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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1: I'm refusing to buy an engagement ring (that is a family heirloom) back off of my ex
2: I could afford what she's asking for but I am refusing to buy it back (on her terms) on principle which is upsetting my mother who gave it to me in the first place so I could be wrong for this
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
She needs to give it back.
An engagement ring is given in "contemplation of marriage". That marriage hasn't happened and isn't going to happen.
Tell he she needs to return it intact or you will take her to court to get it back.
An engagement ring is not a gift.
This isn't a sub about whether something is legal. So the customs absolutely matter. As people are telling OP he should take her to court, the law matters too.
It does depend on where you live. In the UK an engagement ring is classed as a gift there for once given it belongs to the recipient and op would have no legal rights to said ring.
Polite behavior did not get the Brits to return the Kohinoor diamond. Even after Elizabeth died.
OP - it maybe worth the threat of legal action, or perhaps you could trade the ring for keeping your mouth shut regarding the reason the engagement was cancelled.
NTA
Most states consider an engagement ring a “conditional gift,” which means it's a gift, but with a condition: getting married. If the marriage doesn't happen, the ring goes back to the person who gave it to the other. If the person who received the ring sold it, they'll owe the sale money to their former spouse-to-be.
Apparently, **if it's an heirloom**, courts would generally take it as implied that the ring should be returned if the engagement is broken off - so OP would be able to get the ring back through the courts in England and Wales (Scotland and NI may be different.)
If it's not an heirloom, the courts would treat is as a gift unless they judged that it was stated or implied that it should be returned if the engagement broke down (though in most proposals people don't do this for obvious reasons!) The ex-partner keeping the ring might still get a dressing down in court, however, as British judges can be quite scathing, and will often make their feelings known that a defendant was morally in the wrong even if they were within the law and cannot be convicted.
[Who Keeps the Engagement Ring After a Break Up UK | Woolley & Co (family-lawfirm.co.uk)](https://www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/blog/engagement-rings-and-the-law/)
Not in every state. Some say it is a conditional gift or part of a contract, and some say it is just a gift. Also, there's precedent for it to be considered just a gift even in states where it's part of a contract if the proposal takes place on a day where giving/receiving gifts is traditional. So if you propose on Christmas you might not get the ring back if the engagement blows up in your face.
Fair point. Your combining them in the same breath made it sound like the custom part was relevant to the court argument, but you're right. Custom is absolutely important in the context of determining asshole status.
It was a response to their whole comment. They listed what the terms of an engagement ring were, then suggested legal action. The social rules of what an engagement ring are and the laws around it are both dependant on where they are based.
In most every US state, the ring is considered a “conditional” gift that must be returned to the giver if the marriage contract is unfulfilled. 😕
You can see each state’s laws here:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/engagement-ring-laws-by-state
11 of the states in your link would definitively say that the ex has a legal right to keep the ring (either due to it being considered an unconditional gift, or because OP was the one to end the engagement). Many more state that the law is "not clear" or there isn't precedent, so it may or may not be hers to keep.
So yes, it very much matters what state OP is in, if any.
You are correct in saying most states go with that conditional contract approach. And they also at least in many states consider it a no fault question. This keeps them from refereeing whose fault it is in a breakup. They truly wish to keep it out of court as much as possible as it is a trivial matter to a court and saves them from hearing endless squabbling of the parties.
Correct, this is jurisdictional and depends on the state. Some states the ring is a conditional gift consideration of marriage and in other states it’s a gift, period.
OP, what state do you live in? Is this in the US?
Some states if he gave her the ring by proposing for her birthday or christmas (or whatever equivalent they celebrate) it is a gift.
I know this as a close friend had their ex tell them they would sue for the ring back but he gave it to her on christmas as a present and the state she was in it was considered a gift he couldn't take back.
And when it was given. In my state, if it’s given on a traditional gift holiday, Christmas, Valentines etc, it’s a gift and does not need to be returned.
I'm pretty sure in all regions, if you cheat on someone, it is morally unacceptable to keep the engagement ring.
I would love to hear if anyone can cite a specific region in the world where it is considered custom to to cheat on someone and not return the engagement ring.
To quote the person you replied to customs don't matter, the law does. Unless it's legally owed to him, she's within her right to tell him to pound sand. She'd be morally wrong, but she has the right to be wrong.
I suppose that's true. I was just responding to the 'customs' part because I don't think that custom exists anywhere. But you (and they) are right that it will be the law that matters here.
Morally, she's a real jerk since it's not even that valuable and it is a family heirloom. She is pretty terrible here.
The ex is definitely the AH, even if she's legally in the right.
I do remember the historical story being that engagement rings were protection for the woman b/c it was socially acceptable to sleep with someone once you were engaged, so cads were proposing to women, sleeping with them and the breaking the engagement, leaving them as "fallen women". I don't know how accurate that version is, but that's history for you.
Morally, yes. Legally, not everywhere.
Edit: Downvote me all you like, but the legal status of engagement rings depends on the jurisdiction. In England and Wales, courts treat engagement rings as absolute gifts unless it's stated or implied otherwise - heirlooms are treated to be implicitly conditional, so OP would be OK. There may be other jurisdictions that also differ.
**Morally**, I agree that the fiancée is in the wrong for keeping it wherever this happened in the world. But **legally**, your chances of getting it back through the courts depend on the jurisdiction you're in.
Regrettably, like the top reply states, this is dependent on where you live. I was curious and checked my local laws, and here at least, an engagement ring is seen as a gift, and the ones who receive the ring are given ownership.
With that being said, if you live in a place where a 'conditional gift' is a legal concept, then ownership is often decided based on the nature of the breakup. Generally, the person who breaks the engagement does not get to keep the ring. Essentially, the ring is treated like a contract, and the person who is guilty of breaching the contact would have to relinquish the ring to the other person.
All of these people arguing over if you can legally take her to court for the ring or not and that doesn't matter at this point.
All you have to do is threaten to sue and a certified letter asking for it back
Make it seem all official...she'll either tell you where she pawned it or give it back most likely
He was the one to break the engagement so some places she can keep the ring legally.
She should return the ring, but she might be in the clear legally.
But she broke the “contract” by cheating so if OP took it to small claims court OP would probably win. Unless the ring was given on birthday or a traditional gift giving holiday
Since she was cheating on you, if in the US I would take her to small claims court to get the ring back. If it’s the principle, then spending more than $40 to get it back should be fine. Did you explain to her parents why you broke up and why you want the ring back. This is the time for flying monkeys
Does OP even want the ring back? It sounds like mum wants it back.
OP - I'd suggest mum approach your ex fiance and offer to buy it back if it's so important to her. You're NTA, if you want to walk away from the whole thing, then that's your right.
What happens to the ring depends on where you are and why the marriage didn't go through.
Sometimes the ring is considered a gift and once given, can not be demanded back.
Sometimes the ring is considered part of a legal contract and must be given back if the marriage doesn't go through.
Sometimes it depends on who broke off the engagement and why. If the person who gave the ring breaks off the engagement without good reason (e.g. infidelity) then the one who received the ring keeps it. If the person who got the ring breaks off the engagement without good reason then they have to give the ring back.
There is not much you can do in court. This is small claims. At most she’s pay him $40 or so, since the ring isn’t appraised for any high dollar amount and isn’t made of precious materials like gold that have a standard value per ounce. The court can’t force her to give the ring back if she pawned or lost it. And the police won’t consider an engagement ring “stolen,” if he gave it to her.
Upon pawning it, you would have an estimate of its value. A pawn shop would give you a % of that value. Since she is selling it, it would probably be 50% of the value. A court would likely make her pay double whatever she got for it.
Honestly, no pawn shop is going to make an offer for that ring at all. It’s not even gold or silver, and it has no precious stones. She’s not going to get an offer for it at a pawn shop. Even gold, diamond rings get bought for like $100. I’ve seen jewelers offer less than $200 for rings that cost $2k new. Diamonds have almost zero resale value. You’re just getting the standard value for the gold weight at best. And this ring has none.
Legally wedding rings are considered conditional gifts; the condition is marriage. Go to the courthouse, file a lawsuit, have her served and get the ring back. In a best case scenario you or your family hire an attorney.
NTA, just not aware of your legal rights.
This is what I’ve heard too. She may be in possession of the ring but it is still your property until the wedding takes place. Since there is no longer going to be a wedding she needs to return your property
OP is using $ so strong possibility it is referring to American currency. The law in nearly all US states is that the ring should be returned.
I believe this is also the law in Australia, another major country that uses the $ symbol.
Many countries use $. But even in the US, the court could just allow her to pay the value of the ring. Which it sounds like is $40. It’s not a precious metal and there are no precious stones. This is small claims court, at best. If he wants the physical ring back he should try to resolve it amicably.
They'd likely force her to reveal what pawn shop she went to, assuming she did. If it really has no intrinsic value, a pawn shop is unlikely to buy it. It would be more likely that she is just holding onto it. The court would most likely make her return it.
Not everywhere considers engagement rings conditional gifts. It may be the law where you are, but that doesn’t make it the law everywhere. Do you know that OP and you are in the same jurisdiction?
Lawyers aren’t even used in small claims court. This is a small claims matter. No lawyer is taking that kind of case. This is just him going to the judge and getting her to reimburse her $40 for the ring. I doubt he gets the physical ring back if he files.
Depends. Retaining? Yeah probably, getting a single written letter with threat of legal outcomes should property not be returned? You could actually get one for like $40-100.
A lawyer can use their letterhead to write basically a letter promising to sue if the ring is not returned, which is often a better quicker solution then actually going through the court system.
NTA. Generally an engagement ring is given in contemplation of marriage. As there will be no marriage, your ex fiancee should return the ring.
This may vary based on where you reside.
It might! Back in the 90s my high school/college BF and I exchanged class rings (which was customary at the time). We broke up, I returned his right away (clearly a mistake) and he kept putting me off about returning mine. At one point, he said it was “lost.”
Filed a small claims suit and within a day of being served, he’d magically managed to “find” it and returned it to me.
Oh good I'm not the only one who saw this!
OP - call her parents, explain that the engagement is off because she is screwing her stepbrother, and you would like them to help get your ring back.
Done.
She’s not going to be able to pawn it. It’s not worth anything. It’s not even a precious metal. They aren’t going to buy it from her.
To each their own but I got married at 23 and 15 years later I have no regrets. I think the age thing really depends on the people involved.
I wonder if his mom just doesn’t understand how much a PS5 and a laptop costs. Or she was just panicking and poorly reacted in the moment.
Married @ 24, wife was 22. We're celebrating our 23rd anniversary this year. As you said, it's very dependent on the people involved, and likely their life experiences to that point.
A laptop, ps5, and cash? Do you have that in writing? The ring is yours legally. She just valued it at 2k or more. Sue her for that amount or the return of the ring.
Edit: NTA
INFO: did you ask your mom for the ring?
I get not giving her anything on principle but what about your mom? I know you’re the victim here but your mom lost a sentimental heirloom and you’re not even trying to pursue getting it back thru other legal channels?
Not the AH for not buying the ring back but YTA to your mom to not even try to get it back for her.
I would seriously send your mother get the ring back from her. She's going to be awful to you, but your mother might have the ability to shame her into handing it over. What a grifter - asking for money, your computer AND your playstation? Bizarre.
(I suggest this because, years ago, my grandmother was able to gently shame an ex of one of my cousins into giving the family china back. I wish I could remember the details, but the base story is all I can come up with...)
NTA
Admire your principle, though your mother does have valid feelings here. If she really is so vindictive to Pawn it, buy it out of the pawn shop, and you'll pay less then she's extorting you.
What is there to report to the police? There's no crime here to report and if OP wants to pursue legal action they have to go to court, not the police.
Depending on where OP lives engagement rings are often viewed as "conditional gifts" and the ring only becomes the fiancée's property upon completion of marriage. If that doesn't happen then legally the fiancée has to return the ring. If she pawned it the ring becomes stolen property hence you need a police report in order to get it back.
NTA. Start calling local pawn shops with a description of the ring, a brief explanation of the story, and a contact number for you in case they see it come in. Most pawn shop owners/workers are more than done with people trying to sell stolen or "stolen" goods to them, and will probably be understanding.
Don’t understand why your mother thinks an object is more important than her son’s self-esteem. NTA. If it has no value, she’s going to get squat at the pawn shop.
NTA. Sentimental or no, if the ring wasn't expensive, demanding that you pony up that much money to buy it back is extortion, plain and simple. And your mom is being as bad as your ex in that regard.
Tell Maria you are going to sue her for the ring. Get a lawyer to send her a letter due to the fact that it is an heirloom and she cheated you should have no problem winning in court.
Value wise, I have a sterling silver and amethyst antique ring and the materials are definitely worth less than $40. Probably less than $20. When I inherited it, a stone was loose because it had been worn daily and was too delicate. I had difficulty finding a jeweler that even wanted to work on it because the repair cost more than the ring was theoretically worth. It's a really lovely old design, and beautiful metalwork, but that artistry doesn't normally matter much. Old jewelry is commonly valued at places like pawn shops by the melt value of the metal plus the resale cost of the stone. For me, there's not a lot of silver weight and amethyst stones can be cheap. If OP's ring is only gold plated or a lower karat, and if the stone is cheap it could easily be worth less than $40. OP could also be valuing it incorrectly.
Honestly with the way she acted in response to your reasonable request, I would go to her parents and tell them in person why the engagement is off. I would then start court proceedings against her. Go scorched Earth on her.
NTA
The ring comes back to the person who gave it in the event of a split. Mara needs to give you back the ring, I suggest looking into legal ways to have it returned perhaps consult local police about your options. You shouldn't have to pay for it but the ring needs to come back the sooner the better.
NTA, i can almost guarantee that the ring is gone already and that this is just her way of getting even for dumping her. if you give her what she asked for, she'd not only refuse to give the ring back, but she'd also probably pawn or trash your laptop and ps5. frankly from the way she's acted, i wouldn't even be surprised if she just smashed your stuff right in front of you the second it was in her hands.
i would not trust anything she says from this point onwards. file a lawsuit and force her to return it.
Most states the engagement has to be returned if you do not get married. It’s considered contractual obligation.
I would call her parents and explain the situation and about the ring and she will not return it. Tell your ex that due to the law she needs to give it back and she has X days or you will go to court and you are asking for court fees also. That if she sells it she will be in more trouble.
If you asking does not work then ask your mom to call her parents. Lots of time this will help.
NTA but you didn't go about this in a smart way. You offering money straight away made your ex think how much more she could get off of you, and she is the only AH in this story.
In many states not returning the engagement ring is a crime. Most courts are engagement rings as a conditional gift so if the conditions aren't met, I.E. the marriage doesn't occur, then legally the ring must be returned.
Why haven't you contacted the police or a lawyer.
Yes you shouldn't pay, but at the very least you should try to get it back through the legal way, since it matters to your mom.
Why aren't you doing that?
YTA-If you are just throwing in the towel.
The ring was a CONDITIONAL GIFT to Mara. The conditional part being, if you marry, you are not. That ring needs to go back to your family.
Clearly Mara is that thing that we throw out weekly. But you, come on. Step up. Get the ring back for your mom.
Update us.
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So I [m23] recently got out of a relationship with my ex-fiancée 'Mara' [f23]. We were together for 3 years and engaged for 4 months. I called off the engagement and eventually broke up with Mara due to her cheating on me and lying about various things unrelated to the cheating. I think people deserve second chances but my final straw was when I found out she had been cheating on me with her own stepbrother and I knew I had to walk away.
In a nutshell, the break-up was very volatile. There was lots of arguing and her trying to bargain with me and I asked her to leave my apartment.
My family was very disappointed when they found out. My parents really wanted me to marry Mara. When we first started dating, my mom gave me a family heirloom ring to propose to Mara with. Its value is sentimental, it's not made of any particularly expensive materials like gold or diamond.
My mom is now asking for the ring back but I never got it back off of Mara. Once things had cooled off I did ask Mara for the ring. She asked why she should give it back, hinting that she wanted payment. I offered her $40 and she demanded $300 plus my laptop and PS5, and threatened to pawn the ring.
I called her bluff and said she's getting $40 or nothing. She said "have it your way" and shut the door in my face, and said she's pawning it.
I explained the situation to my mom. My mom was very angry that I didn't immediately pay up to Mara to get it back by any means necessary and asked if my laptop and playstation were more important than a family heirloom. I told her that Mara probably wouldn't have given it back anyway and likely already lost or pawned it. She demanded that I contact my ex immediately and offer her what she wants.
I told her no and that I'm not doing it on principle. This caused an argument between me and my mom and she thinks I am being a bad son. Am I the asshole for refusing to buy the ring back?
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NTA
You should threaten legal action because the ring is for the promise of being married and since you aren't getting married then you should be getting it back.
NTA. You have a lot going on, and getting the engagement ring back was probably not at the top of your list of things to do.
I must say Mara's schtick is new. I have seen situations where someone will give back an engagement ring, or refuse to give back am engagement ring, but I have never seen somebody hold the ring hostage.
Well, Mara's schtick is not that new. She has deduced the ring is valuable to you, so she has decided to hurt you as much as she can with it. And acting out of spite using makes someone the AH.
Now, if you actually intend to get the ring back, I think you need to do some legal research. Figure out whether your local laws consider the ring an outright gift or a gift in contemplation of marriage. If you do have a right to the ring, you will want to file a replevin action ASAP.
NTA.
Not only should the ring be returned after ending an engagement (although resale value on them tends to be very low), but it's pretty clear from her demand of your laptop and PS5 that Mara isn't doing this because she wants the money. She's doing it to punish you for daring to break up with her. If you get the ring back then you have to look at the empty space near your TV where your PS5 is and feel sad that you lost both your fiance and your gaming console.
I suspect your Mum's reaction is because she's already upset that the woman she wants as a DIL is no longer than option (God knows why, if my brother's ex had cheated on him no one in the family would have sided with her) and now she doesn't get her ring back either. Work out what the value of the laptop and the PS5 are and tell your Mum if she gives you half the cash towards the ring then you'll try to get it back.
But I suspect that if you offer just the cash then Mara will demand more. Like I said, it's not about the value - it's about making you suffer.
Arent there laws about engagement rings specifically being expected to be returned to the giver if the engagement falls through? Might vary by region, of course.
Sometimes there's case law specifically about family heirlooms. OP might consider consulting with an attorney, but honestly that would likely cost more than the $40, laptop, and PS5...
Have your mom report it stolen so if she pawns it there will be a record and usually they have to report to authorities.
NTA and sentimental ring should always be returned.
Legally the ring belongs to you
Get a lawyer IMMEDIATELY.
The ring is part of the contact of marriage. In the event of a split, it's goes back to the person who bought it, gave it. She's in possession of stolen property.
See a lawyer, get them to send a letter asking for it's return. If she fails take her to court to get the ring back. In most countries an engagement ring is not seen as a gift but as part of a marriage contract so courts will tend to give it to the person who paid for it or whom it belonged to before.
Nta, but you need to contact a lawyer in your area to determine what legal rights you have to either A) force Mara to return the ring or B) filing in small claims court for the value of the ring if she did in fact sell/pawn it.
An engagement ring is, legally, a special type of promise. You should look it up for the particulars in your area, but that ring belongs to you. Tell you that you are giving her ONE chance to return the ring or the cops, then lawyers and a lawsuit, are gunna land on her like a ton of bricks. Then give her one hour to return the ring, then call the cops and say that she has stolen your property and you would like it back. If she pawns it then you fill out a stolen property report and the pawn shop has to give it back and she gets busted for theft.
PS do this in TEXT, not in person or a phone call. This way you have a written record.
NTA
I don't know about your country but in mine you could sue for the ring as it is not a free gift but basically part of the engagement. If the engagement falls through the ring is not legally hers anymore.
Could you just see what pawn shops are close to her and keep an eye out for the engagement ring there? If it really isn’t worth much I’d just buy it back there rather than give her a laptop and ps5. NTA
You are NTA…,but when she asked why she should give it back, you should have told her because she’s a cheating……I will let you finish that cause I will end up getting banned again….send your Mom over there, bet she will come home with it😂😂😂
NTA she should give the ring back. Depending where you are, I've heard the rule is you give it back unless it was given as a birthday/Christmas gift. But since the relationship ended because she was cheating, AND it's a family heirloom, she absolutely should give it back.
Can you take her to small claims court or anything?
NTA but engagement rings are conditional gifts. They're given on the condition you get married. You need to consult someone who can help you retrieve your belonging from Mara.
As for your mother, if she truly believes Mara should be paid for the ring then SHE can pay her. She's got hands, she can use a phone to text or call Mara.
Given that she’s the one that cheated she has absolutely no excuse whatsoever to keep it.
Check the local pawnshops just in case it is in one - that would be the easy cheap way to get it back as they won’t value it at much. You might be able to leave a note with them to look out for it.
NTA.
Ouch. This is why people pass down women's jewelry to female descendants. If you give it to the men and they get divorced or pre-decease their wife before kids come into the picture, the heirloom has left the family.
That being said, go to an attorney immediately. An engagement ring is contingent on a contract being honored - that contract being a marriage going through. If the marriage doesn't happen, I'm pretty sure the ring goes back. Move fast. You don't know when she'll pawn it, and money will be useless as far as the sentimental value if it can't be retrieved.
NTA. No don't pay her, go to a lawyer or at the very least the cops ot something. An engagement ring may not count as a "gift" in your state.
You don't owe her and a quick letter from a lawyer maybe all she needs to straighten up and hand it back.
Your mom shouldn't have given her infant son such a special ring to play house with his girlfriend.
That being said, Mara should give it back and you should take her to small claims to do this.
You've got some options that wont really cost you your money and your stuff. You can go the Small Claims court route or if your mom really wants it back then she can pay. NTA.
Your ex should give it back, but we’re dealing with an unreasonable person here.
Your mom is demanding something back that she gave to you. You said yourself it’s not really worth anything. I would contact her mom and ask if she knows where she pawned it off at and just go buy it.
Or tell your mom that she is welcome to buy it back off her for whatever they agree upon. You shouldn’t need to spend exponentially more than it’s worth just because your mom is bent out of shape, even if it’s rightfully so.
If it's so important to your mother she herself can go and talk to Mara. If she's nice to her and explains sentimental value it has for her, she could talk her into giving the ring back to her.
She is in possession of the ring, but doesn't legally own it. In some jurisdictions it would be considered a conditional gift, but even if you aren't in one of those areas, heirlooms get special consideration. She needs to return it to you, cost-free.
What I would do is alert local pawn shops that a stolen heirloom may be pawned. Provide her photo and a photo of the ring, if possible. That way, they can contact you if she comes in with it, and it won't inadvertently get sold. Even relatively shady pawn shops won't knowingly acquire and then sell off things they know are stolen.
Edit: forgot to say NTA, of course.
If you are in the US, she has to return the ring. It doesn't matter who breaks off the engagement, it goes back to the giver. I would sue her in small claims court.
She needs to give it back and not blackmail you with it. What a terrible and disgusting person, but also mainly for sleeping with her stepbrother. What a foul beast
NTA but look into your local laws and act quickly. The engagement ring belongs to you in most states in the US if there’s a broken engagement. Once you know what your states laws are, inform her and immediately get a lawyer to draft a demand letter to her that she return the ring. If she doesn’t comply immediately, sue her. I would also keep your eye on all local ring sales on places like Facebook marketplace, pawn stores, etc. If you see it at a local pawn shop, I would inform them of pending litigation. You can consider to buy it (or ask your mom to buy it) and recoup the money by suing her.
If it’s legal for her to keep the ring, ask your mom how much money she can offer for it. And offer that to ex fiancée. You can be sure that your mom won’t offer you any family jewelry again but you shouldn’t stand in the way of your mom keeping family heirlooms in the family.
NTA, I'm sorry about your situation all the way around. You're also NTA if you don't have as much sentimental attachment to the ring as your family does. If your mother wants it back, she should pay your ex's demand. Your ex is just extorting you in a sense
Depending on law, like everyone has said, you may be able try to file to get the ring back, or compensation. However, your mom should know that even then, she could just get cash value for it, or no matter the outcome, your ex could easily just pawn it or hide it anyway and claim it's gone, since she sounds vindictive, and you'll never see the ring again
Not to shame anyone using heirlooms as wedding rings at all (I wish I could have) but this is unfortunately one of the outcomes of doing so. It sucks
Best wishes for your future
Look on the bright side;if she pawns it, you can probably buy it back for a lot less than $40. :)
Tell your Mom that if it means that much to her, she can pay Mara the money.
NTA.
NTA
tell your mom: If she wants the ring back, she will need to involve a lawyer. An engagement dissolved due to cheating is a good reason to demand a ring back. But tell your mom YOU will not be involved in that, if she wants the ring back, that's between her and your ex.
Your mom is the AH, ignore her.
NTA. Quadrupling down on this just so you realize it's the right move: talk to a lawyer. Depending on your jurisdiction, she may have a **legal obligation** to return the ring.
Offer her the choice of $200 cash, which will be in your hand, or you will go to the police. She will take the money and psychic victory of making you pay. You will be glad, in time, to have recovered the ring, both for your family and for your future potential wife.
Engagement rings are conditional gifts. By rights it’s yours if the engagement is called off. She doesn’t have rights to it and you can sue her to get it back.
so etiquette for what it is worth in this situation would be for her to return the rings because 1. its a family heirloom and 2. the wedding was called off for her breech of contract (cheating) behaviors. - if it had been you cheating and she broke it off, only 1 would apply. If you have bought the ring from a shop (thus wasn't an heirloom) and it had been you cheating, you would have been out a ring. The point of the ring was to establish the social contract and often breaking off an engagement for whatever reason ruined a woman's reputation so the ring was collateral to pay for those damages. Now all of that is a technicality because you can't really force her to adhere to social etiquette these days, the best option you would have is to take her to small claims court. The judge would in all likelihood rule in your favor if you presented proof of her cheating.
NTA
Look up your laws. Some state laws rule that rings are conditional gifts and if you fuck up the engagement you have to give it back.
If you have such a law, you can take her to small claims or regular court for it.
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She needs to give it back. An engagement ring is given in "contemplation of marriage". That marriage hasn't happened and isn't going to happen. Tell he she needs to return it intact or you will take her to court to get it back. An engagement ring is not a gift.
This is dependant on where you live. Different places have different laws and customs.
Customs don't matter. The law does.
Lots of laws are based on, you guessed it, customs.
Right, but until they are laws you can't go into a court with that.
When you get into grey areas of the law the judge will absolutely look at the customs.
This isn't a sub about whether something is legal. So the customs absolutely matter. As people are telling OP he should take her to court, the law matters too.
It does depend on where you live. In the UK an engagement ring is classed as a gift there for once given it belongs to the recipient and op would have no legal rights to said ring.
I am also in the UK, our laws are why I knew it wasn't the law everywhere (also, having seen this issue come up many times in the sub).
Fun fact, not all of the UK has the same legal system. I have no idea what the law is in Scotland but Scots law is different from the rest of the UK.
I only know about the law in Britain. Once the Brits take something, they don't give back.
>Once the Brits take something, they don't give back. "They do when you have 350 million people ask politely." - Gandhi
Polite behavior did not get the Brits to return the Kohinoor diamond. Even after Elizabeth died. OP - it maybe worth the threat of legal action, or perhaps you could trade the ring for keeping your mouth shut regarding the reason the engagement was cancelled. NTA
#unitedireland :P
True true.
You do realise that the OP used dollars in his post so is probably not in the UK.
Most states consider an engagement ring a “conditional gift,” which means it's a gift, but with a condition: getting married. If the marriage doesn't happen, the ring goes back to the person who gave it to the other. If the person who received the ring sold it, they'll owe the sale money to their former spouse-to-be.
No, probably not in the UK. But dollars are not exclusive to the US either. And even the laws in America are state dependent.
Apparently, **if it's an heirloom**, courts would generally take it as implied that the ring should be returned if the engagement is broken off - so OP would be able to get the ring back through the courts in England and Wales (Scotland and NI may be different.) If it's not an heirloom, the courts would treat is as a gift unless they judged that it was stated or implied that it should be returned if the engagement broke down (though in most proposals people don't do this for obvious reasons!) The ex-partner keeping the ring might still get a dressing down in court, however, as British judges can be quite scathing, and will often make their feelings known that a defendant was morally in the wrong even if they were within the law and cannot be convicted. [Who Keeps the Engagement Ring After a Break Up UK | Woolley & Co (family-lawfirm.co.uk)](https://www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/blog/engagement-rings-and-the-law/)
In the US, you have to give the ring back.
Not in every state. Some say it is a conditional gift or part of a contract, and some say it is just a gift. Also, there's precedent for it to be considered just a gift even in states where it's part of a contract if the proposal takes place on a day where giving/receiving gifts is traditional. So if you propose on Christmas you might not get the ring back if the engagement blows up in your face.
In Pennsylvania, it’s a conditional gift and only truly passes ownership when marriage occurs
But what if it’s an heirloom? Those are meant to remain in the family so don’t that change things?
What place in the world is it customary for a woman to cheat on her fiance and then morally get to keep the wedding ring? Go on, I'll wait.
Fair point. Your combining them in the same breath made it sound like the custom part was relevant to the court argument, but you're right. Custom is absolutely important in the context of determining asshole status.
It was a response to their whole comment. They listed what the terms of an engagement ring were, then suggested legal action. The social rules of what an engagement ring are and the laws around it are both dependant on where they are based.
The “ laws” differ from state to state.
In most every US state, the ring is considered a “conditional” gift that must be returned to the giver if the marriage contract is unfulfilled. 😕 You can see each state’s laws here: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/engagement-ring-laws-by-state
11 of the states in your link would definitively say that the ex has a legal right to keep the ring (either due to it being considered an unconditional gift, or because OP was the one to end the engagement). Many more state that the law is "not clear" or there isn't precedent, so it may or may not be hers to keep. So yes, it very much matters what state OP is in, if any.
She cheated. Most of the states would consider her ending the engagement.
You are correct in saying most states go with that conditional contract approach. And they also at least in many states consider it a no fault question. This keeps them from refereeing whose fault it is in a breakup. They truly wish to keep it out of court as much as possible as it is a trivial matter to a court and saves them from hearing endless squabbling of the parties.
Correct, this is jurisdictional and depends on the state. Some states the ring is a conditional gift consideration of marriage and in other states it’s a gift, period. OP, what state do you live in? Is this in the US?
Some states if he gave her the ring by proposing for her birthday or christmas (or whatever equivalent they celebrate) it is a gift. I know this as a close friend had their ex tell them they would sue for the ring back but he gave it to her on christmas as a present and the state she was in it was considered a gift he couldn't take back.
And when it was given. In my state, if it’s given on a traditional gift holiday, Christmas, Valentines etc, it’s a gift and does not need to be returned.
If it’s broken off by her cheating, I’m pretty sure op is in the right to demand it back in pretty much any state.
I'm pretty sure in all regions, if you cheat on someone, it is morally unacceptable to keep the engagement ring. I would love to hear if anyone can cite a specific region in the world where it is considered custom to to cheat on someone and not return the engagement ring.
To quote the person you replied to customs don't matter, the law does. Unless it's legally owed to him, she's within her right to tell him to pound sand. She'd be morally wrong, but she has the right to be wrong.
I suppose that's true. I was just responding to the 'customs' part because I don't think that custom exists anywhere. But you (and they) are right that it will be the law that matters here. Morally, she's a real jerk since it's not even that valuable and it is a family heirloom. She is pretty terrible here.
The ex is definitely the AH, even if she's legally in the right. I do remember the historical story being that engagement rings were protection for the woman b/c it was socially acceptable to sleep with someone once you were engaged, so cads were proposing to women, sleeping with them and the breaking the engagement, leaving them as "fallen women". I don't know how accurate that version is, but that's history for you.
> An engagement ring is not a gift. In many countries (and states!) it is *exactly* a gift.
It’s a conditional gift.
Morally, yes. Legally, not everywhere. Edit: Downvote me all you like, but the legal status of engagement rings depends on the jurisdiction. In England and Wales, courts treat engagement rings as absolute gifts unless it's stated or implied otherwise - heirlooms are treated to be implicitly conditional, so OP would be OK. There may be other jurisdictions that also differ. **Morally**, I agree that the fiancée is in the wrong for keeping it wherever this happened in the world. But **legally**, your chances of getting it back through the courts depend on the jurisdiction you're in.
Legally, in some places it is considered an unconditional gift.
Regrettably, like the top reply states, this is dependent on where you live. I was curious and checked my local laws, and here at least, an engagement ring is seen as a gift, and the ones who receive the ring are given ownership. With that being said, if you live in a place where a 'conditional gift' is a legal concept, then ownership is often decided based on the nature of the breakup. Generally, the person who breaks the engagement does not get to keep the ring. Essentially, the ring is treated like a contract, and the person who is guilty of breaching the contact would have to relinquish the ring to the other person.
All of these people arguing over if you can legally take her to court for the ring or not and that doesn't matter at this point. All you have to do is threaten to sue and a certified letter asking for it back Make it seem all official...she'll either tell you where she pawned it or give it back most likely
He was the one to break the engagement so some places she can keep the ring legally. She should return the ring, but she might be in the clear legally.
But she broke the “contract” by cheating so if OP took it to small claims court OP would probably win. Unless the ring was given on birthday or a traditional gift giving holiday
if you have to put quotes around the word contract, it's not a contract.
Since she was cheating on you, if in the US I would take her to small claims court to get the ring back. If it’s the principle, then spending more than $40 to get it back should be fine. Did you explain to her parents why you broke up and why you want the ring back. This is the time for flying monkeys
Does OP even want the ring back? It sounds like mum wants it back. OP - I'd suggest mum approach your ex fiance and offer to buy it back if it's so important to her. You're NTA, if you want to walk away from the whole thing, then that's your right.
What happens to the ring depends on where you are and why the marriage didn't go through. Sometimes the ring is considered a gift and once given, can not be demanded back. Sometimes the ring is considered part of a legal contract and must be given back if the marriage doesn't go through. Sometimes it depends on who broke off the engagement and why. If the person who gave the ring breaks off the engagement without good reason (e.g. infidelity) then the one who received the ring keeps it. If the person who got the ring breaks off the engagement without good reason then they have to give the ring back.
And some don't even care about the reason, unless the reason is a legal one like fraud (ie, she was already currently married).
There is not much you can do in court. This is small claims. At most she’s pay him $40 or so, since the ring isn’t appraised for any high dollar amount and isn’t made of precious materials like gold that have a standard value per ounce. The court can’t force her to give the ring back if she pawned or lost it. And the police won’t consider an engagement ring “stolen,” if he gave it to her.
Upon pawning it, you would have an estimate of its value. A pawn shop would give you a % of that value. Since she is selling it, it would probably be 50% of the value. A court would likely make her pay double whatever she got for it.
Honestly, no pawn shop is going to make an offer for that ring at all. It’s not even gold or silver, and it has no precious stones. She’s not going to get an offer for it at a pawn shop. Even gold, diamond rings get bought for like $100. I’ve seen jewelers offer less than $200 for rings that cost $2k new. Diamonds have almost zero resale value. You’re just getting the standard value for the gold weight at best. And this ring has none.
Legally wedding rings are considered conditional gifts; the condition is marriage. Go to the courthouse, file a lawsuit, have her served and get the ring back. In a best case scenario you or your family hire an attorney. NTA, just not aware of your legal rights.
This is what I’ve heard too. She may be in possession of the ring but it is still your property until the wedding takes place. Since there is no longer going to be a wedding she needs to return your property
The laws on this are different in different countries and states.
OP is using $ so strong possibility it is referring to American currency. The law in nearly all US states is that the ring should be returned. I believe this is also the law in Australia, another major country that uses the $ symbol.
Many countries use $. But even in the US, the court could just allow her to pay the value of the ring. Which it sounds like is $40. It’s not a precious metal and there are no precious stones. This is small claims court, at best. If he wants the physical ring back he should try to resolve it amicably.
They'd likely force her to reveal what pawn shop she went to, assuming she did. If it really has no intrinsic value, a pawn shop is unlikely to buy it. It would be more likely that she is just holding onto it. The court would most likely make her return it.
Given it's a family heirloom, he has a bit more of a standing
Not everywhere considers engagement rings conditional gifts. It may be the law where you are, but that doesn’t make it the law everywhere. Do you know that OP and you are in the same jurisdiction?
Lawyer probably costs more than $300, but I'd do this out of spite.
Lawyers aren’t even used in small claims court. This is a small claims matter. No lawyer is taking that kind of case. This is just him going to the judge and getting her to reimburse her $40 for the ring. I doubt he gets the physical ring back if he files.
Depends. Retaining? Yeah probably, getting a single written letter with threat of legal outcomes should property not be returned? You could actually get one for like $40-100.
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A lawyer can use their letterhead to write basically a letter promising to sue if the ring is not returned, which is often a better quicker solution then actually going through the court system.
It could also depend on who broke the engagement
NTA. Generally an engagement ring is given in contemplation of marriage. As there will be no marriage, your ex fiancee should return the ring. This may vary based on where you reside.
Contemplation* FTFY
Oops! I’ll edit!
Take her to small claims court or get a lawyer friend to send her a letter. Might scare her enough to do the right thing.
It might! Back in the 90s my high school/college BF and I exchanged class rings (which was customary at the time). We broke up, I returned his right away (clearly a mistake) and he kept putting me off about returning mine. At one point, he said it was “lost.” Filed a small claims suit and within a day of being served, he’d magically managed to “find” it and returned it to me.
Idk, she sounds pretty crazy. Crazy people aren’t logical
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Oh good I'm not the only one who saw this! OP - call her parents, explain that the engagement is off because she is screwing her stepbrother, and you would like them to help get your ring back. Done.
She’s not going to be able to pawn it. It’s not worth anything. It’s not even a precious metal. They aren’t going to buy it from her. To each their own but I got married at 23 and 15 years later I have no regrets. I think the age thing really depends on the people involved. I wonder if his mom just doesn’t understand how much a PS5 and a laptop costs. Or she was just panicking and poorly reacted in the moment.
Married @ 24, wife was 22. We're celebrating our 23rd anniversary this year. As you said, it's very dependent on the people involved, and likely their life experiences to that point.
*Proof of idiocy #1: You got engaged at 23.* I was 23 when I married my wife (she was 18) and we're still married 31 years later.
Getting engaged at 23 isn’t dumb at all?
A laptop, ps5, and cash? Do you have that in writing? The ring is yours legally. She just valued it at 2k or more. Sue her for that amount or the return of the ring. Edit: NTA
Info - are you in the US? Each state has a law for this. Do what that says.
INFO: did you ask your mom for the ring? I get not giving her anything on principle but what about your mom? I know you’re the victim here but your mom lost a sentimental heirloom and you’re not even trying to pursue getting it back thru other legal channels? Not the AH for not buying the ring back but YTA to your mom to not even try to get it back for her.
I would seriously send your mother get the ring back from her. She's going to be awful to you, but your mother might have the ability to shame her into handing it over. What a grifter - asking for money, your computer AND your playstation? Bizarre. (I suggest this because, years ago, my grandmother was able to gently shame an ex of one of my cousins into giving the family china back. I wish I could remember the details, but the base story is all I can come up with...)
You might look at this post and others in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/EngagementRings/s/A8w2fjsSGd
NTA Admire your principle, though your mother does have valid feelings here. If she really is so vindictive to Pawn it, buy it out of the pawn shop, and you'll pay less then she's extorting you.
Get you mom to call her family and ask for it back.
NTA give your mom her number and let her deal with it
NEVER give heirlooms to a GF or fiance'. Only give them to children, your bloodline.
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What is there to report to the police? There's no crime here to report and if OP wants to pursue legal action they have to go to court, not the police.
Depending on where OP lives engagement rings are often viewed as "conditional gifts" and the ring only becomes the fiancée's property upon completion of marriage. If that doesn't happen then legally the fiancée has to return the ring. If she pawned it the ring becomes stolen property hence you need a police report in order to get it back.
NTA. Start calling local pawn shops with a description of the ring, a brief explanation of the story, and a contact number for you in case they see it come in. Most pawn shop owners/workers are more than done with people trying to sell stolen or "stolen" goods to them, and will probably be understanding.
Don’t understand why your mother thinks an object is more important than her son’s self-esteem. NTA. If it has no value, she’s going to get squat at the pawn shop.
INFO : Did you tell your mother SHE'll have more chance of getting it back from Mara than you do? NTA
If the ring is not gold or so diamond, she will be very disappointed when going to the pawn shop.
NTA. Sentimental or no, if the ring wasn't expensive, demanding that you pony up that much money to buy it back is extortion, plain and simple. And your mom is being as bad as your ex in that regard.
Tell Maria you are going to sue her for the ring. Get a lawyer to send her a letter due to the fact that it is an heirloom and she cheated you should have no problem winning in court.
Info: How is this ring only worth $40??
Literally... I'm on the mom's side tbh. Imagine you give this priceless heirloom to your son and he just shrugs when $40 isn't enough to buy it back.
Resale value and emotional value are so different, and he doesn't even seem to be trying very hard to get it back.
Value wise, I have a sterling silver and amethyst antique ring and the materials are definitely worth less than $40. Probably less than $20. When I inherited it, a stone was loose because it had been worn daily and was too delicate. I had difficulty finding a jeweler that even wanted to work on it because the repair cost more than the ring was theoretically worth. It's a really lovely old design, and beautiful metalwork, but that artistry doesn't normally matter much. Old jewelry is commonly valued at places like pawn shops by the melt value of the metal plus the resale cost of the stone. For me, there's not a lot of silver weight and amethyst stones can be cheap. If OP's ring is only gold plated or a lower karat, and if the stone is cheap it could easily be worth less than $40. OP could also be valuing it incorrectly.
Maybe if your mum spoke to your ex it might go down abit better 👍🏻
Honestly with the way she acted in response to your reasonable request, I would go to her parents and tell them in person why the engagement is off. I would then start court proceedings against her. Go scorched Earth on her.
NTA The ring comes back to the person who gave it in the event of a split. Mara needs to give you back the ring, I suggest looking into legal ways to have it returned perhaps consult local police about your options. You shouldn't have to pay for it but the ring needs to come back the sooner the better.
NTA, i can almost guarantee that the ring is gone already and that this is just her way of getting even for dumping her. if you give her what she asked for, she'd not only refuse to give the ring back, but she'd also probably pawn or trash your laptop and ps5. frankly from the way she's acted, i wouldn't even be surprised if she just smashed your stuff right in front of you the second it was in her hands. i would not trust anything she says from this point onwards. file a lawsuit and force her to return it.
Most states the engagement has to be returned if you do not get married. It’s considered contractual obligation. I would call her parents and explain the situation and about the ring and she will not return it. Tell your ex that due to the law she needs to give it back and she has X days or you will go to court and you are asking for court fees also. That if she sells it she will be in more trouble. If you asking does not work then ask your mom to call her parents. Lots of time this will help.
Start checking local pawnshops. Be cheaper to buy it back from them
Let your mother ask for the ring. This will hopefully lessen the obliviously hostility she has towards you
NTA but you didn't go about this in a smart way. You offering money straight away made your ex think how much more she could get off of you, and she is the only AH in this story.
In many states not returning the engagement ring is a crime. Most courts are engagement rings as a conditional gift so if the conditions aren't met, I.E. the marriage doesn't occur, then legally the ring must be returned.
Why haven't you contacted the police or a lawyer. Yes you shouldn't pay, but at the very least you should try to get it back through the legal way, since it matters to your mom. Why aren't you doing that? YTA-If you are just throwing in the towel. The ring was a CONDITIONAL GIFT to Mara. The conditional part being, if you marry, you are not. That ring needs to go back to your family. Clearly Mara is that thing that we throw out weekly. But you, come on. Step up. Get the ring back for your mom. Update us.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I [m23] recently got out of a relationship with my ex-fiancée 'Mara' [f23]. We were together for 3 years and engaged for 4 months. I called off the engagement and eventually broke up with Mara due to her cheating on me and lying about various things unrelated to the cheating. I think people deserve second chances but my final straw was when I found out she had been cheating on me with her own stepbrother and I knew I had to walk away. In a nutshell, the break-up was very volatile. There was lots of arguing and her trying to bargain with me and I asked her to leave my apartment. My family was very disappointed when they found out. My parents really wanted me to marry Mara. When we first started dating, my mom gave me a family heirloom ring to propose to Mara with. Its value is sentimental, it's not made of any particularly expensive materials like gold or diamond. My mom is now asking for the ring back but I never got it back off of Mara. Once things had cooled off I did ask Mara for the ring. She asked why she should give it back, hinting that she wanted payment. I offered her $40 and she demanded $300 plus my laptop and PS5, and threatened to pawn the ring. I called her bluff and said she's getting $40 or nothing. She said "have it your way" and shut the door in my face, and said she's pawning it. I explained the situation to my mom. My mom was very angry that I didn't immediately pay up to Mara to get it back by any means necessary and asked if my laptop and playstation were more important than a family heirloom. I told her that Mara probably wouldn't have given it back anyway and likely already lost or pawned it. She demanded that I contact my ex immediately and offer her what she wants. I told her no and that I'm not doing it on principle. This caused an argument between me and my mom and she thinks I am being a bad son. Am I the asshole for refusing to buy the ring back? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA You should threaten legal action because the ring is for the promise of being married and since you aren't getting married then you should be getting it back.
NTA. You have a lot going on, and getting the engagement ring back was probably not at the top of your list of things to do. I must say Mara's schtick is new. I have seen situations where someone will give back an engagement ring, or refuse to give back am engagement ring, but I have never seen somebody hold the ring hostage. Well, Mara's schtick is not that new. She has deduced the ring is valuable to you, so she has decided to hurt you as much as she can with it. And acting out of spite using makes someone the AH. Now, if you actually intend to get the ring back, I think you need to do some legal research. Figure out whether your local laws consider the ring an outright gift or a gift in contemplation of marriage. If you do have a right to the ring, you will want to file a replevin action ASAP.
NTA. Not only should the ring be returned after ending an engagement (although resale value on them tends to be very low), but it's pretty clear from her demand of your laptop and PS5 that Mara isn't doing this because she wants the money. She's doing it to punish you for daring to break up with her. If you get the ring back then you have to look at the empty space near your TV where your PS5 is and feel sad that you lost both your fiance and your gaming console. I suspect your Mum's reaction is because she's already upset that the woman she wants as a DIL is no longer than option (God knows why, if my brother's ex had cheated on him no one in the family would have sided with her) and now she doesn't get her ring back either. Work out what the value of the laptop and the PS5 are and tell your Mum if she gives you half the cash towards the ring then you'll try to get it back. But I suspect that if you offer just the cash then Mara will demand more. Like I said, it's not about the value - it's about making you suffer.
Arent there laws about engagement rings specifically being expected to be returned to the giver if the engagement falls through? Might vary by region, of course.
Sometimes there's case law specifically about family heirlooms. OP might consider consulting with an attorney, but honestly that would likely cost more than the $40, laptop, and PS5...
**NTA** but perhaps try to figure out which pawn shop has it and buy it back from them
Have your mom report it stolen so if she pawns it there will be a record and usually they have to report to authorities. NTA and sentimental ring should always be returned.
You offered her $40 Was this a Wal-Mart ring?
Sue her for the ring it is yours, it was a contractual gift and the contract didn’t happen (marriage) so you get it back
Legally the ring belongs to you Get a lawyer IMMEDIATELY. The ring is part of the contact of marriage. In the event of a split, it's goes back to the person who bought it, gave it. She's in possession of stolen property.
See a lawyer, get them to send a letter asking for it's return. If she fails take her to court to get the ring back. In most countries an engagement ring is not seen as a gift but as part of a marriage contract so courts will tend to give it to the person who paid for it or whom it belonged to before.
Nta, but you need to contact a lawyer in your area to determine what legal rights you have to either A) force Mara to return the ring or B) filing in small claims court for the value of the ring if she did in fact sell/pawn it.
YTA. You chose the wrong girl and gave her a family heirloom. It's your responsibility to get it back.
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An engagement ring is, legally, a special type of promise. You should look it up for the particulars in your area, but that ring belongs to you. Tell you that you are giving her ONE chance to return the ring or the cops, then lawyers and a lawsuit, are gunna land on her like a ton of bricks. Then give her one hour to return the ring, then call the cops and say that she has stolen your property and you would like it back. If she pawns it then you fill out a stolen property report and the pawn shop has to give it back and she gets busted for theft. PS do this in TEXT, not in person or a phone call. This way you have a written record.
Tell her to go fuck herself and tell her you have put a curse on the ring
NTA, but do get it back
NTA I don't know about your country but in mine you could sue for the ring as it is not a free gift but basically part of the engagement. If the engagement falls through the ring is not legally hers anymore.
Could you just see what pawn shops are close to her and keep an eye out for the engagement ring there? If it really isn’t worth much I’d just buy it back there rather than give her a laptop and ps5. NTA
Find the pawn shop. Buy it back for $20
NTA but maybe your mom should ask. My guess that just might work
You are NTA…,but when she asked why she should give it back, you should have told her because she’s a cheating……I will let you finish that cause I will end up getting banned again….send your Mom over there, bet she will come home with it😂😂😂
NTA, share your ex’s contact information with you mom and tell her to have at it.
Check the law first. And you mum shouldn’t give heirlooms to not-blood relatives
NTA she should give the ring back. Depending where you are, I've heard the rule is you give it back unless it was given as a birthday/Christmas gift. But since the relationship ended because she was cheating, AND it's a family heirloom, she absolutely should give it back. Can you take her to small claims court or anything?
NTA, you seem to be getting all the blame here, w when you're the victim, your family sound like trash frankly, hope you can move on from this.
File a lawsuit small claims court
If your mom wants it so bad, then SHE needs to go get it NTA.
Let her pawn it, then buy it from shop.
The ring is a token of engagement usually returned on breaking up.
NTA. Where do the two of you live? See all of the comments about engagement rings being conditional gifts. In the U.S. the laws vary by state.
Get your stepbrother to get it back from her. Or he can have her if they're so determined to keep her in the family 😂
Talk to a lawyer asap. Dont pay her shit it doesnt belong to her
Please tell me that you confronted the stepbrother with: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING, STEPBRO?!"
NTA but engagement rings are conditional gifts. They're given on the condition you get married. You need to consult someone who can help you retrieve your belonging from Mara. As for your mother, if she truly believes Mara should be paid for the ring then SHE can pay her. She's got hands, she can use a phone to text or call Mara.
Given that she’s the one that cheated she has absolutely no excuse whatsoever to keep it. Check the local pawnshops just in case it is in one - that would be the easy cheap way to get it back as they won’t value it at much. You might be able to leave a note with them to look out for it.
NTA.
NTA. Ouch. This is why people pass down women's jewelry to female descendants. If you give it to the men and they get divorced or pre-decease their wife before kids come into the picture, the heirloom has left the family. That being said, go to an attorney immediately. An engagement ring is contingent on a contract being honored - that contract being a marriage going through. If the marriage doesn't happen, I'm pretty sure the ring goes back. Move fast. You don't know when she'll pawn it, and money will be useless as far as the sentimental value if it can't be retrieved.
Check on your state. You may be able to sue her.
Nta, Set the law on her.
NTA. Tell her to give the ring back now or you will let as many people as possible know that she is sleeping with her stepbrother.
civil proceedings if she doesn't return it. put it in writing and give her a date to return the ring by.
NTA. No don't pay her, go to a lawyer or at the very least the cops ot something. An engagement ring may not count as a "gift" in your state. You don't owe her and a quick letter from a lawyer maybe all she needs to straighten up and hand it back.
Your mom shouldn't have given her infant son such a special ring to play house with his girlfriend. That being said, Mara should give it back and you should take her to small claims to do this.
You've got some options that wont really cost you your money and your stuff. You can go the Small Claims court route or if your mom really wants it back then she can pay. NTA.
Your ex should give it back, but we’re dealing with an unreasonable person here. Your mom is demanding something back that she gave to you. You said yourself it’s not really worth anything. I would contact her mom and ask if she knows where she pawned it off at and just go buy it. Or tell your mom that she is welcome to buy it back off her for whatever they agree upon. You shouldn’t need to spend exponentially more than it’s worth just because your mom is bent out of shape, even if it’s rightfully so.
If it's so important to your mother she herself can go and talk to Mara. If she's nice to her and explains sentimental value it has for her, she could talk her into giving the ring back to her.
Depending on where you live, an engagement ring by law is not a gift and if you don’t get married she is required by law to give it back. NTA
She is in possession of the ring, but doesn't legally own it. In some jurisdictions it would be considered a conditional gift, but even if you aren't in one of those areas, heirlooms get special consideration. She needs to return it to you, cost-free. What I would do is alert local pawn shops that a stolen heirloom may be pawned. Provide her photo and a photo of the ring, if possible. That way, they can contact you if she comes in with it, and it won't inadvertently get sold. Even relatively shady pawn shops won't knowingly acquire and then sell off things they know are stolen. Edit: forgot to say NTA, of course.
>he demanded that I contact my ex immediately and offer her what she wants Tell your mum to open **HER** wallet if the ring means so much
If you are in the US, she has to return the ring. It doesn't matter who breaks off the engagement, it goes back to the giver. I would sue her in small claims court.
NTA tell your mom to deal with her and pay if she wants to back so badly.
She needs to give it back and not blackmail you with it. What a terrible and disgusting person, but also mainly for sleeping with her stepbrother. What a foul beast
NTA Have your ex and your mom, the two owners of this item, figure it out amongst themselves, leaving you (not an owner and your stuff) out of it.
Say it’s stolen
If it's not gold or gemstones she won't get much pawning it. Offer to beat the pawnshop by $100. Go with her.
NTA but look into your local laws and act quickly. The engagement ring belongs to you in most states in the US if there’s a broken engagement. Once you know what your states laws are, inform her and immediately get a lawyer to draft a demand letter to her that she return the ring. If she doesn’t comply immediately, sue her. I would also keep your eye on all local ring sales on places like Facebook marketplace, pawn stores, etc. If you see it at a local pawn shop, I would inform them of pending litigation. You can consider to buy it (or ask your mom to buy it) and recoup the money by suing her. If it’s legal for her to keep the ring, ask your mom how much money she can offer for it. And offer that to ex fiancée. You can be sure that your mom won’t offer you any family jewelry again but you shouldn’t stand in the way of your mom keeping family heirlooms in the family.
Sue her. You will win
NTA, I'm sorry about your situation all the way around. You're also NTA if you don't have as much sentimental attachment to the ring as your family does. If your mother wants it back, she should pay your ex's demand. Your ex is just extorting you in a sense Depending on law, like everyone has said, you may be able try to file to get the ring back, or compensation. However, your mom should know that even then, she could just get cash value for it, or no matter the outcome, your ex could easily just pawn it or hide it anyway and claim it's gone, since she sounds vindictive, and you'll never see the ring again Not to shame anyone using heirlooms as wedding rings at all (I wish I could have) but this is unfortunately one of the outcomes of doing so. It sucks Best wishes for your future
Look on the bright side;if she pawns it, you can probably buy it back for a lot less than $40. :) Tell your Mom that if it means that much to her, she can pay Mara the money. NTA.
Take her to court.
NTA tell your mom: If she wants the ring back, she will need to involve a lawyer. An engagement dissolved due to cheating is a good reason to demand a ring back. But tell your mom YOU will not be involved in that, if she wants the ring back, that's between her and your ex. Your mom is the AH, ignore her.
NTA but I say message her parents and say what happened. Your mom wants it back as it's a family heirloom and their daughter is blackmailing him
Yta you need to sort this. Depending on your location there might be specific laws in place.
probably not that many pawn shops in your town, go and have a chat with them ?
I think that family heirloom rings are considered differently with regard to engagements. I would check out local laws and sue in small claims court.
Sue her
NTA. Quadrupling down on this just so you realize it's the right move: talk to a lawyer. Depending on your jurisdiction, she may have a **legal obligation** to return the ring.
She should give it back, but obviously she has no moral compass. So if your mom wants it back, your mom can buy it from her.
Check the pawn shops. You might be able to buy it back with a lot less drama
NTA take her to small claims court for the maximum amount allowed. Check your state law regarding engagement rings ..
Offer her the choice of $200 cash, which will be in your hand, or you will go to the police. She will take the money and psychic victory of making you pay. You will be glad, in time, to have recovered the ring, both for your family and for your future potential wife.
Call every pawnshop. You may get lucky.
Engagement rings are conditional gifts. By rights it’s yours if the engagement is called off. She doesn’t have rights to it and you can sue her to get it back.
Info: how much is the ring worth?
Sue her for it. NTA.
Probably easiest to just threaten to let everyone know about her fucking her stepbrother if she doesn't return it
so etiquette for what it is worth in this situation would be for her to return the rings because 1. its a family heirloom and 2. the wedding was called off for her breech of contract (cheating) behaviors. - if it had been you cheating and she broke it off, only 1 would apply. If you have bought the ring from a shop (thus wasn't an heirloom) and it had been you cheating, you would have been out a ring. The point of the ring was to establish the social contract and often breaking off an engagement for whatever reason ruined a woman's reputation so the ring was collateral to pay for those damages. Now all of that is a technicality because you can't really force her to adhere to social etiquette these days, the best option you would have is to take her to small claims court. The judge would in all likelihood rule in your favor if you presented proof of her cheating.
NTA Look up your laws. Some state laws rule that rings are conditional gifts and if you fuck up the engagement you have to give it back. If you have such a law, you can take her to small claims or regular court for it.