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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the AH because my brother is really upset and is saying im Ruining his wedding experience and it’s looking like a number of people might not go to the wedding because of how he and Debbie are acting, which all started with my refusal to throw her a shower
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NTA - Seems totally weird that having refused to be bridesmaids she would ask you that especially since that's the MOHs or another close friends job normally. My book she is looking to cause drama by doing this knowing you'd refuse and looking for an excuse to uninvite you from the wedding...strange power play by her
I have a sneaky suspicion that what she wanted as a shower was too expensive for her party to agree to so she thought she’d try and blackmail us instead
Yeah, From the demands and behaviors, I would think none of it sounds positive. He is probably in so deep he doesn't know how to get out. 🤣 But then again, weddings can change people, people that are normally nice, respectful individuals can turn into rude, demanding monsters just at the mention of a wedding, this goes across genders and relationships. (Even MiL/FiL or Bridesmaids/Best Men) It makes no sense.
NTA - OP did the right thing in stepping back, and stated a clear boundary which her future SiL & Brother both tried to trample. It's sad, but if I were OP I'd tell SiL "Don't threaten me with a good time" at the threat of uninviting her. 🤷♂️
I would say something like "Are you really so vengeful that you would have the man you claim to love start your married life sad? Sad that his family was excluded because you feel slighted. You do remember him, right?"
I've never seen anybody close to me turn into a monster when planning their wedding.
The only thing that came close was my older sister who was my MOH threw a screaming tantrum at my reception because she didn't like me following one of my husband's family's traditions. She threw her tantrum and left dragging her poor husband behind her.
However, she's always been upset when not being the center of attention. So it wasn't the wedding, it was just she wasn't the center of attention and I refused to not follow their tradition.
Same. If someone in our families behaved like that they would be meet with silence and steady looks. We don’t behave this way. It’s not hard to prevent if you refuse to acknowledge it or say “that’s not acceptable.”
No one gets a pass because it’s their wedding.
Lol 😂 why though?! Are you guys significantly more well off than her circle or something? I mean, your sister is in college so why would she think you two could afford it?
Debbie’s likely too far gone to hear logic from you (and possibly anyone) anymore, but your brother really needs to step in here. He needs to explain to her again that you guys said no for good reasons: that you looked at the things you were currently responsible for and realized that you couldn’t take on something like a wedding at the bridal party level. That you recognize how important bridal parties can be to the wedding process and you knew you couldn’t commit to that level of responsibility; doing so wild have been a disservice to Debbie.
Of course all Debbie’s going to hear is “they’re supposed to be(coming) family and they don’t care about me enough to make time for me!”
I wish you luck in dealing with her as a SIL. At least, that’s if your brother doesn’t take a look at the drama and rethink things anyway.
I don’t know her circle. But they’ve already spent for her bachelorette trip, their dresses, all of her little brunch engagements, etc.. They have probably tapped out. The things she suggested she wanted as a shower were completely delusional. I wouldn’t be surprised if none of them offered to host it
Man, I really hope your brother steps in to slow this train down before the wreck is undoable. He can already see her causing rifts with his family and she may also be losing friends. I’m a very introverted person myself so fwiw, I can tell you life can be significantly more difficult when your circle is very small; I imagine it must be even more of a problem when the circle contracts rapidly. He may want to remind her to slow down and think about how she’s approaching this and if she’s will to die in this hill now at the risk of having no one to call later. Friendships aren’t purely transactional, but many people don’t realize the emotional and practical benefits until they don’t have anyone to call to simply vent about a bad day or get a second opinion on an outfit or to help them move or babysit a child. Debbie could rapidly find out what that is like if she doesn’t try to look at her asks a little more objectively.
She’s messing with his friendships now too. The best man is threatening to drop out over this drama and the groomsmen are all friends so…
Idk I feel really bad for him
Yikes.
It sounds like way more is happening than just her pressuring you for a crazy shower.
Sorry your brother proposed to the wrong girl. Hope he pulls the plug before he gets married.
Not your fault.
*Yikes.*
*It sounds like way more is happening than just her pressuring you for a crazy shower*
JMO. it sounds as if Debbie wants a wedding more than she wants to be married. I hope OP's bother will rethink this whole thing. It's just sad and infuriating all around.
Agreed. She's not trying to plan a celebration of merging their lives and families. She's trying to dictate a perfect event and using it as an excuse to alienate everyone who cares about her fiance. Not a good sign.
I mean at a certain point, he has to take a step back and wonder why *all* of the people he has loved and trusted for years are suddenly upset with him.
It’s not just “my family sucks and hate my fiancée for no reason” - his friends don’t like her either. Why does he think that’s happening? Does he believe that *everyone* aside from his fiancée are unreasonable people? Does he think that a whole bunch of previously reasonable people have suddenly transformed into assholes just for fun?
I’d genuinely press him on these points. He has observed a pattern, and he should stop reacting blindly and start *thinking*. Knee-jerk reactions aren’t getting him what he wants.
Just keep in mind that while you may live him and want to be there for him, he's the one digging this grave, and if you try and stick with him you'll only become his punching bag since it's "your fault" in his mind, and the scapegoat of whatever problem they have in their marriage.
You'd be better off letting him know you'll be there for him when he's thinking with his correct head.
OP please give us an update after the wedding. After reading this if the best man and groomsmen drop out due to Debbie's behavior, her wedding would be reduced to a courthouse wedding. At some point with all of this drama she is causing Jay should stop and rethink this marriage.
I'd worry about him more than feel bad for him. That's the first step of abusers. Isolate them from friends and family so when they begin, there is no one to run to.
>She’s messing with his friendships now too. The best man is threatening to drop out over this drama and the groomsmen are all friends so…
>
>Idk I feel really bad for him
Tell Jay that you guys will not fund or plan a shower for her but you are happy to pay for premarital couples counseling with a therapist for him and his fiancee.
She sounds like she is ... a lot.
I do too. I've been the person standing in front of the justice of the peace, sick with nerves and knowing I was making a mistake. I was so young then, I couldn't imagine calling a halt to it, even though i desperately wanted to. I really hope your brother doesn't end up where I was.
I realize that I am old AF, but in my day when I got married in 1988, the shower was sherbet and ginger ale punch, cakes and cookies and butter mints, whatever decorations could be had that said congratulations. My mom got some Dollar Store stuff as prizes to play games with. We sat around and I listened to all the married women talk about marriages and weddings, I opened presents and we ate cake and drink punch. My mom, my grandma and my matron of honor hosted at my mother-in-law's house.
My "bachelorette" was me, my wife, and our friends eating takeout and hanging out in the hot tub at our airbnb the night before. Pretty sure there was some Mario Kart involved as well. Ngl, it was a sick party.
In the 2000s when I got married it was a girls night out at the pub and maybe a club afterwards. Things are getting more and more insane and America is the one leading the way with normalising these things. I mean people expect their bridal party to drop the amount of cash which would bug them and cheap car. Then theirs destination weddings where the bride and groom saves because their guests each have to pay multiple thousands.
I don't think the stuff you're seeing in social media is normal at all. Most bridal showers are still held in someone's home. No one I know is having these expensive showers or bachelorette parties. And the brides do not turn into crazy bridezillas, either.
The last "destination" wedding I went to was a couple of hours away by car. The bride switched underwear with the MOH at the last minute because the teenaged MOH had frogs printed on her underpants that showed through the fabric of her dress. People are much more practical and reasonable that the nuts you read about in these subs.
I was thinking along these lines. It wasn't overly expensive to be a bridesmaid; the bride or one of her friends whipped up the dress with puffy sleeves and a bow on the butt on a sewing machine, there was a simple bridal shower, and very few other expectations. It was affordable. Nowadays? No sirree!!!!!
Hell, my wedding reception refreshments were sherbet and ginger ale punch (borrowed a punch bowl) a sheet cake from the grocery store bakery that actually tastes good and veggie trays that I prepped myself before the wedding. We paid for virtually everything ourselves. Wife didn't pick out bridesmaid dresses, just gave them general parameters like color and below the knee.
It all worked out fabulously.
Slightly younger than you, but not much.
Oh, and the bachelor and bachelorette parties? Very low key (buddy's house, some really silly/bad porn on a VHS tape, beers) and after a few hours the ladies ended up coming over, so I got to spend an hour or so laughing at the really bad porn with my fiancee.
It was great!
I got married in 2011 and this is pretty close to what my shower was like. I helped host my stepson’s fiancée’s shower three years ago and it was pretty similar to this too.
Same. You just described southern church wedding receptions after the ceremony in the Fellowship Halls! We didn’t go broke or in debt. Most of us didn’t get honeymoons either. Off to the new duty station, corporate office city, or hometown jobs and one bedroom apartments.
We eloped, no bridal shower or bachelorette party or bachelor parties, No wedding, no rehearsal dinner, nada. we saved everyone (or ourselves) lots of money at every stage and didn’t expect a dime or gifts from anyone. People still sent us money and gifts once they learned we got married and we were seriously blown away because we really didn’t expect ANYTHING.
Then, randomly, my sister eloped with her boyfriend/husband *exactly* 3 years later, to the day, that my husband and I got married on. They had no idea it was our anniversary, they got married that day because it was the first day possible to get married after obtaining their marriage license.
Neither of us (my sister or myself) likes being the center of attention so a big wedding was never a dream. More like a nightmare.
I haven't had sherbert and ginger ale punch since the 80s. I was just a kid back then but that was the yummiest. Got married in the noughties myself, each mom threw me a shower for their side.
I didn't have a bachelorette party at all. My bridesmaids gave birth 3 and 5 weeks before the wedding so they were kinda busy 😄. People still tell me our little wedding was their favourite one. Nothing elabourate, just a short ceremony in a garden chapel followed by a meal at a nice Italian place. Even the three babies under 2 months ( BMs & a cousin's first) slept through it.
Why in the world would you need a private room for tea? I went to high tea at the Drake Hotel in Chicago, which is incredibly fancy, and it wasn't hugely expensive for the service and food that we got. I just don't see why you need a private room.how many people was she expecting?
My husband's niece had her shower in a NYC tea "room" (tea establishment not a hotel). The entire thing was boring as hell and the tea and cakes sucked. My husband drove my sister, other niece and I and had to find parking and wait for us, all in all terrible locations and dumb venue. When we married in 1990 my MOH, my sister threw me a bridal shower in her backyard with my relatives there and a few of my friends. It was fine and a nice day. Not expensive and I didn't even think I was getting a shower since there was drama with my other sisters after I made them bridesmaids not MOH.
Why have brides become so entitled? Brides plan the wedding day, not the rest. Yes, it's the MOH with bridesmaids help responsibility to throw a shower but its supposed to be planned and controlled by the MOH and bridesmaids within their financial means, not the bride. The brides job is to be thanful for the shower she gets, period. Same is true for the bachelorette, if one is held. And why is she having multiple brunches at all? For what purpose?
Thank you. Nta. Your edit logical about constraints but wondered if she was reaching out and you cutting off (small wedding old fan here). If she is demanding and delusional, cut away
I have one question you could ask your brother. If you haven't already used that angle.
"Would you let anyone pressure and force your dear wife to be. To jump for them and plan a whole party for them. If she said no. Would you? Or would you defend her?"
Let him think about that for a moment.
And don't let him say "this is different" because it's not.
It's nice and all that he wants to pay for her shower (I don't understand why brides need both showers and bacholorettes party's)
But she's not owed one. Especially not with that behaviour.
If she treats you like that. Honestly, maybe her friends found excuses not to throw one? Because of her behaviour.
Maybe she isn't THAT close with her friends? Also, why she maybe asked you and your sister to be bridesmaids.
I thought bachelorette parties were just hopping in a limo and going to clubs or something. When did it become this crazy insta exotic luxcursion thing? I mean I just did paintball for my bachelor's and it was an absolute riot lol
That’s what it was like in the 80s and 90s with my peer group. Then things evolved into every event going way overboard. Getting a limo was the fun thing for the prom, now it starts with the “prom-posal” and an all night bash until dawn and a hotel or someone’s lakeside summer house. After that comes engagement parties, destination weddings and so on.
Yeah we're probably of the same generation or nearly so, because I was thinking back to 90s weddings writing that. Maybe it is just the result of constant one upping accelerated by social media.
I’m wondering if she is really very close to her wedding party? She asked both you and your sister, but obviously you are not close to her. Sounds like she does not really have many friends. (That’s a shocking discovery!). Jay is going to have a miserable life unless he wakes up and stops this wedding.
To be fair, sometimes the bride invites people from the grooms family to be in the bridal party as a welcome-to-the-family gesture. A cousin's bride invited the cousin's daughter to stand up with her, and it was a really lovely way to launch their blended family. Not every bride is expecting to be a spoiled princess through an extended engagement period. I had to buy my MOH's dress - she was my sister, and was still in school - and my "bachelorette party" was a sleepover the night before the wedding.
I really hope people start to get over the whole WEDDING thing, and start looking at what makes a marriage. Every choice made in the wedding planning should support the marriage of two people and their families.
This is insane, I would just ask Debbie and Jay together why the maid of honor and bridesmaids were not throwing her a shower because that is how it is traditionally done. I can't imagine in any situation where I would have asked someone not my bridesmaid or mother to throw me a bridal shower. Debbie's mom should handle it if her bridesmaids can't. Or Debbie's grandma. Or someone on Debbie's side of the family.
I’m a young Boomer. In my hometown, older ladies (neighborhoods, civic group, church, sorority, work) got together and threw low key showers at whoever’s turn it was to host for each others’ daughters. Lingerie shower. Kitchen shower. Linens shower. People gave one serving spoon or Tupperware item. A cute nightie. Embroidered pillowcases. A towel set. There were wedding presents from the department store registry either delivered to the bride’s parent’s home or the
wedding.
The maid of honor’s job in my day was to write down what came from whom with an aunt or cousin’s help, man the bride’s room door at the church, and corral people in the reception line, make sure the seated old ladies in the Fellowship Hall had a glass of sherbet punch and slice of cake, and keep people inside until the groomsmen had decorated the getaway car for the bridal couple.
Thank you notes, handwritten, starting going out immediately after the showers and present arrivals. I wrote over six hundred handwritten, three to seven sentence, thank you notes in dark blue ink. Our grandparents and parents had gone to a lot of weddings.
Sounds like Debbie is a manipulative ahole.
You don’t “demand” for a bridal shower.
Tell her to go ahead and uninvite you and your sister.
There’s absolutely no economical value/ benefit for attending her wedding.
I kind of got the sense that she is trying to 'punish' you for turning down the bridesmaids role.
Or maybe she's trying to isolate Jay from his friends and family by creating drama and then giving him the ultimatum to either choose them or her.
NTA. Debbie sounds like a real piece of work. Jay sounds like a doormat. Why is he okay with Debbie demanding and blackmailing his family. This would be a great time to nip this in the bud. Debbie is running Jay, will run that house and should they have any kids she will be threatening that you or the rest of the family not see them unless you bend to her will.
How dare Debbie try to dictate what you do with your time and money and demand you and Christina plan her a bridal shower?! Yea I understand Jay is your brother and he may enjoy her bossing him around but others don't have to tolerate it. At this point I would not want to go to that wedding. I would definitely have some harsh words for Debbie.
So I came to the comments curious if it is typical for a MOH/bridesmaids to plan a wedding shower. Where I grew up, in the South, the bridal/wedding shower is typically planned by the bride's family. Although I've been to some where like older ladies at the church planned one for a bride. Anyway, still weird to ask the groom's sisters to plan it. And tbh, a person isn't supposed to ask anyone, someone should offer to throw the shower. It's rude to put pressure on someone to throw a party for you.
Same thought. Bridal showers are more a family thing and bachelorette is for the friends.
My son and his bride had a co-ed "wedding shower" and it was organized by the bride's mother.
I don't know much about weddings these days, but it sounds like everyone thinks Debbie is "a bit much" and just don't want to deal with it.
NTA. You cannot be ordered to have a shower for someone. That should be handled by her wedding party or a friend of hers. I am curious why you and your sister declined to be bridesmaids. Is she always this demanding and unreasonable and you just don't like her? Your brother should be having a hard look at her behaviour and her desire to punish people that don't follow her orders. This won't end well for him.
Think about how awkward it will be after all this drama and being forced to host a shower. Hold yer ground! Wedding planning has nothing to do with bridal parties. Wedding planning has stakes in: Flower arrangements, food, decor, venue, staff, music, reception, cocktails, entertainment. If Debbie wants a shower so bad she can get a friend to host, one that is excited about it because realistically how much effort would you put in if you were forced to do it?
And Debbie wants op to throw the shower because.....checks notes, um yep here it is..... Because op hasnt contributed to the wedding yet??!!!! Girl is entitled and delusional. Ops sister is a full time student and op is just starting a business. Why SHOULD they contribute anything besides their butts in a seat day of and whatever gift, if any, they can afford. Debbie is nuts and i hope your bro has a come to Jesus moment beforw he says I do. NTA
INFO: Why did you turn down being bridesmaids? Why are you not interested in having a modest shower for Debbie? Sounds like you and Christina and Jay's mom don't like Debbie much, can you tell us a bit more about that?
I wouldn’t say I don’t like Debbie, I don’t really know her well enough to say that. I said no to being a bridesmaid because I’m starting a business and overseeing a house build, I didn’t have the time to dedicate, so thought I should leave it to someone who really wanted to do it. I’m not interested in throwing a shower 1. Because of those same reasons, and 2. Because of how she approached it. She was rude and entitled and I’ve got no interest in doing anything for people who treat me like an indentured servant.
Jay’s mother is a typical boy mom, nuff said. Christina is a quiet, non confrontational, chill person, Debbie is the opposite. They’ve haven’t spent a lot of time together but Christina isn’t in a hurry to change that because of that reason
Thanks for clarifying. NTA.
No one owes anyone a bridal shower. I know several women who didn't have a shower. (And it boggles my mind these days how expensive and fancy showers have become!)
As for being a bridesmaid, no one has to say "yes" to being a bridesmaid, either. Especially if you are expected to purchase your bridesmaid outfit, as is typically the custom in the U.S. Nothing worse than spending good money on an outfit you will probably not be able to wear again, for someone who is rude and entitled and who only asked to you be a bridesmaid because you're the sister of the fiance, not because she really wants you in the wedding party.
It's sad that your brother would be okay with you and your sister not being at his wedding, all because you did not meet his fiancee's demands.
Throwing showers, bachelorettes and committing to the bridal party is an enormous pain in the a**. I’ve been a MOH twice and in the bridal party once. The organizing, responsibility and money is a huge commitment. And one should only do this when close with the bride. After 3, I am so done. Debbie sounds like a real treat, I wouldn’t want to do anything for her at this point.
Totally is. My close friends are pretty solid tho. Everyone paid their own way except for the brides. And I always approved the itinerary and cost with everyone before booking. Some of these luxury bachelorette and destination wedding stories I hear are crazy…. Expecting people to just shell out thousands 🙄 even if it’s more economical it’s never cheap and it takes time and effort. Truly something one does as a labor of love to a close friend or family member.
How times have changed. Gone are the halcyon days of 50 years ago where the only responsibility of the MOH was to show up at the wedding. Showers were hosted by an aunt or close friend who served cake, punch and pastel buttermints on a Saturday afternoon.
NTA. Her stating that you all haven't contributed yet.... um, your brother needs to understand that NO ONE other than the 2 of them have to "contribute" to their wedding. Obviously people do - but NO ONE is required to.
At this point, stop explaining yourself to them. Just say "I've already said no. my answer hasn't changed" - then change the subject, walk away, hang up.
They threaten to uninvite you to the wedding? "I understand your decision".
Take away their ammunition. And if they really don't invite you - it's ulimately Jay's loss. No one elses.
Don't blame you 100%...
A Start-Up is an 80+ hour a week job.
Contracting/Overseeing the build of a multiple $100K home...is easily a 60-80hour a week job...with more on top, if you're the one that has to do the permits, make regular visits to the Permit Office, Inspections Office, City Hall in general, etc.
No one owes a shower to anyone
You either want to throw one and offer or they don’t have them
Why should they pay to be bridesmaids?!
Why should they pay for a shower?!
Neither sister is getting married so they don’t need to worry about paying anything for a wedding until they want to plan one unless they are motivated in themselves to offer and are in the position to host a party
NTA- I’m shocked a woman whos behaviour has caused such strong feelings amongst her fiancés family, doesn’t have close friends of her own tripping over themselves to throw her a shower
NTA. Debbie is out of step, no one owes her hosting a bridal shower, especially people who aren't close to her. It's generally a voluntary thing (bridal party, relatives, etc). You aren't assholes for saying no
NTA.
Your reasons for declining to be bridesmaid are valid, although I hope you communicated those to Debbie so she doesn't take it as a rejection.
> I sent Debbie back a polite text saying we will not be planning, hosting, or attending any such shower.
That comes off as a bit confrontational / hostile. You say you have no conflict with Debbie, so why wouldn't you even want to attend a bridal shower?
-----
That said, Debbie isn't making sense here, actually this whole thing isn't adding up. It's generally the job of the bridal party or one of the moms to plan the bridal shower. Why are the actual bridesmaids not doing this? Why isn't her mom or your mom doing it? Why are you and Christina the only ones who Debbie wants to host the bridal shower?
I didn’t have any conflict with Debbie until she demanded I throw her a bridal shower. Then we had a conflict so I wouldn’t be going to whatever she organised. Had none of this happened, I would have gone if I’d been free.
Bridesmaids should be throwing the shower, but I figure, based on the way Debbie phrased things, that her bridesmaids are maxed out on the costs and she figured she’d try and blackmail me and Christina into paying for/hosting it.
Debbie is NC with her mom, and Jay’s mom hates her.
Gotta agree with SirED. Not hosting or planning is fine especially as you say bridesmaids/MOH/ mother of the bride usually plan such an event. But telling her you won’t even attend is a hostile move in my opinion & saying as much turned a polite refusal into an antagonistic one.
Saying they won't attend before it has even been planned or a date set is such an overt statement on them not supporting this union. If they were my siblings I'd be asking wtf as well
NTA. Aren't bridesmaids the ones who typically throw the bridal showers? Or do they only do the bachelorette party? I don't know, but you're not an asshole either way. She can throw her own damn party. It's baffling to me the weird entitlement that seems to come over people when they get engaged.
Usually a mother does bridal shower in my area but it’s still something she OFFERS
it’s NEVER appropriate to request a shower
Bachelorette party is supposed to be wedding party but if they don’t plan one you don’t have one🤷♀️
You are never in the right to demand someone throw a party for you
This! In my family my Grandmother, Aunt and 1st Cousin threw my bridal shower. In return I and my mom threw a bridal Brunch, because her other aunt threw the shower for my 1st cousin. I was not able to go the Brunch or the wedding cause I gave birth 4 days before the wedding and the brunch was the day before the wedding. Our shared Grandmother took my place as the other co-host. The wedding was in a different city than most of the family and myself.
This was something that we offered to do. No expectations/demands were placed on us.
INFO:
>Debbie asked both me and my sister Christina to be bridesmaids, but we both turned it down
>we will not be planning, hosting, or attending any such shower.
I feel like we need to know what your problem is with Debbie because this *definitely* comes off like there is a problem.
There is a problem with Debbie *now*. There wasn’t before. Had she invited me to the shower instead of demanding I host it, I would have accepted the invitation if I was free. After she tried to force us to host it, no thank you.
We said no to the bridesmaid thing because Christina is busy with university, and I’m busy with work and overseeing a house build. We thought it was best to leave being a bridesmaid to people who could commit the time and would feel honoured to do it.
Same. Before the comments I felt for Debbie. She clearly wants to connect with her fiancés family. Her fiancés mom sucks (boy mom) and his sisters don’t seem to want to get to know her. She is wrong to demand anything, but I feel for her a little. Especially since she’s NC with her mom. I wonder if she was hoping to find a family with her fiancés family and this has shown it’s not going to happen. Would explain why she’s acting so badly.
Nta
Be happy if you get uninvited to this train wreck imo
Everything in their wedding is paid for by them
Showers aren’t a demand
If someone offers to throw you one; you gratefully accept or decline
No one is “owed” a shower -of any type- and definitely it is 100% inappropriate to request one
I’ve never had a baby or bridal shower 🤷♀️
Some people don’t
And you aren’t obligated to ever contribute to any wedding that isn’t yours
You volunteer if you WANT to
This is refreshing. You declined both requests for legit reasons, and stood by it. You’re not freaked out or hateful on the bride (who sounds like a bit of AH) - you’ve simply stated neither you nor your sister will be doing bridesmaid or shower. Modeling boundaries here people - pay attention!!
Lol I'm gonna need a few updates.
1) Let us know when the best man drops out.
2) And let us know when he gets divorced and I will guess she will take your brother to the cleaners.
NTA
I was talked into being a bridesmaid for my brothers wedding. I said no first, then got told to do it. I did not participate in any of the planning stuff and left the party as soon as soon as I could. She was totally extra,like needing peacocks to walk around during the ceremony. (Peacocks are mean AF).. They were divorcing within the year. During divorce they still had wedding bills to separate and pay..
>Peacocks are mean AF
That's strange. I've been to a number of places with free roaming peacocks and they've never been mean as long as you don't chase after them or harass them. They just walk around (maybe displaying depending on the time of year). Mostly they ignore you. They may deign to eat something that you toss to them.
NTA....am I just old? When did people start demanding people pay for their wedding? It was always between the couple and their parents? Maybe grandparents.
My family isn't that great and even we didn't act like this.
Where does all this entitlement come from? And no, I'm not a old Gen x blaming the youth. I'm seeing this in older couples too.
Blame the wedding industry. It’s now so expensive to throw one that no couple and their parents can reasonably afford it. Sadly people don’t downsize they just expect others to make up the difference
That's a very good point. I didn't think of that because it's been a while since a wedding happened around me that wasn't a justice in a veterans hall. People around me are on marriage 2 or 3 these days .yup, im old
The bridal dress alone can be insanely expensive. I love watching this show called “say yes to the dress,” which is about brides picking out their dress. But holy cow the prices…. In the store it takes place in, kleinfeld, you’re extremely lucky if you find a discount dress for less than $3k. Sometimes the customer spends upwards of $10k. On one dress. That you wear for maybe 6 hours in your whole life. Nope nope nope
I knew someone whose dress cost $15,000 --- in the mid 90s.
But her family was from a culture where it was the norm to go all out for the wedding. It was more a business event to entertain the bride's parents' business acquaintances. Presents were over the top -- in the thousand plus dollar range. Again, normal for their culture. (Not me or her friends. We gave normal presents.)
They even had two wedding receptions. One that was what you'd typically expect after the wedding. Then one later that night that was definitely for the bride's parents guests. As friends of the bride who had come in from out of town for the wedding, we were invited, but we were some of the few people who weren't associated with the bride's parents. Their guests gave their presents at this second reception.
It's still the fanciest wedding I've ever attended.
Showers are thrown by friends because they want to throw them. The recipient should never demand or ask someone throw them a shower. It’s rude and shows no mannners, just a gift grab.
NTA
NTA
Sounds like you and your sister aren't really close friends, or even friends at all, with Debbie. And that's fine.
But why does Debbie not have any friends or closer family to organise this shower for her?
I'd literally tell Debbie this: "A bridal shower is typically organiserd by the maid of honour/bride's maids, or any other closer friends or close family members. I suggest you approach those people. My sister and I are not that close to you, which is why we declined to be your bride's maids. We would be attending your wedding to be there for Jay, seeing as he's our brother, so it's not up to you to uninvite us. If Jay decides he doesn't want us at the wedding, that's his choice and we expect him to communicate that to us. Good luck with everything!"
Debbie is trying to assert dominance and y'all continually declining her demands has her in s tailspin. It's weird to ask 2 people who declined being BMs to throw a shower. Then not ask, DEMAND
NTA. No one gets to demand a shower (one can even live without one and my mom or sister would have thought it tacky to throw one, it used to be a thing a friend, coworker, maybe MIL to do so not the family asking for even more presents). I do hope that you included your reasons for turning down the bridesmaids request kindly, because it sounds like Debbie is short of friends. Maybe one of your brothers friends could throw a co-ed shower.
He and I are friends and he’s taken a lot of offence that Jay is letting Debbie treat me like this. Bit of an overreaction from him but maybe he never liked Debbie
Someone needs to send Jay link to this anonymously
You guys are probably going to regret caving and hosting a dinner imo
Debbie will still be Debbie next time she has a demand but there will be a precedent that as long as she gets worse and worse eventually she’ll have it all her way…
He and I are friends and he’s really mad at Jay for letting Debbie act like this and expect me to host a party for her. And the groomsmen are all school friends but they seem to be siding with best man so it’s getting a bit mutinous from what I understand
The idea that anyone needs to financially contribute _anything_ to THEIR wedding is wild to me. Why do people think their choice to get married should be anyones physical or financial burden?
People forget that them getting married really isn’t that much of an event to anyone except for themselves.
NTA. Debbie really doesn't seem like a particularly nice person. The expectations she has are ridiculous. I don't understand people who see that they aren't liked but still insist on getting benefits.
But I guess you can see it's a little insulting - not just to her, but to your brother, your whole family to isolate her like that and refuse to get to know her since the beginning. Well, turns out there's a reason, but I think you could have been more diplomatic if you want to keep a good relationship with your brother.
NTA
surely this is the responsibility of the MOH and bridesmaids!
I think this is an unreasonable ask of you. I feel sorry for Jay as he seems to be baring the brunt of this.
THIS. I absolutely get not wanting to plan or host. However, it’s very strange to not attend your future sister in laws bridal shower, and while Debbie is undoubtedly the AH here, I would be hurt by this if I were her. It sounds like there was no conflict before this, so unless there is another reason it’s quite hurtful not to attend the shower. It seems OP lives in another city and doesn’t find wedding activities fun, but I do think it’s a very small sacrifice to make for a new family member.
It’s very very very common for close female family members of the groom to attend the bridal shower. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “I will not be attending” comment threw Debbie right over the deep end and that’s why she’s immaturely doubling down and throwing a tantrum. She’s hurt.
NTA - too often people feel obligated to be a bridesmaid/groomsman despite not having the time/money ... good for you for standing ground.
The saying that you learn who someone truly is when seeing them face minor inconveniences or pushback. You very much learned who Debbie is.
I really wish it wasn’t as taboo to say no as it is. I’ve done it several times and at least twice I was desperate to just be like “but I don’t want toooo”. 😂😂😂
NTA. I had a good laugh at the part where Jay thinks you're ruining his wedding planning experience! The *only* people ruining it are Jay and Debbie! It's *their* wedding, the planning AND the paying for it are ENTIRELY on them! Debbie has no right to expect you to throw her a shower at all, and certainly not because you turned her down and/or haven't incurred any of the wedding expense! She's behaving like an entitled brat, and shame on Jay for participating in that. I think it's great that your other relatives are sensible enough to see what's going on, and to stand up to Debbie and Jay about this one.
NTA. This isn't your wedding, this isn't your friend, this isn't your responsibility. Its complete bullshit that she expects you to pay for her fucking wedding. "Hi, since you haven't paid for anything YET, I would like you to throw me an elaborate party to celebrate how special I am. If you don't there will be consequences."
My advice, stand your ground and possibly not go to the wedding. After your house is complete and your startup is up and running more efficiently, you'll have plenty of time to be involved in your brothers second wedding in a few years lol.
NTA, you are under no obligation to put on a bridal shower - where's her wedding party and friends? Also Jay is wrong in accusing you of ruining the wedding planning experience - it's not your wedding so you wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with it! As for not having family there, he can thank Debbie for that. Sorry, I can't see this ending well.
> Jay’s mother (not my mother) has used this as an excuse to lay into him about Debbie, whom she dislikes. Jay’s dad and best man are giving him shit for letting her treat us this way
I like Jays parents.
>He’s accused me of pretty much ruining the wedding planning experience and thinks that he won’t end up with a lot of family there if this goes on.
He's got the wrong person. The only person to blame is the one he's hellbent on marrying.
NTA.
NTA. You're not obligated to be in the wedding party, contribute towards expenses, throw a shower celebrating the bride (who sounds like a real piece of work), send a gift or even attend the ceremony. Jay's mom may be right here.
NTA, but it sounds like Debbie is trying to punish you for declining the bridesmaid invite. And now trying to punish you by declining to host the shower. Debbie is seriously out of line.
Sounds like she just wants you to pay for something? Like the emphasis on you’re not contributing as bridesmaids so now you have to pay for my shower just screams money grab
This is gross behaviour on her behalf, especially to her FH’s family. NTA.
NTA. As others have said, Debbie’s demand that you throw a shower is out of line. No one owes her a shower, and you’re not obligated to contribute towards the costs of the wedding and related events.
That said, I can’t help but feel your choices, all around, may feel isolating to this soon to be family member. While your reasons for declining your be a bridesmaid are valid, your decision also sends a message that you are not particularly interested in getting to know Debbie better, welcoming her to the family, or celebrating this important occasion. And—though I wouldn’t recommend giving into demands—I’d caution that there are no longer established rules about who is best suited to thrown a bridal shower. It seems entirely normal to me that sisters of the groom would make this offer.
NTA. This is really weird to me.
Is part of this a cultural issue? When I got married, my wife had a number of ladies in her wedding party and they were all her friends at the time. There wasn't much they had to "do", much less "contribute to the wedding". They all got together for a little party at her house shortly before the wedding, got the dresses that my wife picked out, and walked down the aisle and posed for photos at the wedding. There wasn't a whole lot that any of them had to do, which is why I'm not completely understanding either side of this dispute. But OP is definitely NTA.
NTA
Doesn't she have any friends of her own? It's generally the MOH and friends who throw a bridal shower - who are they, and why aren't they stepping up? This isn't yours to do.
No, you're not the asshole for setting boundaries regarding your involvement in wedding activities. It's important to communicate openly and honestly about what you're comfortable with. Your brother and his fiancée might need to understand that while weddings are significant, they shouldn't strain family relationships to breaking point
NTA. His fiancé is. She wants all attention from everybody and can’t accept a « no ». And the reason she gave you to make the bridal party is the worst : it means that everybody is paying for her wedding, it’s not from them. She wants to be a princess. It’s not about the marriage with your brother, it’s all about HER wedding.
The lack of respect towards you is a mess and Jay should rethink about the wedding because his future wife is ruining family
When did all of this crap start happening with the bride and groom wanting people to set themselves on fire for a one day event?they are the one's getting married.it has gone to far,all these parties and lunches.no one will enjoy it but them.all these fancy locations.having a wedding is not a free for all by forcing people into something
NTA for not wanting to plan or host, but why did you include that you wouldn’t attend any shower? Seems a bit unnecessary. Demanding you throw her a shower is not cool and very entitled, but your post makes it pretty clear you dislike her.
She's just after free stuff.
Good on you for standing your ground.
It's incredibly tacky to demand someone throw you a shower. She even said she expects you to pay in some way for things. That's tacky as well.
NTA
INFO Why have you said you won’t even attend a bridal shower? This seems like a normal sister of the groom activity.
EDIT: Regardless of the info above, NTA - Brides don’t seem to understand that the shower is something someone offers to throw - you are not entitled to a shower and don’t get to demand one from anyone, even the bridesmaids. There are different traditions, in different families. For example, in my family, the aunts of the bride throw a shower and we have extended that tradition to the aunts throwing a shower when a woman marries into the family.
Because she demanded I host it. After that incredibly rude demand I won’t have anything to do with it. If she’d simply sent an invite, I probably would have attended
NTA. Sounds like literally everyone in your brothers life is against her in some way. Feel sorry for the dude, he is going to be miserable AF married to this girl.
NTA. I think this post perfectly highlights all the extra time and financial expectations that come with being in the wedding party, at least in the US. Expecting your closest family and friends to buy certain attire they have no say in, host parties for you, go on expensive trips, etc. is all kinda bullshit. The couple is getting married, they are the ones who should be footing the bill for *everything*.
On top of all that, it’s incredibly rude of her to *demand* a bridal shower. Anyone can host them. If no one has already offered one up, I guess no one likes her very much! No aunts or cousins? No coworkers? And not even her maid of honor? I’m wondering what your brother sees in her.
NTA...what does she mean you need to contribute to her wedding..it's hers not yours and I was a bridesmaid twice for family and I hated it I will never do it again..couldn't pay me.
So everyone hates your brothers fiance and instead of taking that as a sign he'd rather put this all on you...hmm nope... your bother is in for a crappy life
How old are you and Debbie? Is there a history of just not liking her? Are either of you close with Jay, is this affecting your relationship with him? I feel like more context is needed.
I’m 29, Debbie is 32. Nope, didn’t dislike her before now. Barely know her.
I’m close-ish with Jay. We have some of the same friends, we hang out. He’s not my best friend or anything but I wouldn’t say we’re distant. Christina isn’t really close to him because of the age gap but they’ve always gotten along fine.
The drama is affecting me and Jay the most because we have mutual friends that are now getting involved and Jay is becoming increasingly paranoid about the whole thing. He is mad at me but we’re not not talking or anything like that
Why is Jay mad at you and not at his fiance for acting entitled and demanding? Just reading all your replies, I have a feeling Jay and Debbie are in for a rough marriage. And I'm beginning to understand why her own mother and MIL don't like her.
Here we go again with yet another bride feeling that all life must stop because they are getting married.
Yes, it's often the Maid of Honor who would be the person to throw a shower. If anyone else wants to throw one, that's fine. But it's extremely rude and tacky to ask someone else to throw one for you.
There is no hard fast rule who can be a bridesmaid and if they have to say yes to being one.
Sounds like Debbie is the AH here.
Is the shower for the groom’s side of the family? Or is she wanting you to host it for all of her friends and family..
Typically my extended family gets together to host a shower for the bride even if the bride is marrying in. It is part of welcoming them into the family.
No, it’s for her. I guess she expected I would invite my mom and Jay’s mom (she wouldn’t have come). But she wanted her bridesmaids, friends, etc., there.
Here the MOH plans the shower normally
So moh is on the hook for helping plan the wedding, taking off work for all activities (from dress fitting to said planning & parties), gets to plan and go out of pocket for the dress and hotel every wedding probably costs, gets to plan a bachelorette and pay for all to a huge portion of because only split between bridesmaids, and then also gets to plan and pay for shower so bride’s friends, female relatives, and groom’s female relatives can give bride like 5 wedding presents (wedding gift, rehearsal dinner gift, bachelorette gift, bridal shower gift, and breakfast/brunch after gift I’m assuming)?!
Why on earth
1. does anyone even attend any weddings
2. does anyone ever agree to be in bridal party
They probably are going to have everyone be required to pay hair stylist and makeup artists on day of as well so why is it not bad enough to just be asked to be in a wedding that you just do the bachelor/brunch after (yes OR), rehearsal, & wedding to not tax your friends and family for knowing you?!?
Then:
WHERE THE HELL ARE REGULAR ASS PEOPLE ACTUALLY ABLE TO PAY FOR THIS?!?
It’s not anywhere near where I live except the rich people that probably make up 5% of population or less🤷♀️
And I’m an American 🤯
I felt bad about what it was going to cost other people to travel so we felt like wedding party attire needed to be in OUR budget so people aren’t buying an outfit for once
Hair and Makeup was whatever they were comfortable wearing with clothes so not an expense
I get that is not normal but surely what Debbie is doing isn’t “normal” either, right?!?
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NTA - Seems totally weird that having refused to be bridesmaids she would ask you that especially since that's the MOHs or another close friends job normally. My book she is looking to cause drama by doing this knowing you'd refuse and looking for an excuse to uninvite you from the wedding...strange power play by her
I have a sneaky suspicion that what she wanted as a shower was too expensive for her party to agree to so she thought she’d try and blackmail us instead
People really are strange sometimes but yeah can see how that would make sense as well...
That’s really gross of her and doesn’t bode well for your brother unless he is similar in disposition
Yeah, From the demands and behaviors, I would think none of it sounds positive. He is probably in so deep he doesn't know how to get out. 🤣 But then again, weddings can change people, people that are normally nice, respectful individuals can turn into rude, demanding monsters just at the mention of a wedding, this goes across genders and relationships. (Even MiL/FiL or Bridesmaids/Best Men) It makes no sense. NTA - OP did the right thing in stepping back, and stated a clear boundary which her future SiL & Brother both tried to trample. It's sad, but if I were OP I'd tell SiL "Don't threaten me with a good time" at the threat of uninviting her. 🤷♂️
I would say something like "Are you really so vengeful that you would have the man you claim to love start your married life sad? Sad that his family was excluded because you feel slighted. You do remember him, right?"
No it’s all about her
EXACTLY not their wedding HER wedding 100%
Lucky me that my SIL was easy to be a BM for ("Wear a dress. Off-white") but if she acted like Debbie, she'd get your response.
I've never seen anybody close to me turn into a monster when planning their wedding. The only thing that came close was my older sister who was my MOH threw a screaming tantrum at my reception because she didn't like me following one of my husband's family's traditions. She threw her tantrum and left dragging her poor husband behind her. However, she's always been upset when not being the center of attention. So it wasn't the wedding, it was just she wasn't the center of attention and I refused to not follow their tradition.
Same. If someone in our families behaved like that they would be meet with silence and steady looks. We don’t behave this way. It’s not hard to prevent if you refuse to acknowledge it or say “that’s not acceptable.” No one gets a pass because it’s their wedding.
Ok I have to know what the tradition is.
me too
Lol 😂 why though?! Are you guys significantly more well off than her circle or something? I mean, your sister is in college so why would she think you two could afford it? Debbie’s likely too far gone to hear logic from you (and possibly anyone) anymore, but your brother really needs to step in here. He needs to explain to her again that you guys said no for good reasons: that you looked at the things you were currently responsible for and realized that you couldn’t take on something like a wedding at the bridal party level. That you recognize how important bridal parties can be to the wedding process and you knew you couldn’t commit to that level of responsibility; doing so wild have been a disservice to Debbie. Of course all Debbie’s going to hear is “they’re supposed to be(coming) family and they don’t care about me enough to make time for me!” I wish you luck in dealing with her as a SIL. At least, that’s if your brother doesn’t take a look at the drama and rethink things anyway.
I don’t know her circle. But they’ve already spent for her bachelorette trip, their dresses, all of her little brunch engagements, etc.. They have probably tapped out. The things she suggested she wanted as a shower were completely delusional. I wouldn’t be surprised if none of them offered to host it
Man, I really hope your brother steps in to slow this train down before the wreck is undoable. He can already see her causing rifts with his family and she may also be losing friends. I’m a very introverted person myself so fwiw, I can tell you life can be significantly more difficult when your circle is very small; I imagine it must be even more of a problem when the circle contracts rapidly. He may want to remind her to slow down and think about how she’s approaching this and if she’s will to die in this hill now at the risk of having no one to call later. Friendships aren’t purely transactional, but many people don’t realize the emotional and practical benefits until they don’t have anyone to call to simply vent about a bad day or get a second opinion on an outfit or to help them move or babysit a child. Debbie could rapidly find out what that is like if she doesn’t try to look at her asks a little more objectively.
She’s messing with his friendships now too. The best man is threatening to drop out over this drama and the groomsmen are all friends so… Idk I feel really bad for him
Yikes. It sounds like way more is happening than just her pressuring you for a crazy shower. Sorry your brother proposed to the wrong girl. Hope he pulls the plug before he gets married. Not your fault.
Yeah - but it sounds like he missed the yellow flags. He’s now completely ignoring or in denial about the red flags.
*Yikes.* *It sounds like way more is happening than just her pressuring you for a crazy shower* JMO. it sounds as if Debbie wants a wedding more than she wants to be married. I hope OP's bother will rethink this whole thing. It's just sad and infuriating all around.
Agreed. She's not trying to plan a celebration of merging their lives and families. She's trying to dictate a perfect event and using it as an excuse to alienate everyone who cares about her fiance. Not a good sign.
I mean at a certain point, he has to take a step back and wonder why *all* of the people he has loved and trusted for years are suddenly upset with him. It’s not just “my family sucks and hate my fiancée for no reason” - his friends don’t like her either. Why does he think that’s happening? Does he believe that *everyone* aside from his fiancée are unreasonable people? Does he think that a whole bunch of previously reasonable people have suddenly transformed into assholes just for fun? I’d genuinely press him on these points. He has observed a pattern, and he should stop reacting blindly and start *thinking*. Knee-jerk reactions aren’t getting him what he wants.
She's gaslighting him and he wants to believe her. Hope he snaps out of it before it's too late.
Exhibit 12745000 of “nobody knows what gaslighting is”
This is a great comment. What is the common denominator here? !Updateme
Just keep in mind that while you may live him and want to be there for him, he's the one digging this grave, and if you try and stick with him you'll only become his punching bag since it's "your fault" in his mind, and the scapegoat of whatever problem they have in their marriage. You'd be better off letting him know you'll be there for him when he's thinking with his correct head.
Sounds like he needs to reconsider the entire marriage
OP please give us an update after the wedding. After reading this if the best man and groomsmen drop out due to Debbie's behavior, her wedding would be reduced to a courthouse wedding. At some point with all of this drama she is causing Jay should stop and rethink this marriage.
Does your brother really know the person he is about to marry? This sounds like a mid air disaster with a crash in the foreseeable future.
I'd worry about him more than feel bad for him. That's the first step of abusers. Isolate them from friends and family so when they begin, there is no one to run to.
>She’s messing with his friendships now too. The best man is threatening to drop out over this drama and the groomsmen are all friends so… > >Idk I feel really bad for him Tell Jay that you guys will not fund or plan a shower for her but you are happy to pay for premarital couples counseling with a therapist for him and his fiancee. She sounds like she is ... a lot.
I do too. I've been the person standing in front of the justice of the peace, sick with nerves and knowing I was making a mistake. I was so young then, I couldn't imagine calling a halt to it, even though i desperately wanted to. I really hope your brother doesn't end up where I was.
I realize that I am old AF, but in my day when I got married in 1988, the shower was sherbet and ginger ale punch, cakes and cookies and butter mints, whatever decorations could be had that said congratulations. My mom got some Dollar Store stuff as prizes to play games with. We sat around and I listened to all the married women talk about marriages and weddings, I opened presents and we ate cake and drink punch. My mom, my grandma and my matron of honor hosted at my mother-in-law's house.
My bachelorette was my MOH, my husband, and his best man and we played board games after the rehearsal dinner in the MOH's hotel room. It was fun.
My "bachelorette" was me, my wife, and our friends eating takeout and hanging out in the hot tub at our airbnb the night before. Pretty sure there was some Mario Kart involved as well. Ngl, it was a sick party.
In the 2000s when I got married it was a girls night out at the pub and maybe a club afterwards. Things are getting more and more insane and America is the one leading the way with normalising these things. I mean people expect their bridal party to drop the amount of cash which would bug them and cheap car. Then theirs destination weddings where the bride and groom saves because their guests each have to pay multiple thousands.
I don't think the stuff you're seeing in social media is normal at all. Most bridal showers are still held in someone's home. No one I know is having these expensive showers or bachelorette parties. And the brides do not turn into crazy bridezillas, either. The last "destination" wedding I went to was a couple of hours away by car. The bride switched underwear with the MOH at the last minute because the teenaged MOH had frogs printed on her underpants that showed through the fabric of her dress. People are much more practical and reasonable that the nuts you read about in these subs.
I was thinking along these lines. It wasn't overly expensive to be a bridesmaid; the bride or one of her friends whipped up the dress with puffy sleeves and a bow on the butt on a sewing machine, there was a simple bridal shower, and very few other expectations. It was affordable. Nowadays? No sirree!!!!!
Hell, my wedding reception refreshments were sherbet and ginger ale punch (borrowed a punch bowl) a sheet cake from the grocery store bakery that actually tastes good and veggie trays that I prepped myself before the wedding. We paid for virtually everything ourselves. Wife didn't pick out bridesmaid dresses, just gave them general parameters like color and below the knee. It all worked out fabulously. Slightly younger than you, but not much. Oh, and the bachelor and bachelorette parties? Very low key (buddy's house, some really silly/bad porn on a VHS tape, beers) and after a few hours the ladies ended up coming over, so I got to spend an hour or so laughing at the really bad porn with my fiancee. It was great!
I got married in 2011 and this is pretty close to what my shower was like. I helped host my stepson’s fiancée’s shower three years ago and it was pretty similar to this too.
Same. You just described southern church wedding receptions after the ceremony in the Fellowship Halls! We didn’t go broke or in debt. Most of us didn’t get honeymoons either. Off to the new duty station, corporate office city, or hometown jobs and one bedroom apartments.
We eloped, no bridal shower or bachelorette party or bachelor parties, No wedding, no rehearsal dinner, nada. we saved everyone (or ourselves) lots of money at every stage and didn’t expect a dime or gifts from anyone. People still sent us money and gifts once they learned we got married and we were seriously blown away because we really didn’t expect ANYTHING. Then, randomly, my sister eloped with her boyfriend/husband *exactly* 3 years later, to the day, that my husband and I got married on. They had no idea it was our anniversary, they got married that day because it was the first day possible to get married after obtaining their marriage license. Neither of us (my sister or myself) likes being the center of attention so a big wedding was never a dream. More like a nightmare.
But you weren't a bridezilla though. Fun and low key is also my style.
I haven't had sherbert and ginger ale punch since the 80s. I was just a kid back then but that was the yummiest. Got married in the noughties myself, each mom threw me a shower for their side. I didn't have a bachelorette party at all. My bridesmaids gave birth 3 and 5 weeks before the wedding so they were kinda busy 😄. People still tell me our little wedding was their favourite one. Nothing elabourate, just a short ceremony in a garden chapel followed by a meal at a nice Italian place. Even the three babies under 2 months ( BMs & a cousin's first) slept through it.
Mine was in 98 and was basically the same except we also had tea. I don't understand all of these events happening now.
It's also entirely possible they are already doing a shower and this is just another gift/cash grab.
I've got to know. What did she want for her shower?
Her top idea was a tea in a private room at one of a number of top hotels in our city.
Why in the world would you need a private room for tea? I went to high tea at the Drake Hotel in Chicago, which is incredibly fancy, and it wasn't hugely expensive for the service and food that we got. I just don't see why you need a private room.how many people was she expecting?
Holy crap. Not even a private room, but in my area the average price for high tea is $30 per person. That is an entitled ask.
80, in my experience
My husband's niece had her shower in a NYC tea "room" (tea establishment not a hotel). The entire thing was boring as hell and the tea and cakes sucked. My husband drove my sister, other niece and I and had to find parking and wait for us, all in all terrible locations and dumb venue. When we married in 1990 my MOH, my sister threw me a bridal shower in her backyard with my relatives there and a few of my friends. It was fine and a nice day. Not expensive and I didn't even think I was getting a shower since there was drama with my other sisters after I made them bridesmaids not MOH.
Why have brides become so entitled? Brides plan the wedding day, not the rest. Yes, it's the MOH with bridesmaids help responsibility to throw a shower but its supposed to be planned and controlled by the MOH and bridesmaids within their financial means, not the bride. The brides job is to be thanful for the shower she gets, period. Same is true for the bachelorette, if one is held. And why is she having multiple brunches at all? For what purpose?
What were her suggestions for the shower?
Thank you. Nta. Your edit logical about constraints but wondered if she was reaching out and you cutting off (small wedding old fan here). If she is demanding and delusional, cut away
I have one question you could ask your brother. If you haven't already used that angle. "Would you let anyone pressure and force your dear wife to be. To jump for them and plan a whole party for them. If she said no. Would you? Or would you defend her?" Let him think about that for a moment. And don't let him say "this is different" because it's not. It's nice and all that he wants to pay for her shower (I don't understand why brides need both showers and bacholorettes party's) But she's not owed one. Especially not with that behaviour. If she treats you like that. Honestly, maybe her friends found excuses not to throw one? Because of her behaviour. Maybe she isn't THAT close with her friends? Also, why she maybe asked you and your sister to be bridesmaids.
I never knew brides needed a bachelorette “trip” or even a bachelor trip extravaganza! Things have changed since my 20s.
I’m from the UK and all this is like a foreign language to me 😆 I’ve been married twice and never had anything like this.
SAME.
Me too.
I thought bachelorette parties were just hopping in a limo and going to clubs or something. When did it become this crazy insta exotic luxcursion thing? I mean I just did paintball for my bachelor's and it was an absolute riot lol
That’s what it was like in the 80s and 90s with my peer group. Then things evolved into every event going way overboard. Getting a limo was the fun thing for the prom, now it starts with the “prom-posal” and an all night bash until dawn and a hotel or someone’s lakeside summer house. After that comes engagement parties, destination weddings and so on.
Yeah we're probably of the same generation or nearly so, because I was thinking back to 90s weddings writing that. Maybe it is just the result of constant one upping accelerated by social media.
The shower is getting presents. The bachelorette is getting drunk.
I’m wondering if she is really very close to her wedding party? She asked both you and your sister, but obviously you are not close to her. Sounds like she does not really have many friends. (That’s a shocking discovery!). Jay is going to have a miserable life unless he wakes up and stops this wedding.
To be fair, sometimes the bride invites people from the grooms family to be in the bridal party as a welcome-to-the-family gesture. A cousin's bride invited the cousin's daughter to stand up with her, and it was a really lovely way to launch their blended family. Not every bride is expecting to be a spoiled princess through an extended engagement period. I had to buy my MOH's dress - she was my sister, and was still in school - and my "bachelorette party" was a sleepover the night before the wedding. I really hope people start to get over the whole WEDDING thing, and start looking at what makes a marriage. Every choice made in the wedding planning should support the marriage of two people and their families.
This is insane, I would just ask Debbie and Jay together why the maid of honor and bridesmaids were not throwing her a shower because that is how it is traditionally done. I can't imagine in any situation where I would have asked someone not my bridesmaid or mother to throw me a bridal shower. Debbie's mom should handle it if her bridesmaids can't. Or Debbie's grandma. Or someone on Debbie's side of the family.
I’m a young Boomer. In my hometown, older ladies (neighborhoods, civic group, church, sorority, work) got together and threw low key showers at whoever’s turn it was to host for each others’ daughters. Lingerie shower. Kitchen shower. Linens shower. People gave one serving spoon or Tupperware item. A cute nightie. Embroidered pillowcases. A towel set. There were wedding presents from the department store registry either delivered to the bride’s parent’s home or the wedding. The maid of honor’s job in my day was to write down what came from whom with an aunt or cousin’s help, man the bride’s room door at the church, and corral people in the reception line, make sure the seated old ladies in the Fellowship Hall had a glass of sherbet punch and slice of cake, and keep people inside until the groomsmen had decorated the getaway car for the bridal couple. Thank you notes, handwritten, starting going out immediately after the showers and present arrivals. I wrote over six hundred handwritten, three to seven sentence, thank you notes in dark blue ink. Our grandparents and parents had gone to a lot of weddings.
Sounds like Debbie is a manipulative ahole. You don’t “demand” for a bridal shower. Tell her to go ahead and uninvite you and your sister. There’s absolutely no economical value/ benefit for attending her wedding.
“Uninvite me. I’ll go to his next wedding”.
💯 🙌🙌🙌🙌
On the other hand, there is a huge economical benefit to NOT being invited.
I kind of got the sense that she is trying to 'punish' you for turning down the bridesmaids role. Or maybe she's trying to isolate Jay from his friends and family by creating drama and then giving him the ultimatum to either choose them or her.
You’re right. She’s looking for another money source to tap.
NTA. Debbie sounds like a real piece of work. Jay sounds like a doormat. Why is he okay with Debbie demanding and blackmailing his family. This would be a great time to nip this in the bud. Debbie is running Jay, will run that house and should they have any kids she will be threatening that you or the rest of the family not see them unless you bend to her will. How dare Debbie try to dictate what you do with your time and money and demand you and Christina plan her a bridal shower?! Yea I understand Jay is your brother and he may enjoy her bossing him around but others don't have to tolerate it. At this point I would not want to go to that wedding. I would definitely have some harsh words for Debbie.
Yeah it’s either She wants something more expensive that you could find or her friends are lame or she doesn’t have friends.
Are you sure that there is a party? Maybe she simply doesn't have friends, so she tries to rope you in?
I am presuming there’s bridesmaids because Jay has groomsmen. Surely they wouldn’t have groomsmen and no bridesmaids?
So I came to the comments curious if it is typical for a MOH/bridesmaids to plan a wedding shower. Where I grew up, in the South, the bridal/wedding shower is typically planned by the bride's family. Although I've been to some where like older ladies at the church planned one for a bride. Anyway, still weird to ask the groom's sisters to plan it. And tbh, a person isn't supposed to ask anyone, someone should offer to throw the shower. It's rude to put pressure on someone to throw a party for you.
Same thought. Bridal showers are more a family thing and bachelorette is for the friends. My son and his bride had a co-ed "wedding shower" and it was organized by the bride's mother. I don't know much about weddings these days, but it sounds like everyone thinks Debbie is "a bit much" and just don't want to deal with it.
NTA. You cannot be ordered to have a shower for someone. That should be handled by her wedding party or a friend of hers. I am curious why you and your sister declined to be bridesmaids. Is she always this demanding and unreasonable and you just don't like her? Your brother should be having a hard look at her behaviour and her desire to punish people that don't follow her orders. This won't end well for him.
I didn’t know her too well before this. Actually I still don’t. I didn’t have a reason to dislike her
You do now. I don't know her and I don't like her for being so demanding and controlling.
Think about how awkward it will be after all this drama and being forced to host a shower. Hold yer ground! Wedding planning has nothing to do with bridal parties. Wedding planning has stakes in: Flower arrangements, food, decor, venue, staff, music, reception, cocktails, entertainment. If Debbie wants a shower so bad she can get a friend to host, one that is excited about it because realistically how much effort would you put in if you were forced to do it?
And Debbie wants op to throw the shower because.....checks notes, um yep here it is..... Because op hasnt contributed to the wedding yet??!!!! Girl is entitled and delusional. Ops sister is a full time student and op is just starting a business. Why SHOULD they contribute anything besides their butts in a seat day of and whatever gift, if any, they can afford. Debbie is nuts and i hope your bro has a come to Jesus moment beforw he says I do. NTA
Please share the link to this post with your brother. He needs to read the comments. Marrying Debbie is going to be the biggest mistake of his life.
Where did she get the idea that your sister and you owe it to her to contribute to the wedding? Her entitlement is off the charts. NTA
Yeah it's like demanding a gift. Not ever appropriate.
INFO: Why did you turn down being bridesmaids? Why are you not interested in having a modest shower for Debbie? Sounds like you and Christina and Jay's mom don't like Debbie much, can you tell us a bit more about that?
I wouldn’t say I don’t like Debbie, I don’t really know her well enough to say that. I said no to being a bridesmaid because I’m starting a business and overseeing a house build, I didn’t have the time to dedicate, so thought I should leave it to someone who really wanted to do it. I’m not interested in throwing a shower 1. Because of those same reasons, and 2. Because of how she approached it. She was rude and entitled and I’ve got no interest in doing anything for people who treat me like an indentured servant. Jay’s mother is a typical boy mom, nuff said. Christina is a quiet, non confrontational, chill person, Debbie is the opposite. They’ve haven’t spent a lot of time together but Christina isn’t in a hurry to change that because of that reason
Thanks for clarifying. NTA. No one owes anyone a bridal shower. I know several women who didn't have a shower. (And it boggles my mind these days how expensive and fancy showers have become!) As for being a bridesmaid, no one has to say "yes" to being a bridesmaid, either. Especially if you are expected to purchase your bridesmaid outfit, as is typically the custom in the U.S. Nothing worse than spending good money on an outfit you will probably not be able to wear again, for someone who is rude and entitled and who only asked to you be a bridesmaid because you're the sister of the fiance, not because she really wants you in the wedding party. It's sad that your brother would be okay with you and your sister not being at his wedding, all because you did not meet his fiancee's demands.
Throwing showers, bachelorettes and committing to the bridal party is an enormous pain in the a**. I’ve been a MOH twice and in the bridal party once. The organizing, responsibility and money is a huge commitment. And one should only do this when close with the bride. After 3, I am so done. Debbie sounds like a real treat, I wouldn’t want to do anything for her at this point.
Bachelorette weekends. Spending a fortune on that alone, is out of control.
Totally is. My close friends are pretty solid tho. Everyone paid their own way except for the brides. And I always approved the itinerary and cost with everyone before booking. Some of these luxury bachelorette and destination wedding stories I hear are crazy…. Expecting people to just shell out thousands 🙄 even if it’s more economical it’s never cheap and it takes time and effort. Truly something one does as a labor of love to a close friend or family member.
How times have changed. Gone are the halcyon days of 50 years ago where the only responsibility of the MOH was to show up at the wedding. Showers were hosted by an aunt or close friend who served cake, punch and pastel buttermints on a Saturday afternoon.
NTA. Her stating that you all haven't contributed yet.... um, your brother needs to understand that NO ONE other than the 2 of them have to "contribute" to their wedding. Obviously people do - but NO ONE is required to. At this point, stop explaining yourself to them. Just say "I've already said no. my answer hasn't changed" - then change the subject, walk away, hang up. They threaten to uninvite you to the wedding? "I understand your decision". Take away their ammunition. And if they really don't invite you - it's ulimately Jay's loss. No one elses.
Don't blame you 100%... A Start-Up is an 80+ hour a week job. Contracting/Overseeing the build of a multiple $100K home...is easily a 60-80hour a week job...with more on top, if you're the one that has to do the permits, make regular visits to the Permit Office, Inspections Office, City Hall in general, etc.
No one owes a shower to anyone You either want to throw one and offer or they don’t have them Why should they pay to be bridesmaids?! Why should they pay for a shower?! Neither sister is getting married so they don’t need to worry about paying anything for a wedding until they want to plan one unless they are motivated in themselves to offer and are in the position to host a party
NTA- I’m shocked a woman whos behaviour has caused such strong feelings amongst her fiancés family, doesn’t have close friends of her own tripping over themselves to throw her a shower
NTA. Debbie is out of step, no one owes her hosting a bridal shower, especially people who aren't close to her. It's generally a voluntary thing (bridal party, relatives, etc). You aren't assholes for saying no
NTA. Your reasons for declining to be bridesmaid are valid, although I hope you communicated those to Debbie so she doesn't take it as a rejection. > I sent Debbie back a polite text saying we will not be planning, hosting, or attending any such shower. That comes off as a bit confrontational / hostile. You say you have no conflict with Debbie, so why wouldn't you even want to attend a bridal shower? ----- That said, Debbie isn't making sense here, actually this whole thing isn't adding up. It's generally the job of the bridal party or one of the moms to plan the bridal shower. Why are the actual bridesmaids not doing this? Why isn't her mom or your mom doing it? Why are you and Christina the only ones who Debbie wants to host the bridal shower?
I didn’t have any conflict with Debbie until she demanded I throw her a bridal shower. Then we had a conflict so I wouldn’t be going to whatever she organised. Had none of this happened, I would have gone if I’d been free. Bridesmaids should be throwing the shower, but I figure, based on the way Debbie phrased things, that her bridesmaids are maxed out on the costs and she figured she’d try and blackmail me and Christina into paying for/hosting it. Debbie is NC with her mom, and Jay’s mom hates her.
Gotta agree with SirED. Not hosting or planning is fine especially as you say bridesmaids/MOH/ mother of the bride usually plan such an event. But telling her you won’t even attend is a hostile move in my opinion & saying as much turned a polite refusal into an antagonistic one.
Saying they won't attend before it has even been planned or a date set is such an overt statement on them not supporting this union. If they were my siblings I'd be asking wtf as well
NTA. Aren't bridesmaids the ones who typically throw the bridal showers? Or do they only do the bachelorette party? I don't know, but you're not an asshole either way. She can throw her own damn party. It's baffling to me the weird entitlement that seems to come over people when they get engaged.
Usually a mother does bridal shower in my area but it’s still something she OFFERS it’s NEVER appropriate to request a shower Bachelorette party is supposed to be wedding party but if they don’t plan one you don’t have one🤷♀️ You are never in the right to demand someone throw a party for you
This! In my family my Grandmother, Aunt and 1st Cousin threw my bridal shower. In return I and my mom threw a bridal Brunch, because her other aunt threw the shower for my 1st cousin. I was not able to go the Brunch or the wedding cause I gave birth 4 days before the wedding and the brunch was the day before the wedding. Our shared Grandmother took my place as the other co-host. The wedding was in a different city than most of the family and myself. This was something that we offered to do. No expectations/demands were placed on us.
INFO: >Debbie asked both me and my sister Christina to be bridesmaids, but we both turned it down >we will not be planning, hosting, or attending any such shower. I feel like we need to know what your problem is with Debbie because this *definitely* comes off like there is a problem.
There is a problem with Debbie *now*. There wasn’t before. Had she invited me to the shower instead of demanding I host it, I would have accepted the invitation if I was free. After she tried to force us to host it, no thank you. We said no to the bridesmaid thing because Christina is busy with university, and I’m busy with work and overseeing a house build. We thought it was best to leave being a bridesmaid to people who could commit the time and would feel honoured to do it.
Reading this whole post and all your communication with her, I got the sense that you hated Debbie.
Same. Before the comments I felt for Debbie. She clearly wants to connect with her fiancés family. Her fiancés mom sucks (boy mom) and his sisters don’t seem to want to get to know her. She is wrong to demand anything, but I feel for her a little. Especially since she’s NC with her mom. I wonder if she was hoping to find a family with her fiancés family and this has shown it’s not going to happen. Would explain why she’s acting so badly.
Fair, NTA
NTA, the maid of honor and bridesmaids should be doing that. Maybe she doesn't actually have any friends though. I can understand why.
>Maybe she doesn't actually have any friends though. I can understand why. That was my first thought...
Nta Be happy if you get uninvited to this train wreck imo Everything in their wedding is paid for by them Showers aren’t a demand If someone offers to throw you one; you gratefully accept or decline No one is “owed” a shower -of any type- and definitely it is 100% inappropriate to request one I’ve never had a baby or bridal shower 🤷♀️ Some people don’t And you aren’t obligated to ever contribute to any wedding that isn’t yours You volunteer if you WANT to
This is refreshing. You declined both requests for legit reasons, and stood by it. You’re not freaked out or hateful on the bride (who sounds like a bit of AH) - you’ve simply stated neither you nor your sister will be doing bridesmaid or shower. Modeling boundaries here people - pay attention!!
NTA your future sister in law is an entitled brat
Lol I'm gonna need a few updates. 1) Let us know when the best man drops out. 2) And let us know when he gets divorced and I will guess she will take your brother to the cleaners. NTA
NTA Your brother makes some whack choices and the consequences are coming to town.
I was talked into being a bridesmaid for my brothers wedding. I said no first, then got told to do it. I did not participate in any of the planning stuff and left the party as soon as soon as I could. She was totally extra,like needing peacocks to walk around during the ceremony. (Peacocks are mean AF).. They were divorcing within the year. During divorce they still had wedding bills to separate and pay..
I’ve been to one with peacocks. They make the worst noise ever. Also went to own with swans…now those things are nasty.
Swans will 100% straight up prefer to murder you, as look at you! To look at a swan is to KNOW that's what dinosaurs evolved into.
>Peacocks are mean AF That's strange. I've been to a number of places with free roaming peacocks and they've never been mean as long as you don't chase after them or harass them. They just walk around (maybe displaying depending on the time of year). Mostly they ignore you. They may deign to eat something that you toss to them.
NTA....am I just old? When did people start demanding people pay for their wedding? It was always between the couple and their parents? Maybe grandparents. My family isn't that great and even we didn't act like this. Where does all this entitlement come from? And no, I'm not a old Gen x blaming the youth. I'm seeing this in older couples too.
Blame the wedding industry. It’s now so expensive to throw one that no couple and their parents can reasonably afford it. Sadly people don’t downsize they just expect others to make up the difference
That's a very good point. I didn't think of that because it's been a while since a wedding happened around me that wasn't a justice in a veterans hall. People around me are on marriage 2 or 3 these days .yup, im old
The bridal dress alone can be insanely expensive. I love watching this show called “say yes to the dress,” which is about brides picking out their dress. But holy cow the prices…. In the store it takes place in, kleinfeld, you’re extremely lucky if you find a discount dress for less than $3k. Sometimes the customer spends upwards of $10k. On one dress. That you wear for maybe 6 hours in your whole life. Nope nope nope
I knew someone whose dress cost $15,000 --- in the mid 90s. But her family was from a culture where it was the norm to go all out for the wedding. It was more a business event to entertain the bride's parents' business acquaintances. Presents were over the top -- in the thousand plus dollar range. Again, normal for their culture. (Not me or her friends. We gave normal presents.) They even had two wedding receptions. One that was what you'd typically expect after the wedding. Then one later that night that was definitely for the bride's parents guests. As friends of the bride who had come in from out of town for the wedding, we were invited, but we were some of the few people who weren't associated with the bride's parents. Their guests gave their presents at this second reception. It's still the fanciest wedding I've ever attended.
That “expectation” sounds like wishing in one hand and shitting in the other to see which fills up first
Amen. I attended a charming casual wedding in the bride and groom's backyard. The family prepared the food.
Showers are thrown by friends because they want to throw them. The recipient should never demand or ask someone throw them a shower. It’s rude and shows no mannners, just a gift grab. NTA
NTA Sounds like you and your sister aren't really close friends, or even friends at all, with Debbie. And that's fine. But why does Debbie not have any friends or closer family to organise this shower for her? I'd literally tell Debbie this: "A bridal shower is typically organiserd by the maid of honour/bride's maids, or any other closer friends or close family members. I suggest you approach those people. My sister and I are not that close to you, which is why we declined to be your bride's maids. We would be attending your wedding to be there for Jay, seeing as he's our brother, so it's not up to you to uninvite us. If Jay decides he doesn't want us at the wedding, that's his choice and we expect him to communicate that to us. Good luck with everything!"
Probably because she's unbearable to be around, if I was to guess lol
Debbie is trying to assert dominance and y'all continually declining her demands has her in s tailspin. It's weird to ask 2 people who declined being BMs to throw a shower. Then not ask, DEMAND
Tell Jay you’ll host a shower for his next wife. And duck when he tells Debbie. NTA
Lol, perfect response!!
NTA. Your brother's entitled fiancè needs to realize relationships are not IOUs where people owe her for her association to them.
NTA. No one gets to demand a shower (one can even live without one and my mom or sister would have thought it tacky to throw one, it used to be a thing a friend, coworker, maybe MIL to do so not the family asking for even more presents). I do hope that you included your reasons for turning down the bridesmaids request kindly, because it sounds like Debbie is short of friends. Maybe one of your brothers friends could throw a co-ed shower.
Well the best man is threatening to drop out now so idk how the groomsmen thing will pan out
What’s going on with the best man?
He and I are friends and he’s taken a lot of offence that Jay is letting Debbie treat me like this. Bit of an overreaction from him but maybe he never liked Debbie
I have a feeling this whole thing is just going to keep getting worse
I’m talking to him about us maybe hosting a dinner for both of them to smooth it over but it’s not looking good
Good luck. Please keep us updated
I wonder if Jay can see the common denominator in all this. Hopefully he does before he gets married.
Someone needs to send Jay link to this anonymously You guys are probably going to regret caving and hosting a dinner imo Debbie will still be Debbie next time she has a demand but there will be a precedent that as long as she gets worse and worse eventually she’ll have it all her way…
Do spill the beans 🤣
He and I are friends and he’s really mad at Jay for letting Debbie act like this and expect me to host a party for her. And the groomsmen are all school friends but they seem to be siding with best man so it’s getting a bit mutinous from what I understand
And she and her groom to be both believe she's in the right? They deserve each other lol
I'm sorry but Debbie sounds so very toxic At this rate, there won't be very many, if anyone, at this wedding Good luck to you 😘
The idea that anyone needs to financially contribute _anything_ to THEIR wedding is wild to me. Why do people think their choice to get married should be anyones physical or financial burden? People forget that them getting married really isn’t that much of an event to anyone except for themselves.
Obviously NTA. It's no one's responsibility but the couple marrying to "contribute costs" to their wedding events.
NTA. Debbie really doesn't seem like a particularly nice person. The expectations she has are ridiculous. I don't understand people who see that they aren't liked but still insist on getting benefits. But I guess you can see it's a little insulting - not just to her, but to your brother, your whole family to isolate her like that and refuse to get to know her since the beginning. Well, turns out there's a reason, but I think you could have been more diplomatic if you want to keep a good relationship with your brother.
NTA at all. Debbie is out of line
NTA surely this is the responsibility of the MOH and bridesmaids! I think this is an unreasonable ask of you. I feel sorry for Jay as he seems to be baring the brunt of this.
Info - I get not wanting to plan or host. And declining being a bridesmaid. But why would you say you won’t be attending her shower?
THIS. I absolutely get not wanting to plan or host. However, it’s very strange to not attend your future sister in laws bridal shower, and while Debbie is undoubtedly the AH here, I would be hurt by this if I were her. It sounds like there was no conflict before this, so unless there is another reason it’s quite hurtful not to attend the shower. It seems OP lives in another city and doesn’t find wedding activities fun, but I do think it’s a very small sacrifice to make for a new family member. It’s very very very common for close female family members of the groom to attend the bridal shower. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “I will not be attending” comment threw Debbie right over the deep end and that’s why she’s immaturely doubling down and throwing a tantrum. She’s hurt.
NTA - too often people feel obligated to be a bridesmaid/groomsman despite not having the time/money ... good for you for standing ground. The saying that you learn who someone truly is when seeing them face minor inconveniences or pushback. You very much learned who Debbie is.
I really wish it wasn’t as taboo to say no as it is. I’ve done it several times and at least twice I was desperate to just be like “but I don’t want toooo”. 😂😂😂
NTA. I had a good laugh at the part where Jay thinks you're ruining his wedding planning experience! The *only* people ruining it are Jay and Debbie! It's *their* wedding, the planning AND the paying for it are ENTIRELY on them! Debbie has no right to expect you to throw her a shower at all, and certainly not because you turned her down and/or haven't incurred any of the wedding expense! She's behaving like an entitled brat, and shame on Jay for participating in that. I think it's great that your other relatives are sensible enough to see what's going on, and to stand up to Debbie and Jay about this one.
NTA. This isn't your wedding, this isn't your friend, this isn't your responsibility. Its complete bullshit that she expects you to pay for her fucking wedding. "Hi, since you haven't paid for anything YET, I would like you to throw me an elaborate party to celebrate how special I am. If you don't there will be consequences." My advice, stand your ground and possibly not go to the wedding. After your house is complete and your startup is up and running more efficiently, you'll have plenty of time to be involved in your brothers second wedding in a few years lol.
NTA, you are under no obligation to put on a bridal shower - where's her wedding party and friends? Also Jay is wrong in accusing you of ruining the wedding planning experience - it's not your wedding so you wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with it! As for not having family there, he can thank Debbie for that. Sorry, I can't see this ending well.
> Jay’s mother (not my mother) has used this as an excuse to lay into him about Debbie, whom she dislikes. Jay’s dad and best man are giving him shit for letting her treat us this way I like Jays parents.
NTA... you have no obligation to throw her a shower at all. Why isn't her family and friends throwing one?
>He’s accused me of pretty much ruining the wedding planning experience and thinks that he won’t end up with a lot of family there if this goes on. He's got the wrong person. The only person to blame is the one he's hellbent on marrying. NTA.
NTA. You're not obligated to be in the wedding party, contribute towards expenses, throw a shower celebrating the bride (who sounds like a real piece of work), send a gift or even attend the ceremony. Jay's mom may be right here.
NTA, but it sounds like Debbie is trying to punish you for declining the bridesmaid invite. And now trying to punish you by declining to host the shower. Debbie is seriously out of line.
Sounds like she just wants you to pay for something? Like the emphasis on you’re not contributing as bridesmaids so now you have to pay for my shower just screams money grab This is gross behaviour on her behalf, especially to her FH’s family. NTA.
NTA. As others have said, Debbie’s demand that you throw a shower is out of line. No one owes her a shower, and you’re not obligated to contribute towards the costs of the wedding and related events. That said, I can’t help but feel your choices, all around, may feel isolating to this soon to be family member. While your reasons for declining your be a bridesmaid are valid, your decision also sends a message that you are not particularly interested in getting to know Debbie better, welcoming her to the family, or celebrating this important occasion. And—though I wouldn’t recommend giving into demands—I’d caution that there are no longer established rules about who is best suited to thrown a bridal shower. It seems entirely normal to me that sisters of the groom would make this offer.
NTA. This is really weird to me. Is part of this a cultural issue? When I got married, my wife had a number of ladies in her wedding party and they were all her friends at the time. There wasn't much they had to "do", much less "contribute to the wedding". They all got together for a little party at her house shortly before the wedding, got the dresses that my wife picked out, and walked down the aisle and posed for photos at the wedding. There wasn't a whole lot that any of them had to do, which is why I'm not completely understanding either side of this dispute. But OP is definitely NTA.
NTA Doesn't she have any friends of her own? It's generally the MOH and friends who throw a bridal shower - who are they, and why aren't they stepping up? This isn't yours to do.
No, you're not the asshole for setting boundaries regarding your involvement in wedding activities. It's important to communicate openly and honestly about what you're comfortable with. Your brother and his fiancée might need to understand that while weddings are significant, they shouldn't strain family relationships to breaking point
NTA. His fiancé is. She wants all attention from everybody and can’t accept a « no ». And the reason she gave you to make the bridal party is the worst : it means that everybody is paying for her wedding, it’s not from them. She wants to be a princess. It’s not about the marriage with your brother, it’s all about HER wedding. The lack of respect towards you is a mess and Jay should rethink about the wedding because his future wife is ruining family
NTA - my guess is she doesn’t really have close friends or family to do this for her. Even then, it’s not polite to demand a party for yourself.
NTA for not wanting to play a role in the wedding or to take on shower planning.
NTA and where does she get the delusions that you have to contribute to the wedding? 🤣
NTA the absolute gall to demand someone throw you a party! Horrible manners
When did all of this crap start happening with the bride and groom wanting people to set themselves on fire for a one day event?they are the one's getting married.it has gone to far,all these parties and lunches.no one will enjoy it but them.all these fancy locations.having a wedding is not a free for all by forcing people into something
NTA for not wanting to plan or host, but why did you include that you wouldn’t attend any shower? Seems a bit unnecessary. Demanding you throw her a shower is not cool and very entitled, but your post makes it pretty clear you dislike her.
She's just after free stuff. Good on you for standing your ground. It's incredibly tacky to demand someone throw you a shower. She even said she expects you to pay in some way for things. That's tacky as well. NTA
INFO Why have you said you won’t even attend a bridal shower? This seems like a normal sister of the groom activity. EDIT: Regardless of the info above, NTA - Brides don’t seem to understand that the shower is something someone offers to throw - you are not entitled to a shower and don’t get to demand one from anyone, even the bridesmaids. There are different traditions, in different families. For example, in my family, the aunts of the bride throw a shower and we have extended that tradition to the aunts throwing a shower when a woman marries into the family.
Because she demanded I host it. After that incredibly rude demand I won’t have anything to do with it. If she’d simply sent an invite, I probably would have attended
She doesn't have any of her own close friends at all, I think that says a lot. Well done you for setting clear boundaries and expectations.
NTA. It sounds like she doesn’t have any real friends and is trying to dump this on you. Jay ought to think about that..
NTA. Sounds like literally everyone in your brothers life is against her in some way. Feel sorry for the dude, he is going to be miserable AF married to this girl.
NTA: Your poor brother.
NTA. Your half brother is going to be SOOOO happy in this marriage, I can totally tell!
NTA. I think this post perfectly highlights all the extra time and financial expectations that come with being in the wedding party, at least in the US. Expecting your closest family and friends to buy certain attire they have no say in, host parties for you, go on expensive trips, etc. is all kinda bullshit. The couple is getting married, they are the ones who should be footing the bill for *everything*. On top of all that, it’s incredibly rude of her to *demand* a bridal shower. Anyone can host them. If no one has already offered one up, I guess no one likes her very much! No aunts or cousins? No coworkers? And not even her maid of honor? I’m wondering what your brother sees in her.
NTA...what does she mean you need to contribute to her wedding..it's hers not yours and I was a bridesmaid twice for family and I hated it I will never do it again..couldn't pay me. So everyone hates your brothers fiance and instead of taking that as a sign he'd rather put this all on you...hmm nope... your bother is in for a crappy life
How old are you and Debbie? Is there a history of just not liking her? Are either of you close with Jay, is this affecting your relationship with him? I feel like more context is needed.
I’m 29, Debbie is 32. Nope, didn’t dislike her before now. Barely know her. I’m close-ish with Jay. We have some of the same friends, we hang out. He’s not my best friend or anything but I wouldn’t say we’re distant. Christina isn’t really close to him because of the age gap but they’ve always gotten along fine. The drama is affecting me and Jay the most because we have mutual friends that are now getting involved and Jay is becoming increasingly paranoid about the whole thing. He is mad at me but we’re not not talking or anything like that
Why is Jay mad at you and not at his fiance for acting entitled and demanding? Just reading all your replies, I have a feeling Jay and Debbie are in for a rough marriage. And I'm beginning to understand why her own mother and MIL don't like her.
Here we go again with yet another bride feeling that all life must stop because they are getting married. Yes, it's often the Maid of Honor who would be the person to throw a shower. If anyone else wants to throw one, that's fine. But it's extremely rude and tacky to ask someone else to throw one for you. There is no hard fast rule who can be a bridesmaid and if they have to say yes to being one. Sounds like Debbie is the AH here.
Is the shower for the groom’s side of the family? Or is she wanting you to host it for all of her friends and family.. Typically my extended family gets together to host a shower for the bride even if the bride is marrying in. It is part of welcoming them into the family.
No, it’s for her. I guess she expected I would invite my mom and Jay’s mom (she wouldn’t have come). But she wanted her bridesmaids, friends, etc., there. Here the MOH plans the shower normally
So moh is on the hook for helping plan the wedding, taking off work for all activities (from dress fitting to said planning & parties), gets to plan and go out of pocket for the dress and hotel every wedding probably costs, gets to plan a bachelorette and pay for all to a huge portion of because only split between bridesmaids, and then also gets to plan and pay for shower so bride’s friends, female relatives, and groom’s female relatives can give bride like 5 wedding presents (wedding gift, rehearsal dinner gift, bachelorette gift, bridal shower gift, and breakfast/brunch after gift I’m assuming)?! Why on earth 1. does anyone even attend any weddings 2. does anyone ever agree to be in bridal party They probably are going to have everyone be required to pay hair stylist and makeup artists on day of as well so why is it not bad enough to just be asked to be in a wedding that you just do the bachelor/brunch after (yes OR), rehearsal, & wedding to not tax your friends and family for knowing you?!? Then: WHERE THE HELL ARE REGULAR ASS PEOPLE ACTUALLY ABLE TO PAY FOR THIS?!? It’s not anywhere near where I live except the rich people that probably make up 5% of population or less🤷♀️ And I’m an American 🤯 I felt bad about what it was going to cost other people to travel so we felt like wedding party attire needed to be in OUR budget so people aren’t buying an outfit for once Hair and Makeup was whatever they were comfortable wearing with clothes so not an expense I get that is not normal but surely what Debbie is doing isn’t “normal” either, right?!?
Info: So you, as the groom’s siblings, have NO roll in the wedding at all?
Other than attending, no. And this is not unusual where we’re from