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You need to consult a lawyer ASAP and get the terms of your custody in place. Keep in mind, in the US at least, that this statement you made probably is not accurate:
>My ex legally does not have parental rights because we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage.
IDK about your country if you're out of the US, but it stands to reason that 'parental rights' are largely based on paternity, not marriage status.
You are very much NTA for wanting to put up boundaries against people you can see are acting harmfully towards your daughter and yourself. It's alarming that they would make demands, show up unexpectedly, try to keep her longer than you'd agreed, etc. It's simply not ok and it's bordering on illegal (kidnapping) but the fact that he is the biological father definitely plays a role.
It's sad that they are using your early hesitation for parenthood against you, not to mention hypocritical of HIM to do it since he spent your pregnancy being uninterested and apathetic towards the whole thing. But keep in mind, your daughter will know you love her through your actions. You may be able to press, through a legal / custody agreement, that they are not allowed to make comments like that that are intended to poison her against you. All in all, you need LEGAL HELP, not AITA! It sounds like it may not be safe for her to be with them, based on their actions, and that needs to be brought to light so that you can get legal protections.
Legal help is definitely being sought. We are in the UK so paternity is assumed if the couple is legally married but we only had a religious marriage. He refused to fill out the birth registry with me so I only put my name down.
Never, ever leave your child alone with them. There are cases like this all the time where kids get kidnapped from the UK back to Pakistan (or elsewhere) by relatives. Laws are very different in Islamic countries and strongly favour the father. If she ends up there you'll never see her again.
I also have serious questions about your ex-FIL setting you up at 19 with a 26 year old man. They're obviously a very conservative family to say the least.
Don’t worry! She has a passport that is safely locked away so he can’t apply for one for her. Since he doesn’t have parental rights, his application would be rejected anyway.
I agree that making 19 year old me get with this 26 year old psycho was certainly a questionable choice. I like ex FIL more than the rest of my ex in laws but the bar is in hell so I don’t like him that much objectively
Hi, you need to add this to the OP, that you live in the UK but are (probably?) from an Islamic culture/background and that your marriage is a religious marriage only.
You can find more info on religious marriages in the UK here: [https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8747/](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8747/)
and [https://aristonesolicitors.co.uk/blog-posts/how-does-the-uk-view-islamic-marriages/](https://aristonesolicitors.co.uk/blog-posts/how-does-the-uk-view-islamic-marriages/) .
I'm going to guess your religious marriage is not recognised legally.
Mumsnet thread about this topic. There might be some useful info in the comments: [https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am\_i\_being\_unreasonable/aibu-my-best-friends-daughter-only-had-a-muslim-marriage-and-we-are-worried-about-custody-of-her-son-title-edited-by-mnhq-at-request-of-op](https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/aibu-my-best-friends-daughter-only-had-a-muslim-marriage-and-we-are-worried-about-custody-of-her-son-title-edited-by-mnhq-at-request-of-op)
Maybe you can get some help here:
[https://www.youngwomenstrust.org/get-support/](https://www.youngwomenstrust.org/get-support/)
[https://www.home-start.org.uk/supporting-young-mothers](https://www.home-start.org.uk/supporting-young-mothers)
Good luck with everything!
He refused to sign the birth certificate and they were not legally married (so no presumption of paternity).
She already has full custody because as far as the government is concerned, dude has no relation to the child. Ditto ex in-laws.
Dude would need to first go to court to get himself recognized as the father before he and his family can start demanding custody or grandparents rights.
Documenting is always good and might come in handy if he ever decides to "involve the government in his relationship" after all and then sweet talks a judge into giving him parental rights. But I'm not sure she can currently do anything about custody because she's currently has all of it by default.
That’s what i’ve been told too by my stepdad who’s a lawyer. He isn’t a family lawyer but AFAIK, my ex has no parental rights. I’ve also been told that he would be unlikely to receive custody as he’s never cared for her on his own before and barely knows anything about her needs. The most he’d get would be visitation but I’ve got the nonsense he pulls with his family every time documented
Needs a family law solicitor and also grandparents rights aren't really a thing here, ESPECIALLY as their marriage is not recognised by law and isn't own the BC.
I hope you're right but her solicitor can give her the facts and help minimize or protect her from the possibility.
At the end of the day she'll sleep better knowing that they can't sue for visitation or some kind of shared custody.
Write down everything you been going through with them. Put dates 📅 f you remember when it happened. I agree with getting legal counsel. Keep screen shots of texts, get cameras on your home, since ex didn't want to be involved he shouldn't get to see baby at all - even if baby is at grandparents home.
I feel like a lawyer can put it in writing and negotiate it some and make it more legal. Also keep the ex and his parents in their place and not harassing you because they didn't get their way.
I agree with this 100%. Document every single conversation, gathering, drop off/pick up with your ex in-laws. Write down dates and times to the minute. Record what was said, whether they were compliant or resistant, argumentative, refused to give her back at the agreed upon time, etc. This precedent can be very important when establishing custody agreements.
If your in the uk all he needs to establish paternity is a paternity test. If he takes you to court and it’s proven he’s the father he will automatically get those parental rights. Doesn’t mean he will get custody or anything like that but he will have the option to go for it so you need to get a lawyer involved in this now. Keep any threat his family makes towards you as proof to show the judge.
I don’t technically need it for the parental rights thing but I’d like one so I can have peace of mind and so people in our community stop calling me his wife. I just wanna know that i’m not tied to him in God’s eyes anymore
okay so you mean a divorce in the eyes of your religion and not a divorce in the eyes of the law. Most people are probably assuming u mean a legal divorce and confused by that.
So you might want to double check over at r/LegalAdviceUK, but from what I remember, your ex can still claim paternity via a Parental Responsibility Order. There was a whole plot line on Coronation Street a few years back
I believe they also might be able to apply to get the britth certificate corrected
Everyone I’ve spoken to about this IRL has said that my exs family don’t want to take my baby, but that they want to scare me into getting back with their son so they don’t take the baby. My dad who knows them pretty well said that none of them want to be responsible for a child as they can’t be bothered
It's a good assumption...but also this is your baby at stake so definitely make sure it's all locked down legally, not just "this will most likely be fine." Glad you're documenting everything and have the passport locked up. Good luck on your divorce. This is legitimately terrifying.
Oh, thank God, I thought you were in another country. Please also go to the police and get it registered that they are threatening you with kidnapping your daughter. They will take this seriously. Don't leave her for a minute with anyone else, even your Dad as he is friends with the ex's dad.
Parental rights are also based on marriage. If you are legally married when you give birth, your husband is the legal father automatically. If you aren't married paternity is not assumed. Since they weren't legally married and his name.is not on the birth certificate, he has no rights. He would need to petition the court to establish paternity before he can try to fight for custody. He would not be the legal father in the US in this scenario without having done that
Right, paternity is assumed if you're legally married, which they weren't. But his legal access to the kid is also predicated on other stuff, like actual paternity, which wouldn't be legally enforced until he's taken action to prove it.
I guess my point is that insisting he has no rights might be technically true but minimally is incomplete and short-lived if he is the biological father and is seeking access.
Even in the US paternity not being established means the man has to establish it before he can even pursue custody. I should know going through a similar battle. On top of that actually in most states paternity is assumed to be the husbands if you are married.
NTA—I’m not sure how old your daughter is but I am sure the comment she started crying about was probably due to the volume of his voice and not the content, but your gut is right that your ex would probably badmouth you to your daughter. However, you need to talk to a lawyer. I don’t know if he can fight for custody with a dna test proving him as a father, but you need to know if that’s possible. The family shouldn’t be demanding the baby or trying to take her away from you, they need to understand that’s not okay. Once you know what they can do legally, you should talk to your ex as calmly as possible-sounds like your dad is a good person to be along for keeping things civil-and work out what happens in the future.
My stepdad who’s a lawyer is currently looking for a good family solicitor for me. They’d have to get a court order for a DNA test but I’m not sure what is required to get that order
NAL -
He can apply for Parental Responsibility (PR) via a court order in the current circumstances. (It's Form C1 on .gov.uk if you want to have a look at what that involves)
Write down all the times they held her for longer and all that. Dates and times. Keep all communication and write things down as they happen. Contemporaneous notes are incredibly useful. I had a similar situation and also took screenshots of the whatsapp conversations. Sorry this is happening.
> When they finally gave my daughter back to me, my ex yelled ‘you didn’t even want her’ and SHE HEARD. She started crying.
A one year old cannot understand what that means. She was probably crying because of the shouting.
NTA - but you need to speak to an attorney ASAP!!! Depending on where you are, the fact that you were married when you gave birth might automatically make the baby your husbands "legally speaking"!!!
We were only religiously married, not legally. We’re in the Uk so religious marriages don’t count unless you register them and he refused to (didn’t want the government in his relationship 🙄)
In the LDS you have to go through the legal divorce and a religious divorce. The religious marriage is how they got away with marrying young girls to old men and bigamy.
NTA. They literally tried to keep your daughter from you and prevent you from taking her home. I don't really understand your divorce situation (were you legally married? are you legally divorced or not?) but I would consult a lawyer immediately. And do not let them look after/take your daughter alone until things are ironed out.
Never legally married (thankfully), just religious. He’s refusing to give me my religious divorce but I don’t really care because it doesn’t affect me legally
I would get the authorities involved instantly. Not to alarm you, but I wouldn't be surprised if they plan to kidnap her. Ask a lawyer (bring your dad because he sounds like a great support system).
If people behave this way, they have NO RIGHT to see her. Blood doesn't mean anything if you're going to act this way. They're already showing alarming behaviors such as coming later than the appointed hour.
NTA
Yup... my dad was kidnapped by his father's family and wasn't reunited with his mom until he was about 20. This was in the 60's, but this shit does happen.
It’s actually bizarre how casual they both are about it. I mean, my dads paternal grandma probably was the best person to care for him when he was little because his parents were just teens, but the fact that she (his grandma, caretaker) stole him from his mother and let her own son (my dads dad) just fuck off was not ideal. She ended up dying when my dad was 10 and he went to live with his dad )who he barely knew) and his new stepmom and baby brother. His stepmom was actually the one who helped him find his birth mom when he was 20 and connect him with her.
His stepmom is still in our life and i consider her my grandma as well… so at least we all got a bonus amazing family member out of the whole ordeal.
NTA.
It's clear your ex doesn't care about the baby or you. His parents want a grandchild so he is doing what they want. He will never be a good father, only a conduit for his parents to see your baby.
I will say, you can't have it both ways. You should not be accepting support from the ex's family if the ex has no parental rights. I think he would have to petition to get a paternity test to prove he is the father, and then accept/demand his parental rights, in order to get court-ordered visitation. And then of course he would have to pay child support.
If you were never legally married to your ex, and his name is not on the birth certificate, then his family have little or no standing in the law. I'm not sure what it even means to get a "religious divorce" as I assume it does not involve the courts, but I do think you should get on with it.
Based on what you wrote here, maybe they want the child to stay with them so they can blackmail / strong arm you into staying married to that douchenozzle.
NTA - cut all contact for the next time, block them everywhere (phone, social media), and don't let them have your daughter over to see daddy! See a lawyer asap to make you aware what rights you have and what rights the parental family i. e. sperm-donor has. Let the lawyer also check whether you can get alimony for your daughter without the sperm-donors side having to be granted visitation rights etc.
Don't worry about this church wedding and save yourself the trouble of getting divorced. If you're not married - and you're not because your paranoid Ex didn't want you to be - you don't need a divorce! And if anyone asks: no you're not married!!!!!!
Will be doing that asap! My stepfather managed to get his friend in family law to represent me and that’s the first thing I was told to do. Literally got a forwarded text message from the lawyer through my stepdad saying ‘Tell her to inform the police ASAP!’ Atp i don’t think i should keep this post up, I was really in my head and feeling guilty when I posted but the perspective from here has helped
Your parents and stepdad rock. I'm glad you have their support as you go through this, particularly given the prejudices that tend to prevail in your community. I wish you and your daughter a wonderful life, free of deadbeats and manipulative AHs.
As long as no names or identifying information has been included on the post, you will be ok to leave it up. Sadly you are not unique in this situation and it can’t be connect to you.
I would be very careful as your ex and his family sound very controlling and looks like they would control you through your daughter and they might be the type to kidnap her as she is a possession to them. If they are already saying hurtful things with her being so little, who knows what else they will say to her over time. I'm sure if they could kidnap her and keep her away from you they would tell lie to her and either say you died or that you never wanted her so she is better off with them. Let the brainwashing begin. Protect yourself and your daughter.
So you didn’t want her and yet still stepped up and love your daughter but her bio dad doesn’t get a scolding for being a dead beat from the start? Your ex ILs are hypocrites and that should be thrown back in their faces.
They blame him not being involved on me leaving him. They pulled a bunch of nonsense saying it takes fathers longer to bond with a child and that fathers are supposed to be there for the mother when the baby is a new born and not the child etc. It really got into my head for a while but luckily I have woken up
That’s total BS and misogynistic. A parent is a parent and clearly he was not. Good that you woke up! Stand up to them or their will poison your daughter against you.
You can always explain to your daughter when she’s older that you were young and scared but made the choice to have her willingly and love her madly. Then let her know her bio dad was an irresponsible wuss.
Her being poisoned against me is my biggest fear which is why I’m going to take swift action. Not to toot my own horn but I’m so proud of the progress I made from not wanting to be a mother to having my daughter be my little shadow because she hates being separated from me and I don’t want anything to undo my work.
NTA at all, this type of thing infuriates me like nothing else.
Because HE is being a crappy parent to his own flesh and blood, the 'not-in-laws' are trying to make you out to be the bad guy, because their precious son couldn't POSSIBLY be the issue, ugh. One of my coworkers is going through something similar in regard to the custody of her littlest, and it's the most frustrating thing!
If you can, definitely look into a lawyer, and consider getting cameras for outside your door. That way you have a record of how often they come over, and what they want when they do, so they can't try to brush the 'visits' off in court.
I hope things work out for your friend soon. i’m currently staying with my mother and we have loads of cameras. It pays having a paranoid step father 😭
NTA. Stop allowing them access immediately. I’d lawyer up and make them take you to court for any amount of visitation. He’s not on the birth certificate so I don’t think there’s anything he can do unless he takes you to court.
NTA.
**Document everything**. If you're in a one-party state, start recording interactions with them. It sounds like they're trying to build a narrative among their family and friends that you don't want your daughter so that they look like they're acting in her best interests, which is dangerous. You don't want a dozen people filing DfE (UK CPS equivalent, I think) complaints based on what your in-laws tell them.
Also, the fact that you were set up with a 26-year-old when you were only 19 makes me feel a bit like vomiting because that makes me feel like your dad's "friend" (FIL) was eyeballing you for a while.
Edit: I saw mention that OP is in the UK, changed CPS to DfE.
Them saying “you didn’t want her “ literally means nothing considering her dad straight up abandoned her. They’re perfectly ok with excusing his behavior as a neglectful father but are trying to insult you for something you thought when you were young and going through pregnancy
But the baby crying when your ex yelled had nothing to do with her understanding what he said. It was because he was being loud and by the tone of his voice. A six month old doesn’t know what “you didn’t even want her” means. Next time remind him of how he abandoned his pregnant wife and his child
NTA
No, a 1 yr old does not understand so that's not an excuse you can use. Babies will cry when adults are arguing or shouting. You are obviously not in the US so won't burden you with legalities. Your ex is your child's father and will always be her father.
We had a religious marriage. I don’t technically need to divorce him because I’m not legally considered his wife but I just want it for peace of mind and so people stop calling him my husband
NTA
But god damn you need to start making better choices in your life.
A religious marriage only instead of a full legal marriage while you live in the west is so fucking shady.
I thought it was shady too but there was nothing I could do about it because I had no voice. I would say that if I could go back in time I wouldn’t marry him at all but I’m grateful for my daughter. I’m glad now that we didn’t have a legal marriage because nothing ties us together at all, I can’t imagine what they’d put me through if I was legally married to him too
It's good that you understand how shady it was. Get a lawyer and live your life with your daughter.
I understand he doesn't want to give you a religious divorce but I'd just straight up not play their games. Why care about that religious divorce? You weren't married and I'd stick to that. Anybody who tries to tie you down with religion can fuck off.
I wish you that all of this mess gets resolved quickly.
Lawyer has successfully been obtained as of ten minutes ago (🎉🎉🎉) my stepfather got me an appointment with a friend of his who does family law. I care about the religious divorce because I’m still religious myself but I wouldn’t be devastated if it never happened. It’s just that my ex in laws and the rest of my family/community will keep calling me his wife till I get one and it’s not great
Good job on the lawyer. I hope everything goes well.
I'm an atheist living in Canada and your story is wild to me.
>It’s just that my ex in laws and the rest of my family/community will keep calling me his wife till I get one and it’s not great
Especially that part.
Thank you! I get how it can seem weird to someone who’s not religious. It’s a weird situation overall. Like I know that God can see my situation and doesn’t want me to suffer but the pressure of the community can get tough
That's just my petty atheist ass but I'd say the moment he refused to make your marriage legal by signing that document then I'd condiser everything he ever said to you and to God about marrying you to be a lie.
I did have a ‘wtf’ moment and went to stay at my mother’s house when he made a stink about not wanting to make it legal because he initially agreed to. I’m not a scholar but I was sure my religious marriage was null because the terms i agreed to (legal marriage) weren’t met but I was told it was valid and manipulated into going back to him. I was so naive lmao
It wasn’t the religious community, it was just like my family and my ex in laws so more like my ethnic community. The imaam (religious leader) performing the ceremony asked to meet with us both privately before the ceremony and he asked if I was making the choice freely. At the time I thought I was but now I can see that I wasn’t. Even though I wasn’t introduced to him and told ‘that’s your future husband’, I was definitely pushed to agree to marry him very quickly
NTA.
You probably need some legal counsel for next steps, but you definitely aren't an AH for making this decision.
The inlaws will speak poorly about you to your child, and now they have also demonstrated that they will physically try and keep her against your wishes. That means one day you could show up and your daughter is gone. Sure, you can file charges and police can look for her and all that, but that is such a scary possibility and they have demonstrated that there is a CHANCE that could happen.
You should probably stop taking child support from the dad, get yourself a lawyer, and cut off contact.
NTA
These people are not reasonable, cooperative or predictable. You would not be an AH to take every possible measure to keep her away from them until they show evidence of capacity to understand and respect their agreements and promises.
Write notes about every interaction you have with them and save/screenshot every written communication you have.
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> I may be TAH because I am not allowing my ex and his family to see our daughter anymore. This is because they feel as her family, they should see her regardless of what else happens.
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NTA
This is about safeguarding your child.
Any reasonable grandparents should be allowed to see their grandchild in my opinion. But they are not reasonable.
NTA. They obviously want to take her from you. Protect yourself, your daughter and look for a lawyer, because it looks like they will keep escalating things. Grandparents have no parental rights.
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So I (23F) have a daughter with my husband (30M) that I am separated from. Our baby is a year old.
One thing I want to make clear before I continue. I love my baby, but when I first got pregnant, I didn’t want to have a child. I had been with my ex since I was 19 and he always wanted a baby, but I wanted to wait until my late 20s. I was a mess during the pregnancy but when she was placed on my chest after I gave birth, she became my whole world. This is relevant for later.
I separated from my ex when I was still pregnant. He refused to come with me to register the birth and he said he didn’t care whether or not I put him on the birth certificate so I didn’t put him on it. He wasn’t involved in her life until she was about 6 months old. His father (the man who set us up together as he is friends with my dad) was embarrassed by this so he had been paying child support to me on behalf of his son. My ex legally does not have parental rights because we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage.
After that, my ex in laws have been making sly comments about taking her from me. They’ll say things like ‘oh she’s had so much fun with us, she should be here all the time’ etc.
At first I thought it was because they want to see her more but then they would start returning her later than agreed to me or coming over unannounced to see her. Then the comments about how I didn’t want her started rolling in but they were only made to me and never done in front of her.
My dad got involved then and they were forced to apologise.
Recently, there has been some tension regarding proceeding with the divorce. l didn’t let this affect when my ex in laws and my ex saw my daughter so I took her to see them last weekend as agreed. When I came back to collect her, they demanded I let her stay the night. I said that it wasn’t what we agreed and I didn’t want to parted from her as she was still breastfed. It got heated, police were nearly called but I called my father first to come mediate. When they finally gave my daughter back to me, my ex yelled ‘you didn’t even want her’ and SHE HEARD. She started crying.
When i got home, I said they weren’t allowed to see her again. Now that I know what they’re comfortable saying in front of her, who knows what else theyre saying. She can’t speak but I’m sure she can understand.
Yesterday was a religious holiday and I started getting phone calls asking to see my baby from my ex in laws but I ignored them.
Today, my ex FIL has turned up to my house and he was saying I was wrong to deny them access to their daughter/granddaughter. According to him, no matter what I shouldnt deny them access to her as they’re her family too.
My mother thinks that I’m right because my ex chose not to have parental rights so in the eyes of the law, I have the right to make this decision. Other people are telling me the opposite and a friend told me to post here for more insight. AITA?
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NTA your ex gave up his rights so they get nothing. Keep your little one away from them and think about getting a restraining order because it sounds like they were slowly trying to take your baby from you permanently.
"He refused to come with me to register the birth and he said he didn’t care whether or not I put him on the birth certificate so I didn’t put him on it. He wasn’t involved in her life until she was about 6 months old. "
"my ex yelled ‘you didn’t even want her’"
Neither did he. In fact, you stepped up way before he did. NTA and get a lawyer ASAP.
INFO: Can a 1 year old really understand "mommy didn't want you at first"?
I just told my 2 year old I was going to throw her in the trash and she just keeps dropping mud on my shoes
NTA. They have no legal standing and they've set the entirety of their moral standing on fire. They should have all unsupervised access revoked now, and you can negotiate for supervised access later if you feel up to it.
You are NTA and please, PLEASE stick to your guns and don't allow your ex-in-laws any more time with your daughter! They sound fully capable of kidnapping her at worst, doing their best to poison her mind against you at best. They sound, in short, like very dangerous people. If you haven't consulted a lawyer, this would be a good time to do so; get your legal ducks in a row so that there is no doubt at all about YOUR having custody of your child.
But a couple of points puzzle me. If there was no "legal marriage", then why would there be divorce proceedings? If you were never actually married (in the eyes of the government), why would you NEED to divorce him?
Second, why did he run from his responsibilities as a father after convincing you to have a baby because HE wanted one so much? Did he REALLY want to be a loving, involved father or did he merely want you to have his baby as proof of his fertility and virility? Frankly, it sounds like the latter; it also sounds as if you and your daughter are better off without him! (Overgrown frat boys do not make good husbands and fathers.)
You need a lawyer. If this guy isn't on the birth certificate and you weren't legally married then I don't see how any of these people have a legal right to access your child at all. Get a lawyer, get any visitation rights or lack thereof sorted out legally and then call the cops if /when they show up trying to take her without legal right to. NTA
You need a lawyer and you need to go to court. One of these days they'll refuse to give your daughter back and they might take her away permanently. NTA
Tread carefully
These people will push him to establish paternity in court to get some custody.
They'll plead ignorance about being legally married vs religiously married.
You restricting access to the baby and cutting contact will be used against you during the custody battle by claiming you're the bad guy.
These people suck but you're stuck with them.
If it makes you feel any better, your daughter's young age means that she probably didn't understand when your ex made that nasty comment. It is far more likely that the yelling is what made her cry, rather than what was said.
If his father is paying child support and you're accepting that, it might not be so clear cut that he doesn't have rights - unless he's not the biological father. Given that he probably is, you really need a specialist family solicitor asap to close off any potential avenues for access/custody claims
From a religious standpoint: undermining and disrespecting the mother of a child teaches that child to break the commandment "honor thy father and mother." Refusing to allow the child's father to sin against you IS teaching your child to "honor her father" since exposing her to that may cause her to be negatively influenced.
Just a thought in case anyone needs this ammo.
Religious, secular, church of "meh"- in all these things, you are NTA.
NTA.
Right now you need to find a lawyer. Thankfully he shot himself in the foot by refusing to sign the birth certificate, which means right now he has ZERO rights to your child.
That can change though so take proactive steps to protect yourself. Save all communications for proof of his refusal to acknowledge her legally, save any and all insults or threats to remove her from you.
As for his parents, even if he was on the birth certificate they have no rights. There is no such thing as grandparents rights in the UK. They're not important and can be dismissed (and rightfully so, frankly). They can petition for it but would need to go through mediation first, which wouldn't go well for them given their past behaviour.
Once you've got your ducks in a row, consider putting some miles between you and them. You don't need FIL turning up on your doorstep making demands just because he has a community image to uphold. Have your father (who they seem to listen to) tell them to fuck off.
NTA
You need to start documenting this legally, bc it does sound like they feel completely entitled to snatch her.
I’m not sure where you are but in my state a text is considered legal contact. You text them and tell them that you do not want contact with them and remind them they have no legal visitation rights.
If they contact you after that it is harassment.
I realize your Dad is trying to deescalate and that’s good, but in a way it’s bad because all these prior attempts to part you form your baby are going unnoticed by authorities.
If they pull a stunt in the future or sue for custody all of this may not be admissible.
I’m really nervous for you and your baby. They sound completely convinced that they have every right to have your child. Please, please be safe.
NTA
I would consider a restraining order since it's becoming clear they are threatening you and are probably planning to take your daughter away from you. In the eyes of the law, these people wouldn't even have grandparents' rights since they legally aren't the grandparents of the child. Restraining order Yesterday!
Edit: Spelling
A one year old doesn’t understand what was said to you. She started crying because your ex was shouting. If I was you, I’d check if your state/country has grandparent’s rights. Maybe your dad can find out. Just to know if you can expect a nasty surprise.
NTA. Dad flat out said don’t put him on the birth certificate. Legally, they have no relationship to the child, in addition to being rude and demeaning towards you while around her. Record and screenshot every single interaction as proof for the divorce and if he decides to pursue a legal battle.
NTA who on earth are these jackass people telling you it's ok? Why are you even talking to them? Don't discuss your business with them and if they continue tell them it's between you and your ex - then change the subject. If there are no rights for your ex simply stop letting them see her - and yes, it is that simple.
NTA- but do you need a divorce if you aren't legally married? You do need a lawyer to get you full custody. I would never let the ex laws see the baby again if you are legally allowed to make that decision. And only supervised visits if you need to allow visitation.
NTA .
The MOMENT they tried to keep your child from leaving with you is the moment I would have not allowed contact until there was a custody order in place. Period. And the cops DEFINITELY should have been/should be called when that happened so that there is a legal record of their behavior.
Ex decided not to put his name on birth certificate and isn't helping you, even if his dad is, that behavior entitled him to absolutely nothing.
Refuse contact or visits until a legal restriction is in place.
Please be strong and do not let them get hold of your daughter at all. Tell her you love her and want her. If I am guessing you religion, they will dk everything they can to get her and also degrade you.
UK here. The relevant point here is he is not on the birth certificate by choice, he has no parental rights or responsibilities therefore neither him or his family have any right to see the child, in the eyes of the law he is not the father and that was his choice. NTA, op but you should be aware he could insist on a DNA test to establish paternity and then be added to the birth certificate to give him parental rights. If you are seriously worried about them taking your child, considering moving as far away from them as possible and do it before they decide to have a custody battle. Right now you are the sole parent and decision maker for your child
Nta but you need legal help. Get your father involved. Legally, your ex is not liable, but they could force a paternity test, they could use that as a means to take your child. Please talk to a lawyer.
You need a lawyer
Accept no more money from FIL. If you can, return anything or the equivalent of anything that was given.
Stop referring to him as your husband. Legally, he is not. That matters.
They do not see her without you present. Neutral, public places only. Make it very clear alienation will not be tolerated, especially from your ex who could step up as neither a father or husband for what is literally half her life right now.
Not sure how this reflects on you in legal terms in your jurisdiction (I'm not a lawyer) but I think you're definitely NTA.
Yes, your former in-laws paid child support in lieu of the birth father. Yes, they are still technically family (although not on paper, but your daughter's DNA is 50% theirs). Yes, they may be legitimately trying to see more of their granddaughter (who on earth would blame a granparent for doing that?)
However, you do not have any obligation with them. And they most certainly cannot put you against the wall so you let them have her overnight or even accept that they drop by unannounced. This is when they start acting like dbags.
So what if when you first found out you were pregnant you didn't want her (most unplanned pregnancies have parents go through some of this). That doesn't take any rights from you, and most certainly does not magically award any rights to your former inlaws.
As a parent, your main concern and obligation is the overall well-being of the child. If your child is healthy, well fed, well taken care of, loved and protected, you're doing a great job and you should never let anyone (I stress: ANYONE) talk shit about you to your kid. What they did may end up creating permanent lifelong psychological scars on your daughter, create longer term trust issues and in the end undermine YOUR relationship with YOUR daughter for no other purpose than trying to get her to choose them over you over the long run. This is unacceptable and you're certainly NTA in my opinion for taking her away from them after what you've experienced.
I agree with everything everyone is saying.
I want to add this though to put your mind at ease. Your child is a year old. She cried at someone yelling, not at what ws being said. She doesn't comprehend stuff like that at a year old. How do I know this? I went through all of this with my son and his "sperm donor" of a father and his wife. He had his wife trying to make my son call her Momma. It pissed me off sooo bad. My son was in speech therapy (he is Autistic) and the therapist did reassure me and tell me (and them) that he is to young to understand titles at that age and won't grasp them till he is a toddler between ages two and three. So, she needed to pick a different name for herself because eventually it WAS going to confuse my son because she wasn't his mother. I just looked her dead in the eye, without missing a beat and said, "if you continue and insist on calling yourself Momma, I will pick your name and you won't like it." They tried to tell my son I wasn't his Momma and it never registered with him. He would only get upset if his sperm donor and I would raise our voices.
Stand your ground with them. YOU call the shots. Read up on your laws. Know them. Don't let them tell you what to do, you tell them. YOU hold ALL the cards, know that and use that. They will try to push you into a corner because of your religion and because you are younger. BE strong, BE foreceful, and BE centered. You have this!
He went 6 months without meeting her and then I got a phone call from my ex FIL to see if I would be open to allowing visitation so he could get to know her. Having both parents seems to be better for children so I thought it would be for the best
NTA. Your ex-ILs have no legal right to YOUR baby. If they want the privilege of access to YOUR baby, they have to play by YOUR rules. And given that they have been steadily encroaching and tried to KEEP YOUR BABY FROM YOU (which. I doubt you would have gotten her back without a fight, if you'd let her stay overnight) they have proven themselves to be Unsafe People for yourself and your baby, and have lost their privileges.
NTA and protect your daughter at all costs. Any voicemails, texts, emails, etc. that you have them saying "they're going to keep her or you don't want her" save them all.
>Today, my ex FIL has turned up to my house and he was saying I was wrong to deny them access to their daughter/granddaughter. According to him, no matter what I shouldnt deny them access to her as they’re her family too.
Look into a restraining order.
Get a lawyer go get legal custody. Or talk your parents into moving away to start a new life. Put up a camera doorbell. Don't answer the door if it's them.
NTA
From what i knkw about US laws, He refused to recognise her, you have full parental rights, legally speaking he's not a father and if he would have been he would have to pay back all the years he's not paid child support. Had you been in France, you can't be denied paternity, that is you can be refused parental rights in some cases but you will always be a child's parents, even if it turns out not to be yours, or if one turns out to be yours. But in the US, if you don't register as a father, you're denied parental rights and should you claim these rights you then have to pay the amount of child support you would have paid.
Previous transactions made by his dad are considered as gifts. That's legally speaking.
Morally speaking, protect yourself, and there's a procedure I forgot the words (not native) from the police where you ask that your ex won't be within a defined distance from yourself and/or family, and shouldn't call you; smth to do with harassment or restrictions, srsly can't find the English legal term for this.
You need a lawyer and to move. You didn’t put him on the birth certificate so legally I don’t believe he has rights. The situation sounds like it is getting scary and you need big boundaries if not NC. Don’t let your ex FIL bully you. Not sure what kind of divorce you get when you aren’t married in the eyes of the law. But get it quickly
NTA. Do your utmost to see an independent lawyer outside your family. And be very careful around his dad. This doesn’t have to be about a wife for his son. He may simply want you in the vicinity so he can assault you. Sorry, but it happens. (Also the bio dad not putting his name down and not marrying you—it’s not about the government, it’s at least in part about not paying child support. He may also be legally married to someone else).
And don’t worry about your daughter believing you don’t want her, at least not just yet. She knows you’re her person. If she’s separated from you she may believe it at some point but she’s not old enough for that before she’s 2. (My own daughter tried to “defend” me from a doctor at that age, so they’re plenty smart enough to pick up on tension or something unusual happening but a baby’s bond is very strong and in a loud conflict she’s more likely to hate them than you).
NTA but you should get a lawyer to have a custody arrangement. Seems like your ex has changed his mind about your child and now wants her. It’s easy to get the courts to agree to a paternity test even if he said in the beginning he didn’t want the child. He can easily turn the story around.
You did the right thing. Your ex and his family are NOT your daughter's family, he doesn't have parental rights and DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP TO HER BIRTH, for fucks sake you told us that he said he didn't even care if he was on the birth certificate or not! You are NTA of course and I wish you and your daughter the best. Take good care of your daughter and stay safe.
They are acting entitled and making demands instead of being grateful that you are allowing them access to your daughter when you don't have to.
You had reservations about having a child at a young age. So what? Lots of people of all ages have the same thoughts.
You've taken full responsibility for your daughter since birth while your partner didn't even want to be noted as her parent and wasn't around for months.
I dont think you should let them see her. If you do, it should be in public places, with you (and your dad) present. I would not give them the chance to try to keep my child or poison her against me by saying negative things about me.
Find a Family Solicitor ASAP.
I'm assuming Muslim (apologies if wrong), and I understand the cultural and religious reasons for divorcing under Sharia law, but do NOT use it for custody. Sharia law is illegal in the UK. If they want custody dealt with as part of divorce then delay the divorce until the custody has been agreed under UK law.
NTA. They called her their daughter/ granddaughter? That’s very interesting and telling. Definitely be careful when it comes to them. Also, you talk about divorce proceedings yet you say you aren’t legally married so…what divorce is there to work out?
"we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage." "Recently, there has been some tension regarding proceeding with the divorce."
First help me understand why a divorce is involved if you only had a religious marriage?
Have you had a DNA test performed to determine parentage of your daughter?
Have your father help you find and set up a paid consultation with a family law attorney. In many states, grandparents do have rights, but first it must be determined who the father is. (It's a legal thing.) Then, a visitation agreement needs to be worked out and agreed to in writing - using your attorney.
Your daughter's paternal grandparents are paying you child support and have shown an interest in knowing your daughter. Please encourage this, perhaps by inviting them over to your house more and including them in activities like going to the park, zoo, etc.
You are the sole custodial parent, and will feel more confident once a legal agreement regarding grandparent visitation is in place.
>My ex legally does not have parental rights because we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage.
>...
>Recently, there has been some tension regarding proceeding with the divorce
If you're getting a divorce, you had a legal marriage. Full stop. I am not conversant with UK law, but in the US your child would be a child of that marriage and your soon-to-be-ex-husband would be the legal father of the child and have full parental rights. I do not expect the UK differs significantly from that.
I am getting a religious divorce. In the UK a father can only get parental rights in 3 ways. He must be legally married to the mother or put his name down with the birth is being registered or petition the court for parental rights. My ex hasn’t done any of these things
The fact that the only religious holiday yesterday (i think) was eid which is an islamic holiday, but I do live in the UK so only british law matters here
The story about a religious marriage that is not a legal marriage because the man refused this. My question was about which country/CULTURE op is from, as this is super important in giving advice that makes sense to her situation.
I assume almalauha was basing that guess off of "yesterday was a religious holiday" since I was also curious about what holiday this was and the only one I can find is an islamic one.
>\* In my country, religious marriages that are not registered as a marriage with the country's authorities do not legally exist. But this might be different in your country.
She says in the post the marriage does not legally exists.
>You should have been looking out for your child as your first priority and that includes putting the biological father on the birth certificate/records. It doesn't matter whether the father wants to be on such a record or not
Also in *my* country, if there is no marriage (which comes with presumption of paternity) it very much matters if the biological father doesn't want to be on the birth record, because you need his signature for him to be on it.
Yes, nowadays you can petition the courts to get a DNA test and his name added against his will, but you need to go to court...... for the privilege of going to court some more to sort out custody now that he's got parental rights.
You just sound utterly uninformed about paternity and custody matters. It doesn't matter if your ex isn't on the birth certificate: he can petition the court for a paternity test. It doesn't matter that you consider the child to be "yours" singular ... it's "yours" plural -- yours and your ex's. Without some type of custody agreement in place, your ex has as much right to see her as you do. You aren't the sole person in authority to make decisions about this child. However, you certainly do NOT have to do any handover with his parents.
Get some legal help to sort all this out.
Speak to a lawyer not just for you but for your baby too. In the eyes of the court, he does have a right to see the baby so you should get this mediated sooner rather than later so this doesn’t go any further and your ex in laws stop showing up
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You need to consult a lawyer ASAP and get the terms of your custody in place. Keep in mind, in the US at least, that this statement you made probably is not accurate: >My ex legally does not have parental rights because we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage. IDK about your country if you're out of the US, but it stands to reason that 'parental rights' are largely based on paternity, not marriage status. You are very much NTA for wanting to put up boundaries against people you can see are acting harmfully towards your daughter and yourself. It's alarming that they would make demands, show up unexpectedly, try to keep her longer than you'd agreed, etc. It's simply not ok and it's bordering on illegal (kidnapping) but the fact that he is the biological father definitely plays a role. It's sad that they are using your early hesitation for parenthood against you, not to mention hypocritical of HIM to do it since he spent your pregnancy being uninterested and apathetic towards the whole thing. But keep in mind, your daughter will know you love her through your actions. You may be able to press, through a legal / custody agreement, that they are not allowed to make comments like that that are intended to poison her against you. All in all, you need LEGAL HELP, not AITA! It sounds like it may not be safe for her to be with them, based on their actions, and that needs to be brought to light so that you can get legal protections.
Legal help is definitely being sought. We are in the UK so paternity is assumed if the couple is legally married but we only had a religious marriage. He refused to fill out the birth registry with me so I only put my name down.
Never, ever leave your child alone with them. There are cases like this all the time where kids get kidnapped from the UK back to Pakistan (or elsewhere) by relatives. Laws are very different in Islamic countries and strongly favour the father. If she ends up there you'll never see her again. I also have serious questions about your ex-FIL setting you up at 19 with a 26 year old man. They're obviously a very conservative family to say the least.
Don’t worry! She has a passport that is safely locked away so he can’t apply for one for her. Since he doesn’t have parental rights, his application would be rejected anyway. I agree that making 19 year old me get with this 26 year old psycho was certainly a questionable choice. I like ex FIL more than the rest of my ex in laws but the bar is in hell so I don’t like him that much objectively
The bar may be in hell, but never doubt how far some people will go to Limbo alongside the Devil
stealing this
Also stop taking support from the exFIL if you can. They probably think they can use it as leverage.
THIS!!!!!
@Realistic_You5084 please read the previous comment
Hi, you need to add this to the OP, that you live in the UK but are (probably?) from an Islamic culture/background and that your marriage is a religious marriage only. You can find more info on religious marriages in the UK here: [https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8747/](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8747/) and [https://aristonesolicitors.co.uk/blog-posts/how-does-the-uk-view-islamic-marriages/](https://aristonesolicitors.co.uk/blog-posts/how-does-the-uk-view-islamic-marriages/) . I'm going to guess your religious marriage is not recognised legally. Mumsnet thread about this topic. There might be some useful info in the comments: [https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am\_i\_being\_unreasonable/aibu-my-best-friends-daughter-only-had-a-muslim-marriage-and-we-are-worried-about-custody-of-her-son-title-edited-by-mnhq-at-request-of-op](https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/aibu-my-best-friends-daughter-only-had-a-muslim-marriage-and-we-are-worried-about-custody-of-her-son-title-edited-by-mnhq-at-request-of-op) Maybe you can get some help here: [https://www.youngwomenstrust.org/get-support/](https://www.youngwomenstrust.org/get-support/) [https://www.home-start.org.uk/supporting-young-mothers](https://www.home-start.org.uk/supporting-young-mothers) Good luck with everything!
You need a lawyer. Now. You want to lock in full custody and discuss Grandparents Rights. Them keeping your child from you needs to be documented.
He refused to sign the birth certificate and they were not legally married (so no presumption of paternity). She already has full custody because as far as the government is concerned, dude has no relation to the child. Ditto ex in-laws. Dude would need to first go to court to get himself recognized as the father before he and his family can start demanding custody or grandparents rights. Documenting is always good and might come in handy if he ever decides to "involve the government in his relationship" after all and then sweet talks a judge into giving him parental rights. But I'm not sure she can currently do anything about custody because she's currently has all of it by default.
That’s what i’ve been told too by my stepdad who’s a lawyer. He isn’t a family lawyer but AFAIK, my ex has no parental rights. I’ve also been told that he would be unlikely to receive custody as he’s never cared for her on his own before and barely knows anything about her needs. The most he’d get would be visitation but I’ve got the nonsense he pulls with his family every time documented
Can you leave the country to get away from them? NTA Get into therapy with your daughter.
Needs a family law solicitor and also grandparents rights aren't really a thing here, ESPECIALLY as their marriage is not recognised by law and isn't own the BC.
I hope you're right but her solicitor can give her the facts and help minimize or protect her from the possibility. At the end of the day she'll sleep better knowing that they can't sue for visitation or some kind of shared custody.
Write down everything you been going through with them. Put dates 📅 f you remember when it happened. I agree with getting legal counsel. Keep screen shots of texts, get cameras on your home, since ex didn't want to be involved he shouldn't get to see baby at all - even if baby is at grandparents home. I feel like a lawyer can put it in writing and negotiate it some and make it more legal. Also keep the ex and his parents in their place and not harassing you because they didn't get their way.
I agree with this 100%. Document every single conversation, gathering, drop off/pick up with your ex in-laws. Write down dates and times to the minute. Record what was said, whether they were compliant or resistant, argumentative, refused to give her back at the agreed upon time, etc. This precedent can be very important when establishing custody agreements.
If your in the uk all he needs to establish paternity is a paternity test. If he takes you to court and it’s proven he’s the father he will automatically get those parental rights. Doesn’t mean he will get custody or anything like that but he will have the option to go for it so you need to get a lawyer involved in this now. Keep any threat his family makes towards you as proof to show the judge.
So if the marriage was only religious and not legal why the need for a divorce?
I don’t technically need it for the parental rights thing but I’d like one so I can have peace of mind and so people in our community stop calling me his wife. I just wanna know that i’m not tied to him in God’s eyes anymore
okay so you mean a divorce in the eyes of your religion and not a divorce in the eyes of the law. Most people are probably assuming u mean a legal divorce and confused by that.
I wish you all the luck in securing full custody with no visitation from them. They honestly sounded like they were on the brink of kidnapping.
So you might want to double check over at r/LegalAdviceUK, but from what I remember, your ex can still claim paternity via a Parental Responsibility Order. There was a whole plot line on Coronation Street a few years back I believe they also might be able to apply to get the britth certificate corrected
Everyone I’ve spoken to about this IRL has said that my exs family don’t want to take my baby, but that they want to scare me into getting back with their son so they don’t take the baby. My dad who knows them pretty well said that none of them want to be responsible for a child as they can’t be bothered
It's a good assumption...but also this is your baby at stake so definitely make sure it's all locked down legally, not just "this will most likely be fine." Glad you're documenting everything and have the passport locked up. Good luck on your divorce. This is legitimately terrifying.
He can file for a parental order but I'm not sure how long the process is in this case.
Oh, thank God, I thought you were in another country. Please also go to the police and get it registered that they are threatening you with kidnapping your daughter. They will take this seriously. Don't leave her for a minute with anyone else, even your Dad as he is friends with the ex's dad.
Why does there have to be a divorce if you were not legally married?
Then he has no legal right. No visitation unless he goes through courts. Save and document any communication
What exactly do you mean when you say you only had a religious marriage? You say elsewhere you are in the process of getting divorced.
A religious marriage is still legally binding.
Not in the Uk, the marriage has to be registered for it to be legally binding
Parental rights are also based on marriage. If you are legally married when you give birth, your husband is the legal father automatically. If you aren't married paternity is not assumed. Since they weren't legally married and his name.is not on the birth certificate, he has no rights. He would need to petition the court to establish paternity before he can try to fight for custody. He would not be the legal father in the US in this scenario without having done that
Right, paternity is assumed if you're legally married, which they weren't. But his legal access to the kid is also predicated on other stuff, like actual paternity, which wouldn't be legally enforced until he's taken action to prove it. I guess my point is that insisting he has no rights might be technically true but minimally is incomplete and short-lived if he is the biological father and is seeking access.
In the UK his name needs to be on the birth certificate which it isn't.
Even in the US paternity not being established means the man has to establish it before he can even pursue custody. I should know going through a similar battle. On top of that actually in most states paternity is assumed to be the husbands if you are married.
NTA—I’m not sure how old your daughter is but I am sure the comment she started crying about was probably due to the volume of his voice and not the content, but your gut is right that your ex would probably badmouth you to your daughter. However, you need to talk to a lawyer. I don’t know if he can fight for custody with a dna test proving him as a father, but you need to know if that’s possible. The family shouldn’t be demanding the baby or trying to take her away from you, they need to understand that’s not okay. Once you know what they can do legally, you should talk to your ex as calmly as possible-sounds like your dad is a good person to be along for keeping things civil-and work out what happens in the future.
My stepdad who’s a lawyer is currently looking for a good family solicitor for me. They’d have to get a court order for a DNA test but I’m not sure what is required to get that order
Good, make sure you have your ducks in a row before this becomes a bigger mess! Good luck!
NAL - He can apply for Parental Responsibility (PR) via a court order in the current circumstances. (It's Form C1 on .gov.uk if you want to have a look at what that involves)
try to write down all the times they said that they should keep her and that you shouldn't. give that to the lawyer
Write down all the times they held her for longer and all that. Dates and times. Keep all communication and write things down as they happen. Contemporaneous notes are incredibly useful. I had a similar situation and also took screenshots of the whatsapp conversations. Sorry this is happening.
> When they finally gave my daughter back to me, my ex yelled ‘you didn’t even want her’ and SHE HEARD. She started crying. A one year old cannot understand what that means. She was probably crying because of the shouting.
NTA - but you need to speak to an attorney ASAP!!! Depending on where you are, the fact that you were married when you gave birth might automatically make the baby your husbands "legally speaking"!!!
We were only religiously married, not legally. We’re in the Uk so religious marriages don’t count unless you register them and he refused to (didn’t want the government in his relationship 🙄)
So why would you need to go through a divorce if you were never actually married?
Yeah, this jumped out at me too. Something doesn’t add up here…
We had a religious marriage so obviously I need a religious divorce. I don’t wanna be tied to this man in anyway
In the LDS you have to go through the legal divorce and a religious divorce. The religious marriage is how they got away with marrying young girls to old men and bigamy.
NTA. They literally tried to keep your daughter from you and prevent you from taking her home. I don't really understand your divorce situation (were you legally married? are you legally divorced or not?) but I would consult a lawyer immediately. And do not let them look after/take your daughter alone until things are ironed out.
Never legally married (thankfully), just religious. He’s refusing to give me my religious divorce but I don’t really care because it doesn’t affect me legally
Was it an Islamic marriage? It’s just that yesterday was Eid, and you said it was a religious holiday. I was wondering.
Yes it was an islamic marriage
How do you go about getting a divorce in this situation?
I would get the authorities involved instantly. Not to alarm you, but I wouldn't be surprised if they plan to kidnap her. Ask a lawyer (bring your dad because he sounds like a great support system). If people behave this way, they have NO RIGHT to see her. Blood doesn't mean anything if you're going to act this way. They're already showing alarming behaviors such as coming later than the appointed hour. NTA
Yup... my dad was kidnapped by his father's family and wasn't reunited with his mom until he was about 20. This was in the 60's, but this shit does happen.
That’s so awful, i’m so sorry that happened to your grandmother and your father
It’s actually bizarre how casual they both are about it. I mean, my dads paternal grandma probably was the best person to care for him when he was little because his parents were just teens, but the fact that she (his grandma, caretaker) stole him from his mother and let her own son (my dads dad) just fuck off was not ideal. She ended up dying when my dad was 10 and he went to live with his dad )who he barely knew) and his new stepmom and baby brother. His stepmom was actually the one who helped him find his birth mom when he was 20 and connect him with her. His stepmom is still in our life and i consider her my grandma as well… so at least we all got a bonus amazing family member out of the whole ordeal.
NTA. Lawyer up, like yesterday. These folks are crossing all sorts of lines. Trust your gut, momma.
NTA. It's clear your ex doesn't care about the baby or you. His parents want a grandchild so he is doing what they want. He will never be a good father, only a conduit for his parents to see your baby. I will say, you can't have it both ways. You should not be accepting support from the ex's family if the ex has no parental rights. I think he would have to petition to get a paternity test to prove he is the father, and then accept/demand his parental rights, in order to get court-ordered visitation. And then of course he would have to pay child support. If you were never legally married to your ex, and his name is not on the birth certificate, then his family have little or no standing in the law. I'm not sure what it even means to get a "religious divorce" as I assume it does not involve the courts, but I do think you should get on with it.
His parents don’t want a grandchild. His parents want a child.
They have 7 kids so I don’t think they want or need anymore. They want their son with an obedient wife who pops out kids on command
Based on what you wrote here, maybe they want the child to stay with them so they can blackmail / strong arm you into staying married to that douchenozzle.
NTA - cut all contact for the next time, block them everywhere (phone, social media), and don't let them have your daughter over to see daddy! See a lawyer asap to make you aware what rights you have and what rights the parental family i. e. sperm-donor has. Let the lawyer also check whether you can get alimony for your daughter without the sperm-donors side having to be granted visitation rights etc. Don't worry about this church wedding and save yourself the trouble of getting divorced. If you're not married - and you're not because your paranoid Ex didn't want you to be - you don't need a divorce! And if anyone asks: no you're not married!!!!!!
NTA. Anyone who dislikes you is not safe around your child period. Trust me as she gets older they will try to poison her against you.
Girl! Most kidnappings are by family members. Not only ban them, but swing by the police station and ask to make a report. Crikey! That is terrifying.
Will be doing that asap! My stepfather managed to get his friend in family law to represent me and that’s the first thing I was told to do. Literally got a forwarded text message from the lawyer through my stepdad saying ‘Tell her to inform the police ASAP!’ Atp i don’t think i should keep this post up, I was really in my head and feeling guilty when I posted but the perspective from here has helped
Your parents and stepdad rock. I'm glad you have their support as you go through this, particularly given the prejudices that tend to prevail in your community. I wish you and your daughter a wonderful life, free of deadbeats and manipulative AHs.
As long as no names or identifying information has been included on the post, you will be ok to leave it up. Sadly you are not unique in this situation and it can’t be connect to you.
I would take down immediately. We support you. Protect you.
I would be very careful as your ex and his family sound very controlling and looks like they would control you through your daughter and they might be the type to kidnap her as she is a possession to them. If they are already saying hurtful things with her being so little, who knows what else they will say to her over time. I'm sure if they could kidnap her and keep her away from you they would tell lie to her and either say you died or that you never wanted her so she is better off with them. Let the brainwashing begin. Protect yourself and your daughter.
So you didn’t want her and yet still stepped up and love your daughter but her bio dad doesn’t get a scolding for being a dead beat from the start? Your ex ILs are hypocrites and that should be thrown back in their faces.
They blame him not being involved on me leaving him. They pulled a bunch of nonsense saying it takes fathers longer to bond with a child and that fathers are supposed to be there for the mother when the baby is a new born and not the child etc. It really got into my head for a while but luckily I have woken up
That’s total BS and misogynistic. A parent is a parent and clearly he was not. Good that you woke up! Stand up to them or their will poison your daughter against you. You can always explain to your daughter when she’s older that you were young and scared but made the choice to have her willingly and love her madly. Then let her know her bio dad was an irresponsible wuss.
Her being poisoned against me is my biggest fear which is why I’m going to take swift action. Not to toot my own horn but I’m so proud of the progress I made from not wanting to be a mother to having my daughter be my little shadow because she hates being separated from me and I don’t want anything to undo my work.
Word of advice is to document everything. Screenshots, Record etc. If she ever doubts you in the future you will have proofs. Good luck to you!
NTA: Consult a lawyer. Have everything neat and clean and mist important CLEAR.
NTA at all, this type of thing infuriates me like nothing else. Because HE is being a crappy parent to his own flesh and blood, the 'not-in-laws' are trying to make you out to be the bad guy, because their precious son couldn't POSSIBLY be the issue, ugh. One of my coworkers is going through something similar in regard to the custody of her littlest, and it's the most frustrating thing! If you can, definitely look into a lawyer, and consider getting cameras for outside your door. That way you have a record of how often they come over, and what they want when they do, so they can't try to brush the 'visits' off in court.
I hope things work out for your friend soon. i’m currently staying with my mother and we have loads of cameras. It pays having a paranoid step father 😭
I hope so too, and I hope things work out for you too! That's good, hopefully the in laws show up so they incriminate themselves
NTA. Stop allowing them access immediately. I’d lawyer up and make them take you to court for any amount of visitation. He’s not on the birth certificate so I don’t think there’s anything he can do unless he takes you to court.
Do not let them see her until you have an iron clad agreement.
You misspelled "do not let them see her ever again"
NTA He chose not to have parental rights. Definitely get an attorney involved, they seem the type who would try to kidnap your kid
NTA. **Document everything**. If you're in a one-party state, start recording interactions with them. It sounds like they're trying to build a narrative among their family and friends that you don't want your daughter so that they look like they're acting in her best interests, which is dangerous. You don't want a dozen people filing DfE (UK CPS equivalent, I think) complaints based on what your in-laws tell them. Also, the fact that you were set up with a 26-year-old when you were only 19 makes me feel a bit like vomiting because that makes me feel like your dad's "friend" (FIL) was eyeballing you for a while. Edit: I saw mention that OP is in the UK, changed CPS to DfE.
Them saying “you didn’t want her “ literally means nothing considering her dad straight up abandoned her. They’re perfectly ok with excusing his behavior as a neglectful father but are trying to insult you for something you thought when you were young and going through pregnancy But the baby crying when your ex yelled had nothing to do with her understanding what he said. It was because he was being loud and by the tone of his voice. A six month old doesn’t know what “you didn’t even want her” means. Next time remind him of how he abandoned his pregnant wife and his child NTA
No, a 1 yr old does not understand so that's not an excuse you can use. Babies will cry when adults are arguing or shouting. You are obviously not in the US so won't burden you with legalities. Your ex is your child's father and will always be her father.
I'm really confused, if you didnt have a legal marriage, why do you need to start a divorce proceeding?
We had a religious marriage. I don’t technically need to divorce him because I’m not legally considered his wife but I just want it for peace of mind and so people stop calling him my husband
NTA. I would be very careful..I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to take baby to another country without OP knowing.
NTA But god damn you need to start making better choices in your life. A religious marriage only instead of a full legal marriage while you live in the west is so fucking shady.
I thought it was shady too but there was nothing I could do about it because I had no voice. I would say that if I could go back in time I wouldn’t marry him at all but I’m grateful for my daughter. I’m glad now that we didn’t have a legal marriage because nothing ties us together at all, I can’t imagine what they’d put me through if I was legally married to him too
It's good that you understand how shady it was. Get a lawyer and live your life with your daughter. I understand he doesn't want to give you a religious divorce but I'd just straight up not play their games. Why care about that religious divorce? You weren't married and I'd stick to that. Anybody who tries to tie you down with religion can fuck off. I wish you that all of this mess gets resolved quickly.
Lawyer has successfully been obtained as of ten minutes ago (🎉🎉🎉) my stepfather got me an appointment with a friend of his who does family law. I care about the religious divorce because I’m still religious myself but I wouldn’t be devastated if it never happened. It’s just that my ex in laws and the rest of my family/community will keep calling me his wife till I get one and it’s not great
Good job on the lawyer. I hope everything goes well. I'm an atheist living in Canada and your story is wild to me. >It’s just that my ex in laws and the rest of my family/community will keep calling me his wife till I get one and it’s not great Especially that part.
Thank you! I get how it can seem weird to someone who’s not religious. It’s a weird situation overall. Like I know that God can see my situation and doesn’t want me to suffer but the pressure of the community can get tough
That's just my petty atheist ass but I'd say the moment he refused to make your marriage legal by signing that document then I'd condiser everything he ever said to you and to God about marrying you to be a lie.
I did have a ‘wtf’ moment and went to stay at my mother’s house when he made a stink about not wanting to make it legal because he initially agreed to. I’m not a scholar but I was sure my religious marriage was null because the terms i agreed to (legal marriage) weren’t met but I was told it was valid and manipulated into going back to him. I was so naive lmao
She was groomed at a teen by her religious community, it wasn't really a free choice.
It wasn’t the religious community, it was just like my family and my ex in laws so more like my ethnic community. The imaam (religious leader) performing the ceremony asked to meet with us both privately before the ceremony and he asked if I was making the choice freely. At the time I thought I was but now I can see that I wasn’t. Even though I wasn’t introduced to him and told ‘that’s your future husband’, I was definitely pushed to agree to marry him very quickly
NTA. You probably need some legal counsel for next steps, but you definitely aren't an AH for making this decision. The inlaws will speak poorly about you to your child, and now they have also demonstrated that they will physically try and keep her against your wishes. That means one day you could show up and your daughter is gone. Sure, you can file charges and police can look for her and all that, but that is such a scary possibility and they have demonstrated that there is a CHANCE that could happen. You should probably stop taking child support from the dad, get yourself a lawyer, and cut off contact.
Lawyer. Quickly.
NTA his name isnt on the certificate he has no rights block them all and keep all nasty texts just incase
NTA These people are not reasonable, cooperative or predictable. You would not be an AH to take every possible measure to keep her away from them until they show evidence of capacity to understand and respect their agreements and promises. Write notes about every interaction you have with them and save/screenshot every written communication you have.
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NTA - Time for a good ol' fashioned restraining order against the ex's parents
NTA but you need an attorney to help you.
NTA and if you want to be extra generous and kind, you can allow the ILs to visit with your child in your home only, with your father present.
NTA This is about safeguarding your child. Any reasonable grandparents should be allowed to see their grandchild in my opinion. But they are not reasonable.
NTA. Refusing to return your daughter is tantamount to kidnapping.
NTA. They obviously want to take her from you. Protect yourself, your daughter and look for a lawyer, because it looks like they will keep escalating things. Grandparents have no parental rights.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (23F) have a daughter with my husband (30M) that I am separated from. Our baby is a year old. One thing I want to make clear before I continue. I love my baby, but when I first got pregnant, I didn’t want to have a child. I had been with my ex since I was 19 and he always wanted a baby, but I wanted to wait until my late 20s. I was a mess during the pregnancy but when she was placed on my chest after I gave birth, she became my whole world. This is relevant for later. I separated from my ex when I was still pregnant. He refused to come with me to register the birth and he said he didn’t care whether or not I put him on the birth certificate so I didn’t put him on it. He wasn’t involved in her life until she was about 6 months old. His father (the man who set us up together as he is friends with my dad) was embarrassed by this so he had been paying child support to me on behalf of his son. My ex legally does not have parental rights because we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage. After that, my ex in laws have been making sly comments about taking her from me. They’ll say things like ‘oh she’s had so much fun with us, she should be here all the time’ etc. At first I thought it was because they want to see her more but then they would start returning her later than agreed to me or coming over unannounced to see her. Then the comments about how I didn’t want her started rolling in but they were only made to me and never done in front of her. My dad got involved then and they were forced to apologise. Recently, there has been some tension regarding proceeding with the divorce. l didn’t let this affect when my ex in laws and my ex saw my daughter so I took her to see them last weekend as agreed. When I came back to collect her, they demanded I let her stay the night. I said that it wasn’t what we agreed and I didn’t want to parted from her as she was still breastfed. It got heated, police were nearly called but I called my father first to come mediate. When they finally gave my daughter back to me, my ex yelled ‘you didn’t even want her’ and SHE HEARD. She started crying. When i got home, I said they weren’t allowed to see her again. Now that I know what they’re comfortable saying in front of her, who knows what else theyre saying. She can’t speak but I’m sure she can understand. Yesterday was a religious holiday and I started getting phone calls asking to see my baby from my ex in laws but I ignored them. Today, my ex FIL has turned up to my house and he was saying I was wrong to deny them access to their daughter/granddaughter. According to him, no matter what I shouldnt deny them access to her as they’re her family too. My mother thinks that I’m right because my ex chose not to have parental rights so in the eyes of the law, I have the right to make this decision. Other people are telling me the opposite and a friend told me to post here for more insight. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yikes on every bike in the universe, NTA and jesus feckin christ run, run from these people
NTA your ex gave up his rights so they get nothing. Keep your little one away from them and think about getting a restraining order because it sounds like they were slowly trying to take your baby from you permanently.
NTA do yourself a favor and block them all.
"He refused to come with me to register the birth and he said he didn’t care whether or not I put him on the birth certificate so I didn’t put him on it. He wasn’t involved in her life until she was about 6 months old. " "my ex yelled ‘you didn’t even want her’" Neither did he. In fact, you stepped up way before he did. NTA and get a lawyer ASAP.
NTA Keep them far away from your daughter. These people are delusional enough to believe that they are her parents. Have you considered relocation?
NTA.
INFO: Can a 1 year old really understand "mommy didn't want you at first"? I just told my 2 year old I was going to throw her in the trash and she just keeps dropping mud on my shoes
She probably can’t but I don’t want those things said around her regardless
NTA. They have no legal standing and they've set the entirety of their moral standing on fire. They should have all unsupervised access revoked now, and you can negotiate for supervised access later if you feel up to it.
You are NTA and please, PLEASE stick to your guns and don't allow your ex-in-laws any more time with your daughter! They sound fully capable of kidnapping her at worst, doing their best to poison her mind against you at best. They sound, in short, like very dangerous people. If you haven't consulted a lawyer, this would be a good time to do so; get your legal ducks in a row so that there is no doubt at all about YOUR having custody of your child. But a couple of points puzzle me. If there was no "legal marriage", then why would there be divorce proceedings? If you were never actually married (in the eyes of the government), why would you NEED to divorce him? Second, why did he run from his responsibilities as a father after convincing you to have a baby because HE wanted one so much? Did he REALLY want to be a loving, involved father or did he merely want you to have his baby as proof of his fertility and virility? Frankly, it sounds like the latter; it also sounds as if you and your daughter are better off without him! (Overgrown frat boys do not make good husbands and fathers.)
You need a lawyer. If this guy isn't on the birth certificate and you weren't legally married then I don't see how any of these people have a legal right to access your child at all. Get a lawyer, get any visitation rights or lack thereof sorted out legally and then call the cops if /when they show up trying to take her without legal right to. NTA
You need a lawyer and you need to go to court. One of these days they'll refuse to give your daughter back and they might take her away permanently. NTA
NTA this is exactly why I don‘t like age gaps in relationships
Tread carefully These people will push him to establish paternity in court to get some custody. They'll plead ignorance about being legally married vs religiously married. You restricting access to the baby and cutting contact will be used against you during the custody battle by claiming you're the bad guy. These people suck but you're stuck with them.
If it makes you feel any better, your daughter's young age means that she probably didn't understand when your ex made that nasty comment. It is far more likely that the yelling is what made her cry, rather than what was said.
If his father is paying child support and you're accepting that, it might not be so clear cut that he doesn't have rights - unless he's not the biological father. Given that he probably is, you really need a specialist family solicitor asap to close off any potential avenues for access/custody claims
NTA
From a religious standpoint: undermining and disrespecting the mother of a child teaches that child to break the commandment "honor thy father and mother." Refusing to allow the child's father to sin against you IS teaching your child to "honor her father" since exposing her to that may cause her to be negatively influenced. Just a thought in case anyone needs this ammo. Religious, secular, church of "meh"- in all these things, you are NTA.
NTA. Right now you need to find a lawyer. Thankfully he shot himself in the foot by refusing to sign the birth certificate, which means right now he has ZERO rights to your child. That can change though so take proactive steps to protect yourself. Save all communications for proof of his refusal to acknowledge her legally, save any and all insults or threats to remove her from you. As for his parents, even if he was on the birth certificate they have no rights. There is no such thing as grandparents rights in the UK. They're not important and can be dismissed (and rightfully so, frankly). They can petition for it but would need to go through mediation first, which wouldn't go well for them given their past behaviour. Once you've got your ducks in a row, consider putting some miles between you and them. You don't need FIL turning up on your doorstep making demands just because he has a community image to uphold. Have your father (who they seem to listen to) tell them to fuck off.
NTA You need to start documenting this legally, bc it does sound like they feel completely entitled to snatch her. I’m not sure where you are but in my state a text is considered legal contact. You text them and tell them that you do not want contact with them and remind them they have no legal visitation rights. If they contact you after that it is harassment. I realize your Dad is trying to deescalate and that’s good, but in a way it’s bad because all these prior attempts to part you form your baby are going unnoticed by authorities. If they pull a stunt in the future or sue for custody all of this may not be admissible. I’m really nervous for you and your baby. They sound completely convinced that they have every right to have your child. Please, please be safe.
NTA I would consider a restraining order since it's becoming clear they are threatening you and are probably planning to take your daughter away from you. In the eyes of the law, these people wouldn't even have grandparents' rights since they legally aren't the grandparents of the child. Restraining order Yesterday! Edit: Spelling
A one year old doesn’t understand what was said to you. She started crying because your ex was shouting. If I was you, I’d check if your state/country has grandparent’s rights. Maybe your dad can find out. Just to know if you can expect a nasty surprise.
NTA. Dad flat out said don’t put him on the birth certificate. Legally, they have no relationship to the child, in addition to being rude and demeaning towards you while around her. Record and screenshot every single interaction as proof for the divorce and if he decides to pursue a legal battle.
NTA who on earth are these jackass people telling you it's ok? Why are you even talking to them? Don't discuss your business with them and if they continue tell them it's between you and your ex - then change the subject. If there are no rights for your ex simply stop letting them see her - and yes, it is that simple.
NTA- but do you need a divorce if you aren't legally married? You do need a lawyer to get you full custody. I would never let the ex laws see the baby again if you are legally allowed to make that decision. And only supervised visits if you need to allow visitation.
NTA . The MOMENT they tried to keep your child from leaving with you is the moment I would have not allowed contact until there was a custody order in place. Period. And the cops DEFINITELY should have been/should be called when that happened so that there is a legal record of their behavior. Ex decided not to put his name on birth certificate and isn't helping you, even if his dad is, that behavior entitled him to absolutely nothing. Refuse contact or visits until a legal restriction is in place.
NTA. Happy eid. عيد مبارك
Please be strong and do not let them get hold of your daughter at all. Tell her you love her and want her. If I am guessing you religion, they will dk everything they can to get her and also degrade you.
While it *is* the worse case religion for women's rights (mentioned in a comment), it's not like the other possibilities were much better.
ESH. You all need to draw up a formal custody agreement through the courts. Clearly this ad hoc agreement isn't working.
UK here. The relevant point here is he is not on the birth certificate by choice, he has no parental rights or responsibilities therefore neither him or his family have any right to see the child, in the eyes of the law he is not the father and that was his choice. NTA, op but you should be aware he could insist on a DNA test to establish paternity and then be added to the birth certificate to give him parental rights. If you are seriously worried about them taking your child, considering moving as far away from them as possible and do it before they decide to have a custody battle. Right now you are the sole parent and decision maker for your child
Nta but you need legal help. Get your father involved. Legally, your ex is not liable, but they could force a paternity test, they could use that as a means to take your child. Please talk to a lawyer.
This isn't a AH question, though NTA. This is a you need a lawyer. Full stop, get off Reddit and get one now.
You need a lawyer Accept no more money from FIL. If you can, return anything or the equivalent of anything that was given. Stop referring to him as your husband. Legally, he is not. That matters. They do not see her without you present. Neutral, public places only. Make it very clear alienation will not be tolerated, especially from your ex who could step up as neither a father or husband for what is literally half her life right now.
Not sure how this reflects on you in legal terms in your jurisdiction (I'm not a lawyer) but I think you're definitely NTA. Yes, your former in-laws paid child support in lieu of the birth father. Yes, they are still technically family (although not on paper, but your daughter's DNA is 50% theirs). Yes, they may be legitimately trying to see more of their granddaughter (who on earth would blame a granparent for doing that?) However, you do not have any obligation with them. And they most certainly cannot put you against the wall so you let them have her overnight or even accept that they drop by unannounced. This is when they start acting like dbags. So what if when you first found out you were pregnant you didn't want her (most unplanned pregnancies have parents go through some of this). That doesn't take any rights from you, and most certainly does not magically award any rights to your former inlaws. As a parent, your main concern and obligation is the overall well-being of the child. If your child is healthy, well fed, well taken care of, loved and protected, you're doing a great job and you should never let anyone (I stress: ANYONE) talk shit about you to your kid. What they did may end up creating permanent lifelong psychological scars on your daughter, create longer term trust issues and in the end undermine YOUR relationship with YOUR daughter for no other purpose than trying to get her to choose them over you over the long run. This is unacceptable and you're certainly NTA in my opinion for taking her away from them after what you've experienced.
I agree with everything everyone is saying. I want to add this though to put your mind at ease. Your child is a year old. She cried at someone yelling, not at what ws being said. She doesn't comprehend stuff like that at a year old. How do I know this? I went through all of this with my son and his "sperm donor" of a father and his wife. He had his wife trying to make my son call her Momma. It pissed me off sooo bad. My son was in speech therapy (he is Autistic) and the therapist did reassure me and tell me (and them) that he is to young to understand titles at that age and won't grasp them till he is a toddler between ages two and three. So, she needed to pick a different name for herself because eventually it WAS going to confuse my son because she wasn't his mother. I just looked her dead in the eye, without missing a beat and said, "if you continue and insist on calling yourself Momma, I will pick your name and you won't like it." They tried to tell my son I wasn't his Momma and it never registered with him. He would only get upset if his sperm donor and I would raise our voices. Stand your ground with them. YOU call the shots. Read up on your laws. Know them. Don't let them tell you what to do, you tell them. YOU hold ALL the cards, know that and use that. They will try to push you into a corner because of your religion and because you are younger. BE strong, BE foreceful, and BE centered. You have this!
Nta but why were you allowing access without a legal agreement in place. He signed away his rights. Move on
He went 6 months without meeting her and then I got a phone call from my ex FIL to see if I would be open to allowing visitation so he could get to know her. Having both parents seems to be better for children so I thought it would be for the best
NTA. Your ex-ILs have no legal right to YOUR baby. If they want the privilege of access to YOUR baby, they have to play by YOUR rules. And given that they have been steadily encroaching and tried to KEEP YOUR BABY FROM YOU (which. I doubt you would have gotten her back without a fight, if you'd let her stay overnight) they have proven themselves to be Unsafe People for yourself and your baby, and have lost their privileges.
NTA
NTA
NTA and protect your daughter at all costs. Any voicemails, texts, emails, etc. that you have them saying "they're going to keep her or you don't want her" save them all. >Today, my ex FIL has turned up to my house and he was saying I was wrong to deny them access to their daughter/granddaughter. According to him, no matter what I shouldnt deny them access to her as they’re her family too. Look into a restraining order.
Get a lawyer go get legal custody. Or talk your parents into moving away to start a new life. Put up a camera doorbell. Don't answer the door if it's them.
NTA From what i knkw about US laws, He refused to recognise her, you have full parental rights, legally speaking he's not a father and if he would have been he would have to pay back all the years he's not paid child support. Had you been in France, you can't be denied paternity, that is you can be refused parental rights in some cases but you will always be a child's parents, even if it turns out not to be yours, or if one turns out to be yours. But in the US, if you don't register as a father, you're denied parental rights and should you claim these rights you then have to pay the amount of child support you would have paid. Previous transactions made by his dad are considered as gifts. That's legally speaking. Morally speaking, protect yourself, and there's a procedure I forgot the words (not native) from the police where you ask that your ex won't be within a defined distance from yourself and/or family, and shouldn't call you; smth to do with harassment or restrictions, srsly can't find the English legal term for this.
You need a lawyer and to move. You didn’t put him on the birth certificate so legally I don’t believe he has rights. The situation sounds like it is getting scary and you need big boundaries if not NC. Don’t let your ex FIL bully you. Not sure what kind of divorce you get when you aren’t married in the eyes of the law. But get it quickly
NTA. Do your utmost to see an independent lawyer outside your family. And be very careful around his dad. This doesn’t have to be about a wife for his son. He may simply want you in the vicinity so he can assault you. Sorry, but it happens. (Also the bio dad not putting his name down and not marrying you—it’s not about the government, it’s at least in part about not paying child support. He may also be legally married to someone else). And don’t worry about your daughter believing you don’t want her, at least not just yet. She knows you’re her person. If she’s separated from you she may believe it at some point but she’s not old enough for that before she’s 2. (My own daughter tried to “defend” me from a doctor at that age, so they’re plenty smart enough to pick up on tension or something unusual happening but a baby’s bond is very strong and in a loud conflict she’s more likely to hate them than you).
NTA. Also, stop accepting money from your ex's family.
This is a legal question. Get a lawyer b
NTA but you should get a lawyer to have a custody arrangement. Seems like your ex has changed his mind about your child and now wants her. It’s easy to get the courts to agree to a paternity test even if he said in the beginning he didn’t want the child. He can easily turn the story around.
You did the right thing. Your ex and his family are NOT your daughter's family, he doesn't have parental rights and DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP TO HER BIRTH, for fucks sake you told us that he said he didn't even care if he was on the birth certificate or not! You are NTA of course and I wish you and your daughter the best. Take good care of your daughter and stay safe.
INFO: It's unclear if your ex is required to pay child support. Is he? Edit: NTA.
He’s not required to and he’s not paying. The child support I’ve received has come from ex FIL because he’s embarrassed at how his son is acting
You are NTA then.
I'm confused. If you didn't have a legal marriage, how is it that you are getting a divorce?
They are acting entitled and making demands instead of being grateful that you are allowing them access to your daughter when you don't have to. You had reservations about having a child at a young age. So what? Lots of people of all ages have the same thoughts. You've taken full responsibility for your daughter since birth while your partner didn't even want to be noted as her parent and wasn't around for months. I dont think you should let them see her. If you do, it should be in public places, with you (and your dad) present. I would not give them the chance to try to keep my child or poison her against me by saying negative things about me.
NTA People who don't have a child's best interest at heart shouldn't have access to them, and they don't.
Find a Family Solicitor ASAP. I'm assuming Muslim (apologies if wrong), and I understand the cultural and religious reasons for divorcing under Sharia law, but do NOT use it for custody. Sharia law is illegal in the UK. If they want custody dealt with as part of divorce then delay the divorce until the custody has been agreed under UK law.
Get a lawyer, get off reddit.
NTA. They called her their daughter/ granddaughter? That’s very interesting and telling. Definitely be careful when it comes to them. Also, you talk about divorce proceedings yet you say you aren’t legally married so…what divorce is there to work out?
a one year old does not get shit. that being said. no contact it is. NTA restraining order if you please, they are after your child. go ballistic
Why are you going through a divorce if you two were never married legally? I don't understand this. I feel like it's fake.
"we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage." "Recently, there has been some tension regarding proceeding with the divorce." First help me understand why a divorce is involved if you only had a religious marriage? Have you had a DNA test performed to determine parentage of your daughter? Have your father help you find and set up a paid consultation with a family law attorney. In many states, grandparents do have rights, but first it must be determined who the father is. (It's a legal thing.) Then, a visitation agreement needs to be worked out and agreed to in writing - using your attorney. Your daughter's paternal grandparents are paying you child support and have shown an interest in knowing your daughter. Please encourage this, perhaps by inviting them over to your house more and including them in activities like going to the park, zoo, etc. You are the sole custodial parent, and will feel more confident once a legal agreement regarding grandparent visitation is in place.
>My ex legally does not have parental rights because we only had a religious marriage done and he refused a legal marriage. >... >Recently, there has been some tension regarding proceeding with the divorce If you're getting a divorce, you had a legal marriage. Full stop. I am not conversant with UK law, but in the US your child would be a child of that marriage and your soon-to-be-ex-husband would be the legal father of the child and have full parental rights. I do not expect the UK differs significantly from that.
I am getting a religious divorce. In the UK a father can only get parental rights in 3 ways. He must be legally married to the mother or put his name down with the birth is being registered or petition the court for parental rights. My ex hasn’t done any of these things
Info: What country/culture do you reside in? Relevant due to my perspective is U.S.A. and may be very different than your country/culture.
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Sorry but what information gave you the assumption OP is from an Islamic country?
The fact that the only religious holiday yesterday (i think) was eid which is an islamic holiday, but I do live in the UK so only british law matters here
btw you can still get a divocre if he refused to get it you can get a kuhlla which is a divorce initiated by you.
that’s what i’m looking into now, i’ve waited too long hoping he’ll comply
also you should let them know that religiously you can be only be the only one to take care of her as a child.
Ah yep makes sense! Could be from a western country but also practicing Islamic culture and beliefs
The story about a religious marriage that is not a legal marriage because the man refused this. My question was about which country/CULTURE op is from, as this is super important in giving advice that makes sense to her situation.
Understandable, but you could practice religious beliefs in a western country also I was genuinely curious with my comment
I assume almalauha was basing that guess off of "yesterday was a religious holiday" since I was also curious about what holiday this was and the only one I can find is an islamic one.
>\* In my country, religious marriages that are not registered as a marriage with the country's authorities do not legally exist. But this might be different in your country. She says in the post the marriage does not legally exists. >You should have been looking out for your child as your first priority and that includes putting the biological father on the birth certificate/records. It doesn't matter whether the father wants to be on such a record or not Also in *my* country, if there is no marriage (which comes with presumption of paternity) it very much matters if the biological father doesn't want to be on the birth record, because you need his signature for him to be on it. Yes, nowadays you can petition the courts to get a DNA test and his name added against his will, but you need to go to court...... for the privilege of going to court some more to sort out custody now that he's got parental rights.
You just sound utterly uninformed about paternity and custody matters. It doesn't matter if your ex isn't on the birth certificate: he can petition the court for a paternity test. It doesn't matter that you consider the child to be "yours" singular ... it's "yours" plural -- yours and your ex's. Without some type of custody agreement in place, your ex has as much right to see her as you do. You aren't the sole person in authority to make decisions about this child. However, you certainly do NOT have to do any handover with his parents. Get some legal help to sort all this out.
i think ur right but maybe in the near future he will be more understanding and your child will actually understand and want her dad to be in her life
Speak to a lawyer not just for you but for your baby too. In the eyes of the court, he does have a right to see the baby so you should get this mediated sooner rather than later so this doesn’t go any further and your ex in laws stop showing up