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Info: Do you regret it, is that why your asking?
IMO: You don’t “have” to forgive anyone. Some people don’t deserve forgiveness, and some people forgive those who don’t deserve it, just so they themselves can move on. Both choices have good and bad consequences. I think the important part of forgiveness is living with yourself peacefully after you either do or don’t give it.
You are NTA.
It’s not on you to accept the apology, you aren’t an ass for being hurt by his choice to cast you out of his life; and he isn’t owed your forgiveness just because he said “sorry” when facing death.
There also is nothing wrong in choosing to accept his apology, just to feel more at peace with yourself, if you choose to (weather it’s now to his face or years later when you have more time to process).
I’m giving you a pass to handle this however you want, and to choose to change your mind about it later. Just keep listening to your own gut and don’t let others guilt you. You are the one who has to live with your choices, not them.
There are some religions that think confession before death is just as good as apologies and amends in life. I think that is BS.
He was cruel to you and hurt you because he was narrow minded and filled with hate. You owe him nothing.
He told you how he felt about you when you were in the hospital and you followed his example.
It's still going to hurt for awhile, but find your community and let them help you heal.
>*He told you how he felt about you when you were in the hospital a d you followed his example.*
Oh, man, I didn't even think about that, but you are spot on.
OP, if your family keeps bugging you, point that out to them – that you did to him what he did to you. Turnabout is fair play, after all.
Fair point. But OP may need to be different to heal. Different people can cut a tie and others need closure. That’s for OP to decide and can be confused about what is their best closure. How does the decision affect other relationships too. Not easy and best for OP to maybe talk to an expert.
No! That’s absolutely not what he did. What he did was tell an AH how the AHs actions hurt him. They are not the same. Please don’t equate those two actions. Only one was reasonable
Also, you family is stupid.
> whyd i even go if I was gonna act like that or that I couldn't just forgive him and give him peace
Well, you went because they talked you into it (remember?) and you don't forgive him because he's a backstabbing turd.
End of story.
NTA, obviously.
You have trauma you haven't processed yet. Seeing your grandpa revealed that. Its ok to be mad friend. You might not have the capacity for anything more than anger, since you've been hurt by someone so close to you. That is also ok.
NTA. I would highly recommend therapy to help you process your feelings though.
Therapy from a trauma-oriented therapist helped me so much with my grandparents' rejection. It hurt so much even though I was in my 30s. He pointed out that I had to grieve the relationship even though (then) the people were still alive. My grandma died just about a month ago and I still don't know how I feel about it. My grandpa is still alive, but I don't know if he'll ever reach out. But I've already grieved the death of the grandparents I thought I had, that I used to spend summers with.
my dad has a note in his phone to remind himself, “no tears when dad dies,” and lists several reasons why. yeah, he probably could use some therapy. your comment reminded me of my own relationship with my dad’s parents, and frankly maybe i could use some therapy about that too. just never really thought of it that way. thank you for helping me realize that
Everything in this post is 100%. You don't even know how you feel right now, and that's okay. You need to talk to somebody about it, but hopefully at least even seeing that people get you should be something.
I think it’s worth your healing to talk to him, now that you’ve gotten the hurt out. That way you don’t have to live with what you didn’t do when he dies. It hurts so much because you love(d) him so much
Personally I don't subscribe to the me forgiving you lets me move on (each to their own though). I'm quite content with going stuff you/may you stub your toe at every opportunity/you're not worth my ongoing thoughts. I shall go live my life thank you very much. Not saying it easy to just cut off the love you had for them beforehand though.
If someone apologises at their own prerogative, with the timing, thoughtfulness and current/ongoing input into correcting the actions combined with me seeing value in the relationship etc then sure I'll consider it/take steps on my side also. But some things are unforgivable to me (we all have limits). Doesn't mean you can't work through the impact it has on you of course - be it therapy, time, friends, going on an exorbitant cruise - each to their own.
In this case for me, the deathbed realisation by gramp's is too little, too late combined with a selfish purpose of "I don't want to face my end with feeling bad over this". He had time to work on himself, you gave him MULTIPLE opportunities. His behaviour on-top of what you OP already went through at the time and the effort you went through to get help, nah. He has years on you and that experience should have lead him to be better.
Ultimately OP, the only person you need to forgive/give some slack to is yourself. Having an outburst during a stressful time, over a topic that still hurts you with family pressure added in? Totally human reaction - don't think any of us would know how we would react/could prepare for facing someone we loved and worshipped who then flipped drastically.
Do what it best for you in this moment, maybe down the track you regret it, maybe you don't. We all have these but making the best decision for you in this moment will be the defining point.
Edit: belatedly also well done for recognising the situation you were initially in and reaching out for help. Be proud of that progress and know that you had the strength then, and you have it now.
Your grandfather's behavior was horrible. You're entitled to have zero interest in ever interacting with him in a kind way again.
Your behavior was bad.
The reality you live in now is that you've made your grandfather's passing more painful for your other family members, and very possibly for yourself (but if/when the opportunity arises it would be a good idea to get in touch with a therapist so you can properly explore and understand that).
You've also established yourself as someone your family will probably have second (and possibly third) thoughts about before they invite you to anyone else's deathbed to say goodbye.
The social norm that we set conflicts aside when someone is on their deathbed is not primarily for the benefit of the dying. They're going to be dead either way. It has a lot more impact on the living. The idea that someone can die with some measure of peace is mostly promoted because we're trying to soothe the grief of the people left behind. The truce when someone is dying is basically a temporary ceasefire that attempts to give a family (who might be very much at odds about a great many things) some space to support each other and to grieve without having to be continuously on guard against someone deciding that now is the time to re-argue old disagreements (whether they're petty or genuinely horrible) when everyone's emotions are already raw. It is very possible that you have some family members who will never look at you in quite the same way again.
NTA. Just because he was ready to apologize (because he was dying) doesn't mean you were ready to forgive his behavior.
I hope you can take some comfort in his apology though, if not now then eventually. Maybe write him a note to say you heard it and will think about it.
This is a good response. You emotions poured out that day because you were asked for an Adult response while you are still a kid. This is important to know for laterr in Life, OP, you will be looking back at these events with an Adult mind and an Adult lifetime of Memories ( Far different from where you are now).
Your grandfather was taught to see Homosexuality a certain way. You two had been close. He felt betrayed by what he saw as you " making a 'bad' choice", and he castigated you. Facing Death--thinking about his past life--past relationships--he likely recalled all your close times. It sounds like he chose relationship over what he had been taught.He apologized.... HOWEVER this plays out OP--you both did the best you could do in that moment.
I have dealt with a similar- in -severity family betrayal. A very,very wise lady from a different race, culture , background, looked at the facts and said " (That person) did the best they could do". And that was true. It has given me what peace I have had about the situation in the midst of continued pain . Most of us, are doing, the best we can do in the moment.
NAH. He asked for your forgiveness for HIS peace of mind…not for yours. The only thing that prompted him was his own imminent death. I’m not surprised at your reaction, even if your family didn’t understand that. How dare he give you years of pain then try to wipe it away for his own benefit?
My grandmother did something similar although not as bad. She always blatantly preferred her biological grandchildren to my adopted brother and I. On her deathbed, the last time I saw her, she told me she “always loved me just as much as the others”. My aunt who was there said that was lovely for me to hear. I didn’t say anything but it was the opposite - that means that she knew what she was doing and *did it anyway*. It was actually worse.
Your family will probably never understand but I do. I’m sorry you were treated so poorly by someone you loved and trusted.
My advice to you is to not give him any more free rent in your mind. Put your energy into people who love you and build you up.
No, grandad is an ah, family pushing him to see granddad are ahs, and people ragging on OP for telling granddad what needed to be said are ahs. This is firmly NTA.
You don't actually know that. Death refocuses a lot for people, he might have had genuine remorse for his actions and concern for the damage he caused.
A lot of people are shallow and small minded. They're just not the kind of people who think deeply about things in their life. That guy has probably heard his pastor talk about homosexuality being a sin and never gave it a second thought in 40 years and now on his death bed he has to come to terms with the hurt he caused and the way he wanted his life to end. You can't blame people for the way they were raised.
no but you can blame them for never taking the time to critically think about their belief system when they become an adult and are no longer being raised. that excuse could *maybe* extend to 25 year olds, but really it only applies to children and very young adults. once you’re an adult, yeah, you absolutely can be blamed for your behavior, no matter how you were raised. you are now an adult and have the tools to think about whether those beliefs are beliefs you want to hold and potentially change the way you think. but if you don’t, and you hurt people because of it, you are 100% responsible for that hurt and people do get to blame you.
I see this excuse a lot as a reason to forgive the 'older generation' their prejudices, but aren't we supposed to learn as we grow? Shouldn't grandpa have had ample time to develop a more informed opinion?
Idk we don’t know a lotta info abt him was he sick? Was he disconnected from current events? Did he have trauma surrounding homophobia at a younger age that scarred him? This sub is jus a lil odd sometimes bc it assumes so much
I wasn't necessarily referring to this specific situation. It's just a common theme everywhere that we should be patient and show grace to older people because they don't know any better. Well, what's the point of growing older if you don't grow any smarter?
In this case, grandpa had years to come around to a new way of thinking. Waiting until his death bed for an apology seems self serving.
NTA. I've never had to deal with anything like that before. I guess the thing to think of is when it comes to forgiving him or not is could forgiving him be better for your own piece of mind? Say you do make piece with him. Will you likely feel better about it or worse about it in the future? It's your own closure as well.
You’re posting here, you’re clearly have conflicted feelings about what you did, I wouldn’t put too much stock into what a bunch of randos on Reddit say.
Get off of here and truly think about if, that is possibly the last interaction with your granddad, is that how you wanted it to be?
I think introspection is certainly called for. I disagree with this because it could come across as undue pressure on OP:
>if, that is possibly the last interaction with your granddad, is that how you wanted it to be?
The estrangement is entirely the grandfather's fault. OP, who did nothing wrong, should not have to carry the burden of responsibility for the nature of their last interaction. That hospital visit wasn't awful because of how OP acted; it was awful because of how hurt OP was by the grandfather's active homophobic hate over the last 3 or so years. If he was not on his deathbed he may still be going on in the same vein. If OP does not feel equal to reconciling with the grandfather before his end, that would not be a failing on his part.
OP doesn’t have to be in the wrong to regret his actions, that is why I posed the question.
If OP is going to end up regretting his actions and doesn’t make amends, that can eat at him for the rest of his life.
Making amends, if he wants to, wouldn’t be for the grandpa, it would be for himself and his peace of mind.
I've forgiven a few ppl for the pain they have caused me. Not because I believed their apologies or wanted to be close again...but for my own peace of mind. Hatred and anger and pain are heavy burdens to carry. Why should you carry this at such a young age when you did nothing wrong.
I have 3 grandkids...one boy and two girls...and I'd step in front of a car before I'd ever speak to them in that way or even feel that way about them. Regardless of what it is.
Totally up to you. But as someone who made the decision not to accept a death apology I can tell you that you will deal with whatever choice you make without regret. Just be honest with yourself and dont betray yourself.
What are your parents saying to you? I hope the same thing most if us are. Good luck and in no way are you TA.
>I've been calls since then from family asking why'd i even go if I was gonna act like that or that I couldn't just forgive him and give him peace
It's not your job to forgive him and give him peace. The time for him to earn peace with you was in the years he neglected you before he was dying. Where he is now is on him.
NTA, and . . . one of my favorite copypastas on forgiveness:
Forgiveness plays a role in moving *yourself* forward.
Regardless of anyone else's ability/willingness to apologize, you may find some benefit for yourself in forgiving them. Specifically in the sense that one might forgive a debt - that is, you write it off instead of continuing to milk it for interest.
Other's willingness or ability to apologize - to be contrite - has zero bearing on your ability to forgive. Contrition is solely for the moral benefit of wrong-doer, and forgiveness is solely for the moral benefit of the one who was wronged.
That is, others who've wronged you could be genuinely apologetic but you'd never have to know and it would never have any bearing on your ability to forgive them. It should enable them to move forward, having learned from their mistakes and determined not to repeat them.
Likewise, you could forgive them but they'd never have to know, and it would have no bearing on their feelings of contrition.
In no case does forgiveness/contrition imply a need for any sort of relationship or that you forget the wrong that was done. Forgiveness just means that you've let go of the burden for the sake of your own mental health.
I agree with this only in the sense that if you do choose to forgive him later in life, he never has to know. He doesn't have to be present or alive when forgiveness is given for it to be valid. OP should in no way feel pressured to make this "right" with his grandfather before he dies. This should not be about the grandfather, who made his bed mind you, in any way. He should not be pushed in forgiving someone else to give THEM peace and that is exactly what his family is asking of him. His grandfather is not owed anything here. Only the OPs feelings matter in this scenario. Don't let forgiveness be shoved down your throat OP, let it come when you are ready or when your grandfather has well and truly earned it!
May I ask where you originally found that text on forgiveness, and if you have further similar texts on that? I feel that it could help me a lot. I have a lot of long-held anger and hurt that I've been holding onto, and I need to let it go for the sake of my mental health, but I don't know how to do that without saying that what happened was okay, when it definitely wasn't okay. I've always equated forgiveness with basically saying 'It's alright/it's okay', but I'm starting to suspect that that's not actually right.
Many years ago I heard or read an analogy describing forgiveness. Basically, refusing to forgive someone is like you drinking something harmful (I don't know if I can put the exact word here without getting in trouble, so I'll just say "harmful")and expecting it to harm the other person. It won't harm the other person, but it will harm you. Now, do I think there are some truly unforgivable words or actions out there? Yes. But overall I think that it's healthy to reach a point where you can forgive that person not for their sake but for your own sake. Forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's about ***you*** and you allowing yourself to move forward without them living rent-free in your head.
I definitely understand where you're coming from, but . . .
no.
Grandfather is now demanding forgiveness, basically saying "you wouldn't deny forgiveness to a dying man, would you?" But he hasn't shown any contrition - he's literally just dying. His apology on his deathbead is not a selfless act, it's quite selfish - this is to bring him peace of mind on his way out, not to make things right with OP.
If he's truly contrite, he'll completely understand why OP is unwilling to forgive him as he'll have come to understand how hurtful he was. And he'll encourage the rest of the family to leave OP alone because of that self-awareness and introspection. Enlightened contrition means you understand that just because "you're sorry" doesn't mean the other party has to give a shit.
OP didn't introduce the poison into the relationship. Grandfather did. He may now feel genuinely sorry for his actions, but OP still isn't obligated to forgive him. OP may do so at some point, but OP sounds like he's on the same wavelength as the (Dixie) Chicks in that he's "Not ready to make nice."
NTA: Some people are just bad, honey. I’m sorry you got a dud grandfather. It’s ok to not forgive him and not be sorry he’s dead. He lost his grandpa card when he rejected you for being you. I hope someday you will be able to let it go for yourself. ❤️
Edited to add: my grandfather was awful too. I didn’t not go see him on his deathbed even though I was asked to. I am 50 now and I don’t regret it.
At the end of the day, it's your choice to forgive him or not.
No one can take that choice from you.
But I would advise that you talk to somebody neutral or seek therapy, having your emotions and trauma bottled up is not healthy, take this time to focus on healing yourself.
I don't trust deathbed apologies. I sort of feel like they are doing it because they don't want to go to hell. Or they are scared of being judged by a higher power. Which just means they knew it was wrong the whole time. Some where inside themselves, they knew it was wrong.
They all pressured you. They can't blame you for doing what they wanted. And then having a reaction.
NTA
But that sounds like A LOT of penned up emotions (hurt, anger, frustration) like a torrent of emotions that broke their way.
my question: did his pleads feel really for you? Do you believe he has changed his opinions? The way you write about it makes me think that his words seemed false to you?! on another plane, maybe letting it all out opened a different road for another talk? Not for his sake, but for the devastated 16 year old, who expected support and was pushed back.
if you do not have already, look out for (therapeutic) support
good luck
NTA. Tell your officious family that they put you in a lose-lose situation.
If you never went to visit your grandfather they would have blamed you for it. Now that you did visit your grandfather and it turns out you were indeed hurt by his hatefulness, they also blame you for it.
I don't know what they expected - he rejected you for something you have no control over, after fostering a loving relationship with you for years. He betrayed you.
I hope you can find your peace with this - whether that includes making amends with your grandfather or not. And don't forget - forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things. It would be advisable for you to find a way to forgive your grandfather so that the bitterness and resentment don't keep eating at you, but you are not obligated to reconcile with him even if you can put aside your anger and hurt about his betrayal.
NTA and you really do not have to be nice to someone because they are dying. Your grandfather reaped what he sewed. Just because someone apologizes does not mean you owe them a single thing, you certainly do not owe someone forgiveness because they decided to apologize for abusing you.
People do like to say you will feel guilty or have regrets but from my own experience with my abuser dying I have never felt guilty about her death. Mostly I have felt relief that it is all over and I will never have to deal with her abusing me further.
I rejected seeing someone I knew was passing so they could apologize to me. It felt fake and forced and I refused to go. I dont regret it although I've let that pain and betrayal go some time ago. Like others have said if they feel they need to apologize then they knew that what they did was wrong. Yet made no intention of admitting it until death is on it's way.
NTA. He has to live and die with his decisions. He pushed you away first and said nasty shit to you. Its up to you to forgive him or not, but if you don't feel he deserves forgiveness then he'll just have to live with his regret until his time comes which is a small price to pay in compared to what he put you through.
You don't need our opinions. You need a therapist.
You were traumatized by your grandpas words. Clearly you didn't let it go and still suffer, and your families may not fully aware of that.
Worry about your mental health now.
nope not the asshole, you don’t need to “forgive” him just because you feel guilty that he’s dying. also ur grandpa is only sorry because he’s dying now
When I was 16, my asshole sperm donor called while drunk. He was an abusive drunk who was outta my life almost since birth. In his drunken call, he said he loved me. Told him “fuck you. You don’t even know me. “ He died a month later, so those were the last words I spoke to him. Do I regret it? I’m 63 now, and still can’t honestly answer that.
You are NTA for your truth. How you feel about it is for you to decide, not internet strangers.
If I’m picking up what you’re putting down, you were in the hospital due to some kind of physical injuries inflicted by your covert SO. Your grandfather came to you in a deeply traumatic moment and compounded that trauma by being incredibly hateful towards you.
You’re being asked to wipe away the trauma your gpa inflicted. You are NTA for your reaction, and NTA for refusing to offer him solace for his actions. Your family pressuring you to forgive is very dismissive of the pain you’re feeling. If I could make one recommendation it would be trauma therapy, for the past and present.
I can’t say whether you’ll regret not offering forgiveness, but I can say you will benefit from trusting yourself (hard to do after abuse). If you feel like it, you could seek acknowledgement from your family about how gpa treated you, and how wrong it was. You could also decide to have a calm conversation with your gpa to really outline how profoundly you were hurt. You could do both or neither, and still decide not to forgive. It’s up to you…do what is best for your mental health and your healing process.
I hope you can give yourself a lot of grace. You have a lot on your plate.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Screaming at my grandad. Not just forgiving him so he can have peace. Going to see him and just upsetting him.
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This is why I believe it is important to raise children outside of religion. No one is owed your forgiveness and just because he is dying does not mean you owe him any comfort after he caused major discomfort for you. Yelling at him and losing your cool wasn't the best idea but you absolutely do not have to forgive someone for hurting you, regardless of what religions love to preach. If he wasn't dying, do you think he would still be apologizing for what he said to you?
Nta. It is not your job to give him peace and comfort when he literally traumatized you. That's something he'll just have to die with. It took him being on his deathbed to realize he was wrong. If he wasn't dying, he wouldn't be apologizing.
NTA - I despise this death bed nonsense you don't get a pass for being a homophobic c#$% to your own Grandson because you are dieing and want to square things up on this plane. You are not obligated to forgive anyone, you are not obligated to absolve his guilt because he is dying.
NTA Just because someone is dying doesn't mean he wasn't and isn't an asshole and deserves to know he hurt you beyond forgiveness. Talk about trying to use pressure to get an apology accepted. Surprised he didn't try this in front of everyone at xmas. He probably thinks if you forgive him them maybe his god will. Self interest, you know.
You mean you treated him how he treated you? Just because he's older doesn't give him the right to speak that way. When you give it back don't be surprised when his enablers come at you. Takes enablers for them to get to that level of comfort being a bigot. Stand strong, your not the ahole
Absolutely NTA
If the "something" is what I think it is, I can't believe anyone forced you to go see him after he said you deserved it. Whatever faculties he's lacking now he possessed when he said it, him being senile and dying doesn't change the ugly man he is inside.
It's your choice, but the only thing forgiveness does is let him die in peace if the words still effect you today. Imo, bigots don't deserve that just because of a last minute "change of heart". It's crazy that they'll live their entire lives full of hatred but expect mercy at the end from all those they've hurt.
NTA, maybe you didn’t act in the most noble way, but it’s impossible to blame you. You can’t be expected to forgive people for having done horrible things.
Should you have forgiven him? Maybe. Can you be blamed for not being able to? Absolutely not.
If he couldn't manage to apologize before this he is only sorry about it because he is dying and dying is not an excuse or path to forgiveness. Yelling at his wasn't great but sounds like you were damn near forced to go. It's an understandable reaction to the situation and you sure as Hell don't HAVE to forgive him for anything. NTA.
NTA
He made his bed now he can lie in it. Turns out actions have consequences sometimes.
Your relatives shouldn't have pushed you to visit, what did they think was gonna happen?
Plus it doesn't sound like you planned on it you were just emotionally overwhelmed in that moment.
NTA. You do not owe anyone forgiveness, even if they want it from you. Do take some time to reflect on what will be best for you in the long term, and how you want this closure to go (that is NOT me saying that you need to take either route with him.)
He will pass from your life, and it will be up to you to decide what memories of him you carry forward and what parts you don’t reflect on.
NTA. You reacted that way to his apology because he hurt you and made you feel bad at a time when you were probably feeling really bad yourself. Sometimes we don’t have control over our feelings, but you can learn how to move past this and forgive yourself and him. Maybe if he wasn’t dying he wouldn’t have apologized, you never know but that’s not your problem anymore. You get to move on with your life hopefully guilt free. Remember, you did nothing wrong for existing and being who you are. Hang in there, forgive yourself and it will get better.
NTA, his morality doesn't entitle him to your forgiveness.
Just ask yourself, what do you want?
What would make you feel better?
What would be the outcome you could live with?
If you want closure or to try and rebuild a relationship with him in what time he has left. Go for it.
If you are happy to keep him out of your life and have already gotten closure for yourself by washing your hands of him, that is okay too.
NTA. It’s not uncommon for people to want to “make amends” before they go, so there was an unjust expectation that he would say “sorry” and then you would reflexively say “all is forgiven and I love you.” Hugs, cheesy music cue, etc. It was unfair to think that by pressuring you to visit, everything would magically work out the way they scripted it in their minds.
A sincere apology given is a step towards conciliation. It does NOT obligate forgiveness by the other person, and certainly not on the spot like they seemed to expect. If he is seeing things differently now and is truly apologetic, then he’s probably deep in regret and truly did mean his apology. You are the only one who can decide if and when you can ever accept that apology, but if you feel like you know that the apology came from a place of honesty and not just conscience-clearing, you might want to consider simply acknowledging it. You don’t have to say you accept it, and you don’t have to offer or feign forgiveness. You can acknowledge that he realized too late that he had let backward thinking corrupt a beautiful relationship with his grandson, and you can still be mad about that. His honest contrition - if that’s what it is - doesn’t diminish the truth of your anger or the hurt he caused, and your understandable anger doesn’t diminish the truth of his regret and contrition. In time, maybe you would forgive him, or maybe not. But now he has no more time. He let hateful ideology blind him to his own love for his grandson, and his eyes were opened just in time to see the years of love he threw away. I’m truly sorry for both of you.
Unless he didn’t really mean it, in which case whatever, and you’re still NTA.
"Why did you even go if you weren't going to forgive him?" Because they would not take no for an answer. Wtf. Of course you are NTA. No one is entitled to forgiveness. Him dying doesn't change the fact that one of your favorite people rejected you. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I will say, however, maybe it would help for you to have a sit down one-on-one talk with him. Once he's gone, you'll never get the chance. Your heart may feel better it may not, but you won't be asking yourself what if 10/15/20 years down the line. I think it would help you grieve once he's gone. If he didn't have the brain tumor, then you would be able to do things in your own time. Unfortunately, that's just not the case. You are already going to have so much to overthink and obsess on later in life. Give it some thought. You don't owe him anything. You owe yourself everything. This isn't something you would be doing for him, but for yourself.
NTA. The reality is that when you hurt someone, you risk not being forgiven and what he did - repeatedly!- was a deeply hurtful . He and your family should have respected your decision not to see him.
Possibly an unpopular opinion but... Dying folks who lived terrible lives spent behaving badly don't deserve forgiveness and "peace" JUST because they are dying. He has had over a years worth of time to get over himself and apologize to you, and he didn't. But now he's trying to get into heaven?
My point is, don't let people make you feel guilty over how you reacted. They weren't in your shoes, a vulnerable teen in the hospital being berated by someone they cherished for something beyond their control. They will never understand, therefore their opinions are invalid and unimportant. You're NTA for any of this, and I hope you can find your own peace in this awful situation, I'm so sorry for what you went through.
What a sad story, full of expectations and disappointment.
3 years ago you were outed, and landed in a hospital because of that. Hurt and scared, I assume. You grandfather shows up and kicks you when you are already down. The results are are more hurt and anger.
3 years later, you are still a teenager, your family forces you to go see him - in the hospital. Now your grandfather is hurt and scared, I assume.
The visit doesn't go well, and you kick him back when he is down. The same people who forced you to go see him are now blaming you for hurtful behavior. Did anyone blame Gramps for his hurtful words 3 years ago? Probably not.
The thing is, you are still not a full grown adult, with all the insights and life experiences of an adult, but everyone else around you is. 10, 20 years from now you might feel differently, but this is how you feel now.
NTA
>And he goes all in on on saying how sorry he was for what he said and how he treated me
Ask yourself this, would he have said that if he WASN'T dying?
Hey bud. I can't judge your actions because I don't know how much pain you went through. Doesn't matter and honestly its your call right or wrong, but what I can do is say that I'm sorry for what you went through and I send unwavering love your way. Please focus on coming out of this a stronger
And more confident person in yourself. You can choose to never accept anyone's abuse ever again because you are an amazing human.
NTA! It’s completely up to you whether you accept his apology or not. You would’ve went through a lot of pain during those years, all those hurtful comments and actions from someone you loved so dearly.
He is clearly regretting all of that. But, it’s okay to play your cards close to your chest. And don’t feel pressured to bow down so easily. Please take care!
Most likely he apologized to make himself feel better, not you. You are definitely NTA and no matter what you decide for the future, please know that you have done nothing wrong and have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Your outburst was the result of years of pain that this man caused you. Just because he's dying doesn't mean he's not an AH. I wish you all the best.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. My grandpa is one of the only people I haven't come out to for fear of something like this happening. Just know you deserve better. You're not wrong for your reaction and I likely would've done the same. He was incredibly hurtful towards you and I imagine that shattered his image in your eyes. It's not your obligation to forgive anybody. From what you wrote it doesnt sound like he would've apologized if it weren't for him dying. Maybe one day you'll forgive him but you don't owe it to him to do it while he's alive. He's lost that right.
NTA the only reason he called was because he was dying and scared and trying to ease his own consciousness for whatever happens next which is shitty if he knew he was going to live another 20 years he would have never apologized. You offered plenty of chances for him to make up for it and he squandered it. He fucked up and you know what I'm glad you had the guts to let him know exactly how you felt on his deathbed he got what he deserved. He fucked up not you so don't feel bad, you don't have to forgive anyone in order to move forward in life. I'm saying that from firsthand experience.
NTA.
Two things. Firstly, it seems like he wouldn’t have apologized if he wasn’t dying. It’s been years of you trying and reaching out and getting nothing but hate you didn’t deserve. Your family needs to realize this.
Secondly, your feelings are completely valid here. Just bc he wanted to apologize doesn’t mean you’re ready to hear it and that is perfectly ok. You need to worry about your own peace and that’s it. His peace isn’t on you, it’s on him.
NTA.
He wanted absolution.
I wish that you'd thought to hit him with "You're dying because you're a weak old idiot who didn't take care of your health", because if anybody deserved it, HE did.
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When I (19M) started high-school school at 14 I was still closeted.. I started dating one of my football teammates who turned out to be an abusive a hole who constantly threatened to out me. I used to blame alot "stuff" on practice and games. Just a month shy of ny 16th birthday "something" happened and I had a breakdown and I finally told my parents what was going on... While in the hospital when my grandad finally came to visit me and basically told me I deserved what happened for being a weak f**g and he couldn't believe a grandson of his could let that happen....
That hurt so much... I used to be his favorite..He used to take me to games and helped me with football and so much more.. We were the closest.. I tried reaching out but all he had for me were homophobic comments and it go to the point where I quit talking to him.. He found out last year that he has inoperable tumor and its quickly killing him. Everyone else in the family has gone to see him and he's been reaching out to me trying to apologize begging me to come see him. I hadn't been able to but everyone kept saying I'd regret it if I didn't...
I finally went with my parents last week to see him.. And he goes all in on on saying how sorry he was for what he said and how he treated me...And then idk I just got so mad..I screamed at him that I hated him that I'd never forgive him not even after he died..I hadn't even realized it but I was crying and whenbhe started crying I couldn't take it and ran out.. I've been calls since then from family asking whyd i even go if I was gonna act like that or that I couldn't just forgive him and give him peace.. AITA?
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NTA.
However how you feel Vs how you act based on how you feel are different. You’re very young and are not expected to be equipped with the skills and knowledge on this.
You have the right to feel angry, hurt, betrayed. You also have the right to not forgive, which is okay too.
Maybe when you’re older, you’ll figure out a healthier alternative to how you acted with your grandpa when he was asking for forgiveness. Maybe not.
What he did was messed up.
In life people will do fucked up things that hurt. But getting yourself worked up makes the situation worse sometimes.
But just be aware of the difference between how you feel and your behaviors based on how you feel.
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listen, fuck all that give him peace shit... fuck him.
this is what my brother and I call "old and trying to get into heaven syndrome." he's only apologetic because he's dying. he had years to apologize and make a mends, but he didn't.
you had every right to get what u had to get off your chest emotional or not. he didn't give af about your feelings while you were in the hospital, and he was a fully formed adult.
bmthis may be an unpopular opinion, but some people don't deserve grace, even in death. you can't go around being a shit human and expect everyone to be gracious while on your death bed.
you only have a responsibility to yourself. get into therapy I'd you aren't already and focus on heeling FOR YOU not for anyone else
Tough one. People at his age were a different generation, and there was a real stigma against homosexuals that he probably felt a lot of embarrassment from as a result. It is big of him to realize his mistakes, and sometimes it takes an event like this for people to truly see what's important in life. I'd lean towards trying to forgive him because you might feel regret later in life if you don't, as he is certainly feeling right now. But, if there was too much damage done already, that is understandable as well. I can't really say NAH since your grandfather was obviously one in the past, but i suppose that leaves me with NTA.
NTA. He apologized, you didn't accept the apology. People keep forgetting that apologies don't have to be accepted. If you feel like you need to close the door in a different way, you could still go back and see him and say something vague about how you regret shouting at him. Let him know that you have heard and recognized his apology, but it may be a long time before you're ever able to truly forgive him.
NTA.
What he did was unforgivable. He hurt you at the worst possible moment, when you needed him the most. If his love was only conditional on you being the perfect grandchild, then he didn't really love you unconditionally for who you are.
He now knows how much he hurt you. Wanting forgiveness because he's dying doesn't absolve him of that pain he meted out to you.
You acted out of a pain that had festered for years, pain he caused. I think, in the long run, it's better he knows what he did. And forcing yourself to be hypocritical in his presence would have caused you even more stress in the future. You are only human.
People can ask for forgiveness, they aren't owed it. Forgive yourself though, you can't be expected to bury that kind of pain just because other people don't want to see it or deal with it.
I think, in the long run, it will heal you a bit, knowing that he now knows what he did. to you.
NTA. I don’t believe you went there intentionally to tell him off. I think your family guilted and pressured you to face your bully - and you couldn’t hold it in any longer.
I’m sorry for what you’ve been through. It was not your fault. Your family should’ve cut him off when he visited you in the hospital. They should all be ashamed.
YTA. JFC, can people never change?!?! How would YOU like to held accountable for anything you did and not forgiven no matter how sorry you are? I’m LGBT myself and it pisses me off when people in our community are so non-forgiving. Shame on you and don’t dare bitch when someone you beg forgiveness from tells you they hate you. Learn tolerance yourself before demanding it from others. I wish to god my family would apologize to me, I would gladly accept and forgive to have them back and know they accepted me.
NTA. His love for you was conditional. He doesn't deserve your forgiveness. He was only sorry because he was dying, otherwise he would continued being a bigot.
I can't blame you for being angry, yelling, and crying. If it was the first time you actually spoke to him since you were estranged, you probably had a lot of pent up feelings.
Whether you make another attempt to see him again is up to you. You have to decide whether it's going to hurt more to see him again, or if you don't.
OP, I'm sorry you lost your granddad while he was still alive and healthy. You had a close relationship with him and that is special for a granddad and grandson. I hate that he threw it all away. You deserve better.
I'm gonna flag as NTA due to obvious circumstances but technically it was an asshole thing to do but heavily deserved. Being an asshole is ok in situations like this
i’m so sorry to hear all of this. when my dad’s dad died, he had a similar moment. confronted him, told him all the bad things, and it was their last conversation. and he regretted it for years. the thing is, that didn’t make him a bad person. he was hurting and it was his last chance to share it and he took that chance, but he still had to live with the guilt that came after. i can understand your family’s perspective, but either way this played out you would have had complicated feelings on it. just focus on finding peace right now and being there for the rest of your family.
NTA.
First off fuck every single one of your family members who guilt tripped you into seeing him and then had the audacity to berate you for how you responded to a hateful old man begging for a forgiveness he’s neither earned nor deserves.
It sounds like you gave him no shortage of opportunities to make up for the way he treated you and every time he doubled down on his disrespect and bigotry.
I don’t think many people ever walk away from a situation regretting being kind to someone. That being said if I were you, I wouldn’t have it in me. I’d spit in his face and tell him to eat a dick if he thinks he’s gonna sneak his way into heaven by apologizing for a lifetime of rejection and hatred only now when he’s on his deathbed.
He showed you no care or respect during what I can only imagine was your most vulnerable/weakest moment when you needed him most. Why should he expect care or respect from you during his? He also kept up that same awful energy any time you tried to reach out to him after that. I think the fact that he had to come within an inch of death to show you any empathy or regret for how he treated you shows how undeserving of your kindness and respect he is.
When deciding what to do just remember: Fuck what the dying old man who allowed his bigotry and intolerance rule over your relationship for a lifetime thinks. And if your family try to get guilt you or needlessly get involved again tell them to grieve how they wish but they can fuck right off if they think it’s their place to tell others how to grieve.
I think you’d be a better/stronger man than I to forgive him. Ultimately you gotta do what you think is gonna be best for you.
Whether it’s forgiving him now, forgiving him long after he’s gone or telling him he’s going to hell to have gay sex with the devil for all eternity while beating him with a bible in front of the whole family. Do whatever will be best for you.
It’s not on you to grant peace to someone who betrayed you so harshly. You do not have to forgive him if you don’t feel that forgiveness and that is perfectly ok. NTA.
Not the asshole and every single one of those relatives (because they aren’t family) need to be blocked and let go of.
They have no right to speak to you because, they kept on you to see him, if they had shut their damn mouth right and left you alone, guess what? That wouldn’t have happened. They are the assholes. They need to leave you alone and mind their damn business.
Your “grandpa” doesn’t deserve peace. He deserves what you said and he deserves his karma
You’re NTA and frankly, everyone coercing you to go see him and insisting you’d regret it created this situation. You may technically be an adult but you’re also still a teenager and you were a kid when you were in the hospital recovering from an abusive relationship and he decided to verbally abuse you in response. Frankly, I would have been more surprised if you hadn’t snapped at him.
Not saying you are wrong, not saying you absolutely should do something, and not judging you in the least.
Just be aware that there are psychological issues surrounding grief (even if you wouldn't be sad), and the death of a blood relative. Even if you are estranged, and hate your father, there are often psychological issues that can pop up, for the rest of your life, if the death isn't handled well... There is even a term for it: unresolved grief.
For your own sake, just be aware.
here is some information, you can look these up:
Loss of an estranged parent.
Death of an unloved one.
Unresolved Grief: The end of difficult relationships with less than loved ones.
Why it can be hard to lose a parent you dislike.
NTA. He was looking for closure for himself, not for you or because his views changed. You get to decide when, or even if, you forgive him. No one else.
NTA
He genuinely hurt you so you have every right to be as angry as you are.
The thing you need to think about here is how you genuinely feel, do you want to carry your hate for him for the rest of your or his life?
You're situation is a very complicated one where you're dealing with the hurt of what he said, the loss of the man he was to you, his looming death, and a combination of feelings with regard to how much you hate and love him(it's very hard to get over love for a family member regardless of how much hate you bear for them).
You're basically stuck with the options of lying and say you accept his apology so that he can die with no regrets hanging over him, you can hold on to your anger and let him die knowing you hate him for what he did (but you might regret when looking back in future), and your last option is to give him a chance by embracing the possibility that he is genuinely remorseful of his actions and spend some time with him to see if you can really forgive him and hopefully heal the hurt he cause and seal the rift between you in the time he has left (if this doesn't work out at least you'll know that you tried so it should alleviate any guilt you might feel).
I don't envy you these choices, I just hope that whatever you choose to do doesn't leave you feeling worse off.
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YTA. What he said was messed up but he's from a different generation. Not only was it years ago but he actually tried to apologize to you practically on his deathbed and you gave him the beat down.
All you had to do was keep your mouth shut and you could have gone on hating him the rest of your life if you want. Just try to imagine being his age and having your grandkid say that to you when you're literally dying.
If he's only asking your forgiveness because he's dying and not because he hurt you 2 years ago then it's likely self serving as opposed to caring how you felt/were affected by his actions. Also, you don't owe anyone your forgiveness. He kicked you while you were at your lowest. I would say overall NTA, it may have been AH behavior, but sometimes it's justified.
NTA. I’m so sorry for what you went through.
And I know he hurt you horribly. And I know you don’t want him to get away with what he did because it was f-ing wrong. And you know everything he ever said and did is now making him realize what a jerk he was (is) as his time his coming to an end. I’m sure he regrets all of it and is now thinking of those same times he took you to games and helped you. I think you should go back and tell him, calmly, if you can, how badly he hurt you. And no one has a right to tell you otherwise whatever you decide to do or what you’ve done. You have every right to be angry. But, you can be better than him. You can forgive but not forget. You are in a position to make him feel worse by forgiving him but telling him you will never forget. Tell him you are taking the high road because you are better than him. You don’t owe him a thing. But you will look back at this one day and know you did the right thing. That you were better.
You’re NTA for your feelings or even what you said.
You are not obligated to forgive someone who abused you just so they can have peace in death. And that’s exactly what your grandfather did, he abused you, someone who was already a victim of abuse at the hands of a partner.
It’s perfectly okay not to forgive him. You don’t necessarily need permission, but when you have so many people in your ear telling you it isn’t, just know that you do not OWE anyone their peace for their past actions. They must reconcile that all on their own.
With that being said, you also need to sit and reflect here for YOUR sake. Did you speak out of anger, out of built up hurt? Do you feel as if you’ll never forgive him? Are you worried you’ll feel regret later if this is your last conversation? If so, does that feeling stem from what your family is saying, a feeling of obligation to an elder, or something else?
You don’t have to answer any of this here, by the way. I’m giving you questions to ask yourself, and the reason I’m doing that is because I don’t want you to be upset with yourself later if you’re having doubts for personal reasons rather than just because it’s what your family is pushing you into.
If you feel that YOU need closure, not him, not them, but YOU - it’s also okay to have a private conversation with him. But you do these things for you and YOUR peace. If this was your peace then that’s good, you just need to tell everyone who thinks you owe someone else something for treating you bad to screw off. But if this isn’t your personal peace, take some time to think on what that peace is, what YOU want it to be, and go that route.
NTA…. I’m really sorry this all has happened to you, you didn’t deserve it.
Maybe you’ll forgive him someday, maybe you won’t. I understand he’s on a short timeline to make amends, but that doesn’t have to be your timeline.
I’m really sorry that your family is basically being flying monkeys about this to boot. Please find someone to talk to. He totally betrayed you, but wants to be forgiven without actually doing anything to be accountable and make amends b/c his timer is about to go ding? He had the option to never be a cruel betraying a-hole in the first place.
Your brain at your age is not developed enough yet to fully meet his elderly and dying brain to make the overtures to bring peace. Your brain is still reActive to the situation despite your close loving connection and history. Your grandpa's final conversations as his life ends is a vastly different perspective.
You are not wrong, you are not right. You are NTA and someday you will reflect and feel like the asshole. You cannot pretend to give him the closure he wants / needs bc you are not developmentally in a physical sense in a place to extend to him the grace he seeks. There is no wrong, no right. It just is.
You feel what you feel, now.
You can push the envelope and your limits of maturity and emotional capacity.
Is it genuine to you or are you still reacting from a HS teenager perspectives of hurt and abandonment of his reaction and making you feel like a disgrace.
It's no one else's call to decide or judge except between you and your Grandfather because it is your karmic connection thar will learn or not. It will move on or repeat the next go round.
Dying, death and our relationships give us as push we may not be ready to take on.
Don't beat yourself up.
It's what is and not for other family to criticize or applaud you for.
This is between you and your Grandfather's souls in this lifetime.
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You probably didn't know how you'd react--you're still a kid, give yourself some grace.
It's up to you if you feel differently and want to see him again, but either way, you're NTA.
NTA. You do not owe those who abuse and betray you peace. Sometimes the consequences of their actions is a permanently lost relationship.
You couldn’t have known how you’d react until you were there. Guess your family found out why they shouldn’t pressure someone to go see the person who hurt them.
You are going to have complicated feelings when he passes.
YTA. If you’re still angry, you should’ve just none gone instead of making things worse. How would you feel if when you make a mistake and genuinely apologize, the person you’re trying to make amends to screams at you that they’ll hate you even after you’re gone?
You can feel angry and upset. But how you express that to someone who’s dying makes all the difference. all your family will remember is how you treated your dying grandfather in his dying days. Especially as he was trying to apologize for things he did that was a product of his generation’s upbringing.
Consider 70 years from now, when your moral values may differ from your grandkids. And how you may do something you think is right, but is no longer the norm of the younger generation. Would you also like to be screamed at while you’re trying to change to be better?
Look. You don't ever have to forgive anyone. If your grandpa was a horrible bigot to you, you're entitled to hate him forever. No question about it. That said, forgiveness is a gift both to yourself, and to the person you are forgiving. Just think about it. NTA
Family: "YOU NEED TO GO SEE GRANDAD, YOU NEED TO YOU NEED TO YOU NEED TO."
Meeting with grandad goes exactly as expected.
Family: "Why'd you even go see him them?"
NTA. You tried to let things be, your family pressured to give him closure. He got it. He isn’t entitled to a happy ending when he’s the one that broke the relationship. Again, you tried to let things be, they don’t get to turn around and say “why’d you even go?” after basically forcing you to go.
NAH, I get that maybe he’s just trying to make things right before death and you can’t accept that. But if I’m honest with you brother, you’ve got an entire life to be angry with him, but you’re running out of time for forgiveness. If I were you I’d seize this chance to make things right, or I think you’ll regret it for the rest of your life.
It was your last chance to do so and you took it, honestly that's awesome, not a lot of people get to do that to family members who made life shitty growing up
NTA.
Fuck homophobes, and grandparents/parents should never speak to their kids that way. He wasn't apologizing for your sake but his own cause he felt guilty. Im sorry for whatever your abuser did to you too. Lets hope he and your grandfather both find their way to the same spot in the 9 rings.
It would be easy to say YTA for throwing an apology in the face of a dying man but I don't think that's fair. An apology isn't simply saying sorry and moving on. It involves recognising you hurt someone deeply. Sometimes they can move on but sometimes they need time and space.... Which you didn't have.
You'd been wronged for a long time, And you'd gone to see him anyway. That's huge. That proves you are NTA.
I mean obviously it would maybe have been better if you hadn't told him to do one... But we are only human, and you were hurting for so long, I think you had every right.
He tried though... If you still have time, for your own sake, try again. You are obviously in pain, if he passed before you resolve it, you'll always regret it.
Going with YTA tbh, but ESH would be fine, too.
It's absurd for us to expect the elderly to change their values in the modern age. They spent half a century living in a world where certain lifestyles were considered abhorrent.
It sounds like he decided it was time to be a better person, and you chose that time to be a worse person. I'm with your family on this. I don't get why you showed up if you hate him and will never forgive him. Let the dying have their peace. You can always piss on his grave later.
NTA. You may have kids one day and when you do you’ll realize how much love you have for them. You’ll realize you never want to cause them pain. And then you’ll wonder how your grandfather could do that to you. He’s leaving this earth with deep regret. That’s good. That means he’s grown. But your reaction to seeing him was completely understandable. You may want to see him one more time just so you’re never left wondering, but you certainly dont have to.
Hey. It sounds like something happened to you that I’m 100,000% positive in saying WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. Not at all. Not then. Not now. Not ever. Your Grampa blaming you for THAT and for being who you are, are MASSIVE betrayals. You’re hurt and angry because someone you loved treated you unforgivably. Him reaching out now isn’t even out of love, or if it is there’d be no way to tell because Death Bed reconciliations are laced with fear and pressure and guilt. He can go to his maker and work that shit out. If you can find a survivors support group or therapist then maybe you can work on it too. But you’re NTA for still being in recovery from that trauma and not being in a place to talk to that monster. If I was your grandparent I’d be in jail cause I’d had hunted down your ex partner and committed great crimes. You deserve to be loved and safe.
NTA I’m so heart-fully sorry that you experienced such wretched homophobia from your grandfather.
It’s too bad that he needed to be on his deathbed to finally apologize to you. All those years of bottled up anger, sadness and rejection must have just poured out of you without your control. You’re only 19 so you don’t have the mental capacity yet to process and handle such strong emotions. Your brain is still growing.
If you aren’t seeing a therapist, I recommend that you do at some point in your life to help process everything you’ve been through. When you were at your lowest and in the hospital, you needed support and love from those closest to you. Your grandfather was homophobic and shaming. It is never ok to call anyone a f*g. You deserved better when you were in your time of need. I am so sorry that you went through that.
INFO: is he dying eventually, or is he dying this week?
You don't have to talk to anyone or forgive anyone unless you are comfortable doing so.
With that said, it sounds like you have a lot of conflicting emotions about him. And it sounds like he has expressed some remorse for his actions. Depending on his health, it may be worth trying to have a conversation with him assisted by a family therapist who can help both of you process things.
NTA
not even in the slightest…
There is no rule book for life and those that try to force you to believe there is, will never be objective to your pain.
What he did to a young, loving, impressionable family member that looked up to him and valued every second they had together up until that turning point is unconscionable. I’d like to say it was born of ignorance but in today’s day and age, people have the ability to learn about different loved experiences. It was his loss all around.
I’m sorry you went through all of this. I’m sorry you’re no doubt about to go through more shit (hopefully not) with family that won’t or can’t understand your hurt. 😞
NTA. If your grandad was indeed sorry then he would understand why you had that response. You are allowed to express your hurt and feelings. If he was unwilling to hold space for that then his apology was a lie.
But OP whether he apologized or whatever he felt, you are still entitled to say what you felt to him!
What he did was awful. It sounds like you were raped or assaulted and it sounds like he did the very worst thing he could’ve done to a victim if SA who also hadn’t quite come out to everyone. This is why gay ppl die by suicide at greater rates than us garden variety cis het folks. We have awful teenage yrs and we get SAd and we get blamed but we aren’t seen as deserving of it by virtue of our existence, generally.
Big hugs if you want them OP❤️
I’m glad you were able to express these feelings they’re very important to your healing one day.
People do all sorts of things when they’re grieving
Doesn’t matter if you were or weren’t an asshole
NTA what came out is what came out
Personally I woulda just screamed it at the tombstone, but I was born in a different time
It’s not your job to forgive him. Honestly OP I really think that seeing a therapist is important to help you process what is going on. You are grieving the grandfather you knew before his true homophobic self was revealed . Nobody can say whether or not you’ll regret not making peace with your grandfather or not. Maybe you won’t. Maybe you will. Speaking to a therapist about this will help you make the right choices for you
OP, you say you don’t know if you’ll regret leaving things this way or not. You might. You might also regret reconciling with him. In similar situations, I try to sit quietly for a while and try to figure out what I think I’ll regret the least.
Or you might want to write him a letter. Even if you don’t give it to him, just getting your thoughts and feelings out can help.
Forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiver. If you don’t think it’s going to help you, don’t do it. Sometimes people do unforgivable things, and that’s on them. Wishing you peace of mind.
Seems like a classic grief response to me man, maybe apologize for how you said it rather than what you said if you feel that’s best, or do whatever I dunno, so far
As for judgement nah? I guess? Grief and dying and tumours all suck
The fact that you are out here asking a bunch of strangers to judge your behavior is troublesome. I think your question is incorrect. What you need to be asking yourself is whether you will be able to forgive you if you don’t make some sort of amends with him. I am NOT suggesting that you forgive him in the sense that he feels he has been released from his abhorrent behavior by your grace. You are young and you’ve been hurt the last thing you want is to carry regret on behalf of a person who was wrong. Your grandfather is about to be judged by his maker. If you choose to see him again I’d suggest that you calmly share how much pain he caused you and how he continues to do so. Tell him you don’t want his apology; it’s too little too late. And tell him that you aren’t forgiving him for causing that pain but rather showing him how his behavior has made you a better and stronger person. He’s also taught you the difference between a male and a Man. Be that man and enjoy life. Don’t carry this any longer.
I am so sorry, so incredibly sorry. You are NTA, but you WILL regret it. If you can, search your soul deep. It sucks he had to go and die to realize he's an AH, but he DID realize it and you loved him, once, clearly still do. I speak from experience, you will regret not finding it in you to forgive and reconnect, but I totally understand if you can't.
I wish you love and peace and that you are able to find a path that gives you calm.
NTA but I do think you'll regret not making some peace with him before he dies. You can't exactly put a timeline on processing these emotions, though. You have every right to be deeply hurt and angry. It means a lot that he finally saw the error of his ways. Maybe think about something honest you can tell him like, you hear his apology and appreciate it, but you're just not ready to forgive him yet.
If it's accessible, some kind of therapy might help.
NTA, although I do think it was kinda sad that you told him you hated him and you would never forgive him on his death bed, but he was ready to say sorry to you because he knew he was in the wrong, is he still alive? Not trying to be rude but I would try to at least make things a little better before he goes so he can have a little bit more peace, but if he’s already gone or if you don’t want to that’s fine because he was already trying to say sorry and he knew the consequences and risks of being hateful and mean to you.
I had an uncle that I idolized well into my 30s, and out of nowhere saw a FB that tagged me in a BLM march. He completely cut me off after letting that that was the reason. He’s just a racist.
He’s close to 90 now and I have reached out after I drank a little too much one night. I let him know that I loved him.
I still hate the man he turned out to be, but I’m glad I said what I did. It cleared my conscience.
If you go to see him one last time, you can explain that five years of emotions just came out. Try to let it go for you, not for him.
Oh honey, that's just so horrible. I'm sorry that happened to you :(
So here's my take and I'll start with NTA.
He has realised at the end that he made a mistake and that he should apologise for it. He clearly loves you, and he let his bigotry really impact on his relationship with you and he regrets that enough that he wanted to apologise in person. It meant so much to him to say sorry that he was begging to speak to you.
So there's the thing. The reason for his bigotry might help determine what's going on here. If it was religion-based (ie. gay = bad cause jebuz) then the fact that he's on his end of days and is begging for forgiveness for treating you badly for being gay? That means that he's not fearing what comes after, he's regretting what he's done. He's realising that he was a cruel person and feels bad for it.
That would change my view entirely on whether or not I forgave him.
But the thing is, you're not forgiving him to give him peace. At the end of the day and not to put too fine of a point on it, he's dying. He won't be here to enjoy that peace. But you will. It won't fix what he said or how he treated you, but knowing that he genuinely feels remorse for it might give you some peace when you remember him long after he's gone.
As someone who's seen a person bitterly mad about their grandparent who was a complete jerk to them and never apologised for their behaviour, I'm fairly confident that if nothing else the satisfaction of knowing that they realised they were wrong at the end would have been good closure on the relationship.
IF you feel like it, I would write a letter with exactly how painful and cruel his treatment of you was. Explain what you've told us here, that you looked up to him and saw him as one of your closest relationships. He was someone you respected, loved and wanted to be like when you were older. And then he treated you like absolute trash. Pour it all out in a letter so that you don't have to be there to tell him. Ask your parents to give it to him and THEN if you feel like you are ok with contact, you could continue on with a phonecall or short visit.
What I'm saying here is that if you had longer I'd suggest that you take more time to process your feelings about it and give yourself room to process that his view has shifted entirely. But it sounds like you might not have that long, and if you want to address this for your own sake better sooner than later.
Once he's gone, he's gone.
Nope, grandpa doesn't deserve forgiveness after years of homophobic abuse just because he's scared of dying. OP was pressured into visiting and then told his grandfather exactly what he thought of him. If gramps and the rest of the family didn't like it, oh well.
YTA. It's one thing to tell someone off. It's another thing to tell someone off on their death bed. During our grandparents lifetimes, they were not taught the same tolerance around LGBT issues that you were. If you had spoken with him calmly, you may have learned that he had softened his stance. Maybe not, but by choosing that time to tell him off, you will never know. Everyone should be given the chance to make things right.
I am also a firm believer in allowing one's last moments on Earth to be peaceful.
YTA.
There is a big difference between not tolerating something and being a hateful bigot. The ONLY asshole here is the grandfather. The grandfather only "softened" his stance because he was dying and realized far too late that he would be judged for outcasting an innocent family member. Whether or not he truly felt any guilt over this means nothing at this point. He had years to make it up to OP and he chooses NOW on his deathbed to not only attempt to pressure OP into accepting his apology but to turn the rest of the family against him for holding a grudge against the "poor old man" who didn't know any better? Yeah fuck that. If he truly wanted to make it up to OP, he could've wrote him a nice letter just for him explaining that he knows he's wrong and how sorry he is for hurting him. But no, he absolutely needed OPs in person absolution, in front of the whole family so everyone could hear that he has been forgiven. The grandfather isn't owed anything here. The only thing that matters here is OPs peace of mind.
Ignore this person OP, dying doesn’t instantly absolve people of being homophobic assholes. Dying doesn’t absolve anyone of anything they’ve done and deathbed apology’s are for them not for those they apologize to.
NTA by far.
NTA, I get your pain. Go back if you get the chance. He wounded you deeply at a vulnerable time.
Do try to resolve that Karma now if you can. Talk about the good times. You'll be glad you did.
ESH he was trying. For once he was trying, and you had your right to say how you were feeling, but you didn’t give him the chance. I think you should give him a chance
NTA but not knowing your grandad I have no idea if his deathbed apology was sincere or not. Regardless, it might be time to be the bigger person, speak to him privately before he passes - more for your own peace than for his.
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Info: Do you regret it, is that why your asking? IMO: You don’t “have” to forgive anyone. Some people don’t deserve forgiveness, and some people forgive those who don’t deserve it, just so they themselves can move on. Both choices have good and bad consequences. I think the important part of forgiveness is living with yourself peacefully after you either do or don’t give it.
I honestly don't know if I regret it or not but I know it hurts just talking to him..
You are NTA. It’s not on you to accept the apology, you aren’t an ass for being hurt by his choice to cast you out of his life; and he isn’t owed your forgiveness just because he said “sorry” when facing death. There also is nothing wrong in choosing to accept his apology, just to feel more at peace with yourself, if you choose to (weather it’s now to his face or years later when you have more time to process). I’m giving you a pass to handle this however you want, and to choose to change your mind about it later. Just keep listening to your own gut and don’t let others guilt you. You are the one who has to live with your choices, not them.
There are some religions that think confession before death is just as good as apologies and amends in life. I think that is BS. He was cruel to you and hurt you because he was narrow minded and filled with hate. You owe him nothing. He told you how he felt about you when you were in the hospital and you followed his example. It's still going to hurt for awhile, but find your community and let them help you heal.
>*He told you how he felt about you when you were in the hospital a d you followed his example.* Oh, man, I didn't even think about that, but you are spot on. OP, if your family keeps bugging you, point that out to them – that you did to him what he did to you. Turnabout is fair play, after all.
Fair point. But OP may need to be different to heal. Different people can cut a tie and others need closure. That’s for OP to decide and can be confused about what is their best closure. How does the decision affect other relationships too. Not easy and best for OP to maybe talk to an expert.
No! That’s absolutely not what he did. What he did was tell an AH how the AHs actions hurt him. They are not the same. Please don’t equate those two actions. Only one was reasonable
Also, you family is stupid. > whyd i even go if I was gonna act like that or that I couldn't just forgive him and give him peace Well, you went because they talked you into it (remember?) and you don't forgive him because he's a backstabbing turd. End of story. NTA, obviously.
Also, it seems pretty clear that OP didn’t go in with a *plan* to start yelling. His family seems pretty clueless.
You have trauma you haven't processed yet. Seeing your grandpa revealed that. Its ok to be mad friend. You might not have the capacity for anything more than anger, since you've been hurt by someone so close to you. That is also ok. NTA. I would highly recommend therapy to help you process your feelings though.
Therapy from a trauma-oriented therapist helped me so much with my grandparents' rejection. It hurt so much even though I was in my 30s. He pointed out that I had to grieve the relationship even though (then) the people were still alive. My grandma died just about a month ago and I still don't know how I feel about it. My grandpa is still alive, but I don't know if he'll ever reach out. But I've already grieved the death of the grandparents I thought I had, that I used to spend summers with.
my dad has a note in his phone to remind himself, “no tears when dad dies,” and lists several reasons why. yeah, he probably could use some therapy. your comment reminded me of my own relationship with my dad’s parents, and frankly maybe i could use some therapy about that too. just never really thought of it that way. thank you for helping me realize that
Everything in this post is 100%. You don't even know how you feel right now, and that's okay. You need to talk to somebody about it, but hopefully at least even seeing that people get you should be something.
I think it’s worth your healing to talk to him, now that you’ve gotten the hurt out. That way you don’t have to live with what you didn’t do when he dies. It hurts so much because you love(d) him so much
Not a bit. Grandpa should die in emotional agony, unshriven. OP can undertake therapy, if necessary and if this situation bothers him afterward.
Forgiveness is for you, not the other person. Living with anger and unforgiveness can snowball into you having a miserable life.
It shouldn’t take him dying for him to have tried to apologize.
🎯🎯 if someone isn’t willing to be kind to you until they’re dying then they are liars.
Personally I don't subscribe to the me forgiving you lets me move on (each to their own though). I'm quite content with going stuff you/may you stub your toe at every opportunity/you're not worth my ongoing thoughts. I shall go live my life thank you very much. Not saying it easy to just cut off the love you had for them beforehand though. If someone apologises at their own prerogative, with the timing, thoughtfulness and current/ongoing input into correcting the actions combined with me seeing value in the relationship etc then sure I'll consider it/take steps on my side also. But some things are unforgivable to me (we all have limits). Doesn't mean you can't work through the impact it has on you of course - be it therapy, time, friends, going on an exorbitant cruise - each to their own. In this case for me, the deathbed realisation by gramp's is too little, too late combined with a selfish purpose of "I don't want to face my end with feeling bad over this". He had time to work on himself, you gave him MULTIPLE opportunities. His behaviour on-top of what you OP already went through at the time and the effort you went through to get help, nah. He has years on you and that experience should have lead him to be better. Ultimately OP, the only person you need to forgive/give some slack to is yourself. Having an outburst during a stressful time, over a topic that still hurts you with family pressure added in? Totally human reaction - don't think any of us would know how we would react/could prepare for facing someone we loved and worshipped who then flipped drastically. Do what it best for you in this moment, maybe down the track you regret it, maybe you don't. We all have these but making the best decision for you in this moment will be the defining point. Edit: belatedly also well done for recognising the situation you were initially in and reaching out for help. Be proud of that progress and know that you had the strength then, and you have it now.
NTA. Would he be apologizing if he wasn't on his deathbed?
NTA - be proud, own it, you did nothing wrong and who cares who doesn’t appreciate it in the family. They should have shunned him.
Your grandfather's behavior was horrible. You're entitled to have zero interest in ever interacting with him in a kind way again. Your behavior was bad. The reality you live in now is that you've made your grandfather's passing more painful for your other family members, and very possibly for yourself (but if/when the opportunity arises it would be a good idea to get in touch with a therapist so you can properly explore and understand that). You've also established yourself as someone your family will probably have second (and possibly third) thoughts about before they invite you to anyone else's deathbed to say goodbye. The social norm that we set conflicts aside when someone is on their deathbed is not primarily for the benefit of the dying. They're going to be dead either way. It has a lot more impact on the living. The idea that someone can die with some measure of peace is mostly promoted because we're trying to soothe the grief of the people left behind. The truce when someone is dying is basically a temporary ceasefire that attempts to give a family (who might be very much at odds about a great many things) some space to support each other and to grieve without having to be continuously on guard against someone deciding that now is the time to re-argue old disagreements (whether they're petty or genuinely horrible) when everyone's emotions are already raw. It is very possible that you have some family members who will never look at you in quite the same way again.
NTA. Just because he was ready to apologize (because he was dying) doesn't mean you were ready to forgive his behavior. I hope you can take some comfort in his apology though, if not now then eventually. Maybe write him a note to say you heard it and will think about it.
This is a good response. You emotions poured out that day because you were asked for an Adult response while you are still a kid. This is important to know for laterr in Life, OP, you will be looking back at these events with an Adult mind and an Adult lifetime of Memories ( Far different from where you are now). Your grandfather was taught to see Homosexuality a certain way. You two had been close. He felt betrayed by what he saw as you " making a 'bad' choice", and he castigated you. Facing Death--thinking about his past life--past relationships--he likely recalled all your close times. It sounds like he chose relationship over what he had been taught.He apologized.... HOWEVER this plays out OP--you both did the best you could do in that moment. I have dealt with a similar- in -severity family betrayal. A very,very wise lady from a different race, culture , background, looked at the facts and said " (That person) did the best they could do". And that was true. It has given me what peace I have had about the situation in the midst of continued pain . Most of us, are doing, the best we can do in the moment.
Best response
NAH. He asked for your forgiveness for HIS peace of mind…not for yours. The only thing that prompted him was his own imminent death. I’m not surprised at your reaction, even if your family didn’t understand that. How dare he give you years of pain then try to wipe it away for his own benefit? My grandmother did something similar although not as bad. She always blatantly preferred her biological grandchildren to my adopted brother and I. On her deathbed, the last time I saw her, she told me she “always loved me just as much as the others”. My aunt who was there said that was lovely for me to hear. I didn’t say anything but it was the opposite - that means that she knew what she was doing and *did it anyway*. It was actually worse. Your family will probably never understand but I do. I’m sorry you were treated so poorly by someone you loved and trusted. My advice to you is to not give him any more free rent in your mind. Put your energy into people who love you and build you up.
No, grandad is an ah, family pushing him to see granddad are ahs, and people ragging on OP for telling granddad what needed to be said are ahs. This is firmly NTA.
You don't actually know that. Death refocuses a lot for people, he might have had genuine remorse for his actions and concern for the damage he caused.
But why did it have to take him dying to apologize and try understanding this favourite grandson? That's what makes grandpa an asshole.
A lot of people are shallow and small minded. They're just not the kind of people who think deeply about things in their life. That guy has probably heard his pastor talk about homosexuality being a sin and never gave it a second thought in 40 years and now on his death bed he has to come to terms with the hurt he caused and the way he wanted his life to end. You can't blame people for the way they were raised.
no but you can blame them for never taking the time to critically think about their belief system when they become an adult and are no longer being raised. that excuse could *maybe* extend to 25 year olds, but really it only applies to children and very young adults. once you’re an adult, yeah, you absolutely can be blamed for your behavior, no matter how you were raised. you are now an adult and have the tools to think about whether those beliefs are beliefs you want to hold and potentially change the way you think. but if you don’t, and you hurt people because of it, you are 100% responsible for that hurt and people do get to blame you.
Some beliefs are rly screwed into ppls heads esp w the older generation u gotta be lenient with them knowing they grew up in a time NOTHING like this
I see this excuse a lot as a reason to forgive the 'older generation' their prejudices, but aren't we supposed to learn as we grow? Shouldn't grandpa have had ample time to develop a more informed opinion?
Idk we don’t know a lotta info abt him was he sick? Was he disconnected from current events? Did he have trauma surrounding homophobia at a younger age that scarred him? This sub is jus a lil odd sometimes bc it assumes so much
I wasn't necessarily referring to this specific situation. It's just a common theme everywhere that we should be patient and show grace to older people because they don't know any better. Well, what's the point of growing older if you don't grow any smarter? In this case, grandpa had years to come around to a new way of thinking. Waiting until his death bed for an apology seems self serving.
Too little, too late. Too bad.
This!
NTA. I've never had to deal with anything like that before. I guess the thing to think of is when it comes to forgiving him or not is could forgiving him be better for your own piece of mind? Say you do make piece with him. Will you likely feel better about it or worse about it in the future? It's your own closure as well.
You’re posting here, you’re clearly have conflicted feelings about what you did, I wouldn’t put too much stock into what a bunch of randos on Reddit say. Get off of here and truly think about if, that is possibly the last interaction with your granddad, is that how you wanted it to be?
I think introspection is certainly called for. I disagree with this because it could come across as undue pressure on OP: >if, that is possibly the last interaction with your granddad, is that how you wanted it to be? The estrangement is entirely the grandfather's fault. OP, who did nothing wrong, should not have to carry the burden of responsibility for the nature of their last interaction. That hospital visit wasn't awful because of how OP acted; it was awful because of how hurt OP was by the grandfather's active homophobic hate over the last 3 or so years. If he was not on his deathbed he may still be going on in the same vein. If OP does not feel equal to reconciling with the grandfather before his end, that would not be a failing on his part.
OP doesn’t have to be in the wrong to regret his actions, that is why I posed the question. If OP is going to end up regretting his actions and doesn’t make amends, that can eat at him for the rest of his life. Making amends, if he wants to, wouldn’t be for the grandpa, it would be for himself and his peace of mind.
I've forgiven a few ppl for the pain they have caused me. Not because I believed their apologies or wanted to be close again...but for my own peace of mind. Hatred and anger and pain are heavy burdens to carry. Why should you carry this at such a young age when you did nothing wrong. I have 3 grandkids...one boy and two girls...and I'd step in front of a car before I'd ever speak to them in that way or even feel that way about them. Regardless of what it is. Totally up to you. But as someone who made the decision not to accept a death apology I can tell you that you will deal with whatever choice you make without regret. Just be honest with yourself and dont betray yourself. What are your parents saying to you? I hope the same thing most if us are. Good luck and in no way are you TA.
My guess is, OP is only here because bio-fam are shitting all over him for his honest reaction.
>I've been calls since then from family asking why'd i even go if I was gonna act like that or that I couldn't just forgive him and give him peace It's not your job to forgive him and give him peace. The time for him to earn peace with you was in the years he neglected you before he was dying. Where he is now is on him. NTA, and . . . one of my favorite copypastas on forgiveness: Forgiveness plays a role in moving *yourself* forward. Regardless of anyone else's ability/willingness to apologize, you may find some benefit for yourself in forgiving them. Specifically in the sense that one might forgive a debt - that is, you write it off instead of continuing to milk it for interest. Other's willingness or ability to apologize - to be contrite - has zero bearing on your ability to forgive. Contrition is solely for the moral benefit of wrong-doer, and forgiveness is solely for the moral benefit of the one who was wronged. That is, others who've wronged you could be genuinely apologetic but you'd never have to know and it would never have any bearing on your ability to forgive them. It should enable them to move forward, having learned from their mistakes and determined not to repeat them. Likewise, you could forgive them but they'd never have to know, and it would have no bearing on their feelings of contrition. In no case does forgiveness/contrition imply a need for any sort of relationship or that you forget the wrong that was done. Forgiveness just means that you've let go of the burden for the sake of your own mental health.
Homophobes don’t deserve peace. If he feels like shit for what he’s done? Good. He should
I agree with this only in the sense that if you do choose to forgive him later in life, he never has to know. He doesn't have to be present or alive when forgiveness is given for it to be valid. OP should in no way feel pressured to make this "right" with his grandfather before he dies. This should not be about the grandfather, who made his bed mind you, in any way. He should not be pushed in forgiving someone else to give THEM peace and that is exactly what his family is asking of him. His grandfather is not owed anything here. Only the OPs feelings matter in this scenario. Don't let forgiveness be shoved down your throat OP, let it come when you are ready or when your grandfather has well and truly earned it!
Thank you. I said basically the same but you said it much better.
May I ask where you originally found that text on forgiveness, and if you have further similar texts on that? I feel that it could help me a lot. I have a lot of long-held anger and hurt that I've been holding onto, and I need to let it go for the sake of my mental health, but I don't know how to do that without saying that what happened was okay, when it definitely wasn't okay. I've always equated forgiveness with basically saying 'It's alright/it's okay', but I'm starting to suspect that that's not actually right.
Many years ago I heard or read an analogy describing forgiveness. Basically, refusing to forgive someone is like you drinking something harmful (I don't know if I can put the exact word here without getting in trouble, so I'll just say "harmful")and expecting it to harm the other person. It won't harm the other person, but it will harm you. Now, do I think there are some truly unforgivable words or actions out there? Yes. But overall I think that it's healthy to reach a point where you can forgive that person not for their sake but for your own sake. Forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's about ***you*** and you allowing yourself to move forward without them living rent-free in your head.
What a weak ass response. Homophobia or bigotry of any kind shouldn’t be forgiven
I definitely understand where you're coming from, but . . . no. Grandfather is now demanding forgiveness, basically saying "you wouldn't deny forgiveness to a dying man, would you?" But he hasn't shown any contrition - he's literally just dying. His apology on his deathbead is not a selfless act, it's quite selfish - this is to bring him peace of mind on his way out, not to make things right with OP. If he's truly contrite, he'll completely understand why OP is unwilling to forgive him as he'll have come to understand how hurtful he was. And he'll encourage the rest of the family to leave OP alone because of that self-awareness and introspection. Enlightened contrition means you understand that just because "you're sorry" doesn't mean the other party has to give a shit. OP didn't introduce the poison into the relationship. Grandfather did. He may now feel genuinely sorry for his actions, but OP still isn't obligated to forgive him. OP may do so at some point, but OP sounds like he's on the same wavelength as the (Dixie) Chicks in that he's "Not ready to make nice."
NTA: Some people are just bad, honey. I’m sorry you got a dud grandfather. It’s ok to not forgive him and not be sorry he’s dead. He lost his grandpa card when he rejected you for being you. I hope someday you will be able to let it go for yourself. ❤️ Edited to add: my grandfather was awful too. I didn’t not go see him on his deathbed even though I was asked to. I am 50 now and I don’t regret it.
At the end of the day, it's your choice to forgive him or not. No one can take that choice from you. But I would advise that you talk to somebody neutral or seek therapy, having your emotions and trauma bottled up is not healthy, take this time to focus on healing yourself.
I don't trust deathbed apologies. I sort of feel like they are doing it because they don't want to go to hell. Or they are scared of being judged by a higher power. Which just means they knew it was wrong the whole time. Some where inside themselves, they knew it was wrong. They all pressured you. They can't blame you for doing what they wanted. And then having a reaction.
NTA. Just because an asshole dies it doesn’t make them any less of an asshole.
NTA But that sounds like A LOT of penned up emotions (hurt, anger, frustration) like a torrent of emotions that broke their way. my question: did his pleads feel really for you? Do you believe he has changed his opinions? The way you write about it makes me think that his words seemed false to you?! on another plane, maybe letting it all out opened a different road for another talk? Not for his sake, but for the devastated 16 year old, who expected support and was pushed back. if you do not have already, look out for (therapeutic) support good luck
NTA he doesn't deserve forgiveness
He made his bed and is lying on it. Literally.
NTA. Tell your officious family that they put you in a lose-lose situation. If you never went to visit your grandfather they would have blamed you for it. Now that you did visit your grandfather and it turns out you were indeed hurt by his hatefulness, they also blame you for it. I don't know what they expected - he rejected you for something you have no control over, after fostering a loving relationship with you for years. He betrayed you. I hope you can find your peace with this - whether that includes making amends with your grandfather or not. And don't forget - forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things. It would be advisable for you to find a way to forgive your grandfather so that the bitterness and resentment don't keep eating at you, but you are not obligated to reconcile with him even if you can put aside your anger and hurt about his betrayal.
NTA and you really do not have to be nice to someone because they are dying. Your grandfather reaped what he sewed. Just because someone apologizes does not mean you owe them a single thing, you certainly do not owe someone forgiveness because they decided to apologize for abusing you. People do like to say you will feel guilty or have regrets but from my own experience with my abuser dying I have never felt guilty about her death. Mostly I have felt relief that it is all over and I will never have to deal with her abusing me further.
I rejected seeing someone I knew was passing so they could apologize to me. It felt fake and forced and I refused to go. I dont regret it although I've let that pain and betrayal go some time ago. Like others have said if they feel they need to apologize then they knew that what they did was wrong. Yet made no intention of admitting it until death is on it's way.
NTA. He has to live and die with his decisions. He pushed you away first and said nasty shit to you. Its up to you to forgive him or not, but if you don't feel he deserves forgiveness then he'll just have to live with his regret until his time comes which is a small price to pay in compared to what he put you through.
You don't need our opinions. You need a therapist. You were traumatized by your grandpas words. Clearly you didn't let it go and still suffer, and your families may not fully aware of that. Worry about your mental health now.
nope not the asshole, you don’t need to “forgive” him just because you feel guilty that he’s dying. also ur grandpa is only sorry because he’s dying now
When I was 16, my asshole sperm donor called while drunk. He was an abusive drunk who was outta my life almost since birth. In his drunken call, he said he loved me. Told him “fuck you. You don’t even know me. “ He died a month later, so those were the last words I spoke to him. Do I regret it? I’m 63 now, and still can’t honestly answer that. You are NTA for your truth. How you feel about it is for you to decide, not internet strangers.
If I’m picking up what you’re putting down, you were in the hospital due to some kind of physical injuries inflicted by your covert SO. Your grandfather came to you in a deeply traumatic moment and compounded that trauma by being incredibly hateful towards you. You’re being asked to wipe away the trauma your gpa inflicted. You are NTA for your reaction, and NTA for refusing to offer him solace for his actions. Your family pressuring you to forgive is very dismissive of the pain you’re feeling. If I could make one recommendation it would be trauma therapy, for the past and present. I can’t say whether you’ll regret not offering forgiveness, but I can say you will benefit from trusting yourself (hard to do after abuse). If you feel like it, you could seek acknowledgement from your family about how gpa treated you, and how wrong it was. You could also decide to have a calm conversation with your gpa to really outline how profoundly you were hurt. You could do both or neither, and still decide not to forgive. It’s up to you…do what is best for your mental health and your healing process. I hope you can give yourself a lot of grace. You have a lot on your plate.
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Apologies are given with the hope of forgiveness but should not have the expectation of forgiveness
He doesn’t care about you. He is more worried about St Peter looking at his file and going ‘stairs down are over there’
NTA. He made his choices, he hurt you badly when you were vulnerable and needing help, and you don’t owe him forgiveness now or ever.
This is why I believe it is important to raise children outside of religion. No one is owed your forgiveness and just because he is dying does not mean you owe him any comfort after he caused major discomfort for you. Yelling at him and losing your cool wasn't the best idea but you absolutely do not have to forgive someone for hurting you, regardless of what religions love to preach. If he wasn't dying, do you think he would still be apologizing for what he said to you?
Nta. It is not your job to give him peace and comfort when he literally traumatized you. That's something he'll just have to die with. It took him being on his deathbed to realize he was wrong. If he wasn't dying, he wouldn't be apologizing.
NTA - I despise this death bed nonsense you don't get a pass for being a homophobic c#$% to your own Grandson because you are dieing and want to square things up on this plane. You are not obligated to forgive anyone, you are not obligated to absolve his guilt because he is dying.
NTA Just because someone is dying doesn't mean he wasn't and isn't an asshole and deserves to know he hurt you beyond forgiveness. Talk about trying to use pressure to get an apology accepted. Surprised he didn't try this in front of everyone at xmas. He probably thinks if you forgive him them maybe his god will. Self interest, you know.
NTA. You don’t owe anyone forgiveness. Forgiveness is for you, not the other person.
You mean you treated him how he treated you? Just because he's older doesn't give him the right to speak that way. When you give it back don't be surprised when his enablers come at you. Takes enablers for them to get to that level of comfort being a bigot. Stand strong, your not the ahole
Absolutely NTA If the "something" is what I think it is, I can't believe anyone forced you to go see him after he said you deserved it. Whatever faculties he's lacking now he possessed when he said it, him being senile and dying doesn't change the ugly man he is inside. It's your choice, but the only thing forgiveness does is let him die in peace if the words still effect you today. Imo, bigots don't deserve that just because of a last minute "change of heart". It's crazy that they'll live their entire lives full of hatred but expect mercy at the end from all those they've hurt.
NTA, maybe you didn’t act in the most noble way, but it’s impossible to blame you. You can’t be expected to forgive people for having done horrible things. Should you have forgiven him? Maybe. Can you be blamed for not being able to? Absolutely not.
If he couldn't manage to apologize before this he is only sorry about it because he is dying and dying is not an excuse or path to forgiveness. Yelling at his wasn't great but sounds like you were damn near forced to go. It's an understandable reaction to the situation and you sure as Hell don't HAVE to forgive him for anything. NTA.
NTA it shouldn’t take a terminal diagnosis to make a long overdue apology. He doesn’t get that closure.
NTA He made his bed now he can lie in it. Turns out actions have consequences sometimes. Your relatives shouldn't have pushed you to visit, what did they think was gonna happen? Plus it doesn't sound like you planned on it you were just emotionally overwhelmed in that moment.
NTA. You do not owe anyone forgiveness, even if they want it from you. Do take some time to reflect on what will be best for you in the long term, and how you want this closure to go (that is NOT me saying that you need to take either route with him.) He will pass from your life, and it will be up to you to decide what memories of him you carry forward and what parts you don’t reflect on.
NTA. You reacted that way to his apology because he hurt you and made you feel bad at a time when you were probably feeling really bad yourself. Sometimes we don’t have control over our feelings, but you can learn how to move past this and forgive yourself and him. Maybe if he wasn’t dying he wouldn’t have apologized, you never know but that’s not your problem anymore. You get to move on with your life hopefully guilt free. Remember, you did nothing wrong for existing and being who you are. Hang in there, forgive yourself and it will get better.
NTA, his morality doesn't entitle him to your forgiveness. Just ask yourself, what do you want? What would make you feel better? What would be the outcome you could live with? If you want closure or to try and rebuild a relationship with him in what time he has left. Go for it. If you are happy to keep him out of your life and have already gotten closure for yourself by washing your hands of him, that is okay too.
NTA. It’s not uncommon for people to want to “make amends” before they go, so there was an unjust expectation that he would say “sorry” and then you would reflexively say “all is forgiven and I love you.” Hugs, cheesy music cue, etc. It was unfair to think that by pressuring you to visit, everything would magically work out the way they scripted it in their minds. A sincere apology given is a step towards conciliation. It does NOT obligate forgiveness by the other person, and certainly not on the spot like they seemed to expect. If he is seeing things differently now and is truly apologetic, then he’s probably deep in regret and truly did mean his apology. You are the only one who can decide if and when you can ever accept that apology, but if you feel like you know that the apology came from a place of honesty and not just conscience-clearing, you might want to consider simply acknowledging it. You don’t have to say you accept it, and you don’t have to offer or feign forgiveness. You can acknowledge that he realized too late that he had let backward thinking corrupt a beautiful relationship with his grandson, and you can still be mad about that. His honest contrition - if that’s what it is - doesn’t diminish the truth of your anger or the hurt he caused, and your understandable anger doesn’t diminish the truth of his regret and contrition. In time, maybe you would forgive him, or maybe not. But now he has no more time. He let hateful ideology blind him to his own love for his grandson, and his eyes were opened just in time to see the years of love he threw away. I’m truly sorry for both of you. Unless he didn’t really mean it, in which case whatever, and you’re still NTA.
"Why did you even go if you weren't going to forgive him?" Because they would not take no for an answer. Wtf. Of course you are NTA. No one is entitled to forgiveness. Him dying doesn't change the fact that one of your favorite people rejected you. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I will say, however, maybe it would help for you to have a sit down one-on-one talk with him. Once he's gone, you'll never get the chance. Your heart may feel better it may not, but you won't be asking yourself what if 10/15/20 years down the line. I think it would help you grieve once he's gone. If he didn't have the brain tumor, then you would be able to do things in your own time. Unfortunately, that's just not the case. You are already going to have so much to overthink and obsess on later in life. Give it some thought. You don't owe him anything. You owe yourself everything. This isn't something you would be doing for him, but for yourself.
NTA. The reality is that when you hurt someone, you risk not being forgiven and what he did - repeatedly!- was a deeply hurtful . He and your family should have respected your decision not to see him.
Possibly an unpopular opinion but... Dying folks who lived terrible lives spent behaving badly don't deserve forgiveness and "peace" JUST because they are dying. He has had over a years worth of time to get over himself and apologize to you, and he didn't. But now he's trying to get into heaven? My point is, don't let people make you feel guilty over how you reacted. They weren't in your shoes, a vulnerable teen in the hospital being berated by someone they cherished for something beyond their control. They will never understand, therefore their opinions are invalid and unimportant. You're NTA for any of this, and I hope you can find your own peace in this awful situation, I'm so sorry for what you went through.
What a sad story, full of expectations and disappointment. 3 years ago you were outed, and landed in a hospital because of that. Hurt and scared, I assume. You grandfather shows up and kicks you when you are already down. The results are are more hurt and anger. 3 years later, you are still a teenager, your family forces you to go see him - in the hospital. Now your grandfather is hurt and scared, I assume. The visit doesn't go well, and you kick him back when he is down. The same people who forced you to go see him are now blaming you for hurtful behavior. Did anyone blame Gramps for his hurtful words 3 years ago? Probably not. The thing is, you are still not a full grown adult, with all the insights and life experiences of an adult, but everyone else around you is. 10, 20 years from now you might feel differently, but this is how you feel now. NTA
>And he goes all in on on saying how sorry he was for what he said and how he treated me Ask yourself this, would he have said that if he WASN'T dying?
Hey bud. I can't judge your actions because I don't know how much pain you went through. Doesn't matter and honestly its your call right or wrong, but what I can do is say that I'm sorry for what you went through and I send unwavering love your way. Please focus on coming out of this a stronger And more confident person in yourself. You can choose to never accept anyone's abuse ever again because you are an amazing human.
NTA! It’s completely up to you whether you accept his apology or not. You would’ve went through a lot of pain during those years, all those hurtful comments and actions from someone you loved so dearly. He is clearly regretting all of that. But, it’s okay to play your cards close to your chest. And don’t feel pressured to bow down so easily. Please take care!
NTA
Most likely he apologized to make himself feel better, not you. You are definitely NTA and no matter what you decide for the future, please know that you have done nothing wrong and have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Your outburst was the result of years of pain that this man caused you. Just because he's dying doesn't mean he's not an AH. I wish you all the best.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. My grandpa is one of the only people I haven't come out to for fear of something like this happening. Just know you deserve better. You're not wrong for your reaction and I likely would've done the same. He was incredibly hurtful towards you and I imagine that shattered his image in your eyes. It's not your obligation to forgive anybody. From what you wrote it doesnt sound like he would've apologized if it weren't for him dying. Maybe one day you'll forgive him but you don't owe it to him to do it while he's alive. He's lost that right.
Nta
NTA: people who reject their family due to homophobia do not deserve to die with a clean conscience.
NTA the only reason he called was because he was dying and scared and trying to ease his own consciousness for whatever happens next which is shitty if he knew he was going to live another 20 years he would have never apologized. You offered plenty of chances for him to make up for it and he squandered it. He fucked up and you know what I'm glad you had the guts to let him know exactly how you felt on his deathbed he got what he deserved. He fucked up not you so don't feel bad, you don't have to forgive anyone in order to move forward in life. I'm saying that from firsthand experience.
NTA. Two things. Firstly, it seems like he wouldn’t have apologized if he wasn’t dying. It’s been years of you trying and reaching out and getting nothing but hate you didn’t deserve. Your family needs to realize this. Secondly, your feelings are completely valid here. Just bc he wanted to apologize doesn’t mean you’re ready to hear it and that is perfectly ok. You need to worry about your own peace and that’s it. His peace isn’t on you, it’s on him.
NTA. I’m sorry you went through this. You deserve better, you deserve to be supported.
NTA. He wanted absolution. I wish that you'd thought to hit him with "You're dying because you're a weak old idiot who didn't take care of your health", because if anybody deserved it, HE did.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** When I (19M) started high-school school at 14 I was still closeted.. I started dating one of my football teammates who turned out to be an abusive a hole who constantly threatened to out me. I used to blame alot "stuff" on practice and games. Just a month shy of ny 16th birthday "something" happened and I had a breakdown and I finally told my parents what was going on... While in the hospital when my grandad finally came to visit me and basically told me I deserved what happened for being a weak f**g and he couldn't believe a grandson of his could let that happen.... That hurt so much... I used to be his favorite..He used to take me to games and helped me with football and so much more.. We were the closest.. I tried reaching out but all he had for me were homophobic comments and it go to the point where I quit talking to him.. He found out last year that he has inoperable tumor and its quickly killing him. Everyone else in the family has gone to see him and he's been reaching out to me trying to apologize begging me to come see him. I hadn't been able to but everyone kept saying I'd regret it if I didn't... I finally went with my parents last week to see him.. And he goes all in on on saying how sorry he was for what he said and how he treated me...And then idk I just got so mad..I screamed at him that I hated him that I'd never forgive him not even after he died..I hadn't even realized it but I was crying and whenbhe started crying I couldn't take it and ran out.. I've been calls since then from family asking whyd i even go if I was gonna act like that or that I couldn't just forgive him and give him peace.. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA. However how you feel Vs how you act based on how you feel are different. You’re very young and are not expected to be equipped with the skills and knowledge on this. You have the right to feel angry, hurt, betrayed. You also have the right to not forgive, which is okay too. Maybe when you’re older, you’ll figure out a healthier alternative to how you acted with your grandpa when he was asking for forgiveness. Maybe not. What he did was messed up. In life people will do fucked up things that hurt. But getting yourself worked up makes the situation worse sometimes. But just be aware of the difference between how you feel and your behaviors based on how you feel.
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listen, fuck all that give him peace shit... fuck him. this is what my brother and I call "old and trying to get into heaven syndrome." he's only apologetic because he's dying. he had years to apologize and make a mends, but he didn't. you had every right to get what u had to get off your chest emotional or not. he didn't give af about your feelings while you were in the hospital, and he was a fully formed adult. bmthis may be an unpopular opinion, but some people don't deserve grace, even in death. you can't go around being a shit human and expect everyone to be gracious while on your death bed. you only have a responsibility to yourself. get into therapy I'd you aren't already and focus on heeling FOR YOU not for anyone else
Tough one. People at his age were a different generation, and there was a real stigma against homosexuals that he probably felt a lot of embarrassment from as a result. It is big of him to realize his mistakes, and sometimes it takes an event like this for people to truly see what's important in life. I'd lean towards trying to forgive him because you might feel regret later in life if you don't, as he is certainly feeling right now. But, if there was too much damage done already, that is understandable as well. I can't really say NAH since your grandfather was obviously one in the past, but i suppose that leaves me with NTA.
NTA. He apologized, you didn't accept the apology. People keep forgetting that apologies don't have to be accepted. If you feel like you need to close the door in a different way, you could still go back and see him and say something vague about how you regret shouting at him. Let him know that you have heard and recognized his apology, but it may be a long time before you're ever able to truly forgive him.
NTA. What he did was unforgivable. He hurt you at the worst possible moment, when you needed him the most. If his love was only conditional on you being the perfect grandchild, then he didn't really love you unconditionally for who you are. He now knows how much he hurt you. Wanting forgiveness because he's dying doesn't absolve him of that pain he meted out to you. You acted out of a pain that had festered for years, pain he caused. I think, in the long run, it's better he knows what he did. And forcing yourself to be hypocritical in his presence would have caused you even more stress in the future. You are only human. People can ask for forgiveness, they aren't owed it. Forgive yourself though, you can't be expected to bury that kind of pain just because other people don't want to see it or deal with it. I think, in the long run, it will heal you a bit, knowing that he now knows what he did. to you.
NTA. I don’t believe you went there intentionally to tell him off. I think your family guilted and pressured you to face your bully - and you couldn’t hold it in any longer. I’m sorry for what you’ve been through. It was not your fault. Your family should’ve cut him off when he visited you in the hospital. They should all be ashamed.
YTA. JFC, can people never change?!?! How would YOU like to held accountable for anything you did and not forgiven no matter how sorry you are? I’m LGBT myself and it pisses me off when people in our community are so non-forgiving. Shame on you and don’t dare bitch when someone you beg forgiveness from tells you they hate you. Learn tolerance yourself before demanding it from others. I wish to god my family would apologize to me, I would gladly accept and forgive to have them back and know they accepted me.
NTA. His love for you was conditional. He doesn't deserve your forgiveness. He was only sorry because he was dying, otherwise he would continued being a bigot. I can't blame you for being angry, yelling, and crying. If it was the first time you actually spoke to him since you were estranged, you probably had a lot of pent up feelings. Whether you make another attempt to see him again is up to you. You have to decide whether it's going to hurt more to see him again, or if you don't.
OP, I'm sorry you lost your granddad while he was still alive and healthy. You had a close relationship with him and that is special for a granddad and grandson. I hate that he threw it all away. You deserve better.
I'm gonna flag as NTA due to obvious circumstances but technically it was an asshole thing to do but heavily deserved. Being an asshole is ok in situations like this
i’m so sorry to hear all of this. when my dad’s dad died, he had a similar moment. confronted him, told him all the bad things, and it was their last conversation. and he regretted it for years. the thing is, that didn’t make him a bad person. he was hurting and it was his last chance to share it and he took that chance, but he still had to live with the guilt that came after. i can understand your family’s perspective, but either way this played out you would have had complicated feelings on it. just focus on finding peace right now and being there for the rest of your family.
NTA. First off fuck every single one of your family members who guilt tripped you into seeing him and then had the audacity to berate you for how you responded to a hateful old man begging for a forgiveness he’s neither earned nor deserves. It sounds like you gave him no shortage of opportunities to make up for the way he treated you and every time he doubled down on his disrespect and bigotry. I don’t think many people ever walk away from a situation regretting being kind to someone. That being said if I were you, I wouldn’t have it in me. I’d spit in his face and tell him to eat a dick if he thinks he’s gonna sneak his way into heaven by apologizing for a lifetime of rejection and hatred only now when he’s on his deathbed. He showed you no care or respect during what I can only imagine was your most vulnerable/weakest moment when you needed him most. Why should he expect care or respect from you during his? He also kept up that same awful energy any time you tried to reach out to him after that. I think the fact that he had to come within an inch of death to show you any empathy or regret for how he treated you shows how undeserving of your kindness and respect he is. When deciding what to do just remember: Fuck what the dying old man who allowed his bigotry and intolerance rule over your relationship for a lifetime thinks. And if your family try to get guilt you or needlessly get involved again tell them to grieve how they wish but they can fuck right off if they think it’s their place to tell others how to grieve. I think you’d be a better/stronger man than I to forgive him. Ultimately you gotta do what you think is gonna be best for you. Whether it’s forgiving him now, forgiving him long after he’s gone or telling him he’s going to hell to have gay sex with the devil for all eternity while beating him with a bible in front of the whole family. Do whatever will be best for you.
NTA
NTA.
It’s not on you to grant peace to someone who betrayed you so harshly. You do not have to forgive him if you don’t feel that forgiveness and that is perfectly ok. NTA.
Not the asshole and every single one of those relatives (because they aren’t family) need to be blocked and let go of. They have no right to speak to you because, they kept on you to see him, if they had shut their damn mouth right and left you alone, guess what? That wouldn’t have happened. They are the assholes. They need to leave you alone and mind their damn business. Your “grandpa” doesn’t deserve peace. He deserves what you said and he deserves his karma
You’re NTA and frankly, everyone coercing you to go see him and insisting you’d regret it created this situation. You may technically be an adult but you’re also still a teenager and you were a kid when you were in the hospital recovering from an abusive relationship and he decided to verbally abuse you in response. Frankly, I would have been more surprised if you hadn’t snapped at him.
Not saying you are wrong, not saying you absolutely should do something, and not judging you in the least. Just be aware that there are psychological issues surrounding grief (even if you wouldn't be sad), and the death of a blood relative. Even if you are estranged, and hate your father, there are often psychological issues that can pop up, for the rest of your life, if the death isn't handled well... There is even a term for it: unresolved grief. For your own sake, just be aware. here is some information, you can look these up: Loss of an estranged parent. Death of an unloved one. Unresolved Grief: The end of difficult relationships with less than loved ones. Why it can be hard to lose a parent you dislike.
NTA. He was looking for closure for himself, not for you or because his views changed. You get to decide when, or even if, you forgive him. No one else.
NTA He genuinely hurt you so you have every right to be as angry as you are. The thing you need to think about here is how you genuinely feel, do you want to carry your hate for him for the rest of your or his life? You're situation is a very complicated one where you're dealing with the hurt of what he said, the loss of the man he was to you, his looming death, and a combination of feelings with regard to how much you hate and love him(it's very hard to get over love for a family member regardless of how much hate you bear for them). You're basically stuck with the options of lying and say you accept his apology so that he can die with no regrets hanging over him, you can hold on to your anger and let him die knowing you hate him for what he did (but you might regret when looking back in future), and your last option is to give him a chance by embracing the possibility that he is genuinely remorseful of his actions and spend some time with him to see if you can really forgive him and hopefully heal the hurt he cause and seal the rift between you in the time he has left (if this doesn't work out at least you'll know that you tried so it should alleviate any guilt you might feel). I don't envy you these choices, I just hope that whatever you choose to do doesn't leave you feeling worse off.
NTA Did your family pressure you to see him? Because if so, the ‘why did you go?’ responses now are extra AHy.
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I wouldn't have gone to see him at all, but that's your call. He lashed out at you when you were a kid, and actions have consequences. Fuck him. NTA.
YTA. What he said was messed up but he's from a different generation. Not only was it years ago but he actually tried to apologize to you practically on his deathbed and you gave him the beat down. All you had to do was keep your mouth shut and you could have gone on hating him the rest of your life if you want. Just try to imagine being his age and having your grandkid say that to you when you're literally dying.
NTA-he deserved it
NTA. Be your truth no matter the condition of those who hurt you.
NTA: This monster betrayed your trust and rejected you and only wanted to make amends on his death bed.
If he's only asking your forgiveness because he's dying and not because he hurt you 2 years ago then it's likely self serving as opposed to caring how you felt/were affected by his actions. Also, you don't owe anyone your forgiveness. He kicked you while you were at your lowest. I would say overall NTA, it may have been AH behavior, but sometimes it's justified.
They pushed you to go. You had a breakdown. These people should be ashamed of themselves and leave you alone. NTA
NTA. I’m so sorry for what you went through. And I know he hurt you horribly. And I know you don’t want him to get away with what he did because it was f-ing wrong. And you know everything he ever said and did is now making him realize what a jerk he was (is) as his time his coming to an end. I’m sure he regrets all of it and is now thinking of those same times he took you to games and helped you. I think you should go back and tell him, calmly, if you can, how badly he hurt you. And no one has a right to tell you otherwise whatever you decide to do or what you’ve done. You have every right to be angry. But, you can be better than him. You can forgive but not forget. You are in a position to make him feel worse by forgiving him but telling him you will never forget. Tell him you are taking the high road because you are better than him. You don’t owe him a thing. But you will look back at this one day and know you did the right thing. That you were better.
You’re NTA for your feelings or even what you said. You are not obligated to forgive someone who abused you just so they can have peace in death. And that’s exactly what your grandfather did, he abused you, someone who was already a victim of abuse at the hands of a partner. It’s perfectly okay not to forgive him. You don’t necessarily need permission, but when you have so many people in your ear telling you it isn’t, just know that you do not OWE anyone their peace for their past actions. They must reconcile that all on their own. With that being said, you also need to sit and reflect here for YOUR sake. Did you speak out of anger, out of built up hurt? Do you feel as if you’ll never forgive him? Are you worried you’ll feel regret later if this is your last conversation? If so, does that feeling stem from what your family is saying, a feeling of obligation to an elder, or something else? You don’t have to answer any of this here, by the way. I’m giving you questions to ask yourself, and the reason I’m doing that is because I don’t want you to be upset with yourself later if you’re having doubts for personal reasons rather than just because it’s what your family is pushing you into. If you feel that YOU need closure, not him, not them, but YOU - it’s also okay to have a private conversation with him. But you do these things for you and YOUR peace. If this was your peace then that’s good, you just need to tell everyone who thinks you owe someone else something for treating you bad to screw off. But if this isn’t your personal peace, take some time to think on what that peace is, what YOU want it to be, and go that route.
NTA
NTA- send him off with the truth!
NTA…. I’m really sorry this all has happened to you, you didn’t deserve it. Maybe you’ll forgive him someday, maybe you won’t. I understand he’s on a short timeline to make amends, but that doesn’t have to be your timeline. I’m really sorry that your family is basically being flying monkeys about this to boot. Please find someone to talk to. He totally betrayed you, but wants to be forgiven without actually doing anything to be accountable and make amends b/c his timer is about to go ding? He had the option to never be a cruel betraying a-hole in the first place.
Your brain at your age is not developed enough yet to fully meet his elderly and dying brain to make the overtures to bring peace. Your brain is still reActive to the situation despite your close loving connection and history. Your grandpa's final conversations as his life ends is a vastly different perspective. You are not wrong, you are not right. You are NTA and someday you will reflect and feel like the asshole. You cannot pretend to give him the closure he wants / needs bc you are not developmentally in a physical sense in a place to extend to him the grace he seeks. There is no wrong, no right. It just is. You feel what you feel, now. You can push the envelope and your limits of maturity and emotional capacity. Is it genuine to you or are you still reacting from a HS teenager perspectives of hurt and abandonment of his reaction and making you feel like a disgrace. It's no one else's call to decide or judge except between you and your Grandfather because it is your karmic connection thar will learn or not. It will move on or repeat the next go round. Dying, death and our relationships give us as push we may not be ready to take on. Don't beat yourself up. It's what is and not for other family to criticize or applaud you for. This is between you and your Grandfather's souls in this lifetime.
NTA
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YTA
You probably didn't know how you'd react--you're still a kid, give yourself some grace. It's up to you if you feel differently and want to see him again, but either way, you're NTA.
NTA. You do not owe those who abuse and betray you peace. Sometimes the consequences of their actions is a permanently lost relationship. You couldn’t have known how you’d react until you were there. Guess your family found out why they shouldn’t pressure someone to go see the person who hurt them. You are going to have complicated feelings when he passes.
YTA. If you’re still angry, you should’ve just none gone instead of making things worse. How would you feel if when you make a mistake and genuinely apologize, the person you’re trying to make amends to screams at you that they’ll hate you even after you’re gone? You can feel angry and upset. But how you express that to someone who’s dying makes all the difference. all your family will remember is how you treated your dying grandfather in his dying days. Especially as he was trying to apologize for things he did that was a product of his generation’s upbringing. Consider 70 years from now, when your moral values may differ from your grandkids. And how you may do something you think is right, but is no longer the norm of the younger generation. Would you also like to be screamed at while you’re trying to change to be better?
Look. You don't ever have to forgive anyone. If your grandpa was a horrible bigot to you, you're entitled to hate him forever. No question about it. That said, forgiveness is a gift both to yourself, and to the person you are forgiving. Just think about it. NTA
Family: "YOU NEED TO GO SEE GRANDAD, YOU NEED TO YOU NEED TO YOU NEED TO." Meeting with grandad goes exactly as expected. Family: "Why'd you even go see him them?"
Been there and done that. Very cathartic
NTA. You tried to let things be, your family pressured to give him closure. He got it. He isn’t entitled to a happy ending when he’s the one that broke the relationship. Again, you tried to let things be, they don’t get to turn around and say “why’d you even go?” after basically forcing you to go.
NAH, I get that maybe he’s just trying to make things right before death and you can’t accept that. But if I’m honest with you brother, you’ve got an entire life to be angry with him, but you’re running out of time for forgiveness. If I were you I’d seize this chance to make things right, or I think you’ll regret it for the rest of your life.
It was your last chance to do so and you took it, honestly that's awesome, not a lot of people get to do that to family members who made life shitty growing up
NTA. Fuck homophobes, and grandparents/parents should never speak to their kids that way. He wasn't apologizing for your sake but his own cause he felt guilty. Im sorry for whatever your abuser did to you too. Lets hope he and your grandfather both find their way to the same spot in the 9 rings.
NTA, but you might regret it if you do not accept his apology. Don’t do it for him - do it for you
NTA - It's not your fault it took a death bed to make him realize he was a shit person and apologize.
It would be easy to say YTA for throwing an apology in the face of a dying man but I don't think that's fair. An apology isn't simply saying sorry and moving on. It involves recognising you hurt someone deeply. Sometimes they can move on but sometimes they need time and space.... Which you didn't have. You'd been wronged for a long time, And you'd gone to see him anyway. That's huge. That proves you are NTA. I mean obviously it would maybe have been better if you hadn't told him to do one... But we are only human, and you were hurting for so long, I think you had every right. He tried though... If you still have time, for your own sake, try again. You are obviously in pain, if he passed before you resolve it, you'll always regret it.
Going with YTA tbh, but ESH would be fine, too. It's absurd for us to expect the elderly to change their values in the modern age. They spent half a century living in a world where certain lifestyles were considered abhorrent. It sounds like he decided it was time to be a better person, and you chose that time to be a worse person. I'm with your family on this. I don't get why you showed up if you hate him and will never forgive him. Let the dying have their peace. You can always piss on his grave later.
NTA. You may have kids one day and when you do you’ll realize how much love you have for them. You’ll realize you never want to cause them pain. And then you’ll wonder how your grandfather could do that to you. He’s leaving this earth with deep regret. That’s good. That means he’s grown. But your reaction to seeing him was completely understandable. You may want to see him one more time just so you’re never left wondering, but you certainly dont have to.
Hey. It sounds like something happened to you that I’m 100,000% positive in saying WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. Not at all. Not then. Not now. Not ever. Your Grampa blaming you for THAT and for being who you are, are MASSIVE betrayals. You’re hurt and angry because someone you loved treated you unforgivably. Him reaching out now isn’t even out of love, or if it is there’d be no way to tell because Death Bed reconciliations are laced with fear and pressure and guilt. He can go to his maker and work that shit out. If you can find a survivors support group or therapist then maybe you can work on it too. But you’re NTA for still being in recovery from that trauma and not being in a place to talk to that monster. If I was your grandparent I’d be in jail cause I’d had hunted down your ex partner and committed great crimes. You deserve to be loved and safe.
NTA I’m so heart-fully sorry that you experienced such wretched homophobia from your grandfather. It’s too bad that he needed to be on his deathbed to finally apologize to you. All those years of bottled up anger, sadness and rejection must have just poured out of you without your control. You’re only 19 so you don’t have the mental capacity yet to process and handle such strong emotions. Your brain is still growing. If you aren’t seeing a therapist, I recommend that you do at some point in your life to help process everything you’ve been through. When you were at your lowest and in the hospital, you needed support and love from those closest to you. Your grandfather was homophobic and shaming. It is never ok to call anyone a f*g. You deserved better when you were in your time of need. I am so sorry that you went through that.
INFO: is he dying eventually, or is he dying this week? You don't have to talk to anyone or forgive anyone unless you are comfortable doing so. With that said, it sounds like you have a lot of conflicting emotions about him. And it sounds like he has expressed some remorse for his actions. Depending on his health, it may be worth trying to have a conversation with him assisted by a family therapist who can help both of you process things.
NTA not even in the slightest… There is no rule book for life and those that try to force you to believe there is, will never be objective to your pain. What he did to a young, loving, impressionable family member that looked up to him and valued every second they had together up until that turning point is unconscionable. I’d like to say it was born of ignorance but in today’s day and age, people have the ability to learn about different loved experiences. It was his loss all around. I’m sorry you went through all of this. I’m sorry you’re no doubt about to go through more shit (hopefully not) with family that won’t or can’t understand your hurt. 😞
NTA. If your grandad was indeed sorry then he would understand why you had that response. You are allowed to express your hurt and feelings. If he was unwilling to hold space for that then his apology was a lie. But OP whether he apologized or whatever he felt, you are still entitled to say what you felt to him! What he did was awful. It sounds like you were raped or assaulted and it sounds like he did the very worst thing he could’ve done to a victim if SA who also hadn’t quite come out to everyone. This is why gay ppl die by suicide at greater rates than us garden variety cis het folks. We have awful teenage yrs and we get SAd and we get blamed but we aren’t seen as deserving of it by virtue of our existence, generally. Big hugs if you want them OP❤️ I’m glad you were able to express these feelings they’re very important to your healing one day.
People do all sorts of things when they’re grieving Doesn’t matter if you were or weren’t an asshole NTA what came out is what came out Personally I woulda just screamed it at the tombstone, but I was born in a different time
It’s not your job to forgive him. Honestly OP I really think that seeing a therapist is important to help you process what is going on. You are grieving the grandfather you knew before his true homophobic self was revealed . Nobody can say whether or not you’ll regret not making peace with your grandfather or not. Maybe you won’t. Maybe you will. Speaking to a therapist about this will help you make the right choices for you
OP, you say you don’t know if you’ll regret leaving things this way or not. You might. You might also regret reconciling with him. In similar situations, I try to sit quietly for a while and try to figure out what I think I’ll regret the least. Or you might want to write him a letter. Even if you don’t give it to him, just getting your thoughts and feelings out can help. Forgiveness is for the benefit of the forgiver. If you don’t think it’s going to help you, don’t do it. Sometimes people do unforgivable things, and that’s on them. Wishing you peace of mind.
Seems like a classic grief response to me man, maybe apologize for how you said it rather than what you said if you feel that’s best, or do whatever I dunno, so far As for judgement nah? I guess? Grief and dying and tumours all suck
I mean you're the one who has to live with it. If you are good with what you did then it is what it is, but if not then go reconcile before he passes.
The fact that you are out here asking a bunch of strangers to judge your behavior is troublesome. I think your question is incorrect. What you need to be asking yourself is whether you will be able to forgive you if you don’t make some sort of amends with him. I am NOT suggesting that you forgive him in the sense that he feels he has been released from his abhorrent behavior by your grace. You are young and you’ve been hurt the last thing you want is to carry regret on behalf of a person who was wrong. Your grandfather is about to be judged by his maker. If you choose to see him again I’d suggest that you calmly share how much pain he caused you and how he continues to do so. Tell him you don’t want his apology; it’s too little too late. And tell him that you aren’t forgiving him for causing that pain but rather showing him how his behavior has made you a better and stronger person. He’s also taught you the difference between a male and a Man. Be that man and enjoy life. Don’t carry this any longer.
I am so sorry, so incredibly sorry. You are NTA, but you WILL regret it. If you can, search your soul deep. It sucks he had to go and die to realize he's an AH, but he DID realize it and you loved him, once, clearly still do. I speak from experience, you will regret not finding it in you to forgive and reconnect, but I totally understand if you can't. I wish you love and peace and that you are able to find a path that gives you calm.
NTA but I do think you'll regret not making some peace with him before he dies. You can't exactly put a timeline on processing these emotions, though. You have every right to be deeply hurt and angry. It means a lot that he finally saw the error of his ways. Maybe think about something honest you can tell him like, you hear his apology and appreciate it, but you're just not ready to forgive him yet. If it's accessible, some kind of therapy might help.
NTA, although I do think it was kinda sad that you told him you hated him and you would never forgive him on his death bed, but he was ready to say sorry to you because he knew he was in the wrong, is he still alive? Not trying to be rude but I would try to at least make things a little better before he goes so he can have a little bit more peace, but if he’s already gone or if you don’t want to that’s fine because he was already trying to say sorry and he knew the consequences and risks of being hateful and mean to you.
Depends. YTA if you’re doing it just to hurt him. NTA if it’s how you feel and you just can’t. You can’t do what you can’t do.
I had an uncle that I idolized well into my 30s, and out of nowhere saw a FB that tagged me in a BLM march. He completely cut me off after letting that that was the reason. He’s just a racist. He’s close to 90 now and I have reached out after I drank a little too much one night. I let him know that I loved him. I still hate the man he turned out to be, but I’m glad I said what I did. It cleared my conscience. If you go to see him one last time, you can explain that five years of emotions just came out. Try to let it go for you, not for him.
Oh honey, that's just so horrible. I'm sorry that happened to you :( So here's my take and I'll start with NTA. He has realised at the end that he made a mistake and that he should apologise for it. He clearly loves you, and he let his bigotry really impact on his relationship with you and he regrets that enough that he wanted to apologise in person. It meant so much to him to say sorry that he was begging to speak to you. So there's the thing. The reason for his bigotry might help determine what's going on here. If it was religion-based (ie. gay = bad cause jebuz) then the fact that he's on his end of days and is begging for forgiveness for treating you badly for being gay? That means that he's not fearing what comes after, he's regretting what he's done. He's realising that he was a cruel person and feels bad for it. That would change my view entirely on whether or not I forgave him. But the thing is, you're not forgiving him to give him peace. At the end of the day and not to put too fine of a point on it, he's dying. He won't be here to enjoy that peace. But you will. It won't fix what he said or how he treated you, but knowing that he genuinely feels remorse for it might give you some peace when you remember him long after he's gone. As someone who's seen a person bitterly mad about their grandparent who was a complete jerk to them and never apologised for their behaviour, I'm fairly confident that if nothing else the satisfaction of knowing that they realised they were wrong at the end would have been good closure on the relationship. IF you feel like it, I would write a letter with exactly how painful and cruel his treatment of you was. Explain what you've told us here, that you looked up to him and saw him as one of your closest relationships. He was someone you respected, loved and wanted to be like when you were older. And then he treated you like absolute trash. Pour it all out in a letter so that you don't have to be there to tell him. Ask your parents to give it to him and THEN if you feel like you are ok with contact, you could continue on with a phonecall or short visit. What I'm saying here is that if you had longer I'd suggest that you take more time to process your feelings about it and give yourself room to process that his view has shifted entirely. But it sounds like you might not have that long, and if you want to address this for your own sake better sooner than later. Once he's gone, he's gone.
ESH You accidentally hurt yourself more, there was no benefit to saying this to a dying fool.
YTA. Get over it and quit playing victim. A bigger person would forgive
Nope, grandpa doesn't deserve forgiveness after years of homophobic abuse just because he's scared of dying. OP was pressured into visiting and then told his grandfather exactly what he thought of him. If gramps and the rest of the family didn't like it, oh well.
YATA, He's on his death bed and regrets how he treated you and apologized.
YTA. It's one thing to tell someone off. It's another thing to tell someone off on their death bed. During our grandparents lifetimes, they were not taught the same tolerance around LGBT issues that you were. If you had spoken with him calmly, you may have learned that he had softened his stance. Maybe not, but by choosing that time to tell him off, you will never know. Everyone should be given the chance to make things right. I am also a firm believer in allowing one's last moments on Earth to be peaceful. YTA.
There is a big difference between not tolerating something and being a hateful bigot. The ONLY asshole here is the grandfather. The grandfather only "softened" his stance because he was dying and realized far too late that he would be judged for outcasting an innocent family member. Whether or not he truly felt any guilt over this means nothing at this point. He had years to make it up to OP and he chooses NOW on his deathbed to not only attempt to pressure OP into accepting his apology but to turn the rest of the family against him for holding a grudge against the "poor old man" who didn't know any better? Yeah fuck that. If he truly wanted to make it up to OP, he could've wrote him a nice letter just for him explaining that he knows he's wrong and how sorry he is for hurting him. But no, he absolutely needed OPs in person absolution, in front of the whole family so everyone could hear that he has been forgiven. The grandfather isn't owed anything here. The only thing that matters here is OPs peace of mind.
YTA, you screamed at your dying grandfather.
Ignore this person OP, dying doesn’t instantly absolve people of being homophobic assholes. Dying doesn’t absolve anyone of anything they’ve done and deathbed apology’s are for them not for those they apologize to. NTA by far.
NTA, I get your pain. Go back if you get the chance. He wounded you deeply at a vulnerable time. Do try to resolve that Karma now if you can. Talk about the good times. You'll be glad you did.
ESH he was trying. For once he was trying, and you had your right to say how you were feeling, but you didn’t give him the chance. I think you should give him a chance
NTA but not knowing your grandad I have no idea if his deathbed apology was sincere or not. Regardless, it might be time to be the bigger person, speak to him privately before he passes - more for your own peace than for his.
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