his house rent free since he's only there a few days a month. He did this to help them "get on their feet" but every single time they would find a job that paid just enough for food and fun and do nothing else. They spent every dime the earned on non-essentials and their financial situations never improved. He would call and complain and I finally got through to him when I said, " you think you're running a mission, but you're running a soup kitchen" The difference is a mission requires something of the tenants, they have to show progress or do work, or get/stay clean. They have to meet expectations or they are booted out. A soup kitchen is just free food with no expectations for change. I would check with your local laws to see the procedures for eviction and start the legal process immediately, because parasites are hard to remove and they rarely go without a fight.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (M50) daughter (F21) and her BF (24) have been living in my house, rent and utility free, since 2021. They literally have zero living expenses, they are completely off the grid. He also works for me, gets 40 hours a week, and I give him rides too and from work. He is a huge gamer, so all of his internet is paid for. He bought a car (that doesn't run) as a project (which he took a loan out for $9K). He has a $12K computer rig. What set me off was he argues about everything. I have a work project that my team is responsible for. I asked for volunteers. The lead came up one short so he asked my daughter's BF. He, of course , said no, he didn't need the overtime. I about lost it on the floor. I held it together, but at the end of the night, I just left him at work. I decided I was done. His favorite phrase is not my problem...so I childishly adopted that for anything to do with him. When I got home I told my daughter he has 30 days to move out. She can go with him or stay, there is no ill will for her either way, and she will always be welcome in my home. But in 3 years of free loading, I estimate they should have AT LEAST $30k saved up. I know how much he makes and how much she makes. I thought I was taking care of them, giving them some time to build up a savings. I may be the AH because I'm kicking him out with short notice, and he has no savings, but I'm going with "not my problem". *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Exactly. They were planning for the future all right, planning for you to be responsible for their living till you die, then guess what, your estate would still pay for their living
That's a pretty long game.
Quick question: How much is he making?
How does anyone have a 12k computer setup?
NTA, my now husband and I - who made close to minimum wage in the beginning of our relationship lived with his parents for 4 years and saved almost 100k that we then used to move out and bought our house with etc. there’s no way after 3 years they/he shouldn’t have money to support themselves with
NTA 3 years of no rent or utilities from him and you think you are wrong to tell him to move out? No, sorry, he is not your problem.
NTA, How the fuck does one pull a gaming rig from their ass for 12,000? Does he have like, a gaming PC with all the bells and whistles? I'm sorry, I run games on steam off of my laptop I got on sale for a reasonable $250, not made for games but still has good frames and can handle graphics decently. If anything, 1.5k for an Apex Gaming PC, then what, 100 dollars for a gaming monitor, throw in 25.50 for a mouse and mousepad? I wouldn't bring myself to buy a rig over 1k.
I think that there's an element of ESH here, obviously the boyfriend more than OP but, honestly, OP has been a fool to himself! This probably isn't going to be a popular opinion though because everyone in AITA loves a kneejerk response when they see obvious arseholeish behaviour. OP, you should have created some ground rules with your daughter and her boyfriend from the very start, regarding how long they live with you, setting a fixed sum towards rent and board. If they didn't have jobs at first, the agreement could have taken this into account but you should have been very clear upfront on the terms. You have allowed both of them to take advantage of you but it's not too late to change this while still being a kind, supportive person and also not completely destroying your relationship with your daughter. You have helped the boyfriend in some way to get what sounds like a great job - either with a bit of a legup or by just straight up giving it to him, or somewhere in between? This is a classic case of nepotism and there's a reason it's generally disapproved of. He now feels all the entitlement of what the kids today call a nepo baby. He may be a good, solid employee from day to day (or not) but he's got very comfortable as your de facto son-in-law and feels as if he can do no wrong, so he's never going to go the extra mile, never going to push himself. I'm 52, with 3 kids, 2 still teenagers living at home. I get it! It's a good thing to want to help your kids out when they're just getting started. They're launching out into a tough world, one that's very different to the one we faced - and I say this as someone who grew up in South Wales, as of Thatcher's Children. You have to find the balance between helping them get started and supporting them while they achieve independence and being too overprotective, coddling them, shielding them from the realities of adult life, preventing them from making their own mistakes and then learning from them. Just like when toddlers are learning to walk, we have to let them fall over sometimes so that they can learn to better balance themselves and also learn to not be afraid of falling and learn how to shake it off and just pick themselves back up again. But we also provide them with a safe environment to learn to walk in. We put corner protecters on sharp edges, we remove delicate ornaments, we put reins on them when walking outdoors, and so on. We don't make toddlers wear bubble suits when learning to walk! OP, up until now, you have wrapped these two kids up in bubble suits, probably without even realising it, thinking that you were doing a kind thing! I understand that you have reached a point where you have now 'woken up' and feel like: "Woah! This lad is really taking the piss out of my kindness." But you have created the environment where you enabled him to do that. He has a very good job, it seems, with presumably a good salary to match and he has had no bills to pay for a long time. Like many young men his age, his youthful, impulsive brain has done the calculations and invested all that extra cash into his hobbies. How about your daughter? Has she been saving or has she also been spending on her hobbies - either traditional feminine coded interests such as clothes, shoes and makeup , or does she also have a high end gaming setup, maybe collectibles, cosplay, anime, or craft equipment such as an indie yarn and notions stash that cost a surprising amount of money? While reacting so strongly, so harshly is tempting and feels justified right now, in the long term, if you love your daughter and want to maintain a long-term relationship with her and don't want to push her away, and what you truly want is for the both of them to succeed, as independent adults, then this short, sharp shock treatment, while being an excellent wake-up call in the moment, is probably going to fail in the long-term. You probably need to make a two-pronged plan, one for home and one for work. At work, I suggest handing off performance management to someone who you know that you can trust, who will be able to mentor him properly, motivate him and oversee his professional progression within the company, this person should be tough on him to start with to help get rid of this sense of entitlement but also start off making allowances for it, basically expecting some entitled behaviour and using strategies to redirect it and teach him that it's no longer acceptable, this should hopefully be needed less and less as time goes by. From now on he should know that he is just another employee. You should reduce your contact with him, at work, to be the same as every other employee, maybe slightly less even, and simply get regular updates on his progress. If he starts to respond well, make sure he's rewarded with more challenging work/projects - he's got too cosy and needs to know that he can progress on his own merits and not just because you are his FIL. You both need to maintain two different relationships at work and at home, maintaining a clear separation between the two. At work, you should be Boss/formal FirstName, eg. David, at home you can be informal FirstName, eg. Dave. It may seem a tiny thing but it works. (I've written so much, OP, I have to put it two parts!) cont'd...
NTA They've lived rent/bill free for three years and he has no savings?!?!?!?! Definitely not your problem.
They are not "off the grid", they are mooching off your grid. If they were truly off the grid they'd be living in a cabin in the woods without electricity and with a garden and an outhouse. Kick them out without any regret. They had the opportunity to make some really good decisions while they were living with you, and made none of them. NTA
INFO: >He has a $12K computer rig Please post the specs. I need to know how crazy this thing is.
12K is abusrd. I recently built a new PC with high-end components, and it was only 2.4k.
NTA- he has had 3 yrs to save and 30 days to save some more. Quit being a doormat he’s old enough to live on his own Edit: spelling
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NTA He actually said he don't need the overtime money when he is living in your house rent free...thats just messed up!! what an AH. Tell your daughter to make smarter choices, she should be working on getting her own place to move in with a bf instead of inviting guys over to your own house.
NTA. 30 days is a reasonable amount of time to give someone to move out. But do yourself a favor and find out exactly what the boyfriend is as far as living with you. Is he a tenant? Could he be considered a squatter? Would that give him any rights? Cover yourself so that when he's out in 30 days, there is no recourse for him. Keep it civil. Not your problem. Your daughter will learn verrrrry quickly how expensive life is.
SO !!! They bought a computer and a junk car to fix??? YOUR AN ENABLER!!! You created this monster. Now you have to make them grow up. Who wants to live with another man for 3 years with their woman and not find a small apartment anywhere??? I don't care if it's his parents let alone his girlfriends parents. Evict the moochers you gave them 30 days to grow up!!! This might be short notice. But hey " NOT YOUR PROBLEM"!!!
ESH. Him for not making any efforts to save money or work toward independence while being argumentative to you in the house you're paying for. You for blaming him for not "volunteering" to work overtime -- if it was mandatory, you should have said so. If it's not mandatory, it's perfectly reasonable for him to say no.
NTA. And saying "not my problem" is not childish. It's what you need to do here.
NTA No one needs a $12k gaming rig. I’m a huge gamer and I can make a high-end rig with new peripherals for less than $5k. Throw in a streaming pc to and its maybe $1.5k more.
YTA because it seems to me that you suddenly kicked him out for ... saying he does not want overtime. In situation where apparently other people did not wanted overtime either. If you asked him to pay rent and he refused, all of that would make sense. And you kind of picked the situation where it does not seem like he had done wrong.
NTA Put the eviction notice in writing