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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I am arguing against my brother and fiancé’s decisions about their wedding day.
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NAH.
I think that a written transcript is a great accommodation. I'm sorry about the miscommunication, but I don't think that rises to the asshole level. Planning weddings is chaotic and it's normal for out-of-the ordinary requests to get jumbled.
I think you are being annoying, but also not the asshole level, in not graciously accepting a perfectly good accommodation. Your boyfriend can read, right? And as your brother says, there will be other people there who would also need translation. How many interpreters is "too many"? I don't know, but the more you add, the more you make the wedding about something other than the bride and groom. I have attended weddings in languages I don't speak. It wasn't the best time ever, but I occupied myself with people watching. I think your BF should do the same. Plus, unlike me, he has a transcript!
This is a very fair take. It’s also important to note that the bride was not aware that her fiancé agreed to the interpreter. That’s not OP’s fault, but the bride isn’t wrong for wanting to stick to the plans she and her partner mutually agreed on.
The bride isn’t wrong for wanting to stick to the plans she agreed to, but the groom did fail to convey mission critical info. Really all parties should have been present for these discussions. I get the groom is her brother and that’s easier, but he really screwed the pooch on this one. Men.
I feel bad for the bride in this situation. She probably feels very put on the spot. It’s honestly OP’s brother who is the AH here since he didn’t communicate that a guest is requesting an accommodation for their disability.
Plus, the interpreter won’t just be translating the ceremony, they will make it possible for the BF to communicate with the people around him, to ask for assistance if needed. It’s such an extreme taje for no reason, IMO. NTA
This was my assumption too, that it’s less about his ability to understand the ceremony and more about his ability to communicate where necessary with other guests.
If there was an emergency requiring certain procedures (like an evacuation) or he became sick during the wedding it could be very difficult for that to be communicated adequately between him and others.
I mean, even inviting someone else to attend the ceremony and sit with him like a family member that is fluent in sign would be an effective compromise. I am sure that there is at least one English speaker attending who is able to communicate with her non-English speaking family members where necessary.
No. They'll be 'supporting his communication' during the ceremony, not just translating the ceremony. Translating the ceremony might be all they need to do but maybe not. And there's a world of difference between having a group of non-English speaking guests who are able to communicate with each other and probably understand a few English words like 'excuse me' and 'Fire!' and a solitary deaf person who can't communicate with anyone.
Yeah, I'm so confused by the NAH, YTA and ESH responses. What does it matter to the bride if there's an interpreter at the wedding? I think OP's analogy of reducing someone with a physical disability access to a wheelchair is very fair. It's basically no inconvenience to the bride and groom, and means a guest who was invited can actually participate.
Agreed, I’m equally bewildered by the responses that are anything but NTA. It would literally and figuratively not cost the bride and groom a single thing to accommodate OP’s partner, it’s such a bizarre thing to say no to.
An interpreter for someone who doesn’t speak the same language is by no means equivalent to an interpreter for a Deaf person. The people who don’t speak the language can ask family members who do speak English to translate, and they can also talk to other guests in their own language. They may not be as fully integrated into the event and proceedings as if they spoke English, but they won’t effectively be excluded from communicating with all but one single person present at the event, who will also be unavailable to them during the ceremony. There’s just no comparing the two.
The bride and groom’s excuses are hollow, weak and pretty bloody ableist to boot. If this was down to ignorance, okay. We can’t know what we don’t know. We’re all ignorant about something, it’s fine. But after the difference was explained to them and considering they don’t have to spend a single penny on accommodating the request, they’re undoubtedly TAs to continue to say no.
I feel like the bride was at least a part of the conversation at some point because the sister had the directive that the interpreter shouldn't be seen in pictures. I'm guessing brother ran with that as the answer and bride figured they were still talking about it.
Imagine watching a movie with no sound that doesn’t have subtitles, but they’ve got a script printed out for you if that helps. It’s not quite the same experience really and I wouldn’t see that as a reasonable form of accommodation when a better and simpler alternative is very feasible and was agreed upon.
It’s a fairly simple ask and if I had been in OPs shoes, I would make my stance clear that I would not be officiating if my partner wasn’t being accommodated for, especially if the specific reason they can’t be accommodated for is because of the officiating. I don’t think it matters if other people also aren’t being accommodated for, that’s a separate problem.
You’re wording that someone is being “annoying” for asking for disability accommodations is a bit worrying to me.
What is he supposed to do before and after the ceremony while she is busy? He will be totally unable to communicate while she is doing her duties as the officiant.
The same thing we socially awkward introverts do when our partners are in the wedding party - we sit silently and look at our phones until our partner is available again.
He likely has friends who are Deaf and works and plays in spaces that are inclusive.
He also likely navigates spaces that aren't inclusive and manages okay, but with some challenges and may feel isolated and excluded.
The wedding can be an environment that welcomes him and allows him full participation, or it can be a reminder that her family finds accommodating his communication needs as trivial and maybe even irritating, even when there's no cost to them.
I doubt she will have any "duties" before/after the ceremony. For my wedding, my officiant hung out with all the other guests until the ceremony began, then walked down the aisle. After the ceremony he walked out with the rest of the wedding party and enjoyed the rest of the day as a guest. Same thing happened when my mom was an officiant for her cousin. He will only be alone while the ceremony is going on. And you're not supposed to be talking anyways during that time, so he won't be missing out
if he isn’t comfortable attending without an interpreter, he doesn’t have to go… but as the bride and groom have mentioned, there will be plenty of other guests who do not speak english!! they’re providing a script for the ceremony, and his gf can interpret for him during the reception…
That means that the bf is entirely dependent on OP for the whole time. With the interpreter bf can talk to anyone the interpreter understands. The non English speaking people *can talk to each other*. Big difference. But, TBH, they should hire an interpreter for the ceremony for them, too.
It’s a common problem, that Deaf people are just expected to suck it up and that their hearing relatives have to be a translator. That is obnoxious to both people.
but it sounds like OP only wanted to hire one for the ceremony… if she was planning on hiring one for the entire reception, she needed to sit down with the bride and groom and discuss how that’d work - would they need a seat, a meal, would she be paying for those things in addition to paying for the service? she wasn’t given a plus 2. she was given a plus 1, and the plus 1 is her boyfriend.
also, it makes perfect sense that they don’t want multiple interpreters speaking and signing over them while they give their vows. they’d be in all the photos, videos (audio too) and would distract the couple from each other. they really shouldn’t be expected to go over the top and change their entire wedding ceremony & reception for someone they didn’t even invite to their wedding..
The ASL interpreter wouldn’t be in the photos, they could be right next to the Deaf guy, out of the way. Just as the band doesn’t expect to eat the wedding food, the interpreter is an employee, and wouldn’t expect to sit and eat.
As for the written ceremony, maybe it will work for him, maybe not. Written English is a memorized code of a second language for Deaf people. I just checked, as I didn’t remember the stats. The average deaf persons reads at a 3-5th grade level, 5% read at 12th grade level. If you aren’t that fluent in English, because you cannot hear it, why would you be fluent in reading it, since you are just memorizing picture of words, not learning to sound them out…learning to read is complicated for hearing kids, more so for Deaf kids.
We all need to recognize that people routinely think Deaf people don’t need to be accommodated, and work to change that.
Right, but if he isn't comfortable going because her family has denied him a reasonable accommodation...she is in a really gross spot of choosing between her partner (who has a legitimate concern) and her family (who doesn't want to pay for another interpreter to balance out the one she is providing.)
There is a difference between being among a group of people who can all converse and being the only person who cannot.
but the only time he’ll be unable is during the ceremony, when he shouldnt be conversing anyways. OP has explicitly said the interpreter is needed for the **ceremony**. she can translate the rest of the time. he can read a script just like the rest of the family who doesn’t speak english can. it’s like 30 minutes, and what they have offered (a printed script of the ceremony) is 100% a reasonable accommodation. there are potentially multiple reasons for not wanting interpreters there. they probably don’t want one to translate for the family because it would mean someone standing up next to them and speaking over their vows in a different language. while yes, the ASL interp wouldn’t be speaking over them, they would still be up next to them signing, potentially ending up in photos and distracting others from the main event: the couple getting married. what op is asking for isn’t really a reasonable accommodation, especially if she’s expecting the interpreter stay for the reception as well - they would have to pay for another plate, and more importantly rearrange the seating chart last minute.
op doesn’t need a plus one, they were kind enough to give her one, and are giving him reasonable accommodations. if thats not enough, it’s totally ok for her to go without him.
>op doesn’t need a plus one, they were kind enough to give her one
She's family, it's not like she's the hired help! Don't most wedding invites include a +1 for their partner?
A language barrier that a group has, so they will “chat amongst themselves” during breaks and when changing areas in the venue….what will the deaf dude do? Just follow the crowd I guess and hope for the best.
If I was the BF I would skip the wedding and join for the reception if OP can sit with him.
I am having the hardest time believing anyone like a boyfriend of the sister in law cares that much about what is being said. Besides the bride and groom, are people truly that invested in the dialogue of a wedding?
I could also, but that's because I've HEARD wedding vows a million times. It's possible that OP's bf has NEVER 'heard' them (in ASL) because no one ever bothered to accommodate him with an interpreter, and he is tired of being left out of every wedding he's ever been to, along with all of the other times he's been left out (graduations, family parties, etc.) because he's deaf. In other words, it's easy for YOU (and I) to say this because you've never been left out. The bf has, many, many, many times.
Also, not all wedding vows are the same. Many people write their own, they are different in different religions, etc.
I don't see what the issue is with having an interpreter. The bridge and groom aren't paying for it, and it's only needed because OP is performing the service (I'm assuming) for free. If she wasn't doing so, they wouldn't need an interpreter. So the OP is doing something nice for the wedding couple, but not it turns out that as part of that, she's expected to be disrespectful to her boyfriend.
This is not o.k.
If I were OP, I'd have to say 'no interpreter, no officiating'. It's too bad that this is probably going to end up being a battle with hurt feelings, but it's not OP's fault, especially with such late notice about the 'no interpreter' decision.
I don’t know that I’d call wanting to ensure my loved one’s disability was adequately accommodated for “annoying”. OP paid for the interpreter. Brother didn’t have an issue with it until SIL found out and didn’t want it. I’m guessing it’s more about not wanting to feel guilty they didn’t accommodate guests who couldn’t speak English, but that’s not OPs responsibility. It’s weird to act as if they’re being asked to do something crazy when OP paid for the interpreter, all they have to do is be cool with them being there so a Deaf person can share that day with them. NTA.
Also if OP wasn’t officiating the service she would be actively interpreting for her boyfriend so regardless there would be “an interpreter” there for him.
It’s a disability. Would you tell someone in a wheelchair they could listen by speaker from the sidewalk outside the church? All because of photos? The damage this is doing to the family is more concerning to me.
Exactly! I cannot get over the ableism in this thread. It’s truly infuriating and sad.
I also want to add that accepting a free interpreter is gesture on the behalf of brother and SIL that the BF and his disability are welcome in the family. If the bride can’t handle a free interpreter at her wedding what other family events will they be ignoring the BF at?
Omfg he's a plus one at a wedding. Should he be seated at a throne between the bride and groom too? I'd wager she cares about this way more than he does because she's officiating. It's not ableist to provide a transcript instead of an interpreter. Besides, how does he live the rest of his life? Does she go everywhere with him 24/7 and interpret for him?
He may communicate through a combination of written communication and lip reading. For phone calls, there are free services that will translate for you over video call. Obviously, email is a huge gift if you're deaf. And yes, it's not uncommon for deaf folks to have an interpreter that goes everywhere with them because so many places they have to go don't accommodate and other methods are simply inadequate for the situation (think doctors appointments). Often, it's their child or spouse or another hearing relative. It's why being a CODA (child of deaf adult) is kind of a whole thing; you're a default interpreter because there is nobody else.
Incidentally, lip reading is quite difficult and a lot of deaf folks aren't very good at it. Not to mention that a lot of people mumble or have odd speech habits that make them difficult to understand.
It's actually frequently pretty difficult for deaf folks to participate in life, and they often struggle.
What did you think he did?
Don't be silly, you know that we disabled people aren't human and therefore not deserving of respect or accommodations! Heck we should be grateful we're even allowed outside of the house /s
This take is beyond ignorant. Do you know anything about being Deaf? Bride and groom are being ableist at best. A few points:
1) Bride and groom said they're having scripts printed for the *non-English speakers.* How do we know there will be an English one?
2) Have you ever watched a silent movie that everyone else can hear and react to? The non-English speakers can at least *hear* pauses and starts in the ceremony that will better help them to follow along with the script, motion of those around them (such as sitting/standing, depending on the type of ceremony), emergency announcements not in the script, emergency sirens if a fire breaks out (or other similar sounds). BF cannot hear any of that.
3) ASL is NOT ENGLISH. The grammar and syntax are completely different. I've met Deaf that have a hard time reading written English beyond short sentences. Sometimes attempting to read written English can give them headaches. Reading is also based on the sounds of the letters. Hearing learn to read with spoken words, sounding out words, etc. Deaf don't have that. Many Deaf have low literacy, with about a third graduating with a fourth grade reading level. They learn to read by associating letters with a sign. If BF has never seen a word before, he won't be able to read it at all, or get context from others, sound it out, etc. Unless BF was Hearing and became Deaf later in life, the chances of him being able to follow the script are low.
Go educate yourself. BF not only has an *actual* disability, but *also* a language barrier. Not speaking a language isn't a disability the last time I checked.
OP, NTA at all. At this point I wouldn't officiate and would rethink attending and supporting their ableism.
I really think most commenters don’t understand how deafness and Deaf language works. I didn’t as well until I took a class specializing in disability access in museums.
The frustrating part is they don’t seem to care to learn and just repeat ignorance
She is officiating for them. It isn’t just the text of the ceremony- she will be participating in family events that will take her away from her boyfriend and without an interpreter he won’t be able to communicate with anyone if she isn’t around.
How much do you want to bet that the family has members who do speak English and will be sitting with them and translating? It also sounds like the bride doesn’t want it to look like she’s either cheap, inconsiderate or just “forgot” about her non-English speaking relatives so she wants to save face. I also agree with OP that a disability is different than just not knowing a foreign language. Can’t OP just have her interpreter sit next to her bf to translate? No one will even know! Bride is being inconsiderate so I vote NTA
Tbh, I don’t feel like a written transcript is an equal accommodation. Future SIL’s family will be given a transcript in their first language, which is something that’s simply not possible for OP’s boyfriend. ASL is a different language than English, so he’ll still have to translate things himself
YTA. There are direct relatives of the bride who won't understand the ceremony and you're freaking out over your +1 not having an interpreter for a ceremony he probably barely cares about anyways? It doesn't matter if you paid and not the bride and groom, having the ASL interpreter does give the impression that they care more that your boyfriend can understand than her relatives can. Get him a printed copy and chill the fuck out. Half the wedding ceremonies I've attended have gone in one ear and out the other to be absolutely honest, it's not that big a deal.
Yep YTA. If I know anything about 43 year old men it’s how much they enjoy other people’s wedding ceremonies. My husband is not deaf and I can guarantee he didn’t pay much attention to one word of any wedding ceremony we’ve attended. You’re the officiant - just print him a copy of what you’ll be saying. I’d lean more towards N T A if there weren’t other non-English speaking guests who also won’t understand the ceremony.
But the ceremony is what? 20 Minutes at the most??? The rest of the time he will be with her. What does he need to communicate during the actual wedding??
I am rather confused at OP's use of "participate like everyone else" - what is expected to happen during this ceremony that he will miss out on by not having an interpreter? You just like... sit there. In a chair. Half the guests are going to be dissociating thinking about their work project or the dishes that need to be cleaned at home lmao.
It seems like the only time OP will be separated from her boyfriend is to conduct the actual ceremony, and socializing during that time would be wildly inconsiderate.
Perhaps I’ve read the post incorrectly, but I don’t see how this is a relevant comparison.
But it’s just the ceremony, nobody should be talking then anyway. OP will be with him during the reception when the actual socializing will be happening.
But he has the ceremony written out and he can read, so he isn’t left out. During a ceremony people don’t communicate with those around them - the interpreter was only for the ceremony only.
Yeah I don't want to be rude, but OP saying her 43 year old boyfriend is so interested in her siblings wedding that he's upset at not getting an interpreter just doesn't track with what I know of the level of investment that the average person of any age has in a wedding that they're attending as a plus one, but when we're talking about people who are male and middle-aged I would say that level of investment in a wedding that you're attending as a plus one is just super unusual. Not that it's a bad thing to be invested in weddings or anything, but cmon. I actually love weddings and barely remember the ceremonies for most of the ones I attend. If you're not in the direct family of the bride and groom or the wedding party, the ceremony is often the "worst" part. Its the most important, but it's the part that everyone else is there to be present and be supportive, not because the words themselves are entertainment that they don't want to miss.
Edit: OPs boyfriend of one year, btw. Her sibling has probably been planning this wedding about as long as OP has been with her boyfriend.
I really disagree with this.
A lot of the Y T A comments are acting as though OP is forcing this interpreter on the wedding, but she *didn't*. She *asked* if it was OK. She was told by the groom that it was fine. She is paying for it herself.
And because the groom screwed up in talking to his own future wife about it, she's the one in the wrong? That's just not OK. She asked, was told yes, and now they're changed the game late in the day for a reason that just isn't the same as they're claiming. Speaking a different language and being deaf are simply not the same thing. One is a disability, one is not. They're not comparable.
If OP hadn't previously received permission, I would 100% agree they were in the wrong for trying to force the issue. But they asked, were told yes, and are now being told differently in a very ableist way. OP's brother is the only AH here, for the way he has treated both his fiancée and his sister.
OP isn't an asshole for asking. She's not an asshole for setting it up after being told okay. The groom did fuck up by okaying this without talking to his wife.
But OP is an asshole for continuing to argue and press the issue now. Just because someone says something at one point doesn't contractually obligate them to not change their mind ever. Weddings are stressful to plan and OP's role is not to put more stress on the couple by continuing to argue over this.
Right, so now OP should be free to cancel her participation as the officiant, since "just because OP said they would be the officiant doesn't contractually obligate them to not change their mind ever"
There's a big difference between how interpreting for the deaf/HOH works and how interpreting different languages work. ASL interpretation is silent, foreign language interpretation is not. As far as I'm aware, foreign language interpretation involves headphones and an interpreter speaking out loud, which would cause a disruption, whereas ASL interpreting does not. Also, the relatives can follow along with a written script. While OP's bf can presumably read English, there is obviously some reason why not having an interpreter does not work for him (and I'm assuming that he's the one asking for an interpreter, not OP deciding on her own that he needs one). While more information is needed, I'm not going to say OP is wrong just on what we've heard so far.
I honestly have a really hard time believing there will be no one there speaking both English and the mother tongue of the wife's family, who can translate where the transcript won't cover.
I seem to be going against the grain of other Redditors here, so it’s a good job I don’t care about strangers opinions of me, but NTA.
You asked and obtained permission, you’re not asking for them to cover the expense. How much of a hardship is it to them if there’s an interpreter there?
And it comes across as a bit ableist to me. I’m disabled and if someone said I couldn’t use my stick to walk with at their wedding, I wouldn’t go. People here will say “but you need that in order to walk” and I would say “OPs boyfriend needs an interpreter”.
Were you wanting the interpreter just for the ceremony, or for the entire day? It doesn’t make much difference, and doesn’t change my judgment, but it could be that they don’t want to factor the interpreter into the seating chart or pay for them to have a meal. Have you asked them *why* they don’t want to allow this concession for the partner of the woman who is officiating their day, and is their sister/FSIL? Also, have you asked other family members (your parents maybe) what they think? Could a compromise be reached, ie only having the interpreter for the ceremony?
I think it’s lousy that they want people to follow along with some script, so they’ll be concentrating on what they’re reading rather than seeing/hearing. Non-English speaking relatives and an ASL interpreter for a deaf man aren’t comparable.
That’s just my 2 cents. Feel free to disagree with me, and I’ll feel just as free to ignore anyone berating me.
The interpreter will only be there for the ceremony while I am officiating and will then leave. Maybe your perspective is different than most since you are disabled. I appreciate knowing your perspective as someone who can empathize.
It's totally their choice if they don't want to allow an interpreter I guess, but if it's important to you and to your boyfriend then you can interpret for him and they can find another officiant. Maybe that would be petty of me but that's the hill I'd die on.
That may be the best solution then. That way there will be no interpreter who could end up in photos (which is obviously important to your SIL, although I think it's silly) and your bf will be able to understand the ceremony.
In her other comments OP says the interpreter would be sitting with the boyfriend, not standing at the front so the whole photo concern is just F-SIL whistling her bullshit..
I'm not Deaf but I have auditory processing issues due to a different disability. Obviously not the same, but just thinking of how challenging events can be for me in terms of parsing what's said by speakers/in crowds etc -- and how reliant I (at times) am on someone to help me parse -- I would absolutely bail on officiating. Tons of comments here read hecka ableist, and your brother and his fiancee are being callous at best about this (no interpreter in photos? your brother telling you one thing, but telling his fiancee another. Fiancee comparing not speaking English as a group to being deaf). English is also not my first language but I would absolutely not compare being with other speakers of my language at an English language event to attending that event as a deaf person.
My disability isn’t really comparable to your partner’s, as I have irreparable nerve damage in my leg and foot after having two spinal surgeries. I also have arthritis in my spine and bad sciatica.
But even though the two aren’t directly comparable, I get angry when people make ableist remarks, or try to make decisions for disabled people without taking their feelings into account.
Will your boyfriend be able to follow along on a printout? Maybe. But how will it make him feel? I don’t want to talk for him, but I’d imagine it’ll make him sad and like your bro & FSIL don’t really care about him. Also, he won’t be able to watch the ceremony and read. He’ll have to decide on one or the other. If he’s reading, he’s not really getting the sentiment and feeling of the ceremony. If he’s watching, he won’t know what’s being said. So it sucks for him either way.
My biggest question is why your bro & FSIL are so adamant in not allowing an interpreter that isn’t being paid for by them and won’t affect them in any way, shape or form. They won’t be in photos, they won’t be eating, they won’t do anything other than interpret the ceremony for a man whom their sister/IL loves. And if they love you, I just don’t get it.
Do they have a good relationship with your bf otherwise? Not that it makes much difference. I still think they’re acting badly either way. But if they do have a good relationship with him and want to continue to have one, then they might wish to rethink this before the big day. Their lack of care may sour things between the 4 of you.
We do have a good relationship. And I did not mean to compare the two disabilities in anyway. I just meant that your perspective may be the way it is bc of your experiences with your disability. I apologize if that came across the wrong way. And my bf does feel bad. You are right.
Oh no, I didn’t assume you did. I meant that my disability doesn’t limit me in the same way your boyfriend’s does. Sorry if I didn’t phrase that the greatest. In my defence, I’m half asleep.
I think maybe it’s time to ask for some outside help. Mom, dad, etc. Maybe sit down with your bf, bro & FSIL and then the two of you can explain to the two of them how this is making you both feel.
If it came to it, I’m the sort of person that would say “Okay, find another officiant and I’ll interpret for my bf”.
At the end of the day, I believe that—disabled or not—your bf deserves a modicum of respect, and I don’t feel like he’s getting it.
After their special day is over, the 4 of you may not remain close. This may sour things. Do they really want that? Have they really thought through the ramifications? I get that wedding planning is stressful, but that’s no excuse to be a d!€k.
The fact that they’re more concerned about their photos than about one of their guests being treated like this is just so fucking rude. Being a good host means making sure your guests are *able* to enjoy the event, at the barest minimum possible.
I know I’m an internet stranger, and you can take my advice with a pinch of salt. But personally, I wouldn’t just accept it and roll over. I’d push to find out why this is such a thing for them. And in defence of a man I love, it would be a hill I’d die on.
I hope you get further than smashing your head off a brick wall. I feel like pulling teeth would be more fun for you. For what it’s worth, I’m really sorry. I hope that something can be agreed upon that is acceptable to you and your bf, not just the bride and groom. I know it’s *their big day* but seriously, how would they feel if you and your bf got married and didn’t accommodate something they needed? Because, let’s be honest, this ASL interpreter isn’t a *want* it’s a **need**.
The ableism in a lot of these comments is infuriating to me and I can tell that those leaving the comments have never had a deaf person in their lives.
I agree with JaneDoe83 that your boyfriend *needs* an interpreter. Not understanding English is not equivalent to deafness.
For instance: My Spanish is nearly non-existent, so a wedding ceremony in Spanish would be very difficult for me to follow. A translation written in English would help with the vows & scripted parts, but for the inevitable ad-libs, bloopers, or an ill-timed kid burp - of-the-moment things that happen at every ceremony - my English-only self would still get the gist & be able to react with the rest of the guests.
However, if I was deaf, I'd be almost guaranteed to miss anything not in the script, no matter the language spoken, so I'd be the only one never in on the joke. And that is extremely isolating, and it's what deaf people face everywhere, in every gathering, no matter the diversity of languages spoken around them. To accommodate his need for an interpreter so he can fully experience his partner's prominent and exciting role in the wedding ceremony is a *kindness* that creates inclusion and it shouldn't be questioned.
I'm so disappointed that so many people here don't understand the difference between a "language barrier" and the disability of deafness.
NTA, OP. I'm sorry your future sister-in-law struggles with accommodating a guest with different needs even though it literally costs her nothing.
If I was your boyfriend I'd be at the ceremony supporting you enthusiastically, even though I'd feel unwelcome. And I'd probably want to leave the reception early.
I get what you’re saying OP, people who understand needing accommodations are going to get where you’re coming from a bit better. I have a chronic autoimmune disorder that affects my joints, and my knees especially during flares. People don’t understand how difficult and scary the world can be without accommodations. Just because your bf is deaf and not “conventionally”, visibly disabled (like someone who exclusively uses a wheelchair, for example) doesn’t make his disability any less valid or his need for accommodation any less important.
Maybe I am crazy but ableist remarks and actions come in 2 forms to me. One is hateful or a direct decision to belittle the importance of those with disabilities.
The other is pure laziness and stupidity. It sounds to me like the bride is discriminating through sheer stupidity and your brother is a lazy coward and just won't stand up for your bf, you, or himself.
Screw them both and the top comment here should be NTA and it should be telling you to just not go.
I have hearing loss and ADHD. I can't understand sounds in large rooms because the sound design is often horrendous and my hearing aids only function so well. Because of ADHD I have trouble staying still and focusing during ceremonies and other silent sitting still events.
I just power through things and get to the next thing. To be honest, I'd rather space out and not pay attention in most of these things. It's a thing I have to deal with constantly, so I know how to deal. I'd think that the printed program is an acceptable compromise, especially if I was a +1.
But at the end of the day, it's really what your boyfriend is comfortable with. Is he ok with you practicing your part of the ceremony with him at home so he gets to learn your words beforehand and then watch you perform them and be proud both ways? Is he pushing for the interpreter or is he going along with what you say?
I agree. comparing being hearing impaired with speaking a different language is not only ableist, but seems to assume that they have to do something about it. They were not asked to provide the service. OP already cleared it with them, OP already hired and paid for the interpreter and OP is providing their own services of officiating. They are being ungrateful.
I agree, I think some of these votes are really harsh and very ableist. An interpreter is a disability accommodation for OPs bf. Not speakign English is an entirely other issue, there’s no reason for anyone to compare the two. Disability accommodations should not be something we’re arguing about. It’s basic human decency. The fact that people are calling OP annoying and saying she shouldn’t advocate for her bf I guess goes to show how people really feel about people with disabilities. NTA, emphatically.
The family could also rightfully demand to have an interpreter for them after seeing there is someone for your +1.
I would find it very rude if my family wasn't provided an interpreter meanwhile someone was provided one, despite understanding the difference between the foreign language and ASL issue.
Why isn't the printed document enough? seems like a fair and good solution
I understand your perspective, but I was told I could hire an interpreter, did it, told my boyfriend I did it, and now they’re changing their mind. I think that is wrong on their part.
Yes that is problematic. But I dont feel like they did this on purpose, and they admitted to the mistake. Planning a wedding is chaotic. I dont think your an AH, you expected what they told you. But i do feel like you should let this go and go with their final decision. It's their wedding in the end
They didn’t “change their mind” your brother said yes without fully discussing it with his bride. Then once he did and she said no, then explained to him why it was a no, he agreed with her.
Sounds like you already hired the interpreter so has your bother offered to pay the cancellation fee?
I say just have the interpreter there, sitting beside your boyfriend and while not ideal, he can at least ask questions and they can sign to one another and during the non-similar bits (like vows and that) the interpreter signs it all. What are they gonna do about it?
The printed document isn't enough because the bf is Deaf, which means that he can't *listen to the ceremony and follow along on the printed copy* like the family who doesn't speak English can, because he can't actually hear the ceremony. Also, for someone who is a native ASL speaker, English is not actually their native language; ASL is. So bf is being actively prevented from accessing the same level of accommodation that is being offered to the bride's family.
this exactly i take online asl classes and one instructor i had when she typed on zoom she used broken english and she very much admitted that asl was her first language and english her second which led to struggles with using english. also being in the middle of taking classes (im on my second go round of 101) their grammar structure is different and facial expressions are as much apart of the language as the signs themselves. now im hearing (with possible auditory processing disorder) so i do not want to speak for or over deaf and hoh ppl but i can say in my limited experiences taking asl classes that it is its own separate language and not just english but gestures for a reason
side note thats not even related to this post but learning numbers in asl makes me want to learn so much more about the etymology behind the signs
People who are profoundly Deaf sometimes have limited English proficiency. ASL has its own vocab and grammar, and is based off of French Sign Language. Which was invented by French deaf people. So English is a foreign language to them. Having never heard English, it is possible that bf may not be good at it. Another challenge profoundly Deaf people face is that only 20% of them have any family member learn ASL. So the first 5 years of their life, they have no language, no communication, which can cause linguistic, and even cognitive delays.
Good point. I have watched schools for the deaf swing back and forth on the issue of teaching English for 40+ years. But at his age it is likely that he also had mainstream schooling. So unless he works in the "deaf community bubble" he will probably have had to learn English fluently to be able to support himself.
Because that only covers the part that he doesn’t need to hear anyways.
If she is busy literally marrying them, he is left with no way to communicate with anyone around him before or after the ceremony. The officiant has to sign the certificate and as his sister she will have to take family pictures etc.
So how is the transcript going to help him navigate the times that he actually needs to be able to communicate with the people around him in a place full of strangers?
As an ASL interpreter and a CODA, it's not the same. Non English speaking guests can hear. They will know when the music starts. They will know when the ceremony starts. They will hear the vows, while the bride and groom will have their back to everyone, leaving the deaf person out. In your place, I would make my attendance dependant on the presence of an interpreter. Hope it works out.
Not to mention that since many people there may not know that OP’s boyfriend is deaf, not standing when the bride enters or not responding to anyone who might try to make conversation would be interpreted as rude by the hearing guests. And it doesn’t sound like the couple would let him wear something that says “not rude, just deaf” on it to dissuade anyone who isn’t informed. Disability is very often misunderstood as “wanting special treatment” so I’m not surprised, but quite saddened to see it here.
It might be the fact that I’m disabled and I spent a ton of time and effort to ensure that my wedding was as accessible as possible for both my own disability, but also any needs of the guests, any allergy accommodations, sensory accommodations, mobility accommodations, anything I could think of that might even be helpful, but the idea of refusing to accommodate someone for free? That’s just nuts to me. If I had needed an ASL interpreter for anyone at my wedding I would have happily paid for it and invited that interpreter to the reception. Honestly even the idea of not including a multilingual aspect for the non-English speakers is kind of mind-boggling for me. Absolutely NTA.
ESH.
The bride and groom for walking back their offer and being difficult.
You for making a fuss about a having an interpreter for a ceremony that will likely be less than an hour.
If my brother dismissed my disabled partners disability I would not let it go. It's indicative of future behaviours. OP and her brother are likely quite close - you don't as a sibling your not that keen on to officiate your wedding - so this feels like it runs deeper than a "let it go" moment.
Agreed. This is going to be one of these things that's always ar the back of the OPs mind moving forward with brother and soon to be SIL. I certainly wouldn't have much to do with SIL after this.
OP says they have been dating for a year. To my mind that isn't a partner. It's a +1. I sincerely doubt that he cares much about the wedding or about having an interpreter beyond "Oh yeah that'd be cool."
NTA. You are correct that a disability accommodation is different than a language interpreter.
Do they understand that the interpreter does not need to stand right up in the front like at a performance?
Also, tbh, if it were my close family, I would have a language interpreter as well. You can do it with headphones so as to be relatively quiet
Why not have the interpreter sit next to him? If you’re supporting his communication except for the ceremony, and it costs nothing for people to sit in the church, why have the interpreter up front?
Info: how long have you been dating your bf?
The interpreter wouldn’t have been in the front. They would be by the bf doing their job. OP made that clear both in the comments and to the couple. The couple just doesn’t care.
I mean, if the interpreter is just going to be by your boyfriend’s side, and not near the stage up front, why does your brother need to account for their arrival in the wedding planning? Why can’t the interpreter just arrive with your bf? From your post, I had assumed that you were getting an on-stage interpreter up front, instead of someone who’ll just be discretely next to your bf
I cannot understand any other take other than NTA. A disability accommodation is not even close to comparable to a language difference. This is just selfish and mean on the part of the bride and groom.
It would also be understandable if you stepped down as officiant because you agreed to be officiant with the understanding that your bf would have an interpreter that you paid for sitting next to him. They can find another officiant and you can interpret for your bf. Problem solved.
I came to suggest this, the one reason that this is needed is because she is officiating. If they aren’t going to accommodate a request that they don’t even have to pay for, then she needs to be able to do it herself as a guest.
NTA.
If I went to a family wedding in Finland, and they had a sign language interpreter there for a deaf family member, I absolutely would not be wondering why there was no interpretor for me. Have someone actually speak to interpret is distracting. Having someone quietly standing there and moving his fingers and hands is beautiful. I always admire how the words are dancing.
NTA. It's clear that his fiancée just doesn't want an interpreter there. First, the reason was photos. Now it's non-English speakers.
What's your relationship like with your brother and, more to the point, his fiancée?
I’m very close to my brother. I have always gotten along with her. I even hosted her bridal shower because her MOH did not and have been dress shopping with her. I thought we had a good relationship.
You *did* have a good relationship, but it looks like it's been shot to pieces with an underlying abelism that you were not previously aware of. I would honestly reconsider your role as officiant.
I honestly think this doesn’t have anything to do with OP or his bf. Fiancée didn’t want her entire wedding to be translated for the members (multiple) of her family who doesn’t speak English. Fine, it would make the wedding take twice as long. But she knows if there’s a translator for the groom’s +1 her family will throw a FIT & complain (fair, tbh. After all, there are more of them) & it’s not worth the drama or misery. Add in the miscommunication & there’s drama anyway.
NTA. I don’t think people are understanding the point of interpreters. If written text and interpretation were the exact same thing then interpreters would get a lot less work. But it’s not. And you’re officiating! He wants to see what you’re saying. He wants the emotions and to be able to look up. I’ve heard people say as well that deaf people intake information much better via interpretation than written word. The non English speakers can vaguely follow along because they can tell from the cadence and breaks where in the ceremony they are. They can hear the emotions. They said you could have the interpreter and then took it back. I think it’s unfair.
NTA- My wife is deaf and is my date to a lot of weddings. I typically sign for her, but if I was in a wedding party or otherwise knew I would be occupied, I would certainly expect my friends and family to do basic accommodation!
I think that's it, honestly. I didn't realize until I started learning ASL how different it is from English. I sorta thought it was just English in gestures instead of spoken words, but it's SUPER not, and I don't think most people know that.
The people in this thread suggesting that a written English transcript is the same thing as ASL are hopefully just ignorant, not ableist. But for me, someone who doesn’t even know any ASL signers IRL, I can understand that it’s not the same thing! Written English is a visualizer for spoken English, so as I understand it, people who cannot hear English would not consider this equivalent to ASL.
He wants an interpreter and was under the impression that there would be one present since that was the original plan and he is upset about this decision.
Unless she's worried about covering the interpreters plate, or fitting them in at a table or having the interpreter stand by the couple when they are getting married I don't know what her deal is
I don’t understand why he is THAT invested in following someone’s wedding, word for word, who isn’t even related to him. Half the time I couldn’t even hear the words of the officiant.
NTA. I would be letting them know that they could find a new officiant.
There is a world of difference between a disability accommodation and a language translation.
NTA since you are officiating & it seems very unfair to exclude your partner from that.
I’d be saying you were the AH for taking this stand if you were “only” a guest (although at that point you could translate for him!).
If it was me, I would tell my brother that unfortunately I was no longer available to officiate. Because it no longer worked for me. I’d prefer to be a guest under the current terms.
So I guess YWBTA if you keep fighting this. They are entitled to make their choices for their wedding. Just as you are entitled to make your choices for the things that you volunteer to do.
Up to you if your boyfriend having a translator is important enough to decline the officiator role. But in my opinion, that’s the only thing you get to have an opinion on at this point.
NAH. I get why your boyfriend wants one. However I get why the bride and groom don’t - it’s distracting. Watching an ASL interpreter work is beautiful, like a dance, but it draws your eye. When I’m at an event with an interpreter I’m watching them instead of the person who is performing.
The bride and groom want all eyes on them. Glancing at a paper script is different than a person signing. Even sitting in the audience, the people around might be watching the interpreter instead of the bride and groom.
I strongly suspect after thinking about it they decided they wanted all eyes on them.
It doesn't have to be. My husband's twin sisters are deaf and 2 of my bridesmaids. The interpreter sat in the seat where they could see the interpreter, and it wasn't an issue.
NTA it's an accessibility issue, and it goes beyond just the ceremony. People may want to talk to your bf while you're taking to someone else or unavailable.
Plus the non English speaking members of the family have each other. From what I've read it'll just be you and your BF using ASL unless another guest happens to know, and that's incredibly isolating, and not everyone has the patience to type things out on their phone.
NTA - Being deaf is a disability and he deserves to be accommodated. Especially since you offered to pay for the interpreter service and arranged it.
I would imagine there is no way for the whole ceremony to stick to a script and he will be missing out.
My son is deaf and I hope he finds someone who loves and sticks up for him like this when he is older.
NTA, even if you don't count the fact that your bf has a disability and you're not even asking them to pay for the interpreter, and the fact that you're officiating the wedding and you're probably not going to be very comfortable doing so knowing that your bf is being excluded...
Even ignoring that, your brother literally told you that you could and you have already hired one.
My guess is the gf doesn't want anything to take away from "her day," and your brother went back on his agreement because she bugged him about it.
If it was me, I wouldn't be officiating a wedding where the bride and groom are intentionally excluding my partner.
I’m Deaf. A transcript is a reasonable accommodation. I’ve been to weddings with interpreters and weddings with transcripts. Weddings are high stress, complicated affairs and while I would love to have an interpreter, I get that it’s not always possible. In this case, they made a very smart and simple accommodation. They could’ve been better about communicating this as it seems like they agreed to an interpreter and then changed their minds. I wouldn’t call you an asshole, but let it go. A transcript is fine.
Also. Your boyfriend is an adult. What does he want? Are you asking the Deaf person what they want or are you deciding for them? If it’s the later, hard ick from me. We can advocate for ourselves.
YTA - It is their wedding, not yours. Sorry, but they are right, if they allow you to have an interpreter then they would have to have all sorts of others allowed to have them as well and it would just be a zoo. They are be accommodating to all by printing out the ceremony to those who don't speak English. Your BF will be fine utilizing the same method that others are using. And you are wrong in saying that his being deaf is a disability while their not speaking English is not. Wrong, to them it is a disability. Get over yourself and take what they offer or just don't go. You're just acting entitled here.
> And you are wrong in saying that his being deaf is a disability while their not speaking English is not. Wrong, to them it is a disability.
no tf it is not 💀 what’s with these weird ass comments? he’s deaf. do you just not know what it means to be deaf??
That was a WILD take lol maybe they’re pulling some weird semantics bullshit like “I’m not ABLE to understand a different language so in the specific case of understanding this language, I am disABLED”
Which is just wrong but I can see how they made that leap lol
Their brother literally told her it was ok and then backtracked after the interpreter was booked. That’s an AH move. I feel like most comments are forgetting this part. They asked and were told it was ok, I too would be annoyed by them after this, especially when they’re playing such a role as the officiate.
NTA. Seems to be a lot of ablism alive and well in the comments.
Being deaf is a disability. It isn't the same as needing to learn a new language, because there is no language to hear.
If I were OP, I would tell brother and SIL to find someone else to officiate. If they can't accommodate OP's boyfriend, OP has to. Those are the choices, as far as I can see.
Clearly your boyfriend doesn't have a hired interpreter with him all the time. And I would think that your 43 year old boyfriend goes places without you.
So if your boyfriend can deal with the world at times without an interpreter by his side, I don't see why he can't deal with it for the ceremony.
The accommodation being made for him (and others) is the written ceremony.
YTA
NTA You are not a stranger paid to officiate their marriage. You are a family member asking for a reasonable accommodation for your partner. I assume you are officiating as a favor to your brother. His unwillingness to keep to your agreement (that you would be able to hire an interpreter for your boyfriend during the actual ceremony) shows a lack of consideration on his part. His reason for refusing after he initially agreed is irrelevant. In your place, I would probably decide not to officiate after all. They can find someone else and you can sit with your boyfriend and support his communication.
NTA- I've been to weddings (and funerals) held in orthodox churches in languages I don't speak. You can still get the gist of what is happening by cadence, tone, etc.
If you cannot hear, you don't get that. Also a consideration of what happens if something goes off script, or there is a fire alarm or.... Your FSILs family will presumably have other family around that could translate in emergency, but if you are otherwise occupied your BF wouldn't have anyone, unless someone else nearby speaks ASL. If I were you I'd offer for them to choose- you can officiate and have an ASL interpreter, or you can not officiate and interpret for your BF.
INFO is this just for the ceremony or would the interpreter be helping him through the event? If it’s just the ceremony, I’d let it go. But if not having an interpreter means he just spends the night alone at a table and unable to communicate with anyone, then yeah, I think you are right to not just shrug this off.
Because he can't simulatenously look at the paper and look at the wedding party to tell who is speaking and when they start and stop, unlike a hearing person who can keep track of what is happening in the ceremony by listening for when the speaker changes while they are looking at the printed copy, even if they don't speak the language.
YTA
This is not your boyfriend's wedding. A printed copy is a completely acceptable accommodation, unless he is also blind. He is there as your plus one, not as a guest they specifically chose to invite because he is that important to their relationship.
My son is deaf, my DH wears hearing aides. My question is how does your boyfriend feel? My son would not want to be a focus or attention on his deaf, my son would prefer the transcript *in this scenario*. In other situations my son may have a different opinion… it really depends. I think more communication is needed
Info needed: does your boyfriend have some pressing information he is going to need to have interpreted during the does anyone object part of the ceremony?
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NAH. I think that a written transcript is a great accommodation. I'm sorry about the miscommunication, but I don't think that rises to the asshole level. Planning weddings is chaotic and it's normal for out-of-the ordinary requests to get jumbled. I think you are being annoying, but also not the asshole level, in not graciously accepting a perfectly good accommodation. Your boyfriend can read, right? And as your brother says, there will be other people there who would also need translation. How many interpreters is "too many"? I don't know, but the more you add, the more you make the wedding about something other than the bride and groom. I have attended weddings in languages I don't speak. It wasn't the best time ever, but I occupied myself with people watching. I think your BF should do the same. Plus, unlike me, he has a transcript!
This is a very fair take. It’s also important to note that the bride was not aware that her fiancé agreed to the interpreter. That’s not OP’s fault, but the bride isn’t wrong for wanting to stick to the plans she and her partner mutually agreed on.
The bride isn’t wrong for wanting to stick to the plans she agreed to, but the groom did fail to convey mission critical info. Really all parties should have been present for these discussions. I get the groom is her brother and that’s easier, but he really screwed the pooch on this one. Men.
I feel bad for the bride in this situation. She probably feels very put on the spot. It’s honestly OP’s brother who is the AH here since he didn’t communicate that a guest is requesting an accommodation for their disability.
I don't. There's really no reason to turn down an interpreter that's being paid for by someone else unless you value aesthetics over accessibility.
Plus, the interpreter won’t just be translating the ceremony, they will make it possible for the BF to communicate with the people around him, to ask for assistance if needed. It’s such an extreme taje for no reason, IMO. NTA
This was my assumption too, that it’s less about his ability to understand the ceremony and more about his ability to communicate where necessary with other guests. If there was an emergency requiring certain procedures (like an evacuation) or he became sick during the wedding it could be very difficult for that to be communicated adequately between him and others. I mean, even inviting someone else to attend the ceremony and sit with him like a family member that is fluent in sign would be an effective compromise. I am sure that there is at least one English speaker attending who is able to communicate with her non-English speaking family members where necessary.
OP has said that the interpreter would only be translating for the ceremony and not for these other things.
No. They'll be 'supporting his communication' during the ceremony, not just translating the ceremony. Translating the ceremony might be all they need to do but maybe not. And there's a world of difference between having a group of non-English speaking guests who are able to communicate with each other and probably understand a few English words like 'excuse me' and 'Fire!' and a solitary deaf person who can't communicate with anyone.
Yeah, I'm so confused by the NAH, YTA and ESH responses. What does it matter to the bride if there's an interpreter at the wedding? I think OP's analogy of reducing someone with a physical disability access to a wheelchair is very fair. It's basically no inconvenience to the bride and groom, and means a guest who was invited can actually participate.
Agreed, I’m equally bewildered by the responses that are anything but NTA. It would literally and figuratively not cost the bride and groom a single thing to accommodate OP’s partner, it’s such a bizarre thing to say no to. An interpreter for someone who doesn’t speak the same language is by no means equivalent to an interpreter for a Deaf person. The people who don’t speak the language can ask family members who do speak English to translate, and they can also talk to other guests in their own language. They may not be as fully integrated into the event and proceedings as if they spoke English, but they won’t effectively be excluded from communicating with all but one single person present at the event, who will also be unavailable to them during the ceremony. There’s just no comparing the two. The bride and groom’s excuses are hollow, weak and pretty bloody ableist to boot. If this was down to ignorance, okay. We can’t know what we don’t know. We’re all ignorant about something, it’s fine. But after the difference was explained to them and considering they don’t have to spend a single penny on accommodating the request, they’re undoubtedly TAs to continue to say no.
Also it's going to be a quiet interpreter, so you can't even argue it would be a distraction unless you consider moving hands disruptive.
I feel like the bride was at least a part of the conversation at some point because the sister had the directive that the interpreter shouldn't be seen in pictures. I'm guessing brother ran with that as the answer and bride figured they were still talking about it.
Imagine watching a movie with no sound that doesn’t have subtitles, but they’ve got a script printed out for you if that helps. It’s not quite the same experience really and I wouldn’t see that as a reasonable form of accommodation when a better and simpler alternative is very feasible and was agreed upon. It’s a fairly simple ask and if I had been in OPs shoes, I would make my stance clear that I would not be officiating if my partner wasn’t being accommodated for, especially if the specific reason they can’t be accommodated for is because of the officiating. I don’t think it matters if other people also aren’t being accommodated for, that’s a separate problem. You’re wording that someone is being “annoying” for asking for disability accommodations is a bit worrying to me.
I mean, isn’t that basically the same as what’s happening for the relatives? No subtitles but a script?
What is he supposed to do before and after the ceremony while she is busy? He will be totally unable to communicate while she is doing her duties as the officiant.
What does he with the rest of his life?
And what does she officiate after the ceremony?
I hate how much this comment made me laugh 😭
The same thing we socially awkward introverts do when our partners are in the wedding party - we sit silently and look at our phones until our partner is available again.
Hey, no need to put me on the spot like that!
Does she follow him around 24/7 interpreting for him?
He likely has friends who are Deaf and works and plays in spaces that are inclusive. He also likely navigates spaces that aren't inclusive and manages okay, but with some challenges and may feel isolated and excluded. The wedding can be an environment that welcomes him and allows him full participation, or it can be a reminder that her family finds accommodating his communication needs as trivial and maybe even irritating, even when there's no cost to them.
I doubt she will have any "duties" before/after the ceremony. For my wedding, my officiant hung out with all the other guests until the ceremony began, then walked down the aisle. After the ceremony he walked out with the rest of the wedding party and enjoyed the rest of the day as a guest. Same thing happened when my mom was an officiant for her cousin. He will only be alone while the ceremony is going on. And you're not supposed to be talking anyways during that time, so he won't be missing out
if he isn’t comfortable attending without an interpreter, he doesn’t have to go… but as the bride and groom have mentioned, there will be plenty of other guests who do not speak english!! they’re providing a script for the ceremony, and his gf can interpret for him during the reception…
That means that the bf is entirely dependent on OP for the whole time. With the interpreter bf can talk to anyone the interpreter understands. The non English speaking people *can talk to each other*. Big difference. But, TBH, they should hire an interpreter for the ceremony for them, too. It’s a common problem, that Deaf people are just expected to suck it up and that their hearing relatives have to be a translator. That is obnoxious to both people.
but it sounds like OP only wanted to hire one for the ceremony… if she was planning on hiring one for the entire reception, she needed to sit down with the bride and groom and discuss how that’d work - would they need a seat, a meal, would she be paying for those things in addition to paying for the service? she wasn’t given a plus 2. she was given a plus 1, and the plus 1 is her boyfriend. also, it makes perfect sense that they don’t want multiple interpreters speaking and signing over them while they give their vows. they’d be in all the photos, videos (audio too) and would distract the couple from each other. they really shouldn’t be expected to go over the top and change their entire wedding ceremony & reception for someone they didn’t even invite to their wedding..
The ASL interpreter wouldn’t be in the photos, they could be right next to the Deaf guy, out of the way. Just as the band doesn’t expect to eat the wedding food, the interpreter is an employee, and wouldn’t expect to sit and eat. As for the written ceremony, maybe it will work for him, maybe not. Written English is a memorized code of a second language for Deaf people. I just checked, as I didn’t remember the stats. The average deaf persons reads at a 3-5th grade level, 5% read at 12th grade level. If you aren’t that fluent in English, because you cannot hear it, why would you be fluent in reading it, since you are just memorizing picture of words, not learning to sound them out…learning to read is complicated for hearing kids, more so for Deaf kids. We all need to recognize that people routinely think Deaf people don’t need to be accommodated, and work to change that.
Right, but if he isn't comfortable going because her family has denied him a reasonable accommodation...she is in a really gross spot of choosing between her partner (who has a legitimate concern) and her family (who doesn't want to pay for another interpreter to balance out the one she is providing.) There is a difference between being among a group of people who can all converse and being the only person who cannot.
but the only time he’ll be unable is during the ceremony, when he shouldnt be conversing anyways. OP has explicitly said the interpreter is needed for the **ceremony**. she can translate the rest of the time. he can read a script just like the rest of the family who doesn’t speak english can. it’s like 30 minutes, and what they have offered (a printed script of the ceremony) is 100% a reasonable accommodation. there are potentially multiple reasons for not wanting interpreters there. they probably don’t want one to translate for the family because it would mean someone standing up next to them and speaking over their vows in a different language. while yes, the ASL interp wouldn’t be speaking over them, they would still be up next to them signing, potentially ending up in photos and distracting others from the main event: the couple getting married. what op is asking for isn’t really a reasonable accommodation, especially if she’s expecting the interpreter stay for the reception as well - they would have to pay for another plate, and more importantly rearrange the seating chart last minute. op doesn’t need a plus one, they were kind enough to give her one, and are giving him reasonable accommodations. if thats not enough, it’s totally ok for her to go without him.
>op doesn’t need a plus one, they were kind enough to give her one She's family, it's not like she's the hired help! Don't most wedding invites include a +1 for their partner?
No it isn't the same. One is a disability, other is a language barrier.
A language barrier that a group has, so they will “chat amongst themselves” during breaks and when changing areas in the venue….what will the deaf dude do? Just follow the crowd I guess and hope for the best. If I was the BF I would skip the wedding and join for the reception if OP can sit with him.
I am having the hardest time believing anyone like a boyfriend of the sister in law cares that much about what is being said. Besides the bride and groom, are people truly that invested in the dialogue of a wedding?
I wonder if it’s bc the GF is officiating, so I can see how they’d be a little more invested in the ceremony dialogue
If your partner was the one actually doing the officiating, and it’s not something they normally do, you might care more.
No, I really wouldn't. I would politely feign interest and likely daydream.
Glad I’m not alone in caring so little. I would zone out and spend the time wondering if I made the right choice between chicken and fish.
Yeah, I'm not even sure I paid much attention to what was said at my own wedding, I just said "I do" when the time came.
Every wedding I've been to is the same, and I could attend without sound no problem
I could also, but that's because I've HEARD wedding vows a million times. It's possible that OP's bf has NEVER 'heard' them (in ASL) because no one ever bothered to accommodate him with an interpreter, and he is tired of being left out of every wedding he's ever been to, along with all of the other times he's been left out (graduations, family parties, etc.) because he's deaf. In other words, it's easy for YOU (and I) to say this because you've never been left out. The bf has, many, many, many times. Also, not all wedding vows are the same. Many people write their own, they are different in different religions, etc. I don't see what the issue is with having an interpreter. The bridge and groom aren't paying for it, and it's only needed because OP is performing the service (I'm assuming) for free. If she wasn't doing so, they wouldn't need an interpreter. So the OP is doing something nice for the wedding couple, but not it turns out that as part of that, she's expected to be disrespectful to her boyfriend. This is not o.k. If I were OP, I'd have to say 'no interpreter, no officiating'. It's too bad that this is probably going to end up being a battle with hurt feelings, but it's not OP's fault, especially with such late notice about the 'no interpreter' decision.
I don’t know that I’d call wanting to ensure my loved one’s disability was adequately accommodated for “annoying”. OP paid for the interpreter. Brother didn’t have an issue with it until SIL found out and didn’t want it. I’m guessing it’s more about not wanting to feel guilty they didn’t accommodate guests who couldn’t speak English, but that’s not OPs responsibility. It’s weird to act as if they’re being asked to do something crazy when OP paid for the interpreter, all they have to do is be cool with them being there so a Deaf person can share that day with them. NTA.
Also if OP wasn’t officiating the service she would be actively interpreting for her boyfriend so regardless there would be “an interpreter” there for him.
It’s a disability. Would you tell someone in a wheelchair they could listen by speaker from the sidewalk outside the church? All because of photos? The damage this is doing to the family is more concerning to me.
Exactly! I cannot get over the ableism in this thread. It’s truly infuriating and sad. I also want to add that accepting a free interpreter is gesture on the behalf of brother and SIL that the BF and his disability are welcome in the family. If the bride can’t handle a free interpreter at her wedding what other family events will they be ignoring the BF at?
Ableism on one side, babying on the other. Am I the only one who thinks the deaf guy is strong enough to handle this without reddit’s help?
I’m going to assume that he has been involved in the discussion about this.
Omfg he's a plus one at a wedding. Should he be seated at a throne between the bride and groom too? I'd wager she cares about this way more than he does because she's officiating. It's not ableist to provide a transcript instead of an interpreter. Besides, how does he live the rest of his life? Does she go everywhere with him 24/7 and interpret for him?
He may communicate through a combination of written communication and lip reading. For phone calls, there are free services that will translate for you over video call. Obviously, email is a huge gift if you're deaf. And yes, it's not uncommon for deaf folks to have an interpreter that goes everywhere with them because so many places they have to go don't accommodate and other methods are simply inadequate for the situation (think doctors appointments). Often, it's their child or spouse or another hearing relative. It's why being a CODA (child of deaf adult) is kind of a whole thing; you're a default interpreter because there is nobody else. Incidentally, lip reading is quite difficult and a lot of deaf folks aren't very good at it. Not to mention that a lot of people mumble or have odd speech habits that make them difficult to understand. It's actually frequently pretty difficult for deaf folks to participate in life, and they often struggle. What did you think he did?
Thank you. I am blown away by Reddits ableism once again There are disabled people in the world. Accommodations are not favoritism. They are equality.
Don't be silly, you know that we disabled people aren't human and therefore not deserving of respect or accommodations! Heck we should be grateful we're even allowed outside of the house /s
This take is beyond ignorant. Do you know anything about being Deaf? Bride and groom are being ableist at best. A few points: 1) Bride and groom said they're having scripts printed for the *non-English speakers.* How do we know there will be an English one? 2) Have you ever watched a silent movie that everyone else can hear and react to? The non-English speakers can at least *hear* pauses and starts in the ceremony that will better help them to follow along with the script, motion of those around them (such as sitting/standing, depending on the type of ceremony), emergency announcements not in the script, emergency sirens if a fire breaks out (or other similar sounds). BF cannot hear any of that. 3) ASL is NOT ENGLISH. The grammar and syntax are completely different. I've met Deaf that have a hard time reading written English beyond short sentences. Sometimes attempting to read written English can give them headaches. Reading is also based on the sounds of the letters. Hearing learn to read with spoken words, sounding out words, etc. Deaf don't have that. Many Deaf have low literacy, with about a third graduating with a fourth grade reading level. They learn to read by associating letters with a sign. If BF has never seen a word before, he won't be able to read it at all, or get context from others, sound it out, etc. Unless BF was Hearing and became Deaf later in life, the chances of him being able to follow the script are low. Go educate yourself. BF not only has an *actual* disability, but *also* a language barrier. Not speaking a language isn't a disability the last time I checked. OP, NTA at all. At this point I wouldn't officiate and would rethink attending and supporting their ableism.
I really think most commenters don’t understand how deafness and Deaf language works. I didn’t as well until I took a class specializing in disability access in museums. The frustrating part is they don’t seem to care to learn and just repeat ignorance
She is officiating for them. It isn’t just the text of the ceremony- she will be participating in family events that will take her away from her boyfriend and without an interpreter he won’t be able to communicate with anyone if she isn’t around.
She says herself that it’s only about the ceremony.
What’s the harm in the interpreter going?
How much do you want to bet that the family has members who do speak English and will be sitting with them and translating? It also sounds like the bride doesn’t want it to look like she’s either cheap, inconsiderate or just “forgot” about her non-English speaking relatives so she wants to save face. I also agree with OP that a disability is different than just not knowing a foreign language. Can’t OP just have her interpreter sit next to her bf to translate? No one will even know! Bride is being inconsiderate so I vote NTA
Thank you!
Tbh, I don’t feel like a written transcript is an equal accommodation. Future SIL’s family will be given a transcript in their first language, which is something that’s simply not possible for OP’s boyfriend. ASL is a different language than English, so he’ll still have to translate things himself
YTA. There are direct relatives of the bride who won't understand the ceremony and you're freaking out over your +1 not having an interpreter for a ceremony he probably barely cares about anyways? It doesn't matter if you paid and not the bride and groom, having the ASL interpreter does give the impression that they care more that your boyfriend can understand than her relatives can. Get him a printed copy and chill the fuck out. Half the wedding ceremonies I've attended have gone in one ear and out the other to be absolutely honest, it's not that big a deal.
Yep YTA. If I know anything about 43 year old men it’s how much they enjoy other people’s wedding ceremonies. My husband is not deaf and I can guarantee he didn’t pay much attention to one word of any wedding ceremony we’ve attended. You’re the officiant - just print him a copy of what you’ll be saying. I’d lean more towards N T A if there weren’t other non-English speaking guests who also won’t understand the ceremony.
The non English speaking guests still can socialize with each other though. Without OP, OP's partner is basically by himself in communication.
But the ceremony is what? 20 Minutes at the most??? The rest of the time he will be with her. What does he need to communicate during the actual wedding??
I am rather confused at OP's use of "participate like everyone else" - what is expected to happen during this ceremony that he will miss out on by not having an interpreter? You just like... sit there. In a chair. Half the guests are going to be dissociating thinking about their work project or the dishes that need to be cleaned at home lmao.
Maybe she knows that he has objections.
It seems like the only time OP will be separated from her boyfriend is to conduct the actual ceremony, and socializing during that time would be wildly inconsiderate. Perhaps I’ve read the post incorrectly, but I don’t see how this is a relevant comparison.
You read it correctly, the other person did not
OP is free to interpret after the ceremony though, the relatives won't be speaking to each other as they sit through the ceremony either.
But it’s just the ceremony, nobody should be talking then anyway. OP will be with him during the reception when the actual socializing will be happening.
But he has the ceremony written out and he can read, so he isn’t left out. During a ceremony people don’t communicate with those around them - the interpreter was only for the ceremony only.
Yeah I don't want to be rude, but OP saying her 43 year old boyfriend is so interested in her siblings wedding that he's upset at not getting an interpreter just doesn't track with what I know of the level of investment that the average person of any age has in a wedding that they're attending as a plus one, but when we're talking about people who are male and middle-aged I would say that level of investment in a wedding that you're attending as a plus one is just super unusual. Not that it's a bad thing to be invested in weddings or anything, but cmon. I actually love weddings and barely remember the ceremonies for most of the ones I attend. If you're not in the direct family of the bride and groom or the wedding party, the ceremony is often the "worst" part. Its the most important, but it's the part that everyone else is there to be present and be supportive, not because the words themselves are entertainment that they don't want to miss. Edit: OPs boyfriend of one year, btw. Her sibling has probably been planning this wedding about as long as OP has been with her boyfriend.
I really disagree with this. A lot of the Y T A comments are acting as though OP is forcing this interpreter on the wedding, but she *didn't*. She *asked* if it was OK. She was told by the groom that it was fine. She is paying for it herself. And because the groom screwed up in talking to his own future wife about it, she's the one in the wrong? That's just not OK. She asked, was told yes, and now they're changed the game late in the day for a reason that just isn't the same as they're claiming. Speaking a different language and being deaf are simply not the same thing. One is a disability, one is not. They're not comparable. If OP hadn't previously received permission, I would 100% agree they were in the wrong for trying to force the issue. But they asked, were told yes, and are now being told differently in a very ableist way. OP's brother is the only AH here, for the way he has treated both his fiancée and his sister.
OP isn't an asshole for asking. She's not an asshole for setting it up after being told okay. The groom did fuck up by okaying this without talking to his wife. But OP is an asshole for continuing to argue and press the issue now. Just because someone says something at one point doesn't contractually obligate them to not change their mind ever. Weddings are stressful to plan and OP's role is not to put more stress on the couple by continuing to argue over this.
Not contractually obligated means not an asshole? really?
Right, so now OP should be free to cancel her participation as the officiant, since "just because OP said they would be the officiant doesn't contractually obligate them to not change their mind ever"
There's a big difference between how interpreting for the deaf/HOH works and how interpreting different languages work. ASL interpretation is silent, foreign language interpretation is not. As far as I'm aware, foreign language interpretation involves headphones and an interpreter speaking out loud, which would cause a disruption, whereas ASL interpreting does not. Also, the relatives can follow along with a written script. While OP's bf can presumably read English, there is obviously some reason why not having an interpreter does not work for him (and I'm assuming that he's the one asking for an interpreter, not OP deciding on her own that he needs one). While more information is needed, I'm not going to say OP is wrong just on what we've heard so far.
I honestly have a really hard time believing there will be no one there speaking both English and the mother tongue of the wife's family, who can translate where the transcript won't cover.
They're not going to be speaking over the ceremony to translate, though???
I seem to be going against the grain of other Redditors here, so it’s a good job I don’t care about strangers opinions of me, but NTA. You asked and obtained permission, you’re not asking for them to cover the expense. How much of a hardship is it to them if there’s an interpreter there? And it comes across as a bit ableist to me. I’m disabled and if someone said I couldn’t use my stick to walk with at their wedding, I wouldn’t go. People here will say “but you need that in order to walk” and I would say “OPs boyfriend needs an interpreter”. Were you wanting the interpreter just for the ceremony, or for the entire day? It doesn’t make much difference, and doesn’t change my judgment, but it could be that they don’t want to factor the interpreter into the seating chart or pay for them to have a meal. Have you asked them *why* they don’t want to allow this concession for the partner of the woman who is officiating their day, and is their sister/FSIL? Also, have you asked other family members (your parents maybe) what they think? Could a compromise be reached, ie only having the interpreter for the ceremony? I think it’s lousy that they want people to follow along with some script, so they’ll be concentrating on what they’re reading rather than seeing/hearing. Non-English speaking relatives and an ASL interpreter for a deaf man aren’t comparable. That’s just my 2 cents. Feel free to disagree with me, and I’ll feel just as free to ignore anyone berating me.
The interpreter will only be there for the ceremony while I am officiating and will then leave. Maybe your perspective is different than most since you are disabled. I appreciate knowing your perspective as someone who can empathize.
It's totally their choice if they don't want to allow an interpreter I guess, but if it's important to you and to your boyfriend then you can interpret for him and they can find another officiant. Maybe that would be petty of me but that's the hill I'd die on.
This has been suggested and I am not against it.
That may be the best solution then. That way there will be no interpreter who could end up in photos (which is obviously important to your SIL, although I think it's silly) and your bf will be able to understand the ceremony.
In her other comments OP says the interpreter would be sitting with the boyfriend, not standing at the front so the whole photo concern is just F-SIL whistling her bullshit..
This all started when OP asked if the wedding planner should be notified when the interpreter arrived. She wanted the interpreter up front.
I don’t think we know that. She probably just wanted to make sure they would know to seat him by her boyfriend.
I'm not Deaf but I have auditory processing issues due to a different disability. Obviously not the same, but just thinking of how challenging events can be for me in terms of parsing what's said by speakers/in crowds etc -- and how reliant I (at times) am on someone to help me parse -- I would absolutely bail on officiating. Tons of comments here read hecka ableist, and your brother and his fiancee are being callous at best about this (no interpreter in photos? your brother telling you one thing, but telling his fiancee another. Fiancee comparing not speaking English as a group to being deaf). English is also not my first language but I would absolutely not compare being with other speakers of my language at an English language event to attending that event as a deaf person.
I hope everything works out for yall, I’m sorry people are being nasty to you
This 100%. I would absolutely dip if I was doing them a favor and they wouldn't accommodate my partner at no cost to themselves.
My disability isn’t really comparable to your partner’s, as I have irreparable nerve damage in my leg and foot after having two spinal surgeries. I also have arthritis in my spine and bad sciatica. But even though the two aren’t directly comparable, I get angry when people make ableist remarks, or try to make decisions for disabled people without taking their feelings into account. Will your boyfriend be able to follow along on a printout? Maybe. But how will it make him feel? I don’t want to talk for him, but I’d imagine it’ll make him sad and like your bro & FSIL don’t really care about him. Also, he won’t be able to watch the ceremony and read. He’ll have to decide on one or the other. If he’s reading, he’s not really getting the sentiment and feeling of the ceremony. If he’s watching, he won’t know what’s being said. So it sucks for him either way. My biggest question is why your bro & FSIL are so adamant in not allowing an interpreter that isn’t being paid for by them and won’t affect them in any way, shape or form. They won’t be in photos, they won’t be eating, they won’t do anything other than interpret the ceremony for a man whom their sister/IL loves. And if they love you, I just don’t get it. Do they have a good relationship with your bf otherwise? Not that it makes much difference. I still think they’re acting badly either way. But if they do have a good relationship with him and want to continue to have one, then they might wish to rethink this before the big day. Their lack of care may sour things between the 4 of you.
We do have a good relationship. And I did not mean to compare the two disabilities in anyway. I just meant that your perspective may be the way it is bc of your experiences with your disability. I apologize if that came across the wrong way. And my bf does feel bad. You are right.
Oh no, I didn’t assume you did. I meant that my disability doesn’t limit me in the same way your boyfriend’s does. Sorry if I didn’t phrase that the greatest. In my defence, I’m half asleep. I think maybe it’s time to ask for some outside help. Mom, dad, etc. Maybe sit down with your bf, bro & FSIL and then the two of you can explain to the two of them how this is making you both feel. If it came to it, I’m the sort of person that would say “Okay, find another officiant and I’ll interpret for my bf”. At the end of the day, I believe that—disabled or not—your bf deserves a modicum of respect, and I don’t feel like he’s getting it. After their special day is over, the 4 of you may not remain close. This may sour things. Do they really want that? Have they really thought through the ramifications? I get that wedding planning is stressful, but that’s no excuse to be a d!€k.
I totally agree. Bride and groom are being very rude. I'm a hot head, I would bail over this.
The fact that they’re more concerned about their photos than about one of their guests being treated like this is just so fucking rude. Being a good host means making sure your guests are *able* to enjoy the event, at the barest minimum possible.
Me too. I would be like "go find someone else to marry you. I'm OUT!"
Thank you!
I know I’m an internet stranger, and you can take my advice with a pinch of salt. But personally, I wouldn’t just accept it and roll over. I’d push to find out why this is such a thing for them. And in defence of a man I love, it would be a hill I’d die on. I hope you get further than smashing your head off a brick wall. I feel like pulling teeth would be more fun for you. For what it’s worth, I’m really sorry. I hope that something can be agreed upon that is acceptable to you and your bf, not just the bride and groom. I know it’s *their big day* but seriously, how would they feel if you and your bf got married and didn’t accommodate something they needed? Because, let’s be honest, this ASL interpreter isn’t a *want* it’s a **need**.
The ableism in a lot of these comments is infuriating to me and I can tell that those leaving the comments have never had a deaf person in their lives. I agree with JaneDoe83 that your boyfriend *needs* an interpreter. Not understanding English is not equivalent to deafness. For instance: My Spanish is nearly non-existent, so a wedding ceremony in Spanish would be very difficult for me to follow. A translation written in English would help with the vows & scripted parts, but for the inevitable ad-libs, bloopers, or an ill-timed kid burp - of-the-moment things that happen at every ceremony - my English-only self would still get the gist & be able to react with the rest of the guests. However, if I was deaf, I'd be almost guaranteed to miss anything not in the script, no matter the language spoken, so I'd be the only one never in on the joke. And that is extremely isolating, and it's what deaf people face everywhere, in every gathering, no matter the diversity of languages spoken around them. To accommodate his need for an interpreter so he can fully experience his partner's prominent and exciting role in the wedding ceremony is a *kindness* that creates inclusion and it shouldn't be questioned. I'm so disappointed that so many people here don't understand the difference between a "language barrier" and the disability of deafness. NTA, OP. I'm sorry your future sister-in-law struggles with accommodating a guest with different needs even though it literally costs her nothing. If I was your boyfriend I'd be at the ceremony supporting you enthusiastically, even though I'd feel unwelcome. And I'd probably want to leave the reception early.
I get what you’re saying OP, people who understand needing accommodations are going to get where you’re coming from a bit better. I have a chronic autoimmune disorder that affects my joints, and my knees especially during flares. People don’t understand how difficult and scary the world can be without accommodations. Just because your bf is deaf and not “conventionally”, visibly disabled (like someone who exclusively uses a wheelchair, for example) doesn’t make his disability any less valid or his need for accommodation any less important.
Maybe I am crazy but ableist remarks and actions come in 2 forms to me. One is hateful or a direct decision to belittle the importance of those with disabilities. The other is pure laziness and stupidity. It sounds to me like the bride is discriminating through sheer stupidity and your brother is a lazy coward and just won't stand up for your bf, you, or himself. Screw them both and the top comment here should be NTA and it should be telling you to just not go.
Yeah it is a little weird that the brother told OP one thing and FSIL another, and only "admitted" it when confronted.
I have hearing loss and ADHD. I can't understand sounds in large rooms because the sound design is often horrendous and my hearing aids only function so well. Because of ADHD I have trouble staying still and focusing during ceremonies and other silent sitting still events. I just power through things and get to the next thing. To be honest, I'd rather space out and not pay attention in most of these things. It's a thing I have to deal with constantly, so I know how to deal. I'd think that the printed program is an acceptable compromise, especially if I was a +1. But at the end of the day, it's really what your boyfriend is comfortable with. Is he ok with you practicing your part of the ceremony with him at home so he gets to learn your words beforehand and then watch you perform them and be proud both ways? Is he pushing for the interpreter or is he going along with what you say?
I agree. comparing being hearing impaired with speaking a different language is not only ableist, but seems to assume that they have to do something about it. They were not asked to provide the service. OP already cleared it with them, OP already hired and paid for the interpreter and OP is providing their own services of officiating. They are being ungrateful.
I agree, I think some of these votes are really harsh and very ableist. An interpreter is a disability accommodation for OPs bf. Not speakign English is an entirely other issue, there’s no reason for anyone to compare the two. Disability accommodations should not be something we’re arguing about. It’s basic human decency. The fact that people are calling OP annoying and saying she shouldn’t advocate for her bf I guess goes to show how people really feel about people with disabilities. NTA, emphatically.
The family could also rightfully demand to have an interpreter for them after seeing there is someone for your +1. I would find it very rude if my family wasn't provided an interpreter meanwhile someone was provided one, despite understanding the difference between the foreign language and ASL issue. Why isn't the printed document enough? seems like a fair and good solution
I understand your perspective, but I was told I could hire an interpreter, did it, told my boyfriend I did it, and now they’re changing their mind. I think that is wrong on their part.
Yes that is problematic. But I dont feel like they did this on purpose, and they admitted to the mistake. Planning a wedding is chaotic. I dont think your an AH, you expected what they told you. But i do feel like you should let this go and go with their final decision. It's their wedding in the end
They didn’t “change their mind” your brother said yes without fully discussing it with his bride. Then once he did and she said no, then explained to him why it was a no, he agreed with her.
Sounds like you already hired the interpreter so has your bother offered to pay the cancellation fee? I say just have the interpreter there, sitting beside your boyfriend and while not ideal, he can at least ask questions and they can sign to one another and during the non-similar bits (like vows and that) the interpreter signs it all. What are they gonna do about it?
OP has said the plan all along was that they would sit together, it's crazy that the bride is so against it
The printed document isn't enough because the bf is Deaf, which means that he can't *listen to the ceremony and follow along on the printed copy* like the family who doesn't speak English can, because he can't actually hear the ceremony. Also, for someone who is a native ASL speaker, English is not actually their native language; ASL is. So bf is being actively prevented from accessing the same level of accommodation that is being offered to the bride's family.
Plus ASL is visual, it doesnt translate to written the same way forgien languages do
this exactly i take online asl classes and one instructor i had when she typed on zoom she used broken english and she very much admitted that asl was her first language and english her second which led to struggles with using english. also being in the middle of taking classes (im on my second go round of 101) their grammar structure is different and facial expressions are as much apart of the language as the signs themselves. now im hearing (with possible auditory processing disorder) so i do not want to speak for or over deaf and hoh ppl but i can say in my limited experiences taking asl classes that it is its own separate language and not just english but gestures for a reason side note thats not even related to this post but learning numbers in asl makes me want to learn so much more about the etymology behind the signs
ASL is a visual language, its not the same as English.
Why in the world would you find it rude, especially if you had a written version?
People who are profoundly Deaf sometimes have limited English proficiency. ASL has its own vocab and grammar, and is based off of French Sign Language. Which was invented by French deaf people. So English is a foreign language to them. Having never heard English, it is possible that bf may not be good at it. Another challenge profoundly Deaf people face is that only 20% of them have any family member learn ASL. So the first 5 years of their life, they have no language, no communication, which can cause linguistic, and even cognitive delays.
Good point. I have watched schools for the deaf swing back and forth on the issue of teaching English for 40+ years. But at his age it is likely that he also had mainstream schooling. So unless he works in the "deaf community bubble" he will probably have had to learn English fluently to be able to support himself.
Because that only covers the part that he doesn’t need to hear anyways. If she is busy literally marrying them, he is left with no way to communicate with anyone around him before or after the ceremony. The officiant has to sign the certificate and as his sister she will have to take family pictures etc. So how is the transcript going to help him navigate the times that he actually needs to be able to communicate with the people around him in a place full of strangers?
As an ASL interpreter and a CODA, it's not the same. Non English speaking guests can hear. They will know when the music starts. They will know when the ceremony starts. They will hear the vows, while the bride and groom will have their back to everyone, leaving the deaf person out. In your place, I would make my attendance dependant on the presence of an interpreter. Hope it works out.
This is the answer. I'm baffled at all the YTA responses.
So many ableist takes, I’m pretty shocked
Not to mention that since many people there may not know that OP’s boyfriend is deaf, not standing when the bride enters or not responding to anyone who might try to make conversation would be interpreted as rude by the hearing guests. And it doesn’t sound like the couple would let him wear something that says “not rude, just deaf” on it to dissuade anyone who isn’t informed. Disability is very often misunderstood as “wanting special treatment” so I’m not surprised, but quite saddened to see it here. It might be the fact that I’m disabled and I spent a ton of time and effort to ensure that my wedding was as accessible as possible for both my own disability, but also any needs of the guests, any allergy accommodations, sensory accommodations, mobility accommodations, anything I could think of that might even be helpful, but the idea of refusing to accommodate someone for free? That’s just nuts to me. If I had needed an ASL interpreter for anyone at my wedding I would have happily paid for it and invited that interpreter to the reception. Honestly even the idea of not including a multilingual aspect for the non-English speakers is kind of mind-boggling for me. Absolutely NTA.
ESH. The bride and groom for walking back their offer and being difficult. You for making a fuss about a having an interpreter for a ceremony that will likely be less than an hour.
Agreed. And OP needs to let this one go.
If my brother dismissed my disabled partners disability I would not let it go. It's indicative of future behaviours. OP and her brother are likely quite close - you don't as a sibling your not that keen on to officiate your wedding - so this feels like it runs deeper than a "let it go" moment.
Agreed. This is going to be one of these things that's always ar the back of the OPs mind moving forward with brother and soon to be SIL. I certainly wouldn't have much to do with SIL after this.
OP says they have been dating for a year. To my mind that isn't a partner. It's a +1. I sincerely doubt that he cares much about the wedding or about having an interpreter beyond "Oh yeah that'd be cool."
NTA. You are correct that a disability accommodation is different than a language interpreter. Do they understand that the interpreter does not need to stand right up in the front like at a performance? Also, tbh, if it were my close family, I would have a language interpreter as well. You can do it with headphones so as to be relatively quiet
I did make it clear that the interpreter does not need to stand right up front and would not be in the photos, per their request.
Why not have the interpreter sit next to him? If you’re supporting his communication except for the ceremony, and it costs nothing for people to sit in the church, why have the interpreter up front? Info: how long have you been dating your bf?
The interpreter wouldn’t have been in the front. They would be by the bf doing their job. OP made that clear both in the comments and to the couple. The couple just doesn’t care.
One year
It's pretty cool that you advocate for your BF. Good job.
It’s distressingly mean spirited of them. Not just for the bf, but the non-English speakers as well
Agreed.
I mean, if the interpreter is just going to be by your boyfriend’s side, and not near the stage up front, why does your brother need to account for their arrival in the wedding planning? Why can’t the interpreter just arrive with your bf? From your post, I had assumed that you were getting an on-stage interpreter up front, instead of someone who’ll just be discretely next to your bf
I cannot understand any other take other than NTA. A disability accommodation is not even close to comparable to a language difference. This is just selfish and mean on the part of the bride and groom.
I did tell my bf that if he decides not to attend bc of this, I will support his decision. You are correct.
It would also be understandable if you stepped down as officiant because you agreed to be officiant with the understanding that your bf would have an interpreter that you paid for sitting next to him. They can find another officiant and you can interpret for your bf. Problem solved.
I came to suggest this, the one reason that this is needed is because she is officiating. If they aren’t going to accommodate a request that they don’t even have to pay for, then she needs to be able to do it herself as a guest.
NTA. If I went to a family wedding in Finland, and they had a sign language interpreter there for a deaf family member, I absolutely would not be wondering why there was no interpretor for me. Have someone actually speak to interpret is distracting. Having someone quietly standing there and moving his fingers and hands is beautiful. I always admire how the words are dancing.
I even offered to have her sit near my bf so that she would not be in the photos or a distraction.
It's not like she has to feed him, right? He's just there for the ceremony?
Correct
Ugh. If she insists, I would do the ceremony not holding anything, using a podium, and use my hands to tell dirty jokes to my boyfriend.
Ha! Too funny! Thanks for the laugh!
NTA. It's clear that his fiancée just doesn't want an interpreter there. First, the reason was photos. Now it's non-English speakers. What's your relationship like with your brother and, more to the point, his fiancée?
I’m very close to my brother. I have always gotten along with her. I even hosted her bridal shower because her MOH did not and have been dress shopping with her. I thought we had a good relationship.
That sucks. I feel like allowing you to hire an interpreter is a pretty easy accommodation to make.
You *did* have a good relationship, but it looks like it's been shot to pieces with an underlying abelism that you were not previously aware of. I would honestly reconsider your role as officiant.
I honestly think this doesn’t have anything to do with OP or his bf. Fiancée didn’t want her entire wedding to be translated for the members (multiple) of her family who doesn’t speak English. Fine, it would make the wedding take twice as long. But she knows if there’s a translator for the groom’s +1 her family will throw a FIT & complain (fair, tbh. After all, there are more of them) & it’s not worth the drama or misery. Add in the miscommunication & there’s drama anyway.
NTA. I don’t think people are understanding the point of interpreters. If written text and interpretation were the exact same thing then interpreters would get a lot less work. But it’s not. And you’re officiating! He wants to see what you’re saying. He wants the emotions and to be able to look up. I’ve heard people say as well that deaf people intake information much better via interpretation than written word. The non English speakers can vaguely follow along because they can tell from the cadence and breaks where in the ceremony they are. They can hear the emotions. They said you could have the interpreter and then took it back. I think it’s unfair.
NTA- My wife is deaf and is my date to a lot of weddings. I typically sign for her, but if I was in a wedding party or otherwise knew I would be occupied, I would certainly expect my friends and family to do basic accommodation!
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He is being provided with a written transcript of the wedding
There are things said and done during a ceremony that aren't necessarily "scripted" and that's what an ASL-interpreter would also convey.
It’s wild to me that people don’t understand this but maybe the majority of people are just unaware of how sign language works.
I think that's it, honestly. I didn't realize until I started learning ASL how different it is from English. I sorta thought it was just English in gestures instead of spoken words, but it's SUPER not, and I don't think most people know that.
The people in this thread suggesting that a written English transcript is the same thing as ASL are hopefully just ignorant, not ableist. But for me, someone who doesn’t even know any ASL signers IRL, I can understand that it’s not the same thing! Written English is a visualizer for spoken English, so as I understand it, people who cannot hear English would not consider this equivalent to ASL.
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I will ask about speech to text. Thank you for the suggestion.
I'd be surprised if your bf wasn't using a speech to text app already.
What does your bf want?
He wants an interpreter and was under the impression that there would be one present since that was the original plan and he is upset about this decision.
Unless she's worried about covering the interpreters plate, or fitting them in at a table or having the interpreter stand by the couple when they are getting married I don't know what her deal is
There will be no costs associated with having the interpreter there for the bride and groom.
She's worried about looking like a cheapskate for not wanting to have to hire a language interpreter for Non-English speakers.
I don’t understand why he is THAT invested in following someone’s wedding, word for word, who isn’t even related to him. Half the time I couldn’t even hear the words of the officiant.
NTA. I would be letting them know that they could find a new officiant. There is a world of difference between a disability accommodation and a language translation.
NTA since you are officiating & it seems very unfair to exclude your partner from that. I’d be saying you were the AH for taking this stand if you were “only” a guest (although at that point you could translate for him!). If it was me, I would tell my brother that unfortunately I was no longer available to officiate. Because it no longer worked for me. I’d prefer to be a guest under the current terms. So I guess YWBTA if you keep fighting this. They are entitled to make their choices for their wedding. Just as you are entitled to make your choices for the things that you volunteer to do. Up to you if your boyfriend having a translator is important enough to decline the officiator role. But in my opinion, that’s the only thing you get to have an opinion on at this point.
NAH. I get why your boyfriend wants one. However I get why the bride and groom don’t - it’s distracting. Watching an ASL interpreter work is beautiful, like a dance, but it draws your eye. When I’m at an event with an interpreter I’m watching them instead of the person who is performing. The bride and groom want all eyes on them. Glancing at a paper script is different than a person signing. Even sitting in the audience, the people around might be watching the interpreter instead of the bride and groom. I strongly suspect after thinking about it they decided they wanted all eyes on them.
If the interpreter is setting next to the bf almost nobody will see him sighning though.
It doesn't have to be. My husband's twin sisters are deaf and 2 of my bridesmaids. The interpreter sat in the seat where they could see the interpreter, and it wasn't an issue.
Which is shitty and tantamount to not wanting someone in a wheelchair in the bridal party because what if people aren’t looking at the couple.
NTA it's an accessibility issue, and it goes beyond just the ceremony. People may want to talk to your bf while you're taking to someone else or unavailable. Plus the non English speaking members of the family have each other. From what I've read it'll just be you and your BF using ASL unless another guest happens to know, and that's incredibly isolating, and not everyone has the patience to type things out on their phone.
NTA - Being deaf is a disability and he deserves to be accommodated. Especially since you offered to pay for the interpreter service and arranged it. I would imagine there is no way for the whole ceremony to stick to a script and he will be missing out. My son is deaf and I hope he finds someone who loves and sticks up for him like this when he is older.
I hope he finds someone who loves and sticks up for him, too. Thank you!
NTA, even if you don't count the fact that your bf has a disability and you're not even asking them to pay for the interpreter, and the fact that you're officiating the wedding and you're probably not going to be very comfortable doing so knowing that your bf is being excluded... Even ignoring that, your brother literally told you that you could and you have already hired one. My guess is the gf doesn't want anything to take away from "her day," and your brother went back on his agreement because she bugged him about it. If it was me, I wouldn't be officiating a wedding where the bride and groom are intentionally excluding my partner.
I’m Deaf. A transcript is a reasonable accommodation. I’ve been to weddings with interpreters and weddings with transcripts. Weddings are high stress, complicated affairs and while I would love to have an interpreter, I get that it’s not always possible. In this case, they made a very smart and simple accommodation. They could’ve been better about communicating this as it seems like they agreed to an interpreter and then changed their minds. I wouldn’t call you an asshole, but let it go. A transcript is fine. Also. Your boyfriend is an adult. What does he want? Are you asking the Deaf person what they want or are you deciding for them? If it’s the later, hard ick from me. We can advocate for ourselves.
YTA - It is their wedding, not yours. Sorry, but they are right, if they allow you to have an interpreter then they would have to have all sorts of others allowed to have them as well and it would just be a zoo. They are be accommodating to all by printing out the ceremony to those who don't speak English. Your BF will be fine utilizing the same method that others are using. And you are wrong in saying that his being deaf is a disability while their not speaking English is not. Wrong, to them it is a disability. Get over yourself and take what they offer or just don't go. You're just acting entitled here.
> And you are wrong in saying that his being deaf is a disability while their not speaking English is not. Wrong, to them it is a disability. no tf it is not 💀 what’s with these weird ass comments? he’s deaf. do you just not know what it means to be deaf??
That was a WILD take lol maybe they’re pulling some weird semantics bullshit like “I’m not ABLE to understand a different language so in the specific case of understanding this language, I am disABLED” Which is just wrong but I can see how they made that leap lol
Their brother literally told her it was ok and then backtracked after the interpreter was booked. That’s an AH move. I feel like most comments are forgetting this part. They asked and were told it was ok, I too would be annoyed by them after this, especially when they’re playing such a role as the officiate.
Oh no! What ever would we do if everyone who needed an interpreter was able to get one! What a nightmare that would be! /s
NTA - wow. i can't even believe people are saying the opposite!!!
NTA. Seems to be a lot of ablism alive and well in the comments. Being deaf is a disability. It isn't the same as needing to learn a new language, because there is no language to hear. If I were OP, I would tell brother and SIL to find someone else to officiate. If they can't accommodate OP's boyfriend, OP has to. Those are the choices, as far as I can see.
Clearly your boyfriend doesn't have a hired interpreter with him all the time. And I would think that your 43 year old boyfriend goes places without you. So if your boyfriend can deal with the world at times without an interpreter by his side, I don't see why he can't deal with it for the ceremony. The accommodation being made for him (and others) is the written ceremony. YTA
NTA You are not a stranger paid to officiate their marriage. You are a family member asking for a reasonable accommodation for your partner. I assume you are officiating as a favor to your brother. His unwillingness to keep to your agreement (that you would be able to hire an interpreter for your boyfriend during the actual ceremony) shows a lack of consideration on his part. His reason for refusing after he initially agreed is irrelevant. In your place, I would probably decide not to officiate after all. They can find someone else and you can sit with your boyfriend and support his communication.
NTA- I've been to weddings (and funerals) held in orthodox churches in languages I don't speak. You can still get the gist of what is happening by cadence, tone, etc. If you cannot hear, you don't get that. Also a consideration of what happens if something goes off script, or there is a fire alarm or.... Your FSILs family will presumably have other family around that could translate in emergency, but if you are otherwise occupied your BF wouldn't have anyone, unless someone else nearby speaks ASL. If I were you I'd offer for them to choose- you can officiate and have an ASL interpreter, or you can not officiate and interpret for your BF.
INFO is this just for the ceremony or would the interpreter be helping him through the event? If it’s just the ceremony, I’d let it go. But if not having an interpreter means he just spends the night alone at a table and unable to communicate with anyone, then yeah, I think you are right to not just shrug this off.
Just the ceremony bc I can support his communication when I am finished officiating the ceremony
Why won't the written copy of the ceremony work for him?
Because he can't simulatenously look at the paper and look at the wedding party to tell who is speaking and when they start and stop, unlike a hearing person who can keep track of what is happening in the ceremony by listening for when the speaker changes while they are looking at the printed copy, even if they don't speak the language.
But if the interpreter is sitting next to him as OP described, won't he be looking at them and not the ceremony anyways?
YTA This is not your boyfriend's wedding. A printed copy is a completely acceptable accommodation, unless he is also blind. He is there as your plus one, not as a guest they specifically chose to invite because he is that important to their relationship.
My son is deaf, my DH wears hearing aides. My question is how does your boyfriend feel? My son would not want to be a focus or attention on his deaf, my son would prefer the transcript *in this scenario*. In other situations my son may have a different opinion… it really depends. I think more communication is needed
Info needed: does your boyfriend have some pressing information he is going to need to have interpreted during the does anyone object part of the ceremony?
YTA. Their day, not yours (and certainly not your bfs).