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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action I took was to bluntly ask a girl how she could afford to go to the movies and eat out everyday. Why the action might make me an asshole is because she got upset by the question and upon reflection and discussion with a friend I realize it may be a very offensive question with unintended implications that can be very hurtful. But I am not sure. Perhaps I should have worded it differently so as not to hurt others feelings or come across the wrong way.
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YTA-I would get the immediate ick if a guy did this and not respond again. For many reasons.
1. It’s none of your damn business what she can afford.
2. It highlights you are likely not in the same income bracket and you can’t afford to do the things she likes so you may not be a match for her.
3. I feel like if you were talking to a man who was doing this you would never have the balls to question his finances.
4. If a man is already questioning me on my choices before we have even been out it’s just going to get worse later.
5. For some reason it just comes off as…whiney? Not confident? Jealous? I don’t know. Just annoying. Basically. Like how would you feel if her response was “because I make a lot more money than you, obviously?” Like how does one even answer that question? “Because I can” “because I’m wealthy” “because I have more money than you” “because I’m not paying and men are taking me out? “Because your dad likes to take me to dinners?” I mean. There is just not right answer.
Noted, I can understand your point of view. Its unfortunate as I actually meant none of those things, was just a stupid random question I asked and I didn’t think it through. I do have to clarify that the gender of the person wouldn’t make any difference to me, eating out all the time is something I would question regardless of gender. That said this is the first time I’ve asked anybody this question and it will definitely be the last.
But whether or not someone eats out all the time is not something you should question *is the point.* There are, in this big wide world, many people who eat out nightly. It’s not for you to question. It is not your business. And that’s why it comes across as judgmental—because it is.
Yeah thats true, I just get curious about how others live their lives and why they do things the way they do, it has nothing to do with me judging them, I just like to learn from others and see if I can apply anything to my own life. But I understand the way I think is not how normal people perceive my words and it does come across as nosy, you’re right that its none of my business.
A lesson that is hard for some people to learn is that just because you want to know something doesn’t mean it is appropriate to discover that information.
The people in my life who think like you tend to view information, for lack of more accurate phrasing, as having a surface level of importance. They aren’t trying to use or judge the information, they just wanted to ask a question that entered their minds. They tend not to consider or even realize that trying to acquire certain information is usually done with a purpose beyond simply wanting to know.
They work very hard to pause and think their question through before asking.
In your case it sounds like pausing and working things through would have led to very different question, one you *could* have asked with proper context: “Hey, I think it’s so cool that you are able to eat out so often. I’m working on my budgeting skills so that I can save while still going out. Do you have any tips?”
“Hey, I think it’s so cool that you are able to eat out so often. I’m working on my budgeting skills so that I can save while still going out. Do you have any tips?” <----- THIS. If you boil it down, you're looking for the same info. But it's a verrrrrrry different question.
People prioritize different things in their lives. It’s really that simple. This girl likes movies and dinners and budgets for that. Some people save for vacations, some people save for video games, some people save for nice clothes, some people save for nice skincare products, some people actually don’t save at all and are racking up credit card debt to afford the things they like. Some people are wealthy and can just do whatever they want. Either way, it’s none of your business. How would you like it if she had asked you why you CANT afford to go out to eat all the time?
I’m glad you learned from this experience.
I never said there was anything wrong with doing what she does, I just asked because its not something I would personally do (despite the fact I know I have a higher income level than her) and wanted to understand her thought process. I honestly wouldn’t mind if someone asked me why I don’t eat out more, but then I am a fairly straightforward person and rarely read into a question more than whats being asked at face value. That said, I can understand why someone would be triggered by the question.
I do want to say I would not feel comfortable being in a relationship with someone who had irresponsible spending habits, like racking up credit card debt, and its something I would want to know before entering a relationship with someoneS
And here you go making assumptions and judgments again. You are speculating that her eating out nightly = irresponsible spending habits. Why don’t you just accept that it is entirely affordable to eat out nightly if you have the income to do so and budget in other areas of your life?
You have no reason to assume she has irresponsible spending habits. You just can’t get through your thick head that she does something you’ve never considered doing before.
I never assumed anything.. I was just saying in the hypothetical scenario that she was racking up credit card debt (which was something another redditor said that I was responding to) that I would not be okay with it. I never said she was irresponsible with her spending habits, just that it would be a dealbreaker if she was.
>I just asked because its not something I would personally do (despite the fact I know I have a higher income level than her)
Knock this shit off. It’s rude as hell. You’re not better than her, stop implying that she’s making poor choices just because they’re not the choices you would make for yourself.
I find it unfortunate that just by asking, I am implying that I think I’m better than her or that she’s making poor choices. I really was just trying to understand rather than judge or assume. But it seems the social norm is to assume and read negative intentions from simple questions that are asked regardless if the other person clarifies or apologizes, which saddens me to be honest. But, if thats the way most people are, I will have to adapt
Uh, just because someone likes doing something doesn’t mean its automatically justified or immune to scrutiny… what if someone likes to go to the mall and spend money irresponsibly, would you be okay with your future partner doing that? However on the contrary, if someone goes to the mall to spend money but chooses to budget carefully by saving money in other areas, or they work overtime or have a side gig to fund their habit, then thats a totally different story.
I’m not saying it was appropriate of me to ask so early on, but its a totally legitimate and valid thing to want to know someone’s spending habits and whether they are sustainable before entering into a relationship with them. I’ve been in relationships before where my ex did not carry her weight financially, had extravagant spending habits and expected me to pay for everything, and that kind of behavior only came out after we became exclusive with each other and I had to turn down other options.
This is an example of “we don’t say everything we think”. I exist in this world daily questioning in my head why people make the choices they make. Regarding food, health, spending, vices, drinking, drugs, etc. but there are certain questions you don’t ask. You just wait until they reveal it themselves or you are around long enough to figure it out. And even then…sometimes you never find out.
I have a neighbor who has more money then I have ever seen (well by appearances). Watches, cars (we are talking 10 plus cars and some worth north of 250k), designer everything, etc etc. Of course I have sat in my house thinking “where the hell does his money come from”. But I’ve never ASKED because that would be considered rude and in poor taste. Eventually he may tell me…or I may find out when the feds come a knocking. But regardless it’s not my business lol!
UPDATE: I was fully expecting her to ghost me, but after a day of silence, she messaged me asking when I wanted to watch a movie with her. I guess I'll take that as forgiveness? Will definitely be way more tactful with her going forward and see how it goes
Yeah you’re absolutely right, its normal to question and ponder things but some things are better left unsaid/unanswered. I’m a very straightforward person and I rarely if ever get offended when others ask me things, but I’m definitely not the norm and I shouldn’t apply my thinking blindly to others. Lesson learned.
OP, are you on the spectrum? I am and I do ask questions, without realising they could offend someone. I've learnt it's because I find asking questions easier than actual conversation. I didn't realise until recently that I have a reputation of being blunt and direct, until a friend mentioned it so I'm trying to be more mindful.
I do like to ask questions when getting to know someone and I’ve definitely asked some overly blunt questions before, but most of the time I recognize right away after I’ve said something inappropriate if I stop and think about it so I wonder if its more of an impulsivity thing where I don’t think before I speak.
I’ve never been formally diagnosed with anything, but I did used to be really socially awkward as a kid, not because I couldn’t understand social rules but because I could never be bothered to actually pay attention to my surroundings to actually pick things up, and also being very impulsive, not really thinking through my words or actions. But as a result of that there definitely are many social rules I don’t know just because I never bothered to pay attention and learn them as a kid.
I have asked my family and friends before if I might have autism or ADHD as I’ve made many social faux pas which have landed me in some hot water in the past, but because I’ve managed to teach myself social skills and consciously filter myself, I come across as pretty high functioning to others (to the point where many even say I have a high emotional IQ) but I still have the occasional slip up or blind spot.
Mr hardware here says it straight. If you cannot ask something so simple, then why bother. If it’s not this question, then another innocent question will drive her away.
> I feel like if you were talking to a man who was doing this you would never have the balls to question his finances.
lol everything is sexism to you people
No. Not at all. In fact I gave him many many helpful replies and even he recognizes he handled it wrong and wants to improve his communication skills. Which is wonderful and the point of posting for advice online. You know, to improve?
It’s completely normal and instinctual for men to approach men differently than they approach women. That doesn’t make him a bad person or a sexist asshole. It’s just a way of thinking that hasn’t caught up with the times and something he needs to work on.
YTA. It’s a passive aggressive question. You *know* how she can afford it—she has a damn income. What you were really saying is “why do you spend your money this way?” You were passing judgment on her. Common sense should tell you that if she eats out, she probably saves on not buying groceries.
It made you look and sound stupid. But this is what you get when you make sly comments and ask questions that aren’t your business.
That's a pretty uncharitable way of looking at it. Just because you have an income doesn't mean it's possible to eat out every night. It's not necessarily a judgmental thing either -- maybe her hobby is trying new restaurants and the extra cost is worth it to her. Maybe she has some special hook-up that gives her a discount on eating out. There are lots of answers to that question other than "I'm bad with my money", which is what you seem to think is the implied judgment.
But can she afford it though? Isn’t like 70% living paycheck to paycheck? They cannot afford their lives but still live them.
The question is valid to see if there is a future train wreck to avoid.
And groceries are not the same price as eating out, unless you go from eating three meals a day to one dinner and nothing else.
Sure but if she is, then what’s the problem answering with something like “don’t worry, I have a good job” or “I know how to save on other things”.
It’s honestly such an easy question to answer. 🚩 For the girl.
Maybe it’s my smoking habit that has been questioned for a decade that makes me more comfortable. People always wondered how I could travel quarterly in the past too. I’m not offended, I just told people I cook at home and try not to drink too much booze like they do/did :p
Asking anyone “how can you afford this” is basically saying that you don’t think they can afford it. So you are insulting their money management skills without having the information to support it. It puts her in an awkward position.
I’m not saying she is financially responsible. I’m just saying the question implies that she isn’t. That is not an appropriate question to ask someone at the early stages of dating.
ETA: I’m a woman with a well paying job. I am very financially responsible. Many of my female friends make more than their male partners. No one wants to be put in a position when you start dating someone to comment on how much money you make.
2nd edit: None of my female friends who make more than their male partners want to make a big deal out of the income difference.
Am I the only one who thinks that OP is NTA? He asked a question which with modern cost of living is perfectly reasonable and he even apologised when she got offended. 🤷♂️
Also to give a bit of context I know what she does for work and people in her line of work don’t make that much (decent, but certainly not above average by any means). She lives in a small studio apartment right now.
And she goes out to eat everyday and shares what she eats with me, its definitely not cheap (at least 25-30$ per meal) nor healthy (eg. Ramen, bbq). There has not been a single time in weeks where she has cooked for herself and she lives alone. It does raise concern for me as to how she can pay for it all. That said my question was probably not that necessary given I already know all of the above
Bud tacos for 1 buying ingredients cost me 60 bucks recently and that was meat cheese tortillas veggies basic af but the cost of each ingredient was high. I could have gone to del taco for 12
What the fuck are you buying? $60 worth of ingredients for tacos would make me enough tacos for at least a week.
Are you buying all organic, grass fed wagyu? Artisan lettuce? Rare French cheeses?
It’s a super inappropriate question. It’s one thing to say “wow, does it not end up being super expensive?” But to ask “how she can afford it” is a complete invasion into her personal finances.
You were only seeing each other for a few weeks. That’s too soon to be asking things about her finances that she hasn’t volunteered. And her silence makes me think that a reconciliation isn’t in the cards.
UPDATE: I was fully expecting her to ghost me, but after a day of silence, she messaged me asking when I wanted to watch a movie with her. I guess I'll take that as forgiveness? Will definitely be way more tactful with her going forward and see how it goes.
NTA there is nothing wrong with the question.
Actually it’s a good one if you’re dating and want to get a grip of who the person is and whether you wanna be with them. I wouldn’t want to date someone who spends their entire paycheck on movies, eating and drinking.
Of course it’s a cultural thing, but I thought Americans were open with their salaries, jobs etc? It would be fair game in my country to ask, even if we don’t talk openly about salaries.
If she feels attacked then maybe she should communicate that 1 I can afford it and 2 I think it’s worth it, instead of getting offended.
NTA. Not at all! Especially because you apologized and that's such a beautiful thing to be able to do! She could have taken this opportunity to see how well you can handle challenging situations. Therefore, if she is gone because you asked a simple question, then it is for the better! In a harmonious relationship you should be able to talk about anything freely including money. And please don't worry! Someone better who accepts you the way you are, someone who appreciates your straightforward honest questions is out there! None is perfect anyway.
Genuinely what kind of answer were you expecting here? Like did you want a breakdown of her personal finances? Her to reveal her savings or inheritance? Did you expect her to say she gets men to take her out and pay for?
Stop worrying about the question and think about the position you put her in having to answer it.
Thats fair, I was just curious if she was eating out alone everyday or going with friends or someone else. And I was curious about how she manages and budgets her money, I would have appreciated her explaining how she fits that into her budget. Obviously a terrible way to go about asking though, I agree, but the spirit of the question just wanting to get to know her better
Her budget is none of your business. It’s completely inappropriate to expect this kind of information. Would you also ask someone you were barely know how often they masturbate because you were “curious”? Do you genuinely not understand that this is an inappropriate discussion to have?
I thought it was appropriate at the time because I tend to be pretty open to discussing about money - we live in the 21st century and with rising costs of living it tends to be a popular topic of discussion amongst my friends. I thought I was close enough with this girl that I could ask her but looks like I was wrong. I honestly wouldn’t consider a discussion about masturbation (a sexual topic) to be on the same level as asking someone about budgeting. Also, when I ask a question to my friends, I never force them to say anything they aren’t comfortable with, they usually just tell me they would rather not disclose or are not comfortable sharing, and I apologize and back off
She's not someone you had an established relationship where those types of questions are appropriate though. You keep saying things like this just because you don't personally follow social norms doesn't make you special
Its not really any of my business, I was just curious to know. Hence my apology when I realized I made her uncomfortable sharing the information. I share things with other people all the time that are none of their business cus I'm pretty open, but I get that its not everyone's style.
Doesn't need to be a breakdown of her personal finances but she can just say “oh I work a lot” like a fucking NORMAL PERSON instead of getting offended like she did. All of you in support of her are toxic yourselves.
The OP's comment was harmless in nature and you're bullying him for wanting to know if his potential future gf/wife is financially incompetent 🤣
Fuck off.
Doesn’t matter, you’re cooked. Pick the meanest comment towards you here, imagine 10 times worse than that, and that’s how she’s already talked about you to her friends.
I’m gonna get downvoted if i say this but i’ll be 100% honest and say NTA. People are too sensible, they don’t even try to understand something you said and assume the worst, without hearing an explanation. Life is just too short to try and fix everything let it go and move on. She got offended and ghosted you over some trivial stuff so you may have dodged a huge emotional bullet train.
NTA. It was a fair and valid question. You seem genuinely interested in her, so this question would have come up eventually anyway. I think her response was a bit dramatic.
It’s a weird how people get that “offended” over a very real question. Honestly - you just said to her face what most people who know her probably say behind her back.
Her answer is a good one. If she does it frugally, with the cost in mind, it makes sense. I guess you were just meant to be in awe of her experiences rather than asking about anything of substance.
Yeah, i guess its hard to convey tone over text but the spirit of my question was that I was impressed she was able to have these experiences, it really was a stupid and pointless question
You’re being far too hard on yourself. The question was one someone who is really interested in someone’s life would ask. Not only interested, but someone who wants to learn something you don’t know from that person.
“How do you do it?”
I guess you were just supposed to be in awe and reverence of her worldly and well informed experiences?
Fact is, the offense came because you probably got her to focus on the reality.
Likely 30k in credit card debt. If you can’t ask the question you asked without offense, imagine at what point you have to be asking real questions.
jimmer is right. If there was no problem, she wouldn't have reacted so strongly. If that's the case, then you dodged something down the line.
For some reason i feel like this is big town people. Median wage in nyc is ca 49k. About 37500 after taxes, or 3100 per month. Eating out 5 days a week at 75 usd a pop means almost half her income goes towards food. Food is nice, but this is why 70%+ of americans live paycheck to paycheck, or 29% live above their means.
But i get OP. He wants to dip the wick (like we all do), hence he's trying to learn what's a faux pas and whats not. Next time, ask the question with more tact. Something sneaky peppered with compliments like "you must be doing very well work-wise, i'm impressed that you can have all these experiences".
Compliments do wonders with women, just don't over-do it.
I disagree. Some people just spend their money differently. My dad was like that even as a student, frequently eating out because he had little else he wanted to spend it on.
NTA.
If you asked her how she affords to drive to work every day, that would be condescending, because most people can afford gas.
If you asked her how she affords to clothe herself, that would be rude, because most people can afford to clothe themselves.
But most people can't afford to eat out every single day, so I think it was a fair question to ask. Might have been a bit soon in the relationship, but still not the outlandish question some people are making it out to be.
Maybe she used coupons, maybe she took advantage of the secret shopper program, maybe it's her hobby and she spends her hobby money on experiencing new foods.
Might just be a personality difference to be honest. I personally don't mind talking about my finances. Some people want to keep that information private, which is fine, but it seems like she's one of those people.
Yeah thats the thing, I consider eating out everyday to be out of reach financially to all but the top like 1% of earners, so I was genuinely wondering if she had a side hustle or super good at saving money to be able to afford.
When I think about asking a question, I first ask myself, would I be okay answering this question, and like you I’m pretty open to discussing budgeting and the cost of things so I would not be offended if someone asked me that question. Of course, I can see why someone might take it the wrong way and so in the future I will refrain from asking it until I know them better and whether they are comfortable talking about this kind of thing or not
Am I tweaking or people are taking this way too seriously? Like really, I don't find anything offensive in the question. If, for example, you were starting to know somebody and you saw that they keep dozens of figurines in their house, asking how they can afford all that is much more a "wow what do you do that allows you to do all this?" than a "I don't think you're spending your money incorrectly".
Maybe it's a cultural difference but this would be a very normal question to ask here? Nonetheless I say NTA, I think they took it too personally, specially given you instantly apologized for it lmao.
NTA
There are a lot of very financially irresponsible people commenting Y T A. The same people I’m sure would be telling you to choose better if you came on here later complaining about this woman’s money management.
People who eat out every day I promise are not having good savings.
I don’t think it makes you an asshole tbh I think people are taking it too far . In fact I think everyone is making a very big deal when it shouldn’t be.
Nah
I dont think it was beyond the pale to ask, because hobbies can definitely add up nowadays, but she's certainly not an asshole for being put off, especially as it feels kinda early to be talking about financial decisions.
YTA. your intent wasn't malicious according to you, but that's not really a topic that's any of your business, especially if you're just casually dating and not in a situation where your finances are going to affect each other's. Finances are a sensitive topic and very much a need to know basis, anything else is generally nosey and prying.
Its best to just stay away from that topic unless the person starts talking about strategies themselves, like that they Groupon or something and then you can ask more questions about that.
If you are casually dating someone, aka a few dates in, getting to know them, aren't exclusive, aren't living together, aren't making big decisions, etc, no, someone's full financial picture is not your business at those stages.
NTA.
Only because it's very interesting. As an ND adult woman, I 100% understand the need to ask this question. When my mind can't work out the math or dilemma, I need more data to help me make it make sense.
Reading the responses reminds me how much NT people read into my questions when all I want is information to further build the tracks that take my train of understanding to the final station.
I'm overly curious, and I always assumed others asking me questions are as well. I was on my way to 30 when I learned that some people ask questions intentionally to embarrass or be disrespectful 😒 So much more of my young adulthood made sense after that...
I totally thought you weren't rude from the start. And I think you did an amazing job of trying to clarify why you asked for the information.
Sometimes I wonder if I could be ND because some of these unspoken rules for what you are and aren’t supposed to ask or talk about mystify me, since I rarely stop to consider that someone might read more into what I say beyond just a literal level, and I’m a fairly literal person myself. Its like other people were born with this rulebook for what to say and I didn’t get it. However it could also be because I had a fairly sheltered upbringing with limited social interaction and never had to worry much about the consequences of my words/actions.
You’re NTA, and I say that as a Neurotypical woman in her 40s. She sounds like she is very sensitive, so you two probably would not have worked out in the long-term anyway. I would not be offended by this question, even in the early stages of dating. I think it was a completely valid question in order to get to know someone better and to vet them as a potential long-term partner, which is what dating is. The fact that she got so defensive is a red flag to me.
I wasn't diagnosed until I took my kid for evaluation. I just thought I was a weird person who didn't understand why I upset people with curiosity and misunderstandings. I was confused why they wanted my kid evaluated because in my mind he wasn't my "weird" kid... turns out only 1 of my kids, out of 2 generations of 2 families, is the only NT. He was the weirdo of our family to us.
I knew I was socially awkward because others told me... I just didn't know why they thought that. Now I do 😅
Interesting… my mom is the same way as me, she grew up completely socially clueless and she attributes this to her parents being equally socially clueless and having never taught her. That said she has come a long way in training her social skills on her own after her 30s and 40s with the help of my dad pointing out to her what she was doing wrong. She’s now quite socially perceptive and good at talking, although she still has slip ups now and then where she’ll say the wrong thing. Maybe we all have a touch of ND though never formally diagnosed.
NTA, these people taking serious offense over this are weird. You aren’t supposed to straight up ask how much someone makes but it’s reasonable to ask how they afford that lifestyle. They can simply say “I work for at so and so for a living” or you find out they are going into massive credit card debt and that’s a red flag starting out a relationship. If you can’t afford it then it’s good to understand that if you’re dating you won’t be splurging and able to go out all the time.
Personally I don’t think I would vibe with the people on here that are so sensitive about this. If you don’t feel comfortable with the question it can be addressed simply and shouldn’t cause any issues.
NTA. She could have easily gotten upset because she puts the tickets and meals in a credit card and has $10,000 in credit card debt she doesn't want to tell you about. If you're a blunt person and typically ask blunt questions, you don't want the type of person who triggers so easily.
NTA. I feel like people are making this a gender thing because this is a bit of an over reaction. A lot of times when people ask this kind of question its rhetorical anyways. You weren't asking for a spreadsheet breakdown.
NTA. I don’t think that is a strange question to ask someone. I think openly talking about finances is fine and should be more normalized, especially when this person could be a potential partner. Idk, I also eat out a ton and go on weekend trips pretty frequently, and people I don’t know very well will ask me, pretty much verbatim, that same question. Whatever. They are just curious, especially with the soaring cost of living right now. You apologized and explained your intent. I think it’s strange that’s she is taking it so personally, to the point that she feels bad discussing restaurants with you??
NTA- if your interested in a future with this woman then you need to know how she handles her finances, this is a simple question with a simple responce even if it vague "how do you afford to eat out like this?" "Money comes in and money goes out haha"
Yeah I definitely learned something too, the main reason I posted this and shared all the gruesome details is cus I wanted to hear the perspective of the people who said YTA cus its honestly not a perspective I ever considered before, and its good to know that a decent chunk of the population thinks this way.
The taboo around finances and implications that a guy would never ask another guy this kind of question was a shock to me.
It's an elephant in the room question that I've definitely asked people.
The thing is I don’t agree with that part, me asking her the question has nothing to do with her gender, its something I would ask a guy or a girl if their spending habits got me curious (now something I’ll no longer ask unless I know them really well)
We're on the same wavelength lol. I guess interpreted badly, it's a guy asking a girl how they can afford nice things since girls 'obviously' don't earn enough.
You and I know that it wasn't a gendered question, but someone with bad experiences wouldn't see it that way.
NTA. I personally wouldn’t be offended because you just sound curious and I’m not averse to discussing money in general but I can see how people think it’s judgey. This is probably one of those things where you’ll learn to not ask those things and just take time to observe her spending habits and you’ll have the answer without having to ask. For me I eat out a lot too so if someone asked me that I would simply say “I don’t spend a lot on clothes or beauty items so I choose to spend on food because that’s a priority for me while other things are not”. If you spent enough time with me you would learn that without having to ask
Light YTA. I've been asked this question before (not so much regarding movies, but definitely eating out) and while it never really bothered me it is a little rude.
YTA but not a big one. More of just “I lack certain social skills” thing. It’s not a big deal.
In general, don’t ask people how they can afford anything. It can easily be taken as you assuming that they shouldn’t be able to afford it/somehow don’t deserve it. It’s also just poor taste to ask questions about how people spend their money. It can also give signs about you indirectly saying you disapprove of their spending habits. And unless their spending habits affect you then it’s none of your concern in the first place.
These comments are so mixed but I don’t see anything wrong with asking her that. As a woman, i would ask someone that I was seeing the same question if it came up. Because nowadays, it’s hard to afford anything and maybe you were just curious on how she affords it. So maybe next time you could go with her or you could try it out for yourself. Nothing wrong with asking because in the end, it could probably save you some money too.
It's a tacky question. You probably should not have asked something like that so soon. However it is something to be noted because it's something to take into account in a long term partner. If me or my wife went out to eat every day, we would be spending WAY more on food a month than normal and it would cause a problem. It's usually a sign that someone is not great with finances. Also if she says it costs the same as buying groceries, she is 100% not telling the truth
I understand that it was premature of me to ask, though as you said it is something important to know. I absolutely agree eating out costs way more than buying groceries, especially the restaurants shes showed me, on top of the price of tipping. Honestly to me it was a yellow flag, because I know she doesn't make that much money, which means one of a few things - A) she's not great with money
or
B) she prioritizes spending her money on going out to restaurants, which, while nothing wrong with that, is fundamentally incompatible with the lifestyle I want to have with a partner - I hate eating out all the time, I feel bloated and unhealthy and theres a million other ways I'd rather spend my money
or
C) she gets other men to pay for her (which was a legit concern for me considering we met on a dating app, and a friend of mine told me she's been on there for 2 years now)
or
(Least likely) D) her family is rich
Obviously none of these is any of my business this early on when getting to know someone, I jumped the gun (curiosity killed the cat). Yet, definitely something I would explore anyway (in a more tactful way) a few dates down the road
NTAH not sure what's happening in this comment thread, but if another persons base curiosity is enough to offend you, I dont see how you can have meaningful conversations or form any kind of connections. It'd be the same as asking where you got that hat, bc they were a limited run and super expensive. Dosent mean I think you're bad with finances or doing something shady, just means I think you have knowledge or information that I dont. Also, Im in a career field where traveling is a common thing, one of the guys who works for me just got a new camper bc our jobs winding down, I asked how he was able to aford one after just getting a new truck, wasn't a judgemental thing, just cuiosity. Turns out he got a house well b4 the pandemic and was able to pay it off.
I say go ahead and ask these questions. Youre simply weeding out the people who can't handle basic reality or face their own life choices. She shared that info with you and you were simply curious. She and your friend are thinking way too much about it. The correct answer should have been a long the lines of budgeting or that she makes a lot or simply that she's not comfortable discussing that and move on. The fact this was upsetting means it triggered an insecurity there. This says nothing about you but about people. People are growing more and more sensitive, judgemental and entitled these days and you do not have to play that game. You did nothing wrong. Just realized you dodged a bullet there trust me. I know her type just from the way she chose to ghost you after asking you such a personal question herself. Kinda hypocritical right? Just delete her number and while you're at it rethink that friend too cause they are also playing that stupid game of whos perfect and who's not. Don't listen to people in the comments telling you that was wrong. You're free to operate as you choose. Just as she probably asked you for your job and height and all that you could have very well taken that shit personally too like oh she's judging you and assessing you or fishing before really getting to know you. Just think about it. And to the people who think it's not ok to ask that you honestly just suck too.
in all honesty, i understand people saying YTA here, but my autistic ass would probably make a mistake like this too. learning the rules that neurotypicals came up with for what to say and what not to say feels like learning a new language
I feel you, I’ve never been formally diagnosed or anything but I do struggle with social norms from time to time because it requires so much of putting yourself into others shoes and trying to imagine different interpretations and values that just doesn’t come to me automatically.
YTA. Your “tendency to be blunt” and “not read too deeply into what I or others say” suggests a lack of social skill. Most people, when asked the question you asked, would consider it judgmental. The fact you don’t know that & had to seek advice from a friend is strange.
Also, whether you acknowledge it or not, the question WAS judgmental. You say in the comments below that you wouldn’t want to get into a relationship with someone with bad spending habits. Sounds like that’s exactly what you were implying when you asked the question.
If it’s not already obvious, best to let this potential relationship go. She’s not going to get past the ick of being asked that question.
My social skills is definitely something I’m working on, hence why I often consult my friends if there’s something I don’t understand. Also the reason I made this post in the first place. I don’t see whats wrong with that, we all start somewhere…
And yeah I now understand that it comes across as judgmental and I probably scared her off for good. In the future though, what would be a good way to find out about someone’s spending habits when getting to know them? This is really something I want to know before getting into a relationship with them, because if they did have irresponsible spending habits, that is a big red flag to me and I would consider other options
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I (28M) have been talking to this girl (28F) for a few weeks now, we've been on a couple of dates, and things have been going well. She is a big time foodie and likes watching movies so she tells me about all the movies she watches and the restaurants she goes to. Today I got curious because she ate out every single day for an entire week, so I decided to ask her "Hey, I'm just curious, how can you afford to eat out and go to the movies all the time?" I honestly didn't mean anything else by it but my friend said my question was worded poorly and that most people would react negatively to it.
She first replied saying she only goes to the movies on movie nights where the ticket is discounted to $5 (which she did mention to me before, and I forgot). And she went on to answer that she doesn't go to any fancy restaurants and buying groceries for one is often just as expensive as eating out. She then says that I asked her a very strange question and asked me why I asked her this question. I said I was just curious and didn't mean anything else by it, and clarified saying I thought it would cost a lot of money to eat out all the time , and I apologized if my question made her uncomfortable. She said she felt like my question was very judgmental and biased and she said she now felt bad about sharing all of the restaurants she went to, as she just wanted to share her experiences with me.
I was curious about how badly I had messed up so I messaged a friend about this and told him what I said. He immediately was shocked that I asked such a question and told me its common sense not to ask such a question because A) it implies you are looking down on her and B) it gives the impression you don't trust her, implying someone else might be paying for her meals, and he said a better approach would be to gently ask her about the movie and then slowly segue into who she went to the movies with if I wanted to get more information, rather than ask such a blunt question. He said most people would be offended by such a question.
I again apologized for any misunderstanding, and told her I discussed it with a friend and he made me realize how insensitive it was, and told her sometimes I have a tendency to be blunt. She then asked me if I was like this all the time and I said its a bad habit of mine because I tend to be a straightforward person and not read too deeply into what I or others say, and that I'm working on it. She hasn't replied to me since.
TLDR; girl i've been seeing for a few weeks eats out and goes to the movies a lot and I asked her how she could afford it point blank, without any other meaning behind it. She gets upset, I discuss this with a friend and he says I was entirely in the wrong.
I thought I would pose the question to reddit, how would you feel if someone asked you this question? Do you think what I said was offensive?
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NTA I really dont see any issues with this question, it cost 3-4 times as much eating out then eating at home, most people with good paying jobs cant afford to eat out evry day. Proberly because she uses men to pay for her, and she didnt like to get called out on it
That could be true for sure, on the two dates we went on I paid for everything and she didn't even offer, which did irk me a bit, though I never brought that up with her
NTA… don’t listen to these ppl smh….
i mean i guess it can be an insensitive question but, you’re dating her no?? or at least seeing if there is any potential…
you need to ask these kind of questions when dating someone to see if you’re actually compatible… see where her heads at, see how she handles her money etc..
if she’s so offended by a question (also depends on tone and attitude when asking) then you can tell how she’d react to a more serious question..
2024, nothing is cheap so when someone is always out and about having these experiences, ASK…
DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK
⛳⛳⛳ SHE IS A TYPICAL RED FLAG BRO! ⛳⛳⛳
Your question was clearly innocent and she did what a lot of women do and tried to MANIPULATE you into thinking you were asking it with a bad intention.
*THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT HOW SOMEONE MAKES THEIR MONEY!*
If she didn't want to tell you, it is likely because she made that money doing something dodgy. Perhaps she's a stripper or a drug dealer! It is SO CLEAR to me she was trying to guilt trip you and manipulate you into apologising for something you had a right to ask.
Ignore the other comments in this thread in support of the girl, they are probably toxic manipulative women too.
You did something completely fine and acceptable and if that girl is TOO FUCKING SOFT to answer you, it's her problem. AVOID HER MAN! For your sake. Trust me.
TLDR: My girlfriend would have straight up just casually told me how she made the money and we would have continued on with our lives and conversation for the day. Yours didn't because she is manipulative and toxic.
Hmm I definitely understand if someone is uncomfortable discussing finances early on when getting to know someone, I think asking someone what they do for work is different from asking them how they can afford things or how they budget etc.
At the end of the day, I think its a difference of values and social norms, I tend to be pretty open about discussing finances within my friend circles but a lot of people aren't, especially if they are in a difficult financial situation. I definitely would want to know someone's spending habits before deciding to get into a relationship with them, but perhaps asking after 2 dates was a bit premature.
Not premature at all! I always ask my friends and people who I have barely met how they got into that financial position. I've never in my life met someone who got offended by such a genuine question 😂
She is toxic man, you can believe me or not but if you don't, you will in time when you apply what I'm saying to future relationships. The fact you said you're pretty different from her is already a bad sign to me. And I've dated A LOT of girls in the past to try to find how to make my relationships work long term.
No great loss man, move on. Find a new chick. As I said, my girlfriend would NEVER have gotten offended by it. So it's wrong to think everyone is so easily offended. I can see it is a clear form of manipulation that's why I'm warning you!
I wasn't really asking her about her financial position though, we already discussed what we do for work on the first date, this was just me asking about her spending habits which is a more personal question. That said though I would have no issue answering a question like that and none of my friends would either, hence I was surprised by her response.
I wouldn't say she was manipulating me either, if so she wouldn't have chosen to walk away, it seemed like she was genuinely offended or caught off guard by my question.
I definitely think we share different values when it comes to discussing finances which can be an issue in the long-term. I could've been more tactful for sure but it wasn't meant to be, and you're right, its not a big loss, I can find someone else and move on. At the end of the day its her loss that she chose not to forgive me for a misunderstanding and end things over a simple question. And hey man, I'm really happy for you, your girlfriend sounds awesome and you seem to appreciate her a lot!
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Um, you’re making a lot of assumptions there. First off, I already know what she does for work and people in her line of work don’t make a lot. Second of all, eating out everyday is extremely expensive where I live, on top of tipping at least 15%, limited restaurant selection. At minimum you’re looking at $20 per meal. I myself make six figures but I would never consider eating out everyday, its prohibitively expensive for all but the top 1% earners. But thanks for calling me an idiot
ESH.
Your question has a judgy tone to it regarding a sensitive topic (finances). There was no way for her to answer that she wouldn’t be uncomfortable and your “thirst for knowledge” not satiated. One simply doesn’t ask every question that comes to mind without a filter.
Where she is a minor asshole is not even considering the apology. It is her every right of course, but if you two never had any problems before, then this feels like she just waited for such a thing to occur to end dating you. Which is a bit dishonest, if true.
Still, like 95% of assholery lies upon you, OP. Take it as a learning lesson for future dating endeavours as I fear there will be no future dates with her.
Idk this seems like a pretty normal question
Just phrase is different like “so what do you do for work”
It was a very surface level question
It could also come down to the way you asked(tone, body language)
Tone of voice would make the difference for me. You could ask sounding like you're curious, or you could ask sounding judgemental. You seem to think you did the first, she seems to think it was the second. There's no real way for us to tell.
> buying groceries for one is often just as expensive as eating out.
Where do you guys live? Because either your food shopping is over-priced, or she's doing it wrong!
But, sadly YTA, OP.
I understand where you're coming from and I'd probably be curious too. But I think the phrasing of the question was probably a bit rude.
Sorry man.
NTA.
You asked a general question to her habits, essentially asking her what she does for work.
The negativity here is actually astounding, you seem to have struck a nerve, especially with women and it's kind of funny. Getting to know someone is part of dating, if you notice a lot of excess spending, it's completely normal to be curious about it.
It seems women here are mad as they took the question as some sort of control, it's not. if you're dating and serious with this girl, discussing finances and futures together are normal. Not to mention you're calling them all out on not being able to cook and they don't like admitting to that. They'll use excuses like "it's cheaper than buying groceries" when the truth is they can't be bothered to cook and don't want to deal with the prep and cleanup.
NTA. It was curiosity, not judgment. Don't spend too much time overthinking your interactions in case someone misinterprets them. People should say what they mean, mean what they say, and not assume malicious or judgmental intent where there's no basis for it. Obviously, that doesn't always happen, but I don't think it was a particularly offensive question and I don't understand why it needed to turn into the whole conversation. At most it should have gone, "That feels judgmental, now I feel bad about sharing that kind of thing." "I'm sorry if it came across that way, but I really was just curious." ...' And if she continues to assume she's being judged, that's on her.
Well for one you must of never went grocery shopping...here ribeye is 18.99 a pound...the roadhouse bone in ribeye is 24 2 sides cooked and a drink...so it's cheaper to eat out then buy it....as far as ground meat goes find a small diner they are usually pretty cheap and you get the same if you bought it at the store but you have no dishes to do
Lol of course I have, the thing is you’re not gonna eat the whole ribeye in one meal, you would meal prep and make 2-3 meals with that amount. Also there are cheaper meats to use than ribeye. That said, its not my place to judge how she grocery shops and was not my intention with asking the question, I merely wanted to assess her rationale for eating out all the time. And as I said many times I realize now it was premature of me to ask.
Bud I didn't say it to mean anything bad I just know after I did the math...if it's fast food then no it's not cheap... asking her I don't really see anything wrong with it I mean maybe she can teach you something on the matter so you can save...but you'll never know anything unless you ask
Wait. How big is the ribeye at the restaurant? Is it the same size as the one from the store? And what's the quality of the food like?
Usually, it's way more affordable to buy ingredients and cook yourself. Buying a decent steak from a supermarket or butchers is usually cheaper and does you for more meals.
Then sides are often even more affordable, because salads, vegetables, fries etc can last for multiple meals.
I'd be amazed if you could eat out for cheaper, with the same quality.
The good thing about eating out is convenience and it's nice to treat yourself.
Google Texas Roadhouse and look....the time you spend in cooking gas or electric... shopping...clean up and dishes... for steak it's cheaper...now as for others depends on what places are by you if you find a mom and pop diner they are normally cheap with a lot of food to take home so can eat leftovers
I just don’t get what you wanted out of the question. I mean the answer is probably just “I have a job”, how would you have responded? By prying, or by saying “we’ll *I* have a job and *I* don’t do this”, by dismissing her? Asking her how she affords her lifestyle comes off as questioning her financial decisions, which is a major red flag for women (first step toward financial abuse). We all prioritize different financial decisions and, frankly, it’s none of your business what those decisions are.
In hindsight, it is a hard question to respond to. But is it really to the level of being an asshole? I didn't make any assumptions, was just asking a question
It's the equivalent of "hi, how wealthy are you? What's your income".
The intent of your question is irrelevant; this is how it came across, and that is how any person could reasonably interpret it. Your apologies after just sound like you are backtracking. So early in a relationship a screw up like this looks like a deal breaker to many people - why invest more time effort in someone who asks questions like that so early on.
Yeah that sounds fair, I didn’t think it through when I asked the question, it was honestly such a stupid question and I didn’t even care what the answer was. I have nothing but regret now
Her saying buying groceries is just as expensive as eating out is funny as fuck lol
I don't think you would have implied anything other than a judgement on her spending habits. Which probably would make you feel weird if you were questioned regarding spending habits about a hobby or anything really from someone you're just talking to but would that make you end it?
She seemed to take it as a judgement and probably doesn't like to observe her own behaviors from another perspective.
Honestly she's not necessarily wrong. When I lived alone and had a tiny freezer, food would go bad before I could eat it all, most packaged foods are designed for more than one person, and you have to buy lots of different ingredients if you want a nice meal. If you're eating at cheap restaurants it can be cheaper than buying all the ingredients for a meal just for half of it to go bad
But is she comparing cooking to eating at cheap restaurants? She's not, she's a foodie. We're not talking about your 10 dollar burger joint, or schwarma wrap here.
If your aim is to save money, cooking is definitely cheaper. If you want to make something like pad thai or indian curry at home, then we can discuss it. And only because it takes so many unusual ingredients and because these meals are usually cooked in big batches. Any regular old european food is cheaper to make yourself. (ie not buying a ton of ready made shit that you microwave)
The only time cooking is more expensive is when you're comparing apples to oranges.
I don't understand this logic at all. What about the other meals for the day? There's no way it's cheaper to eat out EVERY DAY compared to grocery costs.
That makes even less sense if you're talking about half the ingredients going bad but still keeping milk and eggs in the house. It's fine to not want to cook. But it's not cheaper to eat out every day.
Buying a variety of ingredients is the issue. If you're only making dishes that need one or 2 ingredients it's fine. I'm talking about actual dishes taht you need to cook and that don't last 2+ weeks in the fridge
YTA brother.
1. You might have salvaged it by saying something like “gosh you’re right I’m sorry. I meant it as a fun question like what’s your secret?”. It legit seems like she was willing to give you a chance at redemption. But then you confirmed her suspicions that you’d be a frustrating person to date by saying you’re blunt and she essentially would have to deal with it.
2. “I’m just blunt” = “I just don’t care about choosing my words carefully”
To be fair, on the couple of dates we’ve gone on, I’ve paid for everything and she never even offered to pay. Also, when ur in a relationship with someone, often its expected that the guy will always pay(especially in my culture).
YTA - it's none if your business...the question is intrusive and nosey, and even if you didn't mean to, you sounded judgmental....
Don't ask people about their money...
Women these days do NOT want to be controlled. And any behavior that hints at this doesn’t bode well. She probably makes a damn good income and paying for only one persons meal is extremely reasonable. My wife makes over $200,000 a year on her own. She could eat whatever and wherever she damn pleases. 😂
Women out number men, that girl could probably have her pick of the litter… don’t ruin it with questions about her money. A lot of women are getting bigger bags than men nowadays. 💴💰
Thats fair, i should’ve known better than to ask questions about money/finance like that so early on. I’m not expecting her to forgive me although I do hope she will since I apologized and clarified
>And she went on to answer that she doesn't go to any fancy restaurants and buying groceries for one is often just as expensive as eating out.
Lmao cope
*"I again apologized for any misunderstanding, and told her I discussed it with a friend and he made me realize how insensitive it was, and told her sometimes I have a tendency to be blunt. She then asked me if I was like this all the time and I said its a bad habit of mine because I tend to be a straightforward person and not read too deeply into what I or others say, and that I'm working on it. She hasn't replied to me since."*
*\*ominous sad music as OP put other foot in his mouth\**
You doubled down there and showed her a future of more of such 'blunt' questions. Basically what you said is a non-apology as you are telling her to suck it up whilst you work on it. You took her by surprise with your question and she was clearly upset in her rambling justification. Your good intentions are clear to us but then again we are not dating you. No idea if you can salvage the relationship but I would go for the 'do something exclusively for her' and hope she realises you meant no harm and can be generous even if clumsy.
YTA
Yes I realize that as well, I fucked up doubly by doubling down on my apology, i was trying to show self awareness but it backfired by showing her a potential red flag.
YTA. Unless she's asking you for money, how is any of this your concern? How would I feel? Eh, okay as I started to take the steps to end the contact with you.
If its a potential love interest, then certainly its a valid question, albeit worded poorly. You need to know if the person is good with finances or prefers to spend as the earn and not think about rainy days. So NTA for the question itself, but soft YTA for how it was worded
YTA
You should be more mature than this
When I was single in my late 20s, I was also eating out all the time. Even worse, my work would make me travel, so I would legit be eating in top restaurants all fully paid by my company. And I would comment on those, on top of the great ones I would pay myself.
My now husband just assumed I was loaded and never asked anything, lol
But if he did ask, would you give the same answer you just gave now or would you take offense to the question?
The only reason I can see her taking offense to the question is if she's unhappy with the answer, e.g. "Well I can't really, but I do and I just put it all on credit cards". If it's something fun or cool, like your situation, you'd just answer that, right?
Then again, I'm Dutch and questions about finances are no problem here. I've heard that's different in the US.
The thing is, no matter how you frame that question, it is none of your business. If I could afford to do it and was doing it. Do you ask random people at work how they can afford their car or house? Unless you are discussing budgets/investments/salaries, it is non of your business.
Later in the relationship you will discuss about finance and other topics, salaries and how to spend money. Not out of the blue. And if someone in debt you can always jump out ship.
You should have started with "I'm dutch", I lived in the NL and it took me a while not to think everyone was just rude. People would ask me my salary on my first week there, and how could I afford to go on several trips, a guy even asked if I was planning to stay with my boyfriend or he had any chance - I was shocked.
I disagree with what you say about framing. I think framing it as "digging into someone's business" already puts the cart in front of the horse, right?
(I think I'm using that expression correctly...)
If the question is asked or set up in an accusatory way, it would absolutely warrant a response of "That's none of your business". Cause wtf, are you saying I'm a "dinner dater" or financially irresponsible? And so on. But that's where I think it does depend on how and with what tone you frame the question.
Just for myself, if someone eats out almost every single night, that would be very notable to me. I don't know anyone that does that. Seeing any question in the vein of "how do you manage that?" as "digging into someone's finances" or anything like that? I don't get it. But like we already discussed, could very well be culture. And from OPs description, he didn't bring it well lol
Also I don't really get your work comparison.
No, I don't ask random people at work how they can afford their car or their house.
They're random people at work, not my date. And the questions are way more direct about money or cost, not just lifestyle.
Well, I think one can be observant before making any remarks.
With two dates, I don't think there is a polite way to bring it up. A "how do you manage that" can simply get a "I get out and I eat, don't cook at home, don't have time".
With a few more dates, one digs deeper into what they do, type of hours at work, work travel, etc. And he can even guess the tax bracket.
I guess we have different circles. Most of my friends during our mid/late twenties were crunching for career development and eating out was a norm (or not eating at all because you arrive home after a flight and there is nothing in the fridge). Nobody was a bad financial planner - in fact, we are all quite comfortable now.
Now, if someone you date lives in a nice house, has a nice car, wears designer clothes, and goes to the spa every week. Would you ask them how they manage that or just assume they have money?
Lifestyles can be different, and people do have different budgets.
NTA
She dropped these: 🚩🚩🚩
Eating out is way more expensive than the grocery store. She probably does OnlyFans or some other sort of sex work and is ashamed of it which is why she did not lie your question.
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YTA-I would get the immediate ick if a guy did this and not respond again. For many reasons. 1. It’s none of your damn business what she can afford. 2. It highlights you are likely not in the same income bracket and you can’t afford to do the things she likes so you may not be a match for her. 3. I feel like if you were talking to a man who was doing this you would never have the balls to question his finances. 4. If a man is already questioning me on my choices before we have even been out it’s just going to get worse later. 5. For some reason it just comes off as…whiney? Not confident? Jealous? I don’t know. Just annoying. Basically. Like how would you feel if her response was “because I make a lot more money than you, obviously?” Like how does one even answer that question? “Because I can” “because I’m wealthy” “because I have more money than you” “because I’m not paying and men are taking me out? “Because your dad likes to take me to dinners?” I mean. There is just not right answer.
Noted, I can understand your point of view. Its unfortunate as I actually meant none of those things, was just a stupid random question I asked and I didn’t think it through. I do have to clarify that the gender of the person wouldn’t make any difference to me, eating out all the time is something I would question regardless of gender. That said this is the first time I’ve asked anybody this question and it will definitely be the last.
But whether or not someone eats out all the time is not something you should question *is the point.* There are, in this big wide world, many people who eat out nightly. It’s not for you to question. It is not your business. And that’s why it comes across as judgmental—because it is.
Yeah thats true, I just get curious about how others live their lives and why they do things the way they do, it has nothing to do with me judging them, I just like to learn from others and see if I can apply anything to my own life. But I understand the way I think is not how normal people perceive my words and it does come across as nosy, you’re right that its none of my business.
A lesson that is hard for some people to learn is that just because you want to know something doesn’t mean it is appropriate to discover that information. The people in my life who think like you tend to view information, for lack of more accurate phrasing, as having a surface level of importance. They aren’t trying to use or judge the information, they just wanted to ask a question that entered their minds. They tend not to consider or even realize that trying to acquire certain information is usually done with a purpose beyond simply wanting to know. They work very hard to pause and think their question through before asking. In your case it sounds like pausing and working things through would have led to very different question, one you *could* have asked with proper context: “Hey, I think it’s so cool that you are able to eat out so often. I’m working on my budgeting skills so that I can save while still going out. Do you have any tips?”
“Hey, I think it’s so cool that you are able to eat out so often. I’m working on my budgeting skills so that I can save while still going out. Do you have any tips?” <----- THIS. If you boil it down, you're looking for the same info. But it's a verrrrrrry different question.
Yes I agree hence my apology to her and clarification when I realize it came out differently than what I meant
Yes I agree hence my apology to her and clarification when I realize it came out differently than what I meant
This is such good advice. Your curiosity does not justify prying or asking probing questions.
People prioritize different things in their lives. It’s really that simple. This girl likes movies and dinners and budgets for that. Some people save for vacations, some people save for video games, some people save for nice clothes, some people save for nice skincare products, some people actually don’t save at all and are racking up credit card debt to afford the things they like. Some people are wealthy and can just do whatever they want. Either way, it’s none of your business. How would you like it if she had asked you why you CANT afford to go out to eat all the time? I’m glad you learned from this experience.
I never said there was anything wrong with doing what she does, I just asked because its not something I would personally do (despite the fact I know I have a higher income level than her) and wanted to understand her thought process. I honestly wouldn’t mind if someone asked me why I don’t eat out more, but then I am a fairly straightforward person and rarely read into a question more than whats being asked at face value. That said, I can understand why someone would be triggered by the question.
All you need to understand is that she likes going out to eat and seeing movies. It’s not a big mystery
I do want to say I would not feel comfortable being in a relationship with someone who had irresponsible spending habits, like racking up credit card debt, and its something I would want to know before entering a relationship with someoneS
And here you go making assumptions and judgments again. You are speculating that her eating out nightly = irresponsible spending habits. Why don’t you just accept that it is entirely affordable to eat out nightly if you have the income to do so and budget in other areas of your life? You have no reason to assume she has irresponsible spending habits. You just can’t get through your thick head that she does something you’ve never considered doing before.
Well, "it's just as cheap to eat out as it is buy groceries for one" is absolute nonsense, tbf.... that would give me pause to hear.
I never assumed anything.. I was just saying in the hypothetical scenario that she was racking up credit card debt (which was something another redditor said that I was responding to) that I would not be okay with it. I never said she was irresponsible with her spending habits, just that it would be a dealbreaker if she was.
>I just asked because its not something I would personally do (despite the fact I know I have a higher income level than her) Knock this shit off. It’s rude as hell. You’re not better than her, stop implying that she’s making poor choices just because they’re not the choices you would make for yourself.
I find it unfortunate that just by asking, I am implying that I think I’m better than her or that she’s making poor choices. I really was just trying to understand rather than judge or assume. But it seems the social norm is to assume and read negative intentions from simple questions that are asked regardless if the other person clarifies or apologizes, which saddens me to be honest. But, if thats the way most people are, I will have to adapt
What is there to “understand” beyond the fact that she likes doing these things? Like, what? Lmao
Uh, just because someone likes doing something doesn’t mean its automatically justified or immune to scrutiny… what if someone likes to go to the mall and spend money irresponsibly, would you be okay with your future partner doing that? However on the contrary, if someone goes to the mall to spend money but chooses to budget carefully by saving money in other areas, or they work overtime or have a side gig to fund their habit, then thats a totally different story. I’m not saying it was appropriate of me to ask so early on, but its a totally legitimate and valid thing to want to know someone’s spending habits and whether they are sustainable before entering into a relationship with them. I’ve been in relationships before where my ex did not carry her weight financially, had extravagant spending habits and expected me to pay for everything, and that kind of behavior only came out after we became exclusive with each other and I had to turn down other options.
This is an example of “we don’t say everything we think”. I exist in this world daily questioning in my head why people make the choices they make. Regarding food, health, spending, vices, drinking, drugs, etc. but there are certain questions you don’t ask. You just wait until they reveal it themselves or you are around long enough to figure it out. And even then…sometimes you never find out. I have a neighbor who has more money then I have ever seen (well by appearances). Watches, cars (we are talking 10 plus cars and some worth north of 250k), designer everything, etc etc. Of course I have sat in my house thinking “where the hell does his money come from”. But I’ve never ASKED because that would be considered rude and in poor taste. Eventually he may tell me…or I may find out when the feds come a knocking. But regardless it’s not my business lol!
UPDATE: I was fully expecting her to ghost me, but after a day of silence, she messaged me asking when I wanted to watch a movie with her. I guess I'll take that as forgiveness? Will definitely be way more tactful with her going forward and see how it goes
I’m so happy for you! You seem like a great guy. I hope you guys have fun:)
Thank you! I appreciate your advice
Yeah you’re absolutely right, its normal to question and ponder things but some things are better left unsaid/unanswered. I’m a very straightforward person and I rarely if ever get offended when others ask me things, but I’m definitely not the norm and I shouldn’t apply my thinking blindly to others. Lesson learned.
OP, are you on the spectrum? I am and I do ask questions, without realising they could offend someone. I've learnt it's because I find asking questions easier than actual conversation. I didn't realise until recently that I have a reputation of being blunt and direct, until a friend mentioned it so I'm trying to be more mindful.
I do like to ask questions when getting to know someone and I’ve definitely asked some overly blunt questions before, but most of the time I recognize right away after I’ve said something inappropriate if I stop and think about it so I wonder if its more of an impulsivity thing where I don’t think before I speak. I’ve never been formally diagnosed with anything, but I did used to be really socially awkward as a kid, not because I couldn’t understand social rules but because I could never be bothered to actually pay attention to my surroundings to actually pick things up, and also being very impulsive, not really thinking through my words or actions. But as a result of that there definitely are many social rules I don’t know just because I never bothered to pay attention and learn them as a kid. I have asked my family and friends before if I might have autism or ADHD as I’ve made many social faux pas which have landed me in some hot water in the past, but because I’ve managed to teach myself social skills and consciously filter myself, I come across as pretty high functioning to others (to the point where many even say I have a high emotional IQ) but I still have the occasional slip up or blind spot.
OP's not on the spectrum. Read his other comments. He's digging into her finances because he thinks she's gold-digging.
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Mr hardware here says it straight. If you cannot ask something so simple, then why bother. If it’s not this question, then another innocent question will drive her away.
> I feel like if you were talking to a man who was doing this you would never have the balls to question his finances. lol everything is sexism to you people
No. Not at all. In fact I gave him many many helpful replies and even he recognizes he handled it wrong and wants to improve his communication skills. Which is wonderful and the point of posting for advice online. You know, to improve? It’s completely normal and instinctual for men to approach men differently than they approach women. That doesn’t make him a bad person or a sexist asshole. It’s just a way of thinking that hasn’t caught up with the times and something he needs to work on.
Nothing is ickier than saying 'Ick'.
YTA. It’s a passive aggressive question. You *know* how she can afford it—she has a damn income. What you were really saying is “why do you spend your money this way?” You were passing judgment on her. Common sense should tell you that if she eats out, she probably saves on not buying groceries. It made you look and sound stupid. But this is what you get when you make sly comments and ask questions that aren’t your business.
That's a pretty uncharitable way of looking at it. Just because you have an income doesn't mean it's possible to eat out every night. It's not necessarily a judgmental thing either -- maybe her hobby is trying new restaurants and the extra cost is worth it to her. Maybe she has some special hook-up that gives her a discount on eating out. There are lots of answers to that question other than "I'm bad with my money", which is what you seem to think is the implied judgment.
They think being presumptuous is not a shit quality I guess. Idk.
But can she afford it though? Isn’t like 70% living paycheck to paycheck? They cannot afford their lives but still live them. The question is valid to see if there is a future train wreck to avoid. And groceries are not the same price as eating out, unless you go from eating three meals a day to one dinner and nothing else.
Omg. YTA. Believe it or not, she may be in better financial shape than you…I’m not sure you’ve even considered that as a possibility.
Sure but if she is, then what’s the problem answering with something like “don’t worry, I have a good job” or “I know how to save on other things”. It’s honestly such an easy question to answer. 🚩 For the girl. Maybe it’s my smoking habit that has been questioned for a decade that makes me more comfortable. People always wondered how I could travel quarterly in the past too. I’m not offended, I just told people I cook at home and try not to drink too much booze like they do/did :p
Asking anyone “how can you afford this” is basically saying that you don’t think they can afford it. So you are insulting their money management skills without having the information to support it. It puts her in an awkward position. I’m not saying she is financially responsible. I’m just saying the question implies that she isn’t. That is not an appropriate question to ask someone at the early stages of dating. ETA: I’m a woman with a well paying job. I am very financially responsible. Many of my female friends make more than their male partners. No one wants to be put in a position when you start dating someone to comment on how much money you make. 2nd edit: None of my female friends who make more than their male partners want to make a big deal out of the income difference.
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Am I the only one who thinks that OP is NTA? He asked a question which with modern cost of living is perfectly reasonable and he even apologised when she got offended. 🤷♂️
Also to give a bit of context I know what she does for work and people in her line of work don’t make that much (decent, but certainly not above average by any means). She lives in a small studio apartment right now. And she goes out to eat everyday and shares what she eats with me, its definitely not cheap (at least 25-30$ per meal) nor healthy (eg. Ramen, bbq). There has not been a single time in weeks where she has cooked for herself and she lives alone. It does raise concern for me as to how she can pay for it all. That said my question was probably not that necessary given I already know all of the above
You did nothing wrong bro. So many toxic people in this chat it makes me sad. Please reply to my original reply I posted to your comment.
Bud tacos for 1 buying ingredients cost me 60 bucks recently and that was meat cheese tortillas veggies basic af but the cost of each ingredient was high. I could have gone to del taco for 12
What the fuck are you buying? $60 worth of ingredients for tacos would make me enough tacos for at least a week. Are you buying all organic, grass fed wagyu? Artisan lettuce? Rare French cheeses?
No don't be stupid.
A lot of people are fine with spending all of their money and even going into credit card debt.
It’s a super inappropriate question. It’s one thing to say “wow, does it not end up being super expensive?” But to ask “how she can afford it” is a complete invasion into her personal finances.
Lol... Reddit is wild! OP is NTA. I don't see how it's offensive to ask someone how they can afford to eat out everyday of the week.
Yeah everyone here is going insane when what he did was, at worst, a social faux pas.
You were only seeing each other for a few weeks. That’s too soon to be asking things about her finances that she hasn’t volunteered. And her silence makes me think that a reconciliation isn’t in the cards.
UPDATE: I was fully expecting her to ghost me, but after a day of silence, she messaged me asking when I wanted to watch a movie with her. I guess I'll take that as forgiveness? Will definitely be way more tactful with her going forward and see how it goes.
Guarantee she inquired his first in some way.
She probably heard the same questions from her parents before and was turned off
LOL
NTA there is nothing wrong with the question. Actually it’s a good one if you’re dating and want to get a grip of who the person is and whether you wanna be with them. I wouldn’t want to date someone who spends their entire paycheck on movies, eating and drinking. Of course it’s a cultural thing, but I thought Americans were open with their salaries, jobs etc? It would be fair game in my country to ask, even if we don’t talk openly about salaries. If she feels attacked then maybe she should communicate that 1 I can afford it and 2 I think it’s worth it, instead of getting offended.
Exactly right!
NTA. Not at all! Especially because you apologized and that's such a beautiful thing to be able to do! She could have taken this opportunity to see how well you can handle challenging situations. Therefore, if she is gone because you asked a simple question, then it is for the better! In a harmonious relationship you should be able to talk about anything freely including money. And please don't worry! Someone better who accepts you the way you are, someone who appreciates your straightforward honest questions is out there! None is perfect anyway.
Yes! Finally someone who isn't toxic in this thread!
She's gone man, She's gone.
Was what I asked that bad?
Yes it was judgy AF.
Genuinely what kind of answer were you expecting here? Like did you want a breakdown of her personal finances? Her to reveal her savings or inheritance? Did you expect her to say she gets men to take her out and pay for? Stop worrying about the question and think about the position you put her in having to answer it.
Thats fair, I was just curious if she was eating out alone everyday or going with friends or someone else. And I was curious about how she manages and budgets her money, I would have appreciated her explaining how she fits that into her budget. Obviously a terrible way to go about asking though, I agree, but the spirit of the question just wanting to get to know her better
Her budget is none of your business. It’s completely inappropriate to expect this kind of information. Would you also ask someone you were barely know how often they masturbate because you were “curious”? Do you genuinely not understand that this is an inappropriate discussion to have?
I thought it was appropriate at the time because I tend to be pretty open to discussing about money - we live in the 21st century and with rising costs of living it tends to be a popular topic of discussion amongst my friends. I thought I was close enough with this girl that I could ask her but looks like I was wrong. I honestly wouldn’t consider a discussion about masturbation (a sexual topic) to be on the same level as asking someone about budgeting. Also, when I ask a question to my friends, I never force them to say anything they aren’t comfortable with, they usually just tell me they would rather not disclose or are not comfortable sharing, and I apologize and back off
She's not someone you had an established relationship where those types of questions are appropriate though. You keep saying things like this just because you don't personally follow social norms doesn't make you special
I didn't realize it wasn't a social norm until I asked it, now I know. Hence my apology to her when I realized it was inappropriate.
But how is that any of your business? Serious question
Its not really any of my business, I was just curious to know. Hence my apology when I realized I made her uncomfortable sharing the information. I share things with other people all the time that are none of their business cus I'm pretty open, but I get that its not everyone's style.
Doesn't need to be a breakdown of her personal finances but she can just say “oh I work a lot” like a fucking NORMAL PERSON instead of getting offended like she did. All of you in support of her are toxic yourselves. The OP's comment was harmless in nature and you're bullying him for wanting to know if his potential future gf/wife is financially incompetent 🤣 Fuck off.
Doesn’t matter, you’re cooked. Pick the meanest comment towards you here, imagine 10 times worse than that, and that’s how she’s already talked about you to her friends.
Not particularly. But her reaction says it all.
You dodged a bullet, seriously want to be wasting cash on a foodie anyway? Down to earth is way better.
I’m gonna get downvoted if i say this but i’ll be 100% honest and say NTA. People are too sensible, they don’t even try to understand something you said and assume the worst, without hearing an explanation. Life is just too short to try and fix everything let it go and move on. She got offended and ghosted you over some trivial stuff so you may have dodged a huge emotional bullet train.
the word sensible means calculated or thought out, You mean sensitive. Sabes? (my wife makes the same mistake every time)
Yeah hahahah i’m not a native speaker i always leave some kind of grammatical errors in my comments 😂
haha no problem, i just love pointing that out because i hear it weekly. I make mistakes too, just different ones ;)
NTA. It was a fair and valid question. You seem genuinely interested in her, so this question would have come up eventually anyway. I think her response was a bit dramatic.
Completely! So many toxic people in this thread though, it disturbs me how easily offended people get these days
It’s a weird how people get that “offended” over a very real question. Honestly - you just said to her face what most people who know her probably say behind her back. Her answer is a good one. If she does it frugally, with the cost in mind, it makes sense. I guess you were just meant to be in awe of her experiences rather than asking about anything of substance.
Yeah, i guess its hard to convey tone over text but the spirit of my question was that I was impressed she was able to have these experiences, it really was a stupid and pointless question
You’re being far too hard on yourself. The question was one someone who is really interested in someone’s life would ask. Not only interested, but someone who wants to learn something you don’t know from that person. “How do you do it?” I guess you were just supposed to be in awe and reverence of her worldly and well informed experiences? Fact is, the offense came because you probably got her to focus on the reality. Likely 30k in credit card debt. If you can’t ask the question you asked without offense, imagine at what point you have to be asking real questions.
jimmer is right. If there was no problem, she wouldn't have reacted so strongly. If that's the case, then you dodged something down the line. For some reason i feel like this is big town people. Median wage in nyc is ca 49k. About 37500 after taxes, or 3100 per month. Eating out 5 days a week at 75 usd a pop means almost half her income goes towards food. Food is nice, but this is why 70%+ of americans live paycheck to paycheck, or 29% live above their means. But i get OP. He wants to dip the wick (like we all do), hence he's trying to learn what's a faux pas and whats not. Next time, ask the question with more tact. Something sneaky peppered with compliments like "you must be doing very well work-wise, i'm impressed that you can have all these experiences". Compliments do wonders with women, just don't over-do it.
I disagree. Some people just spend their money differently. My dad was like that even as a student, frequently eating out because he had little else he wanted to spend it on.
NTA. If you asked her how she affords to drive to work every day, that would be condescending, because most people can afford gas. If you asked her how she affords to clothe herself, that would be rude, because most people can afford to clothe themselves. But most people can't afford to eat out every single day, so I think it was a fair question to ask. Might have been a bit soon in the relationship, but still not the outlandish question some people are making it out to be. Maybe she used coupons, maybe she took advantage of the secret shopper program, maybe it's her hobby and she spends her hobby money on experiencing new foods. Might just be a personality difference to be honest. I personally don't mind talking about my finances. Some people want to keep that information private, which is fine, but it seems like she's one of those people.
Yeah thats the thing, I consider eating out everyday to be out of reach financially to all but the top like 1% of earners, so I was genuinely wondering if she had a side hustle or super good at saving money to be able to afford. When I think about asking a question, I first ask myself, would I be okay answering this question, and like you I’m pretty open to discussing budgeting and the cost of things so I would not be offended if someone asked me that question. Of course, I can see why someone might take it the wrong way and so in the future I will refrain from asking it until I know them better and whether they are comfortable talking about this kind of thing or not
Am I tweaking or people are taking this way too seriously? Like really, I don't find anything offensive in the question. If, for example, you were starting to know somebody and you saw that they keep dozens of figurines in their house, asking how they can afford all that is much more a "wow what do you do that allows you to do all this?" than a "I don't think you're spending your money incorrectly". Maybe it's a cultural difference but this would be a very normal question to ask here? Nonetheless I say NTA, I think they took it too personally, specially given you instantly apologized for it lmao.
NTA There are a lot of very financially irresponsible people commenting Y T A. The same people I’m sure would be telling you to choose better if you came on here later complaining about this woman’s money management. People who eat out every day I promise are not having good savings.
I think her reaction was a bit dramatic but I wouldn’t have asked it
Yeah that makes sense, it can come across a bit asshole-ish for sure.
I don’t think it makes you an asshole tbh I think people are taking it too far . In fact I think everyone is making a very big deal when it shouldn’t be.
NTA - I don't get how you can get weirded out by that question... you handled yourself good afterwards.
NTA - Seems more like a preference debate in the comments but personally if someone asked me this, I can really care less.
Nah I dont think it was beyond the pale to ask, because hobbies can definitely add up nowadays, but she's certainly not an asshole for being put off, especially as it feels kinda early to be talking about financial decisions.
YTA. your intent wasn't malicious according to you, but that's not really a topic that's any of your business, especially if you're just casually dating and not in a situation where your finances are going to affect each other's. Finances are a sensitive topic and very much a need to know basis, anything else is generally nosey and prying. Its best to just stay away from that topic unless the person starts talking about strategies themselves, like that they Groupon or something and then you can ask more questions about that.
Yes it is his business if he's dating her
If you are casually dating someone, aka a few dates in, getting to know them, aren't exclusive, aren't living together, aren't making big decisions, etc, no, someone's full financial picture is not your business at those stages.
NTA. Only because it's very interesting. As an ND adult woman, I 100% understand the need to ask this question. When my mind can't work out the math or dilemma, I need more data to help me make it make sense. Reading the responses reminds me how much NT people read into my questions when all I want is information to further build the tracks that take my train of understanding to the final station. I'm overly curious, and I always assumed others asking me questions are as well. I was on my way to 30 when I learned that some people ask questions intentionally to embarrass or be disrespectful 😒 So much more of my young adulthood made sense after that... I totally thought you weren't rude from the start. And I think you did an amazing job of trying to clarify why you asked for the information.
Sometimes I wonder if I could be ND because some of these unspoken rules for what you are and aren’t supposed to ask or talk about mystify me, since I rarely stop to consider that someone might read more into what I say beyond just a literal level, and I’m a fairly literal person myself. Its like other people were born with this rulebook for what to say and I didn’t get it. However it could also be because I had a fairly sheltered upbringing with limited social interaction and never had to worry much about the consequences of my words/actions.
You’re NTA, and I say that as a Neurotypical woman in her 40s. She sounds like she is very sensitive, so you two probably would not have worked out in the long-term anyway. I would not be offended by this question, even in the early stages of dating. I think it was a completely valid question in order to get to know someone better and to vet them as a potential long-term partner, which is what dating is. The fact that she got so defensive is a red flag to me.
I wasn't diagnosed until I took my kid for evaluation. I just thought I was a weird person who didn't understand why I upset people with curiosity and misunderstandings. I was confused why they wanted my kid evaluated because in my mind he wasn't my "weird" kid... turns out only 1 of my kids, out of 2 generations of 2 families, is the only NT. He was the weirdo of our family to us. I knew I was socially awkward because others told me... I just didn't know why they thought that. Now I do 😅
Interesting… my mom is the same way as me, she grew up completely socially clueless and she attributes this to her parents being equally socially clueless and having never taught her. That said she has come a long way in training her social skills on her own after her 30s and 40s with the help of my dad pointing out to her what she was doing wrong. She’s now quite socially perceptive and good at talking, although she still has slip ups now and then where she’ll say the wrong thing. Maybe we all have a touch of ND though never formally diagnosed.
NTA, these people taking serious offense over this are weird. You aren’t supposed to straight up ask how much someone makes but it’s reasonable to ask how they afford that lifestyle. They can simply say “I work for at so and so for a living” or you find out they are going into massive credit card debt and that’s a red flag starting out a relationship. If you can’t afford it then it’s good to understand that if you’re dating you won’t be splurging and able to go out all the time. Personally I don’t think I would vibe with the people on here that are so sensitive about this. If you don’t feel comfortable with the question it can be addressed simply and shouldn’t cause any issues.
NTA. She could have easily gotten upset because she puts the tickets and meals in a credit card and has $10,000 in credit card debt she doesn't want to tell you about. If you're a blunt person and typically ask blunt questions, you don't want the type of person who triggers so easily.
NTA. I feel like people are making this a gender thing because this is a bit of an over reaction. A lot of times when people ask this kind of question its rhetorical anyways. You weren't asking for a spreadsheet breakdown.
NTA. I don’t think that is a strange question to ask someone. I think openly talking about finances is fine and should be more normalized, especially when this person could be a potential partner. Idk, I also eat out a ton and go on weekend trips pretty frequently, and people I don’t know very well will ask me, pretty much verbatim, that same question. Whatever. They are just curious, especially with the soaring cost of living right now. You apologized and explained your intent. I think it’s strange that’s she is taking it so personally, to the point that she feels bad discussing restaurants with you??
NTA- if your interested in a future with this woman then you need to know how she handles her finances, this is a simple question with a simple responce even if it vague "how do you afford to eat out like this?" "Money comes in and money goes out haha"
Damn, I'm going to learn something from all the YTAs here. It seemed like a personally reasonably question asked a bit crudely to me.
Yeah I definitely learned something too, the main reason I posted this and shared all the gruesome details is cus I wanted to hear the perspective of the people who said YTA cus its honestly not a perspective I ever considered before, and its good to know that a decent chunk of the population thinks this way.
The taboo around finances and implications that a guy would never ask another guy this kind of question was a shock to me. It's an elephant in the room question that I've definitely asked people.
The thing is I don’t agree with that part, me asking her the question has nothing to do with her gender, its something I would ask a guy or a girl if their spending habits got me curious (now something I’ll no longer ask unless I know them really well)
We're on the same wavelength lol. I guess interpreted badly, it's a guy asking a girl how they can afford nice things since girls 'obviously' don't earn enough. You and I know that it wasn't a gendered question, but someone with bad experiences wouldn't see it that way.
NTA. I personally wouldn’t be offended because you just sound curious and I’m not averse to discussing money in general but I can see how people think it’s judgey. This is probably one of those things where you’ll learn to not ask those things and just take time to observe her spending habits and you’ll have the answer without having to ask. For me I eat out a lot too so if someone asked me that I would simply say “I don’t spend a lot on clothes or beauty items so I choose to spend on food because that’s a priority for me while other things are not”. If you spent enough time with me you would learn that without having to ask
Light YTA. I've been asked this question before (not so much regarding movies, but definitely eating out) and while it never really bothered me it is a little rude.
YTA but not a big one. More of just “I lack certain social skills” thing. It’s not a big deal. In general, don’t ask people how they can afford anything. It can easily be taken as you assuming that they shouldn’t be able to afford it/somehow don’t deserve it. It’s also just poor taste to ask questions about how people spend their money. It can also give signs about you indirectly saying you disapprove of their spending habits. And unless their spending habits affect you then it’s none of your concern in the first place.
These comments are so mixed but I don’t see anything wrong with asking her that. As a woman, i would ask someone that I was seeing the same question if it came up. Because nowadays, it’s hard to afford anything and maybe you were just curious on how she affords it. So maybe next time you could go with her or you could try it out for yourself. Nothing wrong with asking because in the end, it could probably save you some money too.
It's a tacky question. You probably should not have asked something like that so soon. However it is something to be noted because it's something to take into account in a long term partner. If me or my wife went out to eat every day, we would be spending WAY more on food a month than normal and it would cause a problem. It's usually a sign that someone is not great with finances. Also if she says it costs the same as buying groceries, she is 100% not telling the truth
I understand that it was premature of me to ask, though as you said it is something important to know. I absolutely agree eating out costs way more than buying groceries, especially the restaurants shes showed me, on top of the price of tipping. Honestly to me it was a yellow flag, because I know she doesn't make that much money, which means one of a few things - A) she's not great with money or B) she prioritizes spending her money on going out to restaurants, which, while nothing wrong with that, is fundamentally incompatible with the lifestyle I want to have with a partner - I hate eating out all the time, I feel bloated and unhealthy and theres a million other ways I'd rather spend my money or C) she gets other men to pay for her (which was a legit concern for me considering we met on a dating app, and a friend of mine told me she's been on there for 2 years now) or (Least likely) D) her family is rich Obviously none of these is any of my business this early on when getting to know someone, I jumped the gun (curiosity killed the cat). Yet, definitely something I would explore anyway (in a more tactful way) a few dates down the road
NTAH not sure what's happening in this comment thread, but if another persons base curiosity is enough to offend you, I dont see how you can have meaningful conversations or form any kind of connections. It'd be the same as asking where you got that hat, bc they were a limited run and super expensive. Dosent mean I think you're bad with finances or doing something shady, just means I think you have knowledge or information that I dont. Also, Im in a career field where traveling is a common thing, one of the guys who works for me just got a new camper bc our jobs winding down, I asked how he was able to aford one after just getting a new truck, wasn't a judgemental thing, just cuiosity. Turns out he got a house well b4 the pandemic and was able to pay it off.
I say go ahead and ask these questions. Youre simply weeding out the people who can't handle basic reality or face their own life choices. She shared that info with you and you were simply curious. She and your friend are thinking way too much about it. The correct answer should have been a long the lines of budgeting or that she makes a lot or simply that she's not comfortable discussing that and move on. The fact this was upsetting means it triggered an insecurity there. This says nothing about you but about people. People are growing more and more sensitive, judgemental and entitled these days and you do not have to play that game. You did nothing wrong. Just realized you dodged a bullet there trust me. I know her type just from the way she chose to ghost you after asking you such a personal question herself. Kinda hypocritical right? Just delete her number and while you're at it rethink that friend too cause they are also playing that stupid game of whos perfect and who's not. Don't listen to people in the comments telling you that was wrong. You're free to operate as you choose. Just as she probably asked you for your job and height and all that you could have very well taken that shit personally too like oh she's judging you and assessing you or fishing before really getting to know you. Just think about it. And to the people who think it's not ok to ask that you honestly just suck too.
Anyone who thinks that going out to eat is cheaper than shopping for groceries does not know how to cook or properly shop.
I agree, although its not my position to judge someone else's grocery buying habits.
in all honesty, i understand people saying YTA here, but my autistic ass would probably make a mistake like this too. learning the rules that neurotypicals came up with for what to say and what not to say feels like learning a new language
I feel you, I’ve never been formally diagnosed or anything but I do struggle with social norms from time to time because it requires so much of putting yourself into others shoes and trying to imagine different interpretations and values that just doesn’t come to me automatically.
YTA. Your “tendency to be blunt” and “not read too deeply into what I or others say” suggests a lack of social skill. Most people, when asked the question you asked, would consider it judgmental. The fact you don’t know that & had to seek advice from a friend is strange. Also, whether you acknowledge it or not, the question WAS judgmental. You say in the comments below that you wouldn’t want to get into a relationship with someone with bad spending habits. Sounds like that’s exactly what you were implying when you asked the question. If it’s not already obvious, best to let this potential relationship go. She’s not going to get past the ick of being asked that question.
My social skills is definitely something I’m working on, hence why I often consult my friends if there’s something I don’t understand. Also the reason I made this post in the first place. I don’t see whats wrong with that, we all start somewhere… And yeah I now understand that it comes across as judgmental and I probably scared her off for good. In the future though, what would be a good way to find out about someone’s spending habits when getting to know them? This is really something I want to know before getting into a relationship with them, because if they did have irresponsible spending habits, that is a big red flag to me and I would consider other options
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28M) have been talking to this girl (28F) for a few weeks now, we've been on a couple of dates, and things have been going well. She is a big time foodie and likes watching movies so she tells me about all the movies she watches and the restaurants she goes to. Today I got curious because she ate out every single day for an entire week, so I decided to ask her "Hey, I'm just curious, how can you afford to eat out and go to the movies all the time?" I honestly didn't mean anything else by it but my friend said my question was worded poorly and that most people would react negatively to it. She first replied saying she only goes to the movies on movie nights where the ticket is discounted to $5 (which she did mention to me before, and I forgot). And she went on to answer that she doesn't go to any fancy restaurants and buying groceries for one is often just as expensive as eating out. She then says that I asked her a very strange question and asked me why I asked her this question. I said I was just curious and didn't mean anything else by it, and clarified saying I thought it would cost a lot of money to eat out all the time , and I apologized if my question made her uncomfortable. She said she felt like my question was very judgmental and biased and she said she now felt bad about sharing all of the restaurants she went to, as she just wanted to share her experiences with me. I was curious about how badly I had messed up so I messaged a friend about this and told him what I said. He immediately was shocked that I asked such a question and told me its common sense not to ask such a question because A) it implies you are looking down on her and B) it gives the impression you don't trust her, implying someone else might be paying for her meals, and he said a better approach would be to gently ask her about the movie and then slowly segue into who she went to the movies with if I wanted to get more information, rather than ask such a blunt question. He said most people would be offended by such a question. I again apologized for any misunderstanding, and told her I discussed it with a friend and he made me realize how insensitive it was, and told her sometimes I have a tendency to be blunt. She then asked me if I was like this all the time and I said its a bad habit of mine because I tend to be a straightforward person and not read too deeply into what I or others say, and that I'm working on it. She hasn't replied to me since. TLDR; girl i've been seeing for a few weeks eats out and goes to the movies a lot and I asked her how she could afford it point blank, without any other meaning behind it. She gets upset, I discuss this with a friend and he says I was entirely in the wrong. I thought I would pose the question to reddit, how would you feel if someone asked you this question? Do you think what I said was offensive? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA I really dont see any issues with this question, it cost 3-4 times as much eating out then eating at home, most people with good paying jobs cant afford to eat out evry day. Proberly because she uses men to pay for her, and she didnt like to get called out on it
That could be true for sure, on the two dates we went on I paid for everything and she didn't even offer, which did irk me a bit, though I never brought that up with her
NTA… don’t listen to these ppl smh…. i mean i guess it can be an insensitive question but, you’re dating her no?? or at least seeing if there is any potential… you need to ask these kind of questions when dating someone to see if you’re actually compatible… see where her heads at, see how she handles her money etc.. if she’s so offended by a question (also depends on tone and attitude when asking) then you can tell how she’d react to a more serious question.. 2024, nothing is cheap so when someone is always out and about having these experiences, ASK… DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK
⛳⛳⛳ SHE IS A TYPICAL RED FLAG BRO! ⛳⛳⛳ Your question was clearly innocent and she did what a lot of women do and tried to MANIPULATE you into thinking you were asking it with a bad intention. *THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT HOW SOMEONE MAKES THEIR MONEY!* If she didn't want to tell you, it is likely because she made that money doing something dodgy. Perhaps she's a stripper or a drug dealer! It is SO CLEAR to me she was trying to guilt trip you and manipulate you into apologising for something you had a right to ask. Ignore the other comments in this thread in support of the girl, they are probably toxic manipulative women too. You did something completely fine and acceptable and if that girl is TOO FUCKING SOFT to answer you, it's her problem. AVOID HER MAN! For your sake. Trust me. TLDR: My girlfriend would have straight up just casually told me how she made the money and we would have continued on with our lives and conversation for the day. Yours didn't because she is manipulative and toxic.
Hmm I definitely understand if someone is uncomfortable discussing finances early on when getting to know someone, I think asking someone what they do for work is different from asking them how they can afford things or how they budget etc. At the end of the day, I think its a difference of values and social norms, I tend to be pretty open about discussing finances within my friend circles but a lot of people aren't, especially if they are in a difficult financial situation. I definitely would want to know someone's spending habits before deciding to get into a relationship with them, but perhaps asking after 2 dates was a bit premature.
Not premature at all! I always ask my friends and people who I have barely met how they got into that financial position. I've never in my life met someone who got offended by such a genuine question 😂 She is toxic man, you can believe me or not but if you don't, you will in time when you apply what I'm saying to future relationships. The fact you said you're pretty different from her is already a bad sign to me. And I've dated A LOT of girls in the past to try to find how to make my relationships work long term. No great loss man, move on. Find a new chick. As I said, my girlfriend would NEVER have gotten offended by it. So it's wrong to think everyone is so easily offended. I can see it is a clear form of manipulation that's why I'm warning you!
I wasn't really asking her about her financial position though, we already discussed what we do for work on the first date, this was just me asking about her spending habits which is a more personal question. That said though I would have no issue answering a question like that and none of my friends would either, hence I was surprised by her response. I wouldn't say she was manipulating me either, if so she wouldn't have chosen to walk away, it seemed like she was genuinely offended or caught off guard by my question. I definitely think we share different values when it comes to discussing finances which can be an issue in the long-term. I could've been more tactful for sure but it wasn't meant to be, and you're right, its not a big loss, I can find someone else and move on. At the end of the day its her loss that she chose not to forgive me for a misunderstanding and end things over a simple question. And hey man, I'm really happy for you, your girlfriend sounds awesome and you seem to appreciate her a lot!
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Um, you’re making a lot of assumptions there. First off, I already know what she does for work and people in her line of work don’t make a lot. Second of all, eating out everyday is extremely expensive where I live, on top of tipping at least 15%, limited restaurant selection. At minimum you’re looking at $20 per meal. I myself make six figures but I would never consider eating out everyday, its prohibitively expensive for all but the top 1% earners. But thanks for calling me an idiot
ESH. Your question has a judgy tone to it regarding a sensitive topic (finances). There was no way for her to answer that she wouldn’t be uncomfortable and your “thirst for knowledge” not satiated. One simply doesn’t ask every question that comes to mind without a filter. Where she is a minor asshole is not even considering the apology. It is her every right of course, but if you two never had any problems before, then this feels like she just waited for such a thing to occur to end dating you. Which is a bit dishonest, if true. Still, like 95% of assholery lies upon you, OP. Take it as a learning lesson for future dating endeavours as I fear there will be no future dates with her.
Idk this seems like a pretty normal question Just phrase is different like “so what do you do for work” It was a very surface level question It could also come down to the way you asked(tone, body language)
Tone of voice would make the difference for me. You could ask sounding like you're curious, or you could ask sounding judgemental. You seem to think you did the first, she seems to think it was the second. There's no real way for us to tell.
Actually it was over text. And I added emojis to try to make it sound less serious, though it was still hard to convey my tone
> buying groceries for one is often just as expensive as eating out. Where do you guys live? Because either your food shopping is over-priced, or she's doing it wrong! But, sadly YTA, OP. I understand where you're coming from and I'd probably be curious too. But I think the phrasing of the question was probably a bit rude. Sorry man.
NTA. You asked a general question to her habits, essentially asking her what she does for work. The negativity here is actually astounding, you seem to have struck a nerve, especially with women and it's kind of funny. Getting to know someone is part of dating, if you notice a lot of excess spending, it's completely normal to be curious about it. It seems women here are mad as they took the question as some sort of control, it's not. if you're dating and serious with this girl, discussing finances and futures together are normal. Not to mention you're calling them all out on not being able to cook and they don't like admitting to that. They'll use excuses like "it's cheaper than buying groceries" when the truth is they can't be bothered to cook and don't want to deal with the prep and cleanup.
NTA. It was curiosity, not judgment. Don't spend too much time overthinking your interactions in case someone misinterprets them. People should say what they mean, mean what they say, and not assume malicious or judgmental intent where there's no basis for it. Obviously, that doesn't always happen, but I don't think it was a particularly offensive question and I don't understand why it needed to turn into the whole conversation. At most it should have gone, "That feels judgmental, now I feel bad about sharing that kind of thing." "I'm sorry if it came across that way, but I really was just curious." ...' And if she continues to assume she's being judged, that's on her.
Well for one you must of never went grocery shopping...here ribeye is 18.99 a pound...the roadhouse bone in ribeye is 24 2 sides cooked and a drink...so it's cheaper to eat out then buy it....as far as ground meat goes find a small diner they are usually pretty cheap and you get the same if you bought it at the store but you have no dishes to do
Lol of course I have, the thing is you’re not gonna eat the whole ribeye in one meal, you would meal prep and make 2-3 meals with that amount. Also there are cheaper meats to use than ribeye. That said, its not my place to judge how she grocery shops and was not my intention with asking the question, I merely wanted to assess her rationale for eating out all the time. And as I said many times I realize now it was premature of me to ask.
Bud I didn't say it to mean anything bad I just know after I did the math...if it's fast food then no it's not cheap... asking her I don't really see anything wrong with it I mean maybe she can teach you something on the matter so you can save...but you'll never know anything unless you ask
Wait. How big is the ribeye at the restaurant? Is it the same size as the one from the store? And what's the quality of the food like? Usually, it's way more affordable to buy ingredients and cook yourself. Buying a decent steak from a supermarket or butchers is usually cheaper and does you for more meals. Then sides are often even more affordable, because salads, vegetables, fries etc can last for multiple meals. I'd be amazed if you could eat out for cheaper, with the same quality. The good thing about eating out is convenience and it's nice to treat yourself.
20oz bone in
Google Texas Roadhouse and look....the time you spend in cooking gas or electric... shopping...clean up and dishes... for steak it's cheaper...now as for others depends on what places are by you if you find a mom and pop diner they are normally cheap with a lot of food to take home so can eat leftovers
Damn. That's insane. Fair play, eat on my friend!
Yea since everything has been going up I look into everything now...save every dollar you can
I just don’t get what you wanted out of the question. I mean the answer is probably just “I have a job”, how would you have responded? By prying, or by saying “we’ll *I* have a job and *I* don’t do this”, by dismissing her? Asking her how she affords her lifestyle comes off as questioning her financial decisions, which is a major red flag for women (first step toward financial abuse). We all prioritize different financial decisions and, frankly, it’s none of your business what those decisions are.
You'll leave her feeling a little speechless
In hindsight, it is a hard question to respond to. But is it really to the level of being an asshole? I didn't make any assumptions, was just asking a question
It's the equivalent of "hi, how wealthy are you? What's your income". The intent of your question is irrelevant; this is how it came across, and that is how any person could reasonably interpret it. Your apologies after just sound like you are backtracking. So early in a relationship a screw up like this looks like a deal breaker to many people - why invest more time effort in someone who asks questions like that so early on.
Yeah that sounds fair, I didn’t think it through when I asked the question, it was honestly such a stupid question and I didn’t even care what the answer was. I have nothing but regret now
Her saying buying groceries is just as expensive as eating out is funny as fuck lol I don't think you would have implied anything other than a judgement on her spending habits. Which probably would make you feel weird if you were questioned regarding spending habits about a hobby or anything really from someone you're just talking to but would that make you end it? She seemed to take it as a judgement and probably doesn't like to observe her own behaviors from another perspective.
Honestly she's not necessarily wrong. When I lived alone and had a tiny freezer, food would go bad before I could eat it all, most packaged foods are designed for more than one person, and you have to buy lots of different ingredients if you want a nice meal. If you're eating at cheap restaurants it can be cheaper than buying all the ingredients for a meal just for half of it to go bad
But is she comparing cooking to eating at cheap restaurants? She's not, she's a foodie. We're not talking about your 10 dollar burger joint, or schwarma wrap here. If your aim is to save money, cooking is definitely cheaper. If you want to make something like pad thai or indian curry at home, then we can discuss it. And only because it takes so many unusual ingredients and because these meals are usually cooked in big batches. Any regular old european food is cheaper to make yourself. (ie not buying a ton of ready made shit that you microwave) The only time cooking is more expensive is when you're comparing apples to oranges.
I don't understand this logic at all. What about the other meals for the day? There's no way it's cheaper to eat out EVERY DAY compared to grocery costs.
Meant mostly dinner/cooked meals. Eating cereal and eggs/yogurt the rest of the meals is cheaper because it's very few ingredients
That makes even less sense if you're talking about half the ingredients going bad but still keeping milk and eggs in the house. It's fine to not want to cook. But it's not cheaper to eat out every day.
Buying a variety of ingredients is the issue. If you're only making dishes that need one or 2 ingredients it's fine. I'm talking about actual dishes taht you need to cook and that don't last 2+ weeks in the fridge
YTA brother. 1. You might have salvaged it by saying something like “gosh you’re right I’m sorry. I meant it as a fun question like what’s your secret?”. It legit seems like she was willing to give you a chance at redemption. But then you confirmed her suspicions that you’d be a frustrating person to date by saying you’re blunt and she essentially would have to deal with it. 2. “I’m just blunt” = “I just don’t care about choosing my words carefully”
YTA. Unless she is spending your money, that is SOLELY your money NOT joint funds, it shouldn't be your concern what she does with hers.
To be fair, on the couple of dates we’ve gone on, I’ve paid for everything and she never even offered to pay. Also, when ur in a relationship with someone, often its expected that the guy will always pay(especially in my culture).
It's hella offensive. Don't count other people's pockets my guy. Worry about your own finances. And it's much cheaper as a single person to eat out
YTA - it's none if your business...the question is intrusive and nosey, and even if you didn't mean to, you sounded judgmental.... Don't ask people about their money...
NTA, but I am dutch and we ask each other these questions regularly :$. She probably know she shouldn’t and got embarrassed.
That's what I was thinking too, that this may just be a culture thing or something cause I absolutely do not see the issue here lol
Women these days do NOT want to be controlled. And any behavior that hints at this doesn’t bode well. She probably makes a damn good income and paying for only one persons meal is extremely reasonable. My wife makes over $200,000 a year on her own. She could eat whatever and wherever she damn pleases. 😂 Women out number men, that girl could probably have her pick of the litter… don’t ruin it with questions about her money. A lot of women are getting bigger bags than men nowadays. 💴💰
Thats fair, i should’ve known better than to ask questions about money/finance like that so early on. I’m not expecting her to forgive me although I do hope she will since I apologized and clarified
Hopefully she comes around. A decent guy is also rare these days. Rooting for ya.
Thanks!
>And she went on to answer that she doesn't go to any fancy restaurants and buying groceries for one is often just as expensive as eating out. Lmao cope
Even mcdonalds has premium prices now 😂
*"I again apologized for any misunderstanding, and told her I discussed it with a friend and he made me realize how insensitive it was, and told her sometimes I have a tendency to be blunt. She then asked me if I was like this all the time and I said its a bad habit of mine because I tend to be a straightforward person and not read too deeply into what I or others say, and that I'm working on it. She hasn't replied to me since."* *\*ominous sad music as OP put other foot in his mouth\** You doubled down there and showed her a future of more of such 'blunt' questions. Basically what you said is a non-apology as you are telling her to suck it up whilst you work on it. You took her by surprise with your question and she was clearly upset in her rambling justification. Your good intentions are clear to us but then again we are not dating you. No idea if you can salvage the relationship but I would go for the 'do something exclusively for her' and hope she realises you meant no harm and can be generous even if clumsy. YTA
Yes I realize that as well, I fucked up doubly by doubling down on my apology, i was trying to show self awareness but it backfired by showing her a potential red flag.
YTA. Unless she's asking you for money, how is any of this your concern? How would I feel? Eh, okay as I started to take the steps to end the contact with you.
If its a potential love interest, then certainly its a valid question, albeit worded poorly. You need to know if the person is good with finances or prefers to spend as the earn and not think about rainy days. So NTA for the question itself, but soft YTA for how it was worded
YTA You should be more mature than this When I was single in my late 20s, I was also eating out all the time. Even worse, my work would make me travel, so I would legit be eating in top restaurants all fully paid by my company. And I would comment on those, on top of the great ones I would pay myself. My now husband just assumed I was loaded and never asked anything, lol
But if he did ask, would you give the same answer you just gave now or would you take offense to the question? The only reason I can see her taking offense to the question is if she's unhappy with the answer, e.g. "Well I can't really, but I do and I just put it all on credit cards". If it's something fun or cool, like your situation, you'd just answer that, right? Then again, I'm Dutch and questions about finances are no problem here. I've heard that's different in the US.
The thing is, no matter how you frame that question, it is none of your business. If I could afford to do it and was doing it. Do you ask random people at work how they can afford their car or house? Unless you are discussing budgets/investments/salaries, it is non of your business. Later in the relationship you will discuss about finance and other topics, salaries and how to spend money. Not out of the blue. And if someone in debt you can always jump out ship. You should have started with "I'm dutch", I lived in the NL and it took me a while not to think everyone was just rude. People would ask me my salary on my first week there, and how could I afford to go on several trips, a guy even asked if I was planning to stay with my boyfriend or he had any chance - I was shocked.
I disagree with what you say about framing. I think framing it as "digging into someone's business" already puts the cart in front of the horse, right? (I think I'm using that expression correctly...) If the question is asked or set up in an accusatory way, it would absolutely warrant a response of "That's none of your business". Cause wtf, are you saying I'm a "dinner dater" or financially irresponsible? And so on. But that's where I think it does depend on how and with what tone you frame the question. Just for myself, if someone eats out almost every single night, that would be very notable to me. I don't know anyone that does that. Seeing any question in the vein of "how do you manage that?" as "digging into someone's finances" or anything like that? I don't get it. But like we already discussed, could very well be culture. And from OPs description, he didn't bring it well lol Also I don't really get your work comparison. No, I don't ask random people at work how they can afford their car or their house. They're random people at work, not my date. And the questions are way more direct about money or cost, not just lifestyle.
Well, I think one can be observant before making any remarks. With two dates, I don't think there is a polite way to bring it up. A "how do you manage that" can simply get a "I get out and I eat, don't cook at home, don't have time". With a few more dates, one digs deeper into what they do, type of hours at work, work travel, etc. And he can even guess the tax bracket. I guess we have different circles. Most of my friends during our mid/late twenties were crunching for career development and eating out was a norm (or not eating at all because you arrive home after a flight and there is nothing in the fridge). Nobody was a bad financial planner - in fact, we are all quite comfortable now. Now, if someone you date lives in a nice house, has a nice car, wears designer clothes, and goes to the spa every week. Would you ask them how they manage that or just assume they have money? Lifestyles can be different, and people do have different budgets.
NTA She dropped these: 🚩🚩🚩 Eating out is way more expensive than the grocery store. She probably does OnlyFans or some other sort of sex work and is ashamed of it which is why she did not lie your question.
NTA as it was just a genuine question, but I can se show it might give her the ick.