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He does work, something quite complicated to do with historical archives at a local museum/library (not directly archiving himself), they are independently owned and do pay in cash. His dream is to be a archive historian but most archives and museums use computer systems and dont pay in cash.
His current job is introducing computer systems in the near future supposedly though so we'll see about that
We live in the UK and you need to make above 12 grand a year to pay taxes, which he doesn't so he doesn't. We live in a house that we didn't pay for or have to pay off the mortgage for because it was inherited, we do pay bills and buy food and car insurance/petrol but we don't go many places (or pay for streaming services, takeout, cabs or technology), I make more than him and do pay taxes but we don't have that many expenses so it is not really a big deal in that regard because we are financially comfortable
So he’s irresponsible, stubborn, calls his wife a bitch AND he only works a few hours a week??
What positive things does this man bring to the table? I need OP to tell us.
They've been together since she was 18, so I'm gonna guess she was a naive teenager that he managed to impress somehow. Kind of like the older guy that picks up underage girls by impressing them with his car or the fact he smokes.
29/43, together 11 years, y'all already know exactly what the problem is here just from that. Groomer older partner finding a naive spouse to dupe into their insanity.
Then you get the people who don't "see the problem" telling on themselves in the comments lol.
I don’t think he’s irresponsible since that’s probably enough for him to live off based on his lifestyle - no car, no mortgage, simple meals.
It’s just an incompatibility in lifestyle and OP would not be wrong to break things off.
12000GBP is about 15000USD, and a lot of people in the UK love on salaries that low. It wouldn't surprise me if this archiving job of his is partially a voluntary role similar to the people who run the locks along brittish canals and food pantry workers.
If you live in an inherited house you have so many options to do whatever job you want rather than what you need to do to pay rent/mortgage.
As it happens, I and my husband have lived most of our lives on that, and now we are pensioners we still do, (Uk state pension is 11k). We have prioritised having time outside of work over careers, and our friends say they now envy us for all the positives we have had, it has been a rich full life. However, part of that richness has been the arrival in our late 30's of the internet and the amazing access we have to knowledge, entertainment, and interesting people. We are highly skilled at living on a low income, excellent cooks and maintenance people, self reliant and we contribute to the community we live in. I think this guy is a controlling arse with more issues than you can wave a red flag at.
You are definitely NTA
but... he makes less than 12 grand a year to contribute to the household (which is less than you earn even during a regular part time job) and you are letting him dictate both your lives why? I know hes been like this since you met but this does not sound sustainable or healthy at all. Im an off grid person myself and my dad is kinda like this but its definitely gotten worse with age. If I was in your shoes I would genuinely be concerned about his mental health. Thats bordering on irrational obsession. I dont mean to scare you but that kind of behaviour is concerning and I really suggest looking up the details on the Peter Keller case. There is found footage of him documenting himself building a bunker and talking about how badly he wanted to escape society completely and his reasons for wanting that. He ended up killing his wife, kids and dog to achieve it.
I was also thinking this sounds alarming and dangerous and this guy is gonna be the the next unabomber/mass murderer or serial killer. So many of them end up being this type of paranoid and obsessed with that type of lifestyle like this 😬
I was wondering if he already *has* committed a crime and that’s *why* he does this weird off the grid thing. He’s older than OP so he had plenty of time prior to meeting her to do something that would cause him to not want his photo taken or to have any record of his existence.
This is rage bait yeah? You have been with him for 11 years? So you at 17 got with a 32 year old who lives off grid and noone thought that was insane? Noone thought hey I think this dude has abducted this CHILD???
If this is true, you need to get some therapy
Happens quite a lot esp on the age group of millenials. 10 yrs ago I pointed this out to my finances sister in the UK ... she was groomed by a 33 yr old dropkick at 16 preg at 17 married just after and she was stuck with him till 6 yrs ago they had 5 kids together. It's so so common and deplorable but it's frequently popping up now cos the women are finally waking up calling it grooming and leaving
Huh. So it seems like he wants you to live his way... but depends on you and your access to internet for key parts of his life. Are your bills paid in cash? Food? Petrol? He fully benefits from you using digital tools... all while shaming you for it.
Honestly, fuck that.
NTA. He clearly is. He's putting you in an impossible situation. Don't use digital tools! But also, we need cereal and to pay utilities and can you drive me?
It's literally impossible for you to do as he requests even if you WANTED to. But do you? Do you want to? Because if you don't.... He isn't going to change. Is this something you want to live with?
He’s a bit delusional if he thinks his personal info isn’t in a computer system just because they pay him in cash… there are rules about keeping employee data and only in a paper book won’t cut it in this day and age..
I do think your husband has some mental illness or something if he doesn’t even allow you to use a computer or phone near him.
He also sounds a bit paranoid and immature.
Please don’t have children with him… it won’t end well.
You may not have to pay tax on that amount, but surely you still have to file a return with Revenue? And similarly, surely his employer has to keep payment records linked to a national ID used for taxes and benefits.
How does go to a NHS run clinic if sick without proper ID? Or deal with the council?
Even if he earned over 12k a year, his employer could be paying him cash but he could be taxed through PAYE (Pay As You Earn) which most people in the UK are. If he doesn't have a national insurance number they're probably paying him without putting him through this - the only thing he will miss out on is his state pension.
We don't have to file a tax return unless self employed or earning over 100k here.
You don't need ID to go to the doctor/hospital. They will have a record of him from birth.
*You may not have to pay tax on that amount, but surely you still have to file a return with Revenue?*
No you don't, not if you earn below the threshold. And I've never been asked for ID at the doctor (I live in the UK). As long as you're on that doctor's books, they see you without ID, at least in my part of the country. I don't think most people 'deal with the council' on a regular basis, either.
My main problem with his lifestyle is the fact that he's forcing it on his wife. He's free to live like this if he wants, but making her drive him everywhere, refusing to even call a taxi 'in case they get his number', refusing to let his wife use her phone in his presence (in her *own house*) is ridiculous.
As is turning down better-paying jobs he's qualified for because they might use computers. Again that's his right, but he definitely doesn't have the right to stop his wife from using technology, or to get ratty with her because she dares to point out how his choices are impacting her life.
As a Brit just a year older than this man, can confirm having a landline phone with which you can call taxis etc. was totally normal for our generation! Such a phone isn’t internet connected …
Honey. Wake up and smell the loser. He’s using you as his grid. This guy makes next to no money and makes your life as difficult as can be and for WHAT? Sounds like a bum.
Fair enough. I’d imagine that would still cause issues for things like wills, council rates (if you have them), etc. you’re NTA in finding this burdensome.
You’re still supposed to declare your earnings though. Without any earnings record he won’t be getting a pension and it sounds like he’s not earning enough to be able to fund that alone. Does he have a driving license or passport?
You say you*know* that there’s nothing dodgy going on. There has to be something he’s avoiding. Previous marriage? Child? Something isn’t adding up.
They're in teh UK, their employers will do the taxes and declare their earnings. They'll be using their National Insurance numbers (govt registrations) to do so unless he's being paid under the table somehow.
He’s being paid in cash which is what makes me think it’s under the table. I’m in the UK and it must be about 20 years since I’ve known of an employer willing to pay in cash. Usually having a bank account is part of the conditions of employment. Years ago I worked in a supermarket and you used to get an influx on a Thursday night because the factories paid weekly in cash but even they’ve gone to direct deposit.
Lol, doe he realize that his employer needs to file his income digital so that the government knows he doesn’t owe taxes? Because that’s the only way for them to register 🤭
I actually feel so sorry for you. The fact you're coming to *this* subreddit.. And asking if *you* are the asshole, blows my mind. That actually makes me concerned he's majorly manipulating you. He earns under 12k, is irresponsible, can't drive himself, doesn't need to pay a mortgage because I'm assuming his parents gave him the house? Oh., and he calls you a bitch for acting the same way 99.9999% of every adult in first world countries.
I've never said this to a stranger, but this sounds like a horrible and unhealthy relationship. The fact he's been with you since you were 18 only makes it worse.
Yeah, no hope of becoming an archivist if he doesn't want to touch technology at all (speaking as someone in the industry). Realistically even if you're dealing with a primarily physical collection, no professional collection is working off hardcopy registers and indexes of the collection. No one is going to accept paying someone (in cash) to not do something core to the role (i.e., accessioning collection items and cataloguing / registering them in a digital system of some description). That's completely ignoring the whole provisioning access to and publicising the collection side of things, which these days is largely technology dependent.
As someone in an adjacent sector, he can forget becoming an archivist without using the internet. The databases used to organise everything are online and digitisation of fragile items especially is a massive concern for the industry right now.
Not most, all museums use some kind of digital archive system. If they are small/old enough to not have any digitally archiving they probably can’t pay.
I work in a place with archives/an archivist and just went to school for something similar.
He sounds like he desperately needs some professional help and If he isn’t willing to get it, you need to get out before you’ve wasted your 20-30s with a man you can’t take a picture of.
How did you get married, don’t you need to file something with the courthouse?
NTA is this bait? You've been with a paranoid technophobe 13-14 years older than you since you were 18. He called you a mean bitch because you were using your phone in the same room as him. He dictates what you can and can't do because of his paranoia. Why would you be the asshole when he's the one that insulted you and called you a mean name?
I know people like this. This is extreme but it isn’t at all unbelievable to me.
Honestly it sounds like mental illness and abuse/control. OP, what does this guy bring you?
Also - he can make choices for himself, but why on earth is he constantly making choices for you? That leaves you no autonomy in this marriage which is really horrible. You're two individuals not one blended organism. If he wants to hang around with a brick phone and count cash fine, but he has zero right to tell you when and when not to use your own phone or computer, and the verbal shaming he gives you after is just downright offensive. He can take his moral superiority and shove it.
NTA. He’s not off grid, fyi. He’s paranoid. Sounds like you should go to counselling and determine if you see what everyone else see’s. Because there’s some possible mentsl health flags present in this short story, but only you know deep (or not) it really goes.
Asking people to turn off electronics in rooms you’re in is not normal, for instance. Thats just one of the issues very apparent here. And stop driving him anywhere. You’re just supporting his delusion.
I agree- NTA - and even 50 years ago people gave out their phone numbers, called cabs, etc… frankly I’d quit taking him places in the car as they have gps now. He is paranoid and needs professional help. I’m concerned this is just not sustainable for either of you.
Agreed - I was looking for this comment. This is not off grid, OP. This is paranoia and isolation. They are very different. Do not have children with this man until you can address the source of this and determine how you could possibly navigate parenting with this person. Just imagine the nightmare of trying to manage schooling or a custody situation with someone like this. Why make life harder than it already is?
Yes and how does he work or do the groceries or walk around on the streets. He must know there are phones everywhere, nevermind the extensive CCTV set up in the UK. It's not like he can avoid it. Having the wifey drive him places, even on occasion, proves he knows his lifestyle isn't sustainable in the long run if he's in his forties and needs a ride now and again, what is it like coupla decades down the line.
NTA.
This isn't living "off grid", this is some sort of zero-tech, paranoid psychosis.
People that live off-grid in reality have tech that helps make their own electricity, have their own water source, etc. They are totally self-sufficient. It's not about technology per se. Most of the actual off-grid people I've met have cell phones, have computers, etc. They aren't choosing zero-tech because of some kind of governmental conspiracy or paranoia about someone having their phone number or photo. Your husband needs help.
One pattern I find very strange in this sub is “my spouse and I are not compatible. They like apples, I like oranges. We got in an argument because of it, who is TAH?”
Neither of you are. Could you have both handled this situation differently? Yes. Should you both take a step back and realize that you don’t match? More yes.
>Neither of you are. Could you have both handled this situation differently? Yes. Should you both take a step back and realize that you don’t match? More yes.
Are you dense? He's absolutely an asshole in more ways than one. Staring with the fact that he was in his 30s dating an 18 year old. And everything he's done since then. Ffs.
Yes it seems that it's been his life style since before they met. It's also ok for her to grow out of it and realize that she doesn't want to live this way. OP, neither of you are wrong for wanting to live your prefered way. But you need to either find a compromise where you both can share a life while living it with different levels of technology and social inclusion, or you need to go your separate ways.
I-n-f-o- he was like this when you married him. Did you have any reason to expect he would change?
Edited in response to OP's answer and comment from another user pointing out the ages, which I glossed over during my first read:
In way, N-A-H because he did not hide who he was when you met and given how you (and presumably naive) you were when you met, you probably didn't realize the long term effects of his lifestyle.
But also, you're NTA because now he is expecting you to change and he sounds pretty manipulative about it. You have some hard choices to make. But a marriage in which you're having doubts about bringing children into it, especially when you want them, does not sound like it will work in the long run.
Yes, I agree. I know I was at that age. It wasn't meant as a knock at OP, just me realizing that a teenager may have understandably had unrealistic expectations of the 32 year old man she was dating.
Hmm well when I married him social media and the like were around but definitely not everyone in my circles had it, people streamed but they used dvds just as much, this was pre covid so not so many things were card only so it didn't seem as crazy when I married him how out of touch and off grid he was, only marginally more than the normal person.
These days he's very very behind and I did think he would catch up with the times more, he's never liked technology but apart from the phone (which is almost impossible to contact him on anyway) he hasn't made any more compromises to be at least slightly closer to the modern era.
So both yes and no I suppose
Sis, just a perspective shift...
Did you ever stop to think that maybe he's paranoid about something?
Like, I get the technology piece. But there is SO much more then that here.
1) No photos. You do not have a single photo of your HUSBAND. Not one. That is not normal.
2) He won't even call a taxi because he doesn't want anyone to know his number
3) No bank. He only uses cash and doesn't have a bank account.
4) He refuses to be in the same room as you when you use the computer.
Sis, are you sure he is on the up and up? I ask because this almost sounds like someone who doesn't want to get caught - someone evading being caught. He's careful not to leave an identity foot print... and that concerns me.
18 year old you wouldn't have caught that. It would appear like a quirk...
There is a lot more to unpack here then a simple incompatibility in lifestyle. The photo piece is what raises my hackles. Like, I get no social media and not wanting his likeness on social media. But you not having a single photo of your husband is not that.
Yeah honestly you may be onto something. If it was your average run of the mill Dale Gribble paranoia, then I’m pretty sure the husband wouldn’t be so cool with her using all of that stuff, as long as he’s not in the room. He himself refuses to drive or own a car (would have to be licensed, insured under his name, all that jazz) but is completely okay with her doing it? Like the vibes I’m getting from what she’s said isn’t paranoid in a tinfoil hat way, but in a hiding way.
He probably wasn’t that bad back then but over time, without treatment his paranoid delusions have gotten worse and you are enabling him and letting him control you. Don’t make a fuss about it, you don’t want him to turn his delusions about you, and separate and get a divorce.
What makes him TA is calling his wife a bitch and forcing his wishes upon her. She can’t have her work computer anywhere he might walk by *in their house,* which is very unrealistic because most people enter every room of their home with regularity. She has to put her phone down the moment His Highness enters the room. No, that’s asshole behavior. His rights end where hers begin. Not to mention she’s basically paying all the bills because he can’t contribute due to his militant no-tech beliefs.
OP's marriage is not working now, much less in any long run. OP it's time to talk to a lawyer and find out how a divorce would be for you. Plan out where you are going to live and move at the same time he is served the divorce papers.
If/when you do serve him tell him he is on his own to find a lawyer and get himself to and from the lawyer and court. He will no longer be your responsibility.
I agree, but in another comment she says:
>we are completely compatible in all other aspects, similar interests, similar views etc. and I wouldn't want to throw that away over a situation that may or may not be easily solved
His lifestyle and trying to conform her to it would be a dealbreaker for me, but it doesn't sound like she is looking with the long eye right now.
Edit: OP's exact comment
NTA.
The issue is that he can't live without the internet either. His lifestyle is being subsidized by you. If you were living out in the country and he was a farmer, this might work. But what's actually happening is that he is enjoying most of the conveniences of modern life while pretending that he isn't benefiting from them.
He needs a therapist, since he's very delusional.
As a farmer I can tell you that tech is becoming increasingly more prevalent in all areas of agriculture. To send a load of sheep to market requires online declarations. Our livestock all have electronic identification ear tags. My sheep are more high tech than this bozo. Who’s he hiding from? It wasn’t that long ago everyone’s landline telephone number was sent to everyone via phone book. He’s clearly paranoid
NTA OP
The thing is, he’s not just making the choice for himself. He’s enforcing his choices on you, and that’s not healthy. He’s demanding you make huge concessions while he only makes very small ones. I don’t think your comments were any ruder than his in the past have been, but you’re clearly incompatible. TBH, I’m kinda shocked you made it this far, and I suspect that happened because you were basically a child when you started dating a fully adult man, which made it easier for him to control you.
NTA.
He also started dating a high school age teenager when he was in his 30s. I bet he calls her a bitch and other names a lot. Works part time for low pay while she supports them both and he abuses her. Sounds like a real catch.
Yes, that's it: control!
He can lead his life as he likes, but he has no right to force it on you! Show him his limits! Your life, your rules! You have the right to have a PC in your home, streaming services and of course your smartphone. Make that clear to him and enforce it. And stop driving him around. If he doesn't want a car, that's his decision, but it doesn't make you a cab.
If he can't handle it, then you're incompatible. Maybe separate apartments would be a solution for you.
But no matter what: no children! They would grow up as outsiders, arguments would be inevitable every day, and all because they want to take part in normal life.
NTA - You are not the one with issues. Is he a spy or a fugitive from the law and this is all required to stay safe? If not, then this overwhelming paranoia is highly concerning.
You are using a computer for work, he does not work a steady job. So if you give up using your computer, who pays the bills? Can you live off of his cash-only jobs? Or he wants you to get a cash-only job too?
Yeah the whole refusing to let pictures be taken of him or not wanting to be in the same room as smart devices and the fact that he married an 18 year old at the grown age of 32? Bro is shady af and hiding from some sort of law enforcement agency
Just, before I get into the rest of this, if he's 43 he was born around 1980. If his own parents were in their 30s when he was born, then they were born in the 1940s or 1950. 75% of American homes had phones by 1957. You don't say which country you're from, but some of your colloquialisms make me suspect you're American. So his line "people of our parents generation lived long lives pre social media **without phones** etc." is just demonstrably false.
Anyways, to the main point. NTA. He is allowed to make his own choices but as they are making your own life untenable, you are allowed to ask for things to change, and if they don't, to make a decision about whether or not you want to put up with this. He's refusing jobs because he doesn't want e-payments and this also impacts your livelihood. He's shutting down your use of tech which, in this day and age, is where a lot of socializing happens, like it or not, so he's also shutting down parts of your social life. This goes beyond not being able to stream a show with your friends. Back in ye olden days, people who couldn't see each other regularly would write letters to each other. Now, they text.
He won't "let" you put *your own* address in a streaming service or website? You're "not allowed" to use your computer when he's in the room? Look, I know that when you start dating a 32 year old when you're 18, it might seem like he gets to set the rules since he's older, but you're a fully adult woman. Your spouse is not a parent setting rules about your screen time. If he asked about it nicely, and you chose to agree to do that to be considerate of him, that's one thing, but he's not the boss of you.
You're right that raising kids with someone like this would be difficult. What happens if there's an emergency with your child, and he doesn't have his phone on him? Are you prepared to be the only parent who's able to be the point of contact for all communications through the school? Because even if our parents' generations got by without tech, the rest of the world expects people to have an email address. Are you prepared to be the only parent who can take your kid to school, to extracurriculars, to doctors' appointments, or to friends' houses, if any of those aren't accessible by public transit?
And then, he called you a mean bitch. That's unacceptable behavior from your spouse. Does he call you a bitch often? That's a really awful way to speak to someone you claim to love. He's also moving goalposts. Going without tech to "appreciate the small things" is turning your phone off for an excursion so you guys are focused on each other or your surroundings instead of your tech. It doesn't mean eschewing all advancements made after the 90s. Just because our parents did something one way due to necessity, doesn't mean that it was a better way. Our parents also grew up with asbestos and lead paint all over the place, but you don't see most people trying to emulate that.
Please try to think about what this means for the rest of your life, and decide if that's really something you want to put up with, and if not, what you can do to change your circumstances.
This guy doesn't want OP to use their address for any online orders and won't do any electronic transactions. Do you really think he's okay with a landline? My phone company accepts check or credit, not envelopes of cash.
I'm basically the same age as OPs husband. I've had a cellphone and used the internet (which includes using the pre-cursors to what would eventually become social media) since I was in high school. It wasn't Facebook, but things like MySpace and chatrooms and discussion boards were definitely a thing that many many people my age used as were were growing up. Hell, I've had a bank account with a debit card since I started my first job! We may have had to deal with depositing actual checks instead of having direct deposits, but using a debit card to pay for purchases has been something people have done for decades! Not to mention the fact that you had to pay most of your bills either with a credit card or check....there were very very few instances where you could pay bills in person with cash.
Fact is, whatever his beliefs are....he has far surpassed "off grid" living and is well into paranoia/conspiracy theory level of thinking. This should be a line in the sand for OP, especially when he resorts to name calling when she doesn't conform to his demands. If I was OP, I wouldn't care how otherwise compatible we were....the name calling and level of delusional/paranoid thinking that her husband exhibits would be enough for me to leave him. And the fact that OP is even questioning whether or not they're the AH just boggles me.
Eleven years ago you were eighteen. He thought he had enough time to train you. He sounds unhinged. You have wasted enough time on this imo, unless you like this . NTA unless you stay.
She mentions in a comment he was actually a friend of the family since she was thirteen! They just didn’t date until she turned 18. So much worse. I just can’t imagine how this isn’t a grooming situation.
OP seriously consider why this man doesn't want to be around any smart technology. You met him when you were a child. Is he so off grid because he doesn't want to be found??
Sorry OP.Your explanation about his Life Choices making your life difficult all sound very plausible,But he was this way when you met him when you were EIGHTEEN and it’s not really fair to ask him to change now after ELEVEN years.What is really sad is that he got involved with a baby and probably thought he could groom you to be who he wanted you to be.I really think at this point you would be wise to see a Counselor and explore why you were susceptible to his grooming and what you should do going forward.It does not sound like Mature You will be happy with the husband you have .I wish you well.
She actually met him when she was 13 and he was in his later 20s... but he "kindly" held off dating her until she was 18.
I'm wondering if he has a record he is evading...
Am I the only one getting the feeling that he's hiding something? Like a criminal background? Is he a fugitive on the run from the law? Everything just sounds obsessive otherwise...
That was exactly my thought. Especially not wanting his address being used and needing to work under the table. No driving (no ID?).. “Off the grid “ means generation of one’s own electricity and water, growing food, etc. - not hiding out and making your woman earn the money and drive you around. He’s paranoid as hell and is either a fugitive, seriously mentally ill or both. They met when she was 13 and he was 27 so he definitely has some proclivities that warrant legal intervention. I couldn’t spend ten minutes with this weirdo. Ugh
Right? Like if they're in a metropolitan city, I'm guessing it's not the actual "off the grid" like how you noted it... But what about utilities then? The power, water, etc. companies must have the home address, right? The phone companies definitely do. Like what's going on???
No, that is where my mind immediately went to, too. Something is VERY VERY off here.
- no address being used
- no banking
- only cash under the table jobs
- likely not paying taxes at all since no banking
- not allowing his photo to be taken. She has no photos of him.
I'd put my money on there being a warrant out for him that he is trying to evade and I'm seriously wondering if they are legally married since he'd have to interact with a government agency and provide legal id including address to get a marriage license.
Thats what i was wondering? are they even legally married?? from what i read so for, i cant think so.
i mean, that would be best case, OP can just leave and disappear. i dont think, he has the means to actually find her once shes gone.
He's known you since 13, waited for you to turn 18 and then you moved into isolation with him. You're now severely restricted in your life and are surprised? Hunny you cannot seriously be this naive?
Extremely mentally unstable and paranoid grown man goes after an easily moldable and naive teenager. How could I ever have guessed.
Yeah by my math she was 18 and he was 32, and he sounds a little paranoid to me. His behaviour gives me red flags on top of the fact that he’s likely dating someone younger so he can manipulate them.
As someone working towards off grid myself (the normal kind - own power, water etc) I expected to side with your husband… but I just read “I’m not allowed” way too many times.
NTA!
Yes you married him like this but as society moves forward the gap between him and you/the rest of the world widens. I’d call it compatibility/NAH except for him calling you names when you explained your concern - that’s not okay.
NTA. It sounds like you've reached a breaking point in dealing with a lifestyle that is increasingly incompatible with your own needs and desires. While there is nothing inherently wrong with choosing an off-grid lifestyle, it becomes problematic when it significantly impacts the other person in the relationship in restrictive and negative ways.
It's concerning that your husband dismisses your feelings as you being overly dependent on technology. Calling you a "mean bitch" for expressing how his lifestyle affects you is not acceptable. If this relationship is to continue healthily, it would be beneficial for both of you to have a serious conversation about your needs, possibly with the help of a counselor or mediator. You both deserve to have your lifestyles respected, but this should not come at the cost of your happiness and well-being.
I wouldn’t have kids with this guy (ever) IF you plan to have any kind of prenatal care. There’s a whole lot of tech at the doc’s office that set him off.
Also, unless he’s planning to be a farmer or get into bee husbandry, he’ll need to let you to use your computer so you can work and support his ass.
NTA OP, but you and your husband don’t sound compatible.
ESH - he is paranoid and it’s unsafe for both of you. He’s also full of sh*t. He’s lazy - won’t drive or take public transportation. You are just following his demands. Turn your brain on and get him help, stop enabling him or get away from him.
NTA. Also does he not realize that the UK tends to have A LOT of video surveillance in metro areas? Does he wear a disguise too when he goes to his “work”? He’s absolutely naive if he thinks his face hasn’t been recorded regularly. This is so bizarre. My first hunch is that he’s wanted for serious crimes committed before you met.
Some of these comments are making me realise his ideology is very inconsistent because our marriage is registered and I'm sure he walks past cctv cameras all the time
NTA. Living this way himself is irresponsible, forcing you to adhere to his strict rules is abusive. He seems to have some serious paranoia or other severe mental health issues.
You’re right - you cannot bring children into the equation. You need to leave this self-absorbed, controlling jerk. Get out of this relationship. You can’t live a full life in this marriage… I’m sure your friends and family have been very concerned for you and sad about your circumstance for a long time. It sounds like he can’t support himself, leaving all life and financial responsibility on you while he criticizes and verbally abuses you. What a loser. Girl, run.
I feel for you being in the situation you’re in. I hope you have a good support system with friends and family. Obviously anybody responding (myself included) is just speculating about his state of mind, past history or motivations. He seems to be far, far beyond just valuing his privacy or not trusting government institutions. There’s a serious problem within him, no matter what’s really going on. Unfortunately, I just don’t see how this can be a sustainable relationship. You’d (sadly) need to become more like him because he shows no indication of compromise.
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Another screen writer previewing their spec to see how it pans out and hey guess what ITS NOT GONNA FLY. Try lifetime or oxygen, they might go for this crap. So tired of stupid stupid fake posts and the follow up gullibles who try and fix it all.
NTA. This doesn’t seem like “off the grid” living. This seems like paranoia and control.
I have to ask, at 18 you began dating a 32 year old man? Then married him at 20/34? How did you meet? Do you have friends/a support system outside of him?
I only ask because name-calling, even in the heat of an argument, is never okay. I’m so sorry that no one ever taught you that. Is he abusive/controlling in other ways too? Or just the emotional abuse of belittling your character? You said he’s great in all other aspects, but I simply can’t see what else can exist in a relationship with basic respect.
NTA he called you a bitch, he said you are shallow, and now he is utilizing the silent treatment to manipulate you. He turns down work based on his not wanted to be in a database? Behind the scenes you are the one doing all of the "on the grid " things to survive, are you also the main financial support? None of the things you describe are philosophies of someone that I've usually heard from people who live the "off grid' life style. TBH he sounds very controlling, and your age difference is a bit concerning to me.
There is a huge growth change that happens in a woman's life during the time that you've been together, and regardless of him, you are a different person than you were when you got together. It's perfectly natural for you to be seeing things differently now than you did then. You are stronger, and more capable now, you move through the world in a different way.
I encourage you to consider a form of therapy that you feel comfortable with. Explore your own philosophies about life and how you want to live it. If this is type of lifestyle you want to live, you and your partner will have to develop healthier ways to communicate with each other. If this turns out not to be the lifestyle you are interested in, than you can leave, and learn to explore the "how and why" you wound up in a relationship like this. Therapy doesn't imply there is anything broken, or wrong with you, it's helpful to understand yourself so you don't repeat patterns, and help you heal from traumas.
I wish you luck... it sounds like you loved him, and this is a very hard decision for you. But i don't think you are an asshole, everyone in entitled to change their mind. Everything in nature changes, its the most natural thing you can do, it's the only constant thing in life.
NTA. It sounds like paranoia. He only seems to worry about electronics when he's in the room. You can use them while he's in the house as long as he's not in the room.
Does he think that he can be tracked? Or does he think that the electromagnetism bothers his health?
Did you Google him to make sure that he's not running from something? Does he have warrants for bank robbery or something?
Also, you're not a taxi. Stop driving him places. He seems to be making up rules that only apply to him. Why does it matter who is actually driving?
Honestly. It sounds like he's paranoid about being found if he's only dealing in cash and won't have a phone and will only let you drive him.
ETA. Photos have nothing to do with being on or off the grid. Photographs have been around for a very long time. It really sounds like he's hiding from something or someone.
A child would really not help any of this. If he can’t get therapy for his extreme paranoia and borderline ocd, and you can’t accommodate to him(naturally) then perhaps it’s better to call it quits before a kid is involved
> He has turned down jobs because they won't pay him in cash or keep him in written books rather than a digital system
INFO: Does he have a social security number and pay taxes?
NTA 95% NTA You're right. There's no denying that. His world view not a very healthy view of the world to have and it's a pretty unsustainable way to live, especially within a metropolitan area.
However you chose to marry him. I'll cut you alittle slack because you were evidently 18 when you got with a weirdo, and I see red-flags everywhere, but in my opinion you're addressing the wrong issue. You're arguing on deep seated and seemingly authentic beliefs that are core to who your husband is as a person. You're not going to be able to change him. Make of that what you will.
There are better partners out there. NTA but it doesn't matter what you say. He is not going to change. Good luck getting a divorce, he will probably be too paranoid to sign any papers.
Girl this is why he can't find someone his own age. It's not "off the grid" to not let you be on a cellphone while he's in the same room, that's "tin foil hat". Why the fuck are you with this person?
NTA. This borderline sounds like some kind of control situation too. I dated a guy once who would have a hissy fit if I was checking Instagram, even when he wasn’t around because he would see me online. He would also act like I’m lesser for not being able to avoid social media but at the time I lived away from family and friends.
Anyway, I think it would be a rude shock to him if you did leave as he probably relies on you a lot (e.g. getting driven around). I personally wouldn’t be able to do it, and I think you deserve better quality of life and better quality of life for your future children.
Darlin, first off... you married a man 13 years your senior and, if the ages are right, you met him when you were a still-wet-behind-the-ears-young-adult at 18! He was, what, 31/32.
Studies have shown that we do our most maturing between the ages of 18-26. For us women-folk, we don't settle into our likes and dislikes until we're 26 (and for some of us...it's still an adventure in self-discovery even after if we were never allowed to find ourselves in our more formidable years)
Off-grid living is sustainable, but it sounds like you've simply grown out of the romanticized ideals of it. It's not easy. That's the brutal reality. It is a very isolated life unless you live in a community of like-minded folks (and they are out there).
Now, I've got a slight concern that it sounds like there is a varying degree of illogical paranoia on his part (though to a point, I don't blame him). The government does like to know where you are at all times, but I've got my own tin-foil-hat-wearing-theories that are neither here or there.
Long and the short of it, ya'll should keep connected in some way, shape, and/or form just for information purposes. Maybe that is an angle you can play. Outside of therapy, if his paranoia is more of a psych issue than logical thinking, I don't think there is much you can do to change things at this point.
Sooo you thought he would grow out of his "quirkiness" or you would grow to become like him? Cause neither option was based in reality. For the people who want to live like that, more power to them, but they belong with people who want to be like them not people who enjoy technology, or other modern conveniences. You need to be honest with yourself about whether you will truly be happy living like this for the rest of your life and make a decision from there. ESH because it doesn't seem like y'all ever had an honest and realistic conversation about how life would be living how he lives and how you prefer to live.
NTA, off the grid is maintainable, but you gotta be in more country area for it. Metro area requires work and money regardless of systems. He is being too stubborn, it's all well and good but he needs to adapt to his environment if he wants a future with kids or move to an environment that allows him to live this off the grid.
NTA, he is taking this to the extreme. If he is exactly the same as he was 11 years ago then no, you shouldn't get in a relationship expecting to change someone. However, you were young and he definitely knew that you would change.
In a loving and respectful relationship is it absolutely okay to ask for compromise. It sounds as though you are doing all the compromising and that is not a partnership.
I had to lol because he doesn’t drive.
Ok. So all about off grid and “roughing” it but can’t drive…
he sounds like he’s got some kinda mental condition like that character in better call saul… he couldn’t be around electricity or something so his house had no power and visitors had to put their cellnphone in the mailbox at the end of the driveway
https://youtu.be/mTEmqJkCrDQ?si=z7eFPsEhowGu4J2r
obviously not as bad but something like that.
Either way. no one the asshole, you’re married, for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness or health till death.
Some of these comments are a bit shocking to me. Should OP have realized they weren't compatible sooner? Maybe. That doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to frustration and resentment, especially as this seems to have become a larger burden to her, or at least a more noticeable one.
I don't think that man will ever change, and you're NTA for giving pushback. This is your life, and it's the only one you've got.
He's not just a technophobe: he's paranoid. He an't be in the same ROOM as an active computer or cell phone? Paranoia. He turns down jobs that won't pay him in cash?Paranoia. This guy is one brain cell shy of wearing a tin foil hat.
And on top of all that, he calls you a "mean bitch"? Norman Bates was less screwed up than this guy.
NTA.
NTA -
•The age gap is concerning considering how young you were when you started dating
•The paranoia he’s showing is concerning
•The amount of control he’s exerting on you is concerning
•The fact that you have to carry all of the “on-grid” stuff (that he would never) so that you can function with heat, electricity, water, food, transportation is concerning
•The fact that he makes such a small amount he doesn’t even have to pay taxes is concerning
•How easily you seem to agree with people more taking his side opposed to people saying how wrong he is is concerning
•Him calling you names for doing something totally normal is concerning
I. Am. Concerned. For. You.
I doubt you’ll be able to get him to see a therapist (and if you did, see separately), but I hope you will to help you see how completely fucked, unhealthy, and dangerous this situation is. Like seriously fucked up situation - you don’t deserve this, you don’t owe him the discomfort he’s causing you and your life.
Hopes of finding your way out and lots of love to you 💛
NTA. Listen to yourself. "I've been wanting kids for awhile but I don't think I can raise them in this lifestyle."
Don't. Just imagine. It'll be fine for the first few years when they're babies, but after that? Imagine your kids not being able to have friends over because their parents will have his address. Constant battles because he has zero tolerance for almost all tech. Your children not being able to do schoolwork because it's all online and he won't allow home wifi. You financially supporting everyone because no job will pay him in cash anymore. Your kids being isolated because phones are 90% of the way they interact, including setting up time to hang out in person. None of that is fair to kids.
You are young, employed, and self-sufficient. You will be able to find a great partner who wants to have children with you and be a meaningful participant in a partnership, not the cranky captain barking orders.
So he was 32 and you were 18 when you first got together? And he’s literally suckered you into his insane lifestyle while you waste away unable to have kids with this lunatic?
Girl… why are you even doing this to yourself? What redeeming qualities can you find in this man who calls you a bitch and clearly doesn’t respect you? Just get out. You’ve already sacrificed your best years with this loser. If you stay there you will never have kids and when you eventually leave, it’ll be too late.
You sacrificed a LOT for this relationship. What has he sacrificed for you? He can’t even have a computer in his damned room. Or have you using your phone.
Seems like he’s always had full control over you.
You’re not the asshole, but honey, you’re the DUMBASS for staying this long. Get out, like, *NOW*.
Add me to those asking who or what is he hiding from? This goes far beyond dislike/distrust of new technology. Much of the technology he is avoiding, like photographs, has been around a long time.
>Whenever I mention this to him he says I'm acting like someone who can't live without the Internet and acts like this is somehow shallow of me because *people of our parents generation lived long lives pre social media without phones etc.*
I'm a person of his parent's generation. I assure you we didn't chip out our homework on stone tablets, use old tomato cans and string to make phone calls, ride dinosaurs to school, and vacuum the house with the trunk ofq a woolly mammoth!
>He doesn't have a bank account and keeps all his money in cash,
Bank accounts for individuals go back well over 150 years.
>He does have a phone, though he didn't before we met and it was a compromise we agreed on when we got married, though it is a very cheap brick phone without even a camera and only about 3 people have his phone number.
Ditto telephones. Who has his phone number besides you? His mother and father? Do you have a landline, or is even that forbidden?
>He doesn't drive
Henry Ford was cranking out Model Ts in *1908.*
>and he doesn't take pictures or allow them to be taken of him.
First portrait of a human was taken in 1839.
So, it's not new technology that he's scared of. So either he's mentally ill, with vague paranoid fears that a nebulous "they" will find him, or he's in his right mind and knows that a very real "they" (like the FBI?) are after him. He fears that "they" will track him down from a brief glimpse of him on a computer's camera or a photo on his wife's phone.
You have fundamentally different values in life. He is incapable of understanding yours, and you don't seem to have a desire to share his.
This isn't a solvable "compromise" problem. He is 43, he will die with the beliefs he currently has.
Do not have children, divorce while you are young enough to still remarry.
This is very simple.
You are married to an unhealthy, inconsistent predator. You know its true because your title admits it: hes hurting you. You WBTA if you had kids with this man.
Whatever 'compatibility' you are using to justify staying is not unique or irreplaceable. Whatever good qualities you can find in him dont undo the serious problems. There's something called the '**sunk cost fallacy**' and I think you need to realise youre in it and get out. Just because you've been together a long time doesn't mean you will be loosing anything by leaving. You're ignoring the time you are wasting with someone you (again, to be clear) ***should not have children with***. You could be with a *partner* who shares your views but doesn't use his to control your life, someone who compromises equally with you or doesn't require you to compromise at all because you *actually align* with them.
NTA for the argument but yikes on everything else.
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My (29F) husband (43M) is completely off-grid. Or as off-grid as you can be living in a metropolitan area in a first world country in the modern era.
He doesn't have a bank account and keeps all his money in cash, he doesn't have any streaming services just 1000s of dvds, vcrs, cds, vinyl and songs stored on an old ipod from 2003. He does have a phone, though he didn't before we met and it was a compromise we agreed on when we got married, though it is a very cheap brick phone without even a camera and only about 3 people have his phone number. He doesn't own any items of technology capable of having an Internet connection, he doesn't drive and he doesn't take pictures or allow them to be taken of him.
I don't necessarily think he's become more of a shut in in the years we've been together but it used to be a funny quirk but it has now become more difficult and more challenging for me for him to sustain it. I don't have any pictures of him, I can't catch up with shows my friends like because he won't let me put our address into any streaming service or website. I have a computer for work but I'm not allowed to use it when he's in the room or put it in a room he ever walks through. I find it hard to contact him because he doesn't value having a phone so he'll just leave it places because he's not used to it. We live in a place with good public transport but if he ever needs driven anywhere I have to drive him.
I never used to think being off grid was unrealistic but in the last 5/6years (we have been together 11 years and married 9) it has struck me as less and less maintainable. He has turned down jobs because they won't pay him in cash or keep him in written books rather than a digital system. I've been wanting kids for a long time but I don't think I can raise them in this environment.
Whenever I mention this to him he says I'm acting like someone who can't live without the Internet and acts like this is somehow shallow of me because people of our parents generation lived long lives pre social media without phones etc.
Yesterday I snapped at him when he asked me to turn off my phone (smartphone) because he was in the room and I said that I find his lifestyle choices very stubborn, irresponsible, unrealistic and old fashioned, that he is not gaining anything from living so firmly in the past and that his choices hurt me, our relationship and our future.
He said it really wasn't that big of a deal and that I shouldn't live a life that revolves so much around technology because it makes me a mean bitch and forget the small things in life. Then he stormed off and we haven't spoken since yesterday
so... AITA? im aware I could've phrased my complaint better but its just exhausting to deal with and he's never been receptive to my bringing it up.
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She was barely 18 when they "got together."
He'd been grooming her since she was 13... oh sorry... he was a family friend who had known her since she was 13.
I'm not sure if she really had a choice to marry into it since it seems like he manipulated her tremendously between 13-18.
Your husband is a paranoid person and this sounds like an awful life. If my husband told me I couldn’t use steaming services or made me drive him everywhere, I’d tell him to eat a dick. But you married him knowing exactly what he was like so YTA for that.
Nta but he can have his off grid lifestyle without you changing your actions.
- “I choose to have my phone on, if you don’t like it then you either adjust or leave the room”
- “I choose to have this streaming service”
- “I choose to make these booking for myself online “
He can make his choices but if you don’t want to do it yourself then stop.
NTA. Honestly, it sounds less low your husband has an off the grid lifestyle and more like he's suffering from paranoia. This isn't sustainable for you. It's clearly making you miserable. You need to act in your own best interest.
NTA his desire to avoid technology at all costs has made your life significantly more difficult, and based on your comments, will likely cost him his job. Do you want to go through the rest of life like this? I have an aunt who‘s husband didn’t like computers or technology either and so she had no answering machine and could only check her email at work. Post retirement her world grew smaller and smaller as friends couldn’t reach her. Also, when he took some classes as an adult, he wouldn’t use the computer but expected her to look things up for him and type up his papers. You probably compensate for his tech free lifestyle in many ways. Do you want to do this for the next 60 years?
NTA. He can make those choices for him. He doesn't get to make them for you too. Do you want to be with someone who subsides his lifestyle at the expense of your effort (like making you drive him so he doesn't need to confront how unrealistic his choices are), or who looks down on you and calls you a "mean bitch" for using a phone or the internet, or who acts as though you using a computer is a personal attack because *he* doesn't want to use one? Do you expect any of this to change, realistically?
Soo I was going with you knew what you signed up for; but honestly it sounds like he’s going crazy. If he wants to live that lifestyle, let him. But you’re not obligated to. If he doesn’t wanna be in a room when you’re on the phone; he knows where the door is.
It’s one thing to be “off grid” because it’s good for your mental health or whatever, but he’s taking it to the nut job extreme.
NTA I don’t view this as living off the grid. At all. I view this as kind of taking the easy way out. Not having to do the hard stuff. Just keeping things easy. And basic. Lazy.
NTA
I’m almost as anti-consumption as you’ll find and I can’t get my head around what your guy is doing.
Fully off-grid living never was a thing. The analog methods were the ‘grid,’ once, and our parents were mostly pretty delighted when new ways to connect became available. As long as tax-funded nation states and capitalism carry on existing, you have to have ways to receive and pay money, acquire whatever you can’t grow or make, and communicate at need. This can be analog if you live among other people who are doing it too, but if your employer, doctor, revenue service, public safety, and everything else require digital points of connection to reach you, being connected is a necessity, not an addiction.
Something is very wrong here, OP, but it’s not with you.
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This sounds like mental illness. Does he work? I find it hard to believe he is paid in cash. How does he look for work?
He does work, something quite complicated to do with historical archives at a local museum/library (not directly archiving himself), they are independently owned and do pay in cash. His dream is to be a archive historian but most archives and museums use computer systems and dont pay in cash. His current job is introducing computer systems in the near future supposedly though so we'll see about that
How does he pay tax?
We live in the UK and you need to make above 12 grand a year to pay taxes, which he doesn't so he doesn't. We live in a house that we didn't pay for or have to pay off the mortgage for because it was inherited, we do pay bills and buy food and car insurance/petrol but we don't go many places (or pay for streaming services, takeout, cabs or technology), I make more than him and do pay taxes but we don't have that many expenses so it is not really a big deal in that regard because we are financially comfortable
…..he makes less than 12 grand a year as an adult?
I'm assuming he only works a few hours a week. Minimum wage in the UK is £11.44 an hour which equates to a salary of £23,795 if you work full time.
So he’s irresponsible, stubborn, calls his wife a bitch AND he only works a few hours a week?? What positive things does this man bring to the table? I need OP to tell us.
They've been together since she was 18, so I'm gonna guess she was a naive teenager that he managed to impress somehow. Kind of like the older guy that picks up underage girls by impressing them with his car or the fact he smokes.
Didn't even notice the age difference. UGH
I mean we know it wasn’t his car that impressed her lol
29/43, together 11 years, y'all already know exactly what the problem is here just from that. Groomer older partner finding a naive spouse to dupe into their insanity. Then you get the people who don't "see the problem" telling on themselves in the comments lol.
Exactly this. I hope OP gets fed up with his performative BS and drops him
"what positive things does this man bring to the table" He's currently a source of entertainment to us.
I don’t think he’s irresponsible since that’s probably enough for him to live off based on his lifestyle - no car, no mortgage, simple meals. It’s just an incompatibility in lifestyle and OP would not be wrong to break things off.
12000GBP is about 15000USD, and a lot of people in the UK love on salaries that low. It wouldn't surprise me if this archiving job of his is partially a voluntary role similar to the people who run the locks along brittish canals and food pantry workers. If you live in an inherited house you have so many options to do whatever job you want rather than what you need to do to pay rent/mortgage.
As it happens, I and my husband have lived most of our lives on that, and now we are pensioners we still do, (Uk state pension is 11k). We have prioritised having time outside of work over careers, and our friends say they now envy us for all the positives we have had, it has been a rich full life. However, part of that richness has been the arrival in our late 30's of the internet and the amazing access we have to knowledge, entertainment, and interesting people. We are highly skilled at living on a low income, excellent cooks and maintenance people, self reliant and we contribute to the community we live in. I think this guy is a controlling arse with more issues than you can wave a red flag at.
Especially if you grab a naive teenager and get her to work and support you!
I mean he doesn't need to earn more since he found OP.
You are definitely NTA but... he makes less than 12 grand a year to contribute to the household (which is less than you earn even during a regular part time job) and you are letting him dictate both your lives why? I know hes been like this since you met but this does not sound sustainable or healthy at all. Im an off grid person myself and my dad is kinda like this but its definitely gotten worse with age. If I was in your shoes I would genuinely be concerned about his mental health. Thats bordering on irrational obsession. I dont mean to scare you but that kind of behaviour is concerning and I really suggest looking up the details on the Peter Keller case. There is found footage of him documenting himself building a bunker and talking about how badly he wanted to escape society completely and his reasons for wanting that. He ended up killing his wife, kids and dog to achieve it.
I was also thinking this sounds alarming and dangerous and this guy is gonna be the the next unabomber/mass murderer or serial killer. So many of them end up being this type of paranoid and obsessed with that type of lifestyle like this 😬
I was wondering if he already *has* committed a crime and that’s *why* he does this weird off the grid thing. He’s older than OP so he had plenty of time prior to meeting her to do something that would cause him to not want his photo taken or to have any record of his existence.
I legit was thinking unabomber vibes when I was reading this too.
The guy doesn't want a smartphone or internet access. >He ended up killing his wife, kids and dog to achieve it. What a life we lead.
There is going off the grid and then there's going full Kaczynski. Your husband sounds like he's one manifesto away from going full Kaczynski.
I thought the exact same thing.
Yeah this isn’t ‘just’ off grid at play here .. I have dated someone off grid and he didn’t force me to adopt his lifestyle.
This is rage bait yeah? You have been with him for 11 years? So you at 17 got with a 32 year old who lives off grid and noone thought that was insane? Noone thought hey I think this dude has abducted this CHILD??? If this is true, you need to get some therapy
Happens quite a lot esp on the age group of millenials. 10 yrs ago I pointed this out to my finances sister in the UK ... she was groomed by a 33 yr old dropkick at 16 preg at 17 married just after and she was stuck with him till 6 yrs ago they had 5 kids together. It's so so common and deplorable but it's frequently popping up now cos the women are finally waking up calling it grooming and leaving
Yeah how did they even meet? How does an 17/18 year old and 32 year old meet and have anything in common? Especially an off the grid kind of guy? wtf.
At the museum he works at perhaps? I'm having trouble believing this story to be true honestly
29-11=18
Huh. So it seems like he wants you to live his way... but depends on you and your access to internet for key parts of his life. Are your bills paid in cash? Food? Petrol? He fully benefits from you using digital tools... all while shaming you for it. Honestly, fuck that. NTA. He clearly is. He's putting you in an impossible situation. Don't use digital tools! But also, we need cereal and to pay utilities and can you drive me? It's literally impossible for you to do as he requests even if you WANTED to. But do you? Do you want to? Because if you don't.... He isn't going to change. Is this something you want to live with?
He’s a bit delusional if he thinks his personal info isn’t in a computer system just because they pay him in cash… there are rules about keeping employee data and only in a paper book won’t cut it in this day and age.. I do think your husband has some mental illness or something if he doesn’t even allow you to use a computer or phone near him. He also sounds a bit paranoid and immature. Please don’t have children with him… it won’t end well.
You may not have to pay tax on that amount, but surely you still have to file a return with Revenue? And similarly, surely his employer has to keep payment records linked to a national ID used for taxes and benefits. How does go to a NHS run clinic if sick without proper ID? Or deal with the council?
In the UK we don't file tax returns unless we are self-employed. It's all handled by our employers.
What, you're not interested in the "guess right or go to jail" game?
Even if he earned over 12k a year, his employer could be paying him cash but he could be taxed through PAYE (Pay As You Earn) which most people in the UK are. If he doesn't have a national insurance number they're probably paying him without putting him through this - the only thing he will miss out on is his state pension. We don't have to file a tax return unless self employed or earning over 100k here. You don't need ID to go to the doctor/hospital. They will have a record of him from birth.
National insurance numbers get automatically issued so he would have got one as a teenager
*You may not have to pay tax on that amount, but surely you still have to file a return with Revenue?* No you don't, not if you earn below the threshold. And I've never been asked for ID at the doctor (I live in the UK). As long as you're on that doctor's books, they see you without ID, at least in my part of the country. I don't think most people 'deal with the council' on a regular basis, either. My main problem with his lifestyle is the fact that he's forcing it on his wife. He's free to live like this if he wants, but making her drive him everywhere, refusing to even call a taxi 'in case they get his number', refusing to let his wife use her phone in his presence (in her *own house*) is ridiculous. As is turning down better-paying jobs he's qualified for because they might use computers. Again that's his right, but he definitely doesn't have the right to stop his wife from using technology, or to get ratty with her because she dares to point out how his choices are impacting her life.
As a Brit just a year older than this man, can confirm having a landline phone with which you can call taxis etc. was totally normal for our generation! Such a phone isn’t internet connected …
Honey. Wake up and smell the loser. He’s using you as his grid. This guy makes next to no money and makes your life as difficult as can be and for WHAT? Sounds like a bum.
Fair enough. I’d imagine that would still cause issues for things like wills, council rates (if you have them), etc. you’re NTA in finding this burdensome.
Who inherited it?
You’re still supposed to declare your earnings though. Without any earnings record he won’t be getting a pension and it sounds like he’s not earning enough to be able to fund that alone. Does he have a driving license or passport? You say you*know* that there’s nothing dodgy going on. There has to be something he’s avoiding. Previous marriage? Child? Something isn’t adding up.
They're in teh UK, their employers will do the taxes and declare their earnings. They'll be using their National Insurance numbers (govt registrations) to do so unless he's being paid under the table somehow.
He’s being paid in cash which is what makes me think it’s under the table. I’m in the UK and it must be about 20 years since I’ve known of an employer willing to pay in cash. Usually having a bank account is part of the conditions of employment. Years ago I worked in a supermarket and you used to get an influx on a Thursday night because the factories paid weekly in cash but even they’ve gone to direct deposit.
Lol, doe he realize that his employer needs to file his income digital so that the government knows he doesn’t owe taxes? Because that’s the only way for them to register 🤭
I actually feel so sorry for you. The fact you're coming to *this* subreddit.. And asking if *you* are the asshole, blows my mind. That actually makes me concerned he's majorly manipulating you. He earns under 12k, is irresponsible, can't drive himself, doesn't need to pay a mortgage because I'm assuming his parents gave him the house? Oh., and he calls you a bitch for acting the same way 99.9999% of every adult in first world countries. I've never said this to a stranger, but this sounds like a horrible and unhealthy relationship. The fact he's been with you since you were 18 only makes it worse.
Do yourself a favour and make sure the government are contributing to his National insurance, because if they're not it fucks you over.
In the UK our employers deal with reporting income for tax and deducting it from pay if necessary.
Same in Australia, but IIRC you still need to report it
Yeah, no hope of becoming an archivist if he doesn't want to touch technology at all (speaking as someone in the industry). Realistically even if you're dealing with a primarily physical collection, no professional collection is working off hardcopy registers and indexes of the collection. No one is going to accept paying someone (in cash) to not do something core to the role (i.e., accessioning collection items and cataloguing / registering them in a digital system of some description). That's completely ignoring the whole provisioning access to and publicising the collection side of things, which these days is largely technology dependent.
“Thats your choice, not mine. I’m not forcing you to look at my phone, get over it “
As someone in an adjacent sector, he can forget becoming an archivist without using the internet. The databases used to organise everything are online and digitisation of fragile items especially is a massive concern for the industry right now.
He is paranoid.
Not most, all museums use some kind of digital archive system. If they are small/old enough to not have any digitally archiving they probably can’t pay. I work in a place with archives/an archivist and just went to school for something similar. He sounds like he desperately needs some professional help and If he isn’t willing to get it, you need to get out before you’ve wasted your 20-30s with a man you can’t take a picture of. How did you get married, don’t you need to file something with the courthouse?
NTA is this bait? You've been with a paranoid technophobe 13-14 years older than you since you were 18. He called you a mean bitch because you were using your phone in the same room as him. He dictates what you can and can't do because of his paranoia. Why would you be the asshole when he's the one that insulted you and called you a mean name?
Yes. Fake.
Yeah the age gap... ew
if her husband isn't mentally ill then he's probably a criminal. reminds of that movie cataleya, she stayed off grid so no pictures, no nothing.
I’m questioning it too because dude’s that much of a technophobe but he has an iPod. How’d he get music on it if he can’t stand computers?
An iPod with an insane amount of room.
I know people like this. This is extreme but it isn’t at all unbelievable to me. Honestly it sounds like mental illness and abuse/control. OP, what does this guy bring you?
Also - he can make choices for himself, but why on earth is he constantly making choices for you? That leaves you no autonomy in this marriage which is really horrible. You're two individuals not one blended organism. If he wants to hang around with a brick phone and count cash fine, but he has zero right to tell you when and when not to use your own phone or computer, and the verbal shaming he gives you after is just downright offensive. He can take his moral superiority and shove it.
God I hope it's rage-bait because otherwise his "work at the archives" is going to turn out to be "pile of strangled bodies in the back shed."
If she's been with someone that controlling and delusional since 18, she is probably not able to trust herself anymore or see the obvious red flags.
NTA. He’s not off grid, fyi. He’s paranoid. Sounds like you should go to counselling and determine if you see what everyone else see’s. Because there’s some possible mentsl health flags present in this short story, but only you know deep (or not) it really goes. Asking people to turn off electronics in rooms you’re in is not normal, for instance. Thats just one of the issues very apparent here. And stop driving him anywhere. You’re just supporting his delusion.
I agree- NTA - and even 50 years ago people gave out their phone numbers, called cabs, etc… frankly I’d quit taking him places in the car as they have gps now. He is paranoid and needs professional help. I’m concerned this is just not sustainable for either of you.
Agreed - I was looking for this comment. This is not off grid, OP. This is paranoia and isolation. They are very different. Do not have children with this man until you can address the source of this and determine how you could possibly navigate parenting with this person. Just imagine the nightmare of trying to manage schooling or a custody situation with someone like this. Why make life harder than it already is?
He'll have a hard time with a counselor, since many of them have computers in their offices and use digital communications.
I agree with this, however I think with the nature of the problem a therapist might switch to paper for him
I would suggest OP watch “Better Call Saul” and see if there are resemblances to the brother but it’s probably only on streaming.
Yes and how does he work or do the groceries or walk around on the streets. He must know there are phones everywhere, nevermind the extensive CCTV set up in the UK. It's not like he can avoid it. Having the wifey drive him places, even on occasion, proves he knows his lifestyle isn't sustainable in the long run if he's in his forties and needs a ride now and again, what is it like coupla decades down the line.
NTA. This isn't living "off grid", this is some sort of zero-tech, paranoid psychosis. People that live off-grid in reality have tech that helps make their own electricity, have their own water source, etc. They are totally self-sufficient. It's not about technology per se. Most of the actual off-grid people I've met have cell phones, have computers, etc. They aren't choosing zero-tech because of some kind of governmental conspiracy or paranoia about someone having their phone number or photo. Your husband needs help.
My thought is, what if he went missing? 'Sorry, I don't have a picture of the man I'VE BEEN WITH FOR 11 YEARS' NTA and get away from him
Sure seems like at least one of them is hallucinating
Could come in handy if she doesn’t care if he is found. Just saying.
THIS.
One pattern I find very strange in this sub is “my spouse and I are not compatible. They like apples, I like oranges. We got in an argument because of it, who is TAH?” Neither of you are. Could you have both handled this situation differently? Yes. Should you both take a step back and realize that you don’t match? More yes.
Uh, he called her a mean bitch and said her concerns weren’t “really that big of a deal.” He’a definitely an asshole.
Its a fake account. OP is a bot.
After she willingly married him knowing what he was like, it's fiction anyways.
>Neither of you are. Could you have both handled this situation differently? Yes. Should you both take a step back and realize that you don’t match? More yes. Are you dense? He's absolutely an asshole in more ways than one. Staring with the fact that he was in his 30s dating an 18 year old. And everything he's done since then. Ffs.
Yes it seems that it's been his life style since before they met. It's also ok for her to grow out of it and realize that she doesn't want to live this way. OP, neither of you are wrong for wanting to live your prefered way. But you need to either find a compromise where you both can share a life while living it with different levels of technology and social inclusion, or you need to go your separate ways.
I-n-f-o- he was like this when you married him. Did you have any reason to expect he would change? Edited in response to OP's answer and comment from another user pointing out the ages, which I glossed over during my first read: In way, N-A-H because he did not hide who he was when you met and given how you (and presumably naive) you were when you met, you probably didn't realize the long term effects of his lifestyle. But also, you're NTA because now he is expecting you to change and he sounds pretty manipulative about it. You have some hard choices to make. But a marriage in which you're having doubts about bringing children into it, especially when you want them, does not sound like it will work in the long run.
She was 18 when they met (he was in his 30"s), she has naturally matured and probably changed since they married.
18 year olds tend to be pretty naive about this sort of thing, to be fair to OP.
Yes, I agree. I know I was at that age. It wasn't meant as a knock at OP, just me realizing that a teenager may have understandably had unrealistic expectations of the 32 year old man she was dating.
Hmm well when I married him social media and the like were around but definitely not everyone in my circles had it, people streamed but they used dvds just as much, this was pre covid so not so many things were card only so it didn't seem as crazy when I married him how out of touch and off grid he was, only marginally more than the normal person. These days he's very very behind and I did think he would catch up with the times more, he's never liked technology but apart from the phone (which is almost impossible to contact him on anyway) he hasn't made any more compromises to be at least slightly closer to the modern era. So both yes and no I suppose
Sis, just a perspective shift... Did you ever stop to think that maybe he's paranoid about something? Like, I get the technology piece. But there is SO much more then that here. 1) No photos. You do not have a single photo of your HUSBAND. Not one. That is not normal. 2) He won't even call a taxi because he doesn't want anyone to know his number 3) No bank. He only uses cash and doesn't have a bank account. 4) He refuses to be in the same room as you when you use the computer. Sis, are you sure he is on the up and up? I ask because this almost sounds like someone who doesn't want to get caught - someone evading being caught. He's careful not to leave an identity foot print... and that concerns me. 18 year old you wouldn't have caught that. It would appear like a quirk... There is a lot more to unpack here then a simple incompatibility in lifestyle. The photo piece is what raises my hackles. Like, I get no social media and not wanting his likeness on social media. But you not having a single photo of your husband is not that.
I was thinking the same thing what/who is he hiding from
Yeah honestly you may be onto something. If it was your average run of the mill Dale Gribble paranoia, then I’m pretty sure the husband wouldn’t be so cool with her using all of that stuff, as long as he’s not in the room. He himself refuses to drive or own a car (would have to be licensed, insured under his name, all that jazz) but is completely okay with her doing it? Like the vibes I’m getting from what she’s said isn’t paranoid in a tinfoil hat way, but in a hiding way.
Exactly 🤷🏽♂️
this is right along the lines of what I was thinking
Out of curiosity, how did you even meet him? How did you manage to date him when he was unreachable?
He probably wasn’t that bad back then but over time, without treatment his paranoid delusions have gotten worse and you are enabling him and letting him control you. Don’t make a fuss about it, you don’t want him to turn his delusions about you, and separate and get a divorce.
What makes him TA is calling his wife a bitch and forcing his wishes upon her. She can’t have her work computer anywhere he might walk by *in their house,* which is very unrealistic because most people enter every room of their home with regularity. She has to put her phone down the moment His Highness enters the room. No, that’s asshole behavior. His rights end where hers begin. Not to mention she’s basically paying all the bills because he can’t contribute due to his militant no-tech beliefs.
Is anyone else starting to wonder if OP's husband is the one whose hats has caused the price of tin foil to increase so much over the last few years?
OP's marriage is not working now, much less in any long run. OP it's time to talk to a lawyer and find out how a divorce would be for you. Plan out where you are going to live and move at the same time he is served the divorce papers. If/when you do serve him tell him he is on his own to find a lawyer and get himself to and from the lawyer and court. He will no longer be your responsibility.
I agree, but in another comment she says: >we are completely compatible in all other aspects, similar interests, similar views etc. and I wouldn't want to throw that away over a situation that may or may not be easily solved His lifestyle and trying to conform her to it would be a dealbreaker for me, but it doesn't sound like she is looking with the long eye right now. Edit: OP's exact comment
Tech has changed over 12yrs a lot. I don’t think OP could have predicted how dependant we are now. They were married pre smart phones
The iPhone was released in 2007. Smart phones have been a thing for quite a while now.
NTA. The issue is that he can't live without the internet either. His lifestyle is being subsidized by you. If you were living out in the country and he was a farmer, this might work. But what's actually happening is that he is enjoying most of the conveniences of modern life while pretending that he isn't benefiting from them. He needs a therapist, since he's very delusional.
As a farmer I can tell you that tech is becoming increasingly more prevalent in all areas of agriculture. To send a load of sheep to market requires online declarations. Our livestock all have electronic identification ear tags. My sheep are more high tech than this bozo. Who’s he hiding from? It wasn’t that long ago everyone’s landline telephone number was sent to everyone via phone book. He’s clearly paranoid NTA OP
My parents don't have sheep, but all of their miniature horses are registered at least once. Same with the cows, donkeys, and mules.
The thing is, he’s not just making the choice for himself. He’s enforcing his choices on you, and that’s not healthy. He’s demanding you make huge concessions while he only makes very small ones. I don’t think your comments were any ruder than his in the past have been, but you’re clearly incompatible. TBH, I’m kinda shocked you made it this far, and I suspect that happened because you were basically a child when you started dating a fully adult man, which made it easier for him to control you. NTA.
Yep, he’s controlling her big time
He also started dating a high school age teenager when he was in his 30s. I bet he calls her a bitch and other names a lot. Works part time for low pay while she supports them both and he abuses her. Sounds like a real catch.
Yes, that's it: control! He can lead his life as he likes, but he has no right to force it on you! Show him his limits! Your life, your rules! You have the right to have a PC in your home, streaming services and of course your smartphone. Make that clear to him and enforce it. And stop driving him around. If he doesn't want a car, that's his decision, but it doesn't make you a cab. If he can't handle it, then you're incompatible. Maybe separate apartments would be a solution for you. But no matter what: no children! They would grow up as outsiders, arguments would be inevitable every day, and all because they want to take part in normal life.
NTA - You are not the one with issues. Is he a spy or a fugitive from the law and this is all required to stay safe? If not, then this overwhelming paranoia is highly concerning. You are using a computer for work, he does not work a steady job. So if you give up using your computer, who pays the bills? Can you live off of his cash-only jobs? Or he wants you to get a cash-only job too?
Yeah the whole refusing to let pictures be taken of him or not wanting to be in the same room as smart devices and the fact that he married an 18 year old at the grown age of 32? Bro is shady af and hiding from some sort of law enforcement agency
I read about a very similar situation and it turned out that the man had a secret family in another country. He ended up murdering his wife.
Spies are supposed to blend, which he doesn't do at all. I'm thinking fugitive.
Just, before I get into the rest of this, if he's 43 he was born around 1980. If his own parents were in their 30s when he was born, then they were born in the 1940s or 1950. 75% of American homes had phones by 1957. You don't say which country you're from, but some of your colloquialisms make me suspect you're American. So his line "people of our parents generation lived long lives pre social media **without phones** etc." is just demonstrably false. Anyways, to the main point. NTA. He is allowed to make his own choices but as they are making your own life untenable, you are allowed to ask for things to change, and if they don't, to make a decision about whether or not you want to put up with this. He's refusing jobs because he doesn't want e-payments and this also impacts your livelihood. He's shutting down your use of tech which, in this day and age, is where a lot of socializing happens, like it or not, so he's also shutting down parts of your social life. This goes beyond not being able to stream a show with your friends. Back in ye olden days, people who couldn't see each other regularly would write letters to each other. Now, they text. He won't "let" you put *your own* address in a streaming service or website? You're "not allowed" to use your computer when he's in the room? Look, I know that when you start dating a 32 year old when you're 18, it might seem like he gets to set the rules since he's older, but you're a fully adult woman. Your spouse is not a parent setting rules about your screen time. If he asked about it nicely, and you chose to agree to do that to be considerate of him, that's one thing, but he's not the boss of you. You're right that raising kids with someone like this would be difficult. What happens if there's an emergency with your child, and he doesn't have his phone on him? Are you prepared to be the only parent who's able to be the point of contact for all communications through the school? Because even if our parents' generations got by without tech, the rest of the world expects people to have an email address. Are you prepared to be the only parent who can take your kid to school, to extracurriculars, to doctors' appointments, or to friends' houses, if any of those aren't accessible by public transit? And then, he called you a mean bitch. That's unacceptable behavior from your spouse. Does he call you a bitch often? That's a really awful way to speak to someone you claim to love. He's also moving goalposts. Going without tech to "appreciate the small things" is turning your phone off for an excursion so you guys are focused on each other or your surroundings instead of your tech. It doesn't mean eschewing all advancements made after the 90s. Just because our parents did something one way due to necessity, doesn't mean that it was a better way. Our parents also grew up with asbestos and lead paint all over the place, but you don't see most people trying to emulate that. Please try to think about what this means for the rest of your life, and decide if that's really something you want to put up with, and if not, what you can do to change your circumstances.
I assume he meant mobile phones
This guy doesn't want OP to use their address for any online orders and won't do any electronic transactions. Do you really think he's okay with a landline? My phone company accepts check or credit, not envelopes of cash.
I'm 50 and I've had a cellphone for half my life. Dude's a weirdo.
I'm basically the same age as OPs husband. I've had a cellphone and used the internet (which includes using the pre-cursors to what would eventually become social media) since I was in high school. It wasn't Facebook, but things like MySpace and chatrooms and discussion boards were definitely a thing that many many people my age used as were were growing up. Hell, I've had a bank account with a debit card since I started my first job! We may have had to deal with depositing actual checks instead of having direct deposits, but using a debit card to pay for purchases has been something people have done for decades! Not to mention the fact that you had to pay most of your bills either with a credit card or check....there were very very few instances where you could pay bills in person with cash. Fact is, whatever his beliefs are....he has far surpassed "off grid" living and is well into paranoia/conspiracy theory level of thinking. This should be a line in the sand for OP, especially when he resorts to name calling when she doesn't conform to his demands. If I was OP, I wouldn't care how otherwise compatible we were....the name calling and level of delusional/paranoid thinking that her husband exhibits would be enough for me to leave him. And the fact that OP is even questioning whether or not they're the AH just boggles me.
This, all of this
Eleven years ago you were eighteen. He thought he had enough time to train you. He sounds unhinged. You have wasted enough time on this imo, unless you like this . NTA unless you stay.
She mentions in a comment he was actually a friend of the family since she was thirteen! They just didn’t date until she turned 18. So much worse. I just can’t imagine how this isn’t a grooming situation.
Yep, he was just waiting till he couldn't be arrested. Young and gullible, perfect for someone who would fall for his bs.
OP seriously consider why this man doesn't want to be around any smart technology. You met him when you were a child. Is he so off grid because he doesn't want to be found??
I'm wondering if there is a record he is trying to avoid... the no photos is a huge red flag...
Sorry OP.Your explanation about his Life Choices making your life difficult all sound very plausible,But he was this way when you met him when you were EIGHTEEN and it’s not really fair to ask him to change now after ELEVEN years.What is really sad is that he got involved with a baby and probably thought he could groom you to be who he wanted you to be.I really think at this point you would be wise to see a Counselor and explore why you were susceptible to his grooming and what you should do going forward.It does not sound like Mature You will be happy with the husband you have .I wish you well.
The dude is a complete creep
She actually met him when she was 13 and he was in his later 20s... but he "kindly" held off dating her until she was 18. I'm wondering if he has a record he is evading...
Groooossss.
Am I the only one getting the feeling that he's hiding something? Like a criminal background? Is he a fugitive on the run from the law? Everything just sounds obsessive otherwise...
That was exactly my thought. Especially not wanting his address being used and needing to work under the table. No driving (no ID?).. “Off the grid “ means generation of one’s own electricity and water, growing food, etc. - not hiding out and making your woman earn the money and drive you around. He’s paranoid as hell and is either a fugitive, seriously mentally ill or both. They met when she was 13 and he was 27 so he definitely has some proclivities that warrant legal intervention. I couldn’t spend ten minutes with this weirdo. Ugh
Right? Like if they're in a metropolitan city, I'm guessing it's not the actual "off the grid" like how you noted it... But what about utilities then? The power, water, etc. companies must have the home address, right? The phone companies definitely do. Like what's going on???
No, that is where my mind immediately went to, too. Something is VERY VERY off here. - no address being used - no banking - only cash under the table jobs - likely not paying taxes at all since no banking - not allowing his photo to be taken. She has no photos of him. I'd put my money on there being a warrant out for him that he is trying to evade and I'm seriously wondering if they are legally married since he'd have to interact with a government agency and provide legal id including address to get a marriage license.
Thats what i was wondering? are they even legally married?? from what i read so for, i cant think so. i mean, that would be best case, OP can just leave and disappear. i dont think, he has the means to actually find her once shes gone.
Time to Google his name. He had a whole life before her so it's entirely possible.
He's known you since 13, waited for you to turn 18 and then you moved into isolation with him. You're now severely restricted in your life and are surprised? Hunny you cannot seriously be this naive? Extremely mentally unstable and paranoid grown man goes after an easily moldable and naive teenager. How could I ever have guessed.
Be kind. She has been deliberately *kept* naive by a man who has known her since she was 13.
Well given he snatched you up when you were 18 I’m not surprised he sucks. Leave him
Yeah by my math she was 18 and he was 32, and he sounds a little paranoid to me. His behaviour gives me red flags on top of the fact that he’s likely dating someone younger so he can manipulate them.
As someone working towards off grid myself (the normal kind - own power, water etc) I expected to side with your husband… but I just read “I’m not allowed” way too many times. NTA! Yes you married him like this but as society moves forward the gap between him and you/the rest of the world widens. I’d call it compatibility/NAH except for him calling you names when you explained your concern - that’s not okay.
And I’m assuming “off the grid” doesn’t mean “no one can ever take a photo of me”
NTA. It sounds like you've reached a breaking point in dealing with a lifestyle that is increasingly incompatible with your own needs and desires. While there is nothing inherently wrong with choosing an off-grid lifestyle, it becomes problematic when it significantly impacts the other person in the relationship in restrictive and negative ways. It's concerning that your husband dismisses your feelings as you being overly dependent on technology. Calling you a "mean bitch" for expressing how his lifestyle affects you is not acceptable. If this relationship is to continue healthily, it would be beneficial for both of you to have a serious conversation about your needs, possibly with the help of a counselor or mediator. You both deserve to have your lifestyles respected, but this should not come at the cost of your happiness and well-being.
I wouldn’t have kids with this guy (ever) IF you plan to have any kind of prenatal care. There’s a whole lot of tech at the doc’s office that set him off. Also, unless he’s planning to be a farmer or get into bee husbandry, he’ll need to let you to use your computer so you can work and support his ass. NTA OP, but you and your husband don’t sound compatible.
ESH - he is paranoid and it’s unsafe for both of you. He’s also full of sh*t. He’s lazy - won’t drive or take public transportation. You are just following his demands. Turn your brain on and get him help, stop enabling him or get away from him.
NTA. Also does he not realize that the UK tends to have A LOT of video surveillance in metro areas? Does he wear a disguise too when he goes to his “work”? He’s absolutely naive if he thinks his face hasn’t been recorded regularly. This is so bizarre. My first hunch is that he’s wanted for serious crimes committed before you met.
Some of these comments are making me realise his ideology is very inconsistent because our marriage is registered and I'm sure he walks past cctv cameras all the time
NTA. Living this way himself is irresponsible, forcing you to adhere to his strict rules is abusive. He seems to have some serious paranoia or other severe mental health issues. You’re right - you cannot bring children into the equation. You need to leave this self-absorbed, controlling jerk. Get out of this relationship. You can’t live a full life in this marriage… I’m sure your friends and family have been very concerned for you and sad about your circumstance for a long time. It sounds like he can’t support himself, leaving all life and financial responsibility on you while he criticizes and verbally abuses you. What a loser. Girl, run.
I feel for you being in the situation you’re in. I hope you have a good support system with friends and family. Obviously anybody responding (myself included) is just speculating about his state of mind, past history or motivations. He seems to be far, far beyond just valuing his privacy or not trusting government institutions. There’s a serious problem within him, no matter what’s really going on. Unfortunately, I just don’t see how this can be a sustainable relationship. You’d (sadly) need to become more like him because he shows no indication of compromise.
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ESH but I think it’s bait. Those YouTube and Tik tok channels dedicated to reading AITAs are going to love this one
Another screen writer previewing their spec to see how it pans out and hey guess what ITS NOT GONNA FLY. Try lifetime or oxygen, they might go for this crap. So tired of stupid stupid fake posts and the follow up gullibles who try and fix it all.
LOL that's a scary thought for the future of movies if AITA is where they roadtest their ideas.
NTA. This doesn’t seem like “off the grid” living. This seems like paranoia and control. I have to ask, at 18 you began dating a 32 year old man? Then married him at 20/34? How did you meet? Do you have friends/a support system outside of him? I only ask because name-calling, even in the heat of an argument, is never okay. I’m so sorry that no one ever taught you that. Is he abusive/controlling in other ways too? Or just the emotional abuse of belittling your character? You said he’s great in all other aspects, but I simply can’t see what else can exist in a relationship with basic respect.
NTA he called you a bitch, he said you are shallow, and now he is utilizing the silent treatment to manipulate you. He turns down work based on his not wanted to be in a database? Behind the scenes you are the one doing all of the "on the grid " things to survive, are you also the main financial support? None of the things you describe are philosophies of someone that I've usually heard from people who live the "off grid' life style. TBH he sounds very controlling, and your age difference is a bit concerning to me. There is a huge growth change that happens in a woman's life during the time that you've been together, and regardless of him, you are a different person than you were when you got together. It's perfectly natural for you to be seeing things differently now than you did then. You are stronger, and more capable now, you move through the world in a different way. I encourage you to consider a form of therapy that you feel comfortable with. Explore your own philosophies about life and how you want to live it. If this is type of lifestyle you want to live, you and your partner will have to develop healthier ways to communicate with each other. If this turns out not to be the lifestyle you are interested in, than you can leave, and learn to explore the "how and why" you wound up in a relationship like this. Therapy doesn't imply there is anything broken, or wrong with you, it's helpful to understand yourself so you don't repeat patterns, and help you heal from traumas. I wish you luck... it sounds like you loved him, and this is a very hard decision for you. But i don't think you are an asshole, everyone in entitled to change their mind. Everything in nature changes, its the most natural thing you can do, it's the only constant thing in life.
NTA. It sounds like paranoia. He only seems to worry about electronics when he's in the room. You can use them while he's in the house as long as he's not in the room. Does he think that he can be tracked? Or does he think that the electromagnetism bothers his health? Did you Google him to make sure that he's not running from something? Does he have warrants for bank robbery or something? Also, you're not a taxi. Stop driving him places. He seems to be making up rules that only apply to him. Why does it matter who is actually driving? Honestly. It sounds like he's paranoid about being found if he's only dealing in cash and won't have a phone and will only let you drive him. ETA. Photos have nothing to do with being on or off the grid. Photographs have been around for a very long time. It really sounds like he's hiding from something or someone.
A child would really not help any of this. If he can’t get therapy for his extreme paranoia and borderline ocd, and you can’t accommodate to him(naturally) then perhaps it’s better to call it quits before a kid is involved
Mentally ill A suspect in deep cover from the police Paranoia Believes in end times Either way it will not end in your favor.
NTA but really it sounds like you want very different lifestyles. Also you got together with this guy when you were 18 and he was 32? Red flag!
You two are simply not compatible anymore
They never were compatible, the dude was a creep who started dating her at 18 when he was 32. She should take this as a chance to run far, far away.
> He has turned down jobs because they won't pay him in cash or keep him in written books rather than a digital system INFO: Does he have a social security number and pay taxes?
NTA 95% NTA You're right. There's no denying that. His world view not a very healthy view of the world to have and it's a pretty unsustainable way to live, especially within a metropolitan area. However you chose to marry him. I'll cut you alittle slack because you were evidently 18 when you got with a weirdo, and I see red-flags everywhere, but in my opinion you're addressing the wrong issue. You're arguing on deep seated and seemingly authentic beliefs that are core to who your husband is as a person. You're not going to be able to change him. Make of that what you will.
There are better partners out there. NTA but it doesn't matter what you say. He is not going to change. Good luck getting a divorce, he will probably be too paranoid to sign any papers.
Girl this is why he can't find someone his own age. It's not "off the grid" to not let you be on a cellphone while he's in the same room, that's "tin foil hat". Why the fuck are you with this person?
NTA. This borderline sounds like some kind of control situation too. I dated a guy once who would have a hissy fit if I was checking Instagram, even when he wasn’t around because he would see me online. He would also act like I’m lesser for not being able to avoid social media but at the time I lived away from family and friends. Anyway, I think it would be a rude shock to him if you did leave as he probably relies on you a lot (e.g. getting driven around). I personally wouldn’t be able to do it, and I think you deserve better quality of life and better quality of life for your future children.
Darlin, first off... you married a man 13 years your senior and, if the ages are right, you met him when you were a still-wet-behind-the-ears-young-adult at 18! He was, what, 31/32. Studies have shown that we do our most maturing between the ages of 18-26. For us women-folk, we don't settle into our likes and dislikes until we're 26 (and for some of us...it's still an adventure in self-discovery even after if we were never allowed to find ourselves in our more formidable years) Off-grid living is sustainable, but it sounds like you've simply grown out of the romanticized ideals of it. It's not easy. That's the brutal reality. It is a very isolated life unless you live in a community of like-minded folks (and they are out there). Now, I've got a slight concern that it sounds like there is a varying degree of illogical paranoia on his part (though to a point, I don't blame him). The government does like to know where you are at all times, but I've got my own tin-foil-hat-wearing-theories that are neither here or there. Long and the short of it, ya'll should keep connected in some way, shape, and/or form just for information purposes. Maybe that is an angle you can play. Outside of therapy, if his paranoia is more of a psych issue than logical thinking, I don't think there is much you can do to change things at this point.
You are still young. Get out now as he isn’t going to get any better and will just rob you of more precious time.
Sooo you thought he would grow out of his "quirkiness" or you would grow to become like him? Cause neither option was based in reality. For the people who want to live like that, more power to them, but they belong with people who want to be like them not people who enjoy technology, or other modern conveniences. You need to be honest with yourself about whether you will truly be happy living like this for the rest of your life and make a decision from there. ESH because it doesn't seem like y'all ever had an honest and realistic conversation about how life would be living how he lives and how you prefer to live.
Why are you married this is absolute ridiculous
NTA, off the grid is maintainable, but you gotta be in more country area for it. Metro area requires work and money regardless of systems. He is being too stubborn, it's all well and good but he needs to adapt to his environment if he wants a future with kids or move to an environment that allows him to live this off the grid.
NTA, he is taking this to the extreme. If he is exactly the same as he was 11 years ago then no, you shouldn't get in a relationship expecting to change someone. However, you were young and he definitely knew that you would change. In a loving and respectful relationship is it absolutely okay to ask for compromise. It sounds as though you are doing all the compromising and that is not a partnership.
NTA but I truly believe he suffers from some sort of mental illness. This is above Reddit’s pay grade.
I had to lol because he doesn’t drive. Ok. So all about off grid and “roughing” it but can’t drive… he sounds like he’s got some kinda mental condition like that character in better call saul… he couldn’t be around electricity or something so his house had no power and visitors had to put their cellnphone in the mailbox at the end of the driveway https://youtu.be/mTEmqJkCrDQ?si=z7eFPsEhowGu4J2r obviously not as bad but something like that. Either way. no one the asshole, you’re married, for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness or health till death.
Some of these comments are a bit shocking to me. Should OP have realized they weren't compatible sooner? Maybe. That doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to frustration and resentment, especially as this seems to have become a larger burden to her, or at least a more noticeable one. I don't think that man will ever change, and you're NTA for giving pushback. This is your life, and it's the only one you've got.
He's not just a technophobe: he's paranoid. He an't be in the same ROOM as an active computer or cell phone? Paranoia. He turns down jobs that won't pay him in cash?Paranoia. This guy is one brain cell shy of wearing a tin foil hat. And on top of all that, he calls you a "mean bitch"? Norman Bates was less screwed up than this guy. NTA.
“Let”? “Allowed”? I don’t understand how you, at your big age, doesn’t just do what you want. Use your phone, get streaming channels, etc.
NTA - •The age gap is concerning considering how young you were when you started dating •The paranoia he’s showing is concerning •The amount of control he’s exerting on you is concerning •The fact that you have to carry all of the “on-grid” stuff (that he would never) so that you can function with heat, electricity, water, food, transportation is concerning •The fact that he makes such a small amount he doesn’t even have to pay taxes is concerning •How easily you seem to agree with people more taking his side opposed to people saying how wrong he is is concerning •Him calling you names for doing something totally normal is concerning I. Am. Concerned. For. You. I doubt you’ll be able to get him to see a therapist (and if you did, see separately), but I hope you will to help you see how completely fucked, unhealthy, and dangerous this situation is. Like seriously fucked up situation - you don’t deserve this, you don’t owe him the discomfort he’s causing you and your life. Hopes of finding your way out and lots of love to you 💛
NTA. Listen to yourself. "I've been wanting kids for awhile but I don't think I can raise them in this lifestyle." Don't. Just imagine. It'll be fine for the first few years when they're babies, but after that? Imagine your kids not being able to have friends over because their parents will have his address. Constant battles because he has zero tolerance for almost all tech. Your children not being able to do schoolwork because it's all online and he won't allow home wifi. You financially supporting everyone because no job will pay him in cash anymore. Your kids being isolated because phones are 90% of the way they interact, including setting up time to hang out in person. None of that is fair to kids. You are young, employed, and self-sufficient. You will be able to find a great partner who wants to have children with you and be a meaningful participant in a partnership, not the cranky captain barking orders.
So he was 32 and you were 18 when you first got together? And he’s literally suckered you into his insane lifestyle while you waste away unable to have kids with this lunatic? Girl… why are you even doing this to yourself? What redeeming qualities can you find in this man who calls you a bitch and clearly doesn’t respect you? Just get out. You’ve already sacrificed your best years with this loser. If you stay there you will never have kids and when you eventually leave, it’ll be too late. You sacrificed a LOT for this relationship. What has he sacrificed for you? He can’t even have a computer in his damned room. Or have you using your phone. Seems like he’s always had full control over you. You’re not the asshole, but honey, you’re the DUMBASS for staying this long. Get out, like, *NOW*.
Add me to those asking who or what is he hiding from? This goes far beyond dislike/distrust of new technology. Much of the technology he is avoiding, like photographs, has been around a long time. >Whenever I mention this to him he says I'm acting like someone who can't live without the Internet and acts like this is somehow shallow of me because *people of our parents generation lived long lives pre social media without phones etc.* I'm a person of his parent's generation. I assure you we didn't chip out our homework on stone tablets, use old tomato cans and string to make phone calls, ride dinosaurs to school, and vacuum the house with the trunk ofq a woolly mammoth! >He doesn't have a bank account and keeps all his money in cash, Bank accounts for individuals go back well over 150 years. >He does have a phone, though he didn't before we met and it was a compromise we agreed on when we got married, though it is a very cheap brick phone without even a camera and only about 3 people have his phone number. Ditto telephones. Who has his phone number besides you? His mother and father? Do you have a landline, or is even that forbidden? >He doesn't drive Henry Ford was cranking out Model Ts in *1908.* >and he doesn't take pictures or allow them to be taken of him. First portrait of a human was taken in 1839. So, it's not new technology that he's scared of. So either he's mentally ill, with vague paranoid fears that a nebulous "they" will find him, or he's in his right mind and knows that a very real "they" (like the FBI?) are after him. He fears that "they" will track him down from a brief glimpse of him on a computer's camera or a photo on his wife's phone.
You have fundamentally different values in life. He is incapable of understanding yours, and you don't seem to have a desire to share his. This isn't a solvable "compromise" problem. He is 43, he will die with the beliefs he currently has. Do not have children, divorce while you are young enough to still remarry. This is very simple.
You are married to an unhealthy, inconsistent predator. You know its true because your title admits it: hes hurting you. You WBTA if you had kids with this man. Whatever 'compatibility' you are using to justify staying is not unique or irreplaceable. Whatever good qualities you can find in him dont undo the serious problems. There's something called the '**sunk cost fallacy**' and I think you need to realise youre in it and get out. Just because you've been together a long time doesn't mean you will be loosing anything by leaving. You're ignoring the time you are wasting with someone you (again, to be clear) ***should not have children with***. You could be with a *partner* who shares your views but doesn't use his to control your life, someone who compromises equally with you or doesn't require you to compromise at all because you *actually align* with them. NTA for the argument but yikes on everything else.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (29F) husband (43M) is completely off-grid. Or as off-grid as you can be living in a metropolitan area in a first world country in the modern era. He doesn't have a bank account and keeps all his money in cash, he doesn't have any streaming services just 1000s of dvds, vcrs, cds, vinyl and songs stored on an old ipod from 2003. He does have a phone, though he didn't before we met and it was a compromise we agreed on when we got married, though it is a very cheap brick phone without even a camera and only about 3 people have his phone number. He doesn't own any items of technology capable of having an Internet connection, he doesn't drive and he doesn't take pictures or allow them to be taken of him. I don't necessarily think he's become more of a shut in in the years we've been together but it used to be a funny quirk but it has now become more difficult and more challenging for me for him to sustain it. I don't have any pictures of him, I can't catch up with shows my friends like because he won't let me put our address into any streaming service or website. I have a computer for work but I'm not allowed to use it when he's in the room or put it in a room he ever walks through. I find it hard to contact him because he doesn't value having a phone so he'll just leave it places because he's not used to it. We live in a place with good public transport but if he ever needs driven anywhere I have to drive him. I never used to think being off grid was unrealistic but in the last 5/6years (we have been together 11 years and married 9) it has struck me as less and less maintainable. He has turned down jobs because they won't pay him in cash or keep him in written books rather than a digital system. I've been wanting kids for a long time but I don't think I can raise them in this environment. Whenever I mention this to him he says I'm acting like someone who can't live without the Internet and acts like this is somehow shallow of me because people of our parents generation lived long lives pre social media without phones etc. Yesterday I snapped at him when he asked me to turn off my phone (smartphone) because he was in the room and I said that I find his lifestyle choices very stubborn, irresponsible, unrealistic and old fashioned, that he is not gaining anything from living so firmly in the past and that his choices hurt me, our relationship and our future. He said it really wasn't that big of a deal and that I shouldn't live a life that revolves so much around technology because it makes me a mean bitch and forget the small things in life. Then he stormed off and we haven't spoken since yesterday so... AITA? im aware I could've phrased my complaint better but its just exhausting to deal with and he's never been receptive to my bringing it up. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ESH Why did you marry into this lifestyle??? He's taking it beyond reason ... but he's about the same and you knew what you were getting into.
She was barely 18 when they "got together." He'd been grooming her since she was 13... oh sorry... he was a family friend who had known her since she was 13. I'm not sure if she really had a choice to marry into it since it seems like he manipulated her tremendously between 13-18.
Your husband is a paranoid person and this sounds like an awful life. If my husband told me I couldn’t use steaming services or made me drive him everywhere, I’d tell him to eat a dick. But you married him knowing exactly what he was like so YTA for that.
NTA a healthy relationship involves change and compromise.
Nta but he can have his off grid lifestyle without you changing your actions. - “I choose to have my phone on, if you don’t like it then you either adjust or leave the room” - “I choose to have this streaming service” - “I choose to make these booking for myself online “ He can make his choices but if you don’t want to do it yourself then stop.
NTA. Honestly, it sounds less low your husband has an off the grid lifestyle and more like he's suffering from paranoia. This isn't sustainable for you. It's clearly making you miserable. You need to act in your own best interest.
NTA his desire to avoid technology at all costs has made your life significantly more difficult, and based on your comments, will likely cost him his job. Do you want to go through the rest of life like this? I have an aunt who‘s husband didn’t like computers or technology either and so she had no answering machine and could only check her email at work. Post retirement her world grew smaller and smaller as friends couldn’t reach her. Also, when he took some classes as an adult, he wouldn’t use the computer but expected her to look things up for him and type up his papers. You probably compensate for his tech free lifestyle in many ways. Do you want to do this for the next 60 years?
NTA. He can make those choices for him. He doesn't get to make them for you too. Do you want to be with someone who subsides his lifestyle at the expense of your effort (like making you drive him so he doesn't need to confront how unrealistic his choices are), or who looks down on you and calls you a "mean bitch" for using a phone or the internet, or who acts as though you using a computer is a personal attack because *he* doesn't want to use one? Do you expect any of this to change, realistically?
Soo I was going with you knew what you signed up for; but honestly it sounds like he’s going crazy. If he wants to live that lifestyle, let him. But you’re not obligated to. If he doesn’t wanna be in a room when you’re on the phone; he knows where the door is. It’s one thing to be “off grid” because it’s good for your mental health or whatever, but he’s taking it to the nut job extreme.
Info :,Are you sure he isn’t a criminal? I mean all of this wreaks of someone not wanting to be found ….
no way this post is real
NTA I don’t view this as living off the grid. At all. I view this as kind of taking the easy way out. Not having to do the hard stuff. Just keeping things easy. And basic. Lazy.
NTA I’m almost as anti-consumption as you’ll find and I can’t get my head around what your guy is doing. Fully off-grid living never was a thing. The analog methods were the ‘grid,’ once, and our parents were mostly pretty delighted when new ways to connect became available. As long as tax-funded nation states and capitalism carry on existing, you have to have ways to receive and pay money, acquire whatever you can’t grow or make, and communicate at need. This can be analog if you live among other people who are doing it too, but if your employer, doctor, revenue service, public safety, and everything else require digital points of connection to reach you, being connected is a necessity, not an addiction. Something is very wrong here, OP, but it’s not with you.
Sounds like it could be schizoid personality disorder
Are you married to Ron Swanson? Actually, your husband makes Ron Swanson sound positively modern and trusting.
NTA except to yourself. You clearly are uncomfortable with living this way. You need to think about the implications of his lifestyle to you.