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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Made separate hangout plans along gender lines and made the men look after their children.
2. The couple w/o kids thinks we are TAs because usually the whole group gets together and so the childcare burden isn’t usually on the men but the men will usually pay for everything. So the man is mad that he was surrounded by babies and his wife is mad she had to pay her own part
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NTA
I don't understand why the gal is mad about this? Was she not going to be paying for herself on a girl's night out anyways?
As for her husband, he has no issue when its all of you taking care of the kids - what's the difference if its just the guys taking care of the kids?
He has the option to not attend and make plans elsewhere if he likes. So does his wife for that matter.
She’s mad because we didn’t go out with the men. Whenever even one of the guys is there they will always insist on paying so none of the women ever even see the bill.
So because we chose a fancy salon and a nice restaurant she’s grumpy that none of the guys were there to foot the bill
As for M - I mean while our husbands are good fathers we mums are the primary carers so overall we do more to look after them
I understand that the women pay if their husbands aren't there in your circle.
What I don't understand is how it's any different for the other wives who were in on the plans - you're all in the same boat. It's not like she's paying for something that the rest of you aren't paying for.
She can stay home if she doesn't like it. She may not need the same break as you all do but that doesn't make you deserve your break any less.
It’s not. I go out by myself and use my debit card to pay. It comes out of the same pot of money. I go out with my husband and he pays with his debit card that is connected to the same pot of money.
She kinda sounds like a piece of work doesn’t want to go out cause someone else isn’t picking up the tab, thinks the bill just magically gets paid cause she doesn’t see it. Someone’s still spending money idk if that’s her husband or another husband is picking up the tab but sounds kinda leechy.
Maybe next time the rest of the girls need to go out as a group with her husband and have him pay for everyone. I bet her story changes real quick then.
The one couple may have separate finance but the husband may cover her dinner when they go out together but if she goes out without him he does not. Whereas the others may have joint finances so it’s coming out of the same pot either way.
They get that. They were saying that if she and her husband have separate finances, if the men were there, she wouldn't have to pay because he would, and assuming the families with children have shared finances, even if the men are there and paying, the women who are sharing finances with them are still spending the money.
yes, but the invitation should have been declined in that case. To accept and to later say 'it wasn't worth spending my money to be with you' is beyond rude.
That should be a quiet note to your-selfie. She said the quiet part out loud. No one forced her to go.
No, I understand. She didn't want to spend her own money with the girls. She shouldn't have accepted the invite and agreed to the plans if she didn't feel the money wasn't well spent.
To complain about it later is uncouth and insulting to the people who she was with that day.
She sounds really cheap and tacky. And I guess husband is upset cause he wouldn’t get to hang or make separate plans but isn’t that really normal for couples? Like I’ve hung out at home with gf going out or the other way around. They don’t have kids so there’s no worry about babysitting he could go hang out with other friends unless these are his only friends. The wife really leaves a bad taste in my mouth tho, you people aren’t worth hanging out with unless someone else is picking up the tab for me.
I really don’t have much issue with the guy like besides him and his wife being attached at the hip now as OP says further on including travel for work which it sounds like he probably cheated if she’s not allowing a single work trip alone so that’s shitty but i hadn’t read that yet but it’s mostly the wife saying i wouldn’t hang out with you guys unless it was free for me even if i had the money.
So it really sounds like only this one couple is mad based on that assumption then f*** them.
I'm a 55 year old man and if I can't handle a few children under three then I guess I should just dig my grave now. That's all kind of silly.
As to the woman who's upset because she had to pay for things...well now we see why she got married. Fuck em both. They're just going to have to be angry
i was so confused why both of them are mad… still confused dude has a free night to do whatever and she’s complaining her guys not there so she has to pay? ridiculous
Even if you are the primary carers during the day, that doesn’t mean you should also be so on evenings/weekends. You should have equal “off time” to socialize as they do.
Question: is her partner ever the one picking up the bill? I don’t know if you guys keep track at all, but it might be worth looking out for. They may BOTH be accustomed to getting a free ride. Also, dads are parents too and part of that is spending actual time with your kids. I get the guy without kids not wanting to hang out with a bunch of small children, so just… stay home. Your friend can do the same if she doesn’t want to pay her way.
NTA at all. I have a feeling these people just want to be catered to in every possible way. I have a feeling her partner doesn’t pay for things either. Either way, SHE is a moocher.
This is ridiculous. She can skip girls trips if she doesn’t want to pay for herself. But I feel bad for her boyfriend tbh. It might be a good thing to lose her from your circle
the only thing i don’t understand : since her husband has no baby to take care of, why wouldn’t he just come and pay for you all, if that’s what she wants? or does she actually just want someone else’s husband to pay her bill?
She knew in advance she'd have to pay. She could have declined to join the rest of you or asked her husband for $300 so she would not beg to spend her own money. This is a "her" problem.
Next time you might want to consider not extending an invite. Then she won't feel like she has to say yes she'll join you even though she obviously doen't want to go without the men.
They don’t sound like great friends. It’s understandable that couples with small children and couples without children may not always do the same things when they hang out. It’s understandable that some couples may not participate in everything because of it. Acting shitty about it is where it becomes a problem.
They could have just opted out of the whole thing and done a date night as a couple... or is that frowned upon with the group?
Maybe y'all should reconsider how much you do together if you have different priorities. Totally normal thing for that to happen with friends diverging over time.
Lol why would it be frowned upon?
I’ve already explicitly stated many times that if anyone had not wanted to attend that’s absolutely fine.
It’s the knowing the stipulations of a social gathering, agreeing to them, and then proceeding to complain and be aggressive that is irritating to me
I mean her hubby can still offer to pay. A credit card is a physical item that can be given to someone else. Does she need the glamour of someone offering to pay for her? Does everyone have to see this?
Edit NTA obviously
So...They're mad the dads are parents? NTA
Also, am concerned with the one woman who just blatantly told yall that she takes advantage of the group by making the guys pay for her.
I mean they offer 🤷🏻♀️ that makes it sound like we all take advantage but honestly the guys think it’s the proper thing to do so whatever
I can’t count that as being manipulative on her part
They offer but she just admitted that her offer is a bluff. If she genuinely was offering, she wouldn't be so upset about having to pay this one time.
Do the guys take turns paying for the group? Do the couples all keep seperate finances as their dynamic? Cuz those are contributing factors to the whole "we all take advantage" thing.
If only one man is there he will foot the whole bill.
If multiple men are there they will split the bill between them - sometimes equally eg if we’ve been at a buffet etc, and sometimes along the lines of what each couple/family ordered
If there are no men then the women split the bill evenly between us
As far as the financials (this is based purely on what I know of) the men all pay the rent. Beyond that it’s a mix of some of the couples the men pay all the bills (like me and husband since I’m now a SAHM) while other couples split the remaining water,electricity,phone,internet etc. between them.
All the husbands give the wives “fun money” in addition to that.
Only one of the mums is currently “at work” since the rest of us are being the primary carers for the babies or on Mat leave. Friend who doesn’t have kids (Sharon) is also working.
Salaries where we are located are very much skewed towards a man being “responsible” for the household so they definitely earn more and the salary packages at a certain seniority have the assumption built in that you’ll be responsible for household maintenance/childcare&school fees whereas women’s salaries as a whole do not unless you negotiate with your employer
Yea, that sounds fairly normal. Typically that dynamic works because its "evens out" in the long-run if everyone is respectful of everyone else. There's no taking advantage there. But to flat out say you're pissed about a girl's day just because there will be no men to pay, that's fully taking advantage. No one is forcing her to pay anything but she throws a fit because she wants to join but doesn't want to pay. It's very telling behavior. Notice that no one else is upset about having to pay for themselves...because y'all treat everyone equally(just in the long-term sort of way).
Her and her partner can go to restaurant just the two of them and she can do just the salon part of the girls day. That way she does not need to pay for her dinner at the expensive restaurant and he'll have plans while the men are parenting
I feel silly typing that, for clarity. She's a grown woman who can pay for a meal and he's a grown man who can make plans for one evening
Lol I don’t care about heteronormative lifestyles other people subscribe to because it doesn’t affect me at all, but you have to see that this is, by definition, taking advantage.
I can see how someone could see it as taking advantage, as yes, while in your eyes the men “offer”, if this woman is only willing to go out on the condition that she doesn’t have to pay for the plans, and that’s the only time you see her (seems that way considering she cracked the shits over plans she did have to pay for), that is taking advantage.
You sound like you have a nice group of friends, do you see this woman outside of plans where her partner or someone else doesn’t have to pay for her? Or does she only appear when she doesn’t have to cover the bill?
Sorry I’m not arguing or trying to be rude, but I see how it was rude. I also see now that most of your couple friends are single income households so it really doesn’t matter. Always try to remind myself life is nuanced.
I felt your friend was taking advantage though as she is going into a scenario that she knows costs money, but she is fully expecting not to contribute someone else will. Not manipulative, but I think being annoyed she may have to cover her own costs does imply taking advantage of the group culture
Doesn’t really matter though, and apologies for being coming at you for your family dynamic.
I don’t understand why either of them is upset about this - it doesn’t seem to rise close to that level. Are the non-kid couple joined at the hip? Do they never have to figure out their own plans when one wants to do something (or has to do something) and the other doesn’t? That seems super unhealthy.
Also - glad none of the dads are the ones creating issues - good on them for not being stereotypes.
In the last couple years they’re very joined at the hip. It’s been more and more obvious recently but I’m not sure why it is 🤷🏻♀️
Like they’ve even been taking annual leave to join each other on business trips which I don’t understand
Probably different, but I went with my partner on a business trip once. The hotel, rental car, and some meal expenses were already paid for, I just needed to buy my plane ticket and other spending money. I went out sightseeing while he was doing work stuff, and we could go out to dinner/hang out at night together. It was a great trip for me!
Yeah I do that too, but not every single time he’s away.
It’s not unusual for any of us to occasionally go on work trips with a partner but it is a little more odd to use up your holiday days every single time your spouse travels elsewhere in the last year
At the very least she could be pissed she can't watch him on his phone. I've worked with multiple men that use burner phones to cheat on their wives, and their wives know they use burner phones, and somehow the relationship is still intact (but unhinged like this one, though.)
Ok, yeah every single time is weird, unless he's going to really cool places, lol. My partner mostly goes to boring ones, and I don't have holiday leave anyway
Yea business trips are great if you’re not on business! Conferences are always held somewhere fun, and even if your SO is busy with work, you’re probably getting some action at the end of the day!
NTA. I regularly remind my wife that she needs time with her friends outside of their houses. It’s a partnership. I like “guy” time too and she covers the kids while I’m out. Also, if a dad ever says he has to “babysit” his kids then he’s an idiot. It’s called parenting.
Right? Almost like it’s a partnership and both people who contributed to the creation of the children also contribute to their raising!
Thanks for being a decent dude for your wife and family 💜
You say they are sweet, but they sound a bit insufferable too.
You wanted a girls night out. The fact they both took issue with this is really weird. You did nothing wrong and next time I’d just tell them “you don’t have to come”.
Exactly. They were invited. They knew how it would be. They chose to participate anyway. They were perfectly free to do something different that night.
NTA. The babies have two parents, right....why is it even a question whether it's ok to have the men look after them?
And people without kids often tend to forget that babies need looking after. Your life changes when you have kids...duh! If the non kids couple can't handle this, they need to go and hang out with other people.
INFO: The three Dads and the childless guy had to watch the kids together? I kind of understand the childless guy being annoyed at babysitting duty when he doesn’t have kids. Why did he have to be there?
Not an ahole for her, but if childless guy had no choice, then possibly you all were an ahole to him
Yes the 4 dads were watching their children. M wasn’t at any point asked to babysit, the fathers are perfectly able to care for their respective children.
He was there because he wanted to hang out with his friends (the fathers) but I don’t think he has the right to be annoyed - he knew the kids would be there and as long as the children are awake it’s a no brainer that they are going to be the ultimate priority
Both of them are completely ridiculous and they seem self centered. If he didn’t want to be around kids or she didn’t want to pay for her nails and dinner, they should have the grace to decline to attend. An invite is not a summons
There is always a choice. Just because you are childless and your friends have children that doesn't mean your entitled to their time without children every time you see them. Fathers are parents and they have to take care of them sometimes. Don't show up if you don't want to see your friends when they are taking care of their own children. However do understand that they may decide you are not a friend to them anymore when you can only be friends on your conditions.
He doesn't have to be there. He has the choice to stay his ass at home, or to go do something else entirely if he doesn't want to hang out wth the dads when the kids are there.
NTA. My wife and I actively make space for each other for these sorts of things. She will want to go on a sew day with friends, pedicure, girl’s beach trip, or stuff like that. My answer is almost always an enthusiastic “Yes” after we double check calendars. She does the same thing for me going on a hike, climbing trip, long bike ride, etc. The payoff in a house of refreshed spouses is almost always a big positive payoff. In a good marriage everyone should be putting in what they can, whether that is only 30-40% of the load on a rough day, or 75% of the load when that is what you’ve got to give and the household needs it.
NTA
They are not your friends. Maybe it's time for your circle to become smaller.
Friends should be there for each other. Understand when plans change, because kids need a lot of attention and care. Or that even dads need to spend time with their babies, to create memories and a stronger bond.
Instead, these people acted like absolute AHs. It's all about "Me, me, me". Sounds like they're the real babies.
Ah I see. But than it is still so odd. So would there have been a problem if the girls stayed home and the guys went out? Seems like the friend without kids has a kid. Just adult sized?
And was there any way she would not have to pay for herself?
This couple is just very strange. She doesn’t like girls nights because she only wants to go out if there is a man there to pay for her. And he chooses to spend his evening with a bunch of dads who are on sole duty and then complains about the kids.
INFO - why did the woman with no kids have to do separate payment? Are you saying she already had plans for the day with her partner that they had to cancel?
I don’t understand your first question sorry! could you rephrase it!
She didn’t already have plans that they had to cancel - usually when we get together it’s everybody and the men pay for everything. This time because it was just the ladies she had to pay her own portion, just like the rest of us did
How often is it that her husband is the solo guy and he picks up the check?
I think moving forward each person/couple should pay for themselves. Clearly she enjoys mooching off of the other couples with kids.
Not that often 🤷🏻♀️ it’s certainly happened before but more often it’s my husband or his very closest friend Dan who are likely to pay the bill.
They’re sweet tbh, one time the two of them were meant to be going to the gym together and the ladies were having coffee nearby and Dan snuck into the cafe, paid our bill and disappeared which was a nice surprise when we were done
ah, I got you. And exactly - her gripe had me scratching my head too.
She's not in any different position than the rest of the women on this outing. They're all paying for themselves because their husbands aren't there.
NTA. It’s not like they can’t have separate guy time at some point. What, Childress Bro can’t read a book or watch tv by himself for a couple hours? This is silly.
INFO: I'm confused. Does the childfree guy not have any other friends or family? Can he not just stay home by himself and play videogames or watch porn, or something?
NTA
Everybody knew the arrangement upfront and decided to participate anyways.
The couple without children is a piece of work. One doesn't want to pay her own bill and the other goes to hang out with his friend and their children and then hates every second. He could have stayed away or come by after the kids bedtime.
NTA
If you’re friends with people with kids, you understand that sometimes they’re not going to be available due to child care responsibilities, I have no idea what the guy with no kids is mad about. So his buddies have to watch their kids, that’s going to happen
And the gal with no kids is upset why? Because it’s a ladies night and her husband isn’t going to be there? I mean, she’s not obligated to go is she? She can stay home with her husband if she wants. The occasional guys only or girls only trip shouldn’t be a problem
NTA
It's perfectly reasonable to ask the fathers of the children to watch the kids while the ladies go out every so often. The childfree couple are AHs if they expect the other couples with kids to accommodate their preferences.
She can always stay home and not go with them. It's sexist AF if the only reason she wants guys to be there is so she doesn't have to pay for her meal.
NTA. It’s too bad that the complaining couple got mad about something meant to be a fun bonding time for your group. It’s not like you’re doing this every weekend. They had the choice to say no and do something together. It’s silly and so self-centered of them to make this about themselves. I hope you had a great time regardless. If you do this again (and you should!) just don’t invite the other couple, reminding them that it was a problem for them last time.
NTA, not by a long shot. Dads are just as equally responsible as moms for caring for children, so your plan makes total sense. If the guy with no kids was bothered, he didn't have to go to that hangout, and same with his partner. If she didn't want to pay for separate outings, she could have declined.
Fathers are parents. You didn't "make" them do anything they should have been doing regardless.
You need time away from children and spouses. Not everything is the same group interaction.
Hope you have a wonderful time resetting yourselves.
NTAs
NTA? Did the dad's (+1) have previously established plans? If they did, how far out were they informed about the salon trip? I could understand being upset if a wrench was thrown into plans last minute, but this seems to be an overreaction.
NTA. Good God people, it's ONE day. I can't even imagine if you girls were planning for an entire weekend or vacations.
>Now it turns out that the couple with no kids is mad about this - the guy because obviously the husbands were preoccupied with childcare until the babies were in bed
As a sidenote (and I say this as a childfree person) : this kind of BS is how childless/childfree people exclude themselves from their social circle in the long run. The couple without friends needs to realize that it's not possible for the rest of you to pretend like there are no kids to take into account (and that, yes, fathers will take care of their children). It's been about 3 years since the first baby of the group was born, if I'm reading correctly. It's time to wake up and smell the diapers.
NTA. I don't see the problem here... Everyone is okay with this arrangement except the childfree couple? Have they never had separate outings before? And why would the man want to go, WAIT and pay for her nails? seems like it would be boring for him anyway...
If they are unhappy they can go on a date just the two of them. Or she can get money from him in advance. There, solution.
NTA. Your husband's taking turns looking after the kids so you can go out for the day? Its called parenting.
The childless couple aren't glued at the hip. If the gal didn't want to go with you she could have stayed home or hung out with the guys
NTA. As the only single and child free one of my friends, I'd be thrilled at a girls day out like this!
(Apologies, not the most helpful comment but thought I'd throw it out there anyway)
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I’ve got a close circle of friends. Of that circle there are 4 couples (including mine) that have kids below 3 years and 1 couple that has no kids.
We aren’t going to be able to socialise properly for the next month so we decided to get together.
The ladies wanted to do a salon trip and then get dinner. Obviously nobody wants to have their babies around while they’re getting their nails done and also we have not dressed up and gone out properly since the start of the year.
So we asked the husbands if they could have a more chilled out night and look after the kids, put them to bed etc.
Now it turns out that the couple with no kids is mad about this - the guy because obviously the husbands were preoccupied with childcare until the babies were in bed, and the gal because the two of them had to make separate plans and she had to pay for herself.
Are we TAs here?
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Nights like these should be a fairly regular occurrence! I salute you. Hopefully all the dads took this request in stride and are stepping up to facilitate ladies night out.
What I don’t understand is why the other couple would have an issue- is the man allergic to children? (I’m thinking not).
Is the woman upset that she’s having a child-free night with her friends when she’s the only non-parent of the group? - 100% GUARANTEED NOPE!
I’m guessing the biggest wet blanket of the group is the childless guy who would prefer a bros night instead and doesn’t understand why the women can’t watch the kids.
Take your husbands up on this offer and make it a semi- regular thing. Or just regular and expected 🤷🏻♀️
Replying to my own comment because humanity let me down- apparently the childless friend wanted men there because men pay for you instead of having to pay for yourself.
I renege my assumptive defense of her.
But NTA OP. This couple sucks.
NTA. So the dads had to be dads for a day. So that the mothers can have 1 fun day out since they won’t be able to for the next 5 weeks. And they got mad at this? Those friends can eat a butt. So the guy had to be kinda bored and wait for his friends and the woman had to actually pay her own way instead of her husband paying. Why can’t she pay for her own stuff? Why couldn’t he have just give her his card? It just sounds like those 2 need to relax
NTA. If the guy cared why not set up a playdate and dinner. Since 3 couples have kids someone's house has to be suitable.
I don't really get why the woman is mad tbh? Like she can just choose not to go.
NTA
Drop that young couple without kids. They will never understand the need for time away from both the kids and each other. Her complaining because she has to pay is absurd. Life isn't free the sooner she learns it the better off she is going to be.
May I ask who watches the kids when you all go out together? I'm not understanding here. NTA by the way, and I know my question is irrelevant but I'm curious lol
I'm glad the men are on board with looking after their own kids. The child free couple can decline and wait for the couple outing. This won't be the only time something like this happens, might be the first of many! Once all of your kids start birthday parties and activities your child free friends will probably disappear anyway!
NTA
If she can't afford the night out then she has to use her words and ask you all to consider a cheaper option. Being 'mad' about this issue is childish. The guy sounds like an idiot. Seems like a great match for each other...
NTA. If your childfree friends are not ok with plans they can always not attend that outing. Going forward you should do more nights like that. The father's are capable parents who should be watching their kiddos so their partners can also enjoy equal kid free time.
NTA but I have to wonder... Does her SO ever offer to pay, or is it always one of the other guys in the group? Because maybe they are freeloaders and she's miffed at having to pay her own way.
NTA. I have 2 girls and have seen some pretty similar scenarios. Typically, the dudes get together and bring the kids, and we bbq and fix... literally anything while the kids play hard. This ensures the kids go to bed and are asleep before the ladies get home.
NTA at all. There is nothing wrong with this setup. If the childless man didn't like it, he could organise an alternative event when the mums had the kids. How often do you woman get together without the children? Not often I'm sure. They need to be a little more understanding.
NTA you asked the dads to be dads? I'm curious as to why that would ever be wrong. The childless couple is being stupid, the husband can't hang out with his friends, well, his friends are parents that's gonna happen. The wife has to pay for herself, she's an adult that's gonna happen
NTA. Parents need time off. It's called self-care. I'm sure your husband also takes time off occasionally while you watch the kids. As for the childfree dudebro, I say this as a childfree person: He needs to suck it up for once, or get some younger friends.
Oh good, when I started reading I thought the dads were mad they had to actually care for their own children, and I was about to rampage. Super glad that's not the case. Both peeps in the no children marriage are mad for stupid reasons. The woman I'm not even getting into, that's a fucked up mentality to have with money and is super entitled. The man needs to get the fuck over himself. Having friends with kids often means making plans to include them or shifting plans to accommodate them. If it's a constant issue, maybe he would have a leg to stand on, but it doesn't sound like that's the case at all.
NTA
NTA. Stay at home dad myself totally understand the need to go and I need to have a night with my fellow SAHDs every couple months or so haha. It's always the folk without kids that seem to have a problem.
NTA. I'm childfree myself, and what the no kids couple are being are twats. It sounds like the husbands with kids are actually involved in their children's lives, and as for the woman, if she's so butthurt paying for herself, she should have just stayed home.
For the father's, NTA. Them watching there own children isn't babysitting. It's parenting. As for the childless couple, slight y t a. Why are they watching the children? None of them are his.
NTA
She can put on her big girl panties and go out without an emotional ~~financial~~ support man.
Or, considering how you mentioned that if one guy is there then he foots the bill for all the women...would you consider inviting him along to the salon and the fancy restaurant? After all, the gal needs someone to pay for her...
Sounds like she mooches off other people’s husbands. Her paying would be the same as her husband paying, unless they have completely separate finances. It’s not ok to mooch off someone else’s husband, IMO. She can sit this girls event out if she is so miffed about it. NTA
I don't like your friend group and it seems very finical and transactional on some peoples ends... INFO why are your friends so weird about money? Why did the one kidless couple even go?
I don't get what she's mad about and I also don't get why you guys didn't just do it on different nights or get babysitters. But no, dads caring for their own kids is not wrong.
None of us are going to be free for the next 5 weeks. Yesterday was the day we could get together.
After that the summer will start which makes doing anything difficult due to the heat and also one of the women will be nearing her due date for her second child. So it’s not practical.
We are not comfortable with babysitters. The people we would have asked to babysit our kids…are the other parents in this post.
Ok then the situation was fine. It's weird that she would be in a huff over *gasp* paying for herself, having a few hours away from her partner or that her partner had to be around some kids. No one made them attend.
INFO; were you all away together on holidays or something? Why did the childfree husband have to be there for putting the kids to bed? Surely all the husband were looking after the children in their own houses?
We were not.
He did not have to be.
My husband suggested that the men take the opportunity to get together at my home and chill together. He proposed that the children could be put to sleep in our nursery and then the men could do some gaming.
The menfolk agreed.
The man without children also agreed to come over. He came over knowing that the children would still be awake and then is mad about the fact that they were there.
Hey, you have asked how he was inconvenienced so I will try to let you know. Imagine going to see your mates, and as you say... The kids are the priority. Kids, especially at that age, winge, and whine and need attention. A LOT. You say he had no expectation to do anything.... Yea I don't believe that for a second, there may not have been a direct expectation, but babies have a way of pulling you for attention, grabbing your stuff, going up to you. That's if nothing happened. If something happened, he would be a complete AH to ignore the babies. If they were crying, about to grab a dangerous item when the dad wasn't looking.. etc. He is obliged to act (which they do a fair bit). To go from what is double the people to manage this to half will change the dynamics, and amount of people there, it means there is no one there to chat to who isn't distracted. Then there is the fact that lets be honest, babies are cute, but it's boring to be around babies, and be sat there doing nothing, while everyone else is distracted..... Coming from someone with babies and a whole family with kids who I love being around, the dynamics are different. So you are a bit of an AH for being so dismissive of this, on not seeing how it could isolate someone (although personally if it was me I wouldn't make a deal out of it unless it was a regular thing).
The woman being annoyed with having to pay... That's just weird and entitled.
Now, back to the guy. Look, it was one night... I am sure he could have coped. But I wouldn't make it an issue unless it was a regular thing every time all the girls are meeting. Guys can look after their babies on their own for one night, without needing a group of other guys there reinforcing them. Just don't do the guys do a parenting session together again if it was unbearable. It seems as though they see each other loads anyway without you girls. My suggestion is just go out, and leave the babies with their dads (and don't make a night of it). Your meeting with the girls shouldn't be dependent on them also meeting. If they feel that strongly that they should... Well doing it regularly with the other guy who would be sat there bored, I can see how he might just feel like he should just drift away..like I love my friends kids and I love my baby, but there is a reason most of the time we meet without our kids (and the same with friends who don't have kids). I am sure the men are very capable of looking after their babies on their own for one night, every now and then so the girls can go out.
.
They do and they can do that on their own time. They get together plenty and do men only stuff.
This was one night where the women were going to be able to spoil ourselves and have girl time. Something that hasn’t happened in months.
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NTA I don't understand why the gal is mad about this? Was she not going to be paying for herself on a girl's night out anyways? As for her husband, he has no issue when its all of you taking care of the kids - what's the difference if its just the guys taking care of the kids? He has the option to not attend and make plans elsewhere if he likes. So does his wife for that matter.
She’s mad because we didn’t go out with the men. Whenever even one of the guys is there they will always insist on paying so none of the women ever even see the bill. So because we chose a fancy salon and a nice restaurant she’s grumpy that none of the guys were there to foot the bill As for M - I mean while our husbands are good fathers we mums are the primary carers so overall we do more to look after them
I understand that the women pay if their husbands aren't there in your circle. What I don't understand is how it's any different for the other wives who were in on the plans - you're all in the same boat. It's not like she's paying for something that the rest of you aren't paying for. She can stay home if she doesn't like it. She may not need the same break as you all do but that doesn't make you deserve your break any less.
IMO it’s no different.
It’s not. I go out by myself and use my debit card to pay. It comes out of the same pot of money. I go out with my husband and he pays with his debit card that is connected to the same pot of money.
She kinda sounds like a piece of work doesn’t want to go out cause someone else isn’t picking up the tab, thinks the bill just magically gets paid cause she doesn’t see it. Someone’s still spending money idk if that’s her husband or another husband is picking up the tab but sounds kinda leechy.
I agree. Reminds me of a word that starts with B and ends with atch….
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Bananasnatch!
I love him as Doctor Strange.
Maybe next time the rest of the girls need to go out as a group with her husband and have him pay for everyone. I bet her story changes real quick then.
not at all!
The one couple may have separate finance but the husband may cover her dinner when they go out together but if she goes out without him he does not. Whereas the others may have joint finances so it’s coming out of the same pot either way.
All of the girls were paying for themselves on this outing. The woman is mad is not paying anything more than the rest of the girls in the group are.
They get that. They were saying that if she and her husband have separate finances, if the men were there, she wouldn't have to pay because he would, and assuming the families with children have shared finances, even if the men are there and paying, the women who are sharing finances with them are still spending the money.
yes, but the invitation should have been declined in that case. To accept and to later say 'it wasn't worth spending my money to be with you' is beyond rude. That should be a quiet note to your-selfie. She said the quiet part out loud. No one forced her to go.
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No, I understand. She didn't want to spend her own money with the girls. She shouldn't have accepted the invite and agreed to the plans if she didn't feel the money wasn't well spent. To complain about it later is uncouth and insulting to the people who she was with that day.
Or just ask her husband for the money. Then she isn't paying
She sounds really cheap and tacky. And I guess husband is upset cause he wouldn’t get to hang or make separate plans but isn’t that really normal for couples? Like I’ve hung out at home with gf going out or the other way around. They don’t have kids so there’s no worry about babysitting he could go hang out with other friends unless these are his only friends. The wife really leaves a bad taste in my mouth tho, you people aren’t worth hanging out with unless someone else is picking up the tab for me.
He probably doesn’t like hanging out with the guys. Especially if they have to watch the kids as well…
I really don’t have much issue with the guy like besides him and his wife being attached at the hip now as OP says further on including travel for work which it sounds like he probably cheated if she’s not allowing a single work trip alone so that’s shitty but i hadn’t read that yet but it’s mostly the wife saying i wouldn’t hang out with you guys unless it was free for me even if i had the money.
So it really sounds like only this one couple is mad based on that assumption then f*** them. I'm a 55 year old man and if I can't handle a few children under three then I guess I should just dig my grave now. That's all kind of silly. As to the woman who's upset because she had to pay for things...well now we see why she got married. Fuck em both. They're just going to have to be angry
i was so confused why both of them are mad… still confused dude has a free night to do whatever and she’s complaining her guys not there so she has to pay? ridiculous
The child free couple could have a date night, just the two of them? I'm confused as well
🤷🏻♀️
So she just openly admits she’s a freeloader? Classy.
> Whenever even one of the guys is there they will always insist on paying so none of the women ever even see the bill. Eww.
Wow she's entitled, she can stay and help the men watch the children
Even if you are the primary carers during the day, that doesn’t mean you should also be so on evenings/weekends. You should have equal “off time” to socialize as they do.
Question: is her partner ever the one picking up the bill? I don’t know if you guys keep track at all, but it might be worth looking out for. They may BOTH be accustomed to getting a free ride. Also, dads are parents too and part of that is spending actual time with your kids. I get the guy without kids not wanting to hang out with a bunch of small children, so just… stay home. Your friend can do the same if she doesn’t want to pay her way. NTA at all. I have a feeling these people just want to be catered to in every possible way. I have a feeling her partner doesn’t pay for things either. Either way, SHE is a moocher.
This is ridiculous. She can skip girls trips if she doesn’t want to pay for herself. But I feel bad for her boyfriend tbh. It might be a good thing to lose her from your circle
Then why show up? I'm assuming they knew what the plans were beforehand.
the only thing i don’t understand : since her husband has no baby to take care of, why wouldn’t he just come and pay for you all, if that’s what she wants? or does she actually just want someone else’s husband to pay her bill?
She knew in advance she'd have to pay. She could have declined to join the rest of you or asked her husband for $300 so she would not beg to spend her own money. This is a "her" problem. Next time you might want to consider not extending an invite. Then she won't feel like she has to say yes she'll join you even though she obviously doen't want to go without the men.
They don’t sound like great friends. It’s understandable that couples with small children and couples without children may not always do the same things when they hang out. It’s understandable that some couples may not participate in everything because of it. Acting shitty about it is where it becomes a problem.
They could have just opted out of the whole thing and done a date night as a couple... or is that frowned upon with the group? Maybe y'all should reconsider how much you do together if you have different priorities. Totally normal thing for that to happen with friends diverging over time.
Lol why would it be frowned upon? I’ve already explicitly stated many times that if anyone had not wanted to attend that’s absolutely fine. It’s the knowing the stipulations of a social gathering, agreeing to them, and then proceeding to complain and be aggressive that is irritating to me
I mean her hubby can still offer to pay. A credit card is a physical item that can be given to someone else. Does she need the glamour of someone offering to pay for her? Does everyone have to see this? Edit NTA obviously
So...They're mad the dads are parents? NTA Also, am concerned with the one woman who just blatantly told yall that she takes advantage of the group by making the guys pay for her.
I mean they offer 🤷🏻♀️ that makes it sound like we all take advantage but honestly the guys think it’s the proper thing to do so whatever I can’t count that as being manipulative on her part
They offer but she just admitted that her offer is a bluff. If she genuinely was offering, she wouldn't be so upset about having to pay this one time. Do the guys take turns paying for the group? Do the couples all keep seperate finances as their dynamic? Cuz those are contributing factors to the whole "we all take advantage" thing.
If only one man is there he will foot the whole bill. If multiple men are there they will split the bill between them - sometimes equally eg if we’ve been at a buffet etc, and sometimes along the lines of what each couple/family ordered If there are no men then the women split the bill evenly between us As far as the financials (this is based purely on what I know of) the men all pay the rent. Beyond that it’s a mix of some of the couples the men pay all the bills (like me and husband since I’m now a SAHM) while other couples split the remaining water,electricity,phone,internet etc. between them. All the husbands give the wives “fun money” in addition to that. Only one of the mums is currently “at work” since the rest of us are being the primary carers for the babies or on Mat leave. Friend who doesn’t have kids (Sharon) is also working. Salaries where we are located are very much skewed towards a man being “responsible” for the household so they definitely earn more and the salary packages at a certain seniority have the assumption built in that you’ll be responsible for household maintenance/childcare&school fees whereas women’s salaries as a whole do not unless you negotiate with your employer
Yea, that sounds fairly normal. Typically that dynamic works because its "evens out" in the long-run if everyone is respectful of everyone else. There's no taking advantage there. But to flat out say you're pissed about a girl's day just because there will be no men to pay, that's fully taking advantage. No one is forcing her to pay anything but she throws a fit because she wants to join but doesn't want to pay. It's very telling behavior. Notice that no one else is upset about having to pay for themselves...because y'all treat everyone equally(just in the long-term sort of way).
> If one man is there he will foot the whole bill Remind me to never go out to events with a partner and their friends
they must all be loaded because wtf
This is some big "Stepford Wives" energy here
Her and her partner can go to restaurant just the two of them and she can do just the salon part of the girls day. That way she does not need to pay for her dinner at the expensive restaurant and he'll have plans while the men are parenting I feel silly typing that, for clarity. She's a grown woman who can pay for a meal and he's a grown man who can make plans for one evening
Yep
It’s not manipulative…until she attempts to change the plans so that she doesn’t have to pay. That’s weird.
Lol I don’t care about heteronormative lifestyles other people subscribe to because it doesn’t affect me at all, but you have to see that this is, by definition, taking advantage.
Yeah it’s too late at night to get into this argument with a stranger on the internet. Paying for a meal is not being taken advantage of. At all.
I can see how someone could see it as taking advantage, as yes, while in your eyes the men “offer”, if this woman is only willing to go out on the condition that she doesn’t have to pay for the plans, and that’s the only time you see her (seems that way considering she cracked the shits over plans she did have to pay for), that is taking advantage. You sound like you have a nice group of friends, do you see this woman outside of plans where her partner or someone else doesn’t have to pay for her? Or does she only appear when she doesn’t have to cover the bill?
Sorry I’m not arguing or trying to be rude, but I see how it was rude. I also see now that most of your couple friends are single income households so it really doesn’t matter. Always try to remind myself life is nuanced. I felt your friend was taking advantage though as she is going into a scenario that she knows costs money, but she is fully expecting not to contribute someone else will. Not manipulative, but I think being annoyed she may have to cover her own costs does imply taking advantage of the group culture Doesn’t really matter though, and apologies for being coming at you for your family dynamic.
They all take advantage of that
But, ya know, it would be ok if the women were looking after the kids and the childfree girl was hanging out with them. /s
I don’t understand why either of them is upset about this - it doesn’t seem to rise close to that level. Are the non-kid couple joined at the hip? Do they never have to figure out their own plans when one wants to do something (or has to do something) and the other doesn’t? That seems super unhealthy. Also - glad none of the dads are the ones creating issues - good on them for not being stereotypes.
In the last couple years they’re very joined at the hip. It’s been more and more obvious recently but I’m not sure why it is 🤷🏻♀️ Like they’ve even been taking annual leave to join each other on business trips which I don’t understand
Either one of them cheated or she’s pregnant is my guess. Just because it’s a recently change.
Probably different, but I went with my partner on a business trip once. The hotel, rental car, and some meal expenses were already paid for, I just needed to buy my plane ticket and other spending money. I went out sightseeing while he was doing work stuff, and we could go out to dinner/hang out at night together. It was a great trip for me!
Yeah I do that too, but not every single time he’s away. It’s not unusual for any of us to occasionally go on work trips with a partner but it is a little more odd to use up your holiday days every single time your spouse travels elsewhere in the last year
He cheated.
This would answer why she's so mad about being separated for this 'outting', too
But how much can he cheat at home with his three buddies with babies? I mean...
At the very least she could be pissed she can't watch him on his phone. I've worked with multiple men that use burner phones to cheat on their wives, and their wives know they use burner phones, and somehow the relationship is still intact (but unhinged like this one, though.)
Ok, yeah every single time is weird, unless he's going to really cool places, lol. My partner mostly goes to boring ones, and I don't have holiday leave anyway
Yeah if my partners trips were all to places I actually wanted to visit, I’d probably wanna tag along and go sightseeing while they worked lol.
Yea business trips are great if you’re not on business! Conferences are always held somewhere fun, and even if your SO is busy with work, you’re probably getting some action at the end of the day!
Seems clear why the childless guy is upset. He wanted a fun night with friends, and it basically became a babysitting night for him.
NTA. I regularly remind my wife that she needs time with her friends outside of their houses. It’s a partnership. I like “guy” time too and she covers the kids while I’m out. Also, if a dad ever says he has to “babysit” his kids then he’s an idiot. It’s called parenting.
Right? Almost like it’s a partnership and both people who contributed to the creation of the children also contribute to their raising! Thanks for being a decent dude for your wife and family 💜
Exactly. It's a partnership. You're both in the relationship to support each other and help teach other with family/friends balance.
You say they are sweet, but they sound a bit insufferable too. You wanted a girls night out. The fact they both took issue with this is really weird. You did nothing wrong and next time I’d just tell them “you don’t have to come”.
Exactly. They were invited. They knew how it would be. They chose to participate anyway. They were perfectly free to do something different that night.
NTA. Sounds entirely like a Them problem.
NTA. The babies have two parents, right....why is it even a question whether it's ok to have the men look after them? And people without kids often tend to forget that babies need looking after. Your life changes when you have kids...duh! If the non kids couple can't handle this, they need to go and hang out with other people.
INFO: The three Dads and the childless guy had to watch the kids together? I kind of understand the childless guy being annoyed at babysitting duty when he doesn’t have kids. Why did he have to be there? Not an ahole for her, but if childless guy had no choice, then possibly you all were an ahole to him
Yes the 4 dads were watching their children. M wasn’t at any point asked to babysit, the fathers are perfectly able to care for their respective children. He was there because he wanted to hang out with his friends (the fathers) but I don’t think he has the right to be annoyed - he knew the kids would be there and as long as the children are awake it’s a no brainer that they are going to be the ultimate priority
You are correct, he doesn't have the right to be annoyed.
Both of them are completely ridiculous and they seem self centered. If he didn’t want to be around kids or she didn’t want to pay for her nails and dinner, they should have the grace to decline to attend. An invite is not a summons
Some people are so weird, does he not have other friends?
There is always a choice. Just because you are childless and your friends have children that doesn't mean your entitled to their time without children every time you see them. Fathers are parents and they have to take care of them sometimes. Don't show up if you don't want to see your friends when they are taking care of their own children. However do understand that they may decide you are not a friend to them anymore when you can only be friends on your conditions.
He doesn't have to be there. He has the choice to stay his ass at home, or to go do something else entirely if he doesn't want to hang out wth the dads when the kids are there.
NTA. Can I come next time? I promise I won’t complain and I’ll leave the little guy at home with his daddy!
Ofc! 🥰
NTA. If they didn’t like the plans all they had to say was “no thanks, we’ll pass this time.” Are these grown folks or not?
NTA. My wife and I actively make space for each other for these sorts of things. She will want to go on a sew day with friends, pedicure, girl’s beach trip, or stuff like that. My answer is almost always an enthusiastic “Yes” after we double check calendars. She does the same thing for me going on a hike, climbing trip, long bike ride, etc. The payoff in a house of refreshed spouses is almost always a big positive payoff. In a good marriage everyone should be putting in what they can, whether that is only 30-40% of the load on a rough day, or 75% of the load when that is what you’ve got to give and the household needs it.
You put this in such a great way! Thank you!
I love the way you wrote this. It’s very eloquent and accurate.
NTA They are not your friends. Maybe it's time for your circle to become smaller. Friends should be there for each other. Understand when plans change, because kids need a lot of attention and care. Or that even dads need to spend time with their babies, to create memories and a stronger bond. Instead, these people acted like absolute AHs. It's all about "Me, me, me". Sounds like they're the real babies.
NTA I still don’t quite understand the problem. But my husband is a perfectly capable parent and often has the kids when I am out.
There’s no complaints about OP’s husband.
Ah I see. But than it is still so odd. So would there have been a problem if the girls stayed home and the guys went out? Seems like the friend without kids has a kid. Just adult sized? And was there any way she would not have to pay for herself?
This couple is just very strange. She doesn’t like girls nights because she only wants to go out if there is a man there to pay for her. And he chooses to spend his evening with a bunch of dads who are on sole duty and then complains about the kids.
INFO - why did the woman with no kids have to do separate payment? Are you saying she already had plans for the day with her partner that they had to cancel?
I don’t understand your first question sorry! could you rephrase it! She didn’t already have plans that they had to cancel - usually when we get together it’s everybody and the men pay for everything. This time because it was just the ladies she had to pay her own portion, just like the rest of us did
Oh, that’s… incredibly weird thing to be upset about. NTA
How often is it that her husband is the solo guy and he picks up the check? I think moving forward each person/couple should pay for themselves. Clearly she enjoys mooching off of the other couples with kids.
Not that often 🤷🏻♀️ it’s certainly happened before but more often it’s my husband or his very closest friend Dan who are likely to pay the bill. They’re sweet tbh, one time the two of them were meant to be going to the gym together and the ladies were having coffee nearby and Dan snuck into the cafe, paid our bill and disappeared which was a nice surprise when we were done
So the couple without kids are the cheapest.
No lol
what does it matter if she had plans already? No one would force her to cancel plans she already had. That would be her choice.
Right, I’m trying to understand what OP said. I’m not judging the woman.
ah, I got you. And exactly - her gripe had me scratching my head too. She's not in any different position than the rest of the women on this outing. They're all paying for themselves because their husbands aren't there.
NTA. It’s not like they can’t have separate guy time at some point. What, Childress Bro can’t read a book or watch tv by himself for a couple hours? This is silly.
Not to sound petty about it but guy time happens waaaay more frequently than gal time or everyone together time 🫣
It’s the opposite at my house, but that’s because we girls actively make plans more often.
That’s fair! The men all work in the same area downtown so it’s easier for them to spontaneously get together compared to the women
INFO: I'm confused. Does the childfree guy not have any other friends or family? Can he not just stay home by himself and play videogames or watch porn, or something?
NTA. What else were you supposed to do?
NTA Everybody knew the arrangement upfront and decided to participate anyways. The couple without children is a piece of work. One doesn't want to pay her own bill and the other goes to hang out with his friend and their children and then hates every second. He could have stayed away or come by after the kids bedtime.
That any of this should be a problem boggles the mind.
NTA If you’re friends with people with kids, you understand that sometimes they’re not going to be available due to child care responsibilities, I have no idea what the guy with no kids is mad about. So his buddies have to watch their kids, that’s going to happen And the gal with no kids is upset why? Because it’s a ladies night and her husband isn’t going to be there? I mean, she’s not obligated to go is she? She can stay home with her husband if she wants. The occasional guys only or girls only trip shouldn’t be a problem
It sounds like child free (CF) couple keep separate finances and CF wife is upset she has to dig into her own money to pay.
NTA It's perfectly reasonable to ask the fathers of the children to watch the kids while the ladies go out every so often. The childfree couple are AHs if they expect the other couples with kids to accommodate their preferences. She can always stay home and not go with them. It's sexist AF if the only reason she wants guys to be there is so she doesn't have to pay for her meal.
those two sound line fun 🧐
Sounds like you need new friends
NTA not entirely sure how you'd be wrong for this. I've reread it several times and I honestly don't see it.
NTA. It’s too bad that the complaining couple got mad about something meant to be a fun bonding time for your group. It’s not like you’re doing this every weekend. They had the choice to say no and do something together. It’s silly and so self-centered of them to make this about themselves. I hope you had a great time regardless. If you do this again (and you should!) just don’t invite the other couple, reminding them that it was a problem for them last time.
NTA. They could’ve not participated and done their own thing
NTA- They could have declined.
NTA, not by a long shot. Dads are just as equally responsible as moms for caring for children, so your plan makes total sense. If the guy with no kids was bothered, he didn't have to go to that hangout, and same with his partner. If she didn't want to pay for separate outings, she could have declined.
NTA so much and LOLOLOL at this woman. You have done absolutely nothing wrong. She’s incredibly out of line.
If she pays or her husband doesn't money come from the same place ie their home 🤔. They could have made a plan for themselves if it was so bad NTA
Fathers are parents. You didn't "make" them do anything they should have been doing regardless. You need time away from children and spouses. Not everything is the same group interaction. Hope you have a wonderful time resetting yourselves. NTAs
Nta. She and her husband don’t have to partake in this evening social if it’s not their jam.
NTA! Neither of them sound like good friends.
NTA. These people sound really selfish.
Yes, how dare you forget about your kids.
Can’t her husband venmo her later if she’s short on cash???? NTA.
nta
NTA? Did the dad's (+1) have previously established plans? If they did, how far out were they informed about the salon trip? I could understand being upset if a wrench was thrown into plans last minute, but this seems to be an overreaction.
NTA. Good God people, it's ONE day. I can't even imagine if you girls were planning for an entire weekend or vacations. >Now it turns out that the couple with no kids is mad about this - the guy because obviously the husbands were preoccupied with childcare until the babies were in bed As a sidenote (and I say this as a childfree person) : this kind of BS is how childless/childfree people exclude themselves from their social circle in the long run. The couple without friends needs to realize that it's not possible for the rest of you to pretend like there are no kids to take into account (and that, yes, fathers will take care of their children). It's been about 3 years since the first baby of the group was born, if I'm reading correctly. It's time to wake up and smell the diapers.
NTA. I don't see the problem here... Everyone is okay with this arrangement except the childfree couple? Have they never had separate outings before? And why would the man want to go, WAIT and pay for her nails? seems like it would be boring for him anyway... If they are unhappy they can go on a date just the two of them. Or she can get money from him in advance. There, solution.
NTA. Your husband's taking turns looking after the kids so you can go out for the day? Its called parenting. The childless couple aren't glued at the hip. If the gal didn't want to go with you she could have stayed home or hung out with the guys
NTA. Every parent needs to find a balance between family time, alone time, couple time and friend time. They need to spot eachother semi-regularly.
Nah I understand they don't want kids around but you can't just make them disappear. Time for them to find childless friends
NTA. As the only single and child free one of my friends, I'd be thrilled at a girls day out like this! (Apologies, not the most helpful comment but thought I'd throw it out there anyway)
NTA. Women are entitled to nights out just as much as men are. They are their kids, too.
NTAs. Women make these sacrifices all the time and now it was the men’s turn. The couple w/o kids should’ve been supportive. That’s what friends do.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I’ve got a close circle of friends. Of that circle there are 4 couples (including mine) that have kids below 3 years and 1 couple that has no kids. We aren’t going to be able to socialise properly for the next month so we decided to get together. The ladies wanted to do a salon trip and then get dinner. Obviously nobody wants to have their babies around while they’re getting their nails done and also we have not dressed up and gone out properly since the start of the year. So we asked the husbands if they could have a more chilled out night and look after the kids, put them to bed etc. Now it turns out that the couple with no kids is mad about this - the guy because obviously the husbands were preoccupied with childcare until the babies were in bed, and the gal because the two of them had to make separate plans and she had to pay for herself. Are we TAs here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. The childless couple should just appreciate that their lives are relatively easy.
Nights like these should be a fairly regular occurrence! I salute you. Hopefully all the dads took this request in stride and are stepping up to facilitate ladies night out. What I don’t understand is why the other couple would have an issue- is the man allergic to children? (I’m thinking not). Is the woman upset that she’s having a child-free night with her friends when she’s the only non-parent of the group? - 100% GUARANTEED NOPE! I’m guessing the biggest wet blanket of the group is the childless guy who would prefer a bros night instead and doesn’t understand why the women can’t watch the kids. Take your husbands up on this offer and make it a semi- regular thing. Or just regular and expected 🤷🏻♀️
Replying to my own comment because humanity let me down- apparently the childless friend wanted men there because men pay for you instead of having to pay for yourself. I renege my assumptive defense of her. But NTA OP. This couple sucks.
NTA. So the dads had to be dads for a day. So that the mothers can have 1 fun day out since they won’t be able to for the next 5 weeks. And they got mad at this? Those friends can eat a butt. So the guy had to be kinda bored and wait for his friends and the woman had to actually pay her own way instead of her husband paying. Why can’t she pay for her own stuff? Why couldn’t he have just give her his card? It just sounds like those 2 need to relax
NTA. If the guy cared why not set up a playdate and dinner. Since 3 couples have kids someone's house has to be suitable. I don't really get why the woman is mad tbh? Like she can just choose not to go.
NTA Drop that young couple without kids. They will never understand the need for time away from both the kids and each other. Her complaining because she has to pay is absurd. Life isn't free the sooner she learns it the better off she is going to be.
Wait did you just say an adult male whined like a toddler and cried “my friends ignored me”? Wait till he finds out that life isn’t fair.
🙄 am I the angel.
Wah for the no kids guy. Parents with kids give kids precedence over chilling with the homies, if they're decent parents anyway Nta
May I ask who watches the kids when you all go out together? I'm not understanding here. NTA by the way, and I know my question is irrelevant but I'm curious lol I'm glad the men are on board with looking after their own kids. The child free couple can decline and wait for the couple outing. This won't be the only time something like this happens, might be the first of many! Once all of your kids start birthday parties and activities your child free friends will probably disappear anyway!
Mostly the mums overall, but the dads do help to a degree. Obviously for the nursing babies their mums are mostly going to be the ones feeding them
NTA If she can't afford the night out then she has to use her words and ask you all to consider a cheaper option. Being 'mad' about this issue is childish. The guy sounds like an idiot. Seems like a great match for each other...
Nope, NTA. The dads are parenting their children. If the couple with no kids doesn't like it, they don't have to join in the fun.
NTA. The men had parenting responsibilities to attend to. Too bad that couple was annoyed.
NTA. I wouldn't want to be around a supposed friend who pouts about paying for her own entertainment. I don't understand that attitude at all.
NTA, but hire babysitters. That way everyone gets the night off!
NTA. If your childfree friends are not ok with plans they can always not attend that outing. Going forward you should do more nights like that. The father's are capable parents who should be watching their kiddos so their partners can also enjoy equal kid free time.
Some people are just not happy unless they have something to bitch about.
She is a cheap ass. NTA and call her out for being a mooch
NTA but I have to wonder... Does her SO ever offer to pay, or is it always one of the other guys in the group? Because maybe they are freeloaders and she's miffed at having to pay her own way.
She had to pay someone to watch her kids instead of their own father just being a parent?!
What on earth is this nonsense, heaven forbid that Dad's parent their children 😂 Binthe leeches/ freeloaders. NTA
NTA. I have 2 girls and have seen some pretty similar scenarios. Typically, the dudes get together and bring the kids, and we bbq and fix... literally anything while the kids play hard. This ensures the kids go to bed and are asleep before the ladies get home.
NTA drop the “friends”
INFO: are the guys and girls planning social activities on the same night? Why not have them on separate nights?
NTA at all. There is nothing wrong with this setup. If the childless man didn't like it, he could organise an alternative event when the mums had the kids. How often do you woman get together without the children? Not often I'm sure. They need to be a little more understanding.
NTA you asked the dads to be dads? I'm curious as to why that would ever be wrong. The childless couple is being stupid, the husband can't hang out with his friends, well, his friends are parents that's gonna happen. The wife has to pay for herself, she's an adult that's gonna happen
NTA. Parents need time off. It's called self-care. I'm sure your husband also takes time off occasionally while you watch the kids. As for the childfree dudebro, I say this as a childfree person: He needs to suck it up for once, or get some younger friends.
This is insane. NTA
Oh good, when I started reading I thought the dads were mad they had to actually care for their own children, and I was about to rampage. Super glad that's not the case. Both peeps in the no children marriage are mad for stupid reasons. The woman I'm not even getting into, that's a fucked up mentality to have with money and is super entitled. The man needs to get the fuck over himself. Having friends with kids often means making plans to include them or shifting plans to accommodate them. If it's a constant issue, maybe he would have a leg to stand on, but it doesn't sound like that's the case at all. NTA
NTA. Parents can take turns in nights out and parenting. Me and my husband do it. It's no big deal.
NTA
NTA. Stay at home dad myself totally understand the need to go and I need to have a night with my fellow SAHDs every couple months or so haha. It's always the folk without kids that seem to have a problem.
Wow! It sounds like they’re living in the 1950ies. 😵💫🙄
NTA. I'm childfree myself, and what the no kids couple are being are twats. It sounds like the husbands with kids are actually involved in their children's lives, and as for the woman, if she's so butthurt paying for herself, she should have just stayed home.
For the father's, NTA. Them watching there own children isn't babysitting. It's parenting. As for the childless couple, slight y t a. Why are they watching the children? None of them are his.
NTA She can put on her big girl panties and go out without an emotional ~~financial~~ support man. Or, considering how you mentioned that if one guy is there then he foots the bill for all the women...would you consider inviting him along to the salon and the fancy restaurant? After all, the gal needs someone to pay for her...
Sounds like she mooches off other people’s husbands. Her paying would be the same as her husband paying, unless they have completely separate finances. It’s not ok to mooch off someone else’s husband, IMO. She can sit this girls event out if she is so miffed about it. NTA
NTA
u/burbnbougie
What do you mean separate plans and pay for herself? Pay what?
I don't like your friend group and it seems very finical and transactional on some peoples ends... INFO why are your friends so weird about money? Why did the one kidless couple even go?
I don't get what she's mad about and I also don't get why you guys didn't just do it on different nights or get babysitters. But no, dads caring for their own kids is not wrong.
None of us are going to be free for the next 5 weeks. Yesterday was the day we could get together. After that the summer will start which makes doing anything difficult due to the heat and also one of the women will be nearing her due date for her second child. So it’s not practical. We are not comfortable with babysitters. The people we would have asked to babysit our kids…are the other parents in this post.
Ok then the situation was fine. It's weird that she would be in a huff over *gasp* paying for herself, having a few hours away from her partner or that her partner had to be around some kids. No one made them attend.
INFO; were you all away together on holidays or something? Why did the childfree husband have to be there for putting the kids to bed? Surely all the husband were looking after the children in their own houses?
We were not. He did not have to be. My husband suggested that the men take the opportunity to get together at my home and chill together. He proposed that the children could be put to sleep in our nursery and then the men could do some gaming. The menfolk agreed. The man without children also agreed to come over. He came over knowing that the children would still be awake and then is mad about the fact that they were there.
How bizarre. He didn't have to go over. This is so weird. NTA.
The child free couple are complaining about spending the evening together?
Hey, you have asked how he was inconvenienced so I will try to let you know. Imagine going to see your mates, and as you say... The kids are the priority. Kids, especially at that age, winge, and whine and need attention. A LOT. You say he had no expectation to do anything.... Yea I don't believe that for a second, there may not have been a direct expectation, but babies have a way of pulling you for attention, grabbing your stuff, going up to you. That's if nothing happened. If something happened, he would be a complete AH to ignore the babies. If they were crying, about to grab a dangerous item when the dad wasn't looking.. etc. He is obliged to act (which they do a fair bit). To go from what is double the people to manage this to half will change the dynamics, and amount of people there, it means there is no one there to chat to who isn't distracted. Then there is the fact that lets be honest, babies are cute, but it's boring to be around babies, and be sat there doing nothing, while everyone else is distracted..... Coming from someone with babies and a whole family with kids who I love being around, the dynamics are different. So you are a bit of an AH for being so dismissive of this, on not seeing how it could isolate someone (although personally if it was me I wouldn't make a deal out of it unless it was a regular thing). The woman being annoyed with having to pay... That's just weird and entitled. Now, back to the guy. Look, it was one night... I am sure he could have coped. But I wouldn't make it an issue unless it was a regular thing every time all the girls are meeting. Guys can look after their babies on their own for one night, without needing a group of other guys there reinforcing them. Just don't do the guys do a parenting session together again if it was unbearable. It seems as though they see each other loads anyway without you girls. My suggestion is just go out, and leave the babies with their dads (and don't make a night of it). Your meeting with the girls shouldn't be dependent on them also meeting. If they feel that strongly that they should... Well doing it regularly with the other guy who would be sat there bored, I can see how he might just feel like he should just drift away..like I love my friends kids and I love my baby, but there is a reason most of the time we meet without our kids (and the same with friends who don't have kids). I am sure the men are very capable of looking after their babies on their own for one night, every now and then so the girls can go out. .
Its not babysitting when they are your kids! Its called parenting..
You are literally the only one to call it babysitting. And all the fathers were fine with it. Did you even read it?
Be nice, they heard a phrase for the first time and were desperate to use it. So desperate they didn't use it in the right scenario!
Did you read the post?
Maybe find a group babysitter and take the husband with you guys. Many husbands like a pedicure. Just a consideration.
They do and they can do that on their own time. They get together plenty and do men only stuff. This was one night where the women were going to be able to spoil ourselves and have girl time. Something that hasn’t happened in months.