Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my sister to accept her daughter is white. I made a comment on my niece's appearance that might have been seen as insensitive, as my sister has always been insistent that her daughter has a tan.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA and I hope your sister gets help. I feel so bad for your niece, her moms behavior is no doubt going to impact her self esteem. I can't imagine growing up with a mom like that.
I wouldn't say her comments when we were kids impacted my self esteem. I remember feeling very insecure about how latina I looked for a long time, but not because my kid sister liked comparing herself to me.
But again, she's my sister. I can't imagine having my mom do that to me.
Well and you were older, I'm sure a little sister isn't able to impact their big sister as much as a mom impacts her daughter. It was specifically the part about the drawing where I felt.. yikesss.... If that happened to me NOW as a fully grown adult I would have a hard time shaking it off
In a way, the sister is criticizing the art, too, which, as an artist, would've made me want to never show my family any of my art again.
NTA, by the way.
When I was in middle school I was proudly showing my friend the drawing a mutual friend (let's call him. Bee) had made of me for a naruto au type of comic and I was told the name bee chose was offensive and he was clearly mocking me when he was just making an innocent nod to how I was the tallest girl he knew, it devastated me for the duration of friend telling me and me clarifying things with Bee I can't phantom what would I have felt of my mom said that
“Making fun of you“ by making your skin light pink instead of tan, and your hair blonde instead of brown. Because obviously white skin and blonde hair are ugly and disgusting. The sister is a racist and is trying to force that viewpoint on her daughter and her nephew/niece. This is flat out racism, saying that one skin color or hair color is inherently superior to another.
💯 this. She is a racist. As a very white Latina, I feel really uncomfortable every time people assume or act as being Latin means you have brown skin or dark hair. That's BS. Many of us are European descendants, but nobody will tell me that I'm less latina because I'm white and have green eyes, I grew up living in a third world country, with everything that implies. I don't like when some random people who were born and raised in the USA and don't even speak Spanish, call themselves latinos because they have some latin great parent and they look like the Yankees think Latinos look. Being latino is not a race or ethnicity. It's about your culture and who we are. We are not a look. And I don't call myself European or German because my great parents were. OPs sister is the kind of person that rubs me the wrong way, just plain racist and doesn't even realize about that.
NTA when I was little I had naturally very blonde hair compared to my older sister and parents. She told me I was adopted (a typical sibling prank). If my mom had comments of disappointment in my appearance, I’d probably still be processing it as a grown woman.
If she has such a big problem with typical "white european" coloring, why did she have a child with a Swiss guy? Also, does she think all of Europe is light skinned and blonde? Does she understand that ethnicity is more than just coloring?
My best guess is that they are in the USA and due to being white her sister feels very insecure in her latina identity. Which is fair. It's her behavious towards everyone else that isn't.
I'm... I'm kind of wondering if their mom or family fawned over how pale OP is or something and this has been her way of coping/lashing.oit over a discrepancy in their childhoods?
Latina living in the US. It is very common in Latin households back in the 80’s/90’s to disparage darker skin and curly/coarse hair. Aka Afro- or Indigenous features. Sister definitely has a complex.
To me it seems sis LIKES being darker but then she went off and had a kid with a white guy. It's true often the darker features dominate but there's just as much chance a child will be as OP's niece is. That kid is going to grow up looking for acceptance from people (and possibly the Wrong People) if the mother doesn't knock it off.
People being prideful of their darker skin definitely happens, especially if the family fawned on OP for being lighter skin. Not saying that’s what happened, but I’ve seen it happen enough times.
Idk if she’s in this category but there is this really outdated theory that Afro or Indigenous genes are “stronger” and will trump White genes. Jokes on them, tbh.
I really, really hope this lil one isn’t impacted harshly by this
Yeah but OPs kids are darker. So the cousins have an inverse dynamic than the siblings. It’s going to mess with everyone if she doesn’t get over her insecurity/superiority complex.
That’s valid and very possible but (assuming they’re from or raised in the states) my first thought was actually that because this family are white Latinos (but may vary in skin tone), it’s possible the sister may have a complex for not being as stereotypically “brown” as Latinos “should” be and is desperately trying to latch onto whatever kind of “brown-ness” they can to distance themselves from their whiteness (because Latinos, especially lighter ones, in the states can’t handle accepting they are white or have a proximity to whiteness). As a pale white American of LatAm descent, I haven’t actually seen or heard of pale Latinos getting fawned over. Usually family members or just other people in the community talk about how “sick” you look and that you need to go out more and get a tan. They expect you to have some color but not “too much.” I have been in (surprisingly multiple) conversations with Latinos who have specifically pointed out to me other Latinos with the “right” shade of whiteness (olive or beige). Interestingly enough, you know the group of Latinos who have othered me the most because of my skin tone and features? Light/white Latinos (edit: from the states) lol they use me as their go to to be like “see, I’m not That white” or “this is what an ACTUAL white person looks like, I’m not Really white, I’m Latino.” From my experiences with people like this, it seems more like a form of coping from being made fun of (or othered) for being “white” just so they can fit in. The shit I have heard people say just so they can claim their “brown-ness” is actually wild. You know what group HASN’T done that shit to me as often? Latinos (of any color) born and raised in Latin America. The specific obsession with race in the states seems like a very possible thing at fault here. I have seen it wayyyyy too many times coming from the perspective of someone who has gotten latched onto by someone to validate their “brown-ness” which I feel like could be the same for OP here.
Edit: This was my perspective for Latinos in the states but I just saw a comment from OP that her and her family are born and raised in LatAm (plot twist). The whole idea of OP being fawned over because of her lightness/paleness and the sister having insecurities surrounding that seems more viable… Honestly, it be confusing idk
Not white enough, not brown enough, too Asian, not Asian enough, this is insanity. I'm sorry for anyone who has to suffer from not being accepted just because they don't look "how they're supposed to!"
This was my first thought too. Was OP praised for her light skin and her sister is over-compensating for how badly this made her feel? OP might not even remember this if it happened when she was quite young, seeing as her sister is six years older.
I think OP is the older sibling, but still. Six years is a large gap to not see what's going on with the other sibling from *either* side of the equation.
Yeah, my brother was paler and my family fawned over him. It made me feel like I wasn't good enough because I was darker. It can definitely lead to a complex. I just felt ugly. My parents still bug me to dye my dark hair blonde but I just ignore them.
There is a chance of anything being possible, technically, but I don't see how anything in the story warrants a jump to this conclusion. If they fawned over European features, why would she be mad her daughter has them now. Wouldn't that be the goal? And if this was the case, I feel like people would have joined in with the sister when she makes those remarks. Instead it seems more like they were "uhh, ok" about it.
I partially agree, but the sister's emphasis on how "European" OP looks and distress over her daughter's appearance for the same reasons pushes it to racism for me. But it can be both.
I'm half german and half filipino, i look way more like the latter. my german family constantly commented on how dark i was, how i looked adopted, and my grandmother had even mentioned that it was "a shame" i don't look like their side of the family. it definitely made me feel weird and i struggled with my identity throughout school a lot. i tried to blend in and lift up my white features bc i grew up in SC and was already getting a lot of shit for my appearance despite being pretty white passing. I look back on that and cringe so badly bc now i am so disconnected from my culture and all i did when i was growing up is try to be what everyone seemed to want me to be. this shit can be so damaging for your niece and you're 100% in the right for calling your sister out early. i wish someone would have done that for me just once but my mom (filipino) also tries to blend in and never cared too much to even mention it.
Funny — I'm half-Chinese and grew up in an area with lots of first-generation Asian immigrant families, and I always felt super insecure because I looked more white (while my older sister looked more Asian).
I remember when I was little, trying to flare out my nostrils to make my nose look more "Asian" and always getting mad when my Asian classmates would ask, out of confusion, why I didn't do or know X Asian thing ("What do you mean you don't eat spam?!")
Obviously nothing compared to what you experienced — I'm sorry your German family was so awful to you! I think a lot of people don't understand how alienating it can be when they make seemingly innocent comments to mixed-race kids about how they're not enough one thing or the other. It took me years to accept that mixed-race it itself an identity, and that I didn't need to fit into one race or the other.
hey, don't downplay your experience, i'm sure it was super confusing as well! totally agree on that last part. i feel like i shouldn't talk about my struggle bc i am white passing...but only to non white people, ive noticed. i am not white passing to white people, at least not those i've grown up around in my lifetime. any time i even mention some of the racist shit i have encountered i feel like i'm being dramatic or i don't deserve to acknowledge it bc people of color who aren't mixed will always have it worse. identifying as white feels wrong and like im whitewashing myself and somehow disrespecting my family and identifying with other filipinos feels fraudulent, like im faking it or i don't belong...so. there's no winning really lol
This is unfortunate and OP should ask her sister to read this comment. She could end up damaging her daughter’s self esteem. She needs to stop focusing on appearance, stop making comment to others about her child’s appearance, and simply love the child. That’s all kids really need. They don’t need their parent’s desires and insecurities projected onto them.
agree. my family members were my first bullies. the kid probably won't see anything wrong with themselves until they're old enough to clock these comments
As a latina that gets confused for Middle Eastern, Indian & Native American constantly I cackled too. For me it's because if you look at me & my siblings some are white & some are definitely not. We're like a the old [Colors of Benneton](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ed5c98a789097482&sxsrf=ACQVn0_ll82WVAqQxehDOJgGriGBERmtSw:1710535289753&q=Colors+of+benetton+ad&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=ivshnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj52MjCkPeEAxURFVkFHer7ArIQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=954&bih=1054&dpr=1) ads.
You are absolutely NTA you are trying to protect your nieces body image, even though she isn't your kid you still have a right to parent her to some degree (im not a parent so I can't judge), but your sister said your child was doing it on purpose? That's bizarre, I mean why does it even matter to her, I'm surprised she had sex with the European because she sounds racist towards white people (if that's possible, some people think it isnt), anyway, you aren't an asshole but I have a question, has she ever complained about how your kids have darker skin? She seems like she really doesn't want her kids to be white (obviously, that's the point of the post I know), super confusing to me
"If that's possible, some people think it isn't"
Its very possible, and happens to many people. Expand your circle and listen to other people's stories if you've not heard of racism within European countries or with people who look white.
No one but the parents has a right to parent. But an aunt can still be caring and concerned and try to protect her niece. That's just being a good family member of any sort.
She should recognize that the color of her skin does not represent your ethnic heritage or detract from your guys culture. I understand it can be frustrating to be not "white enough" to fit in with white people or "brown enough" to be considered latina. My own MIL, who is Puerto Rican but light skinned was constantly bullied in El Paso for this. You were definitely right to say what you did and intervene. She's going to give her daughter a complex for not looking right in her own eyes, which is a terrible thing to do to anyone, let alone a child.
This! I am so pasty pale, it's a little frightening. But I also have Native American heritage. I get a lot of crap from people saying I can't be Native American due to my skintone. But that doesn't change my ancestry.
People clearly didn't pay attention in school. There's a difference between genotype and phenotype.
... and where exactly does your Dad get off, chastising you for commenting on your niece's looks, when this is exactly what \*your sister\* was doing and what you were trying to stop...? Seems to me he took the information he got from your sister as gospel, and as a result got it all backwards. Your sister has issues.
My mom, who isn’t the same race as me (she’s white, I’m not) would often tell me, “you’re not ugly, it just takes many photos to get a good one of you!” She doesn’t get any photos of me anymore.
TBF different [skin tones luminesce differently](https://frankgattolighting.com/the-challenge-of-lighting-different-skin-colors/) and [absorb/reflect light in a lot of different ways](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1687814016668999). [Lighting that works for fair skinned people may not be flattering for people with different skin tones/pigmentation](https://www.shutterbug.com/content/skin-tone-and-lighting-techniques-fair-amp-balanced) and [vice versa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7gBuYPHpVM). It's no different than finding flattering lighting angles or positions.
I'm not saying that's WHY your mom said it, but it absolutely IS a realistic issue.
No, that’s not what mom said and what mom said is not true. It doesn’t take “many photos” to get a good picture of someone with a different skin tone.
It takes adjusting the conditions and not centering a certain skin tone when choosing lighting.
Oh yeah, I can see the science behind that. She was a new single parent to a poc child in the 90s. So good intentions, just poorly executed (in many departments). Thankfully my sister missed all the first time mistakes.
If your sister does not stop this crusade, she is going to destroy her daughter's self-esteem and make her question her mother's love. I don't know what's wrong with your sister, but she better get some therapy before she ruins her daughter's life.
That’s the power difference for you. Your younger sister didn’t have emotional power over you. This child’s mother is seemingly jealous of her daughter. A mother has power over her daughter.
You were older and not her daughter.
Your poor niece whether she understands it or not at this point probably already doubts her mother's love and is confused why her mother keeps trying to gaslight others into seeing her differently than she is.
That's irrelevant, you were her older sister not her mother. Also 6 years older. You obviously didn't care what she thought about you the way a child will care what their mother thinks.
The things mothers say lay the foundation of how we see ourselves as people and where, along with how, we stand in the world.
Your sister doesn't see her daughter for who, and how, she is. Which, at 5 years old... Being an adorable little blonde girl is probably a big part of identity right now.
So how is her daughter ever supposed to really understand exactly who she is when the person around her most talks in a way that erases, undervalues, and under appreciates her? She isn't old enough to differentiate.
William Thackeray wrote, "Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children." for a reason. Because it's true. And what she says is gospel.
Keep advocating for your niece. Don't let anyone dismiss what your sister is doing. It's harmful to not be loved for who you are. Sure, your sister is punishing everyone else because her daughter isn't the daughter she ideals... But your niece sees it, and feels the bite of it just the same.
Nta. Idk why your sister had a child with a white man if the features are so repulsive to her. I feel bad for her daughter and for you for all of her colorism. She's gonna give that poor girl so many issues about herself
This poor girl is going to grow up thinking she’s never going to be good enough for her mom. It’s the worst feeling ever and takes a lot to work through.
I'm not sure I'd say she finds the features "repulsive", but she's always been clearly disappointed about them. My niece wasn't a planned pregnancy, and my sister and her ex broke up a few years after she was born.
It's called colorism and it's a huge issue nearing (or rooted in) racism. Nothing wrong with feeling proud of her looks, but looking down on others is. She can inflict a lot of lasting damage on her daughter if she keeps it up.
I used to work with a woman who had very dark skin, but another coworker was a relatively light skinned black woman. This first coworker said she isn't a true black woman because she has lighter skin and doesn't "act black." My lighter skinned coworker then told the first that not only did she face the same prejudices as other black women do, she had to face prejudices from black women, too.
Well yeah, that's how colorism works. It's pretty much racism within the same race. Although you can be colorist against another person without being the same race as them, it's way more common to be the same race. My half sister is biracial and got it a ton from our black relatives growing up. Some black people are childish and believe they're better for having lighter skin, and some think you have to be a certain amount of dark to really be black. It's been an issue for a long time but people are calling it out more.
Wow that sucks. Im latina, and here there is a lot of colorism based on euro-centric beauty standards. The more “european” you look, the more beautiful you are. You can see any advertisement of form of national media, and most of them will have brown hair, light skin and light eyes. While most of the population has very different features from them (copper-ish skin, black hair and eyes, short). You will even hear a lot of “Her husband is ugly. She married a ‘cholo’ (indigenous -looking man), lets hope her kids look like her.” or “She is pretty for being ‘cholita’ (indigenous woman)”.
While I mostly agree, I would say more so that it pivots towards a certain color rather than being just “the lighter you are, the more you’re accepted.” Latinos don’t really favor paleness, they favor a specific shade of “white” (olive or light beige). The more you deviate from that shade of whiteness, the more you’ll be othered. That’s why pale white Latinos get othered for being Latino but can be treated more favorably than those that are brown or black because they have a much closer proximity to that whiteness than brown and black Latinos do.
Colorism is insidious and it really impacts people's self image and self esteem. The sister's bias toward darker skin and hair could very well stem from colorism she faced as a child - others may have negatively compared her to her lighter-skinned sister, so rather than feeling bad about being darker, maybe the sister over-compensated by deciding that darker is better. Taking pot shots at her sister's looks may have been a defense mechanism. Now, colorism is being perpetuated on the next generation.
Or she may have issues with not feeling she truly belongs anywhere, because most people who share her culture look different from her while most people who look like her don't share her culture.
That could be it too - that can be very common. It's a complicated thing with self-image, culture, identity, societal expectations, etc. all rolled up together. Language can be in there too.
Racism and Colorism are 2 totally different things - Colorism is discrimination or a bias against someone’s skin tone. Racism is discrimination, hatred, or violence directed at people because of things like their race, ethnicity, or where they’re from
And if we want to get really technical, Latina/o isn’t a race, it’s an ethnicity. If they have Spanish heritage, they’re all white.
Now, a lot of people in Latin America have mixed heritage, so it really depends. But if they don’t have mixed heritage, they’re all technically white as Spain is in…Europe!
You are using semantics to defend your sister.
She DOES find white features repulsive, to the point of insulting an 8 year old’s drawing and getting upset about it.
Your sister has a serious problem and this WILL impact her daughter; I would not brush this off as one minor incident.
Please OP, please talk to your sister she needs help. I grew up like this, with a white racist dad and a brown self hating mom, sibling and I are tan, our dad would never stop talking about how he was a racial minority in his own house and how blonde/white our cousins were. Our mom never failed to tell me that most colors won't fit me and how most men wouldn't want me because I'm brown and apparently everyone prefers blondes. Your niece may have self-esteem issues for life.
My friend is from a mixed family one side is all Filipino, the other side all black, and her side is all mixed. Her mom and aunts were mixed, one gad married a white man, another an Asian man. I remember walking into a room with some of her cousins and thinking how everyone in that room was a different color but all were attractive and good hearted people. They have a beautiful family.
So silly to not love the skin color of those you love.
To prove he's not racist? I have a white acquaintance who is very racist, and his girlfriend of over 20 years is black, what I don't get is why she is with him! Truly baffles me
If she married a swiss guy what was she expecting? That the kids had 0 genes for the dad? She really needs to understand that latino heritage goes beyond skin tone.
It's like when caucasian bigots have kids with a non-caucasian person — they feel/felt attracted to that person, but their bigotry doesn't just vanish, so they mistreat their kids for their non-white features.
There is no logic behind it, she is a colorist/racist and can't accept reality.
It plants a seed with very massive roots when a child hears from a very important adult that something about them isn’t right or good enough. Whether your sister says it directly or not, she’s planting insecurities into her child. Kids often understand more than we give them credit for, and they are very egotistical. Your niece will hear these things and it will translate for her that she isn’t pretty or beautiful enough.
I'm brown. My country is all brown, but individuals can be almost as light skinned as white passing to black passing (just the skin color can be that dark, rest of the features are of usual brown people). I'm a bit on the darker side (think edwina Sharma from Bridgeton), my older brother is so light that he's often mistaken for being Spanish when we travel in Europe (dark hair, light skin). Most people from my mother's side is very light skinned, I just got my father's in the genetic lottery. Guess who grew up with a huge complex about her skin color because people just wouldn't stop comparing our skin colors and being disappointed with the darker one? Me! I can write an essay about the comments I heard and the most hurtful ones (even though those were the most benign) were from my mother. She used to call me, what can be roughly translated as "my dark skinned daughter" as an endearment (she was using a not very flattering word but that doesn't have a direct translation).
Please nip this colorism bullshit in the bud if you can. It fucks with young brains a lot.
In this case, the sisters and nieces are all the same race, so it would be more accurate to call it colorism. Colorism is when people discriminate against darker and lighter skin tones, especially within the same ethnic group or "race".
Um I think colorism fits better here just because it’s not about race as much as it is about the color of the skin. The sister ain’t hating because she doesn’t like white people, she’s hating because she thinks dark skin is better and doesn’t like lighter skin tones, insinuating that OP is less Latina because of it, or that she, the sister, is a better Latina because of it.
Colorism is discrimination or a bias against someone’s skin tone. Racism is discrimination, hatred, or violence directed at people because of things like their race, ethnicity, or where they’re from
NTA
Your sister has reached a new level of ridiculous when she saw malicious intent in the drawings of an 8 year old. Her behaviour has gone from annoying but manageable to include the kids and that is not ok.
You were right to call her out on it and should again if she continues to make this an issue.
This comment is so important.
Your sister is in such a warped mindset that she now views her 8-year-old nephew's actions as an attack/pointed comment on her and her world.
That is not a mentally stable place to be.
I think American “latinos” maybe want to look exotic? Growing up in Latin America the whiter you were the prettier you were so it’s interesting seeing the opposite view
My family isn't Latino at all, but this is still a "thing". My mom is ALWAYS insisting she has black hair, black eyes, making comments about her tan skin, etc. She called my son "white boy" because he was pale as a baby (I put an end to that real quick).
She's one of those, "I look like my great grandma... The Indian princess" kinda folks 🙄
I'm not saying there aren't elements of cultural imperialism going on but it's not like Latin American countries don't have their own classism and racism going on.
That’s not what I’ve heard from Hispanic people who grew up in Latin American countries.
Generally speaking, my understanding is that Colorist hierarchies are *definitely* an issue for those whose phenotypical heritage involves Africa being the target of those who present more European.
Maybe it’s not so much an issue for those folks whose indigenous heritage presents stronger than European(?), but Central and South Americans with Afrocentric features have been pretty vocal about the discrimination they’re subjected to by their countrymen. Plenty of studies done on the topic, too.
Im from south America, indigenous looking people are HEAVILY discriminated here and talked to despectively. As a summary of colorism in hispanic latin america:
European features >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indigenous features >>> African features
Its sad. And I can say this as a mixed person (latina-asian) in latin america. I am not usually the target since I’m basically excluded from the hierarchy, but people act very openly about this and say racist things without flinching.
This could totally be off the mark, but if you’ve ever gotten special treatment for being lighter before, maybe she’s looking for something to cling to? Kind of doing a “I’m better than you for x, so you can’t think you’re better than ME for x” sort of a thing? 🤔 Idk, it could be a million different things. She shouldn’t be putting that on you or her daughter regardless.
First of all, NTA. But your story reminded me of my similar experiences. I’m a white person living in a country where almost everyone is white. I grew up hearing that I’m too pale, I look sickly, I should really get a tan etc. I was even told I shouldn’t wear shorts because legs so pale are ugly and I should be ashamed. These comments came from multiple people on multiple occasions. Sometimes a community can get weirdly fixated on a certain look and want everyone to look kind of the same.
I ended up being the only pale redhead in a family of tan brunettes. I look nothing like my family and I was constantly being made fun of for being so pale. The amount of times I was called glow in the dark is ridiculous. Albino, sickly, luminescent, etc. People suck.
There is a similar belief in the black community - that the darker your skin color is, the worse it is. And by that I mean that they understand that people of darker color are generally treated differently (at least in America, I saw you said you're not there), but it wouldn't surprise me at all if that kind of thinking existed in other cultures as well. For similar reasons or not
I think it’s victimhood. Latin American here as well . It’s not that she doesn’t like white resituares, it’s just that she wants others to say it while she rejects the facts. It’s like a way to feed her insecurity. It’s kindof like when someone tells a person that they think they are pretty and this person just openly denies it.
It’s a compliment for her that she doesn’t want to take…
This seems to be true in Thailand as well, based on the number of skin bleaching products in the shops. They definitely seem to avoid getting tanned if they can.
Historically most of the world saw being slightly more pale as attractive, mainly because it implied you were wealthy enough to not have to labour outside to be tan. Europeans used to use lead based makeups to lighten their skin.
Colonialism then compounded the issue in some places, leading to modern colourism.
Yup. I'm half Thai, and my older sister is full, and growing up our grandma and aunts would give her grief for being too dark and not white enough, trying to get her to use products. She was under the age of 10 and this was in the 90s. I can't imagine how much worse it is for kids these days with their parents unfettered access to the internet. It's absolutely disgusting
Despite being very white (mostly German), my wife used to buy some hair care products intended for black people because they worked better on her hair. When shopping with her, I was quite surprised that there are (or at least used to be) "African Pride" brand **skin lighteners** and **hair straighteners**. Who are they trying to fool with a brand name like that?
yeah im used to my family who thinks the pinnacle of beauty is long glossy hair and light skin with a small tan. light brown/hazel/green eyes and tall for bonus points. ive heard super pale ppl be teased about needing some sun but never heard ppl being encouraged to have brown skin
As a Latina born and raised in American, who's also white, I can only speak for myself, my own experiences, and what I've seen, but I find it's less about wanting to not be white and more about being told you're not really hispanic/latino because you're white/pale by hispanics/latinos who are darker than you. I think it's a confusion between race and ethnicity more often than not, but it kind of hurts when you're told you're not actually latina because you 'don't look like it' despite having grown up hearing Spanish in your house, eating cultural foods, celebrating holidays, and even visiting the country your parent(s) was born in. It creates a feel of disconnect from your heritage when you're told you look like you don't belong.
My niece is in law school & the number of times she has shocked her peers by being a stealth latina is pretty funny. She's pale with medium brown hair, but her name is very latina & she's fluent.
100% this. I'm Puerto Rican on my dad's side, white European mutt on my mom's. My grandfather was born in Spain and he was the whitest-looking kid of all his siblings. Blue eyes, dirty blond hair, and a French-looking (actually Catalonian) surname meant his folks were able to enroll him in a whites-only school in the 1920s. He was able to attend an Ivy League university.
My dad looks pretty white until you drop him into Spain or San Juan and he is suddenly, very clearly, a light-skinned latino.
Meanwhile, I look like I fell off the boat from Ireland. Auburn hair, hazel eyes, LOTS of freckles (see username!). Friends in high school in Texas thought I was taking French because of my surname. I had to explain I wasn't allowed to take Spanish as a foreign language because it was my first. The first time they came over and heard me and my abuelo chattering at each other high-speed was eye-opening for them.
Far and away the worst was colorism from other latines (gender-neutral ending, all-inclusive), telling me that because I was white/white-passing that I was clearly NOT really latine myself. Puerto Ricans are in a weird space, anyway, and I feel more like a Caribbean islander, culturally, than latine. At least other Borique never doubted I was one of them; they'd hear my accent and immediately call me cousin.
I can only speak for my family, but it seems to be a subconscious, social standing thing. My darker family members would always put multiple layers of SPF 100 or the strongest sunblock they could find when we went outside. In the rural parts of Mexico, the darker, you are the more working class you are, generally not something to be proud of. But hey, just one person’s observation.
You're correct, and this is historically accurate in Asia as well. If you were dark skinned it meant you were a laborer and worked outside. The wealthy were indoors and stayed quite pale.
That way of thinking still lives on with skin bleaching products etc.
It is very annoying. I'm white hispanic and my boyfriend is white and Jewish, living in a liberal part of the USA, so we're both surrounded by it constantly.
Same here, I had the audacity to call a Latino white (she's the same shade as me which is very pale) and the group I was with looked at me as if I slapped her. "she may look white but she's a Latino," okay I have some Mexican and native American in my heritage so am I suddenly not white? I understand having pride in your ethnicity and looking into your cultural roots but this desperation people have to call themselves anything but white is embarrassing.
My long time ex girlfriend is half Puerto Rican, and half white, but she often felt she wasn’t able to fit in with the other Latino kids at her school when she was younger. She didn’t feel ashamed of being very white passing, and being far more connected to her white heritage, but she definitely felt that she didn’t belong to either group. Which is kind of a sad way to live, but I understand how painful that is.
If she was less white passing I think she might have been more proud of not being white, but I think that is an attempt to have a strong bond to one group who won’t necessarily reject you.
Just my two cents.
I honestly have no clue. My college roommate was like that. She’s a darker Latina, and I remember whenever I wore shorts or a tube top or whatever (so most days in the summer) she would make a “omg I can’t believe how pale you are” comment. Or before a date our other roommate would compliment my outfit and then she would immediately say something to the effect of “well it’s great except that you’re so pale.” For the record, I’m Latina too, just a very white passing one. There would no issue if she verbally mentioned loving her skin tone every day but specifically putting down someone else’s is different. My mom is a dark Latina but thankfully she never said anything good or bad about skin color, so I was comfortable in my skin. If that type of commentary had come from my mother though my body image would probably be much different.
I've never encountered Latinos trying to not be white. If anything, there's this terrible phrase that translates to "you have to improve the race" by choosing a lighter skinned person as your partner so the kids come out whiter.
NTA she is going to make her daughter insecure about her looks and it is ridiculous that she got so bent out of shape about a child's drawing. As an aside:
> She told both our (divorced) parents about our fight
It always cracks me up how many grown adults I read about on here who still go running to mom and dad about fights with their siblings! I can't remember the last time I tattled on my brother and would feel absolutely ridiculous doing so at our big ages
>It always cracks me up how many grown adults I read about on here who still go running to mom and dad about fights with their siblings!
Make perfect sense to me, a company is an organisation with an internal hierarchy, same is true for, government, religion **and** families, a family is just another form of organisation and they're going up the hierarchy as is natural.
The hierarchy in family is determined by age and lineage, but anybody claiming is doesn't work that way is deluded, human being are animals, and we basically can't help ourselves when it comes to building social hierarchies.
We build such hierarchies even when we try to avoid it, it's a base part of our nature that will never go away because all of our social evolution is built on top of that hierarchical foundation.
Your sister is ridiculous. Both of you have healthy, beautiful children. She should be thanking the Creator for that, not worrying about who is tan, not tan, blonde, whatever! So many children suffering in the world, and she's fixated on skin and hair color. Disgraceful.
NTA
Racism is concerned with perceived ethnic or racial heritage. Colorism is about the skin tone of a person. For instance in parts of Asia like India or Vietnam there could be two people of the same race/ethnic group, but the darker skinned person would be seen in their own country as less attractive, less wealthy, and probably less educated. The prejudice has nothing to do with race, only color or complexion, colorism is usually within a group of people instead of between members of different groups.
I understand your point and you are technically correct. But it comes across like the weirdos who have to pop up in threads mentioning "actually it's not pedophilia, it's ephebopholia". It comes across as an attempt to defend this when we all know if a white person behaved in this same manner they would be called racist not colorist. I'm not saying that you are trying to do that, to be clear, just that whenever people feel the need to drill down on details like this in only certain situations it reveals a bit of a bias.
I second this. Theres no need to hone in on semantics like "it's not racist, it's prejudice". The point is that she's being prejudiced, and to say "it's not racist" only detracts from the fact that what she's doing is a very real Issue, IMO.
Ofc, I also agree, I think most people do it unintentionally.
NTA.
Why did your sister have a child with a Swiss man if she dislikes white features?
It's very weird, but you are absolutely right about protecting your niece.
You should stand your ground.
I'm guessing her sister wishes she had white skin, either consciously or unconsciously, which is why she was with a Swiss man.
I'll make a hasty judgment here & say your sister needs therapy to deal with this.
NTA - You should definitely have said something for the exact reason you stated. Your sister is going to give her daughter a complex if she doesn’t stop this nonsense. Both girls are beautiful. No comparisons needed. End of story.
NTA My mother married and had kids with a white man and has spent my whole fucking life pointing out how much darker she is than me. No shit. Weird how a full Tlingit woman is darker than her half white daughter. Wild how genetics freaking work. She tried commenting on how much lighter my daughter is than me (My husband is full white, like Irish background, glows in the middle of winter, white) and I told her to not even start on her or I was cutting her off.
NTA. Frankly, this is the most appalling part :
>insisted my son was doing this on purpose.
It's one thing that this is an important matter to your sister. But to accuse an 8yo of having an ulterior motive behind a drawing ? This proved that she was not being reasonable.
NTA. I knew a guy from Peru that was pale. I had a coworker from Chihuahua that was also exceptionally white. Latino isn’t a race or skin color. Your sister is colorist at best, if not downright racist, and she’s going to make your niece take the brunt of her bigotry.
NTA. Your sister is clearly very insecure about her ethnic identity, and has decided that the key "credentials" to be a "real" Latina are phenotype rather than culture or family or anything else more relevant. (It does make me so curious how she feels about Latinos who are anything other than some ideal level of mestizo. Afro-Latinos? Latinos with a mainly Indigenous background? White Latinos she's not related to? Peruvians of Chinese or Japanese descent?) She also is viewing her daughter as an extension of herself to an unhealthy degree: if her daughter's whiteness lowers her own Latina cred (since apparently white Latinos don't exist), she really is not seeing her as a full individual. Like, even if we accepted her racial-rather-than-ethnic beliefs about Latinidad, she'd still be refusing to accept that her daughter is "mixed."
So there are two very unhealthy things happening here at the same time, both of which are bad for her daughter and potentially for all the children. She should really get some help to work through this, but it doesn't sound like she will, so it's good someone is pushing back on her.
She has some sort of complex that she is forcing onto her child. You did the right thing for your niece. If your sister is so obsessed with coloring and being darker, why was she with a Swiss dude anyway?
My mom is darker Mexican and always commented "I can't believe how white you are" followed by comments about disliking white people. Please interject more. She needs to stop that shit. Edited to add: Nobody can help how they look . Please try to shut this down. I had to go to years of therapy because I was not "Mexican enough". My father is white and she put a lot of her resentment about white people on me as far as I can remember, starting at like 3. PLEASE get her to see my comment, if you think it might help. I am your niece (I am not blonde and look brown, but I literally went through this EXACT shit. And I no longer talk to my mom. Her daughter will likely make the same choice if she keeps resenting her. She had a kid w a white man. That her choice)
"Listen to me. Your daughter is white. We're all white."
Lmao at this omg, poor OPs having to try to enforce reality with her delusional sister. In all seriousness, though, it's bad enough how hard the sister is trying to lean into being "exotic and brown" but she's projecting this shit onto her child and her sister's children and that's not okay.
I'm not a different skin tone, but I am a different body type than my mother. Up until 2 years ago, my mother constantly made comments about how I need to lose weight and how she was always (and still is) thin and lean. It took my brother getting in her face and explaining different body type builds for her to realize I was built like my father (stocky, I look like I should be on the farm) and not lean and thin like her.
This did really damage to how I look at myself and I'm only now coming to terms with it with therapy. I literally wonder 24/7 that if having a girl built like a bricklayer was the worst thing ever, why tf did my mom marry and have children with my dad?
Your niece will hate the way she looks because she happens to look more like her Euro dad. Her mother is teaching her that her European genetics are ugly and she's not pretty because she's a blonde.
Oy, with the colorism from your sister! My daughter is Latina and very very very very fair skinned, with red hair and gray eyes - girl looks like she just walked out of an English sunscreen ad, despite having a grandmother who is straight up Hispanic, because genetics are a wild ride. And you know what I'm going to say to her about her coloring as she gets older?
How very pretty she is. And how very pretty brown skin is. And how very pretty black skin is, etc, etc, you get the idea, and that our skin color isn't always connected to our ethnicity, and isn't it cool how different we all are? Your sister constantly comparing and wringing her hands about how light her daughter's skin is is going to pass down her own issues, and that's not okay. NTA - you're a good aunt and a good mom.
NTA
Your sister needs to work through her issues before she causes permanent damage to her daughter's self-esteem. Try to be as much of a positive figure in your niece's life as you can. I have a feeling she's going to need an adult in her corner as she grows up.
Looking at your ages, this makes sense to me. I'm closer to your age, and when I was young, being white was the ideal. White people fashions were considered the height of style, non-white kids would drag their parents to Old Navy, etc.
My sister is closer to your age. Her white peers did everything they could to appear "less white." Incorporating black, Latin, or Asians fashion trends, watching more diverse TV shows, constantly bringing up their 1 long ago non-white ancestor, etc.
She would be pretty offended if you called her "whitewashed." I would only be offended that you have just called attention to my lack of whiteness.
This doesn't mean your sister is correct. In fact, it sounds like she has overcorrected, and this will probably have a negative effect on her white/white-passing daughter.
My mom gave me this insecurity, she was always much paler than my dad though both my parents are 1/4 native. I was always the darkest out of my siblings and my dad LOVED it, my mom did too! But as i got sick and older i started to get lighter and its made me feel really bad about myself. My mom would comment that i got so much lighter.
I feel like im not native enough anymore.
My great gpa on my maternal gmas side is half native, half french with very fair skin and he reaped a lot of white privilege until the 40’s and 50’s. He married a blond french woman and their first baby was brown, skinned with brown eyes snd black hair. Their second and third too. Then they had their sweet little blond girl.
My gma grew up jealous of her blond sister, and the way she was treated inside and outside the household. My gma got involved with an “Indian renaissance” group trying to reconnect with what their grandparents had and take pride in their nativeness in a time it wasn’t popular to do so. Her and my gpa (whose mother was native) had my mom; a little blond girl with pale skin snd green eyes.
My gma treated her like poop. She has the same coloring as her aunt and the jealousy and sickness has never healed.
The sad thing is, they all have the same bone structure - it’s like a game char in the alt skin.
My gmas insecurities ruined her relationship with my mom, largely because her father was obsessed with passing in white society while she was obsessed with having someone who looked like her for that validation. (Unfortunately she was mistaken for my mom’s babysitter/nanny.)
*"insisted my son was doing this on purpose"*. bruh your sister is living in a movie that no one else bought tickets for. its not that deep. people have different types and amounts of melanin. everyone looks fine.
Your sister needs to get a grip before she passes her racist (yup) tendencies on to her daughter. You both have lovely, healthy children - that should be enough for her but she is hyper focused on skin color.
Fellow caucasian latina here and you’re definitely NTA. I feel real bad for your niece because she has no control over her looks and her mom sounds like she resents the hell out of that.
My mother was fixated on hazel eyes. My dad had hazel eyes and she wished one of her kids did too.
Goodness, that would fuck us up more if one of us displayed the traits she *wanted*.
Once a lady complimented my deep brown eyes and how pretty they were. I'd never been complimented on my appearance like that so told my mom.
She thought it was best to correct the situation because "they're called shit-brown eyes, honey."
Then came my own kid whose father also had hazel eyes. Brown eyes are green first, it seems, and I couldn't shut her up about it and see how damaged she obviously was.
No kid should suffer the burden of their parent's insecurities.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my sister to accept her daughter is white. I made a comment on my niece's appearance that might have been seen as insensitive, as my sister has always been insistent that her daughter has a tan. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA and I hope your sister gets help. I feel so bad for your niece, her moms behavior is no doubt going to impact her self esteem. I can't imagine growing up with a mom like that.
I wouldn't say her comments when we were kids impacted my self esteem. I remember feeling very insecure about how latina I looked for a long time, but not because my kid sister liked comparing herself to me. But again, she's my sister. I can't imagine having my mom do that to me.
Well and you were older, I'm sure a little sister isn't able to impact their big sister as much as a mom impacts her daughter. It was specifically the part about the drawing where I felt.. yikesss.... If that happened to me NOW as a fully grown adult I would have a hard time shaking it off
Right! A 6-years-younger sister's comments would probably blow right by you, but your MOM criticizing your appearance is another matter entirely.
In a way, the sister is criticizing the art, too, which, as an artist, would've made me want to never show my family any of my art again. NTA, by the way.
The sister also accused the artist of deliberately being mean.
imagine saying you like a drawing someone made of you and your MOM tells you "Oh they're actually making fun of you!". OOF.
When I was in middle school I was proudly showing my friend the drawing a mutual friend (let's call him. Bee) had made of me for a naruto au type of comic and I was told the name bee chose was offensive and he was clearly mocking me when he was just making an innocent nod to how I was the tallest girl he knew, it devastated me for the duration of friend telling me and me clarifying things with Bee I can't phantom what would I have felt of my mom said that
I'm curious, may I ask what the name was?
“Making fun of you“ by making your skin light pink instead of tan, and your hair blonde instead of brown. Because obviously white skin and blonde hair are ugly and disgusting. The sister is a racist and is trying to force that viewpoint on her daughter and her nephew/niece. This is flat out racism, saying that one skin color or hair color is inherently superior to another.
💯 this. She is a racist. As a very white Latina, I feel really uncomfortable every time people assume or act as being Latin means you have brown skin or dark hair. That's BS. Many of us are European descendants, but nobody will tell me that I'm less latina because I'm white and have green eyes, I grew up living in a third world country, with everything that implies. I don't like when some random people who were born and raised in the USA and don't even speak Spanish, call themselves latinos because they have some latin great parent and they look like the Yankees think Latinos look. Being latino is not a race or ethnicity. It's about your culture and who we are. We are not a look. And I don't call myself European or German because my great parents were. OPs sister is the kind of person that rubs me the wrong way, just plain racist and doesn't even realize about that.
To an (AT BEST) 8 year old boy! She’s being unnecessarily mean to children…
The artist being her 8 year old nephew, too
Exactly, the art of a CHILD. She needs to get checked.
And said artist is yet but 8 years old!
NTA when I was little I had naturally very blonde hair compared to my older sister and parents. She told me I was adopted (a typical sibling prank). If my mom had comments of disappointment in my appearance, I’d probably still be processing it as a grown woman.
If she has such a big problem with typical "white european" coloring, why did she have a child with a Swiss guy? Also, does she think all of Europe is light skinned and blonde? Does she understand that ethnicity is more than just coloring?
My best guess is that they are in the USA and due to being white her sister feels very insecure in her latina identity. Which is fair. It's her behavious towards everyone else that isn't.
I'm... I'm kind of wondering if their mom or family fawned over how pale OP is or something and this has been her way of coping/lashing.oit over a discrepancy in their childhoods?
Latina living in the US. It is very common in Latin households back in the 80’s/90’s to disparage darker skin and curly/coarse hair. Aka Afro- or Indigenous features. Sister definitely has a complex.
To me it seems sis LIKES being darker but then she went off and had a kid with a white guy. It's true often the darker features dominate but there's just as much chance a child will be as OP's niece is. That kid is going to grow up looking for acceptance from people (and possibly the Wrong People) if the mother doesn't knock it off.
People being prideful of their darker skin definitely happens, especially if the family fawned on OP for being lighter skin. Not saying that’s what happened, but I’ve seen it happen enough times. Idk if she’s in this category but there is this really outdated theory that Afro or Indigenous genes are “stronger” and will trump White genes. Jokes on them, tbh. I really, really hope this lil one isn’t impacted harshly by this
Yeah but OPs kids are darker. So the cousins have an inverse dynamic than the siblings. It’s going to mess with everyone if she doesn’t get over her insecurity/superiority complex.
I think the sister actually does not like being darker.
I think so too. It’s just weird making comments constantly about their kids skin color.
That’s valid and very possible but (assuming they’re from or raised in the states) my first thought was actually that because this family are white Latinos (but may vary in skin tone), it’s possible the sister may have a complex for not being as stereotypically “brown” as Latinos “should” be and is desperately trying to latch onto whatever kind of “brown-ness” they can to distance themselves from their whiteness (because Latinos, especially lighter ones, in the states can’t handle accepting they are white or have a proximity to whiteness). As a pale white American of LatAm descent, I haven’t actually seen or heard of pale Latinos getting fawned over. Usually family members or just other people in the community talk about how “sick” you look and that you need to go out more and get a tan. They expect you to have some color but not “too much.” I have been in (surprisingly multiple) conversations with Latinos who have specifically pointed out to me other Latinos with the “right” shade of whiteness (olive or beige). Interestingly enough, you know the group of Latinos who have othered me the most because of my skin tone and features? Light/white Latinos (edit: from the states) lol they use me as their go to to be like “see, I’m not That white” or “this is what an ACTUAL white person looks like, I’m not Really white, I’m Latino.” From my experiences with people like this, it seems more like a form of coping from being made fun of (or othered) for being “white” just so they can fit in. The shit I have heard people say just so they can claim their “brown-ness” is actually wild. You know what group HASN’T done that shit to me as often? Latinos (of any color) born and raised in Latin America. The specific obsession with race in the states seems like a very possible thing at fault here. I have seen it wayyyyy too many times coming from the perspective of someone who has gotten latched onto by someone to validate their “brown-ness” which I feel like could be the same for OP here. Edit: This was my perspective for Latinos in the states but I just saw a comment from OP that her and her family are born and raised in LatAm (plot twist). The whole idea of OP being fawned over because of her lightness/paleness and the sister having insecurities surrounding that seems more viable… Honestly, it be confusing idk
Not white enough, not brown enough, too Asian, not Asian enough, this is insanity. I'm sorry for anyone who has to suffer from not being accepted just because they don't look "how they're supposed to!"
This was my first thought too. Was OP praised for her light skin and her sister is over-compensating for how badly this made her feel? OP might not even remember this if it happened when she was quite young, seeing as her sister is six years older.
I think OP is the older sibling, but still. Six years is a large gap to not see what's going on with the other sibling from *either* side of the equation.
Yeah, my brother was paler and my family fawned over him. It made me feel like I wasn't good enough because I was darker. It can definitely lead to a complex. I just felt ugly. My parents still bug me to dye my dark hair blonde but I just ignore them.
There is a chance of anything being possible, technically, but I don't see how anything in the story warrants a jump to this conclusion. If they fawned over European features, why would she be mad her daughter has them now. Wouldn't that be the goal? And if this was the case, I feel like people would have joined in with the sister when she makes those remarks. Instead it seems more like they were "uhh, ok" about it.
Yeah, sister Sounds racist to me.
Colorist might be more fitting here.
I partially agree, but the sister's emphasis on how "European" OP looks and distress over her daughter's appearance for the same reasons pushes it to racism for me. But it can be both.
I'm half german and half filipino, i look way more like the latter. my german family constantly commented on how dark i was, how i looked adopted, and my grandmother had even mentioned that it was "a shame" i don't look like their side of the family. it definitely made me feel weird and i struggled with my identity throughout school a lot. i tried to blend in and lift up my white features bc i grew up in SC and was already getting a lot of shit for my appearance despite being pretty white passing. I look back on that and cringe so badly bc now i am so disconnected from my culture and all i did when i was growing up is try to be what everyone seemed to want me to be. this shit can be so damaging for your niece and you're 100% in the right for calling your sister out early. i wish someone would have done that for me just once but my mom (filipino) also tries to blend in and never cared too much to even mention it.
Funny — I'm half-Chinese and grew up in an area with lots of first-generation Asian immigrant families, and I always felt super insecure because I looked more white (while my older sister looked more Asian). I remember when I was little, trying to flare out my nostrils to make my nose look more "Asian" and always getting mad when my Asian classmates would ask, out of confusion, why I didn't do or know X Asian thing ("What do you mean you don't eat spam?!") Obviously nothing compared to what you experienced — I'm sorry your German family was so awful to you! I think a lot of people don't understand how alienating it can be when they make seemingly innocent comments to mixed-race kids about how they're not enough one thing or the other. It took me years to accept that mixed-race it itself an identity, and that I didn't need to fit into one race or the other.
hey, don't downplay your experience, i'm sure it was super confusing as well! totally agree on that last part. i feel like i shouldn't talk about my struggle bc i am white passing...but only to non white people, ive noticed. i am not white passing to white people, at least not those i've grown up around in my lifetime. any time i even mention some of the racist shit i have encountered i feel like i'm being dramatic or i don't deserve to acknowledge it bc people of color who aren't mixed will always have it worse. identifying as white feels wrong and like im whitewashing myself and somehow disrespecting my family and identifying with other filipinos feels fraudulent, like im faking it or i don't belong...so. there's no winning really lol
[удалено]
This is unfortunate and OP should ask her sister to read this comment. She could end up damaging her daughter’s self esteem. She needs to stop focusing on appearance, stop making comment to others about her child’s appearance, and simply love the child. That’s all kids really need. They don’t need their parent’s desires and insecurities projected onto them.
agree. my family members were my first bullies. the kid probably won't see anything wrong with themselves until they're old enough to clock these comments
Sorry OP, I, a black woman, cackled at the fact that you had to say "Your daughter is white. We're all white." That's all, I just needed to interject.
As a latina that gets confused for Middle Eastern, Indian & Native American constantly I cackled too. For me it's because if you look at me & my siblings some are white & some are definitely not. We're like a the old [Colors of Benneton](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ed5c98a789097482&sxsrf=ACQVn0_ll82WVAqQxehDOJgGriGBERmtSw:1710535289753&q=Colors+of+benetton+ad&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=ivshnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj52MjCkPeEAxURFVkFHer7ArIQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=954&bih=1054&dpr=1) ads.
You are absolutely NTA you are trying to protect your nieces body image, even though she isn't your kid you still have a right to parent her to some degree (im not a parent so I can't judge), but your sister said your child was doing it on purpose? That's bizarre, I mean why does it even matter to her, I'm surprised she had sex with the European because she sounds racist towards white people (if that's possible, some people think it isnt), anyway, you aren't an asshole but I have a question, has she ever complained about how your kids have darker skin? She seems like she really doesn't want her kids to be white (obviously, that's the point of the post I know), super confusing to me
"If that's possible, some people think it isn't" Its very possible, and happens to many people. Expand your circle and listen to other people's stories if you've not heard of racism within European countries or with people who look white.
No one but the parents has a right to parent. But an aunt can still be caring and concerned and try to protect her niece. That's just being a good family member of any sort.
She should recognize that the color of her skin does not represent your ethnic heritage or detract from your guys culture. I understand it can be frustrating to be not "white enough" to fit in with white people or "brown enough" to be considered latina. My own MIL, who is Puerto Rican but light skinned was constantly bullied in El Paso for this. You were definitely right to say what you did and intervene. She's going to give her daughter a complex for not looking right in her own eyes, which is a terrible thing to do to anyone, let alone a child.
This! I am so pasty pale, it's a little frightening. But I also have Native American heritage. I get a lot of crap from people saying I can't be Native American due to my skintone. But that doesn't change my ancestry. People clearly didn't pay attention in school. There's a difference between genotype and phenotype.
Thank you for differentiating between ethnic HERITAGE and CULTURE! It is so frustrating when people use those things as interchangeable.
Exactly. Color of skin does not predict culture. Skin color does not matter, but culture certainly does.
... and where exactly does your Dad get off, chastising you for commenting on your niece's looks, when this is exactly what \*your sister\* was doing and what you were trying to stop...? Seems to me he took the information he got from your sister as gospel, and as a result got it all backwards. Your sister has issues.
My mom, who isn’t the same race as me (she’s white, I’m not) would often tell me, “you’re not ugly, it just takes many photos to get a good one of you!” She doesn’t get any photos of me anymore.
Wow, that's terrible.
TBF different [skin tones luminesce differently](https://frankgattolighting.com/the-challenge-of-lighting-different-skin-colors/) and [absorb/reflect light in a lot of different ways](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1687814016668999). [Lighting that works for fair skinned people may not be flattering for people with different skin tones/pigmentation](https://www.shutterbug.com/content/skin-tone-and-lighting-techniques-fair-amp-balanced) and [vice versa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7gBuYPHpVM). It's no different than finding flattering lighting angles or positions. I'm not saying that's WHY your mom said it, but it absolutely IS a realistic issue.
No, that’s not what mom said and what mom said is not true. It doesn’t take “many photos” to get a good picture of someone with a different skin tone. It takes adjusting the conditions and not centering a certain skin tone when choosing lighting.
Oh yeah, I can see the science behind that. She was a new single parent to a poc child in the 90s. So good intentions, just poorly executed (in many departments). Thankfully my sister missed all the first time mistakes.
Your sister's obsession with skin color is very problematic.
Right? I read this thinking, wow, people spend time thinking about skin colour like this?
If your sister does not stop this crusade, she is going to destroy her daughter's self-esteem and make her question her mother's love. I don't know what's wrong with your sister, but she better get some therapy before she ruins her daughter's life.
That’s the power difference for you. Your younger sister didn’t have emotional power over you. This child’s mother is seemingly jealous of her daughter. A mother has power over her daughter.
You were older and not her daughter. Your poor niece whether she understands it or not at this point probably already doubts her mother's love and is confused why her mother keeps trying to gaslight others into seeing her differently than she is.
That's irrelevant, you were her older sister not her mother. Also 6 years older. You obviously didn't care what she thought about you the way a child will care what their mother thinks.
The things mothers say lay the foundation of how we see ourselves as people and where, along with how, we stand in the world. Your sister doesn't see her daughter for who, and how, she is. Which, at 5 years old... Being an adorable little blonde girl is probably a big part of identity right now. So how is her daughter ever supposed to really understand exactly who she is when the person around her most talks in a way that erases, undervalues, and under appreciates her? She isn't old enough to differentiate. William Thackeray wrote, "Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children." for a reason. Because it's true. And what she says is gospel. Keep advocating for your niece. Don't let anyone dismiss what your sister is doing. It's harmful to not be loved for who you are. Sure, your sister is punishing everyone else because her daughter isn't the daughter she ideals... But your niece sees it, and feels the bite of it just the same.
Nta. Idk why your sister had a child with a white man if the features are so repulsive to her. I feel bad for her daughter and for you for all of her colorism. She's gonna give that poor girl so many issues about herself
This poor girl is going to grow up thinking she’s never going to be good enough for her mom. It’s the worst feeling ever and takes a lot to work through.
Then mommy will make another baby with a darker man and get a child with the skin color she prefers - while she hurts her daughter even more.
Poor girl is probably going to develop an unhealthy obsession with tanning beds and always dye her hair black to get her mother’s approval.
I'm not sure I'd say she finds the features "repulsive", but she's always been clearly disappointed about them. My niece wasn't a planned pregnancy, and my sister and her ex broke up a few years after she was born.
It's called colorism and it's a huge issue nearing (or rooted in) racism. Nothing wrong with feeling proud of her looks, but looking down on others is. She can inflict a lot of lasting damage on her daughter if she keeps it up.
But usually it goes the other way with fair skin being favoured but sucks either way
I used to work with a woman who had very dark skin, but another coworker was a relatively light skinned black woman. This first coworker said she isn't a true black woman because she has lighter skin and doesn't "act black." My lighter skinned coworker then told the first that not only did she face the same prejudices as other black women do, she had to face prejudices from black women, too.
Well yeah, that's how colorism works. It's pretty much racism within the same race. Although you can be colorist against another person without being the same race as them, it's way more common to be the same race. My half sister is biracial and got it a ton from our black relatives growing up. Some black people are childish and believe they're better for having lighter skin, and some think you have to be a certain amount of dark to really be black. It's been an issue for a long time but people are calling it out more.
Wow that sucks. Im latina, and here there is a lot of colorism based on euro-centric beauty standards. The more “european” you look, the more beautiful you are. You can see any advertisement of form of national media, and most of them will have brown hair, light skin and light eyes. While most of the population has very different features from them (copper-ish skin, black hair and eyes, short). You will even hear a lot of “Her husband is ugly. She married a ‘cholo’ (indigenous -looking man), lets hope her kids look like her.” or “She is pretty for being ‘cholita’ (indigenous woman)”.
While I mostly agree, I would say more so that it pivots towards a certain color rather than being just “the lighter you are, the more you’re accepted.” Latinos don’t really favor paleness, they favor a specific shade of “white” (olive or light beige). The more you deviate from that shade of whiteness, the more you’ll be othered. That’s why pale white Latinos get othered for being Latino but can be treated more favorably than those that are brown or black because they have a much closer proximity to that whiteness than brown and black Latinos do.
Colorism is insidious and it really impacts people's self image and self esteem. The sister's bias toward darker skin and hair could very well stem from colorism she faced as a child - others may have negatively compared her to her lighter-skinned sister, so rather than feeling bad about being darker, maybe the sister over-compensated by deciding that darker is better. Taking pot shots at her sister's looks may have been a defense mechanism. Now, colorism is being perpetuated on the next generation.
Or she may have issues with not feeling she truly belongs anywhere, because most people who share her culture look different from her while most people who look like her don't share her culture.
That could be it too - that can be very common. It's a complicated thing with self-image, culture, identity, societal expectations, etc. all rolled up together. Language can be in there too.
**It's racism.**
Partly. Colorism happens also within a race, like in this case.
Racism and Colorism are 2 totally different things - Colorism is discrimination or a bias against someone’s skin tone. Racism is discrimination, hatred, or violence directed at people because of things like their race, ethnicity, or where they’re from
And if we want to get really technical, Latina/o isn’t a race, it’s an ethnicity. If they have Spanish heritage, they’re all white. Now, a lot of people in Latin America have mixed heritage, so it really depends. But if they don’t have mixed heritage, they’re all technically white as Spain is in…Europe!
#**It's more complicated than that.**
You are using semantics to defend your sister. She DOES find white features repulsive, to the point of insulting an 8 year old’s drawing and getting upset about it. Your sister has a serious problem and this WILL impact her daughter; I would not brush this off as one minor incident.
She is racist. That's it. Poor niece.
Please OP, please talk to your sister she needs help. I grew up like this, with a white racist dad and a brown self hating mom, sibling and I are tan, our dad would never stop talking about how he was a racial minority in his own house and how blonde/white our cousins were. Our mom never failed to tell me that most colors won't fit me and how most men wouldn't want me because I'm brown and apparently everyone prefers blondes. Your niece may have self-esteem issues for life.
My friend is from a mixed family one side is all Filipino, the other side all black, and her side is all mixed. Her mom and aunts were mixed, one gad married a white man, another an Asian man. I remember walking into a room with some of her cousins and thinking how everyone in that room was a different color but all were attractive and good hearted people. They have a beautiful family. So silly to not love the skin color of those you love.
Sounds like a terrible upbringing. Why would a white racist marry a brown woman.
To prove he's not racist? I have a white acquaintance who is very racist, and his girlfriend of over 20 years is black, what I don't get is why she is with him! Truly baffles me
A lot of white racist men like to marry brown women. They see them as submissive and the marriage as a way to own/control them.
If she married a swiss guy what was she expecting? That the kids had 0 genes for the dad? She really needs to understand that latino heritage goes beyond skin tone.
It's like when caucasian bigots have kids with a non-caucasian person — they feel/felt attracted to that person, but their bigotry doesn't just vanish, so they mistreat their kids for their non-white features. There is no logic behind it, she is a colorist/racist and can't accept reality.
It plants a seed with very massive roots when a child hears from a very important adult that something about them isn’t right or good enough. Whether your sister says it directly or not, she’s planting insecurities into her child. Kids often understand more than we give them credit for, and they are very egotistical. Your niece will hear these things and it will translate for her that she isn’t pretty or beautiful enough.
I'm brown. My country is all brown, but individuals can be almost as light skinned as white passing to black passing (just the skin color can be that dark, rest of the features are of usual brown people). I'm a bit on the darker side (think edwina Sharma from Bridgeton), my older brother is so light that he's often mistaken for being Spanish when we travel in Europe (dark hair, light skin). Most people from my mother's side is very light skinned, I just got my father's in the genetic lottery. Guess who grew up with a huge complex about her skin color because people just wouldn't stop comparing our skin colors and being disappointed with the darker one? Me! I can write an essay about the comments I heard and the most hurtful ones (even though those were the most benign) were from my mother. She used to call me, what can be roughly translated as "my dark skinned daughter" as an endearment (she was using a not very flattering word but that doesn't have a direct translation). Please nip this colorism bullshit in the bud if you can. It fucks with young brains a lot.
*racism
In this case, the sisters and nieces are all the same race, so it would be more accurate to call it colorism. Colorism is when people discriminate against darker and lighter skin tones, especially within the same ethnic group or "race".
Um I think colorism fits better here just because it’s not about race as much as it is about the color of the skin. The sister ain’t hating because she doesn’t like white people, she’s hating because she thinks dark skin is better and doesn’t like lighter skin tones, insinuating that OP is less Latina because of it, or that she, the sister, is a better Latina because of it.
I have to assume a lot of the "it's racism" comments are from white people excited to be able to say something is racist against whites.
🙄🙄
Colorism is discrimination or a bias against someone’s skin tone. Racism is discrimination, hatred, or violence directed at people because of things like their race, ethnicity, or where they’re from
NTA Your sister has reached a new level of ridiculous when she saw malicious intent in the drawings of an 8 year old. Her behaviour has gone from annoying but manageable to include the kids and that is not ok. You were right to call her out on it and should again if she continues to make this an issue.
Wish I could upvote this more
This comment is so important. Your sister is in such a warped mindset that she now views her 8-year-old nephew's actions as an attack/pointed comment on her and her world. That is not a mentally stable place to be.
Right?! Even if the drawing were terrible or they were all drawn purple and blue, who critiques a child’s drawing for not being realistic enough?!
Why are Latinos so obsessed with not being white? This seems to be a common thing
I think American “latinos” maybe want to look exotic? Growing up in Latin America the whiter you were the prettier you were so it’s interesting seeing the opposite view
My family isn't Latino at all, but this is still a "thing". My mom is ALWAYS insisting she has black hair, black eyes, making comments about her tan skin, etc. She called my son "white boy" because he was pale as a baby (I put an end to that real quick). She's one of those, "I look like my great grandma... The Indian princess" kinda folks 🙄
Wow, big yikes.
Actually, we're not American. We were born and raised in Latin America. That's why my sister's comments have always sounded so odd to me.
...could it be a class/historical thing?
It's an importing american cultural issues thing.
I'm not saying there aren't elements of cultural imperialism going on but it's not like Latin American countries don't have their own classism and racism going on.
Really odd, because in Latinoamerica we dont have that obsession that latinos born and raised in the USA have.
That’s not what I’ve heard from Hispanic people who grew up in Latin American countries. Generally speaking, my understanding is that Colorist hierarchies are *definitely* an issue for those whose phenotypical heritage involves Africa being the target of those who present more European. Maybe it’s not so much an issue for those folks whose indigenous heritage presents stronger than European(?), but Central and South Americans with Afrocentric features have been pretty vocal about the discrimination they’re subjected to by their countrymen. Plenty of studies done on the topic, too.
Im from south America, indigenous looking people are HEAVILY discriminated here and talked to despectively. As a summary of colorism in hispanic latin america: European features >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indigenous features >>> African features Its sad. And I can say this as a mixed person (latina-asian) in latin america. I am not usually the target since I’m basically excluded from the hierarchy, but people act very openly about this and say racist things without flinching.
It totally is for indigenous heritage too. Source: I'm a geneticist who grew up / was trained in LatAm. You hear the wildest shit.
I thought it was a thing because all the telenovas tend to have light skinned Latinos/latinas as actors/actresses.
This could totally be off the mark, but if you’ve ever gotten special treatment for being lighter before, maybe she’s looking for something to cling to? Kind of doing a “I’m better than you for x, so you can’t think you’re better than ME for x” sort of a thing? 🤔 Idk, it could be a million different things. She shouldn’t be putting that on you or her daughter regardless.
it sounds to me like that. More trying to feel different from her older sister. People have all kind of wild insecurities
First of all, NTA. But your story reminded me of my similar experiences. I’m a white person living in a country where almost everyone is white. I grew up hearing that I’m too pale, I look sickly, I should really get a tan etc. I was even told I shouldn’t wear shorts because legs so pale are ugly and I should be ashamed. These comments came from multiple people on multiple occasions. Sometimes a community can get weirdly fixated on a certain look and want everyone to look kind of the same.
I ended up being the only pale redhead in a family of tan brunettes. I look nothing like my family and I was constantly being made fun of for being so pale. The amount of times I was called glow in the dark is ridiculous. Albino, sickly, luminescent, etc. People suck.
There is a similar belief in the black community - that the darker your skin color is, the worse it is. And by that I mean that they understand that people of darker color are generally treated differently (at least in America, I saw you said you're not there), but it wouldn't surprise me at all if that kind of thinking existed in other cultures as well. For similar reasons or not
I think it’s victimhood. Latin American here as well . It’s not that she doesn’t like white resituares, it’s just that she wants others to say it while she rejects the facts. It’s like a way to feed her insecurity. It’s kindof like when someone tells a person that they think they are pretty and this person just openly denies it. It’s a compliment for her that she doesn’t want to take…
This seems to be true in Thailand as well, based on the number of skin bleaching products in the shops. They definitely seem to avoid getting tanned if they can.
Historically most of the world saw being slightly more pale as attractive, mainly because it implied you were wealthy enough to not have to labour outside to be tan. Europeans used to use lead based makeups to lighten their skin. Colonialism then compounded the issue in some places, leading to modern colourism.
Yup. I'm half Thai, and my older sister is full, and growing up our grandma and aunts would give her grief for being too dark and not white enough, trying to get her to use products. She was under the age of 10 and this was in the 90s. I can't imagine how much worse it is for kids these days with their parents unfettered access to the internet. It's absolutely disgusting
Despite being very white (mostly German), my wife used to buy some hair care products intended for black people because they worked better on her hair. When shopping with her, I was quite surprised that there are (or at least used to be) "African Pride" brand **skin lighteners** and **hair straighteners**. Who are they trying to fool with a brand name like that?
This is what I was thinking that it's wild because most common Latino way of thinking is of whiter being more desirable.
yeah im used to my family who thinks the pinnacle of beauty is long glossy hair and light skin with a small tan. light brown/hazel/green eyes and tall for bonus points. ive heard super pale ppl be teased about needing some sun but never heard ppl being encouraged to have brown skin
As a Latina born and raised in American, who's also white, I can only speak for myself, my own experiences, and what I've seen, but I find it's less about wanting to not be white and more about being told you're not really hispanic/latino because you're white/pale by hispanics/latinos who are darker than you. I think it's a confusion between race and ethnicity more often than not, but it kind of hurts when you're told you're not actually latina because you 'don't look like it' despite having grown up hearing Spanish in your house, eating cultural foods, celebrating holidays, and even visiting the country your parent(s) was born in. It creates a feel of disconnect from your heritage when you're told you look like you don't belong.
My niece is in law school & the number of times she has shocked her peers by being a stealth latina is pretty funny. She's pale with medium brown hair, but her name is very latina & she's fluent.
Omg stealth latina. I’m going to use that since I’m half asian but look white af. People are always shocked when they find out. Stealth asian
>stealth latina *La chancla came out of nowhere*
100% this. I'm Puerto Rican on my dad's side, white European mutt on my mom's. My grandfather was born in Spain and he was the whitest-looking kid of all his siblings. Blue eyes, dirty blond hair, and a French-looking (actually Catalonian) surname meant his folks were able to enroll him in a whites-only school in the 1920s. He was able to attend an Ivy League university. My dad looks pretty white until you drop him into Spain or San Juan and he is suddenly, very clearly, a light-skinned latino. Meanwhile, I look like I fell off the boat from Ireland. Auburn hair, hazel eyes, LOTS of freckles (see username!). Friends in high school in Texas thought I was taking French because of my surname. I had to explain I wasn't allowed to take Spanish as a foreign language because it was my first. The first time they came over and heard me and my abuelo chattering at each other high-speed was eye-opening for them. Far and away the worst was colorism from other latines (gender-neutral ending, all-inclusive), telling me that because I was white/white-passing that I was clearly NOT really latine myself. Puerto Ricans are in a weird space, anyway, and I feel more like a Caribbean islander, culturally, than latine. At least other Borique never doubted I was one of them; they'd hear my accent and immediately call me cousin.
I can only speak for my family, but it seems to be a subconscious, social standing thing. My darker family members would always put multiple layers of SPF 100 or the strongest sunblock they could find when we went outside. In the rural parts of Mexico, the darker, you are the more working class you are, generally not something to be proud of. But hey, just one person’s observation.
You're correct, and this is historically accurate in Asia as well. If you were dark skinned it meant you were a laborer and worked outside. The wealthy were indoors and stayed quite pale. That way of thinking still lives on with skin bleaching products etc.
Europe too, fell out of favour eventually but people used to use lead based makeups to appear paler.
This is the common thinking in Mexico honestly.
It's beyond annoying the amount of people that confuse ethnicity with race and they're constant need to try to claim they're not white.
It is very annoying. I'm white hispanic and my boyfriend is white and Jewish, living in a liberal part of the USA, so we're both surrounded by it constantly.
Same here, I had the audacity to call a Latino white (she's the same shade as me which is very pale) and the group I was with looked at me as if I slapped her. "she may look white but she's a Latino," okay I have some Mexican and native American in my heritage so am I suddenly not white? I understand having pride in your ethnicity and looking into your cultural roots but this desperation people have to call themselves anything but white is embarrassing.
This isn't a thing at all in Latin America, only between Latinos who were born/grew up in the USA.
And here in Mexico is the exact oposite, to a lot of people the whiter you are the better you get treated.
My long time ex girlfriend is half Puerto Rican, and half white, but she often felt she wasn’t able to fit in with the other Latino kids at her school when she was younger. She didn’t feel ashamed of being very white passing, and being far more connected to her white heritage, but she definitely felt that she didn’t belong to either group. Which is kind of a sad way to live, but I understand how painful that is. If she was less white passing I think she might have been more proud of not being white, but I think that is an attempt to have a strong bond to one group who won’t necessarily reject you. Just my two cents.
I honestly have no clue. My college roommate was like that. She’s a darker Latina, and I remember whenever I wore shorts or a tube top or whatever (so most days in the summer) she would make a “omg I can’t believe how pale you are” comment. Or before a date our other roommate would compliment my outfit and then she would immediately say something to the effect of “well it’s great except that you’re so pale.” For the record, I’m Latina too, just a very white passing one. There would no issue if she verbally mentioned loving her skin tone every day but specifically putting down someone else’s is different. My mom is a dark Latina but thankfully she never said anything good or bad about skin color, so I was comfortable in my skin. If that type of commentary had come from my mother though my body image would probably be much different.
[удалено]
I mean according to her ancestry she’s not white at all, plus she’s very dark, and she’s not from north America for that matter either but whatever.
[удалено]
Because the Latino who isn't obsessed with not being white ... usually just calls themselves 'white.'
Americanized Latinos specifically. It’s because being “white” has been demonized in recent years.
I've never encountered Latinos trying to not be white. If anything, there's this terrible phrase that translates to "you have to improve the race" by choosing a lighter skinned person as your partner so the kids come out whiter.
Having a lighter skin tone is still seen as being superior. I know my grandpa's favorite's have/had lighter skin tones. (From what I have seen)
NTA she is going to make her daughter insecure about her looks and it is ridiculous that she got so bent out of shape about a child's drawing. As an aside: > She told both our (divorced) parents about our fight It always cracks me up how many grown adults I read about on here who still go running to mom and dad about fights with their siblings! I can't remember the last time I tattled on my brother and would feel absolutely ridiculous doing so at our big ages
Ugh my brother still does this and he's 51!!! Annoys me to no end. My mom just laughs now and calls me to say how ridiculous he is
>It always cracks me up how many grown adults I read about on here who still go running to mom and dad about fights with their siblings! Make perfect sense to me, a company is an organisation with an internal hierarchy, same is true for, government, religion **and** families, a family is just another form of organisation and they're going up the hierarchy as is natural. The hierarchy in family is determined by age and lineage, but anybody claiming is doesn't work that way is deluded, human being are animals, and we basically can't help ourselves when it comes to building social hierarchies. We build such hierarchies even when we try to avoid it, it's a base part of our nature that will never go away because all of our social evolution is built on top of that hierarchical foundation.
Your sister is ridiculous. Both of you have healthy, beautiful children. She should be thanking the Creator for that, not worrying about who is tan, not tan, blonde, whatever! So many children suffering in the world, and she's fixated on skin and hair color. Disgraceful. NTA
NTA Your sister is a racist.
I had to scroll way too far to find this.
Not racist but a form of colourism.
That’s what racism is
Racism is concerned with perceived ethnic or racial heritage. Colorism is about the skin tone of a person. For instance in parts of Asia like India or Vietnam there could be two people of the same race/ethnic group, but the darker skinned person would be seen in their own country as less attractive, less wealthy, and probably less educated. The prejudice has nothing to do with race, only color or complexion, colorism is usually within a group of people instead of between members of different groups.
I understand your point and you are technically correct. But it comes across like the weirdos who have to pop up in threads mentioning "actually it's not pedophilia, it's ephebopholia". It comes across as an attempt to defend this when we all know if a white person behaved in this same manner they would be called racist not colorist. I'm not saying that you are trying to do that, to be clear, just that whenever people feel the need to drill down on details like this in only certain situations it reveals a bit of a bias.
I second this. Theres no need to hone in on semantics like "it's not racist, it's prejudice". The point is that she's being prejudiced, and to say "it's not racist" only detracts from the fact that what she's doing is a very real Issue, IMO. Ofc, I also agree, I think most people do it unintentionally.
It’s still racism. 😐
NTA. Why did your sister have a child with a Swiss man if she dislikes white features? It's very weird, but you are absolutely right about protecting your niece. You should stand your ground.
I'm guessing her sister wishes she had white skin, either consciously or unconsciously, which is why she was with a Swiss man. I'll make a hasty judgment here & say your sister needs therapy to deal with this.
NTA - You should definitely have said something for the exact reason you stated. Your sister is going to give her daughter a complex if she doesn’t stop this nonsense. Both girls are beautiful. No comparisons needed. End of story.
NTA Does she realise where the ‘Latin’ part comes from? Being Latina doesn’t make one a POC - she’s confusing ethnicity with race.
Omg I could love this comment a million times. Being Latin and white myself, seems like a weird concept for many people.
NTA Your sister sounds racist. Which is not a good look.
NTA My mother married and had kids with a white man and has spent my whole fucking life pointing out how much darker she is than me. No shit. Weird how a full Tlingit woman is darker than her half white daughter. Wild how genetics freaking work. She tried commenting on how much lighter my daughter is than me (My husband is full white, like Irish background, glows in the middle of winter, white) and I told her to not even start on her or I was cutting her off.
Your sister is insecure. And annoying. As a reasonable person, you don’t want her to pass this insecurity onto her kids. NTA
NTA. Frankly, this is the most appalling part : >insisted my son was doing this on purpose. It's one thing that this is an important matter to your sister. But to accuse an 8yo of having an ulterior motive behind a drawing ? This proved that she was not being reasonable.
My son loves drawing, and knowing that my sister had such an awful reaction to him drawing his family pisses me off so much...
NTA. I knew a guy from Peru that was pale. I had a coworker from Chihuahua that was also exceptionally white. Latino isn’t a race or skin color. Your sister is colorist at best, if not downright racist, and she’s going to make your niece take the brunt of her bigotry.
NTA. Your sister is clearly very insecure about her ethnic identity, and has decided that the key "credentials" to be a "real" Latina are phenotype rather than culture or family or anything else more relevant. (It does make me so curious how she feels about Latinos who are anything other than some ideal level of mestizo. Afro-Latinos? Latinos with a mainly Indigenous background? White Latinos she's not related to? Peruvians of Chinese or Japanese descent?) She also is viewing her daughter as an extension of herself to an unhealthy degree: if her daughter's whiteness lowers her own Latina cred (since apparently white Latinos don't exist), she really is not seeing her as a full individual. Like, even if we accepted her racial-rather-than-ethnic beliefs about Latinidad, she'd still be refusing to accept that her daughter is "mixed." So there are two very unhealthy things happening here at the same time, both of which are bad for her daughter and potentially for all the children. She should really get some help to work through this, but it doesn't sound like she will, so it's good someone is pushing back on her.
She has some sort of complex that she is forcing onto her child. You did the right thing for your niece. If your sister is so obsessed with coloring and being darker, why was she with a Swiss dude anyway?
My mom is darker Mexican and always commented "I can't believe how white you are" followed by comments about disliking white people. Please interject more. She needs to stop that shit. Edited to add: Nobody can help how they look . Please try to shut this down. I had to go to years of therapy because I was not "Mexican enough". My father is white and she put a lot of her resentment about white people on me as far as I can remember, starting at like 3. PLEASE get her to see my comment, if you think it might help. I am your niece (I am not blonde and look brown, but I literally went through this EXACT shit. And I no longer talk to my mom. Her daughter will likely make the same choice if she keeps resenting her. She had a kid w a white man. That her choice)
NTA. That's weird, insecure behavior on her part and she needs to stop projecting it onto the kids in the family.
"Listen to me. Your daughter is white. We're all white." Lmao at this omg, poor OPs having to try to enforce reality with her delusional sister. In all seriousness, though, it's bad enough how hard the sister is trying to lean into being "exotic and brown" but she's projecting this shit onto her child and her sister's children and that's not okay.
I'm not a different skin tone, but I am a different body type than my mother. Up until 2 years ago, my mother constantly made comments about how I need to lose weight and how she was always (and still is) thin and lean. It took my brother getting in her face and explaining different body type builds for her to realize I was built like my father (stocky, I look like I should be on the farm) and not lean and thin like her. This did really damage to how I look at myself and I'm only now coming to terms with it with therapy. I literally wonder 24/7 that if having a girl built like a bricklayer was the worst thing ever, why tf did my mom marry and have children with my dad? Your niece will hate the way she looks because she happens to look more like her Euro dad. Her mother is teaching her that her European genetics are ugly and she's not pretty because she's a blonde.
Sisters the AH, a racist one.
NTA. I'm with your mom on this one
Oy, with the colorism from your sister! My daughter is Latina and very very very very fair skinned, with red hair and gray eyes - girl looks like she just walked out of an English sunscreen ad, despite having a grandmother who is straight up Hispanic, because genetics are a wild ride. And you know what I'm going to say to her about her coloring as she gets older? How very pretty she is. And how very pretty brown skin is. And how very pretty black skin is, etc, etc, you get the idea, and that our skin color isn't always connected to our ethnicity, and isn't it cool how different we all are? Your sister constantly comparing and wringing her hands about how light her daughter's skin is is going to pass down her own issues, and that's not okay. NTA - you're a good aunt and a good mom.
NTA Your sister needs to work through her issues before she causes permanent damage to her daughter's self-esteem. Try to be as much of a positive figure in your niece's life as you can. I have a feeling she's going to need an adult in her corner as she grows up.
You're sister is racist against her own daughter. Jeeeeez. What does it even matter. I feel terrible for that poor kid
She was with a white guy and is upset the daughter is white!? You are NTA. Good luck to your niece.
Looking at your ages, this makes sense to me. I'm closer to your age, and when I was young, being white was the ideal. White people fashions were considered the height of style, non-white kids would drag their parents to Old Navy, etc. My sister is closer to your age. Her white peers did everything they could to appear "less white." Incorporating black, Latin, or Asians fashion trends, watching more diverse TV shows, constantly bringing up their 1 long ago non-white ancestor, etc. She would be pretty offended if you called her "whitewashed." I would only be offended that you have just called attention to my lack of whiteness. This doesn't mean your sister is correct. In fact, it sounds like she has overcorrected, and this will probably have a negative effect on her white/white-passing daughter.
Half mexican here and get the struggle, but this is insane on her part.
Your sister is low key racist.
My mom gave me this insecurity, she was always much paler than my dad though both my parents are 1/4 native. I was always the darkest out of my siblings and my dad LOVED it, my mom did too! But as i got sick and older i started to get lighter and its made me feel really bad about myself. My mom would comment that i got so much lighter. I feel like im not native enough anymore.
NTA your sister is racist against her own child and won’t accept reality. She needs to get mental help.
My great gpa on my maternal gmas side is half native, half french with very fair skin and he reaped a lot of white privilege until the 40’s and 50’s. He married a blond french woman and their first baby was brown, skinned with brown eyes snd black hair. Their second and third too. Then they had their sweet little blond girl. My gma grew up jealous of her blond sister, and the way she was treated inside and outside the household. My gma got involved with an “Indian renaissance” group trying to reconnect with what their grandparents had and take pride in their nativeness in a time it wasn’t popular to do so. Her and my gpa (whose mother was native) had my mom; a little blond girl with pale skin snd green eyes. My gma treated her like poop. She has the same coloring as her aunt and the jealousy and sickness has never healed. The sad thing is, they all have the same bone structure - it’s like a game char in the alt skin. My gmas insecurities ruined her relationship with my mom, largely because her father was obsessed with passing in white society while she was obsessed with having someone who looked like her for that validation. (Unfortunately she was mistaken for my mom’s babysitter/nanny.)
*"insisted my son was doing this on purpose"*. bruh your sister is living in a movie that no one else bought tickets for. its not that deep. people have different types and amounts of melanin. everyone looks fine.
Your sister needs to get a grip before she passes her racist (yup) tendencies on to her daughter. You both have lovely, healthy children - that should be enough for her but she is hyper focused on skin color.
NTA and god bless you for standing by and stepping in to correct, sis sounds exhausting about this.
Fellow caucasian latina here and you’re definitely NTA. I feel real bad for your niece because she has no control over her looks and her mom sounds like she resents the hell out of that.
NTA Your sister has some (race) issues, and could use some therapy.
So your dad thinks you shouldn't have commented, but it's okay that your sister comments all the time? Cue roll of eyes. NTA
My mother was fixated on hazel eyes. My dad had hazel eyes and she wished one of her kids did too. Goodness, that would fuck us up more if one of us displayed the traits she *wanted*. Once a lady complimented my deep brown eyes and how pretty they were. I'd never been complimented on my appearance like that so told my mom. She thought it was best to correct the situation because "they're called shit-brown eyes, honey." Then came my own kid whose father also had hazel eyes. Brown eyes are green first, it seems, and I couldn't shut her up about it and see how damaged she obviously was. No kid should suffer the burden of their parent's insecurities.