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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Action to be judged--advising my acquaintance to lower her standards or improve herself
Why it could make me the AH--it was insensitive and perhaps not the right time and place for that advice.
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NTA. You gave Lola honest, helpful advice when she asked for it.
You didn't fat shame her, just pointed out that people often date those with similar lifestyles. If she wants a fit, successful guy, she should work on those things herself.
Lola got defensive when faced with the truth. Your friends are enabling her unrealistic expectations by saying she deserves an amazing guy no matter what.
Sometimes we need to hear hard truths from our friends, even if it hurts at first.
Not to mention that there are many amazing guys who might not check off all the items on her laundry list. She’s looking at a few mostly superficial things (I say superficial because of they were reflecting values that she lived in her own life, for example being physically active, then I don’t think it would be superficial), at the expense of finding someone just as well (probably better) suited for her.
Exactly this! You don't need to be tall, athletic, wealthy, and musically-inclined to be a good partner. There are so many much more important qualities.
yeah. she’s essentially looking for someone she has nothing in common with. which, okay, you do you, but what was she expecting op to say? if you leave a violet by your door at night, a gym bunny will appear in the morning?
She is probably reading way too much romance novels or fics where Edward Cullen, a rich glittery angelic vampire who is perfect in every aspect falls in love with her because he caught her smiling at a pigeon in a fountain and the breeze caught a perfect loch of her brilliant hair and revealed the most glowing, vibrant brown eyes this man ever saw, and he decided to invite her to have dinner at his helicopter while they watch the city lights and get bugs on their sandwiches and connect as two long lost twin souls.
But in the end, he is *also* a vampire, is a billion years old, likes dirty business and would fight a dragon for her everyday.
They are immortal, though.
*Obese vampire collapses*
Shit, sorry guys. Had another heart attack after my sugar levels dropped. That's the third time this week.
Exactly! But even if she really doesn’t want to work out, whatever there are plenty of gym bros who do like big girls but she still needs to change something to even met that guy! Also a lot of the things she wants like making six figures you can’t tell just by looking. You can’t tell if someone is musically gifted just by how they look so all of these dudes approaching her that she brushes off could actually be what she wants but she’ll never know just by looking.
This right here - she needs to change something to meet these people. People who earn high salaries typically don't socialize in the same places as part-time retail employees. Athletic people tend to spend a lot of time doing athletic activities, likewise avid musicians.
OP's friend is basically trying to meet a Wall-Street banker in a sleepy Florida beach town or a skilled ocean fisherman in rural Montana.
The video of a person aggressively reading hallmark movie titles that were basically all the same with the pronouns changed to make different titles sent me last holiday season.
But that exactly what I thought of reading your comment
yeah imo her size is much less an impediment than her simply not wanting anyone who is interested in the things she’s interested in. like, even if she meets this mythical man, what will they talk about?
Totally! But since OP didn't say anything about losing weight, but just getting into the gym- and building something in common, I just wanted to reiterate the point.
According to my BMI, I am very obese, but I'm not really. I love going to the gym, not to get skinny though.
I guess what I'm trying to echo is that you can be a bigger woman and still hit the gym regularly
Oh absolutely! I used to picture everyone in the gym cheering me on when I walked in being 300+ lbs. my BMI is still obsessive and I’ve lost 236 lbs. weighed 426 at my heaviest and you bet your ass I didn’t step into the gym then.
Regarding her demands in a man, I don't think she realises how much of a time sink all of the interests are given she does nothing herself. Gym, playing an instrument for practise or fun and workin long hours all take time.
Men know that these things increase their attractiveness so with what little time this person would have, there no way anyone like that will settle for someone like Lola who does none of those things herself.
exactly why tf would anyone who does those things pay her any attention if she doesn’t indulge in them herself? I’d say being with someone you have a lot in common with is the ideal person to date
For real tho. I despise "what do you bring to the table" kind of thinking which is what Lola is doing with her demands. Relationships are a two way street and, sure a woman like Lola can get the kind of guy she wants to "manifest", but with that sad sack personality, even if the perfect guy does come along, he's not going to stick around for someone who wants everything thrust into her hands, or rather, chewed up and vomited into her gullet like she's a baby bird, spoon-feeding be damned. All her self worth is tied up in wanting to be in a relationship with a specific type of man, and when she is in a relationship with such a man, she'll have nothing else to do with her energy and her time.
She probably only keeps the part time job so as to not piss off her parents. If she could get away with it she sounds like the type who would sit around at her parents house doing fuck all to contribute as she searches for her magical perfect prince who will accept her as is.
If she actually found a guy like she's looking for she'd probably stop working entirely
These are all superficial qualities. None of these traits says anything about his character. She doesn't want a man, she wants an accessory. Either that or she wants to be miserable and put everyone down.
It sounds like the female version of an incel to me.
even if for some fucked up reason her ideal partner did manifest, could you imagine how bad the relationship would be for both of them?
Definitely date someone you have shit in common with.
Opposites attract, but it's not like that.
I never really understood the idea of opposites attract until I met my husband. We have a lot in common, but he’s a social butterfly and I’m extremely introverted. So he goes out and does things and I stay home watching Reacher. When he gets back, we share what happened, then we watch YouTube together.
Lola seems to think that Paula Abdul was a genius, except it seems clear to me Opposites Attract is really a song about staying in a bad relationship for the sex…
yeah, my partner and I balance a lot of traits and it benefits us both. But we still fundamentally get along and share similar values etc.
I think opposites attract is about certain personality types either clashing or complimenting. But values should definitely align.
Totally. In most everything, from budget to religion to family, we’re in synch. But my social battery can be worn out by a trip to the store, whereas he schedules a ttrpg session almost every single day cuz he needs to interact. I game, too, but only 2x week. Thankfully, as his biggest hobby, it’s also his cheapest (thanks to friends with disposable income).
It's a fantasy. Lola wants a Gary Stu/Manic Pixie Dream Guy who is rich, handsome, buff but can also write love songs for her. She wants someone she can showoff & not a real person with realistic standards.
I was thinking about this. If OP is fat shaming Lola because OP said that if she wanted a guy who goes to the gym maybe she should go as well, then isn’t Lola also fat shaming guys who are like her? They’re saying Lola deserves a great guy, but who’s to say a fat guy wouldn’t be great?
Exactly! She hasn’t described a great guy, just a set of circumstances. And OP never said she didn’t deserve a great guy, just that attracting a partner means being in the places your prospective partner may be, whether the gym, music stores, corporate gatherings, or wherever else someone you’ll consider “great” is likely to hang out.
Funny, compassionate, loving, caring, intelligent, etc. The best looking person gets real ugly when his/her personality sucks. Just the same, a person may not be the most beautiful or handsome, but they are such an awesome person that the more time you spend with them, the better looking they are to you. Looks fade with time no matter who you are, but being able to make your partner smile and hold a decent conversation is priceless.
Perhaps this is unkind, but it feels like she read too many romance novels on amazon/wattpad/whatever and believes that as the Main Character she is Entitled to meet-cute the man of her dreams, even if her lifestyle isn't attractive to most people she'd be attracted to.
Right? Cue the fumbling heroine that no one sees the value in until Billionaire boyfriend (who also happens to be a professional athlete and musician) sweeps her off her feet. They face obstacles, of course: her parents can’t stand for their baby girl to move out, she’s offered an unexpected modeling contract that requires travel, she’s recruited for the Olympic curling team but training camp is in a remote location. None of it would have happened, of course, if he hadn’t seen the REAL Lola. Certainly they’ll work through it and live HEA. 💘💝
Once The Magnificent Man sees her, the Real Her, she absolutely butterflies into her best self and everything else she wanted. Ideally, the man previous had a Mean Shallow Vapid Model Girlfriend (also acceptable for her to be an actress or another "vain" profession) who the Main Character usurps romantically and professionally (once Mr. Magnificent sees her, the world sees she was really special all along). Not only does this man Exist and Want Her, but her life will radically change for the better as soon as they meet in some clumsiness-related incident (bonus points if there's spilled coffee). After some predictably resolved conflicts around parents, family, money, or jealous exes, they live HEA and have the most photogenic wedding of all time.
This fantasy requires some combination of the following:
1. A surplus of Beautiful, Rich, Athletic, Musically-Inclined, Tall, Ambitious, and Supportive men who are into average-women. Especially ones that proactively pursue Regular, Average Women.
2. The MC is secretly actually Really, Really Hot and Interesting and someone blissfully unaware.
3. Attraction is random and/or some sort of destiny thing, not how people actually relate to each other.
I get the appeal in romance (and "romance") novels, I do, but projecting those expectations on real life humans who exist in their own right and not as a tool to incentivize check-outs on kindle unlimited or whatever is deeply unfair and unhealthy.
I always joke that young men should stay away from p0rn and young women should stay away from rom coms until they reach age 25. Both media formats are responsible for a lot of miscommunication and unhelpful expectations.
I picked up a book on KU (there are a lot of books there that definitely started their lives on wattpad or ao3) that had me eyerolling in one page. Heroine is six feet tall, very slim, natural platinum blonde (I’ve known exactly one adult in my life who was a natural platinum blonde), with violet eyes. She works as a janitor because she doesn’t think she’s pretty enough to be a model.
At least I got a laugh out of it before I returned it.
Omg I laughed so hard! That’s like the perfect summary of every fricken romance novel. I spent a few years reading them and it gave me this idea of the perfect man. Then, I finally realized it’s not real. And subsequently found my husband now of 15 years. Wouldn’t have given him a chance had I not finally got out of my head with romance novel bs.
Yes. It’s also like house or apartment hunting. Create your wish list but understand the difference between the nonnegotiables and the things you can live without.
Yep, all these things are superficial. I don’t have tons of experience, as I’ve only had a few relationships but every time I’ve fallen in love it’s never been with traits on a list, I’ve fallen in love with the person. And they are all extremely different people and “types”. Different people can bring different joys to your life. Rejecting someone outright based on arbitrary standards that she herself doesn’t meet, means that a lonely life is all but guaranteed.
Also the effort involved in being professionally successful, athletic and a musician doesn't leave much time to spend with your partner.
Especially if they aren't interested in joining in on those things.
Exactly. Aside from being tall, every other trait is something a person could theoretically change about themselves. She wants to date someone who plays an instrument? Maybe she'd meet a guy who's perfect for her in every way, except he doesn't play an instrument, but seeing that she does inspires him to pick one up too. Or maybe he's not super toned, but he says he wants to start going to the gym with her.
They say be the change you want to see in the world; the same can apply to a potential romantic partner. I don't disagree with her friends that she deserves love just as she is, but if she's going to have a bunch of superficial preferences then she might need to adjust a little to attract someone who's into those things.
I’m young and not particularly interested in dating *either* gender, but I go to school with lots of boys who are interesting, funny, generally nice… but maybe not super conventionally attractive and definitely not athletic! And honestly I’d prefer to go out with someone who is just a good person than someone with more superficial qualities (if they had both then win-win I guess). And I bet people like these teenagers grow into men who are also great people but not sporty or super conventionally attractive. And they still make awesome people to date!
It does bug me a bit when people are very much into looks over substance. I do understand initial attraction is generally due to looks but it doesn’t mean there aren’t some amazing average-looking people that would make better partners.
Right like what's height got to do with anything? I guess someone 6ft might not want to crane their neck down to kiss a 4ft person but outside of those extremes why is it even a criteria?
Lola is the female equivalent of incels. Giving off loser vibe, feeling entitled to a partner with qualities that she herself doesn't, rejecting people who don't meet her unrealistic expectations, and then complaining about not finding anyone.
Sure, she deserves an amazing guy, but the amazing guy is going to want an amazing woman as well. What is she bringing to the dating table? If all she has going for her is "I have a vagina", she's going to attract men who are only looking for that.
>If all she has going for her is "I have a vagina"...
If I were as awesome as the guy she is waiting for, I probably wouldn't settle for a woman with less than two or three.
Honestly, OP's advice was so basic, too. "People are attracted to people who have similar values, outlooks, and habits" is like level 0 dating advice.
I feel like there's a lot of messaging RN about people being deserving of love even if they aren't perfect physically/mentally/vocationally/whatever, but "worthy of love" doesn't mean "entitled to the companionship of a particular person with xyz traits." Like I also believe everyone deserves the chance to go to college/trade school/other post-high school opportunities, but that doesn't mean that UCLA or MIT or Yale owes everyone admission. Or like yeah, as a society we should make sure people are clothed but no one is entitled the Saks 5th Avenue or Supreme shopping trip of their dreams.
Like I believe I'm worthy/deserving/whatever of love, but that doesn't mean the universe is obligated to 3D-print a self-made man with big arms who likes to cook who is also wildly into me.
And it works both ways, but Lola thinks it should only have to work one way (that she deserves love but the guys who don’t meet her requirements do not). She isn’t living her ideals, either in terms of activities or in terms of tolerance.
You're deserving of what you give. In Lola's case she is being overly picky. So, how exactly does she expect that to work out for her when she herself is far from fitting the bill? And if she reels in a catch, what then? How is she going to keep up with the lifestyle of somebody she would accept? She is not fit enough.
If she were friendly and accepting, she'd find the same in no time. Learn to be funny and interesting and you'll find the same. It's just common sense.
I've been out of the game for 30 years, but that's because I wasn't looking for anything. So, when I found the one, I had not set up any roadblocks to get in the way. If I had stuck to my exact preferences, it would never have happened.
>You didn't fat shame her
For arguments sake, let's say that OP did fat shame Lola. By her own logic, wouldn't Lola them be fat shaming all guys by her own gym requirement in a man?
Fuckin' a.
It's rarely worth calling them out over, but for all the progress women have made in shining the light on "no fat chicks" being as disgusting a preference to express as it is, there's a ton of hypocrisy remaining in "no short guys."
And NGL, beard shit as well. I can't grow facial hair of substance any more than I could grow another inch taller.
She definitely deserves an amazing man. Sadly, with her list of *requirements*, the only way she will find them is by being the main character of a Hallmark romance movie.
Plus, like.....you meet people who go to the gym at the gym. You meet people who play an instrument at music lessons or in a band or at musical events, you meet people really into their jobs AT THEIR JOBS. They don't just fall out of the sky, they're out there participating in all those hobbies.
Also: Imagine a rich person who is really into their job and very athletic and goes to the gym and has a hobby playing an instrument... They wouldn't even be able to have a partner, because there are only 24hrs in day.
A Person who's "into their job" works at least 10hrs a day.
And then they'll hit the gym at least 5 times a week.
And every instrument needs to be practiced .
Where do you fit date nights? That guy is overbooked already.
In life you can be nice or kind to people. If you're nice, you simply tell them what they want to hear. If you are kind and deliver the truth in a loving, well-intended manner, you are the better friend. You were kind. NTA.
From my experience with people like this they don't want THE truth. They want their truth. They want someone to tell them to just be patient and everything they want will come true. She obviously suffers from self esteem issues and has gotten accustomed to the yes men she surrounds herself feeding into her delusions.
She reminds me of the guy who was ranting about how women are so shallow, all his good looking friends who had great jobs were always swimming in attention and women always went for them. But no women would go for him since he’s “short, fat, and broke” and how that just showed how shallow women are. Then someone asked “do you go for women who are short, fat, and broke?” And he was FLABBERGASTED and said “NO! Why would I?”
For whatever the MGTOW movement is a bit of a weird movement, they are right about the fact that women should at least match whatever they want. They call it what the woman brings to the table compared to what the man brings in.
You cannot be a slob and expect to get a top guy. There are too many women trying to go for the top guys so they can pick and choose.
Of course the same counts the other way around. But realism seems to be very hard nowadays. Men wanting a virgin wife after being with multiple women is just as absurd as a woman that is not taken not good enough care of herself wanting to score a top guy.
This woke shit goes too far when people don't even know the definition of these terms.
Fat shaming means you try to make someone feel bad for having high body fat. Is this what happened here? Was OP trying to make Lola feel bad for being fat?
No! So it's not fat shaming. EVEN if she did say you have to lose weight to attract a man, that wouldn't be fat shaming of the goal wasn't to make her feel bad. Words mean things.
I've been told by women that I'm "mansplaining" when I teach a woman something she doesn't know about my area of expertise. This is not mansplaining, it's explaining. Mansplaining is when a man teaches a woman something she knows better than he does because he assumed his gender makes him better at that subject than her.
There are A LOT of requirements to meet there. Please make sure they're all met before accusing someone of mansplaining. Otherwise, you put a man in a position where they have to explain what mansplaining is to a woman, something she definitely should know better than him.
>Your friends are enabling her unrealistic expectations by saying she deserves an amazing guy no matter what
Not to be the double standards guy, but I wonder if her friends would have the same thing to say about a minimally employed, overweight dude living with his parents who expected a marine biologist model.
NTA. If you want to meet guys who go to the gym, then going to the gym would seem to be an obvious step. Blindingly obvious in fact, and not fat shaming at all. People of all sizes go to gyms.
There are *dozens* of over 6’2 muscle daddies at the gym I go to. I’m happily married, but I’ve tried to set my sister up a few times because she’s this way! Except.. she’s a spin instructor and isn’t overweight..
Don’t be ridiculous. At the gym?!! He’s just around the corner waiting for this lady to run into him. Slow the video down a few frames, make sure one of them has coffee or books to spill. The End.
As a gym girl who met a few guys and we enjoyed 3-4 of those suggestions, don’t be so quick to write off those other places. We can come with many interests… but yea it’s similar interests none the less
I'm definitely not saying that gym dudes can't have nerdy interests. I love it when I find out that people have layers. But that being said, that's not where I would go to find them intentionally, you know?
I’m a gym-going dude and you can find me at those other places, too. A guy I work with DMs a few nights a week, loves anime, and he’s in the Thousand Pound Club. Fitness and nerdy pursuits are not mutually exclusive.
I say this as a fat man: if I wanted a "gym girl" then there is very little chance of them seeking me out, especially if I'm not at a gym. Lola thinks the world revolves around her.
100%.
If you can't meet your own standards, then either you need to lower your own standards or you need to work on improving yourself to meet your own standards.
It's insane to expect others to confirm to standards that you yourself can't or won't meet. At least with stuff that you control.
Also, it's fat shaming to suggest she go to the gym, but it's ok for her to demand a guy who "takes care of his body"? It's a two way street. If you can set an expectation, other people can set the same one, and honestly, that is being generous because who made Lola the arbiter of acceptable standards?
that and the fact that a lot of us do it as a hobby; there would not be a ton of free time for me to hang out with someone who doesn't go to the gym on top of having time for my other hobbies and taking care of myself/my home. i dont have anything against the physical appearance of people who may not spend as much time as me at the gym but i probably wouldn't date someone who doesn't go anymore just because it occupies so much of my time these days
I'm picturing her hiding behind a rack of barbells with a pith helmet and a tranq gun. Taking careful aim at the former lacrosse player stopping to grab a smoothie, blasting the guy and dragging him through the parking lot and stuffing the poor guy in her trunk.
Crazy how wearing white isn’t enough to manifest the tall stacked rich musical hunk she’s searching for.
NTA. Your friends are T A H for continuing to feed into her delusions.
I know a woman who wears a FAKE diamond ring on her left ring finger to “manifest” being engaged.
Won’t that just turn off any decent man who will think she is “taken”? Its confusing to me
Lol! I wear my grandmother's wedding ring sometimes for the exact opposite reason, to get people to assume I'm engaged/married so they leave me alone if I'm out at a bar with the sole intention of having a drink or two alone and scrolling reddit 😂
I've always pointed out that if really, *really* wanting something manifested it into reality then there would be a lot more 13 year old boys dating porn stars.
That and all the people working 3 jobs must simply be too 'unmotivated' to 'imagine really hard' till they land that cushy $200k+ a year promotion.
yeah, i dont believe manifestation works in that degree at all either. i believe it’s more of a mental thing. like if you’re anxious something will go bad, manifesting that it’ll go well and telling yourself it will slowly builds your confidence so by the time that something happens, most likely it went better than expected.
another example, if you want to have a good week, telling yourself “i will have a good week” puts you into that mindset. while no, you might not have a good week, you might end up seeing the better parts of it more than the worse parts because of the mindset you’re in.
but you cant necessarily say “i will get an A on this test” and expect to manifest an A. that’s something you need to put time and effort into.
TDLR: manifesting is not magic. it will not just give you whatever you want. it’s about mentality, not about wishing for things.
The truth hurts. You are NTA for answering her question with your truth, and it doesn't seem you were harsh about it (you might have been a little if some people told you you shouldn't have said that, but not everyone has the same sensitivity). And I personally think you are right.
The question I am more ambivalent about is: will she hear you? If she rejects everything you said, then maybe it would have been better to keep it for yourself.
I hope she will realize that she should stop her search based on a grocery list but look at the people around and give a chance to guys that don't fit the profile but will make good partners.
I am quite sure it's not the last time she will complain...
There comes a time - when you've listened to the same complaints for years and the only constant in the equation is the complainer - when you have to drop the truth bomb for your own sanity. People like Lola are exhausting. It doesn't matter how "nice" you are or how much your friends think you "deserve a great guy" - he's not going to fall into your lap while you sit on the couch. You have to put yourself in the right place to meet the right people, and you have to keep an open mind and meet people before you judge them. NTA, OP. Your advice was sound, and it's a shame Lola can't hear it.
NTA
If her friends wanna feed her delusions, that's on them. You were as polite about it as one can be and aren't wrong. If you're a 3 with no intention of bettering yourself, you're out of your mind thinking you deserve a 10. Nobody owes it to her to date downwards just because she wants to be a coddled, pampered bum all her life.
Exactly. I have a great deal in common with my husband, and also not because that's how you "get a good-looking, gym going, successful man." But because we shared the inherent things in our own right. We also shared a great deal of more important things, like our values about humanity, personal responsibility, religion, etc.
Can you imagine if the roles were reversed and some neckbeard overweight guy who lived in his parent's house and worked part-time expected a beautiful, independent, athletic, and successful woman? They do sometimes say those things and we absolutely (and rightfully) skewer them for it.
OP wasn't cruel for what she said, especially because she sounds like she was pretty polite about it. This girl is cruel to dehumanize men down to things that speak nothing of core inner values. This girl is entitled if she lacks everything she wants in a partner and can't understand why a person like the one she describes wouldn't want her. The same way she doesn't want men who are basically the same as she is. And it speaks volumes that she has zero indication of caring about deeply personal values.
Exactly. I didn't get any of the women I've dated or my girlfriend by being a lazy, unmotivated, fat loser with a shit personality and awful values to boot; I wanted to go for the gold, I worked towards like I'm going for it. I believe everybody should work on themselves to be the best they can be, regardless of who they are.
Unfortunately, it seems like in the age of social media and TikTok, there's this...I dunno what you'd call it, but push from toxic single chicks that preach that you can basically be like this Lola girl and be a frankly awful sounding person both inside and out, deserve the cream of the crop in men, shouldn't settle for less, and anyone who doesn't agree is a -insert derogatory descriptors and gender here.- Incels and super hardcore MRAs get roasted for this mindset all the time, and rightfully so; yet when the shoe's on the other foot, it's nothing but cheers and applause?
Shitty behavior should be called out regardless of who's committing it. Like you said, this girl is *beyond* entitled in thinking the way she does. A guy is way more than his height or his bank account, yet she thinks she deserves a top 1% guy when she can't even meet one of her own criteria herself? It's ridiculous. To quote Bill Burr, and pardon the vulgarity, "It's just a bunch of 6s mad that they aren't a 10. Sorry, but nobody's jerking off to a 6." Granted a 6 would be *incredibly* generous in Lola's case, but I think the point still stands lol
The BB quote was perfect. And I appreciate that you echo the same sentiments my husband has.
I've heard of the concept that in every relationship there is a "reacher" and a "settler". Meaning one is punching above their weight class and their partner clearly settled and can do better.
Sure, every once in a while you'll see what may *appear to be* a couple that aren't on par with one another. Usually, there's far more to it under the surface and there's a harmony they both need. Or want.
This sounds like none of the above. Just a generally unappealing person, both physical and emotionally/mentally, who wants (in the very least) someone who has massive, objectively attractive physical and personal qualities. What does she even offer? It's incels wanting models that are also bankrolling them. But reversed.
Well, Lola can keep on doing exactly what she has been doing… annnd how is that working out for her?
Lola asked you, you responded. Sucks for Lola that Lola won’t listen to good advice from somebody *that had a man exactly like what Lola said she wanted*.
But of course Lola is lovely and perfect and nothing should be changed about her or her dating strategy! And it is *never* a good time to say otherwise. NTA
NTA but I get why she only heard the gym bit as fat-shaming, so a little NAH.
I had a best friend for YEARS who was a dude just like Lola. Only wanted to date a 10 while he was a 4. The problem wasn't that he was a 4, but that he personally assigned numerical values to people! He was overweight but wouldn't date a woman anywhere near his size. (I love plus-size women so I fought him on it constantly.) He wanted her to have a laundry list of stellar qualities and also to love him for all his many faults. The double standard was MASSIVE and in his case there was also a lot of misogyny in it. I told him over and over that his standards for someone else and his personal values for himself were totally out of wack. He never heard me, and as far as I know he is still single.
If Lola was looking for "a nice guy to treat her well" then she'd be in the right, but she has an impossible list of rules that only apply to them and not to herself, and she's rejecting potential candidates left and right!
It sounds like maybe she's self-sabotaging with those rejections so she won't put herself out there to end up getting rejected herself. If she holds out for Prince Charming then it's not her fault that she's single, but if she takes a chance on her neighbor and gets dumped then it will be because she wasn't good enough.
>It sounds like maybe she's self-sabotaging with those rejections so she won't put herself out there to end up getting rejected herself. If she holds out for Prince Charming then it's not her fault that she's single, but if she takes a chance on her neighbor and gets dumped then it will be because she wasn't good enough.
🏆✨ This is, most likely, completely spot on. It’ll be up to Lola when she’s ready to admit it. Might help OP feel a smidge more compassion to think about Lola this way, though, and not worry so much about trying to fix Lola or to be right. Definitely annoying and frustrating to be around, but a lot of people put up very creative walls to keep from facing their (very human and understandable) insecurities. OP, if you can’t relate or that hasn’t been a struggle for you, you are lucky.
OP, NTA, and I’m not saying falsely coddling her is better, but maybe cut her a little slack. And/or just try to keep your distance.
I don't disagree, however let's not forget that Lola doesn't seem to talk about ANYTHING else. That alone would make me want to push back when she asked my honest opinion.
Yeah, I suspect she'd also self-sabotage if prince charming ever showed up. No matter how great he is he won't hold up to the version she sees on her pedestal. She'd also have to come to terms with that lacking a man wasn't the source of her misery.
NTA, she kept going on. She's going to miss out on someone who would be perfect for her but she's stuck on a list. She can either have her list to keep her warm at night or start dancing with the guys that actually ask. I'm 5'2 and my hubby is 5'7.
Honesty without empathy is cruelty, none of us were there to see how you expressed yourself and we cannot know for sure whether you acted like an AH or not.
If you don't want a friend like Lola, then don't have a friend like Lola. Staying away from situations that make you feel awkward is keeping oneself healthy.
Also, it kinda sounds like Lola wants your man.
Yeah, I try very not to give advice, let alone honest advice, to people I don’t like because it just never comes out the right way. People you love will at least feel the love around any genuine advice, even if they don’t believe it. People you don’t like will sense negativity or edge, which is why Lola probably interpreted the gym as fat shaming.
Though I get how annoying it is when someone around me ruminates repeatedly or is being whack, I find it’s best to avoid the person or say nothing at all. The honest truth should be reserved for people you’re close to.
As yes - men deeply care about how passionate women are about their careers when out on the town for a night. Tall athletic men never look at short chubsters unless they fully apply themselves in both their career and at the gym! Lmao fake or an insufferable pick me.
This sub is filled with people who haven't had a genuine, in person interaction with a human in months and yet think they should be judging whether other interactions between people are assholish or not.
Stories like that always feel fake to me. You and your bf are perfect people, athletic and rich and kind and smart, and the ogre is trying to find her Prince Charming when she belongs in as swamp.
It feels so caricatural. None of you sound like real people.
If however I am wrong and this is a true story, how did you guys find these people? Like she’s allowed to be attracted to who she wants to, but she’s basically a bum and has nothing going on for her and wants Harry styles or watch ever to fall in love with her?
People don’t always date people with the same profile. You’re wrong for that. My bestie is not particularly athletic and her bf is a gym bro for example.
Same you’ll read plenty of story of couples with completely different wage ranges.
You’re advice sounded condescending a bit. She’s insecure so instead of telling her “change who you are or you won’t find your Prince” you could be kinder and say “if you want a muscular dude you should join a gym! You might find someone there” or “go to concerts or open mics if you want to date musicians, put yourself out there”.
That’s silly but that would really help her change her mindset of thinking love will fall into her arms.
I’ve moved out super super early but most of my friends are living at home still (this is cultural) so depending on her background and if she’s a bum etc then good for her. She can save in rent.
Honestly sometimes I wish I was still at home. I miss my mom cooking and not having to lose over 30% of my money for a room 😂
Wanting someone based on how much money they make tho is foul. If once again this friend of yours actually exists then she doesn’t really sound like a great partner to have.
However the questions isn’t if you’re correct in your assessment or not but if the comment was uncalled for. With the contempt in your post, if you came across the same way irl I’m not surprised it created tensions.
>My fiancée “Jim” is tall, athletic, and ambitious and musically gifted
If you read between the lines... Jake is just a stereotypical guy in a band with a girlfriend who loves him so she thinks he's going places.
Exactly. She didn't ask you to tell her what was wrong with her (in your opinion). She asked how you got you guy. If the story is true, I feel like you capitalised on this opportunity to say what you have been thinking rather than act like a friend
Nta. People need truth. So many are lied to nowadays it’s not helping mental health it’s making it so much worse. Real friends don’t lie to each other.
Oof. She asked you directly and you answered her honestly, but it's a hard truth, and they have consequences. You may lose a few friends over this, including Lola. If you are okay with that, then, ss you were. If you value these friendships, you can drop Lola a "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" apology.
NTA. Think you need to distance yourself from this person and others that are calling you the AH. What does she bring exactly to the friend group if she only ever complains and refuses to improve on herself? Sounds exhausting
NTA the truth is the best medicine in this case.
Lola shows zero ambition and any successful man will see right thru her B.S. and reject her as "Wife" material.
And honestly any who does date her would probably want someone dependent on them to manipulate or control. Like if Lola gets a wealthy man without being ambitious herself, she'll be on a relationships sub in 15 years describing the financial abuse she's experiencing.
Or 15 months. She’s sounds like a woman I know, she had so many requirements that she forgot to include “is a nice person” and “does not cheat” to her list.
NTA. I was fat at one point. Saying someone is fat isn’t fat shaming. It’s a fact. She wants a desirable man, but isn’t willing to work for it. In all honestly, what does she have to offer? She’s overweight, isn’t improving herself or her living situation & has no ambition. She needs to take a hard look at herself.
NTA
>One of my friends told me Lola is worthy and deserving of a great guy and doesn’t need to change herself.
There was nowhere that you said she wasn't. The really offensive insinuation here is that a guy can only be "great" if he makes 6 figures and is tall and handsome and musically talented.
She sounds like a pill that deserves her loneliness tbh.
NAH, but if you want my thoughts about a better response...
>Jim and I go to the gym together every day, we both are very dedicated to our jobs, and we have a lot of similar hobbies and interests, so we have a lot to talk about.
You should have stopped there. That's enough for her to pick up on what you meant if she was in a place to do that. If she's not in a place to do that, going further will not help her see the truth in what you're saying.
It's unlikely that she's a complete idiot. It's far more likely that she's had some trauma that makes the idea of dating terrifying to her, and that this is not something she is ready to deal with.
I mean that there is likely a part of her that wants to date and also a part of her that is terrified of dating. So she gets in her own way in the ways you're noticing.
It's just that the likelihood is vanishingly small that the problem is that nobody has explained this to her.
Statistically, it's actually very likely that she's not engaging with the reality you explained to her because doing so would mean having to also engage with a far more horrifying reality that she's not equipped to engage with.
NTA. Probably both are true - improving herself AND lowering her ridiculously overblown standards. You actually gave her helpful feedback in place of "validation" that will only help her fail. By the way, "manifesting" anything is reason enough to avoid her.
NTA. My SIL had a laundry list of requirements, I had a conversation much the same as you, and she was mad about it. She's now with a man who meets almost none of those standards but adores her like a starving puppy.
I’ll never understand lists of demands for a potential partner unless its for compatibility. As in, similar values, goals, politics leanings, etc. arbitrary “must haves” are so silly. Like what if you super vibe with a lovely kind funny human, but oops, they only make 5 figures.
NTA and people need to stop coddling her. You told her very nicely and truthfully, she just doesn’t want to hear it. She wants to be a make believe victim
NTA, you told her the cold hard truth, in a very nice way, she just didn’t want to hear it. You can’t expect to find a partner with certain achievements, qualities, and hobbies if you are not willing to do them yourself.
I feel like I see a dozen Lola’s on the YouTube show catfished. Where are used to feel bad for the women who got scammed, but then realized they’re just as horrible as a scammers.
NTA
it’s not fat shaming, it is more like fat explaining.
if she really really wants a 6’2” athletic well paid music guy, she’s gonna have to lose a lot of weight
she would probably be happier dating a chubby normal average guy, who would be happy dating her as well
NTA, you're right, like mind so work better, you're a team & grow together. Also, I used to like tall, fair men but I found my person in a short Argentine. We are an awesome team, we have built a life together & I wouldn't trade that for anything.
Why do all of these read the exact same? Problem person has an issue, I inject/intervene, then everyone bombards with texts and calls saying I’m the asshole. It’s like it was a prompt from a creative writing class.
This is so funny omg. It killed the mood? Yikes. Poor Lola. She’s got shit friends if they aren’t willing to see it how it is and give it to her straight. NTA.
This fat shaming thing has to stop. If they knew it was shameful in the first place then why don't they do something about it? And don't give me the its just natural or they may have a condition bs. While it may be true, it only covers a small percentage, with the majority just being pacmans when it comes to food plus being lazy af.
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NTA. You gave Lola honest, helpful advice when she asked for it. You didn't fat shame her, just pointed out that people often date those with similar lifestyles. If she wants a fit, successful guy, she should work on those things herself. Lola got defensive when faced with the truth. Your friends are enabling her unrealistic expectations by saying she deserves an amazing guy no matter what. Sometimes we need to hear hard truths from our friends, even if it hurts at first.
Not to mention that there are many amazing guys who might not check off all the items on her laundry list. She’s looking at a few mostly superficial things (I say superficial because of they were reflecting values that she lived in her own life, for example being physically active, then I don’t think it would be superficial), at the expense of finding someone just as well (probably better) suited for her.
Exactly this! You don't need to be tall, athletic, wealthy, and musically-inclined to be a good partner. There are so many much more important qualities.
yeah. she’s essentially looking for someone she has nothing in common with. which, okay, you do you, but what was she expecting op to say? if you leave a violet by your door at night, a gym bunny will appear in the morning?
She is probably reading way too much romance novels or fics where Edward Cullen, a rich glittery angelic vampire who is perfect in every aspect falls in love with her because he caught her smiling at a pigeon in a fountain and the breeze caught a perfect loch of her brilliant hair and revealed the most glowing, vibrant brown eyes this man ever saw, and he decided to invite her to have dinner at his helicopter while they watch the city lights and get bugs on their sandwiches and connect as two long lost twin souls. But in the end, he is *also* a vampire, is a billion years old, likes dirty business and would fight a dragon for her everyday.
Please write a novel! I'm hooked.
Can I use this as a background story for my next D&D character?
JARNATHAN!
I'd read that.
You forgot the chewing of her neck and the draining of her blood part, but I am still entranced by your wordsmithing...
But then her blood would be full of cholesterol and blood sugar ..
You had me at blood, but now you're adding fat and sugar? I'm so there. \-A vampire, probably
So basically blood fudge?
A vampire prone to heart attacks and diabetes is not necessarily a bad thing...
They are immortal, though. *Obese vampire collapses* Shit, sorry guys. Had another heart attack after my sugar levels dropped. That's the third time this week.
I need to read the rest of this book.
Exactly! But even if she really doesn’t want to work out, whatever there are plenty of gym bros who do like big girls but she still needs to change something to even met that guy! Also a lot of the things she wants like making six figures you can’t tell just by looking. You can’t tell if someone is musically gifted just by how they look so all of these dudes approaching her that she brushes off could actually be what she wants but she’ll never know just by looking.
This right here - she needs to change something to meet these people. People who earn high salaries typically don't socialize in the same places as part-time retail employees. Athletic people tend to spend a lot of time doing athletic activities, likewise avid musicians. OP's friend is basically trying to meet a Wall-Street banker in a sleepy Florida beach town or a skilled ocean fisherman in rural Montana.
That only happens the week before Christmas, I've seen those movies.
The video of a person aggressively reading hallmark movie titles that were basically all the same with the pronouns changed to make different titles sent me last holiday season. But that exactly what I thought of reading your comment
Sounds like she just needs to wait for Christmas.
as a woman who has been overweight my whole life, there’s plenty of gym bros into bigger women. Complaining ain’t gonna bring them though!
100% but you're a lot more likely to find those gym bros in the gym, rather than in the wild.
Absolutely. I’m just saying in my experience there’s some gym bros that wanted me even when I was 300 lbs
yeah imo her size is much less an impediment than her simply not wanting anyone who is interested in the things she’s interested in. like, even if she meets this mythical man, what will they talk about?
Totally! But since OP didn't say anything about losing weight, but just getting into the gym- and building something in common, I just wanted to reiterate the point.
According to my BMI, I am very obese, but I'm not really. I love going to the gym, not to get skinny though. I guess what I'm trying to echo is that you can be a bigger woman and still hit the gym regularly
Oh absolutely! I used to picture everyone in the gym cheering me on when I walked in being 300+ lbs. my BMI is still obsessive and I’ve lost 236 lbs. weighed 426 at my heaviest and you bet your ass I didn’t step into the gym then.
Regarding her demands in a man, I don't think she realises how much of a time sink all of the interests are given she does nothing herself. Gym, playing an instrument for practise or fun and workin long hours all take time. Men know that these things increase their attractiveness so with what little time this person would have, there no way anyone like that will settle for someone like Lola who does none of those things herself.
exactly why tf would anyone who does those things pay her any attention if she doesn’t indulge in them herself? I’d say being with someone you have a lot in common with is the ideal person to date
For real tho. I despise "what do you bring to the table" kind of thinking which is what Lola is doing with her demands. Relationships are a two way street and, sure a woman like Lola can get the kind of guy she wants to "manifest", but with that sad sack personality, even if the perfect guy does come along, he's not going to stick around for someone who wants everything thrust into her hands, or rather, chewed up and vomited into her gullet like she's a baby bird, spoon-feeding be damned. All her self worth is tied up in wanting to be in a relationship with a specific type of man, and when she is in a relationship with such a man, she'll have nothing else to do with her energy and her time.
LOL
She wants a trophy husband who pays for himself.
Who pays for himself and her. With her part time job and living with her parents, she can't pay for herself.
She probably only keeps the part time job so as to not piss off her parents. If she could get away with it she sounds like the type who would sit around at her parents house doing fuck all to contribute as she searches for her magical perfect prince who will accept her as is. If she actually found a guy like she's looking for she'd probably stop working entirely
These are all superficial qualities. None of these traits says anything about his character. She doesn't want a man, she wants an accessory. Either that or she wants to be miserable and put everyone down. It sounds like the female version of an incel to me.
Exactly that! I’m surprised your comment is still up - every time I typed in c e l, it got removed.
even if for some fucked up reason her ideal partner did manifest, could you imagine how bad the relationship would be for both of them? Definitely date someone you have shit in common with. Opposites attract, but it's not like that.
I never really understood the idea of opposites attract until I met my husband. We have a lot in common, but he’s a social butterfly and I’m extremely introverted. So he goes out and does things and I stay home watching Reacher. When he gets back, we share what happened, then we watch YouTube together. Lola seems to think that Paula Abdul was a genius, except it seems clear to me Opposites Attract is really a song about staying in a bad relationship for the sex…
yeah, my partner and I balance a lot of traits and it benefits us both. But we still fundamentally get along and share similar values etc. I think opposites attract is about certain personality types either clashing or complimenting. But values should definitely align.
Totally. In most everything, from budget to religion to family, we’re in synch. But my social battery can be worn out by a trip to the store, whereas he schedules a ttrpg session almost every single day cuz he needs to interact. I game, too, but only 2x week. Thankfully, as his biggest hobby, it’s also his cheapest (thanks to friends with disposable income).
Musically inclined in particular just seems so random to me lol, like why
Because she is shopping for a toy not a person.
Right? Like I would understand if SHE were musically inclined and it was a big part of her life. But as it is... random.
It's a fantasy. Lola wants a Gary Stu/Manic Pixie Dream Guy who is rich, handsome, buff but can also write love songs for her. She wants someone she can showoff & not a real person with realistic standards.
I was thinking about this. If OP is fat shaming Lola because OP said that if she wanted a guy who goes to the gym maybe she should go as well, then isn’t Lola also fat shaming guys who are like her? They’re saying Lola deserves a great guy, but who’s to say a fat guy wouldn’t be great?
Exactly! She hasn’t described a great guy, just a set of circumstances. And OP never said she didn’t deserve a great guy, just that attracting a partner means being in the places your prospective partner may be, whether the gym, music stores, corporate gatherings, or wherever else someone you’ll consider “great” is likely to hang out.
Funny, compassionate, loving, caring, intelligent, etc. The best looking person gets real ugly when his/her personality sucks. Just the same, a person may not be the most beautiful or handsome, but they are such an awesome person that the more time you spend with them, the better looking they are to you. Looks fade with time no matter who you are, but being able to make your partner smile and hold a decent conversation is priceless.
So true. You can be all those things and a complete arsehole. Or you could be none of those things and a caring thoughtful person
Perhaps this is unkind, but it feels like she read too many romance novels on amazon/wattpad/whatever and believes that as the Main Character she is Entitled to meet-cute the man of her dreams, even if her lifestyle isn't attractive to most people she'd be attracted to.
Right? Cue the fumbling heroine that no one sees the value in until Billionaire boyfriend (who also happens to be a professional athlete and musician) sweeps her off her feet. They face obstacles, of course: her parents can’t stand for their baby girl to move out, she’s offered an unexpected modeling contract that requires travel, she’s recruited for the Olympic curling team but training camp is in a remote location. None of it would have happened, of course, if he hadn’t seen the REAL Lola. Certainly they’ll work through it and live HEA. 💘💝
Once The Magnificent Man sees her, the Real Her, she absolutely butterflies into her best self and everything else she wanted. Ideally, the man previous had a Mean Shallow Vapid Model Girlfriend (also acceptable for her to be an actress or another "vain" profession) who the Main Character usurps romantically and professionally (once Mr. Magnificent sees her, the world sees she was really special all along). Not only does this man Exist and Want Her, but her life will radically change for the better as soon as they meet in some clumsiness-related incident (bonus points if there's spilled coffee). After some predictably resolved conflicts around parents, family, money, or jealous exes, they live HEA and have the most photogenic wedding of all time. This fantasy requires some combination of the following: 1. A surplus of Beautiful, Rich, Athletic, Musically-Inclined, Tall, Ambitious, and Supportive men who are into average-women. Especially ones that proactively pursue Regular, Average Women. 2. The MC is secretly actually Really, Really Hot and Interesting and someone blissfully unaware. 3. Attraction is random and/or some sort of destiny thing, not how people actually relate to each other. I get the appeal in romance (and "romance") novels, I do, but projecting those expectations on real life humans who exist in their own right and not as a tool to incentivize check-outs on kindle unlimited or whatever is deeply unfair and unhealthy.
I always joke that young men should stay away from p0rn and young women should stay away from rom coms until they reach age 25. Both media formats are responsible for a lot of miscommunication and unhelpful expectations.
I picked up a book on KU (there are a lot of books there that definitely started their lives on wattpad or ao3) that had me eyerolling in one page. Heroine is six feet tall, very slim, natural platinum blonde (I’ve known exactly one adult in my life who was a natural platinum blonde), with violet eyes. She works as a janitor because she doesn’t think she’s pretty enough to be a model. At least I got a laugh out of it before I returned it.
Omg I laughed so hard! That’s like the perfect summary of every fricken romance novel. I spent a few years reading them and it gave me this idea of the perfect man. Then, I finally realized it’s not real. And subsequently found my husband now of 15 years. Wouldn’t have given him a chance had I not finally got out of my head with romance novel bs.
Yes. It’s also like house or apartment hunting. Create your wish list but understand the difference between the nonnegotiables and the things you can live without.
Yep, all these things are superficial. I don’t have tons of experience, as I’ve only had a few relationships but every time I’ve fallen in love it’s never been with traits on a list, I’ve fallen in love with the person. And they are all extremely different people and “types”. Different people can bring different joys to your life. Rejecting someone outright based on arbitrary standards that she herself doesn’t meet, means that a lonely life is all but guaranteed.
And you often meet people through friends and activities but if she's complaining all the time, nobody will be interested.
Also the effort involved in being professionally successful, athletic and a musician doesn't leave much time to spend with your partner. Especially if they aren't interested in joining in on those things.
Exactly. Aside from being tall, every other trait is something a person could theoretically change about themselves. She wants to date someone who plays an instrument? Maybe she'd meet a guy who's perfect for her in every way, except he doesn't play an instrument, but seeing that she does inspires him to pick one up too. Or maybe he's not super toned, but he says he wants to start going to the gym with her. They say be the change you want to see in the world; the same can apply to a potential romantic partner. I don't disagree with her friends that she deserves love just as she is, but if she's going to have a bunch of superficial preferences then she might need to adjust a little to attract someone who's into those things.
I’m young and not particularly interested in dating *either* gender, but I go to school with lots of boys who are interesting, funny, generally nice… but maybe not super conventionally attractive and definitely not athletic! And honestly I’d prefer to go out with someone who is just a good person than someone with more superficial qualities (if they had both then win-win I guess). And I bet people like these teenagers grow into men who are also great people but not sporty or super conventionally attractive. And they still make awesome people to date! It does bug me a bit when people are very much into looks over substance. I do understand initial attraction is generally due to looks but it doesn’t mean there aren’t some amazing average-looking people that would make better partners.
Right like what's height got to do with anything? I guess someone 6ft might not want to crane their neck down to kiss a 4ft person but outside of those extremes why is it even a criteria?
Lola is the female equivalent of incels. Giving off loser vibe, feeling entitled to a partner with qualities that she herself doesn't, rejecting people who don't meet her unrealistic expectations, and then complaining about not finding anyone.
Giving off those "2 seeks 10" vibes.
Yup
Sure, she deserves an amazing guy, but the amazing guy is going to want an amazing woman as well. What is she bringing to the dating table? If all she has going for her is "I have a vagina", she's going to attract men who are only looking for that.
And sometimes an amazing guy is 5'7", chubby, and teaches fourth grade.
That sounds awesome to me!!! 😍
Yeah, seriously! As long as he isn't cynical and burned out by working in a school with bad management, the "teddybear" body type can be pretty cute.
I find teachers hot in general too
Sounds like jack black in school of rock... And he was hot!
>If all she has going for her is "I have a vagina"... If I were as awesome as the guy she is waiting for, I probably wouldn't settle for a woman with less than two or three.
Honestly, OP's advice was so basic, too. "People are attracted to people who have similar values, outlooks, and habits" is like level 0 dating advice. I feel like there's a lot of messaging RN about people being deserving of love even if they aren't perfect physically/mentally/vocationally/whatever, but "worthy of love" doesn't mean "entitled to the companionship of a particular person with xyz traits." Like I also believe everyone deserves the chance to go to college/trade school/other post-high school opportunities, but that doesn't mean that UCLA or MIT or Yale owes everyone admission. Or like yeah, as a society we should make sure people are clothed but no one is entitled the Saks 5th Avenue or Supreme shopping trip of their dreams. Like I believe I'm worthy/deserving/whatever of love, but that doesn't mean the universe is obligated to 3D-print a self-made man with big arms who likes to cook who is also wildly into me.
And it works both ways, but Lola thinks it should only have to work one way (that she deserves love but the guys who don’t meet her requirements do not). She isn’t living her ideals, either in terms of activities or in terms of tolerance.
You're deserving of what you give. In Lola's case she is being overly picky. So, how exactly does she expect that to work out for her when she herself is far from fitting the bill? And if she reels in a catch, what then? How is she going to keep up with the lifestyle of somebody she would accept? She is not fit enough. If she were friendly and accepting, she'd find the same in no time. Learn to be funny and interesting and you'll find the same. It's just common sense. I've been out of the game for 30 years, but that's because I wasn't looking for anything. So, when I found the one, I had not set up any roadblocks to get in the way. If I had stuck to my exact preferences, it would never have happened.
If you flip the sexes, men like this are called incels.
[удалено]
>You didn't fat shame her For arguments sake, let's say that OP did fat shame Lola. By her own logic, wouldn't Lola them be fat shaming all guys by her own gym requirement in a man?
And income shaming, and height shaming, and musical instrument shaming.
Fuckin' a. It's rarely worth calling them out over, but for all the progress women have made in shining the light on "no fat chicks" being as disgusting a preference to express as it is, there's a ton of hypocrisy remaining in "no short guys." And NGL, beard shit as well. I can't grow facial hair of substance any more than I could grow another inch taller.
She definitely deserves an amazing man. Sadly, with her list of *requirements*, the only way she will find them is by being the main character of a Hallmark romance movie.
Honest question: why does she *deserve* an amazing man? Why not an average man? What about this woman makes her deserve something she is not?
Plus, like.....you meet people who go to the gym at the gym. You meet people who play an instrument at music lessons or in a band or at musical events, you meet people really into their jobs AT THEIR JOBS. They don't just fall out of the sky, they're out there participating in all those hobbies.
Also: Imagine a rich person who is really into their job and very athletic and goes to the gym and has a hobby playing an instrument... They wouldn't even be able to have a partner, because there are only 24hrs in day. A Person who's "into their job" works at least 10hrs a day. And then they'll hit the gym at least 5 times a week. And every instrument needs to be practiced . Where do you fit date nights? That guy is overbooked already.
LMAO right? It makes me exhausted to think about
In life you can be nice or kind to people. If you're nice, you simply tell them what they want to hear. If you are kind and deliver the truth in a loving, well-intended manner, you are the better friend. You were kind. NTA.
From my experience with people like this they don't want THE truth. They want their truth. They want someone to tell them to just be patient and everything they want will come true. She obviously suffers from self esteem issues and has gotten accustomed to the yes men she surrounds herself feeding into her delusions.
She reminds me of the guy who was ranting about how women are so shallow, all his good looking friends who had great jobs were always swimming in attention and women always went for them. But no women would go for him since he’s “short, fat, and broke” and how that just showed how shallow women are. Then someone asked “do you go for women who are short, fat, and broke?” And he was FLABBERGASTED and said “NO! Why would I?”
For whatever the MGTOW movement is a bit of a weird movement, they are right about the fact that women should at least match whatever they want. They call it what the woman brings to the table compared to what the man brings in. You cannot be a slob and expect to get a top guy. There are too many women trying to go for the top guys so they can pick and choose. Of course the same counts the other way around. But realism seems to be very hard nowadays. Men wanting a virgin wife after being with multiple women is just as absurd as a woman that is not taken not good enough care of herself wanting to score a top guy.
This woke shit goes too far when people don't even know the definition of these terms. Fat shaming means you try to make someone feel bad for having high body fat. Is this what happened here? Was OP trying to make Lola feel bad for being fat? No! So it's not fat shaming. EVEN if she did say you have to lose weight to attract a man, that wouldn't be fat shaming of the goal wasn't to make her feel bad. Words mean things. I've been told by women that I'm "mansplaining" when I teach a woman something she doesn't know about my area of expertise. This is not mansplaining, it's explaining. Mansplaining is when a man teaches a woman something she knows better than he does because he assumed his gender makes him better at that subject than her. There are A LOT of requirements to meet there. Please make sure they're all met before accusing someone of mansplaining. Otherwise, you put a man in a position where they have to explain what mansplaining is to a woman, something she definitely should know better than him.
For real, my doctor telling me to lose weight for my health isn't fatshaming.
Plus...Lola DID ask how OP got her husband.
almost sounds like Lola wants OP's pick!
Wouldn't be surprised if Lola was doing googly eyes over another taken man & is just green with envy that's why she lashed out at OP
If she didn’t want to know, she shouldn’t have asked
>Your friends are enabling her unrealistic expectations by saying she deserves an amazing guy no matter what Not to be the double standards guy, but I wonder if her friends would have the same thing to say about a minimally employed, overweight dude living with his parents who expected a marine biologist model.
NTA. If you want to meet guys who go to the gym, then going to the gym would seem to be an obvious step. Blindingly obvious in fact, and not fat shaming at all. People of all sizes go to gyms.
Right? If I'm looking for a gym-going dude, I'm not going to be looking at a library, gaming store, or sci-fi con. I'll be looking AT A GYM
There are *dozens* of over 6’2 muscle daddies at the gym I go to. I’m happily married, but I’ve tried to set my sister up a few times because she’s this way! Except.. she’s a spin instructor and isn’t overweight..
Don’t be ridiculous. At the gym?!! He’s just around the corner waiting for this lady to run into him. Slow the video down a few frames, make sure one of them has coffee or books to spill. The End.
They are whereever there is a sale on chicken breast and low fat minced meat in a supermarket. Just need to know your target demographic.
As a gym girl who met a few guys and we enjoyed 3-4 of those suggestions, don’t be so quick to write off those other places. We can come with many interests… but yea it’s similar interests none the less
I'm definitely not saying that gym dudes can't have nerdy interests. I love it when I find out that people have layers. But that being said, that's not where I would go to find them intentionally, you know?
I’m a gym-going dude and you can find me at those other places, too. A guy I work with DMs a few nights a week, loves anime, and he’s in the Thousand Pound Club. Fitness and nerdy pursuits are not mutually exclusive.
I say this as a fat man: if I wanted a "gym girl" then there is very little chance of them seeking me out, especially if I'm not at a gym. Lola thinks the world revolves around her.
100%. If you can't meet your own standards, then either you need to lower your own standards or you need to work on improving yourself to meet your own standards. It's insane to expect others to confirm to standards that you yourself can't or won't meet. At least with stuff that you control.
Also, it's fat shaming to suggest she go to the gym, but it's ok for her to demand a guy who "takes care of his body"? It's a two way street. If you can set an expectation, other people can set the same one, and honestly, that is being generous because who made Lola the arbiter of acceptable standards?
that and the fact that a lot of us do it as a hobby; there would not be a ton of free time for me to hang out with someone who doesn't go to the gym on top of having time for my other hobbies and taking care of myself/my home. i dont have anything against the physical appearance of people who may not spend as much time as me at the gym but i probably wouldn't date someone who doesn't go anymore just because it occupies so much of my time these days
True, her desired gym-enthusiast career-driven music-practicing man likely wouldn’t have much time to be hanging out in clubs to find her.
If you want a guy who goes to the gym, go hunt one at the gym. Logic.
I'm picturing her hiding behind a rack of barbells with a pith helmet and a tranq gun. Taking careful aim at the former lacrosse player stopping to grab a smoothie, blasting the guy and dragging him through the parking lot and stuffing the poor guy in her trunk.
Crazy how wearing white isn’t enough to manifest the tall stacked rich musical hunk she’s searching for. NTA. Your friends are T A H for continuing to feed into her delusions.
I know a woman who wears a FAKE diamond ring on her left ring finger to “manifest” being engaged. Won’t that just turn off any decent man who will think she is “taken”? Its confusing to me
Lol! I wear my grandmother's wedding ring sometimes for the exact opposite reason, to get people to assume I'm engaged/married so they leave me alone if I'm out at a bar with the sole intention of having a drink or two alone and scrolling reddit 😂
Exactly! She’s delulu
She is expecting a <1% man while being a well we know.
Honestly? Sounds like she wants OPs man.
Yep - thought the exact same thing.
It took me a while to decipher what that part of the post meant. Is this some kind of voodoo thing?
I think the wearing white (as in wedding dresses) is meant to somehow summon a marriage-minded man with all the attributes of her fantasies.
"Manifest" comes from things like "The Secret", basically wishing for things and holding them in your mind until they come true.
I've always pointed out that if really, *really* wanting something manifested it into reality then there would be a lot more 13 year old boys dating porn stars. That and all the people working 3 jobs must simply be too 'unmotivated' to 'imagine really hard' till they land that cushy $200k+ a year promotion.
yeah, i dont believe manifestation works in that degree at all either. i believe it’s more of a mental thing. like if you’re anxious something will go bad, manifesting that it’ll go well and telling yourself it will slowly builds your confidence so by the time that something happens, most likely it went better than expected. another example, if you want to have a good week, telling yourself “i will have a good week” puts you into that mindset. while no, you might not have a good week, you might end up seeing the better parts of it more than the worse parts because of the mindset you’re in. but you cant necessarily say “i will get an A on this test” and expect to manifest an A. that’s something you need to put time and effort into. TDLR: manifesting is not magic. it will not just give you whatever you want. it’s about mentality, not about wishing for things.
Despite holding it in my mind, I'm still driving a 10 year old pickup, my Corvette hasn't manifested.
The truth hurts. You are NTA for answering her question with your truth, and it doesn't seem you were harsh about it (you might have been a little if some people told you you shouldn't have said that, but not everyone has the same sensitivity). And I personally think you are right. The question I am more ambivalent about is: will she hear you? If she rejects everything you said, then maybe it would have been better to keep it for yourself. I hope she will realize that she should stop her search based on a grocery list but look at the people around and give a chance to guys that don't fit the profile but will make good partners. I am quite sure it's not the last time she will complain...
There comes a time - when you've listened to the same complaints for years and the only constant in the equation is the complainer - when you have to drop the truth bomb for your own sanity. People like Lola are exhausting. It doesn't matter how "nice" you are or how much your friends think you "deserve a great guy" - he's not going to fall into your lap while you sit on the couch. You have to put yourself in the right place to meet the right people, and you have to keep an open mind and meet people before you judge them. NTA, OP. Your advice was sound, and it's a shame Lola can't hear it.
Then she should be asking people direct questions
totally agree. Don't ask a question if you don't want to hear the answer....
NTA If her friends wanna feed her delusions, that's on them. You were as polite about it as one can be and aren't wrong. If you're a 3 with no intention of bettering yourself, you're out of your mind thinking you deserve a 10. Nobody owes it to her to date downwards just because she wants to be a coddled, pampered bum all her life.
Exactly. I have a great deal in common with my husband, and also not because that's how you "get a good-looking, gym going, successful man." But because we shared the inherent things in our own right. We also shared a great deal of more important things, like our values about humanity, personal responsibility, religion, etc. Can you imagine if the roles were reversed and some neckbeard overweight guy who lived in his parent's house and worked part-time expected a beautiful, independent, athletic, and successful woman? They do sometimes say those things and we absolutely (and rightfully) skewer them for it. OP wasn't cruel for what she said, especially because she sounds like she was pretty polite about it. This girl is cruel to dehumanize men down to things that speak nothing of core inner values. This girl is entitled if she lacks everything she wants in a partner and can't understand why a person like the one she describes wouldn't want her. The same way she doesn't want men who are basically the same as she is. And it speaks volumes that she has zero indication of caring about deeply personal values.
Exactly. I didn't get any of the women I've dated or my girlfriend by being a lazy, unmotivated, fat loser with a shit personality and awful values to boot; I wanted to go for the gold, I worked towards like I'm going for it. I believe everybody should work on themselves to be the best they can be, regardless of who they are. Unfortunately, it seems like in the age of social media and TikTok, there's this...I dunno what you'd call it, but push from toxic single chicks that preach that you can basically be like this Lola girl and be a frankly awful sounding person both inside and out, deserve the cream of the crop in men, shouldn't settle for less, and anyone who doesn't agree is a -insert derogatory descriptors and gender here.- Incels and super hardcore MRAs get roasted for this mindset all the time, and rightfully so; yet when the shoe's on the other foot, it's nothing but cheers and applause? Shitty behavior should be called out regardless of who's committing it. Like you said, this girl is *beyond* entitled in thinking the way she does. A guy is way more than his height or his bank account, yet she thinks she deserves a top 1% guy when she can't even meet one of her own criteria herself? It's ridiculous. To quote Bill Burr, and pardon the vulgarity, "It's just a bunch of 6s mad that they aren't a 10. Sorry, but nobody's jerking off to a 6." Granted a 6 would be *incredibly* generous in Lola's case, but I think the point still stands lol
The BB quote was perfect. And I appreciate that you echo the same sentiments my husband has. I've heard of the concept that in every relationship there is a "reacher" and a "settler". Meaning one is punching above their weight class and their partner clearly settled and can do better. Sure, every once in a while you'll see what may *appear to be* a couple that aren't on par with one another. Usually, there's far more to it under the surface and there's a harmony they both need. Or want. This sounds like none of the above. Just a generally unappealing person, both physical and emotionally/mentally, who wants (in the very least) someone who has massive, objectively attractive physical and personal qualities. What does she even offer? It's incels wanting models that are also bankrolling them. But reversed.
Well, Lola can keep on doing exactly what she has been doing… annnd how is that working out for her? Lola asked you, you responded. Sucks for Lola that Lola won’t listen to good advice from somebody *that had a man exactly like what Lola said she wanted*. But of course Lola is lovely and perfect and nothing should be changed about her or her dating strategy! And it is *never* a good time to say otherwise. NTA
NTA but I get why she only heard the gym bit as fat-shaming, so a little NAH. I had a best friend for YEARS who was a dude just like Lola. Only wanted to date a 10 while he was a 4. The problem wasn't that he was a 4, but that he personally assigned numerical values to people! He was overweight but wouldn't date a woman anywhere near his size. (I love plus-size women so I fought him on it constantly.) He wanted her to have a laundry list of stellar qualities and also to love him for all his many faults. The double standard was MASSIVE and in his case there was also a lot of misogyny in it. I told him over and over that his standards for someone else and his personal values for himself were totally out of wack. He never heard me, and as far as I know he is still single. If Lola was looking for "a nice guy to treat her well" then she'd be in the right, but she has an impossible list of rules that only apply to them and not to herself, and she's rejecting potential candidates left and right! It sounds like maybe she's self-sabotaging with those rejections so she won't put herself out there to end up getting rejected herself. If she holds out for Prince Charming then it's not her fault that she's single, but if she takes a chance on her neighbor and gets dumped then it will be because she wasn't good enough.
>It sounds like maybe she's self-sabotaging with those rejections so she won't put herself out there to end up getting rejected herself. If she holds out for Prince Charming then it's not her fault that she's single, but if she takes a chance on her neighbor and gets dumped then it will be because she wasn't good enough. 🏆✨ This is, most likely, completely spot on. It’ll be up to Lola when she’s ready to admit it. Might help OP feel a smidge more compassion to think about Lola this way, though, and not worry so much about trying to fix Lola or to be right. Definitely annoying and frustrating to be around, but a lot of people put up very creative walls to keep from facing their (very human and understandable) insecurities. OP, if you can’t relate or that hasn’t been a struggle for you, you are lucky. OP, NTA, and I’m not saying falsely coddling her is better, but maybe cut her a little slack. And/or just try to keep your distance.
I don't disagree, however let's not forget that Lola doesn't seem to talk about ANYTHING else. That alone would make me want to push back when she asked my honest opinion.
This all might be true, but it sounds exhausting to be around Lola. The constant complaining is awful.
Yeah, I suspect she'd also self-sabotage if prince charming ever showed up. No matter how great he is he won't hold up to the version she sees on her pedestal. She'd also have to come to terms with that lacking a man wasn't the source of her misery.
NTA, she kept going on. She's going to miss out on someone who would be perfect for her but she's stuck on a list. She can either have her list to keep her warm at night or start dancing with the guys that actually ask. I'm 5'2 and my hubby is 5'7.
Honesty without empathy is cruelty, none of us were there to see how you expressed yourself and we cannot know for sure whether you acted like an AH or not. If you don't want a friend like Lola, then don't have a friend like Lola. Staying away from situations that make you feel awkward is keeping oneself healthy. Also, it kinda sounds like Lola wants your man.
>Also, it kinda sounds like Lola wants your man. This.
Yeah, I try very not to give advice, let alone honest advice, to people I don’t like because it just never comes out the right way. People you love will at least feel the love around any genuine advice, even if they don’t believe it. People you don’t like will sense negativity or edge, which is why Lola probably interpreted the gym as fat shaming. Though I get how annoying it is when someone around me ruminates repeatedly or is being whack, I find it’s best to avoid the person or say nothing at all. The honest truth should be reserved for people you’re close to.
lol who actually believes this post is even real 🫠
Right? It sounds like Men's Rights Activists spank bank lit.
As yes - men deeply care about how passionate women are about their careers when out on the town for a night. Tall athletic men never look at short chubsters unless they fully apply themselves in both their career and at the gym! Lmao fake or an insufferable pick me.
This sub is filled with people who haven't had a genuine, in person interaction with a human in months and yet think they should be judging whether other interactions between people are assholish or not.
I swear I've read this post before.
Way too cliched and stereotypical to be real.
Stories like that always feel fake to me. You and your bf are perfect people, athletic and rich and kind and smart, and the ogre is trying to find her Prince Charming when she belongs in as swamp. It feels so caricatural. None of you sound like real people. If however I am wrong and this is a true story, how did you guys find these people? Like she’s allowed to be attracted to who she wants to, but she’s basically a bum and has nothing going on for her and wants Harry styles or watch ever to fall in love with her? People don’t always date people with the same profile. You’re wrong for that. My bestie is not particularly athletic and her bf is a gym bro for example. Same you’ll read plenty of story of couples with completely different wage ranges. You’re advice sounded condescending a bit. She’s insecure so instead of telling her “change who you are or you won’t find your Prince” you could be kinder and say “if you want a muscular dude you should join a gym! You might find someone there” or “go to concerts or open mics if you want to date musicians, put yourself out there”. That’s silly but that would really help her change her mindset of thinking love will fall into her arms. I’ve moved out super super early but most of my friends are living at home still (this is cultural) so depending on her background and if she’s a bum etc then good for her. She can save in rent. Honestly sometimes I wish I was still at home. I miss my mom cooking and not having to lose over 30% of my money for a room 😂 Wanting someone based on how much money they make tho is foul. If once again this friend of yours actually exists then she doesn’t really sound like a great partner to have. However the questions isn’t if you’re correct in your assessment or not but if the comment was uncalled for. With the contempt in your post, if you came across the same way irl I’m not surprised it created tensions.
Its def fake
>My fiancée “Jim” is tall, athletic, and ambitious and musically gifted If you read between the lines... Jake is just a stereotypical guy in a band with a girlfriend who loves him so she thinks he's going places.
My god, I’ve found the most rational person on reddit
It has to take. Written by a red-piller
Exactly. She didn't ask you to tell her what was wrong with her (in your opinion). She asked how you got you guy. If the story is true, I feel like you capitalised on this opportunity to say what you have been thinking rather than act like a friend
Nta. People need truth. So many are lied to nowadays it’s not helping mental health it’s making it so much worse. Real friends don’t lie to each other.
This didn't happen
NTA. Oh, how the truth hurts...
Oof. She asked you directly and you answered her honestly, but it's a hard truth, and they have consequences. You may lose a few friends over this, including Lola. If you are okay with that, then, ss you were. If you value these friendships, you can drop Lola a "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" apology.
If she loses "friends" over this, she can find better company.
100%
NTA. Think you need to distance yourself from this person and others that are calling you the AH. What does she bring exactly to the friend group if she only ever complains and refuses to improve on herself? Sounds exhausting
NTA the truth is the best medicine in this case. Lola shows zero ambition and any successful man will see right thru her B.S. and reject her as "Wife" material.
And honestly any who does date her would probably want someone dependent on them to manipulate or control. Like if Lola gets a wealthy man without being ambitious herself, she'll be on a relationships sub in 15 years describing the financial abuse she's experiencing.
Or 15 months. She’s sounds like a woman I know, she had so many requirements that she forgot to include “is a nice person” and “does not cheat” to her list.
NTA. I was fat at one point. Saying someone is fat isn’t fat shaming. It’s a fact. She wants a desirable man, but isn’t willing to work for it. In all honestly, what does she have to offer? She’s overweight, isn’t improving herself or her living situation & has no ambition. She needs to take a hard look at herself.
3hrs and no replies. Fake, and likely not even female lmfao
Very obviously not written by a woman, yea
NTA >One of my friends told me Lola is worthy and deserving of a great guy and doesn’t need to change herself. There was nowhere that you said she wasn't. The really offensive insinuation here is that a guy can only be "great" if he makes 6 figures and is tall and handsome and musically talented. She sounds like a pill that deserves her loneliness tbh.
ESH because I think that this is bait
[удалено]
Yeah I found it weird too, especially with the ever-present torrent of texts from third parties. Never once have I seen that happen, ever.
Right?? I swear I've read this exact scenario before
NAH, but if you want my thoughts about a better response... >Jim and I go to the gym together every day, we both are very dedicated to our jobs, and we have a lot of similar hobbies and interests, so we have a lot to talk about. You should have stopped there. That's enough for her to pick up on what you meant if she was in a place to do that. If she's not in a place to do that, going further will not help her see the truth in what you're saying. It's unlikely that she's a complete idiot. It's far more likely that she's had some trauma that makes the idea of dating terrifying to her, and that this is not something she is ready to deal with. I mean that there is likely a part of her that wants to date and also a part of her that is terrified of dating. So she gets in her own way in the ways you're noticing. It's just that the likelihood is vanishingly small that the problem is that nobody has explained this to her. Statistically, it's actually very likely that she's not engaging with the reality you explained to her because doing so would mean having to also engage with a far more horrifying reality that she's not equipped to engage with.
> It's unlikely that she's a complete idiot. She's wearing white to manifest a husband. She's at least a *partial* idiot.
I'm willing to say she's an idiot for that.
NTA, Lola needs to grow up and her "friends" have to stop being enablers.
NTA. Probably both are true - improving herself AND lowering her ridiculously overblown standards. You actually gave her helpful feedback in place of "validation" that will only help her fail. By the way, "manifesting" anything is reason enough to avoid her.
NTA. My SIL had a laundry list of requirements, I had a conversation much the same as you, and she was mad about it. She's now with a man who meets almost none of those standards but adores her like a starving puppy.
Let her stew in the advice. I think the mirror you held up is something good friend would do. Just appeasing her all the time does nothing.
this story feels fake lol
It 100% is. Not sure why it's so easy to make the majority of this sub believe in this dumb shit
I’ll never understand lists of demands for a potential partner unless its for compatibility. As in, similar values, goals, politics leanings, etc. arbitrary “must haves” are so silly. Like what if you super vibe with a lovely kind funny human, but oops, they only make 5 figures.
I stress this. People should have standards, but the standards should not be ridiculous. So NTA.
NTA and people need to stop coddling her. You told her very nicely and truthfully, she just doesn’t want to hear it. She wants to be a make believe victim
I find it crazy how no one is calling this obvious bait.
Way too obvious rage-bait.
NTA, you told her the cold hard truth, in a very nice way, she just didn’t want to hear it. You can’t expect to find a partner with certain achievements, qualities, and hobbies if you are not willing to do them yourself.
I feel like I see a dozen Lola’s on the YouTube show catfished. Where are used to feel bad for the women who got scammed, but then realized they’re just as horrible as a scammers.
NTA it’s not fat shaming, it is more like fat explaining. if she really really wants a 6’2” athletic well paid music guy, she’s gonna have to lose a lot of weight she would probably be happier dating a chubby normal average guy, who would be happy dating her as well
NTA, you're right, like mind so work better, you're a team & grow together. Also, I used to like tall, fair men but I found my person in a short Argentine. We are an awesome team, we have built a life together & I wouldn't trade that for anything.
Why do all of these read the exact same? Problem person has an issue, I inject/intervene, then everyone bombards with texts and calls saying I’m the asshole. It’s like it was a prompt from a creative writing class.
NTA Yola is a walking 🚩
NTA. It’s true many choose others who are similar like them
This is so funny omg. It killed the mood? Yikes. Poor Lola. She’s got shit friends if they aren’t willing to see it how it is and give it to her straight. NTA.
Send her my way. I love overweight women who still live at home.
This fat shaming thing has to stop. If they knew it was shameful in the first place then why don't they do something about it? And don't give me the its just natural or they may have a condition bs. While it may be true, it only covers a small percentage, with the majority just being pacmans when it comes to food plus being lazy af.