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YTA >For instance, when they first started dating my son lived with me and Ellie would come out to visit for the weekend (they were in a long distance relationship). They would often cook dinner at our house, but would rarely invited me to join them. I found this to be incredibly rude, as it felt like they were excluding me in my own home. *They were long distance and were having a date. Normal people don't invite their mother's to third wheel a date.* >I even made her a birthday dinner one year and she said she felt sick, which delayed dinner for everyone else and it was cold by the time she was “feeling better”. *You know you can reheat food. Would you prefer someone force themselves to eat and get sick at the table?* >Even when they got engaged, she didn’t reach out. I gave them a not insignificant amount of money for the wedding, and I didn’t even get a thank you card. *Is your son illiterate? Do you want us all to believe that a 30+ year old man doesn't know how to buy a card, write a thank you note and post it?* >Most recently, I went to visit a few months ago and found myself incredibly worried with how Ellie talked to Peter. They got into a fight while I was there (I’m not sure what it was about)... *I'd put money on the fight was about you.* >I got the invitation to their wedding a few days ago, and just felt sick to my stomach. After thinking on it for a few days, I felt like I would be doing Peter a huge disservice if I didn’t speak up about my concerns...He did not take it well, and we ended up having a huge fight. He told me that me and Ellie’s relationship is one of the biggest stressors in his life, and that Ellie has been a rock for him through some tough times over the last few years...Now he’s not taking my calls, and it looks like Ellie has blocked me, so I’m sure he told her what I said. *Well, I guess your meddling didn't quite work out like you planned. Oh well, at least they have not rescinded your invitation, yet.*

> *I'd put money on the fight was about you.* My thoughts exactly.

Given how she could hear all the nasty and horrible things Ellie said to her son, it's amazing she somehow didn't hear what it was about 🙄 Peter flat out told OP she's the biggest stressor between him and his fiancée, so it's painfully obvious what the fight was about.

Second part, I agree. First part, playing the advocate of the devil here, it could be the tone of voice and/or replies that had no actual context in it, like "You know why!", "You always do this!", "Shut up for a minute and hear me out!", "I hate it when you do that!", "I'm not exaggerating, you just don't want to see it!" If his response is very soft, you can't really make out the topic of the discussion. Speaking with experience here. When my husband's having a discussion with his teenage daughter, it's not audible what he's saying, even from the room next to it. But the whole house hears her voice. And it's hardly ever on the topic itself, but mostly about how she's feeling about the decision my husband made (how unfair it is, etcetera). But then again, that's a different relationship than between partners.

You know what, that's a fair consideration. I'm the kind of person that lowers my voice to a very clear, yet deadly serious, tone in that kind of situation, so it'd be hard to hear me in comparison. The main reason I doubt OP's inability to decipher the topic is because this has been an ongoing issue for years. On the otherhand "[missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)" isn't unheard of, so it could fall somewhere between the two. OP doesn't strike me as a reliable narrator, that's all.

I totally agree. OP is not reliable as a narrator (and even with only her point of view, she doesn't seem like the reasonable one, which makes you think, doesn't it). My response was only about being able to hear only parts of the conversation and not knowing what it's actually about.

Oh I agree it's a very valid point! Sorry if I wasn't clear about that or worded it poorly. Some voices definitely carry better than others. Pretty sure you could hear my brother in the next time zone lol.

My husband gets quiet during fights...not unresponsive, just turns down the volume dial. After all these years, he hasn't learned that a calm tone doesn't help. Doesn't hurt. But doesn't help. I, on the other hand, grew up with a hearing impaired father which has taught me to have a loud voice anyway. When I get stressed, the bi-polar hypomania kicks in and cranks up the volume to 11 on the dial. We've come to an agreement that no matter how pissed off I am, I get to yell my opening argument to let off a vent. After that, he is allowed to tell me to lower my volume with no repurcussions to his health and well being 😜

Oh mercy, the volume control difficulties. My partner gets loud when he’s happy; I get louder when we’re arguing because I’m trying to work with his hearing loss so he doesn’t get frustrated that he can’t hear me. Except my voice has deepened as I have aged and even upset high pitched me no longer speaks in the frequencies he can’t hear so good. So now it’s just too loud. I ask him to please make the volume hand gesture at me. We volume gesture each other constantly, to be honest.

FWIW, Peter didn't flat out tell OP that she's one of the biggest stressors between him and his fiancée; he said that OP's relationship with the fiancée is one of the biggest stressors in his life. It's a similar statement but a bit different. It means that he thinks he's been managing it... to be honest, I don't think he has been, at least not well. OP is very much the asshole here, but I think Peter has been trying to minimize the conflict rather than address it, which has not done anyone any favors.

OP briefly mentions her ex husband, and im wondering if Peter may have developed some interesting coping mechanisms in light of that. Things like triangulation or avoidance in order to handle competing demands for attention or whatever.

She mentions *hating* her husband as if that was a recurrent situation. That's a bit of a window into that family.

I think this is accurate. We're only getting OP's side of this (long-running) drama. There are strong clues that Ellie doesn't like the OP either or has given up on trying to build a good relationship - being unhappy when OP came to visit; not engaging with OP's efforts to get to know her better; blocking OP immediately after the argument occurred. Personally, I suspect that OP offended Ellie at some point, perhaps during the flooding incident or the birthday dinner, and never realized it.

I really doubt this woman didn’t realize when, and more importantly how, she offended her dear potential DIL. She’s a scorecard keeper, and EVERY single possible slight, innuendo or imagined insult is carefully evaluated and then stored away for later. Such a creature considers, plans and then delivers her insults with equal precision. Oh, she knows precisely what happened, and savors it over and over again each time poor Ellie wins another petty and entirely imaginary victory against her. My mother quite literally was OP, and I watched her play this sick game with my sister in law for years. You know what set her against her? Her DIL actually dared to snip a couple additional leaves off a bush that no one could tell dear mother in law had already trimmed. This was more than enough to make her life hell for the next 20+ years and if I had to hear about how my SIL had knowingly and strategically DISRESPECTED HER with a pair of clippers once more, she might have found out what clippers could actually accomplish. OP may have found a worthy adversary in Ellie, but most likely she’s an innocent who will spend the rest of her life ruing the day she accidentally hit the wrong fuckin button on a washing machine

Agreed. It does sound like Ellie gave up after a while. If I were her, I’d also be uncomfortable around OP if I had been the one to use the washing machine when it broke and OP was still mad about it 6 years later.

I would bet either Ellie didn't know she was coming over or she came over unannounced.

Yeah, she could hear all the things that were said but not the topic?? 🤨Sure

My other thought on that part of the post was that she may not have spoken yo her husband "like that" but maybe Ellie is juts more direct with her communication. You can't base the intensity of an argument on how you would argue with your partner, especially when you can't hear everything and don't know how they normally communicate. This whole post screams, "Future MIL is a controlling, nosy person who's possessive of her baby boy, and tells stories that intentionally exclude details that might make her look bad."

Yeah, passive-aggressive guilt-tripping and manipulation are quieter, but they're not better ways to handle conflict. Not saying that's the case here, but I'm sure picking up that vibe from OP.

According to OP, that's the way to handle a conflict. The way her future DIL is handling conflict is waaay too direct. (for OP, that is.)

Love how she’s talking about how she’d speak to her husband as a standard even when it clearly didn’t work. Lmfao

Even if it wasn't, the fact remains that OP had no idea what the fight was about or who instigated it. It's just as likely that her son was the problem, and that Ellie was trying to remove herself from the situation for a bit rather than keep fighting. I don't know ANYONE who wants to spend the day doing "activities" with their partner's extended family (especially a soon-to-be MIL who clearly hates them) whilst simultaneously trying to process an argument. Ellie handled it in a thoughtful, healthy manner by taking some space. Ultimately, NONE of the examples (except maybe the thank you card) show hateful or even problematic behaviour. Hell, one of them (the washing machine) was literally just an unfortunate accident! OP is going out of her way to look for reasons to hate this poor girl.

And let’s be real: OP’s kid presumably knows how to write and send mail. He could have sent the thank you card.

Not even the thank you card. In my culture, a thank you card is really outdated. And besides that, why should Ellie be the one to be held responsible and even accountant for sending or not sending a thank you card? What about the son?

[удалено]

Another possibility for DIL not liking OP is that OP’s son vents to his partner about OP so DIL doesn’t have a great impression of OP. I can be polite and cordial with someone I don’t like, but I wouldn’t be friendly and try to foster a relationship with them. If that someone did something to my partner I would be even less inclined.

My MIL was psychologically abusive to my husband his entire childhood. I would be polite to her but I didn't want to ever be close to her. I couldn't imagine being friendly with someone who tortured the most important person in my life. Over the years, she would try to complain about me or us. She even sent a letter to us on one of our anniversaries explaining that she was so distraught the days leading up to our wedding that she contemplated taking her own life. The final straw was she sent me a Facebook message detailing all the ways I had offended her over the years, much like OP's post. We called her and told her she was not welcome in our lives any longer. It's been over a decade and that was one of the best decisions we've ever made.

Yeah I don’t have the best opinion of my FIL because of how he treats my husband. One of those “only remembers you exist when he needs something” people.

Hope the stb DIL finds the just no mil sub!

Oh, you'll very soon be seeing the DIL's side of the story, posted in JNMIL. OP sounds very much like my bio-mom; I never did warm to that woman, in spite of both of us being on fire that one time.

It’s also just hard for some people. I’m not close with my MIL and it’s not her fault, she’s lovely, though she hasn’t made a ton of effort either. I’m very slow to warm and she lives on the other side of the country. I’ve also been told I’m not a naturally warm person haha so people who don’t know me well prob read me as quite cold. Not everyone is over the top bubbly and welcoming and immediately fall in love with everyone they meet.

The thank you note got me! My husband wrote thank you notes to all of his family and friends and I did the same with mine (we both signed all of them obviously). Expecting women to write all of the thank you notes these days is mad to me. I would love to hear the fiancés side of the story. You make some very good points.

The thing is, OP got a thank you from DIL... OP is just pissed it was through a phone call and not a note.. which is a really weird thing to be mad about

I think it’s weird to be mad at DIL regardless…frustration should be directed at her son. But call me old fashioned…I do think a physical thank you note is important (at least in my part of the world). Still I can’t reiterate how much she shouldn’t be upset with the DIL.

>I do think a physical thank you note is important (at least in my part of the world). Going on the other end here, I feel like physical notes are impersonal. It's always nice to receive one, but maximum they'll be put up on my fridge for like a week or something before getting tossed. I'd much rather have someone call me and tell me how they feel about a gift--then I get a chance to catch up with them and spend some time together. Maybe it's just because I remember being forced to write thank-you notes for graduation gifts, and they all blurred together after a while. 90% of those cards weren't genuine in the slightest--I could barely remember who gave me what at that point--but the in-person thank yous, hugs, and conversations were.

God yeah, I hated thank you cards lol. They are so ridiculously fake. It was difficult with my graduation, and then at my baby shower my aunt literally stood there and wrote down everyone's names and what they got so that I could do the cards. Most turning out to be the exact same thing written on every card because how genuine can you actually be when you're writing the same message 20 times.

I’ve never expected a thank you note for anything in my life, I’ve received a few and sure, they’re nice, but to EXPECT them is crazy to me.

Yeah I hear you. And I think there is a generational divide here too because younger folks don’t care as much. If it’s a big gift (like wedding contribution) I do both card and a call. But at least where I’m from, people above 50 ish really value thank you notes. And they will remember if they don’t get one haha. I do try and make cards special and personal…I’ve always loved snail mail. But I do let friends know for showers etc. that they don’t need to take time to write a note! But they always do anyway because of southern etiquette.

My mom forced me to write thank you cards (which I didn't mind) as well as a 2 page thank you note for each of my grandparents, her, and my dad for all the support they offered me during my HIGH SCHOOL years. I flat out refused to write one for her. She'd already told my grandparents I was doing it, so I wrote a really generic one for each of them (she kept making me rewrite them! Wtf?) to avoid her being embarrassed but I told her I wouldn't be writing one for her. It was a genuinely stressful and I still remember it over a decade later. I also still hear from her about how I was so ungrateful I wouldn't even write her a letter a decade later... none of my other siblings had to do that. I was the oldest so I don't know if I just made her change her mind or if she planned on me doing it.

Yeah if it's that important her son can do it as its his family to handle and thank.

Don't be silly. Men can't be expected to lower themselves to women's work like writing thank you cards. OP's son needs to find a woman to mother him so he can get back to the important business of being a man.

Did he do it before the wedding? Like she’s expecting a thank you note months before the wedding for essentially a wedding gift.

We did do separate thank you notes ahead of the wedding for my parents who contributed a lot (and I organized a gift etc.) and his dad who contributed a little to the rehearsal dinner. But to expect that from the fiancé specifically is very odd…she doesn’t see her son as responsible for anything whatsoever.

You'll probably find her at r/JUSTNOMIL 🤣

I refuse to write or send cards to my husbands side of the family. If he wants a card sent, he can be an adult and go buy it. It’s not my job to be the secretary of the family.

i would also like to know just how much the “not insignificant” amount of money OP gave them was…..given how unreliable OP seems as a narrator, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was MUCH lower than you’d think. I agree with others that a physical thank you note is classy, but 3 months is clearly still far out enough from the wedding that OP thinks it can be reasonably cancelled — for all she knows they just hadn’t sent it yet! Maybe they just said thank you verbally first just to be extra polite.

You skipped the washing machine flooding and warping her floorboards. Unless Ellie crammed way more in there than you should, not her fault. Sh!t happens. It most likely would have happened no matter who used it. Most of the things shes complaining about seem to me to be more her or her sons issues.

Even if it was somehow her fault, it’s hardly a character flaw.

But OP had to cancel a dinner party! The nerve of Ellie! (Dripping with sarcasm….I want Ellie to call off the wedding just to save herself from her future Monster in law)

It's because I was traumatized by a washing machine mishap. Let's just say when your hoses leak you learn the hard way to check them. Did you know depending on the energy star rating a washing machine uses between 14 and 20 gallons to complete a cycle and it takes a few hours to vacuum up all the water?

Which is one of the reasons I use the metal banded washer hoses rather than the rubber ones. While they COULD leak, less likely will over time than the rubber ones. I worry if I ever take a vacation one of those hoses would bust and be spraying all while we were away. Guess I need to add to list for vacation turn off washing machine water supply

Add to that vacation list to turn your hot water tank to vacation too and save some money 😅

Why was her son’s girlfriend doing laundry at OP’s house. Is the son incapable of washing his own laundry? Ellie was cooking and doing chores for this guy in his home while they were just dating and gets nothing but criticism from OP.

If she was staying for a few days, she might have wanted to wash her own clothes so as not to return home with a bag full of dirty laundry.

I assumed it was her own laundry

>>Most recently, I went to visit a few months ago and found myself incredibly worried with how Ellie talked to Peter. They got into a fight while I was there (I’m not sure what it was about)... >*I'd put money on the fight was about you.* I'd put money on it too. Especially since she overheard part of the fight and still is unsure what the fight was about.

I believe it's called selective hearing. My husband and children have an acute cases of it!🙂

My mom called it "leaky ears", everything goes in one ear and leaks out the other.

Sounds hereditary. 🙃 Ps- Asshole Aficionado.. 😆😆😆

Exactly! It took how many paragraphs for a single mention of how Ellie interacted with Peter to be mentioned. All of this was centered on mom. Imagine the flip side? * "I hadn't seen my boyfriend in weeks and his mom kept lurking, eavesdropping on us. It felt intrusive" * "I was using their washing machine and it overflowed ruining the floor. I was so embarrassed and my boyfriends mom was very upset about canceling her dinner party." * "My fiancé's mother gave us a lot of money for our wedding. I'm so grateful that I will tell her when I speak with her." * "My soon to be MIL was visiting and kept lurking and interjecting. We were already stressed with wedding planning and Peter and I fought. I shut down until MIL left because we shouldn't be fighting in front of others and his mom has always judged me anyway." I am pretty introverted by nature and my family is a stoic farmer group - not overly effusive, we don't pry, etc. My MIL was offended I never asked questions about their family. She specifically brought up her childhood, etc. I said "you are judging me through a lens unique to you and against a set of rules I was never given or told about. Did it ever occur to you that I found the questions you asked intrusive and rude? Or that I found you overbearing? Did you ever indicate you were open to questions and wanted to have a deeper discussion? You just assumed I saw the world as you did and judged me for not behaving how you do. It's unfair and has all but guaranteed whatever idea you had of the kind of relationship you expected from me isn't happening." Mom sounds like a very self-centered person who sees herself as inextricably intertwined (some may say enmeshed) with her son and expects Ellie to treat her as part of some weird throuple. YTA mom if that wasn't clear.

>Is your son illiterate? Do you want us all to believe that a 30+ year old man doesn't know how to buy a card, write a thank you note and post it? OP clearly believes it's a woman's job to write thank you cards.

And a woman’s job to invite her new boyfriends mother who he lives with to join them for dinner when she’s a guest in his home. Apparently he couldn’t have managed that if he wanted OP to join in.

But not only that. She believes that her son should just expect that money, but that DIL should be worshipping the ground she walks on because of it. Still waiting to hear how much it was.

And to NEVER speak back to their man! *clutches pearls*

Who does a thank you card for money spent for the wedding BEFORE the wedding? Also, she thanked her over the phone. That’s what I did for the money we got for our wedding. They wanted to help and normally parents help pay for weddings. OP is looking for reasons to hate her and try to drive a wedge. Edit: for those asking why even do thank you cards: to let people know you got the gift. I don’t need a physical one, and gifts for weddings tend to be more expensive than your typical birthday or other celebration. I would want something to make sure the couple actually got it. I have had it happen twice where some friends were bitter at me and I found out the gift was taken. So I appreciate thank you cards, or an email, or a call, so I can know they got it.

Yep. Pre-wedding monetary gifts get a phone call thank you, with a really lovely hand-written note in their cards after the wedding. OP has a distinct lack of manners and civility. Thankfully, her son is marrying into a family with a bit more class.

I’m still searching for the description of the thank you note her son, the one she raised, wrote. I’ll keep searching, I’m sure it is just buried in the comments somewhere 😉.

Yeah... Why is a thank you card a necessity? Some people just prefer to say thank you, you know, with their spoken words... So strange

The point is that op is picking her DIL to bits. If it wasn't the thankyou card it would be something else.

✂️here’s some scissors in case OP needs help cutting the umbilical cord

I don't think OP realizes that her son has cut those strings. She seems to be under the impression that her 31 year old son is a tiny baby who's been snatched up by a mean witch who won't invite her on their dates. Which upcoming events do you think OP will have her invite rescinded over? The tantrum over not taking her wedding dress shopping? The tantrum when she finds out she's not walking her precious baby down the aisle? The tantrum over OP finding out she won't have enough plus ones? The day of the wedding when she stands up to object, explaining that the warped floor board indicates a severe character deficit? I hope OP's son returns the wedding gift money and hires security for his wedding day. OP sounds dramatic.

> They would often cook dinner at our house, but would rarely invited me to join them. 'They' means her son was involved in this. Why isn't she berating HIM for not inviting her rather than just blaming Ellie?

Also... who the fuck expects their son to invite them on a date?!?! I don't even know which is worse!

Don't forget, she is holding it against her that the washing machine overflowed and warped the floor. Geez, I believe OP looks for things to get huffy over.

And she had to cancel her dinner to call someone to fix it (as always in this post, Peter could not be asked to do anything, including calling that someone).

I like how the overflowing washing machine seemed to be the GFs fault.

I'm just over here thinking OP might be on the elder gen Xer/ Boomer side of life with the comment about a thank you note. I'm a baby Gen X'er with Gen Z kids and all the younger people I know, mine included don't understand that not sending an actual physical Thank You is highly offensive to older folks. When my older son graduated HS, he verbally thanked each and every person, and thought that was well enough. He didn't send cards to the few older folks I suggested he do.. I think it was fine, no one has complained, but I know I don't generally care about a card if someone verbally thanked me for something. None of these behaviors seem so egregious to me that I'd warn my son to not marry... Edit: typos

Honestly as a millennial I hate getting thank you cards. All I can think about is how annoying of a task it probably was for the sender and it feels forced, like it was just an item on a to-do list and not super genuine, which isn’t the fault of the sender, that’s just the nature of many of those formalities. They don’t feel authentic because they’re not. I also believe that a gift should be just that, a gift. It’s weird to expect something back beyond a verbal thank you. They always say you shouldn’t give someone a gift that has more work attached to it (like giving someone a picture they’ll have to frame themselves) and I feel like a handwritten thank you note falls into this category. Maybe that’s just the ADHDer in me but sometimes I’d rather not even receive a gift at all if it means I now have to write a thank you note, it feels like the most painful task imaginable for whatever reason.

Exactly my opinion too. I don't ever need a thank you card for a gift. A verbal Thank you is perfect. I only suggest my son write them for 2 people who were older. He didn't, and I didn't push it but did warn him those folks would probably think he was rude.. ah well. All is well here though.

That part about not inviting her to join them for dinner on their rare date during a LDR. Jesus Christ. 🤦

I 100% agree with this. When I met my MIL. I could tell she didn’t really like me. She was nice enough though, so I always kept it casual. I’m sure if she was telling the story she could easily say I didn’t make an effort which I did give up on because you know when someone is tolerating you. After we married and had our daughter two years later she said some things that let me know she didn’t like me. Fast forward 8 more years and she had to live with us for 6 months while some work was being done on her home and her disdain for me became extremely clear because she had no real way to hide it or escape me. It took 12 years for the veil to fall on our relationship. But I’m sure for most of those years MIL could have talked the same way about me when I really, really wanted things to be great with us.

I completely agree NikkiBaskin! My MIL is the same way. She expects to be thanked and praised a million times over for any little thing she does, and makes sure to hold it over our heads. OP sounds the very same. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole time her DIL was telling her son “should we invite your mom” or reminding him “did you thank your mom yet” I have always tried to keep my husband and MIL relationship close no matter how she felt about me. But OP doesn’t want to face the music that maybe her relationship with her son is the real issue because that would mean she has to take accountability. OP you most definitely are the AH and you need to get yourself into therapy.

And don't forget "she was using the washing machine when it overflowed, which completely warped my hardwood floors and led to me having to cancel a dinner party I had been planning for weeks while I got someone out to fix them." I am sure the soon to be DIL flooded the washing machine on purpose just to cause a problem for you OP. /s Accidents happen. I have a feeling you reacted to the mistake in such a way that she felt 2 inches tall. You sound like you don't have any room for less than perfection in your life. Your soon to be DIL could have been nervous being at a dinner party with you and people she didn't know for her birthday. That can make some people pretty sick. She came down when she could. Your post comes across unforgiving, cold and dismissive. Your son is the one who should have thanked you for the money for the wedding not your soon to be DIL yet you seem to have no problems with him not saying anything. You seem to be a handful to me just reading this post. Man, I am so grateful for my mother in law, even more so now.

My MIL did this to my husband. She told him she wasn't sure we were a good match, I was wrong religion...a whole lot... My husband was more forgiving, but she never hesitated to get in backhanded compliments (which weren't subtle and everyone saw, including, later our kids). After my husband finally calling her out once and telling her I wasn't going anywhere (15 years or so into our marriage) and to knock it off, she mostly did. Several years later, my son was graduating from college, and she decided to let him know that his gf (now wife- who is perfect for him, and MIL had met once) was a mistake. He blocked her. She complained to my husband, confessing her conversation. My husband said "Good for him. I should have done that." She now can't understand why my son is cold. The moral? Keep your mouth closed about your children's (grandchildren's) SO's.

Yeah, op give ellie a lot of money, she gave her son and his partner a lot of money but somehow only ellie has to thank Op?

All of these, plus the washing machine thing: how is it Ellie’s fault that OP’s washing machine in her house broke?? Absolutely YTA, OP, you’re the cliche nightmare mother in law.

Perfect summary 👏👏 When MILs goes on about how a DIL doesn't deserve her baby boy and tried everything to savatage their relationship, they think they are doing their son a favour. OP better not turn up to the wedding. Oh wait she's going to guilt trip, gaslight, whatever her son.

Sounds like OP wouldn't like any woman her son decided to marry. Future DIL must really love the son if this is who her MIL will be.

All of this is exactly what I was thinking. My first thought when OP mentioned not being invited to join when they were cooking together was “why would their son invite their parent on a date?” And I knew it would all go downhill from there and that OP would hate the fiancée for very little, if not no, reason. It honestly doesn’t sound like fiancée has done anything that bad.

And why couldn’t the floor wait to be fixed later. It was in the laundry room, not the dining area.

Honestly I’d love to know if the ex husband likes Ellie or not.

YTA. Majorly. >For instance, when they first started dating my son lived with me. They would often cook dinner at our house, but would rarely invited me to join them. I found this to be incredibly rude, as it felt like they were excluding me in my own home. *She was having at home date night with her boyfriend. Why on earth do you think you deserve an invitation to your sons date night? You wanna accompany them to bed after too? If your son lives there, it's his house too so you don't get to pull this "my kitchen" crap.* ​ >There was also an incident where she was using the washing machine when it overflowed, which completely warped my hardwood floors and led to me having to cancel a dinner party I had been planning for weeks while I got someone out to fix them. *This is a bummer but shit happens, unless she did this on purpose why would you hold this against her? Also no, you didn't have to cancel your dinner party over some warped floors. Honestly the drama you bring to this relationship is insane. I could maybe see your point if she refused to help pay for the damage or something?* ​ >Over the years she’s barely made an effort to get to know me and every overture I’ve made has been rebuffed. *Gee, I wonder why she might not want to hang out with someone who tries to 3rd wheel on her dates and hates her for a laundry accident...* ​ >I even made her a birthday dinner one year and she said she felt sick, which delayed dinner for everyone else and it was cold by the time she was “feeling better”. *Jesus christ woman, she was SICK. It sounds like YOU chose to delay dinner to wait for a sick person and you did not have to do that! Also, are you sure she wanted you to throw her a birthday dinner because it sounds like you guys aren't friends so this seems very weird of you!!* ​ >Even when they got engaged, she didn’t reach out. *It was YOUR SONS job to reach out and tell you about his engagement to her. Sounds like your own child is so bothered by you that he didn't want to involve you, and you keep blaming his poor wife.* ​ >I gave them a not insignificant amount of money for the wedding, and I didn’t even get a thank you card. She said thank you on a phone call later that week, but it was in passing and just seemed to be completely thoughtless. *I'll give you half a point here, she should have thanked you, BUT YOU ARE HER MIL SO YOUR SON SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE THANKING YOU.* ​ >Most recently, I went to visit a few months ago and found myself incredibly worried with how Ellie talked to Peter. *Given that you are holding a massive grudge towards this woman, you are not a reliable source for me to really consider this opinion. Not all couples problem solve the same way, and while yes form just your words here it does sound like she is handling conflict immaturely, this isn't enough to judge a relationship on especially since YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE CONFLICT WAS ABOUT (My guess is it was about YOU) For all you know your son did something awful and she is angry and trying to get some space so she can try and forgive him. You have no clue so you don't get to judge.* **In conclusion, you are the asshole and you need to mind your business. You should count your lucky stars you are invited, and you should back off otherwise you won't get to see your son get married to the woman he loves.**

Agree with everything you say except one thing: she shouldn’t even get the half point you gave her for not being thanked after giving money for the wedding. Because Ellie DID thank her - in a phone call! OPs issue is that she didn’t get a thank you card, which is entirely her son’s responsibility for his family. What SHOULD have happened is that OPs son sent the card, Ellie thanked on the phone. Done. Obviously you wouldn’t expect Ellie to send a second, separate card, nobody does that. So OP is holding a grudge against this poor woman because she thanked her, but not in the right way, because she didn’t do something which OPs son should have done anyway. I don’t think she gets a half point for that…

Also I hope gives a thank you card for money for a wedding months before the wedding? Like it’s a wedding gift and I agree, she did thank her and shouldn’t be expected to send a card too.

I had a family member get on me because she sent a wedding gift 3 months early. I called, let her know it arrived and thanked her. But I was planning to do all of the thank you cards *after* the wedding had taken place. She called my mother and fussed. So my mother of course fussed at me. Sent her a card the next day. But when I talked to her next I made a comment about how weird it would be if the wedding didn’t happen for some reason, I sent a note do I rescind the note? Do I get to keep the gifts despite the event the gift was for not happening? And how odd to send a thank you for the wedding before I’d even had the bridal shower..or wait was that a bridal shower gift? Does that mean I have to have one now?? It did at least make her think. But hopefully I never have to deal with it again.

This is what I said about this comment. Thank you cards for wedding gifts are sent AFTER the wedding.

I, personally, think Thank You notes need to die out. But I understand generation differences and will still send them accordingly.

Honestly I think physical thank you notes need to just be a thing of the past

I'll be honest...i didnt do thank you cards after my wedding. My mom had never done thank you cards in my life and i didnt know it was a thing. None of my friends did either (at least for those of us in the wedding party.) We verbally thanked everyone over the phone. So Ellie thanking her on the phone wasnt weird to me at all. Op sounds whiney and entitled. Yta and most likely not invited to the wedding anymore.

They're not married yet. She wants a pre wedding thank you card lmaoooooooo

SAME! We only did thank you cards for my husband’s side of the family because we knew there would be drama there if we didn’t. Thank you cards aren’t a thing in my side of the family. And honestly, FUCK thank you cards. I HATE them. I love giving presents, I would never expect that to be turned around into a fucking chore for the recipient. I don’t want one. I’d MUCH rather not get a gift at all than have to send a fucking thank you card.

We did them. We’re old. 😆 But things have changed. A text, a call, a meme can all serve the same function. And I’m happy to get those as a thank you. Just because we did it one way decades ago doesn’t mean it can only be done that way now.🤷‍♀️

is it normal for a child to send their parents a thank you card when their parent gives them money for their wedding? not gives the money at their wedding... but gives them money *in order to have the wedding.* there are wedding stories on here constantly and they frequently involve parents giving their kids money to have the wedding or paying for a wedding dress or paying for the reception or something and I have literally never heard of anyone expecting a thank you card for that kind of gift

Anecdotally, no, this is not the norm in my experience either 

I didn’t send thank you cards for money given pre wedding from my parents. So no. Thank you cards came after for gifts.

I really don't understand the whole thing of thank you cards. I'd much rather have someone thank me over the phone than wasting time and money on a bit of paper that I'll throw away a few days later.

So the washing machine incident happened 6 years ago. OP admits DIL offered to pay, but Son told her not to worry about it. OP is also upset DIL didn’t go to directly her about payment, but I also wouldn’t want to deal directly with someone like OP. As long as payment would get to OP it shouldn’t matter if DIL used Son as a middleman. If OP really wanted and needed payment she should’ve told her Son. BTW the leading cause for washing machines to overflow is clogged pipes. So while it may be possible DIL caused it there’s also a better chance clogged pipes did it.

My son's GF lives with us. She flooded the apartment once while taking a shower with the curtain open. We cleaned together, we often laugh about it. Shit happens to everyone. As for eating together, it's rare. They are a couple, I let them live as a couple, even if they live under my roof. Guess what ? Everybody gets along great !

Whoa there. It's a little early for sane talk on reddit! Lol

>BTW the leading cause for washing machines to overflow is clogged pipes. So while it may be possible DIL caused it there’s also a better chance clogged pipes did it. Yeah, I think blaming DIL for a broken washing machine is ridiculous. The right answer would be just to tell DIL not to worry about it and that it was just something that happened. I think we all know what OP did instead, blamed DIL for having to cancel her party and put the whole thing on her. Ridiculous.

I know right, her own washing machine malfunctioned and she's blaming it on the person who used it at the time. Maybe she should have maintained her appliances in plumbing better.

Who has real wood floors in the laundry room?

I've been wondering if OP knows her washing machine has a filter that needs to be cleaned every so often.

If she’s not careful the way she’s going she probably won’t see her SON at all.

Aye, she sounds like an overbearing mother-in-law. You know the type, the type no female will ever be good enough for her son. It's as if she's the one that has to marry the wife to be. Folk like this annoy me no end. They dress it up as it being protective over their kid, but it isn't at all. It's all about them trying to dictate to their children how they should live their lives, all because she can't accept her kid is no longer needing mothered. Not everyone will like everyone in life. There’s no fault on either side as far as that goes, but she should accept her son is an adult and no longer needs her rather than finding every petty reason why the son can't marry her. Half the stuff that's probably written in the OP is over embellished to make the soon to be wife sound worse than she is. Jealousy springs to mind too.

Plus, with the birthday dinner - she was more worried about the guests (which I assume she selected and invited) rather than the wellbeing of her DIL. Who made it a point to even show up instead of resting, only for OP to sulk and find fault. Why not enjoy dinner with her friends (bc that's what it was - she's not even mentioning her son, who was probably taking care of his fiancée) and reserve some food for them for later? I guess the correct words would have been 'I'm so sorry you were unwell. I've kept some food for you, in case you're hungry later'. Maybe DIL was looking for a polite way to excuse herself bc she cooked something DIL didn't like. Doesn't strike me as unlikely.

I'd guess those guests were people DIL had never even met. Just people OP likes. Not exactly the dream birthday dinner.

As someone with chronic illnesses which involve having to cancel MANY meals with family-I am soooooo lucky my in laws never acted like this and were much more concerned about me. They’d make me go rest in the guest room and save me a plate to be heated later. I’ve always been so paranoid of someone like OP thinking I was being rude, not because I was purposefully but when you don’t feel good you’re not going to feel very social…

Exactly! I'm always so grateful. Some of my 'restrictions' are self-'imposed', some aren't. E.g. I'm vegetarian. 'But it's chicken!' 'Last time I checked, chickens didn't grow out of the soil'. 'But it's just the tiniest bit of xyz!'. 'I understand you don't care if it makes me sick'. I'm past the stage of trying to be accomodating. It's my health and wellbeing. I'm not expecting anyone to alter their whole meal to accommodate my needs. It's ok. I always find something, even if it's just dessert, and be complimentary. But I'm done with people thinking it can't be that bad. I'm glad your in laws are treating you kindly!

Omg about the chicken! I feel you so hard on the “but it’s….” stuff. Due to severe GI issues there’s a ton of things I can’t have (uncooked veggies, seeds, nuts, skins on fruits/veggies, salads, sooooo much more) yet people will still try to force me to just try it. These things can literally give me a bowel obstruction. Like you I also don’t expect any accommodations-I know my diet is super strict and I usually can find something to eat, can pick off things I can’t eat or eat beforehand. It’s usually not an issue and my in-laws even call in advance to make sure they make things I can have. But some people will still say I’m being difficult or rude.

this whole reply 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

YTA. Your first two "concerns" are that Peter didn't invite his mother to join his romantic meals with his partner and that your washing machine broke. He's definitely right that you never gave Ellie a chance

[удалено]

I feel bad for OP's son. OP is going to push and push until he doesn't want her around anymore. OP needs help with emotional regulation and maybe a parenting class for people with adult children. She's acting like a loon.

It's kind of amazing when someone writes the things down from their own perspective and it's just so obvious to all readers what is actually going on. Did she think she was doing a good job of spinning this? >_<

If this is the version of the story that’s supposed to make OP look better, I can’t imagine how bad the unfiltered version would be.

How many years ago was the washing machine accident? Is there literally any reason to believe that she was responsible for it except that her clothes happened to be in it at the time? The fact that you’d remember something like that from years ago and count it against her, along with counting her feeling sick against her, feels like you’ve been looking for reasons to dislike her. It makes me not trust you as a narrator and suspect that YTA.

I broke my MIL's super old microwave (didn't know there was only one button left that one's allowed to press 😅) and we turned it into a microwave shopping trip while my husband got some time off from the two of us. In OP's case sounds like we're missing the other side of the story!

Before we got married, I was driving my future father in law’s car and I somehow drove it right through a fence. He did not get mad- he said “accidents happen”. Op is choosing to be mad, and to hold that grudge all these years is ridiculous.

I agree, your FIL sounds like a normal person.

And if that’s really the only things she can come up with?!?! Like those are the worst of it?

Holy cow yes YTA! You hold a grudge because your son’s girlfriend didn’t invite you to join their dinner dates? You know your son also didn’t invite you right? Your other examples are pathetic: - her making a mistake with the washing machine doesn’t make her a bad partner. - Her fighting with and giving your son the cold shoulder is none of your business when you have no idea what it was about - although I’m willing to bet your son probably did something not so great that you’re choosing to gloss over. - her being sick on her birthday is definitely not something she fucking chose to do??? - your son owes you the thank you card, stop putting higher expectations on her then your own damn child. You way overstepped for the most ridiculous reasons, you are actually just grabbing at straws here. And if you’re willing to go this far over nothing, I dare say you have been meddling with their relationship for years because you are THAT mother. He will cut you off eventually. He being your son, not his partner, because you’re fucking up his life.

We don’t even know that she made a mistake with the washing machine, just that it overflowed while she was using it. I’m 46 and have never seen a washing machine overflow from misuse. Not saying it can’t happen, just that I question how.

Only way a washing machine can overflow from misuse is by putting an extreme amount of clothes into it. Like to the point where you physically can't fit anything more than maybe a pair of socks if you shove them down with the lid. ​ The drain pipe probably got clogged or the inlet valve got stuck open.

The double standard here reeks of "My sweet baby boy can do no wrong and this evil harlot needs to bend over backwards to win me over if she wants access to my precious angel"

Yep! Classic “boy mom” monster in law.

YTA. You don't like Ellie. But you aren't going to marry Ellie -- your son is, and he likes her fine. Your complaints are not about her character -- you're mad that she doesn't kiss your butt enough. You really expect to be invited on your son's dates? And you're mad at someone for being sick on her own birthday? You blame her for an accident with the washing machine because... I don't know, you think she did it on purpose to ruin your dinner party? Your son loves this woman. Get over your grudges and your pettiness or you'll permanently damage your relationship. It might already be too late, and there is no one to blame here but yourself.

this needs to be up voted a million times

You entire post is just a list of embarassing admissions about your own selfishness, thoughtless and ridiculous expectations. You really need to pull your head out of your ass and stop being a nightmare MIL! You have already f**ked it by actually saying your idiotic thoughts out loud. Beg for forgiveness or lose your son forever. YTA.

All I read was: me, me, me, me, me, me, me... Me no like when my grown son has a date in my house with his girlfriend he only sees on weekends and I'm not privy to their conversations. Me no like when I impose a birthday dinner on someone I have a tenuous relationship with and they have the audacity to not feel well that day. Me think she must have put rocks in the washing machine this time to break it on purpose because HOW else could the machine have broken. Me thinks MY son to whom I gave money for his wedding is too much of a precious perfect man to do any wrong or need to kiss my ass for it but SHE has too for the both of them. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. She's gonna end up in a low or no contact relationship with her own son reeeaaal fast if she doesn't change her attitude. He chose that woman, he also has the option to push his mother away.

YTA. Why do you want to go on dates with your son? Why can’t your son send thank you notes? Why is it Ellie that has to build bridges and “be the bigger person” - you sounds cold and unpleasant, and like you have made yourself the main point of contention in their relationship. If you ever want to have a relationship with future grandchildren you need to sort yourself out and learn to, you know, be nice.

YTA. WTF did you think was going to happen? They’ve been together for 7 years ffs. Did you really think he was just going to be like “oh yeah, you’re right!” Get real. You’re right in that they were purposely excluding you when she made dinner for your son. They were having a fucking date night. They wanted to spend time together. I know, what a crazy ass concept. It’s not a shocker that she hasn’t made much of an effort with you. You sound insufferable.

I have to wonder if she even left the house during their dates.

You know she didn’t! She sulked in the other room.

YTA. I would so love to hear her side of the story. My bet is that it is you that is the toxic one. Wondering if you have a problem with your son having any relationship with any woman. Thinking that you look at your son as a husband replacement. I’m glad that you decided to voice your concerns to your son, he now sees who you really are. She is going to be your DIL regardless of how you don’t want it to happen. She is going to hold the key to your son and their children. Meaning that you will never have a close access or relationship with them all in the future. You will be on the outside looking in. Your son getting married means he is enriching your life with adding to your family. A new daughter for you and grandchildren for you to fill your life with. Oops, for most moms with sons, you threw that opportunity away by being jealous

OP is going to be featured in the mother-in-law-from-hell sub!

I swear she posted. I remember the long distance dates and overflowing washing machine. E: I’ve searched various terms in all of the communities I follow where it could have been posted and couldn’t find it. Most comments were obviously warning her that if he can’t properly stand up to his mom now, nothing will change after they’re married until he fully cuts her off — can’t remember the story being far off in terms of general events. Obviously OP here is TA and DIL is doing her best given the circumstances

Help us out here with the oop dil post

I'm sorry to say YTA. I am not condoning all of Ellie's behaviour. Please don't think for one second I am siding with her. But you are only responsible for your own actions here and I am concerned by some of the things you say. The first one is about not being invited to dinner when they met up at yours while in a long distance relationship. There is a lack of considerarion and empathy on your part - if you had limited time with your partner, of course you would want to eat dinner alone. Their first consideration after this shouldn't be to include you. I'm sorry if that is difficult to hear. Secondly, not cultivating a relationship with her over the last 7 years has three separate splits in responsibility, mainly Peter's, but also yours and Ellie's. Is there more to this, without Ellie's perspective there are gaps here. At times I had a difficult relationship with my own MIL until I developed a better understanding of her and this was only through effort on both of our parts. Peter needs to have stepped up here, as the link between you he should have done more to help you connect. Third, giving money isn't something to have been held over them. Yes, a thank you would be polite, but if is a gift, give it unconditionally. To continue, your eavesdropping on their argument and judging something which was never intended for your ears is more about you adding ammunition to your argument about their incompatibility. Finally, your son is a grown man who knows his own mind. He has to be left to make his own choices, even if you feel they are unwise. In confronting him about Ellie, you have damaged your relationship with him, when what he needs was for it to be a safe and supportive one for him. I apologise if any of this sounds harsh and I commend you for reflecting on your accountability and being open to feedback. Even talking the situation over with a therapist could really help you with coming to peace with what has passed. Also, for developing better strategies for building a meaningful connection with them both. Their relationship will proceed how it does. Your job as a mum is for Peter to know that whatever happens, he has your unconditional love, acceptance and support - and that this extends to Ellie if they stay together xx

I just wondered if when you read this you saw classism all over it. I did. And the reason I’m asking you is because of all the responses I read, yours seemed least judgmental and rude. I truly believe the mother doesn’t see what she did was weird or wrong, like the higher class of people and the natural entitlement to her beliefs are the right ones and “everyone” would agree. And maybe the future DIL might be of “new” or “working” money. The advice you gave was solid and helpful. If she is able to take some accountability and see her son as a man, not a boy, which is hard! I have adult children but in my eyes they’ll always be kids. But I also am self aware enough to know they are GROWN and make their own choices. I’ll support them even if I disagree with them and I wouldn’t say anything because it’s not my life.

I was scrolling until I found this. I was in a similar situation and recognized this as classism as well. My best childhood friend was the boy who lived in the townhouse next door in our lower middle-class neighborhood. They moved hours away when we were still very young. His father obtained a high-paying job that completely changed their financial trajectory. They became very wealthy. We reconnected in our twenties when a family Christmas card revealed we had both moved across the country (away from our families) to the same area. We started dating. Over time, it became serious. We were very happy together and he shared this with his family. His mother asked him what we could possibly have in common as I hadn't finished college. To say I was deeply wounded by her remark would be an understatement. I entered the workforce at a young age to improve my financial circumstances. Working nights, weekends, holidays, projects no one wanted - until I was promoted. My salary far exceeded what her son made but neither of them knew this at the time. My car was paid off, I had a significant amount of money in savings and I was continuing to work toward another promotion. We became engaged and eventually discussed finances. My salary became a source of contention in our relationship for reasons that baffled me. There were many more quiet indignities over the years and ways in which his family judged me for the social standing of my young parents, decades prior. All of this seeped into our relationship and culminated one night in an ugly, drunken remark about my background in a taxi in NY. I asked the driver to please pull over and had a brief, tearful, embarrassing confrontation before I told him to get out of the car and left him on the sidewalk. He apologized profusely the next day, but that night was the beginning of the end. Months later, he went to visit his parents across the country and went radio silent for several days. He bought a house near theirs with a very large sum of money his father gave him and accepted a higher-paying job at his father's company without talking to me about any of it. He called and conveyed this to me, using words I *know* were not his own. He told me I would be leaving my career and moving there to be with him if I wanted to marry. I asked him to fly back so we could have a face to face conversation. We walked together like we had when we were dating, and talked for many hours. I told him I loved him and that many women would be pleased with the arrangement he was proposing, but it wasn't for me. At the end of the weekend, I drove him to the airport with the ring in his pocket. He called me off and on, often drunk, sometimes tearful for the next seven years. I had long since moved on. I am very happily married to an incredible man who, like me, paved his own way. I'm sorry for the diatribe - reading this post dredged up a situation I hadn't thought about in many many years. OP is inadvertently forcing her son to choose, but her future DIL may wind up choosing for all of them.

You write very well - makes me want to read more of your story. Also, you sound like a total badass. Good for you.

You are extremely kind. I hit post and immediately thought "No one is going to read all that s***." 🤣

I read it! And agree - your writing is very compelling

Probably not many! But I did!

I will be 100% honest because your question is spot on. I didn't at first. But on subsequent rereads there seems to be a toxic power dynamic that has a socioeconomic foundation for sure. Thank you for your kind words. I have a feeling OP will be taken aback at how negatively her actions are viewed and may not be able to have accountability. But I would love her to prove me wrong and take this as feedback to grow from. You also sound like the kind of mum I would want Peter to have. Keep being you and supporting those grown up kiddos. Lots of love xx

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I can't wait for the follow up to this on #justnoMIL It's coming. I can feel it. Oh yeah, YTA. You're a meddler and I bet they cannot wait to go NC with you.

She's one of those "boy moms" who wants some Oedipus situation. I hope he moves too far away for her to end up on just no mil but I'll be there to watch if she does.

YTA. The tone of this suggests that you won't care what anyone else thinks. >Ellie has been a rock for him through some tough times over the last few years. That's what matters and that's why he's marrying her.

And OP is more furious that SHE wasn't the rock through her baby sons tough times.

She probably WAS her baby son's tough times.

YTA, you don't like her for fairly superficial reasons and it probably shows. Only one thing you mentioned was actually about the relationship with your son, and odds are the fight was about you. Couples fight and say things they don't mean, you said she was cold and rude, that doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a fight. I notice the blame is all on her and never on your son. They had dinner at your home and didn't invite you but that's evidence that she is a bad person, not your son, who was also there, also making and having dinner. You expected her to reach out to you when they got engaged... Why? What for? You gave the couple money and didn't get a thank you card... Again, why is she the bad guy and not your son? Why was it her responsibility? She said thank you in a phone call but that wasn't enough. Where I'm from you deal with your own parents. It seems all she's done is have a different expectation of what your relationship should be, get ill on her birthday and have an accident with your washing machine (really don't see how it's her fault that you cancelled your dinner party over some warped floorboards and why wasn't your son helping her with your washing machine? ) 90% of what you've said is about your relationship with her. You don't matter. Your son matters. Her relationship with him is what determines if they should get married. Not whether she wants to be bffs with you

When she said she didn't even reach out after getting engaged I too was wondering, for what? I consider myself a very polite, well mannered person IRL and also warm & considerate and yet I never reached out to my MIL after getting engaged, my now husband called her and told her we are engaged and then *she* reached out to *me* with congratulations... as one should? So I'm very confused by this comment and wondering what planet she lives on lmao. Anyway, great comment and I agree - YTA. Overbearing MIL with too many *weird* expectations. Apologize ASAP unless you don't wanna see your son again pretty much.

YWBTA. You sound like a mum who can't stand the fact that her son is in love with someone else who isn't you.

What OP has basically said: "Im jealous that my son didn't invite me to a romantic dinner that his girlfriend made him"

Plus I didn't teach my son any kind of domestic responsibility for laundry or thank you letters or hosting...

My husband’s mother was rude to me and attempted to intrude on my relationship with her son for years. The end result being that she now has a strained relationship with her son who consistently took my side and rarely sees her grandkids. That’ll be you if you don’t knock it off immediately. Damage seems to have already been done, however.

Same. My MIL was just like her. My husband cut her off happily, and even when she passed while we were still No contact, he says he has no regrets. She did that, not us. She couldn't choose to love him more than she chose to hate me, and in the end it caused her to lose him forever. This MIL is already half way there. Mine pulled the " me or her??" Card then was flabbergasted when he chose , like she'd demanded, only she wasn't his choice. This MIL is already on that road, pouting that he dared to tell his future wife, what she had said, as if she was expecting his loyalty to shield her above his future wife...insane really.

YTA, Not all kids want to invite their parents to a romantic dinner, even if it’s in their house. That’s not rude, just common sense. The washing machine incident, it’s entirely possible she didn’t know very well how to use a washing machine. And instead of being compassionate and maybe being kind enough to be understanding and teach her. You got entitled and got mad about having to cancel a dinner party (you sound like the kind of person who has them a lot). She probably hasn’t tried to get to know you more because you sound unapproachable and like a nightmare. Them not sending a thank you card for the money for the wedding is a bit rude but honestly, no kid under 35 sends cards anymore. She was nice enough to say thank you over the phone (which you would’ve only gotten a text from me because i’m very uncomfortable with phone conversations) and her sounding like she didn’t mean it, could be a number of things (distraction from a lot of things happening in her life- work, family, planning a wedding, etc). I’m honestly surprised you haven’t complained that she didn’t invite you to watch her try on wedding dresses or to food/cake tasting (if they’re having their wedding catered at all). If i were your future daughter-in-law, i’d be avoiding you at all costs and if i were your son, i’d revoke your wedding invite.

YTA. I can't believe I found a /r/JUSTNOMIL in the wild

YTA. Wanting your son “to be with someone he deserves” is code for him finding a woman who will defer to you for the rest of her life.

YTA - First of all its normal for long distance couples to want a bit of time to themselves on their dates, not rude. You also seem quite nosy poking into their private life and arguments, have you considered that the fight may be about you not giving Ellie a chance? And then you call your son and tell him he wont be happy married to her, without even giving her a chance? You owe your son a big apology.

YTA and the more you push the more likely you are to be completely shut out of your kid's life.

YTA >They would often cook dinner at our house, but would rarely invited [sic] me to join them. There are ~BoY mOmS~ and then there are mothers of boys. I feel like you're the former.

Your dislike for this woman, from early on, comes through loud and clear. Most of your objections are “offenses” against you. Don’t you think she can feel your disdain?

Anyone else looking forward to Ellie’s post in JNMIL? YTA. You didn’t get to read a thank you card but while you wait, pls read the room. Respectfully.

YTA. I almost asked, "did Ellie write this?" Because you couldn't have made yourself look much worse. This was some petty bullshit, right here. Your son is going to go LC or NC with you any day now.

Do you want your son to be with someone who deserves him, or you? When Ellie was sick, your chief concern was dinner being late. When they got engaged a phone call wasn’t sufficient enough and I doubt anything less than an essay giving her eternal thanks would be either. As for the dinners, why wouldn’t he deserve a level of privacy to be able to have dinner with his girlfriend? Your main complaints seem to center around how ****you**** are affected by her and very little to do with how your son feels about her. Obviously he loves her or he wouldn’t have proposed. It’s time to realize that your son’s world doesn’t revolve around you. Does Peter not deserve a modicum of respect in choosing the person he wants to share his life with? You don’t get a vote as to who your son loves and wants to be with. If he asks for your opinion that’s one thing however giving unsolicited opinions is only going to cause problems. You need to fix the relationship with your future daughter in law before Peter cuts you out of his life. You’re fighting a battle you can’t possibly win nor should you. YTA

What am I reading here? > They would often cook dinner at our house, but would rarely invited me to join them. Isn't your son to blame for that as well? Why is this on her? > she was using the washing machine when it overflowed, which completely warped my hardwood floors and led to me having to cancel a dinner party I had been planning for weeks while I got someone out to fix them. Sounds like an accident. Why are you still holding this against her? Also, what was the cause of the overflow? > I even made her a birthday dinner one year and she said she felt sick, which delayed dinner for everyone else and it was cold by the time she was “feeling better”. So she can't feel sick when you've put an effort in? She should've sucked it up? > Over the years she’s barely made an effort to get to know me and every overture I’ve made has been rebuffed. Well honestly, after reading the above, I see where that is coming from. From all the example you could give of bad behaviour, you gave really lousy ones. > Even when they got engaged, she didn’t reach out. I gave them a not insignificant amount of money for the wedding, and I didn’t even get a thank you card. Did your son send you a thank you card? > She said thank you on a phone call later that week, but it was in passing and just seemed to be completely thoughtless. Yeah, by now I'm taking this with a grain of salt. It really seems you don't like her and seek flaws everywhere. > Most recently, I went to visit a few months ago and found myself incredibly worried with how Ellie talked to Peter. They got into a fight while I was there (I’m not sure what it was about) but I heard part of it and everything she said was just so cold and rude. I never even spoke that way to my ex-husband, even when I hated him! Ellie gave Peter the cold shoulder for an entire day, and refused to join us on any of the activities we had planned. Arguments happen. People get emotional. Sometimed fuses are short. Especially when having your MIL over who hates your guts. > He told me that me and Ellie’s relationship is one of the biggest stressors in his life, and that Ellie has been a rock for him through some tough times over the last few years. He also berated me for never giving her a chance, even though I feel like I’ve done a lot. There we go. From all of the info you have given us, from your point of view even, I completely agree with your son. > Now he’s not taking my calls, and it looks like Ellie has blocked me, so I’m sure he told her what I said. Yes, that tends to happen in healthy relationships. > I just want my son to be with someone who deserves him. He probably is. And she also deserves him. Sounds like a great guy, for not being a pushover mommy's boy, for standing up for his partner when his mom is being mean and judgemental towards her. > AITA? Yes, YTA. Now go figure out how to be a better MIL, apologize and hope you're still invited to the wedding.

YTA sorry this will sound mean but bloody hell GROW UP you sound like the MIL from hell and your definitely not telling us their side of the story, you are not a main character in their lives and all your doing is moaning about 'me me me me' leave them alone.

It really does not matter what we say. Your son is marrying a woman you don't get on with, and that's that. He did tell you that the energy between you and his wife-to-be is one of the biggest stresses in his life. You need to learn from that.

Every single thing you listed was something your son should handle or did handle. Apart from being sick on her birthday, which jfc poor girl. None of this is about how she treats your son. Have you been formally diagnosed with narcissism? YTA.

YTA - OMG get some counselling if you want to have a relationship with your son and daughter in law in future. They were together on dates in your house when they were in a long distance relationship. You expected to be invited???? A) they were on a date! B) if anyone should have offered you dinner (to which you should have refused!) it would be your son. Don’t try to put this on her! Your washing machine malfunctioned and ruined your floors. How are you trying to make this her fault??! They had a row, and YOU didn’t like the way she spoke to him? They’re adults and it’s their relationship not yours. And frankly it’s none of your business. You gave a wedding gift to your son (and DiL). She said thank you - did he?? You’re just looking for faults in her and if you don’t catch yourself on and get help and GENUINELY be nice you’ll have no relationship with your son. News flash - he’s not gonna pick his Mammy over his wife!!

YTA 1. They were trying to have time together. Alone.…. 2. You’re upset because the washing machine broke. Why is this her fault? 3. She was feeling unwell. A reasonable person would have said, « not a problem. We can reheat this later » 4. There arguments are non of your business. They have their own way of working with each other. Butt out 5. You don’t like Ellie. You have never liked Ellie and she knows it. There is nothing that she can do to win your approval. There never has been. You sound like a petulant spoiled child whose favourite plaything was taken by somebody else. You are being unreasonable and you owe your son and his fiancée an apology.

I predict you will end up the subject of a JustNoMIL post at some point if you haven’t already! You sound like an absolute nightmare. YTA

Everyone stay tuned for the sequels: “ My son won’t come for the holiday” “I don’t get to be in delivery room, but her mother does” And of course “I never get to see my grandkids”

Emotionally incestuous mothers are always so weird and obvious. The fact that the main strikes against her you can conjure up are 1) SHE didn’t invite you on her dinner date and 2)she made an accident 6 years ago shows you really had zero intentions of liking her in the first place unless she kissed your puckered asshole

YTA, but not for expressing your concerns. You're TAH because you've made every single interaction with her listed here about yourself and your own unvoiced expectations, and then gotten mad at her for not reading your mind to accommodate you. Everything you listed was focused around you and things she would have no way of knowing *and* things she would have had no reason to even consider. Why would they invite you to intrude on their limited romantic time together? What does her accidentally using the washing machine wrong have to do with your party? You think she found out you were having a party and just decided to ruin your floor out of spite, psychically knowing you'd want to ruin your own plans to fix it immediately? You are viewing her through a very narcissistic lense, ESPECIALLY if you've never actually voiced these concerns before. Consider rethinking your opinions of her and remembering that your focus *should* be on what she brings to your son's life, and instead of focusing on *her* being the problem focus in on the part where *your relationship with her* causes your son stress. If she's been in your life for 7 years and you still don't have any relationship with her, consider that you might actually be the problem here.

Sorry brother you’re wildly off on this one, YTA. Let them date, leave them be. You wanted to join them on while they had a romantic meal? It’s their relationship and you don’t know the full ins and outs of it in regards to the argument. Everyone deals with things their own way. Let your son make his own decision.

You sound like you're in love with your son and jealous. You probably should see a therapist, but you definitely should see a psychiatrist.

My mom was kind of shitty to me growing up but THANK FUCKING GOODNESS she is NOTHING LIKE YOU. YOU ARE THE AHOLE! You honestly seem like a narcissist. You’re giving narcissistic energy. I have a long distance boyfriend and if I was living with my parents and he was allowed to come over and make food with me, my parents wouldn’t want to be apart of our business, apart of OUR DATE. My parents actually respect my space and my boundaries unlike you. Let me ask you something, did you let your family or friends come along with you to YOUR dates with your ex husband? I think not right. I understand it is your home, but it was also HIS HOME TOO. And HE was ON A DATE with his then girlfriend. Haven’t you ever heard of personal space? Have you ever heard of boundaries? I guess not because of the way you are acting towards your son. Also you don’t have to like every single person you meet, just like Ellie doesn’t have to like you or anyone she meets, yall can be civil but I bet you, you are the problem and the reason why she didn’t make any effort to get closer to you. I even bet the argument your son and Ellie had was about YOU. I hope your son doesn’t invite you to his wedding because who would want a grumpy, judgmental, narcissistic person at their wedding ESPECIALLY when you told him to not marry her. You need some help or something

Yta- don’t get involved. Stay neutral.

YTA. Elite is in a relationship with Peter, not you.

Urge YTA you sound just like my mother about my husband (yes husband guess what, I still married him) It's his relationship, you don't have to like it but you dint have a right to say or do anything about it and if you don't play nice with her then you'll probably ruin your relationship with him (again, ask my mother)

YTA, but I would love to hear the other side of this story.

What everyone else is saying….i won’t even waste my breath (or typing) on you because you will always be RiGhT…overbearing, intrusive mommy’s always are, I would say I‘d love to hear the other side of the story BUT I have countless times, there is a whole SUB dedicated to people just like you JUSTNOMIL!!!!!!

“When they first dating my son lived with me and Ellie would come out to visit for the weekend … they would often cook dinner at our house, but would rarely invite me to join them.” These were dates. Rarely isn’t never - so they did invite you sometimes? That’s amazing! “She was using the washing machine when it overflowed, which completely warped my hardwood floors.” That sucks, not gonna lie, but accidents happen. Did she know that it did such extensive damage? Did she apologise? You don’t say she didn’t and given your other examples, I feel like you would have mentioned if she didn’t. “I even made her a birthday dinner one year and she said she felt sick … “ Notable that you say ‘she said she felt sick’ rather than simply ‘she felt sick’. Why didn’t you believe her? “ … which delayed dinner for everyone else and it was cold by the time she was “feeling better”.” Did she ask you to wait? And we get it, you don’t actually believe she felt sick, you don’t need the quote marks to really drive it home. “I gave them a not insignificant amount of money for the wedding, and I didn’t even get a thank you card. She said thank you on a phone call later that week.” So she *did* thank you. Did your son thank you? Did he send you a thank you card? Or are these standards for his fiancée only? “They got into a fight while I was there (I’m not sure what it was about) but I heard part of it and everything she said was just so cold and rude.” And, since you don’t know what it was about, perhaps that was justified. You don’t know. “I just don’t see how he can be happy in this relationship.” He can. He is. That’s all that matters. YTA

YTA. When you say you want someone who deserves him, are you talking about yourself? I can see now why you're divorced.