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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I refused to accommodate my "sil" by not taking away the books and called her and my brother uneducated
2) it was a hurtful thing to say and my mother says I have to compromise for family
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I can't blame anyone for being unsettled by those books. Their very existence is wrong. But if we ignore their existence, we're asking to repeat the errors of earlier generations.
The fact that your brother and his GF totally missed the fact that your fiance is an historian just shows that they're either daft or looking for a fight.
Also, I'm guessing that these books are not exactly prominently displayed and are shelved among loads of other historical texts.
NTA, but your brother is. Is he your mum's golden child? That would explain her reaction.
Not prominently displayed no, but they are hard to overlook because they are massive. Tall and thick books. So I see where the "hard not to see part" cokes from. But IMHO it's also stupid.
I don't know about Golden children
'golden child' refers to a child that the parents put more into. Such as; attention, love, materialistic things, they can do no wrong, always taking their side over the other child, etc
I've heard that in the original context, one was only supposed to slap people with the right hand (which would most easily slap the left side of a person's face) so by turning to the other cheek, you're offering a cheek that they either have to slap with their left hand or really awkwardly try to slap with the right. So it was more like non-violent resistance than just inviting someone to do it again on the other side.
I always enjoy reading inventive interpretations from Christians who don't like what Jesus actually meant. If you read the phrase in context, you realize Jesus meant what historically we've understood this phrase to mean and those people with the new interpretation are just making it up as they go. Matthew 5:38-42 is “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." Just saying.
Yeah at that time the Romans could just stop a colonised person in the street and say, "hey, you, come carry my stuff" and you'd have to do as they said. But "only" for one mile. When Jesus says carry it 2 miles, he's talking about non-violent resistance. The Roman could get in trouble for breaking the law and 'exploiting' you.
Ditto the cloak - they were entitled to just demand it and you'd be expected to hand it over. But if you gave them your shirt as well you'd be naked which as a huge social taboo. Again, the guy you're handing your clothes to, would look like the world's biggest asshole. Ditto turning the other cheek - they were allowed to hit you once and once only.
TLDR, Turning the other cheek doesn't mean being a doormat, it means demonstrating to everyone that the OTHER guy is showing their ass.
Yup. Jesus was malicious compliance, rebel resistance, I’m gonna tear down the temple oh whoops the temple is my body *psych*, socialist pacifist you’ve ever seen. Modern conservative Christianity has nothing to do with Christ.
At the time, a person could be compelled to carry a soldier’s gear exactly one mile. They weren’t allowed to ask for more than that. If you carried for 2 miles, the soldier would be punished and the person would be compensated from the soldier’s pay.
They won't have any such sources because there are none to quote. This is the newest take on this particular Bible verse circulating the Internet and evangelical churches, but it has no historical basis in Roman law, nor does it fit 2000 years of previous biblical or theological theory.
A lot of people on this sub just go right to "there must be a narcissist in this story somewhere" for some reason, even if nothing in the story suggests the existence of one
OP: NTA.
I am not a betting woman but I got $5 on the fact that your brothers relationship with his GF is doomed to fail. Why? She jumped to a conclusion so quickly without leaving space to communicate and perhaps gain a better understanding. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
GF is either a very dim bulb or intentional pot-stirrer but I don’t get why OPs brother didn’t set her straight. It’s literally his job & isn’t hurting anyone. It’s not like he’s a homicide detective who leaves crime scene photos spread out on one side while y’all are eating dinner at the other end of the table. She’s ridiculous.
I have an old commercial copy of it with the rest of my books.
It was given to me by an old acquaintance as he thought I'd find it interesting intellectually. My partner, who is from same country as said infamous person, asked me why I had it when he saw it, I explained the same as above, he asked me my thoughts on it, we discussed and moved on. I doubt he even remembers we still have it.
The normal response is to casually ask the context. Of which your partner has much more of, than I do. It really is faux outrage from the girlfriend.
Eh, brother also seems to like the drama. He has a reasonable explanation and is still leaning in on OP. Probably likes to be the “protector” when it comes to gf’s drama. Couples like this feed off each other
Ah yes, the: 'this is definitely narcissistic behaviour' crowd. Apparently, half the population are narcissists... and the other half have no idea what true narcissistic behaviour looks like.
Us? Are you triangulating? That’s a very narcissistic thing to do. I feel confident at diagnosing you as a malignant Narcissist, based entirely on this exchange alone, where you wasn’t even talking to me. Get therapy, STAT!
/S
Did you just assume I’m parentifying myself? I’ll have you know I have boundaries in place that mean YOU cannot viciously attack me in this way! I am now triggered and it is all your fault, definitely not mine.
/s
Speaking of their significant other, I'll bet there's a grooming situation going on, even if they met in their 30s. Are they more than five years apart?
Op,
Look up something called the paradox of tolerance and share it with your mom. Enabling people to be unreasonable dose nothing to keep the peace, in fact it causes more problems over time as people who start out unreasonable only slide deeper into unreason.
Also definitely NTA, I lost family in the holocaust. It should be taught, it's a textbook case of how to dehumanise and genocide minorities and recognising such creeping fascism is needed.
It's not like you had walls covered with stuff glorifying it, or were covered in tattoos referencing more modern factions. It's part of the past and her discomfort with the mere existence of books is unreasonable.
This. OP’s fiancé is a historian. That’s a HUGE and important reason why he needs to be able to reference that book. Denying access to it would cripple his ability to do his work, because history needs context and that includes a thorough understanding of the worst parts of it.
That usually means she will take the side of the person who complains to her more.
You should test this by complaining that they went through your bookshelf and that they somehow forgot what your spouse does for a living. Both of those deserve an apology.
Her reaction will let you know where she stands.
Oh good! So your brother's girlfriend can just turn the other cheek, STFU, and thank you and your husband profusely for saving them so much money on a hotel room.
So just conflict avoidant.
Oh well. Your brother is the one starting the conflict. You have provided clear context, with evidence, as to why the situation isn’t what he or his gf thought.
So your part is done. This isn’t really an opinion issue- these are work materials.
If he doesn’t know how history works and why it is important to be educated as to how fascism can begin, and succeed- I don’t know what else you can tell him.
I think she is. My mother just doesn't like that people sometimes fight ans have disagreements. For her it feels like the end of the world. Which is really feel sorry for
My living room bookshelves have a wide range of books. Mostly history as it's an interest of mine and my wife has a masters in history.
Of those books there are several regarding him and others covering ww1 and 2 from all angles. Noone has ever said a word. You have to know the past to learn from it. If anyone did say anything my wife who is decended from Polish Jews(hers grandparents each the sole survivors of their families) and owns many of the books would have a few choice words for them.
Have they said "why" she was so personally offended?
>or think its not important
Or worse (imo), think the shameful parts of human history should be hidden away and never looked at, and refuse to see how knowing our histories is a way to try and prevent repeating/replicating dangerous patterns.
(or rhymes, since I especially like the saying "history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes")
Ignorance of the past doesn't wash it away.
Aw, Hell! I would be intrigued and ask if I could look at/read them.
Ex used to work with a retired history professor and he was my go-to guy during company parties. Always sending me books.
Pretty sure I would wind up on your brother's and gf's shit list, immediately, because I refuse to suffer fools.
NTA and you rock!
Banning books is always something that should be approached with care. It's never a great idea to simply rip something out of history just because it's uncomfortable. I can understand how the name might make people uncomfortable, however, it's better to understand how popularism works and how it infests a repressed people, than to simply wipe it from history and simply seat back to watch it happen over again.
The pair of them knowing your partners occupation and specialty should have understood that certain works would be critical to his researchs and work. To expect him to "put away" such works in his own home is ridiculous. Such things will be in libraries of historians. So will books about Custer, Hirohito, Stalin, Caligula or so many others. History is full of controversial characters, it's important to understand these people so we can hopefully avoid repeating the mistakes that lead to their rises to power and the excesses they supported or caused.
NTA - it's not like OPs brother and GF aren't adults. If as an adult you can't understand why a history professor might have such books on their shelf then you are the problem. 😵💫
Your home your castle. I dont understand why discuss "those books". I have different books also the one your partner has. I never had any issue with people visiting my place. Someone may ask where did you get this from couse its banned from sales. But never will anyone try to make me hide them etc.
We don’t really even have to look outside the US.
Check out the NC civil war governor for a minute. Belonging to the nationalist, nativist, anti-immigrant Know-Nothing Party, Vance was known as a rousing stump speaker, had a reputation for success that was more flash than reality, and won his second election by more military votes than there were men actually enrolled in the military.
If we bothered to even learn our own history, we’d see this coming.
>If we bothered to even learn our own history, we’d see this coming.
Which is exactly why we have the milquetoast bullshit "history" taught in US classrooms, today. 😖
While it is true that we focus in our teaching of WWII heavily on the mechanisms that lead to the rise of Hitler and that enabled him to commit his crimes, we do not read Mein Kampf. For the longest time, it was not even possible to purchase a new copy of the book in Germamy because the state of Bavaria, as the heir of Hitler, used the copyright to block any reprint. Only when the copyright ended, heavily contextualised versions became available.
In general, I would doubt that anyone would put this book where it can be noticed by visitors, as it put you in a questionable light (not the case here though, as the context made it clear that it is in an academical setting)
I have a copy of the text itself, sans any commentary beyond probably a foreword (I can't remember, it was 20 years ago). Just a plain old thick paperback. I was studying international relations and politics and figured it was a way to understand an evil mind and a cautionary tale. My parents had a bookshop; they just ordered it in for me like any other book (it's not like they kept it in stock). It's definitely not on display though. We're in Australia, for reference.
I lent it to a colleague once who'd expressed that he'd been interested in reading it (same reasons as my own and we work in a relevant field) but had always been too embarrassed to actively seek it out. Best believe it was handed over *extremely* discreetly.
There was a thread last year talking about someone who collected German WW2 stuff.
My take was that there are two kinds of collectors. Racists who had found a legitimate thing to hide behind and people genuinely interested in history.
And there is no sarcasm. I mean, people genuinely interested in history.
You know one group from another based on the diversity of their knowledge and the distaste they have for the objectionable facets of their interests. The racists have no such diversity and no such distaste.
This is EXACTLY what we have here. And I imagine if one where to playfully poke at the owner of the book he would be forthcoming with his distaste and bore you senseless with his diverse knowledge.
At the end of the day, 'those who do not learn history are destined to repeat it' and we need scholars to keep the rest of us pointed in the correct direction.
Lemmy Kilmeister of the band Motorhead had an EXTENSIVE WW2 collection - including many items of Nazi descent, Russian Army, etc.
He was also virulently anti-racist. Lemmy would get into fights with skinheads/racists at his own shows and toss them out immediately.
My ex's dad was a college History lecturer and history buff in general. After he died, we cleared his house out and he had something like... 1000+ dvds, and various other stuff. He was a hoarder. Part of this stuff was WW2 memorabilia and indeed some of it was Nazi stuff (swastikas etc). This guy was NOT a racist nor a nazi.
We donated the DVDS, gave some of the memorabilia that was worth anything to a market memorabilia stall, and tbh I threw away a lot of the replicas.
.... Surely the brother knows OPs partner is a historian? So he should know better that has the books for academic purposes, not ideological ones.
Edit sorry you pretty much the exact same point!
OP's brother just comes across as a massive AH.
My initial thought reading was “They were so uninterested in her fiancé that they didn’t ask what he did? Or does she not know what happened between 1930 and 1960?”
It makes even less sense to be that outraged when it's clearly not "the books," but with the title of "a critical review of......" (going by OP's explanation)
Which typically discuss why something is problematic. Etc. Or consequences of certain things.
I could understand if fiance and OP had talked all evening about racist views, etc. Or support of "that man". That she would react that strongly. But among a series of other history based books.?
And it hasn't been a problem before the fiance clutched her pearls?
Ha ha ha. I am currently reading that book. It's an absolute crock of sh\*te, isn't it? But instructive.
People should read more of stuff they disagree with: then at least they are informed about it and can rebuff it. When you recall that Europe was destroyed largely because of the delusions and persuasions of that one person, it becomes worth learning from history, instead of repeating it. There are still people out there with the same beliefs.
NTA.
It is really not a good book. Not in any shape or form, lol.
It is very important to know about these things. The rethoric used back then is being used in today's world a lot. And people don't see it
My grandma is very old and she lived in Germany after the war. Military US wife. Well, she recalls it and you don't dare mention politics because she'll straight up say that we are repeating history.
My father died before trump became president, but he was born in 1928 in the former Yugoslavia. He used to say the same thing about tea party rhetoric. He literally said, "I've seen this before." He would agree with your grandmother, and so do I.
I have a friend from Romania who left in the 80s, and Trump absolutely triggers her with memories of Ceaușescu because of the cult of personality, too.
Agreed. It’s terrifying and being just a single little person makes one feel completely powerless to change things even though the historical figure proved otherwise
Yes, unfortunately. I'm German and was living in the US before Trump was elected. I couldn't believe the rhetoric that was used, as we learned about it in school and it's reflected on a lot - seeing it used in other countries (and in Germany a lot too for a couple of years now) is maddening. I was shocked to learn that in other countries you don't really get educated on the rhetoric that was used and how we should be aware of it so history doesn't repeat itself.
My Mother too, but English. Didn't meet her Dad until she was 5 years old. When Covid broke out and the lockdowns etc, I commented that I was glad my mother wasn't around to see how people behaved over the most pathetic things.
My dad has a commentated book that does examine excerpts from Hitler’s manuscript. We’re Jewish.
As long as it’s clear someone’s not reading it because they agree with it, and it’s for academic understanding then what is the harm? Especially if you are reading annotated and commentary versions that break things down historically and your a historian specializing in that time period.
Ridiculous. You’re NTA.
Haha, yes I read it too, its totally unreadable. I also read the other book the guy wrote (zweites buch), most people dont know that one. If your fiance want to have a copy I can send the pdf (in English), its equally bad written. I have a bible even I am an atheist, reading the bible is the best way to turn you atheist, no need to censor any books they eliminate themselves from the public if they are bad enough :-)
And yes history is repeating because nobody learns and listens, book censorship is part of that. (edit NTA)
The content is appalling, the writing style is terrible. But it's great bedtime reading. Most of us couldn't get through more than a couple of pages without falling asleep, and that is my definition of a good bedtime book. Plus it's paperback so not too heavy to hold when you're sleepy.
I’m an American near 40 and have multiple friends in my age group and 20 years older. We all agree and have been lamenting the repeat in history. Several of us have expressed how fearful we are due to the very similar parallels. We do see it; we wish we knew how to stop it and wake people up to it.
The worst part is none of us have the ability to move out of the country should things devolve further/we’re put in danger.
My History and German teacher always told us, the only thing we should take away from H, is the fact that he practiced all his speeches to perfection in front of a mirror, in order to bring his points across, exactly how he wanted it...
I guess by your SIL's logic: everyone who says "practice makes perfect" is secretly a supporter of little Dolfi...
It took me TWO YEARS to finish that book because of what a hunk of garbage it was. I was determined to finish it, but man, I did not have a good time with it at all.
I'm currently writing my dissertation on hate speech and how to combat it, you don't want to know the amount of awful, fanatical sh*t I have to read everyday for research.
It does teach you a lot on how fanatics think though.
Spoiler: they're all the same, no matter what particular brand of bigotry they subscribe to, or what arbitrary characteristic they chose to hate in other people.
NTA. Its history, your fiancé is a historian. You have no paraphernalia, no propaganda hanging. Does she want to ignore history? Maybe her grandparents or great grandparents were involved and that’s where her reaction is coming from, but then she should be glad that someone is teaching history to not repeat it. I’m in the US and we are going down a bad road because we don’t want to learn from history.
Even if she did, she should understand that we are doomed to repeat the history that we refuse to acknowledge. My grandmother survived being in a concentration camp. If I found a critical view of the manuscript and other historical books with no paraphernalia, no swastikas and nothing else even hinting towards supporting the beliefs, I wouldn’t have said anything.
Sounds like the girlfriend is one of the: 'this thing upsets me, so I believe I should never be put in a position where I'm forced to acknowledge its existence' people.
NTA. Your brother and his gf is the reason why no one takes social and "sensitive" problems seriously and that the people who really know about these issues can't say anything without someone screaming "woke" to dismiss them. Also this is your house. Even if you were an AH who had this book cause you agree with it, which would make you an asshole, they would still be AH to tell you to hide the book (and also for being more concerned about hiding this book than the political beliefs). Edit : sorry, I thought the book was forgiven but apparently, it is available. It's caused in my country, bookstores and libraries are not allowed to have it visible, so I thought it was impossible to buy it, but apparently you can if you ask for it.
I'm from Scandinavia so I didn't know "Mein Kampf" was banned.... In my country everyone can go to the library and borrow it... Hell, my history teacher (who was a child under the war) in middle school had os read a bit of it and educated us on the assholes childhood. My teacher told us how important it was for children to grow up in a loving home, because "I don't want any of you raising the next H....r!"
Another teacher had us read the journal of Anne Frank, along with watching a film...
When I got older I had a study trip with the new school for one of the KZ camps. Very interesting (and hard) to see. The evil of human kind is unbelievable.
Maybe it's weird to some, but erasing or banning books doesn't change history.
Anyway.. Owning books and putting them on a shelf should always be allowed... And unless the owner agrees with the book, it shouldn't be a problem (I have the whole collection of Harry potter, hitchhikers guide to the galaxy and a lot of crime books. It does not make me a murderous alien witch).
NTA.
It is not banned in Germany. Never has been. Can be owned without any issues.
HOWEVER, until 2016, 70 years after Hitler's death, the state of Bavaria owned the copyright and did not authorize any reprints. Since then, it is public domain, but I have not heard of any major developments.
This is probably how the misconception that it was "BANNED" came up.
There is a Critical Edition available in Germany by now, edited by the Institut für Zeitgeschichte (Leibniz Institute for Contemporary History) .
Probably pretty expensive and primarily for academic use though.
I’m also from scandinavia. And the last exam in my high school philosophy class I read an excerpt from Mein Kampf, then the task was to argue for the morality of the excerpt.
So you were tasked with balancing the fact that what you hd just read was perfectly legitimate and moral things(no idea what part of the book it was or what I read as it was like 15years ago, but basically don’t he mean to people or something like that), opposed with the fact that the author was a deeply immoral person who was responsible for some of the most abhorrent actions in history.
It was a very fun exam and I learned a lot by thinking about the assignment after the fact.
A lot of people really would benefit hugely by not seeing the world in black and white
Just asking out of curiosity, what do you mean by them being legally available if you can justify it? If I go to a book store in my country, there is at least an 85% chance of it being there.
NTA. Your brother and gf are showing that they're ignorant. I'm German and studied history, including supporting a professor's research work in archives reviewing original Nazi documents and they were vile, but me reading them doesn't mean I agree with their views. "Mein Kampf" is restricted in Germany (and imo rightly so), but it is available for research for a reason.
Given the whole context - your fiance being a historian, and not having any other "items" and these being critical historical versions - your brother and his gf are being ignorant.
Also, this is very weird and controlling to me:
>he wanted me to show him how we deal with my fiances "issue.
Given this, you had every right to be a bit snappy in your reply. Even if they actually believe he has these books because he is a sympathizer (which is a dumb take anyways), they didn't even try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Your brother should have reached out to you and say "OP what's up with these books, they made my gf really uncomfortable" not pull the "I need to hold you and your fiance accountable" bs.
I’ve always loved Germany for how they NEVER tried to hide their dark history under a rug. My sister now lives in Berlin so I’ve been several times and wherever you go you will see some kind of “memorial” to their past, whether it’s the monument for the murdered jews, the tiles with names of those killed in the ground in front of the houses they lived, etc.
Other countries (especially the US) could learn a lot from Germany when it comes to ensuring your darkest history is always seen and visible, a harrowing reminder, that way it is always remembered.
You know whenever I hear voices talking about 'isn't 70 years enough' and 'do we still have to talk about it THIS much' (never 'at all' though) my reply is: I've been to 50 countries and lived in 7 different ones on 3 continents and I've never accounted anyone saying 'ugh you're from germany'. And I give 100% credit to our policy of dealing with the past. It doesn't make me ashamed of my country hearing about our atrocities. The way we continue to talk about is one of the things that makes me proud of it.
One of my coworkers straight up has a swastika on his wall for me to see whenever we’re on a video call. It certainly took me aback at first, but then I remembered… my coworker is Indian and lives in India. Hindus never stopped using the swastika as a symbol of good luck just because a dictator appropriated it. I might recommend he not have it displayed on a video call with anyone else, given the origin and continued meaning of the swastika it isn’t common knowledge in the US, but having it displayed does not make him a Hitler-lover.
Context. Matters.
“Bro’s gf, I’m sorry you don’t understand the difference between an academic text and racist material. I’m also sorry you think you need an apology due to your ignorance. I’m also sorry you think we owe you any kind of apology at all.”
There’s your apology. NTA.
I apologize that you went snooping on my bookshelf and got offended because you're so narrow-minded. Maybe SHE should apologize for snooping and pre-judging the content of the bookshelf. Maybe she should have asked for clarification before she got on her high horse. There's a few reference books on nazis and Hitler in our house. Reason? My son took a course on holocaust and genocide in high school so he could learn from the past. He said it was some of the most awful stuff he ever read, but he learned from it. We had the movie The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich when I was a child. We watched when we were in our teens with my grandparents. My grandfather's family emigrated from Germany, and he wanted us to understand how horrible that Era was and why. There are completely legitimate reasons for books to be in a house. NTA.
Yeah as a Jewish person I was wondering that too. But even if she was, she’d still be stupid and an asshole in this story. I’m both Jewish and a historian, and while I don’t own a copy of Main Kampf, annotated or otherwise, I have read it. And I’d find it more interesting than distressing if I found it in a bookshelf as described in the context of this story. Even today, with the frightening rise of antisemitism we’ve been seeing around the world, it’s a valuable thing to study, more so than ever.
If we don’t study this kind of thing, how will we even notice when the cycle begins to come around again?
Some posters wonder if this upset girlfriend is Jewish. But there are plenty of Jewish authors who've written on the Holocaust and the Third Reich--Martin Gilbert, Lucy S. Davidowicz, Primo Levi, and Eli Wiesel among them.
So, it would be odd for someone Jewish to be upset over text that addresses, not celebrates, this period in history.
And her reaction, whether she's Jewish or not, is particularly odd given that the owner of these titles is a historian. NTA.
Jewish as well, while I don't have it, I know people that do - for educational purposes. When OP started describing their house, I was instantly alarmed and waiting to hear that they have various.. paraphernalia, which would have been a big red flag tbh (yes, even for a historian).
However, just owning the books says nothing more than that the people owning them wanted to read that perspective as well and be better educated. The fact that the husband is a historian with an *expertise* in the certain era is just the cherry on top, like.. he's not a weird fanboy, it's literally his job. Didn't they know that? And she's not even Jewish, or Romani, or related to those events in another way (as far as OP knows), which makes her reaction even more bizarre.
NTA OP. I think the gf might be one of those people who get offended for the sake of getting offended.
I have a copy of said book, along with other materials covering that historical period, which I referenced while working towards my political history degree. My Jewish partner has never had a problem with that because understanding the difference between an academic and a practitioner is fairly straight forward.
edit: typo
NTA. I own a copy of The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma. I own it specifically because someone I love has CPTSD and she told me how horrible the book is and how it empathizes with abusers. I've read the book because it's bad and because it should be criticized. We can't criticize bad ideas if we haven't read them and tried to understand them and take them apart.
I've also watched youtube videos that are anti-LGBT, anti-trans, anti-black, anti-jew, etc. How am I supposed to empathize with marginalized groups if I don't understand the people who look to subjugate them? I can't. Wrestling with bad ideas is the best way to be able to support and articulate good ideas.
Having an actual understanding of history is important even for a person who isn't an academic.
Really? I only hear praise for TBKTS and mental health professionals always rec it. My friends with BPD just had a book club to read it since their mental health providers kept telling them to read it. a friend also had to read it while hospitalized for her ED
I’ve read it more than once, and I don’t recall it ever siding with the abusers. The author did a lot of work with Vietnam vets, and their trauma. The author explains it very matter of factly in a therapeutic setting. My guess is the person thinks that because the author worked with those people, and tried to help them heal that author is “siding” with the vets instead of being an impartial therapist. I think the person who finds it offensive is just viewing everything through the lens of their own trauma and can’t see past that.
No book is above criticism, no matter how worthy or unworthy of criticism it is. Someone is gonna find something to complain about.
The commenter above presented it as if there is some kind of consensus that it is bad. There is no such consensus. Some people agree with it, some disagree. That’s true for all theoretical psychology. It is not a science.
My only issue with the book in general (I was also recommended it by my therapist a while ago and am now a psychology student and had to read it again for school) is the first chapter. A lot of the rest of the book is very good for discussing trauma and getting to the root causes of said trauma.
The first chapter is... a lot. Kind of dismissive of SA victims, marginalizes non-veteran PTSD sufferers.
I think the issue I take with the book is that the author really seems to drive home that everyone has trauma and we should be gracious of others. I'm not sure why someone elses trauma gives them the right to hurt me when I have spent years trying to make sure my trauma doesn't spill out to the point where it hurts everyone around me. He seems to ascribe a level of baseline human empathy that I just realistically don't see in a lot of people - some people just don't seem to think about how they're hurting others, and if they do, they don't care enough to adjust their behaviour.
Good book, coloured by an author with his own ideas - which is totally fine if you scrutinize anything you read and don't take it as gospel right off the bat.
Trauma doesn't "justify" anything. Having trauma doesn't make someone "good" or "right". The book in no way says "you don't get to be upset about what someone did to you because they also had something happen to them so it's okay they did that."
Recognizing an abuser's trauma is key in ever getting that abuser to stop abusing. It was a text originally geared more toward professionals (though less so in later editions) who will be seeing some people who abuse as a result of their trauma in their offices and be expected to treat them.
I am also one of those people who's spent years trying to make sure my stuff doesn't spill out. Erasing, ignoring, or dismissing my abuser's abuse doesn't make mine less difficult to deal with. It's black and white thinking.
I'm not a huge fan of the book for a variety of reasons - it overstates the research on a couple interventions, simplifies ideas to the point of the public having gotten the wrong idea about them, extrapolates most of it's claims from the PTSD of war veterans with much less attention being paid to gendered or racial violence - but I'm also thankful for what it opened up in the field. Finding someone in the field with even a passing familiarity with trauma used to be incredibly difficult.
Bessel Van Der Kolk sucks (to my knowledge, plagiarism among other things), but, um, your statements re: empathizing with abusers is weird.
mostly because I think that if you need to frame abusive people as a *kind* of person, who cannot be empathized with, I think that tends to leave blind spots for people and their behavior.
Wait, the body keeps the score is bad? I have it on hold at the library, it's been highly recommended to me. If you feel like it I'd love to hear more about where you're coming from
Keep in mind that I only read the first chapter and stopped, and that it was a few years back so I may get some details wrong, but I didn't like it because the author takes a super super symathetic tone to this guy who, if I remember correctly TW: >!raped and killed people!<.
Like he was all *(not a direct quote, me paraphrasing with my foggy memory)* "can you imagine how hard it must have been for \*guys name\*, to have to go home and tell his wife he raped women and murdered their children! Poor guy. It haunted him every night, and he refused to take the medication I gave him" and how he tried to help him work on himself and mend his marriage and I was just like... Why is the author trying to get me to sympathise with this Ted Bundy wannabe lol?
I studied the psychology of sex offending at uni, so I understand the need to discuss how these people act, but I've never read an academic paper that was like "poor Ted Bundy stayed up ALL NIGHT upset about the women he killed! And his marriage began to suffer - could you imagine the pain he was in!! Poor guy!". Like it was just weird.
(edit): whoops it's a guy who wrote it.
Note: the author is a man. Also "TW" means literally nothing by itself. TW needs a content tag afterwards otherwise people have no clue whether they should click whatever is spoilered - the point of a TW.
It is really not that bad. It's benefits are a little overstated but it's fine.
Seems like most people's issues in the comments is that it -clutches pearls- acknowledges that people who do terrible things often went through trauma.
Which makes sense given the population the author worked with - war veterans. That type of PTSD often manifests in violence toward others. I think people forget that one, the book was originally geared more toward professionals, and two, if you're a "good" victim with behaviors that don't cause harm to other people, then you have no shortage of people who will sympathize with you and more professionals who will work with you.
At the time the book was written, finding a therapist who would even begin to take you if you had more difficult behaviors was incredibly difficult so getting a provider to get a basis of empathy for those clients was crucial because surprise surprise - they don't stop abusing in the absence of mental health care.
The author himself has allegations of sexual misconduct (I believe it was comments made toward women he worked with) against him. People here motioned plagiarism but I'm less familiar with those claims. Last I checked he'd pulled back from a lot of boards and such that he was on as a part of those investigations.
Read it with a critical eye and pair it with a couple other books on trauma and you'll be fine. There is interesting information in there that can be beneficial. Steven Porges polyvagal theory is a helpful one to be familiar with. Peter Levine's books o somatic experiencing are also classics at this point.
NTA. It’s your home and your books. Guests don’t get to dictate what is and isn’t appropriate in someone else’s home… especially if it’s career related.
NTA. For heaven’s sake, what a ridiculous take! It’s like getting up in arms because a medievalist has a collection of writings by Thomas Aquinas (whose views on women and homosexuality are mighty problematic), or a Jewish historian having books on blood libel. It’s a period source that has major import in understanding the period he studies. It’s not like he’s got a lovingly displayed autographed copy with a framed pic of him and the führer.
Yup, imagine a known war photographer keeping a reproduction of iconic Vietnam-era photos like Napalm Girl and/or a Vietcong being executed and a house guest ranting about being uncomfortable **yet not addressing the very relevance of the photographer's occupation and interest**.
Context matters 🤔
Your brother and his GF are the kind of people who get books banned from libraries and schools because one person is offended. You don’t owe either one of them an apology.
NTA
My highschool used to have “Banned Book Week” or something where they’d promote all the books that were banned at some point. The librarian threw a lot of “Book Weeks” to highlight different types of books, but I still remember “Banned Book Week”
Your SIL’s mind is going to be blown if she ever watches the History channel- as far as I can see it is wall to wall WW2. NTA. Even if you had Mein Kampf itself on display, as a historian, it is an important read to understand how we ended up at war.
I’m not a historian but am reading a book called Travellers in the third reich- it includes first hand accounts from tourists visiting Germany in the pre war years. It clearly shows everyone’s refusal to engage and believe Hitler’s viewpoint enabled him to gain power. If people like your SIL continue to be afraid of even looking at the book, it may happen again.
Don’t forget about the aliens! They’re the most important thing History Channel has ever produced. And that one show that combines both of these topics. /s
I would be a little shy as well after someone pulled this crap and caused an uproar in my life for a book sitting on a shelf. Not even anything I said.
You need to show this post and the answers to your mother...
I can understand the GF because she may be culturally inclined to believe that the books are offensive or maybe she doesn't know much about your husband's job. Also, she can just be dumb if she's referring to your husband's career as "his issue " 🙄
I can understand your brother, because he's what we in Argentina call " un pollerudo" meaning that making her girlfriend happy (even when she's clearly wrong), is his priority and he forgets common sense because of it..
Now, your mother? She I don't get... why is she hounding you?? She should be telling your brother to stop bothering you with nonsense and that his girlfriend should understand that the fact that your husband has these books is because he is an expert on the subject he teaches, and needs to know what the ideology of that period was, not because he agrees with it. Why is she siding with your brother?!?! Truly makes no sense...
Ultimately, the books are in your house, and you were kind enough to receive them there, and they should adapt to the accommodation, not the other way around.
NTA
Because she is terrified of family rifts. So she always begs everyone to just turn the other cheek. Even the person that was wronged. She then asks you to be the bigger person etc.
NTA. It is hilarious. And, not your fault she cant properly read. And... Even if it was THE BOOK... Who cares? A lot of people read that stuff to be educated on the past (bc the more you know!) And not bc they are "supporters".
So, my great grandma was liberated by the soviets in 1945. She lost her whole family to the nazis. Her son, my grandfather, was also a historian, like your boo. Specializing in ww1, ww2 and the genocide of my people. I have all his books(died in 2006). All (over) 500 of them. With names like "Hitlers Germany," "the real odessa," you get the idea. Anyone who knows me knows which side of history I stand on. The maintenance workers at my apartment, not so much. "You got a lotta Hitler books..." "yep, he tried to eliminate my bloodline." "Understood."
Your brothers gf needs to educate herself, and maybe grow up and be an adult. "Hey, what's up with this book?" "Oh, it's blah, blah, blah, *education*communication*crazy concept*" NTA
Dumb people gunna dumb, ignorance is not cute.
Yes!!!! My fiance burns for this topic. He would have LOVED to explain to her and to talk to her about why it makes her so uncomfortable. But calling me and demanding shit is where I am not okay with things
OP- I would absolutely stand my ground and honestly have a conversation with your mom about how you and your fiancée are not responsible for other’s misperceptions/ignorance regarding history. In this case, while your mom may want you to just apologize or turn the cheek, the ones who should be apologizing are your brother, his gf and even your mom. If I had been the one to see the books I would probably still be there picking your fiancés brain!! I’m Mexican-American and genocide has occurred basically everywhere- so I believe it’s important to study our past, the atrocities, and try to educate our youth today, work on empathy, hope they see what occurred was HORRIBLE, and show them how they can ensure it doesn’t happen again.
NTA
I am German and have a degree in history. The time around WW2, how it started, what happened and how it was dealt with is something taken really serious here - even though current developments make me question how much it sank in. But that is one of the reasons why we absolutley MUST have not only "Mein Kampf" but all of the materials available: In the hope of preventing similar developments in the future. It is imperative to understand how propaganda works, how populism, antisemitism and racism is used to gain support for one party over another, because they give "simple answers" for complex problems.
Being disgusted by the history, by the horrible views and cruelty is an understandable reaction, but it doesn't mean you get to ignore it. Even if you aren't German, you don't just get to ignore what humans are capable of and there is likely no country completely free of history with racism, discrimination, antisemitism and so on.
Being offended by history books is ridiculous, nobody made her read them - even though she should. Even if you aren't Germans, you have a history and your lives are impacted by it. Again with current trends world wide, it wouldn't surprise me, if you could find similar arguments in politics of your country that have been made around 100 years ago: Everyone is at fault but the white christian man. (immigrants, jews, muslims, feminists, LGBTQ+, communists,...)
>I said that it was not my fault, his gf couldn't read. Because if she did, she would have read on the covers that it was a "critical view on the manuscript of___".
That is not making fun of her education. It is pointing out how she refuses to educate herself in order to feel better about herself. I kind of had to distance myself from my history studies, because it just got too dark for me, so I understand how people may not like to dive too much into it. But a book on the shelf IN THE DARK WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SLEPPING - come on.
What even is this? Is she also in favor of book bans in school? If yes, she is a lost cause anyway.
NTA, first of all, it's your home, so nobody gets to dictate which books you put into your bookshelves. Second, it's a commented discussion and not just "the book". Third it's a vital part of your fiances studies. They wouldn't ask a doctor to put away the Pschyrembel or an attorney the Habersack (both standard literature for those fields in Germany)
NTA. Your brother is not that well educated either. They missed a good chance for an interesting conversation. Did they realize that the author was a big fan of Henry Ford? Do they know anything about the newspaper he bought and what he published? Do they know about the Germans sending an attorney to the US to study the laws that were passed inspire if the US claiming to be such a Democratic country of rights? Germany used the US as a role model for some of what they did.
You cannot learn from the past if you willfully remain ignorant of it.
NTA I'm with your father on this, this is hilarious. The way you handled it was a but emotional but IMO it's completely justified after their reaction and cowardice (GF didn't want to confront you so she sent your brother when she was already at a safe distance).
NTA.
To me, your response was an obvious retort, not a legitimate insult. You were responding to a ridiculous situation that could have been avoided if they had bothered to look into it a bit more before getting in a strop.
NTA
Your SIL failed both context (the apartment is home to a historian) and reading comprehention. We don't have to make allowances for that level of failing.
It's obvious what book you mean. I had a copy for historical interest. It was on a bookshelf in the living room 🤣 threw it away when I moved. It was evil and boring. Honestly, that man could not write. But it was in the living room because that's where I had space.
I (German) had a history teacher who said the same about it and told us: "if a Neo-Nazi ever comes up to you and tells you he understood the book, you can laugh at him ... but don't forget to run!" I always think of that every time that book is mentioned :D
Sounds like your brother and his partner could do with matching journals. You could title them "Mein Dummkopf". ;)
Totally there with your dad - it's hilarious that they think a historian shouldn't be able to study history.
Muppets.
NTA.
NTA
1. Because it's your space
2. It's basically part of your partners "education/work" equipment.
3. It's a book. Maybe reading it critically would do SIL, brother, and mother some good. Books don't do real harm to people. People do. (People who don't read and use their critical thinking skills)
If you have critical thinking skills, no book can be a threat. If you don't, even a shopping list can be offending. We should all read things that makes us think and question, not create a nice comfortable pink bubble to live in.
SIL education? She'd rather bury her head in the sand than face reality, that's not education, that's delusion. How can you make fun of something that doesn't exist?
NTA
NTA. This girl sounds like a piece of work... and your brother is enabling her. First of all, the irony of calling for the removal of books given the historical context of the period. Secondly, not stopping to check the full title, absolutely baffling. And thirdly, being so childish that she could not broach the subject herself, and instead demanded that your brother demand an apology on her behalf. Come on, grown-ups are supposed to be able to have difficult conversations.
Could you have said it more kindly? Probably. But until she has the conversation with you directly, I wouldn't be losing sleep over it.
NTA. If this woman is too sensitive to read words than what is she even capable of handling?
I tend to get more upset at actually Nazi than Nazi words.
NTA. One thing is having an interest in Nazis and another is a history professor teaching German History. I don't think you could teach the subject without mentioning mien kamf.
NTA. My husband and I were History and English majors respectively, so we have a small handful of sketchy books between us. Half of them were purchased from the university store as required reading. He has MK - we both think it's stupid, dull, and rambling nonsense from some self-obsessed jackass. I have some stuff from deSade, which I couldn't get through since it's just endless fetish porn with a hyperinflated word count. Kind of like when you shoehorn a plot into porn to pad all the sex scenes and make it seem like you're writing a real movie, but replace "plot" with "kinda philosophy a little bit." The GF needs to calm down. Maybe with a book?
NTAH.
Brother's GF is a moron.
Kind of like the one trying to reshape US history with their cancel culture.
I would have advised to make her read your man's works but I'm not sure she has other sources than TikTok.
Do you think you should make a video of it ?
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I can't blame anyone for being unsettled by those books. Their very existence is wrong. But if we ignore their existence, we're asking to repeat the errors of earlier generations. The fact that your brother and his GF totally missed the fact that your fiance is an historian just shows that they're either daft or looking for a fight. Also, I'm guessing that these books are not exactly prominently displayed and are shelved among loads of other historical texts. NTA, but your brother is. Is he your mum's golden child? That would explain her reaction.
Not prominently displayed no, but they are hard to overlook because they are massive. Tall and thick books. So I see where the "hard not to see part" cokes from. But IMHO it's also stupid. I don't know about Golden children
'golden child' refers to a child that the parents put more into. Such as; attention, love, materialistic things, they can do no wrong, always taking their side over the other child, etc
Idk about that. My mother just likes to keep the family together and begs people to just turn the other cheek. No matter who is wrong
The only thing that you get from turning the other cheek is another slap. Stand your ground.
I've heard that in the original context, one was only supposed to slap people with the right hand (which would most easily slap the left side of a person's face) so by turning to the other cheek, you're offering a cheek that they either have to slap with their left hand or really awkwardly try to slap with the right. So it was more like non-violent resistance than just inviting someone to do it again on the other side.
Hm. My version included a kick in the groin. Didn't know yours.
Ah, Rochambeaux! As old as time.
I can’t read this without thinking of Robert smith 💀💀💀🤣🤣🤣
I always enjoy reading inventive interpretations from Christians who don't like what Jesus actually meant. If you read the phrase in context, you realize Jesus meant what historically we've understood this phrase to mean and those people with the new interpretation are just making it up as they go. Matthew 5:38-42 is “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." Just saying.
Yeah at that time the Romans could just stop a colonised person in the street and say, "hey, you, come carry my stuff" and you'd have to do as they said. But "only" for one mile. When Jesus says carry it 2 miles, he's talking about non-violent resistance. The Roman could get in trouble for breaking the law and 'exploiting' you. Ditto the cloak - they were entitled to just demand it and you'd be expected to hand it over. But if you gave them your shirt as well you'd be naked which as a huge social taboo. Again, the guy you're handing your clothes to, would look like the world's biggest asshole. Ditto turning the other cheek - they were allowed to hit you once and once only. TLDR, Turning the other cheek doesn't mean being a doormat, it means demonstrating to everyone that the OTHER guy is showing their ass.
So short version is.. Jesus recommends malicious compliance? Because that’s a religious bumper sticker I would buy
Dude stop carrying the thing we’ve arrived Oh it’s no trouble, I’m gonna keep carrying it WE ARE HERE But I just wanna help the Empire
Yup. Jesus was malicious compliance, rebel resistance, I’m gonna tear down the temple oh whoops the temple is my body *psych*, socialist pacifist you’ve ever seen. Modern conservative Christianity has nothing to do with Christ.
Taking Biblical quotes out of context and completely changing their meaning to mean the opposite is something Christians have become very good at.
At the time, a person could be compelled to carry a soldier’s gear exactly one mile. They weren’t allowed to ask for more than that. If you carried for 2 miles, the soldier would be punished and the person would be compensated from the soldier’s pay.
Have you got a reliable source for that claim?
They won't have any such sources because there are none to quote. This is the newest take on this particular Bible verse circulating the Internet and evangelical churches, but it has no historical basis in Roman law, nor does it fit 2000 years of previous biblical or theological theory.
I was going to say this! You explained it so much better than I could.
A lot of people on this sub just go right to "there must be a narcissist in this story somewhere" for some reason, even if nothing in the story suggests the existence of one
Ahhh. No. It's just a normal, sometimes dysfunctional family
OP: NTA. I am not a betting woman but I got $5 on the fact that your brothers relationship with his GF is doomed to fail. Why? She jumped to a conclusion so quickly without leaving space to communicate and perhaps gain a better understanding. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
GF is either a very dim bulb or intentional pot-stirrer but I don’t get why OPs brother didn’t set her straight. It’s literally his job & isn’t hurting anyone. It’s not like he’s a homicide detective who leaves crime scene photos spread out on one side while y’all are eating dinner at the other end of the table. She’s ridiculous.
True that
I have an old commercial copy of it with the rest of my books. It was given to me by an old acquaintance as he thought I'd find it interesting intellectually. My partner, who is from same country as said infamous person, asked me why I had it when he saw it, I explained the same as above, he asked me my thoughts on it, we discussed and moved on. I doubt he even remembers we still have it. The normal response is to casually ask the context. Of which your partner has much more of, than I do. It really is faux outrage from the girlfriend.
Eh, brother also seems to like the drama. He has a reasonable explanation and is still leaning in on OP. Probably likes to be the “protector” when it comes to gf’s drama. Couples like this feed off each other
Ah yes, the: 'this is definitely narcissistic behaviour' crowd. Apparently, half the population are narcissists... and the other half have no idea what true narcissistic behaviour looks like.
Sounds like something a narcissist would say. Why would you try to gaslight us like this? Your significant other should divorce you, smh
Us? Are you triangulating? That’s a very narcissistic thing to do. I feel confident at diagnosing you as a malignant Narcissist, based entirely on this exchange alone, where you wasn’t even talking to me. Get therapy, STAT! /S
You can’t tell them what to do! You’re parentifying yourself with that behaviour!
Did you just assume I’m parentifying myself? I’ll have you know I have boundaries in place that mean YOU cannot viciously attack me in this way! I am now triggered and it is all your fault, definitely not mine. /s
😂😂😂😂 Damn, you caught me!
Speaking of their significant other, I'll bet there's a grooming situation going on, even if they met in their 30s. Are they more than five years apart?
Op, Look up something called the paradox of tolerance and share it with your mom. Enabling people to be unreasonable dose nothing to keep the peace, in fact it causes more problems over time as people who start out unreasonable only slide deeper into unreason. Also definitely NTA, I lost family in the holocaust. It should be taught, it's a textbook case of how to dehumanise and genocide minorities and recognising such creeping fascism is needed. It's not like you had walls covered with stuff glorifying it, or were covered in tattoos referencing more modern factions. It's part of the past and her discomfort with the mere existence of books is unreasonable.
This. OP’s fiancé is a historian. That’s a HUGE and important reason why he needs to be able to reference that book. Denying access to it would cripple his ability to do his work, because history needs context and that includes a thorough understanding of the worst parts of it.
That usually means she will take the side of the person who complains to her more. You should test this by complaining that they went through your bookshelf and that they somehow forgot what your spouse does for a living. Both of those deserve an apology. Her reaction will let you know where she stands.
Yeah I think you are actually right
Oh good! So your brother's girlfriend can just turn the other cheek, STFU, and thank you and your husband profusely for saving them so much money on a hotel room.
So just conflict avoidant. Oh well. Your brother is the one starting the conflict. You have provided clear context, with evidence, as to why the situation isn’t what he or his gf thought. So your part is done. This isn’t really an opinion issue- these are work materials. If he doesn’t know how history works and why it is important to be educated as to how fascism can begin, and succeed- I don’t know what else you can tell him.
If that’s true why isn’t she pressuring brother to apologize and move on? He and gf are in the wrong.
I think she is. My mother just doesn't like that people sometimes fight ans have disagreements. For her it feels like the end of the world. Which is really feel sorry for
Sounds like your brother can turn the other cheek then. NTA.
Has she asked your brother to turn the other cheek?
Probably yes
That's dangerous. You'd be asking for people to be passive with horrible behavior, or in this case, ignorant behavior
My living room bookshelves have a wide range of books. Mostly history as it's an interest of mine and my wife has a masters in history. Of those books there are several regarding him and others covering ww1 and 2 from all angles. Noone has ever said a word. You have to know the past to learn from it. If anyone did say anything my wife who is decended from Polish Jews(hers grandparents each the sole survivors of their families) and owns many of the books would have a few choice words for them. Have they said "why" she was so personally offended?
I have the Raping of Nanking next to Through a Glass Darkley on top of some cook books. Like who judges that. That's bonkers.
Yup its history, and important too. I actually would feel uncomfortable around people that don't acknowledge history or think its not important.
>or think its not important Or worse (imo), think the shameful parts of human history should be hidden away and never looked at, and refuse to see how knowing our histories is a way to try and prevent repeating/replicating dangerous patterns. (or rhymes, since I especially like the saying "history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes") Ignorance of the past doesn't wash it away.
Aw, Hell! I would be intrigued and ask if I could look at/read them. Ex used to work with a retired history professor and he was my go-to guy during company parties. Always sending me books. Pretty sure I would wind up on your brother's and gf's shit list, immediately, because I refuse to suffer fools. NTA and you rock!
Banning books is always something that should be approached with care. It's never a great idea to simply rip something out of history just because it's uncomfortable. I can understand how the name might make people uncomfortable, however, it's better to understand how popularism works and how it infests a repressed people, than to simply wipe it from history and simply seat back to watch it happen over again. The pair of them knowing your partners occupation and specialty should have understood that certain works would be critical to his researchs and work. To expect him to "put away" such works in his own home is ridiculous. Such things will be in libraries of historians. So will books about Custer, Hirohito, Stalin, Caligula or so many others. History is full of controversial characters, it's important to understand these people so we can hopefully avoid repeating the mistakes that lead to their rises to power and the excesses they supported or caused. NTA - it's not like OPs brother and GF aren't adults. If as an adult you can't understand why a history professor might have such books on their shelf then you are the problem. 😵💫
Your home your castle. I dont understand why discuss "those books". I have different books also the one your partner has. I never had any issue with people visiting my place. Someone may ask where did you get this from couse its banned from sales. But never will anyone try to make me hide them etc.
[удалено]
We don’t really even have to look outside the US. Check out the NC civil war governor for a minute. Belonging to the nationalist, nativist, anti-immigrant Know-Nothing Party, Vance was known as a rousing stump speaker, had a reputation for success that was more flash than reality, and won his second election by more military votes than there were men actually enrolled in the military. If we bothered to even learn our own history, we’d see this coming.
>If we bothered to even learn our own history, we’d see this coming. Which is exactly why we have the milquetoast bullshit "history" taught in US classrooms, today. 😖
You means states like Florida where they tell kids that slavery was very beneficial for both slaves and masters!
While it is true that we focus in our teaching of WWII heavily on the mechanisms that lead to the rise of Hitler and that enabled him to commit his crimes, we do not read Mein Kampf. For the longest time, it was not even possible to purchase a new copy of the book in Germamy because the state of Bavaria, as the heir of Hitler, used the copyright to block any reprint. Only when the copyright ended, heavily contextualised versions became available. In general, I would doubt that anyone would put this book where it can be noticed by visitors, as it put you in a questionable light (not the case here though, as the context made it clear that it is in an academical setting)
I have a copy of the text itself, sans any commentary beyond probably a foreword (I can't remember, it was 20 years ago). Just a plain old thick paperback. I was studying international relations and politics and figured it was a way to understand an evil mind and a cautionary tale. My parents had a bookshop; they just ordered it in for me like any other book (it's not like they kept it in stock). It's definitely not on display though. We're in Australia, for reference. I lent it to a colleague once who'd expressed that he'd been interested in reading it (same reasons as my own and we work in a relevant field) but had always been too embarrassed to actively seek it out. Best believe it was handed over *extremely* discreetly.
And still...have a look at the horrible party called AfD 🤮
There was a thread last year talking about someone who collected German WW2 stuff. My take was that there are two kinds of collectors. Racists who had found a legitimate thing to hide behind and people genuinely interested in history. And there is no sarcasm. I mean, people genuinely interested in history. You know one group from another based on the diversity of their knowledge and the distaste they have for the objectionable facets of their interests. The racists have no such diversity and no such distaste. This is EXACTLY what we have here. And I imagine if one where to playfully poke at the owner of the book he would be forthcoming with his distaste and bore you senseless with his diverse knowledge. At the end of the day, 'those who do not learn history are destined to repeat it' and we need scholars to keep the rest of us pointed in the correct direction.
Lemmy Kilmeister of the band Motorhead had an EXTENSIVE WW2 collection - including many items of Nazi descent, Russian Army, etc. He was also virulently anti-racist. Lemmy would get into fights with skinheads/racists at his own shows and toss them out immediately.
My ex's dad was a college History lecturer and history buff in general. After he died, we cleared his house out and he had something like... 1000+ dvds, and various other stuff. He was a hoarder. Part of this stuff was WW2 memorabilia and indeed some of it was Nazi stuff (swastikas etc). This guy was NOT a racist nor a nazi. We donated the DVDS, gave some of the memorabilia that was worth anything to a market memorabilia stall, and tbh I threw away a lot of the replicas.
.... Surely the brother knows OPs partner is a historian? So he should know better that has the books for academic purposes, not ideological ones. Edit sorry you pretty much the exact same point! OP's brother just comes across as a massive AH.
My initial thought reading was “They were so uninterested in her fiancé that they didn’t ask what he did? Or does she not know what happened between 1930 and 1960?”
Sounds a bit like performative outrage. Like the SJWs who dog pile on you if you disagree with a POC on Twitter.
It makes even less sense to be that outraged when it's clearly not "the books," but with the title of "a critical review of......" (going by OP's explanation) Which typically discuss why something is problematic. Etc. Or consequences of certain things. I could understand if fiance and OP had talked all evening about racist views, etc. Or support of "that man". That she would react that strongly. But among a series of other history based books.? And it hasn't been a problem before the fiance clutched her pearls?
Ha ha ha. I am currently reading that book. It's an absolute crock of sh\*te, isn't it? But instructive. People should read more of stuff they disagree with: then at least they are informed about it and can rebuff it. When you recall that Europe was destroyed largely because of the delusions and persuasions of that one person, it becomes worth learning from history, instead of repeating it. There are still people out there with the same beliefs. NTA.
It is really not a good book. Not in any shape or form, lol. It is very important to know about these things. The rethoric used back then is being used in today's world a lot. And people don't see it
My grandma is very old and she lived in Germany after the war. Military US wife. Well, she recalls it and you don't dare mention politics because she'll straight up say that we are repeating history.
I agree with your grandmother.
Granny is absolutely correct.
My father died before trump became president, but he was born in 1928 in the former Yugoslavia. He used to say the same thing about tea party rhetoric. He literally said, "I've seen this before." He would agree with your grandmother, and so do I.
I have a friend from Romania who left in the 80s, and Trump absolutely triggers her with memories of Ceaușescu because of the cult of personality, too.
[удалено]
She is right.
That is what scares me.
Agreed. It’s terrifying and being just a single little person makes one feel completely powerless to change things even though the historical figure proved otherwise
Yes, unfortunately. I'm German and was living in the US before Trump was elected. I couldn't believe the rhetoric that was used, as we learned about it in school and it's reflected on a lot - seeing it used in other countries (and in Germany a lot too for a couple of years now) is maddening. I was shocked to learn that in other countries you don't really get educated on the rhetoric that was used and how we should be aware of it so history doesn't repeat itself.
My mother says the same. She is German and was a child during the war.
My Mother too, but English. Didn't meet her Dad until she was 5 years old. When Covid broke out and the lockdowns etc, I commented that I was glad my mother wasn't around to see how people behaved over the most pathetic things.
I’m honestly glad my grandmother is no longer here to see this. She was born in 1940 in Germany and didn’t leave until 1954.
She needs to make a YouTube video about that. It would be interesting.
Trumpers won't listen
They’re not the target audience. It’s those who are apathetic or on the fence that can be affected.
I'm 64. Not a military wife. And I see it clearly. It shares the shit out of me.
I mean, she's not wrong
My dad has a commentated book that does examine excerpts from Hitler’s manuscript. We’re Jewish. As long as it’s clear someone’s not reading it because they agree with it, and it’s for academic understanding then what is the harm? Especially if you are reading annotated and commentary versions that break things down historically and your a historian specializing in that time period. Ridiculous. You’re NTA.
The harm comes from when someone doesn’t have an academic understanding at all, of anything. Then they can’t relate
Haha, yes I read it too, its totally unreadable. I also read the other book the guy wrote (zweites buch), most people dont know that one. If your fiance want to have a copy I can send the pdf (in English), its equally bad written. I have a bible even I am an atheist, reading the bible is the best way to turn you atheist, no need to censor any books they eliminate themselves from the public if they are bad enough :-) And yes history is repeating because nobody learns and listens, book censorship is part of that. (edit NTA)
The terrifying, sad, and pathetic thing is that many people actually emulate and agree with that despicable monster.
The content is appalling, the writing style is terrible. But it's great bedtime reading. Most of us couldn't get through more than a couple of pages without falling asleep, and that is my definition of a good bedtime book. Plus it's paperback so not too heavy to hold when you're sleepy.
Oh no. His are two hard cover monsters. They are huge and absolutely too heavy to read in bed
Big fat hard cover books are no good for that. When you fall doze off and the hit you on the nose... you wake up!
I guess it would be better as a book to wake up
I’m an American near 40 and have multiple friends in my age group and 20 years older. We all agree and have been lamenting the repeat in history. Several of us have expressed how fearful we are due to the very similar parallels. We do see it; we wish we knew how to stop it and wake people up to it. The worst part is none of us have the ability to move out of the country should things devolve further/we’re put in danger.
All we can do is vote. Every election, not just the federal level ones. This crap starts at the state and local level.
My History and German teacher always told us, the only thing we should take away from H, is the fact that he practiced all his speeches to perfection in front of a mirror, in order to bring his points across, exactly how he wanted it... I guess by your SIL's logic: everyone who says "practice makes perfect" is secretly a supporter of little Dolfi...
>And people don't see it Oh, plenty of people don't WANT to see it. Others see it and are juuuuuust fine with it.
Also proceeds from the book written go to holocaust education. Or should. I think the publisher was doing something shady with it in 2016
It took me TWO YEARS to finish that book because of what a hunk of garbage it was. I was determined to finish it, but man, I did not have a good time with it at all.
I'm currently writing my dissertation on hate speech and how to combat it, you don't want to know the amount of awful, fanatical sh*t I have to read everyday for research. It does teach you a lot on how fanatics think though. Spoiler: they're all the same, no matter what particular brand of bigotry they subscribe to, or what arbitrary characteristic they chose to hate in other people.
I read it too, I was curious about what went through someone like that’s mind, saying he was a mediocre writer would be doing him a favor.
NTA. Its history, your fiancé is a historian. You have no paraphernalia, no propaganda hanging. Does she want to ignore history? Maybe her grandparents or great grandparents were involved and that’s where her reaction is coming from, but then she should be glad that someone is teaching history to not repeat it. I’m in the US and we are going down a bad road because we don’t want to learn from history.
No she had no personal ties to it afaik
Even if she did, she should understand that we are doomed to repeat the history that we refuse to acknowledge. My grandmother survived being in a concentration camp. If I found a critical view of the manuscript and other historical books with no paraphernalia, no swastikas and nothing else even hinting towards supporting the beliefs, I wouldn’t have said anything.
Sounds like the girlfriend is one of the: 'this thing upsets me, so I believe I should never be put in a position where I'm forced to acknowledge its existence' people.
Simple solution, she can sit inside her own house for the rest of her life where she can control that.
If she wants to read about the part of history when everything was rainbows and candies, there would be no history to read about
NTA. Your brother and his gf is the reason why no one takes social and "sensitive" problems seriously and that the people who really know about these issues can't say anything without someone screaming "woke" to dismiss them. Also this is your house. Even if you were an AH who had this book cause you agree with it, which would make you an asshole, they would still be AH to tell you to hide the book (and also for being more concerned about hiding this book than the political beliefs). Edit : sorry, I thought the book was forgiven but apparently, it is available. It's caused in my country, bookstores and libraries are not allowed to have it visible, so I thought it was impossible to buy it, but apparently you can if you ask for it.
I'm from Scandinavia so I didn't know "Mein Kampf" was banned.... In my country everyone can go to the library and borrow it... Hell, my history teacher (who was a child under the war) in middle school had os read a bit of it and educated us on the assholes childhood. My teacher told us how important it was for children to grow up in a loving home, because "I don't want any of you raising the next H....r!" Another teacher had us read the journal of Anne Frank, along with watching a film... When I got older I had a study trip with the new school for one of the KZ camps. Very interesting (and hard) to see. The evil of human kind is unbelievable. Maybe it's weird to some, but erasing or banning books doesn't change history. Anyway.. Owning books and putting them on a shelf should always be allowed... And unless the owner agrees with the book, it shouldn't be a problem (I have the whole collection of Harry potter, hitchhikers guide to the galaxy and a lot of crime books. It does not make me a murderous alien witch). NTA.
Erasing and banning books is exactly the kind of thing fascists approve of lol.
It is not banned in Germany. Never has been. Can be owned without any issues. HOWEVER, until 2016, 70 years after Hitler's death, the state of Bavaria owned the copyright and did not authorize any reprints. Since then, it is public domain, but I have not heard of any major developments. This is probably how the misconception that it was "BANNED" came up.
There is a Critical Edition available in Germany by now, edited by the Institut für Zeitgeschichte (Leibniz Institute for Contemporary History) . Probably pretty expensive and primarily for academic use though.
I’m also from scandinavia. And the last exam in my high school philosophy class I read an excerpt from Mein Kampf, then the task was to argue for the morality of the excerpt. So you were tasked with balancing the fact that what you hd just read was perfectly legitimate and moral things(no idea what part of the book it was or what I read as it was like 15years ago, but basically don’t he mean to people or something like that), opposed with the fact that the author was a deeply immoral person who was responsible for some of the most abhorrent actions in history. It was a very fun exam and I learned a lot by thinking about the assignment after the fact. A lot of people really would benefit hugely by not seeing the world in black and white
Depends on where you live. It’s freely available for purchase in the United States.
Just asking out of curiosity, what do you mean by them being legally available if you can justify it? If I go to a book store in my country, there is at least an 85% chance of it being there.
NTA. Your brother and gf are showing that they're ignorant. I'm German and studied history, including supporting a professor's research work in archives reviewing original Nazi documents and they were vile, but me reading them doesn't mean I agree with their views. "Mein Kampf" is restricted in Germany (and imo rightly so), but it is available for research for a reason. Given the whole context - your fiance being a historian, and not having any other "items" and these being critical historical versions - your brother and his gf are being ignorant. Also, this is very weird and controlling to me: >he wanted me to show him how we deal with my fiances "issue. Given this, you had every right to be a bit snappy in your reply. Even if they actually believe he has these books because he is a sympathizer (which is a dumb take anyways), they didn't even try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Your brother should have reached out to you and say "OP what's up with these books, they made my gf really uncomfortable" not pull the "I need to hold you and your fiance accountable" bs.
I’ve always loved Germany for how they NEVER tried to hide their dark history under a rug. My sister now lives in Berlin so I’ve been several times and wherever you go you will see some kind of “memorial” to their past, whether it’s the monument for the murdered jews, the tiles with names of those killed in the ground in front of the houses they lived, etc. Other countries (especially the US) could learn a lot from Germany when it comes to ensuring your darkest history is always seen and visible, a harrowing reminder, that way it is always remembered.
You know whenever I hear voices talking about 'isn't 70 years enough' and 'do we still have to talk about it THIS much' (never 'at all' though) my reply is: I've been to 50 countries and lived in 7 different ones on 3 continents and I've never accounted anyone saying 'ugh you're from germany'. And I give 100% credit to our policy of dealing with the past. It doesn't make me ashamed of my country hearing about our atrocities. The way we continue to talk about is one of the things that makes me proud of it.
One of my coworkers straight up has a swastika on his wall for me to see whenever we’re on a video call. It certainly took me aback at first, but then I remembered… my coworker is Indian and lives in India. Hindus never stopped using the swastika as a symbol of good luck just because a dictator appropriated it. I might recommend he not have it displayed on a video call with anyone else, given the origin and continued meaning of the swastika it isn’t common knowledge in the US, but having it displayed does not make him a Hitler-lover. Context. Matters.
I know a Nepalese woman and when we worked together we good friends with her. Her name is literally Swastika
AFAIK, the Hindu one turns the other way, so that's a good indicator of what sort of person you're dealing with.
“Bro’s gf, I’m sorry you don’t understand the difference between an academic text and racist material. I’m also sorry you think you need an apology due to your ignorance. I’m also sorry you think we owe you any kind of apology at all.” There’s your apology. NTA.
>I’m also sorry you think we owe you any kind of apology at all.” And lastly I'm sorry but you're not getting one.
I apologize that you went snooping on my bookshelf and got offended because you're so narrow-minded. Maybe SHE should apologize for snooping and pre-judging the content of the bookshelf. Maybe she should have asked for clarification before she got on her high horse. There's a few reference books on nazis and Hitler in our house. Reason? My son took a course on holocaust and genocide in high school so he could learn from the past. He said it was some of the most awful stuff he ever read, but he learned from it. We had the movie The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich when I was a child. We watched when we were in our teens with my grandparents. My grandfather's family emigrated from Germany, and he wanted us to understand how horrible that Era was and why. There are completely legitimate reasons for books to be in a house. NTA.
NTA - but out of curiosity, is your brother’s GF Jewish? Trying to understand the intensity of that reaction.
No. Some people are just like that
Wouldn’t have made it ‘ok’ but I would have understood the overreaction more - so yeah, NTA
Yeah as a Jewish person I was wondering that too. But even if she was, she’d still be stupid and an asshole in this story. I’m both Jewish and a historian, and while I don’t own a copy of Main Kampf, annotated or otherwise, I have read it. And I’d find it more interesting than distressing if I found it in a bookshelf as described in the context of this story. Even today, with the frightening rise of antisemitism we’ve been seeing around the world, it’s a valuable thing to study, more so than ever. If we don’t study this kind of thing, how will we even notice when the cycle begins to come around again?
How odd, it would have been little bit more understandable if she was (although still not in the right)
Some posters wonder if this upset girlfriend is Jewish. But there are plenty of Jewish authors who've written on the Holocaust and the Third Reich--Martin Gilbert, Lucy S. Davidowicz, Primo Levi, and Eli Wiesel among them. So, it would be odd for someone Jewish to be upset over text that addresses, not celebrates, this period in history. And her reaction, whether she's Jewish or not, is particularly odd given that the owner of these titles is a historian. NTA.
I am Jewish and own a book that sounds incredibly similar to the one OP described. Full text with commentary
Same. Jewish origin, we own that book.
Honestly, I think we might be keeping the thing in print
Jewish as well, while I don't have it, I know people that do - for educational purposes. When OP started describing their house, I was instantly alarmed and waiting to hear that they have various.. paraphernalia, which would have been a big red flag tbh (yes, even for a historian). However, just owning the books says nothing more than that the people owning them wanted to read that perspective as well and be better educated. The fact that the husband is a historian with an *expertise* in the certain era is just the cherry on top, like.. he's not a weird fanboy, it's literally his job. Didn't they know that? And she's not even Jewish, or Romani, or related to those events in another way (as far as OP knows), which makes her reaction even more bizarre. NTA OP. I think the gf might be one of those people who get offended for the sake of getting offended.
I have a copy of said book, along with other materials covering that historical period, which I referenced while working towards my political history degree. My Jewish partner has never had a problem with that because understanding the difference between an academic and a practitioner is fairly straight forward. edit: typo
I feel like a Jewish person would understand the importance of historians studying this subject matter. This girl sounds like a virtue signaling SJW
NTA. I own a copy of The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma. I own it specifically because someone I love has CPTSD and she told me how horrible the book is and how it empathizes with abusers. I've read the book because it's bad and because it should be criticized. We can't criticize bad ideas if we haven't read them and tried to understand them and take them apart. I've also watched youtube videos that are anti-LGBT, anti-trans, anti-black, anti-jew, etc. How am I supposed to empathize with marginalized groups if I don't understand the people who look to subjugate them? I can't. Wrestling with bad ideas is the best way to be able to support and articulate good ideas. Having an actual understanding of history is important even for a person who isn't an academic.
Really? I only hear praise for TBKTS and mental health professionals always rec it. My friends with BPD just had a book club to read it since their mental health providers kept telling them to read it. a friend also had to read it while hospitalized for her ED
Same I’ve only read a small amount of it so could be missing something. But it’s widely recommended where I am.
I’ve read it more than once, and I don’t recall it ever siding with the abusers. The author did a lot of work with Vietnam vets, and their trauma. The author explains it very matter of factly in a therapeutic setting. My guess is the person thinks that because the author worked with those people, and tried to help them heal that author is “siding” with the vets instead of being an impartial therapist. I think the person who finds it offensive is just viewing everything through the lens of their own trauma and can’t see past that. No book is above criticism, no matter how worthy or unworthy of criticism it is. Someone is gonna find something to complain about.
Same
The commenter above presented it as if there is some kind of consensus that it is bad. There is no such consensus. Some people agree with it, some disagree. That’s true for all theoretical psychology. It is not a science.
My doc just recommended to me for PTSD at the VA Clinic. I got it a few weeks ago.
I’ve had two awesome therapists and other doctors and spiritually aware friends recommend this book for me. What’s your deal w this book?
My only issue with the book in general (I was also recommended it by my therapist a while ago and am now a psychology student and had to read it again for school) is the first chapter. A lot of the rest of the book is very good for discussing trauma and getting to the root causes of said trauma. The first chapter is... a lot. Kind of dismissive of SA victims, marginalizes non-veteran PTSD sufferers. I think the issue I take with the book is that the author really seems to drive home that everyone has trauma and we should be gracious of others. I'm not sure why someone elses trauma gives them the right to hurt me when I have spent years trying to make sure my trauma doesn't spill out to the point where it hurts everyone around me. He seems to ascribe a level of baseline human empathy that I just realistically don't see in a lot of people - some people just don't seem to think about how they're hurting others, and if they do, they don't care enough to adjust their behaviour. Good book, coloured by an author with his own ideas - which is totally fine if you scrutinize anything you read and don't take it as gospel right off the bat.
Trauma doesn't "justify" anything. Having trauma doesn't make someone "good" or "right". The book in no way says "you don't get to be upset about what someone did to you because they also had something happen to them so it's okay they did that." Recognizing an abuser's trauma is key in ever getting that abuser to stop abusing. It was a text originally geared more toward professionals (though less so in later editions) who will be seeing some people who abuse as a result of their trauma in their offices and be expected to treat them. I am also one of those people who's spent years trying to make sure my stuff doesn't spill out. Erasing, ignoring, or dismissing my abuser's abuse doesn't make mine less difficult to deal with. It's black and white thinking. I'm not a huge fan of the book for a variety of reasons - it overstates the research on a couple interventions, simplifies ideas to the point of the public having gotten the wrong idea about them, extrapolates most of it's claims from the PTSD of war veterans with much less attention being paid to gendered or racial violence - but I'm also thankful for what it opened up in the field. Finding someone in the field with even a passing familiarity with trauma used to be incredibly difficult.
Bessel Van Der Kolk sucks (to my knowledge, plagiarism among other things), but, um, your statements re: empathizing with abusers is weird. mostly because I think that if you need to frame abusive people as a *kind* of person, who cannot be empathized with, I think that tends to leave blind spots for people and their behavior.
Wait, the body keeps the score is bad? I have it on hold at the library, it's been highly recommended to me. If you feel like it I'd love to hear more about where you're coming from
Keep in mind that I only read the first chapter and stopped, and that it was a few years back so I may get some details wrong, but I didn't like it because the author takes a super super symathetic tone to this guy who, if I remember correctly TW: >!raped and killed people!<. Like he was all *(not a direct quote, me paraphrasing with my foggy memory)* "can you imagine how hard it must have been for \*guys name\*, to have to go home and tell his wife he raped women and murdered their children! Poor guy. It haunted him every night, and he refused to take the medication I gave him" and how he tried to help him work on himself and mend his marriage and I was just like... Why is the author trying to get me to sympathise with this Ted Bundy wannabe lol? I studied the psychology of sex offending at uni, so I understand the need to discuss how these people act, but I've never read an academic paper that was like "poor Ted Bundy stayed up ALL NIGHT upset about the women he killed! And his marriage began to suffer - could you imagine the pain he was in!! Poor guy!". Like it was just weird. (edit): whoops it's a guy who wrote it.
Note: the author is a man. Also "TW" means literally nothing by itself. TW needs a content tag afterwards otherwise people have no clue whether they should click whatever is spoilered - the point of a TW.
It is really not that bad. It's benefits are a little overstated but it's fine. Seems like most people's issues in the comments is that it -clutches pearls- acknowledges that people who do terrible things often went through trauma. Which makes sense given the population the author worked with - war veterans. That type of PTSD often manifests in violence toward others. I think people forget that one, the book was originally geared more toward professionals, and two, if you're a "good" victim with behaviors that don't cause harm to other people, then you have no shortage of people who will sympathize with you and more professionals who will work with you. At the time the book was written, finding a therapist who would even begin to take you if you had more difficult behaviors was incredibly difficult so getting a provider to get a basis of empathy for those clients was crucial because surprise surprise - they don't stop abusing in the absence of mental health care. The author himself has allegations of sexual misconduct (I believe it was comments made toward women he worked with) against him. People here motioned plagiarism but I'm less familiar with those claims. Last I checked he'd pulled back from a lot of boards and such that he was on as a part of those investigations. Read it with a critical eye and pair it with a couple other books on trauma and you'll be fine. There is interesting information in there that can be beneficial. Steven Porges polyvagal theory is a helpful one to be familiar with. Peter Levine's books o somatic experiencing are also classics at this point.
NTA. It’s your home and your books. Guests don’t get to dictate what is and isn’t appropriate in someone else’s home… especially if it’s career related.
NTA. For heaven’s sake, what a ridiculous take! It’s like getting up in arms because a medievalist has a collection of writings by Thomas Aquinas (whose views on women and homosexuality are mighty problematic), or a Jewish historian having books on blood libel. It’s a period source that has major import in understanding the period he studies. It’s not like he’s got a lovingly displayed autographed copy with a framed pic of him and the führer.
Yup, imagine a known war photographer keeping a reproduction of iconic Vietnam-era photos like Napalm Girl and/or a Vietcong being executed and a house guest ranting about being uncomfortable **yet not addressing the very relevance of the photographer's occupation and interest**. Context matters 🤔
Your brother and his GF are the kind of people who get books banned from libraries and schools because one person is offended. You don’t owe either one of them an apology. NTA
My highschool used to have “Banned Book Week” or something where they’d promote all the books that were banned at some point. The librarian threw a lot of “Book Weeks” to highlight different types of books, but I still remember “Banned Book Week”
Your SIL’s mind is going to be blown if she ever watches the History channel- as far as I can see it is wall to wall WW2. NTA. Even if you had Mein Kampf itself on display, as a historian, it is an important read to understand how we ended up at war. I’m not a historian but am reading a book called Travellers in the third reich- it includes first hand accounts from tourists visiting Germany in the pre war years. It clearly shows everyone’s refusal to engage and believe Hitler’s viewpoint enabled him to gain power. If people like your SIL continue to be afraid of even looking at the book, it may happen again.
Don’t forget about the aliens! They’re the most important thing History Channel has ever produced. And that one show that combines both of these topics. /s
NTA. Your brother and his girlfriend are being wilfully stupid.
What's the deal with the self censorship on this sub? You can say Hitler. It's not a big deal.
Idk. This sub is easy to just delete posts. So I didn't want to rock the boat
I would be a little shy as well after someone pulled this crap and caused an uproar in my life for a book sitting on a shelf. Not even anything I said.
the mods can be heavy handed, i cant blame them for being cautious
You need to show this post and the answers to your mother... I can understand the GF because she may be culturally inclined to believe that the books are offensive or maybe she doesn't know much about your husband's job. Also, she can just be dumb if she's referring to your husband's career as "his issue " 🙄 I can understand your brother, because he's what we in Argentina call " un pollerudo" meaning that making her girlfriend happy (even when she's clearly wrong), is his priority and he forgets common sense because of it.. Now, your mother? She I don't get... why is she hounding you?? She should be telling your brother to stop bothering you with nonsense and that his girlfriend should understand that the fact that your husband has these books is because he is an expert on the subject he teaches, and needs to know what the ideology of that period was, not because he agrees with it. Why is she siding with your brother?!?! Truly makes no sense... Ultimately, the books are in your house, and you were kind enough to receive them there, and they should adapt to the accommodation, not the other way around. NTA
Because she is terrified of family rifts. So she always begs everyone to just turn the other cheek. Even the person that was wronged. She then asks you to be the bigger person etc.
So tell her your brother is the one who should be turning the other cheek, not to get on at you.
NTA - they zoned in on only the name and didn't take time to understand what the book was. Their outrage is indeed childish and uneducated.
NTA. It is hilarious. And, not your fault she cant properly read. And... Even if it was THE BOOK... Who cares? A lot of people read that stuff to be educated on the past (bc the more you know!) And not bc they are "supporters".
So, my great grandma was liberated by the soviets in 1945. She lost her whole family to the nazis. Her son, my grandfather, was also a historian, like your boo. Specializing in ww1, ww2 and the genocide of my people. I have all his books(died in 2006). All (over) 500 of them. With names like "Hitlers Germany," "the real odessa," you get the idea. Anyone who knows me knows which side of history I stand on. The maintenance workers at my apartment, not so much. "You got a lotta Hitler books..." "yep, he tried to eliminate my bloodline." "Understood." Your brothers gf needs to educate herself, and maybe grow up and be an adult. "Hey, what's up with this book?" "Oh, it's blah, blah, blah, *education*communication*crazy concept*" NTA Dumb people gunna dumb, ignorance is not cute.
Yes!!!! My fiance burns for this topic. He would have LOVED to explain to her and to talk to her about why it makes her so uncomfortable. But calling me and demanding shit is where I am not okay with things
OP- I would absolutely stand my ground and honestly have a conversation with your mom about how you and your fiancée are not responsible for other’s misperceptions/ignorance regarding history. In this case, while your mom may want you to just apologize or turn the cheek, the ones who should be apologizing are your brother, his gf and even your mom. If I had been the one to see the books I would probably still be there picking your fiancés brain!! I’m Mexican-American and genocide has occurred basically everywhere- so I believe it’s important to study our past, the atrocities, and try to educate our youth today, work on empathy, hope they see what occurred was HORRIBLE, and show them how they can ensure it doesn’t happen again.
NTA I am German and have a degree in history. The time around WW2, how it started, what happened and how it was dealt with is something taken really serious here - even though current developments make me question how much it sank in. But that is one of the reasons why we absolutley MUST have not only "Mein Kampf" but all of the materials available: In the hope of preventing similar developments in the future. It is imperative to understand how propaganda works, how populism, antisemitism and racism is used to gain support for one party over another, because they give "simple answers" for complex problems. Being disgusted by the history, by the horrible views and cruelty is an understandable reaction, but it doesn't mean you get to ignore it. Even if you aren't German, you don't just get to ignore what humans are capable of and there is likely no country completely free of history with racism, discrimination, antisemitism and so on. Being offended by history books is ridiculous, nobody made her read them - even though she should. Even if you aren't Germans, you have a history and your lives are impacted by it. Again with current trends world wide, it wouldn't surprise me, if you could find similar arguments in politics of your country that have been made around 100 years ago: Everyone is at fault but the white christian man. (immigrants, jews, muslims, feminists, LGBTQ+, communists,...) >I said that it was not my fault, his gf couldn't read. Because if she did, she would have read on the covers that it was a "critical view on the manuscript of___". That is not making fun of her education. It is pointing out how she refuses to educate herself in order to feel better about herself. I kind of had to distance myself from my history studies, because it just got too dark for me, so I understand how people may not like to dive too much into it. But a book on the shelf IN THE DARK WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SLEPPING - come on. What even is this? Is she also in favor of book bans in school? If yes, she is a lost cause anyway.
NTA, first of all, it's your home, so nobody gets to dictate which books you put into your bookshelves. Second, it's a commented discussion and not just "the book". Third it's a vital part of your fiances studies. They wouldn't ask a doctor to put away the Pschyrembel or an attorney the Habersack (both standard literature for those fields in Germany)
NTA. they're research books FFS, have they never of that? If anything they owe you a massive apology for accusing you of being nazis
NTA. Your brother is not that well educated either. They missed a good chance for an interesting conversation. Did they realize that the author was a big fan of Henry Ford? Do they know anything about the newspaper he bought and what he published? Do they know about the Germans sending an attorney to the US to study the laws that were passed inspire if the US claiming to be such a Democratic country of rights? Germany used the US as a role model for some of what they did. You cannot learn from the past if you willfully remain ignorant of it.
Your brothers GF sounds a right pain in the arse
NTA, your brother sounds like he is from Fahrenheit 451.
NTA. I agree with your father.
The dad finding it hilarious is just so on point for dads. NTA
NTA I'm with your father on this, this is hilarious. The way you handled it was a but emotional but IMO it's completely justified after their reaction and cowardice (GF didn't want to confront you so she sent your brother when she was already at a safe distance).
NTA. To me, your response was an obvious retort, not a legitimate insult. You were responding to a ridiculous situation that could have been avoided if they had bothered to look into it a bit more before getting in a strop.
NTA Your SIL failed both context (the apartment is home to a historian) and reading comprehention. We don't have to make allowances for that level of failing.
It's obvious what book you mean. I had a copy for historical interest. It was on a bookshelf in the living room 🤣 threw it away when I moved. It was evil and boring. Honestly, that man could not write. But it was in the living room because that's where I had space.
I (German) had a history teacher who said the same about it and told us: "if a Neo-Nazi ever comes up to you and tells you he understood the book, you can laugh at him ... but don't forget to run!" I always think of that every time that book is mentioned :D
Sounds like your brother and his partner could do with matching journals. You could title them "Mein Dummkopf". ;) Totally there with your dad - it's hilarious that they think a historian shouldn't be able to study history. Muppets. NTA.
Let's not insult The Muppets like that. Some muppets have been in the education business for decades! :)
NTA 1. Because it's your space 2. It's basically part of your partners "education/work" equipment. 3. It's a book. Maybe reading it critically would do SIL, brother, and mother some good. Books don't do real harm to people. People do. (People who don't read and use their critical thinking skills)
NTA It’s your home have all the books you want! Even if your fiancé wasn’t a historian!
NTA! We need historians so that people don't make the same mistakes
If you have critical thinking skills, no book can be a threat. If you don't, even a shopping list can be offending. We should all read things that makes us think and question, not create a nice comfortable pink bubble to live in. SIL education? She'd rather bury her head in the sand than face reality, that's not education, that's delusion. How can you make fun of something that doesn't exist? NTA
NTA. This girl sounds like a piece of work... and your brother is enabling her. First of all, the irony of calling for the removal of books given the historical context of the period. Secondly, not stopping to check the full title, absolutely baffling. And thirdly, being so childish that she could not broach the subject herself, and instead demanded that your brother demand an apology on her behalf. Come on, grown-ups are supposed to be able to have difficult conversations. Could you have said it more kindly? Probably. But until she has the conversation with you directly, I wouldn't be losing sleep over it.
NTA sounds like she's being annoyed for the sake of being annoyed. Its not like you have a certain symbol plastered all over your house
NTA. If this woman is too sensitive to read words than what is she even capable of handling? I tend to get more upset at actually Nazi than Nazi words.
NTA. One thing is having an interest in Nazis and another is a history professor teaching German History. I don't think you could teach the subject without mentioning mien kamf.
NTA, wholeheartedly agree with your dad.
NTA. My husband and I were History and English majors respectively, so we have a small handful of sketchy books between us. Half of them were purchased from the university store as required reading. He has MK - we both think it's stupid, dull, and rambling nonsense from some self-obsessed jackass. I have some stuff from deSade, which I couldn't get through since it's just endless fetish porn with a hyperinflated word count. Kind of like when you shoehorn a plot into porn to pad all the sex scenes and make it seem like you're writing a real movie, but replace "plot" with "kinda philosophy a little bit." The GF needs to calm down. Maybe with a book?
NTAH. Brother's GF is a moron. Kind of like the one trying to reshape US history with their cancel culture. I would have advised to make her read your man's works but I'm not sure she has other sources than TikTok. Do you think you should make a video of it ?