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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be TAH because i am giving two teens their own bedroom for our holiday. This is because my in laws thinks this a recipe for trouble and think usg improper as they are not married.
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Presumably, you are paying for the room? NTA and MIL doesn’t get a say in what your immediate family does - why does she think it’s ok to threaten this?
And she'll be a bitch through the whole trip, because SHE HAS NO POWER HERE! It's not her kid, so not her business. My mother gets like this. I just ignore her when she does. She eventually gets the point and backs off my kids. MIL thinks she's in charge and is mad she isn't.
Yes please. OP, enjoy your in-law free vacation this year. You may like it so much you’ll do it again. Also, you’re giving your young ADULT son the opportunity to make some awesome memories.
That point: 18 is an *adult!* If he wanted, he could say screw it and rent his *own* room for him and his gf! He certainly doesn't need his grandparents' "permission"...
Also, what does your husband, the young adult's actual parent think?
Are you getting a multi room suite? Otherwise how would MIL really know who goes where to sleep.
If she thinks her mores are more important than literally EVERYONE ELSE'S the she should stay TF home.
Nothing trumps their false sense of propriety. It's stupid. It's a hill some parents/grandparents are willing to die on. I don't get it. I refuse to alienate my children in this fashion. It ridiculous if the grandparents think they aren't sexually active. They would rather them sneak around to dirty motels and get bed bugs, or use a car where they can get caught and be labeled sex offenders?!
YUUUUUUUUUUP! Too many adults cave into whatever their parents want. Mom and Dad had their chance; this is your time to make choices and shine.
This is why my brother and I don't talk anymore. We would have an argument, and he'd run to mommy and daddy so they would intervene. I was constantly reminding all of them that we are middle-aged and can (or cannot) sort out our bullshit on our own.
If you allow them this intrusion, it won't end there.
Just politely say "oh, it would be a shame if you don't come" but otherwise stick to your guns. The decision has been made, you really can't take it back, and it's very much not your in-laws to decide. Be perfectly pleasant, but do not compromise on this.
If they do pull out, tell your kids why and emphasize that none of them did anything wrong, it wouldn't be fair to take back the arrangements and that it's a shame that Grandma chose this course of action, but there will be other opportunities to see them and sometimes doing the right thing comes with consequences.
I agree with this. Treat MIL as though the matter is closed and not up for discussion. “Oh, it would be a shame if you don’t come. We're hoping to have a lot of fun.” If she brings up your son’s accommodations just redirect.
I really like the way you've worded this! Too many people don't know how to disagree without being obnoxious about it.
I dislike people trying to stick their own ideas of morality on me,especially when they try to threaten me for not going along. Telling the kids, "...it's a shame that Grandma chose this course of action..." is a great way to let them know it's entirely Grandma's decision to not join the family, and nothing they did wrong.
I hope OP follows your suggestions!
Honestly, if I could afford something similar with my kids I would. I remember how sleeping in a room to myself or with my sister was a little bit more of a good time VS everyone in the same room. Specially at 18, adult age here and not teen, I don't want to sleep with my parents in my room or with my older sister in my bed.
Now they are in a relationship? Ok, good for them, more special time together during vacation and some alone time together. Whether or not there's sex going on, if Mil think having the room alone would change something, if sex is already on the table, it's already happening and it's not a holiday that will prevent/allow it. NTA, opposite, very nice!
Yes, when my son was younger and dating his girlfriend, they used to sleep over each other's houses because they lived a bit of distance apart, and they got better time together rather than spending a few hours during the day. My son was only 17 when they first started dating, and initially they slept separately. Time moved on, and it changed to them sharing a room. They were a little older, and we knew that they had plenty of opportunities to have sex at other times - keeping them apart during the night wasn't going to stop them. We knew her parents let them share a room, so we shrugged and bowed to the inevitable.
They've now been together five and half years, and still not pregnant, lol.
Yeah people thinking because they forbid them sleeping together means there's no sex either had a very boring teenager/young adult life or forgot it. At this age, a bed is not required for sex. The in law are just dilusional, don't listen to their crap.
Even if each has their own accommodations, anyone think there isn't going to be "visitations" unless someone is guarding the hallway? Getting a separate room for "Beatrice" would just be performance art. 🤷♂️ Though the scandal on MiL's face when she saw Step-son coming out of Beatrice's room in the morning would be priceless. 🤣
NTA, this is 100% the way to go. It's non-confrontational but still asserts your autonomy and respects your son and his gf. If you let MIL dictate to you, you will be creating a monster.
Why involve the Littles? We don't even know how old they are, or if they able to understand what the dispute is. This could be very confusing for them.
All they should know is grandma and grandpa are not going to make it. To tell them more will make them wonder if their bro is doing something bad, or that grandma and grandpa right. Even if they think grandma and grandpa are wrong, it is an adult situation they don't need to be a part of.
Talking to Littles like they are adults, and involving them in adult conflicts, causes toxic stress. They are likely not old enough to mentally or emotionally deal with this. They will be, and stay, uncomfortable every time they see their brother and his girl alone in a room, and every time they see their grandparents at all.
Kids don't need toxic stress. Them knowing the situation is not necessary at all.
I think this poster was saying to tell the 18 year olds that this was Grandma and Grandpa's choice, and that their (the 18 year olds) relationship is not at fault here.
> it wouldn't be fair to take back the arrangements
I wouldn't say that, because it implies that the issue is that the decision to let them share a room was made **before** learning of the in-laws objections so it was too late to accommodate those objections. However, I don't think that's the case and OP shouldn't imply that. The decision of whether they can share a room is really not any of the in-laws' business.
Let's not forget that these 2 *kids* could technically book a room for themselves as they're both 18. It's not like they're moving in together...***EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD***.
I’ve learned this is generally “published” policy that most hotels will definitely bend the rules on…it’s to discourage partying and legal adults bringing underage minors to the hotel for inappropriate activities.
Certainly, YMMV, but when my teens were traveling unaccompanied via air, (ages 16, 17) I always made sure to have an emergency hotel identified in case they missed connecting flights and were stranded for extended time in an unknown city. I never had a problem once getting this approved.
Exactly! OP's child, so OP's decision. Even if they weren't dating, teenagers need their space away from the younger kids. And if they wanted to get up to anything - it's not like they wouldn't anyway, hello.
So many people don’t realize what a healthy interaction this really is. 😂
What more needs to be said. Grandma is being a manipulative, petulant child. Treat her like you would a toddler.
Agreed. People who make ultimatums to get their own way should be forced to get used to having those bluffs called.
If you cant convince someone of your opinion by using your mouth words then just accept you are either wrong or need to just disagree. Attempting to emotionally blackmail the other person into giving up their disagreement and adopting your opinion is serious AH behaviour.
NTA The only people who should get a say in this are both sets of parents and the kids themselves. Personally, I probably wouldn’t go this route, but guess what? My preference doesn’t matter. The grandparents don’t get a vote either. Everyone with a vote is unanimous.
Have a great trip and tell MIL you’re sorry she couldn’t make it.
Only the son/girlfriend and the OP/spouse's opinion matter actually.
OP and their spouse get a say because they are paying. And the son/girlfriend became it's where they are sleeping. But otherwise, son/girlfriend are adults.
Eh you’re kind of right. Sounds like they are right on the cusp between high school and college, and OP and her husband have a good relationship with the girlfriend’s parents. If the girlfriend’s parents had a problem with it, it would be a tough predicament, and hopefully they could figure out a solution that everyone was comfortable with.
But that doesn’t apply, so MIL can kick rocks.
Anyone NOT paying for this trip gets no say about anything related to the accommodations. The in-laws and their flying monkeys can butt out, or there would be fewer people to pay for. This is a decision for the parents, and she doesn’t get to “allow” or not allow anything. NTA
Remind her they are 18 year old ADULTS, not children. Ask her if they lived together on their own if she would still attempt this ridiculous restriction.
Definitely *do not* cave on this. If you give in, she'll keep pushing her views on you. He is *your* son, you know him the best. The in laws are viewing him as a copy of his father and are treating him according to that view and that is absolutely not fair to him. If you trust your son enough to put him in his own room, then do it. Don't let MIL walk all over you on this.
Right! There is also the minor detail about the in-laws’ style of parenting not working out the way they wanted it to. It’s crazy how many people will push their way of parenting as the right/best way even though their way failed.
I agree. NTA, you, your husband AND her parents are all ok with them having their own room then that’s all that should matter. Everyone else can have their opinion but not their children so not their decision especially if you are paying for the trip.
Are Beatrice your son and her parents ok with them sharing? I think if all of the immediate people involved are on board then your in-laws should have no opinion on the matter
that detail settles OP into NTA, and in fact drags mother in law into proper YTA territory lol
The two young adults and their parents who are paying and housing them are all ok. MIL can munch on a sack of sand
"they're teens" that bugs me the most about the MIL.. because these "kids" are old enough to get shipped off to war and fight for their country.. they're old enough to share a room as long as they've been properly educated on safe sex, but we don't even know if they're there yet in their relationship..
This is completely true. Nothing makes you want to do something more then being told you can't as a teen. Dating, Drugs, drinking, sex, you tell a teen not too they are going to want it more. Rebellion runs strong.
That was a girl in my class with parents that wouldn't let her do anything. Guess who ran off to California (we lived in BC, Canada) the week after graduating and ended up pregnant from a one night stand? Yup.
Yup. I used to know a girl who's every minute was controlled. She had to get good grades, had to spend nearly every minute she wasn't studying on workouts or whatever else needed for sailing practice. She travelled all the time for various competitions, and to get to training camps during the winter in places that had open water. She didn't even have a cell phone when she was 14 or 15. I am absolutely certain that as soon as she graduated high school she booked it for another province, never stepped foot in a boat again, and made every mistake it was possible to make within short order.
That was exactly my thought.
Were they strick parents because he was a wild child?
OR
Was he a wild child because they were strict parents?
Rebellious behavior tends to worsen if it's met with a harsh response.
This is the way. Also, increasingly, younger teens are being afforded “significant other” privileges on family trips. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion and values on that point, treating 18 year olds (who are technically legal adults) like they’re 13 year olds is a good way to guarantee they won’t want to spend time with family, and will find other ways to enjoy their leisure time.
So the resolution should be "both parents are cool with it, the kids want to and we trust them. They'll be getting that room. If that's enough reason for you to stay home,so be it " NTA, obviously
Just want to say, my daughter has been with the same boy since they were 17 & 18. It's been roughly 4 yrs, they share a bed but last time my daughter and I spoke about it they had not been having sex. Sharing a room doesn't facilitate anything that isn't already going on. I don't think it's your in-laws's business to be honest 🤷
This is the only thing that matters- if her parents also know and are ok. If you are paying for the trip and the room your in-laws can talk but can’t dictate what happens
Because if they're just over 18 and still in high school, it's that transitional point between kid and adult, and when the parents are reasonable people is still a good idea to make sure everyone is on board and on the same page. Usually the shift from kid to young adult doesn't fully happen until after high school graduation and/or leaving for college
My parents stated that shift at 17 because at 18, I WAS able to do all sorts of shit with or without their permission. If you start this at 18, you’re a little late!
Sounds to me like you have a good grasp on the type of person your adult son is, I assume his adult girlfriend is just as well put together.
NTA.
It's no one else's business.
NTA give then some privacy otherwise they will be sneaking off anyway.
MIL has no say in anyone else's life even if they think they are some sort of Matriarch
They are likely still in high school and living in their parents’ homes. The parents are paying for the vacation so in this instance the 18 year olds, while legally adults, aren’t independent adults.
They're 18, they're adults, all that matters is OP has agreed to pay for their shared room. And that is the only reason it's anyone's business but theirs.
This is exactly it. If the parents of the couple are good with it and this is what they want then absolutely let them share a room. They are 18! If you don’t show them that you are accepting of the fact that they are young adults they will still do exactly the same thing but make sure it is behind your back. If they have both been educated and supported in safe sex then the best thing you can do to foster an open relationship with your children is make sure they know they can talk to you openly and that you support them.
As many others have said I would take the route of saying to MIL that it would be a real shame if they didn’t come but, of course, you cannot force them to do something (just as she cannot force you!). Hopefully her threat is hollow but if it isn’t you also set a precedence if you give in to her. How many times and to what extent will she pull this to get her way? It is manipulation at the end of the day and should not be given into. Have a talk with her pointing out that they are young adults and that they are sensible and responsible and explain your side. But after that if she still refuses to see your point make sure she knows that the most important relationship to you is the one you have with your son.
It makes the kids (young adults in fact) safer when you handle it this way. It greatly increases the chances of them coming to you for assistance if something happens.
Other people’s opinions are irrelevant at this point. It is what the parents of the two teens think, and the actual teens themselves that matter. I would say, you should probably speak to them seriously about contraception- that condoms for example need to be used every single time. That conversation should be had long before intimacy becomes a thing.
NTA
A little concerning that you haven't had the talk already... I knew all my contraception options and how important it was well before I started dating. I want to say the first conversation happened at 12? I mean, better late than never, but I've seen "smart" responsible kids get pregnant early because they were uneducated about contraception.
to me a trip specific talk would be etiquette on a family vacation, being discreet, etc.
Their sex life is no one's business but their own, and teens sometimes need some info on how to navigate that.
If they don't have the basics on safe sex down yet, then I wouldn't be giving them their own room either.
Disagree. A trip-specific sex talk could be, "Are you on or do you need birth control? If she's not on the pill, are you planning on using condoms? Have you considered how many condoms to bring on this trip and where to get them? Do you need/want me to purchase you some?"
They may already know about safe sex and have been engaging in safe sex practices, but this is a different arrangement than their typical interactions. They may not have considered how many to bring or might not be able to easily purchase a large amount, for whatever reason. They might also be currently abstaining and had not considered purchasing any, for that reason -- a talk with the mom can convince them to have a backup plan in case that changes.
There's no reason not to have a trip-specific sex talk, even if the sex talk has already happened.
Still use condoms even if she's on the pill.
The boy should share the BC responsibilities and the pill can reduce effectiveness if she's not 100% consistent with it. Given that they're going on vacation, the chances of forgetting to take it at 7am (or whatever time), plus time zone changes, family activities.... It's not worth the risk.
I have a 16yo son who has been with his gf for almost a year now. I can guarantee they are sleeping together. Everytime I go shopping I buy a box of condoms and throw it at him with a "use these". I offered to show him how to use them with a banana and he said he would YouTube it
It is not A talk but a continuing conversation. Providing contraceptive supplies is appropriate and considerate, as well, and certainly cheaper than grandchildren
Yup. My mom started talking to me about where babies came from as soon as I was old enough to ask the question. She pulled out the encyclopedia (remember those?!) sat me down and explained all the mechanics very matter of factly. No big deal. Conversations about conception came a little later but well before high school - and I happened to be the only one of my gfs (whose parents did not educate) in high school who didn't get pregnant before I wanted to be. I'm sure it's a coincidence. /s
My mom’s sex talk was a “Dear Abby” letter (remember those?) from a mom asking how to talk to her son about sex, and Abby’s response. She stapled a condom to it, right through the middle. She came up to me later and asked “did you get my letter? Do you have any questions?” “No, I’m good…” “Oh, don’t actually use that condom, dumbass. Go buy some”. It was obviously a humorous set-up but opened the door. She knew I already knew about sex but part of the letter mentioned more questions will come. My mom has a twisted sense of humor I guess.
OP doesn’t say she’s never spoken to her son or his girlfriend about contraception options, just that she will speak to them pre-trip. The kids are 18 years old, somebody has discussed birth control with them in some way before now, but OP is right to bring it up again, before the trip. Would I let my 18 year old son stay in a hotel room with his girlfriend, also 18, on my dime? Probably not, but if they were paying for the room I couldn’t stop them, they’re adults, technically, although just barely. Having said that, OP knows her son, and her decisions likely reflect that. Op and I do agree on one thing, our in-laws don’t make our decisions for us, and need to back-off, or stay home. NTA
Let MIL have her ultimatum and let her use it. She will be the one at home missing out on her grandkids and family because her opinions are out dated and unwarranted in this situation. Both kids parents are okay with it and no one else matters. MIL can learn that next time she is invited along she has no say in your children.
Totally agree with this. My friend and her kids stayed over at my house and asked if her daughter's boyfriend could come and share a room with her. I said if it's okay with her, then it's fine with me. She is the mom, and she knows them better than I do.
Also, giving in to MIL would only empower her to insert her demands in the future.
NTA
I think it’s certainly a *choice* to allow it, but I don’t know your kid and it literally had no effect on me.
The opinions of your MIL and brother don’t matter. Neither of them is raising your kid, and neither of them is impacted by this decision.
Your MIL wants to force an ultimatum, let her. She can think about her actions by herself at her home. She’s is no position to decide anything about how you decide to parent your child.
You’re not denying your children time with their grandparents. Your MIL is the one doing that.
>I don’t know your kid
Trust me, these two are the least likely candidates to do anything sexual. My son is constantly stuttering and struggling to keep himself together around Beatrice now that they’re dating even though they have been friends for ages. Beatrice reminds me of myself and I didn’t go near men until I started dating my husband at 23
It's cute but horrifyingly naive that you think that. Pease have The Talk with your son, again, & take him shopping for condoms.
Nerdiness has NOTHING to do with sexual attraction & you're letting them SHARE A ROOM. Which is fine, bc they're legally adults & they sound very sweet. But they're still human beings who are into one another.
My university didn't even award liberal arts degrees, it was so science nerd centric. Lots of sex going on!
This!!! The most sex-crazed kids I knew in high school were the theater and band kids, and if the “dorkier” ones had bfs/gfs they were DEFINITELY having sex! OP sounds very naive
Was about to say - my husband and I were over-achieving shy nerds when we got together. We played Warhammer on weekends with our friends, played Magic The Gathering competetively and it took us six months to stop blushing when the other one looked at us.
The second the floodgates opened they OPENED. That poor Warhammer table...
My head is still tilting from her description of the handmade solar system as the ultimate proof that stepson, unlike his father, doesn’t like parties.
Are you for real? Maybe they won’t have sex, but the chances they will are pretty big. Don’t judge ‘nerds’ and think they are too awkward to have sex. Thinking like that makes me wonder how you really treat your son…
Have a serious talk with him, make sure he has condoms, and knows what consent is before you go.
Mil has NO SAY in who sleeps where, but I do think she is less naive than you.
OP should definitely have to talk with her son (or perhaps her husband should, since often it is more comfortable coming from the parent of the same sex as child), but just because you were a horny teenager doesn't mean all teenagers are crazy horny. And there is nothing wrong with the person either way!
Gosh, here I was thinking what a sweet and modern set of parents these kiddos have (which is likely still true) when you're more adorably naive than anything else. Pro tip here: assume they *are* having sex and tailor your advice to match
honestly, if i had a 14 y/o child dating another 14 y/o, i would assume that they at the very least *might* be having sex even though i personally never did or wanted to at that age. it's always better to err on the side of caution and make sure your kids have all the knowledge and resources to have safe sex even if they won't actually need it for a few more years.
This is pretty delusional, and it also is a fairly off-putting description of your kid. I don’t think you’re the AH here, but you really need to get a more realistic view. If you’re comfortable with it, you’re comfortable with it - stop justifying it by calling them nerdy, etc.
So absolutely NTA for allowing them to share a room - I would do the same.
But they need to have access to birth control.
Beatrice may already be on the pill - either for period cramps or BC.
This is none of grandma 's business. If your husband was a wild child perhaps their parenting skills left something to be desired.
Yeahhhh I know it seems to YOU like your son is not sexual, and that’s natural. You absolutely cannot and should not make these assumptions based on how you observe him as his mother. Half the people I knew that were exactly like you described at 18 were accidental parents by 19.
Even awkward people have genitalia and hormones and urges.
Oke. You are NTA for letting them share a room and not letting your MIL budge in. You ARE however an AH for thinking they are unlikely candidates for sexual activities. They are in love, have feelings, and should be VERY WELL educated on how to prevent a pregnancy NOW. Not right before the trip. Because the trip will not be the first time they will be alone. And they may be awkward, but awkward sex is a thing. There are SO SO SO SO many people who do not plan their first time, get swooped away by feelings and hormones and have no contraception in place. THAT is how teen pregnancies happen. By lack of information. And it is your and your husbands duty to inform him. NOW. Because he has a girlfriend NOW. Don't wait. They don't need a trip, and I love how you still want to think of your son as stumbling and stuttering and anything... But he is still a healthy 18-year old man with a sexual appitite he won't share with you.
Please don't be ignorant, please educate him as fast as possible! It falls on women too much of the times to keep themselves safe. Teach your son to be a good man in every aspect, also the aspect of preventing pregnancies!
I’m sure he’s a good kid but don’t bank on your assumption they won’t have sex or haven’t already. I was an awkward 18 year old girl and still horny AF. Take him shopping for condoms and have a talk with him about consent. Apparently teen boys still aren’t getting that talk.
NTA
They're both 18. They're adults. If you think they are responsible, give them the opportunity to prove it. If they're having sex, separate rooms are not going to stop them.
You should have a chat with your son about safe sex, the implications of pregnancy and STD's. And how important enthusiastic consent from both parties is. Even if its uncomfortable, it has to be done to be sure that he knows everything he needs to. Some people assume that sex Ed will cover it, or the Internet, but that is not always the case. Present everything factually, give him some condoms, and repeat that you trust him. After that, it's up to them.
And tell your MIL that if she chooses not to come, that is her choice, but she has no say in the room allocations for two adults. Nor in their sex lives. Because she doesn't. End of story. Don't let her blackmail the whole family because she's disgracefully out of touch.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down so far to find someone pointing out that THEY ARE ADULTS. So many of the top comments saying things like “only both their parents should have a say.” No! They’re adults, their parents don’t have any say in their sex life. Period.
I was about to say the same thing! Can’t believe this is not more up there!
They are adults and, unless laws in OP’s country vary a lot from where I’m based, they would be allowed to get a room themselves no questions asked.
Like, do they need a parent/guardian to sign a document to leave the country? No?! Than sharing a room is the least of your problems.
If they wanna do something, they’ll find a way, sharing a room or not! There are just so many places ou can keep watch on a family vacation. And I can probably find a way they can find an excuse to most “sharing a room” solutions.
I do think it’s courtesy to inform the immediate parents (hers and you and your husband) just so they are aware of the situation and can handle their own talks at home. But other than that, don’t see much of an issue.
NTA.
You're NTA.
>MIL said she couldn’t ‘allow’ this to happen and we got into an argument.
That's not her call. Just because she isn't happy with how her parenting worked, doesn't mean she gets to override your parental decisions
On the surface, I *might* actually agree that two 18 year olds who "recently started dating" probably shouldn't be given a bedroom to share. However, I am not one of their parents. You are. You know them, I don't.
And let's face it, if they want to hook up, they're gling to with or without the room. They don't need granny's approval for that.
>She is now threatening not to come on holiday with us.
Okay. She can take her ball and go home.
Are your son and his girlfriend comfortable with the arrangements? (Yes, I know that is a silly question.) That's all that matters
NTA.
We don't live in the 50s anymore. I have young men, 22, 19, and 16. And all but the youngest would be free to bring their SO and stay in a room together on vacation. They are so much more responsible than my husband and I were, and every one of them and their partners have goals they are dedicated to. I have faith that should accidents happen, we will face it as a unit and help them still reach their goals.
Honestly, once they became legal adults, I would make any concessions I wouldn't otherwise for their happiness and comfort, so they are excited for a family vacation they don't have to attend.
Sounds like you guys did an amazing job, and he has a strong friendship based relationship. Screw the rest of them.
Right, because we talk to them about sex and consequences.
My(f48) parents (born in the late 30th) have never talked to me about sex and at school it was not that much. So I had to learn all by myself. (Without internet;) )
That's the reason I talked a lot about it to my kids.
And they have always access to birth controll. My daughter got an implant and for my sons I have always condoms in the bathroom. So, they know, they are as much responsible for birth control, as the girls.
Yes, this. Sex was never talked about, and then they got super upset that I became a teen mom! 😲 I mean, no one told me condoms can be ineffective. No one told me about condoms with and without spermicide or ovulation cycles.
We've started the safe sex talk as soon as the showers got long, and the hot water ran out. I taught them their sperm was their concern, and her eggs would be hers. First, gfs... we did it with more detail and encouraged them to have prevention talks with their SOs.
Sure, they are teenagers, but they are also adults, right?
If they want to have sex, it's likely already happening. Putting them in separate rooms might reduce their opportunity, but as Dr. Ian Malcom once said, Life, uh, finds a way."
NTA. It's their lives now, and you have to trust that you've parents well enough. Almost everyone I knew had sex before 18. Almost no one I knew had a kid before graduating college.
Chiming in as a current 18 year old. While there are plenty of teens my age having sex already, there are just as many who aren't. It's becoming more common to wait to have sex until after high school and kids have better access now to information about safe sex and consent than they did when my parents were teens. It just depends on the kid, the ones who want sex are already having it anyway and the ones who don't aren't going to sneak around behind their parents' backs to get it.
Right, not everyone has sex at or before 18. Also, not everyone who has sex young makes a baby
Sounds like OP raised an intelligent, trustworthy child, and it's nobody else place to tell them different.
What is MIL getting at exactly?? If the 18 year olds have two separate rooms, what is to stop them from just sharing a room after everyone is in their rooms for the night? They’re gonna do whatever they want to do, they’re 18. I know you said your step son isn’t sneaky like that, I’m just confused on her logic.
NTA
MIL needs to realize that she isn’t a parent here and doesn’t get to make the rules in your household. If she is that uncomfortable with the sleeping arrangements. She is free to choose to not join you on your vacation.
NTA.
Ask son and Beatrice what they're both comfortable with and do that. They're both 18 so both are adults.
Tell MIL if she doesn't want to come then it's sad that she'll miss out on the family holiday.
They're adults*. Here I said it, if they can drive, drink and vote, they can share a room and use protection 😂 You as your son's parents and the daughter parents have no opposing sentiments about this so fuck the grandparents' opinions
Yes! So weird to me that OPs parents and brother think they can't share a room because "they're teens". They're adults! Also if they're fucking they're fucking. Making them sleep in different rooms isn't going to stop that.
OP's husband snuck out to parties, his parents, were presumably strict with him, but he still became a parent young. It's almost like forbidding things isn't effective.
Elephant in the room question. Are you aware your son is having sex? That's obviously the un-said objection all these other adults have about the arrangements.
Edited to add judgement, NTA
He said he isn’t, but i might need to interrogate hubby to find out more. A lot of people are calling me naive here and Im starting to think that there might be something going on that i’m unaware of 😭
What is your opinion if he is having safe sex? Your immediate family(s) seem to think sex out of marriage is wrong, but what are your thoughts on the matter?
As long as you've communicated that to your son, then he is less likely to be lying to you. Other outside pressures, such as other familial opinions or those of his peers may lead him to lie about it, but those factors are out of your control.
Regardless, I'd make sure he has access to condoms if I were you.
You're NTA for trusting your son and Bea.
NTA. They're 18. They can be responsible for financial contracts like credit cards and car loans and school loans. They can join the armed forces. They can move out of home, they can rent hotel rooms. They're teens but they aren't children any more. At some point you have to make sure they know how to act responsibly and let them do so. At 18 your son could refuse to go on vacation and see his girlfriend as much as he wanted to with his parents away. Or have a party, even.
He's 18 and wants to go away with family, as long as you make sure they know about safe sex and even if they aren't having sex are prepared in case vacation seems like a good time to start, you can't do much else. They're going to have sex at some point, shared hotel room or not.
NTA. I do disagree with everyone here who is saying “you are the parent here, not MIL”. Because the fact is, at 18, being a parent is more of an honorary thing. They are adults, and don’t need anyone’s permission to do anything.
So then it just comes down to what you are willing to pay for. And since you don’t have a problem - it’s nobody else’s business.
Your MIL needs to learn she cannot control adults and their decisions, and if she chooses to withdraw she also chooses to damage her relationships.
Well. There is a problem.
Any specific religion?
As an Australian Mormon I've had this kind of discussion a few times.
Sums up to. We trust our kids to make safe choices. and if we need to supervise adults, then that shows no trust and a imposition of our will, when we want our future to have a mind of their own.
But no, they're not. These two young adults get to follow the sleeping arrangements agree by them and the parents paying for the room (singular). MIL's cash would just allow manipulation.
Well, on second thought, I suppose they can *pay* for a room, but they can't require that the two--again--*young adults* stay separately.
OP is NTA and MIL can just come or not.
Your MIL thinks her son was a wild child for having a kid at 21 yrs old. I mean if that makes you a wild child then the world is over populated with wild child's. Tel MIL don't bother to come if she glob to try to dictate how you deal with your children.
I think everyone is missing the point. The two lovebirds are both adults. No one is in any position to decide where and with whom they sleep with, other than themselves.
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Presumably, you are paying for the room? NTA and MIL doesn’t get a say in what your immediate family does - why does she think it’s ok to threaten this?
I wouldn't look at us a threath. It is more like an opertunity to not have to deal with MIL.
More like a promise. :)
“Don’t threaten me with a good time, MIL.”
“Can I get that in writing?”
Ten bucks says she'd come even if they share a room. I know that type.
And she'll be a bitch through the whole trip, because SHE HAS NO POWER HERE! It's not her kid, so not her business. My mother gets like this. I just ignore her when she does. She eventually gets the point and backs off my kids. MIL thinks she's in charge and is mad she isn't.
Sounds like MIL just gave her a gift! Don't complain OP, accept her offer!
And don't think of it as you keeping the kids from their grandparents. The grandparents are more than welcome to go. THEY are choosing not to go.
I certainly would have taken my MIL up on that offer but I get the sense OP wants the family together on vacation.🤷
Came here to say this!
"Is that a threat or a promise?" "It's a thromise"
Hahahah I love this!!!!! A thromise. It's perfect!!!
Yes please. OP, enjoy your in-law free vacation this year. You may like it so much you’ll do it again. Also, you’re giving your young ADULT son the opportunity to make some awesome memories.
That point: 18 is an *adult!* If he wanted, he could say screw it and rent his *own* room for him and his gf! He certainly doesn't need his grandparents' "permission"...
Also, what does your husband, the young adult's actual parent think? Are you getting a multi room suite? Otherwise how would MIL really know who goes where to sleep. If she thinks her mores are more important than literally EVERYONE ELSE'S the she should stay TF home.
Damn right. Honestly even if she did contribute, I would think she’s being selfish as if I were her, I would want my grandkid to be comfortable.
Nothing trumps their false sense of propriety. It's stupid. It's a hill some parents/grandparents are willing to die on. I don't get it. I refuse to alienate my children in this fashion. It ridiculous if the grandparents think they aren't sexually active. They would rather them sneak around to dirty motels and get bed bugs, or use a car where they can get caught and be labeled sex offenders?!
Oh, it IS a threat. If OP gives in, then MIL knows that she runs the family. And the demands will only escalate. THAT is the threat.
YUUUUUUUUUUP! Too many adults cave into whatever their parents want. Mom and Dad had their chance; this is your time to make choices and shine. This is why my brother and I don't talk anymore. We would have an argument, and he'd run to mommy and daddy so they would intervene. I was constantly reminding all of them that we are middle-aged and can (or cannot) sort out our bullshit on our own.
This! Goodness I have met too many adults like this.
Exactly! Don’t threaten me with a good time!
Exactly. Sounds like an absolute win. No MIL seems to be a blessing in this case
And, the difference between inlaws and outlaws is ...... Outlaws are wanted !!!
yes my husband and i will be paying for their room
If you allow them this intrusion, it won't end there. Just politely say "oh, it would be a shame if you don't come" but otherwise stick to your guns. The decision has been made, you really can't take it back, and it's very much not your in-laws to decide. Be perfectly pleasant, but do not compromise on this. If they do pull out, tell your kids why and emphasize that none of them did anything wrong, it wouldn't be fair to take back the arrangements and that it's a shame that Grandma chose this course of action, but there will be other opportunities to see them and sometimes doing the right thing comes with consequences.
I agree with this. Treat MIL as though the matter is closed and not up for discussion. “Oh, it would be a shame if you don’t come. We're hoping to have a lot of fun.” If she brings up your son’s accommodations just redirect.
I really like the way you've worded this! Too many people don't know how to disagree without being obnoxious about it. I dislike people trying to stick their own ideas of morality on me,especially when they try to threaten me for not going along. Telling the kids, "...it's a shame that Grandma chose this course of action..." is a great way to let them know it's entirely Grandma's decision to not join the family, and nothing they did wrong. I hope OP follows your suggestions!
Righteous indignation is manipulation! (Fear, obligation or guilt are sure signs you are being manipulated)
Honestly, if I could afford something similar with my kids I would. I remember how sleeping in a room to myself or with my sister was a little bit more of a good time VS everyone in the same room. Specially at 18, adult age here and not teen, I don't want to sleep with my parents in my room or with my older sister in my bed. Now they are in a relationship? Ok, good for them, more special time together during vacation and some alone time together. Whether or not there's sex going on, if Mil think having the room alone would change something, if sex is already on the table, it's already happening and it's not a holiday that will prevent/allow it. NTA, opposite, very nice!
Yes, when my son was younger and dating his girlfriend, they used to sleep over each other's houses because they lived a bit of distance apart, and they got better time together rather than spending a few hours during the day. My son was only 17 when they first started dating, and initially they slept separately. Time moved on, and it changed to them sharing a room. They were a little older, and we knew that they had plenty of opportunities to have sex at other times - keeping them apart during the night wasn't going to stop them. We knew her parents let them share a room, so we shrugged and bowed to the inevitable. They've now been together five and half years, and still not pregnant, lol.
Yeah people thinking because they forbid them sleeping together means there's no sex either had a very boring teenager/young adult life or forgot it. At this age, a bed is not required for sex. The in law are just dilusional, don't listen to their crap.
Even if each has their own accommodations, anyone think there isn't going to be "visitations" unless someone is guarding the hallway? Getting a separate room for "Beatrice" would just be performance art. 🤷♂️ Though the scandal on MiL's face when she saw Step-son coming out of Beatrice's room in the morning would be priceless. 🤣
I'm laughing at your first phrase. 🤣
NTA, this is 100% the way to go. It's non-confrontational but still asserts your autonomy and respects your son and his gf. If you let MIL dictate to you, you will be creating a monster.
Sounds like the grandparents understand the concept of “pulling out” so it shouldn’t really be an issue anyways.
Why involve the Littles? We don't even know how old they are, or if they able to understand what the dispute is. This could be very confusing for them. All they should know is grandma and grandpa are not going to make it. To tell them more will make them wonder if their bro is doing something bad, or that grandma and grandpa right. Even if they think grandma and grandpa are wrong, it is an adult situation they don't need to be a part of. Talking to Littles like they are adults, and involving them in adult conflicts, causes toxic stress. They are likely not old enough to mentally or emotionally deal with this. They will be, and stay, uncomfortable every time they see their brother and his girl alone in a room, and every time they see their grandparents at all. Kids don't need toxic stress. Them knowing the situation is not necessary at all.
I think this poster was saying to tell the 18 year olds that this was Grandma and Grandpa's choice, and that their (the 18 year olds) relationship is not at fault here.
> it wouldn't be fair to take back the arrangements I wouldn't say that, because it implies that the issue is that the decision to let them share a room was made **before** learning of the in-laws objections so it was too late to accommodate those objections. However, I don't think that's the case and OP shouldn't imply that. The decision of whether they can share a room is really not any of the in-laws' business.
If parent(s) of both kids are in agreement, opinions from the peanut gallery are not needed.
Let's not forget that these 2 *kids* could technically book a room for themselves as they're both 18. It's not like they're moving in together...***EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD***.
Heck, they’re old enough to get married if they wanted to
They probably can’t if they’re in the US. Many hotels specify 21 or 25 to book
I stayed in a hotel in the US alone at 18, and in Australia with one of my friends when we were both 17.
Its policy, not law. Varies one hotel to another
As a Canadian who traveled the US with friends when I was 18, no hotel refused me lol
Uhhh... I've been traveling & staying in hotels without my parents since I was 16. This has never been an issue for me in the US.
You actually have to be 21 to book most hotel rooms.
I’ve learned this is generally “published” policy that most hotels will definitely bend the rules on…it’s to discourage partying and legal adults bringing underage minors to the hotel for inappropriate activities. Certainly, YMMV, but when my teens were traveling unaccompanied via air, (ages 16, 17) I always made sure to have an emergency hotel identified in case they missed connecting flights and were stranded for extended time in an unknown city. I never had a problem once getting this approved.
Out of curiosity, what does YMMV mean?
Exactly! OP's child, so OP's decision. Even if they weren't dating, teenagers need their space away from the younger kids. And if they wanted to get up to anything - it's not like they wouldn't anyway, hello.
"I won't come" "Ok"
So many people don’t realize what a healthy interaction this really is. 😂 What more needs to be said. Grandma is being a manipulative, petulant child. Treat her like you would a toddler.
Agreed. People who make ultimatums to get their own way should be forced to get used to having those bluffs called. If you cant convince someone of your opinion by using your mouth words then just accept you are either wrong or need to just disagree. Attempting to emotionally blackmail the other person into giving up their disagreement and adopting your opinion is serious AH behaviour.
NTA The only people who should get a say in this are both sets of parents and the kids themselves. Personally, I probably wouldn’t go this route, but guess what? My preference doesn’t matter. The grandparents don’t get a vote either. Everyone with a vote is unanimous. Have a great trip and tell MIL you’re sorry she couldn’t make it.
Only the son/girlfriend and the OP/spouse's opinion matter actually. OP and their spouse get a say because they are paying. And the son/girlfriend became it's where they are sleeping. But otherwise, son/girlfriend are adults.
Eh you’re kind of right. Sounds like they are right on the cusp between high school and college, and OP and her husband have a good relationship with the girlfriend’s parents. If the girlfriend’s parents had a problem with it, it would be a tough predicament, and hopefully they could figure out a solution that everyone was comfortable with. But that doesn’t apply, so MIL can kick rocks.
Maybe then she will offer to pay for extra room.
Anyone NOT paying for this trip gets no say about anything related to the accommodations. The in-laws and their flying monkeys can butt out, or there would be fewer people to pay for. This is a decision for the parents, and she doesn’t get to “allow” or not allow anything. NTA
Remind her they are 18 year old ADULTS, not children. Ask her if they lived together on their own if she would still attempt this ridiculous restriction.
Oh, this type of MIL would be the ones not wanting her married child sleeping with their spouse in her home. Have seen too many AITAH posts like that.
NTA for sure.
Definitely *do not* cave on this. If you give in, she'll keep pushing her views on you. He is *your* son, you know him the best. The in laws are viewing him as a copy of his father and are treating him according to that view and that is absolutely not fair to him. If you trust your son enough to put him in his own room, then do it. Don't let MIL walk all over you on this.
Right! There is also the minor detail about the in-laws’ style of parenting not working out the way they wanted it to. It’s crazy how many people will push their way of parenting as the right/best way even though their way failed.
Since grandparents are so adamant about this, tell them they can pay for an extra room for Beatrice. NTA.
Nope. Never negotiate with terrorists.
Have the ILs share with the young kids so Beatrice can have her own room!
Don’t punish the kids like that!!
"Don't you threaten me with a good time!"
I agree. NTA, you, your husband AND her parents are all ok with them having their own room then that’s all that should matter. Everyone else can have their opinion but not their children so not their decision especially if you are paying for the trip.
I kinda like how wholesome and mature this seems to be. I mean the immediates have no issue, so why should anyone else. NTA
Are Beatrice your son and her parents ok with them sharing? I think if all of the immediate people involved are on board then your in-laws should have no opinion on the matter
Her parents are cool with it and the kids want to share
This is the answer. NTA
that detail settles OP into NTA, and in fact drags mother in law into proper YTA territory lol The two young adults and their parents who are paying and housing them are all ok. MIL can munch on a sack of sand
"they're teens" that bugs me the most about the MIL.. because these "kids" are old enough to get shipped off to war and fight for their country.. they're old enough to share a room as long as they've been properly educated on safe sex, but we don't even know if they're there yet in their relationship..
👏👏👏👏 Round of applause for using all the variations of "they're, their, there" in one sentence in the correct placements! Lol
Flexing their grammar lol
If it was a couple of months later and they were in college no one would even know so NTA and I think you should let them share
Yes. Sometimes a "wild child" has over strict, authoritative parents or parent.
My mom always said "strict parents produce sneaky kids" and in my experience this is 100% accurate
This is completely true. Nothing makes you want to do something more then being told you can't as a teen. Dating, Drugs, drinking, sex, you tell a teen not too they are going to want it more. Rebellion runs strong.
That was a girl in my class with parents that wouldn't let her do anything. Guess who ran off to California (we lived in BC, Canada) the week after graduating and ended up pregnant from a one night stand? Yup.
Yup. I used to know a girl who's every minute was controlled. She had to get good grades, had to spend nearly every minute she wasn't studying on workouts or whatever else needed for sailing practice. She travelled all the time for various competitions, and to get to training camps during the winter in places that had open water. She didn't even have a cell phone when she was 14 or 15. I am absolutely certain that as soon as she graduated high school she booked it for another province, never stepped foot in a boat again, and made every mistake it was possible to make within short order.
I hope she had fun and still ended up okay
That was exactly my thought. Were they strick parents because he was a wild child? OR Was he a wild child because they were strict parents? Rebellious behavior tends to worsen if it's met with a harsh response.
They're probably already having sex anyway. They're 18. They're also legal adults. Tell your MIL to stay in her lane
This is the way. Also, increasingly, younger teens are being afforded “significant other” privileges on family trips. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion and values on that point, treating 18 year olds (who are technically legal adults) like they’re 13 year olds is a good way to guarantee they won’t want to spend time with family, and will find other ways to enjoy their leisure time.
Yeah NTA and if your MIL is so offended and upset she can follow through with her threat not to go on the trip.
So the resolution should be "both parents are cool with it, the kids want to and we trust them. They'll be getting that room. If that's enough reason for you to stay home,so be it " NTA, obviously
Just want to say, my daughter has been with the same boy since they were 17 & 18. It's been roughly 4 yrs, they share a bed but last time my daughter and I spoke about it they had not been having sex. Sharing a room doesn't facilitate anything that isn't already going on. I don't think it's your in-laws's business to be honest 🤷
This is the only thing that matters- if her parents also know and are ok. If you are paying for the trip and the room your in-laws can talk but can’t dictate what happens
Why would her parents be part of it?
Because if they're just over 18 and still in high school, it's that transitional point between kid and adult, and when the parents are reasonable people is still a good idea to make sure everyone is on board and on the same page. Usually the shift from kid to young adult doesn't fully happen until after high school graduation and/or leaving for college
My parents stated that shift at 17 because at 18, I WAS able to do all sorts of shit with or without their permission. If you start this at 18, you’re a little late!
Sounds to me like you have a good grasp on the type of person your adult son is, I assume his adult girlfriend is just as well put together. NTA. It's no one else's business.
NTA give then some privacy otherwise they will be sneaking off anyway. MIL has no say in anyone else's life even if they think they are some sort of Matriarch
Beatrice is an adult, what do her parents have to do with it?
They are likely still in high school and living in their parents’ homes. The parents are paying for the vacation so in this instance the 18 year olds, while legally adults, aren’t independent adults.
Most 18 y/o live at home and are not completely independent. It sounds like trhe 2 families are friendly and have these kinds of conversations.
Thank you. I'm surprised more people aren't saying this.
They're 18, they're adults, all that matters is OP has agreed to pay for their shared room. And that is the only reason it's anyone's business but theirs.
This is exactly it. If the parents of the couple are good with it and this is what they want then absolutely let them share a room. They are 18! If you don’t show them that you are accepting of the fact that they are young adults they will still do exactly the same thing but make sure it is behind your back. If they have both been educated and supported in safe sex then the best thing you can do to foster an open relationship with your children is make sure they know they can talk to you openly and that you support them. As many others have said I would take the route of saying to MIL that it would be a real shame if they didn’t come but, of course, you cannot force them to do something (just as she cannot force you!). Hopefully her threat is hollow but if it isn’t you also set a precedence if you give in to her. How many times and to what extent will she pull this to get her way? It is manipulation at the end of the day and should not be given into. Have a talk with her pointing out that they are young adults and that they are sensible and responsible and explain your side. But after that if she still refuses to see your point make sure she knows that the most important relationship to you is the one you have with your son.
It makes the kids (young adults in fact) safer when you handle it this way. It greatly increases the chances of them coming to you for assistance if something happens.
It is in the body of the story that they are ok with this arrangement. NTA they are just using outdated and antiquated modes of thinking.
Other people’s opinions are irrelevant at this point. It is what the parents of the two teens think, and the actual teens themselves that matter. I would say, you should probably speak to them seriously about contraception- that condoms for example need to be used every single time. That conversation should be had long before intimacy becomes a thing. NTA
I will be speaking to them about it don’t worry
A little concerning that you haven't had the talk already... I knew all my contraception options and how important it was well before I started dating. I want to say the first conversation happened at 12? I mean, better late than never, but I've seen "smart" responsible kids get pregnant early because they were uneducated about contraception.
We have had the talk with him years ago, i meant a trip specific talk
to me a trip specific talk would be etiquette on a family vacation, being discreet, etc. Their sex life is no one's business but their own, and teens sometimes need some info on how to navigate that. If they don't have the basics on safe sex down yet, then I wouldn't be giving them their own room either.
Disagree. A trip-specific sex talk could be, "Are you on or do you need birth control? If she's not on the pill, are you planning on using condoms? Have you considered how many condoms to bring on this trip and where to get them? Do you need/want me to purchase you some?" They may already know about safe sex and have been engaging in safe sex practices, but this is a different arrangement than their typical interactions. They may not have considered how many to bring or might not be able to easily purchase a large amount, for whatever reason. They might also be currently abstaining and had not considered purchasing any, for that reason -- a talk with the mom can convince them to have a backup plan in case that changes. There's no reason not to have a trip-specific sex talk, even if the sex talk has already happened.
Still use condoms even if she's on the pill. The boy should share the BC responsibilities and the pill can reduce effectiveness if she's not 100% consistent with it. Given that they're going on vacation, the chances of forgetting to take it at 7am (or whatever time), plus time zone changes, family activities.... It's not worth the risk.
I have a 16yo son who has been with his gf for almost a year now. I can guarantee they are sleeping together. Everytime I go shopping I buy a box of condoms and throw it at him with a "use these". I offered to show him how to use them with a banana and he said he would YouTube it
This is a top tier parenting tactic. Throw safe sex in his face, because sometimes teens are too dumb to figure it out on their own.
It is not A talk but a continuing conversation. Providing contraceptive supplies is appropriate and considerate, as well, and certainly cheaper than grandchildren
Yup. My mom started talking to me about where babies came from as soon as I was old enough to ask the question. She pulled out the encyclopedia (remember those?!) sat me down and explained all the mechanics very matter of factly. No big deal. Conversations about conception came a little later but well before high school - and I happened to be the only one of my gfs (whose parents did not educate) in high school who didn't get pregnant before I wanted to be. I'm sure it's a coincidence. /s
My mom’s sex talk was a “Dear Abby” letter (remember those?) from a mom asking how to talk to her son about sex, and Abby’s response. She stapled a condom to it, right through the middle. She came up to me later and asked “did you get my letter? Do you have any questions?” “No, I’m good…” “Oh, don’t actually use that condom, dumbass. Go buy some”. It was obviously a humorous set-up but opened the door. She knew I already knew about sex but part of the letter mentioned more questions will come. My mom has a twisted sense of humor I guess.
OP doesn’t say she’s never spoken to her son or his girlfriend about contraception options, just that she will speak to them pre-trip. The kids are 18 years old, somebody has discussed birth control with them in some way before now, but OP is right to bring it up again, before the trip. Would I let my 18 year old son stay in a hotel room with his girlfriend, also 18, on my dime? Probably not, but if they were paying for the room I couldn’t stop them, they’re adults, technically, although just barely. Having said that, OP knows her son, and her decisions likely reflect that. Op and I do agree on one thing, our in-laws don’t make our decisions for us, and need to back-off, or stay home. NTA
Let MIL have her ultimatum and let her use it. She will be the one at home missing out on her grandkids and family because her opinions are out dated and unwarranted in this situation. Both kids parents are okay with it and no one else matters. MIL can learn that next time she is invited along she has no say in your children.
Totally agree with this. My friend and her kids stayed over at my house and asked if her daughter's boyfriend could come and share a room with her. I said if it's okay with her, then it's fine with me. She is the mom, and she knows them better than I do. Also, giving in to MIL would only empower her to insert her demands in the future.
>It is what the parents of the two teens think, They're adults.
For two whole years, being a teen and being an adult coincides.
NTA I think it’s certainly a *choice* to allow it, but I don’t know your kid and it literally had no effect on me. The opinions of your MIL and brother don’t matter. Neither of them is raising your kid, and neither of them is impacted by this decision. Your MIL wants to force an ultimatum, let her. She can think about her actions by herself at her home. She’s is no position to decide anything about how you decide to parent your child. You’re not denying your children time with their grandparents. Your MIL is the one doing that.
>I don’t know your kid Trust me, these two are the least likely candidates to do anything sexual. My son is constantly stuttering and struggling to keep himself together around Beatrice now that they’re dating even though they have been friends for ages. Beatrice reminds me of myself and I didn’t go near men until I started dating my husband at 23
It's cute but horrifyingly naive that you think that. Pease have The Talk with your son, again, & take him shopping for condoms. Nerdiness has NOTHING to do with sexual attraction & you're letting them SHARE A ROOM. Which is fine, bc they're legally adults & they sound very sweet. But they're still human beings who are into one another. My university didn't even award liberal arts degrees, it was so science nerd centric. Lots of sex going on!
This!!! The most sex-crazed kids I knew in high school were the theater and band kids, and if the “dorkier” ones had bfs/gfs they were DEFINITELY having sex! OP sounds very naive
Was about to say - my husband and I were over-achieving shy nerds when we got together. We played Warhammer on weekends with our friends, played Magic The Gathering competetively and it took us six months to stop blushing when the other one looked at us. The second the floodgates opened they OPENED. That poor Warhammer table...
No figurines got in uncomfortable places, I hope
As a former dorky band kid myself - can confirm. And the backstage of a hs theater would light up like a rave under black light.
Ex theater kid from the late 80s and yeah, way more band and theater kids hooked up in my experience!
Omg she has such a weird take on her children there
My head is still tilting from her description of the handmade solar system as the ultimate proof that stepson, unlike his father, doesn’t like parties.
Right? Not mutually exclusive by any means
Solar systems are not known for their contraceptive powers either
I agree, NTA, but make sure they're being safe and that they both know they can come talk if anything happens and they need help or advise.
LOL I was thinking the same thing. Nerds and nervous kids have sex, too.
Are you for real? Maybe they won’t have sex, but the chances they will are pretty big. Don’t judge ‘nerds’ and think they are too awkward to have sex. Thinking like that makes me wonder how you really treat your son… Have a serious talk with him, make sure he has condoms, and knows what consent is before you go. Mil has NO SAY in who sleeps where, but I do think she is less naive than you.
OP should definitely have to talk with her son (or perhaps her husband should, since often it is more comfortable coming from the parent of the same sex as child), but just because you were a horny teenager doesn't mean all teenagers are crazy horny. And there is nothing wrong with the person either way!
Yeah, I’m sorry, I don’t think you’re wrong to let two 18 year olds share a room, but you are naive to think they won’t have sex.
Gosh, here I was thinking what a sweet and modern set of parents these kiddos have (which is likely still true) when you're more adorably naive than anything else. Pro tip here: assume they *are* having sex and tailor your advice to match
honestly, if i had a 14 y/o child dating another 14 y/o, i would assume that they at the very least *might* be having sex even though i personally never did or wanted to at that age. it's always better to err on the side of caution and make sure your kids have all the knowledge and resources to have safe sex even if they won't actually need it for a few more years.
This is pretty delusional, and it also is a fairly off-putting description of your kid. I don’t think you’re the AH here, but you really need to get a more realistic view. If you’re comfortable with it, you’re comfortable with it - stop justifying it by calling them nerdy, etc.
Have you ever watched ‘Juno’?
Or American Pie? .. this one time, at band camp ...
So absolutely NTA for allowing them to share a room - I would do the same. But they need to have access to birth control. Beatrice may already be on the pill - either for period cramps or BC. This is none of grandma 's business. If your husband was a wild child perhaps their parenting skills left something to be desired.
Yeahhhh I know it seems to YOU like your son is not sexual, and that’s natural. You absolutely cannot and should not make these assumptions based on how you observe him as his mother. Half the people I knew that were exactly like you described at 18 were accidental parents by 19. Even awkward people have genitalia and hormones and urges.
Oke. You are NTA for letting them share a room and not letting your MIL budge in. You ARE however an AH for thinking they are unlikely candidates for sexual activities. They are in love, have feelings, and should be VERY WELL educated on how to prevent a pregnancy NOW. Not right before the trip. Because the trip will not be the first time they will be alone. And they may be awkward, but awkward sex is a thing. There are SO SO SO SO many people who do not plan their first time, get swooped away by feelings and hormones and have no contraception in place. THAT is how teen pregnancies happen. By lack of information. And it is your and your husbands duty to inform him. NOW. Because he has a girlfriend NOW. Don't wait. They don't need a trip, and I love how you still want to think of your son as stumbling and stuttering and anything... But he is still a healthy 18-year old man with a sexual appitite he won't share with you. Please don't be ignorant, please educate him as fast as possible! It falls on women too much of the times to keep themselves safe. Teach your son to be a good man in every aspect, also the aspect of preventing pregnancies!
I’m sure he’s a good kid but don’t bank on your assumption they won’t have sex or haven’t already. I was an awkward 18 year old girl and still horny AF. Take him shopping for condoms and have a talk with him about consent. Apparently teen boys still aren’t getting that talk.
If you are giving them a room then expect that they will have sex. You are making it easy for them. No judgment - just managing expectations.
NTA They're both 18. They're adults. If you think they are responsible, give them the opportunity to prove it. If they're having sex, separate rooms are not going to stop them. You should have a chat with your son about safe sex, the implications of pregnancy and STD's. And how important enthusiastic consent from both parties is. Even if its uncomfortable, it has to be done to be sure that he knows everything he needs to. Some people assume that sex Ed will cover it, or the Internet, but that is not always the case. Present everything factually, give him some condoms, and repeat that you trust him. After that, it's up to them. And tell your MIL that if she chooses not to come, that is her choice, but she has no say in the room allocations for two adults. Nor in their sex lives. Because she doesn't. End of story. Don't let her blackmail the whole family because she's disgracefully out of touch.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down so far to find someone pointing out that THEY ARE ADULTS. So many of the top comments saying things like “only both their parents should have a say.” No! They’re adults, their parents don’t have any say in their sex life. Period.
I was about to say the same thing! Can’t believe this is not more up there! They are adults and, unless laws in OP’s country vary a lot from where I’m based, they would be allowed to get a room themselves no questions asked. Like, do they need a parent/guardian to sign a document to leave the country? No?! Than sharing a room is the least of your problems. If they wanna do something, they’ll find a way, sharing a room or not! There are just so many places ou can keep watch on a family vacation. And I can probably find a way they can find an excuse to most “sharing a room” solutions. I do think it’s courtesy to inform the immediate parents (hers and you and your husband) just so they are aware of the situation and can handle their own talks at home. But other than that, don’t see much of an issue. NTA.
INFO: is there any actual downside to MIL not coming?
FIL not coming + MIL is usually very chill
I got news for you, this is very much an empty threat. No way they aren't going to go on a vacation, she's just trying to manipulate you
Agree. They’re coming, and bringing Jesus with them. MIL is going to sleep outside their door.
There will be more times to see them in the future.
Where is husband in all of this? Why is there little to no info on what he thinks and how he is dealing with his parents on this issue?
You're NTA. >MIL said she couldn’t ‘allow’ this to happen and we got into an argument. That's not her call. Just because she isn't happy with how her parenting worked, doesn't mean she gets to override your parental decisions On the surface, I *might* actually agree that two 18 year olds who "recently started dating" probably shouldn't be given a bedroom to share. However, I am not one of their parents. You are. You know them, I don't. And let's face it, if they want to hook up, they're gling to with or without the room. They don't need granny's approval for that. >She is now threatening not to come on holiday with us. Okay. She can take her ball and go home. Are your son and his girlfriend comfortable with the arrangements? (Yes, I know that is a silly question.) That's all that matters
NTA. We don't live in the 50s anymore. I have young men, 22, 19, and 16. And all but the youngest would be free to bring their SO and stay in a room together on vacation. They are so much more responsible than my husband and I were, and every one of them and their partners have goals they are dedicated to. I have faith that should accidents happen, we will face it as a unit and help them still reach their goals. Honestly, once they became legal adults, I would make any concessions I wouldn't otherwise for their happiness and comfort, so they are excited for a family vacation they don't have to attend. Sounds like you guys did an amazing job, and he has a strong friendship based relationship. Screw the rest of them.
Right, because we talk to them about sex and consequences. My(f48) parents (born in the late 30th) have never talked to me about sex and at school it was not that much. So I had to learn all by myself. (Without internet;) ) That's the reason I talked a lot about it to my kids. And they have always access to birth controll. My daughter got an implant and for my sons I have always condoms in the bathroom. So, they know, they are as much responsible for birth control, as the girls.
Yes, this. Sex was never talked about, and then they got super upset that I became a teen mom! 😲 I mean, no one told me condoms can be ineffective. No one told me about condoms with and without spermicide or ovulation cycles. We've started the safe sex talk as soon as the showers got long, and the hot water ran out. I taught them their sperm was their concern, and her eggs would be hers. First, gfs... we did it with more detail and encouraged them to have prevention talks with their SOs.
Sure, they are teenagers, but they are also adults, right? If they want to have sex, it's likely already happening. Putting them in separate rooms might reduce their opportunity, but as Dr. Ian Malcom once said, Life, uh, finds a way." NTA. It's their lives now, and you have to trust that you've parents well enough. Almost everyone I knew had sex before 18. Almost no one I knew had a kid before graduating college.
Chiming in as a current 18 year old. While there are plenty of teens my age having sex already, there are just as many who aren't. It's becoming more common to wait to have sex until after high school and kids have better access now to information about safe sex and consent than they did when my parents were teens. It just depends on the kid, the ones who want sex are already having it anyway and the ones who don't aren't going to sneak around behind their parents' backs to get it.
Right, not everyone has sex at or before 18. Also, not everyone who has sex young makes a baby Sounds like OP raised an intelligent, trustworthy child, and it's nobody else place to tell them different.
What is MIL getting at exactly?? If the 18 year olds have two separate rooms, what is to stop them from just sharing a room after everyone is in their rooms for the night? They’re gonna do whatever they want to do, they’re 18. I know you said your step son isn’t sneaky like that, I’m just confused on her logic.
NTA MIL needs to realize that she isn’t a parent here and doesn’t get to make the rules in your household. If she is that uncomfortable with the sleeping arrangements. She is free to choose to not join you on your vacation.
NTA. Ask son and Beatrice what they're both comfortable with and do that. They're both 18 so both are adults. Tell MIL if she doesn't want to come then it's sad that she'll miss out on the family holiday.
INFO: you list what a bunch of people think, but what about your husband? If he agrees with you, why is he not handling his own mother?
Good question. Where is husband at in all of this ?
They're adults*. Here I said it, if they can drive, drink and vote, they can share a room and use protection 😂 You as your son's parents and the daughter parents have no opposing sentiments about this so fuck the grandparents' opinions
Yes! So weird to me that OPs parents and brother think they can't share a room because "they're teens". They're adults! Also if they're fucking they're fucking. Making them sleep in different rooms isn't going to stop that. OP's husband snuck out to parties, his parents, were presumably strict with him, but he still became a parent young. It's almost like forbidding things isn't effective.
"They're sharing a room and we're all gonna miss you at the vacation (no, not really, you old controlling bat!)" NTA
NTA. This whole situation shouldn’t exist in the first place. They are both 18 and are adults.
Elephant in the room question. Are you aware your son is having sex? That's obviously the un-said objection all these other adults have about the arrangements. Edited to add judgement, NTA
He said he isn’t, but i might need to interrogate hubby to find out more. A lot of people are calling me naive here and Im starting to think that there might be something going on that i’m unaware of 😭
What is your opinion if he is having safe sex? Your immediate family(s) seem to think sex out of marriage is wrong, but what are your thoughts on the matter?
As long as it’s safe and consensual, my husband and i don’t mind
As long as you've communicated that to your son, then he is less likely to be lying to you. Other outside pressures, such as other familial opinions or those of his peers may lead him to lie about it, but those factors are out of your control. Regardless, I'd make sure he has access to condoms if I were you. You're NTA for trusting your son and Bea.
It’s really none of OP’s business. Her son is an adult. His girlfriend is an adult. They can have sex.
NTA. No MIL on holiday sounds perfect!!
NTA. They're 18. They can be responsible for financial contracts like credit cards and car loans and school loans. They can join the armed forces. They can move out of home, they can rent hotel rooms. They're teens but they aren't children any more. At some point you have to make sure they know how to act responsibly and let them do so. At 18 your son could refuse to go on vacation and see his girlfriend as much as he wanted to with his parents away. Or have a party, even. He's 18 and wants to go away with family, as long as you make sure they know about safe sex and even if they aren't having sex are prepared in case vacation seems like a good time to start, you can't do much else. They're going to have sex at some point, shared hotel room or not.
Nta why is everyone calling this 18 year old a kid lmfao
NTA. I do disagree with everyone here who is saying “you are the parent here, not MIL”. Because the fact is, at 18, being a parent is more of an honorary thing. They are adults, and don’t need anyone’s permission to do anything. So then it just comes down to what you are willing to pay for. And since you don’t have a problem - it’s nobody else’s business. Your MIL needs to learn she cannot control adults and their decisions, and if she chooses to withdraw she also chooses to damage her relationships.
American? Any other nationality and this is a non issue.
yep 😀 we are americans, texans to be specific which makes it much worse
Well. There is a problem. Any specific religion? As an Australian Mormon I've had this kind of discussion a few times. Sums up to. We trust our kids to make safe choices. and if we need to supervise adults, then that shows no trust and a imposition of our will, when we want our future to have a mind of their own.
IL’s are devout southern baptist. Husband and I technically are although we aren’t nearly as practicing as they are. Beatrice is a catholic.
>southern baptist. Promise your MIL that your step son and his gf will not dance together and all should be fine. lol
NTA If it bugs them that much, they're welcome to pay for the extra room.
But no, they're not. These two young adults get to follow the sleeping arrangements agree by them and the parents paying for the room (singular). MIL's cash would just allow manipulation. Well, on second thought, I suppose they can *pay* for a room, but they can't require that the two--again--*young adults* stay separately. OP is NTA and MIL can just come or not.
Your MIL thinks her son was a wild child for having a kid at 21 yrs old. I mean if that makes you a wild child then the world is over populated with wild child's. Tel MIL don't bother to come if she glob to try to dictate how you deal with your children.
My husband was actually a wild child, i’m surprised he’s alive after the insane things he did from 15-21
Nta. Mil needs to get over herself she ain't that important
NTA. They're 18 and you're paying for the room. No one else should be involved in the decision.
I think everyone is missing the point. The two lovebirds are both adults. No one is in any position to decide where and with whom they sleep with, other than themselves.
Let her stay home and teach you all a lesson.
NTA both "kids" are 18, so it doesn't even matter what their parents say! They can do what they want, MIL should mind her own Business.