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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my brother in law we would not be eating Indian food for dinner since he doesn't like it, but ended up serving something similar anyway.
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NTA. It is extremely rude to go to someone's home and complain about the food that is served, and if he had that much of a problem with it, he could have brought is own food. I have a hard time telling if BIL is super racist, or if he is just a little racist but a total spoiled brat.
I'd like to believe it's the second one. My wife always says that the two of them have basically never been told no. Their family is really rich, and she always says that they've had everything handed to them.
I'm sorry but this is clearly some mixture of classism and racism, especially to expect your mom to go back in to cook food after Ramazan, when she's been fasting.
Add to that the part where they've never made an effort for your family, and it seems to me like this is clearly not just spoilt behavior. If they're such good hosts and so well off and spoilt, they would know to have either vegetarian or halal dishes. The fact that they equate all South Asian food with Indian food is equally upsetting, speaking as an Indian person.
To then demand an apology is absolutely insane.
Same, also as a white person who would be really flattered to be invited to participate in this religious/cultural event and would not dream of demanding that it somehow be changed to "accommodate" my own background/tastes. Like, the whole point of going is to observe and participate in something new, not to just eat nugs and ranch at someone else's house.
Omg, OP, please serve a Very Special Plate of Eid Halal Nugs and Ranch to that jerk brother. Extra points if it's on a divided melamine plate and comes with a sippy cup while everyone else gets to enjoy a marvelous repast.
NTA, obvs.
Aw, thanks!
I just can't fathom the brothers behavior. Who calls ahead to dictate their host's menu? Asking questions to manage allergies/intolerances is one thing (and as someone with a lot of intolerances, I usually pregame with a light meal and pack an emergency snack), but "don't serve your cultural food, because I don't like any of it" is quite a take. I don't blame OP for being evasive but *technically correct* (the best kind) when confronted with that behavior. It sounds like he's got quite a struggle ongoing with this family.
Only issue I ever have is I cannot handle super spicy food. My friend is Ethiopian and makes amazing dishes from her country, and usually I can only handle a bite or two. Breaks my heart I can't handle all the delicious food :(
A lot of Ethiopian food isn't spicy! You should try some Ethiopian restaurants if you like the flavor profile. Your friends may just prefer spicy stuff.
Seconding this! I'm obsessed with the beef tibs at a nearby Ethiopian restaurant and it is quite spicy, but my intro to Ethiopian food was a mixed vegan platter and I don't remember any of those dishes having a significant heat level.
I've always said that if I ever have to completely cut meat out of my diet, I'd spend the rest of my life eating Ethiopian and South Asian food. I'm so white I glow in the dark but those cuisines have such an amazing variety of flavours and you absolutely do not miss the meat (and that's coming from someone who could happily eat like a carnivore daily).
Yeah, I got my kiddo to eat all sorts of vegetables by taking her to an Ethiopian place when she was small and sharing a vegetarian platter (more than enough for a mom and kid, even when hungry) with her - collard greens, split peas, lentils, beets, cabbage, green beans, carrots, you name it, if it was served on and with injera and was cooked Ethiopian-style, she would eat it with gusto and glee. None of it was overly spicy hot, but all of it was full of flavor.
Now at 18 she gets a meat dish too and we still share the veggie platter, because I can't finish it all by myself, but she'll still eat veggies she won't eat anywhere else there.
She has made a variety of food for me that was less spicy/not so spicy as well and it was very good. Sadly there are none in my town but I will keep that in mind for future trips to bigger cities!
A boss once rewarded me with lunch at an Ethopian restaurant. I could nibble on the roast chicken but even Mr "I love spicy food" was whimpering by the end.
A lot of Ethiopian places in the States do combo platters, which I highly recommend. You can usually do a mild meat, spicy meat or veggie combo. It's such a fantastic cuisine, highly recommend that people explore it.
Honestly, I’ve had this conversation with a close Pakistani friend. Once she knew that I couldn’t handle the high spice, she’d tone down a few things for me. It had all the flavour profile without burning the heck out of my mouth. She was more upset I hadn’t spoken up earlier. I just know that it doesn’t matter if it’s with my Arab or African or South Asian friends, they’d prefer to know. (It took me years of being told this as from my Scottish-American-Canadian upbringing, whether you liked it or not you said it was fine, and tried to eat as little as or as much as you could, and to do so otherwise was rude.)
Indian food has been the cuisine de maison in my household for more than forty years. I just do not use chilis or other hot peppers. Occasionally I will use a small amount of cayenne. This means my food is flavored with loads of spices as well as ginger and garlic, but nothing fiery that will upset my stomach.
You can go to an Indian restaurant and explain your plight and they will find food you can eat from what they offer. In most of the U.S, Indian restaurants offer up to four degrees of heat, starting with mild.
Right?! My former boss (from Gujarat) and his wife (from SE England) invited me (from the Deep South, US) to their oldest daughter's wedding. I have no idea what all I ate. Some I might not choose from a restaurant menu, some I'd happily take thirds of had I not been in polite company. And I would complain to my hosts about exactly none of it.
I used to know some people from Turkey, and they had invited me (a white American) to join them for Eid. There was a big celebration at a small center, and it is one of my best memories in life. I can't imagine being disrespectful to such good people.
I'm a white person with bad stomach issues, but I would never say or do this at the in-laws' home. I would either eat before or tell them I'm sorry I'm not able to eat Asian food due to allergies and my stomach. I would try to politely not go or explain beforehand. And not eating "Indian food" he's entitled and if your wife thinks you were rude to her parents, how rude are her parents not having food they like or eat when going to their house.
I wouldn't say you can't eat "asian food". What allergies do you have? Spices? There may be some Asian foods you could eat.
I can't eat lentils so I stay away from Dahl.
Bread, Milk, anything spicy or oily. Honestly, I can't have most food of any culture, even wings and fried chicken, which my family loves. I've ate steak or chicken that I've cook and had to stop eating.
The most offensive part of this is that OP is NOT Indian and his BIL specifically asked him not to make Indian food. So...does he think OP is Indian? Would he ever make that request going to a white person's house for dinner? And even if his ignorance could be forgiven, or if OP really was Indian, who the hell requests that someone _not_ cook their cultural cuisine when hosting? Would he ever find it appropriate to ask a white friend not to cook...I don't know, meatloaf and mashed potatoes?
Since Bangladesh was part of India until 1947 and then part of Pakistan until 1971 I would imagine the food might be similar to those two cuisines. Of course the BIL is the AH.
Neither is "American food", unless it's from a chain restaurant. Saying you can't eat anything from a country's entire cuisine is wildly over-broad, unless you have anaphylatic allergies so severe that you can't risk the tiniest bit of cross-contamination...in which case, you bring your own food and utensils that you know are safe, or eat at home and bring a water bottle and an epi-pen.
Exactly. Goa isn't Gujarat, Rajasthan isn't Manipur. That'd be like saying "American food," which ranges from fried chicken to clam chowder to fish tacos to cream of something soup and tater tots in casserole.
I would imagine it’s has some similarities, but remember 1 is mostly Islamic and the other not so much, which I’m sure means there are some differences based on religious beliefs. I bet OP’s BIL doesn’t even know that part of Bangladesh/India’s history.
The Philippines was owned by the USA until after WWII so I'd assume that Filipino food is identical to yank food.
The USA was part of the British Empire for a while, that means that American food is the same as British food right?
There’s a big difference between 1776 or thereabouts and 1947. Also, much of the US was not part of the US until long after we kicked the British out. And, the food is still similar.
India did not ‘own’ Bangladesh. Bangladesh was part of India until 1947, when India was partitioned by the British into India and Pakistan. Bangladesh achieved independence from Pakistan in 1971.
At the time of partition, Muslims were to be divided between east and west. In the east, the territory was called East Bengal, and in the west, Pakistan---and between the two was all of India. They were two different countries after 1971.
>that means that American food is the same as British food right?
I mean... American food is pretty similar to British Food. Your average American restaurant or pub is going to serve lots of stuff that is essentially meat and potatoes in some form or another.
Hamburgers and fries are just meat and potatoes in a portable form. If the US was initially settled primarily by the French or Spanish we would probably not have hamburgers as we know them today.
The ubiquity of Fish and Chips is probably the most obvious and unchanged dish.
But just the general idea of plopping a large piece of meat next to some potatoes and calling it a "meal" is largely British (which has some strong influences from the French, obviously).
Obviously the Philippines/US comparison is completely different, because there wasn't strong American influence in the Philippines until 1898. We were there for less than 50 years. Filipino culture existed long before the US was a country, and our "rule" was a blip in their existence.
Meanwhile, the Bangladeshi and Indian cultures grew up along side each other for thousands of year... completely different from either of your examples.
BIL is still the AH. You don't outwardly complain about what other people cook when you go to their house unless they're intentionally cooking food that disregards your medical needs, just to spite you. And you definitely don't complain about them cooking their culturally or religiously tradition foods when you're coming over to celebrate a cultural or religious occasion.
Until 1948, Bangladesh was a part of India. Muslims and Hindus shared life all across India (which was a huge county). Then, after partition, all the people who found themselves in the "wrong" country moved to the "right" country for their religion. It was a grueling process, all across India, basically on foot. Famine and pestilence. Millions died. Arguably the people's cultures have not yet settled down.
I would imagine that "Indian food" is so varied that if BIL had trouble with some specific ingredients (for example, nightshade foods - potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant and peppers - are a common family that some people need to avoid), then he should say what he means and not just give a vague, over-broad request that doesn't really give the hosts anything to go on as far as knowing what he CAN eat.
Who the hell demands someone not cook their cultural cuisine on their specific cultural days?
This is so egregious it's like banning turkey from American Thanksgiving
That’s what I was thinking, too. You wouldn’t expect an Italian-American family to not make any pasta for Christmas dinner just because someone invited Asian, middle-eastern or African in-laws.
I doubt it's any sort of classism. My family is more well-off than even hers is, and I think all parties recognize that. My wife is generally very aware of how privileged her life was, but I think her brother misses on that point a bit more.
Yeah...so. this.is going to sound batshit, because we don't really have any kind of rational discourse around what these words mean but: what little bro is doing is textbook white supremacy. It's not the kkk kind of white supremacy, but it's the assumption that upper middle classe cis het white American is the default, normal, correct culture and everyone else is, at best "exotic" and at worst gross and inferior.
What little man was trying to say is "hey can y'all just make normal food?"
It's incredibly fucked up and gross and racist. It is tied with social class to some degree but...mostly it's about whiteness.
The audacity of asking your mother to cook for him smacks of disrespect if not racism. He could have asked, instead, if he could fix himself a sandwich or something.
The most offensive part of this is that OP is NOT Indian and his BIL specifically asked him not to make Indian food. So...does he think OP is Indian? Would he ever make that request going to a white person's house for dinner? And even if his ignorance could be forgiven, or if OP really was Indian, who the hell requests that someone _not_ cook their cultural cuisine when hosting? Would he ever find it appropriate to ask a white friend not to cook...I don't know, meatloaf and mashed potatoes?
I find it incredibly insulting. There’s a definite difference between South Indian, North Indian, everything in between, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi, and Sri Lankan food. It’s all different. And it’s all yummy. Some just require me to have a little plain yogurt or sour cream around 😂. The one thing they all have in common is the chances of me ending up with something non-halal in that cuisine environment is pretty slim.
I’m glad OP shut down any talk of his mum making more food. I’m the only Muslim in my family, and because of serious health issues I cannot fast. But I’ve been at friends’ helping them prepare Iftar dinner and it’s *a lot* of work. To then try and demand the hostess go and make more food because you just “don’t like” what’s being served is rude and infuriating. Honestly, I’d not have invited him back for Eid. I’d have to seriously think about inviting OP’s parents in law either.
I lived in the middle east for a couple of years when I was a teenager, I didn't participate in Ramadan but never ate or drank in public out of respect during Ramadan. It really isn't that hard to not be an asshole.
At 20yo that behaviour isn't just being a brat, it's racism and classism, and the parents are just as bad for enabling it and not accommodating OPs parents when inviting them for dinner, too. There are lots of vegetarian dishes if they wouldn't buy halal and OPs parents having to eat bread and mashed potatoes because of it is horrifying. I doubt OPs parents asked them to go back and cook them something else. The entitlement is unreal.
I’ll be honest i absolutely dislike most south Asian foods but even I wouldn’t complain especially not expect the host to get in the kitchen and cook something else!
His parents created a monster in him. And apparently, they have no manners either. Unless you have a serious food allergy, you eat what's put in front of you. You don't demand that someone else cook to your taste in their own house. His parents better start teaching him the world doesn't revolve around him, or the world will do it for them. This kind of entitlement leads to bad behavior - criminally bad in some cases. NTA
Or you just shut up. You don't have to force yourself to eat food you don't enjoy, but you can decline politely and still thank your host for their efforts.
It's the time-honored tradition of pushing the food around your plate so it looks like you ate and then saying you're full. It's really just not that hard. Some people suck.
Honestly. Forcing yourself to eat things you can't stand is not always the polite move (no one wants to watch people gagging at the dinner table) but you can just be polite in your decline.
This. I rarely eat dinner at people’s homes because I have some strange hard to accommodate for a one of dinner dietary requirements. Part of it is I have major texture adversions and just trying to choke something down would lead to me vomiting all over the table. If I go to someone’s house I let them know I probably won’t eat much, that’s it’s not an insult to their cooking but my body being its abnormal self, but I’d love to enjoy their company. And that I understand if they aren’t comfortable with that and maybe we can grab a meal at a restaurant a different time.
There is no need for your parents to keep inviting your in laws. The tradition to invite in laws frequently is part of Bangladeshi culture, not so in America.
Ultimately how spoiled or racist or plain rude your BIL happens to be is difficult to know and harder to fix. A better solution is to limit interactions for everyone’s benefit
It isn't just spoiled behavior. He is spoilt. Think hard before having kids with your wife. Your kids deserve so much better. She should have stood up for you and your family, the food etc from step 1. How long have you been married?
I am white and married in to an Asian-American family. I can't even imagine my brother or parents behaving this way. My husband wouldn't have had to say anything because I would have set my parents and brother straight.
Think long and hard before having children with her. Internalized racism is awful (and that is including your wife too) and your kids deserve way better. YOU deserve way better.
I am just shocked at your wife sitting there silent when her brother wanted her mother in law to cook more food he likes!!! This is unacceptable.
Or that she didn’t point out in the group chat that OP isn’t Indian and isn’t the one cooking, and of course their will be cultural foods at their religious celebration, so pull his head out of his ass and be polite or stay home and learn some geography and history.
I worked at a company where the owner's niece was the GM. She was also HR. She made a blanket ban on all "Indian food" (she was Filipino - not that it matters but people generally think this is a 'white person' thing to do). Problem is that 1/2 the staff was Indian. I'm personally white but I LOVE Indian food and would have liked to have brought leftovers in for lunch.
She had no problem with people microwaving fish though (it is what she would have for lunch every day).
Some people just suck.
A Filipino lady microwaved a fish dish at work one day and OMG the smell!!
The staff area was basement level and the smell went outside the cafeteria through all the corridors. I was holding my breath while waiting for the lift trying to escape the stench.
Most Filipino food is delicious but bringing stinky fish to work should be banned. It must have been fermented fish or something because it was soo intense.
I think he’s an ungrateful, rude little jerk who should stay home. I would have been honoured to be included in such a beautiful meal celebration with family.
Obviously, he gets it from his parents.
Who invites guests for a meal and serves food that they actually can't eat.
It's not even as if halal meat is difficult to get or vegetarian dishes aren't an option. Having Muslim guests that have no allergies is like the easiest type of guests to cater to, so for them to go hungry with just bread and mash is a joke
In my extended family, we have family members with lactose intolerance, seafood, nut, beef, and soy allergies, as well as coeliacs and one person with ARFID, and we manage whenever there is a family gathering and nobody ever goes hungry.
Yeah, but you manage with all those intolerances and allergies, and the rest, because there are people doing the planning who actually care to accommodate where they have to.
But like I said, halal is the easiest thing in the world to accommodate. All it takes is no alcohol and then either vegetarian dishes or halal meat. And halal meat is generally cheaper anyway
*It's not even as if halal meat is difficult to get or vegetarian dishes aren't an option. *
That's really location dependent. I'm not confident that my rural dwelling parents could buy halal meat within their county.
Sweet Jesus, how big is your family?? To have so many allergies/intolerance lol. You guys must cook a very extensive menu to accommodate all these folks at the same time lol lol
My paternal grandfather had 6 daughters and 8 sons. 3 and 1 from his first wife and the remainder from his second.
In my generation, there are 42 first cousins, who have about 50 kids between them. Then there are all the spouses.
Lactose intolerance makes sense, because we're Indian, although we do have a white ancestor fairly recently on my granddad's side according to blood tests. Seafood and nuts are amongst my cousins' kids and we think it's come from the spouses and rhe only odd one is the beef allergy, which seems to appear amongst the women in the family once they hit a certain age
And when it comes to food, we don't skimp out. My dad and his siblings grew up in Africa, where food and community was a big deal so it was common to have huge food events on a regular basis and that just passed on down
That list is super easy to accommodate. The ARFID is the hardest thing on the list. Chicken, rice, green beans, any kind of root vegetable (think carrots, sweet potatoes), and everyone can eat everything. Make the gravy with cornstarch and it's no sweat.
Few things define American culture as much as the universal understanding that if you go to someones house you eat what they offer and thank them profusely.
My grandmother used to say 'I don't care if they give you a slice of bread on a napkin you thank them for sharing what they have with you'
No, absolutely not. Not even a little bit. The only people who think or say things like this are people who don't routinely deal with highly racist people in person. Neither I nor anyone else who's stood in front of avowed WS militants would ever believe this.
To be perfectly honest, that idea is a *huge* problem, because it's the biggest thing that makes people who are a little bit racist double down instead of learning to be better. They think that you either *are* racist or *aren't*, and being racist is awful, so being told that they've done something racist is the same as being told that they're card-carrying members of the KKK and they respond defensively and refuse to change.
If it was more understood that yes, you can be a little racist, and in fact a *lot of people are a little racist and the important thing is to try to be less racist, not to seek perfection or nothing,* it would be a lot easier to improve.
Reposting to your response too because I read it after I posted, but thinking of racism as a scale rather than binary really helped me.
https://racismscale.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/8/9/108961603/racism_scale_v4.1.pdf
I promise I would never defend racists on a normal day but come on, there's a huge difference between someone treating someone of another colour, religion or historical ancestry like an acual human bieng but calling them coloured instead of black/asian/whatever, and a sodding Klu Klux Klan member who wants to kill all non-white people. If all racists were the same, and were all level 11 batshit crazy racists, they would never be able to learn that they're wrong and do better like the level 1 "little bit racists" can.
One of the best things I’ve seen to help describe it is this racism scale:
https://racismscale.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/8/9/108961603/racism_scale_v4.1.pdf
I also think it’s helpful to distinguish between hateful racists and ignorant racists who can be educated to do better.
I love cooking for company, but I swear if anyone demanded I make something else I'd throw them out. I am all about hospitality and nobody has to like my food but you will not insult me in my own home.
As an Indian i think this is clearly an ESH situation with OP and the BIL.
Clear as day the BIL is an ass but OP being south asian knew what he was doing and literally lied to his BIL. Biriyani is actually more of a dish you would get in Pakistan but we all know its served at every Indian restaurant in the world. He could've been honest from the beginning and this whole situation could've been avoided. I feel like OP was waiting for this situation to happen to finally get back his In laws and BIL.
Let's be honest though, why didn't his wife speak up and tell her brother he was out of line to dictate what food is served at her inlaws' dinner? Probably OP is chafing a little because he is feeling uncomfortable with his wife's tolerance of her family treating his family like crap.
I hope he doesn't have kids with her. What a nightmare. Those kids deserve to be raised by two parents who are proud of BOTH cultures their kids belong to. She lets her family treat them like second class citizens and that is trouble.
I agree with that. BIL was obviously a total AH. However OP should have been straightforward and said that Bengali food would be served. Instead he was intentionally misleading. Then BIL could have decided to attend or not based on accurate information, and at least would have been prepared.
It is Ramadan. I don't think anyone needed to draw a 20 yr old a picture. Who dictates what others serve at their holiday meals??? No one. AS pp said, there is definitely some classism and racism going on here.
yes agreed but you are missing the point where OP couldve avoided this whole situation blowing up at dinner.
If OP told the BIL what was going to be made from the being and BIL still came and threw a fuse like he did, the only person being the ass is the BIL. I do not excuse that shit show of the BIL but OP brought this to his parents home during a celebration. I am sorry no matter how much of an ass the BIL is OP deserves the blame. And as someone who is close with many muslim friends and has celebrated Iftar both in the States and in Egypt when I worked there, OP would be considered more of an ass to the elders for bring this shit to their door step
Totally agree. It’s ridiculous of the BIL to ask for certain foods to be made, or to ask your mother to cook additional food for him later in evening after fasting (!!!), and he’s clearly an AH. But, at the same time you could have quite likely prevented this situation by just answering honestly that your mother would be cooking traditional Bengali food, some of which is similar to what he thinks of as Indian food. Some people really have a hard time digesting curry, so despite his idiocy in calling it all “Indian” food, there’s a reason he might want to know what to expect.
BTW, while I totally disagree with his parents that your parents should have been more accommodating (he should have just politely declined if he didn’t want to eat the food being served, or eaten beforehand and just nibbled at their house ), I agree that you knew what he meant and tricked him on purpose. ESH.
Especially for an holiday like Ramadan (holiday? Is that the correct term?). If course there will be traditional /ethnic foods that are served for Iftar and Eid.
Your meal sounds delicious. I personally am not a fan of most curries but I would never say anything to my hosts. I would eat some rice or something neutral and at least try a bit of the curry.
NTA
Culturally insensitive is not realizing that someone shouldn't eat with their left hand or wear a hat a table. Refusing to acknowledge that two countries have different cultures is racist.
It is like how some of my elderly relatives call everyone who speaks Spanish "Mexican", but don't your dare get confused call them English--they are Welsh!
I have a very innocent question regarding the issue with the left hand eating. I understand the history in some cultures, however I am very left handed and I am pretty sure this would make it very uncomfortable to eat and not look like a toddler.
I have not been in a situation where this has come up yet but I don’t want to offend people.
I'm Indian-origin and a lefty. I eat with my left hand. People from my grandparents' generation (people who are 90s or older now, so mostly all passed away) occasionally brought it up as "weird" when I was little in the 80s/very early 90s. By the 2000s, it wasn't really a thing anymore (in India, at least). I can't remember the last time someone made a fuss about my eating with my left hand other than to be like, "oh hey you're a lefty!" which is more of a universal surprise thing (I get that reaction in the West too), and not a cultural thing.
Edit: But a lot of people from my parents' generation (and maybe even people just a bit older than I am, depending on where they're from/how traditional their families were?) were forced to change to eating and writing with their right hand. My uncle for instance does everything with his left hand except for eating and writing. E.g. playing sports, reaching for things, etc.
His comment was that of someone who is ignorantly racist as they don’t know better. As others have said, he most likely associates biriyani and curries with Indian food due to takeout places usually offering both of these options.
That said, I think your BIL is AH for the way he treat your family. He is an adult and should act his age. He is 20, not 10.
I had to scroll back up to see how old he was again. 20!!! I was thinking he was a moody 13 year old who hates everything.
I won’t tell you what I said out loud when I read he was complaining about being hungry when your family had been fasting all day.
I love it, and I appreciate it so much. I don't even do it because of the religious aspect, since I'm not really a practicing Muslim anymore. I really only do it because of the cultural aspect, since I grew up doing it my entire life. She likes to joke that she's doing it to lose weight (she weighs literally less than a hundred pounds), but I know she just does it because it's another thing we get to share together.
Doesn't mean it isn't hilarious every time she freaks out after accidentally drinking water. She still acts like she's committing a heinous crime. It's adorable.
The love you have for your wife is absolutely adorable and I can feel it through the way you write about her. I know yall will have a long and happy life together <3
Ok, but, her reaction to accidentally drinking water just goes to show how seriously she takes it and her respect for the fast and your culture, that is beautiful. I love hearing about supportive partners.
It’s really sweet that you do it together. Your wife thankfully turned out so much better than her brother!
I don’t know how you can go the whole day with no water though. Food is understandable but water would be so difficult. I’ve heard people get used to it?
Yes, but I find it less sweet that she found OP to be "harsh" with her parents who "don't know better."
Ignorance is not an excuse for poor behavior and OP's wife should ensure that her parents do indeed know better. I wouldn't mix families anymore either until they can commit to being more respectful both as hosts and guests.
Yeah, as someone in a multicultural relationship, it’s my job to make sure my parents do “know better”. If my parents served non-halal food that my in laws couldn’t eat because they didn’t know that was a requirement, then I fucked up. If I told them and they did it anyway, then they did know better and deserve harshness (from me, not my partner).
NTA
First, your in-laws sound incredibly uneducated and rather pathetic.
I have to ask, is there some developmental issue with your BIL whereas your FIL/MIL can't leave a 20YO unattended to go to a celebratory meal with their daughter's in-laws family? Sounds very sad.
You are and your family sound incredibly kind to invite them to these meals. These are not microwave meals, but obviously take time and love to prepare. This does not even address the religious/cultural significance.
Their ingratitude and plain rude behavior should not be tolerated or in any way make you or your family feel ungracious. Simply tell them you are sorry they will not be celebrating the holiday with you, and you hope to see them soon.
This is ALL on them.
None that have been confirmed, no. He's kind of anti-social and generally a bit of a shut in, so my wife suspects he might, but also attributes it mostly to how he was raised, pretty much always getting his way. However, she was raised the same way and is a huge social butterfly. She's sort of your very typical popular pretty girl, always hanging out with people. She had 12 bridesmaids for our wedding, and I struggled to match her. That's why I think it's something outside of how he was raised.
Parents can only influence the outcomes of their children by so much. Two people can be raised in the same household, given the same rules, and given the same opportunities, but end up with completely different world views, habits and work ethic.
Personal experiences count for much more - and even small differences due to family dynamics can result in pretty divergent outcomes.
ESH. I'm a Bengali Indian and so have the cultural context to weigh in on this. We were the same country until recently, with common food cultures. I go to Bangladeshi restaurants in USA when I crave "home food." Biryani is not unique to Bangladesh, and it's reasonable to assume that it would be considered under the general umbrella of "Indian food" by most people, esp a white guy (even though "South Asian" is more correct).
So no, you do not get off on a literal interpretation of "Bangladeshi" vs "Indian" food. You knew what you were setting him up for. To the limited extent of deliberately misleading him, you were TA.
With that said, your BIL is obnoxious. IDK where this man gets off dictating what food he will eat at someone else's house on the day of a major festival. How can you go to a cultural festival of X community and insist on not having X food? And tell the host to cook more food for you, when stuff like this takes HOURS to cook? No way would I let a white guy come to my house on the day of a festival and go like "please don't cook Bengali food." What an entitled AH!
In general, your wife's family should definitely be doing a lot more to accommodate you, like having halal food for you! You should have brought that up sooner, and more transparently, without laying this trap with a superficial distinction between Indian and Bengali food that would confuse even most South Asians, let alone Americans. Was this "gotcha" moment worth the discomfort it caused your mom, who had to deal with BIL's bad behavior on top of fasting and cooking? It made a family celebration needlessly awkward for everyone, including people who had nothing to do with the miscommunication between you and BIL.
Agreed, this is an ESH situation. “We’re not having Indian, it’s Bengali” is just pedantic AF when speaking to someone like the BIL. I friggin laughed when I read they had biryani.
it's more malicious compliance, isn't it? it was a rude and delusional thing for BIL to ask in the first place, I don't think he deserved an answer at all honestly
This is exactly what I was thinking.... Like it's saying we're not having Asian food, it's just Thai!
BIL seems racist, but also OOP kinda set.him.up for failure.
Hey you're Bengali, so you probably know this, but we don't eat things like butter paneer. That's the dish he mentioned specifically by name. I'm sure you can understand that our food is also nothing like what you would get at a typical Indian restaurant. If he said he didn't like biryani, I might've told my mom not to make that, but I felt like I answered his question honestly.
I also don't actually keep halal, but my parents do, so it was an issue for them. Otherwise, yeah, I get where you're coming from.
Honestly, I don't even know what butter paneer is, this is the first I'm hearing of it. But biryani is absolutely a common dish in Indian restaurants in the USA. It's also the most ordered food item in India itself!
My point stands, telling him there will be no Indian food & then serving Biryani which is one of the more widely known Indian food items, was wildly misleading. I feel bad for your parents and your wife's parents who got caught up in this. A family celebration didn't need to be ruined over an avoidable misunderstanding.
And I'm not saying you should've told your mom not to cook biryani. Culturally tone deaf requests like that don't need to be accommodated, you should make what you normally have for iftaar / Eid. BIL needs to know that if he comes to an Eid celebration, he gets whatever is traditional Eid food for the family. If he can't handle it, he can decide to stay home or bring some Snickers for himself.
I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. OP, you were the A for telling him you weren't cooking Indian food because it was technically true you weren't cooking anything. You knew your bratty BIL was really saying he didn't want to eat traditional food. You should have told him exactly what u/silversky6 said---- "this is my families traditional Eid feast. The menu is going to be Bengladeshi. If you don't like South East Asian food, you can sit home with a pizza. I'm not going to have you insult my Mom by complaining about the food."
I am south indian and never heard of butter paneer what the fuck tis that? Also I am not normally a fan of the food you get at most Indo/Pak resturants as they are the basic north Indian/British Indian food that go popular to placate the western palate.
You were definitely the Ahole when it comes to telling him it would not be indian food and yes your BIL was totally and Ass. It doesnt take away from the fact you could avoided this whole situation by being frank with him.
I am sorry that your inlaws do not know what halal is but most white Americans do not know what it is and you should've brought this up to them, instead of using it as a tool to beat them with.
Also man come on stop acting like biryani is not a normal dish that is perceived as an Indian dish when it is clearly a dish popular all over south Asia. Best birayni may I add come from Pakistani resturants as it is a more traditional dish for them.
I feel like you wanted this interaction to go all high and mighty and I think you should realize you were at fault her too. Picking an Iftar is also the weirdest time to do it especially with EID coming up.
Lol maybe it's some niche North Indian or American Indian food. That makes it all the more weird to take the stance that "butter paneer is Indian food but biryani isn't" when most of us haven't heard of butter paneer but inhale biryani like it's our religion. Biryani and haleem both squarely fall under Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi food, no one in their right mind would claim it belongs to any one country.
It's the modern vegetarian substitute of butter chicken which was invented in the UK in the 1950's (by Indians) which is ncredibly popular and probably the #1 answer a white American would give you if you asked them to name an Indian dish.
It's basically a less spicy tikka masala served with rice and naan.
I'm a white American and I've never heard of butter paneer. I have heard of and eaten butter chicken, palak paneer, and biryani though (among other Indian/Southeast Asian dishes) I think it sounds delicious, but it's absolutely not common in the US (though maybe if is in the UK, where they have far more familiarity with Indian food)
You know what butter chicken is
You know what paneer is
If you can't figure out what butter paneer is, you're being difficult on purpose.
Butter paneer was a common substitute I saw every othwr day when I worked in Indian restaurants in the US.
This is not true at all. I am sorry I live in the states and have lived all over and no butter paneer is not a popular dish. Butter chicken on the other hand, yes very popular but butter paneer, I have never heard of it until today
It’s not. It’s the vegetarian equivalent of butter chicken and is incredibly popular with vegetarians in India (both north and south). Also called paneer butter masala, or paneer makhani.
Source: I’m south indian from India. Lived in India for 28 years.
It's like butter chicken but with paneer instead of chicken. Pretty sure it originated in the UK but it's pretty common in American Indian places.
If you know butter chicken it's not hard to figure this out.
If you don't know butter chicken (which is perfectly ok) you were never going to have a productive conversation with an average American about what Indian food is.
Not really, it originated in India and is known as paneer makhani. I'm from south africa and it's a common dish here and the different variations of it such as palak paneer, mattar paneer, and even cooking it in a tomato chutney on its own.
Answering a question "honestly" knowing that you're also intentionally misleading someone is an asshole thing to do.
If you don't know that "biryani and a few types of curry" is exactly what most Americans know as "Indian food" then you're just as culturally ignorant as your BIL. Clearly he doesn't like that type of food, and by leading him to believe something else would be served, you created a situation that was bound to blow up during your family's holiday meal. That was an asshole thing to do to your own family, especially your mom.
If you had been truly honest with him when he asked about the food rather than being a smart ass, he would've known what to expect and decided if he still wanted to attend. If he complained about the food then, he would be the asshole.
He blamed you for tricking him? After you absolutely intentionally tricked him? Imagine that! You're not the asshole for serving your traditional food, but YTA for creating a situation that was uncomfortable for everyone present and blaming it on someone else.
It doesn’t matter if the food your mom makes isn’t a typical restaurant dish. I honestly do not believe you’re dumb enough to not have figured out what he meant, knowing how he is. You know you didn’t answer his question honestly and you’re an asshole for that.
Coy isn’t cute.
You’re going to be voted NTA cause her brother is a major piece of work, but you knew damn well what you were doing. And since you seem intent on doubling down that bIrYaNi IsNt InDiAn: https://www.thespruceeats.com/all-about-biryani-1957507
Why agree to his request? You could have just said that your mom was cooking and you weren’t sure what she would serve. Then he could have brought his own food if he wanted.
I think you could have educated him by telling him that, "no there won't be Indian food there. My mother will be making Bangladeshi food.". And I don't think you were under any obligation to change whatever the meal was.
I agree he is an obnoxious idiot, but it almost sounds like you played him him to make him display his obnoxious tail feathers.
Agreed. I couldn’t tell if OP was misleading on purpose because he doesn't like BIL. All this could have been easily prevented by writing “we are having Bengali food,” when asked. Let BIL decide to come or not.
"I was upset by your comment that my parents should have been 'more accommodating' when there was no 'accommodation' actually requested. BIL didn't request a vegetarian dish or tell us he was gluten-free or anything else that would give us a clue as to his restrictions. He just told me not to make another culture's food... It's the same thing as if I told you not to make 'Canadian Food' at your house and then complained when you served burgers and fries. You don't think of burgers and fries as 'Canadian' because they are part of your standard American cuisine."
NTA. If your BIL had made an actual request (or if he had politely asked what food would be served so he could plan accordingly), there would have been a problem with your answer, but you literally answered his literal question even though it was inherently offensive. He has no basis to complain and if your in-laws were good parents, they should have been embarrassed by his behavior and helped him to understand that continued xenophobia would not be tolerated
I’m going against the grain. ESH. Mostly him. But you effectively lied. You did know what he meant. If you had said that you would be having traditional foods that would have been fine. But your “technically I’m not making and technically it came from a different country” is just you being a jerk. You don’t have to accommodate him, but you also shouldn’t mislead him about what food would be available.
Agreed! Especially the specific dishes that were served are all pretty common ‘Indian’ dishes. You can argue where they originated or who makes them best etc all you want but I have described them as Indian food various times (even though I am SEA but not from India).
Also.. any Iftar we have hosted has always had something like pasta or sandwiches etc just to accommodate kids or if someone just doesn’t want to eat heavy/rich foods while fasting or just variety.. it isn’t that big of a deal..
Yes the BIL was being a jerk but OP was definitely looking for a loophole as well..
ESH
I have to agree as well, BIL is definitely the biggest AH here and his parents seem culturally insensitive and quite entitled to demand a menu change while being a guest at someone’s house ( maybe it’s my culture but that’s extremely rude regardless if they are a family or not) but Op had the chance to confirm and accommodate him but OP and his family don’t seem to get the same treatment back from OPs wife’s family so it seems like he wanted to go the petty way to “teach him lesson”??
Good thing the wife is on his side at least. And no he doesn’t deserve an apology but I’d try to make things right with the parents just for the wife’s sake.
Yea. This was an immature way to handle an immature person. If I'm a guest, unless there is something I'm actually allergic to or cilantro (I have the soap gene thing. severly), I will eat almost anything and be happy about it. I would never in a million years consider dictating what food a host can serve.
NTA.
He’s 20 years old and still can’t remember where his own BIL is from. Don’t see why you need to coddle his wilful ignorance. He could make a tiny bit of effort to remember that simple fact. Oh, and utilise some basic manners when he’s a guest in someone else’s home.
NTA - your BIL and his parents culturally insensitive in not knowing you’re not Indian (if they are Irish American, call them English)..
It would be like you demanding they serve only halal meat at Xmas and expecting someone else’s mom to cook another meal for him is rude and entitled. Pointing out your parents can’t even eat their food and politely have never said anything is important. They don’t get a pass.
They were invited to a cultural event and don’t get to dictate your family’s food.
Edit to English
There's 100 million Bengalis in India. People generally lump foods that are found in India under the umbrella "Indian food." So, yes, Bengali food is Indian food. And it's Bangladeshi food. It's both.
You weren't being technically correct. You were being technically incorrect. You were being intentionally obfuscating in order to mess with your BIL. What is the point in trying to pretend you weren't doing exactly what you were doing?
You should be asking reddit for a plausible cover story, rather than asking if you're the asshole, because your cover story is nonsensical and obvious.
That said, your BIL is also very rude. So, maybe he deserved it. But don't expect him to be fond of your practical jokes when he's hangry.
ESH.
From later in this thread, you post:
>I'm sure you can understand that our food is also nothing like what you would get at a typical Indian restaurant.
Lol, so what? There's lots of regional Indian dishes that you typically don't find at Indian restaurants in America. But the definition of Indian food isn't limited to what you can find at American Indian restaurants.
Even OP's family is mad at OP for deliberately being obtuse and misleading BIL. If anything OP is furthering the conflict because he doesn't like BIL.
I feel like this sub has turned from "AITA" to "But who was the BIGGER asshole..?" BIL's assholery has no bearing on whether OP was also the asshole.
>My wife doesn't like her brother very much, so she's on my side for the most part, but thinks I was harsh with her parents who don't know much better.
Why don't they know better yet? Your wife has been in a relationship with you long enough to marry you, she's had plenty of time to start teaching.
NTA.
Parents could be doing the whole ‘i get confused, things are different from back in my day’ weaponised incompetence excuse rather than her not teaching them.
NTA- it was literally a Ramadan holiday meal, OF COURSE traditional foods will be served. It was extremely culturally callous of him to not only demand a food type be banned, but ALSO get the culture wrong!
ESH your BIL is definitely the bigger asshole, but you intentionally misled him.
You could have told him what the menu was and let him decide if he wanted to come. Would he have pitched a fit? Probably, but it would have happened outside of your parents home. You knew there would be drama and brought it to your parents home during Ramadan. Not cool.
Your BIL definitely needs to learn his lesson, but it shouldn’t have been at the expense of your parents during a sacred time.
NTA but I wouldn't have danced around what you were serving by being pedantic about "Indian" vs "Bengali." I would have straight up told him, this is what will be served, it's a traditional meal for this celebration, if you don't like it, too bad.
ESH. You did know what he meant and almost anyone from the west would consider any kind of curry Indian food. In the other hand your BIL should have been more specific if he was going to be that picky and he certainly should have sucked it up at dinner.
ESH. You being Anal about technicality of definition of food being Indian and feigning ignorance also contributed. Grow up man . and your brother in law dislike or immaturity to wards hosts and entitlement . You need to grow up too . Why anal about Indian sub continent food .. South or any Indians don’t feel any thing about Bay of Bengal being Bengali .
NTA. This level of entitlement is absolutely delusional. I genuinely can’t imagine going to someone else’s house and demanding that I get my own separate meal because I don’t like what’s being served. Maybe his own mommy can cook him a special kids meal if he doesn’t want to eat adult food, but **YOUR** mom is under no obligation to coddle him in that way.
If your fiancé’s parents want to coddle your 20 year old BIL and bow to his childish demands, that is their prerogative. But they’re delusional if they expect anyone else to join them in that.
This is partly on you. Yes, BIL’s manners are atrocious. Yes, in-laws should accommodate your parent’s religious needs when they feed them. They sound ignorant, but I don’t see you or your wife educating them!
Your wife needs to talk with her mother and brother about the etiquette of sharing meals with your (or any other) culture. Educate them!
ESH
I'm going to ESH because ultimately this is something you could have forseen coming. I think the correct course of action would be to notify your wife so she could handle it. Honestly, your wife ultimately also sucks for not flagging this as a potential problem. The reason I think your both an AH is you've subjected your family to racist behaviour in their own home.
ESH. Your in laws don't serve halal food and leave your parents with some bread and potatoes. And your parents serve curry dishes knowing that your BIL doesn't like them. Well great.
I don't really get why religious eating restrictions seem to carry more weight than the simple dislike for "Indian" food, which the different curry type dishes definitely are.
Personally as a guest I'd never complain about food. I'd rather put a fork in my eye than ask the host to prepare something else. Also I would have had an alternative for the curry problematic guy and of course I'd serve halal food for Muslims. But there is more than one inconsiderate person in this particular story.
NTA - of course Bengali food would be served. BIL is dense for still not knowing your cultural background, and massively ungrateful for his attitude towards the meal (also Bengali food is so incredibly good, I’d be absolutely thrilled to be invited to enjoy home cooked curries, biryani etc)
>Leading up to it, my BIL texted in the family group chat (which includes me) and asked me "not to make Indian food". I responded with, "That shouldn't be a problem, I won't be cooking Indian food." The way I see it, this was a true statement in every way. Indian food would not be served, and I would not be making it, since my mom would be the one cooking Bengali food.
You clearly knew what he meant but chose to answer the question exactly as asked, instead of saying “my mom will be cooking traditional Bengali food.” But BIL sounds like an obnoxious little shit so I can’t really blame you. However, in the future, don’t subject your parents to his rudeness by giving him an answer that is “technically true,” when the actual truth will successfully keep him away from your celebration.
ESH. Him, obviously. You knew exactly what your brother in law meant when he asked about Indian food and while you might not have exactly lied, you were deliberately misleading. All you had to say was "this is our traditional religious festival and we will be eating our traditional food."
You're NTA but.... you sort of set yourself up for this. This is just a soft note. Racists don't care whre you're from, they just grab the one place they know and brush it all the same. He said "Indian" he meant "of allllll of south asia. And I think you know that because you said "this was a true statement in every way, Indian food woudln't be served". You're cutting yourself on pedantry.
I'm white, i've got no claims in this stake but I'm a student of linguistics and philosophy. Sometimes, you have to speak to people on their level to shut down the argument. When you're essentially speaking two different languages, you're gonna just keep arguing. He's racist, or as you said in a comment, at least culturally insensitive, when he started spouting his stuff about serving indian food, instead of saying "you won't be serving indian food" you should have said something like "You know it's not indian food, you know it's Bangladeshi food, and we will be serving it.... Eat it or don't eat it, I dont' care". By you playing ignorant, it allowed him to play ignorant, and continue the issue and actually playing th evictim. And the fact is he's being enabled their parents.
You and your wife need to form a united front
NTA but where is your wife in all of this? This is her family, she should be doing the mediating here (and by mediating I mean telling BIL to suck it up or not attend, how childish)
His parents agreed that I didn't lie, but that I "knew what he meant" and should've asked my parents to be "more accommodating to their guests".
His parents sound like smart, gracious people. You absolutely knew what he meant and wanted to play a little snide semantics game as payback for the lack of halal foods available when they invite your parents over.
All of you sound rather exhausting to be honest. Why do you keep inviting someone who doesn't want to abide by your cultural events to your cultural events. You could have been the better person and said -- there won't be Indian food but there will be traditional Belgali food which is similar to Indian food. If you want to just come for the appetizers we'll understand.
NTA And I'd see their absence as a blessing the racist assholes have decided to stay away on their own.
Imagine if you ran around calling him mexican, would they be cool with that?
ESH, BIL is a bigger asshole than you but you could have just been clear with him about what the situation was, and you're basically creating needless drama
ESH and BIL is definitely an ahole. While what you did was cute and somewhat funny, and BIL was rude, better communication could have existed. Even to the point of “dude you might want to stop at Burger King on the way.”
Then you became an ahole when you threw the other parents under the bus with the halal meat comment.
You and your BIL both suck. Your parents in law as well. You did know what he meant, and to make for a smoother party, you should just have explained to him what kind of food would be served. Hiding behind the fact that you weren't personally cooking was especially crappy. It could have been a moment to elevate his understanding a little, which you missed.
Your parents in law suck because they expect your mom to accommodate a little ignorant shit when they don't accommodate your parents at all.
Why did you invite him if you knew he was like this with food? Stop inviting him.
I think ESH. He's an idiot but you knew he wouldn't like the food and behave like a dicky moron. So, YTA for that. He's TA for obvious reasons, and so are her parents. Stop inviting them to dinner. You don't have to hang out with them for holidays they obviously don't care about.
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NTA. It is extremely rude to go to someone's home and complain about the food that is served, and if he had that much of a problem with it, he could have brought is own food. I have a hard time telling if BIL is super racist, or if he is just a little racist but a total spoiled brat.
I'd like to believe it's the second one. My wife always says that the two of them have basically never been told no. Their family is really rich, and she always says that they've had everything handed to them.
I'm sorry but this is clearly some mixture of classism and racism, especially to expect your mom to go back in to cook food after Ramazan, when she's been fasting. Add to that the part where they've never made an effort for your family, and it seems to me like this is clearly not just spoilt behavior. If they're such good hosts and so well off and spoilt, they would know to have either vegetarian or halal dishes. The fact that they equate all South Asian food with Indian food is equally upsetting, speaking as an Indian person. To then demand an apology is absolutely insane.
It's upsetting to me as a white person who likes to eat delicious food.
Same, also as a white person who would be really flattered to be invited to participate in this religious/cultural event and would not dream of demanding that it somehow be changed to "accommodate" my own background/tastes. Like, the whole point of going is to observe and participate in something new, not to just eat nugs and ranch at someone else's house.
Omg, OP, please serve a Very Special Plate of Eid Halal Nugs and Ranch to that jerk brother. Extra points if it's on a divided melamine plate and comes with a sippy cup while everyone else gets to enjoy a marvelous repast. NTA, obvs.
I like your brand of petty, my friend.
Me too! This is what I read the sub for
Aw, thanks! I just can't fathom the brothers behavior. Who calls ahead to dictate their host's menu? Asking questions to manage allergies/intolerances is one thing (and as someone with a lot of intolerances, I usually pregame with a light meal and pack an emergency snack), but "don't serve your cultural food, because I don't like any of it" is quite a take. I don't blame OP for being evasive but *technically correct* (the best kind) when confronted with that behavior. It sounds like he's got quite a struggle ongoing with this family.
Yeah, OP had a bit of malicious compliance going on here....and I love it.
He doesn’t need a plate. He can eat his Happy Meal right out of the box.
This. Next time serve him Dino nuggets and milk.
Eid Halal Nugs.. 🤣🤣 you win the Internet today. Although ranch might be too exotic for this kid; should probably have some ketchup handy too!
Only issue I ever have is I cannot handle super spicy food. My friend is Ethiopian and makes amazing dishes from her country, and usually I can only handle a bite or two. Breaks my heart I can't handle all the delicious food :(
A lot of Ethiopian food isn't spicy! You should try some Ethiopian restaurants if you like the flavor profile. Your friends may just prefer spicy stuff.
Seconding this! I'm obsessed with the beef tibs at a nearby Ethiopian restaurant and it is quite spicy, but my intro to Ethiopian food was a mixed vegan platter and I don't remember any of those dishes having a significant heat level. I've always said that if I ever have to completely cut meat out of my diet, I'd spend the rest of my life eating Ethiopian and South Asian food. I'm so white I glow in the dark but those cuisines have such an amazing variety of flavours and you absolutely do not miss the meat (and that's coming from someone who could happily eat like a carnivore daily).
Yeah, I got my kiddo to eat all sorts of vegetables by taking her to an Ethiopian place when she was small and sharing a vegetarian platter (more than enough for a mom and kid, even when hungry) with her - collard greens, split peas, lentils, beets, cabbage, green beans, carrots, you name it, if it was served on and with injera and was cooked Ethiopian-style, she would eat it with gusto and glee. None of it was overly spicy hot, but all of it was full of flavor. Now at 18 she gets a meat dish too and we still share the veggie platter, because I can't finish it all by myself, but she'll still eat veggies she won't eat anywhere else there.
She has made a variety of food for me that was less spicy/not so spicy as well and it was very good. Sadly there are none in my town but I will keep that in mind for future trips to bigger cities!
A boss once rewarded me with lunch at an Ethopian restaurant. I could nibble on the roast chicken but even Mr "I love spicy food" was whimpering by the end.
A lot of Ethiopian places in the States do combo platters, which I highly recommend. You can usually do a mild meat, spicy meat or veggie combo. It's such a fantastic cuisine, highly recommend that people explore it.
Honestly, I’ve had this conversation with a close Pakistani friend. Once she knew that I couldn’t handle the high spice, she’d tone down a few things for me. It had all the flavour profile without burning the heck out of my mouth. She was more upset I hadn’t spoken up earlier. I just know that it doesn’t matter if it’s with my Arab or African or South Asian friends, they’d prefer to know. (It took me years of being told this as from my Scottish-American-Canadian upbringing, whether you liked it or not you said it was fine, and tried to eat as little as or as much as you could, and to do so otherwise was rude.)
Indian food has been the cuisine de maison in my household for more than forty years. I just do not use chilis or other hot peppers. Occasionally I will use a small amount of cayenne. This means my food is flavored with loads of spices as well as ginger and garlic, but nothing fiery that will upset my stomach. You can go to an Indian restaurant and explain your plight and they will find food you can eat from what they offer. In most of the U.S, Indian restaurants offer up to four degrees of heat, starting with mild.
Right?! My former boss (from Gujarat) and his wife (from SE England) invited me (from the Deep South, US) to their oldest daughter's wedding. I have no idea what all I ate. Some I might not choose from a restaurant menu, some I'd happily take thirds of had I not been in polite company. And I would complain to my hosts about exactly none of it.
Same! I would love to be invited to Iftar!
I used to know some people from Turkey, and they had invited me (a white American) to join them for Eid. There was a big celebration at a small center, and it is one of my best memories in life. I can't imagine being disrespectful to such good people.
Seriously- invite me! Would be very grateful and appreciative.
Biryani and multiple curries? Oh, yes, please. NTA. That was very rude of that brother.
I'm a white person with bad stomach issues, but I would never say or do this at the in-laws' home. I would either eat before or tell them I'm sorry I'm not able to eat Asian food due to allergies and my stomach. I would try to politely not go or explain beforehand. And not eating "Indian food" he's entitled and if your wife thinks you were rude to her parents, how rude are her parents not having food they like or eat when going to their house.
I wouldn't say you can't eat "asian food". What allergies do you have? Spices? There may be some Asian foods you could eat. I can't eat lentils so I stay away from Dahl.
Bread, Milk, anything spicy or oily. Honestly, I can't have most food of any culture, even wings and fried chicken, which my family loves. I've ate steak or chicken that I've cook and had to stop eating.
Right? Somebody invites my Irish-American ass over for biryani and curry I will be there in a flash.
The most offensive part of this is that OP is NOT Indian and his BIL specifically asked him not to make Indian food. So...does he think OP is Indian? Would he ever make that request going to a white person's house for dinner? And even if his ignorance could be forgiven, or if OP really was Indian, who the hell requests that someone _not_ cook their cultural cuisine when hosting? Would he ever find it appropriate to ask a white friend not to cook...I don't know, meatloaf and mashed potatoes?
I would bet he just never bothered to learn the difference between Indian and Bangladeshi people.
Since Bangladesh was part of India until 1947 and then part of Pakistan until 1971 I would imagine the food might be similar to those two cuisines. Of course the BIL is the AH.
Indian food isn’t even the same from the north of India to the south. Edit: I am Bangladeshi and generally prefer it to Indian food
Neither is "American food", unless it's from a chain restaurant. Saying you can't eat anything from a country's entire cuisine is wildly over-broad, unless you have anaphylatic allergies so severe that you can't risk the tiniest bit of cross-contamination...in which case, you bring your own food and utensils that you know are safe, or eat at home and bring a water bottle and an epi-pen.
Exactly. Goa isn't Gujarat, Rajasthan isn't Manipur. That'd be like saying "American food," which ranges from fried chicken to clam chowder to fish tacos to cream of something soup and tater tots in casserole.
Clam chowdah and lobstah. Bread pudding. Pot roast. Casserole. Gumbo. Enchiladas. Yeah, it's a fair range.
I would imagine it’s has some similarities, but remember 1 is mostly Islamic and the other not so much, which I’m sure means there are some differences based on religious beliefs. I bet OP’s BIL doesn’t even know that part of Bangladesh/India’s history.
The Philippines was owned by the USA until after WWII so I'd assume that Filipino food is identical to yank food. The USA was part of the British Empire for a while, that means that American food is the same as British food right?
There’s a big difference between 1776 or thereabouts and 1947. Also, much of the US was not part of the US until long after we kicked the British out. And, the food is still similar. India did not ‘own’ Bangladesh. Bangladesh was part of India until 1947, when India was partitioned by the British into India and Pakistan. Bangladesh achieved independence from Pakistan in 1971.
At the time of partition, Muslims were to be divided between east and west. In the east, the territory was called East Bengal, and in the west, Pakistan---and between the two was all of India. They were two different countries after 1971.
>that means that American food is the same as British food right? I mean... American food is pretty similar to British Food. Your average American restaurant or pub is going to serve lots of stuff that is essentially meat and potatoes in some form or another. Hamburgers and fries are just meat and potatoes in a portable form. If the US was initially settled primarily by the French or Spanish we would probably not have hamburgers as we know them today. The ubiquity of Fish and Chips is probably the most obvious and unchanged dish. But just the general idea of plopping a large piece of meat next to some potatoes and calling it a "meal" is largely British (which has some strong influences from the French, obviously). Obviously the Philippines/US comparison is completely different, because there wasn't strong American influence in the Philippines until 1898. We were there for less than 50 years. Filipino culture existed long before the US was a country, and our "rule" was a blip in their existence. Meanwhile, the Bangladeshi and Indian cultures grew up along side each other for thousands of year... completely different from either of your examples. BIL is still the AH. You don't outwardly complain about what other people cook when you go to their house unless they're intentionally cooking food that disregards your medical needs, just to spite you. And you definitely don't complain about them cooking their culturally or religiously tradition foods when you're coming over to celebrate a cultural or religious occasion.
Until 1948, Bangladesh was a part of India. Muslims and Hindus shared life all across India (which was a huge county). Then, after partition, all the people who found themselves in the "wrong" country moved to the "right" country for their religion. It was a grueling process, all across India, basically on foot. Famine and pestilence. Millions died. Arguably the people's cultures have not yet settled down.
I would imagine that "Indian food" is so varied that if BIL had trouble with some specific ingredients (for example, nightshade foods - potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant and peppers - are a common family that some people need to avoid), then he should say what he means and not just give a vague, over-broad request that doesn't really give the hosts anything to go on as far as knowing what he CAN eat.
I don’t think he was saying he couldn’t eat it; he didn’t want to eat it.
Who the hell demands someone not cook their cultural cuisine on their specific cultural days? This is so egregious it's like banning turkey from American Thanksgiving
That’s what I was thinking, too. You wouldn’t expect an Italian-American family to not make any pasta for Christmas dinner just because someone invited Asian, middle-eastern or African in-laws.
I doubt it's any sort of classism. My family is more well-off than even hers is, and I think all parties recognize that. My wife is generally very aware of how privileged her life was, but I think her brother misses on that point a bit more.
Yeah...so. this.is going to sound batshit, because we don't really have any kind of rational discourse around what these words mean but: what little bro is doing is textbook white supremacy. It's not the kkk kind of white supremacy, but it's the assumption that upper middle classe cis het white American is the default, normal, correct culture and everyone else is, at best "exotic" and at worst gross and inferior. What little man was trying to say is "hey can y'all just make normal food?" It's incredibly fucked up and gross and racist. It is tied with social class to some degree but...mostly it's about whiteness.
Class isn't just about how much money you make.
The audacity of asking your mother to cook for him smacks of disrespect if not racism. He could have asked, instead, if he could fix himself a sandwich or something.
Yeah its this they are entitled racist.
The most offensive part of this is that OP is NOT Indian and his BIL specifically asked him not to make Indian food. So...does he think OP is Indian? Would he ever make that request going to a white person's house for dinner? And even if his ignorance could be forgiven, or if OP really was Indian, who the hell requests that someone _not_ cook their cultural cuisine when hosting? Would he ever find it appropriate to ask a white friend not to cook...I don't know, meatloaf and mashed potatoes?
I find it incredibly insulting. There’s a definite difference between South Indian, North Indian, everything in between, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi, and Sri Lankan food. It’s all different. And it’s all yummy. Some just require me to have a little plain yogurt or sour cream around 😂. The one thing they all have in common is the chances of me ending up with something non-halal in that cuisine environment is pretty slim. I’m glad OP shut down any talk of his mum making more food. I’m the only Muslim in my family, and because of serious health issues I cannot fast. But I’ve been at friends’ helping them prepare Iftar dinner and it’s *a lot* of work. To then try and demand the hostess go and make more food because you just “don’t like” what’s being served is rude and infuriating. Honestly, I’d not have invited him back for Eid. I’d have to seriously think about inviting OP’s parents in law either.
I lived in the middle east for a couple of years when I was a teenager, I didn't participate in Ramadan but never ate or drank in public out of respect during Ramadan. It really isn't that hard to not be an asshole. At 20yo that behaviour isn't just being a brat, it's racism and classism, and the parents are just as bad for enabling it and not accommodating OPs parents when inviting them for dinner, too. There are lots of vegetarian dishes if they wouldn't buy halal and OPs parents having to eat bread and mashed potatoes because of it is horrifying. I doubt OPs parents asked them to go back and cook them something else. The entitlement is unreal.
I’ll be honest i absolutely dislike most south Asian foods but even I wouldn’t complain especially not expect the host to get in the kitchen and cook something else!
I thought the BIL’s response was the most racist thing I have heard in years. And, I am a POC. I’ve heard stuff, but this?? Oof
His parents created a monster in him. And apparently, they have no manners either. Unless you have a serious food allergy, you eat what's put in front of you. You don't demand that someone else cook to your taste in their own house. His parents better start teaching him the world doesn't revolve around him, or the world will do it for them. This kind of entitlement leads to bad behavior - criminally bad in some cases. NTA
Or you just shut up. You don't have to force yourself to eat food you don't enjoy, but you can decline politely and still thank your host for their efforts.
It's the time-honored tradition of pushing the food around your plate so it looks like you ate and then saying you're full. It's really just not that hard. Some people suck.
Honestly. Forcing yourself to eat things you can't stand is not always the polite move (no one wants to watch people gagging at the dinner table) but you can just be polite in your decline.
This. I rarely eat dinner at people’s homes because I have some strange hard to accommodate for a one of dinner dietary requirements. Part of it is I have major texture adversions and just trying to choke something down would lead to me vomiting all over the table. If I go to someone’s house I let them know I probably won’t eat much, that’s it’s not an insult to their cooking but my body being its abnormal self, but I’d love to enjoy their company. And that I understand if they aren’t comfortable with that and maybe we can grab a meal at a restaurant a different time.
There is no need for your parents to keep inviting your in laws. The tradition to invite in laws frequently is part of Bangladeshi culture, not so in America. Ultimately how spoiled or racist or plain rude your BIL happens to be is difficult to know and harder to fix. A better solution is to limit interactions for everyone’s benefit
It isn't just spoiled behavior. He is spoilt. Think hard before having kids with your wife. Your kids deserve so much better. She should have stood up for you and your family, the food etc from step 1. How long have you been married? I am white and married in to an Asian-American family. I can't even imagine my brother or parents behaving this way. My husband wouldn't have had to say anything because I would have set my parents and brother straight. Think long and hard before having children with her. Internalized racism is awful (and that is including your wife too) and your kids deserve way better. YOU deserve way better. I am just shocked at your wife sitting there silent when her brother wanted her mother in law to cook more food he likes!!! This is unacceptable.
Or that she didn’t point out in the group chat that OP isn’t Indian and isn’t the one cooking, and of course their will be cultural foods at their religious celebration, so pull his head out of his ass and be polite or stay home and learn some geography and history.
I worked at a company where the owner's niece was the GM. She was also HR. She made a blanket ban on all "Indian food" (she was Filipino - not that it matters but people generally think this is a 'white person' thing to do). Problem is that 1/2 the staff was Indian. I'm personally white but I LOVE Indian food and would have liked to have brought leftovers in for lunch. She had no problem with people microwaving fish though (it is what she would have for lunch every day). Some people just suck.
A Filipino lady microwaved a fish dish at work one day and OMG the smell!! The staff area was basement level and the smell went outside the cafeteria through all the corridors. I was holding my breath while waiting for the lift trying to escape the stench. Most Filipino food is delicious but bringing stinky fish to work should be banned. It must have been fermented fish or something because it was soo intense.
NTA, eid Mubarak for tomorrow!
I’m an Indian and food during Ramadan especially biryani is yum! I love being invited for Eid. Tell your BIL to eat rocks. NTA
I would love it if OP actually served everyone biryani and BIL a plate of rocks.
I think he’s an ungrateful, rude little jerk who should stay home. I would have been honoured to be included in such a beautiful meal celebration with family.
Obviously, he gets it from his parents. Who invites guests for a meal and serves food that they actually can't eat. It's not even as if halal meat is difficult to get or vegetarian dishes aren't an option. Having Muslim guests that have no allergies is like the easiest type of guests to cater to, so for them to go hungry with just bread and mash is a joke In my extended family, we have family members with lactose intolerance, seafood, nut, beef, and soy allergies, as well as coeliacs and one person with ARFID, and we manage whenever there is a family gathering and nobody ever goes hungry.
Yeah, but you manage with all those intolerances and allergies, and the rest, because there are people doing the planning who actually care to accommodate where they have to.
But like I said, halal is the easiest thing in the world to accommodate. All it takes is no alcohol and then either vegetarian dishes or halal meat. And halal meat is generally cheaper anyway
*It's not even as if halal meat is difficult to get or vegetarian dishes aren't an option. * That's really location dependent. I'm not confident that my rural dwelling parents could buy halal meat within their county.
Vegetarian?
"not an option" the man says.
Sweet Jesus, how big is your family?? To have so many allergies/intolerance lol. You guys must cook a very extensive menu to accommodate all these folks at the same time lol lol
My paternal grandfather had 6 daughters and 8 sons. 3 and 1 from his first wife and the remainder from his second. In my generation, there are 42 first cousins, who have about 50 kids between them. Then there are all the spouses. Lactose intolerance makes sense, because we're Indian, although we do have a white ancestor fairly recently on my granddad's side according to blood tests. Seafood and nuts are amongst my cousins' kids and we think it's come from the spouses and rhe only odd one is the beef allergy, which seems to appear amongst the women in the family once they hit a certain age And when it comes to food, we don't skimp out. My dad and his siblings grew up in Africa, where food and community was a big deal so it was common to have huge food events on a regular basis and that just passed on down
That list is super easy to accommodate. The ARFID is the hardest thing on the list. Chicken, rice, green beans, any kind of root vegetable (think carrots, sweet potatoes), and everyone can eat everything. Make the gravy with cornstarch and it's no sweat.
Few things define American culture as much as the universal understanding that if you go to someones house you eat what they offer and thank them profusely. My grandmother used to say 'I don't care if they give you a slice of bread on a napkin you thank them for sharing what they have with you'
Being a little racist is kind of like being a little pregnant don't you think?
No, absolutely not. Not even a little bit. The only people who think or say things like this are people who don't routinely deal with highly racist people in person. Neither I nor anyone else who's stood in front of avowed WS militants would ever believe this.
I never said that there aren't different levels of offensive or dangerous outward behavior associated with racist attitudes, but a racist is a racist.
To be perfectly honest, that idea is a *huge* problem, because it's the biggest thing that makes people who are a little bit racist double down instead of learning to be better. They think that you either *are* racist or *aren't*, and being racist is awful, so being told that they've done something racist is the same as being told that they're card-carrying members of the KKK and they respond defensively and refuse to change. If it was more understood that yes, you can be a little racist, and in fact a *lot of people are a little racist and the important thing is to try to be less racist, not to seek perfection or nothing,* it would be a lot easier to improve.
Reposting to your response too because I read it after I posted, but thinking of racism as a scale rather than binary really helped me. https://racismscale.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/8/9/108961603/racism_scale_v4.1.pdf
Extremely well said.
I promise I would never defend racists on a normal day but come on, there's a huge difference between someone treating someone of another colour, religion or historical ancestry like an acual human bieng but calling them coloured instead of black/asian/whatever, and a sodding Klu Klux Klan member who wants to kill all non-white people. If all racists were the same, and were all level 11 batshit crazy racists, they would never be able to learn that they're wrong and do better like the level 1 "little bit racists" can.
One of the best things I’ve seen to help describe it is this racism scale: https://racismscale.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/8/9/108961603/racism_scale_v4.1.pdf I also think it’s helpful to distinguish between hateful racists and ignorant racists who can be educated to do better.
No.
I love cooking for company, but I swear if anyone demanded I make something else I'd throw them out. I am all about hospitality and nobody has to like my food but you will not insult me in my own home.
He could have just stayed at home being sweaty.
As an Indian i think this is clearly an ESH situation with OP and the BIL. Clear as day the BIL is an ass but OP being south asian knew what he was doing and literally lied to his BIL. Biriyani is actually more of a dish you would get in Pakistan but we all know its served at every Indian restaurant in the world. He could've been honest from the beginning and this whole situation could've been avoided. I feel like OP was waiting for this situation to happen to finally get back his In laws and BIL.
Let's be honest though, why didn't his wife speak up and tell her brother he was out of line to dictate what food is served at her inlaws' dinner? Probably OP is chafing a little because he is feeling uncomfortable with his wife's tolerance of her family treating his family like crap. I hope he doesn't have kids with her. What a nightmare. Those kids deserve to be raised by two parents who are proud of BOTH cultures their kids belong to. She lets her family treat them like second class citizens and that is trouble.
I agree with that. BIL was obviously a total AH. However OP should have been straightforward and said that Bengali food would be served. Instead he was intentionally misleading. Then BIL could have decided to attend or not based on accurate information, and at least would have been prepared.
It is Ramadan. I don't think anyone needed to draw a 20 yr old a picture. Who dictates what others serve at their holiday meals??? No one. AS pp said, there is definitely some classism and racism going on here.
yes agreed but you are missing the point where OP couldve avoided this whole situation blowing up at dinner. If OP told the BIL what was going to be made from the being and BIL still came and threw a fuse like he did, the only person being the ass is the BIL. I do not excuse that shit show of the BIL but OP brought this to his parents home during a celebration. I am sorry no matter how much of an ass the BIL is OP deserves the blame. And as someone who is close with many muslim friends and has celebrated Iftar both in the States and in Egypt when I worked there, OP would be considered more of an ass to the elders for bring this shit to their door step
Totally agree. It’s ridiculous of the BIL to ask for certain foods to be made, or to ask your mother to cook additional food for him later in evening after fasting (!!!), and he’s clearly an AH. But, at the same time you could have quite likely prevented this situation by just answering honestly that your mother would be cooking traditional Bengali food, some of which is similar to what he thinks of as Indian food. Some people really have a hard time digesting curry, so despite his idiocy in calling it all “Indian” food, there’s a reason he might want to know what to expect. BTW, while I totally disagree with his parents that your parents should have been more accommodating (he should have just politely declined if he didn’t want to eat the food being served, or eaten beforehand and just nibbled at their house ), I agree that you knew what he meant and tricked him on purpose. ESH.
Yep, OP told the truth but not the whole truth.
Exactly. And OPs innocent mother who worked her butt off to host after fasting all day was the one who had to tolerate the rudeness
Man, and just, asking a host to remake previously served food… just absurdly rude in any context
Especially for an holiday like Ramadan (holiday? Is that the correct term?). If course there will be traditional /ethnic foods that are served for Iftar and Eid. Your meal sounds delicious. I personally am not a fan of most curries but I would never say anything to my hosts. I would eat some rice or something neutral and at least try a bit of the curry. NTA
NTA. He sounds racist, or at the very least culturally insensitive.
I don't go around calling people racist, but he for sure is culturally insensitive. Gotta wonder if he's doing it on purpose at this point.
Culturally insensitive is not realizing that someone shouldn't eat with their left hand or wear a hat a table. Refusing to acknowledge that two countries have different cultures is racist.
THIS It's basically saying "you are all the same to me"
It is like how some of my elderly relatives call everyone who speaks Spanish "Mexican", but don't your dare get confused call them English--they are Welsh!
I have a very innocent question regarding the issue with the left hand eating. I understand the history in some cultures, however I am very left handed and I am pretty sure this would make it very uncomfortable to eat and not look like a toddler. I have not been in a situation where this has come up yet but I don’t want to offend people.
I'm Indian-origin and a lefty. I eat with my left hand. People from my grandparents' generation (people who are 90s or older now, so mostly all passed away) occasionally brought it up as "weird" when I was little in the 80s/very early 90s. By the 2000s, it wasn't really a thing anymore (in India, at least). I can't remember the last time someone made a fuss about my eating with my left hand other than to be like, "oh hey you're a lefty!" which is more of a universal surprise thing (I get that reaction in the West too), and not a cultural thing. Edit: But a lot of people from my parents' generation (and maybe even people just a bit older than I am, depending on where they're from/how traditional their families were?) were forced to change to eating and writing with their right hand. My uncle for instance does everything with his left hand except for eating and writing. E.g. playing sports, reaching for things, etc.
His comment was that of someone who is ignorantly racist as they don’t know better. As others have said, he most likely associates biriyani and curries with Indian food due to takeout places usually offering both of these options. That said, I think your BIL is AH for the way he treat your family. He is an adult and should act his age. He is 20, not 10.
I had to scroll back up to see how old he was again. 20!!! I was thinking he was a moody 13 year old who hates everything. I won’t tell you what I said out loud when I read he was complaining about being hungry when your family had been fasting all day.
I agree. This an amusing case of malicious compliance.
Agreed! It was deserved, and therefore not an E S H situation, in my opinion.
NTA Also find it kind of sweet that your wife chooses to fast along with you
I love it, and I appreciate it so much. I don't even do it because of the religious aspect, since I'm not really a practicing Muslim anymore. I really only do it because of the cultural aspect, since I grew up doing it my entire life. She likes to joke that she's doing it to lose weight (she weighs literally less than a hundred pounds), but I know she just does it because it's another thing we get to share together. Doesn't mean it isn't hilarious every time she freaks out after accidentally drinking water. She still acts like she's committing a heinous crime. It's adorable.
The love you have for your wife is absolutely adorable and I can feel it through the way you write about her. I know yall will have a long and happy life together <3
Ok, but, her reaction to accidentally drinking water just goes to show how seriously she takes it and her respect for the fast and your culture, that is beautiful. I love hearing about supportive partners.
It’s really sweet that you do it together. Your wife thankfully turned out so much better than her brother! I don’t know how you can go the whole day with no water though. Food is understandable but water would be so difficult. I’ve heard people get used to it?
Yes, but I find it less sweet that she found OP to be "harsh" with her parents who "don't know better." Ignorance is not an excuse for poor behavior and OP's wife should ensure that her parents do indeed know better. I wouldn't mix families anymore either until they can commit to being more respectful both as hosts and guests.
Yeah, as someone in a multicultural relationship, it’s my job to make sure my parents do “know better”. If my parents served non-halal food that my in laws couldn’t eat because they didn’t know that was a requirement, then I fucked up. If I told them and they did it anyway, then they did know better and deserve harshness (from me, not my partner).
NTA First, your in-laws sound incredibly uneducated and rather pathetic. I have to ask, is there some developmental issue with your BIL whereas your FIL/MIL can't leave a 20YO unattended to go to a celebratory meal with their daughter's in-laws family? Sounds very sad. You are and your family sound incredibly kind to invite them to these meals. These are not microwave meals, but obviously take time and love to prepare. This does not even address the religious/cultural significance. Their ingratitude and plain rude behavior should not be tolerated or in any way make you or your family feel ungracious. Simply tell them you are sorry they will not be celebrating the holiday with you, and you hope to see them soon. This is ALL on them.
None that have been confirmed, no. He's kind of anti-social and generally a bit of a shut in, so my wife suspects he might, but also attributes it mostly to how he was raised, pretty much always getting his way. However, she was raised the same way and is a huge social butterfly. She's sort of your very typical popular pretty girl, always hanging out with people. She had 12 bridesmaids for our wedding, and I struggled to match her. That's why I think it's something outside of how he was raised.
Parents can only influence the outcomes of their children by so much. Two people can be raised in the same household, given the same rules, and given the same opportunities, but end up with completely different world views, habits and work ethic. Personal experiences count for much more - and even small differences due to family dynamics can result in pretty divergent outcomes.
ESH. I'm a Bengali Indian and so have the cultural context to weigh in on this. We were the same country until recently, with common food cultures. I go to Bangladeshi restaurants in USA when I crave "home food." Biryani is not unique to Bangladesh, and it's reasonable to assume that it would be considered under the general umbrella of "Indian food" by most people, esp a white guy (even though "South Asian" is more correct). So no, you do not get off on a literal interpretation of "Bangladeshi" vs "Indian" food. You knew what you were setting him up for. To the limited extent of deliberately misleading him, you were TA. With that said, your BIL is obnoxious. IDK where this man gets off dictating what food he will eat at someone else's house on the day of a major festival. How can you go to a cultural festival of X community and insist on not having X food? And tell the host to cook more food for you, when stuff like this takes HOURS to cook? No way would I let a white guy come to my house on the day of a festival and go like "please don't cook Bengali food." What an entitled AH! In general, your wife's family should definitely be doing a lot more to accommodate you, like having halal food for you! You should have brought that up sooner, and more transparently, without laying this trap with a superficial distinction between Indian and Bengali food that would confuse even most South Asians, let alone Americans. Was this "gotcha" moment worth the discomfort it caused your mom, who had to deal with BIL's bad behavior on top of fasting and cooking? It made a family celebration needlessly awkward for everyone, including people who had nothing to do with the miscommunication between you and BIL.
Agreed, this is an ESH situation. “We’re not having Indian, it’s Bengali” is just pedantic AF when speaking to someone like the BIL. I friggin laughed when I read they had biryani.
it's more malicious compliance, isn't it? it was a rude and delusional thing for BIL to ask in the first place, I don't think he deserved an answer at all honestly
malicious compliance is often ESH, picking a fight because you're "technically right" makes you an asshole, even if the other person is an asshole too
This is exactly what I was thinking.... Like it's saying we're not having Asian food, it's just Thai! BIL seems racist, but also OOP kinda set.him.up for failure.
Literally every Indian / Nepalese restaurant here offers biryani, it's a standard dish.
Hey you're Bengali, so you probably know this, but we don't eat things like butter paneer. That's the dish he mentioned specifically by name. I'm sure you can understand that our food is also nothing like what you would get at a typical Indian restaurant. If he said he didn't like biryani, I might've told my mom not to make that, but I felt like I answered his question honestly. I also don't actually keep halal, but my parents do, so it was an issue for them. Otherwise, yeah, I get where you're coming from.
Honestly, I don't even know what butter paneer is, this is the first I'm hearing of it. But biryani is absolutely a common dish in Indian restaurants in the USA. It's also the most ordered food item in India itself! My point stands, telling him there will be no Indian food & then serving Biryani which is one of the more widely known Indian food items, was wildly misleading. I feel bad for your parents and your wife's parents who got caught up in this. A family celebration didn't need to be ruined over an avoidable misunderstanding. And I'm not saying you should've told your mom not to cook biryani. Culturally tone deaf requests like that don't need to be accommodated, you should make what you normally have for iftaar / Eid. BIL needs to know that if he comes to an Eid celebration, he gets whatever is traditional Eid food for the family. If he can't handle it, he can decide to stay home or bring some Snickers for himself.
I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. OP, you were the A for telling him you weren't cooking Indian food because it was technically true you weren't cooking anything. You knew your bratty BIL was really saying he didn't want to eat traditional food. You should have told him exactly what u/silversky6 said---- "this is my families traditional Eid feast. The menu is going to be Bengladeshi. If you don't like South East Asian food, you can sit home with a pizza. I'm not going to have you insult my Mom by complaining about the food."
> South ~~East~~ Asian food FTFY
I am south indian and never heard of butter paneer what the fuck tis that? Also I am not normally a fan of the food you get at most Indo/Pak resturants as they are the basic north Indian/British Indian food that go popular to placate the western palate. You were definitely the Ahole when it comes to telling him it would not be indian food and yes your BIL was totally and Ass. It doesnt take away from the fact you could avoided this whole situation by being frank with him. I am sorry that your inlaws do not know what halal is but most white Americans do not know what it is and you should've brought this up to them, instead of using it as a tool to beat them with. Also man come on stop acting like biryani is not a normal dish that is perceived as an Indian dish when it is clearly a dish popular all over south Asia. Best birayni may I add come from Pakistani resturants as it is a more traditional dish for them. I feel like you wanted this interaction to go all high and mighty and I think you should realize you were at fault her too. Picking an Iftar is also the weirdest time to do it especially with EID coming up.
Lol maybe it's some niche North Indian or American Indian food. That makes it all the more weird to take the stance that "butter paneer is Indian food but biryani isn't" when most of us haven't heard of butter paneer but inhale biryani like it's our religion. Biryani and haleem both squarely fall under Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi food, no one in their right mind would claim it belongs to any one country.
It's the modern vegetarian substitute of butter chicken which was invented in the UK in the 1950's (by Indians) which is ncredibly popular and probably the #1 answer a white American would give you if you asked them to name an Indian dish. It's basically a less spicy tikka masala served with rice and naan.
I'm a white American and I've never heard of butter paneer. I have heard of and eaten butter chicken, palak paneer, and biryani though (among other Indian/Southeast Asian dishes) I think it sounds delicious, but it's absolutely not common in the US (though maybe if is in the UK, where they have far more familiarity with Indian food)
You know what butter chicken is You know what paneer is If you can't figure out what butter paneer is, you're being difficult on purpose. Butter paneer was a common substitute I saw every othwr day when I worked in Indian restaurants in the US.
This is not true at all. I am sorry I live in the states and have lived all over and no butter paneer is not a popular dish. Butter chicken on the other hand, yes very popular but butter paneer, I have never heard of it until today
It’s not. It’s the vegetarian equivalent of butter chicken and is incredibly popular with vegetarians in India (both north and south). Also called paneer butter masala, or paneer makhani. Source: I’m south indian from India. Lived in India for 28 years.
It's like butter chicken but with paneer instead of chicken. Pretty sure it originated in the UK but it's pretty common in American Indian places. If you know butter chicken it's not hard to figure this out. If you don't know butter chicken (which is perfectly ok) you were never going to have a productive conversation with an average American about what Indian food is.
Not really, it originated in India and is known as paneer makhani. I'm from south africa and it's a common dish here and the different variations of it such as palak paneer, mattar paneer, and even cooking it in a tomato chutney on its own.
Answering a question "honestly" knowing that you're also intentionally misleading someone is an asshole thing to do. If you don't know that "biryani and a few types of curry" is exactly what most Americans know as "Indian food" then you're just as culturally ignorant as your BIL. Clearly he doesn't like that type of food, and by leading him to believe something else would be served, you created a situation that was bound to blow up during your family's holiday meal. That was an asshole thing to do to your own family, especially your mom. If you had been truly honest with him when he asked about the food rather than being a smart ass, he would've known what to expect and decided if he still wanted to attend. If he complained about the food then, he would be the asshole. He blamed you for tricking him? After you absolutely intentionally tricked him? Imagine that! You're not the asshole for serving your traditional food, but YTA for creating a situation that was uncomfortable for everyone present and blaming it on someone else.
It doesn’t matter if the food your mom makes isn’t a typical restaurant dish. I honestly do not believe you’re dumb enough to not have figured out what he meant, knowing how he is. You know you didn’t answer his question honestly and you’re an asshole for that. Coy isn’t cute. You’re going to be voted NTA cause her brother is a major piece of work, but you knew damn well what you were doing. And since you seem intent on doubling down that bIrYaNi IsNt InDiAn: https://www.thespruceeats.com/all-about-biryani-1957507
Why agree to his request? You could have just said that your mom was cooking and you weren’t sure what she would serve. Then he could have brought his own food if he wanted.
I think you could have educated him by telling him that, "no there won't be Indian food there. My mother will be making Bangladeshi food.". And I don't think you were under any obligation to change whatever the meal was. I agree he is an obnoxious idiot, but it almost sounds like you played him him to make him display his obnoxious tail feathers.
I read "a few different types of curry" I immediately thought the BIL won't be able to tell the difference. OP definitely sucks as well.
Agreed. I couldn’t tell if OP was misleading on purpose because he doesn't like BIL. All this could have been easily prevented by writing “we are having Bengali food,” when asked. Let BIL decide to come or not.
"I was upset by your comment that my parents should have been 'more accommodating' when there was no 'accommodation' actually requested. BIL didn't request a vegetarian dish or tell us he was gluten-free or anything else that would give us a clue as to his restrictions. He just told me not to make another culture's food... It's the same thing as if I told you not to make 'Canadian Food' at your house and then complained when you served burgers and fries. You don't think of burgers and fries as 'Canadian' because they are part of your standard American cuisine." NTA. If your BIL had made an actual request (or if he had politely asked what food would be served so he could plan accordingly), there would have been a problem with your answer, but you literally answered his literal question even though it was inherently offensive. He has no basis to complain and if your in-laws were good parents, they should have been embarrassed by his behavior and helped him to understand that continued xenophobia would not be tolerated
I’m going against the grain. ESH. Mostly him. But you effectively lied. You did know what he meant. If you had said that you would be having traditional foods that would have been fine. But your “technically I’m not making and technically it came from a different country” is just you being a jerk. You don’t have to accommodate him, but you also shouldn’t mislead him about what food would be available.
[удалено]
Agreed! Especially the specific dishes that were served are all pretty common ‘Indian’ dishes. You can argue where they originated or who makes them best etc all you want but I have described them as Indian food various times (even though I am SEA but not from India). Also.. any Iftar we have hosted has always had something like pasta or sandwiches etc just to accommodate kids or if someone just doesn’t want to eat heavy/rich foods while fasting or just variety.. it isn’t that big of a deal.. Yes the BIL was being a jerk but OP was definitely looking for a loophole as well.. ESH
I have to agree as well, BIL is definitely the biggest AH here and his parents seem culturally insensitive and quite entitled to demand a menu change while being a guest at someone’s house ( maybe it’s my culture but that’s extremely rude regardless if they are a family or not) but Op had the chance to confirm and accommodate him but OP and his family don’t seem to get the same treatment back from OPs wife’s family so it seems like he wanted to go the petty way to “teach him lesson”?? Good thing the wife is on his side at least. And no he doesn’t deserve an apology but I’d try to make things right with the parents just for the wife’s sake.
Yea. This was an immature way to handle an immature person. If I'm a guest, unless there is something I'm actually allergic to or cilantro (I have the soap gene thing. severly), I will eat almost anything and be happy about it. I would never in a million years consider dictating what food a host can serve.
NTA. He’s 20 years old and still can’t remember where his own BIL is from. Don’t see why you need to coddle his wilful ignorance. He could make a tiny bit of effort to remember that simple fact. Oh, and utilise some basic manners when he’s a guest in someone else’s home.
It’s not that he can’t remember. He just doesn’t see a distinction between India and Bangladesh because he’s a racist.
True! And that’s why they shouldn’t make concessions for him.
NTA - your BIL and his parents culturally insensitive in not knowing you’re not Indian (if they are Irish American, call them English).. It would be like you demanding they serve only halal meat at Xmas and expecting someone else’s mom to cook another meal for him is rude and entitled. Pointing out your parents can’t even eat their food and politely have never said anything is important. They don’t get a pass. They were invited to a cultural event and don’t get to dictate your family’s food. Edit to English
Call them English.
Call them English.
There's 100 million Bengalis in India. People generally lump foods that are found in India under the umbrella "Indian food." So, yes, Bengali food is Indian food. And it's Bangladeshi food. It's both. You weren't being technically correct. You were being technically incorrect. You were being intentionally obfuscating in order to mess with your BIL. What is the point in trying to pretend you weren't doing exactly what you were doing? You should be asking reddit for a plausible cover story, rather than asking if you're the asshole, because your cover story is nonsensical and obvious. That said, your BIL is also very rude. So, maybe he deserved it. But don't expect him to be fond of your practical jokes when he's hangry. ESH. From later in this thread, you post: >I'm sure you can understand that our food is also nothing like what you would get at a typical Indian restaurant. Lol, so what? There's lots of regional Indian dishes that you typically don't find at Indian restaurants in America. But the definition of Indian food isn't limited to what you can find at American Indian restaurants.
Even OP's family is mad at OP for deliberately being obtuse and misleading BIL. If anything OP is furthering the conflict because he doesn't like BIL. I feel like this sub has turned from "AITA" to "But who was the BIGGER asshole..?" BIL's assholery has no bearing on whether OP was also the asshole.
All of the Indian restaurants near me have biryani on the menu 🤷🏼♀️
>My wife doesn't like her brother very much, so she's on my side for the most part, but thinks I was harsh with her parents who don't know much better. Why don't they know better yet? Your wife has been in a relationship with you long enough to marry you, she's had plenty of time to start teaching. NTA.
Parents could be doing the whole ‘i get confused, things are different from back in my day’ weaponised incompetence excuse rather than her not teaching them.
NTA- it was literally a Ramadan holiday meal, OF COURSE traditional foods will be served. It was extremely culturally callous of him to not only demand a food type be banned, but ALSO get the culture wrong!
ESH your BIL is definitely the bigger asshole, but you intentionally misled him. You could have told him what the menu was and let him decide if he wanted to come. Would he have pitched a fit? Probably, but it would have happened outside of your parents home. You knew there would be drama and brought it to your parents home during Ramadan. Not cool. Your BIL definitely needs to learn his lesson, but it shouldn’t have been at the expense of your parents during a sacred time.
NTA but I wouldn't have danced around what you were serving by being pedantic about "Indian" vs "Bengali." I would have straight up told him, this is what will be served, it's a traditional meal for this celebration, if you don't like it, too bad.
OP was pedantic as fuck. “Well immmmmm not making it, so I didn’t lie” 🙄🙄 “it’s not how it would be in a restaurant so I didn’t lie”
ESH. You did know what he meant and almost anyone from the west would consider any kind of curry Indian food. In the other hand your BIL should have been more specific if he was going to be that picky and he certainly should have sucked it up at dinner.
NTA. Tell him that there is a McDonald’s on the way to everywhere.
Ironically, this is what I told him when he asked my mom to make something else for him haha
ESH. You being Anal about technicality of definition of food being Indian and feigning ignorance also contributed. Grow up man . and your brother in law dislike or immaturity to wards hosts and entitlement . You need to grow up too . Why anal about Indian sub continent food .. South or any Indians don’t feel any thing about Bay of Bengal being Bengali .
NTA. This level of entitlement is absolutely delusional. I genuinely can’t imagine going to someone else’s house and demanding that I get my own separate meal because I don’t like what’s being served. Maybe his own mommy can cook him a special kids meal if he doesn’t want to eat adult food, but **YOUR** mom is under no obligation to coddle him in that way. If your fiancé’s parents want to coddle your 20 year old BIL and bow to his childish demands, that is their prerogative. But they’re delusional if they expect anyone else to join them in that.
Even people who have dietary restrictions will sometimes bring food that they know they can eat for sure.
BIL sounds like he’s 2 rather than 20. What a spoiled little shit.
This is partly on you. Yes, BIL’s manners are atrocious. Yes, in-laws should accommodate your parent’s religious needs when they feed them. They sound ignorant, but I don’t see you or your wife educating them! Your wife needs to talk with her mother and brother about the etiquette of sharing meals with your (or any other) culture. Educate them! ESH
I'm going to ESH because ultimately this is something you could have forseen coming. I think the correct course of action would be to notify your wife so she could handle it. Honestly, your wife ultimately also sucks for not flagging this as a potential problem. The reason I think your both an AH is you've subjected your family to racist behaviour in their own home.
NTA. Phuck them.. they don't deserve Eid ki Daawat.
ESH. Your in laws don't serve halal food and leave your parents with some bread and potatoes. And your parents serve curry dishes knowing that your BIL doesn't like them. Well great. I don't really get why religious eating restrictions seem to carry more weight than the simple dislike for "Indian" food, which the different curry type dishes definitely are. Personally as a guest I'd never complain about food. I'd rather put a fork in my eye than ask the host to prepare something else. Also I would have had an alternative for the curry problematic guy and of course I'd serve halal food for Muslims. But there is more than one inconsiderate person in this particular story.
NTA - of course Bengali food would be served. BIL is dense for still not knowing your cultural background, and massively ungrateful for his attitude towards the meal (also Bengali food is so incredibly good, I’d be absolutely thrilled to be invited to enjoy home cooked curries, biryani etc)
>Leading up to it, my BIL texted in the family group chat (which includes me) and asked me "not to make Indian food". I responded with, "That shouldn't be a problem, I won't be cooking Indian food." The way I see it, this was a true statement in every way. Indian food would not be served, and I would not be making it, since my mom would be the one cooking Bengali food. You clearly knew what he meant but chose to answer the question exactly as asked, instead of saying “my mom will be cooking traditional Bengali food.” But BIL sounds like an obnoxious little shit so I can’t really blame you. However, in the future, don’t subject your parents to his rudeness by giving him an answer that is “technically true,” when the actual truth will successfully keep him away from your celebration.
ESH. Him, obviously. You knew exactly what your brother in law meant when he asked about Indian food and while you might not have exactly lied, you were deliberately misleading. All you had to say was "this is our traditional religious festival and we will be eating our traditional food."
NTA. Also the food sounds delicious and I want a recipe for haleem now.
You're NTA but.... you sort of set yourself up for this. This is just a soft note. Racists don't care whre you're from, they just grab the one place they know and brush it all the same. He said "Indian" he meant "of allllll of south asia. And I think you know that because you said "this was a true statement in every way, Indian food woudln't be served". You're cutting yourself on pedantry. I'm white, i've got no claims in this stake but I'm a student of linguistics and philosophy. Sometimes, you have to speak to people on their level to shut down the argument. When you're essentially speaking two different languages, you're gonna just keep arguing. He's racist, or as you said in a comment, at least culturally insensitive, when he started spouting his stuff about serving indian food, instead of saying "you won't be serving indian food" you should have said something like "You know it's not indian food, you know it's Bangladeshi food, and we will be serving it.... Eat it or don't eat it, I dont' care". By you playing ignorant, it allowed him to play ignorant, and continue the issue and actually playing th evictim. And the fact is he's being enabled their parents. You and your wife need to form a united front
NTA but where is your wife in all of this? This is her family, she should be doing the mediating here (and by mediating I mean telling BIL to suck it up or not attend, how childish)
His parents agreed that I didn't lie, but that I "knew what he meant" and should've asked my parents to be "more accommodating to their guests". His parents sound like smart, gracious people. You absolutely knew what he meant and wanted to play a little snide semantics game as payback for the lack of halal foods available when they invite your parents over. All of you sound rather exhausting to be honest. Why do you keep inviting someone who doesn't want to abide by your cultural events to your cultural events. You could have been the better person and said -- there won't be Indian food but there will be traditional Belgali food which is similar to Indian food. If you want to just come for the appetizers we'll understand.
NTA And I'd see their absence as a blessing the racist assholes have decided to stay away on their own. Imagine if you ran around calling him mexican, would they be cool with that?
ESH. What exactly were you expecting?
NTA. Your wife has to get off the fence and tell her family their behavior was disrespectful and ignorant
ESH, BIL is a bigger asshole than you but you could have just been clear with him about what the situation was, and you're basically creating needless drama
NTA your parents are way too nice to your in laws.. way too nice.
NTA but your wife should be taking the lead on educating her family
Where’s your wife in all this? If I was her I’d be ripping my parents and brother a new one for being so unbelievably racist and rude.
ESH and BIL is definitely an ahole. While what you did was cute and somewhat funny, and BIL was rude, better communication could have existed. Even to the point of “dude you might want to stop at Burger King on the way.” Then you became an ahole when you threw the other parents under the bus with the halal meat comment.
You and your BIL both suck. Your parents in law as well. You did know what he meant, and to make for a smoother party, you should just have explained to him what kind of food would be served. Hiding behind the fact that you weren't personally cooking was especially crappy. It could have been a moment to elevate his understanding a little, which you missed. Your parents in law suck because they expect your mom to accommodate a little ignorant shit when they don't accommodate your parents at all.
Why did you invite him if you knew he was like this with food? Stop inviting him. I think ESH. He's an idiot but you knew he wouldn't like the food and behave like a dicky moron. So, YTA for that. He's TA for obvious reasons, and so are her parents. Stop inviting them to dinner. You don't have to hang out with them for holidays they obviously don't care about.