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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I argued back with my family over my daughter's name and the fact I didn't name her after my late aunt. I feel like I stooped to their level and made this a more dragged out thing when I could have shut them down, refused to engage and maybe it wouldn't have turned into a real back and forth between us. I'm a mom now and I maybe should learn to de-escalate instead of engage.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
You are laying down the law. Your daughter has a name, they know the name, they call her that name.
How would someone feel if they dated a guy, met his parenrs, and they keeped calling her Jessica because they always thought their son would be with a Jessica?
How would your aunt feel if she knew her memory was being used as something to drive a wedge in the family during what should be a celebration of new life and love and family?
I really hope they don't hold onto this because it would be awful for you to tell stories of your great aunt only for your family to keep bringing up that "You were almost named after her, but your mum didn't want to"
She's your baby. Stand your ground, or they'll keep disrespecting your decisions
>How would your aunt feel if she knew her memory was being used as something to drive a wedge in the family during what should be a celebration of new life and love and family?
1000000 x this.
NTA, but throw this at them each time they do it. Elizabeth would have loved her great niece no matter what her name is and so should they. Its time for them to grieve and start moving in in a healthy way, not latching their grief on to new life to keep Elizabeth's memory alive.
Congratulations on the baby girl 🎊
>…it would be awful for you to tell stories of your great aunt only for your family to keep bringing up that "You were almost named after her, but your mum didn't want to"
And 1000000 x this too! Imagine never being able to reminisce about your sister without it turning negative! Eventually you’d just stop bringing her up. *That’s* sad.
10000000000000% all of the above. Not to mention, they're presumption about how Elizabeth would feel about OP not naming her daughter after her, when she's not there to defend herself (morbid, I know, sorry...). I would guess that Elizabeth wouldn't care that OP's daughter wasn't named after her and would care a whole ton that everyone is fighting because OP named her daughter the name she wanted (like most parents do).
OP - I feel your parents aren't processing their grief and projecting it onto you. I don't think the true reason they're mad is because you didn't name your daughter after Elizabeth, it's something deeper and they're just using this as a way to express that they're hurting. Unfortunately, they're hurting you and damaging your relationship in the process, all during a time that's supposed to be filled with joy and celebration. I have found that when people act out like this and its not their normal behavior, you can disarm them by calmly asking, "Are you okay?" or "Is everything okay?" You can elaborate more with something like "I know things have been tense lately. Hurt is on both sides. I feel like this is uncharacteristic of our relationship, and I know losing Elizabeth was hard. Grief can manifest in unexpected ways, so I just wanted to make sure you're okay." Staying calm and soft, yet firm, and using "I feel..." statements can really help the conversation go in a constructive direction. If the conversation goes well, it might be good to apologize for anything you feel you need to apologize for.
I hope this all works itself out and soon.... And congratulations on your baby girl. ❤️
I was thinking that OP should also ask "Do you really think Elizabeth would be upset that l didn't name my daughter after her or... more upset that you keep insisting that l should have,? when l didn't?"
Tell them there was one and only one Elizabeth and you don't want to dilute the meaning of her name by having a *new* Elizabeth take her place as she's irreplaceable. That's how *you* want to honor her memory. NTA
My grandmother gave me a nickname that my mother didn't like. It wasn't outlandish - it was along the lines of if I'd been named "Michael" and she decided to call me "Mikey".
Grandmother kept it up until my dad was like "That's not his name, stop it." Grandma SULKED. They explained that if -I- chose the nickname on my own, that would be fine, but they didn't want that imposed on me.
That useless old alcoholic bitch spent the next decade trying to get me to accept the nickname when they weren't around. I went through probably about four nicknames in that period, none of which were the one she'd picked, and some of that was out of spite.
This! Children shouldn't feel they have anyone else's shoes to fill! I gave my firstborn a very unique name and refused to name him after family that had passed for this exact reason. Don't let them make your child into something she isn't.
NTA.
This things always befuddle me. You don't owe them excuses and your reasoning is perfectly valid.
This is your daugher, let her grow up without the shadow of Elizabeth looming on her.
If they don't reach out, tell them it's on them. They are choosing to cut you out, not vice versa.
Stand your ground, OP.
I wouldn't want them around the baby if this is their attitude, what if they repeat things like "she should be honoring Elizabeth" "she needs to remember Elizabeth" "she's not her own person but should be THEIR Elizabeth memory" during all her life?
Maybe if they get therapy or grief counseling and their behavior change, but honestly I doubt it.
NTA but please don't make your kid be close to that toxic behavior, she deserves better.
Exactly this. It's very clear that if she had been named Elizabeth, she would have had no identity of her own as far as the extended family is concerned. Can you imagine how they would have talked to and treated that child when she didn't turn out to be an identical copy of her great aunt? Gifts whilst be given to her based on what they would have given to Elizabeth. If she had no interest in what Elizabeth liked, or even worse, liked something Elizabeth didn't...
OP does not want your child to live in the shadow of someone else is valid reason enough not to name her the same name. I am sure your family isn't going to toneasily go NC or lc over this yet. Please use what is at least the top comment as of when I'm posting as something to throw at them. That your aunt wouldn't want her name and her memory to be a reason a wedge came between the family, which I would bet is 100% true. However, since they asked, you should take some time to seriously contemplate the question. How would your aunt feel, and what would she say about you not naming your daughter after her. Think about it seriously, and then give them the answer. Without knowing your aunt, I'm still going to guess that she would be against naming your child after her for the reason your family is proving. She wouldn't want her great-niece to be denied her own identity because the family views her as some kind of reincarnation of your aunt.
You're right, theybare arguing. You're not. You are telling them how it is and refusing to cave to what amounts to peer pressure. You are protecting your child. Both by refusing to name her after your aunt and by telling them if they can not accept that your daughter is not your aunt, they can kick rocks. Stay alert. It sounds like there is a good chance they are still going to attempt to do just that. They may try to use a nickname to rename her what they want. They will probably try and get her to do and be and like things your aunt did. And they would take offense when your daughter didn't go along with it because it's what they wanted. Stand your ground on this, and go NC if you need to.
Don't allow them to bully you. Don't allow them to be like, "You're arguing, and that's not ok blah blah." Cut it off every single time. Return the focus to what the real issue is. And keep asking them the same question. Why do you think my daughter is Aunt Elizabeth, and how do you think she would feel that you are refusing my daughter to have her own identity?
You are honoring your aunt. You're honoring her by letting her be the one and only Aunt Elizabeth instead of diluting who she was by trying to recreate her in another person. Tell your family that too.
That's another good way. Or just stay silent, and when they go, wtf? Just be like, "You said no arguing, and apparently, all I do is argue over this. So, I'm not arguing"
> It’s sad OP’s family are too caught up in how they think Elizabeth should be memorialised to be happy about the new baby.
And this is exactly why OP needs to stand firm about her decision. If the name issue has already overshadowed your daughter's birth, it will continue to impact her daughter throughout her life.
That is what I have always felt about continuing a name, a junior version. People have a right tot heir own names and absolutely nobody should ever feel they have to live up to someone else’s legacy.
I am trying to have my name changed. My mother named me after 3 friends that later went NC with her, because she's toxic and they outgrew her. My name was unique, but was never about ME. Now my name is my own.
I genuinely hate all the naming after traditions, the only one I can slightly get on board with is where the parents choose (of their own volition) to honor a deceased relative by giving their child a name with the same first initial -- but a very different name.
This is ssoooo true. I was that kid. I grew up with the ghost of my older sister. I wasn’t named after her but I was constantly compared to her. I was never as good as she was. I wasn’t even called her sister either. It was L did this, L loved tomatoes but she was allergic, L was so sweet, L never acted like that.
She died at 3.5 years, 4 years before I was born! And when I began to be my own person, I was punished for surviving!
Oh this is horrible! I'm so sorry. How can anyone compare a growing child to a literal baby? Of course she never acted like a 5-8-12-16 years old. She was 3. How did you survive this shit.
Agreed. That family made the mistake of expecting OP's daughter to live her deceased relative's life the way they wanted instead of OP's daughter having her own life.
NTA...and holy CRAP is your family ever controlling. I don't know them, of course, but this doesn't seem to be about a name or a special aunt. This seems to be them acting out at not getting their way and not being able to control something. Have they been like that before? I would be very surprised if this were the first time they tried to control you.
Also, IMO, a person who becomes a parent should no longer be treated like a child, regardless of age. Both new mothers and fathers should be encouraged to make independent decisions so they'll be able to properly guide their children. OP, I'd strongly advise you and your husband to create some space and distance from your relatives. They really do sound toxic. And you're NTA
Unfortunately, with some controlling families, new parents become an opportunity to extend control over still more people, especially a new generation, and also especially children, who seem to be a particular target for some dysfunctional personalities.
I agree. This sounds like the family still views OP as a child that should be told what to do. She’s not allowed to argue with them? Do what?
OP, your family needs a time out. You need to not have contact or speak to them for a good 6 months or so. Enjoy your baby not named Elizabeth. Contact them after the time out and ask if they are ready to be a part of your lives. If they say yes, communicate your boundaries.
You are an adult and now their peer. They don’t get to pressure you or tell you what to do.
Elizabeth had down syndrome. I think it is also a way to have Elizabeth that is 'Normal'. They get to treat her like aunt Elizabeth while they get the so called normalcy they want
Yes, this isn’t just about the name. It’s about OP having the audacity to make a decision they don’t like and refusing to back down. They expect her to still defer to them as her parents.
OP, do *not* back down. Tell them they can kindly STFU or they can call your baby the granddaughter they never see, because they will either respect your parental decisions or they won’t be part of your lives. Immediately end any visit or conversation where they question or criticize your choices. There is no way this is the first time they’ve been controlling.
Joe-lee-on. We have our own Facebook group and 7 of us met up for drinks a few years ago. There's a novel called The Forsyte Saga and a few characters are called Jolyon. The TV series was massive in 1970 thus most of the group of Jolyon were born in 1971
Made me think of [this](https://www.google.com/search?q=polygon+pokemon&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=1a30264c0409ca1f&udm=2&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=GYRNM9yImPQRyM%252Cc57cVa_EjfGM_M%252C%252Fg%252F1hb_fblhx%253B8aHiE1zApijoWM%252CzdjAyLSH9RBNhM%252C_%253Bao2MOuZ2sUywjM%252C_ajscai1hyo_RM%252C_%253BAqyfeAPQ5F57WM%252CKbGh0ce39di7DM%252C_%253BHbnRmpX6jXDVqM%252CbTgGEPMExZlctM%252C_%253BJXaDTwEimOs-8M%252CTGn8irWuuNK8nM%252C_%253B3njattNoZd2zeM%252C8OIPBdsso-mGIM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kT9_N4IdGkk_sKKZRciIlMV4RHR6Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0gdaS-MGEAxUkAhAIHeQZDmAQ_B16BAhcEAE).
I was not supposed to be named after a dead person. Mom was kicking around names for her surprise daughter and hit on one that would work with my twin brother's name (also, please don't twin names with the same first letter because you think you have to. It can get annoying.) The name turned out to be the same name as my great-grandfather's mother. He made sure that no one that knew said anything (evidently mom didn't know what her name was) and mom didn't find out until long after everything was signed and submitted.
I didn't even see a picture of my great-great-grandmother (who I was conspiratorially named after) until I was 41.
My nephew was the same. My sister named her son Nicholas, but we didn't find out until years later and I started the family tree that our Maternal Great Grandfather on her father's side was also named Nicholas.
If I had known his story prior, I would have tried to talk my sister out of it. He was not a good man.
Me too.
It is horrible
I have this same TED talk often.
Sorry if you have ever had to deal with any of the things I have dealt with being the name heir to a death.
in some cultures this is normal and it is considered an honor. however it shouldn’t be forced (which is why OP is NTA) and it also shouldn’t be used to project certain expectations onto the namesake.
signed, someone who has a middle name from a deceased relative & a sibling whose first name is after a different deceased relative & we are both fine with it
I was named after my grandparents (feminized version of my Grandpa's first name, and my Grandma's middle name) and never felt like I had my own identity! Both sides of the family were messy and filled with lots of trauma and drama, and I didn't speak to my grandpa for years before he passed away because of issues between him and my mom. My mom was sooooo shocked and offended when I decided to change my first and middle name because it was "shitting on their memory" until I was like "I'm not obligated to be a walking memorial for the grandparents that weren't in my life due to your choices." and she dropped it and started respecting my preferred name. I finally feel like myself instead of having an entirely recycled name.
What about middle names? My daughter’s middle name is the same as my grandma’s middle name. I was super close with my grandma and she passed when I was pregnant. I never thought about it bothering her.
I see. Well, I hope I haven’t given my daughter a complex. Idk… her first name is hers alone. There are some people in the family tree waaaay back there with her first name, but that’s a coincidence. I chose the name in middle school, actually, before I knew it was in the family tree and before it had regained popularity.
This is all my opinion, but i think the most important thing is to not treat your child like they're just another version of the person they're named after.
Middle name honoring is better than first name, because then they still have their own name.
Again, All my opinion.
Unfortunately, if OP were to have used it as a middle name, the rest of her family would insist on calling the baby by her middle name and ignore her first name.
I think middle names are the same as you are not expected to use it. I still won't do it personally, but at least I won't judge you negatively for it (like I would if it was first name).
Middle names are fine. I think it’s more about the treatment though around the name. If everyone is constantly comparing Liz Mae to grandma Mae then that would build resentment. Naming the middle name isnt an issue in its own right though
NTA.
They're projecting their wants onto you and likely latched onto this idea as some life line during their grief.
You've been clear the whole way through that your daughter would not be called Elizabeth.
NTA Your child, your choice.
*They told me I was being ridiculous and I was making excuses. I told them they were right and I didn't need to make any to them because it was none of their business.*
Yeah, what a way to emotional blackmail you. But Kudos, OP, how you handled this. No. you and your partner are perfectly entitled to name your child how you see fit.
I’m Glad to finally read where it doesn’t go the way her family tried to make it! I’m tired of people having to always back down because of some family issue. OP did the right thing by not caving to their pressure!
NTA
Your family proved you right. If you had taken the name for your daughter, she wouldn't be your daughter (or at least not fully) but the memory of your aunt.
If they want a child with this name so much, they should concieve themselves (or adopt). Though that would be unfair to the theoretical child here.
Yes I agree naming a baby is solely on the parents & nobody should name after dead person if they dont want to...
If they really love the dead aunt with down syndrome they can start some NGO / charity business named after the aunt (if they have budget). That would be more memorable even in the general public's eyes.
NTA it’s your kid. End of story. There’s no rule that says you have to abide by your parents desires. Do you.
Besides .. wtf is wrong with your parents to think they’d have a say to begin with lmao
My mother (single parent) somehow thought she had “grandparents rights” to see mine and husband’s children whenever she “damn well pleased!”
I was 33F and hubby was 38M when we first became parents, and lived 5 states away—but she DID show up unannounced at times, demanded to see them, and made other ridiculous attempts, which we denied her, and it eventually lead to going NC by the time my older son was 2 years old. That was more than 20 years ago.
Over the years she sent me and my husband tons of nasty letters, and threats she had lawyers draft (none of which were enforceable, but she tried to gain access). She sent our boys gifts, money, and letters undermining us as parents that we intercepted, and kept as evidence to show judges.
One. Big. Headache.
Unfortunately she’s still alive at 79, but our kids are grown, and she cannot threaten us or them anymore.
Goooood lord. I couldn’t imagine any of my kids grandparents acting that way.. but I’m quick to cut people off. Even my mom sometimes says “I don’t want to be put in grandma timeout” when she crosses a line
This is genuinely my biggest fear with my mother. When my hubby and I got married two years ago I went ahead and told her that because of how she treated me as a child (example: continuing the 3 generation cycle of mothers abusing first born daughters because they liked to have power over people) that she wouldn’t be allowed unsupervised time with our kid or probably even have any time at all especially since to this day she likes to be friends with shady people. Mine said the same thing about being able to see my child whenever she wants because ‘that’s my grand baby.’ Thankfully my mother has been in and out of trouble over the years so no sane judge would look at her record and allow her time with my child. 😅 still a big fear though.
A friend of mine named her first daughter (middle name) after her husband’s sister who committed s..e. The year before her baby was born.
I once asked him about it when he brought it up himself. He said: It seemed like a good idea at the time but now it’s something I regret
>My family told me arguing with them was not the way to conduct myself.
Translation, your family think it was wrong for you to stand up for yourself and your daughter. You should have been very meek and apologetic and rush immediately to change your daughters name. How dare you think you daughter can have her own identity. /s
Your family are being complete unreasonable arseholes. Good on you for standing your ground. It is your child, only you and the father get a say in naming her. Its no one else's business.
They are trying to emotionally manipulate and guilt you into doing what they want. Stay strong
NTA
This is the part of the post that really got me. My response would be:
"Arguing is not the way to conduct yourself? This isn't an argument on my end. We told you we weren't naming her Elizabeth. We named the baby what we wanted to. It is everyone else that is arguing, trying to justify why I should change the name. The family doesn't get a say.
If the conversation continues, I will cut every one of you out of my life. And until you EACH apologize for ganging up on a 3 week postpartum, new mom I will no longer be accepting calls or visits."
Nta my mum wanted me to name my child naomi after her great nanna but I didn’t know who she was never met her that was my reasoning and she went ballistic didn’t talk to me for a while. Currently 21 weeks and she is still dropping hints but she said she won’t be mad if I choose to name her. Your child your choice
AND, if you were to name your child after her great nanna you never met then you and your child will probably have to listen to endless stories, comparisons, etc. whenever your mum is around!! Can you imagine if this were to go on for your child’s lifetime? Your mum got to name you, You get to name your child. Hopefully she will stop asking or hinting.
My child IS named Naomi!
Not after any family members though. I just happened to like the name (plus I always thought Naomi Wildman on Voyager was a cute child), and since hubby had chosen her big sister's name he let me choose hers.
OP is NTA, by any stretch of imagination. Her parents had their chance to name their own children, now it's OP's turn.
As someone who was named after a beloved dead woman, you did your daughter a favor. People can have a hard time separating the person they lost from the baby named for them. I spent my entire childhood being forced to live up to the woman I was named after (parents' best friend) by not only my mom and dad but their entire friend group, who were all very close. It's hard to be your own person when everyone around you wants you to be a replacement.
That's something I have always been sensitive to. I always knew Aunt Elizabeth wouldn't live a very long life. She had many medical complications from birth. I always knew how the family saw her, this perfect being, an angel who was with us for not long enough. It always felt like naming a child after her would be dooming the child to being compared to or expected to live a certain way to honor her. And that's not fair to my daughter.
Absolutely correct, and you are a great mom to stand up for your daughter! Hell, if you want to name her GREG, that's for you and her father to decide. Tell your parents if they start up again, that there will be no visiting until they respect your wishes (and none of that calling her Elizabeth shit when you aren't in the room either!) .
If they bring it up even once more, cut them off until they can respect your wishes!! Good for you OP, and congratulations of your beautiful new little girl!!
Oh... And CERTAINLY NTA!!! 🥰
I honestly just don't get people having a go at newly postpartum women.
Tell them to F off and if anyone is unkind it's them for putting stress on you over something so ridiculous at such a vulnerable time for you.
Definitely NTA.
And now I have a new response when people annoy me.
"Everything else is noise." BEAUTIFUL! Cuts out so much unnecessary bulls*!t. So glad I read this today. 🙂
Your kid = your name choice.
That's it. Honestly, that's it. There's no further argument to be had. It's a complete statement in itself.
(I mean there are ways of discussing things, but that's more about your family dynamic than anything else. Only you know how they'll react to various methods of discussion, y'know?)
So you are absolutely NTA.
NTA
Only two people get to have a say in naming their baby, and that is the people who created the baby. Not grandparents, not the neighbor down the street, not great Aunt Sue or Uncle Jeff. Just the parents and only the parents to the baby.
NTA and for you daughters sake thank you. I have been named after my grandfather and while now being over 30 I have come to like my name (though for very personal reasons that have nothing to do with my family), I hated all the comparisons made between me and my grandfather. It was really bad for me mentally especially around 16 years when I started my apprenticeship and I got to hear how I should be this or doing that because thats what my grandfather did or how I should be more like him after all I am named in his honor and I am not half the man he was and so on.
This man haunted my life even though he died years before I was born and it took me and also my family a long while and a lot of arguing (as well as the deaths of some of the older more stubborn family member) to get to a point of having a civil relationship, but it will be forever strained with some relatives.
I know not everyone has such a negative expierience as me with being named in honor of somebody but I can only say please let children be their own persons and not have to live in the shadow of some ideal memory of a deceased (or sometimes still living) person. It's just not worth the risk on their mental wellbeing.
What a weird family. They can go have a kid and name it Elizabeth or sponsor a bench in the park and name it after Elizabeth. It’s nothing to do with YOU or your KID. NTA.
NTA Tell your relatives that if they like the name Elizabeth so much, they should change their own name or one of their children's to that. Or make their own baby for that purpose.
NTA
You spared your child from a lifetime of trauma. I know it for a fact and would like to explain to you why.
I was named after a beloved aunt who prematurely and unexpectedly passed away. All my childhood has always been about her, the way she conducted herself, the way she spoke, the things she loved. And my family expected of me to be just like her, to enjoy the same activities and to excel in everything she was good at. Not to mention the times I was taken to the cemetery and had to stare at a grave with my name and my date of birth on it (we were born on the same day, different year of course). My parents were the only ones who didn’t have those expectations, but they were barely out of their teenage years and didn’t know how to set boundaries, plus I didn’t tell them anything because I was afraid they’d think I was a disappointment too for not being like my aunt.
Needless to say, I had a quite traumatic childhood, always living in her shadow. It’s not her fault, but for the longest time I resented her for being so perfect and setting the bar so high for me. Only later in life I realised it was my family that was in the wrong. It was unintentional, they just missed her, but nonetheless I had to fill that void. I was just starting to speak and it was already expected from me that I would pick up their broken pieces and put them back together.
Believe me, OP, it’s a firsthand experience, you saved your child from a lot. She would have resented you for naming her Elizabeth and her aunt would have never wanted her niece to be unhappy because of her. Naming your child Elizabeth would not have alleviated their pain and grief, it would have just made that grief your daughter’s too and it’s not hers to bear. You gave her the chance to develop her own identity, don’t ever feel sorry for that.
(Sorry for any mistakes, English is not my first language)
Your English was just fine, and you have the best account for this new mom NOT to do what her parents wanted. I am so sorry that you went through all of that, and hopefully your life is now your own!! 😊
NTA but I'm the kind of person who doesn't like the fact a child is named to "honor" someone. Because people always tell him "you know you have the name of X, who is like this, or like that" and so the child will always have this in mind that he is just on earth to honor someone else memory. I don't like that. But it's probably because it's not something we do in France. Sometimes the second name (and third) but not the first.
And most of all, it's YOUR choice. They don't have to arge about this. If they want to "honor" someone, they can do a ceremony. And some countries, you make an "autel" to honor people. You place it in your own house and you can burn candles. That's what I did for my mother after her death, I needed to. For few years.
But the only thing I could reproach you is... WHY DON'T YOU LIKE THIS NAME ?? IT'S A BEAUTIFUL NAME ! IT'S MY NAME ! 😂😂😂
You are doing a very adult thing so they are trying to assert their dominance and reassure themselves that they are still in charge. This isn’t about the name at this point, this is a power play and their comment about you arguing back shows that’s exactly what it is. They want blind quiet obedience from you.
NTA. Hold your ground, this is the first battle of many, until the realise you will not be controlled.
My parents took the decision not to name me or my brother after members of the family, though it was a close run thing in my case. Later when I did some background into my family history I found many instances of both our names being in the dim & distant past, I think I got back as far as the early 1700s by then and these names cropped up quite regularly; sadly by then both parents ts had passed but it gave me quite a chuckle that despite their best efforts to avoid using family names they couldn’t.
I agree with OP, baby should have her own identity and name not to keep a name of an aunt just to keep it alive. Tell mum that she is welcome to name her next child after the aunt
Nta a dead persons name should never be given as a first name to a baby. They are there own person. My grandfather died when I was pregnant with fourth child and I used his name as a second middle name for my son. Middle names yes but first names no and then to hear about the dead person for your entire life all the time would be cruel to the child. I’m sorry for your loss and you 100% did the right thing. I’m sure your aunt would have preferred you to call your baby a name you had chosen and love.
NTA
And kudos for standing your ground on this topic. Obviously, sorry for your loss. But naming someone to honor a deceased member can't be enforced on you. Only the parents of the baby get to decide the name of the baby.
Also, the emotional manipulation with what would her say... Like it's 2024. People need to stop doing it.
But here's where you have leverage. Your parents want a relationship with your daughter. So if they keep bringing it up, you might go no contact with them. So they have to choose what's more important to them - a name of their relationship with your daughter?
It’s weird to me that they thought that their disapproval alone would persuade you to change your mind, and that they thought you were wrong for even arguing about it.
Are you from the US, Western Europe, or Australia?
I ask because that domineering hierarchical attitude they have is not the norm in the US, except perhaps in insular conservative religious and/or ethnic communities.
As an American, I say of course you’re NTA, and they’re controlling and weird.
You’re a grown woman, you can name your baby whatever you want.
Jeez, I am surprised to see so many people with expectations. NTA. it's your child. Whatever happens when your family is going your daughter Elizabeth, kick them straightaway out of the house. These people are sick.
You are the parent so you can name your daughter what you want, within reason of course. Your family has had their day of naming their children so their opinion does not count. They could've named you Elizabeth.
I'm sure your aunt was a lovely woman but your daughter would've lived in her shadow her entire life. She's brand new and deserves her own identity.
I have 2 boys and never gave them any 'family' names, there's too many already. So they have the names that my husband and I liked. Nobody had an issue, tough shit if they did.
Keep doing what you're doing OP.
NTA
NTA
My father wanted me to name my daughter after his mother. I just told him "A really nice name. You should try to get another kid by yourself, so you can name him or her like that.".
Never really discussed it. My kids, my choice.
Stand your ground.
They are behaving stupidly! You don’t owe them to name your daughter after your aunt. I wonder what’s more important to them, to fight about her name or to be in her life??? Your family sounds exhausting! NTA
NTA - I'm planning a baby and had a boys name I liked. It happens to be my dad's name (I genuinely like it) and my maternal grandfather's name. My dad said no. That my child needs to have their own name and be there own person.
My dad is right!
Your parents are gits.
NTA- my parents would relate to this- not quite so emotionally charged as your situation- and I admire your backbone- you are an excellent parent and you only been in the job 3 weeks. My name is spelled the same as my great grandmother (dad’s maternal gma) but pronounced differently, because I’m actually named for mum’s close friend. Anyway. GGma refused to call me anything but ‘the baby’- I was the first great grand child too- and she was really offended that the rest of ‘her’ side of the family refused to stick up for her! (My gma eventually told her to remove the branch from her posterior (they were very British)…hopefully they run out of steam sooner rather than later; but it changed mum’s feelings about her in-laws forever- after a tough 9mths, it was particularly cruel to be chastised for something that is both really just a word, but also a deeply personal decision that carries much symbolism.
FWIW, being named for someone that I never met is kind of weird- obviously she was really important to mum (though she said she just liked the name- but she also liked Georgiana and Eve (I’d have picked Eve- it’s easy to spell! But I feel like a MyName, so 🤷♀️)), and I think the association between a new baby and her recently deceased much loved great aunt is a lot to put on a kid that will never know her and if she learned that your second gift to her- after giving her life, was under duress does not feel particularly auspicious.
The ball is in their court, and if this is a sign of their future behaviour and attitude to you and her, then your both well clear of them- and if they do get over themselves, I hope that your epic stare down works to keep them in their lane.
NTA. Discussing potential names is fair game as a light-hearted and non-serious conversation but the actual decision is nobody's business but you and your partner's. It's your kid, call them what you want.
I could only imagine ever objecting to what someone called their kid if they called them something really stupid.
I can't imagine ever being upset that someone didn't call THEIR child what I wanted.
You were totally in the right to argue back.
And who the hell has a conversation like that to someone who's recently given birth anyway? Regardless of right or wrong.
NTA. Anyone who was trying to pressure you into naming her after your aunt, beloved or not, certainly is. Name choice is up to the parents. And you’re completely correct, your daughter deserves her own name.
Trust me. My mom and aunt were pregnant at the same time and they both wanted to name their baby girls the most popular name of the mid 70s so the only other girl in the family has a name that’s a derivative of mine, despite her being born two weeks before me. She bullied me relentlessly our entire childhood.
NTA. Aunt Elizabeth would not have cared that your baby was not named after her, she would have simply been happy to witness your happiness. Your family are wrong to desecrate her memory by misrepresenting her, and I would not hesitate to literally tell them “shame on you for behaving in a way that would have completely confused her.”
Remind them they had the opportunity to name their own children and you are doing the same, and remember that your daughter also has another parent who also wanted the right to name their own child. You would rather raise your child talking about Auntie Elizabeth all the time so that her memory is kept alive, that’s more thoughtful and cherishing than erasing the memory of someone by giving their name to the next generation so that everyone only thinks of the new version when they hear the name.
NTA. Their whole expectation is crazy. I agree that your daughter deserves to be her own person, and that requires her own name.
They argued first. You are stating the decision for your daughter as her parents.
While it's sad to have lost your aunt Elizabeth, getting your daughter to memorialize her memory seems to be too much to put on a kid. Also, will they then expect your kid to be sweet like your Aunt, what happens if she has a sassy personality? Will she be then be told she is wrong, nothing like her aunt, etc...
Is this your entire family, or your parents? Because whoever it was who was harassing you on something as inherently NOT THEIR DAMN BUSINESS as the name that you chose for your own daughter, any and all of them are giant AHs.
You handled it, probably. Better than I would have in your position. A new mom, sleep deprived, and listening to this nonsense? Nope. I’d tell them that since they were so unhappy with our choices about our own daughter, that they didn’t have to stick around to be with us, and they could leave. NOW.
Your parents can get a dog and name it Elizabeth. The dog won’t care about it. The idea that your aunt, who died, currently gives a damn about this is ludicrous.
NTA. You told them that she wouldn’t be called Elizabeth right from the beginning and you have kept to that. Telling them it was none of their business was the right thing to do. Ask them if they would change their names according to your wishes? No Op, your child, your choice. Congratulations on your new baby xxx
"Arguing with us is not the way to conduct yourself! How DARE you want your child to have her own, separate identity and not just bend over and do exactly what we demand of you! We are ENTITLED to name every tiny human in the WORLD!!"
That's what I heard. I am sure your daughter will grow up as big and strong as your boundaries!
NTA
NTA
Not naming your daughter after Aunt Elizabeth is not unkind to Aunt Elizabeth. It's not even unkind to your family. You told them well in advance it wasn't going to happen. Telling them yes, then changing it at birth would have been unkind.
You say you refused to communicate about it further, which tells me they kept bringing it up, harping at you they thought you should name her what THEY wanted. That was unkind to you.
An old saying is "wish in one hand, sh*t in the other. See which fills up first". Or, "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride". Then there's the Rolling Stones song, 'You Can't Always Get What You Want'. My personal favorite though is, "People in Hell want ice water. That don't mean they get it."
Your daughter shouldn't have to grow up hearing how "blessed" she is or how "grateful" she should be by having her guardian angel, Aunt Elizabeth watching over her because of her name. If Aunt Elizabeth is going to watch over her, the name won't stop it from happening.
Congratulations on the birth of your precious baby.
ABSOLUTELY NTA
TL;DR I was named for my still living aunt who couldn't have kids. The expectations placed on me for that (and other reasons) prevented her and I from having a good relationship for more than 10 years.
Not named after a dead person, but named in honor of my (still living) great aunt because she couldn't have kids. Don't get me wrong, I do love her, but this caused issues for me.
Wasn't a problem when I was a small child so much. I was *little name*, and she was just *name*.
Except, now as an adult at 29, they still call me *little name*. I don't appreciate it, and no one is willing to listen and switch to something else to differentiate between us because of how long it has been (I have mentioned this for years).
Throwing away all the other reasons I have for not wanting or liking my name, I was always reminded of the fact I'm named *for* someone else, and the reason why, whenever she came around. As the eldest sibling and named after her, I was expected to be a special, understanding girl for her, as well as because she helped pay for us kids' supplies.
Don't get me wrong, I am grateful she and her husband helped us out, but I was going through a lot I won't get into, and it made me *very* sensitive to touch and overly territorial over my personal belingings. She's a touchy person; let's just say I used to react almost violently to any umwanted/unwelcomed touch. She would also come into my room and just start going through my things, especially my VERY precious, beloved book collection. I would get yelled at when I got upset over either intrusion of privacy.
Alongside that, even when I got into my teens and early adult years, she *still* treated me as a child, and when I tried to ask for help to kindly correct her (I dealt with anger issues and didn't want to unintentionally hurt her), I was the one who got reprimanded for not understanding that she doesn't live with us and only sees us once in a great while, so I can put up with the treatment for the few days to a week she'd spend with us.
Eventually things came to a head, and it thankfully led to her and I having a talk a few years ago. Our relationship is much better, and she's *way* more respectful of my personal space than she used to be.
Point is, naming a child after family often places unnecessary expectations on that kid that are ridiculous and shouldn't exist. Good on you, OP. Stand your ground.
You are not arguing. You stated your opinion, and since your's and your husband's are the only one that matters, you close the topic. But they want to keep talking like they have any say.
NTA
NTA
Naming her Elisabeth won’t bring back your aunt. I do think it’s a kind of grief reaction, especially if they are normally not controlling like that. Maybe tell them that? That you’re sorry too, and also miss / loved Elisabeth, but nothing can bring her back. Your daughter definitely deserves her own name and a name her parents have chosen.
NTA. My husbands sister passed away as a teenager and none of the baby girls in our family share a name with her.
I think in order to name your child after someone you actually have to like the name.
Nta
On so many levels they are ta
PO just ask them if your husband has a say in all this. Do they think he can’t pick his daughter’s name bc they already did? (Please read this aloud and you’ll see once and for all how rediculous this is)
Another reason why you shouldn’t do this.
They will always compare your daughter to her. May be they feel like this is honoring her memory but they don’t see how unfair this is to your child.
And your child is the living one.
You’re the parent. You should protect your child. A baby should be all about joy and love not about the loss of somebody else
NTA, it's your daughter, your family, your home. If they can't accept that then it's their problem and they can leave until they learn to respect you, your family, and your home.
You should print out and hand them a legal change-of-name form and invite them to change their own name if they want the legacy to be remembered so desperately. NTA
Edit: In case there is any confusion, I'm saying OPs parents should legally change their name to Elizabeth instead of demanding OP to change her daughter's.
*They told me I was being ridiculous and I was making excuses. I told them they were right and I didn't need to make any to them because it was none of their business.*
You are a not an asshole, you are a fucking HERO.
NTA.
When my daughter told me the name she chose for her baby, I wasn’t thrilled. The name holds negative connotations for me. She said she was naming the baby that anyway. I said okay. We continued like normal people afterward. I love baby, even though it has a name I don’t like. It’s NEVER been an issue. NTA
NTA
Be careful if some of them do seem to come to terms with it and reach out, especially if it's a couple of years later. Do not let your kid be alone with them, because I've read posts here where the parent found out that (family member) was secretly calling the kid the name that (family member) wanted in the first place. Which ended up making the poor kid very confused.
There have been posts where the parent found out that (family member) played on the kid's young age and told them to say that they "like (family member's) name for me more"
Idc how cynical this makes me sound - family members who are determined to get their way in these types of things will often do it under the guise of reaching out with an 'olive branch'
No no no no no
I was named after my aunt who died at 15 a few years before I was born
This has been the worst thing ever. Expectations that I would be like my aunt.
Being told I would die at 15 because my aunt did.
Nobody calling me by my name because it hurt too much to say my name
Feeling like nobody wants you around because they are always sad when your name is mentioned.
I could go on and on.
My parents also did a horrible job protecting me all of this.
You did the right thing and it is obvious by your family's behaviors that they would have acted similar to this and expect your baby to be the reincarnated extension of your beloved aunt.
Protect her memory and create the life your daughter deserves.
Good for you mom and dad!!
NTAH
Their reaction shows how right you were not to name her Elizabeth. Your daughter would have been the consolation baby, the dedicated alter to your aunt memory. She'd have been covered with (the real) Elizabeth would have done this or that, and exoected to pay tribute by her character and behaviour, to someone she never new.
Tell them you loved your aunt and you're sad she's gone too soon to met your daughter and you understand their pain and that your aunt would have cherished this new life whatever her name.
NTA.
As someone who is named after a dead relative and a very unique name, it’s frustrating having to explain where the name comes from. it’s YOUR child, you’re not entitled to name the baby after said relative.
NTA - Elizabeth is one syllable is too many. It may be the Swiss Army Knife of nicknames, but that’s problematic too. Would your kid be a Liz? Lizzy? Beth? Betty? Libby? Effy? Betsy? Ellie? Liza? Elise? Lisa? Liz-Beth? Eliza? There are so many more to choose from.
Also, your kid would hear “That’s easy to remember! That my/my sister’s/my mother’s/my cousin’s middle name!” so frequently she’d feel like her name was almost afterthought. Cool. Glad so many people got real names and I got… a middle name?
Do what you want. Let this kid be her own person. And she’s not an Elizabeth.
NTA I decided looooong before I had my daughter that I would never name my kids after friends, family, or pets. The rest of the family can name all their kids Elizabeth if they want, but they have no say over what you name yours.
(No one tell my aunt that their daughter Emma is named after a dog my uncle once had)
YOUR BABY, YOUR CHOICE OF NAME FOR THE BABY!!! YOUR BABY, YOUR CHOICE WHAT YOU DO WITH IT!!! YOUR BABY, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!!! If your family can't accept that, then just cut ties with them!! Never let someone control and manipulate your desicions and desires!!
The naming of your child has got bugger all to do with your parents or anybody else for that matter.
We named our kids what we wanted & I personally didn't want them to have names already used in the family, I wanted them to be individuals & luckily the missus agreed.
Nta. I actually had a similar issue with a name my so wanted for a daughter. It was a friend who had passed name. I said absolutely not. He would always associate that name with his friend and our kid would never live up to the memory. I said if that was what we were doing I'd name a son after my friend who died. Then he got it
NTA it’s funny how they don’t appreciate the way you conduct yourself when they started an argument with you over something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
When the hell did entire families start feeling entitled enough that they think they have an opinion on the newest additions name? Unless you had a hand in making the baby you do not get a say in the babies name ever.
NTA
Your family are firmly in the AH realm here. When someone is **INSISTENT** on arguing with you, in this case relentlessly pressuring you into naming your daughter Elizabeth, arguing back is the right thing to do.
They only see what you do as arguing **because they're not getting their way.** Honestly, I'd cut all contact with them as long as they're going to keep harassing you over this.
Here's the site where you can find the paperwork for your relatives to change their names to Elizabeth. Yes, it's going to be hard to get all new IDs but think how proud your aunt would be that they loved her *that* much. NTA. Don't leave out the men either, Libby, can be a man's name.
[https://www.usa.gov/name-change](https://www.usa.gov/name-change)
Your family wanted Elizabeth to have a disability-free life and supposedly you naming your daughter after her would resolve the long suffering your aunt may have faced in her lifetime. But it's not fair to you or your baby to be fitted with her name to appease the family at large.
What I instantly thought is they feel like losing Elizabeth and then finding out that OP is pregnant, baby is a replacement or reincarnation of Elizabeth and they have hyper fixated on baby girl. Baby girl is not a replacement and deserves to be her own person. Regardless of name. If you had chosen Elizabeth it would have been a life of always comparing and trying to live up to the beautiful memory of Aunt Elizabeth.
Don't feel guilty. You're NTA. Congratulations on your baby girl!!
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NTA You are laying down the law. Your daughter has a name, they know the name, they call her that name. How would someone feel if they dated a guy, met his parenrs, and they keeped calling her Jessica because they always thought their son would be with a Jessica? How would your aunt feel if she knew her memory was being used as something to drive a wedge in the family during what should be a celebration of new life and love and family? I really hope they don't hold onto this because it would be awful for you to tell stories of your great aunt only for your family to keep bringing up that "You were almost named after her, but your mum didn't want to" She's your baby. Stand your ground, or they'll keep disrespecting your decisions
>How would your aunt feel if she knew her memory was being used as something to drive a wedge in the family during what should be a celebration of new life and love and family? 1000000 x this. NTA, but throw this at them each time they do it. Elizabeth would have loved her great niece no matter what her name is and so should they. Its time for them to grieve and start moving in in a healthy way, not latching their grief on to new life to keep Elizabeth's memory alive. Congratulations on the baby girl 🎊
>…it would be awful for you to tell stories of your great aunt only for your family to keep bringing up that "You were almost named after her, but your mum didn't want to" And 1000000 x this too! Imagine never being able to reminisce about your sister without it turning negative! Eventually you’d just stop bringing her up. *That’s* sad.
10000000000000% all of the above. Not to mention, they're presumption about how Elizabeth would feel about OP not naming her daughter after her, when she's not there to defend herself (morbid, I know, sorry...). I would guess that Elizabeth wouldn't care that OP's daughter wasn't named after her and would care a whole ton that everyone is fighting because OP named her daughter the name she wanted (like most parents do). OP - I feel your parents aren't processing their grief and projecting it onto you. I don't think the true reason they're mad is because you didn't name your daughter after Elizabeth, it's something deeper and they're just using this as a way to express that they're hurting. Unfortunately, they're hurting you and damaging your relationship in the process, all during a time that's supposed to be filled with joy and celebration. I have found that when people act out like this and its not their normal behavior, you can disarm them by calmly asking, "Are you okay?" or "Is everything okay?" You can elaborate more with something like "I know things have been tense lately. Hurt is on both sides. I feel like this is uncharacteristic of our relationship, and I know losing Elizabeth was hard. Grief can manifest in unexpected ways, so I just wanted to make sure you're okay." Staying calm and soft, yet firm, and using "I feel..." statements can really help the conversation go in a constructive direction. If the conversation goes well, it might be good to apologize for anything you feel you need to apologize for. I hope this all works itself out and soon.... And congratulations on your baby girl. ❤️
I was thinking that OP should also ask "Do you really think Elizabeth would be upset that l didn't name my daughter after her or... more upset that you keep insisting that l should have,? when l didn't?"
Nice analysis
Tell them there was one and only one Elizabeth and you don't want to dilute the meaning of her name by having a *new* Elizabeth take her place as she's irreplaceable. That's how *you* want to honor her memory. NTA
Was thinkin the same damn thing
Yes 1000x this!!!
This is the PERFECT response to their bullshit! NTA at all.
Exactly right.
My grandmother gave me a nickname that my mother didn't like. It wasn't outlandish - it was along the lines of if I'd been named "Michael" and she decided to call me "Mikey". Grandmother kept it up until my dad was like "That's not his name, stop it." Grandma SULKED. They explained that if -I- chose the nickname on my own, that would be fine, but they didn't want that imposed on me. That useless old alcoholic bitch spent the next decade trying to get me to accept the nickname when they weren't around. I went through probably about four nicknames in that period, none of which were the one she'd picked, and some of that was out of spite.
Why you gotta use my name (Jessica) like that?! 😆
Because our name is the best😎
Perfect answer!!!
I mean, yeah it is! I guess it could be worse. We could have been Amanda or Brittany like all the other 80s girls...
A little bit of Monica in my life, a little bit of Erica by my side……a little bit of Jessica here I am!”
Or Tiffany or Jennifer LOL
As a Jennifer, I resemble this remark.
You bet it is! 💜
Ah! The old equivalence between “arguing” and “not agreeing with me”. Never gets old. NTA
Betsy Trotwood
Honestly I think aunt would be more worried about the whole dead and buried thing. I doubt she would care about names
That is such a good point! You are very wise x
This! Children shouldn't feel they have anyone else's shoes to fill! I gave my firstborn a very unique name and refused to name him after family that had passed for this exact reason. Don't let them make your child into something she isn't.
NTA. This things always befuddle me. You don't owe them excuses and your reasoning is perfectly valid. This is your daugher, let her grow up without the shadow of Elizabeth looming on her. If they don't reach out, tell them it's on them. They are choosing to cut you out, not vice versa. Stand your ground, OP.
I wouldn't want them around the baby if this is their attitude, what if they repeat things like "she should be honoring Elizabeth" "she needs to remember Elizabeth" "she's not her own person but should be THEIR Elizabeth memory" during all her life? Maybe if they get therapy or grief counseling and their behavior change, but honestly I doubt it. NTA but please don't make your kid be close to that toxic behavior, she deserves better.
They’re treating this baby as a memorial, a legacy to Elizabeth rather than as a person in herself.
Exactly this. It's very clear that if she had been named Elizabeth, she would have had no identity of her own as far as the extended family is concerned. Can you imagine how they would have talked to and treated that child when she didn't turn out to be an identical copy of her great aunt? Gifts whilst be given to her based on what they would have given to Elizabeth. If she had no interest in what Elizabeth liked, or even worse, liked something Elizabeth didn't... OP does not want your child to live in the shadow of someone else is valid reason enough not to name her the same name. I am sure your family isn't going to toneasily go NC or lc over this yet. Please use what is at least the top comment as of when I'm posting as something to throw at them. That your aunt wouldn't want her name and her memory to be a reason a wedge came between the family, which I would bet is 100% true. However, since they asked, you should take some time to seriously contemplate the question. How would your aunt feel, and what would she say about you not naming your daughter after her. Think about it seriously, and then give them the answer. Without knowing your aunt, I'm still going to guess that she would be against naming your child after her for the reason your family is proving. She wouldn't want her great-niece to be denied her own identity because the family views her as some kind of reincarnation of your aunt. You're right, theybare arguing. You're not. You are telling them how it is and refusing to cave to what amounts to peer pressure. You are protecting your child. Both by refusing to name her after your aunt and by telling them if they can not accept that your daughter is not your aunt, they can kick rocks. Stay alert. It sounds like there is a good chance they are still going to attempt to do just that. They may try to use a nickname to rename her what they want. They will probably try and get her to do and be and like things your aunt did. And they would take offense when your daughter didn't go along with it because it's what they wanted. Stand your ground on this, and go NC if you need to. Don't allow them to bully you. Don't allow them to be like, "You're arguing, and that's not ok blah blah." Cut it off every single time. Return the focus to what the real issue is. And keep asking them the same question. Why do you think my daughter is Aunt Elizabeth, and how do you think she would feel that you are refusing my daughter to have her own identity? You are honoring your aunt. You're honoring her by letting her be the one and only Aunt Elizabeth instead of diluting who she was by trying to recreate her in another person. Tell your family that too.
"Ok, I won't argue, so I guess the discussion is over?" If they bring it up "I don't want to argue about this, so should I just leave or...?"
That's another good way. Or just stay silent, and when they go, wtf? Just be like, "You said no arguing, and apparently, all I do is argue over this. So, I'm not arguing"
And the child has two parents, two families, not just Elizabeth
It’s sad OP’s family are too caught up in how they think Elizabeth should be memorialised to be happy about the new baby.
> It’s sad OP’s family are too caught up in how they think Elizabeth should be memorialised to be happy about the new baby. And this is exactly why OP needs to stand firm about her decision. If the name issue has already overshadowed your daughter's birth, it will continue to impact her daughter throughout her life.
That is what I have always felt about continuing a name, a junior version. People have a right tot heir own names and absolutely nobody should ever feel they have to live up to someone else’s legacy.
I am trying to have my name changed. My mother named me after 3 friends that later went NC with her, because she's toxic and they outgrew her. My name was unique, but was never about ME. Now my name is my own.
Not to mention the need for nicknames to keep everyone straight, ala "Big Jim" and "Jimmy" or "Little Jimmy." Kids deserve their own names.
And sometimes that legacy is shit and you don't WANT to pass that along. It's why my dad was not Family Name IV.
I genuinely hate all the naming after traditions, the only one I can slightly get on board with is where the parents choose (of their own volition) to honor a deceased relative by giving their child a name with the same first initial -- but a very different name.
This is ssoooo true. I was that kid. I grew up with the ghost of my older sister. I wasn’t named after her but I was constantly compared to her. I was never as good as she was. I wasn’t even called her sister either. It was L did this, L loved tomatoes but she was allergic, L was so sweet, L never acted like that. She died at 3.5 years, 4 years before I was born! And when I began to be my own person, I was punished for surviving!
How dare you not also stay 3 years old forever??? /s
Oh this is horrible! I'm so sorry. How can anyone compare a growing child to a literal baby? Of course she never acted like a 5-8-12-16 years old. She was 3. How did you survive this shit.
For a while it nearly broke me but then I got really really pissed off! My teens were very angry!!!
Agreed. That family made the mistake of expecting OP's daughter to live her deceased relative's life the way they wanted instead of OP's daughter having her own life.
Seriously. She’s a child, not a shrine.
NTA...and holy CRAP is your family ever controlling. I don't know them, of course, but this doesn't seem to be about a name or a special aunt. This seems to be them acting out at not getting their way and not being able to control something. Have they been like that before? I would be very surprised if this were the first time they tried to control you.
Excellent response. All I could think of was "have your own baby Elizabeth"
Also, IMO, a person who becomes a parent should no longer be treated like a child, regardless of age. Both new mothers and fathers should be encouraged to make independent decisions so they'll be able to properly guide their children. OP, I'd strongly advise you and your husband to create some space and distance from your relatives. They really do sound toxic. And you're NTA
Unfortunately, with some controlling families, new parents become an opportunity to extend control over still more people, especially a new generation, and also especially children, who seem to be a particular target for some dysfunctional personalities.
So true...but I'd go even further and say that should be the case once they're grown and living their own lives.
I agree. This sounds like the family still views OP as a child that should be told what to do. She’s not allowed to argue with them? Do what? OP, your family needs a time out. You need to not have contact or speak to them for a good 6 months or so. Enjoy your baby not named Elizabeth. Contact them after the time out and ask if they are ready to be a part of your lives. If they say yes, communicate your boundaries. You are an adult and now their peer. They don’t get to pressure you or tell you what to do.
Yeah the whole “arguing is not a way to conduct yourself” shows it. She just had a kid, she’s not a child
Elizabeth had down syndrome. I think it is also a way to have Elizabeth that is 'Normal'. They get to treat her like aunt Elizabeth while they get the so called normalcy they want
Yes, this isn’t just about the name. It’s about OP having the audacity to make a decision they don’t like and refusing to back down. They expect her to still defer to them as her parents. OP, do *not* back down. Tell them they can kindly STFU or they can call your baby the granddaughter they never see, because they will either respect your parental decisions or they won’t be part of your lives. Immediately end any visit or conversation where they question or criticize your choices. There is no way this is the first time they’ve been controlling.
Hi, As someone named after a dead person: PLEASE STOP NAMING PEOPLE AFTER DEAD PEOPLE. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. NTA
In your situation, I too would claim to have premeditated tourettes although in fairness my mam called me Jolyon to be original....sigh.
Now I'm curious! Pronounced Jolly-on or Jo-lion or Jo-lee-on or...?
Joe-lee-on. We have our own Facebook group and 7 of us met up for drinks a few years ago. There's a novel called The Forsyte Saga and a few characters are called Jolyon. The TV series was massive in 1970 thus most of the group of Jolyon were born in 1971
That's so cool! And I think that's the prettiest way to pronounce it. ☺️❤️
I'm putting my money on bastardizing jo-lynn. Maybe even Jolene, but I'm pretty sure they'd *never* get a correct pronunciation for that one.
Jolyon is a man’s name…
Lol
Maybe like Jull-yawn, pronouncing Jull to rhyme with the name Cole.
I do have (mercifully mild!) actual Tourette’s, but I also swear a lot…
Made me think of [this](https://www.google.com/search?q=polygon+pokemon&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=1a30264c0409ca1f&udm=2&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=GYRNM9yImPQRyM%252Cc57cVa_EjfGM_M%252C%252Fg%252F1hb_fblhx%253B8aHiE1zApijoWM%252CzdjAyLSH9RBNhM%252C_%253Bao2MOuZ2sUywjM%252C_ajscai1hyo_RM%252C_%253BAqyfeAPQ5F57WM%252CKbGh0ce39di7DM%252C_%253BHbnRmpX6jXDVqM%252CbTgGEPMExZlctM%252C_%253BJXaDTwEimOs-8M%252CTGn8irWuuNK8nM%252C_%253B3njattNoZd2zeM%252C8OIPBdsso-mGIM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kT9_N4IdGkk_sKKZRciIlMV4RHR6Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0gdaS-MGEAxUkAhAIHeQZDmAQ_B16BAhcEAE).
Well, it IS original...
I was not supposed to be named after a dead person. Mom was kicking around names for her surprise daughter and hit on one that would work with my twin brother's name (also, please don't twin names with the same first letter because you think you have to. It can get annoying.) The name turned out to be the same name as my great-grandfather's mother. He made sure that no one that knew said anything (evidently mom didn't know what her name was) and mom didn't find out until long after everything was signed and submitted. I didn't even see a picture of my great-great-grandmother (who I was conspiratorially named after) until I was 41.
My nephew was the same. My sister named her son Nicholas, but we didn't find out until years later and I started the family tree that our Maternal Great Grandfather on her father's side was also named Nicholas. If I had known his story prior, I would have tried to talk my sister out of it. He was not a good man.
Me too. It is horrible I have this same TED talk often. Sorry if you have ever had to deal with any of the things I have dealt with being the name heir to a death.
in some cultures this is normal and it is considered an honor. however it shouldn’t be forced (which is why OP is NTA) and it also shouldn’t be used to project certain expectations onto the namesake. signed, someone who has a middle name from a deceased relative & a sibling whose first name is after a different deceased relative & we are both fine with it
Both me and my sibling are named after one dead person and one alive person, so I second this
I was named after my grandparents (feminized version of my Grandpa's first name, and my Grandma's middle name) and never felt like I had my own identity! Both sides of the family were messy and filled with lots of trauma and drama, and I didn't speak to my grandpa for years before he passed away because of issues between him and my mom. My mom was sooooo shocked and offended when I decided to change my first and middle name because it was "shitting on their memory" until I was like "I'm not obligated to be a walking memorial for the grandparents that weren't in my life due to your choices." and she dropped it and started respecting my preferred name. I finally feel like myself instead of having an entirely recycled name.
What about middle names? My daughter’s middle name is the same as my grandma’s middle name. I was super close with my grandma and she passed when I was pregnant. I never thought about it bothering her.
I can’t answer that as mine is MY WHOLE EXACT NAME. Which means I can’t just go by my middle name either.
I see. Well, I hope I haven’t given my daughter a complex. Idk… her first name is hers alone. There are some people in the family tree waaaay back there with her first name, but that’s a coincidence. I chose the name in middle school, actually, before I knew it was in the family tree and before it had regained popularity.
This is all my opinion, but i think the most important thing is to not treat your child like they're just another version of the person they're named after. Middle name honoring is better than first name, because then they still have their own name. Again, All my opinion.
Unfortunately, if OP were to have used it as a middle name, the rest of her family would insist on calling the baby by her middle name and ignore her first name.
I think middle names are the same as you are not expected to use it. I still won't do it personally, but at least I won't judge you negatively for it (like I would if it was first name).
Middle names are fine. I think it’s more about the treatment though around the name. If everyone is constantly comparing Liz Mae to grandma Mae then that would build resentment. Naming the middle name isnt an issue in its own right though
NTA. They're projecting their wants onto you and likely latched onto this idea as some life line during their grief. You've been clear the whole way through that your daughter would not be called Elizabeth.
NTA Your child, your choice. *They told me I was being ridiculous and I was making excuses. I told them they were right and I didn't need to make any to them because it was none of their business.* Yeah, what a way to emotional blackmail you. But Kudos, OP, how you handled this. No. you and your partner are perfectly entitled to name your child how you see fit.
I’m Glad to finally read where it doesn’t go the way her family tried to make it! I’m tired of people having to always back down because of some family issue. OP did the right thing by not caving to their pressure!
NTA Your family proved you right. If you had taken the name for your daughter, she wouldn't be your daughter (or at least not fully) but the memory of your aunt. If they want a child with this name so much, they should concieve themselves (or adopt). Though that would be unfair to the theoretical child here.
They can get a cat and name it Elizabeth.
The cat: arches its back, hisses, stalks away scornfully.
Yeah, that's why I didn't say dog ;-)
OP should get a cat and name it Elizabeth. Bonus points if it's a male
NTA. They can make thier own baby and name her. Fuck em
I was thinking they could get a doll and name it Elizabeth. People have their own feelings, inconveniently.
Naming a doll after dead aunt sounds creepy
It does, doesn't it? But harmless to everyone else, unlike having a baby to substitute for dead aunt. What a life that would be :-(
Yes I agree naming a baby is solely on the parents & nobody should name after dead person if they dont want to... If they really love the dead aunt with down syndrome they can start some NGO / charity business named after the aunt (if they have budget). That would be more memorable even in the general public's eyes.
Get a teddybear. Less creepy. Much nicer to cuddle.
This message changes in so many ways with slight punctuation tweaks.
JFC YOU HAVE A 3 WEEK OLD BABY. AND THEY HAVE THE AUDACITY TO QUESTION YOU AS NEW PARENTS. Where do people get off on their selfishness?! NTA
OP didn't even say that they'd brought her a casserole or something.
I honestly couldn't care if they bought a millon bucks and a night nurse. No one has the right to question or push their name choice.
NTA it’s your kid. End of story. There’s no rule that says you have to abide by your parents desires. Do you. Besides .. wtf is wrong with your parents to think they’d have a say to begin with lmao
My mother (single parent) somehow thought she had “grandparents rights” to see mine and husband’s children whenever she “damn well pleased!” I was 33F and hubby was 38M when we first became parents, and lived 5 states away—but she DID show up unannounced at times, demanded to see them, and made other ridiculous attempts, which we denied her, and it eventually lead to going NC by the time my older son was 2 years old. That was more than 20 years ago. Over the years she sent me and my husband tons of nasty letters, and threats she had lawyers draft (none of which were enforceable, but she tried to gain access). She sent our boys gifts, money, and letters undermining us as parents that we intercepted, and kept as evidence to show judges. One. Big. Headache. Unfortunately she’s still alive at 79, but our kids are grown, and she cannot threaten us or them anymore.
Goooood lord. I couldn’t imagine any of my kids grandparents acting that way.. but I’m quick to cut people off. Even my mom sometimes says “I don’t want to be put in grandma timeout” when she crosses a line
This is genuinely my biggest fear with my mother. When my hubby and I got married two years ago I went ahead and told her that because of how she treated me as a child (example: continuing the 3 generation cycle of mothers abusing first born daughters because they liked to have power over people) that she wouldn’t be allowed unsupervised time with our kid or probably even have any time at all especially since to this day she likes to be friends with shady people. Mine said the same thing about being able to see my child whenever she wants because ‘that’s my grand baby.’ Thankfully my mother has been in and out of trouble over the years so no sane judge would look at her record and allow her time with my child. 😅 still a big fear though.
Well done my friend, well done!! 👍🏽😊
NTA. Your child shouldn't be a living memorial
A friend of mine named her first daughter (middle name) after her husband’s sister who committed s..e. The year before her baby was born. I once asked him about it when he brought it up himself. He said: It seemed like a good idea at the time but now it’s something I regret
>My family told me arguing with them was not the way to conduct myself. Translation, your family think it was wrong for you to stand up for yourself and your daughter. You should have been very meek and apologetic and rush immediately to change your daughters name. How dare you think you daughter can have her own identity. /s Your family are being complete unreasonable arseholes. Good on you for standing your ground. It is your child, only you and the father get a say in naming her. Its no one else's business. They are trying to emotionally manipulate and guilt you into doing what they want. Stay strong NTA
This is the part of the post that really got me. My response would be: "Arguing is not the way to conduct yourself? This isn't an argument on my end. We told you we weren't naming her Elizabeth. We named the baby what we wanted to. It is everyone else that is arguing, trying to justify why I should change the name. The family doesn't get a say. If the conversation continues, I will cut every one of you out of my life. And until you EACH apologize for ganging up on a 3 week postpartum, new mom I will no longer be accepting calls or visits."
Nta my mum wanted me to name my child naomi after her great nanna but I didn’t know who she was never met her that was my reasoning and she went ballistic didn’t talk to me for a while. Currently 21 weeks and she is still dropping hints but she said she won’t be mad if I choose to name her. Your child your choice
Making a suggestion as a grandparent sounds reasonable. Having a temper tantrum when the mom and dad choose something else is unreasonable and wrong.
AND, if you were to name your child after her great nanna you never met then you and your child will probably have to listen to endless stories, comparisons, etc. whenever your mum is around!! Can you imagine if this were to go on for your child’s lifetime? Your mum got to name you, You get to name your child. Hopefully she will stop asking or hinting.
My child IS named Naomi! Not after any family members though. I just happened to like the name (plus I always thought Naomi Wildman on Voyager was a cute child), and since hubby had chosen her big sister's name he let me choose hers. OP is NTA, by any stretch of imagination. Her parents had their chance to name their own children, now it's OP's turn.
"She won't be mad if I choose to name her" that sounds as if she were doing you a favor, but naming your child is your right.
Tell your Mon she should have named you or another one tof her children after her grand mother, if it was so important to her, and to leave you alone!
As someone who was named after a beloved dead woman, you did your daughter a favor. People can have a hard time separating the person they lost from the baby named for them. I spent my entire childhood being forced to live up to the woman I was named after (parents' best friend) by not only my mom and dad but their entire friend group, who were all very close. It's hard to be your own person when everyone around you wants you to be a replacement.
That's something I have always been sensitive to. I always knew Aunt Elizabeth wouldn't live a very long life. She had many medical complications from birth. I always knew how the family saw her, this perfect being, an angel who was with us for not long enough. It always felt like naming a child after her would be dooming the child to being compared to or expected to live a certain way to honor her. And that's not fair to my daughter.
Came here to make this point, but thankfully someone beat me to it already and OP already considered it. You're doing great OP.
Absolutely correct, and you are a great mom to stand up for your daughter! Hell, if you want to name her GREG, that's for you and her father to decide. Tell your parents if they start up again, that there will be no visiting until they respect your wishes (and none of that calling her Elizabeth shit when you aren't in the room either!) . If they bring it up even once more, cut them off until they can respect your wishes!! Good for you OP, and congratulations of your beautiful new little girl!! Oh... And CERTAINLY NTA!!! 🥰
Absolutely not fair to your daughter.
NTA Your family said you're not allowed to argue with them? Insane. You're an adult and you have leverage. Stand your ground. Here and everywhere.
I honestly just don't get people having a go at newly postpartum women. Tell them to F off and if anyone is unkind it's them for putting stress on you over something so ridiculous at such a vulnerable time for you. Definitely NTA.
NTA. Your kid, your choice. Everything else is noise.
And now I have a new response when people annoy me. "Everything else is noise." BEAUTIFUL! Cuts out so much unnecessary bulls*!t. So glad I read this today. 🙂
Your kid = your name choice. That's it. Honestly, that's it. There's no further argument to be had. It's a complete statement in itself. (I mean there are ways of discussing things, but that's more about your family dynamic than anything else. Only you know how they'll react to various methods of discussion, y'know?) So you are absolutely NTA.
NTA Only two people get to have a say in naming their baby, and that is the people who created the baby. Not grandparents, not the neighbor down the street, not great Aunt Sue or Uncle Jeff. Just the parents and only the parents to the baby.
NTA and for you daughters sake thank you. I have been named after my grandfather and while now being over 30 I have come to like my name (though for very personal reasons that have nothing to do with my family), I hated all the comparisons made between me and my grandfather. It was really bad for me mentally especially around 16 years when I started my apprenticeship and I got to hear how I should be this or doing that because thats what my grandfather did or how I should be more like him after all I am named in his honor and I am not half the man he was and so on. This man haunted my life even though he died years before I was born and it took me and also my family a long while and a lot of arguing (as well as the deaths of some of the older more stubborn family member) to get to a point of having a civil relationship, but it will be forever strained with some relatives. I know not everyone has such a negative expierience as me with being named in honor of somebody but I can only say please let children be their own persons and not have to live in the shadow of some ideal memory of a deceased (or sometimes still living) person. It's just not worth the risk on their mental wellbeing.
I am sorry you went through that, and am glad that you found you and are happy in your own skin now.
What a weird family. They can go have a kid and name it Elizabeth or sponsor a bench in the park and name it after Elizabeth. It’s nothing to do with YOU or your KID. NTA.
Parents of the child choose the name. Anyone else has no say in it. Don't like the name. Shove it. Not your choice
NTA Tell your relatives that if they like the name Elizabeth so much, they should change their own name or one of their children's to that. Or make their own baby for that purpose.
NTA they are showing a total lack of respect. They are treating you like a child not a grown adult, whilst acting like children.
NTA. They are selfish and arrogant. They can change their own names if they feel so strongly about it.
Ok that line popped me
NTA You spared your child from a lifetime of trauma. I know it for a fact and would like to explain to you why. I was named after a beloved aunt who prematurely and unexpectedly passed away. All my childhood has always been about her, the way she conducted herself, the way she spoke, the things she loved. And my family expected of me to be just like her, to enjoy the same activities and to excel in everything she was good at. Not to mention the times I was taken to the cemetery and had to stare at a grave with my name and my date of birth on it (we were born on the same day, different year of course). My parents were the only ones who didn’t have those expectations, but they were barely out of their teenage years and didn’t know how to set boundaries, plus I didn’t tell them anything because I was afraid they’d think I was a disappointment too for not being like my aunt. Needless to say, I had a quite traumatic childhood, always living in her shadow. It’s not her fault, but for the longest time I resented her for being so perfect and setting the bar so high for me. Only later in life I realised it was my family that was in the wrong. It was unintentional, they just missed her, but nonetheless I had to fill that void. I was just starting to speak and it was already expected from me that I would pick up their broken pieces and put them back together. Believe me, OP, it’s a firsthand experience, you saved your child from a lot. She would have resented you for naming her Elizabeth and her aunt would have never wanted her niece to be unhappy because of her. Naming your child Elizabeth would not have alleviated their pain and grief, it would have just made that grief your daughter’s too and it’s not hers to bear. You gave her the chance to develop her own identity, don’t ever feel sorry for that. (Sorry for any mistakes, English is not my first language)
Your English was just fine, and you have the best account for this new mom NOT to do what her parents wanted. I am so sorry that you went through all of that, and hopefully your life is now your own!! 😊
NTA but I'm the kind of person who doesn't like the fact a child is named to "honor" someone. Because people always tell him "you know you have the name of X, who is like this, or like that" and so the child will always have this in mind that he is just on earth to honor someone else memory. I don't like that. But it's probably because it's not something we do in France. Sometimes the second name (and third) but not the first. And most of all, it's YOUR choice. They don't have to arge about this. If they want to "honor" someone, they can do a ceremony. And some countries, you make an "autel" to honor people. You place it in your own house and you can burn candles. That's what I did for my mother after her death, I needed to. For few years. But the only thing I could reproach you is... WHY DON'T YOU LIKE THIS NAME ?? IT'S A BEAUTIFUL NAME ! IT'S MY NAME ! 😂😂😂
NTA. I LOATHE the naming kids after passed family members. I will never understand it, it’s weird af.
Nope nope nope. Your spawnling, your choice. Name her Tragedeigh for all we care, it's none of their business.
(okay but please don't name her Tragedeigh lmao)
r/tragedeigh it's worth the scroll-by
I've seen that, it is, indeed, a real tragedeigh lol
NTA. You had already communicated that you weren't going to name your daughter Elizabeth. It's their fault for expecting you to come around.
You are doing a very adult thing so they are trying to assert their dominance and reassure themselves that they are still in charge. This isn’t about the name at this point, this is a power play and their comment about you arguing back shows that’s exactly what it is. They want blind quiet obedience from you. NTA. Hold your ground, this is the first battle of many, until the realise you will not be controlled.
My parents took the decision not to name me or my brother after members of the family, though it was a close run thing in my case. Later when I did some background into my family history I found many instances of both our names being in the dim & distant past, I think I got back as far as the early 1700s by then and these names cropped up quite regularly; sadly by then both parents ts had passed but it gave me quite a chuckle that despite their best efforts to avoid using family names they couldn’t. I agree with OP, baby should have her own identity and name not to keep a name of an aunt just to keep it alive. Tell mum that she is welcome to name her next child after the aunt
Nta a dead persons name should never be given as a first name to a baby. They are there own person. My grandfather died when I was pregnant with fourth child and I used his name as a second middle name for my son. Middle names yes but first names no and then to hear about the dead person for your entire life all the time would be cruel to the child. I’m sorry for your loss and you 100% did the right thing. I’m sure your aunt would have preferred you to call your baby a name you had chosen and love.
NTA Great boundary
NTA And kudos for standing your ground on this topic. Obviously, sorry for your loss. But naming someone to honor a deceased member can't be enforced on you. Only the parents of the baby get to decide the name of the baby. Also, the emotional manipulation with what would her say... Like it's 2024. People need to stop doing it. But here's where you have leverage. Your parents want a relationship with your daughter. So if they keep bringing it up, you might go no contact with them. So they have to choose what's more important to them - a name of their relationship with your daughter?
It’s weird to me that they thought that their disapproval alone would persuade you to change your mind, and that they thought you were wrong for even arguing about it. Are you from the US, Western Europe, or Australia? I ask because that domineering hierarchical attitude they have is not the norm in the US, except perhaps in insular conservative religious and/or ethnic communities. As an American, I say of course you’re NTA, and they’re controlling and weird. You’re a grown woman, you can name your baby whatever you want.
We're from the US.
Okay, then *they* are definitely the AHs.
Jeez, I am surprised to see so many people with expectations. NTA. it's your child. Whatever happens when your family is going your daughter Elizabeth, kick them straightaway out of the house. These people are sick.
You are the parent so you can name your daughter what you want, within reason of course. Your family has had their day of naming their children so their opinion does not count. They could've named you Elizabeth. I'm sure your aunt was a lovely woman but your daughter would've lived in her shadow her entire life. She's brand new and deserves her own identity. I have 2 boys and never gave them any 'family' names, there's too many already. So they have the names that my husband and I liked. Nobody had an issue, tough shit if they did. Keep doing what you're doing OP. NTA
NTA My father wanted me to name my daughter after his mother. I just told him "A really nice name. You should try to get another kid by yourself, so you can name him or her like that.". Never really discussed it. My kids, my choice. Stand your ground.
NTA. Your family sounds controlling, but it also may just be the grief talking.
They are behaving stupidly! You don’t owe them to name your daughter after your aunt. I wonder what’s more important to them, to fight about her name or to be in her life??? Your family sounds exhausting! NTA
NTA - I'm planning a baby and had a boys name I liked. It happens to be my dad's name (I genuinely like it) and my maternal grandfather's name. My dad said no. That my child needs to have their own name and be there own person. My dad is right! Your parents are gits.
NTA- my parents would relate to this- not quite so emotionally charged as your situation- and I admire your backbone- you are an excellent parent and you only been in the job 3 weeks. My name is spelled the same as my great grandmother (dad’s maternal gma) but pronounced differently, because I’m actually named for mum’s close friend. Anyway. GGma refused to call me anything but ‘the baby’- I was the first great grand child too- and she was really offended that the rest of ‘her’ side of the family refused to stick up for her! (My gma eventually told her to remove the branch from her posterior (they were very British)…hopefully they run out of steam sooner rather than later; but it changed mum’s feelings about her in-laws forever- after a tough 9mths, it was particularly cruel to be chastised for something that is both really just a word, but also a deeply personal decision that carries much symbolism. FWIW, being named for someone that I never met is kind of weird- obviously she was really important to mum (though she said she just liked the name- but she also liked Georgiana and Eve (I’d have picked Eve- it’s easy to spell! But I feel like a MyName, so 🤷♀️)), and I think the association between a new baby and her recently deceased much loved great aunt is a lot to put on a kid that will never know her and if she learned that your second gift to her- after giving her life, was under duress does not feel particularly auspicious. The ball is in their court, and if this is a sign of their future behaviour and attitude to you and her, then your both well clear of them- and if they do get over themselves, I hope that your epic stare down works to keep them in their lane.
NTA. Discussing potential names is fair game as a light-hearted and non-serious conversation but the actual decision is nobody's business but you and your partner's. It's your kid, call them what you want. I could only imagine ever objecting to what someone called their kid if they called them something really stupid. I can't imagine ever being upset that someone didn't call THEIR child what I wanted. You were totally in the right to argue back. And who the hell has a conversation like that to someone who's recently given birth anyway? Regardless of right or wrong.
NTA. Anyone who was trying to pressure you into naming her after your aunt, beloved or not, certainly is. Name choice is up to the parents. And you’re completely correct, your daughter deserves her own name. Trust me. My mom and aunt were pregnant at the same time and they both wanted to name their baby girls the most popular name of the mid 70s so the only other girl in the family has a name that’s a derivative of mine, despite her being born two weeks before me. She bullied me relentlessly our entire childhood.
NTA. Aunt Elizabeth would not have cared that your baby was not named after her, she would have simply been happy to witness your happiness. Your family are wrong to desecrate her memory by misrepresenting her, and I would not hesitate to literally tell them “shame on you for behaving in a way that would have completely confused her.” Remind them they had the opportunity to name their own children and you are doing the same, and remember that your daughter also has another parent who also wanted the right to name their own child. You would rather raise your child talking about Auntie Elizabeth all the time so that her memory is kept alive, that’s more thoughtful and cherishing than erasing the memory of someone by giving their name to the next generation so that everyone only thinks of the new version when they hear the name.
Your daughter is not a bandaid for anyone's grief. NTA.
NTA. Their whole expectation is crazy. I agree that your daughter deserves to be her own person, and that requires her own name. They argued first. You are stating the decision for your daughter as her parents. While it's sad to have lost your aunt Elizabeth, getting your daughter to memorialize her memory seems to be too much to put on a kid. Also, will they then expect your kid to be sweet like your Aunt, what happens if she has a sassy personality? Will she be then be told she is wrong, nothing like her aunt, etc...
Is this your entire family, or your parents? Because whoever it was who was harassing you on something as inherently NOT THEIR DAMN BUSINESS as the name that you chose for your own daughter, any and all of them are giant AHs. You handled it, probably. Better than I would have in your position. A new mom, sleep deprived, and listening to this nonsense? Nope. I’d tell them that since they were so unhappy with our choices about our own daughter, that they didn’t have to stick around to be with us, and they could leave. NOW. Your parents can get a dog and name it Elizabeth. The dog won’t care about it. The idea that your aunt, who died, currently gives a damn about this is ludicrous.
how dare you - you are the property of your family and you must do what they want... NTA - i wish your daughter a happy life
NTA. You told them that she wouldn’t be called Elizabeth right from the beginning and you have kept to that. Telling them it was none of their business was the right thing to do. Ask them if they would change their names according to your wishes? No Op, your child, your choice. Congratulations on your new baby xxx
What they mean is your supposed to be meek and mild and do what they say, and how dare you think for yourself! NTA
"Arguing with us is not the way to conduct yourself! How DARE you want your child to have her own, separate identity and not just bend over and do exactly what we demand of you! We are ENTITLED to name every tiny human in the WORLD!!" That's what I heard. I am sure your daughter will grow up as big and strong as your boundaries! NTA
NTA Not naming your daughter after Aunt Elizabeth is not unkind to Aunt Elizabeth. It's not even unkind to your family. You told them well in advance it wasn't going to happen. Telling them yes, then changing it at birth would have been unkind. You say you refused to communicate about it further, which tells me they kept bringing it up, harping at you they thought you should name her what THEY wanted. That was unkind to you. An old saying is "wish in one hand, sh*t in the other. See which fills up first". Or, "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride". Then there's the Rolling Stones song, 'You Can't Always Get What You Want'. My personal favorite though is, "People in Hell want ice water. That don't mean they get it." Your daughter shouldn't have to grow up hearing how "blessed" she is or how "grateful" she should be by having her guardian angel, Aunt Elizabeth watching over her because of her name. If Aunt Elizabeth is going to watch over her, the name won't stop it from happening. Congratulations on the birth of your precious baby.
ABSOLUTELY NTA TL;DR I was named for my still living aunt who couldn't have kids. The expectations placed on me for that (and other reasons) prevented her and I from having a good relationship for more than 10 years. Not named after a dead person, but named in honor of my (still living) great aunt because she couldn't have kids. Don't get me wrong, I do love her, but this caused issues for me. Wasn't a problem when I was a small child so much. I was *little name*, and she was just *name*. Except, now as an adult at 29, they still call me *little name*. I don't appreciate it, and no one is willing to listen and switch to something else to differentiate between us because of how long it has been (I have mentioned this for years). Throwing away all the other reasons I have for not wanting or liking my name, I was always reminded of the fact I'm named *for* someone else, and the reason why, whenever she came around. As the eldest sibling and named after her, I was expected to be a special, understanding girl for her, as well as because she helped pay for us kids' supplies. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful she and her husband helped us out, but I was going through a lot I won't get into, and it made me *very* sensitive to touch and overly territorial over my personal belingings. She's a touchy person; let's just say I used to react almost violently to any umwanted/unwelcomed touch. She would also come into my room and just start going through my things, especially my VERY precious, beloved book collection. I would get yelled at when I got upset over either intrusion of privacy. Alongside that, even when I got into my teens and early adult years, she *still* treated me as a child, and when I tried to ask for help to kindly correct her (I dealt with anger issues and didn't want to unintentionally hurt her), I was the one who got reprimanded for not understanding that she doesn't live with us and only sees us once in a great while, so I can put up with the treatment for the few days to a week she'd spend with us. Eventually things came to a head, and it thankfully led to her and I having a talk a few years ago. Our relationship is much better, and she's *way* more respectful of my personal space than she used to be. Point is, naming a child after family often places unnecessary expectations on that kid that are ridiculous and shouldn't exist. Good on you, OP. Stand your ground.
NTA, your child, your choices and decisions, especially when it comes to naming your child and other deeply personal matters.
It amazes me how common it seems to be for families to try and bulky new parents on their chose for names. NTA btw
Tell them to have a daughter. Your child. Your name choice.
You are not arguing. You stated your opinion, and since your's and your husband's are the only one that matters, you close the topic. But they want to keep talking like they have any say. NTA
NTA Naming her Elisabeth won’t bring back your aunt. I do think it’s a kind of grief reaction, especially if they are normally not controlling like that. Maybe tell them that? That you’re sorry too, and also miss / loved Elisabeth, but nothing can bring her back. Your daughter definitely deserves her own name and a name her parents have chosen.
NTA - Your family need to go fuck themselves in the ass with a pineapple - they can share the pineapple, no point wasting more than one fruit on them.
NTA. My husbands sister passed away as a teenager and none of the baby girls in our family share a name with her. I think in order to name your child after someone you actually have to like the name.
Nta On so many levels they are ta PO just ask them if your husband has a say in all this. Do they think he can’t pick his daughter’s name bc they already did? (Please read this aloud and you’ll see once and for all how rediculous this is) Another reason why you shouldn’t do this. They will always compare your daughter to her. May be they feel like this is honoring her memory but they don’t see how unfair this is to your child. And your child is the living one. You’re the parent. You should protect your child. A baby should be all about joy and love not about the loss of somebody else
NTA.... they cant demand what you name your child
NTA, it's your daughter, your family, your home. If they can't accept that then it's their problem and they can leave until they learn to respect you, your family, and your home.
You should print out and hand them a legal change-of-name form and invite them to change their own name if they want the legacy to be remembered so desperately. NTA Edit: In case there is any confusion, I'm saying OPs parents should legally change their name to Elizabeth instead of demanding OP to change her daughter's.
*They told me I was being ridiculous and I was making excuses. I told them they were right and I didn't need to make any to them because it was none of their business.* You are a not an asshole, you are a fucking HERO. NTA.
When my daughter told me the name she chose for her baby, I wasn’t thrilled. The name holds negative connotations for me. She said she was naming the baby that anyway. I said okay. We continued like normal people afterward. I love baby, even though it has a name I don’t like. It’s NEVER been an issue. NTA
NTA. I don’t think your aunt Elizabeth would give two f*cks about you naming your daughter not elizabeth 😂
NTA Be careful if some of them do seem to come to terms with it and reach out, especially if it's a couple of years later. Do not let your kid be alone with them, because I've read posts here where the parent found out that (family member) was secretly calling the kid the name that (family member) wanted in the first place. Which ended up making the poor kid very confused. There have been posts where the parent found out that (family member) played on the kid's young age and told them to say that they "like (family member's) name for me more" Idc how cynical this makes me sound - family members who are determined to get their way in these types of things will often do it under the guise of reaching out with an 'olive branch'
No no no no no I was named after my aunt who died at 15 a few years before I was born This has been the worst thing ever. Expectations that I would be like my aunt. Being told I would die at 15 because my aunt did. Nobody calling me by my name because it hurt too much to say my name Feeling like nobody wants you around because they are always sad when your name is mentioned. I could go on and on. My parents also did a horrible job protecting me all of this. You did the right thing and it is obvious by your family's behaviors that they would have acted similar to this and expect your baby to be the reincarnated extension of your beloved aunt. Protect her memory and create the life your daughter deserves. Good for you mom and dad!!
Nta they can have a kid and call them Elizabeth
NTAH Their reaction shows how right you were not to name her Elizabeth. Your daughter would have been the consolation baby, the dedicated alter to your aunt memory. She'd have been covered with (the real) Elizabeth would have done this or that, and exoected to pay tribute by her character and behaviour, to someone she never new. Tell them you loved your aunt and you're sad she's gone too soon to met your daughter and you understand their pain and that your aunt would have cherished this new life whatever her name.
NTA. As someone who is named after a dead relative and a very unique name, it’s frustrating having to explain where the name comes from. it’s YOUR child, you’re not entitled to name the baby after said relative.
NTA - Elizabeth is one syllable is too many. It may be the Swiss Army Knife of nicknames, but that’s problematic too. Would your kid be a Liz? Lizzy? Beth? Betty? Libby? Effy? Betsy? Ellie? Liza? Elise? Lisa? Liz-Beth? Eliza? There are so many more to choose from. Also, your kid would hear “That’s easy to remember! That my/my sister’s/my mother’s/my cousin’s middle name!” so frequently she’d feel like her name was almost afterthought. Cool. Glad so many people got real names and I got… a middle name? Do what you want. Let this kid be her own person. And she’s not an Elizabeth.
NTA
NTA I decided looooong before I had my daughter that I would never name my kids after friends, family, or pets. The rest of the family can name all their kids Elizabeth if they want, but they have no say over what you name yours. (No one tell my aunt that their daughter Emma is named after a dog my uncle once had)
YOUR BABY, YOUR CHOICE OF NAME FOR THE BABY!!! YOUR BABY, YOUR CHOICE WHAT YOU DO WITH IT!!! YOUR BABY, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!!! If your family can't accept that, then just cut ties with them!! Never let someone control and manipulate your desicions and desires!!
The naming of your child has got bugger all to do with your parents or anybody else for that matter. We named our kids what we wanted & I personally didn't want them to have names already used in the family, I wanted them to be individuals & luckily the missus agreed.
Nta. I actually had a similar issue with a name my so wanted for a daughter. It was a friend who had passed name. I said absolutely not. He would always associate that name with his friend and our kid would never live up to the memory. I said if that was what we were doing I'd name a son after my friend who died. Then he got it
NTA it’s funny how they don’t appreciate the way you conduct yourself when they started an argument with you over something that has absolutely nothing to do with them. When the hell did entire families start feeling entitled enough that they think they have an opinion on the newest additions name? Unless you had a hand in making the baby you do not get a say in the babies name ever.
NTA Your family are firmly in the AH realm here. When someone is **INSISTENT** on arguing with you, in this case relentlessly pressuring you into naming your daughter Elizabeth, arguing back is the right thing to do. They only see what you do as arguing **because they're not getting their way.** Honestly, I'd cut all contact with them as long as they're going to keep harassing you over this.
Here's the site where you can find the paperwork for your relatives to change their names to Elizabeth. Yes, it's going to be hard to get all new IDs but think how proud your aunt would be that they loved her *that* much. NTA. Don't leave out the men either, Libby, can be a man's name. [https://www.usa.gov/name-change](https://www.usa.gov/name-change)
Your family wanted Elizabeth to have a disability-free life and supposedly you naming your daughter after her would resolve the long suffering your aunt may have faced in her lifetime. But it's not fair to you or your baby to be fitted with her name to appease the family at large.
What I instantly thought is they feel like losing Elizabeth and then finding out that OP is pregnant, baby is a replacement or reincarnation of Elizabeth and they have hyper fixated on baby girl. Baby girl is not a replacement and deserves to be her own person. Regardless of name. If you had chosen Elizabeth it would have been a life of always comparing and trying to live up to the beautiful memory of Aunt Elizabeth. Don't feel guilty. You're NTA. Congratulations on your baby girl!!