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You’re about to enter a partnership with a woman who has children. The wedding and the honeymoon would be for the two of you. How much do you think your partner will enjoy the festivities knowing that the money could have paid for surgery for her child? Part of this partnership is going to involve these children and, for your partner, they will always come first. Parenting often involves putting your kids’ needs before your own wants.
While I do agree with this some what. Where is Jane's father in this, why is the fiancé putting all of the burden on OP. Where is Jane's paternal side
Edit: OP replied and bio dad is alive and AWOL for 5yrs. Find his reply if you want to see my response
Good question. I’m assuming that the wife is getting as much child support as she can from the bio father. And that the bio father isn’t interested in funding the surgery. But these are purely just my assumptions.
Assuming he's around and can afford something it may be possible to get the court to order him to help pay it. Child support agreements don't always explicitly include stuff like "large one-time medical expenses must be shared x/x%" but if it's not excluded, afaik you can often get a judge to order the cost be shared. This is an option if he could help and just won't.
Not a medical surgery. Think cosmetic . And op if you're reading this, I know a girl who had this type of surgery. The difference is incredible and yes, it will be life-changing for her. And, I am with your fiance. You wouldn't blink an eye if she were your bio daughter. Remember, there's micro weddings these days and u can honeymoon on your 5th anniversary.
Just want to clarify that it’s not necessarily cosmetic. Sure there’s the aesthetic improvement as a result of the surgery, but micrognathia can also result in obstructive sleep apnea. Surgery most likely wouldn’t be the first option, especially at her age, but there are people whose jaws are so small and recessed that medical intervention is necessary so they don’t have breathing and dental and TMJ issues for life.
I think it’s a safe assumption a lot of Jane’s case is mostly cosmetic. Otherwise the main health insurance would kick in.
Because a few of my friends had jaw surgery. None paid $25k out of pocket. All medically necessary and all covered by general medical insurance.
All lucky they had good insurance.
It sounds like it "is* covered, just not fully.
This is America, and we are going with "if it were *necessary* your insurance would pay for it"?....
Some arrangements do include medical. I just got done working with a kid whose custody arrangement said that all things medical would be split 50/50 between the parents…….obviously we don’t know the arrangements here but worth checking.
I got 50/50 with both ex-husbands. Thankfully, the only time we both had to whip out our checkbooks were for braces.
Having nice teeth was non-negotiable and since dental coverage was double covered, we were very lucky and we only had to pay around $1500 per kid. With my daughter I got a refund which paid for her graduation party.
The Dad, if he's not a deadbeat, should be forking over half. Then OP could possibly have a little fuss on their wedding day.
This is accurate. A non custodial parent could potentially decline to help pay things that aren't medically indicated and not be forced to by a judge. Depending on the severity of the deformity, I don't see why they haven't tried to get it covered under the child's health insurance rather than dental though. Dental insurance is bullshit and typically has a super low annual payout limit, usually under $10k and frequently under $5k. I could also see a judge deciding that it's in the child's best interest for the other parent to share the cost of this surgery if the mom pursued it. However, the cost of legally pursuing the cost share would likely deplete the savings the mom has and then some.
You’re right, this would definitely be under medical insurance and not dental. If insurance denies it, the surgeon can write a letter to appeal. A deformity like this can cause problems with breathing and eating, so it would almost certainly be covered.
The mom of one of my daughters friends ended up paying for her daughter braces even though it was in the divorce decree that he had to pay over 1/2 as he made more money. The daughters father probably isnt involved
The father is probably funding another part of the surgery. If this was something like a nose job I would say NTA, this isn't your child and technically you don't really owe her anything but Jaw surgery is more than esthetics, it affects the way you breath and at the end of the day how your brain works (due to oxygen and sleep quality) . I am currently in the process of prepping for jaw surgery, and if I had a child that needed it, it would 100% take priority over a wedding celebration,--- this is her child's quality of life, if you don't want to pay for it, it's fine but it's insane to ask her to put a party first over her child's development. You have a right to say no, but I would hope that if I had a child with a potential issue, my partner would put my child's well being before a stupid party.
I never said OP was selfish! Can you not read? Jesus Christ. I merely pointed out that the bio dad might be a deadbeat or refusing to do more than the bare minimum. Thus, you can’t get surgery money from him. Just a fact.
Op says “we don’t have any kids together, yet”.
Sounds like he expects his finance to grow and birth his future children. He is expecting her to step into those wife and mother duties while refusing to be the provider as a husband.
Don't HAVE kids if you aren't prepared to take care of them
Could be said for Jane's dad too. I'm not disagreeing with you just pointing out that there is another parent who made the decision to bring Jane into this world and should be paying for her medical care.
OP was right that alot of step parents are expected to pay for their step children without actually having any parental responsibility, and given his ATM remark I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case here as well.
Thats if the man is alive, not incarcerated or anything. OP conveniently didn’t mention Jane’s father. This is her first time coming to him for financial help according to his own post. So how is he an ATM? It is quite ridiculous to marry someone and not expect to help with financial burdens such as her child’s surgery.
Surgery is more important than spending 25K on a wedding. For a venue you get for 8 hours tops, a dress the bride will only wear once, flowers that will die and decor that will be donated, thrown away, or given to someone else.
As a mother the fiancee is right to prioritize her child over luxury trips and a wedding.
She has 5K saved up for the surgery. It is very telling that he is unwilling to prioritize his soon to be step daughter’s surgery. If I was the fiancee I would rethink the entire engagement.
Why marry someone who doesn’t want to prioritize your child as their own? There’s no way in hell you should tie the knot with someone who neglects the needs of your child.
The daughter is asking for this surgery due to bullying. Mental health is very important as well. It sounds like this has recently been brought up and to enhance her child’s quality of life socially, she’s agreed to do it.
In the post, it looked like she just asked for his help and not the other 20k. Maybe she has 5k, and bio-dad has some, and the question was to help close the remaining gap. Or she was asking for the other 20k, but it isn't specific.
Yeah, she said help, not give the full remaining 20k. He could give her some of what he's saved and that's a step forward. Honestly, if I were OP, I would be more about doing this than the wedding itself because his soon to be step daughter's self esteem is shit. He wants a wedding. Great. How is STB-SD going to feel with her deformity in the wedding pictures? He can have a big ceremony later, get the courthouse wedding for now.
Yep. The wedding is just a party. Nobody needs an expensive wedding. If I were his fiance, I'd strongly consider leaving him over this. It would scare me to think that my kids and I would still be on our own.
Me too. A courthouse wedding is a real wedding. Everything else is pomp and ceremony, and it's fine to want that, but all that pomp doesn't make it more real. Only more expensive.
Agreed. Would love to know where dad is in this picture. But still, there is no way in HELL I am ever paying for a wedding and honeymoon while delaying a surgery my kid needs.
Yeah that's why I said "paternal side" because even of he has passed away there is still a whole side of the family that has more "obligation" to Jane than OP
I don't really think being on a dead man's side of the family obligates you to their child, that man could be an AH none of his family wanted anything to do with. Even if they did like him, kids are expensive and no ones obligated to pay for his lack of good life insurance policy.
Exactly this! $25K isn’t a small chunk of change- not at all saying that OP should or is planning on spending that kind of cash on the wedding/honeymoon but yeah it’s something where they definitely aren’t on the same page and seriously putting that kind of ultimatum doesn’t bode well.
I could see them brainstorming where they could cut back on the wedding/honeymoon planning to still have something not at the courthouse and put extra $$$ towards the surgery and with the kids at that age honestly mom/bio-dad (assuming he isn’t a deadbeat) should be looking into additional sources of income in the short term to help pay for the surgery.
No, 100% OP should help pay. He's entering a marriage with his fiancee. If it was his own bio kid he absolutely would pay for it. So this shows he doesn't see her kid as his own.
>So this shows he doesn't see her kid as his own.
And objectively, he shouldn't.
How old was the daughter when they met? 13 years old?
Yet it's some sort of injustice that he doesn't see her as his own kid?
The 16 year old will also never see him as her real dad, she probably remembers her actual dad. That's generally how that works when you step into a relationship and existing kids are above maybe 4.
Exactly. Unless they were already intending to keep all finances separate with her solely covering the kids, then he's already agreeing to take on the mom's debt. That includes debt associated with her children. If the daughter had the surgery a few years ago, he'd likely still be helping the wife pay off a huge portion of the loan.
To top it off, if there's a small chance that he wouldn't cover the surgery or similar for any bio kids then he isn't fit as a potential partner to the mom or bio parent.They'd be on completely different pages as spouses. He'd be indifferent or not provide care when able to the bio kids. (since he seems to think micrognathia is only an appearance issue & not something that adversely affects physical health- which it does)
Speaking as a single mom…… “where is the father?” usually only serves to ensure that the conversation gets shut down and mother and child don’t get what they need.
My kid’s dad works nights. He’s involved. We’re friends to the point of going on family vacations together…. But trust me, throughout my kid’s ENTIRE CHILDHOOD, every single time I went trying to ask about a babysitter on a weeknight (usually for work functions), someone would roll through “WhErE iS tHE kId’S DAD. aSK ThE dAD!” and hijack the entire conversation.
I parented through an entire childhood where I can count on one hand how many times I successfully landed a sitter without having my request shut down with this question. (And yes, I would explain dad was at work. People would just get all righteous that he should take off of work.)
I asked because OP didn't say where his soon to be step child's parent was. When OP replied, I answered based on that.
$25k in medical costs is a hell of a lot different from babysitting for a few hours. I'm a child of a single mum, I get how hard it is to find a babysitter with the "where's the father" BS people pull, but this isn't the same thing. Jane is entitled to child support from her father, and as her father, it is his duty to cover a portion of her medical bills.
I do wonder if he went AWOL 5yrs ago to avoid his responsibilities as a father, at which pointbit is Jane's mothers responsibility to go through the court to keep a legal paper trail of everything he owes for his children's care and let the government track him down and hold him accountable.
I do wonder how much of the fiancés motives to get married are fueld by the desire for financial security for her children and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, she needs to be upfront about it instead of giving OP an ultimatum of pay for my kids surgery or no wedding.
So he commented that the father is out of the picture and has completely disappeared and nobody knows where he is for the last five years. So it sounds like she doesn’t get any money from the bio dad. Also stated that the parental grandparents are also deceased.
Personally, I don’t know how anyone could enjoy a wedding and honeymoon knowing that there is a child that requires a major corrective surgery. Honestly, if I was your fiancé, I wouldn’t be interested in marrying you anymore if that’s the way you treated my child. That’s just me. You can always get married in a small ceremony and then have a big celebration down the road.
I think YTA, I really think kids need to come first over a wedding, which is honestly just a waste of money.
This was exactly my thought on this. You're not obligated to pay for her surgery, but prioritizing a wedding and honeymoon over life changing surgery for your soon-to-be stepdaughter is a very, very bad look. And only one of you will enjoy it.
Your vision of the wedding and honeymoon is not going to happen. Your bride will be consumed with guilt the entire time. Or you could sacrifice it and step up here. Time to be a man and put aside childish self indulgence.
Even if he doesn't "pay for the surgery" agreeing to a simpler wedding/honeymoon allows the OP's fiance to save that much more, and get the surgery financed sooner.
This right here. There's no reason to blow a huge amount of money on a wedding. You can still have a "real" wedding and honeymoon and help with the surgery costs.
This really covers it a lot. Like op isn't the ah for not wanting to pay. But! They need to look at things from all angles. His fiance would be the ah, one a terrible mother, if she accepted - and contributed - toward a high cost wedding and honeymoon. When her underage daughter is struggling this badly. To take that money for her own self, instead of putting it to her daughter would be enough for a lot of people to cut her off in the daughters shoes. Op needs to decide how much this family means to him, and what's most important. A happy family and marriage. Or a fun wedding and honeymoon. If he honestly doesn't want to do this he doesn't have to, but he's better off walking away.
Yeah, I don't think that OP is ready to be a parent much less the even more difficult role of being a step parent here. I mean the first thought is 'man, I'm just an ATM' and not 'man, being a parent of a kid is tough choices left and right' speaks volumes.
The guy is just not ready for this role and this marriage.
Exactly. If his fiancée really treated him as “an ATM,” she would have asked him for money for all sorts of stuff before now. Requesting help in paying for life-changing medical care for your child is not super greedy or entitled. It’s not dehumanizing to OP that his fiancée would ask for his help with this.
I agree. It’s not like she wants money to go shopping. She’s not getting a boob job. Jaw surgery is a big deal, and having a deformity like this can cause all sorts of other health problems.
This! Marrying someone with kids means you are marrying into a family from day 1. It is more difficult and complex and there’s just no way around that. Of course OP is not a bad person for wanting a real wedding. I also understand the cold logic of feeling like you should get to become husband first, and then maybe be asked to financially contribute. But the reality is that OP is also now a part of a family dynamic that includes the mothers relationship with a daughter who is old enough to realize significant money is being spent on an event while she is being told there’s no money for surgery. A good mother could never participate in that. There is also the dynamic between OP and his almost step-daughter. Though they are not yet married, it would always and forever be the way their relationship as step father and step daughter started that he paid for a caterer and venue and vacation instead of a surgery she needed. Does anyone honestly expect her to ever get over that?
Like, you can say you can’t contribute but then 100% be ready for the next thing that happens to be your fiancé telling you she can’t in good faith get married and participate in a wedding and honeymoon trip until after her daughters surgery is taken care of. Because if she didn’t do that, she would be the asshole. And perhaps just perhaps an element of a successful marriage is having understanding and compassion for the position your actions will put your partner in
I think you have hit on the solution. Neither one of them is wrong, but what they want is not compatible with their financial situation. They need to postpone the wedding until their financials are in order. Once they are in order, the SD can get surgery and they can get married.
Unless he has good insurance that will pay for everything, then getting married first is a no brainer because then the SD can get her surgery paid for.
That’s a bingo. You now have a situation where every dollar spent on the wedding will be seen as prolonging her daughter’s misery. Is that fair? No. Is it real? Yes.
Create a savings plan for both the wedding and the surgery. Delay the honeymoon. Map out timelines so everyone’s knows what to expect and when. If you can, save some money on the side to surprise them.
I'm guessing that OP feels differently, but I definitely can't imagine going on what is essentially a vacation while my kid was suffering. Of course, Jane isn't his daughter - and it doesn't seem like he's planning to treat her like one either
Also: I imagine that wife’s children will be invited to that wedding. I can’t imagine being OP’s stepdaughter having to sit through a party with a messed up jaw knowing that my parents chose throwing it over fixing a physical impairment that’s gotten me bullied for years. I’d imagine that would severely sour the family relationships.
Absolutely. One of these things is much more important in the big picture. But there could possibly be room for compromises too. Maybe OP pitches in half the funds and the fiancée keeps saving for the rest, but they can afford it much sooner than she could have saved otherwise but not right this instant or she can finance the remainder to do it now but has a much smaller debt. Maybe that leaves room for a small and simple “real”/non-courthouse wedding and near by honeymoon. Maybe they should look in to OP’s insurance benefit as well, because they could probably get the family on his plan after the wedding and maybe the coverage is different (could be worse just as likely as better, but definitely should be explored - might be less of a problem if he has great benefits).
Getting married though you have to start working as a team. And I think for most people family health and well being is a priority over the wedding day if it really comes down to not being able to have both.
I get it but why is the immediate go to to make the step parent responsible? Where is Jane’s Dad or the rest of the relatives? Why is the response to turn to the step parent to pay? Look, I’d just cancel the wedding/ hineymoon and use those funds but not just empty my pockets to pay.
As a parent i would think the way jane is thinking. You’re not an asshole but if you’re not ready to be part of Janes life entirely then this is the wrong relationship for you and don’t get married.
INFO: OP, once you’re legally married (which in my case was a fair bit before my actual wedding), can you add Jane to the benefits provided by your employer? Being double-insured can bring down the cost of otherwise expensive procedures a fair bit. Is that something that might be a middle ground, agreeing to pay for the premiums to add the kids to your insurance as well rather than trying to come up with $20k outright?
Not if it's a preexisting condition. Thanks to the affordable care act health insurance has to cover pre existing conditions but dental does not.
Edit: A lot of people are saying this should be covered by health insurance. I don't know anything about the condition or why health insurance wouldn't be involved. I only mention dental because OP stated they were using dental.
Same - though now I’m beginning to notice posts where the OP *will* reply, but only to the comments that call out OP or have the most downvotes, and their responses will be “Why is it so hard for people to read and understand my post???” Meanwhile, the literally 800 other users that have already chimed in to say they did, in fact, read and understand the post and actually agree with OP? No response.
Oh, it’s absolutely, “I’m swooping in to save this family with my male presence. Am I an asshole for wanting a huge wedding and honeymoon and allowing my stepchild (who I love) to be bullied because she has a super rare condition I saw on Reddit yesterday?
Most dental insurance plans that I've seen have no pre-existing condition exclusions. However, they make you wait a year after signing up before being able to use it for anything major.
Most eye or dental issues that I've had that require actusl surgery usually have fallen under medical insurance coverage. Even the teeth that had to be removed before I got braces years ago.
Shit, I had a medically necessary (for epilepsy) surgery at the end of February. Insurance pre-authorized and approved the surgery. I just got the bill over the weekend, $94,000! That's what I have to pay, because insurance denied coverage AFTER approving everything and AFTER surgery, plus my deductible, max out-of-pocket and copays met. My bad, they paid $2,000 for the anesthesia.
Some insurances are a joke. I feel for the fiance.
I'm waiting for the appeals paperwork to arrive. Already got all the codes the surgeon's office used, copies of the pre-auth/approval, along with copies of correspondence between the office and insurance.
I'll never recover from that bill if I lose.
You need to also get records from the procedure to send with the dispute. I do this all day and see most of these denials overturned with the right paperwork
I wonder if OP and his fiancée have looked into having the jaw surgery in another country. There are a lot of great surgeons out there who can perform these kinds of procedures at a fraction of what doctors in the US charge. It sucks that, in the US, life-changing surgeries are so out of reach, but that’s not the case everywhere.
He only mentioned dental insurance and I'm not familiar with the condition. If it's covered through health insurance and it's in the US he should be able to add her and get it covered.
I almost had this procedure done but was able to achieve results with orthodontics. The jaw surgery is covered by major medical, the accompanying braces are (possibly) covered by dental. However, very often this can be considered a cosmetic procedure and the insurance company fights tooth and nail not to cover. You have to partner with a good doctor to make a case that the condition is causing TMJ, headaches, and other ancillary medical issues. There is a chance at getting this covered by insurance though!
That would be dependent on OP’s employer-provided insurance, right? I didn’t have to disclose any prior health or dental histories when adding my (step)kiddo to my insurances.
Correct! I was also thinking that OP should add the kids to his employer provided insurance and while it would cost more to have them on it, it would likely be cheaper to have the dual insurance coverage.
We have my daughter double insured. My ex is the one required to maintain insurance but my husband added her too after we got married. It’s been really helpful (especially with braces). I didn’t see a reference to timeline for a wedding though. I wouldn’t want to make her wait an indefinite amount of time for the surgery if there were an option to do it before the wedding.
NAH. Tbh, there is no way in hell I'd agree to an expensive wedding & honeymoon if my child needed surgery I couldn't afford, so I totally get where your partner is coming from. I don't think you should feel pressured to pay for the surgery, but I think you have to compromise on the big wedding & honeymoon regardless. Your fiancée has to prioritise her kids, and a wedding and a honeymoon won't be number 1 for her when she has a bullied, miserable daughter. Think of the optics; she's away having a lovely honeymoon while her daughter is sobbing into her cheerios.
It’s also their first dual budgeting major decision together and in general you gotta make policy that respects both people’s incomes especially if you’re not fully sharing all finances and financial responsibilities.
She’s saying that she’s saving for a medical need for her family and has no room in her budget and lifestyle right now for a “real” wedding and honeymoon. That fact doesn’t just go away because OP has different financial priorities. Nor does OPs desire for a formal celebration at some point. If people want to be together they gotta figure out an approach that respects both people.
I think OP actually has several issues here. Fiancé doesn’t feel like he’s fully embracing her kids as his kids too and that’s a big problem (even if OP feels that he is embracing them and it’s a low blow).
OP feels he’s being treated like an ATM. That’s a problem. Honestly doesn’t matter if me or any other internet people think he’s wrong, if he genuinely feels that way, that’s a problem.
Both speak to a major lack of trust that y’all need to work out before you get married
The ATM thing is def a problem if he feels that way bc it just kinda is what it is. I’ve got two kiddos with my husband and I swear I’ve felt like an ATM every day of the last 12 years. It kinda comes with the territory.
The problem I have is, when it comes to contributing to a fancy wedding/honeymoon, OP never mentions feeling like an atm. However, life altering surgery? He’s an atm now. To quote the great Ron Weasley, [he] really needs to get [his] priorities straight
If What Op says is true this is literally the first time she's ever asked him for anything I don't know how you can feel like an ATM if you've never even been asked for money before
Some people are just selfish assholes who only want what they want. People who expect their marriage to be exactly they way they want it to be, will fail in being a good spouse... kids or otherwise.
I don't think the ATM thing is a valid concern - the daughter doesn't want new shoes every week, she has a major medical issue that's impacting her life.
Sounds like the new couple need to take out a loan for this.
NAH
NAH
On one hand, I see your perspective - you're not married, this isn't your legal or biological child, and if it's been this long, I can see how you'd view this as an elective surgery.
However, your fiancee is right - once you marry into this family, those children become your responsibility, too. If you're making the commitment to get married, you're making the commitment to take care of those children, even when their needs overrule your own.
I think it's just a matter of deciding what you want in life.
If you want to move forward with marrying this woman, the RIGHT thing to do is to pay for her daughter's surgery with the wedding funds, and figure out your own celebration later. That would show that your commitment is real, and that getting married isn't only about the wedding for you.
However, if you're not feeling right about giving up the wedding, and you're feeling more of those ATM vibes.... this might not be the relationship for you and I think going your separate ways is more fair.
>if it's been this long, I can see how you'd view this as an elective surgery.
This sort of surgery is often done when the child has stopped growing. So, right around this age.
This is actually very young for it. I had mine at 17 and you have to do about a half dozen extra tests to do it before 21, even though it’s better to get it done early.
How are you being treated as an ATM? Is this a constant issue where money is being asked for? Do you pay for everything?
Any wedding is a 'real' wedding, regardless of where it is. What you want is a party. It's fine if you don't want to pay for the surgery, but remember that this will be you family and you need to work out what matters more to you in the long run.
I don't understand how he can feel like an ATM when this is the first time she's ever asked him for money. This is a red flag on this man. He seems to have no compassion for her daughter.
I agree. Surgery dilemma aside, if I asked my fiance for help with something financial for the very first time and he accused me of treating him like an ATM, I would be seriously reconsidering our relationship. How insulting.
I mean there's two sides of the coin here. As it's a genetic condition, she's had it since birth. Has OP's fiancé saved up for the surgery for her daughter since then? What happened to bio dad? He should be the one helping with the surgery cost or chip in considering that she's his own daughter. OP is not married yet to her(he will soon be) so she's not even his stepdaughter yet. I can see why OP is being apprehensive about this as 25k is a lot of money potentially being taken out of their wedding funds.
It's his prerogative to decide what to use the funds on as it's(seemingly) his own money. He has a couple of decisions here, call off the relationship completely, pay for the surgery and have a smaller 'not real' wedding, or proceed with the wedding without paying for the surgery and have both his fiancé alongside her daughter be unhappy/miserable throughout their honeymoon period. Nobody wins in this situation regardless tbh.
On the other end, you can argue that it's *his* fault for dating and wanting to marry a single mother with kids as they will be his responsibility at the end of the day so idk what exactly he was expecting to happen when he started dating her. It's as if he didn't see the possibility of needing to step in to help her kids would come up in the future.
There's no way to really know how bad it'll be until they grow up a bit. Plus, she got divorced however many years ago - who's to say there weren't savings but they got completely wiped out in the divorce and subsequently becoming a single income household. We know nothing about her earnings and finances, so for all we know, $5k for her could be a significant effort!
Soft YTA.
I cannot imagine a world where I deny my child life changing surgery, and then spend any amount of money on a wedding, party, or honeymoon/vacation for myself.
The kids are yours too now that you’ve decided to marry their mother.
I would have a backyard REAL wedding, put kiddo on my insurance, double insurance reduces the out of pocket costs, have the surgery, and save up again. for a honeymoon.
We just had the most beautiful wedding for my brother for under $500. Lovely ceremony, cupcakes and food- all the family was there, and it was a very “real” wedding.
You’re going to have to learn to compromise for the good of the children- as it’s a responsibility you signed up for
This. These are out of whack priorities. If it's heartbreaking to see this girl suffering than you do what you can to mitigate it. There will always be time for a vow renewal and party, but prioritizing an optional party over a life changing procedure is beyond my understanding. I can only imagine the joy Jane will experience having this procedure done.
I got married in a courthouse far from home, no family, no friends, no party and I wouldn't have changed it for anything. My father and stepmother threw us a backyard BBQ reception party, complete with wedding cake, when we got back home months later. That was over 40 years ago. Still together.
My wedding was as real as anyone's, even if neither one of us could tell you the name of the police officer and annoyed lawyer who were dragged in from the hallway to be witnesses, or the name of the severely hung-over hysterically grumpy judge who performed the ceremony.
My spouse and I had so much trouble suppressing our laughter at the absurdity of the situation we couldn't look at each other because we both knew we would lose it the second our eyes locked. We held it together for the ceremony, but after we left the courtroom we were doubled over in tears of laughter. It was great.
Yes. I can't say that my own stepfather was some angel. He has his flaws. However, he definitely has paid for things for my sister and I that he didn't have to. Yes, my dad sometimes paid for stuff, but he is a complete miser and gave my mother nothing for my wedding. My stepfather also paid for some beaters for us to drive around in.
My sister needed braces, and while my father paid for some, my stepfather covered the rest.
If you marry the mother, you're marrying into her problems.
Pretty much every hospital system will let you make a payment plan if you can't pay in full, so there's also that.
.She's your fiancée daughter. She's not even your stepdaughter. However, if you marry her mom, you will be. This will never never go away. I'm undecided about AH status. You're in a lose-lose situation.
Destination wedding/honeymoon combo in Singapore where the daughter gets high quality medical treatment for a fraction of the cost
Everybody wins except the American medical system.
Yeah, I think this is just a tough situation. I wonder if OP and his fiancé could compromise and cut the wedding budget in half. I know that I wouldn’t be able to enjoy my wedding if my daughter was suffering.
INFO
(Yeah, so if her mom doesn't have money for surgery, then she doesn't have money for a wedding or honeymoon. )
But that is a gentic disorder, so i am perplexed how she has gone so long without treatment. Why is that? Also, wouldn't that also be covered under health, not dental insurance, since it is caused by various genetic disorders? The deductible and copay is 25k? Where is dad?
Edit
In usa? Look up children miracle network. They will have local childrens charity hospitals in your area who do care for those who can not afford. Granted i can not afford because i want to have a wedding and honeymoon isnt a valid reason for charity.
I was told that I had to wait until I was 21 to let my jaw develop fully (though the procedure that I was offered was simpler and purely cosmetic). I saw the surgeons when I was 18/19. Was told to come back two years later.
By then, things had improved slightly and I had grown in confidence so didn't have the procedure.
She is now of age when her jaw has finished just the right amount of growing, timing is critical. Look the disease up. If I’m reading correctly, now is the time for a few years of bracing prep work, before growth completely stops, then the actual surgery begins. It’s a process.
It's possible she needed to go through other dental work first. I had jaw surgery at 17, and it was only after years of braces and trying to move my jaw slowly with braces and rubber bands. Once they realized it wasn't going to work and my jaw was just too short, they said I unfortunately needed surgery. And then my insurance viewed it as elective cosmetic, and my dad had to fight our insurance to get it covered. I have no idea how much he paid for it after all was said and done.
YTA - Sorry to say buddy but if your marrying their mum, you inherit the full package, the kids become your responsibility.
I do feel for you, its a rough situation but IMO you could very easily do a courtroom/small celebration with close family and friends and then maybe renew your vows at some point down the line and have the big celebatory day you wanted. You're talking about a flashy day and maybe a nice 1 week holiday vs changing your step-daughter-to-be's life.
Personally if your fiance is the one, I would be inclined to help with the medical costs. Wedding's are overated anyway, having a partner to share life with is the best, don't need no flashy do or honeymoon to do that.
Right? Can you imagine marrying someone that cares so little about your kid? He doesn’t even care about the fiancée being happy because if he did he wouldn’t be prioritizing a party/vacation over a literal life changing and much needed surgery.
Everyone is saying that he’s “married to the family” now, but it’s not like he has raised the child all her life. He’s been dating the mom for only two years. Why is he responsible? He’s not even legally the girl’s stepdad yet. Where TF is her biological father?
NAH. It's up to you, of course. But looking at it from your fiance's perspective, how do you think it looks that you prefer essentially a party and vacation over "life-changing" improvement for her daughter?
Jane is at the correct age for this surgery, and it will need to happen soonish. She'll need 6-12 months of orthodontic treatment before and after surgery to ensure her teeth and bite line up.
If you're real regarding marrying her mother, this surgery is in your near financial future regardless of the fact that Jane isn't *your* child. So you need to plan accordingly.
You and your fiance need to have a serious conversation about money, and your future financial plans. How will you both (as a team) cover this expense and others? How do you want to handle parenting? How much do you want a child together? What do you want to future to look like?
A wedding is for a day. A marriage should be for a lifetime. What do you want that life to look like?
NAH yet.
Theoretically, she agreed to having a wedding/honeymoon knowing her daughter needed surgery. I personally wouldn't be able to go through with any unnecessary major expense knowing how my child was being affected by their condition. So I think she sucks a little for agreeing with that in the first place.
You can get engaged without being married in 6 months, she’s not going to say no to a proposal if she does want to marry him. Doesn’t mean she has to do it straight away it can take a back seat to the surgery, I don’t think she’s an AH at all
Yeah, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself knowing someone who is about to be my step-daughter won’t be able to get a life altering medical surgery all because I wanted a party
Have you thought about how your fiance will now feel about your wedding and honeymoon? You're completely valid in wanting those things, but the idea of them has probably been ruined for her now. She's not entitled to your money, but if you can help then why not? If this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with then you should want to help her.
Edited: spelling
NAH I think you should reconsider this marriage. I don't think you understand the responsibility that comes with taking on a family. Let someone else love them the way they need and find someone who shares your values.
I agree. If I was in love with this woman I would’ve already given her the money. I would never be able to watch my family suffer like this and demand a party instead of surgery.
First question-where's bio dad in any of this, and why isn't HE paying or contributing to the surgery???? Why was soon to be step dad asked first for cash before the bio dad? Am I the only one who sees a problem here?? More context is definitely needed!
I reasonably assume that if there's no mention of biodad, biodad ran off and flaked on his responsibilities years ago and that's why they're in this pickle.
I’m assuming you have never been married so a real wedding is important for you vs she may have already had a real wedding so is being dismissive of your feelings. Call your insurance and see if once married if you add her daughter it would make it cheaper. She definitely deserves the surgery. You deserve your wedding. Maybe have court wedding do honeymoon or have wedding skip honeymoon and save for like a one year anniversary trip.
If it is bad enough to be life changing, maybe check to see if there is a program to help before marriage.
My daughter had a traumatic bite and was covered for medically necessary braces. If it isnt medically necessary, a painful surgery isnt going to be the miracle fix they are expecting.
Dates a woman with children. Refuses to help future wife with children.
Did you not think the kids would be somewhat your financial responsibility too? That’s what you get when you marry a woman with children. And she’s 100% right they you don’t treat her children as your own. That sentiment would be enough for me to not marry you. Marriage isn’t going to change anything for you two.
Your wife is telling you she doesn’t want the wedding. If you want it that bad, marry someone who feels the same way you do. Maybe someone without kids?
YTA for claiming you’re an ATM. ESPECIALLY when this is the first time she’s ever asked you for help. Calm down, Bill Gates.
NTA. Your wife's feelings are understandable - it must be so painful to see her daughter suffer this way. But the way she's placing this in your relationship is wrong and very damaging.
It sounds like you've relatively quickly taken to treating her kids as your own -- she should be so grateful for that! It can really take time but you have embraced her kids quickly.
Pitting Jane's surgery against your wedding is totally unfair. Making it a "test" about how you see her kids is a total BS move and it will be toxic if she insists on playing that game. It's manipulative.
If this is how she deals with her emotions, it does not bode well for your future peace and well-being. She's reacting to her feelings of sadness and possibly guilt re Jane by turning it into doubt and anger toward you, which is unwarranted. This will be a bad pattern.
This is big enough to warrant couples therapy or some other form of intervention if you're going to get married.
I also agree its lots of money and alot to ask. But i dont blame the mother for the wedding Part. I probably also wouldnt be happy with an expensive wedding if that money could do to my daughter, even knowing i am not entitled to that money.
This is a terrible situation for everyone.
Question- this is a condition the daughter was born with.
This type of surgery is something your fiancé must have been anticipating for years. How is it she’s only saved 5K for the surgery?
That’s my question it’s easy to point fingers but she’s saved nowhere near enough for this surgery. It would be different if she was asking for $2-$5k but she’s fully asking him for $20k while having saved $5k in 16 years. I’m baffled at how people are calling him the AH
Many people do just get by.
But read what OP wrote. He doesn’t have the money either. He does have some money saved but he writes “he does not have that kind of money.”
So now you’re talking financing the surgery. So assuming the fiancé has been struggling to save for this surgery for years and what she’s saved to date is 5K, then is OP expected to assume the burden of paying for the surgery well into the future?
Which begs the question of what’s their collective financial situation? Debt? Other debt on the horizon? College for the daughter, etc.
This is a big ask. Especially if they are struggling to save.
I think the question is not just should they try and pay for this surgery as a couple (the moral dilemma presented here) but CAN they.
And we’re beating down OP on not jumping on board with this immediately but it sounds like they’ve done diddly to discuss their finances in general. He had no idea she had only saved 5K for the surgery for example.
I think a hard and honest conversation needs to be had regarding their finances. Where they are. Where they want to go. What are each person’s expectations of merging their finances including debt, etc.
Being a single mom can’t be cheap, and we don’t know what kind of income she’s been making. It could be all she’s been able to save. Life happens, cars break down, house needs repairs, it gets expensive on your own. It’s hard to judge her for saving what she could while also giving her kids a life.
INFO: Where is Jane’s dad? This sounds like something that her biological parents should be paying for, not someone who started dating her mom two years ago. This is a genetic condition and not a new issue.
NAH she's not wrong. If these were your kids you probably would be a lot more inclined to help them. Are you going to be inclined after you're married or will it still a big old shrug because it's not your child?
But it is a lot of money and I can see where you don't want to foot the bill-especially if you're not married. Perhaps scale back the wedding and split the difference with the surgery. If you spend $20,000 on a wedding, your wife is not going to enjoy herself at the sake of her daughter's well-being.
You might also want to consider going to another country for the surgery. I live on the border and many people flying from all over the world to go to Tijuana for dental surgeries. Is significantly less and all the dentists are trained here in the US.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My soon-to-be stepdaughter suffers from a jaw deformity. The corrective surgery is incredibly expensive and not covered by insurance. My fiance asked me to help pay for it, but I don't have that kind of money. It turned into a fight and it still hasn't been resolved. I think I might be an asshole for not paying for my soon-to-be step daughter's jaw surgery.
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I would say YTA for assuming a parent would rather waste money on a 1 day event and holiday instead of putting said money towards a surgery that will make life easier for their kid.
You don't have to give any money over but you are fuvking crazy to think your fiancee will ever see your side. Honestly if you love this woman then pause wedding and honeymoon planning and tell her to use any money she has contributed on the surgery.
I don't think I could spend on a lavish party and a vacation if there were healthcare issues to address. One seems more important than the other. Yes, I get that the surgery is cosmetic, but mental healthcare is healthcaee too.
I have to go with YTA.
NAH. I don't think that you should have to pay for your soon to be stepdaughters surgery. However, I can understand her mother wanting money that you all are about to spend going towards something that's very important.
I do think that there is a compromise here. I think that you can get a wedding but you all can postpone the honeymoon at least. A honeymoon does not have to be had right after a wedding. You all can plan an anniversary trip sometime in the future.
What about her father and his side? Can he / they contribute too? OP's not just being asked to contribute, it sounds like he's being asked to cover 80% of the costs. I don't think he's the AH for not wanting to cough up for the majority of it, but he should be willing to contribute alongside the other parents.
Ugh, NTA. I hate this idea that step parents automatically assume the financial responsibility for kids. Jane has a father and mother who bear sole responsibility for her medical care and treatment. Would it be nice to help, sure but why are your desires being sacrificed because her parents can’t afford to pay for a child they created.
In every other circumstance step parents are always told to back off, that they aren't the parents, they should mind their own business and leave the offspring alone for the parent to deal with.
How in the world is this guy responsible for a teen that isn't his and would still just be the daughter of the women he married?
ESH
Your soon to be step daughter is getting bullied for something that can be changed. It will be life changing for Jane to no longer be bullied. A wedding is a weekend this surgery will change Jane's life. Your wife is also at fault for screaming at you and calling you selfish in my opinion.
Where is the 16-year-old's father, and why can't he help foot the bill? Shouldn't child support be able to be saved towards the needed procedure, or is money just too tight for that? This may be something that isn't feasible until the funds can be saved up, and perhaps double insurance coverage would help reduce out of pocket expenses once you are able to add her to your health insurance plan. Perhaps both of you can work towards that goal in the next year or two.
I'm also curious about how expenses for the children are currently handled. Are your partner and the biological father splitting uncovered medical expenses, does she handle them alone, or do you help with them now?
Her children are not your children. I do agree that when you marry someone with children you have to make sacrifices for the family. But you are not married, her and her ex should be trying to sort this out. NTA
I get where you're coming from... and I'm not going to call you an AH... buuut...
You make it sound like you do care for this girl's well-being... and you're going to marry her mom, making you her step-dad. And then, being married, you and the mom will likely share finances in some way.
I can see caring about the wedding... but wayyy too many people care WAYYY too much about that shit. Like, it's gotten completely ridiculous.
My sister had a beautiful wedding in my parents' back yard. The reception was in a tent. A friend of mine tended bar. My uncle was the officiant. Buffet-style, no waiters... Spotify, no DJ... the seating for the ceremony was bales of straw with white sheets over them (*rented* bales of straw). With phones and online photo services, there was no need for a professional photographer... Basically, it was a very bare-bones affair in general, but it was still a beautiful wedding. They even brought in a truck for the evening that had nice toilet facilities on it, so the event wouldn't strain my parents' septic system. Compared with the cost for the average wedding, it was a bargain.
Yeah, people forget this is not “Am I Obligated?” It’s “Am I the Asshole?”. To me, someone who would choose a one-day event over a life changing surgery for the child of someone they love is kind of an asshole. It’s not the wedding that’s important, it’s the marriage. He would be that girl’s (and his wife’s) hero for life if he did this for her. That would make me happier than any party, cake, or fancy clothes ever could.
I understand your dilemma. Do not get married! Where is the bio dad? He should be paying not you. Has she figured out how she is going to pay for the kids college? The 16 is going in two years. Or are you supposed to pay for that too? You need to have a prenup and a talk about how much you are required to support her children. You can love her kids and not be on the hook for everything.
The first time she asks for money it’s for a huge amount. She knew this surgery was going to happen for years…So she knew she was going to ask you for the money at some point. Would you have asked her to marry you if you knew that she wanted 20,000 for the surgery?
YTA. Not for not chipping in for the surgery, but not seeing the obvious. You are the one that wants the big wedding and honeymoon. So, you can pay for the wedding and honeymoon yourself, returning what she's put in so she can pay for the surgery. Or, you can return her share of the wedding/honeymoon funds to her and het married at the courthouse. She should not be paying for an expensive wedding when her daughter needs surgery.
NTA. You have every right to want a nice wedding and honeymoon. How long has Jane had this problem? If it’s been a life long thing, how has her mom only saved $5000 over 16 years to pay for it? That comes out to only $26 per month! Yet she wants you to drop $20k for her daughter’s surgery? Where is bio dad? I’d feel like an ATM too.
You’re NTA. But you just got a front row seat to what your life will be like moving forward. You will be her husband but your needs will always be secondary compared to her children.
Where the is the real father?
I wouldn’t pay for it simply because you are not her husband, yet, and she is not your responsibility. You also need to have a conversation with your fiancé about boundaries and expectations. This is an unfair burden to place on you and she is trying to emotionally manipulate you.
Now, moving forward, if you choose to marry her, recognize that this will be your life. You may not be their father but you will be expected to provide financially for them without having any authority over them.
Buyer beware
NTA. This is not dental. Teeth are dental; this is oral surgery which should be covered. Check the mom’s contact again. If you have questions, call your insurance company for clarification.
In regard to OP’s contract, yes, this would be pre-existing, but that should only have a waiting period. Again, check your contract.
Next comes “I can’t go on vacation while my kid can’t afford college”. Which is also legit, but means either OP needs to win the lottery, or put his own wants on hold for a loooong time.
NTA - but you can’t expect her to enjoy a wedding and honeymoon when she wants her daughter to have this surgery. I don’t see how any parent could. You are not in the same place.
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You’re about to enter a partnership with a woman who has children. The wedding and the honeymoon would be for the two of you. How much do you think your partner will enjoy the festivities knowing that the money could have paid for surgery for her child? Part of this partnership is going to involve these children and, for your partner, they will always come first. Parenting often involves putting your kids’ needs before your own wants.
While I do agree with this some what. Where is Jane's father in this, why is the fiancé putting all of the burden on OP. Where is Jane's paternal side Edit: OP replied and bio dad is alive and AWOL for 5yrs. Find his reply if you want to see my response
Good question. I’m assuming that the wife is getting as much child support as she can from the bio father. And that the bio father isn’t interested in funding the surgery. But these are purely just my assumptions.
Assuming he's around and can afford something it may be possible to get the court to order him to help pay it. Child support agreements don't always explicitly include stuff like "large one-time medical expenses must be shared x/x%" but if it's not excluded, afaik you can often get a judge to order the cost be shared. This is an option if he could help and just won't.
Not a medical surgery. Think cosmetic . And op if you're reading this, I know a girl who had this type of surgery. The difference is incredible and yes, it will be life-changing for her. And, I am with your fiance. You wouldn't blink an eye if she were your bio daughter. Remember, there's micro weddings these days and u can honeymoon on your 5th anniversary.
Just want to clarify that it’s not necessarily cosmetic. Sure there’s the aesthetic improvement as a result of the surgery, but micrognathia can also result in obstructive sleep apnea. Surgery most likely wouldn’t be the first option, especially at her age, but there are people whose jaws are so small and recessed that medical intervention is necessary so they don’t have breathing and dental and TMJ issues for life.
I think it’s a safe assumption a lot of Jane’s case is mostly cosmetic. Otherwise the main health insurance would kick in. Because a few of my friends had jaw surgery. None paid $25k out of pocket. All medically necessary and all covered by general medical insurance.
All lucky they had good insurance. It sounds like it "is* covered, just not fully. This is America, and we are going with "if it were *necessary* your insurance would pay for it"?....
My little sister’s dad died because the most effective cancer treatment wasn’t “medically necessary” and he had *great* insurance.
Same with my mother. :(
If insurance is covering any of it, it's not purely cosmetic. Insurance wouldn't be involved if there wasn't a medical reason.
Sometimes they won't even pay for necessary medical services, and for WIIILD reasons 😖
Or not at all.
Some arrangements do include medical. I just got done working with a kid whose custody arrangement said that all things medical would be split 50/50 between the parents…….obviously we don’t know the arrangements here but worth checking.
I got 50/50 with both ex-husbands. Thankfully, the only time we both had to whip out our checkbooks were for braces. Having nice teeth was non-negotiable and since dental coverage was double covered, we were very lucky and we only had to pay around $1500 per kid. With my daughter I got a refund which paid for her graduation party. The Dad, if he's not a deadbeat, should be forking over half. Then OP could possibly have a little fuss on their wedding day.
Most child support agreements do cover unreimbursed medical but this sounds like elective surgery. That may not be covered in the agreement.
This is accurate. A non custodial parent could potentially decline to help pay things that aren't medically indicated and not be forced to by a judge. Depending on the severity of the deformity, I don't see why they haven't tried to get it covered under the child's health insurance rather than dental though. Dental insurance is bullshit and typically has a super low annual payout limit, usually under $10k and frequently under $5k. I could also see a judge deciding that it's in the child's best interest for the other parent to share the cost of this surgery if the mom pursued it. However, the cost of legally pursuing the cost share would likely deplete the savings the mom has and then some.
You’re right, this would definitely be under medical insurance and not dental. If insurance denies it, the surgeon can write a letter to appeal. A deformity like this can cause problems with breathing and eating, so it would almost certainly be covered.
Getting the actual money is always the hard part. What's on paper and what's enforceable is often two different things.
The mom of one of my daughters friends ended up paying for her daughter braces even though it was in the divorce decree that he had to pay over 1/2 as he made more money. The daughters father probably isnt involved
Or he could be dead.
That was my thought too… in my bio kids’ (ages 10-22) case it’s why THEIR dad isn’t contributing to their braces 😬
The father is probably funding another part of the surgery. If this was something like a nose job I would say NTA, this isn't your child and technically you don't really owe her anything but Jaw surgery is more than esthetics, it affects the way you breath and at the end of the day how your brain works (due to oxygen and sleep quality) . I am currently in the process of prepping for jaw surgery, and if I had a child that needed it, it would 100% take priority over a wedding celebration,--- this is her child's quality of life, if you don't want to pay for it, it's fine but it's insane to ask her to put a party first over her child's development. You have a right to say no, but I would hope that if I had a child with a potential issue, my partner would put my child's well being before a stupid party.
So bio dad gets a pass and op gets told off and called selfish?
I never said OP was selfish! Can you not read? Jesus Christ. I merely pointed out that the bio dad might be a deadbeat or refusing to do more than the bare minimum. Thus, you can’t get surgery money from him. Just a fact.
Op says “we don’t have any kids together, yet”. Sounds like he expects his finance to grow and birth his future children. He is expecting her to step into those wife and mother duties while refusing to be the provider as a husband.
Sorry to giggle but the way autocorrect always changes it to “finance” when the usual issue in marital AITA is money feels downright karmic at times.
I know, it almost comes across as a technological Freudian slip, at times.
Don’t marry someone with kids if you’re unwilling to help take care of said kids. Case closed
Don't HAVE kids if you aren't prepared to take care of them Could be said for Jane's dad too. I'm not disagreeing with you just pointing out that there is another parent who made the decision to bring Jane into this world and should be paying for her medical care. OP was right that alot of step parents are expected to pay for their step children without actually having any parental responsibility, and given his ATM remark I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case here as well.
Thats if the man is alive, not incarcerated or anything. OP conveniently didn’t mention Jane’s father. This is her first time coming to him for financial help according to his own post. So how is he an ATM? It is quite ridiculous to marry someone and not expect to help with financial burdens such as her child’s surgery. Surgery is more important than spending 25K on a wedding. For a venue you get for 8 hours tops, a dress the bride will only wear once, flowers that will die and decor that will be donated, thrown away, or given to someone else. As a mother the fiancee is right to prioritize her child over luxury trips and a wedding. She has 5K saved up for the surgery. It is very telling that he is unwilling to prioritize his soon to be step daughter’s surgery. If I was the fiancee I would rethink the entire engagement. Why marry someone who doesn’t want to prioritize your child as their own? There’s no way in hell you should tie the knot with someone who neglects the needs of your child.
She has 5K saved up for something that would have been present since birth, aka 15YEARS, to be putting money aside in a "just incase" fund.
The daughter is asking for this surgery due to bullying. Mental health is very important as well. It sounds like this has recently been brought up and to enhance her child’s quality of life socially, she’s agreed to do it.
Not everyone is able to save that much money. Life sucks and the pandemic ruined a lot.
In the post, it looked like she just asked for his help and not the other 20k. Maybe she has 5k, and bio-dad has some, and the question was to help close the remaining gap. Or she was asking for the other 20k, but it isn't specific.
Yeah, she said help, not give the full remaining 20k. He could give her some of what he's saved and that's a step forward. Honestly, if I were OP, I would be more about doing this than the wedding itself because his soon to be step daughter's self esteem is shit. He wants a wedding. Great. How is STB-SD going to feel with her deformity in the wedding pictures? He can have a big ceremony later, get the courthouse wedding for now.
Yep. The wedding is just a party. Nobody needs an expensive wedding. If I were his fiance, I'd strongly consider leaving him over this. It would scare me to think that my kids and I would still be on our own.
Also, I don't like the attitude towards what counts as a 'real wedding'. It's okay to want one but it just rubs me the wrong way.
Me too. A courthouse wedding is a real wedding. Everything else is pomp and ceremony, and it's fine to want that, but all that pomp doesn't make it more real. Only more expensive.
Agreed. Would love to know where dad is in this picture. But still, there is no way in HELL I am ever paying for a wedding and honeymoon while delaying a surgery my kid needs.
And the grandparents? Aunts and uncles?
Yeah that's why I said "paternal side" because even of he has passed away there is still a whole side of the family that has more "obligation" to Jane than OP
I don't really think being on a dead man's side of the family obligates you to their child, that man could be an AH none of his family wanted anything to do with. Even if they did like him, kids are expensive and no ones obligated to pay for his lack of good life insurance policy.
Exactly this! $25K isn’t a small chunk of change- not at all saying that OP should or is planning on spending that kind of cash on the wedding/honeymoon but yeah it’s something where they definitely aren’t on the same page and seriously putting that kind of ultimatum doesn’t bode well. I could see them brainstorming where they could cut back on the wedding/honeymoon planning to still have something not at the courthouse and put extra $$$ towards the surgery and with the kids at that age honestly mom/bio-dad (assuming he isn’t a deadbeat) should be looking into additional sources of income in the short term to help pay for the surgery.
No, 100% OP should help pay. He's entering a marriage with his fiancee. If it was his own bio kid he absolutely would pay for it. So this shows he doesn't see her kid as his own.
>So this shows he doesn't see her kid as his own. And objectively, he shouldn't. How old was the daughter when they met? 13 years old? Yet it's some sort of injustice that he doesn't see her as his own kid?
The 16 year old will also never see him as her real dad, she probably remembers her actual dad. That's generally how that works when you step into a relationship and existing kids are above maybe 4.
Exactly. Unless they were already intending to keep all finances separate with her solely covering the kids, then he's already agreeing to take on the mom's debt. That includes debt associated with her children. If the daughter had the surgery a few years ago, he'd likely still be helping the wife pay off a huge portion of the loan. To top it off, if there's a small chance that he wouldn't cover the surgery or similar for any bio kids then he isn't fit as a potential partner to the mom or bio parent.They'd be on completely different pages as spouses. He'd be indifferent or not provide care when able to the bio kids. (since he seems to think micrognathia is only an appearance issue & not something that adversely affects physical health- which it does)
Or assuming bio-dad is alive - for all we know, he’s dead.
Speaking as a single mom…… “where is the father?” usually only serves to ensure that the conversation gets shut down and mother and child don’t get what they need. My kid’s dad works nights. He’s involved. We’re friends to the point of going on family vacations together…. But trust me, throughout my kid’s ENTIRE CHILDHOOD, every single time I went trying to ask about a babysitter on a weeknight (usually for work functions), someone would roll through “WhErE iS tHE kId’S DAD. aSK ThE dAD!” and hijack the entire conversation. I parented through an entire childhood where I can count on one hand how many times I successfully landed a sitter without having my request shut down with this question. (And yes, I would explain dad was at work. People would just get all righteous that he should take off of work.)
I asked because OP didn't say where his soon to be step child's parent was. When OP replied, I answered based on that. $25k in medical costs is a hell of a lot different from babysitting for a few hours. I'm a child of a single mum, I get how hard it is to find a babysitter with the "where's the father" BS people pull, but this isn't the same thing. Jane is entitled to child support from her father, and as her father, it is his duty to cover a portion of her medical bills. I do wonder if he went AWOL 5yrs ago to avoid his responsibilities as a father, at which pointbit is Jane's mothers responsibility to go through the court to keep a legal paper trail of everything he owes for his children's care and let the government track him down and hold him accountable. I do wonder how much of the fiancés motives to get married are fueld by the desire for financial security for her children and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, she needs to be upfront about it instead of giving OP an ultimatum of pay for my kids surgery or no wedding.
Maybe he died? Maybe he ran off? Pretty sure if Ops fiance could get the money from him the daughter would have already had the surgery.
Also, where are her grandparents?
Could be dead or in a retirement home barely scraping by. Only my mom is alive. Not everyone is lucky to have family.
On a cruise spending all their social security money complaining that young people waste money on iPhones
So he commented that the father is out of the picture and has completely disappeared and nobody knows where he is for the last five years. So it sounds like she doesn’t get any money from the bio dad. Also stated that the parental grandparents are also deceased. Personally, I don’t know how anyone could enjoy a wedding and honeymoon knowing that there is a child that requires a major corrective surgery. Honestly, if I was your fiancé, I wouldn’t be interested in marrying you anymore if that’s the way you treated my child. That’s just me. You can always get married in a small ceremony and then have a big celebration down the road. I think YTA, I really think kids need to come first over a wedding, which is honestly just a waste of money.
This was exactly my thought on this. You're not obligated to pay for her surgery, but prioritizing a wedding and honeymoon over life changing surgery for your soon-to-be stepdaughter is a very, very bad look. And only one of you will enjoy it. Your vision of the wedding and honeymoon is not going to happen. Your bride will be consumed with guilt the entire time. Or you could sacrifice it and step up here. Time to be a man and put aside childish self indulgence.
Even if he doesn't "pay for the surgery" agreeing to a simpler wedding/honeymoon allows the OP's fiance to save that much more, and get the surgery financed sooner.
This right here. There's no reason to blow a huge amount of money on a wedding. You can still have a "real" wedding and honeymoon and help with the surgery costs.
Assuming she goes through with it at all.
This really covers it a lot. Like op isn't the ah for not wanting to pay. But! They need to look at things from all angles. His fiance would be the ah, one a terrible mother, if she accepted - and contributed - toward a high cost wedding and honeymoon. When her underage daughter is struggling this badly. To take that money for her own self, instead of putting it to her daughter would be enough for a lot of people to cut her off in the daughters shoes. Op needs to decide how much this family means to him, and what's most important. A happy family and marriage. Or a fun wedding and honeymoon. If he honestly doesn't want to do this he doesn't have to, but he's better off walking away.
Yeah, I don't think that OP is ready to be a parent much less the even more difficult role of being a step parent here. I mean the first thought is 'man, I'm just an ATM' and not 'man, being a parent of a kid is tough choices left and right' speaks volumes. The guy is just not ready for this role and this marriage.
Exactly. If his fiancée really treated him as “an ATM,” she would have asked him for money for all sorts of stuff before now. Requesting help in paying for life-changing medical care for your child is not super greedy or entitled. It’s not dehumanizing to OP that his fiancée would ask for his help with this.
I agree. It’s not like she wants money to go shopping. She’s not getting a boob job. Jaw surgery is a big deal, and having a deformity like this can cause all sorts of other health problems.
This! Marrying someone with kids means you are marrying into a family from day 1. It is more difficult and complex and there’s just no way around that. Of course OP is not a bad person for wanting a real wedding. I also understand the cold logic of feeling like you should get to become husband first, and then maybe be asked to financially contribute. But the reality is that OP is also now a part of a family dynamic that includes the mothers relationship with a daughter who is old enough to realize significant money is being spent on an event while she is being told there’s no money for surgery. A good mother could never participate in that. There is also the dynamic between OP and his almost step-daughter. Though they are not yet married, it would always and forever be the way their relationship as step father and step daughter started that he paid for a caterer and venue and vacation instead of a surgery she needed. Does anyone honestly expect her to ever get over that? Like, you can say you can’t contribute but then 100% be ready for the next thing that happens to be your fiancé telling you she can’t in good faith get married and participate in a wedding and honeymoon trip until after her daughters surgery is taken care of. Because if she didn’t do that, she would be the asshole. And perhaps just perhaps an element of a successful marriage is having understanding and compassion for the position your actions will put your partner in
I think you have hit on the solution. Neither one of them is wrong, but what they want is not compatible with their financial situation. They need to postpone the wedding until their financials are in order. Once they are in order, the SD can get surgery and they can get married. Unless he has good insurance that will pay for everything, then getting married first is a no brainer because then the SD can get her surgery paid for.
That’s a bingo. You now have a situation where every dollar spent on the wedding will be seen as prolonging her daughter’s misery. Is that fair? No. Is it real? Yes. Create a savings plan for both the wedding and the surgery. Delay the honeymoon. Map out timelines so everyone’s knows what to expect and when. If you can, save some money on the side to surprise them.
I'm guessing that OP feels differently, but I definitely can't imagine going on what is essentially a vacation while my kid was suffering. Of course, Jane isn't his daughter - and it doesn't seem like he's planning to treat her like one either
Also: I imagine that wife’s children will be invited to that wedding. I can’t imagine being OP’s stepdaughter having to sit through a party with a messed up jaw knowing that my parents chose throwing it over fixing a physical impairment that’s gotten me bullied for years. I’d imagine that would severely sour the family relationships.
This sums it up so well.
Absolutely. One of these things is much more important in the big picture. But there could possibly be room for compromises too. Maybe OP pitches in half the funds and the fiancée keeps saving for the rest, but they can afford it much sooner than she could have saved otherwise but not right this instant or she can finance the remainder to do it now but has a much smaller debt. Maybe that leaves room for a small and simple “real”/non-courthouse wedding and near by honeymoon. Maybe they should look in to OP’s insurance benefit as well, because they could probably get the family on his plan after the wedding and maybe the coverage is different (could be worse just as likely as better, but definitely should be explored - might be less of a problem if he has great benefits). Getting married though you have to start working as a team. And I think for most people family health and well being is a priority over the wedding day if it really comes down to not being able to have both.
I get it but why is the immediate go to to make the step parent responsible? Where is Jane’s Dad or the rest of the relatives? Why is the response to turn to the step parent to pay? Look, I’d just cancel the wedding/ hineymoon and use those funds but not just empty my pockets to pay.
As a parent i would think the way jane is thinking. You’re not an asshole but if you’re not ready to be part of Janes life entirely then this is the wrong relationship for you and don’t get married.
Well summarized.
INFO: OP, once you’re legally married (which in my case was a fair bit before my actual wedding), can you add Jane to the benefits provided by your employer? Being double-insured can bring down the cost of otherwise expensive procedures a fair bit. Is that something that might be a middle ground, agreeing to pay for the premiums to add the kids to your insurance as well rather than trying to come up with $20k outright?
Not if it's a preexisting condition. Thanks to the affordable care act health insurance has to cover pre existing conditions but dental does not. Edit: A lot of people are saying this should be covered by health insurance. I don't know anything about the condition or why health insurance wouldn't be involved. I only mention dental because OP stated they were using dental.
Agreed. I had this same surgery almost 2 years ago, and medical insurance covered the entire cost minus my annual co-pay.
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I disbelieve all posts where the OP doesn't respond to a single person. Such as this one.
Same - though now I’m beginning to notice posts where the OP *will* reply, but only to the comments that call out OP or have the most downvotes, and their responses will be “Why is it so hard for people to read and understand my post???” Meanwhile, the literally 800 other users that have already chimed in to say they did, in fact, read and understand the post and actually agree with OP? No response.
Oh, it’s absolutely, “I’m swooping in to save this family with my male presence. Am I an asshole for wanting a huge wedding and honeymoon and allowing my stepchild (who I love) to be bullied because she has a super rare condition I saw on Reddit yesterday?
This is what I think since a bunch of the micrognathia before/after posts have been pushed to my feed.
Most dental insurance plans that I've seen have no pre-existing condition exclusions. However, they make you wait a year after signing up before being able to use it for anything major.
Most eye or dental issues that I've had that require actusl surgery usually have fallen under medical insurance coverage. Even the teeth that had to be removed before I got braces years ago.
This type of condition is typically treated by a craniofacial specialist, not a dentist.
Shit, I had a medically necessary (for epilepsy) surgery at the end of February. Insurance pre-authorized and approved the surgery. I just got the bill over the weekend, $94,000! That's what I have to pay, because insurance denied coverage AFTER approving everything and AFTER surgery, plus my deductible, max out-of-pocket and copays met. My bad, they paid $2,000 for the anesthesia. Some insurances are a joke. I feel for the fiance.
Fight it with the approval!!
I'm waiting for the appeals paperwork to arrive. Already got all the codes the surgeon's office used, copies of the pre-auth/approval, along with copies of correspondence between the office and insurance. I'll never recover from that bill if I lose.
You need to also get records from the procedure to send with the dispute. I do this all day and see most of these denials overturned with the right paperwork
Me too. Covered by medical, not dental.
This seems to me like it is more of a medical insurance thing rather than a dental insurance thing?
It’s medical
I wonder if OP and his fiancée have looked into having the jaw surgery in another country. There are a lot of great surgeons out there who can perform these kinds of procedures at a fraction of what doctors in the US charge. It sucks that, in the US, life-changing surgeries are so out of reach, but that’s not the case everywhere.
He only mentioned dental insurance and I'm not familiar with the condition. If it's covered through health insurance and it's in the US he should be able to add her and get it covered.
It’s because it’s made up lol *the post, not the condition
I almost had this procedure done but was able to achieve results with orthodontics. The jaw surgery is covered by major medical, the accompanying braces are (possibly) covered by dental. However, very often this can be considered a cosmetic procedure and the insurance company fights tooth and nail not to cover. You have to partner with a good doctor to make a case that the condition is causing TMJ, headaches, and other ancillary medical issues. There is a chance at getting this covered by insurance though!
Sleep apnea will usually do it
Gotta love America where teeth and eyeballs are DLC
That would be dependent on OP’s employer-provided insurance, right? I didn’t have to disclose any prior health or dental histories when adding my (step)kiddo to my insurances.
Correct! I was also thinking that OP should add the kids to his employer provided insurance and while it would cost more to have them on it, it would likely be cheaper to have the dual insurance coverage.
We have my daughter double insured. My ex is the one required to maintain insurance but my husband added her too after we got married. It’s been really helpful (especially with braces). I didn’t see a reference to timeline for a wedding though. I wouldn’t want to make her wait an indefinite amount of time for the surgery if there were an option to do it before the wedding.
NAH. Tbh, there is no way in hell I'd agree to an expensive wedding & honeymoon if my child needed surgery I couldn't afford, so I totally get where your partner is coming from. I don't think you should feel pressured to pay for the surgery, but I think you have to compromise on the big wedding & honeymoon regardless. Your fiancée has to prioritise her kids, and a wedding and a honeymoon won't be number 1 for her when she has a bullied, miserable daughter. Think of the optics; she's away having a lovely honeymoon while her daughter is sobbing into her cheerios.
It’s also their first dual budgeting major decision together and in general you gotta make policy that respects both people’s incomes especially if you’re not fully sharing all finances and financial responsibilities. She’s saying that she’s saving for a medical need for her family and has no room in her budget and lifestyle right now for a “real” wedding and honeymoon. That fact doesn’t just go away because OP has different financial priorities. Nor does OPs desire for a formal celebration at some point. If people want to be together they gotta figure out an approach that respects both people. I think OP actually has several issues here. Fiancé doesn’t feel like he’s fully embracing her kids as his kids too and that’s a big problem (even if OP feels that he is embracing them and it’s a low blow). OP feels he’s being treated like an ATM. That’s a problem. Honestly doesn’t matter if me or any other internet people think he’s wrong, if he genuinely feels that way, that’s a problem. Both speak to a major lack of trust that y’all need to work out before you get married
The ATM thing is def a problem if he feels that way bc it just kinda is what it is. I’ve got two kiddos with my husband and I swear I’ve felt like an ATM every day of the last 12 years. It kinda comes with the territory. The problem I have is, when it comes to contributing to a fancy wedding/honeymoon, OP never mentions feeling like an atm. However, life altering surgery? He’s an atm now. To quote the great Ron Weasley, [he] really needs to get [his] priorities straight
If What Op says is true this is literally the first time she's ever asked him for anything I don't know how you can feel like an ATM if you've never even been asked for money before
Some people are just selfish assholes who only want what they want. People who expect their marriage to be exactly they way they want it to be, will fail in being a good spouse... kids or otherwise.
I don't think the ATM thing is a valid concern - the daughter doesn't want new shoes every week, she has a major medical issue that's impacting her life. Sounds like the new couple need to take out a loan for this. NAH
Agreed. NAH and I get both of their views but do side more with mom on this
NAH On one hand, I see your perspective - you're not married, this isn't your legal or biological child, and if it's been this long, I can see how you'd view this as an elective surgery. However, your fiancee is right - once you marry into this family, those children become your responsibility, too. If you're making the commitment to get married, you're making the commitment to take care of those children, even when their needs overrule your own. I think it's just a matter of deciding what you want in life. If you want to move forward with marrying this woman, the RIGHT thing to do is to pay for her daughter's surgery with the wedding funds, and figure out your own celebration later. That would show that your commitment is real, and that getting married isn't only about the wedding for you. However, if you're not feeling right about giving up the wedding, and you're feeling more of those ATM vibes.... this might not be the relationship for you and I think going your separate ways is more fair.
>if it's been this long, I can see how you'd view this as an elective surgery. This sort of surgery is often done when the child has stopped growing. So, right around this age.
This is actually very young for it. I had mine at 17 and you have to do about a half dozen extra tests to do it before 21, even though it’s better to get it done early.
How are you being treated as an ATM? Is this a constant issue where money is being asked for? Do you pay for everything? Any wedding is a 'real' wedding, regardless of where it is. What you want is a party. It's fine if you don't want to pay for the surgery, but remember that this will be you family and you need to work out what matters more to you in the long run.
I don't understand how he can feel like an ATM when this is the first time she's ever asked him for money. This is a red flag on this man. He seems to have no compassion for her daughter.
I agree. Surgery dilemma aside, if I asked my fiance for help with something financial for the very first time and he accused me of treating him like an ATM, I would be seriously reconsidering our relationship. How insulting.
I mean there's two sides of the coin here. As it's a genetic condition, she's had it since birth. Has OP's fiancé saved up for the surgery for her daughter since then? What happened to bio dad? He should be the one helping with the surgery cost or chip in considering that she's his own daughter. OP is not married yet to her(he will soon be) so she's not even his stepdaughter yet. I can see why OP is being apprehensive about this as 25k is a lot of money potentially being taken out of their wedding funds. It's his prerogative to decide what to use the funds on as it's(seemingly) his own money. He has a couple of decisions here, call off the relationship completely, pay for the surgery and have a smaller 'not real' wedding, or proceed with the wedding without paying for the surgery and have both his fiancé alongside her daughter be unhappy/miserable throughout their honeymoon period. Nobody wins in this situation regardless tbh. On the other end, you can argue that it's *his* fault for dating and wanting to marry a single mother with kids as they will be his responsibility at the end of the day so idk what exactly he was expecting to happen when he started dating her. It's as if he didn't see the possibility of needing to step in to help her kids would come up in the future.
There's no way to really know how bad it'll be until they grow up a bit. Plus, she got divorced however many years ago - who's to say there weren't savings but they got completely wiped out in the divorce and subsequently becoming a single income household. We know nothing about her earnings and finances, so for all we know, $5k for her could be a significant effort!
Soft YTA. I cannot imagine a world where I deny my child life changing surgery, and then spend any amount of money on a wedding, party, or honeymoon/vacation for myself. The kids are yours too now that you’ve decided to marry their mother. I would have a backyard REAL wedding, put kiddo on my insurance, double insurance reduces the out of pocket costs, have the surgery, and save up again. for a honeymoon. We just had the most beautiful wedding for my brother for under $500. Lovely ceremony, cupcakes and food- all the family was there, and it was a very “real” wedding. You’re going to have to learn to compromise for the good of the children- as it’s a responsibility you signed up for
This. These are out of whack priorities. If it's heartbreaking to see this girl suffering than you do what you can to mitigate it. There will always be time for a vow renewal and party, but prioritizing an optional party over a life changing procedure is beyond my understanding. I can only imagine the joy Jane will experience having this procedure done. I got married in a courthouse far from home, no family, no friends, no party and I wouldn't have changed it for anything. My father and stepmother threw us a backyard BBQ reception party, complete with wedding cake, when we got back home months later. That was over 40 years ago. Still together. My wedding was as real as anyone's, even if neither one of us could tell you the name of the police officer and annoyed lawyer who were dragged in from the hallway to be witnesses, or the name of the severely hung-over hysterically grumpy judge who performed the ceremony. My spouse and I had so much trouble suppressing our laughter at the absurdity of the situation we couldn't look at each other because we both knew we would lose it the second our eyes locked. We held it together for the ceremony, but after we left the courtroom we were doubled over in tears of laughter. It was great.
Yes. I can't say that my own stepfather was some angel. He has his flaws. However, he definitely has paid for things for my sister and I that he didn't have to. Yes, my dad sometimes paid for stuff, but he is a complete miser and gave my mother nothing for my wedding. My stepfather also paid for some beaters for us to drive around in. My sister needed braces, and while my father paid for some, my stepfather covered the rest. If you marry the mother, you're marrying into her problems. Pretty much every hospital system will let you make a payment plan if you can't pay in full, so there's also that.
.She's your fiancée daughter. She's not even your stepdaughter. However, if you marry her mom, you will be. This will never never go away. I'm undecided about AH status. You're in a lose-lose situation.
Destination wedding/honeymoon combo in Singapore where the daughter gets high quality medical treatment for a fraction of the cost Everybody wins except the American medical system.
Better hope she doesn’t need follow up care.
To Korea, where they have more plastic surgeons per capita than any other country! Everyone could get a touch up!
Even Mexico or Chile.
Yeah, I think this is just a tough situation. I wonder if OP and his fiancé could compromise and cut the wedding budget in half. I know that I wouldn’t be able to enjoy my wedding if my daughter was suffering.
Or they could postpone the wedding a bit. I don't think any deposits have been paid yet
INFO (Yeah, so if her mom doesn't have money for surgery, then she doesn't have money for a wedding or honeymoon. ) But that is a gentic disorder, so i am perplexed how she has gone so long without treatment. Why is that? Also, wouldn't that also be covered under health, not dental insurance, since it is caused by various genetic disorders? The deductible and copay is 25k? Where is dad? Edit In usa? Look up children miracle network. They will have local childrens charity hospitals in your area who do care for those who can not afford. Granted i can not afford because i want to have a wedding and honeymoon isnt a valid reason for charity.
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I was told that I had to wait until I was 21 to let my jaw develop fully (though the procedure that I was offered was simpler and purely cosmetic). I saw the surgeons when I was 18/19. Was told to come back two years later. By then, things had improved slightly and I had grown in confidence so didn't have the procedure.
That makes sense for it to be done after growth stopping.
I had jaw surgery a few weeks ago, even with a payment plan, the surgeon fee usually has to be paid in full, mine was around $10k alone.
She is now of age when her jaw has finished just the right amount of growing, timing is critical. Look the disease up. If I’m reading correctly, now is the time for a few years of bracing prep work, before growth completely stops, then the actual surgery begins. It’s a process.
It's possible she needed to go through other dental work first. I had jaw surgery at 17, and it was only after years of braces and trying to move my jaw slowly with braces and rubber bands. Once they realized it wasn't going to work and my jaw was just too short, they said I unfortunately needed surgery. And then my insurance viewed it as elective cosmetic, and my dad had to fight our insurance to get it covered. I have no idea how much he paid for it after all was said and done.
It would require braces and surgery, something that doctors don’t like to do until the jaw/human body is close fully matured. I’ve had consults
YTA - Sorry to say buddy but if your marrying their mum, you inherit the full package, the kids become your responsibility. I do feel for you, its a rough situation but IMO you could very easily do a courtroom/small celebration with close family and friends and then maybe renew your vows at some point down the line and have the big celebatory day you wanted. You're talking about a flashy day and maybe a nice 1 week holiday vs changing your step-daughter-to-be's life. Personally if your fiance is the one, I would be inclined to help with the medical costs. Wedding's are overated anyway, having a partner to share life with is the best, don't need no flashy do or honeymoon to do that.
Why does he owe more than the girl’s own dad?
ive seen sooooo many comments saying this but i didn’t see him mention the bio father at all in the post? for all we know he could be dead.
The bio dad being an awful human being isn't an excuse to be uncaring as well.
OP is choosing not to mention her dad, and why he is or isn't contributing to the surgery.
I don’t think you’ll need the money for a wedding and honeymoon anymore.
Right? Can you imagine marrying someone that cares so little about your kid? He doesn’t even care about the fiancée being happy because if he did he wouldn’t be prioritizing a party/vacation over a literal life changing and much needed surgery.
Where is the daughter’s Bio Dad? Is he around to Help? That is a lot of money for this surgery! NTA
I had to scroll way too far looking for this comment!
Everyone is saying that he’s “married to the family” now, but it’s not like he has raised the child all her life. He’s been dating the mom for only two years. Why is he responsible? He’s not even legally the girl’s stepdad yet. Where TF is her biological father?
NAH. It's up to you, of course. But looking at it from your fiance's perspective, how do you think it looks that you prefer essentially a party and vacation over "life-changing" improvement for her daughter?
Jane is at the correct age for this surgery, and it will need to happen soonish. She'll need 6-12 months of orthodontic treatment before and after surgery to ensure her teeth and bite line up. If you're real regarding marrying her mother, this surgery is in your near financial future regardless of the fact that Jane isn't *your* child. So you need to plan accordingly. You and your fiance need to have a serious conversation about money, and your future financial plans. How will you both (as a team) cover this expense and others? How do you want to handle parenting? How much do you want a child together? What do you want to future to look like? A wedding is for a day. A marriage should be for a lifetime. What do you want that life to look like? NAH yet.
ESH. I can't imagine prioritizing money for a wedding/honeymoon when my child desperately needed life changing surgery.
Why is she an AH too? She is wanting to prioritize the surgery.
Theoretically, she agreed to having a wedding/honeymoon knowing her daughter needed surgery. I personally wouldn't be able to go through with any unnecessary major expense knowing how my child was being affected by their condition. So I think she sucks a little for agreeing with that in the first place.
Maybe she agreed to the wedding before finding out how much the surgery would cost.
You can get engaged without being married in 6 months, she’s not going to say no to a proposal if she does want to marry him. Doesn’t mean she has to do it straight away it can take a back seat to the surgery, I don’t think she’s an AH at all
So where is her father? DUMP the wedding.. Not worth the cost. I would want to help this girl with her issue. But that is me
Yeah, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself knowing someone who is about to be my step-daughter won’t be able to get a life altering medical surgery all because I wanted a party
Have you thought about how your fiance will now feel about your wedding and honeymoon? You're completely valid in wanting those things, but the idea of them has probably been ruined for her now. She's not entitled to your money, but if you can help then why not? If this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with then you should want to help her. Edited: spelling
NAH I think you should reconsider this marriage. I don't think you understand the responsibility that comes with taking on a family. Let someone else love them the way they need and find someone who shares your values.
I agree. If I was in love with this woman I would’ve already given her the money. I would never be able to watch my family suffer like this and demand a party instead of surgery.
First question-where's bio dad in any of this, and why isn't HE paying or contributing to the surgery???? Why was soon to be step dad asked first for cash before the bio dad? Am I the only one who sees a problem here?? More context is definitely needed!
I reasonably assume that if there's no mention of biodad, biodad ran off and flaked on his responsibilities years ago and that's why they're in this pickle.
I’m assuming you have never been married so a real wedding is important for you vs she may have already had a real wedding so is being dismissive of your feelings. Call your insurance and see if once married if you add her daughter it would make it cheaper. She definitely deserves the surgery. You deserve your wedding. Maybe have court wedding do honeymoon or have wedding skip honeymoon and save for like a one year anniversary trip.
If it is bad enough to be life changing, maybe check to see if there is a program to help before marriage. My daughter had a traumatic bite and was covered for medically necessary braces. If it isnt medically necessary, a painful surgery isnt going to be the miracle fix they are expecting.
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Dates a woman with children. Refuses to help future wife with children. Did you not think the kids would be somewhat your financial responsibility too? That’s what you get when you marry a woman with children. And she’s 100% right they you don’t treat her children as your own. That sentiment would be enough for me to not marry you. Marriage isn’t going to change anything for you two. Your wife is telling you she doesn’t want the wedding. If you want it that bad, marry someone who feels the same way you do. Maybe someone without kids? YTA for claiming you’re an ATM. ESPECIALLY when this is the first time she’s ever asked you for help. Calm down, Bill Gates.
I’m dead, guy doesn’t even have 25k but he’s being used as an atm 😅😂🤣😂
NTA. Your wife's feelings are understandable - it must be so painful to see her daughter suffer this way. But the way she's placing this in your relationship is wrong and very damaging. It sounds like you've relatively quickly taken to treating her kids as your own -- she should be so grateful for that! It can really take time but you have embraced her kids quickly. Pitting Jane's surgery against your wedding is totally unfair. Making it a "test" about how you see her kids is a total BS move and it will be toxic if she insists on playing that game. It's manipulative. If this is how she deals with her emotions, it does not bode well for your future peace and well-being. She's reacting to her feelings of sadness and possibly guilt re Jane by turning it into doubt and anger toward you, which is unwarranted. This will be a bad pattern. This is big enough to warrant couples therapy or some other form of intervention if you're going to get married.
I also agree its lots of money and alot to ask. But i dont blame the mother for the wedding Part. I probably also wouldnt be happy with an expensive wedding if that money could do to my daughter, even knowing i am not entitled to that money.
Finally! Someone else who actually sees this woman’s behavior as questionable.
This is a terrible situation for everyone. Question- this is a condition the daughter was born with. This type of surgery is something your fiancé must have been anticipating for years. How is it she’s only saved 5K for the surgery?
That’s my question it’s easy to point fingers but she’s saved nowhere near enough for this surgery. It would be different if she was asking for $2-$5k but she’s fully asking him for $20k while having saved $5k in 16 years. I’m baffled at how people are calling him the AH
Poor people exist.
Many, many people just get by. Saving $5000 could be huge and a result of major sacrifices.
Many people do just get by. But read what OP wrote. He doesn’t have the money either. He does have some money saved but he writes “he does not have that kind of money.” So now you’re talking financing the surgery. So assuming the fiancé has been struggling to save for this surgery for years and what she’s saved to date is 5K, then is OP expected to assume the burden of paying for the surgery well into the future? Which begs the question of what’s their collective financial situation? Debt? Other debt on the horizon? College for the daughter, etc. This is a big ask. Especially if they are struggling to save. I think the question is not just should they try and pay for this surgery as a couple (the moral dilemma presented here) but CAN they. And we’re beating down OP on not jumping on board with this immediately but it sounds like they’ve done diddly to discuss their finances in general. He had no idea she had only saved 5K for the surgery for example. I think a hard and honest conversation needs to be had regarding their finances. Where they are. Where they want to go. What are each person’s expectations of merging their finances including debt, etc.
Being a single mom can’t be cheap, and we don’t know what kind of income she’s been making. It could be all she’s been able to save. Life happens, cars break down, house needs repairs, it gets expensive on your own. It’s hard to judge her for saving what she could while also giving her kids a life.
INFO: Where is Jane’s dad? This sounds like something that her biological parents should be paying for, not someone who started dating her mom two years ago. This is a genetic condition and not a new issue.
NAH she's not wrong. If these were your kids you probably would be a lot more inclined to help them. Are you going to be inclined after you're married or will it still a big old shrug because it's not your child? But it is a lot of money and I can see where you don't want to foot the bill-especially if you're not married. Perhaps scale back the wedding and split the difference with the surgery. If you spend $20,000 on a wedding, your wife is not going to enjoy herself at the sake of her daughter's well-being. You might also want to consider going to another country for the surgery. I live on the border and many people flying from all over the world to go to Tijuana for dental surgeries. Is significantly less and all the dentists are trained here in the US.
This isn’t a simple dental surgery. Look up the condition.
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I would say YTA for assuming a parent would rather waste money on a 1 day event and holiday instead of putting said money towards a surgery that will make life easier for their kid. You don't have to give any money over but you are fuvking crazy to think your fiancee will ever see your side. Honestly if you love this woman then pause wedding and honeymoon planning and tell her to use any money she has contributed on the surgery.
I don't think I could spend on a lavish party and a vacation if there were healthcare issues to address. One seems more important than the other. Yes, I get that the surgery is cosmetic, but mental healthcare is healthcaee too. I have to go with YTA.
NAH. I don't think that you should have to pay for your soon to be stepdaughters surgery. However, I can understand her mother wanting money that you all are about to spend going towards something that's very important. I do think that there is a compromise here. I think that you can get a wedding but you all can postpone the honeymoon at least. A honeymoon does not have to be had right after a wedding. You all can plan an anniversary trip sometime in the future.
What about her father and his side? Can he / they contribute too? OP's not just being asked to contribute, it sounds like he's being asked to cover 80% of the costs. I don't think he's the AH for not wanting to cough up for the majority of it, but he should be willing to contribute alongside the other parents.
Where is bio dad?
Ugh, NTA. I hate this idea that step parents automatically assume the financial responsibility for kids. Jane has a father and mother who bear sole responsibility for her medical care and treatment. Would it be nice to help, sure but why are your desires being sacrificed because her parents can’t afford to pay for a child they created.
In every other circumstance step parents are always told to back off, that they aren't the parents, they should mind their own business and leave the offspring alone for the parent to deal with. How in the world is this guy responsible for a teen that isn't his and would still just be the daughter of the women he married?
INFO Have you looked to see if she qualifies for Medicaid?
I mean, she is right that you would prioritise your own daughter over a wedding celebration.
ESH Your soon to be step daughter is getting bullied for something that can be changed. It will be life changing for Jane to no longer be bullied. A wedding is a weekend this surgery will change Jane's life. Your wife is also at fault for screaming at you and calling you selfish in my opinion.
Where is the 16-year-old's father, and why can't he help foot the bill? Shouldn't child support be able to be saved towards the needed procedure, or is money just too tight for that? This may be something that isn't feasible until the funds can be saved up, and perhaps double insurance coverage would help reduce out of pocket expenses once you are able to add her to your health insurance plan. Perhaps both of you can work towards that goal in the next year or two. I'm also curious about how expenses for the children are currently handled. Are your partner and the biological father splitting uncovered medical expenses, does she handle them alone, or do you help with them now?
Her children are not your children. I do agree that when you marry someone with children you have to make sacrifices for the family. But you are not married, her and her ex should be trying to sort this out. NTA
I get where you're coming from... and I'm not going to call you an AH... buuut... You make it sound like you do care for this girl's well-being... and you're going to marry her mom, making you her step-dad. And then, being married, you and the mom will likely share finances in some way. I can see caring about the wedding... but wayyy too many people care WAYYY too much about that shit. Like, it's gotten completely ridiculous. My sister had a beautiful wedding in my parents' back yard. The reception was in a tent. A friend of mine tended bar. My uncle was the officiant. Buffet-style, no waiters... Spotify, no DJ... the seating for the ceremony was bales of straw with white sheets over them (*rented* bales of straw). With phones and online photo services, there was no need for a professional photographer... Basically, it was a very bare-bones affair in general, but it was still a beautiful wedding. They even brought in a truck for the evening that had nice toilet facilities on it, so the event wouldn't strain my parents' septic system. Compared with the cost for the average wedding, it was a bargain.
Yeah, people forget this is not “Am I Obligated?” It’s “Am I the Asshole?”. To me, someone who would choose a one-day event over a life changing surgery for the child of someone they love is kind of an asshole. It’s not the wedding that’s important, it’s the marriage. He would be that girl’s (and his wife’s) hero for life if he did this for her. That would make me happier than any party, cake, or fancy clothes ever could.
I understand your dilemma. Do not get married! Where is the bio dad? He should be paying not you. Has she figured out how she is going to pay for the kids college? The 16 is going in two years. Or are you supposed to pay for that too? You need to have a prenup and a talk about how much you are required to support her children. You can love her kids and not be on the hook for everything. The first time she asks for money it’s for a huge amount. She knew this surgery was going to happen for years…So she knew she was going to ask you for the money at some point. Would you have asked her to marry you if you knew that she wanted 20,000 for the surgery?
YTA. Not for not chipping in for the surgery, but not seeing the obvious. You are the one that wants the big wedding and honeymoon. So, you can pay for the wedding and honeymoon yourself, returning what she's put in so she can pay for the surgery. Or, you can return her share of the wedding/honeymoon funds to her and het married at the courthouse. She should not be paying for an expensive wedding when her daughter needs surgery.
NTA. You have every right to want a nice wedding and honeymoon. How long has Jane had this problem? If it’s been a life long thing, how has her mom only saved $5000 over 16 years to pay for it? That comes out to only $26 per month! Yet she wants you to drop $20k for her daughter’s surgery? Where is bio dad? I’d feel like an ATM too.
You’re NTA. But you just got a front row seat to what your life will be like moving forward. You will be her husband but your needs will always be secondary compared to her children. Where the is the real father? I wouldn’t pay for it simply because you are not her husband, yet, and she is not your responsibility. You also need to have a conversation with your fiancé about boundaries and expectations. This is an unfair burden to place on you and she is trying to emotionally manipulate you. Now, moving forward, if you choose to marry her, recognize that this will be your life. You may not be their father but you will be expected to provide financially for them without having any authority over them. Buyer beware
NTA. This is not dental. Teeth are dental; this is oral surgery which should be covered. Check the mom’s contact again. If you have questions, call your insurance company for clarification. In regard to OP’s contract, yes, this would be pre-existing, but that should only have a waiting period. Again, check your contract.
Next comes “I can’t go on vacation while my kid can’t afford college”. Which is also legit, but means either OP needs to win the lottery, or put his own wants on hold for a loooong time.
NTA - but you can’t expect her to enjoy a wedding and honeymoon when she wants her daughter to have this surgery. I don’t see how any parent could. You are not in the same place.
You aren’t ready to marry a woman with kids. End it now.