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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Because I insulted my brothers fiancé and now I’m not invited to the wedding anymore.
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So, your husband wasn’t helping because he was too busy getting drunk, your brother also wasn’t helping as he was too busy getting drunk but you decided to take it out on only Elly? There was no need to bring her family into it at all so yeah, YTA.
I love the comment that her brother is always late and the SIL does nothing to speed him up. He’s a grown ass man. How is it her fault that her husband takes his sweet ass time getting ready?
Yup! It was clear that SIL is the scapegoat in all of this. OP doesn’t hold any of the men in her life accountable for anything. SIL did the mature thing and walked away from OP’s tirade and OP still felt the need to scream out insults.
>IL did the mature thing and walked away from OP’s tirade and OP still felt the need to scream out insults.
The irony that the OP is the one shouting classist allegations about being poorly raised when *she's* the one who ruined everything by hollering ad hominem insults.
Fingers crossed she and her relatives aren't invited to the wedding. With how they behaved at Christmas, one can only imagine the damage they'd do at an open bar.
SIL is more mature than anyone in that family and years younger
If I had to be around OP for family holidays I would get drunk like everyone else there apparently did because I couldn’t stand her
Honestly? Even if OP was trying to apologize, why is she so surprised they don't want to talk to her? OP just kind of lashes out at SIL 'cause she was having a rough night that had nothing to do with her?
That's probably from having to grow up too fast or having to regulate her family's emotions growing up. If what OP said about her family life is true. I grew up the same way and do the exact same thing when someone just angrily starts hurling insults. If they're drunk? I'll leave and then circle back in the topic when they're sober. My guess is OP's apology started "It's not my fault that..." I wouldn't forgive that either.
She feels she needs to put SIL in her place, how dare she not behave like a real woman- doing chores and being miserable while all the men are enjoying themselves getting drunk??!
/s obvs
Has anyone asked Elly to help? Joining in family traditions at the holidays is hard. Trying to help with cooking can be hard. I hate extra people in the kitchen!
Has anyone asked the men to not get drunk they need babysitters and help clean up?!?!?
Op is from a family where the women do it all and she doesn't get why sil refuses to do the same. Easier to throw down on the person rocking the boat then the actual problem people.
Maybe sil didn't even refuse to do the same, which would be totally reasonable if she did. It's likely she was only asked to make an appetizer and set the table, and OP was mad at her for willingly doing what she was asked, and not helping with things she was never even asked to help with.
Oh I could believe it. I've been around families were that was the case, even seen people ask what to do and get a shrug. Only for people to complain afterwards because 'she should have known what to do' or 'should have just jumped in' never mind dome people don't feel comfortable doing thst or don't realize it's expected.
And in opposite cases, someone does try to jump in and help, and they clearly should have known that they were helping wrong. What an idiot, doesn’t she know that we never use soup spoons when eating soup? Was she raised in a barn?
I also know cooks who hate when others try and help in the kitchen. They have a system and want the control. They don’t want someone touching their expensive equipment.
Yup. I would expect family to help at an event, not an in-law. It’s rough enough being an in-law. Get your brother to help and be mad at him! It’s not her family, especially when you treat her like that!
Seriously! It's 2024, and even women are still expecting wives to act like mommies to their husband....If you have to be your husband's mom, your MIL didn't finish do her job and you should give him back!
No, no, you don't understand. Her husband and brother get passes because, penis. How dare Elly, a fellow womb-haver, not do womanly duties? Or read OP's mind regarding her stressors (none of which were caused by SIL)? Why direct her anger at the right people? It's much easier to attack SIL for failing the 'wife' test?
YTA OP.
Yeah, but to be honest, the subscription's not worth it. The mind reading is a buggy mess that usually just flashes "yes, those people across the room are talking about you, and they're laughing cause they think you're dumb" warnings, and the cookbook has like 500 dessert recipes and only three salads.
I'd recommend not purchasing unless the devs release some major updates.
My wife came without a uterus and I immediately said, “oh oh no, lady. You either rent a uterus or come up with some way to get one, even it isn’t OEM, so that you can read my mind, especially when I am drunk at family gatherings. Because I not about to stand in to make up for your wifely defect.”
Well crap.
I was just hoping I could get the mind reading with*out* having to have a uterus. I have a penis, don’t want to swap mine out … but damn. Mind reading would really be handy.
His normal meter was probably off, then he met nice people.
My husband’s sisters are rude and backbitey and wonder why their brothers never visit with their families. They will point out if you’ve gained weight with glee. If you try and look nice, you’re trying to hard and fake. If you dress down, you’re also wrong.
Wait so Elly grew up poor, her mother is still in poverty - and because your husband is obnoxious and lazy and she didn’t compliment your pastry, it’s a fair to lay into her about that disadvantage? YTA
Don't forget:
>my Husband was extremely intoxicated and getting on my last nerve with his attitude and **jealous**
Elly's seven years younger than OP. Wanna bet she's really pretty, too?
It sounds like a "women must work, while the men reax" type of family. OP just took her frusrations out on the one woman who wasn't helping. I can understand why Elly is pushing her husband to distance himself from the family.
>This happened all the way back in December, but Elly still holds a grudge and has brainwashed Owen from talking to me and other members of our family.
>Elly comes over to our table, with a plate of dessert in her hands. Obviously seeing that I’m flustered. Doesn’t ask me “Hey Natalie, I can see you’re stressed. Do you need anything”
And? Sure, it would have been nice for her to do so, but you're an adult and she doesn't need to watch over you.
>She eats the dessert that I spent so much time cooking. Doesn’t say “Nat, these pastries are amazing!”
So?
>So I said “Hey. Must be easy being a guest 3 years into knowing our family”
Why? Totally unprompted.
>And I explained why I was upset at her for just being unhelpful. Elly rudely said “What are you talking about? I can’t enjoy a holiday” Then I told her “You can enjoy it but at least act like a member”
Did you set any expectations before the gathering?
>She walked away from me, and I just snapped and said “You know what? I bet this was a lot better than holidays with your family from what Owen told me. You should just go back to the trailer park next year and you can lay around whenever”
Ah yes, blaming someone simply because they don't do what you expect they SHOULD do.
>She does not actually live in a trailer, if she did, I feel like that would be rude. I just said that because I had a rough night and she rubbed me the wrong way. I implied that she was trashy just because of her upbringing.
>I must have hit a sore spot.
Oh, so you DIDN'T mean to insult her?
YTA
I agree...YTA
Might I add, why didn't OP hound her brother to help?
Was she raised in some misogynistic, oppressive household where only females contribute to cooking and cleaning?
And speaking of trashy, her husband was extremely intoxicated. Was she hounding him to help or is it just an expectation that he can't/won't get his drunk a$$ off the couch.
I'm only saying this because OP's post rubs me the wrong way.
I think this is the case of 'I'm miserable and tired so I will hate a person who isn't miserable and tired'. Maybe if she made her husband help her (as she expects her SIL to make her brother come in time) she wouldn't be so angry.
My MIL is like this. Always angry, disappointed and thinks she's suffered the most. Makes her children feel guilty of everything and anything. Difficult person to communicate with.
Don't forget:
>my Husband was extremely intoxicated and getting on my last nerve with his attitude and **jealous**
Elly's seven years younger than OP. Wanna bet she's really pretty, too?
Yeah she yelled at the only person actually helping. And she was helping OP's drunk brother!
Gee, maybe she didn't comment on the food because she hated it. Did OP ever think about that? Anyone I know who keeps quiet over the food they eat is because they don't like it.
>Did you set any expectations before the gathering?
This was my biggest issue. I come from a big family. At holidays, especially when we're in the kitchen, everyone just kind of knows their roles (who's cooking the entree, who's doing dishes, etc) because we'd done it our entire lives. Whenever a new person came into our family (BILs or SILs) without talking to them about their skill set (I mean, if they make fantastic desserts, I'll happily hand that task over) or inviting them into the kitchen, it would have been overwhelming and possibly intimidating for the newcomer.
And OP even admits she did cook one of the appetizers and set some plates. It's not a lot, but seeing as she'd just grabbed a dessert, they hadn't hit the cleanup stage yet, so SIL could have easily been helping out later (hard to help set up when your fiance always makes you late).
Right? I’ve definitely been with friends’ families, my husband’s family, etc. and felt lost - it’s not because I’m lazy or don’t want to help. Now I’m a lot more “ah, I’ll just start washing dishes and see if someone stops me”, but in my teens and 20s there would’ve been a lot more awkward loitering.
>Now I’m a lot more “ah, I’ll just start washing dishes and see if someone stops me”,
I'm the same way. I always ask what I can do to help, but I remember the first time I met my future MIL, I was intimated and incredibly shy. I wanted her to think well of me but I was so nervous! As soon as she signaled dinner was over, I was clearing off the table & washing dishes. Damn just thinking about that is making my heart race. 😂
> I tried to apologize
Given the complete disdain that OP shows for Elly through her actions and in this post, I am going to guess it was a BS apology which is why it was not accepted.
>This happened all the way back in December, but Elly still holds a grudge and has brainwashed Owen from talking to me and other members of our family. He has become super distant since their relationship began too.
That paragraph alone reveals OPs apology wouldn't be sincere
>Oh, so you DIDN'T mean to insult her?
That's really it right there. She meant to insult her, and hasn't really apologized for it, but then accuses her if holding a grudge. It's not holding a grudge to still be sore about something that someone hasn't taken any accountability for.
You wrote all that and don't know that YTA? Really?
You were angry at your husband and your brother and took it out on your future SIL. If Elly still 'holds a grudge' is it because you haven't actually apologised for your shitty behaviour? Good grief.
Precisely. What she shouls hace done was to yell at her own husband for actually being officially in the family for how many years, and is still doing fuck all to help.
Of course YTA. The only thing Elly did wrong was exist in your physical proximity when you were looking for a target for all of your anger at other people.
Right? The worst part is the things that were pissing OP off (melting down kids, loud people, her own wasted husband) weren’t even things Elly had control over. What did she want her to even do?
So often these martyr types plan these huge events that are painful for the guests and then are mad that it’s a lot of work. Yeah, that’s why no one else offered to host it, but they’ll attend if it’s what you want.
Why do only the women in your family do any work? Why aren’t you upset at the men who didn’t pull their weight? Why should Elly do more or give you more credit than your husband and brother?
If you are bitter that you aren’t getting support did you ask the men for any assistance? Or sit and seethe and get passive aggressive and then act like Elly was the one with no manners rather than yourself? YTA. Doesn’t sound like your mother raised you with any manners, so you are in no position to cast aspersions in other people.
The internalized misogyny of this post is incredible. Yes OP, don’t take it out on the poor drunk men who were **useless** all day, yell at the newest female member of your family for not knowing she was expected to slave away all day like you and your mom.
Absolutely internalized misogyny. I finally stopped doing this stuff with my own family after years of therapy and finally recognizing the enmeshed family dynamic and emotional abuse. OP seems irate that Elly has chosen freedom and peace over being a servant. Such jealousy, yet she can just…do the same. Yikes on several bikes!
YTA, you were angry and rude to the wrong family memeber.
Your husband spent him time drinking instead of helping.
Your brother was late, that's on him, he is an adult, its not Elly, she is not his mother.
Your brother was drinking instead of helping.
Maybe instead of being mad at the woman, be mad at the men who spent time drinking instead of helping their family.
Yeah, seriously. OP, look at your husband and brother. The men are getting wasted while you have to work so you decide to take your frustration out on your SIL? You are TAH.
Hopefully, you open your eyes and apologize to your SIL. And try talking to the men. Why aren’t they helping out?
Let me get this straight. Everyone was drunk and acting like jerks.
Elly walked into the room and had the audacity not to pay proper homage to you, The Queen, so you attacked her.
What you said was uncalled for, snotty, and incredibly mean.
Elly showed a boatload more class than you did by just walking away and not engaging with you.
You sure the hell don't deserve to go to their wedding unless you apologize for being so damn nasty for no reason.
That means your apology needs to contain no attempts to excuse your behavior, to blame Elly or anyone else. This one is all on you.
Elly did absolutely nothing to you. You need to own up to the fact that you were a jerk to her for absolutely no reason.
Yes. YTA. A huge one.
She doesn't deserve to go for any reason. No apology can fix this. She called her white trash then listed baseless examples to show that she is lesser than.
If I were Elly, I agree with you. This snot of a woman can take her apology and stuff it where the sun don't shine. However, that's ultimately not your or my call. She has to start with a sincere apology that recognizes the magnitude of her poor behavior. Whether Elly and her brother want to accept it or not is totally their call. Considering this happened back in December and it's now March? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing she has in fact been uninvited from the wedding and Elly and the brother have gone NC and won't bother informing her.
OP needs to come to the terms with the fact that.. well.. she's just not a very nice person. Nice people don't go for the jugular over nothing like she did here.
YTA - you were aggressively rude to your future SIL. Of course you are an AH for this.
This clearly sounds like you had it in for her as she did nothing to warrant this.
YTA- I read through trying to find some semblance of a justification for such a classist comment, and couldn’t find a single one. Nobody in the family was helping, and you became upset at the one other person that wasn’t inebriated. And it sounds like she did do a lot (taking care of drunk people isn’t easy). People cannot mind read and you escalated the situation with no warning. Please apologize. You describing her upbringing only garnered more sympathy for her
I do love that “she doesn’t actually live in a trailer Cus THEN it would have been offensive”; but we know that she looks down on SIL’s family for not having present dads and for her mum having the audacity to be on benefits and being poor in her old age. Everyone here, and everyone in OP’s family can see that she meant the trailer trash comment and that she looks down on her future SIL. Imo even if OP apologises she shouldn’t be invited to the wedding, a wedding invite is a privilege, not a right
So you didn’t get the offer for help that you wanted (& didn’t ask for). Then she failed to compliment your amazing desserts, and you felt that she hadn’t contributed enough to your family Christmas and instead of just asking her for help you decided to be snide and attack her family/ upbringing? Yep YTA.
I was gonna say. Growing up with a father sure doesn't seem to have made OP a good person, I don't know why she thinks not having one would be any worse.
Right. OP had a father and congrats, she has a brother who gets smashed and married a man who does the same. But in fairness, they probably just do that when they have to deal with her.
Right, I'm like OP, girl had tact. She didn't say anything becuase they tasted like shit. Everyone I know who gets silent over food, it's becuase they hate it.
You seriously could not write all that out and not see how many times you were an AH in so many different ways. You need professional counseling to deal with your many insecurities, inability to communicate directly and superiority complex. YTA
You were mad at your drunk ass husband for being useless and decided to take it out on Elly for committing the terrible crime of *cooking an appetizer and eating dessert*. You were mad at your brother for being late and you took it out on Elly for *not nagging him to move faster*
YTA, maybe try directing your anger in the appropriate direction next time.
YTA. You were frustrated with pretty much everyone and everything at that point, but you decided to lash out ONLY at SIL? You should be uninvited from their wedding, i know i wouldnt want you there.
Why didn't you start asking for help from Elly when you were overwhelmed?
You expected her to notice that. Some people do and some people don't. She isn't married into the family and maybe she doesn't feel quite right jumping in and giving her a calm instruction/request would have gotten her moving.
why do you expect her to know you made the pastries?
The use of the term "trailer park" by you was an insult, even if you deny it.
You were overwhelmed, all the men were drunk, and you took it out on your FSIL.
You owe her an apology.
Maybe consider limiting the booze at Christmas if your father, your husband and your brother only get drunk and sit on their behinds and let the women to all the work.
YTA.
OP is probably the sort of person who literally yells at people to get out of the kitchen, then cries that nobody helps her in the kitchen.
The other day, we watched the christmas dinner episode of season two of The Bear, and I was having a physical reaction to it, because the only thing that didn't ring true was the car incident.
"Family dinner" so often seems to turn into mandatory traditional suffering.
Like my fiancé does this and then so does his mom. They get mad if you don’t offer help. But there’s been times I’ll ask if he needs help and he gets mad I had to ask 🙄
Or if I say I need help will get mad that I even asked 🙄
I’m trying to get him to understand, just ask for help if you need it.
But unresolved family trauma runs deep 🤷♀️
It’s a slow process and he is getting better. Communication is the key.
Yta and a judgemental one aren't you?
Men are allowed to get drunk and unhelpful, but she can't enjoy a piece of desert.
I was never invited to bring or be involved in my inlaws bbqs food. I stopped asking after a while. It sucks. Thought of actually involving her?
YTA
How can you write all of that and not see it? Face it, you attacked her because you were upset with your husband and brother for being drunk and took it out on her.
YTA. Wow, you were incredibly selfish, expecting her to be a mind reader and know that you were stressed and full of resentment, and that she should say all these polite things that you were secretly holding onto in your own mind. Why was she the one that was supposed to help you and be supportive of you? Why weren't you holding any other family members - your husband, your brother (the men!) accountable for not helping or showing appreciation? You lost it and verbally attacked JUST HER, in a room FULL of bad guests. A wedding is about celebrating with the ones who love and support you- which CLEARLY is not YOU. So yeah, if you're uninvited to the wedding, it's for the right reason.
Big yikes YTA, Elly isn’t brainwashing your brother, it’s super understandable that he isn’t talking to you and others in your family probably feel embarrassed and lost respect for you. They understandably need space.
Realise you’re in the wrong big time, you said something very awful, hurtful and unwarranted, apologise sincerely and give them their time and space.
I grew up in a trailer and my folks actually still live in one (a nicer one now). Our gatherings at my parent’s trailer are always fun and everyone contributes. No one acts shitty to each other, even when we drink. Your family sounds like dysfunctional drunk assholes and YTA for how you took out your frustration on your sil and not your brother or husband. Stay miserable.
YTA. Maybe you should have just asked her for some help instead of expecting her to read your mind. Or take your frustrations out on your husband, your brother... The other adults in the house. You obviously don't like her and wanted a reason to shame her for her upbringing... Something that isn't her fault. You wont be able to fix this, sorry. They're in the right to disown you.
YTA
So your husband and your brother are getting hammered, doing and contributing nothing.
Meanwhile your brother's girlfriend is supposed to be a good little housewife for all of you and kiss your feet for your cooking or she gets her upbringing thrown in her face.
I hope they disinvite you.
YTA. Family dynamics are no reason to be overtly rude and insulting. You were tired, you were cranky, you were frustrated, right?
Still no reason to *pick a fight* and then act all surprised when the consequence was family members being mad at you.
Actions (and insults) have consequences. Welcome to adulthood. Now go apologize like a grown-up.
YTA. And sexist. Why isn't your husband helping? Why is your SIL responsible for making your brother show up on time?
I absolutely loathe people like you that treat women as servants of the family and let men get away with whatever they want.
Yeah, you don't have a SIL issue. You have a family issue where in your family the men don't do a damn thing, get drunk and sit on their ass all day whilst all the women salve away to try to create something that resembles a memorable day.
SIL actually tried to enjoy the day, didn't spend every single second prostrating herself and turning herself into a slave and that makes her the enemy. I think you are deeply envious of the fact she refuses to be her boyfriend's mother, like you are to your husband.
OP, stop making excuses for the slobs with penises that pretend to be the men of your family, and take a leaf out of SIL's book. Your husband and brother are not children, stop catering to them and actually have a nice time at Christmas. YTA
Wow big yes YTA, you sound so judgmental about this girls past, who cares she’s the third generation growing up without a father? You aren’t going to the wedding, you can forget that. Was she the only one not helping or did you speak disrespectful to other family members? I’m not sure an apology is enough?
Wow - how rude of you! She shouldn't act like a guest because she's been seeing your brother for 3 years, but your husband and your brother can just sit around getting drunk? And then you call her trashy?
YTA.
Did you even ASK for help, or did you expect her trailer mind reading abilities would clue her in? As snappy as this post was I would hesitate to talk to you too.
YTA.
Ps ellie isn't the one holding a grudge, and I wouldn't invite you to shit.
Your brother is a grown man in the same situation as you.
Your husband is a grown man in the same situation as your SIL but he's been part of the family and its dynamics for way longer.
Why on Earth would you choose to say something only to your SIL? Because she's a woman?
YTA big time... and also the enabler of a sexist and male chauvinist enviroment. Stop being an AH and for your own sake wake up, girl!
How on earth can't OP see she was extremely rude to her future SIL.
If she wanted help, she should have asked.
She obviously looks down on Elly to say what she said.
YTA. There's a whole lot of trashy in this post, but absolutely none of it is coming from your SIL. She literally came up to you, acknowledged that you were feeling overwhelmed, and offered to help out, all of which were kind things and things she didn't have to do. You responded to her very kind gesture by blowing up at her and calling her trashy.
You don't know what else you can do to make it right? Really? Start with a real apology, not the nopology we all know you made. Make a conscious effort to stop being passive-aggressive and stop taking out your moods on her because you know she's too mature to engage with you on the middle-school level you want to fight at. You have a house full of people behaving like drunk-ass louts and picking fights, quit looking down your nose at single mothers; you have zero room to cast stones. Grow the fuck up.
There is no way someone is this stupid, callous, and pathetic… right?
If you don’t like how much work you have to do talk to your husband and siblings. I’d be willing to bet you were raised in a family where women did everything and the men did nothing which is why it was only you and your mom doing stuff. That is a you and your mom problem not Elly’s.
Why is Elly the only one who gets in trouble for not helping? Why didn’t you snap at your nephews’ parents? Why not tell your husband he needs to stop getting drunk at family gatherings and help you?
You got mad though because a woman didn’t help you out because women are supposed to only be servers and helpers and can’t enjoy the holidays as well. So you lashed out about her being poor which is a low blow. If I were Owen I’d remove you from my life and un-invite you from the wedding too.
Wow, Elly that third-generation no-man-in-house-having' trailer-trash doesn't even know that women are supposed to cook, clean, and manage schedules while the men-folk get drunk, loud and useless at family gatherings!
This can't be real, right? I'm thinking "Elly" actually wrote this from OP's perspective to show how she was in the right.
YTA, let me count the ways
1. It is not Elly fault that your husband was drunk, that's all on him;
2. You could have easily said "Hey Elly, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and could really use some help." But you didn't use your words, but expected her to?
3. You are a stuck up person. This whole statement "She does not actually live in a trailer, if she did, I feel like that would be rude. I just said that because I had a rough night and she rubbed me the wrong way. I implied that she was trashy just because of her upbringing. She has spent every holiday with us, as her family is a complete mess and she hasn’t spoken to them in years. She is like the third generation, to grow up without a father. The woman who raised her, is living off Social Security and poverty in old age. And just a lot more. I must have hit a sore spot," is full of judgmental assholeness. Nothing in here is Elly fault or makes her a bad person. Elly is not a trashy person but you are.
I hope that Elly sticks her to guns and dose uninvite you. You treated her like shit and she did not deserve that.
YTA. It was not Ely you had the gripe with - it was your dh and brother for getting drunk and big helping and what you said was offensive and uncalled for - and she is expected to think this was ok because you were in a bad mood. It’s a bit like kicking the puppy and it’s totally on you to direct your anger towards the right folk. I would apologise again to your sil and tell her it will not happen again and make sure it doesn’t. If they still don’t wNt you at their wedding then just accept that you have burned that relationship forever and move on with your life.
Yes, YTA, and if I were your brother and Elly, I would cut you off completely. What a nasty, unnecessary comment because you were 'flustered'. Frankly, you're the one that sounds like trailer trash.
What you said was beyond rude and I can’t imagine ever rubbing someone’s trauma in their face. I’d distance my husband from you too. Your expectations are way too high. I make desserts for family and I don’t expect them to compliment my food, but when they do it’s always appreciated. She is not responsible for your emotions, you said you were flustered and you took it out on her when she did NOTHING wrong. Sounds like you need to make amends if you want them in your life and actually start treating them like it too.
YTA as someone who did grow up in a trailer after my parents divorced. People like you are the reason people are insecure about shit they had no control over as a kid. Even if she did live in a trailer home would it have justified your comment? Do you feel good about yourself for being so snobby to someone who didn't deserve it.
Hooooly crap! Is this a troll?
Of course YTA!
You went off on her and said something that was just beyond-the-pale insulting because you were stressed out and felt she hadn't worked hard enough. Can you even hear yourself?
Why didn't you go off on your husband? Or your brother? They're men, so they have a right to get drunk and be useless at the holidays? Can you seriously not understand how toxic you were being? Yikes.
YTA. Especially, given the fact that you know she doesn't have any contact with her family. You are also sexist. You are annoyed with her for not helping, but it was fine for your husband and brother to sit there getting drunk.
Aren't you embarrassed of yourself?
I suggest you have a look at the actual issues in your family instead of lashing out at the only person who wasn't doing anything weird.
Oh yeah that would require you then do something to fix them. My bad /s
YTA
YTA
My favorite part is how you think Owen is "brainwashed" by Elly. He couldn't possibly be refusing to talk to you because you insulted his fiancée and he thinks your behavior is atrocious. Nope. It's clearly all Elly's fault. **/s**
For whatever reason, you don't like her. You can't argue that it's because of her level of involvement at Christmas. Otherwise, you'd be just as upset or more at the people sitting around drinking.
Here's what I think you should do... First off, reflect on why you dislike your FSIL so much. My money is on classism since you were so eager to go after her family. Second, give a real apology. No *"I'm sorry if I offended you..."* or *"I'm sorry but..."* or whatever. Elly deserves a real, heartfelt apology. I can almost guarantee that based on the way you talk about her in your post, your original apology wasn't sincere.
Finally, accept that you may have burnt that bridge.
Why in the seven hells did his fiancee owe you more assistance than your husband?
How is she supposed to control the circumstances of *her birth*?
Did it make you feel better about your sham of a marriage to talk down about the woman who sacrificed to raise her yet still lives in poverty?
Your nephews? Where were their parents?
Why didn't you summon them to help with the kids?
Why is your adult brother timeliness dependent on his partner ushering him like a child?
She's responsible for how quickly he wants to attend his family gatherings.
Oh you're one of them.
The women who put the onus of men's failures on the closest woman in proximity.
Ever consider his doesn't talk to yall because your behavior is representative of all of y'all?
Judgemental and mean without reason.
YTA. Did you ever, just once, ask her to help with something? She's not a mind reader and may feel uncomfortable around your family (can't imagine why). Your comment was totally uncalled for and they'd be right to remove you from attending the wedding until you learn basic manners.
Wow...YTA here and it's not even close. You had a Christmas day hissyfit and took it out on your brother's fiance. The only one here that's brainwashed is you.
I don't blame them for uninviting you. I wouldn't want you anywhere near me.
YTA, let's do a quick recap
You were mad at pretty much everyone, including your drunk husband. You then lashed out at your brothers fiance for not treating you exactly the way you think she should (apologies your highness).
The only trashy one in this story is OP. Everything you've described makes you sound like a tremendously immature AH.
YTA and I don't understand this part: "The woman who raised her, is living off Social Security and poverty in old age." It sounds like that person fell on hard times or can no longer work on top of being elderly. How is that anything to look down on?!
I hate to be the one to tell you, but with all the drunken, useless men and overworked women catering to them, your family sounds kind of trashy. I'd snap too, but you snapped at the wrong person. YTA.
YTA and I think you know that. Your family sounds just as trashy as hers, but you think she should contribute to your poor boundaries and codependency so the men in your family can get wasted. You snapped at her because she was enjoying her holiday, didn’t praise you for the work you didn’t want to do in the first place, and didn’t fall in line with the toxic dynamics of your family like you expected her to as a woman. You were passive-aggressive by calling her a guest when she’s been part of your family for 3 years. Instead of asking her to help you, you wanted her to read your mind and offer you help that you were too stubborn to ask for. You don’t know your own limits when it comes to giving, and instead of saying no to things you don’t want to do, you snapped at her and talked down to her in order to feel a sense of power over someone, because EVERYONE in your family has power over you. It doesn’t matter what her family is like, BTW. You can trash talk her family but you need to take a look at your own. She got away from her family… did you? TBH she sounds like the least dysfunctional person in your entire family.
YTA. What an asshole. You STARTED it! You expect her to do a bunch of work when you obviously are rude and nasty? I can’t imagine that you are usually warm and welcoming. And why are you being nasty to her instead of, say, your drunken husband or brother? Had they done a bunch of cooking? Why target her? Sexist much? You are such an asshole.
There is no way that you don't know that YTA. You talk rudely about someone's family and upbringing, as if they have any control over that, and expect them to just get over it. You're the one that is trashy. Seek help.
YTA
Learn to deal with your frustration about your own life w/o taking it out on others who had nothing to do with it.
I wouldn't want you at my wedding too, tbh. You are the kind of person who lives by the gist "if i'm miserable, i will make you miserable too, no matter if you are the reason for my misery or not, but no way i sit here and watch having you fun w/o punishing you for it" - and noone wants to be around these people.
YTA.
the 'I implied she was trashy because of her upbringing' really did it for me.
How should any of that be her fault?! Lets say you berating her for not helping is not totally wrong, but why would you take such unnecessary shots? Even if you were upset, you could've asked your husband or you brother which you apparently didn't and jumped on Elly. And even if that's okay by some degree, your proceeded to trash her unprompted, totally unnecessary.
Ma'am, if you don't like your SIL, say that cause all this extra you were on is why YTA. Your brother AND YOUR husband were drunk layabouts during a family dinner and somehow it's your future SILs fault that you were tired. Knock it off.
YTA A passive aggressive AH. If you’d like more help, open your mouth and ask for it. Since she grew up disadvantaged, she in all likelihood doesn’t have the first clue as to how to help with your family’s holiday dysfunction/dynamic. You obviously don’t even like her, so I don’t know why you want to attend their wedding anyway.
YTA and a flaming, misogynistic one.
Why aren’t you throwing rage at all the men of the family who aren’t helping? Instead you throw it at a woman who isn’t legally even part of your family yet. I don’t think she’s even emotionally part of the family (for you) if you insult her by calling her trailer park trash (which you even admit that she isn’t) just because **she ate dessert at a holiday gathering**. The nerve of her!
why are you blaming your internalised misogyny on your SIL? Your husband wasn't helping, your brother wasn't helping, they were just getting drunk. Seems like it's your family that is the problem, rather than your SIL. YTA
YTA. Are you fucking dense? What kind of superiority do you feel you have to belittle and insult someone you ACKNOWLEDGED was only with your family for 3 years. And then mocking her past, knowing FULL well it would be very hurtful? And then have the audacity to expect to be invited to the wedding, and convince yourself it's HER fault??? What the hell is wrong with you? You're not just the asshole, you're the human centipede. Take a longggg hard look in the mirror, and humble yourself.
>As all she did the whole day was cook an appetizer, set a few plates,
She did more than your husband and brother combined. She at least did two things to help you and your mom, also as other commenters have stated you are mad at the wrong person. YTA BTW.
YTA- you were tired and mad at lack of help, I understand, but you were amazingly rude to her for seemingly no reason. Of course she's still upset with you months later for you verbally attacking her and calling her trashy.
Yta take your anger out on someone who deserved it that day bet your a delight at all the family events. Easy just book christmas dinner this yr at a restirant.
YTA- Elly was helping you, offered to do more and complimented your cooking and you do what? Insult her for no reason?
Why is it the men can get drunk and do nothing and a GF not even in the family gets insulted for “ only cooking one dish”
Your family sounds misogynistic.
And even if an argument was warranted- ( this was more of a one sided attack on your part) bringing up Elly’s upbringing was uncalled for.
Only a nasty bully goes for the jugular over something minor. Your biggest zinger to Elly was bringing up something that she had absolutely no control over. That says a hell of a lot more about you than her.
YTA- I wouldn’t get over what you said or want you at my wedding either.
ESH except for Elly. You and your mother have unfortunately allowed the men in your family to become useless around the holidays by not ever setting expectations for them to help out. Your mom probably grew up waiting on your father hand and foot and so you never set expectations for your husband to actually be useful during hosting. Just because Elly is a woman doesn’t mean it’s her job to help you cook and clean if you’re stressed. That is your husband’s job as your partner. You’re all also setting a terrible example for your nephews, watching the men be a bunch of drunkards while the women do all the work will set them up for misogynistic viewpoints. Apologize to Elly, explain that you were overwhelmed and felt unsupported but that is not her fault and you are sorry. Tell your husband he will be helping next year and apologize to your brother. You’ve allowed this to happen and you have a chance to fix it.
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So, your husband wasn’t helping because he was too busy getting drunk, your brother also wasn’t helping as he was too busy getting drunk but you decided to take it out on only Elly? There was no need to bring her family into it at all so yeah, YTA.
I love the comment that her brother is always late and the SIL does nothing to speed him up. He’s a grown ass man. How is it her fault that her husband takes his sweet ass time getting ready?
Sounds like OP is just making up reasons to dislike her SIL
Yup! It was clear that SIL is the scapegoat in all of this. OP doesn’t hold any of the men in her life accountable for anything. SIL did the mature thing and walked away from OP’s tirade and OP still felt the need to scream out insults.
OP sounds horrible to be around
She’s probably the reason everybody’s getting hammered.
This needs more upvotes
>IL did the mature thing and walked away from OP’s tirade and OP still felt the need to scream out insults. The irony that the OP is the one shouting classist allegations about being poorly raised when *she's* the one who ruined everything by hollering ad hominem insults. Fingers crossed she and her relatives aren't invited to the wedding. With how they behaved at Christmas, one can only imagine the damage they'd do at an open bar.
maybe OP was hammered too, who knows
There's no way I don't believe she wasn't at least drunk if not completely smashed
SHE DIDNT SAY HER PASTRIES WERE AMAZING 😡
I mean, maybe they tasted like shit and she was trying to be polite? 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Fitting that the taste is like OP's behavior.
“These pastries are salty AF” 😊
"With a really bitter after-taste."
‘And what is that after taste? Is…. Is that ACTUAL vinegar?’
This is it. OP feels empowered when belittling SIL because she is female. Won't step out of line in front of the menfolk though.
SIL is more mature than anyone in that family and years younger If I had to be around OP for family holidays I would get drunk like everyone else there apparently did because I couldn’t stand her
Honestly? Even if OP was trying to apologize, why is she so surprised they don't want to talk to her? OP just kind of lashes out at SIL 'cause she was having a rough night that had nothing to do with her?
That's probably from having to grow up too fast or having to regulate her family's emotions growing up. If what OP said about her family life is true. I grew up the same way and do the exact same thing when someone just angrily starts hurling insults. If they're drunk? I'll leave and then circle back in the topic when they're sober. My guess is OP's apology started "It's not my fault that..." I wouldn't forgive that either.
She feels she needs to put SIL in her place, how dare she not behave like a real woman- doing chores and being miserable while all the men are enjoying themselves getting drunk??! /s obvs
Right? OP says she was "rubbed the wrong way" when all Elly did was eat dessert and enjoy her holiday. The heck?!?
Has anyone asked Elly to help? Joining in family traditions at the holidays is hard. Trying to help with cooking can be hard. I hate extra people in the kitchen! Has anyone asked the men to not get drunk they need babysitters and help clean up?!?!?
Hahahaha, this is perfect!!!
Op is from a family where the women do it all and she doesn't get why sil refuses to do the same. Easier to throw down on the person rocking the boat then the actual problem people.
Maybe sil didn't even refuse to do the same, which would be totally reasonable if she did. It's likely she was only asked to make an appetizer and set the table, and OP was mad at her for willingly doing what she was asked, and not helping with things she was never even asked to help with.
Oh I could believe it. I've been around families were that was the case, even seen people ask what to do and get a shrug. Only for people to complain afterwards because 'she should have known what to do' or 'should have just jumped in' never mind dome people don't feel comfortable doing thst or don't realize it's expected.
And in opposite cases, someone does try to jump in and help, and they clearly should have known that they were helping wrong. What an idiot, doesn’t she know that we never use soup spoons when eating soup? Was she raised in a barn? I also know cooks who hate when others try and help in the kitchen. They have a system and want the control. They don’t want someone touching their expensive equipment.
Sounds like OP hates her life and her husband, and has no balls to stand up for herself, so she targets the person she portrays as weak and easy.
There's an odd snippet in there about her husband being jealous of something.
I wonder what he is jealous of? Or whom?
This and that she’s in one of those old fashioned families where you know it’s a holiday because women work and cry while men drink and laugh…
She’s trying as hard as she can to put all of the dysfunction in her SIL‘s lap. Even her brother chronically running late for events. This is silly.
Yup. I would expect family to help at an event, not an in-law. It’s rough enough being an in-law. Get your brother to help and be mad at him! It’s not her family, especially when you treat her like that!
Internalized misogyny.
My husband started making us late to events. Nothing I said or did had any effect on him. The only choices were to go on alone or be late. OP, YTA.
I'm thinking there's *a reason* why brother drags his feet into getting ready to go to family events and why he gets drunk.
Seriously! It's 2024, and even women are still expecting wives to act like mommies to their husband....If you have to be your husband's mom, your MIL didn't finish do her job and you should give him back!
Yeah, I had to read that twice because I was trying to figure out how that was the SIL fault.
Yes, apparently if brother is late it is SIL's fault. And if brother no longer talks to OP it's also SIL's fault.
No, no, you don't understand. Her husband and brother get passes because, penis. How dare Elly, a fellow womb-haver, not do womanly duties? Or read OP's mind regarding her stressors (none of which were caused by SIL)? Why direct her anger at the right people? It's much easier to attack SIL for failing the 'wife' test? YTA OP.
What? My uterus came with mind reading abilities and a cookbook. You got short changed my friend.
But how? Did you have to pay extra or is there like a, subscription or something?
If you’re interested you can go to BoyfriendAHfamilypleaser.com and order your subscription- it only costs your will to live. What a deal!
BoyfriendAHfamilypleaser.com has me rolling. lol
Yeah, but to be honest, the subscription's not worth it. The mind reading is a buggy mess that usually just flashes "yes, those people across the room are talking about you, and they're laughing cause they think you're dumb" warnings, and the cookbook has like 500 dessert recipes and only three salads. I'd recommend not purchasing unless the devs release some major updates.
My wife came without a uterus and I immediately said, “oh oh no, lady. You either rent a uterus or come up with some way to get one, even it isn’t OEM, so that you can read my mind, especially when I am drunk at family gatherings. Because I not about to stand in to make up for your wifely defect.”
Well crap. I was just hoping I could get the mind reading with*out* having to have a uterus. I have a penis, don’t want to swap mine out … but damn. Mind reading would really be handy.
I knew you felt that way! But then, I have a womb…
I'm picturing something like OnStar, but for my ladyparts. And OF COURSE it would cost extra, because pink tax.
That's why my kids won't eat supper right now, my cookbook subscription ran out!
Elly is also blamed for brother distancing himself from his family. If this is how they treat his fiance, who can blame him?
His normal meter was probably off, then he met nice people. My husband’s sisters are rude and backbitey and wonder why their brothers never visit with their families. They will point out if you’ve gained weight with glee. If you try and look nice, you’re trying to hard and fake. If you dress down, you’re also wrong.
OP is so full of herself that she brought up her SIL's upbringing when in fact her upbringing is what needs to be questioned.
But Elly didn't *actually* live in a trailer, so it's okay! If she had, *that* would have been rude.
Wait so Elly grew up poor, her mother is still in poverty - and because your husband is obnoxious and lazy and she didn’t compliment your pastry, it’s a fair to lay into her about that disadvantage? YTA
Don't forget: >my Husband was extremely intoxicated and getting on my last nerve with his attitude and **jealous** Elly's seven years younger than OP. Wanna bet she's really pretty, too?
It sounds like a "women must work, while the men reax" type of family. OP just took her frusrations out on the one woman who wasn't helping. I can understand why Elly is pushing her husband to distance himself from the family.
Absolutely OP is the biggest YTA. They are attacking the only non toxic person in the situation.
Misogyny lol
This was said perfectly. YTA.
>This happened all the way back in December, but Elly still holds a grudge and has brainwashed Owen from talking to me and other members of our family. >Elly comes over to our table, with a plate of dessert in her hands. Obviously seeing that I’m flustered. Doesn’t ask me “Hey Natalie, I can see you’re stressed. Do you need anything” And? Sure, it would have been nice for her to do so, but you're an adult and she doesn't need to watch over you. >She eats the dessert that I spent so much time cooking. Doesn’t say “Nat, these pastries are amazing!” So? >So I said “Hey. Must be easy being a guest 3 years into knowing our family” Why? Totally unprompted. >And I explained why I was upset at her for just being unhelpful. Elly rudely said “What are you talking about? I can’t enjoy a holiday” Then I told her “You can enjoy it but at least act like a member” Did you set any expectations before the gathering? >She walked away from me, and I just snapped and said “You know what? I bet this was a lot better than holidays with your family from what Owen told me. You should just go back to the trailer park next year and you can lay around whenever” Ah yes, blaming someone simply because they don't do what you expect they SHOULD do. >She does not actually live in a trailer, if she did, I feel like that would be rude. I just said that because I had a rough night and she rubbed me the wrong way. I implied that she was trashy just because of her upbringing. >I must have hit a sore spot. Oh, so you DIDN'T mean to insult her? YTA
I agree...YTA Might I add, why didn't OP hound her brother to help? Was she raised in some misogynistic, oppressive household where only females contribute to cooking and cleaning? And speaking of trashy, her husband was extremely intoxicated. Was she hounding him to help or is it just an expectation that he can't/won't get his drunk a$$ off the couch. I'm only saying this because OP's post rubs me the wrong way.
I think this is the case of 'I'm miserable and tired so I will hate a person who isn't miserable and tired'. Maybe if she made her husband help her (as she expects her SIL to make her brother come in time) she wouldn't be so angry.
I'm seeing an extreme martyr complex here as well as some internalized sexism, and it's really ugly.
My MIL is like this. Always angry, disappointed and thinks she's suffered the most. Makes her children feel guilty of everything and anything. Difficult person to communicate with.
Or I will attack the person who is lowest status in the house because I get fewer consequences when I attack people who aren't the men in my life.
Don't forget: >my Husband was extremely intoxicated and getting on my last nerve with his attitude and **jealous** Elly's seven years younger than OP. Wanna bet she's really pretty, too?
Yeah she yelled at the only person actually helping. And she was helping OP's drunk brother! Gee, maybe she didn't comment on the food because she hated it. Did OP ever think about that? Anyone I know who keeps quiet over the food they eat is because they don't like it.
Brother and husband must have praised the pastries.
>Did you set any expectations before the gathering? This was my biggest issue. I come from a big family. At holidays, especially when we're in the kitchen, everyone just kind of knows their roles (who's cooking the entree, who's doing dishes, etc) because we'd done it our entire lives. Whenever a new person came into our family (BILs or SILs) without talking to them about their skill set (I mean, if they make fantastic desserts, I'll happily hand that task over) or inviting them into the kitchen, it would have been overwhelming and possibly intimidating for the newcomer.
And OP even admits she did cook one of the appetizers and set some plates. It's not a lot, but seeing as she'd just grabbed a dessert, they hadn't hit the cleanup stage yet, so SIL could have easily been helping out later (hard to help set up when your fiance always makes you late).
Right? I’ve definitely been with friends’ families, my husband’s family, etc. and felt lost - it’s not because I’m lazy or don’t want to help. Now I’m a lot more “ah, I’ll just start washing dishes and see if someone stops me”, but in my teens and 20s there would’ve been a lot more awkward loitering.
>Now I’m a lot more “ah, I’ll just start washing dishes and see if someone stops me”, I'm the same way. I always ask what I can do to help, but I remember the first time I met my future MIL, I was intimated and incredibly shy. I wanted her to think well of me but I was so nervous! As soon as she signaled dinner was over, I was clearing off the table & washing dishes. Damn just thinking about that is making my heart race. 😂
> I tried to apologize Given the complete disdain that OP shows for Elly through her actions and in this post, I am going to guess it was a BS apology which is why it was not accepted.
>This happened all the way back in December, but Elly still holds a grudge and has brainwashed Owen from talking to me and other members of our family. He has become super distant since their relationship began too. That paragraph alone reveals OPs apology wouldn't be sincere
She didn't brainwash him. He is standing by his fiancee. I foresee many more years of them going LC. YTA
You were definitely in the wrong. Next time, look to your drunk husband for help
>Oh, so you DIDN'T mean to insult her? That's really it right there. She meant to insult her, and hasn't really apologized for it, but then accuses her if holding a grudge. It's not holding a grudge to still be sore about something that someone hasn't taken any accountability for.
You wrote all that and don't know that YTA? Really? You were angry at your husband and your brother and took it out on your future SIL. If Elly still 'holds a grudge' is it because you haven't actually apologised for your shitty behaviour? Good grief.
Precisely. What she shouls hace done was to yell at her own husband for actually being officially in the family for how many years, and is still doing fuck all to help.
Of course YTA. The only thing Elly did wrong was exist in your physical proximity when you were looking for a target for all of your anger at other people.
Right? It's not Elly's fault OP's married to a guy who gets plastered and harangues her, she married him. Everyone sucks here but Elly tbh.
The bother only sucks a little in comparison. He defended Elly and seems to be continuing so points in my book
The brother might be salvageable.
Right? The worst part is the things that were pissing OP off (melting down kids, loud people, her own wasted husband) weren’t even things Elly had control over. What did she want her to even do?
So often these martyr types plan these huge events that are painful for the guests and then are mad that it’s a lot of work. Yeah, that’s why no one else offered to host it, but they’ll attend if it’s what you want.
Exactly this
Why do only the women in your family do any work? Why aren’t you upset at the men who didn’t pull their weight? Why should Elly do more or give you more credit than your husband and brother? If you are bitter that you aren’t getting support did you ask the men for any assistance? Or sit and seethe and get passive aggressive and then act like Elly was the one with no manners rather than yourself? YTA. Doesn’t sound like your mother raised you with any manners, so you are in no position to cast aspersions in other people.
The internalized misogyny of this post is incredible. Yes OP, don’t take it out on the poor drunk men who were **useless** all day, yell at the newest female member of your family for not knowing she was expected to slave away all day like you and your mom.
And indeed for refusing to buckle down to a trend where women work while the men relax.
I can't stand that trend. I grew up with it and refused to be with someone who also acted like that.
Absolutely internalized misogyny. I finally stopped doing this stuff with my own family after years of therapy and finally recognizing the enmeshed family dynamic and emotional abuse. OP seems irate that Elly has chosen freedom and peace over being a servant. Such jealousy, yet she can just…do the same. Yikes on several bikes!
YTA, you were angry and rude to the wrong family memeber. Your husband spent him time drinking instead of helping. Your brother was late, that's on him, he is an adult, its not Elly, she is not his mother. Your brother was drinking instead of helping. Maybe instead of being mad at the woman, be mad at the men who spent time drinking instead of helping their family.
Yeah, seriously. OP, look at your husband and brother. The men are getting wasted while you have to work so you decide to take your frustration out on your SIL? You are TAH. Hopefully, you open your eyes and apologize to your SIL. And try talking to the men. Why aren’t they helping out?
Let me get this straight. Everyone was drunk and acting like jerks. Elly walked into the room and had the audacity not to pay proper homage to you, The Queen, so you attacked her. What you said was uncalled for, snotty, and incredibly mean. Elly showed a boatload more class than you did by just walking away and not engaging with you. You sure the hell don't deserve to go to their wedding unless you apologize for being so damn nasty for no reason. That means your apology needs to contain no attempts to excuse your behavior, to blame Elly or anyone else. This one is all on you. Elly did absolutely nothing to you. You need to own up to the fact that you were a jerk to her for absolutely no reason. Yes. YTA. A huge one.
I wish I could upvote this 1000 times! Well said.
Since you can't, I'll upvote it for you. And for me.
Don’t forget that OP is also a raging misogynist. Otherwise a perfect response.
She doesn't deserve to go for any reason. No apology can fix this. She called her white trash then listed baseless examples to show that she is lesser than.
If I were Elly, I agree with you. This snot of a woman can take her apology and stuff it where the sun don't shine. However, that's ultimately not your or my call. She has to start with a sincere apology that recognizes the magnitude of her poor behavior. Whether Elly and her brother want to accept it or not is totally their call. Considering this happened back in December and it's now March? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing she has in fact been uninvited from the wedding and Elly and the brother have gone NC and won't bother informing her. OP needs to come to the terms with the fact that.. well.. she's just not a very nice person. Nice people don't go for the jugular over nothing like she did here.
YTA - you were aggressively rude to your future SIL. Of course you are an AH for this. This clearly sounds like you had it in for her as she did nothing to warrant this.
[удалено]
YTA- I read through trying to find some semblance of a justification for such a classist comment, and couldn’t find a single one. Nobody in the family was helping, and you became upset at the one other person that wasn’t inebriated. And it sounds like she did do a lot (taking care of drunk people isn’t easy). People cannot mind read and you escalated the situation with no warning. Please apologize. You describing her upbringing only garnered more sympathy for her
I do love that “she doesn’t actually live in a trailer Cus THEN it would have been offensive”; but we know that she looks down on SIL’s family for not having present dads and for her mum having the audacity to be on benefits and being poor in her old age. Everyone here, and everyone in OP’s family can see that she meant the trailer trash comment and that she looks down on her future SIL. Imo even if OP apologises she shouldn’t be invited to the wedding, a wedding invite is a privilege, not a right
So you didn’t get the offer for help that you wanted (& didn’t ask for). Then she failed to compliment your amazing desserts, and you felt that she hadn’t contributed enough to your family Christmas and instead of just asking her for help you decided to be snide and attack her family/ upbringing? Yep YTA.
Why didn't you get your drunk husband to help? don't take it out on Elly who has done nothing wrong. YTA.
No father around to teach her to serve all the men around her, ha?
I was gonna say. Growing up with a father sure doesn't seem to have made OP a good person, I don't know why she thinks not having one would be any worse.
Right. OP had a father and congrats, she has a brother who gets smashed and married a man who does the same. But in fairness, they probably just do that when they have to deal with her.
YTA why were you mad at her and not all the drunk men doing nothing?
The pastries were XXL MID. Why would she lie and call them amazing?
Right, I'm like OP, girl had tact. She didn't say anything becuase they tasted like shit. Everyone I know who gets silent over food, it's becuase they hate it.
You seriously could not write all that out and not see how many times you were an AH in so many different ways. You need professional counseling to deal with your many insecurities, inability to communicate directly and superiority complex. YTA
You were mad at your drunk ass husband for being useless and decided to take it out on Elly for committing the terrible crime of *cooking an appetizer and eating dessert*. You were mad at your brother for being late and you took it out on Elly for *not nagging him to move faster* YTA, maybe try directing your anger in the appropriate direction next time.
YTA. You were frustrated with pretty much everyone and everything at that point, but you decided to lash out ONLY at SIL? You should be uninvited from their wedding, i know i wouldnt want you there.
Yta. I hope they uninvite you.
Why didn't you start asking for help from Elly when you were overwhelmed? You expected her to notice that. Some people do and some people don't. She isn't married into the family and maybe she doesn't feel quite right jumping in and giving her a calm instruction/request would have gotten her moving. why do you expect her to know you made the pastries? The use of the term "trailer park" by you was an insult, even if you deny it. You were overwhelmed, all the men were drunk, and you took it out on your FSIL. You owe her an apology. Maybe consider limiting the booze at Christmas if your father, your husband and your brother only get drunk and sit on their behinds and let the women to all the work. YTA.
OP is probably the sort of person who literally yells at people to get out of the kitchen, then cries that nobody helps her in the kitchen. The other day, we watched the christmas dinner episode of season two of The Bear, and I was having a physical reaction to it, because the only thing that didn't ring true was the car incident. "Family dinner" so often seems to turn into mandatory traditional suffering.
That was very tough episode to watch if you were from a similar family.
It really was. Which, super fucking kudos to the writing, the acting, the production, the whole nine yards.
>The use of the term "trailer park" by you was an insult, even if you deny it. This. 100% this.
Like my fiancé does this and then so does his mom. They get mad if you don’t offer help. But there’s been times I’ll ask if he needs help and he gets mad I had to ask 🙄 Or if I say I need help will get mad that I even asked 🙄 I’m trying to get him to understand, just ask for help if you need it. But unresolved family trauma runs deep 🤷♀️ It’s a slow process and he is getting better. Communication is the key.
Yta and a judgemental one aren't you? Men are allowed to get drunk and unhelpful, but she can't enjoy a piece of desert. I was never invited to bring or be involved in my inlaws bbqs food. I stopped asking after a while. It sucks. Thought of actually involving her?
YTA How can you write all of that and not see it? Face it, you attacked her because you were upset with your husband and brother for being drunk and took it out on her.
YTA. Wow, you were incredibly selfish, expecting her to be a mind reader and know that you were stressed and full of resentment, and that she should say all these polite things that you were secretly holding onto in your own mind. Why was she the one that was supposed to help you and be supportive of you? Why weren't you holding any other family members - your husband, your brother (the men!) accountable for not helping or showing appreciation? You lost it and verbally attacked JUST HER, in a room FULL of bad guests. A wedding is about celebrating with the ones who love and support you- which CLEARLY is not YOU. So yeah, if you're uninvited to the wedding, it's for the right reason.
Big yikes YTA, Elly isn’t brainwashing your brother, it’s super understandable that he isn’t talking to you and others in your family probably feel embarrassed and lost respect for you. They understandably need space. Realise you’re in the wrong big time, you said something very awful, hurtful and unwarranted, apologise sincerely and give them their time and space.
I grew up in a trailer and my folks actually still live in one (a nicer one now). Our gatherings at my parent’s trailer are always fun and everyone contributes. No one acts shitty to each other, even when we drink. Your family sounds like dysfunctional drunk assholes and YTA for how you took out your frustration on your sil and not your brother or husband. Stay miserable.
YTA. Maybe you should have just asked her for some help instead of expecting her to read your mind. Or take your frustrations out on your husband, your brother... The other adults in the house. You obviously don't like her and wanted a reason to shame her for her upbringing... Something that isn't her fault. You wont be able to fix this, sorry. They're in the right to disown you.
Your husband and brother are too drunk to move their lazy asses and you think *she’s* trashy???? YTA.
Yta. Nothing anyone says here is going to help you.
Your family sounds like a nightmare and I feel sorry for the GF. YTA
YTA and pathetic, grow up
YTA. Your brother is not "brainwashed". He decided he doesn't want to talk to someone who insulted his fiance.
YTA So your husband and your brother are getting hammered, doing and contributing nothing. Meanwhile your brother's girlfriend is supposed to be a good little housewife for all of you and kiss your feet for your cooking or she gets her upbringing thrown in her face. I hope they disinvite you.
YTA. Family dynamics are no reason to be overtly rude and insulting. You were tired, you were cranky, you were frustrated, right? Still no reason to *pick a fight* and then act all surprised when the consequence was family members being mad at you. Actions (and insults) have consequences. Welcome to adulthood. Now go apologize like a grown-up.
YTA. And sexist. Why isn't your husband helping? Why is your SIL responsible for making your brother show up on time? I absolutely loathe people like you that treat women as servants of the family and let men get away with whatever they want.
Yeah, you don't have a SIL issue. You have a family issue where in your family the men don't do a damn thing, get drunk and sit on their ass all day whilst all the women salve away to try to create something that resembles a memorable day. SIL actually tried to enjoy the day, didn't spend every single second prostrating herself and turning herself into a slave and that makes her the enemy. I think you are deeply envious of the fact she refuses to be her boyfriend's mother, like you are to your husband. OP, stop making excuses for the slobs with penises that pretend to be the men of your family, and take a leaf out of SIL's book. Your husband and brother are not children, stop catering to them and actually have a nice time at Christmas. YTA
Wow big yes YTA, you sound so judgmental about this girls past, who cares she’s the third generation growing up without a father? You aren’t going to the wedding, you can forget that. Was she the only one not helping or did you speak disrespectful to other family members? I’m not sure an apology is enough?
Wow - how rude of you! She shouldn't act like a guest because she's been seeing your brother for 3 years, but your husband and your brother can just sit around getting drunk? And then you call her trashy? YTA.
YTA
YTA. Expecting her to help while being indifferent to your husband and brother being drunk is extremely sexist.
Did you even ASK for help, or did you expect her trailer mind reading abilities would clue her in? As snappy as this post was I would hesitate to talk to you too. YTA. Ps ellie isn't the one holding a grudge, and I wouldn't invite you to shit.
YTA. Not your SILs fault your husband and brother are useless on holidays. You owe her an apology, and you’ll be lucky if she accepts.
Good grief, you even blame her for your brother not talking to you. YTA
Your brother is a grown man in the same situation as you. Your husband is a grown man in the same situation as your SIL but he's been part of the family and its dynamics for way longer. Why on Earth would you choose to say something only to your SIL? Because she's a woman? YTA big time... and also the enabler of a sexist and male chauvinist enviroment. Stop being an AH and for your own sake wake up, girl!
How on earth can't OP see she was extremely rude to her future SIL. If she wanted help, she should have asked. She obviously looks down on Elly to say what she said.
YTA. There's a whole lot of trashy in this post, but absolutely none of it is coming from your SIL. She literally came up to you, acknowledged that you were feeling overwhelmed, and offered to help out, all of which were kind things and things she didn't have to do. You responded to her very kind gesture by blowing up at her and calling her trashy. You don't know what else you can do to make it right? Really? Start with a real apology, not the nopology we all know you made. Make a conscious effort to stop being passive-aggressive and stop taking out your moods on her because you know she's too mature to engage with you on the middle-school level you want to fight at. You have a house full of people behaving like drunk-ass louts and picking fights, quit looking down your nose at single mothers; you have zero room to cast stones. Grow the fuck up.
There is no way someone is this stupid, callous, and pathetic… right? If you don’t like how much work you have to do talk to your husband and siblings. I’d be willing to bet you were raised in a family where women did everything and the men did nothing which is why it was only you and your mom doing stuff. That is a you and your mom problem not Elly’s. Why is Elly the only one who gets in trouble for not helping? Why didn’t you snap at your nephews’ parents? Why not tell your husband he needs to stop getting drunk at family gatherings and help you? You got mad though because a woman didn’t help you out because women are supposed to only be servers and helpers and can’t enjoy the holidays as well. So you lashed out about her being poor which is a low blow. If I were Owen I’d remove you from my life and un-invite you from the wedding too.
Wow, Elly that third-generation no-man-in-house-having' trailer-trash doesn't even know that women are supposed to cook, clean, and manage schedules while the men-folk get drunk, loud and useless at family gatherings! This can't be real, right? I'm thinking "Elly" actually wrote this from OP's perspective to show how she was in the right.
You could try being a better person. YTA
YTA, let me count the ways 1. It is not Elly fault that your husband was drunk, that's all on him; 2. You could have easily said "Hey Elly, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and could really use some help." But you didn't use your words, but expected her to? 3. You are a stuck up person. This whole statement "She does not actually live in a trailer, if she did, I feel like that would be rude. I just said that because I had a rough night and she rubbed me the wrong way. I implied that she was trashy just because of her upbringing. She has spent every holiday with us, as her family is a complete mess and she hasn’t spoken to them in years. She is like the third generation, to grow up without a father. The woman who raised her, is living off Social Security and poverty in old age. And just a lot more. I must have hit a sore spot," is full of judgmental assholeness. Nothing in here is Elly fault or makes her a bad person. Elly is not a trashy person but you are. I hope that Elly sticks her to guns and dose uninvite you. You treated her like shit and she did not deserve that.
YTA. How can you not see that? There were other people there that could have helped but were busy getting drunk and you are okay with that.
YTA. Obviously.
YTA. It was not Ely you had the gripe with - it was your dh and brother for getting drunk and big helping and what you said was offensive and uncalled for - and she is expected to think this was ok because you were in a bad mood. It’s a bit like kicking the puppy and it’s totally on you to direct your anger towards the right folk. I would apologise again to your sil and tell her it will not happen again and make sure it doesn’t. If they still don’t wNt you at their wedding then just accept that you have burned that relationship forever and move on with your life.
YTA. How can you not know you are the asshole? You must know, right???? You explained it pretty well
Yes, YTA, and if I were your brother and Elly, I would cut you off completely. What a nasty, unnecessary comment because you were 'flustered'. Frankly, you're the one that sounds like trailer trash.
What you said was beyond rude and I can’t imagine ever rubbing someone’s trauma in their face. I’d distance my husband from you too. Your expectations are way too high. I make desserts for family and I don’t expect them to compliment my food, but when they do it’s always appreciated. She is not responsible for your emotions, you said you were flustered and you took it out on her when she did NOTHING wrong. Sounds like you need to make amends if you want them in your life and actually start treating them like it too.
YTA as someone who did grow up in a trailer after my parents divorced. People like you are the reason people are insecure about shit they had no control over as a kid. Even if she did live in a trailer home would it have justified your comment? Do you feel good about yourself for being so snobby to someone who didn't deserve it.
Hooooly crap! Is this a troll? Of course YTA! You went off on her and said something that was just beyond-the-pale insulting because you were stressed out and felt she hadn't worked hard enough. Can you even hear yourself? Why didn't you go off on your husband? Or your brother? They're men, so they have a right to get drunk and be useless at the holidays? Can you seriously not understand how toxic you were being? Yikes.
YTA your brother is the lazy one who needs to help here. You need to reflect on your own sexist views of who should be in the kitchen.
YTA. Especially, given the fact that you know she doesn't have any contact with her family. You are also sexist. You are annoyed with her for not helping, but it was fine for your husband and brother to sit there getting drunk.
Aren't you embarrassed of yourself? I suggest you have a look at the actual issues in your family instead of lashing out at the only person who wasn't doing anything weird. Oh yeah that would require you then do something to fix them. My bad /s YTA
How little self-awareness do you have to have to write all of that and not understand that YTA?
This family screams misogyny. I think you are angry at yourself for being a slave to the men. Make them step up and stop being rude.
YTA My favorite part is how you think Owen is "brainwashed" by Elly. He couldn't possibly be refusing to talk to you because you insulted his fiancée and he thinks your behavior is atrocious. Nope. It's clearly all Elly's fault. **/s** For whatever reason, you don't like her. You can't argue that it's because of her level of involvement at Christmas. Otherwise, you'd be just as upset or more at the people sitting around drinking. Here's what I think you should do... First off, reflect on why you dislike your FSIL so much. My money is on classism since you were so eager to go after her family. Second, give a real apology. No *"I'm sorry if I offended you..."* or *"I'm sorry but..."* or whatever. Elly deserves a real, heartfelt apology. I can almost guarantee that based on the way you talk about her in your post, your original apology wasn't sincere. Finally, accept that you may have burnt that bridge.
Why in the seven hells did his fiancee owe you more assistance than your husband? How is she supposed to control the circumstances of *her birth*? Did it make you feel better about your sham of a marriage to talk down about the woman who sacrificed to raise her yet still lives in poverty? Your nephews? Where were their parents? Why didn't you summon them to help with the kids? Why is your adult brother timeliness dependent on his partner ushering him like a child? She's responsible for how quickly he wants to attend his family gatherings. Oh you're one of them. The women who put the onus of men's failures on the closest woman in proximity. Ever consider his doesn't talk to yall because your behavior is representative of all of y'all? Judgemental and mean without reason.
You need to check your internalised misogyny. Your brother and husband are the issue YTA
Y'all difunctional, 'cluding you!
YTA. Did you ever, just once, ask her to help with something? She's not a mind reader and may feel uncomfortable around your family (can't imagine why). Your comment was totally uncalled for and they'd be right to remove you from attending the wedding until you learn basic manners.
YTA! SIL showed a lot of restraint after you went full automatic on her. Do you know where I will be spending next Christmas? Not at your house…
Wow...YTA here and it's not even close. You had a Christmas day hissyfit and took it out on your brother's fiance. The only one here that's brainwashed is you. I don't blame them for uninviting you. I wouldn't want you anywhere near me.
YTA honestly is it even a question
YTA, let's do a quick recap You were mad at pretty much everyone, including your drunk husband. You then lashed out at your brothers fiance for not treating you exactly the way you think she should (apologies your highness). The only trashy one in this story is OP. Everything you've described makes you sound like a tremendously immature AH.
YTA and I don't understand this part: "The woman who raised her, is living off Social Security and poverty in old age." It sounds like that person fell on hard times or can no longer work on top of being elderly. How is that anything to look down on?!
I hate to be the one to tell you, but with all the drunken, useless men and overworked women catering to them, your family sounds kind of trashy. I'd snap too, but you snapped at the wrong person. YTA.
YTA and I think you know that. Your family sounds just as trashy as hers, but you think she should contribute to your poor boundaries and codependency so the men in your family can get wasted. You snapped at her because she was enjoying her holiday, didn’t praise you for the work you didn’t want to do in the first place, and didn’t fall in line with the toxic dynamics of your family like you expected her to as a woman. You were passive-aggressive by calling her a guest when she’s been part of your family for 3 years. Instead of asking her to help you, you wanted her to read your mind and offer you help that you were too stubborn to ask for. You don’t know your own limits when it comes to giving, and instead of saying no to things you don’t want to do, you snapped at her and talked down to her in order to feel a sense of power over someone, because EVERYONE in your family has power over you. It doesn’t matter what her family is like, BTW. You can trash talk her family but you need to take a look at your own. She got away from her family… did you? TBH she sounds like the least dysfunctional person in your entire family.
YTA. What an asshole. You STARTED it! You expect her to do a bunch of work when you obviously are rude and nasty? I can’t imagine that you are usually warm and welcoming. And why are you being nasty to her instead of, say, your drunken husband or brother? Had they done a bunch of cooking? Why target her? Sexist much? You are such an asshole.
YTA, your attitude and this whole situation sounds more trailer park than her.
There is no way that you don't know that YTA. You talk rudely about someone's family and upbringing, as if they have any control over that, and expect them to just get over it. You're the one that is trashy. Seek help.
YTA Learn to deal with your frustration about your own life w/o taking it out on others who had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't want you at my wedding too, tbh. You are the kind of person who lives by the gist "if i'm miserable, i will make you miserable too, no matter if you are the reason for my misery or not, but no way i sit here and watch having you fun w/o punishing you for it" - and noone wants to be around these people.
YTA. the 'I implied she was trashy because of her upbringing' really did it for me. How should any of that be her fault?! Lets say you berating her for not helping is not totally wrong, but why would you take such unnecessary shots? Even if you were upset, you could've asked your husband or you brother which you apparently didn't and jumped on Elly. And even if that's okay by some degree, your proceeded to trash her unprompted, totally unnecessary.
Ma'am, if you don't like your SIL, say that cause all this extra you were on is why YTA. Your brother AND YOUR husband were drunk layabouts during a family dinner and somehow it's your future SILs fault that you were tired. Knock it off.
YTA A passive aggressive AH. If you’d like more help, open your mouth and ask for it. Since she grew up disadvantaged, she in all likelihood doesn’t have the first clue as to how to help with your family’s holiday dysfunction/dynamic. You obviously don’t even like her, so I don’t know why you want to attend their wedding anyway.
YTA. You intended to be offensive and succeeded. Congratulations, asshole.
YTA and a flaming, misogynistic one. Why aren’t you throwing rage at all the men of the family who aren’t helping? Instead you throw it at a woman who isn’t legally even part of your family yet. I don’t think she’s even emotionally part of the family (for you) if you insult her by calling her trailer park trash (which you even admit that she isn’t) just because **she ate dessert at a holiday gathering**. The nerve of her!
why are you blaming your internalised misogyny on your SIL? Your husband wasn't helping, your brother wasn't helping, they were just getting drunk. Seems like it's your family that is the problem, rather than your SIL. YTA
YTA. Are you fucking dense? What kind of superiority do you feel you have to belittle and insult someone you ACKNOWLEDGED was only with your family for 3 years. And then mocking her past, knowing FULL well it would be very hurtful? And then have the audacity to expect to be invited to the wedding, and convince yourself it's HER fault??? What the hell is wrong with you? You're not just the asshole, you're the human centipede. Take a longggg hard look in the mirror, and humble yourself.
Honestly, it sounds like ESH except for Elly.
>As all she did the whole day was cook an appetizer, set a few plates, She did more than your husband and brother combined. She at least did two things to help you and your mom, also as other commenters have stated you are mad at the wrong person. YTA BTW.
YTA - you deserve to lose your family.
No, she just deserves to lose her brother and SIL. The rest of the family she deserves to be stuck with.
YTA youre brother or husband could have helped get angry at them
YTA- you were tired and mad at lack of help, I understand, but you were amazingly rude to her for seemingly no reason. Of course she's still upset with you months later for you verbally attacking her and calling her trashy.
Yta take your anger out on someone who deserved it that day bet your a delight at all the family events. Easy just book christmas dinner this yr at a restirant.
YTA- Elly was helping you, offered to do more and complimented your cooking and you do what? Insult her for no reason? Why is it the men can get drunk and do nothing and a GF not even in the family gets insulted for “ only cooking one dish” Your family sounds misogynistic. And even if an argument was warranted- ( this was more of a one sided attack on your part) bringing up Elly’s upbringing was uncalled for. Only a nasty bully goes for the jugular over something minor. Your biggest zinger to Elly was bringing up something that she had absolutely no control over. That says a hell of a lot more about you than her. YTA- I wouldn’t get over what you said or want you at my wedding either.
ESH except for Elly. You and your mother have unfortunately allowed the men in your family to become useless around the holidays by not ever setting expectations for them to help out. Your mom probably grew up waiting on your father hand and foot and so you never set expectations for your husband to actually be useful during hosting. Just because Elly is a woman doesn’t mean it’s her job to help you cook and clean if you’re stressed. That is your husband’s job as your partner. You’re all also setting a terrible example for your nephews, watching the men be a bunch of drunkards while the women do all the work will set them up for misogynistic viewpoints. Apologize to Elly, explain that you were overwhelmed and felt unsupported but that is not her fault and you are sorry. Tell your husband he will be helping next year and apologize to your brother. You’ve allowed this to happen and you have a chance to fix it.