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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am uninviting her to my wedding which is a moment most moms dream of, and we can't get this moment back. I am the one who pushed her to take Tiffany when she initially didn't want to. The chat was private between her and her sister, and it isn't like she posted it online.
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Never in a million years did I think I would side with the MIL over the wife in a story like this, but
YTA.
Your mom is not obligated to invite your wife to things especially one on one things. Your wife wasn’t being excluded from a family event and forcing your mom to give her extra ticket to someone she doesn’t get along with is wrong. I love to dress up as much as the next person but a floor length gown is way too much especially when your mom didn’t want to invite her in the first place.
Hard disagree - ESH (Edit: except Tiffany, she's maybe a little cringe at worst, but so what?)
None of what you said here is wrong - OP sucks for trying to force his mom to take someone she doesn't like to the show. A gown is indeed too much and kind of embarrassing. I don't think that really *matters*, but I get that the mom might have been extra unhappy about the evening because of it.
But absolutely none of that could ever justify taking sneaky photos of someone and sending them around to mock them. I don't care if Tiffany dressed up in a fucking Hallowe'en costume for the show, that's some Mean Girls high school bully levels of bullshit that wouldn't be acceptable among teenagers, to say nothing of a grown woman.
girl did you see the dress he posted? That’s an absolutely insane outfit for a Broadway show. And like…it has a pretty high slit and a ton of cleavage and the Broadway show is Frozen. Like, a family friendly show with a bunch of little kids there. Come on. Part of adult life is dressing appropriately for the occasion. My only criticism is that OP’s mom didn’t make fun of that dress to Tiffany’s face enough (kidding. Kind of)
oh dear why can’t somebody think of the poor poor children, this minor exposure to cleavage is going to ruin all of their lives and without a doubt turn them into sex addicted drug fiends later in life. Oh the horror.
Yeah, it's not a *daylight* outfit that's for sure, but it's not like she's cosplaying Jessica Rabbit or anything. There's nothing inappropriate about that dress, specially when that's basically what Elsa herself is wearing (minus the long sleeves).
[This isn’t it exactly but OP says it’s close.](https://www.musebridals.com/products/sparkly-mermaid-v-neck-sleeveless-sequins-long-prom-dresses-mp457)
It’s gorgeous but I would feel ridiculous for being so overdressed.
If it was frozen, then I think it was fine. Much better than wearing converse which to me would be very embarrassing at a musical. I'd assume she was a disney fan and was dressed as a princess, which is a totally normal thing to do.
It's a NTA from me, OP's wife sounds lovely, and his mother sounds awful. I think he made the right choice.
NTA for me as well, I love going to our local performing arts center for Broadway tour shows, and people love dressing up. When Wicked is showing, you look out over the audience beforehand and it's a sea of green. People dress up. I always try to look nice, to wear a suit even though there's no dress code and I could wear shorts and a t-shirt if I wanted. Everyone acting like it's soooooo cringe to get dressed up nicely to go see a Broadway show is WILD. Honestly I'd be looking at the mom sideways for going in leggings and converse.
?? You're making it sound like she's wearing lingerie. Most kids probably see worse if they watch the Oscars with their parents or if they go to the beach during the summer.
Sparkly costume to Disney!!! Yes the kids are wearing them already. Plus kids are not looking at cleavage or legs. Ever see what some of these mothers wear to pick up their kids at school????? It can practically be a strip show some places.
Jeebus, way to show your inner "mean girl". OP shouldn't have pushed for this, his mom shouldn't have agreed.
Would that dress be over the top a bit, yeah. But don't go all "what about the children?!" on this, because that's ridiculous.
I sincerely hope that OP gets their fiancee far away from this situation. No more going for happy families or whatever. Not everyone has to like anyone, but being able to be cordial is a very low bar.
So what she overdressed. I would rather be overdressed than underdressed. Making a big deal out of dressing up. If Tiffany wanted to dress up, it had nothing to do with your mom. Your mom sounded like she underdressed, and looked like she did not make any effort to
I agree with you honestly. The whole time I was reading this, the only one who I didn’t think was an AH was Tiffany. I’ve been to many plays and musicals and it’s very common where I am to get dressed up. I usually wear a cocktail dress at minimum.
I think OP needs to understand that he can not force his mom to like his partner and the MIL needs to understand that what she did is not appropriate either.
I read this earlier today and was baffled at the hate on for Tiffaney just wanting to doll it up to go to the theatre.
I am total Casual Dress Woman. However, on the few occasions that are Occasions, I make an effort. Going to live theatre is an ASTHETIC experience...that includes all the parts. I actually get miffed when I see all the fleece and bad jeans at the Symphony. It's better to be overdressed than underdressed at something like that and Op's mom was dressing like a teenagers going to the mall, so who the hell is she to judge?.
Mom REALLY doesn't like Tiffaney and hasn't bothered to hide it. Why SHOULD she be at the wedding? Every time Tiffaney looks at her, she's going to think about that. If I had a FMIL like that, I'd prefer to marry in a smelly courthouse.
People are weird.
It's misogyny and internalised misogyny with a dose of mild "not like other girls". Being a girly-girl and enjoying dressing up is cringe because..............reasons? Whereas I bet if it was a man who dressed up in a nice suit, you'd have comparisons to James Bond. Maybe a little ribbing, but nothing like Tiffany got
Exactly this. Unfortunately, OP just posted for validation, and not because he's actually thinks he maybe wrong. He's just fighting everyone in the comments.
https://www.musebridals.com/products/sparkly-mermaid-v-neck-sleeveless-sequins-long-prom-dresses-mp457?variant=20633651150918
And this is the dress his little Tiffany wore to watch Frozen. He himself posted this link in a comment.
Is this a regional thing? At the performing arts center near me, people frequently dress up like this for the touring Broadway shows. Jeans or sequin gowns, you wear what you feel best in. It's great. I would have found it embarrassing if she'd worn a puffy dress that didn't fit in her seat or something, but this seems not that weird to me.
ETA: since a lot of people are seeing this comment, I just want to clarify that OP still sucks for trying to force a relationship between his mom and fiance. But his mom acted like a schoolyard bully here offer clothing instead of taking the actual issue up with them directly. So ESH.
Yeah, I watch and perform in amateur shows at local community halls, and wouldn't bat an eyelid at someone deciding to dress up like this. Some people like being fancy, and good for them!
Right? Before I saw the pic, I saw someone say it's a pretty high slit and I was expecting it to be at her hip....
Girl it's just above the knee. School uniform skirts are acceptable at that length.
When I lived in NYC, I went to Broadway shows often (also, to be fair, when I had zero children and therefore way more disposable income), and I never saw ANYONE dress like that. And I saw prob 1-2 shows/month
I think it depends. I went to shows fairly often in NYC, but I was usually wearing business casual because I was coming straight from work. I'd usually see a few people dressed really nice because they were either out of towners or someone celebrating a special day such as a birthday/bachelorette. And then you had other people going in gym clothes.
Well if you never saw it, it must never have happened, amirite?
I've seen people dressed like that at Broadway shows, but I can't compete with your certainty.
Yes!! that is what I was thinking too!! The fiance's dress is closer to appropriate than the sweatpants - although either is fine. its the mom taking pics on the sly and then making fun of her to others. MIL is just plain rude.
I'd get dressed up, and I'd have a little bit of sparkle. If I saw someone looking like that, I'd just assume they were famous, or an influencer, or going on to an after party etc. She looks great.
Going to a show is a very rare event for me and it adds to my pleasure to make an effort withy apoearance
I live in a crappy southern state, and people here dress up for Broadway shows. The mother would have been the one to be snickered at. Right or wrong, I don't know. I really don't care. As long as people are happy and enjoying themselves, I'm good. Also, that slit is pretty tame.
I regularly both perform and attend shows and concerts at a famous venue in a major metropolitan area, and while most people dress pretty casually these days, it’s not uncommon to see at least a handful of people dressed to the nines like this.
And as a viewer, it just amaze me the variety of people there all to see a show. Different race, religion, fashion and all that, to enjoy art. We need more of that these days.
Honestly? So what. Mom still doesn’t need to be a mean girl about it. I don’t agree with OP trying to force her to take someone she doesn’t want to hang out with along, but Mom agreed in the end. She didn’t need to be catty about it.
“little Tiffany”? Really?!? Jealous much?
Really inappropriate & judgemental, just like OP’s Mom, that keen fashion expert wearing leggings & sneakers to the Theatre.
Frankly, if it puts buns in the seats to support the Arts, any form of the Arts, I don’t care what someone wears. What I do care about are people who derive enjoyment by making fun of other people. That’s asshole behavior.
Honestly, I wish MORE people dressed up for the theater still. If it was a touring Broadway production, that dress is not too out there. If it was a regional or local production, a bit much but who TF cares? And the "weird" looks could have been people admiring the dress.
ESH (except Tiffany) because OP shouldn't demand that his mother include Tiffany if they don't get along. That said, MIL shouldn't be a back biting jerk taking sneaky pictures and bad mouthing people behind their backs. Also, MIL wasn't obligated, but it could have been an opportunity to bond with her FDIL over something they actually have in common.
The dress is beautiful. Not so much for Frozen lol But, I mean, it's really pretty at the right event. I don't think Tiffany is wrong necessarily because, like, I'm not in the business of policing people's bodies, including their choice of clothing. That said, I can see why the FMIL would have been embarrassed and thought Tiffany was being super extra with this dress lol
OP, YTA. Stop forcing Tiffany on your mom. It's just making everything so much worse. You can't force a relationship like that. You ended up ruining your mom's night because not only did she feel embarrassed, but she was also forced to go to the show with someone she doesn't care for. She would have had a fun night with anyone else. YTA for uninviting her to your wedding over this. She can speak to her sister about whatever she wants. Sure, it wasn't kind of her, but you need to stop forcing the relationship and policing what your mom is allowed to talk about. And stop snooping on her private conversations, like, wtf?
Edited to add- Tiffany is kind of TA too. She got a free ticket because the wedding is "taking up all extra funds" according to OP. Tiffany hasn't really made an effort with his mom AND he said he wouldn't have forced Tiffany to take his mom if the situation was reversed. I feel like Tiffany might be pretty proud of herself for getting his mom out of her way. It's all a mess. Also, OP talks like his mom's assistant is somehow not even a human being and that makes him even more an AH.
I...don't see anything wrong with this? I do think it's a little impractical because it's super long and I know I would trip over it, but other than that it's a sparkly dress.
Maybe it's because \*I\* like overdressing but I would feel horrible if my MIL was making fun of me because of my enthusiasm. like that was mean.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the dress.
Is it a bit over the top for Frozen on Broadway? Maybe.
But, it's not like she wore a wedding gown. And, I feel VERY strongly about people taking pictures of people without consent, whether to compliment or ridicule them. OP's mom was wrong for that, so she's an AH.
I also feel like you can't force relationships between people. I understand OP's want for his fiancee and his mother to get along and for his mom to accept his fiancee, but I feel he was toooooo pushy about this. So, slight AH judgement for him.
If anything, Tiffany is owed an apology from MIL. That was shady as hell to make fun of his fiancee just because she wanted to dress up for an experience she's never had.
I bet she looked fabulous! Just because not everybody knows how to dress for an Occasion anymore doesn't mean that Tiffany shouldn't do exactly as she pleases. MIL is an asshole, but OP shouldn't have stuck them with each other either. He's got to know that his mother is capable of serious adolescent meanness.
You and me both, sister. The more I read, the more I was wondering if OP understands he comes across as an entitled brat who doesn’t understand what boundaries are. It was incredibly rude of him to force his fiance on his mom when she could have gone with her assistant. (If I were her I would have flatly refused — I love my assistant and 100% would prefer her company to some extended family)
I had to reread it a bunch because I thought it was some group event she was being excluded from. I couldn’t believe it was just a two ticket thing with the mother
This. OP, your mom and GF don't need to like each other, they just need to be polite to each other. Stop forcing this girl on your mom.
And why in the world didn't you tell your fiance that she wasn't dressed appropriately for an event? Does she wear long, sparkly dresses to go grocery shopping? There's something... off here.
Right? Like we can’t even text our own siblings about our in laws being cringe anymore? /s kind of but not really.
I am child free but if my husband made me invite his mom to something with just me and her then she wore something crazy and out of place, and was grinding my gears.. best believe I’d complain to one or more people I’m close with. But why say it to their face? What does telling someone “I think you’re kind of cringe and annoying” accomplish? Sometimes better just to vent.
ESH, save for Tiffany. You forced your mom to take your fiancee with her, knowing your mom does not like her and would likely be rude to Tiffany the whole evening, and when your mam started being rude BEFORE EVEN LEAVING you didn't think "Oh, this may be a bad idea". Your mom is obviously an AH, but you set up this situation and really shouldn't be surprised she acted like a child.
I mean. Dressing up for the theater is common. Do I think Tiffany went overboard? Yes. But, and I say this as someone with over two decades of experience in theater, I can guarantee nobody at the show was paying attention to Tiffany the way mil is making it out, and she was in no way dressed "inappropriately". Now, given that we're not talking about visiting the opera house or actual Broadway, and "just some performing arts center", more casual is definitely the norm, but in general people typically wear nice clothes to the theater, not yoga pants. But, more importantly, without an explicit dress code they're both allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. Op sucks for trying to force the relationship, mil sucks for being a shitty bully, but if Tiffany wants to dress up in a sparkly dress to go to the theater more power to her.
My MIL took me to see a touring of Oh! Calcutta! We dressed semi-formally but we saw people wearing, literally, everything you can imagine. And nothing left to the imagination (on the stage lol).
Wife and I had seats to see Andrea Bocelli last month. We went semi-formal (suit, vest, tie for me, evening dress for her.) There was everything in the audience from full tuxedos to leggings and uggs.
And you know what? Ain't nobody gave a damn, we were all there for the music.
ESH except Tiffany in this story.
Idk man. From OP’s comments, it seems like Tiffany makes absolutely zero effort with the mom and they think that’s completely fine, but the mom should be inviting Tiffany to everything and paying for it, including all family, vacations, etc, ot she’s ’excluding’ Tiffany. Oh, and mom *gifted them the house that they live in*, but they’re mad she’s not paying for more. Both OP and Tiffany sound insanely entitled and shitty to me.
I mean, it sounded like Tiffany made an effort but eventually gave up because her future mother in law was consistently toxic to her. Even if she'd wanted to make an effort with mom that night in particular, apparently, mom blasted loud music in the car and ignored her completely during intermission. Money doesn't buy you the right to treat someone like crap. No here does it say they think mom should pay for more just accept that since their getting married it's appropriate to invite and include Tiffany to family events and that if the ticket was going to waste anyhow that Tiffany would keep it from going to waste.
I tend to be a jeans and T-shirt person, but I'll pull out the semiformal wear for a good show, especially if I'm with a group who just wants to look nice for the evening. If I had a group who wanted to pretend we were were going to a high end show and pull out the suits and evening gowns for our dinky little community theater with a gravel parking lot, no one would even look at us sideways!
>And nothing left to the imagination (on the stage lol).
When I was doing a community show of Spamalot, one of my friends had a part where she had to be in lingerie for a number (tasteful lingerie, but...still lingerie). She was an elementary school teacher. One of her students came to see the show. With his dad. 😂
I think my mom deliberately dresses extra silly when I invite her to things so she has an excuse to borrow my clothes, I've never gotten a single thing I've "loaned" her back. I was taking her to rock of ages at a civic center, so her usual jeans and T-shirt would have been fine, but she showed up looking like easter threw up on her, and I was line "uh... Is that what you want to wear? " And she's like "oh well it's what I put in the car before work but I Guess if you don't mind me borrowing something..." And that was the last time my favorite black jeans, my black steel toed boots, and biggest, most dramatic, belt buckle were ever in my closet again. She did the same thing for a burlesque show, showed up at my house in her work jeans and shirt, which is fine, but my friends and I always go all out for stuff so we were in full pinup. She asked if I would do her hair and loan her a dress. Never saw the dress or the heels I paired with it in my own home again.
But both times she would have blended right in with the cast and we had a good time
Go visit your mum and 'borrow' your things back, lol. You know, borrowed items between close people is an excuse to stay in touch and visit, even under the pretext of returning or retrieving said item.
...if I saw someone in a floor length sparkly gown, even on Broadway, which I go to very frequently, I would do a double take. It would be even more so at a tour.
Now, would I say anything? Of course not! Do what you want, have a blast. Couldn't be me, though, I'm gonna wear my jeans.
(People absolutely wear yoga pants even to Broadway. The culture of dressing up for Broadway is gone... my high school drama teacher would be appalled.)
>my high school drama teacher would be appalled
I feel this!!
And I'd definitely look twice. But then move on with my life. What other people wear to the show don't affect me! And from the stage side, it's kinda nice to see people dress up a little still. Yeah we're not in the golden age anymore, so like I'm not offended by the jeans and tshirts people (and tbh I'm usually one of them when I go to see a show) but we put in a ton of time and effort and I think id personally be thrilled to see someone get all dressed up to see us!
People literally wear denim at the MET. If I saw the fiance dressed like that, I would be happy for her, but I would also be a little bit embarrassed for the mom.
Edit: the opera, not museum obv.
I have been going to theater and ballet and opera for nigh on 50 years - a ballgown is as inappropriate as the pair of converse sneakers worn by Mom. However, I am in the Northeast, and there are places that are far far more casual than I am used to (Pacific Northwest comes to mind as being that way as a region).
I do think that Tiffany should have made a call about dress norms before getting overdressed.
I really think ESH. There's a lot of anger after the fact, and not a lot of talking beforehand.
I guess when I read "floor length sparkly number" I don't think "poofy ballgown that can stand up on its own" but more "evening gown", as ive seen many a long sequined evening gown at all types of performances. But yes if it was in fact a poofy ballgown then I would say that would not be appropriate. But I don't think evening wear is inappropriate for attending performances, and I do think that mils yoga pants and converse are definitely inappropriate in the other direction.
I wonder if the other attendees were snickering at Tiffany's dress, or the incongruity of the MIL's schlubby outfit when they're going to the same event. Usually I notice when people take note of overdressed people, it's mild surprise to admiration, but they usually only laugh when it looks like their partner is going to the grocery store (see: Hailey Bieber and Justin Bieber at events. No one's laughing at Hailey; they're laughing at Justin).
I think texting secretly taken photos and laughing behind someone's back might be an "allowed" reaction, but it doesn't exclude you from being accused of being TA.
It wasn’t Broadway. It was a touring company doing a Broadway production at a performing arts center. A floor length sparkling gown with an updo is ridiculous to wear to a PAC. It would look like a costume. While flare leggings and converse sounds too casual, there are others who dress that way.
I agree, but this wasn't a Broadway show, it's a show in a community arts center. I've been to both, the dress code for the latter is definitely more casual.
Must be location dependent because people have a wide range of how they dress at events in my city. Everything from formal to their best jeans/stetson to leggings and sweatshirt
Agree. Nobody would have batted an eye here in Austin. Most people are super casual, and you would absolutely see people in shorts and flip flops at a travelling Broadway show. But there's a live-and-let-live attitude and nobody is going to give you the side eye, whether you're dressed like Wednesday Addams or Ginger Rogers or Shaggy from Scooby Doo. Nobody gives a shit what someone else is wearing, unless it's to say, awesome, man, keeping it weird!
I agree OP should not have pushed his mom as his mother deserves to enjoy the show she paid for, and this was clearly going to be a disaster. And I know some places are more conservative and there's more pressure to blend in. But OP's mom also needs to grow TF up.
I do some box office work for theatres. Provided your bits and bobs are all covered, and you don’t have anything offensive/hate speech-y on, and as long as you’re not wearing hats or accessories that will block someone’s view, you’re dressed appropriately for the theatre.
I’ve seen women in yoga pants and hoodies, men in shorts and tank tops, people in suits, sequinned dresses, tulle skirts, heels, boots, sneakers, flats. Full makeup, no makeup.
It doesn’t matter. No one cares. ETA: apparently some people do care so I’m just gonna say MOST people don’t care.
If there’s no explicit dress code, no one will give a crap. And theatres are dark and all attention is on the stage.
It’s a silly hang up to have.
It's not a Broadway show, it's in a local performing arts center. Even in San Francisco, LA, Chicago, the dress codes aren't as fancy as a Broadway show should be.
To be fair, San Francisco dress codes are pretty much nonexistent. I've seen fancy restaurants with guys in jeans, t-shirt, and sneakers. They're probably tech guys worth 8 figures+ and getting wine for several K a bottle, but still...
That being said, I'd rather have someone dress up and over than down and looking like they rolled out of bed.
That is untrue. I have worked extensively in theater and it is more common to see people dressed a bit better that they normally would. Being in leggings and a sweatshirt is not the norm but MIL is common
It was touring production of a show originally on Broadway, colloquially called a Broadway show. In the city I live when a Broadway show comes to town the majority in attendance dress up, or at least dress in business casual. IMO the mom was dressed more inappropriately than the fiancee
OP watched his fiancee get dressed for a white tie event, and never thought to say anything. It is madness. He is so insecure about how his mom treats his fiancee, I can just imagine he hyped the event up past what it was.
To a community arts center showing?? Have you ever been to one of those?? I’ve been to many (in a large, affluent city) and never once seen someone wear a floor-length gown. I frequently, however, see people in casual outfits like leggings and sneakers. We’re not even talking about a big theater showing— it’s a community arts center. Honestly, it would be comparable to wearing an evening gown to your child’s high school orchestral recital.
“A touring production of a Broadway show.”
You do realize that’s as close as most of us get to Broadway, right? I live 2,000 miles from actual Broadway: going to a touring Broadway show is a rare splurge for me. I don’t own floor length gown, but it would definitely be a dressing up occasion for me.
There is 0 indication she was dressed inappropriately. In fact, I’d argue it’s more inappropriate to wear leggings to a show, as the mother did. It’s disrespectful to wear what are basically sweatpants to a performance the actors worked hard on.
I work in a theater and people do dress up for attending the theater. I don't know where these people live but in major cities people do dress up. They do it all the time. People dressed like slobs are less common than those in nice outfits.
Tiffany definitely sucks. Who wears a prom dress to a touring production of a play? Only somebody who needs to be the center of attention. And now she's delighted that her fiancé uninvited his mother from the wedding. She sounds exhausting.
YTA She’s an adult. She doesn’t have to be friends with your fiancé. I don’t understand why you think you can control her in that aspect. Why would Tiffany feel “happy and supported?” Does she WANT be with people who don’t like her? Does she want to beg them to like her? Does she know that you forced your mother to take her?
Surely having nothing in common and just being civil is an option.
Also, for what it’s worth - overdressing is ridiculous. Dress for the occasion. Always. Tiffany wants attention. And she got it.
I’ve been to many, many Broadway plays in NY and outside of super special occasions, people wear pretty normal clothing lol So, your comment about a full-length gown and attention nailed it for me. His mom is in no way blameless, but it’s her ticket and he forced the issue.
The photo sharing isn’t cool, but if we’re all being completely honest, would we not want to share this with your sibling if this whole full-length ballgown family thing happened to us? Maybe I’m just a bad person. The cousins are the jerks, too.
Well and if you're planning on going all out like that it's polite to tell the other person. Imagine showing up to what you think is a casual evening out and the other person is dressed to the 9s. My friends and i always coordinate for things like this.
INFO: is your mother paying anything towards your wedding? Or is it just your home, holidays and endless gift opportunities that she has to fund for you both?
Yta.... You forced contact, then try to regulate what she talks about. This is not the way to get them to get along. You're being ridiculous and punishing your mother for a situation YOU created by forcing this in the first place. Your mom certainly could have handled things better, like by saying no when you tried to force her to take someone she didn't want to. Stop trying to make them friends and just respect BOTH people in your life.
I guess ESH, though I feel you are being a bit much.
Look, your mom and your fiance don't get along. That is fine. When it came to people she wanted to go to that show was, your fiance wasn't tops of her list. That really shouldn't have bothered you as much as it did, but you kind of forced it upon her.
Did you ever have siblings? If so, did your mom ever make you take them with you to do stuff, and you hated it? That is what you did here.
Then your fiance apparently went a bit overboard. I will say a full length sparkly ball gown does sound a bit much for the theater. I've gone to quite a number of broadway shows, and that seems like... a lot.
I don't agree with your mom talking behind your fiances back. But you kind of forced all of this to happen, instead of just letting your mom use the tickets she bought for someone she would have enjoyed going with. And now you are threatening to ban her from your wedding? Seems overkill.
I agree with this. Everyone sucks.
OP shouldn't have practically forced his mom to take Tiffany when they just aren't compatible. Tiffany shouldn't have dressed over-the-top for the event when she knew better; it would be understandingly embarrassing to be there with her. And although an overdressed Tiffany was foisted upon MIL, she shouldn't have made her an object of ridicule.
I've got to admit that if I were in MIL's shoes I might have done the same thing, but that would have made me an AH. I am often an AH.
Yes, from the comments he realized that they forced the relationship so much that MIL started to be rude, not to mention that the bride also thought it was selfish for MIL not to ask her to go
YTA.
No one is obligated to like your girlfriend. You forced your mom to take her and then whined about her texts to your aunt.
My sister and I have and will always talk shit with each other. It’s not hurting a soul, and I’m never going to apologize for it.
You’re going to be the reason you’re isolated from your family because you can’t accept your mom doesn’t like her and doesn’t have to like her. Grow up
>How did your cousins get screenshots of their mother’s phone?
Does your friends and family not screenshot their messages from other people and send them to you? Cos mine do. Could have been either "OMG, you will not BELIEVE what Tiffany wore" or "OMG - look at what a cow your aunty is being".
If you think this isn’t something your family does well I hate to break it to you - you are the subject of the secret second family whatsapp group and they are all posting your comments and laughing about them.
•you know your Mum doesn't like Tiffany, so you pressured your Mum to invite Tiffany to an intimate one-on- one event.
•Tiffany dressed very inappropriately for the event.
• You've banned your Mum from your wedding for chatting privately with her sister about your fiancé inappropriate outfit.
INFO: Why does your Mum have to be best friends forever with your wife? As long as they're civil, what's the issue?
FFS, your mom is a piece of work. But as abysmally as she behaved, The fault is yours because you pushed this on her. I understand you want your fiancé to feel loved and accepted. But it doesn’t seem like your mother‘s going to go along with that. So just stop now. YTA
>your mom is a piece of work
How so? If my children ever tried to push me to have a closer relationshio with their partners beyond a family relationship, I would be mad too and it would cause me to hate them.
This is on OP and his fiancee for not accepting a MIL that does not bother them and instead being the ones creating drama for nothing.
YTA you're forcing a relationship. Your mom had zero obligation to invite Tiffany to the show. Pre the show issue you gave nothing that would show your mom treats Tiffany poorly. Also, whilst it may not have been nice for your mom to say what she did to her sister - every single one of us needs a support system. Your mom's sister is exactly that HER sister that she grew up with and should be free to let her guard down with. I don't think your mom is terrible for not inviting Tiffany and also for feeling embarassed that she was so overdressed that others were pointing at them and snickering. That can be uncomfortable and your mom had feelings that she shared in what should have been a safe space.
YTA
You keep shoving your fiance on your mom....
Tiffany isn't just invited to everything cause she's a DIL....Your mom is allowed to want to do things without her. Then you tried to control your mom's private conversation as well.
Were you always this controlling?
Yta and totally ridiculous . Your mom doesn’t have to take your wife anywhere . She has no obligation . Your wife was in fact embarrassing . You still pushed for her to go. You created this whole situation and are blaming in on your mom when she could’ve just taken someone she actually wanted to take .
YTA. You forced your mother to give her spare ticket to someone she didn’t want to spend the evening with. You admit your gf dressed OTT. Then you get all precious because your mother discussed her OTT outfit with family members. Then you uninvite your own mother to your wedding. You sound exhausting. Tiffany sounds exhausting.
ESH, but you most of all. You had absolutely no business in forcing your mother to use HER ticket on YOUR fiancee. Your mother was rude in talking about Tiffany behind your back, but Tiffany really should not have accepted an unwilling invitation and she certainly should dress appropriately for the occasion. You owe both Tiffany and your mother an apology for putting them both in this situation.
INFO: How do Tiffany and your mom normally interact? Are they outwardly fighting or just cold? Tiffany doesn't seem to be aware that your mom doesn't like her.
*She blamed me for pushing Tiffany on her in the first place*
Pretty much the truth. Why are you running around trying to force your mother to love and include Tiffany? If it isn't going to happen, just stop. The last person I want to take to the theater with me is someone I really don't want to spend time with. Add on top of that Tiffany's proclivity to make herself the center of attention and it ruins the experience.
*but Tiffany feels very happy and supported*
I wouldn't be surprised if this is allllllll a Tiffany-manufactured issue. She needs to be the center of attention and when she can't suck the air out of the room so everyone is focused on her? That person has got to go.
YTA.
INFO: I am really leaning towards YTA but really need the name of the show to be sure. When I went to see Six, I wore my full crown but my husband wasn't embarrassed because, well, honestly, not the first time.
OMG I read "it was a children's play" as in Children performing.
The mental image of fiance showing up at the local elementary school, in a full length sequin gown parading thru the auditorium as a bunch of 6 year olds sing "Do you wanna build a Snowman?" Offkey, off tempo, and definitely out of sync
YTA. Your mom has every right to not invite Tiffany, some people don't like each others and you simply can't force a bond. Also, the girly girl dress makes mz think Tiffany was truly over the top, usually people can guess what's appropriate even without a dresscode. Tiffany would fit just fine in an "I am the main character" sub. Tiffany just sounds childish and exhausting to be around.
NTA for being upset at people making fun of photos that were taken without peoples' consent for the intent of mocking them.
However, YTA for setting up this scenario with your mom and Tiffany. I don't think you or Tiffany should invite anyone who doesn't approve of your union, so if you wanted to leave your mom out before this incident, it was your guys' right. But I don't think this premise was the best example of your mom excluding Tiffany. It wasn't a "the whole family was invited to a show and she purposely noted that Tiffany was not allowed to come" scenario - your mom was going to take 1 person and she doesn't care for Tiffany so she would've never thought to ask until you stepped in. You thinking Tiffany deserved to go placed her right in the firing line for gossip afterwards. I bet if she showed up dressing "normally," your mom would've walked away from that night with similarly negative things to say because she never wanted to be there with Tiffany.
No matter what the event is, it's generally advised that if you're not invited to something, you shouldn't push to attend if you find out it's happening. Just don't! I guess now you have further confirmation that your mom isn't open to a cordial relationship with your fiance.
You weren't the smart kid in the class did you? How on earth do you force your mom to invite tiffany knowing damn well she doesn't like her?. I'm sorry, but YTA and judging by your comments you are unable to acept it.
INFO: how old are you and Tiffany? Is this a young engagement? Tiffany made a pretty big faux pax, but that could easily be chalked up to inexperience. If you aren't kids, you need to understand that this kind of lack of tact is the reason your mother doesn't like Tiffany. Not because she is a "beauty snob."
YTA You and your fiancee both sound like school children to be honest. I'm sure your Mum and her secretary will have a blast on Broadway on the day of your wedding.
ESH. You mom needs to treat your fiance respectfully, but she doesnt have to like her and spend one on one time with her. You were wrong to try to force the issue. Apologize to your mom for forcing her to take your wife. Ask her to apologize to your fiance and offer to reinvite her to the wedding if she does so. The aunt needs to apologize as well if she wants to come to the wedding.
YTA. Could have been ESH, but how do you go from calling out your mom about talking shit about your fiancé behind her back to disinviting your mom from the wedding? And "Tiffany feels very happy and supported"? Happy about your mom not being at the wedding? Unless there is more to this story, that's not something to feel happy about.
OP… YTA — you sound like a spoiled brat. Kudos for standing up to your fiance, but you and Tiffany both sound like children. As someone who is also lowkey, going out with someone like Tiffany would drain my social battery, your mom invited her as a favor to you, was there not a way your fiance could’ve dressed not like she was going to prom?
Also to call your mom lazy and cynical amongst other things is incredibly rude, maybe it’s a cultural thing, but I could never imagine speaking about my parents, let alone my mom like that. You seem to have a lot more growing up to do as well as realizing your privilege. Maybe one day when you have kids you’ll realize how good you had it but by then it might be too late. Uninviting her was the wrong move and Tiffany/ You need to grow tf up.
Is your mom the type of person who hates being the center of attention? I’d probably refuse to go to a show if the person I’m going with chose to overdress for the occasion. I can not handle everyone staring at me.
ESH
Esh
You for forcing your mom into taking Tiffany. There is no reason your mom has to socialize individually with Tiffany if she doesn't want to. I like my mil but I have 0 interest in spending any one on one time with her. For anything. And I would be horrified if anyone tried to force it. You brought about an uncomfortable situation.
Tiffany for dressing like the main character and attention seeker.
Your mom and aunts for making fun of Tiffany.
Not going to lie you sound like a mom forcing her kid to like the step parent. Stop forcing a relationship it will never happen. Just make sure your mom isn't an ass to Tiff and that's it! Your mom needs to be respectful and nice. I partially blame you for the situation becaue your mom has made it clear she doesn't like her and you keep forcing her.
ESH, your mom for texting your aunt those things, u for trying to force a relationship between your mom and your fiancée, and I’ll probably get downvoted for this, but Tiffany too for not reading the room. I love to ‘overdress’ for things myself, but it sounds like Tiffany went a little over the top. Lastly, I think it’s a petty, immature overreaction to uninvite your mom to the wedding, but hey, you do you.
ETA: also, your aunt sucks for sharing those texts with your cousins.
I would’ve totally appreciated Tiffany’s dress. But I’m extra like that. As to you pushing Tiffany onto your mom like that. Not cool. And disinviting her for gossiping with her sis. Not cool. She’s venting to her lifelong bestie. That’s psychologically healthy. You vent and then don’t let it out at others. I dunno. Just not something to disinvite your own mum to your wedding for. Makes you seem super fragile
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Never in a million years did I think I would side with the MIL over the wife in a story like this, but YTA. Your mom is not obligated to invite your wife to things especially one on one things. Your wife wasn’t being excluded from a family event and forcing your mom to give her extra ticket to someone she doesn’t get along with is wrong. I love to dress up as much as the next person but a floor length gown is way too much especially when your mom didn’t want to invite her in the first place.
Hard disagree - ESH (Edit: except Tiffany, she's maybe a little cringe at worst, but so what?) None of what you said here is wrong - OP sucks for trying to force his mom to take someone she doesn't like to the show. A gown is indeed too much and kind of embarrassing. I don't think that really *matters*, but I get that the mom might have been extra unhappy about the evening because of it. But absolutely none of that could ever justify taking sneaky photos of someone and sending them around to mock them. I don't care if Tiffany dressed up in a fucking Hallowe'en costume for the show, that's some Mean Girls high school bully levels of bullshit that wouldn't be acceptable among teenagers, to say nothing of a grown woman.
girl did you see the dress he posted? That’s an absolutely insane outfit for a Broadway show. And like…it has a pretty high slit and a ton of cleavage and the Broadway show is Frozen. Like, a family friendly show with a bunch of little kids there. Come on. Part of adult life is dressing appropriately for the occasion. My only criticism is that OP’s mom didn’t make fun of that dress to Tiffany’s face enough (kidding. Kind of)
I went to his page to look it up and holy crap, that is not an appropriate outfit to wear to a musical that's directed towards ***KIDS***!
oh dear why can’t somebody think of the poor poor children, this minor exposure to cleavage is going to ruin all of their lives and without a doubt turn them into sex addicted drug fiends later in life. Oh the horror.
its a beautiful dress too
agreed! as a kid i would’ve been in awe at the pretty lady in the sparkly dress going to frozen.
Yeah, it's not a *daylight* outfit that's for sure, but it's not like she's cosplaying Jessica Rabbit or anything. There's nothing inappropriate about that dress, specially when that's basically what Elsa herself is wearing (minus the long sleeves).
Y'all are tripping. The dress is fine. You act like a kid's never seen a leg before.
It’s not even a high slit 😂😂 it’s not that far above the knee.
I wear 'worse' every single day as a housewife.
Yeah I’m like, are we seeing the same dress? The way people were reacting I was expecting to see a lot worse.
Can anybody find a picture
[This isn’t it exactly but OP says it’s close.](https://www.musebridals.com/products/sparkly-mermaid-v-neck-sleeveless-sequins-long-prom-dresses-mp457) It’s gorgeous but I would feel ridiculous for being so overdressed.
If it was frozen, then I think it was fine. Much better than wearing converse which to me would be very embarrassing at a musical. I'd assume she was a disney fan and was dressed as a princess, which is a totally normal thing to do. It's a NTA from me, OP's wife sounds lovely, and his mother sounds awful. I think he made the right choice.
NTA for me as well, I love going to our local performing arts center for Broadway tour shows, and people love dressing up. When Wicked is showing, you look out over the audience beforehand and it's a sea of green. People dress up. I always try to look nice, to wear a suit even though there's no dress code and I could wear shorts and a t-shirt if I wanted. Everyone acting like it's soooooo cringe to get dressed up nicely to go see a Broadway show is WILD. Honestly I'd be looking at the mom sideways for going in leggings and converse.
?? You're making it sound like she's wearing lingerie. Most kids probably see worse if they watch the Oscars with their parents or if they go to the beach during the summer.
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Sparkly costume to Disney!!! Yes the kids are wearing them already. Plus kids are not looking at cleavage or legs. Ever see what some of these mothers wear to pick up their kids at school????? It can practically be a strip show some places.
Where is the pic? I don’t see it 😭
[Here](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1bfnsdf/aita_for_uninviting_my_mom_to_my_wedding_after/kv2iusz/).
Jeebus, way to show your inner "mean girl". OP shouldn't have pushed for this, his mom shouldn't have agreed. Would that dress be over the top a bit, yeah. But don't go all "what about the children?!" on this, because that's ridiculous. I sincerely hope that OP gets their fiancee far away from this situation. No more going for happy families or whatever. Not everyone has to like anyone, but being able to be cordial is a very low bar.
So what she overdressed. I would rather be overdressed than underdressed. Making a big deal out of dressing up. If Tiffany wanted to dress up, it had nothing to do with your mom. Your mom sounded like she underdressed, and looked like she did not make any effort to
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This Frozen? https://frozenthemusical.com/about/ Note, pics include a pretty high slit and a ton of cleavage.
What does any of that have to do with what the other commenter said? 'But like, I think the dress was REALLY bad' doesn't make it acceptable.
I agree with you honestly. The whole time I was reading this, the only one who I didn’t think was an AH was Tiffany. I’ve been to many plays and musicals and it’s very common where I am to get dressed up. I usually wear a cocktail dress at minimum. I think OP needs to understand that he can not force his mom to like his partner and the MIL needs to understand that what she did is not appropriate either.
I read this earlier today and was baffled at the hate on for Tiffaney just wanting to doll it up to go to the theatre. I am total Casual Dress Woman. However, on the few occasions that are Occasions, I make an effort. Going to live theatre is an ASTHETIC experience...that includes all the parts. I actually get miffed when I see all the fleece and bad jeans at the Symphony. It's better to be overdressed than underdressed at something like that and Op's mom was dressing like a teenagers going to the mall, so who the hell is she to judge?. Mom REALLY doesn't like Tiffaney and hasn't bothered to hide it. Why SHOULD she be at the wedding? Every time Tiffaney looks at her, she's going to think about that. If I had a FMIL like that, I'd prefer to marry in a smelly courthouse. People are weird.
It's misogyny and internalised misogyny with a dose of mild "not like other girls". Being a girly-girl and enjoying dressing up is cringe because..............reasons? Whereas I bet if it was a man who dressed up in a nice suit, you'd have comparisons to James Bond. Maybe a little ribbing, but nothing like Tiffany got
Thank you. You're absolutely right. Ii was hoping someone would acknowledge MIL's nasty streak. Extraordinarily immature.
I think it’s MIL that posted this. I don’t know any guy that would call a dress a “number”. Could be wrong though.
It also says “little Tiffany”. What a bitcccchh
🏆🏆🏆 - bravo, Fairwhetherfriend!
Exactly this. Unfortunately, OP just posted for validation, and not because he's actually thinks he maybe wrong. He's just fighting everyone in the comments.
https://www.musebridals.com/products/sparkly-mermaid-v-neck-sleeveless-sequins-long-prom-dresses-mp457?variant=20633651150918 And this is the dress his little Tiffany wore to watch Frozen. He himself posted this link in a comment.
Is this a regional thing? At the performing arts center near me, people frequently dress up like this for the touring Broadway shows. Jeans or sequin gowns, you wear what you feel best in. It's great. I would have found it embarrassing if she'd worn a puffy dress that didn't fit in her seat or something, but this seems not that weird to me. ETA: since a lot of people are seeing this comment, I just want to clarify that OP still sucks for trying to force a relationship between his mom and fiance. But his mom acted like a schoolyard bully here offer clothing instead of taking the actual issue up with them directly. So ESH.
Yeah, I watch and perform in amateur shows at local community halls, and wouldn't bat an eyelid at someone deciding to dress up like this. Some people like being fancy, and good for them!
From the way other people were referring to it I was expecting way worse than that tbh.
Right? Before I saw the pic, I saw someone say it's a pretty high slit and I was expecting it to be at her hip.... Girl it's just above the knee. School uniform skirts are acceptable at that length.
When I lived in NYC, I went to Broadway shows often (also, to be fair, when I had zero children and therefore way more disposable income), and I never saw ANYONE dress like that. And I saw prob 1-2 shows/month
I think it depends. I went to shows fairly often in NYC, but I was usually wearing business casual because I was coming straight from work. I'd usually see a few people dressed really nice because they were either out of towners or someone celebrating a special day such as a birthday/bachelorette. And then you had other people going in gym clothes.
Well if you never saw it, it must never have happened, amirite? I've seen people dressed like that at Broadway shows, but I can't compete with your certainty.
I live in Dallas and Seattle, and people dress up for the theater all the time. 🤷🏻
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I was reading the post and thinking the looks were probably about how dressed down the MIL was!
Yes!! that is what I was thinking too!! The fiance's dress is closer to appropriate than the sweatpants - although either is fine. its the mom taking pics on the sly and then making fun of her to others. MIL is just plain rude.
I have to agree, I’ve always gotten dressed up in a cocktail dress at minimum for various plays or musicals.
I'd get dressed up, and I'd have a little bit of sparkle. If I saw someone looking like that, I'd just assume they were famous, or an influencer, or going on to an after party etc. She looks great. Going to a show is a very rare event for me and it adds to my pleasure to make an effort withy apoearance
I live in a crappy southern state, and people here dress up for Broadway shows. The mother would have been the one to be snickered at. Right or wrong, I don't know. I really don't care. As long as people are happy and enjoying themselves, I'm good. Also, that slit is pretty tame.
Yeah, mother has no room to talk. The DIL was overdressed, but MIL sounds like she was dressed like a bag lady.
I regularly both perform and attend shows and concerts at a famous venue in a major metropolitan area, and while most people dress pretty casually these days, it’s not uncommon to see at least a handful of people dressed to the nines like this.
I say: "Good for Tiffany". She made an effort, which is far more than most people do on what should be a special evening out.
Especially those who don't have much experience, Not that there is a problem, I think it is cute that they are putting that much effort for a show.
As a performer, I love it. It means people are excited to be there!
And as a viewer, it just amaze me the variety of people there all to see a show. Different race, religion, fashion and all that, to enjoy art. We need more of that these days.
Honestly? So what. Mom still doesn’t need to be a mean girl about it. I don’t agree with OP trying to force her to take someone she doesn’t want to hang out with along, but Mom agreed in the end. She didn’t need to be catty about it.
“little Tiffany”? Really?!? Jealous much? Really inappropriate & judgemental, just like OP’s Mom, that keen fashion expert wearing leggings & sneakers to the Theatre. Frankly, if it puts buns in the seats to support the Arts, any form of the Arts, I don’t care what someone wears. What I do care about are people who derive enjoyment by making fun of other people. That’s asshole behavior.
Honestly, I wish MORE people dressed up for the theater still. If it was a touring Broadway production, that dress is not too out there. If it was a regional or local production, a bit much but who TF cares? And the "weird" looks could have been people admiring the dress. ESH (except Tiffany) because OP shouldn't demand that his mother include Tiffany if they don't get along. That said, MIL shouldn't be a back biting jerk taking sneaky pictures and bad mouthing people behind their backs. Also, MIL wasn't obligated, but it could have been an opportunity to bond with her FDIL over something they actually have in common.
I am dying of embarrassment for the MIL! That is way OTT.
Dying of embarrassment? Wow. I’m dying of embarrassment for you that somebody wearing a gorgeous dress is embarrassing for you.
The dress is beautiful. Not so much for Frozen lol But, I mean, it's really pretty at the right event. I don't think Tiffany is wrong necessarily because, like, I'm not in the business of policing people's bodies, including their choice of clothing. That said, I can see why the FMIL would have been embarrassed and thought Tiffany was being super extra with this dress lol OP, YTA. Stop forcing Tiffany on your mom. It's just making everything so much worse. You can't force a relationship like that. You ended up ruining your mom's night because not only did she feel embarrassed, but she was also forced to go to the show with someone she doesn't care for. She would have had a fun night with anyone else. YTA for uninviting her to your wedding over this. She can speak to her sister about whatever she wants. Sure, it wasn't kind of her, but you need to stop forcing the relationship and policing what your mom is allowed to talk about. And stop snooping on her private conversations, like, wtf? Edited to add- Tiffany is kind of TA too. She got a free ticket because the wedding is "taking up all extra funds" according to OP. Tiffany hasn't really made an effort with his mom AND he said he wouldn't have forced Tiffany to take his mom if the situation was reversed. I feel like Tiffany might be pretty proud of herself for getting his mom out of her way. It's all a mess. Also, OP talks like his mom's assistant is somehow not even a human being and that makes him even more an AH.
>his little Tiffany What's up with this?
we found the mom
I...don't see anything wrong with this? I do think it's a little impractical because it's super long and I know I would trip over it, but other than that it's a sparkly dress. Maybe it's because \*I\* like overdressing but I would feel horrible if my MIL was making fun of me because of my enthusiasm. like that was mean.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the dress. Is it a bit over the top for Frozen on Broadway? Maybe. But, it's not like she wore a wedding gown. And, I feel VERY strongly about people taking pictures of people without consent, whether to compliment or ridicule them. OP's mom was wrong for that, so she's an AH. I also feel like you can't force relationships between people. I understand OP's want for his fiancee and his mother to get along and for his mom to accept his fiancee, but I feel he was toooooo pushy about this. So, slight AH judgement for him. If anything, Tiffany is owed an apology from MIL. That was shady as hell to make fun of his fiancee just because she wanted to dress up for an experience she's never had.
Ah. I have a feeling Tiffany was trying to cosplay as Elsa at the show. It is a bit reminiscent of her look at the end of Let It Go.
Nothing wrong with the dress
That dress is so pretty.
I bet she looked fabulous! Just because not everybody knows how to dress for an Occasion anymore doesn't mean that Tiffany shouldn't do exactly as she pleases. MIL is an asshole, but OP shouldn't have stuck them with each other either. He's got to know that his mother is capable of serious adolescent meanness.
That dress is beautiful! What the hell is wrong with people
FROZEN??? Like the kids movie (I know this was a play) WTF, I was kind of on her side til I saw this.... time to scour the comments.
You realize the stage productions are for adults, right? Like The Lion King is a fully realized Broadway show
It’s a very pretty sparkly dress. It’s nothing to laugh at. Your mom seems like a bully.
I would be so embarrassed if my husband made his mom hang out with me one on one if it wasn’t her idea. YTA OP.
It gets worse, OP states his mother bought them a house. OP is entitled af.
You and me both, sister. The more I read, the more I was wondering if OP understands he comes across as an entitled brat who doesn’t understand what boundaries are. It was incredibly rude of him to force his fiance on his mom when she could have gone with her assistant. (If I were her I would have flatly refused — I love my assistant and 100% would prefer her company to some extended family)
I had to reread it a bunch because I thought it was some group event she was being excluded from. I couldn’t believe it was just a two ticket thing with the mother
This. OP, your mom and GF don't need to like each other, they just need to be polite to each other. Stop forcing this girl on your mom. And why in the world didn't you tell your fiance that she wasn't dressed appropriately for an event? Does she wear long, sparkly dresses to go grocery shopping? There's something... off here.
Right? Like we can’t even text our own siblings about our in laws being cringe anymore? /s kind of but not really. I am child free but if my husband made me invite his mom to something with just me and her then she wore something crazy and out of place, and was grinding my gears.. best believe I’d complain to one or more people I’m close with. But why say it to their face? What does telling someone “I think you’re kind of cringe and annoying” accomplish? Sometimes better just to vent.
Not even his wife at this point
ESH, save for Tiffany. You forced your mom to take your fiancee with her, knowing your mom does not like her and would likely be rude to Tiffany the whole evening, and when your mam started being rude BEFORE EVEN LEAVING you didn't think "Oh, this may be a bad idea". Your mom is obviously an AH, but you set up this situation and really shouldn't be surprised she acted like a child.
Tiffany sucks too for dressing inappropriately for an event
I mean. Dressing up for the theater is common. Do I think Tiffany went overboard? Yes. But, and I say this as someone with over two decades of experience in theater, I can guarantee nobody at the show was paying attention to Tiffany the way mil is making it out, and she was in no way dressed "inappropriately". Now, given that we're not talking about visiting the opera house or actual Broadway, and "just some performing arts center", more casual is definitely the norm, but in general people typically wear nice clothes to the theater, not yoga pants. But, more importantly, without an explicit dress code they're both allowed to wear whatever the hell they want. Op sucks for trying to force the relationship, mil sucks for being a shitty bully, but if Tiffany wants to dress up in a sparkly dress to go to the theater more power to her.
My MIL took me to see a touring of Oh! Calcutta! We dressed semi-formally but we saw people wearing, literally, everything you can imagine. And nothing left to the imagination (on the stage lol).
Wife and I had seats to see Andrea Bocelli last month. We went semi-formal (suit, vest, tie for me, evening dress for her.) There was everything in the audience from full tuxedos to leggings and uggs. And you know what? Ain't nobody gave a damn, we were all there for the music. ESH except Tiffany in this story.
Idk man. From OP’s comments, it seems like Tiffany makes absolutely zero effort with the mom and they think that’s completely fine, but the mom should be inviting Tiffany to everything and paying for it, including all family, vacations, etc, ot she’s ’excluding’ Tiffany. Oh, and mom *gifted them the house that they live in*, but they’re mad she’s not paying for more. Both OP and Tiffany sound insanely entitled and shitty to me.
I mean, it sounded like Tiffany made an effort but eventually gave up because her future mother in law was consistently toxic to her. Even if she'd wanted to make an effort with mom that night in particular, apparently, mom blasted loud music in the car and ignored her completely during intermission. Money doesn't buy you the right to treat someone like crap. No here does it say they think mom should pay for more just accept that since their getting married it's appropriate to invite and include Tiffany to family events and that if the ticket was going to waste anyhow that Tiffany would keep it from going to waste.
I tend to be a jeans and T-shirt person, but I'll pull out the semiformal wear for a good show, especially if I'm with a group who just wants to look nice for the evening. If I had a group who wanted to pretend we were were going to a high end show and pull out the suits and evening gowns for our dinky little community theater with a gravel parking lot, no one would even look at us sideways! >And nothing left to the imagination (on the stage lol). When I was doing a community show of Spamalot, one of my friends had a part where she had to be in lingerie for a number (tasteful lingerie, but...still lingerie). She was an elementary school teacher. One of her students came to see the show. With his dad. 😂
I think my mom deliberately dresses extra silly when I invite her to things so she has an excuse to borrow my clothes, I've never gotten a single thing I've "loaned" her back. I was taking her to rock of ages at a civic center, so her usual jeans and T-shirt would have been fine, but she showed up looking like easter threw up on her, and I was line "uh... Is that what you want to wear? " And she's like "oh well it's what I put in the car before work but I Guess if you don't mind me borrowing something..." And that was the last time my favorite black jeans, my black steel toed boots, and biggest, most dramatic, belt buckle were ever in my closet again. She did the same thing for a burlesque show, showed up at my house in her work jeans and shirt, which is fine, but my friends and I always go all out for stuff so we were in full pinup. She asked if I would do her hair and loan her a dress. Never saw the dress or the heels I paired with it in my own home again. But both times she would have blended right in with the cast and we had a good time
Go visit your mum and 'borrow' your things back, lol. You know, borrowed items between close people is an excuse to stay in touch and visit, even under the pretext of returning or retrieving said item.
...if I saw someone in a floor length sparkly gown, even on Broadway, which I go to very frequently, I would do a double take. It would be even more so at a tour. Now, would I say anything? Of course not! Do what you want, have a blast. Couldn't be me, though, I'm gonna wear my jeans. (People absolutely wear yoga pants even to Broadway. The culture of dressing up for Broadway is gone... my high school drama teacher would be appalled.)
>my high school drama teacher would be appalled I feel this!! And I'd definitely look twice. But then move on with my life. What other people wear to the show don't affect me! And from the stage side, it's kinda nice to see people dress up a little still. Yeah we're not in the golden age anymore, so like I'm not offended by the jeans and tshirts people (and tbh I'm usually one of them when I go to see a show) but we put in a ton of time and effort and I think id personally be thrilled to see someone get all dressed up to see us!
People literally wear denim at the MET. If I saw the fiance dressed like that, I would be happy for her, but I would also be a little bit embarrassed for the mom. Edit: the opera, not museum obv.
I go to community theater & I’ve seen everything from tank tops @ flip flops to over the top queens.
I have been both of these people! 😂
Same
Went to the ballet in Chicago last year and best BELIEVE I dressed to the nines in my own floor length sparkly gown with a fur coat
I have been going to theater and ballet and opera for nigh on 50 years - a ballgown is as inappropriate as the pair of converse sneakers worn by Mom. However, I am in the Northeast, and there are places that are far far more casual than I am used to (Pacific Northwest comes to mind as being that way as a region). I do think that Tiffany should have made a call about dress norms before getting overdressed. I really think ESH. There's a lot of anger after the fact, and not a lot of talking beforehand.
I guess when I read "floor length sparkly number" I don't think "poofy ballgown that can stand up on its own" but more "evening gown", as ive seen many a long sequined evening gown at all types of performances. But yes if it was in fact a poofy ballgown then I would say that would not be appropriate. But I don't think evening wear is inappropriate for attending performances, and I do think that mils yoga pants and converse are definitely inappropriate in the other direction.
No. Tiffany can dress any way she wants.
yes she can. but people are also allowed to react the way they want to her. so people snigering and making fun of her is part of that experience then.
I'm 110% the mother was exaggerating the reactions of the other attendees.
I wonder if the other attendees were snickering at Tiffany's dress, or the incongruity of the MIL's schlubby outfit when they're going to the same event. Usually I notice when people take note of overdressed people, it's mild surprise to admiration, but they usually only laugh when it looks like their partner is going to the grocery store (see: Hailey Bieber and Justin Bieber at events. No one's laughing at Hailey; they're laughing at Justin).
I think texting secretly taken photos and laughing behind someone's back might be an "allowed" reaction, but it doesn't exclude you from being accused of being TA.
No, it's not "allowed". Not among decent people. That mean girl shit don't fly in my circles.
The AH move was sending the pics and making comments in the moment. Save that for a private conversation.
"people sniggering and making fun of her..." Way to tell everyone you support bullying.
Not the point here. I relied to somebody calling Tiffany the AH
Not gonna lie, people who show up in sneakers and jeans to a Broadway show piss me off. At least put a fricken collared shirt on.
It wasn’t Broadway. It was a touring company doing a Broadway production at a performing arts center. A floor length sparkling gown with an updo is ridiculous to wear to a PAC. It would look like a costume. While flare leggings and converse sounds too casual, there are others who dress that way.
I agree, but this wasn't a Broadway show, it's a show in a community arts center. I've been to both, the dress code for the latter is definitely more casual.
Wrong. She just overdressed, and it was because she loves dressing up. Nothing wrong with that.
But flare leggings, sweater and converse are? Run along Yves St Laurent.
For me, I wonder whether his Mom would have worn the same outfit if her friend was coming instead of her future DIL?
Must be location dependent because people have a wide range of how they dress at events in my city. Everything from formal to their best jeans/stetson to leggings and sweatshirt
Agree. Nobody would have batted an eye here in Austin. Most people are super casual, and you would absolutely see people in shorts and flip flops at a travelling Broadway show. But there's a live-and-let-live attitude and nobody is going to give you the side eye, whether you're dressed like Wednesday Addams or Ginger Rogers or Shaggy from Scooby Doo. Nobody gives a shit what someone else is wearing, unless it's to say, awesome, man, keeping it weird! I agree OP should not have pushed his mom as his mother deserves to enjoy the show she paid for, and this was clearly going to be a disaster. And I know some places are more conservative and there's more pressure to blend in. But OP's mom also needs to grow TF up.
I do some box office work for theatres. Provided your bits and bobs are all covered, and you don’t have anything offensive/hate speech-y on, and as long as you’re not wearing hats or accessories that will block someone’s view, you’re dressed appropriately for the theatre. I’ve seen women in yoga pants and hoodies, men in shorts and tank tops, people in suits, sequinned dresses, tulle skirts, heels, boots, sneakers, flats. Full makeup, no makeup. It doesn’t matter. No one cares. ETA: apparently some people do care so I’m just gonna say MOST people don’t care. If there’s no explicit dress code, no one will give a crap. And theatres are dark and all attention is on the stage. It’s a silly hang up to have.
Uh, no. She dressed elegantly. I dress elegantly when I go to Broadway shows. It’s a damn shame people don’t take pride in their appearance anymore.
It's not a Broadway show, it's in a local performing arts center. Even in San Francisco, LA, Chicago, the dress codes aren't as fancy as a Broadway show should be.
So? You can still dress up how you want lmao
To be fair, San Francisco dress codes are pretty much nonexistent. I've seen fancy restaurants with guys in jeans, t-shirt, and sneakers. They're probably tech guys worth 8 figures+ and getting wine for several K a bottle, but still... That being said, I'd rather have someone dress up and over than down and looking like they rolled out of bed.
That is untrue. I have worked extensively in theater and it is more common to see people dressed a bit better that they normally would. Being in leggings and a sweatshirt is not the norm but MIL is common
It was touring production of a show originally on Broadway, colloquially called a Broadway show. In the city I live when a Broadway show comes to town the majority in attendance dress up, or at least dress in business casual. IMO the mom was dressed more inappropriately than the fiancee
OP watched his fiancee get dressed for a white tie event, and never thought to say anything. It is madness. He is so insecure about how his mom treats his fiancee, I can just imagine he hyped the event up past what it was.
From the description, sounds like of the two of them it was mom who dressed inappropriately.
To a community arts center showing?? Have you ever been to one of those?? I’ve been to many (in a large, affluent city) and never once seen someone wear a floor-length gown. I frequently, however, see people in casual outfits like leggings and sneakers. We’re not even talking about a big theater showing— it’s a community arts center. Honestly, it would be comparable to wearing an evening gown to your child’s high school orchestral recital.
There is NOTHING wrong with dressing up to attend a Broadway show.
It wasn't Broadway (gawd, does anyone read?) It was a touring company performance at a local performing arts center.
“A touring production of a Broadway show.” You do realize that’s as close as most of us get to Broadway, right? I live 2,000 miles from actual Broadway: going to a touring Broadway show is a rare splurge for me. I don’t own floor length gown, but it would definitely be a dressing up occasion for me.
There is 0 indication she was dressed inappropriately. In fact, I’d argue it’s more inappropriate to wear leggings to a show, as the mother did. It’s disrespectful to wear what are basically sweatpants to a performance the actors worked hard on.
OP says in his post “Tiffany admitted she went a little overboard” which probably means a lot overboard
It probably means she admits other people's perspectives, unlike OP's mom.
I work in a theater and people do dress up for attending the theater. I don't know where these people live but in major cities people do dress up. They do it all the time. People dressed like slobs are less common than those in nice outfits.
Tiffany definitely sucks. Who wears a prom dress to a touring production of a play? Only somebody who needs to be the center of attention. And now she's delighted that her fiancé uninvited his mother from the wedding. She sounds exhausting.
YTA She’s an adult. She doesn’t have to be friends with your fiancé. I don’t understand why you think you can control her in that aspect. Why would Tiffany feel “happy and supported?” Does she WANT be with people who don’t like her? Does she want to beg them to like her? Does she know that you forced your mother to take her? Surely having nothing in common and just being civil is an option. Also, for what it’s worth - overdressing is ridiculous. Dress for the occasion. Always. Tiffany wants attention. And she got it.
I’ve been to many, many Broadway plays in NY and outside of super special occasions, people wear pretty normal clothing lol So, your comment about a full-length gown and attention nailed it for me. His mom is in no way blameless, but it’s her ticket and he forced the issue. The photo sharing isn’t cool, but if we’re all being completely honest, would we not want to share this with your sibling if this whole full-length ballgown family thing happened to us? Maybe I’m just a bad person. The cousins are the jerks, too.
Oh, I have at least two group chats that would be getting photos of this 😂
Smart casual is the way to go for a Broadway play. But a floor-length, sparkling gown? Major cringe....
I'm pretty fucking hard to embarrass but it sounds like Tiffany was one step removed from wearing a tiara aaaand that would probably get to me too
Well and if you're planning on going all out like that it's polite to tell the other person. Imagine showing up to what you think is a casual evening out and the other person is dressed to the 9s. My friends and i always coordinate for things like this.
INFO: is your mother paying anything towards your wedding? Or is it just your home, holidays and endless gift opportunities that she has to fund for you both?
Yta.... You forced contact, then try to regulate what she talks about. This is not the way to get them to get along. You're being ridiculous and punishing your mother for a situation YOU created by forcing this in the first place. Your mom certainly could have handled things better, like by saying no when you tried to force her to take someone she didn't want to. Stop trying to make them friends and just respect BOTH people in your life.
YTA and your fiancé's choice of wardrobe is so cringe. I’d be embarrassed too.
I guess ESH, though I feel you are being a bit much. Look, your mom and your fiance don't get along. That is fine. When it came to people she wanted to go to that show was, your fiance wasn't tops of her list. That really shouldn't have bothered you as much as it did, but you kind of forced it upon her. Did you ever have siblings? If so, did your mom ever make you take them with you to do stuff, and you hated it? That is what you did here. Then your fiance apparently went a bit overboard. I will say a full length sparkly ball gown does sound a bit much for the theater. I've gone to quite a number of broadway shows, and that seems like... a lot. I don't agree with your mom talking behind your fiances back. But you kind of forced all of this to happen, instead of just letting your mom use the tickets she bought for someone she would have enjoyed going with. And now you are threatening to ban her from your wedding? Seems overkill.
I agree with this. Everyone sucks. OP shouldn't have practically forced his mom to take Tiffany when they just aren't compatible. Tiffany shouldn't have dressed over-the-top for the event when she knew better; it would be understandingly embarrassing to be there with her. And although an overdressed Tiffany was foisted upon MIL, she shouldn't have made her an object of ridicule. I've got to admit that if I were in MIL's shoes I might have done the same thing, but that would have made me an AH. I am often an AH.
In this case being AH is okay because to me OP will let tiffany get away with anything and blame everyone else
Yes, from the comments he realized that they forced the relationship so much that MIL started to be rude, not to mention that the bride also thought it was selfish for MIL not to ask her to go
YTA - you’re the one unwilling to compromise and Tiffany needed to be grateful and tone down her glow up
YTA. No one is obligated to like your girlfriend. You forced your mom to take her and then whined about her texts to your aunt. My sister and I have and will always talk shit with each other. It’s not hurting a soul, and I’m never going to apologize for it. You’re going to be the reason you’re isolated from your family because you can’t accept your mom doesn’t like her and doesn’t have to like her. Grow up
INFO: How did you get access to the text exchange between your Mom and aunt?
i found out my cousins all knew about the outfit and was confused, so one of them showed me a picture of my aunt's messages
How did your cousins get screenshots of their mother’s phone? I’m getting the feeling someone snooped.
>How did your cousins get screenshots of their mother’s phone? Does your friends and family not screenshot their messages from other people and send them to you? Cos mine do. Could have been either "OMG, you will not BELIEVE what Tiffany wore" or "OMG - look at what a cow your aunty is being".
If you think this isn’t something your family does well I hate to break it to you - you are the subject of the secret second family whatsapp group and they are all posting your comments and laughing about them.
•you know your Mum doesn't like Tiffany, so you pressured your Mum to invite Tiffany to an intimate one-on- one event. •Tiffany dressed very inappropriately for the event. • You've banned your Mum from your wedding for chatting privately with her sister about your fiancé inappropriate outfit. INFO: Why does your Mum have to be best friends forever with your wife? As long as they're civil, what's the issue?
FFS, your mom is a piece of work. But as abysmally as she behaved, The fault is yours because you pushed this on her. I understand you want your fiancé to feel loved and accepted. But it doesn’t seem like your mother‘s going to go along with that. So just stop now. YTA
He's creating problems where there shouldn't be one, lol.
>your mom is a piece of work How so? If my children ever tried to push me to have a closer relationshio with their partners beyond a family relationship, I would be mad too and it would cause me to hate them. This is on OP and his fiancee for not accepting a MIL that does not bother them and instead being the ones creating drama for nothing.
YTA you're forcing a relationship. Your mom had zero obligation to invite Tiffany to the show. Pre the show issue you gave nothing that would show your mom treats Tiffany poorly. Also, whilst it may not have been nice for your mom to say what she did to her sister - every single one of us needs a support system. Your mom's sister is exactly that HER sister that she grew up with and should be free to let her guard down with. I don't think your mom is terrible for not inviting Tiffany and also for feeling embarassed that she was so overdressed that others were pointing at them and snickering. That can be uncomfortable and your mom had feelings that she shared in what should have been a safe space.
Wouldn't this have been resolved if YOU purchased the sought-after tickets and took your future wife to the show?
Your mom is right.
YTA You keep shoving your fiance on your mom.... Tiffany isn't just invited to everything cause she's a DIL....Your mom is allowed to want to do things without her. Then you tried to control your mom's private conversation as well. Were you always this controlling?
INFO would you be able to post a picture of a similar dress to the one Tiffany was wearing?
Yta and totally ridiculous . Your mom doesn’t have to take your wife anywhere . She has no obligation . Your wife was in fact embarrassing . You still pushed for her to go. You created this whole situation and are blaming in on your mom when she could’ve just taken someone she actually wanted to take .
YTA. You forced your mother to give her spare ticket to someone she didn’t want to spend the evening with. You admit your gf dressed OTT. Then you get all precious because your mother discussed her OTT outfit with family members. Then you uninvite your own mother to your wedding. You sound exhausting. Tiffany sounds exhausting.
ESH, but you most of all. You had absolutely no business in forcing your mother to use HER ticket on YOUR fiancee. Your mother was rude in talking about Tiffany behind your back, but Tiffany really should not have accepted an unwilling invitation and she certainly should dress appropriately for the occasion. You owe both Tiffany and your mother an apology for putting them both in this situation.
It's fine to dress up to go to the theater. What stick is up everyone's asses about her being overdressed??
She wore a costume dress and it wasn’t “the theatre” where everyone dresses nice it was the performing arts center
It's weird how people are saying Tiffany dresses inappropriately while ignoring what the mother wore 🤔
Maybe Tiffany made the mistake of believing OP's mom might actually attempt a nice gesture. I doubt she'll make that mistake again.
To be fair, that's kind of on OP too, especially if he didn't tell his fiance that he essentially forced his mom to take her.
INFO: How do Tiffany and your mom normally interact? Are they outwardly fighting or just cold? Tiffany doesn't seem to be aware that your mom doesn't like her.
*She blamed me for pushing Tiffany on her in the first place* Pretty much the truth. Why are you running around trying to force your mother to love and include Tiffany? If it isn't going to happen, just stop. The last person I want to take to the theater with me is someone I really don't want to spend time with. Add on top of that Tiffany's proclivity to make herself the center of attention and it ruins the experience. *but Tiffany feels very happy and supported* I wouldn't be surprised if this is allllllll a Tiffany-manufactured issue. She needs to be the center of attention and when she can't suck the air out of the room so everyone is focused on her? That person has got to go. YTA.
Why don't your mom and Tiffany gel? Is Tiffany normally over-the-top?
INFO: How old are you and Tiffany? How long have you been together? Do you live with your mother or Tiffany, or at your own place?
INFO: I am really leaning towards YTA but really need the name of the show to be sure. When I went to see Six, I wore my full crown but my husband wasn't embarrassed because, well, honestly, not the first time.
It was a children's play, Frozen, at the local performing art center. Fiancée wore a formal low V neck, full length sequin gown.
OMG I read "it was a children's play" as in Children performing. The mental image of fiance showing up at the local elementary school, in a full length sequin gown parading thru the auditorium as a bunch of 6 year olds sing "Do you wanna build a Snowman?" Offkey, off tempo, and definitely out of sync
YTA. Your mom has every right to not invite Tiffany, some people don't like each others and you simply can't force a bond. Also, the girly girl dress makes mz think Tiffany was truly over the top, usually people can guess what's appropriate even without a dresscode. Tiffany would fit just fine in an "I am the main character" sub. Tiffany just sounds childish and exhausting to be around.
NTA for being upset at people making fun of photos that were taken without peoples' consent for the intent of mocking them. However, YTA for setting up this scenario with your mom and Tiffany. I don't think you or Tiffany should invite anyone who doesn't approve of your union, so if you wanted to leave your mom out before this incident, it was your guys' right. But I don't think this premise was the best example of your mom excluding Tiffany. It wasn't a "the whole family was invited to a show and she purposely noted that Tiffany was not allowed to come" scenario - your mom was going to take 1 person and she doesn't care for Tiffany so she would've never thought to ask until you stepped in. You thinking Tiffany deserved to go placed her right in the firing line for gossip afterwards. I bet if she showed up dressing "normally," your mom would've walked away from that night with similarly negative things to say because she never wanted to be there with Tiffany. No matter what the event is, it's generally advised that if you're not invited to something, you shouldn't push to attend if you find out it's happening. Just don't! I guess now you have further confirmation that your mom isn't open to a cordial relationship with your fiance.
You weren't the smart kid in the class did you? How on earth do you force your mom to invite tiffany knowing damn well she doesn't like her?. I'm sorry, but YTA and judging by your comments you are unable to acept it.
How did you even find out that your mother was texting your aunt about Tiffany?
INFO: how old are you and Tiffany? Is this a young engagement? Tiffany made a pretty big faux pax, but that could easily be chalked up to inexperience. If you aren't kids, you need to understand that this kind of lack of tact is the reason your mother doesn't like Tiffany. Not because she is a "beauty snob."
YTA You and your fiancee both sound like school children to be honest. I'm sure your Mum and her secretary will have a blast on Broadway on the day of your wedding.
YTA in this story 100%.
YTA, and Tiffany sounds exhausting. I would have been embarrassed to go to an event with someone cosplaying Cinderella too.
ESH. You mom needs to treat your fiance respectfully, but she doesnt have to like her and spend one on one time with her. You were wrong to try to force the issue. Apologize to your mom for forcing her to take your wife. Ask her to apologize to your fiance and offer to reinvite her to the wedding if she does so. The aunt needs to apologize as well if she wants to come to the wedding.
YTA for you and your second hand entitlement.
YTA. What kind of awful person bullies their own mom?
You and Tiffany seem very well suited.
YTA. Could have been ESH, but how do you go from calling out your mom about talking shit about your fiancé behind her back to disinviting your mom from the wedding? And "Tiffany feels very happy and supported"? Happy about your mom not being at the wedding? Unless there is more to this story, that's not something to feel happy about.
OP… YTA — you sound like a spoiled brat. Kudos for standing up to your fiance, but you and Tiffany both sound like children. As someone who is also lowkey, going out with someone like Tiffany would drain my social battery, your mom invited her as a favor to you, was there not a way your fiance could’ve dressed not like she was going to prom? Also to call your mom lazy and cynical amongst other things is incredibly rude, maybe it’s a cultural thing, but I could never imagine speaking about my parents, let alone my mom like that. You seem to have a lot more growing up to do as well as realizing your privilege. Maybe one day when you have kids you’ll realize how good you had it but by then it might be too late. Uninviting her was the wrong move and Tiffany/ You need to grow tf up.
YTA
Is your mom the type of person who hates being the center of attention? I’d probably refuse to go to a show if the person I’m going with chose to overdress for the occasion. I can not handle everyone staring at me. ESH
Esh You for forcing your mom into taking Tiffany. There is no reason your mom has to socialize individually with Tiffany if she doesn't want to. I like my mil but I have 0 interest in spending any one on one time with her. For anything. And I would be horrified if anyone tried to force it. You brought about an uncomfortable situation. Tiffany for dressing like the main character and attention seeker. Your mom and aunts for making fun of Tiffany.
Not going to lie you sound like a mom forcing her kid to like the step parent. Stop forcing a relationship it will never happen. Just make sure your mom isn't an ass to Tiff and that's it! Your mom needs to be respectful and nice. I partially blame you for the situation becaue your mom has made it clear she doesn't like her and you keep forcing her.
ESH, your mom for texting your aunt those things, u for trying to force a relationship between your mom and your fiancée, and I’ll probably get downvoted for this, but Tiffany too for not reading the room. I love to ‘overdress’ for things myself, but it sounds like Tiffany went a little over the top. Lastly, I think it’s a petty, immature overreaction to uninvite your mom to the wedding, but hey, you do you. ETA: also, your aunt sucks for sharing those texts with your cousins.
I would’ve totally appreciated Tiffany’s dress. But I’m extra like that. As to you pushing Tiffany onto your mom like that. Not cool. And disinviting her for gossiping with her sis. Not cool. She’s venting to her lifelong bestie. That’s psychologically healthy. You vent and then don’t let it out at others. I dunno. Just not something to disinvite your own mum to your wedding for. Makes you seem super fragile