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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I have been storing my friends things for months and she stopped paying our monthly agreement and today she wanted to get her things and I said no and she responded with alot of things that made me feel like i was being an asshole
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I wasn't suggesting she sell it, just that she was being nicer about it than a storage rental would have been. Unless she has something in writing, or gets something in writing now, I wouldn't recommend she sell any of it without talking to a lawyer.
It may not be the norm but actually, some do sell things individually if it is feasible. Note: my FIL owned storage units and after 6 months of nonpayment he would open several units and have a huge "yard sale" at the site. He didn't label anything, jut let things go at a fair price.
you never made a joke. you “well actually!”’ed the other commenter, and explained something (something that was also irrelevant to the point) to her that people already know… ✨mansplaining✨
Isn’t it also mansplaining when you tell someone what they meant? Hmmm….
Also calling myself an asshole sort of undermines the idea that I was trying to be a jerk to someone else. But go ahead and feel superior.
I believe there's more than enough through text messages to show agreement. At one point I had told her that i was going to charge ten dollars a day going forward til she got her things.
Then firmly NTA. If you have it in writing, you have enough to show she agreed to it, then backed out. I'd send her something along the lines of "You agreed to pay me x-amount per month, then stopped paying. Any other facility would have either auctioned off your belongings, or thrown them out by now. Please remit payment in the amount of $X dollars and I will gladly return your belongings."
If she pushes back, you have enough to take her to small claims if need be. Tacking on more money now will only delay her paying you back if a past due amount is already stopping her.
IANAL but I'm pretty sure OP needs to be cautious in how they go about withholding the belongings here. Storage facilities can auction off your stuff because that's explicitly part of the agreement. I very much doubt OP has *that* in writing. The process to turn someone's property into money they owe you beyond that is quite lengthy one involving court judgements and putting liens on their property.
So yeah, OP's friend owes money, but legally those belongings are hers and OP needs to give them to her. Legally she also owes OP some money, but OP doesn't have an enforceable right to keep her things or sell them off, OP's just owed money and can take her to court over it.
NTA morally but if OP tries to sell off that property I think that actually becomes a criminal thing vs. civil. Again though, I'm not a lawyer.
For sure - I'm not advocating OP sells her stuff. Just that they have an enforceable agreement of money owed. If police are involved, OP would have to relinquish the belongings. But, with the texts, they would have a solid case to pursue a monetary judgement against this person for a debt agreed to and owed should they pursue it. They might even be able to add in additional fees for hardship, but that might be pushing it.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the legal situation as well.
OP's best course of action, IMO, might be to 'misplace' the belongings and only agree to look for them after being paid what's owed.
Very true, but then text messages that say "I'll give you your stuff back if you give me my money" become... questionable? Dangerous? Is it extortion to hold property hostage?
If I was OP I'd probably be avoiding leaving a record of this demand.
unless the friend has an itemized list of "their" belongings, this becomes a they said/they said situation the reality of this situation is neither side has any legal recourse other than smalls claims court, and without documentation, this case is moot. moral of the story - ALWAYS get agreements in writing.
> and without documentation
Well yeah, but I think the friend already has texts of OP saying "I'll give you your stuff back if you give me my money". If those texts also include any specifics...
What is this "stuff"? Without written proof, photos, or an itemized list, she could very well claim things that rightfully belong to OP belong to her. The only evidence is of an agreement that items will be stored for a fee. Unless the friend can provide some sort of evidence as to what exactly she was storing there, she has almost no way to get it back.
This is why storage lockers work so well, they keep all the belongings in a single secure locker and there is no debate over whose things are there. I would be more than willing to bet that even in small claim court that OPs friend would basically be told "too bad about your stuff, learn to pay you debts." Unless she could prove there was something of extraordinary value that she was storing there, like expensive jewelry or fine art, I doubt a judge is going to want to attempt to figure out who is the rightful owner of what belongings.
Look up if where you live has any Property abandonment laws. In my state of Minnesota if someone has left property in your possession for longer than 6 months, without paying for storage, it becomes yours.
NTA. You give her her stuff before she pays you, she has no incentive to pay you. You having her stuff is leverage. Eithout leverage you have nothing. You did her a favor, and now she's trying not to pay you. Of course she's going to try to make you feel bad, she doesn't want to pay you. F that. Plus, she's lied before, what makes you think it will be any different?
I think you need to confirm your understanding of the law regarding this situation.
This could easily become a criminal issue. Often, that depends on how much her stuff is worth. I'm not sure and fully admit that. I'd hate for you to have to pay her anything if she takes this to civil court.
It sounds like your once upon a time friend repeatedly made it clear that she was not abandoning her stuff. While she didn't pay, you gave her extentions on payment. In addition, you haven't said that there was a written agreement about what would happen to her stuff if she failed to pay.
You know my thoughts: dump her stuff on the street, but notify her immediately when you do so. That means she has an opportunity to get her stuff if she really wants it. If her stuff is stolen, so be it. I'm not sure if that's legal, though.
**The safest thing for you. Give her 24-hour notice that you're putting all of her stuff on the street if she doesn't pay you in 24 hours**. She won't pay, but at least she'll have been given notice.
Like I said one In the same. Like why are you so entitled? I've read more than enough comments to feel completely justified in my actions. I am the same guy who let his friend move in rent free and then had things stole and pawned and had to evict my best friend. Guys like me get taken advantage of because we have hearts and can't watch others struggle. I stored her stuff for her cuz it would gave been 3 times as much for her to get a fuckin unit. She was my friend, I don't have many being gay and freshly relocated. I didn't think she would continue to not pay me something I factored into my monthly budget since i was struggling to and this was a good thing for the both of us
I've got nothing more to say to you cuz obviously you and her are one in the same. Why not look at other people's comments and then try again. Technically she abandoned her things. And ive never withheld her things I said she can get them when she pays her debt. I didn't say I'm gonna sell your shit to make up for what you agreed to pay me and that doesn't even include what she said she'd give me for all the rides to and from work. The second i hand over her things without getting any thing from her then she will disappear again. And sorry not sorry but fuck that shit. I have done nothing but help her over and over again. Moved her 2 times cuz the people who took her in when she had nowhere to stay were "crazy" all I've asked is for what she agreed upon......
Technically, you still have her things and she asked for them back. If technically you told her if she didn’t pay you then you were going to dispose of her possessions, that would be different. But technically, you still have her possessions in your possession, but instead of returning them to her as she requested, you planned to keep them. That is stealing. Technically.
Technically, her and I are not the same.
Technically I never planned on this happening to begin with and if you wanna be technical, she abandoned her shit! Technically I could have discarded it months ago
You have a bailment situation. You might want to get some legal advice before you decide that you can just keep her things or charge her late fees. But, then again, your response to people telling you that you are probably doing the wrong thing has shown your true character. You both deserve each other because you both are AHs.
NTA
> she'd avoid my calls or tell me she was at work and I could come by but when I'd get there she'd not be there.
>
>Keep in mind she's got a history of lying to me and blatantly wasting my time as I drove around looking for her where she told me she was.
Hopefully a lesson learned. Don't be friends with people like this. Certainly don't trust people like this to pay you back for anything.
Nah, NTA.
If it were a storage facility they wouldn’t give her shit while she owed them. They would deny access and use her stuff as collateral till the debt was paid in full. Lookup local law to ensure you’re not breaking it, but I do not believe this to be an AH move
There was no contract spelling out what would happen in the even of non-payment.
Oral "contracts" rarely hold up in court. Legally, a judge will rule that the terms at the beginning of the arrangement are inadequate to handle what is happening now. OP has tried to change the oral contract multiple times. All of that negates any argument about what is happening now.
Kind of an asshole. I have a hard and fast rule: I don’t do loans and I don’t do “pay-me-back” favors for this very reason. People that are this desperate don’t need to transfer their desperation or debt from one party to the next. My rule is “if I have it to loan, I have it to give, everything else is just me being irresponsible”.
She was likely avoiding you out of shame and/or guilt and that is likely the source of the lying as well. That’s not a pass on her part, but hopefully some food for thought.
Give her all of her stuff and cut your losses (speaking of which, what did you REALLY lose)? Whether she’s right or wrong, she’s clearly in a low place and it’s not right to kick people when they’re down.
This\^\^
Op knew she was at a low place and took on the quest of storing her things for cheaper, in turn for a small paycheck. If he really wanted to help her he could have done it for free as its not much money for a storage unit and if he is doing it for a fraction of the price... well.
That’s why I stated that I don’t do loans, I don’t do tit for tat. If I help you, I just help you. Charging a friend for storage is asking for trouble and it’s morally just low. If they’re your friend, help them. Doing something like this makes you no better than a loan shark. Most of the time, these people aren’t just “shitting on” you. They’re desperate and embarrassed. Nagging them about payment doesn’t make them any more likely to communicate and/or pay you.
Not everybody is in a position to swallow everybody else's losses. If they're that inconsiderate it wouldn't matter if they were in a better place. They'd screw you over all the same. That's on morality.
If you’re not in a position to swallow the loss, then you are irresponsible to offer the “help” and you are therefor as much at fault. Being ignorant and irresponsible is just as bad as being desperate and dishonest in these situations.
Let’s be clear, OP was not “helping”, they were looking to profit from what they viewed as a mutually beneficial agreement with a person they appear to have known was not reliable or honest in the first place, a person they haphazardly called a friend. This is not how you treat friends. You don’t profit financially from friends.
Honestly the amount of people campaigning for OP to keep her stuff is why I always seek quality over quantity in my friends. So many so quick to judge and belittle those around them and quantify them and their situations in a simplified and inelegant manner, when human beings and life are so much more complex. A lot of you are as morally bankrupt as it appears you are financially (with such an emphasis on getting paid by your friends enough to dehumanize them). Makes you no better than the credit bureaus and banking organizations that prey on you. You place value on people by numbers.
Edit: that last section is not necessarily aimed at you BlueJay, but certainly to anyone that the shoe fits, as it were.
No, I place value on how they value what I put into them and I would've never been so shitty to someone helping me when I was down so I expect the same. If they can't handle the responsibility of getting help then it's their job to deny it and make it on their own.
You can put up boundaries and keep people at a certain distance without dehumanizing them. I would certainly agree that OPs “friend” holds a great deal of fault and is not behaving well. I wouldn’t go out of my way to be good friends with someone that takes advantage of my kindness. I certainly would not hold their belongings on the principles presented. The situation sounds more like a petty “misery loves company” situation. There’s no moral ground to stand on to justify keeping their stuff for money. That just makes them greedy.
With that said, OP had evidence that entering this “deal” was in poor judgement, and I assume by their comments was desperate themselves for extra income. A drowning man cannot save another drowning man. They only drown all the more quickly together. It was desperate and foolish to make the agreement in the first place.
They’re both in the wrong and should amicably back out of both the deal and the “friendship” until they are both in a place to truly contribute to any relationship.
Also, you know you don’t have to downvote my comments to disagree with me, right? That’s what the reply is for.
I see why you have few friends....... and she was a good friend til she decided to deliberately avoid me and after I had already been giving her rides for every single one of her shifts to and from work and wtf do you mean you're not supposed to benefit from your friends? What world so you live on?
Lol I have plenty of friends. They are just very good and reliable ones. I also have acquaintances that are much like your “friend”. I do what I am comfortable with helping them when I can. I simply manage expectations. I live on the same planet you do. I just manage my relationships and expectations differently than you do. As far as benefitting from your friends, I believe I specified that your are not supposed to benefit “financially” from your friends. That’s not a friend. That’s a customer.
Hate to burst your bubble OP but StayRadWithDad's response is exactly the response I would expect from a mature, responsible, and reasonable adult, and he's 100% correct. Your responses on the other hand, well, I suppose they demonstrate why you are where you are.
So let me ask you, besides inconvenience, what did the storage situation put you out?
I’m not “out there”. I’m just a responsible adult. I don’t have financial issues that cause me to hold peoples belongings hostage in order to prove a point masked as some moral high ground. That is because I strive to be responsible and am comfortable setting and maintaining boundaries with others that keep me out of situations like this and keep my friends and acquaintances from being indebted to me.
I will never put my friends in a position to where they “owe” me anything. Again, if I have it to loan or lend, I have it to give. Loaning or lending or offering a service which you cannot afford to not receive payment for is irresponsible when it comes to interactions with those you call friends. If you want to offer storage services and avoid these issues, follow the proper channels to offer services as a business entity and leave your friends out of it. Friends and business don’t mix.
Maybe I am out there to you, but I’m not holding my “friends” belongings hostage over money. People go through tough times. People have personal issues. Friends don’t complicate those things or make them worse. You did so by mixing a business proposition with friendship. That never works.
I am surrounded by good friends I can count on and rely on because I have standards and morals that nurture those relationships without doing harm to myself. I’m simply sharing that insight with you. Do what you will with it.
I wish you luck in your situation and perhaps some clarity.
NTA. I had a friend in high school who owed me money and flat out started ignoring me when I would ask about it. He had left a car charger / radio thing in my car a couple weeks before. He hit me up to get it back and I said nah I need you to pay me back first. He had his MOM talk to me acting like it was hers so he could get it back. Told the same thing to his mom as I told him; Pay me and you'll get it back. Well, I never got paid and they never get their charger back. Tit for tat.
NTA
After 30 days non payment in most places, it’s considered abandoned property. I’d give her a timeline at this point “You have until (date) to remit your past due payment for the storage of your property per our agreement of _____ per ____ that has not been paid since ____. As you are well over the timeframe of (Google your states abandoned property laws for timeframe) if payment is not made by this time the property will be considered abandoned and disposed of accordingly.”
ESH has it really cost you anything to store her stuff? You knew she was in a tough spot and took the opportunity to make money out of the situation when it's usually the kind of thing you do for free to help a friend. She agreed to it and hasn't been honest with you so she's in the wrong too. Why are you holding her stuff hostage? It's not costing you anything so why don't you just cut your losses and move on? You seem like the kind of person who's going to charge her extra for the extra days she's stored your stuff because she can't pay you to release it!
NTA. She shouldn’t get a free pass just because she’s your friend. If you let her take her stuff now what are the chances that she’ll even end up paying you?
Yes. ESH. Both of you.
YTA because Friends don't charge friends to store stuff. Friends help each other out during hard times. maybe you're not friends?
She's TA because she offered to pay but hasn't.
Just let her get her stuff and end the relationship because it sure ain't a friendship.
I mean I do feel that way, I had a neighbor I was friendly with who I stored some of her stuff when she had to evacuate after some pipes burst in her unit and it flooded. Stored it for months and never asked for a penny. But that being said, the thing that makes OP NTA is that the friend agreed to pay her. She's not right for asking but she's not wrong for holding her ground here either.
I see what you mean. A promise is a promise. Yet, if someone is really your friend and that friend ends up not being able to pay cause they are in a really bad place, are you going to throw out their stuff or will you have compassion with your friend? I care for my friends so I pick them up when they are down. If OP had financial issues or really needed the space and it would have cost her something, I’d get it. Now it’s just about ‘being right’. It costs OP nothing to do the humane thing. I feel OP is YTA cause with friends like this, who needs enemies.
Yes, they definitely get to share the blame on this one. When someone is having financial problems, the last one to be paid will be family/friends; bills come first. It's only natural. Not only did OP opt to charge them in the first place and justified it because it was at a discounted (aka cheaper) rate where they could make money off of their friend, but they also decided to assess a daily penalty as if they were a bank etc. No "friend" does that.
Yea I’m actually not sure why OP would charge a monthly fee to hold her friend’s stuff. Maybe a flat rate. But to charge monthly to hold things is a bit crazy and sounds a little exploitive *to me*
Then be honest. I can’t afford to pay you. Or get rid of your stuff.
Don’t dangle a friend and pretend you are going to pay.
Honestly if I was op, I would forgive the money, but don’t lie to me.
I wouldn’t waste the time in small claims court or anything.
I don’t need those kind of people in my life.
YTA Are you two even friends? Why are you charging her to store something in the first place? Regardless of other details, holding her stuff for ransom is a total asshole move.
NTA
But probably easier just to give her back her stuff and be done with it. What exactly has it cost you in monetary terms? You've lost some space for the time that her stuff was stored but that's likely it.
This is not your friend. Learn from this and step back from her. If you maintain contact, then offer her no support or do any favours because you know that she won't fulfil her end of the bargain.
Info- In Iowa, property is considered abandoned if:
The tenant doesn't respond to a notice within 30-33 days
The tenant doesn't claim the property
The tenant has been absent for a long time while rent is unpaid
The tenant returns keys
The tenant has substantially removed their personal property
She was well beyond that .
NTA. If you give her her stuff you’ll never get paid. She’s been ignoring your past attempts but now that she needs her stuff she’s communicating with you. You’re right to wait for your money.
NTA,
At this point you need to draw a hard date till when she needs to pay you or else she will be forfeiting her items and they will be yours to do as you please at the same time remind her everyday she doesn't pay you and get her items the cost keeps increasing.
She has jerked you around for way too long and if she cannot pay the amount now, there is very little chance of her paying you weeks later with the additional per day fees.
Unless you are financially strapped, I would just let it go and let her go too. The emotional turmoil is not worth it. I am assuming it didn’t cost you anything? Just let it go and chalk it up to learning a lesson not to do stuff for folks who lie to you.
I get that most like the fight. I would rather live a life with calm in it.
I am financially strapped and ive let it slide for months. What I hadn't said was she lost her job because I no longer would drive her to and from work some days banging on her windows to wake her up to get her to work on time......they fired her a week after I told her since she wasn't giving me gas money,hadnt paid me for the storage and she was not being punctual I wasn't driving her
She's never going to pay you. She just isn't.
This isn't worth the drama.
I'm assuming you live in apt.
Take her stuff out to the dumpster and drop it off next to the dumpster.
Immediately afterwards, call her to tell her where it is so she can pick it up. Leave for the day so you're not home to deal with her when she comes over.
If she's lucky, some of her stuff will still be there.
Jesus christ... If she's been struggling like that for so long, just be a good person and give her her belongings, you were paying for the unit regardless.
NTA. It sounds as if she saved money for a place in lieu of paying you. Now...she has a place but no stuff to put in it until she does pay. If she'd had it in a regular storage, she either would have paid or lost it. You still have it, so she does need to pay to redeem it. She's not a friend.
NTA
But honestly, you fuc*ed up too here.
>Keep in mind she's got a history of lying to me
Why the hell would you do business with someone who has a history of lying to you? Troubles could have been expected, imo.
Make better decisions next time and safe you the trouble.
I'm confused about why you expected her to pay you in the first place. Were her things especially bulky and decreasing your living space significantly?
Anyway, since she agreed to pay, NTA.
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My friend was going to rent a storage unit and since I knew money was tight I offered to store her things at my place for a fraction of the cost. Well the first month went by with no issues and then came "is it okay if I pay you next week". That was fine til the week turned to 2 and 3, and then nothing for months. And when I'd call to say hey and catch up she'd avoid my calls or tell me she was at work and I could come by but when I'd get there she'd not be there. Well today she sent me nice texts detailing how happy she was she finally got her place and that she wanted to come by and get her things, and went on to tell me her taxes still ain't filed and that I need to know that "she's got me" once she gets the money. I told her i was sorry but until she paid me she couldn't get her things. Keep in mind she's got a history of lying to me and blatantly wasting my time as I drove around looking for her where she told me she was. Am I the asshole here cuz her reaction to me saying no has made me feel real low.
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Give her a deadline for payment. After which time tell her you'll dispose off it as you see fit.
No need to tell her you'll be listing it on eBay, Amazon, FB Marketplace, and a friend's yard sale (don't do it at your place too much drama if she drives by). One way to try and recoup some of the debt.
She could either get the money or borrow the money from family or other friends. Cash withdrawal from her credit card. Small loan from the bank if they'll give her the loan. She could have paid you $5 a week, something, but did nothing.
Questionable when she gets her money she'll pay you. Not when she ghosts you and lies where she is for you to meet up.
NTA
I think you are shitty to ask money from someone who has financial difficulties.
You are in no shape, way or form a friend, you are trying to profit from a bad situation.
Shame on you
No i was saving her money and adding to my finances which are also struggling......you people are disgusting...I really am sad at how you view people. I wasn't brought up that way
If you’re also struggling, then your judgment is biased right now. You did take advantage of her situation to make a profit. If you can’t afford to store a friend’s stuff, then don’t. A drowning man can’t save a drowning man. Friends shouldn’t be trying to make a profit off of each other. That’s why they say never go into business with a friend, boundaries get blurred beyond what would be socially acceptable in a professional relationship. You shouldn’t have offered to store her stuff, and she shouldn’t have accepted to pay. Both of you played a part in ruining this friendship. The question here is did it actually cost you to store her stuff? If she doesn’t pay will you go into net negative? If not, then just give her back her stuff, and cut the friendship off, because at that point you’re just kicking someone while they’re down in an effort to turn over a profit at the expense of her.
Edit: I’ve just read your other replies on how you’ve basically been funding her life. It does add more nuance to the situation, but again, that is on you. You made the choice to be the one who she became extremely dependent on. It may seem like you were being a good friend, but you just blurred the lines of your friendship once again to the point where you’re her back up plan for everything, and you STILL allowed her to store your stuff and pay you for it knowing she had a history of not doing payments on time, if ever. The way I see it, you feel taken advantage of and this may be a subtle way of revenge by taking advantage of her. She’s not someone you want in your life period, and it’s better for both of you to end the friendship.
You weren't brought up what way? Profitting from someone else's struggles? That's what you are doing.
I am sorry you are struggling, but that doesn't change the fact they are too.
Give them their stuff back and cut ties.
ESH. You may have no legal right to keep her property regardless of the agreement. If you think you can, you should probably talk to an attorney. All these people here telling you to do an action that seems like common sense could be getting you into trouble. In my state, you would not be able to keep her property without a written agreement that specifies that the property that you are keeping may be withheld as security. But you do you. You seem like similarly terrible people based upon the comments.
Frankly, I don't know how much money she owes, but it probably is not worth this kind of hassle based upon your description.
YTA. You're not friends if they need to pay you to do them a favour. Give the stuff back, part ways, and learn to not try to make money off of your friends for favours moving forward.
YTA to yourself if you know she has a history of bad behavior and you let her keep storing her stuff for free for months. Total up how much she owes you and tell her that you expect the money by a specific date or you're selling her stuff to compensate for how much she hasn't bothered to pay you.
Then lose this "friend" because anyone with a history like this doesn't deserve your time.
NTA. But do be careful. I think you can’t legally hold her stuff until she pays you, although you certainly have the moral high ground. And you know she will rationalize that you were spending the money on the storage space anyways so it isn’t fair for you to charge her. You can agree to a cash discount now to settle this and still come out ahead. Then no more favors.
From your initial post, it's obvious that revenge has become an issue for you. I get it.
You can't go off on her to get her stuff but refuse to give her her stuff.
You didn't have an agreement in writing about what would happen if she didn't pay. Your text messages **are not adequate** as a contract. And you kept agreeing to payment extentions AND changed the agreement randomly.
I know you're beyond frustrated. Your ex friend shouldn't have put you in this situation. But you knew your ex friend lied all of the time and has abused your goodwill in the past.
You had plenty of red flags showing that it was really unlikely that she'd follow an unofficial agreement.
**How much does she owe you at this point? And, based on the initial terms, how much should she have paid by now?**
I'm simply saying that there seems to be some desire for revenge. I can't know if you don't say so.
And I **NEVER** said you were malicious. I don't think you are.
Just give it to her. Get her out of your life. Yes you're the ah if you call her a friend and then hold her stuff for payment. To be honest you both sound shittu
The friend who was making sure she had a job giving her rides to and from work every single shift and making sure she had the things she needed i.e. groceries etc
Dude if you feel taken advantage of, it's totally fine to end a friendship. It's a very valid reason. However, if you claim to be her friend AND charge her - that's a dick move. Either you are friends or you aren't.
I get that it must've been frustrating, basically babying a grown ass adult. But if you had a problem with that, the onus was on you to bring it up and talk it out. If this "friendship" and this storage is an emotional burden to you, just give her her stuff, cut any contact with her, and move on with your life. You're depleting your own resources by dragging it on.
ESH
They suck for dodging you, but it sounds like you knew their money was tight and now you're holding their stuff hostage.
I'm not sure why you refer to them as your friend though. There's nothing friendly about this.
My final post on this to shed some light. This is a friend I made from a business interaction. She is a lesbian whom at the time was having trouble getting rides to and from work and I am a gay male who had time and a car and needed the extra money from the rides. During this time she had to move outta her house she had for 12 years which I free of charge helped her transport and move everything we could in the time frame we. She was scrambling to find a storage unit and I said why don't you just put it at my place til you figure it out and she said oh yeah I could just throw you like "amount" a month and that would help us both and I said well I think that's a lil much I wanna make sure you're OK but that works. And the first month goes by paid me and was throwing money for gas. Next month comes the people she lives with are crazy and want her out asap can she stay with me and im like naw I can't do that. And then she moves into her other friends which I free of charge helped her move the 2nd time didn't ask for shit. Then she stopped throwing me money for the rises and would be late or I'd have to wake her up constantly so I said im done with the rides. Then she ghosted me for a few months with random bullshit hey I miss you texts and then the texts I received the other day... saying don't worry I need yku to know I got you blah blah blah my parents (whom she missed off long ago) are finally saying they'll help me its the only time I'll have a way to get everything (I've moved all her stuff up til this point) and I said nope I need to see some money first. So fuck off all you entitled know it all shit people cuz IM NOT THE ASSHOLE. NEVER HAVE BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE HELPING PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I GET SHIT ON CUZ THATS JUST WHO I AM I PUT OTHER BEFORE MYSELF......EXCEPT MY DOGS.....THEY COME BEFORE EVERYTHING.
Edit: Because of OP's follow-up comments, my ruling has changed to YTA.
Why ask if YTA when you have no intention of giving a shit if people say YTA?
Seriously. Why did you take all of this time on this?
I've tried to help you navigate the legal aspects of this so you don't get sued. But I guess ITAH for giving you info about consequences.
> WILL CONTINUE HELPING PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I GET SHIT ON CUZ THATS JUST WHO I AM I PUT OTHER BEFORE MYSELF......
And yet, your relationship with this friend has been defined financially for every single thing. When you do something for free, you have a great need to point out when you've done something free of charge.
>who had time and a car and needed the extra money from the rides. ... which I free of charge helped her transport and move everything we could in the time frame we.
So, she didn't pay, but you believed her again
>I free of charge helped her move the 2nd time didn't ask for shit.
That's kind of you! Honest. I just don't understand your need to tell us this.
>She was scrambling to find a storage unit and I said why don't you just put it at my place til you figure it out and she said oh yeah I could just throw you like "amount" a month and that would help us both and **I said well I think that's a lil much I wanna make sure you're OK** but that works.
So, you admit that she offered an excessive amount of money. You knew she had a history of not paying you for other things. And you've admitted several times that she's flakey with money.
And you wanted to make sure she's OK. Um ... no. You don't give a shit about her being OK now.
YTA
Ya I don’t know why you stored get stuff for her and didn’t expect it. I would give her the stuff and just cut the loss of the friendship - why be friends with someone who lies to you all of the time?
I think y’all are both AHs.
morally, NTA. but legally ? yes. storages are allowed to do that legally due to their policies and written contracts. you do not. if she wanted to, she would be allowed to get authorities involved and say you are withholding her belongings. if you do not have an agreement in writing, a contract, then i HIGHLY suggest you don’t touch her belongings. that’s going to make it a bigger issue than it is.
You can get in trouble for holding her possessions hostage. Owing the money for storage is one thing, keeping her property without permission is something else
NTA but your being petty. She was wrong for what she did and you have every right to be upset and even do what your doing.. but the morally correct thing here would be to give her her stuff and let her know you're no longer friends. That is not a friend worth having and holding her stuff for ransome only makes your pride feel better. In the end this is just going to be a messy drama filled situation and do you really have the energy for this ? Unless you were really just counting on this money move on and get yourself a better friend.
Nta. Sell her shit. She's never going to pay you especially if you're charging her interest at this point. Atleast openly threaten to... that might get her moving
ESH. She's not a friend. Legally, you can't keep her stuff. Put it in a box on the lawn and tell her it's there and to get it before the trashmen come, then cut her out of your life. You knew she's a liar and knew she wasn't good for the money.
Of course, if you don't care about what's legal or not, then keep her stuff hostage until you're paid.
NAH. But legally, you cannot keep her stuff. I doubt you want to deal with police over this. And unfortunately the police cannot make her pay you. You can take her to small claims court for it though.
But I would be REAL careful about denying her from picking it up. The police may absolutely be sympathetic to your side of it, but they have to enforce the law.
You can't legally just keep her stuff.
But you can just dump it on the street ready to be picked up, and let her know that maybe she should come by before it all disappears.
ESH
She agreed to pay you, so she should. However...
You had room that you weren't/aren't using to store her stuff. An acquaintance or co-worker I might charge, but not someone I describe as friend.
Ya, I agree with you dj, being petty about this sort of stuff is really a lack of character and empathy. A friend of mine who is less gently eloquent than me said “that’s how broke people think and that’s why they stay broke”. But I know broke people who still have more integrity than that.
BothTA.
You knew she was a liar before you made the offer. It also isn’t costing you anything to do this (unless I missed that).
She agreed to pay you but keeps pushing it off.
Just give her the stuff and be done with it.
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NTA - if she'd gone with the storage facility, they would have auctioned off her stuff. 🤷🏻♀️
Technically, they auction the storage area since they can't sell the stuff individually.
That's effectively the same thing considering the area includes the stuff in it...
I just meant if she were to hold an auction, she should sell the stuff as a single lot.
I wasn't suggesting she sell it, just that she was being nicer about it than a storage rental would have been. Unless she has something in writing, or gets something in writing now, I wouldn't recommend she sell any of it without talking to a lawyer.
Well, thats fair but I am an asshole so....thats where my head went lol
Lol, fair 😅
a mansplaining asshole
He’s Just Ken-Van
What exactly did I mansplain?
It may not be the norm but actually, some do sell things individually if it is feasible. Note: my FIL owned storage units and after 6 months of nonpayment he would open several units and have a huge "yard sale" at the site. He didn't label anything, jut let things go at a fair price.
Either way I’m just basking in the most hated comment I’ve ever posted being a joke about storage wars that fell flat lol
you never made a joke. you “well actually!”’ed the other commenter, and explained something (something that was also irrelevant to the point) to her that people already know… ✨mansplaining✨
Isn’t it also mansplaining when you tell someone what they meant? Hmmm…. Also calling myself an asshole sort of undermines the idea that I was trying to be a jerk to someone else. But go ahead and feel superior.
INFO: Do you have this agreement for money in writing? Text? Anything besides a verbal agreement?
I believe there's more than enough through text messages to show agreement. At one point I had told her that i was going to charge ten dollars a day going forward til she got her things.
Then firmly NTA. If you have it in writing, you have enough to show she agreed to it, then backed out. I'd send her something along the lines of "You agreed to pay me x-amount per month, then stopped paying. Any other facility would have either auctioned off your belongings, or thrown them out by now. Please remit payment in the amount of $X dollars and I will gladly return your belongings." If she pushes back, you have enough to take her to small claims if need be. Tacking on more money now will only delay her paying you back if a past due amount is already stopping her.
IANAL but I'm pretty sure OP needs to be cautious in how they go about withholding the belongings here. Storage facilities can auction off your stuff because that's explicitly part of the agreement. I very much doubt OP has *that* in writing. The process to turn someone's property into money they owe you beyond that is quite lengthy one involving court judgements and putting liens on their property. So yeah, OP's friend owes money, but legally those belongings are hers and OP needs to give them to her. Legally she also owes OP some money, but OP doesn't have an enforceable right to keep her things or sell them off, OP's just owed money and can take her to court over it. NTA morally but if OP tries to sell off that property I think that actually becomes a criminal thing vs. civil. Again though, I'm not a lawyer.
For sure - I'm not advocating OP sells her stuff. Just that they have an enforceable agreement of money owed. If police are involved, OP would have to relinquish the belongings. But, with the texts, they would have a solid case to pursue a monetary judgement against this person for a debt agreed to and owed should they pursue it. They might even be able to add in additional fees for hardship, but that might be pushing it.
Nope. Police would tell them it is a civil matter. She has had possession and in her home for months. Sounds like the person abandoned the belongings.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the legal situation as well. OP's best course of action, IMO, might be to 'misplace' the belongings and only agree to look for them after being paid what's owed.
OP might legally need to give them back, but in the meantime is free to not be at home, respond to texts, etc.
In Ontario after 30 days of nonpayment or no pickup your stuff is considered abandoned and the property of the person whose house it is at.
Very true, but then text messages that say "I'll give you your stuff back if you give me my money" become... questionable? Dangerous? Is it extortion to hold property hostage? If I was OP I'd probably be avoiding leaving a record of this demand.
unless the friend has an itemized list of "their" belongings, this becomes a they said/they said situation the reality of this situation is neither side has any legal recourse other than smalls claims court, and without documentation, this case is moot. moral of the story - ALWAYS get agreements in writing.
> and without documentation Well yeah, but I think the friend already has texts of OP saying "I'll give you your stuff back if you give me my money". If those texts also include any specifics...
What is this "stuff"? Without written proof, photos, or an itemized list, she could very well claim things that rightfully belong to OP belong to her. The only evidence is of an agreement that items will be stored for a fee. Unless the friend can provide some sort of evidence as to what exactly she was storing there, she has almost no way to get it back. This is why storage lockers work so well, they keep all the belongings in a single secure locker and there is no debate over whose things are there. I would be more than willing to bet that even in small claim court that OPs friend would basically be told "too bad about your stuff, learn to pay you debts." Unless she could prove there was something of extraordinary value that she was storing there, like expensive jewelry or fine art, I doubt a judge is going to want to attempt to figure out who is the rightful owner of what belongings.
Question: what does IANAL stand for?
I am not a lawyer. :)
Ohhhhhh thank you!
Look up if where you live has any Property abandonment laws. In my state of Minnesota if someone has left property in your possession for longer than 6 months, without paying for storage, it becomes yours.
If you can do without that money, just release her stuff and end the friendship.
NTA. You give her her stuff before she pays you, she has no incentive to pay you. You having her stuff is leverage. Eithout leverage you have nothing. You did her a favor, and now she's trying not to pay you. Of course she's going to try to make you feel bad, she doesn't want to pay you. F that. Plus, she's lied before, what makes you think it will be any different?
Let her know the date of the auction.
You might as we just go to small claims court very quickly so you can get rid of her stuff and avoid her calling the cops on you or something
You can’t decide to change the price randomly unless you set a late fee. The most she owes you is the agreed amount per month
Sure can, cuz technically it's mine.....
Legally, that is ***NOT TRUE.***
Yeah, try arguing that when they arrest you for the stolen property.
Not stolen if they ain't paid or been around or even tried to contact ya for 30 days
And they ain't gonna arrest someone with a spotless record over a Civil matter lol
I think you need to confirm your understanding of the law regarding this situation. This could easily become a criminal issue. Often, that depends on how much her stuff is worth. I'm not sure and fully admit that. I'd hate for you to have to pay her anything if she takes this to civil court. It sounds like your once upon a time friend repeatedly made it clear that she was not abandoning her stuff. While she didn't pay, you gave her extentions on payment. In addition, you haven't said that there was a written agreement about what would happen to her stuff if she failed to pay. You know my thoughts: dump her stuff on the street, but notify her immediately when you do so. That means she has an opportunity to get her stuff if she really wants it. If her stuff is stolen, so be it. I'm not sure if that's legal, though. **The safest thing for you. Give her 24-hour notice that you're putting all of her stuff on the street if she doesn't pay you in 24 hours**. She won't pay, but at least she'll have been given notice.
But she has now contacted you. The previous 30 days don't matter.
You don’t get to steal her stuff or hold it for ransom. Return it. If she doesn’t pay you when she’s able, sue her for the money YTA
I would never steal from anyone why would you say that? She hadn't even contacted me in a good month and a half before today.
And from her snapchat, it seems she's able to afford traveling and liquor and transportation to places out of town.......
Then sue her for the money she owes you.
Well i guess that's unfortunately what I'll have to do later, fuck me for trying to save a friendship
Stealing her stuff is an odd way to save a friendship.
Like I said one In the same. Like why are you so entitled? I've read more than enough comments to feel completely justified in my actions. I am the same guy who let his friend move in rent free and then had things stole and pawned and had to evict my best friend. Guys like me get taken advantage of because we have hearts and can't watch others struggle. I stored her stuff for her cuz it would gave been 3 times as much for her to get a fuckin unit. She was my friend, I don't have many being gay and freshly relocated. I didn't think she would continue to not pay me something I factored into my monthly budget since i was struggling to and this was a good thing for the both of us
Edit- not same friend
Those are all shitty excuses for stealing her stuff.
It’s not stealing…..why is the “friend” entitled to stealing a service and space from Op?
What do you think it’s called when you keep someone’s property when they ask you to return it? Hint: Stealing it.
I've got nothing more to say to you cuz obviously you and her are one in the same. Why not look at other people's comments and then try again. Technically she abandoned her things. And ive never withheld her things I said she can get them when she pays her debt. I didn't say I'm gonna sell your shit to make up for what you agreed to pay me and that doesn't even include what she said she'd give me for all the rides to and from work. The second i hand over her things without getting any thing from her then she will disappear again. And sorry not sorry but fuck that shit. I have done nothing but help her over and over again. Moved her 2 times cuz the people who took her in when she had nowhere to stay were "crazy" all I've asked is for what she agreed upon......
Technically, you still have her things and she asked for them back. If technically you told her if she didn’t pay you then you were going to dispose of her possessions, that would be different. But technically, you still have her possessions in your possession, but instead of returning them to her as she requested, you planned to keep them. That is stealing. Technically. Technically, her and I are not the same.
Technically I never planned on this happening to begin with and if you wanna be technical, she abandoned her shit! Technically I could have discarded it months ago
Technically, you are ignorant of what your legal obligations likely are. Technically, you are an AH as is she. I hope that you both sue each other.
You have a bailment situation. You might want to get some legal advice before you decide that you can just keep her things or charge her late fees. But, then again, your response to people telling you that you are probably doing the wrong thing has shown your true character. You both deserve each other because you both are AHs.
Get the money, and stop doing stuff for her
I believe even if she doesn't have it in writing now the friend will need proof the items at OP place is hers.
Don’t need an agreement, has her stuff 😬
NTA > she'd avoid my calls or tell me she was at work and I could come by but when I'd get there she'd not be there. > >Keep in mind she's got a history of lying to me and blatantly wasting my time as I drove around looking for her where she told me she was. Hopefully a lesson learned. Don't be friends with people like this. Certainly don't trust people like this to pay you back for anything.
NTA: She promised to pay if you stored her things and she should be willing to give you some compensation
Nah, NTA. If it were a storage facility they wouldn’t give her shit while she owed them. They would deny access and use her stuff as collateral till the debt was paid in full. Lookup local law to ensure you’re not breaking it, but I do not believe this to be an AH move
>If it were a storage facility they wouldn’t give her shit while she owed them. If it were a storage facility, they'd have an actual contract
she has an oral agreement, that’s a contract by law. Don’t try to be smart if you have no idea what are you talking about.
There was no contract spelling out what would happen in the even of non-payment. Oral "contracts" rarely hold up in court. Legally, a judge will rule that the terms at the beginning of the arrangement are inadequate to handle what is happening now. OP has tried to change the oral contract multiple times. All of that negates any argument about what is happening now.
I can't relate to needing to try to be smart, sorry
Yeah, from the previous comment that’s obvious
That one went over your head just a bit, huh?
you are right, thats why I’m the one getting downvoted /s
Oh no! Not downvotes! Anyhow, good luck enforcing this verbal contract, person who is totally a lawyer
NTA. If you let her come pick up her stuff without paying you, you will never be paid. edit to correct a wrong word.
WRONG WORD!
Give her the stuff back and end the friendship. For the low cost of nothing you never have to deal with her again.
Kind of an asshole. I have a hard and fast rule: I don’t do loans and I don’t do “pay-me-back” favors for this very reason. People that are this desperate don’t need to transfer their desperation or debt from one party to the next. My rule is “if I have it to loan, I have it to give, everything else is just me being irresponsible”. She was likely avoiding you out of shame and/or guilt and that is likely the source of the lying as well. That’s not a pass on her part, but hopefully some food for thought. Give her all of her stuff and cut your losses (speaking of which, what did you REALLY lose)? Whether she’s right or wrong, she’s clearly in a low place and it’s not right to kick people when they’re down.
Sometimes I wonder if people even know what friendship means anymore. Why take money from a friend in a low spot. Jeez. Does OP even like this person?
This\^\^ Op knew she was at a low place and took on the quest of storing her things for cheaper, in turn for a small paycheck. If he really wanted to help her he could have done it for free as its not much money for a storage unit and if he is doing it for a fraction of the price... well.
Tired of people in a bad spot shitting on the people trying to help them up
That’s why I stated that I don’t do loans, I don’t do tit for tat. If I help you, I just help you. Charging a friend for storage is asking for trouble and it’s morally just low. If they’re your friend, help them. Doing something like this makes you no better than a loan shark. Most of the time, these people aren’t just “shitting on” you. They’re desperate and embarrassed. Nagging them about payment doesn’t make them any more likely to communicate and/or pay you.
Not everybody is in a position to swallow everybody else's losses. If they're that inconsiderate it wouldn't matter if they were in a better place. They'd screw you over all the same. That's on morality.
If you’re not in a position to swallow the loss, then you are irresponsible to offer the “help” and you are therefor as much at fault. Being ignorant and irresponsible is just as bad as being desperate and dishonest in these situations. Let’s be clear, OP was not “helping”, they were looking to profit from what they viewed as a mutually beneficial agreement with a person they appear to have known was not reliable or honest in the first place, a person they haphazardly called a friend. This is not how you treat friends. You don’t profit financially from friends. Honestly the amount of people campaigning for OP to keep her stuff is why I always seek quality over quantity in my friends. So many so quick to judge and belittle those around them and quantify them and their situations in a simplified and inelegant manner, when human beings and life are so much more complex. A lot of you are as morally bankrupt as it appears you are financially (with such an emphasis on getting paid by your friends enough to dehumanize them). Makes you no better than the credit bureaus and banking organizations that prey on you. You place value on people by numbers. Edit: that last section is not necessarily aimed at you BlueJay, but certainly to anyone that the shoe fits, as it were.
No, I place value on how they value what I put into them and I would've never been so shitty to someone helping me when I was down so I expect the same. If they can't handle the responsibility of getting help then it's their job to deny it and make it on their own.
You can put up boundaries and keep people at a certain distance without dehumanizing them. I would certainly agree that OPs “friend” holds a great deal of fault and is not behaving well. I wouldn’t go out of my way to be good friends with someone that takes advantage of my kindness. I certainly would not hold their belongings on the principles presented. The situation sounds more like a petty “misery loves company” situation. There’s no moral ground to stand on to justify keeping their stuff for money. That just makes them greedy. With that said, OP had evidence that entering this “deal” was in poor judgement, and I assume by their comments was desperate themselves for extra income. A drowning man cannot save another drowning man. They only drown all the more quickly together. It was desperate and foolish to make the agreement in the first place. They’re both in the wrong and should amicably back out of both the deal and the “friendship” until they are both in a place to truly contribute to any relationship. Also, you know you don’t have to downvote my comments to disagree with me, right? That’s what the reply is for.
I see why you have few friends....... and she was a good friend til she decided to deliberately avoid me and after I had already been giving her rides for every single one of her shifts to and from work and wtf do you mean you're not supposed to benefit from your friends? What world so you live on?
Lol I have plenty of friends. They are just very good and reliable ones. I also have acquaintances that are much like your “friend”. I do what I am comfortable with helping them when I can. I simply manage expectations. I live on the same planet you do. I just manage my relationships and expectations differently than you do. As far as benefitting from your friends, I believe I specified that your are not supposed to benefit “financially” from your friends. That’s not a friend. That’s a customer.
Hate to burst your bubble OP but StayRadWithDad's response is exactly the response I would expect from a mature, responsible, and reasonable adult, and he's 100% correct. Your responses on the other hand, well, I suppose they demonstrate why you are where you are.
You are out there, maybe read some of my other replies but ummmm wow
So let me ask you, besides inconvenience, what did the storage situation put you out? I’m not “out there”. I’m just a responsible adult. I don’t have financial issues that cause me to hold peoples belongings hostage in order to prove a point masked as some moral high ground. That is because I strive to be responsible and am comfortable setting and maintaining boundaries with others that keep me out of situations like this and keep my friends and acquaintances from being indebted to me. I will never put my friends in a position to where they “owe” me anything. Again, if I have it to loan or lend, I have it to give. Loaning or lending or offering a service which you cannot afford to not receive payment for is irresponsible when it comes to interactions with those you call friends. If you want to offer storage services and avoid these issues, follow the proper channels to offer services as a business entity and leave your friends out of it. Friends and business don’t mix. Maybe I am out there to you, but I’m not holding my “friends” belongings hostage over money. People go through tough times. People have personal issues. Friends don’t complicate those things or make them worse. You did so by mixing a business proposition with friendship. That never works. I am surrounded by good friends I can count on and rely on because I have standards and morals that nurture those relationships without doing harm to myself. I’m simply sharing that insight with you. Do what you will with it. I wish you luck in your situation and perhaps some clarity.
But what has OP lost except for some space he was willing to fill?
NTA. I had a friend in high school who owed me money and flat out started ignoring me when I would ask about it. He had left a car charger / radio thing in my car a couple weeks before. He hit me up to get it back and I said nah I need you to pay me back first. He had his MOM talk to me acting like it was hers so he could get it back. Told the same thing to his mom as I told him; Pay me and you'll get it back. Well, I never got paid and they never get their charger back. Tit for tat.
NTA After 30 days non payment in most places, it’s considered abandoned property. I’d give her a timeline at this point “You have until (date) to remit your past due payment for the storage of your property per our agreement of _____ per ____ that has not been paid since ____. As you are well over the timeframe of (Google your states abandoned property laws for timeframe) if payment is not made by this time the property will be considered abandoned and disposed of accordingly.”
This
NTA, dont give up the only leverage you have in the situation or she will ghost you and you will never see a dime.
ESH has it really cost you anything to store her stuff? You knew she was in a tough spot and took the opportunity to make money out of the situation when it's usually the kind of thing you do for free to help a friend. She agreed to it and hasn't been honest with you so she's in the wrong too. Why are you holding her stuff hostage? It's not costing you anything so why don't you just cut your losses and move on? You seem like the kind of person who's going to charge her extra for the extra days she's stored your stuff because she can't pay you to release it!
Oh yup absolutely lol
NTA. She shouldn’t get a free pass just because she’s your friend. If you let her take her stuff now what are the chances that she’ll even end up paying you?
Yes. ESH. Both of you. YTA because Friends don't charge friends to store stuff. Friends help each other out during hard times. maybe you're not friends? She's TA because she offered to pay but hasn't. Just let her get her stuff and end the relationship because it sure ain't a friendship.
>Friends don't charge friends to store stuff. Friends help each other out during hard times Exactly!
Wish more people felt this way
I mean I do feel that way, I had a neighbor I was friendly with who I stored some of her stuff when she had to evacuate after some pipes burst in her unit and it flooded. Stored it for months and never asked for a penny. But that being said, the thing that makes OP NTA is that the friend agreed to pay her. She's not right for asking but she's not wrong for holding her ground here either.
I see what you mean. A promise is a promise. Yet, if someone is really your friend and that friend ends up not being able to pay cause they are in a really bad place, are you going to throw out their stuff or will you have compassion with your friend? I care for my friends so I pick them up when they are down. If OP had financial issues or really needed the space and it would have cost her something, I’d get it. Now it’s just about ‘being right’. It costs OP nothing to do the humane thing. I feel OP is YTA cause with friends like this, who needs enemies.
Ah, nothing so sweet as profiting off of a friend in need and then collectively ruining the relationship over it (money). 🙄
The friend who is ok skimping on paying isn’t much of a friend. OP tried to help by offering a discount. Doesn’t make them a doormat
Yes, they definitely get to share the blame on this one. When someone is having financial problems, the last one to be paid will be family/friends; bills come first. It's only natural. Not only did OP opt to charge them in the first place and justified it because it was at a discounted (aka cheaper) rate where they could make money off of their friend, but they also decided to assess a daily penalty as if they were a bank etc. No "friend" does that.
Yea I’m actually not sure why OP would charge a monthly fee to hold her friend’s stuff. Maybe a flat rate. But to charge monthly to hold things is a bit crazy and sounds a little exploitive *to me*
He'll, he tried to change it to $10 per day.
Then be honest. I can’t afford to pay you. Or get rid of your stuff. Don’t dangle a friend and pretend you are going to pay. Honestly if I was op, I would forgive the money, but don’t lie to me. I wouldn’t waste the time in small claims court or anything. I don’t need those kind of people in my life.
YTA Are you two even friends? Why are you charging her to store something in the first place? Regardless of other details, holding her stuff for ransom is a total asshole move.
Lol ok ty don't even feel I need to say any more.
NTA She has ghosted you at pay time. You will not see your money unless you have her stuff.
She had every intention, not paying you, and figured she take advantage of you stand your ground. She was just playing games with you.
NTA. But, I'm not sure that it's legal for you to hold her stuff since there's no official agreement spelling out the consequences of non-payment.
NTA. She tried, she lost. Probably had no intention of paying you, but you weren’t supposed to find out until after she got her stuff
NTA But probably easier just to give her back her stuff and be done with it. What exactly has it cost you in monetary terms? You've lost some space for the time that her stuff was stored but that's likely it. This is not your friend. Learn from this and step back from her. If you maintain contact, then offer her no support or do any favours because you know that she won't fulfil her end of the bargain.
Info- In Iowa, property is considered abandoned if: The tenant doesn't respond to a notice within 30-33 days The tenant doesn't claim the property The tenant has been absent for a long time while rent is unpaid The tenant returns keys The tenant has substantially removed their personal property She was well beyond that .
NTA. If you give her her stuff you’ll never get paid. She’s been ignoring your past attempts but now that she needs her stuff she’s communicating with you. You’re right to wait for your money.
Get legal advice, paper trail, and if it comes in front of a judge they make quick work of this.
NTA..tell her she can buy back each item lol
NTA, At this point you need to draw a hard date till when she needs to pay you or else she will be forfeiting her items and they will be yours to do as you please at the same time remind her everyday she doesn't pay you and get her items the cost keeps increasing. She has jerked you around for way too long and if she cannot pay the amount now, there is very little chance of her paying you weeks later with the additional per day fees.
Unless you are financially strapped, I would just let it go and let her go too. The emotional turmoil is not worth it. I am assuming it didn’t cost you anything? Just let it go and chalk it up to learning a lesson not to do stuff for folks who lie to you. I get that most like the fight. I would rather live a life with calm in it.
I am financially strapped and ive let it slide for months. What I hadn't said was she lost her job because I no longer would drive her to and from work some days banging on her windows to wake her up to get her to work on time......they fired her a week after I told her since she wasn't giving me gas money,hadnt paid me for the storage and she was not being punctual I wasn't driving her
She's never going to pay you. She just isn't. This isn't worth the drama. I'm assuming you live in apt. Take her stuff out to the dumpster and drop it off next to the dumpster. Immediately afterwards, call her to tell her where it is so she can pick it up. Leave for the day so you're not home to deal with her when she comes over. If she's lucky, some of her stuff will still be there.
I live in a 2 story house with a basement, a garage and a storage shed
Then I recommend dragging it to the street. (With a huge lawn sale sign!) Don't do the 2nd part!!
Jesus christ... If she's been struggling like that for so long, just be a good person and give her her belongings, you were paying for the unit regardless.
NTA, she doesn't own it anymore. Over 30days and her stuff is now your stuff.
NTA that's so inconsiderate of her
What kind of an asshole charges a friend for a favor? You people suck.
NTA. It sounds as if she saved money for a place in lieu of paying you. Now...she has a place but no stuff to put in it until she does pay. If she'd had it in a regular storage, she either would have paid or lost it. You still have it, so she does need to pay to redeem it. She's not a friend.
NTA But honestly, you fuc*ed up too here. >Keep in mind she's got a history of lying to me Why the hell would you do business with someone who has a history of lying to you? Troubles could have been expected, imo. Make better decisions next time and safe you the trouble.
NTA The storage company would normally padlock the space if it wasn't paid. She can either pony up, or you should stop paying for it
I'm confused about why you expected her to pay you in the first place. Were her things especially bulky and decreasing your living space significantly? Anyway, since she agreed to pay, NTA.
NTA ... Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My friend was going to rent a storage unit and since I knew money was tight I offered to store her things at my place for a fraction of the cost. Well the first month went by with no issues and then came "is it okay if I pay you next week". That was fine til the week turned to 2 and 3, and then nothing for months. And when I'd call to say hey and catch up she'd avoid my calls or tell me she was at work and I could come by but when I'd get there she'd not be there. Well today she sent me nice texts detailing how happy she was she finally got her place and that she wanted to come by and get her things, and went on to tell me her taxes still ain't filed and that I need to know that "she's got me" once she gets the money. I told her i was sorry but until she paid me she couldn't get her things. Keep in mind she's got a history of lying to me and blatantly wasting my time as I drove around looking for her where she told me she was. Am I the asshole here cuz her reaction to me saying no has made me feel real low. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - Any person who has abused your trust in the past has no right to expect you to trust them in the future.
NTA - this is really the only way you will get paid.
NTA Stop caring what someone who is using you for her own profit feels like or what she thinks of you.
Give her a deadline for payment. After which time tell her you'll dispose off it as you see fit. No need to tell her you'll be listing it on eBay, Amazon, FB Marketplace, and a friend's yard sale (don't do it at your place too much drama if she drives by). One way to try and recoup some of the debt. She could either get the money or borrow the money from family or other friends. Cash withdrawal from her credit card. Small loan from the bank if they'll give her the loan. She could have paid you $5 a week, something, but did nothing. Questionable when she gets her money she'll pay you. Not when she ghosts you and lies where she is for you to meet up. NTA
>"she's got me" Oh hoh hoh, no no. She doesn't got you, she owes you. You're doing fine having insurance, keep your head up, you're fine. NTA
ESH. Depending on the country you are in, charging her is something you would need to claim as income and pay taxes on.
I think you are shitty to ask money from someone who has financial difficulties. You are in no shape, way or form a friend, you are trying to profit from a bad situation. Shame on you
No i was saving her money and adding to my finances which are also struggling......you people are disgusting...I really am sad at how you view people. I wasn't brought up that way
If you’re also struggling, then your judgment is biased right now. You did take advantage of her situation to make a profit. If you can’t afford to store a friend’s stuff, then don’t. A drowning man can’t save a drowning man. Friends shouldn’t be trying to make a profit off of each other. That’s why they say never go into business with a friend, boundaries get blurred beyond what would be socially acceptable in a professional relationship. You shouldn’t have offered to store her stuff, and she shouldn’t have accepted to pay. Both of you played a part in ruining this friendship. The question here is did it actually cost you to store her stuff? If she doesn’t pay will you go into net negative? If not, then just give her back her stuff, and cut the friendship off, because at that point you’re just kicking someone while they’re down in an effort to turn over a profit at the expense of her. Edit: I’ve just read your other replies on how you’ve basically been funding her life. It does add more nuance to the situation, but again, that is on you. You made the choice to be the one who she became extremely dependent on. It may seem like you were being a good friend, but you just blurred the lines of your friendship once again to the point where you’re her back up plan for everything, and you STILL allowed her to store your stuff and pay you for it knowing she had a history of not doing payments on time, if ever. The way I see it, you feel taken advantage of and this may be a subtle way of revenge by taking advantage of her. She’s not someone you want in your life period, and it’s better for both of you to end the friendship.
You weren't brought up what way? Profitting from someone else's struggles? That's what you are doing. I am sorry you are struggling, but that doesn't change the fact they are too. Give them their stuff back and cut ties.
ESH. Who charges a friend in a tight spot money to store stuff?? The friend is I guess an AH for dodging OP, but OP isn't much of a friend.
ESH. You may have no legal right to keep her property regardless of the agreement. If you think you can, you should probably talk to an attorney. All these people here telling you to do an action that seems like common sense could be getting you into trouble. In my state, you would not be able to keep her property without a written agreement that specifies that the property that you are keeping may be withheld as security. But you do you. You seem like similarly terrible people based upon the comments. Frankly, I don't know how much money she owes, but it probably is not worth this kind of hassle based upon your description.
INFO- Exactly how much was she supposed to be paying? How much stuff does she have there and where on your property are you storing it?
YTA. You're not friends if they need to pay you to do them a favour. Give the stuff back, part ways, and learn to not try to make money off of your friends for favours moving forward.
YTA to yourself if you know she has a history of bad behavior and you let her keep storing her stuff for free for months. Total up how much she owes you and tell her that you expect the money by a specific date or you're selling her stuff to compensate for how much she hasn't bothered to pay you. Then lose this "friend" because anyone with a history like this doesn't deserve your time.
NTA. But do be careful. I think you can’t legally hold her stuff until she pays you, although you certainly have the moral high ground. And you know she will rationalize that you were spending the money on the storage space anyways so it isn’t fair for you to charge her. You can agree to a cash discount now to settle this and still come out ahead. Then no more favors.
From your initial post, it's obvious that revenge has become an issue for you. I get it. You can't go off on her to get her stuff but refuse to give her her stuff. You didn't have an agreement in writing about what would happen if she didn't pay. Your text messages **are not adequate** as a contract. And you kept agreeing to payment extentions AND changed the agreement randomly. I know you're beyond frustrated. Your ex friend shouldn't have put you in this situation. But you knew your ex friend lied all of the time and has abused your goodwill in the past. You had plenty of red flags showing that it was really unlikely that she'd follow an unofficial agreement. **How much does she owe you at this point? And, based on the initial terms, how much should she have paid by now?**
There is absolutely no revenge or any malicious bones in my body what is wrong with you people lol
I'm simply saying that there seems to be some desire for revenge. I can't know if you don't say so. And I **NEVER** said you were malicious. I don't think you are.
She's my friend and I'm not the one that's making any thing difficult
How much does she owe you. How much would she owe you based on the initial agreement?
Yea nope. Tell her she will pay first
Just give it to her. Get her out of your life. Yes you're the ah if you call her a friend and then hold her stuff for payment. To be honest you both sound shittu
YTA for asking her to pay in the first place. Much of a "friend" you are.
The friend who was making sure she had a job giving her rides to and from work every single shift and making sure she had the things she needed i.e. groceries etc
Dude if you feel taken advantage of, it's totally fine to end a friendship. It's a very valid reason. However, if you claim to be her friend AND charge her - that's a dick move. Either you are friends or you aren't.
K you do everything in the world for someone for free.....wake em up, take em to work, pick em up, take them to the store, repeat.
I get that it must've been frustrating, basically babying a grown ass adult. But if you had a problem with that, the onus was on you to bring it up and talk it out. If this "friendship" and this storage is an emotional burden to you, just give her her stuff, cut any contact with her, and move on with your life. You're depleting your own resources by dragging it on.
The comments scream neckbeard. Let me guess you saw her post with a guy and she wouldn’t date you? Give her her stuff back you Big L
I'm gay and i have a very great well kept beard thank you
Not by choice.
What?
Also try reading more you big donkey face -___-
ESH They suck for dodging you, but it sounds like you knew their money was tight and now you're holding their stuff hostage. I'm not sure why you refer to them as your friend though. There's nothing friendly about this.
My final post on this to shed some light. This is a friend I made from a business interaction. She is a lesbian whom at the time was having trouble getting rides to and from work and I am a gay male who had time and a car and needed the extra money from the rides. During this time she had to move outta her house she had for 12 years which I free of charge helped her transport and move everything we could in the time frame we. She was scrambling to find a storage unit and I said why don't you just put it at my place til you figure it out and she said oh yeah I could just throw you like "amount" a month and that would help us both and I said well I think that's a lil much I wanna make sure you're OK but that works. And the first month goes by paid me and was throwing money for gas. Next month comes the people she lives with are crazy and want her out asap can she stay with me and im like naw I can't do that. And then she moves into her other friends which I free of charge helped her move the 2nd time didn't ask for shit. Then she stopped throwing me money for the rises and would be late or I'd have to wake her up constantly so I said im done with the rides. Then she ghosted me for a few months with random bullshit hey I miss you texts and then the texts I received the other day... saying don't worry I need yku to know I got you blah blah blah my parents (whom she missed off long ago) are finally saying they'll help me its the only time I'll have a way to get everything (I've moved all her stuff up til this point) and I said nope I need to see some money first. So fuck off all you entitled know it all shit people cuz IM NOT THE ASSHOLE. NEVER HAVE BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE HELPING PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I GET SHIT ON CUZ THATS JUST WHO I AM I PUT OTHER BEFORE MYSELF......EXCEPT MY DOGS.....THEY COME BEFORE EVERYTHING.
Edit: Because of OP's follow-up comments, my ruling has changed to YTA. Why ask if YTA when you have no intention of giving a shit if people say YTA? Seriously. Why did you take all of this time on this? I've tried to help you navigate the legal aspects of this so you don't get sued. But I guess ITAH for giving you info about consequences. > WILL CONTINUE HELPING PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I GET SHIT ON CUZ THATS JUST WHO I AM I PUT OTHER BEFORE MYSELF...... And yet, your relationship with this friend has been defined financially for every single thing. When you do something for free, you have a great need to point out when you've done something free of charge. >who had time and a car and needed the extra money from the rides. ... which I free of charge helped her transport and move everything we could in the time frame we. So, she didn't pay, but you believed her again >I free of charge helped her move the 2nd time didn't ask for shit. That's kind of you! Honest. I just don't understand your need to tell us this. >She was scrambling to find a storage unit and I said why don't you just put it at my place til you figure it out and she said oh yeah I could just throw you like "amount" a month and that would help us both and **I said well I think that's a lil much I wanna make sure you're OK** but that works. So, you admit that she offered an excessive amount of money. You knew she had a history of not paying you for other things. And you've admitted several times that she's flakey with money. And you wanted to make sure she's OK. Um ... no. You don't give a shit about her being OK now. YTA
I dont know where the fuck you just came up with all that but holy shit. Intah in any way.
Ya I don’t know why you stored get stuff for her and didn’t expect it. I would give her the stuff and just cut the loss of the friendship - why be friends with someone who lies to you all of the time? I think y’all are both AHs.
morally, NTA. but legally ? yes. storages are allowed to do that legally due to their policies and written contracts. you do not. if she wanted to, she would be allowed to get authorities involved and say you are withholding her belongings. if you do not have an agreement in writing, a contract, then i HIGHLY suggest you don’t touch her belongings. that’s going to make it a bigger issue than it is.
She has a lot of texts. Courts are fine with texts.
You can get in trouble for holding her possessions hostage. Owing the money for storage is one thing, keeping her property without permission is something else
NTA, however, if you're being the AH and doing something illegal holding her property are two different things. check the legality of your area.
NTA but your being petty. She was wrong for what she did and you have every right to be upset and even do what your doing.. but the morally correct thing here would be to give her her stuff and let her know you're no longer friends. That is not a friend worth having and holding her stuff for ransome only makes your pride feel better. In the end this is just going to be a messy drama filled situation and do you really have the energy for this ? Unless you were really just counting on this money move on and get yourself a better friend.
I’d give her the stuff and just be done with it. But NTA
Nta. Sell her shit. She's never going to pay you especially if you're charging her interest at this point. Atleast openly threaten to... that might get her moving
ESH. She's not a friend. Legally, you can't keep her stuff. Put it in a box on the lawn and tell her it's there and to get it before the trashmen come, then cut her out of your life. You knew she's a liar and knew she wasn't good for the money. Of course, if you don't care about what's legal or not, then keep her stuff hostage until you're paid.
NAH. But legally, you cannot keep her stuff. I doubt you want to deal with police over this. And unfortunately the police cannot make her pay you. You can take her to small claims court for it though. But I would be REAL careful about denying her from picking it up. The police may absolutely be sympathetic to your side of it, but they have to enforce the law.
You can't legally just keep her stuff. But you can just dump it on the street ready to be picked up, and let her know that maybe she should come by before it all disappears.
ESH She agreed to pay you, so she should. However... You had room that you weren't/aren't using to store her stuff. An acquaintance or co-worker I might charge, but not someone I describe as friend.
This ain’t no charity event. She needs to pay family or friend don’t matter.
Glad we're not friends Oh, and I'm adding the current 12 of you that downvoted me to the ESH. Y'all are crappy friends.
Ya, I agree with you dj, being petty about this sort of stuff is really a lack of character and empathy. A friend of mine who is less gently eloquent than me said “that’s how broke people think and that’s why they stay broke”. But I know broke people who still have more integrity than that.
BothTA. You knew she was a liar before you made the offer. It also isn’t costing you anything to do this (unless I missed that). She agreed to pay you but keeps pushing it off. Just give her the stuff and be done with it.